View Full Version : Higurashi Episode 19 Discussion / Poll
Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 19.
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Wow I decided to check out the RAW cause the last episode was pretty cliffhanger.
I know very little japanese, but enough to have a really basic understanding.
So it seems like the switching theory is correct, and Shion does it pretty well
I couldn't decipher the conversation parts though, hope those will be interesting. I thought that Meakashi-hen would end at this ep, but there seems to be a part 5 as stated in the preview for the next ep.
Just watched the sub, man Keichi is terrible at acting.
HOLY SHI-
(あまりのショックで感想が日本語になってる)
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/8165/000352226wn2.th.jpg (http://img164.imageshack.us/my.php?image=000352226wn2.jpg)
む、胸ががが！
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/2981/000429053vh0.th.jpg (http://img116.imageshack.us/my.php?image=000429053vh0.jpg)
し、詩音の顔が大変なことに！すごい！怖すぎて逆に吹いた！
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/223/000459000ct8.th.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=000459000ct8.jpg)
これはまたエロいね
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/7530/001302259rw6.th.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=001302259rw6.jpg)
おじちゃん逃げて！
...This episode sure is filled with "shocking images". :heh:
I'm glad(?) they didn't get too gruesome with Oryou-san, although it's not over yet.
In a way, they did such a great job portraying Shion's behaviors I totally don't mind (forgot) what plot they might have skipped or messed up on. :heh:
No, really, the screenplay totally made up for any shortcomings they might have had in the script department in this episode.
The important parts, including the exchanges between Mion and Shion, as well as Shion and Kimiyoshi-san were all nicely reproduced. The last part with Kimiyoshi-san was particularly important:
Because his words are what really pushed Shion over the edge
so it was great to see it done right.
Now then, for next episode... we might finally get to see Satoko and Rika's (dis)appearance... And the scene that was forever burned into the mind of Satoko-lovers like me...
Yeah, Shion was making some crazy faces all throughout the episode. I still feel kind of bad for her though.
Man, what the hell happened to Satoshi...
USCPharmacist
2006-08-09, 01:32
Holy Fucking Shit, Shion Is Skeletor!!!!
http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/4854/demonicshion00hv7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
At this particular frame shot to her face, she looks more like a "Hollow" or has one inside her. Check how the left eye is blank and part of her face is covered in black.
I do not think that is the working of a demon possessing Shion. Shion is the implosive type of person that swallows all s**t thrown at her and drags it overtime. Eventually, the rage and frustration quickly builds up and needs only a trigger to blow it up.
I think that being fed up and exposed too much time to the town's collective fear of Oyashiro-sama has paid a toll on Shion's mind, and she exploded into a highly paranoid and schizophrenic mentality.
Likely, Shion has developed dissociative identity disorder to cope with the trauma of losing Satoshi, her bitter childhood, and her hatred of Hinamizawa.
USCPharmacist
2006-08-09, 10:29
One too many needles in her rice balls? ehehhehe
so this ep confirmed the twins switching place.
Even though my japanese is kinda poor I could still understand many things.
Shion's face was sooo weird in the first half of the episode, it actually made me laugh!!
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a263/kAiRi__HeArTs/ohmygoditssougly0060.jpg :heh:
so next week we will see satoko and rika's disappearence
I'm guessing Rika (the other "rika" we've seen in ep14 and 15) prefered to commit suicide as to be killed by Shion. as we see Shion(disguised as Mion) with her tazer. "rika" didn't like the idea of being tortured and killed like the others. I've also noticed her voice wasn't really the nice rika we know :heh:
aliensporebomb
2006-08-11, 16:36
So what was the deal with Satoshi anyway? Did he really blow town using
the cash for the doll to book seats on trains or what? Do we ever find out?
I have another thought on Satoshi that never occurred to me until now:
I think Satoshi, if he had lived or stayed in town he might have discovered
there were two Sonozaki sisters.
After finding out Shion was the one who ran roughshod over his sister he
might have thought "no way would I ever date a psycho like you".
I suspect she might have had a very different thought about him - he never
really returned her affections like she believes.
I bet she knows that deep down anyway - she's just in love with the idea
of being in love with someone she can't have or would offend her family.
When she loudly and proudly proclaimed her love in front of Oni-baba she
wasn't afraid to just cram it in her face regardless of the consequences.
Re: Oni-Baba kicking frenzy:
That woman was directly responsible for Shion's childhood, her
ostracization from her family and ultimately the distinction she
was forced to endure. Do you blame her for going ballistic?
And her staying in town was almost a way to shame her family:
"you were supposed to be rid of me, I'll make you regret I was
ever born" I suspect.
Yeah, disassociative identity disorder - 100%.
