Higurashi Episode 16 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

kj1980

2006-07-18, 11:42

Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 16.

Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for RAWs.
Try to keep spoilers from the Game or Manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Game / Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.

Spoiler Tag Usage

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Don't forget to use the spoiler title

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ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni
Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) before you ask questions!!!

Feel free to utilize the info on the TIPS section (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31732) as a complement to this series.

Feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting.

I am designating Sushi-Y and Freakman to lead the discussion in the correct path without spoilers as they have played the game in advance. I put confidence in them that they will recognize a member has spilled the beans too far if any other members has begun to play the game.

SPOILERS FAR ADVANCED THAN THE CURRENT AIRED ANIME EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS INCLUDES THOSE IN SPOILER TAGS!!!. People tend to peek at spoiler tags; especially when they do not know such tag is meant for the episode, only to find it spilling the beans too far advanced in the game storyline.

Rasuberi

2006-07-18, 20:29

Aa, now I'm confused. I enjoyed the episode, but now I don't know what to think of any of my theories when it comes to Shion. Shion~

Aha, and poor Mion. It's never a good thing when your twin who's pretending to be you starts doing things that will leave a messy trail for yourself to clean up.

It is really strange to see things from Shion's view. What with everyone thinking she's Mion and her obvious hate for Satoko.

And one question, she was locked up in a school or something in the beginning? I'm too lazy to rewatch and I don't think I as paying to much attention, but what was that about? Poor Shion in any case, in some school far away from her sister whom she apparently actually is quite close to.

Sushi-Y

2006-07-18, 20:45

Holy cow, is Hinamizawa famous for producing people with superhuman powers or something? :twitch: People getting tossed/blown against walls like they're made of paper... :heh:

But still, hurting my beloved Satoko... Shion... 許せない :mad:

===================
Now then, for some general comments.

To start off, I'd like to say that the flow of the episode was not bad. It's much more composed compared to the earlier chapters (where events flew by at light speeds) However, there were a few points in the episode were the development would suddenly jump ahead, leave you hanging for a bit before you can catch up. For game players like me, we can follow the story easily enough (by filling in the missing spots with what we already know from the game), but I wonder if the anime watchers can keep up with the story. It's also possible that all the swappings between Mion and Shion can become confusing too.

Oh the other hand, the animation quality was quite stable. Satoshi's design and voice were both pretty spot on (Kobayashi Yuu was a slightly surprising choice though ( ・ω・ )). Shion was very cute too. ^^

Shion's escape from the boarding school, which took probably an hour in the game, was easily accomplished within 30 seconds in the anime. :heh:

As I expected, it was a bit of a bummer that dai-san's beautiful piano tracks from the game can't be heard in the anime. But well, it can't be helped.

The first half of the episode did a good job portraying the loving relationship between Mion and Shion, which is quite important, so I'm glad they didn't skip too much on this. Surprisingly, they even animated that famous(?) little tap to the forehead that Shion gave Mion in the library. ^^; From that scene, we can tell that Shion is really the extroverted caretaker, while Mion is actually the insecure shy one.

The meeting between Shion and Satoshi was a little different from the game (Shion was playing around by pretending to be crying from the delinquents' threats, that's when Satoshi showed up to "rescue" her), but overall it was nicely done.

(For game players) Satoshi petting Shion on the head for the first time was... *sigh* :(

Shion's talk with Rena felt a little out of place, especially without Shion's internal monologues. Although Rena doesn't know that it's actually Shion, for Shion, it was her first time meeting Rena. At the bus stop, Rena suddenly asking Shion if she likes Satoshi felt like it came out of nowhere, when the question could've been softened with some small talk first. As for Rena's knowledge about Oyashiro-sama as an "experienced person" herself, all of it alarmed and frightened Shion. It would've been nice to hear Shion's monologue here about how her instinct tells her to never go up against Rena.

Finally, Shion's hatred for Satoko felt slightly pushy in the anime. In the game, the flow was:

Shion likes Satoshi
↓
Shion learns that much of Satoshi's hardship came from having to cover his little sister from abuse at home
↓
Shion hates Satoko for being so dependant on her brother all the time, dragging him down

But in the anime, there hasn't been much portrayal showing "Shion loves Satoshi" (partly because of the lack of monologues, so we can't tell her thoughts), so her sudden explosion of anger at school against Satoko's crybaby attitude felt a little over-the-top.

Oh yeah, Kanai Mika-san cried for a whole 2 1/2 minutes... wow... ^^;

Overall, despite some minor complaints, not a bad episode to start off Meakashi with. Next week, Shion is going to be up against that painful kejime machine... :(

Hanatori

2006-07-18, 23:46

Actually it wasn't that bad, I could tell that Shion liked Satoshi from the first time they were together. o_o; Satoshi~ I was caught off-guard by his voice, though. But I like him already.

Crazy me, I've already watched this 3 times. >_<; I rarely do that with raws.

I wonder what will happen between Mion and Satoshi now that Shion didn't quite give him the best impression...

So... Keiichi does not show up at all? ._.;

kj1980

2006-07-19, 13:45

Most likely the best adaptation of the game to anime episode I have seen recently for Higurashi. Sure, it still left out some pieces here and there, but this one was paced quite evenly.

I was surprised to hear that they used Kobayashi Yuu for Satoshi. Hmm, perhaps she'll was the one selected in advance for Satoshi in future drama CDs? Nice to know as she is becoming one of my favorite seiyuus ever since her excellent role as Secchan in those Negima CDs.

Mika-P crying for over 2 and a half minutes! Now that's a great professional voice acting work right there!

And I guess my theory was indeed correct: kids living in rural areas back before the eras of video games are more energetic and powerful. Must be the excercise and they get everyday going out into the woods.

USCPharmacist

2006-07-19, 18:11

and level up...killing oyashiro sama's bits

Flame-X

2006-07-19, 20:12

HOLY CRAP! O.O

lol one little push, everyone gets tossed XD

USCPharmacist

2006-07-20, 11:51

I am only basing this on the anime, so the game player might disagree with me, but I really hate Shion now. I think she is an obsessive, compulsive, selfish bastard who only think about herself and not other. Also she is either really dumb or her obsession made her handling the situation with Satoshi very poorly. I think part of the reason of her selfishness was due to her rich girl experience and isolation. She thought that she was the most important person in the world from her statue and she felt she was a victim because of her isolation so the world owed her something.

