The Novel and Manga of Haruhi Suzumiya

[wtflux]

yeah, ascaloth, i have a lot of trouble with doing that(both keeping it simple and not being stupid). although, i wouldn't call it a just a personal gripe with the story rather than an objective analysis of the situation(some people simply don't care because they aren't reading the story for the element i'm describing, even though it exists prominently, or maybe their standards are lower than mine). if you don't have a problem with the pacing it's probably because you don't care about it, since the pacing has been almost nonexistent since volume 1.

considering the story's audience, comparing it to great writing is unfair, so i suppose it fits its niche. i just enjoy doing it because it sort of helps me define what a quality story is, and i think it'd be nice if tanigawa would step it up. it i'm not really expecting it, but better quality can never hurt, right?

anyways, i'm going to translate a small portion(2-3 pages) of a dialogue between koizumi and kyon, talking about haruhi, sasaki, and closed spaces. i'll probably edit it into here.

[Ascaloth]

yeah, ascaloth, i have a lot of trouble with doing that(both keeping it simple and not being stupid). although, i wouldn't call it a just a personal gripe with the story rather than an objective analysis of the situation(some people simply don't care because they aren't reading the story for the element i'm describing, even though it exists prominently, or maybe their standards are lower than mine).

considering the story's audience, comparing it to great writing is unfair, so i suppose it fits its niche. i just enjoy doing it because it sort of helps me define what a quality story is, and i think it'd be nice if tanigawa would step it up. it i'm not really expecting it, but better quality can never hurt, right?

anyways, i'm going to translate a small portion(2-3 pages) of a dialogue between koizumi and kyon, talking about haruhi, sasaki, and closed spaces. i'll probably edit it into here.

...now you're the one who's looking down on other people. Not only that, you're imposing arbitary standards on what makes a "good" story. And lastly, you're taking on a "I'm-right-because-I-say-so" attitude.

To quote Jason Miao from AoMM, "Bad times. Bad times."

Jeez. Can we just cut everything here before it blows up? Just state this is your personal opinion, and leave it at that.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Just to interrupt the discussion...

Do any of you think perhaps the contents of book 9 might not be able to be fully appreciated until it is read along with book 10?

After all, I don't think book 9 ended on a cliff-hanger for the fun of it; The author must have been unable to fit both books into one volume, and that's why book 10 is to be release very soon afterwards.

It's just an idea, of course.

[wtflux]

"Jeez. Can we just cut everything here before it blows up? Just state this is your personal opinion, and leave it at that."

I'll admit that I can't get across to you what I am thinking, so it doesn't matter either way(it's my fault, not yours). Even if we can't come to a mutual understanding, I'd rather leave it at that than complicate things further through miscommunication(not to mention clogging up the board). I have an unfortunate talent for turning a very simple issue into a complex one.

The only thing I'd like to add is that I didn't mean 'people may have lower standards' as an insult to anyone; all I meant is that I'm hard to satisfy, it's just a character difference as far as I'm concerned. Apologies if it came out wrong.

just to try to ensure this doesn't continue, this is what i have so far:

EDIT: Volume 9 excerpt, pages 80-82. Just added more at 8:34 board time, and may add more later, but this is what I wanted to get done for now(no more coming soon):

NOTE: Points I have determined need a translator's notes are marked with an asterisk(*), and notes are placed in brackets [as such] at the bottom of the text. The conversation starts with Koizumi after they had been comparing their points of view on a Brigade activity they did earlier.



"Is that what you remembered?"

"It seems there're no major difference."

Koizumi said while surveying the monitor in earnest,

"From an objective viewpoint, it was as you have described in your commentary. However, if we look at this from a subjective viewpoint, your explanation and my explanation bring forth considerable inconsistencies."

He moved those surveying eyes onto me. Those eyes bother me.

"Well, this is the problem. Awhile ago, I told you that recently the frequency of the appearance of Closed Spaces has been increasing. To be accurate, the number hasn't had equal before or after Suzumiya entered high school. From the last year to this year, my the number of my part-time-job's missions, which had been on a declining trend, began to return to normal immediately after the end of Spring Break. Why would that be?"

I demanded nervously,

"What is it that you want to say?"

"It's not that I want to say it, I need to*. To come to a mutual understanding through a silent exchange would be better, but that's not possible.
It's related to cause and effect. In this case, the cause part consists of something that happened on the final day of Spring Break. The terms "Closed Space" and "Shinjin" would be inscribed under effects. Well then, what does this mean? This is the question I would pose to you."

"..."

I wrapped myself in silence ala Nagato. My head felt like it was in bits and pieces.

Koizumi, whose face revealed about as much as a primitive mask dug up from the Joumon era, made a smile with an incomprehensible meaning and said,

"From the fact that Suzumiya started a surge in the creation of closed spaces around the same time the new semester started, we can declare that the problematic point started on the final day of Spring Break. If we think about what happened that day, we just did the usual SOS brigade activities and there were no special happenings. The only that -was- different from usual, was one a unique, irregular element that came to interfere with the Freemarket**. What was that? You should already understand."

Sasaki?

"But why? All I did was come to the usual meeting place with a classmate from middle school. How does that turn into the effector of a mental stress on Haruhi?"

Koizumi opened his mouth as if in surprise, stared at me with those surveying and now also amazed eyes, almost like when my sister saw the locust sheddings Shamisen picked up for the first time, and stayed that way for a full ten seconds.

Facing me(who had started thinking that I'd better hurry up and wave my hand in front of his face), the psychic(ESPer) Modoki*** put on a face that was harmless to both man and beast, heartily swiveled his neck like an actor, and began:


"If you ask why..."

Making exaggerated gestures while facing me,

"About the Sasaki who styles herself as your best friend, could the reason that 8 out of 10 people find their eyes attracted to her at a glance is in truth because she is a charmingly beautiful -y-o-u-n-g- -w-o-m-a-n-?"****

He said this with the voice of a cold retainer who was announcing a decision to cancel the death sentence of a foolish ruler*****.



*: [This is a very strange idiomatic-seeming sentence in the original text, but I think what I've written gets across what Koizumi said].

**: [The Freemarket Koizumi speaks of is pretty much like a garage sale market, an activity they all went and did earlier that week/day(i dont know which, it was described right before this conversation)]

***: [Don't ask me what Modoki means, I couldn't figure that out--do tell if you know]

****: [The hyphens between words are just used to signify that Koizumi stresses that point vocally.]

*****: [i was unable to find a translation for 'shigyaku', and since "gyaku" means to turn around a situation and "shi" means murder/kill/etc. I imagine this means either overruling a death sentence or murder with the purpose of overthrowing. given that koizumi is announcing the old conflict of haruhi's jealousy which hasn't come up in awhile, i'm chose the former translation.]


and yes, since both of volume 9's endings end on a cliffhanger i -hope- volume 10 will build on what volume 9 did. after all, i don't think tanigawa has ever ended a volume on a cliffhanger before.

EDIT: added the substance of text that i actually WANTED to translate at 8:34, no more coming soon. koizumi's reaction to kyon's question at the end is GREAT =) it's like he is so shocked that kyon could be so ignorant. probably pisses him off to no end if he actually has feelings for haruhi like he does in the alternate universe--but oh, i forgot, he's gay, :rolleyes: right?

hmm, wonder if he is homosexual in the real world and yuki made him straight in the other world in an attempt to get haruhi away from kyon =p

[PastPrime]

i can't really answer those, as I'm not sure of them yet.

i can give some roundabout answers though:

i'm not sure if sasaki had powers to begin with. i believe she does. my statement that they believe she is the godlike being is pretty much a direct quote, however(the person(tachibana) literally says they think that sasaki, NOT haruhi, is the godlike existence), so chances are either she already does have them or she is a person who is capable of receiving them(vol4 nagato style). sasaki, however, is not ignorant of the 'alternate brigade's' purpose.

i have not heard of a slider yet, and i am of the opinion that it is probably just a misunderstanding and no slider exists in volume 9.

i believe everyone but Haruhi knows of their existence. at the very least, Kyon does, and Koizumi knows about sasaki, so I presume that the other brigade members know what's up, although they may not know that the other brigade is trying to get Kyon to cooperate with them.

Perhaps, given the ESPers fangirly reaction before, they think that Haruhi's powers really originate from Kyon, so if they get him to move to their group the powers will move to Sasaki.

[Ascaloth]

Perhaps, given the ESPers fangirly reaction before, they think that Haruhi's powers really originate from Kyon, so if they get him to move to their group the powers will move to Sasaki.

That actually makes a lot of sense, come to think of it.

I mean, my memory may be faulty as heck, but when was the time loli-Haruhi met "John Smith"?

Three years ago.

When did the IDSE observe the explosion of data, the time travellers observe the time-rift, and the ESPers realize their newborn existence?

Three years ago.


Now, let's come to the present. Specifically, let's go all the way to Volume 1. And to be more specific, let's go to Chapter 3, where Yuki explains her version of the whole story to Kyon for the first time;

"I have been doing this since I was born three years ago. In the last three years, no particularly unusual elements were discovered, and things were very stable. However, recently an external factor has now appeared beside Suzumiya Haruhi that cannot be ignored."

"And that is you."

Hmmm.

Now, let's go on to Volume 4, and hear Mikuru's side of the story;

"Three years ago we detected the occurrence of a huge time-quake. Hmm, it should be around three years before today, just when Suzumiya-san entered junior high. We were shocked when we traveled back to investigate, because we were unable to travel any further into the past."

"We came to a conclusion that there exists a massive temporal fault line, but we don't know why it only appears at that specific time frame. It's only recently that we discovered the reason...sorry, I meant recently for the age that I came from."

[...]

"You don't believe me, do you?"

"No...right, so why are you telling me this?"

"Because you have been chosen by Suzumiya-san."

Asahina turned and faced me,

"I can't go into the details. But, if I've guessed correctly, you are a very important person to Suzumiya-san. There is a reason for everything that she does."

Hmmmmmmmm.

Finally, let's see what Itsuki has to say;

"Since she hasn't discovered them yet, she is unable to completely utilize her powers, she could only subconsciously release them randomly. Yet for the past few months, Suzumiya-san has continuously released powers far beyond what humans can comprehend. As you well know, this resulted in Suzumiya-san having Asahina Mikuru, Nagato Yuki and even me joining her club."

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Now, from the looks of it, it seems like for the past three years, Haruhi's powers hasn't exactly manifested itself very much in any way.....until recently. Or, to take Koizumi's words, "for the past few months". And when was the point of time Volume 1 takes place in?

Around several months after the start of the new semester for North High. In other words, Haruhi's powers only exhibited increased activity when she met "John Smith" (Kyon) again.

...Yeeeeeeeeeeesh. And here I was thinking that Kyon was merely the catalyst for Haruhi's powers......so now we're looking at the possibility that Haruhi isn't unique after all, that there may be other girls around like her who can act as the focus lens for world-changing power.....and that Kyon is actually the source of all that power?

In other words, Kyon NEEDS a special bond with special girls like Haruhi or Sasaki to activate his powers, huh?

Of course, this is just a theory of mine, but it makes a creepy kind of sense......gee, won't the Kyonists be jumping with glee at this one....

[John.S]

uh ... another questions.
what is this "alpha & beta" section ? I've heard bout different ending for both section. is this some kind story about parallel universe or alternate dimension or something like that ? dooohhhh :confused:

[quigonkenny]

That actually makes a lot of sense, come to think of it.

I mean, my memory may be faulty as heck, but when was the time loli-Haruhi met "John Smith"?

Three years ago.

When did the IDSE observe the explosion of data, the time travellers observe the time-rift, and the ESPers realize their newborn existence?

Three years ago.


Now, let's come to the present. Specifically, let's go all the way to Volume 1. And to be more specific, let's go to Chapter 3, where Yuki explains her version of the whole story to Kyon for the first time;



Hmmm.

Now, let's go on to Volume 4, and hear Mikuru's side of the story;



Hmmmmmmmm.

Finally, let's see what Itsuki has to say;



Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Now, from the looks of it, it seems like for the past three years, Haruhi's powers hasn't exactly manifested itself very much in any way.....until recently. Or, to take Koizumi's words, "for the past few months". And when was the point of time Volume 1 takes place in?

Around several months after the start of the new semester for North High. In other words, Haruhi's powers only exhibited increased activity when she met "John Smith" (Kyon) again.

...Yeeeeeeeeeeesh. And here I was thinking that Kyon was merely the catalyst for Haruhi's powers......so now we're looking at the possibility that Haruhi isn't unique after all, that there may be other girls around like her who can act as the focus lens for world-changing power.....and that Kyon is actually the source of all that power?

In other words, Kyon NEEDS a special bond with special girls like Haruhi or Sasaki to activate his powers, huh?

Of course, this is just a theory of mine, but it makes a creepy kind of sense......gee, won't the Kyonists be jumping with glee at this one....
Kyon is a catalyst, or rather, he's—I can't remember the chemical term—he's a different kind of reactant. He doesn't allow the reaction to take place, as it would anyway, but he allows it to be focused, or dissipated, instead of it carrying on randomly as it was before. Heck, maybe that is a "catalyst," as I haven't studied chemistry in 15 years. What I'm saying is he's not the source of the powers. The idea that he caused the "explosion of data" or "timequake" (depending on your point of view) when he went back in time as John Smith has been debunked in a number of forums, due to the simple fact that if that was the point that it all happened, he wouldn't have been able to go back to a few minutes before then (which he and Mikuru did), as the time travelers are unable to do so. The fact that he is important to both "goddesses" so far can't be ignored, however, and neither can the effect he has on them and their generation of closed space. Although I do think it's simply that they are in love with him (like with any good harem lead) and that obviously affects their actions.
. . .

I'll admit that I can't get across to you what I am thinking, so it doesn't matter either way(it's my fault, not yours). Even if we can't come to a mutual understanding, I'd rather leave it at that than complicate things further through miscommunication(not to mention clogging up the board). I have an unfortunate talent for turning a very simple issue into a complex one.

. . .

EDIT: added the substance of text that i actually WANTED to translate at 8:34, no more coming soon. koizumi's reaction to kyon's question at the end is GREAT =) it's like he is so shocked that kyon could be so ignorant. probably pisses him off to no end if he actually has feelings for haruhi like he does in the alternate universe--but oh, i forgot, he's gay, :rolleyes: right?

hmm, wonder if he is homosexual in the real world and yuki made him straight in the other world in an attempt to get haruhi away from kyon =p
It's pretty obvious what you are thinking, as you were able to get that across with your first post. You would like the series to, if not focus more on it, at least give some development to the "Haruhi x Kyon" and the "Haruhi's Powers" threads of the story, which I freely admit hasn't been advanced much, if at all, since the beginning of the series. The problem is that most of us either don't agree (maybe we have a broader definition of what pertains to "Haruhi's Powers," for example, or are satisfied with the slow pace to their romance) or don't care (I, for one, prefer the intricate worldbuilding the author has done to the possibility of it all degenerating into a generic love story). If anyone does agree, please come forth, as I can't be wrong about my opinions, but I'll freely admit if I've assumed incorrectly about the general opinions of the audience.

And as for Itsuki being gay, that's really more a fan joke than anything. He's certainly a close talker, and the idea that he might be bi is plausible (Snow Mountain Syndrome), but it's been at least hinted at a few times that he's attracted to Haruhi in this dimension as well (although maybe dere-Yuki enhanced that a bit in the dere-verse for the reason you give) and he has remarked on Mikuru's and Haruhi's attractiveness a number of times.

[Mirrinus]

On a completely unrelated note, I'm kinda surprised at just how many people on this forum read Jason's AoMM blog...

[wtflux]

kyon being some sort of key to power doesn't seem out of the question.

after all, at the very beginning of the series, after he first talked to haruhi, he said "this would be the trigger," right? although presumably, the real trigger was three years ago, we can't know what he really meant, or even if he considers the events three years ago to have happened 'before' that, if you know what i mean(although im sure he does).


i have a different theory though. the symbol haruhi had painted on the ground seems like it can be read by the IDSE and other information-related entities. it seems probable to me that what gives haruhi her powers is actually a special information-virus-thing like the one encountered in Wandering Shadow, which may have seen the symbol on Earth, answered her call by coming and attaching itself to whatever wrote it(or maybe it was simply drawn to the sign). This 'spirit' would be the source of her power. This could also explain the fact that her powers can be transferred. This may be a pretty wild theory to some of you, but hey, it explains the connection between the symbol and the fact that her powers are transferable and I don't see anything that prohibits its truth. The fact that Yuki took her powers also gives support to the theory, I think, since she's demonstrated in Wandering Shadow that she can transfer the 'spirits' from one thing to another.

vol9 ending spoiler
If Suou is the one who transfers Haruhi's powers to Sasaki, that would pretty much confirm this point for me.

[Sheba]

On a completely unrelated note, I'm kinda surprised at just how many people on this forum read Jason's AoMM blog...
It is the first anime blog I've read, and one of the most hilarious.

[potluck]

i have a different theory though. the symbol haruhi had painted on the ground seems like it can be read by the IDSE and other information-related entities. it seems probable to me that what gives haruhi her powers is actually a special information-virus-thing like the one encountered in Wandering Shadow, which may have seen the symbol on Earth, answered her call by coming and attaching itself to whatever wrote it(or maybe it was simply drawn to the sign).I don't know about that. Kyon traveled back in the past before Haruhi drew that symbol. Doesn't that mean that the "data explosion" etc. occurred before she drew the symbol, and therefore, Haruhi had her powers before then?

[wtflux]

"I don't know about that. Kyon traveled back in the past before Haruhi drew that symbol. Doesn't that mean that the "data explosion" etc. occurred before she drew the symbol, and therefore, Haruhi had her powers before then?"

well, if it's a 'pre-determined event', that means his traveling in the past may either not have actually been caused by the attachment of the spirit(he just helped her do it; the time travelers made him, not haruhi).

time really is not linear in haruhi, so until tanigawa tells us how it actually all worked, we won't know. mikuru et al are organizing events in the past so that their future can exist. when they say 'pre-determined event', they mean that the events that occur do not cause a time paradox because they all were determined beforehand somehow, i.e. when the reality was created. haruhi's powers may transcend time, since she has the power to create new realities(or maybe she only has the power to change the present and morph the current reality, i don't know). i'd explain more but i have to go to school now =/

i guess the best way to put it is, maybe haruhi created the time block by affecting the recent past after she acquired her powers, and the data explosion either didnt cause the time block or she caused it to occur in the past. an example would be as koizumi suggested, after her initial acquistion of her powers with kyon's help, she created a new world that was more interesting for herself(but still believable, to her) which began before the point in time kyon traveled back to(although i find that version unlikely).

but even if my theory isn't completely right i'm pretty sure that the 'spirits' have some kind of connection to haruhi and her powers, even if they aren't the true source of it. if i wanted to go out on a limb i'd say that tanigawa is trying to make it so that the god/goddess of tanabata is actually one of those spirits and attached itself to haruhi =p

wild, i guess, but the theory's fun to think about.

[TigerII]

I am waiting for the big event. Everyone keeps telling Kyon he will know eventually. My guess is something monsterous will happen before this series ends.

[CrowKenobi]

I am waiting for the big event. Everyone keeps telling Kyon he will know eventually. My guess is something monsterous will happen before this series ends.I don't believe anything monstrous will happen. All that will happen is that Kyon finally gets a clue about Haruhi's feelings towards him and does something about it. :D

:cool:

[Sean Gaffney]

I don't believe anything monstrous will happen. All that will happen is that Kyon finally gets a clue about Haruhi's feelings towards him and does something about it. :D

:cool:

I think Kyon subconsciously knows already, he's just not letting himself know consciously.

[Forgetful_Duck]

Yeh no joke, he's already kissed her anyway in volume 1

[Ascaloth]

Kyon is a catalyst, or rather, he's—I can't remember the chemical term—he's a different kind of reactant. He doesn't allow the reaction to take place, as it would anyway, but he allows it to be focused, or dissipated, instead of it carrying on randomly as it was before. Heck, maybe that is a "catalyst," as I haven't studied chemistry in 15 years. What I'm saying is he's not the source of the powers. The idea that he caused the "explosion of data" or "timequake" (depending on your point of view) when he went back in time as John Smith has been debunked in a number of forums, due to the simple fact that if that was the point that it all happened, he wouldn't have been able to go back to a few minutes before then (which he and Mikuru did), as the time travelers are unable to do so. The fact that he is important to both "goddesses" so far can't be ignored, however, and neither can the effect he has on them and their generation of closed space. Although I do think it's simply that they are in love with him (like with any good harem lead) and that obviously affects their actions.


Okay, fair enough. So let's reverse my theory; Haruhi isn't unique, as is proven by the existence of Sasaki. Which would mean that in this world, there is more than one "source of power", and Haruhi and Sasaki are just two of them. However, Kyon is the "focus lens" that allows that power to manifest itself in this world, by altering reality.

How does this one sound?

On a completely unrelated note, I'm kinda surprised at just how many people on this forum read Jason's AoMM blog...

I'll have to admit, I only started reading anime blogs when I was following Kanon. Even so though, AoMM stood out for me for its particular brand of humor; it's witty and hilarious, does great parodies like there's no tomorrow, and yet Jason knows how to NOT take himself too seriously. I really like that kind of humor when it's done right, and Jason does it right, 'nuff said.

Which is a heck of a lot more than I can say for certain other blogs, Karura's Azure Flame being a prime example; she also does parodies, but her cynicism just shows through everything she tried to write, and she tries too hard to take herself seriously. And it only makes for tasteless, even vulgar content in the end. Heck, I only frequented it until recently because it's the only anime blog in the anime blogosphere that DanielSong39 frequents, and as some of us here know that DanielSong39 is on my 'stalker' list...

kyon being some sort of key to power doesn't seem out of the question.

after all, at the very beginning of the series, after he first talked to haruhi, he said "this would be the trigger," right? although presumably, the real trigger was three years ago, we can't know what he really meant, or even if he considers the events three years ago to have happened 'before' that, if you know what i mean(although im sure he does).


i have a different theory though. the symbol haruhi had painted on the ground seems like it can be read by the IDSE and other information-related entities. it seems probable to me that what gives haruhi her powers is actually a special information-virus-thing like the one encountered in Wandering Shadow, which may have seen the symbol on Earth, answered her call by coming and attaching itself to whatever wrote it(or maybe it was simply drawn to the sign). This 'spirit' would be the source of her power. This could also explain the fact that her powers can be transferred. This may be a pretty wild theory to some of you, but hey, it explains the connection between the symbol and the fact that her powers are transferable and I don't see anything that prohibits its truth. The fact that Yuki took her powers also gives support to the theory, I think, since she's demonstrated in Wandering Shadow that she can transfer the 'spirits' from one thing to another.

vol9 ending spoiler
If Suou is the one who transfers Haruhi's powers to Sasaki, that would pretty much confirm this point for me.

Hmmm, I also see what you mean. And I think we can mesh both our theories together; maybe this 'spirit' is drawn to Earth by Haruhi, but then actively seeks a 'source of power' or a 'focus lens', depending on which theory you place your bets on......and it happens to be Kyon?

Don't know if I'm making sense here, but I tried my best.

[Anaglyph]

If anyone does agree, please come forth, as I can't be wrong about my opinions, but I'll freely admit if I've assumed incorrectly about the general opinions of the audience.

Well, I agree with wtflux, for whatever that's worth.

The first book sets up certain expectations of what's to come that have so far not been followed through in any significant way. It's all been setup with very little progress in the plot.

I know next to nothing about how the series came to be written or how it's published, so this is all speculation, but I get the feeling that Tanigawa didn't have any expectation of this turning into a popular series and that he wrote the first book as if it was a stand-alone novel. In other words I think he's winging it and it's starting to show (actually it started to show a few volumes back).

None of which is to say I'm not enjoying the series because I find it great fun. But I would enjoy it more if the overarching plot started moving forward instead of having hints about it dropped here and there without any actual progress.

[X207]

anyone know how fast baka-tsuki is at translating the 9th volume? ie given its lenght wats a rough estimate

[wtflux]

well, the progress is virtually 0 as of now(except for the tidbit of prologue that has been translated, and what i have translated and posted myself(see earlier posts, i think there are one or two excerpts)). but i imagine people are just taking their time reading the book and translation will pick up after they're done.

i'd have translated a bunch myself but i'm busy with college atm =/ which is kind of annoying, because i think translating haruhi is much better learning/practice than actually doing the homework(japanese is relatively easy for me) in addition to being more interesting.

a rough estimate? i'm not sure how fast the other translators are, but i'd say it could easily be completed by july if they're around my level(they're probably better). that would give us 3 months i think? probably wouldn't take that long, since it's summer. i'll be working on it a lot after my classes end(which is soon), at least =p

[X207]

O.O a few months, yike ill give tham 2 weeks or judge it if more ppl estimate a quicker time

[wtflux]

that was a maximum estimate, so it was generous, if i were to give a real estimate i'd probably choose late may-mid june. but if most translators have classes like me, right now's a busy time of the year, with finals/major projects coming up and such.

holycow/kinny or someone else who's been on the project for awhile would probably have a better idea.

[quigonkenny]

I know next to nothing about how the series came to be written or how it's published, so this is all speculation, but I get the feeling that Tanigawa didn't have any expectation of this turning into a popular series and that he wrote the first book as if it was a stand-alone novel. In other words I think he's winging it and it's starting to show (actually it started to show a few volumes back).
Frankly, I can't see how anybody who's read Intrigues can think he's "winging it" at this point, but if your primary expectation out of the series is the advancement of the "Haruhi x Kyon" plot and the "WTF Are Haruhi's Powers About" plot, I can understand the disappointment. I still think most people are happy with just a tease here and there.

anyone know how fast baka-tsuki is at translating the 9th volume? ie given its lenght wats a rough estimate
I think seeing 3 months as an outside guess may be a little optimistic. You've all got to remember that the majority of Baka-Tsuki's translators translate from Chinese, and Chinese translations don't exist yet. In fact, I think there's only two, at the moment, that can translate from Japanese. GDsMDDLFNGR and BaKaFiSh. They're both great translators, but I understand it's a pretty long book, and these guys do have lives. I could see 3 months as a minimum, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

If anybody wants to head over and offer some help, there's a thread on the Baka-Tsuki forum (http://www.baka-tsuki.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1028&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) currently running about how many translators they've got (just the two above, so far), and the instructions for registering as a translator is on the main project page (http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi#Translators), toward the bottom, right above the listing of the editors. Ganbatte!

[X207]

Frankly, I can't see how anybody who's read Intrigues can think he's "winging it" at this point, but if your primary expectation out of the series is the advancement of the "Haruhi x Kyon" plot and the "WTF Are Haruhi's Powers About" plot, I can understand the disappointment. I still think most people are happy with just a tease here and there.


I think seeing 3 months as an outside guess may be a little optimistic. You've all got to remember that the majority of Baka-Tsuki's translators translate from Chinese, and Chinese translations don't exist yet. In fact, I think there's only two, at the moment, that can translate from Japanese. GDsMDDLFNGR and BaKaFiSh. They're both great translators, but I understand it's a pretty long book, and these guys do have lives. I could see 3 months as a minimum, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

If anybody wants to head over and offer some help, there's a thread on the Baka-Tsuki forum (http://www.baka-tsuki.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1028&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) currently running about how many translators they've got (just the two above, so far), and the instructions for registering as a translator is on the main project page (http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi#Translators), toward the bottom, right above the listing of the editors. Ganbatte!