NykylaiHellray
2006-08-12, 06:30
I may not understand japanese that well at all, but damn that was a cool eppisode o_o
and we finally know that the twin swapping thing is true =)
I got tired of waiting for wind, so i poked around for the Chinese subs.
Holy shit, that's all I can really say about it.
I kinda like how Shion did that monologue outloud, showing ehr thought process on her theory of how Satoshi was 'transfered away'. It was quite impressive. Her acting skill was really cool as well during the meeting with the rest of the villagers.
Oh boy, Shion. Shocking machines. Keiichi doomed.
Everything I needed. I shall give a 10 to this one. Even if it lacks Rena, it has enough Shion. And shocks.
Matt Soulblade
2006-08-14, 17:04
Stun gun ftw, damn.
I really want to know what happened to Rika, she's the key to something IMO.
I am a bit disappointed, probably because I expected too much but also because of the crazy way Shion's face was animated in this episode, her face muscles must win an award for dexterity and flexibility or something. :heh:
Oh, well at least my suspicion ever since episode 7 and 8 that Shion was the one who went mad in Watanagashi is correct. What surprised me the most was the fact that the one who started the rumour about the four people breaking in the warehouse was none other than Shion. And Tomitake died before the rumour was started. Hmm, seems to me that Shion is wrong and she should be chasing Takano rather than kill off all the members of the Gosankes. Too bad Oryou died before giving us new info about the mystery but my suspicion is that Shion is dead wrong and the Sonozakis might be Yakuza but they are not the real masterminds behing the Oyashiro-sama curse. Shion is probably jumping to conclusions which makes sense considering her mental state.
And will Mion be tortured to death because Keiichi mentioned she had asked him about Shion? And Shion's confession in episode 8 was probably just her way to provide evidence for the guilt of the Sonozakis, I doubt she intended to kill K1. Of course, the mystery of her death in the end of Arc 2 remains but I think one interesting possibility is that she might have found that her suspicions were wrong and she had killed her sister and other people for naught which led to her suicide.
I think one interesting possibility is that she might have found that her suspicions were wrong and she had killed her sister and other people for naught which led to her suicide.
You had me until that...
I think it's Mion who gets shoved out of the hospital window in episode 8. I mean the person who was in the stretcher at the end of eight was the person who was in the jail cell. It would be quite a feat for Mion to switch back at this point. I think Shion survives this arc.
What hospital window? I thought Shion (or Mion) jumped from the window of her flat? And it seems rather obvious at that point that the scenario of Shion killing Mion, putting her body in the well and then taking her place is very likely.
iczelion74
2006-08-14, 18:26
What hospital window? I thought Shion (or Mion) jumped from the window of her flat? And it seems rather obvious at that point that the scenario of Shion killing Mion, putting her body in the well and then taking her place is very likely.
Yup and later Shion jumps from the window after all this madness catches up with her conscience.
BakaOnna
2006-08-14, 18:46
I thought the animation was just... over the top ridiculous. Sure, in episode 7 and a few of the others had pretty awful emo face contortions, but nothing beats the ones given by Shion in this episode. And it's not exactly in a good sense either. Especially that one screenshot a few other people had posted. Because of those, I gave this episode an 8. It was still a very good episode, just too much face contortions.
Anyway, most of the theories I thought up are correct with the who was who parts. I guess this pretty much answers most of Watanagashi-hen. The only thing I'm still waiting for is how Shion stabbed Keiichi, and supposedly commited suicide at that same time. Can't wait for the next epsiode. This arc has two more episodes left right? Isn't it 6 episodes instead of 5?
You know, i somehow had a feeling that in Watanagashi-hen, it was Shion behind some of it. The idea behind the fact that Shion & Mion could switch around was to good not to use in the main plot.. nicely added.
Its good that the answer arcs are finally doing what they are set out to do, episode 19 has cleared up a few mroe fuzzy parts.. though i still believe theres much more we're not knowing about what happened with Satoshi. As for the steps Shion keeps hearing - you just know they'll end up being what drives her to the edge (Like what we got to see in Watanagashi-hen).
I was kind of nervous that Oni-baba would jump back into life when Shion was kicking her, like in horror movies where the killer comes back into life a second time just when everyone thinks its over.
I dont remember ep4 that well but wasnt Tomitake and Takano supposed to be dead before they went into the shrine? I wonder how they will explain that one.
The only thing I'm still waiting for is how Shion stabbed Keiichi, and supposedly commited suicide at that same time.
My theory is that Kei-chan stabbed himself and was imagine Mion because he was feeling guilty for not giving her the doll.
Yup and later Shion jumps from the window after all this madness catches up with her conscience.
