Higurashi Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[kj1980]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 15.

Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for RAWs.
Try to keep spoilers from the Game or Manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Game / Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.


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ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni
Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) before you ask questions!!!

Feel free to utilize the info on the TIPS section (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31732) as a complement to this series.

Feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting.

I am designating Sushi-Y and Freakman to lead the discussion in the correct path without spoilers as they have played the game in advance. I put confidence in them that they will recognize a member has spilled the beans too far if any other members has begun to play the game.

SPOILERS FAR ADVANCED THAN THE CURRENT AIRED ANIME EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS INCLUDES THOSE IN SPOILER TAGS!!!. People tend to peek at spoiler tags; especially when they do not know such tag is meant for the episode, only to find it spilling the beans too far advanced in the game storyline.

[Freakman]

Very good episode in my opinion. It detailed the DaiSaigai a bit more, and gave some more hints. It should please all those dissatisfied with the Tatarigorosi ending.
2 eps were more than enough indeed. Nothing necessary was left out (that I can remember)

[Sushi-Y]

Very good episode in my opinion. It detailed the DaiSaigai a bit more, and gave some more hints. It should please all those dissatisfied with the Tatarigorosi ending.
2 eps were more than enough indeed. Nothing necessary was left out (that I can remember)
It'll take a lot more than this to fix my disssatisfaction with their handling of Tatarigoroshi-hen.

I almost thought they were going to skip Rika's plead for help (which would've been the last straw). Turns out they just chose to show it at the very end, thank god.

To be honest, Himatsubushi-hen is a chapter with very few events, but a lot of minor details. This is why the anime can get away with a better impression this time around, because even with all the minor details gone (Akasaka's mahjong power, for example), as long as all the important events and scenes are covered, it's enough to make the game players go "yeah, that's pretty much what it's like".

Still, they skipped a few scenes that would've been nice to have. This episode, for example, skipped the scene where Oishi and Akasaka drove past all the protesters at the dam site.

Also, the phone line thing was a lot more nerve wracking and tense in the game (because of all the portrayal of Akasaka's nervousness as he ran about the village looking for phones, plus the time restraint that he was under), whereas the anime didn't really explore the fact that "someone has been cutting all the phonelines across town". It was one of the few suspense elements in the chapter, so I'm surprised they didn't bother to do anything with it.
Overall, the episode was "good". It's nothing great, but still a lot more composed compared to the other episodes. Luckily, the sakuga quality didn't waver much this time around, so the atmosphere was preserved nicely. Rika's confession was the highlight of this episode.

Next week is finally the beginning of the answer arc. For some people (Mion/Shion fans, especially), Meakashi-hen was probably the most impressionable chapter of the game. Many famous lines and scenes came from Meakashi-hen as well.

The answer chapters, in general, are much longer than the question chapters, with a lot more contents and developments... In other words, it's much harder for the anime to cover them properly.

The game's contents (musics, menu design, etc.) were completely "renewed" when we entered the "Kai" (answer) chapters, let's hope the anime can do the same too. :heh:

[Freakman]

The game's contents (musics, menu design, etc.) were completely "renewed" when we entered the "Kai" (answer) chapters, let's hope the anime can do the same too.

Yeah sure in one week :D

[Sushi-Y]

Yeah sure in one week :D
Hence the :heh: ← my sarcasm icon

I'm not asking much, only a relatively coherent storyline without those stupid attempts to make every little thing scary (I hated it when they had to distort the characters' faces in a freaky way every time they have an "emotional" moment, be it anger or sadness or fear). I don't mind them skipping things either, but at least make sure that what is portrayed remains faithful to the game. All of these can be easily done if they had a competent director and script writer.

A new OP and ED would be cool. :heh:

[MarmoO]

My Japanese is poor, so I might have missed something, but I have a question – almost whole last part of this episode was coherent with Tatarigoroshi, except the fact that Oishi is there. May it be that those events in last part of Himatsuboshi happens in different timeline, where Oishi didn’t investigated Hinamizawa/didn’t find anything suspicious enough to erase him at that time? Or him being on “missing list” was just a misunderstanding?

About episode, it’s a shame Oishii wasn’t given a chance to show how cool he is also it’s sad they cut off scene with Akasaka and Mion :/. All I can say is manga version is tenfold better, but I still liked this episode. 8.

[LostBlue]

in short all the chapters are "different" from each other but all the "constants" are the same :)

For no paticular reason I like Himatsubushi Hen. Rika is just awesome on many different levels, and I like Akasaka (although he still needs a kick in the shins :p ). I liked how Studio Deen did "Rika." At first it took me by surprise but later on I realized something I never noticed in the 次回. Good job there!

anywho, Meakashi Hen きゅんきゅん☆

[USCPharmacist]

I just wonder what if the reason Rika knew the future was because, she actually had seen them before...A.K.A Ground Hog day....

[Blue_Mercy]

I was actually really disappointed with this episode. For several reasons:


1.They only left two bodyguards on the kid.
2. Oishi and Akasaka managed to find the house so easily.
3. Akasaka managed to make it out alive.(I know that seems wrong but come on they instead killed his wife who was pregnant. That was no accident definitely Oyashiro-sama)

[LostBlue]

yea, this is one thing they did not portray in the anime. In one of TIPs for this chapter, Oryou felt "sorry" for the kid and felt that 4 days of torment was "enough."

Also the wallet was planted. The culprits wanted the kid to be found.
It was too good to be true. First thing, Akasaka called the Tokyo Dentist Office where the patient registration card was from and confirm it was Toshiki's. Oishi however found this call troubling. The person they call answered Akasaka's questions too quickly, meaning she did not look up the information being asked. It was as if she was excepting the call. Also where the wallet was found was suspicious. Even though the place is a ghost town a portion of it still is on the way for some villagers' work place. However they travel this path by car. Meaning the person who found the wallet convienently stopped his car and noticed this small object.