There was nothing wrong for her to fall in love with Satoshi at first sight. However she then became "jealous" of Satoko. Yes, she claimed she hated her because Satoko caused suffering for Satoshi but I think that's a self denial. She didn't like her because Satoko was too clining to Satoshi, so that Satoshi had to pay all of his attention to her instead of Shion. I meant, any normal person, like Keiichi hahaha, would see that the villains were the uncle and aunt, and perhaps the villagers. How could she blame Satoko for getting scare from abusive foster parents. Shion should've call children service first instead of beating to crap out of Satoko for crying (although a crying kid can be very annoying but that's not an excuse eheheh). If Shion really love Satoshi the smart thing to do is to first lose the disguise. I understand the situation but she was inconsidered for Mion if she continue to use her image for stupid thing. Second, Shion should help out Satoshi to take care of his sister first. It didn't matter if that'll hellp the situation but at least Satoshi would be grateful. It was true that Satoshi might really want to ditch his sister but Shion would be stupid to think he'll do it publically. but I think that Shion just didn't have any patient, she wanted Satoshi now, instead of spending time to woo him and also sacrified a bit of herself to help Satoshi. She acted as if she wanted to eliminate everything in Satoshi's life so he can only think about her. That's very selfish if you ask me. Of course, if people were not fucked up in Higurashi, we wouldn't have all these crazy murder to begin with :)

Sushi-Y

2006-07-20, 15:34

I am only basing this on the anime, so the game player might disagree with me
No, I think those are very reasonable observations. Shion is actually a very intelligent person, she's just blind and impulsive when it comes to love.

Your observations are pretty much the same as what I had when I was at this point in the game. It's a good mindset to have because you can see how your opinion will change as the chapter progresses. It'd be interesting to hear what people think about Shion right now and hear from them again after the chapter ends.

USCPharmacist

2006-07-20, 18:26

It would probably takes a lot to change my opinion, even if Shion past is really tragic because being in a tough situation and falling in love doesn't give you the right to beat the crap out of someone else unprovoke (no, crying loud is not a justifiable offense). My beef is not really the violent, because I watch Higurashi for that :) but the fact that she pick on Satoko instead of the Aunt and Uncle.

Does she really believe that beating Satoshi's sister in front of everybody will make the supposely compasionate brother find you hot, in your sister appearence? hahaha lol

TougeSil80

2006-07-21, 08:22

This ep is a little confusing for me. Is this the beginning of the Answer Arc, or is this still Question Arc? Thanks.

LostBlue

2006-07-21, 10:12

Answer. Answer Arcs don't solve everything in one go. But they do reveal A LOT of info and completely crush incorrect theories.

Shiroth

2006-07-24, 17:30

So the first answer arc begins, yay for a lot more Shion. Its good to finally get to see Satoshi, not shocking at all how people thought Keiichi was him.. i'd say its only the hair color/eyes that are different.

I was pretty much just waiting for Shion to snap at Satoko, you could just see it coming from the Rena & Shion talk. You just gotta feel sorry for Shion & Satoko.. ;_;

Next episode looks like its gonna get even more crazy, & i'm missing Keiichi.. ^^;

As I expected, it was a bit of a bummer that dai-san's beautiful piano tracks from the game can't be heard in the anime. But well, it can't be helped.
I was wondering if you could tell me which tracks played at which moment? Gonna listen to them at the scenes.. see what i can feel from it. ^^

Rias

2006-07-24, 17:50

kj1980

2006-07-24, 17:54

This epsiode made me think about the events in Watanagashi-hen...the fact that Shion can take Mion's place, without anyone noticing...makes me wonder about the events that happened at the last epsiode...

I wonder how Rena ties into this, after all, this arc is supposed to solve the Onikakushi-hen, no?

Read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) carefully:

Meakashi-hen (目明し編, Detective Chapter?), (Released December 30, 2004)
Answer to Watanagashi-hen. It is practically the same as Watanagashi-hen, however this story is told from a different person's perspective which allows the player to understand the mysteries of that chapter.

Note the word "practically the same" as well. It denotes a hint.

BakaOnna

2006-07-24, 18:14

Now I understand why Shion was the gamers' least favorite character out of the main ones. She was sure a violent girl. Like others have mentioned, people from Hinamizawa have super strength. :heh:

Anyway, this was the first 10 I've given in a while, since episode 8 and ep. 4 before that. I really enjoyed seeing events through Shion's POV, and I also liked the sister relationship the twins have with each other. But I do miss Keiichi since he's one of my faves. :p

Sushi-Y

2006-07-24, 18:25

I was wondering if you could tell me which tracks played at which moment? Gonna listen to them at the scenes.. see what i can feel from it. ^^
If that's the case, you might as well buy the game and try to go through it yourself that way. ^^; If you already have a gist of the story from the anime anyway.

There were a few memorable moments from the game (for me) that this episode covered:

Unlike the anime, which began with Shion escaping the school in record time :heh:, the game's first hour or so was spent with Shion in the process of sneaking out while avoiding guards and getting through locked gates. Shion paused shortly after the game started, and began describing her situation, how she ended up in this quiet suburban boarding school in the first place, and why she's breaking out.

The track played during this scene was "Iru". Which, despite being merely 1:25 long, is one of my most favorite, if not the most favorite, track in Meakashi-hen. The track had a very calm and nolstalgic melody to it, and fitted the night scene perfectly.

After Shion escaped and met up with Kasai (the sunglasses guy, who is Shion's bodyguard), they headed out onto the highway to return to Hinamizawa. At this point, the game's logo appeared, along with the "opening song", which is "Thanks".

The meeting between Shion and Satoshi was also accompanied by one of dai-san's great tracks. I don't remember if it was "Thanks" or "you" though.

Tsumihoroboshi-hen featured some great tracks as well (not just from dai-san), so it's a slight disappointment that we won't hear them in the anime.

Shiroth

2006-07-24, 18:30

If that's the case, you might as well buy the game and try to go through it yourself that way. ^^; If you already have a gist of the story from the anime anyway.
My japanese could be able to get me through the game.. maybe the PS2 version.

There were a few memorable moments from the game (for me) that this episode covered:

Unlike the anime, which began with Shion escaping the school in record time :heh:, the game's first hour or so was spent with Shion in the process of sneaking out while avoiding guards and getting through locked gates. Shion paused shortly after the game started, and began describing her situation, how she ended up in this quiet suburban boarding school in the first place, and why she's breaking out.

The track played during this scene was "Iru". Which, despite being merely 1:25 long, is one of my most favorite, if not the most favorite, track in Meakashi-hen. The track had a very calm and nolstalgic melody to it, and fitted the night scene perfectly.

After Shion escaped and met up with Kasai (the sunglasses guy, who is Shion's bodyguard), they headed out onto the highway to return to Hinamizawa. At this point, the game's logo appeared, along with the "opening song", which is "Thanks".

The meeting between Shion and Satoshi was also accompanied by one of dai-san's great tracks. I don't remember if it was "Thanks" or "you" though.

Tsumihoroboshi-hen featured some great tracks as well (not just from dai-san), so it's a slight disappointment that we won't hear them in the anime.

