View Full Version : The Total Series Rating of Haruhi Suzumiya
Catgirls
2006-07-05, 20:14
This poll is for you to give the entire series an over all numerical rating (from 1 to 10). http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Mousefinger/Misc/biggrinlove.gif
Now before you simply pop off and give it the first rating that comes to your mind, I suggest you sit back for a minute, curl your toes and go through a few episodes rating them each from 1 to 10. I always write this type of stuff down because I'm a "list" person. So mine might look like:
Ep. #1 – Rating: 0 – I was confused and didn’t get it.
Ep. #2 – Rating 7 – I get it. Looks like a great show.
Ep. #3 – Rating 8 – Excellent animation. Voice Actors aren’t the best, but tolerable.
Ep. #7 – Rating 6 – I can’t wait for the English Dub so I can finally understand what they’re saying.
Ep. #10 – Rating 10 – I saw God.
Ep. #14 – Rating 9 – Awesome ending. Would have given it a 10, but it ended before I could.
Etc., etc., etc...
Take those numbers and average them. That should give you a general idea of what you think/thought of the show in totality. Just a suggestion. Or maybe you'd rather break down the show by its technical/artistic merits:
Animation Quality: 1-10
Voice Actors: 1-10
Script: 1-10
Adaptation from Novels: 1-10
Editing: 1-10
And so on...However you do it, make sure you’re rating the entire show and not just the ending. Feel free to post how you arrived at your rating and what not. Cheers. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Mousefinger/Misc/happy.gif
I rate the show 10. Even if I did all the calculations it will end up with a 9.xx rating.
I've never been absorbed by a story so much, it literally changed my life. NGE, Macross 7 and Gaogaigar affected me alot before, they tossed my personalities from pessimistic depression to a much positive outlook. Haruhi reminded me of my earlier years and made me ponder my existance, which I've always wanted to know. I want to know what am I going to do in the future, but I think that this world is boring much like Haruhi felt.
lol I think I should continue this post at the impressions thread instead.
The animation quality is of the highest quality, undeniable.
Voice acting is outstanding, the characters sound very true and convincing.
The script was a genius, I pity those who couldn't get why the episode orders are 'random'.
The adaptation from novels was very good, though they had to leave out quite a bit.
I don't know what editing means though lol
Animexcel
2006-07-05, 20:47
Episodes 1-14 : 10
Animation : 10
Voice Actors: 10
Script : 10
Adaptation from Novels : N/A
Editing : 10 (Even though Episode 00 intentionally had film mistakes xD lol it was a nice touch.)
FatPianoBoy
2006-07-05, 21:38
I just really can't put into words how much I love this show. So many things struck a chord with me (some literally ;)), and many points touched me on a much deeper level than other series I've watched. In fact, the only things I can remember affecting me on this level are Eva and Saikano.
And that's what separates a 9 from a 10. A 9 is: 'Wow, this show is so amazing! I have to make all my friends watch it now!' while a 10 would be: 'This show will change your life.'
And, of course, it's a technically great show, too, with all the wonderful animation, voice acting, music, story, characters, etc.
Animexcel
2006-07-05, 21:54
I wouldn't say that the show changed my life. I thought it was just a fun series as a whole, including the music.
Kaoru Chujo
2006-07-05, 21:57
9.0
No series gets a ten, but this would have got a 9.5, if that were available. I don't believe in breaking ratings down into plot, character, voice-acting, animation, or whatever (as on AnimeNfo): the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. But if I had averaged my individual episode ratings, it would have been around 9.5. The epsiodes were 9's, 10's and a single 8.
I can't think of any show I would rate higher, though some are around the same for me. But this show is excellent in more dimensions (so to speak) than any show I can think of. The animation rivals Miyazaki, for me. Kyon hitching up the heater box as he started up the hill reminded me of the scene where the girl taps her shoes on in Spirited Away. Far less detail, but the same understanding of movement.
I'm still not sure if the show ended in the same universe it began in. My universe has changed, anyway.
I rated it a 9.
The show had some problems. Most outstanding one was three minutes of Yuki reading; if I were to recommend this show to other people, that would be the point where I'd cringe to say was "good". Other inexplicable bits (the weird focusing on Kyon's mole in episode 8) made it more "wth?" than "ah, that was subtle". Subtlety in entertainment doesn't quite work when it flies over the head of most of the viewers, with nobody actually knowing the true significance.
The episode shuffling also lost several viewers I know of. It's something that I doubt everyone can really agree on. I think that it was ultimately necessary, but that's an entirely subjective view.
But all in all, I'm hard-pressed to slam the show, largely because everything else was done in a technically perfect manner. I can't fault the animation quality. I certainly can't fault the dedication to following the source. I definitely can't fault the VAs.
So this show gets the highest that it can reasonably get, which is a 9. For the record, a 10 would be the sort of show that would undeniably and immediately convert an anime-hater into an anime-lover, and every single person in the entire world would love it utterly. In other words, a near-impossibility. (I rate episodes more leniently than I rate series, since if I'm watching an episode it's assumed that I can at least tolerate the series.) Even CCS, my all-time favourite anime, gets a 9. (I'm assuming no decimal places, and everything rounded down if there were.)
Like CCS, it gave me a new outlook on like. Now, I can use the term "Haruhiism" to describe my newfound philosophy of always hoping that there are aliens, time-travellers, ESPers, and other interesting things in this world... and that they'll all be willing to be friends.
CrowKenobi
2006-07-05, 22:59
After thinking this over a little I've made up my mind to give this great show a 9 (though like Kaoru Chujo, I more or less averaged out my votes for the individual episodes). To wit: episode 01/11: 10
episode 02/01: 08 --should be a 10, but I was a newbie at the time :)
episode 03/02: 09
episode 04/07: 09
episode 05/03: 10
episode 06/08: 09
episode 07/10: 10
episode 08/09: 09
episode 09/14: 10
episode 10/04: 10
episdoe 11/13: 10
episode 12/12: 10
episode 13/05: 09
episode 14/06: 10
total score: 133 out of 140 for 95%Notice that '8' for ep 2... I don't remember why I gave it such a low score, but in hindsight it deserves a '10' for the way it set up the series and hinted at the wild ride ahead. The '9's were for the episodes not "wowing" me in some way I just can't really explain. :confused:
I liked how the animation was done when it was pointed out how much stuff is going on in every frame. Unlike some anime I could mention produced by a "top studio" (**cough**xxxHolic**cough**), the visuals don't look flat, background characters aren't white, paper cutouts, and the color scheme is bright and vibrant complimenting the visuals not overwhelming them.
I'll add more as my muse dictates... ;)
Kaioshin Sama
2006-07-06, 00:35
I Give the Show a 7 out of 10, The novels are way better and go into far more detail, and its really not my type of show anyway in all honesty. Why did I watch it? Well, I needed something too do while waiting for my Metal Armor Dragonar DVD's. The novels I'd give a 9 out of 10 too though. I've seen lots of better show and far more shows that are worse. I found it to be Above-Average, there's no way I personally can justify any higher or lower.
How did I arrive at this rating, well as people including my mother and best friend tell me I analyze everything to death:
Animation 10 - I'm not gonna sit here and lie to everybody, this is obviously where the bulk of the budget for the show went.
VA's 7 - Well there wasn't a single mis-cast character in my opinion, but the performances for some, especially Yuki's VA Minori Chihara whose acting ranged from tolerable to "please shut up", weren't the best I've seen in an anime.
Script 6 - I've gotta say they could have chosen a lot better chapters and done a lot more with the chapters they chose. I get the feeling they wanted to focus on the in your face stuff and decided to say "Screw the novels subtlety and just go for the wow factor". The scripts held together within the episodes themselves, but the incredibly pretentious shuffling of the episodes crippled the character development by having it go all over the place. Whoever had this idea should be drug out into the street and shot to quote Garfield.
Adaptation from Novels 4 - Well what do you expect when a show is so short it can barely wrap up its own story in a reasonable amount of time, important details are left out entirely in the series in favour of "The Wow Factor", especially with the Day of Sagitarius 3 episode which featured more changes and ommisions then I can count, making what should have been an exciting episode end up a lame ripoff of Legend Of The Galactic Heroes and just about every other Sci-Fi anime.
Music 8 - Well its better than the music for most modern anime series, throw in a decent insert song in the Live Alive episode and Mahler's 8th in the last episode and you've got a respectable soundtrack, although nothing outstanding.
Characters 6 - Well since they only did the stories that focus on Haruhi and Kyon we are left with very little development for Mikuru and none for Yuki, Little Sis, Tsuruya and Tanguchi and Kunikida. Otherwise the two main characters are some of the most intersting I've seen in a while. Still you've got other characters, use them. There's no excuse for the lack of developlment for some of these characters when the novels develop them quite nicely within self-contained short stories that could very well have been used for the series.
Themes 9 - Well we pretty much have it all, Love, Social Issues, Religion, Meta-Physics etc. Can't complain about a lack of themes for this show.
Gave it a 9 .... not a 10 because it should have been a longer series (but I suspect we may get more) and I usually round down.
I'll agree with Kaoshin that the novels are better but then I find that is true of any visual treatment of a novel (the sole exception I can think of is Blade Runner - which I found more focused than the novel it derived from by Phillip K. Dick).
I guess I'd class this series as one of the best "should-have-been-a-Twilight-Zone" mini-series I've ever seen with its combination of science fiction, philosophy, romance, and anime archetype tweaking. I'll put it up against most television of any kind (anime or live action) and it'd fare well.
I'm mentally thumbing through every series I've ever seen. Some were great ... but almost every one of them had significant defects of some sort (animation, tripped up on ending, wierd derails that wasted episodes, etc). This show had almost no production problem outside of the "problem" that it required people to show up with an attention span and some clues.
Kamui4356
2006-07-06, 03:36
I voted earlier, but needed some time to get my thoughts in order.
Over all, I gave the series a 9. The actual average of the episode ratings came out to an 8.4, but that was dragged down by the poor adaptation of the second part of the already weak Lone Island Syndrome *Gave that ep a 6*, and the 3 minute scene of Yuki reading in Someday in the Rain which dragged that episode down a point*got a 7*.
However, a series is more than just the episodes, one has to consider how they fit together. The non-linear ordering was a stroke of brillance. While it might have lost a few people, putting the adventures of Asahina Mikuru as the first episode was a great move. It was a great introduction to the series, only people who were unfamiliar with the novels couldn't see it at the time. If you haven't done so yet, go back and watch that episode again, and you'll see what I mean.
Further, 3 minute scene shouldn't have the same impact on the entire series that it did on just that episode, and Lone Island Syndrome wasn't part of the main storyline, so let's put them aside and move on.
The main story line from was solid, and taken alone would almost get a 10. There were some minor issues, but they were very few in number. Most of the other epsiodes were also great, though in general they weren't as strong as the Yuuutsu episodes. Still they were enjoyable for the most part, if not quite as well executed.
A well done series that makes my top five list. I hope there's a second season, though even if there isn't I'm satasfied with what we have already. If the series is ever licensed, I'm sure to buy the dvds even if I can't quite afford them at the time and need to put them on my credit card. *something I really hate to do*:heh:
SnakeLegend
2006-07-06, 07:14
just... overall:10.00000000000000
Noppapana
2006-07-06, 13:51
10 no doubt about it
its one of the serie which has a special place in my heart
Ah well, just so you know I voted :p
I can't give it less than 10, really, the detail, the animation, the characters were epic. The story was nice, too.
steelbound
2006-07-06, 14:56
Gave it a 10. The only way they could have improved the show was to double the amount of episodes.
10, yeah, 10. Some people would complain about many things, but it's worth it. Technically first, then scenaristically, humoristically, etc, etc... Not mentioning the actors, the characters...
I said what I had to say in the final impressions thread so...
I'll just watch it again before burning it. :p
(And wait for an unlikely French release...)
Major Kerina
2006-07-06, 15:12
Animation Quality: 10 - It was alive in the animation. The animation wasn't perfect always but it never suffered any in quality. There was always a quality production put out, an inspiration to all anime.
Voice Actors: 10 - Kyon's VA was just utterly nailed through the whole thing and it actually was acting. One of the most interesting acting jobs in all of anime and Aya Hirano just as good if not better. Yuki's VA though understated did an awesome job of conveying her terseness without sound artificial. Her words just flow. Itsuki's did a great job of taking dry exposition and making it compelling. Mikuru's VA while not terribly layered, still showed a fun and compelling range.
Script: 10 - Perfect. Granted from translation but I could not imaging a better script. A post-modern, layered, literary tale which just blows my mind, highly developed characters and perfect pacing in aired order especially. My only complaint is it's hard to reconcile that space between episode 6 and 7 but I suspect that a followup OAV or series would fill in that gap.
Adaptation from Novels: 10 - The best novel adaptation I have ever seen in my entire life. Movie, play, tv show or anything. Books always tend to get the screwed in translation. This work if not pays tribute to it in every possible way while only literally being the book at certain points, exists as a declaration of keep the original author involved
Editing: 10 - Hilarious editting particularly obvious in episode 9, that first episode and others. But also editted to dramatic effect too. I don't know put this show together but they should get a medal.
Also the series has so much stuff hidden in it, that I'm still laying up late at night mentally deconstructing its composition.
So far as individual episodes
1 - Thoroughly enjoyable. It's nice looking back especially but it's a perfect in-media-res presentation of the show where you're playing catch up. Fun parody too.
2 - Great intro to the show, hilarious sequences, unsettling composition. So disorienting and it sets the mood for the rest of the show so very well.
3 - Kinda quiet episode, fun the first time and you gotta wonder how Haruhi can kick like that X_X. But it's all about setting up the clues for the end of the episode and episode 5. It also has the best line "I'm begging you. Establish context before speaking."
4 - A nice, utterly disorienting diversion but still fun. Probably the hardest episode to reconcile until the end where Haruhi smiles.
5 - Info dump of epic proportions and the library trip is classic. So funny. This is the episode that puts all the pieces together.
6 - A probably the most unnecessary episode but it still has enough cute little character moments and developments.
7 - Big mind-screw ever. But again, it's tough for me to reconcile how Kyon expresses his feelings on Yuki.
8 - Much more interesting than 6 and also more perplexing. I need to rewatch it a couple more times.
9 - Finally a respite. A chance to just sit back and let this series creep you out in quiet.
10 - @_@ Epic! An awesome melding of action, themes and characterization to just reveal not only details about Kyon but about the what's been going on behind the scenes.
11 - Plain old fun with plenty of Yuki development.
12 - My favorite episode if only for the play's inclusion. Perfect choice. Perfect music. Perfect character moments and till I saw 14, I figured the perfect culmination to this show.
13 - A quiet but philosophically dense episode which still has me pulling it apart.
14 - The perfect ending to the perfect show, Kyon is revealed as is Haruhi.
I could not imagine a better show. This is my gold standard for all anime from now on. Sure there'll be fun ones or good looking ones or philosophical ones but can any of them bring all those elements together in such a perfect way like this one did? It will be a challenge to see and I doubt any show will ever surplant in till there's a 2nd season of this show.
(And wait for an unlikely French release...)
French anime magazines are just now starting to talk about Haruhi. Of course, they're praising the series (who couldn't?), and begging for a license, so we can only hope they'll be heard by some company, although it would still surprise me.
____________
Being the anime "newbie" that I am, I'm so giving this series a 10. My 10 may not mean much since I've yet to catch up on the so famous old series, but out of the titles I've had the chance to see, this would rank as #2, right behind Mai Hime.
Just like many of us, I was really surprised by the first episode : I loved the humor, but was wondering how they'd be able to keep up with the level, since making 14 amateur movies would have gotten old someday. I obviously hadn't heard anything from Haruhi at the time.
I ended up seeing the second episode and being even more satisfied. The animation we weren't really able to see at first came off as wonderful for me, I immediately fell in love with the characters, and the humor was just great. I later read some spoilers about the real story, on Memento I believe, and got a bit spectical about the introduction of sci-fi elements into what I thought was a great humor series.
Later on, my mind quickly changed after the baseball episode, when I concluded that Yuki's spells just made the thing a lot more fun. And I understood that the series was crazy. The revelations that came later started some speculation, which became really interesting when combined with some spoilers. SHnY wasn't just something funny, but it went even deeper into a story that particularly interested me. I loved thinking about the possible actions of Haruhi, the oh so powerful Kami-sama. The parallels were also fun, maybe there's a Haruhi somewhere in the world that's controlling us. :uhoh:
I won't keep on detailing my pleasure while watching the series, but I thought the level was constantly increasing to reach its best with episodes 10-12-14. I've never wanted a sequel so badly, and any news regarding the possible making of more episodes might make me happy for a whole month.
In the end, Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu stays memorable for the humor, the animation, the well-handled sci-fi, and more importantly, the lovely characters. Kyon reaches the spot of the best male lead ever, leaving me in a state of fangirl-ism (another effect of Haruhiism?) that I've never been in before. The females were great : Haruhi for her little bit of tsun and the massive dere that's been shown in the last episodes, Mikuru for the squealing, Yuki for the show in episode 10 and the emotions starting to show up, and Tsuruya for the genki. Itsuki may be the least liked character, but he's fun for shonen-ai hints.
Thanks to everyone who's contributed to the appreciation of the series, especially a.f.k. who's done an awesome job. I also liked reading the opinions in the episode threads, there were no useless posts here (Shuffle! flashbacks, anyone?). See you for a second season, I hope. Or maybe for a future series that will be just as interesting, but I doubt that will happen anytime soon. ^^
Rasuberi
2006-07-12, 03:39
I simply give it a 10. I see nothing wrong with it, and I loved every single second. No unlikable characters to be seen, either. And it was just the highest quality series I've ever seen (animation, voice acting, script, unique characters and the flaws of Haruhi, everything...).
panzerfan
2006-07-12, 04:21
It did not change my life although it serves to summarize many things observed throughout the years. I am giving this a 10 because of how much interest this series give me and how suddenly the theory of everything seems to have a place to vent.
Cooldude
2006-07-12, 10:17
7
A bit overrated, it's certainly good, but in the end just feel like they shoved a bunch of sci-fi stuff without much clear-cut explanation, but I guess if I ever read the novel it might be better.
Shredder
2006-07-21, 02:56
9
Overrated but Haruhi (Shana?) is hot. Rock concert I loved. I also liked computer game. ED is enjoyable time after time, haven't seen one like it. Tempted to give 8 but the last minute romance satisfied me. Can't wait for OST. Sci-fi was a little funky and halfhearted (reminded me of Mononoke Hime), and some eps were boring (ep 1, heater ep). Heater ep was ridiculously boring, I fast forwarded at least half of it. It was like watching a security camera.
If you ever fast forward an episode of Haruhi it means you've understood less than half of the show itself.
And also I guess I was right that the sci-fi elements of this show does not attract most people. This show is equal parts sci-fi and comedy.
Shredder
2006-07-21, 03:17
If you ever fast forward an episode of Haruhi it means you've understood less than half of the show itself.Thanks for the kind words. As for me I don't enjoy watching people or cartoon characters sit in a room reading books or playing board games for stretches of up to a minute, with no dialog. Or walking up hills and riding subways by themselves to fetch heaters. I don't see any development going on there. Maybe some ppl's brains just work faster and allow FF, ne. You can go back to worshipping your Haruhi idol now.
My words are harsh sometimes but I do mean no harm.
The reason why people are not understanding this show now, is because they watched the show after it has finished. Which is really a pity.
Because this show has so much detail and info, one single person can never grasp and understand everything.
Those episode discussion threads are what that made us love this show so much. Every week we watched the episodes when they aired or when their subs are out and then we discuss them in the episode discussion threads. Thats when we learn how significant every single detail of the show is.
Yuki reading her book, it reveals part of her character, she's quiet, we know that. But it also shows that during most of her life, she's this lonely, she doesn't have people around her. You felt how boring that is, right? If 3 minutes is enough to bore you, imagine Yuki has been going through this for 3 years. Also something extra is that someone found that she flipped the pages every 2 seconds or so, but when people are around her, or Kyon is around, she doesn't flip them for over a minute or so. Is she observing people when they are around and not reading her book?
