View Full Version : Higurashi Episode 4 Discussion / Poll
Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 4.
Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for RAWs.
Try to keep spoilers from the Game or Manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Game / Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.
Spoiler Tag Usage
Using Spoiler Tags is easy. Using this...
Don't forget to use the spoiler title
....will get you this...
Don't forget to use the spoiler title
ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni
Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) before you ask questions!!!
Feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting.
I am designating Sushi-Y and Freakman to lead the discussion in the correct path without spoilers as they have played the game in advance. I put confidence in them that they will recognize a member has spilled the beans too far if any other members has begun to play the game.
SPOILERS FAR ADVANCED THAN THE CURRENT AIRED ANIME EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS INCLUDES THOSE IN SPOILER TAGS!!!. People tend to peek at spoiler tags; especially when they do not know such tag is meant for the episode, only to find it spilling the beans too far advanced in the game storyline.
Srin Tuar
2006-04-25, 15:06
After looking at the pictures at 2chan, I'm dying to see Episode 4!!
Do you not watch the episodes live?
Im curious where in the world you are located at the moment.
Do you have to wait for some generous soul to upload raws like most of us ?
Freakman
2006-04-25, 15:13
The episode only airs on Tuesdays in Kansai, not in all of Japan. And since Kj doesn't live in Kansai, he doesn't have access to that channel. He thus has to wait for Wednesday when it airs where he lives.
Just finished to watch episode 4, and I wonder if it'll make much sense to the first time viewers.
It concludes Onikakushi hen for better or for worse.
All in all I think it's a pretty good adaptation, even it seems to me
they use too much distorted effects on Keiichi's eyes, but then I guess that's what happens to you when you're driven into madness by something.
Do you have to wait for some generous soul to upload raws like most of us ?
Some of us use Winny.
Do you not watch the episodes live?
Im curious where in the world you are located at the moment.
Do you have to wait for some generous soul to upload raws like most of us ?
"Higurashi no Naku Koroni" is one of those weird ones where they air in the Kansai region first before the Kanto area (it's usually the other way around). Well, at least it's only a day late to be shown on Chiba TV where I get reception - I'm thankful that I don't live in Kanagawa where I'd have to wait until Saturday.
Just finished watching episode 4, and that's it for Onikakushi. Overall, it was tied up relatively nicely. Unfortunately, since the pacing was so fast, they were only able to lightly skim over most of the events. Even if the first-time viewers don't feel anything wrong with the pacing (since they don't have the original novel, which is far longer and more detailed, to compare with), I'm not even sure if they can form proper hypotheses or theories with these super-concentrated episodes.
Well, the general ideas have all been presented, so maybe that's good enough.
I'm disappointed that they cut short on Rena and Keiichi's pursuit scene through the woods (there wasn't even one, Keiichi just ran for about 5 seconds and bumped into those men in worker clothings, whereas in the game, Keiichi ran all the way out to the dam construction site while escaping Rena's broken laughter).
Another disappointment was the absence of portrayal of the bandages on Rena's fingers when she arrived at school in the morning, after Keiichi slammed the door on her hand the night before. Keiichi's thought to himself at the time ("don't feel sorry for her") left quite a large impression on me when I read it: Keiichi really feels bad for being mean to Rena, but his "survival beliefs" forced him to be cruel.
They did a good job with Rena's maniac laughter though, totally freaked me out. :upset:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/6216/ep400006eg.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ep400006eg.jpg)
The climax felt like it really could've used more portrayal of Keiichi's pain and sorrow for killing his best friends, but the original novel didn't really dwell on this either so I guess it's good enough.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/1708/ep400012hy.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ep400012hy.jpg)
ひどいよ、圭ちゃん．．．(・ω・`)
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7165/ep400022vp.th.jpg (http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ep400022vp.jpg)http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8494/ep400031bb.th.jpg (http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ep400031bb.jpg)
I'm telling you, that's not scary, that's sexy.
Kyousuke
2006-04-25, 23:21
kj, where did you get that banner in your sig? Are there more?
Just finished watching episode 4, and that's it for Onikakushi. Overall, it was tied up relatively nicely. Unfortunately, since the pacing was so fast, they were only able to lightly skim over most of the events. Even if the first-time viewers don't feel anything wrong with the pacing (since they don't have the original novel, which is far longer and more detailed, to compare with), I'm not even sure if they can form proper hypotheses or theories with these super-concentrated episodes.
Well, the general ideas have all been presented, so maybe that's good enough.
Finished watching ep 4. I didn't play the game so i'm not sure how the pacing was in it but I too felt that the pacing seemed abit rushed for this ep and it got quite confusing for me to comprehend what was happening towards the end.
Yep Rena's laughter was totally freaky though I think Keiichi in 'survival belief' mode freaked me out more....
Eleutheria
2006-04-26, 08:17
Watched episode 4.
Don't tell me this is going to be like Akira Kurosawa's Rashomon, where each chapter is the same thing told from a different viewpoint, and you get more and more confused.
The objective is for you (the viewer) to figure out what the heck is going on. Just when you think you got it, you are bitch slapped in the face for being so wrong.
After watching episode 4, it is indeed what I am feeling right now.:heh: Anyway, I am forming another hypothesis after watching the preview of the next episode:
In the previous episode, I got the impression that Keiichi was under constant surveillance from his classmates (e.g. Mion/Rena even knew he had lunch with the policeman when they should be at shool at that moment).
Seeing Mion dressed as a waitress of that resturant in the preview made me think that she may simply be informed of such event by a fellow colleague. Afterall, as mentioned above, Keiichi is fairly well-known.
Definitely looking forward to the new twists next week.
Xellos-_^
2006-04-26, 11:43
Just finish watching Ep4 :upset:
damn you Keiichi, you don't do that to cute girls :frustrated: Even if they are trying to kill you. Now i am going to be depress for th whole day
Ooh. Nakahara Mai's maniacal laughter as Rena was great in this episode!! Too bad there wasn't the laughter/usoda! scenes which creeped the hell out of me in the original game, but that scene alone pulled it off rather well.
Overall, I think they did Onikakushi quite well for the time frame. It could've used a bit more detail that they had in the game, but for the casual viewer, 4 episodes per chapter sounds about right. Now we move onto Watanagashi, which gets even creepier (I hope they can pull the "chamber" scene well).
By the way, I kind of laid the basis of the Higurashi no Naku Koro ni wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni), so anyone can feel free to update that as you may see it fit. Maybe character infos?
I'm just came to a thin line to about starting to watch Higurashi no Naku Koroni. It's just plainly humongous the incredible amount of fandom that the game garnered in its native Japan, and now the expectations for the anime are paying off as a snowball rolling down the mountain side.
I downloaded the sub today at very late, nightly hours but could not bring myself to watch due to lack of sleep downloading other stuff. Nonetheless, I'm ready to watch the first episode tonight in the safe comfortability of my room. Of course, I will turn off the lights to create the gloomy atmosphere, while watching the episode on my laptop and laid down on my bed at the same time.
To kj1980,
I have read every single entry throughout the entire thread, as well read thorough your Wikipedia entry for the game, but do not worry about me being spoiled. I do not feel spoiled with pics or posts, until I see the real thing of the episode by myself or at least a great deal of it.
Unfortunately, I'm one of that rare 1% of people who had never EVER played the game nor see what looks like. In fact, I never knew what were eroge until four months ago and thanks to one of your previous threads.
Though I must admit that I have doubts about choosing whether I want or not to watch this title, the anime called at first my attention not because of the 'hype' that is quickly building up but because of two things:
Number ONE.
Higurashi no Naku Koroni
In simple words, there is something about the long title that just grasped my eyes.
NUMBER TWO.
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2029/cutevil032qi.th.jpg (http://img195.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cutevil032qi.jpg)
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5162/cutevil067yt.th.jpg (http://img195.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cutevil067yt.jpg)
Yep. Oyashiro-Rena points me out that the anime screams REDRUM REDRUM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shining_%28film%29) to me.
Can you imagine how many (only) psycho Rena pics I have been collecting from the futaba boards and saving them to my HD?
She has just hooked me up that I cannot cast her away from my head. God, something must be wrong with my brain like if I have been contaminated or poisoned. Am I ill? or is it perfectly normal?
The more I see her pics the more I driven off the edge to begin immediately the anime, but I'm afraid of doing so because it would seriously require me to crack my head open to come with an array of hundreds of theories and hypothesis regarding the mystery, once I start watching the anime.
Not that I complaining about, but I think that either nobody at this thread would take me seriously or whatever I start theorizing would have been already posted previously or been discussed over and over by someone else.
My second fear is if I would had access to the game, I believe I will be making a mistake by watching the anime first. More like the game is needed first to grasp and cover a lot of terrain for the viewer to know what's in store for.
I cannot guarantee anything, but I'll make sure to catch up with the episodes.
For a few last words, would you recommend me to watch the anime?, would it be a mind blowing experience?, is it really that shocking as other viewers commented? In short, once I begin there's no turning back, right?
There's only two hours before I'm done with office work, then leaving for home.
Desesperation is eating me from within.
Srin Tuar
2006-04-26, 19:17
Thanks for all the replies about airing times and regions. I understand now :) :)
okay, episode 4
Well, I dont get it.
It seems that keiichi was wrong to be such a pussy. The fact that he was screaming
like a girl while crushing rena's hand made me lose all respect for him. Also his willingness to tell everything to the cop. Also his unwillingness to ask a simple question.
Maybe he was just delusional, and his own fear made him do crazy things.
OTOH, if this was all his delusions, why would rena ever want to be around him again.
I think after getting her hand crushed, you'd think she'd avoid him.
Unless all the characters were under some sort of strange psychotic effect, the plot
doesnt all tie together. Maybe some bad mushrooms grow in the area.
If the two girls were trying to give him some sort of shot, you would think he could
overpower rena at least, and knock the syringe away. I dont see the jump from
being afraid of a shot to beating them both to death. especially not girls, who he could
probably subdue without causing any permanent damage.
Oh well. Maybe the game was better, but I dont understand this show at all.
Well, I dont get it.
That's the whole point. It's obvious you don't get it. Less than 1% did when they first played Onikakushi.
Now, you have to figure out what the heck is going on. More clues and hints are to be revealed in later episodes (and chapters), and you have to connect the dots. By the time it gets to Tsumihoroboshi, you'll have a larger scope of things on what Keiichi was under, why he reacted that way, and the reason why he took those actions.
That's the whole point. It's obvious you don't get it. Less than 1% did when they first played Onikakushi.
Now, you have to figure out what the heck is going on. More clues and hints are to be revealed in later episodes (and chapters), and you have to connect the dots. By the time it gets to Tsumihoroboshi, you'll have a larger scope of things on what Keiichi was under, why he reacted that way, and the reason why he took those actions.
Technically, that 1% (that 1 person out of 100 fan-mails) only got the truth about Onikakushi. The real, overall truth, on the other hand... *looks at Minagoroshi*...well, I can only say it was a good marketing scheme. :heh:
I will agree, though, that a lot of the fun of this series comes from following the story through the question chapters (Onikakushi, Watanagashi, Tatarigoroshi) and then putting together/forming your own theories and beliefs about the events. There's also a different sense of satisfaction that comes from reading the "answer" chapters (Meakashi, Tsumihoroboshi), where your doubts and questions from the question chapters are finally laid to rest, and at the same time, learning new revelations about these past chapters. As an example, I believe that many first-time viewers probably consider Onikakushi as nothing but a horror mystery right now. But by the time Tsumihoroboshi is over, not only will they realize what Onikakushi was all about, they'll also realize what a tragedy it has been.
That's the hook of this series, but at the same time, a weak point as well. "Things are not as they seem". Unexpected is probably what describes this series best.
Of course, none of this really matters for the first-time viewers, since this series is only beginning for them. I think the most important thing is to first enjoy the story for what it is, theories and hypotheses should only come second.
My second fear is if I would had access to the game, I believe I will be making a mistake by watching the anime first. More like the game is needed first to grasp and cover a lot of terrain for the viewer to know what's in store for.
That depends on what you mean by "mistake". If you want to enjoy the anime to the fullest, I wouldn't play the games. On the other hand, if you want to enjoy the games to the fullest, I wouldn't watch the anime either. Higurashi is a suspense horror story, so knowing what's coming detracts from the experience some. But don't worry, you don't "need the game" to grasp what's going on in the anime. It's true that the game is far more detailed (about the various incidents) and informative (about the situation, including the main character's (Keiichi's) thoughts), but the anime will certainly make itself understandable even for the first-timers.
If you're interested, you can try playing the game after the anime ends and see what it skipped out on. Minagoroshi-hen (the latest (7th) game chapter), which contains the real "truth", doesn't fall under the anime's coverage either, so there's another incentive.
I watched episode 4 raw and I was pretty surprised that Keiichi really did what he did. I did sort of feel sorry for the girls, at least their innocent sides. :( Especially Rena's hand scene. But it makes me wonder if Mion and Rena will be revived for the next chapter? It wouldn't make sense if they died that quickly...
Seeing Rena's crazy expressions was actually pretty fun. For some reason, I love it when characters go over the edge. And the VA's other character also went over the edge in a similar way I guess: Mai from My HiME. :heh:
*Push Psycho Kaede aside*
Psycho Rena is my new favourite! :D
*get stabbed by Psycho Kaede's boxcutter*
Keiichi's last scenes in ep. 4 were very difficult to watch.
I really don't feel sympathy for the girls at all..
If someone is trying to kill me, I would definitely do my very best to hurt them and not feel any pity for them at all. Now I do admit that playing Lil' Slugger just for an injection was a little too much. But they should have known better since he was practicing with a baseball bat earlier. Personally, I would have bought more than 1 person with me if I was going to inject a healthy male against his wishes.
I thought he clawed out his throat and that was the cause of the blood in the phone booth.
IMO if the ep reviews and the praises directed at the original game haven't got you guys interested enough to check out the show, I think the best way to convince yourself would be to watch the anime and decide for yourself. Ep 4 seems like a good place to decide, since it's the end of a chapter. If I'm not wrong, the next ep is a new game chapter with the story supposedly retold in a different angel and focus. Well maybe this quote from kj's wiki page can help fan some more interest in physics223.
This doujin game became immensely popular in Japan, with over 100,000 copies being sold - a feat which has not been surpassed done since TYPE-MOON's Tsukihime.
Yeah I know you love Tsukihime, since you are somewhat vocal about it. :heh: Anyway, I just watched ep 4. This is the most creepy one yet.
1. I'm surprised that Rena has the strength to hold down Keiichi, but anyway I suspect the liquid which Mion injected into Keiichi could be a drug which causes hallucination. I think he probably ran pretty far for a long time before he stopped to call Oishi which by then the drug would have heavily affected his mind. That could be why he was seeing someone when he seems to be alone (though I can't rule out any camera trick at the moment). The way he talked also sounded like he was imagining someone strangling him or something was suffocating him in his throat, so he was clawing at his own throat to remove the hold or he was going to rip out that thing stuck in his throat (WTF? thought)
2. I think the doctor who treated Keiichi in ep 3 was with those men in green caps and overall. So he is the "kantoku"? Damn kantoku has a few meanings, I thought Rena and Mion were scaring Keiichi by refering to the one that got dismembered in the dam incident. You know that kantoku? Yeah he's going to come back from the dead (Damn it scared me too :eyespin:) Anyway, I wonder why was he there? Does he have anything to do with the deaths? Well doctors and drugs (thesis 1) are good match, so are nurses and drugs, but perhaps he is just there for the simple reason of treating Keiichi's injuries, wait time alibi? Hmm...
