Higurashi Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[kj1980]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 17.

Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for RAWs.
Try to keep spoilers from the Game or Manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Game / Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.


Spoiler Tag Usage

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Don't forget to use the spoiler title

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ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni
Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) before you ask questions!!!

Feel free to utilize the info on the TIPS section (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31732) as a complement to this series.

Feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting.

I am designating Sushi-Y and Freakman to lead the discussion in the correct path without spoilers as they have played the game in advance. I put confidence in them that they will recognize a member has spilled the beans too far if any other members has begun to play the game.

SPOILERS FAR ADVANCED THAN THE CURRENT AIRED ANIME EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS INCLUDES THOSE IN SPOILER TAGS!!!. People tend to peek at spoiler tags; especially when they do not know such tag is meant for the episode, only to find it spilling the beans too far advanced in the game storyline.

[Freakman]

As usual the distorted faces looked pretty weird, but it's not like it started in this ep.
I found Shion's seiyuu performance pretty good. The kejime scene was kind of chilling.
I'll let Sushi do his rant about how they slaughtered the game again, because I've grown seriously tired of playing the "spot the differences" game, although I can understand where most complains are coming from.
I'd like to throw in a prayer for the anime staff to at least use a Dai track once in the anime...　おこりそうにないが。。。

Watanagashi's mystery is almost up. Ladies and Gentlemen, place your bets, and anxiously wait for episode 18.

[Rasuberi]

Aha... I found Shion's "shocked" faces to be weirdest. Can pupils get that small normally?

I enjoyed this episode a lot really... answered many things I was wondering. Mainly things that have to do with Satoshi and Shion. The kejime scene was great though... Mion...　こわっ！ Can't wait for the next episode~!

I'm really glad I read through this forum though. TT__TT; Otherwise I'd not enjoy the anime as much since I wouldn't understand things... the pacing is way to quick. I hope I can buy the games soon~

[Sushi-Y]

I'll let Sushi do his rant about how they slaughtered the game again, because I've grown seriously tired of playing the "spot the differences" game, although I can understand where most complains are coming from.
It's not as if I like to do that, but I suppose it's clear enough that there's always going to be a few things that's just "off" with each episode.

In this episode it was:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1645/12450124911251312402123681242512375123981239412367 389or1.th.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1245012491125131240212368124251237512 3981239412367389or1.jpg)
- Akane-san...!? What did they do to Mion and Shion's young and sexy mom!? :twitch: There were a few other spots that kind of made me go "what the...", but nobody probably cares even if I explained, so I'll leave them.

I must commend the staff for the kejime scene in this episode though:
It was excellently done, Shion's fear and pain came through perfectly. Mion's "cold business face" was cold indeed, but it's important to notice that Mion is only forced to appear cold because of her duty, and that it really pains her to see her sister get punished. Mion knew that losing 3 nails was the easiest and lightest punishment that Shion can get off with, that's why she insisted Shion go through with it.

Other than that, yeah, I'm surprised they actually showed the whole kejime process, even down the to painful details like Shion slipping on her second strike, causing her nail to only come off halfway (which is a lot more painful than if she had cleanly took it off). I was going "owowowowowow" just from watching it. :(

Also, although short, there were monologues by Shion in this episode. If only they could use them for more than just narration though... (Kyon can narrate and think at the same time, why can't Shion? ^^; )

Looks like next episode is going to be the turning point in the chapter, hmm... There are some great confrontations left in the chapter, I'm looking forward to them.

Aha... I found Shion's "shocked" faces to be weirdest. Can pupils get that small normally?
She also have tear-glands that work like water-taps. ^^;

[Eleutheria]

I'll let Sushi do his rant about how they slaughtered the game again,.

Err...


----

Anyway, the raw came out pretty quickly this week...

So that was the kejime (distinction?) scene... to think that both Mion and Shion have the same seiyuu :heh: It was quite the gory scene, though.

So we still don't know whether Satoshi ran away or whether he was snatched away via onikakushi. Shion ostensibly redeemed all three people with her fingernails, but it must've come as quite a shock that Satoshi didn't get away 100% as well.

Satoshi was exculpated of the murder, which could've been the Sonozaki family's way of letting him go. So Satoshi's disappearance could have nothing to do with Sonozaki at all.

We do get a window into how the Sonozaki family handles its family business...

[Freakman]

Also something I forgot to mention :

It seems they pinpointed the murder on Satoshi : at least the animation made it pretty clear. But even the game didn't if I remember correctly.
Also : I don't remember from the game, but doesn't the conversation between Satoshi & Shion mean that when Keiichi calls Mion in Tatarigoroshi, it was actually Shion ? Or do we have to assume that Shion just told Mion about Satoshi's call before the murder ? But it doesn't really make sense for it to be Shion in Tatarigoroshi, as she plays no role there. I'm confused :D

[LostBlue]

kejime (distinction?) scene

I don't know if there is a clean translation for Kejime in English. Kejime I guess roughly translates to Distinction, but is often used in the way Higurashi shows it... (well, not always to that extreme). To make the distinction between what's forgivable or not... to make the distinction of one's resolve... usually in anime/movies/tv/manga that involves a sadistic party this distinction is made by a difficult and usually painful condition set by the opposing party. If Shion didn't complete that task there then she is seen to be unable to make the distinction for her uncle's and Kasai's fate...

that's the best way I think I can explain that...

--

Overall, I think I like the episode... there's a few things that caught me off-guard but nothing really crucial (I'm guessing the way they did the telephone call the short epilogue will be cut - not really important since there's no Minagoroshi). The two things that struck me was first the audience for the Kejime...

I imganined Oryou sitting in like a throne waiting for the victim like a game evil overlord would with the Kejime device right by her hands so she can get a VIP look. The audience was much smaller than I thought too... oh well, that was just my imagination.

