Higurashi Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[kj1980]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 12.

Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for RAWs.
Try to keep spoilers from the Game or Manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Game / Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.


Spoiler Tag Usage

Using Spoiler Tags is easy. Using this...

Don't forget to use the spoiler title

....will get you this...

Don't forget to use the spoiler title


ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni
Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) before you ask questions!!!

Feel free to utilize the info on the TIPS section (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31732) as a complement to this series.

Feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting.

I am designating Sushi-Y and Freakman to lead the discussion in the correct path without spoilers as they have played the game in advance. I put confidence in them that they will recognize a member has spilled the beans too far if any other members has begun to play the game.

SPOILERS FAR ADVANCED THAN THE CURRENT AIRED ANIME EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS INCLUDES THOSE IN SPOILER TAGS!!!. People tend to peek at spoiler tags; especially when they do not know such tag is meant for the episode, only to find it spilling the beans too far advanced in the game storyline.

[Freakman]

Given the amount of things that will happen in next episode, I found the episode pretty uneventful. I'm sure the anime viewers will still find enough material to get freaked out / puzzled though :)

Also, about the last scene :

Wow, those police officers were brutal. I mean, they were in the game too, but I even felt bad for Keiichi, even if in this case he's the criminal.

[The Creator]

i want to see it know T_T

i think that satoko had killed satoshi because she was afraid of being curse by osashira-sama because her nii~nii killed her aunt; and blah blah blah; and so she will definitely kill our beloved (?) keiichi-kun

[Sushi-Y]

Not bad at all. Considering how the story was just flying in every other episode, this episode actually slowed down enough and managed to properly portray some of the most important scenes from the game.

Of course, a few scenes were kinda "huh?" to me (for example, Takano repeating "we didn't meet tonight", sounding like a creepy nutjob, EDIT: Ok, I was wrong here, she did sound like a creepy nutjob ^^; ), but they were minor so I won't dwell on them.

Oh yeah, I'm surprised they managed to get in the part where Rena gets all scary and demands Keiichi to bring and show her the receipt from the clinic to prove that he went to the doctor. It was one of those scenes that just comes out of nowhere and really sticks in your mind. ^^;

Also, is it just me or did Keiichi spent most of the episode being wide-eyed at everything? :heh:

Other than that, I'm just glad they managed to convey the "twist" here relatively clearly, the anime-watchers will probably enjoy pondering over this one. ^^;
Just to add a little detail:

When Keiichi cursed Takano to die in the game, he actually specifically wished for her to be "burned alive". So it's not just "Takano dying as Keiichi wished", she actually died to his specification.

From here on, it's down to Keiichi's mad dash for the truth, the next episode will probably drop a lot of jaws, so be prepared. :heh:
(Then again, it'll be tough one to watch for me... :()

[Alpha123]

Oh this episode does definitely give you something to think about.

Something that I noticed:

Here is the locker in ep 11 (sry if it is too dark)
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/4381/locker13hn.th.jpg (http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=locker13hn.jpg)

Here is the locker in ep 12
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/5348/locker27vh.th.jpg (http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=locker27vh.jpg)

Back in ep 11, along with Satoshi’s bat, we see something that looks like a bag in the locker. But in ep 12 the bag is missing. I’m taking this as someone went through the locker after Keiichi took Satoshi’s bat from it. Now is this a mistake on the anime’s part and has nothing to do with the arc or is this a clue of some kind?

[USCPharmacist]

All I can say is that, K1....you are screwed hahahaah, that's just show how someone so noobish should not try to commit the perfect crime.

[FubaredByAnime]

did you see the raw episode?? if you didn´t PLEASE tell me where you downloaded it :)

Considering you're asking this question, you must be a noob. So I'll quote the 3rd line down from the first message on this thread, under Thread Guidelines:

* No telling or asking for RAWs.


I mention this because the answers to the many questions you've asked on this forum have been discussed here and you just need to spend time reading the threads. But the above question is considered taboo.

If you're admin and you feel the need to delete the above message, please feel free to delete mine as well. Sorry for the trouble.

[The Creator]

thanks for the answer; but i wasn´t asking for the raws; i don´t know japanese -_-; i was asking for the sub ones and that isn´t taboo >_<

[kj1980]

Great episode in portraying Kei's descent into madness (yet again). Good thing Tatarigoroshi is in five episodes. Now I have to see how well they can pull off the ending to Tatarigoroshi. I hope they do it as well as it was jaw-dropping in the original game...

Okay, time for me to go do those TIPS for 12 now.

[LostBlue]

I haven't seen the EP yet but from reading the comments hear it sounds good. I'm glad they kept that Rena scene b/c I thought they'll skip it.


I wonder if they'll do the interview at the end tho. I hope so, I'll be sad if they cut it out. Also I wonder if they'll do the game credit roll... that was pretty interesting. 暇潰しの「東京に帰れ」辺りだから、それ程進んでいないからまだまだ何も知らないが、　祟殺しのCredi t Roll、これは自分勝手の見間違いかも知りませんが、いきなりだったので最初の方良く見とれなかったけど 、綿流しで見事な活躍したあの子の死因は確か自殺と写ってなかったけ？

haha, Just found out about that JUMP function. 見間違いでした。

[Morgri]

Dang, decent into madness? Is Kei-chan just a person who likes to go mad? I'm telling you, it's like the makers are just screaming, "Look Keiichi's has probably gone mad in all three arcs, it's him! He is somehow the person who screws up everyone's lives." And, to tell you the truth it's getting kind of annoying.

Eitherway, I haven't seen this episode, so maybe our defenitions of madness are subjective. Maybe not. For instance, some people commented that Keiichi was mad when he killed Teppai, but I don't think he was. I think he was perfectly sane when he decided to kill him. It was and act of choice, not of insanity in my opinion. So we shall see, of course I haven't seen the episode, so perhaps my judgements are premature.

However, all in all, I think that Keiichi dies for some purpose in every arc. As in, something that will effect the arcs later on. Maybe he can't live past a certain date or something, and that's why he slowly decends into this madness type mode, or maybe Takano or someone else purposely drives him into this madness so that he will die on a certain date. This theory may be out there, but it seems more likely than him just going mad in every arc because he can't, for some reason, stay sane.

[thundrakkon]

Wow, this episode introduced us to the possibility of a doppelgänger. Originally, I believed that there had to be a logical reason (non-supernatural) behind all this, but I am not sure anymore. If there truly is a doppelgänger running around, it will definitely tie up a lot of loose ends. Although, that explaination would be a little too convenient.

[Mei Hikari]

My reaction overall:

"man what"

[Darklightz]

Wow, this episode introduced us to the possibility of a doppelgänger. Originally, I believed that there had to be a logical reason (non-supernatural) behind all this, but I am not sure anymore. If there truly is a doppelgänger running around, it will definitely tie up a lot of loose ends. Although, that explaination would be a little too convenient.

I was starting to think that too but

What's the need of a doppel if Keichii didn't kill the uncle?Unless there's both doppels and zombies now.

However there are 3 things that are odd.

1 : The officer who dug the hole taking throwing out K1 comented that the soil was getting harder,meaning they're digging deeper than the original hole,wich would mean K1 did dig a hole on the night of the Festival,wich he supposedly attended.So that places him in 2 locations

2 : How did Oishii know to go to the exact location of Keichii's hole in the middle of a rainy night?After all,if K1 didn't kill the uncle,what reason would Oishii have of following him?