Kyon climbing up the hill? While doing that he revealed to us that after 7 months, he hasn't really got used to everything, but he has accepted most of it. And he was thinking of Mikuru and Haruhi. Thinking of Mikuru isn't hard, but Kyon thinking of Haruhi is something. It shows that he actually has interest in her, despite thinking of her as a nuisance all the time.
At the end of episode 9 we learn even more, about Haruhi and Kyon's relationship. This episode is a very important episode for the story's development.
I don't even want to talk about episode 1, most people really can't get how brilliant it is, no matter how we explain.
EDIT: Haruhi is not my idol, she's my god.
French anime magazines are just now starting to talk about Haruhi. Of course, they're praising the series (who couldn't?), and begging for a license, so we can only hope they'll be heard by some company, although it would still surprise me.
Don't forget Katapan that just On Animeland that they talk about Haruhi
No Over Magazine or Issues talk about Haruhi T_T
For The Overall Average
It's difficult To Evaluate
Animation Quality: 10 - KyoAni made a Good Work of This. Even If Shakugan Of Shana and Suzumiya Haruhi No Yuutsu looks a little similar (because of the Haruhi/Shana), Everything is perfect, even if little problem with animation sometimes (The Battle With The Giant Bug and the problem of animation). Good Job KyoAni so.
Voice Actors: 10 - Every Voice are good to hear, Everything correct on here... Haruhi voice is good, Thanks to Aya Hirano! My Godness of Music and Seiyuu *_*. Mikuru for the sensibility, Yuki for the fun and for the love, Itsuki for the Talk, Kyon for All, Tsuruya-san for the Laught and the Joy, Imotou for *_* etc... (Asakura, Taniguchi etc...)
Script: 10 - Perfect. Even if Everyone complaining about the Order, I Think that Random Order is more Interesting... Because they follow a logic line of question... Because for example... If Nagato tells Kyon that she is an Alien and the Episode 7 shows her Aliens Skills, the Next Episode talk about Mikuru and the Time Travelers because before she says Confidential Information etc... And because the more Important... The Anime name is Suzumiya Haruhi No Yuutsu, they only have 6 Episodes Of Yuutsu, the rest is the rest... And show the 6 Yuutsu in the Order and the rest on the logical order... The Anime name will not be Haruhi No Yuutsu but something like Suzumiya Haruhi No Bouken etc... I Think this order is correct and create some different feeling to appreciate it :)
Adaptation from Novels: 10 - The best novel adaptation I have ever seen in my entire life. Movie, play, tv show or anything. Books always tend to get the screwed in translation. Maybe I Will never be able to found it on my Fnac or Virgin Shop... But I Hope that someday, this Novel will come Out on France... it's more interesting to read it than boring Novel of School :/
Editing: 10 - 2 Differents Ending That Made 2 différents Paths. Haruhi Path (Episode aired on the order on TV) and Kyon Path (When he getting wrong of Haruhi). The 2 Paths are cool and excellent but... I'm so sad that Real Last Episode finish on the Winter with Haruhi smile :)... want Saison 2...
Overall: 10 - The first Anime who random a lot of Genre I never seen... Phycological, Love, Romance, Life, Humor, Fun, Science etc... Everyone must see this anime, just one Episode... Even If Episode 1 create Good and Bad Feeling (Like Or Dislike because Haruhi Amateur Movie...)... Don't stop on Episode 1! Just Continue!
Shredder
2006-07-21, 04:24
The reason why people are not understanding this show now, is because they watched the show after it has finished. Which is really a pity.Nothing to understand. It's a cartoon, not quantum physics. Discussion doesn't necessarily reveal anything that may not actually be there. Fast forward is legitimate if a series can't manage to prevent it--for example showing people reading books and playing board games. There's voyeurism and reality TV for that. School Rumble's as good but more fun by a lot. 10 on that, but not for this.
Ep 1 was a farce. If ppl hear explanation and analysis time after time and are still unconvinced, maybe it really is objectively no good. Of course, fanaticism doesn't lend itself to objectivity.
Anime are cartoons, but more than just regular cartoons. But since you take the show as just a cartoon, there's no need for discussions I guess.
Its the same as people who look at pieces of art and think of it as random waste of paint/ink.
Shredder
2006-07-21, 04:41
Its the same as people who look at pieces of art and think of it as random waste of paint/ink.Well you hit the nail on the head there. Japan should be more concerned about its economy and how much activity thereof anime can generate. In other words, how much money can series pull in. IMO that is the ultimate rating for series, art, music or whatever. Dunno how much money this series has managed to stir up, but if it's a whole lot then kudos. The number of pages flipped per minute of a character is pure trivia aside from its value in drawing fans and yen/dollars.
So regardless of explanations and analyses, if ep1 got poor ratings and did not satisfy advertisers and marketers, in the eyes of ppl who wield power it would be a failure. In the USA this leads to quick cancellations of series.
Dunno, I don't want to draw this off track but I'm not much of an artsy fartsy person myself. Anime should make people happy and generate money. Trivialities are of little meaning. Anime is putting food into some people's mouths, after all. It's late...I may not make sense, it happens
Anime is one of Japan's largest economic engines and is highly regarded.
And yes Haruhi generated alot of cash.
The CDs are only able to reach 5th place in rankings, or any other rank, because there are not enough CD's for that week to be sold. Meaning they didn't expect to sell so many and didn't produce enough. Until now the CDs are still being out of stock.
Importantly this anime is not just a cartoon, it is a story and it originates from a set of novels.
Right now these novels are topping sales and wanted lists over Da Vinci code and Harry Potter in Japan and parts of East/South East Asia.
This show is a story and has something to tell us. It isn't just a random cartoon.
Cartoons and Anime are viewed differently by the West and the East. This show is very oriented for Asians and I don't expect too much from Westerners.
FatPianoBoy
2006-07-21, 15:34
I'm beginning to wonder why Shredder is even here. If you don't like it, stop harassing the people who do. If you didn't get the subtlety of the show, then move on. No one's forcing you to watch it.
I'm tossing the show into my mental slot for important stories I want to remember (along with some of Twain and Vonnegut's stuff, Tolkien, some literature classics, several sci-fi authors, and the like). The combination of sci-fi, romance, and archetype tweaks, along with the production values just made this puppy dance.
I'm tossing the show into my mental slot for important stories I want to remember (along with some of Twain and Vonnegut's stuff, Tolkien, some literature classics, several sci-fi authors, and the like). The combination of sci-fi, romance, and archetype tweaks, along with the production values just made this puppy dance.
Can you really fit more into your mental slot, old man? :D:D:D
Ahem. Just kidding.. : p I'm not of the opinion that SuzuHaru is a masterpiece of any sort, maybe most probably because warps on logic often irk me. I find it very enjoyable though; and the novel is one of the top things I look forward to read.
I didn't say "masterpiece" ... though it might be one in the anime realm. But I class it alongside of Hitchhiker's Guide, Slaughterhouse Five, or Connecticut Yankee in terms of concepts explored, however subtle.
And some folks just think because they don't understand something, it isn't very good. Or they feel the need to trash something because they're insecure about not getting it. Viewing everything strictly in terms of money and considering art as transient worthlessness is a pretty sad way to view the world. Anime *is* all about the money and earnings at the base of it.... sometimes art rises up out of the formulaic cycle.
"Ep 1 was a farce. If ppl hear explanation and analysis time after time and are still unconvinced, maybe it really is objectively no good."
Yes, it was a farce but not in the way I think you thought. And... it may be that objectively, those people are really that dim. Much of the human race is really not very bright or at least lazy about thinking.
Shirobane
2006-07-21, 22:23
I'm beginning to wonder why Shredder is even here. If you don't like it, stop harassing the people who do. If you didn't get the subtlety of the show, then move on. No one's forcing you to watch it.
I think shredder has the right to voice his opinions even though they go against the grain. He's also even stated that he enjoyed the show. There have been far worse that have graced this subforum.
FatPianoBoy
2006-07-21, 22:33
I don't mind different opinions, it's the "I'm right and you're an idiot if you don't think so" attitude that ticks me off.
Onizuka-GTO
2006-07-21, 22:48
it change my life! i used to have a great social life, now i'am now a weedy, lonely, sunlight deprivied admin for a suzumiya haruhi novel translation group.
never been happier. thankyou Haruhi-sama!
*lick her shoes*
:)
CrowKenobi
2006-07-21, 23:12
Well you hit the nail on the head there. Japan should be more concerned about its economy and how much activity thereof anime can generate. In other words, how much money can series pull in. IMO that is the ultimate rating for series, art, music or whatever. Dunno how much money this series has managed to stir up, but if it's a whole lot then kudos. The number of pages flipped per minute of a character is pure trivia aside from its value in drawing fans and yen/dollars.
So regardless of explanations and analyses, if ep1 got poor ratings and did not satisfy advertisers and marketers, in the eyes of ppl who wield power it would be a failure. In the USA this leads to quick cancellations of series.
Dunno, I don't want to draw this off track but I'm not much of an artsy fartsy person myself. Anime should make people happy and generate money. Trivialities are of little meaning. Anime is putting food into some people's mouths, after all. It's late...I may not make sense, it happensNice... if they followed your line of thinking there would be nothing but Gundam and harem shows for the Japanese viewers to watch. :rolleyes: And shows that requires the auidence to think, would be fewer and far inbetween. :(
it change my life! i used to have a great social life, now i'am now a weedy, lonely, sunlight deprivied admin for a suzumiya haruhi novel translation group.
never been happier. thankyou Haruhi-sama!
*lick her shoes*
:)Well said man! Have a cookie! :D
SnakeLegend
2006-07-21, 23:46
aww well its the best series there is for this century for representing our current youth :)
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is definitely one of my absolute favourite anime right now. Very few can compare to it, and I'd say it's number two on my all-time favourites list (number one is CCS, which has yet to be dethroned).
However, I'm also of the opinion that a lot of the "WATCH THIS NOW" screaming is, well, overdone. When we get people arguing about the fandom rather than the show, when I see fans of the show saying that those who honestly didn't like it are somehow inferior, when I'm getting a backlash simply because I love the show even when I haven't said anything about getting others to watch it, then I think it's time to take several steps back and try to look at it in perspective.
It's an anime. It's a cartoon. It's an animated series about a group of people, and it tries to tell a story and tell it in an interesting manner. The creators both love the story that they're telling and want to spread it to the world, and expect some sort of return on their investment. One way of making the story interesting is by making people think, and this is what SHnY tries to do.
Whether it succeeds is up to the viewer. I certainly believe that it made me think, and it changed my viewpoint on the world. But I do not believe that everyone else thinks and feels the same way I do, and I definitely do not believe that just because they don't that they are somehow inferior.
I really must admit to utter confusion about all the yelling back and forth about liking/not liking the show. If you like it (as I do), fine. If you don't, also fine. Discussion comes about when like or dislike or indifference is based on some aspect of the show that can be broken down into objective parts and rationally spoken of. Going "I like it and so should you" and "I don't like it and neither should you" isn't discussion, it's a flaming row.
EDIT: Having said that, I'm also equally as confused about the sort of people who follow a show or its discussion forum/thread entirely to say that they don't like it, repeatedly and at length, and above all refuse to change their minds no matter what is said.
I'm also confused by the broad sweeping generalizations ("If you don't like show X, then you're Y" or "If you like show A, then you're B", where Y and B are negative) that happen far too often on these forums.
I'm confused by a lot of things.
Yes, it was a farce but not in the way I think you thought. And... it may be that objectively, those people are really that dim. Much of the human race is really not very bright or at least lazy about thinking.
This is tricky, because on one hand I am a subjectivist and do think that any piece of substance in art can robustly accomodate multiple viewpoints. On the other hand, I have a deep, searing, explosive hatred/dislike/annoyance-susceptibility to those who express really stupid ideas. So the two conflicting imperatives do cause some dissonance in me sometimes.. but I don't think it's a paradox or a contradiction (as the Japanese like to simplify it to). I do think the subjective world is right, and my anger at fucktards are a manifestation of my ego, my arrogance, my not stopping to think deeper.
In fact, I'm really fine with people thinking SuzuHaru is shit. I'm just not fine with people continually coming in here just to say SuzuHaru is shit and then continually plug some other series.. Annoying.
With regards to the posts about the economic reality of anime like SuzuHaru.. I seriously think that it is far too cynical to think that the #1, or the sole essence of anime is to generate profit. Sure, if they don't make money they will be cancelled, and people will lose their jobs. Money is crucial to sustain any sort of production or viewing of anime.
But just because breathing and eating are similarly crucial for us humans to conduct any sort of meaningful activity, doesn't mean that life is all about breathing and eating.
I think that what you guys consider the so-called periphery factors like artisticness, meaningfulness, enjoyability.. etc. are all integral parts of the anime industry as a whole. Sure, I'll grant you that in Japan, the companies seriously milk Otakus dry.. it's shameless, and almost sad. As a result, females always feature on the covers of merchandise like DVDs, manga tankubons, posters etc, while the main male character is supposedly the most important character of their various animations. Just look at Tsuyokiss, Tsukihime, AIR, SuzuHaru, and so forth. If you were extremely cynical, you'd think that the male character was but a foil to allow the expansion, development and action of the female characters...
Regardless, I think despite this commercialistic drive in anime, there is real heart, and real art within it. Especially from the works of Hayao Miyazaki of Ghibli.. or that of Mamoru Oshii's works. No one would deny the importance of the plot to AIR, or that it meant very much to many of its viewers. There is also always the underground world of doujin that holds some very precious gems, like that of Yoshitoshi ABe.. In all, I think even the creators of anime, manga or novels, while watchful and noting of the need to attract a sustainable fanbase, want to insert some meaningful piece of themselves into their works.. and out into the world.
@arias: Well written.... I'd only qualify my previous remarks in that I'd add that not all opinions are equal. A brick can have an opinion - it takes more work to have an opinion based on study and analysis of the subject and the realization that there may be more than one answer.
I can *call* a well-recognized piece of art "garbage", but then it is going to color my credibility for anything else I might say if I don't substantiate it pretty thoroughly. I'm better off just saying "it wasn't for me".
Example: I really don't care for many 20th C. authors literary people drool over (Faulkner, Hemingway, Williams, etc). I've read their stuff.. its well crafted, I just don't care for the content. I am not going to walk into a book club discussion with the introductory remark that "Faulkner sucks" because no one will listen to anything I say after that... with good reason.
The content of Haruhi contains scientific and philosophical ideas I'm interested in, witty dialog, some outstanding directing techniques that recall some of Hitchcock and Orson Welles camera work, and the KyoAni animation quality. So I'm probably not going want to spend a lot of time dealing with someone who disregards or misses all of those things.
I'm also confused by the broad sweeping generalizations ("If you don't like show X, then you're Y" or "If you like show A, then you're B", where Y and B are negative) that happen far too often on these forums.
I'm confused by a lot of things.
Actually I have this thing which I'll call "Shuffle trial", which is remarkably accurate about which people are worth talking to and which people should be shot on sight :p Amazingly enough, it's rarely wrong (based on other people's assumptions as well). So yes, there are crucial things to be learned from a person's preference in anime and characters.
The same might apply for MoSH, although I haven't got sufficient feedback to measure its accuracy yet. Sweeping generalizations shouldn't be looked down so much :p
Regardless, I think despite this commercialistic drive in anime, there is real heart, and real art within it. Especially from the works of Hayao Miyazaki of Ghibli.. or that of Mamoru Oshii's works. No one would deny the importance of the plot to AIR, or that it meant very much to many of its viewers. There is also always the underground world of doujin that holds some very precious gems, like that of Yoshitoshi ABe.. In all, I think even the creators of anime, manga or novels, while watchful and noting of the need to attract a sustainable fanbase, want to insert some meaningful piece of themselves into their works.. and out into the world.
I agree. I'd like to add that I see nothing "wrong" in making anime to make money. I think that it's perfectly acceptable to want to make a profit, and tell a good story. It's not like the two are mutually exclusive.
Shredder
2006-07-22, 04:12
If you ever fast forward an episode of Haruhi it means you've understood less than half of the show itself.I was just pissed off at this tactless and condescending comment and went off on a tangent. Apparently Haruhi's doing well economically. I know the anime industry is robust in Japan. I wonder how well this series will age though. Fads do come and go, and it can be hard to tell what is one and what's not.
I said the series overall was all right, but a few eps I thought were poor. With some of the fanaticism I see around here, I suspect some people would defend an ep of watching paint dry. After all, some people would try to justify that as a legitimate expression of art. It's bogus for ppl like me. What I meant about bringing economics into it is...Haruhi could get away with eps like ep1 and the heater ep because the rest of the series could make up for it. No matter how ppl try to justify things like those eps artistically, a lot of ppl find them boring or confusing, and if that keeps up in a series then where will be trouble.
Anyway voicing reasoned dissent shouldn't be grounds for shooing someone out of a discussion. It's not explicitly a fan club.
clearacell
2006-07-22, 04:19
Nothing to understand. It's a cartoon, not quantum physics. Discussion doesn't necessarily reveal anything that may not actually be there. Fast forward is legitimate if a series can't manage to prevent it--for example showing people reading books and playing board games. There's voyeurism and reality TV for that. School Rumble's as good but more fun by a lot. 10 on that, but not for this.
Ep 1 was a farce. If ppl hear explanation and analysis time after time and are still unconvinced, maybe it really is objectively no good. Of course, fanaticism doesn't lend itself to objectivity.
When you take things at face value it makes one wonder if you got Fs in English every year.
I would have given it a 9something but since that isn't an option I simply gave it a 10. It's an incredibly satisfying series filled with memorable moments. It did so many things right that it would be downright depressing if it didn't get a second season.
Shredder
2006-07-22, 04:25
See...once again the highfalutin condescension comes out. I'm an excellent student in every subject and ace every standardized test, including writing and verbal portions. But I still don't enjoy watching other people read books or fetch heaters on uneventful errands (and a lot of smart ppl don't, anonymous rep stainer--esp those whose time is valuable, mind you).
On another note, I wish the romance had been brought out a little more. I could've used a Haruhi blush, just one might've been fine. Or maybe there was one and I missed it, perhaps FF does have its disadvantages. I guess that ponytail at the end had a similar effect...but nothing beats the blush. I just never saw much of a soft side to her character, she seemed pretty bitchy and hardened throughout, unlike most series.
Haha, I got a negative rep for this? For what, slighting somebody's holy Haruhi? How immature and improper, bring it on. Or apparently it's not so anonymous and more retaliatory, dork
You're probably never going to like a lot of foreign film then or films made a few decades ago. They're full of long moments where "nothing happens".
However, I do agree it would have been nice to see a bit of blush at the appropriate point. A lot of her progress was very subtle.. .like suddenly being bothered at the idea of changing clothes in front of Kyon (when she could have cared less at first) or the way she started grabbing his hand rather than his tie. And the way she brightened up when he'd sound interested in her ideas.
However, apparently KyoAni decided to stick really close to the atmosphere and subtlety of the novels even when it required the viewer to pay very close attention to little details. A fair number of people missed the evolution of Yuki's character and thought she was a static cardboard figure.
The "heater ep" is a subtle episode showing just how far the relationship of the characters has come. Superficially its a "day in the life" but the way the characters interact (especially at the end of the ep with Kyon and Haruhi) says a lot about how close they've become.
(in case anyone is wondering why I'm up at 0340... its still 95F in a region where air conditioning is unusual and its normally 50F at this hour... whee for northern hemisphere-wide heat wave)
Shredder
2006-07-22, 05:54
Yeah, I guess I'm very American in that something always has to be happening. I hear foreigners are not that way. I know my folks in India aren't, however that's not a 1st world place like Japan so the comparison is so so. I don't know if it would cut it in American TV or cinema (modern, anyway), extended scenes of nothingness.
