Bleach English Voice Actor Discussion

[Royal_Devil]

Again, I never said that the Japanese are godly people without any flaws at all.

Yet you've yet to address any of the flaws I've put up with more than a meh or a shrug yet can rant on and on when the same flaws come from English VAs.

And I'd still like to know the credentials for a seiyuu sucking as a replacement besides not being the original actor.

Maybe it's not directed at me but directed at what you think is stupid bias against subs?

I haven't seen any stupid bias against subs here.

And someone please tell me why Bebop's dub is the best? I wouldn't even put it in the top 10.

I agree: the Japanese dialogs sound deeper, and more poetic in a way, while the English version just dumbs everything down most of the time.

Just say you like the Japanese language more than English. That's basically where all your posts are pointing to and would have saved both of us a lot of typing.

[BleachOD]

I never said the Japanese are all good VA's. Take Naruto for an example. I hate his voice in either language.



Again, I never said that the Japanese are godly people without any flaws at all. I like his voice in both. I think it's very fitting. I like Rukia's voice in either language. Just like I prefer Inuyasha's voice in subs
. (Dem convention didn't start just yet. They are just discussing those bullshit polls) :rolleyes::
I started out a dubbie. When I started watching Inuyasha CN picked the first 20 episodes and played them to death. I got impatient and while I was ranting my boyfriend said you can get the subbed. So I got it. I hated it and it sounded like gibberish. CN began airing new seasons...I was excited but to my horror. I could no longer stand dubs. The "Ye"'s drove me nuts. They are in feudal Japan and not England!!! Another thing I noticed was Kappei Yamaguchi spoke as if he was barking like a dog. He growled in-between-words. The english VA did not do that ...

That was the point in which I realized subs were better than dubs . Every dub I see I get the sub if I can and compare them. Only few were as good as , and none were better than their Japanese Counterparts.

Gai-Sensei made me cry...literally when I heard him in English. I cry every time I watch the Bleach dub.:uhoh::heh:

[Nervous Venus]

That was the point in which I realized subs were better than dubs .

That's not true. And neither is the statement "Dubs are better than subs". I think it all boils down to our personal preferences.

[Kyero Fox]

I like his voice in both. I think it's very fitting. I like Rukia's voice in either language. Just like I prefer Inuyasha's voice in subs
. (Dem convention didn't start just yet. They are just discussing those bullshit polls) :rolleyes::
I started out a dubbie. When I started watching Inuyasha CN picked the first 20 episodes and played them to death. I got impatient and while I was ranting my boyfriend said you can get the subbed. So I got it. I hated it and it sounded like gibberish. CN began airing new seasons...I was excited but to my horror. I could no longer stand dubs. The "Ye"'s drove me nuts. They are in feudal Japan and not England!!! Another thing I noticed was Kappei Yamaguchi spoke as if he was barking like a dog. He growled in-between-words. The english VA did not do that ...

That was the point in which I realized subs were better than dubs . Every dub I see I get the sub if I can and compare them. Only few were as good as , and none were better than their Japanese Counterparts.

Gai-Sensei made me cry...literally when I heard him in English. I cry every time I watch the Bleach dub.:uhoh::heh:

don't forget to mention the DBZ dub XD my god.. their voices are so annoying... everyone except Vegita and piccilo sounded so childish and squeeky it hurt my ears. the English DBZ is way better in all espec.

now back to Bleach lol

I think Kenpachi and Pinky's voice acters are good but not a good as the japanese. atleast they didnt get Arnald to do Kenpachi XD

[BleachOD]

That's not true. And neither is the statement "Dubs are better than subs". I think it all boils down to our personal preferences.It is true to one who believes it. subs are better in my opinion

[Nervous Venus]

don't forget to mention the DBZ dub XD my god.. their voices are so annoying... everyone except Vegita and piccilo sounded so childish and squeeky it hurt my ears. the English DBZ is way better in all espec.

What is "espec", Kyero?

[Royal_Devil]

The sounding corny excuse has always seemed a case of finally realizing how odd it is for anyone to say such a thing. And Bleach is filled with cheese and corn in the manga alone.

Gai-Sensei made me cry...literally when I heard him in English. I cry every time I watch the Bleach dub.:uhoh::heh:

Gai is one of those cases where you now understand everything and what it must be like for a Japanese person watching him. Because the performances are virtually identical, you just understand English better and can pick it apart while remaining blissfully ignorant as to how you'd probably get the same reaction if you understood Japanese.

The best example of this is Excel Saga, where you can now understand just how annoying she is supposed to be to the viewer.

and none were better than their Japanese Counterparts.

I take it you've never seen Black Lagoon, Hellsing, or Desert Punk then? Hell, even Berserk but the Japanese version sucked in the first place with that. And in the case of the first two listed, I don't see how anyone can say the Japanese actors sound more natural when people of the characters' ethnicity or country of origin are the ones dubbing them (with the exception of Rock in BL)

[Hari Michiru]

And I'd still like to know the credentials for a seiyuu sucking as a replacement besides not being the original actor.

If they can't match the original tone of voice, with the right attitude, then they suck. They ARE replacements, after all, so they have to match up to the original.


Just say you like the Japanese language more than English. That's basically where all your posts are pointing to and would have saved both of us a lot of typing.

The subs put them nicely, and those are in English. They just have to change it a little bit and make good VA's say them and then, bam! it's a better dub.

[Royal_Devil]

The subs put them nicely, and those are in English.

Or you think they put them nicely. Shounen is generally very corny. That's the nature of the medium. I don't know why you think it's such a bad thing. Young boys like corny stuff and that's what Shounen Jump caters to. Death Note is really the only exception to this and even it had its moments.

My favorite example is "I'll never forgive you!" Sounds weak and cheesy in English no matter how you get it across yet the phrase holds deeper meaning to the Japanese. Hell, I never liked it when someone said that in a serious situation until I learned of the background and even now I have to remind myself "it works if you're Japanese."

They just have to change it a little bit and make good VA's say them and then, bam! it's a better dub.

By this, you just mean better, not good correct?

[Nervous Venus]

The sounding corny excuse has always seemed a case of finally realizing how odd it is for anyone to say such a thing. And Bleach is filled with cheese and corn in the manga alone.

We'd be hailing back to the culture argument. It sounds good in Japanese, if you know where it's coming from (like you mentioned). However, I have to agree that BLEACH is filled with muchos x 100 cheese. People just get distracted by all the swinging swords and occasional breasts.

[Royal_Devil]

We'd be hailing back to the culture argument. It sounds good in Japanese, if you know where it's coming from (like you mentioned). However, I have to agree that BLEACH is filled with muchos x 100 cheese. People just get distracted by all the swinging swords and occasional breasts.

The thing where I seem to disagree with some here is that any form of that line in English will be corny. Reading it does not magically take out the cheese. Saying it is no more cheesy if you ask me. It would probably only not be cheesy to me if I was Japanese

[Hari Michiru]

Or you think they put them nicely. Shounen is generally very corny. That's the nature of the medium. I don't know why you think it's such a bad thing. Young boys like corny stuff and that's what Shounen Jump caters to. Death Note is really the only exception to this and even it had its moments.

"Just as planned." :heh:


By this, you just mean better, not good correct?

Yeah.

[Royal_Devil]

"Just as planned." :heh:

I was thinking more along the potato chip TV thing. It took the dub for others to finally agree with me that any serious situation in ANY language should not have someone monologuing in his or her head about eating a potato chip.

[Hari Michiru]

I was thinking more along the potato chip TV thing. It took the dub for others to finally agree with me that any serious situation in ANY language should not have someone monologuing in his or her head about eating a potato chip.

Wow, I have hazy memory. Can't remember it...was it the time where Light was watching TV?

[Royal_Devil]

Wow, I have hazy memory. Can't remember it...was it the time where Light was watching TV?

Yes. Had it stuck with just writing something down under the bag it would have been fine, maybe even just mentioning how it would look like he's just making it look like he's eating a chip. But no, the anime had to get all dramatic with the potato chip eating part, music and everything.

[Hari Michiru]

Yes. Had it stuck with just writing something down under the bag it would have been fine, maybe even just mentioning how it would look like he's just making it look like he's eating a chip. But no, the anime had to get all dramatic with the potato chip eating part, music and everything.

Death Note overplays everything. XD

[Royal_Devil]

Death Note overplays everything. XD

That's what makes it corny like most shounen

[Mitsuomi1971]

I do not have a real problem with english dubbed anime...I mean ffs if the original actors can't speak english then of course they have to use other people anyway...if they do speak english and wanted to do the part in the dub there is no excuse for not allowing them...but I do not know that is the case just saying...two things I know will probably not be as good as the original for Bleach...1)Soi-fons and Yoroichi's battle and subsequent story of Soi-fons past...2)Genryuu-sensei's angry confrontation of Kyouraku Shunsui and Ukitake Jyuushiro during Ichigo's rescue of Rukia...those 2 moments will always be, for me the most intense of times in the show...to be sure there were other good intense moments, but those 2 were incredible to me. Even though the 2nd ended with no real battle whatsoever lol.

[Royal_Devil]

Well what do you know, someone who defends dubs gets negged on an anime forum :rolleyes:

I do not have a real problem with english dubbed anime...I mean ffs if the original actors can't speak english then of course they have to use other people anyway...if they do speak english and wanted to do the part in the dub there is no excuse for not allowing them...but I do not know that is the case just saying...two things I know will probably not be as good as the original for Bleach...1)Soi-fons and Yoroichi's battle and subsequent story of Soi-fons past...2)Genryuu-sensei's angry confrontation of Kyouraku Shunsui and Ukitake Jyuushiro during Ichigo's rescue of Rukia...those 2 moments will always be, for me the most intense of times in the show...to be sure there were other good intense moments, but those 2 were incredible to me. Even though the 2nd ended with no real battle whatsoever lol.

lol, Even if they could act in English the logistics of getting them to a recording studio in the states would be a nightmare. No system's in place yet to do it smoothly though in the redubbing of Macross they used one of the seiyuus with mixed results.

And why don't you find out about those scenes for yourself? they're on YouTube as we speak.

[Hari Michiru]

Well what do you know, someone who defends dubs gets negged on an anime forum :rolleyes:

I swear, it wasn't me :uhoh:.

[DjTrizz]

Well what do you know, someone who defends dubs gets negged on an anime forum :rolleyes:

indeed, I don't mind them...when they make sense

OD, you didn't like JYB's Vash? :sad: I need to watch a episode or two of the Japanese...cause I thought he fit the role quite well.

[Royal_Devil]

I swear, it wasn't me :uhoh:.

I doubt you'd ever use the word "dubbie" like that so relax.

Most of your complaints Hari, just seem to be the nature of the languages. English is naturally more monotone and doesn't flow as well as the Japanese language.

Of course, when I look at my top 10 dubs only a few of them take place in Japan. Majority are either not set in Japan or just have a more Western feel to them. Let's face it, when it comes to giving appropriate accents to people of different races from around the world English definitely has a greater range at the moment than Japanese.

Makes me wonder how anime would be if more people from other races could act in Japanese well enough to get parts. Of course, there has been a rise in anime produced originally in English as well.

As far as Bleach is concerned, I'd like to see characters like Tousen and Zomarii voiced by actual African Americans (though it's too late for Tousen).

OD, you didn't like JYB's Vash? I need to watch a episode or two of the Japanese...cause I thought he fit the role quite well.

He does fit. Mostly because the performances are actually quite similar save for the languages they're speaking. Though I watch it mostly because I much prefer Legato's English voice and he's my favorite character.

[Hari Michiru]

I doubt you'd ever use the word "dubbie" like that so relax.

Most of your complaints Hari, just seem to be the nature of the languages. English is naturally more monotone and doesn't flow as well as the Japanese language.

Of course, when I look at my top 10 dubs only a few of them take place in Japan. Majority are either not set in Japan or just have a more Western feel to them. Let's face it, when it comes to giving appropriate accents to people of different races from around the world English definitely has a greater range at the moment than Japanese.



LOLWTF, dubbie? That's...unheard of...

That's why I like to think that the Japanese songwriters have a 'hack'. The Asian languages are generally more poetic and stuff, while English is meh.

That's why I like the Code Geass (set in an 'English speaking' world) over Bleach (Japan).

