Higurashi Episode 13 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

kj1980

2006-06-27, 05:26

Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 13.

Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for RAWs.
Try to keep spoilers from the Game or Manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Game / Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.

Spoiler Tag Usage

Using Spoiler Tags is easy. Using this...

Don't forget to use the spoiler title

....will get you this...

Don't forget to use the spoiler title

ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni
Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) before you ask questions!!!

Feel free to utilize the info on the TIPS section (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31732) as a complement to this series.

Feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting.

I am designating Sushi-Y and Freakman to lead the discussion in the correct path without spoilers as they have played the game in advance. I put confidence in them that they will recognize a member has spilled the beans too far if any other members has begun to play the game.

SPOILERS FAR ADVANCED THAN THE CURRENT AIRED ANIME EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS INCLUDES THOSE IN SPOILER TAGS!!!. People tend to peek at spoiler tags; especially when they do not know such tag is meant for the episode, only to find it spilling the beans too far advanced in the game storyline.

kj1980

2006-06-27, 12:48

Ugh, judging from 2chan, the staff screwed up BIG TIME in showing the shock value for this, especially cutting out the interview scene in the epilogue. I'm afraid to watch this myself... anyhow, I guess we shall see how Himatsubushi goes.

Judging by 2chan (and my own reflection on reading the manga), the manga version seems to be 10 times better than the anime in capturing the tenseness from the original game. Studio DEEN, how could you screw this one up!?

Freakman

2006-06-27, 17:03

They took 5 eps, and they still had to skip the interview scene....
They could have skipped the Satoko flashback to put it in, or just skip the ending song, damn it.

Plus the daisaigai being on television lessened the impact of the whole Keiichi waking up only to find body bags and the army..... plus that radio program back in the truck.... and the interview.... rah.

Plus another thing : how exactly did Keiichi fall down the bridge, when it appears it's designed exactly to prevent that ?

Rika's scene was pretty well done IMO, but still >.>

Lots of messed up faces and proportions and skipped scenes add to the whole amateurish feeling.

Hanatori

2006-06-27, 18:18

Looks like it's a horrible ending to the chapter. >_<; I'm going to have to see for myself, then. Is it possible for anyone to explain the interview or what's been said that they skipped?

Nork22

2006-06-27, 21:00

Yes, whats so important about the interview? Any kind players will like to spoil it for us once episode 14 airs? :)

JarOfMayo

2006-06-27, 22:46

If its that important (the interview)... I suggest adding it as a "anime" TIPS for this episode (chapter). Be easier for people to reference it.

USCPharmacist

2006-06-28, 02:13

This episode is made of Musashi Gundo animation team and What the holy ghey fuck. The moral of the story? do not break the hand of a budha or you'll be fucked for life.

Sushi-Y

2006-06-28, 02:51

I'm not surprised, a little disappointed, but not surprised.

Like I mentioned in the ep12 thread, it's doubtful they would cover the disaster scene to begin with, so I wasn't exactly holding my breath for the epilogue interview either.

First of all, I would just like to say that they did do a good job with the bathroom scene (uwa, eroi ^^; ), as well as Keiichi's subsequent explosion of anger. Even the scene in front of the clinic was done nicely, since the emotions shown by Keiichi and Satoko were pretty much spot on. However, things sort of went downhills after that.

Personally, it would've been nice to see Keiichi confess everything to Satoko on the way to the shrine, like in the game, rather than waiting until after they have already arrived. It's true that Satoko's reaction to Keiichi's confession in the anime remained true to the game, but since they were already at the shrine in the anime, certain portrayals from the game were omitted, some of which carried quite a heavy impact:
In the game, after hearing Keiichi's confession, Satoko moved away from him and began to walk on her own, even though she was still very weak. When Satoko was climbing the steps to the shrine, her steps were wobbly, but when Keiichi ran up and tried to support her, Satoko simply shifted herself away from him. Soon, Satoko no longer even pays attention to Keiichi anymore, as if she was ignoring him on purpose.

Keiichi mentioned how much it hurts to see Satoko reject him like this. And for us players, we shared that pain as well, since we know that, regardless of good or bad, everything Keiichi did was for Satoko's sake. Even though a lot of Keiichi's actions were mistaken, we knew his heart and intentions were pure: He loved Satoko very much (enough to make him kill), and he just wanted to see her happy. And to see Satoko giving Keiichi the silent rejection really made my heart ache.
The anime also didn't get to portray the #1 most important thing about the Rika scene. I know it's probably a little too strong to show on TV, but I still would've liked to see some portrayals of it:
Rika's stomach was split wide open, and her organs, as well as intestines, were dragged out and splayed out in all directions.

In other words, she had been Watanagashi'ed.
(Although this is unrelated to the anime, I think all the game players will agree with me when I say that the "creaking door" sfx playing on repeat during this scene in the game was the scariest thing ever. :( Especially if you're reading it at 2am in the dark)

Another "odd" spot is those bandages on Keiichi's axe (although in the game, it was a hachet/cleaver like Rena's). In the game, it was mentioned that Keiichi used newspapers to wrap up the weapon so that it would be concealed from peoples' eyes. But the "bandages" here doesn't appear to have any concealment effects whatsoever: anyone can tell it's an axe, with or without them. ^^;

But personally, all of the above can be overlooked, even that solemn victims list (http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/4826/untitled624ve.jpg) and the final interview were all acceptable losses for me. However, what really hurted (for me) was the fact that they skipped out on the most important lines during the bridge scene:
When Satoko said she loved Keiichi. That really hurted.

And Keiichi's final words to Satoko:
".........I didn't do all of this so that you'd praise me. ... I only wanted for you to be happy. ...We're useless. ......If you're not laughing... then we're useless.... That's why, ......if I were to disappear now, .........then laugh for me. ...If my death can help you move on to a new life, .... then, ...laugh for me. ............Can you at least, ...promise me that.........?"