Second is the 次期頭首 Mion's voice and demeanor... whoa~ that's scary. Much scarier than what I imagined in the game. Although it was quite amusing to hear Satsuki-san go Cold Demon for one line, pleaing tearful girl the next and back again. She must of had fun :heh:

[LostBlue]

Also something I forgot to mention :
It seems they pinpointed the murder on Satoshi : at least the animation made it pretty clear. But even the game didn't if I remember correctly.

yeah, that was one that struck me as weird. I don't remember it being explict in the game either at any point just vague enough allusions to make the gamer think it was. Well, the scene in the anime was all just a shadowy figure but the voice... well, maybe a low budget is to be blamed?


Also : I don't remember from the game, but doesn't the conversation between Satoshi & Shion mean that when Keiichi calls Mion in Tatarigoroshi, it was actually Shion ? Or do we have to assume that Shion just told Mion about Satoshi's call before the murder ? But it doesn't really make sense for it to be Shion in Tatarigoroshi, as she plays no role there. I'm confused :D


hmm... I personally think it was Shion who picked up the call... but... it probably doesn't matter much either way. Mi & Shi talked to each other alot so it might have been the way you explained above. I think the only important thing is K1/Satoshi made the call rather than who received the call.

[Eleutheria]

After reading the interrogation summary for this episode in the TIPS thread, I must say that I think like Oishi.

Whether that theory hews close to the truth or not, the following may then be possible:


Shion gets heavily influenced by Oishi's theory. She now hates the Sonozaki family, especially Oryou and probably Mion as well.

When K1 comes into town, she sees an opportunity for turnabout, since the situation is now the mirror image of Satoshi.

--Shion liked Satoshi, Mion likes K1.

In order for Shion to have her revenge, she needs to line up the scenarios exactly.

--Satoshi incurred the wrath of the head family because he was "bad": he is a Houjou, and a killer.
--Thus Shion tricks K1 into visiting the taboo temple on the day of the festival, making him a criminal in the eyes of the head family.

One thing leads to another and we see the scene at the start of Meakashi-hen: Shion tasers Oryou and Mion, and does her own version of torture on everybody. Add swamp gas and everybody dies...

[Circular Logic]

I have one word for this episode: ow.

Curse my sucky Japanese skills. I'm going to have to wait for the sub :/

[TougeSil80]

I feel for Shion. Man, I couldn't bare watching her finger nails getting pull off like that, I had to skip some of it. But still, man, this ep is well done, although it didn't explain much. Satoshi could've been killed by one of the three mafia families, or he could've got onikakushi'd.

[USCPharmacist]

Don't mess with the "FAMILY" man.

And I think is kinda suck for Shion that while she looks exactly like Mion in every respect she has no power whatsoever in the "FAMILY". Kind of like an extra that shouldn't exist. It must do wonder for her psyche.

I also wish the show will show us what going through Mion's head when she torture her sister. Mion is either a crazy bitch just like Shion, or she is trying hard to control herself in front of the "FAMILY". It must hurt to compose herself while her sister scream in agony.

BTW, so what if Satoshi killed her Aunt? The is no reason for the Sonozoki family to get mad at other people killing each other except there is something the family want to hide from the police. Which means that they do not want attention from the police at all and Satoshi did just that. Since the Old Hag hate the Hojos that just make the situation worse. Although I wonder if the Old Hag order her goons to take out Satoshi anyway or that they force Satoshi to go away while setting up a scapegoat for the police to divert their attention. I record that the suspect die eventually, probably murdered by the Sonozakis. It seems that's how Sonozaki do their business. They probably also threaten the police to some degree, so only Oishi is sticking his nose in thing and no one else.

[kj1980]

All usual minor differences aside, this one excelled in portraying Shion's grueling torture scene with the nail remover. They did everything that was written in the game, including the slip-up on her second shot. I squirmed in the original game with the text, but seeing it animated just made me shudder even more. Ouch!

The anime did cut out a large portion of Oishi's interrogation/interview with Shion at the end, but I managed to write a not-so-brief rundown in the TIPS section here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=628087&postcount=89).

It's interesting to see Kujira doing the voice for Aunt Houjou Tamae. It fits perfectly well with her speciality of doing voices for obnoxious middle-aged women. Well that and Orochimaru from NARUTO.

Oryou! Her hard dialect makes it difficult to decipher what she is saying, but they did an excellent job in portraying her as an evil mastermind. And no, I'm not saying any further.

What did they do to Akane-san!? She's supposed to be a MILF, yet they made her...sigh. I'm too tired right now to go on ranting. I'll post a screenshot of her later so people can compare.

[Deathkillz]

All usual minor differences aside, this one excelled in portraying Shion's grueling torture scene with the nail remover. They did everything that was written in the game, including the slip-up on her second shot. I squirmed in the original game with the text, but seeing it animated just made me shudder even more. Ouch!


havent seen this ep yet but WTF? :twitch: torture scene of shion...how could they T_T not gona be happy watching that scene...

[Sinestra]

Posted in the wrong episode forum Mod can you please erase sorry thanx

[LostBlue]

- Akane-san...!? What did they do to Mion and Shion's young and sexy mom!? :twitch:


What did they do to Akane-san!? She's supposed to be a MILF, yet they made her...sigh. I'm too tired right now to go on ranting. I'll post a screenshot of her later so people can compare.

Just for comparison...

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/5708/akanekasaivi7.th.jpg (http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=akanekasaivi7.jpg)
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1645/12450124911251312402123681242512375123981239412367 389or1.th.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1245012491125131240212368124251237512 3981239412367389or1.jpg)


Wow, lining them up like this... :twitch:
Akane-san aside, I do like how they did Kasai-san. Mion's father looks a bit better in this EP compared to his rendition in Himatsubushi. Still not Yakuza enough for me tho.

[Rasuberi]

Just for comparison...

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/5708/akanekasaivi7.th.jpg (http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=akanekasaivi7.jpg)
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1645/12450124911251312402123681242512375123981239412367 389or1.th.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1245012491125131240212368124251237512 3981239412367389or1.jpg)


Wow, lining them up like this... :twitch:
Akane-san aside, I do like how they did Kasai-san. Mion's father looks a bit better in this EP compared to his rendition in Himatsubushi. Still not Yakuza enough for me tho.

