View Full Version : Utawarerumono Episode 6 Discussion / Poll
Catgirls
2006-05-08, 08:50
Welcome to the discussion thread for Utawarerumono, Episode 6.
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Man, that roving "merchant" sure has a higher pitched voice than what I was expecting, yes. I think the battle scenes in this episode were pretty well done, as it showed that war isn't just some one sided happy-go-lucky event. And it's also nicely shown that Inkara is as spineless as his brother. I think it would help if he had read up on some French history ;o
Srin Tuar
2006-05-08, 21:39
Hakuoro still loses just about every fight he gets into.
I don't quite understand how he became the king of this rebellion.
I guess being quiet and even tempered goes a long way.
If anyone could figure out what that dildonic the assasin showed to eruru was was suppossed to be? All I could tell was that it was some sortof performance enhancing
drug from a sea-creature called a "herapetta" ... or something like that...
Oh that,
If I remember that game summary correctly, it's a drug that enhances performance during....ehem....;)
And Hakuoro isn't leader because he can fight well but because he can use his head and has the charisma to bring people together.
The #1 quality to any great leader is always charisma.
Onizuka-GTO
2006-05-08, 22:29
Hakuoro still loses just about every fight he gets into.
I don't quite understand how he became the king of this rebellion.
I guess being quiet and even tempered goes a long way.
If anyone could figure out what that dildonic the assasin showed to eruru was was suppossed to be? All I could tell was that it was some sortof performance enhancing
drug from a sea-creature called a "herapetta" ... or something like that...
one does not have to be great warrior to be a great leader.
;)
Hakuoro did fight against one of the most skilled warrior in the domain with inferior weapon (halberd against a fan...) while on horseback, or whatever they call that thing.
Being a leader does not mean you're the strongest in arms. Heck, even though he might have lost a one-on-one duel, he still won the battle with his tactics, so he's still a winner.
In fact, his choice of weapon (the fan) reminds me strongly of Zhuge Liang from the Romance of the Three Kingdoms. The fan defines Hakuoro's character as a leader and strategist rather than a front-line warrior.
Daniel E.
2006-05-09, 03:45
Here are some screencaps (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/?p=813&cp=2#comments) courtesy of the Random Curiosity blog.
Remember, this link spoils the whole episode. ;)
bento-cube
2006-05-09, 05:26
Hakuoro did fight against one of the most skilled warrior in the domain with inferior weapon (halberd against a fan...) while on horseback, or whatever they call that thing.
I don't agree here. The fan was still Hakuoro's weapon of choice. It's not considered inferior if you're skilled with a weapon of your choosing.
Again, I don't pity Benawi his position right now. It's a typical case of a competent commander under an incompetent ruler. Poor guy. Wonder how he can take so much abuse and misunderstanding.
Hakuoro was still at a disadvantage because Benawi was mounted, but anyway Hakuoro isn't at his full potential yet. Even Benawi speculated this.
Onizuka-GTO
2006-05-09, 09:41
oh well, shame about Benawi, but i sisn't understand the bit when the victoriest men came back to the women. and poor Eruruu didnt do what all the other women did and ran up to greet their men. she just stood back and gaze sadly at him.... :confused:
*doesn't understand Fox-women hearts*
WHHHY?! poor Eruruu... :upset:
Daniel E.
2006-05-09, 11:22
I don't agree here. The fan was still Hakuoro's weapon of choice. It's not considered inferior if you're skilled with a weapon of your choosing.
Again, I don't pity Benawi his position right now. It's a typical case of a competent commander under an incompetent ruler. Poor guy. Wonder how he can take so much abuse and misunderstanding.
I wonder if he has ever heard the old saying:
Good soldiers follow orders......
Great soldiers know when to ignore them.
I think Benawi is seriously thinking in becoming a part of the 'Great' group. :D
Xellos-_^
2006-05-09, 12:46
I wonder if he has ever heard the old saying:
Good soldiers follow orders......
Great soldiers know when to ignore them.
I think Benawi is seriously thinking in becoming a part of the 'Great' group. :D
His man will probably spring him form prison and his group will chase and then get rescue by hakurou.
I don't agree here. The fan was still Hakuoro's weapon of choice. It's not considered inferior if you're skilled with a weapon of your choosing.
Again, I don't pity Benawi his position right now. It's a typical case of a competent commander under an incompetent ruler. Poor guy. Wonder how he can take so much abuse and misunderstanding.
Weapon of choice doesn't really change the physics of things. Benawi was using weapon with greater power with longer reach while mounted. That means he had advantages in just about every field. He had better height to strike from while having greater range. The best weapon to use against a mounted fighter is either with bows and arrows or with a long spear; take them down outside of their weapon's range. Hakuoro's weapon isn't really much of a weapon at all, and could really be used for defense against the kind of weapon Benawi was using.
oh well, shame about Benawi, but i sisn't understand the bit when the victoriest men came back to the women. and poor Eruruu didnt do what all the other women did and ran up to greet their men. she just stood back and gaze sadly at him.... :confused:
*doesn't understand Fox-women hearts*
WHHHY?! poor Eruruu... :upset:
Eruruu is stuck smack in the middle of "the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few or the one" ... though she hasn't explicitly said so, it seems pretty obvious she wanted to continue a quiet life at the side of Hakuoro doing quiet village things. The more this vortex of rebellion stirs up, the less she sees of Hakuoro - who is essentially neglecting her and Aruruu (who have just lost their grandma and mentor) in favor of the greater needs of the people.
Eruruu is caught being distraught at not having Hakuoro to herself and pissed at him for making decisions that keep leaving her alone. .... course, she also hasn't spoken up about her true feelings, leaving Hakuoro the typically oblivious guy. always a two way street of opportunities missed...
Its a tragic situation and gets played out over and over in history and on a daily basis in the real world now.
Onizuka-GTO
2006-05-09, 14:52
oh well, ignorance is bliss.... :rolleyes:
*feels like he's missing something inportant*
mmm....naaa..
:)
Xellos-_^
2006-05-09, 15:19
As much as i like utamarerumono, I feel that fat incompentant rulers are too cliche in anime. Would anyone else like to have seen a CaoCao type villian instead.
KBTKaiser
2006-05-09, 15:30
*remembers through the game*
Be careful of what you wish for. >>;
My main problem with the baddies is that they look like old washed up disco-maniacs from the 70s who bought into the Pastry Diet. They're so out of step with the other character designs its hard to take them seriously --- tongue-slobbering over Oboro like he was Jabba the Hut eyeing Princess Leia, heh.