Those phrases alone would've saved this episode for me, *sigh*....
Overall though, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. They managed to get some sad, emotional scenes in the anime for the end, but it felt like too little, too late.

But if I were to pretend that I never played the game, then I probably would've really liked this episode. So maybe the anime-watchers will like this one.

========
Himatsubushi-hen is next. I wouldn't mind if they're going to finish it in 2 episodes. I think 2 episodes is plenty for this chapter anyway. There's really nothing important about it except a few revealing scenes (about Rika).

chounokoe

2006-06-28, 06:44

Himatsubushi-hen is next. I wouldn't mind if they're going to finish it in 2 episodes. I think 2 episodes is plenty for this chapter anyway. There's really nothing important about it except a few revealing scenes (about Rika).

Well at least they really seem to do just that. It's only 'Hinamizawa' and 'Kizashi' and then it's over.
I haven't played the games up till now, mostly because my Japanese isn't sufficient, but with the additional information through TIP's and manga etc. I get the feeling they are rushing some things the wrong way.

This episode there were some crucial elements missing I think.
Ok but sadly they can all be explained one way or the other, but I can't imagine anymore that the anime will end after Tsumihoroboshi, because that would mean that Meakashi and Tsumihoroboshi get 11 episodes in total.

Ok but back to episode 13.
What really annoyed me, was that Tatarigoroshi started to appear more and more disjointed to me, I think it was mostly due to the missing interior monologues of K1. They could have made the suspense much more strong that way, especially in this episode...but well most of the monologue scenes weren't in here to begin with (epilogue).
I really don't know if they left out the epilogue on purpose or if there was just not enough space >_>

Nork22

2006-06-28, 06:55

I really don't know if they left out the epilogue on purpose or if there was just not enough space >_>
Hope for a DVD extra?

chounokoe

2006-06-28, 07:02

Hope for a DVD extra?

Ok that would be great, but when was the last series which got whole extrascenes, I think they would even need a whole new episode for this one.
And I don't think the animation-studio is major enough to be able to pull off something like great extras >_>

We could only hope that Square-Enix earns enough money on Higurashi, so that they finance DVD's with bonus's XD

Flame-X

2006-06-28, 12:46

Holy Hell!!! Holy Hell!!!!!!!!!
Dang Ep 13!! Just Wow...

LostBlue

2006-06-28, 13:33

(Although this is unrelated to the anime, I think all the game players will agree with me when I say that the "creaking door" sfx playing on repeat during this scene in the game was the scariest thing ever. :( Especially if you're reading it at 2am in the dark)

Why is it always 2 AM when I finish a chapter? LOL
No, seriously, only Onigakushi & Himatsubushi didn't end at 2AM b/c they were shorter. Yea... the "chase" was depressing, freaky, and had me on the edge especially when they got to the bridge and especially b/c of the character build up and trend of the other games, I didn't know if I should trust this. And BLAM. *shakes head*　圭ちゃん、いつも報われないね。

As for the interview: NO~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kinda guess, since Takano's death wasn't specified, but I still had my hopes.
Personally, I found it to be one of the creepist moments in the game b/c this whole chapter threw off everything I thought I understood what was happening.

But even w/o the interview the pt of this chapter is put across, judging from the reactions of the last episode. The interview would have been icing, but animation-wise I do understand why they didn't do it. Personally, if I was going to do it, I would have cut the ending song and play the tape with the credits rolling the game style (black screen only). That would have been creepy.

I sure hope they keep the monologue for Meakashi. Cut the beginning, first part in 2 EPs, second part 2 EPs, and that final confrontation 1 EP. If anything, they need to do that taunting monologue just for that last confrontation. バーカー　ゲームに気付けよ

Redbeard

2006-06-28, 14:04

:twitch:

Well, I never saw that ending coming in a million years. My theory had been almost equally messed up, but still nothing close at all to this. All in all a great episode. I can only imagine though, if even half of things Sushi-Y mentioned were in it just how much stronger it would have been; especially those last lines of the bridge scene. I dunno how I would have reacted if I heard that specifically. Probably would have missed it anyways as my Japanese was only good enough to understand all but a couple of the most important scenes completely. After seeing that though, I really regret not getting to have an answer arc for this chapter in the anime now.

Morgri

2006-06-29, 09:13

After watching this episode i'm fully conviced that:

A. Keiichi is not able to live past a certain day (which could be incorrect becuase I don't know the exact days that he has died and I don't know if he died in arc 2). B. Keiichi causes somekind of phenomena in where, after he dies, time is reset and he lives again giving him a chance to live past that certain day. C. He can't remember that he has died in past arcs, but I bet he will start to remember at some point (perhaps in answer arcs?). D. One of the characters knows Keiichi's fate (suspicious of Rika because of her words in arc 2 "I'll protect you as best I can" [btw, that is summary, to see the exact words watch the episode 7?], but I'm probably way out of line here since she has also died in 2 arcs. E. Takano is fishy... she dies but lives, i'm gonna keep watching her. F. Himanizawa is cursed. G. Himinazawa has a culprit.

Aww, to many thoeries that are probably crappy at best, but that I think are possible =p. Hundreds of theories, yet I still feel I haven't solved anything, this show is taking me for some wild ride.

nubby

2006-06-29, 17:39

so how did keiichi fall off the bridge again? lol

TougeSil80

2006-06-30, 02:04

It was a good ep. I didn't play the game, so I don't really know what I'm missing. But what's so important about this interview that they omitted? Can someone post it or pm me. Thanks.

kj1980

2006-06-30, 09:30

The epilogues and the interview that the anime cut out are all written in the TIPS section...except they are currently hidden out until the "fansubs" are released (apparently, someone saw them and complained that it was too spoilerish). So, I guess the answer to your questions about these interviews to be translated would be: it'll be on the TIPS section as soon as the "fansub" is released.

chrno_the_sinner

2006-06-30, 18:12

Wow. For what it skipped out, this was a great episode.

I felt absolutely horrible about Satoko. That girl can't get any breaks. Her breakdown at the bridge tugged at my heart a little. The same goes for Rika's death.

