Higurashi Episode 10 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

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kj1980

2006-06-06, 01:49

Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 10.

Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for RAWs.
Try to keep spoilers from the Game or Manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Game / Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.

Spoiler Tag Usage

Using Spoiler Tags is easy. Using this...

Don't forget to use the spoiler title

....will get you this...

Don't forget to use the spoiler title

ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni
Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) before you ask questions!!!

Feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting.

I am designating Sushi-Y and Freakman to lead the discussion in the correct path without spoilers as they have played the game in advance. I put confidence in them that they will recognize a member has spilled the beans too far if any other members has begun to play the game.

SPOILERS FAR ADVANCED THAN THE CURRENT AIRED ANIME EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS INCLUDES THOSE IN SPOILER TAGS!!!. People tend to peek at spoiler tags; especially when they do not know such tag is meant for the episode, only to find it spilling the beans too far advanced in the game storyline.

Sushi-Y

2006-06-06, 19:30

Hmm... to be honest, I think they missed the mark for this one. It's almost as if the anime is simply displaying what happened without trying to convey the significance of the contents at all. The scenes are displayed one after another, with little sense of connection between them. The anime has always been rushing the story, but it was especially apparent with this episode.

Anyway, with this episode, the stage is finally set. As a quick summary:

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We begin at school, where we find that Satoko has been absent for several days now. It's only a forshadowing to the tragedy that's about to occur.

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Oishi appears, and for some reason, he's looking for Satoko. We notice he's much unfriendlier this time around, intimidating Keiichi.

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And Irie comes to the rescue. Good, Iri, you look kind of cool! :heh:

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At the infirmary, Irie tells Keiichi about how Satoko and Satoshi was taken in by their uncle and aunt after their parents died in the nature park accident. But the lives of Satoko and Satoshi became very tough at their uncle's place. The reason: abuse.

However, last year, Satoko's aunt was killed by a drug junkie. Thinking this might be Oyashisama's curse, Satoko's uncle escaped Hinamizawa to his lover's place. After Satoshi "ran away from the house", Satoko was left all alone. And Oishi appeared soon after that, his intents unknown.

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Around the back of the school, Okamura and Tomida-kun tells Keiichi that Satoko's uncle seems to have returned.

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Next comes one of the most important scenes in Tatarigoroshi-hen: Keiichi's visit to the Houjou residence. It's here that we finally realize the seriousness of the situation, and the condition that Satoko is in.

Actually, this scene was done quite well. I felt like they successfully portrayed Satoko's feelings, her helplessness and pain. As a viewer, we were able to share Keiichi's anger towards Satoko's good-for-nothing uncle, forcing Satoko to go out and buy alcohol and snacks for him while he and his beer buddies stay home and play mah jong.

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In the car, Irie finally explains the reason why Satoko doesn't choose to call for help: Satoshi.

The anime didn't really explain this, but when Satoko and Satoshi were living together with their uncle and aunt, Satoshi has always been protecting Satoko while directing most of the abuse to himself. Unlike Satoshi, who has learned to avoid agitating his uncle and aunt over time, Satoko was still young, so she wasn't very good at hiding her feelings. As a result, Satoko often made the uncle and aunt angry by throwing tandrums.

Satoko believes that Satoshi left because he couldn't take it anymore, and she thinks Satoshi won't come back until she can prove herself to be a strong and mature girl. That's why Satoko considers the uncle's return as a trial: if she can withstand the abuse, Satoshi will come back. But if she calls for help, she loses and Satoshi will never come back.

I'll skip the Tomitake & Takano scene since they're pretty much the same from the other chapters.

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Keiichi, in his desperation, considers the possibility that the powerful Sonozaki family might be responsible for Oyashirosama's curse, and approaches Mion and askes for Sonozaki family's help.

Mion: "So... Kei-chan is calling me a murderer then"

Of course, Keiichi didn't mean it that way, he's just desperate to find someone who can help Satoko. But in the end, Mion rejected, and denys her family is responsible for the past deaths.

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Satoko showed up at school the next day, looking all normal. Apparantly, child protection services has been to her house, but no actions were taken. Rika pulled Keiichi to a corner, and tells him that Satoko and her uncle has denied the allegations of abuse together... Just like Irie said, nothing can be done unless Satoko calls for help herself...

Rika also revealed Satoko's histoyry for making false calls about being abused. Satoko's father (the one who died in the falling accident) wasn't actually her birth father, but a new partner Satoko's mother remarried. Satoko disliked her new dad, so she made false calls about being abused as an attempt to get rid of him.

Keiichi: "Are you saying that they're taking a wait-and-see stance simply because they think Satoko might be lying!?"

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Finally, the single most important scene in the chapter, the lunch scene where Satoko broke down. Unfortunately, this scene was poorly done in a sense that it didn't deliver the same feel of urgency and tension as it did in the game.

Satoko's breakdown was caused because Keiichi "touched" her, not because his petting reminded her of Satoshi. I have no idea what the anime was trying to do there.

Also, Satoko blowing Keiichi across the classroom with one push... :heh:

The throw-up part was needed, it showed just how repulsive her body felt by being touched.

It might appear unclear in the anime, but Satoko's "gomenasai" in the end came out because she realized that she has just made a mess and caused chaos in the classroom... :( In the game, she also said "it wasn't me, it wasn't me, it wasn't me".

