Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[bladeofdarkness]

you have a weird definition of evil then
while its TRUE that many people in geass did bad things
not many of them did outright EVIL things
and its a pretty big strech to suggest only euphie is innocent

[Nobodyman9]

you have a weird definition of evil then
while its TRUE that many people in geass did bad things
not many of them did outright EVIL things
and its a pretty big strech to suggest only euphie is innocent
You make a good point blade. Almost everyone is bad/evil in the Code Geass world. Well, same goes for the real world. Or at least everyone has done some kind of evil action or had some kind of evil thought. Of course good and evil depends on the person's point of view.

Going back to my example, I suppose you could make a case for Shirley since she shot Villetta, but that was only an evil action, and some people may not even consider it evil depending on their point of view. But the point is that she didn't have evil intentions. She didn't shoot her out of a lack of morality, thinking it was perfectly okay. She did it because she was an emotional wreck. For 99% of the show (at least) we've see that Shirley has nothing but good intentions.

Another example is Kallen. Now Kallen a lot of bad things. She's killed lots of people without hesitation and has even said some pretty nasty things, but most of us don't consider her evil. We just see her as a soldier in a time of war fighting for what she believes in. And since those intentions are quite noble it makes it all the better.

So yeah, it really all depends on your point of view, but I could hardly say that every single person in Code Geass except for Euphie is, strictly speaking, evil.

[Paladinoras]

That list on the last page....

KALLEN GOT SO LOW ON INTELLIGENCE AND CHARISMA?

Damn you, C.C

Jealous streak much?

[Let'sFightingLove]

That list on the last page....

KALLEN GOT SO LOW ON INTELLIGENCE AND CHARISMA?

Damn you, C.C

Jealous streak much?

Yet the only thing altered was her Int and Charisma; why?

I suppose it's possible, but why do her other stats stay intact?

It makes more sense to me, taking into account your character predilection, that this chart isn't wrong, you're just looking for exploits to justify Kallen's position as the best character ever, in your opinion.

Of course...I could be wrong, but I believe it's the combative stance you take over impurities regarding your favorite character that makes my judgement unconditional in itself.

instead of assuming it to be the heinous work of some greater evil that poses threat to your opinion, let's leave it at innocent until proven guilty with some substantial fact.

EDIT: I found the unadulterated one!!

http://i37.tinypic.com/r1fu3a.jpg

[bladeofdarkness]

actually the reason kallen's intelligence states is odd is becauise kallen is stated to be at the top of the class despite almost never showing up for class
which means that when she attends ashford academy mostly as a hobby, she still gets grades around the same level as lelouch
which makes her low intelligence stats rather odd

[Revolutionist]

Don't forget Shirley (well, I guess you could make a case with the whole shooting Villetta fiasco)

Shirley had every right to shoot Villetta for being a bitch and trying to use her at a time of emotional turmoil.

[Rising Dragon]

Yet that's not the reason why she shot Villetta.

[Aquaman OS]

actually the reason kallen's intelligence states is odd is becauise kallen is stated to be at the top of the class despite almost never showing up for class
which means that when she attends ashford academy mostly as a hobby, she still gets grades around the same level as lelouch
which makes her low intelligence stats rather odd

Like Suzaku she's book smart and can get get good grades when the material is available for study, but she's not very cunning, quite naive and easily manipulated.
She can do well in high school math and science but overly complicated political moves go right over her head.

Lelouch seems to equate intelligence with how politically and tactically savvy they are in this chart (I think intelligence might have been a mistranslation) which is why Kaguya Tohdou and Ougi rank so high. Kallen's not very much of either.

[Meatrose]

Yeah well, it's a military chart. The intelligence is bound to be related to politics and warfare, not actual intelligence. Just like how I assume the charisma is the kind of charisma you need in order to be a successful military leader or a politician.

[bladeofdarkness]

more like "charisma" in "would make a good political representetive or leader"
a 19 year old girl hardly makes for a very convincing ambassador (kaguya, being an exception)

[Rising Dragon]

Since its Code Geass, age isn't the issue. After all, we have 17yo/18yo Lelouch convincing people to start a war with the most successful power bloc in the world.

Let's just say that being a tsundere is really really bad for politics.

[fukarming]

You make a good point blade. Almost everyone is bad/evil in the Code Geass world. Well, same goes for the real world. Or at least everyone has done some kind of evil action or had some kind of evil thought. Of course good and evil depends on the person's point of view.

Going back to my example, I suppose you could make a case for Shirley since she shot Villetta, but that was only an evil action, and some people may not even consider it evil depending on their point of view. But the point is that she didn't have evil intentions. She didn't shoot her out of a lack of morality, thinking it was perfectly okay. She did it because she was an emotional wreck. For 99% of the show (at least) we've see that Shirley has nothing but good intentions.