I think the bridge was designed a little too modern. It makes the whole "push off a bridge thing a little hard to swallow. And I suppose Satoko is gifted with superhuman strength.

Also, how much of a moron can Keiichi be. I understand he was shocked beyond belief, but why would you pick up an axe after it fell into a pool of your friend's blood? And on top of that, he chased after a friend while holding said bloody axe. It's worse then the main character of North by Northwest (the main character pulls a knife out of a dead man in front of a crowd of people).

Even so, a solid episode, even though the Gas disaster seemed to be not as terrible as it actually was.

9 out of 10

EDIT: By the way, the fansubs are out now. Please post the extra "Tips".

Deku Kirby

2006-06-30, 20:03

So, I was rewatching the episode, and...

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/5434/vlcsnap4265896zv.th.png (http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap4265896zv.png)

Doesn't that boy look at little too much like Keiichi? It's probably just some random brat and I'm looking into it too much, since it's impossible for him to be there, but just in case...

Datj

2006-06-30, 20:12

It seems to me that the ep was almost hastily put together.

It wasnt as polished as the other arc's endings. In fact this entire arc really hasnt been to the quality of suspence as the others.

I dont know if the game was like that, since i havent played it 'yet'. But if anyone can give me a heads up if im right..that this was a "slow"(and i use that word lightly) arc.

Edit: You know Deku Kirby .......i thought i was the only one that would notice that. *ominous music plays*

BakaOnna

2006-06-30, 20:12

...
...
...

I have no idea what to give this episode. I don't even know what to think about it. But wow, just WOW. Then ending was just... WEIRD! But that's not saying much considering the last 2 arc endings. I'll have to come back to figure out what I'll give this episode. Some of the facial distortions were a bit... to much... But overall, another great ending for an arc. I also find it kind of funny and ironic how:
the time Keiichi doesn't die, everyone else does... Or maybe there's a reason for that? And poor Rika-chan! >.<
Well, I'll come back and think of some theories after I get over the overall shock of the episode.

Matrim

2006-06-30, 20:57

I loved the suspence in this episode but some things in it were really messed up, alas. And I am again confused as hell.

I just knew we weren't going to get much info whether Satoko's uncle was alive. Oishi missing? Irie dead? And then Rika? Never saw this one coming. It seemed Rika had been killed not long before Keiichi saw her body. Of course that begs the question why was she killed at all. One explanation woudl be that Satoko was right and Keiichi actually murdered Rika.
The ending? Shocking to say the least. Everyone in the village died? The supernatural explanation just got a great boost.
How the hell Keiichi fell off the bridge? The way Satoko pushed him he should have passed right through the ropes which is kind of impossible.
I can't think of any theories right now but watching this at 4 AM in the morning was quite thrilling, indeed, weird animation or no weird animation.

orion

2006-06-30, 21:46

Referring to the TIPS on 6/26....

Do we know if Rika died before Dr. Irie in the game?

Also..

Do we know in the game where Kei was found? The TV report didn't say that he was found in the river and he looked dry imo.

aliensporebomb

2006-06-30, 22:13

Extremely weird and bizzarre. I understand there was more explanation
in the game apparently for those who have played it but still you get the
feeling that nobody in this game can catch a break. At all. Good grief.

Can't wait for the next two arcs. This will be the all-time mess with
your head series for sure.

frad113

2006-06-30, 22:14

Is it safe to assume that the gentleman found in the bag in the beginning of this chapter was Satoko's uncle?

LostBlue

2006-06-30, 22:55

No. Unlike the past two arcs that happen in real time. The person in the bag is Rina (Ritsuko) who is... :D

Anywho, See post 51 in the TIPS thread for details:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=580005&postcount=51

Also when KJ-san unlocks them, I would see three post in the TIPS thread that retain to this EP. They're not TIPS perse but 2 epilogues and the credits to this chapter. It'll mess with your head more XD

MetaFire

2006-06-30, 23:09

Mmm, I honestly didn't like this episode at all. Too many irrational things on Keiichi's part that had me going "Oh geez" throughout.

-Running around with a half-naked girl on your back around town when you could've at least put some of her own clothes on her.
-Going crazy and tearing up one of your friend's house.
-Running around with an axe and then dropping it in a pool of blood only to be picked up again? (Come on now. Worst plot setup ever).
-Then there was the whole getting pushed off the bridge that you shouldn't have been pushed off of.
-And the thing I totally didn't like was... Keiichi didn't die. If he did, I might've liked it a bit better.
-Oh, and no Rena.

BakaOnna

2006-06-30, 23:18

Meh, I decided to give the ep. a 9 since I didn't like it as much as the last two endings. Besides, eps. 11 and 12 are the 10's in this arc, for me at least.

Anyway, here's something I found interesting after reading the TIP.
Could one of the reasons the villagers all died was because Rika died so there was no one who could protect Hinamizawa? Now I have to ask, who killed Rika and why? She was barely in this arc. She was the last person I expected to die in this arc. Though, it makes me wonder if she messed up at the Wataganashi festival this time like she did in the last arc.

With this, I think there is something definitely wrong with Hinamizawa and the people who live there.

Shuin4

2006-07-01, 00:28

The anime also didn't get to portray the #1 most important thing about the Rika scene. I know it's probably a little too strong to show on TV, but I still would've liked to see some portrayals of it:
Rika's stomach was split wide open, and her organs, as well as intestines, were dragged out and splayed out in all directions.

In other words, she had been Watanagashi'ed.

That'll probably be in the DVD. The scene looked like it was censored like Elfen Lied was(extremely dark shadows blocking out the grossness)

chrno_the_sinner

2006-07-01, 01:51

Ummm..... that interview was.... very creepy, though I can see why it wasn't included.

Someone had to have pulled K1 out of the river, because it makes no sense otherwise. Either he was once again delusional (I mean, look at the bridge) or he was pulled out. My money would be placed on the fact that Takano faked her death and pulled him out somehow.