[Mitsuomi1971]

Lmao...Japanese is more poetic? Listen...great poetry comes from all languages...erm uh Shakespeare comes to mind, or maybe Tennyson, or Joyce...on and on...what is poetic to one is mish mash to another...as far as watching those eps on youtube in english I am confounded as to how they exist in english since they have not been released in english yet afaik, I have all NTSC region 1 discs released for Bleach and it is not up to that part yet. I think it is a matter of what one likes...I enjoy the original language of Bleach...however the dub actors do try hard and sound decent to me...also I do not see censorship at all...in fact when I compare a DB ep with a Cartoon Network english ep the CN episode is just as tough, I realize censorship used to happen but not anymore on CN asfaik...I think the lesson was learned from DBZ...but to each their own...I like both versions, but must admit that I prefer the Japanese version.

[Kyero Fox]

LOLWTF, dubbie? That's...unheard of...

That's why I like to think that the Japanese songwriters have a 'hack'. The Asian languages are generally more poetic and stuff, while English is meh.

That's why I like the Code Geass (set in an 'English speaking' world) over Bleach (Japan).

I think you should just drop this entire subject. Seriously its getting out of hand.. or rather.. annoying.

[Royal_Devil]

as far as watching those eps on youtube in english I am confounded as to how they exist in english since they have not been released in english yet afaik, I have all NTSC region 1 discs released for Bleach and it is not up to that part yet.

Bleach has been airing on Adult Swim. They're on the Bount arc now. That's where YouTube gets it from. DVD releases are generally behind the TV airing

[Nervous Venus]

I think you should just drop this entire subject. Seriously its getting out of hand.. or rather.. annoying.

There's always the ignore button. It's rather annoying to have people complain about other posters when they could just do something as simple as this without the useless post to take up space.

Anyway, I'm with Mitsuomi on this one. The Bleach dubs aren't so bad, but personal preferences affect my decision and I prefer the original voices.

[Mitsuomi1971]

^^ Thanks I have not seen any new eps here on CN fo a few weeks must be airing when I am sleeping lol

and I don't do youtube thanks though....although I did do a quick search a couple times with google and youtubes search engine and only found the subbed versions...but I appreciate the knowledge about Cartoon Network airing those eps...the last I saw they were on ep 52 I believe...

[BleachOD]

Makes me wonder how anime would be if more people from other races could act in Japanese well enough to get parts. Of course, there has been a rise in anime produced originally in English as well.

As far as Bleach is concerned, I'd like to see characters like Tousen and Zomarii voiced by actual African Americans (though it's too late for Tousen).



. I would use dubbie but I didn't do it...:uhoh:

I would hear love them voiced by African Americans too. The english VA for Tousen just sucks! I hate the way he just says his lines..no feeling whatsoever!

Toshiyuki Morikawa does it well and he does sound black.
The sounding corny excuse has always seemed a case of finally realizing how odd it is for anyone to say such a thing. And Bleach is filled with cheese and corn in the manga alone.



Gai is one of those cases where you now understand everything and what it must be like for a Japanese person watching him. Because the performances are virtually identical, you just understand English better and can pick it apart while remaining blissfully ignorant as to how you'd probably get the same reaction if you understood Japanese.

The best example of this is Excel Saga, where you can now understand just how annoying she is supposed to be to the viewer.



I take it you've never seen Black Lagoon, Hellsing, or Desert Punk then? Hell, even Berserk but the Japanese version sucked in the first place with that. And in the case of the first two listed, I don't see how anyone can say the Japanese actors sound more natural when people of the characters' ethnicity or country of origin are the ones dubbing them (with the exception of Rock in BL)
Devil didn't I say I dl everything Daisuke Namikawa ever done?


I watched BL when it was first released. Desert Punk I am on the 3rd episode. I just decided to watch since I have it. I loved both Rock and Revy. Revy was supposed to speak with a Chinese, NY, American accent.(She is actually supposed to be speaking in english the whole time) Balalaika uses english as well. Actually the whole cast is supposed to be speaking it. I love that anime. I especially loved it because I believe Daisuke Namikawa is wonderful actor. I loved the way he played Rock.
He and fellow seiyuu Megumi Toyoguchi (Revy) have a great chemistry. It's probably they are often cast opposite of each other.

It's not just the "sound" of a actor that makes it for me. I judge seiyuu/VA on their acting abilities. The VA may have a feel for the character, however it doesn't change the fact he is a lousy actor. He is and Gai-Sensei is terribly done.
It does sound corny even if it's a corny name in Japanese. It still sounds cooler. I've made fun of plenty of names for special moves. My thing is the actors are not as good in English dubs. Most are terrible at because being a VA is the bottom of the barrel. It's not a respected craft where I am from. Unless it's a big production like Disney or Pixar. Japanese people respect VA's . So there are many seiyuu's who are awesome to chose from. Unlike in English dubs. We just get the "Best of" the shittiest actors and actresses.

So again. English dubs sound corny. The actors are horrible. They can't even manage to sound different when playing different roles. their pronunciation is horrible and they make the anime seem campy when it's really some heavy shit.
The excitement, emotion and intensity I feel when I am watching subs, is lost on cutting room floor of dubs.

Please don't assume I just mean "sound". I do not; I am also including acting abilities. JYB..has none imo. He does not do justice to Ichigo's character. He isn't arrogant enough. Example episodes 57-58. JYB was such a hash! He wasn't a cocky braggart at all, more like stupefied amazement.Ichigo's natural arrogance doesn't come across very well. The fangirl in me is horrified by it.

Ichigo's Seiyuu has Ichigo's character down pat. (He reads the manga ) If he was changed I wouldn't like it. If the other seiyuu doesn't capture Ichigo. I will talk about his ass too! If he could act the part without changing Ichigo's character I wouldn't mind it. If JYB could put the bad ass in to Ichigo, I wouldn't have a problem with him.

The way he said "This stand is gonna tumble down..." ...Tumble down...?:upset: does that sound bad assed to you?

I just can't get with English dubs. The acting in subs is much better.


Well what do you know, someone who defends dubs gets negged on an anime forum :rolleyes:


. Are you serious? Who ever did that is stupid. I only gave three red reps ever. Two of em I used to flame the people that flamed me and was not at this forum. One for filler police-san because the bastard always does it to me. I can't give you rep bad or good because I gave you cookie for image not to long ago...

It wasn't me;:nono: I hope you know that. I like you and have no reason to do that. I wouldn't for something like this.

Devil is entitled to devil's own opinion! Please people cookie devil to make up for neg rep


EDITFLASHBACK...UH...I think I might have by accident. I was handing out rep and my mother interrupted me in the middle of it and I got up and my son Kaelin clicked on the button. You were the person I gave red-rep to by accident. I remember having a fit and my mother couldn't understand why I so mad she did grab him before he picked up the mouse. ....I didn't get to sign it either. "Dubbie" made remember because I do use it all the time. I swear to god it was an accident! Please copy and paste it and I will tell you if it was me...:uhoh:

It's coming back to me because I did use dubbie. I was letting you know it's all good and I got up and he clicked on disagree and he hit the mouse before I could change it. I swear to god I didn't mean it. I wouldn't do because we differ in opinion. Please believe me...

I just told Hana-san I've done that before...I swear to god I didn't mean it. I wouldn't do that.

[Royal_Devil]

Toshiyuki Morikawa does it well and he does sound black.

You must know some funny black people because he doesn't sound a thing like any of the ones I've heard speaking.

I watched BL when it was first released. Desert Punk I am on the 3rd episode. I just decided to watch since I have it. I loved both Rock and Revy. Revy was supposed to speak with a Chinese, NY, American accent.(She is actually supposed to be speaking in english the whole time) Balalaika uses english as well. Actually the whole cast is supposed to be speaking it. I love that anime. I especially loved it because I believe Daisuke Namikawa is wonderful actor. I loved the way he played Rock.
He and fellow seiyuu Megumi Toyoguchi (Revy) have a great chemistry. It's probably they are often cast opposite of each other.

Their English actors are awesome too and have the added bonus of accents and such that fit their characters, ie Dutch is voiced by an actual black man and is actually acted pretty well.

As Desert Punk actually has a superior dub script. The Japanese version is toned down in comparison to the English script. Yes, Funi took liberties in the translation but it works here because DP is a show that needs bite to it's dialog. It needs someone calling a guy's mother a dirty whore instead of saying she has an outty. Then again, I find comedies generally do better in English since they sound absurd anyway.

Now if you ever get to Hellsing keep in mind the Japanese staff has HEAVY involvement in the dubbing of it. The director and members of the cast have meat with Hirano on many occasions to discuss the localization.

And you still haven't told me what makes Bebop the big exception.

Japanese people respect VA's . So there are many seiyuu's who are awesome to chose from. Unlike in English dubs. We just get the "Best of" the shittiest actors and actresses.


Like I said, voice acting is no more respected there in the big picture than it is here. Only people in the industry and otakus give a damn about seiyuus. The general public see them as nothing more than cartoon voice actors. Only those from classic series have the level of respect you describe, and when I say classic I mean decades old.

Not even Miyazaki respects them, always preferring to use actual Japanese celebrities instead of ones always in the animation industry.

They can't even manage to sound different when playing different roles. their pronunciation is horrible and they make the anime seem campy when it's really some heavy shit.

Would you believe Yuzu and Rukia share the same voice actress? Same with Ganju and Aizen. Liam's doing three roles. Orihime's VA was also Mamimi in FLCL. Going to Ocean Group (and Inuyasha), Scott McNeil successfully voiced four different characters in Beast Wars.

Hell, in Blood+ Saya and Diva had different seiyuus while the same dub actress was used for both and pulled off two distinct voices. Steve Blum: he's Spike, he's Guilmon, he Leeron, he's Orochimaru, he's Zabuza. Of course, seiyuu rarely have to deal with playing multiple roles in one show. But if you don't recognize the voice coming from one character then you've most likely not realized that character's sharing a VA with another.

On top of that, sounding the same has never bothered me as long as they do it well. Keith David always sounds the same. James Earl Jones always sounds the same. Morgan Freeman always sounds the same. Same for most stuff from Disney despite all the praise you've given them. Yet no seiyuu can even touch them if you ask me. So lack of range should not be a problem.

And unless you have a problem with Engrish, please avoid the pronunciation thing when addressing me (Engrish is was killed any hope of me liking BL in Japanese. Besides, they say the F word more in English)

Please don't assume I just mean "sound". I do not; I am also including acting abilities. JYB..has none imo.

Never played Devil May Cry 4 I see. Or watched Heat Guy J, which is my favorite performance from him.

The acting in subs is much better.

No it's not. Of course, by now I'm wondering if your bias will make you prefer non-Japanese cartoons when they're in Japanese for some strange reason.

And quite bringing up Disney and Pixar please. The actors there even have the advantage of have traits of the character modeled after them on top of the animation being done after they're done recording.

ED: Of course, this is why the manga is better than the anime. You can insert any voice you choose. Me, I've always attached Justin Cook's (Yusuke Urameshi) voice to Ichigo.

And just to be fair, why not inform us of any seiyuu performances (maybe from Bleach) you actually don't like. Otherwise, I'll have to call blind bias.

[poptart]

It's not just the "sound" of a actor that makes it for me. I judge seiyuu/VA on their acting abilities. The VA may have a feel for the character, however it doesn't change the fact he is a lousy actor. He is and Gai-Sensei is terribly done.
It does sound corny even if it's a corny name in Japanese. It still sounds cooler. I've made fun of plenty of names for special moves. My thing is the actors are not as good in English dubs. Most are terrible at because being a VA is the bottom of the barrel. It's not a respected craft where I am from. Unless it's a big production like Disney or Pixar. Japanese people respect VA's . So there are many seiyuu's who are awesome to chose from. Unlike in English dubs. We just get the "Best of" the shittiest actors and actresses.

So again. English dubs sound corny. The actors are horrible. They can't even manage to sound different when playing different roles. their pronunciation is horrible and they make the anime seem campy when it's really some heavy shit.
The excitement, emotion and intensity I feel when I am watching subs, is lost on cutting room floor of dubs.

Please don't assume I just mean "sound". I do not; I am also including acting abilities. JYB..has none imo. He does not do justice to Ichigo's character. He isn't arrogant enough. Example episodes 57-58. JYB was such a hash! He wasn't a cocky braggart at all, more like stupefied amazement.Ichigo's natural arrogance doesn't come across very well. The fangirl in me is horrified by it.