Thanks a lot Sushi, i'll probably rewatch the episode with these tracks playing at the right times, see what i get. ^_^

Matrim

2006-07-24, 18:38

I expected the answer arc to cover the same time period as Watanagashi but once again this series managed to surprise me. For the first time I could not wait and watched the raw first but didn't post here before watching the sub to get a clearer picture of the events. Impressive episode - I voted 9, not 10 because of the stupid incredibly strong athletes that seem to live in Hinamizawa according to the anime scriptwriters.

I think it supports the "Shion was the evil twin in Watanagashi" theory. We see how easy she can get enraged, we see that she is not too fond of Satoko to put it mildly and she can indeed pass for Mion even among her friends.
However, she seemed to be genuinely surprised when she heard about the Furude family deaths so I guess we cannot explain all the murders by simply saying that Shion did it. I don't like Satoko that much so I don't really hate Shion...for now. :heh:
I still don't see the great significance of the opening scene, doesn't it just confirm what almost everyone suspected - i.e. The Evil Twin pretending to be the victim in the end of Watanagashi?
So Shion and Mion get on well at that point but that does not seem to be the case a year later, unless they just pretended to dislike each other in front of K1. I guess Satoshi's disappearance has a lot to do with the deterioration of their relationship. Satoshi's voice seemed kind of unsuitable for this character, btw.

Paracelsus

2006-07-24, 19:18

Awesome episode, lots of answers, but still, I wonder:

Rena said that Satoshi experienced it as well as she did. Does that mean that he already went on a batting rampage before that time?

And Sushi-Y: I think Satoko became so strong and dependable, thanks to that wrestling match with True Mion <.<

FatPianoBoy

2006-07-24, 19:41

Oh my :twitch:
This episode > every other so far.
It had lots of Shion, which is pretty much autowin.
The bikers' completely unintelligible speech was awesome, as it's something I've always thought about that stereotype in anime :rolleyes:

I can definitely sympathize with Shion finding Satoko to be excessively whiney, but not really enough to do what she did. And I think I heard poor Shion's heart hit the floor when Satoshi yelled at her :upset: One of my favorite things about Higurashi is the sudden psychotic outbursts, so I was loving that. But Shion's still my favorite, despite ;)
It's feeling like my idea for Watanagashi-hen is gonna get ripped to shreds though, especially since Shi and Mi switch places so easily. And I just reaffirmed recently that people were putting too much thought into them switching places :heh:

All in all, if the rest of this arch stays this strong, it'll be the best yet. I have to give this a ten for bursting at the seams with awesome. It's really the best episode yet.

Shuin4

2006-07-24, 20:50

Wow, that scene at school was intense. I can understand why Shion thought those things during this episode, but seriously

how is slamming a chair over Satoko going to help her grow a spine? It would most likely break it, seeing as how a little push sent Satoko flying into the lockers and the desks.

Shame they didn't change the OP+ED (i was hoping they'd have new animation scenes to match the answer arcs) but it's no big deal.

Guido

2006-07-24, 23:48

The school scene was tearjerking for me.

I'm surprised how Satoko was completely defenseless and a cry-baby because of their abusive uncle and aunt, one year before Keiichi arrived.

Eventually, I will learn how Satoko became who she is in Onikakushi-hen, Watanagashi-hen, and Tatarigoroshi-hen, once Satoshi's impending doom arrives.

Shion desiring to eliminate the source of Satoshi's misery which is primarily Satoko for Meakashi-hen, parallels Keiichi's murderous wish to kill the one who was bringing pain and despair to Satoko, which was her uncle for Tatarigoroshi-hen.

But I find Shion's rage and hell bent misplaced toward Satoko, because she hasn't done anything to her. Just because Shion fell attracted toward Satoshi and pitying at heart his current predicament does not give her the right to pour her fire on Satoko; I applaud and praise Rika-chan for her defensive stance to protect Satoko and arguing reason on Shion.

It would have been more intense if Shion started to slap Satoko on the cheeks or even going as far slapping her on the butt. However, grabbing her by the forehead and throwing her as a rag doll was just brutal.

How come Shion exerted that supernatural strength? Was it the product of her going into Oyashiro-mode?

Was Shion's psychosis just a regular one? or maybe her Oyashiro-mode awakening out of jealousy?
Well, we have plenty of time to see the close shot of Shion's face, and since her eyes turned cat-like then that means Oyashiro-mode, at least looks to me.

Cardiac Glycoside

2006-07-25, 00:55

I think Shion is horny, and that horniness carried over too far and made Satoko a victim. (Strange seeing the beating scene when Satoko did pretty much the same thing to K1 in episodes 10 and 13).

Is it just me, or does Satoshi sound a lot like Jun from Rozen Maiden?

Alu

2006-07-25, 01:04

Answer Arcs don't solve everything in one go. But they do reveal A LOT of info and completely crush incorrect theories.

What a great episode, to me Higurashi has been a rank 10 all arround Anime, and this episode clearly doesn't stay behind.
Much like LostBlue previously said.., answer Arcs don't give the answers in a literal way.., everyone will still have to think to understand how everything fits together :p

Altough despite crushing alot of theories aswell.., I am becoming extreamly happy on the way that Maekashi-hen started and is developing towards its conclusion.., this specialy because well.., my speculations & theory so far regarding Watanagashi-hen (which I posted in the episode 8 thread) seem MORE and more to be correct :D

Reasons for this are as follows.., and also taking things from this episode...
I'd better spoil tag this ^^

Well right from the opening scenes we get to see Shion dragging an inconsious Mion through the floor on the Sonozaki Mansion; just this scene alot started to give support to what I had then written about regarding that what had happened in Watanagashi-hen.

At that point Shion finaly "cracked" then she switched places with Mion and imprisioned her.
It was clear to me that the person inside the cage was Mion and not Shion.., the one-sama part mencioned before realy gaved my speculations more foundation.., not to mencione the fact that through the entire episode Mion acted realy as a phsyco-Shion.., and when we see Shion in the cage she acted realy like Mion would.., specialy upon seeing Keiichi.., but frightned.

Thus she then called Rika over as to lure Satoko (due to her hatred towards her) and killed her.., after as to not leave any witnesses behind.., she toke out Rika aswell.

Which also fits perfectly regarding on how through this entire episode her anger towards Rika started to grow, as she more and more could not stand to see Satoshi beeing so pushed down on the count of taking all the hits instead of his sister.

I was not surprised upon seeing that Shion did in fact Had love feelings towards Satoshi.., because it was something that I had also based my speculation upon the reasons that made her act as she did towards Mion when she saw that Mion loved Keiichi in Watanagashi-hen.
Something that again, this episode came to prove.

Shion is definitly in love with Satoshi, from the very moment she saw him.., but then to learn on how miserable he was just devastated her.., so she clearly wanted to change that by "fixing" the source of the problem (Satoko).
Which inevitaly lead towards the scene we saw in this episode.

