Second Term Episode 16 Discussion [Archive]

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Catgirls

2006-07-22, 19:02

Welcome to this week's episode of School Rumble Second Term. In the future we'll try and create the thread before each weekend ready for when the episode airs.

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Wait, does the Bloody Mary Faction mean what I think it means

...will get you this...

Wait, does the Bloody Mary Faction mean what I think it means :eyespin:

eggplant

2006-07-23, 12:26

Ah, yes! You just gotta love the flag faction!
The Harima x Eri episode done in the literal flag faction way: without Eri knowing Harima was around him the whole time. Haha, to be mistaken for Harima must have been hard enough on Mikoto, but to top it off with a cheese cut:eyespin:

Lol, lots of Eri service, Miko-chin sweetness, and the Yoshidayama twintail punch line. Well, so much for any onigiri development...

Too bad for the avant section, Youko (being voiced by Hirano Aya) sounds too much like Suzumiya Haruhi. Then again, Eri is Horie Yui no matter how you hear it, thus making Mikoto's seiyuu, Nabatame Hitomi ,the most versatile, as seen from her recent roles in Joshikousei, Magipoka, Strawberry Panic, and Muteki Kanban Musume.

I'm still waiting for the new ending song to play, which was supposed to have aired from the July episodes (technically, next week is still July though).

Potatochobit

2006-07-23, 22:31

episode 16 was good but hard to leave an impression after watching 15. hopefully 17 will tie alot of the loose ends in 15 and 16 and should be great.

ichigoismyhomie

2006-07-24, 02:26

episode 16 was good but hard to leave an impression after watching 15. hopefully 17 will tie alot of the loose ends in 15 and 16 and should be great.

i agreed wit potatochobit. I think both ep 15 and 16 leave a lot more to expect from both factions. i wish this season will be end with a suupeer duuppper huuuuugeee misunderstanding that will definitely give the open road for 3rd season. maybe by then harima will have the balls to say what he wants, or eri will have the guts to do the same thing.

Kinda sad for harima getting kicked out by the one he loves. tenma with her super stubborn attitude. i'm surprised why yakumo wasn't reading tenma's mind and trying to figure out a solution for harima. Maybe her love wasn't that deeep as many of you think.

I wonder how will eri can penetrate harima's hardened heart.

Freeter

2006-07-24, 12:29

Episode definitely felt rushed...they really need to slow down. Hopefully they'll take their time with next ep's "big moment"...

ichigoismyhomie

2006-07-24, 22:54

eri chan got back dimples......me likey..........hhehehehehe

Truth-kun

2006-07-25, 02:41

Just watched the raws..

Since I'm a flagger, I gave this an automatic 10 for being a vital flag episode. This won't be the best flag episode yet (I'm thinking its going to be Ep17!), but still it comes close to second.

This is probably another one of those stick to the manga episode, since I barely saw any SR-type parodies. Oh, theres one parody I saw that was extremely funny: Tenma looking like one of those girls in Higurashi, with the knife and all. Kinda creepy in a way, but its Tenma, and Tenma is always funny.

I love the background music, especially during the tissue scene with Harima and Mikoto. Its kinda sweet, but not romantically sweet. Though at some point while I was watching it (and also reading the manga), I kinda wished for a Harima x Mikoto faction to materialize, but for sure that is only wishful thinking.

This is the episode that I really fell in-love with Mikoto. She is cute, kind, kinda rough and yet so sweet. :heh:. I love it when she helps other people, really. It pulls my heartstrings a little :P.

In any case, I don't see why this episode isn't that good as we are expecting it to be. Its the climax build-up episode, and for sure the climax will be on Episode 17. Gotta love this Christmas Arc XD.

EDIT: The partly naked Eri scenes might even push me to give this episode an Eleven out of Ten! Hahaha.

kenjiharima

2006-07-26, 03:40

I havent seen the raw yet hope it is as funny as the manga version!

KiM02

2006-07-26, 07:16

Truth-kun

2006-07-26, 09:38

i just finished with the raw and i do agree that its a vital episode to some kind of a huge event coming up (maybe episode 17)? however due to my absolutely 0 understanding of japanese T.T may i ask that whether eri's reason for having to leave for england was to marry someone which the her family pre arranged? any help would be very much appreciated ^^ many thanks

Eri didn't exactly say she's leaving for England, I think. But if she did, I'm sure it would be about the pre-arranged marriage that her parents are forcing her to do. While I watched this, I used the manga for reference on the dialogues, so I pretty much know whats going on. If you can find the manga reference, then you might understand this episode better ^.^

Swampstorm

2006-07-26, 10:06

If they use a three chapter format for next episode, then this arc will extend into Ep.18.

I wonder how will eri can penetrate harima's hardened heart.
That's a story for next episode. :D

i just finished with the raw and i do agree that its a vital episode to some kind of a huge event coming up (maybe episode 17)? however due to my absolutely 0 understanding of japanese T.T may i ask that whether eri's reason for having to leave for england was to marry someone which the her family pre arranged? any help would be very much appreciated ^^ many thanks
Eri has to attend an "omiai." It's a meeting with a potential suitor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omiai

After being born in Kyoto, Eri moved to England until high school, which is when she returned to Japan. From what I understand, after the engagement is finalized, she is to accompany her mother back to England.

While nothing is established as of yet, her parents will want her to get married to whomever they have chosen, and Eri doesn't want to oppose their wishes, despite having to sacrifice her personal desires in the process. She lies to Mikoto, telling her that it isn't a problem, and that she'll simply refuse the offer.

This ties back to the little Eri sequence back in Ep.15 as well. Despite consistantly being a reliable friend to others in their times of need, Eri isn't used to relying on her friends for help - she tackles problems on her own. With regards to Eri, this story arc serves to show her the strength of the friendships that she has.

This particular storyline is a little different from most. Usually, Harima x Eri interactions are written from Eri's perspective - she is aware of what's going on, but he isn't. This time around, the situation is reversed, with some very interesting effects. :)

LCeh

2006-07-26, 21:28

This episode rocked. I am just highly anticipating for the moment Eri finds out that Harima was the worker. That should make for some great comedy, and drama as well. Glad not to be a manga reader so that I don't know what's coming. ;)

kauldron26

2006-07-26, 22:44

thundrakkon

2006-07-26, 22:59

This episode was good, but it wasn't at funny after the hilarious highs of the last episode. However, it was a good build up of drama.

Miko was really sweet in this episode. I am beginning to really like her after seeing this side of her. She is just one of those people who you really are lucky to have around when you are in need.

Eri did not appear like her usual self in this episode. Usually a lot more perceptive, she seems clueless and non-chalant at times. I guess it has to do with the drama surrounding her right now, but it still feels like its not really her in this episode.

i'm surprised why yakumo wasn't reading tenma's mind and trying to figure out a solution for harima. Maybe her love wasn't that deeep as many of you think.

Yakumo only reads people's minds when they exhibit strong desire/love for her. Tenma was only thinking about how to keep Harima away, so it did not fit the criteria necessary for Yakumo to read her mind. Besides, Yakumo has not read anyone's all season long. Besides, she was trying her best to ask what is going on and keep Harima, but Tenma was too stubborn, and as older sister, had the right kick him out. As a traditional woman (Yakumo), you don't defy your elder's (in this case, Tenma) decisions in the Asian culture, even if you don't agree with it.

kenjiharima

2006-07-26, 23:15

Forever

2006-07-26, 23:48

WOW!! Just saw the raw, its a great, its funny! Lots of Eri service and Harima too!
I'm just sad to see harima getting kicked out of the tsukamoto household T_T

If the series continues, I hope to see a Samurai Harima VS Max fight!!

At the rate their going, they have to include the kyoto arc, else we might actually see some fillers...

gimmecash

2006-07-27, 00:45

I know why SR has no ending, the author wants more money. Anyways, great episode with some fanservice... yum. Nooo... I wanted more Yakumo and Harima within the Tsukamoto household. There isn't much to discuss about this episode since everything is straightfoward. However, it seems like Mikoto likes Harima...

kenjiharima

2006-07-27, 01:42

These two parts made me laughed out the most. On Eri's part my was nose bleeding. :D

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f154/harimadez/harimaout.jpg

Truth-kun

2006-07-27, 01:48

However, it seems like Mikoto likes Harima...

Nah, Mikoto is only being Mikoto. :D.

Mizuno

2006-07-27, 02:45

Harima doesn't look too bad without the glasses.

It was a good episode, more drama than comedy. Kind of a different taste than usual, but it's still good and now I can't wait for ep 17. Harima is going to see a different side of Eri.

Some funny parts.
1) Itoko and Yoko being playful at night. :heh:
2) Harima fart in the bath. :eyespin:
3) The guy with the Eri fetish got a can of whooparse. :D

Mikoto is a bit violent, but she's there for her friends when they need her. She is really sweet in this episode.

ub96

2006-07-27, 02:49

I've always considered myself on the onigiri faction side....but after this episode and what could happen in 17, i just dunno anymore :confused:

i might have to become a flagger~

DrewGSR

2006-07-27, 03:09

Hahaha, this episode was great. Harima farting i the bath was hilarious. Looking forward to next weeks ep. I definately enjoyed it since im a Harima x Eri fan.

Harima did look pretty cool without his sunglasses. They need to change his hair back to the short spiked hair look which he had after Eri shaved his head in season 1. I think that was his best look. Short spiked hair style with or without sunglases would make him pimp.

Maximum Burst

2006-07-27, 07:30

Short spiked hair style with or without sunglases would make him pimp.

Unfortunately, he'll probably never do that because he'd look like how he was when he had that bad experience with Tenma all those years ago, and that's something he's been trying to hide from her.

Shredder

2006-07-27, 07:32

They need to change his hair back to the short spiked hair look which he had after Eri shaved his head in season 1. I think that was his best look. Short spiked hair style with or without sunglases would make him pimp.Short spiked was tight, like when he was younger. I like the shades though, they distinguish him from everyone else. This ep was fun overall, however some of Eri's parts were kinda serious. I want to see some more of her usual smartass self. Great turn in the series though, it's flag time! Miko also grew on me in this ep, as she did in the date/arcade ep. I like her a lot, although maybe in a friendly sense.

I agree with what someone else said that Eri wasn't herself in this ep--she's been out of it for several eps now. I suspected there was some kind of marriage thing going on; was she meeting some suitor at the nice restaurant several eps ago? I don't think Miko likes Harima at all, she's just being a mischievous matchmaker between mutual friends, as girls are prone to do. It's def Miko/Asou as a side pairing.

