Super Smas Bros: Brawl

[Mr. DJ]

http://revolution.ign.com/articles/707/707504p1.html

Solid Snake ftw :)

[Remittance Man]

I swear...People talk about great characters that should be in Super Smash Bros...but where's GENO????
Geno owns you.

[Conan-san]

Geno + Cardboard box = Ultra Invicibility.

[Angelic Cross]

I'm also posting this in the E3 thread. IGN just put up a link to the Japanese Smash Bros. Brawl where Nintendo's asking fans who to fill the rest of the roster with. (http://revolution.ign.com/articles/707/707671p1.html)

I sent in my choices. They're for the most part obscure characters since I figured they should continue what they started with Mr. Game and Watch:

Mike (from the Star Tropics series)
Nester, aka Lark (from Pilotwings 64 and Nester's Funky Bowling for the Virtual Boy)
Little Mac (from the Punch Out!! series)
Ike (from Fire Emblem - Path of Flame)
Mike Anderson
Anubis

I left out where the last two are from since I want to see if anyone can figure out which obscure Nintendo series they're from. Here's a few hints:

-Their games were on the SNES
-The second game, despite being developed in Japan, was never released there
-Should Nintendo remake or continue the games, they would be perfect for the Wii

So, anyone want to take a guess?

[Sides]

Mike Anderson
Anubis

I left out where the last two are from since I want to see if anyone can figure out which obscure Nintendo series they're from. Here's a few hints:

-Their games were on the SNES
-The second game, despite being developed in Japan, was never released there
-Should Nintendo remake or continue the games, they would be perfect for the Wii

So, anyone want to take a guess?
One of those few scope game, Space Bazooka

[Angelic Cross]

*gives Sides a mountain of cookies*

And you used the Japanese name too!

Battleclash and Metal Combat: Falcon's Revenge were among my favorite SNES games and my favorite Super Scope games. The fact that they were serious mecha games by Nintendo helped too. It would be extremely awesome if they continued it on the Wii (I have to confess, that was an underlying motive for my suggesting those two characters for SSMBB).

Back on topic, anyone else going to use the link to make suggestions for SSMBB?

[Circular Logic]

Give me Square Enix characters. Now.

[Sety]

Mike (from the Star Tropics series)
Nester, aka Lark (from Pilotwings 64 and Nester's Funky Bowling for the Virtual Boy)
Little Mac (from the Punch Out!! series)
Ike (from Fire Emblem - Path of Flame)

._.

No other Fire Emblem character deserves a place more than Sigurd from Seisen no Keifu. I mean he starred in the highest selling FE game and for the most part he gets little next to no recognition.

[Illuyankas]

Samass is fine by me :D

I'm just hoping they don't give into temptation and stick Sonic in. Or if they did, to take out the crappy kid's theme he's got now.

[FlamingFist]

Man Star Tropics was such an excellent game.

[Fel]

I always figured they'd either call it SSB Brawl or SSB Rumble :D
Solid Snake seems like a really weird inclusion.
I hope there's a cel-shaded Link (instead of Young Link) and a phazon-colored Samus. And maybe a non-wussy pokemon. And Viewtiful Joe.

Edit:
And I can't wait to see how they incorporate the Wario Ware minigames.
showtime だ!

[ayyo]

Wow, Metaknight looks like 0wn.

Yeah, Snake looks way out of place with Pokemons and elves and hopefully overgrown apes.

And they could have all 3 Links, that would be the best :D

Hopefully they'll have all the old characters back. I see no reason not to.

[Urzu 7]

I always figured they'd either call it SSB Brawl or SSB Rumble :D
Solid Snake seems like a really weird inclusion.
I hope there's a cel-shaded Link (instead of Young Link) and a phazon-colored Samus. And maybe a non-wussy pokemon. And Viewtiful Joe.


Oh my God, VJ, why hasn't anyone thought that one up yet. You sir, are brilliant! :D

[Imaginer]

I swear that last bit of one of the ign trailer videos had me cracking up!!!

"Its show time!!!" LOL :D

[Spectacular_Insanity]

I still wonder though---- I thought they stuck to the convention where they only use Nintendo characters. I wonder why they changed.

It IS funny, though, that the PS is getting all of its nearly-franchised material taken away. It's got nothing, now that is solely for the PS. Microsoft is betting the crap out of the other companies with monopolies on good games like Halo.

[striderm]

Oni Link from Majora's Mask.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Super Smash Spoiler ahead!!

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2518/snakewins1wz0zy1eq.gif

"I'm on reconnaisance duty..."

[Circular Logic]

I
It IS funny, though, that the PS is getting all of its nearly-franchised material taken away. It's got nothing, now that is solely for the PS. Microsoft is betting the crap out of the other companies with monopolies on good games like Halo.
Sorry, correction. 'Microsoft is betting the crap out of the other companies with monopolies on its ONLY good game, Halo.'

Ummmm...both Nintendo and Sony absolutely pwn Microsoft?

[Spectacular_Insanity]

But it's still a good game. And that's all we care about... :shrug:

[x_Kotori_x]

Smashy smash bros + me + a taco = Love

[OutPhase]

lol @ solid snake and not using caps-lock

[Maceart]

I like the inclusion of Meta-knight, but I hope that Nintendo keeps all the old characters that was in the SSBM.

[Urzu 7]

This game should have wireless play, too. which should be a blast. :)

[Terrestrial Dream]

Why is this thread so dead? There is like a update everyday and yet nobody are taking about the updates. Anyway Pokemon trainer as a character is pretty interesting concept, but I think it could be little hard to balance.

[Klashikari]

humm... if they could balance Zelda/Shiek in Melee, i don't see a problem with a "shapeshift" with 3 pokemon.

the problem is most likely the "forced" way to swap, as the stamina is another important thing to micro manage...
i Hope they will put enough difference so they will create a dynamic of it.

i hope they will not add any more pokemon (not that i dislike the franchise by any mean), since instead of adding more and more (much like the useless clone, pichu, and the retarded jigglypuff), they can introduce more characters from different franchises.

I'm a bit sad that Marth and Roy won't make their come back (i assume, as the newcome from fire emblem looks like a mix of the previous swordmen...) but oh well ^^"

[Terrestrial Dream]

humm... if they could balance Zelda/Shiek in Melee, i don't see a problem with a "shapeshift" with 3 pokemon.

the problem is most likely the "forced" way to swap, as the stamina is another important thing to micro manage...
i Hope they will put enough difference so they will create a dynamic of it.

i hope they will not add any more pokemon (not that i dislike the franchise by any mean), since instead of adding more and more (much like the useless clone, pichu, and the retarded jigglypuff), they can introduce more characters from different franchises.

I'm a bit sad that Marth and Roy won't make their come back (i assume, as the newcome from fire emblem looks like a mix of the previous swordmen...) but oh well ^^" But this time it's with three character so it could be different, and yes it is too bad that Roy and Marth won't be there those two were one of my best characters

[Benoit]

the retarded jigglypuff
Hey, Jigglypuff is a pretty good character! His slap does a lot of damage. When you sing a character that's damaged enough to sleep, you can roll up and bounce him/her out of the arena! :D

[Klashikari]

I know jigglypuff "rest" attack can be really powerful and devastating. (though the "hitbox" of the skill is extremely unconsistant. heck, it is almosy impossible to do it on the ground, except if you recklessly run at the oppenents, who will easely guard)

the problem is mainly the "style" which is clearly not "balanced".
Supposed to be a heavy aerial melee character, it is also its huge weakness.

Not as silly as pichu in term of "suvivability", Jigglygpuff is really not a top tier char. even kirby, who was terribly nerfed from SSB N64 version is a better choice in that regard (losing the "burst" effect, but that's it). let's not mention peach, who has a better air control (her meteor smash, and down smash are extremely efficient)

Falco, Cpt Falcon and kirby offer far more options and decency in that field. (well i can't expect 25 characters being balanced...)

[innominate]

whoa! This is the only game in the first page of the games subforum that I've actually played before... Last year, that is.

Okay, not exactly, I've not touched brawl before, but I've played melee and vN64, the latter I consider myself more proficient at.

But I found jigglypuff nerfed in melee, contrary to what my friends think. I thought the improved 'versatility' of that character in melee heavily undermined the original style of the character not to mention the decreased defense of the attacks.

Can't remember too much about a game I played last year though. =O

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

well they've updated with a new skill called "gliding".
Its only use for Pit, Metaknight, and Charizard (one of Pokemon Trainers choices of Pokemon).
Pretty interesting new skill and it will add new ideas and styles of fighting in Brawl.
But the biggest update in Brawl to date is the Subspace Emissary in the Adventure mode. Sounds like the creator of Brawl has come up with a huge idea for this new adventure mode that will affect every character in Brawl. Anyone seen the videos of the Subspace Emissary on the website?
The characters new looks are really good. They all have good details to their clothing and over all expression that expresses the character that their supposed to be.
December 3 is the date of release, until then I can't wait to play this game...it sounds pretty epic with all the updates and third party characters that are trying to make the cut.

[Terrestrial Dream]

well they've updated with a new skill called "gliding".
Its only use for Pit, Metaknight, and Charizard (one of Pokemon Trainers choices of Pokemon).
Pretty interesting new skill and it will add new ideas and styles of fighting in Brawl.
But the biggest update in Brawl to date is the Subspace Emissary in the Adventure mode. Sounds like the creator of Brawl has come up with a huge idea for this new adventure mode that will affect every character in Brawl. Anyone seen the videos of the Subspace Emissary on the website?
The characters new looks are really good. They all have good details to their clothing and over all expression that expresses the character that their supposed to be.
December 3 is the date of release, until then I can't wait to play this game...it sounds pretty epic with all the updates and third party characters that are trying to make the cut. Speaking of third party, how come there is zero update on Snake? There should be at least some info seeing how popular he is. New adventure mode seems really nice, Melee's adventure mode was pretty fun, but it was really repetitive to beat it again and again for those damn trophies.

[Klashikari]

They might have problem about how they will design him.
basically, they need to pull his "leet" skills, without being overpowered, or completely OOC / ridiculous.

much like samus, who her lethality is greatly toned down for SSB series, i believe they are doing some extra care in design but also faithfulness with Snake.
I guess ideo kojima helps in it as well.

[Js2756]

I know jigglypuff "rest" attack can be really powerful and devastating. (though the "hitbox" of the skill is extremely unconsistant. heck, it is almosy impossible to do it on the ground, except if you recklessly run at the oppenents, who will easely guard)

the problem is mainly the "style" which is clearly not "balanced".
Supposed to be a heavy aerial melee character, it is also its huge weakness.

Not as silly as pichu in term of "suvivability", Jigglygpuff is really not a top tier char. even kirby, who was terribly nerfed from SSB N64 version is a better choice in that regard (losing the "burst" effect, but that's it). let's not mention peach, who has a better air control (her meteor smash, and down smash are extremely efficient)

Falco, Cpt Falcon and kirby offer far more options and decency in that field. (well i can't expect 25 characters being balanced...)

Kirby is one of the worst characters in SSBM. Jigglypuff is way better. Jiggly has just as good recovery (actually better, thanks to Pound), and way better smashes and specials. Kirby can't combo as well, and has no easy way to get kills. As much as you bash rest, there are ways to land it on a consistent basis. I will agree that it is hard to land on a grounded opponent, but Jiggly has easy ways to to get the opponent off the ground with throws, Pound, or even up tilts. Learn how to use Jiggly's good aerials and you can see just how much better she is than Kirby.

[Angelic Cross]

Why are people worried about Marth not being in? There hasn't been any indication that he's been removed (and considering the symbol for all FE-related things in Brawl is the Falchion, I'm more inclined to believe that he's still in). Roy is another matter though, seeing as he was only added in Melee to increases the sales for his game.

Speaking of third party, how come there is zero update on Snake?

They might have problem about how they will design him.
basically, they need to pull his "leet" skills, without being overpowered, or completely OOC / ridiculous.

I'd say there's another reason for that. The unlockable characters in Melee weren't featured in the official website until after the game's release. Sakurai has stated that the 3rd party characters will be unlockables, so I imagine we won't be seeing Snake's profile for a long while.

Huh, should someone put up a list of all the updates for Brawl for those who don't visit the site?

Well, if anyone still doesn't know about it here's the official Brawl page. (http://www.smashbros.com/)

Oh yeah, what's everyone's thoughts on what's been revealed for The Subspace Emissary so far? I for one am definitely liking it. Though I'm kind of worried that it seems like we'll be forced to start out with Kirby.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Kirby has really been watered down in recent versions of SSB. In the original 64 version, I could raelly pwn with him. But now, he just has little to no attack power.

And Roy is the best character in the game, IMO. I can pwn ANYONE with him. I Beat the 100-man melee with him in SSBM. His target test was ridiculously difficult, though.

I haven't played this latest version yet, but I plan to at the earliest opportunity. I'm in college, though, and I'm not sure I can afford to waste money on "frivolous" objects of entertainment.

[Ice Climbers]

Kirby has really been watered down in recent versions of SSB. In the original 64 version, I could raelly pwn with him. But now, he just has little to no attack power.

And Roy is the best character in the game, IMO. I can pwn ANYONE with him. I Beat the 100-man melee with him in SSBM. His target test was ridiculously difficult, though.

I haven't played this latest version yet, but I plan to at the earliest opportunity. I'm in college, though, and I'm not sure I can afford to waste money on "frivolous" objects of entertainment.

O_O Roy's target test was hard??? I though Dr. Mario's was the hardest :heh: (or even Marth's is a little harder than Roy's, but that is just IMHO)

Mm frankly I think Marth is a better character than Roy since his regular attacks are WAY stronger (if you know where the part of the sword that hits that is :p)

@Klash- IMHO, I would have to say Jigglypuff is a better character than Kirby. Not only are her attacks stronger but also with Pound (as mentioned b4) you can get back to the stage easily. And with certain amount of practice her Down+B move would be almost automatic hit (well, rephrase, a lot of practice, it was like 2 minutes for my friend but I still cant get it :heh:). 30~40% and Rest and you're a goner :D


The addition of the Pokemon trainer adds a certain diversity to this new generation. Wonder how the pokemons differ from each other and from those that appear from the pokeball :p

Man i can't wait until this game is released but hey i gotta get a Wii first :heh:

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

Speaking of third party, how come there is zero update on Snake? There should be at least some info seeing how popular he is. New adventure mode seems really nice, Melee's adventure mode was pretty fun, but it was really repetitive to beat it again and again for those damn trophies.

well maybe the reason why they don't update anything on Snake is because he's a third party character and he'll be a secret character from the start.
I guess the creator might fear that he might be spoiling way too much on secret characters, especially if its a third party character.
Anyways, if I remember correctly, the creator of Smash bro. just wanted up to 2 or maybe 3 more third party characters, excluding Snake.
Many want Sonic in the game...and I think thats already a given, since there is a game called "Mario and Sonic at the Olympic games" videogame coming out later this year.
The Wario Ware stage in today's update looks really interesting...reminds me of mr.game and watch's stage in melee.
And I'm sure that Snake's move set will be pretty unique...they gotta avoid the use of guns and him smoking, since this is a NINTENDO game and Nintendo always appeal to all audiences of age.