Concerning the house... Oishi knows the area really well. When he saw Dr. Irie he immediately knew he was coming from a direction that was not common. After Dr. Irie left he went in that direction knowing that the only building in the area is a store house which was rarely used. oh btw the kid didn't conveniently become in pain. He faked it knowing he can use his recent surgery scar as an excuse to call someone to the area or be taken else where.
[/QUOTE]

[Alpha123]

I….I just don’t know what to believe anymore. *sigh*

Up to now I have believed that Oyashiro-sama was some evil deity that required sacrifices to calm her anger and was behind the event that happened in Hinamizawa, I was so sure of it. But now...now after seeing this episode I’m beginning to see how I was wrong to believe this. Just seeing how Rika tried to get Akasaka to go back to Tokyo so his wife wouldn’t die and her trying to keep Akasaka from becoming sad changes my view on what kind of god Oyashiro-sama really is. I guess I should have believed when Rika said that “…………Oyashiro-sama is not an evil god. (http://www.makenaidesuwayo.com/2006/06/19/higurashijewel-omake1/)” She would be the one person that would definitely know what her own self is like, right? Theory making sure is getting hard for me now. And here I though that being in the supernatural camp would be making it easier.

I feel really sorry for Rika as well, it must be hard for her to live when she knows everything that’s going to happen and yet it's like she can do nothing to change it, just like with Akasaka’s wife. It was especially depressing for me when she says she doesn’t want to be killed and how she just wanted to live a regular life. Just like Akasaka, I don’t get how she can just acknowledge her fate like that and not even try to challange it…Poor Rika.

[Deathkillz]

I was actually really disappointed with this episode. For several reasons:


1.They only left two bodyguards on the kid.
2. Oishi and Akasaka managed to find the house so easily.
3. Akasaka managed to make it out alive.(I know that seems wrong but come on they instead killed his wife who was pregnant. That was no accident definitely Oyashiro-sama)


when did his wife die? O.o
very confusing ep...hmm was Rika posessed when she freaked out on Akasaka?

[Blue_Mercy]

when did his wife die? O.o


She always went up on to the rooftop of the hospital then fell down some steps

[Deathkillz]

^ yh but that wasnt shown in the anime yet or did i miss it being sed?

[Blue_Mercy]

Yeah it happened at 15:00 during the Raw version.

[Matrim]

Nice episode and I so can't wait for the answer arcs.

Call me unreasonably stubborn but I will persist with believing in a non-supernatural explanation. Rika could have just heard the plan which required exactly these people to be killed every year. And she might have a great acting talent to pull off Oyashiro-sama's voice or maybe multiple personalities or whatever. Yes, I know, it's a very weak argument. :heh:
Why the hell didn't Ooishi or Akasaka shoot when the bad guys started running away? It's not as if people would have believed the criminals considering the policemen had found the kid with them. And how did Ooishi survived the disaster that killed everyone in Hinamizawa?

[kj1980]

Nice episode and I so can't wait for the answer arcs.

Call me unreasonably stubborn but I will persist with believing in a non-supernatural explanation. Rika could have just heard the plan which required exactly these people to be killed every year. And she might have a great acting talent to pull off Oyashiro-sama's voice or maybe multiple personalities or whatever. Yes, I know, it's a very weak argument. :heh:
Why the hell didn't Ooishi or Akasaka shoot when the bad guys started running away? It's not as if people would have believed the criminals considering the policemen had found the kid with them. And how did Ooishi survived the disaster that killed everyone in Hinamizawa?


Under Japanese law, policemen can't shoot at criminals running away unless they have a "clear and consise" intent in harming another person. Just the same with SDF forces who cannot fire unless fired upon, UN peacekeepers who can't fire their weapon unless the hostiles fire first, etc. etc. Basically, it's just B.S. codes of conduct.

[hoon]

And how did Ooishi survived the disaster that killed everyone in Hinamizawa?


I found that to be peculiar as well. Reading the TIPS thread on episode 13, it is said that Oishi went missing during the investigation. However in this chapter, Oishi has "retired" and is living with his mother in Sapporo. @_@;;;;;

[LostBlue]

Call me unreasonably stubborn but I will persist with believing in a non-supernatural explanation. Rika could have just heard the plan which required exactly these people to be killed every year.


When I played the game, this chapter strengthen my views on the logical explanation camp. Akasaka really goofed in several places. If some things were a bit more sublte in the anime for this arc, I think more people will have a tougher time deciding (ie there was no wind controlling Rika, and I didn't imagine "Rika's" voice to be that different just quieter, more resound - although I do like it).

Here's a two facts to consider:
1) Mion's father is rumored to be a very powerful Yakuza leader and had an idea who Akasaka was

2) Akasaka goofed twice. 1st he mentions that he was on vacation yet he leaves his wife about to give birth during this time. 2nd his abet argument to do the "right" thing legally at the footsteps of the Central HQ of the Resistance.

In the game he makes a 3rd goof. He mentions that this was a planned vacation to tour the scenery around the village, yet he "forgets" to reserve a slot for this tour.

3) Rika specifically mentions Satoko's parents were "killed" but official reports say they just slipped.
Yukie, Akasaka's wife, also slip coincidentally falling at a bad angle. Was this really just by chance?
The nurse knew her habits.

--
Yes, I am messing with your minds. :)
Take or leave these facts as they may or maynot be important.
But they are what swayed my opinion at this time in the chapter. :p
--


And she might have a great acting talent to pull off Oyashiro-sama's voice or maybe multiple personalities or whatever. Yes, I know, it's a very weak argument. :heh:


Logical Camp Argument
(This does not contain my views or knowledge on future chapters).
Rika is obviously scared. She can't trust people in the village. Even the the people she can, her closest friends, don't have the ability to save her. Akasaka does, but will he believe in such a crazy story? Especially when Rika will not be killed for years? Maybe it was the only way that she thought he will believe her... by scaring him, deeply ingraining the Oyashiro-sama's Curse in his head, hoping he will remember this in years to come. And it worked. Akasaka was deeply stunned by this...