Another example is Kallen. Now Kallen a lot of bad things. She's killed lots of people without hesitation and has even said some pretty nasty things, but most of us don't consider her evil. We just see her as a soldier in a time of war fighting for what she believes in. And since those intentions are quite noble it makes it all the better.



So yeah, it really all depends on your point of view, but I could hardly say that every single person in Code Geass except for Euphie is, strictly speaking, evil.

That is exactly my point. Evil or not depend on your point of view. Use a more extreme example: when I see bugs in my house, I kill them without warning and without trying to let them escape first. It is a normal as a human but if I am captured in the "bug" kingdom, I will be branded as a murderer.

In that sense, even Clovis/ Cornalia is not bad/evil, they are simply doing their jobs. The 11s rebel and they crush them. It is perfectly fine in the eyes of Britainnia.

At the end, it all comes down to "what is your definition of bad and evil?"

[bladeofdarkness]

somethings ARE evil by default
massacring the population of an entire ghetto to cover up the fact that you did something you shouldnt have done in the first place is, by default, evil
dont confuse actions like killing someone in battle with stuff like that
killing people for simply living somewhere is hardly morally questionable based on view points
its flat out evil

[Knightrunner]

http://i36.tinypic.com/bdv81k.jpg

Thoughts?

Does that say "Charisma" for the third word for the stat charts?

Never mind.

[Nobodyman9]

Does that say "Charisma" for the third word for the stat charts?
Yep. The stats are...

Intelligence
Combat Ability
Charisma
Loyalty

[Revolutionist]

Yet that's not the reason why she shot Villetta.

Yeah I know that, but what was said implied that Shirley wasn't really free of sin because she shot Villetta to protect Lelouch. I was merely pointing out that even if you ignore the fact that Shirley was emotionally unstable at the moment, which in and of itself lessens the "crime", Villetta got what she deserved for using a girl who had just lost her father and put her in harm's way just so she could get a promotion. She didn't do anything wrong by shooting Villetta.

[Nobodyman9]

Yeah I know that, but what was said implied that Shirley wasn't really free of sin because she shot Villetta to protect Lelouch. I was merely pointing out that even if you ignore the fact that Shirley was emotionally unstable at the moment, which in and of itself lessens the "crime", Villetta got what she deserved for using a girl who had just lost her father and put her in harm's way just so she could get a promotion. She didn't do anything wrong by shooting Villetta.
Well, again that all depends on your views of good and evil. Some people believe it doesn't matter what kind of sin a person has done or what wrong they have doen to you, it's still not right to kill them or at least endanger their lives.

Anyway, I didn't state that Shirley was at fault or had committed a sin by shooting Villetta, I simply said you could make a case for it. Personally, I don't blame Shirley in the slightest for shooting Villetta.

[Knightrunner]

i'm surprise chiba, asahina, ohgi have abnormally high intelligant stats where it almost matches Toudo.

Tamaki looks like the lowest baseline.lol.

[Aquaman OS]

Tamaki was useless at basically everything. He was always shot down in every battle, failed at nearly every task Zero gave him, and got little to no respect from anyone. All he really had going for him was persistance good fortune to not get killed and that the Order liked and or felt sorry for him so they let him stick around.

[gaffer7]

Tamaki was useless at basically everything. He was always shot down in every battle, failed at nearly every task Zero gave him, and got little to no respect from anyone. All he really had going for him was persistance good fortune to not get killed and that the Order liked and or felt sorry for him so they let him stick around.

In other words, basically there just for comic relief :D Sumeragi's stats are really high, obviously a very valuable playing piece, ha ha!

[bladeofdarkness]

but tamaki's scores are STILL way too low for it to be anything but a joke (his loyalty states at least should be higher then chiba or minami's)
and since lelouch is not likely to joke around with his personal evaluations, its more likely to be C.C's doing (since she makes fun of him all the time)
it also explains why C.C herself is not on the list (as she would not compare herself with lelouch's underlings)

[Paladinoras]

Like Suzaku she's book smart and can get get good grades when the material is available for study, but she's not very cunning, quite naive and easily manipulated.
She can do well in high school math and science but overly complicated political moves go right over her head.

Lelouch seems to equate intelligence with how politically and tactically savvy they are in this chart (I think intelligence might have been a mistranslation) which is why Kaguya Tohdou and Ougi rank so high. Kallen's not very much of either.

But C.C made the list. And that would not explain why Rakshata got maximum points for Intelligence if he was talking about political moves and such. Which means..