I thought I saw some Eri blush in the next ep--can't wait! I think Tenma's funny as hell, I'm having temptations to defect to Correct Path faction unless Eri starts to show some pizazz. I'm not too cool with all the depression and funk stuff. Oh I forgot though, she doesn't know it's Harima yet. Here's to ep17 then

Deathkillz

2006-07-27, 09:45

soo late but ive finally watched it >.< it was great...
itoko at the start was hot :love: but then a snowman O.o
tenma is as cold hearted as ever...psyco look in her eyes while sharpening that knife...
i cried for eri >.< she is so obviously in love with harima...welldone for miko to ask that question :p
i loved eri in this ep...even tho shes depressed i know things would turn out in the end :) harima just needs to cheer her up...and next ep wtf "fake bride" O.o

Swampstorm

2006-07-27, 09:52

As happy as i am about this episode, i just hope the story goes somewhere and doesnt end up being a whole bg misunderstanding and then everyone goes back to their daily lives with some funny stuff here and there. As much as i love this show, i want to see characters grow. for 40 episodes now its all Tenma-chan, Tenma-chan, Tenma-chan. If Harima doesnt start growing im just going to give up on the show. i love Harima and School rumble, what makes an anime great are its characters and their growth. For 40 episodes its all "will harima confess?? will harima confess, wll harma confess, will harima confess?? its becoming episodic. But thankfully this episode opens the door to new possibilities, and im really happy. If everything past this episode doesnt affect any character in anyway, and its back to the same old formula and antics, then i guess im off the School Rumble boat. Great ride though.... i just want a destination.
If you're viewing the entire series with the assumption that Tenma is the main protagonist, then you're probably not going to see very much progress. Tenma is primarily a comic character, and much of the humor associated with her character depends on Tenma behaving in the usual, predictable way. As a result, the episodes where her character gets the spotlight (especially the early episodes of Season 1) tend to have the feel of a gag series (like Azumanga). The main running plotline, however, is based around Eri's character, which starts at around Ep.10 of Season 1. Eri, by contrast, is a dynamic, growing character who maintains a balance of both comedy and drama. If you review the storyline from her angle, you'll find more than enough character depth and development to keep you occupied. I'd easily rank her alongside classic characters like Ayukawa Madoka of KOR in that regard.

I know why SR has no ending, the author wants more money.
Based on the available interview with KJ, I'd tend to disagree with that statement. Remember, the central conflict that was introduced from day 1 of the series was Karasuma's departure in March, at the end of the school year. Right now, the series is only in December in terms of the anime (February for the manga). Things will start coming together, soon enough.

Yakumo only reads people's minds when they exhibit strong desire/love for her. Tenma was only thinking about how to keep Harima away, so it did not fit the criteria necessary for Yakumo to read her mind. Besides, Yakumo has not read anyone's all season long. Besides, she was trying her best to ask what is going on and keep Harima, but Tenma was too stubborn, and as older sister, had the right kick him out. As a traditional woman (Yakumo), you don't defy your elder's (in this case, Tenma) decisions in the Asian culture, even if you don't agree with it.
There aren't any consistant rules that govern when Yakumo's mind reading ability kicks in. For the most part, it's a plot device that kicks in whenever the mangaka sees fit. Yakumo could read Tenma's mind when she had to choose between the two ingredient cards in Season 1, and yet there was no strong love/desire present at that point in time.

While I'm aware that Yakumo was initially introduced in the series as the ideal traditional woman, I think it's an oversimplification to say that she strictly adheres to that standard (as a matter of fact, I also think that there's another character that fits that stereotype more closely, but I'll leave that one for next week ;) ). Yakumo does question Tenma's ideas and rebels against them on a number of occasions throughout the series. As you saw in the incident concerning the editor in S2 Ep.15 and the dog in the OVAs, Yakumo is more than capable of taking action when it suits her. For the most part, however, she doesn't feel the need to rebel against the requests of others. You'll probably need to view the storyline about the Tsukamoto sisters' childhood if you want to understand the underlying nature of their relationship. It's quite different from what you might expect.

Eri did not appear like her usual self in this episode. Usually a lot more perceptive, she seems clueless and non-chalant at times. I guess it has to do with the drama surrounding her right now, but it still feels like its not really her in this episode.
You're right about the fact that Eri seems different. A significant portion of this story arc is dedicated towards challenging many of our prior perceptions of Eri's character. Early on in the series, many of us were initially led to believe that Eri was a selfish, spoilt, rich girl with the typical tsundere insecurities. With this episode, you see a different side to her character being brought to the forefront. The most important point to note here is Eri's overwhelming concern for everyone else's needs. Eri is worried about imposing on Mikoto, and tries to shoulder her burdens in secret. She's also concerned about her parents desires, and feels that she must sacrifice her own desires to satisfy their wishes. During the bath scene, Mikoto asks Eri about her relationship with Harima - at which point she brings up the other established pairings: Mikoto and Asou, Nagayama and Tanaka, Madoka and Shigeo - and how she envies their position, which is something that she feels is impossible for her to attain with the upcoming omiai. With these words, not only do you see the extent to which Eri has fallen in love with Harima, but you also see just how much Eri is willing to sacrifice for the happiness of others. This is selflessness - and if you look back through the series, you'll find plenty of smaller incidents which were showing just this very quality in her, all along.

Typically, Eri takes the spotlight whenever Harima is around, so most of our experiences with her involve her reacting to Harima in some form or the other. This episode gives Harima and the viewers a chance to see Eri from a fresh perspective, free from all of the initial prejudices that initially clouded our vision. Instead of her pride and her anger, we see the inner fears and troubles that she tries to conceal behind them - and we see the genuine feelings that Eri has for those around her. Eri is clueless here because she needs to be. This is so that we can see her with her guard down - to see her for who she really is. With this storyline, expect to see quite a few dogmas shattered - not just those of the viewers, but those of Harima, as well. ;)

I agree with what someone else said that Eri wasn't herself in this ep--she's been out of it for several eps now. I suspected there was some kind of marriage thing going on; was she meeting some suitor at the nice restaurant several eps ago?
The dinner in Ep.12, with an individual named Hayashi, is unrelated, to the best of my knowledge (for all we know, the guy might even be her father). Eri's dinner was not a part of the original manga. If I'm not mistaken, Eri doesn't know anything about her potential suitor at this point in time.

I thought I saw some Eri blush in the next ep--can't wait! I think Tenma's funny as hell, I'm having temptations to defect to Correct Path faction unless Eri starts to show some pizazz. I'm not too cool with all the depression and funk stuff.
Eri has always been a blend of drama and comedy. Undergoing hardships and difficulty is part of the process by which she overcomes her weaknesses and insecurities, and brooding helps to build up dramatic tension for these conflicts. These story arcs follow a crisis/catharsis routine - dramatic tension is built up, and then released at the climax of the story. Even the dance at the Sports Festival was preceded by a set of difficulties that the characters had to overcome. What's more - this story is even bigger. :D

If you're mainly interested in someone to provide entertaining faces and comedy, Tenma is a more consistant choice. Personally, I'm more a fan of sap than gags, so my preference is for Eri. ;)

mangatron

2006-07-27, 11:07

You know, my favorite character is Eri-chan. At first I thought it was just her hair (refer to this (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=626375&postcount=111) post about why I think so :heh: ) Then I realized, that ever since School Rumble's birth it was just plain her. You know, her character. Her attitude. Her emotions. and this episode was very much something I've been waiting for since late in the first season. Ever since the Harima confession (manga and anime versions) I don't really recall an episode like this about Eri-chan. I'll admit I was practically cheering and laughing the whole episode. I mean, Harima without glasses, Eri-chan in the bath, and Mikoto in the mix, I really enjoyed this episode. I don't think I could've asked for more (other than a kiss between the two :heh: ), but there were some things that made me think.

-I'm kinda forgetting how Harima first looked with that mustache and goatee. Of course, I could just look in the mirror and say "oh, there's my goatee and mustache" :heh: :uhoh:
-You know, something caught my eye the moment it went on screen: a box cutter. ......yes, I said that, a box cutter. Now, you may not think how important that item is, but that moment when Mikoto threw it at Harima, I noticed it as quickly as it appeared and disappeared off screen. So what's my babbling about a box cutter? Well, I was chatting with someone on IRC (I believe it was in #aquastar-anime), and we were talking about Shuffle, reviving the KKK club with free 1/8 scale Kaede winter uniform figures:heh:, and the chat went to the point where the guy mentioned "that" box cutter. You know, the suicide weapon in the Shuffle! anime/game. Now, I'll admit, that when I first got wind of that box cutter being used in Shuffle!, that totally changed the way I view box cutters in this world. Yes, in the real world. Now I never look at box cutters the same way again. Now, everytime I see a box cutter, I think "he should've died. The bastard should stabbed, not slit. Dmn he was such an idiot :heh: " (yes, I end up chuckling to myself at the end. So, the moral of my babbling is: Shuffle!. You changed the way I view box cutters. lol.
-Itoko-sensei. Man, I just wish she was at the beach instead of the mountaintops :heh: wait, I don't have to call her sensei. I'll just call her Itoko-neechan! :heh: :heh: lolololol
-There's a crisis in the real world: There is not enough Eri-chan figures! Come on Kobayashi Jin, bribe that Monsieur Bome! :heh:
-All this that I typed, was there a single thing about the episode, or was it me ranting? :heh:

Ah, I feel like raiding the broadcast station and helping myself to episode 17 already :heh: :uhoh: :heh:

ichigoismyhomie

2006-07-27, 13:00

...and next ep wtf "fake bride" O.o

hm.....could it be eri will ask harima to be her fake husband to avoid the pre-arranged marriage? Im prety those manga people know what will happen. gaaaah.........all i can do is let my imagination running wild until ep 17 come......:(

poor hareeema.......he kept getting beat up by suou. how did suou deal with nakamura at the end? did she get beat up by nakamura or the other way around? I kinda feel sorri for yoshidayama getting beat up by that fat butler..........but why did he wear his hair like that? kinda gay

but again.................eri got back dimples............that's hot:D i love girls with back dimples......

kauldron26

2006-07-27, 13:57

even if it seems that harima and eri might end up together, with his tunnel vision for tenma, i can see the writer and director dragging this show for forever to make more money and better ratings. If u look at haimas character for the past 40 episodes towards tenma and Eri, its gonna take some huge shit for him to suddenly be into Eri. And i can see the creators of this show making that happen like 4 seasons later. ~sigh~ my biggest fear is that this show will end up becoming generic. We all watch this show, not only for the comedy and antics, but also for the characters and their journey. If they never change and keep doing the same thing over, and over, and over again, a show that i once labelled "one of the greatest animes ever" will just end up being mediocre. one can only hope that we can see some progress in character development that affects the whole show, and not insignificantly. As happy as i am about episode 16, i have some sort of dread because it might end up not meaning anything episodes down the line.

Swampstorm

2006-07-27, 14:02

poor hareeema.......he kept getting beat up by suou. how did suou deal with nakamura at the end? did she get beat up by nakamura or the other way around?
Seeing as they didn't actually meet before the end of the episode... you'll need to wait on that one.

I kinda feel sorri for yoshidayama getting beat up by that fat butler..........but why did he wear his hair like that? kinda gay
Yoshidayama's normal hairstyle is spiked up. The only times that you see him with his hair down are when he uses the public baths, in Ep.4 S2 and Ep.16 S2. I'm guessing that he ties off his hair because he lacks the hair products to spike it back up until he returns home.

but again.................eri got back dimples............that's hot:D i love girls with back dimples......
I posted a number of stitched composite screenshots for Ep.16 at WF, one of which has those back dimples. I'm not sure if I can post them here, though. :heh:

One thing I like about these later stories is that Eri (moreso than anyone else) gets drawn in so much more detail, especially from this point on. Take this, for example:
http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/2188/014pp2.th.jpg (http://img472.imageshack.us/my.php?image=014pp2.jpg)

even if it seems that harima and eri might end up together, with his tunnel vision for tenma, i can see the writer and director dragging this show for forever to make more money and better ratings.
As I mentioned earlier, there is a sort of deadline for all of this. Karasuma is supposed to leave in March. We're currently in December, just before Christmas.