Question: Why did Akasaka not come back in 1983?
Reason: the Sonozaki's pressured the local government/police force to stop publicizing these bizarre incidents to protect the image of the village and its citizens from harassment from fantatical magazines (this is an established fact in the game, I believe in various TIPs upto this point). To Akasaka living in Tokyo, he only heard of the first two ~ three of the incidents if he even followed the events in that area. So you see, indirectly, the Sonozaki's stop all outside influence in the later half of these murders.


Why the hell didn't Ooishi or Akasaka shoot when the bad guys started running away? It's not as if people would have believed the criminals considering the policemen had found the kid with them. And how did Ooishi survived the disaster that killed everyone in Hinamizawa?


My understanding is (and I could be wrong), an officer of the law cannot fire his gun unless he is directly is threaten. If the Suspects are running, they definitely aren't threatening him. If he fired, ballistics will show he shot them from behind (not good). Oishi is looking forward to that retirement (especially important to him at this time as those murders yet to take place). Akasaka was shot in the arm, virtually making him useless in the chase. If Oishi was to chase after them, he would have to face both guys on his own. One of them, he knows can fight really well. The odds were not in his favor. Plus he's old.

How did Oishi survived? Maybe he was out of town at the time. There's no definite answer to that. But if he was in Hinamizawa at the time, he would have died.

Just like the previous chapters, this is just one of the many possibilities what could have happen in the world of Higurashi. What's important is to string the constant shared information throughout and compare them to the variable events/information to see the light in this mystery.

[BakaOnna]

Wow, what an episode. This series makes you believe one thing, then completely turns it around. I have no idea what to think anymore.

The second half of the episode was really interesting. It does seem as if Rika as prophetic powers of some sort and can see the future. It also seems as if Keiichi never existed in this arc since there was no mention of a survivor from the gas explosion... or maybe he died with the villagers.

I feel really bad for Rika. She can see all this happening but can't do anything about it. Poor Rika.

[SpaceDrake]

I'm... obtaining... the episode now, but remember that this particular Scenario occurs years before the setting of the other Scenarios, so both Keiichi and Rena are not anywhere near Hinamizawa at the moment.

[Matrim]

I found that to be peculiar as well. Reading the TIPS thread on episode 13, it is said that Oishi went missing during the investigation. However in this chapter, Oishi has "retired" and is living with his mother in Sapporo. @_@;;;;;

The question is whether Arc 4 is in an alternative reality to Arc 3 (Tatarigoroshi-hen). If yes, Ooishi might have already retired when the disaster struck. If not, he was missing at the time so presumably he was in some other place or had a means to survive the spread of the volcanic gas because he knew it would happen. If it's not an alternative reality then it's very weird that Rika was killed in exactly the same way in both arcs and the disaster was the same.

I don't know if it's mentioned in the previous tips but this time it was said Rika was drugged before being murdered which makes the version of K1 suddenly losing it and killing her quite unlikely (if it is the same universe and not an alternative one in which she was killed in a similar way, that is).


My understanding is (and I could be wrong), an officer of the law cannot fire his gun unless he is directly is threaten. If the Suspects are running, they definitely aren't threatening him. If he fired, ballistics will show he shot them from behind (not good).

Well, I didn't mean Ooishi should have killed them, more like wounded and arrested them. Still, I see why he chose not to do it. But if the deal had been struck beforehand Ooishi could still have been in the conspiracy and might have just pretended to help Akasaka. What I don't get is why that minister didn't change his mind when he got the kid back and didn't give a green light for the dam project.

[Sushi-Y]

I found that to be peculiar as well. Reading the TIPS thread on episode 13, it is said that Oishi went missing during the investigation. However in this chapter, Oishi has "retired" and is living with his mother in Sapporo. @_@;;;;;
I believe, for Himatsubushi-hen, Oishi had a stomache problem or something, so he wasn't around for the investigation (of Tomitake+Takano's death) like he was in Tatarigoroshi-hen, and that spared him from "disappearing" like he did in that chapter.

The only important thing to know about Oishi and Akasaka's reunion in 1985 (2 years after the gas disaster) is that they "survived" the whole ordeal, yet they still cannot forget the events that happened in Hinamizawa, even years after the gas disaster.

The anime didn't cover this, but the ultimate goal of Oishi and Akasaka was to release a book detailing all the events that happened within the village of Hinamizawa surrounding the mysterious death incidents. For Oishi and Akasaka, it was their way of apologizing to Rika, and getting their plead out into the world, hoping that someone out there can discover the "truth".

The book was named "Higurashi no Naku Koro ni"


The question is whether Arc 4 is in an alternative reality to Arc 3 (Tatarigoroshi-hen). If yes, Ooishi might have already retired when the disaster struck. If not, he was missing at the time so presumably he was in some other place or had a means to survive the spread of the volcanic gas because he knew it would happen. If it's not an alternative reality then it's very weird that Rika was killed in exactly the same way in both arcs and the disaster was the same.

I don't know if it's mentioned in the previous tips but this time it was said Rika was drugged before being murdered which makes the version of K1 suddenly losing it and killing her quite unlikely (if it is the same universe and not an alternative one in which she was killed in a similar way, that is).

The universe is always the same, the only difference is the events that may or may not occur in them.

Rika was drugged to sleep before she was killed. In other words, she was alive when the murderer watanagashi'ed her. This was confirmed by police autopsy.

[kj1980]

If not, he was missing at the time so presumably he was in some other place or had a means to survive the spread of the volcanic gas because he knew it would happen.

And yes, the anime missed another minor detail:

Oishi: "I had a stomach ache and took a day off from the investigation right before that fateful day."

That's the difference between how Oishi survived in Himatsubushi, but was listed as missing in Tatarigoroshi

[SpaceDrake]

Hmm. Having watched the episode, I'm now curious myself: do we have a death list for the Disaster as portrayed in Scenario 4? Kei is never explicitly mentioned as a survivor.

[Killer Loli]

Could Akasaka's wife be considered the first victim of Oyashiro-sama's curse and not the construction site manager?
On a side note: i really teared up in this ep when his wife died, did oyashirou really have to to go out of his way to get her all the way in Tokyo?