Ichigo's Seiyuu has Ichigo's character down pat. (He reads the manga ) If he was changed I wouldn't like it. If the other seiyuu doesn't capture Ichigo. I will talk about his ass too! If he could act the part without changing Ichigo's character I wouldn't mind it. If JYB could put the bad ass in to Ichigo, I wouldn't have a problem with him.

The way he said "This stand is gonna tumble down..." ...Tumble down...?:upset: does that sound bad assed to you?

I just can't get with English dubs. The acting in subs is much better.


thank you for saying what i also think.

i cant get into the english dubs because they just dont sound right. not because i watched them in Japanese first but because the actors choice for voicing the character doesnt sound right. they either overact or underact making the the scene not believable at all :frustrated:

Ichigo doesnt have that... innate thing that makes you believe what he says. when the Japanese seiyuu says he is going to protect his friends i believe it, when he is torn over his mothers death i believe it, when he is completely clueless about things i believe it. the dubber just sounds like he is saying his lines... with conviction yes, but it lacks the power and emotion needed to connect with me.

there is this almost.... distance from the underlayers of what they are saying. i dont really expect them to pronounce things perfectly as they are not native speakers. however i do expect them to relay the feeling behind what they are saying. this is where the english dubs fail 9.5 out of 10.

there is a range of emotions missing from all of their performances that leaves me lacking.

plus the way the bungle the more comedic moments just kills. there is this scene when ichigo and yourichi are in the healing spa thing in the secret training grounds and he says something to the effect of "you built this huge place in secret?" or something (to lazy to look it up D:) but the inflection on the line was that of subtle comedy as opposed to the overly obvious heavy handed delivery of the dubber


they always sound exactly the same and never really change up inflections or delivery from character to character. its the same tired thing every time...

english has way more different accents and more than enough people in america to actual cast the different ethnicities if the choose to.... yet they dont.


Like I said, voice acting is no more respected there in the big picture than it is here. Only people in the industry and otakus give a damn about seiyuus. The general public see them as nothing more than cartoon voice actors. Only those from classic series have the level of respect you describe, and when I say classic I mean decades old.

Not even Miyazaki respects them, always preferring to use actual Japanese celebrities instead of ones always in the animation industry.

actually yes they are respected in japan. many are featured on talk shows and allowed to release not only character/anime theme songs (which have been known to do quite well on the charts) but also many have their own musical bands that do quite well due large and in part to their fans.

there are also huge conventions that feature the seiyuu and can be three day events full of fans that come to see them. as many of their imported media are dubbed by them as well many seiyuu will rise above even the "anime only" status as their voices are linked with the hollywood movies they enjoy. some are even synonymous with the actual actor themselves as will be the go to voice for a large portion of their work.

anime is a part of their culture and as the animation does encompass more adult topics even adults will know and have a seiyuu that they enjoy or respect. heck even celebrities will know the names and faces of their favorite seiyuu. the same really cant be said with the english VA.

to keep throwing out the one person prefers to use Japanese celebrities is nothing more than that... its his preference. if he has a certain voice in mind and had created it while hearing it sounding a certain way then that what HE prefers... Miyazaki does not represent the seiyuu world at all.

your argument is faulty in another area on the topic of respect in that there is a HUGE market for seiyuu in the drama CD world. this something that is not translated over in english because the quality of the english voice actors pales in comparison to the japanese seiyuu.

can you imagine listening to the english voice actors versions of the drama cs or beat collections.... i'd rather not. the test of quality comes into play when you have nothing to distract you from the sound and delivery.

[Royal_Devil]

english has way more different accents and more than enough people in america to actual cast the different ethnicities if the choose to.... yet they dont.

Yet even when they do you still never give them a chance.

actually yes they are respected in japan. many are featured on talk
shows and allowed to release not only character/anime theme songs (which have been known to do quite well on the charts) but also many have their own musical bands that do quite well due large and in part to their fans.

Fans that are mostly otaku. Others like them for the music, not their voice acting. Not to mention a number of dub actors have there own bands as well. Funi is the one that dubs openings and endings the most, often with their actors

there are also huge conventions that feature the seiyuu and can be three day events full of fans that come to see them. as many of their imported media are dubbed by them as well many seiyuu will rise above even the "anime only" status as their voices are linked with the hollywood movies they enjoy. some are even synonymous with the actual actor themselves as will be the go to voice for a large portion of their work.

We have big conventions here too. Your point? Kubo even commented how he'd never been to anything as big as Comic-con, which features English actors in panels from many fields among others.

And now you support dubbing? But only when the ones dubbing are Japanese because they're just so perfect right?

your argument is faulty in another area on the topic of respect in that there is a HUGE market for seiyuu in the drama CD world. this something that is not translated over in english because the quality of the english voice actors pales in comparison to the japanese seiyuu.

Again, only with otaku. Otaku in Japan are willing to shell the cash to make these things successful. Otaku and children make up most of anime's audiences. Anyone not in that group (the majority of the country) really doesn't care about these things. Not to mention they're glorified portfolios, which all voice actors have.

can you imagine listening to the english voice actors versions of the drama cs or beat collections.... i'd rather not. the test of quality comes into play when you have nothing to distract you from the sound and delivery.

If you don't even give anyone not speaking Japanese a chance why bother even listening? You've already closed yourself off to other possibilities. If you go in with the mentality "Japanese are always better," then guess what the result will always be. It doesn't matter how much English actors improve if they've already been shut out.

[BleachOD]

Listen what about the rep. You just dismissed it.and now you are posting like you are mad. If I did do it because I did get somebody by accident. I am just assuming it was you. I would not do it on purpose. Please believe me...I hate to make another enemy.

You must know some funny black people because he doesn't sound a thing like any of the ones I've heard speaking.


No. but I know a lot of em. Just about all my relatives are black (there are other races but primarily we are black)

In the sub. Tousen is believable.

Some people say there is no such thing as sounding black...but that's a lie. We do sound different whether we articulate or not. Just how many have you heard? I will wager you haven't heard more than I have. Unless you are black I think I am a better judge than you.:uhoh:


Their English actors are awesome too and have the added bonus of accents and such that fit their characters, ie Dutch is voiced by an actual black man and is actually acted pretty well.Didn't watch the dub so I have to take your word for it. Just because he's voiced by a black guy doesn't mean his acting is great.

As Desert Punk actually has a superior dub script. The Japanese version is toned down in comparison to the English script. Yes, Funi took liberties in the translation but it works here because DP is a show that needs bite to it's dialog. It needs someone calling a guy's mother a dirty whore instead of saying she has an outty. Then again, I find comedies generally do better in English since they sound absurd anyway.

Now if you ever get to Hellsing keep in mind the Japanese staff has HEAVY involvement in the dubbing of it. The director and members of the cast have meat with Hirano on many occasions to discuss the localization. I think the comedies do better in Japan. Sometimes it doesn't translate well and the humor is lost because of the cultural differences. Some behaviors come of as unnatural. Certain gestures and gesticulations are not done in ours. So it appears over exaggerated and that makes it appear silly.

And you still haven't told me what makes Bebop the big exception.

Um...You said it was the great exception. I just said it was a good dub. The acting was fairly well. I really liked Steve Blum's spike and Ed. The episode with the mushrooms was funny as hell. I started out as a dubbie. So it was one I am fine with it. I didn't desire to see the sub like I did with other series.




Like I said, voice acting is no more respected there in the big picture than it is here. Only people in the industry and otakus give a damn about seiyuus. The general public see them as nothing more than cartoon voice actors. Only those from classic series have the level of respect you describe, and when I say classic I mean decades old.

Not even Miyazaki respects them, always preferring to use actual Japanese celebrities instead of ones always in the animation industry.

Um thats what I said. Why did you agree only to say this...:confused:

And quite bringing up Disney and Pixar please. The actors there even have the advantage of have traits of the character modeled after them on top of the animation being done after they're done recording.

You totally agreed with me above and then did a turn around here.

Number one: " quite bringing up Disney and Pixar please" NO! I will not. That is the only time you get quality acting. You don't have to agree but you sound like post Hitler. You can't tell me which points to use...:uhoh::heh:

Otherwise you get has-beens i.e Erick Estrada, Mark Hamil, Cree Summer...
You don't get quality actors and to most of them it's just a job so they don't put their all in to it. Or they do and they just can't act and that's why they can only do VA. Japan does not have this attitude






Would you believe Yuzu and Rukia share the same voice actress?

Would you believe I ALREADY KNEW THAT?! :rolleyes: ( & All that other stuff I didn't quote. If I like an actor I will not only search anything I can find. I will dl everything that person has done. )



I am a Bleachotaku how could you think I didn't know that?:heh::uhoh: She said this in her very first interview. It was for a Bleach site months before the release. It's where I saw Ishida's VA and his disdain for voice acting...
You will remember I said I liked the voice actress who does Rukia. I was not talking about Rukia's VA. There are some exceptions.

Hell, in Blood+ Saya and Diva had different seiyuus while the same dub actress was used for both and pulled off two distinct voices. Steve Blum: he's Spike, he's Guilmon, he Leeron, he's Orochimaru, he's Zabuza. Of course, seiyuu rarely have to deal with playing multiple roles in one show. But if you don't recognize the voice coming from one character then you've most likely not realized that character's sharing a VA with another.
Guess what? I didn't like the actress who did Saya and Diva. That was one of the worse dubs ever!

What makes you think I haven't realized, or known this? How many times do I have to tell you I judge them based on their acting ability. Not many you named sound different when playing the other roles.
Actually a lot of seiyuu's voice multiple roles in one show. However that's not how I meant it. You went on a tangent for nothing. I meant period. I meant they sound the same way and act the same way no matter what role. Diva and Riku have the same seiyuu in the sub. She was a great actress. I recognized her instantly as Sango's brother in Inuyasha. I have an ear for voices, most the time I can call them right away. Others take a minute. That's for both Japanese and English. Please don't assume I didn't take that into account when making my decision. Don't assume I didn't recognize the actors...I did. I still think the acting is better in subs!!!!

And unless you have a problem with Engrish, please avoid the pronunciation thing when addressing me (Engrish is was killed any hope of me liking BL in Japanese. Besides, they say the F word more in English)


. Who cares about profanity? their pronunciation is horrible. I am not the only one who says this. How can you tell me what reasons I am allowed to have?

I don't have a problem with Engrish. I don't see what that has to do with anything. I don't see what addressing you have to do with Black Lagoon...:uhoh:

Renji's pronunciation of Hihou Zabimaru is terrible. He doesn't say it right. A lot of them do not. They could take the time and try to say it correctly.



No it's not. Of course, by now I'm wondering if your bias will make you prefer non-Japanese cartoons when they're in Japanese for some strange reason. Never seen it any so I can't say. Probably not... If I liked it in English unless it turns out like Inuyasha and is better and funnier in subs. Then I might...I can't really say.

When Inuyasha decides he's going to give his life to Kikyo. From the moment when Kagome says "There is no place for me between me and them" and it switches to Inu and he says "We can't see each other any more" The pain in his voice, the way he delivers his line as he says this. I could feel how much it hurt him. I cry every time I see that scene. I don't feel that emotion from the dubbed episode. I hardly ever feel any emotion except disgust when I watch dubs.

[Royal_Devil]

Listen what about the rep. You just dismissed it.and now you are posting like you are mad. If I did do it because I did get somebody by
accident. I am just assuming it was you. I would not do it on purpose. Please believe me...I hate to make another enemy.

If I don't reply then that means it doesn't matter anymore. I've had a whole day to get over it. It clearly wasn't you so why does it have to come up?

Some people say there is no such thing as sounding black...but that's a lie. We do sound different whether we articulate or not. Just how many have you heard? I will wager you haven't heard more than I have. Unless you are black I think I am a better judge than you.:uhoh:

Do you really want this to turn into a debate about how many black people we've met or at least have heard? You don't have to be black to get to know what a number of black people of multiple nationalities and background sound like in conversation. For example, the black people in Britain I had many conversations with sounded nothing like American ones. Still, Tousen's seiyuu, sounds like nothing I've heard from any of them.