Thing is.., I belive Shion is already extreamly mentaly instable...; and I say this because.., as I saw her beating down on Satoko.. even though the words she was shouting where directed at the cause to make her realise that she was making Satoshi miserable.., It felt to me that in fact the words she was saying where also her inner expressions of hatred and spite against on how Mion had been born first and had been able to live a more free life and in-herit the Sonozaki Leadership.

Which clearly would explain why she in the end, inside had so much hate towards her, as we saw in Watanagashi-hen.
And I guess the same would apply on to Satoko.., for I belive she now sees her as the reason for why Satoshi despizes the Sonozaki family even more..; for.., if she had not made him so miserable, Shion would have never attacked her only to Satoshi in the end enter to protecter her.
Something that.., to Shion now made the chances of him wanting to be with her less possible..

I wonder if this effect will be the trigger which caused Satoshi's death as we saw in the begining of Tatarigoroshi-hen..., as in.. if I can't have him.., then no one will.

All and all the dissapearence of Satoshi, and in this episode we saw how Just important he was to Satoko.., realy explains why Sakoto acted the way she did in Tatarigoroshi-hen.
For depending SO MUCH on her brother.., and then to have seen him dissapear just like that.., clearly she inside is compleatly unstable , and realy went through alot of depression and altough she fought to make it through.., everyday she probably struggles with regret on why such a miserable fate fell upon her.

Something that ended up by driving her over the edge.. as when she became to see Keiichi as beeing cursed and ended up killing him as in to "save him" and make everything good back again.., just as how everything was when Keiichi had just transfered in.

Now lets see if the following episodes continue to give support on all of this or not :D

As for the "curse" factor.., this episode kind of left me still puzzeled.., but that well.., also has ALOT to do with the last 2 arcs..
The fact though that the possibility that Oyashiro-sama's curse is spread through when someone wishes for someone to die is now VERY possible aswell.., for as we all saw in Tatarigoroshi-hen as Keiichi wished upon other's death.., it happened.., and now Shion doing the same on Satoshi's Aunt..

But since we still don't know "exactly" how Satoshi died.., in this case it might just be coincidence on behalf of Shion's wish.., since what we all saw in Tatarigoroshi-hen was just the "curse's" point of view of the story :)

All and all the events shown in this episode more or less give a reason to the actions in the 2nd arc.., specialy regarding the Mion / Shion aspects.

In the end.., I'll say it again.. A Great episode !, to me..., there is no way this anime can do any rong :D

LostBlue

2006-07-25, 02:26

How come Shion exerted that supernatural strength? Was it the product of her going into Oyashiro-mode?

Same reason why Satoko can push K1 like a rag doll and Rika can control the wind and how Satoshi can fling Shion... Studio Deen people had too much to drink.

I wonder if this effect will be the trigger which caused Satoshi's death as we saw in the begining of Tatarigoroshi-hen

That wasn't Satoshi. The lucky person who got the Watanagashi Deluxe package is Ritsuko Mamiya (see TIPs). This body was found in real time in the EP, meaning the death happened in the 5th year. You'll find out more about her later.

Darkside

2006-07-25, 02:58

Shion is scary :(

I thought Rena was the scariest in Oyashiro-mode, but Shion is relentless xD

Alu

2006-07-25, 03:04

That wasn't Satoshi. The lucky person who got the Watanagashi Deluxe package is Ritsuko Mamiya (see TIPs). This body was found in real time in the EP, meaning the death happened in the 5th year. You'll find out more about her later.

oh.., many thanks LostBlue, judging by the hair colour and how quickly the image was, my first conclusion was that it was Satoshi.., this also because I haven't gotten to read that far in the TIPS section yet; I only started Higurashi 5 days ago :)

How come Shion exerted that supernatural strength? Was it the product of her going into Oyashiro-mode?
This is just another aspect used to emphasise the effect of the scene, as it has happened in the previous scenes like LostBlue previously mencioned; despite Satoko beeing quite small, the throwing of her against the cabinets the way Shion did was just to enforce the brutality of the act.., something that in my eyes, worked like a charm :)

solwyvern

2006-07-25, 03:08

T_T Alu, it just might be true. Your speculation that Shion is actually the 'evil' person here. ..but I still find it hard to believe that everything is Shion's doing.

I'd like to point out that it seems Shion's weapon of choice is:
http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1391/img0083349eg.th.jpg (http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1391/img0083349eg.jpg)
If you will notice at the very beginning of the show you hear the sound electricity,
then Mion gets knocked out. Obviously it was Shion's stunner.
Also she almost brings it out when she was confronted by the bullies, but Satoshi jumps i to save the day.

Also as shown in th Op., and proven in this episode Shion does have the tendency to go berserk. 0_o I don't see why she took it all out on Satoko. The reasons have very little justification. Jealousy perhaps? xD!

Of, course, we can't forget the best part.
Rena! <3♥
http://img305.imageshack.us/img305/4455/1153812406499cd8.th.jpg (http://img305.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1153812406499cd8.jpg)

Also, I'd like to mention that I am really starting to miss K1. Still no mention of him... and it's after three episodes now. I miss the guy. =(

That wasn't Satoshi. The lucky person who got the Watanagashi Deluxe package is Ritsuko Mamiya (see TIPs).
Oh, wow. I have always thought that was Satoshi. >_<; I have yet to read all the TIPS so... :p
Shame they didn't change the OP+ED (i was hoping they'd have new animation scenes to match the answer arcs) but it's no big deal.
Same here ;_; though, it's not like I get bored of the same Op/Ed It is still that great.
I thought Rena was the scariest in Oyashiro-mode, but Shion is relentless xD
nah... Rena is still #1. Just listen to her sweet poem in the rain. :heh:

oops, forgot. Let's not forget the Highlight of the show.
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/682/1153812813497yx8.gif

Alu

2006-07-25, 03:19

T_T Alu, it just might be true. Your speculation that Shion is actually the 'evil' person here. ..but I still find it hard to believe that everything is Shion's doing.

Thanks Solwy :), but I am not saying that everything is Shion's doing.., because it CLEARLY is not :p

All that I wrotte then and now about Shion is only regarding most of what happened in Watanagashi-hen; specialy regarding the Shion & Mion's actions actions.., and what lead for those events in Watanagashi-hen to happen.

Regarding EVERYTHING else, there are still alot of questions on how & why, and I surely trust many of the answers will be without a doubt non-Shion related; oh and I do want to emphasise "everything" beacause.., it is alot :p

This episode in my eyes just focused in my eyes in delivering some justifications, as to how Shion's development started.., in which then as ended in Watanagashi-hen.
Hopefully the next will continue to do as such, but not just that ;)

dangitsdon

2006-07-25, 03:42

wtf is up with shion?!!or was it mion?...i think it was shion..anyways...
lol...preview for next episode looks promising.

Deathkillz

2006-07-25, 10:27

oh dear...oh dear...satoko got her butt kicked O.o shion is beaing really rough...but interesting that shion and mion are such close sisters...before i thought they hated each other...keep the answers comming :)

LostBlue

2006-07-25, 10:47

I don't see why she took it all out on Satoko. The reasons have very little justification. Jealousy perhaps? xD!