Why couldn't they have left Akane to look like she did in Himatsubushi, even. >__<; *tries to ignore the wrinkles* Before I even saw Akane in the anime, I loved... her... why~~~?

[Sushi-Y]

Wow, lining them up like this... :twitch:
And graphics were the weakest part of the game too. ^^;

Imagine the Akane-san from someone good like Mori Keiji-san...
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3586/s06oi8.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=s06oi8.jpg)
:uhoh:

[Deku Kirby]

I do like how they did Kasai-san. Mion's father looks a bit better in this EP compared to his rendition in Himatsubushi. Still not Yakuza enough for me tho.

...What? Kasai is Mion's father?

[Shizen]

...What? Kasai is Mion's father?

No, Kasai is Shion's bodyguard, but you can see their father sitting next to Akane in the torture scene (the guy with the glasses)

[Idle Eve]

Okay, where to begin? Alright, I've watched Higurashi from the start to the most recent episode. I have to say that around 13- 15 my faith dwindled. Now, with the recent Shion arcs, I have to say I'm ready to place serious considerations into studying Higurashi. As a writer (and not very good at that.), I think it's important to be able to engage the readers into placing false assumptions and/or clues that make the reading intriguing. Well, whenever I read, it feels fun to see how facts add up.

Now... enough about my bias. I was always curious about Shion and Satoshi's relationship. Also, I was curious about Shion's mentality as well. In this arc, we get a dose of both and I can firmly say...

Shion needs a nice dose of chill the f-- I mean. She needs serious help after hurting Satoko. Well, that's what I thought. For now, since I love Shion so much, I think I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt and say that her abusive family puts her on the brink of a psychological breakdown. To understand what I mean, all one needs to do is to look at the "distinction" they placed upon Shion. By isolating Shion (social distinction), they make her an outcast and create a potential threat with emotional problems (love being the first that comes to mind). By hurting Shion (the ritual of distinction), they give her more than enough reason to take up the sword and fight. At this point, I'm all for the grandma's slaughter. Not necessarily Mion... For some reason, I think she was torn between her bond between her sister and the duties as the heir.

Hmm... some problems I saw with this episode? Well, I think only one bothers me.

How could Satoshi, a loving brother (?), forgive Shion for throwing around her sister? I can't even forumlate a hypothesis regarding this. Anyone want to try? How about you, Sushi? We both do like Satosh-- I mean Satoko.

--- Currently Reading TIPS.
I need to check somethings out.
* Feel free to talk to me on Aim or Msn. I need organize somethings on Higurashi so I can write a better story.

[Archuka]

Watching the torture scene made me feel sick. I think I'd pass out before I could do anything if I was in the same situation as Shion. :uhoh:

The episode was excellent in my opinion, just like the rest of Maekashi-hen (except some weird things like the super strenght that has been present in every arc). If I ever watch this again I'm going to skip over the torture scene, though. I just can't handle it.

[Matrim]

Very good episode, my respect for Shion probably tripled after watching it.

Satoshi calling Mion the day after the incident in school was quite weird.
Ooishi made an amateurish mistake by letting Shion and Satoshi talk for a few minutes and come up with an alibi before interrogating them. Shion standing up against Ooishi and then against her grandmother was very well done. And of course, the nail removal scene was so good it hurt.

Rika telling Satoko that it has been decided and her pain was going to end this very day was chilling. Rika is either a prophet or she somehow learned about Satoshi's plan. The third option is that someone else had planned to kill the aunt and Rika knew about that.
Too bad they didn't really show the face of the murderer of the aunt, although it seems obvious it was Satoshi.

Now it seems very likely that Shion was the evil sister in Watanagashi. But since this is Higurashi, it could well be the other way round.

As for Ooishi's theory shown in the TIPS, it does sound likely the Sonozakis struck a deal with Satoshi. But the part where it is said he would be crushed of the teddy bear had been bought seemed a bit of a stretch to me, surely he would be able to think of another present to buy with this money? And I just don't see him striking a deal with the Sonozakis - what guarantees would he have they would really protect Satoko? In Tatarigoroshi-hen they didn't seem too eager to protect her from her uncle, unless they were behind his murder, of course.

[BakaOnna]

Another 10 from me. I'm loving this arc, but damn, that torture scene was brutal. >.< That was so hard to watch. I feel really bad for Shion now.

With that aside, am I the only one that noticed the really off-coloring of Rika's hair. It's supposed to be dark blue, kind of matching the the sub coloring, but it's a light blue. I thought that was really strange. Animation error, I guess. But man, what a great episode. Can't wait for 18.

[aliensporebomb]

Yes, the torture was brutal beyond belief. Mion was either cold as ice or she was
more or less forced to toe the family line or she too would be punished. Brutal.

I can imagine the ending now of this arc given the beginning. Brrrr....

I'm beginning to think nobody gets a happy ending in this story but it's very
compelling stuff.

I need to go watch a love story or something, I was having Higarashi dreams
that were very bizzarre right around the last episode, after seeing the effects
of the "Sonozaki Family Nail Salon" I'm just a little more freaked out by them.

Mion, how could you do it? And now I understand Shion's motives for what
happened a lot more.

[Shuin4]

With that aside, am I the only one that noticed the really off-coloring of Rika's hair. It's supposed to be dark blue, kind of matching the the sub coloring, but it's a light blue. I thought that was really strange. Animation error, I guess.

I noticed that too. at first i thought it was some kind of effect they tried pulling off with the sunset, but nobody else's hair was lighter either.

oh god, that torture scene. and oh god, teppei really knows how to pick 'em. their aunt looked and sounded like a man. and oryou really scared me when she shouted at shion.

also, can't wait to see who shion was choking (at least that's what it looked like) in the next episode.

[Idle Eve]

Frankly, I just want some more "Ni-Pah" and a bit of Shion Sonozaki revenge. Is that so much to ask? ;_;. Well, according to many of you, not really. I'd think that the attack of the Shion Ninjas would be in order after that trip to the Higurashi Nail Salon. I honestly don't have much sympathy for a family that does that to their children. Ugh. I must have flinched twice and clenched my right ear. Not the best reaction to an otherwise gruelly torture, but at least I didn't throw up.