I should not be talking about this anymore. Lol

[ZeroSama]

But C.C made the list. And that would not explain why Rakshata got maximum points for Intelligence if he was talking about political moves and such. Which means..

I should not be talking about this anymore. Lol

I think its more to do with their competency in their paticular field rather than general intelligence.

Kaguya is a great politicain, Laksharta is a great scientist, Diethart is a great PR man and Todo is a great Strategist.

Kallen just solves her problems by bulldozing through them(she does it damn well so meh) and doesn't bother with tactics, let alone strategy.

[Nobodyman9]

What's more, I really can't see C.C. going out of her way to give Kallen an understated report just to spite her. I mean, there may be some sense of jealousy or a rift between them, but I don't think it's so much that C.C. would falsify reports that are vital to Lelouch.

[bladeofdarkness]

its the tamaki one that makes me think its C.C's doing
tamaki's loyalty score would be higher then most of the others if it wasnt a joke

[Nobodyman9]

its the tamaki one that makes me think its C.C's doing
tamaki's loyalty score would be higher then most of the others if it wasnt a joke
Well, C.C. can afford to joke about Tamaki since...well, that's pretty much what he is :heh: Plus we've seen that C.C. has a tendency to tease/mock him.

[CC]

I don't normally comment on these things, and no I'm not being biased because I obviously like C.C.'s character, but this is really childish.

Just because you like Kallen, Paladinoras, doesn't mean that her "competition" C.C. is spiteful or childish and does everything "bad" towards Kallen. I think they made it pretty obvious C.C. is generally apathetic. Is it that hard to handle that Kallen might not be that strong in intellectual skill? It doesn't mean she's stupid, you know. Kallen is still smart, but her strengths in the battlefield don't rely on intelligence; they rely on pure skill and reflex.

Tamaki wasn't exactly THAT loyal, not like Kallen anyway, he was just infatuated with being Zero's bro. When it came down to it Tamaki questioned Zero more easily than someone like Kallen did. It's not that surprising, I think.

I'm pretty sure the staff just made this chart without anyone in mind. I'm positive they weren't sitting there thinking "let's make it seem like C.C. wrote it out of spite!"... It's not in her character to do so, anyway.

Edit: This was actually one of the smartest things I've seen said in here.


instead of assuming it to be the heinous work of some greater evil that poses threat to your opinion, let's leave it at innocent until proven guilty with some substantial fact.

Again, let me restate because I know some people here will jump to twist my words, I think this is more about strategic intelligence. It's not Kallen's job to focus on strategy, she's Lelouch's raw force. Just because all her statistics aren't ~perfect~ doesn't mean C.C. sabotaged her. Sigh.

[bladeofdarkness]

tamaki's loyalty not being the same as kallen is hardly a factor
tamaki is MUCH more loyal then either chiba or minami who openly question lelouch's actions
kallen gets a 100 score on loyalty
tamaki gets a 10
thats not a small difference, its a major one

[CC]

tamaki's loyalty not being the same as kallen is hardly a factor
tamaki is MUCH more loyal then either chiba or minami who openly question lelouch's actions
kallen gets a 100 score on loyalty
tamaki gets a 10
thats not a small difference, its a major one
I still don't think that means C.C. was trying to sabotage anyone. The fact of the matter is you can likely chalk it up to Sunrise fail. It's not like they haven't screwed up names and details in background shots or quick images of data consoles in the past. It's a frequent failure of theirs.

That said, I doubt people like Tamaki or Kallen would ever even see the chart really. I don't remember where it was displayed, but wouldn't you think it'd be for the higher ups and for strategic purposes only? Correct me if I'm wrong, this is just a logical guess here.

[bladeofdarkness]

it implies that who ever made that chart is making a joke at tamaki's expense
and since C.C is more prone to make jokes at tamaki's expense...
it also makes sense for C.C to not be on such a chart if she made it (despite her being one of lelouch's most capable ambassadors)
since she would not view herself as one of his underlings

P.S
by higher ups, do you mean people like toudo and kaguya ?
because they are also on the chart

[CC]

C.C. didn't have a specific job, she worked "behind the scenes" and for the longest time no one really knew what she did. Not even Kallen knew until seeing C.C. in the Zero outfit and then later getting to know her better -- the Knights accused C.C. of simply being "Zero's woman", for example. I don't think it would be right for her to be on that list no matter who made it, and honestly, it was probably Lelouch if Sunrise even considered it (which I don't think they did). Storing data on someone like C.C. might be a bad idea anyway, since Britannia was always on her ass.

