View Full Version : Future Episode Synopses/Series Predictions/General Speculation
Catgirls
2006-04-13, 10:49
Original text © xris (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=29887)
This thread is for future speculation of the Suzumiya Haruhi anime. The main purpose is to keep such discussion away from the episode discussion threads and so avoid serious spoilers.
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Posting magazine previews (such as from Animage).
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Enjoy. :)
sophismata
2006-04-13, 11:17
As I posted earlier, here is my theory regarding Kyon.
It is my belief that "Kyon" is only real sofar as it relates to Haruhi; I think Haruhi has created Kyon and that is why some details, such as his name, seem non-existant; the creation is not that deep.
Of course, it's just speculation on my part.
panzerfan
2006-04-13, 13:21
fufufu...wait till we hear of Itsuki's conversation w. Kyon on 'divinity'...
nihaha. :P I am not saying anything more than that.
Shadowscar
2006-04-13, 14:28
ahhh how is it possible to predict this show this is a cruel cruel joke lol :P
although sophismata idea sounds cool he has had to much class room interaction for that to be of her imagination :(
For some reason i can see the SOS group going against the school and doing alot of very unqiue things :)
fufufu...wait till we hear of Itsuki's conversation w. Kyon on 'divinity'...
nihaha. :P I am not saying anything more than that.
That whole conversation made me go "OH MY GOD!" :D
In any case, going more non-spoilerish and pointing out some things shown/hinted at in the episodes themselves for others to ponder about...
Haruhi pre-Kyon and post-Kyon seem almost like two different people... its almost like she's been waiting for someone to feed her those ideas.
While watching first ep for the 3rd time I guess I've found something interesting.
As we all know special effects in Mikurus movie aren't impressive (actually they are crappy :rolleyes: )
http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b332/marisuz/th_bscap443.jpg (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b332/marisuz/bscap443.jpg)
But at the end of the episode on the rooftop scene, the blue lights coming from Itsukis barrier/shield (or whatever it should be called) are suprisingly well made.
http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b332/marisuz/th_bscap441.jpg (http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b332/marisuz/bscap441.jpg) http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b332/marisuz/th_bscap440.jpg (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b332/marisuz/?action=view¤t=bscap440.jpg)
Isn't this suspicious ?
I just wanted to share with my observation. I guess that people who read the novels, actually know how to explain this " phenomenon "
Anyways I will humbly wait for some more episodes to exactly find this out by myself. (I have already read too much spoilers ^^; )
Pakxenon
2006-04-13, 19:06
Man. I was wondering what's up with Itsuki going all DBZ while Mikuru's Beam Attack was just crappy editting.
Then you've got Yuki flying in the sky... but she's apparently still here, so that's either amateur editting or she came back from space, being a magic alien and all.
Kyon's "attack" at the end of the show showed surprising levels of sfx :)
That and a few other foreshadow clues mean this show is probably going to get very surreal. Disclaimer - I've not read any of the source material and in fact intend to avoid it until after the series.
Radiosity
2006-04-13, 19:46
Surreal indeed. Take the cat for example. It was talking. It even surprised the rest of them because it's supposed to keep it's mouth shut it seems. The comment '...and that was ventriloquism' certainly seems to hint that it was indeed the cat talking, and the rest of them shushing him gave a clue of course ;)
sophismata
2006-04-13, 22:36
although sophismata idea sounds cool he has had to much class room interaction for that to be of her imagination :(
Oh, he's a real person. I'm not saying he's a figment of Haruhi's imagination, but rather, I think he was created, in a way, by Haruhi...
He matches her perfectly, enthusiasm and cynicism, joy and nonchalance... as someone said, it's like he's the key, or the trigger...
Pakxenon
2006-04-13, 22:38
Haruhi throwing tennis ball at roof: She's trying to call aliens.
Haruhi stalking around the pool: She's going to create a vortex to another world.
o_____O
I just wanna see suzumiya wearing a hat made out of tin to protect from alien mind reading waves.
Surreal indeed. Take the cat for example. It was talking. It even surprised the rest of them because it's supposed to keep it's mouth shut it seems. The comment '...and that was ventriloquism' certainly seems to hint that it was indeed the cat talking, and the rest of them shushing him gave a clue of course ;)
Well, they are trying to film something that's going to be seen by an audience, so it probably wouldn't be a very good idea to have a talking cat in it. Yuki's "matter-of-fact" sounding excuse is funny, but important. The most important reason for hiding all the "supernatural" happenings is so that Haruhi doesn't find out about it.
As for future directions, I think they'll finish the introduction (there's still Koizumi left), plus the initial club works ("aquisitioning" a personal computer for SOS-dan use, bunnygirl PR, etc.), and Mikuru, Yuki, and Koizumi's "important" initial events with Kyon. After that, the story will probably jump from volume 1 (憂鬱/Yuutsu, Melancoly) to volume 3 (退屈/Taikutsu, Boredom). Since timeline-wise, volume 3 comes directly after volume 1. The final events of volume 1 will probably make a good series ending instead.
After that, the story will probably jump from volume 1 (??/Yuutsu, Melancoly) to volume 3 (??/Taikutsu, boredom). Since timeline-wise, volume 3 comes directly after volume 1. The final events of volume 1 will probably make a good series ending instead.
Still haven't gotten to vol 3 :heh: (working on it I promise!) but I agree with the final events of vol 1 being a good series ending. It would feel pretty jarring otherwise.
Thelastguardian
2006-04-14, 02:35
The final events of volume 1 will probably make a good series ending instead.
Maybe, but there is that Christmas+Nabe+Kyon-dresses-as-reindeer scene in the ED, which can mean that
We get to see Volume 4 The Disapparence of Suzumiya Haruhi.
As I said before, Kyon made an important decision at the end of that volume-
To revert the world back to where Haruhi still has the power. He finally agree it is fun to be with Haruhi.
But heck, Volume 1's ending is good enough.
Onizuka-GTO
2006-04-14, 14:52
does anyone know whats Itsuki full name?
Pakxenon
2006-04-14, 21:16
does anyone know whats Itsuki full name?
Uh... Itsuki Koizumi? He's got DBZ powas. :D
Onizuka-GTO
2006-04-14, 21:18
Uh... Itsuki Koizumi? He's got DBZ powas. :D
funny :rolleyes:
anyway, how about the three sidekicks anyone got any names for them?
still looking for data to plot into the wiki.
haruhi wiki is now my life :(
This conversation is reproduced here from the Novels Translations Thread as the content would more suitably fit this one. Sorry for the inconvenience. :heh:
If the novel develops even more on Haruhi's nature... can we say that Haruhi is... THE Gnostic 'demiurge'? The very one that is an imperfect emanation and well messed up some more by making human beings? (Talking about that would open up a huge can of worm) What would that make Kyon then?
Going on the Gnostic track, instead of the 'demiurge' its just as likely Haruhi could be the 'lower Sophia' who gets exiled in the realm of deficiency (our world) and becomes lost in ignorance and confusion, unable to distinguish reality from unreality, losing sight/not realizing her divine self, just like Haruhi doesn't realize her own powers etc. In that case that could make Kyon the 'Savior/Christ' who helps Sophia/Haruhi realize her own divine nature. :heh:
panzerfan
2006-04-16, 17:37
but... wouldn't that mean in the process of finding gnosis, Haruhi's dragging alongside the whole lot (extending to anyone in close contact to SOS) and allowing them to reach emancipation (well... under the moniker "overloading the world with fun")
Then there's Ryoko to consider. Ryoko's action with trying to kill Kyon starts to resemble the acts of self-degration that early Gnostics undertook... justified by saying that the bodily Hylic's worth nothing and are only mere distractions to perfection.
As for Yuki and her true nature... would she not be more in line as the 'savior' emination? In Gnosticism I recall that things come in pairs. 1 masculine, 1 feminine. Who is who's 'pair' in this case?
This is starting to look like what Itsuki might've said somehow...
In the meantime, does anyone recall Kasuga Ayumu? I was a little surprised when all of a sudden 'Kasuga == Haruhi' starts to string into my mind. (How I made the connection is... guess.)
but... wouldn't that mean in the process of finding gnosis, Haruhi's dragging alongside the whole lot (extending to anyone in close contact to SOS) and allowing them to reach emancipation (well... under the moniker "overloading the world with fun")
Then there's Ryoko to consider. Ryoko's action with trying to kill Kyon starts to resemble the acts of self-degration that early Gnostics undertook... justified by saying that the bodily Hylic's worth nothing and are only mere distractions to perfection.
As for Yuki and her true nature... would she not be more in line as the 'savior' emination? In Gnosticism I recall that things come in pairs. 1 masculine, 1 feminine. Who is who's 'pair' in this case?
This is starting to look like what Itsuki might've said somehow...
The whole 'information-based thought entities' does make you think of the Aeonic emanations. Unfortunately thats where the analogies break down. The Aeonic emanations would have no need of relying on Sophia/Haruhi to achieve further evolution. Yuki can't really be placed as the 'savior' emanation because like you said, Gnostic emanations come in masculine and feminine pairs. Yuki (feminine) can't be Sophia/Haruhi(feminine)'s complementary emanation. The 'savior' emanation is supposed to be masculine. As for 'pairing' up the characters.. I think thats even harder to make :heh: A Gnostic reference does seem possible in SHnY but a full blown analogy doesn't seem possible to me. :heh:
Its actually easier to draw the gnostic-Sophia analogies with Serial Experiments Lain: Lain ->Sophia, Eiri Masami -> Demiurge (which is my favourite pet theory) but thats a whole different anime :heh:
panzerfan
2006-04-16, 18:03
That of course leaves the question of Haruhi's 'architype' unanswered. For the Japanese demigod/ flawed gods or ... demons exist in literary concept (many of them with 'bad ending'), not that Haruhi's taking out of that cookie cutter.
To reply to a couple of posts in the episode 3 thread. Since it's more about future episode predictions, I'll put the reply here.
===============
That's an interesting observation about 'episode 7'. Vol 1 definitely needs a lot more screen time to finish it off. Compressing it doesn't look like it would work as those events are really important. So they may actually be doing what I had asked earlier in a different thread - rearranging events to interperse between the major character intros/explanations.
From the next episode preview, it appears there is going to be no attempts made to bridge the gap between episode 1 (2) and episode 7 (3).
Guess that makes sense in a way... We are going to be watching episodes in random order, by the looks of it. Very Haruhi.
Here's an examination, from a novel reader's point of view:
- The anime appears that it will cover up to Shoushitsu (消失, volume 4) (one proof is the Winter hot-pot shot in the ED sequence). Going any further is unlikely, given that we only have 14 (well, 13) episodes.
- Out of the the first 4 volumes (Yuutsu, Tameiki, Taikutsu, Shoushitsu), the only volume that's made up of a series of short, one-shot stories is Taikutsu (volume 3). Tameiki (volume 2), on the other hand, was already covered by Episode00 (well, Tameiki really only covered the filming process, the actual Episode00 movie was played out as a short-story chapter in Douyou (動揺, volume 6).
In other words, even though the anime is going to cover the first 4 volumes, the "main story" will be most likely be extracted from volume 1 (Yuutsu) and 4 (Shoushitsu). And it makes perfect sense to anyone who has read the novels because we know that these two volumes are where things actually get serious, compared to the "side-story-ish" feel of 2 and 3.
- We know that volume 2 probably won't be touched on anymore, so the remaining episodes will probably be using contents from volume 1, 3, and 4.
- By the end of episode 3, we know that Kyoani is going to start splitting volume 1 up and mixing in Taikutsu (volume 3) episodes. Which makes sense in two levels:
1. In volume 1, Yuki's "introduction" is immediately followed by Mikuru's, then Koizumi's, and then the Asakura event. If the anime showed all of these events one right after another, it's possible that the sudden flood of information might turn off some first-time watchers, and since volume 1's mood remains pretty serious after that until the very end, showing Yuutsu as one whole "package" probably wouldn't work.
2. Taikutsu (volume 3) is made up of 4 short-stories: Suzumiya Haruhi no Taikutsu, Sasa no Ha Rhapsody, Mysterious Sign, Kotou Shoukougun (Suzumiya Haruhi's Boredom, Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, Mysterious Sign, Lone Island Syndrome). They're independent from each other, and can be easily broken up into seperate episodes. Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody is actually quite an important chapter plot-wise too.
- So, the conclusion is: the anime will probably continue with Yuutsu's story, with episodes from Taikutsu thown in there every now and then. Shoushitsu, on the other hand, can't come in until the later episodes after most (...if not ALL, including Haruhi and Kyon's ____ scene, if they chose not to use it as an ending) of Yuutsu has been shown.
So, as a concrete example, it might be something like:
Episode 1: Episode00
Episode 2~10: 5~6 Yuutsu episodes + 3~4 Taikutsu episodes
Episode 11~14: 2~4 Shoushitsu episode + maybe 1~2 Yuutsu episode? (if they choose Yuutsu's end as the ending)
Another reply about future episode discussion, sorry for the double post. ^^;
===========================
Maybe like this:
1話 朝比奈ミクルの冒険
2話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅰ
3話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅱ
4話 涼宮ハルヒの退屈
5話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅲ
6話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅳ
7話 笹の葉ラプソディ
8話 涼宮ハルヒの溜息Ⅰ
9話 涼宮ハルヒの溜息Ⅱ
10話 射手座の日
11話 涼宮ハルヒの消失Ⅰ
12話 涼宮ハルヒの消失Ⅱ
13話 涼宮ハルヒの消失Ⅲ
14話 涼宮ハルヒの消失Ⅳ
That looks perfectly plausible too, 笹の葉ラプソディ is absolutely crucial to the story so it must be there. I think the first 7 episodes will probably play out just like the way you listed. 2 溜息 episodes and 射手座の日 would serve as a good bridge (timeline wise) between volume 1 (憂鬱) and volume 4 (消失), although there could be other combinations. As for 4 消失 episodes to round out the pack, I agree with that too. The anime will most likely end with the 消失 ending, it's a lot more "neutral" compared to 憂鬱's ending.
(But that means Yuki gets to take center stage during the final episodes then. I don't mind though, that "alternate" Yuki moe'd me to death ^^; )
I'm personally looking forward to seeing:
the "alternate" Yuki:
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/1586/323zk.th.jpg (http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=323zk.jpg)
and
Kouyouen Gakuin Haruhi:
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9723/1170eq.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1170eq.jpg)
In an attempt to bring disparate discussions together in a more suitable thread, I will reproduce the more "Speculation"-ish posts from episode 3 here. Apologies in advance if I had misquoted/etc anyone's words.
Posts on Haruhi's nature:
Haruhi is a modern interpretation of a classical Greek hero(ine) if we think about it. Luckily the take's not Shakesphereian since her greatest strength would be the perfect downfall. After thinking of Haruhi outside of anime context, I find her to be most befitting of the epic heroes.
Much like the flawed deities, Haruhi's personality is not taken out from straight cookie cutter. Her obsession and that undying thirst for change exceeds all else and it manifests itself in the display of her everyday antics, her mental states and her 'divine' power. That creativity which rivals that of Prometheus proves itself to be as horrifying as the gift of fire was to the gods (look at where the Greek gods are today?)
Kyon is unique in his role as not mere narriator but the bridge to observe the kind of 'madness' that is Haruhi. Haruhi, ever so curious of it all, becomes so destructive to the surrounding (as humanity is) as she refuses to conform and instead confronts/alters the very nature (again, humanity). Justifying means with ends, she relentlessly pushes her agenda of countering boredom. (Sounds almost hedonist utilitarian)
Haruhi becomes fascinating to me because... to me she embodies humanity. Ever so curious, ever so eager to play with fire, ever so headstrong, so proud, so uncompromising, maybe even nearsighted that she... we human... become monsters... freaks of nature in retrospect.
Maybe, that is why humanity has yet to realize its powers just as Haruhi remains oblivious towards her abhored abilities. What a storm in a teacup.
Kyon does not shy in being the one that has the power to present and subsequently interpret the acts of the heroes... in some ways putting things into stone. He carries the weight of commentator which is from nearly of no significence to being the key influence with our conclusion on what we've been given. That in itself proves to be an interesting power... think of the power that Homer and all subsequent scribes and monks have had just in transcribing/retelling oral epics into how we know of them today.
Kyon's ventage point in observing Haruhi and the SOS is omnipresent in some ways. His narriation at time levitates him from the scene as he speaks directly to the audience and his access to all the actors seemingly fits everything into an acrylic case, just as Plutarch and his imitators have had the advantage of time as their mean of being omnipresent in their story retellings.
The strength in a pen or narriation though is relative (Leon Trotsky and an ice dagger illustrates that pretty clearly...) and it shows in Kyon's involvement. Funny in some ways and all too real as well >.< (though a bit bloody an illustration). I am liking him more and more as Haruhi progresses.
(I thought about Mikuru using this starting point and what melange said and I feel strangely horrible over what I deduced about her. I guess this is becoming outside the bounds of ep3 so yea...)
A chill goes through my spine actually thinking of complicity as mentioned above as well as end justify the means as melange describes above. I don't have a coherent point to make yet but I am unsettled.
Nice. It seems that you've managed to pin down Haruhi's (and Kyon's) archetype :D
The flawed god/kami seems to fit Haruhi nicely and would jive well with Japanese mythology. Your mention of 'storm in a teacup' brings Susanoo the thunder god to mind. Wild and impulsive he frequently broke all the rules and was pretty much self-centered (at least in his youth), in a sense reminiscent of Haruhi.
Yet it seems that on the face of Itsuki's ramblings he defines a god as a 'creator' who exists outside of creation, away from the kami who are gods who can exist within creation, and argues that his personal opinion is that Haruhi is not a god but 'god-chosen' (I am guessing this whats referred to in the scene of Haruhi looking up at the night sky in the opening). Whether or not this is the author's definition of 'god' or not is uncertain and it is very probable that its just more 'denpa' talk he threw in to complicate matters/make things more interesting.
It seems evident that the more 'denpa' talk we get from Itsuki et. al. the more philosophical/speculative the discussions on Haruhi's nature can get. As such I'm beginning to wonder whether a separate thread for speculations such as these should be created as it definitely doesn't fit an episode discussion thread nor does it really fit the series prediction thread where similar stuff was brought up...
----------------------------------------
Posts on the ethics of Haruhi:
You may say that, but Haruhi is not evil, in traditional sense. More like rampant disregard of other's well being ;) .
Actually that's not exactly right.
She backed off multiple times in various parts of the series when Kyon seriously confronts/reasons her on multiple occasions.
For example, in the next episode (4 or 7, who cares), Kyon put a stop to Haruhi's rampage through the minor league.
Or the Itsuki's mansion scene where Kyon put a stop to Haruhi's filming because Mikuru is closed to her limit (after falling into the pond).
Or how Kyon forced Haruhi to put in the disclaimers at the end of the film. The disclaimer was NOT for parody.
You may even argue that, without Kyon, the world would be destroyed long before the animation starts. But that's another story.
As the story goes on, you will see different side of Haruhi. Some are nice, some are funny, one or two even made me go "wow I never knew she is like that inside her mind". The story needs time to develope its characters.
There is a method in her madness. More than method, actually. She is a very rounded character.
If I have to complain, I would complain about Mikuru. She gets the short end of the stick in terms of character developement. Therefore out of the four primary supportive characters, I like her the least.
Not that she doesn't have any developement, but *cut off for viewers' sake*
To Sushi-
I think what Mikuru is about to experience in 2nd volume is going to be much more torturing, both mentally and physically, to her.
Humiliations aside.
Imagine your body structure gets modified regularly by someone's will just because that someone wants your eyes to emit photon/neutron/whatever he/she thinks up to film a slapstick movie. And the only way to cure that each time is to let an mysterious alien that is magnitude more advance than you can ever understand to inject some god-knows-what nanoparticles into you. All the while you might kill the person you treasure most. The worst thing is you can't say NO, STOP IT! I HAVE ENOUGH to the person or else you risk the destruction of this and your own worlds.
Talk about suckage. No wonder she cried horrible during one of the filming scene.
But Kyon was there with her. I guess that's what pulled her though.
That's true, although Haruhi's treatment of Mikuru in this episode was mean, it was still within the "can be laughed off as a joke" level. Some of the things Haruhi did in volume 2, on the other hand, really begins to push against that "funny/not funny" borderline (although she didn't really mean it). But then again, it all adds to the realism of Haruhi's character, don't you think? Haruhi's not Haruhi unless she's always dashing ahead at full-speed, ignoring all traffic signs.
Frankly the 'computer blackmail' scene isn't that disturbing in the anime or in the novel for me. I couldn't help but laugh. Though of course they are 'cruel', I found most of the Mikuru-bullying scenes funny in the black humor type way but it's actually another Mikuru-bullying scene in the 2nd novel that left me with a bad taste in my mouth and really soured my enjoyment of Haruhi.
When Haruhi whacks Mikuru on the back of her neck so that her contacts will 'pop out' and Kyon stops her saying, "Mikuru isn't your toy!", Haruhi responds, "I've decided that Mikuru-chan is my toy!!" Kyon grips his fist and was only stopped from punching Haruhi by Itsuki.
I did not expect the her to actually use words like that and I found myself wanting Kyon to punch her.:frustrated:
Haruhi didn't mean it, of course. Remember, although Haruhi may appear like she's always doing things by her own methods, she's actually a perfectly logical person inside. What makes Haruhi unique is her ability to totally ignore those logics.
As for reason for the irrisponsible outburst, just like Koizumi told Kyon later, Haruhi wasn't angry because her authority was being challenged, she was angry because she was disappointed, because she believed that Kyon would always be there to support her, that he would be the last person in the world to betray her. And we know that when people feel betrayed, they often let their emotions get the better of them (especially for the impulsive types, like Haruhi). So an irrisponsible comment or two under that condition shouldn't be surprising.
Of course, we don't even know if the anime would even bother to go back to volume 2 again, so maybe we won't get to see that scene at all.
Eh, I don't think thats a good reasoning/defence for Haruhi's actions.
To give an example, a terrorist in Iraq just wanted to blow himself up and kill the people in the US ambassy. But just so happens that some innocent people (by-passers) get too near and die as well. The terrorist didn't mean it (to kill innocent bystanders who weren't targeted), but that doesn't mean that he is not to blame for the deaths of those innocents, correct?
And we all know that Haruhi is usually dead serious with what she says. So, while she may not mean to treat Mikuru badly, but she is still serious about treating Mikuru as a toy (which in essence, is the same thing): afterall, we're talking about a girl who has no time for normal people. It isn't beyond believable boundaries to say that she thinks of Mikuru as nothing more as a tool for whatever she wants (episode 2 should be evident enough).
That is the duality of the subject matter. Utilitarian will simply either say that a 'greater good' can be generated or that these acts of abuse has no downside from the perspective of the result as to prevent them. On the other hand moralists, relative or absolute will argue to infringements to fundamental 'rules' of these acts are not tolerable/wrong and gains do not take away from the impact of those infringements.
Strangely enough, creativity is a process that goes after the end gains at any cost. Justification to self becomes the only requirement to fulfill for one to embark on the process. It sounds rather mad but the Pol Pot killing field, the great purge or the burning of Rome become grotesque pieces of 'art' in that sense (and revulting they are to look at...)
That same kind of fire drives Haruhi. Sushi-Y mentioned about how Haruhi's logical inside but defies the logical conclusions. Where have we seen this irl?
Looking at the visage that is yourself proves to be difficult... putting complicity aside there's the burden of arrogance to be answered. To make matters worse shames that adult put shroud/clothes over in silent recognition and to see such ugliness, unabridged and naked...blatently displayed.
In kyon's defense, he has a backbone. As a matter of fact Yuki and Itsuki have that as well. However, to put into context (and not spoil the story) let's just say Haruhi holds significent deterrence in her hands to keep the SOS at bay.
Ok now for the parts that could get me in trouble in which I will spoiler so that those who choose to avoid my thoughts can do so :D
Ok I have to admit that the extortion of the computer research club was kind of cruel upon Mikuru. HOWEVER I don't feel sorry for Mikuru, my reasoning as follows: To me, Mikuru is simply a tool to build upon Haruhi's character. Reason being is that her character never changes regardless of the abuse she takes from Haruhi. Quite literally, Mikuru alternates from:
1. Mikuru is Cute
2. Mikuru is Crying
Because of her static behaviour, this leads me to believe that her purpose in the story is to further other characters...in other words, a tool. In a more elegant way of saying it, a literary device.