[BakaOnna]

Speaking of Higurashi related dreams. I had one the night after I finish ep. 8 of Watanagashi-hen. I was chased by Mion or Shion with her hammer and nails. >.< I don't really remember what happened in the end because I woke up. When I did, I was like, "Whoa... this series is not good to watch right before you sleep." :heh:

Anyway, here's stuff I've gotten so far from this arc, and this is my prediction of Watanagashi-hen. Some of it might be really repetative since it's a summization of what I've gathered.

Mion or Shion:
First we find out that Shion is the odd one of the family, whom no one in the Sonozaki family cares about. She was even supposed to die right after she's born. She escapes from her boarding school and calls Mion. The two sisters are really close together and Mion allowed Shion to dress up as her so she can find work in Hinamizawa.

This obviously means that Mion and Shion has switched in Watanagashi-hen. Almost everyone has already realized this. Here's what I think:
When Kei-chan first meets Shion in Angel Mort, it had to be Shion. She tells him that her sister has told her about him. Keiichi doesn't believe her and think its actually Mion pretending to be more feminine.

Next, the bentou and the bullies. The person who gave the bentou was Mion dressed up as Shion. Mion probably told Shion about liking Keiichi, similar to how Shion told Mion she liked Satoshi. Shion allows her sister to dress up like her, and Mion, dress up as Shion, gives Kei-chan the bentou. It's also hinted to be Mion because Keiichi had told she and Rena that he was hungry and his parents weren't home. During the scene where he's about to return it, and he gets attacked by the delinquients, that had to be Mion, still pretending to be Shion. When I read the manga ch. 4, it went into more detail on the scene, and it actually showed the more "demon" side of her.

The one who took Keiichi into the Shrine had to be Shion, since, like someone else has mentioned, she probably wants revenge against Onibaba and Mion. To do this, she brings Keiichi into the Shrine to get him in trouble. After he leaves the shrine, Mion, Rena, Rika, and Sakoto meets up with him. There, Mion asks him if he went into the shrine and he lies. I still can't figure out which twin was the one that asked him the same question the second time.

In episode 7, during the latter scene, that had to be Shion. I figured this out after watching ep. 9 of Tatarigoroshi-hen. Shion likes Satoshi and blames Sakoto for all the pain she's caused him. She was probably also the person that caused the disappearance of Rika and Sakoto.

In episode 8, I'm guess the one in the cage was Mion and the one who's actually "Mion" is Shion. First, she listens to Rena, and from what we've seen in this answer arc, Shion is wary of Rena. Shion also never showed the tatoo that was supposed to be on her back since Rena stopped her.

Now the problem I'm having is who is who during the telephone scenes, and who stabbed Keiichi. Shion had supposedly jumped off her apartment window at the time Keiichi got stabbed, and we find out Mion has been in the well. As for that last scene in Watanagashi-hen, that was probably just Keiichi's imagination, since it was right after Oishi had told him the dead is walking.

Whew, that was long. Anyway, I'll try to figure out more during the telephone scenes and the last few parts after seeing the rest of this arc.

Now for the relationship between Satoshi and Keiichi:
Ever since the first arc, we've always been told that Keiichi is doing exactly or close to what Satoshi did. Heck, even their personalities are alike. In this arc, we find out that Satoshi used to be on the baseball team and was really good. He took on the abuse for Sakoto, and he hated his aunt and uncle. From this episode, we see "him" beat his aunt to death with a baseball bat. He had saved up a sum of money to buy Sakoto a birthday present before he leaves. He believes he is cursed and being watched by Oyashiro-sama. Oishi and his policemen find him the next day and suspect him as the killer. Stuff happens between him and Shion that I don't feel like going into since we all know after seeing this episode. Then we find out that he disappeared and he's not the suspected person to have killed the aunt.

Let's compare this to what Keiichi did in Tatarigoroshi-hen, shall we? Satoshi called Mion to apologize for the other day. Mion hangs up on him and tells Shion. Shion then calls him pretending to be Mion. Satoshi tells Shion to bring Sakoto to the festival since he'll be doring something. Then they talk a bit about Oyashiro-sama and the curse.

In Tatarigoroshi-hen, we're believed that Keiichi called Mion. Now here's the problem. Who did he really call; Mion or Shion? It's hinted that its Mion since Shion is barely in the arc. In this arc, we see the actual scene of them at the festival. The one with the group could be Mion or Shion dressed up as Mion. If it was Shion dressed up as Mion, then where's the real Mion? Back home in her Estate? But it would make sense if Keiichi had called Mion during the arc, since she liked him and stuff.

Now for the actual murder. Satoshi called the aunt and told her he found a good chest that could be sold. She rode over to it and Satoshi beat her to death. We don't see his face, just a shadow of a person. I still think it's Satoshi since all evidence points to him. Keiichi, well, you know what he did. I don't feel like explaining it. In the end, Satoshi was believe to have "disappeared", while for Keiichi, the whole village got destroyed and he died a few days later after the interview. From what I've gather, both of them were experience some sort of influence, shall I say, of Oyashiro-sama. Satoshi feeling he's being watched, and Keiichi hearing the footsteps.

Okay, I don't exactly know what I wrote that last thing for since it was just basically a summerization of the 3rd arc and how it was related to Satoshi. I guess it helps me process my thoughts. Anyway, I'll come out with more once this arc finishes. And I must say, this is one of the longest posts I've ever written in all the forums I've been to so far, and I've been on a lot of forums.

[Sinestra]

well i dont even know where to start i gave it a 10 and i continue to love this series. My opinion Shion has always been very good and it has only gotten better with this Arc. The Distinction scene really made my stomach turn. I dont even want to think about the pain one would feel from it. That scene remeinded me of some loyalty test i have read about from diffrent countries in the past. where one would inficict harm upon themselves to prove loyalty or to achieve adult hood.