I honestly don't think very highly of the Black Knights and their loyalty anyway given the end of R2, really. Only Kallen and Jeremiah deserve a high score there as far as I'm concerned. Also like I said before, it might just be Sunrise fail.

Oh well, that's just my opinion and all I have to say really. I know you're not accusing anyone of anything malicious but it still seems like this is being read into too deeply.

[Rising Dragon]

I think we can all agree that Tamaki's stats were put so low for comic relief, as is on par with his character. However, the only reason why anyone would assume that the character stats were drawn up due to the particular likes and dislikes of another character sounds to me like they're looking for ample reason to bash a character, so I'd suggest we all just drop the subject before I start reporting everyone and bringing the mods down on all of us. They don't particularly like this fandom anymore, after all.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

Uh, you guys don't think C.C. seriously made the chart, right? You were just joking around surely..

[eaglei3]

I could actually see where Tamaki's loyalty got such a low rating. He was one of the ones who always wondered why he never got one of the promotions when changes to the Black Knights occurred. He always acted like he should have been given higher roles. Most of his 'best buddy' with Zero speeches could appear to be him trying to earn a higher promotion.

While in the end he may have had some care for actual Zero, it is hard to place him as loyal when he is always questioning his position in the chain of command.

[Lolipopo]

Uh, you guys don't think C.C. seriously made the chart, right? You were just joking around surely..

I'm pretty sure (or hope seriously) they were. It's just that people on both sides are taking the joke too far, as usual.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

Completely different subject, does anyone know anything about the AU manga they licensed last year called Code Geass: Tales of an Alternate Shogunate? I completely forgot it even existed until just now. The art looks...weird, but the storyline seems interesting.

[Nobodyman9]

Uh, you guys don't think C.C. seriously made the chart, right? You were just joking around surely..
Actually it was the magical fart fairies. They're a secret society that lives under lower New Jersey who can be contracted to do oddjobs. Lelouch was a bit short-handed at the time so he contracted them to make his charts for a nominal fee. (honestly, I don't know, and I don't why we're making such a big deal of it :heh: )

Completely different subject, does anyone know anything about the AU manga they licensed last year called Code Geass: Tales of an Alternate Shogunate? I completely forgot it even existed until just now. The art looks...weird, but the storyline seems interesting.
I'm not familiar with it myself, but I've heard that it's god-awful.

[Kid Ying]

That list on the last page....

KALLEN GOT SO LOW ON INTELLIGENCE AND CHARISMA?

Damn you, C.C

Jealous streak much?
Wasn't that chart supposed to be a military document about qualifications in the battlefield? Well, even though Kallen was a helluva smart girl in the school, i don't think being a top grade student in japanese or something like that makes you a good strategist... But i don't know. I think Kallen is smarter than the chart says... It's not like she had much chance to show something... About charisma, well, Kallen is a tough one to break and is easily controlled by emotions. I can't fight the chart on that statement. :heh:

Either way, it's just a chart...

[Kyero Fox]

I think its more to do with their competency in their paticular field rather than general intelligence.

Kaguya is a great politicain, Laksharta is a great scientist, Diethart is a great PR man and Todo is a great Strategist.

Kallen just solves her problems by bulldozing through them(she does it damn well so meh) and doesn't bother with tactics, let alone strategy.

todo a stratagist? last thing I remember was Zero ordering and stratigizing.

[Charred Knight]

todo a stratagist? last thing I remember was Zero ordering and stratigizing.

Their was that time he took over and promptly lost in like 10 seconds

[bladeofdarkness]

would people get the fuck off toudo's back already
LELOUCH was the one who LOST that battle for toudo

the moment word spread that the leader of the rebellion had up and left the whole thing started to fall apart
you need to remember that zero was the glue that was binding all the varius resistance groups together
he leaves, and word of it gets out, and suddenly the troops lose moral and become unsure of what to do
cornellia specificlly ASKED suzaku to keep the fact that SHE was hurt secret to PREVENT exactly that sort of thing from happening to her troops
if lelouch had stayed the black rebellion would not have crumbled as badly in such a short time and would probably had won out (he also took their most powerful weapon with him)

[Lolipopo]

Wasn't that chart supposed to be a military document about qualifications in the battlefield? Well, even though Kallen was a helluva smart girl in the school, i don't think being a top grade student in japanese or something like that makes you a good strategist... But i don't know. I think Kallen is smarter than the chart says... It's not like she had much chance to show something... About charisma, well, Kallen is a tough one to break and is easily controlled by emotions. I can't fight the chart on that statement. :heh:

Either way, it's just a chart...