If u look at haimas character for the past 40 episodes towards tenma and Eri, its gonna take some huge shit for him to suddenly be into Eri.
Hmm... sounds like a plan. :heh:

And i can see the creators of this show making that happen like 4 seasons later. ~sigh~ my biggest fear is that this show will end up becoming generic. We all watch this show, not only for the comedy and antics, but also for the characters and their journey. If they never change and keep doing the same thing over, and over, and over again, a show that i once labelled "one of the greatest animes ever" will just end up being mediocre.
Part of the problem is that much of the current romance genre in anime seems to be geared towards shorter series (ahh... instant gratification). Older series, like KOR and Maison Ikkoku tend to drag on at times, but they come together brilliantly by the end. Romance isn't really supposed to be goal orientated - it's not about "getting the girl" so much as it is about watching characters interact and build relationships together. It's more like gardening than a sporting event. :p

SR is on the right track, especially with Eri's character development. Harima, too, seems to pull his act together at the right times, so I'm fairly confident that he can live up to his full potential.

one can only hope that we can see some progress in character development that affects the whole show, and not insignificantly. As happy as i am about episode 16, i have some sort of dread because it might end up not meaning anything episodes down the line.
This story arc is still relevant, even today. Don't worry about that. ;)

Red_eyes

2006-07-27, 15:14

ichigoismyhomie

2006-07-27, 15:28

.......but since when did Mikoto know Eri liked Harima?

since she saw harima accidentally confessed to eri way back on season 1. then it all develop to the flag dance........and everything tumbling down from there on.

about the favor from mikoto? i kinda forgot but i think it was somewhere on season 1. go back and search for it, but im sure swampstorm will know the answer.

he/she is like SR sensei for us underling SR fans.......

hail swampy

Swampstorm

2006-07-27, 15:44

Mikoto was so sweet in this episode, I think she's possibly the most kind-hearted of all the characters of SR. However, one question - when Mikoto asked Harima to stay at her house and Harima said he can't owe Mikoto another favor, which favor in the past was her referring to? I don't remember Mikoto helping Harima out.
Well, she did help him pick up the tissues that he dropped, just a few moments earlier. :heh:

Also maybe I have forgotten, but since when did Mikoto know Eri liked Harima?
It's hard to say for sure. She's been a witness to a number of Flag incidents (including Harima's confession in Ep.10 S1), and she could have figured it out early on fairly easily, from the argument with Eri in Ep.14 S1. She definitely has it figured out by at least the start of Season 2, since she teases Eri about Harima in Ep.1 S2.

ChainLegacy

2006-07-27, 15:48

For the first time in a while, I really can't wait for the next episode to air... Ah, this was brilliant, and I agree that Eri is one of the show's best characters. The comedy in this episode was great and the character interactions were too, but next episode looks like it has the potential to blow this one out of the water. I hope, like kauldron26 pointed out, that this episode will lead somewhere and it won't turn out that the events simply do not impact Harima or Eri all that much.

SonicMonkey

2006-07-27, 19:44

I feel like some of you guys are being a little bit too premature about the whole "the mangaka is milking the series" conspiracy theory here.

Someone else above compared Eri's development as being similar to Madoka's in KOR, and I can kind of see that. Also that series took 48 episodes, 8 ovas and 2 movies to finally reach a very nice and satisfying conclusion and it was, at heart, a much simpler story since the two main characters atleast knew that they loved each other.

Personally I feel the pacing of the SR anime has been really good so far, I don't know if it will continue through another season like that or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. The thing that is nice, is that the cast of the anime/manga is so large and filled with such diverse characters that it's kind of ok if the story meanders a little bit.

Maybe people are just used to more modern series where everything gets solved/finished in 13 or 24 episodes or so, but to me some of the really good romantic comedy animes have actually been really long - even if SR is destined currently to pass up KOR in length here pretty soon, it'll take it quite some time to catch up to Maison Ikkoku's 96 episodes and I believe... one ova and movie?

So I guess my point is... hey these things take time :) So long as the mangaka finishes up the series in a satisfying way, I'm more than willing to enjoy the ride.

Deathkillz

2006-07-27, 19:44

but since when did Mikoto know Eri liked Harima?

my best guess was when in the first season eri had that dance with bald harima :heh: its pretty telling (why would eri dance with some so ugly? not anymore since his hair is back :p)

Anime Online

2006-07-27, 19:52

Forever

2006-07-27, 19:58

Deathkillz

2006-07-27, 20:05

I see School Rumble as more comedy than romance actually. After 42 episodes (Term 1 and 2 added together), I can no longer delude myself into believing that there is some kind of actual romance plot. Rather, the romance hints are used to launch the comedy by making the misunderstandings hilarious.

The romance in School Rumble feels very one-sided and static. Harima is very funny when he tries all kind of ways to confess to Tenma. Sadly, he is no closer than he was since Episode 1, Term 1. Hanai likes Yakumo, but he's probably doomed to failure. As for Yakumo, she seems to like Harima, but the show seems to want us to keep guessing.

It is understandable that any romance development would be extremely slow-paced, since it could disrupt the comical chemistry of the show. At least School Rumble delivers well when it comes to comedy.

i feel the same...the romance has been sideplotted now its more down to trying to get romance but failing in a funny fasion (with the help of harima)
btw has anyone noticed that karasuma (SP?) has disappeared somewhere? had a quick glimpse of him this ep (in the snowman costume -.-) but now hes completely gone off and we no longer see tenma doing anything to attract his attention...heck i dnt even see him anymore

Xellos-_^

2006-07-27, 20:47

mangatron

2006-07-28, 06:22

Hiya Lolitron, haven't seen you in while what happen?

I agree with Itoko sensei, we need see more of her. A hot spring ep would be the best.

Oh meine gott, you actually dared to call me lolitron :heh: :heh: :heh:

I've been going all over the hessen part of Germany, and been having a eating disorder. Losing weight faster than a person overdosing on weight-loss drugs :uhoh: and no, this is not a vacation :heh:

But that won't stop me from being my crazy self, anime drives my engine within me. :heh: :uhoh:

A hot spring ep? You need to rephrase that :heh: because if your thinking about the same kind of hot spring ep I'm thinking of, then it will be heavily fogged on TV :heh: so what we need is a DVD only OAV of a hot spring ep. Ah, the heavens are opening :heh: :heh:

thundrakkon

2006-07-28, 15:49

I can only imagine how Harima's 120 page manga story will change around after this little adventure with Eri. (Was originally very Tenma focused, wasn't it?)

A significant portion of this story arc is dedicated towards challenging many of our prior perceptions of Eri's character... This episode gives Harima and the viewers a chance to see Eri from a fresh perspective, free from all of the initial prejudices that initially clouded our vision... Eri is clueless here because she needs to be... expect to see quite a few dogmas shattered

My concern here is that it seems the author is intentionally and forcefully changing Eri's character to suite his needs and try to make Eri even more likeable by changing what type of character she is.

how did suou deal with nakamura at the end? did she get beat up by nakamura or the other way around?

I really doubt Miko can beat up Nakamura since she does not even stand a chance against Hanai. However, remember that Nakamura likes pretty women (Itoko sensei, Ep. 2), so he will probably not do anything to Miko.

The outrageous comedy that SR follows makes me think of Ranma 1/2 more than KOR. KOR was heavier on the drama, and yes, Ranma seemed to go forever, with no real ending in the Anime. However, if you are looking for over the top laughs similar to School Rumble, Ranma would probably be the way to go.

wingdarkness

2006-07-28, 16:17

Not as good as ep 15 but still good...I actually wanted the "Sleepover" story arc to continue as it was so funny and had a really strong dynamic going..For once in my life I actually can't get enuff of Tenma who has been brilliant the last 3 eps...I can't ever remember liking her this much...As for the Eri-Eroness this ep if you adjust your media player contrast down during the bath scenes you can see it all :naughty:... Anyways while I'm not a big Eri-fan I don't really have much against her...I'm just kinda tired of the Chidori-Naru girl characters who treat a guy like trash and hit him and curse him yet really like him (Then want me to feel sorry for them when we discover they have a heart or soft side)...But to my point I just don't see how they can keep playing this harem when Harima hasn't expressed anytype of feelings for Eri beyond a super-light interest (I mean Miko is really out of the loop to push harima into this)...The dude has Tenma tunnel vision so hard it just seems unbelievable that he would fall for Eri in a couple of eps regardless of anything they could possible do...The money to me is in the Yakumo harem where she falls more and more each ep and Harima is subconciously feeling her because she's the only person inwhich he displays his truest personality...Touching her, talking to her in a natural way where he isn't overly embarrassed or anything..He doesn't even realize how comfortable he has become around her...It think the money is in the Tenma-Yakumo harem personally, but this ep was good...Nice to see a different side of Harima without the shades and the bathroom humor with him and Miko was hilarious...

Looking forward to more...it should be gut-busting how he finishes his 120 pages of manga by deadline xD...

Swampstorm

2006-07-28, 17:35

Anyways while I'm not a big Eri-fan I don't really have much against her...I'm just kinda tired of the Chidori-Naru girl characters who treat a guy like trash and hit him and curse him yet really like him (Then want me to feel sorry for them when we discover they have a heart or soft side)...But to my point I just don't see how they can keep playing this harem when Harima hasn't expressed anytype of feelings for Eri beyond a super-light interest (I mean Miko is really out of the loop to push harima into this)...The dude has Tenma tunnel vision so hard it just seems unbelievable that he would fall for Eri in a couple of eps regardless of anything they could possible do...
Eri doesn't fit the typical tsundere stereotype. Tsunderes usually have weaknesses that the harem male learns to understand and accept - there isn't any character growth on the side of the tsundere. In Eri's case, her character weaknesses are a source of her endless growth as a character. Every major story arc, from Ep.14 onwards, addresses some character weakness within Eri that she has to learn to overcome. As a matter of fact, in Ep.6 S2, Eri admits that her behavior is immature at the time - which is a catalyst for real maturity and growth.

Another point to note is that Eri always reciprocates her perception of Harima's actions. She is cold and aloof when he is rude, but she goes to great lengths to satisfy his needs when he shows even the slightest sign of kindness. As a matter of fact, in the Harima x Eri relationship, I'd argue that Harima is the real tsundere - and Eri grows in response to dealing with his 'tsun' and 'dere' modes of behaviour. What's more, no matter how much you see Harima protest out loud that he hates Eri, he can't help but be there for her in her time of need - whether it be in winning relay races, or keeping her and her laundry out of the rain. There's an underlying tendancy in Harima's behaviour throughout the series, and if you're sharp, you might already know what it is. ;)

The money to me is in the Yakumo harem where she falls more and more each ep and Harima is subconciously feeling her because she's the only person inwhich he displays his truest personality...Touching her, talking to her in a natural way where he isn't overly embarrassed or anything..He doesn't even realize how comfortable he has become around her...It think the money is in the Tenma-Yakumo harem personally, but this ep was good...Nice to see a different side of Harima without the shades and the bathroom humor with him and Miko was hilarious...
Who ever said that this was a harem anime? Ugh, not again. :p
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26311&page=4

Onigiri, Marker, and Pencil all exist in relationship to specific conflicts that Eri has to face as a character - in this way, Yakumo, Tae, and Mikoto are all foils, who serve to both contrast and illuminate Eri's character. Through each 'rivalry', which exists entirely within Eri's mind, Eri faces conflicts within herself and learns to overcome them.

