View Full Version : Higurashi Episode 20 Discussion / Poll
Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 20.
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Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) before you ask questions!!!
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Wow. Excellent episode...and the production quality wasn't bad, either. Almost like going back to Onikakushi's quality, I thought (though still no creepy slit-eyes...sigh). I forgot this wasn't the last episode in the arc, though, so I was pretty frustrated with where it left off...
Rika-chama's confrontation with Shion was amazing! I was not expecting that she'd have the syringe at all... It's really interesting to see things fall more into place at last.
Can't wait for next episode! And to hear what the folks who've experienced the sound novel think of the adaptation this time.
Rasuberi
2006-08-16, 00:17
The Rika scene was pretty amazing. ^__^; I can't seem to stop saying "I can't wait to read the sound novel even more now" with all these scenes... gaah.
I'm terribly happy the production value was at least... higher than last episode. I reaaally hope the next episode has some quality from the first arcs... I don't want any lessening of the greatness I know it should be.
And goodness, I just have so much difficulty in choosing the order I like characters now. The only one I can say without any doubt to be on the top of the list is Mion... but really, Rika, Rena, Shion, and Satoko are so lovable. I get the feeling I'll like Satoko more next episode? *tear* I remember the days I hated Rika... *slowly stabs self crazily*
Awesome episode. Less weird contorting faces and more cute Shion-ness.
So uh, that one part with Rika:
I didn't quite get what ithe drug was doing to her. Was it a slow painful death which made her prefer to kill herself, or did it drive her nuts making her commit suicide? If the latter is so, it would explain a few things in the other arcs.
Awesome episode. Less weird contorting faces and more cute Shion-ness.
So uh, that one part with Rika:
I didn't quite get what ithe drug was doing to her. Was it a slow painful death which made her prefer to kill herself, or did it drive her nuts making her commit suicide? If the latter is so, it would explain a few things in the other arcs.
Insulin shot? Nah that's too outfield. Most likely a sedative.
Eleutheria
2006-08-16, 06:03
Oh, crap, went in knowing what was going to happen, due to the flashback from the second arc, and still got the shivers...
Who the heck goes head to head with a girl who wears a gun, with just a can of pepper spray? Try getting close to a bear and Macing it, and you'd be lucky not to be mauled.
ShadowRift
2006-08-16, 06:14
Ugh, yeah... even though they showed that part in the second arc, it was still pretty painful to actually watch.
...but yeah, next episode with Satoko's fate is going to be even worse...
USCPharmacist
2006-08-16, 14:12
I don't know if I should post it here, but after seeing Shion and Rika fought, it reminded me of Daybreak. Anyone plays that game here? Will there be translation of the scenerios? Also anyone want to host a game so we in Animesuki can see who can pwn to most, Oyashiro Sama's style!
Wanderer
2006-08-17, 00:05
Another great Higurashi episode, even though my Japanese is only intermediate level and I'll have to wait for the sub to understand it fully.
Rika's metaphors in episode 7 make a lot more sense now.
The Rika/Shion scene was intense. No matter how many times I see it, I just can't get used to Rika and her knife. The syringe was also quite a tantalizing surprise. A clue for Onikakushi-hen?
I'm not sure that I buy into the idea that Rika suicides just to avoid physical pain. I think she's stronger than that. Perhaps she knows that the town will meet disaster if she is Watanagashi'ed. Or maybe she just hates the idea of not having control of her own fate, and would rather die by her own hand than allow the prophecy she made 5 years ago be fulfilled.
Just thinking about the yet unknown, but surely horrible, way Satoko will die next episode... *shudders*
Shion’s case is very similar to Kecichi’s. Both of them appear to be very mistrusting, they both jump easily to conclusions, act like those conspiracy freaks – “everyone is out there to get me”, they both seem to be easily influenced by suggestions and I think what’s most important they both start to be very aggressive and have murderous intents (when talking about Keichi, I mean his situation in Onikakushi and in Tatarigoroshi). Shion believes she is very “cold and logical”, but at the same time she doesn’t have problems with believing she is followed and watched by Satoshi’s spirit, in this episode she even had a short “conversation” with him. What caused Shion to snap here? At the beginning of last episode she heard Mion ordering people to be silenced (I think it would be interpreted by ordering them to stop spreading rumors), she heard her talking about Takano and Tomitake being killed by Oyashiro-sama’s curse. Except her tone and facial expression Mion's words didn’t seem to be very ominous, but that was enough for Shion to take steps, after which there was no turning back. Other thing – old man said clearly: her Kejime was for her, uncle and Kasai, not for Satoshi. Shion is sure it was because there is no forgiving for him. But, if I remember correctly, Mion clearly said during “ceremony” that if she struggle it is possible for Satoshi to be dragged into this. Satoshi wasn’t supposed to be subjected to Shion’s punishment, because he wasn’t a part of this, he didn’t betray “family”- Kasai and uncle failed as “parts of the family” and that’s why Shion had to pay her price for them. Satoshi at worst was “get rid of” Oishi’s style – “we will protect your sister, but you have to get lost”. I think old man just failed to say clearly what he meant there. Other thing – all we know about Watanagashi’s true meaning comes from Takano, all what Shion know about it also comes from her, Shion know and believes everything, what Takano wanted her to believe, we don’t know how much of it is actually truth, Shion strongly believes that Satoshi was subjected to ritual, but was there such a ritual in the first place? I think Takano's words and notes were the main factor in awakening Shion’s paranoia and that was what Takano hoped for, when she gave her those notes. And last thing – why Rena/Mion (Onikakushi) and Rika (Meakashi) had syringe with them and why they wanted to inject something into two persons who appear to have the same disease (judging by the symptoms), also Rena and Satoshi were earlier in the same state, Rena was subjected to treatment (she attacked three other people and I believe if she wasn’t stopped, she would have killed someone in the end) and after that she had to leave town (was she given a “shot”?), Satoshi left Hinamizawa for good – did he kill himself, was killed by someone, or was forced to leave, did he went through "treatment"?- we don’t know. Keichi in Onikakushi after shot had killed Mion and Rena and after that he killed himself, which would indicate that Rena and Mion wanted to kill him. But one thing – Keichi strongly believed that this shot was the thing which killed Tomitake, what if this “medicine” doesn’t have immediate effects? As I said earlier people subjected to this “disease” seem to be very easily affected by suggestions, for example: people under hypnosis are able to do similar things to themselves if suggestion is strong enough, he might have killed himself before the medicine started to act. Ok. So my biggest question here is: why 11 year old girl went alone into rampaging psychopath’s home to give her a medicine? And why two young girls went with other rampaging psychopath and tried to inject into him medicine before the “medical squad” appeared? If this sickness I’m talking about is a part of some conspiracy, why they were left alone? Keichi was taken care of by some guys (dudes in green), but why was he left alone with girls later? Overall, I can’ty give this episode anything lower than “9”, but seriously, I waited mostly for Meakashi, but it’s one of the heaviest thing I have ever seen (Rika-chama ;_;'), kind of don’t feel like watching last episode (Satoko/Mion/Shion OTL).
Excellent. I gave it a 9/10. Could've hoped for Rika calling out to "XXXX" as she gasps, but since we're not going to Minagoroshi or Matsuribayashi, probably better to leave it out that way.
I'm not sure that I buy into the idea that Rika suicides just to avoid physical pain.
Getting warmer. But you missed a major point - how on earth would Rika know that Mion's a "torture freak?" There is silent hint there.
Perhaps she knows that the town will meet disaster if she is Watanagashi'ed.
(Smile) Let's see what the TIPS will have to say for that after this chapter is over...
LostBlue
2006-08-17, 12:26
I saw the EP... I think my expectations were too high. I liked it, just wished the animation would have been better. The Rika scene freaked me out when I played the game since I forgot about the stabbing - I could imagine the people who didn't see the anime prior to playing the game even moreso, b/c it literally came out of nowhere.
I also miss Rika's screaming during her stabbing... It would have been cool, but probably waaaaaaaay too much for Public TV. I mean the stabbing is graphic enough as is.
BTW Rika stabs herself in the throat not the head ^^
My biggest complaint with the Meakashi Hen in general is, it shouldn't be 6 EPs, IMO. I mean I love the chapter (even more so then the next), but Tsumihoroboshi really needs as many EPs as it can get.
Well next EP is going to be good. The best two parts of Meakashi will be fused together for Shion and Satoko fans ^^
Satoko survives and kills K1!
er no wait
Satoshi returns with a pregnant wife!
It's interesting to watch the anime after clearing Matsuribayashi-hen and the game, it makes you feel bad for all the characters in the previous chapters. :heh:
I liked this episode, the pace was slow enough to portray the important scenes properly, especially the scene with Rika in the end there. The injection felt a little sudden though, they could've showed how Shion noticed the syringe and deducted that Rika was trying to harm her with it, before finally deciding to give Rika a "taste of her own medicine".
Next episode, the decisive scene that catapulted Satoko to the top of my favorite characters list. Also happens to be the scene that got me bawling. :(
After Rika first sprayed Shion, then walked over to lift up Shion's hair, was she trying to check the tattoo on her back? The scene lasted for less than a second and it's impossible from our angle to see if Rika pulled Shion's shirt or not...
Another speculation: I remember Rika's father died from an "unknown disease"; maybe Rika and her syringe has something to do about that...
aliensporebomb
2006-08-21, 15:03
Satoko survives and kills K1!
er no wait
Satoshi returns with a pregnant wife!
Can you IMAGINE Shion's reaction at the latter?
If a human could be an atomic bomb, it would be Shion at that moment.
And what would be even better is if it was the missing third Sonozaki triplet.
(Yes, I know she doesn't exist but I can dream can't I?)
That's more like it. I didn't think Meakashi-hen's plot development could still susprise as much as it did in this episode. Great episode which would probably had been even better had we not been spoiled a bit by the first scene of Watanagashi-hen.