Japan's lazy when it comes to foreign accents. They know they can't get it right with just Japanese people so they just go with someone who acts well. I accepted that truth a long time ago.

Didn't watch the dub so I have to take your word for it. Just because he's voiced by a black guy doesn't mean his acting is great.

See for yourself then. Though I say don't bother if you go in with the mentality that it will always suck

I think the comedies do better in Japan. Sometimes it doesn't translate well and the humor is lost because of the cultural differences. Some behaviors come of as unnatural. Certain gestures and gesticulations are not done in ours. So it appears over exaggerated and that makes it appear silly.

But in DP's case the English jokes fit the show better and make it overall more entertaining. I don't always think the Japanese always do it better. Sometimes doing your own thing in something is a good thing. Worked for Ghost Stories, which was a boring show I wouldn't give a second glance after one episode. The gag dub by ADV at least made me watch the whole thing through. DP's dub does change some jokes but I would hardly call it out of place.

To put it simply, they may not translate the jokes accurately but it's still funnier unless you think everything has to be exactly like the Japanese version and that the Japanese version is always perfect.

Um...You said it was the great exception. I just said it was a good dub. The acting was fairly well. I really liked Steve Blum's spike and Ed. The episode with the mushrooms was funny as hell. I started out as a dubbie. So it was one I am fine with it. I didn't desire to see the sub like I did with other series.


So you seriously believe none of the actors in Bebop have given better performances in anything?

Um thats what I said. Why did you agree only to say this...:confused:


The way you said it made it sound like you were saying they're treated a lot better than voice actors are here, which I disagree with.

Number one: " quite bringing up Disney and Pixar please" NO! I will not. That is the only time you get quality acting. You don't have to agree but you sound like post Hitler. You can't tell me which points to use...:uhoh::heh:

It was a request, not an order because Disney should have no relevance in this discussion. Because dubbing something in any language and voicing a Disney movie are like day in night when you compare the processes. You can't compare a role tailor made to fit the voice actor to one that requires the voice actor to do all the work with none of the help the Disney process provides.

Dub actors have a lot more going against them, which is why I honestly respect a good performance from them than one from Disney.

Otherwise you get has-beens i.e Erick Estrada, Mark Hamil, Cree Summer...
You don't get quality actors and to most of them it's just a job so they don't put their all in to it. Or they do and they just can't act and that's why they can only do VA. Japan does not have this attitude

How the hell are those three has-beens. They're voices and their performances never get old. And since you do so much research you'd know how much of a nerd Hamil is when it comes to comics and voicing them. Look, if you truly believe this then I just give up. If no English actors not in a Disney can be as good as Japanese actors in anything then this discussion is pointless. I'll admit, I don't like when someone puts down an entire culture's works like that.

I've always believed everything has its good and its bad and that no one way is better than the other. I take it you don't share the sentiment?

Who cares about profanity? their pronunciation is horrible. I am not the only one who says this. How can you tell me what reasons I am allowed to have?

Because BL is a show that needs profanity maybe? Because the BL universe requires it in spades?

I don't have a problem with Engrish. I don't see what that has to do with anything. I don't see what you have to do with Black Lagoon...:uhoh:

This entire thread you've practically jumped at the opportunity to criticize English actors everytime they've pronounced a Japanese word wrong yet don't seem to do the same when Japanese do the same to English.

You've also said the mispronouncing Japanese words have ruined dubs for you. I was simply countering with an example of the opposite happening to me.

Same goes for overacting. that's the biggest problem seiyuus have yet you only call dub actors on it.

Never seen it any so I can't say. Probably not... If I liked it in English unless it turns out like Inuyasha and is better and funnier in subs. Then I might...I can't really say.

I'm talking about shows originally done in English. Like a Japanese dub of a Disney movie. Comparing that to Inuyasha doesn't make any sense

I'll ask again: Are there any Japanese performances you actually don't like? Any in Bleach? Any in other anime? Otherwise, I'm seeing nothing but blind bias from you. Sorry

[DjTrizz]

hey now OD...Mark Hamill was an awesome Joker VA :mad:

[Royal_Devil]

hey now OD...Mark Hamill was an awesome Joker VA :mad:

Exactly. He was also awesome in Castle in the Sky. And I always look forward to his next performance, which I believe will be in the next Afro Samurai.

[poptart]

Yet even when they do you still never give them a chance.

did i ever say that or did you editorialize my comment to fit your needs.

Fans that are mostly otaku. Others like them for the music, not their voice acting.

and your facts that the hundreds and sometime thousands of people are all Otakus comes from???

and even if they are not what is the need to put a qualifier on their respect by placing a "by otakus" on it. does it make them any less respected.

fans are fans. you can spin it any way you want, but these are people that highly respect the level and quality of work these people do.

is the only way you will accept that they are respected is that if a non-otaku acknowledges them.... i remember watching a tv show with Hyde on it and he mentions being moved by seeing the seiyuu that voiced Doraemon on the same plane as him. that he was excited cause he really likes her.


We have big conventions here too. Your point? Kubo even commented how he'd never been to anything as big as Comic-con, which features English actors in panels from many fields.

there are conventions dedicated to voice actors where hundreds or thousands of people show up and treat them like rock stars... never knew that...

whats it callled?

And now you support dubbing? But only when the ones dubbing are Japanese because they're just so perfect right?

again please quote me saying that they are perfect.... i make a pretty good habit of saying what i mean and meaning what i say. no need to add on to get my meaning.

i said that seiyuu, as opposed to their english VA counterparts, hold a different position and level of respect due to the fact that their voices carry over to so many different forms of media. its not just cartoons that they become known for...

which goes against your "otaku only" standpoint. for those that may not know or relate them to an anime character they would also be known for their non anime dubbing roles...

i dont think i can make it clearer than that. no need to add anything to it.

Again, only with otaku. Otaku in Japan are willing to shell the cash to make these things successful. Otaku and children make up most of anime's audiences. Anyone not in that group (the majority of the country) really doesn't care about these things.

again... fans are fans... you feeling the need to put a qualifier on it doesnt discount it. and otaku and children do not make up the most of anime's audiences as that would not be enough to sustain an ever flourishing business. their is a wide range of anime that all sorts of people watch so i think thats a bit of conjecture on your part.

can you tell me where you get the idea that other than otaku and children, nobody really cares about anime? i'd love to read up on it :D

If you don't even give anyone not speaking Japanese a chance why bother even listening? You've already closed yourself off to other possibilities. If you go in with the mentality "Japanese are always better," then guess what the result will always be. It doesn't matter how much English actors improve if they've already been shut out.

*sigh* again... please quote me saying i wouldnt give them a chance... i dont like it when people put words in my mouth or twist my words to fit their argument.

if you put out a low quality product i'm not gonna like it. if you put some effort into it and really try and make it believable then it will be enjoyable.

so far i have yet to come across a dub i have liked more than the original. so far they have all been campy, childish, poorly acted, or poorly cast.

the only dub i've ever halfway thought was decent was the samurai champloo ones and even then it only really thought that jin character was done well. fuu was done in a way that made her annoying (which she was in the original but she was annoying because of her age and tendency to whine) because she sounded childish to me. and mugen.... not rough and wild enough by half.

english VA might get more respect in the english anime world if they didnt do such a poor job overall of translating the feel of the characters over to english, imo.

[Royal_Devil]

Poptart, most of what I'm saying is actually a repeat from someone else. In fact, now that I look back I've got a few parts wrong so I apologize for those.

And I can't help but wonder if you also have any criticisms for these seiyuu since you claim to not view them as perfect. Why not besides "nothings perfect?" It just doesn't sit well with me when someone never mentions any bad points but doesn't claim perfection.

However....

there are conventions dedicated to voice actors where hundreds or thousands of people show up and treat them like rock stars... never knew that...

whats it callled?

And there are hundreds, sometimes thousands, of people at anime conventions and many of them crowd all over the VA panels. Your point?

is the only way you will accept that they are respected is that if a non-otaku acknowledges them.... i remember watching a tv show with Hyde on it and he mentions being moved by seeing the seiyuu that voiced Doraemon on the same plane as him. that he was excited cause he really likes her.

Look back at my posts. I once said that seiyuus for the classics are the exception. They make the most money and are the most respected in the industry. Doraemon's seiyuus are among them.

and otaku and children do not make up the most of anime's audiences as that would not be enough to sustain an ever flourishing business. their is a wide range of anime that all sorts of people watch so i think thats a bit of conjecture on your part.

That's surprisingly the case, actually.

A number of kj1980's posts here indicate otherwise. (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=28856)While some of what you say is true there's also some glaring faults. Throughout the thread he repeatidly brings up how those otakus shelling out for all their favorite shows are a vital contributer and much of the industry could not function without them.

Yes, anime is very diverse and there will always be exceptions. But they are few. As kj1980 says:

The truth of the matter is however, most people will likely stick to shows like watching live concerts, dubbed foreign language dramas (FOX's "24" is very popular here in Japan), etc. etc.

Simply put: Most teens in your country sticks to watching MTV. Similar thing here in Japan. Dad comes home from work, he's not going to watch anime. He wants to see K-1 fighting, Suzuki Ichiro playing for the Seattle Mariners, or soccer. Mom watches TV between household chores, she's going to watch cooking channels. Kid comes home from school, he/she wants to be "in with the times" so he/she watches channels dedicated to music and latest fashion trends.

Anime is for kids. That is the reality of how it is viewed - even in Japan. Yes, it is quite shocking for you guys, but that is the reality. While we do have anime only channels like bayoab has said, it's practically the same in America - people who view them are otakus. Practically you too are saying that when you say, "hey I love to watch Cartoon Network." Wow, I can sense the geekiness coming out from you. Same with me. Unless you are an avid fan of the original story who eagerly wants to watch the show by actually paying for it, no one is going to watch it.

If dad is bringing home the money to pay for the satellite service, he'll watch something more "normal." Kick-ass exhibition fighting matches, heart-pounding live action foreign dramas, or see our national hero hitting runs in MLB.

But like I said, animes are shown on local UHF stations late at night, or in satellite subscription service. As you said, it caters to grow that market. That's why you see otakus shelling out cash with over 50 anime shows airing next season. Who is going to watch them? Otakus. That's who it is catered for, and because of BS and CS channels, that is why anime shows ballooned to the bubble that we are seeing today.

if you put out a low quality product i'm not gonna like it. if you put some effort into it and really try and make it believable then it will be enjoyable.

The thing is, they are trying. Like I said, dubbing's the most difficult form of voice acting there is. Doesn't help that the industry is struggling in a number of places these days. Really, most of your complaints can be summed up as "I think Japanese sounds better than English." Since once again, most of them are just the nature of the languages. English is naturally more monotone and less expressive than Japanese. You just seem to have made yourself impossible to please.

so far i have yet to come across a dub i have liked more than the original. so far they have all been campy, childish, poorly acted, or poorly cast.


May I inquire if some of the ones listed in this thread are among them (FMP, Black Lagoon, Desert Punk, Heat Guy J, Princess Tutu, Speed Grapher, Vampire Hunter D, Big O, Golden Boy)? (note: one of those is a trick question)

english VA might get more respect in the english anime world if they didnt do such a poor job overall of translating the feel of the characters over to english, imo.

If the hundreds of screams at every convention I've been to were any indications., they get plenty of respect. But they also get plenty of disrespect. But then again, so does everyone in the entertainment industry.

[Mitsuomi1971]

lmao...what were we talking about again?

oh yeah lol...I think the english voice of Ichigo is pretty good myself...I watched a behind the scenes thing with him and he truly shows passion for the role...I feel this way...a persons acting is only as good as his/her passion for the part

[poptart]

Poptart, most of what I'm saying is actually a repeat from someone else. In fact, now that I look back I've got a few parts wrong so I apologize for those.

And I can't help but wonder if you also have any criticisms for these seiyuu since you claim to not view them as perfect. Why not besides "nothings perfect?" It just doesn't sit well with me when someone never mentions any bad points but doesn't claim perfection.

not mentioning the flaws does not imply perfection. what it does however mean is that i dont mind the flaws that are there. engrish doesnt bother me the same way that poorly pronounced japanese names dont particularly bother me. as its not either of their native languages i dont expect it to be good.

most of the problems i have related to seiyuu deals with the them casting the wrong voice in my opinion. but over time i usually get over it as it. like i really wished that Minagawa Junko could have voiced Allen Walker, but as time went on i grew to like Kobayashi Sanae or even growing to love Kugimiya Rie as Miharu.

see the difference. they both put out a good performance in my opinion so i was able to still enjoy it overall.