[MarmoO]

Could Akasaka's wife be considered the first victim of Oyashiro-sama's curse and not the construction site manager?
On a side note: i really teared up in this ep when his wife died, did oyashirou really have to to go out of his way to get her all the way in Tokyo?


Really don’t think so, it was more like Oyashiro, or rather Rika wanted to save his wife and didn’t want him to be sad. Why didn’t she say what will happen exactly? Maybe she knew Akasaka won’t believe her or she only knew that something bad will happen if he won’t go back to Tokyo (we know her prophecies aren’t perfectly accurate, well if she knew who will kill her own self, she surely would be able to do something about it). And really, I don’t think that Oyashiro would be powerful enough to influence people who have never been in Hinamizawa. Oyashiro isn’t an omnipotent good, he can’t even do anything about “his” own death (or rather Rika’s), also all deaths which are supposed to by Oyashiro's work were planned long before they happened (interesting is that Rika didn’t mention Tomitake and Takano, let’s not forget what was in Takano’s van in Tatarigoroshi), I think what Rika said indicate that it was human’s work (let’s add to it what Takano said, when she first time met Keichi in Tatarigoroshi).

[hoon]

I believe, for Himatsubushi-hen, Oishi had a stomache problem or something, so he wasn't around for the investigation (of Tomitake+Takano's death) like he was in Tatarigoroshi-hen, and that spared him from "disappearing" like he did in that chapter.

The only important thing to know about Oishi and Akasaka's reunion in 1985 (2 years after the gas disaster) is that they "survived" the whole ordeal, yet they still cannot forget the events that happened in Hinamizawa, even years after the gas disaster.

The anime didn't cover this, but the ultimate goal of Oishi and Akasaka was to release a book detailing all the events that happened within the village of Hinamizawa surrounding the mysterious death incidents. For Oishi and Akasaka, it was their way of apologizing to Rika, and getting their plead out into the world, hoping that someone out there can discover the "truth".

The book was named "Higurashi no Naku Koro ni"


Can't believe the anime left out that whole chunk. That itself would've made this episode a lot better for me (even though I am somewhat satisfied with this chapter's anime adaptation than the last one). Oishi's character is really mysterious and my opinion of him changes every chapter.


Onikakushi-hen: A really nice cop who wanted to help K1 out (or the only "good guy").
Watanagashi-hen: Not much different from the Onikagushi-hen.. but seems like he has more motive and wanted to use K1 to get to the Sonozaki family.
Tatarigoroshi-hen: Biggest turning point. The "bad cop". Actually had a real big suspicion that he was somehow involved in the whole Oyashiro-samas curses.
Himatsubushi-hen: Thought he would be like how he was in Tatarigoroshi-hen. Also made me think that he would use Akasaka like he did with K1 in Watanagashi-hen. The book thing with Akasaka really threw me off now and I don't know what to think of him.

[BakaOnna]

There's something else strange about the whole dam construction and the murders that followed.

The Minister stopped the dam constuction, but the murders didn't start until a year after he stopped the dam construction. Doesn't that mean that all of it was premeditated?

[Guido]

And things to consider a bit of reflection.

First when Toshiki Inukai was found and retrieved safely by Akasaka and Oishi.

1. Oishi says that a scandal will ensue afterwards.
2. He also says there's going to be needed a scapegoat.

3. However, what is it most relevant concerns the kidnappers. Oishi was a bit of shaken and suspicions explaining to Akasaka that the thugs were not amateurs but trained professionals.
Someone or a faction with resources that can afford pros under employment could have been secretly operating in Hinamizawa.

Could the Sonozaki family be that faction?, a branch having relations with that unknown secret circle?, or maybe it could just be plausible to assume that the Sonozaki family were giving hints as to the boy's welfare and shedding to light that they did not have anything to do with the kidnapping but implicating someone else did, of course, not giving away themselves?


Second, the analogy about the water's reflection and the moon casted by Rika's mature side.

Exactly, I did not get much of it, that's why I need to rewatch the episode again, however, this what I understood.
1. She ends her cryptic analogy that if she throws the pebble into the water and causes ripples, then her whole effort would not have become in vain.

In that last line could she have meant explaining each of the murders that will follow throughout the course of the next five years to Akasaka. If that's the case, then it makes sense that Rika did challenge her fate or attempt to challenge after all.
By passing the knowledge about what was coming up to Hinamizawa in the future, Rika averted the most infamous of all deads- oblivion, that is to be permanently forgotten.
At the epilogue to Himatsubushi-hen, Akasaka cannot shaken off his experiences about Hinamizawa and neither Rika. He took the chance to talk Oishii about it, and the former inspector also became immersed in the topic; Oishii wanted to solve the murder mysteries before his retirement but due to the gas explosion that occurs in this scenario will never happen.

If it was Rika's last wish to leave her legacy on someone else, then I could interpret that Rika did not want the mystery remain hidden and eventually forgotten, neither things at Hinamizawa ended just like they did in the last question arc.


What relieves me most with a sense of joy....

... was that Akasaka's child survived to be borned and lived to grow-up by her father's side.

My mood went down the drain when learning that Akasaka's wife passed away, falling off the staircase on a position that threatened the baby's life.
She was a very beautiful and charming woman that did not deserve that fate.

Had the child died too, then the whole arc would had devastated me.

[LostBlue]

1. Oishi says that a scandal will ensue afterwards.
2. He also says there's going to be needed a scapegoat.


In Japanese there is an idiom トカゲの尻尾切り (rough TL: A lizard cutting off its tail) which stems from the practice of lizards sacrificing their tail to a predator to save their own life. The idiom has a similar meaning, where an organization will cut someone as a scapegoat to save their rep. Oishi here is just wondering if the news of the grandson will leak, create a huge scandal, but even if it does the government will cover it up. That's all. I wouldn't read too much in that line.