[Klashikari]

Kirby has really been watered down in recent versions of SSB. In the original 64 version, I could raelly pwn with him. But now, he just has little to no attack power.
That's true, Kirby was more likely toned down for its attack power and some of his velocity.
And Roy is the best character in the game, IMO. I can pwn ANYONE with him. I Beat the 100-man melee with him in SSBM. His target test was ridiculously difficult, though.It is of course a matter of opinion. However, I favour Marth much more.
As a matter of fact, Marth is faster and heavier. (i don't get how Roy is so light... i mean, he is even lighter than Luigi)
I favour way much how a character can be versatile and avoid unecessary skirmish. An for that matter, Marth's falshion is much better for my tastes.
In general, while Roy most likely deal more damage with the middle of the sword, Marth has a more safe way to deal them, and the knock effect is constant, and already high on slight damage char. To be quite accurate, Marth smash/shield breaker (B) can knock down 80% (60% for jiggly, kirby and pichu) char with the tip of the sword on "usual" medium sized stages

As for Roy's blazing sword, i must say that the balance of his blade is completely unconsistant. Somestimes, he just deal knocking blow more powerful than anyone and sometimes... it is regular (both when the target is hit with the middle of his blade). i believe the hitbox is extremely awkward.
another problem with his weapon is the fact he has 2 weak spots : the tip, but also in proximity. If you are sticking your oppenent, it will be a silly dull blow.

This is extremely annoying for the foward B, especially the first 3 combo dance. Basically, the "dance" range is short, as Roy use his blade in bias, and even thrust with it. Only the last move, the fourth one, is effective, and the problem is : Roy is MUCH SLOWER than marth in general, even in execution of move. thus, when he is spinning for the fourth blade slash, he is vulnerable.

As both FE characters suck in air, Roy suck even more, as hitting with the middle of the sword is much harder, and doesn't deal substancial damage/knock either. Much worse, Roy doesn't have a Meteor smash, unlike Marth.

Roy's counter attack is... geh... short, but like his smash/blaze sword (B) moves, completely unbalanced in scale of knocking back. But usually, if you don't counter a severely damaged oppenent (80+), it won't be effective...
Marth's counter move is much longer, and doesn't suffer of the sword issue. of course, he doesn't have the ability to knock afar out of proportion, but the knock is very constant, even against undamaged/slightly damage char (<40)

finally, but not the least, Roy's upwards B attack is fine, and can be annoying, but doesn't knock or deal substancial damage.
Marth is much more tricky to hit properly with dolphin strike, and can leave you extremely vulnerable if you miss. but on the other hand, even if it is not perfectly done, the oppenent is somewhat flying. The execution of the move is so fast that it is hardly possible to avoid it.

i still can see how roy can be favored for his very high brutal abilities. (when i begun Melee, i favored much more Roy and he was ma favourite contestant, until i "mastered" Marth some weeks later, and i see the abyssal differences)
Just to me, Roy has only that thing, and Marth is much more versatile and efficient.


@Klash- IMHO, I would have to say Jigglypuff is a better character than Kirby. Not only are her attacks stronger but also with Pound (as mentioned b4) you can get back to the stage easily. And with certain amount of practice her Down+B move would be almost automatic hit (well, rephrase, a lot of practice, it was like 2 minutes for my friend but I still cant get it :heh:). 30~40% and Rest and you're a goner :D
Stronger, i don't believe so. As Jiggly is supposed to be a aerial queen, her aerial combo is plain weak (as it was rather good in N64). Let's not mention the ridiculous "knock" effect on pound.
Kirby has a much better move set, though the lack of raw power is a problem, he doesn't have range issue unlike jiggly.

To be quite honest, i don't get the usefulness of pound, considering the usual structure of the arena : in advanced play, people usually want you to be down quick, so they use meteor smash on your face. That means you need to recover HEIGHT and not distance.
As result, many character favouring distance are screwed (especially DK and Bowser, who REALLY suck to recover height)
and even if we take "usual" skirmish, arena are rarely very wide. that mean that it is very unlikely that you need to cover lot of distance. either you are already dead, or you are safe without that many. As far as i could play on Melee, i rarely saw Kirby unable to recover from a knock back if he is still alive.

frankly, Rest doesn't worth the risk, and you have to perform it while mid air, which require much more attention, timing, and if the oppenent is slower than you. This is even more reckless in a true melee, with 4 players. It is impossible to use rest, or the 3 others are just slowpokes.


The addition of the Pokemon trainer adds a certain diversity to this new generation. Wonder how the pokemons differ from each other and from those that appear from the pokeball :pas far as i can see, they will most likely use pokemon from Gol/silver/ruby/saphirre/diamond/pearl, to avoid any confusion with the "first" generation. sole exception is of course goldeen :heh:

[SooHip]

i wonder if they'll keep shieks transformation through zelda..i hope they do! shes one of my best.
Same with Dr. Mario =T

But if they are keeping guys like Dr.Mario or Gannonorf or falco or w/e..im guessing theyr gonna have thier own set of moves. unlike being the "stronger" or more "faster" version of those almost the same characters. i.e. gannondof and cpt. falcon, falco and fox, marth and roy..etc etc..

[Klashikari]

That really depend. there are very interesting "clones".
Ganondorf and Cpt Falcon playstyles are EXTREMELY different, despite the blunt "Speed-Strength" difference.

the same can be applied with Roy.

but indeed the rest is extremely disappointing considering the "slight change", or even downgrade. (obviously, pichu. then Young link doesn't worth the loss of weight, strength and range, for the simple speed and jump abilities...)

Interestingly, some "original" characters are also joke (or even worse than "side grade clones"):
Ness (utterly nerfed from N64), Mr Game and Watch (erratic playstyle, not efficient mindgame), Mewtwo (goofy "supposed" heavy ranged char), jigglypuff and in a certain extent, Kirby and Pikachu.

of course, this is only my personal tastes, but i hope they will be able to balance the game more like N64 version than melee. (to be fairly honest, the damage scale and knock back aren't constant in melee. too much luck factor in some cases (Roy/bowser/ganondorf UBER knock out coming twice each 10-15 tries, etc)

[Alexandrite]

i wonder if they'll keep shieks transformation through zelda..i hope they do! shes one of my best.
Same with Dr. Mario =T

The way I see it, Shiek making a return seems iffy at best. They upgraded Link to his appearance in Twilight Princess and gave him items that reflect this change. Zelda's appearance has changed similarly, but I have no idea what that could mean for her play style. The only time you got to see her in action in Twilight Princess was at the end of the game, but I don't know if that can be seen as a true reflection of her abilities. Oddly, if they use bits from Twilight Princess with her, at some point you may see her wielding a sword. And while I'm on the topic of swords, if Ganondorf makes a reappearance, I hope they change his moveset up a bit and let him use his sword this time around. You could see it in his victory stance at the end of a match, but other than that, nada.

And while I'm talking about Twilight Princess, Midna would be kind of a fun add in, though I'm not sure how likely that is despite all of the TP material.

I just pray that Pichu is gone. He was pretty much worthless, in my opinion. And cut Dr. Mario, Falco, and Young Link too unless they get a changed moveset - I'd much prefer to see original characters than an abundance of copies.

December can't get here fast enough. :heh:

[SooHip]

[QUOTE=Alexandrite;1124493]

And while I'm talking about Twilight Princess, Midna would be kind of a fun add in, [QUOTE]

That would be so awesome! ^^b

[Js2756]

Snip

Wow, there was so much misinformation in that post it was making my head spin. Roy is not a great aerial fighter, but Marth is one of the best. He's got an incredibly good aerial set, and not one of his aerial moves would be considered below average. Ken combos for easy kills, disjoint hitbox on the sword, easy comboability on nearly all of his aerials, I don't see how he is not a good aerial fighter.

And Jigglypuff does have a good aerial moveset. Her forward and back airs are incredibly good and have large hitboxes that extend far from her body. Pound covers a large distance and easy knocks her opponent off her feet. In fact, there are few characters who have an easy time dealing with repeated forward/back airs to their face, and the hitbox is so far from her body, that Jiggly is safe even if shield guarded most of the time. Pound IS useful for recovery, since at high levels of play (i.e. tourney play), you get a counterstage pick, meaning most Jiggly players will pick Dreamland 64 (a Jiggly, Peach, Samus dreamstage) or DK 64. Vertical kills are still frequent, but not as high as you think they are.

At high levels of play, a lot of players do not rely on meteors for kills. Fox relies a lot on shine spikes, Marth can use his meteor a lot, but most of the other top characters do not need or rely on their spikes (maybe Falco, but he still has lots of other tools). Most definitely not someone like Peach, Shiek, or Captain Falcon who have much better and easier options. Even Marth, who has a really good spike, doesn't even need it very often since his edgeguarding is so damn good.

[Klashikari]

Wow, there was so much misinformation in that post it was making my head spin. Roy is not a great aerial fighter, but Marth is one of the best. He's got an incredibly good aerial set, and not one of his aerial moves would be considered below average. Ken combos for easy kills, disjoint hitbox on the sword, easy comboability on nearly all of his aerials, I don't see how he is not a good aerial fighter.
as far as i know, this was only my opnion and comparaison to another one.
secondly, I didn't imply they were that shitty, just because i used the word "suck". To me, their aerial abilities is below what they usually do because of the lack of movements and adaption while mid air, but are clearly not the worst you can find around. The mention of the "weapon" issue is only for Roy. That said, the damage output of Marth aerial attack is exactly that good, but aside of it, i never felt it was that problematic in air with him, unlike Roy, who is a complete pain with his sword "optimum" hitbox.

again, i might not be exactly accurate, but i believe i didn't imply what you were thinking of my comments.

And Jigglypuff does have a good aerial moveset. Her forward and back airs are incredibly good and have large hitboxes that extend far from her body.Far is kinda subjective. As far as i could feel (and this is based on experience from several years ago, so i can't exactly flesh my memories quite well), the reach of Jigglypuff don't really make it, along with the stoic and kinda "slow" reaction. that's an observation i had, that's it.
Pound covers a large distance and easy knocks her opponent off her feet. In fact, there are few characters who have an easy time dealing with repeated forward/back airs to their face, and the hitbox is so far from her body, that Jiggly is safe even if shield guarded most of the time. Pound IS useful for recovery, since at high levels of play (i.e. tourney play), you get a counterstage pick, meaning most Jiggly players will pick Dreamland 64 (a Jiggly, Peach, Samus dreamstage) or DK 64. Vertical kills are still frequent, but not as high as you think they are.Huh... that's why i said Pound isn't exactly that good, since its "effective" air recovery aspect is overestimated in general because of few stage. it is fairly too dependant of this context, and thus, isn't exactly relevant, especially if you must consider the default 5 double jump.

of course, the good side of the pound is probably the annoying knock/hitstun aspect of it.

At high levels of play, a lot of players do not rely on meteors for kills. Fox relies a lot on shine spikes, Marth can use his meteor a lot, but most of the other top characters do not need or rely on their spikes (maybe Falco, but he still has lots of other tools). Most definitely not someone like Peach, Shiek, or Captain Falcon who have much better and easier options. Even Marth, who has a really good spike, doesn't even need it very often since his edgeguarding is so damn good.I never implied that everyone rely on meteor smash, or they will spam it (it is not a safe option, especially for obvious issues with "tap stick" with can be desastrous for those who trigger the fast fall without wanting it)
That said, there are many way to kill, and as far as i can tell, drop/meteor kill are a fair number among usual KO
Of course, it might be outdated considering how the "tournament" format work recently (and i don't really check on this anyway)

[Demongod86]

Wow, there was so much misinformation in that post it was making my head spin. Roy is not a great aerial fighter, but Marth is one of the best. He's got an incredibly good aerial set, and not one of his aerial moves would be considered below average. Ken combos for easy kills, disjoint hitbox on the sword, easy comboability on nearly all of his aerials, I don't see how he is not a good aerial fighter.

And Jigglypuff does have a good aerial moveset. Her forward and back airs are incredibly good and have large hitboxes that extend far from her body. Pound covers a large distance and easy knocks her opponent off her feet. In fact, there are few characters who have an easy time dealing with repeated forward/back airs to their face, and the hitbox is so far from her body, that Jiggly is safe even if shield guarded most of the time. Pound IS useful for recovery, since at high levels of play (i.e. tourney play), you get a counterstage pick, meaning most Jiggly players will pick Dreamland 64 (a Jiggly, Peach, Samus dreamstage) or DK 64. Vertical kills are still frequent, but not as high as you think they are.

At high levels of play, a lot of players do not rely on meteors for kills. Fox relies a lot on shine spikes, Marth can use his meteor a lot, but most of the other top characters do not need or rely on their spikes (maybe Falco, but he still has lots of other tools). Most definitely not someone like Peach, Shiek, or Captain Falcon who have much better and easier options. Even Marth, who has a really good spike, doesn't even need it very often since his edgeguarding is so damn good.

Not sure about Peach but Sheik has no spike. Her DAir actually launches your opponents UP. As for Falcon, if you can spike them, you can knee them nearly as easily. That said, for this newbie, Falcon is so hard to play correctly since I can't SHFFL :(. It doesn't make someone like DarkRain, SilentSpectre, Tapion, or G-Regulate any less interesting to watch, though.

[Aoie_Emesai]

My friend still has my Wii, I better go get it soon :)

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

I like the way how Yoshi does his meteor to his opponents...I've been good with Yoshi ever since smash bro. and he still has his good qualities in him in Melee...hopefully he isn't changed much in Brawl.

[Js2756]

Not sure about Peach but Sheik has no spike. Her DAir actually launches your opponents UP. As for Falcon, if you can spike them, you can knee them nearly as easily. That said, for this newbie, Falcon is so hard to play correctly since I can't SHFFL :(. It doesn't make someone like DarkRain, SilentSpectre, Tapion, or G-Regulate any less interesting to watch, though.

You're right, I forgot that Sheik doesn't have a spike. I almost never use her D-Air for air to air combat, so I just assumed that it spikes. Peach has two spikes, D-Air, and D-Tilt (but it won't spike an opponent holding onto a ledge :twitch:). Good luck getting the positioning right to land either of them though.

[Terrestrial Dream]

So they have a new update with Diddy Kong's special move. I don't think I will use him from what I saw.

[sasuke _snake]

i think diddy's finale smash is going to be playing his guitar

[sasuke _snake]

there probaly going to take out luigi

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

No ways can they take out Luigi...he's too good and he's been part of the Smash Brothers roster for a long time now.

From the newest update, looks like we can create our own music playlist from the variety of songs thats going to be included for the game. Thats a pretty cool feature and it looks like you can select up to 4 different music BGMs in the playlist and all of them will merge throughout the time played in the stage.

[Klashikari]

I'm not exactly sure how Luigi can be "good", as he is REALLY stiff, and his moves are too random (the Up B has a very very tiny hitbox, much like Marth's, the forward B is really mediocre...)

but there is almost no way they will remove Luigi, as he is a CORE part of Nintendo franchise, along with Mario.
If Mario is in a multi player game, i don't see how Luigi will be removed.

[sasuke _snake]

they think he's to much of a mario clone

[Sety]

I'm not exactly sure how Luigi can be "good", as he is REALLY stiff, and his moves are too random (the Up B has a very very tiny hitbox, much like Marth's, the forward B is really mediocre...)