One thing the anime didn't portray is the passage of time. Shion has been hiding for weeks. The baseball practice itself is only on Sundays. So, I believe it was 3+ weeks where Shion didn't see Satoshi at all. She was very surprised of how much he changed when she saw him at school. And regardless of Mion's warning to leave him alone for now, Shion couldn't hold her feelings back. So she was extremely shocked when Satoshi acted cold towards her. Initially, Shion didn't have any intentions to harm Satoko, but when Satoko started crying out for Ni-ni
Shion just snap taking out all her frustration that's been building over the weeks onto her.

Of, course, we can't forget the best part.

Another thing I wished the anime should have done is kept Shion's monologue here... Shion had her survival instincts kick in while having this talk with Rena. Shion's instincts told her never to cross paths with Rena. Yea, Rena scared the crap out of her. Also just for time reference, Rena just moved back at this time.

Also, I'd like to mention that I am really starting to miss K1.

You'll see more of him =) The answer arcs definitely made him by far my favorite character in the series. And I don't think I'm the only one with him being #1 in the most recent character poll off the 07th Storming Party Homepage. :)

Oh, wow. I have always thought that was Satoshi.

Remember her.

Next EP... *shudders*

Shuin4

2006-07-25, 11:47

BakaOnna

2006-07-25, 12:05

ChainLegacy

2006-07-25, 17:47

That would explain why Rena was the only one who didn't die in Watanagashi hen, at least from the information we were given. If we were to assume that the Mion in ep. 8 was actually Shion, and Mion was the one in the cage thing, then Shion is indeed wary of Rena. I still think Rena is scariest in her Oyashiro-mode.
Scary... sure... but Keiichi killed both Rena and Mion in the first arc, so I don't know how much of her is bark and how much is really bite.

Sushi-Y

2006-07-25, 19:14

One thing the anime didn't portray is the passage of time. Shion has been hiding for weeks. The baseball practice itself is only on Sundays. So, I believe it was 3+ weeks where Shion didn't see Satoshi at all. She was very surprised of how much he changed when she saw him at school. And regardless of Mion's warning to leave him alone for now, Shion couldn't hold her feelings back. So she was extremely shocked when Satoshi acted cold towards her. Initially, Shion didn't have any intentions to harm Satoko, but when Satoko started crying out for Ni-ni
Shion just snap taking out all her frustration that's been building over the weeks onto her.
Another thing the anime doesn't do very well (or avoided doing) is the portrayal of the characters' emotions (besides the "i'm-gonna-try-to-look-scary-at-every-chance-I-get" anger). Besides the lack of Shion's monologues, which would've provided a view into her mental workings and explain how she came to reach the conclusions she did (rather than "suddenly" blowing up on Satoko, and "suddenly" wishing for Satako and her aunt to die, etc.), the anime also avoided "tear scenes". To be honest, there were actually a lot of cryings in the story, but so far, I think Satoko's crying in front of Irie's clinic in the final Tatarigoroshi-hen episode was the only normal crying scene they did so far.

These scenes are quite important because they provide you with critical insights on how the character is feeling at the time. When Shion finally got to see Satoshi again at Hinamizawa's school (after weeks of seperation, like LostBlue said), she was crushed when Satoshi treated her coldly. Shion was crying and begging him to tell her what's going on, but even then, Satoshi completely rejected her. And when Satoko began crying later, that sadness turned into pure anger directed at her.

Wouldn't the episode have a much larger impact if it was done that way?

Another thing I wished the anime should have done is kept Shion's monologue here... Shion had her survival instincts kick in while having this talk with Rena. Shion's instincts told her never to cross paths with Rena. Yea, Rena scared the crap out of her. Also just for time reference, Rena just moved back at this time.
The lack of monologue is definitely going to hurt this chapter, especially certain final scenes at the Sonozaki main house...
Hopefully they'll keep the monologues for at least that scene.

...Then again, seeing this anime's track record so far, the fact that it's actually possible scares me :upset:

keke

2006-07-25, 19:49

Hmm... So Shion has been secretly living around Hinamizawa pretending to be Shion when she goes out. In chapter 2, it seems everyone knows Shion. At least we see that Takano, Oishi, and others know Shion. But why is it that Rena never knew her? When K1 mentions Shion, Rena said she didn't know Mion had a younger sister at all. Mion says that Shion lives in Okinomiya, which is where Oishi is from.

Perhaps the citizens of Hinamizawa don't know about Shion? In episode 16, we see that Shion was 'suppose' to be killed at birth since having twins would be troublesome. Perhaps Shion's birth was kept hidden from the citizens of Hinamizawa, since the Sonozaki family hold such importance there. That could explain why outsiders like Oishi and Tomitake know Shion, and Takano being kind of a snoop and knowing Tomitake might have that kind of information. But it seems Dr. Irie also knows her. She's even the manager of the Hinamizawa baseball team!

So probably Shion has officially revealed herself to the public before K1 moved to Hinamizawa. Maybe Rena doesn't know about Shion because she's kind of dumb and maybe mixes Mion and Shion together into 1 person when they are both there. Too bad we never see the other girls talk about Shion or even ever meet her except when they think she's Mion. So perhaps they are also oblivious to Shion's existance. But I guess some of them would know, especially Satako since she would probably act coldly to Mion, unless she knew it was Shion that beat her up. But do we ever really even see Satako talking with Mion alone?

LostBlue

2006-07-25, 20:43

At this pt in the story almost no one knows who Shion is or that Mion had a twin besides people within the Sonozaki. Rena just moved back into town around the time Satoshi stop coming to the baseball practice. No one including Mion, knew much about Rena at this point. Rika has heard of a Shion, but never met her as Shion is not allowed at the Gosanke meetings. Kimiyoshi-san however has met and loves Shion. That's pretty much the extent of it. Both Shion and Mion lived in Okinomiya with their parents through most of their childhood so it isn't strange that the vast majority of the people in Hinamizawa do not know who Shion is.

Tidbit:
Shion's name has meaning just like Mion's (although not as meaningful). Shion was given the character 寺 (Shrine) in her name 詩音. This was to signify that Shion was predetermine to be sent off away from the family. In the old days in Japan, parents did abandon their childern at shrines to be raised away with little to no contact with the family again (overly simplified, I know).

Tidbit 2:
詩 (Shi) = Poem
魅 (Mi) = Charm, enchant
音 (On) = Sound

Alu

2006-07-25, 20:43

Another thing I wished the anime should have done is kept Shion's monologue here... Shion had her survival instincts kick in while having this talk with Rena. Shion's instincts told her never to cross paths with Rena. Yea, Rena scared the crap out of her. Also just for time reference, Rena just moved back at this time.

hmmmm.. Just why is Shion realy scared of Rena.. ? From what I could conclude Shion has real belief in the Oyashiro-sama's curse.., thus when meeting up with Rena and after that conversation it would be natural that she'd simply rather stay away from her..; but this would imply that she was not afraid of her prior to that moment.