Naw, I'm sticking to my guns on this one:
Someone jumps from the windows (or is pushed out the window) and THEN someone comes and kills Keichi, and then the episode is over. Mion or Shion survives. I'm assuming that it's Shion who survives because A)She has swapped positions with Mion at that point, B) She had a tazer, C) She seems more batshit crazy. D) The story is told by Shion. How could she tell a story if she's dead?
Yup and later Shion jumps from the window after all this madness catches up with her conscience.
my thoughts about that one
After the events on ep.18 I'm starting to believe that she fell down from the window running away from those footsteps....but that's just a "sudden" thought though
I dont remember ep4 that well but wasnt Tomitake and Takano supposed to be dead before they went into the shrine?
Only Takano was supposed to have been dead by the time the foursome visited the shrine warehouse. I doubt this mystery will be revealed in this arc (since I don't see how this would be done from Shion's point of view), I suspect Takano's real role is revelaed in the next arcs, possibly in the ones not covered by this anime, alas. But of course, that's just speculation.
I thought the animation was just... over the top ridiculous. Sure, in episode 7 and a few of the others had pretty awful emo face contortions, but nothing beats the ones given by Shion in this episode.
Quoted for truth. I was kind of wishing for a way to tell the animators - "Dudes, we got that Shion is going mad already, no need for a new ugly distorted Shion face every thirty seconds". :heh: As far as I am concerned the effect was more comical than scary, Takano manages to be scary without such stupid efects and the "snake eyes" of the girls from Onikakushi-hen were also scarier than this. It worked in the ladder scene but once you get used to it, it becomes annoying.
D) The story is told by Shion. How could she tell a story if she's dead?
Well, if Shion's story ends with her suicide or murder, we can quite safely assume K1 had gone mad and hallucinated that Mion was coming from under the bed to kill him. The story is told by K1 in the first two arcs but he definitely died in the first, so in Higurashi that doesn't seem to be such an impossible obstacle.
I'm interested to see that even with the footsteps lurking behind her, Shion still considers everything has a logic reason behind it. Her hypothesis regarding Tomitake's death (device or substance), her deduction on the Onikakushi, and actually throwing the whip towards the footstep.
Her monologue after knowing the meaning of the three fingernails is amazing and it was done without that freaky face in the torture chamber (which I thought was too weird). Her words are straight, bitter, and delivered with much venom that Kimiyoshi freaked out and possibly thought that he has talked to the wrong twin.
This episode gives us information about the escape route, but I'm not sure that Shion escaped through there. IIRC, Ooishi said that even Mion was found dead at the bottom of the sewer so he makes that "walking dead" quote.
What I can think of is that after K1 is rendered unconscious, Shion killed Mion, throws her down the sewer and acts as if she was the victim. Afterwards, she will steal Mion's body and use it as a suicide alibi thus making her way to K1.
BakaOnna
2006-08-14, 22:40
This episode gives us information about the escape route, but I'm not sure that Shion escaped through there. IIRC, Ooishi said that even Mion was found dead at the bottom of the sewer so he makes that "walking dead" quote.
What I can think of is that after K1 is rendered unconscious, Shion killed Mion, throws her down the sewer and acts as if she was the victim. Afterwards, she will steal Mion's body and use it as a suicide alibi thus making her way to K1.
That's the same idea I basically have. I think Shion used Mion's body as the person who jumped out the window. After she tazered Keiichi, she killed Mion and used her body as the suicide body. But then who's body was in the well? If we knew the exact time each event happened, we could probably figure it out. According to Oishi, "Shion's" body was found outside her apartment around the same time Kei-chan got stabbed. Unless Shion can teleport or she has super speed, I don't see how she can throw Mion's body out her apartment window, get to the hospital, and stab Keiichi. Unless her apartment was a block away from the hospital or something of that sort.
Anyway, the many faces of Sonozaki Shion!:heh:
http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/3506/shioniy8.jpg
guys, does this mean what I think it means?: :D
http://students.washington.edu/vegita/ohoho.png
I thought this episode was going to be the last episode for this arc. ):<
guys, does this mean what I think it means?: :D
http://students.washington.edu/vegita/ohoho.png
I thought the same thing.
I'm wondering though, doesn't the person who is inheriting the position have to have the tatoo on their back? If that's the case, Shion definitely doesn't have the tatoo so I wonder what this could mean.
This episode also brought another question for me. In episode 8, I believe, Shion (safely assuming that it is her), tries to show Rena and K1 her tatoo but Rena stops her. We all know that Rena is smarter than she looks and even a genius like K1. Could it be that Rena is trying to cover for Shion? And if so, why does she let Shion take K1 to the underground cave?