I think the question is whether the drug in the syringe is the the drug that makes people claw their throats or Rika decided it was better to kill herself than being tortured to death.
The syringe appearing in Rika's hand was quite a surprise, I really love Higurashi's plot twists. But Shion seemed kind of surprised by Rika's visit, did she really invite her for that? After all, she was reluctant at first to invite Rika in the house, it certainly didn't look as if she was planning to kill her as was the impression left by the events in Watanagashi
Furthermore, now it seems almost certain that K1 was really stabbed by Shion outside his house in episode 8. Then she said "I did it, I killed everyone!" which was very similar to what she said after Rika died. Maybe after letting K1 go she somehow got the crazy idea that he is also to blame for Satoshi's death, so decided to kill him too.
very good episode, the 24 minutes passed really quickly and i was on the edge of my seat the entire time. i like how the more you see, the more it blends in with earlier episodes so things make more sense. pretty clever to explain the opening clip of episode 5(? cant remember) like 15 episodes later, considering they're the same chapter.
this show's one of the few this season thats still exciting:rolleyes:
LostBlue
2006-08-21, 18:10
Shion seemed kind of surprised by Rika's visit, did she really invite her for that?
Rika's sudden visit wasn't planned. Shion heard the doorbell tried to use the monitor for the hidden surveillance cameras set up around the house but she couldn't figure them out so she went to the door. Shion was quite surprised to find Rika there especially what happen earlier in the day. Shion didn't want to let Rika in, but she insisted. After thinking it over, Shion thought it'll be better for Rika to come inside with her so she could keep an eye on her, rather than having Rika wander around the house while Shion was away filling the bottle.
So this invitation to drop by to get some soy sauce was not written by Shion then. Interesting. But now that I look at episode 8 it seems it wasn't sent to Rika only as my previous impression, so I guess this is not such an important issue.
damn... someone wrote "ebil rena ;_;" as torrent description so that made me completely 300% hyped up for this episode... quite an evil trick:frustrated: there was no ebil rena ;_;:upset:
But Shion has shown to also be quite ebil:heart::love:
And they also eqiuped her with sharp weapon, so now Shion is definitely qualified as likeable to me:heh:
But poor Rika, it crushes something in me when my favourite imouto characters get bullied >_< this is unforgiveable Shion......:eyespin: :eyespin: :eyespin: :eyespin: :eyespin:
Satoko is next... poor Satoko:( *fears*
Darklightz
2006-08-21, 20:31
I loved this episode.And I learned never to get on Shion's bad side! XD
Considering that Keichii still had enough strenght to kill Rena and Mion after receiving the drug himself,it's not surprising Rika was still standing.However I find it very strange that Rika could kill herself so easily.
I don't think we know if it is the same drug as K1 in the first story. And many people have speculated that the syringe K1 thought he saw was really a black marker.
I don't know what to believe anymore.
Sinestra
2006-08-21, 21:37
Holy crap what an Fu*ked episode i had to give it a 10. I will never ever piss off Shion at one point i had to turn the lights on since she was creeping me the hell out so much. We finally get to see how things really played out with Rikas death at least the first death. We know what the drug does however i still find it hard to believe that she could kill her self in that fashion.
I had always thought it was Mion in the room with her when it happened but this was before we learned that Shion imprisoned Mion and took her place. As much as she is trying to get revenge for Satoshi the way she is moving everyone like Chess Pieces is no diffrent than what the rest of the families have done in the past. But i guess i cant just rationalieze this due to the fact that Shion is not rational. She had snapped something serious and as the episodes roll by we see her getting worse. I mean Rika was no princess either the look and the way she spoke was like she was possessed to. She chose to kill her self instead of letting Shion have the pleasure of tourturing her to death.
I dont think that Shion have a concept of right and wrong anymore to use Keiichi as bait is wrong she doesnt care if he lives or dies. there arent many people left we already know that Satako is SOL and so is Mion there is no way they are getting out of this alive. So i guess we will get to see how Shion kills Satoko in episode 21 and for some reason i think its going to be painful to watch
Does anyone know if Shion threw the village elder down the well?
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8889/vlcsnap670012ct3.th.png (http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap670012ct3.png)
How would you like to wake up to this face
BakaOnna
2006-08-21, 22:14
Urg! This episode made my dislike towards Shion shoot up about 10 more notches. How dare she touch Rika! :frustrated:
She is definitely loosing it now. Now for some ideas, mainly about what's inside the syringe .
It seems as if whatever is in the syringe is some sort of drug. Before, there were theories on how the syringe was used to prevent people in the village from a "disease" or from them becoming crazy. After watching this episode, it seems to do the exact opposite. It seems as if it makes the person... commit suicide? Let's see what it's done so far.
In Onikakshi-hen, we see Mion about the inject whatever was in the syringe in Keiichi. We never actually saw her injecting the syringe since it switched over to the next scene with him beating Mion and Rena to death. After, he believed he was chased by Oyashiro-sama and clawed out his throad, thus, killing himself.