3 : Why did Rena insist to see K1's clinic receipt?

[Z12LAZARUS]

What a perfect episode. Nice intensity and no weird animation. Just plain great. Of course, the negative is that nothing happens. lol. But thats nothing I would complain about.
Man, Im not one to form any theories, but heck, Keiichi needs to go see for himself if the uncle is really there

[diopter]

I agree. This episode didn't really have any wow-factor in it, but somehow still pulled through with great intensity. It mainly cleared up (or made it more confusing? ;) ) some of the questions from the previous episode(s). This episode really either put a dent or solidified whatever reasoning the viewer had previously - whether there's a logical explanation to everything or a supernatural phenomenon. I'm really beginning to like this series :D .

[Paranoia833]

Wow, this episode introduced us to the possibility of a doppelgänger. Originally, I believed that there had to be a logical reason (non-supernatural) behind all this, but I am not sure anymore. If there truly is a doppelgänger running around, it will definitely tie up a lot of loose ends. Although, that explaination would be a little too convenient.

Wouldn't it be more convenient just to assume that the girls are lying in order to protect Keiichi? I mean Considering this happened on the night of Watanagashi they're probably trying to give him an alibi in an attempt to keep him from meeting an unpleasant fate like Satoshi.

[Sushi-Y]

Great episode in portraying Kei's descent into madness (yet again).
Ahh, but we don't know that. Remember, the biggest overall "mystery" in the second half of Tatarigoroshi-hen was Keiichi's question to himself:
"狂っていたのは、俺か、雛見沢か" (Who's the crazy one? Me or Hinamizawa?)

The point for all these "wtf" events is not to make you think "oh there goes Keiichi again", but to make you seriously consider the fact that Hinamizawa, NOT Keiichi, is the entity responsible for these strange happenings (at least partly).

Good thing Tatarigoroshi is in five episodes. Now I have to see how well they can pull off the ending to Tatarigoroshi. I hope they do it as well as it was jaw-dropping in the original game...
I just hope MOON PHASE's cyan-san's fear doesn't come true. That since the anime won't go up to Minagoroshi-hen, they might actually cut out the final scenes of Tatarigoroshi-hen just so there would be one less "loose end" to worry about when the anime is over.

[Matrim]

Once again the moment you think you are starting to see the truth behind it all, everything changes so you end up being confused once again. I love the twists of this series.
The conclusion after this episode - Keiichi is either already past the brink of insanity or really, really dumb.

Why the hell did he keep asking people whether they have seen him in the festival? Maybe it's just me but if people want to pretend they have seen me somewhere elese when I was murdering someone I would actually be quite happy since I would have an alibi. Sure, it would be a weird experience but K1 once again tried to find the truth in an extremely reckless way. And why did he go to check on Satoko's uncle's body rather than visit the house and see whether the man was alive or not?

1 : The officer who dug the hole taking throwing out K1 comented that the soil was getting harder,meaning they're digging deeper than the original hole,wich would mean K1 did dig a hole on the night of the Festival,wich he supposedly attended.So that places him in 2 locations

Maybe someone else dug this hole, though.

2 : How did Oishii know to go to the exact location of Keichii's hole in the middle of a rainy night?After all,if K1 didn't kill the uncle,what reason would Oishii have of following him?

Irie might have notified the police about Keiichi's confession and they might have followed Keiichi to the hole. Or maybe Oishi is behind the murders together with Takano so she told him where the hole was before faking her death again. ;)

3 : Why did Rena insist to see K1's clinic receipt?


Because K1 is such a bad liar that it was obviously that his main problem was not a sickness at that moment.

If the girls lied about seeing him at the Festival why didn't they inform him earlier? They must know he is a bad liar and his surprise will be obvious, exposing the truth. And I don't think how this lie would hold up in any investigation if no one but his friends claim they have seen him in a event attended by all the residents of Hinamizava. I don't like the supernatural explanation but it seems likely that someone looking much like Keiichi did show up at the Festival.

[BakaOnna]

Wouldn't it be more convenient just to assume that the girls are lying in order to protect Keiichi? I mean Considering this happened on the night of Watanagashi they're probably trying to give him an alibi in an attempt to keep him from meeting an unpleasant fate like Satoshi.
That's what I thought to. It seemed really... weird how they were acting around him. Anyway, as the others have said, even though not much happened in this episode, it still got an excellent from me. :) I love this series. Can't wait to watch episode 13.

[Vicke]

1 : The officer who dug the hole taking throwing out K1 comented that the soil was getting harder,meaning they're digging deeper than the original hole,wich would mean K1 did dig a hole on the night of the Festival,wich he supposedly attended.So that places him in 2 locations


Kei-chan pre dug the first hole during the day and he seemed to have finished in the evening, where he possible could have gone to the festival.

Also since he dug 2 holes he might actually have burried the corpse in the other hole. Right now I do think that Tippei is dead and everyone that says he was at the festival is just lying. I think Rena, Mion and Rika knows/suspects that Kai-chan killed Tippei.
"There's a possibility that sudden drowsiness will cause an outburst of mistrust and derangement." That sounds abit like syringe scene in ep.4.

[BakaOnna]

If I remembered correctly, his first hole was dug at where he thought he buried the body in this episode. But wasn't the body buried in the second hole which was covered by a bunch of leaves and branches. So... Keiichi probably forgot about the other hole.

Also... if the girls are lying to Keiichi, is there a possibly that Sakoto was imagining the uncle...?? I don't know. This episode was really confusing to follow, even though not much happened.

[lifestorm2]

yes, this episode made me go "WTF?" many times /X\

a few things that really really confused me



At first i thought the others were covering up k1, but...after they talked about the shooting range....it felt strange....it felt like...sorry for the bad reference, but that k1 went into the twlight zone O_o'....all that shooting gallery stuff.....wasn't that in the first arc?...if i remember right i read it in the TIPS ....(or was it on a blog site?)

anyhow....i'm just really confused.....ack....thanks, higurashi, for making my head go from sick to worst >_>

[Akuryou]

Awesome episode, must I say.

Ah, so like our now-bad-guy Oishi said, "the dead are walking a lot in this case", aren't they?

Ms. Takano and Mr. Satoko's Uncle are examples of undeads.

[ChainLegacy]

This episode did a good job of me questioning just what has been going on. I'm no detective, so I'm having a pretty hard time figuring this all out. I guess I'll just have to wait until the next episode to see.

[Likely]

having never played the game or read the manga (if there is one), i tend to agree with paranoia833 about how the girls are protecting him. there was a hole there upon redigging so k1 was doing some digging that night. also, when he asked satoko about her uncle after the fact, the conviction in her dislike for her uncle could be as indirect way of telling k1 she is fine with him dead, and that k1 did the right thing.

so, put my bet in for... k1 is not insane and that the girls are protecting him. all the girls except rena that is, who has something to do with teh curse because she wanted him to go to the doctor (to die somehow).

by the way, 13 isnt the finale of this series is it? it would suck if it's the last doh!

[Scorch]

This is probably off the wall, but
What if that wasn't Tomitake in the trunk? What if Takano dug up the corpse of Teppei? Her comments about stray dogs digging corpses up in the car could be just general creepiness, or it could be something else entirely.