The progress was super subtle. One blush could've sealed the deal. Couldn't they at least give that much! I thought the last scene (ponytail) before the little epilogue would've been the ideal time. Even if Kyon didn't see it, like when she was turned away. Yeah, right then. It would've been totally natural too after hearing something like that. Then a lil ecchi of course.
Yuki clearly changed. She kinda sucked at first and was boring. I didn't realize she'd play such a big role. She pretty much saved the day at every moment of trouble. Typing and guitar scenes were good stuff.
One thing about romance, is that Asians aren't as open to relationships or romance as Westerners do.
And, Shredder if you think my post is tactless, I think I may agree with you, but condescending, no. I've become rather harsh these days because of other even more baseless criticism for the show. This show is criticised by people who simply don't understand the show at all.
But if you do not acknowledge how deep this story is, you won't see how brilliantly written it is.
I've always had an argument that this show doesn't work well with most Western audience. Its not that the show has lots of meaningless scenes, its that the show is presented in such a way that most Western audience aren't familiar with.
SnakeLegend
2006-07-22, 08:04
Its simply that, Haruhi became the Symbol of us since she started out in this series, i give 10 generously since its been a very long time i had last seen a good anime that represents my ex-life ever since. It resembles so much that its scary...
Shredder
2006-07-22, 09:23
I've become rather harsh these days because of other even more baseless criticism for the show. This show is criticised by people who simply don't understand the show at all.This can be used to counter any criticism of anything. "Oh, but you don't understand it." Pointless for me to say yes, I do--at least sufficiently to point out some imperfections--so I won't bother. You can be harsh, but no need to make silly excuses about it. And it is condescending.
Part of what detracts from Haruhi is some of its fans. I've seen concurrence on this point elsewhere. I don't see this kind of zealous devotion to series like School Rumble, and it makes it easier to simply enjoy them. I'm pushed to find faults in this series just to avoid becoming a zealot. For all of this series' supposed merits, it hasn't found the same appreciation as Spirited Away or some other Ghibli flicks and other series. In fact, if Haruhi were uglier, not only would the popularity drop off but also no characters in the show would accept her, seeing as she has few other redeeming traits.
I've always had an argument that this show doesn't work well with most Western audience. Its not that the show has lots of meaningless scenes, its that the show is presented in such a way that most Western audience aren't familiar with.Let's not forget that Western audiences/markets (read: American by and large) are what dictate the global success or failure of any production. And that the West, USA especially with her action-packed TV and cinema that sweep world markets off their feet, is currently on top of the world. So there is a thing or two to be said against condescension and highfalutin attitudes
Part of what detracts from Haruhi is some of its fans. I've seen concurrence on this point elsewhere. I don't see this kind of zealous devotion to series like School Rumble, and it makes it easier to simply enjoy them. I'm pushed to find faults in this series just to avoid becoming a zealot. For all of this series' supposed merits, it hasn't found the same appreciation as Spirited Away or some other Ghibli flicks and other series. In fact, if Haruhi were uglier, not only would the popularity drop off but also no characters in the show would accept her, seeing as she has few other redeeming traits.
So you're letting other people's viewpoints affect yours negatively. Nothing wrong with pointing out its imperfection, this show isnt perfect after all. Nothing wrong with feeling a little put-off by its fan's zealousness.
But actively finding fault in a show just to prove them wrong is a little sad isnt it? Is it their (the fan's) fault? Not any more, because you can choose whether or not to view that way. Like you said, that doesnt allow you to enjoy the show. So why do it? Why spoil this experience for yourself?
Let's not forget that Western audiences/markets (read: American by and large) are what dictate the global success or failure of any production. And that the West, USA especially with her action-packed TV and cinema that sweep world markets off their feet, is currently on top of the world.
I think many here would disagree with that. In anycase, for SHnY, does global success really matter? I never thought of it as being intended for a worldwide super release or something.
Woooooo~ off topic.
I gave this series an 8. I enjoyed it very much while it lasted, but probably because it wasnt the type that really leaves a lasting impression on me, I cant say that it will stay with me forever (i.e. make me cry whenever I hear a song from it, make me cringe when I see its title; that, automatic 10 :p). I think, that while the characters were superb, I wanted more emo. Thats just me, don't worry.
Also ... calling Haruhi herself "ugly" because "she has few redeeming traits" .... just keep in mind thats an opinion of her personality not everyone shares.
I find strong women very attractive whereas I find the docile types less so. Haruhi was a very compelling personality for me.
Her strength is complicated by her agonizing over the idea that she may not having meaning or worth because she's only 1 of a multiple billion people. She spends most of the series in an almost panic over that idea which she responds to with her assertive actions.
Japan produces anime for Japan... period. Meaning they aren't designing them for the cultural values or tastes of the rest of the world. If one happens to crossover and become popular (as this one did), its just bonus because they'll be more likely to license it to an American distributor. Many anime viewers (particularly the ones who don't just watch simple action anime) are looking for the expression of japanese culture and the novelty of that compared to their own culture. American TV simply doesn't offer much of this kind of story anymore (american tv tends to operate in a "herd" mode.... right now we're being buried in cop'n'law shows all almost identical with only a few of them actually developing their characters).
So you're letting other people's viewpoints affect yours negatively.
I think this is a criticism that can apply to us all.
I'm pushed to find faults in this series just to avoid becoming a zealot.
I've become rather harsh these days because of other even more baseless criticism for the show.
Which is why I've been trying to say from the beginning: Discuss the show based on the show, not on the fandom.
FatPianoBoy
2006-07-22, 15:37
Let's not forget that Western audiences/markets (read: American by and large) are what dictate the global success or failure of any production. And that the West, USA especially with her action-packed TV and cinema that sweep world markets off their feet, is currently on top of the world. So there is a thing or two to be said against condescension and highfalutin attitudes
Frankly, I couldn't care less about the popularity or success of a show. That's not a qualifier for enjoyment. I gravitate toward anime because I'm tired of everything that the television tries to shove down my throat. It all tastes the same, and none of it's filling (except Lost). So, if that's the case, why would I want anime that reminds me of Western creations?
Success does not define quality. I'd love this show just as much if no one else in the world liked it. Your point is completely moot.
Japan produces anime for Japan... period. Meaning they aren't designing them for the cultural values or tastes of the rest of the world. If one happens to crossover and become popular (as this one did), its just bonus because they'll be more likely to license it to an American distributor. Many anime viewers (particularly the ones who don't just watch simple action anime) are looking for the expression of japanese culture and the novelty of that compared to their own culture. American TV simply doesn't offer much of this kind of story anymore (american tv tends to operate in a "herd" mode.... right now we're being buried in cop'n'law shows all almost identical with only a few of them actually developing their characters).
Actually, I think things are changing in this aspect; albeit only slightly. Now we have pre-licensed anime which have American distributors owning the rights even before the first episode is aired in Japan. I think it's also the case that some anime are even receiving some funding from american distributors (e.g. ADV) for their production! I don't remember where I read this piece of news, but animenewsnetwork.com seems likely. Regardless, I do think there are some anime which are "designed" for a cross-cultural audience...
Regarding the criticism of Haruhi, I think Shredder is seriously alike Kaioshin in this case. Some anti-"mainstreamist" streak? Even though I've already posted stats showing that SuzuHaru is by no means mainstream... it has had a steady decline in its BT downloads ever since the first episode (120,000 to 35,000).
No, actually Kaioshin is pretty decent, he critises the anime, because it isn't as good as the novels. He knows his anime, but just likes being negative for some reason. Also his spirit of steel is too strong, he's all over mecha anime.
Shredder is different, because he doesn't treat anime like an anime.
Kaoru Chujo
2006-07-22, 16:43
To be honest, I'm with C.A. I just can't help but look down on people who don't love this show. Complaining about the episode order makes me almost despise people. I know it's not right to do that, but that's how it makes me feel. I think it's how people must feel when I say I don't get Mushishi.
But if three minutes of a static camera, but a scene filled with objects and sounds, seems boring, then try some really great cinematic art, like Woman in the Dunes, for example. That Yuki reading scene was hilarious from beginning to end. All my cells were on the edge of laughter.
It's perfectly appropriate, however, to want to find fault when so many people are being so adulatory about this show. If I hadn't watched it, I would have felt the same. I'm always glad that I loved this show right from the start, before the bandwagon had time to get rolling.
But I also can't help feeling odd when other people don't like the shows I like. I worry that I'm missing some great fault that they can see. I don't want to be different from other people, it just seems to happen. And the more people like the shows I like, the more likely it is that other similar shows will be made.
I don't know whether popular taste is any higher in Japan than it is in America or India. I doubt it, since American movies seem to be very popular eveywhere. But I do see what I consider subtler humor more commonly in Japanese and British films than in US films. Mind you, I think David Lynch is a genius and Eraserhead is hilarious, so you can take my opinion with a grain of salt if you like.
Actually, I think that combining money-making with art is what can make anime and film great. Money without art is drag, and art without any attempt to reach an audience can be, too. I keep repeating that Shakespeare and Dickens were popular artists in their day.
Finally, and not entirely off-topic, I want to recommend the films of Eric Rohmer, a French intellectual who makes films that are subtle, romantic, intelligent, and hilarious -- and that few in America seem to know. Try Claire's Knee (Le Genou de Claire), Full Moon over Paris (Nuits de la Pleine Lune), Pauline at the Beach (Pauline a la Plage), Autumn Tale (Conte d'Automne), My Night at Maud's (Ma Nuit Chez Maude) or almost any of his 50 films. I think they might appeal to some fans of the subtle humour/romance of SHnY.
I don't really look down on people, but I really hate it when people do not put in an effort to watch this show.
This show is so good because of its depth, its intricate details, it has a really strong message and story under what seems to be a comedy and beautiful characters.
Its exactly because people don't want to put an effort into understanding the show that makes me feel really frustrated. Then they come up with baseless criticisms that the show lacks something which it actually has, just that they refuse to look at it.
I rated 10 for the show just because of its plot and story. I've mentioned many times in this sub forum that I watched this show solely for the story, I wasn't looking for a comedy or something nice to look at.
CrowKenobi
2006-07-22, 17:54
Part of what detracts from Haruhi is some of its fans. I've seen concurrence on this point elsewhere. I don't see this kind of zealous devotion to series like School Rumble, and it makes it easier to simply enjoy them. I'm pushed to find faults in this series just to avoid becoming a zealot. So what you're saying is that if School Rumble was more "popular" and had more "fans" talking about it you would drop it because of that... :hmm::dots::stupid: I take it that you're one of those lost souls who abandons a particular show just because it "becomes popular..." Sad, really.
For all of this series' supposed merits, it hasn't found the same appreciation as Spirited Away or some other Ghibli flicks and other series. In fact, if Haruhi were uglier, not only would the popularity drop off but also no characters in the show would accept her, seeing as she has few other redeeming traits.Well, Ghibli flicks aren't adapted from light novels (which are selling like hotcakes in East Asia...whoops! That dreaded "popular" meter is running dangerously high!) serialized in monthly magazines. And you're also implying that ugly people have few redeeming traits... what a shallow form of reasoning! :bash: And since your main point seems to be "if it's popular, it sucks!" your arguments don't have any legs to stand on.
:cool:
Shredder
2006-07-22, 18:41
I'm not anti-popular at all. In fact my anti artsy fartsy mentality is very much in favor of mainstream hits. Which is why I can't appreciate 3 min steaks of watching ppl read books for their artistic value vs their mainstream (or lack thereof) appeal. Let's face it, a lot of ppl didn't like ep1. Heater ep had its moments, mainly toward the end, but overall it too was lacking. If BT activity is dropping for this series, then--as I brought up in this or another nearby thread--apparently this series will not in fact stand the test of time very well.
SR's quite popular and I liked it. I thought the popularity was well founded. This, however, is more popular--sort of the it show that has drawn a large bandwagon. And I think ppl too willingly jump/hang on to that bandwagon. I guess once one immerses and devotes oneself to something so wholly, it's hard retaining objectivity, much less turning back.
LH was popular; SR is popular. They're some of my favs. While I'm not anti-mainstream, I am pro-free thinking. Making judgments on one's own, that is. So I'm not strict about my outlook on this series solely to oppose others. I just don't want to get caught up in a herd mentality, making me extra careful in this territory. It's very akin to stock markets and valuation/overvaluation. If BT is dropping, that to me would not appear to be a good sign. It makes me wonder if and when ppl will start to jump ship. Hell, it could be an academic study for some prof who studies anime.
CrowKenobi
2006-07-22, 18:47
I'm not anti-popular at all. In fact my anti artsy fartsy mentality is very much in favor of mainstream hits. Which is why I can't appreciate 3 min steaks of watching ppl read books for their artistic value vs their mainstream (or lack thereof) appeal. Let's face it, a lot of ppl didn't like ep1. Heater ep had its moments, mainly toward the end, but overall it too was lacking. If BT activity is dropping for this series, then--as I brought up in this or another nearby thread--apparently this series will not in fact stand the test of time very well.
SR's quite popular and I liked it. I thought the popularity was well founded. This, however, is more popular--sort of the it show that has drawn a large bandwagon. And I think ppl too willingly jump/hang on to that bandwagon. I guess once one immerses and devotes oneself to something to wholly, it's hard retaining objectivity, much less turning back.I'll give you that. :D
However, in regards to your last sentence: isn't the opposite also true?
Shredder
2006-07-22, 18:53
Too many points at which opposite could be applied, even within that one sentence. So I'm not able to infer which point. I'm no Yuki you know ).
Btw I don't indulge much in Western/American TV or cinema. It's why I've joined this place in the past few months. But it's still wildly successful. I may be contradicting myself at some points--it happens during intense talks. I like to think I'll admit to it if called on it.
I guess the only definitive answer as to which camp is right (overrated, under, just right) is that time will tell. I think it's too recent to make judgment calls. However, being only a recently converted fan of anime myself, I don't have historical perspective about what has happened in past situations like this. I do know that markets correct themselves eventually. It did not escape my notice (accurate, unless I'm mistaken) that KGNE for one seems to have cooled with the passing of time.
Kamui4356
2006-07-22, 19:16
I'm not anti-popular at all. In fact my anti artsy fartsy mentality is very much in favor of mainstream hits. Which is why I can't appreciate 3 min steaks of watching ppl read books for their artistic value vs their mainstream (or lack thereof) appeal. Let's face it, a lot of ppl didn't like ep1. Heater ep had its moments, mainly toward the end, but overall it too was lacking. If BT activity is dropping for this series, then--as I brought up in this or another nearby thread--apparently this series will not in fact stand the test of time very well.
Just wondering, have you gone back and watched episode one again, after seeing the rest of the series? You might find your opinion of the episode change after becoming more familiar with the characters. It was really very well done, but if you aren't familiar with things, it's confusing. Whenever I recommend the series, I always explain just what the first episode is.
As for bt activity dropping, of course it did. It does with almost every series. 110k downloads of the first episode? That's almost in naruto/bleach territory. episode 14 still has 51k downloads, a huge number by any normal measure. I think many people downloaded it, then didn't get what they were expecting. Some probably thought episode one was what the show would be like, and were turned off, not realizing it was a "movie" made by the characters. More were probably turned off by the non-linear ordering. Besides, popularity isn't a good indicator of quality. People, in general, like straight foward, linear stories.
Also, if you didn't like the series that much, why'd you give it a 9? ;)
Shredder
2006-07-22, 19:22
Just wondering, have you gone back and watched episode one again, after seeing the rest of the series? You might find your opinion of the episode change after becoming more familiar with the characters.That might be true, but should a good series require multiple viewings to absorb and understand? I guess this is an honest question. After all it's a show, not a puzzle, I figure. Of course all the characters were strangers in the first ep and I had no idea who was who--but this series decided to be different and dump ppl right in. I found it somewhat gimmicky.
I'd say about 8.5 so I rounded in the generous direction. My opinion too could change with time, dunno. With each new series I gain new perspective and often changed perceptions of prior series. LH FTW always though. If Haruhi were ugly or plain and the ED dance were absent, my score may have dropped substantially. Kiss also raised it a lot. Blush could've done more if only it had happened.
As for bt activity dropping, of course it did. It does with almost every series. 110k downloads of the first episode? That's almost in naruto/bleach territory. episode 14 still has 51k downloads, a huge number by any normal measure. I think many people downloaded it, then didn't get what they were expecting. Some probably thought episode one was what the show would be like, and were turned off, not realizing it was a "movie" made by the characters. More were probably turned off by the non-linear ordering. Besides, popularity isn't a good indicator of quality. People, in general, like straight foward, linear stories.
Also, if you didn't like the series that much, why'd you give it a 9? ;)
Mid season figures were about 30-40k for SuzuHaru, while I think episode 100s-ish of Naruto registered about 225k downloads (I noted during the older Downloadanime.org days).. I'm not sure what the hell your point is though, and what that portion of the post is for.. they're all rather obvious points. I never made my point as a knock on the series but rather to note that it really isn't anywhere near "mainstream" or massively popular like the other series.
What SuzuHaru has, is not swarms of fans like OP/Naruto/Bleach but rather a smaller but very hardcore group of fans.
Shirobane
2006-07-22, 20:46
Probably the main reason for the drop offs since the first episode is simply because the second wave came in expecting a simple comedy. What they got however something different in which many of those did not know how to react to. Mindyou internet ratings aren't exactly creditable to start out with. In my mind, there are three things that no one can deny that Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu provided - it was fresh, the ideas within the story was thoughtful and it was produced incredibly well.
@Shredder
A good show could warrant another watching, but a great show would be one in which upon re-watching, you find out something new. It's not simply to understand (I'm sure that everyone that has finished the series understood what happened) but to understand better. SuzuHaru is subtle in the way that on the first viewing, you will recieve enough superficial in formation to understand what is going on. But on the second viewing, the motives and personalities of the characters become much more apparent along with many other underlying themes.
No, anime is not a puzzle but maybe all shows should have some puzzle elements in it. It'd certaintly make for a much more enjoyable watch than "hot blooded hero goes berserk and destroys enemy the end". As for SuzuHaru being a fad, maybe, but it is definately deep enough to challenge the throne from EVA/Rahxephon (and at the rate most of the other shows are going, we'd still remember Haruhi 5-years later). The show has its flaws, but it couldn't make less of a dent on my enjoyment. It's an incredible gateway drug into the universe that the novels built and in a way has enriched my life as I am currently attempting to tackle the first four novels in Chinese after years of not reading anything Chinese.
There isn't a doubt in my mind, the winner of this season is Suzumiya Haruhi and I only wish to be able to give this series more than a 10/10.
FatPianoBoy
2006-07-22, 23:00
That might be true, but should a good series require multiple viewings to absorb and understand? I guess this is an honest question. After all it's a show, not a puzzle, I figure. Of course all the characters were strangers in the first ep and I had no idea who was who--but this series decided to be different and dump ppl right in. I found it somewhat gimmicky.
I'd say about 8.5 so I rounded in the generous direction. My opinion too could change with time, dunno. With each new series I gain new perspective and often changed perceptions of prior series. LH FTW always though. If Haruhi were ugly or plain and the ED dance were absent, my score may have dropped substantially. Kiss also raised it a lot. Blush could've done more if only it had happened.
So, first you complain about it being gimmicky, and then you pull out superficial criteria like the characters' looks and the ED dance?
:twitch:
... I feel like saying something very Kyonish, but I shall refrain.
Shirobane, I definitely encourage you to read the chinese novels. They aren't really that difficult to understand if you have some chinese backgrounds, and they are pretty updated as well.
I will post my thoughts on the series later, already pretty late over here. ;)
Kamui4356
2006-07-23, 00:03
I'm not sure what the hell your point is though, and what that portion of the post is for.. they're all rather obvious points.
Umm... If they're rather obvious, why are you asking what my point was? Also, what's with the "what the hell"? Kind of a rude way to phrase things to someone who wasn't even responding to you... :eyebrow:
I was responding to Shredder's comments that the declining bt downloads were somehow indicitave of how well the series will stand the test of time. I was merely pointing out that it's common for a series to decline in downloads as people decide it isn't for them, while offering speculations to reasons for it in this case, based on which episodes saw the biggest drops in downloads.