[Matrim]

You know, after reading the TIPS for this epiosde my belief in the natural explanation was strengthened. With many villagers often expressing their belief that Rika is Oyashiro-sama's reincarnation, it's possible she herself had started to believe it, consciously or not, which would be the explanation for her Oyashiro-sama mode so to speak. The other option as LostBlue mentioned is that Rika deliberately made a scary prophecy as a means to make Akasaka remember her. The question then is - whose plan was that and how did Rika know about it? Maybe she does have prophetic abilities but that's the limit of the supernatural events in the story?

It's interesting that the kidnappers wear exactly the same type of clothes as the I’m guessing Higurashi is not much different. Rika is in the Whoopie role, knowing that she dies, and when she does, just loops back and starts over… so she tries a different tactic to avert death, failing each time. She’s also the only character to appear in all the arcs, so it makes more sense that she’s the real protagonist and not K1.people who chased K1 in the forest in episode 4. Not that these type is so rare but still it's an interesting peice of the puzzle.

[Killer Loli]

Really don’t think so, it was more like Oyashiro, or rather Rika wanted to save his wife and didn’t want him to be sad. Why didn’t she say what will happen exactly? Maybe she knew Akasaka won’t believe her or she only knew that something bad will happen if he won’t go back to Tokyo (we know her prophecies aren’t perfectly accurate, well if she knew who will kill her own self, she surely would be able to do something about it). And really, I don’t think that Oyashiro would be powerful enough to influence people who have never been in Hinamizawa. Oyashiro isn’t an omnipotent good, he can’t even do anything about “his” own death (or rather Rika’s), also all deaths which are supposed to by Oyashiro's work were planned long before they happened (interesting is that Rika didn’t mention Tomitake and Takano, let’s not forget what was in Takano’s van in Tatarigoroshi), I think what Rika said indicate that it was human’s work (let’s add to it what Takano said, when she first time met Keichi in Tatarigoroshi).

Rika or oyashiro had good intentions in this arc, she told akasak everything about the upcoming murders and even tried to get him to go back to Tokyo. Maybe i should've said oyashiro's curse rather than oyashiro/rika was the cause of this commotion...nvm. Can we treat the curse and oyashiro as seperate entities?

[Serenity85]

Just finished watchin the subbed 15 last nite and I think like most others that this arc is very important in solving the whole mystery, also explains why things go shitty when K1 arrives.



Supernatural...maybe

Although i do think theres rational explinations for all i can't help thinking theres some supernatural aspect. I think oyashiro is actually a devine god thats suppose to be protecting the village. Why? Rika (if she is the reincarnation) seems to know whats gonna happen to Akasaka's wife and is tring to push him to go back, also cuttin the phone lines was more to prevent him from gettin upset about whats happened back home, the guy's gone through alot plus she wants him to be in sound mind when she tells him about whats goin to happen over the next 5 years of course shes hoping that he will remember and come back to save her and the village. Of course that doesn't happen and the disaster hits.

So what about the curse?

This draws back to what I said about gods and demons. I think in the past the villagers thought of Oyashiro as a heavnly god who protects them, maybe she even existed, most likely an ancester of the Frudra family. However a demon appeared or was there to begin with (not sure), either a single entity who posses the heir of the sonozaki family to do its biding (hense they think they half demon) or the family was always half demons from the start (not as likely so won't dwell on it). This demon wanted to consume humans lives (fleash eater) but Oyashiro kept gettin in the way so the demon possessed the heir and committed horrible acts under the name of Oyashiro. This upsets the villagers who kill her however they don't want invoke the curse they still worship her. The demon probably continues quietly doing his work with no one to stop it until now. Jump to the present. Based on tips it would appear Rika fits the spot of reincarnation and slowly gains her powers but with no control over them. This prob awkaes the dorment demon who returns to seek out the new Oyashiro and it takes it 5 years to discover who she is hense the curse returns. Then if Rika knew then why she just take whats comin although it would appear she tried to save herself when she told Akasaka.

As much as I would love everything to be rational I think there has to be some supernatural aspect, at least as the underling motive to it all. It is possible Rika overheard the plans for the next five years but in rational terms that only answers the first three as most likely planned, Satoshi killin his aunt and Rikas death just don't seem to be that likely planned, plus she did say she would die a day or two after the festival which doesn't follow the curse at all. Plus where is Tommy's and takana's deaths if they were killed (at least tommy) by the same group then Rika should have know correct? Also wheres K1 he never gets mentuioned. My theories on that.

K1 is an enomily, a kink in the devine scheme. He's never mentioned in Rika death list which got me thinking. What if K1 moving to the village was all planned by Takana (she could be the true demon as I mentioned before) By having K1 there she can then feed information to him to get him to seek out the truth allowing her to kill herself and once again posses the sonzaki heir. This would also help explain why Rika dies. Through demonic intervention possesing Mion/Shion she finds out about Rika being Oyashiro from K1 and finally is able to fullfil the final curse on the entire village.

Doesn't have much to do with my theories just some interesting insit and the role of three. Just like in myths we have three groups that affect each other. Demons/Gods/Humans. Sonozaki Family (Demons) the have been in control of most of the town for a very long time plus they think there half demon. Frudra Family (Devine God) Crippled by the Demons, theres very few left to watch over the sacred temple plus it is there family that involes Oyashiro's reincarnation. The third family (don't know name cause they rarly seen or mentioned) (Humnas) This could also work with the villagers to. They are seen as the weakest family/ppl who are in fear of the Demons and the God.

Ya I know its long but I think it is very much a plausable case to everything as much as I and most ppl hate the fact it may all be supernatural in the end. Well *Nipa* and looks forward to answer arcs to see if I'm right.

[Shiroth]

Hearing about what happened to Akasaka's wife was pretty upsetting, even more when knowing he could have stopped all that.. nice lil' touch there.

Its pretty easy to understand that this episode is needed when wanting to understand just what is going on in this whole story.. still, its good to still try and work things out.