You only ever use the forward B for recovery, its suicide to use it for actual fighting.

Luigi has always been considered quite high tier in SSBM because of a few major reasons being hes essentially Mario with much higher power and jumping ability without much of a loss in speed.

The second being if you can wavedash regularly than he can cover an entire screen in literally less than a second. Which also leads onto the fact he can charge smash attacks while moving.

[Demongod86]

I'm just hoping they'll fix falcon's shitty special moves and give him a good recovery.

[Klashikari]

You only ever use the forward B for recovery, its suicide to use it for actual fighting.
I perfectly know this. the issue is that Luigi has more likely 2 "only air recovery" moves. UP B isn't really practical for actual combat.

Luigi has always been considered quite high tier in SSBM because of a few major reasons being hes essentially Mario with much higher power and jumping ability without much of a loss in speed. to be quite honest, i never saw him as "high tier" and never saw such claim when i lurked on various SSBM boards. "Much higher power" isn't exactly what i can judge, especially it is more like knock back effects, and some random damage ratio (much worse than Roy so to speak)

and seriously, i feel the loss of speed and the slippy tendecy he got are really a handicap.
I didn't implyed he was mediocre, (and i even put good with ", to put emphasis how it can be considered), but frankly, i feel him quite average.

The second being if you can wavedash regularly than he can cover an entire screen in literally less than a second. Which also leads onto the fact he can charge smash attacks while moving.Yes, i can't say his huge wavedash isn't an advantage. however, i don't feel it as that important, as a "simple" wavedash is suffisent (heck, even the slowpoke link wavedash is... ok :heh:)

as for charging smash attacks while moving, can't really comment about this, ho well.

[sasuke _snake]

i dont think falco's going to be in it

[iwubanime]

Anyone else excited about the music update on Friday? I personally loved it. It just sorta makes SSBB that much more of a great game to own. Being able to pick your favorite songs (or choose a variety of songs) is a great addition.

Plus adding the CD as another collectible was a good choice IMO. Never hurts to have more things to keep me busy :)

[Spectacular_Insanity]

I hope they keep Roy. I love his counter and Blaze attacks. There's nothing quite like a one-hit KO (w/out items!) when your opponent's not paying attention.... :D

Though, frankly, except for Pichu, Jigglypuff, Donkey Kong, amd Ness, I can use all characters very easily, depending on the situation. Word of advice: only use Ganondorf for ffa fights. He gets pwnt in one-on-one, unless your really, really good.

I hope they keep the simplicity of the controls in SSBB so anyone can play. That's what makes it so easy to get good at every single character.

And above all, I hope for Captain Falcon, they keep "the Knee". That move is awesome, and can be chained together so easily..... lol i laugh just thinking about a video someone made of Falcon's Knee attack hitting some random player again and again.

[Js2756]

Though, frankly, except for Pichu, Jigglypuff, Donkey Kong, amd Ness, I can use all characters very easily, depending on the situation. Word of advice: only use Ganondorf for ffa fights. He gets pwnt in one-on-one, unless your really, really good.


Ganondorf does fine 1v1. He only really has problems with the characters in the top tiers (Marth, Fox, Falco, Sheik, Peach). Everyone else, he can go toe to toe with. The trick is to keep things simple, and stay the hell away from his stupidly risky moves (up tilt, warlock punch, forward smash) unless you can guarantee yourself a hit. It's best to stick with his strong aerial attacks, his jab (best in the game), throws, and forward tilt, and occasionally mix things up with forward + B. The key to remember with Ganondorf is that he outranges nearly all the characters in the game, so you don't have to get as close as you think you do. It's all about being patient and continually doing some damage, as he doesn't have to get the percentages high to get his kills.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

the latest update has made me disappointed...I was hoping for Lyn to be a playable character...not an assist trophy!
she had a deep storyline in the Fire emblem universe.
This was the most disappointing update for me.

[Otani-kun]

the latest update has made me disappointed...I was hoping for Lyn to be a playable character...not an assist trophy!

Same here..

Well, its not that dissapointing though. At least they put her in
the game. x)

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

Same here..

Well, its not that dissapointing though. At least they put her in
the game. x)

yea that is true, although I really did see Lyn as a potential playable character...certain forums, especially Gamefaqs forums, were really on high hopes for Lyn to be playable...oh wells, atleast she's an assist trophy and atleast she's in the game.
disappointing, but I'll get over it once the game is released.:D

[Mirrinus]

yea that is true, although I really did see Lyn as a potential playable character...certain forums, especially Gamefaqs forums, were really on high hopes for Lyn to be playable...oh wells, atleast she's an assist trophy and atleast she's in the game.
disappointing, but I'll get over it once the game is released.:D

Eh...depends on which GameFAQs forums. The Fire Emblem VII board there is fairly adamant against Lyn being a playable character, due to her not being unique enough compared to the multitude of other sword users in SSB and her relative unimportance in the plot (to say nothing of how unpopular in general she is due to some stupid fad). And one of the prime supporters of Lyn on the SSBB boards is almost undoubtably a troll anyway...I never thought she'd make it as a playable character, to be honest.

Give me Hector or Celice, or even Leaf. :P

[Klashikari]

What about Marcus? :heh:

geh... It doesn't look like either a "blade lord" normal crit nor sol katti crit >_>

[Terrestrial Dream]

Eh...depends on which GameFAQs forums. The Fire Emblem VII board there is fairly adamant against Lyn being a playable character, due to her not being unique enough compared to the multitude of other sword users in SSB and her relative unimportance in the plot (to say nothing of how unpopular in general she is due to some stupid fad). And one of the prime supporters of Lyn on the SSBB boards is almost undoubtably a troll anyway...I never thought she'd make it as a playable character, to be honest.

Give me Hector or Celice, or even Leaf. :P What? Lyn could use bow and sword in the game and that makes her unique enough to be playable character imo. I mean Marth and Roy only used sword and they manage to put many different move in the game. Yeah I agree that Lyn did have low chance being a playable character, but she fits my style very well, because of her speed. It does suck that she won't be playable, but I hope they keep Marth at least.

[Mirrinus]

What? Lyn could use bow and sword in the game and that makes her unique enough to be playable character imo. I mean Marth and Roy only used sword and they manage to put many different move in the game. Yeah I agree that Lyn did have low chance being a playable character, but she fits my style very well, because of her speed. It does suck that she won't be playable, but I hope they keep Marth at least.

Well, a sword user with a bow isn't exactly a new concept for SSB...we've already got Link, Young Link, and now Pit (well, dagger = sword for me :P).

Now, an axe or spear user for SSB would be much fresher, IMHO.

[Sety]

Give me Hector or Celice, or even Leaf. :P

Throw in Sigurd and THEn we're talking.

I'll settle for some Celice though.

the latest update has made me disappointed...I was hoping for Lyn to be a playable character...not an assist trophy!
she had a deep storyline in the Fire emblem universe.
This was the most disappointing update for me.
What story? Her story consisted of a short 10 chapter tutorial with generic 'plot' if you could call it that and the place she comes from is almost as good as non-canon in the Lycian map. After which she spends most of the game just flashing her butt.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Well, a sword user with a bow isn't exactly a new concept for SSB...we've already got Link, Young Link, and now Pit (well, dagger = sword for me :P).

Now, an axe or spear user for SSB would be much fresher, IMHO. True but I don't think they will have Young Link anymore, I heard that they replaced him with cel-shaded Link from WW. Anyhow spear might be cool but only main character that use spear in FE as far as know is Eliwood and that guy from FE 8, both I don't really like. Having Hector would be nice, but we already got a heavy fighter from FE so I would say that next FE character should be fast one (still my Hector in FE7 was always freaking fast).

[Kaioshin Sama]

True but I don't think they will have Young Link anymore, I heard that they replaced him with cel-shaded Link from WW. Anyhow spear might be cool but only main character that use spear in FE as far as know is Eliwood and that guy from FE 8, both I don't really like. Having Hector would be nice, but we already got a heavy fighter from FE so I would say that next FE character should be fast one (still my Hector in FE7 was always freaking fast).

Sigurd uses Lances, and so does Celice once promoted.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Sigurd uses Lances, and so does Celice once promoted. Problem is that I didn't play snes FE so I don't know them, but planning to play them later.

[Mirrinus]

Eh, Sigurd's personality kind of bored me (plus his relationship with Diadora felt way too forced), but I have no doubt he'd be a cool character to have in SSB. Problem is, his main weapon is still the sword (they'd probably give him Tyrfing or something), so he's still not unique enough. Leaf, at least, can use a much wider array of weaponry.

Of course, best case scenario for me would be if someone like Sety or Levin made it in to SSB, but I doubt that'll happen...hehehe, Holsety as a final smash...</fanboy>

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

Hector would make a good character in Brawl, but he could turn out to be a heavy character. Sakurai (the guy creating the game) did mention that Ike is already a heavy character and that some of his special attacks doesn't make him flinch.
Adding in a mage from Fire emblem into Brawl would be an interesting change.
As for Lyn's story in Fire emblem, her story was short, but I did like how it was used to be a tutorial for the game. Anyways, it was the first fire emblem game to hit US and it was the first fire emblem game that I've played.

[Scarecrow*]

Diddy! Just so happy he's there.

Aside from Solid Snake, he's the BEST addition to this game.

[Sety]

Eh, Sigurd's personality kind of bored me (plus his relationship with Diadora felt way too forced), but I have no doubt he'd be a cool character to have in SSB. Problem is, his main weapon is still the sword (they'd probably give him Tyrfing or something), so he's still not unique enough. Leaf, at least, can use a much wider array of weaponry.
If they used Leaf it'd be more likely FE5 Leaf in other words unpromoted Leaf with nothing except the Light Sword.

Sigurd probably be different in style. For one thing hes much older, already (and the only) pre-promoted Lord and he'd probably have much different mannerisms than the others. Keep in mind unlike the other FE Lords who were mainly kids raised in common environments Sigurd was a noble through and through. Hes also a fully graduated millitary officer as I recall too.

Also FE4 should really deserve a place somewhere in SSB as playable being the shining point of the FE series it should be the next logical step. Poster boy of FE (Marth), most recent FE than the most successful FE. To date there still hasn't been a single FE game which matched FE4 in pure sales.
(Fun fact FE9 aka Path of Radiance/Souen no Kiseki actually did pretty bad in JP even to the point of being upstaged/outsold by a game Nintendo sued for plagiarism.)

[Spectacular_Insanity]

I dont think its about your favorite characters making the cut, its about their usability. If they start sucking, there's no point to play them (e.g. Kirby, who got seriously watered-down in the translation from SSB to SSBM).

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

yay the ice climbers are back!
and they look good in their new character designs...now if they made it back, I wonder if it could be said the same for Mr.Game and Watch...alot of people didn't like the Ice climbers and Mr.G&W.

[krysinello]

The Ice climbers came back cause they were one of the better characters once you mastered them. G&W I aint too confident for. Young Link probably wont make it unfortunately, and possibly Pichu.

[Sety]

yay the ice climbers are back!
and they look good in their new character designs...now if they made it back, I wonder if it could be said the same for Mr.Game and Watch...alot of people didn't like the Ice climbers and Mr.G&W.

Actually there was a rather strong cult following for Mr G&W, plus hes pretty strong actually just too light.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

young link may come back but as probably "WindWaker" Link?
I mean with Phantom Hourglass coming out soon next month, it would up his chances...somewhat.:heh:

[Otani-kun]

Anything but Mr Game & Watch. o_O

No doubt he's a pretty strong character, but he looks lame and the sounds he
makes are just plain annoying.

Still hoping they'll put Sonic in the game. (Yeah, I'm one of those Sonic fanboys who wants to see him in SSBB xP)

[Alexandrite]

Hm. I wasn't really a fan of the Ice Climbers, so to me it's not a big deal to see them come back. I suppose they weren't the worst characters though, especially with that double item bit.

The only characters I truly do not want to see make a reappearance are Game & Watch and Pichu. Especially Pichu.

I'm also sad that Lyn is only an assist trophy. There need to be more playable female characters in Brawl. ^^

[Kaioshin Sama]

The Underworld Them Remix Confirmed For Pit (http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/music/music06.html)

YES! I KNEW THEY'D DO IT! This is the one and only song they could have rightfully chose for Pit, and the remix is just great, combining the quirky freak out music for the Grim Reaper enemy. This is the announcement I have been looking forward to since the game was announced. Even though I'm like a month late, the discovery is still news to me, and great news at that.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Actually there was a rather strong cult following for Mr G&W, plus hes pretty strong actually just too light.

Trick to using Mr G&W is getting in that first hit, and a bit of luck when using his special hammer move, though getting a 9 is quite rare. Frankly he is really useful against projectile based characters (like Samus, maybe Link) using his down+B Bucket Panic (I think that's what its called).

[Ice Climbers]

Hm. I wasn't really a fan of the Ice Climbers, so to me it's not a big deal to see them come back. I suppose they weren't the worst characters though, especially with that double item bit.

The only characters I truly do not want to see make a reappearance are Game & Watch and Pichu. Especially Pichu.

I'm also sad that Lyn is only an assist trophy. There need to be more playable female characters in Brawl. ^^

Hmm, why did my name show up here :heh:

Well I would just have to say, if people know how to use Ice Climbers they can be quite deadly (imagine the combos with essentially 2 characters in one :D) Though i never got to that level and i can't say I'm a pro with them (my best is Link, quite ironic i know), but they would be a nice addition to this new game.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Ooooh, i just looked at the official site, and it looks like thay have a cool new character. The generic Pokemon trainer. Apparently he doesnt do any fighting directly, but instead has Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard do the fighting for him. Sounds as if thhey'll have different move sets, and you have to switch them out.

The info is here (http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/pokemon_trainer.html).

The other new characters are Pit, Wario, Zero Suit Samus (Samus w/out Power Suit), Ike, Diddy Kong, and Meta Knight.

Coolest new characters:
Zero Suit Samus (She's hot, and the whip looks cool)
Ike (I love FE, and his move Aether sounds really powerful!)
Pokemon Trainer (Sounds like an interesting new way to battle)

[Never Knows Best]

I am so happy that they decided to bring the Ice Climbers back!!!!

There were posts like 6 or 7 months ago saying the maker has decided to take the ICs out of Brawl. This news tore me apart because I used to main ICs.

Ever since the new update on DOJO I was like "take that you jerk posters saying ICs are out!"

IC = Pro Teamwork.

[Sety]

Trick to using Mr G&W is getting in that first hit, and a bit of luck when using his special hammer move, though getting a 9 is quite rare. Frankly he is really useful against projectile based characters (like Samus, maybe Link) using his down+B Bucket Panic (I think that's what its called).

I wouldn't rely on that hammer move at all, if anything G&W's use comes through most from the aforementioned move, his high knockback manhole and highest recovery in the entire game so he can afford to crouch cancel alot.

(Seriously its official G&W has the highest recovery.)

[S_K]

Ike is going to be awesome, and I like how they added aether as that was his ultimate move in FE

[Spectacular_Insanity]

I wouldn't rely on that hammer move at all, if anything G&W's use comes through most from the aforementioned move, his high knockback manhole and highest recovery in the entire game so he can afford to crouch cancel alot.

(Seriously its official G&W has the highest recovery.)