Also..... was there more clarity to the "your eyes are the same as the kantoku" line or was that just as ambiguous in Japanese? I'm still not sold on the fact that Irie is a good guy, especially after seeing him near the van in Onikakushi-Hen. Maybe he faked it too.... with the help of the other doctor. The other one was suspicious too. For all we know, he could've taken a Juliet-like drug that only gave the appearance of death. Then again, it might only be coincidence again. But I still think the Kantoku is suspicious.

The Rika scene looked like it got a bit of censorship. Here's hoping for a dvd release uncut.

Darkside

2006-07-01, 01:53

lol this ending was rather unexpected. I didn't like it as much as the other endings and I can't seem to find any logical explanation behind everything other then Keiichi = god? lol

also wth were Rena, Mion, and Shion >.< They made like one appearance each in this arc.

Things won't go smoothly when he wakes up and hears that everyone did die xD, he's going to flip.

Shuin4

2006-07-01, 02:59

Wow, now I know why you guys were so mad they didn't include the interview. Though I can see why they wouldn't include it, having some people listen to an old tape for 10 minutes would've been pretty boring.

But they could still make it a DVD extra, not a fully animated scene, but just the recording. I remember they had 15 minute audio segments on the Midori Days DVD, so it's not entirely impossible.

Wacky

2006-07-01, 03:00

Maybe it wasn't as well done as it could have been, but still an amazing episode just based on what happened.

That epilogue that kj1980 posted (thanks for that btw) was also very nice, too bad it wasn't in the anime.

rogueblade

2006-07-01, 04:50

I don't see why some people are fussing over this episode, to be honest.
Just watched it, and i thought it was stellar. Of course, i haven't read the manga (i'd LOVE it if it came out in english - anyone know any plans for that to happen?), or played the game, but as an anime - only watcher, that was awesome.
Of course there were dodgey bits, but mainly animation related - i had to cringe at some shots of Keiichi. Also
the fact that we never learnt what happened to Satoko's uncle
quite annoyed me.
However, for the majority of the episode, it really did tug at the heart strings for me, and twist everything a little more, just to make it a little more confusing for the answer arcs.
I still think the watangashi-hen arc ending was the best of the lot, but this one is really pushing it. It was extremely fast paced, extremely NSFW (only realised that when my parents were in the room when i was watching it ¬_¬; ), and extremely emotional - you could really feel Keiichi's pain and sorrow, and Satoko's bewilderment at the situation.
I'm really loving this series so far, and hope that the next chapter is just as good! Just with better animation....

hoon

2006-07-01, 05:37

I really have to stop watching this anime so late at night.. The interviews in the TIPs thread was so eerie..

It definitely seems like there is some kind of supernatural phonemena going on in this anime. However, I'm hoping there is a logical explanation to all of this. This arc + the interviews is making me want to give up and go with the supernatural theory.. I can't wait until the answer arcs.

RMgX

2006-07-01, 06:36

Well this ep certainly seems to point towards a supernatural influence.
Even if we go by supernatural influence who could have killed Rika and why. She must have been killed pretty recently since the blood was still liquid.
If we go with the supernatural theory could it be something broke out from inside of her ( like some inner demon or similar? )
Also K1 would need some sort of divine protection if he was to survive the gas as described in the HINTS.

I think it would be better if there was a non supernatural explanation however.
The people killed or suicided could be one of the Mion/Shion duo ( whoever is the unstable one from arc 2 ) going on a coverup rampage. For instace killing Irie for being in on druging the photographer, Rika might be in the know of something she shouldn't as well, of course it could be M/S that killed Irie and someone else that killed Rika.
In this ep there is supposedly gas coming from the marsh, this ep also differsfrom the others in that there was quite a bit of digging going on in that area.
I wonder what happened to Oishi, since it seemed he disappeared could he have disappeared in the marsh during investigation? Could it be that he operated some sort of heavier machinery there searching for the body and helped open a hole to the gases ( seems a bit farfetched since I'd guess you would have to use more force. It could be he was present in the marsh however and was one of the first victims of the gas ( perhaps there was a small burst some time before the large amount came out ) and disappeared into the marsh, could that drainage pipe from episode 12 be some sort of clue, it would be unlikely though that it was connected to some underground reservoir of poison gas?
As for K1 surviving the gas we don't really know how far the river took K1, perhaps the most logical explanation is that the river took him far enough away from the gas so he wasn't poisoned severely enough to die.
I wonder what happened to Satoko she is reported missing.
Rika is said to have died in arc 2 as well without there being any poisoning of the village so I doubt her death has anything to do with that.

Shiroth

2006-07-01, 07:12

Episode 13 just gives you even more wtf's.

This'll be the main chapter for me that'll be explained. In a way, in the end it makes sense about what happened.. its just, wtf. ^^;

Ah well, one chapter down without a Keiichi death.. or maybe he'll die when its being explained, who knows.

Nork22

2006-07-01, 09:43

OK, now that I've seen this episode (gave it a 7 because it did felt rushed) and read the TIPS, I'm starting to believe that there might be something supernatural at work here. Of course it doesn't help since I'm playing Project Zero (that's Fatal Frame to the US gamers) 2 and 3 and the parallels at work here is a bit freaky.

DrakeNavarone

2006-07-01, 10:09

I gave it a 6. I can usuallly look over the blemishes in the animation cuz I'm really here for the plot, so that didn't even factor in on my grade. Originally, I was planning on giving it a 1 or a 2 because it wasn't really that good at all, imo... most disappointing episode yet (but maybe it didn't help that the game players were hyping this arc and the animation studio really dropped the ball here...)

In the end, I gave it a 6, mostly because I know a lot of important things happened, and I get a feeling once I watch it again a few more times, it'll start to grow on me (i hope).

Menshi

2006-07-01, 11:55

Shizen

2006-07-01, 12:33

I'm sort of confused by the intro to episode 9 what did it have to do with this chapter. We never found out any info on the dead body or who it was did we. Is this sort of like Rika's death intro to chapter 2 ~ where the intro ties in to a future chapter?