Another thing I thought about: Shion (also assuming it is Shion in episode 8) tells Keiichi that the demon inside of her had woken up because K1 didn't give Mion the doll. We know that everything was actually connected to Satoshi and not the doll. The doll, while it might significant, doesn't seem like the trigger for anything.
I'm sure my questions will be answered in the next episode.
I thought the same thing.
Another thing I thought about: Shion (also assuming it is Shion in episode 8) tells Keiichi that the demon inside of her had woken up because K1 didn't give Mion the doll. We know that everything was actually connected to Satoshi and not the doll. The doll, while it might significant, doesn't seem like the trigger for anything.
You could be right about the other stuff, but for this part I was thinking...
Shion knows about the whole doll incident, right? In episode 18 Mion tells her about it. So if Shion wanted to lie to Keichi about what made her want to kill him, that seems like a reasonable excuse. If it were the actually Mion in episode 8 almost killing Keichi, then the doll thing would seem like kind of a lame explanation.
i agree that shion kills mion, throws her in the well, escapes, steals her body, throws it from the balcony, and is then "dead" so she can do as she pleases
so in onikakushi-hen, when mion and rena come to K1's house to drug him/kill him, and then he struggles free and beats them to death, he is actually beating shion and rena... that's my theory anyway...
and it's shion laughing in ep5 when rika kills herself? or was it rena? i have to go look, but i'm sure someone will post it. so shion or rena had to put rika's body at the shrine the night K1 beat them to death, then the next day is when K1 tries to help Satoko. and we know what happens from there. The Dr. must have killed himself because he found rena and shion's bodies at K1's house the night before. he was distraught and guilty for having let an obviously psychotic K1 escape the hospital the night before.
which leaves rena to be the one who put the needle in K1's rice.
now, i can fit all this on a timeline, even up to the volcanic gas. but i can't figure out this:
and if K1 is suffering psychosis, and possible shifting back and forth between manic and depressive, possibly having trouble with a dissociative reality disorder, then hearing how tomitake died would give him the idea to kill himself that way. which he does, in ep 4....... which would be the night before the events with Satoko and the volcanic gas. this (possibly faux) suicide is the only only major hole on a timeline i drew out. i can pretty much account for each character's actions and whereabouts in all arcs, except this suicide throws it off.
i'll think about it more later, but if i do more now, my head will start spinning :eyespin: and i'll probably force someone to show the distinction.
guys, does this mean what I think it means?: :D
http://students.washington.edu/vegita/ohoho.png
Your image link is dead, but if it's what I think it is, then maybe we were all wrong all along. That or maybe Studio Deen is doing silly things with the animation again and are now making it even more confusing.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/nork22/shion.jpg
(image link REVIVED)
wow, when you put those 2 images together things get VERY confusing.
Or I guess
Shion has the tattoo and is the true heir to the Sonozaki house?
(image link REVIVED)
wow, when you put those 2 images together things get VERY confusing.
Or I guess
Shion has the tattoo and is the true heir to the Sonozaki house?
But it's not quite possible.
Remember Angel Mort? Unless of course the costume at that place is a new one.
but you can't see her back. Her hair's too long.
That's the same idea I basically have. I think Shion used Mion's body as the person who jumped out the window. After she tazered Keiichi, she killed Mion and used her body as the suicide body. But then who's body was in the well? If we knew the exact time each event happened, we could probably figure it out. According to Oishi, "Shion's" body was found outside her apartment around the same time Kei-chan got stabbed. Unless Shion can teleport or she has super speed, I don't see how she can throw Mion's body out her apartment window, get to the hospital, and stab Keiichi. Unless her apartment was a block away from the hospital or something of that sort.
Won't that mean that the policemen in this anime must be complete morons? I mean, throwing a dead body through a window would obviously be a plot that would be revealed really quickly, at the very worse at the autopsy and probably earlier if the policemen have more experience and Oishi does have a lot of experience. More importantly - what's the point? K1 wouldn't suspect that Shion would try to kill him anyway. Also, it's nigh on impossible for Shion to recover Mion's body with the police in charge of the situation in the torture chamber.
I think Occam's Razor clearly points at Shion actually commiting a suicide, no need for such complicated scenarios without a clear objective.
Furthermore, Shion (or Mion) stabbed K1 outside of his home, not in a hospital. Unless you mean the final scene of episode 8 but it clearly took place on the next day so the time factor is really not relevant.
I personally think Rika has something to do with "another person inheriting her (Obaba) true position".
aliensporebomb
2006-08-15, 14:30
Ishun - you and I think alike. Here's my theory:
The whole thing about Mion being the heir is a SHAM.