[paraalso]

Oishi and the police were marking Houjou Teppei's house for murder this year. Why would they think Hinamizawa resident's would murder him, unless Oishi already knew about the abuse? I have a strong suspicion Oishi not only knew about it, but also made sure the Child Protection Agency wouldn't do anything, in order to expose the murderers.

Another tip could be from Satoko's point of view. She is thinking about killing her uncle and then thinking "Aah, but still someone is saying sorry over and over again...." Could Satoko have multiple personalities? And who is the dead guy who was saying the same things as her uncle?

[Meteo-kun]

Something I thaught of...
Did anyone noticed that Rena said that she and Mion were going to do a Treasure Hunt? Could it be that they were going to dug Teppei's body so they could hide it and protect Keiichi?

[rogueblade]

If I remembered correctly, his first hole was dug at where he thought he buried the body in this episode. But wasn't the body buried in the second hole which was covered by a bunch of leaves and branches. So... Keiichi probably forgot about the other hole.

Also... if the girls are lying to Keiichi, is there a possibly that Sakoto was imagining the uncle...?? I don't know. This episode was really confusing to follow, even though not much happened.

Yeah, that's what i thought as well - wasn't the new one dug next to the road? I couldn't see a road in the vicinity of that scene, although that might just be the way the artists have drawn it.
Anyway, this episode really threw me off track - at the end of the previous episode i was thinking along the lines that Satoko would just hate Keiichi and the girls would attempt to kill him because of what he did to Satoko's uncle (and hence, Satoko).

I think the doppelganger thing is a red herring - it would really suck if that was the real answer to these events, seems a bit cheap. Anyway, onto the spoiler speculation!

Concerning Takano's (the creepy lady - i think that's the right name) death - we know she dies in every chapter regardless of what Keiichi does, so i don't think Keiichi has any direct involvement with her death, but he gets the impression that he has done.
On another note, I'm sure Rena's encounter with the curse will come into play next episode, there's something that's linking this all back to the curse - and since Rena has had such an encounter with the curse before, i'm sure something significant will happen with her.

Quickly - it's interesting to note that in this chapter Rena feels very strongly about the curse, unlike watangashi and onukukashi.

Finally, remember that Shion and Rena decided to go "treasure hunting"? Is it just me, or is it too coincedental that these two go off to treasure hunt, knowing that Keiichi will be at the doctors for a while, and will most likely return to the grave, and then Keiichi finds an empty grave?
It seems Rena and Shion are trying to cover Keiichi's ass here.

On a sub note, a lot of eyework going on this episode, and i didn't really like Keiichi's eyes during the car scene with takano. It seemed hugely unnerving and random really.

[Nork22]

I'm curious, what's Brovarin and Isomytal? I tried to do a Google search on these 'chemicals' but I've come up empty.

[Shiroth]

Ok.. episode 12 was just insane all over. I can easily say i've never seen anything like this episode that has left me with so many questions..

[steelbound]

I was wondering what those two drugs (Isomytal and Brovarin) were too so I did a little digging.

According to a website chemindustry.com another name for Isomytal is Amobarbital which wiki had an article about. Amobarbital is a drug which is a barbiturate derivative and has sedative-hypnotic and analgesic properties. The wiki article included a list of side effects for an overdose which included: confusion (severe); decrease in or loss of reflexes; drowsiness (severe); fever; irritability (continuing); low body temperature; poor judgment; shortness of breath or slow or troubled breathing; slow heartbeat; slurred speech; staggering; trouble in sleeping; unusual movements of the eyes; weakness (severe).

The other drug Brovarin was a little harder to find. According to the same website Brovarin has other names of Bromisoval and Bromisovalum. I couldn't find either of these on wiki but on a couple of other websites it said that this drug was a sedative and mild hypnotic with potentially toxic effects.

Fun stuff. Wonder if Keiichi been slipped these drugs before.

[Morgri]

This episode is easily one of, if not the, best episode i've seen so far in this series.

[Deku Kirby]

Finally, remember that Shion and Rena decided to go "treasure hunting"? Is it just me, or is it too coincedental that these two go off to treasure hunt, knowing that Keiichi will be at the doctors for a while, and will most likely return to the grave, and then Keiichi finds an empty grave?
It seems Rena and Shion are trying to cover Keiichi's ass here.

That's what we'd like to believe, but there are still two problems with that theory.

1. I doubt Satoko would lie about her uncle being alive. Her reaction to Keiichi's words were too realistic to be a farce.

2. Rena and Shion/Mion have no reason to dig up the body, nor a place to put it. Let alone could they find out where the grave is.

[Vicke]

That's what we'd like to believe, but there are still two problems with that theory.

1. I doubt Satoko would lie about her uncle being alive. Her reaction to Keiichi's words were too realistic to be a farce.


Remember that Satoko thinks that Satoshi will come back if she endures the abuse by Tippei, so maybe she is in denial.

[Jinsoo]

This episode was an eye opener o_O; Made me go, "WHAT THE HELL MAN? O_O EP 13 NAO!!!"

But I remember in the previous episode. Keiichi and his mom were talking about the perfect crime, right? Keiichi's mom said the perfect crime is a crime that never happened. So...

>_>;

[I<3killerloli's]

I have a few theories about this episode:

The Logical Theory (or as close to logical as you can get in Higurashi)

Keiichi didn't kill Teppei at all. He actually went to Watanagashi and the murder was all in his head. He was dillusional. The rain alos doesn't coincide with Watanagashi, so it was in his head.

The Less Logical Theory

The person at Watanagashi was Satoshi, who has been behind this episode all along. The dug up body has too many theories for me to guess what happened.

The WTF theory

This entire series is occuring in multiple dimensions and the dimensions are starting to overlap, resulting in paradoxes such as these were there are two Keiichi's at differnt times.

One more thing, spoilers for the next archs theories and game:

I hear that this may be the last time we see Keiichi as main charcter, as the other archs are told from other people's perspectives.

[rocket]

Episode 12 in six letters: OMG! WTF?

(^_^)

One of the best so far, really this series is not what I expected...


Psychotic hallucination on Keiichi's part, or doppelganger deamon?

Actually, between this episode and the chapter resets now I'm thinking there's a third option - some kind of parallel reality thing going on. Keiichi's got some kind of Sliders/Quantum Leap ability going on (Not that I've seen either show really so maybe it's a bad example). In other words Keiichi (and others) are somehow slipping between parallel realities.

A simple doppelganger/demon doesn't explain why it was raining for Keiichi and Takano the night of the festival but not for everybody else. If Keiichi's just goining insane then why does the show keep resetting, and how do "the dead walk"?

Some kind of multiple reality thing could explain why Takano would remember Keiichi and it might explain some of the other timing paradoxes in the previous chapters if the girls are also shifting realities...

Of course this ability to shift realities is ultimately going to be tied to the history of the demon's curse, the flowers, the cicadas, and geting bonked on the head! (^_-)

[rocket]

I have a few theories about this episode:
The WTF theory
This entire series is occuring in multiple dimensions and the dimensions are starting to overlap, resulting in paradoxes such as these were there are two Keiichi's at differnt times.


(;_;) Wah! You beat me to it! Well kinda...


I don't think it's a collision of realities. I think it's *something* that's allowing a few select people (cursed?) to slip between realities, sometimes visiting a reality where their other self is doing something else...