Keep in mind that this is creative work, where ethics and morals need not necessarily apply. If we were to be self-righteous, there would be many complaints about how killing/imprisoning/kidnapping/blahblahblah a sub-character to further the character development of a main character is unethical and morally wrong.
Also, Eclipze I don't think your example is very fitting of Haruhi's character as the intent to harm is already inherent in the action. Regardless if you didn't mean to harm someone else, the intent to harm is already present in that case. In Haruhi's case, she's more like a child trying to get your attention by pulling the tail of a cat who is clearly not enjoying the aggrivation. You (for example are the owner of the cat) aren't very happy since the child is basically torturing your cat, so you scold them. Mission success for the child as (s)he has obtained your attention now.
Speaking of which: @TheLastGuardian & Melange
a little preamble beforehand: Damn you Melange, I clicked on your spoiler! Anyways, I'm not too sure of the context on your ch2 example, but could we consider that as reckless as Haruhi is to the feelings of everyone around her, Kyon is as reckless towards Haruhi's feelings? This is an assumption based on the narration that kind of villifies Haruhi whenever possible and that after Kyon's "trigger" Haruhi seems to attempt to grab Kyon's attention whenever possible.
----
In response to Shirobane
I'm sorry you clicked on the spoiler, but I did put "2nd novel spoilers" for a reason :heh:
There is definitely a basis for assuming that; That Kyon is as reckless towards Haruhi's feelings as she is to the feelings of everyone else. He calls her idiot and stupid many times in his monologues. Of course the difference is that he does it in his own thoughts and not spoken out, though there are times he does call her 'idiot' directly. Re: when pulling Haruhi off 'molesting' Mikuru. In fact, we have to consider that Kyon frequently calls not just Haruhi but a lot of other people 'idiots' etc in his monologues. Example: Taniguchi. Not to mention his simmering hostility towards Itsuki. Kyon isn't completely a goody-two shoes either in that sense
Onizuka-GTO
2006-04-18, 20:03
Is it just me, or does kyon
hostility towards Itsuki seems almost like jealousity?
When ever he's near Mikuru he gets that tone.
it seems to rise to the surface.
panzerfan
2006-04-18, 20:21
Kyon's narriation in ep0 are sarcastic and poignant so... they hint to another level of the obvious facts.
It's not surprising why he would be like that. Itsuki's presense is unsettling from the perspective of the narriator as the omnipresence of the Kyon as a narriator is threatened by where Itsuki stands throughout the story. Kyon, who sees all the antics surrounding Haruhi and her merry pals from his vantage point simply could not take his eyes away from Itsuki... who looks from a distance moreso than Kyon.
No Keitarou, Kyon bleeds out his heartfelt comments in a very 'unassuming' way in ep0 and could be brushed off as mere humor elements. (this makes me like Kyon that much more) There is significant finesse on his part to achieve doublespeak and looks so good doing it.
Kyon is so good with those narriations that he can pass off his bias by being genuine and deadpan. That narriation makes me think and frustrates me... and that's an odd feeling
Onizuka-GTO
2006-04-18, 20:26
well, its good that we know kyon is a "hero" is his own sense. After all...
he doessave the universe from haruhi in some-what uconventional methods, aliken to "sticking you arm into a lion's mouth" so to speak :D :D :D
We salute you Kyon, for your manly sacrifice! :D :D :D :D
Shirobane
2006-04-18, 20:51
Hmm, so I see my post got Haruhi-ed over to this thread :p
Thanks for the response Melange and Thelastguardian from the ep 3 thread.
panzerfan
2006-04-18, 21:00
This has been really fun. It's been a long time since I baked my noddle over any anime and never did I just... think about it for a while and having to let it sink in. I practically sat in my chair as the posts just come in like a floodgate and try to hold onto the ride... slept late waiting for opinions if not answers. We've been having some very interesting conversations and we're not even 1/4 done with Haruhi the anime. This is great.
Onizuka-GTO
2006-04-18, 21:18
This has been really fun. It's been a long time since I baked my noddle over any anime and never did I just... think about it for a while and having to let it sink in. I practically sat in my chair as the posts just come in like a floodgate and try to hold onto the ride... slept late waiting for opinions if not answers. We've been having some very interesting conversations and we're not even 1/4 done with Haruhi the anime. This is great.
yeah know what you mean, i've been sleeping at 7am for a the past week now. dammitr. i blame haruhi. but..but.. i can't stop...must......have...haruhi!!
I'm kinda scared, if im this bad, imagine if i had been expose to those sucidal cults?!!
i'm so glad it was haruhi. :)
haruhiism banzai, :D
Is it just me, or does kyon
hostility towards Itsuki seems almost like jealousity?
When ever he's near Mikuru he gets that tone.
it seems to rise to the surface.
Here's what Kyon thinks of the SOS-dan members (imo):
Haruhi: Trouble-maker, needs to be kept in check or she might accidently destroy the world, or something. Source of headaches.
Kyon complains about Haruhi all the time, but he's actually quite fond of her (he'll never admit it himself though). Through volume 4, we will learn that Haruhi has become an existence that Kyon needed in his life.
-----------
Yuki: Silent alien, THE person to count on when things go wrong. She's the only person who can make things right when Haruhi screws reality up.
Kyon actually likes Yuki quite a lot for her reliability, although he wishes she wouldn't be so emotionless all the time. Yuki was a meganekko (glasses girl) in the beginning, but ever since Kyon said he liked her better without glasses after the Asakura event, Yuki stopped wearing them.
-----------
Mikuru: Time traveller from the future, although she sure doesn't act like one. Needs to be protected.
Kyon considers Mikuru to be his innocent goddess, he loves watching her dressed up in various costumes (his favorite is still her maid costume, which will become Mikuru's "uniform" whenever she's in the SOS-dan club room), and seeing her smile "heals" him from the pains of Haruhi's tyranny.
-----------
Koizumi: Transfer student with supernatural powers. Wears a "smiles-are-free" face all the time, a yes-man, annoying.
From his annoying smiles to his "yes-man" attitude towards Haruhi, Koizumi irritates Kyon, it's that simple. Koizumi's constant reminder to Kyon that he needs to keep Haruhi in check also makes him a real bugger to Kyon.
Haruhi really has worked herself into my daily life as like Onizuka I also have my sleep schedule all messed up because of her. How fitting :heh:
About Kyon's opinion of Mikuru...
Here's what Kyon thinks of the SOS-dan members (imo):
Mikuru: Time traveller from the future, although she sure doesn't act like one. Needs to be protected.
Kyon considers Mikuru to be his innocent goddess, he loves watching her dressed up in various costumes (his favorite is still her maid costume, which will become Mikuru's "uniform" whenever she's in the SOS-dan club room), and seeing her smile "heals" him from the pains of Haruhi's tyranny.
[spoiler=I said novel 2 spoilers so don't click this Shirobane! :heh:]Itsuki suggests towards the end of novel 2 that Mikuru's appearance as a fragile weak girl is directed towards appealing to Kyon's soft spots in order to gain influence over him as the key to Haruhi. Though in light of what happens in the rest of the novel, Itsuki's words may not be trusted but... What do the rest of you think of this? Mikuru does seem to me to be too fragile and too victim-ish to be true even before seeing this explanation and this makes me question her the innocence of her 'innocence'.
I must say that novel 2 has made me look at the 3 'abnormal' characters in a totally different light. Of course their various agendas was present from the beginning this highlights it even more. Though it did make me appreciate Yuki a lot more because she truthfully acknowledges that there is no way to prove to Kyon that what she said is true unlike Itsuki who till then (though he admits it also later) introduces his beliefs as 'truth'.
Thelastguardian
2006-04-19, 02:03
Haruhi really has worked herself into my daily life as like Onizuka I also have my sleep schedule all messed up because of her. How fitting :heh:
About Kyon's opinion of Mikuru...
Itsuki suggests towards the end of novel 2 that Mikuru's appearance as a fragile weak girl is directed towards appealing to Kyon's soft spots in order to gain influence over him as the key to Haruhi. Though in light of what happens in the rest of the novel, Itsuki's words may not be trusted but... What do the rest of you think of this? Mikuru does seem to me to be too fragile and too victim-ish to be true even before seeing this explanation and this makes me question her the innocence of her 'innocence'.
I must say that novel 2 has made me look at the 3 'abnormal' characters in a totally different light. Of course their various agendas was present from the beginning this highlights it even more. Though it did make me appreciate Yuki a lot more because she truthfully acknowledges that there is no way to prove to Kyon that what she said is true unlike Itsuki who till then (though he admits it also later) introduces his beliefs as 'truth'.
Spoiler spoiler tag...
Who knows.
Maybe Mikuru's superior sent Mikuru simply because she is the only "enforcer" in the department that is childish in apparences (you know, we don't know how old Mikuru truely is. She may be older, or *gasp* much younger than Kyon). Or it could be a evil plot for the superior to get an edge over the other two through Mikuru's moe-ness. Mikuru wouldn't know this, of course.
On the other hand, Itsuki doesn't look so hot either. Neither is Yuki.
As they mentioned in the novel, they are technically enemies of each others (well, not Yuki, obviously, because she >>> the other two) . Only one of them could be "right". And the one that is "right" is the original world- the other two worlds are created by Haruhi.
But for now, they are merely observers (and helpers).
panzerfan
2006-04-19, 10:50
Of course, this leaves our point of reference at Kyon. We are forced to take Kyon's POV as absolute as we observe how everything moves around Haruhi (much like how Earth is where we make observations to how the solar system revolves around the sun and how the sun revolves around Alpha Centauri. )
This of course reinforces the discussion between Itsuki and Nagato in ep0.
The question before Kyon is no trivial matter. Not making a decision due to insufficient information is sensible given the context. (Ep0's talk afterall has Kyon instead of Itsuki to the minds of all the actor parties involved)
These are purely random thoughts, although since the anime hasn't gotten into Haruhi's 'abilities' much yet I'll put it in spoiler tags:
Reading these posts reminded me of a story by Scott Adams about what an omnipotent being would do for a challenge. In the story, the answer was the only real challenge for God would be to blow himself/herself up and see if he or she could be re-formed--but I think there are other challenges a Haruhi-like god could come up with.
If you assume gods have the same personalities as people (a big leap, but roll with me here) you'd have a good case for omnipotent beings getting bored as hell, since with unlimited power everything would be exactly the way they want it, with no surprises, nothing out of the ordinary since they'd know everything there is to know. You wouldn't have the thrill of cheering for your favorite sports team since you could just rig things so they'd win every game. I can picture a bored Haruhi sitting in Asgard/Heaven/Mt. Olypmus/etc saying "this sucks, I'm going to Earth since they seem to have more fun than I do--I'll wipe my own memory so I won't know I have these powers, and then can see what it's like to be a puny mortal." It'd be kind of like the god version of a vacation, with the memory erasing part being necessary to have a more authentic experience, but at the end of your life on Earth you'd just go back to being a god, with the memory of your 'vacation' intact.
Another possibility is there are a number of gods in the universe and Haruhi did something that got her kicked out of the realm of the gods--given she's kind of a troublemaker, it's not hard to see that happening. In that case, her punishment might have been to get exiled to Earth with her memory erased, but her powers intact, unknown to her. I think I like the vacation/escape from boredom scenario better though, it seems to fit Haruhi's personality.
panzerfan
2006-04-19, 13:39
Hmm... (it is odd how the discussions on Haruhi, unlike other animes recently, become very metaphysical/philisophical.)
To quote Einstein, 'God does not play dice.' God makes the game and the players and let them play. Since Genesis has 'God created man in his own image' clause and Greek gods act act like soap opera actors, we can say that god bears similar personalities to mortals is not a far-fetched notion.
The assumption that you mentioned suguru would be beyond the novel plots to date I think. The nature of divinity and perhaps humanity are to be answered here. I actually think of Haruhi as a 'layer interface' for human being rather than a deity... which would lead to very different conclusions on the subject matter.
It would be interesting to pit a demi-god against a personafication of humanity as a whole. To me anyway the whole of humanity does not think with a 'socially acceptable common trait', humanity acts against what its own logic concludes, humanity behaves with such wanton disregard for limitation at times that it would be unthinkable for any individual to duplicate in his/her conducts and that humanity is lost in its own confines even as it knows how small it really is in the cosmos. (that was a long sentence)
The scary thing is that in our own words human being is already playing god... starting with gene splicing and cybernetic enhancements.
Another reply about future episode discussion, sorry for the double post. ^^;
===========================
That looks perfectly plausible too, ???????? is absolutely crucial to the story so it must be there. I think the first 7 episodes will probably play out just like the way you listed. 2 ?? episodes and ????? would serve as a good bridge (timeline wise) between volume 1 (??) and volume 4 (??), although there could be other combinations. As for 4 ?? episodes to round out the pack, I agree with that too. The anime will most likely end with the ?? ending, it's a lot more "neutral" compared to ??'s ending.
(But that means Yuki gets to take center stage during the final episodes then. I don't mind though, that "alternate" Yuki moe'd me to death ^^; )
I'm personally looking forward to seeing:
the "alternate" Yuki:
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/1586/323zk.th.jpg (http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=323zk.jpg)
and
Kouyouen Gakuin Haruhi:
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9723/1170eq.th.jpg (http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1170eq.jpg)
Going back to the discussion on future episodes...
Having just started on Vol. 3 Mysterious Sign, I noticed that Emiri from that story seems to show up in the opening too during the psychedelic Haruhi-running-while-the-other-characters-flash-by sequence. Wouldn't that mean that Mysterious Sign is another contender for showing up in the episode line up too?
Going back to the discussion on future episodes...
Having just started on Vol. 3 Mysterious Sign, I noticed that Emiri from that story seems to show up in the opening too during the psychedelic Haruhi-running-while-the-other-characters-flash-by sequence. Wouldn't that mean that Mysterious Sign is another contender for showing up in the episode line up too?
It's possible, although it's not that important of a chapter.
The thing is, if we were to set "The end of volume 4" as the anime's ending, then that would give us a clear range of the short-stories that might be included in the anime. Here's an in-story timeline of the Suzumiya Haruhi series, up to the end of volume 4:
April ~ May (new school term)
+ Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu (From: 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱) (we know this will be covered in the anime, probably without the ending) (Episode 2, 3)
June
+ Suzumiya Haruhi no Taikutsu (From: 涼宮ハルヒの退屈) (the baseball competition) (Episode 4)
July
- Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody (From: 涼宮ハルヒの退屈)
- Mysterious Sign (From: 涼宮ハルヒの退屈)
- Lone Island Syndrome (From: 涼宮ハルヒの退屈)
August (summer holiday)
- Endless Eight (From: 涼宮ハルヒの暴走)
November (culture festival)
- Suzumiya Haruhi no Tameiki (From: 涼宮ハルヒの溜息)
- Live A Live (From: 涼宮ハルヒの動揺)
- Asahina Mikuru no Bouken Episode 00 (From: 涼宮ハルヒの動揺) (Episode 1)
- The Day of Sagittarius (From: 涼宮ハルヒの暴走)
December
+ Suzumiya Haruhi no Shoushitsu (From: 涼宮ハルヒの消失) (The latter/final episodes for the anime)
To clean it up a little,
Here are the stories that comes in between April and December that have not been confirmed in the anime yet:
- Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody (From: 涼宮ハルヒの退屈)
- Mysterious Sign (From: 涼宮ハルヒの退屈)
- Lone Island Syndrome (From: 涼宮ハルヒの退屈)
- Endless Eight (From: 涼宮ハルヒの暴走)
- Suzumiya Haruhi no Tameiki (From: 涼宮ハルヒの溜息)
- Live a Live (From: 涼宮ハルヒの動揺)
- The Day of Sagittarius (From: 涼宮ハルヒの暴走)
Personally, I don't think Lone Island Syndrome would work, since it's relatively long and totally seperated from the rest of the story. As for Suzumiya Haruhi no Tameiki... Maybe a couple of episodes (since it's a whole volume) if they want to do a follow up for Episode 00 or something. Live A Live is the culture festival day just before the airing of Episode 00. Again, not that crucial.
This means, for me personally, the possible choices are:
- Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody (From: 涼宮ハルヒの退屈)
- Mysterious Sign (From: 涼宮ハルヒの退屈)
- Endless Eight (From: 涼宮ハルヒの暴走)
- The Day of Sagittarius (From: 涼宮ハルヒの暴走)
Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody is totally crucial to volume 4, so it's almost 100% certain it'll be in.
Mysterious Sign isn't all that important, but since Emiri is in the OP, maybe it'll be in too?
Endless Eight is a good fanservice episode, it wouldn't hurt to have it ^^; (it would also explain the 15498 over at the official site's activity log (http://www.haruhi.tv/activitylog.html))
The Day of Sagittarius would be a perfect intro to volume 4 (well, it IS the final event before volume 4), and Super Admiral Haruhi would be interesting to see too. ^^;
My version of the episode list, then, would probably look like:
第1話 朝比奈ミクルの冒険 Episode 00
第2話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅰ
第3話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅱ
第4話 涼宮ハルヒの退屈
第5話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅲ
第6話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅳ
第7話 笹の葉ラプソディ
第8話 ミステリックサイン
第9話 エンドレスエイト
第10話 射手座の日
第11話 涼宮ハルヒの消失Ⅰ
第12話 涼宮ハルヒの消失Ⅱ
第13話 涼宮ハルヒの消失Ⅲ
第14話 涼宮ハルヒの消失Ⅳ
Of course, this doesn't take into consideration of the fact that the in-story timeline is being messed up (episode 4's baseball tournament happening during volume 1, for example), and Haruhi's whole "episode 7" thing... Given the fact that episode 2 and 3 (憂鬱Ⅰand Ⅱ) each covered about 60 pages of volume 1, assuming the pace remains the same, 2 more episodes (憂鬱 Ⅲ and Ⅳ) should be more than enough to cover the rest of volume 1 (save the ending) (60 pages x 4 = 240 pages). On top of that, this means that Ⅲ would probably stop on page 180: right at the beginning of Kyon's confrontation with Asakura. Ⅳ should then finish off volume 1 contents nicely. After that, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to move on to Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody (ep7), which is literally a turning point for the story. After that, we come back for some lighter episodes like Mysterious Sign (ep8) and Endless Eight (ep9), before letting The Day of Sagittarius (ep10) lead us into volume 4 (消失) (ep11-14)
In case you can't tell, I love pointlessly guessing future episode directions. ^^;
It's possible, although it's not that important of a chapter.
The thing is, if we were to set "The end of volume 4" as the anime's ending, then that would give us a clear range of the short-stories that might be included in the anime. Here's an in-story timeline of the Suzumiya Haruhi series, up to the end of volume 4:
April ~ May (new school term)
+ Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu (From: ????????) (we know this will be covered in the anime, probably without the ending) (Episode 2, 3)
June
+ Suzumiya Haruhi no Taikutsu (From: ????????) (the baseball competition) (Episode 4)
July
- Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody (From: ????????)
- Mysterious Sign (From: ????????)
- Lone Island Syndrome (From: ????????)
August (summer holiday)
- Endless Eight (From: ????????)
November (culture festival)
- Suzumiya Haruhi no Tameiki (From: ????????)
- Live A Live (From: ????????)
- Asahina Mikuru no Bouken Episode 00 (From: ????????) (Episode 1)
- The Sagittarius Day (From: ????????)
December
+ Suzumiya Haruhi no Shoushitsu (From: ????????) (The latter/final episodes for the anime)
To clean it up a little,
Here are the stories that comes in between April and December that have not been confirmed in the anime yet:
- Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody (From: ????????)
- Mysterious Sign (From: ????????)
- Lone Island Syndrome (From: ????????)
- Endless Eight (From: ????????)
- Suzumiya Haruhi no Tameiki (From: ????????)
- Live a Live (From: ????????)
- The Day of Sagittarius (From: ????????)
Personally, I don't think Lone Island Syndrome would work, since it's relatively long and totally seperated from the rest of the story. As for Suzumiya Haruhi no Tameiki... Maybe a couple of episodes (since it's a whole volume) if they want to do a follow up for Episode 00 or something. Live A Live is the culture festival day just before the airing of Episode 00. Again, not that crucial.
This means, for me personally, the possible choices are:
- Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody (From: ????????)
- Mysterious Sign (From: ????????)
- Endless Eight (From: ????????)
- The Sagittarius Day (From: ????????)
Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody is totally crucial to volume 4, so it's almost 100% certain it'll be in.
Mysterious Sign isn't all that important, but since Emiri is in the OP, maybe it'll be in too?
Endless Eight is a good fanservice episode, it wouldn't hurt to have it ^^; (it would also explain the 15498 over at the official site's activity log (http://www.haruhi.tv/activitylog.html))
The Sagittarius Day would be a perfect intro to volume 4 (well, it IS the final event before volume 4), and Super Admiral Haruhi would be interesting to see too. ^^;
My version of the episode list, then, would probably look like:
?1??????????? Episode 00
?2???????????
?3???????????
?4??????????
?5???????????
?6???????????
?7??????????
?8???????????
?9??????????
?10???????
?11???????????
?12???????????
?13???????????
?14???????????
Of course, this doesn't take into consideration of the fact that the in-story timeline is being messed up (episode 4's baseball tournament happening during volume 1, for example), and Haruhi's whole "episode 7" thing... Given the fact that episode 2 and 3 (???and ?) each covered about 60 pages of volume 1, assuming the pace remains the same, 2 more episodes (?? ? and ?) should be more than enough to cover the rest of volume 1 (save the ending) (60 pages x 4 = 240 pages). On top of that, this means that ? would probably stop on page 180: right at the beginning of Kyon's confrontation with Asakura. ? should then finish off volume 1 contents nicely. After that, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to move on to Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody (ep7), which is literally a turning point for the story. After that, we come back for some lighter episodes like Mysterious Sign (ep8) and Endless Eight (ep9), before letting The Sagittarius Day (ep10) lead us into volume 4 (??) (ep11-14)
In case you can't tell, I love pointlessly guessing future episode directions. ^^;
*lets out a small tameiki* Well any attempt I have at trying to discuss the episode line-up is going to be handicapped by my plodding progress through the novels but...
My guess here is they will have to directly link Itsuki's explanation/demonstration in Vol 1 with Itsuki's warning about the shinjin appearing during the baseball match in Taikutsu. The Taikutsu match doesn't really stand alone without the subtext of the shinjin so it would make sense to put the shinjin in front of the match but then we would have Yuki's explanation immediately followed by Itsuki's explanation which might be too much. So I'm thinking Yuki's explanation -> Itsuki's intro -> baseball match leading straight to shinjin. This of course brings up the matter of how to handle Kyon's non-knowledge of the necessity of having Haruhi win, unless they simply have Itsuki and Yuki conspiring to rig the match and Kyon watching what happens in absolute disbelief. Ermm.. yea :heh:
Edit:
Whether it will be used in the middle of the anime or as the end of the anime is another question, but using the same logic as that for Emiri's appearance, I think they will be using Vol. 1's ending somewhere. Why else would they display Yuki's "また図書館に" line so prominently in the opening?
Whether it will be used in the middle of the anime or as the end of the anime is another question, but using the same logic as that for Emiri's appearance, I think they will be using Vol. 1's ending somewhere. Why else would they display Yuki's "また図書館に" line so prominently in the opening?
Mumumu... I missed that (or rather, I couldn't even remember where that line was from. :heh: "YUKI.N> sleeping beauty" would've been much more recognizable... or maybe that spoils too much? ^^; )... So maybe they will cover the entire volume 1 after all? It would probably explain Haruhi's "episode 7" thing if Yuutsu really does go on for 6 episodes... (If Haruhi is trying to follow the in-story timeline at all, that is)
Well, since volume 1 and 4 are the most important ones here, I personally wouldn't mind seeing them spend more time on either, but it'd be nice to have a few side-story episodes too. At the very least, I would really love to see them do Endless Eight... Although there's nothing to suggest it from the OP/ED...
Shirobane
2006-04-21, 00:33
Wow, after reading the translations at baka-tsuki, Kyo-Ani did leave a huge chunk of interaction out of The apartment scene with Yuki and Kyon in episode 3.
With the elimination of the explanation of Haruhi from Yuki, is there any other chapter in which the story goes in and develops Haruhi as an enigmatic character? Or maybe a flashback conveniently placed later on in the series of the interaction between Kyon and Yuki about Haruhi's "powers"
I kinda wonder how KyoAni is going to develop Haruhi from episode 3 onwards.