Onizuka-GTO
2006-05-09, 16:03
know what you mean, kinda hard to take an enemy serious when he's wearing an afro... meh. :D
bento-cube
2006-05-09, 19:16
Maybe I'm an idiot sentimentalist who likes to think that weaponskill is enough to make up for any disadvantage. ^^;
But the resemblence to Jabba the Hutt...QFT.
Reminds me of that Indiana Jones bit, where some guy shows off his weapon skill (think it was nunchuks?) then Indy just shoots him. I'd say that was a good example of weapon advantage vs skill. :P
Catgirls
2006-05-09, 19:26
(think it was nunchuks?)It was a sword (a large one at that).
kari-no-sugata
2006-05-10, 06:58
know what you mean, kinda hard to take an enemy serious when he's wearing an afro... meh. :D
On the other hand, it makes it seem less surprising when they go down so quickly. From the trailer for the next ep, looks like the fat useless rulers will be out of the picture soon - after that, I guess we'll have a bit of peace before other countries decide to get annoying. There seems to be wars going on elsewhere after all.
USCPharmacist
2006-05-10, 13:19
As much as i like utamarerumono, I feel that fat incompentant rulers are too cliche in anime. Would anyone else like to have seen a CaoCao type villian instead.
2 words, mid boss. Ok I never played the game but he spells mid boss all over his face. I assume Darth Vadar will show his face soon....who knows maybe masked dude is Darth Vadar sin memories....oh shit.:heh:
Onizuka-GTO
2006-05-10, 18:45
yeah, we all know big mecha chickens are the real big level up bosses! Big Mecha chickens > Darth Vader
Mukuru > Big Mecha Chickens
:D
benaui was sent to jail? kill the fatty! oh! and the fact the twins are taking interest in those jewelries, make it seems very doubtful what their gender is :heh:
yet another entertaining episode. It never fails me =)
something puzzled me, where did they get extra food? I mean... the mukuru ate all or at least most of the remainings right?
I got feeling Benawi is going to join Hakuoro's squad or at least ally with his in the latter episode. Anyone playing game can confirm that? :P
the weapon used to break the wall look like a big pencil =D
KBTKaiser
2006-05-12, 10:47
Yep, Benawi and Kurou join Hakuoro's group after Hakuoro basically beats them all the way back to the capital. There, Benawi asks what the citizens of the country mean to the emperor and got the wrong response, thus taking action and killing him personally.
Please note that the above spoiler will probably cover maybe 2-3 eps worth of plot. You have been warned.
Yep, Benawi and Kurou join Hakuoro's group after Hakuoro basically beats them all the way back to the capital. There, Benawi asks what the citizens of the country mean to the emperor and got the wrong response, thus taking action and killing him personally.
Please note that the above spoiler will probably cover maybe 2-3 eps worth of plot. You have been warned.
Hakuoro is just racking the most powerful ppls everywhere. If it's going to continue like that, he's gonna own all the l337 ppls and take over the world...:heh:
Daniel E.
2006-05-12, 11:36
ouch!! Another episode release that caughts me off guard. :(
It's gonna be a long wait today, that's for sure. :heh:
Drytchnath
2006-05-12, 12:12
benaui was sent to jail? kill the fatty! oh! and the fact the twins are taking interest in those jewelries, make it seems very doubtful what their gender is :heh:
Huh? I thought the twins were girls??? Did i fall into the androgynous anime trap?
Xellos-_^
2006-05-12, 12:52
Huh? I thought the twins were girls??? Did i fall into the androgynous anime trap?
You and everyone else :p
No one knows in anime what the gender for the twins are.
We need to turn this into a guessing about what gender the twins are :p
You and everyone else :p
No one knows in anime what the gender for the twins are.
We need to turn this into a guessing about what gender the twins are :p
like a bet? :heh: anyway, im sure the makers are enjoying this....making the fans guess like crazy :heh:
Its good to see that the series is running at a good speed - even better that its going to be 26 episodes.
You just gotta feel sorry for Eruruu - i wonder when'll get to see her more of her feelings shown for Hakuoro.. it better not be something that goes into a back story. >_>
& i really can't wait to see Benawi kick some serious arse.
KBTKaiser
2006-05-12, 14:50
problem is, at this pace, we're gonna have a filler antic eps. Not that it's a bad thing as there's plenty of hilarity outside battle.
Mmm... I'm tempted to talk in FE-speak (Fire Emblem) here... Well, it's a general rule in FE that your first enemies are Pirates/Bandits/Mountain Thieves. Here, you have something similar - fat incompetent tyrants. You gotta feel sorry for the faceless soldiers who are paid to follow orders without question.
Benawi and Hakuoro (Steel Zhuge-Liang FAN!!!!)... I look forward to seeing what competent enemies they face to match their combined Leadership powers once they do join up as indicated by the OP.
Yuzuha's developed a psychically good sense of smell to compensate her blindness... she's pinpointing direction around the time when only the slightest of whiff would have reached her (speed of diffusion = speed of smell; factor in this is a still room with no wind drafts). Aruruu's right to be scared of her ^^;;;;;;;;; Well ok, likely she's got advanced ears to tell direction that fast, but still, to identify and categorise smells that fast is freakily good...
Wandering_Youth
2006-05-12, 16:18
Interesting episode this was, but the fighting scenes were a bit short. They were good but short.
The merchant turned out to be a spy. Whoopy Doo. It was obivious with his type of character. Shady, sly and chickenish.
Natural Viagra, ftw? Funny, how the merchant literally said it was a "treasure" from a certain of part of a Herapetta. The shape of the item was very suggestive too. :naughty:
I liked how the battle was won in this episode. Not won alone by super powerful characters but real use of strategy and number of forces.
What was Arururu eating in the beginning of the anime. It looked a bit like bread, but I thought it was honeycomb yet I saw no honey.
Xellos-_^
2006-05-12, 16:23
Interesting episode this was, but the fighting scenes were a bit short. They were good but short.
The merchant turned out to be a spy. Whoopy Doo. It was obivious with his type of character. Shady, sly and chickenish.
Herbal Viagra, ftw? I can't believe Erururu blushed when the merchant showed it to her. I guess she must be a naughty girl. :naughty:
I liked how the battle was won in this episode. Not won alone by super powerful characters but real use of strategy and number of forces.