[ApathyEcstasy]

I have a few theories about this episode:

The Logical Theory (or as close to logical as you can get in Higurashi)

Keiichi didn't kill Teppei at all. He actually went to Watanagashi and the murder was all in his head. He was dillusional. The rain alos doesn't coincide with Watanagashi, so it was in his head.

The Less Logical Theory

The person at Watanagashi was Satoshi, who has been behind this episode all along. The dug up body has too many theories for me to guess what happened.

The WTF theory

This entire series is occuring in multiple dimensions and the dimensions are starting to overlap, resulting in paradoxes such as these were there are two Keiichi's at differnt times.

One more thing, spoilers for the next archs theories and game:

I hear that this may be the last time we see Keiichi as main charcter, as the other archs are told from other people's perspectives.


hmm for your last spoiler..that may not be such a bad thing...i've personally gotten sick of keiichi

[Mr. Guy]

I submit my own theories based off I<3killerloli's format of "Logical", "Less Logical", and "WTF". These are all based off my initial impressions of the the latest episode, minus any TIPS and without knowledge from reading this thread :eyespin:


Everyone knows what Keiichi did and are trying to cover for him. When I heard what they were saying to him in the episode, this was my first impression. It sounded oddly like they were trying to force an alibi into his head (explaining what they were doing in great detail, etc). Keiichi is perfectly sane.

Takano is NOT dead (in fact, I believe she never dies in any scenario) and is probably one of the masterminds behind all of this. She probably killed Tomitake-san and buried him in Keiichi’s first hole. She later moves the sign, blah blah, and Keiichi digs another and dumps Teppei in. She’s watching throughout all this and picks him up, talks to him, goes back and takes Teppei’s corpse out and burns it up in the hills. She had previously forged her dental records so it looked like it was her that was burned.


That was Satoshi returned, with dyed brown hair, at the festival. He looks vaguely similar to Keiichi and is probably the best candidate for a doppelganger. Assuming, of course, that Keiichi isn’t off his rocker.


It’s all an extremely deep, Scooby Doo-esque coverup to hide the true crime of Himamizawa… extensive pot/other illegal substance growing. Yes, you read right. Everyone’s a pothead. This extensive network is being funded almost completely by the Sonozaki family with the clinic lead by Irie-san being the front for it all. This is also why the Sonozaki family was so adamant about not allowing the dam to be constructed. Had the dam been constructed, then all of their plants (grown in the Onigafuchi Marsh) would have been wiped out and the Sonozaki family would have lost a valuable source of income. So in order to make sure that the dam was never completed they played off the curse of Oyashiro-sama as a “Scooby Doo” kind of deterrent.

Irie-san, being a doctor, has extensive knowledge in the use of lab equipment as well as chemicals so it’s only natural for him to be the lead “creator” of these illegal substances. Takano, being the babe she is, naturally is able to bum a few of these “creations” off Irie (hence the droopy eyes, she’s always high) in return for enforcing the Oyashiro-sama coverup story. Tomitake is either one of the main dealers from the city or accidentally managed to cop a few pictures of the Hinamizawa crop. He was killed by Takano either because he learned their secret, or because of some internal strife within the ring.

Takano is also either the woman Teppei went off with or someone with some sort of relation to Satako. Either way it allows her some sort of connection to one of the group’s main test subjects for some of their more potent “creations”. Teppei’s abuse may have also involved injecting her with certain drugs (hence her dilated pupils). Satako’s uncle is simply a pawn of Takano, as was Satako’s aunt when she was alive (Takano’s influence then could have possibly came from maybe being a third sister/other aunt to Satako/having an affair with Teppei during marriage).

Rena was a similar case to Satako but was probably one of the earlier test subjects to a more potent drug. Possibly a high dose of the chemicals that Irie was talking about giving to Keiichi? Mion also takes a similar drug for either recreational purposes (she’s the big cheese) or because they were forced on to her because of someone higher up in the organization. Either way, these drugs are what gives them their odd personality issues.

And that was much too long even for a joke theory :heh:

[Sinestra]

Well what to say about this episode. hummmm WTF the only thing i am sure of anymore is that Higrashi will eventually give me a blood clot in my head. I am pretty sure that Keiichi is very dillusional at this point his eyes thorugh the entire episode were just creepy. I believe that that he did attend the ferstival everything else was in his head

[Shizen]

We see the whole thing from Keiichis point of view. So his strange eyes are maybe a delusion too :confused:
Wait, Keiichi, can't know, how his eyes looked anyway:heh:

[Redbeard]

First of all, I have to say that I really don't know what to make of the recent turn of events in this arc. Every time I start to sort things out, they throw one of those wonderfully insane plot twists that I like so much. It's kinda like trying to win a game of Battleship when your opponent keeps moving his ships between every shot :D.

But anyway, back to my point. I thought the issue with the two holes was fairly interesting. I suppose a spoiler tag would be appropriate for the rest of my rambling though.

At first I thought ol' K1 mixed up the grave's location. However upon close observation and rewatching of episode 11, this is not the case. He DID dig up the right hole. In fact, when he went to bury Teppei in 11, he had to go get the shovel and if you will all remember, he actually remembered the first hole then and went to fill it back in. The problem was our poor friend couldn't find it again. He went to the exact spot he dug it and it was gone! This scene was rather short and easily glossed over by the recent episode, but has a great deal of importance nonetheless. After all of K1's careful preparation, something happened to that first hole before he murdered Teppei(or at least before he imagined that he did it depending on what you believe happened). I'm not really sure what could have happened to that hole yet, unfortunately. I've yet to take any of my assumptions in that direction. Oh, and one last interesting observation. I noticed NONE of the leaves or that huge branch present in 12 when he was digging up the hole again.

Oh, and I, too, decided to research the two drugs last night after watching episode 12. I have to say, glad someone else thought of that too. I found the same thing that steelbound found out about the Isomytal/Amobarbital, but I also found an interesting article about Brovarin, aka Bromisoval. I highlighted the more interesting pieces of the article. The symptoms should all be able to be wiki'ed, I recall none that I couldn't find.

BROVARIN

Brovarin aka Bromisoval aka Bromvalerylurea

Three cases of chronic bromisoval intoxication: clinical symptoms and application of energy dispersive X-ray analysis (EDX) to detect bromine in serum, urine and cerebrospinal fluid.

Kurokawa Y, Fukatsu R, Takasaka Y, Chiba T, Yamashita I, Asano Y.

Bromisoval has been used as a hypnotic for the past several decades, and its abuse was known to cause various neurological as well as psychiatric symptoms. Three patients showed a variety of symptoms which could not be explained neuroanatomically: nystagmus, gait disturbance and hyperreflexia of the limbs in all the cases, dysarthria, double vision, hypotonia, ataxic gait and disturbance of consciousness occasionally and auditory agnosia in one case. For the purpose of determining the diagnosis, an energy dispersive X-ray microanalysis (EDX) was used to detect bromine. Five microliters of specimens were placed on the carbon-coated mesh, and using a TN-2000 analyzer, characteristic X-ray peaks of bromine were detected in the serum, urine and cerebrospinal fluid. The sensitivity to detect bromine in the serum was 30 micrograms/ml.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3626193&dopt=Abstract
-Edit: I noticed that the link to the article didn't appear, so I removed the hyperlink and left it as text.-

I had some more thoughts on the drugs and theories relating them back to Watanagashi-hen, but I think I'll organize them a bit more first and post them later. Oh, and I also had an interesting musing on what could happen in episode 13 based on the reaction of the members that have played the game and some observations of the anime, but I don't know if it would be appropriate to post here considering the thread guidelines and, of course, the thread topic. I would like to bounce it off of some people, though.