On another note, in Ep.4 S2, Sagano and Yuuki point out that Eri and Harima look most natural and at ease when they are together. Harima's real personality is not in the calm, polite, and quiet attitude that he demonstrates around strangers, but rather in the emotive behaviour that he shows around his family (Itoko and Shuuji), Tenma, and Eri. Note that around both of his known relatives, that is, the people whom he is closest to (Itoko and Shuuji) he constantly argues with them and curses them under his breath, but whenever they need his help, he's always there for them. Harima's interactions with Eri bring out his natural behaviour. (They also complement each other perfectly, in his ability to inspire her and her ability to keep him grounded, but that's a topic for another episode. ;) )

My concern here is that it seems the author is intentionally and forcefully changing Eri's character to suite his needs and try to make Eri even more likeable by changing what type of character she is.
Eri fandom is something that has really grown over the course of SR. Many popular characters are designed to be likable - they are presented in a way that makes them cool or mysterious, or they use gimmicks, like showing up every week in a different moe fetish outfit. Such characters manage to grab our focus for a short period of time (the duration of the series or the length of our attention span, whichever is shorter), and then we move on to find a substitute. Unfortunately, this comes at the expense of character depth. Eri, fortunately, is a very different story.

The stereotypes that we tend to attach to Eri's character on first being introduced to her are hardly flattering. Had she simply lived up to the stereotypes linked with typical arrogant, rich, foreign blondes, she would probably have been doomed to mediocrity.

Some of us noticed fairly early on that Eri did not match up to any of her stereotypes, and others picked up as the series progressed. In this manner, Eri fandom has grown, over time. If you look back, the qualities that she shows here were always present, even from as early as S1 Ep.5 - but it's up to the viewer to be willing to percieve them. We tend to cling to our first impressions quite strongly, so it can be hard for us to accept anything that contradicts them - Harima is struggling with the very same problem, as a matter of fact. These episodes are a delight for Eri fans for a simple reason - it's absolute confirmation of a truth that we've always seen in Eri, throughout the series. Tell me: when was she ever any different?

KJ is quite consistant in his writing - there are countless small examples of the attention to detail that he puts into his work, and Eri is no exception. You need only be concerned by the recent developments if you want a reason to condemn her character - because the more we understand Eri, as the series progresses, the easier it becomes love her for who she is.

Shredder

2006-07-28, 18:04

Looking forward to more...it should be gut-busting how he finishes his 120 pages of manga by deadline xD...He's always used his interactions or fantasies with Tenma as his muse for his manga stories. I wonder what this one will be about?? Horror manga hehe, or psycho

I too liked Tenma and the dynamics in the last few eps, they were good. But I guess that could only go for so long, it's good they ended it I think. I'm curious about next ep for sure.

wingdarkness

2006-07-28, 19:21

Another point to note is that Eri always reciprocates her perception of Harima's actions. She is cold and aloof when he is rude, but she goes to great lengths to satisfy his needs when he shows even the slightest sign of kindness. As a matter of fact, in the Harima x Eri relationship, I'd argue that Harima is the real tsundere - and Eri grows in response to dealing with his 'tsun' and 'dere' modes of behaviour. What's more, no matter how much you see Harima protest out loud that he hates Eri, he can't help but be there for her in her time of need - whether it be in winning relay races, or keeping her and her laundry out of the rain. There's an underlying tendancy in Harima's behaviour throughout the series, and if you're sharp, you might already know what it is. ;)

But Harima is overall a kind character...His internal nature and overall pureness is noted by his relationship with animals...His persona as a deliquent has always been a mask to hide his true tenderness...Now I have no problem with Eri being showcased and her changing as a character but in-terms of Harima always being there for her that is a byproduct of harem-anime...He knows she's not evil or anything..He also knows her prissy attitude isn't quite her full character but at the same time he hasn't shown anything to me that would suggest that his reception to her in his life is anything that resembles "pure love"....Other than Yakumo I don't ever really see Harima act in his truest personality around girls of interest (Which is comfortability)...Obviously there is gonna be a sexual-angst there because both characters are asthetically sexy....Obviously I'm basing all these conclusions on the anime...

Who ever said that this was a harem anime? Ugh, not again. :p
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26311&page=4

Who said it was purely a harem?? Not me...Don't jump to conclusions just because you heard me use that word, although one would have to be suffering some kind of severe head trauma not to see the harem element that comes into play in various episodes of this show (with side-characters aswell)...One of the reasons I believe this show is so popular is because it has an eclectic-mix of comedy, action, interpersonal-relationships, and pop-culture spoofing (all this presented with a vast pallette of characters)... Which means it has something for everyone... I don't mean to push this subject even further, but the main characters name is "Harima"...it seems to me it's a play on the word "Harem" :uhoh: ...You can put that in your pipe and smoke it or not though....

Eri doesn't fit the typical tsundere stereotype. Tsunderes usually have weaknesses that the harem male learns to understand and accept - there isn't any character growth on the side of the tsundere. In Eri's case, her character weaknesses are a source of her endless growth as a character. Every major story arc, from Ep.14 onwards, addresses some character weakness within Eri that she has to learn to overcome. As a matter of fact, in Ep.6 S2, Eri admits that her behavior is immature at the time - which is a catalyst for real maturity and growth.

Onigiri, Marker, and Pencil all exist in relationship to specific conflicts that Eri has to face as a character - in this way, Yakumo, Tae, and Mikoto are all foils, who serve to both contrast and illuminate Eri's character. Through each 'rivalry', which exists entirely within Eri's mind, Eri faces conflicts within herself and learns to overcome them.

Ok I'm not going to attempt to shatter your world as it appears quite obvious you are overly-indulged with her character...But I am extremely analytical (even in comedy series) and I fail to see it quite your way...Yes I understand the importance of her character but she does not have an archeatype in the anime world that's super-creative or non-descript (This is an archetype she shares with naru in love Hina and Chidori in FMP! not to mention a hundred more characters I don't need to mention)...Just like Sasuke in Naruto and Vegeta in DBZ share the same archetype they are still vastly different characters, so I do understand that Eri is not "just like" them, but she is in that grouping...Now I'm sure if I worked hard enuff I can pull all sorts of character stuff out of the hat that can rival your veiw of Eri, but alas that's not the point I'm going for here...I accept your view of her but trust me I don't need to go to in-depth character school to break her down...The episodes we are seeing right now even seem to be a dedicated effort to kind of change her character in a sense, but obviously you see this as implied growth rather than a byproduct of a "haremy" dynamic and it's your choice to believe this...

On another note, in Ep.4 S2, Sagano and Yuuki point out that Eri and Harima look most natural and at ease when they are together. Harima's real personality is not in the calm, polite, and quiet attitude that he demonstrates around strangers, but rather in the emotive behaviour that he shows around his family (Itoko and Shuuji), Tenma, and Eri. Note that around both of his known relatives, that is, the people whom he is closest to (Itoko and Shuuji) he constantly argues with them and curses them under his breath, but whenever they need his help, he's always there for them. Harima's interactions with Eri bring out his natural behaviour. (They also complement each other perfectly, in his ability to inspire her and her ability to keep him grounded, but that's a topic for another episode. ;) )

Well that's a good point and opposites do attract, but if his natural behavior is getting freaked out of his mind that he even has to be around her I'm not sure of the intense attraction you see...I mean the guy was in his own personal "heaven of heavens" just hours earlier as he thought his dream-girl was making an effort to show she liked him...You can ignore this HUGE MEATBALL SANDWICH called Tenma if you want, but his obsession with her is so ridiculously over-the-top for him to automatically sweep that under the rug and go for Eri based on what you've seen would be nonsensical at best (what a minute School Rumble is nonsensical at BEST :p) As for the rest, i gotta tell you the way i act around my mom and sister behind close doors isn't neccessarily the way I act around a girl I really like or one that really gets on my nerves...But I can see the subtle attraction there...I mean the director//manga-creator wouldn't put them in situations together if he didn't want that attraction...

Eri fandom is something that has really grown over the course of SR. Many popular characters are designed to be likable - they are presented in a way that makes them cool or mysterious, or they use gimmicks, like showing up every week in a different moe fetish outfit. Such characters manage to grab our focus for a short period of time (the duration of the series or the length of our attention span, whichever is shorter), and then we move on to find a substitute. Unfortunately, this comes at the expense of character depth. Eri, fortunately, is a very different story.

The stereotypes that we tend to attach to Eri's character on first being introduced to her are hardly flattering. Had she simply lived up to the stereotypes linked with typical arrogant, rich, foreign blondes, she would probably have been doomed to mediocrity.

I can agree with that but at the same time not see this as great character discovery...Eri is cool to me...I just don't see her as in-depth as you do....The manga creator or director could flip the script and have Eri and Harima fall in love next episode and you'll say that you saw this coming based on your sage view of her character or it can remain the same and you'll stil see what you see...I've just watch so much damn anime that I know an archeatype when I see one...And as Eri stands she's not as complex or in-depth a character like Fllay Allstar from Gundam SEED or Eureka in E7 or to meet the comedy-show//harem show comparison she doesn't even come close to a character like Miyazawa in "His & Her Circumstances"...So like I said what you see is in the eye of the beholder...

Some of us noticed fairly early on that Eri did not match up to any of her stereotypes, and others picked up as the series progressed. In this manner, Eri fandom has grown, over time. If you look back, the qualities that she shows here were always present, even from as early as S1 Ep.5 - but it's up to the viewer to be willing to percieve them. We tend to cling to our first impressions quite strongly, so it can be hard for us to accept anything that contradicts them - Harima is struggling with the very same problem, as a matter of fact. These episodes are a delight for Eri fans for a simple reason - it's absolute confirmation of a truth that we've always seen in Eri, throughout the series. Tell me: when was she ever any different?

KJ is quite consistant in his writing - there are countless small examples of the attention to detail that he puts into his work, and Eri is no exception. You need only be concerned by the recent developments if you want a reason to condemn her character - because the more we understand Eri, as the series progresses, the easier it becomes love her for who she is.
Personally I think your looking so deep into it that you are gonna find whatever you need...She is a nice character I agree, but far from my favorite on this show...I think she's a good haremy character who may or may not have a chance to win to be with Harima, but her complexities as a character do not astound me, sorry...