I don't remember if there was a similar senario with Tomitake. Tomitake killed himself by clawing at his throat and killing himself. However, there was no postive test for drug use. Maybe whatever is in the syringe can't be tested as postive for drug tests?
Also based on the TIPS or whoever mentioned the fact that, back during episode 5, we were told that there was a syringe next to where Rika died. This episode also explained what happened during the first 20 seconds of episode 5. This episode also explained the conversation she and Keiichi had about the dog and cat in episode 7. Aww yes, Watanagashi-hen is becoming so much clearer now.
Okay, for the first half of the episode and the majority of the series, I was almost convince that all these kidnappings and "onikakushi's" were logical, especially when Rika mentioned the kidnapping of the grandson. I thought, maybe it was those gray-suited guys that worked for Onibaba and did all her dirty work. Then, Rika started acting all weird in the episode, thus throwing that thought away. There was also the fact that Shion saw Satoshi's shadow, but that might've just been her hallucination. And also, Rika also no footsteps? o.O Now that is weird, unless she was stepping lightly.
My opinion on Rika and Oyashiro-sama:
Now for Oyashiro-sama. In this episode, and in the previous question arc, we're shown that Rika is clearly not what she's made out to be. In the last arc, she was able to predict all the events and murders that were supposed to happen during Watanagashi, the death of Akasaka's wife, and her own death. Let's take the supernatural route and say Rika is the reincarnation of Oyashiro-sama. She's the guardian of the village, so once she dies, then the end of the village? At least, that's what we get from Tatarigoroshi-hen. In Tatarigoroshi-hen, Rika's body is found outside Oyashiro-sama's shrine, and watanagashi'd. In this arc, Rika killed herself after being injected with the syringe. What does this mean? Hinamizawa is going to end? What happens now? The out-of-this-world parallel universe theory is a bit too weird for my taste, but what if Rika is able to travel through each time and change things? Anyway, no more thoughts on that.
We've been also told by Rena, in almost every arc except for the last question arc (since she wasn't in it), that she's been possessed by Oyashiro-sama and came back to Hinamizawa to apologize. So until I see the next answer arc, I'm going to keep this information as a "fact". Or it could be that Oyashiro does exist and the one that Rena believes is her just imagination, but I'm getting rather tired of these "it's because he/she is hallucinating and imagining it" theories, though, I do believe the character suffer from major multipersonality disorders, paranoia and bipolar disorders.
Anyway, lots of good information in this episode. I can't wait for the end of this arc, and for the start of Tsumihoroboshi-hen. :)
Darklightz
2006-08-21, 22:45
Wasn't it said before that only the first answer arc was going to be animated?
Also this episode brings a very interesting question.Are the Sonozakis really the most power family in Hinamizawa?I used to think so because they seemed closer to Oyashiro-sama,coordinating the curse and everything.
And yet Rika comes in with the intention to inject the strange drug to (who she thinks is) Mion.Now if the Sonozaki were so powerful,Rika would never dare do such a thing.Wich makes it seem like Oyashiro does exist and directly ordered her to do this.
However I find it very strange that Rika could kill herself so easily.Well, underneath her cute big head, there is her neck, very tiny and very thin, it easily breaks if stabbed:( And yet Rika comes in with the intention to inject the strange drug to (who she thinks is) Mion.Now if the Sonozaki were so powerful,Rika would never dare do such a thing.
Well, Rika is a good and brave little girl, if I remember correctly she did promise to protect Keiichi when he confessed his story to her. I still think Rika would assault 'Mion' nomatter what, it was for Keiichi's sake after all (is what I think anyway).
:love::love::love::love:So cute ^^;;
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8889/vlcsnap670012ct3.th.png (http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap670012ct3.png)
How would you like to wake up to this face
I'd would love it if it was me:heh:
:love::love::love::love:
Awesome episode, but the scene where Shion and Rika were walking down the hallway confused me.
First she said Rika wasn't making any footstep noises, which is why she stopped. She was definately making footstep sounds before she bumped into her. Then Shion says Rika was trying to match her footsteps with her own. Was Shion just paranoid that Rika was really the one who was following her since she hinted that she was/can see Oyashiro-sama? That whole scene was kind-of confusing.
and if I can guess what's going to happen next
satoko comes to the sonozaki house, and actually gets tortured until she dies. scenes from watanagashi 7 and 8 occur, and shion lures keichii to the fun-fun underground torture chamber to torment mion (since mion told shion she loved him, shion will see it as revenge for mion killing satoshi, or so she thinks) she doesn't kill him, and since he knows too much she goes back to finish him off (though it is kind of funny how shion goes "YAY I KILLED EVERYONE I NEEDED TO" then changes her mind and goes "OK NVM, NOW I KILLED EVERYONE." after she stabs keichii)
and i'm not sure about this, but isn't it possible for shion to kill rena before the scene with oishii and keichii? we didn't see rena after the scene where she says goodbye to him, after all.
but before the hospital scene, i'm guessing shion will realize what she's done and now that the guilt has caught up with her she'll jump from her apartment window. after all, most of it was the demon basically fueling, if not controlling, her rage.
also, to explain where the sisters were after rena called the police, i'm guessing shion knocked keichii out, then went to kill mion. she switched clothes, threw mion in the well, and went back to her apartment to kill herself. the sonozaki we saw in the hospital scene was just a hallucination from keichii.