O.O thats alot of pages

"The structure is as follows:

Prologue: 95 pages

Chapter 1: 53 pages

Chapter 2:
"Alpha 1" - 3.25 pages
"Beta 1" - 5.5 pages
"Beta 2" - 5 pages
"Alpha 2" - 3.5 pages
"Beta 3" - 2 pages
"Alpha 3" - 1 page
"Alpha 4" - 0.5 pages
"Beta 4" - 40 pages

Chapter 3:
"Alpha 5" - 15.5 pages
"Beta 5" - 15 pages
"Alpha 6" - 22 pages
"Beta 6" - 21 pages "
(from that very link u posted)

wats with the alpha and beta?

[Anaglyph]

Frankly, I can't see how anybody who's read Intrigues can think he's "winging it" at this point....

That was a poor choice of words. I didn't really want to go into a detailed speculative essay so took the lazy way out. ;)

[wtflux]

"wats with the alpha and beta?"

there are two different endings, an alpha and a beta ending, and he has different alpha and beta chapters to lead up to each one. i'm not sure exactly how it works, but my guesses are:

1. they both actually happen but he chooses not to write them together for some reason, and vol10 will join them or they will, combined, make up the backstory for vol10
2. it's one of those choose-your-own-ending things, and both are considered 'real endings', which could mean multiple things for vol10
3. it's a 'choose-your-own-ending,' but only one is the real ending, which he will continue in vol 10

personally, im hoping for either 1 or 3(preferably 1). open-ended endings(not related to this) and 'choose-your-own-ending' things are definitely not my ending types of choice.

[X207]

"wats with the alpha and beta?"

there are two different endings, an alpha and a beta ending, and he has different alpha and beta chapters to lead up to each one. i'm not sure exactly how it works, but my guesses are:

1. they both actually happen but he chooses not to write them together for some reason, and vol10 will join them or they will, combined, make up the backstory for vol10
2. it's one of those choose-your-own-ending things, and both are considered 'real endings', which could mean multiple things for vol10
3. it's a 'choose-your-own-ending,' but only one is the real ending, which he will continue in vol 10

personally, im hoping for either 1 or 3(preferably 1). open-ended endings(not related to this) and 'choose-your-own-ending' things are definitely not my ending types of choice.


so ultimately the translated vol 1-8 is picking and chosing alpha or beta?
wow this can get confuzling

so if he choses 1 , wat will happen to the other variation of the chapter?

[nadare]

btw who are those 3 girls who appeared in the illustration?

[X207]

btw who are those 3 girls who appeared in the illustration?

maybe they're evil/alternate versions. for we know that SB dude isnt on kyon's side so maybe those 3 would somehow be allied

just by appearance, my best guess would be alien-pink sweather brown/yellow shirt time traveler, dark haired girl suzmiya equivalent

[wtflux]

im pretty sure this and other info have been posted before, but in the illustration with the 3 girls...

girl on the left is tachibana kyouko, ESPer.
middle is suou somethingorother, human interface.
right is sasaki, haruhi's 'competition.'
sneering bastard(not in the picture) is fujiwara, the time traveler.

they are all members of various rival factions.

[CrowKenobi]

im pretty sure this and other info have been posted before, but in the illustration with the 3 girls...

girl on the left is tachibana kyouko, ESPer.
middle is suou somethingorother, human interface.
right is sasaki, haruhi's 'competition.'
sneering bastard(not in the picture) is fujiwara, the time traveler.

they are all members of various rival factions.In fact, they've been posted here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=886344&postcount=239) and here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=888250&postcount=4674). :D

[LumpOfCole]

It would be funny if Haruhi found out about the alternate brigade by discovering the nature of their being time traveler, alien, and ESPer.

[FatPianoBoy]

It would be funny if Haruhi found out about the alternate brigade by discovering the nature of their being time traveler, alien, and ESPer.

She didn't believe Kyon when he told her about Mikuru, Yuki and Itsuki, so I kinda doubt she'd believe the claims of some strangers about that kind of thing.
If they decided to prove it to her, though, that'd be a whole different bucket of fish.

[X207]

yup after that ep where kyon and haruhi are in a closed space he told her about those three, predicatlbly she though he was pulling a joke on her

[TigerII]

Well just finished novel 7. Poor Kyon, after a few suggestive lines, doesn't look like he gets to live a normal life even after highschool. Which also means that this series could go through many more books.

[PastPrime]

yup after that ep where kyon and haruhi are in a closed space he told her about those three, predicatlbly she though he was pulling a joke on her

Of course, since they have a time traveler they should be able to find out some of what has happened. What would Haruhi think if one of them mentioned that the symbol she drew in middle school ment "I am here, come look for me" in an alien language and then told her that Kyon helped her draw it and then told her that his name was John Smith.

[X207]

well that was john smith, not technically a time travelr she'd look for because he got access to machine thru mikuru

[Kulkillian]

well that was john smith, not technically a time travelr she'd look for because he got access to machine thru mikuru

I'd say anyone who travels through time is technically a time traveler...
and anyone who travels to an alternate reality (even if it is temporary) is technically a "slider". Kyon even fared better than Koizumi in destroying gray space. All Kyon needs to do now is discover his adoption papers.

Actually this novel should be a cause of celebration for Kyonists. It suggests that while Kyon can exist without the SOS Brigade, it can't exist without him. It also suggests that Suzumiya type "gods" are a dime a dozen (or at least as common in Tanigawa's world as data manipulating aliens, ESPers, and time travellers). While the three other members of the SOS Brigade have different alliances (and are suspicious of the organizations to which the other members belong): both Koizumi and Nagato have pledged loyalty to Kyon, and Mikuru is taking orders from her superiors based on Kyon's recommendations.

It's obvious that Kyon's not a god because he's far more important.

[Kinny Riddle]

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31059

The timeline has been updated to include vol 8 as well as the names of two new characters introduced in vol 7 but only first mentioned in vol 9.

[PastPrime]

I'd say anyone who travels through time is technically a time traveler...
and anyone who travels to an alternate reality (even if it is temporary) is technically a "slider". Kyon even fared better than Koizumi in destroying gray space. All Kyon needs to do now is discover his adoption papers.

Actually this novel should be a cause of celebration for Kyonists. It suggests that while Kyon can exist without the SOS Brigade, it can't exist without him. It also suggests that Suzumiya type "gods" are a dime a dozen (or at least as common in Tanigawa's world as data manipulating aliens, ESPers, and time travellers). While the three other members of the SOS Brigade have different alliances (and are suspicious of the organizations to which the other members belong): both Koizumi and Nagato have pledged loyalty to Kyon, and Mikuru is taking orders from her superiors based on Kyon's recommendations.

It's obvious that Kyon's not a god because he's far more important.

Perhaps Kyon, when he wished that ESPers, Time Travelers, Aliens, and Sliders really existed, actually sent the powers to a number of differen't girls who were capable of using them. But Haruhi was the one who became unstable and started using them. And Kyon is the key. In order for them to fully utilize the powers he has to be around.

And I really like the new aliens hair. I wonder what it would look like in ponytails.

[malaujai]

i have a quick question regarding the novels:

i have not started reading them yet, but is the order of the novels (volumes, chapters) in a chronological order, unlike the anime?

[X207]

i have a quick question regarding the novels:

i have not started reading them yet, but is the order of the novels (volumes, chapters) in a chronological order, unlike the anime?

nope they are not chronological, in the end it isnt too confusing

[Mirrinus]

The novels technically aren't in chronological order, but they're a lot less confusing than the anime. If you read the novels in the order they were published, they'll make perfect sense. This is probably because unlike the anime, the novels don't interrupt one story arc with another. They merely switch the story arcs around (like, Endless Eight after Disappearance).

[X207]

The novels technically aren't in chronological order, but they're a lot less confusing than the anime. If you read the novels in the order they were published, they'll make perfect sense. This is probably because unlike the anime, the novels don't interrupt one story arc with another. They merely switch the story arcs around (like, Endless Eight after Disappearance).

yup you hit right on the spot

[TigerII]

Well they are kinda in order but Kyon sometimes tells a story from a few months before the previous.

[dnab]

my take on the vol.9 split endings


The critical point occurred on pg. 155, the beginning of alpha-1 line, when a mysterious and yet to be introduced girl who calls Kyon a senpai, made the call while Kyon was in his bath. As insignificant that call was at that moment, it blocked Sasaki's call which led to profound consequences (Kyon's subsequent meeting with the anti-SOS and them making the case that Sasaki would make a more stable God than Haruhi - possibly leading to the power transferral). Story wise alpha will probably be canon, but beta is more interesting in that we get to know the enemy, and Kyon is presented with another choice, much like in vol.4.

So who is this mysterious girl? An aforementioned slider? Another time traveler? A new underclass member to SOS? New enemy? Someone from the N-th SOS Brigade? In Vol.10 will alpha and beta somehow merge into a single story line, or will some time traveling take place from end-beta to begin-alpha? Will we find out what happened at t=0 (i.e. 3~4 years ago)? There's a saying .......


vol.10 Otanoshimi

[myopius]

Hmm... from reading the one spoiler tag of wtflux's and verifying that person's identity with KR's timeline, I'm very disappointed that
The character design for the "kidnapper lady" is so... dopey. Sorry, I just can't look at that girl and think of her as the "girl in red" who seemed a bit sinister and sort of flirted with Kyon in volume 8. I'm totally reminded of all the annoyingly possessive imouto or imouto-like characters I've seen in anime who try to act cute but just end up being selfish and disruptive, though I know there's no way Tanigawa would make a character like that... so I hope there's more uncolored illustrations around which show her without the wide open-mouth smile, or with her eyes narrowed maybe. Yep...

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Hmm... from reading the one spoiler tag of wtflux's and verifying that person's identity with KR's timeline, I'm very disappointed that
The character design for the "kidnapper lady" is so... dopey. Sorry, I just can't look at that girl and think of her as the "girl in red" who seemed a bit sinister and sort of flirted with Kyon in volume 8. I'm totally reminded of all the annoyingly possessive imouto or imouto-like characters I've seen in anime who try to act cute but just end up being selfish and disruptive, though I know there's no way Tanigawa would make a character like that... so I hope there's more uncolored illustrations around which show her without the wide open-mouth smile, or with her eyes narrowed maybe. Yep...

Do remember, she is an Esper just like Itsuki.
And what do we know about Itsuki? A smiling yes-man who goes with the flow and has no opinions of his own, or isn't he?

The Espers are a devious lot who never ever show their true selves. The girl should be no exception.

[Kulkillian]

my take on the vol.9 split endings

So who is this mysterious girl?


The critical point occurred on pg. 155, the beginning of alpha-1 line, when a mysterious and yet to be introduced girl who calls Kyon a senpai, made the call while Kyon was in his bath. As insignificant that call was at that moment, it blocked Sasaki's call which led to profound consequences (Kyon's subsequent meeting with the anti-SOS and them making the case that Sasaki would make a more stable God than Haruhi - possibly leading to the power transferral). Story wise alpha will probably be canon, but beta is more interesting in that we get to know the enemy, and Kyon is presented with another choice, much like in vol.4.

So who is this mysterious girl? An aforementioned slider? Another time traveler? A new underclass member to SOS? New enemy? Someone from the N-th SOS Brigade? In Vol.10 will alpha and beta somehow merge into a single story line, or will some time traveling take place from end-beta to begin-alpha? Will we find out what happened at t=0 (i.e. 3~4 years ago)? There's a saying .......


vol.10 Otanoshimi

From what you've described, my guess is that the mysterious girl is Yoshimura Miyoko.

The big question on my mind is: Is Kyon aware of both storylines?

[ellifeedn]

Because it's a new school year, will what was once 3 years ago in the story be replaced with 4 years ago?

[dnab]

From what you've described, my guess is that the mysterious girl is Yoshimura Miyoko.

The big question on my mind is: Is Kyon aware of both storylines?

Kyon could not recognize the mystery girl's voice, so while Miyokichi is a remote possibility (as her voice matures) it's more likely to be someone new. Maybe.

As of vol.9 Kyon is not aware of the plot divergence - at the end(s) of vol.9 we have Nagato sick, i.e. under attack, and the exact situation(s) unrevealed.

[ricerocket]

Perhaps Kyon, when he wished that ESPers, Time Travelers, Aliens, and Sliders really existed, actually sent the powers to a number of differen't girls who were capable of using them. But Haruhi was the one who became unstable and started using them. And Kyon is the key. In order for them to fully utilize the powers he has to be around.

And I really like the new aliens hair. I wonder what it would look like in ponytails.

one impression i'm getting more and more in the novels is that everything is not centered around haruhi, but around kyon

what if haruhi is not actually the god or the creator, but kyon is? i mean even though haruhi is supposedly the one who wished for all the "unusual characters," she doesn't actually get them because she doesn't realize they are around her... whereas kyon also wished since a little kid to be in the unusual situations and he definately gets his wish

would explain why he has no name in the novel :D

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

would explain why he has no name in the novel :D

The script of the novel made it clear that Kyon's name does exist. It's just hidden from the reader.

However, the author admitted in a recent interview that even he himself don't know what is Kyon's real name yet.

[Sushi-Y]

However, the author admitted in a recent interview that even he himself don't know what is Kyon's real name yet.
Are you referring to the interview in the official fanbook? That was quite a while ago and Tanigawa-sensei was already at the stage of "deciding on a name". Also, he mentioned that while Kyon's real name will not be a "revealed at the final moment" kind of thing, his real name will be revealed before the end of the novel. It does not appear that it will be critical to the ending though.

Now, due to final exams, I didn't have time to finish vol.9 until now. Too late to join the discussions. Oh well. :heh:

(Haruhi + Common Sense) = Sasaki-san.
Oh, and the whole Tengai Ryouiki Suou Kuyou thing just reminds me of Shana. :heh:

[ricerocket]

The script of the novel made it clear that Kyon's name does exist. It's just hidden from the reader.

However, the author admitted in a recent interview that even he himself don't know what is Kyon's real name yet.

yah i know, but i'm referring to the whole concept of kyon not having a name: maybe he made up the whole thing like a dream, and you know how in dreams you are not sure who you are and stuff

[TigerII]

If this all turns out to be a dream, it is gonna suck.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

yah i know, but i'm referring to the whole concept of kyon not having a name: maybe he made up the whole thing like a dream, and you know how in dreams you are not sure who you are and stuff

The "it's all a dream" scenario will start riots. We can safely leave that method of storytelling for bad fanfics. It's okay for short stories, but it is considered a cop out for a serial novel to end like that.:heh:

[ricerocket]

lol, i i didn't mean it literally has to be a dream, but i sorta see that kyon's own identity being hazy to signify how important he is in the story, and therefore without his own realization (just as haruhi is without knowledge of her own power) that everything is a creation of kyon's will, and that he is the real creator, and haruhi's powers is just another of his creation much like yuki being an alien etc

remember at the very start he said that he wouldn't expect an alien to just walk up to him and say "hi, how do you do, i'm an alien" and that he doesn't really wanna be the main character of that fantasy world he wishes to be in, but a minor character, like an assistant of the main hero? that is exactly how the haruhi universe is turning out to be, that he is a minor character (supposedly) comparing to haruhi, and the fact that haruhi is who she is creates the excuse for aliens, time travelers, and espers to walk up to him to introduce themselves

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

lol, i i didn't mean it literally has to be a dream, but i sorta see that kyon's own identity being hazy to signify how important he is in the story, and therefore without his own realization (just as haruhi is without knowledge of her own power) that everything is a creation of kyon's will, and that he is the real creator, and haruhi's powers is just another of his creation much like yuki being an alien etc

remember at the very start he said that he wouldn't expect an alien to just walk up to him and say "hi, how do you do, i'm an alien" and that he doesn't really wanna be the main character of that fantasy world he wishes to be in, but a minor character, like an assistant of the main hero? that is exactly how the haruhi universe is turning out to be, that he is a minor character (supposedly) comparing to haruhi, and the fact that haruhi is who she is creates the excuse for aliens, time travelers, and espers to walk up to him to introduce themselves

I understand that Kyonists are growing in their ranks as the series goes on, but I will probably never agree with the principle.
I like Kyon because he is a powerless mortal, who none the less accomplished much with what he can do. Making him a god will just disappoint me, because that means I can no longer relate to Kyon.

I know there are several arguments about how Kyon can be god, but none of them show that he is. Indeed, Tsuruya is as much a god candidate as Kyon, and perhaps even more so since she stated her desire to purely observe.

If Kyon is to be God, then there is no point at all of what he had been through all these books for. It would be no better than an "it's all a dream" ending.

[TigerII]

Still sucks for him, even though he said he did not want to go back to a normal society, but to have your life in danger quite a bit, even though he is a normal human that really has no business in the SOS, because Haruhi has a crush on him. And then even worse for him is his obsession over Mikuru will ultimately lead to his depression as she will have to leave one day.

I really feel sorry for the guy.

[Kulkillian]

one impression i'm getting more and more in the novels is that everything is not centered around haruhi, but around kyon

A different way of looking at it is: Suzumiya may be a god, but Kyon is much more important. Suzumiya is the most powerful member of the SOS Brigade, but Kyon has access to the power of the combined members. Nagato takes her orders directly from Kyon, a number of Asahina's missions have been based on Kyon's suggestions, Koizumi has pledged his loyalty to Kyon, and Suzumiya is the only SOS members who will yield to Kyon's better judgement.

It looks like the new novel is making Suzumiya-class gods about as common as time-travellers, espers, and aliens.

would explain why he has no name in the novel :D
Or that Tanigawa intended the Suzumiya stories to be told from the point of view of a stereotypically minor character. Authors often don't bother to reveal the names of minor characters in manga, and the characters are usually referred to by last name (like Taniguchi), a nickname (like Kyon), or a title (like Imouto).
Tanigawa hints at this in the first novel by giving a nod to Rozenkranz and Guildenstern are Dead (a retelling of Hamlet from the POV of two minor characters).

[dkellis]

I kind of like the telling of the story from the viewpoint of what is technically a minor character. Kyon is unimportant to the story, but certainly important to the narrative, since, well, he's the one dictating it. I have to admit that if Kyon turns out to be some sort of Special-Powered Person (in the conventional sense like the ESPers), I may be a bit disappointed.

Also, being that Kyon is a minor character, and also intellectually incurious, he's probably not likely to care much about the inner workings and mechanics of how everything is connected, unlike Koizumi. So we see the effects of whatever events are happening, but not their causes, at least until Yuki or Koizumi take the time to explain it to Kyon (and thus the reader).

[quigonkenny]

I kind of like the telling of the story from the viewpoint of what is technically a minor character. Kyon is unimportant to the story, but certainly important to the narrative, since, well, he's the one dictating it. I have to admit that if Kyon turns out to be some sort of Special-Powered Person (in the conventional sense like the ESPers), I may be a bit disappointed.

Also, being that Kyon is a minor character, and also intellectually incurious, he's probably not likely to care much about the inner workings and mechanics of how everything is connected, unlike Koizumi. So we see the effects of whatever events are happening, but not their causes, at least until Yuki or Koizumi take the time to explain it to Kyon (and thus the reader).
Kyon a minor character? Unimportant to the story? Not only is he important to the story, he is central to the story. And that's not just my inner Kyonist talking (he doesn't do alot of talking). Everything in the story isn't just witnessed by him, it involves him, often prominently.

I know what you were getting at, but that just wasn't the way to say it. His character type is historically relegated to minor characters, or maybe the comic sidekick, but this series turns that on its ear.

[Kulkillian]

Kyon a minor character? Unimportant to the story? Not only is he important to the story, he is central to the story.


Kyon is definitely important. He has been the person responsible (the "external factor") for both of Haruhi's big "data flares" (The one "three years ago" and the one at the beginning of the first novel.)

Try to imagine the other SOS Brigade members narrarating the stories. Regardless of which SOS Brigade member's POV, Kyon would still be a major player. In Itsuku and Yuki's versions, Haruhi would be little more than a macguffin. I suspect the most interesting portrayals of Haruhi would be from Mikuru or Haruhi herself.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for The Good Life of Haruhi Suzumiya where Haruhi discovers that everyone in the SOS Brigade (except her) is aware of her true powers, becomes angry, sends the original SOS Brigade members into the cornfield, and starts up a new SOS Brigade with Kimidori, Taniguchi, Kunikida, Tsuruya, and the Computer Club President.

[Sean Gaffney]

Anyway, I'm still waiting for The Good Life of Haruhi Suzumiya where Haruhi discovers that everyone in the SOS Brigade (except her) is aware of her true powers, becomes angry, sends the original SOS Brigade members into the cornfield, and starts up a new SOS Brigade with Kimidori, Taniguchi, Kunikida, Tsuruya, and the Computer Club President.

I thought The Good Life Of Haruhi Suzumiya was about Haruhi having the SOS-Dan live off of the land and grow their own food? With Yuki as Margot and special guest appearance by Felicity Kendal as Haruhi's mother?

Oh come on, someone must get that joke... :D

[dkellis]

I know what you were getting at, but that just wasn't the way to say it. His character type is historically relegated to minor characters, or maybe the comic sidekick, but this series turns that on its ear.

Fair enough. I'm not sure whether to reword it to something more accurate to what I mean; on the one hand, obviously it seems to cause confusion as is. On the other hand, what I actually meant is apparently understood...

[Tressflin]

Ah, sorry, I wasn't sure where to post this, but at least this thread has something to do with the books.

I was just wondering what people's suggestions were for watching the anime vs. reading the books first. I'm sure this has been discussed and I was going to read through the thread, but after reading a couple (unwanted) spoilers, I hope people don't mind if I post instead. I know opinions will differ, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

(I was also going to ask about chronological or not, books or anime, but I'll probably end up going with aired/published order since that was how it was released, i.e. intended to be viewed.)

Sorry for the bother and thanks for any replies.

[TigerII]

I watched the anime first and it was an ending that left me wanting more. So after coming here to look for the novels(I knew there was a few), I found them and read them. Way better than show. The books don't skip around like the show did but I believe one book's stories are a few months ahead of a previous month's. It says that in the begining, but does not skip around in time in the books.

[DJ_RockmanX]

I too watched the anime and then proceeded to read the novels. And it was also due the the fact that I couldn't wait for a second season.

I don't know if I can say the anime is not as good as the novels, because KyoAni does a pretty damn good job of adapting what they could in 14 episodes.

As for time skipping, they jump around a bit between volumes initially, like vol. 2 doesn't occur directly after vol. 1, and such. But later volumes have been chronological for the most part.

[X207]

i started with anime then found out about the novel translations

[Kaioshin Sama]

Hey new novel, when did that happen?

Looks like new characters too. One of the shots on Baka-Tsuki has what looks like an older Kyon's Sister, Cousin It from The Addams Family, and some other girl on the right.

After reading the details, Finally the "plot" is moving in A direction. Up until now the series has almost felt like an endless series of wacky antics and "Oh that girl is CUURAZY" observations. This new revelation reminds me of the Seinfeld episode with the "Other Seinfeld Gang" that kept popping up. The funniest part was when they met at the end and just kind of stared at each other in disbelief. Luckily these new characters don't look much like the SOS-Dan regulars though. I am extremely amused by Cousin It (Suou)however. Looks like Tsuruya has been bested.

[-Ajax-]

Any idea why the website is down? At least I haven't been able to log onto it for a while now...

[killeraargh]

Do you mean the Baka-Tsuki website?

If yes, there was a new link, iirc. >.<

http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Main_Page

[-Ajax-]

Do you mean the Baka-Tsuki website?

If yes, there was a new link, iirc. >.<

http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Main_Page

Thar she blows. Thanks a lot. :heh:

[Marina2]

May I ask for little detail in vol.9 ?


I want to ask about "Other" sos-dan.

I already know most detail of them from reading the spoiler but there is the little thing that I want to know more. those thing are.....

1. How is each member of "Other" sos-dan members personality?

2. How do they call each other?
(Ex : how is Kyouko call Sasaki (She call her with "Sasaki" or "Sasaki-san") )

3. How is Kyon call each of them ?

That's all.

P.S. Sorry for my Low Level English writing skill. I'm apologise if you don't understand my question.

[Sushi-Y]

May I ask for little detail in vol.9 ?


I want to ask about "Other" sos-dan.

I already know most detail of them from reading the spoiler but there is the little thing that I want to know more. those thing are.....

1. How is each member of "Other" sos-dan members personality?

2. How do they call each other?
(Ex : how is Kyouko call Sasaki (She call her with "Sasaki" or "Sasaki-san") )

3. How is Kyon call each of them ?

That's all.

P.S. Sorry for my Low Level English writing skill. I'm apologise if you don't understand my question.
1. Sasaki acts and talks like a guy in front of Kyon (or any other male), although Kyon mentioned that she has a feminine side that only comes out when she's with other girls.

Personality wise, she's somewhat similar to Koizumi: logical thinker, but wordy at times. Kind of like the anti-Haruhi, really.

2. Kyouko speaks in a casual but polite language. She refers to everyone with a -san. As for Fujiwara and Suou, I don't think they ever called out to anyone in the group.

3. Kyon never called out to anyone in the group except Sasaki (which is just simply "Sasaki"). Although I'd imagine he'd just use their last names without the honorifics.

Anyway, I bring this
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/3881/ayamariwm6.th.jpg (http://img63.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ayamariwm6.jpg)
(source from here (http://www.kadokawa.co.jp/sp/200603-04/info070514.html))

Looks like we're seeing a delay of the next volume.

[Noppapana]

there is something bothering me in the prologue
Sasaki call the name Kyon, but isnt the nickname Kyon first formed in the highschool ? or did they also call him Kyon in the middle school ?

[FatPianoBoy]

there is something bothering me in the prologue
Sasaki call the name Kyon, but isnt the nickname Kyon first formed in the highschool ? or did they also call him Kyon in the middle school ?

His sister invented it when he was in middle school, I believe.

[moyism]

^ Wait, I thought it was a nickname his grandma gave him that his sister liked so much, that she told everyone else?

[DJ_RockmanX]

By the way, Kyon would be me. My aunt was the one who first called me that. A few years ago, my long-time-no-see aunt suddenly said to me "My goodness, Kyon has grown so big!" My sister thought it was funny and also started to call me Kyon. After that the rest is history— my friends, upon hearing my sister calling me Kyon, decided to follow her lead. From that day on, my nickname became Kyon. Damn it, my sister used to call me "Onii-chan"!

There we go.

[FatPianoBoy]

Edit: Must remember to scroll down to the bottom before replying.

[Darknemo2000]

Manga isnt taht bad really. Its just anime did a great job. besides manga rushed and skipped a few things (specially in the beginning) thats why its not something fans would like.

However, is it just me, or does mangaka really make Haruhi like Kyon more in his manga? At least thats what impression I get afer looking though all 3 volumes of it.

[Kulkillian]

Kyon could not recognize the mystery girl's voice, so while Miyokichi is a remote possibility (as her voice matures) it's more likely to be someone new. Maybe.

I don't think it's someone new. It sounds suspiciously like a member of the SOS Dan.

He recognizes the conversation style (and the reader should too, because she gives enough hints), but her voice doesn't register as someone Kyon has heard before, so he dismisses her from his list of usual suspects

[Jehuty77]

Is There a summary availabe for what happens in Volume 9. I've read mentions of alpha/beta but beyond that i dont really know.

Also has a title or release date been set for Volume 10?

Thanks

[X207]

Is There a summary availabe for what happens in Volume 9. I've read mentions of alpha/beta but beyond that i dont really know.

Also has a title or release date been set for Volume 10?

Thanks

according to the novel transltion site, not yet

[Jehuty77]

What about a good summary of Volume 9?

[X207]

What about a good summary of Volume 9?

dont know, all i know that the particular site has translated about half the book (70% ch1 34% ch3 rest are complete)

[Jehuty77]

Ya I've been following the progress.