As for my almost naruto/bleach territory comment, I was using that to show the number of downloads were unsustainable for an anime targeted at otaku. Only mainstream series like Naruto and Bleach get that many downloads. Last time I checked, Bleach was getting about 100k downloads per episode, and Naruto about 170k, with some peaking above 200k. I'm not aware of any other series breaking the 100k barrier. Now that was a while ago, and I'm sure they've since gone up, but I don't care enough to check.
That might be true, but should a good series require multiple viewings to absorb and understand? I guess this is an honest question. After all it's a show, not a puzzle, I figure. Of course all the characters were strangers in the first ep and I had no idea who was who--but this series decided to be different and dump ppl right in. I found it somewhat gimmicky.
Ah, but that's exactly my definition of a good show. ;) I like shows that you can watch over and over, discovering something new each time. I do kind of agree with you about episode one dumping you right in though. While I don't personally mind it, like I mentioned before, whenever I recommend the series to someone, I tell them about episode 1 for that very reason. :)
*Rewatchability* is one of my key factors in determining the goodness of a series (just like a book is better if I can reread it periodically and continue to enjoy it or spot things I missed or reconnect with the story in a new light).
I've been suggesting to anyone I think would like this series that they start with episode two and come back to one later unless they've had some experience with "disorienting" film technique (suddenly "12 Monkeys" springs to mind or a couple of Hitchcock films). They also have to commit to watching the first five episodes before making any judgement.
In my case, about 10 minutes into ep 1, I could see we were getting foreshadow clues and that this was a really well-animated version of a "student made film". The narration was what really kept me intrigued with its dry sardonic comment.
Then at the end when it cuts to "real life" (normal KyoAni animation), its really an eyecatch event.
SnakeLegend
2006-07-23, 01:03
from what i see from some of my friends, they quitted Naruto because of the same sequence and such going on and was bored of it. As for bleach we continued, its pretty interesting, but boring at times too.
now as i read through all the viewpoints, arguments and such just now, i found out something... only true anime lovers appreciate whats in all the anime. bad or not, there's always a flower blooming in them, so still they're beautiful.
in my standpoint, i still loved Susumiya Haruhi No Yuutsu. I even went mad as i did for Shuffle! and Shakugan No Shana, and was saving money for the novels and manga, japanese imports or not. Because i think SHnY is something worth it to buy, something worth myself to bring down to the next generation. i had my family prepare to watch it, but due to no burners, i have to ask friends to help me burn them out. sadly no Chinese subs from them.
and yeah... SHnY, in a way, is also like School Rumble. Not in the school life way but the way they do things. all the same i say.
hmmm well EP1 for SHnY is like someone said, bad? i dunno, i just liked it for the sensation, pretty interesting. everything that has a start is never nice, but wait till it blooms.
Umm... If they're rather obvious, why are you asking what my point was? Also, what's with the "what the hell"? Kind of a rude way to phrase things to someone who wasn't even responding to you... :eyebrow:
[...]
As for my almost naruto/bleach territory comment, I was using that to show the number of downloads were unsustainable for an anime targeted at otaku. Only mainstream series like Naruto and Bleach get that many downloads. Last time I checked, Bleach was getting about 100k downloads per episode, and Naruto about 170k, with some peaking above 200k. I'm not aware of any other series breaking the 100k barrier. Now that was a while ago, and I'm sure they've since gone up, but I don't care enough to check.
Well, cry me a river if you feel hurt.
You're right about unsustainability, it's just that you weren't anywhere nearly as clear in your previous post which would not have informed Shredder of SuzuHaru's unique status apart from the other anime. I think AMG actually sustained a fairly high number of downloads for quite some time; with many episodes from the first season roaming around 120k. However, it's now probably dropped to lower than 40k..
We have to be careful about generalizing the target audience factor to other anime in your notion of unsustainability, though. AMG S2 and more notably recently, School Rumble S2's BT downloads have dropped probably in part because of their inconsistent subbing schedule. People just drop it and leave because of that.. SuzuHaru had a really consistent subbing schedule so this couldn't have been the case. In any case, while it is likely that the viewership target of SuzuHaru played a part in its BT downloads dip, I think the fact that it was a steady decline in BT download figures that hints that there's abit more to the story.
It just really says that it's losing more and more of its audience as it runs (eventually stabilizing at 40,000+/-).. whereas you'd think that if it were just the otaku/mainstream factor, the dip would have been rather immediate and the stabilization occur more quickly than not.
Kamui4356
2006-07-23, 02:55
Well, cry me a river if you feel hurt.
I didn't say I felt hurt, rather I thought it a bit rude. I mean I could see if I had directed the comments at you.... meh, doesn't really matter much...
You're right about unsustainability, it's just that you weren't anywhere nearly as clear in your previous post which would not have informed Shredder of SuzuHaru's unique status apart from the other anime. I think AMG actually sustained a fairly high number of downloads for quite some time; with many episodes from the first season roaming around 120k. However, it's now probably dropped to lower than 40k..
I was on my way out the door when I typed that. I thought it got the meaning across, but since I knew what I was trying to say, my judgement isn't really that accurate. I apologize for any ambiguity.
I don't remember how many downloads AMG got, and I can't seem to find any statistics for it either, nor for the second season. However, if one discounts the losses to irregular fansubbing for season 2, I'm sure it followed a similiar trend, "bleeding" fans as the series progressed. Apart from series like Naruto and Bleach, which gain more viewers than they lose due to mainstream appeal, most anime series seem to follow that pattern.
Of course, it's harder to tell with series released by multiple groups. For those it might just be a case of a lot of people downloading the same episode from each group to decide which to follow. :heh:
We have to be careful about generalizing the target audience factor to other anime in your notion of unsustainability, though. AMG S2 and more notably recently, School Rumble S2's BT downloads have dropped probably in part because of their inconsistent subbing schedule. People just drop it and leave because of that.. SuzuHaru had a really consistent subbing schedule so this couldn't have been the case. In any case, while it is likely that the viewership target of SuzuHaru played a part in its BT downloads dip, I think the fact that it was a steady decline in BT download figures that hints that there's abit more to the story.
It just really says that it's losing more and more of its audience as it runs (eventually stabilizing at 40,000+/-).. whereas you'd think that if it were just the otaku/mainstream factor, the dip would have been rather immediate and the stabilization occur more quickly than not.
But a big chunk of the dip was immediate, and it wasn't really a steady decline. Most of the audience SuzuHaru lost were so after episodes 1(~20k), 4(~10k), and 5(~14k). It's not so much that each episode bled a lot of viewers, as a few episodes caused a lot of people to drop it. If the decline had been more evenly distributed, I'd agree with you, but most of it came after just 3 of them.
PastPrime
2006-07-24, 11:08
I gave it a 9. It was an excellent series, but there are a few I would rate over it, including Noein.
Onizuka-GTO
2006-07-24, 11:34
now as i read through all the viewpoints, arguments and such just now, i found out something... only true anime lovers appreciate whats in all the anime. bad or not, there's always a flower blooming in them, so still they're beautiful.
LOL
where on earth did you pull that from? :D
Genius.
Gotta use that the next time someone question about my Anime hobby.
Nothing like throwing something random about flowers into argument to thrw them off. :D
But I also can't help feeling odd when other people don't like the shows I like. I worry that I'm missing some great fault that they can see. I don't want to be different from other people, it just seems to happen. And the more people like the shows I like, the more likely it is that other similar shows will be made.
It's because you're having difficulty reconciling the difference between something being "good" and it being "something you like". I can look at anyone's list of shows they like and find shows that are not good in there. Something doesn't have to be good (i.e. executed well) to be enjoyable - similarly, things that are good will not be enjoyed by everyone. And there's nothing wrong with that, a large part of enjoyment has to do with how a work resonates with the viewer. Since each person has different experiences - each has a different resonance with any particular work. The problem is that people are sort of wired to expect that they only like "good" things and dislike "bad" things - leading to silly discussions like this whereby people make up reasons for something being "good" or "bad" when what they are in fact discussing is whether they enjoyed it or not.
That being said, SHnY is obviously good (it was done by KyoAni and was executed as well as their previous series have been), but that doesn't necessarily make it enjoyable. Personally I found the episode skippage part of it's quirky charm. But then I'm also in the minorest of minorities, I watched the whole thing and didn't particularly love it nor did I dislike it. I found it to be an enjoyable watch with some interesting subplots, but if my choice had been this and another season of FMP!TSR, I'd have taken FMP. Now if my choice is this or a remake of Kanon, I'd take another season of this any day of the week. I thought it started stronger than it ended, but it still ended very well it had a lot of nice touches and nods to it's own continuity. And, most importantly to the author, it made me interested in picking up the novels. Like Higurashi no naku koro ni though, I can't help but feel like there's a much better story contained in the original source material. I mean MUCH better, it has the feel of something that has been compressed a lot to fit in what KyoAni wanted to do.
That being said, SHnY is obviously good (it was done by KyoAni and was executed as well as their previous series have been), but that doesn't necessarily make it enjoyable. Personally I found the episode skippage part of it's quirky charm. But then I'm also in the minorest of minorities, I watched the whole thing and didn't particularly love it nor did I dislike it. I found it to be an enjoyable watch with some interesting subplots, but if my choice had been this and another season of FMP!TSR, I'd have taken FMP. Now if my choice is this or a remake of Kanon, I'd take another season of this any day of the week. I thought it started stronger than it ended, but it still ended very well it had a lot of nice touches and nods to it's own continuity. And, most importantly to the author, it made me interested in picking up the novels. Like Higurashi no naku koro ni though, I can't help but feel like there's a much better story contained in the original source material. I mean MUCH better, it has the feel of something that has been compressed a lot to fit in what KyoAni wanted to do.
See, whereas I simply have not been able to get interested in FMP. I don't deny it is good or well executed, it just doesn't work for me. And thats part of the ticket, there's a lot of good anime out there I just don't care for. Example: I'm not a mecha fan.. meaning I won't watch a story just because it has mecha in it. If its a well-written story that happens to occur around mecha I'm fine with it but if half the series is about the mecha transformations or power moves I'm outtahere.
IT IS REALLY OKAY TO NOT LIKE A STORY AND ACCEPT THAT IT IS WELL MADE.
One doesn't have to trash it to feel better. On the other hand, a story full of plot holes or characters that behave so erratically that you think the producers are using a random line generator for dialog should be labeled for what it is -- junk.
Higurashi and SHnY are both attempts to do something unusual and creative using some what appears to be really excellent source material. So you have to give the "Peter Jackson award for a really entertaining try" medal to them both.
But a big chunk of the dip was immediate, and it wasn't really a steady decline. Most of the audience SuzuHaru lost were so after episodes 1(~20k), 4(~10k), and 5(~14k). It's not so much that each episode bled a lot of viewers, as a few episodes caused a lot of people to drop it. If the decline had been more evenly distributed, I'd agree with you, but most of it came after just 3 of them.
I think your statistics are not representative of the actual situation.. mainly because 20k + 10k + 14k = 44k. SuzuHaru's initial viewcount was 120-140k. Let's be conservative and say 120k, so taking away your 44k means that 76k is left.
We all know that it stabilized at about 40k towards the end, so the audience loss is obviously much more than what you've claimed.
I realize it is one of the small ways we have of even counting popularity (downloads per ep advancement). But it completely misses the "sneaker net" spreading of files. I personally have at least 5-10 sets of eyeballs that I pass DVD burns to because they're on dialup or caps of various sorts and I trade download burns with people to reduce overall bandwidth damage.
So whether we're touting popularity or trying to show "da mob of hairless monkeys hates it they do" .... we have to keep in mind that this measurement of downloads/ep against eps/time has its limits as well.
I'd actually *expect* SHnY to have dropped in downloads over the life of the series at least in this first degree measure .... simply because Joe_Anime is going to have a harder time with it than the average series. Just like "Survival of the Fittest Idols Being Cooked by Big Brother" pulls in more eyeballs than, say, anything on PBS. Though even thats a hard call because many of those shows are on commercial tv ... not because they're all that watched but because they're *cheap*.
I realize it is one of the small ways we have of even counting popularity (downloads per ep advancement). But it completely misses the "sneaker net" spreading of files. I personally have at least 5-10 sets of eyeballs that I pass DVD burns to because they're on dialup or caps of various sorts and I trade download burns with people to reduce overall bandwidth damage.
So whether we're touting popularity or trying to show "da mob of hairless monkeys hates it they do" .... we have to keep in mind that this measurement of downloads/ep against eps/time has its limits as well.
Oh yah, for sure. I attained almost all my SuzuHaru releases through IRC, and that isn't accounted for as well. We can only argue with the available data and note the caveats -- which unfortunately I did not. Thanks for bringing them to attention anyways..
IT IS REALLY OKAY TO NOT LIKE A STORY AND ACCEPT THAT IT IS WELL MADE.
One doesn't have to trash it to feel better. On the other hand, a story full of plot holes or characters that behave so erratically that you think the producers are using a random line generator for dialog should be labeled for what it is -- junk.
I would like to point out that my point was that for every show you (you as in anyone, not you specifically, Vexx) label with "full of plot holes or characters that behave so erratically that you think the producers are using a random line generator for dialog" as the reasons you don't like it, I could pick out another one that has the same flaws that you like. Most works are average (thus, the definition of "average") and contain plenty of plot holes and inconsistent characterization (just like real life). That's probably not what you liked (or didn't like) about it.
For example, Tsukihime seems like the kind of show I would like - it has (reportedly) a good plot, kinda sad, little bit of action, lot of work on theme, strong characters. That's pretty much a recipe for success for me EXCEPT I can't stand vampires. Ergo, I will never enjoy Tsukihime. I can't control that reaction, I can't even identify what makes something like Tsukihime or Blood+ different than Tsukuyomi, Hellsing and Karin (series that are also about vampires but that I do enjoy). It's disingenuous for me to say I didn't like them because of incosistent characterization (or whatever) - because Tsukuyomi and Karin both have plenty of that as well.
I guess my point was it's okay to like something because you like it or don't like it because you don't - most of the time there's not any deeper meaning to it. The writer's didn't blow it, they didn't mangle the lines, didn't "cheat the characters" (that's my favorite) and didn't leave any more gaping plot holes than normal, you just don't like it.
I guess we'll agree to qualifiedly disagree in some odd but ambiguous way.... I think writers do actually blow it on occasion .. even for genre or plot situations or characters I think highly of. There is such a thing as poor writing.
I guess we'll agree to qualifiedly disagree in some odd but ambiguous way.... I think writers do actually blow it on occasion .. even for genre or plot situations or characters I think highly of. There is such a thing as poor writing.
I agree with that - there is such a thing as poor writing (it would be silly to disagree with that). There is actually a LOT of textbook poor writing in anime, it infects even shows that are well thought of. What I disagree with is how often it's invoked to give a reason why someone doesn't like something when I can look at other shows they say they like and they suffer from the same poor writing. Though obviously there's a question of degree involved - some things are written considerably poorer than others most of the time it simply ends up being a case of the positives of this show outweighing the negatives for that person but not for this other show.
aye.... in fact, I try to completely separate my irrational like/dislike for a show versus what I think of the writing. Heck.. some of my favorite series of all time had an occasionally horribly written episode (refers to "Spock's Brain" and withers away). And series that I loathe contain some outstanding writing and acting (my wife loves a couple that I just have to leave the room when they're on -- and they're excellent by theatrical or literary assessment).
The reason I consciously separate the two is that I'm asked to *grade* various creative works (speeches, debate, fiction, etc) that may conflict with my personal desires, opinions, or thoughts. So in the past, I've given highest marks to, for example, someone arguing against evolution and for creationism because they presented their argument so well (despite the problem that I could blow holes through most of the arguments presented by both sides). Poetry is always fun (not) ... because what I like is irrelevant to how well they are executing the style they've chosen.
I can think of two recent anime series where I was onboard all the way but observe that the writing stunk in the last arc of one series (they tried to have it too many ways) and that they trainwrecked the other in the end credits of the last episode (or rather failed to build to it when they certainly had the time budget to).
Another series I loved had a two episode derail of the plot which in a 13 episode series is very painful on the time budget.
You and I are on the same page with vampires ... we probably like and dislike those shows you list for the same reasons. But I also recognize that Karin fell flat (okay..maybe not "flat") on several episodes and made one of those "comedy/tragedy" transitions that are hard to fathom (Tsukuyomi seemed to pull it off more smoothly but then it started out dark).
There's some instances of SHnY where I'd have liked to see more... or that something I find in the novels I wish had been animated. But so far the show is pretty consistent in writing, animation, characterization, voice acting, and music, so even if I hated the story I'd still have to mark it fairly high.
Higurashi may end up one of those shows that I also mark very highly on all counts but take forever to actually watch all of because I'm just not fond of the story.
(we're going offtopic so I suppose I ought to clam up now)
Kamui4356
2006-07-24, 16:26
I think your statistics are not representative of the actual situation.. mainly because 20k + 10k + 14k = 44k. SuzuHaru's initial viewcount was 120-140k. Let's be conservative and say 120k, so taking away your 44k means that 76k is left.
We all know that it stabilized at about 40k towards the end, so the audience loss is obviously much more than what you've claimed.
I'm not claiming all of them left during those episodes. I'm just saying that's where the majority left. The other episodes have about the loss of viewer one would expect, at about 1k per. Those 3 I mentioned really stood out. I don't know where you're getting your statistics from, could you give a link? I'm going by afk's page (http://a.scarywater.net/afk/) on scarywater.
According to that there were 111,543 downloads of episode one and 52,305 downloads of episode 14 as of this moment. Those numbers are of course subject to change. ;) By my math, that makes 59,238 drops. Of those about 43 thousand (I rounded up in the initial estimates), or about 72% of the people who dropped it did so after those three episodes.
Note that this applies only to bt downloads using the scarywater tracker. I don't know, nor do I care about statistics from irc, traditional p2p networks, newsgroups, youtube, cds on ebay, or other various ways to get it. Tracker statistics are inaccurate enough, trying consider the rest is far too much effort, and would only serve to increase the inaccuracy.
I'm not claiming all of them left during those episodes. I'm just saying that's where the majority left. The other episodes have about the loss of viewer one would expect, at about 1k per. Those 3 I mentioned really stood out. I don't know where you're getting your statistics from, could you give a link? I'm going by afk's page (http://a.scarywater.net/afk/) on scarywater.
According to that there were 111,543 downloads of episode one and 52,305 downloads of episode 14 as of this moment. Those numbers are of course subject to change. ;) By my math, that makes 59,238 drops. Of those about 43 thousand (I rounded up in the initial estimates), or about 72% of the people who dropped it did so after those three episodes.
Note that this applies only to bt downloads using the scarywater tracker. I don't know, nor do I care about statistics from irc, traditional p2p networks, newsgroups, youtube, cds on ebay, or other various ways to get it. Tracker statistics are inaccurate enough, trying consider the rest is far too much effort, and would only serve to increase the inaccuracy.
heh??? I was with you until the "innaccuracy" part... but..... it isn't the "total numbers" of the downloads that are interesting (you have to assume thats a fraction of the total eyeballs) but how they dropped.
Each significant drop happened at the "tale-twister" points.
I' dont get episode 1, its stupid. (drop).
I don't have any idea what is going on in ep 4, I'm lost. (drop).
Ep 5 this isn't an ecchi romance highschool show? (drop).
That's why I always tell people to watch the first *five* before they decide on the merits of the series. Thats a bit of time investment so I don't even recommend the series to people I don't think will get caught.
It would be interesting to compare this data graphically with other popular series and see if there are specific "drop" points where a series loses people and how it relates to the storyline.
Kamui4356
2006-07-24, 16:57
heh??? I was with you until the "innaccuracy" part...
We can't say for sure that each of those downloads represents a unique viewer. They could be people who redownloaded for some reason. Not to mention, it's possible that rather than dropping it entirely, some of the lost bt downloads could represent viewers migrating to another method of getting the episodes. However, if we start considering other methods, the statistics aren't as easy to get, and uncertainty about unique viewers only increases, especially for youtube.