Overall, this scene lacked impact. In the game, there really was a strong sense of tension, that "this is an emergency! There's no time left to sit around and "wait-and-see", Satoko is in a dangerous state right now and she CANNOT be left alone anymore!". But in this episode, it felt almost as if everyone just stood around watching Satoko act creepy... It's just not the right image...

There was also a strong sense of regret and despair for Keiichi in this scene, he cursed himself for not doing anything sooner. In the game, Keiichi already discussed Satoko's situation with Rena and the others, as well as Chie-sensei, for days. Keiichi's biggest fear was that by the time actions were taken, it would be "too late" for Satoko, and that they'll never be able to return back to their happy days. Well, the scene where Satoko broke down was the limit, it's "too late" now, Satoko has already been broken, it was naive to think that Satoko will be able to hang in there until a solution can be figured out, and now they will never be able to go back to their happy days again... That was the hopelessness and emptiness that took over Keiichi's heart at the moment.

Anyway, this was also the scene where Keiichi "made the decision". The episode stopped just short of this, but I sure hope they do show (in the next episode) how Keiichi's brain was thrown into overdrive by this. His super-cold thoughts and precision-decisiveness was absolutely stunning in during this section of the novel, it would be a sin if they skipped out on Keiichi's "transformation".

Rasuberi

2006-06-07, 02:56

I'm feeling slightly depressed now~ And wishing I could buy all of Higurashi's sound novel's sometime soon. (Don't have the money to buy anything from Japan right now... :( )

Aa, what to say. I of course enjoyed this episode, but Satoko sure is a strong little girl... :heh:

Based on what Sushi said, they sure seemed to make her look creepier than unfortunate and in need of help. But I kind of figured while watching they were exagerating it a bit, but oh did my heart tighten during the "Gomen nasai.. gomen nasai... gomen nasai". Satoko...

And... mii... Oishi can be scary.

When I started getting afraid there would barely be any Mion screen-time, thankfully she appeared. That was kind of a tense scene, poor Mion feeling accused of being a murdurer by Keiichi. She understood why he was asking her that... but it's not that nice to hear someone you care about think you are a possible killer, or to have some part in past killings. I get rather happy when I see Mion's hair color on screen though <3~

paTKany

2006-06-07, 04:12

Quite informative episode about Satoko&Satoshi's past. (7/10)

I hate Oishi for being impolite with the little girls. Do not scare the lolis dammit!

MarmoO

2006-06-07, 08:23

Anime reduced tension of Satoko’s breakdown by 90% of what was in manga, I prefer not to ask how much was it reduced in comparison to a game. It would have been better if five episodes were given for this arc, because it all seemed way too rushed. 6/10 Before I watched it, I was sure this one will get at least 9/10, but too much was lacking here.

iamandragon

2006-06-07, 14:12

Wa...episode 10 is out...and I still can't watch episode 9...

kj1980

2006-06-07, 14:12

Really? I may have to disagree with the rest here.

Granted it did leave out many points from the game, but overall I think the staff did a great job in this episode. The pacing was quite right as well. Obviously when one had played the game in advance, you may feel that it is quite rushed. On the other hand, I see it that the staff did an excellent job in cutting out points that can drag on and on. To the viewers, they got right to point that Satoko is being abused.

Anyhow, I am interesting in seeing how things will be portrayed in the next episode....

Tenson

2006-06-07, 14:34

Wow... as a person who went in without playing the game... I think this ep is quite incredible! True that the final scene did delivered as well as what Sushi said the game does but the sudden break down still caught me off guard... especially at such heartwarming moment...

My heart honestly ached when Keiichi went to Satoko's house and finds her with those big un-focused eyes...

I think I can understand why Keiichi was voted one of the fan's favourite character. Like Rika-chan said in ep 9, Keiichi's performance in this arc can be marked as 100.

Not having play the game, I think this is a great ep... LOL

MakubeX2

2006-06-07, 18:13

........

Shame that the following scene didn't get animated.

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SpaceDrake

2006-06-08, 00:19

Hm, reading the episode summary since poor ol' Alex is being a bit slow with the subs...

However.

Waitwaitwait wait wait.

I was under the impression from Watanagashi-hen that Sakoto lived with Rika, just the two of them by themselves. The only "adult" presense being the Temple staff making sure the girls were safe and didn't wander off and do anything too ridiculous. This was reinforced in my mind by the excellent, disaster-averting domestic skills the two apparently show in Ep.9. So... what's the deal here? Why was Sakoto at Rika's that evening in Watanagashi-hen? Was it chance, or is there something different about the scenario between now and then?

EDIT: ah wait. I guess that's the "major difference" in this particular arc: in other arcs, Sakoto lives with Rika and isn't TOO traumatized (aside from what happens in Watanagashi-hen anyway), but here Uncle returns and her life goes down the toilet. Just want to make sure I've got it right.

kj1980

2006-06-08, 01:16

Sushi-Y

2006-06-08, 01:53

........

Shame that the following scene didn't get animated.
Well, the first part did.

Like I said, they're really forsaking the sad, tear-jerking aspects of the story and focusing only on the "suspense".