[Jinsoo]

At first I thought ol' K1 mixed up the grave's location. However upon close observation and rewatching of episode 11, this is not the case. He DID dig up the right hole. In fact, when he went to bury Teppei in 11, he had to go get the shovel and if you will all remember, he actually remembered the first hole then and went to fill it back in. The problem was our poor friend couldn't find it again. He went to the exact spot he dug it and it was gone! This scene was rather short and easily glossed over by the recent episode, but has a great deal of importance nonetheless. After all of K1's careful preparation, something happened to that first hole before he murdered Teppei(or at least before he imagined that he did it depending on what you believe happened). I'm not really sure what could have happened to that hole yet, unfortunately. I've yet to take any of my assumptions in that direction. Oh, and one last interesting observation. I noticed NONE of the leaves or that huge branch present in 12 when he was digging up the hole again.


Yeah, I noticed that the leaves and branch weren't there too. Made me think, either they skipped the scene where he took out the branches and all, or he was digging a different spot. But I rewatched that scene in ep 12, and it looked exactly like the spot where he buried him(minus the big branch). And I don't think if he was in a hurry to dig his corpse back up, he would throw the branch really far so it should've been within sight, shouldn't it? If it was all in his head, then why was the bat missing? And his bike was still out there too. I'm ditching my idea of "the perfect crime was a crime that never happened" cos if it didn't happen, the bat would still be in the locker. And I think the girls are covering up for him too. They always know what's going on with Keiichi anyway >.>;

[Nork22]

I had some more thoughts on the drugs and theories relating them back to Watanagashi-hen, but I think I'll organize them a bit more first and post them later. Oh, and I also had an interesting musing on what could happen in episode 13 based on the reaction of the members that have played the game and some observations of the anime, but I don't know if it would be appropriate to post here considering the thread guidelines and, of course, the thread topic. I would like to bounce it off of some people, though.
So the Doc plans to make K1 hallucinate... but what's the point when K1's already hallucinating, unless there's some strange reaction when mixing these 2 chemicals. A sedative perhaps?

[LordAshram]

Some speculation on what might have happened with Tomitake in each arc...


As we found out directly in the first two arcs, and in the TIPS for this one, Tomitake always ends up clawing out his own throat in a way similar to how Keiichi did in the first arc. In the first arc, when Rena and Mion were giving Keiichi that syringe that seemingly made him go completely nuts, they called it a penalty game. Notice that in this episode, Rika mentioned that at the festival, they played a game with Tomitake, but he came in last and they had a "fun penalty game."

Could this mean that the girls are ultimately responsible for Tomitake's death in this arc, and the others?


And about that bat Keiichi used... He remembered to check for it in the locker, but he seems to have forgotten he also hid it in a hole in a wooden shed before he allegedly murdered Satoko's uncle. It's possible that it's still in there, and went delusional sometime before he thought he took it out again.

[I<3killerloli's]

But why? The killer lolis are seemingly less and less killer with each passing episode. Now everybody else seems to be in the mood for murder.

[Killer Loli]

Wow, this episode introduced us to the possibility of a doppelgänger. Originally, I believed that there had to be a logical reason (non-supernatural) behind all this, but I am not sure anymore. If there truly is a doppelgänger running around, it will definitely tie up a lot of loose ends. Although, that explaination would be a little too convenient.

First of all i'd like to say is i love this series, i mean each chapter could've been it's own 13+ episode anime.
Anyways i've always thought that these different arcs/scenarios/chapters were like divergent universes; they all have the same history, same characters, same everything, up until the beginning of each chapter, thats when the different decisions of K1 create different story arcs, reflecting how the original higurashi was a visual novel/game. But now with the introduction of doppelganger, it raises the unlikely but possibility that all these arcs are happening simultaneously in the same universe.

well thats my WTF theory, i mean its more logical to think that the girls are just trying to cover for K1's buttox (sry been watchn forest gump) and create an alibi for him, but wouldn't it be cool if all the arcs were happening at the same time

[AzureFlux]

I hear that this may be the last time we see Keiichi as main charcter, as the other archs are told from other people's perspectives.

This is definitely not the last time you will be seeing K1 as the main character. While the later arcs are told from other character's POV, the game still switches back to K1's perspective every now and then. In terms of storyline, K1 is definitely still the main character.

[keke]

Yeah, I noticed that the leaves and branch weren't there too. Made me think, either they skipped the scene where he took out the branches and all, or he was digging a different spot. But I rewatched that scene in ep 12, and it looked exactly like the spot where he buried him(minus the big branch). And I don't think if he was in a hurry to dig his corpse back up, he would throw the branch really far so it should've been within sight, shouldn't it? If it was all in his head, then why was the bat missing? And his bike was still out there too. I'm ditching my idea of "the perfect crime was a crime that never happened" cos if it didn't happen, the bat would still be in the locker. And I think the girls are covering up for him too. They always know what's going on with Keiichi anyway >.>;

Remember that K1 initally took the bat out of the locker and hid it so he could use it later for the murder. The murder itself may have all happened in his head, but perhaps his planning and preperations were real. This means digging the hole and hiding the bat.

This would explain why there is a hole for him to 'recheck' at the end of ep12. But it doesn't explain why the hole was already filled with dirt again. The policeman confirmed that the site was previously dug since the earth was soft, but there was no one to fill the hole after K1 dug it.

Also what could have made K1 go to the festival instead of going out with his plan? It appears that K1 went to make the phonecall right after digging his hole. Perhaps we actually did make the call, but fell asleep waiting for Satako's uncle to arrive? Then maybe in a half-sleep phase went to the festival? Although this doesn't really tie together, unless his encounter with Takano was also imaginary along with everything up until the next day. Then perhaps he actually went to the festival in a very tired state and later went home afterwards. Then that night dreamed all the events we saw in the last half of ep11.

[orion]

For my 2 cents worth on the drugs...

I think that what Dr. Irie was doing was mixing a "cocktail" (Medications with certain properties combined to achieve a specific purpose, like sedation or anesthesia) to be adminstered to Kei by mouth. In this case, he was givng Kei 2 different medications in order to render him unconscious and/or calm him down. The tech that was with Dr. Irie was reminding him of the side effects of giving Kei this type of medicine in his condition is "outburst of mistrust and derangement", i.e significantly worsening his condition requiring physical restraining. I don't think that amobarbital and brovarin are available in the U.S. Brovarin is mentioned in a suicide manual.

Either way, the knowledge of this cocktail means that Dr. Irie isn't a "normal" primary care physician and that he has dealt with cases like this before.

A similar version was probably in the syringe in chapter one imo.



Since I don't believe in doppelgangers....

Takano was probably warning him and covered her tracks with a body double again. I mean depending on when she "died" Kei could ruin her alibi.

[aliensporebomb]

What a mind-twister.

I've got my theories but they really likely won't apply.

Eagerly awaiting the next one because this asked more questions than ever.

The doctor is in on something.

Hive mind? Mass hipnosis? Mind control? Mental illness?

I just don't know but I'd met Mion & Co know a few things.