And there are hundreds, sometimes thousands, of people at anime conventions and many of them crowd all over the VA panels. Your point?

i didnt mean anime events... i meant a seiyuu (VA) event.


Look back at my posts. I once said that seiyuus for the classics are the exception. They make the most money and are the most respected in the industry. Doraemon's seiyuus are among them.


again the qualifier. i still dont get why there are all these qualifiers to the aspect of respect. i cant remember exactly who it was but an actor... maybe it was an idol... gaaahhh she had long hair and was quite funny... made a reference to hirano aya as liking her style and then mimicked her from Haruhi... its gonna drive me crazy until i remember D:



That's surprisingly the case, actually.

A number of kj1980's posts here indicate otherwise. (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=28856)While some of what you say is true there's also some glaring faults. Throughout the thread he repeatidly brings up how those otakus shelling out for all their favorite shows are a vital contributer and much of the industry could not function without them.

Yes, anime is very diverse and there will always be exceptions. But they are few. As kj1980 says:

who is kj1980?



The thing is, they are trying. Like I said, dubbing's the most difficult form of voice acting there is. Doesn't help that the industry is struggling in a number of places these days. Really, most of your complaints can be summed up as "I think Japanese sounds better than English." Since once again, most of them are just the nature of the languages. English is naturally more monotone and less expressive than Japanese. You just seem to have made yourself impossible to please.

english in no way monotone. every language has its own flavor that can be brought to light by good acting and skill. if they had a better understanding of the characters the bleach dubs probably wouldnt blow as hard as they do for me.

there are a number of ways to give the same levels of inflections rukia did when switching between her rough talking to ichigo and renji speak, extremely respectful speech when speaking to her brother and superiors, her hilarious attempts at speaking "modern day girly", etc.

renji sounded like jerk the first time he showed up... which actually fit with his character... however he never really changed up after you got to see he is a bit of a softy, espc for rukia.

yes, ishida sounds bored most of the time, but his VA never really had that controlling anal retentive goofball feel that ishida. so there was never really a big change up between his normal moments and his "badass" moments enough to make a difference.... he just always sounds like some aloof loner.

chad sounds mentally slow most times.... instead of the dude that is to lazy to actually vocalize his thoughts.

ichigo is just.... no

gin sounds like some proper snake like bastard... which would sort of fit his character but gin is supposed to be rough around the edges and nonchalant with a bit of skeaz to freak you out. thats part of the reason most would either not take him seriously or be put off by him.

byakuya makes my ears cry....

all of this stems from them not really understanding how their characters are and the culture surround their creation enough to be able to translate it to an english equivalent.

it doesnt have to be a direct translation where they are just mocking the seiyuu, but them taking in the information and really understanding the subtleties of the characters and how they relate to each other. then processing that and finding the english version of these things.

how do we speak when talking to somebody we deeply respect and yet are afraid of? how do we speak when we feel as if we are too far away from somebody in status?

pulling in real life material of the girl in class that was in love with the boy that didnt even know she exsisted? how does she act? what were the inflections in her voice that clued you in? bringing things like that to characters is whats missing in their performance to me. its all one note or extremes.


May I inquire if some of the ones listed in this thread are among them (FMP, Black Lagoon, Desert Punk, Heat Guy J, Princess Tutu, Speed Grapher, Vampire Hunter D, Big O, Golden Boy)? (note: one of those is a trick question)

i didnt like any of those titles so no i've never listened nor watched them other than Black Lagoon and i love Namikawa Daisuke, and Black Lagoon, enough to not wish to listen to the english even if i could... which i havent... didnt even know it came in english as i never even checked for it *shrugs*


If the hundreds of screams at every convention I've been to were any indications., they get plenty of respect. But they also get plenty of disrespect. But then again, so does everyone in the entertainment industry.

you cant say that the only people that respect seiyuu are otakus and not apply that same logic to VA. by your qualifier until some non "otaku" comes in and says a VA not from Disney or a classic cartoon/anime is great or respectable then non of that screaming counts...

and to further that point i didnt say they didnt get any respect.... i said they'd get more respect. meaning if you put up a quality product then middle ground people wouldnt have anything to complain about and all thats left are just "haters" and "purists".

[DjTrizz]

in spirit of VA's...I think I dislike Chris Sabat the most

[BleachOD]

If I don't reply then that means it doesn't matter anymore. I've had a whole day to get over it. It clearly wasn't you so why does it have to come up?I told you I got someone by accident. I thought it might have been you



Do you really want this to turn into a debate about how many black people we've met or at least have heard? You don't have to be black to get to know what a number of black people of multiple nationalities and background sound like in conversation. For example, the black people in Britain I had many conversations with sounded nothing like American ones. Still, Tousen's seiyuu, sounds like nothing I've heard from any of them. Yo son you bugging! You were the one who brought "Black sounds" it into the debate. You mentioned it regarding Dutch's dubbing and I agreed. The actor is passable as black man. Obviously you haven't heard enough.

This is one I am just going to let go. since I am going to believe I am a better judge than you...






See for yourself then. Though I say don't bother if you go in with the mentality that it will always suck
I don't go in with any mentality. It just so happens that most I see do suck. So I prefer subs. If I find one and the acting is tolerable. I will watch it if I have no choice.





To put it simply, they may not translate the jokes accurately but it's still funnier unless you think everything has to be exactly like the Japanese version and that the Japanese version is always perfect. The original is usually the best. I like funny to be funny. Hell yeah I expect it to be exactly like the Japanese version;It's a dub. if things are added that weren't there before... then you call it a REMAKE! That kills me when people say that...:uhoh:



The way you said it made it sound like you were saying they're treated a lot better than voice actors are here, which I disagree with.

They are. What country are you from? In America if you go from film to voice. It means you "Fell off" slang for you are nothing...

I want to know why you are under the impression that VA is so widely respected and it's not.:eyebrow:




It was a request, not an order because Disney should have no relevance in this discussion. Because dubbing something in any language and voicing a Disney movie are like day in night when you compare the processes. You can't compare a role tailor made to fit the voice actor to one that requires the voice actor to do all the work with none of the help the Disney process provides.

Tailor made or not. If the actor is a shitty actor then it's doesn't mean shit. Some actors are better at it then others. I stand by my statement. It's the only time you get quality acting


Dub actors have a lot more going against them, If you know that, then why do you keep contradicting yourself and saying otherwise?:eyebrow:




How the hell are those three has-beens. They're voices and their performances never get old. And since you do so much research you'd know how much of a nerd Hamil is when it comes to comics and voicing them. Look, if you truly believe this then I just give up. If no English actors not in a Disney can be as good as Japanese actors in anything then this discussion is pointless. I'll admit, I don't like when someone puts down an entire culture's works like that.

Um that's what I mean. :uhoh:They continue to do VA instead of film. Erick Estrada was popular star in his day. A sex symbol. He's now reduced to voices.

Mark Hamil was "Luke Skywalker" now he's a nobody that voices cartoons
That's the lowest you get in acting unless it's a BIG PRODUCTION LIKE DISNEY OR PIXAR!

They are voice actors because they can't be anything else.



I've always believed everything has its good and its bad and that no one way is better than the other. I take it you don't share the sentiment? No; I don't.
I like only the best:heh:




Because BL is a show that needs profanity maybe? Because the BL universe requires it in spades? I disagree...it needs gunfire.




This entire thread you've practically jumped at the opportunity to criticize English actors everytime they've pronounced a Japanese word wrong yet don't seem to do the same when Japanese do the same to English.

Where was I when you heard me not criticize that Japanese person who couldn't speak English? :uhoh:It hasn't happened yet so how are you going to tell me I wouldn't do the same?

That still doesn't negate the fact that the mispronunciations annoy me. It's not the same thing. With the Japanese L sounds like R and the reverse. They can't help but say Engrish. With some practice they can. same thing goes for them...

You've also said the mispronouncing Japanese words have ruined dubs for you. I was simply countering with an example of the opposite happening to me.
No I said it annoys me. The shitty acting ruins it...:rolleyes:


Same goes for overacting. that's the biggest problem seiyuus have yet you only call dub actors on it. I said some English VA's overact and that ruins it for me. The thread is about English VA's not seiyuus.


I'm talking about shows originally done in English. Like a Japanese dub of a Disney movie. Comparing that to Inuyasha doesn't make any senseNo shit.:uhoh:

I said probably not. Unless it's like what happened with Inuyasha. I saw it in English FIRST and then saw it Japanese and preferred it. If I saw a show that was originally in English and if it was funnier and the acting was better than I might. it hasn't happened so I really can't say. What part of that couldn't you understand the first time? :confused:


I'll ask again: Are there any Japanese performances you actually don't like? Any in Bleach? Any in other anime? Otherwise, I'm seeing nothing but blind bias from you. Sorry "

You don't have to see anything. I said I am SUPER SUB BIASED. It's not like that's a secret. I am also seeing blind bias from you and blatant denial...:uhoh:

You don't even realize those comic-cons are viewed as nerd stuff (That's why you never heard of em pop. ) I get made fun of by "The cool" people every time I go to one
Yeah there are few I do not like. Not many because like I said before. The Japanese get better actors for their animation and they don't have to pick from the best of the "Has-beens" like you do with dubs.

You like dubs and that's fine. But do not try and make it this glamorous profession outside of Japan. It is not. If Jennifer Aniston starting doing voice only. No one would see it as a step up. No she would be pitied and looked down upon.

Most English are failures or hasbeens. you might not like it but it's a fact.

Most of them can't act at all...

You are right there is no point in this conversation if you are gonna blanket everyone's criticisms and put your own spin on it.

[Kakashi]

English kids don't watch anime, they watch cartoons. English adolescents and adults don't watch anime because they think they are cartoons. Until that misconseption changes we won't be seeing quality English dubs, though on rare ocassion it can be done. Death Note for example.

Also Japanese voice actors are stars in Japan. Whereas English voice actors are percieved differently, unless they're starring in Disney or Pixar films. There are English voice actors just as capable or more capable than their Japanese counterparts, they just haven't found their way to anime.

[DjTrizz]

agree to disagree :p

this is my personal opinion

I believe some of the better dubbing was in the old days before anime became such a huge hit in the states. I prefer'd the Gundam Wing dub over the sub, hell, I liked Dragonball Z a lot more when Pioneer had it, even though it was just the movies and I started out on the series by watching it unsubbed/dubbed on the International Channel.

[BleachOD]

English kids don't watch anime, they watch cartoons. English adolescents and adults don't watch anime because they think they are cartoons. Until that misconseption changes we won't be seeing quality English dubs, though on rare ocassion it can be done. Death Note for example.

Also Japanese voice actors are stars in Japan. Whereas English voice actors are percieved differently, unless they're starring in Disney or Pixar films. There are English voice actors just as capable or more capable than their Japanese counterparts, they just haven't found their way to anime.

That was beautifully done.:rolleyes: I am jealous I didn't think of it first:heh:

Devil...this is what Pop, and I are trying to tell you...

That's the attitude I get from my family. All except my boyfriend don't understand why I purchased site 2 months ago instead of just running it.

[DjTrizz]

I think that's the general attitude of most people from the last(?) couple generations? sorry, not sure how generations are defined by years :p but I'm thinking along the lines of my parents who were born in the 50's.

[Mitsuomi1971]

DjTrizz if you preferred Pioneers versions of DBZ over Funi...wow...lol...I hated Pioneers versions...but truth be told they screwed up DBZ all the way around until they started releasing uncut

[Royal_Devil]

not mentioning the flaws does not imply perfection. what it does however mean is that i dont mind the flaws that are there. engrish doesnt bother me the same way that poorly pronounced japanese names dont
particularly bother me. as its not either of their native languages i dont expect it to be good.