I've read Novels 3-8 in the past few weeks. Cant wait to see whats next.

I just hope they start making more progress in the relationship department between Kyon and Haruhi not 2 mention plot progression in general. I have to also say I've always thought there was more to Kyon then one would think.

I like the couple althought its becoming somewhat annoying how they continue to lie or down right ignore their feelings for each other. Its so obvious to the readers and there has many chances to make this relationship progress. It seems like they were ment to hook up like 3 novels ago but the author saw the popularity so decided to string it out longer.

In any case I cant wait to see what happens next. Hope that Novel 10 comes out soon. I'm sure these new girls wont get in the way or replace the SOS Brigade since that would defeat the purpose of everything up to this point.

[X207]

Ya I've been following the progress.

I've read Novels 3-8 in the past few weeks. Cant wait to see whats next.

I just hope they start making more progress in the relationship department between Kyon and Haruhi not 2 mention plot progression in general. I have to also say I've always thought there was more to Kyon then one would think.

I like the couple althought its becoming somewhat annoying how they continue to lie or down right ignore their feelings for each other. Its so obvious to the readers and there has many chances to make this relationship progress. It seems like they were ment to hook up like 3 novels ago but the author saw the popularity so decided to string it out longer.

In any case I cant wait to see what happens next. Hope that Novel 10 comes out soon. I'm sure these new girls wont get in the way or replace the SOS Brigade since that would defeat the purpose of everything up to this point.

well one person does get in haruhi's way. i havent read any spoilers, i just wait for the translation to be completed
lol, chances of haruhi letting one certain person in is quite slim. maybe it'll put the question whether the club still has a purpose into play

[Jehuty77]

your referring to the girl who is like the anti-haruhi?

[X207]

your referring to the girl who is like the anti-haruhi?


ya. im reading watever is completed of ch1 atm

[MrUdon]

umm...does anyone know where i could find the haruhi novel vol9 RAW? ive been looking around now but cant find. Just recently i scraped around my HDD to find the first 8novels lying around. So i read it now i want to read more.

[Alesiopdv]

I just finished reading the 9th novel. Only three (but long) chapthers? That feel weird. So did the end, a cliffhanger. Well, one of the ends. That Alpha and Beta Chapthers was confusing at first, but later I got used to. Both storylines explain different things. I think the Alpha was more entertaining but who is the girl that call Kyon? I hope they explain it on the 10th novel. And Haruhi entering in the neighbord pool also needs to be explain. Overall I really like it. Too bad the 10th novel was delayed and no release date has been given yet.

[UPR]

could it be a challanger for Haruhi in the race for Kyon. Well as stubborn as Haruhi is doubt she will ever admit it (but i wished she does).

[Jehuty77]

I'm sure the next novel will remove her competition for Kyon or have Kyon or Haruhi admit they have feeling for each other.

[UPR]

have Kyon or Haruhi admit they have feeling for each other.

one can only hope.

[PastPrime]

I was hoping for a thread just for volume 9, but since there is not one I will give my thoughts here. First let me note thatAfter all our discussion of the various possible alien interfaces, it is obvious from Kyon’s description of Suou that there have been no observers from the Canopy Domain before. Comparing The Data Entity's Humanoid Interfaces with her is like comparing the finished product with the first beta version.
I think that both stories happen one after the other with an endless August type reset in between. And I think that the author is trying to confuse the readers by putting the reset version first and the original version second. First a couple of thoughts on the girl who called on the phone and referred to Kyon as Senpai. I think that she is the same girl as the one who shows such interest in Haruhi’s speech. And, since she seemed to appear out of nowhere, she is either the slider or a humanoid interface. I will give my view on who she is after stating my theory.
My theory on how the events will play out.I think that Kyon is, eventually, going to have to use his trump and tell Haruhi about her powers. They will win, but Haruhi will realize that it was much more fun hunting for Espers, Aliens, and Time Travelers than having them there and having god like powers. I think she and Sasaki, possibly with the help of Nagato and Suou, reset time to the afternoon on the Saturday when they first met, with only the Humanoid Interfaces remembering. That is probably the point where Kyon has to make the decision about the future that Mikuro Big told him about. No reset is SB’s future. Reset is Mikuro’s future. And, in the interest of harmony, I think that Suou was reset also. That the girl who referred to Kyon as Senpai over the phone, who was so interested in what Haruhi had to say, and who will likely be the SOS Brigades first new member, is a Haruhi reset version of Suou Kuyoh. So, in the interest of peace and cooperation, both entitys will have an observer next to Haruhi.
Of course, given my success in predicting so far, "a" will come before "b" and the girl will be a slider.

[Alesiopdv]

Interesting theory.

I to think the girl that call is the same freshman that Kyon pays attention to, and the reason for the deja vu a possible time travel.
BUt if she is a slider could it be that she will make Kyon travel between dimension and go from Alpha to Beta or backwards.
The doubt is which reality is canon, Alpha or Beta?

[MrUdon]

nooo, where do you guys find volume 9? i dont know where i ask for torrents but if you could tell me ill post there

[moyism]

^ what, the translations? It isn't exactly a trade secret but you can find them here:

http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi

[PastPrime]

Interesting theory.

I to think the girl that call is the same freshman that Kyon pays attention to, and the reason for the deja vu a possible time travel.
BUt if she is a slider could it be that she will make Kyon travel between dimension and go from Alpha to Beta or backwards.
The doubt is which reality is canon, Alpha or Beta?

I thought that Yuki's statement "That is the Integrated Data Setient Entity provisionally chosen name for them. It is great progress. Until now, we have not even had the concept attaching names." is interesting. It seems that the Data Entity is starting to evolve just from it's contact with the Human Race.
It is also interesting that both Haruhi and Sasaki are friends of Kyons and seem to have a thing for him. Another hint that Kyon may not be as normal as he thinks.

[Mirrinus]

Another possibility I was thinking:

Perhaps the alpha and beta stories represent two alternate worlds, brought about by certain choices or events that occurred earlier in the timeline, before the two diverged. In the 7th novel, older Mikuru seemed to suggest that there was going to be a difficult decision coming up, with the outcome not clear, but which can be very bad if the wrong choice is made. Since she's from the future, I figured that was a point of divergence in time where one of the two paths leads to the future that older Mikuru works for and supports, while the other path would lead to the one sought after by the Sneering Bastard. My guess would be that in the end, one of these scenarios would terminate, and the correct one would be left standing.

[MrUdon]

moyism> thanks, but im trying to look for the raw. Somehow the transulation is easier to get then the raw....weird

[DJ_RockmanX]

Finally read vol. 9.

Thoughts on characters and interactions:

SOS vs. anti-SOS. Let the throwdown begin!

Alien interfaces first: Nagato Yuki vs. Suou Kuyoh. The Integrated Data Sentient Entity pwns the Canopy Domain in making better interfaces; even Nagato had better initial communication skills than Suou "the mute" Kuyoh. I wonder how KyoAni would deal with Suou's broken speech patterns? In any case I hope we'll get a head on clash between these two in the future, and not just mind battles through staring contests. :heh:

Now for time travellers: Asahina Mikuru vs. "Fujiwara". I hope they make Fujiwara into GAR material in the 3rd/4th/whatever season; that way it'd be a head on clash of moeblob and GARlock. Anyway, the intentions of these two seem simple enough: one protects the future, the other wants to screw it up. If there's anything to be added let me know, but that's all I can think of from the few lines that either of them got concerning their motivations.

Finally the espers: Koizumi Itsuki vs. Tachibana Kyoko. I'd love to see a heated philosophical discussion between these two. Maybe even one of the debates their Organizations had. At any rate the espers were the most highlighted group for this volume, especially in how much they contrast each other in their beliefs. It's pointing out the obvious, but the esper groups are polar opposites of each other.

The primary difference is with who the espers hold responsible for the creation of alternate space, or the godlike being at the center of the universe; Haruhi vs. Sasaki. Their approach in dealing with their repective god is also radically different; Sasaki is well-informed of what people think of her, while Haruhi remains clueless as ever. The final difference lies with the kind of alternate space that each esper deals with. Itsuki deals with dark space inhabited by giants bent on destruction whereas Kyoko enters lit space with no inhabitants at all. The Closed Space is also different in terms of the mental stability of their god. Haruhi's space has been defined to appear when she is edging closer to a breakdown, and while Sasaki's space has no definitive connecting mental state, it can be assumed that the space exists so long as she is mentally stable. There's also the case of entering the alternate space: Itsuki must fulfill a location requirement while Kyoko can enter the space at will. Does that mean that Sasaki's space has engulfed the world due to her supposed constant state of mental stability?

Thoughts on plot:

The A part and B part are something I'm not sure how to call. I'd say that resets and time divergences are both good theories, though.

The primary difference between the A part and B part is the presence and actions of the anti-SOS people; in A Kyon has no further interaction with them, while B is almost entirely about Kyon's confrontation and the aftermath. A also deals exclusively with the the unknown girl and her probable introduction to the SOS Brigade (I was surprised at the group lined up to join, lol).

One thing that I would like to touch on is from B part (B-5 to be exact). Kyon had one of those dreams with a flashback to middle school, and he equivocated it to pretty much a nightmare.

I fell into the hand of the demon of short-term sleep, and I had a dream that was among the worst of possibilities.
A vicarious experience of an event which actually happened...
...... Memories of a day in my third year...... in middle school......

But it was just a conversation between him and Sasaki. Why the big deal?

[insert freakishly long conversation here]

His innocent chat with Sasaki back in his 3rd year of middle school is what turned Kyon into the cynical and sarcastic bastard that he is now! (But he's still my hero) She was the one who robbed him of his childhood interests, and all in the name of excessive and unnecessary rationalism!

Anyway that's all I've got for now. Waiting for the next book along with many other things...

[PastPrime]

Haruhi's tutoring of Kyon in the "a" scenario makes makes me think that she is starting to think about keeping the SOS brigade going after High School and to do that she need Kyon to qualify for college too.
Now for time travellers: Asahina Mikuru vs. "Fujiwara". I hope they make Fujiwara into GAR material in the 3rd/4th/whatever season; that way it'd be a head on clash of moeblob and GARlock. Anyway, the intentions of these two seem simple enough: one protects the future, the other wants to screw it up. If there's anything to be added let me know, but that's all I can think of from the few lines that either of them got concerning their motivations.
I don't think that he wants to screw up the future, I think it more likely that he is from an alternate future. I suspect that Kyon is going to have a lose-lose choice to make since if it was only a choice between SB and Asahina it would be a no brainer, but future Mikuru seemed to be worried about which one Kyon would chose. Perhaps they will use Haruhi's powers to create a third path.

[DJ_RockmanX]

I don't think that he wants to screw up the future, I think it more likely that he is from an alternate future. I suspect that Kyon is going to have a lose-lose choice to make since if it was only a choice between SB and Asahina it would be a no brainer, but future Mikuru seemed to be worried about which one Kyon would chose. Perhaps they will use Haruhi's powers to create a third path.

Henceforth I leave all elements of theorizing the plotline in your very capable hands, as I have little-to-no imagination. :D

[Alesiopdv]

The important is that Sasaki says: "Love is a kind of mental disease", the same exact words Haruhi say to Kyon!!
Coul it be Sasaki and Haruhi are two half of the same person (two much Bee Train, I know)?

[Willcrusher]

I have a few questions.

Are there any online book sites etc where you can buy the 9 Light Novels this series was based off of? Or are they solely released/sold in Japan?

Regarding the MANGA of the series, how many volumes have been released to date? I tried searching for the light novels and manga on Ebay and came across one for a Vol. 4, but I do not know if it is the Light Novel or the Manga.

If anyone can help with my questions, thanks in advance. I am hooked onto the series and would like and try to get the manga/light novels for it as well.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I have a few questions.

Are there any online book sites etc where you can buy the 9 Light Novels this series was based off of? Or are they solely released/sold in Japan?

Regarding the MANGA of the series, how many volumes have been released to date? I tried searching for the light novels and manga on Ebay and came across one for a Vol. 4, but I do not know if it is the Light Novel or the Manga.

If anyone can help with my questions, thanks in advance. I am hooked onto the series and would like and try to get the manga/light novels for it as well.

I know currently that besides the Japanese novels, there is the Taiwanese edition, though they are not yet up to the latest book.
(There is also the Korea and China editions, but I have no idea which book they are currently up to.)

This is just a personal opinion, but I believe you are better off not getting the manga. The manga isn't that farther ahead than the anime, so you are better off reading instead. And the novels are far more detailed.:)

[Noppapana]

then again how should i read the chapter 2 of 9th novel ?
separately ?

[cardslash02]

Ok so this is getting very interesting...



So we have two separate timelines here, α and β. The defining, branching point seems to be that in β, Kyon did NOT meet with the opposition on Sunday, whereas in α, he did. Now this is an interesting, if not terribly important difference. But there are others, for example, SOS-dan getting alot of new members in α but none in β, and Nagato getting sick in β. And also, the mysterious girl who seems to know Kyon calling him - i'd agree with other people in this topic, and say this whole situation seems to be setting the stage for the appearance of a slider.

So far, an instance of two concurrent parallel universes has not yet appeared in any of the Haruhi novels. This does not APPEAR to be a "Nagato-reset" situation - that is, someone going back and tampering with the timeline. It simply is two diverging parallel universes. According to popular theory, each time someone makes a decision, a parallel universe is created where that person made the opposite decision and the two universes diverge from there. Whether the author has adopted that theory for his books is not clear. But, meanwhile we do not yet know if the creation of the parallel universe was natural or not. It could be the work of time travelers, time-tampering aliens, or sliders. However, what is clear is that we will need a bona-fide slider in order to hop between the universes. Thus, I believe our long-awaited sixth member, a slider, is on the way.

My prediction: the unknown girl is a slider, and she will go back and forth between the two parallel universes, perhaps taking one Kyon to the other universe and showing him how it is different. As the two universes diverge, more serious events will start to happen, and the slider will offer Kyon the choice of which one is "correct" or "right" to be the "real" universe. This will be the choice that future!Mikuru is talking about, and possibly related to the different future that Fujiwara seems to come from. Two parallel universes, two futures, and Kyon will have to choose and make the right choice. I also think that his choice will hinge on whether to "give" or return to Sasaki the godlike powers that Haruhi "stole".

Kyon is about to face a tough, tough trial. Many people will try to appeal to his reason and implore him to let Sasaki have the powers. But as he as already resolved, and I quote:
"If this reality is ever facing destruction, I would change it back to this old self no matter what. This is what I am determined to do....I had made this decision long ago, right during Christmas last year."(vol.9, ch 3)
Therefore, I presume something else, something very important to Kyon is about to be put on the line, enough to make him reconsider his resolve. What that would be, I do not know.



Thoughts? Disagreements?

[Alesiopdv]

Haruhi will want a Sixth Ranger for her Brigade. Every single Sentai team has one.

[PastPrime]

Ok so this is getting very interesting...



So we have two separate timelines here, α and β. The defining, branching point seems to be that in β, Kyon did NOT meet with the opposition on Sunday, whereas in α, he did. Now this is an interesting, if not terribly important difference. But there are others, for example, SOS-dan getting alot of new members in α but none in β, and Nagato getting sick in β. And also, the mysterious girl who seems to know Kyon calling him - i'd agree with other people in this topic, and say this whole situation seems to be setting the stage for the appearance of a slider.

So far, an instance of two concurrent parallel universes has not yet appeared in any of the Haruhi novels. This does not APPEAR to be a "Nagato-reset" situation - that is, someone going back and tampering with the timeline. It simply is two diverging parallel universes. According to popular theory, each time someone makes a decision, a parallel universe is created where that person made the opposite decision and the two universes diverge from there. Whether the author has adopted that theory for his books is not clear. But, meanwhile we do not yet know if the creation of the parallel universe was natural or not. It could be the work of time travelers, time-tampering aliens, or sliders. However, what is clear is that we will need a bona-fide slider in order to hop between the universes. Thus, I believe our long-awaited sixth member, a slider, is on the way.

My prediction: the unknown girl is a slider, and she will go back and forth between the two parallel universes, perhaps taking one Kyon to the other universe and showing him how it is different. As the two universes diverge, more serious events will start to happen, and the slider will offer Kyon the choice of which one is "correct" or "right" to be the "real" universe. This will be the choice that future!Mikuru is talking about, and possibly related to the different future that Fujiwara seems to come from. Two parallel universes, two futures, and Kyon will have to choose and make the right choice. I also think that his choice will hinge on whether to "give" or return to Sasaki the godlike powers that Haruhi "stole".

Kyon is about to face a tough, tough trial. Many people will try to appeal to his reason and implore him to let Sasaki have the powers. But as he as already resolved, and I quote:
"If this reality is ever facing destruction, I would change it back to this old self no matter what. This is what I am determined to do....I had made this decision long ago, right during Christmas last year."(vol.9, ch 3)
Therefore, I presume something else, something very important to Kyon is about to be put on the line, enough to make him reconsider his resolve. What that would be, I do not know.



Thoughts? Disagreements?

Well, you seemed to have crossed one thing up.B is where Sasaki called and where he met with them on Sunday. The splitting point seems to be the phone call. In A it is an unknown girl who calls hin Senpai, in B it is Sasaki setting up the Sunday meeting. I already gave my theory here. http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1068453&postcount=348
And, there will likely be a downside to whatever choice Kyon makes since if it was only a choice between Mikuro and SB it would be an easy choice for him, but future Mikuro seemed to be worried about what choice he would make.

[Raykun]

well lets hope the rite choice is made

and how do u make spoilers?

[X207]

well lets hope the rite choice is made

and how do u make spoilers?

simple just type this line, of course you hav to remove the space in btwn the 1st half of the spoiler line
[spoile r] blah blah blah[/spoiler]

[Raykun]

thnxs i kno now ^^

[Kristen]

So, I just finished volume 9. Does anyone have any predictions on it for book 10? My own are below.

I think that the alpha part will lead to the recruitment of that girl mentioned in alpha 6. She is most likely a normal human, just someone who is intently interested in the brigade. She probably came late, thus why Kyon counted 11 outside, and 12 inside. The ASOS brigade takes action, and tells Haruhi everything. This causes a dramatic unstable situation within Haruhi, and she destroys the world, recreating it without them, and with the SOS brigade as normal humans so the problems do not arise again.

I think the beta part will lead to the same girl coming, just later in the story as the sole new member. I think that the brigade members here will one by one become incapacitated by their opposing member, and Kyon will be forced to use his trump card. Doing this causes Haruhi to create a closed space which she allows to destroy all. However, she like Sasaki does not want Godlike power, so she relinquishes it. All brigade members are normal humans in the new world, because she grew up and accepted that they are child's play.


And the alpha and beta parts will be explained in the epilogue. Kyon was the slider all along, and Koizumi didn't want to tell him because he knew Kyon's childish wishes would cause him to overuse the power and never come back to the same place again, causing a destabilization of Haruhi and a destruction of the world.

Any other predictions?

Oh, and I do think Book 10 will be the last book. He has writers block making this one, thus the delay. So, I don't think he can make any more. Besides, should my predictions hold, there is no more powers, no more fun plot.

[PastPrime]

So, I just finished volume 9. Does anyone have any predictions on it for book 10? My own are below.

I think that the alpha part will lead to the recruitment of that girl mentioned in alpha 6. She is most likely a normal human, just someone who is intently interested in the brigade. She probably came late, thus why Kyon counted 11 outside, and 12 inside. The ASOS brigade takes action, and tells Haruhi everything. This causes a dramatic unstable situation within Haruhi, and she destroys the world, recreating it without them, and with the SOS brigade as normal humans so the problems do not arise again.

I think the beta part will lead to the same girl coming, just later in the story as the sole new member. I think that the brigade members here will one by one become incapacitated by their opposing member, and Kyon will be forced to use his trump card. Doing this causes Haruhi to create a closed space which she allows to destroy all. However, she like Sasaki does not want Godlike power, so she relinquishes it. All brigade members are normal humans in the new world, because she grew up and accepted that they are child's play.


And the alpha and beta parts will be explained in the epilogue. Kyon was the slider all along, and Koizumi didn't want to tell him because he knew Kyon's childish wishes would cause him to overuse the power and never come back to the same place again, causing a destabilization of Haruhi and a destruction of the world.

Any other predictions?

Oh, and I do think Book 10 will be the last book. He has writers block making this one, thus the delay. So, I don't think he can make any more. Besides, should my predictions hold, there is no more powers, no more fun plot.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1068453&postcount=348
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1086744&postcount=362

[X207]

So, I just finished volume 9. Does anyone have any predictions on it for book 10? My own are below.


And the alpha and beta parts will be explained in the epilogue. Kyon was the slider all along, and Koizumi didn't want to tell him because he knew Kyon's childish wishes would cause him to overuse the power and never come back to the same place again, causing a destabilization of Haruhi and a destruction of the world.


interesting theory, never thought of that b4

though my money is still on that girl to be the slider

[arkxkra]

Im not sure posting here or wat...but after looking the incident i feel very angry....

This is just a post to give you a brief idea of what is going on. On September 1st, 2007, the show "I guess, I guess" openly insulted anime and manga fans around the world. Rather than exploring the true nature of Anime as the show originally claimed to be, the show was focused on insulting the guest fans and harshly making them appear as outcasts and geeks. Though I am sure an English or Japanese subtitled version of that day's broadcast will surface in youtube soon, let me summarize the number of remarks made during the show.

1. Anime fans are criminals who doesn't deserve to live in this world.
They are dirty, unintelligent and they don't fit in the society.

2. When the guests try to defend themselves by adding comments that
they do have social circle, have a job and girl friend. The producer simply erased those clips in order to make them stay as geekish as possible.

3. The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi(Published by Kadokawa.) was portrayed by the host of the show, Jacky Wu as a pronographic novel about high school prostitutes. As he holds up the novel of Suzumiya Haruhi and reads out loud, he made up a fake story about two high school girls abducted and sexually molested.


The show consist of Jacky Wu and the disastrous "Hei Ser Huei MeiMei"(Horrible failed copycats of Morning Musume). Jacky Wu had been known for making ignorant public opionions for years. This time he had gone too far. The concept of the shows he hosts are mainly stolen straight from Japanese media. "I guess, I guess" being one of them.

We are here demanding an open apology from the Producer, the host Jacky Wu, and the stupid be-atches who claimed anime fans are criminals who doesn't deserve to live. In our opinion, they are the as-holes who doesn't deserve to live in this world. Please support the Taiwanese fans. Feel free to leave your comments here (http://bbs.ctv.com.tw/viewtopic.php?t=75393&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)! =)

can come here (http://bbs.ctv.com.tw/viewtopic.php?t=75393&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=) to support...

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Let me reiterate, I am wholeheartedly against Kyon being anything but a normal human-being. Obviously the final decision rests with the author, but there is really a lot at stake if Kyon's "normal-hood" is threatened.

Mainly, Kyon's role as the narrator would greatly diminish. We would no longer be able to put ourselves in his shoes as comfortably. If there were to be challenges and quests in Kyon's path, it is so much more satisfying for him to succeed in his goals with tools we all posses.

...But of course, that is just my opinion.:heh:

[UPR]

Let me reiterate, I am wholeheartedly against Kyon being anything but a normal human-being. Obviously the final decision rests with the author, but there is really a lot at stake if Kyon's "normal-hood" is threatened.

Mainly, Kyon's role as the narrator would greatly diminish. We would no longer be able to put ourselves in his shoes as comfortably. If there were to be challenges and quests in Kyon's path, it is so much more satisfying for him to succeed in his goals with tools we all posses.

...But of course, that is just my opinion.:heh:

Agree with you 100%.

There are 2 things i want to happen:
1. I want Kyon to stay normal.
2. The Kyon x Haruhi relationship to be confirmed. "Confirmed" may not be the right word ,but you know what I mean.

[Alesiopdv]

THere are a lot of loose ends that cant be wrap up in just one more novel.

1-What is Kyon true name?
2- Who is really Tsuruya-san?
3- Why is Mikuru-chan helping herself in the past (creating a time paradox)?
4- Kyon mencion some SOS Dan adventures they had in the time between the 7th and 9th novels.

And some other things I dont remember right now.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

THere are a lot of loose ends that cant be wrap up in just one more novel.

1-What is Kyon true name?
2- Who is really Tsuruya-san?
3- Why is Mikuru-chan helping herself in the past (creating a time paradox)?
4- Kyon mencion some SOS Dan adventures they had in the time between the 7th and 9th novels.

And some other things I dont remember right now.

1- Up until a few months ago, the author admits he still haven't gave Kyon a name yet. Things could have changed since, but I doubt it.

2- Someone who has her own story to tell, but is only interested in being a guest so far. Tsuruya, from what we know, has a complex past and family history that deserve to get her own series. But the point being this is Kyon and Haruhi's story, not hers. I like to imagine Tsuruya being Batman in Gotham while Haruhi is Superman in Metropolis. They cross paths, but each keep to their own side of the turf.
Kyon might ask Yuki for help when he has no choice, but when Yuki can't, he goes to Tsuruya. Tsuruya must have a great deal to hide herself, as she understands when not to ask too many questions. Further, she kept disappearing weeks on end for mysterious trips...
Life goes on outside SOS-dan. Kyon might be protecting the existence of the universe. But there are other jobs that, though not as important, still needs to be done. I believe Tsuruya is one of those "background heroes".

3-There is no paradox. Paradox that self-terminates is lethal, but a time-loop is harmless. Adult Mikurur helped her younger self because that was what history recorded. It is also why Mikuru was chosen for her task, and with so little training; they were just following history.
(Another example is when Kyon had to allow his past-self to get stabbed, even when he could have prevented it. Time traveling is annoying. That's also why Yuki sealed her own ability to see the future.)

I don't remember much about 4.....:heh:

[zoozoc]

THere are a lot of loose ends that cant be wrap up in just one more novel.

1-What is Kyon true name?
2- Who is really Tsuruya-san?
3- Why is Mikuru-chan helping herself in the past (creating a time paradox)?
4- Kyon mencion some SOS Dan adventures they had in the time between the 7th and 9th novels.

And some other things I dont remember right now.

i believe the answer to the 4th would be the 2(or possibly more) haruhi theater adventures.

[inkyubasu]

4- Kyon mencion some SOS Dan adventures they had in the time between the 7th and 9th novels.

Really???? I don't remember that... Because if that's true, then the story can't end in the next volume... It would have loose ends...
By any chance, do you recall where he said so?

[Kristen]

THere are a lot of loose ends that cant be wrap up in just one more novel.

1-What is Kyon true name?
2- Who is really Tsuruya-san?
3- Why is Mikuru-chan helping herself in the past (creating a time paradox)?
4- Kyon mencion some SOS Dan adventures they had in the time between the 7th and 9th novels.

And some other things I dont remember right now.

About number 4- Those were the events of book 8.

[Atheuz]

I have a question for a very likely event to come in the next novel. It's become somewhat obvious that Haruhi has chosen Kyun and will eventually confess to him - But how will this work out for Kyun? Does he have that kind of feelings for Haruhi and if so will the narrating style change completely from a "that's dumb haruhi stop it" to a "THAT'S A REALLY GOOD IDEA"? Basically, how will them being romantically involved with one another change the story?

Just takes guesses really, there's bound to be someone more knowledgable about this than me that knows the characters and the writer better than me.

[Twisted Reality]

I have a question for a very likely event to come in the next novel. It's become somewhat obvious that Haruhi has chosen Kyun and will eventually confess to him - But how will this work out for Kyun? Does he have that kind of feelings for Haruhi and if so will the narrating style change completely from a "that's dumb haruhi stop it" to a "THAT'S A REALLY GOOD IDEA"? Basically, how will them being romantically involved with one another change the story?