You heard me - even if there's a tattoo it means nothing.
I suspect she was never really an heir, only the appearance of it.
She's the public face of the "heir" so as to be a target in case someone
isn't happy with the family the true heir will be protected.
Oni-Baba and Kimiyoshi might have called a lot of shots but the idea is:
The true heir is the one with the weird power and potential demon
affliction and I suspect this same person is the person who committed
suicide in episode five rather than be killed by Shion.
And WHY did she opt to commit suicide rather than be killed?
Because, I suspect, SHE (or whatever demon is inside her) is the
one behind Satoshi's dissappearance. And giving Shion the
satisfaction of killing her wouldn't be in the best interest of
demon child so she'll kill herself and leave Shion wondering
if she was really responsible and not give her any information.
Just like Oni-baba. Or, is she doing it out of honor? We won't
know until EP20.
As I said the true heir is not publically known.
This means the heir can do a lot of dirty deeds and have plausible deniability.
Mion said she didn't know what happened to Satoshi because she
really didn't know what happened to Satoshi.
Shion won't believe it but I think Mion was kept in the dark all along.
Oni-baba and Kimiyoshi might even have to kowtow to the demon-child.
Vulcannis
2006-08-15, 14:44
guys, does this mean what I think it means?: :D
Triplets! Or at least that's what sprung into my head when I saw that.
It would explain the weird body in the well, suicide, hospital paradox, why it seems Mion doesn't have the tattoo in that one shot, and why she claims ignorance for so much stuff she should be privy too. And actually a pretty good reason for sparing Shion's life when she was born--if there are triplets, they can have the public face, a hidden face, and a diversion. Kinda useful.
Of course, there's been absolutely no hint or evidence for it, so I don't think it's true. After all those 4 things are easier explained as delusions, production error, screwing with Shion, and maybe Onibaba just wasn't present at the births since their mother was disowned?
So I guess triplets fails occam's razor... still, it would be funny seeing Shion in her raving glory meeting up with a 3rd sister with REAL power. :p
And as long as I'm on crazy theories, how about Rena being the real power behind the curse? Bwahahah.
Symmetry
2006-08-15, 14:47
My theory for the end of Watanagashi
I agree with the theory that says that after she kos Keichi and before the police arrive Shion kills Mion and dumps the body down the well before hiding in the cell. Shion is then taken out by the police and when examined appears to be Shion, just as the police (who don't realize she's the real killer) thought. Later, when they find Mion's body in the well they also correctly realize it was Mion. I had thought that they could tell the difference due to the prescence of the demon mark on Mion's back, but with this episode I'm not so sure about that any more.
So later Shion shows up and stabs Keichi, then later kills herself by jumping from a building. And the corpse coming back to finish Keichi off is just his hallucination.
Oh, and doesn't Keichi's request that "Mion" save both Shion and Mion seem much more interesting given the swap? I ought to download that episode and watch it again.
aliensporebomb
2006-08-15, 14:57
Triplets! Or at least that's what sprung into my head when I saw that.
It would explain the weird body in the well, suicide, hospital paradox, why it seems Mion doesn't have the tattoo in that one shot, and why she claims ignorance for so much stuff she should be privy too. And actually a pretty good reason for sparing Shion's life when she was born--if there are triplets, they can have the public face, a hidden face, and a diversion. Kinda useful.
Of course, there's been absolutely no hint or evidence for it, so I don't think it's true. After all those 4 things are easier explained as delusions, production error, screwing with Shion, and maybe Onibaba just wasn't present at the births since their mother was disowned?
So I guess triplets fails occam's razor... still, it would be funny seeing Shion in her raving glory meeting up with a 3rd sister with REAL power. :p
And as long as I'm on crazy theories, how about Rena being the real power behind the curse? Bwahahah.
I thought of a triplet but your last supposition is what I'm banking on.
So much speculation to read on in this thread and the theory thread. I, for one, am just going to let this mystery play out, and when the series is done, rewatch it from start to finish and place these puzzle pieces together then. This is definitely an exicitng story and the way a little more is learned each episode makes for very good plot development.
After watching more into the series, I have to say that I've transitioned from suspecting a supernatural explanation to one that is rational and just full of coincidences. Keiichi is smart, but I really think he believes in Oyashiro's curse. He believes that everyone is possessed, and because we watched the first arcs from his point of view, I leaned toward the supernatural explanation. However, as later arcs showed us more and more shocking coincidences (the Mion/Shion confusion does help explain quite a bit, especially in these last few episodes), we see that perhaps only an outsider like Keiichi can be fooled into believing the curse.