Had she ever met Rena before she was sent to that private school ?, This would have been of course, before Rena had moved out and then moved in again.

Thing is according to the TIPS (and despite Keiichi had not asked Rena about it) it only showed us that Rika knew of Shion's existence.., and well.. in Watanagashi-hen when Keiichi first questions Mion about Shion.., Rena seems surprised as if she did not know of her existance aswell.

BUT.., Rena did play a Key role in the last episode of Watanagashi-hen.., upon entering the Sonozaki house and sitting down with Keiichi to talk with Mion(Shion).., she Clearly saw that that was in fact Shion and quickly caught her act, specialy from the moment she even says that it isn't necessary for her to show the tattoo; since she knew that her beeing Shion she wouldn't have it.
So she rather just letted the story play along, probably to see how far it would go.

It feels strange to me that.. if Rena had actualy never met Shion how could she tell ?, Was it all instinct ? Was it aswell the same reason why Shion was afraid to cross path with Rena, only pure and natural instinct ?

Besides the lack of Shion's monologues, which would've provided a view into her mental workings and explain how she came to reach the conclusions she did (rather than "suddenly" blowing up on Satoko, and "suddenly" wishing for Satako and her aunt to die, etc.), the anime also avoided "tear scenes"

Oh.., it is a shame indeed.., I did not know they where ment to exist, but I clearly see or imagine the diference they would make, not to mencione the impact.
Much like you said.., it would realy provide us with a much bigger in-sight on how Shion's mentality works.., and what where the trigger moments that compeld her actions in the way that they did.

Never the less though, if one pays extreamly attention to the details I belive the anime is giving good foundation to lay down good speculations about the possible reasons that made her act as such.

Altough.., I now miss not seeing the inner monologues aswell :p

Darklightz

2006-07-25, 21:13

This episode was very interesting.

Also it was very cruel and manipulative when Rena said to Shion that Satoshi didn't want to help his sister anymore.It's like Rena said to Shion "Satoshi wants someone to free him from the misery of helping Satoko"Will Shion go crazy like Keichii?Will she attempt to murder Satoko?This serie keeps getting better and better!

FatPianoBoy

2006-07-25, 21:17

Never the less though, if one pays extreamly attention to the details I belive the anime is giving good foundation to lay down good speculations about the possible reasons that made her act as such.

Indeed. I haven't been through the game (yet), but I didn't have any trouble filling in the blanks and inferring her train of thought. In fact, I was waiting for her to snap when Satoko started bawling.
I think it would be more informative with the monologues, but it would really break up the flow and steal time from other things that need to be shown, so I can sympathize with the reasoning behind dropping them.

LostBlue

2006-07-25, 21:42

hBUT.., Rena did play a Key role in the last episode of Watanagashi-hen.., upon entering the Sonozaki house and sitting down with Keiichi to talk with Mion(Shion).., she Clearly saw that that was in fact Shion and quickly caught her act, specialy from the moment she even says that it isn't necessary for her to show the tattoo; since she knew that her beeing Shion she wouldn't have it.
So she rather just letted the story play along, probably to see how far it would go.

It feels strange to me that.. if Rena had actualy never met Shion how could she tell ?, Was it all instinct ? Was it aswell the same reason why Shion was afraid to cross path with Rena, only pure and natural instinct ?

Game Tidbit

Rena had a talk with Keiichi before going into the Sonozaki Honke. Rena thought that Mion has cornered herself mentally and the news they were about to bring (We know, and the police do to, and they're just outside waiting for you) might push her over the edge. Rena was afraid that Mion might commit suicide so she wanted to convince Mion to turn herself in and make that process as delicate as possible or that's at least that was conversation that Rena had with Keiichi just before stepping inside. Rena's thought process won't be revealed until later in the show.

I still stand by my stance that Rena ( 鉈女) is scary.

The lack of monologue is definitely going to hurt this chapter, especially certain final scenes at the Sonozaki main house...
Hopefully they'll keep the monologues for at least that scene.

...Then again, seeing this anime's track record so far, the fact that it's actually possible scares me :upset:
T_T that's one of three scenes in this chapter that I'm really looking forward to... That monologue is the most memorable scene for me in this Arc. I only hope they do the Kejime and the Satoko scene well... but I'm sure they'll excel at the kitchen scene

Alu

2006-07-25, 22:44

Game Tidbit

Rena had a talk with Keiichi before going into the Sonozaki Honke. Rena thought that Mion has cornered herself mentally and the news they were about to bring (We know, and the police do to, and they're just outside waiting for you) might push her over the edge. Rena was afraid that Mion might commit suicide so she wanted to convince Mion to turn herself in and make that process as delicate as possible or that's at least that was conversation that Rena had with Keiichi just before stepping inside. Rena's thought process won't be revealed until later in the show.

Oh, thank you, thank you :D
I guess I will have to wait for the next arc in order to understand Rena's full thought process which lead her to take the actions she did then.

I've been trying to find in the episodes some small tips here and there on Rena for a while now regarding this, special since everything about her is still pretty vague..; and I also haven't been able to make any solid judgments or speculations on why and how her actions are driven because of it, unlike those I was able to pull through regarding Shion & Mion

Hopefully the last arc will answer most of this :)

I still stand by my stance that Rena ( 鉈女) is scary.
And also.., to give more in-sight reasons for your stance ;)

Keriaku

2006-07-26, 06:20

Alu

2006-07-27, 03:26

I don't think this is a spoiler, because it was shown at the beginning of Watangashi, but I'll put it in spoiler tags just in case...

What I want to know is what Shion does to get Rika to kill herself (the scene (I assume) from this chater that was shown at the beginning of Waanagashi). I think Shion will end up killing, or being the reason Satoko dies, and it will push Rika over the edge or something. Or is has to do with Rika knowning she's going to be killed in the next year.

Let us not forget that Shion first lured Rika over as to probably make Satoko come to the Sonozaki House.., or it is what I belive was the reason for she to summon Rika over first.

It is very possible that Shion first "atended" to "taking care" of Sakoto as soon as this one arrived to the House.., and probably had just kept Rika a prisioner meantime.

We now know that it was Shion dressed as Mion when she went along with Keiichi and Rena to Rika's & Satoko's house in search for them; we know this because.., during the moment where Keiichi climbs up the ladder and starts to mencione Satoko, Shion(passing off as Mion) goes compleatly berserk about Satoko beeing a burder on Satoshi and how she was the reason his life was compleatly ruined.

Probably after this scene when she then returned home she found Rika about to stab herself as we saw in the begining of Watanagashi-hen.
Still what are the real reasons for this I am not sure.., as in.. what realy drove Rika to do that..