What was Arururu eating in the beginning of the anime. It looked a bit like bread, but I thought it was honeycomb yet I saw no honey.
It seems Erururu recognize it as soon as the peddler bought it out. So what was grandma been teaching her :eyebrow:
i hope nurengi is kill in the next ep. I hate recurring villans like him.
Wandering_Youth
2006-05-12, 16:27
It seems Erururu recognize it as soon as the peddler bought it out. So what was grandma been teaching her :eyebrow:
i hope nurengi is kill in the next ep. I hate recurring villans like him.
Not just medicine but "specific" animal anatomy. :D
Xellos-_^
2006-05-12, 16:34
Not just medicine but "specific" animal anatomy. :D
Considering how landlock the village looks. How did grandma show *that to her? Wonder if grandma has collection of *stuff somewhere.
Onizuka-GTO
2006-05-12, 21:16
Why do twins have to be the same gender? :p
I bet one is female the other is male. except the male is kinda gayish. sorry i meant feminine. :D
Sorrow-K
2006-05-12, 22:28
As much as i like utamarerumono, I feel that fat incompentant rulers are too cliche in anime.Totally agree. The worst thing about it is that it's pretty much the only major sore point in an anime that has, otherwise, been surprisingly good. Fortunately, as has been said, it looks like they're going to be sidelined (hopefully killed) soon, and, with any amount of luck their replacements will be worthwhile antagonists.
It's not the easiest pill to swallow ever, but I'll accept that it was believable (if only barely) that Benawi didn't kill Hakuoro as soon as he got the upper hand, and that Hakuoro let Benawi's soldiers go when he won the battle, given that they seem to have some sort of interesting rivalry going on, and also given that Benawi eventually mutinied against his ruler. At the time though, they're almost friendly banter on the battlefield did feel a tad... unnatural.
It's an interesting story though.... and there's certainly nothing wrong with the pacing. This is looking up with each episode and looks to be turning into quite an epic. Good stuff.
Its good to see that the series is running at a good speed - even better that its going to be 26 episodes.
You just gotta feel sorry for Eruruu - i wonder when'll get to see her more of her feelings shown for Hakuoro.. it better not be something that goes into a back story. >_>
& i really can't wait to see Benawi kick some serious arse.
yeah... though the epic/legendary stuff is okay, it only really has meaning for me in how it impacts people's relationships: separation, lives cut short, etc. I'm probably going to have a hard time staying fascinated if its going to be fight after fight. In this technology setting, there tended to be a lot of positioning, supply gathering, and downtime. "fight after fight" may be movie-rific but....
Long post ahead :
I found some pretty nice posts above so, I will quoting some and posting some comments bellow regarding the episode.
First of all though, I enjoyed watching this episode very much, this despite the fact that the subs came sooner then expected (/cheer Yesy), but also because it, yet again delivered us good development in the story as how it unfolds.
It's an interesting story though.... and there's certainly nothing wrong with the pacing.
I definitly agree.., everything seems to be going VERY well paced; in fact.., currently its one of the strongest aspects that Uta-mono has in his favour.
On this episode we finaly see Benawi stand for his ideals and beliefs.
Benawi seems to be above all a fair person.., whom will always fight for what is truthfully right in befinit of the people.
It was only natural that in due time, thanks to the selfish actions of the emperor he would make his stand; even despite the consequences.
I belive this feeling has always been inside of Benawi.., even though he joined the emperor's army.., I belive he did that in belif that he could bring more peace to the land and more proper justice for the people.
Allas.., the emperor naturaly did not share the same ideals; thus.., Benawi then probably saw in Hakuoro what he had been searching for; or in other words.. a Just man, that even haven chosen to part to war for the freedom of the people is aware of its own consequences and also aware that even in the end he will never forgive himself for taking such actions.
A quote from the previous episode clearly defines Hakuoro very well, he himself said "In the deepest pits of Hell xxxxx exists; and I will eventualy fall there."
Regarding the merchant:
For having such a prespective.., I guess this intrigued Benawi.., thus the merchant he had sent was clearly to investigate on Hakuoro's personality.
More or less "a test" for Hakuoro by the part of Benawi; leads me to belive that he chose not to kill him during the fight because he was getting pleased with the outcome of what he was seeing in this man.
Pleased enough in fact to as I said, take a stand before the emperor saying his actions where not just.
As much as i like utamarerumono, I feel that fat incompentant rulers are too cliche in anime.
Its true.., they are indeed a cliche.., not just in anime.., but in a countless number of stories..; never the less in this case I feel as if they are needed.
The story is only now starting to unfold, thus and in order for it to have a good basic starting ground foundation, it was required an antagonist which wouldn't please the public in general and that due to his selfishness/stupidity commited some act that might trigger the following events.
Such as it happened.
Thus, having served its purpose, we can eliminate him from the story with no regrets.
Also.. judging by the characters we see in the OP.., Uta-mono seems like it has a very good cast of antagonists..; in fact I belive what we will see will be a hierarchy in this aspect. For as when Inkara and his brother where simply emperor&governor of that small land.., there will always be someone more powerfull that is pulling the strings.
At the time though, they're almost friendly banter on the battlefield did feel a tad... unnatural.
I have to dissagree on this.., because I have seen this aspect you mencione several times on anime.
It is hard for me to describe, but these are the type of characters that love to battle, to find a worthy oponent is like to test your own skills, see as how far you can reach, and also to give praise to your oponent, for in these times I belive he would feel the same.
So in other words its more or less like a test for each one given by themselves.
Actualy when Orobo and Benawi's friend (I forgot his name) started to battle, they both say they where "pleased to meet again".
"Pleased" as in happy that they could continue they're unfinished test if you know what I mean.
I guess we will be seeing more of this in this anime, which to me is a very good thing.
On a last note though..
yeah... though the epic/legendary stuff is okay, it only really has meaning for me in how it impacts people's relationships: separation, lives cut short, etc.
I think in this episode we did see a very hard impact on the relation between Eruruu and Hakuoro.
I'll have to spoil tag it though :
Lets start from the begining.., when first Eruruu saved Hakuoro she was very happy to have found him and even more that SHE was able to save him.
As time passed we can realy see that she has grown to him alot, partialy due to his caracter, but we do notice that Eruruu has special feelings for Hakuoro.
I belive in Eruruu's mind nothing would please her more then to spend time with him in a world of peace, but allas.. that is not the case.