Shion has been very daring so far. I'm glad we see the mystery beginning to unravel even though Shion has become all the more gruesome. Quite gruesome indeed. I'll be reading more into what you guys think of Rika, because your speculations there have really caught my attention.
The triplet theory has already been proved false though. XD
Supergrunch
2006-08-15, 17:34
we see that perhaps only an outsider like Keiichi can be fooled into believing the curse.
Rena appears to believe in it, although it's possible that she's lying. Shion also genuinely seemed to hear the "footsteps", even though she's very sceptical about the curse... but then I suppose that she's a bit of an outsider, as is Rena.
BakaOnna
2006-08-15, 17:37
Won't that mean that the policemen in this anime must be complete morons? I mean, throwing a dead body through a window would obviously be a plot that would be revealed really quickly, at the very worse at the autopsy and probably earlier if the policemen have more experience and Oishi does have a lot of experience. More importantly - what's the point? K1 wouldn't suspect that Shion would try to kill him anyway. Also, it's nigh on impossible for Shion to recover Mion's body with the police in charge of the situation in the torture chamber.
I think Occam's Razor clearly points at Shion actually commiting a suicide, no need for such complicated scenarios without a clear objective.
Furthermore, Shion (or Mion) stabbed K1 outside of his home, not in a hospital. Unless you mean the final scene of episode 8 but it clearly took place on the next day so the time factor is really not relevant.
Oh right. She did stab him outside his house. I totally forgot about that.:heh: But still, I highly doubt his house is located right near her apartment. Oh, don't forget the shot of Shion's/Mion's foot outside. Her whole body was covered except for her foot, which was clean. Hmm, I wonder if this means something...
What makes you think the suicide took place roughly at the same time as the stabbing? The dead body is shown right after the stabbing but that doesn't mean the latter scene couldn't have taken place a few hours later, right? Wouldn't Ooishi mention something like "About the time you were stabbed Shion commited a suicide"?
Rika is believed to be the reincarnation of Oyashiro-sama. If she is also the heir of Oryou's position as the enforcer of Oyashiro-sama's wishes, that would make Oyashiro-sama a very weird deity who instead of leaving the dirty work to his followers would do it himself with his avatar. :) Anyway, there are way too many conjectures in this theory, we can't even be sure that Onibaba had an active role in any of the curse murders, let alone is the one who is responsible for all of them. In mystery films and books the characters guesses are wrong more often than not, that's why my intuition tells me that Shion is wrong in thinking everything in this mystery revolves around the Sonozakis.
Ishun - you and I think alike. Here's my theory:
The whole thing about Mion being the heir is a SHAM.
You heard me - even if there's a tattoo it means nothing.
I suspect she was never really an heir, only the appearance of it.
She's the public face of the "heir" so as to be a target in case someone
isn't happy with the family the true heir will be protected.
Oni-Baba and Kimiyoshi might have called a lot of shots but the idea is:
The true heir is the one with the weird power and potential demon
affliction and I suspect this same person is the person who committed
suicide in episode five rather than be killed by Shion.
And WHY did she opt to commit suicide rather than be killed?
Because, I suspect, SHE (or whatever demon is inside her) is the
one behind Satoshi's dissappearance. And giving Shion the
satisfaction of killing her wouldn't be in the best interest of
demon child so she'll kill herself and leave Shion wondering
if she was really responsible and not give her any information.
Just like Oni-baba. Or, is she doing it out of honor? We won't
know until EP20.
As I said the true heir is not publically known.
This means the heir can do a lot of dirty deeds and have plausible deniability.
Mion said she didn't know what happened to Satoshi because she
really didn't know what happened to Satoshi.
Shion won't believe it but I think Mion was kept in the dark all along.
Oni-baba and Kimiyoshi might even have to kowtow to the demon-child.
I agree that Rika could be the actual heir as well. Another thing that could support this theory, is that in one of the TIPS, it said the Oryou likes Rika. This could be because (like all the older citizens of Hinamizawa) she thinks Rika is Oyashiro-sama's reincarnate, but I find that unlikely. If Rika was the real heir, this would make sense. (TIP: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=615936&postcount=80)
Completely unrelated from what I said above, I'm rewatching Watanagashi Arc, and in light of Episode 19, Rika's little metaphor with cats and dogs in episode 7 is really confusing me. Anyone have any specualtion on it? I think Misunderstanding dog = Shion, Cat = Keiichi, Elder/Younger Cats = ?
Wanderer
2006-08-16, 03:19
Two points on the "Shion is somehow in two places at once" issue:
1) Is there any reason we should assume that one of the twins dies before the police rescue K1 and "Shion"? What if they are both alive at that point?
2) I never got the impression that the stabbing event at K1's house and Shion's suicide/murder happened at the same time.