I was under the impression from Watanagashi-hen that Sakoto lived with Rika, just the two of them by themselves. The only "adult" presense being the Temple staff making sure the girls were safe and didn't wander off and do anything too ridiculous. This was reinforced in my mind by the excellent, disaster-averting domestic skills the two apparently show in Ep.9. So... what's the deal here? Why was Sakoto at Rika's that evening in Watanagashi-hen? Was it chance, or is there something different about the scenario between now and then?

EDIT: ah wait. I guess that's the "major difference" in this particular arc: in other arcs, Sakoto lives with Rika and isn't TOO traumatized (aside from what happens in Watanagashi-hen anyway), but here Uncle returns and her life goes down the toilet. Just want to make sure I've got it right.
This was explained clearly in the game, so there's no need to guess this one. I'm not sure if the anime covered it yet or not (or if they just skipped explaining it all together), but since it's not that big of a deal, I'll answer your question:

The big Houjou residence that you see in episode 10 belonged to Satoshi and Satoko's parents. When Satoko's parents died, Satoshi+Satoko's uncle and aunt, who became their guardians, left their own small dinky house and moved into (took over) Satoko's house.

When Satoko's aunt was killed last year, Satoko's uncle (Teppei, the abusive bum you see in this episode) escaped the village and ran to his lover's place in Okinomiya, and Satoshi disappeared.

Satoko, who's now all alone, decided to leave the Houjou house (it reminds her of nothing except painful memories, after all) and went to live with Rika in the shed inside Furude Shrine.

(Rika chose not to live in the Shrine's main house for the same reason: it reminded her of her dead parents)

The above "fact" remains pretty much constant throughout all chapters.

When Teppei returned in this chapter, he obviously went straight back to the Houjou house first. But he's completely incapable of taking care of daily necessities and housekeeping, and he had no friends in Hinamizawa either. So guess who was the first person he thought of as a source of free labor?

蜩の泣

2006-06-09, 17:17

I'm feeling slightly depressed now~ And wishing I could buy all of Higurashi's sound novel's sometime soon. (Don't have the money to buy anything from Japan right now... :( )

the sound novels only have like first two cases、鬼隠し編 and 綿流し編.
if u mean the drama cds.

Rasuberi

2006-06-09, 20:21

the sound novels only have like first two cases、鬼隠し編 and 綿流し編.
if u mean the drama cds.
No, I mean the game. Not to say I wouldn't mind getting my hands on the drama CD's.

Pale Sqwish

2006-06-11, 03:36

EDIT *-88bhk;fd O_o i posted in the wrong post... oops -off to episoid 9 post D: --

Deku Kirby

2006-06-12, 15:45

Varion

2006-06-12, 18:36

...ouch.

While I'd have to agree that urgency in the last scene wasn't there (my thoughts were more along the lines of "What's wrong with her? Why didn't it happen before? KEIICHI DON'T TOUCH HER!" it was still pretty powerful as a scene and conveyed the serious emotional strain she was under really well - I know I felt for her during it.

The scene with Mion was also pretty tense - most of the time I was expecting her to flip, especially when she cut off mid-sentence. It did a good job of showing how much he wanted to help Satoko, though it wouldn't be surprising for Mion to be somewhat offended considering how Keiichi treats information from relative strangers (I presume that's what Takano told him?) as fact in the face of a friend like her. Still, can't blame him for getting really worked up and wanting to try anything, especially considering he made it obvious how much he cared for her in the scene with Irie in the car. I still can't see him as being in the wrong, Seki Toshihiko or not...

Either way, I can see where the gameplayer's criticisms are coming from but with no prior knowledge beyond the anime this was still one really powerful episode that left me with that empty feeling at the end. Satoko's uncle better die before the end of the arc, that's all.

BakaOnna

2006-06-12, 19:21

I've been browsing around this forum for a while, reading the theories that people post, but I can't take it anymore. This is one of the only forums that actually has a serious discussion on this series, and after this episode, I finally decided to join.

Anyway, I've never played the game before, so I thought this was an excellent episode that revealed a lot about Sakoto. Even though, based on some of the gamers' comments, the episode didn't convey as much as the game, I thought the last scene and the scene when Keiichi went to Sakoto's house was very well done. The scene with Keiichi talking to Mion was also very tense, like Valdra said, I was expecting her to go into some sort of "demon" mode.

One thing I've found interesting; after two arcs, we finally find out something about Keiichi. It seems that he is the scion to an estate and his father is a well-known artist. And, based on what Takano said, he's pretty well-known in this village. Does this, in some sort of way, connect Keiichi with the village?

Akuryou

2006-06-12, 19:31

*only one who gave a 10* D:

I have very few to say. Just so you people know a tear almost slipped out of eyes.
This series automatically jumps to the first one of my 2006 list, beating even Suzumiya Haruhi. I hope it keeps this good until the end~

steelbound

2006-06-12, 19:49

Matrim

2006-06-12, 20:05

Thought it was weird that Tomitake, the photographer, had to ask where the shrine was. In the previous arcs he was said to come a couple of times a year for the last several years to photograph the wildlife. You'd think if he's been there so often he'd know where the shrine was.

Yes, it's totally weird. I think this was a ploy to get Keiichi's attention and a reason to talk about the murders and the curse. He is the one who brings up this topic in every arc, that has to mean something. It makes no sense to ask where the shrine is when he has visited the place numerous times and his friend Takano lives there.