You said it all. And I guess those who dare to laugh at Kallen's stats about the strategist thing at least, can compare to her when it comes to school grade, of course.
Yeah do better, or be quiet, that's it :'P
For her to have top notch grades while being always absent, our cherry girl has to have some awesome skills : D

[Nobodyman9]

For her to have top notch grades while being always absent, our cherry girl has to have some awesome skills : D
I guess participation doesn't count for too much at Ashford :heh:

[bladeofdarkness]

its actually pretty funny
because both lelouch AND suzaku get yelled at for missing too much school time in ep 21

[Nobodyman9]

its actually pretty funny
because both lelouch AND suzaku get yelled at for missing too much school time in ep 21
I know EXACTLY what was going through Lelouch's mind during that scene.

"Dumb broad. I could bomb this whole school if I wanted to. I could take the whole school hostage. Yeah, in fact, that's what I'll do. I'll take the whole school hostage."

:heh:

[Revolutionist]

would people get the fuck off toudo's back already
LELOUCH was the one who LOST that battle for toudo

the moment word spread that the leader of the rebellion had up and left the whole thing started to fall apart
you need to remember that zero was the glue that was binding all the varius resistance groups together
he leaves, and word of it gets out, and suddenly the troops lose moral and become unsure of what to do
cornellia specificlly ASKED suzaku to keep the fact that SHE was hurt secret to PREVENT exactly that sort of thing from happening to her troops
if lelouch had stayed the black rebellion would not have crumbled as badly in such a short time and would probably had won out (he also took their most powerful weapon with him)

Todo had his troops charge the gov't bureau from the front, head on at those machine gun turrets + Guilford and the Glaston knights. That's a pretty dumb strategy. The Black Knights lose their numerical advantage thanks to Todo's idiotic moves, which is what lets Guilford order a charge and end the battle right there.

Gawain wouldn't make much difference since it was tied up with the Siegfried.

[bladeofdarkness]

the gawin can turn the government building to dust with a few blasts
thats not the problem
the problem is that once zero leaves, the entire army falls apart and becomes disorganized
if guilford and the GK knew that cornellia was injured, the same result would have happened to them (which is exactly why cornellia asks suzaku to keep it secret)
the japanese forces lost not for lack of numbers, but because they fall apart from having the guy who is LEADING the entire attack suddenly leaving unexpectedly without saying anything

and THAT is not toudo's fault
its entirely lelouch's

[Zetsubou Bunny]

I know EXACTLY what was going through Lelouch's mind during that scene.

"Dumb broad. I could bomb this whole school if I wanted to. I could take the whole school hostage. Yeah, in fact, that's what I'll do. I'll take the whole school hostage."

:heh:

Lol. :heh:

[Revolutionist]

the gawin can turn the government building to dust with a few blasts
thats not the problem
the problem is that once zero leaves, the entire army falls apart and becomes disorganized
if guilford and the GK knew that cornellia was injured, the same result would have happened to them (which is exactly why cornellia asks suzaku to keep it secret)
the japanese forces lost not for lack of numbers, but because they fall apart from having the guy who is LEADING the entire attack suddenly leaving unexpectedly without saying anything

and THAT is not toudo's fault
its entirely lelouch's

That's not Lelouch's fault, at least not entirely anyway. His command staff could have hidden the fact that Zero was absent like they did with, IDK, OUGI getting shot? Nobody told them to tell everybody that Zero disappeared...

[bladeofdarkness]

except suddenly toudo's in charge of the entire battle
and zero stops giving orders
its kinda hard to hide the fact that the guy who used to give all the orders suddenly gets replaced and disappears from the battlefield
diethard TRIES to hide that fact, but it doesnt work
its not as easy as hiding the fact that ougi is suddenly out of action
this is the voice on the radio for every fighting unit in the field suddenly changing for no reason

[Aquaman OS]

Lelouch lost that battle for them when blew his chance to capture Cornelia. First by trying to Geass answers out of her on the spot allowing Jeremiah to show up, rather than capture her and Geass her at his leisure later on (another example of his personal agenda screwing over the BKs.) and then by opting to go find Nunnally after stalling Jeremiah instead of heading back for Cornelia, allowing Suzaku to recover her and basically ending any chance of the BKs having a long term victory.

It was already over by the time Toudou took over as nothing could save the BKs without a royal hostage.

[Revolutionist]

How would the hostage help them? A guy like Schneizel would never give in to terrorists' demands, even if they had Cornelia. Charles would care even less. Assuming Lelouch took Cornelia to Ashford and they captured the Gov't bureau, they still had to deal with Schneizel's fleet that would arriving in Japan in a few days. Even with the Gawain the Black Knights still wouldn't be able to deal with Schneizel. After all, Cornelia almost took it out with a Gloucester, and Schneizel would have Suzaku on his side, who would rip the Gawain into pieces.