Just takes guesses really, there's bound to be someone more knowledgable about this than me that knows the characters and the writer better than me.
Aren't they already romantically involved? Kyon likes Haruhi. He kissed her in novel one and secretly thinks that she's cute (or hot). He's sneaking peaks at Haruhi's body and has at least compared Haruhi to Mikuru once (Infinity Eight). And as far as he's concerned, Haruhi is his social life. He just doesn't like making it obvious to the audience or anybody he knows.

Fundamentally, I don't see their relationship changing all that much if they were to both "confess." Kyon will still think that Haruhi is being childish with her schemes and Haruhi will still expect Kyon to do all the heavy lifting. You know, except maybe there will be sex and lots of annoying PDA at some point.

Haruhi: Kyon! Sex now!"
Kyon: *complaining* I have a headache.
Haruhi: *pouts*

[Atheuz]

Aren't they already romantically involved? Kyon likes Haruhi. He kissed her in novel one and secretly thinks that she's cute (or hot). He's sneaking peaks at Haruhi's body and has at least compared Haruhi to Mikuru once (Infinity Eight). And as far as he's concerned, Haruhi is his social life. He just doesn't like making it obvious to the audience or anybody he knows.

No, they're not romantically involved because I wouldn't exactly call the kiss in the first novel very romantic - Rather a last resort to see if he could get Haruhi to snap out of her "ohhh this is fun i wanna stay here forever"-mode.

I don't think it's a secret to anyone that Kyon thinks Haruhi is attractive, but based on that solely it's not a good enough reason to start being romancy, but yes I do agree without Haruhi his life would be very boring and she is his only source of entertainment as it is - I'm sure he has garnered some kind of feelings for her.


Fundamentally, I don't see their relationship changing all that much if they were to both "confess." Kyon will still think that Haruhi is being childish with her schemes and Haruhi will still expect Kyon to do all the heavy lifting. You know, except maybe there will be sex and lots of annoying PDA at some point.

Mmh I suppose you're right, but he would have to stop lying to himself at that point and the commentary/his thoughts would change somewhat, atleast that's what I think. I mean after confessing he would have no point in trying to keep his feelings a secret anymore, atleast not for the reader - He doesn't strike me as a person who'd go all "NO! THIS IS TOO EMBARRASING *puts fingers in ears* LALALALALALA" on us :/


Haruhi: Kyon! Sex now!"
Kyon: *complaining* I have a headache.
Haruhi: *pouts*

lol.

[UPR]

Well in the first kiss was not sorta for romance, but we all know they will be together just a matter of time before the author decides to hook them up.

[Twisted Reality]

Well, my point more or less is based of Itsuki's explanation in the Day of Sagittarius episode.

And his point was that so much of the basic relationship was already there, that Haruhi and Kyon are already functionally an unofficial couple. You know, the whole trust thing. It's arguably love, even if it doesn't seem very romantic on the surface. Besides, it seems his destiny is inextricably entangled in hers. Not that it matters, because he doesn't seem to mind this at all. He's already made a decision in that regard by coming to the SOS Brigade every day.

I don't know about you, but Kyon kissing Haruhi was sort of the, "yeah, you're pretty much committed to Haruhi" moment. And he does this after confronting the question "what is Haruhi to me?" She's not God, a data anomaly or a time quake.

And even though he's sexually attracted to her, she's more than just a piece of tail to him. In fact, he's probably the first person to roll his eyes when people suggest that's why he's with Haruhi in the first place. He's not the type of person to inconvenience himself just because a girl is hot. He'll look, but he's not prone to dashing his brains over the wall of futility.

And I suppose, for all practical purposes, most people would face temptation in the affairs marital. I don't really see that temptation coming from Nagato or Mikuru -- since they seem to lack a certain "practical chemistry" that makes relationships work. Mikuru is what Kyon *thinks* he wants. Either way, neither are really practical candidates in the long-run for Kyon. I think the only real competition really comes from Sasaki (from those of you who read the novels). And Sasaki is meant to generate conflict for Kyon, not bring him resolution.

Or in short, this is an involved explanation for what everybody knows already. Kyon and Haruhi are going to get together. It's in the story, even if it's not obvious in the plot. So as far as I'm concerned, the matter is a done deal. That's sort of the point: This is a story about a healthy adult male+female relationship being forged in high school and it's both fateful and magical. That's romantic. I got my rise out of it already.

Just to underscore the point, how well do high school relationships actually pan out? Was your first kiss nearly as dramatic as Kyon's?

[UPR]

As always in takes Twisted to put thing into perspective. Thanks, i sorta feel i understand it better now.

[KeitaroNagato]

I would like if some pls, pls, let me know whats going on in Chapter 2 and 3?
I've read it and it seems like the there is two split timeline in volume 9, is this correct?
If so... what is the read time? or there are actually 2 timeline co-exist parallel to each other? or there is actually 1 universe with 2 timeline ... if that is possible?

thanks.


ありがとう

[X207]

I would like if some pls, pls, let me know whats going on in Chapter 2 and 3?
I've read it and it seems like the there is two split timeline in volume 9, is this correct?
If so... what is the read time? or there are actually 2 timeline co-exist parallel to each other? or there is actually 1 universe with 2 timeline ... if that is possible?

thanks.


ありがとう

yes, theres the one where haruhi has the power and then theres the one where they support sasaki. so far they seem to coesist. as for which one is the real timeline, i suspect thats most likely for kyon to decide.

[Grey Goshawk]

But how is Kyon going to decide if there are two of them?
I can't really imagine how, since the 2 Kyons will need to talk to each other or for one Kyon to gain the other's memories or something :S

[X207]

But how is Kyon going to decide if there are two of them?
I can't really imagine how, since the 2 Kyons will need to talk to each other or for one Kyon to gain the other's memories or something :S

i guess we'll find out more about that in vol 10/11 or whenever a timeline is chosen.

[PastPrime]

But how is Kyon going to decide if there are two of them?
I can't really imagine how, since the 2 Kyons will need to talk to each other or for one Kyon to gain the other's memories or something :S

If the girl at the SOS Dan meeting was a slider then there is no reason that they can't both be the same Kyon. He has eperienced alternate timelines before.

[X207]

an itnersting kyon vol 10 theory someone posted up here (sry, forgot who it was)
maybe kyon was the slider all along and he's obilvious to that fact+ ppl hid that secret from him.
that^ or the new girl are both intriguing possibilities imo

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

an itnersting kyon vol 10 theory someone posted up here (sry, forgot who it was)
maybe kyon was the slider all along and he's obilvious to that fact+ ppl hid that secret from him.
that^ or the new girl are both intriguing possibilities imo

Nah. The author said in an interview that Kyon was originally meant to be an Esper. But then he decided that an ordinary human was best as the narrator. I agree with him.

[X207]

Nah. The author said in an interview that Kyon was originally meant to be an Esper. But then he decided that an ordinary human was best as the narrator. I agree with him.

where was that interview posted? i didnt know about it until you posted that.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

where was that interview posted? i didnt know about it until you posted that.

http://books.yahoo.co.jp/interview/detail/31131493/01.html

――退屈を何よりも嫌い、学園生活に「非日常」を求めるハルヒに振り回されるのが、語り手のキョンです。キ ョンは本名すら明かされず、これといって特徴もない、普通の少年ですが。

「まともな名前をつけてもよかったんですけど、最初から最後までけったいなニックネームで呼ばれ続けるとい うのもマヌケでいいのではないかと。特徴に関しては、当初の予定では超能力者の一人にしようかと考えていた のですが、プロローグを書いている途中で何故か一般人になってしまいました。また、普通の少年とのことです が、ある意味思考形態はあまり普通ではないように思うんですけれども」

The underlined section is when he said Kyon was suppose to be an ESPer originally.

[Twisted Reality]

Nah. The author said in an interview that Kyon was originally meant to be an Esper. But then he decided that an ordinary human was best as the narrator. I agree with him.
Hardly seems to matter to me whether he's "ordinary" or not. The fact that he's selectively blinded to himself and his role makes him plenty of a mystery. And he is a slider, in a manner of speaking already since he's already jumped through several different time lines, been inside Haruhi's headspace and the pocket dimension with the Giant Cave Cricket.

From Haruhi's point of view, Kyon probably seems pretty mysterious. I wonder how much of her attraction is a result of the mystery that Kyon seems to embody. She definitely gets some sense of familiarity when she says "You look familiar, have I met you somewhere before?" He probably reminds her uncannily of John Smith, who answered her fervent prayers on the field and suggested the existence of aliens, time travelers and espers and influenced her decision to come to North High in the first place. Of course, Kyon couldn't reasonably be the same person as John Smith, but Haruhi senses that something is unusual here.

And really, with Kyon's special orientation within the Haruhi cosmology, you wonder what Kyon isn't aware of about himself. Haruhi doesn't know about her powers. What does Kyon not know about himself? He pretty much his own endless loop regarding Tanabata . . . . . . and it doesn't seem like a coincidence that both Sasaki and Haruhi have their own personal esper societies and Closed Spaces. I suspect Kyon is the reason why the power was transferred over. I also wonder if Sasaki's personal esper knew that Kyon was the important link when she petitioned for his help.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Hardly seems to matter to me whether he's "ordinary" or not. The fact that he's selectively blinded to himself and his role makes him plenty of a mystery. And he is a slider, in a manner of speaking already since he's already jumped through several different time lines, been inside Haruhi's headspace and the pocket dimension with the Giant Cave Cricket.

From Haruhi's point of view, Kyon probably seems pretty mysterious. I wonder how much of her attraction is a result of the mystery that Kyon seems to embody. She definitely gets some sense of familiarity when she says "You look familiar, have I met you somewhere before?" He probably reminds her uncannily of John Smith, who answered her fervent prayers on the field and suggested the existence of aliens, time travelers and espers and influenced her decision to come to North High in the first place. Of course, Kyon couldn't reasonably be the same person as John Smith, but Haruhi senses that something is unusual here.

And really, with Kyon's special orientation within the Haruhi cosmology, you wonder what Kyon isn't aware of about himself. Haruhi doesn't know about her powers. What does Kyon not know about himself? He pretty much his own endless loop regarding Tanabata . . . . . . and it doesn't seem like a coincidence that both Sasaki and Haruhi have their own personal esper societies and Closed Spaces. I suspect Kyon is the reason why the power was transferred over. I also wonder if Sasaki's personal esper knew that Kyon was the important link when she petitioned for his help.

Look, I don't mind if you want to be a Kyonist, or whatever else you want to believe. Kyon is an important person in the series, and that's not something anyone disputes. But I don't see why you need to wrap any mysticism around him as a person; he was someone in the right place at the right time, and became very vital to many powerful forces. But there is no suggestion anywhere for why Kyon would be anything but an ordinary person. The author in the novels intentionally made the point repeatedly that Kyon is without powers, because that's what he decided Kyon was to be.

Yes, it matter whether he is ordinary or not. An ordinary Kyon is a Kyon we can relate too, a Kyon we can understand. He keeps all the supernatural events around him grounded and within reach of the reader. This is important.

(p.s. by your own definition, every character in SOS dan is a slider. Thus, when everyone is a slider, nobody is.)

[shotna13]

hi, i'm new here. I've been reading the posts on this thread for some time now and i have some theories ( rather strange i think ) about Kyon
So... here it goes

first of all i would like to say that i also believe that Kyon is nothing more than an ordinary human being, with no special or supernatural powers whatsoever., and also an important character, if not the central character, in this story. That being said i'll get right to the point.
I think Kyon is actualy ( now this will sound very strange ) " the man who always makes the right choice". Ok...if you want to stop reading this weird theory now you can do so, i won't mind :). But anyway...i'm not refering to the fact that Kyon is the main character of this story and thus the audience expects of him to always make the right choice, i am talking about Kyon's " reason to be". He is important because he is the only character who can make the right choice. i got this idea from another book i have read some time ago in which the hero is in a similar situation as that of kyon. The hero is also confronted by different factions , equaly powerful, which demand of him to make a choice regarding what faction should become the dominant one. He has the ability to always make the right decision, so whatever faction he chooses will bring peace an happiness to the worl/universe etc. This ability isn't somesort of a supernatural power, but rather luck, coincidence or instinct.
So returnig to Kyon's case maybe this is his true purpose. He is an ordinary human being with the ability to always make the right choice ( i know it's not an ordinary ability but bare with me). Throughout the novels he is confonted with different choices. In vol. 1 he finds himself in a closed space and "persuades " haruhi to return to the old world. In vol. 4 he chooses the old universe over the Nagato-universe. In vol. 7 he decides to help asahina (big) by following her instructions even though at one point he asks himself what if he were to disobey those instructions , and not to mention the important choice asahina(big) said he will have to make in the near future ( probably to decide who the new god-like existence should be: haruhi or sasaki. Who knows... maybe kyon would have to go back in time when sasaki had the powers and not haruhi and decide which one of them should hold on to those powers).
Also in Asahina Mikuru's Adventure Episode 00 Koizumy refers to Kyon as the key who can only open a door and nothing else ( however it si the key that decides which door should be opened), while in vol. 7 Koizumy tells kyon right at the end :

"Maybe the one with omnipotent powers isn't Suzumiya-san after all, but rather someone else?"

Koizumi's probably trying to add some sarcasm to his smile, yet all I saw was his usual grin.

"The eye of the storm is very calm, yet it is surrounded by calamity. Maybe there are some that decide to watch from the sidelines and see how all this unfolds. You sure have been kept busy as well, would a scriptwriter play such a tiring character himself?"

I don't know if this statement implies that kyon might be god ( it doesn't matter anyway) however it does underline kyon's importance to the story. And these aren't the only examples.On many occasions Kyon is confronted with several choices from which he has to pick only one, and usualy is the right one. So maybe because of this unique ability kyon was chosen both by haruhi and sasaki, koizumy pledged his loiality to him and nagato and asahina are both following his instructions.
I know this theory doesn't answer all the big questions, like what happened 3-4 years ago, where do haruhi's powers come from but...
well..i hope i didn't bore to much and...see ya

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

hi, i'm new here. I've been reading the posts on this thread for some time now and i have some theories ( rather strange i think ) about Kyon
So... here it goes

first of all i would like to say that i also believe that Kyon is nothing more than an ordinary human being, with no special or supernatural powers whatsoever., and also an important character, if not the central character, in this story. That being said i'll get right to the point.
I think Kyon is actualy ( now this will sound very strange ) " the man who always makes the right choice". Ok...if you want to stop reading this weird theory now you can do so, i won't mind :). But anyway...i'm not refering to the fact that Kyon is the main character of this story and thus the audience expects of him to always make the right choice, i am talking about Kyon's " reason to be". He is important because he is the only character who can make the right choice. i got this idea from another book i have read some time ago in which the hero is in a similar situation as that of kyon. The hero is also confronted by different factions , equaly powerful, which demand of him to make a choice regarding what faction should become the dominant one. He has the ability to always make the right decision, so whatever faction he chooses will bring peace an happiness to the worl/universe etc. This ability isn't somesort of a supernatural power, but rather luck, coincidence or instinct.
So returnig to Kyon's case maybe this is his true purpose. He is an ordinary human being with the ability to always make the right choice ( i know it's not an ordinary ability but bare with me). Throughout the novels he is confonted with different choices. In vol. 1 he finds himself in a closed space and "persuades " haruhi to return to the old world. In vol. 4 he chooses the old universe over the Nagato-universe. In vol. 7 he decides to help asahina (big) by following her instructions even though at one point he asks himself what if he were to disobey those instructions , and not to mention the important choice asahina(big) said he will have to make in the near future ( probably to decide who the new god-like existence should be: haruhi or sasaki. Who knows... maybe kyon would have to go back in time when sasaki had the powers and not haruhi and decide which one of them should hold on to those powers).
Also in Asahina Mikuru's Adventure Episode 00 Koizumy refers to Kyon as the key who can only open a door and nothing else ( however it si the key that decides which door should be opened), while in vol. 7 Koizumy tells kyon right at the end :

"Maybe the one with omnipotent powers isn't Suzumiya-san after all, but rather someone else?"

Koizumi's probably trying to add some sarcasm to his smile, yet all I saw was his usual grin.

"The eye of the storm is very calm, yet it is surrounded by calamity. Maybe there are some that decide to watch from the sidelines and see how all this unfolds. You sure have been kept busy as well, would a scriptwriter play such a tiring character himself?"

I don't know if this statement implies that kyon might be god ( it doesn't matter anyway) however it does underline kyon's importance to the story. And these aren't the only examples.On many occasions Kyon is confronted with several choices from which he has to pick only one, and usualy is the right one. So maybe because of this unique ability kyon was chosen both by haruhi and sasaki, koizumy pledged his loiality to him and nagato and asahina are both following his instructions.
I know this theory doesn't answer all the big questions, like what happened 3-4 years ago, where do haruhi's powers come from but...
well..i hope i didn't bore to much and...see ya

There is just one problem with your theory; we couldn't possibly know if any of Kyon's choices was right or not. Decisions Kyon made throughout the novels were never clear-cut. Kyon only truly made choices not for the sake of the universe, but for what he wanted. And that's all anyone expected him to do.

Since up to now, we don't know what could have been the outcome if Kyon made a different choice in the past, you can't say one way or another if he had been right. Kyon could have stayed in Haruhi's new world, or he could have become a member of Yuki's literature club, and things could have worked out. But Kyon made his own dicision on what he wanted, and that's that.
(Another major hole in your theory, is that if Kyon could always make the right choice, they would never have gotten stuck in the time-loop in Endless8 for that many hundreds of thousands of times; they would have broken out way earlier.)
In fact, assuming the split-world in the new novel would even be solved by Kyon, it might be the first time we even see an alternative of what could have happened if Kyon made another choice. As I said, there is a chance this might not even be related to him.

[NagatoYuki]

can the cat at episode 00 really talk?

[Atheuz]

hi, i'm new here. I've been reading the posts on this thread for some time now and i have some theories ( rather strange i think ) about Kyon
So... here it goes


"Maybe the one with omnipotent powers isn't Suzumiya-san after all, but rather someone else?"

Koizumi's probably trying to add some sarcasm to his smile, yet all I saw was his usual grin.

"The eye of the storm is very calm, yet it is surrounded by calamity. Maybe there are some that decide to watch from the sidelines and see how all this unfolds. You sure have been kept busy as well, would a scriptwriter play such a tiring character himself?"


No. He was being sarcastic and Kyon is just a normal teenager - This has been pointed out by the author many times. Also, everything appears to happen when Haruhi wants it to. Like in the movie they made, the contacts Asahina could send out lasers, miniature black holes and so on - All because Haruhi wanted them to be special. Or when Haruhi got bored of the world and she got stuck in the Closed Space with Kyon, she was the one who got them out too. Or when she's annoyed she creates Closed Spaces and at those times nothing shows that Kyon might be annoyed or create them subconsiciously. There is too much that points towards Haruhi being the omnipotent one and every single supernatural event in the story besides the timetravel ones by Asahina, the data manipulation by Nagato or the termination of closed space monsters by Itsuki are connected to Haruhi.


can the cat at episode 00 really talk?

Yes, Haruhi wanted a talking cat - So they got one.

[shotna13]

Point taken. We might never know if any of kyon choices were right or not. I just like how the phrase "the man who always makes the right choice" sounded . However you can't deny the fact that throughout the novels most of the choices involved are left up to kyon. So let me rephrase it: whether he makes the right choices or not will probably never know, however the other characters ( Koizumy, Nagato, Asahina(big)) trust Kyon in such matters and believe he'll be able to make the right decions.

Vol. 9 isn't the first time we've seen two different realities. It also happened in Disappeareance where there were actualy two December 18. It was left up to Kyon to decide which one should be the real world. And true he didn't make that decisions for the sake of the universe, however his decision did influence the entire universe at the end. The only difference between vol. 4 and vol. 9 ( if it's the same case here) is that Kyon remembered the old Haruhi-universe and that was because of Nagato who didn't erase his memories so he could be able to make the choice.

About Endless Eight. My hat's off to you. I can think at enything good right now...however it was more like solving a riddle in that case than actualy making a choice

[X207]

can the cat at episode 00 really talk?

yes, during the filming of that process it all became real ie talking shami
other left out scenes not shown in anime ep
real mikuru beam, mikuru beam R (nagato tackled her to stop it).

[Zaresh]

hi, i'm new here. I've been reading the posts on this thread for some time now and i have some theories ( rather strange i think ) about Kyon
So... here it goes

first of all i would like to say that i also believe that Kyon is nothing more than an ordinary human being, with no special or supernatural powers whatsoever., and also an important character, if not the central character, in this story. That being said i'll get right to the point.
I think Kyon is actualy ( now this will sound very strange ) " the man who always makes the right choice". Ok...if you want to stop reading this weird theory now you can do so, i won't mind :). But anyway...i'm not refering to the fact that Kyon is the main character of this story and thus the audience expects of him to always make the right choice, i am talking about Kyon's " reason to be". He is important because he is the only character who can make the right choice. i got this idea from another book i have read some time ago in which the hero is in a similar situation as that of kyon. The hero is also confronted by different factions , equaly powerful, which demand of him to make a choice regarding what faction should become the dominant one. He has the ability to always make the right decision, so whatever faction he chooses will bring peace an happiness to the worl/universe etc. This ability isn't somesort of a supernatural power, but rather luck, coincidence or instinct.
So returnig to Kyon's case maybe this is his true purpose. He is an ordinary human being with the ability to always make the right choice ( i know it's not an ordinary ability but bare with me). Throughout the novels he is confonted with different choices. In vol. 1 he finds himself in a closed space and "persuades " haruhi to return to the old world. In vol. 4 he chooses the old universe over the Nagato-universe. In vol. 7 he decides to help asahina (big) by following her instructions even though at one point he asks himself what if he were to disobey those instructions , and not to mention the important choice asahina(big) said he will have to make in the near future ( probably to decide who the new god-like existence should be: haruhi or sasaki. Who knows... maybe kyon would have to go back in time when sasaki had the powers and not haruhi and decide which one of them should hold on to those powers).
Also in Asahina Mikuru's Adventure Episode 00 Koizumy refers to Kyon as the key who can only open a door and nothing else ( however it si the key that decides which door should be opened), while in vol. 7 Koizumy tells kyon right at the end :

"Maybe the one with omnipotent powers isn't Suzumiya-san after all, but rather someone else?"

Koizumi's probably trying to add some sarcasm to his smile, yet all I saw was his usual grin.

"The eye of the storm is very calm, yet it is surrounded by calamity. Maybe there are some that decide to watch from the sidelines and see how all this unfolds. You sure have been kept busy as well, would a scriptwriter play such a tiring character himself?"

I don't know if this statement implies that kyon might be god ( it doesn't matter anyway) however it does underline kyon's importance to the story. And these aren't the only examples.On many occasions Kyon is confronted with several choices from which he has to pick only one, and usualy is the right one. So maybe because of this unique ability kyon was chosen both by haruhi and sasaki, koizumy pledged his loiality to him and nagato and asahina are both following his instructions.
I know this theory doesn't answer all the big questions, like what happened 3-4 years ago, where do haruhi's powers come from but...
well..i hope i didn't bore to much and...see ya


In sort, you mean...

Kyon is like Golan Trevize in Foundation last books? But Golan was not an ordinary person, you know... Second Foundatioon leader was very interested on him because he was very VERY special. Eve if he looked like a normal guy. But, yeah, Kyon resembled very well that especial but not especial person. His abnormality or his power is to do the right choice and to be in the right place in the correct time... always, every time.

[KeitaroNagato]

yes, theres the one where haruhi has the power and then theres the one where they support sasaki. so far they seem to coesist. as for which one is the real timeline, i suspect thats most likely for kyon to decide.

Thanks X207, I had to re-read the first the ALPHA parts, then the BETA parts last. I have a wierd feeling that, in the BETA 4 chapter when Tachibana Kyoko said:

"We firmly believe the powers Suzumiya-san are holding onto now
originally belonged to Sasaki-san. However there must be a mistake
somewhere that caused it to transfer to another person. And therefore, I hope
to change things back to how it was. In that case, the world will definitely
move in a much better direction."

How can the powers be suddenly transfer to Haruhi? Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think this timeline is cause by Sasaki, because Kyoko clearly stated that the powers must be transfer back to Sasaki. In that just who has the ability to cause a parallel time line, well we all know Haruhi can create the universe that way she fits it, but there are two persons that comes to mind.... Nagato and Kuyoh. I suspect its Kuyoh for the following reasons:

1. Yuki again got sick again just like in Snowy Mountain Syndrome.
2. Yuki just like haruhi can create, manipulate, and destroy dimensions and matter, but unlike haruhi, Yuki cannot create the universe. Yuki shows that in The Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi.
3.Itsuki Koizumi and Yuki acknowledge that The Canopy Domain is behind the incident that happend in Snowy Mountain Syndrome. Therefore, there is only one character that is able to create another timeline that overlaps the real timeline, is Kuyoh.

In conclusion: Kyoko, would be telling/asking/demanding that the powers should transfer back to Sasaki, even it shows that Sasaki has some abilities to read minds, (like Koizumi and Haruhi) but other wise... she is just a normal person. And all those coincidental meetings with Kyon, is not Sasaki doings. I suspect its the Sneering Bastard pullings the strings, The Intrigues of Suzumiya Haruhi (vol 7) Clearly stated Mikuru from eight days in the future, was kidnap by both Sneering Bastard and Kyoko, it clearly shows that they were incognito/following them from afar. Sasaki was not even involved.

Well, I truly believe is Kuyoh. Maybe I'm wrong,I had to re-read volume 1 to 8 again (GOD!!! I love Nagaru Tanigawa's work :D I could re-read over and over...hahaha ), just in case I miss something.

What do you think? It is Kuyoh...right?


Thank you
Domo Arigato

In the prologue of vol 9, Kyon states this:


I already know aliens, as well as a time-traveling senior. I also cannot deny
that the male whom I talked to the most often throughout the past year is an
esper as well. But...
On that day, that moment, when Haruhi made that introduction speech that
shocked all of 1-5, of all the groups she mentioned there is still one that has
not appeared.

Sliders.

Even though I do not wish for such people to exist, and the only one who
would feel that they are missing is that girl, now that we have all been
successfully promoted, the first-year seat is left empty...


If that is the case: what if by coincident it's actually Sasaki, the reason I'm thinking it because how the ALPHA and BETA timeline also trigger by two factor:
The meeting with Suzumiya and the SOS Brigade's Member, prior to the creation of the timeline.
After the "call" to kyon.

Even though its POV of kyon, but it just way to coincident that its has to be involved with Sasaki.

Then there is the last Thought.

When Haruhi met Sasaki the first time, she (Sasaki) introduced her self as a "Close Friend", as Koizumi pointed/hinted this may have caused the sudden Close Space to appear more frequently. As this may be also a trigger for the 2 timeline to be created. The reasons are the following:
The second time SOS Brigade met, Sasaki had Kyoko, Kuyoh and Sneering Bastard with her. That may be the pointing gun.
Heres another way to put it.

