Higurashi Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[kj1980]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 18.

Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for RAWs.
Try to keep spoilers from the Game or Manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Game / Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.


Spoiler Tag Usage

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Don't forget to use the spoiler title

....will get you this...

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ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni
Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) before you ask questions!!!

Feel free to utilize the info on the TIPS section (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31732) as a complement to this series.

Feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting.

I am designating Sushi-Y and Freakman to lead the discussion in the correct path without spoilers as they have played the game in advance. I put confidence in them that they will recognize a member has spilled the beans too far if any other members has begun to play the game.

SPOILERS FAR ADVANCED THAN THE CURRENT AIRED ANIME EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS INCLUDES THOSE IN SPOILER TAGS!!!. People tend to peek at spoiler tags; especially when they do not know such tag is meant for the episode, only to find it spilling the beans too far advanced in the game storyline.

[kj1980]

Fortunately, I am in Kansai right now, so I was able to watch this show earlier than usual.

Overall, I see they are taking their time on this chapter to get Meakashi-hen right. Still skipped over some parts from the game, but managed to get the atmosphere correctly.

Shion's awakening was done well, as well as her thoughts towards Satoshi. I still would've wished that the staff used at least one excerpt of dai's "Thanks" and "you," but that doesn't seem likely. Maybe at the end.

Next up, the re-awakening.

[Idle Eve]

*Reserved for later.
Besides, I love Shion anyway. I'm sure I'm going to type something big.
;_; forgive me!

[Guido]

After watching Shion's performance in the previous two episodes...


this one would likely soldify my suspicions that Shion is the Sonozaki twin who actually inherited the demon's blood, and she's working as the vessel to it.

[Rasuberi]

... My favorite episode yet.

[Sushi-Y]

Holy crap, Mion was scary in the end there. ^^;

The only "complaint" worth mentioning in this episode is:
The scene where Mion described to Shion about how Keiichi gave the doll from the toy shop to Rena instead of her. They tried to squeeze a serious, sad scene into a "comedy" segment, and it just didn't work

That, and it's unfortunately they completely removed Keiichi's KOOL marble reality from the anime. ^^;
It's been quite a while since I played Meakashi-hen, so I can't remember the details that well (thankfully :heh: ) anymore, but it looks like they got most of the important segments right.

The stomping sound Shion heard inside the ritual equipments chamber was quite creepy. Game players who played Minagoroshi-hen can only go :heh: at it though.

The absence of the game's music still makes me a little (´・ω・`). "祝祭", "狂気への回廊", "狂気", etc. were all such distinct tracks. A pity.

Next episode, everything hits the fan. :heh:

[Gains]

Meakashi-hen might be my favourite chapter.

I watched it with little to no knowledge of Japanese but I can decipher several things.


-34-tan is back~~~ and she freaked Shion out at the very beginning. I missed Miki Itou's sexy voice.
-Shion went "demon mode" and almost did something nasty to Mion in 1982 (her fingernails haven't healed yet), seeing her Onee's hand stopped her though.
-K1 is almost somewhat a Satoshi clone O_o with the head patting.
-I don't know...should the doll giving talk between sisters thingy be much sadder? After all, in Watanagashi that event is said to made Mion went into madness.
-Shion still loves Satoshi even after the kejime. The music accompanying the scene is heartbreaking....
-Shion is actually afraid to go to the storehouse alone and dragged K1 who's unable to see Rika from a good spot. Perhaps Shion isn't deliberately took K1 to made him suffer the wrath of Oyashiro-sama. Or maybe she did that as a safety net, in case she's found then Mion would not harm K1. She knows that Mion is in love with K1.
-Shion hates Oyashiro-sama. She can't forgive the protecting god because of Satoshi's disappearance (maybe, I can barely understand).
-The stomping sound did happen (I'm too afraid to rewatch Watanagashi 2 so I can confirm it here :heh: )
-Shion overheard Onibaba and Mion talking about Takano...and the phone ends the episode with Mion appearing behind Shion.


I can find out several things from this episode

-Seeing the book that Takano held in the beginning, I can consider that the scrapbook from Watanagashi TIPS belongs to her.
-It's very clear that the notebook belongs to Shion.
-The diary that was never in good condition :heh: belonged to Satoshi.
-Shion is the true demon...we can see that Mion felt so sorry towards her sister that she even cried. I think this points that the one who is crueler inside is Shion and Mion is actually a soft person inside. Her attitude during the kejime is because of her position.
-I still think that the start of the demon reawakening within Shion is because of Mion telling her about Keiichi not giving her the doll. In my mind, Shion would think that Mion is just crying because of that simple thing (compared to her who lost her first love), compare that to when she went ballistic on Satoko, both caused by seemingly simple matter that can be solved easily.