Mumumu... I missed that (or rather, I couldn't even remember where that line was from. :heh: "YUKI.N> sleeping beauty" would've been much more recognizable... or maybe that spoils too much? ^^; )... So maybe they will cover the entire volume 1 after all? It would probably explain Haruhi's "episode 7" thing if Yuutsu really does go on for 6 episodes... (If Haruhi is trying to follow the in-story timeline at all, that is)
Well, since volume 1 and 4 are the most important ones here, I personally wouldn't mind seeing them spend more time on either, but it'd be nice to have a few side-story episodes too. At the very least, I would really love to see them do Endless Eight... Although there's nothing to suggest it from the OP/ED...
I do think "Sleeping Beauty" itself may spoil too much, but unless someone's read the novel they're not going to be able to make that connection so easily on their own :heh: In any case "また図書館に" is the line just before "sleeping beauty"... It kinda stood out for me precisely because it was there in the opening so I was looking out for that line when I was reading the novel. I personally do want them to cover Vol.1's ending... I'll be reading Vol.4's ending in about 200++ pages soon so... I'll see then which one I prefer as a series end :D
Wow, after reading the translations at baka-tsuki, Kyo-Ani did leave a huge chunk of interaction out of The apartment scene with Yuki and Kyon in episode 3.
With the elimination of the explanation of Haruhi from Yuki, is there any other chapter in which the story goes in and develops Haruhi as an enigmatic character? Or maybe a flashback conveniently placed later on in the series of the interaction between Kyon and Yuki about Haruhi's "powers"
I kinda wonder how KyoAni is going to develop Haruhi from episode 3 onwards.
They actually just stopped at precisely the moment in the novel Yuki tells Kyon that she's (and Haruhi) are not normal humans, just before she goes into long-winded explanation mode. So its too early to say they "eliminated" the explanation because they may very well just pick off where they left off in the next episode continuing with Yuki's scene.
Shirobane
2006-04-21, 00:52
They actually just stopped at precisely the moment in the novel Yuki tells Kyon that she's (and Haruhi) are not normal humans, just before she goes into long-winded explanation mode. So its too early to say they "eliminated" the explanation because they may very well just pick off where they left off in the next episode continuing with Yuki's scene.
Hmm that's a possibility but judging from what I've read, the entire breadth of Yuki's description would probably have to be incorporated within the show and also judging from Yuki's character (and the content of course) it's longwinded because it has to be. Also there's the question of how they could smoothly transition from their 4-person team into the 7-8 person team shown in the previews if they were to continue off from Yuki's "monolgue." I'd assume that they'd need to make some room for the introductions of Tsuyura and Itsuki and unless Tsuyura is a really minor character, I believe a decent introduction is in order, which basically leaves no room for actual storytelling =/
Then again, I haven't ordered my copies of the novels yet so I don't know much :heh:
panzerfan
2006-04-21, 00:52
(Well we'll see if that actually gets animated. At any rate I have my sig ready for it ^^)
Hmm that's a possibility but judging from what I've read, the entire breadth of Yuki's description would probably have to be incorporated within the show and also judging from Yuki's character (and the content of course) it's longwinded because it has to be. Also there's the question of how they could smoothly transition from their 4-person team into the 7-8 person team shown in the previews if they were to continue off from Yuki's "monolgue." I'd assume that they'd need to make some room for the introductions of Tsuyura and Itsuki and unless Tsuyura is a really minor character, I believe a decent introduction is in order, which basically leaves no room for actual storytelling =/
Then again, I haven't ordered my copies of the novels yet so I don't know much :heh:
The concerns you bring up there and the handling of the timing of placing the baseball event before all the explanations have been made are precisely why I'm feeling particularly anxious about the next episode. *crosses fingers*
(Well we'll see if that actually gets animated. At any rate I have my sig ready for it ^^)What do you mean? Its already animated! That line is sitting there right in the opening!! :D .......Oh you meant the Vol. 1 ending? :heh:
Shirobane
2006-04-21, 01:07
The concerns you bring up there and the handling of the timing of placing the baseball event before all the explanations have been made are precisely why I'm feeling particularly anxious about the next episode. *crosses fingers*
I guess in times like these, all you can do is have faith. I'll proclaim it now, I have faith in KyoAni and in Haruhi!
(Well we'll see if that actually gets animated. At any rate I have my sig ready for it ^^)
Your sig is inexplicably confusing to people who haven't read the novels :P (well ok maybe it's just me...)
I hope no one's brain explodes from thinking it over too much
panzerfan
2006-04-21, 01:13
Well I agree with the assumptions made by Sushi-Y over how the story will play out actually. Personally I would like to see season 2 of Haruhi instead of having everything crammed into 13+1 eps.
If KyoAni's direction is of any indication... flashback or some form of a 'dream' might be the way how that conversation which is omitted will come back to us. The secret left untold is more mind-boggling anyway.
(again, my sig is 'ready' for even what's coming next... nihaha)
I guess in times like these, all you can do is have faith. I'll proclaim it now, I have faith in KyoAni and in Haruhi!
True... but I still feel anxious! :heh:
Well I agree with the assumptions made by Sushi-Y over how the story will play out actually. Personally I would like to see season 2 of Haruhi instead of having everything crammed into 13+1 eps.
If KyoAni's direction is of any indication... flashback or some form of a 'dream' might be the way how that conversation which is omitted will come back to us. The secret left untold is more mind-boggling anyway.
(again, my sig is 'ready' for even what's coming next... nihaha)
There's absolutely no way it can be crammed into 13+1 eps. If they did it wouldn't do Haruhi justice at all. I do hope they don't 'withold' the secret too long. Part of the fun of reading the more 'fillerish' stories was the knowledge of those secrets hovering in the background of all the character antics.
(hmm.. maybe I should start weedling "John Smith" into my signature somewhere :D)
(hmm.. maybe I should start weedling "John Smith" into my signature somewhere :D)
Better be careful with that name. In the hands of the wrong person (Kyon), it could literally destroy the world. :heh:
YUKI. N> HWEBGEN2 -"../Kanon/Rev2/Kanon2.1" -OPEN
????!!!!
A-re? Whats this? :heh:
Better be careful with that name. In the hands of the wrong person (Kyon), it could literally destroy the world. :heh:
"Sleeping Beauty" X "John Smith" コレでは世界を滅ばないだろう:heh:
Shirobane
2006-04-21, 02:14
Rofl, I understand the sig now :heh:
Onizuka-GTO
2006-04-21, 07:02
"Sleeping Beauty" X "John Smith" コレでは世界を滅ばないだろう:heh:
What's this got to do with Beer? :confused:
wakanai zo! :upset:
What's this got to do with Beer? :confused:
wakanai zo! :upset:
LOL Nothing at all... you'll understand soon :heh:
Going back to episode speculations...
First of let me just say that it was a mistake for me to start on Vol. 4 in the wee hours of the morning. Thanks to the story I have not slept a wink and have class in an hour and a half :heh: One of the few books that have strung my emotions along with what happens to the characters so well...
1. I think there's a tiny bit more support for the Mysterious Sign to appear in the episode list because there is a small reference in Vol. 4 to something Yuki said in Mysterious Sign that helps to explain something. Mysterious Sign also hints particularly strongly at the motivation for "someone" to do what happens in Vol 4. Not to say it isn't hinted at elsewhere but I think it is given the most emphasis in Mysterious Sign.
2. And I think that if they want to do Vol 4's ending, they have to do Vol 1's ending. Or else the explanation of where a certain "someone" 'acquired/mimicked' the power to do what happens in Vol 4 would kind of fall flat without the prior 'precedent' of Vol 1.
やっと四券まで辿り着いた...
Onizuka-GTO
2006-04-21, 07:49
LOL Nothing at all... you'll understand soon :heh:
Going back to episode speculations...
First of let me just say that it was a mistake for me to start on Vol. 4 in the wee hours of the morning. Thanks to the story I have not slept a wink and have class in an hour and a half :heh: One of the few books that have strung my emotions along with what happens to the characters so well...
1. I think there's a tiny bit more support for the Mysterious Sign to appear in the episode list because there is a small reference in Vol. 4 to something Yuki said in Mysterious Sign that helps to explain something.
2. And I think that if they want to do Vol 4's ending, they have to do Vol 1's ending. Or else the explanation of where a certain "someone" 'acquired/mimicked' the power to do what happens in Vol 4 would kind of fall flat without the prior 'precedent' of Vol 1.
やっと四券まで辿り着いた...
You can read the novel?!
*contemplates kidnapping Melange for Haruhi Novel Translation Project*
mmm...black hood.....shock baton.....cake.....:D
Shirobane
2006-04-21, 09:52
You can read the novel?!
*contemplates kidnapping Melange for Haruhi Novel Translation Project*
mmm...black hood.....shock baton.....cake.....:D
You may also need pictures of suggested sexual harassment of Mikuru to wheel him in :heh:
You can read the novel?!
*contemplates kidnapping Melange for Haruhi Novel Translation Project*
mmm...black hood.....shock baton.....cake.....:D
Sorry, not unless said kidnapper is Haruhi herself :p
You may also need pictures of suggested sexual harassment of Mikuru to wheel him in :heh:
Unfortunately Mikuru doesn't really do it for me compared to Haruhi and Yuki :D Vol. 4 Yuki wa moe yo moe!
But more seriously, it doesn't really fit my 'schedule' (if you can call it that) to do translations... maybe later.
Shirobane
2006-04-21, 10:32
Sorry, not unless said kidnapper is Haruhi herself :p
Unfortunately Mikuru doesn't really do it for me compared to Haruhi and Yuki :D Vol. 4 Yuki wa moe yo moe!
Oh no, I think you've mistaken the intent, those pics are to be released on the web so that Mikuru fans would burn you at the stake if you don't comply :heh:
Haruhi's character is beginning to really rub off on me :p
panzerfan
2006-04-21, 10:37
I am not sure if Haruhi rubbing off is a good thing or otherwise...
PastPrime
2006-04-21, 12:18
I have seen the theory posted that Haruhi might have created Kyon with her powers because she needed someone like him. But what if the opposite was true. Kyon was the bored god, unaware of his powers, and he created or changed Haruhi in order to bring some excitement into his life. The time when he quit believing in Aliens, ect., is probably close to the time of Haruhi's first known use of her powers.
LOL Nothing at all... you'll understand soon :heh:
Going back to episode speculations...
First of let me just say that it was a mistake for me to start on Vol. 4 in the wee hours of the morning. Thanks to the story I have not slept a wink and have class in an hour and a half :heh: One of the few books that have strung my emotions along with what happens to the characters so well...
1. I think there's a tiny bit more support for the Mysterious Sign to appear in the episode list because there is a small reference in Vol. 4 to something Yuki said in Mysterious Sign that helps to explain something. Mysterious Sign also hints particularly strongly at the motivation for "someone" to do what happens in Vol 4. Not to say it isn't hinted at elsewhere but I think it is given the most emphasis in Mysterious Sign.
2. And I think that if they want to do Vol 4's ending, they have to do Vol 1's ending. Or else the explanation of where a certain "someone" 'acquired/mimicked' the power to do what happens in Vol 4 would kind of fall flat without the prior 'precedent' of Vol 1.
やっと四券まで辿り着いた...
x 四券
o 四巻
読み終わったか、おめでとう~。さあ、あとは八巻(涼宮ハルヒの憤慨)が発売される前に既刊全巻を読破する こと。ちなみに憤慨の発売日は04/28だそうです。（￣∇￣）ﾉ(Amazon (http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/4044292086/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_1/249-6118575-1765906))
1. If we're just trying to show the motivation (or rather, cause) of that "someone" for doing the things in vol.4., I think Endless Eight would probably be a much better choice over Mysterious Sign. After all, Mysterious Sign wasn't all THAT much of a problem, and it ended quickly, causing minimal "disturbance" for that "someone". Endless Eight, on the other hand, probably would've drove any normal human being crazy if they were placed in that "someone"'s position.
2. Perhaps, I'm not saying it won't happen. In fact, I want to see them do volume 1's ending (a dere Haruhi only comes once in a blue moon, after all). It's up to them how to distribute the episodes though. I just hope they can get some of those short-stories in too.
Oh no, I think you've mistaken the intent, those pics are to be released on the web so that Mikuru fans would burn you at the stake if you don't comply :heh:
*copies Haruhi's not-hearing-stuff-she-doesn't-want-to-hear trick*:D
Once again back to Episode stuff... :heh: (gezz why didn't I think of this all at once?)
x 四券
o 四巻
読み終わったか、おめでとう~。さあ、あとは八巻(涼宮ハルヒの憤慨)が発売される前に既刊全 巻を読破する こと。ちなみに憤慨の発売日は04/28だそうです。（￣∇￣）ﾉ(Amazon)
Ah... 券>巻 That's what you get for trying to hold a coherent thought after a whole nights of no sleep :heh: えっ、なんか終わりが見えなくなる気がする... っていうか７日しかないじゃん?! T_T
1. If we're just trying to show the motivation (or rather, cause) of that "someone" for doing the things in vol.4., I think Endless Eight would probably be a much better choice over Mysterious Sign. After all, Mysterious Sign wasn't all THAT much of a problem, and it ended quickly, causing minimal "disturbance" for that "someone". Endless Eight, on the other hand, probably would've drove any normal human being crazy if they were placed in that "someone"'s position.
2. Perhaps, I'm not saying it won't happen. In fact, I want to see them do volume 1's ending (a dere Haruhi only comes once in a blue moon, after all). It's up to them how to distribute the episodes though. I just hope they can get some of those short-stories in too.
I can't answer "1." but I'll take your word for it :D But then I still can't shake Emiri's appearance in the opening away... unless she appears somewhere else also? The more I look at it the less there seems to be places to squeeze in more side stories. 14 Episodes to play with...
Already aired Asahina Mikuru no Bouken. 1 ep = 13 left.
Assuming from Yuki's "また図書館に" line in the opening, the whole of Yuu-utsu is used at the earlier propsed rate of 6 eps = 7 left.
Assuming from the nabe scene in the ending, the whole of Soushitsu is used at the earlier proposed rate of 4 eps = 3 left.
The already confirmed Taikutsu. 1 ep = 2 left.
The completely necessary Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody. 1 ep = 1 left
Assuming from Emiri's appearnace in the opening, Mysterious Sign is used. 1 ep. = 0 left
This would mean the only side stories involved are: Taikutsu, Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody and Mysterious Sign. If they manage to squeeze some of Yuu-utsu's introductions/explanations in Taikutsu then maybe there might be space for another side story... unless our calculations on how many eps it would take to animate Yuu-utsu and Soushitsu are completely off...
Thelastguardian
2006-04-21, 18:47
読み終わったか、おめでとう~。さあ、あとは八巻(涼宮ハルヒの憤慨)が発売される前に既刊全巻を読破する こと。ちなみに憤慨の発売日は04/28だそうです。（￣∇￣）ﾉ
憤慨? That's a pretty strong word :heh: .
Vol1 ending does has its appeal- almost like an epic feeling?
Scored dude! All those troubles finally pay off buhahahaha.
The ending shows how important Kyon is to Haruhi.
On the other hand, Vol4's
ending shows how important Haruhi is to Kyon.
Maybe KyoAni will pull a rabbit out of a hat and combine those two? (Nah....)
panzerfan
2006-04-21, 18:56
So the Resentment of Suzumiya Haruhi... (Vehemence of Suzumiya Haruhi?) Vehement > resent?
Shirobane
2006-04-22, 01:24
Hmm, volume 1 seems to emphasize 3-years ago a lot, being that
3 years ago there was an unexpected spike in data creation, time quakes, and the fact that Kyon's grandmother started calling him "Kyon" for some reason.
(that's all I've gotten so far since I'm following online translations :p)
I'm sensing a critical plot device from that, wonder if it'll play a large role in the anime.
panzerfan
2006-04-22, 01:48
All of a sudden I had a crazy thought...
This would be definitely not possible but it came across my mind anyway. Could Haruhi actually had the "dream of the stars" that yokujin inherit generation after generation '3 years ago'? That would be nasty...
The dream of the stars is a matter of inheritence for the yokujin in AIR. Cut off at Kannabinomikoto and supposively this dream, appended generation by generation breaks any human container which has the misfortune of being Kanna's alter ego. Then again, Haruhi's no ordinary human...
Hmm, volume 1 seems to emphasize 3-years ago a lot, being that
3 years ago there was an unexpected spike in data creation, time quakes, and the fact that Kyon's grandmother started calling him "Kyon" for some reason.
(that's all I've gotten so far since I'm following online translations :p)
I'm sensing a critical plot device from that, wonder if it'll play a large role in the anime.
There's certainly something important about it, but you won't know the details until the Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody (from vol.3) and Suzumiya Haruhi no Shoushitsu (vol.4). Both of which should be eventually covered in the anime, so look forward to them.
Bloodseeker
2006-04-22, 12:28
I hate it when I can't resist the urge to look inside the spoiler tags. At least I only know about Haruhi. I still have no clue about Mikuru or any of the others...
Thelastguardian
2006-04-22, 19:49
*before episode 4 airs*
My hypothesis-
1話 朝比奈ミクルの冒険
2話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅰ
3話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅱ
4話 涼宮ハルヒの退屈 I
5話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅲ
6話 笹の葉ラプソディ
7話 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅳ
8話 涼宮ハルヒの退屈 II
9話 涼宮ハルヒの溜息Ⅰ
10話 涼宮ハルヒの溜息Ⅱ
11話 射手座の日
12話 涼宮ハルヒの消失Ⅰ
13話 涼宮ハルヒの消失Ⅱ
14話 涼宮ハルヒの消失Ⅲ
I have a feeling KyoAni might try to do the following-
intro Yuki=> shows her power with the baseball game => intro Mikuru => shows her power with the bamboon incident => intro Itsuki => shows his power by the dimension demonstration + island => filming
The rest are just wild guesses.
I don't think 涼宮ハルヒの消失 will have three episodes. The book itself is very short (only 2/3 - 3/5 the thickness of 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱 volume). Furthermore, the story itself is too short for three episodes. Personally I think the studio can finish it in one episode if they want.
panzerfan
2006-04-22, 20:49
I had to get this stuff out of ep3 discussion. :p
Another interesting explaination to why is it we human typically are dull and are square, thus failing to see quantum indeterminacy in a universe where the interminacy laps on top of one another going from microscopic to macroscopic and it'll go like an inifinite recursion... (von Neumann's crisis)
* Wigner's friend resolves the inconsistency by asserting that human consciousness not only measures the physical world, but physically changes it from an indeterminate state to an absolute environment. This is known as the Consciousness causes collapse theory. (Esse est Percipi, to be is to be perceived!)
* According to the Copenhagen interpretation, humans created the quantum state vector because it was the only known way to describe the subatomic world mathematically, but there is no catastrophe because quantum mechanics doesn't exist in any real sense.
* The Many-worlds interpretation asserts that humans don't notice the indeterminate state of the universe because all possibilities but the one we observe happen in other dimensions that are beyond our ability to directly monitor.
* The Bohm interpretation avoids catastrophe and allows for determinism without splitting the universe into many worlds by asserting that the positions of particles are fixed by latent variables that are definite in cause and effect, but which can only be calculated in terms of probability by humans. (Like how that we don't know the exact formula for drop rate in MMORPG but we do know of the probability for drops)
* The Transactional interpretation allows for only one measurement while also permitting the existence of the entire wavefunction by requiring that the observer only detect the part of the source wave that phases positively with his own advanced wave. (We filter anything else as just noise... or we can't 'see' it)
I am starting to see the key characters are in some ways representations of these 5 views of Quantum Interminacy vs. reality to human beings.
In the case of Haruhi, she's going to be Conscious cause collapse where the more you can collapse, the more you can perceive the waves.
Kyon would fit Copenhagen interpretation. Measurement outcomes are fundamentally indeterministic.
I am much reminded of what Mikuru said about her impact to 'presence'. The nature of Yuki also comes to play here... makes me wonder then whether if Kyon just doesn't 'see' the incompability between all the parties around him.
intro Yuki=> shows her power with the baseball game => intro Mikuru => shows her power with the bamboon incident => intro Itsuki => shows his power by the dimension demonstration + island => filming
By island you mean 孤島症候群 (Lone Island Syndrome)? Is there a particular reason for that choice? Because I can't see any reason to do a chapter that's pretty much completely unrelated to the rest of the story, and it didn't really show Koizumi's power (or anyone else's, for that matter) either.
I don't think 涼宮ハルヒの消失 will have three episodes. The book itself is very short (only 2/3 - 3/5 the thickness of 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱 volume). Furthermore, the story itself is too short for three episodes. Personally I think the studio can finish it in one episode if they want.
Actually, volume 1 has 300 pages, and volume 4 has 250. Shoushitsu might look "short" if you only look at the book thickness, but it's really only 50 pages (1/6th) shorter than Yuutsu. If you ask me, I'd rather see Kyoani spend 4 or more episodes to flesh out Shoushitsu to it's fullest, rather than go for a summarized version in 1 or 2 episodes.
By island you mean ????? (Lone Island Syndrome)? Is there a particular reason for that choice? Because I can't see any reason to do a chapter that's pretty much completely unrelated to the rest of the story, and it didn't really show Koizumi's (or anyone else's, for that matter) either.
Actually, volume 1 has 300 pages, and volume 4 has 250. Shoushitsu might look "short" if you only look at the book thickness, but it's really only 50 pages (1/6th) shorter than Yuutsu. If you ask me, I'd rather see Kyoani spend 4 or more episodes to flesh out Shoushitsu to it's fullest, rather than go for a summarized version in 1 or 2 episodes.
Agreed on both accounts. Lone Island Syndrome was not a particularly interesting story especially once it was revealed what 'actually happened' :eyebrow: "All that set up and then this?" was my reaction. All it really does is showcase the organization that backs Itsuki. The only thing I liked about it was
Haruhi 'realizing' Kyon et al are the 'real murderers' but refuses to reveal it presumably cos she didn't want Kyon to be 'arrested'... which was so sweet :D awww
Shoushitsu was the story that hit me the most emotionally. I really want them to go into Kyon's emotions as much as possible. If Shoushitsu is done as well as the novel is then it would be the 'pay off' arc for all the people who have grown accustomed to and fallen in love with the characters. Even if they don't use the predicted 4 eps, to squeeze Shoushitsu into 3 eps would be the absolute minimum. 1 or 2 eps won't do it justice...
Thelastguardian
2006-04-23, 01:46
By island you mean 孤島症候群 (Lone Island Syndrome)? Is there a particular reason for that choice? Because I can't see any reason to do a chapter that's pretty much completely unrelated to the rest of the story, and it didn't really show Koizumi's power (or anyone else's, for that matter) either.
Well, it does show how much resources "the Organization" can muster if nothing else. But it is good material for a filler episode.
Actually, volume 1 has 300 pages, and volume 4 has 250. Shoushitsu might look "short" if you only look at the book thickness, but it's really only 50 pages (1/6th) shorter than Yuutsu. If you ask me, I'd rather see Kyoani spend 4 or more episodes to flesh out Shoushitsu to it's fullest, rather than go for a summarized version in 1 or 2 episodes.
Since I don't have the actual book with me at the moment (not here with me right now), I can't really count the pages. What I do remember is my reaction when I opened the package
"...it's so thin! OMG!"
*grabs the first volume and lay them side-by-side*
"WTF I got cheated out of my targeted enjoy time!"
lol. But then again, the same thinning happened to Shak. no Shana novels, so.... :^)
But 4 episodes? That is definitely way too long.
Episode A. Kyon goes to school as normal. Meets his friends. Goes back home. Comes back the next day, sees Ryouko and realizes that Something Is Horriblely Wrong.
Episode B. Kyon does his crazy acts. Got slapped by Mikuru and her bodyguard (figuratively). Sees Yuki, who had a 180 personality change. Gets his little bookmark from normal Yuki and the club joining document. Goes back home, comes back the next day, his best friend suggests that Kyon meant SH in that private school. Kyon runs/bikes to the school and ambushed SH and Itsuki.
Episode C. Both of them didn't know Kyon, but after Kyon mentioned "John Smith" (is that the name? don't remember), SH became interested. The three sneaked into the school, kidnapped Mikuru, and cornered Yuki. The "key" unlocked, with Kyon back to 3 years ago.
Episode D. Kyon meets future Mikuru, who just parted with past Kyon. Both go to Yuki's flat, figure out everything, and go 3 years forward. Kyon makes the decision to stop Yuki. When they tried to ambush "malfunctioning" Yuki, Kyon got stab. Kyon wakes up, sees everyone is all right, confront/comfort Yuki, and has the Christmas party.