This chapter is indeed different than the previous ones which is good. Oishi's methods of getting information sure are not too kind, why didn't he question Keiichi in the same way in the other chapters when he was a lot more involved in the events, though?

The scene with Keiichi talking to Mion was also very tense, like Valdra said, I was expecting her to go into some sort of "demon" mode.

I didn't really expect "demon" mode but her reaction was surprisingly subdued. You'd expect her to be more outraged when her friend accuses her of murder and urges her to help kill even more people.

Nork22

2006-06-12, 21:48

I can see arguements from game players watching the show how much of the emotional impact the anime has left out, but as an anime watcher first before I started reading things missing out from the games/manga, the scene at the end was both sad and distressing and you can certainly feel quite a lot of Satoko's bottle up emotion going thru.

Broke my heart as she went "I'm sorry, I'm sorry...."

Proto

2006-06-13, 00:04

As another anime-only watcher, I feel compelled to come in and defend the episode as well. Many of the things that were mentioned to be left out, can be easiliy deduced from both what was animated and the tips we are given. Granted, the last scene could have used a little more work, but that doesn't deserve all the bashing it is receiving :p All in all, I feel this chapter managed to convey the story and the main elements/emotions we need to go on with the story.

keke

2006-06-13, 00:58

I was really surprised by this chapter, mostly by Oishi. Oishi always seemed like the nicest guy in the whole series, but suddenly he's so different in this chapter.

Also, Keichi surprised me when we suddenly went to Mion and asked her to have a guy whacked. But I guess he was so desperate that he was willing to follow a lead a stranger gave him and put himself in a very awkward position with his friend.

choia

2006-06-13, 01:12

I thought this episode was fine until the Satoko breakdown. That really needed a retake; Mika Kanai's crying wasn't very convincing.

Anyhow, one thing I've noticed about Tatarigoroshi-hen is how Keiichi has become a Hinamizawa-insider. He learns about Onikakushi and Satoshi early on because Mion and Rena fill him in, so he's no longer as paranoid. But as a side effect, Ooishi suddenly turns into an outsider who pushes people around, a complete 180 degree turn from the Ooishi of Onikakushi-hen.

Satoko's uncle is another outsider, and this time Keiichi is actually trying to invoke the Oyashiro curse to get rid of him. I can definitely sense the desperation in Satoko's friends, a desperation that would drive them to extreme acts.

Maybe Keiichi should've asked Shion for a Sonozaki beatdown instead :p

Beyond the Shave

2006-06-13, 01:26

Well, I didn't trust Oishi in the past few arcs, but I sure trust him more in this one than that doctor.

I don't wanna make random speculations this episode that will only end up making me look like an idiot, though. Still, it bugs me to see why Irie isn't mad at Teppei for being so abusive towards Satoko.

...OK, I'll only limit myself to one wild speculation.
Oishi is Satoko's father? Since it was (according to Rika) her stepdad that died in the accident, I wonder what happened to her real father. Is he hostile with Keiichi because he as well cares for Satoko? Maybe this is why he wanted to search the Furude shrine so bad in the previous arc (to find Satoko)?

Freakman

2006-06-13, 02:38

Nevermind.

Midrange

2006-06-13, 03:35

Totally random wholly unsupported theory:
Satoko goes crazy, kills parents--whoops, just meant to kill the stepdad, but paranoid and suspects mom's in on the conspiracy. She blocks it all out from memory.
Satoshi, years later, begins to realize this and becomes paranoid crazy like the Keiichi from Onikakushi-hen. Maybe he got infected through transmission of body fluids...little bit of incest going on? :uhoh: Satoko sees him swinging HINAMIZAWA SLUGGER aluminum bat model B43, feels betrayed, her latent CRAZY MODE(tm) activates, she kills him and blocks out the memory.

Years after this, Keiichi becomes Satoko's nii-nii. He pats her on the head. (Am I the only person who thinks all this head petting is creepy?) Satoko's latent memories of Satoshi flare up and she goes into CRAZY MODE. Uh oh, Kei-chan...better not piss her off :heh:

I wonder how Rena's related to all this...in Onikakushi-hen didn't Oishi mention her single-handedly slaughtering a school in the suburbs before shuttling herself to scenic Hinamizawa? And now she mentions that she's been "cursed" before...
Also, I thought Mion's little "I'm just Sonozaki Mion" line really seemed to fuel the suspicion that she's not the true heiress of the family...it seemed like she was being totally honest with Kei for that entire conversation. (LOL Kei, let's ask the mafia to murder somebody we don't like!)

I'm impressed that Kei has changed so much, it seems like even if Tatarigoroshi-hen is still being shown from his viewpoint he's much more cognizant of things around him. And so he's actually suspcious of Oishi when they first meet...

...I wonder what the significance of all those meetings at the steps of the Furude shrine are? It always seems to be significant in some way, and this time there's no Shion.

Amaranthine

2006-06-13, 05:54

I understand the complaints game players have about this episode, but I find that in some ways the pace of the anime adds to the effect. The constant deluge of new facts kept the tension very high during this episode, IMO. I would agree that there was a lack of tension/impact during the lunch scene though. But I'm still giving this episode 9/10.