As she said so herself in this episode while talking to Yuzuha, when this asked her about him, she then said "He seems too busy now..."
It is a fact.. War is in the heart's of men.., either for good ideals or bad; one of Men's ultimate desire is to fight - while saying this ecchoes of Escaflowne come to mind; never the less I belive it to be the best phrase to describe the path that was chosen.
Thus.., Eruruu currently realised this.. and when she saw Hakuoro returning.. she did not rush to him because.. I belive she saw him in a diferent state.. as in.. the feeling of war is slowly consuming him, taking him away from enjoying calm and serenity.
Which will probably eventualy lead to an interesting development on behalf of Hakuoro.
Thus mostely concludes what I found of good in this episode; the fight scenes where pretty good, altough short; but since that had been mencioned before I thought I'd analise other aspects.
Never the less we have to give credit to the fight scenes, I have not been dissapointed yet with watching one.
Next week:
On next episode we have Hakuoro vs Benawi :)
Oh and Nuwangi seems to get captured :p
Final conclusion : I gave it a 9
Thanks for reading :)
Why do twins have to be the same gender? :p
I bet one is female the other is male. except the male is kinda gayish. sorry i meant feminine. :D
Hehe, UKE ;D
Yes, portraying corrupt emporers as fat people is a common sterotype in Asia really. Overcome with greed, wealth, and power(AND FOOD!). They let themselves go :heh:
Oh I'm starting to dislike Nuwangi in every episode he appears in >_>; He's so hot headed. GOSH.
Oh and that asassin guy, Shikinaro or whatever, he's silly :heh: I like how he says "DESU HAI!" XD
It seems Erururu recognize it as soon as the peddler bought it out. So what was grandma been teaching her :eyebrow:
Since she is essentially going to be the village doctor for the entire area, she would have to know solutions to all sorts of problems people may face, and that does include problems in the bedroom.
Alright - if both the twins are guys - howcome the merchant was saying "beauitful females" when they were in the scene?
Ah well, whatever gender they are - they're pretty adorable in my eyes.
KBTKaiser
2006-05-13, 08:23
They haven't been established as guys yet. That will probably happen somewhere between eps 9-13 I think.
They haven't been established as guys yet. That will probably happen somewhere between eps 9-13 I think.
Do you me to show you that they are males?
Remember, this is based of a game.
It's not the easiest pill to swallow ever, but I'll accept that it was believable (if only barely) that Benawi didn't kill Hakuoro as soon as he got the upper hand, and that Hakuoro let Benawi's soldiers go when he won the battle, given that they seem to have some sort of interesting rivalry going on, and also given that Benawi eventually mutinied against his ruler. At the time though, they're almost friendly banter on the battlefield did feel a tad... unnatural.
I find it perfectly believable and like them for being able to do this. Elite Commanders who acknowledge each other and thus who really don't want to rid the world of such good men. To feel the necessity of killing the enemy commander and all his troops in order to defeat them - while pragmatic it shows a lack of skill, honour, confidence and foresight. Such a commander would have a different reputation to Benawi/Hakuoro and in general, would lack the charisma that give their troops so much inspiration. You saw how the soldiers near Benawi were far different to those who died at the frontline - you can't get such Rallying without high Charisma and Honour/Reputation.
One must think beyond the battlefield. Sure you can make it easy to win by playing dirty, ignoring code of honour, committing unnecessary genocide, etc. But what would you be left with after the war? Your deeds will be known to both your own people and the enemy. If Hakuoro chose the Merciless Demon path, then all he'd be doing would be to replace one tyrant with another (himself). What greater good would that do, if the 'new' system is also one dominated by fear and power? Winning isn't all that matters. "The Ends justify the Means" is an irresponsible view of trying to disown all responsibilities after "The End" has been reached - after he successfully leads the rebellion to victory over the Emperor, Hakuoro has to take responsibility and establish a new government somehow.
The opponents will react differently according to the Commander's Reputation/Charisma too. Troop morale, how much mercy they're willing to show if they do defeat you, how willing they are to retreat if things go bad - all these and more are affected.
That merchant really is something. The muikou leaves... If at any point that you really did think he was a spy, you could interpret that as an message... ...an message saying that they are well aware of the resistance buildup, ..with that they are coming. Practically seemed like an "oh shit - wtf" moment for Hakuoro.
And / or even with, with the merchant's access to such goods, could he have at one point been dealing with Tusukuru? Guy's dirty IMO. Good stuff.
Onizuka-GTO
2006-05-13, 09:29
fat incompetent ruler = little boss.
I think we wil lbe soon moving up to the mid-level boss
and then evetually the high level cool big bad boss.
cliche? sure. but its based on a game. desu HAI!
KBTKaiser
2006-05-13, 09:35
The assassination scene is funnier in the game though.
Aruruu and Mukuru sneak up behind the guy and he's like "I'm just joking. Can you please call off the giant beast?"
Angelsama> BTW, I was the one that clarified that problem in the game Q&A thread. >>;
Daniel E.
2006-05-13, 11:01
I find it perfectly believable and like them for being able to do this. Elite Commanders who acknowledge each other and thus who really don't want to rid the world of such good men.
Amen to this. :)
Benawi didn't kill Hakuoro because deep down inside he admires and respects him a lot. Hakuoro let the soldiers go because the battle was already over.
Certanly a case of Gentleman vs Gentleman.
Mmm, a general trend has been that such Battlefield Honour and 'Chivalry' died as the ages advanced. Even back when Musket/Rifle warfare was first introduced in Europe, as they were so crude in accuracy units bunched up together and fired in volleys. Officers (who were all educated to speak French) on opposing sides did call out "Please, have the honour of the first shot" "No no, after you my good man". Battles would cease when the sun went down and each army would go back and get some sleep - to return to the exact same positions the next morning to continue fighting.
Modern warfare? "If it's seen, it's dead no matter how well armoured it is" - any idiot (on foot or in a ground vehicle) who doesn't hug cover and advance cautiously gets sniped or blown up. On Open Terrain, you don't see lines of people coming towards each other - Transport/Mobility and Accuracy/Range/Rate_of_Fire/Area_of_Effect have improved so much that the fight would start before you can see each other with the naked eye. Any concentrated group of people out in the open would be targeted by artillery (Artillery/Tank Guns, Air Bombing or Cruise Missile).
Given how even the soldiers are unlikely to see each other's faces, how improbable it is for Generals to be looking at each other. Thus, it's that much harder to have Honour on the battlefield when all you see are blips on an electronic map or something.