Read the TIPs for episode 9 if you haven't already.
Don't think too deep about the corpse itself, the question is what happened because of that corpse.

Amaranthine

2006-07-01, 12:37

This episode was... a bit of a disappointment, to be honest. The ending was extremely weird and confusing, yeah, but it didn't particularly shock me. My response to it was more like: "Oh. That's weird." And then I felt kind of disappointed, like I said. :/ It sounds better in the descriptions people have given of the game, but that's the game, and this is the anime. I suppose there's not much point in comparing them like that.

Also, I had to curse Keiichi's stupidity. Why oh why did he have to wave the axe around, drop it in Rika's blood, and then pick it back up again. >_< I know, I know, he was shocked... and had been acting crazy anyway... but still. He really brings it on himself most of the time. As much as I may be annoyed at him though, I consider that a good thing. If I can get involved enough to think about the characters like that and get frustrated at their actions, they're good characters.

It was a relatively good episode I guess, it got me sad for Satoko and all, and completely shook up my theories. It was just missing something. I might be expecting too much, what with the build up from the game players, and how great the rest of the series has been. I felt this episode wasn't as good as it could have been... or even, dare I say, as it should have been. The rest has been excellent, why drop the standard now of all times?

Maybe I'm feeling especially critical today... but I was expecting more. Possibly I'll think better of it after a rewatch.

Sinestra

2006-07-01, 13:20

A very weird ending indeed there were still a lot of unanswred questions and the ending kind of took me for a loop. There 2 parts that are just stuck in mind and i think they were very important parts of this episode

When Keiichi sees all the birds and goes running towards the shrine and Rikas bloody necked body is there i did not see that coming.
http://www.badongo.com/pic/228398

Then To watch as Satako throws Keiichi off a bridge and wishes for him to die was shocking that crazed look in her eye was just insain and then to learn that everyone but Keiichi in the town died i pretty much was WTF
http://www.badongo.com/pic/228395

Blue_Mercy

2006-07-01, 16:45

I kind of wish this series of episodes had been done first since I definitely would have voted for something supernatural being at work instead of an individual. Keiichi's sanity seemed to be slipping away after Takano asked him if he buried the body properly.

Amaranthine

2006-07-01, 16:56

I kind of wish this series of episodes had been done first since I definitely would have voted for something supernatural being at work instead of an individual.

I'm sure that's exactly why they are in this order... :p

I was so convinced that it was nothing supernatural, and I thought I could figure out a rational reason for it all. Now I don't know what to think. ~_~

Arimfe

2006-07-01, 17:10

The episode was okay but I felt there was a lot of loose ends. The funny thing is that overall I felt most sorry Rika. Her little "miiii" constantly haunted me to feel sad for her after I found out she was killed...(And Rena too of course:sad: )
-Oh, and no Rena.
*me agrees*
I was looking forward to find out if Rena had something going on with the manager or not, after all she was so concerned about Keiichi making it to the clinic. Oh well maybe that scene was just to show more of Rena's...erhm inquisitive nature hmm. I didn't see any point in it, since they were so tight with the episode schedules and all, but more Rena moeness is always a good thing.:eyespin:

Guido

2006-07-01, 22:59

For the very end of the episode.

What really happened to the TV?

Why it turned off suddenly?

Darklightz

2006-07-01, 22:59

The more I watched this episode the more I think it was mostly Keichii's delusion.

When Keichii finds Rika's body,from the blood splatter it seems she was killed getting hit by a hard object repeatedly like say...an axe.Then Keichii drops the axe on the blood and picks it up again.Maybe it was his mind trying to reason out for him that Rika was dead and he held an axe covered in her blood,trying to reason out that it wasn't his fault when he did in fact slaughter her

Then he gets pushed into the river.Looking back at the bridge,more precisely at the steel wires,it's impossible Satoko could have pushed Keichii over that,and there's no way Keichii could have squeezed through that.

There's just one thing that I don't understand at all,why did everyone except Keichii die?Natural disaster or did Oyashira-sama decided to kill everyone?

SnowfairyX

2006-07-02, 01:14

My immediate reaction to this episode was slight disappointment, probably just like a few of the other posters on this thread. I've never played the game or read the manga (can't read japanese) but before I watched the episode, I skimmed a few comments of people who've played the game and/or read the manga expressing their disappointment over how many things were left out. Still, I was excited to see the episode but I guess because I dwelled on the fact that the episode might feel incomplete that it lead to my initial disappointment. I guess the reason I was a bit disappointed at first was probably because the ending was a bit more subtle than the last two arcs and didn't exactly raise my blood pressure like I expected it to :p, although that scene involving Rika's corpse did the job quite well :heh:. I also would have liked to have seen some more of Rena (current favorite character) and Mion as well, but I guess they had their turn in the last two arcs :). I gave the episode another watch though, almost immediately afterwards trying to pore over details and other stuff. After I let my thoughts settle a bit about the episode, I thought it was quite an appropriate end to the arc and ended up rating it as 'excellent.' Basing solely on the anime itself and ignoring all the TIPs and stuff from the game, I thought the ending to this arc did it's job well enough in conveying the tragic results. Overall, I thought this arc was better than the 2nd arc, although probably not as good as the first. This arc was defintely pretty depressing but not really in a way where the show was trying to force emotions out or anything. That last episode, I definitely had to think about a bit before it kind of got to me :upset:. I can't wait to see the next arc of this most fascinating series. This is the first time I've ever wanted to follow an unlicensed anime series all the way through to the end. I joined this forum just because of the excellent discussion going on here for Higurashi although I'll probably still lurk here mostly anyway ;).

Eric the Grey

2006-07-02, 06:10

Well, I liked the episode. I didn't think it felt rushed at all.