I also want to bring up that line that the twin says right before she tasers K1. The one where she says something like: "if you see me again, avoid me. Because that will be the demon possessing my corpse"
The fact that that very event appeared to happen to K1 pretty much rules it out as a red herring.
So 3 possibilities as to why she would say it:
1) She's bonkers and really thinks it's true for whatever reason. K1 too, he also goes crazy and sees what he expects to see because she put the idea in his head. - I think this is highly unlikely. It has too many coincidences, and K1 going crazy here is really out of nowhere.
2) She's making it up. She is lieing for some reason, or she means it as a metaphor to say "this is the last time you will see me with any sanity". - Possible. However, the motive for lieing remains unclear. Nonetheless, this is the best option for a "logical explanation".
3) She's right. - I think this is the most likely
Another thing- I would like to note that the symptoms of Shion's insanity here are very very similar to K1's symptoms in Onikakushi-hen. They both hear footsteps, they both feel some ominous presense, and they both become extremely paranoid and mistrusting. I suspect that there is a reason for this. Also,
Apparently Tomitake also hears the banging sounds from inside the utensil shrine, meaning only he and Shion heard it. Tomitake throats himself in this arc, just like K1 does in Onikakushi-hen.
1) Is there any reason we should assume that one of the twins dies before the police rescue K1 and "Shion"? What if they are both alive at that point?
There is a reason - the body of one of the twins was found in the well. I really don't see how they can both be alive, then one fo them taken out on a stretcher and then somehow a body ends up in the well (around which they were probably many policemen). Of course, Ooishi could by lying about the body being found in the well but it makes sense that Shion would kill Mion, if for nothing else than to get rid of a witness of her crimes.
BakaOnna
2006-08-16, 08:13
I've noticed that there seem to be a decrease in the number of viewers for this series. It's rather sad since I think the series is getting better and better, especially with this answer arc and the next.
I've noticed that there seem to be a decrease in the number of viewers for this series. It's rather sad since I think the series is getting better and better, especially with this answer arc and the next.
Where'd you find this info?
FatPianoBoy
2006-08-16, 19:45
I just noticed something about the footsteps.
It seems to me that no one hears the footsteps until Rena mentions them to the person. We never see Rena tell Satoshi about them, but I think it's safe to assume that he'd have been informed out of our perception.
Where I'm going with this: Rena went berserk on her school with a baseball bat. She even assaulted some of her classmates. Under normal circumstances, she'd be in juvenile detention - unless she was insane. She told the court about the footsteps and Oyashiro-sama standing over her, and this was interpreted as an insanity plea. The doctor assigned to her interpreted this as Rena being extremely homesick, and therefore prescribed moving back to Hinamizawa as her 'cure.' Naturally, Irie would be informed of all this, so in order to keep up the alibi amidst the gossipy small town, Rena would have to maintain her story to each and every person who would be in a position to know.
The bottom line: Oyashiro-sama is a combination of the Sonozaki's dirty deeds and Rena's own fabrications.
Sinestra
2006-08-16, 19:48
Ok so SHion has gone competly off her rocker i mean witht he whole going tazer happy on people. I have never wished for anyone to die in this series but i must admit when the grandmother gets it i was very happy. So theories are
We learn that Mion is not really the heir shes just a spokes person. I am thinking that Rika might really be the heir.
We find out that Shion has been switching places with her sister for a while. which means in previous chapters the person who we thought was MIon was really SHion using Keiichi as bait.
Even though Shion claims not to beleive in the curse she headfoot steps behind her. I think thats a sign for her time is almost up.
When Keiichi goes to the underground tourture chamber with Mion i think it was really SHion and the one he sees in the cell is really Mion since Shion has taken her palce.
The Distinciton did not work out the way Shion thought it would she failed to calculate her self into it therefore saving her self and 2 others but not Satoshi. Very sneeky indeed.
I think Shion kills Mion and its really Shion that stabs Keiichi out side of his house or hospital.
I think i mentioned this before but oh well. Shion kept saying that she has the same thing inside of her as Mion since they are twins. I think that Shion was already dead and it was the demon that stab Keiichi.
I dont know about the apprent suicide of Shion cause something is not right with the time frame. However, Ooyshi said he found one of the twins bodies in the well does anyone have any guesses on which one it is. I baseing everything off the fact that it Mion that was in the well not Shion
I agree partly with FatPianoBoy's theory that the curse is mostly a fabrication of Rena's dillusions. Shion was really spooked by Rena's speech about Oyashiro-sama's curse, and paid close attention to what she was saying. Now perhaps the first time Shion heard the footsteps was from something falling or some coincidence. But that made Shion think back to what Rena was saying. This combined with all the pressure she's under with all the things she's been doing may cause her to hallucinate more and more about Rena's story.