Potatochobit

2006-07-28, 20:15

of course harima cares about eri. but its not romantic from his point of view. im sure eri wants it to be romantic but she cant accept the fact the she likes him yet so there is a mutual stale mate.

biomy

2006-07-28, 20:20

i like how this is following the manga pretty closely, and for those whom it may concern, the anime's right now at or around chapter 151

and if the manga is any indication, the next couple of episodes are going to be nice flag episodes <3

Deathkillz

2006-07-28, 22:00

whow wats up with the long ass posts? >.< harima is kind to everybody IMO (thats after he came in contact with tenma) hes just a nice guy in general...and yea eri is too stubbon to swollow her pride and say she likes harima grr!!

Shredder

2006-07-28, 23:03

whow wats up with the long ass posts?Agreed, there's something to be said for brevity. Harima's solid, nice when he needs to be nice and badass when he needs to be badass. It's rare to see chars like that in my experience, they are almost always one or the other. Guys anyway

wingdarkness

2006-07-28, 23:14

Jesus people if you can't read that then I feel for you...It's not even that long first off...And all I did is respond to an equally long post....It's not like anything is going on in here, you people should be glad to read this $hit^^...It's about School Rumble ain't it?

Don't come to the Gundam forum if you think that's long, your eyes will fall out of their sockets :eyespin:...I'm glad either way I got 6 rep points for that post inching me a TD away from 100 :p...and to be honest I think it was a post worth reading, but this is the SR forum so maybe I should keep it light...

Xinil

2006-07-28, 23:58

ichigoismyhomie

2006-07-29, 01:05

saner

2006-07-29, 03:03

I couldn't agree with you more. This is EXACTLY how I feel about this series. I too, will jump ship if after this development, everything goes back to normal. I just can't take it anymore. I'd rather not watch this show than be forced to pull my hair out after every freakin' lameass misunderstanding. It's just unbearable.

Thank god they've been focusing on the "main" characters the past episodes too. *cheers*

Yeah, I agree too. The last two episodes (ep15 and ep16) pushed the plot forward because Yakumo and Eri seem to choose their own way.

Yakumo started learning how to draw manga so that she will be cut off from Harima, consequently maybe she will understand her feelings to Harima better. The same goes for Eri who understand that she loves Harima.

ichigoismyhomie

2006-07-29, 03:37

i went back to watch this episode for the 8th time and found something fishy......

at the beginning, when itoko standing on the snow and yoko show up, there's a questionable dialog between the two.:eyebrow: and i quote:

yoko: but that won't do for itoko-san. you are my precious
itoko: i got it. i'll play with you tonight. let me have some fun alone right now

end quote.(translation from a fansub....not my own)

I don't know about about you all, but that conversation make me think that itoko are lesbian....and yoko is her lover. I don't know if that's the real translation (since i don't know japanese directly) or the fansubber just having a lil quality time on this episode.

But if they really are lesbian, it would be a really good twist for SR that is already so twisted inside out. I think they should make OVA about them...:rolleyes:

thundrakkon

2006-07-29, 03:38

That was a good analysis you have there, wingdarkness. It was a long read, but yeah, it was similar in length to the post you were replying to. In some ways, certain fans are biased towards their respective chosen characters, so it's normal for them to have a high positive view of that character. Everyone has a right to their own views, and we are just discussing different views that are just as valid.

Eri is a likeable character, but you are correct, IMO, that she does not display any traits that we have not already seen in other anime characters. We can add another character which I think is similar, which is Lafiel from Crest/Banner of the Stars, who has so much depth herself. Better yet, Akane from Ranma 1/2, who is strong on the outside, but really caring when it counts, and almost always misunderstands the main character.

@Swampstorm. Eri seems weak and vurnerable in this episode. I usually consider her much stronger and would have thought she would normally take charge of the situation and take care of things to her satisfaction. That is why I think she seems out of character and the author made her that way on purpose.

Shredder

2006-07-29, 08:19

i went back to watch this episode for the 8th time:eyespin: :eyespin: :eyespin:

yoko: but that won't do for itoko-san. you are my precious
itoko: i got it. i'll play with you tonight. let me have some fun alone right nowYeah, disturbing exchange here :uhoh: . Maybe they're going to play ping pong, or Go! :cool:

However Itoko does have that gruff voice so there's no telling. I didn't know her buddy was Suzumiya Haruhi until someone recently pointed it out.

+nothing inherently wrong with long posts, it's just easier reading and keeping up with short ones

Swampstorm

2006-07-29, 10:41

But Harima is overall a kind character...His internal nature and overall pureness is noted by his relationship with animals...His persona as a deliquent has always been a mask to hide his true tenderness...
People who befriend animals are not necessarily pure and tender. I think that Harima is a fantastic character, but he is still one who primarily relies on force and power to get his way. His character growth lies in learning to build relationships with others.

Now I have no problem with Eri being showcased and her changing as a character but in-terms of Harima always being there for her that is a byproduct of harem-anime...He knows she's not evil or anything..He also knows her prissy attitude isn't quite her full character but at the same time he hasn't shown anything to me that would suggest that his reception to her in his life is anything that resembles "pure love"....
Actually, his current struggle is in admitting to himself that she does have a good side. Also, you just called SR a harem anime, which directly contradicts one of your later points. ;)

Other than Yakumo I don't ever really see Harima act in his truest personality around girls of interest (Which is comfortability)...Obviously there is gonna be a sexual-angst there because both characters are asthetically sexy....Obviously I'm basing all these conclusions on the anime...
Your reasoning is circular.

Who said it was purely a harem?? Not me...
You just called it a harem anime yourself, a few lines earlier. :p

Don't jump to conclusions just because you heard me use that word, although one would have to be suffering some kind of severe head trauma not to see the harem element that comes into play in various episodes of this show (with side-characters aswell)...
I can see why people try to classify elements of the show in terms of the familiar harem structure, but you distort the story in the process. Harima has a harem of one, right now.

One of the reasons I believe this show is so popular is because it has an eclectic-mix of comedy, action, interpersonal-relationships, and pop-culture spoofing (all this presented with a vast pallette of characters)... Which means it has something for everyone...
Well said, but absolutely irrelevant to the discussion on harem elements in the show. :p

I don't mean to push this subject even further, but the main characters name is "Harima"...it seems to me it's a play on the word "Harem" ...You can put that in your pipe and smoke it or not though....
After all, "Harem" is a Japanese word in the same way that Harima is a Japanese name. ;)

You can ignore this HUGE MEATBALL SANDWICH called Tenma if you want, but his obsession with her is so ridiculously over-the-top for him to automatically sweep that under the rug and go for Eri based on what you've seen would be nonsensical at best (what a minute School Rumble is nonsensical at BEST )
Harima's obsession with Tenma is relevant, but Tenma's obsession with Karasuma is equally relevant, if not more so.

I can agree with that but at the same time not see this as great character discovery...Eri is cool to me...I just don't see her as in-depth as you do....The manga creator or director could flip the script and have Eri and Harima fall in love next episode and you'll say that you saw this coming based on your sage view of her character or it can remain the same and you'll stil see what you see...
Actually, I read these events about eight to nine months ago. So yes, I am writing this all in retrospect. It doesn't matter if we turn out to be right or wrong, down the line - what matters is our willingness to constantly challenge our old beliefs and assumptions as they become outdated. I used to view the series as a Flag-Onigiri-Oudou harem, at one point. When I saw consistant evidence that contradicted that idea, I abandoned it and looked for a better one.

I've just watch so much damn anime that I know an archeatype when I see one...And as Eri stands she's not as complex or in-depth a character like Fllay Allstar from Gundam SEED or Eureka in E7 or to meet the comedy-show//harem show comparison she doesn't even come close to a character like Miyazawa in "His & Her Circumstances"...So like I said what you see is in the eye of the beholder...
Every character can be made to fit into some form of archtypical description. Archetypes are unrelated to the originality of a character.
Complexity is different from character depth. Complexity pertains to the little details that we get into why a character works. Depth refers to the vividness of the character being portrayed. Godai from Maison Ikkoku is an excellent example of a character with "depth". He fits perfectly into the archetype of "loser hero" (that has been done to death), but as the series progresses, you see him continually grow and mature as a character. At the climax of the series, he makes an powerful speech that really shows the journey he has made to become a mature character (and defines the series,too). Older romance animes were more about that "journey" to maturity. Eri, likewise, undergoes a similar journey. You can load up a character with little details to make them more complex, but character depth requires true artistry.

Personally I think your looking so deep into it that you are gonna find whatever you need...
Is it preferable to look at the series from a shallow perspective?

@Swampstorm. Eri seems weak and vurnerable in this episode. I usually consider her much stronger and would have thought she would normally take charge of the situation and take care of things to her satisfaction. That is why I think she seems out of character and the author made her that way on purpose.
Eri is primarily concerned with attitudes and perspectives external to herself. Harima is primarily concerned with his own internal attitudes and perspectives. That's the interaction that's being observed here. You've seen her give up on Harima on about three different occasions, to date - because she thought that he was interested in Mikoto, Tae, and Yakumo, respectively. She actively avoids those conflicts, even at the expense of her own feelings.

The acid test here is to see if Eri is acting "out of character". If you can point out other ways in which Eri is being inconsistant, then we can take a look at them.

SonicMonkey

2006-07-29, 13:04

I personally dont feel like Eri is acting out of character at all. I think the problem is that 1) Alot of anime watchers are not very observant and 2) We don't often get to see interactions from Eri's POV.

If anything Eri comes across to me as actually fairly insecure. Her "I'm a princess" act is exactly that - an act that she uses to get people to admire her. Maybe some of you can remember back to season one where they showed the episode of her and Mikoto first becomming friends - there is one part where Eri gets kind of flustered and upset and Mikoto says to her, "So you can make a face like that". This is probably the reason why Eri and Mikoto are best friends, Mikoto can see past the facade that Eri puts up and Eri doesn't have to put up an act infront of Mikoto because she sees and accepts who she really is. It's an interesting friendship dynamic and not one that is really uncommon in real life, which is probably why it resonates as one of the more realistic relationships in SR.

Also as far as her "passiveness" in this episode... I think people are confusing her outward ojou-sama persona with her actual self. We have never seen an episode where Eri was in direct conflict with her parents, in fact the only thing we really know about Eri's relationship with them is that she is a total daddys girl :P It's not hard to imagine that she is actually a pretty devoted daughter and hence would be willing to carry out omai meeting for the sake of her parents.

One other thing that Swampstorm pointed out is also true - We have seen Eri really back down whenever she thinks that someone else is going out or is interested in Harima. The closest she's ever come to a direct confronation was with Yakumo during the school play arc and at the end she still wilted, in fact Yakumo had to say something to her (It was whispered so we don't know what evidently) to evidently keep Eri from totally giving up.

I dunno, if anything Eri comes across to me as someone who is actually kind of passive in terms of her own emotions and self interest. This is why I think she actually has low self esteem. Just compare her to Tenma who is mildly cute, rather stupid, self delusional and over confidant in her abilities. Tenma literally oozes a very inflated sense of self worth :) Even when Tenma (rarely) admits her failings it doesn't really stop her from doing whatever it is she wants. Eri is almost the exact opposite of her.