That is a bit long(a bit long?!) drawn out for my taste. I think they can manage it with 2 episodes. The studio doesn't want to slow the series down, after all/
Well, it does show how much resources "the Organization" can muster if nothing else. But it is good material for a filler episode.
You want a good filler episode? Endless Eight: Fanservice + one of the better short-stories + a good example for Yuki's reason to do what she did in Shoushitsu.
But 4 episodes? That is definitely way too long.
Episode A. Kyon goes to school as normal. Meets his friends. Goes back home. Comes back the next day, sees Ryouko and realizes that Something Is Horriblely Wrong.
Episode B. Kyon does his crazy acts. Got slapped by Mikuru and her bodyguard (figuratively). Sees Yuki, who had a 180 personality change. Gets his little bookmark from normal Yuki and the club joining document. Goes back home, comes back the next day, his best friend suggests that Kyon meant SH in that private school. Kyon runs/bikes to the school and ambushed SH and Itsuki.
Episode C. Both of them didn't know Kyon, but after Kyon mentioned "John Smith" (is that the name? don't remember), SH became interested. The three sneaked into the school, kidnapped Mikuru, and cornered Yuki. The "key" unlocked, with Kyon back to 3 years ago.
Episode D. Kyon meets future Mikuru, who just parted with past Kyon. Both go to Yuki's flat, figure out everything, and go 3 years forward. Kyon makes the decision to stop Yuki. When they tried to ambush "malfunctioning" Yuki, Kyon got stab. Kyon wakes up, sees everyone is all right, confront/comfort Yuki, and has the Christmas party.
That is a bit long(a bit long?!) drawn out for my taste. I think they can manage it with 2 episodes. The studio doesn't want to slow the series down, after all/
I don't see anything wrong with that. After all, Kyoani's been taking their time so far with Yuutsu too, and the fans couldn't be happier with the pace (besides the fact that episode 3 got cut off at a weird place).
It's true that Yuutsu, as an "introduction" volume, contained more seperate (character specific) events, which makes it appear to have more contents than Shoushitsu. But really, other than the fact that Shoushitsu was focused only on a single incident, there are just as much contents in that volume as there are in Yuutsu. Personally, there has been more memorable events in Shoushitsu than Yuutsu for me, and for it to be summarized in only 1 or 2 episodes will definately not be doing it justice.
Well, it does show how much resources "the Organization" can muster if nothing else. But it is good material for a filler episode.
I don't think showing the "Organization"s resources is as solid a reason for using it. The only caveat I can think of right now for the use of Lone Island Syndrome in this season is so that in a possible 2nd season the Snow Mountain (sic) chapter can be used.
You want a good filler episode? Endless Eight: Fanservice + one of the better short-stories + a good example for Yuki's reason to do what she did in Shoushitsu.
Even if its not Endless Eight (my 1st choice too now after reading it), another good fillerish episode would be The Day of Sagittarius: possible full SOS-brigade cosplay op + also hints at Yuki's reason.
I don't see anything wrong with that. After all, Kyoani's been taking their time so far with Yuutsu too, and the fans couldn't be happier with the pace (besides the fact that episode 3 got cut off at a weird place).
It's true that Yuutsu, as an "introduction" volume, contained more seperate (character specific) events, which makes it appear to have more contents than Shoushitsu. But really, other than the fact that Shoushitsu was focused only on a single incident, there are just as much contents in that volume as there are in Yuutsu. Personally, there has been more memorable events in Shoushitsu than Yuutsu for me, and for it to be summarized in only 1 or 2 episodes will definately not be doing it justice.
Shoushitsu's "single incident" weaves together many of the disparate themes lying around in many of the earlier stories including links to Yuuutsu, Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, Mysterious Sign etc. I am interested in how Kyo-ani will make it feel as disorientating and distressing for the viewer as the incident itself is to Kyon.
Sorry for the double post...
Well with the latest episode Sushi-Y's hypothesis of Yuu-utsu taking 6 eps is more or less confirmed. Then again since Kyo-ani has demonstrated the willingness to just jump forward and back almost willy-nilly along the timeline I guess it throws all trying to predict when each story in the episode lineup goes out the window :heh: Well here's my take on what stories will appear based on op/ed/website etc conjecture...
01 朝比奈ミクルの冒険
02 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅰ
03 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱 II
04 涼宮ハルヒの退屈
05 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱 III
06 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱 IV
07 ミステリックサイン (based on op "Emiri", placed here to mess up timeline like 退屈 did)
08 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱 V
09 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱 VI (based on "ep7" and op "また図書館に")
10 笹の葉ラプソディ
11 エンドレスエイト (based on website "15498") or 射手座の日 (no basis)
12 涼宮ハルヒの消失 I
13 涼宮ハルヒの消失 II
14 涼宮ハルヒの消失 III
As such there doesn't seem to be enough episodes to put in all the stories that do have some sort of op/ed/website basis for them within 14 episodes without limiting Shoushitsu to 3 episodes.
Sorry for the double post...
Well with the latest episode Sushi-Y's hypothesis of Yuu-utsu taking 6 eps is more or less confirmed. Then again since Kyo-ani has demonstrated the willingness to just jump forward and back almost willy-nilly along the timeline I guess it throws all trying to predict when each story in the episode lineup goes out the window :heh: Well here's my take on what stories will appear based on op/ed/website etc conjecture...
I didn't really say Yuutsu would take 6 episodes (although if they want to do the whole volume until the very end, which, by the sound of Koizumi and Kyon's conversation during the baseball match, they will, then 6 would probably be fitting), I thought Yuutsu would probably take 4 or 5 episodes to cover. And (this is just my personal opinion) since Shoushitsu contained just as much content, it too should also take 4 or 5 episodes to cover.
Then again, with this week's episode (with Haruhi's "episode 3" thing in the preview there) it's practically confirmed that Taikutsu (the baseball competition) is indeed the "7th" episode, which means that Yuutsu will more than likely run up to Ⅵ (憂鬱Ⅰ - Ⅵ), since nothing else ocurred between Yuutsu and Taikutsu.
Unlike other non-critical, comedic side-stories (like this weeks baseball tournament) 笹の葉ラプソディ is too important of a story to be "shuffled in" between episodes of another serious story (憂鬱): the viewers will probably be left confused with two simultaneous ongoing events. So I agree with your placement by putting it after all the Yuutsu episodes.
If that's the case, then really... we're not left with much room in the end here. 1 short-story + 3 Shoushitsu episodes... If I really had to pick, I would pick "Endless Eight" over "The Day of Sagittarius". But knowing Kyoani, they're probably capable of dishing out some mind-blowing SF space combat actions if they were to pick "The Day of Sagittarius", so I kinda want to see that too. Either way, I'm sure the one that gets chosen (if at all) will be handled nicely.
As for the 3 Shoushitsu episodes... Ideally I'd preferred 4, but at this point I'm not picky anymore, I'll just shut up and act like the Kyoani believer that I am.
Unless Kyo-ani completely throws us a "Yuki-enhanced curve ball"... Is it possible for them to not do 消失, run with 憂鬱 as the main arc and sprinkle in the filler stories? In terms of no. of stories there's enough to conceivably do that, not to say that it will work of course for then there's no 'nice conclusion' when things are rearranged chronologically...
01 朝比奈ミクルの冒険
02 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅰ
03 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱 II
04 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱 III
05 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱 IV
06 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱 V
07 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱 VI
08 孤島症候群
09 ミステリックサイン
10 笹の葉ラプソディ
11 エンドレスエイト
12 射手座の日
13 涼宮ハルヒの溜息 I
14 涼宮ハルヒの溜息 II
(not arranged in any order)
About "The Day of Sagittarius", the sci-fi battles I keep on picturing something like whats described in the latter chapters of Ender's Game when Ender and his jeesh each control a group of battleships. :heh:
Unless Kyo-ani completely throws us a "Yuki-enhanced curve ball"... Is it possible for them to not do 消失, run with 憂鬱 as the main arc and sprinkle in the filler stories? In terms of no. of stories there's enough to conceivably do that, not to say that it will work of course for then there's no 'nice conclusion' when things are rearranged chronologically...
That's actually a possible scenario, and one that I hope won't happen. Out of all the novels out so far, 憂鬱 (vol.1), 消失 (vol.4), and 陰謀 (vol.7) are the only stories "serious" enough to be developed as a main plot in the anime. Vol.7 is almost immediately out of the question since it's far too seperated from vol.1 and far too long. Still, if they choose to only focus on vol.1 and cut out vol.4 entirely, then the anime will effectively lose half of its punch: why have only one good story when you can fit two in?
For first-time watchers, this might not matter as much, since they wouldn't really know what they're missing out on anyway; but the absence of 消失 will definately bring disappointment for the novel-readers. Most of the fans out there also generally believe that the anime will use 憂鬱 as the main plot, achieve a "first-half" climax by using its ending, and then finish up with 消失 (a hint would be the Christmas hot-pot shot in the ED) (although you could argue that the actual hot-pot scene didn't happen until Snow Mountain Syndrome) The producers down at Kyoani are also fans of the novel themselves (a reason why they did it), so I hope they know that 消失 is what the fans want and not skip out on it.
Shirobane
2006-04-24, 20:58
Episode 4 basically cemented the fact that Haruhi likes Kyon to whatever degree. Beyond that, we get a small glimpse of Haruhi's power.
So let's feed the speculation machine for a moment, what if say hypothetically, Kyon is "killed" in a future episode, what do you think would transpire from such an act?
Onizuka-GTO
2006-04-24, 21:04
kyon dies?! Ohnoes¬! the world will end! dooooooom! >.<
panzerfan
2006-04-24, 21:32
Hard to say really. Kyon's sister might fill his shoes and narriate in his lieu.
Haruhi can simply wish it be otherwise and she can 'make it so'. It might create chaos all across in the process though.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-04-24, 21:43
Episode 4 basically cemented the fact that Haruhi likes Kyon to whatever degree. Beyond that, we get a small glimpse of Haruhi's power.
So let's feed the speculation machine for a moment, what if say hypothetically, Kyon is "killed" in a future episode, what do you think would transpire from such an act?
The novels already covered that, I heard.
One character believe the end-result will be good. So an attempt was made on Kyon's life...
panzerfan
2006-04-24, 21:49
but that attempt was not successful so crisis was averted...
Onizuka-GTO
2006-04-24, 21:50
OMG! Kyon Sisters?! The heartless- I would never of believed....
:upset:
Edit: oh. it ok now. whew.
:D
Shirobane
2006-04-24, 22:03
@Vallen Chaos Valiant
Oh I know at least that much that there will be an attempt on Kyon's life, I was simply suggesting if for some reason Kyon actually "died" from that, at least in Haruhi's mind.
@panzerfan
and that's assuming that she realises and can control her power though :p
but in acordance with the spoiler, she could just choose a new key too no? :D
I know the novels cover a bit on what happens when Haruhi isn't happy,
Basically what Onizuka described already...
but what would happen when she's distressed?
The novels already covered that, I heard.
One character believe the end-result will be good. So an attempt was made on Kyon's life...
Not really,
The character in question (and the faction she represented) didn't know for certain that killing Kyon would end in a 'good' result. She/They merely believed that any result, good or bad, any reaction from Haruhi, world ending or not, was better than the current 'stalemate'.
@Vallen Chaos Valiant
Oh I know at least that much that there will be an attempt on Kyon's life, I was simply suggesting if for some reason Kyon actually "died" from that, at least in Haruhi's mind.
@panzerfan
and that's assuming that she realises and can control her power though :p
but in acordance with the spoiler, she could just choose a new key too no? :D
I know the novels cover a bit on what happens when Haruhi isn't happy,
Basically what Onizuka described already...
but what would happen when she's distressed?
Well at the end of the novel the only thing that kept Haruhi from remaking a new world was the fact that Kyon wanted to return to 'this' world. So if Kyon dies, possibly the only thing that ties Haruhi to wanting to be in 'this' world is gone. Plus Haruhi would (subconsciously) have lost her faith in 'this' world where Kyon has died. Thus I think it is extremely likely she would remake a new world (possibly one in which Kyon is alive? :D) if Kyon died.
but what would happen when she's distressed?
Her face turns blue, looks scared and worried while accompanying the unconscious Kyon onto the ambul... oh wait this is spoiler *raises spoiler shield around this paragraph*. ^^;
Well, the anime will probably never get that far, so this should be ok. ^^;
Really, if the Kyoani isn't going to cover 消失 (vol.4) in the anime, then I demand a season 2 where they do it + 陰謀 (vol.7).
But anyway, if Haruhi really "lost faith" in the world, then the outcome will probably be like what melange explained above.
The world will be replaced (possibly through a lockdown dimension), and a new world will be created from scratch to Haruhi's specification (desire).
Onizuka-GTO
2006-04-24, 23:54
oh noes!! the worlds ending...again!!!
Kyon...Haruhi.... NooOOooooooooOOO! >.<
*throws some more ambigous phrase to entice more people to click the spoilers*
:D :D
Shirobane
2006-04-25, 00:20
oh noes!! the worlds ending...again!!!
Kyon...Haruhi.... NooOOooooooooOOO! >.<
*throws some more ambigous phrase to entice more people to click the spoilers*
:D :D
I've found "NFSW" to be a good attractor to spoiler clicking :p
Onizuka-GTO
2006-04-25, 00:22
wat the hell does "NFSW" mean?
*clicks the spoiler*
Wtf?! dammit That does work!
sugoi. :twitch:
NSFW = Not Suitable For Work.
And, I'm not entirely sure convincing people to read the spoilers is entirely the best of ideas... but YMMV
Onizuka-GTO
2006-04-25, 06:28
who said i wanted them to read the spoiler because it's the best? :D
I just want them all to be corrupted! muwahahaha! read the spoilers! yaaar!
:p
Jellyfish Marine
2006-04-25, 07:38
Her face turns blue, looks scared and worried while accompanying the unconscious Kyon onto the ambul... oh wait this is spoiler *raises spoiler shield around this paragraph*. ^^;
Well, the anime will probably never get that far, so this should be ok. ^^;
/me dying gasp "Merciful being, more...more spoiler..please...TT____TT"
iamandragon
2006-04-25, 07:52
Dunno if anyone have noticed this yet...but you know how in the end of every episode there's a preview and Suzumiya would mention a chapter then Kyon correct her? The chapter mentioned by Suzumiya is actually the volume of the novel where the next episode originate from. (e.g. ep4's baseball scene happens in vol7 of the novel)
Dunno if anyone have noticed this yet...but you know how in the end of every episode there's a preview and Suzumiya would mention a chapter then Kyon correct her? The chapter mentioned by Suzumiya is actually the volume of the novel where the next episode originate from. (e.g. ep4's baseball scene happens in vol7 of the novel)
Your intuition is right though it has already been mentioned before :heh: However, the episode number Haruhi mentions is not the volume the story originates from but indicates more or less the chronological order of the episodes. Episode 4's baseball scene (episode 7 according to Haruhi) actually comes from Vol. 3, but it comes right after the events of Vol. 1 (which is thus deduced to take up six episodes) in the timeline.
iamandragon
2006-04-25, 10:01
Ugg...I think I got the orders of the novels all wrong...can someone tell me the order of the volumes?
Ugg...I think I got the orders of the novels all wrong...can someone tell me the order of the volumes?
( ・ω・)つ http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=541848#post541848
I have a little guess here, i was halfway towards sleeping when i thought of this, if I don't post this I probably won't be able to sleep tonight lol :
Most, if not all of us know that ep 1 is a hint to what all the characters are. like mikuru, yuki and itsuki are indeed what they were acting as.
But haruhi and kyon were not presented much visually. Nothing was said about them, except that we know kyon was the 'super narrator' and haruhi is the 'super director'.
I think the super narrator and super director terms are really hints for the both of them. Well, I've been reading around here and i learnt about the theory that haruhi and kyon existed for each other and such.
So haruhi as the super director refers to her omnipotent powers to create and cause things to go as she likes. She literally directs the world around her.
Kyon as the super narrator would mean that he's the person that makes haruhi's wishes possible. He narrates haruhi's story, without him the story cant carry on.
Well if the above was already mentioned by someone, i guess my info collection skills must have failed and you may deem this piece of data irrelevant lol
Kyon's role as narrator doesn't seem to exactly match up within the show. I doubt Haruhi is paying that much attention to his internal monologue (after all, we're pretty sure she isn't an Esper). He doesn't appear to make Haruhi's wishes possible so much as...
being the key
It's widely accepted (at least on this forum) that Itsuki was playing Kyon in that first episode. That point is best illustrated (IMO) when Itsuki starts talking to Yuki in his room about being a key.
"I see. In any case, he... No. In these scene, it would be me."
Also, Haruhi was the director, but Kyon was both Narrator and Cameraman.
Although, I don't think we should take Ep0 literally. Yuki is obviously a magican (or close enough, from her incantation in ep7), and an alien to boot. Mikuru is from the future... and oddly enough... a bit of a waitress from her tea serving scenes in ep7 (but a miserable failure as a combat waitress T_T). But I don't think Itsuki(taking Kyon's place) is meant to choose between the two girls for the sake of the universe.
panzerfan
2006-04-26, 17:38
That remains to be seen. After all this intrepretation does remove good Itsuki out of the picture. He represents a significant faction involved here.
An extension to this model is how Haruhi's influence could be felt even if she is not physically 'there' or.. in this case, not aware of her power.
That remains to be seen. After all this intrepretation does remove good Itsuki out of the picture. He represents a significant faction involved here.
An extension to this model is how Haruhi's influence could be felt even if she is not physically 'there' or.. in this case, not aware of her power.
I'll agree 100% panzerfan, but as of this time (without spoilers, since this is a speculation thread) we don't know anything about Itsuki. We can only assume he's an Esper, since that's the one thing we're missing from the SOS-Dan. An Esper who has to use a cell phone... Lousy espers!
Although, I really do like your extension... It's a good point I hadn't considered.
I went to various comment sites and gathered as much information as I could about the anime and it's future developments, and here are the results:
------------------------ (reliable predictions)
"Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu" (novel volume 1) will most likely form the main plot of the anime. There will be 6 episodes devoted to it.
- 涼宮ハルヒの憂鬱Ⅰ- Ⅵ (6)
One episode was devoted to SOS-dan's culture fair movie, "Asahina Mikuru no Bouken" (from volume 6).
- 朝比奈ミクルの冒険 Episode 00 (1)
There's one episode devoted to the baseball competition, "Suzumiya Haruhi no Taikutsu" (from volume 3).
- 涼宮ハルヒの退屈 (1)
"Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody" (vol.3) and "Mysterious Sign" (vol.3) will be featured (the OP also lends proof to this).
- 笹の葉ラプソディ (1)
- ミステリックサイン (1)
According to the recent issue of "The Sneaker" (the magazine that the novel serializes on), there will be one original anime episode, written by the novel's author, Tanigawa Nagaru.
- オリジナルエピソード (1)
------------------------ (less certain predictions below)
One episode of "Suzumiya Haruhi no Tameiki" as the follow-up to "Asahina Mikuru no Bouken Episode 00".
- 涼宮ハルヒの溜息 (1)
One episode featuring "Endless Eight" (based the reference to it in the official site's activity page).
-エンドレスエイト (1)
Koizumi's line near the end of episode 4 ("It would appear that we can't let Suzumiya-san idle around. That's one more thing for us to consider about as a future task") would suggest that this "future task" may come into play as an episode later on. Most likely "Lone Island Syndrome"?
-孤島症候群 (1)
------------------------
"Suzumiya Haruhi no Shoushitsu" (Suzumiya Haruhi's Evanescene (Disappearance), vol.4) isn't out of the question yet (the Christmas cut in the ED makes it a possibility), but looking at the current line-up, it would appear to be a tight squeeze if it were to be featured. Right now, the general opinion is swaying from a "Shoushitsu finale" to a "Yuutsu finale + misc side-stories".
Personal opinion? I think it would be a pity if "Shoushitsu" doesn't get featured, since I liked it a lot more than "Yuutsu". It was starting from "Shoushitsu" did the story get really interesting with all the time jumps, alternate worlds, and multiple identities weaved into one complex yet easy to understand story. "Yuutsu" stands perfectly well on it's own, but I think it was "Shoushitsu" that really brought out the potentials hidden within the setting of this series.
Very good work Sushi-Y! *applauds in awe*
I guess it then boils down to it being either Tameiki/Endless Eight/Lone Island Syndrome or Shoushitsu. Shoushitsu certainly is the more compelling and emotional story than Yuuutsu and I too would like to see it done, though I can see that Yuuutsu's ending having that 'more epic' feel is kinda wasted stuck in the middle of a series.
If they don't do Shoushitsu now, I hope they will do another season with Shoushitsu as the main story arc. Well with the overwhelming popularity of Haruhi now the chances of a 2nd season seems high. The only thing I'm concerned about is if they do "1st season = Yuuutsu+side stories", a lot of the side stories now existent will have been used up for the 1st season, leaving a Shoushitsu-centric season bereft of already existing side stories, which may lead to the fear of mediocre 'anime-only' fillers ala Kenshin etc. But I guess if they are already working with bringing Tanigawa Nagaru on to write the story now then I'm worrying for nothing :heh:
Additionally... does this then imply that Inbou might become the focus for a 3rd season? :D
panzerfan
2006-04-27, 00:18
We could windup with situation similar to Triangle Hearts where numerous drama CD fills the void or we will have subsequent OVA releases depending on whether or not another season will happen.
Now that we have grasped more than half of the season, I suppose it's a good time to do a review!
First of all, let's arrange the episodes by the story timeline (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=541848&postcount=80):
Haruhi's Episode Count (by story timeline) / Title / Kyon's Episode Count (by airtime)
Episode 0 - Asahina Mikuru no Bouken Episode 00 - Episode 1
Episode 1 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅰ - Episode 2
Episode 2 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅱ - Episode 3
Episode 3 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅲ - Episode 5
Episode 4 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅳ - ?
Episode 5 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅴ - ?
Episode 6 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅵ - ?
Episode 7 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Taikutsu - Episode 4
Episode 8 - ? - ?
Episode 9 - Lone Island Syndrome (Part 1) - Episode 6
Episode 10 - Lone Island Syndrome (Part 2) - Episode 7
Episode 11 - ? - ?
Episode 12 - ? - ?
Episode 13 - ? - ?
Episode 14 - ? - ?
===================
First of all, there's no proof that the Lone Island episodes will be aired in succession, but considering the type of story it is, it's probably safe to assume that they will be aired together.
Second, with the flow of this week's episode (Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅲ), it's pretty much 100% certain that they're going for 6 episodes on this volume (Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅲ ended on page 174, just about halfway through the volume).
Here comes the interesting part, let's leave "Episode 10 - 14" aside for now and focus on "Episode 8". "Episode 8", timeline wise, must occur between the baseball competition ("Episode 7") and the upcoming Lone Island trip ("Episode 9"). The only events that occured between those two stories in the novel were "Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody" and "Mysterious Sign".
Dilemma. Which one? If you ask anyone who read the novel, it's obvious that "Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody" would be the correct choice. But what's with that Kimidori-san cameo in the OP then?
Could it be that Kimidori-san is actually going to be featured in the "original episode", which was mentioned in The Sneaker, instead?
If the "original episode" takes up one more slot, what will the remaining 3 episodes be?
Here's another guess from me, without worry about the airing order:
-----------------------------
Episode 0 - Asahina Mikuru no Bouken Episode 00
Episode 1 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅰ
Episode 2 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅱ
Episode 3 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅲ
Episode 4 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅳ
Episode 5 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅴ
Episode 6 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅵ
Episode 7 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Taikutsu
Episode 8 - Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody
Episode 9 - Lone Island Syndrome (Part 1)
Episode 10 - Lone Island Syndrome (Part 2)
Episode 11 - Endless Eight
Episode 12 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Tameiki
Episode 13 - Live a Live
Episode 14 - Original Episode
"Endless Eight" - no reason, I just want it to be in.
"Suzumiya Haruhi no Tameiki" - as a follow up to Episode 0
"Live a Live" - If we're not going to have Shoushitsu, then by this point in the timeline, the only choices are 2 Tameiki episodes, or "Tameiki" + "Live a Live" ("The Day of Sagittarius" is kind of meaningless if Shoushitsu isn't going to be in). Seeing as how there are TWO insert songs (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=537054&postcount=69), I suspect one of them will be used in "Live a Live", where Haruhi will be singing onstage with a band.