No way. Zelda or Kirby have the best recoveries. Have you seen how far Zelda can warp? It's insane! :eyespin:

The only reason Kirby doesn't get any attention is because he so darn light, he never gets a chance to use his recovery. :rolleyes:

[Demongod86]

No way. Zelda or Kirby have the best recoveries. Have you seen how far Zelda can warp? It's insane! :eyespin:

The only reason Kirby doesn't get any attention is because he so darn light, he never gets a chance to use his recovery. :rolleyes:

It's also insane how hard it is to sweetspot the ledge with Zelda, and it's also insane how much lag time she has on the landing of that move.

As for Kirby's recovery, Jigglypuff is *far* better with pound recovery.

Peach's recovery forces you to flat out kill her rather than edgeguard her at any point. Either you outright kill her or she's coming back. Samus also has a LOL amazing recovery if you know how to use her bombjump.

[Mirrinus]

Yeah, I'd say Peach and Samus have the best recovery...bomb jumping Samus is a beast.

What's this I hear about characters with mostly horizontal up-B moves, like Donkey Kong, getting a retool of their recovery due to lack of vertical gain? This sounds intriguing.

[TakutoKun]

I look forward to this game. I put an advance order (pre-order) on it back in November 2006.

[Demongod86]

Yeah, I'd say Peach and Samus have the best recovery...bomb jumping Samus is a beast.

What's this I hear about characters with mostly horizontal up-B moves, like Donkey Kong, getting a retool of their recovery due to lack of vertical gain? This sounds intriguing.

Vertical gain is rarely meaningful. It takes far more effort to knock someone down below a certain vertical recovery point than it does to knock them out past horizontal recovery range. The worst types of recoveries are those with little horizontal recovery. However, Marth and Samus have the ability to turn some vertical into massive horizontal recoveries with =>B and bombjumping respectively.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Not only that, but you can also get your energy beam with Samus to extend. Look online for guides if you wanna know how. All I remeember is that it requires a lot of rotating the control stick, or something like that. It's tough to do, but I've done it. It gets about 3 times longer, which is REALLY useful for recovery, when grabbing onto walls/edges. You can't do the extension for Link's hookshot, unfortunately (since his recovery is complete crap - barely any vertical OR horizontal movement at all).

And I must disagree with you about jigglypuff. She's got 0 weight, so she's often too far away for pound to make a difference. She only gets 6 jumps, whereas Kirby gets 8. Doesn't sound like a huge difference, but when you can use stone once your back over the stage, theres less chance of someone getting a cheap shot in. That same kind of temporary invulnerability cannot be applied to Jigglypuff. Not to mention, I've tried using Pound to get over, but it doesn't work unless you're sent flying either really high or really close the edge of a stage. It barely moves Jigglypuff at all. If anything, I'd do a suicide B and try and get over that way.

And vertical travel DOES matter. If you watch the "How to Play" video, you'll see Mario make a recovery from offscreen. Other characters that don't have as much vertical distance in their recoveries (e.g. Peach, DK, or Link), could never have made such a recovery. Though, I usually use Marth or Roy anyway, so => B is a move I use a lot. It's really funny if I accidently hit the B button too fast.... Marth/Roy drops like a rock... :heh:

I use Roy more than any other character. Believe it or not, I actually beat Event 51 with him. It's all about timing your counter move so Roy takes no damage and can get in a free hit, but far enough from any other danger that he has time to recover. His B move that is like Marths shield breaker is a 1-hit KO if you charge it til it glows red (don't hold it down for full time or Roy takes damage). It's GREAT for edge-guarding. Don't use him for Event 50. Samus or Fox/Falco are much better. Yoshi's not too bad, either, as long as you keep in mind he only has one mid-air jump and no recovery.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

The golden hammer seems to be an over-the-top item...its almost invincible as the power star item in all of the smash brothers game.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Vertical gain is rarely meaningful. It takes far more effort to knock someone down below a certain vertical recovery point than it does to knock them out past horizontal recovery range. The worst types of recoveries are those with little horizontal recovery. However, Marth and Samus have the ability to turn some vertical into massive horizontal recoveries with =>B and bombjumping respectively.

Link's hookshot can be a real lifesaver on certain stages too if you can get the timing right. Samus's grapple beam can also latch to the stage but it's slower than Link's hookshot, I generally just rely on her bomb jumping.

Does anyone know if they're bringing Sheik back? She was my favorite character, on the light side, but ridiculously fast. She had the best juggling ability and her forward-A air punch was insanely strong, you could KO most characters with it at 60% no problem. I know they were modeling Zelda after the TWP version but I hope they bring back Sheik and don't change her too much.

I also hope they keep wave-dashing. That was a really fun spam move, especially with Luigi.

[Klashikari]

^ I hope they will fix glitches.
to be quite accurate, L cancel, wavedash etc are in essence glitches and thus, kinda something more like a bug exploit than an intended mechanic. (abusing an air dodge to get such dash just defy the intended purpose so)

it isn't something similar to the usual frame fest on 2D games such like GG, SF and MB.

[Demongod86]

^ I hope they will fix glitches.
to be quite accurate, L cancel, wavedash etc are in essence glitches and thus, kinda something more like a bug exploit than an intended mechanic. (abusing an air dodge to get such dash just defy the intended purpose so)

it isn't something similar to the usual frame fest on 2D games such like GG, SF and MB.

They were intended.

[Klashikari]

I would have no problem with the L cancel but... the wavedash? intended?
i think it is kinda dubious, considering how the animation of the character frames is kinda messed up. The fact the character still "glide" while air dodging is suspicious to me. (ground dodge and air dodge were meant to leave the character very vulnerable if not used against an attack, as the recovery isn't really great)

if it is supposed to be intended, i don't see why a "ground glide" require to play with an aerial movement.

[Onepiece34]

How can anybody say Jyglipuff is a good character? "Jyglipuff used fall asleep move"... Yeah, great... (not joking, down+b, try it)

I use Link, and I'm pretty hardcore at Smash Bros. Melee. I use Sheik and Samus and Ganondorf for a range of different styles. I'll probably use Meta Knight the whole way through Brawl though LOL. Anyway, I really want to see Krystal, Sonic and a Square Enix character, it can be done!

[Onepiece34]

And Ice CLimbers were terrible as well. They depend on each other, if one falls of accidentaly, then the other is screwed or dead anyway. Their moves are terrible and slow and usually end up falling to their doom. They are annoying, pointless and terrible to play as, HOW CAN ANYBODY PLAY AS THEM?!

[DeshoDesho]

the game looks good,but i must wait for a final list of Characters to say that i will buy it
more Fire Emblem stuff,also

[Spectacular_Insanity]

I wish people would stop saying "I want more characters from game X". If you want to see more characters from your favorite game, go PLAY that game. SSB is meant to have fun with characters from different games and mix things up. We cant be filling it up with minor characters from games like Fire Emblem, for one thing. Not to mention, it's not your decision anyway, so just wait and see. Be thankful that they are making another game in the first place.

However, Krystal was a character I was so sure they'd include, but now I'm not sure sure. It won't affect my decision to buy the game, of course, but it's something that might peak my interest. Goes for Sonic as well, though I think he was a longshot because he's not a Nintendo character.

Speaking of non-Nintendo characters, what's the latest news on Snake being in SSBB? Is he still gonna be in it? I'm beginning to wonder....

and @ Onepiece34: Jigglypuff"s Down+B move ("Rest") is quite powerful. Just like Luigi's Super Jump Punch attack, you have to be touching the other character in order to get the powerful execution. Otherwise, she just falls asleep, does no damage, and is completely open to attack. Timing and a bit of luck are key here. I'm not saying she's a good character, though. In fact, I think she sucks. But that's one good move she does have.

I agree with you about the Ice Climbers, though. They did pretty much suck. If you lost either Popo or Nana (depending on which you chose to be the "main player") you not only lose a lot of power from your normal attacks (half, obviously), but you also lose any chance of recovery. Not the best character to work with. Also, if the two got seperated, the AI is really dumb, and gets KO'd easily. The only good thing about that character was if you managed to trap an opponent between the two and hit them back-and-forth like a punching bag. :D

Ness was also pathetic. His physical attacks were watered down a lot (compared to SSB), and his psychic attacks took far too long to execute, and his recovery is too difficult to use in chaotic situations, especially if obstacles or other players were around. if you accidently hit someone else with PK Thunder, you'd shock them a tiny bit then plummet to your death. >_<

Best Characters (IMO):
Marth/Roy: I personally used Roy more often because he has a bit more punch to his attacks, but Marth is a lot faster, and has a looping basic attack. Both characters are really effective and practically untouchable if you can master the use of their Counter and -> B moves.
Ganondorf: He's sub-average in 1-on-1, IMO (due to his lack of speed), but it's really FFA battles when he shows his stuff. He can rack up amazing kill ratios (I got 37 in one 15-minute game, with setting at +1 for kills, -1 for deaths and -2 for SD's) due to his incredible power.
Fox/Falco: Not typical favorites, but I like Fox for his ability to rack up a surprising amount of damage with his blaster from long range. He's especially effective against Link and Samus, who have a lot of ranged attacks. It's fun to fire a Ray Gun into someone (live person) who has their shield on, and then turn yours on and see whose Reflector shield breaks first (yes, they can indeed shatter after a long time). Fox is also lighter than in SSB, so he has a better recovery. In SSB, he fell like a friggin' brick. As a bonus, if you hit -> <- -> <- repeatedly while on a StarFox stage, you get the communiques from the other pilots, their dialogue random and determined by your current character. It turns off if you take damage or die, and can only be used once per game.
Samus: Bomb-jump, 'nuff said. :D
Mario: Best all-around chracter, if you just can't figure out who you wanna use to kick butt. After all, he is the standard on which all other characters are based for a reason.
Pikachu: okay, he's not the most oft-used either, but on open-air stages (e.g. Final Destination), he can get crazy juggling in (though not as good as Sheik - however, I don't use Sheik due to her weak smash attacks). Just watch out for Kirby's Stone move. Pikachu was a personal fav from the original SSB.

I'm fully aware that some people, even many people, might disagree with me, but there you have it. Other characters have their merits, strengths and weaknesses, and i use them often just to change things up, but I like these characters the best. Especially Roy. :)

[DeshoDesho]

maybe not characters but Music,and Trophies
Meta Knight was announced at the same time as Snake,and until recently,he wasnt in the page,Snake is Coming,not to worry

[Js2756]

Considering that Ice Climbers can KO any character from 0% off of 1 throw, they don't suck.

Best characters (1v1) are:
Falco
Fox
Marth
Sheik
Peach

It's somewhat sad that a lot of people say that certain characters suck when they don't, Jigglypuff and Ganondorf in particular have been singled out in this thread. I've already explained why they are good earlier in the thread, so I won't bother repeating myself.

Roy is one character though, that I have to say is not anywhere near as good as most people make him out to be. He's got crap combos, because positioning with him is required to prevent those non-knockback hits, and his aerials are way worse than Marth's because of them too. Go beyond an intermediate level of play and you'll find that his forward smash and neutral B are nowhere near as effective. They're laggy, and get you punished. That doesn't leave him with much. He's not terrible, but in terms of rankings, he just above the middle of the pack.

[Ice Climbers]

They were intended.

=O so the wave dashes were intended?? I have seen it being talked about on the Official Nintendo Magazine, but i never knew they were intended :heh:

Oh yay, they decided to bring my namesake back :D

[Demongod86]

Considering that Ice Climbers can KO any character from 0% off of 1 throw, they don't suck.

Best characters (1v1) are:
Falco
Fox
Marth
Sheik
Peach

It's somewhat sad that a lot of people say that certain characters suck when they don't, Jigglypuff and Ganondorf in particular have been singled out in this thread. I've already explained why they are good earlier in the thread, so I won't bother repeating myself.

Roy is one character though, that I have to say is not anywhere near as good as most people make him out to be. He's got crap combos, because positioning with him is required to prevent those non-knockback hits, and his aerials are way worse than Marth's because of them too. Go beyond an intermediate level of play and you'll find that his forward smash and neutral B are nowhere near as effective. They're laggy, and get you punished. That doesn't leave him with much. He's not terrible, but in terms of rankings, he just above the middle of the pack.

Do I have to show you silentspectre videos to make you say you forgot to put captain falcon on that list?

[Terrestrial Dream]

Considering that Ice Climbers can KO any character from 0% off of 1 throw, they don't suck.

Best characters (1v1) are:
Falco
Fox
Marth
Sheik
Peach

It's somewhat sad that a lot of people say that certain characters suck when they don't, Jigglypuff and Ganondorf in particular have been singled out in this thread. I've already explained why they are good earlier in the thread, so I won't bother repeating myself.

Roy is one character though, that I have to say is not anywhere near as good as most people make him out to be. He's got crap combos, because positioning with him is required to prevent those non-knockback hits, and his aerials are way worse than Marth's because of them too. Go beyond an intermediate level of play and you'll find that his forward smash and neutral B are nowhere near as effective. They're laggy, and get you punished. That doesn't leave him with much. He's not terrible, but in terms of rankings, he just above the middle of the pack. I agree on Roy, before I used Roy all the time and I would always get owned to my friend. Then I decide to screw around and switch to Marth, and damn I owned him so badly. And I thought all those wavedash type of move were glitch so I never really bother to learn them, if they aren't a glitch then maybe I should try to learn them.

[bobjoemac]

lol I use jigglypuff and kick butt :P assuming jigglypuff is the same as it was in melee I would gladly use online play to show you a true mastered jigglypuff death ball :P

[Demongod86]

On jigglypuff: The rest is aside from at 0%, basically a guaranteed kill if it connects. So you have to combo into it, which takes skill you clearly don't know exists. (Hint: Look up DBR's King)

On Roy: He drops like a rock, and his over B only works once as opposed to marth's, which works indefinitely. And Marth drops slower, so has more horizontal drift. A LOT more.

On Iceclimbers: if you're bad with them, you're horrible. However, they can really fucking rape with chaingrab between the two of them. Their smash attacks are also sickly powerful. One can easily hit you for around 30%, and if you're at 65%+ when you get dthrow=>smashed, you're in for a ride.

And wavedashes were absolutely intended. In fact, Samus even has a super wavedash in which she can go across fountain of dreams in one move. Here are some "hidden" moves for characters:

Fox: Waveshine (wavedash+reflector...can be used on some characters infinitely...such as ganondorf and possibly sheik)

Captain Falcon: Moonwalk. I am not quite sure how to exactly do this, but if you look up SilentSpectre, it's like a standing wavedash and makes for a REALLY long backwards jump.

Samus: Superwavedash. I also do not know how to do this. Bombjump. Drop 1 bomb, drop another bomb, move forward from the explosion of the first. Repeat this process as necessary until returning to the stage at which point you can grab the wall with your chain.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

I've tried wavedashing and for me, its no where possible for me to do...its hard and you have to be fast on the buttons.
I don't see how this can be a strategy though...you're just sliding really fast across the stage while hitting everyone with a smash attack.

[Ice Climbers]

I've tried wavedashing and for me, its no where possible for me to do...its hard and you have to be fast on the buttons.
I don't see how this can be a strategy though...you're just sliding really fast across the stage while hitting everyone with a smash attack.