My predictions for the next episodes

-This is the event where Shion will permanently replace Mion. I think either by her survival instinct, the demon kicked in, or knowledge that Mion is the one softer within, she will subdue Mion with the taser, deal with Oryou, and then break Mion into the mentally devastated twin in the cage (Watanagashi 4).
-She hates Oyashiro-sama, but since she believed that the disappearance of Satoshi was caused by humans, she unleashed her wrath on the gosanke (since they are the main holder of Oyashiro-sama's belief). This is the arc where the gosanke actually fall (without the poison gas effect).
-Satoko will fall victim because of Rika's arrival to borrow the soy sauce. Shion would think that this is a wonderful chance to unleash her wrath without Satoshi.
-Events of Meakashi will be the same as in Watanagashi.
-She knows that Rena and K1 would prevent her from showing her nonexistant tattoo with psychology, because she did not hesitate at all during the scene.
-Her inability to torture K1 might be because he acts like Satoshi, friends over self. She might also thought of Satoshi's possible torture last year. During the midnight stabbing and the hospital hammering she might have lost it completely though.
-After tasering K1, Shion will kill Mion by throwing her to the well. I might be stretching it but it is possible that Shion will steal Mion's body and used it as her alibi to stab K1. I don't know much about the time when K1 is stabbed and "Shion" commiting suicide so this is not certain.
-The blood in the hospital is possibly self inflicted, if Mion's body has stopped dripping blood, then she might injure herself and smeared fresh blood to provide the necessary alibi, since twins have the same blood type (I think).

Actually, why is Akane still in the Sonozaki house if she's already disowned? (considering that Mion is the executioner of the Sonozaki) and what caused it (the disowning)?

[Matrim]

Talk about a cliffhanger... :) I loved the atmosphere, didn't understand a lot from what was said but still enjoyed every second. Too bad I will probably curse myself for not waiting for the sub but the temptation was too great.

So many impressive scenes - Takano suprising and scaring the crap out of Shion in the beginning, Shion stopping her assault on Mion after seeing her missing nails, Shion hearing the noises in the warehouse and of course the cliffhanger scene in thje end. Seems like they are really taking their tiem to show the events properly and to develop Shion's character well.

[SpaceDrake]

As seems usual, the fansubbers are being a bit slow with this one. KJ and crew may want to leave the thread up a bit beyond the airing of Ep.19.

(Has anyone else noticed how erratic the fansubbing for Higurashi can be? Wind can barely keep up due to, as I understand it, constant staffing problems and the other two interested groups haven't kept pace at all. It would seem the Curse of Oyashiro-sama extends even to fansubs, quasi-piratical otaku that we are. ;) )

[Freakman]

As a member of Wind, I would like to disagree. We now sub most episodes in under a week.
[Edit for unnecessary harshness]

[SpaceDrake]

Er, *cough*.

Sorry, that wasn't a direct insult to Wind, more a (friendly! FRIENDLY!) comment on the "uneven" release schedule. Soemtimes you guys release on Fridays, sometimes Saturdays, sometimes after the next episode's been released...

Bah, I seem to have committed a faux pas again. Makes my new avatar kind of appropriate, though. ;)

[Sir Alex]

Well, you're right about the curse of Oyashiro-sama eating all our translators. Despite that I think we've done pretty well keeping up. Releases should be on Sundays or Mondays, depending.

[LostBlue]

Er, *cough*.

Sorry, that wasn't a direct insult to Wind, more a (friendly! FRIENDLY!) comment on the "uneven" release schedule. Soemtimes you guys release on Fridays, sometimes Saturdays, sometimes after the next episode's been released...

Bah, I seem to have committed a faux pas again. Makes my new avatar kind of appropriate, though. ;)

As the TL of WindFS for Higurashi from EP 14+ I have to apologize for the erratic scheduling. I usually don't watch and TL the episode until the weekends due to my schedule. So Sir Alex, Freakman and crew don't get to do anything until I watch the EP.

Also, if anyone has any critique of the translation feel free to direct it at me. I will welcome it as I don't mind improving overall the quality. :)

As for this EP, I finally watched it and HOLY CRAP that Saiguden scene is much more scarier than I imagined. Even tho, the anime skipped some minor parts here and there throughout Meakashi, overall, I'm very satisfied with how they did it thus far... I hope I didn't jinx it for the best two parts in the up coming episodes... I'm seriously going to cry if the cut out the monologue for the last EP for this chapter.

Also another note, Shion is right. The Smiling -> Crying moe~ model is too evil. 100 points.

[SpaceDrake]

<3, LostBlue, get it done when you can. Quality > speed.

Though do listen for the sound of the footsteps... pita pita, pata pata... ;)

[Shiosai]

Great episode. A lot of this arc makes sense now but there is still a ton that needs explaining:
1. Why is Rika going to stab her brains out in front of Mion/Shion
2. Why does it appear that the people who get murdered are sighted again. As Oishi puts it, the dead are walking around too much in this case.
3. Where is Satoshi? If Mion really thinks murder is a terrible thing and had nothing to do with his disappearance, where did he go?

I'm still not sure I believe Shion is the culprit in this case.

[Deathkillz]

its out already? O.o or is it just the raw? anyway its gona be a bomb seeing how shion is gona get her revernge...i cnt w8 :D

[Shinova]

Watanagashi-hen and Meakashi-hen aren't exact same retellings, are they? I ask that cause some of the events play a little differently. I don't think Keiichi ever 'saved' Shion from gangs in Watanagashi, nor did the two approach Tomitake and Takano directly when they snuck into the shrine.


One thing's for sure: it was Shion that led Keiichi into the shrine, if that event is no different from the one in Watanagashi. This mean's that anywhere from a little to a lot of my "super-theory" way back in episode 8 is plain wrong. :p

[Matrim]

I am pretty sure that the answer arc and the question arc show the same sequence of events. I think it's great the anime wastes no time showing again many scenes from Watanagashi, this time from Shion's PoV, but just mentions the things the viewers already know.