"Original Episode" - If there's going to be a DVD-only episode, this would probably be it. Anyway, nothing is known about this episode other than its existence.
Agreed with most of the things you raised, Sushi-Y. Pity there's no Shoushitsu T_T
I like "Live a Live", as its one of the few 'later' stories that goes back to Haruhi-development while most of the rest focus on Yuki-development. It'll be a very nice addition. Though I wonder about "Tameiki" since "Lone Island Syndrome" is already by itself taking up 2 episodes won't "Tameiki" at least have to do the same based on its length? There are quite a lot of things that happen in it. Well anyway either way would be great because those both "Tameiki" and "Live a Live" have Tsuruya-san action :D
On Kimidori-san and the original episode, one thing that bugs me is how then will it relate to the chronology? Will this new episode happen before Kimidori-san comes to the SOS in "Mysterious Sign" which would then contradict them not knowing Kimidori-san in "Mysterious Sign" or will it happen after which would mean they know Kimidori-san but would leave the non-novel viewer go 'huh?' or will "Mysterious Sign" be completely replaced by the original episode?
the rest focus on Yuki-development.
それが何か？:p
Though I wonder about "Tameiki" since "Lone Island Syndrome" is already by itself taking up 2 episodes won't "Tameiki" at least have to do the same based on its length? There are quite a lot of things that happen in it. Well anyway either way would be great because those both "Tameiki" and "Live a Live" have Tsuruya-san action :D
If you consider Episode 00 as one of Tameiki's episodes, it should work. You'd have one as the "finished product" episode, and one as "the-makings-of" episode. If they just focus on the "explanation" for the various events from the finished movie (ex. Mikuru Beam, talking Shamisen, cherry blossoms blooming in Fall, the reason for the bunnygirl part-time job/commercials, etc.), one episode should be enough. Besides, can you find a good episode cut off point anywhere in Tameiki?
On Kimidori-san and the original episode, one thing that bugs me is how then will it relate to the chronology? Will this new episode happen before Kimidori-san comes to the SOS in "Mysterious Sign" which would then contradict them not knowing Kimidori-san in "Mysterious Sign" or will it happen after which would mean they know Kimidori-san but would leave the non-novel viewer go 'huh?' or will "Mysterious Sign" be completely replaced by the original episode?
We'll never know. Maybe for "Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody", Haruhi will go "Next week! Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu, Episode －1!" or something. :heh:
Well... here's another possibility... Kimidori-san does make a return in volume 8 (涼宮ハルヒの憤慨), during the 「編集長★一直線！」 story (SOS-dan members writing their own novels to publish as a product for the literature club (Yuki's original club)). I know it sounds far-fetched, but the OP did feature something from this volume as well:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/136004815_2a5e8f726d.jpg
Maybe we should just give up trying to guess this thing. :heh:
??????:p 何も... :heh: 有希ちゃんは最高だから... :love: ただ他の団員も注目してほしいだけ...
If you consider Episode 00 as one of Tameiki's episodes, it should work. You'd have one as the "finished product" episode, and one as "the-makings-of" episode. If they just focus on the "explanation" for the various events from the finished movie (ex. Mikuru Beam, talking Shamisen, cherry blossoms blooming in Fall, the reason for the bunnygirl part-time job/commercials, etc.), one episode should be enough. Besides, can you find a good episode cut off point anywhere in Tameiki?
We'll never know. Maybe for "Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody", Haruhi will go "Next week! Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu, Episode ?1!" or something. :heh:You have a point with Tameiki... I'm thinking Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody should be 'Episode 0', the SOS-dan movie not withstanding, since by right its still 'later' in the timeline :heh:
Eh?! Novel 8 image in OP... *head spins* :eyespin:
Onizuka-GTO
2006-05-01, 00:43
Eh?! Novel 8 image in OP... *head spins* :eyespin:
what?! Time-travelling!
:D
Kinny Riddle
2006-05-08, 07:55
With next episode designated as "Episode 8 - Mysterious Signs", I think it is now possible to fill in the blanks according to Haruhi's "true" order.
1. Melancholy I (episode 2)
2. Melancholy II (episode 3)
3. Melancholy III (episode 5)
4. Melancholy IV
5. Melancholy V
6. Melancholy VI (likely final episode of this series?)
7. Boredom (episode 4)
8. Mysterious Signs (episode 7)
9. Lone Island Syndrome I (episode 6)
10. Lone Island Syndrome II
11. Sighs I (Taimeki, concerns making of the SOS movie)
12. Sighs II
13. Sighs III
14. Asahina Mikuru-chan's Adventure Episode 00 (episode 1)
According to the chronological timeline, the first story to take place right after "Melancholy" is "Boredom" (the baseball game). Since "Boredom" is designated as "episode 7" by Haruhi, it's safe to assume "Melancholy" would span 6 episodes total.
Following "Boredom" is "Mysterious Signs", which in turn is followed by two episodes of "Lone Island Syndrome". Since chronologically, "Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody" takes place between "Boredom" and "Mysterious Signs", I have a feeling "Bamboo" is going to be saved for the second series, most likely titled after volume 4 "The Vanishing of Suzumiya Haruhi", since "Bamboo" ties in with the plot of volume 4.
That leaves us with three more episodes. I'd like to speculate that they'll spend at least one to two episodes on the production of the "Mikuru-chan's Adventure" movie (basically the whole of volume 2).
Though the OP does have pictures taken from volume 8 illustrations, I think Kyo-Ani's going to save the later volumes for the next series. This first series would cover volumes 1-3 at best.
AvatarST
2006-05-10, 14:16
Anyone else believe that this story is actually nothing but a manga, a novel, or a dream written/seen by Kyon? I'll expand on why I think so later on, as I'm busy studying right now - but first I want to know if anyone else thinks this could be possible or it's too crazy.
With next episode designated as "Episode 8 - Mysterious Signs", I think it is now possible to fill in the blanks according to Haruhi's "true" order.
3 Tameiki episodes? I hope not. So far, all the surprises from the episode shuffles have been acceptable ones (because they're fresh and interesting), but if they plan to do 3 episodes on Tameiki, then someone ought to be bonked on the head.
But you raised a good point, it looks like they're actually trying to cover everything. We've been guessing what they would and would not do, but so far, the trend does look like they are planning to do everything between volume 1 and 3. Yuutsu, (most likely) Tameiki, Taikutsu, Lone Island, Sign...
But there are still some strong signs showing that they might do other stories as well, like Live a Live (2 insertion songs planned for the anime). And don't forget the original episode either (which, for all we know, could be a replacement for any of the episodes listed above).
Hell, there are already rumors flying all over place like how there won't be a part 2 to Lone Island at all (lol) and how Tameiki won't show up at all. So really, I have already given up trying to guess where they're going now. :heh:
Hell, there are already rumors flying all over place like how there won't be a part 2 to Lone Island at all (lol) and how Tameiki won't show up at all. So really, I have already given up trying to guess where they're going now. :heh:The part that really threw me was going from Lone Island I to Mysterious Sign. And there I was thinking "they wouldn't split up a story like that would they?" :heh:
I have a theory here about whether Kyon really has supernatural powers:
We all know that when Haruhi wishes for something to happen, it most likely will happen. But why does it not happen all the time? I think Kyon is responsible for it, he can affect Haruhi's desires. But the way he make things happen is very different from Haruhi.
My theory is that things that Kyon don't expect to happen, will happen.
Just think about it, why do things always go wrong or something unexpected always happen to Kyon? Also when things that Haruhi wishes come true, its also something that Kyon didn't expect to happen. But things that Kyon don't expect to happen can also be good things.
Like Kyon didn't expect they would win the baseball match, but they did, for this event Haruhi, did want to win.
Kyon didn't expect he would be paired up with Mikuru for the mystery search but it happened. Haruhi appears to us that she wants to be in the same group as Kyon, but Kyon probably thinks that he would have 'bad luck' as always and be paired up as her, he sort of expected this to happen, so this didn't happen.
I'm lazy right now to give more examples, but there are lots of events that corresponds to my theory. There are lots of stuff that Kyon didn't expect to happen, but they did.
I also came up with this theory because I've read from someone on another forum that everytime Kyon says 'masaka' or 'this can't be', something is bound to happen in that way.
Like when he saw the mansion owner stabbed, he said 'masaka', he didn't expect a murder to really happen.
Like when his bike was confiscated, he said 'yume daro?', 'is this a dream?', he didn't expect this to happen.
And this also makes me think that maybe Haruhi may not be the one with god powers but Kyon instead. Because everything in the show didn't happen as Kyon wanted and its 100% accurate that stuff happens. Things do happen for Haruhi but not all, only those that Kyon didn't expect.
everytime Kyon says 'masaka' or 'this can't be', something is bound to happen in that way.
In Japan, they call that "Kyon Quality". :heh:
Liquidzero
2006-05-11, 01:32
I have a theory here about whether Kyon really has supernatural powers:
We all know that when Haruhi wishes for something to happen, it most likely will happen. But why does it not happen all the time? I think Kyon is responsible for it, he can affect Haruhi's desires. But the way he make things happen is very different from Haruhi.
My theory is that things that Kyon don't expect to happen, will happen.
Just think about it, why do things always go wrong or something unexpected always happen to Kyon? Also when things that Haruhi wishes come true, its also something that Kyon didn't expect to happen. But things that Kyon don't expect to happen can also be good things.
Like Kyon didn't expect they would win the baseball match, but they did, for this event Haruhi, did want to win.
Kyon didn't expect he would be paired up with Mikuru for the mystery search but it happened. Haruhi appears to us that she wants to be in the same group as Kyon, but Kyon probably thinks that he would have 'bad luck' as always and be paired up as her, he sort of expected this to happen, so this didn't happen.
I'm lazy right now to give more examples, but there are lots of events that corresponds to my theory. There are lots of stuff that Kyon didn't expect to happen, but they did.
I also came up with this theory because I've read from someone on another forum that everytime Kyon says 'masaka' or 'this can't be', something is bound to happen in that way.
Like when he saw the mansion owner stabbed, he said 'masaka', he didn't expect a murder to really happen.
Like when his bike was confiscated, he said 'yume daro?', 'is this a dream?', he didn't expect this to happen.
And this also makes me think that maybe Haruhi may not be the one with god powers but Kyon instead. Because everything in the show didn't happen as Kyon wanted and its 100% accurate that stuff happens. Things do happen for Haruhi but not all, only those that Kyon didn't expect.
i think you've stumbled upon a very interesting theory, i'm not discounting it however,
why do all three groups point to haruhi rather than kyon as being their focus of attention? while he did have that "don't tell me it's haruhi" statement during his disucussion with itsuki asahina and nagato, while it was an overt thought he did figure it was her in the back of his mind.
i forget who posted it but there was the theory that it's not haruhi's wishes being granted it's actually kyon's. that he wanted all the things with aliens, timetravelers, and espers and crazy situations to happen, he just didn't want to be the focus, he wanted to be the sidekick (which is how the situation is right now.)
in terms of kyon's relationship with haruhi, i think it's going how she desires it. even though it's pretty obvious she likes kyon, to have him fall into her lap would probably be "boring" to her. so i think this underlying desire for an "exciting" relationship over-rules her immediate feelings for kyon. so her powers make him not interested in her as well as during situations where she wants to be with him she isn't. i'm sure she likes her antagonist relationship with him, i guess it's more like she's in it for the chase.
i've no idea if that made any sense, i hope it did, i feel like i'm rambling
PastPrime
2006-06-08, 09:20
From what I have read, in the later novels outside forces are starting to work against SOS-Dan. I wonder if their ultimate objective might be to force the members into a situation where they have to use Haruhi's powers. So they have to tell her at least part of the truth and start teaching her how to control her powers.
SasuraiHell
2006-06-08, 13:58
i think you've stumbled upon a very interesting theory, i'm not discounting it however,
why do all three groups point to haruhi rather than kyon as being their focus of attention? while he did have that "don't tell me it's haruhi" statement during his disucussion with itsuki asahina and nagato, while it was an overt thought he did figure it was her in the back of his mind.
i forget who posted it but there was the theory that it's not haruhi's wishes being granted it's actually kyon's. that he wanted all the things with aliens, timetravelers, and espers and crazy situations to happen, he just didn't want to be the focus, he wanted to be the sidekick (which is how the situation is right now.)
in terms of kyon's relationship with haruhi, i think it's going how she desires it. even though it's pretty obvious she likes kyon, to have him fall into her lap would probably be "boring" to her. so i think this underlying desire for an "exciting" relationship over-rules her immediate feelings for kyon. so her powers make him not interested in her as well as during situations where she wants to be with him she isn't. i'm sure she likes her antagonist relationship with him, i guess it's more like she's in it for the chase.
i've no idea if that made any sense, i hope it did, i feel like i'm rambling
you both share my interest in this matter, i though i was the only one.
the reason i think that the whole chat about the 'dont tell haruhi' thing was to make Kyon think that he's going to be busy with not telling her and not worrying or even coming to think maybe he has the god powers or any, (because thus far he hasnt self reflected about anything remotely wierd about him)., from that i can see that haruhi is putting on some major acting, or they are 'adam and eve' XD.,
this is all very possible stuff, like things are i cant wait to see whats gonna happen with this
velocity7
2006-06-08, 15:19
Anyone ever gave the thought that since Kyon is capable of controlling Haruhi, he is more dangerous than her?
Thus, if any of the following happens:
1. Kyon dies/disappears/etc. = bad
2. Kyon tells Haruhi off = bad
3. Kyon decides to "exercise" his control = bad
Alright time to update the episode orders:
Chronological/Airtime
Episode 01/02 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅰ
Episode 02/03 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅱ
Episode 03/05 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅲ
Episode 04/10 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅳ
Episode 05/?? - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅴ
Episode 06/14 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅵ
Episode 07/04 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Taikutsu
Episode 08/07 - Mysterique Sign
Episode 09/06 - Lone Island Syndrome (Part 1)
Episode 10/08 - Lone Island Syndrome (Part 2)
Episode 11/?? - ?
Episode 12/?? - ?
Episode 13/11 - Day of Sagittarius
Episode 14/09 - Someday In The Rain
Episode ??/01 - Asahina Mikuru no Bouken Episode 00
Anyone has an updated speculation on the unknown episodes?
EDIT: Rearrangement of Asahina Mikuru no Bouken Episode 00
Pakxenon
2006-06-08, 20:13
Endless Eight and Asahina Mikuru no Bouken.
1. Sighs would be impossible to fit into 2/1 episodes.
2. LIVE A LIVE would logically follow Sighs.
LIVE A LIVE would logically follow Sighs.
Actually, Live a Live can fit into the ? slots just fine.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=541848&postcount=80
But yes, I agree Tameiki's not going to be in. If you consider the fact that Kyoani has been following the novel almost to a tee on all episodes, then it's quite obvious that they're not going half-ass an entire volume with only 2 episodes (it wasn't that great of a volume anyway).
With that said, there are only 3 stories that can fit into the ? slots:
- Asahina Mikuru no Bouken
- Endless Eight
- Live a Live
(also refer to MOON PHASE's chart: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/moonphase/20040105)
cyan-san (the MOON PHASE guy) thinks the series might actually be 14+1 episodes, with Asahina Mikuru no Bouken being "Episode 0" and seperate from the episode count (as reflected in the chart). In that case, it's possible that all three stories above can be fitted in. However, one of them will be a DVD-only release.
If that's true, then my guess is that they'll do Endless Eight for the DVD-only episode, considering the fan-service factor.
Hmmm what about Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody? I thought someone mentioned that a bamboo plant was shown in Someday In The Rain so it may be possible Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody may be shown. This speculation was there because he said 4 laptops was shown and Day of Sagittarius is airing.
Pakxenon
2006-06-10, 00:12
I read (not very clearly) the synopsis for LIVE A LIVE. It seems to logically follow Tameiki, since they're still in the cultral festival and whatnot (I think).
And Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody is impossible, of course. That's for next season (episode 00 anybody? o_O), and they can't fit 0.5 episodes (no matter how hard you try).
If there's a DVD only release then... hurray!!
I read (not very clearly) the synopsis for LIVE A LIVE. It seems to logically follow Tameiki, since they're still in the cultral festival and whatnot (I think).
(did you bother to click on the time-line link in my last post?)
Yes, both the filming (Tameiki) and the airing of the movie at the culture festival (Live a Live) took place in November. Where's the problem?
Hmmm what about Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody? I thought someone mentioned that a bamboo plant was shown in Someday In The Rain so it may be possible Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody may be shown. This speculation was there because he said 4 laptops was shown and Day of Sagittarius is airing.
Bamboo Leaf may seem like an obvious choice because it was such an important story in the novel. But if you think about it, you'll realize that it's completely unnecessary if they're not doing Shoushitsu.
Regardless of whether or not they actually plan to do a season 2 featuring Shoushitsu, it makes sense if they wanted to finish the season off cleanly with one main plot (Yuutsu) + various unimportant side stories. Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, on the other hand, is an untied knot that doesn't get cleaned up until Shoushitsu.
panzerfan
2006-06-10, 01:20
Bamboo leaf is so critical that I would think it's better to do it in season 2 just because all of a sudden the event 3 years ago becomes so clear to the audience right after.
I personally think doing Endless Eight is a far better idea if you want to introduce something to confuse the audience. Mikuru's story and LIVE ALIVE... a bit better to leave them to season 2.
Hmmm I see.
Also the way you guys talk about season 2 makes it sound like its definitely going to happen.
Shamisen seems to be a totally unneeded character lol
Kinny Riddle
2006-06-10, 02:38
Alright time to update the episode orders:
Chronological/Airtime
Episode 00/01 - Asahina Mikuru no Bouken Episode 00
Episode 01/02 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅰ
Episode 02/03 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅱ
Episode 03/05 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅲ
Episode 04/10 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅳ
Episode 05/?? - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅴ
Episode 06/14 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅵ
Episode 07/04 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Taikutsu
Episode 08/07 - Mysterique Sign
Episode 09/06 - Lone Island Syndrome (Part 1)
Episode 10/08 - Lone Island Syndrome (Part 2)
Episode 11/?? - ?
Episode 12/?? - ?
Episode 13/11 - Day of Sagittarius
Episode 14/09 - Someday In The Rain
Anyone has an updated speculation on the unknown episodes?
If this timeline is chronological, then Asahina Mikuru no Bouken Episode 00 shouldn't be episode 0. Allow me to emphasize: It's "episode 00" for "Asahina no Bouken", not "episode 0" for "The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi"
So the numbering for the first episode is either episode 11 or 12, with the remaining either from "Endless Eight" or "LIVE ALIVE".
panzerfan
2006-06-10, 02:43
That would be ideal. I can only hope Kyoani would do that.
If this timeline is chronological, then Asahina Mikuru no Bouken Episode 00 shouldn't be episode 0. Allow me to emphasize: It's "episode 00" for "Asahina no Bouken", not "episode 0" for "The Melancholy of Suzumiya Haruhi"
So the numbering for the first episode is either episode 11 or 12, with the remaining either from "Endless Eight" or "LIVE ALIVE".
Ahh my mistake, I do know that its somewhere around episode 12 though.
I used 2 digits for tidiness lol
Actually, Live a Live can fit into the ? slots just fine.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=541848&postcount=80
But yes, I agree Tameiki's not going to be in. If you consider the fact that Kyoani has been following the novel almost to a tee on all episodes, then it's quite obvious that they're not going half-ass an entire volume with only 2 episodes (it wasn't that great of a volume anyway).
With that said, there are only 3 stories that can fit into the ? slots:
- Asahina Mikuru no Bouken
- Endless Eight
- Live a Live
(also refer to MOON PHASE's chart: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/moonphase/20040105)
Live alive has apparently been confirmed through Insert songs by whatever site the translator is using to create his timetable. (http://www12.brinkster.com/stratoct/haruhi.htm) (Link goes to main page because some browers have trouble rendering one or the other.)
Edit: Confirmed as episode 12 as per 2ch.
cyan-san (the MOON PHASE guy) thinks the series might actually be 14+1 episodes, with Asahina Mikuru no Bouken being "Episode 0" and seperate from the episode count (as reflected in the chart). In that case, it's possible that all three stories above can be fitted in. However, one of them will be a DVD-only release.
If that's true, then my guess is that they'll do Endless Eight for the DVD-only episode, considering the fan-service factor.
Adding fuel to the fire, the webnewtype anime land claims 14 is not the final episode. However, webnewtype's listing for haruhi is screwy to begin with so I do not know how much to trust it. Normally they are correct, but this is haruhi where the episode descriptions is quotes from the novel. If this is true, this suggests two possibilities:
1) Everyone who said 14 was wrong and its actually 15 (1 + 7x2) or theoretically more... (sudden dvd 8+ announcement?)
2) Episode 00 is really episode >15, thus making 14 not the final.
Live alive has apparently been confirmed through Insert songs by whatever site the translator is using to create his timetable. (http://www12.brinkster.com/stratoct/haruhi.htm) (Link goes to main page because some browers have trouble rendering one or the other.)
Edit: Confirmed as episode 12 as per 2ch.
Yes, the moment they announced that there was going to be 2 insert songs over a month ago (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=547004&postcount=106), I predicted that Live a Live was going to be in.
Also, notice how episode 12 is going to be "Live a Live", and episode 13 was "The Day of Sagitarrius"? "Asahina Mikuru no Bouken" can no longer fit into the chronological episode slots, so cyan-san was right, it's "episode 0" and not part of the chronological episode count.
Adding fuel to the fire, the webnewtype anime land claims 14 is not the final episode. However, webnewtype's listing for haruhi is screwy to begin with so I do not know how much to trust it. Normally they are correct, but this is haruhi where the episode descriptions is quotes from the novel. If this is true, this suggests two possibilities:
1) Everyone who said 14 was wrong and its actually 15 (1 + 7x2) or theoretically more... (sudden dvd 8+ announcement?)
2) Episode 00 is really episode >15, thus making 14 not the final.
15 episode is possible (14 TV + 1 DVD-only), but that's it.
I'll say this again, it's impossible for Haruhi to go on past episode 14.
1) Many TV stations have already announced their airing schedules past 7/10 (the week after Haruhi episode 14 will air), and the anime that will be replacing Haruhi's timeslot have already been determined.
2) Kyoani has to start working on "Kanon" soon, otherwise they won't make it in time for its Fall airtime.
Alright here's a new theory from me:
It's safer to read if you've already read novel 1, since my theory comes from it. Actually it just came to my mind while I was reading through it the 2nd time.
Haruhi wanted to meet aliens, time travellers and espers, thats why Yuki, Mikuru and Itsuki appeared infront of her. So what is Kyon? Is he the slider? Maybe, since he crossed all sorts of dimensions, closed spaces and such.
But no, I think he has a much simpler role and its also something Haruhi wanted to have. Kyon exists because Haruhi wanted a person who would care for her, listen to her, someone who is always there for her. She wants someone who loves her or a person she would love. That is Kyon.
Its just that simple, Kyon doesn't need to have super powers but he can deeply affect Haruhi. That's his role, the key. The 3 of them probably knows that Haruhi and Kyon needs to love each other to save the world. But if they told Kyon directly to love Haruhi, that won't work. Though Kyon and Haruhi has a bond between themselves, the 3 of them are trying to strengthen that bond.
The incident that happened in Yuuutsu VII directly supports my theory. Also Mikuru and Yuki gave the hints. Mikuru can't allow herself and Kyon to be close to each other for the same reason. Itsuki also kept reminding Kyon about the bond and trust Haruhi and Kyon has. So yea, Kyon exists just to love and be loved by Haruhi.
As for who's the slider, I think the entire SOS dan are sliders. Especially Itsuki though, he mentioned closed spaces are parallel dimensions. Since the entire SOS dan has been through several dimensions and closed spaces, they are all sliders.
outcast_within
2006-06-20, 10:31
The explanation of the aztec sun hasn't come by yet in an episode right?
CrowKenobi
2006-06-20, 13:03
Alright time to update the episode orders:
Chronological/Airtime
Episode 01/02 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅰ
Episode 02/03 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅱ
Episode 03/05 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅲ
Episode 04/10 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅳ
Episode 05/?? - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅴ
Episode 06/14 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅵ
Episode 07/04 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Taikutsu
Episode 08/07 - Mysterique Sign
Episode 09/06 - Lone Island Syndrome (Part 1)
Episode 10/08 - Lone Island Syndrome (Part 2)
Episode 11/?? - ?
Episode 12/?? - ?
Episode 13/11 - Day of Sagittarius
Episode 14/09 - Someday In The Rain
Episode ??/01 - Asahina Mikuru no Bouken Episode 00
Anyone has an updated speculation on the unknown episodes?