I do have to say this about Keichii: If it wasn't for bad luck, he'd have no luck at all. :heh:

:cool: Eric the Grey

ferthepoet

2006-07-02, 12:42

Varion

2006-07-02, 12:48

Greetings,

Been watching and loving the series since the beggining but haven't posted, I'm asking cuz I wonder why no one has mentioned this yet, did you notice the change on the lyrics of the end song, do you think there's any meaning to that?

Yeah, the official lyrics have been released and the fansubs have changed to match this. Is that what you meant?

Watched the last 3 episodes of this arc all in a row and I loved it. Watanagashi didn't feel as powerful as Onikakushi to me but this arc more than made up for it :) Shame about all the stuff they missed out though, wish reading the sound novel first was a possibility. Oh well...

Sinestra

2006-07-02, 12:59

Killer Loli

2006-07-02, 15:31

Read the TIPs for episode 9 if you haven't already.
Don't think too deep about the corpse itself, the question is what happened because of that corpse.

My first impression of the corpse in ep 9 was that it was satoko and since i didnt see this really addressed in the rest of the chapter my impression remains with satoko. (i could b wrong tell me if i am)

Also the gas line found in episode 12, could it have actually been a vent for volcanic gas and thus keichi and the police may have accidentally damaged it when digging and caused the whole disaster that killed everyone (except keichi).

I guess it doesn't matter now whether keichi killed satoko's uncle cuz he would have been killed by the poison gas later on anyway, but maybe keichi really didn't do it and was delusional from breating in volcanic gas that may have escaped before the big one at the end of ep 13.

Li Jianliang

2006-07-02, 15:55

LordAshram

2006-07-02, 16:24

My first impression of the corpse in ep 9 was that it was satoko and since i didnt see this really addressed in the rest of the chapter my impression remains with satoko. (i could b wrong tell me if i am)

Also the gas line found in episode 12, could it have actually been a vent for volcanic gas and thus keichi and the police may have accidentally damaged it when digging and caused the whole disaster that killed everyone (except keichi).

I guess it doesn't matter now whether keichi killed satoko's uncle cuz he would have been killed by the poison gas later on anyway, but maybe keichi really didn't do it and was delusional from breating in volcanic gas that may have escaped before the big one at the end of ep 13.

You're wrong on the corpse because it's been said a number of times before that it took place when it was shown, at the beginning of the arc, not the end... And the TIPS even gave it's identity: Ritsuko Rina, Teppei's mistress.

Sushi-Y

2006-07-02, 17:37

Just to make a few things clear:

- First of all, read my post here for the missing details:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=603590&postcount=8

- The pipe that Oishi's men dug up at the Teppei "grave site" was an old water pipe, not a gas pipe.

- Keiichi didn't swing an axe around and drop it in Rika's blood in the game. However, when Satoko heard Keiichi's scream and ran up (still in towels, unlike the anime, which managed to get her changed in seconds ^^; ) and saw Rika's corpse + Keiichi's hatchet/cleaver (which was what he was carrying in the game, not an axe), she still made the connection that Keiichi killed Rika anyway.

- Yes, it seemed very unreasonable that Satoko would be able to push Keiichi off the bridge, considering that the railings and wires around them were specifically designed to prevent that from happening. But that's simply a design flaw specific to the anime. The fact is, Satoko pushed Keiichi off the bridge, period.

- The Great Hinamizawa Disaster DID happen. In the game, Keiichi woke up on a broken sofa (or something) that managed to break his fall. And we got to follow him wandering around blindly in the lifeless town. Finally, he arrived at school and noticed hundreds of bags lying on the ground (body bags). And just when he was trying to get a grip on what's going on, he was discovered by a bunch of self-defense force soldiers wearing chem suits. They took him to the clinic, and that's when he learned the truth about the gas disaster from the soldier's radios. After that, Keiichi passed out.

- The TV thing was simply the anime's method of "covering" the disaster, that's not how it was covered in the game, Therefore, you don't have to worry about "the authenticy of the report" or "what went wrong with the TV".

- Check the TIPs thread for the police report on the disaster in the epilogue, as well as the secret interview between Keiichi and a reporter.

ChainLegacy

2006-07-02, 18:01

I am somehow satisfied with the fact that everyone died... Honestly, I think the crazy people in that town are better off dead, and poor Keiichi should escape it all. Though I doubt that is how he would view it, lol

Ayu-ayu

2006-07-02, 19:56

Some questions I'm pondering lately:

1) The Hinamizawa incident: is it possible this happened in the prior two timelines but the story ended short of it happening those times? What were the dates of the end of the last two timelines in respect to when the event occured?

2) The TIPS about Rika is particularly interesting as each of these three arcs seemed focused on one each of the other three girls: Onikakushi seemed Rena-centric, Watanagashi was Mion-centric, and Tatarigoroshi was Satoko-centric. Is the next 2-episode arc Rika-centric, perhaps? Her role as a miko at the Oyashiro shrine as well as this TIP's revalations puts her in a spirtually significant role, especially IF something supernatural IS occuring, and her last two death-depictions were particularly notable for their lack of explanation. Plus her one big scene in Watanagashi about the trapped cat in the shrine seems to indicate that she is playing some sort of active caring role. The TIPS seem to indicate that Rika is a possible incarnation of Oyashiro...but I don't sense anything malevolent about her character, if anything, quite the opposite. The absense of focus on her character so far is making me suspicious as to what she is all about.

3) Someone, I think it was Sushi-Y, made a comment about the viewer coming to percieve Hinamizawa ITSELF acting as an entity somehow. This fascinates me in relation to Oyashiro as Shintoism often treats places as deities with their own wills (and this has been portrayed in a few more unusual anime). If Oyashiro is in fact the kami of Hinamizawa, then perhaps it is key to view Hinamizawa as a living and sentient organism, perhaps with its own "immune system" for dealing with parts of it that have turned "sick". But then, why would it kill off the whole community and spare Keiichi?