So Takano gave her notebook to Shion, one year later it seemed Shion has lost interest in the mystery but Takano persevered and told her about the breaking in. Why? Sure, she should have known Shion doesn't exactly get along with her family but what was the use of taking her to the warehouse? Maybe Takano actually planned Shion's "insanity" (hearing strange noises and so on) and counted on her to lose it and kill a few Sonozakis? Way too complicated scenario, yes, but I have begun to expect pretty much everything from Takano.
Right now, the obvious scenarios seems to be Shion overpowering Mion and taking her vendeta with the Three Great Families to the extreme. But since this is Higurashi, what is obvious is rarely right. ;)

[Killer Loli]

This episode was great the next is going to b even better :D
all i can say is things are going to get out of hand

[Keriaku]

Maybe I missed something, but why does the whole town know about Shion now? Just because she showed her distinction, she's allowed to exist?

[Kevs]

Well Mion did say that she showed her distinction so that she would forgive Satoshi and Shion

[Prinkster]

Shion made a big deal out of the fact that she wasn't Mion just before the distinction. After Ooishi had checked the family records, hiding Shion's existence even by killing her would not do much good.

I'm guessing the distinction is simply a punishment Shion endures for her actions.

Still, great episode. I really liked the characterization of Mion that came out -
I mean, we already saw Shion get her nails yanked out, so we have a pretty good idea of how painful it is...Mion did that for her sister?

Someone posted a theory about Mion beggining with the Great Houses to spare Shion and Satoshi, and the lack of her fingernails seems to make this a lot more plausible. The only thing - Mion honestly didn't seem to know what happened to Satoshi. What's up with that?

[Wanderer]

All I can say is that I am absolutely shocked at how wrong this makes me. I literally am not sure that I believe this outcome so far.

So everyone, what do you think? Different viewpoint of the exact same set of events, or different viewpoint and a (maybe only slightly) different set of events?

[Prinkster]

All I can say is that I am absolutely shocked at how wrong this makes me. I literally am not sure that I believe this outcome so far.

So everyone, what do you think? Different viewpoint of the exact same set of events, or different viewpoint and a (maybe only slightly) different set of events?

That's tough, because we've already exposed to the possibility that Keiichi is not a reliable narrator (he's crazy?). I'm going with different viewpoint of the exact same set of events.

So far, the only things that don't quite square up are the endings. Maybe they'll somehow coincide. (After all, the scene with Sh/Mion killing him in the hospital could very easily have happened after the evil swamp gas of doom consumes the rest of the town - that just leaves us to explain how Keiichi dies in the phone booth and the hospital. o_o)

[LostBlue]

two things:
Shion is allowed to exists after the Distinction. That's why she can now attend family gatherings as well. Although she is under the custody of her parents she does live half the time in that apartment.

Meakashi and Watanagashi hen however similar aren't the same story. Although most of the events are similar. I'm hoping Studio Deen purposely skipped the one of the scariest part of Watanagashi Hen to be put in this arc. Specifically, the next EP ^^ カチャ　つー　つー

[Darkside]

Creepy episode, I liked how they are developing Shion's character. I especially liked this episode, because Kira is finally back after quite some time >.<

[solwyvern]

Well, great episode! Especially the ending part and the Rena part.

Everything from Watanagishi-hen is clearing up little by little.
Especially the things about Oyashiro-sama, and the way he watches over you and shadows you. (man, that was creepy).

There is only one thing I'm not liking. -It's how fast the story moves. It seems to gap weeks, sometimes the whole year, jumping from one part of the timeline to the next. (And I wanted some to see more filler/happy side episodes, just like the very first episode of Higurashi =( )
The whole arcs lately seem to be very story-focused.

Another dissapointing thing is body proportion.
http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/3182/vlcsnap428657lf5.th.png (http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap428657lf5.png)
wth? Shion almost looks lika chicken. =x
seriously, quality on Deen's part, worries me... m(_ _ !!!)m
(╥_─)

Glad to see Keichi back in scene, too. Problem is, he didn't do much. T_T

Lastly, personal thanks to Lost-Blue, and the rest of the [WinD] crew for the sub.

[rogueblade]

wow, that was a great episode! Finally got a pretty solid answer for the shrine incident, which was driving me nuts till now.
And yay for Keiichi!

Side note: Thanks to the entire WinD crew for the subbing!

[Vicke]

Yeah great episode. But I still dont see why Shion/Mion from Watanagashi-hen blames Kei-chan for triggering the awakening of the demon in Shion/Mion because he didnt give Mion the doll. And what is up with Kei-chan's imitating of Satoshi-kun, it has happened so many times now that it cant be a coincident.

[Shiroth]

Is about time.. that we got the return of Keiichi. ^__^

So everything is starting to make sense now, well, at least the part about the curse and everything that surrounds it - the whole 'Where's Satoshi' is something still i'm not 100% sure about, and i have a feeling i'll be like that even after the anime has finished.

Pretty upsetting really. I just want Shion & Satoshi to at least be able to spend five minutes together.. ;_;

[aliensporebomb]

What we seem to be seeing, is a repeating cycle of events with a
number of possible permutations playing themselves out over and
over again.