EDIT: Rearrangement of Asahina Mikuru no Bouken Episode 00 I was on Anime News Network yesterday and they put "Asahina Mikuru no Bouken Episode 00" in the episode 11 slot. Thus the episode arrangement would look like this:
Chronological Order/Broadcast Order
Episode 01/02 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅰ
Episode 02/03 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅱ
Episode 03/05 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅲ
Episode 04/10 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅳ
Episode 05/13 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅴ
Episode 06/14 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu Ⅵ
Episode 07/04 - Suzumiya Haruhi no Taikutsu
Episode 08/07 - Mysterique Sign
Episode 09/06 - Lone Island Syndrome (Part 1)
Episode 10/08 - Lone Island Syndrome (Part 2)
Episode 11/01 - Asahina Mikuru no Bouken Episode 00
Episode 12/12 - Live A Live
Episode 13/11 - Day of Sagittarius
Episode 14/09 - Someday In The RainSo unless the rumored DVD only ep is going to be placed in the ep 11 slot, I guess that's all there is of The Meloncholy of Haruhi Suzumiya season 1. (Yes, let's hope for a second season! :D)
arcticphoenix16
2006-06-20, 21:06
remember in episode 14/9 there's a shot of bamboo? where does that fit in?
velocity7
2006-06-20, 22:38
That'd be Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, which has not been covered and foreshadows Suzumiya Haruhi no Shoushitsu (The Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi). If they went that far, maybe they might make a second season?
Also, some things I thought about...
1. There was no need for Asahina Mikuru (adult) to come to the past to tell Kyon about Snow White. In fact, during the time he was stuck in closed space with Haruhi (volume 1), Yuki had given him the message "sleeping beauty". That alone would have been enough.
2. Asakura Ryouko is actually wrong in saying that Yuki might decide to kill Kyon because the higher-ups said so. Not because Yuki has some sort of "subtle love" for Kyon, but because at the time of volume 1, she was taking care of Kyon and Mikuru from the future (volume 3, Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody). If Kyon were to be killed then and there, there would certainly be a nasty time paradox, and Ryouko would be blamed for it. Of course, Yuki can't tell Ryouko that; call it a Temporal Prime Directive of sorts? (Star Trek ftw)
Based on that and the fact Yuki could contact her future self when Kyon and Mikuru approached her in Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, Yuki probably predicted that she was going to win against Ryouko. The only thing she didn't know is whether Ryouko would surrender or if she would have her interface disconnected.
CrowKenobi
2006-06-20, 22:50
That'd be Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, which has not been covered and foreshadows Suzumiya Haruhi no Shoushitsu (The Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi). If they went that far, maybe they might make a second season?
Also, some things I thought about...
1. There was no need for Asahina Mikuru (adult) to come to the past to tell Kyon about Snow White. In fact, during the time he was stuck in closed space with Haruhi (volume 1), Yuki had given him the message "sleeping beauty". That alone would have been enough.
2. Asakura Ryouko is actually wrong in saying that Yuki might decide to kill Kyon because the higher-ups said so. Not because Yuki has some sort of "subtle love" for Kyon, but because at the time of volume 1, she was taking care of Kyon and Mikuru from the future (volume 3, Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody). If Kyon were to be killed then and there, there would certainly be a nasty time paradox, and Ryouko would be blamed for it. Of course, Yuki can't tell Ryouko that; call it a Temporal Prime Directive of sorts? (Star Trek ftw) I don't believe that is true. If Kyon only got one "hint" he wouldn't know what part of the fairy tale is being referenced. It is only when he has both "hints" that he realizes what each tale has in common... and that is what he acts upon.
velocity7
2006-06-20, 23:18
The problem is what gives Mikuru the motivation to go back into the past? Is it that she's destined to go back there, or was there something else involved that might have caused Kyon to not see what he had to do?
CrowKenobi
2006-06-20, 23:35
The problem is what gives Mikuru the motivation to go back into the past? Is it that she's destined to go back there, or was there something else involved that might have caused Kyon to not see what he had to do? Good question. If it wasn't touched upon in the episode 10 thread, I'm pretty sure it might have been answered in Kinny Riddle's spoiler up to novel Volume 6 here:http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=558949&postcount=4
Read only if you dare! :D
That'd be Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, which has not been covered and foreshadows Suzumiya Haruhi no Shoushitsu (The Disappearance of Suzumiya Haruhi). If they went that far, maybe they might make a second season?
Also, some things I thought about...
1. There was no need for Asahina Mikuru (adult) to come to the past to tell Kyon about Snow White. In fact, during the time he was stuck in closed space with Haruhi (volume 1), Yuki had given him the message "sleeping beauty". That alone would have been enough.
2. Asakura Ryouko is actually wrong in saying that Yuki might decide to kill Kyon because the higher-ups said so. Not because Yuki has some sort of "subtle love" for Kyon, but because at the time of volume 1, she was taking care of Kyon and Mikuru from the future (volume 3, Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody). If Kyon were to be killed then and there, there would certainly be a nasty time paradox, and Ryouko would be blamed for it. Of course, Yuki can't tell Ryouko that; call it a Temporal Prime Directive of sorts? (Star Trek ftw)
Based on that and the fact Yuki could contact her future self when Kyon and Mikuru approached her in Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody, Yuki probably predicted that she was going to win against Ryouko. The only thing she didn't know is whether Ryouko would surrender or if she would have her interface disconnected.
1. They did it because it was there in the novel, simple. There was absolutely no reason for them to remove that scene from the anime, especially if you consider Kyoani's superb track record on this anime for sticking to the novel story.
The other reason for this scene is answered in the response to your other question below.
2. Asakura's not wrong, she only mentioned it as a possibility, but she never said WHEN it would happen. Maybe a couple of years down the road (when we're at vol.11 of the novel or something :heh: ), Yuki's creator will change its (their?) mind, and Yuki will be ordered to kill Kyon, you never know. Until then, it will always remain a possibility.
The problem is what gives Mikuru the motivation to go back into the past? Is it that she's destined to go back there, or was there something else involved that might have caused Kyon to not see what he had to do?
It's her job. Her present (that is, Kyon's future) is tied into her past (Kyon's present). If she doesn't do what she's supposed to do, she will destory her future.
Adult Mikuru's FIRST appearance (to tell Kyon about Snow White) was the beginning of a chain of events that demands Mikuru to continue with her mission to provide Kyon with further guidances throughout various events (Bamboo Leaf, Shoushitsu, Inbou, etc.). If she were to miss any of those "events" (well, in a way, she can't really miss it :heh: ), Kyon would most likely fail in his tasks (or not even knowing they existed), and the future would be changed (which means Mikuru's future would be destroyed).
For example, if Mikuru didn't tell Kyon about the Snow White, he might have not been able to make the connection and did what he did at the end of vol.1. If that happens, then forget Mikuru, everyone's future is gone.
Adult Mikuru/Little Mikuru's role probably became the clearest during "Asahina Mikuru no Yuutsu" and "Suzumiya Haruhi no Inbou" (vol.7):
When the Mikuru from one week in the future was sent back one week into the past by the future Kyon without any explanations. Then, while the present Kyon is wondering wtf the future him is trying to do, the future (adult) Mikuru begins to direct him (present Kyon) to carry out various odd errands together with the future (little) Mikuru.
Just like during "Asahina Mikuru no Yuutsu", the directions Kyon and Mikuru received from adult Mikuru during Inbou was certainly odd (throw a turtle into the river, for example). But we eventually learn that everything has a meaning attached to it (for example, we will eventually know just exactly how important the throwing of the turtle was to Mikuru's future).
Even though it may seem pointless or meaningless at the time, everything adult Mikuru is doing is done to protect the integrity of her (and everybody else's) future.
This is again another reason why I really despise temporal mechanics, seems like every one and its mutha is trying muck things up in one way or another...
Pakxenon
2006-06-22, 00:30
Yuki is the one causing all the ruckus...
1. Episode viewing order. The episodes are shown to maximize character development, and a prominent character is Yuki. Right in the middle of Remote Island Syndrome, they smack in Mysterique Sign so the "lonely scene" can explain why Kyon suspects Yuki in the second part of the two-parter.
2. Day of Sagittarius. While it is Haruhi's fault for bringing in the CCP for a 5vs5 LAN, Yuki was developed as she showed interest in the fun of computer games.
3. Yuki wanted some fun in the Literature Club room, so she brought Haruhi to the room.
4. Even though Live A Live takes place before Day of Sagittarius, Yuki wanted some fun, so a guitar was placed in her hand (or rather, she wanted to play it) and she made it rain (Episode 4 - she can alter the weather) so that a crowd would form under her feet. She is also responsible for the lead and rhythm guitarists' injuries. >=)
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-06-22, 00:33
Yuki is the one causing all the ruckus...
1. Episode viewing order. The episodes are shown to maximize character development, and a prominent character is Yuki. Right in the middle of Remote Island Syndrome, they smack in Mysterique Sign so the "lonely scene" can explain why Kyon suspects Yuki in the second part of the two-parter.
2. Day of Sagittarius. While it is Haruhi's fault for bringing in the CCP for a 5vs5 LAN, Yuki was developed as she showed interest in the fun of computer games.
3. Yuki wanted some fun in the Literature Club room, so she brought Haruhi to the room.
4. Even though Live A Live takes place before Day of Sagittarius, Yuki wanted some fun, so a guitar was placed in her hand (or rather, she wanted to play it) and she made it rain (Episode 4 - she can alter the weather) so that a crowd would form under her feet. She is also responsible for the lead and rhythm guitarists' injuries. >:)
Trust me, Yuki didn't do all this...
If she wants to make changes, her changes would be HUGE. If we ever get to Season 2, you will know what I mean.
Anime Online
2006-06-22, 01:34
She is also responsible for the lead and rhythm guitarists' injuries. >=)
I don't know, that sounds kinda far-fetched. Hatching up schemes to keep Haruhi entertained would sound more in line with the doings of Itsuki's Agency.
velocity7
2006-06-22, 10:01
Even though Live A Live takes place before Day of Sagittarius, Yuki wanted some fun, so a guitar was placed in her hand (or rather, she wanted to play it) and she made it rain (Episode 4 - she can alter the weather) so that a crowd would form under her feet. She is also responsible for the lead and rhythm guitarists' injuries. >=)
What basis do you have for this? ^^;
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-06-22, 10:53
I don't know, that sounds kinda far-fetched. Hatching up schemes to keep Haruhi entertained would sound more in line with the doings of Itsuki's Agency.
Indeed. As a general rule, Yuki's duties involve cleaning up the fallout of Haruhi's actions, but not to actively do anything but observing her otherwise.
Major Kerina
2006-06-23, 18:37
Haruhi seems like a better suspect for the sudden rain although Yuki can change the weather and make it rain.
arcticphoenix16
2006-06-24, 12:16
This has just occurred to me. Remember how Nagato, Asahina, and Koizumi kept mentioning about something happened 3 years ago (also episode 2/1, Haruhi to Kyon: "Have I met you before?") How can they complete the season without explaining that? Also that picture of bamboo in episode 9/14, so I'm guessing that they would an hour special for the last episode. First half being Bamboo Leaf, and second half is SH no Yuutsu VI, keeping the big revelations til last.
I just think that what happened 3 years ago is too big to hold til second season, if we ever get a second season.
Well, it can be something fans can look forward to in the next season and also as a promise that there will be a next season.
Major Kerina
2006-06-24, 18:02
Well, it can be something fans can look forward to in the next season and also as a promise that there will be a next season.
That's what I'm intently hoping for even if next season means Fall 2007 *hopes for sooner though*
Noppapana
2006-06-25, 17:34
is there any chance that the last episode will be chapter 7 of the first volume ?
is there any chance that the last episode will be chapter 7 of the first volume ?The chance = 100%, its already show in the episode 14 preview lol
Even before half the show was shown, most of us already know the last episode would be chapter 7, the anime is about the 1st novel anyway.
Major Kerina
2006-06-25, 18:10
I hope they include the Epilogue too.
Noppapana
2006-06-25, 18:17
The chance = 100%, its already show in the episode 14 preview lol
Even before half the show was shown, most of us already know the last episode would be chapter 7, the anime is about the 1st novel anyway.
i havent watched the preview nor the ep yet
i have only seen screenshots
Major Kerina
2006-06-28, 21:20
The hidden text on the website intrigues me... I know it's a reference to one of the episodes in the novel but the way it's numbered intrigues me even more.
(3) (3) (3) (3) (3) (3) (3) (3) (3)
1-3 4-6 7-9 10-12 13-15 16-18 19-21 22-24 25-27
It seems rather arbitrary after this point, near to just doubling it.
(9) (17) (32) (194) (769) (1488) (1023)
28-36 37-53 54-86 87-280 281-1049 1050-2537 2538-7560
(7937) (1)
7561-15497 15498
The 3's are lined up on the top line and end on the top line. I think we can plausibly surmise it's a tease that there will, at the very least, be a 2nd season and it'll be 13 episodes. The rest of the numbers are probably part of the in-joke but those number seem peculiar.
Btw, apologies if this "3"s numbering has already been pointed out. It just struck me as intentional.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-06-28, 21:31
This has just occurred to me. Remember how Nagato, Asahina, and Koizumi kept mentioning about something happened 3 years ago (also episode 2/1, Haruhi to Kyon: "Have I met you before?") How can they complete the season without explaining that? Also that picture of bamboo in episode 9/14, so I'm guessing that they would an hour special for the last episode. First half being Bamboo Leaf, and second half is SH no Yuutsu VI, keeping the big revelations til last.
I just think that what happened 3 years ago is too big to hold til second season, if we ever get a second season.
But that's the problem; it's too big!
The plot revolving around 3 years ago is quite complicated, and therefore could not hope to be explained in one or two episodes.
This is/was my own theory, which I haven't seen mentioned in this topic, and I clicked on most of the spoilers (pretty much all of them except for volumes I haven't read yet).
I've only watched the entire anime series and read all of Volume 1, so this can't be a spoiler for more than that:
Haruhi became God-like three years ago. Rather than having awakened a power which only she possessed, however, perhaps she achieved a state through her thoughts, and accessed a power through the choices she made for herself, which is the result of a hidden law of the universe. Similarly, Kyon had experienced similar feelings, which allowed him to reach a state like hers, but because he made different choices he didn't come to access the same power. Or perhaps he did, but never used it in any significant way, or in a way that would allow others to be aware of it (as hers does).
There is one claim I know of which would make Kyon seem less substantial than Haruhi. His lack of a name is, indeed, very suspicious. Many probably would think, he's less real because he doesn't seem to have a full name. You could say that the fact that he never narrates his real name is because of some cosmic force that's not allowing him to realize it; however, sometimes I think that it may just because he never wanted, or needed, to have one. Perhaps others know his name, but he never thinks of it himself. If he holds the same status as Haruhi, maybe the way in which only his nickname exists to him is similar to the way in which aliens, time-travelers, and espers are outside of Haruhi's knowledge.
Okay, to be honest, I've pretty much abandoned this except for the fact that I don't think Kyon will be only important in reference to Haruhi (or at least, that she exists for him as much as he does for her) and that what makes Haruhi special are her thoughts and/or choices, rather than she being special in herself.... Just my literary sense, I think. Actually, the theory Liquidzero references at http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=557599&postcount=117 makes a whole lot of sense... Wish I knew where he read it.
This is/was my own theory, which I haven't seen mentioned in this topic, and I clicked on most of the spoilers (pretty much all of them except for volumes I haven't read yet).
I've only watched the entire anime series and read all of Volume 1, so this can't be a spoiler for more than that:
Haruhi became God-like three years ago. Rather than having awakened a power which only she possessed, however, perhaps she achieved a state through her thoughts, and accessed a power through the choices she made for herself, which is the result of a hidden law of the universe. Similarly, Kyon had experienced similar feelings, which allowed him to reach a state like hers, but because he made different choices he didn't come to access the same power. Or perhaps he did, but never used it in any significant way, or in a way that would allow others to be aware of it (as hers does).
There is one claim I know of which would make Kyon seem less substantial than Haruhi. His lack of a name is, indeed, very suspicious. Many probably would think, he's less real because he doesn't seem to have a full name. You could say that the fact that he never narrates his real name is because of some cosmic force that's not allowing him to realize it; however, sometimes I think that it may just because he never wanted, or needed, to have one. Perhaps others know his name, but he never thinks of it himself. If he holds the same status as Haruhi, maybe the way in which only his nickname exists to him is similar to the way in which aliens, time-travelers, and espers are outside of Haruhi's knowledge.
Okay, to be honest, I've pretty much abandoned this except for the fact that I don't think Kyon will be only important in reference to Haruhi (or at least, that she exists for him as much as he does for her) and that what makes Haruhi special are her thoughts and/or choices, rather than she being special in herself.... Just my literary sense, I think. Actually, the theory Liquidzero references at http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=557599&postcount=117 makes a whole lot of sense... Wish I knew where he read it.lol you've indirectly quoted me :D, that was a theory I had quite long ago.
But I think I'm not really standing by that theory anymore, for that I'm starting to think that Kyon is much more simpler than we think and he really doesn't have any powers at all... except the power of love:D And here's a much later theory I posted: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=590587&postcount=134
My theories are randomly generated most of the time so, stuff may not be true at the end lol
The Sphinx
2006-06-29, 23:08
Let's talk about Tanabata.
What is Tanabata?
Tanabata is sometimes called the Star Festival in English. It occurs on the seventh day of the seventh month of the old Chinese calendar, which would typically fall in mid August to early September. Since the Japanese have adopted the Gregorian calendar many people now celebrate it on July 7, while a smaller number still use the old date. Two things to know about Tanabata besides the date are the legend behind the festival and the tradition of displaying Tanabata trees.
The Legend
Tanabata is based on an old Chinese legend about a pair of star-crossed lovers. Here is a little page (http://www.tokyowithkids.com/entertainment/tanabata_myth.html) that gives one version of the story. I'll summarize it:
Orihime was a daughter of the Emperor of the Stars, a skilled weaver and very beautiful. One day she met a handsome young herdsman from across the river named Hikoboshi. They fell in love. In fact they were so much in love, and spent so much time together, they began to neglect their duties. Orihime did no weaving, and Hikoboshi's animals wandered. The Emperor of the Stars became very angry at the young couple and as punishment for their irresponsibility forbade them from ever meeting each other again. Hikoboshi was sent to his side of the river and they were not allowed to cross.
Orihime still did not go back to weaving. She spent all her time at the riverbank hoping to catch a glance of her lover. The Emperor of the Stars was finally moved to grant her wish, to see her beloved Hikoboshi... but only once a year, and only if they worked hard. So every year, on the seventh day of the seventh month, Orihime and Hikoboshi are allowed to cross the river in the sky and spend one day together, and on that day people celebrate the reunion of the two celestial lovers.
In the sky Orihime is the star Vega, and Hikoboshi is the star Altair. On a summer night you can see them seperated by the great river in the sky, the Milky Way.
The Tanabata Tree
This is the time of year to set up bamboo trees and tie colored pieces of paper to the branches, sort of like Christmas trees. If you have a special wish you can write it on you piece of paper and tie it to a tree. The star-crossed Orihime and Hikoboshi lovers may grant these wishes.
Tanabata and Haruhi
Tanabata is probably the most romantic day of the year, and it's also one of the best days for having your wishes come true. Haruhi obviously gets her wishes granted on a regular basis (though she doesn't usually know it), and she certainly has a romantic interest in her life. But these facts aren't unique to Haruhi... the romance part, at least, is shared by people all over the world. Is there any deeper connection between Haruhi and the Star Festival? Yes.
1) A major event in Haruhi's life occurs on Tanabata. These are MAJOR novel spoilers so don't click on the following unless you're willing to know about stuff that will be shown in the second anime series (IF there's a second anime series):
The "event from three years ago" that everyone talks about- the moment that Haruhi turned on her power and became the center of attention of Yuki's Integrated Data Entities, Mikuru's time travellers, and Itsuki's Agency- that all-important event happened on the night of Tanabata. She met Kyon (from the future!) and together drew a pattern in an alien language on the field of her junior high school.
2) There are hints about Haruhi's continuing interest in Tanabata in the anime (and the novels). At the beginning of Episode 7 Kyon says "After spending Tanabata in a state of melancholy Haruhi made a full recovery from her blues during term exams and went back to doing whatever she wanted." It's obviously a big day for her, but a sad day. Later we see other proof of the Tanabata connection:
http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/6769/tanabata15bd.th.jpg (http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tanabata15bd.jpg)
That is SOS Dan's Tanabata tree, complete with paper wishes. The screencap comes from Episode 9, but it can also be seen in the background of Episodes 7 and 11.
3) KyoAni has given us a lot of visual hints about Haruhi's connection to Tanabata. Let's take a close look at the EP.
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/285/tanabata22po.th.jpg (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tanabata22po.jpg)
This is one of the first frames of the EP. It looks like a classic Disney shot: A beautiful girl looking up at the night sky, perhaps making a wish on a shooting star. Notice this is a younger version of Haruhi.
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/257/tanabata37cv.th.jpg (http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tanabata37cv.jpg)
A few frames later Haruhi has tranformed into her North High self, but she's still looking longingly up into the night sky.
http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/6378/tanabata47ex.th.jpg (http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tanabata47ex.jpg)
Then a hand comes out of the sky. For most people in the English-speaking audience this probably seems like a clear reference to Michelangelo's famous painting in the Sistine chapel showing God reaching down to touch Adam's finger. I don't think that's the point KyoAni was trying to make. Haruhi doesn't strike me as someone waiting for a vision from God, and I don't think the traditional Western view of God really fits into Haruhi's universe anyway. Also, they don't just touch fingers- the hands clasp, and it looks like Haruhi expects to be pulled up into the sky, or to pull the person in the sky down to her. Haruhi looks very surprised and happy to meet this mysterious person in the sky.
To the Japanese this might be a reminder of the Tanabata story. Haruhi would be in the role of Orihime the Weaver, and the hand descending from the sky would by Hikoboshi crossing the great divide to meet her, or to pull her to him.
http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/4311/tanabata52ec.th.jpg (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tanabata52ec.jpg)
And then we go for a little journey through the stars. Notice something odd about the people Haruhi meets along the star-road- She sees all the major characters in the story, and several minor characters, but one person is missing. Where's Kyon?
http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/3928/tanabata69qa.th.jpg (http://img240.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tanabata69qa.jpg)
At the end of EP we take a deep, deep look into Haruhi's eyes and see... More stars.
Tanabata and Kyon
If Haruhi is in the role of Orihime then Kyon must play the role of the Herdsman Hikoboshi. He is Haruhi's love interest, after all. Are there any other connections between Kyon and Tanabata? Again, yes.
1) More major novel spoilers, read at your own risk:
As I mentioned before the older Kyon was present when Haruhi's powers were manifest three years ago on the evening of Tanabata. He meets Haruhi and then vanishes from her life for three years. When Haruhi meets him at North High, during their first real conversation, Haruhi asks him "Have I met you somewhere before?" Kyon later says that was "the key", the moment that started all the SOS Dan craziness.
2) Who is Kyon, anyway? What do we know about him? Not much. He attended junior high with Kunikada, and he had a reputation for liking strange girls. He has a family but we don't know any of their names- we call his little sister simply "Little Sister". The strangest thing about Kyon is we don't even know his own name; no one ever uses it. In place of a name he has this strange nickname "Kyon".
"Kyon" is a kind of japanese deer, but it's not real obvious why the name stuck to him. We're actually told how he got the name- his aunt just started calling him that one day "several years ago", and his little sister thought it was funny. She started using it, and eventually so did everyone else. There is, however, another possible meaning of the word "Kyon"...
The Tanabata story isn't unique to Japan. It's also found in China, south-east Asia, and Korea. There are usually small differences between the circumstances of the story, and the names change from place to place, but the central idea of the stars Vega and Altair representing separated lovers remains the same. Here is a book (http://www.umanitoba.ca/outreach/cm/vol12/no12/theloveoftwosstars.html) telling the Korean version if the myth:
The Love of Two Stars is a retelling of a Korean legend about the stars Altair and Vega, or Kyonu and Jingnyo as they are called in Korea. The stars approach each other in the Milky Way on the seventh day of the seventh lunar month. According to the legend, Kyonu was a farmer who raised strong cattle while Jingnyo was a weaver who wove the most beautiful and durable cloth. They both lived in a starry kingdom in the sky...