And a lot of the reason for that is because I really felt for Satoko. I'd guessed that her situation was going to be something like that, because of little things I've seen said in various places. But... seeing it is quite different to just assuming that's what's wrong with her. Poor Satoko. :'(

This episode also made me think a lot, although I think I need to wait for the next one (or rewatch this one a time or two) before I can conclusively tie it in to anything else. (I'm agreed with Beyond the Shave here. I don't want to post a load of crap and look like an idiot. >_>) It is particularly interesting to know (thanks to the TIPS that have kindly been translated ^^) that the body at the beginning of episode 9 was the mistress of Houjou Teppei, a.k.a. Satoko's uncle. I suppose with a huge intuitive leap it would be possible to figure that out from the information given in the episode, but it doesn't seem very likely. So... interesting it may be, but not necessarily too important. I now predict either the next episode or a game player coming along and making me eat my words. :/

Anyhow, one thing I've noticed about Tatarigoroshi-hen is how Keiichi has become a Hinamizawa-insider. He learns about Onikakushi and Satoshi early on because Mion and Rena fill him in, so he's no longer as paranoid. But as a side effect, Ooishi suddenly turns into an outsider who pushes people around, a complete 180 degree turn from the Ooishi of Onikakushi-hen.

That's _exactly_ what I was thinking. I have to wonder now, what is Ooishi really like? How much of his friendliness in Onikakushi-hen was just Keiichi's perception of him, as the only person on his side, and how much of his hostility now is due to the perception of him as an outsider?

One last thing. Takano is still creepy. I think it's her eyes... she just makes me shiver.

AzureFlux

2006-06-13, 06:28

Beyond the Shave : it was Satoko's parents that died in the accident 4 years ago.

The one that died in the accident is her step-father, along with her mother who remarried some time back ago.

Freakman

2006-06-13, 07:07

まいったな。
My bad, guess I missed that ^.^

Morgri

2006-06-13, 08:24

I've never seen the manga or played the game, but most of the posters defending it our right. It didn't take Keiichi to cry to figure out that he was emotionaly stricken by what was happening to Satoko. In fact, most of the episode seemed to be about him trying to help her. Eitherway, I think I know what this transformation you are talking about may be. I don't want to speculate, though.

As for the rest of Higurashi, here is my theory. Oishi is part of a satanic cult that chooses people he thinks are Keiichi's friends becuase he has some kind of grudge against him. Sound bad, I don't know...

Deku Kirby

2006-06-13, 09:34

For some reason, I get the feeling that Satoko is going to claw her throat out at the end of the arc...hope not.

Beyond the Shave

2006-06-13, 10:01

That's what I'm thinking, too. She seems to be exhibiting the same symptoms Keiichi was during Onikakushi (was she mistaking him petting her head for him trying to hurt her?). I'm predicting her to brutally murder at least Keiichi before doing herself in.

orion

2006-06-13, 10:09

Satako is being physically and psychologically abused. However, was sexual abuse implied in the game? Satako does have an inner thigh bruise after all. If she is also sexually abused, then she prob will commit suicide. She's already at her limit.

Those bruises should have been suspicious for abuse, esp. inner thigh and throat. The police are waiting for something imo. Like maybe the Sonazaki family to make a mistake.

I also defend this episode. Getting too emotional would just prevent us from seeing the clues. Powerlessness and sadness over Satako's situation is the best route.

So, do you think that the Sonazaki family is using the curse as a cover to get rid of all of the dam project supporters and their families and any other enemies? In the TIPS section, the only dam supporter family members left are Satako and her uncle.

(I guess my next post got deleted because it was a double post, so I added it here. Anyway, now it doesn't look like Amaranthine answered a question out of thin air. So sorry about that. )

That body in ep. 9 really bugs me.

I know that the TIPS given said that Teppei's girlfriend's body was found and is implied to be her body. However, the body doesn't really look female imo, esp. if you look at the brief groin shot.

So, if you take into account this and decomposition....

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/4365/bodyandteppeireducedv23fu.png (http://imageshack.us)

Could the body in ep. 9 be Teppei's body?

Amaranthine

2006-06-13, 14:04

I'm not sure it can be, because of this (from one of Sushi-Y's immensely helpful/interesting summaries):

I want to make one thing clear first: unlike the "shocking death preview scenes" shown at the beginning of the other two chapters, this scene happened in real time. That is, this scene (where two residents discovered a dead body inside a garbage bag) actually did occur at the beginning of Tatarigoroshi-hen.

Unless... the dead are walking like they apparently were in the last chapter. o_o But if you carry on reading Sushi-Y's post (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=575810&postcount=4), he says it's not an important scene, at least for the anime. The hair looks too long for it to be Teppei as well...

dopelfish

2006-06-13, 14:29

MarmoO

2006-06-13, 14:59

Hi!

I've, as many, joined this forum for Higurashi! I'm from Poland, so please keep in mind that my english is not perfect, kay? ;p

Now it's time to post what I've noticed:

In Onikakushi-hen K1 is absent in school because of cold, and the director/manager injected him something. Now, in this arc we have Satoko doing the same, the manager also meet her. Is there a way that he could injected her something too? Something what would make her halucinations, like K1 had in Onikakushi? Are these two things similar, or I'm just wrong?