Theory:



This episode especially was showing it:
-the resemblence between K1 and Satoshi cannot be a coincidence,
it is intentional and I suspect the reason for Satoshi's "vanishing"
is also another question where the answer might be more complex
than it initially seems.

-repeating cycle:
-Sonizaki sister in danger (Shion)
-Thugs threaten
-K1 intervenes with children calling townsfolk in case more are needed,
in the previous cycle Shion herself (or was it Mion?) called the townspeople.
-Danger averted, head patted, all is well.

I realize this series is based on a game with multiple outcomes but I've a thought:

We see the same sequences with different outcomes again and again.

What if this, for the sake of it being a television series has this in mind:

Could this be a dream that one of the characters (maybe one
of the sisters, K1 or Satoshi) is having and it keeps repeating around
and around until a happy outcome is found? But until that time it's
doom and gloom city?



And then there's this to think about:


In this episode there was a segment where Shion said "Satoshi-kun,
so that's where you've been". I'm not sure if she actually saw him,
she either could be gradually going a bit insane or she's gained
the ability (thru the demon blood coursing thru her veins) to
perceive things normal humans can't.

Which makes no sense at all because others in the village who had
no demon blood connection also perceived footsteps among other
things.

And more on demon blood:
And I'm also thinking that the whole demon blood thing might be an
hoax, initially for the ruling class in that town (and some who may
have had a taste for cannabalism) to maintain ruling power over
the town - you wouldn't dare go up against someone with
supernatural powers right? The church has done this successfully
for centuries. Why not a township in early Japan? Stranger things
have happened.

No offense to churchgoers meant.



My thoughts on Satoshi and his dissappearance:



With the doll he wanted to buy unavailable, he may have blown
town as fast as he possibly could.

He likely felt he let his sister down by not getting her what she
needed to make life bearable and with his guardians being
abusive and with him hearing the footsteps that others have
heard he probably thought he was next on the list of people
to get killed so he got out of town as quickly and quietly as he
could using the money he saved for the stuffed toy as a way
of procuring passage. He could be anywhere in Japan
working quietly until he can find a way to someday return.



Unless:


The grand old matron of the Sonozaki family had him dropped into
the swamp without her granddaughters knowledge to get rid of
what she perceived as a problem that wasn't going to go away.

That way Shion's crush for an enemy of the family is addressed,
there's one less of those pesky enemies around and order is
maintained, cover maintained and secrets kept.



Also - some thoughts on Mion:


Here we see she's really the soft touch and her tomboy-ishness
is really a big act. She's a total cutiepie when in the non-tomboy
mode too. We're on to you Mion! Your sister is the hardcase.

She felt so bad about disguring her sisters hands that she did the
same thing to herself as a way of showing distinction - she respected
the fact that the old guard in her family believed Satoshi's family was
the "enemy" but she also wanted to make clear that she believed her
sister had the right to love who she wanted.

The grand matron said she would think about sparing Satoshi but
events transpired that may or may not implicate the old guard in that
family doing the deed and not letting Mion know. She seemed truly
bothered that not only did her Shion's hand get tortured but she lost
someone she cared for. Probably forever.

Shion in her rage couldn't believe it and was stopped dead in her
tracks when she saw her sisters hand.

This unexpected kindness was given a weird turn when Shion was
flirting relentlessly with K1 partially because she wanted to see
what her sister would do (teasing her) and partially because she
saw the Satoshi in K1 and likes him and partially because she's
feeling guilty over Satoshi's loss and can't stay away from forbidden
fruit. The scene where Mion was effusing over K1 was funny until
she went into "but he gave Rena that doll" and "wanting to start
over". Yipes. They both don't realize that K1 is kind of clueless
and would need some kind of HINT to him that they're interested.

It was HILARIOUS to see Mion's jealous side - geez K1, give
the girl a break and give her some flowers or something before she
has you skewered on a stake somewhere in town.

"Sprinkle salt on the ground, set the traps" - I was laughing like
an idiot over that.




And one last thought:
All of the killings that we are aware in this entire series of were
all done in a conventional manner with no signs of supernatural
power involved except the dissapearances and nobody really
knows what happened there.

My guess - lots of bones in the bottom of the swamp, and lots of
secrets in the town.

[Matrim]

Meakashi and Watanagashi hen however similar aren't the same story. Although most of the events are similar.

What? Wasn't the whole point of the answer arc to show the same sequence of events from the viewpoint of another character? I am so confused now... If it's not the same story the resemblance is uncanny, a lot bigger that the similarity between Onikakushi and Watanaghi for instance.

[kj1980]

What? Wasn't the whole point of the answer arc to show the same sequence of events from the viewpoint of another character? I am so confused now... If it's not the same story the resemblance is uncanny, a lot bigger that the similarity between Onikakushi and Watanaghi for instance.

It's just like watching the event unfold from a different perspective - it gives you more insight and clarity rather than an one-sided view.

[Keriaku]

It's just like watching the event unfold from a different perspective - it gives you more insight and clarity rather than an one-sided view.

So they are the exact same events?

[Wanderer]

Meakashi and Watanagashi hen however similar aren't the same story. Although most of the events are similar.

It's just like watching the event unfold from a different perspective - it gives you more insight and clarity rather than an one-sided view.

:confused: So which is it?