High 5 for ppl who doesnt know how to wave dash yet :heh: I tried it, didnt get it, might try it more some time, but as far I'm concerned, its not that useful when fighting against my friends :heh:

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

High 5 for ppl who doesnt know how to wave dash yet :heh: I tried it, didnt get it, might try it more some time, but as far I'm concerned, its not that useful when fighting against my friends :heh:

same goes for me, I don't know how these guys do it...I play games, but I don't play games long enough to find a VERY UNIQUE WAY of fighting in Super Smash brothers...I mean seriously though, I didn't find out about Wavedashing until early this year.

AND HAS ANYONE SEEN THE HOMERUN CONTEST RECORDS IN YOUTUBE??
its crazy...and I also tried imitating those....and its even as hard to do as well.:heh:

[Demongod86]

Wavedash actually has a few VERY GOOD uses.

F-Zero Grand Prix Mute city: remember the places you recharged energy in N64? They are very slippery to run on, but if you wavedash, you go almost instantly across.

Eagleland Fourside: That UFO works the same exact way. Walking or running even is slow as shit, but one wavedash, and zoom!

[Js2756]

Do I have to show you silentspectre videos to make you say you forgot to put captain falcon on that list?

I'm well aware of how good Captain Falcon is, but those 5 are the big 5 when it comes to 1v1. I've seen enough vids of top level CF play to know that he's beastly when in the right hands, like Darkrain, SS, or Isai. I just wonder how much of that is because of the player rather than the character. You've got to admit that CF's recovery is nothing to write home about. But I will agree that a good CF is very scary.

Wavedashing can be very useful. Say Marth tries to hit you with a forward smash at maximum range. You shield it. Most character's don't have much they can retaliate with because of how long Marth's sword is, but they can compensate by wavedashing out of the shield to close the gap. Another use for wavedashing is to quickly grab a ledge when your opponent is trying to make it back (face away, wavedash backwards off the stage, and you'll grab it without having to jump off the stage).

[Demongod86]

CF's recovery is actually a lot better than people give him credit for. It isn't that it's so horribly short that once you're off the edge, don't even bother, such as Falco's. It's that CF is so horribly vulnerable at the most important part, which is when it comes to getting back on the stage. His upB with the correct directional input can go about as far as Fox's firefox. The difference is that the firefox can really lay it into you if you mess up your edgeguard, whereas CF is a sitting duck in the middle of his recovery.

But against an edgeguarder, yeah, CF is in big trouble. It's why he's not the undisputed #1 character in the game. And as for Isai, Darkrain, and SS, nope...it's falcon. I know that darkrain utterly sucks with Fox, and that SS's second character is the distantly worse Roy. Isai, however, beat Darkrain's CF by 1 stock with purple boots fox.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

C. Falcon pwns j00. He's got speen AND power, not something many characters can claim. You don't even need to use his specials to win, other than for recovery.

Watch this awesome Newgrounds video of C Falcon and a highlight of just ONE of his moves: The Knee. It's sweet. Or if not that, then at least entertaining.
SSBM: The Knee (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/387503)

"Wavedashing? Shielding? Ducking? No. Knee."

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

I have felt the force of Captain Falcon's knee a few times whenever I challenged any of my friends that uses him....its pretty powerful!:heh:
I wonder how Captain Falcon users will feel if they took out that attack for Brawl...

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

Closing off this weeks update in the official site, they have finally revealed Snake.
He looks pretty interesting to use, and ironically, they didn't let him have his pistol, but they made him keep his rocket launcher and his grenades.:heh:
But his stage music sounds pretty cool...its as cool as Zelda's new stage music for Brawl.

[Alexandrite]

Closing off this weeks update in the official site, they have finally revealed Snake.
He looks pretty interesting to use, and ironically, they didn't let him have his pistol, but they made him keep his rocket launcher and his grenades.:heh:
But his stage music sounds pretty cool...its as cool as Zelda's new stage music for Brawl.
Perhaps it's because grenades and rocket launchers are a bit more removed from society at large, and would cause less controversy than a commonly used handgun (especially in America with all of its whining anti-video game violence groups). That, or perhaps it's because big explosions as far as the context of the game are more cartoony and funny than a headshot with a pistol. Those are the only reasons I can pull out of my ass right now. :heh:

Now, as for Snake himself - his moves seem come off to me as rather slow, but I imagine that would be to balance greater power. From what I've seen, I don't expect him to be as big in tournament play, but we'll just have to see.

And now they need to announce another third party character. :D

Yesterday's announcement of Piplup was cool. It moves like Marill, but is actually useful to the point of annoyance if used against you. Good stuff.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

America has always had a big tolerance over violence in video games and how it can affect the public when played too many times.
I guess Nintendo wanted to stay on the "family" and "fun for everyone" genre and shafted Snake's pistol.
I mean, they could have let him have something similar to Fox's laser gun...his gun looks like a real pistol, but shoots and sounds like a laser gun.
But hey, he looks interesting to play...his Nikkita Rocket Launcher attack may have some speed issues, but I wonder what would happen if you target snake himself?...hmm something like Ness might happen to him?
But today's update was just about the trophies that you can collect during the game. It's pretty interesting to see that they added the option of creating scenes with your trophies.
An average update as always, and I doubt they'll be updating with any new characters for now....its about 3 more months until release.

[guiltygearxt]

C.Falcon = my fav char

heres a gg vid of how godly he is:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Evb-V4--Bsk

anyway i cant wait 2 play this awesome game so i can rape every1 online ^^

btw, any1 here uses smashboards?

[Demongod86]

Me ^_^

Ten characters.

[Benoit]

C.Falcon = my fav char

heres a gg vid of how godly he is:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Evb-V4--Bsk

anyway i cant wait 2 play this awesome game so i can rape every1 online ^^

btw, any1 here uses smashboards?
Now in English, please.

[guiltygearxt]

Now in English, please.

cant figure out urself?

2 bad =[

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

Mr.Resetti seems like a very interesting Assist Trophy.
The screen closes up on him while battle is still taking place and he yaps yaps yaps, until he's done and anyone close to him when he's done, they sleep...judging form the screen shots though.:heh:

[Otani-kun]

They could of done that for fun. xP

I think Mr Resetti is like the goldeen of the Assist-trophies, a fluke.
They sure gave a few lousy filler-updates, bring on the characters. ;<

[Benoit]

cant figure out urself?
Not all of it, because I don't spend my time writing on the Internet like an idiot.

[guiltygearxt]

Not all of it, because I don't spend my time writing on the Internet like an idiot.

the irony is strong in this 1 :eyespin:

[Skyfall]

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:nod:

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

They could of done that for fun. xP

I think Mr Resetti is like the goldeen of the Assist-trophies, a fluke.
They sure gave a few lousy filler-updates, bring on the characters. ;<

we'll be getting more filler updates as time passes because its almost time for release...in about 3 months, sounds long, but its actually faster than you think.:heh:

Today's update was about Pokemon Trainer's final smash attack...I think this was pretty obvious to everyone, but it looks pretty cool!
Although we haven't seen Kirby's final smash yet, probably because their first idea of Kirby's final smashing being a "iron chef" scene, I think they're re-doing his final smash attack...

[Spirit Icana]

And thus my fingers remain crossed and hopes high as Isaac, of Golden Sun fame, remains unconfirmed for Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

oh yea forgot about golden sun....one of the best RPG's made for the gameboy advance...I have yet to finish up the second one though, but its too bad that there are no plans for it to come onto a next generation console or atleast the DS in a sequel form.

But back on topic, I wouldn't mind Issac making his way to Brawl. Heck, it would make good advertisement for Golden sun, just in case Nintendo is really making a sequel behind the scenes.
Just like what they did in Melee, when we were introduced to two Fire Emblem characters, Roy and Marth, and not too long after, we got Fire Emblem titles making its way to the US.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

And thus my fingers remain crossed and hopes high as Isaac, of Golden Sun fame, remains unconfirmed for Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

I would totally squeal like a little school girl if they were to happen. :heh:

I LOVE GOLDEN SUN!!!!!!!! :eyespin:

[Terrestrial Dream]

It would be nice to have Issac or Felix in Super Smash, maybe also character from Advance War. Now about the tournament mode, it would be really awesome if it was online. Because of this quote from dojo it might be online
Of course, if you don’t have a large number of friends, you may not have much need for a tourney.
Still, we’re working seriously to make this mode fun for even those people.
Oh and I tried wave dashing in Melee, damn it's annoying to pull it off.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

The tourney mode looks interesting, but in melee, my friends and I didn't even bother to set up a tourney...we just played free for all melee.
I don't know though, they are planning to make tourney more fun than ever to even get people who don't use tourneys, interested in playing in that mode.
Though tourney mode in online would be crazy, I think they're considering that option.

As for more characters being revealed, only time will tell if they decide to leak one more new challenger or veteran fighter on the website. Although that chance is slim, I just want to see if Kirby's final smash will stay true to the first trailer shown or have they changed it since...hmm

[striderm]

Ok, guys. It's Lucas from Mother 3!

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

Is Lucas Ness' friend or something?
Or just a whole new hero for Mother 3??

Never knew they would still be revealing new characters even though they're almost close to launch day.:heh:

[Kazuki_Kun]

Is Lucas Ness' friend or something?
Or just a whole new hero for Mother 3??

Never knew they would still be revealing new characters even though they're almost close to launch day.:heh:

He's a whole new hero from Mother 3. ^^

I'm having my doubts about Ness being in now, I mean I know he's been in the last 2 games, but, it looks like Lucas and him would have similar move sets, and Sakurai stated he didnt want clones. I hope Ness is in ;-;

[Otani-kun]

I'm having my doubts about Ness being in now, I mean I know he's been in the last 2 games, but, it looks like Lucas and him would have similar move sets, and Sakurai stated he didnt want clones. I hope Ness is in ;-;

I don't, but thats because i never played Ness anyway. x)
It's still a long way before launch-time, I hope they'll show us some more
characters/bosses. (Sonic, Isaac, Lloyd _o_)

Anyway, what character is everyone going to use here?

[ItAllFaded]

Haha I watched it before it was awesome. Solid Snake will own everyone with his master Camo skills with his box. They should put one of the Contra Soilders, Cody Travers (Final Fight), Conker, Crono, DoomGuy, Earthworm Jim, One of the killer instinct characters (Glacier :3).

Solid Snake FTW!

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

I'm going straight for Yoshi when I get this game...going to experiment on what changes did they do to him and since he has a second jump, I wonder what or how is it going to look like.:heh:

So Lucas is a whole new character from Mother 3...thats pretty interesting, but I don't think they'll get rid of Ness. Although I haven't played not even one "Mother" game, are Lucas' moves from the game similar to Ness'? I know the creators said they aren't going to create clones for Brawl, getting rid of Ness because he was too similar to Lucas seems like a bad choice to do, even though if they end up becoming clones. Ness is part of the original 12 that first appeared in Super Smash Bros.

[firecook94]

This game will own if they have sonic


(my first post)

[Twarz]

Haw, this is probably the game I'm awaiting the most... Pleaaaase, put Midna in as a playable Character... T.T

(Nah, really, I think it could be great for every TP fans :P )

[SooHip]

Haw, this is probably the game I'm awaiting the most... Pleaaaase, put Midna in as a playable Character... T.T

(Nah, really, I think it could be great for every TP fans :P )

I so agree! I hope midna would be a playable character..
but i doubt it, she would probably be an assist trophy

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

woah, today we get double updates and they're all about Snake!
We finally get to see Snake move in battle and also his own stage...its pretty interesting that if Snake is in his own home stage, he gets random calls from his subordinates to help him find out who he's fighting against.
Plus we get a gameplay video on how Snake will move in Brawl.

[ItAllFaded]

You know who would be better then Solid Snake?

Johnny Sasaki!

He's the guy with bad stomach aches and pretty much gullible.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y298/balla808/thjohnnysasaki.gif

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

:heh: who the heck is Johnny Sasaki?

But anyways, it looks like they're building up third party character hype by just using Solid Snake...although it would be cool to get some kind of a small hint that atleast they got Sonic in Brawl...the only one that I can come up with is the upcoming Wii game, "Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games". But I guess other third party characters will just be classified as top secret other than Snake and until the game is released and everyone has already unlocked every new character.

EDIT: BTW, I haven't played any Metal Gear Solid games, but is that Snakes original voice actor in those Codec transmissions? I noticed that his subordinates in those conversations did voices for various animes...just wondering about Snake if his VA hasn't changed in Brawl.

[Otani-kun]

EDIT: BTW, I haven't played any Metal Gear Solid games, but is that Snakes original voice actor in those Codec transmissions? I noticed that his subordinates in those conversations did voices for various animes...just wondering about Snake if his VA hasn't changed in Brawl.

Yep. Snake, the Colonel and Otacon's VAs are the same from the MGS games.

That music during the Snake-Mario battle pwned btw. And i wonder how and when you get to
activate those Codec-convos.

[Terrestrial Dream]

All those codec conversation were funny. The Shadow Moses Island stage seems very interesting, but I think so far all the stage have been small. We need huge one like Hyrule Temple, those stage are really fun for group of friends.

[Trance]

Anyone knows if there a gadget which I can download for windows vista featuring the countdown?

[ItAllFaded]

:heh: who the heck is Johnny Sasaki?

Awww your not a MGS Fan :(.

It would be awesome if Earthworm Jim was in the game.

[iwubanime]

I'm not a huge MGS fan but I can say that the Snake updates were my favorite updates yet. The gameplay video + the amusing communication videos were great.

I guess it is possible the communications are during the stage but it seems a little odd to completely stop the battle, if anything it would be a game opener IMO. Or maybe it is for single player only?

I wonder what tonight will bring, guess I'll just have to wait.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

Awww your not a MGS Fan :(.



I wouldn't really call myself a MGS fan, I'm just familiar with it since some of my friends are really hardcore fans of MGS.
But so far, Snake has been the only Smash Bros. character to have a gameplay video...even Mario didn't even have one. Which makes me think if Snake might actually be playable from the beginning already.

Today's update was another Assist trophy...Excitebike. Feels like a Marill clone back in Melee. Nothing much except they do mention that there are going to be more 8-bit cameo Assist trophies in the game.

With Brawl only about two months away, how many of you feel that Sonic is already in Brawl?

EDIT:
Yep. Snake, the Colonel and Otacon's VAs are the same from the MGS games.

That music during the Snake-Mario battle pwned btw. And i wonder how and when you get to
activate those Codec-convos.

oh and thanks for the info. Never really knew that Snake's voice was that raspy.:heh:

[Spectacular_Insanity]

With Brawl only about two months away, how many of you feel that Sonic is already in Brawl?

Well, I'd have to say it's possible, but not likely. I don't really have an opinion either way, but I'm certainly not holding my breath. I guess it would be cool, though. I'm not a rabid fanboy though, even though I really like Sonic. It would be cool if they do and cool if they don't.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

To me the only "indication" that Sega has the intention of Sonic being in Brawl is the game "Mario and Sonic at the Olympic games". Other than that, I guess we'll all just have to figure it out when the game finally comes out.

As for today's update, we got two, one being about shielding and dodging, and the other Fox's Final Smash attack. As for Fox's final smash, its somewhat cool looking...its the landmaster tank, although I would prefer him being inside his Arwing and the rest of the Starfox Crew come in and bombard everyone with Hyper Lasers and stuff.
Although, Fox's Landmaster tank is so huge, it becomes a platform itself, but you can do a barrel roll to shake off anyone on top and shoot them with the cannons!