SOS BRIGADE = SASAKI CREW

Haruhi Suzumiya = Sasaki
Koizumi = Kyoko
Nagato = Kuyoh
Mikuru = Sneering Bastard
Kyon

Each one correspond to each other, if the interpretation is correct... each one are rivals, but not Kyon.
Kyon is the only one that really does not have a rival, in some case he should be in the middle. And this added by the fact that Haruhi as pointed by Koizumi, his overload of "part-time" work he has to do, cause the Haruhi's mental instability. coincidentally started from the first meeting. On the second meeting, it was "what the camel back broke...", causing Haruhi to be annoyed or even just for arguing sake... hurt. As we all know she has deep feelings for Kyon, after all she it the one that chooses him. In some case, if she has got hurt, and not aware of what it may have caused, this new type of emotional imbalance (remember most of her life she was just a lonely kid) may actually caused the timeline to split in 2, one is the real one while the other one is her... lets say the "Hurt" one. In this case it involving Kyon to be in the middle. Perhaps, it like when someone wants you to be understanding about the sensitivity of how someone that most of their lives was actually alone, in an act of "GOD" (well just think of that for a moment ...), deep inside Kyon is there with her (not only in the PAST/PRESENT time frames). In some way it's like Haruhi given Kyon a chance to walk both path and he must discover the reason what is given to him. Such as that old saying... "each road must go somewhere". Haruhi can create multiple timelines, just like when Kyon and her were together in a new dimension, while the other one... Koizumi with the help of the "Organization" able to penetrate on the one haruhi just create, but for a small time. If you think about, as he said the old dimension is still in existance, while the new old is just created, "if Haruhi is merciful... the one old will continue with the new...." VOL 1. In that case, there was 2 dimensions in existances!!! All that by Haruhi powers. What if this Timeline is actually Haruhi as well....?

Too many theories... hahahaha

Enjoy the thoughts :)

Thank you
Domo arigato

[shotna13]

In sort, you mean...

Kyon is like Golan Trevize in Foundation last books? But Golan was not an ordinary person, you know... Second Foundatioon leader was very interested on him because he was very VERY special. Eve if he looked like a normal guy. But, yeah, Kyon resembled very well that especial but not especial person. His abnormality or his power is to do the right choice and to be in the right place in the correct time... always, every time.

That's right. I first got the idea from Asimov's Foundation books. Compared to the other factions Golan Travize seemed like a minor player in the beginning, that is until the last pages of the book. I wonder if Kyon will ever doubt his choices just like Trevize did once.



SOS BRIGADE = SASAKI CREW

Haruhi Suzumiya = Sasaki
Koizumi = Kyoko
Nagato = Kuyoh
Mikuru = Sneering Bastard
Kyon

Each one correspond to each other, if the interpretation is correct... each one are rivals, but not Kyon.


So maybe two time lines are showing two different stories. One which belongs to kyon and the other one to, let's say' anti-Kyon...although not very likely

[PastPrime]

In the prologue of vol 9, Kyon states this:


I already know aliens, as well as a time-traveling senior. I also cannot deny
that the male whom I talked to the most often throughout the past year is an
esper as well. But...
On that day, that moment, when Haruhi made that introduction speech that
shocked all of 1-5, of all the groups she mentioned there is still one that has
not appeared.

Sliders.

Even though I do not wish for such people to exist, and the only one who
would feel that they are missing is that girl, now that we have all been
successfully promoted, the first-year seat is left empty...


If that is the case: what if by coincident it's actually Sasaki, the reason I'm thinking it because how the ALPHA and BETA timeline also trigger by two factor:
The meeting with Suzumiya and the SOS Brigade's Member, prior to the creation of the timeline.
After the "call" to kyon.


The timelines appeared to split just before the call to Kyon, with the ALPHA phone call being from someone who's voice he didn't recognise who refered to him as Senpai. Then, in the alpha timeline, when the first year students came to the SOS DAN meeting, Kyon counted 10 and then suddenly there were 11 (if I remember the numbers correctly), and one girl took great interest in Haruhi's speach. She seemed familiar to Kyon, but he was sure that he had never met her. If there is a slider then it is probably her. And, while the timelines are labeled Alpha and Beta, we can't be sure that they actually happened in that order.

[X207]

personally i think that story alpha will be chosen as it corresponds to the previous novels of haruhi holding power. unless the author lied about kyon i believe that 11th person is a slider. cant wait for vol 10 to be translated when it comes out

[KeitaroNagato]

That's right. I first got the idea from Asimov's Foundation books. Compared to the other factions Golan Travize seemed like a minor player in the beginning, that is until the last pages of the book. I wonder if Kyon will ever doubt his choices just like Trevize did once.




So maybe two time lines are showing two different stories. One which belongs to kyon and the other one to, let's say' anti-Kyon...although not very likely

I'm waiting for vol10 to come out, just see if it fits any, or maybe not.... :)

[KeitaroNagato]

The timelines appeared to split just before the call to Kyon, with the ALPHA phone call being from someone who's voice he didn't recognise who refered to him as Senpai. Then, in the alpha timeline, when the first year students came to the SOS DAN meeting, Kyon counted 10 and then suddenly there were 11 (if I remember the numbers correctly), and one girl took great interest in Haruhi's speach. She seemed familiar to Kyon, but he was sure that he had never met her. If there is a slider then it is probably her. And, while the timelines are labeled Alpha and Beta, we can't be sure that they actually happened in that order.

personally i think that story alpha will be chosen as it corresponds to the previous novels of haruhi holding power. unless the author lied about kyon i believe that 11th person is a slider. cant wait for vol 10 to be translated when it comes out

The 11 person, is what got me thinking about how all the possibilities can be connected to Haruhi and Sasaki incidents. There are too many possibilities, to actually convey to proper communication may be lost in the translation :) hahaha

I can only see, how each possibilities be manifested in existence.

in sense....

UNIQUE

:)

The series are getting better and better....!!!!!! Can't wait for Vol 10.

[KeitaroNagato]

That's right. I first got the idea from Asimov's Foundation books. Compared to the other factions Golan Travize seemed like a minor player in the beginning, that is until the last pages of the book. I wonder if Kyon will ever doubt his choices just like Trevize did once.




So maybe two time lines are showing two different stories. One which belongs to kyon and the other one to, let's say' anti-Kyon...although not very likely

:)
I had to add this... There are two timelines coexisting, Kyon is in the middle, just say for ALPHA timeline - Haruhi (since there is no meeting with the SAKAKI CREW), and the slider (the 11 person/girl that pop out of nowhere).

While BETA timeline - Sasaki (the meeting of the SAKAKI CREW had happend), and Yuki got sick.

Somewhere there was a similar incident on both actually had a similiar experience, I would like you check in the ALPHA about what did Koizumi and Kyon did after the meeting with the SOS 10....eerrrr.... 11 (kume!!!) hopefuls/participants/. And, on the BETA what did Koizumi and Kyon did, before both Haruhi and Kyon realized that Nagato wasn't there. Check out the similarities.

:)

Thank you
Domo arigato

[shotna13]

Ok...so in both cases they're playing Ranju and the text is almost the same. Could it be a hint?
And one thing i don't understand:



Why do the first-years try to apply for the SOS Brigade in Alpha but not in Beta. Is it because of the 11th mysterious girl? Or because Haruhi rushes out of the classroom instead of helping Kyon with his math problems. The rest of the differences i pretty much understood them. For instance why Yuki got sick. In Beta Kyon also calls Yuki informing her about the meeting on Sunday, Yuki probably sends Emiri to keep on eye on Kyon, Kuyoh figures out who Emiri is and then decides to take action against both her and Yuki.
All these questions hurt my head. We should just wait for the next volumes.

[KeitaroNagato]

Ok...so in both cases they're playing Ranju and the text is almost the same. Could it be a hint?
And one thing i don't understand:



Why do the first-years try to apply for the SOS Brigade in Alpha but not in Beta. Is it because of the 11th mysterious girl? Or because Haruhi rushes out of the classroom instead of helping Kyon with his math problems. The rest of the differences i pretty much understood them. For instance why Yuki got sick. In Beta Kyon also calls Yuki informing her about the meeting on Sunday, Yuki probably sends Emiri to keep on eye on Kyon, Kuyoh figures out who Emiri is and then decides to take action against both her and Yuki.
All these questions hurt my head. We should just wait for the next volumes.

I do believe is some type to hint, here are the reasons:
ALPHA timeline was totally different with the actions of each SOS crew members, I...ummm... had to read both timelines 4 times!!!
The reason is there was something that I couldn't grasp... I felt in the Alpha timeline it connoted to certains interractions of the SOS crew as if in sence they are more closer as family then a group being close friends.

BETA timeline was more unpleasant with the interractions between the crew, especially after class when Suzumiya kept on going out, the interraction between Kyon and Haruhi was less, seems more colder, this was hinted from when kyon was in the SOS class and the following actions occured

I saw the smile on Koizumi that looked like it really came from his heart and
only had a single thought. What an untimely bastard. If you came alone we
could have shared some secret talk. Now that you are sticking so close to
Haruhi, it is totally impossible to talk now. I originally planned to share my
thoughts on Tachibana Kyoko with him, but that guy would have probably
heard it from somewhere by now. It may not even be surprising even if I told
him Kimidori-san is working at the shop. It is very rare to find a person with
so little excitement in his life.......


Kyon ask Koizumi:
"What did Haruhi and you do before going here?"
"Nothing much." Just like a seal swimming in the sea, Koizumi slid into the
clubroom and closed the door without changing his expression of
nonchalance:
"We only happened to meet on the walkway on the first level, we are
definitely not carrying out some secret mission behind your back."


I have this feeling this timeline the interractions between is off, as if something is making their interraction between them off. There is a possibility that Haruhi knows about the meeting between Kyon and Sasaki crew. The reason is that it somewhat seems she is avoiding him, (when he came in the class, and all day she just run around the school), and walking in with Koizumi to the SOS HQ.
Now... remember this timeline imposed mostly on Kyon and the Sasaki Crew.
If you recall, when he came in the room Nagato wasn't there, it didn't really matter at that point; Mikuru and Haruhi and Koizumi where there but the interraction as I felted it was off... way off.

BUT!!!

Something happend during that timeline that made the SOS crew to be more closer as they should be.... give you a hint... THE GAME.

It's was that whiched mirrow the ALPHA timeline, that was the trigger.

Let me give you this concept:

Have you ever heard about Dr. Michio Kaku, Andre Linde or Max Tegmark?

They are all scientists, I like the Linde explication on parallel universe even though all the other scientists are more or less the same.

THE BUBBLE UNIVERSE:
I'll use the wiki version.
Bubble theory posits an infinite number of open multiverses, each with different physical constants.

Counter-intuitively, these universes are farther away than even the farthest universe in our open multiverse.

The formation of our universe from a "bubble" of a multiverse was proposed by Andre Linde. This Bubble universe theory fits well with the widely accepted theory of cosmic inflation. The bubble universe concept involves creation of universes from the quantum foam of a "parent universe." On very small scales, the foam is frothing due to energy fluctuations. These fluctuations may create tiny bubbles and wormholes. If the energy fluctuation is not very large, a tiny bubble universe may form, experience some expansion like an inflating balloon, and then contract and disappear from existence. However, if the energy fluctuation is greater than a particular critical value, a tiny bubble universe forms from the parent universe, experiences long-term expansion, and allows matter and large-scale galactic structures to form.


Think how we stack CDROMS on top of each other, each cd represents a universe, they all have there own unique laws and realities, therefore they are different from each other. But... If one universe is just say "stronger", it will/may cause a "punch through" the other ones. Since at that point in time and space, both universe share the same reality... but a unique one that either one does not apply too. Say A +B =C, A is different from B, and B is different from A. But C is totally different from A and B, cause C is a creation from A and B, but is not as A and B. Get it?

And that was the GAME:

Well that is just my theory. I believe the real timeline or the Stronger one is what causes both timeline to share a similar experience. The question is which timeline?
And what/who caused it? I have a hunch!!! but I will see if it fits in Vol 10.

Enjoy the thoughts

Thank you
DOMO ARIGATO

[Kristen]

Has there been any news on Volume 10 at all? I mean, it's been almost 4 months since it was delayed...

[KeitaroNagato]

Has there been any news on Volume 10 at all? I mean, it's been almost 4 months since it was delayed...

The Surprise of Haruhi Suzumiya
涼宮ハルヒの驚愕

ANIME NEWS NETWORK

stated on 2007-15-07

...."A note on Kadokawa's website has confirmed that Suzumiya Haruhi no Kyōgaku (The Surprise of Haruhi Suzumiya), the ninth sequel to The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya light novel that started the franchise, has been pushed from June 1 to an unlisted date "due to various circumstances."

Not sure what are the various cirmumstances, I currently searching through the web engine in Japanese, so far every it just speculations due to publishing. I'll let you know if anything else comes up. Even the webpage of Kadokawa's website doesn't say much.

[PastPrime]

On the possibility of Kyon having some kind of powers. I would say that either his power is being immune to Haruhi's powers or else Haruhi does not want him to have any special powers. Because, if he is not immune to her powers and she wanted him to have some special power then he would have some special power.

[Silasj]

On the possibility of Kyon having some kind of powers. I would say that either his power is being immune to Haruhi's powers or else Haruhi does not want him to have any special powers. Because, if he is not immune to her powers and she wanted him to have some special power then he would have some special power.

Maybe Haruhi just wants to find out that life is good enough without aliens, espers and time travelers, however her deepest with is clouded by her more childish wishes ;)

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

On the possibility of Kyon having some kind of powers. I would say that either his power is being immune to Haruhi's powers or else Haruhi does not want him to have any special powers. Because, if he is not immune to her powers and she wanted him to have some special power then he would have some special power.

Like other Kyonist theories, you are completely ignoring the events of "Endless 8".

If Kyon is immune to her powers, he would never have been stuck in a time loop for that many times.

[PastPrime]

Like other Kyonist theories, you are completely ignoring the events of "Endless 8".

If Kyon is immune to her powers, he would never have been stuck in a time loop for that many times.

I would hardly forget endless 8. I ment on a personnal level. i.e. she could not give him special powers like she did with Mikuro's contacts or when she changed the pigeons at the Temple white. Not that he could not get caught in a timeloop or some other change that she created. However, I think that she really wants him to be normal.

[KeitaroNagato]

On the possibility of Kyon having some kind of powers. I would say that either his power is being immune to Haruhi's powers or else Haruhi does not want him to have any special powers. Because, if he is not immune to her powers and she wanted him to have some special power then he would have some special power.

Maybe Haruhi just wants to find out that life is good enough without aliens, espers and time travelers, however her deepest with is clouded by her more childish wishes ;)

Like other Kyonist theories, you are completely ignoring the events of "Endless 8".

If Kyon is immune to her powers, he would never have been stuck in a time loop for that many times.

I would hardly forget endless 8. I ment on a personnal level. i.e. she could not give him special powers like she did with Mikuro's contacts or when she changed the pigeons at the Temple white. Not that he could not get caught in a timeloop or some other change that she created. However, I think that she really wants him to be normal.

There is tons of Kyonist around the world that are stating many theories about the true nature or the relationship between him and Haruhi.... yet this could be applied to the SOS Brigade.

A good friend of my told me this, I may or may not agree with it but this is how the conversation when:

"Keitaro!!! do you remember about the first part of the vol 1 of the novel?"
"huh? what about it?"
"Well, if you noticed, Kyon wants to believe in aliens, ESPERs, time travelers and what not. After he went to high school, he drop those childish delusions and accepted a normal grayish life...."
"Yep, I remember. What do you ask?"
"Well, his life became colorful when Haruhi come in the picture... someone that he never expected to have such or share the same notions as him.... AND... as we know she has feelings for him inside, but outside she is totally different then what Kyon expected. You see, don't you find it that, he actually found his ...better half?"
"What are you talking about?!? Kyon didn't found his better half, more likely she kinda found him. Yes, I do admit that she and he shares the same wavelength, but that doesn't mean that he found her. And... Haruhi more likely found him, remember she asked for aliens, ESPERs, time travelers and slider to come with her and..........Wait a minute...???? Sliders....... So far I came to that conclusion about that 11th person in Vol10. What are you trying to imposed? That Kyon is like HARUHI!!!???"
"No, no, no..... I don't think he is like her. But I believe deep inside of her that she wanted someone, her better half... by saying that.... don't you think she may have give him something besides being Kyon....."

Well, that what he told me. I don't think there is a possibily that Haruhi may granted him powers. I believe that he has powers all the long.
They are:

"TRUST"
"RELIABLE"
"COMMITMENT"
"ENDURANCE"
"KINDNESS"
"LOYAL"
"KEENNESS"

Those qualities, are powers each of us have that makes us human beings. In sense, Kyon is just a regular person, but has more to offer as a person and/or as a friend.

Thank you
Domo Arigato


ありがとう

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I would hardly forget endless 8. I ment on a personnal level. i.e. she could not give him special powers like she did with Mikuro's contacts or when she changed the pigeons at the Temple white. Not that he could not get caught in a timeloop or some other change that she created. However, I think that she really wants him to be normal.

Still, that just mean you are following Itsuki's theory.

As I mentioned in the past, the "Haruhi made everything happen" view is the easiest to comprehend because it is the simplest. But that doesn't mean it was right.

From recent novel events, we know that in a non-magical way...Haruhi did create the timetravellers... by writing the handbook on time traveling theories and get it into the hands of the boy who would one day invent the time machine.

But that certainly doesn't mean Haruhi spontaneously generated people to her liking. She could have, and would have had not Snow White canceled her plans. It's not that Haruhi wanted Kyon to be normal; Haruhi wanted Kyon to be Kyon. You are not really in love with someone, unless you are willing to accept your partner for who he/she is.

[PastPrime]

Still, that just mean you are following Itsuki's theory.

As I mentioned in the past, the "Haruhi made everything happen" view is the easiest to comprehend because it is the simplest. But that doesn't mean it was right.

From recent novel events, we know that in a non-magical way...Haruhi did create the timetravellers... by writing the handbook on time traveling theories and get it into the hands of the boy who would one day invent the time machine.

But that certainly doesn't mean Haruhi spontaneously generated people to her liking. She could have, and would have had not Snow White canceled her plans. It's not that Haruhi wanted Kyon to be normal; Haruhi wanted Kyon to be Kyon. You are not really in love with someone, unless you are willing to accept your partner for who he/she is.
She wanted the cat to be special and he talked, she wanted white pigeons and they turned white, she wanted cherry blossums and the trees bloomed out of season. If she wanted Kyon to have special powers then he would have special powers. She just wants him to be himself. And I don't think that any of those things require Itsuki's theory. There was no need for her to spontaniously generate people. She just did things that, as your spoiler indicates, brought the people she was seeking to her.

[Silasj]

There is tons of Kyonist around the world that are stating many theories about the true nature or the relationship between him and Haruhi.... yet this could be applied to the SOS Brigade.

A good friend of my told me this, I may or may not agree with it but this is how the conversation when:

"Keitaro!!! do you remember about the first part of the vol 1 of the novel?"
"huh? what about it?"
"Well, if you noticed, Kyon wants to believe in aliens, ESPERs, time travelers and what not. After he went to high school, he drop those childish delusions and accepted a normal grayish life...."
"Yep, I remember. What do you ask?"
"Well, his life became colorful when Haruhi come in the picture... someone that he never expected to have such or share the same notions as him.... AND... as we know she has feelings for him inside, but outside she is totally different then what Kyon expected. You see, don't you find it that, he actually found his ...better half?"
"What are you talking about?!? Kyon didn't found his better half, more likely she kinda found him. Yes, I do admit that she and he shares the same wavelength, but that doesn't mean that he found her. And... Haruhi more likely found him, remember she asked for aliens, ESPERs, time travelers and slider to come with her and..........Wait a minute...???? Sliders....... So far I came to that conclusion about that 11th person in Vol10. What are you trying to imposed? That Kyon is like HARUHI!!!???"
"No, no, no..... I don't think he is like her. But I believe deep inside of her that she wanted someone, her better half... by saying that.... don't you think she may have give him something besides being Kyon....."

Well, that what he told me. I don't think there is a possibily that Haruhi may granted him powers. I believe that he has powers all the long.
They are:

"TRUST"
"RELIABLE"
"COMMITMENT"
"ENDURANCE"
"KINDNESS"
"LOYAL"
"KEENNESS"

Those qualities, are powers each of us have that makes us human beings. In sense, Kyon is just a regular person, but has more to offer as a person and/or as a friend.

Thank you
Domo Arigato


ありがとう

I fully agree with you. Kyon is just a normal human being, which is exactly what Haruhi is looking for, she just has a hard time accepting it.

私の馬はすしを食べます

[Seiryuu]

From what I know and what I've heard of all of this, I think Kyon's probably every bit as much a god as Haruhi is. The description of Haruhi's power suggests that the little things automatically align to her will. For instance, the baseball position selection is a "random" set-up, which results in people being routed directly to where Haruhi wants them to be; or, the likelihood of Kyon sitting in front of Haruhi twice is very, very slim. However, this would suggest that any time Haruhi wants something relating to such random events, the die will always roll in her favor. However, some of these chances turn in Kyon's favor, like the first Saturday outing. Kyon got to go with the people he wanted to talk to at that time, much to Haruhi's dissatisfaction. It will all come out soon, I expect, in the next couple volumes. For now, I'll just go with what the characters have said, that Haruhi appears to have power, and Kyon seems to be "chosen" and thus somewhat empowered himself, or perhaps Kyon is the real center. I just hope the stuff in the recent volumes doesn't turn out in the utterly cliche pattern of internal conflict creating a shadow self.

[KeitaroNagato]

I fully agree with you. Kyon is just a normal human being, which is exactly what Haruhi is looking for, she just has a hard time accepting it.

私の馬はすしを食べます

I agree with you 100%

Haruhi is having a hard time accepting it, but at the same time she seems more adapted to it.

In vol1, when she created a "new universe", it was just her and Kyon there, even to her she surprised. She questioned "why just you and me?". Well we all know, that at the end of the volume, she believes that it was "a nightmare..", just a dream. But as the events continued in that "new dimension", she was excited, thrilled, and as happy any person can be. Kyon wanted to be back in the "original world", she questioned him why. Until he realized the hints from Nagato and Mikuru Asahina (big). REMEMBER:..... " You know, I really like you in a ponytail........I don't know when, but since then, I can't stop thinking of you in a ponytail. I think that suits you best"

And look what happened the next day.... when Kyon came in the classroom... :)

This one of the examples that I remember, when Haruhi actually showed some type of respond for Kyon, even though she think it was a just a dream. Kyon responded back to her by stating....

"Say, Haruhi."
"What?"
I said to Haruhi, whose eyes were still staring outside,
"You look great in that ponytail."

There are other examples, of how Haruhi actually excepts Kyon as Kyon. Anyone please let me know in which Vol's and what examples are there.

Thank you

Domo Arigato

ありがとう

[ellifeedn]

I've been looking at the last several pages of posts. Why are there so many theories in the novel/manga thread? If you wanted to post theories, why don't you make a theories thread and post there? I'm not talking directly to anyone here, it's just in a general sense.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

From what I know and what I've heard of all of this, I think Kyon's probably every bit as much a god as Haruhi is. The description of Haruhi's power suggests that the little things automatically align to her will. For instance, the baseball position selection is a "random" set-up, which results in people being routed directly to where Haruhi wants them to be; or, the likelihood of Kyon sitting in front of Haruhi twice is very, very slim. However, this would suggest that any time Haruhi wants something relating to such random events, the die will always roll in her favor. However, some of these chances turn in Kyon's favor, like the first Saturday outing. Kyon got to go with the people he wanted to talk to at that time, much to Haruhi's dissatisfaction. It will all come out soon, I expect, in the next couple volumes. For now, I'll just go with what the characters have said, that Haruhi appears to have power, and Kyon seems to be "chosen" and thus somewhat empowered himself, or perhaps Kyon is the real center. I just hope the stuff in the recent volumes doesn't turn out in the utterly cliche pattern of internal conflict creating a shadow self.

So, how do you explain "Endless 8" then? The many, many times of Kyon failing to escape Haruhi's time prison?

[Silasj]

So, how do you explain "Endless 8" then? The many, many times of Kyon failing to escape Haruhi's time prison?

Can I ask a newb question.. What are the "endless 8"?
I only watched the anime, will I find out now that I'm reading the novels, or is it a term you guys made up?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Can I ask a newb question.. What are the "endless 8"?
I only watched the anime, will I find out now that I'm reading the novels, or is it a term you guys made up?

"Endless 8" is a short story in Volume 5 of the novels. I personally believe it is the strongest in-story evidence against any "God-Kyon is controlling Haruhi" theories.

Put it simply, Kyon was in a position where he was trying to undo something Haruhi did, yet he kept failing, over and over again. And he did not enjoy it at all.

[KeitaroNagato]

"Endless 8" is a short story in Volume 5 of the novels. I personally believe it is the strongest in-story evidence against any "God-Kyon is controlling Haruhi" theories.

Put it simply, Kyon was in a position where he was trying to undo something Haruhi did, yet he kept failing, over and over again. And he did not enjoy it at all.

Yep, I love endless 8, that was a great concept of time, and space twisted.... for those who have not read it yet, I'm not going to say much... you will like it.

In other news, since this is based on the novels and manga concepts and themes, any concepts and themes do applied to it as long is related to the novels and manga. Now that is said... I will continue :)

Does anyone knows and/or what are the exact timeline between vol1 and vol8? Different sites has different chronological order.

I'm just following whatever other sites states about it. If anyone can either direct me to "proper site" that I can check it out. Or maybe put it here,but please leave it as a spoiler so others don't wished to see it. It will be appreciated very much.

Thank you
Domo Arigato


ありがとう

[CrowKenobi]

...Does anyone knows and/or what are the exact timeline between vol1 and vol8? Different sites has different chronological order.How about AnimeSuki? Did you check this thread?

All about Suzumiya Haruhi (涼宮ハルヒ) (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31059)

Look for Kinny Riddle's posts... ;)

:cool:

[KeitaroNagato]

How about AnimeSuki? Did you check this thread?

All about Suzumiya Haruhi (涼宮ハルヒ) (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31059)

Look for Kinny Riddle's posts... ;)

:cool:

No I didn't... my bad :)

I was checking around online, and came upon many, but they had it listed differently.
I actually went to the site where you suggested can it was very helpful... (I BOW HUMBLY TO YOU :) )

Thanks I, actually like how its done.

Thank you
Domo arigato

ありがとう

[KeitaroNagato]

How about AnimeSuki? Did you check this thread?

All about Suzumiya Haruhi (涼宮ハルヒ) (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31059)

Look for Kinny Riddle's posts... ;)

:cool:

Thanks again "2 thumbs up!!!"

It covers only up to VOL 8, Kiddy Riddle rocks with the explanations and the timelines.

Now, heres a question, remember when Koizumi was drawing on the blackboard about the loop of the timeline. When in the Suzumiya Haruhi Volume 4 - The Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi, Kyon noticed the change in the reality, he was talking about the sideways figure 8. It occurred to me that in mathematics that means "infinite". Do you think the problems in vol9 is because of that "loop"?

Just wondering, after all its relating to the novels. :)

Oh!!! I almost forgot; someone told me that I can check out the mangas online? is that true?

Thank you
Domo arigato

ありがとう

[fallenangelash]

another really n00b question, but the novels havent been licenced and released in america yet, have they?
any info would be great:P

[GyroidFanatic]

another really n00b question, but the novels havent been licenced and released in america yet, have they?
any info would be great:P
Not yet, but they will be. I'm expecting it to be that announcement they were talking about being on the 4th DVD.

[fallenangelash]

Not yet, but they will be. I'm expecting it to be that announcement they were talking about being on the 4th DVD.

thanks for that

[Meiaminkbell]

This is a scanlation newbie question, but where, off IRC, can I find scanlations of the manga of Haruhi Suzumiya? I have already found one through searching, but have been unable to find any since then. Can anyone direct me to a BT or other downloader website where I can manually find the translated versions of this manga, assuming more than one chapter has been translated? Help would be much appreciated as always, thank you for your time.