My thoughts on Shion are that of a serverly psychologically damaged person. I cant blame her for being unstable. First they isolated her to avoid a stuggle for head of the Sonozaki clan, they basically made her an outcast depriving her of affection and basic human contact. Its no wonder she has turned out the way she has being deprived of those basic human needs its no wonder when she meets someone as troubled as her should fall in love with him. At this point i only see bad things ahead for basically everyone Shion will snap the preview the next episode talked about the demon being awakend and something about a tazer which Shion does carry. I am all for the grandmother being done in hopefully very slowly, I however dont want to see Mion done in i think she is a product of her fate even doing the Distinction scene she showed signs of remorse and tried in her own way to tell Shion to hang in there. oh now i have to go watch something happy i always feel depressed after i watch Higurashi.


By the way the series is based of a real book right? does anyone know where i can find the book i would love to read it.

[myopius]

I love Higurashi.

This arc's narration by Shion made it really unique. It wasn't like the Keiichi arcs or the police guy arc... You had a knowledgeable villager describing various aspects of the plot's background. Excepting the one incident in the first episode of this arc, Shion has been very kind and empathic in her perspective, and I really enjoy her character.

(I don't have any deep theories related to this arc, but I'm just posting out of the desire to express my love for Higurashi.)

[Idle Eve]

That scene remeinded me of some loyalty test i have read about from diffrent countries in the past. where one would inficict harm upon themselves to prove loyalty or to achieve adult hood.

To be honest, I felt the same way. I hope Shion doesn't feel too much pain afterwards, honestly... Having someone do that to you is one thing, but hurting yourself that much is another. Anyway, about that loyalty test, I recall that after the Sophomore boys pulled a prank on a teacher (they wroter over his car), the male teachers all got them together and had a long talk. Somewhere during the talk, we came across a story by our biology teacher (I respect this guy greatly) and he told us about his trip to Africa as a Peace Corps. Apparently he got the chance to see this tribes loyalty test where they had to...circumcize... a boys genitals. Painful? YES. The only painkiller was one could bucket of water... After that experience, the boys were then considered men. Going back to Shion, I believe that she proved herself. My respects, honestly.


My thoughts on Shion are that of a serverly psychologically damaged person. I cant blame her for being unstable. First they isolated her to avoid a stuggle for head of the Sonozaki clan, they basically made her an outcast depriving her of affection and basic human contact. Its no wonder she has turned out the way she has being deprived of those basic human needs its no wonder when she meets someone as troubled as her should fall in love with him. At this point i only see bad things ahead for basically everyone Shion will snap the preview the next episode talked about the demon being awakend and something about a tazer which Shion does carry. I am all for the grandmother being done in hopefully very slowly, I however dont want to see Mion done in i think she is a product of her fate even doing the Distinction scene she showed signs of remorse and tried in her own way to tell Shion to hang in there. oh now i have to go watch something happy i always feel depressed after i watch Higurashi.


By the way the series is based of a real book right? does anyone know where i can find the book i would love to read it.

Regarding Shion, we pretty much have the same opinion. The Arc did a good job with the "distinctions" placed upon Shion, so I won't go any further.

Hmm. About the book, I know nothign about it, but I certainly would love to read it too. Sadly, I'd bet it would be only in Japanese and given that, it would be a tough read for non-Japanese speakers.

[LostBlue]

Concerning Satoshi forgiving Mion...
1) Mion is close to pretty much all the classmates.

2) It's the recent pressure on Satoshi that's pushed him away from EVERYONE

3) Satoshi really is a kind person inside

4) This is just my opinion, but Shion really didn't do much to Satoko compared to what happens to her at home EVERYDAY.

5) After cooling down a bit, Satoshi realizes that regardless of all his doubts with the Sonozaki Family, Mion (and Shion) have always supported him

6) If Satoshi killed his Aunt planning it the way K1 did to Teppei in Tatarigoroshi, he wanted to secure Satoko's safety first. Mion is the leader of his the group of friends. Rika is too young. Rena is too new = doesn't know her (just moved back). Mion can take care of Satoko the best while he is away.

--

oh now i have to go watch something happy i always feel depressed after i watch Higurashi.

This is soooo true. This is probably one of the main reasons why I think I love Haruhi as much as I did, b/c I watching it inbetween the chapters ^^;;; Yea, reading the Interview (Tatarigoroshi epilogue) at 2AM wasn't good for my heart.

By the way the series is based of a real book right?
A Sound Novel (game). I personally don't like calling it a game since there really isn't gameplay. You just click and read. No choices. Just read like a novel with creepy sound effects, character portraits, and great BGM music (Dai-san <3). Himeya will have them. The novels IMO are a lot better. You do need a fairly good knowledge of Japanese to read them tho.

[Sushi-Y]

4) This is just my opinion, but Shion really didn't do much to Satoko compared to what happens to her at home EVERYDAY.
lol, so what, like this?

Shion: "I'm sorry for the other day, Satoshi-kun"
Satoshi: "lol it's okay, Satoko gets bitchslapped by her aunt everyday anyway, a few slams against lockers is no big deal. Actually, you should do it more often, it might make her more sturdy, ha-ha-ha-ha-h*kabang*UGH-"
Shion: "Satoshi-kun!?"
*silence*
Shion: "Satoshi-kun!? Satoshi-kun!? Satoshi-kun Satoshi-kun Satoshi-kun Satoshi-kun Satoshi-kun Satoshi-kun Sato-"
Satoko: "...ni-ni- took some time out after bumping his head into my frying pan while I was heating it, he'll be fi- well no, he won't be fine, but please don't mind us, o-ho-ho-ho-ho! You're next bitch"*click*
*beep beep beep beep*

Ni-ni- does not allow any form of abuse towards Satoko, no matter how big or small it may be.

Satoshi simply forgave Shion because he trusts her as a friend (well, he thought she was Mion at the time, but no matter, Satoshi trusted her, that's why he was willing to leave Satoko in her care).

[LostBlue]

:D

well, I just thought the anime over-did it a bit. I mean, Shion grabbibg the chair is going too far, but up until that pt I don't think Satoko herself really knew what was happening to her. Personally, I think Satoko didn't tell anything to Ni-Ni. Ni-Ni saw Satoko on the ground crying and deduce the rest for himself. With him being so distant to everyone, I just don't see him asking anyone what happened. Shion didn't bruise Satoko (unlike how Teppei would) so, that's what I mean it isn't as serious as what happens at home. After looking back at it, he may have thought it really isn't as bad as it looks.