3. Like it wasn't obvious, I think Keiichi's house was raided by the green men after he ran through the back door, hence the note was torn into two with the middle part lost. I compared the note in Oishi's portfolio with the one full shot of it in ep 3 when Keiichi just finish writing it. Guess what? What Keiichi supposedly wrote into the note in this ep was already there the first time he finish writing it in ep 3. Studio Deen's mistake or a weird jump in time sequence? Anyway someone got to fill me in on what's written on the part which was lost as I can't read it, but I think it's a giant spoiler. *conflicts* :heh:
4. Oishi was too good. I mean how did he figured out where Keiichi was calling from. I didn't see him press any button for the super mainframe computer to start tracing the call, like hell one of those was available to a rural poilice station in the 80's. Anyway, maybe he heard something through the phone which he recognized could only be from that phone booth, but I didn't hear any sound effects which he could have picked up. And what's with the camera rocking on certain parts when he was on the phone with Keiichi.
Oh crap.. I just started watching ep 4 while eating sushi... then all of a sudden I bit on a piece of cartiledge! For a moment I thought it was a needle! >_<
4.) Good atmosphere for a suspense / mystery anime. Not exactly horror as in horrifying, but the vibes fit perfectly. OP / ED are just topnotch.
This is probably a little off topic, but I just want to add that your impression of the "atmospheres" of each arc (game chapter) can change greatly once you learn more about the overall story.
Just like the game, Higurashi is probably one of the best example for animes that you should rewatch everytime you learn something new in the newest arc (chapter): these new revelations will help you notice things in the earlier arcs (chapters) that you wouldn't have noticed before, and behaviours + reactions from characters that were "confusing" or "made no sense" before will all begin to make sense to you, changing the overall atmosphere of the story significantly. (An example would be my comment before about Onikakushi being a "tragedy" rather than a "suspense horror")
Now, to be off-topic again, what best portrayed the atmosphere of Onikakushi-hen for me would be the doujin MAD video "Nakanai Kimi to Nageki no Sekai".
なかない君と嘆きの世界 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H46vN313X2A)
The melancholiness of the song (which was created specifically for this MAD) described this arc (chapter) best for me.
EDIT: Episode 5 images, fresh from the... oven(?)!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi09.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi10.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi11.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi12.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi14.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi15.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi16.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi18.jpg
According to the official site's preview, episode 5 will run through the toy shop tournament,
the "doll" event,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/05-1.jpgΣ (゜д ゜；)
all the way up to the meeting between Keiichi and "Shion".
詩音かわいいよ詩音。^^
あとマゾ。
physics223
2006-04-28, 20:49
This be some scary shit, mon.
Behind those kids are murderers ... damn ... cool.
solwyvern
2006-04-28, 21:05
What is the best sub so far? Subs by wind seem to be lacking.
Anyone seen Ayu and Triads? comparison check please...
physics223
2006-04-28, 21:28
Well, sol, I trust Ayu ... remember Traumend? It's pretty good, too.
SpaceDrake
2006-04-28, 21:31
Triad by far. Theirs seems to be the most careful translation. However, they're also the latest group to get started on the translation, so they're only up to Ep.2. Don't feel bad using WIND, they're decent and also seemingly the fastest.
Hmm, i've been a long time lurker on these forums and this is honestly the first thread and anime that's made me want to participate in speculation here - The anime is incredible! the way its been written and directed, fantastic, keeps me on the edge of my seat and constantly guessing as to whats going on. I've had eps one and two on my hard drive for a while, and watched them today - I immediately got hooked and got ep three and raw ep four.
For anyone wondering if they should bother watching this anime, if you're the kind of person who enjoys a mysterious and well written plot, look no further.
As for my speculation:
It seemed pretty clear to me that a good portion, at least, of what happened happened in keiichi's head. There are too many clues to this effect, although of course I could be misinterpreting them. At the start of the anime, I think he was perfectly sane. Something made him go insane, and I think thats the real mystery here.
For starters, lets look at rena's 'higurashi-mode'. I think a lot of these events were massively exaggerated by the state of keiichi's mind, and some of them possibly didn't take place at all - the ones in eps three and four with keiichi walking back alone from school are prime suspects for being total hallucinations, with nobody else around to question who he's talking to etc.
The shot and the forced injection that everyone seems to be focusing on, while i think is important, i dont think its the cause of keiichi's paranoid delusions. He was having paranoid delusions prior to his shot in episode 3, although they did get a lot worse after the shot, it does show that at best it just accelerated his fall into insanity. The forced injection of course is immediately followed by his murder of rena and mion, but at that point he had pretty much convinced himself they were out to kill him - they could have injected him with water and he still would have done what he did.
But what really made me think that it was mostly delusions are the two 'attempts' on his life - the needle and the hit and run guy. Despite actually starting to chew, there was no blood. In addition, why did his parents not ask why he threw them on the walls etc? It could be that there was never any visit from rena and mion at all - he was alone again so prime delusion time.
The second attempts, the hit and run. That was really obviously not a serious attempt at his life - if it was, he would have been hit. From the way the anime was drawn it did look like it wasn't going to hit him anyway. The drivers reaction etc was probably all in keiichi's head.
I also don't think that this anime will have too much of a supernatural element to it. I just don't think such a cop out matches the quality of the writing i've seen so far. We shall see.
So, as i said earlier, I think the biggest mystery isn't 'whodunit' but rather, why did keiichi go insane? My personal thoughts is, that its something physical that caused it. During keiichi's final call with the police guy, he sounded like something was very wrong with his throat (and what he was saying didn't make much sense, seems that he was having some pretty bad delusions at that point). In the end, keiichi killed himself by digging his fingers into his neck/throat, just like the photo guy (i'm terrible at remembering names...). If its just straight serial murder, how did two people die the same odd self-inflicted way? Maybe this was the final effect of whatever was causing his delusions? there are many drugs and infections/parasites that cause intense paranoid delusions. Perhaps it was the shot the doctor gave him that caused all this, but as i said earlier thats unlikely as it started before he had the shot.
Maybe then, its some kind of infection or disease? Maybe those people that showed up were some kind of government agency maintaining some kind of secret quarantine? The biggest problem with this theory is that they didn't do a very good job of it - they let keiichi get infected and allowed rena to leave the village. Clearly either rena wasn't a carrier, or its something that isnt transmittable from human to human, which raises the question of how keiichi got infected.
My final theory is related primarily to the guys in green. Maybe its a government test of a new biological/chemical weapon? I said that the shot coming after the start of his delusions makes this unlikely, but if the government is involved far more things become possible. Lacing the villages water supply with the drug? Contaminating food? Maybe the shot he got was a booster or something else to do with the experiment? Lots of questions on this theory.
So, as to what caused keiichi's insanity, i'm leaning towards a drug/infection explanation. Its possible he was just the type of person at risk from developing paranoid delusions and what the police guy told him triggered it, but i think that's too boring an explanation to make a full anime series about :heh:. It's also possible theres a supernatural explanation for it, but i really hope that isn't the case.
As far as burning questions goes, these are what i have:
- What caused keiichi's insanity?
- If one person dies, and one goes missing every year on the same day, why did Keiichi etc's deaths come out of this cycle?
- Who are those guys in green?
- How are the other members of the club involved? There was minor involvement of Mion, but i have a feeling the other members may be just as important, if not more important to solving the bigger mystery (otherwise why are they there? to fill the required loli slots? :heh:)
Lots of speculation here, not very well written - its very 'stream of consciousness' stuff - i'd be quite surprised if anyone actually reads all of it :D.
Great series so far, I hope the quality keeps up.
Thewanderer
2006-04-29, 09:47
I watched the raw of ep4 and I gotta say, I was enthused about the show till then.
So the 3 main characters die and the universe is reset for ep5? I despise resets on every other show, so HnNKn will have to do a lot to make up for it. Meh, I was starting to like Keiichi till he went psycho too.
Don't get me wrong, it's a great anime and all and I will keep watching it... but all the fun just got cut short for me is all:upset:
On a side note: Rena and Mion = <3
It seemed pretty clear to me that a good portion, at least, of what happened happened in keiichi's head. There are too many clues to this effect, although of course I could be misinterpreting them. At the start of the anime, I think he was perfectly sane. Something made him go insane, and I think thats the real mystery here.
For starters, lets look at rena's 'higurashi-mode'. I think a lot of these events were massively exaggerated by the state of keiichi's mind, and some of them possibly didn't take place at all - the ones in eps three and four with keiichi walking back alone from school are prime suspects for being total hallucinations, with nobody else around to question who he's talking to etc.
The shot and the forced injection that everyone seems to be focusing on, while i think is important, i dont think its the cause of keiichi's paranoid delusions. He was having paranoid delusions prior to his shot in episode 3, although they did get a lot worse after the shot, it does show that at best it just accelerated his fall into insanity. The forced injection of course is immediately followed by his murder of rena and mion, but at that point he had pretty much convinced himself they were out to kill him - they could have injected him with water and he still would have done what he did.
But what really made me think that it was mostly delusions are the two 'attempts' on his life - the needle and the hit and run guy. Despite actually starting to chew, there was no blood. In addition, why did his parents not ask why he threw them on the walls etc? It could be that there was never any visit from rena and mion at all - he was alone again so prime delusion time.
The second attempts, the hit and run. That was really obviously not a serious attempt at his life - if it was, he would have been hit. From the way the anime was drawn it did look like it wasn't going to hit him anyway. The drivers reaction etc was probably all in keiichi's head.
I also don't think that this anime will have too much of a supernatural element to it. I just don't think such a cop out matches the quality of the writing i've seen so far. We shall see.
So, as i said earlier, I think the biggest mystery isn't 'whodunit' but rather, why did keiichi go insane? My personal thoughts is, that its something physical that caused it. During keiichi's final call with the police guy, he sounded like something was very wrong with his throat (and what he was saying didn't make much sense, seems that he was having some pretty bad delusions at that point). In the end, keiichi killed himself by digging his fingers into his neck/throat, just like the photo guy (i'm terrible at remembering names...). If its just straight serial murder, how did two people die the same odd self-inflicted way? Maybe this was the final effect of whatever was causing his delusions? there are many drugs and infections/parasites that cause intense paranoid delusions. Perhaps it was the shot the doctor gave him that caused all this, but as i said earlier thats unlikely as it started before he had the shot.
Maybe then, its some kind of infection or disease? Maybe those people that showed up were some kind of government agency maintaining some kind of secret quarantine? The biggest problem with this theory is that they didn't do a very good job of it - they let keiichi get infected and allowed rena to leave the village. Clearly either rena wasn't a carrier, or its something that isnt transmittable from human to human, which raises the question of how keiichi got infected.
My final theory is related primarily to the guys in green. Maybe its a government test of a new biological/chemical weapon? I said that the shot coming after the start of his delusions makes this unlikely, but if the government is involved far more things become possible. Lacing the villages water supply with the drug? Contaminating food? Maybe the shot he got was a booster or something else to do with the experiment? Lots of questions on this theory.
So, as to what caused keiichi's insanity, i'm leaning towards a drug/infection explanation. Its possible he was just the type of person at risk from developing paranoid delusions and what the police guy told him triggered it, but i think that's too boring an explanation to make a full anime series about :heh:. It's also possible theres a supernatural explanation for it, but i really hope that isn't the case.
As far as burning questions goes, these are what i have:
- What caused keiichi's insanity?
- If one person dies, and one goes missing every year on the same day, why did Keiichi etc's deaths come out of this cycle?
- Who are those guys in green?
- How are the other members of the club involved? There was minor involvement of Mion, but i have a feeling the other members may be just as important, if not more important to solving the bigger mystery (otherwise why are they there? to fill the required loli slots? :heh:)
Lots of speculation here, not very well written - its very 'stream of consciousness' stuff - i'd be quite surprised if anyone actually reads all of it :D.
Great series so far, I hope the quality keeps up.
All I can say is "wow." You figured this all by yourself? Without a doubt, I can say you are the first person to fall within the 20% range of closeness to the truth for Onikakushi.
Some parts to think about as you watch the following chapters:
1. The question is not "what caused Keiichi's insanity," but "what was the trigger point for Keiichi's insanity." This will become an important aspect in the future episodes.
2. One of the problems of the anime and the drama CD is the absence of TIPS from the original game. So, to help you in the quest, here is a TIP that you might find useful:
Oishi: "Is there any drugs that causes a person to commit suicide?"
Forensics Doctor: "Directly, no"
Oishi: "The way you say it seems like there is an indirect way, then"
FD: "I meant to say, there is a way to cause a psychological effect that triggers a person to commit suicide."
Oishi: "Hmm...that's even a more difficult way of saying it. Can you explain what 'causing a psychological effect that trigger's a person to commit suicide?"
FD: "Okay, let's take a person that has bipolar disorder. A person with bipolar disorder is most likely to commit suicide at the point where his or her mental state switches from depression to mania."
The main difference from bipolar disorder to an unipolar disorder is that the former has an active and energized state in addition that kicks in interchangeably with depression.
FD: "If a patient is in the depressed state, he or she does not have the mental will to commit suicide. On the other hand, if the patient is in the hyper-active state, he or she will also not commit suicide as they are living an active life.
Oishi: "That's interesting. A bipolar person won't commit suicide in both states, yet they are most likely to at the stage where they change from the depression state to energetic state?"
FD: "When a patient is in depression, he or she has suicidal tendencies in their minds. But, they have no will to carry out the suicide since they are in major depression. However, as soon as the transition to the energetic state begins to kick in, they start to become active once again..."
Oishi: "Oh, now I get it! They start to have the active will to carry out the suicide!"
FD: "That's exactly right. So that is why it is imperative to give patients anticonvulsants during this phase."
Oishi: "So was was Mr. Tomitake a bipolar patient?"
FD: "Bipolar suicidal tendencies involve more normal suicides like jumping off a building or hanging oneself, not like an withdrawal symptom of scratching one's throat. That's sounds like an illegal substance to me."
Oishi: "Yes, Mr. Tomitake's suicide was quite unusual. So some kind of substance was used for his death. Can you explain the first one...the one about the drug that can cause a psychological effect that triggers suicidal tendencies?"
FD: "Methamphetamines are known to cause symtoms very similar to bipolar disorder. These are known in the streets as crystal meth. Some barbiturates also show signs of psychotic hyperactivity, but this is less common. This one is more known for inducing sleep. "
Oishi: "Strangely, the coroner's report did not show any signs of substances.. Any other possibilities?"
FD: "If you scratch off illegal substances off the list, then all I can think of is a disease. One suspect in this case is Graves-Basedow Disease, whose hyperthyroidism is reported to cause effects similar to bipolar disorder. However, in the case of Graves-Basedow Disease, there are many visual signs in a patient. The deceased didn't have those symptoms so that scratches off this disease from the list."