[FatPianoBoy]

To be honest, the manga kinda blows. I recommend grabbing the novels before the license is announced.

[Meiaminkbell]

Both would be great, as I am a big fan of pictures. :D

[KeitaroNagato]

To be honest, the manga kinda blows. I recommend grabbing the novels before the license is announced.

Both would be great, as I am a big fan of pictures. :D

I understand that Kadokawa Shoten published two manga adaptations of the Haruhi Suzumiya light novel series. But there is no indication of translation in english format, it doesn't matter since I read fluently in japanese but the point is this : Both manga adaptations were published in Shounen Ace, but the earlier one was canceled after the first volume. So that said, maybe there is no adaptation of the manga in English.

I'm understanding the fact is, that the manga adaptation is still too early, so far the Haruhi Suzumiya lightbook series is far more superior then the manga. Its the epicenter of why many people around the world love Haruhi Suzumiya universe. I'm not too sure if the manga can do justice to the lightbook. It like that old saying, " if its isn't broke, don't fix it..."

Thank you.
Domo arigato

ありがとう

[AcroDave]

This is a scanlation newbie question, but where, off IRC, can I find scanlations of the manga of Haruhi Suzumiya?

Here ya go. You'll be sorry though:

www.onemanga.com/The_Melancholy_of_Haruhi_Suzumiya/ (http://www.onemanga.com/The_Melancholy_of_Haruhi_Suzumiya/)


I'm not too sure if the manga can do justice to the lightbook.

It would take a great manga to do justice to the novel, and also stand proudly alongside the amazing anime. Sadly, this adaptation falls flat on all levels. Pathetic art, and for some reason they also butcher the story (change all kinds of things in the plot for no reason). Frankly, most of the fan-created Dōjinshi I come across are superior!

Here's a random example, starring our favorite human interfaces: www.sibousuiteijikoku.com (http://www.sibousuiteijikoku.com/yukinnko001.html)


Cheers! ~AD

[typhonsentra]

Hey, thanks a lot.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

hmm, just finished book nine.. interesting read, wont spoil any of the story. I don't know if it was a translation thing but it was an odd set up to read, chapter 2 and part of 3 was broken into (slightly confusing at first) sections, alpha 1 -> 6 and beta 1 -> 6. Anyway people who read it will see it no doubt. Still was a decent read, can't wait for book ten.

[Sol Falling]

I'm in the middle of rereading the novels for the third time, and I took a break halfway through volume 6 to rewatch the anime for the sixth time, and I noticed something.

Does anybody else remember? Episode 13 (achronological), where Haruhi starts talking about "realizing the insignificance of your existance". Apparently this happened in grade 6, coincidentally three years ago (well a bit more actually, assuming they've just started high school in grade 10).

On the issue of Kyonism. Presuming that what we've been told in Volume 9 beta is true, god/whatever powers were originally held by Sasaki, and then somehow transferred over to Haruhi. The proposal is that Kyon is a 'key' or 'focus lens' which awakens these powers within "weird girls" in a non-arbitrary manner. By non-arbitrary I mean he needs to be at least aware of or in proximity to other candidates for the power to be transferred.

However, a contradiction lies within. We can assume with a fair amount of certainty that past!Kyon, as in the 6th grade Kyon who was friends with Sasaki, never interacts with past!Haruhi. Furthermore, we can also assume that the Data Explosion, Time Quake, and Esper Awakening which Nagato, Mikuru, and Koizumi mention correspond with the awakening of Haruhi's power. Specifically, the fact that the time quake had the effect of limiting any travel before that point in time means that present!Kyon cannot interact with pre-god/whatever Haruhi, logically a prerequisite for transferring that power.

So here's my speculation. The trigger for Haruhi's awakening, rather than being related to Kyon, was a direct result of her personal revelation of insignificance. As for Sasaki's connection to that power, well, we only learn of the anti-SOS Brigade in the Beta half of volume 9, correct? I think it's been established that Alpha and Beta are seperate, parallel dimensions. So (I'm basically ripping off some of the earlier theories in this thread) maybe Beta exists as a consequence of something in Alpha, and in Alpha Sasaki never possessed any kind of power at all. In any case we still have reason to be sceptical about the claim that Sasaki is or was a god-like being like Haruhi.

So yeah, basically I'm throwing my hat in with the Kyon-is-a-normal-guyists, as well as suggesting that there was probably some significance to the speech Haruhi made a day before she decided to reset the world.

[KeitaroNagato]

Thanks X207, I had to re-read the first the ALPHA parts, then the BETA parts last. I have a wierd feeling that, in the BETA 4 chapter when Tachibana Kyoko said:

"We firmly believe the powers Suzumiya-san are holding onto now
originally belonged to Sasaki-san. However there must be a mistake
somewhere that caused it to transfer to another person. And therefore, I hope
to change things back to how it was. In that case, the world will definitely
move in a much better direction."

How can the powers be suddenly transfer to Haruhi? Maybe I'm missing something but I don't think this timeline is cause by Sasaki, because Kyoko clearly stated that the powers must be transfer back to Sasaki. In that just who has the ability to cause a parallel time line, well we all know Haruhi can create the universe that way she fits it, but there are two persons that comes to mind.... Nagato and Kuyoh. I suspect its Kuyoh for the following reasons:

1. Yuki again got sick again just like in Snowy Mountain Syndrome.
2. Yuki just like haruhi can create, manipulate, and destroy dimensions and matter, but unlike haruhi, Yuki cannot create the universe. Yuki shows that in The Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi.
3.Itsuki Koizumi and Yuki acknowledge that The Canopy Domain is behind the incident that happend in Snowy Mountain Syndrome. Therefore, there is only one character that is able to create another timeline that overlaps the real timeline, is Kuyoh.

In conclusion: Kyoko, would be telling/asking/demanding that the powers should transfer back to Sasaki, even it shows that Sasaki has some abilities to read minds, (like Koizumi and Haruhi) but other wise... she is just a normal person. And all those coincidental meetings with Kyon, is not Sasaki doings. I suspect its the Sneering Bastard pullings the strings, The Intrigues of Suzumiya Haruhi (vol 7) Clearly stated Mikuru from eight days in the future, was kidnap by both Sneering Bastard and Kyoko, it clearly shows that they were incognito/following them from afar. Sasaki was not even involved.

Well, I truly believe is Kuyoh. Maybe I'm wrong,I had to re-read volume 1 to 8 again (GOD!!! I love Nagaru Tanigawa's work :D I could re-read over and over...hahaha ), just in case I miss something.

What do you think? It is Kuyoh...right?


Thank you
Domo Arigato

In the prologue of vol 9, Kyon states this:


I already know aliens, as well as a time-traveling senior. I also cannot deny
that the male whom I talked to the most often throughout the past year is an
esper as well. But...
On that day, that moment, when Haruhi made that introduction speech that
shocked all of 1-5, of all the groups she mentioned there is still one that has
not appeared.

Sliders.

Even though I do not wish for such people to exist, and the only one who
would feel that they are missing is that girl, now that we have all been
successfully promoted, the first-year seat is left empty...


If that is the case: what if by coincident it's actually Sasaki, the reason I'm thinking it because how the ALPHA and BETA timeline also trigger by two factor:
The meeting with Suzumiya and the SOS Brigade's Member, prior to the creation of the timeline.
After the "call" to kyon.

Even though its POV of kyon, but it just way to coincident that its has to be involved with Sasaki.

Then there is the last Thought.

When Haruhi met Sasaki the first time, she (Sasaki) introduced her self as a "Close Friend", as Koizumi pointed/hinted this may have caused the sudden Close Space to appear more frequently. As this may be also a trigger for the 2 timeline to be created. The reasons are the following:
The second time SOS Brigade met, Sasaki had Kyoko, Kuyoh and Sneering Bastard with her. That may be the pointing gun.
Heres another way to put it.

SOS BRIGADE = SASAKI CREW

Haruhi Suzumiya = Sasaki
Koizumi = Kyoko
Nagato = Kuyoh
Mikuru = Sneering Bastard
Kyon

Each one correspond to each other, if the interpretation is correct... each one are rivals, but not Kyon.
Kyon is the only one that really does not have a rival, in some case he should be in the middle. And this added by the fact that Haruhi as pointed by Koizumi, his overload of "part-time" work he has to do, cause the Haruhi's mental instability. coincidentally started from the first meeting. On the second meeting, it was "what the camel back broke...", causing Haruhi to be annoyed or even just for arguing sake... hurt. As we all know she has deep feelings for Kyon, after all she it the one that chooses him. In some case, if she has got hurt, and not aware of what it may have caused, this new type of emotional imbalance (remember most of her life she was just a lonely kid) may actually caused the timeline to split in 2, one is the real one while the other one is her... lets say the "Hurt" one. In this case it involving Kyon to be in the middle. Perhaps, it like when someone wants you to be understanding about the sensitivity of how someone that most of their lives was actually alone, in an act of "GOD" (well just think of that for a moment ...), deep inside Kyon is there with her (not only in the PAST/PRESENT time frames). In some way it's like Haruhi given Kyon a chance to walk both path and he must discover the reason what is given to him. Such as that old saying... "each road must go somewhere". Haruhi can create multiple timelines, just like when Kyon and her were together in a new dimension, while the other one... Koizumi with the help of the "Organization" able to penetrate on the one haruhi just create, but for a small time. If you think about, as he said the old dimension is still in existance, while the new old is just created, "if Haruhi is merciful... the one old will continue with the new...." VOL 1. In that case, there was 2 dimensions in existances!!! All that by Haruhi powers. What if this Timeline is actually Haruhi as well....?

Too many theories... hahahaha

Enjoy the thoughts :)

Thank you
Domo arigato

I do believe is some type to hint, here are the reasons:
ALPHA timeline was totally different with the actions of each SOS crew members, I...ummm... had to read both timelines 4 times!!!
The reason is there was something that I couldn't grasp... I felt in the Alpha timeline it connoted to certains interractions of the SOS crew as if in sence they are more closer as family then a group being close friends.

BETA timeline was more unpleasant with the interractions between the crew, especially after class when Suzumiya kept on going out, the interraction between Kyon and Haruhi was less, seems more colder, this was hinted from when kyon was in the SOS class and the following actions occured

I saw the smile on Koizumi that looked like it really came from his heart and
only had a single thought. What an untimely bastard. If you came alone we
could have shared some secret talk. Now that you are sticking so close to
Haruhi, it is totally impossible to talk now. I originally planned to share my
thoughts on Tachibana Kyoko with him, but that guy would have probably
heard it from somewhere by now. It may not even be surprising even if I told
him Kimidori-san is working at the shop. It is very rare to find a person with
so little excitement in his life.......


Kyon ask Koizumi:
"What did Haruhi and you do before going here?"
"Nothing much." Just like a seal swimming in the sea, Koizumi slid into the
clubroom and closed the door without changing his expression of
nonchalance:
"We only happened to meet on the walkway on the first level, we are
definitely not carrying out some secret mission behind your back."


I have this feeling this timeline the interractions between is off, as if something is making their interraction between them off. There is a possibility that Haruhi knows about the meeting between Kyon and Sasaki crew. The reason is that it somewhat seems she is avoiding him, (when he came in the class, and all day she just run around the school), and walking in with Koizumi to the SOS HQ.
Now... remember this timeline imposed mostly on Kyon and the Sasaki Crew.
If you recall, when he came in the room Nagato wasn't there, it didn't really matter at that point; Mikuru and Haruhi and Koizumi where there but the interraction as I felted it was off... way off.

BUT!!!

Something happend during that timeline that made the SOS crew to be more closer as they should be.... give you a hint... THE GAME.

It's was that whiched mirrow the ALPHA timeline, that was the trigger.

Let me give you this concept:

Have you ever heard about Dr. Michio Kaku, Andre Linde or Max Tegmark?

They are all scientists, I like the Linde explication on parallel universe even though all the other scientists are more or less the same.

THE BUBBLE UNIVERSE:
I'll use the wiki version.
Bubble theory posits an infinite number of open multiverses, each with different physical constants.

Counter-intuitively, these universes are farther away than even the farthest universe in our open multiverse.

The formation of our universe from a "bubble" of a multiverse was proposed by Andre Linde. This Bubble universe theory fits well with the widely accepted theory of cosmic inflation. The bubble universe concept involves creation of universes from the quantum foam of a "parent universe." On very small scales, the foam is frothing due to energy fluctuations. These fluctuations may create tiny bubbles and wormholes. If the energy fluctuation is not very large, a tiny bubble universe may form, experience some expansion like an inflating balloon, and then contract and disappear from existence. However, if the energy fluctuation is greater than a particular critical value, a tiny bubble universe forms from the parent universe, experiences long-term expansion, and allows matter and large-scale galactic structures to form.


Think how we stack CDROMS on top of each other, each cd represents a universe, they all have there own unique laws and realities, therefore they are different from each other. But... If one universe is just say "stronger", it will/may cause a "punch through" the other ones. Since at that point in time and space, both universe share the same reality... but a unique one that either one does not apply too. Say A +B =C, A is different from B, and B is different from A. But C is totally different from A and B, cause C is a creation from A and B, but is not as A and B. Get it?

And that was the GAME:

Well that is just my theory. I believe the real timeline or the Stronger one is what causes both timeline to share a similar experience. The question is which timeline?
And what/who caused it? I have a hunch!!! but I will see if it fits in Vol 10.

Enjoy the thoughts

Thank you
DOMO ARIGATO

I'm in the middle of rereading the novels for the third time, and I took a break halfway through volume 6 to rewatch the anime for the sixth time, and I noticed something.

Does anybody else remember? Episode 13 (achronological), where Haruhi starts talking about "realizing the insignificance of your existance". Apparently this happened in grade 6, coincidentally three years ago (well a bit more actually, assuming they've just started high school in grade 10).

On the issue of Kyonism. Presuming that what we've been told in Volume 9 beta is true, god/whatever powers were originally held by Sasaki, and then somehow transferred over to Haruhi. The proposal is that Kyon is a 'key' or 'focus lens' which awakens these powers within "weird girls" in a non-arbitrary manner. By non-arbitrary I mean he needs to be at least aware of or in proximity to other candidates for the power to be transferred.

However, a contradiction lies within. We can assume with a fair amount of certainty that past!Kyon, as in the 6th grade Kyon who was friends with Sasaki, never interacts with past!Haruhi. Furthermore, we can also assume that the Data Explosion, Time Quake, and Esper Awakening which Nagato, Mikuru, and Koizumi mention correspond with the awakening of Haruhi's power. Specifically, the fact that the time quake had the effect of limiting any travel before that point in time means that present!Kyon cannot interact with pre-god/whatever Haruhi, logically a prerequisite for transferring that power.

So here's my speculation. The trigger for Haruhi's awakening, rather than being related to Kyon, was a direct result of her personal revelation of insignificance. As for Sasaki's connection to that power, well, we only learn of the anti-SOS Brigade in the Beta half of volume 9, correct? I think it's been established that Alpha and Beta are seperate, parallel dimensions. So (I'm basically ripping off some of the earlier theories in this thread) maybe Beta exists as a consequence of something in Alpha, and in Alpha Sasaki never possessed any kind of power at all. In any case we still have reason to be sceptical about the claim that Sasaki is or was a god-like being like Haruhi.

So yeah, basically I'm throwing my hat in with the Kyon-is-a-normal-guyists, as well as suggesting that there was probably some significance to the speech Haruhi made a day before she decided to reset the world.


I believe the following may be this:

Kyon is in 2 timeline as everyone else:
One timeline is deals with his relastionship with Haruhi and the SOS crew. Yet, the other one deals with his relationship and/or story with Sasaki. If Kyon was doing this, then he would have known what is going on, after all he is doing both timeline Right? But since there are 2 Kyons and both are not aware on whats is going on what each other, therefore its not Kyon doing it. Awareness is the key, and if it's Kyon doing it, wouldn't you think that Koizumi would have sense that there is something going on? Or even Kyon might have a visit from himself to let him know that something wrong, after all he should have the power to split two different timelines, and why not get a visit from himself....

Listen, I do understand that vol9 is the most abstract story that is dealing with two different pathway. But what is the final pathway? Try to read one timelines all and then the other one separately, there is one scenario that is similar to each other, and that is the pivotal part of both. At that point, each timelines goes dramatically discreetly opposite from one another.

Remember: Kyon is Kyon, just a cool dude. 100% human.

Haruhi may be a "God", in fact is she did created the universe three years ago is a fact from Koizumi. Data for auto-evolution created out of nothing is a fact from Nagato. A time disturbance that seems to engulf the whole universe, that no one can travel farther back in the past, as if Time and Space just started, a fact by Mikuru. They all gather together by the wished of Haruhi.

The fact is Kyon had the courage to be friendly with her in class, remember most of her middle school life until high school she was the "outcast". Don't you think deep inside of her, she already accepted that she is in love with him? Remember on the Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi? Read what she did with him.

It takes courage to actually love someone, love is a universal language that transcend above any obstacle, it has its own essence, purpose, and life. Maybe Haruhi picked Kyon for the same reasons and more.

Thank you

Domo Arigato

ありがとう

[Sol Falling]

mm, I did read the whole thread before posting, thanks, so I'd already seen your earlier posts :P. I am also aware of the two-dimension nature of volume 9, which is what lead to the main point I made above: We can safely believe that Sasaki possessed powers or can possess powers similar to Haruhi's in the Beta dimension, but we have no evidence that this is true in the Alpha dimension.

Anyway, someone also mentioned the ontology thread in here so I went and read it. Doing so, I've come upon another theory, this time about the nature of Mikuru's time travel. That thread is over a year old though so I'll just post my theory here.

From Mikuru's explanation in the anime and volume 1 of the novels, we learn that Time is not continuous, rather being composed of discrete "planes". From volume 7 of the novels (I think; it might be earlier or later) we learn that the device Mikuru uses to time-travel is called the TPDD, which stands for "Time Plane Destruction Device". Also remember how, just after Kyon first met future Asahina-san, Yuki described the time travellers' method of time-travelling as primitive and imperfect in that it "left a wake". Considering these clues together, I'm surprised somebody hasn't put two and two together earlier: time-travelling in the Haruhi-verse is practically spelt out for us.

We can obviously infer from the name of the TPDD that destruction of time planes occurs; actually, that's the entire mode of travel. Basically, the TPDD would in essence erase all the time planes between the point in time where it exists and an intended destination. The two time planes would then be right next to each other, allowing a time traveller to simply step from one to another. However, seeing as time is discontinuous, the originating time plane would still exist as well. The missing time planes would be the "wake" or disruption Yuki mentions.

5. Since the originating time plane (the one in the future) continues to exist, no time paradoxes occur where altering the past changes the future. However, those destroyed time planes probably require some method of regeneration. I'm thinking that as time progresses from the point the time travellor arrived at (assuming they are travelling to the past), it generates new time planes based on the state of the destination time plane. In this case, eventually those time planes would advance enough to reach the original plane the time travellor came from, at which point the original plane would be overwritten. The only way to prevent overwriting would be to make sure that all the previous time planes correspond with the necessary history to generate precisely the original time plane.

Time travel to the future would occur in essentially the same way, except that the time-traveller would then be waiting for the time planes to catch up to their time.

The only issue I'm not quite certain on is the rate of the regeneration of time planes. It can't be instantaneous, because that delay is necessary for the prevention of Time paradoxes. The idea that makes the most sense is that time progresses at an identical rate for both the origin and destination time planes, which would essentially mean that one would have to wait exactly the amount of time travelled to the past for overwriting to occur. This has several implications, though:

For one, this would imply that one can't travel back in time to a point later than they have already travelled to, because the time plane at that point wouldn't exist yet. This isn't a big deal, though, 'cause the time travellors could simply wait until enough regeneration has occured for that point to exist. For example, if one travelled back in time to January 1st from June 1st and then returned, one would not be able to return to January 7th until June 7th. Comparing to the time-travel instances in the novels, I think this fits, but this post is getting too long as it is so I won't bother comparing.

The second issue is what I'm not sure about. The thing is, if both the origin and destination time planes advance at the same rate, then theoretically a time travellor in the future never has to worry about the plane they are currently in being overwritten. Because they are always moving forward as well, although their past self might be overwritten by an alternate timeline, that is completely irrelevent to the current self. I am also wondering how this scenario could create the need for time travellers to go to the past in the first place, unless they are somehow waging a time war with some other time travellers (which I guess they are, but it's too complicated for me to think of right now. Actually, maybe Fujiwara's faction of time travellers don't even use the same method, and thus have different rules).

Anyway, I'll shut up now with a final bit of speculation about the nature of Haruhi's "time quake". A plausible obstacle for preventing travel past a point in the past would be lack of any time planes to arrive at. Thus arise some possibilities: one, Haruhi destroyed every time plane before the time of her awakening, so that there is no "first plane" for new past time planes to regenerate from; two, Haruhi destroyed a huge chunk of time planes directly before her awakening, so that it would take (presumably) millions of years for time to regenerate to that point; or three, Haruhi shifted the linear progession of time planes laterally, which has the same affect as one except that there exists an alternate timeline parallel to the one everybody is in. Two and three would be the options most congruent with the description "time quake".

Edit:

Damn I'm wordy. Well, I just realized something else, so this post is about to get even longer

Starting at paragraph 5 above, I make the assuption that each time plane has a "locus" of sorts that represents it's proper place in time. This provided a buffer of empty "time loci" protecting the origin time plane. I assumed that this was necessary to prevent time paradoxes. Actually, though, it isn't, because the history of the origin time plane is protected since it's also advancing in time and generating new time planes itself. So in effect, after travelling to the past a timeline would look like this (where + indicates that that time plane is generating or overwriting new planes):

2005-2006-2007+5289+

This diagram shows 2007 about to overwrite 5289 with 2008, but the existance of 5289's reality will be safe because it is just about to generate 5290 anyway.

In this case, travelling to the future would merely be stepping from the past time plane to the one directly in front of it, without involving any time plane destruction at all. This also means that it becomes impossible for one to return to the origin point of time in the future; once one returns to the future, an equal amount of time would have passed as the time spent in the past.

So basically, this edit contradicts the stuff in paragraphs 6 and 7 and invalidates explanation number two of Haruhi's time quake, while paragraphs 8 and 9 are still basically valid. I guess there's an assumption in this theory too, though, in that I'm assuming that the overwriting/generation rate of time planes at both the destination and origin points in time are the same. Still a better assumption than loci, though.

[PastPrime]

mm, I did read the whole thread before posting, thanks, so I'd already seen your earlier posts :P. I am also aware of the two-dimension nature of volume 9, which is what lead to the main point I made above: We can safely believe that Sasaki possessed powers or can possess powers similar to Haruhi's in the Beta dimension, but we have no evidence that this is true in the Alpha dimension.


Since the alternate SOS Dan exists in both alpha and beta timelines it would be logical to assume that the other ESPer thinks that Saski has god powers in both timelines. I really think that she is the only one who does. The interface and time traveler joined because it helps their cause.

I think that they both have power, or represent opposite sides of the same power. Haruhi is caos and Sasaki is order. And Kyon bridges the gap between them.

[KeitaroNagato]

Since the alternate SOS Dan exists in both alpha and beta timelines it would be logical to assume that the other ESPer thinks that Saski has god powers in both timelines. I really think that she is the only one who does. The interface and time traveler joined because it helps their cause.

I think that they both have power, or represent opposite sides of the same power. Haruhi is caos and Sasaki is order. And Kyon bridges the gap between them.

I love your statement, and I agree 100%.

Somehow Kyon is the bridge between the ALPHA and BETA statement. I believe that is a choice that Kyon must make, before one of the timelines dominates the continue Time Phase. As previously stated, this may be the cause either by either Sasaki and/or Haruhi.... would it be fun that it was both Nagato causing one timeline while Kuyoh is causing the other.

[KeitaroNagato]

mm, I did read the whole thread before posting, thanks, so I'd already seen your earlier posts :P. I am also aware of the two-dimension nature of volume 9, which is what lead to the main point I made above: We can safely believe that Sasaki possessed powers or can possess powers similar to Haruhi's in the Beta dimension, but we have no evidence that this is true in the Alpha dimension.

Anyway, someone also mentioned the ontology thread in here so I went and read it. Doing so, I've come upon another theory, this time about the nature of Mikuru's time travel. That thread is over a year old though so I'll just post my theory here.

From Mikuru's explanation in the anime and volume 1 of the novels, we learn that Time is not continuous, rather being composed of discrete "planes". From volume 7 of the novels (I think; it might be earlier or later) we learn that the device Mikuru uses to time-travel is called the TPDD, which stands for "Time Plane Destruction Device". Also remember how, just after Kyon first met future Asahina-san, Yuki described the time travellers' method of time-travelling as primitive and imperfect in that it "left a wake". Considering these clues together, I'm surprised somebody hasn't put two and two together earlier: time-travelling in the Haruhi-verse is practically spelt out for us.

We can obviously infer from the name of the TPDD that destruction of time planes occurs; actually, that's the entire mode of travel. Basically, the TPDD would in essence erase all the time planes between the point in time where it exists and an intended destination. The two time planes would then be right next to each other, allowing a time traveller to simply step from one to another. However, seeing as time is discontinuous, the originating time plane would still exist as well. The missing time planes would be the "wake" or disruption Yuki mentions.

5. Since the originating time plane (the one in the future) continues to exist, no time paradoxes occur where altering the past changes the future. However, those destroyed time planes probably require some method of regeneration. I'm thinking that as time progresses from the point the time travellor arrived at (assuming they are travelling to the past), it generates new time planes based on the state of the destination time plane. In this case, eventually those time planes would advance enough to reach the original plane the time travellor came from, at which point the original plane would be overwritten. The only way to prevent overwriting would be to make sure that all the previous time planes correspond with the necessary history to generate precisely the original time plane.

Time travel to the future would occur in essentially the same way, except that the time-traveller would then be waiting for the time planes to catch up to their time.

The only issue I'm not quite certain on is the rate of the regeneration of time planes. It can't be instantaneous, because that delay is necessary for the prevention of Time paradoxes. The idea that makes the most sense is that time progresses at an identical rate for both the origin and destination time planes, which would essentially mean that one would have to wait exactly the amount of time travelled to the past for overwriting to occur. This has several implications, though:

For one, this would imply that one can't travel back in time to a point later than they have already travelled to, because the time plane at that point wouldn't exist yet. This isn't a big deal, though, 'cause the time travellors could simply wait until enough regeneration has occured for that point to exist. For example, if one travelled back in time to January 1st from June 1st and then returned, one would not be able to return to January 7th until June 7th. Comparing to the time-travel instances in the novels, I think this fits, but this post is getting too long as it is so I won't bother comparing.

The second issue is what I'm not sure about. The thing is, if both the origin and destination time planes advance at the same rate, then theoretically a time travellor in the future never has to worry about the plane they are currently in being overwritten. Because they are always moving forward as well, although their past self might be overwritten by an alternate timeline, that is completely irrelevent to the current self. I am also wondering how this scenario could create the need for time travellers to go to the past in the first place, unless they are somehow waging a time war with some other time travellers (which I guess they are, but it's too complicated for me to think of right now. Actually, maybe Fujiwara's faction of time travellers don't even use the same method, and thus have different rules).