Note that I hadn't readed TIPS for this episode yet, so I could miss something important.

No offence, but I think you should watch this episode once again, because your question doesn't make any sense (at least for me). Satoko's case here is completely different from Keichi's in first arc (firstly - she is not delusional about her abuse, if you saw 10th episode you can easily tell). And if you don't feel strong enough with your English try to use Word with spell-check or something similar.

One thing which completely took my attention when I watched subbed version: Takano, her behavior, especially what she said: "you still don't remember me". For me she looks like a kind who would, like a cat play with her victim, throwing her "clues" which he don't have any chance to understand... But still, if something similar to Groundhog Day's idea is pulled here, it would be somehow dissappointing (IMO).

AzureFlux

2006-06-13, 15:17

rogueblade

2006-06-13, 15:24

Just because Satoko didn't go around swinging a bat does not rule out the possibility of her becoming delusional. From this episode you can easily tell that she isn't exactly in the right state of mind. The more important question is, what REALLY caused Satoko to act in this manner?

I would have assumed it was being beaten by her uncle, but i may be wrong.

FubaredByAnime

2006-06-13, 15:31

No offence, but I think you should watch this episode once again, because your question doesn't make any sense (at least for me). Satoko's case here is completely different from Keichi's in first arc (firstly - she is not delusional about her abuse, if you saw 10th episode you can easily tell). And if you don't feel strong enough with your English try to use Word with spell-check or something similar.

One thing which completely took my attention when I watched subbed version: Takano, her behavior, especially what she said: "you still don't remember me". For me she looks like a kind who would, like a cat play with her victim, throwing her "clues" which he don't have any chance to understand... But still, if something similar to Groundhog Day's idea is pulled here, it would be somehow dissappointing (IMO).

Are you saying that perhaps, each scenario is really repeating itself like how the Bill Murray repeats the same day and that Takano plays the Bill Murray character, capable of changing the course of the scenario because she knows what happened before?

MarmoO

2006-06-13, 15:33

AzureFlux:
Just because Satoko didn't go around swinging a bat does not rule out the possibility of her becoming delusional. From this episode you can easily tell that she isn't exactly in the right state of mind. The more important question is, what REALLY caused Satoko to act in this manner?

I don't think her bruises and kettles being thrown at her are caused by delusions.

I see two answers which would be an explanations for her breakdown:

1. She was abused by her uncle and his friends, probably also sexually.

2. If reminiscence with Satoshi wasn't thrown randomly there, it would mean that Satoko have much more in common with his disappearing. First - Satoshi really, really cared for his sister and it is hard to believe that he would leave her. It is probable that he is dead. Shion obviously knows more than the rest - why would she get so mad about "transferring away?", why would she blame so much Satoko during ladder scene? (I don't think she was sane there, but what she said there rather wasn't made up). I think Satoko is in a way responsible for Satoshi's death and because of trauma she has lost memory, Shion knows about this, maybe she had a chance to talk to him before he died and he asked her to not hurt Satoko and let her not remember this (or something similar) etc. KJeichi being so similar to Satoshi just triggered Satoko's memory.This have more holes than Swiss cheese and is not very probable, but it also opens a way for few other answers - still, before making any serious attempts to answer I'd like to wait for Rika's arc.

FubaredByAnime:
Are you saying that perhaps, each scenario is really repeating itself like how the Bill Murray repeats the same day and that Takano plays the Bill Murray character, capable of changing the course of the scenario because she knows what happened before?

More or less: yes.

FubaredByAnime

2006-06-13, 15:49

FubaredByAnime:

More or less: yes.

I guess Frederica Bernkastel's poems make more sense with this consideration in mind.

orion

2006-06-13, 16:29

2. If reminiscence with Satoshi wasn't thrown randomly there, it would mean that Satoko have much more in common with his disappearing. First - Satoshi really, really cared for his sister and it is hard to believe that he would leave her. It is probable that he is dead. Shion obviously knows more than the rest - why would she get so mad about "transferring away?", why would she blame so much Satoko during ladder scene? (I don't think she was sane there, but what she said there rather wasn't made up). I think Satoko is in a way responsible for Satoshi's death and because of trauma she has lost memory, Shion knows about this, maybe she had a chance to talk to him before he died and he asked her to not hurt Satoko and let her not remember this (or something similar) etc. KJeichi being so similar to Satoshi just triggered Satoko's memory.This have more holes than Swiss cheese and is not very probable, but it also opens a way for few other answers - still, before making any serious attempts to answer I'd like to wait for Rika's arc.

Maybe Satoshi does have more in common with Keiichi...

If Satoshi was also getting abused and watching sis getting abused, he prob was planning to run away with sis. That's why he was saving his money I bet. He receives the curse unjustly and goes into Oyashiro-mode just like Kei did in Onikakushi hen. It was hinted at that he went off the deep end in that chapter. He then killed his aunt and "disappeared" by whatever means before he could kill himself. A coverup occurs after that. Satako is prob not remembering what happened and Kei is triggering her memories.

That would be a trip if...

Tanako is the controller of this Groundhog's Day. She should have realized meeting Tomitake at the shrine is bad news by now. :D

FubaredByAnime

2006-06-13, 16:47

That would be a trip if...