Oishi: "Are there any ones that break out more suddenly? How can I say...like ones that matches the deceased suicide in a more unexpected and sudden manner?"
FD: "How about acute organic psychosis? To say it bluntly, a person's brain gets damaged and becomes psychotic. While this can be caused by side-effects of illegal substances, it can also happen when brain damage occurs due to tumors or direct damage to the cranial area."
Oishi: "So there is a possibility of inducing a person's psychosis without reliance of substances?"
FD: "You said the deceased was surrounded by several assailants, right? The deceased may have an adrenaline rush compounded by a severe strike to the cranial area which may have induced his psychotic abnormality."
Oishi: "Can you say that in more simpler terms?"
FD: "Kakakaka (a laughter from a more older person). I'm saying the man got hit in the head as he was fighting off his assailants and his mind got fucked up."
Oishi: "Hahaha! So what you're saying is that the assailant(s) didn't have any motive to kill him! All they wanted to do was extort some money off the guy, but they hit him on the wrong side of the head!"
Two fat middle-aged men laughs.
Oishi: "....of course that can't be the reason."
FD: "Ahem. Indeed. Whether by illegal substance or by psychological symptoms, the deceased body itself hold the key to the clue. How's that going along?"
Oishi: "Oh shit, it's this time already? I'd better get going or Kuma-chan (Oishi's partner) will start to get pissed off."
FD: "Okay. Take care! Have a nice year!"
Oishi: "You too. Have a nice year."
justsomeguy
2006-04-29, 16:35
Bron's ideas are pretty well developed. But I have some questions/criticisms, even taking into account that TIP:
* If it was some sort of government test spiking the air/water, why was only Keiichi affected? Why limit the test to once a year during the festival, having one person die and another go missing? Why bother leaving evidence behind, when the government can just have the victims disappear entirely?
* Some sort of drug inducing psychosis would make more sense than a natural psychological illness. But why would the toxicology report find no substances? Do they only test for known chemicals, or some kind of conspiracy is suppressing the results?
* Those guys in green. Knowing who they are would be a huge clue.
Thewanderer
2006-04-29, 16:46
Bron's ideas are pretty well developed. But I have some questions/criticisms, even taking into account that TIP:
* If it was some sort of government test spiking the air/water, why was only Keiichi affected? Why limit the test to once a year during the festival, having one person die and another go missing? Why bother leaving evidence behind, when the government can just have the victims disappear entirely?
* Some sort of drug inducing psychosis would make more sense than a natural psychological illness. But why would the toxicology report find no substances? Do they only test for known chemicals, or some kind of conspiracy is suppressing the results?
* Those guys in green. Knowing who they are would be a huge clue.
IT'S TEH CICADAS I TELLZ YA:heh:
Anyway, a couple theories of my own:
Theory #1-Look back in... I think episode 2 when the girls were whispering. I only remember one line. It was like "I wonder if I'm next" or something. I think that might point to eather something supernatural, or someone's out to get their families. The trouble is, it has nothing to do with Keiichi, unless he was unknowingly sent as a kamakazi to kill them then kill himself.
Theory #2-I think that the ppl that were killed at the annual thing are the real bad guys, trying to make the villiagers go insane. The 4 girls could be protectors of sorts, killing the bad guys off each year. The last one got a taste of his own medicine however, but not before he infected Keiichi. Dunno why they'd be so connected to the girls tho...
I know the theories may be a li'l farfetched, but they ARE different than anyone else's... anyone care to expand on them or tell me how full of shit I am?:p
If it was some sort of government test spiking the air/water, why was only Keiichi affected? Why limit the test to once a year during the festival, having one person die and another go missing? Why bother leaving evidence behind, when the government can just have the victims disappear entirely?
The local residents polluting the water with cotton once a year during the festival. Maybe it is a hallucinogenic mutant cotton. :D :D :D :D
The truth is that what happened during those episodes is in reality just Cthulhu and his cultists doing :cool: . I wonder if creators of the original game are big fans of Lovecraft's books :).
Bron's ideas are pretty well developed. But I have some questions/criticisms, even taking into account that TIP:
* If it was some sort of government test spiking the air/water, why was only Keiichi affected? Why limit the test to once a year during the festival, having one person die and another go missing? Why bother leaving evidence behind, when the government can just have the victims disappear entirely?
* Some sort of drug inducing psychosis would make more sense than a natural psychological illness. But why would the toxicology report find no substances? Do they only test for known chemicals, or some kind of conspiracy is suppressing the results?
* Those guys in green. Knowing who they are would be a huge clue.
Yes, there's lots of questions on these theories. Since there was so little information, I tried to think up explainations to the thing we had the most info on - keiichi's insanity - without thinking too much about the other things going on. I think the illness/drug explanation is the most likely at this stage simply because of the phone call at the end of ep four. Natural psychosis doesn't cause that, at least not to two people.
Of course, you can explain everything away by saying that its the shrine god's doing. But damn, that'd be the biggest cop out ever - it'd be the 'if all else fails, the wizard did it' style of writing.
The biggest mystery is the green guys. They clearly have a major involvement, and i suspect the missing person in each case was their doing. But we have next to no information about them.
At this point, i'm just going to see what happens in the next chapter before i speculate some more. There just isn't enough information to do anything else.
Things i'll be looking out for in the next 'chapter':
- I hope the chapters have significantly different outcomes. If each replay is just keiichi going insane, but slightly differently each time, its going to be very hard to get reliable information as we'll get a one or two episode window of sanity before we have to start assuming most stuff is in his head.
- More information about the guys in green dammit. Their existence is an almost complete mystery in onikakushi, very little information to go off. The clues just aren't there like they are for keiichi's insanity (or are in a form you won't see until you've seen later chapters and connect the dots).
- More insane rena please. That USODA~ is awesome. Ooh, ooh - make rena go as insane as keiichi did so we can see what its like on the other side of the paranoid delusions, that'd be good, and it'd be a lot easier to figure out whats real and what isnt.
Conclusions: More insane rena, less insane keiichi please. Oh, and hurry up with more episodes :D.
Freakman
2006-04-30, 05:34
Sorry to disappoint you, but you won't see more wacko Rena until the last few episodes, in TsumiHoroboshi.
I've been watching this show since the start of the series, and I LOVE IT! Anyways, here's my take on the first arc...
Keiichi displays signs of paranoia and delusional behavior. The girls seem to be suffering from either multiple personality disorder, schizophrenia, or psychosis. They are most definately NOT normal. Although I think some parts of the story are due to Keiichi's fractured psyche, there MUST be some reason as to why he and his group of "friends" are slowly driven insane. I do not believe it is a supernatural force, but merely the atmosphere of the town or some government experiment. Who knows...? I truly believe that the girls are not the murderers, and never were. How old would they have had to been 5 years ago at the dam construction incident? Most likely between 7 and 8 years old. If supposedly healthy men and women are taken down and strangled by a 7 year old, there's something wrong there. I suppose if the 7 year old had the element of surprise and sufficient training in firearms use or assassination, but when in god's name would that ever happen? Anyways, I believe that the loss of sanity in Keiichi's group as well as the other victims of the town are due in some part to the "Director" and his group of men in green jumpsuits. Although they could also be figments of the childrens' imagination, I highly doubt that theory. They seem to either be: 1. Covering up indications of conspiracy/higher government powers tampering/experimenting with the townspeople in order to keep the belief of the "curse" alive OR 2. A group attempting to cure the townspeople of this "curse." The scene in which Keiichi runs into the men in green jumpsuits reminded me of that scene in "The Truman Show" in which Truman's attempted escape is foiled by a "nuclear meltdown." It gives me an eerie feeling of conspiracy.
Anyways, my two cents. Discuss!
I haven't been talking much in this thread mainly 'cause its all speculation, but seriously no other anime has been able to suck me in like the first 4 episodes of Higurashi has.. i know there's a hell of a lot more to it - and i have some ideas floating around in my head... maybe i'll share them later. ^^;
Wow... episode 4 was beyond intense. I've never seen a show that's developed itself quite like this one, that's for sure! I can't wait to see what happens next. And I'm really, really glad that I didn't watch ep 4 at night. :heh:
And I'm really, really glad that I didn't watch ep 4 at night. :heh:
You think thats bad.. i've been alone on my house since thursday. ;_;
Anyone else notice that in her casual clothing in episode 3 and 4, Mion was carrying a gun? I mean, it really looks like a holster and a gun. :confused:
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/230/miongun7so.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=miongun7so.jpg)
So the men caught Keiichi. But it doesn't make too much sense as to why the men tried to run over Keiichi and kill him before, but now only knocked him out and handed him over to Rena.
Then the girls inject him with a mystery drug. They are able to hold down Keiichi one second while injecting him, but after that he gets the strength to overpower them and bash them to death. Why would they even bring the bat to his room after caputring him?
The director and doctor seem to have a good chance of being the same person too, as Rena told Keiichi she called the doctor, and a few seconds later tells Mion she called the Director. Also, after the girls die, the neighborgood doctor from the clinic shows up with the white van men, so he's probably the key mastermind here.
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/5596/doc3ip.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=doc3ip.jpg)
Also, the game where Rika "killed" the person in the medical office slowly with poison seems too good a parallel to miss now, with plenty of ambiguous needles floating around. Also, she's clearly entwined in the temple, being the one who prepared the cotton at the now deadly festival.
Other missing things would be the ohagi game which Keiichi lost and was punished for with the needle, but the nature of the game is still unclear. All we know is that we have the letters ABCDE, where E had the needle.
My theory then:
So a perverted doctor in the country tests out new drugs in clinic on local girls, making them bipolar. He abuses the myth of Oyashiro-sama to "spirit away" people for his crazy schemes and removes those whose actions he doesn't approve of using his killer loli squad. Rena, too, was whisked away along with Satoshi, but she came back, as Mion mentions during the rain conversation, and now she's a part of the loli squad. Prehaps she survived some form of treatment that occurs to those spirited away, while Satoshi didn't. Now we flashback to a new arc and see the sad story of how these girls got involved with the evil mastermind doctor.
Eh?
So the men caught Keiichi. But it doesn't make too much sense as to why the men tried to run over Keiichi and kill him before, but now only knocked him out and handed him over to Rena.
Hmm, i'm not to sure if it was said that the men caught upto Keiichi, i mean if Rena & Satoko have anything to do with whats going on, it could be them?
DingoEnderZOE2
2006-04-30, 16:03
Just now finished watching episode 4 and all I can say is:
Wow....Just wow. This episode was just too suspenseful and well done for words to describe. What's impressive to me was all the events from Episodes 1 - 4 up to now all led perfectly into Keichi's inevitable fate. But now I can't help but wonder, what now? Now that we know that Keichi's dead what's supposed to happen now? Who's supposed to continue the investigation?
he DVD comes with a "mini soundtrack" CD which is a bit different from the official soundtrack that's going to be released in July 21st.
Ah, right. Thanks :)
Just now finished watching episode 4 and all I can say is:
Wow....Just wow. This episode was just too suspenseful and well done for words to describe. What's impressive to me was all the events from Episodes 1 - 4 up to now all led perfectly into Keichi's inevitable fate. But now I can't help but wonder, what now? Now that we know that Keichi's dead what's supposed to happen now? Who's supposed to continue the investigation?
Nonono, read kj's post here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=544437&postcount=247). That's how it's going to work.
And just a question, what will it take for Higurashi to get its own section of the forum? ^^;
The mods will kill you for daring to ask :p
There is alot going on in this show, its very hard to come up with some explanation for things when there are so few possible clues. I think im with Bron on the infection/virus/parasite theory since they didnt find any substance abuse. Now assuming that K1 was not infected in the begining of ep1 then some guessings where he could have gotten infected in ep1 is:
A) K1's mom says he should thank Rena for the Pickles that she had given. Which K1 also ate in the morning of ep1?
B) The picknick at the shrine, didnt a priest die there because of some weird disease? Also he ate Rena's home made lunchbox.
C) The punishment game where he gets his face painted with a marker pen.
Oishi-san and Mion know eachother? In ep2 Oishi tells K1 that he specifically must not tell Mion (and his friends) then in ep4 she talks about that she showed him mercy and stuff.
Also in the preview to ep5 we see Mion dressed as one of those waitresses that work in the resturant where K1 and Oishi ate? That would explain how Mion new about that
Scribble
2006-04-30, 17:20
also the punishment game where he gets his face painted is the exact situation in episode 4....Rena is holding Kei and Mion is advancing towards him. I know it's pretty much already been said that Kei goes "mad", it's just an observation.
I'm also wondering how cicadas fit into this. Does Na have anything to do with this. When Kei has his first "insane eyes" moment is when his dad brings the tea, saying that Rena visited. Then cicadas were shown fluttering near the light. Maybe this is just irrelevant and is just a simple metaphor.
Freak Of Nature
2006-04-30, 17:32
Also in the preview to ep5 we see Mion dressed as one of those waitresses that work in the resturant where K1 and Oishi ate? That would explain how Mion new about that
The name of the café where K1 and Oishi ate is Angel Mort. How very suggestive...
Seiryuu's remark about how K1 and the girls are never behaving insanely simultaneously is, I think, spot on. There's little doubt that, no matter what the truth is, a large part of what we are shown is not real. It's somehow filtered through a lens of insanity or evil or something paranormal. But whose lens is it we are seeing through? K1's? Or is the answer more subtle than that?
Damn, Rena's insane face is scary. Best psycho-look I've ever seen. Norman Bates go home.
Yeah Bron, that's a very coherent writeup on Keiichi's insanity, I like your train of thought. And I appreciate that the game players are become our very own TIPS factor. The one kj1980 last put up is interesting, but I don't know what to make of that information.
I thought hard about it but it seems to me like almost every possible theory is nullified by the doctor's answer. The one left is the "got hit in the head" theory which both Tomitake and Keiichi shared, but what about the events before the green guys assaulted Keiichi. Can Keiichi's state of mind back then be described as a bipolar state of depression? Can the ohagi needle and the van incident be said to be part of his suicide tendencies which he didn't have the will to die for? If it's only part of the answer, are there other leads? Can the coroner be trusted? Could the coroner be our suspicious 4-eyed doctor?
3. http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=538017&postcount=173 :heh:
The part that got ripped out is the passage mentioning the syringe.
4. There's only 1 phone booth in Hinamizawa. Oishi wrote "Hinamizawa telephone box" on a piece of paper and showed it to a fellow worker while talking to Keiichi, and the fellow worker wrote back "One phone box in Hinamizawa, patrol car has been sent, 5 minutes".
3. Hmm... you didn't mention if it was a mistake or not. But by this screenie in ep 4 (http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/2883/ep416007du.jpg) which I've just noticed, it's like Studio Deen was pushing it into our faces and saying "look here, that was no mistake!" :heh: Looking at the time frame and your info about the missing part, the van incident onwards were foretold in the note. Could it be that Keiichi subconsciously played out the script he wrote in his fucked mind? Which brings us to the point of the suicide tip again. There was this part which he wrote that Tomitake died of the drug and the syringe was the evidence. That was almost like he was psychoing himself that he would die the same way Tomitake did. And like Bron said, it might just be water in that syringe. There was also this part which says "If you are reading this, I might already be dead." While it's the norm to have a similar passage in such notes (fiction and movies always have them), it's frightening that this underlined what Keiichi could have done there. :twitch:
4. Still there's something about the old man that troubles me. He associated himself with Keiichi so that he would return to him with information that he needed to solve the case. Though he instructed Keiichi not to tell anyone especially Mion, I wonder if he knew the kind of trouble Keiichi might get into if they knew they were on close terms. Well he didn't even offer any kind of help or protection when Keiichi first told him about the attempts on his life. Maybe, one can even accuse him of sending Keiichi, a mere 1? years old teenager to his death.