4) The gassing seems really fishy to me in some other ways, particularly in the media blackout and no-fly zone. Is what happened really what is being reported? Could this be a cover-up of an act of genocide performed by someone against the burakku, perhaps as a way to clear the path for reinstating the dam construction order?

5) The footsteps: Keichi's hearing them again, and this is the second time that Keichi seems to have lost himself to the madness (which to me explains his increasingly irrational behavior). They were only mentioned in the TIPS each time and not in the anime (except maybe when Keichi was on the phone with Ooishi before his first death, where he was afraid to turn around), making them conspicuously absent. Are these echoes of himself in a parallel timeline, perhaps the Answer arcs ahead? Or maybe a symptom of whatever is influencing his pyschological state? Or is it Oyashiro after all?

6) while I'm skeptical about the doppelganger thing, it is clear across the arcs that somehow someone is appearing in place of certain people. The third Sonozaki in the second arc, the stuff with Takano, Satoko's uncle, and Keiichi at the festival in the last arc. Could this all be one entity (Oyashiro?) doing this each time, and also the same responsible for the footsteps?

Gah, none of this really seems to add up cohesively. I can't wait for the next arcs. :)

Deathkillz

2006-07-02, 20:05

omg this is the strangest eps so far...k1 flipping out i actually think that hes been posessed by satoshi...also does it mean that k1 has the power to kill anyone just wishing for it? coincidence yh if 1 thing happened but it happening 3 times and the last time taking the whole town with him...something supernatural is at hand definatly...he is soo stupid...why the hell did he start hacking away at the crows -___- and the ending where the TV turns off...that just spooked me out >.<
im stupid so i still dnt get wht happened to satoko's uncle...hes was killed by k1 right? then wheres his body? i think that the fact that satoko still says that his uncle is alive the night after the murder was a cover up...

TougeSil80

2006-07-02, 20:23

ApathyEcstasy

2006-07-03, 01:16

i only just realized right now that this show reminds me so much of the tv show "lost" in the sense that nothing is answered without revealing more questions =_=

Killer Loli

2006-07-03, 08:14

You know what would be hilarious? If the scooter and baseball bat that Keiichi threw into the Onigafuchi Swamp were the last straws for the already-unstable swamp bottom... Did Keiichi unintentionally trigger the volcanic gas eruption? :D
i only just realized right now that this show reminds me so much of the tv show "lost" in the sense that nothing is answered without revealing more questions =_=

LOL! indeed

Serenity85

2006-07-03, 13:48

I thought the ep. was ok, and like most ppl i got the same WTF? response after watching it. So now on to my theory.

The one thing i noticed after watching each arc, is that events past and present are in fact different. Up untill this last ep I thought this to be true until now. When Satoko tells K1 a little about her past we find out that she went into the shrine that K1 goes into in arc 2 and in an attempt to get out she breaks the statues hand hense why shes cursed. This got me thinking about ep. 6 so I rewatched it and to my shock the staues hand is also broken. This finally connects 2 arcs together and prob the first we never see set statue. It could simply be that Satoko broke the hand in at least 2 of the arcs but that in my mind doesn't follow the way the arcs had appeared to be laid out. Maybe i'm going to far of the limp in thinking theres meaning in this but I need to rewatch all eps again for more detail.

When we learn of Satoko's past we see a flashback of children playing one of which looks very much like K1. Explenation 1. K1 use to live in Hinamizawa. This theory is a little far fetched and relies heavily on this arc. K first we find out from Ooshi, Takana, and Tomikue the he is an heir to a large estate and that he and his family are famous in the village, as well Takano knows him. It is possible that his family lived in the village before his dad made it big and they moved. We also know K1's childhood prob after they moved, similar to the girls, was hard. The flashbacks indicate that he was to smart for normal classes and when he took advance, where he succeded he had no friends cause they disliked the fact he was young and smarter then them, hense why they moved back to the one place where they were all happy Hinamizawa. He could simply have forgotten all of his past because it was to hard for him to remember. Explenation 2. Its Satoshi. More likely but doesn't make sense or at least at moment it doesn't. We know Satoshi looks like K1 but from what we say he had blonde hair. He could have dyed his hair when he was young but why? I have a third one but its so out there that its hard to think it true (however this anime is way out there so who knows :heh: ) Maybe I've read to far into a single scene but the first explenation would explain how K1 is tied to the girls and the village

Hanatori

2006-07-03, 20:05

Did anyone notice that Keiichi was carrying Satoko on top of the hatchet? Or was that just me? o_o

I voted this episode (might as well vote this chapter) a 6. It was average, if not mediocre in every way. Animation was funky, Hoshi's voicing was off and unbearable, plot was eh. I guess it's still a 6 because people died. >_>;

I read the TIPS section afterwards and I have to say, they cut out a great part.

I<3killerloli's

2006-07-05, 08:40

Is the next 2-episode arc Rika-centric, perhaps? Her role as a miko at the Oyashiro shrine as well as this TIP's revalations puts her in a spirtually significant role, especially IF something supernatural IS occuring, and her last two death-depictions were particularly notable for their lack of explanation. Plus her one big scene in Watanagashi about the trapped cat in the shrine seems to indicate that she is playing some sort of active caring role. The TIPS seem to indicate that Rika is a possible incarnation of Oyashiro...but I don't sense anything malevolent about her character, if anything, quite the opposite. The absense of focus on her character so far is making me suspicious as to what she is all about.

^ This seems to be hinted at in the title screen when she rips off the Kitsune mask. For those who don't know Japanese folklore, Kitsune/Foxs are regarded as deceitful tricking spirts who can take the shape of humans but retain supernatural elements. When Rika pulls off the mask It's almost like she's saying "I was the true puppet master pulling the strings". She may, in fact, be killer loli alpha. Besides, everytime the series shifts over to a new "killer loli main villain", we least suspect them to go crazy. Rena seems cute and innocent at first/ She's chasing K1with a butcher knife, Mion seems sexy and fun / she's nailing his hands to a concret slab before she drinks his blood 0 - o , Satoko seems victimized and innocuos/ she's barfing all over the room and pushing K1 off a bridge. So...with Rika being the ultra cute and innocent of all of them, it will be the most shocking to see her go all "intestine scopping" or whatever she plans.