Next we get the start of the few answer arc's, and from what i know.. they're going to be pretty upsetting. ;_;

[RMgX]

The way I see it after this ep is that either Rika has overheard some people planning to kill people and when, possible reason is that these people are in the know of what went on with this kidnapping, there could be other reasons of course. The biggest flaw is that it seems unnatural to plan deaths so far ahead, and also if these people were killed over their connection with the kidnapping it would make more sense to kill them right away, if someone hasn't spoken up for several years they probably never will, this fits with the fact that Rika only knows about some of the deaths, the other deaths could have been people who were not on the hitlist at the time, or were killed by others.
If we assume Rika actually is clairvoyant it gets a lot easier. There could then be alot of different reasons for each death, and Rika is just someone who knows about them.
Another and better "Rika overheard a deathlist" scenario would be that there is some sort of internal power struggle in the S family, perhaps some people want another heir than the one the old woman has decided, and decide to kill some supporters of the old woman on each Watanagashi festival to make it seem more like a curse. The obvious weak side of this is that Rika could have told the old S woman and these killers or at least their plans would probably have been done for. I don't think the old woman is the one planning it because one of the tips said she liked Rika.

[BrokenWingz]

Maybe, the staff purposely left some events out of the question arcs , and not miss as many for answer arcs to make it better or more of a mystery :p

[Deathkillz]

hmm if Akasaka's wife fell down the steps on her belly (shown in the anime) how did the baby survive O.o its weak little bones should be crushed -.-
anyway after all this confusion the answer arcs would be interesting ;)

[FubaredByAnime]

I'm surprised no one caught this one fact:

We are not presented with the festival we've typically seen in the first 2 arcs. No nightstands, no crowds, no cotton. Instead, we get a bunch of drunkards at the temple. Goes to show how people felt about Oyashiro-sama.

So that means at some point between Akasaka's visit and the first 3 arcs, something must've occured that made people start this new festival tradition. Since the first murder supposedly was perpetrated by people who were drunk on the night of Watanagashi just like we've seen in this episode, I doubt this they started it the year of the first murder. Since Rika's father died during on the planning of the festival, it looks like the new tradition was already in the works, based off the TIPS. So I'm guessing that the year after the first murder, there was enough superstition that pushed people into believing that there was a need for this. Hmmmm ... after writing, I dunno how this really fits, but maybe someone else can figure it out.

[LostBlue]

hmm... at the risk of being slapped on the wrist I'll diverge some game info.

One of the main reasons why many people come the the Watanagashi is that the locals are scared. The Curse seems never ending and anyone who has tabooed Oyashiro-sama has been dealt with.

In 1983, the year Keiichi moves to town, over half the children from Hinamizawa and the neighboring village attend the festival. I think the total attendance is quite large. The county now even pools money to support the festivity because of its current size.

[keke]

I'm very interested in Rika's death in chapter 2.

In the beginning of the chapter, we see that Rika apparently kills herself during a confrontation with Mion. Why would she do this? In ep. 15, we see that she has forseen her death, however it happens. That's if this prequel chapter stays true for all the future chapters.

Rika implies to Akasaka that she wants to be saved, or at least that's how he interpretted her message. So why would she take her own life? Did she predict how she would die, or does she simply know she'll die somehow? Perhaps she just decided to end things herself, knowing she cannot escape her fate.

But why kill herself infront of Mion at that moment? If she was planning on commiting suicide, doing it alone and in a less painful way would probably be better. Perhaps something Mion said to her at that moment put her over the edge?

[Rasuberi]

I'm very interested in Rika's death in chapter 2.

In the beginning of the chapter, we see that Rika apparently kills herself during a confrontation with Mion. Why would she do this? In ep. 15, we see that she has forseen her death, however it happens. That's if this prequel chapter stays true for all the future chapters.

Rika implies to Akasaka that she wants to be saved, or at least that's how he interpretted her message. So why would she take her own life? Did she predict how she would die, or does she simply know she'll die somehow? Perhaps she just decided to end things herself, knowing she cannot escape her fate.

But why kill herself infront of Mion at that moment? If she was planning on commiting suicide, doing it alone and in a less painful way would probably be better. Perhaps something Mion said to her at that moment put her over the edge?

I personally think Rika does not like things that are predetermined... according to the TIPS. Thus a little self-stabbing, which means she can't die like she thought she was supposed to (watanagashi-ed a few days after watanagashi?), I imagine.

[Sinestra]

Very intresting episode i will admit that it did make me a little sad. First Akasaka's wife dying was a shocker but thank goodness the child survives. i dont want to imagin that man if he would have lost them both i think that would be it for his sanity i am surpised he held it together as well as he did.

Rika knowing the future and knowing that she was going die was one of saddest things iv seen so far this chapter. having to live knowing you know when your time is up plus everyone elses. I was surpised when she asked for help she seemed so vulnarable then. There has been much speculation over weather you can change your destiny/Fate. That is a very hard question to answer. Some think that even knowing your future will already change it. While others beleive that no matter what you do its pre-destined i think Rika did not like this idea. Even if you think Rika changed her destiny in some way, we could never tell because that could have been part of her destiny as well. Im convienced that there is just no way to tell

I also think that Rika was allowed to have this knowledge if the whole town was doomed there would be no one around to tell the story i think that Rika's real purpose was to meet Akasaka so that he could tell the story after she and the town were gone the same for Oishi. So basically everyone had a role to play weather they wanted to or not it was destined. but thats just my theory im still unsure of a few things. Such as Keiichi surviving but no mention of him in this episode. i know how Oishi survived so im clear on that one.

[Sushi-Y]

I personally think Rika does not like things that are predetermined... according to the TIPS. Thus a little self-stabbing, which means she can't die like she thought she was supposed to (watanagashi-ed a few days after watanagashi?), I imagine.
That was one of the more subtle events in the story, that is, you won't be directly told why Rika did that. But if you're sharp enough about Rika, you should be realize why she did what she did. At the very least, most people should be able to have a good idea about everything by the end of Tsumihoroboshi-hen.

The answer doesn't become absolutely clear until Minagoroshi-hen (not covered by the anime) though, so be sharp! :heh:

[ApathyEcstasy]

Very intresting episode i will admit that it did make me a little sad. First Akasaka's wife dying was a shocker but thank goodness the child survives. i dont want to imagin that man if he would have lost them both i think that would be it for his sanity i am surpised he held it together as well as he did.