[Shiroth]

The second Shion walked into that temple, i just knew something bad was going to happen.. poor poor Shion. The fact that she missed the second time was just even more murder to watch..

And yet again, even more mystery adds to that what already stands about Satoshi.

[FatPianoBoy]

Yeah, as soon as I saw that familiar door, my heart hit the ground. I was actually prepared for quite a lot worse than the fingernail deal (lunch, anyone?), although that was still painful to watch. Mion seemed to be in some sort of trance the whole time. I doubt she'd have been able to do that to her sister normally. I won't be too upset when Oryou gets something like that done to herself.

Poor Shion... :upset:

[Darklightz]

Now that was an intense episode.

Why does everyone think Mion was in some sort of turmoil while Shion was being tortured?It seems to be that Mion like her sister yes,but her top priority is the affairs of the Sonozaki family.

It was really interesting seeing Satoshi do the exact same thing Keichii did (although chronilogically it's the other way around)

And is it just me or does the insanity always to a critical point when a guy picks up the fated baseball bat?

[Cardiac Glycoside]

Why is there any doubt that Satoshi killed his aunt?

[BakaOnna]

Maybe that's the answer to the mystery. The baseball bat is cursed by Oyashiro-sama and whoever picks it up dies in a certain amount of days. Let's say... 3. :heh:

But given this episode, we can now assume "that incident" that one of the twins mentioned back in ep. 6 of Watanagashi-hen, was this incident.

[Gains]

Maybe that's the answer to the mystery. The baseball bat is cursed by Oyashiro-sama and whoever picks it up dies in a certain amount of days. Let's say... 3. :heh:

But given this episode, we can now assume "that incident" that one of the twins mentioned back in ep. 6 of Watanagashi-hen, was this incident.

Regarding "that incident"... in Watanagashi, the one who is angry of it was Mion. Until this Meakashi episode however, things went against Shion all the time. Being unable to go to public without disguising as Mion, making Satoshi angry by throwing Satoko like a rag doll (although that scene is my guilty pleasure :heh: I hate crying kids), lowering herself by having to apologize to Oryou, and the Kejime. I think Shion is the one who should be angry.

Man...getting to see the Kejime torture repeatedly is a pain. She did all that and it did not guarantee the safety of the people related to her hiding and Satoshi. I agree with the others though, the second hit is the most painful for me.

[MarmoO]

Good episode, even with that low budget (watching this reminded me of one Shinobuden episode, where ninjas were explaining how anime series are made, too many moments with characters looking “cool”). I have to admit, this one changed my opinion about Shion, now she looks more like a pure, innocent girl who has sometimes problems with controlling her own emotions, after watching this I like this character much more (well earlier it was more like: "die Shion, die" - I had something similar with Miss Wednesday/Vivi from One Piece). Scene in torture room, where she openly declared her feelings, without any backing down, was one of the best I have seen. Great character, good episode. Now, I don’t understand few things:
1. Mion also was helping her, why wasn’t she punished?
2. How did they made up? (I think the only way for Mion would be to do the same thing to herself what Shion did).
3. Why, during Watanagashi Mion was the one, who said she didn’t forgive Shion?
4. I think, Watanagashi is a chapter where Shion started to believe that Satoshi is dead and Mion and Oryou are responsible for killing him. What made her believe that?

[NykylaiHellray]

I guess we can nearly safely assume now that Shion was pretending to be Mion in eppisode 8.

With the words saying things like, "thats when the demon awoke in me". It is looking even more that Shion was the insane one.

This epecially confirms the idea that Mion has never killed anyone like she said in chapter 3.

[Sinestra]

To be honest, I felt the same way. I hope Shion doesn't feel too much pain afterwards, honestly... Having someone do that to you is one thing, but hurting yourself that much is another. Anyway, about that loyalty test, I recall that after the Sophomore boys pulled a prank on a teacher (they wroter over his car), the male teachers all got them together and had a long talk. Somewhere during the talk, we came across a story by our biology teacher (I respect this guy greatly) and he told us about his trip to Africa as a Peace Corps. Apparently he got the chance to see this tribes loyalty test where they had to...circumcize... a boys genitals. Painful? YES. The only painkiller was one could bucket of water... After that experience, the boys were then considered men. Going back to Shion, I believe that she proved herself. My respects, honestly.



Regarding Shion, we pretty much have the same opinion. The Arc did a good job with the "distinctions" placed upon Shion, so I won't go any further.

Hmm. About the book, I know nothign about it, but I certainly would love to read it too. Sadly, I'd bet it would be only in Japanese and given that, it would be a tough read for non-Japanese speakers.

Circumcize my self sorry but if it ment that or being killed by the tribe f--k it stone my ass to death at the least the first rock might knock me out first then i dont care what they do. a bucket of cold water man thats rough at least give me a bottle of Jack Danials or Wild Irish Rose so i can be dead drunk when this happens. Oh yeah i totally agree with your post there is no need to go into it but i think you have some very good points.


Lostblue Thanks for the info about the sound novel. i think it would it make an awsome book, since in books you cant see anything you would visualize the deathes and as we all know the human imagination is pretty messed up. Thats funny i would watch Higurashi first then watch Haruhi afterward to offset the depression.

[LostBlue]

Lostblue Thanks for the info about the sound novel. i think it would it make an awsome book, since in books you cant see anything you would visualize the deathes and as we all know the human imagination is pretty messed up.
It's pretty much a book that holds off key moments until you click to see the next scene. Yea, if you really didn't know what to except this novel is pretty damn creepy (See KJ1980's and Sushi-Y's comments on the first Rena's USODA!!!). I knew that was coming so it didn't impact me as much, but the other stuff that I didn't know... *shudders*

The game isn't visual at all. The sound effects + BGM really plays a part to the mood of the setting. It really lets your imagination do the talking.

Thats funny i would watch Higurashi first then watch Haruhi afterward to offset the depression.