Tanako is the controller of this Groundhog's Day. She should have realized meeting Tomitake at the shrine is bad news by now. :D

You're assuming she's the victim of the curse. Honestly, of all the people in this show, she's the one I don't trust the most. She's just consistently maintains her uber-creepiness everytime we've seen her where as the other characters consistently change every arc. And if she's the controller, that would give her the power to screw anyone over, kinda like Bill Murray early on in Groundhog's Day.

Sinestra

2006-06-13, 21:41

there any many speculations to be made about what has caused Satokos break down and what did K1 do to set off that reaction. several others have already posted some very intresting theories that i agree with. but i think i am definetly going to have to watch the ep one time. I do agree that Satokos uncle is not just physically abusing her, she is most likely being assulted sexually as well by him and his friends. Which may explain why she acted the way she did when Keiichi touched her

Mei Hikari

2006-06-13, 21:51

re episode 10:

gomen nasai gomen nasai gomen nasai gomen nasai gomen nasai

:upset: :upset: :upset: :upset:

Lots of info condensed in this ep, I had to backtrack a few times.

- Satoko's uncle
will die before episode 12.

- Irie:
At 11:32, I'm pretty sure Irie wanted to say "Why are you so much like her brother?".

- Oiishi:
Was he on a "bad cop routine" day? Funny thing is, as the arcs progress it seems K1 befriends the villagers more and more. First time around, the only one he could trust was Oiishi. Now the cop isn't last on the list just because of satoko's uncle.

- Takano:
When Takano (the nurse) introduced herself by saying "You still don't remember me?". I had a big OMFGWTF SHE REMEMBERS? moment. But it turns out it was just Studio Deen fucking with me.

- Mion:
"Murder is a horrible thing." further encourages me to think Shion is the actual psycho bitch.

- Satoko's breakdown:
A little too much with the whole "K1 flying across the room" twice, but nicely done otherwise. The aversion to physical touch is definitely a big sign of sexual abuse. This scene teared me up. :(

lifestorm2

2006-06-13, 22:30

yea, how did a little girl throw a teenager boy 6 feet away into the table/wall?

Eric the Grey

2006-06-13, 23:35

Overall, this scene lacked impact. In the game, there really was a strong sense of tension, that "this is an emergency! There's no time left to sit around and "wait-and-see", Satoko is in a dangerous state right now and she CANNOT be left alone anymore!". But in this episode, it felt almost as if everyone just stood around watching Satoko act creepy... It's just not the right image...

There was also a strong sense of regret and despair for Keiichi in this scene, he cursed himself for not doing anything sooner. In the game, Keiichi already discussed Satoko's situation with Rena and the others, as well as Chie-sensei, for days. Keiichi's biggest fear was that by the time actions were taken, it would be "too late" for Satoko, and that they'll never be able to return back to their happy days. Well, the scene where Satoko broke down was the limit, it's "too late" now, Satoko has already been broken, it was naive to think that Satoko will be able to hang in there until a solution can be figured out, and now they will never be able to go back to their happy days again... That was the hopelessness and emptiness that took over Keiichi's heart at the moment.

Anyway, this was also the scene where Keiichi "made the decision". The episode stopped just short of this, but I sure hope they do show (in the next episode) how Keiichi's brain was thrown into overdrive by this. His super-cold thoughts and precision-decisiveness was absolutely stunning in during this section of the novel, it would be a sin if they skipped out on Keiichi's "transformation".

I don't know if I agree with you here. For me, this scene hurt. I've seen pain of this sort IRL, and knew immediately what was going on. It is not pretty. I was ready to get up and find a bat myself.

That being said, I think we'll see the next episode picking up pretty close to this point.

I was really surprised by this chapter, mostly by Oishi. Oishi always seemed like the nicest guy in the whole series, but suddenly he's so different in this chapter..

I'm not that surprised by this. In the first two arcs, Keiichi was much more cooperative than he was this time. He is playing the big-brother, wondering why this man is looking for her. Not the smartest thing to do, since he identified himself as the police, but...

yea, how did a little girl throw a teenager boy 6 feet away into the table/wall?

The same way she knocked that ball out of the park. The little girl is surprisingly strong. :p Just not stronger than her uncle, apparently. :upset:

Personally, I thought the episode went fairly smoothly and did not feel rushed. I understand that a lot was taken out, but if you haven't seen the game (or manga, I suppose) then it seems to be much better.

:cool: Eric the Grey

MarmoO

2006-06-14, 00:01

re episode 10:

Lots of info condensed in this ep, I had to backtrack a few times.

- Takano:
When Takano (the nurse) introduced herself by saying "You still don't remember me?". I had a big OMFGWTF SHE REMEMBERS? moment. But it turns out it was just Studio Deen fucking with me.

What she said doesn't seem like casual thing to say when you talk to almost complete stranger, who you have seen at best few times earlier on the road. Her explanation rather doesn't have much worth, because what she said "I have seen you few times earlier" is the only thing possible for her to say, something like "I've talked with you in earlier arcs, well you, killing off your friends, was one of the most amusing things I’ve ever seen" would be at least "strange".

orion

2006-06-14, 00:21

You're assuming she's the victim of the curse. Honestly, of all the people in this show, she's the one I don't trust the most. She's just consistently maintains her uber-creepiness everytime we've seen her where as the other characters consistently change every arc. And if she's the controller, that would give her the power to screw anyone over, kinda like Bill Murray early on in Groundhog's Day.