It might simply be that she did not wish to have the same fate as Satoko did, or that she'd rather take her own life then to leave it in the hands of what would happen to her as we saw in Tatarigoroshi-hen.
Either way.. Rika will die just as she predicted she would, that so far is the only sure thing I know regarding her :p

oh.. and Keriaku, all of this happened previously so.., I belive there is no need for the spoiler tags :).

Deathkillz

2006-07-27, 09:00

Alu

2006-07-27, 10:00

knowing that shion is a psyco...i can believe that the person standing in front of rika while she was stabbing herself was indeed shion...but why would satoko show up even if rika was lured to mion's house?

Tsk, tsk Death, you should be paying more attention if you missed out on something like this :p

Just kidding ;) , Rika went to the Sonozaki House to deliver a huge jar of Soy Sauce she had in her house; later then Shion(passing as Mion) probably was the one to phone Satoko at her house and say that Rika had dropped by and was having dinner here, thus asking Satoko to drop by and join them.

Which was the reason why Satoko left 2 meals in the fridge.., something that she had done for when Rika returned.., but since Rika was "having dinner" in the Sonozaki House and Satoko herself was then asked to join her..., she naturaly went along and saved the food for later.

Remember.., Satoko doesn't know she had met Shion ever before, she only knows Mion.., and the real Mion doesn't have "that grudge" against her as Shion does..; Thus naturaly to Satoko.., Mion is her friend, so she had no reasons to be afraid on not to come join them for dinner..; specialy if Rika was there aswell.

Its all in episodes 7 & the begining of 8, you can't miss it :heh:

Keriaku

2006-07-27, 12:54

Remember.., Satoko doesn't know she had met Shion ever before, she only knows Mion.., and the real Mion doesn't have "that grudge" against her as Shion does..; Thus naturaly to Satoko.., Mion is her friend, so she had no reasons to be afraid on not to come join them for dinner..; specialy if Rika was there aswell.

Its all in episodes 7 & the begining of 8, you can't miss it :heh:

Well after what just happened in episode 16 with Shion pretending to be Mion (in the school), you'd think they wouldn't be as good friends. If one of my friends did that to me, I don't think we'd be friends again....

Sinestra

2006-07-27, 16:48

Excellent episode for the new chapter plus the creepy opening scene with Shion carrying a tazer and dragging Mion by the hair was cool it looked like the head of Sonozaki family was unconcious in the corner as well. Seeing this side of Shion was a change in the previous chapters it was all Mion. I did not expect some of the things that happen here for one watching Shion beat the living piss out of Satoko really surprised me her eyes were like that of an animal, it was almost like her feelings for Satoshi were so strong she snapped. Does anyone know why Satoshi was nice to Shion amd helped her when he hates the Sonozaki family? i get the feeling so bad shit is going to happen in the next episode

Did anyone else read this http://www.badongo.com/pic/246458

FatPianoBoy

2006-07-27, 17:14

watching Shion beat the living piss out of Satoko really surprised me her eyes were like that of an animal, it was almost like her feelings for Satoshi were so strong she snapped. Does anyone know why Satoshi was nice to Shion amd helped her when he hates the Sonozaki family? i get the feeling so bad shit is going to happen in the next episode.

Yup, she totally snapped. I thought it was great, since I've wanted to do the same to her since Tatarigoroshi. Whiney little brat, she is.
Satoshi probably rescued her because he doesn't like watching people get picked on, no matter who it is.

Me too.

Deathkillz

2006-07-27, 19:50

Tsk, tsk Death, you should be paying more attention if you missed out on something like this :p

Just kidding ;) , Rika went to the Sonozaki House to deliver a huge jar of Soy Sauce she had in her house; later then Shion(passing as Mion) probably was the one to phone Satoko at her house and say that Rika had dropped by and was having dinner here, thus asking Satoko to drop by and join them.

Which was the reason why Satoko left 2 meals in the fridge.., something that she had done for when Rika returned.., but since Rika was "having dinner" in the Sonozaki House and Satoko herself was then asked to join her..., she naturaly went along and saved the food for later.

Remember.., Satoko doesn't know she had met Shion ever before, she only knows Mion.., and the real Mion doesn't have "that grudge" against her as Shion does..; Thus naturaly to Satoko.., Mion is her friend, so she had no reasons to be afraid on not to come join them for dinner..; specialy if Rika was there aswell.

Its all in episodes 7 & the begining of 8, you can't miss it :heh:

goddammit my brain is crap at analyzing >.< exellent theory completely clicked in thx :)

Fishbait

2006-07-27, 22:31

This show is so amazing!

Must get back some of the earlier episodes that I had to delete to make room since so many things make more sense now or look COMPLETLY different now after this episode

Shinova

2006-07-27, 23:11

This show is so amazing!

Must get back some of the earlier episodes that I had to delete to make room since so many things make more sense now or look COMPLETLY different now after this episode

You should've been burning those onto CDs or DVDs instead!!!:p

Alu

2006-07-28, 04:55

Well after what just happened in episode 16 with Shion pretending to be Mion (in the school), you'd think they wouldn't be as good friends. If one of my friends did that to me, I don't think we'd be friends again....

I probably am not the best person to respond to this.., since after all I did not play the game and alot of things still puzzle me.., however.., my take on this aspect is as follows..

Satoko had Always been dependant on Satoshi as we could see.., at the mere minor incident she would cry out for her Nii-nii in an instant.., so in a way Shion's prespective regarding Satoko "taking the life away" from Satoshi was somewhat true..; altough this is also due to Satoko's aunt's constant abuse, which Satoshi always toke to protect Satoko.

In the end.., after Satoshi "transfered", and Satoko's aunt was murdered, she ended up beeing all alone, this despite living with Rika..., I ment "alone" as in she lost all of the people she loved in her family (father, mother & brother), which naturaly this stripped her of anyone she could depend on; or as in the way she did anyway.

Its true that Satoko must have gathered a tremendous huge amount of mental strenght to live out each day after Satoshi went away.., and adding to what happened to her parents and how they where so punished for they're choice.., Satoko realy must have struggled each day just to see it come to and end and await the next.

All of this made her the Satoko we saw in the present time, cooking for Keiichi and all.., she had no longer become dependant on anyone nor was she crying all the time for such small things as she did.
And all of this happened in the time-spam of 1 year so.., it definitly was a tremendous change in caracter for her.

Never the less.., what drives her on.., and this we got to see while witnessing Keiichi's and doctor Irei's conversation in Tatarigoroshi-hen... Its Satoshi.

Satoko now herself feels that she realy was a burden to her Nii-nii, that she depended too much on him.., and in her own mind, that was why Satoshi left her all lone and went away.
So.., in order for Satoshi to return, she feels that she must gather strenght and endure all the tests she can as to prove herself that she is no longer so much dependable on those she loved.
And she belives this so blindly that like we saw in Tatarigoroshi-hen.., she would refuse and would not admit the abuse that her Uncle was submiting her too.., for doing that would mean she lost and Satoshi would not return to her.