Pretty much what I did. :heh: I didn't know about Haruhi until after I finished reading Tatarigoroshi Hen. Haruhi really helped with bringing down the adrenaline rush Higurashi creates.

[Wanderer]

Good episode, even with that low budget (watching this reminded me of one Shinobuden episode, where ninjas were explaining how anime series are made, too many moments with characters looking “cool”). I have to admit, this one changed my opinion about Shion, now she looks more like a pure, innocent girl who has sometimes problems with controlling her own emotions, after watching this I like this character much more (well earlier it was more like: "die Shion, die" - I had something similar with Miss Wednesday/Vivi from One Piece). Scene in torture room, where she openly declared her feelings, without any backing down, was one of the best I have seen. Great character, good episode. Now, I don’t understand few things:
1. Mion also was helping her, why wasn’t she punished?
2. How did they made up? (I think the only way for Mion would be to do the same thing to herself what Shion did).
3. Why, during Watanagashi Mion was the one, who said she didn’t forgive Shion?
4. I think, Watanagashi is a chapter where Shion started to believe that Satoshi is dead and Mion and Oryou are responsible for killing him. What made her believe that?

:) I think I know why you like Shion from 1982, but hate her in 1983:

At this point I'm just about positive that Mion and Shion switched roles for some reason between episode 17 and the start of Watanagashi-hen. I've made some more detailed posts about this in the general discussion/theory thread if you would like to read them.

[Guido]

What creeped me out and made a powerful blast of emotional thriller on me was the "oni & psycho" music played to emphasize Shion's trauma and horror at performing the kejime. It brutally struck me when hearing the noise....

of her fingernail cracking, yet left the moment for the viewer's imagination.


A powerful and ominous episodes; one of Higurashi's at its finest. Ironic coming from a guy like me that never has had played the game before.

After reading the TIPS for Meakashi-hen coupled with this episode and the previous one, I can start piecing how Wataganashi rolled to its haunting unfolding.

I have also make use of my knowledge gathered from Himatsubushi-hen.

Meakashi-hen portrays not only the prequel of events preceding Wataganashi-hen but also Tatarigoroshi-hen as well.

Remembering how Oishii was menacing on Tatarigoroshi?

When he approached Satoshi to deliver his alibi at the station, Oishii was highly insidious for the subject and even felt intimidating, that is until Shion cut him short with her disclosing to be the Twin of the Sonozaki's heir.

Also on that particular scene there's another memorable Shion moment. The camera closely pans at Shion's face showing her eyes bugged out and contorted.

It makes me to reflect and to persuade me both that it was Shion back at Wataganashi-hen whose face became twisted, as if possessed, and suffered a brief fit of rage while she was holding the ladder for Keiichi.

Also remember back in episode 3 of Wataganashi-hen when Keiichi slapped who he presumed to be Mion at the other end of the phone about knowing the elder's kidnapping one day prior to his dissappearance, how Mion maniacally and insanely laughed?
In Meakashi-hen she derisively and sarcastically laughed the same way to challenge her Oni-Baba to outright confess cynically to the whole Sonozaki clan that she (Shion) loves Satoshi, a Houjou, without caring for her namesake or her family's legacy.

It was her maniacal laughter and how she laughed all open-mouthed, that makes me certain to acknowledge that it was Shion back at Wataganashi-hen during all those freak incidents with Keiichi.

I'm also speculating from Himatsubushi-hen, that actually the perpetrator or murderer planned all those killings with anticipation and expectance needing to make himself or herself of the right conditions (Wataganashi) and resources to pull out the stage of terror. Most likely made use of certain characters with grudges against mainly the Sonozaki family or generally to Hinamizawa as scapegoats to cover his/her motives.
For example, Satoshi who is presumed to have killed his aunt; likely the perpetrator took that murder on advantage or Satoshi unaware became a pawn to the perpetrator's needs to commit that murder.

What purpose to cement the locals phobia and hysteria of Oyashiro-sama deadly curse? A ruse to divert attention to the scapegoats. For the year 1982, it was Satoshi's turn.
It may also proves that the real culprit has been planning all the heinous crimes at least within a year of precedence.

So mainly back at 1978 after Akasaka's visit to Hinamizawa, the culprit started his/her machinations on planning the murders.

Meakashi-hen could cement my speculation that Shion would have had a hand on Wataganashi-hen at the year 1983, according to the culprit's calculations and predictions.

And indeed Shion is experiencing on raw flesh how she's starting to feel bitter and murderous about her own family and those who brought misery to Satoshi.

In her black list would be placed:
- Satoko (obvious, she's the interference between Shion and Satoshi)
- Oryou (Shion's Oni-baba whose wretched stance against the Houjou's have casted ostracism and enmity to Houjou Satoshi)
- Mion (Her elder twin who was more favored by the Sonozaki Estate and seemingly Shion witnessed her sister to be on collaboration with the rest of her wretched relatives)

- Oishii??
Could be, however, I think not. Reserving my opinions until obtaining more data.

[aliensporebomb]

What creeped me out and made a powerful blast of emotional thriller on me was the "oni & psycho" music played to emphasize Shion's trauma and horror at performing the kejime. It brutally struck me when hearing the noise....

of her fingernail cracking, yet left the moment for the viewer's imagination.


A powerful and ominous episodes; one of Higurashi's at its finest. Ironic coming from a guy like me that never has had played the game before.

After reading the TIPS for Meakashi-hen coupled with this episode and the previous one, I can start piecing how Wataganashi rolled to its haunting unfolding.

I have also make use of my knowledge gathered from Himatsubushi-hen.

Meakashi-hen portrays not only the prequel of events preceding Wataganashi-hen but also Tatarigoroshi-hen as well.

Remembering how Oishii was menacing on Tatarigoroshi?

When he approached Satoshi to deliver his alibi at the station, Oishii was highly insidious for the subject and even felt intimidating, that is until Shion cut him short with her disclosing to be the Twin of the Sonozaki's heir.

Also on that particular scene there's another memorable Shion moment. The camera closely pans at Shion's face showing her eyes bugged out and contorted.