Kyonu is the Korean name for the star Altair, the Herdsman in the Tanabata story.
Possible meanings
What does all this mean for the story of Suzumiya Haruhi? I think there are several plausible theories:
Theory 1) It's just another example of Haruhi's power. In this theory Haruhi really isn't Orihime, and Kyon isn't really Hikoboshi. However, since Haruhi believes in these kinds of things, since she believes in star-crossed lovers, then her own special relationship ends up mimicking the Tanabata story. Kyon is just a normal guy who happens to be the lucky(?) one Haruhi falls in love with.
Theory 2) It's literally true. Haruhi really is the goddess Orihime, and Kyon is the Herdsman. Somehow they have escaped the fate of only meeting once a year. This would perhaps explain Haruhi's amazing powers, and it would explain why Kyon was the key to unlocking them. But it doesn't help us understand why neither of them seem to realize their true identities.
Theory 3) Tanabata is just metaphor for what's actually happening. Haruhi isn't really a goddess, but she has powers like one, and Kyon isn't a normal human. There's something strange about SOS Dan as we know it... It seems to be missing a member. Haruhi originally said she wanted to meet "Aliens, time travellers, sliders, or espers." A slider is a traveller from another dimension. None of them have appeared in the club... unless one of the members is one and doesn't know it.
Could Kyon be the slider and not know it? It would match the idea of "a great divide" between the two lovers, since it's hard to imagine a bigger barrier than the problem of travelling through alternate dimensions. Maybe he was summoned here by Haruhi like Itsuki was "awakened" by her, and this dimension is so similar to his old one that he doesn't know it happened- the exact same except Haruhi only exists in this dimension. But there's the problem of Kyon's family...
Or perhaps Haruhi is the slider herself. She wished on the Tanabata tree to find a lover in another world and it actually happened- though she doesn't realize it. The "time quake" three years ago happened when Haruhi crossed into our dimension.
Summary
Whatever deeper interpretation of the story it's clear that Tanabata is very important to Haruhi, that she really wishes she could meet her own lover from across the stars, and that she thinks Kyon might be the one. This is why Kyon is the "trigger" for Haruhi's eccentricity, it's why she listens to only him, it's why she goes into a depression when he treats her badly.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2006-06-29, 23:38
Kyon is also Greek for "dog", but I guess that isn't very glamorous?:heh:
outcast_within
2006-06-30, 05:17
lol you've indirectly quoted me :D, that was a theory I had quite long ago.
But I think I'm not really standing by that theory anymore, for that I'm starting to think that Kyon is much more simpler than we think and he really doesn't have any powers at all...
argh when i quote someone i can see the spoiler didn't look though
anyway i think he has powers. the power of love :D
Let's talk about Tanabata.
The Legend
Tanabata is based on an old Chinese legend about a pair of star-crossed lovers. Here is a little page (http://www.tokyowithkids.com/entertainment/tanabata_myth.html) that gives one version of the story. I'll summarize it:
:D, this legend has a partial difference between the original story which is widespread in China.
By the bye, THIS STORY (http://www.cbe21.com/subject/english/printer.php?article_id=1743) is closer to the original chinese legend.
In China Tanager tree is no more than grapevine.
Most of the Chinese know the other beautiful story that ppl can hear a conversation between Orihime and Hikoboshi under the grapevine at Tanabata's night.
Maybe there are some changes in Japanese Culture. Hmm...
BTW, The Star Festival of 2006 is July 31st according to the current old Chinese calendar.
Kinny Riddle
2006-06-30, 06:30
Let's talk about Tanabata.
The "event from three years ago" that everyone talks about- the moment that Haruhi turned on her power and became the center of attention of Yuki's Integrated Data Entities, Mikuru's time travellers, and Itsuki's Agency- that all-important event happened on the night of Tanabata. She met Kyon (from the future!) and together drew a pattern in an alien language on the field of her junior high school.
A very interesting theory overall save this part above.
When Kyon went back with Mikuru for the first time to help Haruhi three years ago, Haruhi had already begun her eccentric activities for some time. It was July 7th. Haruhi said in chapter 6 of Volume 1 that she decided to begin her antics when she started junior high, which was in April. Plus, Yuki was already there on "standby" mode, otherwise Kyon wouldn't be able to return to the future without her help. This means Yuki was already here for three months at least.
So the "event" from three years ago" should be sometime on or before April three years ago.
For more details, see my timeline in this thread.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31059
A very interesting theory overall save this part above.
When Kyon went back with Mikuru for the first time to help Haruhi three years ago, Haruhi had already begun her eccentric activities for some time. It was July 7th. Haruhi said in chapter 6 of Volume 1 that she decided to begin her antics when she started junior high, which was in April. Plus, Yuki was already there on "standby" mode, otherwise Kyon wouldn't be able to return to the future without her help. This means Yuki was already here for three months at least.
So the "event" from three years ago" should be sometime on or before April three years ago.
For more details, see my timeline in this thread.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31059
Hiruhi's ability to sketch a meaningful symbol on July 7th 3 years ago indicated that she had had the power to create a flood of information.
Pakxenon
2006-07-02, 19:42
I predict what they'll show as the opening for the second season:
...Continuing from ep14 of S1, they'll be in the cafe and talking about how the members of the SOS Brigade are aliens, time travellers, and ESPers.
Half of me is also saying that it will ruin the mood for the rest of the season, however.
...
I think the making of the cultural festival movie will be a series on it's own. It's too long (5 chapters?) that it will take up the other half of space for the second season - there's a very high possibility for Shoushitsu, and probably 6-7 episodes for that, plus a couple of short stories from the other novels to keep the trademark random-episode-broadcast-order.
Truth-kun
2006-07-02, 20:26
Perhaps the second season might consist of the Time Travelling Arc (Volume 6 - Disappearance - mainly) with the keyplot episode 'Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody'. They might throw in the "new enemy" from Snow Mountain Syndrome, but I have no idea what comes after next.
If however they focused on Volume 2 (Sighs), the season might be a little flat because only a few important key plots happened during that time.
Kaioshin Sama
2006-07-03, 01:22
Who said there was a second season coming?
relentlessflame
2006-07-03, 03:40
Who said there was a second season coming?To be clear, no one has said so, at least certainly not officially. They've announced no second season, OVA series, movie, or any other form of animated sequel at this point. People are just speculating that there will be some form of follow-up based on the show's runaway success, and the fact that many more stories from the novels remain to be told. But it's not as if that's ever guaranteed a sequel in the past, either. That being said, announcing a sequel wouldn't be a huge surprise; after all, they are in the business to make money, and a series with a proven trackrecord is arguably better than trying to find something new that may or may not pan out. All we can do, though, is wait and see.
I just think not making a second season would be a crime. Towards profit, and fans. lol. From a company point of view, not caring about fans is ok and logical (Remember, George L.? :p ) but ignoring profit is stupid. At least that's my opinion. Then, they've got the material. So yeah, that would be a huge surprise if they didn't continue.
From an artistic point of view, as a scriptwriter, there's no way I would let things like as they are in the end of ep.14. Too many doors opened without being closed.
Would YOU stop? :confused:
outcast_within
2006-07-04, 16:45
argh when i quote someone i can see the spoiler didn't look though
anyway i think he has powers. the power of love :D
I was right?!? :D
cool
Noppapana
2006-07-04, 16:49
Haruhism compounds all
no but honestly i think there are loads of japanese otakus who want a sequel
i think they will have more influence then us (just look at Gundam Seed Destiny)
Major Kerina
2006-07-06, 18:22
Oooo Tanabata is coming up *ties a wish to a bamboo stalk that KyoAni will announce they'll follow up Kanon remake with 'The Disappearance of Haruhi Suzumiya'*
ellifeedn
2007-03-14, 19:18
I have a theory. Maybe Kyon met Haruhi before she became "God" and gave her the idea of looking specifically for aliens, time travelers, espers, and sliders. Whether or not it happened after the baseball game doesn't really matter (though I sort of hope it's after).
panzerfan
2007-03-14, 22:57
I do not believe that Snow Mountain in itself would be sufficient without explaination coming from Intrigues. I actually find Snow Mountain to be sufficiently short a segment that is suspenseful enough to be a standalone movie, or OVA. Disappearance though would make a great s2 centerpiece, with augmentations from the previous volumes, maybe even with Endless Eight.
so who shot nagato to repair to haruhi/god timeline in vol 4?
PastPrime
2007-03-14, 23:40
so who shot nagato to repair to haruhi/god timeline in vol 4?
Nagato shot Nagato. Kyon talked to Kyon. Asahina Big put Asahina Little to sleep.
HurricaneHige
2007-03-15, 01:01
for everyone's sanity sake i hope they make season 2 :3
but if they do make it...wouldnt it be good if they include at least 5 volumes (3-8) and possibly extend season 2 to about 26 ep (full season)?
i mean by the time they start production vol.9 will be out, so they wont overtake the novel.
panzerfan
2007-03-15, 01:37
They wouldn't include that many volumes in my opinoin. There's still the making of Adventures to explain. (I imagine that's a good way for S2 to open itself, with none other than Sighs).
Disappearance would be front and center, and in itself, there's so much to cover in that one book alone (maybe 6 episodes)...
The story regarding Adventures is easily going to take up 3 episodes, if not more.
Mysterious Sign and Bamboo Leaf should be dealt with as well (2 episodes), and that would leave time for Endless Eight (1-2).
Covering Where'd the Cat Go? (1) and Charmed at First Sight LOVER (1) should conclude the season, at count of 14 episodes.
I am suggesting this due to the significance of Snow Mountain as a precursor to Intrigues, as well as how dramatic the story is. That way, LOVERS and Where'd the Cat GO would hint to a potential season 3, and season 3 can structure itself on explaining the gap, and pick itself from there.
Nagato shot Nagato. Kyon talked to Kyon. Asahina Big put Asahina Little to sleep.
and when was that this happened- b4 or after ryoko appeared
X207:
The prologue to Volume 7 explains how Kyon went back to fix the alternate world. Once you read it I'm sure everything will be clear ;P
HurricaneHige
2007-03-15, 10:47
They wouldn't include that many volumes in my opinoin. There's still the making of Adventures to explain. (I imagine that's a good way for S2 to open itself, with none other than Sighs).
Disappearance would be front and center, and in itself, there's so much to cover in that one book alone (maybe 6 episodes)...
The story regarding Adventures is easily going to take up 3 episodes, if not more.
Mysterious Sign and Bamboo Leaf should be dealt with as well (2 episodes), and that would leave time for Endless Eight (1-2).
Covering Where'd the Cat Go? (1) and Charmed at First Sight LOVER (1) should conclude the season, at count of 14 episodes.
I am suggesting this due to the significance of Snow Mountain as a precursor to Intrigues, as well as how dramatic the story is. That way, LOVERS and Where'd the Cat GO would hint to a potential season 3, and season 3 can structure itself on explaining the gap, and pick itself from there.
The reason is that i felt the first season was too short and it appears they only wanted to do the first volume and to fill in they pulled random short stories from other volumes to scrap up first season, therefore if they actually follow the volumes closely they should be able to extend the series to at least 26 ep, that should work in their favour from the business standpoint and it should please the fans
Two 13-episode seasons usually generate more profit than a 26-episode season, both in terms of DVD sales and merchandise. That's why I think that the second season of Haruhi will be 13/14 episodes and not 26.
If they make Season 2 based on DISAPPEARANCE, it would make a very Yuki-centric season. Chapters they may include in the second season are, IMO:
- SIGHS (4 EPs)
- Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody (1 EP)
- DISAPPEARANCE (6 EPs)
- Charmed (1 EP)
- Endless Eight (1 EP)
Either that, or they're going to jump even further into the story by animating Snow Mountain Syndrome (2 EPs) for the sake of a 2-parter ala Lone Island Syndrome, and Wandering Shadow (May take up to 2 EPs, can be squeezed into 1 EP if they cut out the flashbacks) to match with Mysterious Sign.
But I think that animating Wandering Shadow is jumping a bit too far, since it concerns things about volume 7.
Mirrinus
2007-03-15, 18:27
Nah...I think if they're doing Snow Mountain instead of Sighs, then they'll be throwing in Where did the Cat Go? as well, since both stories take place on the same trip. And for the last episode...I'm hoping for Suzumiya Haruhi Theater as episode 1, for the same crazyness factor as the first season. ^_^
Furudanuki
2007-03-15, 19:03
for everyone's sanity sake i hope they make season 2 :3
but if they do make it...wouldnt it be good if they include at least 5 volumes (3-8) and possibly extend season 2 to about 26 ep (full season)?
i mean by the time they start production vol.9 will be out, so they wont overtake the novel.
KyoAni is doing Lucky☆Star after they finish Kanon. And there has been an official announcement that they will be animating CLANNAD. Since KyoAni only works on one series at a time (so far, anyway), that means that any Haruhi season 2 will probably be at least 3+ seasons down the road. So we might have volume 10 of the novel out before another animated series gets underway. :heh:
For the first episode of the second season, they need to start off with the volume 2 prologue. http://baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume2_Prologue . They'd have the intro scene be the conversation between Kyon and Haruhi, and cut to the OP at either "DON'T MESS WITH ME!" or "However, if Haruhi had any sense of what was happening around her, I don't know what the world would be like."
I've been thinking a lot about what kind of arrangement they'll do for a second season...
The way the series works, it seems like they could do well if they made each ~13 episodes be miscellaneous stories coupled with a major arc like volumes 4, 7, and 9 (and maybe 10, when it comes out. Volume 2 is an exception since it's largely... well, not really as eventful or complex as the other arcs. Excerpts from it could exist here and there, actually, but it wouldn't work well as a central story, probably.). This is something most people who speculate on the series have noticed.
Of the stories they can pick for further seasons, in major tiers of character/plot development, there are
A) the pre-volume 4 stories which could just have easily have been in the first season (if they'd had room, naturally) and the volume 4 arc,
B (req. volume 4)) the post-volume-4-pre-volume-7 stories (ones which reference the events and incorporated the character development from volume 4), the volume 7 arc, and
C (req. volume 7)) the volume 8 stories (which reference the events and character development from volume 7).
Now, Kyoto Animation may not want to do it in this order. They've shown they can mix it up in ways that the Tanigawa didn't. What I mean by that is: while the stories jumped around the timeline a bit at different points, the major arcs of volumes 1, 4, and 7 were, at the time they were published, the latest-dated stories from the timeline, and no more stories from before the events of each of these major arcs were published after the volume for each major arc. In other words, the character development isn't something Tanigawa ever messes around with like that. KyoAni probably broke up volume 1 throughout the first season because they wanted to be able to have a decent final episode while still having enough material for a full seasons, so they had to do it like that.
However, although it's heavier than the character development from volume 1, I think that the character development from volumes 4 and 7 doesn't require volumes 4 and 7 ahead of time. The first season had standalone stories referencing volume 1's events as "earth-shaking events" or something like that, and Kyon's refusal to discussion with Koizumi how he saved the day. Rather than upsetting anything, it just left a sense of mystery, really. For volume 4, there's the couple times he talks about how realizes now that he cherishes his membership in the SOS Brigade, and how he's sensitive to Yuki. IMO the former references would best be first introduced in the actual events of volume 4 for the best dramatic effect, but if KyoAni had to they could just skip Kyon's inner monologue when he mentions those things. And for volume 7, there's mainly just Kyon remembering the Sneering Bastard angrily, and also constantly speculating about various rival organizations/entities with previous events in mind and with a sense of foreboding. In this case, they could either leave it or skip past Kyon's inner monologue.
But anyway, that's not what I'm really concerned about. Rather, it's this conflict:
1) The progression of the major plot arcs of the series, in volumes 4 and 7, are best understand when you have the context of the previous plot arcs. In other words, while standalone stories can largely be enjoyed without knowledge of the major events that have transpired, major arcs which usually have a heavy impact on character development should be precedented by previously transpired major arcs. For instance, Kyon jumping from following Asahina-san (Big)'s and Yuki's clues in volume 1 to kiss Haruhi, to encountering the irregular and also very serious events of volume 7 (which deeply referenced the idea of the unity of the SOS Brigade in spite of conspiratorial ties, that is first brought up when Kyon talks to Yuki at the end of volume 4 about what he'd do to the Integrated Data Sentient Entity)... is much more impressive when you can see it develop like that. Basically what I mean is: they shouldn't air a major plot arc until they've aired all the previous plot arcs--that is, do them in order.
2) If they do a 13-episode season, or even a 26-episode season, they would probably only leave room the major plot arcs for volumes 4 and 7 unless they adjust the proportion of standalone stories they had in season one (which would mean that they'd be losing a lot of material, really, since after a certain time it probably seems out of place when you already know what will happen 6 months later). I think that if they included all the (IMO) necessary standalone chapters like Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody and Snow Mountain Syndrome and did the major arcs of volumes 4 7 and 9 they could maybe fit it into 26 episodes... but that'd be an uncomfortable squeeze. However, something like that wold be the only option if they want to have a Haruhi-centric theme to the whole thing (although for all I know volume 9 might be only as Haruhi-centric as volume 7, and focus on Koizumi more...).
In other words, there's a conflict between airing a season that has "Haruhi" as a central theme to it more so than other members of the SOS Brigade, and airing things in order and over a reasonable amount of episodes. So, I think KyoAni will compromise and end up airing volume 7 but not concluding it on the last chapter of the volume like they did the first season, over 13 episodes...
Although, if they only ever made 2 series of Suzumiya Haruhi, it'd be a shame to just have those first two arcs. So maybe they'd consider two seasons' worth of episodes to add in volume 7, and plan ahead for a third that would do a book 9/10 type thing. But yeah whether the series is wrapping up and whether or not KyoAni would feel inclined to animate the entire thing (I suppose I have to doubt it, unfortunately--they didn't feel it necessary to do significant amounts of FMP, after all ) are just something I can't speculate on.
(What I can speculate on is more than is probably healthy for a human being, as you can probably tell from reading this post....)
^ The above spoiler tag doesn't actually spoil anything if you click it, there's individual spoile tags within the spoiler-tagged section itself to do that job--I just figured I would make it small like that to spare people who don't read the novels from what to them, and to most others perhaps, could just be a giant useless wall of text.
KyoAni is doing Lucky☆Star after they finish Kanon. And there has been an official announcement that they will be animating CLANNAD. Since KyoAni only works on one series at a time (so far, anyway), that means that any Haruhi season 2 will probably be at least 3+ seasons down the road. So we might have volume 10 of the novel out before another animated series gets underway. :heh:
How are you imagining the timeline? I know that Lucky Star is in April, but that's two seasons away from the second season as it was rumored to be in fall (if they only made CLANNAD 13 episodes, though I suppose they probably shouldn't do that from what I've heard of CLANNAD), and anyway, did we know that it will be airing this year? Edit: Just found out ANN says October, though apparently it seems doubtful--hmm, even if that's the case the summer season could still be open though couldn't it (hypothetically)? Although in that case the source of the news about season two would be incorrect about the release... of course, they could have changed it since then, but yeah. It's difficult to figure this stuff out.
Btw, Volume 10 should be coming out pretty soon I think--they said it'd be shortly after volume 9. So I imagine definitely by the end of the year.
quigonkenny
2007-03-17, 12:13
Btw, Volume 10 should be coming out pretty soon I think--they said it'd be shortly after volume 9. So I imagine definitely by the end of the year.
I believe I heard summer quoted, but that's probably a little soon, as it gives at most 5 months between volumes. Definitely some time this year, though.
You made good points on your "wall of text," as you put it, but I think they'd probably do better to leave volumes 9 and 10 out of the mix until they've at least gotten everything earlier out of the way first. Being that a new school year is starting with volume 9, there's bound to be a bit of a "soft reset" of sorts, as there are sure to be new characters introduced (either as freshmen or additional "mysterious transfer students"), but at the same time, with the evidence we have of Tanigawa's attention to detail, there are bound to be things in 9 and 10 that are based on events in the previous volumes, even in the "one-shot" stories. And you just know that the events in 7 are going to be as important to 9 and 10 as the events in 4 were to 7.
Luckily, all of the pre-9 events remaining (minus the Haruhi Theater events, which, going by the first one, may not even be "real") fit nicely into a 26-ish episode full season, and even better into 2 13-ish episode half seasons, focused around 4 and 7 respectively (with the prerequisite and peripheral short stories attached to their respective seasons). And short seasons would ensure we'd get the best animation quality possible without having to result to a heavy amount of low motion shots (long range shots, panning shots), like they had to do with Kanon.
If they do end up doing a single long season, they'd need to split up the volume 4 and volume 7 arcs to avoid confusion and (massive) spoilers, since the plot of 7 relies so much on 4, but they could tie it together with 3 or 4 episodes covering volume 2 spread out over the course of the season, possibly using those to tie into the filming of the sequel to Asahina Mikuru no Bouken Episode 00 that is supposed to take place in 9.
You know, a thought suddenly hit me. What if KyoAni decided to mix up the timeline even more and animate Volume 7 BEFORE volume 4?
2 EPs - Snow Mountain Syndrome
1 EP - Where did the Cat go?
1 EP - Melancholy of Mikuru
6 EPs - INTRIGUES
4 EPs - SIGHS
They could throw in Theater for the same craziness as Episode 1, maybe Wandering Shadow for another 'client' episode (which they otherwise wouldn't be able to do since it's pretty connected to INTRIGUES). We would get something like the first season, only this time the stories are much more tied to each other.
They would have to obviously remove the prologue for INTRIGUES, and cut out the time traveling Speeches made by Koizumi in the Prologue, but other than that, I don't remember Volume 4 being particularly spoilerish for Volume 7, seeing that Yuki explaining about the Macrospatial-entity makes sense if they animate Snow Mountain Syndrome.
But oh well, it's not likely to happen anyway ;P
Hello,
It has bothered me as to what "Kyon" means as a name. I followed it to the beginnings of Chinese martial arts...but there was something better I thought. Kyon is Greek for dog. He seems to be treated as such by Haruhi. Now if one were to reverse the English spelling?
Maybe?
Mysofa
well i hope volume 9 gets animiated in the second season
serialies
2007-10-02, 22:10
i was just reading about the "cameraman + super narrator" and the "super director" to be a metaphor for their roles theory...and i got an alternateish one
as the director haruhi can make the "characters" do whatever she wants, except for kyon as hes the "camera man/ narrator", i mean hes forced to "watch" (a metaphor for experience) whatever haruhi wants to play out, but as the "camera man/narrator" he's in a position to guide the "director" somewhat, eg when he tells haruhi to put in the "this is all fiction disclaimer" basically meaning (if you think about it this way) --> 1. kyon must exist somewhat outside the worlds haruhi creates or iono...has a immunity of sorts to some of her powers 2. kyon in a sense is they "key" but not in the sense that he is the source of haruhi's powers, but rather he is the key to key to keeping haruhi's power in check ("under a lock") or "unlocking" her powers (cuz you know...she doesnt know shes a god..all it would take is for kyon to be all like"hey im john smith")
Louie Louie
2007-12-04, 19:15
fufufu...wait till we hear of Itsuki's conversation w. Kyon on 'divinity'...
nihaha. :P I am not saying anything more than that.
hmmm... i think i missed this one... ive read all the volumes up to 9... and because Koizumi has so many theories and whatnot i can only remember a few of them... can you give me a hint on what volume this is??? just send me a private message please....:)
panzerfan
2007-12-04, 23:01
Hello,
It has bothered me as to what "Kyon" means as a name. I followed it to the beginnings of Chinese martial arts...but there was something better I thought. Kyon is Greek for dog. He seems to be treated as such by Haruhi. Now if one were to reverse the English spelling?
Maybe?
Mysofa
Reeve's muntjac?
@Louie Louie
This goes back to way earlier in this discussion thread, when Koizumi had presented his point of view on Suzumiya Haruhi.
OkamiNoKaze
2009-06-03, 18:03
Does anyone have any guesses as to how long of a period of time this series will cover? Like only through school, or do you think it'll continue beyond? I think it would be hilarious to see haruhi, out in the world, Most likely as a Private Investigator or something of nature, or starting/joining Japan's version of the FBI's X-Files department, and of course dragging gang along for the ride.
Kaisos Erranon
2009-06-03, 18:07
Does anyone have any guesses as to how long of a period of time this series will cover? Like only through school, or do you think it'll continue beyond? I think it would be hilarious to see haruhi, out in the world, Most likely as a Private Investigator or something of nature, or starting/joining Japan's version of the FBI's X-Files department, and of course dragging gang along for the ride.