Additionally, I found a couple of interesting points which haven't been mentioned yet. They don't really answer anything and raise more questions instead, but I thought they could be of some importance (?). Meh I think questioning is the only thing I can do at this point, I have no answers at all.
1. Keiichi's converstation with Mion in ep 4, the part where Mion goes on about the Jiji and how she should have had him killed. I don't know much about psychology, but I thought that scene could be important because it couldn't have been something which Keiichi imagined due to his supposed paranoia condition, the said target was Oishi (or some other jiji?) and not him. I kinda doubt Keiichi would have the capacity to imagined that when his supposed delusions are all about people wanting to kill him and not someone else. Well if I'm wrong, some well-read people please educate me on that. :p Anyway, that could mean Mion's expression from crying to murderous intent wasn't what Keiichi imagined, this could be the evidence that those were real emotions that she was showing. If that's the case, I have a mind to think that could be the same with Rena too. The Oyashiro-mode and the kawaii-mode could both be the real side of Rena too.
2. While the show seems to suggest that most believe Oyashiro-sama as directly or indirectly the cause of the Watanagashi deaths every year, it seems to me that Onikakushi isn't as widely believed to be the cause for the missing people. Hell I wonder if most of the Hinamizawa natives even know that some of the deaths were infact people going missing. It's like the deaths were really just a cover for the missing people. Earlier we saw Keiichi recalls his teacher refering to Satoshi's seat as belonging to the transfered student. I thought there was no reason for her to lie about Satoshi being missing unless she didn't know that he was missing. If she had knew, she would have avoided saying anything so she won't hurt Satoko. And let's not forget Rena, who always insisted that Satoshi transferred. On the other hand, we have the grandmas gossiping about Takano, they did brought up Onikakushi though they later decided that Takano probably went to Tokyo with Tomitake, but the glaring part is that they didn't seems to know Tomitake was dead. I thought all these are strange if you consider how news like that would have spread fast in a small rural town.
I think I'm just throwing speculations left and right and I don't even know what I'm onto with all that questions, but this is addictive.
I'm wondering what will they do in the next episode. Keiichi can't be alive for it, so what? D:
And also, Rena looks like Keade's little sister. ;P
This thread did not need the mention of Kaede...
Did you read kj1980 posts?
The anime follows the game sequential order of scenarios.
Actually, I made that explanation very simple. The more confusing way to explain it was:
Onikakushi: Certain event became a trigger point that lead to this ending.
Watanagashi: A certain decision by Keiichi leads to a chain event of something terrible.
Tatarigoroshi: An unexpected re-appearance leads everything to disaster.
And no, I'm not spilling any details. That up for you to think.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I just wanted to know....is it quite possible to figure out more than "20%" of the whole mystery by just watching the Onikakushi-hen portion? Are there still more clues in the first 4 episodes that haven't been picked up on yet?
Probably not...but by the time we get to Tsumihoroboshi (the sixth chapter), you'll find many of the hints that were there in Onikakushi that you may have missed.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Either way, the behavior swings, and the way they seemed to appear and grow after his arrival, definitely lends to the possibility of some sort of drug or environmental stimulus. Maybe there's a rare mold growing in the school walls?
The question is not "what caused Keiichi's insanity, the more likely question is what is the trigger point of his paranoia
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
also the punishment game where he gets his face painted is the exact situation in episode 4....Rena is holding Kei and Mion is advancing towards him. I know it's pretty much already been said that Kei goes "mad", it's just an observation.
I'm also wondering how cicadas fit into this. Does Na have anything to do with this. When Kei has his first "insane eyes" moment is when his dad brings the tea, saying that Rena visited. Then cicadas were shown fluttering near the light. Maybe this is just irrelevant and is just a simple metaphor.
Good perspective. So the question is....if that is taken from Keiichi's point of view, was Mion really holding a syringe?
The Na does not have a specific meaning, but the original author Ryukishi07 mention that the red Na is indeed part of the title. Fans and the anime production staff keeps this intact out of respect. It also catches the attention as one character being mysteriously and subtlely in red font as well, doesn't it?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm wondering what will they do in the next episode. Keiichi can't be alive for it, so what?
My wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) should just be a sticky for these FAQs.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In either case, many of you have their own theories, which is a good thing. And many have mentioned one item as evidence.
I'll say this so you can keep this jabbed in your mind for the next set of episodes:
The syringe is a recurring key item in the mystery. Whether it is evidence or not, I'm not saying. But it is an important item to ponder about.
Scribble
2006-04-30, 17:53
Could the thing responsible for damaging Kei's mind, as mentioned in the TIP, be
The cries of the cicadas. EDIT: Apparently they can be really, really loud.
.
I'm doing the best I can here, really :heh:
The syringe is a recurring key item in the mystery. Whether it is evidence or not, I'm not saying. But it is an important item to ponder about.
Come to think about it.. the cops didn't find it - probably the men who arrived at Keiichi's house must have taken it - i'll keep what you said in mind.
There is alot going on in this show, its very hard to come up with some explanation for things when there are so few possible clues. I think im with Bron on the infection/virus/parasite theory since they didnt find any substance abuse. Now assuming that K1 was not infected in the begining of ep1 then some guessings where he could have gotten infected in ep1 is:
A) K1's mom says he should thank Rena for the Pickles that she had given. Which K1 also ate in the morning of ep1?
B) The picknick at the shrine, didnt a priest die there because of some weird disease? Also he ate Rena's home made lunchbox.
C) The punishment game where he gets his face painted with a marker pen.
Oishi-san and Mion know eachother? In ep2 Oishi tells K1 that he specifically must not tell Mion (and his friends) then in ep4 she talks about that she showed him mercy and stuff.
Also in the preview to ep5 we see Mion dressed as one of those waitresses that work in the resturant where K1 and Oishi ate? That would explain how Mion new about that
For the relationshiop between Oishi and Mion, think about the war over the dam construction 5 years ago. Pay extra attention to Mion and Oishi's positions at the time (and now).
I'm wondering what will they do in the next episode. Keiichi can't be alive for it, so what? D:
Just like kj1980 said, after a chapter ends, things "start over", and a new development will take place. The job for the viewers will be to pay attention to the differences and similarities between each of these "chapters" (1 - 4 was Onikakushi-hen, Watanagashi-hen will most likely go from 5 - 8), as well as "putting the pieces together", using informations you have learned across all the different "chapters".
By the way, I have posted episode 5's preview screenshots back a few pages ago, I'll put them here again (with potential spoiler removed this time ^^; ) in case anyone missed them:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi09.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi10.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi11.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi12.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi14.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi15.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi16.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/20060428_10_higurashi18.jpg
According to the official site's preview, episode 5 will run through the toy shop tournament,
the "doll" event,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/05-1.jpgΣ (゜д ゜；)
all the way up to the meeting between Keiichi and "Shion".
詩音かわいいよ詩音。^^
あとマゾ。
Thanks for the screenshots Sushi-Y~ ^^
It looks like Episode 05's gonna have the heartwarming feelings that episode 01 had, i wonder if it'll be 100% like that.
Freak Of Nature
2006-04-30, 19:19
Just like kj1980 said, after a chapter ends, things "start over", and a new development will take place. The job for the viewers will be to pay attention to the differences and similarities between each of these "chapters" (1 - 4 was Onikakushi-hen, Watanagashi-hen will most likely go from 5 - 8), as well as "putting the pieces together", using informations you have learned across all the different "chapters".
Now I have to ask: if things "start over", that means that the events of eps. 1-4 are a series of events that didn't happen, right? Just one possibility in the continuum of events that could result from the same circumstances -- as if we're playing through the various story tracks of the game, looking for the one thread that will lead to a non-catastrophic outcome?
Is that it? Or are those different storylines somehow all true at once?
Scribble
2006-04-30, 19:24
Here I am again, really eager to find the answer. This may be interesting, actually:
Read this:
Brain injury can occur in many ways. Traumatic brain injuries typically result from accidents in which the head strikes an object. This is the most common type of traumatic brain injury. However, other brain injuries, such as those caused by insufficient oxygen, poisoning, or infection, can cause similar deficits.
Mild Traumatic Brain Injury (MTBI) is characterized by one or more of the following symptoms: a brief loss of consciousness, loss of memory immediately before or after the injury, any alteration in mental state at the time of the accident, or focal neurological deficits. In many MTBI cases, the person seems fine on the surface, yet continues to endure chronic functional problems. Some people suffer long-term effects of MTBI, known as postconcussion syndrome (PCS). Persons suffering from PCS can experience significant changes in cognition and personality.
[/B]
Now, in the beginning of episode 2, Kei reads the newspaper article and is shocked. Then Rena appears with her machete, which scares the life out of Kei, who falls onto the wreckage....probably bumping his head in the process. This is perhaps the first step in making Kei go insane? Maybe the image of the knife and scary Rena is printed on his brain, and he associates it with the murder in the newspaper, the first step towards his downfall? I can't really explain it that well, but you get the jist.
As for the syringe, I don't think it exists.
Now I have to ask: if things "start over", that means that the events of eps. 1-4 are a series of events that didn't happen, right? Just one possibility in the continuum of events that could result from the same circumstances -- as if we're playing through the various story tracks of the game, looking for the one thread that will lead to a non-catastrophic outcome?
Is that it? Or are those different storylines somehow all true at once?
in a sense, all true at once. more like different perspective and other things that happened during that time line which weren't seen from keiichi's eyes
Here I am again, really eager to find the answer. This may be interesting, actually:
Read this:
Brain injury can occur in many ways. Traumatic brain injuries typically result from accidents in which the head strikes an object. This is the most common type of traumatic brain injury. However, other brain injuries, such as those caused by insufficient oxygen, poisoning, or infection, can cause similar deficits.
Mild Traumatic Brain Injury (MTBI) is characterized by one or more of the following symptoms: a brief loss of consciousness, loss of memory immediately before or after the injury, any alteration in mental state at the time of the accident, or focal neurological deficits. In many MTBI cases, the person seems fine on the surface, yet continues to endure chronic functional problems. Some people suffer long-term effects of MTBI, known as postconcussion syndrome (PCS). Persons suffering from PCS can experience significant changes in cognition and personality.
[/B]
Now, in the beginning of episode 2, Kei reads the newspaper article and is shocked. Then Rena appears with her machete, which scares the life out of Kei, who falls onto the wreckage....probably bumping his head in the process. This is perhaps the first step in making Kei go insane? Maybe the image of the knife and scary Rena is printed on his brain, and he associates it with the murder in the newspaper, the first step towards his downfall? I can't really explain it that well, but you get the jist.
As for the syringe, I don't think it exists.
That makes sense. K1 also gets knocked down in ep4 after being chased(?) by psycho Rena, maybe that made it worse as he kills Rena and Mion after he wakes up. But then would K1 sliding his throat be unrelated to his insanity.
Freak Of Nature
2006-04-30, 20:20
One thing that really struck me...
I don't know what the truth is about Rena. There's no way of knowing for sure, I think, at this point in the series. But I do know this:
That scene where Rena's hand is caught in the door, and she is whimpering pitifully "Gomen nasai, gomen nasai" as Keiichi presses against it, moved me deeply. Her voice was so pitiable and abject, so miserable, that the thought came to me that even if she were a psychotic murderess, I pitied her.
And as she stood in the rain afterwards, still apologizing, the scene was clearly meant to be unsettling and eerie and frightening -- but again, it moved me to pity for her.
This anime is rapidly growing on me.
One thing that really struck me...
I don't know what the truth is about Rena. There's no way of knowing for sure, I think, at this point in the series. But I do know this:
That scene where Rena's hand is caught in the door, and she is whimpering pitifully "Gomen nasai, gomen nasai" as Keiichi presses against it, moved me deeply. Her voice was so pitiable and abject, so miserable, that the thought came to me that even if she were a psychotic murderess, I pitied her.
And as she stood in the rain afterwards, still apologizing, the scene was clearly meant to be unsettling and eerie and frightening -- but again, it moved me to pity for her.
This anime is rapidly growing on me.
are you sure rena was actually there in the rain apologizing afterwards? or was it just what keiichi saw. :rolleyes:
But I do know this:
That scene where Rena's hand is caught in the door, and she is whimpering pitifully "Gomen nasai, gomen nasai" as Keiichi presses against it, moved me deeply. Her voice was so pitiable and abject, so miserable, that the thought came to me that even if she were a psychotic murderess, I pitied her.
And as she stood in the rain afterwards, still apologizing, the scene was clearly meant to be unsettling and eerie and frightening -- but again, it moved me to pity for her.
This anime is rapidly growing on me.
I don't know if pitied would be the word i'd use - more along the lines of 'i feel sorry for her' - most of the time it felt like she didn't wanna do what she ended up doing, you know the whole two people inside one body thing.
Freak Of Nature
2006-04-30, 20:27
are you sure rena was actually there in the rain apologizing afterwards? or was it just what keiichi saw. :rolleyes:
Ahem...
"I don't know what the truth is about Rena. There's no way of knowing for sure, I think, at this point in the series."
I don't know if pitied would be the word i'd use - more along the lines of 'i feel sorry for her' - most of the time it felt like she didn't wanna do what she ended up doing, you know the whole two people inside one body thing.
Pity, compassion, feeling sorry for -- call it what you will. I was moved to a feeling of empathy with her suffering (if, indeeed, she was really there).
aliensporebomb
2006-04-30, 20:32
Well, now that I've watched all four of the episodes and promptly had my brain
turned inside out I've come up with some potential ideas. I think Bron had a
lot of ideas that I did as well:
"Novella" follows.
I do feel that Keiichi had some psychotic episodes due to at least one or
more incidents involving either a blow to the head or several events that
would have indicated he was susceptible to some of this on some level.
It's also possible the girls, under the influence of a chemical compound,
acted in a way contrary to their true nature. That chemical compound
and its testing and deployment may be at the heart of this entire story.
So for a little more than half a decade we have odd happenings blamed
on a local "God". Might that chemical compound be nicknamed with
the name of that God?
And that chemical compound would not have just been something simple
but a complex compound with very specific properties on the human mind,
especially a compound that would have very predictable effects on individuals
with a susceptibility to certain mental states. With Keiichi being more and
more paranoid from the start perhaps being in a paranoid state (or cornered
animal / fight or flight) is the key to trigger that compound.
I'm more inclined to believe some very powerful, very well connected people
in that town are using experimental drugs, possibly with connections to the
military to turn anyone into a "super soldier" or to make anyone behave in
a particular way overriding their true personality.
The small town locale is used to avoid suspicion and usually small town
police are perceived as less likely to be able to put two and two together.
If you aren't very likely to kill someone due to your nature, how can
you get someone to go beyond their nature to kill on command?