I'd would love it if it was me:heh:
:love::love::love::love:You have some weird tastes, my friend. But then again, who doesn't love the girls of Higurashi? ;)
As expected, there continues to be excellent storytelling with more of the mysteries behind the Watanagashi-hen being uncovered. A very intriguing plot being unraveled (It had me to glued to the screen), but it saddens me to finally learn the cold hard truth behind Rika's death. Boy was Shion out of control. And it doesn't look as though her killing frenzy will be ending anytime soon... more departures :(. Nonetheless, I can't wait to find out how this arc ends. A very entertaining mystery indeed!
10/10
rexlunae
2006-08-21, 23:46
Even if I'm committing the sin of assuming consistency between chapters, I have to wonder:
In watanagashi-hen, Rena brings the letter about the soy sauce to show Keiichi. In Meakashi-hen, Rika has it with her when she goes to the Sonozaki estate. That means Shion has it, so how would it get from Shion to Rena? It seems like Shion would want to hold on to something so incriminating. Is Rena actiively helping Shion? Did Shion plant it somewhere to be found, and if so why? Or is this just a difference between the chapters?
I guess I'll find out tomorrow, maybe.
LostBlue
2006-08-21, 23:56
Even if I'm committing the sin of assuming consistency between chapters, I have to wonder: In watanagashi-hen, Rena brings the letter about the soy sauce to show Keiichi.
That news letter went out the every house in the village. Rena gave K1 his copy that was still on his porch.
As for Rika-chan...
Kimiyoshi is not only a Gosanke Head, the Village Elder, but also Rika's lawful guardian. Also he is very close to all immediate members of the Sonozaki family. When "Mion" says he's been taken care of, and also her sister Shion as well, and the fact that Oryou hasn't been seen since Watanagashi, I think she thought something might be up.
ChainLegacy
2006-08-22, 00:04
Umm... I know it might sound evil, but I was so happy when Shion owned Rika. Take that, Oyashiro! Though there will obviously be some kind of payback later on for it...
I<3killerloli's
2006-08-22, 00:09
Phenomenal and disturbing episode. The climactic scene is now in the pantehon of most disturbing and suspensful death scenes I've ever watched. It really makes you squirm! ^ - ^
P.S. about Daybreak. How's it coming along? Is it out yet? Is it free? What characters are in it and what weapons do they use? Can you play it on the net and is it easy to learn without knowing Japanese?
why exactly did Rika to try to kill Shion anyway? i don't understand. is it cause she's asking too many questions about Satoshi?
I<3killerloli's
2006-08-22, 01:16
^ I believe it's because Rika saw Shion as a threat to the peace of herself and her friends, not only misunderstanding, but totally whackadoo as well. Remember the speech she told K1 in Watanagashi.
You have some weird tastes, my friend. But then again, who doesn't love the girls of Higurashi? ;)~_~ I know, I even surprise myself sometimes...:heh:
(I also surprised all the prison guards when I escaped mental prison:eyespin:)
>_>
<_<
(the thing with mental prison is a joke btw...no really! I swear^^;; )
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8889/vlcsnap670012ct3.th.png (http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap670012ct3.png)
How would you like to wake up to this faceNow that I think more about it, if I woke up to something like this, Shion could probably tempt me to kiss her with that laughing face....*fears*:love:
But then I was wondering, how the heck and where would I be kissing her.... Her mouth alone looks like it could bite off my head in 1 go....*feeeeaaaars*:love::love::love::love:
AAhem....anyway, even with scaryness like that, I still can't forgive Shion for what she did to poor Rika...:upset:
Bullying Rika and making her cry at school like that is unforgiveable after all.....:eyespin: :eyespin: :eyespin: :eyespin:
Then there is only Rena left for me with high enough scary level after all:love::love::love::love:
Rena....I miss ebil Rena ;_;
why exactly did Rika to try to kill Shion anyway? i don't understand. is it cause she's asking too many questions about Satoshi?
Rika told K1 that she will protect him in watanagashi-hen 3 (ep 7), may be thats the reason, or part of the reason...
The second Rika appeared at the house, i knew we'd see the scene from episode 05.. it was so hard to watch.
Anyway.. Nii-pa.. ;_____;
Paranoia833
2006-08-22, 11:12
why exactly did Rika to try to kill Shion anyway? i don't understand. is it cause she's asking too many questions about Satoshi?
Well that's kind of assumin she WAS trying to kill Shion. We have no idea what was in that syringe. It could be the fabled murder-drug, on the other hand it could be sedatives similar to the stuff the doctor tried to administer to Keiichi in chapter 3, after all the nurse said there was a possibility of a strong reaction like that. Guess we'll have to wait and see where Rika got them from.
theacefrehley
2006-08-22, 12:13
Well
I'm not totally sure if on Onikakushi Mion managed to shot Keiichi
I mean... The scene is cut to Keiichi hitting the girls
Anyone can confirm this?