Rika knowing the future and knowing that she was going die was one of saddest things iv seen so far this chapter. having to live knowing you know when your time is up plus everyone elses. I was surpised when she asked for help she seemed so vulnarable then. There has been much speculation over weather you can change your destiny/Fate. That is a very hard question to answer. Some think that even knowing your future will already change it. While others beleive that no matter what you do its pre-destined i think Rika did not like this idea. Even if you think Rika changed her destiny in some way, we could never tell because that could have been part of her destiny as well. Im convienced that there is just no way to tell

I also think that Rika was allowed to have this knowledge if the whole town was doomed there would be no one around to tell the story i think that Rika's real purpose was to meet Akasaka so that he could tell the story after she and the town were gone the same for Oishi. So basically everyone had a role to play weather they wanted to or not it was destined. but thats just my theory im still unsure of a few things. Such as Keiichi surviving but no mention of him in this episode. i know how Oishi survived so im clear on that one.


there are quite a few visual novels out there that follow a similar design as higurashi..in that each arc or branch is a parallel universe unto itself...so it's just as likely that in this parallel universe, either keichi died as well, or he never ended up in the town to begin with

[Sinestra]

there are quite a few visual novels out there that follow a similar design as higurashi..in that each arc or branch is a parallel universe unto itself...so it's just as likely that in this parallel universe, either keichi died as well, or he never ended up in the town to begin with

That would make since considering how the over all story and the chapters are presented. I guess if you think that Keiichi was never in town this chapter makes more sense thanks for the info. Either way this series has made my list of animes that i will always remember.

[Alu]

Well this arc compleatly twisted my mind.. to say the least ^^
I'd now better spoil tag this though :)

Reasons for this are.., well.., up until Tatarigoroshi-hen I found most of the events in Onikakushi-hen and specialy in Watanagashi-hen to have a reasonable explination behind them, altough extreamly complexed.., as I had speculated in detail in this post : http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=624515&postcount=133

I was up until then almost ready to exclude the un-natural "option" of the story, IE : Oyashiro-sama's curse, but now after this arc I currently don't know exactly what to think on this :p

Needless to say that it was mostely all due to Rika's premonitions on what was going to happen, and specialy regarding Akasaka's wife and her fate.
In these aspects I am positive that is not natural or even possible for Rika to know this (unless someone was hired to cause Akasaka's wife into having an "accident" and somehow Rika knew about it - but it still wouldn't explain how she knew about the events which where to come)

The best conclusion I can make of this is that, currently if there is something un-natural at work its Rika's capability for forsee the future.., if this is tied to Oyashiro-sama's curse or not, or if the curse is real or not I cannot say...; however I still feel as if the "curse" itself is not real, but now we do have to take un-natural events & aspects into consideration.

Reasons for what I belive that supports the fact that the curse is not real, are mostely as I had then previously posted on the episode 8 page.., alot of the events seem to have a reasonable explination behind them.., these of course apart from most of what happened in Tatarigoroshi-hen..., which I belive was mostely used to give us an in-sight on the "curse" prespective.., this and well.., I am also positive that alot of it was delivered to us on behalf of Keiichi's own mental insanity..

All and all out of all the 3 scenarios so far Keiichi has only seemed to have died in Onikakushi-hen.., however Rika's fate I belive had been the same through out all 3, just as she predicted..

Altough we do not know what happened to her by the end of Onikakushi-hen.., since I belive the arcs somewhat compel each other on some aspects others missed.., there is a great possibility that the end of the town had been exactly as what happened in these last 2 arcs.., which would imply that Rika had died previous to it, one way or another.

The observation that Rasuberi made regarding this : I personally think Rika does not like things that are predetermined... according to the TIPS. Thus a little self-stabbing, which means she can't die like she thought she was supposed to (watanagashi-ed a few days after watanagashi?), I imagine.
Seems to me, to fit perfectly.., giving Rika's character..

So there is no escaping that she would die, but she probably wanted to kill herself to gain some control and not let things simply "be decided"..., question now is..., by Who :p

In the end I belive that most arcs clearly gaved us alot of answers that where used to compleat the previous ones.., altough this despite raising then alot more Other questions ^^
I have a feeling that the next 2 answer arcs will be more or less the same.., but hopefully by the end we can more or less view the big picture.

I'm truly loving this anime.., I've almost forgotten about every other :D

[solwyvern]

Well this arc compleatly twisted my mind.. to say the least ^^

So youve finally caught up. :D True, true, I was left baffled in the same way.

All and all out of all the 3 scenarios so far Keiichi has only seemed to have died in Onikakushi-hen..,

○Hmmm, didn't Keichi die in Watanagishi-hen as well? He got 'hammered' by ?Mion/Shion/Oni, remember? Or by some crazy miracle(such as the ending of Tatarigoroshi-hen)... he was able to come out alive^^

So there is no escaping that she would die, but she probably wanted to kill herself to gain some control and not let things simply "be decided"..., question now is..., by Who

I'd say that the Sonozaki clan are pulling some strings here. :p I've been suspecting that they are a massive organization protecting the curse of Oyashiro.
..even going as far as hiring some trained men to do their dirty work. OR I could be wrong and there are 2 organizations. The Sonozaki clan, and maybe Mr. Director himself. maybe the hired men actually work for Mr. Director instead of the Sonozakis

I have a feeling that the next 2 answer arcs will be more or less the same..,

I want to believe otherwise. =o
The next arcs after all, are the answer arcs. It should more explain the previous episodes and clear up on some things.

[Alu]

@ Solwy : For Keiichi's last scene in Watanagishi-hen...