So your bias gives seiyuus a handicap? Well, at least we agree on pronouncing things.

again the qualifier. i still dont get why there are all these qualifiers to the aspect of respect. i cant remember exactly who it was but an actor... maybe it was an idol... gaaahhh she had long hair and was quite funny... made a reference to hirano aya as liking her style and then mimicked her from Haruhi... its gonna drive me crazy until i remember D:

Remember then. But that's only one example. And just because a celebrity mentions a seiyuu as inspiration it suddenly makes them a better group of people? What about how besides the comics they also examined Hamill's Joker when figuring out how to do him in TDK? Going by what you're saying they wouldn't give an animated performance a second glance.


who is kj1980?

A Japanese native who knew a lot about what goes on in the industry. I would recommend you read that thread. Has some nice tidbits about the industry.

gin sounds like some proper snake like bastard... which would sort of fit his character but gin is supposed to be rough around the edges and nonchalant with a bit of skeaz to freak you out. thats part of the reason most would either not take him seriously or be put off by him.

Still, a southern accent will not work. There's nothing Gin-ish about it. Maybe you have an accent in mind that would fit.

you cant say that the only people that respect seiyuu are otakus and not apply that same logic to VA. by your qualifier until some non "otaku" comes in and says a VA not from Disney or a classic cartoon/anime is great or respectable then non of that screaming counts...

I never said that. Tell me where I said American VAs were more respected. I've just been saying in grand scheme of things seiyuu really aren't either outside of fans of their cartoons/music or people in the industry with a few odd exceptions outside that.

OD

I told you I got someone by accident. I thought it might have been you

Well, obviously it wasn't so don't worry about it. And even if it was, you obviously regret it so I'd have no reason to be mad anymore.

Yo son you bugging! You were the one who brought "Black sounds" it into the debate. You mentioned it regarding Dutch's dubbing and I agreed. The actor is passable as black man. Obviously you haven't heard enough.

This is one I am just going to let go. since I am going to believe I am a better judge than you...

Because you're black your a better judge of what "black" sounds like? Tousen just sounds like a deep Japanese man. Dutch sounds black in the dub because...well he's voice by an actual black man. There's plenty of minority characters in dubs that don't sound right because they're clearly voiced by white guys. I don't know why Tousen not sounding black in Japanese is a bad thing to you. I think it would be nice if that wasn't the case but I would hardly say it bothers since he plays the role well without having to sound black. I just view a black actor in the dub as a bonus just like I view the British actors in Hellsing's dub as a bonus.


They are voice actors because they can't be anything else.


These voice actors do plenty of other things since voice acting doesn't pay the bills. Some do jobs as directors for smaller projects. Like you said, for some VAing is a side job. Some of them are also writers with published material out. Some of them even have bands. There's all kinds of jobs they have to do, some in the entertainment industry some outside.

And of course there are actors that voice cartoon characters while still having successful careers.

And here's another thing we seem to disagree on. You seem to believe that just because they aren't Hollywood level, the world views them has-beens with no talent left. You also seem to view not doing Hollywood movies anymore as a bad thing. Being in Hollywood movies is as much about connections as it is about talent, maybe even more so.

Going by what you've said, people would view actors like Keanu Reeves as better than Hamill since Reeves is still doing big movies. All I hear from most though is "how is he still in these movies?" It's because he's got connections not because he's got talent. Everybody loves Hamill's version of the Joker, many consider it better than his Star Wars role. There's plenty of trash actors in Hollywood that nobody likes but somehow manage to keep coming back into film. It's not because they're good, it's because they have people that can keep them in.

So I don't view being a voice actor as necessarily a bad thing. They don't have the prestige Hollywood offers but then again gaining that prestige doesn't necessarily make you a better actor. More often than not it makes you a better businessman who knows how to make the right friends.

You're right, Hamill hasn't been in any big movie recently. But I've seen him in a number of independent movies (which would also be the place of has-beens by your definition). Of course, there's plenty to like about the indie industry over Hollywood so I don't see what's wrong with that.

Maybe you didn't mean that being a voice actor and not in Hollywood means you have no talent in live action anymore and if so then what I just said doesn't apply.

I don't go in with any mentality. It just so happens that most I see do suck. So I prefer subs. If I find one and the acting is tolerable. I will watch it if I have no choice.

Saying subs are always better than dubs is basically going in with that mentality. I don't know why you're trying to deny it.


The original is usually the best. I like funny to be funny. Hell yeah I expect it to be exactly like the Japanese version;It's a dub. if things are added that weren't there before... then you call it a REMAKE! That kills me when people say that...

I would hardly say changing a few jokes like in DP is a remake. Make no mistake, it's the same show just with more crude jokes, pottier language, and the fact they sound like they're speaking from helmets (voice filters that create that slightly muffled, echo sound you hear when someone has a helmet on, which was a nice touch of detail if you ask me).

Now the Ghost Stories dub is a remake but it's a remake that's more fun to watch than the tired, boring, and unremarkable work it was in Japan. Because there's really only so much you can do when the anime already sucks

They are. What country are you from? In America if you go from film to voice. It means you "Fell off" slang for you are nothing...

I want to know why you are under the impression that VA is so widely respected and it's not.

Again, I never said they were widely respected. I just said the respect seiyuu in comparison is not day and night like you claim. More like day and sundown.

I disagree...it needs gunfire.

Why does it need gunfire when all the gunfire is already there? I said all the foul language makes it even better since not having it spades doesn't make any sense in a show like that. It adds something I felt was missing with the lack of "fakku" in the Japanese version.

Where was I when you heard me not criticize that Japanese person who couldn't speak English? It hasn't happened yet so how are you going to tell me I wouldn't do the same?

Wait, so you actually liked Revy's awful monologues in English?


That still doesn't negate the fact that the mispronunciations annoy me. It's not the same thing. With the Japanese L sounds like R and the reverse. They can't help but say Engrish. With some practice they can. same thing goes for them...

Then we agree that both sides have to get it down correctly before they use it. There are some levels of Engrish I do tolerate of course that also means I can also accept some mispronouncing on the other side of things too.

You don't have to see anything. I said I am SUPER SUB BIASED. It's not like that's a secret. I am also seeing blind bias from you and blatant denial...

What blind bias? I'll admit there's plenty of bad acting in dubbing. I'm a firm believing that 90% of everything in entertainment is crap. By that extension I also believe 90% of anime is crap and 90% of performances in any language are crap. And nothing I've seen has really changed that opinion.

Just so you know, as far as dubs go I only rank the Bleach dub in the 5% I call, watchable.

You don't even realize those comic-cons are viewed as nerd stuff (That's why you never heard of em pop. ) I get made fun of by "The cool" people every time I go to one

There will always be some of that but I disagree. Geek culture is becoming more and more main stream. We've had 6 comic book movies this summer, one of which is now #2 only to Titanic. I've heard plenty of reports in blogs and such of how people are noticing a greater diversity of people coming to these conventions, both comic and anime conventions. These movies are making people curious and now they're discovering what they've been missing.

You like dubs and that's fine. But do not try and make it this glamorous profession outside of Japan. It is not. If Jennifer Aniston starting doing voice only. No one would see it as a step up. No she would be pitied and looked down upon.


Where did I ever say it was glamorous? I've just been arguing the life of a seiyuu is hardly much more glamorous.

Kakashi:

English kids don't watch anime, they watch cartoons. English adolescents and adults don't watch anime because they think they are cartoons. Until that misconseption changes we won't be seeing quality English dubs, though on rare ocassion it can be done. Death Note for example.

I take it you did not read kj's post in that thread I linked or looked into the spoiler? After his testimony and that of another native Japanese in that thread I would hardly say it sounds all that different from here. I won't put it in spoiler tags this time so you don't miss it

Anime is for kids. That is the reality of how it is viewed - even in Japan. Yes, it is quite shocking for you guys, but that is the reality. While we do have anime only channels like bayoab has said, it's practically the same in America - people who view them are otakus. Practically you too are saying that when you say, "hey I love to watch Cartoon Network." Wow, I can sense the geekiness coming out from you. Same with me. Unless you are an avid fan of the original story who eagerly wants to watch the show by actually paying for it, no one is going to watch it. (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=497903&postcount=78)


Also Japanese voice actors are stars in Japan. Whereas English voice actors are percieved differently, unless they're starring in Disney or Pixar films. There are English voice actors just as capable or more capable than their Japanese counterparts, they just haven't found their way to anime.

I'll say it one more time. I agree voice actors aren't respected by the general public in the states however the same is also mostly true for seiyuus. In both cases, the driving force for their careers are geeks. Their the ones that follow these people's careers and everything they do. It's geek culture that loves them and their rolls most, much like it is here. You've all been making them sound like they're the equivalent of Hollywood actors in Japan, which the aren't in most cases.

To put it simply, all everyone has shown is that there are more geeks in Japan. But that's still a minority in Japan. Just like it's a minority here.

DjTrizz if you preferred Pioneers versions of DBZ over Funi...wow...lol...I hated Pioneers versions...but truth be told they screwed up DBZ all the way around until they started releasing uncut

Pioneer never released DBZ uncut. Funimation is the one releasing the uncut version.

[Nervous Venus]

english has way more different accents

Actually, Japan has more dialects varying from region to region than the US.
And even if your statement is true, I doubt most accents would be useful in the industry anyway.

And there are hundreds, sometimes thousands, of people at anime conventions and many of them crowd all over the VA panels. Your point?

Just take a gander at Yui Horie's appearance (on any show, recently on Hey Hey Hey Music Champ since she made the Oricon Chart) and you would be mind-feffed. It's nothing like the treatment US VA's get here.

Not to mention they have the adoration of the Drama CD / manga fans. Most seiyuu's I loved, I learned of through Drama CD's. Their voice acting can survive even without moving pictures to distract me. I can't really say the same for English VA's.

However, this isn't coming from pure bias. There are certain seiyuu's I will never like. I need to draw up a list.

[DjTrizz]

DjTrizz if you preferred Pioneers versions of DBZ over Funi...wow...lol...I hated Pioneers versions...but truth be told they screwed up DBZ all the way around until they started releasing uncut

everyone has their preference, I liked their VAs better, I was diggin Piccolo's voice (also who's Koga from InuYasha) and Vegeta, I really didn't like FUNi's remake of the Saiyan Saga. If I could find 2 corresponding clips, I would do a side by side.

Example...

Vegeta's "It's OVER 9000!!!!" I liked the old version better than the new FUNi version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMHTK15Pik - original
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ImuoLpwTag&feature=related - FUNi remake

though I can respect FUNi for including the original footage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTgEATHHe6w&NR=1 - Princess Snake Suicide Game clip

though I'm still disappointed how poorly they handled DBZ (not even to mention GT) for the most part, but then imo do great w/ other projects, like Fullmetal Alchemist

[Royal_Devil]

Not to mention they have the adoration of the Drama CD / manga fans. Most seiyuu's I loved, I learned of through Drama CD's. Their voice acting can survive even without moving pictures to distract me. I can't really say the same for English VA's.

Thing thing is, the closest thing we have to that are audio clips voice actors have for their portfolio and most of those are taken from their performances for the shows they voice. But it would be interesting to see such CDs in the States.

everyone has their preference, I liked their VAs better, I was diggin Piccolo's voice (also who's Koga from InuYasha) and Vegeta

Same here. However Funi had better music and a better Trunks and Android 17 (two of my favorite characters) not to mention an actual uncut version. Pioneer has some good actors like Scott McNeil (Who would be my my pick for either Renji or Grimmjow) and Brian Drummard (or something like that) but constant edits and crappier music.

[BleachOD]

everyone has their preference, I liked their VAs better, I was diggin Piccolo's voice (also who's Koga from InuYasha) and Vegeta, I really I agree. I am only telling you why I prefer subs. In no way am I saying your choices are poor. I am not. It's in my opinion subs are superior. I would love to watch them English if I could get the same feeling out them I get with subs but I can't. The quality of the acting is not the same. I argue with my boyfriend because he doesn't care. So he's clueless when I get mad if he doesn't make sure it's subs. He doesn't see the big deal. I turn it loud and insist people be quiet. He's like why do you need sound you can read it? :upset: For that I could choke him. He doesn't appreciate the talent a person has to have to express, joy, pain, love and admiration with just their voices. Like pop said the inflection in them is vastly different from English VA's . I want to be able to turn my head from time to time without rewinding because I don't know what's going. Yeah I could watch dubs but you should be able to tell by my grandiose behavior. I don't half-step. I want it to be right. I am not going to sell myself short and be denied great acting just because it's convenient in English.