Angelsama> BTW, I was the one that clarified that problem in the game Q&A thread. >>;
Do you want a medal or something?
Daniel E.
2006-05-13, 13:40
Mmm, a general trend has been that such Battlefield Honour and 'Chivalry' died as the ages advanced. Even back when Musket/Rifle warfare was first introduced in Europe, as they were so crude in accuracy units bunched up together and fired in volleys. Officers (who were all educated to speak French) on opposing sides did call out "Please, have the honour of the first shot" "No no, after you my good man". Battles would cease when the sun went down and each army would go back and get some sleep - to return to the exact same positions the next morning to continue fighting.
This kinda reminded me of how Last Exile started; Where they actually made signs and take turns to kill one another.
KBTKaiser
2006-05-13, 14:03
Do you want a medal or something?
No, just saying. Considering how many times the question's come up now...
thundrakkon
2006-05-13, 16:39
You just gotta feel sorry for Eruruu - i wonder when'll get to see her more of her feelings shown for Hakuoro.. it better not be something that goes into a back story. >_>
A side note from all the killing and battles going on, I would definitely like to see more of their relationship develop. It certainly adds to the story.
That said, I would feel sorry for Aruruu in a way. I mean, so if her sister hooks up with her "father," then what does she call her sister? Or, in another perspective, if her father marries her sister, does her father become her brother? :heh:
I am sure she doesn't mind either way, but still....
I commend the episode for astounding movie soundtrack quality, however, I found the animation lagging and crude especially concerning with the colors hue and brilliance. The color intensity seemed as if were whitened.
Benawi and Hakuoro each display their talents quite at comparative advantages between them.
- Benawi possess talent and skills, as his swordsmanship manages to pawn Hakuoro at his mercy. Besides, Benawi correctly foresaw that Hakuoro would be guiding his troops to raid the fronts gate so, therefore, relocated his men and himself at the gate in expectancy of the rebels.
- On the other hand, Hakuoro proves his strategies quite elaborated, and his leadership is making known to inspire other neighboring villages to support the rebellion.
Benawi could had never expected that the forces splitted in two, letting the chivalry served as distraction while the rear guard came from the unguarded end flank. However, the victory was possible because the archer twins arrived in time while successfully guiding the second flank to the gate.
Benawi and Kouro mentioned not expecting a surprise ambush coming from the forest. Is that where the twins and the others came from to raid the rear flank?
I too am awared that Hakuoro's war venture is turning business-like, making Hakuoro to direct his attention to the general people's welfare while overlooking both Eruruu and Aruruu's well feelings.
I can come to think that Hakuoro's eventual change of his demeanor is attributed to the toll he's paying for Tusukuru's death and having to carry the humonguous burden of protecting the people that are slowly becoming dragged in war state, now that he's become the elder leader. In turn, the distance between him and the sisters is turning wide, and Hakuoro is losing sight of them.
And for one more time I wish for Inkara to bite the dust soon. It's unforgiveable to order the slaughtering of peaceful villages that did not want to get involved in the rebellion.
But thanks to the fat, blubber a** more people are meeting reasons to pledge their lives under the care of Hakuoro.
Actually, I believe that it wasn't a second group of Hakuoro's army, but rather, the villagers from the other side.
Kamui4356
2006-05-13, 17:00
Actually, I believe that it wasn't a second group of Hakuoro's army, but rather, the villagers from the other side.
The twins were leading the rear attack. It had to be a second flank of Hakuoro's forces, or they wouldn't have been. Plus the villagers on the other side wouldn't have known Hakuoro was attacking the gate, so they wouldn't have been able to coordinate the attack. I thought it was villagers from the other side too, at first.
OshadowO
2006-05-13, 18:30
The twins were leading the rear attack. It had to be a second flank of Hakuoro's forces, or they wouldn't have been. Plus the villagers on the other side wouldn't have known Hakuoro was attacking the gate, so they wouldn't have been able to coordinate the attack. I thought it was villagers from the other side too, at first.
nope it was the villagers on the other side. Rewatch Hakurou's convo with Benawi where big ben tells ol Hak that it was insane to send those two through the forest and Hak commends them on their speed.
Anyway I can't decided if I like this anime or not. I do like it but Benawi is driving me nuts. He's the best Character imo and he's frustrating as hell. I hope that bastard of a wimp Nuwangi dies soon, but some how I feel even if he comes close to it he will survive like the cockraoch he is.
I commend the episode for astounding movie soundtrack quality, however, I found the animation lagging and crude especially concerning with the colors hue and brilliance. The color intensity seemed as if were whitened.
Benawi and Hakuoro each display their talents quite at comparative advantages between them.
- Benawi possess talent and skills, as his swordsmanship manages to pawn Hakuoro at his mercy. Besides, Benawi correctly foresaw that Hakuoro would be guiding his troops to raid the fronts gate so, therefore, relocated his men and himself at the gate in expectancy of the rebels.
Actually, I disagree. I think Benawi didn't choose to be placed there, but made it such that he'd get to fight Hakuoro again there. He knew the villager who got through the gate was from the other side, to bring news of that side's readiness to rebel (presumably the Emperor's indiscriminate attacks and/or some proclaimation was enough to inform them that Hakuoro's side were fighting). So, Benawi let this 'messenger' escape knowing that Hakuoro would likely attack the gate in response. This act gives him the advantage as it brings Hakuoro's forces out of their castle and to his own stronghold. He didn't expect Hakuoro to pull off a pincer attack though.
As for the rear attack, I still do believe it was the villagers from the other side - the twins marathon ran all the way to the nearest village and brought their aid back. When they started that journey, I do not know. But it doesn't make sense that the rear attack is also Hakuoro's army - the twins are of exceptional mobility and ordinary villagers can't have kept up with them with a battering ram and still be fresh to attack if they'd started from Hakuoro's position. Maybe they got into position early? Then why are the twins the only ones who are out of breath? And why else would Hakuoro say "the conditions were perfect" if it wasn't for the villagers on the other side being ready to come in as reinforcements? We don't even know how far away the nearest village on the other side was - it would only take one village-worth of people to turn the tide in a pincer strike.