[~ Lawliet ~]

I've been a fan of Smash Brothers since the very first and have been waiting for this for so very long. Although December 3rd seems so very far away.

[EternalDragonWarrior]

The only bad thing about the launch of this game is that I'll have to make sure I still make time for anime and visual novels >_>

[Trance]

The only problem for me is that about after a week of the launch, my finals starts, booooo!

[Alexandrite]

The only problem for me is that about after a week of the launch, my finals starts, booooo!
...that is something I hadn't realized - I rarely think in that much detail that far ahead. Well, I hope I can ward off my gaming desires enough to study. Boo indeed.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

Co-op mode in Story mode seems like a good addition. Not to mention that you're partner will be part of the cut scenes in the story. So does this mean we'll be getting different paths in the story for different combinations of partners?

[firecook94]

Now all it needs is online co-op. than in my opinion, this would be a halo killer:D

[Twarz]

The more news I read about the game, the less I can wait for it. And i'm definitely in love with the Zelda Theme (http://www.smashbros.com/fr/music/music04.html) <3

And the co-op mode is a great idea ! Unlike in the SSB on GC, me and my brother will be able to unlock the chars while we are both playing... Nah, really, i can't wait for it :D

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

On today's update, we got a sample of Zero Suit Samus' move set. Not bad, although most of her specialty moves will come from her gun/whip gadget. But judging from her looks, if sheik doesn't get in Brawl, Zero Suit Samus might take over her place in terms of speed and power.

[Alexandrite]

I was hoping for a bit more pizazz from Zero Suit Samus' move set, but given how she's made playable, I suppose it's not too bad. And yeah, she does kind of remind me of Sheik, which means Samus is even more playable for me if Zelda loses her transformation, and since Sheik was my main choice in Melee, this is a good thing.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

we finally get a confirmation about Kirby's final smash...and its his cooking!
I don't know, I feel kinda "meh" about his final smash...looks interesting, but doesn't have that "massive knockout" feel like everyone else has. But its a good variation and it does spit out recovery items at the end.
And Ashley's theme for the Wario Ware stage is pretty good and cute...especially the Japanese version of the song.

[Otani-kun]

we finally get a confirmation about Kirby's final smash...and its his cooking!
I don't know, I feel kinda "meh" about his final smash...looks interesting, but doesn't have that "massive knockout" feel like everyone else has. But its a good variation and it does spit out recovery items at the end.

I like it, its fitting for someone who always swallows people. xP
And since its a Final Smash, it has to be powerful.

And Ashley's theme for the Wario Ware stage is pretty good and cute...especially the Japanese version of the song.

I agree it's a cool song, but dont you think the vocals are a bit distracting?

[Blaat]

I agree it's a cool song, but dont you think the vocals are a bit distracting?

I was thinking the same thing until I realised one of Melee's tracks had lyrics (DK's level) and that certainly wasn't distracting. And even if it is distracting you can always turn that song off in the music option (awesome feature btw ;p)

Also did anyone else notice that the Japanese update also feature a music track for Kirby's final smash entry? I wish I knew what that was about.

[RWBladewing]

I was thinking the same thing until I realised one of Melee's tracks had lyrics (DK's level) and that certainly wasn't distracting. And even if it is distracting you can always turn that song off in the music option (awesome feature btw ;p)

Also did anyone else notice that the Japanese update also feature a music track for Kirby's final smash entry? I wish I knew what that was about.

I have to disagree there, I found that stage really distracting because it was that horrendous DK Rap. I wouldn't find GOOD lyrics (or terrible lyrics in another language that I couldn't understand) distracting though. What I really liked from Melee was the orchestral Fountain of Dreams track, hope to hear more like that in Brawl.

[Mirrinus]

While we're on the subject of music, I'm just so in love with the Ocarina of Time medley theme for Link's stage. Hearing all those songs again was just so nostalgic. ^_^

Snake's stage's theme is also pretty awesome.

[Angelic Cross]

Ashley's Theme! Now, please make her playable Nintendo. Also, that link to the Japanese version of Ashley's Theme also raises my hopes for the return of dual audio for this iteration of Smash.

Also did anyone else notice that the Japanese update also feature a music track for Kirby's final smash entry? I wish I knew what that was about.

It's from the DS Cooking Navi released in Japan. The dialogue at the start of the track is from the game, where the chef starts with "OK, let's make (insert dish here)!" only here they're saying "OK, let's make Dairantou!" (as you all know, Dairantou being part of the Smash Bros. title in Japan).

EDIT: *collapses and dies* (http://wii.ign.com/articles/826/826130p1.html)

14:24: Smash Bros. has been delayed in Japan until January 24, 2008.

Nintendo shows a new trailer. Sonic is going to be a playable character! The trailer shows him transforming into Super Sonic.

The game will include online fights. In addition, it will have online cooperative play of some form.

[Mirrinus]

Oh wow...the latest update for Smash: SONIC IS IN!

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/index.html

[Ryougi Shiki]

SONIC CONFIRMED FOR BRAWL

BRACE for IMPACTOOOOOOO

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

TODAYS UPDATE HAS GOT TO BE THE BEST ONE TO DATE!
it was inevitable, but Sonic is IN!!:D
Damn, I'm feeling pretty happy and excited, and all these rumors about sonic being in or not has finally been broken!
Now I really can't wait for this game to be released!
Now the real question is, who is the lucky third third-party character that will share the seat in Brawl with Snake and Sonic?
Remember that Sakurai said that he will include two more third-party characters and that was excluding Snake.
One down, one more to go...unless he changed his mind and added two more.:heh:

Concerning Ashley's theme for the Wario Ware stage in Brawl, I didn't find the lyrics irritating, but if they do include the Japanese voice option just like in Melee, then most likely, I will be listening to the Japanese version than the English one. But both sound like they're in sync with the music, so its a pretty good track.

EDIT: Just seen the newest trailers for Brawl and the game looks pretty epic! So much destructible environments and such. Plus the Sonic Trailer...that was epic and I guess we all have an idea on what his final smash will be. Though the released date has changed in the English website though...it now says TBD...damn, since Japan's release got delayed, I guess US will get Brawl delayed also. Though good things will come to those who wait, so if its delayed that means the quality in Brawl will just get better by the time its released.

[Tokkan]

Green Hill should be his stage, complete with classic theme.

Edit: The delay in the Japanese release was only about a month, so it might be more a problem on the end of distribution and mass production than anything.

[Blaat]

wow Sonic in it, he really seems to fit in well with the other characters (more so then Snake)

Did anyone notice Peach singing and dancing with Bowser dancing along in the video conference trailer?

It's from the DS Cooking Navi released in Japan. The dialogue at the start of the track is from the game, where the chef starts with "OK, let's make (insert dish here)!" only here they're saying "OK, let's make Dairantou!" (as you all know, Dairantou being part of the Smash Bros. title in Japan).

Ah thanks for explaining, makes sense now ;)

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

You know, towards the ending of the conference trailer, looks like everyone was doing their taunts or entrance animations. Peach singing could be her new taunt and that when someone is near her while she is doing her taunt, they could start dancing like how Bowser was in the trailer.:D Now that would be a fun taunt.

Green Hill should be his stage, complete with classic theme.

Edit: The delay in the Japanese release was only about a month, so it might be more a problem on the end of distribution and mass production than anything.

Yea that would be reasonable for the delay. I don't really know how game developers do their schedule with making games, but around this time, they should be doing finishing touches to the game and then start mass production in time for the release. Any other changes made to the game would delay Brawl even more further.

[Klashikari]

I think my soul of old gamer has shed a tear... damn, the blue storm with the red jumper together? (yeah, i know there is Mario and Sonic olympics, but meh ^^')

that's a great news, and it looks like Sonic is kinda natural in SSBB.
I just hope his spinning moves won't be as glitchy as Yoshi had with his rolling egg. (either invulnerable, or completely useless)

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

hahaha I found this clip on youtube...whoever did it, it looks convincing and real, though its not possible.
The character representing Capcom in Brawl:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=JHXmlX_eV88
Everyone might not know who this character is, but anyone who has played his games will surely know.:)
Though its not possible for him to make it into Brawl, it would be surprising if he does, but at most, he would be an interesting assist trophy though.

Yea, I must agree that the child gamer inside me screamed while the outside me stayed calm...its night already and don't wanna stir up any noise:heh:. But Sonic being in Brawl really means that Mario and Sonic fans can finally live up to their fanfiction fight scene of Mario Vs. Sonic.

[Benoit]

One thing's for sure with the announcement of Sonic's inclusion: the Internet will be ON FIRE!

[Otani-kun]

One thing's for sure with the announcement of Sonic's inclusion: the Internet will be ON FIRE!

Check Gamefaqs. xP

Damn..Sonic being in this game just made Brawl perfect for me.
And Super Sonic being his Final Smash is plain awesome, I didnt
expect anything else.

Now that we have Sonic, Shadow or Eggman would be a cool addition
as a boss. =)

[Alexandrite]

Well, all those dreams from Melee just came true. Sonic? Wow. His moves don't look too bad from the video, I'm just hoping his spin attack can't be cheaply spammed. I will be upset.

Now I'm really anxious to see who the last third-party character is. First and foremost though, I must know Sonic's moves. And what the hell the transformation to Super Sonic does for him. I hope it's nothing like Yoshi or Pikachu's - theirs look similar enough as it is.

[Otani-kun]

I think it'll give him the ability to float, invulnerability and attack really fast if
we go by Super-Sonic logic.

[Alexandrite]

That's why I'm hoping they mix it up a bit, because that's essentially Yoshi and Pikachu's Final Smash. And fun though that may be, Sonic needs something flashier!

[Trogdor Jube]

I have officialy shat myself.

[Aka]

Could it be Brawl has been delayed for USA too? Official site has TBA now.

[Alexandrite]

So far it appears that only the Japanese version has been delayed; most news sites are still reporting a December 3rd launch for the US, but apparently there's no official word yet.

[Demongod86]

Frankly I don't think Sonic will be anyone special. He'll probably be a very high tier character due to blazing speed, but melee has already shown us the capabilities of blazing fast characters in the forms of Captain Falcon and Fox.

Sorry, but Sonic arrived late to the party. I'm predicting a weaker version of Captain Falcon.

[Otani-kun]

Frankly I don't think Sonic will be anyone special. He'll probably be a very high tier character due to blazing speed, but melee has already shown us the capabilities of blazing fast characters in the forms of Captain Falcon and Fox.

Sorry, but Sonic arrived late to the party. I'm predicting a weaker version of Captain Falcon.

I dont know..looking at Sonics running speed and fast moves in the
trailer. I think he'll just as fast as Fox and Falcon, if not faster.

So today's update are all of Sonic's special moves.

The only surprise really is the Spring Jump, people thought it was a item but
it turned out to be his Up-B move.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

Sonic looks like he'll be the fastest character in the game. His moves seem interesting, but it looks like his homing spinning attack can seem kind of cheap and spammable.
Jump once, attack in mid air, recover and spin into a ball and attack opponent in mid air again.
Though his up special attack is interesting...the jump pad. Makes him look like he can jump higher than Mario.:heh:
Yea, Gamefaqs boards on Brawl is on fire. So many topics and the game is not even out yet.
Sonic's final smash is a no brainer already...its his super sonic form.
Now we just need the last third party character to drop out jaws even more.
Big candidates for the last third party character can come from Square enix, Capcom, or Namco.
hmmm...I wonder who could it be....

[Alexandrite]

I see I'm not the only one who checked the Brawl website at an ungodly hour. :D

Sonic's Up B is kind of surprising in that it can really work against you, and I'm not looking forward to his Side B - as said, it looks cheap and spammable. Boo to such things.

As for the next third party character - I actually hope it's not from Square Enix, because if it is, chances are good Cloud will get thrown in, and I don't want to see any more FF7 stuff. Or, since it was a Square/Nintendo collaboration, maybe Geno or Mallow from Mario RPG? It's unlikely, but I'd have fun with it. On a similar note/backup plan for the previous idea, was there ever any word on how many Assist Trophies they were looking to put in the game?

Who's the poster child for Namco right now? I'd like to say Xenosaga and KOS-MOS, but that's just fanboy me, along the lines of the Sonic fans. :heh:

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

oooooo0_0
now KOS-MOS would be a good addition to the game...:heh:
Hey, lets not foget, Xenosaga made its appearance on a Nintendo console...the Nintendo DS with Xenosaga I & II...I'm a fan of Xenosaga and especially with KOS-MOS...although her chances might not be high, we still have anyone from Soul Calibur from Namco to represent also.
Plus with the blue bomber megaman still pitting in for a spot representing Capcom, so its a tight race.
Representing Squre, alot wanted Geno in...probably Chrono might get in....I've heard the Chrono games were good and its a shame that Square hasn't taken in account to remake any of the games...maybe its high time to pay a visit to the present time?

[Klashikari]

The problem with Megaman would be the awful difficulty to give distinction attributes and attacks compared to samus.
i know i'm kinda doing an heresy (being both a metroid and megaman fan), but both characters are kinda the "same": charging buster, flexible pattern despite their armor, various "gimmick".
I can see X/Rock as a more "bulky" samus "clone", but it isn't anything outstanding.
On the other hand, Zero... omg, if they add him, i will go banzai for a good while (one of my topmost favourite VG character :love:)

As for SoulCalibur, it is another good point, especially if we consider SCII move already.
That said, I can't see anyone else from there aside of Mitsurugi, taki or Nightmare/siegfried.

As for Square... definitely not Cloud, considering how FFVII isn't exactly a love story between Nintendo and Square :heh:
Might be one of the early FF, considering the remake etc.
(they might also put a stupid joke, and add a Mog or Chocobo -__- )

[Alexandrite]

If they added Chocobo and/or Mog, I would hope it would be just an assist trophy and not an actual character. That... couldn't go over well. Also, it occurs to me that Sora may be a viable option from Square, especially with a new KH game announced for the DS.

If they add a Soul Calibur, Nightmare seems to me to be the most likely choice, considering he's on the Project Soul Calibur logo. Plus, if Ganondorf is removed, we need another villain!

On Megaman - yeah, avoiding him being a Samus clone or at least dangerously close might prove a little too difficult to pull off.

I'm surprised to hear that many people wanted Geno in. Just goes to show how well I keep tabs on fan opinions of games. :heh:

And finally, on a non-related personal note, disjointed posts on multiple topics like this one kind of make it look like I have ADD. Fun!