Anyway, I'll shut up now with a final bit of speculation about the nature of Haruhi's "time quake". A plausible obstacle for preventing travel past a point in the past would be lack of any time planes to arrive at. Thus arise some possibilities: one, Haruhi destroyed every time plane before the time of her awakening, so that there is no "first plane" for new past time planes to regenerate from; two, Haruhi destroyed a huge chunk of time planes directly before her awakening, so that it would take (presumably) millions of years for time to regenerate to that point; or three, Haruhi shifted the linear progession of time planes laterally, which has the same affect as one except that there exists an alternate timeline parallel to the one everybody is in. Two and three would be the options most congruent with the description "time quake".

Edit:

Damn I'm wordy. Well, I just realized something else, so this post is about to get even longer

Starting at paragraph 5 above, I make the assuption that each time plane has a "locus" of sorts that represents it's proper place in time. This provided a buffer of empty "time loci" protecting the origin time plane. I assumed that this was necessary to prevent time paradoxes. Actually, though, it isn't, because the history of the origin time plane is protected since it's also advancing in time and generating new time planes itself. So in effect, after travelling to the past a timeline would look like this (where + indicates that that time plane is generating or overwriting new planes):

2005-2006-2007+5289+

This diagram shows 2007 about to overwrite 5289 with 2008, but the existance of 5289's reality will be safe because it is just about to generate 5290 anyway.

In this case, travelling to the future would merely be stepping from the past time plane to the one directly in front of it, without involving any time plane destruction at all. This also means that it becomes impossible for one to return to the origin point of time in the future; once one returns to the future, an equal amount of time would have passed as the time spent in the past.

So basically, this edit contradicts the stuff in paragraphs 6 and 7 and invalidates explanation number two of Haruhi's time quake, while paragraphs 8 and 9 are still basically valid. I guess there's an assumption in this theory too, though, in that I'm assuming that the overwriting/generation rate of time planes at both the destination and origin points in time are the same. Still a better assumption than loci, though.

There is a possibility that 2 time phases were split into to continues timelines. I not ruling out the TDPP may have caused both existances, but it seems possible culprit when Kyon traveled back in time to fix the current reality.

If time phases separates from an original focus point, both timelines exists with their own possibilities, while the original focus point is still in existence. It like a single road suddenly separates onto 2 different path. At the point of being separated, the diver can make their own decision on which road to take.

If we use the TDPP as the cause, then it would be at the time when Kyon traveled at that point to repair the current reality.

Just a theory :)

[ellifeedn]

Who knows maybe the author will land a bomb on us with a gamma timeline:heh:.

[KeitaroNagato]

Who knows maybe the author will land a bomb on us with a gamma timeline:heh:.

Hahahahaha!!!!

Perhaps, it was Koizumi doing. Maybe he is the culprit. He just needed Kyon to be occupy hahahaha :)

Seriously, there are so many possibilities of who, why and what. I do agree with <Sol Falling> statement on the Time Phase theory.
There are many other theories on vol9, I cannot wait to see how it's covey finally in vol10.

I've read so many possibilities, they all have great points in the how, but not the who(s) or the why(s), which can be anyone.

Just say for argument sake, Kyon by meeting Sasaki has caused the ripped in the Time Phases or the two timelines. It's possible, because of his previous relationship with Sasaki, and his current relationship with Haruhi got his own "idea", how each interactions would be. I don't remember where I read the statement from but in some cases. Sasaki represent the opposite of what Haruhi is. Maybe, Kyon by his own reflection of who he was in the past and who he is now may has somehow "ripped" the Timelines. mmmmm? This is for all you Kyonist out there :)

But as anyone knows, there is so many theories, facts that points out to any possibilities.

Thank you
Domo arigato
ありがとう

[Vulcannis]

We can assume with a fair amount of certainty that past!Kyon, as in the 6th grade Kyon who was friends with Sasaki, never interacts with past!Haruhi.

According to ß-5, Kyon's first meeting with Sasaki was in 3rd year middle school, that is 9th grade. So that's 2 years after Haruhi got her powers.

[KeitaroNagato]

According to ß-5, Kyon's first meeting with Sasaki was in 3rd year middle school, that is 9th grade. So that's 2 years after Haruhi got her powers.

That's true, the universe change 3 years ago, he met Sasaki on his last year of middle school before going to Senior school. Now I understand whose who....

Lets hope it plays out in vol10 :)

Yeah!!! Cheers!!! Compai!!!!

Thank you
domo arigato

[PastPrime]

With volume 10 being called "The Astonishment of Suzumiya Haruhi", it sounds very much like they are going to tell her the truth in at least one of the timelines. I wonder if we are getting close to the end of the series.

[FatPianoBoy]

According to ß-5, Kyon's first meeting with Sasaki was in 3rd year middle school, that is 9th grade. So that's 2 years after Haruhi got her powers.
But Kyon actually met Haruhi before he met Sasaki. At least from Haruhi's perspective.

[KeitaroNagato]

With volume 10 being called "The Astonishment of Suzumiya Haruhi", it sounds very much like they are going to tell her the truth in at least one of the timelines. I wonder if we are getting close to the end of the series.

But Kyon actually met Haruhi before he met Sasaki. At least from Haruhi's perspective.

Hopefully , it will not end there, there is so many directions where the story could go. But being as great as it is now, I don't believe it with end. It's way too popular and the phenomenon is greatly increasing around the world. For god sake!!! There are people doing the Haruhi Dance in their own weddings :)

On Haruhi perpective, yes but she does not know its Kyon at the time (John Smith anyone :) ). POV by Kyon he just met her on this reality as well as in the past on the same age as he is now. In his own POV, he remember meeting Sasaki 2 years ago, but meeting Haruhi 3 years ago, does not count because he did not meet her 3 years younger. Meeting Sasaki when he was younger, and Haruhi when he grew older.

Thank you
Domo arigato

if other wise, let me know. I just love all the inputs on this volume. :)

[FatPianoBoy]

On Haruhi perpective, yes but she does not know its Kyon at the time (John Smith anyone :) ). POV by Kyon he just met her on this reality as well as in the past on the same age as he is now. In his own POV, he remember meeting Sasaki 2 years ago, but meeting Haruhi 3 years ago, does not count because he did not meet her 3 years younger. Meeting Sasaki when he was younger, and Haruhi when he grew older.

The idea is that, if Kyon is some kind of focusing lens for omnipotence, then it would have activated Haruhi first seeing as he met Haruhi earlier in the timeline.

In fact, if this is the case (not sure if it is right now), maybe Kyon awakened Haruhi's powers four years ago, transferred them to Sasaki when he met her, and then back to Haruhi when he met her in North High.
It's just rampant speculation, and I'm not even sure I believe, so take it as you will.

[Harusuki]

hey im gonna ask this super noob qns...

whr to buy chinese version of the manga/novel in sg?

[PastPrime]

The idea is that, if Kyon is some kind of focusing lens for omnipotence, then it would have activated Haruhi first seeing as he met Haruhi earlier in the timeline.

In fact, if this is the case (not sure if it is right now), maybe Kyon awakened Haruhi's powers four years ago, transferred them to Sasaki when he met her, and then back to Haruhi when he met her in North High.
It's just rampant speculation, and I'm not even sure I believe, so take it as you will.

It was my understanding that she created the time blockage with her powers and no one could travel past it. Since they traveled to shortly before Kyon met Haruhi it means that she already had her powers when he helped her. And, she would not have been able to design the alien symbol if she did not have powers and she did that before she met him.

[FatPianoBoy]

Ooh, good point. Scratch that theory.

[KeitaroNagato]

It was my understanding that she created the time blockage with her powers and no one could travel past it. Since they traveled to shortly before Kyon met Haruhi it means that she already had her powers when he helped her. And, she would not have been able to design the alien symbol if she did not have powers and she did that before she met him.

That's right, I didn't thought of that, I was under the impression that Kyon met Haruhi when he was older, while Sasaki when he was younger.

Come to think of it, when Haruhi realized about how insignificant the world is after she when to the baseball stadium, that is when the world became different from her perspective. In sense, that when she recreated the "universe" as she see it.

Cool, <PastPrime>. Now I see how this is going. The truth is Haruhi had her powers during that time when Kyon met with her. Now as an adult, don't you think that everything is now going her way...?
Well if she made the universe, would it be that SOS Brigade vs Sasaki Crew is something she created out of her "boredom". Maybe Sasaki even though she is Kyon old friend, by seeing Sasaki with Kyon.... Haruhi kinda created her (Sasaki) as a threat - an equal opponent, an enemy ...that may take Kyon.... in sense by accident... that is why the 2 timelines are overlapping each other?

In other words, if she created the universe, by seeing Kyon and Sasaki together, mistakenly created her (Sasaki) as an equal opposite of her, because if this the timeline splits due to her emotional reaction. One having her as the main focus on Kyon's life, while the other is Sasaki as the main focus of Kyon's life.

Thank you
Domo arigato

[CrowKenobi]

In other words, if she created the universe, by seeing Kyon and Sasaki together, mistakenly created her (Sasaki) as an equal opposite of her, because if this the timeline splits due to her emotional reaction. One having her as the main focus on Kyon's life, while the other is Sasaki as the main focus of Kyon's life.

Thank you
Domo arigatoOn that thought, what if when Haruhi came into her power, she somehow split herself into two people? (and inadvertently created two overlapping timelines which is what is preventing the time travelers from traveling further into the past)

Just a thought I had... :D

:cool:

[KeitaroNagato]

On that thought, what if when Haruhi came into her power, she somehow split herself into two people? (and inadvertently created two overlapping timelines which is what is preventing the time travelers from traveling further into the past)

Just a thought I had... :D

:cool:

That is a possibility, it also falls in this category:

"Creation is always happening. Every time an individual has a thought, or a prolonged chronic way of thinking, they're in the creation process. Something is going to manifest out of those thoughts." - Rev. Michael Bernard Beckwith

As I understand, if Haruhi is an omnipotent person, that has no knowledge of her being, inadvertently created the universe has she believe her reality should be. With that as a process, she is "God". Has such essence of the universe is, then she has always been in the past, in the present and the future. If that is the case, then she is the universe itself, seeing and manifesting what it is in the past, present and future. If this statement holds merit, then "God" could have created Sasaki as a point in time, why not in the future why 2 years before Haruhi met Kyon? In such way it could explain that Sasaki is actually the equal opposite of Haruhi, which in sense it is Haruhi. After all "God" is everywhere, either in the past , present or future, she always is and always will be. This represent that Haruhi created Sasaki, in her image liking to Kyon as an opposite.After all, the essence of or the thoughts of "god" is everywhere creation is manifested.

Thank you
Domo arigato

[ClockWorkAngel]

Heh I've been lurking for a while. Being quite a fan of Haruhi, I have my own theories about the type of time travel the series has.

Let us imagine a line, in which one end signifies the past and one which signifies the future (Present for the time travelers)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig1.jpg

Now let's say Time Traveler A wants to go to the past.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig2.jpg

Upon arriving the past to accomplish some foretold event. This causes a point in which there is a disturbance of the time lime. Let's call this Point Break A

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig-3.jpg

Let's say in a twist of fate Time Traveler A fails. We mark the point in which this failure occurs Point Break B.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig-4.jpg

Now we see that the point of failure and the results are isolated from one another because of Point Break A. We have this Frame effect Mikuru had explained.

Now if such a failure occurred which normally would cause a change in the future it would make the time travel Mikuru explained impossible. However by isolating the very presence of Time Traveler A's path the rest of the timeline both future and past is considered safe. Now to fill the gap. In order to keep the timeline stable an alternate timeline is used in supplement to the failed one. We call this space Restart A.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig-5.jpg

By this figure the theory states that the new supplemented piece of the time line can be accessed by Time Travelers. Also it should be noted that because the Time Traveler A's Path is isolated from the timeline the Time Traveler will not be lost. Infact it would seem that s/he did not even made the journey (This makes a trial and error method of solving problems with time traveling impossible) This makes the possibility of success possible even though failure may have happen several times. I call this the FATE FACTOR. The FATE FACTOR can be explained as such;

"Since it is destined to be, it must be."

Because it is destined to be the timeline will automatically loop until a satisfactory result is achieved. The FATE FACTOR is also the reason for the name of this theory; the FATE THEORY.

However there is much contradiction which can be used against the FATE FACTOR. Ones in which man time Mikuru (Big) has stressed the point of how everything must be done or all is lost. This can be actually be explained by the FATE FACTOR. Every time there is ever an error in the actions of Kyon or the rest of the SOS-Dan it is assumed that period of time is isolated and replaced. Therefore no matter how many times failure occurs the timeline reverts back to the point in which Kyon has a set of instructions (As seen in vol 7). Therefore repeating until Kyon succeeds.

Let's say Time Traveler A is going to try again, trying to solve the problem. But now perhaps there is another organization who sent its own time traveler to sabotage Time Traveler A's efforts. That time traveler is Time Traveler B. We now see both of their paths.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig-6.jpg

If you might remember Point Break A is where their journeys begin. Now let's say this time Time Traveler A succeeds yet Time Traveler B comes after Time Traveler A has already left back for home.
Now Time Traveler B has sabotaged the efforts of Time traveler A. S/he leaves for home and at that time causes Break Point C.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig7.jpg

Now there are two possibilities. Either Time Traveler B is destined to succeed which would require Time Traveler A to return and either stop Time Traveler B during the period s/he is in between Break Point B and C. Or s/he must go back after Time Traveler B leaves for home. There are many possibilities.

However we know that endless amount of loops can occur as in seen in Endless Eight and there is no effect on the fabric of time. Which means that universes can be supplemented AND loop. This is what I call the ENDLESS FATE FACTOR. Which would be almost impossible to trigger unless your omnipotent (Like Haruhi). The difference is that the FATE FACTOR does not occur at all, in fact no replacement is used at all, instead time loops, allow Human Interfaces like Yuki to record such time, as no isolation actually takes place.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig8.jpg

However in order to explain why Yuki could record all of the loops we must acknowledge that the memory reset is applicable to every form of sentient life however we can either assume that either 1. Yuki is not affected by this because she is not in that range of included life or 2. She has some sort of protection against outside forces that would other wise manipulate her memory. It is most likely that 2. is the one which is occurring.

Now how this goes with the alternate universes. What if the FATE FACTOR did not occur and we have 2 separate timelines at a single point.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig9.jpg

Now as we can see there are now 2 separate timelines from a single one. At no point is either one truly isolated and removed. this means that there must be a trigger to both Break Point A and also what others have theorized as a trigger in order to shift the balance of the timeline having one being consumed by the other, returning the timeline into a stable form.

To summarize here are the laws of the FATE THEORY.

i. Time Moves in frames.
ii. The size of these frames differ drastically.
iii. A frame is created when there is a disturbance in the time line through means of time travelling and other means.
iv. Time is able to repair itself in a sense by creating restart areas.
v. However time is also able to loop indefinitely
vi. Time can also split into separate timelines which have the same origin and eventually the same end.
vii. However when either v or vi occurs there must be a trigger.

Now the real question is what IS the trigger? That’s for you to decide!

[KeitaroNagato]

Heh I've been lurking for a while. Being quite a fan of Haruhi, I have my own theories about the type of time travel the series has.

Let us imagine a line, in which one end signifies the past and one which signifies the future (Present for the time travelers)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig1.jpg

Now let's say Time Traveler A wants to go to the past.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig2.jpg

Upon arriving the past to accomplish some foretold event. This causes a point in which there is a disturbance of the time lime. Let's call this Point Break A

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig-3.jpg

Let's say in a twist of fate Time Traveler A fails. We mark the point in which this failure occurs Point Break B.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig-4.jpg

Now we see that the point of failure and the results are isolated from one another because of Point Break A. We have this Frame effect Mikuru had explained.

Now if such a failure occurred which normally would cause a change in the future it would make the time travel Mikuru explained impossible. However by isolating the very presence of Time Traveler A's path the rest of the timeline both future and past is considered safe. Now to fill the gap. In order to keep the timeline stable an alternate timeline is used in supplement to the failed one. We call this space Restart A.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig-5.jpg

By this figure the theory states that the new supplemented piece of the time line can be accessed by Time Travelers. Also it should be noted that because the Time Traveler A's Path is isolated from the timeline the Time Traveler will not be lost. Infact it would seem that s/he did not even made the journey (This makes a trial and error method of solving problems with time traveling impossible) This makes the possibility of success possible even though failure may have happen several times. I call this the FATE FACTOR. The FATE FACTOR can be explained as such;

"Since it is destined to be, it must be."

Because it is destined to be the timeline will automatically loop until a satisfactory result is achieved. The FATE FACTOR is also the reason for the name of this theory; the FATE THEORY.

However there is much contradiction which can be used against the FATE FACTOR. Ones in which man time Mikuru (Big) has stressed the point of how everything must be done or all is lost. This can be actually be explained by the FATE FACTOR. Every time there is ever an error in the actions of Kyon or the rest of the SOS-Dan it is assumed that period of time is isolated and replaced. Therefore no matter how many times failure occurs the timeline reverts back to the point in which Kyon has a set of instructions (As seen in vol 7). Therefore repeating until Kyon succeeds.

Let's say Time Traveler A is going to try again, trying to solve the problem. But now perhaps there is another organization who sent its own time traveler to sabotage Time Traveler A's efforts. That time traveler is Time Traveler B. We now see both of their paths.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig-6.jpg

If you might remember Point Break A is where their journeys begin. Now let's say this time Time Traveler A succeeds yet Time Traveler B comes after Time Traveler A has already left back for home.
Now Time Traveler B has sabotaged the efforts of Time traveler A. S/he leaves for home and at that time causes Break Point C.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig7.jpg

Now there are two possibilities. Either Time Traveler B is destined to succeed which would require Time Traveler A to return and either stop Time Traveler B during the period s/he is in between Break Point B and C. Or s/he must go back after Time Traveler B leaves for home. There are many possibilities.

However we know that endless amount of loops can occur as in seen in Endless Eight and there is no effect on the fabric of time. Which means that universes can be supplemented AND loop. This is what I call the ENDLESS FATE FACTOR. Which would be almost impossible to trigger unless your omnipotent (Like Haruhi). The difference is that the FATE FACTOR does not occur at all, in fact no replacement is used at all, instead time loops, allow Human Interfaces like Yuki to record such time, as no isolation actually takes place.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig8.jpg

However in order to explain why Yuki could record all of the loops we must acknowledge that the memory reset is applicable to every form of sentient life however we can either assume that either 1. Yuki is not affected by this because she is not in that range of included life or 2. She has some sort of protection against outside forces that would other wise manipulate her memory. It is most likely that 2. is the one which is occurring.

Now how this goes with the alternate universes. What if the FATE FACTOR did not occur and we have 2 separate timelines at a single point.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/rougeone/Fig9.jpg

Now as we can see there are now 2 separate timelines from a single one. At no point is either one truly isolated and removed. this means that there must be a trigger to both Break Point A and also what others have theorized as a trigger in order to shift the balance of the timeline having one being consumed by the other, returning the timeline into a stable form.

To summarize here are the laws of the FATE THEORY.

i. Time Moves in frames.
ii. The size of these frames differ drastically.
iii. A frame is created when there is a disturbance in the time line through means of time travelling and other means.
iv. Time is able to repair itself in a sense by creating restart areas.
v. However time is also able to loop indefinitely
vi. Time can also split into separate timelines which have the same origin and eventually the same end.
vii. However when either v or vi occurs there must be a trigger.

Now the real question is what IS the trigger? That’s for you to decide!

It's the TDPP Phase theory :)

Well let see what vol 10 will bring.

Thank you
Domo arigato

[KeitaroNagato]

Does anyone remember which volume is the Mystery Island? That is well the SOS Brigade to the island. I just purchased Vol1 to Vol3 the DVD, and I was comparing to the lighbook novels. I first listen them in Japanese and then in English. Not sure if this applies to the novels, but I was wondering if anyone remember which volume was that? I know that is only about the novels and mangas but how does it compared? So far it pretty damn close, but there was something that I noticed in that particular part...

Remember about ending, what Koizumi and Kyon where talking about...?
What was that "shadow" they where discussing?

I'm trying to find it at this moment, did I missed something in the novel?

Thank you
Domo arigato

[Sol Falling]

Lone Island Syndrome would be in book 3.

As for the shadow, that wasn't mentioned in the novel. In fact, there was a major difference in the way the anime and the novels did Lone Island Syndrome: that would be: in the novels, Kyon confronts Koizumi about what happened, hears the supposed "truth", and then guesses that it was all an act because he doesn't believe it. Kyon and Haruhi didn't fall down the cliff after going outside, so Kyon and Haruhi didn't get to discuss what had happened amongst themselves: essentially, in the novels, Haruhi's role is reduced.

So why did Haruhi and Kyon fall down the cliff? Well, that would be because Haruhi saw a shadow, right? So the shadow only exists in the anime.

The other difference between the novel and the anime would be the presence of imouto-chan (well, actually, there's quite a few more, but those don't affect the mystery part). Imouto played a part in tricking Arakawa away from the door so that Kyon could force Tamaru-san to confess, which never happened in the novel. Also, Imouto tried to eat some food early, allowing Kyon to notice that someone had eaten with a fork, which provided Kyon with some more evidence that it was all an act.

[fallenangelash]

where can you find translated versions of the novels?

[EXEs]

Originally posted by: fallenangelash
where can you find translated versions of the novels?

Online, I is a frequent visitor for them: http://project.baka-tsuki.net/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi
I think it's down at the moment, it won't load on my computer.

[KeitaroNagato]

Lone Island Syndrome would be in book 3.

As for the shadow, that wasn't mentioned in the novel. In fact, there was a major difference in the way the anime and the novels did Lone Island Syndrome: that would be: in the novels, Kyon confronts Koizumi about what happened, hears the supposed "truth", and then guesses that it was all an act because he doesn't believe it. Kyon and Haruhi didn't fall down the cliff after going outside, so Kyon and Haruhi didn't get to discuss what had happened amongst themselves: essentially, in the novels, Haruhi's role is reduced.

So why did Haruhi and Kyon fall down the cliff? Well, that would be because Haruhi saw a shadow, right? So the shadow only exists in the anime.

The other difference between the novel and the anime would be the presence of imouto-chan (well, actually, there's quite a few more, but those don't affect the mystery part). Imouto played a part in tricking Arakawa away from the door so that Kyon could force Tamaru-san to confess, which never happened in the novel. Also, Imouto tried to eat some food early, allowing Kyon to notice that someone had eaten with a fork, which provided Kyon with some more evidence that it was all an act.


Thanks <Sol Falling> :)

I'm grateful to you, I will reread vol3 again. Oh!!!! remember in vol 9 that Koizumi was very tired because more "Close circle" have appeared. But the SHINJIN are not doing anything, thats because it happends after when Haruhi met Sasaki.
I Originally thought that the SHINJINs were "gods-people" only created to destroy whatever it's surrounds in the close circle reality. But this kinda does not applies to Haruhi because the SHINJINs are just idling. If they are idling, instead the Organization destroying the SHINJINs, what don't them keep a watch on them, after all the SHINJINs are not a threat at the moment.

[oompa loompa]

im a bit new here so forgive me if this was asked before.. but whats the status of the novels right now, as in, is the next one presumably the last one etc etc?

[ClockWorkAngel]

Right now volume's release was delayed for unknown reasons (to us anyways) and I'm not sure if it will be the last arc (I myself hope it isn't!) I have a theory for the reason for Sasaki powers and her general re introduction into Kyon's life.

I believe that Sasaki represents all the insecurities of Haruhi. What if somehow subconsciously Haruhi is aware of her powers, but only to the extent that she occasionally create things. Now what if because of her insecurities she reintroduced a person who Kyon has already known before in this case Sasaki and give her powers in somewhat parallel to her own. This gives Kyon the option to leave Haruhi with the knowledge that the world wouldn’t destroy itself perhaps of Sasaki’s intervention. Haruhi might want to know, without all the obligations of just keeping the world around as it is, does Kyon really love her? Is he just staying with her to keep the world in the balance or is there actual feelings? She had subconsciously removed the factor of omnipotence in their relationship (somewhat) and thus left Kyon with two chances a “normal” calm and “stable” girl; Sasaki and Haruhi, wonder who he would pick.

If this is going to be the last novel then hopefully by the last book should he choose Haruhi (we all know he will!) it would confirm to Haruhi that his reason for staying with her is not related anything she can do but rather what she means to him.

[Sol Falling]

actually, the Haruhi novels have moved over from project.baka-tsuki.net to www.baka-tsuki.net. The site isn't down.

Anyway, I don't believe the next novel will be the last in the series because it seems fairly certain that it will be a plot-heavy, single story piece. Tanigawa has left many hints about various activities the SOS Brigade has done or will do, such as White Day, Hanami (first time), and other small things. Right now, we've got a cliffhanger where the SOS Brigade is threatened, so to resolve that the next novel should return them to stability. However, stability as we think of it is a terrible way to end the series:

Stability would refer to the SOS Brigade remaining together and having fun doing non-world changing things. This is a bad way to end the series for two reasons: if they're still having fun, then of course we readers would like to hear about those fun things, right? The other issue is realism.

Kyon has mentioned this a couple times in the books. What is Haruhi planning to do after High School? Mikuru will graduate after this year. Furthermore, it is unrealistic and, in terms of character development, regressive for the SOS Brigade to continue into University. Haruhi's character development has been all about learning to enjoy normal life again (as pointed out in Volume 8, Haruhi is returning to her pre-middle-school cheerful personality). It has also been about opening up to others, so she can't just keep depending on her SOS Brigade as a crutch for social interactions indefinately. Indeed, although Haruhi's relationship with Kyon has continued to grow, the submissiveness Yuki, Mikuru, and Koizumi demonstrate stagnates any development on that end at all. I don't think Haruhi can really consider Yuki/Mikuru/Koizumi friends until they leave and start doing things on their own.

What I'm saying is, the story can't end in a satisfying matter until the SOS Brigade breaks up of it's own will. Although Haruhi's mentality has indeed been growing in a direction where she will not need the SOS Brigade to have fun anymore, there is still no good reason for her to give it up. My guess is that the trigger would be the end of second year, with the graduation of Mikuru. Haruhi will acknowledge the necessity of Mikuru's departure, will declare that the SOS Brigade cannot continue without her, and proceed to focus on getting into a university with Kyon while still occasionally having outings with all her friends. Life will go on.

It's hard to imagine a lifetime. I've barely started, myself. I question the longevity of Haruhi and Kyon's relationship (after all, she is still just a girl, and he just a boy), and I wonder whether or not Haruhi would allow herself to be bound by post-secondary education at all. Haruhi is still a remarkable person even without her powers, so I want to see what she can accomplish, in this world, along with the rest of us. I doubt this is within the scope of the author though.

[KeitaroNagato]

actually, the Haruhi novels have moved over from project.baka-tsuki.net to www.baka-tsuki.net. The site isn't down.

Anyway, I don't believe the next novel will be the last in the series because it seems fairly certain that it will be a plot-heavy, single story piece. Tanigawa has left many hints about various activities the SOS Brigade has done or will do, such as White Day, Hanami (first time), and other small things. Right now, we've got a cliffhanger where the SOS Brigade is threatened, so to resolve that the next novel should return them to stability. However, stability as we think of it is a terrible way to end the series:

Stability would refer to the SOS Brigade remaining together and having fun doing non-world changing things. This is a bad way to end the series for two reasons: if they're still having fun, then of course we readers would like to hear about those fun things, right? The other issue is realism.