A special compound that would make you have a psychotic break
and not perceive reality correctly and perhaps just go berserk if
administered with proper pre-conditioning.
It's possible that this has been administered to him before - the shot
he received for his "cold". Also the "needle" may have been coated
with it when he received the food. No blood was seen but that doesn't
mean he didn't get a poke due to his violent reaction.
If they perceived he was susceptible to subtle influences leading to
massive paranoia and schizophrenic symptoms, administering this
drug might amplify those tendencies. Taking someone who is
essentially harmless and turning them into a cold blooded killer.
I think there's a lot more to it than this.
Was the "hit and run" a "warning" from those in charge?
Possibly. His complicity in a police investigation would be just
enough meddling to make those in charge of this want to take
him out.
Did he hallucinate it?
Parts of it I believe. But I also believe the girls and perhaps many
individuals in that town were injected with the compound at one
point or another to watch the reaction.
Were they hypnotized?:
I believe the real issue at heart here is mind control using a compound
making it possible. There's been a long history of mind control using
various drugs - I'll reference this later.
Who were the people from the van chasing him thru the woods?
They were obviously minions of those in charge of the tests for this.
If this experiment were exposed all involved would be arrested and
jailed probably forever so they have an incentive to avoid exposure.
That incentive would even go so far as murder. Perhaps they also
are injected with the chemical to insure control.
The men in the van:
They were obviously related to the director as the same van shows up at the end.
The girls -
Syringe = definite medical establishment conspiracy if it wasn't hallucinated.
-"Let's finish this before the director gets here".
-Did they inject him knowing he'd go insane and it would lead to their deaths?
-I believe this was yes and they were controlled to do it by the same drug or
possibly a group of drugs.
-Perhaps those behind the test were desperate enough they knew Keiichi was
a loose cannon and needed to be taken out before he exposed their operation.
-Who would knowingly do this unless they were boxed into a corner by some
higher power or authority that would likely kill them as well? Either way, the
girls willingly did this because either they were under some kind of mind control
or they were on some kind of drug to that that controllable part of their personality
come out.
Hypothesis:
High level coverup with possible government complicity. Local police
would have no idea of this and not be in on the secret.
There isn't a government in the world who wouldn't kill for a compound
that would turn an essentially docile populace into a willing army or even
turn a conscripted army into a wave of devastation. Look at the MK-Ultra
experiments conducted by the american CIA in the 1950s and 1960s.
Maybe I'm going a bit farther, but there's a lot more to this story than
they're telling.
Also, Keiichi's psychotic clawing his own throat out was a preprogrammed
move that the drug enabled his body to execute.
Can't wait for episode5.
Pity, compassion, feeling sorry for -- call it what you will. I was moved to a feeling of empathy with her suffering (if, indeeed, she was really there).
Yeah, i understood what you mean't - its good that people are just not seeing her as a killer.
DingoEnderZOE2
2006-04-30, 20:56
One thing that really struck me...
I don't know what the truth is about Rena. There's no way of knowing for sure, I think, at this point in the series. But I do know this:
That scene where Rena's hand is caught in the door, and she is whimpering pitifully "Gomen nasai, gomen nasai" as Keiichi presses against it, moved me deeply. Her voice was so pitiable and abject, so miserable, that the thought came to me that even if she were a psychotic murderess, I pitied her.
And as she stood in the rain afterwards, still apologizing, the scene was clearly meant to be unsettling and eerie and frightening -- but again, it moved me to pity for her.
This anime is rapidly growing on me.
I have to agree. I couldn't help but go "awww c'mon Keiichi she sounds so pitiful and in pain, at least be more gentle when you go crazy on her. :( It was creepy yet touching for me how I still felt so sad for her when she still kept apologizing in the cold rain looking up at the window repeating herself.
Scribble
2006-04-30, 21:01
The whole door-hand thing seems even worse if it turns out to be that the girls weren't psycho after all. Seeing it from their perspective, Kei would be a very, very scary person, and it would have been extremely damaging to them to see their friend "Fall into chaos" like he did.
That's *if* the girls were innocent.
I also felt sorry for little blondie when he waves the bat in her face.
I also felt sorry for little blondie when he waves the bat in her face.
If i'm right, Satoko has a lot to do with that bat.
aliensporebomb
2006-04-30, 22:17
So it seems that the underlying theme of this show really is everything you know or think you know is wrong.
Can't wait for the rest.
Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 4.
Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for RAWs.
Try to keep spoilers from the Game or Manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Game / Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.
Spoiler Tag Usage
Using Spoiler Tags is easy. Using this...
Don't forget to use the spoiler title
....will get you this...
Don't forget to use the spoiler title
Pretty much each episodes gonna get a 10 from me - no show has been able to catch me in the style of suspense like Higurashi has.
DingoEnderZOE2
2006-05-01, 08:15
The same goes for me too. So far this is the most unique anime I've ever watched, mainly because I've never watched a suspenseful anime before.
Though that couple of minutes when he's beating the girls to deathwere very intense. Almost uncomfortably long. The episode still gets a 10 (as that was obviously the intention), but it's going to make it difficult to rewatch this episode.
This is rapidly becoming my favorite show of the season (something I would have thought to be impossible in a season that included a second season of School Rumble).
First anime episode, which I just didn't feel like watching again (I wanted to watch it subbed), because it was too good (in the way it was supposed to be). This episode was too intense and painful, I think it was more intense than 12'th Narutaru (for me it is very much). I'm a bit afraid of what's going to be next. Straight '10'.
Scribble
2006-05-01, 10:22
First anime episode, which I just didn't feel like watching again (I wanted to watch it subbed), because it was too good (in the way it was supposed to be). This episode was too intense and painful, I think it was more intense than 12'th Narutaru (for me it is very much). I'm a bit afraid of what's going to be next. Straight '10'.
I agree, I thought no anime series would ever top Narutaru in that respect, but then this comes along and does it at episode 4. Stuff like Elfen Lied was intense and disturbing, but it was more of a physical thing (the gore and dismemberment).
There's 22 episodes left, which leaves the possibility that at least ONE of them will be more intense than this one. I'm looking forward to it, but also very worried at the same time.
SvenTheSweeper
2006-05-01, 12:08
Though that couple of minutes when he's beating the girls to deathwere very intense. Almost uncomfortably long. The episode still gets a 10 (as that was obviously the intention), but it's going to make it difficult to rewatch this episode.
This is rapidly becoming my favorite show of the season (something I would have thought to be impossible in a season that included a second season of School Rumble).
Damn you Keiichi! (for killing my favorite Psycho-lollies, Rena and Mion) <-Done in an anguished Captain Kirk voice ;)
But then again, maybe not, if we are to heed the advice of KJ and Sushi-Y about-> "#3 Make determinations based on what you believe to be solid facts. This has been mentioned over and over again before, but don't believe everything you see or hear."
I agree that scene was uncomfortable to watch. But I decided to watch it a couple of times to look for important clues and details. It was depressing watching what happened to you favorite characters.
Currently, I am resigned to the fact that what happened was real and not a delusion.
awyongcarl
2006-05-01, 13:13
This is the creepiest anime I've ever watched...
It creep me out at the starting of Eps 1..then the heartwarming scene was followed..
But I knew it's a foretold or whatever, so it happened..
And now, I am really creep out...
Well, I watched it just now, it was 1.30am in my place..
And i just finished playing the PC FPS game..Condemned..
lol..
Anyway, this is a great anime!
Nevermind. My point had too many holes to think about.
Crimen Scythe
2006-05-01, 20:36
im really liking this anime for some reason...and i really like the OP....im really enjoying this series...it keeps me thinking wut's going to happen next...since all my knowledge of this series is from the anime alone...i like how everything is portrayed in the anime...plot-wise and character-wise....struggle for survival...^^
Azn_GooWakJai
2006-05-01, 21:47
The anime has become so intense I might have a heart attack sooner or later O.O
Paranoia833
2006-05-01, 22:41
Hi all, new guy here. I found this thread while googling for Higurashi looking for... well exactly this sort of discussion. After reading through this thread I thought I'd add my thoughts.
The various cryptic hints from the game players in this and the thread in the main forum, coupled with Bron's hallucination theory have really one me over, the girls' "psycho" moments seem too unreal to be true, especially when coupled with peoples observations as to Keiichi's erratic behaviour and the first-person angles of the "slit-eye" shots.
Given KJ's constant emphasis on trigger points I'm surprised no one seems to be making a bigger deal of searching for it. Anyway a quick rewatch of episode two has me thinking about one critical period from which Keichii's uneasiness grow to mania.
Oishi's car. The moment Keichii walks out of the car he's a changed guy. The scene cuts rapidly to him eavesdropping on Rena and Mion, then to him questioning Rena. Once Rena refuses to answer, Keichii has all the material he needs to construct a paranoid fantasy, which Oishi seems only too happy to fuel. (Seriously that was the most suspicious part for me. In my, admittedly limited, experience police don't just feed people conjecture like that, like he's trying to encourage Keichii to make his own connections from the limited information he's providing him with. Coming up with a theory should be HIS job rather than a frightened, paranoid young man's.)
As for how this might happen... well if you go by the drug/disease theory I'd say the fumes from Oishi's cigarette in the car are a good bet. An awful lot of the animation in that scene is based around Oishi's lighter and cigs, and Higurashi doesn't strike me as the type of anime to ram a point like that so heavily unless there was some reason. Especially considering Oishi didn't open the window of his car until AFTER the fumes had filled it. Inconsiderate asshole or devious poisoner? You decide.
Of course that theory has its holes, so I highly doubt my conjecture would contain anything more than a grain of The Truth (tm), if that. For instance, even if we assume Oishi is some sort of mastermind puppet master who can drug kids and command them to kill, it seems pretty risky. I mean there's no way someone under the influence of a hallucinogen like that could be counted on to follow the path you've laid out for them, seems too much of a loose cannon. (That is assuming the point of inducing Keichii's insanity was to kill the girls/Mion, and not just kill himself.)
Likewise, how would someone get hold of a wonder drug/disease that's completely untraceable and works so fast? Not the kind of thing you'd buy over a pharmacy counter. If Oishi can get his hands on something like this he'd have to have serious connections. Not exactly something a run of the mill cop (or a lone nutcase if he's lying about his career) would have access to.
Finally, if Oishi did administer a drug through his cigarette, he'd have inhaled it too. Now it's possible he's got an antidote or something, but it seems kind of risky thing to do.
So yeah, this Oishi as the prime suspect thing is all conjecture, and quite possibly exactly where the writers want to lead you before they throw you a curve ball that shatters the whole theory, but either Oishi's car or the overheard conversation immediately after this seem like the 'trigger points' to me. Everything before that seems to minor and doesn't implicate the girls in any way. (The exception being the 'Keichii hits his head after seeing Rena with a cleaver in the dump' theory but that seems to rely far too much on coincidence for my taste, Keichii just happening to get a condition that often leads to suicide the day before the guy he talks to is murdered/suicided)
Anyway, just my stream of consciousness conjecture. I'll post more when it's not 3 AM and I'm feeling more coherent.
evil-samurai
2006-05-01, 22:57
Anyone else notice that in her casual clothing in episode 3 and 4, Mion was carrying a gun? I mean, it really looks like a holster and a gun. :confused:
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/230/miongun7so.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=miongun7so.jpg)
Nice pick up, I didn't notice that. It sure does look like a gun, I couldn't think of anthing else it would be...
This episode was freakish; watching Keiichi going nuts was interesting, I kept on thinking everything might get better like it always does.. but it doesn't he keeps on getting more insane. Keiichi closing Rena's hand in the Door was awesome..! it must! of hurt >.< and it that scene I loved!! the sound of Rena just pulling on the chain over.. and over.. along with Rena saying keiichi-kun with a soft psychotic voice.
Azn_GooWakJai
2006-05-01, 23:19
Anyone else notice that in her casual clothing in episode 3 and 4, Mion was carrying a gun? I mean, it really looks like a holster and a gun. :confused:
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/230/miongun7so.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=miongun7so.jpg)
MY GOD THANK U for bringing up that point I noticed that myself too while watchin ep 3 where Mion was holdin the door tellin K1 to show up tmw for school. Then I carefully looked, WAIT A DARN MINUTE, IS SHE HOLDING A FREAKIN GUN? That must be like a 100% clue to us viewers to a missing puzzle. Mion is 15-16 rite? correct me if im wrong, but n e ways WHY would a girl like her hold a gun like that out in public without no one noticing especially K1 although its reasonable for him since he's too mindful but who's gonna kill him. But yea.....WOW Mion seems suspecious, but w/ her dead, who might the real culprit be? Bum Buum BUUUUUUUM. :p
I don't know if I am going to be able to watch anymore of this one. I hate Stephen King stories because the endings ALWAYS SUCK! I am the type that demands GOOD ENDINGS! I like to be entertained not horrified by a horrible ending. So can someone tell me now if this is a series that has a horrible ending? Their is alot of other anime out their that I can replace this one with because so far after this episode where what I thought was the main character is killed it feels too much like another stupid Stephen King type horror than anything else.. And I hate his stories.
SpaceDrake
2006-05-02, 02:43
Check episode 1. Mion's wearing it there too.
monstert
2006-05-02, 04:42
Oh wow, I just watch the first three and a half episodes, and this series is scaring me a whole lot. I have to stop in the middle of the fourth episode and continue it tomorrow morning to find out what happened.
And the scene with the door and Rena's hand reminds me of a bad incident where I did the same thing to my younger cousin's finger unintentionally.
Check episode 1. Mion's wearing it there too.
Yep, its her when she wears her everyday cloths - and in the game to, don't think its anything to worry about.
yamikage
2006-05-02, 09:53
Dammit, this is probably the most disturbing anime I have watched. Right now, very few anime pique my interest but this one actually makes me crave for the next episode.
I don't think I can think of any theories, as nothing makes too much sense right now. Nevermind the fact that what I'm probably thinking about it right now might be wrong.
@kj1980: I've lurked in Higurashi's original thread long before it became an anime and I have learned a very important lesson: To whatever you're hyping, I'm definitely watching.
To this episode I give a solid 9, because it's too early to give a perfect 10 and I'm waiting for that certain episode that will destroy everything that I believe stand for.
SvenTheSweeper
2006-05-02, 12:35
Anyone else notice that in her casual clothing in episode 3 and 4, Mion was carrying a gun? I mean, it really looks like a holster and a gun. :confused:
http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/230/miongun7so.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=miongun7so.jpg)
Not only that, but the gun disappears in the next sequence.
Mion's body is in the lower left corner.
Sorry, the picture is dark becuase it is a night time scene.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4624/higurashiep4mion22av.th.jpg (http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=higurashiep4mion22av.jpg)
FubaredByAnime
2006-05-02, 12:53
I don't know if I am going to be able to watch anymore of this one. I hate Stephen King stories because the endings ALWAYS SUCK! I am the type that demands GOOD ENDINGS! I like to be entertained not horrified by a horrible ending. So can someone tell me now if this is a series that has a horrible ending? Their is alot of other anime out their that I can replace this one with because so far after this episode where what I thought was the main character is killed it feels too much like another stupid Stephen King type horror than anything else.. And I hate his stories.
Time to cut your losses, move on and try something else then. I hear the stories for Higurashi get more depressing later on.