[Klashikari]

The problem with geno is the complete lack of coverage of Super Mario RPG: Legend of the 7 Stars, even in the trophies in Melee...
I'm wondering if Nintendo still have grudge against square for the ol times, despite yamauchi left the boat for retirement.

the thing with Geno is... he might be ridiculously overpowered, considering how insanely equipped he is, despite being a "doll"... i mean... wanna deal 9999% on your face with that razor thing? what about the badass laser, similar to samus' final smash? :heh:

*sigh* i feel old talking about this... meh, this damn game deserve a remake on GBA/DS >_>

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

wow, never knew Geno was so overpowered...never did play the Mario RPG back then.:heh:
On thoughts of the last third party character, Megaman could prove to be a cloning problem if he's in...despite his size and design, like what Klashikari and Alexandrite have mentioned, he could turn out to be too similar to Samus.
Aside from Megaman, Zero (which version though...X or the Zero games on the GBA/DS?) would make an interesting character.
As for Squre enix, if they decide to join in the fun, it could either be Sora or Crono.
Namco could be hard to decide on which character to send out though...Soul Calibur is big, but there are key characters that play a vital role in the game's story. Though KOS-MOS seems to be the next mascot for Namco next to Soul Calibur though.:heh:

Aside from playable third party characters, whats the limit on third party character assist trophies though? Sakurai hasn't given us any indication whether the third party characters will have their friends join in on the battle as Assist trophies...

[Blaat]

Megaman wouldn't only be a Samus clone but also a Kirby clone "I've taken over Mario powers and now I can shoot fireballs". Then again same could be said with Zero, just another swordsman clone like Marth/Roy.

Still I would say that Megaman and/or Zero (hopefully and ^^ ) are the more likely choices if the third third-party character is from Capcom with Viewtiful Joe as a dark horse.

Representing Squre, alot wanted Geno in...probably Chrono might get in....I've heard the Chrono games were good and its a shame that Square hasn't taken in account to remake any of the games...maybe its high time to pay a visit to the present time?

I'm secretly hoping for Chrono because Chrono Trigger was an awesome game and maybe if the character is popular it might give Square-Enix ideas to make a Chrono Trigger 2 game instead of FFXXVII-2 :p Still I think the chance of that happening is pretty small.

About adding Cloud (or Sephiroth); it would make the game extremely popular in Japan and from a marketing point of view is the best pick you can have.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

ahhaha forgot about Megaman's ability to copy his opponents move or element by defeating them.:heh:
It seems Chrono is a forgotten character in Square's archive of games...it may spark interest for him to be in the game, though its slim.
But theres one character who would be an interesting character to have in the game...someone by the name of Marina Lightyears from the N64 game "Mischief Makers". This game was addicting and I passed it alot of times back in the days. The really unique thing about this character and this game was that there was no punching/kicking violence in this game...it was all throws done by the main character Marina. Though I'm not sure whether she is considered third party or second party or first party character...hmm...:confused:

[Klashikari]

wow, never knew Geno was so overpowered...never did play the Mario RPG back then.:heh:

Oh seriously, you should. This game is a pure gem. The difficulty is neat, the graphics are awesome for SNES, and the gameplay is just marvelous. only issue might be the scenario, though it isn't something you would mind with mario anyway XD (this game is on my top of RPG all time, with Chrono Trigger of course)

as for Geno... well, he IS the nuker in the crew, and until Mario gets his ultimate Weapon "Lazy Shell", you won't find anyone stronger i believe :p

let's see.. . what he got... well, a huge beam, attack booster, the infamous wheel (usually you deal in late game damage like 100-200 IIRC, but geno can deal a whooping 9999 which insta kill anything :heh:), wide area damage, and his final move, dealing insane wide area effect.

let's not mention his physical attacks, which are already high enough.
For me, he is a staple character for the game, considering his raw power ^^


Megaman wouldn't only be a Samus clone but also a Kirby clone "I've taken over Mario powers and now I can shoot fireballs". Then again same could be said with Zero, just another swordsman clone like Marth/Roy.
That's not exactly true because Zero has a complete different swordmanship/style compared to the Fire Emblem characters and Link.
This is especially true with Zero series if we give him any of his other weapon (Z buster as a mandatory, and you add the shield and rod probably)

I would say Zero could be a very very versatile and powerful melee character, packing big punch and range, without being too insane.

Still I would say that Megaman and/or Zero (hopefully and ^^ ) are the more likely choices if the third third-party character is from Capcom with Viewtiful Joe as a dark horse.
Yeah, i would hardly see him, though true dark horse would be any street fighter character :heh:

I'm secretly hoping for Chrono because Chrono Trigger was an awesome game and maybe if the character is popular it might give Square-Enix ideas to make a Chrono Trigger 2 game instead of FFXXVII-2 :p Still I think the chance of that happening is pretty small.
The problem with chrono is probably the lack of possible attacks, except if we give him insane things like Luminaire XD

About adding Cloud (or Sephiroth); would make the game extremely popular in Japan and from a marketing point of view is the best pick you can have.
Without a doubt, but again, considering none of them appear on a nintendo console, and that they "might" be again on a PS3 game (considering the trailer, which feeds the rumors a lot ^^"), really hard ^^'

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

Oh seriously, you should. This game is a pure gem. The difficulty is neat, the graphics are awesome for SNES, and the gameplay is just marvelous. only issue might be the scenario, though it isn't something you would mind with mario anyway XD (this game is on my top of RPG all time, with Chrono Trigger of course)

as for Geno... well, he IS the nuker in the crew, and until Mario gets his ultimate Weapon "Lazy Shell", you won't find anyone stronger i believe :p

let's see.. . what he got... well, a huge beam, attack booster, the infamous wheel (usually you deal in late game damage like 100-200 IIRC, but geno can deal a whooping 9999 which insta kill anything :heh:), wide area damage, and his final move, dealing insane wide area effect.

let's not mention his physical attacks, which are already high enough.
For me, he is a staple character for the game, considering his raw power ^^



Wow, I feel like trying out Super Mario RPG now. Though I have a wii, I wonder if Nintendo will decide to release it on its Virtual Console anytime soon...although they would have to get license and an "OK" from Square for it to be released on the Virtual Console. Square should really remake some of their forgotten characters and games instead of focusing too much on FF...although that is their cash cow though.:heh:

But back on topic, Zero sounds like a good choice, but fans might feel like "megaman should have been in instead of Zero" and more rants and such. Which Zero version would make a good appearance though? X version or the Zero series version from the GBA or the newest games for the DS, although not really Zero, they could prove to be a good character choice also...transforming into different models with their live metal...just like Shiek/Zelda mixed in with Pokemon Trainers' Pokemon switching tactic.

[Klashikari]

I'm not especially afraid of X being included if they bypass samu's clone problem.
The thing is X will have hard time to "absorb" defeated opponents power because they are not reploids. Remember that X isn't using any magic and stuff, and plainly take the data and material from the defeated maverick to "copy" them, in certain extent.

as for X VS zero, i believe it won't go a big arguement because fans can obviously see issues with X already, not to mention that Zero is far less covered than our "nice big blue" :heh:

as for Zero, the zero series seems much more appropriate because it is far more versatile and effective, though Zero from X series isn't that far from his "current" status. I can easy see : A : saber, B buster (with some charge, but require to hold it), side B : rod/recoil rod, down B: shield, up B: either the rising slash or the spinning one. (final smash? Zero Combo: mediam buster, max buster, Saber slash with a huge radius XD)
I'm not exactly sure if they can actually do ZX, considering that the biometals are very very peculiar, and it is more likely the fusion of X, Zero, harpuia, fafner, Phantom and Leviathan (the later being COMPLETELY useless). i can't see harpuia nor fanfer, as the former might be totally overpowered, while the later is a bit "meh". X is really just "for fan", as the ZX is quite enough. PX is... well, nice but too fancy. and finally... Ox... well it is more likely using Zero altogetehr, though Ox is a bit... too badass? (ware wa messiah nari ! HAHAHA !:heh:)

And it would require the same thing like the pokemon trainer to manage, which is a bit too far.
Good idea, but hard to applicate, unlike the true thing ^^

[Blaat]

X also has a movement versatility which the original Mega Man doesn't have (air dash, wall hugging) which fits better with the game. The original Mega Man only has that ground dash.

as for X VS zero, i believe it won't go a big arguement because fans can obviously see issues with X already, not to mention that Zero is far less covered than our "nice big blue" :heh:

Far less? Not really Zero has appeared in every X game (except for the GBC ones which no one really played anyway :p ) and he was playable since X3 except he always had more of a support role (which changed in the Zero games, I haven't played the DS one though)

Yeah, i would hardly see him, though true dark horse would be any street fighter character :heh:

Street Fighter character? Never going to happen ;p

The problem with chrono is probably the lack of possible attacks, except if we give him insane things like Luminaire XD

Luminaire would probably be the Final Smash. You still have slash, cyclone and spincut along with lightning and lightning 2, which brings a problem we already have a character with lightning based attacks (pika pika) or we can have the double techniques with the second character appearing out of nowhere (X-strike, Falacon Hit) double/triple technique was one of unique thing about the game.

Anyway as I said the chance of having Chrono is really small, its like rooting for your favourite football team even though you know they have no chance to win.

Without a doubt, but again, considering none of them appear on a nintendo console, and that they "might" be again on a PS3 game (considering the trailer, which feeds the rumors a lot ^^"), really hard ^^'

I know ^^

[Otani-kun]

I prefer Sora above all of them, (Megaman/Zero/Chrono) as I could actually
picture him in-game fighting with his keyblade. And he has a lot of moves he could
use.
- 3x A button: Keyblade-combo
- B button: Fire
- >B: (One of his moves from KH1)
- ^B: Aerial Recover
- Down-B: Guard/Counter

And his Final Smash could be Final Form. *-*


Well it's just a thought, but I'd rather expect Sora to be in as the last third-party char then any of the others.

[Klashikari]

X also has a movement versatility which the original Mega Man doesn't have (air dash, wall hugging) which fits better with the game. The original Mega Man only has that ground dash.
Yup, that's why i mentioned only X, instead of Rock, considering the stuff.
That said, I don't think they can use any armor (be it falcon, ultimate, etc), otherwise it isn't exactly emblematic.
and that is a problem because unlike samus, X require upgrades for certain things etc. it is especially hard to picture how he can do a air recovery, (while Rock can if he call Rush).
Well... maybe a weird vertical dash but meh XD

Far less? Not really Zero has appeared in every X game (except for the GBC ones which no one really played anyway :p ) and he was playable since X3 except he always had more of a support role (which changed in the Zero games, I haven't played the DS one though)Yes indeed, though Zero appearance in the X3 is a bit a trivia (well, only one life, being usable only on non boss, except for the even for his saber, etc)
I guess i should say that Zero was much less covered as the "main char" which became different with X5 and 6 (yet... 7-8, bleh)

hope they won't change with Axl... (guh)


Luminaire would probably be the Final Smash. You still have slash, cyclone and spincut along with lightning and lightning 2, which brings a problem we already have a character with lightning based attacks (pika pika) or we can have the double techniques with the second character appearing out of nowhere (X-strike, Falacon Hit) double/triple technique was one of unique thing about the game.

Anyway as I said the chance of having Chrono is really small, its like rooting for your favourite football team even though you know they have no chance to win. Agree. The thing is that slash looks rather like a "normal A" or smash, while cycline looks rather like Link's Spin Attack. Spincut is indeed different IIRC (or do i confuse both? dang)


Well it's just a thought, but I'd rather expect Sora to be in as the last third-party char then any of the others.

The thing is Sakurai obviously stated that the third party must be a major character, but also appear on a nintendo console.
and i would hardly believe Sora would be eligible considering that there was only one minor game and it is on the GBA.

That said, Thing are much more favourable for close third party, like Capcom, Namco or even hudson (bomberman? hum... just kidding... maybe)

[Blaat]

Yup, that's why i mentioned only X, instead of Rock, considering the stuff.
That said, I don't think they can use any armor (be it falcon, ultimate, etc), otherwise it isn't exactly emblematic.
and that is a problem because unlike samus, X require upgrades for certain things etc. it is especially hard to picture how he can do a air recovery, (while Rock can if he call Rush).
Well... maybe a weird vertical dash but meh XD

X can do two vertical dashes in X3 at least, haven't played X4-7 properly so can't tell I suppose you could use that as recovery and then maybe a third dash for a horizontal one.

Agree. The thing is that slash looks rather like a "normal A" or smash, while cycline looks rather like Link's Spin Attack. Spincut is indeed different IIRC (or do i confuse both? dang)

That slash was that wave attack that went through enemies in a line, Cyclone is indeed similar to Link's spin attack and with spin cut he made that huge jump towards the enemy and slash him at the end. I suppose you could use that as an aerial recovery.

That said, Thing are much more favourable for close third party, like Capcom, Namco or even hudson (bomberman? hum... just kidding... maybe)

Didn't think of Namco, hmm, Pac-man, Mr.Driller (Susumu Hori) or perhaps the main character from a Tales game? :p

[Trance]

Great, the game has been delayed, who is going to feed my hunger now?! :(

[Trogdor Jube]

I KNEW there was a reason they released Sonic's update yesterday.

[Trance]

I KNEW there was a reason they released Sonic's update yesterday.

Yea, kinda like they're saying "Good News is, we're including Sonic, but the bad news is we're delaying it for a couple of months" They're probably going to use the new character thingy every time they want to delay :D

[RWBladewing]

Shame about the delay, though not really surprising after hearing about the Japanese delay yesterday.

As far as third parties go, if Namco got a character in it would probably be Pac-man, unfortunately. He's a video game "icon", more of a mascot than the others, and fits more with the "style" of the game (though Snake doesn't really fit it at all so I guess anything is possible). I'd love to see KosMos or a Soul Calibur character in though, they would be far more interesting than Pac-man.

I'd like to see Geno as well. Even though I never really used him, I liked him as a character.

[iwubanime]

The delay sucks, I'm still hoping they offer the demo to the public somehow. Downloadable doesn't seem possible due to the Wii's limited hd space, but maybe something for people who preordered??

Lots of videos were released today. However all the videos I've seen are from American companies. It makes me wonder if there are any videos that were released to the Japanese public (by Japanese game media companies) that we haven't seen. I tried searching using limited keywords on google but found nothing (I don't speak or read/write japanese). I tried asking on 4chan but got told to "look at the internet" or something, lol. If anyone finds something, let me know.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Good thing the My Music option exists, as the music they have for Sonic on the Dojo website is just awful. That said I think the last third party character will probably be Megaman for the following reasons:

-It will probably have to be a Japanese Company
-Capcom is a big company
-Capcom has always had a good relationship with Nintendo and throws them a lot of exclusivity deals (even if they don't always stick to them)
-Capcoms mascot is pretty much Megaman.

Even if would make for a Kirby clone as people are saying, I can't see it being anyone else really. Though I think people have realistic ideas with Namco being a possibility as well. Perhaps the Prince Of All Kosmos.....Naaaaaaaaaaah! More likely it would be somebody from Tekken or Tales of.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

so close...so close to launch and its now been pushed 4 months back...I'm sad:(, though its good because they can fix up the flaws that they are having and the less chances that we'll get clones of characters.
I do remember reading something in melee that they got rushed to meet the deadline, since Xbox and Gamecube were in a race to be the greatest consoles before the end of the year and Melee caught every Nintendo fans' eye. They got rushed and thats how we ended up with half of the characters in melee almost being a clone of each other, just with different displays of the cloned move and power range. Plus, the creator of Snake, Kojima, did a last minute request that he wanted to include Snake in melee, but with the deadline coming up, they ditched the plan and so he didn't make it in time.
So the delay should be good news though. The more time, the better. Plus it would give them even more time to think over about who will be the last third party character to be included in the game.