Since Keiichi was in, kind of, the same state as Shion now, maybe this medicine is something to help. I don't believe Rika would intend to kill Shion, as well as Mion and Rena with Keiichi on Onikakushi. I'm almost 100% certain that those snake eyes on Onikakushi were just hallucinations, the girls weren't bad people...
Magnificent episode, and it's funny to see Shion's actual situation when she called K1 (annoyed and mocking him) :heh:
Why is it that the "recipient" of the injection has to attack their throats? Tomitake clawed his throat (in the TIPS it's been said that there is a suspicion of substance use), K1 did that too (I actually thought that the syringe in the penalty game was a marker, but this episode shocked me by giving the actual injection), and finally Rika stabbed herself in the neck.
Can't wait to see Satoko in fun-fun underground torture chamber (maybe)...this might be one of the things that will break Mion....
Deathkillz
2006-08-22, 14:49
HOLY HELL...this eps blew me off my chair >.<
at last the truth about rika's death and why she stabbed herself...but in this case she did bring in onto herself trying to assasinate shion...but why didnt she charge at shion with the knife instead of killing herself? O.o
that onibaba got wht she deserved...a face lift at the hands of a psyco shion with a whip...
hmm so its was shion who initially tortured K1...looking forward to the next ep :D
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i233/deathkillz_2006/snapshot20060822204115.jpg
Next episode, the decisive scene that catapulted Satoko to the top of my favorite characters list. Also happens to be the scene that got me bawling. :(
A revelation came to me while I was sleeping.
The extra "food" Shion made was actually Rika's body she hacked up and used.
A revelation came to me while I was sleeping.
The extra "food" Shion made was actually Rika's body she hacked up and used.
actually didn't she dump her body at the shrine?
actually didn't she dump her body at the shrine?
This is Meakashi-hen. We all know she dumps both Rika and Satoko's bodies in the old "well" by the end of it.
BakaOnna
2006-08-22, 17:12
About Rena:
Even though I do believe most of what Keiichi saw in Onikakushi-hen are hallucinations, I still believe Rena is definitely not as innocent as she is. Let's see... we've been told by Oishi that Rena has moved away from Hinamizawa, hurt people in her school, mentioned the name Oyashiro-sama, and went back to Hinamizawa. She tells Keiichi in Onikakushi-hen that she understands what its like to be watched by Oyashiro-sama at night, and stuff about being "demoned away."
In Watanagashi-hen we find out she has super detective skills. I can't remember if she mentions anything about Oyashiro-sama. From what we've seen, I think Rena was the only one out of the group that survived in Watanagashi-hen. Oh, and Rena also seemed to have either known or found about Keiichi entering the shrine.
Then in the beginning of this arc, Rena once again tells us about Oyashiro-sama possessing her. Shion even says she would not want to cross pass with her (or something of that sort). So far, Shion, even in her crazed disillusions, still won't do anything to her, except when she mentions joking about striking a nail into her back in ep. 19. Coincidence? I think not.
Therefore, Rena. Is. One. Freaky. Girl!
That's why I think once we get into the next arc, we'll be able to compare Rena's Oyashiro-sama with Rika's Oyashiro-sama.
Something else I just remembered. Back in episode 2 or 3, Rika mentions how poison is her preference of murder weapon, slow and painful. This could mean that the syringe was filled with a poison. Plus, after Rika got injected with the syringe, she didn't look so well.
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/302/poisontf4.jpg
BakaOnna
2006-08-22, 18:39
^ Yep, that's the one. I'm sure the animators didn't add that in just for kicks. I've noticed that whatever a character says, even if it was meant to be a joke, should always be takened seriously.
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/302/poisontf4.jpg^.....Nanodesu.....*nipa* <3
Rika is such a good girl ^^;
So far, Shion, even in her crazed disillusions, still won't do anything to her, except when she mentions joking about striking a nail into her back in ep. 19. Coincidence? I think not.Rena is just awesome that way:love:
Hopefully nothing too bad will happen to Rena, but then on the other hand I also want Rena to have more screentime....>_<
Therefore, Rena. Is. One. Freaky. Girl!
That's why I think once we get into the next arc, we'll be able to compare Rena's Oyashiro-sama with Rika's Oyashiro-sama.ebil rena ;_;
*gets more hyped about the next arc*
Deathkillz
2006-08-22, 18:53
i wanna see more of rena with her machete XD yep a stand off between rena's and rika's Oyashiro-sama sounds cool :p
Fishbait
2006-08-23, 03:53
Yeah it was pretty neat they put it in there back in Episode 2. Hehe, also the fansub noticed it and put it up as a hint.