SpaceDrake
2006-05-02, 13:24
Not only that, but the gun disappears in the next sequence.
Mion's body is in the lower left corner.
Sorry, the picture is dark becuase it is a night time scene.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4624/higurashiep4mion22av.th.jpg (http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=higurashiep4mion22av.jpg)
It's entirely possible the holster flew off during the vigorous baseball-batting that occured right after Kei recieved his injection. Either that or it's a goof. :p
aliensporebomb
2006-05-02, 14:04
I believe it is intentional.
How much you want to bet english speaking individuals on their
production staff are reading this stuff and laughing maniacally.
This show exists to pull our collective chains.
thundrakkon
2006-05-02, 16:03
This series is definitely a great one so far, among so many good series starting this season.
I agree with Paranoia833,
He seems to know everything, and after the deaths in the end, it seems like he does not really care, as if it is a case close and moves onto the next. It is as if he is intentionally leading ("directing") events and adding more information as needed. The car scene did appear to be the turning point in Keiichi's paranoia.
If Oishi is involved with the whole dam project, he might be removing resistance. The murder event at the dam had one person not caught. The whole loli gang is 4 people, so they do not appear to be the suspects. That leaves the question, "who's the last murderer?"
Did we actually see the photographer die, or was it only mentioned?
The flowers falling in the beginning of the intro... I wonder what significance they have...
Concerning Rena, I was feeling so, so bad for her in the rain, crying, and apologizing. How could anyone be upset at her after seeing that?
I personally do not believe Rena and Mion are guilty of murder. It was all in Keiichi's head, I bet. Rena probably did break windows in her old school, but since no charges were pressed (and I think they mentioned a few deaths, too), I bet she did it for some good reason.
My most outlandish theory would be that this is a sort of insane asylum, where they have mentally disturbed patients go to recover. The doctor come and checks up on them. The blue suit guys are workers. Oishi is the director, leading psychological experiments.
People being transferred might mean they were released.
You have the scene where Keiichi appears to be hit on the head by a bat from a blue suit guy before awakening to see Rena by his side. The needle scene might be his medication to treat his dementia. You don't see the needle in the end, probably because Keiichi took it with him for some reason or another.
OK, so my theories have more holes than swiss cheese right now, but we really do not have enough information yet.
BTW, Rena, although psycho in certain scenes, appears to be regretful, kind, and too caring for me to believe that she is a murderer.
I really want to know how this turns out... although watching this alone is quite freaky. Maybe I should watch this series with friends, although I don't think I would be patient enough to wait. :heh: I kept thinking about psycho Rena the whole day after I watched it. Quite an impact, this series has.
Freakman
2006-05-02, 16:40
Don't forget to check the TIPS thread, which covers various topics about the events in Onikakushi.
This series is definitely a great one so far, among so many good series starting this season.
I agree with Paranoia833,
He seems to know everything, and after the deaths in the end, it seems like he does not really care, as if it is a case close and moves onto the next. It is as if he is intentionally leading ("directing") events and adding more information as needed. The car scene did appear to be the turning point in Keiichi's paranoia.
If Oishi is involved with the whole dam project, he might be removing resistance. The murder event at the dam had one person not caught. The whole loli gang is 4 people, so they do not appear to be the suspects. That leaves the question, "who's the last murderer?"
Did we actually see the photographer die, or was it only mentioned?
The flowers falling in the beginning of the intro... I wonder what significance they have...
Concerning Rena, I was feeling so, so bad for her in the rain, crying, and apologizing. How could anyone be upset at her after seeing that?
I personally do not believe Rena and Mion are guilty of murder. It was all in Keiichi's head, I bet. Rena probably did break windows in her old school, but since no charges were pressed (and I think they mentioned a few deaths, too), I bet she did it for some good reason.
My most outlandish theory would be that this is a sort of insane asylum, where they have mentally disturbed patients go to recover. The doctor come and checks up on them. The blue suit guys are workers. Oishi is the director, leading psychological experiments.
People being transferred might mean they were released.
You have the scene where Keiichi appears to be hit on the head by a bat from a blue suit guy before awakening to see Rena by his side. The needle scene might be his medication to treat his dementia. You don't see the needle in the end, probably because Keiichi took it with him for some reason or another.
OK, so my theories have more holes than swiss cheese right now, but we really do not have enough information yet.
BTW, Rena, although psycho in certain scenes, appears to be regretful, kind, and too caring for me to believe that she is a murderer.
I really want to know how this turns out... although watching this alone is quite freaky. Maybe I should watch this series with friends, although I don't think I would be patient enough to wait. :heh: I kept thinking about psycho Rena the whole day after I watched it. Quite an impact, this series has.
Start reading the TIPS thread. It's the translation thread devoted to various TIPS that you receive throughout the game - an aspect that is lacking in watching the anime, reading the manga, or listening to the drama CD. In there, you'll be able to read police transmission logs, notes taken during the investigation, etc. etc. which may answer your ponderings (and quite possibly open up more mysteries while at it too!).
thundrakkon
2006-05-02, 18:17
Thanks, KJ and Freakman. The TIPS thread did clear up some things and added quite a few questions, too.
I am going to read the General discussion and Theory thread and post my comments on the TIPS there later.
Not only that, but the gun disappears in the next sequence.
Mion's body is in the lower left corner.
Sorry, the picture is dark becuase it is a night time scene.
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4624/higurashiep4mion22av.th.jpg (http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=higurashiep4mion22av.jpg)
Well the same can be said about Renas finger bandage(?)
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8680/renamachete4oy.th.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=renamachete4oy.jpg)
Then later:
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/1930/renahold3le.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=renahold3le.jpg)
But I dont think it has any meaning, the animator just skipped that detail.
Azn_GooWakJai
2006-05-02, 18:50
Time to cut your losses, move on and try something else then. I hear the stories for Higurashi get more depressing later on.
Ehhh depressing as in a good ending or bad ending? Because its either depressin that its a let down or depressin as in the story wise in which it gets good.
Ehhh depressing as in a good ending or bad ending? Because its either depressin that its a let down or depressin as in the story wise in which it gets good.
The latter. It's so depressing, you probably won't be able to smile for at least a day or two.
rainnydaiis
2006-05-02, 22:11
I don't know if I am going to be able to watch anymore of this one. I hate Stephen King stories because the endings ALWAYS SUCK! I am the type that demands GOOD ENDINGS! I like to be entertained not horrified by a horrible ending. So can someone tell me now if this is a series that has a horrible ending? Their is alot of other anime out their that I can replace this one with because so far after this episode where what I thought was the main character is killed it feels too much like another stupid Stephen King type horror than anything else.. And I hate his stories.
I'm just happy you gave the anime a try. In my thoughts I think Stephen King was a genius in his own world because his stories kept you in a suspense which most books can't and even though the ending was crap as long as the story was good then to me thats all that matters...
As for this anime I think its the same because of the things that are happening so fast in the story it keeps you in a mood where you can't wait for the next turning point to emerge. Like this anime kept me wondering and wondering how it was going to turn out and I was a bit shocked on how the main character died in the 4th episode and I was like omg it can't be over... But it seems as if the anime has a different set of stories combined to make you figure out who that oyashirou-sama is...
It just keeps getting interesting and interesting ^^
But it seems as if the anime has a different set of stories combined to make you figure out who that oyashirou-sama is...
It's not really "a different set of stories" per se, think of it more as "the same story played out differently". There's only ONE story in Higurashi, and it's up to YOU to figure out WHY the scenarios are different from each other (ex. Onikakushi vs Watanagashi): That's right, there's an actual cause in each scenario for them to be different from each other (in other words, without that specific "cause", one scenario could've very well played out exactly the same as another) (example: If (certain event) didn't happen in (chapter name), the story could've very well played out exactly the same as (another chapter name))
All "chapters" (ex. Onikakushi, Watanagashi, Tatarigoroshi, and so on) all start at the same spot (besides a couple of exceptions that are clearly stated), and within each chapter, something caused that same single story to branch out into different developments and endings. What you need to find out is that "cause".
And the goal of the story is not "figuring out who Oyashisama is", nor is it even about "finding the true culprit" or "finding out the truth". The real goal is XXXXXXXXXXX (but to do that, you'd need to find out the truth anyway, so it's not that different I guess, at least for you lucky anime watchers who won't have to worry about Matsuribayashi ^^; )
[editted by kj1980: blanked out the real goal. I think it's better for the viewer's to find out what the real goal is as they struggle to put it all together. Besides, that's what made it interesting to us when we first played the game, right?]
FubaredByAnime
2006-05-02, 23:21
Sushi-Y, it really sounds like you're dying to tell everyone what's really going on. lol
Sushi-Y, it really sounds like you're dying to tell everyone what's really going on. lol
Really? No kidding?
I guess it's time to shut up then. :heh:
BrokenWingz
2006-05-03, 06:02
I watched this ep with my bro at around 1am, don't think i wanna do that again xD
During the part of where he 'clawed his neck' i didnt see anything but my bro insisted that there was a glimps of yellow before it blacked out and the only person i can think of with yellow 'hair' was the other little girl(and im not exactly sure if i were to classify Rena and Mion as loli, but the fansubber did state during the title of the ep, beware of the killer lolis)
So how did Rena and Mion get the sterynge, either it was his imagination or they got it from the 'doctor'.
I did find it intriging that the middle part of his letter dissapeared when they found it(which supposedly contained the part of him having evidence with the 'missing syringe') mainly because it was suppose to be hidden in a spot where very little people would search of for someone to do a very thorough search. That being said i'd assume that either 1- the girls actually could tell what he was doing inside his house(ie Rena knew what he was having for dinner) thus being able to tell their 'group where it was'.
2- Someone who did the search was involve and removed it carefully since it was a clean cut out and not just a rip.
3-he imagined the whole thing and most of the incidents.
Things to stand out to me
I dont think that they actually tried to attack him with the syringe because if they were really that murderous or followers of Oyashiro-sama, then how would he be able to overpower the two who had him in a grip in which he was struggle though that whole scene got blacked out.
After being attacked by the people in green he woke up with Rena and Mion beside him, i forgot if it was daytime but the after-incident it was night and that Rena was the only one following him.
Why would the two even think of bringing the bat inside his house if they told him the same day to stop practising with the bat.
Alot of this is jumble uped and seem to contridict each other so guess im more confused then before i typed this @@.
Time to read the tips thread :)
This is the first time a harem anime went from 0 to 1000X crazy insanity in only 4 episodes. And to think there are more intense ways of doing it for the next episodes. I was looking for the thread after coming back from Labor Day weekend, and then bam! it's got its own forum. Quality speaks for itself. Though of course as far as rewatchable, I'd say episodes 2 and 3. But the clues in ep 4 gets you thinking.
aliensporebomb
2006-05-03, 14:56
What I found very surprising was the juxtaposition of disturbing insanity
and then light-hearted fun anime goodtimes all within seconds of one
another.
Can you imagine if this was aired on american television?
There's absolutely nothing like it so I could see some surprising and
shocked reactions.
Pellissier
2006-05-03, 15:25
Heh, no shortcuts. As a total ignorant of the game/novels etc etc. I find this anime to be simply marvellous.
Basically because it belongs to one of my favourite branches, meaning the calm pace and narration hiding something deep and mysterious behind. And even more, I like how the most innocent-looking people can go suddenly insane.
I find very amazing to see the sweet and lovely Rena, and Mion, to go into Psycho mode, or even into Berserk mode. I like this kind of horror, more based on suspence and thrilling than on pure splatter (well, a bit of splatter was shown when Keichi devastated Rena and Mion's bodies in episode 4, but that was pretty much left at the imagination, we're far away from Elfen Lied brutal (and more disturbing) mode).
The construction:
It's good to see how the story was settled and built throughout just this 4 episodes. A very calm beginning, and then - little by little - the clues. Pieces of puzzles went together slowly, mysterious narrations, happenings and characters took place.
I loved how the tension increased, how Keichi's insanity went overboard, but also how the girls' teasing went overboard as well. That was just constructed plain nicely, and I loved it.
Not knowing anything, I didn't expect a sort of "end of round 1" at episode 4. Nor I would have expected to see Keichi escape from a sure death. The "monster" were supposed to be Rena and Mion, instead from executioners, they became victims.
But still, so many unsolved question. I'll keep them for myself, it will be tasty to (hopefully) get answers for them on next episodes.
The realization:
Props to Studio Deen which made so far an excellent work. The character design is kind of unique, very peculiar and unusual. But the details are great, and the psycho/crazy modes of the characters are depicted magnificently. You actually may happen to fall from your chair if you're very concentrated (sort of Shining alike , ^_^). If this happens, it's a great success, of the director, of the animation team, of all nevertheless.
Rena dubbed by one my favourite seiyuus (Nakahara Mai) is then a great plus for the series.
I also absolutely adore the musics. Especially the OP theme, which I find very fitting and intriguing. A tv sized version of it has already gone on my Ipod. I couldn't help it, May 24th (single release) is still too far :)
Enough for now, I have probably said cheap things for those living in Japan, or already knowing all that's behind this wonderful series. But that's all I could put together in four episodes, and now looking forward to the fifth to see how the story is gonna to restart, I really have no clues as for now, and I'm really glad of it, even though the wait is hard to bear ^^
As for single episode ratings I have given:
Episode 1: 8 - Introductory, a bit slow but showing the potentialities.
Episode 2: 9 - More pieces of puzzles to put together. And the pace from calm to scary is really short
Episode 3: 9 - The series becomes officially scary, and that great final, full of tension, with Rena at the door, is one of the best anime moments of this year.
Episode 4: 9 - Because it was unexpected and it took me by surprise. I'd liked to give 10 to it, but first I'd liked to understand what was going on. Ok, perfect rendering. But why? When I cannot understand something, because not enough clues have been sown, I don't feel like giving a "perfect" judgement.
That's it :)
Azn_GooWakJai
2006-05-03, 19:23
What I found very surprising was the juxtaposition of disturbing insanity
and then light-hearted fun anime goodtimes all within seconds of one
another.
Can you imagine if this was aired on american television?
There's absolutely nothing like it so I could see some surprising and
shocked reactions.
See this would be sumthing good to be put on in American TV shows and hopefully not cable cuz I dont have cable --_--" And sum TV shows that mystery series such as 24, Bone, and Prison Break are pretty good. Fox series has good action/mystery shows but compare to anime like Higurashi, they can't win.
FubaredByAnime
2006-05-03, 22:30
And the goal of the story is not "figuring out who Oyashisama is", nor is it even about "finding the true culprit" or "finding out the truth". The real goal is XXXXXXXXXXX (but to do that, you'd need to find out the truth anyway, so it's not that different I guess, at least for you lucky anime watchers who won't have to worry about Matsuribayashi ^^; )
[editted by kj1980: blanked out the real goal. I think it's better for the viewer's to find out what the real goal is as they struggle to put it all together. Besides, that's what made it interesting to us when we first played the game, right?]
Hahaha. Reading this made me laugh. I guess I'm one of the few who got to read the unedited version. Seriously, Sushi-Y, you did sound like you were dying to tell us.
Anyway, with all the hints flying around in the QA, speculation and Ep 4 threads, I think I have an idea of what's going on. For now, I'll be in the minority and say that something supernatural is going on.