FatPianoBoy
2006-07-24, 17:09
We can't say for sure that each of those downloads represents a unique viewer. They could be people who redownloaded for some reason. Not to mention, it's possible that rather than dropping it entirely, some of the lost bt downloads could represent viewers migrating to another method of getting the episodes. However, if we start considering other methods, the statistics aren't as easy to get, and uncertainty about unique viewers only increases, especially for youtube.
To paraphrase: We've got no idea how many unique viewers the series had :p
SnakeLegend
2006-07-24, 20:01
LOL
where on earth did you pull that from? :D
Genius.
Gotta use that the next time someone question about my Anime hobby.
Nothing like throwing something random about flowers into argument to thrw them off. :D
if possible do it :p
nothing like anime-flowers blooming around~
Furthermore, bear in mind that it is mostly English readers that will download from a.f.k...
We also have French/Italian/Spanish/etc... fansubs of TMoSH as well, not to mention the sheer amount of Chinese fansubs.
And this is also discounting those who watch it RAW( or amazingly enough, from the TV itself :p).
As it stands, all the a.f.k. trackers show is that a lot of English readers either do not like TMoSH, do not get it, or are unaware of it.
Trying to stipulate that TMoSH is not doing well via the a.f.k. trackers alone is like conducting a poll in Kenya and concluding that Saddam Hussien is an Angel.
So what is the global success of TMoSH then? Well, your guess is as good as mine.
Cheers.
Hunter Nin.
2006-07-28, 07:32
The progress was super subtle. One blush could've sealed the deal. Couldn't they at least give that much! I thought the last scene (ponytail) before the little epilogue would've been the ideal time. Even if Kyon didn't see it, like when she was turned away. Yeah, right then. It would've been totally natural too after hearing something like that. Then a lil ecchi of course.
I'd say the bit where Kyon wakes up in episode 9 when Haruhi has put her cardigan on him could count as a blush... Her cheeks don't turn red but, well they might've in the offscreen bit.
I am just fine with no blush at all. Every single hints of her caring for Kyon are by far superior to the Tsundere's Mandatory Blush™
Kikaifan
2006-07-31, 01:57
I ranked it a 9. I'm one of those '10 is for perfection' people. If there had been a dramatic, sweeping overplot that had developed all the characters significantly but nonetheless left all the other good points of the series intact, I could have ranked it a 10. But perfection isn't easily attained, and I'm pretty sure some grand dramatic plot would have diminished other parts of the series sufficiently to make it a 9 again. But... there's always hope.
My gut-level evaluation:
I love MoSH. It's the best anime I've watched. The characters, no matter how archetypal, felt fresh and were fun to watch. The animation was great. The voices felt appropriate to their characters. There may not have been a strong overplot, but I wanted to see what the characters would do next time, and usually I wanted to see them do it again. It didn't require me to think, but it gave me opportunities to. It Was Fun.
Now for the pickier intellectual analysis:
Value:
Many critics have pointed out that this series acts like it's original while using concepts that are omnipresent in anime. Haruhi's eccentricity, as Taniguchi says, 'takes a path unlike any you've ever seen,' but she's still your basic self-righteous socially inept tsundere. Mikuru's cowering may be especially moe, that still just makes her the $1 special edition at the dime-a-dozen fanservice store. Yuki? Yeah, I loved Yuki... back when she was named Hanajima Saki. Itsuki pretty much is his philosophical ramblings and none-too-subtle interest in Kyon. The main character has secret powers? That's pretty much a truism in anime. High-school hijinks with a cast of weirdos? Masaru would be proud. Taken out of the context of the entire show, the only thing about it that seems even close to original is Kyon's often-clever stream-of-conscious evaluation of the events surrounding him.
So why am I not one of the people beating this series with the 'overrated' stick? Here's a phrase English professors love: 'subverting the paradigm.' The fact is, MoSH was constructed so that any plot contrivance it cares to implement, and especially those that are typical of anime, has a built-in explanation in Haruhi's attempts to make the world conform to anime stylings and the rest of the cast's need to keep her happy. That Haruhi assembles the Archetype Crew BECAUSE they represent their archetypes is the best example of this, and one I found both clever and hilarious... but it's that the entire show is set up for that kind of thing that's the best part. The self-deprecation of the first episode only enhances it. And that's why I think it can fairly be said that it subverts its paradigm, rather than just being a slave to it. Add to this an extremely memorable cast and a lot of Kyon's wit, and you've got a show that I'll enjoy enough to rate 9/10.
Characters:
The star here is Kyon. I'm not going to claim that Tanigawa Nagaru is the Japanese James Joyce or anything, but Kyon's stream-of-conscious-esque commentary is what gives this series its unique feel. Fortunately he's funny, so the fact that he hardly ever shuts up (at least in his head) is to the series' benefit. I like dry humor and sarcasm, so Kyon provides more or less constant amusement for me. Kyon's character development is nice and even- he slowly adjusts to the reality of the SOS-dan and comes to appreciate the rest of the cast, but the weirdness of his situation is always there in the back of his head (as the narration often demonstrates) and he never loses his critical voice, he justs brings it slowly into line with the reality he finds himself in.
Haruhi I have a hard time judging individually because I like the tsundere archetype anyway, but she displays a personal magnetism and level of physical energy that set her apart. Watching her, I easily understand why Kyon got dragged along in her wake against his better judgement. Her megalomania is hilarious, and while I'd take issue with her lack or moral scruples in real life, as a character I'm more than willing to forgive her when she provides me scenes like... say... all of episode 11. God I love episode 11. Her frequent lecturing of Kyon is usually funny too. Her development is the most obvious with episode 12, and to those who argue that the switch in that episode from a near-sociopathic personality to empathy and effort for the sake of others is too sudden, I respond that there is clear build-up in the baseball and island episodes, and that with her impulsive personality, I would expect her first act of kindness to come out of the blue as well.
I was serious when I said I loved Yuki when she was named Hanajima Saki. They hardly the same character- though I would love it if Yuki grew to show a personality comparable to Hanajima's, which is just right for the quiet-but-oh-so-useful type. But make no mistake, Yuki has a personality of her own. Yes, it's understated, but this presents its own advantages: even though her characterization and development are slight and in reaction to exposure to new people rather than life-changing events (well, I guess socializing with people might count as life-changing for Yuki), because she's effectively a blank slate even small changes or character-defining reactions are readily apparent.
Unlike some fans I love it when Itsuki's around. His philosophical babble usually isn't especially helpful, but unlike Mikuru's explanation of time travel or Yuki's 'you wouldn't understand this if I tried to explain it'-type responses, they're something you can actually wrap your head around easily. His hand gestures and the reactions he provokes from Kyon amuse as well. Unfortunately, he's also the character with the least development... frankly, I can't spot any at all, and you'd think that all this Yuki-watching would teach me to find some little things. Unlike the big three I can't say he's a 'good' character, just one I like to have around.
And last we come to poor Mikuru, Haruhi's chosen source of fanservice for the series. My evaluation is much like my evaluation of Itsuki... her mannerisms (see: cowering, mind-numbingly cute crush on Kyon) are amusing, she gets good reactions from other characters (Kyon may take number one spot for me, but he wouldn't be nearly as great without such great foils), but with little development, I can't call her a good character, just one I like to have around.
IQ:
I'm goind to have to disagree about the series being deep. Things like the Schroedinger equations flying around in the opening, Yuki's book choices, Kyon's historical and literary references, and Itsuki's philosophical meanderings are references to things that require thought. Mikuru's line 'we could no longer travel back in time,' properly examined, is the most mind-bending idea I've ever encountered in anime (one word: metatime). But, like Kyon, we get by just fine by accepting the limitations of our brain with regards to time travel and the nature of incorporeal intelligences or assuming Itsuki is just making all that crap up and waiting for something that really matters, like the subjects of all that jabbering threatening someone's life or reality as we know it. There are parts of this series that are empty intellectual fluff, like said flying equations or Mikuru's description of time and time travel, and there are parts that warrant real thought like Itsuki's subjectivist stance in reaction to his absolute knowledge of the mutability of their reality or Haruhi's existentialist crises. But... I don't know, it just didn't challenge me to think. It makes its references and provokes some thought, but I can't honestly call it cerebral. Among anime it might qualify as an intellectual giant (and frankly, I wouldn't know, since I usually stick to comedic titles), but it isn't exactly Parfit or Hofstadter.
Animation:
Yeah, it's superb for a television show. I love watching the characters move, whether it's Haruhi pacing, gesturing, and drop-kicking, or just Yuki flipping pages in a book.
Man, that feels good to have typed out. Thanks for your indulgence.
IQ:
I'm goind to have to disagree about the series being deep. Things like the Schroedinger equations flying around in the opening, Yuki's book choices, Kyon's historical and literary references, and Itsuki's philosophical meanderings are references to things that require thought. Mikuru's line 'we could no longer travel back in time,' properly examined, is the most mind-bending idea I've ever encountered in anime (one word: metatime). But, like Kyon, we get by just fine by accepting the limitations of our brain with regards to time travel and the nature of incorporeal intelligences or assuming Itsuki is just making all that crap up and waiting for something that really matters, like the subjects of all that jabbering threatening someone's life or reality as we know it. There are parts of this series that are empty intellectual fluff, like said flying equations or Mikuru's description of time and time travel, and there are parts that warrant real thought like Itsuki's subjectivist stance in reaction to his absolute knowledge of the mutability of their reality or Haruhi's existentialist crises. But... I don't know, it just didn't challenge me to think. It makes its references and provokes some thought, but I can't honestly call it cerebral. Among anime it might qualify as an intellectual giant (and frankly, I wouldn't know, since I usually stick to comedic titles), but it isn't exactly Parfit or Hofstadter.Well, stuff doesn't look so deep because its only the 1st of 8 novels, its only the water surface. Stuff only really begins after the last episode.
The anime is based on the 1st novel, which tells us how Kyon met Haruhi and how the SOS-dan was formed. We are also given a glimpse of the situation KYon has got himself into, that aliens, time travellers and espers are actually real. Kyon finding out and accepting the new reality is the only real character development we see in novel 1. Haruhi also had some development, but she hides it from us, or you can say she's hiding from Kyon. Everything we see in this story is Kyon's perspective.
I strongly recommend you to read the novels, where you will find what is really happening. You'll learn that these stereotypical characters aren't as normal as you think. The anime has shown little of Yuki, Mikuru and Itsuki's purpose and what they can do, especially for Yuki. The entire story is deep, but the anime isn't, because its only the beginning.
Some beatnik finger-snapping for Kikaifan for the nice post.... nicely executed critique.
@C.A. : he did note that the implicit theme of the series was "subverting the paradigm" -- take the cliche and *twist* it a bit, so he acknowledges the variance from stereotypes. I thought his ideas in the "IQ" section were interesting in that a lot of it was more of an indirect reference but I think there was as much as "average laypuppy who's seen a few documentaries on PBS" could probably tolerate. What I liked is that most of the references in the series weren't just technobabble (i.e. radicalize the pito-baron particle array, ensign!) ... but based on actual scientific concepts (proven or speculative).
I acknowledge his post as well lol, I'd say its really well written indeed.
But what I see from the stereotypical characters in Haruhi, isn't exactly just a twist. I think the real characters are literally hiding behind these stereotypes.
Aye... obviously we can never really know how the author arrived at his characters but I do think the characters were defined from from their backgrounds rather than starting with stereotypes and fleshing them out.
Example: we have an entity from a non-corporeal aggregrate mind that needs an interface to interact with organic minds (humans) and observe Haruhi. It assigns a node. Thinking about how the node would act, its background story (coming up with Yuki for a name because it appeared in the snow?), thin because of a lack of need for physical prowess, somewhat vanishes in the crowd ... and poof, you've got something that appears to be a stereotype but really isn't.
Kikaifan
2006-08-01, 19:21
Responding to CA:
I've read the novel chapters translated by Baka-Tsuki so far.
I didn't mean to imply that the characters were limited by their archetypes. The qualities of each that I discussed when I addressed them individially were all things I felt made them stand out. I might say that Mikuru and Itsuki were merely particularly amusing iterations of their archetype, but Haruhi, Yuki, and especially Kyon all felt like unique characters even if they were easy to label.
My intent was to argue that if MoSH has something that really distinguishes it from other series in a literary sense, it's the way it purposefully tells such an unusual story using such a familiar setting and cast... but I don't think that they're so familiar as to pose a detriment.
As for the IQ section: I maintain that MoSH's atmosphere is mostly based on a sense of adventure, 'what's going to happen next?' rather than giving you a real mystery to piece together, so there's no intellectual challenge inherent to the structure of the series. As for technology and science... well, they call Yuki a magic-user for a reason- while her manipulations may be rooted in physical law, her methods are incomprehensible (aren't even observable, really) to Kyon and the viewer. Mikuru gives us something you can at least spin your wheels on with the time travel, but I only ever get a headache, and since we only ever see one timeline figuring this out isn't necessary. The philosophy is probably the only really accessible part. The references give it a nice intellectual atmosphere, but like I said, it only gives opportunities to think, it doesn't require you to.
Responding to Vexx:
Thanks XD. I was worried I'd gotten too pretentious with my love of overwrought phrasing for its own sake.
CrowKenobi
2006-08-01, 19:50
...As for technology and science... well, they call Yuki a magic-user for a reason- while her manipulations may be rooted in physical law, her methods are incomprehensible (aren't even observable, really) to Kyon and the viewer. Well, isn't the old saying "Any technology sufficiently advanced can be called magic" apply here? ;)
Mikuru gives us something you can at least spin your wheels on with the time travel, but I only ever get a headache, and since we only ever see one timeline figuring this out isn't necessary. How do we know that we've only seen one timeline? :D
------------
I'd like to add this from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: (paraphrasing)
There is a theory that states that if we ever found out how the universe actually works and what it's here for, it will immediately disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another theory that states that this has already happened.
Kamui4356
2006-08-01, 23:54
The references give it a nice intellectual atmosphere, but like I said, it only gives opportunities to think, it doesn't require you to.
While I agree with your analysis, I see this in the opposite way. That's exactly what I like about the way the deeper elements are presented. Sure, you don't have to think, but doing so may give a new insight. Other series considered deep, if you dont' get it, you lose most, if not all, of the enjoyment from watching. With Suzumiya Haruhi, you can still enjoy the series if you can't, or chose not to grasp the deeper concepts.
Also, about your previous post, when you said the series wasn't deep, I can't help but think you're setting the bar a little high. ;)
sasuke13
2006-08-02, 00:54
I just wanna add that I didn't expect an anime series like this to be so popular, til I watched it myself. I was practically enthralled by it. And It's kinda rare to have a comedy-like like anime without the chibi-ness and slap-stick, which is risky sorta, since most popular anime use it. But with Suzumiya's spark, you don't really need it ^^. Wish school was like that look me!
SnakeLegend
2006-08-02, 08:16
who wouldn't wish for a MOE-ish elder female student in school with a quiet silent beauty with a nasty bam-stick using Haruhi?
sasuke13
2006-08-03, 01:58
Someone who has that "happiness" already...or Kyon XD
Kikaifan
2006-08-04, 02:07
Well, isn't the old saying "Any technology sufficiently advanced can be called magic" apply here? ;)
If anything I'd state it the other way around. It seems that the terminals manipulate the underlying informational qualities of matter and energy directly, so even if they talk about the effects they achieve with the terminology of our terrestrial physics, the manipulation itself is pretty magic-like.
Also, about your previous post, when you said the series wasn't deep, I can't help but think you're setting the bar a little high.
Yeah, I was basically asking to be confused. But I stick by the first line on the subject in the second post, that MoSH is defined by a sense of adventure. The mysterious aspects aren't meant to be figured out, they're just there to lend an air of mystery. All the science, philosophy, and references seem to be aimed at creating atmosphere, not a puzzle or thinking points.
I'd probably rate this series 8/10, but I'd like to keep my final judgement on hold until I've rewatched it. Although I'm not inclined to do so in the near future, I was wondering ... If I do rewatch it, what would it be like to watch it in chronological order this time around? I assume some have already tried watching it like that, I'm curious what people thought of that way of watching the show. I never did see the point of most of the shuffling to be honest (even splitting up arcs for no apparent reason), I wouldn't be surprised if I prefer the chronological order.
The main difference is that chronologically:
1) its more "slice of life" and doesn't depend on a Big Finish -- the last episode is just a nice little "day in the life of" and you see that the gang is getting pretty comfortable with each other. From a series "dramatic finish" viewpoint that could be a problem for some.
2) chronological order is interesting because if you missed some dot connecting the first way because of disorientation .... you *see* how the relationships evolve, you understand why some of the subtle details (ponytail thread, for example) connect the way they do. meh, you catch more of the subtle bits.
I thought it was pretty interesting chronologically ... but I'm glad I saw it in Twilight Zone order first for the artistic effect.
Kaioshin Sama
2006-08-12, 02:12
The main difference is that chronologically:
1) its more "slice of life" and doesn't depend on a Big Finish -- the last episode is just a nice little "day in the life of" and you see that the gang is getting pretty comfortable with each other. From a series "dramatic finish" viewpoint that could be a problem for some.
2) chronological order is interesting because if you missed some dot connecting the first way because of disorientation .... you *see* how the relationships evolve, you understand why some of the subtle details (ponytail thread, for example) connect the way they do. meh, you catch more of the subtle bits.
I thought it was pretty interesting chronologically ... but I'm glad I saw it in Twilight Zone order first for the artistic effect.
Best ending ever, Space Runaway Ideon, thats a Big Finish. You could say it goes out with a bang of sorts.
Best ending ever, Space Runaway Ideon, thats a Big Finish. You could say it goes out with a bang of sorts.
<heads off to the Restaurant at the End of The Universe for dinner>
panzerfan
2006-08-12, 05:14
I see the relationship of magic to technology in the converse...
any magic that is sufficiently understood is science
actually, I now think of science more as a form of philosophy than ever.
This is how I feel after having been through this series and read the novels, and taking a hiatus for while. (luckily I managed to get ahold of a friend who knows undergrad Quantum mechanics to explain decoherence and Hilbert Space in going at the physics of Haruhi Universe).
(reserve a seat for me too Vexx.)
Yuki-san
2006-08-12, 21:50
It's clearly a 10
It was the best anime I've ever seen
it has a great story nice animation and nice voice
it has a nice theme and moral
it has nice behaviors ahahaha so to speak
Kaioshin Sama
2006-08-12, 23:01
It's clearly a 10
It was the best anime I've ever seen
it has a great story nice animation and nice voice
it has a nice theme and moral
it has nice behaviors ahahaha so to speak
run on sentence, comma, cooooooma? coma? (me right now). It, it, it, it, It Came From Beneath The Sea. (falls down convulsing).
run on sentence, comma, cooooooma? coma? (me right now). It, it, it, it, It Came From Beneath The Sea. (falls down convulsing).
Not all input devices are cellphones. Readers do appreciate some care in composing posts. :)
Also, it never fails to liven up a conversation if you can correctly use the words "decoherence" or "hilbert space" .... "quantum entanglement" works better in darts or bocce
Yuki-san
2006-08-12, 23:50
run on sentence, comma, cooooooma? coma? (me right now). It, it, it, it, It Came From Beneath The Sea. (falls down convulsing).
are you my english teacher??????
o well I'm not writing a composition, paragraph or whatever so what you have said is just pointless spam!
I just want to say my thoughts on this anime don't correct the mechanics/grammar of what I'm writing....
I really like this anime!!!!
are you my english teacher??????
o well I'm not writing a composition, paragraph or whatever so what you have said is just pointless spam!
I just want to say my thoughts on this anime don't correct the mechanics/grammar of what I'm writing....
Relax.. Don't get wound up :D
As a side note, it just came to my attention that words and paragraphs are printed the way they are now with run-on sentences because paper was at a premium in the time long before : o Originally, what seemed was to be in plans was for sentences to have lines of their own. It's sort of funny that this economically propelled decision -- which is really arbitrary, fuelled the development of literature as we know it..
panzerfan
2006-08-13, 00:28
Well English of the old (really old days) knew not of comma, period or even established spelling of words.
leaving that aside... Kaoshin might be reeling from the passing of Bright Noa's VA. Who knows...