White Manju Bun
2006-08-23, 18:11
Wow nice catch about Rika and the poison I missed that. Also something else I found on another forum (sorry if this was posted in epi 19 thread I didnt read it) but has to do with 20 as well
Ok remember when back when "Mion" kills Kei even though she's already dead...did Shion use the underground cave where she "saw" Satoshi in to get to Kei? I guess we'll find out soon enough. Also I want to know at the end of the first arc, when Kei's kills Rena and Mion, I should assume now it was Shion
dang I love this anime...
Sinestra
2006-08-23, 19:03
~_~ I know, I even surprise myself sometimes...:heh:
(I also surprised all the prison guards when I escaped mental prison:eyespin:)
>_>
<_<
(the thing with mental prison is a joke btw...no really! I swear^^;; )
Now that I think more about it, if I woke up to something like this, Shion could probably tempt me to kiss her with that laughing face....*fears*:love:
But then I was wondering, how the heck and where would I be kissing her.... Her mouth alone looks like it could bite off my head in 1 go....*feeeeaaaars*:love::love::love::love:
AAhem....anyway, even with scaryness like that, I still can't forgive Shion for what she did to poor Rika...:upset:
Bullying Rika and making her cry at school like that is unforgiveable after all.....:eyespin: :eyespin: :eyespin: :eyespin:
Then there is only Rena left for me with high enough scary level after all:love::love::love::love:
Rena....I miss ebil Rena ;_;
I wouldnt worry about where to kiss her i think you might want to check to see if your missing your spleen or a kidney when you woke up. I agree with you as much as i feel Shions pain and i do think she has been really mistreated what she did Rika really sucked. Its hard to wish death on anyone in this series plus having to watch the people die in diffrent ways in each ark is a mind Fu*k
There's one little detail that Shion forgets that I'm sure is resolved in the next episode. Shion's clothes is covered in blood and you can't exactly greet someone coming over for dinner like that. I guess Shion will have enough time for a quick change in clothes before Satoko arrives. There's that and Shion didn't exactly cover Rika's body completely with newspaper and the blood stained walls doesn't help either.:uhoh:
I<3killerloli's
2006-08-24, 14:18
^ I think once Satako finds that out, it will already be too late :(
Another definite great episode, altough I assumed at first that I knew what was mostely going to take place in it.., its amazing on how some small details can realy stirr up a speculation ;)
What I belived was going to happen on this episode in fact did.., which was mostely related to Shion killing Rika.., however as I mencioned before.., alot of what lead to this realy caught me by surprise.
I thought at first it was Mion who actualy was to lure Rika to her house.., just for the purpose of later then, calling Satoko to lure her in the end; so.. needless to say that I was a bit off here :p
Up until now only on Himatsubushi-hen had we a clear view that there was moreto Rika then meets the eye, so what I was expecting regarding this aspect on this episode was that when the time came.., Rika herself decided to take her own life.., since she already knew she was going to die.
However this episode emphasized alot more aspects, which in fact ended up making the entire process more "compleat".
All the hints so far have lead me to belive that there definitly is something supernatural about Rika.., the possibility that she herself is the re-incarnation of Oyashiro-same seems more and more a reality to me.
On Himatsubushi-hen we saw that Rika already knew on how the curse was going to unfold.., and given certain hints on the previous arcs, I belive it is a possibility (and specialy after what happened on this episode), that she had an important part in giving the Curse its continuation.
Hence.. it is definitly even possible for the death of her Father to have been cause by her, all in favour of Oyashiro-sama's Curse.
From what we saw in this episode when Shion confronted her.., she said it herself that she as a Miko is able to speak with Oyashiro-sama.., and despite this aspect beeing mostely folklore.., this time when applied to Rika, and giving all of what she knew and said..
The only explination is that she in fact Can.., or even as I previously said IS connected in reality to Oyashiro-sama.
Something that again.., would explain on why she then attacked Shion.
On Rika's words.., the ones who would truly repent would not be influenced by the curse.., but Shion payed no attention to that.., and after acting as she did towards Rika, definitly showed us where she stod.
Hence.., why Rika then did what she did...; if she ever knew if it was realy Mion or Shion I cannot say.., however what I belive it matters, "that" person was the target.
Unfortunatly Rika was not sucessful this time(?).., however during the process a syringe contaning some sort of drug was revealed.
It seems now and judging by the way that Rika acted after beeing injected with the drug.., that it was the same or mostely the same that Jirou was infected with.., and also later on on Onikakushi-hen.. Keiichi aswell ?
So.. was Rika truly behind Jirou's death and Keiichi's final moments on the telephone cabinet ?(the events on Onikakushi-hen toke a diferent path.., and Rika would probably have a diferent opinion of Keiichi as she did on Meakashi-hen / Watanagashi-hen)
And let us not forget about her father.., which was also poisoned aswell; altough with a diferent type of drug none the less.., it realy realy seems possible that Rika was behind of what happened on these particular events.
It was a great episode in giving high-light to these possibilities.
But it didn't stay there.., it also provided another good moment on Shion's thought process regarding Satoko.
From what we can conclude now.., Shion's revenge started simply based on the people whom she belives where "behind" Oyashiro-sama's Curse legacy.., the Three houses of Hinamizawa.., but all and all she never letted go the grudge she had on Satoko.