So, given all of this probably that "incident" between her and Shion(passing as Mion) is probably so irrelevant that she by chances forgot about it.., or in fact.., after Satoshi's dissapearence.., she viewed Shion's words as in the reasons why he realy left; which would explain why she then blamed herself so much.

All and all we also saw Mion talking over the phone to Shion after that incident.., and in which Mion said something like "it will be allright"..; thus probably Mion herself then found some excuse or apologised to Satoko for what had happened and they became "more" friends after that.

Which then adding all that happened to Satoko.., its natural that she ended up good friends with Mion as we saw.., for she had been through so much, that surely Mion had conforted her many times.
Mion is in fact a good person at heart.

But all and all I stress that the main reason why Satoko went to the Sonozaki House that day was because Rika was there aswell, and as she was told.., was having dinner there and would like her to join them.
Not taking away the fact that Satoko and Mion where indeed good friends now.., if Rika had not been there Satoko would probably not have gone over that night.

This is just my point of view on this.., like I said.., someone who has played the game can probably answer you better ;)

LostBlue

2006-07-28, 10:26

hmmm... concerning the Hojou family...

1) the reason why Satoko cried: b/c she spill her lunchbox which is an offense that her Aunt or Uncle would literally beat her for.

2) Satoko is pretty broken mentally right now. Small things will trigger her outburst of crying.

3) Possibly Satoko forgot about this incident. Most likely all the things Shion did in this EP is NOTHING compared to what Satoko has to go through EVERYDAY at her house, physically or mentally. I mean think about it. A girl hitting her and throwing text books at her or Teppei using her as a punching bag outlet for frustration (+ we know everyone in Hinamizawa is an Olympian :rolleyes: ) while her Aunt yells at her constantly all the way past midnight every night (See TIPs). Shion's little outburst probably wasn't all that much compared to Satoko has been experiencing everyday for the past year, but yea, that chair was a bit too far...

Now see Satoshi's position in all this. He has to put up with this everyday shielding Satoko...

--

Actually, I wonder what Mion said to everyone else to cover herself up. She did a pretty good job of it looking at everyone else's reaction after this.

aliensporebomb

2006-07-28, 15:28

This show is messing with my head:

I think this story arc literally freaked me out a bit:

I had a dream where Mion was in it,
at least, I think she was Mion instead of Shion.

In the dream I was apparently confessing to her and she was
fine with (in a sort of almost creepy way) it but grandma wasn't
and it was extremely disturbing to wake up going:

"WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?"

I think my fingers were going to be snapped off or something.

Maybe I need to watch some happy good time anime?

Thanks for explaining why Satoko went all waterfalling after her lunch
spilled.

You think that Shion would have been a little smarter though, if she
really wanted to get on Satoshi's good side she could have helped
Satoko out but she was a little too selfish/jealous to do that.

LostBlue

2006-07-28, 16:56

Shion herself is in a tight position.

She can't "exist" in the Hinamizawa area. For her to go out, she must assume Mion's identity, but to pull it off effectively Mion can't be wandering off outside the at same time. So they call each other. Whenever Mion is free she'll go over to Shion's house and Shion can become Mion working outside. Without Mion's cooperation Shion can't step outside of her apartment building. One screw up and she'll have the Sonozaki Yakuza members dragging her in-front of Sonozaki Oryou. And Oryou is scary. I mean really scary. I mean REALLY scary.

Satoshi-kun's kindness moved her. She meets him randomly every so often outside, but she can't tell him who she is. Eventually Shion learns every Sunday he goes to baseball practice down in Okinomiya. She couldn't hold back her desire to be with him and goes to the practices w/o telling Mion (although Mion catches on pretty quickly to cover for her).

Many people blame Shion for not helping Satoko, but Shion isn't in the position to help her. Shion avoids going to Hinamizawa at all costs (so she really took a chance going to the school in this arc). Heck, she can barely even meet with Satoshi when she wants to. When she does meet with him, she tries her best to to ease him, but that's all that she can do... I'm sure that frustration was building on her. Not being able to help or ease the one you love and thing you can do is see him slowly degenerate.

When she finally meets with him again at the school (again this is after weeks of separation) his attitude towards her crushed her. I think in Shion's mind she knows she can't do much for Satoshi, but Satoko who's always around him can, but instead Satoko is causing him more pain. That's why Shion just burst out on Satoko. If only Satoko will "man up" at bit, take care of herself, and not push all her troubles on Satoshi, then Shion can do something for him. All Shion wants to do is love and care for Satoshi, but her feeling can't reach him b/c Satoko selfish pleas hurts Satoshi. Shion went to help Satoko clean up... and what happens? Satoko calls out for Ni-Ni over a trivial task that's already been taken care of... That attitude, that selfishness for wanting Ni-Ni to do every for her is what made Shion snap.

Again, I'll reiterate. Shion has only spends a limited time outside her apartment. When she does get the chance to go outside, Shion can't be "Shion" and must be "Mion." Shion has to spend most of this limited time she gets on making a living or purchasing food and other needs. If she is lucky she gets to see Satoshi (rare). Until she finds out about the baseball practice, which this joy was short-lived as Satoshi stops going to it. She spends weeks worrying sick about him and when she finally sees him, Satoshi gives her the F'you attitude. Shion was definitely wasn't thinking straight with her heart wrentched when she directed her anger at Satoko.

Matrim

2006-07-28, 18:35

What I really want to know is why Shion stopped keeping a low profile by the time of the events in Watanagashi-hen. Although after rewatching bits of episode five and six the only people who clearly saw Mion and Shion together were K1, Ooishi, Takano and Tomitake and the latter three are not exactly what I would call your average Hinamizawa villagers. But if Shion kept the low profile why did she tell Keiichi about herself? Not wanting to repeat the mistake she did with Satoshi?

When she finally meets with him again at the school (again this is after weeks of separation) his attitude towards her crushed her. I think in Shion's mind she knows she can't do much for Satoshi, but Satoko who's always around him can, but instead Satoko is causing him more pain. That's why Shion just burst out on Satoko. If only Satoko will "man up" at bit, take care of herself, and not push all her troubles on Satoshi, then Shion can do something for him. All Shion wants to do is love and care for Satoshi, but her feeling can't reach him b/c Satoko selfish pleas hurts Satoshi. Shion went to help Satoko clean up... and what happens? Satoko calls out for Ni-Ni over a trivial task that's already been taken care of... That attitude, that selfishness for wanting Ni-Ni to do every for her is what made Shion snap.

I think Shion's behaviour made sense. Some people have a low tolerance for crying children and although most don't go as far as Shion (thank goodness), with her being under so much pressure from various sides no wonder her reaction was so extreme.