Kaioshin Sama
2006-08-13, 01:28
are you my english teacher??????
o well I'm not writing a composition, paragraph or whatever so what you have said is just pointless spam!
I just want to say my thoughts on this anime don't correct the mechanics/grammar of what I'm writing....
I really like this anime!!!!
Yes SIR! Very Sorry SIR. Will Not Correct Your Grammar Again..... SIR!!!!!!!
Kikaifan
2006-08-13, 01:29
Also, it never fails to liven up a conversation if you can correctly use the words "decoherence" or "hilbert space" .... "quantum entanglement" works better in darts or bocce
"The wavefunctions of my darts always seem to decohere into their shared hilbert space so as to be entangled with parts of the wall other than the dartboard."
Eh, I'm not fooling anyone, I flunked quantum mech...
Onizuka-GTO
2006-08-14, 16:51
lol. bad English. Let me say for the record, that none of you have the right to post bad english unless your from England. Afterall its our native language and we can mangle it however we like!
:D :D
To Suzumiya Haruhi things....
arrggh! Depromoted to old series. sad. O(;_; )o
Haruhi is dead....LONG LIVE HARUHI II! :D
Catgirls
2006-08-14, 21:16
arrggh! Depromoted to old series. sad. O(;_; )oWell at least until the second season begins... ;)
SnakeLegend
2006-08-15, 05:46
lol. bad English. Let me say for the record, that none of you have the right to post bad english unless your from England. Afterall its our native language and we can mangle it however we like!
:D :D
To Suzumiya Haruhi things....
arrggh! Depromoted to old series. sad. O(;_; )o
Haruhi is dead....LONG LIVE HARUHI II! :D
NO HARUHI IS FOREVER!
LONG LIVE HARUHIISM!
THOSE WHO DISOBEY...
Go to another world please -_-;
Kinny Riddle
2006-08-15, 10:37
Relax.. Don't get wound up :D
As a side note, it just came to my attention that words and paragraphs are printed the way they are now with run-on sentences because paper was at a premium in the time long before : o Originally, what seemed was to be in plans was for sentences to have lines of their own. It's sort of funny that this economically propelled decision -- which is really arbitrary, fuelled the development of literature as we know it..
Well, literature has already existed for some time in China at least, long before paper was invented, which happened to be invented in China as well.
Of course, at that time they had to write on narrow bamboo sticks, so it made sense to write in archaic grammar, with sentences that composed of a few words, but conveyed a wide variety of meaning. While it saves a lot of space, only the highly educated could understand what the heck was being written - nowadays only those majoring Chinese literature would be able to comprehend what these stuff means.
OK, I'm going way off topic now. It's kind of disorientating to see the SuzuHaru forum get shifted alonside the SHUFFLE! and Mai HiME/Otome sections.
OK, I'm going way off topic now. It's kind of disorientating to see the SuzuHaru forum get shifted alonside the SHUFFLE! and Mai HiME/Otome sections.Indeed, is this exactly why the posting rate has dropped so much? I myself found less initiative to post.
Kikaifan
2006-08-15, 18:31
At least we have a subforum. I feel sorry for the Rozen Maiden guys with their 600-page thread...
You know the human butterfly effect.... 80% are always onto the "next fad".
Seriously.. there's just not a lot to say outside of the novel thread until we get some news of future Haruhi animation or the DVDs come out and bonus material can be hyper-analyzed (or even, dare I say, *changes* to the episodes?)
The Rozen Maiden thread didn't become 600 pages overnight, it took time, dedication, and lots of fan love. I mean, it has only been what? About a month since TMoSH ended? I know I'll still be checking in here on a regular basis, especially since most of the threads in here are under my thread subscriptions.
The Rozen Maiden thread didn't become 600 pages overnight, it took time, dedication, and lots of fan love. I mean, it has only been what? About a month since TMoSH ended? I know I'll still be checking in here on a regular basis, especially since most of the threads in here are under my thread subscriptions.
We can always "pull an America" and flood the boards with sexy, sensationalistic material to keep the viewers hooked.. :D
Anyways, I'd gather that the novel translations will keep the posts going for abit. If the second season arrives, the thread will re-explode.. wonder how many of us will still be here though : o
Catgirls
2006-08-15, 22:07
Indeed, is this exactly why the posting rate has dropped so much? I myself found less initiative to post.Sorry about that guys. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/Mousefinger/Misc/sad.gif
Kikaifan
2006-08-15, 23:41
The Rozen Maiden thread didn't become 600 pages overnight, it took time, dedication, and lots of fan love. I mean, it has only been what? About a month since TMoSH ended? I know I'll still be checking in here on a regular basis, especially since most of the threads in here are under my thread subscriptions.
All the more reason why they should have a subforum, and we should be glad that we aren't constrained to a single thread.
Kaioshin Sama
2006-08-16, 08:30
You know the human butterfly effect.... 80% are always onto the "next fad".
Seriously.. there's just not a lot to say outside of the novel thread until we get some news of future Haruhi animation or the DVDs come out and bonus material can be hyper-analyzed (or even, dare I say, *changes* to the episodes?)
Which I believe, but may be wrong, is Zero No Tsukaima. Whether anyone will even talk about this show in 5 or so years remains to be seen, it'll surprise me if they do though, most people will have full-time jobs or be supporting a family by then. Also a new more popular show will be the talk of the town by then, and I'll still be watching stuff from the 70's and 80's probably.
CrowKenobi
2006-08-16, 08:43
Which I believe, but may be wrong, is Zero No Tsukaima. Whether anyone will even talk about this show in 5 or so years remains to be seen, it'll surprise me if they do though, most people will have full-time jobs or be supporting a family by then. Also a new more popular show will be the talk of the town by then, and I'll still be watching stuff from the 70's and 80's probably.If five or so years, this show could be in its sixth season and the novels could still be going if the author hasn't had them graduate high school... :D
Shirobane
2006-08-16, 08:48
If five or so years, this show could be in its sixth season and the novels could still be going if the author hasn't had them graduate high school... :D
Please god no... as good as the series is, I'd hate for it to turn into one of those Sunrise-scale "milk the cow until it turns blue" campaigns.
CrowKenobi
2006-08-16, 09:21
Please god no... as good as the series is, I'd hate for it to turn into one of those Sunrise-scale "milk the cow until it turns blue" campaigns.Good point, though I'd think that Nagaru Tanigawa wouldn't allow that to happen. ;)
8 novels aren't enough, it isn't very long as well.
Shana has 13 novels right?
If 8 novels covered one school year, 3 years = 24? I'm fine with it lol
The possibilities in this story is unlimited, there's alot of potential for development.
Hmm... but most of the chapters in the novels are standalone short stories. The first season had the entire Vol. 1 as its' plot anchor. What would be the main focus for a second season then?
Vol. 2 as a season is on shaky ground, as it is basically the 'Making of Asahina Mikuru 00', but it would be ideal as an OVA. I would not consider it a good strategy to stretch it out over several episodes.
Vol. 3 is a collection of shorts. Good fodder for filler episodes, but not as a plot anchor. Actually... almost everything has been used from Vol. 3 in the first season. Only 'Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody' is left, which can either be used as background material in a future season, or as a OVA.
So how about Vol. 4? Aha, jackpot. The entire volume is continous. This is the volume that can be used as a plot anchor for a second season. Throw in Snow Mountain Syndrome from Vol. 5, Endless Eight, and Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody; and you have enough material for another 13 episodes, with Vol. 2 as an OVA.
Cheers.
Yes novel 4 is great for a 2nd season. And like you already mentioned, works well with all other major plot chapters.
CrowKenobi
2006-08-16, 11:07
Hmm... but most of the chapters in the novels are standalone short stories. The first season had the entire Vol. 1 as its' plot anchor. What would be the main focus for a second season then?
So how about Vol. 4? Aha, jackpot. The entire volume is continous. This is the volume that can be used as a plot anchor for a second season. Throw in Snow Mountain Syndrome from Vol. 5, Endless Eight, and Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody; and you have enough material for another 13 episodes, with Vol. 2 as an OVA. Yes novel 4 is great for a 2nd season. And like you already mentioned, works well with all other major plot chapters.Then the big question is: If we get a second season, would it be wise to structure the broadcast airing like the first season? Or, do Bamboo Rhapsody first, then the other short stories, finally ending with volume four's plot?
Hmmm I'm not good at coming up with plot arrangments lol
I'd like to see a random episode order still though, I trust that kyoani can pull off something great again. I wouldn't have Bamboo Leaf early in the show, but not the last episode as well, maybe the third or second last. Bamboo Leaf will give the audience a 'Naruhodo...'/'I see...' response lol
Endless Eight would be somewhere in the middle, I'm not sure where to put Snow Mountain though, but most probably between 2 chapters of novel 4.
Kaioshin Sama
2006-08-16, 12:55
Please no more random episode order.
Which I believe, but may be wrong, is Zero No Tsukaima. Whether anyone will even talk about this show in 5 or so years remains to be seen, it'll surprise me if they do though, most people will have full-time jobs or be supporting a family by then. Also a new more popular show will be the talk of the town by then, and I'll still be watching stuff from the 70's and 80's probably.
Then again ... people thought Lord of the Rings was a fad classic of the 1960s...
Not making that comparison yet ... but time will tell. There are a lot of classics that don't get talked about because they're so obvious and everyone knows them.
I'll point out its possible to have a job and family and still enjoy anime as a hobby. And its possible to like the old stuff and the new stuff (kind of like music).
Kaioshin Sama
2006-08-16, 13:31
Then again ... people thought Lord of the Rings was a fad classic of the 1960s...
Not making that comparison yet ... but time will tell. There are a lot of classics that don't get talked about because they're so obvious and everyone knows them.
I'll point out its possible to have a job and family and still enjoy anime as a hobby. And its possible to like the old stuff and the new stuff (kind of like music).
Hmmm... we will see I guess, good points.
The biggest problem with *any* series, book, or whatever having longevity is exposure. Any of these anime series ... for them to have longevity requires some critical mass of people being exposed to them and new blood discovering them.
Be it Moby Dick (not too many people can't at least ping on "Ahab and the White Whale") versus some masterpiece by Twain most people have never heard of....
The useful thing will be to watch Haruhi evolve in Japan ... outside in the rest of the world we're so marginal as to be just vapor. Assuming Kyo-Ani takes a couple of years to approach the subject again (after Kanon and Metal Panic?), will there be a surge or will everyone say "who?".
I'd be the last to deny there's not a chunk of Haruhi that isn't "marketing mana" (i.e. designed to attack market weaknessness) but, like, Star Trek or other cultural phenomenom --- there are core shards of very interesting stuff inside.
CrowKenobi
2006-08-16, 14:03
The biggest problem with *any* series, book, or whatever having longevity is exposure. Any of these anime series ... for them to have longevity requires some critical mass of people being exposed to them and new blood discovering them.And, of course, merchandising is at the forefront of this effort. As you pointed out, some series started out with a lot of merchandise, but still flopped. While Haruhi seems to be a merchandise poor series atm, its success seems to be more "word of mouth" than anything else, and that (and the novels, DVDs, and manga) will keep the show in the public's memory banks until Kyoani is ready to do season 2. :D
Well, because Haruhiism has so little merchandise, stuff gets sold out in no time at all and figure get sold at 3000 US dollars.
But I'm still thinking that Haruhi is too unique and affects too little audience, or I should say not many people are able to accept the show. This is for foreign countries, I'm sure Haruhi is doing really well in Japan.
Shirobane
2006-08-18, 11:14
Well, because Haruhiism has so little merchandise, stuff gets sold out in no time at all and figure get sold at 3000 US dollars.
But I'm still thinking that Haruhi is too unique and affects too little audience, or I should say not many people are able to accept the show. This is for foreign countries, I'm sure Haruhi is doing really well in Japan.
I'm sure word of mouth is doing its job around the world as it is in Japan (albeit at a MUCH slower pace). People just need to be exposed to the show and from then on, let them form their own opinions about it. The novels I found had a more specific audience than the anime which had more elements that a braoder number of people may like. So therein lies a good chance that a good number of people would at least enjoy some aspects of the show, or convert to Haruhiism regardless of where they're from. :p
At the very least, it's a damned good gateway drug into the novels.
10 because ive rarely enjoyed an anime more than this one, it might go down to 9.7 for only being 14 eps
No doubt: Perfect ten ! :)
Anaglyph
2006-11-07, 16:46
"Perfect 10"
Just recently watched it and was blown away. Never expected anything to challenge Marimite's place in my affections but these two occupy a spot significantly beyond any other anime I've watched.
The only way it could be even more perfect *wink* would be if my inner romantic was properly satisfied by Haruhi and Kyon fully crossing to the other side of a certain river in Egypt.
Yay, another victim of SHnY! Welcome. Strangely enough, one of my favorite eps is the "Day in the Rain" (anime only) that really kind of reinforces the bonds everyone has developed over the crazy year they just experienced. (you know, the episode that some critics say "nothing happened" in, where Kyon is sent to get the heater for the club :) )
Anaglyph
2006-11-07, 20:19
Yay, another victim of SHnY! Welcome.
Thanks. :)
Strangely enough, one of my favorite eps is the "Day in the Rain" (anime only) that really kind of reinforces the bonds everyone has developed over the crazy year they just experienced. (you know, the episode that some critics say "nothing happened" in, where Kyon is sent to get the heater for the club :) )
Yeah, lovely mood in that one, brilliantly evoked by the production. It's the episode that benefits most from watching the series in chronological order, in my opinion, as it serves as a really nice epilogue, and closing with the charming shared umbrella sequence gives Haruhi/Kyon fans hope for the future. :D
At the very least, it's a damned good gateway drug into the novels.
That is very true. After watching this series at least three times, I started looking around for the novels and the novel translations (huge props to the people at baka-tsuki for their continued efforts). After reading up to Volume 4, Chapter 4, I can't get enough.
Now, if they made a sequal or an OVA based on the other novels after ep14 or even novels/chapters that occured during the series (such as "Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody" or the "The Sighs of Suzumiya Haruhi") I think would suplement the series even further
anselfir
2006-11-08, 13:36
9.5+ but rounded to 9. Very enjoyable series that shows what people care about in a story is not that the story makes sense in a self-serious way but that it initiates interesting thoughts and has good moments.
Charmmy Kitty
2006-11-11, 09:09
I voted for 9 out of 10 because I don't think, that series are absolutley perfect.Yeah, I really find them great.I cannot understand one thing - why the episodes are not in time order?????
Pakxenon
2006-11-11, 16:48
I voted for 9 out of 10 because I don't think, that series are absolutley perfect.Yeah, I really find them great.I cannot understand one thing - why the episodes are not in time order?????
'Cuz Haruhi said so (she's God).
Actually, it's because the main story is only 6 episodes long, so they have to shuffle it to make the story extend for 14 episodes.
Charmmy Kitty
2006-11-12, 03:22
Pakxenon but it so stupid >_<
Yeah, Haruhi is a God xD
From a film making standpoint, showing the episodes "out of order" -- or in Haruhi order is an artistic decision to increase your empathy with Kyon's disorientation. Time-disorder (which includes flashbacks, reverse-order, etc) has been used by a few brave directors for decades to enhance the surrealism of a story or put the audience into the viewpoint of the protagonist.
"12 Monkeys" ... "Total Recall" ... are two examples where your disorientation of "when" or "where" is key to the story.
If you watch the old Twilight Zone series (the black and white one, eh?) -- there are a few short stories in there that play these sorts of mind games.
As was recommended a few pages back... it is entertaining to watch in aired order.. and then go back and watch it in "time" order and watch how the relationships evolve between the characters.
I'm currently watching it the second time, in chronological order now.
Giving it any rating below a "perfect 10" is just unforgivable. ;)
A 9.5 here :)maybe a 10 if there will be a next season...(and as good as it is)
I love the way it is ordered.... I think that's a right move by a genius :)
Quinn Mathis
2006-12-29, 23:29
I'm not sure I would give the series a "Perfect 10" or "Masterpiece" right off the bat, but I would give it a 9+ (around 9.5?). Great show of creativity and artistic expression (episode ordering, philosophical musings), very good character designs, a highly underrated score does make a strong case for a "Masterpiece" rating, though.
Overall, it was great, yet I don't think it reached a level of perfection. Rather dull color palette aside, it just doesn't feel or appear that way to me.
There should be a logarithmic scale to work with so that we can give it a 9.5 or a 9.9 .... "10" should be "infinite" so that you vaporize and become one with the Universe after seeing it :)
Re[Sublimity]
2007-03-02, 23:36
I loved it. Perfect 10. Even if the order of episodes was a challenge to watch by, I loved every random moment of the S.O.S. Brigade and Haruhi's outrageous plots. I loved the episode where we really hear Hirano Aya's beautiful voice. By singing in the School festival episode, 'I Lost my Music' and 'God Knows...' Simply loved it.
^ ^
kazune-kun
2007-06-08, 05:26
Animation: 10
Characters: 9
Voice Actors: 9
Story: 8
Theme Songs/Soundtrack: 9.5
GuidoHunter_Toki
2007-06-16, 11:08
10/10
I loved everything about it.
Tatsumiko
2007-06-17, 11:50
Animation: 10 :p
Story : 8.9
Music : 9
Characters :
Haruhi / 10 XD
Mikuru / 10 <3
Yuki / 8 (didnt liked the long storytelling in ep 04...cool powers though)
Koizumi / 6 (got sick of the "You and Haruhi" this and that)
Kyon / -90 (he can go straight ta hell)
The characters are designed perfectly, together they form the perfect crowd, yet each one is so unique, which always leaves you wanting to know more about them.
I was especially fond of Haruhi, but unlike most series, there was not one character I truly disliked, or even felt indifferent towards.
Characters: 10/10
The story starts off as a normal school anime, with focus on the eccentric Haruhi, but it turns out to be much much more. It also includes one of the boldest twists I've seen in anime, which certainly paid off.
Story: 9/10
The animation is perhaps the finest I have ever seen, or at least very close to.
I found it absolutely perfect, no complaints at all, purely beautiful, a work of art.
Animation: 10/10
The voice-actors did an excellent job, I loved everything from Mikuru's squealing and Haruhi's enthusiastic rambling to Kyon's commentaries and narration.
Voice-actors: 10/10
I also loved the approach the show took. Even though Haruhi was featured as the main character of the show, everything was shown from Kyon's point of view, with his insightful and humorous commentaries.
Originality: 9/10
In addition, the music was great, and the general "feel" always kept me in a good mood while watching, a truly enjoyable experience. I voted perfect 10, which I think the show deserves beyond any doubt.
Twisted Reality
2007-07-22, 21:05
I am not even going to bother with the idea that there can be anything remotely approaching an objective and mathematically defined criteria for rating video games, anime, movies or whatever. Numbered ratings are a stupid illusion based on non-existent criteria.
So that said, I'll just give this show a 10/10. It's not very easy to find shows that compare to Haruhi.
Haruhi proves to have a broad appeal multi-genre appeal and the actual humor used simply transcends tired cliches. (Loser protagonist accidentally peaks up a girl's skirt and then ends up hammered into the stratosphere.) And really, I'd rather anime not bother with humor if it's just going to resort to the usual tricks, or simply ends up being unfunny. Haruhi is just genuinely funny. You weren't always laughing aloud, but there were plenty of times when you were simply infected with amusement.
The attention to the setting and fresh camera perspectives also gave you the feeling that you were seeing something new. Not the deal-clincher, but it's better than seeing the same recycled pieces of otherwise bland background.
Haruhi has got plenty of philosophy without getting too heavy-handed and avoids degenerating into needlessly confusing introspection and contemplation. Kyon's beginning narration in episode two was also an excellent way to kick-off the show's mood and basic conflict.