As she herself was saying.., if a Hojou required to be sacrificed.., why not Satoshi's sister instead.., if only she who was always crying and leaning on her brother had been taken away instead..
Thus.., even after having "taken care of" the three Heads of Hinamizawa.., she toke the chance to "take care" of Satoko aswell..
And.. something that surprised me here was.. it turned out to be Satoko making the phone call..., indeed making things even more easier for Shion.
On a last note now regarding Satoshi.., is he realy indeed at the bottom of the well or is his body in the marsh ?
I was begining to think and looking back at Rena's words on Onikakushi-hen towards Keiichi.., that she was definitly also involved in the continuation of Oyashiro-sama's Curse.., as acting as a catalyst and probably even excutioner of some of the events.., hence.., I was begining to think that she was the one who was behind Satoshi's death.
However.. if Shion realy did find Satoshi at the bottom of the Sonozaki well, this theory is compleatly nulifed.
But thing is.., Shion belives she found him.., we never actualy where able to tell if it was true or not.., for as far as what we saw goes.., it could have only been Shion's "wanting to belive" that ended up giving her that notion.., and even image of Satoshi.
So currently.., I am not sure what to think.., however.., something still puzzles me.., if Satoshi wasn't taken out by Rena.., then by who.. :heh:
Definitly a great episode.., definitly alot more grounds to base speculations, and definitly.. I'm starting to become as crazy as Shion trying to unveil all of this :p
Thanks for reading :)
Bloodseeker
2006-08-25, 06:47
Just watched episodes 13-20. I'm kinda glad that Shion turned out to be the culprit of all of the demented stuff instead of Mion. Mion's my favorite Higurashi character by far... I thought for sure that this 'chapter' was going to make me hate her enough to put her on my "good characters turned failure" list.
On that note, I know that Shion is a demented bitch and Rika is adorable ("ni pah!") and all, but I'm still kinda tempted to make that scene where Shion slapped Rika around my avatar... that just screamed avatar material. Actually, I think I will.
Edit: Meh, didn't look anywhere near as good as I thought it would...
FatPianoBoy
2006-08-26, 12:39
I'm thinking that "Oyashiro-sama's" voice is actually a trick by the Sonozakis. Rika never specified how or when she heard it. If she recieves it in dreams, someone whispering in her ear while she sleeps could definitely influence her dreams.
imac2much
2006-09-29, 09:44
Getting warmer. But you missed a major point - how on earth would Rika know that Mion's a "torture freak?" There is silent hint there.
I remember reading this hint as I was watching ep 20, and didn't know what to make of it. But now that I know that Rika was actually tortured in Watanagashihen (and not suicide like the beginning of ep 5), it makes sense. Why did they show a scene from 5th arc at the beginning of the 2nd arc??? It just makes everything even MORE confusing than intended right? With knowledge solely from the anime, we wouldn't have been able to piece these hints together.... Now I understand DEEN leaving things out due to time, but why make entire changes like that?
chrno_the_sinner
2006-09-29, 09:48
I remember reading this hint as I was watching ep 20, and didn't know what to make of it. But now that I know that Rika was actually tortured in Watanagashihen (and not suicide like the beginning of ep 5), it makes sense. Why did they show a scene from 5th arc at the beginning of the 2nd arc??? It just makes everything even MORE confusing than intended right? With knowledge solely from the anime, we wouldn't have been able to piece these hints together.... Now I understand DEEN leaving things out due to time, but why make entire changes like that?
You don't find out the difference until Minagoroshi-hen, and by the time that came out, the animation for that specific section might've been finished already.
imac2much
2006-09-29, 13:22
Ah, so maybe the animation studio just wrongfully assumed the 'scene' happens in both arcs....?
Hopeful Death
2006-09-29, 13:28
On that note, there was a line in the anime in Watanagashi that didn't appear in Meakashi.
That would be Shion's remark that she "performed the Watangashi skillfully"
Is there significance to that? Because in Meakashi they never show her doing any Watanagashi.
LostBlue
2006-09-29, 13:49
ah, what?
That's probably a mistranslation/misinterpretation. Shion never said that.
Was it the scene where she's screaming after she stabs Keiichi in the stomach? Then she was saying "I DID IT!"
ah, what?
That's probably a mistranslation/misinterpretation. Shion never said that.
Was it the scene where she's screaming after she stabs Keiichi in the stomach? Then she was saying "I DID IT!"
It was when she brought Keiichi into the torture chamber to show him her sins. After she shows him the device, she said "she performed the Watangashi skillfully."
LostBlue
2006-09-29, 21:51
ah, that part. Shion was lying. Ever since Shion confessed in front of Rena & Kei-chan and became the the heiress "Mion," she was throwing lies after lies after lies. She wanted to see if either one (epecially Keiichi) would notice that she wasn't their friend Mion. IMO, it was the best scene/internal monologue in Meakashi Hen which DEEN sadly dropped.
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