Yea, I believe the Sonic news was used to make fans really happy and forget the "TBD" change in the release date section. Now we get a revised release date and I believe the gamefaqs boards are getting bombarded with topics about how the delay really sucks.:heh:

I guess Mario Galaxy can suppress my hunger for Brawl until February. Or maybe even DBZ: budokai tenkaichi 3.

EDIT: Though the demo event being held at Los Angeles sounds really interesting...but gamespot has a video showing how the demo went during the summit conference, where Sonic was also revealed at the same time of the conference.
http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/supersmashbros/news.html?sid=6180804&tag=topslot;title;1
Judging from the video, the game looks pretty good for a demo and the graphics are nice. Plus they sampled the final smash item and how its used.

[Otani-kun]

Here's some Gameplay-videos:

[Mario Vs Samus ]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4Oha3FCHRl4

[ Sonic Vs Link ]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tDmxlJ70Tn8

[ Fire Emblem Stage ]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=C-6j2LUCZ6w

[ 4 players battle ]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=voLo6gMbmrA

[ Pit Vs Yoshi ]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qYMF1BjHUbM

[ Delfino Stage ]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_2hcuNWPxR8

[Diddy Rocket Final Smash]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NtXjm0O-hNM

Sonic and Meta Knight are definitely gonna be my characters.

[Benoit]

Not really Zero has appeared in every X game (except for the GBC ones which no one really played anyway)
Actually, Zero did appear in the two GBC games, and he was playable. Mega Man Xtreme 2 was also quite good.

[Alexandrite]

Ooo... thanks for the video links. Meta Knight looks fun to play, but I'm worried that he might be a little TOO good. Also, I was hoping that we'd get to see more of Pit's moves - the people that played him basically used the same regular attacks.

And according to IGN's report on the press-only playable version, one of Link's alternate color schemes is actually Dark Link. Hopefully they'll do more full-body makeovers for some of the other characters' alternate colors as well.

Well, now that Brawl's been pushed back, I no longer need to worry about being completely broke in December (or distracted from studying for my finals). Of course, I could do like you, Ultima, and pick up Mario Galaxy to help remedy that. :p

[kimchipride]

Smash Brothers is delayed and now will be released in February 2008. :upset:

[~ Saber ~]

Does this mean that the UK release will be even later now?? :upset:
The Wii has an import ability, right? I hope it does.

I hope they insert something pretty special, considering the delay.

[Blaat]

Does this mean that the UK release will be even later now?? :upset:

Maybe, I hope not though :p

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

Here's some Gameplay-videos:

[Mario Vs Samus ]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4Oha3FCHRl4

[ Sonic Vs Link ]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tDmxlJ70Tn8

[ Fire Emblem Stage ]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=C-6j2LUCZ6w

[ 4 players battle ]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=voLo6gMbmrA

[ Pit Vs Yoshi ]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qYMF1BjHUbM

[ Delfino Stage ]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_2hcuNWPxR8

[Diddy Rocket Final Smash]
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NtXjm0O-hNM

Sonic and Meta Knight are definitely gonna be my characters.

Wow lots of gameplay videos are already up for Brawl. Diddy's final smash looks really fun to use and control. Meta knight looks like he will be pretty powerful and agile. I've seen his gameplay in the 4 player battle video and his UP+B special looks like a killer move...even to knock out opponents out of the stage.

With a demo already playable to the public, I wonder if Sakurai will give out playable demo disks to whoever reserved the game as an apology for the delay.

[Alexandrite]

With a demo already playable to the public, I wonder if Sakurai will give out playable demo disks to whoever reserved the game as an apology for the delay.
That would make me squeal like a little girl on helium with childish glee.

[Otani-kun]

Wow lots of gameplay videos are already up for Brawl. Diddy's final smash looks really fun to use and control. Meta knight looks like he will be pretty powerful and agile. I've seen his gameplay in the 4 player battle video and his UP+B special looks like a killer move...even to knock out opponents out of the stage.

I'll post that one here too.

[SSBB Sudden Death Match]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huk0jgyQWB0

Found it weird that Sonic could still do his down-air even after using
his Up+B Spring Jump, but it's a lot better then Melee where you couldnt
do anything anymore after a recovery move.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

That would make me squeal like a little girl on helium with childish glee.

I know that would also make me scream like a little kid...hhahaha:)
But if you have seen the movie clips of the gameplay and menu, its like less than 50% of the game completed and it would make a great demo for distribution for those who reserved the game.
Although we all can dream if that happens...but for just 2:00 minutes of gameplay and about 11 characters and stages to choose from...including Sonic (but not snake...I wonder why??...) it would make a great demo.

to Otani-kun, that was a good video and judging from what Sonic did with his UP+B, looks like we still can have our characters do more actions after doing the UP+B special...but metaknight won that match...now I'm beginning to think that Metaknight might be kinda overpowered by the time release comes. I've seen the videos with Pit in them and those controlling Pit don't seem to do well with him...plus I keep on seeing the same attacks being performed with Pit...what looks like his running and attack button A move where he spins his sword.
Bowser was part of the playable characters in the demo, but it seems no one wants to play as him...darn, I would love to see what they changed on him.

[Alexandrite]

Although we all can dream if that happens...but for just 2:00 minutes of gameplay and about 11 characters and stages to choose from...including Sonic (but not snake...I wonder why??...) it would make a great demo.
On Snake, I believe they said there were some minor changes they wanted to make with him, so what we've seen so far probably won't be the final model.

I've seen the videos with Pit in them and those controlling Pit don't seem to do well with him...plus I keep on seeing the same attacks being performed with Pit...what looks like his running and attack button A move where he spins his sword.

I know, it sucks. When I saw Pit move in the original trailer I said, "I want to play with him, and he'd better have a black-winged alt color". Show us more of his moves, dammit! @_@

[OutPhase]

I only have one problem with the delay, and just the release date gap in general. Why is it that we now have to wait nearly three weeks between the US release and the Japanese release, despite the translating job being nearly even with the progress of the game in Japan? It's like having a movie completely translated into five different languages and than delaying all the versions in their respective countries from one another. Why don't they just release it worldwide on the same day if all of the translating is already complete?

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

On Snake, I believe they said there were some minor changes they wanted to make with him, so what we've seen so far probably won't be the final model.

Hmm...now I think I have an idea on why Brawl was delayed now...it could be because of Snake's move set and how they want it to be less, uh how should I say it...less "armed" move sets with guns. But judging from his trailer in the website, it seems like they have his move sets all down to him just using his Nikkita rocket launcher and mines...and the rest all physical attacks.
Another reason on how the delay happened was either the decision to put one more third party character in the game (I remember Sakurai saying 1 or 2 at the max, excluding Snake) and if so, who would it be or they are having a hard time deciding whether some old favorites (Falco, Roy, Marth, Mr.G&W...etc.) should come back.

I know, it sucks. When I saw Pit move in the original trailer I said, "I want to play with him, and he'd better have a black-winged alt color". Show us more of his moves, dammit! @_@

A black color scheme for Pit would be a good idea and most likely it will be in the game already. But its true, through the gameplay videos, no one really did wonders with Pit and his move sets.:(


As for the three week time gap between the US release and Japanese release, they could have their reasons...maybe producing the right amount of copies througout the country?
And today's update was a new Earthbound stage called "New Pork City". hahah funny name for a stage, but it looks like a giant stage just like what Hyrule Temple had offered us in Melee...although they said that the stage would be much bigger, so expect hit and runs in this stage.:heh:

EDIT: also on another note about the demo gameplay videos, there seems to be a lot of Metaknight ownage in the videos...I'm beginning to wonder if Metaknight has some spamming moves that will get you an instant ring out just by continuously using that move. The video with the sudden death match with Sonic vs. Metaknight...the Metaknight user won...while the person using Sonic tried his best to out wit his opponent, but it seems Metaknight just stayed in one place, waiting for that one move that will get him his victory.
I may be jumping the gun with these impressions of Metaknight, but for now, until we get a demo disk(if its possible) or when the game is released, Metaknight just looks overpowered from the videos.

[Alexandrite]

Another reason on how the delay happened was either the decision to put one more third party character in the game (I remember Sakurai saying 1 or 2 at the max, excluding Snake) and if so, who would it be or they are having a hard time deciding whether some old favorites (Falco, Roy, Marth, Mr.G&W...etc.) should come back.

I wouldn't think a decision on old favorites (G&W was a favorite? o.O) would explain the length of the delay. Outside of tuning the game and adding more content, I would think only settling the business deal and adding the moves for another third party character would make sense.

On today's update: I loved the Temple in Melee for being so large, and I have no doubt that my friends and I will play numerous rounds in New Pork City, and there will likely be much knocking or tossing someone into the Ultimate Chimera for the sake of hilarity. The description on the site said "It’s pretty much certain that if you get hit, you’ll lose a life.", but that almost sounds like there may be some way to avoid a KO if you get hit. Metal Box maybe?

[Demongod86]

I wonder if there'll be an F-Zero Port Town stage and if Captain Falcon will get a better up B move so he isn't so edgeguardable :(

[Keirn]

I doubt Roy is going to be in this one, so I've already decided on my new character.....Ike! Yay Ike!

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

As expected, the home-run contest is BACK! yay! and with different variations now.
theres the single player version, then theres the team battle. Theres also a competition mode for simultaneous play between two players. and then theres the online home-run contest!
pretty exciting and theres now a barrier around the platform so mr.sandbag doesn't go off the platform too early and get a "failure" right away.

I'll miss Roy though, I was pretty good with him, even though he was a slower version of Marth, but Ike really looks cool and is a good replacement for Roy. Although I still think that they should have made Lyn a playable character though. But thats just my opinion.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Bandai Put's In It's Bid For The Last Third Party Character:

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7503/akibakko11738729741975zs0.jpg

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

who is that character?

but this weeks updates weren't really interesting...Peach's final smash seems like an upgraded version of Jigglypuff's lullaby song...but with peaches that come out at the end though.

[Blaat]

Yeh it was a weak week, then again the updates a week ago were overall good :)

[Alexandrite]

who is that character?

but this weeks updates weren't really interesting...Peach's final smash seems like an upgraded version of Jigglypuff's lullaby song...but with peaches that come out at the end though.
I think that's Haruka Amami from the Idolm@ster game and anime - the game's by Namco Bandai and the anime's by Sunrise (also Bandai). Her final smash would summon Imber to obliterate everything! XD

Well, at least now some of my questions have been answered with Peach's Final Smash. Unless she gets a temporary power boost from her mass lullaby or the effect weakens the defense of your opponents, I don't think Peach is powerful enough to do as much as others to take full advantage of a sleeping opponent. However, I can see that being disgusting in a team battle with someone who can. At least she gets healing items as well in the process.

Now, the next question I want answered is what Zelda's new move set is if it has changed, and what her Final Smash is.

[Sety]

Has anyone noticed they accidentally revealed a new character that has not been shown on the site yet?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NKHrO_ib4uo

Watch that video. You'll notice Jigglypuff is a returnee.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

hahaha, I seen it, its Jigglypuff in the battle!
Plus if you listen carefully, you can hear Jigglypuff's "PUFF" when she does her pound attack. hahah

Though in today's update, the pictochat stage looks pretty interesting...I wonder how that will work.

[~Tsukuyomi]

hahaha, I seen it, its Jigglypuff in the battle!
Plus if you listen carefully, you can hear Jigglypuff's "PUFF" when she does her pound attack. hahah

Though in today's update, the pictochat stage looks pretty interesting...I wonder how that will work.

No, Jigglypuff isn't there... What you saw was Peach and her voice, plus the voices of others, including the annoying booth people... If Jigglypuff was there, the people who actually went to E for All (that would be anyone who lives around the Los Angeles, California) would actually stated so... I have people who went, I have people who talk, Jigglypuff is not in there... Jigglypuff may come out as a character, but it's not in that video...

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

oh...so that wasn't Jigglypuff after all. haha yea the booth people sounded pretty annoying.
Peach sure can sound like Jigglypuff...

[Otani-kun]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=120074

For everyone who hasnt seen it yet, ALL videos from E for All.

After seeing all this, I'm really eager to play Ike and Bowser now. They look cool and their
Final Smashes are awesome. Besides, using heavy characters will be a nice change of pace and it would be fun to own all
those Sonic/Meta-knight fans out there online. xP

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=120074

For everyone who hasnt seen it yet, ALL videos from E for All.

After seeing all this, I'm really eager to play Ike and Bowser now. They look cool and their
Final Smashes are awesome. Besides, using heavy characters will be a nice change of pace and it would be fun to own all
those Sonic/Meta-knight fans out there online. xP

thanks for the cool link!
damn, after watching some of the videos, I wish they would release a demo...its really fun watching these fights and the cut scenes for the subspace emissary...it is going to be big and I like how all the Nintendo characters are crossing paths with each other (kirby and Peach cutscene with Fox). I wonder how the third party characters will blend in.
Those battle videos were awesome, but those booth girls were annoying...they don't even know what they are talking about and they're trying to give commentary...hahaha "go newbie go newbie go"...what kind of cheer is that?!:twitch: But I gotta say, the E for all looks like it was a success...I wish I was there to experience it.
Oh yea and Bowser+Smash ball = Ownage!
He's huge and literally takes up all the space on the stage!

[Sheik]

Super smash bross brawl keeps my favourite characters: Peach and princess Zelda. :nod: My better character, Yoshi, is still there so I gonna have some fun wreaking havoc some players. :p
In the new characters, I'm looking forward to the new sexy samus :love: and sonic who seems to be a great character.
I envy you concerning the gap. With a little bit of luck, it will be released in Europe in March^^".

[Demongod86]

Sonic is nothing new. Captain Falcon and Fox have already shown us what a speedy character can do.

[Mirrinus]

Yet another new character announced...King Dedede from the Kirby games.

With all these new heavyweight characters like Dedede and Ike being announced, I'm sure hoping they balanced out the game more so that heavyweights would stand a better chance against speedy characters like Fox.

[Alexandrite]

Dedede was one a lot of people talked about, but I never thought would make it in as a playable character. ...just how many characters ARE they putting in this thing?

The past couple of add-ins they've shed a bit of light on moves or final smashes... nothing this time. Sadness.

[Jaymer]

Can anyone post a picture? Because my computer is being annoying and not letting me onto the brawl site -pyon.

[Sheik]

You use Internet Explorer or what pyon? :heh:

Here is the newcomers'photo: http://mononoke-bt.org/bitbucket/81484_ssbb1.jpg

King decede reminds me the ice climbers who were not the best characters of the game -_-
In the previous SSB, speedy characters such as fox were very hard to handle and a slow characters such as Bowser were too penalized.
You could only have fun with him in team battle.

[Ultima_Rasengan05]

King Dedede is a good addition to the growing roster of newcomers. Looks like we have the full Kirby team in Smash brothers...unless we're still missing someone?
But I never knew that King Dedede would look "cute" looking...for a heavy weight fighter, he has the looks of a cutesy character...:heh:

[Benoit]

Sonic is nothing new. Captain Falcon and Fox have already shown us what a speedy character can do.
But they couldn't curl up into a ball and create jump pads.

And you forgot Falco.

[Shinji103]

Here is the newcomers'photo: http://mononoke-bt.org/bitbucket/81484_ssbb1.jpg.That Ike guy seriously reminds me of Orphen. >.>