[Chibi_Faerie]

Mr guy's Logical theory is good, except for one thing that-

-Takano would have to be sure of. If she used Teppei's body she would have had to have cremated him good and been sure the corpse wouldn't have been found before the body was gone at least. It sounds like they found her before the body was burnt up completely. The bones would have had to be completely burnt up and gone in some areas. A females bone structure is slightly different than a males would be. If the skull was all that was left of the bone structure I'm not sure how similar/dissimilar a male and female skull are lol. So unless all this were met, and the police don't just assume she's been a guy all this time just following the dental records, were safe to say it's her I think. Or perhaps another woman's corpse that she got out of the hospital. Like an unclaimed body of someone found dead but no one knows who they are That was due to be desposed of as no one had claimed it and they couldn't keep it there forever. Then she could switch the dentals and do it maybe.

Either way... This arc is the most mind boggling yet for me. I swear this episode made my head go 'Kerpoof!'...

[Azn_GooWakJai]

basically this ep is the solution to the prob from the 1st arc. Soooo they are tying every arc bak in from the previous eps?? I mean there are 14 eps left.

[Chibi_Faerie]

I'm not sure, but I believe each of the arcs we have seen so far are the first 2 and now part of 3 question arcs. There is one more Question arc to go if I remember what I read correctly. Then There are answer arcs, which I think basicly are the arcs to clear up the question arcs and tie to them. But I think were only supposed to get the first 2. I know peoples explained this some where here before though.

[diopter]

That's correct: Studio DEEN will cover the 4 question arcs and 2 of the 4 answer arcs. The anime is currently on the 3rd question arc.

[Jaruromania]

Let's pray for OVAs.

And I think that there's a rational explanation for this, and no dopplegangers. If everyone was putting on an act in order to spite Keiichi or prevent Satoko from further mental instability, then Keiichi probably did kill the uncle, didn't go to the festival, and is having his mind messed with.

As for the body, someone could easily have moved it, or Keiichi possibly could have dug in the wrong place. After all, he was in a hurry when he was burying the body, and impusively dug a hole and put the body in.

As for Satoko's claims, the fact that she has already suffered so much and been abused that way means she likely could have been hallucinating her uncle's abuse that she claimed to have happened the day before. Or lying. And there's no visible burn marks from the "hot food thrown at her."

Or Keiichi could have just been hallucinating a great deal. But that leaves a lot of holes.

[RMgX]

I still don't want to believe in supernatural solutions so here I go
Ok from the hints it seems like Teppei isn't home yet. Meaning he could be dead and K1 killed him. That he threw food on Satoko doesn't matter, that could have been before going to the festival since it happened yesterday according to Satoko or am I wrong here.
The reason everybody says they saw K1 is most likely because they are covering for him. It doesn't really have to be that everyone wants to. If the local mafia ( Mion/Shion ) says he was there it is probably not a good idea to disagree.
The girls are saying all these things about the festival either to mess with him into beleiving everything was a fream or to show him they will cover for him.
Takano is probably faking her death, in the series there is a female corpse that has never been found, Satoko's mother's corpse, could that be what is in the trunk?.
Why Tomitake dies everytime I do not know, ( He died this time to by clawing his throat out, see tips ) I guess that he takes a photo of something he shouldn't, could it be of some group of people who are giving an alibi for someone who isn't present, he takes pictures of the gang in the first arc during the festival?
It would be interesting to have some sort of map of the festival area.
Mion says K1 met Rika at the festival grounds.
Rika says she met him outside the assembly hall where she was with the village chief and everyone..
The doc says he was drinking with the chairman and everyone in the main office, is this the same thing as the assembly hall and when was this, before or after the Rika ceremony, It feels natural that the Watanagashi commite would be the "everyone" apart from the chief that Rika speaks off so the way I see it, the doc should therefore have seen K1 speaking to Rika if K1 was indeed there. It just seems to me that Rika's and the docs stories are a bit different, but hard to know without knowing time and if these are the same buildings.
Then there is this rain thing. In the first arc it rains what seems to be 2 days after the festival ( the scene where Rena puts her hand through the door ), this time it rains on the festivalday ( there is a short cut of rain in the actual festival ) Also it rains the day after the festival. I don't understand why this is so.
I also have a hard time explaining how the body could have disappeared, If K1 was digging in the right hole of course. K1 heard something when he got home from the murder, that could have been a cop staking out his location, that would explain why the cops found him digging as he would be a suspect and they might have put a tail on him. It could of course also had been his imagination or one of Mion/Shion's goons or one of the girls checking when he would be back.

[Implosion]

I don't want to believe that something like that is happening, I really don't. I would much rather that something real and solid is happening here. This of course makes me biased against all the talk of doppelgangers and the like. >_<

Well, I guess I'll choose a side here and place most of my trust in Kei-chan's sanity.

The simple answer is that Keiichi did kill the uncle, two or three our lovely killer lolis found out from Takano, killed her as she knew too much, and then moved the body. Satoko is either imagining her uncle, or expertly lying to protect her new ni-ni.

Of course the only support to his sanity is that Kei-chan clearly remembers what happened and an, albeit empty, a hole was actually dug in the ground as the policeman confirmed. Even under that much stress I still think Kei-chan did dig up the right hole, and not the first one. So far he's managed to remain calm through worse circumstances then this, so I don't think he would just 'forget' which hole he buried a corpse in.

By the way, why was a policemen around there anyway? Did he follow Keiichi, get a tip on suspicious action around there, was by some amazing coincidence in a nearly deserted area at the same time as Kei-chan, or did something else important besides the uncle's murder take place around there?

[orion]

For Tomitake and Teppei...

Maybe it's like what Kei's mom said in ep. 11. If nothing starts then nothing happens. Tomitake's death or any death around the festival could be the thing that starts the oyashiro ball rolling. So if Takano is there to observe it, then she starts it with Tomitake's death, conveniently absents herself and observes what happens from the sidelines. Of course, since it's started without Tomitake this time, she needs only to fake her own death. Tomitake can be conveniently buried out of sight and not left out in the open.

The same thing can apply to Teppei. If no one can find the body or report that he is missing, then the police can't investigate. So they have to rough up a few people like Kei to get some evidence. So, the girls are giving him an alibi and he's too thick to notice like Takano was implying earlier in ep. 12. He basically needed to keep quiet and it would have blown over, but he's acting delusional. He has to confirm that he killed someone and that he is "hero" for "saving" Satako and is now in trouble.

I think that Teppei's body was buried in another location and not the one that Kei went to for checking. (That site looked like to site of the killing and not the burial imo.) He buried Teppei in a shallow grave, so animals should have dug his body up by now unless someone moved it. Kei's bike would have acted as a marker for someone to look in a specific area. He also went to the wrong site to check for Satoshi's bat. So, he also has some memory issues imo.


For Satako...

The weight of all those lies are getting to her. ;) Faking those bruises and then implying that hot food was tossed at her and she survived without an injury. Tsk, tsk, tsk.
Seriously, I think that she fears abandonment more then wanting to protect Kei. So, for her to admit that her uncle is gone like her brother would be a very big blow. She did look mad when Kei attempted to confront her about her uncle.

[Jaruromania]

If they're trying to protect Keiichi, shouldn't at least one of them let him know what it is that they're doing, when no one else is around? It's not like he's stupid enough to just go turn himself in if he finds out he actually did kill the uncle and wasn't hallucinating.

Or is he?