Hmm, I guess it's more a fusion of the two - I don't think the other side could have prepared a battering ram that fast so Hakuoro sent a small siege force with the twins to get into position for the rear attack. This siege force then hid while the twins ran to the villages (yes, it's an insane feat - hence Benawi's line and this is an era where hero-quality individuals pull off great feats) to 'recruit' them as the rear attack force. Again, I'm not sure how early the twins were sent out or how far they had to run to get to the nearest village.
Here's an interesting theory.
What if Benawi did defeat Hakuoro and capture him?
With Inkara obviously a bad ruler, would Benawi attempt a coup to place Hakuoro at the top? Since he's got rather easy access to Inkara, it wouldn't be too hard to kill him. Civilians are spared the horrors of war and it'd be a rather bloodless coup assuming the army listens to Benwai.
Here's an interesting theory.
What if Benawi did defeat Hakuoro and capture him?
With Inkara obviously a bad ruler, would Benawi attempt a coup to place Hakuoro at the top? Since he's got rather easy access to Inkara, it wouldn't be too hard to kill him. Civilians are spared the horrors of war and it'd be a rather bloodless coup assuming the army listens to Benwai.
This all sounds easy yes, but again think of the situation afterwards. Benawi wouldn't be the Elite Charismatic Commander that he became today if he could ever think of actually killing his lord, no matter how corrupt and evil he turned out to be compared to when he first joined service. For if he did stain his hands (directly or indirectly) by assassinating the Emperor, his own reptuation would be shot and Hakuoro probably wouldn't accept being placed up there - nor would people be as willing to follow him.
The lives of many must be sacrificed (on both sides) for there to be a result the people would accept in the long term. Honour and Reputation can be such strange things at times.
nope it was the villagers on the other side. Rewatch Hakurou's convo with Benawi where big ben tells ol Hak that it was insane to send those two through the forest and Hak commends them on their speed.
Which also appears for later, leaves open question on what is really up with that forest that fears them so.
Kamui4356
2006-05-14, 02:34
Hmm, I guess it's more a fusion of the two - I don't think the other side could have prepared a battering ram that fast so Hakuoro sent a small siege force with the twins to get into position for the rear attack. This siege force then hid while the twins ran to the villages (yes, it's an insane feat - hence Benawi's line and this is an era where hero-quality individuals pull off great feats) to 'recruit' them as the rear attack force. Again, I'm not sure how early the twins were sent out or how far they had to run to get to the nearest village.
That could be. The battering ram is one of the things that convinces me it was a second flank sent by Hakuoro. If it's a combination force, that would explain it's presence. If they were laying in wait, they'd have time to make a battering ram before the reinforcements arrived, so they wouldn't have to had brought it with them, easing the burdon somewhat.
For the mobility issue, any forces involved were probably hand picked for speed.
Since Hakuoro was attempting to lay seige to the gate, he would need to cut off both sides. If he attacks only one side of the gate, the defending force can still get logistical support if the gate doesn't fall quickly. This creates a bad situation for Hakuoro's force, having to assult a fortified position that can easily get reinforcements and supplies. It had to be part of his plan to cut off the gate.
Also, while he was aware of willingness to rebel by villagers on the other side, they could not have been counted on. They wouldn't have had even the minimal training Hakuoro's troops have, nor would they be mobilized. I don't believe they could have fielded a sizeable force in time to help at the gate.
At the very least there must have been a small force Hakuoro sent around to cut off the gate. It may have been reinforced by villagers from that side though. I don't think the anime will give us a definative answer. Perhaps there's an answer from the game?
Which also appears for later, leaves open question on what is really up with that forest that fears them so.
It might not be that there's something they fear, but the terrain was considered impassable, at least by an army. Since they chose to build a gate there, it would make sense that they didn't expect it could be bypassed. There are plenty of historic parallels to this. * Hannibal crossing the alps, the Germans attacking through the Ardennes in both ww1 and ww2, and the US traveling through the deep desert into Iraq in gulf war 1 just off the top of my head*
edit: If it was something they feared, I'd bet on the mutikapa, which has already been resolved. ;)
Tiberium Wolf
2006-05-14, 03:05
Why do you ppl insist that it's a second army sent by Hakuruo? The gate there was to separate the land where he is from the other land in the other side. Hakuruo took the villagers from his side to attack and set the twins to the other side to get the rebellious vilagers to attack too, syncronizing their attack on the gate!
At the very least there must have been a small force Hakuoro sent around to cut off the gate. It may have been reinforced by villagers from that side though. I don't think the anime will give us a definative answer. Perhaps there's an answer from the game?
The game does it a lot differently.
Hakuoro has his forces setting up all sorts of attacks along the border in order to create a diversion while sending a small team in to destroy the gate at Tatokori. Benawi had underestimated Hakuoro's strength as a strategist, but he did know that Tatokori would be prime attack if Hakuoro wanted to mount an attack. That's why, upon realization, he and Kurou rushed over. Just before reaching Tatokori, Teoro unleashes a trap on them, sending rocks tumbling down on Benawi's troops, and Kurou and Benawi get separated, with Kurou on the side of the Tatokori gate and Benawi on the other. In the game, Tatokori was essentially a toll booth built to levy tolls on the populace, and hence would be an easy target.
Kamui4356
2006-05-14, 03:50
Why do you ppl insist that it's a second army sent by Hakuruo? The gate there was to separate the land where he is from the other land in the other side. Hakuruo took the villagers from his side to attack and set the twins to the other side to get the rebellious vilagers to attack too, syncronizing their attack on the gate!
Why do you insist it isn't? That the gate was set up to seperate the territory doesn't mean it was the only way through. ;)
It would be poor strategy to rely on a second force of unknown strength, with no training, that hasn't been mobilized, and with whom you have no communication. Coordinating the attack between the two sides would have been next to impossible, and there would be no way to let Hakuoro know if something went wrong. If there was an unforseen delay or the force fielded was much smaller than anticipated, the attack would have failed. Hakuoro doesn't seem the type to leave things for fate to decide like that. ;)
The game does it a lot differently.
Hakuoro has his forces setting up all sorts of attacks along the border in order to create a diversion while sending a small team in to destroy the gate at Tatokori. Benawi had underestimated Hakuoro's strength as a strategist, but he did know that Tatokori would be prime attack if Hakuoro wanted to mount an attack. That's why, upon realization, he and Kurou rushed over. Just before reaching Tatokori, Teoro unleashes a trap on them, sending rocks tumbling down on Benawi's troops, and Kurou and Benawi get separated, with Kurou on the side of the Tatokori gate and Benawi on the other. In the game, Tatokori was essentially a toll booth built to levy tolls on the populace, and hence would be an easy target.