This is why Eri is a tsundere type of character. The "tsun tsun" is her princess persona that she exhibts in public and the "dere dere" is her rather meek and kind inner persona that she hides from most people. It's also one of the reasons why I think a lot of people are sympathetic towards her, that is to say - her character exhibits a trait that is very common to alot of people: She is afraid of letting everyone see who she really is.

I think it's good that she has a friend like Mikoto who is cool with her real personality, and in fact even actively supports her when it comes to trying to be honest about herself. The fact that Mikoto is all like, "So when are you going to confess to Harima" right infront of Harima - it's not just Mikoto being mischievious, she was trying to push her friend in the direction she needs to go in to have a happy life. By that I don't mean that she has to hook up with Harima, but she needs to start actually expressing her feelings instead of hiding them behind her tsun tsun personality all the time.

Anyway, Mikoto understands Eri so why don't the rest of you guys?? To me the great thing about her character is how it's not totally contrived. Her "problem" if you will, is one that almost everyone should be familiar with on one level or another. It's not easy for people in general to be on the outside how they are internally. I think that's why the character resonates a lot with the fans. More so than say Yakumo with her psychic mind powers or Tenma having to compete with curry for Kurasama's affections. Both of those problems seem really superficial or just plain silly and hard to relate to. When you look at Eri's character however people can be like "Yeah, I understand that. I know what that's like".

Wow... this was a really long post. But seriously - I dont think Eri is acting out of character at all, in fact I think she's being very much in character, but the debate on these boards is because maybe she as a character hasn't resonated with everyone so they are not seeing things from her perspective enough to understand how it's very likely should would act the way she currently is...

biomy

2006-07-29, 13:41

wah wah people complaining about the author's own direction on his own project wah wah call the wambulance

sage for the following offenses

pretending to know psychology and psychoanalysis
lack of ceilingcat
misspellings and grammatical errors
lack of lurking more on school rumble manga itself
serious business
zer0kage thread
i forgot one more: tl;dr

also, welcome to the internet

next post i have to make, you will see exactly why anonymous does not forgive, all of you

Potatochobit

2006-07-29, 16:13

the itoko bit was a teaser, and yeah it got the job done.

wingdarkness

2006-07-29, 18:17

@ Swampstorm- First off if ya wanna debate then let's debate...No need for false pleasantries or happy faces with each sentence...Just say what you need to say...I welcome body-blows in addition to fun back and forth...

Now lets begin...

People who befriend animals are not necessarily pure and tender. I think that Harima is a fantastic character, but he is still one who primarily relies on force and power to get his way. His character growth lies in learning to build relationships with others.

Yeah people are not necessarily pure and tender for having a connection with animals, but in the context of SR Harima's connection to animals is specifically shown to express that side of his personality (In contrast to the delinquent stereotype his character embodies from the start)...Yakumo's ability to relate with animals and her percieved pureness of character is built in relationship to Harima to show that both have a quality that attracts kindness from animals...Overall in many folklores and legends the ability to garner acceptance or relationships with animals (or have the ability to easily tame them) speaks to the pureness and lack of ill-intentions toward them...So that was the main point I was trying to express...

Actually, his current struggle is in admitting to himself that she does have a good side. Also, you just called SR a harem anime, which directly contradicts one of your later points. ;)

Iyiyiiiii...

a component of harem-anime is used in various aspects of the show...So when I say the Eri-Harima-Yakumo-Tenma-Kurasama, etc. pairings and couplings use a by-product of harem anime for funny or serious relationship situations I mean exactly that, not that the show is specifically 100% HAREM...C'mon you gotta learn to navigate the argument...Just because I say the sky is blue doesn't mean sometimes it's not orange or red...Comparatively SR having many harem-ish situationals doesn't mean that's all the show consists of...So neatly fold that contradiction and place it in your back-pocket...

Other than Yakumo I don't ever really see Harima act in his truest personality around girls of interest (Which is comfortability)...Obviously there is gonna be a sexual-angst there because both characters are asthetically sexy....Obviously I'm basing all these conclusions on the anime...Your reasoning is circular.
Are you sure? :eyebrow: I'm talking about Eri after Yakumo...You took that out of context it seems...

You just called it a harem anime yourself, a few lines earlier. :p
As if I even have to say it again, but if you think this is winning the debate for you sobeit...

I can see why people try to classify elements of the show in terms of the familiar harem structure, but you distort the story in the process. Harima has a harem of one, right now.
Anyone watching this show understands pretty much what I am talking about..If you think me discussing the harem aspects distorts the show..Then your view of the show is distorted...I believe every person here is capable of understanding the harem aspect of the show without having to totally classify it under that heading...You give your fellow forum members far too little credit...

Well said, but absolutely irrelevant to the discussion on harem elements in the show. :p
Well it's kind of hard to rationalize with you when you simply say the reverse of what i just said and put a smiley after it :o ...The relevantcy in discussing it lies in the ecletic nature of the show...Which basically means SR has alot of elements that relate with many genres of anime...

After all, "Harem" is a Japanese word in the same way that Harima is a Japanese name. ;)
:twitch: So I guess you agree with me :uhoh:..Nice deflection...

Harima's obsession with Tenma is relevant, but Tenma's obsession with Karasuma is equally relevant, if not more so.
Now you want to talk about irrelevant statements there you go..What does that have to do with you pretty much ignoring (or slighting) Harima's ridiculous obsession with Tenma?? (as expressed as currently as last episode)...My only point is that for this whole Eri-thing to work out it would seem quite ingenuous for Harima's feelings toward Tenma to totally dissapear or be absurdly pushed aside for that to happen...

Actually, I read these events about eight to nine months ago. So yes, I am writing this all in retrospect. It doesn't matter if we turn out to be right or wrong, down the line - what matters is our willingness to constantly challenge our old beliefs and assumptions as they become outdated. I used to view the series as a Flag-Onigiri-Oudou harem, at one point. When I saw consistant evidence that contradicted that idea, I abandoned it and looked for a better one.

Good for you...It's quite natural to read many things into a character you enjoy...I'll agree that Eri does have alot of character interactions that are more realistic or that gives cashe to her character others don't necessarily have, but whether or not that is a deep expression is up to the person who recieves it...You love Eri for a reason...I simply don't see the same depth to your reasonings...and it seems to me her character can be changed and shaped basically at will to serve the show's harem or relationship aspects...kapeeesh...

Every character can be made to fit into some form of archtypical description. Archetypes are unrelated to the originality of a character.
Complexity is different from character depth. Complexity pertains to the little details that we get into why a character works. Depth refers to the vividness of the character being portrayed. Godai from Maison Ikkoku is an excellent example of a character with "depth". He fits perfectly into the archetype of "loser hero" (that has been done to death), but as the series progresses, you see him continually grow and mature as a character. At the climax of the series, he makes an powerful speech that really shows the journey he has made to become a mature character (and defines the series,too). Older romance animes were more about that "journey" to maturity. Eri, likewise, undergoes a similar journey. You can load up a character with little details to make them more complex, but character depth requires true artistry.
Wow you are really sippin the Kool-aid...I can't hate, we all love certain characters for certain reasons...But Eri's character IMO doesn't even get the proper amount of screentime to compare favorably with characters I consider to really have intense depth of character(In all honesty when compared to the volume of anime I've digested she is a serious light-weight)...I really think you are reading too much into it, but to each their own...Like I said a character like Eri couldn't hold a show together on her back like Miyzawa in "His & Hers"...She simply doesn't have enuff plot driving skills nor does the show conform to her aspect soley (I mean this is a comedy after all even with it's ecletic nature...Recently I'm starting to veiw Tenma as the centerpiece performer of this show)...I love SR but I think you are setting yourself up for disaster diving into this intense romanticism of unearthly complexities you think you see in an arguably non-primary character on an overtly comedic anime...

Just saying :uhoh: ...

Is it preferable to look at the series from a shallow perspective?
You can look at this anime seriously as hell and still not see all you see...I enjoy SR because it is a very creative and witty show that operates under the assumption that it's an outrageous spoof-comedy, then to boot it's a HS relationship comedy aswell...most of the enriching seriousness the show displays is routinely followed by gut-busting comedy...So I don't think it's a question of viewing it from a shallow perspective as much as viewing it for what it is...If one were to read your examination of Eri's character and nothing else you'd think this was some "coming of age" self-realization HS drama and not a character-based ecletic comedy...

Eri is primarily concerned with attitudes and perspectives external to herself. Harima is primarily concerned with his own internal attitudes and perspectives. That's the interaction that's being observed here. You've seen her give up on Harima on about three different occasions, to date - because she thought that he was interested in Mikoto, Tae, and Yakumo, respectively. She actively avoids those conflicts, even at the expense of her own feelings.

The acid test here is to see if Eri is acting "out of character". If you can point out other ways in which Eri is being inconsistant, then we can take a look at them.

I won't deny some of the merits you have in exploring her character, but it's certainley not extensivley clear to me based on SR...I still see Eri as a character within a set archeatype that is far from so overly-complex than I can't figure her out...The Chidori at the beginning of FMP! ain't the same one at the end of TSR...The Naru at the beginning of Love hina certainley isn't the same as in the final Ova and in the tradition of those type of characters Eri is becoming softer and more vulnerable...Also more receptive to things she didn't want to be receptive to when we were shown the more prissy, yet aggressive side of her personality...At this point in the show's history I am neither perplexed nor amazed by her current development...

^it is what it is...

Asianknight82

2006-07-30, 00:12

No matter what any of you say, you wont convince the other any different. What it seems to me, is that you guys are extremely biased towards your favorite character. I personally dont care much for Yakumo, she's abit too boring for my taste, I at first didnt like Eri, cause I thought she was one of those mean rich b*tches, but as time went on, I grew to love her as a character and now Im routing for her all the way. Whats the point in arguing when there is nothing to prove other than your own bias opinions? And thats exactly what it is, opinion.

The arguement can go on for several thousand posts with the same points from both sides constantily repeated. Lets just end it with a I like Yakumo / Eri, call it done.

Oh, School Rumble is not a Harem anime. For a Harem anime to work, there has to be several girls interested in the main protagonist, while the main protagonist is only interested in one of the several girls that is interested in him. In SRs case, Harima is interested in a girl who has no interest in him whatsoever and is interested in a different guy, and is infact going well relationship wise with the other guy. So far there is only one solid confirmation as to who has a romantic interest in Harima and that is Eri, Yakumo still sits on the maybe section. As I see her interact with Harima, its more along the line of her not being able to refuse helping someone out but has potential to grow into something more, its her nice girl mentality, At this point I dont think Yakumo is interested in romance. Beyond those 2, the other girls have 0 interest in Harima. The Nurse dont count, as she already gave up on Harima on season one after seeing Harima with Eri.

A good example of a harem anime is Love Hina, where Naru, Mikoto, Shinobu, and that one chick i forgot her name >_< the one with the big tits, and Kentaro's adopted sister, are all in love with the main char. another example is Ranma, where theres Ukyo, Shampoo, Akane, and Kodachi are after Ranma. I can go into other series as well, but they will all point out to at least 4 or more females all interested in the main character. Well, I think I made my point about Harem animes.

wingdarkness

2006-07-30, 00:44

...
^Oh be quiet...

Address the arguments at hand or go home...