She does outright say she doesn't believe in the curse, but subconsciously her mind may be making it real to her. Like how most people don't believe in things such as ghosts, but we still feel a chill down our spines sometimes when alone in the dark. The human mind is a strange thing in its workings.
Now all this may not really cause Shion to do the things she does, but I think it's a contributing factor. And may escalate to her suicide at the end. In one of the TIPS threads, it is said that shortly before her suicide, neighbours heard arguing in her room, but only 1 voice. It could be that she is arguing with a hallucination of perhaps Mion, Satoshi, or even onibaba. Can't wait to see the conclusion of this chapter!
aliensporebomb
2006-08-17, 11:07
I keep thinking the end of this story is going to VARY from the previous chapter:
it's going to make us ask more questions than ever before.
It's also very possible that even Rika isn't the true heir - it seems logical
given the towns love for her, the strangness she exhibits (dual personality
or possession) but I had a thought that really surprised me and could be
plausible - I am waiting until I see 20 before unleashing my suspicion but
it makes an odd kind of sense.
I've noticed that there seem to be a decrease in the number of viewers for this series. It's rather sad since I think the series is getting better and better, especially with this answer arc and the next.
If you're judging this from torrent downloads, do note that torrents are not necessarily accurate. There are tons of ppl watching their anime from youtube, and some directly download them. From WIND's latest subs, I believe people are getting Higurashi off Ebay.
Yes Higurashi has always been getting better. The first answer arc has been the best so far, even though much has been cut out I guess.
theacefrehley
2006-08-17, 15:15
Your image link is dead, but if it's what I think it is, then maybe we were all wrong all along. That or maybe Studio Deen is doing silly things with the animation again and are now making it even more confusing.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b160/nork22/shion.jpg
Well,
First post in these forums hehe
Regarding this image
That kind of intrigued me
Someone who played the game could make it clear
Is it a mistake or not?
From the opening sequence we can clearly see one of the twins with a tattoo
Could it be Shion the true heir?
About the the episode, it seems quite clear now
Shion killed Mion and threw her in the well, after put Keiichi to sleep, stabbed Keiichi and suicided.
I Remember her flat on episode 8 was a mess. Maybe the "petta, petta" drove her crazy and after destroy the furniture she jumped... :(
The ending seems like an illusion, or hallucination. Come on, she came from under the bed...
Oishi didn't notice it?
FatPianoBoy
2006-08-17, 15:39
How'd I miss that picture the first time around?
Now I'm seriously WTF-ing here :(
From the intro, it appears that that mark covers her entire back. Unless Studio Deen just forgot to draw it, we're in for a lot of surprises or a lot more questions :uhoh:
Chibi Nasu
2006-08-17, 17:05
Unless I'm being blind or something, I'm pretty sure that's just her hair.
FatPianoBoy
2006-08-17, 22:13
Unless I'm being blind or something, I'm pretty sure that's just her hair.
I guess you're blind then :p
I'm pretty sure that's not her hair. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to post a screencap of the intro.
Chibi Nasu
2006-08-17, 23:40
I guess you're blind then :p
I'm pretty sure that's not her hair. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to post a screencap of the intro.
Or just stupid. I totally misinterpreted the text on the screenshot above ^^;; I guess that's what I get for not sleeping for the past few nights @.@
Uh.. yeah... disregard my former post :heh:
aliensporebomb
2006-08-18, 11:45
So does this mean:
We need to line up Rika, Mion and Shion so we can look at their backs
sans shirts?
I wouldn't mind.
Cardiac Glycoside
2006-08-19, 01:06
OK, OK--
Are we sure that Grandmother is dead? Is that even her?
theacefrehley
2006-08-19, 16:35
OK, OK--
Are we sure that Grandmother is dead? Is that even her?
She has to be.
Shion threw her in the well...
It'd be too much if onibaba comes back...
Deathkillz
2006-08-22, 14:09
oh dear...shion has gone completely to the dark side :heh:
this ep explained a lot from the question arc...shion pretending to be mion is flawless...the whipping scene scared the shit outta me...seeing her psyco face is really disturbing :heh:
FatPianoBoy
2006-08-22, 14:54
I wasn't sure what to think about the faces during the whipping scene. I thought that was a bad animation choice by Studio Dean; way too over-the-top. The scene was already freaky - they didn't need to make Shion look like that.
Deathkillz
2006-08-22, 15:04
^ yep it was over the top...normal ppl wont just have spazed out faces...even if they do go into "psyco mode" i think its ment to scare ppl...it freaked for me anyway...
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