The mystery, sense of wonder and novelty are all there too. Nothing actually is what it appears to be on the surface. The asynchronous episode-order adds to this and proves to be a great way to adapt the novels.
Is Haruhi perfect? Probably not. Personally, I find it near-impossible to find flaws with the show. To actually do so, I'd have to nitpick minor details and then subtract an arbitrary fraction from a perfect 10. Even then, I'd only be doing it to make it seem like I'm being objective. In all honesty however, I've found few shows that compare to The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. It's only 14 episodes long, but it's a well-done 14 episodes.
Twisted Reality
2007-07-25, 23:12
Animation: 10 :p
Story : 8.9
Music : 9
Characters :
Haruhi / 10 XD
Mikuru / 10 <3
Yuki / 8 (didnt liked the long storytelling in ep 04...cool powers though)
Koizumi / 6 (got sick of the "You and Haruhi" this and that)
Kyon / -90 (he can go straight ta hell)
Wait? How can you hate Kyon and Koizumi?
Kyon kicks ass. I actually sympathized with his pragmatism, sarcasm and apathy. You're not really aware of him because he's blinded to his own impact on the Haruhi universe. It's an observer bias, and you're seeing the world through it. Part of this bias is his futile attempts to sarcastically isolate himself from the insanities that threaten his "normal" high school life. (Haruhi? She's just some girl who dragged me into her life and ruined my reputation in the process.)
The thing is, Kyon doesn't *really* want a normal high school life. He wants to believe that he's put his childish things away, and just as he believed he was becoming a normal and mature adult, he meets a childish magical girl of all things. And he's transfixed. He's found something that actually breaks him out of his apathy and a life of academic toil and superficial friendships. And he lies to the audience about not wanting this lifestyle by covering it up with sarcastic internal monologues.
---
Koizumi also kicks equal amounts of ass because he's such a shifty character. He is attracted to Haruhi, as a boy is attracted to a girl. But he realizes that he doesn't have a chance with Haruhi and instead opts to watch her from afar and take care of her. Sadly, he's not even really her friend, just a trusted adviser. Koizumi is the one that keeps Kyon honest about his feelings towards Haruhi, and doesn't allow him to brush her off as being simply an insane girl and tries to get him to sympathize with Haruhi's emotions. One suspects that because he sympathizes with Haruhi, because of his job, he more than just knows her, he loves her. Of course, it can never be a romantic love.
Koizumi is always smiling, but that smile is something he puts on to do his job and control his emotions. He really has no choice but to become what he appears to be: Haruhi's toadie and a psychological counselor with a penchant for philosophy. And although he only has, at best, superficial relationships with the SoS Brigade, these are the closest things he has to a normal friendship. He's isolated from the Brigade, but still feels loyal to its members regardless. (If you've read the novels, you're not even sure if he's purposely losing those board games to Kyon. You can also see scenes in the anime where he's losing to Kyon.)
Koizumi also has a philosophical streak, which peels back more layers to show ever-deeper mysteries. Yuki's initial revelation may have been a big plot twist, but Koizumi also creates smaller subtler twists in the Haruhi universe. Not all of the possibilities he reveals are absolute truths, but instead serves to show that nothing is ever as it appears in the Haruhi universe. And this brings a great deal of mystery to the show.
Twisted Reality
2007-07-25, 23:20
double post -- again
That stupid back button on my mouse causes me too many troubles involving double posting.
mcruz1014
2007-08-05, 22:34
Animation: 9.5
While it didn't seem at all groundbreaking or revolutionary, the artwork and animation in this show were very excellent. As to be expected from Kyoto Animation.
Characters: 9
You'd be hard pressed to find more likable and quirky characters in any movie or television program. While a few of the characters seem to fall into certain anime stereotypes, they are all developed carefully and transcend those stereotypes at one time or another. I especially love the two protagonists, Kyon and Haruhi. All of the scenes between them are golden.
Voice Actors: 8
Don't know much about seiyus, but all of the characters are well cast. My only complaint was that Asahina was annoying to listen to sometimes.
Music: 9
Fun opening and ending themes. The tracks that played during episodes set the tone of the show well. The episode where Haruhi joins the band shows off Hirano Aya's vocal talents.
Overall: 9.5
I never read the novels, and being American, I was a little late to the Suzumiya Haruhi hype machine. Normally, I wouldn't bother to watch comedy anime like this, but the things I had heard and read in forums compelled me to watch. Needless to say, this show quickly became one of my favorites, and I cannot wait for season 2. The only thing stopping me from giving it a ten was the length of the series, and the broadcast order of the show (since I watched the show after all the episodes had been subbed, I was able to watch in chronological order, but I can imagine how watching the episodes on a weekly basis must have been for fans new to the series who hadnt read the novels)
Animation Quality: It's Kyoto Animation - Definitely 10!
Voice Actors: It gets a 9 here just because of Haruhi's voice actor.
Script: Though confusing at start when watched anachronically, it becomes understandable as you continue watching and you eventually fall in love with it. 10
Adaption from Novels: Somewhat changed the stories, but overall it's the same. 8
Editing: 10
Overall: 9,4 or approximiately ~9
Animation : 10
Voice : 10
Novels : 10
Everything else ;10
overall 10 its such a great show
The melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is undoubtedly my favourite anime of all time. I don't know what it did, but I agree it changes your life style.
I gave haruhi a 9, because for I, spent a good chunk of my life being super confused, watching episodes 1-8 in order. I felt it added unnecessary confusion, and really wasted my time.:(
Other than that, I really wish yuki as a character would have progressed a little more, because although she sort of developed a sense of humor (kinda)
and some sort of emotion, she still left an impression to me as lifeless.
That being said, she's still my fav character.
I really like how haruhi changed across the short 14 episodes, from depression to happiness.
Kyon, probably the most boring character ever, was a great character to throw into the mix,
and Koizumi always seemed to impress. The rest of the extras were a nice touch, but I wish we saw more of Tsuruya.(sp?)
Overall, it was a heck of a lot better than most of the anime I've seen, and I eagerly hope they don't close the book on haruhi after 14 short episodes.
Sun Shine
2007-08-21, 17:03
Animation: 8
Characters: 6
Voice Actors: 8
Story: 9
Theme Songs/Soundtrack: 8
Originality: 10
Enjoyment: 8
A very good anime that was really enjoyable. The only problem I had with the series was with the characters, I really liked the personalities and ideas behind Haruhi's and Kyon's characters but the other SOS Brigade members fell into steroetypes and personalities and actions were all too predictable which was a shame especially with a strong story.
OceanBlue
2007-08-26, 10:18
The melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is undoubtedly my favourite anime of all time. I don't know what it did, but I agree it changes your life style.
I gave haruhi a 9, because for I, spent a good chunk of my life being super confused, watching episodes 1-8 in order. I felt it added unnecessary confusion, and really wasted my time.:(
Other than that, I really wish yuki as a character would have progressed a little more, because although she sort of developed a sense of humor (kinda)
and some sort of emotion, she still left an impression to me as lifeless.
That being said, she's still my fav character.
I really like how haruhi changed across the short 14 episodes, from depression to happiness.
Kyon, probably the most boring character ever, was a great character to throw into the mix,
and Koizumi always seemed to impress. The rest of the extras were a nice touch, but I wish we saw more of Tsuruya.(sp?)
Overall, it was a heck of a lot better than most of the anime I've seen, and I eagerly hope they don't close the book on haruhi after 14 short episodes.
Actually, Yuki gains more a personality in the novels later on .
I know it's just opinion, but I don't really think Kyon's boring. His witty commentary and timely sarcasm really adds a fresh perspective to the story that, I think, would have made the anime a lot less interesting had it been taken away.
Well, I guess I'll rate this anime, since I haven't yet.
Animation: 10.
Personally, I found the animation in this anime to be top-quality [Kyoto Animation, of course]. Especially the concert scene, which in my opinion was [i]amazing. I can't really add more than that
Characters: 9.
I loved the characters in this anime. Each character, even the side characters, has their own quirks and personality traits that makes each interesting. The only problem I have with this anime is that the first season seems to, more-or-less, introduce the characters. I can expect more character development in season 2, of course.
Storyline: 8.
Basically, the same as the characters. The melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya seems to be an introduction to the Haruhi storyline. Although it seems to be an introduction, it was done brilliantly, and the final part of the story felt as if it was complete, although we all know by now that it isn't.
Sounds and Music: 9.
I loved the voices in this anime. Even the side characters' voices were well done, and they were able to hold interest even in parts where there wasn't any background music. The background music added the right touch of feel or personality to each scene [I really want to find the OST]. The music was interesting, yet managed to stay in the background. I loved the concert scene.
Extra:
It was a wise choice to air it out of chronological order. It made it all the more interesting.
Although I it'd probably average out to a 9, since I believe in the phrase, "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts," I'll give it a 10 [actually, a 9.5-9.8]. It's not perfect, but I loved it, and after around a year, it's still my favorite [and the animation quality still beats out the newer anime, which is amusing].
Edit: Hard to believe people rated it a 1. Either trolls, or they really, really didn't like this.
Raptor73
2007-10-03, 04:58
This series is currently my favourite series of all time. It completely amazed me how good it was. My first impression from reviews were "There is no way the series could be that good", oh how wrong I was.
Animation: 10/10
Superbly animated, down to the smallest detail.
Characters: 10/10
Each and every character was well-crafted. Even the minor characters had interesting personalities.
Story: 9/10
What could be more interesting than watching a high school girl create a club and run around looking for the mysteries of the universe? Not much, however I still prefer the novels.
Music: 10/10
The music was well used and did not dominate any one scene. The OP/ED songs were very catchy and had me searching for hours trying to find somewhere I could get them.
Overall: 10/10
I would recommend this series to anyone and everyone.
EternalDragonWarrior
2007-10-04, 15:45
10/10
It's the anime that made me an otaku, it can't get any better than that.
Kyero Fox
2007-10-04, 19:34
Perfect 10! I love this ANime and I think its full of win and God... I mean Haruhi ._.
Kyon is simply my fav character because hes like me in ways of Personality I don't belive in ghosts time travelers and all that such bull. But there has to be something else out there in the Univers
Haruhi is my 2nd fav female ANime character of all time X'D my #1 is hinata from Naruto
the English voice acters are PERFECT I couldn't think of any better VAs for them than the ones they picked .. thats why Im sticking to getting the complete english series on DVD.
ReizoSan
2007-12-01, 12:38
I am not sure if TMO: HS reaches the dizzy heights of 10/10 but it falls just bellow at 9.5 to me, The animation is very well done with great voice acting in the Jap and EVEN then English dub which i am shocked to say so but it's not that bad (watched a missing episode which was in english dub :p)
then the characters all have there unique parts which i like in an anime, i just hate characters who are just too alike in there personality.
the concept and story behind TMO:HS is really unique and is like nothing else that out there which to me is very refreshing, every episode had good moments and i never got bored of it at any moment, i would say if the TMO:HS season 2 is the same or dare i say it better then i would give the overall series rating at a 10. this is decently one of the best anime series in a while.
The Chaos
2007-12-01, 14:49
I give it ....9/10...Because It 14 Ep Too Short But Really Wonderful anime....
I hope I see The next Season SOON ........:D
jayfoxpox
2007-12-02, 01:38
10 because Yuki and haruhi's personality's are just so cute :D
CrazySunshine
2007-12-22, 22:47
7, it was average, at best, and rather entertaining. But IMO, horribly horribly overrated.
Prince of Chronics
2007-12-24, 03:43
I just recently finished watching the entire series in its broadcast order (great DVD's by Bandai btw)... I thought the entire series was very entertaining and had very likeable characters/interesting story. I also re-watched the show in its chronological order with English dubs and I found it just as good!
I took a gamble (bought the discs based solely on community opinions/reviews) and this was the first time I've watched an anime first via R1 discs instead of fansubs and I must say that I do not regret my purchases at all.
Simply put I just didn't like it. It wasn't funny and most of the episodes were simply boring. There were some good parts but they were few. I had to actually force myself to watch over half of the episodes, because it was so boring I didn't want to watch it. And when I finally reached the end I was very dissapointed. It really wasn't worth it, but at least I understood why the episodes were in "random" order and it made the series a little bit more interesting.
This series definetly wasn't for me but it has good animation quality and voice acting so I rate it 5/10 otherwise it would get only 4/10.
I'm very sure you didn't understand why the episodes are in random episode order, as well as 90% of the rest of the series.
40% goes for questions that weren't even answered in this season, only in the novels and would very likely be covered in season 2. 50% would be the questions in this season itself, that could be answered.
I would recommend you to read all of the episode discussion threads, then wait for season 2.
Ishtar Dark
2008-01-05, 16:13
Haruhi gets an 8 from me. The art was some of the most beautiful I've seen, and that's a big plus as it gives the anime a sheer artistic value. The out-of-order episodes presentation is refreshing. But while the story was cleverly satisfying (the characters being amusing and lively, especially thanks to the art), the anime is unfortunately too short. The side-stories are entertaining, but serve no other purpose, and they also accentuate how much of the anime is actually part of the storyline (a minority of the episodes).
I hope season 2 will be as good a Haruhi experience, though - just bigger. :)
I'm very sure you didn't understand why the episodes are in random episode order, as well as 90% of the rest of the series.
If I hadn't watched it all and understood it I would have rated it 2/10 or 3/10. Maybe I didn't understand everything but that really doesn't matter.
Reading the novels would probably make things more clear and they might be better than the anime, but it still wouldn't change my rating for the anime, because I would just rate the novels separately.
8 out of 10.
The serie is very confusing and I would've liked a actual line. Not Kyon and chronologic. Just 1 or the other. Confuses me. They should take example from other anime's on that..
Hypertaost
2008-01-19, 21:02
10 Because Yuki's awesome. Can't wait for the 2nd season since half of it is going to feature Yuki (I hope they make it a bit more romantic than the novel)
renegade_officer89
2008-01-20, 03:07
being an anime noob that i am, i rated this series a 10.perfect 10.damn it is good. in fact, the best i've ever saw.I watched the whole series +10 times over and over again until i memorized the scenes almost completely,especially ep10.the animation pics are the best,with mikuru looking super cute and all the characters do as well.the songs are great.I especially love God Knows...(you know...the one at the concert...1st song).Storyline?Confusing,but due to the number of times i've watched the whole damn thing, i have absolutely no problem to rearrange the episodes in my head.The 1st ep rocks!at first, i cursed my friend after the 1st ep,saying that this anime is stupid and all,but the 2nd episode and after just makes me stuck to my pc for the whole day.but after +5 times watching, i started to say that the 1st ep has it's own quality behind that stupidity.Hm...seiyus?Hirano Aya is top notch!! she just kinda absorbed haruhi into her own self and threw it out loud and clear.i didn"t understand why some people says that it is overrated.it is just good.full stop.
Takuto19
2008-01-23, 16:48
10/10 for me.
It just everything i like in a anime, great comedy, great characters and great story, hard to describe why it's one of my favoruits with the way it's done but it's just brilliant to me. Also good to rewatch them from time to time.
I gave it a 9. I'm a great fan of this series, for me it has everything: weird/randomness, interesting and engaging characters, some level of identification (sometimes I really feel like something Kyon said came straight outta my dictionary) and it has those emotional/psychological moments. The moments where Yuki shows that she's not just an alien but a girl too when Haruhi shows that she's not just all-powerful but a girl with a past too. The animations are great and the story engaging. I kinda like relaxing anime, so I can sit back and relax, but this one just sucked me in. I still don't really know if I'm that happy with it's hype, but I know what I like. I recommend this to anyone.
Gave it a 10 it was an amazing series xD.
7, it was average, at best, and rather entertaining. But IMO, horribly horribly overrated.
Agreed. I watched it in the times this show wasn't overrated. Liked it, no, LOVED it. But for some reason my love for this anime seems to be pretty decreased. Maybe because I don't like overrated stuff and all.
Irenicus
2008-02-01, 12:21
I voted 10. I enjoyed it that much, among other reasons.
Agreed. I watched it in the times this show wasn't overrated. Liked it, no, LOVED it. But for some reason my love for this anime seems to be pretty decreased. Maybe because I don't like overrated stuff and all.
Just ignore the buzz. >_< By letting that gets to you and lowering your own rating for the show, you're just as bad as those who rated it high just to be "in," only in an opposite way.
Triple_R
2008-02-01, 12:34
I think that part of the cause of conflict between the biggest fans of the show, and the critics of the show, is that there's something that perhaps both groups aren't seeing.
And that's that the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is incredibly unique in the type of story that it's presenting, and the kind of anime that it is.
It isn't easily pigeonholded into any particular anime genre, and even utilizes a story-telling approach and method that is rather novel for anime, and fairly unique in general.
Anime characters that are similiar to Haruhi power-wise/age-wise/gender-wise are Haruka (Noein), and Lain (Serial Experiment Lain), but both of those characters (and the series' that they come from) are much darker and less fun-loving than the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is.
Series that probably come the closest to The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya in character design, setting, and style are Lucky Star and Azumanga Daioh, but neither of those series' deal with the sort of philosophical issues or power levels that Haruhi does.
What the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya does exceptionally well is mix serious philosophy with dynamic fun, and it does this principly through the characters of Haruhi and Koizumi, and through the interactions between Kyon and Haruhi, and Kyon and Koizumi.
Hence, the anime is both intellectual and fun.
It is also a very character-driven anime, as oppossed to plot-driven.
A lot of anime fans, including myself, like dramatic plots with many twists and turns, and conflicts between cool protagonists and competent antagonists. We like shadowy villainous organizations (or large impressive empires), and strongly individualistic characters who strive to bring them down. We like explosive and well-choreographed fight/war scenes.
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya doesn't really have any of that (except for the Asakura/Yuki fight, perhaps), and that, sometimes combined with Haruhi's character, is one reason why critics are wondering why this series is so well-recieved - especially since it isn't a basic comedy like Love Hina! or Azumanga Daioh, either.
What the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya does have, however, is very unique, and people who see that, and like that, will naturally love the anime. I myself love the anime.
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is an exceptionally well-made show, and probably does as good a job as any other anime series at achieving what it sets out to do - and that is to explore philosophical issues, relational issues, and coming-of-age issues, within the context of a colourful cast of characters who are driven more by charisma and personality than by abilities and powers... but who have that too.
There aren't many clear-cut significant flaws in the anime, in my opinion.
My only personal gripes are that it might have been nicer if Haruhi had a touch more of a softer side, and I have to admit that Mikuru started to annoy me a bit as the series progressed. Honestly, Mikuru should know what she's stepping into when she goes to SOS Brigade meetings as per her mission from the future, and the getting massively upset every time Haruhi tries to dress her up in a new outfit started to annoy me a bit. Grin and bear it, girl - it's not that bad a mission compared to what a lot of soldiers have to go through.
Also, the anime can be very subtle, and you really have to go digging deep sometimes to fully appreciate all the elements to the characters, and story.
For example...
To truly appreciate the character of Haruhi, I think, you have to look beyond the outward eccentricity and take-charge behavior. The outward eccentricity and take-charge behavior is to draw your attention, and amuse you, but it's what lies behind that which is key, I think.
Haruhi's reaction to how well her ENOZ performance was recieved, how she came across on the two-part island vacation (such as how she showed sincere caring for Kyon in at least one instance), and some of the inner-most thoughts that she confided to Kyon... these are key elements of her character, and when you pick up on them, Haruhi seems a bit more... human, and multi-faceted.
All in all, the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is a very fun, amusing (I found the humour in it unique and cheerful too - it got more than a few hearty chuckles from me), thought-provoking, and well done anime. But because it's so unique, it's a bit of an acquired taste, I think. You really can't measure Haruhi against any other anime out there, because it's so very different from all of them.
The animation quality is top-notch, as is the voice-acting (in both English, and Japanese).
For technical merits, it may even deserve a 10/10.
For overall impact - for how appealing it is through out the anime fan community as a whole - it's probably a 8/10.
Speaking personally, there are a few animes I liked more than the Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, and none of them I'd give a 10/10 to, so I can only give Haruhi a 9/10. Still, it's one of my top 10 animes, no question.