It makes me to reflect and to persuade me both that it was Shion back at Wataganashi-hen whose face became twisted, as if possessed, and suffered a brief fit of rage while she was holding the ladder for Keiichi.

Also remember back in episode 3 of Wataganashi-hen when Keiichi slapped who he presumed to be Mion at the other end of the phone about knowing the elder's kidnapping one day prior to his dissappearance, how Mion maniacally and insanely laughed?
In Meakashi-hen she derisively and sarcastically laughed the same way to challenge her Oni-Baba to outright confess cynically to the whole Sonozaki clan that she (Shion) loves Satoshi, a Houjou, without caring for her namesake or her family's legacy.

It was her maniacal laughter and how she laughed all open-mouthed, that makes me certain to acknowledge that it was Shion back at Wataganashi-hen during all those freak incidents with Keiichi.

I'm also speculating from Himatsubushi-hen, that actually the perpetrator or murderer planned all those killings with anticipation and expectance needing to make himself or herself of the right conditions (Wataganashi) and resources to pull out the stage of terror. Most likely made use of certain characters with grudges against mainly the Sonozaki family or generally to Hinamizawa as scapegoats to cover his/her motives.
For example, Satoshi who is presumed to have killed his aunt; likely the perpetrator took that murder on advantage or Satoshi unaware became a pawn to the perpetrator's needs to commit that murder.

What purpose to cement the locals phobia and hysteria of Oyashiro-sama deadly curse? A ruse to divert attention to the scapegoats. For the year 1982, it was Satoshi's turn.
It may also proves that the real culprit has been planning all the heinous crimes at least within a year of precedence.

So mainly back at 1978 after Akasaka's visit to Hinamizawa, the culprit started his/her machinations on planning the murders.

Meakashi-hen could cement my speculation that Shion would have had a hand on Wataganashi-hen at the year 1983, according to the culprit's calculations and predictions.

And indeed Shion is experiencing on raw flesh how she's starting to feel bitter and murderous about her own family and those who brought misery to Satoshi.

In her black list would be placed:
- Satoko (obvious, she's the interference between Shion and Satoshi)
- Oryou (Shion's Oni-baba whose wretched stance against the Houjou's have casted ostracism and enmity to Houjou Satoshi)
- Mion (Her elder twin who was more favored by the Sonozaki Estate and seemingly Shion witnessed her sister to be on collaboration with the rest of her wretched relatives)

- Oishii??
Could be, however, I think not. Reserving my opinions until obtaining more data.


Masterful thesis - I think along much the same lines. But I've seen this
show needs triggers for things to happen.

For instance:


Just two examples, there's lots more but I don't have all day.

Keiichi giving the doll to Rena instead of Mion.

-or-

The Sonozaki Family Nail Salon torturing Shion.


It appears that these triggers cause specific individuals to act in a way
contrary to their usual nature.

I think we're actually going to get an idea that there's someone behind
all this who has a very specific purpose and reason for what they're doing.

I've had some ideas about who and why but it's not gelling quite yet.

But many of these events serve as big distractions from something else
I'm feeling.

[Guido]

Masterful thesis - I think along much the same lines. But I've seen this
show needs triggers for things to happen.

For instance:


Just two examples, there's lots more but I don't have all day.

Keiichi giving the doll to Rena instead of Mion.

-or-

The Sonozaki Family Nail Salon torturing Shion.


It appears that these triggers cause specific individuals to act in a way
contrary to their usual nature.

I think we're actually going to get an idea that there's someone behind
all this who has a very specific purpose and reason for what they're doing.

I've had some ideas about who and why but it's not gelling quite yet.

But many of these events serve as big distractions from something else
I'm feeling.

Garten from the memento blog actually gave plausible theories on what you're discussing:
1. Someone is putting a sense of distrust among certain villagers of Hinamizawa to be conflicting with others.
2. The single murders happening at each year are steps, or more properly fuses, engineered to spark a chain reaction that culminates in a grand murder.
3. Seems that this grand murder culminates with Rika's death in the year 1983.

However, what I disagree on what Garten posted was that he/she proposes that Hinamizawa is connected to another dimension or Rika herself has the ability to see beyond dimensions of the same place and reality, explaining her supernatural talent to foretell future events.
That theory sounds campy and without mentioning farfetch'd. I feel if there's something supernatural working through Rika as its avatar, then its possible for me to assume that Rika can read the variable permutations happening at future timelines.

I also think that the master culprit or culprits is endorsed with a grand array of psychology, sociology, and cultural folklore regarding Hinamizawa to better understand the behavior of a close-ranged community that the village is. In that way the master culprit can predict and calculate taking into thought which people are highly vindictive and which can be influenced to act as the decoy or scapegoat.

Now another question arises:
If there's no doubt whatsoever that the murders are cause of human intervention at 100%, then which murders had the real culprit had a hand on and which others were committed by those people holding grudges?

What I'm now positively certain about is that the murder streak did not happen by chance. The master culprit knew what he/she was doing and preparations were planned and made within an established time frame of expectancy and anticipation.

[FatPianoBoy]

That's a lot like what I've been thinking, too. This whole thing plays out too conveniently to be coincidence, and the 'ZOMG Oyashiro-sama is real!!1' idea is just way too convenient - especially for a story that loves confusing people so much.

[Deathkillz]

shion has be pushed over the edge...i mean ripping fingernails off O.o that is going too far...the sickos >.< i think mion saved shion...maybe her punishment would have been death instead...and it was shion who suggested to spare her life instead...

[Killer Loli]

I can't wait for ep 18, demon or not i kinda hope shion gets some serious payback,
but from what i've read maybe not in the next ep.
And from what I've read, couldn't the watanagashi chapter basically be shion's revenge?

[Maximum Burst]

OMG...

I'm in the middle of Ep17, and I just HAD to post about this...The scene with Shion ripping her fingernails off is almost unbearable. I'm hyperventilating just from seeing her rip the first one off...two more? OUCH! I can pretty much stand any kind of gore, but for some reason, ripping off nails, whether finger or toe, just scares the daylights out of me.