BTW, on a Mothman Prophecy kind of note:

K1 takes a catatonic Satoko out of the tub as she counts higher and higher.
"What number were you planning on counting to?" he asks.
"1,000"

At the very end of the episode, we hear from the newscaster:
"The estimated death toll in Hinamizawa is 1,000."

Need I say more?

Dracil

2006-07-05, 11:15

K1 takes a catatonic Satoko out of the tub as she counts higher and higher.
"What number were you planning on counting to?" he asks.
"1,000"

At the very end of the episode, we hear from the newscaster:
"The estimated death toll in Hinamizawa is 1,000."

Need I say more?
I don't think that's the right number. Will double-check when I get back.

monir

2006-07-05, 11:23

LordAshram

2006-07-05, 11:24

She was counting to 10,000, not 1,000. That and the game says the toll is 1200 and rising anyway.

rocket

2006-07-07, 02:48

Some questions I'm pondering lately:

2) The TIPS about Rika is particularly interesting as each of these three arcs seemed focused on one each of the other three girls: Onikakushi seemed Rena-centric, Watanagashi was Mion-centric, and Tatarigoroshi was Satoko-centric. Is the next 2-episode arc Rika-centric, perhaps? Her role as a miko at the Oyashiro shrine as well as this TIP's revalations puts her in a spirtually significant role, especially IF something supernatural IS occuring, and her last two death-depictions were particularly notable for their lack of explanation. Plus her one big scene in Watanagashi about the trapped cat in the shrine seems to indicate that she is playing some sort of active caring role. The TIPS seem to indicate that Rika is a possible incarnation of Oyashiro...but I don't sense anything malevolent about her character, if anything, quite the opposite. The absense of focus on her character so far is making me suspicious as to what she is all about.

I don't know that we should read too much into the progression.

I think the original "game" was built on the concients of normal visual novels, where there are different paths (like the original Higarushi of this anime's chapters), which invariably focus on different girls (there fore we'll get a chapter each of Rena, Mion, Satako, and Rika).

This is the meta structure of the anime, it's like watching someone play through a normal visual novel in sequence, unlocking more and more each time. Now maybe that repeating structure is somehow also 'explained' in the story (I hope, to make it truely and satisfyingly postmodernish and all clever and such), but I think the structure was probally inspired by the original medium, not the other way around...

Anyways, in a normal game you have the illusion of being able to 'choose' any of the girls to lavish your affection on (regardless of who is the 'main girl') and each of them will end up with enough story and character development to reward your time. Maybe I could buy Rena being the "Main girl" but certainly not Rika, any anyhow we know Mion is into it up to her ears.

I think it's more likely we'll see all the girls equally enmeshed, or simply equally likely to get sucked into the spirral of murder.

Now... sleep for me. ^_^

roanhammer

2006-07-07, 03:50

...I didn't even think Hinamizawa's population was more than 1000...

LostBlue

2006-07-07, 10:32

Just FYI
Himatsubushi is Rika-centric but it's an sidestory and does not take place in 1983 (when K1 moves to town) but a year before the dam project was thrown out by the government. It's a short story.

Also Hinamizawa area population is ~2,000.

The game probably really shouldn't be called a game. Higurashi isn't a Visual Novel Dating Sim (not by any means AT ALL). As said many times on this forum it's a Novel in a game format. Sound Novels aren't concentrated on the Visual and gameplay as much as the text and bg sounds (which are great in the later half... that piano is <3 ). There's no choices you just read through the entire scenario and it is presented the same way the anime has done chronologically (although the skipped a lot of stuff). You as a player have no decision on the flow of the story. The "game play" is the same as the anime: Go figure out the mystery, that's all (although there are a few quirky omake games unrelated to the story).

LordKickass

2006-07-08, 01:27

I love how each chapters end seems to lead to a different conclusion as to what's really going on in Hinamizawa.

First arc leads you to believe that the Government or some outside group (the men in the white van) are the ones responsible for everything. Everything points to some kind of conspiracy.

The second arc leads you to believe in human influence as the perpatrator. The Yakuza and the sonozaki family are the ones pulling all the strings.

The third arc leads you to believe in the supernatural aspect of the mystery. Keiichi's so called "divine power" and the curse of oyashiro-sama were the most likely suspects in this arc.

It's so hard to come up with a possible conclusion when they lead you in so many different directions but that's the fun part :D

Cnile

2006-07-10, 03:13

remember in the beginiing of episode 5 where Rika was stabbing herself? think that has to do with Rika's death in episode 13?

Nork22

2006-07-10, 03:20

remember in the beginiing of episode 5 where Rika was stabbing herself? think that has to do with Rika's death in episode 13?
All evidence points to NO.In this episode's hints from the game players, she had her entrails ripped out
But one thing that is certain, Rika must have messed up in the Watanagishi festival and she is being punished for it.

Hunter Nin.

2006-07-26, 14:34

Hmm I only just got up to this episode and it might have been the final nail in the coffin for me... I'd been slowly put off this series as everyone is just completely psycho and I really find the supernatural elements to the story unsatisfactory. I mean all the events can either be down to some kind of mental problem or the supernatural; how can you solve a mystery like that? Nearly everyone in the series is as fucked up as the other and they lost the shock value of those schizo outbursts long ago. I really wish I picked up the game instead, do you think it's worth carrying on with the series (considering that so much isn't included in the anime are we even supposed to be able to come to a conclusion from it)? The first to fourth episodes I really enjoyed and I think they would have been fine by themselves if they just added in all the important details from other chapters (eg. Shion and history of the village) then gave us a conclusion, I don't get why we need to see all these alternate routes. Also, out of all of the chapters is any considered to be the one true route which actually happened or are they all just possibilities - or do they all happen? As in the characters are forced to live through the festival over and over?