Whoa, necromancy. Didn't know you could do that.
*cough*
It'll probably only run till the end of their third year of high school, maybe the second. That's how these stories work, if they aren't just one year.
quigonkenny
2009-06-04, 00:12
Aw, man, what is that stank? Break out the Febreze, guys. This topic's been dead for a good long while... ^_^
I'm roughly with Kaisos on how much of Kyon's school time the novels will cover, although he's probably a little more optimistic on its length than I am. <inb4 subref="Kaisos rant"> And no I don't think it will be ending at Volume 10.</inb4> Thing is, I'm pretty confident that it won't be making it quite to graduation. It'll end shortly after Haruhi "finds out"—or at least shortly after Kyon finds out that Haruhi has found out—and having that happen near or at graduation is just far too convenient for such a genre-savvy series. I do think we'll be seeing it make it to the third year, though, if only to deal with Mikuru leaving. Tsuruya-san won't really be going anywhere, since she'll be an out-of-school fixture for Kyon after coming events surrounding the Future Artifact from the Past, and she'll especially become more pivotal to the group once she takes over the Organization.
(What? You don't think so? Why do you think the officially unofficial anime and manga adaptation has her facing off against Mori-san?)
It'll never happen (unless written by Puyo), but for some reason I love the idea of Mikuru(big) coming back after her(small) and Tsuruya's graduation as a student teacher (SOS-dan faculty sponsor?) and no one but Kyon, Itsuki, and Yuki (and Slider-tan, can't forget Slider-tan) noticing she's aged several years over the break... ^_^
Haruhi: "Waa... Sugoi, Mikuru-chan, you've grown up a bit! As expected of Mikuru-chan, your body has finally had a growth spurt to catch up to your breasts!" **evil grin** "I'll have to go get you some new clothes, but I think I have some you can still fit into..."
Mikuru(big): "Eeeehh?! What do you have there? I'm a teacher now! Nooo... Let me take that off myself! Don't touch me there! Eeeee!"
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-06-04, 08:26
(What? You don't think so? Why do you think the officially unofficial anime and manga adaptation has her facing off against Mori-san?)
That also had Asakura come back in chibi form and Nagato as an eroge player. :p
It'll never happen (unless written by Puyo), but for some reason I love the idea of Mikuru(big) coming back after her(small) and Tsuruya's graduation as a student teacher (SOS-dan faculty sponsor?) and no one but Kyon, Itsuki, and Yuki (and Slider-tan, can't forget Slider-tan) noticing she's aged several years over the break... ^_^
That... oddly would make sense, though I'd assume she'd be using a different given name and claim she's Mikuru's older sister or something.
Haruhi: "Waa... Sugoi, Mikuru-chan, you've grown up a bit! As expected of Mikuru-chan, your body has finally had a growth spurt to catch up to your breasts!" **evil grin** "I'll have to go get you some new clothes, but I think I have some you can still fit into..."
Mikuru(big): "Eeeehh?! What do you have there? I'm a teacher now! Nooo... Let me take that off myself! Don't touch me there! Eeeee!"
:heh:
It'll never happen (unless written by Puyo), but for some reason I love the idea of Mikuru(big) coming back after her(small) and Tsuruya's graduation as a student teacher (SOS-dan faculty sponsor?) and no one but Kyon, Itsuki, and Yuki (and Slider-tan, can't forget Slider-tan) noticing she's aged several years over the break... ^_^
Would that mean that there would be a Mikuru from even further in the future replacing Mikuru(big)'s old role?
Kaisos Erranon
2009-06-04, 16:19
Would that mean that there would be a Mikuru from even further in the future replacing Mikuru(big)'s old role?
No, because now Mikuru has gone back to the future, so there's only one Mikuru. Kinda.
No, because now Mikuru has gone back to the future, so there's only one Mikuru. Kinda.
But presumably there would still be instances when the time travelers would have to take an action that the Mikuru in the present couldn't know about, so they'd send another, older version of Mikuru back in time...
Kaisos Erranon
2009-06-04, 16:25
But presumably there would still be instances when the time travelers would have to take an action that the Mikuru in the present couldn't know about, so they'd send another, older version of Mikuru back in time...
How? They'd have to contact her and I'm pretty sure there's rules against going into the future unless they know that they went into the future.
Why not just send back someone else?
This would assume Mikuru(small) returns to her own present after graduation, and Mikuru(BIG) takes on the role of a teacher/advisor for the SOS-dan in Haruhi's third year.
Thus Mikuru wouldn't have seen Kyon in a long time because she went back to the future, but Kyon would still be seeing Mikuru, but the older (hotter) version. Having Haruhi still use Mikuru is this case might be even weirder since Haruhi may or may not know that this is still Mikuru, and this would be even more a senior/elder since she would be classified as a teacher.
The question is...who would come back to give Mikuru(BIG) or Kyon instructions during that third year if Mikuru(BIG) no longer has a memory of these events because she wasn't there when she was Mikuru(small)?
(Actually, thinking about it...this is suppose to be based on how the author met his wife in high school. We (I guess) don't know anything about his wife really. What's to say that she isn't older than him? Or was a teacher?)
Kaisos Erranon
2009-06-04, 16:42
The question is...who would come back to give Mikuru(BIG) or Kyon instructions during that third year if Mikuru(BIG) no longer has a memory of these events because she wasn't there when she was Mikuru(small)?
Fujiwara (BIG), of course. :D
quigonkenny
2009-06-04, 17:37
How? They'd have to contact her and I'm pretty sure there's rules against going into the future unless they know that they went into the future.
Why not just send back someone else?
What, and miss out on the delicious, delicious irony in having Mikuru(big) being knocked out and Mikuru(MILF) showing up to tell Kyon something that he needs to remember not to tell Mikuru(big), only to be knocked unconscious as she leaves and then Mikura(obaachan) waddles up with her walker and tells Kyon something else he needs to remember not to tell either of the other Mikurus...?
Kaisos Erranon
2009-06-04, 17:46
What, and miss out on the delicious, delicious irony in having Mikuru(big) being knocked out and Mikuru(MILF) showing up to tell Kyon something that he needs to remember not to tell Mikuru(big), only to be knocked unconscious as she leaves and then Mikura(obaachan) waddles up with her walker and tells Kyon something else he needs to remember not to tell either of the other Mikurus...?
Well, Haruhi IS a comedy series... >_>
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-06-04, 19:02
only to be knocked unconscious as she leaves and then Mikura(obaachan) waddles up with her walker and tells Kyon something else he needs to remember not to tell either of the other Mikurus...?
Now that's just taking things too far. Still... the thought of that is priceless. :heh:
Just stopping at Mikuru(MILF) would be making some sort of statement. Basically...who's the father of this woman's child(ren)? Is it Kyon? Is she coming back to setup the situation so Kyon and Mikuru(BIG) have some alone time?
Kaisos Erranon
2009-06-04, 19:21
Just stopping at Mikuru(MILF) would be making some sort of statement. Basically...who's the father of this woman's child(ren)? Is it Kyon? Is she coming back to setup the situation so Kyon and Mikuru(BIG) have some alone time?
Kinda awkward, as Mikuru (BIG) has like 8-10 years on him easily...
That would make her 25 years old or so. Mikuru(MILF) would have some 20-30 years on him at least if things follow Key logic. Slightly awkward, but not outside of reason.
That is assuming that Mikuru(small) is a normally aging human. She could be some form of quick aging clone or something (which would be another reason to not give her age, since she might actually only be three years old or something like that...though the traditionals "women don't talk about their age" is good enough...since she's playful on that question.)
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-06-04, 19:35
she might actually only be three years old or something like that
Please leave the "possibly only three years old" thing to Nagato. I'd rather not think of Kyon as a pedo :heh:
Kaisos Erranon
2009-06-04, 19:37
Please leave the "possibly only three years old" thing to Nagato. I'd rather not think of Kyon as a pedo :heh:
(What's more, Kimidori might be even younger.)
For that matter, Kyon IS a pedo, as we will discover if and when any REAL second season emerges, heh.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-06-04, 19:43
For that matter, Kyon IS a pedo, as we will discover if and when any REAL second season emerges, heh.
You leave her out of this :heh:
[MOD NOTE: This post and resulting conversation thread are carried over from another thread.]
Oh, yeah, good idea (sorry for the off-topic).
So, by "Second Season" we are talking about the "Second First Season" or the "Real Second Season (TBA)"?
If the latter, I guess how many episodes will have. 14 or 28? I don't know if 4 novels (assuming that the new one will stop on the volume 6) are enough to 28 episodes, but 14 are too few. Well, maybe the Volume 11 wouldn't be as delayed as Volume 10.
Kaisos Erranon
2009-06-04, 21:10
Vol. 8 needs 4 episodes, Vol. 7 needs 7 episodes, and Vol. 9 needs about 3 or 4, probably 3. There's a LOT of internal monologue they could cut through.
So, heh, about 14 episodes for the rest of the novels released so far.
Speaking of new novel content... isn't the July Sneaker out soon?
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-06-04, 21:10
14 is probably a safe bet. Even if Volume 11 is released by then, I don't think there will be enough material for 28 episodes if they decided to keep it a mostly straight adaptation.
*e* I'm gonna have to disagree that Intrigues needs seven episodes, unless you're adding Melancholy of Mikuru into it.
Kaisos Erranon
2009-06-04, 21:12
14 is probably a safe bet. Even if Volume 11 is released by then, I don't think there will be enough material for 28 episodes if they decided to keep it a mostly straight adaptation.
That'd be a huge cliffhanger though.
Just like for the novel readers.
*e* I'm gonna have to disagree that Intrigues needs seven episodes, unless you're adding Melancholy of Mikuru into it.
Intrigues is very long for a light novel. And yes, I would be.
But if they use volume 9 they will have to use the (unreleased) Volume 10 right? If so, 14 are realy too few.
But the Volume 9 is realy that short?
EDIT:
Lets hope that they ar not going to end in a cliffhanger. I read somewhere that the Volume 10 was supposed to be realeased short after Volume 9, so the cliffhanger was not intentional
I agree that Volume 7 is realy that big.
Kaisos Erranon
2009-06-04, 21:26
But if they use volume 9 they will have to use the (unreleased) Volume 10 right? If so, 14 are realy too few.
But the Volume 9 is realy that short?
Vol. 9 is three chapters and this ridiculously massive prologue.
Given it's still about the length of a normal book (even if there is little actual content), I'd suspect that one reason the two books were split up was due to length...
I may be underestimating/misremembering the amount of real content in Vol. 9, but I remember a lot of internal monologue. Like, more than usual.
Which is why it could fit into about 3 episodes.
Hmm. Assuming Vol. 10 is about 6-7 episodes in length and Vol. 11 is another short story book, they could definitely make another 28-episode season out of Vols. 7-11.
The real content in Vol. 9 is realy small, but it is probably because it has too much conversation and the estory split.
The prologue is realy huge, but is hard to split in 2 episodes because it is basically a big conversation between Itsuki and Kyon. However, since most is a narration of a narration, maybe would be easy to cut.
If we follow the 3 episodes would be like this right?:
Dissociation Part I - Prologue
Dissociation Part II - Chapter 1 and 2
Dissociation Part III - Chapter 2 and 3
I think that chapter 3 deserve a full episode. But I guess that Astonishment Part I could include chapter 3. Is the same estory after all.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-06-04, 22:41
Volume 9(and by association, 10) will be a very tricky story to adapt, simply because of the branched time line. I honestly don't see the alpha and beta stories being featured in the same episodes, unless they decide to put alpha in the first half with beta taking up the second.
Kaisos Erranon
2009-06-04, 22:43
Volume 9(and by association, 10) will be a very tricky story to adapt, simply because of the branched time line. I honestly don't see the alpha and beta stories being featured in the same episodes, unless they decide to put alpha in the first half with beta taking up the second.
That's what I'd do.
Or switch on and off constantly. For mindfuck reasons.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-06-04, 22:44
Well that would be more true to the novels... but how would the transitioning work?
Kaisos Erranon
2009-06-04, 22:52
Well that would be more true to the novels... but how would the transitioning work?
Fade (or jarring cut) to a black screen. Display a big white "α". Or "β", as the case may be. Cut to new scene.
quigonkenny
2009-06-05, 03:02
Fade (or jarring cut) to a black screen. Display a big white "α". Or "β", as the case may be. Cut to new scene.
My suggestion, have them each use obviously different directorial styles, and an innocuous little (do they still call it a "watermark" for TV?) "α" or "β" in a corner (flipped corners depending on which) like a station identifier. But it really doesn't have to be all that overt. Subtle is good. If those Wachowski hacks were able to successfully differentiate between the real world and the Matrix with just a slight green filter, the guys at KyoAni should have no problem keeping the α- and β-verses subtly distinct.
As for the "True" Second Season, I'm thinking if it's 26/28 episodes, then Volume 11 will be the place to end it. I've looked over Volume 9 again, and it's a solid 5 episodes, especially considering KyoAni is in no way going to pass up the opportunity to dedicate a considerable portion of the first episode toward the "Revenge of Nagato Yuki" trailer (and well they should). With the dealings with the Setokaicho and Kimidori, I wouldn't be surprised to see the first episode end before we even really get into the Sasaki flashback portion of the Prologue. End the second episode on a chilling note with the reintroduction out of nowhere of Kyoko, and end the third somewhere near the beginning of Chapter 2 (the start of the split) and the fourth episode near the end of Chapter 2/beginning of Chapter 3 (Suou versus Kimidori or alpha!naming of Canopy Domain), and you've got five episodes. It may only be three chapters and a prologue, but they are all huge chapters. Assuming Volume 10 is of similar length (I think it'll have to be just to satisfactorily resolve Volume 9), that makes about 21 episodes, as shown below:
1. Melancholy of Asahina Mikuru
2. Intrigues I
3. Intrigues II
4. Intrigues III
5. Intrigues IV
6. Intrigues V
7. Intrigues VI
8. Editor in Chief I
9. Editor in Chief II
10. Wandering Shadow I
11. Wandering Shadow II
12. Dissociation I
13. Dissociation II
14. Dissociation III
15. Dissociation IV
16. Dissociation V
17. Astonishment I
18. Astonishment II
19. Astonishment III
20. Astonishment IV
21. Astonishment V
That gives us 5-7 episodes to end the season. Just about perfect for a complete volume, even if it's made up of shorter stories, and even gives us space for another anime-original, if needed.
quigonkenny
2009-06-05, 03:07
(What's more, Kimidori might be even younger.)
For that matter, Kyon IS a pedo, as we will discover if and when any REAL second season emerges, heh.
"But officer, she looks a good 4-5 years older than that..."
Solachinx
2009-06-05, 03:13
Melancholy prologue mentions 1999. Unless that was just something thrown into both BT and Strato's translation of it. (Still need to pick up the official trans)
That was only to mention how nothing had happened. Kyon would've been around 5 or 6 when Y2K (what Kyon was referring to) would've supposedly happened, which was when Kyon started his whole "it's all pointless" speil.
Also, IMO, the XP thing is just a result of writing something years in advance ;)
baltakatei
2009-06-05, 04:40
As for these discrepancies, why don't we just bring sliders/alternate dimensions into account and say this: All the bits of Haruhi-related material we're receiving is a random sample from a variety of parallel dimensions that had slightly different calendars, solar cycles, gravitational constants, underage drinking laws, etc.
It's like reverse "Really 500 years old"
Volume 9(and by association, 10) will be a very tricky story to adapt, simply because of the branched time line. I honestly don't see the alpha and beta stories being featured in the same episodes, unless they decide to put alpha in the first half with beta taking up the second.
I'm leaning towards split the 16:9 screen into 2 x (8:9) and show the time divergence side by side, so that should there be a merger/sliding/plane-puncturing activity, the audience would go "Ah" instead of "Eh". As I recall in vol.9 there aren't that many significant "concurrent" activities between the alpha & beta, so the audience can focus on the dramatic development on one pane and have something cute/extraneous going on the other. Could work.
[MOD NOTE: This post was merged from another thread.]
And now this thread is talking about a potential third season...
S2 is only 14 eps... and we may get another original episode. They very likely aren't going past vol 6 (if they even finish that).
You shoud read the thead before post. The "new" season is not oficially called "second season". Is still the First Season, but new episodes fiting on the middle.
The "Second Season" was cancelled some time ago. Insted, they did a "Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu new animation", the current season.
My suggestion, have them each use obviously different directorial styles, and an innocuous little (do they still call it a "watermark" for TV?) "α" or "β" in a corner (flipped corners depending on which) like a station identifier. But it really doesn't have to be all that overt. Subtle is good. If those Wachowski hacks were able to successfully differentiate between the real world and the Matrix with just a slight green filter, the guys at KyoAni should have no problem keeping the α- and β-verses subtly distinct.
As for the "True" Second Season, I'm thinking if it's 26/28 episodes, then Volume 11 will be the place to end it. I've looked over Volume 9 again, and it's a solid 5 episodes, especially considering KyoAni is in no way going to pass up the opportunity to dedicate a considerable portion of the first episode toward the "Revenge of Nagato Yuki" trailer (and well they should). With the dealings with the Setokaicho and Kimidori, I wouldn't be surprised to see the first episode end before we even really get into the Sasaki flashback portion of the Prologue. End the second episode on a chilling note with the reintroduction out of nowhere of Kyoko, and end the third somewhere near the beginning of Chapter 2 (the start of the split) and the fourth episode near the end of Chapter 2/beginning of Chapter 3 (Suou versus Kimidori or alpha!naming of Canopy Domain), and you've got five episodes. It may only be three chapters and a prologue, but they are all huge chapters. Assuming Volume 10 is of similar length (I think it'll have to be just to satisfactorily resolve Volume 9), that makes about 21 episodes, as shown below:
That gives us 5-7 episodes to end the season. Just about perfect for a complete volume, even if it's made up of shorter stories, and even gives us space for another anime-original, if needed.
A subtle "α" and "β" would be nice. I guess how many time will be need to anime-only viewers get what is going on.
I agree that only 3 episodes may be too few. But 5 is too much. I think that the "Revenge of Nagato Yuki" trailer would fit better as a advertisement. And a video on You-Tube. Of course, they could do a episode showing the Hanami and the filming on Tsuruya's House.
Again, sorry my poor english
How? They'd have to contact her and I'm pretty sure there's rules against going into the future unless they know that they went into the future.
Why not just send back someone else?
Mikuru(big)'s group wouldn't be doing the contacting. She would be sent back by a group further in the future than they. Remember, different temporal versions of people/groups can have different knowledge and objectives. If Mikuru(big) and her temporal associates knew something had to be done, there wouldn't be a reason to send back another agent (language was really failing me in that sentence, hope I got the point across).
And they wouldn't send someone else because if Kyon didn't drool over the new agent, there would be a chance he'd realize the time travelers shouldn't be trusted.
What, and miss out on the delicious, delicious irony in having Mikuru(big) being knocked out and Mikuru(MILF) showing up to tell Kyon something that he needs to remember not to tell Mikuru(big), only to be knocked unconscious as she leaves and then Mikura(obaachan) waddles up with her walker and tells Kyon something else he needs to remember not to tell either of the other Mikurus...?
This. This is exactly what I was thinking. Of course, Mikuru(MILF) would show him her mole to prove her identity. And then when she showed up, Mikuru(obaachan) would try to do the same, leading to the following exchange:
Mikuru(obaachan): Here, Kyon-kun, I'll prove it's really me. *Reaches to open her shirt.*
Kyon: *Grabs Mikuru(obaachan)'s hand* Not necessary, I believe you.
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-06-05, 16:26
... oh the mental scarring Kyon would get... I'm liking that idea more and more :p
Future beauty technology and Mikuru(obaachan)....120 and she's just a grey haired Key type MILF+....
Kaisos Erranon
2009-06-05, 18:41
Future beauty technology and Mikuru(obaachan)....120 and she's just a grey haired Key type MILF+....
GILF. You mean GILF.
GILF is only if her children have children, She could be a GGILF if those children have had children by the time she's 120, a factor that cannot be deturmined, hense MILF+.
quigonkenny
2009-06-05, 23:03
Despite what they technically stand for, the -ILF terms have nothing to do with whether there is actual childbirth involved. It's strictly age-related.
And the correct term is "GMILF". Don't any of you people watch Metalocalypse? ^_^
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-06-05, 23:28
And the correct term is "GMILF". Don't any of you people watch Metalocalypse? ^_^
I've been waiting for someone to make that reference :heh:
Solachinx
2009-06-11, 16:27
Let us speak of how they might do the
scene in Sigh when Tsuruya drugs Mikuru and Kyon's about to beat the hell out of Haruhi.
We stil need to use spoiler tags? There are muchu more spolier on this tread.
Anyway,I think that they will skip the drinking part. It is not the worse thing that Haruhi did, so isn't necessary for Kyon being mad
Solachinx
2009-06-11, 16:44
We stil need to use spoiler tags? There are muchu more spolier on this tread.
Anyway,I think that they will skip the drinking part. It is not the worse thing that Haruhi did, so isn't necessary for Kyon being mad
I know, but I just want to play it safe since a lot of my posts got deleted today
Yeah, but couldn't they replace the alcohol with a sleeping pill or something similar to that effect?
I understand. It was almost a page that we lost wasn't it?
Yeah, I guess they could. But how is this better?
Solachinx
2009-06-11, 17:07
I understand. It was almost a page that we lost wasn't it?
Yeah, I guess they could. But how is this better?
Because it would be better than just saying "Oh, looky there, she fell asleep on accident" and it would fit in with episode 00 (where she wasn't acting drunk, but was asleep)
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-06-11, 17:12
Pretty sure she was "asleep" in the novel version of the movie, as well...
*e*
Then again, there's a lot of differences between the filming and the film. Funny, that.
Yeah, but how exactly is being druged better then being drunk? If they are going to drug her so they could drunk her too. Also she never sleeps on the novel. Actually the didn't even filmed the scene, it was probably done after.
Solachinx
2009-06-11, 17:17
Pretty sure she was "asleep" in the novel version of the movie, as well...
*e*
Then again, there's a lot of differences between the filming and the film. Funny, that.
I thought she was acting typical drunk...
"It's already criminal enough to bring a girl, who has been stunned senseless after nearly drowning, to his own room while she's still unconscious. To give her a bath would be beyond criminal, it would be a crime of the most primitive nature. The person who did this...... No, the bastard Itsuki who did such a despicable act ought to be sliced into many pieces alive, and his family would get no compensation for that either. It's his fault for actually doing what every guy in the school wants to do instead.
Itsuki now placed Mikuru on a mattress which wasn't there before, and then knelt beside her. He crossed his arms and went into deep thought. Wanna bet? I bet that his mind is probably very empty right now.
Seeing how he has obediently followed orders from afar, he now moved closer to Mikuru's face. If he dares move one centimeter closer, then someone who isn't supposed to appear in the movie would break the fourth wall and beat the crap out of Koizumi...... I mean the guy who plays Itsuki. Fortunately, he was stopped by someone whose appearance in this scene isn't that surprising."
So, yeah, she was sleeping. So the must have filmed the scene after the fight (and Mikuru wasn't drunk at time)
Solachinx
2009-06-11, 17:42
"It's already criminal enough to bring a girl, who has been stunned senseless after nearly drowning, to his own room while she's still unconscious. To give her a bath would be beyond criminal, it would be a crime of the most primitive nature. The person who did this...... No, the bastard Itsuki who did such a despicable act ought to be sliced into many pieces alive, and his family would get no compensation for that either. It's his fault for actually doing what every guy in the school wants to do instead.
Itsuki now placed Mikuru on a mattress which wasn't there before, and then knelt beside her. He crossed his arms and went into deep thought. Wanna bet? I bet that his mind is probably very empty right now.
Seeing how he has obediently followed orders from afar, he now moved closer to Mikuru's face. If he dares move one centimeter closer, then someone who isn't supposed to appear in the movie would break the fourth wall and beat the crap out of Koizumi...... I mean the guy who plays Itsuki. Fortunately, he was stopped by someone whose appearance in this scene isn't that surprising."
So, yeah, she was sleeping. So the must have filmed the scene after the fight (and Mikuru wasn't drunk at time)
OK, then how about a narcotic for the behind the scenes bit
Again, what makes drugs better then alcohol? Underage drinking is bad, underage druging is worse
Solachinx
2009-06-11, 17:53
Again, what makes drugs better then alcohol? Underage drinking is bad, underage druging is worse
Is it illegal in Japan (just wondering)
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