@DevilNo time nor the sense to respond. I have been up for couple days. ...but yeah. I am saying that because I am black. :uhoh:I am a better judge than you when it comes to that kind of thing. Don't bother arguing with me. You will never get me to change that statement. I don't care if it sounds ignorant. It's the truth. Some stereotypes are not really stereotypes. They became one because there is a grain of truth to them...:uhoh:

[DjTrizz]

yeah, I'd want to pop your boyfriend upside his head too, there's a difference between reading your standard book, then reading subtitles of something animated w/ voice overs and what have you in the background.

[poptart]

Actually, Japan has more dialects varying from region to region than the US.
And even if your statement is true, I doubt most accents would be useful in the industry anyway.


i'm sorry i should have been more clear in my meaning.

i meant that from the available accents to denote ethinicity or "social status", etc there are way more to choose from then the common british, southern, high pitched girly that is used in my opinion.

heck i can always tell if someone is from chicago by the way that they say certain words. or tell what coast or region they are from by if they say pop, soda, or coke (to refer to all soft drinks). in the south alone there are different accents, twangs, drawls for just about every state.

my point was that english is in no way monotone and that the right actor can bring the same level of excitement, cultural references, and social implications with english if done with skill.

that is why is see no reason why the quality of acting in the english dubs shouldnt be on the same level as the original, imo

So your bias gives seiyuus a handicap? Well, at least we agree on pronouncing things.

huh :confused: what handicap? and what bais?

please explain what you mean here as i want to respond but i'm unsure of what you mean


Remember then. But that's only one example. And just because a celebrity mentions a seiyuu as inspiration it suddenly makes them a better group of people? What about how besides the comics they also examined Hamill's Joker when figuring out how to do him in TDK? Going by what you're saying they wouldn't give an animated performance a second glance.

i used celebrities comments on television shows as these are documented statements, you could actually search for them... plus its what i remembered at the time. i could pull anything out of my ass and say that 9 out 10 people i asked said that seiyuu are gifts from god i just used a non "otaku" documented example.

again no need to add things to my comments. nor do i really need to search and catalog every time a seiyuu is mentioned to get across the point that people outside of "otaku" and children know and respect seiyuu. this isnt a school paper. unlike your Miyazaki example i wasnt using it as a blanket for the general feeling of all people.

if you want another non celebrity, example there are many manga writers who know and respect seiyuu and ofter create characters with them in mind. they even have favorites that if a chance for a drama cd comes up, they will hope for that seiyuu to be cast. many will stick with the same seiyuu across their different series.

there was a little afterword in a manga i read once, talking about how she went down to see how the drama cd was being made and had a little fangirl moment over one of the actors. but i guess that one would count because... maybe she is an otaku... or that she is "in the business"... i dont know...

i dont watch cartoons... other than when i was a kid *X-men for the win!* hated spiderman and never really watched batman (though i used to love the old live action versions... still do actually :D)... so i really cant say i know much about it... thats cool if they checked out Hamil... dont know who he is though but he must have done a great job...

how that has anything to do with dubbers... i dont know.


A Japanese native who knew a lot about what goes on in the industry. I would recommend you read that thread. Has some nice tidbits about the industry.

oh... i thought he had done some type of study or something...

cool. nice to read another persons viewpoint on it. still multiple studios could not survive off of such a niche market. as yes otaku will shell out and parents might by their kids things to watch, but i still find it hard to believe that the fate of the anime world rest solely on the otaku and children :uhoh:

Still, a southern accent will not work. There's nothing Gin-ish about it. Maybe you have an accent in mind that would fit.

i didnt suggest it but there are tons of southern accents to choose from...

the best i can think of would be a new orleans drawl. not the deep country one but the city french quarters drawl. it has the same low, drawn out vowels, seedy feel to it....



I never said that. Tell me where I said American VAs were more respected. I've just been saying in grand scheme of things seiyuu really aren't either outside of fans of their cartoons/music or people in the industry with a few odd exceptions outside that.

thats not what i said.

i was asking why you didnt apply the same qualifier to that comment.

if fans at a convention in japan are nothing more than "otakus" who's adoration discounts as a qualification for them being considered as "respected in japan". then fans at convention other places would also be counted as a measure of them beings regarded as "respected".

i know what you've been saying... its just that i believe that you are wrong and the logic is a bit faulty as a seiyuu's main job is to be the voice for an animated character either in an anime, drama cd, movie what have you. so by default if you enjoy the work of a seiyuu you would indeed have to at point in time be a fan of animated media or part of that culture. its not like VA's who were at one point a film, tv, whatever personality originally

[Thewanderer]

Wow, I feel the love in this thread! =D

It's really just about personal preference. It's really just how we enjoy the same animes, so we're all really on the same side here.

Personally, it don't matter to me. I watch dubs I catch on TV, and I get my hands on the subs when I'm not too lazy. I'm not a critic though, so lots of other people couldn't stand to do this, and I respect that. Whatever floats your boat, I always say =D

[Royal_Devil]

Some stereotypes are not really stereotypes. They became one because there is a grain of truth to them...

Who's stereotyping? I compared him to all the blacks I've heard and he doesn't match any of them. He sounds like any other deep voiced Japanese performance. And that's not a bad thing.

So what would you say if I said I thought Chad doesn't sound Hispanic since I am one myself?


huh :confused: what handicap? and what bais?

please explain what you mean here as i want to respond but i'm unsure of what you mean

what it does however mean is that i dont mind the flaws that are there.

I got that you don't mind the flaws of seiyuus but have shown no hesitation with the flaws of English actors.

if you want another non celebrity, example there are many manga writers who know and respect seiyuu and ofter create characters with them in mind. they even have favorites that if a chance for a drama cd comes up, they will hope for that seiyuu to be cast. many will stick with the same seiyuu across their different series.

I agree. I said that people in the industry and otakus remember?

thats cool if they checked out Hamil... dont know who he is though but he must have done a great job...

You've never heard of Luck Skywalker? As for the Joker (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb8fWUUXeKM)

how that has anything to do with dubbers... i dont know.

Hamills dubbed anime too.

cool. nice to read another persons viewpoint on it. still multiple studios could not survive off of such a niche market. as yes otaku will shell out and parents might by their kids things to watch, but i still find it hard to believe that the fate of the anime world rest solely on the otaku and children :uhoh:


There are many things in the world that will you surprise you in that way. This is one of them. Who else would watch all these series airing later at night/early in the morning?

the best i can think of would be a new orleans drawl. not the deep country one but the city french quarters drawl. it has the same low, drawn out vowels, seedy feel to it....

Still missing something.


if fans at a convention in japan are nothing more than "otakus" who's adoration discounts as a qualification for them being considered as "respected in japan". then fans at convention other places would also be counted as a measure of them beings regarded as "respected".

I never discounted their adoration. But it's no different here. Adoration for voice actors in America is made up of geek culture too.

so by default if you enjoy the work of a seiyuu you would indeed have to at point in time be a fan of animated media or part of that culture. its not like VA's who were at one point a film, tv, whatever personality originally

Not necessarily. It's quite easy to remain ignorant of other stuff your favorite celebrity has done. kj gave an example of some girls he heard talking about a singer they liked. When it was brought up she'd sung it for an anime series they had no clue about what series they were talking about?

[DjTrizz]

I couldn't help but laugh too w/ all that Joker-ness XD

as for those who aren't familiar w/ Mark Hamill, which even though I'm not a Star Wars geek by any means...sorta surprises me somehow...

animation/anime stuff he's done..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Hamill#Anime

[poptart]

I got that you don't mind the flaws of seiyuus but have shown no hesitation with the flaws of English actors.

hmm... i see you got that from not being able to properly read the full sentence... i'll post it again and bold the part you seem to have missed. which was most of it

not mentioning the flaws does not imply perfection. what it does however mean is that i dont mind the flaws that are there. engrish doesnt bother me the same way that poorly pronounced japanese names dont particularly bother me. as its not either of their native languages i dont expect it to be good.

most of the problems i have related to seiyuu deals with the them casting the wrong voice in my opinion. but over time i usually get over it as it. like i really wished that Minagawa Junko could have voiced Allen Walker, but as time went on i grew to like Kobayashi Sanae or even growing to love Kugimiya Rie as Miharu.

see the difference. they both put out a good performance in my opinion so i was able to still enjoy it overall.

meaning there are flaws but they are not flaws big enough to impede me enjoying the show. i even gave a problem that i have with with two particular shows and the reason why it doesnt bother me to further illustrate my point.

there is no bias. there is however a level of quality and performance i want to get from my watching experience that has yet to be met by the VAs. thus my problem with them.


I agree. I said that people in the industry and otakus remember?

mangakas and seiyuu are in the same industry. if thats true then both your Miyazaki and Hamil/TDK example holds no grounds as both of them are in the same industry. see how that works...


You've never heard of Luck Skywalker? As for the Joker (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lb8fWUUXeKM)

oh... thats who that is... *shrugs* cool... never knew his name

Hamills dubbed anime too.

cool... but your refrence had nill to do with dubbers... it had to do with the joker which is an american cartoon. apple meet orange :rolleyes:


There are many things in the world that will you surprise you in that way. This is one of them. Who else would watch all these series airing later at night/early in the morning?

children? :D

again it just doesnt fly. to some extent it holds water because truthfully these are valued customers... however no business that racks in such high revenues would be able to do so with just these two as the main contributers to its gains. that just doesnt make sense. sorry... i just dont agree at all that to me just doesnt make any logical business sense.

every business that large needs to appeal to the masses unless you are catering to a niche market... there are genres of anime that will only target those markets like the late night shows, hentai, yaoi, yuri etc. but for the most part those shows have a mass appeal to them. i am in no way denying that your average adult probably isnt rushing home from work to catch bleach but i also think that there are a large number of people outside of the "otaku" group and above the children group that enjoy it as well for it to do as well as it has.

Not necessarily. It's quite easy to remain ignorant of other stuff your favorite celebrity has done. kj gave an example of some girls he heard talking about a singer they liked. When it was brought up she'd sung it for an anime series they had no clue about what series they were talking about?

that again has nothing to do with being a fan of the seiyuu...

that example would be a person being a fan of the SINGER not the seiyuu. if you never knew that Ono Daisuke was a relatively popular seiyuu because all you know is that you love his music then of course it makes sense :uhoh:

[Royal_Devil]

mangakas and seiyuu are in the same industry. if thats true then both your Miyazaki and Hamil/TDK example holds no grounds as both of them are in the same industry. see how that works...

Please tell me where I indicated otherwise. I've always been comparing their popularity to the general public, not geek culture or industry culture since you seem convinced that seiyuus are Hollywood level in Japan, which they're not.

cool... but your refrence had nill to do with dubbers... it had to do with the joker which is an american cartoon. apple meet orange :rolleyes:


Alright then, his role as the villain in Castle in the Sky.

children? :D

again it just doesnt fly. to some extent it holds water because truthfully these are valued customers... however no business that racks in such high revenues would be able to do so with just these two as the main contributers to its gains. that just doesnt make sense. sorry... i just dont agree at all that to me just doesnt make any logical business sense.

It's been working just fine in Japan. you've got thousands of otakus willing to shell out thousands of dollars each for the shows they like. kj even explains why the have disposable incomes for these things.

Again like kj said:


Simply put: Most teens in your country sticks to watching MTV. Similar thing here in Japan. Dad comes home from work, he's not going to watch anime. He wants to see K-1 fighting, Suzuki Ichiro playing for the Seattle Mariners, or soccer. Mom watches TV between household chores, she's going to watch cooking channels. Kid comes home from school, he/she wants to be "in with the times" so he/she watches channels dedicated to music and latest fashion trends.

Anime is for kids. That is the reality of how it is viewed - even in Japan. Yes, it is quite shocking for you guys, but that is the reality. While we do have anime only channels like bayoab has said, it's practically the same in America - people who view them are otakus. Practically you too are saying that when you say, "hey I love to watch Cartoon Network." Wow, I can sense the geekiness coming out from you. Same with me. Unless you are an avid fan of the original story who eagerly wants to watch the show by actually paying for it, no one is going to watch it.

If dad is bringing home the money to pay for the satellite service, he'll watch something more "normal." Kick-ass exhibition fighting matches, heart-pounding live action foreign dramas, or see our national hero hitting runs in MLB.