Kyon has mentioned this a couple times in the books. What is Haruhi planning to do after High School? Mikuru will graduate after this year. Furthermore, it is unrealistic and, in terms of character development, regressive for the SOS Brigade to continue into University. Haruhi's character development has been all about learning to enjoy normal life again (as pointed out in Volume 8, Haruhi is returning to her pre-middle-school cheerful personality). It has also been about opening up to others, so she can't just keep depending on her SOS Brigade as a crutch for social interactions indefinately. Indeed, although Haruhi's relationship with Kyon has continued to grow, the submissiveness Yuki, Mikuru, and Koizumi demonstrate stagnates any development on that end at all. I don't think Haruhi can really consider Yuki/Mikuru/Koizumi friends until they leave and start doing things on their own.

What I'm saying is, the story can't end in a satisfying matter until the SOS Brigade breaks up of it's own will. Although Haruhi's mentality has indeed been growing in a direction where she will not need the SOS Brigade to have fun anymore, there is still no good reason for her to give it up. My guess is that the trigger would be the end of second year, with the graduation of Mikuru. Haruhi will acknowledge the necessity of Mikuru's departure, will declare that the SOS Brigade cannot continue without her, and proceed to focus on getting into a university with Kyon while still occasionally having outings with all her friends. Life will go on.

It's hard to imagine a lifetime. I've barely started, myself. I question the longevity of Haruhi and Kyon's relationship (after all, she is still just a girl, and he just a boy), and I wonder whether or not Haruhi would allow herself to be bound by post-secondary education at all. Haruhi is still a remarkable person even without her powers, so I want to see what she can accomplish, in this world, along with the rest of us. I doubt this is within the scope of the author though.

I believe you are absolutely right, there are many more to go with the SOS Brigade, as for them to continue after high school is a true part.
Even if Haruhi and Kyon are in another university, I feel that she would continue her relationship with Kyon no matter what, after all she choose him for some reason or reasons.

As far for the rest of the SOS Brigade members, they are as part of Haruhi universe so by saying that, they are not going anywhere either.
New adventures and new experiences will be different from Senior School, as because they will be older and more wiser then before, but new theories, realities, and danger will be following them, no matter what.

As far as its concern, I read in many Japanese fan forums, it's the SOS Brigade members must still fight and protect both Kyon and Haruhi. As the years past, the situations changes and the dangers increases. More and more opposites will be waiting and striking at the time when both Haruhi and Kyon needs each other trust and commitment to over comes any adversities. Many agree thought its better to keep Haruhi as a "quite/sleeping" God, that way the universe will not change as she fit to believed. While others (those are hardcore Kyonist sites in Japanese) believes that as she matures as a person, her powers will be reveal by Kyon himself to her, his love and understanding of person as a person and a woman, will keep her at bay. And any issues that arise towards Kyon and the SOS Brigade, Haruhi has all the power to stop at nothing to protect them, specially if it's deals with Kyon. Even though her powers has been reveal to her, it all centralized to Kyon, even though he spoke the truth to her of her nature, it like him sparking that into her, therefore has was the one that started, and he is the one in essence give her that power.

So as far as the series goes, yes definitely it will continue, the question is... after Senior School, will Haruhi be the "sleeping" God, or the "essence of all being". Either way, she will not let Kyon go and the SOS Brigade.

Thank you
Domo arigato.

[Sol Falling]

I dunno. As fun as the SOS Brigade is, and as much as I respect the ideas which led Haruhi to creating it, it is in all honesty a very shortsighted, self-centered, non-productive club. I can forgive, even accept, 15-17 year olds acting in the manner Haruhi does. However, that kind of behaviour and attitude is unbecoming of an adult. I would be embarassed for any kind of adult who went traipsing around looking for aliens because "it's more fun if they exist".

Growing up, changing perspectives...it's a natural thing, you know? Particularly at the age Haruhi is at right now. Somebody described the Haruhi series as a "coming of age story". This strikes me as true. The central conflict of the story is both of the characters learning to grasp that the world is so much bigger than just what they see, just what is around them.

The SOS Brigade was created at the very beginning of the story. The first chapter, even. So I believe that the story will end with its dissolution.

Many fun times have been had for the readers, and we can pretty confidently say the same for Kyon and Haruhi. However, it's much harder to say that for Yuki, Mikuru, and Koizumi. Yuki may have developed some emotions, but in the end she's still very much removed from the perspective of humans. Half (at least) of the SOS Brigade's activities involve exploiting Mikuru, so I can't imagine she considers these circumstances ideal, either. Koizumi is even more of a doormat, and he can never relax as every second he spends with the SOS Brigade is spent monitering Haruhi's emotional state. And as I mentioned in my previous post, none of them have any relationship to speak of with Haruhi. Anybody who would call their relationships with her "friendship" don't know what friends are. The SOS Brigade's existence is solely an existence of pandering to Haruhi's real world whims, and pandering to Kyon's desire to be a fictional character.

I can appreciate the SOS Brigade because it was the social context Haruhi needed (and still needs, but on an ever diminishing scale) to interact with Kyon. However, the SOS Brigade is very limiting in terms of providing Haruhi with the skills needed to interact with people other than Kyon. That's why it needs to go. Haruhi can't go her whole life taking advantage of Yuki, Mikuru, and Koizumi, depending only on Kyon, and disrespecting everybody else. Even if she has the power to change the whole world, the world's opinion is what can hurt her. Haruhi has some faith that regardless of the way she treats other people, she is in the end still a good, likeable, person. To keep cushioning her in the SOS Brigade would turn her into a person who ultimately isn't.

So there. I'm just tracing the way Tanigawa's novels are progressing when I say that the SOS Brigade and what he'll tell of Haruhi's story with it are going to end at the very latest by the time they get out of High School. All the rest of the shit up there is why this is a good thing.

[Jaymer]

I know this seems random, but will the Haruhi Novels be released into English? If so, when -pyon?

[ClockWorkAngel]

I believe some have already reached english (up to volume 3 I believe, not sure!).

I too believe that the SOS brigade wouldn't be able to last forever, no matter how much Haruhi can hope for it to last, eventually it won't. She can loop the time period again and again, but in the end it's just evading the problem. In reality I too believe that without something else than the SOS brigade Haruhi would simply be unable to interact with anyone short of the SOS Brigade. If she does become completely reliant to Kyon for attention and comfort like you said Sol, that would cause a lot of problems for both of them. If she took Kyon as an example or even a standard for how people should treat her that would very bad in some situations (not everyone will do as you say Haruhi!). But I'm worried of Kyon too, though he is level-headed and quite smart, he might find that he would rather throw away the burden of existence because he find that perhaps the world might not be worth it after all (If somehow Haruhi causes a big disaster; I mean serious stuff) and might believe and expect that if he throws that burden away, he would be remade and placed into another reality, perhaps living without Haruhi. To me that's a possibility though extremely slim (But would make for a good fanfic... Hehe idea bulb went boing!) In reality the SOS Brigade might have been destined for failure.

However Sol I believe that everyone in the SOS Brigade does have somewhat of a friendship with Haruhi, and if not her, Kyon at least. And that if they're obligations as friends are not to make Haurih happy, it may simply be so that they don't leave Kyon alone and left with a huge mess to deal with.

[Jaymer]

Already in English? Anyone know where I can buy 'em? (online)

[FatPianoBoy]

Already in English? Anyone know where I can buy 'em? (online)
No... it's a fan translation that's in English here (http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi). As far as the public knows, the novels are still unlicensed.

[Jaymer]

okay ^.^U
I just wanna buy 'em so bad -pyon.

[KeitaroNagato]

okay ^.^U
I just wanna buy 'em so bad -pyon.

Rumor has there is something being told about the Light Novels will or might be mention in Vol4 of the Suzumiya Haruhi DVD of season 1.
BUT!!!
I'm not sure if its true or not, it's just a speculation at this moment, if anyone knows about, I'm sure its going to be mention.
If you go to http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi

It has all vol1 to vol9 translated in English.

I guess you already know that :)

Thank you
Domo arigato

[CrowKenobi]

Rumor has there is something being told about the Light Novels will or might be mention in Vol4 of the Suzumiya Haruhi DVD of season 1.
BUT!!!
I'm not sure if its true or not, it's just a speculation at this moment, if anyone knows about, I'm sure its going to be mention.
If you go to http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi

It has all vol1 to vol9 translated in English.

I guess you already know that :)

Thank you
Domo arigatoI don't think that's going to happen since the Lucky Star license announcement was the special mention in vol. 4. :D
d923UeSxgtU:cool:

[Aquifina]

I dunno. As fun as the SOS Brigade is, and as much as I respect the ideas which led Haruhi to creating it, it is in all honesty a very shortsighted, self-centered, non-productive club. I can forgive, even accept, 15-17 year olds acting in the manner Haruhi does. However, that kind of behaviour and attitude is unbecoming of an adult. I would be embarassed for any kind of adult who went traipsing around looking for aliens because "it's more fun if they exist".

Growing up, changing perspectives...it's a natural thing, you know? Particularly at the age Haruhi is at right now. Somebody described the Haruhi series as a "coming of age story". This strikes me as true. The central conflict of the story is both of the characters learning to grasp that the world is so much bigger than just what they see, just what is around them.

The SOS Brigade was created at the very beginning of the story. The first chapter, even. So I believe that the story will end with its dissolution.

Many fun times have been had for the readers, and we can pretty confidently say the same for Kyon and Haruhi. However, it's much harder to say that for Yuki, Mikuru, and Koizumi. Yuki may have developed some emotions, but in the end she's still very much removed from the perspective of humans. Half (at least) of the SOS Brigade's activities involve exploiting Mikuru, so I can't imagine she considers these circumstances ideal, either. Koizumi is even more of a doormat, and he can never relax as every second he spends with the SOS Brigade is spent monitering Haruhi's emotional state. And as I mentioned in my previous post, none of them have any relationship to speak of with Haruhi. Anybody who would call their relationships with her "friendship" don't know what friends are. The SOS Brigade's existence is solely an existence of pandering to Haruhi's real world whims, and pandering to Kyon's desire to be a fictional character.

I can appreciate the SOS Brigade because it was the social context Haruhi needed (and still needs, but on an ever diminishing scale) to interact with Kyon. However, the SOS Brigade is very limiting in terms of providing Haruhi with the skills needed to interact with people other than Kyon. That's why it needs to go. Haruhi can't go her whole life taking advantage of Yuki, Mikuru, and Koizumi, depending only on Kyon, and disrespecting everybody else. Even if she has the power to change the whole world, the world's opinion is what can hurt her. Haruhi has some faith that regardless of the way she treats other people, she is in the end still a good, likeable, person. To keep cushioning her in the SOS Brigade would turn her into a person who ultimately isn't.

So there. I'm just tracing the way Tanigawa's novels are progressing when I say that the SOS Brigade and what he'll tell of Haruhi's story with it are going to end at the very latest by the time they get out of High School. All the rest of the shit up there is why this is a good thing.

It's funny, because I saw the series the first time by accident in chronological, as opposed to airing order. That meant my perception of Haruhi was incredibly negative in the first eps--I saw her as just flat-out MEAN. The only reason I stuck with the series was because of Kyon's sardonic commentary, although I was still irritated at his inability/unwillingness to do much of anything to protect Mikuru. Of course, after the resolution of sorts in the dream sequence between Kyon and Haruhi, she became a much more sympathetic character--the eccentric charm remained, which had always been there, but much of the unpleasantness that marked her personality early on disappeared.

Looking at the novels, which I haven't been able to read all of, but have gotten some familiarity with, I definitely think you're right that this is partly a story of Haruhi learning to make her peace with the "normal" world. And of Kyon recapturing some of the wide-eyed wonder of his youth, as opposed to just being a sardonic and cynical observer. In that way, I think both characters fit each other quite well.

But I think you're right that the end point of this is Haruhi being able to not have to rely on the SOS club to deal with the real world. Part of this involves getting enough self-confidence; the irony is that despite Haruhi's powers, she's so insecure--her jealousy regarding Kyon shows that.

[KeitaroNagato]

I don't think that's going to happen since the Lucky Star license announcement was the special mention in vol. 4. :D
d923UeSxgtU:cool:

Hey CrowKenobi :) :)

Is there any news that you know if the light novels are going to be in English? So far I've not found anything about it. But... one site did mention about license agreement in the works, but they also mention its only a rumor though.

Maybe there is a chance that the books will be licensed, I have the feeling its also based on how well the merchandises of Haruhi Suzumiya is doing or going to do up here in the North America (mainly Canada, USA and Puerto Rico). I have not seen any figures of how its doing here, so I'm just relying on what other sources indicates, such as ANIME NEWS NETWORK.

So... anything is possible at this moment. :)

Take care

Thank You
Domo Arigato

[KeitaroNagato]

I don't think that's going to happen since the Lucky Star license announcement was the special mention in vol. 4. :D
d923UeSxgtU:cool:

OH!!! love your TUBEVIDEO :)

Just want to say that :)

Thank you
Domo arigato

[KeitaroNagato]

Hey <Sol Falling> and <CrowKenobi> and everyone else...

I just read that many people believe that in the novels Haruhi is more a Tsundere character being portraited then what is being shown in the mangas and the anime.

I some what agree and disagreed.

What you think....? I just think that some people has the wrong idea what is a Tsundere. A good example I think of is Akane of Ranma 1/2 and Naru of Love Hina, those are great examples of Tsundere characters. Not Haruhi.

Thank you
Domo arigato

[FatPianoBoy]

Kinda bugs me that they used a trailer consisting of only that scene. I understand that not riding the wave of Haruhi-mania is bad business, but complete newbies to Lucky Star may just think the whole show is some kind of weird Haruhi parody.

[typhonsentra]

I'd think LS would be a hard show to promote. Very low action, almost all the humor comes from long, drawn out conversations. To be fair I didn't watch the entire series but that was the impression I was left with.

[FatPianoBoy]

almost all the humor comes from long, drawn out conversations.
It kinda reminds me of a cleaner version of Family Guy in that respect.

[KeitaroNagato]

I'd think LS would be a hard show to promote. Very low action, almost all the humor comes from long, drawn out conversations. To be fair I didn't watch the entire series but that was the impression I was left with.

Most true OTAKUS like myself not only watch read, and collects all types of anime and related stuff. LS is not a Haruhi MANGA forum though, but I do understand <CrowKenobi> enthusiastic Hardcore with the world of Haruhi, I would be proudly showing or even telling what other material(s) are either showing or even mentioning anything about Haruhi Suzumiya. It's true to being a great fan of it.

Now back to the real topic of Manga and Novels of Suzumiya Haruhi forum, I may be bold about this and that but, something came across about the in Vol2 :The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya. As I started to reread the series again:

Kyon stated:
Nagato has always been the silent type, so I have no idea if any of this is true. But it's very likely
that another sort of conflict is happening outside of my knowledge, perhaps happening in a very
relaxed manner.

Is he stating that there is more to meets the eye about Nagato? Or he is stating that maybe Nagato is not sharing with him about who she is as an individual, not as A humanoid interface created by the Data Integration Thought Entity...?

I read the rest of the paragraph:

Even if we're on the verge of Earth's destruction, I believe she'll still remain
silent. If I ask her directly, she might tell me. But, I think she would just say something that is
incomprehensible using the language available to humans, and I don't think I have the intellect to
try to comprehend what she might say.

I believe what he was stating that for his sake, if there was a problem how would he understand Nagato if she was telling him if there was a problem in the first place....? Anyways, I bet Kyon at that point of the story would be able to comprehend what Nagato has to say. Even if its involved with his and Haruhi Safety. I'm sure she would do everything to stop at anyone and/or anything to protect Kyon and Haruhi......mmmmmm?.......... I just wonder if this corresponds to what going on in vol9.......mmmmm?

what if in vol9 Nagato got sick for a purpose? There is something about that board game that happend on both timelines.....mmmmm?

What if, Nagato getting sick is on her way to defy the Data Integration Thought Entity, on not interfering with the course of Kyon and Haruhi.
Or, getting sick is a way to give Kyon an awareness of what's going on, after all the Data Integration Thought Entity can gather information past and future, so in a sense Nagato must know whats going on....

Thank you
Domo arigato

[Sol Falling]

I'm pretty sure that Yuki getting sick has more to do with the Macrospatial Quantum thingy thing. Yuki also got sick during Snow Mountain Syndrome, which they caused, if you'll remember.

Anyway, as for the conflicts going on in the background alluded to in the second Volume, I'd say they could be three things:

1. Disturbances within the Data Integration Thought Entity due to the different factions (stuff like Asakura, etc.)
2. Disturbances due to interactions with the Macrospatial Quantum etc. etc.
3. Disturbances on earth due to various other types of data life forms (the cave cricket and "spirit" from Wandering Shadow).

Koizumi also says similar things about conflicts within the Organization and stuff. We've been given a brief glimpse of that through the other esper group.

[KeitaroNagato]

I'm pretty sure that Yuki getting sick has more to do with the Macrospatial Quantum thingy thing. Yuki also got sick during Snow Mountain Syndrome, which they caused, if you'll remember.

Anyway, as for the conflicts going on in the background alluded to in the second Volume, I'd say they could be three things:

1. Disturbances within the Data Integration Thought Entity due to the different factions (stuff like Asakura, etc.)
2. Disturbances due to interactions with the Macrospatial Quantum etc. etc.
3. Disturbances on earth due to various other types of data life forms (the cave cricket and "spirit" from Wandering Shadow).

Koizumi also says similar things about conflicts within the Organization and stuff. We've been given a brief glimpse of that through the other esper group.

Thanks <Sol Falling>

There are many theories of Nagato being sick though, I understand that Macrospatial Quantum is behind it. But Just like the Data Integration Thought Entity, they have the ability to received information from the past and the future by synchronizing, somehow I believe Nagato knows that the 2 timelines are split. I think she should have known about it in advance and should have communicated with the SOS crew, specially Kyon.

Maybe the Macrospatial Quantum has somehow disable her communication from the future, therefore Nagato cannot detect that there are 2 timelines. If that is the case, maybe in the ALPHA timeline and BETA timeline, Nagato may suspect that something is wrong over the horizon.

Thank you
Domo arigato

[KeitaroNagato]

Since the alternate SOS Dan exists in both alpha and beta timelines it would be logical to assume that the other ESPer thinks that Saski has god powers in both timelines. I really think that she is the only one who does. The interface and time traveler joined because it helps their cause.

I think that they both have power, or represent opposite sides of the same power. Haruhi is caos and Sasaki is order. And Kyon bridges the gap between them.

I know this is about the timelines, but somehow I feel that if Sasaki is behind all, then her intentions were to get Nagato sick. If she is behind on all timelines, then the dominate timeline that she has total control, is where Nagato got sick. There is a factor that Sasaki "wants" Kyon to react in someways, how he feels about the SOS members and the Sasaki Crew, obviously his loyalty and commitment will be Haruhi and all the SOS Brigade. Somehow Sasaki could be playing both sides (ALPHA and BETA timelines) for her own benefit(s). In this case, it's Kyon.

Thank you
Domo arigato

[PastPrime]

Thanks <Sol Falling>

There are many theories of Nagato being sick though, I understand that Macrospatial Quantum is behind it. But Just like the Data Integration Thought Entity, they have the ability to received information from the past and the future by synchronizing, somehow I believe Nagato knows that the 2 timelines are split. I think she should have known about it in advance and should have communicated with the SOS crew, specially Kyon.

Maybe the Macrospatial Quantum has somehow disable her communication from the future, therefore Nagato cannot detect that there are 2 timelines. If that is the case, maybe in the ALPHA timeline and BETA timeline, Nagato may suspect that something is wrong over the horizon.

Thank you
Domo arigato

You are forgetting that following the events in "The Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi" Yuki will no longer synchronize with her future or past selves, so there is no way for her to know that unless one happens and then the other. And then she would only know it when the second started.

[KeitaroNagato]

You are forgetting that following the events in "The Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi" Yuki will no longer synchronize with her future or past selves, so there is no way for her to know that unless one happens and then the other. And then she would only know it when the second started.

OH.....THATS RIGHT!!!!

I forgot that she stop her synchronization, then scratch that theory...hehehe.

BUT!!!

Even though she cannot synchronized, but her superior can, in this case is Emiri Kimidori. I think that maybe she must have or may have or maybe not, somehow contacted Nagato? Remember when Kyon was at the Cafe with Sasaki Crew and Emiri Kimidori was working as a waitress. I'm assuming she must have known what was going on, or may be going on.... after all... Kyon was there caught red handed with Sasaki and her Crew.

Thank you
Domo arigato

[KeitaroNagato]

You are forgetting that following the events in "The Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi" Yuki will no longer synchronize with her future or past selves, so there is no way for her to know that unless one happens and then the other. And then she would only know it when the second started.

Hey <PastPrime>, I'm not sure if its was <X207> or <UPR> or <CrowKenobi>...

since they are senior members here, I'm not sure if the quote is right but some point of the series Kyon and Haruhi will be getting together as... maybe a couple. I don't remember how long it was mention but at some point of their "story", they will be together.

What if vol10 "The Surprise of Suzumiya Haruhi" is when Kyon and Haruhi actually become romantically involved. If that is that case then definitely the series will end or maybe continue in another spin.

Somehow, I believe that vol10 is not the time went they actually get involved. Because...
1. Even if Kyon actually tells her that he has feelings for her, or is in love with her. Haruhi might think he just being a Joker or something along those lines.

2. It's too early in the series for Kyon and Haruhi to get togther as a couple. Haruhi must deal with some issues aswell as Kyon.

3. Even if Kyon mention his feelings, Haruhi at face value will behave that there is nothing about it, but inside she will be the most Happiest person in the world.

If Vol10 is the "Surprise" what Haruhi wants, then its the love that she and Kyon have, that way both grow together as one, you know the perfect fit, the Ying and Yang.

If that happens, than Data Integration Thought Entity, The Organization and Time-Travelers... cannot interfere with them. Kyon and Haruhi will be balance in the universe, and the services of the others SOS Brigade members will not be needed. Thus... in a sense the end of the series.

Thank you
Domo arigato

[~Greed~]

I know im kind coming out of no where , but after reading volume nine , does anyone feel that maybe haruhi isent the one with god like powers , but.....




"kyon is, allthough he just dosent know it .I just get a really weird feeling that he is. after reading about sasaki(kyons midddle school friend) and how she is believed to be god by some of the supernatral factions ,(the one oposing nagatos koizumis and asahinas factions). their orgonizations said that sasaki originally had haruhis powers and somehow sasakis powers were transferred to haruhi. what if thats kinda true , but the way they were transferred was that kyon gave the powers to them , meaning that origanally sasaki had the powers but after kyon met haruhi he felt she was more suitable to have those powers and gave them to her. of course though ,kyon is doing this subcontiosly(sp) . besides , wasent it kyon who also said he wanted all of these supernatral things to exist before he got into high school....?"]

Id just like some other peoples thoughts on this. of course these are just my personal opinions and i have no way to back them up;)

[KeitaroNagato]

I know im kind coming out of no where , but after reading volume nine , does anyone feel that maybe haruhi isent the one with god like powers , but.....




"kyon is, allthough he just dosent know it .I just get a really weird feeling that he is. after reading about sasaki(kyons midddle school friend) and how she is believed to be god by some of the supernatral factions ,(the one oposing nagatos koizumis and asahinas factions). their orgonizations said that sasaki originally had haruhis powers and somehow sasakis powers were transferred to haruhi. what if thats kinda true , but the way they were transferred was that kyon gave the powers to them , meaning that origanally sasaki had the powers but after kyon met haruhi he felt she was more suitable to have those powers and gave them to her. of course though ,kyon is doing this subcontiosly(sp) . besides , wasent it kyon who also said he wanted all of these supernatral things to exist before he got into high school....?"]

Id just like some other peoples thoughts on this. of course these are just my personal opinions and i have no way to back them up;)

ya... i believe it to, but what if it's actaully kyon's doing...(?)
So far there is the TIME PHASE theory, check on <Sol Falling>, he/she has a great explanation on it.
Here a bit of it:
Starting at paragraph 5 above, I make the assuption that each time plane has a "locus" of sorts that represents it's proper place in time. This provided a buffer of empty "time loci" protecting the origin time plane. I assumed that this was necessary to prevent time paradoxes. Actually, though, it isn't, because the history of the origin time plane is protected since it's also advancing in time and generating new time planes itself. So in effect, after travelling to the past a timeline would look like this (where + indicates that that time plane is generating or overwriting new planes):

2005-2006-2007+5289+

This diagram shows 2007 about to overwrite 5289 with 2008, but the existance of 5289's reality will be safe because it is just about to generate 5290 anyway.

In this case, travelling to the future would merely be stepping from the past time plane to the one directly in front of it, without involving any time plane destruction at all. This also means that it becomes impossible for one to return to the origin point of time in the future; once one returns to the future, an equal amount of time would have passed as the time spent in the past.

So basically, this edit contradicts the stuff in paragraphs 6 and 7 and invalidates explanation number two of Haruhi's time quake, while paragraphs 8 and 9 are still basically valid. I guess there's an assumption in this theory too, though, in that I'm assuming that the overwriting/generation rate of time planes at both the destination and origin points in time are the same. Still a better assumption than loci, though.

Then the Sasaki crew theory, that she is somehow behind it.

Then there is the Kyonist theory, that somehow, Kyon unwilling is behind it.

There are so many theories that I believe at this point we have to wait until vol10, and see whats up.


Thank you
Domo arigato

[~Greed~]

ya... i believe it to, but what if it's actaully kyon's doing...(?)
So far there is the TIME PHASE theory, check on <Sol Falling>, he/she has a great explanation on it.
Here a bit of it:
Starting at paragraph 5 above, I make the assuption that each time plane has a "locus" of sorts that represents it's proper place in time. This provided a buffer of empty "time loci" protecting the origin time plane. I assumed that this was necessary to prevent time paradoxes. Actually, though, it isn't, because the history of the origin time plane is protected since it's also advancing in time and generating new time planes itself. So in effect, after travelling to the past a timeline would look like this (where + indicates that that time plane is generating or overwriting new planes):

2005-2006-2007+5289+

This diagram shows 2007 about to overwrite 5289 with 2008, but the existance of 5289's reality will be safe because it is just about to generate 5290 anyway.

In this case, travelling to the future would merely be stepping from the past time plane to the one directly in front of it, without involving any time plane destruction at all. This also means that it becomes impossible for one to return to the origin point of time in the future; once one returns to the future, an equal amount of time would have passed as the time spent in the past.

So basically, this edit contradicts the stuff in paragraphs 6 and 7 and invalidates explanation number two of Haruhi's time quake, while paragraphs 8 and 9 are still basically valid. I guess there's an assumption in this theory too, though, in that I'm assuming that the overwriting/generation rate of time planes at both the destination and origin points in time are the same. Still a better assumption than loci, though.

Then the Sasaki crew theory, that she is somehow behind it.

Then there is the Kyonist theory, that somehow, Kyon unwilling is behind it.

There are so many theories that I believe at this point we have to wait until vol10, and see whats up.


Thank you
Domo arigato

do you have a link to these theories , they intrest me


thanks

[KeitaroNagato]

do you have a link to these theories , they intrest me


thanks

They are all in here, in this forum :)

enjoy

thank you
domo arigato

[ClockWorkAngel]

Well for now all and about ever theory could be disproven if somehow the Surprise brings in a whole bunch of new aspects (Though I doubt that). And all the theories about what the "surprise" would be hmmm. I have my own thoughts on that too. It may or may not lead to the end of the series. However I sincerely doubt that Haruhi would ever proclaim her love for Kyon, it doesn't seem like her at all. It may turn out that she wouldn't be ready for it at all and if Kyon does go on with a generic confession Haruhi might just be speechless! Fingers crossed, I hope the series doesn't end!

[~Greed~]

They are all in here, in this forum :)

enjoy

thank you
domo arigato


thanks i found some