[LostBlue]

the answer is.... both ^^
Every chapter is its own possiblity in the world of Higurashi. And by connecting the dots from chapter to chapter you'll start seeing the real picture. Although everything isn't revealed until Minagoroshi Hen (the true answer). Just like the first three, you collect and analyze what you know. From Himatsubushi ~ Minagoroshi, K1 has stepped down as the pt of view where the story is told. Actually, all those chapters are told from different characters pt of view. Don't know about chp 08 yet since it's not out tho.

But there is one thing that bothers me from Watanagashi which wasn't suppose to happen in that arc, but I guess it's not going to matter in the end with the anime.

[Wanderer]

But there is one thing that bothers me from Watanagashi which wasn't suppose to happen in that arc, but I guess it's not going to matter in the end with the anime.

This is fun- I'm guessing it is the Rika suicide scene.

[Killer Loli]

the answer is.... both ^^
Every chapter is its own possiblity in the world of Higurashi. And by connecting the dots from chapter to chapter you'll start seeing the real picture. Although everything isn't revealed until Minagoroshi Hen (the true answer). Just like the first three, you collect and analyze what you know. From Himatsubushi ~ Minagoroshi, K1 has stepped down as the pt of view where the story is told. Actually, all those chapters are told from different characters pt of view. Don't know about chp 08 yet since it's not out tho.

But there is one thing that bothers me from Watanagashi which wasn't suppose to happen in that arc, but I guess it's not going to matter in the end with the anime.

The series isn't going to cover Minagoroshi Hen will it?


P.S. i hope they portray K1 as well as they did in watanagashi in the next meakashi ep, he really was a strong, super cool person


P.S.S much respect for WinD crew excellent job

[thundrakkon]

I don't know if this has been discussed or if I missed it somehow, but why does Shion get in trouble for associating with Satoshi, but Mion does not for befriending Satoko?

[aliensporebomb]

I thought about that and my suspicion is that due to their
proximity in school there is no way to avoid her so might as
well be friendly to keep the peace. Also with the Sonozaki
family aware of her abuse they might have felt that is
punishment enough.

Shions' offense was that if there was an eventual union
between herself and Satoshi there might be children which
would be an offense to Sonozaki's far and wide I suspect.

Another thing:

Great moments in this one beyond the obvious big plot:


12:34 worried frustrated mion voicing her thoughts thru a cloth!
12:51 overly smiley shion (yes, obvious kawaii moment)
12:55 oh my god! weeping shion - perfect.
13:12 angry jealous mion!
14:22 assertive in control shion!
14:25 the mion that cracked me up - that VOICE! Oh man...

and

14:47 K1 thanking Shion for the walk arm-in-arm with Mion witnessing?
Poor Mion.

[BakaOnna]

That was an excellent episode. The footsteps were really freaky, esp. when Shion was in the Shrine and at the last few minutes of the episode. I think this episode had the same creepy aura as Onikakushi-hen, which I still think is the scariest arc. But one question, did Studio Deen purposely leave out the footsteps in the questions arc, since we've never seen Keiichi experience them in the anime, but it's in the TIPS and stuff? I think if they left the footsteps in, it'll be 5x as scary as it was. Anyway, with this episode, I can basically piece together the rest of Watanagashi-hen. On a final note, yay! Kei-chan is back!

[Alu]

Indeed a great episode :D

Much like following the previous one, slowly giving us answers and connections to the "why's" and "how's" of certain events in Watanagashi-hen.
The information given so far in Meakashi-hen has clearly given light to alot of doubts, and I have a feeling the best is still to come ;)

Now to review the episode.., time for spoil-tags :heh:

The first thing that I have to stand out was that, on this episode we finaly saw on how the connection between Shion & Keiichi started.., which then lead to the events we saw in Watanagashi-hen.

This to me was a extreamly important part of the episode.., since as we remember.., the first time we saw Shion was she met with Keiichi at Angel Mort, and we then had no idea that she had been rescued by Keiichi before, the exact same way as she was by Satoshi-kun. Which finaly explains her attitude towards Keiichi as kind of embarrased when we first saw her on Watanagashi-hen.

Her first meeting with Keiichi under the same circustances as she met Satoshi also is extreamly important for how I belive Shion will develop as we saw and what happened after.

This because.., and we saw parts of this on this episode and on her monologues aswell, Shion not only begins to see Satoshi in Keiichi, but also to see herself in her sister, or to wish for such would be better said..., as in.., there is nothing rong with Mion beeing with Keiichi.., as on the contrary she could not be with Satoshi.
And all of this envy, jealousy and hatred for what the Sonozaki did will eventualy lead to the reasons as to what we saw happening to Mion, Keiichi and everyone else as we saw in Watanagashi.

Shion still loves Satoshi.., and she clearly finds the entire situation to be unfair.., specialy after all she went through.
What we will see in the next episode hopefully will be the trigger as in how or what finaly made her "snap" or awakened the dormant demon inside :)

We also saw that a couple of things that we first thought Shion was only doing with Keiichi to make Mion envious; not that this wasn't the reason aswell but.., they had some other foundations to it.

Clearly the holding hands part when Keiichi was with Shion and then ran into Mion was a mistake.., this because Shion only did such because Keiichi reminded her of Satoshi-kun.

And the situation by the festival was also Satoshi related.., for Shion's main interest was to investigate the storage-house for clues regarding him.., she mostely only decided to take Keiichi because she thought if they got caught.., Mion then would let them go easy ^^

I belive Shion better then anyone understands what is like to love someone and wanting to be happy with that someone.
Thus when Mion told her what happened with the doll she clearly understod that Mion loved him very much.