[BakaOnna]

I don't like the theory about the whole murder taking place in Keiichi's head, but the more I think about, the more it may make sense. Key word being may since up to the point, I'll believe almost anything and everything that happens in this series.

Ok, the main thing that makes me lean towards the murder taking place in Keiichi's mind theory is the rain. In the first 2 arcs, it didn't rain; but in this one it did. It was also very convenient since it washed off all the blood off Kei's clothes and the murder site. Like the theory, it possible that Kei planned out the whole thing and called Teppei but never actually killed him. What if Satoshi's bat is actually still located in that hidden plank board thingy? Kei never went back to check that place so it might still be there. Also, it started raining after Teppei got beaten to death. Coincidence? I don't know, I'm probably wrong.

I think I should've given this episode a 10 instead of a 9 because just this one episode was able to mess up a number of probable theories and turn this whole mystery around. The group that made this game is genius.

[FatPianoBoy]

I'm currently thinking that Kei did indeed imagine the whole thing.
As for how he was both on the road and at the festival, I'm still WTF-ing over that. Doppleganger isn't sitting well with me, considering that in the previous arcs that was definitely K1 at the festival - flirting with Shion, like the others said.
Somehow, the photographer is the key to this whole thing. Well, I doubt he's really a photographer, though. What kind of photographer wears dogtags and is more ripped than your average football player? :rolleyes:
The Watanagashied body in episode nine is another huge clue. Just not sure where it fits yet.
Those policemen weren't acting like normal policemen. There was something weird going on with them. I can't really elaborate on why I think this, though.
It's been obvious for a while that Takano feigned her demise. Did she kill her picture-taking friend? I think so.


A 10, because, while nothing happened, I can see this being a must-rewatch episode later. Like others said, it makes or breaks your theories.

I wonder if there's an English translation of this game floating around somewhere :eyespin:

[Jaruromania]

There's a lot of holes with the "It's all in Keiichi's head" theory.


1) So if the murder was all in Keiichi's head, then where was Keiichi at the time? At the festival? Then, what's in a hallucination? Was he able to act sane during the festival without remembering a single thing about it? If he imagined murdering Teppei, shouldn't his actions/speech during that time at least mildly coincide with what he actually did? (i.e. swung bat at nothing or a rock as opposed to Teppei). Also, why would he go to the festival in the first place? That goes against everything he was trying to do. He carefully planned out the murder and prepared for it extensively, meaning he fully intends to carry it out. It's possible he was hallucinating without going to the festival, but that defeats the purpose of "It's all in his head" in the first place.
2) What about Takano? Was everything she said imagined too? Everything that was there? Tomitake's bicycle, the body, everything? What about "was the body buried properly?" It's possible he misheard that, but Takano said far too many disturbing things for them all to be imagined.
3) If it was imagined, then where'd the bat go? If Keiichi took the bat out, it means that he seriously intended to kill Teppei, doesn't it?

I think that they were lying in order to protect him/Satoko.

[Redbeard]

Ok, finally organized my thoughts as to what happened. I think this is the only logical explanation for the events that occurred. If anyone notices any major holes (very likely considering the show's track record:eyespin:), please point them out. It is rather late now so I hope I didn't leave anything out...

Ok, first of all the only plausible option is that K1 actually did kill Teppei. Now, we know that K1 actually did prepare by hiding the bat, finding a good burial site, getting a shovel and pre-digging the grave. He then retrieves the bat, calls Teppei, and kills him. He can't get the body to the pre-dug hole, and finds that the hole has vanished in the time between the digging and murder. Someone most likely filled it in. If someone had used it, I'm sure it would have been at least noticeable to him. Besides, who could have used it in that time? Considering that Takano murdered Tomitake (more on that in a sec;)) around the time that K1 actually murdered Teppei and also gave him a ride home, it seems unlikely that Takano could have used the hole to bury Tomitake given the time-frame. Anyway, K1 gets the shovel and returns to bury the body where he had killed him. He meets Takano on the way back, and gets a ride home. It's blatantly obvious that she had killed Tomitake as she had his bike. It's also possible that he could have been in the trunk. It's impossible to say for certain since we don't hear where they found his body, but it is a likely assumption. As for who K1 heard at his house, I personally think that this was either an accomplice of Takano, or her would be murderer seeing as they would of heard what K1 said and thus we have Takano burning to death in the mountains like in Watanagashi-hen (faking it in the case of the accomplice, thus tying it to Oyashiro's curse). The next day, of course Mion & co. are covering up for K1. Notice that in addition to Rika's obvious lie, Satoko's behavior could only be explained by Teppei's death. He never returned home that night, we can confirm this from one of the TIPS. Of course this is devastating to Satoko because now she has no trial to endure. For her that means that Satoshi won't return now, no more nii-nii. Well, that is unless no one else knows that there's no more trial to endure. If she PRETENDS that Teppei is still there abusing her and fools everyone, then just maybe Satoshi will still return. I wouldn't be surprised if she even began to inflict some of the made up wounds on herself in the near future as well. Of course when Mion & Rena go on that treasure hunt, they followed K1 to where he hid his bike and went to move the body. That would also explain why the log and leaves were gone when K1 was digging up the hole that night, but unfortunately not why he missed something so obvious. That should mostly wrap things up. Now the question is what K1 will do in regards to this. After all, it would seem that only one thing would truly make Satoko "better" again. But is K1 really so mentally unstable as to do something like that? Oh, as a final note, the fact that K1 picked up his bike where he left does at the least prove that he wasn't at Watanagashi that evening and that he did ride home with Takano.

[willem113]

I realy loved this ep.
Keiichi killed Satako's uncle and buried him but is wasn't him.
So i'm tinking it's gotta be the curse of the shrine god.

[Matrim]

If they're trying to protect Keiichi, shouldn't at least one of them let him know what it is that they're doing, when no one else is around? It's not like he's stupid enough to just go turn himself in if he finds out he actually did kill the uncle and wasn't hallucinating.

Exactly. As I said earlier in this thread, the girls should be aware that Keiichi is an awful liar so in order for this alibi cover story to have any chance of succeeding they should inform him as soon as possible. In Watanagashi it became clear the policemen were on the alert during the festival, I'd venture that this is probably true for this arc, too. So it's not a stretch to assume that some policeman was there to see whether there will be peopel who might not attend the show. If that's the case the whole alibi thing is pointless unless someone very similar to K1 was in fact attending the festival. Satoko might be deluding herself that her uncle is alive but the other three lying about Keiichi being at the festival makes no sense to me. So we have three options:
- Someone was at the festival who looked exactly like K1. Only Satoshi comes to mind but I doubt he resembles Keiichi that much so that the girls would mistake him for Keiichi.
- The girls actually told K1 about the alibi plan but he forgot that for some reason. Not too bloody likely, though.
- He actually attended the festival and the whole murdering sequence of events was in his imagination. I don't like this explanation either, it's like we always explain the most puzzling things in every arc in that way, I don't think it's this simple.
I have the nagging suspicion that someone (Takano?) organized the whole thing in order to drive Keiichi crazy. Of course, that begs the question "Why?" and unfortunately I don't have an answer. :)

[rocket]

Well, one way or another it's all going to hinge on whether..
...we can find some evidence that Keiichi murdered Teppei.

I'll put good money that next episode we'll get:
1. Proof that Keiichi was at the festival (that is more than just hearsay from the girls who could be being orchestrated by Mion into covering for him), or proof that it didn't rain the night of the festival.
2. Proof that Keiichi did meet Takano on the road (something with her, her car, bicycle or something).