I like that scenerio more. It better shows Hakuoro's tactical skill, and makes quite a bit more sense. The rebellion in the anime doesn't have the widespread feel that implies.
That's basicly what the gate was in the anime as well. Though there did seem to be more troops than needed for such a purpose...
Perhaps the messenger that Benawi let through the pass revealed other information to Hakuoro and co. that wasn't explicitly told to the audience; like the mobilization status of the villages on the other side of the gate.
Hakuoro also states during the war briefing that they'll assault the gate at sunrise --which is when the archer twins show up -- despite the operation starting when the moon was still visible. Perhaps the villages on the other side of the gate had already mobilized and were awaiting a response? Thus Hakuoro's choice of assaulting at sunrise, and thus he sent the twins, and they were tired from running all night.
Tiberium Wolf
2006-05-14, 04:49
Why do you insist it isn't? That the gate was set up to seperate the territory doesn't mean it was the only way through. ;)
It would be poor strategy to rely on a second force of unknown strength, with no training, that hasn't been mobilized, and with whom you have no communication. Coordinating the attack between the two sides would have been next to impossible, and there would be no way to let Hakuoro know if something went wrong. If there was an unforseen delay or the force fielded was much smaller than anticipated, the attack would have failed. Hakuoro doesn't seem the type to leave things for fate to decide like that. ;)
The gate is there coz it was the only safe passage else it would be meaningless for it to exist. The gate is not like China Great Wall!! That messanger that got through just told that the villagers in the other side were rebelling and so the twins got to the other side taking the dangerous route and so telling the villagers there to attack at the same time. That is explicit in the ep. But I guess you didn't watch carefully the ep. :heh:
The gate is there coz it was the only safe passage else it would be meaningless for it to exist. The gate is not like China Great Wall!! That messanger that got through just told that the villagers in the other side were rebelling and so the twins got to the other side taking the dangerous route and so telling the villagers there to attack at the same time. That is explicit in the ep. But I guess you didn't watch carefully the ep. :heh:
And the reasoning overall for the attack was to acquire more people, for in that to further build up the resistance forces to an centralized order. That without, would be greatly weakened overall. -A goal that both village sides seemed willing to resolve.
Perhaps the messenger that Benawi let through the pass revealed other information to Hakuoro and co. that wasn't explicitly told to the audience; like the mobilization status of the villages on the other side of the gate.
Hakuoro also states during the war briefing that they'll assault the gate at sunrise --which is when the archer twins show up -- despite the operation starting when the moon was still visible. Perhaps the villages on the other side of the gate had already mobilized and were awaiting a response? Thus Hakuoro's choice of assaulting at sunrise, and thus he sent the twins, and they were tired from running all night.
That's a good point... they attacked before the time he said... So hmm, the timeline of that assault would have been something like...
Late evening~Night - Messenger arrives from the other side. Presumably Hakuoro further questioned this messenger with information like readiness to assault, mobilisation status, weapon logistics, etc. Twins are set on marathon run as soon as it's ascertained that they can attack given signal.
Dawn, before sunrise - judging by the position of the moon, perhaps an hour or less before sunrise? Hakuoro's frontal assault begins.
Sunrise - clearly the signal for the rear attack to begin. Twins had gathered what they could and lead the attack. Battering ram... depending on how early they reached the first village, could have been prepared in an hour during which the Twins would go to more villages.
If this battle lasted a mere 1 hour or so, then there's no need to cut off the rear end of the gate - you can't get reinforcements or logistics support delivered within such a short time.
Yes, it's reasonable to assume that the villagers on the other side wouldn't send a messenger on such a dangerous mission in the first place unless it was critical information - meaning that they were ready to mobilise. It's irrelevant what level of training they had - their presence in numbers with arms coming from the rear puts enough psychological weight that it's all over for the defenders who had already thinned out into a long 1~2 man depth line. You saw how the soldiers turning around to look at the rear army was enough to be the death of them.
Kamui4356
2006-05-14, 12:30
The gate is there coz it was the only safe passage else it would be meaningless for it to exist. The gate is not like China Great Wall!! That messanger that got through just told that the villagers in the other side were rebelling and so the twins got to the other side taking the dangerous route and so telling the villagers there to attack at the same time. That is explicit in the ep. But I guess you didn't watch carefully the ep. :heh:
I'm not saying the second force was comprised entirely of Hakuoro's troops, only that there was at least a core of them. *Though I was at first* There are historic parallels, and it makes good tactical sense to send a flanking force behind. That the twins got through means others could have as well. ;) After all, what if the twins got to those villages and heard that the messenger's report was exaggerated and they wouldn't be ready to move for several days? They would have had no way to inform Hakuoro, and he was counting on the second flank, which suggests at least a small force was sent with the twins.
Psieye's suggestion of the small seige force with the twins gathering whaever aid they can get immediately from the other villages makes a lot of sense. Even if they couldn't send the numbers Hakuoro was expecting, at least there would be a small second flank to take some of the pressure off the frontal assault.
Why is this so hard to believe? :confused: There are real life parallels, it makes sense to do so, it's the type of move that would be expected from a character like Hakuoro... If Hakuoro was more like Oboro, I'd be more willing to believe he would have left things to chance and hoped the twins could get there on time with a large enough force from the villages on the other side. However, like I said before, Hakuoro does not seem to be one who would leave things to chance.
Also, note that the second force has pikes. If they were composed entirely of villagers from the other side, they would have been armed with just improvised weapons such as pitch forks, axes, and the like. They may have had time to prepare a battering ram, but surely they didn't have enough time to make actual weapons like the pikes.;)
Well, it's not likely we'll get any more information in future episodes, and there isn't enough to decisively support one side over the other now. Plus it's a minor point, either way, Hakuoro has now linked up with the villagers on the other side of the gate.
The small siege force would likely have been carrying extra weapons and were to arrive much later than the Twins then - that I can accept. Set off at same time as twins, arrive at rendezvous point slower but in time to hand out weapons to the manforce that the Twins bring back. I assume the battering ram was still from the first village - that should be easy enough to prepare given the abundance of trees around the place.
Takemi_Ikazuchi
2006-05-14, 15:01
You know, deploying Mukkuru would have been a considerable advantage.
Psychological warfare at least.
But Mukkuru comes along with Aruru as a set and I guess Hakuoro has parental obligations to keep her away from war.