Thing is.., that love is possible.., while her's was denied.., which clearly the envy I previously stated on behalf of Shion.., even though she does not wish to do such as we saw in her monologues.

This doll part was also another good answer to alot of speculations, we finaly can comprove that Mion does love Keiichi.., and that she felt terrible for him not seeing her as "that type" of girl.., and went and gaved the doll to Rena.. :(

Speaking of Keiichi now..., its unbelivable how he even more and more after what we all had seen can resemble Satoshi.., specialy now in Shion's eyes..
Its this resemblence though will probably kept Shion from performing a Watanagashi special on him.., as in when she stoped and said "why can't I do it.."
However.., I can't help to wonder what realy happened to Satoshi..

We are absolutly sure now that judging by the last episode he was the one who killed his aunt.., and most probably that the dead drug-addict was a set-up by the Sonozaki family.

Thing is.., and Mion even "showed distinction" for this as we saw.., Satoshi was suposed to have been left alone.
However.., he still dissapeared..

We are left with 2 choices on this then...

One is.., Mion's "distinction" served no purpose for the Sonozaki had already decided Satoshi's fate, which would bring us to the possibility that Oiishi-san's speculation regarding what happened to him which he told Shion to be true.

Or the other was that he realy was.. "demoned away".

But currently as what we have been seeing..., to me Oyashiro-sama's curse seems more and more to have "some" true reason on all of this.., and its not just fiction as I first thought.

First we get the footsteps which are only heard by those who are witnessing the forewarming of the curse..., at the begining I belived this to just be in the character's mind.., but then when Rena told Shion about them and clearly stated that she had felt them too, was too much to be a coincidence.

This proves that Rena felt them, we saw Keiichi feel them aswell.., and now Shion.
Adding this to what we saw in Rika's premonitons.., something un-natural is definitly taking place.

Hopefully by the end of the last arc we will come to a good conclusion regarding both the un-natural and reason aspects.., or as I hope.., in which they will complement each other.

Anyway, I just can't wait for the next episode :D

Ah.., one last thing.., is it possible that..
When Takano met with Shion on the library and handed her her manuals on the Watanagashi Ritual.., Shion then used these to learn how to do the Watanagashi on.. Satoko ?

As I remember on Watanagashi-hen she said to Keiichi that she had performed the Watanagashi flawlessly..; using Takano's notes would explain how she was able to pull this off.


Thanks for reading :)

[Eric the Grey]

<3, LostBlue, get it done when you can. Quality > speed.

I agree. We'll be here waiting.. impatiently, but we’ll be waiting. :D

Oh, and thanks for doing the sub. You guys (the WIND crew) are great!

All I can say is that I am absolutely shocked at how wrong this makes me. I literally am not sure that I believe this outcome so far.

So everyone, what do you think? Different viewpoint of the exact same set of events, or different viewpoint and a (maybe only slightly) different set of events?

I believe it is different viewpoints, all clouded by individual experience and possibly outside influence. I do not believe that the events actually happened the way any of the various chapters have shown. Because each is from a slightly different viewpoint, they are colored by something else.

I am leaning towards swamp gas with some form of psychedelic or narcotic effect on the people who live in Himazawa. This would be the same swamp gas that eventually bubbles up and kills most of the people in town. This would be the reason for the various different views of the events that led up to the finale (the death of the town). The people affected by said gas experience a somewhat colored view of events causing them to act out of character (ie: taking a baseball bat and chasing down someone in the forest...).

Keiichi also mentions a taste to the air when he comes to Himazawa the first time. “I learned for the first time that air has a taste.” Perhaps this is simply something that those who live there for a long time don’t notice any more.

As far as this episode goes, I loved it. It had a slightly creepy feel to it, and made a lot of fuzzy things clearer. I can’t wait for the next one to see how it plays out.



:cool: Eric the Grey

[Sinestra]

great episode i got a lot of my questions answered in this one. Some key elements are coming together espcially about Keiichi and Satoshi.

Watching Shion try to strangle the living hell out of Mion was a surprise to me another one i didnt see coming. Its intresting how Mion and her grandmother had found out so quickly that they had entered the shrine. I did enjoy watching Mion's cute side with her trying to get Keiichi to notice her during this conversation they looked and sounded like normal sisters. I now do think that both sisters did have a thing for Keiichi but for diffrent reasons. the whole foot steps behind you thing really freaked me the hell out that so damn creepy man this series is messed up i love it
Shion/since he reminded her of Satoshi
Mion/ likes for who he is

I did notice something really intresting. There have been a lot of theroies over who called Keiichi back in the other chapter . Also a lot of us kept thinking that the twins were switching places. Well in episode 18 Mion has three of her nails ripped out too just like Shion did. With this done there really is no way to tell them apart Shion could kill someone while dressed like her sister. At this point in time the only way to tell them apart was Shions busted nails (which she should not be picking at by the way) Does anyone else have a speculations on this? cause this would also explaini how Mion knew so much about what Keiichi did while she was pretending to be her sister. Also i think that someone is finally going to get the tazer in the next one episode. I do think that all the chapters do tie into one another just diffrent view points like a few others have stated, maybe the stories are told out of order but if you watched them in the right order everything would make senese im just guessing though

[Cardiac Glycoside]

I have a really fscked-up theory--

What if K1 IS Satoshi?