I just love these people that pop out of the weasel hole, push the pedal to the metal and jump all in the Kool-aid when they don't even know what flavor it is...I have made some comprehensive points and arguments...I'm no fan boy of anybody in particular...I put my time in to make what i deem is a credible discussion and analysis...So either specifically address my points or go fly a kite...My goodnes...If you don't see a component of harem anime in the eclectic mix that is SR I'd make a doctors appointment...

I swear when people just jump out of the woodworx trying to discredit me it really tics me off...Like I'm learning something from you...Pick a quote, any quote and address me properly...I'm beyond ready to combat anything you may bring...

Asianknight82

2006-07-30, 01:20

^Oh be quiet...

Address the arguments at hand or go home...

I just love these people that pop out of the weasel hole, push the pedal to the metal and jump all in the Kool-aid when they don't even know what flavor it is...I have made some comprehensive points and arguments...I'm no fan boy of anybody in particular...I put my time in to make what i deem is a credible discussion and analysis...So either specifically address my points or go fly a kite...My goodnes...If you don't see a component of harem anime in the eclectic mix that is SR I'd make a doctors appointment...

I swear when people just jump out of the woodworx trying to discredit me it really tics me off...Like I'm learning something from you...Pick a quote, any quote and address me properly...I'm beyond ready to combat anything you may bring...

Wow, simply wow, you have an ego problem or something? Are you starved for a pissing contest? Want to show off who has the biggest e-penis. Just admit to your being biased, theres no pride over the internet. You obviously prefer Yakumo, therefore trying your very best to argue against Eri, as would an Eri fan would refute against those who are trying to push Yakumo.

biomy

2006-07-30, 01:44

i'm gonna tell you out of the woodwork that the internet is serious business, mister, and anonymous does not forgive

and in fact bbl i am going to come up with a longwinded post that is longer than anything you have ever seen due to your insane pomposity

maybe after i have finished my jack daniels

SonicMonkey

2006-07-30, 03:10

I swear when people just jump out of the woodworx trying to discredit me it really tics me off...Like I'm learning something from you...Pick a quote, any quote and address me properly...I'm beyond ready to combat anything you may bring...

Ok wow. Just wow.

ichigoismyhomie

2006-07-30, 03:24

errrrrrrrrr..............i think the topic has went wayyyyyy off the subject. aren't we suppose to discuss ep 16, not arguing whos right and whos wrong?

cmon now......lets go back to the topic.......

i say..............back dimples is the hottest thing i've seen from eri.....

thundrakkon

2006-07-30, 03:44

Peace, harmony, and hail School Rumble. We all love our character/characters, and we all see School Rumble from our perspectives. To say one does not see any depth in a character is just as harsh as saying you should go home if you can't debate the current issue.

You see what you want to see and believe what you want to believe. What I see is just as relevant as what you see, and often times, just as right. And in the end, I would not try to judge you any less for your beliefs or the differences in your thoughts. To judge that I do not see depth in characters is a bit judgemental, considering the sheer amount of characters I have seen in the past and how they compare to your current character full of "depth."

As wingdarkness stated, SR is a great comedy with some drama thrown in. Heavy drama has never been the focal point of SR, and as such, does not have some of the character depth in other dramas, such as KOR, which is listed as a drama.

If you think Eri is such a great character with so much depth, then good for you. In your perspective, she is, but probably not from a lot of other people's perspective. I for one, believe Eri is a great character, as well as Yakumo and Tenma, who blends in with the cast of characters SR has to make the series as awesome as it is. I just don't see her like how you see her.

Xinil

2006-07-30, 04:11

ichigoismyhomie

2006-07-30, 04:25

Back to what ichigoismyhomie was saying about the whole quote between Yoko and Itoko...I took it as a complete joke. I thought that perhaps they knew that 10583 guys were watching them, so instead of being harassed by them, they decided to play out being lesbians. Maybe I'm just over analyzing though and they really are. Kinky. :-D

Can't wait for ep 17. I'm still torn between Harima x Eri or Harima x Yakumo. I just can't decide. One ep I'll lean toward one way, and then the next ep I'll be on the other side! Arrgg.

hm...........dammit.....i wish itoko is my cousin......lol:heh: third cousin apart that is......:twitch: stupid harima. how can he scared to such a fine, beautiful, and kinky creature like that.

about leaning toward yakumo or eri........im with u on that bro. The past couple episode has been messing with my brain on who to choose between the two. but next one seems to be leaning toward eri.

snkkid

2006-07-30, 09:26

Oh, School Rumble is not a Harem anime. For a Harem anime to work, there has to be several girls interested in the main protagonist, while the main protagonist is only interested in one of the several girls that is interested in him.

No one is saying that SR follows a strict harem formula, it's just you and Swampstorm taking whats being said to literally. What is being said is SR has an element of harem-ness to it which to certain degree is true it's just more complicated than that.

In SRs case, Harima is interested in a girl who has no interest in him whatsoever and is interested in a different guy, and is infact going well relationship wise with the other guy.

:confused: Are you kidding me/us? as of current (which includes the manga) Tenma's relationship with Karasuma is not much different than it is with Harima's relationship to Tenma.

Neither have yet to tell how they truely feel but both have got closer as "friends" to the people they are interested in.

So no it isn't going well for Tenma (in the love or confession department), how can it be when she is acting desperate and "so obvious" with Karasuma for the majority of times. As of current the relationship between Tenma and Karasuma is nothing more than friendship and Karasuma needs as much it as he can get as far as i'm concerned.

What you said about her not have any interest what so ever in Harima at all well we don't know that for sure. She may subconsiously harbour feelings for Harima. Starting all the back when they where both young and Harima first met Tenma when Harima saved her, she shouted out that she loves someone in her sleep (she fainted from the sight of Harima's cut on his back).

She's has suppressed those feelings because:

Misunderstanding the situation in the past.
She doesn't recognize Harima as her (perverted-)hero and thus she thinks she has never seen her hero ever again so she has to move on, especially because of no. 1.
Combined with 1 & 2 she tops it off or seals the deal with a new infatuation in her life.

If Harima could ever confess his feelings and explain everything to Tenma plus she finds out the other times that she has been helped/saved by Harima when she didn't know it was him (even when she did) i'm pretty certain she would have second thoughts just as much as Harima could have seconds thoughts about Eri, regardless of that it would be a major event in the manga anyways.

Even if the above wasn't the case, just having someone confess to another who initially has no interest in them (since there have never looked/thought about the other person in the that way before) could easily make that person think about it. What i'm saying is the fact she isn't currently interested means very little if at all.

Asianknight82

2006-07-30, 11:50

Well, I say things are going well between Tenma and Kurasama because whenever they are together Kurasama acts much more "human", he's able to talk about thigns and such he even said so himself some episodes ago, and when Harima tells him to go to Tenma cause its her birthday, He runs to her house. I say that is going well.

And here, the link to the definition of a Harem Anime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harem_anime

Red_eyes

2006-07-30, 21:06

Does anyone other than me think that season 1 was just so much better than season 2? Maybe because everything was so fresh...

Onizuka-GTO

2006-07-30, 21:22

Does anyone other than me think that season 1 was just so much better than season 2? Maybe because everything was so fresh...

nope.

Series 01 was good, but neaer the end it got worse, as the plot didn't advance at all.

Series 2 remedy that and is much better off, plus series 2 follows the manga much more closer and therefore in my opinion much better. :D

kenjiharima

2006-07-30, 23:47

hm...........dammit.....i wish itoko is my cousin......lol:heh: third cousin apart that is......:twitch: stupid harima. how can he scared to such a fine, beautiful, and kinky creature like that.

Remember Harima got shot in the head by Itoko a couple of episodes back? That scares me! :upset:

Harima is immortal! He's still alive after taking a bullet to the head! :heh:

Truth-kun

2006-07-31, 01:30

^

Actually, if you considered the Survival game Arc, ALL OF THEM ARE IMMORTAL! I can't imagine a decent human being not getting seriously injured by getting shot in closed quarters with a BB/Airgun. Theres one scene, "the other guy" was shot point blank in the head by Eri's butler. I think one could kill or seriously damage someone that way. @_@

In any case, its always good to debate, just as long as the emotional level is kept at a minimum. We all love School Rumble, so why get our heads hot by it? In the end, you cannot instantly shove your opinion on the other, and vise versa, so there is no point in getting all angry and hotheaded about it. The most important thing, is that you get your opinions across, and still keep the level of respect that rational individuals should have. :)

Swampstorm

2006-07-31, 11:09

Yeah people are not necessarily pure and tender for having a connection with animals, but in the context of SR Harima's connection to animals is specifically shown to express that side of his personality (In contrast to the delinquent stereotype his character embodies from the start)...Yakumo's ability to relate with animals and her percieved pureness of character is built in relationship to Harima to show that both have a quality that attracts kindness from animals...Overall in many folklores and legends the ability to garner acceptance or relationships with animals (or have the ability to easily tame them) speaks to the pureness and lack of ill-intentions toward them...So that was the main point I was trying to express...

The point that I was trying to make was that much of the main cast of SR have multifaceted personalities. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "pure", but it's hard to categorize a character into exlusively having good or evil intentions. Everyone knows that Harima has done acts with both selfless and selfish intent, in the past. I don't see what Harima's relationship with animals has to do with this.

a component of harem-anime is used in various aspects of the show...So when I say the Eri-Harima-Yakumo-Tenma-Kurasama, etc. pairings and couplings use a by-product of harem anime for funny or serious relationship situations I mean exactly that, not that the show is specifically 100% HAREM...C'mon you gotta learn to navigate the argument...Just because I say the sky is blue doesn't mean sometimes it's not orange or red...Comparatively SR having many harem-ish situationals doesn't mean that's all the show consists of...So neatly fold that contradiction and place it in your back-pocket...
Actually, I'm saying that this show has no harem element at all. A love triangle is not the same thing as a harem - otherwise every romantic anime would also be a harem anime. Harems are relationship webs where everything links back to a central point - the harem male. Let's relax that definition a bit, though, and try to describe SR as a series of interconnected harems. The problem, however, is in deciding who the central element of the harem is. For example, do I say that Tenma is a part of Harima's harem of Tenma, Eri, and possibly Yakumo or do I say that Harima is a part of Tenma's harem of Harima, Tougou, Karasuma, and Nara? Is Mikoto a part of Asou's harem of Mikoto and Sara, or is she a part of Imadori's harem of Mikoto, Mihara, Lala, and Karen? How do we decide the minimum number of people needed for a harem - should it just one? Two? Five? Do we only count characters who are interested, or do we also count characters who the harem centre is interested in?

The point I make here is that your "harem" is a completely arbitrary construction. Anyone can rewrite the relationship web in terms of a different set of harems, depending on their personal perspectives. By treating Harima's "harem" as if it were a real structural element of the anime is akin to presenting your opinion as if it were fact. I'm challenging the "harem" approach because it presents the series as a strange form of sporting event, where fans root for their favourite pairing to win. By contrast, SR isn't so focused on the "competition" as it is on describing a growing series of relationships. Viewing this series simply in terms of "winners" and "losers" can make the series grow sour on you.