○Hmmm, didn't Keichi die in Watanagishi-hen as well? He got 'hammered' by ?Mion/Shion/Oni, remember? Or by some crazy miracle(such as the ending of Tatarigoroshi-hen)... he was able to come out alive^^


I belive that that image he saw of Shion(dressed as Mion) in the hospital about to drive those nails into his hand was all in his head..., after all that happened he probably became mentaly instable.., which regarding Keiichi we have seen this happen many times through all the arcs (except this one of course) so far :p

I belive this because.., I don't find any reasonable explination for Shion to still be alive.., according to the police report they had found her body (still beliving to be Mion) along with the others down in that Well at the Sonozaki house.

So.., unless Oyashiro-sama brought her back from the dead, or something that I cannot find explination as of yet.., I'd realy have to guess and say it was all in Keiichi's mind.

By the way Solwy.., as things are going.., don't be surprised if I end up asking you to drop the Rozen Maiden vectors and make one for a Mion wallpaper ^^, or..., ups.. I guess I just did :p

[FatPianoBoy]

I still think people are thinking way too deeply into the twin thing, but whatever.

The logical camp took a serious blow from this last arch. Unless Rika overhead something at one of the family meetings (very possible), then there are some seriously weird things happening. I'm also finding it a bit harder to keep attributing "Oyashiro-sama mode" to a temporary psychosis of some sort. Unless there's something in the water other than that toxic gas, I'm not sure how nearly everyone in the town can drop into that creepy trance :heh:

[lifestorm2]

I wonder......where is Takano? I don't see much difference in the known characters (and it's only about 5 years before the other arcs), so....where is she? =O

[aliensporebomb]

Some really odd thoughts came to mind while watching this and some of the
other arcs:

If, in the end, the town is effectively DESTROYED by a lethal volcano gas,
how does that please Oyashiro-sama? Wouldn't that being be out of
the omnipotent being business then? What good is being an omnipotent
God with no beings to be God to?

If s/he requires occasional sacrifice, eliminating the town (which this
being/god/demon) supposedly values, to the point of KILLING people
who LEAVE the town or threatens it (dam builders anyone?) it doesn't
make sense.

So, my feeling is - Rika may very well have been possessed or had
some telekinetic power as was Shion/Mion (not really sure but I think
it's possible Shion was the evil one and Mion may very well have been
a sweetiepie caught in the crossfire of her sisters machinations, we just
don't know clearly yet).

There's multiple things happening here. And I don't completely buy that
the whole kit and kaboodle was supernatural happenings. I suspect 1/3rd
was humans (drugs, hypnosis, mental illness), 1/3rd may very well have
been supernatural events (rika? mion? shion?) and 1/3rd we just don't
know.

Show is driving me nuts.



That comment about Irie at the page linked in this thread rings of a bit
of truth.

[NykylaiHellray]

I am confused by this chapter, please correct me if I am wrong, but I heard this was a prequel to the last three, but doesnt this contridrict the other three?

In Onikakushi-hen it does not contridict I guess as it never says how Rika died.

Yet in Watanagashi-hen oishi lives, but it says rika died in the well, which contridcits the idea of her body being found at the shrine.

Now one may say this does not contridict Himatsubushi-hen yet in that oishi disapears and his body is never found.

So......if this is a prequel why does it only support one of them .....i am confused o_o


Though I have worked out somthing. There seems to be four main factors at work

Rika, may or may not be Oyashiro-sama, which makes her the key element.

Oishi in all serves as the catalyst for the events, triguring things, and as referred in the tips, is the harbringer of Oyashiro-sama.

Keichi, is also linked, and is the trigger that starts the scenarios going, and in one becomes the devine outlet for Oyashiro-sama.

Mion repersents the ogre aspect and also seems to be a trigger..

Hmmm now to work out how they are linked =/

[Wanderer]

I am confused by this chapter, please correct me if I am wrong, but I heard this was a prequel to the last three, but doesnt this contridrict the other three?

In Onikakushi-hen it does not contridict I guess as it never says how Rika died.

Yet in Watanagashi-hen oishi lives, but it says rika died in the well, which contridcits the idea of her body being found at the shrine.

Now one may say this does not contridict Himatsubushi-hen yet in that oishi disapears and his body is never found.

So......if this is a prequel why does it only support one of them .....i am confused o_o



I think we are supposed to be a bit confused. Part of the mystery is figuring out how the four arcs are related to each other. The ending of Himatsubushi-hen seems to be a 4th seperate outcome, and we're left to assume that what we saw in the beginning of Himatsubushi-hen is also the past for the other 3 arcs. They just don't give many strait answers in this show (well, at least for the question arcs)

[kj1980]

[QUOTE=NykylaiHellray]I am confused by this chapter, please correct me if I am wrong, but I heard this was a prequel to the last three, but doesnt this contridrict the other three?

In Onikakushi-hen it does not contridict I guess as it never says how Rika died.

Yet in Watanagashi-hen oishi lives, but it says rika died in the well, which contridcits the idea of her body being found at the shrine.

Now one may say this does not contridict Himatsubushi-hen yet in that oishi disapears and his body is never found.

So......if this is a prequel why does it only support one of them .....i am confused o_o

You're on the right track, but thinking differently.

Here's a hint so that you can discuss your theories in the general discussion thread:
Which parts are similar, and which parts are different? And if different, why?

[LostBlue]

I am confused by this chapter, please correct me if I am wrong, but I heard this was a prequel to the last three, but doesnt this contridrict the other three?


It might be better thinking that each chapter is its own possibility in the world of Higurashi. While some chapters might be very similar to others you got to sort out the details of what makes each chapter unique. If something is similar in all the chapters... well... you have something constant going on. If something only happens in one chapter than you have a variable in the formula. If you have an event that repeated itself in a few chapters you got to figure out why it doesn't happen in the other arcs.

When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth =)

[Chibi_Faerie]

Question question~ *Raises hand*

For Rika's 'Predictions'
She mentions everything happening, even her own death. But says nothing of Tomitake and Takano, who always 'die' before her in that year on the night of wantanagashi. Well Tomitake does, Takano supposedly does. Why not have them included in the predictions? Was this a mistake by deen or does it have some significance to it?

Was just rewatching the series and got to this part, so was curious and thought I'd mention it.