Pellissier
2006-05-04, 00:34
Hahaha. Reading this made me laugh. I guess I'm one of the few who got to read the unedited version.
Shoot! I did read the "uncensored" version too, my bad :heh: . But it's my fault, I know I mustn't read anything about discussions etc. etc. on these kinds of boards, because spoilers are always the fee to pay to read them.
By the way, in defence of Sushi-Y, I don't consider that as an high voltage spoiler, I mean, what he said, if the anime will follow the speculation I'm doing, should be guessable quite soon anyways ;)
And as for the anime itself; yes, I too belong to the "oh, something must be wrong here" minority :heh:
Blue_Mercy
2006-05-04, 10:16
I just got into this series, and I have to say it is quickly turning into one of my favorites. I never knew little girls could at any moment turn into raging psychopaths who abuse drugs. I've got a few questions though.
1.Why wouldn't Keiichi have told Rena about the Oishi-san in episode 2 since he only said don't mention it to Mion?
2.Why was Rena spying on Keiichi when he was first visited by Oishi-san?
Spoiler for Shuffle!
3.Doesn't Keiichi's attitude in episode 4 when Rena shows up remind you of Kaede when she snapped in Shuffle?
Spoiler for Shuffle!
3.Doesn't Keiichi's attitude in episode 4 when Rena shows up remind you of Kaede when she snapped in Shuffle?
Technically, it's the other way around. Since the Higurashi no Naku Koroni doujin game came before SHUFFLE!, many otakus here were on 2ch boards that time saying that it was Kaede that went oyashiro-mode (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=501577&postcount=26). Besides, that was what the anime staff for SHUFFLE! was exactly aiming for - bringing out the eerieness in Kaede just like Rena.
Blue_Mercy
2006-05-04, 11:14
Either way I almost wish Keiichi had just given in and become one of them.
He took down two of my new favorite anime characters. How exactly did he break Rena's hold and where did the bat appear from?
Thewanderer
2006-05-04, 11:27
Either way I almost wish Keiichi had just given in and become one of them.
That'd actually have been far better, IMO. Why go aginst a group of cute widdle murderers instead of join them?
Xellos-_^
2006-05-04, 11:38
What I found very surprising was the juxtaposition of disturbing insanity
and then light-hearted fun anime goodtimes all within seconds of one
another.
Can you imagine if this was aired on american television?
There's absolutely nothing like it so I could see some surprising and
shocked reactions.
You could put something like this on american tv but the age of the characters would be older and it wouldn't be animated, it would be completely live action.
Thewanderer
2006-05-04, 11:50
You could put something like this on american tv but the age of the characters would be older and it wouldn't be animated, it would be completely live action.
Exactly. And show this to the standard american and it'd probably disgust them, and not because of the actual disgusting parts too, mind you. Americans don't have the concept of young kids being main characters in anything besides shows made for kids. They're so superficial.
(and I should know, as I'm american myself)
Xellos-_^
2006-05-04, 11:54
btw. anyone who is the first pyscho loli? I think school day came before Higurash which came before shuffle/fate. Was there any character like thses before School Days?
btw. anyone who is the first pyscho loli? I think school day came before Higurash which came before shuffle/fate. Was there any character like thses before School Days?
School Days is rather new, the game was released last year.
Both SHUFFLE! and Fate were released in January of 2004.
Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Onikakushi-hen was released back in Summer Comike 2002
Besides, Kaede wasn't that psychotic in the original ero-game.
btw. anyone who is the first pyscho loli? I think school day came before Higurash which came before shuffle/fate. Was there any character like thses before School Days?
And what makes you say Shuffle?
And don't even say Keade is a loli - and i wouldn't say Illya is pysho.
Xellos-_^
2006-05-04, 12:11
School Days is rather new, the game was released last year.
Both SHUFFLE! and Fate were released in January of 2004.
Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Onikakushi-hen was released back in Summer Comike 2002
I stand corrected.
AngelSama, how about pyscho girls. And i was thinking more of Sajura then Illya.
AngelSama, how about pyscho girls. And i was thinking more of Sajura then Illya.
If you said that instead of Loli, then it would make perfect sense.
Imaginary_num6er
2006-05-04, 12:52
Ok, I've been surfing the net and relized once again, that animesuki forums is the only serious place for series discussion. (That other place that starts with a 4 was a mistake.)
First of all, there are a few assumptions one needs to make before I give my asssumptions about the entire case in ep04. Remember, EVERY SCENE in the anime has a reason to it. Obviously, there are tons of Japanese websites dedictaed to this stuff.
Assumptions:
The true culprit is not the "Oyashiro-sama"
Assume, that the suspect is not one of the members of the club.
Assume what Keiichi expereinced was real, and not something of an intrinsic mental disorder
With that said, lets go look at some of the clues we have.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/imaginary_num6er/TIMEPARADOX.png
私、前原圭一は命を狙われています
なぜ、誰に、命を狙われているのかはわかりません。
ただひとつ判る事は、オヤシロさまの祟りと関係があるということです。
レナと魅音は犯人の一味。
他にも大人が４～５人以上。白いワゴン車を所有。
バラバラ殺人の被害者をもう一度よく調べてください。生きています。
富竹さんの死は未知の薬物によるもの。
証拠の注射器はこれです。
どうしてこんなことになったのか、私にはわかりません。
これをあなたが読んだなら、その時、私は死んでいるでしょう。 。
これを読んだあなた。どうか真相を暴いてください。それだけが私の望みです。
前原圭一
(Tled)
I, Maebara Keiichi, am in danger of being killed.
Why, and who, wants my life, I do not know.
The one thing I do know is that it has something to do with the Oyashiro-sama's curse. Rena and Mion were part of the criminal ring. Also, four to five or more adults own a white van.
Look at the victims of the dismembered killings once more. [They/he/she] is/are alive. Tomitake-san's death is due to an unknown drug. This is the syringe as evidence.
How things became like this, I do not know.
If you are reading this, by that time I would be already dead.
To whomever reading this, please uncover the truth.
Maebara Keiichi
Possible suspects:
Keiichi's parents: They could have searched his room before or after the killing. (To have it be before, you have to assume what he wrote the full text before.)
The "director" and others: Definatly possible since they didn't go after Keiichi despite owning a van and having 4-5 people. Probably during the time Keiichi ran, they searched the house.
Rena or Mion: Assuming that one of them was alive, and was able to see Keiichi hiding the memo and syringe in the clock.
Some 3rd person: In ep03, the window on the first floor and the 2nd were both open despite K1 closing them before. Assuming that someone hid into the house while he was not looking, they could most-certainly see where he hid the note later on. If the syringe was indeed something that's non-lethal like a tranquilizer, the 3rd person could have killed Mion and Rena during Keiichi's sleep, and make him think that it was he, who killed them.
Now, the fact that the suspect didn't take the entire paper and took only certain parts further limits the possibilites, since the suspect wanted to leave some parts of the message, and others out:
"Look at the victims of the dismembered killings once more": Obviously, the person that got lynched would not be alive, but this also includes vicimts of the subsequent killings and the such. Therefore, the culprit is someone invovled in the previous dissaperences/killings.
"This is the syringe as evidence": Now, any culprit would not want the syringe to be left as evidence to avoid it from being a simple Oyashiro-sama's curse case, but the main question is: Who could have get the syringe in the first place?
Considering these two facts, and assuming that it is none of the club members, there is only a few people who could do this:
The Director and his men: reasons as before.
Takano-san: Although she dissapered in ep02, if she was indeed alive after her dissaperence, it would make her a very potential suspect or an accomplice. In ep03, Keiichi discovers that Takano-san was a nurse working at the same hospital where the doctor who gave the flu shot worked at. Also, since she was near Tomitake-san before he died, she could also be responcible of his death.
There are generally two theories, one of which it contained some kind of psychiatric drug/poision, while the other is that it contained something else. Assuming Mion didn't intend to kill Keiichi, it would have to be the latter.
As for the possibilites, it was either a tranquilizer or depressant. There a a number of reason why Mion would not necessarly intend to kill Keiichi.
1. The Ohagi incident:
The needle was contained in the nice-looking Ohagi, compared to the others. If you think about the types of games Mion and others played at the club, its hard to think that the intended clue would be in the nice-looking one. Also, in ep04, Mion was suprised about what Keiichi said about the Ohagi. This is probably because the needle was not really intentional.
2. Whispering during K1's sleep in ep02:
Mion and Rena were talking about a dissaperence after the Watanagshi Festival, but didn't talk anything about Tomitake-san's death. Wouldn't it be weird if Rena and Mion were the same criminal ring as the "director", to not be informed of the details beforehand?
3. Keiichi's Mental state:
At ep03, Keiichi recieves a "flu shot" by a doctor. Now, usually in Japan, they don't give "flue shots" to help get over a cold. Therefore, if the shot contained some kind of psychiatric drug, it would explain why Mion and Rena had a huge difference in what they said in the "Higurashi mode" (hallucination) and in normal mode. Mion and Rena probably were very scared, and by the help of a doctor, they were able to get a syringe that was suppose to be a depressent or tranquilizer (ie. Rena's previous medical conditions). Now, despite their intentions, the syringe might contain something different though.
-Keiichi's death: The first mystery is that he called Ooishi-san on the public line when he could have used the free emergency line on the public phone? In addition, the line seemed to have ended due to the lack of coins, and Keiichi knew Ooishi-san's phone number and remebered to bring enough coins despite being pursued. Why? The second mystery is how Keiichi's killings resemble Rena's behavior in her previous school. Broken windows = Broken walls and shoebox with a bat, suspecion of friends trying to kill him, and Oyashiro-sama being behind them.
-Who is the "director":
At first, one might think the "director" was Oyashiro-sama himself, but you would see in this scene: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/imaginary_num6er/Director.png
That the person in the labcoat is probably the "director" and also a doctor. Personally, I think the whole incident was a coup by Takano-san and the "director."
Who is the "director":
At first, one might think the "director" was Oyashiro-sama himself, but you would see in this scene: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v244/imaginary_num6er/Director.png
That the person in the labcoat is probably the "director" and also a doctor. Personally, I think the whole incident was a coup by Takano-san and the "director."
Think of other homonyms/synonyms of the word "kantoku" in Japanese. The word "kantoku" can mean a lot of things, you know?
If I were the translator, I wouldn't translate "kantoku" in this sense as "the director." I would use the word...."the manager." What kind of managers are there? It important to keep that in mind as we get to Tatarigoroshi-hen. By the time we get there, "the director" translation will make no complete sense as opposed to "the manager" translation.
Blue_Mercy
2006-05-04, 14:59
I think Mion was surprised about the needle in the ohagi because she wasn't involved in making it. Rena and her grandmother made it and the one with the needle was the "special" one that Rena prepared.
What I'm not sure about is whether or not Mion actually injected Keiichi?
FubaredByAnime
2006-05-04, 15:18
I would use the word...."the manager."
Ah, so that's why Mion makes the swinging bat or playing baseball (can't remember) comment in his room before he goes ******* on them. That makes more sense now.
I guess it's the manager for the killer loli baseball team. :D
Freakman
2006-05-04, 15:52
To Imaginary Number, about your theories about Keiichi's parents, here's a piece of info from the game that wasn't given in the anime :
In the game, Keiichi tells his mother something in the event he were to die / disappear. I can't remember the details exactly, but he pretty much gives away the fact that he hid something in his clock (or at least in his room).
If (She) usually hangs out around the dump, where also a murder(?) also took place, possible may be that (She) may be an witness to the event.
(Detective) working what appears to be solo, starts prodding around some boy whom doesn't appear to be related in any way to the past events.
(She) near the end gives strong warning to the boy for the boy to drop his own investigation into the matter.
Guy with camera killed. Killed probably related to his photography work. Also seen by dump site at times.
-Detective using boy to get to (She)?
-What happened to the previous year student, -Friend of (She)?
-If (She) is a major witness, then why (She) not go to authorities?
--(She) = Murder relation ... Or ... (Detective) = Murder relation
===End of Episode 2===
(Detective) is investigating the girls.
(Girls) appear to know nothing about the boy's lunch with the detective. Appear to be doing a shake-up to get around the deception.
~Tainted food (Sewing Needle). By Rena, or by the grandmother?
===End of Episode 3===
Jesus Christ...
===End of Episode 4===
Many questions,.. many dots -beyond the general stuff. But one thing that appears for certain, replay value in the end will be most high.
Imaginary_num6er
2006-05-04, 19:40
To Imaginary Number, about your theories about Keiichi's parents, here's a piece of info from the game that wasn't given in the anime :
In the game, Keiichi tells his mother something in the event he were to die / disappear. I can't remember the details exactly, but he pretty much gives away the fact that he hid something in his clock (or at least in his room).
It seems like in the game:
Keiichi tells his parents to bury the clock with him in his coffin.
Yeah, since that wasn't in the anime, I only limited the possibility of his parents being involved to just speculation. The final letter Keiichi write is a little different from the game, but its very insignificant.
Yeah, this arc definitely plays with your mind. But I have some questions/ thoughts after reading the TIPS for the 1st chapter.
1. There is some segregation of the student population. Some students are in the school in another town and others remain in that village. Could this also be due to those likely to be affected by the curse? Those likely to be affected are kept in town and those of low risk can go out of town. Rena went outside and destroyed another school and injured people and then came back and is stable. Could there also be something in that environment or medication in that village that stablilzes those prone to the curse?
2. What if Keiichi was being injected with a stabilizer or cure and the shortness of breath was a reaction to the medicine, you know tracheal swelling , with the clawing an attempt for him to open his airway? In ep. 3, he was slightly paranoid and went to the doctor and given a shot for a cold and became better with a flare when he was talking to Oishi and after the ohagi incident. In the last episode, he was having full blown paranoid delusions before the injection. best exemplified with the bat swinging at the school. They were worried about him since Satoshi was acting like him and went missing and decided to give him a "cure". At that point, he isn't thinking too clearly, hears "director". Attempts at restraining fail and he acts like Lil' Slugger. Medication takes hold, has a sane moment and writes a last note. Makes it to phone booth, calls Oishi and then side effects start. *Cue gross sound effects.*
3. You guys were mentioning triggers. I think that they were multiple triggers reinforcing each other to put him over the brink. I think that the first trigger was the coverup of the newpaper article about the dam murder by his friends. Then came Oishi who continued to rot away his confidence in his friends and his environment by telling him facts that he can't verify because he can't discuss it with anyone in the village. This probably weakend his grasp of his environment and continued his downward spiral. Oishi was considered an agent of Oyashira-sama in one of the TIPS.
So, am I on the right path?
Well it's not my cup of tea so to speak.. But I will probably read the threads on it to find out what was going on. But the one piece that makes absolutely no sense except to trigger it would of been the photographer. First of all did anyone see the body? Secondly their was no reason at all for him to tell about the murder that would get him started into investigating and nothing suspicious would of happened. So no matter what the real cause of his whole downfall is the photographer.
I imagine the photographer is the entire key to everything. If he never met the photographer he wouldn't of heard of the story. If he didn't hear the story their would of been nothing to feed his dillusions. If he didn't have delusions he wouldn't have been investigating.. If he didn't investigate he would of never suspected the girls of anything.