[Shiosai]

but he's not

[Cardiac Glycoside]

Oh you know how this anime works. It doesn't.



For all we know, maybe the blue-haired teacher is the one behind all the murders.

[LostBlue]

For all we know, maybe the blue-haired teacher is the one behind all the murders.

-- The Clue Game --
The culprit: Ciel-err-Rumiko sensei
The scene of the crime: the curry garden
The murder weapon: the spoon
The accomplice in crime: Type-moon. :p

[Deathkillz]

just watched it...and im totally confused to wheather mion is good or bad >.< shion on the other hand is a love tragity...i feel for her :( in the name of love she had to suffer and K1 is getting the demon side of her out...
so many things have been sed already i dnt even know wht to say anymore :heh:

[FatPianoBoy]

Takano did it. No one that creepy could be innocent. I almost threw my fork (I was eating a burrito) when she popped up at the library :upset:
Heck, she still startled me the second time I watched it. Scary woman, she is.
And I wanna read that notebook.

Interesting point: Oryou and Mion were talking about Takano and Tomitake going into the shrine, but we didn't hear anything about Shion and K1. Doesn't mean they don't know, but they may not.
Also, Oryou talked about them angering Oyashiro-sama. I found this really odd. Why would she speak about Oyashiro-sama like that in private if it was just a scapegoat? There's no reason for her to fool Mion, since Mion would likely know whether it was real or not. Hmm...

[Alu]

just watched it...and im totally confused to wheather mion is good or bad >.<

Mion is Definitly NOT bad...
I understand how you got this idea though.., after the display of coldness we saw in her in the last episode.., but understand this.., she "had" to do that; as in.., she has to act in the way she did.

As to make clear to Oni-baba and the rest present in the room that she was able to act as the Lead Head of the Sonozaki in a situation such as that.., but also and mostely to shorten the entire process; as it to be less painfull for Shion.

From the moment Shion declared her love for Satoshi and after all she had done.., clearly she had to take some sort of penalty.., otherwhise those who where involved in the story like Kasai for example would probably face a much greater punishment..

So as to make Shion realise this Mion toke upon herself the burden to be the one who would act as the excutioner sort of speak.., she knew that Shion would not be able to leave there until some sort of punishment was given.., thus she went straight away and did what she had too..., even though she inside was absolutly against it.., but she knew it had to be done.

In fact.. we even see her vacilate when Shion is unable to perform the last distinction.., as in she tries to calm her down.

And then like we saw in this episode.., Mion herself too then also toke the distinction for Oni-baba in order for her to leave Satoshi alone.
But mostely Mion did this aswell.., because like she herself said.., it was unfair that only Shion had to go through that.., when they are both sisters.

Mion in fact ends up to be the person who probably suffers the most in Wataganashi-hen / Meakashi-hen.

She suffers for having seen Shion been put through much pain.., she suffers for having gone through the same punishment as Shion, she suffers when Keiichi doesn't view her as "that type" of girl even though she loves him so, she suffers when she heards that Keiichi and Shion went into the storage house; and in the end.. well.., after not only Shion takes her place but she imprisions her and will unleash all of her anger at her.
And is if at that wasn't enough.., when Keiichi arrives.., he mistakes her for Shion..

I belive the last part regarding on how Shion after "awakening" unleashed all the hatred and blamed everything on Mion could have been avoided if only... Mion had not acted as cold as she did previously..
But allass and this is where the irony lies.., Shion could not see that Mion inside did not wish to do as such.., and she above all.., view her as an equal.

Both stories are extreamly tragic.., and its what makes it all so perfect.., and why I so much love Mion & Shion :)

[Shiosai]

I like Mion too but I wouldn't call her completely innocent here. She tipped off Oni-baba about Shion's love for Satoshi and it seems likely she was indirectly involved in the last few "Curse of Oyashiro" murders.

They both have a few screws loose.

[Matrim]

Takano did it. No one that creepy could be innocent. I almost threw my fork (I was eating a burrito) when she popped up at the library
Heck, she still startled me the second time I watched it. Scary woman, she is.

Wow, I thought I was the only one who got scared of Takano not once but a few times. :) I have been saying it before but I will reiterate - Takano's seiyuu's doing such a masterful job. She just sounds as if she knows every damned secret in the world and the more gruesome they are, the more happy she gets.

Interesting point: Oryou and Mion were talking about Takano and Tomitake going into the shrine, but we didn't hear anything about Shion and K1. Doesn't mean they don't know, but they may not.

Well, Oryou did mention some young guy but since Oryou is so old we can't say whether she meant K1 or Tomitake. Anyway, in Watanagashi-hen on the next day (or maybe a bit later?) the whole village population seemed to know about the four of them breaking in.

Also, Oryou talked about them angering Oyashiro-sama. I found this really odd. Why would she speak about Oyashiro-sama like that in private if it was just a scapegoat? There's no reason for her to fool Mion, since Mion would likely know whether it was real or not. Hmm...

Well, even if the Sonozakis are behind the murders that does not necessarily mean Oryou does not believe that what she does would please Oyashiro-sama. Furthermore, maybe they are just used of saying that as some sort of euphemism for the murders that they commit and use it even in private. And Mion doesn't seem to know everything - for instance she seems to be kept in the dark about Satoshi's fate.