Here's a partial layout of the relationships, as done by otacu from EFCPO:

http://efcpo.altervista.org/home.php?page=personaggi&sub=Info

Are you sure? :eyebrow: I'm talking about Eri after Yakumo...You took that out of context it seems...
It is circular. You say that Harima is natural around Yakumo (conclusion) because his relationship with her is a comfortable one (premise). You presuppose what you seek to prove.

As if I even have to say it again, but if you think this is winning the debate for you sobeit...
Actually, I was just having some fun with you, here. It's a bad habit of mine. ;)

Anyone watching this show understands pretty much what I am talking about..If you think me discussing the harem aspects distorts the show..Then your view of the show is distorted...I believe every person here is capable of understanding the harem aspect of the show without having to totally classify it under that heading...You give your fellow forum members far too little credit...
As I stated in earlier, any attempt to classify this series in terms of harems is absolutely arbitrary, and is a matter of personal opinion.

Your statements "Anyone understands..." and "You give your fellow forum members too little credit..." are unnecessary. Let's play with rhetoric instead of with politics, shall we? :upset:

Now you want to talk about irrelevant statements there you go..What does that have to do with you pretty much ignoring (or slighting) Harima's ridiculous obsession with Tenma?? (as expressed as currently as last episode)...My only point is that for this whole Eri-thing to work out it would seem quite ingenuous for Harima's feelings toward Tenma to totally dissapear or be absurdly pushed aside for that to happen...
You really don't expect Harima to get together with Eri with just this one story arc, do you? It's a process of growth. Harima makes some vital concessions in this story arc, and so does Eri. Seeing that in the absence of filler, we're bound to have a consistant dose of Flag in the remaining episodes, this is just one of a long chain of events that draw them closer together.

Karasuma is relevant because he turns the Oudou situation into a deadlock, giving Flag a chance to develop.

Good for you...It's quite natural to read many things into a character you enjoy...I'll agree that Eri does have alot of character interactions that are more realistic or that gives cashe to her character others don't necessarily have, but whether or not that is a deep expression is up to the person who recieves it...You love Eri for a reason...I simply don't see the same depth to your reasonings...and it seems to me her character can be changed and shaped basically at will to serve the show's harem or relationship aspects...kapeeesh...
Unless you can refer back to the series and show me how her character has been "shaped", I'll have a hard time seeing the reasoning on which your last point was based. Show me the percieved inconsistancy, and I'll show you the episode references that make it consistant.

Wow you are really sippin the Kool-aid...I can't hate, we all love certain characters for certain reasons...But Eri's character IMO doesn't even get the proper amount of screentime to compare favorably with characters I consider to really have intense depth of character(In all honesty when compared to the volume of anime I've digested she is a serious light-weight)...
After all, she's only been the main focus of most major story arcs to date:

Beach Vacation Arc:
Characters: Mikoto, Eri, and Harima
Conflict: Eri vs. Mikoto -> Jealousy
Resolution: Fireworks Scene

Tea Club Trip Arc:
Characters: All Major Characters
Conflict: None -> Mostly a set of comedic incidents and gags
Resolution: None (See above)

Sports Festival Arc:
Characters: Tae, Eri, and Harima.
Conflict: Eri vs. Harima & Eri vs. Tae -> Haircut, Jealousy, Injury.
Resolution: (Eri - Harima): Apology and Dance, (Eri - Tae): Clarification on Tae's relationship with Harima

Now these next two are a little different from the way that they look at a first glance.
Manga Writing Arc:
Characters: Yakumo, Eri, and Harima.
Conflict: Misunderstanding, Jealousy.
Resolution: Limo scene

This story arc begins with Eri thinking over the dance from the end of the last story arc. She concedes that Harima made her happy (for just a moment), but she dismisses the relationship as being impossible. At this point in time, if nothing else happened, then the story would come to a lull, and the relationship would fail to progress. Of course, that never happens. Eri can't get jealous over Tae now, since things have been cleared up between those two. Who can we turn to in order to give Flag a push in Tae's absence?
We get introduced to the conflict when Eri discovers Yakumo's 'relationship' with Harima. At which point Eri, while jealous, seems to give up. Interesting enough, in the manga, while the bulk of the story in this arc appears to be about Yakumo and Harima's relationship (this is quite possibly riceball's strongest story arc, up until now), the riceball scenes are juxtaposed with images of Eri looking pensive. The mangaka goes out of his way to show us that the situation is temporary. In addition, by showing Eri in various degrees of angst alongside the riceball scenes, we are constantly reminded that, even though riceball is making progress for the time being, we should really be sympathizing with Eri rather than celebrating.
The final point is in the conclusion. The manga story arc ends with the limo scene - where Harima notes that he doesn't have a girlfriend. The tension that was set up through the fake riceball relationship is lifted, and Eri regains hope. The net goal of this story arc has been accomplished - now, instead of dismissing the relationship as impossible, Eri shows an interest in the possibility that it might work out.

School Play Arc:
Characters: Yakumo, Eri, and Harima
Conflict: Eri vs. Yakumo -> Jealousy and Misunderstandings
Resolution: Afterparty - Clarification on Yakumo's relationship with Harima
If you read the last section, this one should be fairly simple. In the climax, we're faced with another "Oh no! Is Eri really gonna give up?" moment. This gets resolved by the Afterparty, which is analagous to the talk with Tae in the infirmary and the Limo scene for the last two story arcs, in order.

Basketball Arc:
Characters: Mikoto and Satsuki
Conflict: Satsuki, Mikoto, Asou love triangle, and Basketball team vs. Outcasts
Resolution: See Above
Well, this story arc is fairly short, and sets the stage for a side character pairing as a follow up to the School Play afterparty. Overall, it serves as some dramatic relief.

Sleepover/Omiai Arc:
Characters: Yakumo, Eri, and Harima
Conflict: Eri is in danger of leaving for England/Getting Engaged
Resolution: Harima to the Rescue?!

In between story arcs, we have a series of one-shot gag chapters that don't really advance the plot or introduce in a conflict. Harima and Tenma's birthdays are tied in to the Sleepover arc, but they don't introduce in any conflicts - they just set the story arc up. This is taken from another post of mine elsewhere, so it's a little rough. It should give you a rough idea of what I'm pointing out, though.

Recently I'm starting to veiw Tenma as the centerpiece performer of this show)...I love SR but I think you are setting yourself up for disaster diving into this intense romanticism of unearthly complexities you think you see in an arguably non-primary character on an overtly comedic anime...
I'm not saying that the show is necessarily serious or focused (which is one of the reasons why I'm skeptical about the relevance of Onigiri, with it's one sided, serious nature.) SR is a balance of comedy and plot - it isn't entirely plotless, like Azumanga, nor is it a serious romantic drama - it's a mixture of the two. For that reason, Flag serves as a centrepiece for the show. Tenma is an excellent comic, but she isn't a plot driven character, either - we depend on her being the same old Tenma throughout the series. Even her romance with Karasuma, while touching, tends to fade into the background as a purely structural element of the story. Rarely does her relationship with him lead to conflicts that drive the story - those conflicts are found elsewhere - with Eri and Harima.

So I don't think it's a question of viewing it from a shallow perspective as much as viewing it for what it is...If one were to read your examination of Eri's character and nothing else you'd think this was some "coming of age" self-realization HS drama and not a character-based ecletic comedy...
Remember Karasuma's final speech, in Ep.26 S1? Tenma asks if this is all a dream, and he replies that they are all in a dream - a dream called "youth" - and someday, on awaking from that dream, the memories would still remain. Seeing as they used those lines to wrap up Season 1, yes, I would say that this is, at least in part, a coming-of-age story. If you look at it, many of the jokes poke fun at the absurdity of adolesence, in general. SR is a comedy about human nature, at its heart.

Are you kidding me/us? as of current (which includes the manga) Tenma's relationship with Karasuma is not much different than it is with Harima's relationship to Tenma.

Neither have yet to tell how they truely feel but both have got closer as "friends" to the people they are interested in.

So no it isn't going well for Tenma (in the love or confession department), how can it be when she is acting desperate and "so obvious" with Karasuma for the majority of times. As of current the relationship between Tenma and Karasuma is nothing more than friendship and Karasuma needs as much it as he can get as far as i'm concerned.
Actually, Ep.3 S2 was a big turning point in this regard. At the end, Karasuma revealed to Tenma that he really does have strong feelings on the inside - he's just unable to express them around others. He also mentioned how she helped him open up. Tenma x Karasuma is easily one of the strongest relationships right now.

What you said about her not have any interest what so ever in Harima at all well we don't know that for sure. She may subconsiously harbour feelings for Harima. Starting all the back when they where both young and Harima first met Tenma when Harima saved her, she shouted out that she loves someone in her sleep (she fainted from the sight of Harima's cut on his back).

She's has suppressed those feelings because:

Misunderstanding the situation in the past.
She doesn't recognize Harima as her (perverted-)hero and thus she thinks she has never seen her hero ever again so she has to move on, especially because of no. 1.
Combined with 1 & 2 she tops it off or seals the deal with a new infatuation in her life.

If Harima could ever confess his feelings and explain everything to Tenma plus she finds out the other times that she has been helped/saved by Harima when she didn't know it was him (even when she did) i'm pretty certain she would have second thoughts just as much as Harima could have seconds thoughts about Eri, regardless of that it would be a major event in the manga anyways.
Much of this seems to be speculation on the future. Anything could be possible, in the future. The problem is that there is nothing to suggest an interest at present. To assume that Yakumo has a "subconcious" interest in Harima is equally premature. Why not wait for the interest to manifest, before jumping to conclusions?

Here's a test, though. If Harima and Yakumo's relationship has some basis in at least friendship, then they will continue to associate with each other, even in the absence of having a manga to write together. Otherwise, it would simply be a relationship of convenience, wouldn't it?

Does anyone other than me think that season 1 was just so much better than season 2? Maybe because everything was so fresh...
I think that's a side effect of the recent decentralized focus that started with the Basketball arc. The story should be fairly strong from here on.

miko tian

2006-08-01, 18:18

i don't particularly agree that season one was better than season two. it's kinda hard to compare them. season one strongly focused on tenma/harima from harima's point of view, but by season two, things get much more complicated, and the story shifts so that there is more development of side characters. also, season two allows us to get a stronger glimpse at how different characters interact, leading to immense amounts of misunderstanding and hilarity.

season two definitely has it's moments. to say that it feels recycled is a bit unfair, i think, because it definitely threw us a lot of curveballs :)

Deathkillz

2006-08-01, 19:56

retardation

2006-08-01, 20:03

that whole set battle royale episodes alone makes the second season worse than the first

thundrakkon

2006-08-01, 22:42

come to think of it does anyone know where the blood came from? even if they were using fake blood were they also pretending to die? O.o

The second episode of that arc was a reshowing of the video Akira made where she added special effects, such as blood.

horsdhaleine

2006-09-15, 19:17

i'm anti-flag but this ep is made me laugh so much! i'm giving it an 8!!! v funny! but not as funny as the previous eps... anyway, i love the harima/mikoto ofuro fart! kinda feel bad for eri and her butler though...

and yes, i adore the erik satie part at the end... it's my super favorite! good choice!