After all the girls didn't really start getting weird on him until he got to suspecting them and than they started acting weird on him. It's almost as if they knew that if he suspected something than he would disappear or die next. After all they watched the same thing happen to (forget name was it satoshi?) well anyways you get the point. So EVERYTHING began with the photographer that is the one undeniable fact. Secondly he knew they were at the dumps for old newspaper to be laying around to be found near the top after 4 years is not a believable incident meaning they had to be planted for him to find.
Well it's not my cup of tea so to speak.. But I will probably read the threads on it to find out what was going on. But the one piece that makes absolutely no sense except to trigger it would of been the photographer. First of all did anyone see the body? Secondly their was no reason at all for him to tell about the murder that would get him started into investigating and nothing suspicious would of happened. So no matter what the real cause of his whole downfall is the photographer.
Well, the TIPS section did mention that...
the body was dismembered with the killers each being given a piece to hide. The last arm couldn't be found because the last killer who has the last piece is missing.
Also...
Keiichi did make a joke in episode 1 that brought out the comment by the photographer about the murder.
(Transcript via fansub translation.)
Tomitake:"Oh, you had a friend with you. What's she doing there?"
Keiichi: "Who knows? Maybe she's checking out the corpse she chopped up."
Tomitake: "It was a horrible crime. I hear they still haven't found one of the arms."
Keiichi:" What did you....."
Yeah, an intact 4 year old newspaper at an open air dump with the murder in it is suspicious for being a plant.
About the letter his wrote, related to ep 3
Someone mentioned that he'd written ahead of the script. i.e. he wrote the part about having the syringe in ep 3 before it occurred in ep 4. Is this a goof by the animators, or is this intentional? If intentional, then this is pretty important.
Freakman
2006-05-08, 07:39
You can safely assume it's a mistake.
Ugguuuu:( I just saw eps. 1-4 and I feel so sorry for Rena...
The saddest part...She never got that mannequin out of the garbage dump...uugh Rena chan :sad:
And on top of that she got her fingers crushed, ouch, standing in the rain apologising again and again:sad:
And when she made a pass at him, saying she would listen to him and save, and propably just wanted a kiss... what did he do? nothing. Poor Rena went crazy and got pushed down on the ground uuugghhh:sad:
And she ended up getting the baseball bat......hidoi:upset:
Rena chan is so moeee... If it wasn't because I already :fear:&:heart: Kaede, I would probably break down and surrender if a Rena would ever approached me in her higurashi mode....:fear:
FubaredByAnime
2006-05-24, 23:03
Just watched parts of Ayu's version of ep 4 to check out difference in translation, such as using word "manager" instead of Wind's choice word of "director". But here's the thing I noticed that I wanted to mention for those who were interested.
Keiichi's last words are translated: "Don't come ..."
This series it great. I'm one of those "closet" anime watchers (will never admit it to their friends, never discusses it, even online ;P). I only read posts on this forum AFTER I've completed a series to prevent reading spoilers cause some people jstu can't control themselves but post them anyway. This series is really unique though, so I'm willing to make an exception here
I've only seen up to episode 4, I haven't read any of the tips or any posts here... Perhaps the same thoughts have been speculated by others. I might even be WAAAY off. I just wanna get my thoughts down so I can look back later at the discussion or revise it as I continue watching
It seems like most of it is a delusional trip, with perhaps oyashiro-sama being the name of the disease or whatever it is. There's a lot that points to it being part delusion. I'm nto willing to go backwards to check (cause I wanna keep going forward after this) but for episode 4, if you strip a lot of the emotion out of the dialogues, it seems as if Keiichi's friends are trying to help him, such as the dialogue between Rena and Keiichi starting at 10:10 to 12:20. I'm sure there are more instances like that in earlier episodes, but it didn't occur to me that it could be a delusion until the beginning scene with Rena. If Rena really had her fingers slammed at the beginning of the episode, I would think there would be some reaction the next day when she sees him swinging the bat. Instead, she's holding her bag perfectly fine at 6:26 and walks right past him.
I'm starting most of my assumptions from there. I really can't figure out an explanation for everything else jsut yet, but it seems like the town is in on it. The doctor (shots for a cold? and he was called to the house...), the police, and the guys in vans all appear to be some sort of containment crew. Maybe he was only afflicted after learning about it, like an intense paranoia disease (something along the lines of Paranoia Agent and Shonen Bat). Keiichi only started going crazy after learning about it. The past murders may have been committed by those who were "spirited away" but really killed themselves liek Keiichi did and was later covered up. That would include Satoshi, and even the photographer. No mention of him ever came up among everyone. Only Keiichi and the police guy knew.
I can't really figure out the other kids' roles in this but it seems like the anime is gonna go into that. I was thinking maybe Rena had been afflicted but recovered?
Actually, the more I write down, the less I feel like I can explain everything else. What a series! ;P I hope I got some of it right though... I really can't wait until it's over so I can read everything that's been posted and find out I'm completley wrong... must... control... self =p
I just began episode 5 and I'm completely confused. I'm assuming this is gonan do Mion's POV?
Another edit... is there a post with all the answers? cause I really don't want to stay speculating after the series is over. I'll never sleep at night =(
Another edit... is there a post with all the answers? cause I really don't want to stay speculating after the series is over. I'll never sleep at night =(
No and no one intends to (even if they did, that post will be deleted promptly). But as I said in the wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni), there are two answer chapters coming later to answer Watanagashi-hen and Onikakushi-hen. Along with other chapters, you can gain hints and clues to the previous chapters. Also, feel free to utilize the TIPS section (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31732) of this thread for each corresponding episode to obtain valuable information.
Just went and watched ep 1-4. Hmm I already got the feeling that from ep 1, that keiichi is a goner, but didnt noe it will be so soon...
I probably guessing it is some government psychological experiment, but I wont fry my brain cells thinking about it. My guts say the building of the dam was intended as some trigger point.
I simply love it when rena's eyes goes orge! She looks so cute!
madlobster
2006-06-08, 23:49
Ugguuuu:( I just saw eps. 1-4 and I feel so sorry for Rena...
The saddest part...She never got that mannequin out of the garbage dump...uugh Rena chan :sad:
I understand everything now. The murder over the dam has nothing to do with it, the whole thing was caused by the death 2.5 years prior of
Harland David Sanders
Li Jianliang
2006-06-09, 01:45
Yeah, an intact 4 year old newspaper at an open air dump with the murder in it is suspicious for being a plant.
Not really. Newpaper in dumps can survive for decades. From the looks of the Hinamizawa dump site, villagers pretty much leave the place alone except to dump more garbage around the edge.
I understand everything now. The murder over the dam has nothing to do with it, the whole thing was caused by the death 2.5 years prior of
Harland David Sanders
Ehee^^;;
I don't know what you are talking about, is the mannequin part of the plot? I only thought about it because I remembered Rena wanted it so much:eyespin:
And who is
Harland David Sanders?
*is clueless of any advanced plot theories*
madlobster
2006-06-09, 17:01
And who is
Harland David Sanders?
*is clueless of any advanced plot theories*
From Wikipedia:
Harland David Sanders, better known as Colonel Sanders (September 9, 1890 – December 16, 1980) was the founder of Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC). His picture appears on their boxes to this day, and a stylized graphic of his face is a trademark of the corporation.
More proof:
Rearrange the letters in
I say, Harland David Sanders cooks my oh-so-tasty chicken!
you get
Oyashisama achieved dry throat skin sans clocks, Noddy.
Now Noddy's involved?! Will the conspiracy never end?! :upset:
More proof:
Rearrange the letters in
I say, Harland David Sanders cooks my oh-so-tasty chicken!
you get
Oyashisama achieved dry throat skin sans clocks, Noddy.
Now Noddy's involved?! Will the conspiracy never end?! :upset:
*fears noddy*
That's amazing display of highlevel detectiveness:heh:
I'm sure Rena would have been proud of you:p
I wonder what all of this could mean....uuuhh the plot thickens:(*also fears all the conspiracies*:upset:
But I still fear Rena even more:love:
LordKickass
2006-07-08, 00:19
Well well well. It seems some interesting theories have begun to develop after reading through every post in this thread. Other than what has already been said, the only thing that I have to add to this conversation is this.
Soley based on the hints given to us by those who have played the game, i'm almost 99% sure that Rena and Mion were innocent. I've heard several times that once you start getting more and more answers, that this chapter becomes more of a tragedy than a murder mystery. This leads me to believe that someone outside the group of friend's is the one pulling the strings. If you believe in the drug/disease/government conspiracy theory, then it's quite possible that Mion and Rena we're trying to help Keichi from the beggining of it all but he had fallen into such a state of dementia that his paranoia led him to suspect them as the ones out to get him. Ultimately, he ends up killing the only people who could've helped him and taking his own life.
As to the "trigger point" that brought him down that road..... I honestly have no clue.
FatPianoBoy
2006-07-08, 00:46
As to the "trigger point" that brought him down that road..... I honestly have no clue.
Probably the needle in the rice ball. Everything was downhill from there.
I'm pretty favorable to the external influence idea for many more reason outside this arch, but one thing doesn't make sense if that's the case, and that's Rena's ginormous cleaver. Unless she lives in a butcher shop or something, I can't see why she'd have something like in her posession :uhoh:
Not saying you're wrong. I think you're right, but this little issue is still a bit of a snag for the theory.
Wanderer
2006-07-18, 22:15
I don't think Rena was carrying a cleaver in that scene, K1 was just seeing things. I think that since Rena had already scarred him before with the cleaver that his paranoid dilusional mind put it there (maybe its really just a school bag or something).
In that scene Rena was trying her hardest to help K1. If you take away all the weird and distorted camera shots and the creepy voice and just pay attention to the dialogue, it seems really normal.
Also, the needle scene was a symptom of K1's insanity, not a cause. There was no needle. With the (also distorted) dialogue he just had with the girls before, he was expecting something like that
1) He manages to find the needle in one small bite.
2) There's no blood.
3) It is gone when Ooshi asks for it as evidence.
Though, it is true it is the first scene that he is completely bonkers.
herculysse
2006-12-28, 03:49
Few days later than the day I watched ep4,
suddenly, I understood WHAT Oyashiro-sama is.
Possibly, I'm hearing the footsteps too.:(
Just watched this arc.
It's obvious that the cop Oishi is the main criminal who with the help of some friends drives Keichi into panic/madness and makes him go on a killing spree.
The main evidence is the way he keeps supplying Keichi with more and more
scary bits of desinformation. I wonder hom much of his story was a lie...
From what I've read in this thread, he might have used some drugs too.
He can easily remove evidence from the scene of crime.
Motivation - we've been shown that he has some past with Mion (she was saying "I should've killed him", etc.) so this all was to remove former accomplices.
...If only Keichi had the presense of mind to understand that his friends never had a reason to kill him to begin with - he doesn't know anything that the cop doesn't know!, to understand that he was being used.
Just watched this arc.
It's obvious that the cop Oishi is the main criminal who with the help of some friends drives Keichi into panic/madness and makes him go on a killing spree.
There's actually a rumor in Hinamizawa that Oishi is the harbinger of Oyashiro-sama's curse (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=549464&postcount=19).
Ok so here's what I don't get...Can somebody PLEASE answer it?
I really don't get what happened from the "punishment game" to the part where Keiichi died. Mion was holding a syringe, and held his arm out to inject that mystery drug into him. So obviously they weren't going to paint his face and he 'imagined' a syringe instead of a paintbrush, otherwise why would she hold his arm out.
Also, did Mion even inject that stuff inside him? I'm not even sure if he even got free, because Rena was holding him down, and he did try to get free but she was obviously holding him down with ease. So how could he break free and get his bat at the moment when he was going to be (or was) injected with the drug?
A few more questions, if you can answer them...
What the heck was in the syringe? I really think that it played a large role in Keiichi's death. After all, he remembered a dead suspect who died of a mystery drug right before Mion injected (or was going to inject) that stuff into him. I really don't think it's a coincidence that both Keiichi and that suspect died of the same drug. So, what was in it? Obviously not water, because if it was, he wouldn't have groped his throat causing that so-called suicide.
What the heck were those guys in the green suits doing there? Why did he get knocked out and then handed over to Rena and Mion? And that leads me to my final questions, why didn't Rena and Mion just inject that stuff into him while he was lying there asleep after he took that bat to the head? Wouldn't that have been much easier than to wait until he wakes up and then do it while he's struggling? Also, what were Mion's and Rena's true intentions when they did what they did (or try to do) to Keiichi? Why did they want him to be injected with that drug? It seams to me that there is some sort of demon involved, and it controls the people of the village without their knowledge, and they have no memory of it...Where as Keiichi is the victim, and the Cop is just trying to find out who's behind the murders.
Nabiki Asakura
2008-07-08, 18:21
I'll not answer all, but you just started Higurashi now or you already watched Higurashi + Higurashi Kai and you're just asking? Because, if you started now, it's no good if people explain this things to you XD
Ok so here's what I don't get...Can somebody PLEASE answer it?
So obviously they weren't going to paint his face and he 'imagined' a syringe instead of a paintbrush, otherwise why would she hold his arm out.
because they were going to paint his ARM :cool:
Dante of the Inferno
2008-07-09, 10:41
Ok so here's what I don't get...Can somebody PLEASE answer it?
I really don't get what happened from the "punishment game" to the part where Keiichi died. Mion was holding a syringe, and held his arm out to inject that mystery drug into him. So obviously they weren't going to paint his face and he 'imagined' a syringe instead of a paintbrush, otherwise why would she hold his arm out.
Also, did Mion even inject that stuff inside him? I'm not even sure if he even got free, because Rena was holding him down, and he did try to get free but she was obviously holding him down with ease. So how could he break free and get his bat at the moment when he was going to be (or was) injected with the drug?
A few more questions, if you can answer them...
What the heck was in the syringe? I really think that it played a large role in Keiichi's death. After all, he remembered a dead suspect who died of a mystery drug right before Mion injected (or was going to inject) that stuff into him. I really don't think it's a coincidence that both Keiichi and that suspect died of the same drug. So, what was in it? Obviously not water, because if it was, he wouldn't have groped his throat causing that so-called suicide.
What the heck were those guys in the green suits doing there? Why did he get knocked out and then handed over to Rena and Mion? And that leads me to my final questions, why didn't Rena and Mion just inject that stuff into him while he was lying there asleep after he took that bat to the head? Wouldn't that have been much easier than to wait until he wakes up and then do it while he's struggling? Also, what were Mion's and Rena's true intentions when they did what they did (or try to do) to Keiichi? Why did they want him to be injected with that drug? It seams to me that there is some sort of demon involved, and it controls the people of the village without their knowledge, and they have no memory of it...Where as Keiichi is the victim, and the Cop is just trying to find out who's behind the murders.
As of yet, all of your assumptions are wrong, save for one. Furthermore, if you think the ending of episode 4 was confusing, wait until the first 2 minutes of episode 5.
Every puzzle has its pieces.
[QUOTE=Dante of the Inferno;1715152]As of yet, all of your assumptions are wrong, save for one. Furthermore, if you think the ending of episode 4 was confusing, wait until the first 2 minutes of episode 5.
well all i have to say is
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.