Why is this so hard to believe? :confused: There are real life parallels, it makes sense to do so, it's the type of move that would be expected from a character like Hakuoro... If Hakuoro was more like Oboro, I'd be more willing to believe he would have left things to chance and hoped the twins could get there on time with a large enough force from the villages on the other side. However, like I said before, Hakuoro does not seem to be one who would leave things to chance.
If one believe when Hakuoro says he won't fight a battle that he can't win. Stalemating for an time, to even up to an point where Hakuoro may have believed that they were going to lose it. As an dangerous path through the forest, no guarantee. And the numbers would have to be great, for Benawi to consider withdraw. And we do know that there are people on the other side that are itching to do a bit of ass kicking. ..if to believe the messenger.
And reckless that is. For without further confirmation, to whom they side, could've even been the emperor's. But to his word Hakuoro believed of this messenger. And chance, that it be.
Also, note that the second force has pikes. If they were composed entirely of villagers from the other side, they would have been armed with just improvised weapons such as pitch forks, axes, and the like. They may have had time to prepare a battering ram, but surely they didn't have enough time to make actual weapons like the pikes.;)
Which probably would indicate that the other side of the gate has been in battle for some time now. But true also, in that the weapons could had came from anywhere.
Well, it's not likely we'll get any more information in future episodes, and there isn't enough to decisively support one side over the other now. Plus it's a minor point, either way, Hakuoro has now linked up with the villagers on the other side of the gate.
Linked up, in which the emperor won't be too happy. ;)
Daniel E.
2006-05-14, 20:08
You know, deploying Mukkuru would have been a considerable advantage.
Psychological warfare at least.
But Mukkuru comes along with Aruru as a set and I guess Hakuoro has parental obligations to keep her away from war.
This makes a lot of sense, and it's most likely the reason as to why Hakuoro didn't use her (Mukkuru is a she, right?) during the battle.
If one believe when Hakuoro says he won't fight a battle that he can't win. Stalemating for an time, to even up to an point where Hakuoro may have believed that they were going to lose it. As an dangerous path through the forest, no guarantee. And the numbers would have to be great, for Benawi to consider withdraw. And we do know that there are people on the other side that are itching to do a bit of ass kicking. ..if to believe the messenger.
And reckless that is. For without further confirmation, to whom they side, could've even been the emperor's. But to his word Hakuoro believed of this messenger. And chance, that it be.
Any wise commander should know that (s)he is not omniscient, therefore cannot tell, to 100% accuracy, the outcome of a battle while still in the planning phase. What Hakuoro meant was that their chance to win wasn't minimal - it wasn't 100% but it was significant enough (for example, 91%) that he could order his men to go for it at the cost of some of their lives.
It is impossible to completely get rid of the element of Chance from the equation. All one can do is minimise its influence as best as one can.
Onizuka-GTO
2006-05-14, 21:51
As they say, a good commander is one who plans for victory, but prepare for defeat.
:)
Any wise commander should know that (s)he is not omniscient, therefore cannot tell, to 100% accuracy, the outcome of a battle while still in the planning phase. What Hakuoro meant was that their chance to win wasn't minimal - it wasn't 100% but it was significant enough (for example, 91%) that he could order his men to go for it at the cost of some of their lives.
It is impossible to completely get rid of the element of Chance from the equation. All one can do is minimise its influence as best as one can.
Significant enough to win by under Hakuoro's planning ...if to truly count on the forces from the other side of the gate. Without, chances of win goes down. If village of other side against, down even further. That at that point, the take of the gate would've been useless. But for the viewer, all the better the watch, as that chance falls to center.
Hunter Nin.
2006-05-15, 04:50
You and everyone else :p
No one knows in anime what the gender for the twins are.
We need to turn this into a guessing about what gender the twins are :p
I think they're girls; when they're trying on the jewellery the merchant says something like "jewellery that would look beautiful on women" and he also says "why are there so many beautiful girls here" and it pans across erruru, arruru, blue haired person and the twins.
Anyway, I hope their girls... lol
Oh and I also think it's wise to keep Mukkuru out of battle... don't want her developing a taste for human flesh now.
Oh and I also think it's wise to keep Mukkuru out of battle... don't want her developing a taste for human flesh now.
Yeah, and all we know Hakuoro is smart enough for not let his fortress unprotected. Probably he's letting Mukkuru out of battle so she can help to protect Eruruu, Aruruu and the other womens and childrens from the village. ;)
On a side note, it's better Hakuoro to check his dinner carefully tonight, or Eruruu will put some special "spice" on it so she can finally have "some". :heh:
Now now, the merchant gave the... 'energy item' to Hakuoro not Eruruu when he parted - unless Hakuoro immediately gave it to Eruruu for safekeeping but I don't think he's that inconsiderate ^^;;
Generally a well-developed episode pretty thick with events. Only complaint? And its not really even a complaint. Predictable (I've not played the game past the intro).
really lousy stupid ruler who doesn't understand basic economics or implicit feudal contracts between lord and people, noble warrior who sees he's with the wrong crowd a mile off but favors "order" even if its corrupt (to a point). Cowardly, deranged dangerous nephew (shades of Dune). Inevitable that the captain speaks up at the end. Not original --- but still a good fireside story to "whoo" the kids with, the stuff legends are made of.
Sadness for Eruruu (doctor and quartermaster though she is) --- Aruruu seems to be carving her own more assertive path though. :) Good to see Mutikapa has a reputation.
The series is not shaping up to the be romance within a war I thought it might be, but its still holding my interest simply because they're taking the time to show these people know and use intelligent military tactics, supply, flanking... yee godz this leaves that Navel project a few threads over in the dust in the context of combat tactics and planning against an enemy.
Nonetheless, I'm not looking forward to 20 some-odd episodes of Eruruu being ignored or neglected though "as great events happen".
I really like this anime. After watching this episode I realized how solid and good the plot is compared to other animes. I wish I saved these episodes on my hard drive.
UnknownToLife
2006-05-22, 15:16
The twins in the game are guys, but in the anime they have tails, sooo I assume they are girls.
Furudanuki
2006-05-22, 16:06
The twins in the game are guys, but in the anime they have tails, sooo I assume they are girls.
Unfortunately, the presence of a tail is not a sure indication of gender. While it seems that a high percentage (if not all) of the women have tails, some of the men have them too. Here is a link to an earlier tale about the tails... (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=549205#post549205)
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