The whole Black Rebellion relied on Lelouch's misconception that Charles would be forced to meet him in person if he took over Tokyo and had Cornelia as a hostage. That's a big oversight on Lelouch's part. He knows Charles threw him and Nunnaly away, and didn't give a crap when Clovis died. Why would he even care if Zero had Cornelia? And besides, knowing Lelouch had a geass Charles would never meet him 1on1 just like that, but obviously Lelouch didn't know that, so you can't hold it against him. However, the whole hostage part was kinda dumb.

[Aquaman OS]

In all honesty it wouldn't but Lelouch acted as if it would. Even he seemed to know that the BKs couldn't win a prolonged battle with Britannian reinforcements on the way.

So I guess they never had a prayer at all.

[stardrago]

If someone would make another season I think they should use elements from Kamen Rider; like remnants of both the Code-R project and the Geass Directarate making cyborg/monster solider's and during their time had gotton their hands on Lelouch's body but the world of C still in Lelouch's Geass influence knowing they would stop the flow of tome for a future grants Lelouch's body as well as his (sub)concius and V.V./Charles code during his augmentation.
His form would be similar to kamen rider Another AgitO for being a grasshopper type as well as having mysthical powers.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

Yeah, I definitely think making Code Geass into Kamen Rider would be a terrible idea.

[bladeofdarkness]

actually, they could win against reinforcements if they won against the forces already in japan
whatever forces shnizel could have brought with him, would have been at a disadvantage if the black knights had already finished wiping out the local forces
shnizel's forces would have had to fight an INVADING battle, which by defualt is much harder to do
especially when the enemy is equiped with KMF's on the same practical level as the britannians are (in some cases better)
and ESPECIALLY when the enemy's moral is riding high from having just kicked the crap out of the local forces (who were one of the most powerful armies in britannia) and finally gained their freedom after years of oppression
the KoR would not make much of a difference (they dont have their custom machines)
and with britannia already fighting against the CF and the EU, the amount of forces they can direct to japan is limited
its VERY possible that had the government buliding felll before shnizel was able to mobilize his forces, he wouldnt have came at all because it would have been a losing battle
this is not 7 years ago, and the britannian KMF's dont give them much of an edge anymore after all

but instead of facing a force of hundreds of thousends of highly motivated japanese, who are well equipped (with what ever they can take from the britannians) and well entrenched
the britannian forces have to deal with a disorgenized force that is completely unsure of what just happened to the guy leading them who abandoned them for some reason
the britannians win because the japanese forces stop becoming a single organized force

THAT was why the japanese lost during the black rebellion
not anything else
the goverment buliding can be destroyed
the zigfreid has a time limit
the lancelot has a time limit
everything CAN and WOULD be overcome with proper actions
but once organization goes out the window, there is no going back

[Revolutionist]

The Black Knights weren't going to breach the gov't bureau's defenses, regardless of whether Zero was there or not. The Gawain was damaged by Cornelia, and either Suzaku or Jeremiah could take it out of the fight. Relying on that one unit to save the day is hopeful at best considering it too has a timelimit...

There's no reason why Schneizel wouldn't come to Tokyo and crush the Black Knights himself. Not only is Britannia's credibility on the line, but the enemy isn't as strong as you make it out to be. They didn't have thousands of knightmares, in fact the only force with knightmares was the one attacking the bureau from the front, the rest were "just trash" like that Glaston dude said. This is supported by the fact taht once Guilford orders his troops to charge the Black Rebellion folds right then and there. To say that a different bunch of resistance cells would deter much less defeat Schneizel is delusional.

[Paladinoras]

Just because you like Kallen, Paladinoras, doesn't mean that her "competition" C.C. is spiteful or childish and does everything "bad" towards Kallen.

Jesus, I was just joking. I thought the Caps Lock overload would give a clue.

[bladeofdarkness]

The Black Knights weren't going to breach the gov't bureau's defenses, regardless of whether Zero was there or not. The Gawain was damaged by Cornelia, and either Suzaku or Jeremiah could take it out of the fight. Relying on that one unit to save the day is hopeful at best considering it too has a timelimit...