Why?

Because that way we'll be really out of options - hallucination or simple murder wont cut it anymore - and the series seems to try and push us slowly step by step into more and more outlandish supernatural solutions! (^_^);;

[LostBlue]

The Bike
In the last EP, K1 had to leave his bike behind. In the Sound Novel, after much discontent, Takano put the bike in her car ("You're lucky I'm nice" *insert 3v1l grin*). I don't remember seeing the bike being retrieved.

Teppei
K1 also forgot his flashlight which he used to dig the new hole in the novel. He locates the flashlight to confirm that this was the place he "buried" Teppei.

Takano
I wish they kept more of Takano's lines and K1's thoughts during the entire time. After Takano drops him off, I got chills down my spine when she said again "You're lucky I'm nice" *shivers* Also K1 didn't just wish for her to die, he specified how she should die. If we ever have a poll of the creepiest characters in the series, Takano has my vote.

The locker
Satoshi's uniform is missing... I thought it was still in there in the novel... memory is vague on that.

The classroom talk
All the stuff the girls said K1 did is a retelling of K1's actions in Onigakushi, except for talking to Rika.

Satoko
The episode didn't pt out that Satoko didn't go to the festival. The girls tried to get her to come out but on the way there, Satoko ran back home. I miss Satoko's furious reaction at K1. She got really annoyed at him as he went around asking everyone how he enjoyed the festival.

The walk home with Rena
The mood was different than what I imagined from reading the Novels. Probably b/c I was still on edge. The scene was done well, and I'm glad they kept in Rena's interest in seeing the receipt.

Irie
I like how they did this entire scene, but again I miss K1's monologue. "Have I gone crazy or is this town crazy?"

The dig
The police scene was also done well. Very satisfied with that. But I did wish that they explain why K1 went to the grave site instead of Satako's house. He couldn't bare seeing the dead walking. It was much easier for his mind. He knows what "reality" he went through. Going to Satoko's house and seeing Teppei would confirm this fantasy which he didn't want to accept. Also ever since he was dropped off by Takano, he kept on hearing footsteps behind him but no one is there behind him (maybe to cut out the guilt trip explanation that Irie came up with). Everything is different, the town, his "experience," the continual existence of the uncle, was change from that moment. This world isn't what it should be. He questioned himself several times whether he was placed in a different world. Oh, I just remembered something. K1 fell asleep in Takano's car. And from that point on he's been like this.

All in all, it wasn't a bad episode. I guess like Sushi-Y has been saying, the absence of K1's monologue changes the feel of the story slightly. But they did keep in all the major events. I guess the details I feel missing are considered "minor" but game wise they felt like "major" clues to K1's disorientation, but I don't know as I haven't read far enough yet.

I'm excited for the next EP tho. With or without the epilogues the ending will still be a jaw-dropper. Although I still pray for the epilogues for completeness.

[Gains]

This episode is very confusing to me.


-The doppelganger thing is not true. I can agree with the fact that Hinamizawa tried to protect K1 with a lie regarding his involvement in Watanagashi festival. After all, K1 called Mion before the start of the festival with Mion questioning his motives and the next day she is in a happy mood saying that K1 does lots of things in the festival. I can see Mion organizing the lie from the phone call.
-"We never met tonight" I believe in your words, oh Takano-sama~
-Satoko's "abuse" is very questionable but it seemed logical since it probably happened before the murder took place. The possibility of it as a lie also makes sense (see TIPS, the report on Satoko's lie to the Child Protection service).
-Tomitake died again. Poor, poor Tommy.
-Irie is highly suspicious. From his attempt to persuade K1 with his doppelganger theory, saying that it was all in his imagination, the thank you for saving Satoko speech, and his knowledge in the drugs that will be used to subdue K1 (as the final means to silence K1 and stop the murder story from leaking out to the police since if the corpse is found then he might be forced to agree to the police's invesigation, I don't know though since I don't know how far can he refuse interrogation as a doctor), there is a possibility that he is also orchestrating the murder (in ep11 I said that Takano is the main puppeteer). Telling stories on Satoko's abuse, Satoshi's disappearance, and everything in this episode is very suspicious. By having K1 went "delusional" and declared insane, the secret will remain hidden within Hinamizawa.
-K1 has blended quite well in this arc, to the length of wishing people to die, Oyashiro-sama style.
-Why is the hole empty? Is it the first hole that K1 dug? Did someone remove Teppei's body? I'm still unsure regarding this.

I have my own suspicions also regarding Takano

It seems that in every arc, her whereabouts after the festival is unknown.

In Onikakushi she disappeared, allegedly hidden by Oyashiro-sama. It's highly possible that she fled from Hinamizawa after getting what she wants (information on Watanagashi).

In Watanagashi and Tatarigoroshi she happened to be found dead near Gifu with the same cause, burned in a drum can. The theory is that she faked her death with another corpse after forging her dental record. This coincide with what's inside the trunk in Tatarigoroshi since Tommy is dead clawing his throat.

Is it possible that Takano is the successful one in solving Hinamizawa's murders?

[Serenity85]

Well Takano is definitly one creepy character *THOSE EYES just bug me and give me shivers* but I thinks theres a logical reasoning behind her knowing about Teppi's murdur:

The first clue to this is her car. Remeber when K1 is buring teppi's body a car drives by honking the horn. However it doesn't stop and keeps on going so K1 thinks nothing of it. Later Takano appears in her car, notice the frame, very similar to the one that went by ealier also it is coming from the opposite direction. Also, altough it was hard to tell, both cars are the same color. Theory, the first car is takano heading of to go kill Tomitake and sees K1 buring a body. When we see her again is after Tomiyakes murdur. This is plausable cause A. she can't put K1's bike in the trunk cause theres a body in it. B. Tomitakes bike is in the car, she says its hers but we have yet to see her riding one. C. she says "we never met tonight" ie. i didn't see your crime and you don't know about mine. She then leaves and heads back into the mountain to dispose of the body (Tomitake's) and fake her death.

Thats all have so far, need to rewatch again and wait for 13 to be subbed

[Datj]

You know....

Im going to agree with a good amount of people here.

I wasnt thinking that it was real..and the murder did happen. But now it happen more and more like this was all a delusion...simple and pure delusion.


Well maybe not so simple.

[Fernando Hernandez]

I was just reading the Tatarigoroshi-Hen Manga and I have to say it sheds a lot more light on the arc as a whole (I'm not finished it yet just up through chapter 7), particularly Keiichi's relationship with Satoko and why he was willing to go so far for her (in the Anime it always felt like a pretty sudden decision)...but I also thought I'd share, for those who don't know from the game and haven't seen the Manga, a very interesting scene in Tatarigoroshi-Hen that I'm very disappointed the Anime glossed over.

I've read things from game players too of course and it seems this arc was one of the worst for the Anime out of the sheer number of things the excluded (and personally so far, for me who hasn't seen Kai yet, Tatarigoroshi is my favorite arc), but one scene in particularly caught my attention as something that really shouldn't have been missed, where Keiichi, Tomitake and Takano meet up after Keiichi leads Tomitake to the shrine...

Starts here.

http://www.onemanga.com/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni_-_Tatarigoroshi/7/22/

Read that scene and then go back and watch this episode again, and see if you think of things a little differently; I know I did. :)