Well, Takano did..
manage to disappear without a trace in the first chapter, substitute a dead body double for herself in the second chapter and is now healthy as ever again in the third chapter spouting "Don't you remember me." to Kei. If she's not at Bill Murray's level, she sure does have a keen survival instinct. She prob one of the few that knows about this Groundhog's Day and how to survive it.

And..
in what way do you think that Tomitake will bite the big one this time? Maybe, he should be nicknamed "Kenny". :D

Darkside

2006-06-14, 00:59

I used to feel bad for Tomitake for getting killed off everytime so far, but now I kind of suspect him and Takano to be up to something too.

Oishi has gone down from first place of the people I can trust since the 1st arc... He seemed like a jerk this time around.

Also Shion is scary :(. I wasn't sure what happened in the last arc with Mion/Shion, but i'm assuming now that the evil demon one was Shion the whole time?

willem113

2006-06-14, 01:57

This was truly a diturbing ep.

First of all Oishi has doesn't to be the good cop that he portrayed in the first two chapters.

And it would seem that Satako's nii nii.
Wasn't such a good brother.

As for the relationship between Mion and Shion.
I think that Mion has two personalties.
And Shion doesn't has much to do with the curse.

Matrim

2006-06-14, 09:06

Some of you are really reading too much in Takano's words. Maybe she just considers herself to be really beautiful and that men should remember her because of that. :)
Moreover, it's a lot more likely that in a few accidental meeting, the one who lives in a village would remember the newcomer than the opposite, simply because the newcomer has to keep track of many new acquaitances, while every new face in the village stands out. Or maybe they never actually met and Takano just lied.

npal

2006-06-14, 15:49

Distrurbing... I didn't feel so disturbed in other episodes.

I wish Rena would get her cleaver and chop off some heads, particularly Satoko's uncle.

Anyone who abuses lolis must face a painful death... Bring on the nail-and-hammer!

Keiichi, you're the man :D A huge improvement from the other arcs. Go kick some ass. Damn... This is just the thing I'd have done... Child abuse-> SEEDmode trigger.

Satoko's uncle is sooo dead :frustrated:

Darkside

2006-06-14, 16:11

The only thing I've really found really disturbing so far was the bat scene at the end of ep 4...

npal

2006-06-14, 16:16

^ I'd be extremely delighted to see that scene concerning Teppei's head :D

aliensporebomb

2006-06-14, 16:58

Wow. Despite what some say this was a powerful episode. I can't
wait for the next one.

dKiWi

2006-06-15, 23:14

I don't know whether this similarity is significant or even important. Satoko apologizes alot of times in this arc, similar to Rena outside Keichii's house in the first arc. Any significance at all? Both involve Keichii hurting the respective girls through a physical catalyst, even though most of it is mental.

rocket

2006-06-16, 13:26

Okay I got two episodes in one dose because the change in the release schedule totally threw me off. That might be part of it, but I actually agree with the game playing crowd even though the anime is my only experience of it. This episode seemed rushed and lacking the sense of dread the previous chapters had at this point. Especially following right after watching ep9 I thought it was just "Average".

Also, at the risk of sounding like a infidel, I'm not quite feeling the Satoko love everyone else seems to be having either! I found her most endearing with her sneaky trap laying side, but I've gotten most of that from the TIPS. The anime's mostly ignored her, and now really only focuses on her sudden identification of Keiichi with her older brother. Meh, I don't know why, but seems forced on her side.

Keiichi's reactions and protectiveness though, seem much more honest, and seem to be fullfilling the harem-game pattern. ^_^

There *were* some good moments...

Biggest one being Keiichi's visit to Mion! Since the last time we saw Keiichi and "Mion" at her house it was a pelude to him being tortured, I thought the scene was incredibly tense. I also coudln't believe she was so cooly denying her role in the murder! I still think of her as the tomboyish infatuated with Keiichi Mion we saw in Ep5, but even with the twin swapping possibilities I can't quite figure out how I can preserve this idea of her.

The other two scenes that got my pulse pounding were:
One thing which completely took my attention when I watched subbed version: Takano, her behavior, especially what she said: "you still don't remember me".
She's always struck me as creepy, and definately critical to the whole mystery. She seems to be relishing the prospect of the murders each time, and the very first time she meets Keiichi in the first chapter she says something simillar. Even if she doesn't have a memory that cross the chapters she knows something about Keiichi and the role he's going to play. The other thing that struck me about Tomikate is how confident he seems everytime - he's messing with murders yet he's never the slightest bit concerned. Why does he feel so confident? Does he know whats going on and mistakenly thinks mimself immune?

I don't know whether this similarity is significant or even important. Satoko apologizes alot of times in this arc, similar to Rena outside Keichii's house in the first arc.
The scene started out tense, but quickly got silly as Keiichi kept beign thrown across the room. Only Rena's psycho mode in Ep1 ever worked for me... but maybe because of it when Satoko started with the repeated apologies it gave me chills.

If you offend the demon, obviously you have to apologize. What other kinds of pennace do you have to preform I wonder?