But like I said, animes are shown on local UHF stations late at night, or in satellite subscription service. As you said, it caters to grow that market. That's why you see otakus shelling out cash with over 50 anime shows airing next season. Who is going to watch them? Otakus. That's who it is catered for, and because of BS and CS channels, that is why anime shows ballooned to the bubble that we are seeing today.

every business that large needs to appeal to the masses unless you are catering to a niche market... there are genres of anime that will only target those markets like the late night shows, hentai, yaoi, yuri etc. but for the most part those shows have a mass appeal to them. i am in no way denying that your average adult probably isnt rushing home from work to catch bleach but i also think that there are a large number of people outside of the "otaku" group and above the children group that enjoy it as well for it to do as well as it has.

Bleach is shounen, so that's mostly kids the money's coming in for. Majority of anime these days are niche actually.

that again has nothing to do with being a fan of the seiyuu...

that example would be a person being a fan of the SINGER not the seiyuu. if you never knew that Ono Daisuke was a relatively popular seiyuu because all you know is that you love his music then of course it makes sense :uhoh:

okay what was the point about this again? You said if your a fan of them you'll know about their anime stuff. I was giving an example where that wasn't the case.

[poptart]

eating so will sum it up...

first that was a typo and should have been a question mark... as in Seiyuu and Mangaka are in the same industry? as voice actors are not the same as mangaka. the serve two totally different purposes and can function fine without each other. and not once did i say they were hollywood level. the only comparison i made to anything hollywood was that some seiyuu voices are strongly connected to hollywood actors when they voice a majority of their work making them more known in the "mainstream" audience.

which if you consider them to be in the same industry then it makes your earlier comparisons and references with Miyazaki and Hamil of TDK null as those too are from the same industry and not apart of the "general public"

i didnt say it wasnt the case.... i just said that doesnt make much logical sense for "thousands of otakus and children" to be the base of any high gains business without it also having a more mass market appeal to stablize it.

there is a difference of being a fan of the seiyuu to begin with and a fan of the singer to begin with.

it makes perfet sense that somebody who is a fan of the singer aspect of Ono Daisuke not to be aware of him being a seiyuu. if you only heard his music then it stands to reason you wouldnt. you are a fan of Ono Daisuke the musician not Ono Daisuke the seiyuu.

two different things.

[Royal_Devil]

first that was a typo and should have been a question mark... as in Seiyuu and Mangaka are in the same industry? as voice actors are not the same as mangaka. the serve two totally different purposes and can function fine without each other.

Well it depends on the mangaka. Some like you said do care about the anime version so they have seiyuu in mind. Some don't care and they wouldn't apply. Some come to like how the seiyuu do it. And some outright hate the anime version of their work. The first group was what you were talking about. The third group is mostly pleased that their work is doing so well in another medium and of course are very grateful towards the seiyuus and others. It's like an author's work being made into a movie here. Some like it, some hate it, some warm up to it. Unless they're already dead of course...

which if you consider them to be in the same industry then it makes your earlier comparisons and references with Miyazaki and Hamil of TDK null as those too are from the same industry and not apart of the "general public"

Yes, I said those situations are the same. your point? I've never once said English VA's >>>> seiyuus. I've always been arguing about how similar they really are and how similar their situations are. I don't know where you got that I insinuated Hamill being looked up for TDK was somehow better than seiyuus, I was using that to counter you using some random idol using a seiyuu.

i didnt say it wasnt the case.... i just said that doesnt make much logical sense for "thousands of otakus and children" to be the base of any high gains business without it also having a more mass market appeal to stablize it.

Anime DVDs are expensive in Japan. If someone offered you or me 2 episodes for $50 or more would you accept? Or would you be like the otaku and fork over the money and take the DVD home to watch no questions asked. DVD prices there are like that because they're the key to paying off productions and those thousands of otaku are still eating this stuff up.

Let's look at all the series out there right now. Majority are based off a manga, a light novel, or a game. These things have established fanbases and many of those fans are otaku of those works. So they're going to go crazy and buy up the anime version. Original programs have to be a hit with anime otaku to be successful. Keep in mind we don't get EVERY series that airs from Japan. There are plenty of series that bomb, that's the nature of any entertainment industry.

And this is just DVDs. Merchandise is a whole nother beast that can cover and otaku's room in stuff. You know those creepy people in anime surrounded by figures and stuff. That's actually not far off the mark.

it makes perfet sense that somebody who is a fan of the singer aspect of Ono Daisuke not to be aware of him being a seiyuu. if you only heard his music then it stands to reason you wouldnt. you are a fan of Ono Daisuke the musician not Ono Daisuke the seiyuu.

But you could only like him as a singer since you may not like anime or may feel you've outgrown it, which is an all too common occurrence in Japan if what kj and others have said.

[Ryuujin]

Bleach sucks...Did you hear Gai-Sensei's voice on Naruto? Cringe-worthy.
What are you talking about? His English voice is awesome, and very similar to his Japanese voice at that...

Adult Swim is called that but all the adult themes are edited. Why don't they just call it TEENAGE SWIM?! Dubbers censor...I HATE THAT MOST OF ALL!
You realize most anime is already censored from the manga to begin with, right? Hell, some anime get changed in ways that would make 4Kids proud...

Scott McNeil successfully voiced four different characters in Beast Wars.
And ended up spending much of the series arguing with himself :heh:

[Nervous Venus]

Anime is for kids. That is the reality of how it is viewed - even in Japan.

No utterance is more difficult to refute than the ultimate absurdity.

[Royal_Devil]

No utterance is more difficult to refute than the ultimate absurdity.

So where's your proof to the contrary? We've got two Japanese natives (that I can remember right now) saying that in the same thread. Neither of them necessarily like how it is but that's the way the world is. It's not too much of a stretch to say most anime is made for kids and/or otaku. There are exceptions mind you but generally you're more like to see sports, news, and live action shows being watched by the general public than you would anime.

Now keep in mind when I say this, manga and anime are actually viewed in two different lights for some strange reason. For some reason, manga is apparently a more accepted form of entertainment than the animated form. Anyone can read a manga on the train and not even be given a second glance. For some reason, being an adult and admitting you love anime that's not a classic or by Miyazaki has actually lost some people their jobs in Japan.

[mugenTaichou]

No matter which language it is, what way, what kind of actors are (good, bad, dunno),what purpose....



Dub sucks.

[Nervous Venus]

So where's your proof to the contrary?

I can't refute the absolute absurdity remember ? :D

On a serious note, I will agree that people who say they watch Bleach or Naruto in Japan are generally kids 10 - 16. Everyone knows that's the main target audience. However, I do have a question. A lot of anime are derived from manga, you agree? So if manga are treated differently than anime, what about the majority of anime that came from manga?

How are they treated?

[Royal_Devil]

I checked the Wiki article about otaku

In Japan, anime is not as widely accepted and mainstream as manga. Because of this the otaku subculture has much influence over the mainstream anime industry in Japan. The area where otaku have the most influence in manga tends to be with dōjinshi.

But that's wiki so I know I'll need better things but it was interesting.

Anyway, according to this (http://news.scotsman.com/latestnews/Japans-comicbook-nerds-are-proud.2681557.jp) There are an estimated 3 million anime otaku in Japan. People within this movement spend 400 billion yen a year on anime and merchandise. Like I said, they may have a bigger geek culture than us. I'll have to check for articles about how things are in the West but we do have a comic book movie grossing a lot of money in a few weeks (keep in mind Titanic was in theaters for 9 months in some places and never made more than 30 million in one weekend). Still, that's 3 million out of 127,433,494 so it's still a minority like I said it was. But I'd say that's more than enough for anime companies to make ends meat off them. And that's 2005 mind you so things may have changed :D


I can't refute the absolute absurdity remember ? :D

On a serious note, I will agree that people who say they watch Bleach or Naruto in Japan are generally kids 10 - 16. Everyone knows that's the main target audience. However, I do have a question. A lot of anime are derived from manga, you agree? So if manga are treated differently than anime, what about the majority of anime that came from manga?

How are they treated?

I honestly don't know. I would imagine they fair better. Of course it may come down to ability to watch it. manga's so popular because you can read it anywhere. anime's limited to the television. Perhaps reading something on the train or on off time is seen as less extreme as watching cartoons on TV when you could be doing something more constructive at home or watch something that "matters" like the news or how well Japan's allstars are doing overseas. Or in the case of kids and teens, whether you saw the latest new music video by a big band or are keeping up with the latest fashion news.

[BleachOD]

.


You realize most anime is already censored from the manga to begin with, right? Hell, some anime get changed in ways that would make 4Kids proud...

Really?! I guess I missed that...:uhoh:

Of course I know that. However what is targeted at 12-16 age group in Japan is consider R rated or at least PG18. That is why Bleach airs on ADULT swim and not those Toonami cartoon Blocks that come on after school. It's is then censored again after it was already censored. My thing is...why call it adult swim if you are gonna censor it for underage viewers.:frustrated:

@Devil. One, I agree Chad doesn't sound like a name in the Spanish language. Moreover it seems it's the translators who call him that. His name is Sado, Ichigo says Chado.Everyone else says Sado. He is Mexican and Japanese. His name is Japanese.

I wonder if there is a similar name in Arabic? :confused:Your language derives from Arabic.

Last ...Don't refer to yourself as Hispanic. It's derogatory and it's another way of saying "that you are black" but not in a nice way. You should look up the history of that word. The thing is I am a second class citizen just like an immigrant. ...

Never mind it's not the place for it....just try not to use that word. It's the equivalent of the "N word"

[Royal_Devil]

@Devil. One, I agree Chad doesn't sound like a name in the Spanish language. Moreover it seems it's the translators who call him that. His name is Sado, Ichigo says Chado.Everyone else says Sado. He is Mexican and Japanese. His name is Japanese.

You know I meant his voice right?

Never mind it's not the place for it....just try not to use that word. It's the equivalent of the "N word"

So basically it's a word I can refer to myself and others of my race as much as I want but the moment someone of any other race uses it, it's the worse word ever?

[Mitsuomi1971]

I will tell you the reason I watch anime...I grew up in Japan in the 70's and early 80's, I grew up when anime was created basically...and when I moved here I was so tripped out by the crappy cartoons that when I got older and anime made it here I craved it...it is more mature in nature than many of even todays TV shows here in the US. I love the humor to be found in most of Japanese television not just anime. I guess I just enjoy a more mature message coupled with humor, and it seems that anime provides it...I also read books and watch US TV as well and enjoy many shows but anime is in my heart

[Hari Michiru]

Really?! I guess I missed that...:uhoh:

Of course I know that. However what is targeted at 12-16 age group in Japan is consider R rated or at least PG18. That is why Bleach airs on ADULT swim and not those Toonami cartoon Blocks that come on after school. It's is then censored again after it was already censored. My thing is...why call it adult swim if you are gonna censor it for underage viewers.:frustrated:


Yeah, this is true. The ratings in Japan are vastly different from here, because what they deem to be okay for teens, may or may not be okay for teens here.

[DjTrizz]

stupid television censor babysitters!

[Royal_Devil]

Really?! I guess I missed that...:uhoh:

You missed all the blood turned drool in the first Yammy fight? Or when Chad's arm was merely banged up a bit instead of taken completely off like in the manga?

Of course I know that. However what is targeted at 12-16 age group in Japan is consider R rated or at least PG18. That is why Bleach airs on ADULT swim and not those Toonami cartoon Blocks that come on after school. It's is then censored again after it was already censored. My thing is...why call it adult swim if you are gonna censor it for underage viewers.:frustrated:

Wait, animation wise what have they censored on AS? Nothing that I've noticed. In fact, they removed a censor found in the original Japanese version.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3140/aizenstabjpusuy0.jpg

And if you watch the episode again, you'll see in the AS version they show Momo falling to the floor. In the Japanese version you only HEAR her falling but never see it

[DjTrizz]

interesting, I always that it was bile that came out of Ichigo, not really spit

also that's a interesting bit of info about that clip

[Royal_Devil]

interesting, I always that it was bile that came out of Ichigo, not really spit

bile is just as bad. It was blood in the manga and should have stayed blood

[DjTrizz]

I can let some things slide, depends whether or not they intended for it to be spit, cause I don't think you really see much forced vomiting in anime >.>