There's no reason why Schneizel wouldn't come to Tokyo and crush the Black Knights himself. Not only is Britannia's credibility on the line, but the enemy isn't as strong as you make it out to be. They didn't have thousands of knightmares, in fact the only force with knightmares was the one attacking the bureau from the front, the rest were "just trash" like that Glaston dude said. This is supported by the fact taht once Guilford orders his troops to charge the Black Rebellion folds right then and there. To say that a different bunch of resistance cells would deter much less defeat Schneizel is delusional.

the lancelot is out of action at that time, and an orgenised force would have been able to repel cecile and keep it out of action
she was only able to help him because all of the japanese forces were in chaos
the zigfried could have been dealt with in time and with enough firepower (cornellia and lelouch were enough to take it out the 2nd time)
if cornellia had been captured and the britannian forces were made aware of that fact ,they would have folded it then and there and surrendered
no point in trying to defend the gov building when the commander is already captured (nothing to defend)
you dont win a war by killing all the enemy soldiers, you win it by breaking the enemy's will to fight
capturing cornellia would have achived that (and the reason the black rebellion failed was exactly the same)

as for Schneizel
Schneizel is stuck using sea based forces to invade japan a second time (float units are not yet usable on mass)
only this time he's up against lelouch, who basiclly wrote the book on using territory to your advantage
and up against a people already riding high from the original victory
how long do you think his fleet would last if he tried to invade under those conditions
how long would it have even taken him to get such an invasion force organised
any air force he might have is gone by the time its in gawein range
and any sea units trying to invade are walking into a meat grinder (think D-Day, only with mecha)
he had a hard time invading that EU front in ep 3 before suzaku stepped in, and this time he's up against even better opponents with better weapons

and the britannian official himself states that the numbers advancing on the tokyo settelment number in the tens of thousands
those numbers would grown considerably once its been clear that they won the first round and kicked the local britannian forces out

the black knights COULD have won the day, if they were properly led and organised
but instead, they fell into chaos once lelouch left out of nowhere
thats not toudo's fault
thats lelouch's

[Betteroffer]

The Black Knights weren't going to breach the gov't bureau's defenses, regardless of whether Zero was there or not. The Gawain was damaged by Cornelia, and either Suzaku or Jeremiah could take it out of the fight. Relying on that one unit to save the day is hopeful at best considering it too has a timelimit...

There's no reason why Schneizel wouldn't come to Tokyo and crush the Black Knights himself. Not only is Britannia's credibility on the line, but the enemy isn't as strong as you make it out to be. They didn't have thousands of knightmares, in fact the only force with knightmares was the one attacking the bureau from the front, the rest were "just trash" like that Glaston dude said. This is supported by the fact taht once Guilford orders his troops to charge the Black Rebellion folds right then and there. To say that a different bunch of resistance cells would deter much less defeat Schneizel is delusional.

You're forgetting that before Lelouch faced Cornelia he wiped out the Britannian aerial reinforcements meaning that it all came down to land based combat at that point. Barring Seigfreid, the Britannians were left with no organized air support, and a few KMF carriers would not be able to turn the tide as the BK were stealing their own, and still had the Gawain. If Lelouch wasn't focused on hurrying to Nunally's side he could have dealt more easily with Jeremiah and broadcasted Cornelia's capture to everyone. Even after Cornelia, the Gawain still had two or three hadron shots remaining, and just one can wipe out large numbers of enemy forces. (Actually, wasn't it stated that it was a combination of Jeremiah and Cornelia's attacks that damaged the hadron cannons? If so, then there is a chance that a focused Lelouch could have avoided getting the Gawain damaged enough against Jeremiah to keep the cannons working.)

In any case, Lelouch was already in the Government Building. If he was thinking clearly he could have had C.C. face Jeremiah in the Gawain, while he snuck into the building and made the Britannians surrender with his Geass. At that point, the BK stop expending their forces, and get to capture all the remaining forces in Japan as their own. As Blade said, the BK's forces already numbered in the tens of thousands, and once the Britannians surrendered, they would aquire an equal force of KMF's, tanks, and other weapons.

Remember that even with the KoR feint Charles used and the power of being the only side with knightmares, it is still said that Britannia would not have been able to take Japan quickly enough if Suzaku hadn't killed Genbu. This time, Japan has the strategic power of Lelouch to resist against feints, equal if not superior KMF technology, and a sufficient number of forces to use that technology.

As for Tohdoh not being intelligent, the guy was responsible for the Miracle of Itsukushima; the ONLY Japanese victory against the Britannians during the invasion. A feat he accomplished without knightmares. He was also the one who helped the JLF turn the tide during Narita. During the Black Rebellion, Tohdoh stated that their main spearheading force was more of a diversion, and if they fell then the entire line would collapse. He didn't have any real option except to charge as he did. As Asahina said, it wasn't that Tohdoh lacked ability, but that he was unable to view the larger picture while in the midst of a battle, and has been mentioned, Zero was the glue that held every group together. Tohdoh was a military man, and as such was only able to command military people. Zero had the presence and charisma to pull all of the rioting Japanese, Honorary Britannians, terrorist factions, and anyone else together and make them a cohesive force, which was something that a man like Tohdoh simply couldn't do.