Come to think of it, the sudden encounter between the twins in the end of the episode might not be as decisive as I first thought. We had a cliffhanger in the end of episode three of Onikakushi-hen but the really dramatic events were not in the begining of the fourth episode. And the chilling cliffhanger in Tatarigoroshi with Takano asking K1 whether he buried the body well (I get goosebumps just thinknig of that scene) was followed by a rather cryptic Takano behavious afterwards. And it seems we will have three (or at laeast two) more Meakashi episodes, if one of the sisters imprison the latter now what's going to fill those episodes, I wonder?

Mion is Definitly NOT bad...

I wouldn't be that certain in that. We still don't know which of the twins is going to snap and go mad (or at least kill a few people while not being mad). Shion now looks a bit too obvious a choice which makes me hodl my judgement for the tiem being.

[Alu]

I wouldn't be that certain in that. We still don't know which of the twins is going to snap and go mad (or at least kill a few people while not being mad)

Its indeed too obvious now that is Shion who will do the switch.., we even saw her dragging Mion after having used the shock thingy (forgot its name^^) in the begining of the first episode of Meakashi-hen.

Plus.. all the pieces of the puzzle are set and its up to Shion to make everything fall into place (in what relates to Watanagashi-hen).., this beeing said.. I am absolutly positive that she will be the one to do the switch and pass on as Mion as we saw in the last episodes of Watanagashi-hen.

I had suspected such ever since that arc ended.., I mean.. the hints alone that she gives where already a Huge lead...; as when she speaks with Keiichi as she is leading him down the old dungeon.., she often menciones "now I see why Mion liked you", etc.

Anyway.., you will see for yourself on the next episode.., but may oyashiro-sama's curse strike me down where I stand if I am rong in this :heh:

*tap*

*tap**tap**tap**tap**tap**tap**tap**tap*

[Matrim]

Well, when Watanagashi-hen ended I was convinced that Shion was the bad twin, now when everything seems to point to her I am oddly less convinced. Answer arc or not, I am still expecting major plot twists. ;)

[FatPianoBoy]

Well, when Watanagashi-hen ended I was convinced that Shion was the bad twin, now when everything seems to point to her I am oddly less convinced. Answer arc or not, I am still expecting major plot twists. ;)

I don't think either of them was a "bad twin." I think something happened and one of them just snapped; like when Shion strangled Mion, but on a much deeper level.

[Darklightz]

Wow,this epsiode answers so many question while creating more much mystery.

I'm starting to lean towards the hallucinating gas theory.After all,by the time Keichii comes to Hinamizawa everyone is already quite insane,as he slowly becomes crazy too.

Mion...I just can't figure her out.One second she'd begging Obaba to let Shion alone and taking the ritual of distinction herself for it,the next she's discussing what most likely is Oyashira's punishment.Maybe personality discorders are genetic in the Sonozaki family?

Also I'd give a lot to tap into Hinamizwa's information network.Everytime someone does something,a completely unrelated character already knows about it.

I'm also getting curious to what it is Takano and Tomitake really want.If they know the gory story of torture why are they going so far as breaking the law to investigate?Are they secret agents trying to unfold the mysterious murder series?

[FatPianoBoy]

I'm starting to lean towards the hallucinating gas theory.After all,by the time Keichii comes to Hinamizawa everyone is already quite insane,as he slowly becomes crazy too.


I'm beginning to open to it as well, but I still think that even that's a bit too easy.


Mion...I just can't figure her out.One second she'd begging Obaba to let Shion alone and taking the ritual of distinction herself for it,the next she's discussing what most likely is Oyashira's punishment.Maybe personality discorders are genetic in the Sonozaki family?


Mion is torn in half. She has to act responsibly as the heir of the Sonozaki house whilst still being Shion's sister. These last two episodes really hit home just how hard that must be, especially considering the view of Shion's existence according to family tradition.


Also I'd give a tap into Hinamizwa's information network.Everytime someone does something,a completely unrelated character already knows about it.


I know what you mean :heh:
Although in my mind, that means that they're not as unrelated as they seem ;)


I'm also getting curious to what it is Takano and Tomitake really want.If they know the gory story of why are they going so far as breaking the law to investigate?Are they secret agents trying to unfold the mysterious series?

That's close to what I'm thinking, but I think their true purpose goes way beyond the killings. I've pointed out several times that Tomitake doesn't strike me as the photography type, and Takano seems to know way too much about everything in general (how many people know what's really in the storehouse?) to simply be curious about the town.

[Matrim]

I don't think either of them was a "bad twin." I think something happened and one of them just snapped; like when Shion strangled Mion, but on a much deeper level.

Well, saying "evil" or "bad" is simply the shorter way of putting it, so I am using it. :heh:
Tomitake is quite obviously not a simple photographer. I think that Akasaka's lie that he had come to the village to take great photographs of the scenery was a hint for that. Rika even said that he was Tomitake number 2. :heh: Come to think of it that means Tomitake has visited Hinamizawa even before the murders started. Or maybe this was Rika seeing the future again? ;)

[Eleutheria]

That, and it's unfortunately they completely removed Keiichi's KOOL marble reality from the anime. ^^;


I finally understand what you mean by this after more than half a year. It's a damn pity the game didn't allow me to 回想する...