I liked your points except:My only personal gripes are that it might have been nicer if Haruhi had a touch more of a softer side, and I have to admit that Mikuru started to annoy me a bit as the series progressed. Honestly, Mikuru should know what she's stepping into when she goes to SOS Brigade meetings as per her mission from the future, and the getting massively upset every time Haruhi tries to dress her up in a new outfit started to annoy me a bit. Grin and bear it, girl - it's not that bad a mission compared to what a lot of soldiers have to go through. The reason why Mikuru doesn't know what she's going into is very simple.
May be spoilerish:She's specifically chosen, as someone who knows nothing, can't do anything and is helpless. Why such an incompetent agent for such an important mission? Because ironically time travellers are people who do not have control over their future. They are controlled by time itself, Mikuru is there because the time plane states that she must be present.
Then she grows to become the confident and competent Mikuru(big).
And if you're wondering who's her 'commander'/'boss', who else knows of Mikuru's past better than herself? She's there because she knows that she has to be there.
Also despite looking like she has suffered, she actually had fun, probably the most amount of fun her life will ever have.Look forward to season 2 to find out the true role and purpose of Mikuru.
Triple_R
2008-02-01, 14:14
I liked your points except:The reason why Mikuru doesn't know what she's going into is very simple.
May be spoilerish:She's specifically chosen, as someone who knows nothing, can't do anything and is helpless. Why such an incompetent agent for such an important mission? Because ironically time travellers are people who do not have control over their future. They are controlled by time itself, Mikuru is there because the time plane states that she must be present.
Then she grows to become the confident and competent Mikuru(big).
And if you're wondering who's her 'commander'/'boss', who else knows of Mikuru's past better than herself? She's there because she knows that she has to be there.
Also despite looking like she has suffered, she actually had fun, probably the most amount of fun her life will ever have.
Look forward to season 2 to find out the true role and purpose of Mikuru.
That's interesting. It may have been hinted at in a Season 1 episode, but if so, I must have missed it. It does make Mikuru's reactions to Haruhi seem a lot more understandable to me.
I was originally under the impression that an organization like TSAB from the Nanoha animes had specially selected and trained Mikuru for the Haruhi mission, and... well, she wasn't handling it well. ;)
From what you've revealed here, though, that's not really the case with Mikuru. Thanks for the info!
I'm really looking forward to Season 2.
9.4/10
It's really, really, really overrated though. Sure... I loved it. Hell, I even know all the songs and the Hare Hare Yukai dance... But I must admit that it's overrated. It's not bad though, just overrated. For some reason.
What I liked was the plot, characters, comedy, acting, music and visuals. Everything flowed together nicely (even though it's in anachronological order).
The only 2 things I warranted a 10/10 to are Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai (sequal of first) and The Vanishment of Haruhi Suzumiya [light novel]
I'm not exposed to much internet fanboy/fangirl, but when I hear SuzumiyaHaruhi is overrated, I can quite confidently say: lies. Total friggin' lies.
Suzumiya Haruhi is to me, in many ways, the perfect anime.
This anime is great, but the way they put episodes randomly make me bored.
However, I love the art, the music and the story.
About those characters, at the first sight I like Haruhi, her personality is just awesome. And then I saw Nagato Yuki. I knew that this series is the best for me just because of her.
10/10 for Nagato Yuki.
Haruhi was the first anime I ever watched, and because of it, Im now interested in other animes, and manga as well, perfect 10 Haruhi, perfect 10 :cool:
Shinigami_Mello
2008-02-26, 17:57
I'm going to give it an 8, because it was a fun series and as usual with KyoAni, the animation was beautiful. But in the long run, maybe because of the lenght of it, I never got all too attatched to any of the characters. (Except maybe Yuki)
I didnt mind the shuffling of the episodes too much because it was something different and an interesting way to unfold everything.
But it was a lot of fun, so an 8 it is!
The show was just too unbelievably good. A friend of mine recommended it and I ended up watching all the episodes that day.
I gave it a 9 though because there was a few episodes like the island ones that I enjoyed but didn't find that amazing.
sosbrigademember
2008-03-21, 10:26
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
Just saying it makes you feel good. I gave it a 9 out of 10. I have never been so attached to a show like this before. I bought all the limited editions, and can't wait for season 2. I let my friends borrow the dvd, and now they all want it!
The characters are just great. Haruhi is so cool, and I wish I was her. Mikuru is the cute shy girl every anime needs. Kyon is the average joe, duh, and Koizumi is the cute one. Oh, and Yuki...I like Yuki too, even if she is quiet. Their's something about her.
I gave it a 9 because it is not my absolute favorite anime, Negima, but It really deserves a 9.
:);):D
~SOSBrigadeMember
ps. Even look at my account name, hehe
V33D12AG0N
2008-03-22, 10:09
I gave 10
I've never been so crazy about an anime since a long time ago... I guess the last time I felt so hooked on an anime was when I was watching Dragon Ball series when I was in elementary school. I talked it with my friends everyday at school, and draw pictures of Songoku etc.
Now, There's no a single day without watching AMV, seeking pictures, reading fanfics, posting in forums, etc about Haruhi!
Even I placed Haruhi's face as my wallpaper so that when I'm tired of working, I can see her face. She'll transfer her power to me so that my body feel warm and my brain can work better! :D (well, that's what she did to Kyon and didn't work, but it works on me!)
Watched it when it first got subbed, but didn't watch it again until I recently picked up the DVDs. I completely forgot how good this series is.
The Good: Animation quality, unique storytelling, Kyon as the narrator, Haruhi's ridiculousness, Mikuru Beam!, Hare Hare Yukai, and epic scenes (The kiss, the concert, the space game battle).
The Bad: Some of the episodes dragged a little bit in certain parts (usually involving a lot of dialogue or the Rainy Day episode). I didn't feel like it had a strong ending either, but season 2 is otw.
Series Rating: 9/10
Personal Enjoyment: 10/10
FuzzyWuzzy
2008-04-04, 14:53
Some of the things just didn't make sense.
Talking cat?
Computer girl and baseball bat stats? What's up with that?
Frog costume?
If I can give this show a rating, I would give it 19/10. Why?
The ED per episode is entertaining enough to give this series a rating of 10 per episode. The other 9 is for the story.
Kaisos Erranon
2008-04-04, 15:13
Some of the things just didn't make sense.
Talking cat?
Computer girl and baseball bat stats? What's up with that?
Frog costume?
If I can give this show a rating, I would give it 19/10. Why?
The ED per episode is entertaining enough to give this series a rating of 10 per episode. The other 9 is for the story.
Read the novels (http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi#The_Suzumiya_Haruh i_series.2C_by_Tanigawa_Nagaru) and that stuff will make more sense. The cat and the frog costume are from the as-yet-unanimated stories.
8/10 (Very good) for me. Strictly speaking I feel the anime merits a 7/10, but after watching it I went ahead and read all the books so I'm very fond of the characters now. The constant SHnY references in Lucky Star didn't hurt either.
Read the novels (http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi#The_Suzumiya_Haruh i_series.2C_by_Tanigawa_Nagaru) and that stuff will make more sense. The cat and the frog costume are from the as-yet-unanimated stories.
Shamisen's story was animated, just that they cut everything out and skipped straight to the talking. They cut out a lot of the story for episode 1.
CrowKenobi
2008-04-05, 18:27
Shamisen's story was animated, just that they cut everything out and skipped straight to the talking. They cut out a lot of the story for episode 1.Episode 1 was the movie itself!
Novel volume 2 covers the making of the movie with all the problems that entailed. :D
:cool:
TehSanity
2008-04-11, 13:34
Animation Quality: 9
Very good animation quality in general. However, nothing too spectacular that would give this a 10.
Voice Actors: 10
All the seiyuus were very good, fitting voices for a genki girl, alien, time traveller, esper, and an sighing ordinary human. Nuff said.
Script: 10
Not much to say here except awsomeness
Adaptation from Novels: 10
Followed the novels faithfully.
Editing: 9
Nothing to say here.
Overall: 10
Easily one of my favourite anime of all time.
Rising Star
2008-04-13, 21:59
I absolutely thought it was a brilliant anime.
Made me laugh a lot as well.
I don't really want to go into any major detail concerning my review of it, I'll just keep it plain and simple, basically everything good I've got to say as been anaylised in great detail (I must say) by a lot of the members on here. =]
Favourite Character: Yuki Nagato, I loved her because she's quite like me in many ways. :)
Favourite Episode: Sorry I forget what the episode number is, I think it's number 7, The one where the SOS Brigade join in on a baseball tournement.
Yes, the 2 parter island episode wasn't exactly amazing but none the less, very good anime series, I look forward to any future sequels.
10/10
The whole anime scene is inlove. I on the other hand just thought it was good but the not the greatest. 7/10 and yes that i didnt loose sleep from this, i have with others. Plus too many people worship this and that just interfers with my judgement.
I simply give it a 10. I see nothing wrong with it, and I loved every single second. No unlikable characters to be seen, either. And it was just the highest quality series I've ever seen (animation, voice acting, script, unique characters and the flaws of Haruhi, everything...).
Same feeling here. This anime didnt change my life but i find it really interesting and refreshing after watching so many animes. The plot, the characters and how is the story told was flawless. The part that i liked most was the concert in episode 12. From the scene when Enoz comes to the stage and the change of Kyion's face expression (ROFL) till the ending of the last song... Not sure how to explain it but it felt as the whole anime was summarized in those 2 songs. The lyrics were really meaningful.... i think i replayed that part over 10 times already lol
After finishing it and spent some time thinking about what was the thing that i liked most from this series, i found myself comparing my own life and everyday worries to the story of Haruhi. "Each one is the god of his own life and at the same time has the control of the worl surrounding him" would be some kind of philosophical conclusion but that is how i feel now. The melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya was life a representation of anyones everyday life including thoughts, feelings, dreams and wishes all together.
Tunafishisgood
2008-05-18, 17:02
>_< I gave it a 10 keep up the good work.
Quote from something that I saw
Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya is not just an anime, it's a gobal phenomenon.
since the story aims towards gobal domination by the SOS brigade anyways.
Man It was an awaesome anime Wish for season 2 soon
BlueRise
2008-05-30, 20:17
I rated it a 10.
Although the episodes aren't in order which makes it confusing, I think that it just makes this series very unique. :)
Don't press enter
2008-06-06, 20:40
:heh: I was the only one of my friends who didn't really enjoy anime before I saw this.
Perfect 10 for managing to successfully convert me.
At its best, Haruhi is my favorite anime fairly easily. I think Haruhi is quite possibly the best heroine ever created, a character I truly and honestly and genuinely love to love, and Kyon is--though I realize this to be an unordinary opinion--possibly the best villain narrator, a character I love to hate. (He didn't start off that way, incidentally; on my first watch I simply hated him on gut reaction, but as I rewatched and rewatched the show, I realized just how pivotal his role was. Everyone needs an obstacle, and for Haruhi, Kyon is it.) Episodes 1-5 and episodes 10-14 are indisputably 10s in my mind, or as close to 10s as any artistic work could hope to reach--and I say this as a usually-harsh person known for trashing well near everything I read or watch. <_< But this? Nah. Here's an anime that can switch from hilarious, somber, poignant, dismissive, realistic, and absurd in a span of three or four minutes and nail all of them perfectly, and actually more than that, where others struggle to hit even one of those notes in a full episode.
But then there's Haruhi at its worst. That stretch from episodes 6-9 wounded this series' momentum for me, with the island episodes being merely above average to me and the cave cricket episode only slightly better than that, and I outright hated Someday in the Rain. -_-; Not for the LOL, Let's Watch Yuki Reading sequences, actually, but more for the fact that effectively nothing happened. I don't mean literally nothing, obviously, but nothing new. The entire episode was mostly a retread of every element and every piece of character development the series had already established, or would be establishing in later episodes--and those other episodes dealt with the same material in much shorter timeframes, to boot. Yes, Kyon hates life, Yuki is quiet, Tsuruya has loads of energy, Haruhi comes up with fantastic schemes, Haruhi makes Mikuru dress up, and Mikuru puts up with it. (And Itsuki's a yes-man, but that was actually handled well in the episode with just a couple of lines.) I absolutely have nothing against long-winded storytelling, but I thought the episode was long-winded and redundant simultaneously, and that much is what I'm opposed to. :/
Anyway... While I hope this doesn't sound like too much of a fence-straddling position, if I averaged it out numerically I suppose I would rate Haruhi an overall 9--but I can't do that. The only other few series I can think of that I would remotely consider rating 10s may have had greater consistency, but for my money they only sporadically ascend to the fullest heights that Haruhi does. Besides: if episodes 1-5 and 10-14 were all we had, I would have given Haruhi a 10 for them alone, so I don't think it would be fair to drop my score by applying an average, particularly when episodes 6-9 are essentially perfectly-skippable side stories. It's not as if they contained crucial information that has to be sat through to get to the stuff I liked; they were just "extras," honestly. So, perfect 10 it is! :D
Kaisos Erranon
2008-06-21, 00:19
At its best, Haruhi is my favorite anime fairly easily. I think Haruhi is quite possibly the best heroine ever created, a character I truly and honestly and genuinely love to love, and Kyon is--though I realize this to be an unordinary opinion--possibly the best villain narrator, a character I love to hate. (He didn't start off that way, incidentally; on my first watch I simply hated him on gut reaction, but as I rewatched and rewatched the show, I realized just how pivotal his role was. Everyone needs an obstacle, and for Haruhi, Kyon is it.)
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the sheer power of Alternate Character Interpretation (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AlternateCharacterInterpretation).
:blink, blink:
Well that is different.
Mirrinus
2008-06-22, 03:10
Eh, I've heard so many different interpretations of the show that that doesn't really phase me much anymore, lol.
I didn't give it a 10, I don't think there's an anime out there that can achieve a 10 for me. But it is very deserving of a 9, even if just out of sheer quality. I did like the fact that the anime was short and sweet, but it left me wanting more.
On a personal note, I love these characters. Even if it's hard to follow at first, I love the story. And Hare Hare is legendary. This is still easily one of the best anime I've ever seen.
Here's to hoping season 2 is coming soon.
gigaloki
2008-07-25, 08:51
Episodes 1-14 : 10
Animation : 10
Voice Actors: 10
Script : 10
Adaptation from Novels : N/A
Editing : 10 (Even though Episode 00 intentionally had film mistakes xD lol it was a nice touch.)
i totally agree to you maam/sir.... you rate well... the anime is really that good and deserve a big round of applause xD :D
CinemaZebra
2008-07-25, 22:32
I probably shouldn't judge it until the second season but I liked it very much and gave it an 8. Definitely one of the best animes I've watched in a while.
Maho Momo
2008-08-08, 18:41
7, it was average, at best, and rather entertaining. But IMO, horribly horribly overrated.
Agreed, I also gave it a 7... it wasn't bad or anything, but I just don't really understand all of the hype over it. I mean the original light novels could be super awesome for all I know, but a lot of people just watched the anime and worship Haruhi based on that... that I don't really get since I watched the anime and was entertained but never really 'WOW'ed or anything.
I give Haruhi a 9.
I don't know what it was, but I got so addicted. I fell in love with the silly stereotypical characters. I started to love Haruhi's Mary Sue whining. But what stood out most was when Kyon and Haruhi kiss. People dislike the climax of Haruhi, and I could not disagree more.
Cool show.
anime ronin
2008-08-18, 13:58
8 outta 10. it was worth watching
CharlotteSerenity728
2008-08-19, 21:44
9/10
Fun, cute, quirky, and the cast is very lovable.
Odin-sama
2008-09-15, 10:26
9.8 / 10
This was the best anime I had seen since . . . well since forever!!
I hold back the 10.0 rating, just in case that ever do have a season 2.
wingzero_2000
2008-09-16, 15:38
I have a feeling season 2 is going to disappoint, :(
They usually do....
Kaisos Erranon
2008-09-16, 17:46
I have a feeling season 2 is going to disappoint, :(
They usually do....
Not if they follow the novels EXACTLY...
There are rare sequals that are superior to the originals.
Normally however this is done by having the first series/film/novel basically introduce the characters and give them something to do. The second series/film/novel tell the real meat of the story that the characters were invented for in the first place. This the first series/film/novel is basically a setup for the second to start with.
However there are other exceptions, even in anime: The second series of Space Battleship Yamato/Star Blazers is generally considered the best out of the entire series.
Gremilns 2 was probably better than the original movie, but then it also changed genre more to comedy than the original movie.
Some consider the Empire Strikes Back as the best of the Star Wars films.
Somw people dislike it because it changed the style and setting for all future productions, but Star Trek II is generally considered to be a whole lot more interesting than Star Trek the Motion Picture, and Star Trek IV is generally considered the one Star Trek film that pretty much anyone can watch because is has the most humor in it (also possibly the least actual sci-fi elements...since its based mostly in 1986 San Francisco...and themed on saving the whales).
So if what I read for the fourth Haruhi light novel is made like I think it will be made...the Disappearance of Haruhi will be as good, if not better, than the original series.
Kaisos Erranon
2008-09-16, 18:05
Vol. 4 is generally considered the best book, yeah... but that's because most of the fandom are insane Yuki fanboys. Not that it isn't fantastic for Kyon development and general awesome, of course.
Though, I personally like Vol. 7 the best...
Perfect 10, my only complaint is it was to short.
ShimatheKat
2008-11-13, 07:16
Basically, Haruhi's a winner.
As I may already said elsewhere, Haruhi is my current benchmark - for a 10, that is.
Everything is (about) perfect.
As a gaijin in Japan, if any work (Esp. anime) wants to base their story on a real place in Japan, they must really put in ALL the effort. CLANNAD did so well, and so did Haruhi (in fact, why CLANNAD only receives 9 for now from me is due to too little of the Fujibayashis.:heh:)
So here goes.
Animation : 10 (Kyoani for the WIN!)
Voice Actors: 9.5 (Kyon, get your sis out of the way... she reminds me of Sia from Shuffle!)
Script : 10 (For faithfulness to original - the author's gonna be proud of you guys at Kyoani!)
Other factors: 10
Total: 10+9.5+10+10=39.5
Avg: 9.87
kyon.haruhi.suzumiya
2008-11-30, 23:50
Perfect 10. Need I say more?
No, I don't. Not at all. Everything was perfect!
9/10. Loved the series and can't wait till the second season.
Perfect 10.
Haruhi deserves nothing less.
8/10
If it weren't for the absolute hype that was riding on this series when I watched it, it probably would've been higher. However I am susceptible to hype backlash, so I noticed stupid little things that ruined it for me.
However it would've been lower had I not discovered the crazy fandom and Seiteken.
KimmyChan
2009-03-26, 09:25
I give this series a 9/10 as I thoroughly enjoyed it :)
YohoBrook
2009-03-26, 22:12
9/10, it would have been a perfect 10 had it not been for KyoAni's constant mockery of the fanbase.
xxangelchanxx
2009-03-28, 14:16
7, Its a good show but really over-rated it's not THAT good.
Kid Ying
2009-04-06, 04:58
8/10
It's very entertaining, but not perfect. But i really love the characters.
Dark Lord
2009-04-07, 13:07
I gave it an 8/10. I really enjoyed the characters and story, but it isn't one I would rewatch.
If you rewatched it at least once, people who voted 7 will get 8, 8 will become 9.
I'm serious.
There's a reason why at the height of the show's popularity and when everyone's watching, that people gave it such high ratings.
Its because the show is almost impossible to fully grasp and understand by a single person on a single watch. It requires lots of rewatches and discussion to fully understand why this show is one of the closest things to perfection.
I give it a nine out of ten. It was one of the more enjoyable series I have watched recently. :)
Claymorez
2009-04-10, 18:50
I give it a 1/10, i dont like distorted plots...also there were only isolated concepts spread over the 13 episodes that never glue well together.
Clannad is much better imo...
Kogetsu Shirogane
2009-04-10, 21:40
Someone's gonna get chewed out :heh:
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