[Revolutionist]

Lelouch was away talking to Cornelia when Cecile and Loyd rescue Suzaku, so he couldn't be at Ashford to organize a defense, besides, Lloyd broke the disturbers with the turrets on the Avalon, Cecile just gave Suzaku a new filler, there's nothing the BKs could've done against the Avalon and its Shields. Suzaku would've been freed regardless. Besides, at that point the BK's didn't know Zero was missing, so how could they be confused? Oh wait, Ougi getting shot? That's Ougi's fault for being a tard.

Anyways, just like Siegfried could be dealt with so could the Gawain.

For argument's sake let's assume Japan is taken back...

Schneizel is no idiot, he'd have a plan to deal with Gawain and retake Japan. Btw, the D-Day analogy is fail, for one the Germans had 4 years to prepare defenses, the Japanese would only have 3 days at most to build defenses. Two, the Whermacht was highly trained and professional, the best in the world at the time, the Japanese are well a bunch of terrorists, partisans and random dudes, hardly an elite force. And three, D-day was successful because the Germans simply didn't have enough man power to fortify every possible landing spot and the beaches chosen by the Allies were the least defended. Schneizel would have a way easier time landing his forces.

Schneizel would simply launch an airborne assault at night to capture key roads, rail ways, blow up bridges and sabotage important facilities and prevent the BK's from reinforcing Tokyo, then he'd bomb the shit out of Tokyo from his massive fleet of battleships, then he'd send in his landing forces and easily take back tokyo since most of the Resistance would either be dead, shellshocked or hightailing it out of Tokyo.

[bladeofdarkness]

all of which would be nice if the subject of the debate was "what would Schneizel do to retake japan"
but since the subject is "why it wasnt toudo's fault that they black rebellion fell apart", thats not really an issue
lelouch doomed the black rebellion once he left in mid battle and caused the whole army to get disorganized
and thats all there really is to it

as for Schneizel not being an idiot...
neither is lelouch
trying to retake japan after the black knights just became an army capable of destroying the entire army HOLDING japan at the time
that would have been a pretty idiotic move to make
whatever forces he could muster, he would have to fight against a much stronger army then what he faces in the EU
and with the war against the EU and the CF on going, there was a limit to what forces he could pull

[Revolutionist]

The blattle was going sour for the black knights even before Lelouch left, it's not entirely his fault. However Todou was the one who ordered a FRONTAL assault where Britannian forces were obviously stronger.I mean, there was only Guilford, the Glaston Knights and those automated machine guns, and the first wave was completely annihilated. Todou basically had his troops charge the enemy head on, taking massive casualties and losing the numerical advantage they had. Lelouch's presence wouldn't change the fact that Todou was using a stupid strategy.

[bladeofdarkness]

toudo was the diversion, his role was to keep the best forces defending the gov building while the other forces do everything else (with little to no opposition)
the REST of the forces (that were only held together by lelouch's leadership) were suppose to take over other key points and isolate teh gov building from all sides
and lelouch was suppose to take care of cornellia
once thats done, the battle's over
the government building means nothing if the governor has been captured
guildford and the GK would effectively be fighting to defend an empty building
and once they LEARNED about that fact, then they would have been broken

thats why capturing nunnaly in ep 18 would have effectively ment victory for the black knights
its not that a little wheelchair bound blind girl is all that importent in military terms
its that when the enemy has captured the very thing you are fighting to protect, then you lost the war.

except that after lelouch left, the forces NOT under toudo's direct command fell into chaos
toudo was holding the line waiting for other people to do stuff that was never going to happen
its not a stupid strategy, it was a good strategy, so long as the REST of the forces did what they were suppose to do
they just didnt

[Revolutionist]

Cornelia had her line around the bureau, she wasn't just defending the front. If I recall correctly she also had her troops set up positions around important hubs like railroads and stuff. You seem to have the false impression that simply having Lelouch would've been insta win. I also remember the Glaston guy informing Guilford that the whole frontal assault was a diversion, and that if they beat Todou there the rest of the forces, the guys who were supposed to win the battle according to you, were just trash. That trash wasn't going to miraculously break the line and take over the building.

[bladeofdarkness]

Cornelia had her line around the bureau, she wasn't just defending the front. If I recall correctly she also had her troops set up positions around important hubs like railroads and stuff. You seem to have the false impression that simply having Lelouch would've been insta win. I also remember the Glaston guy informing Guilford that the whole frontal assault was a diversion, and that if they beat Todou there the rest of the forces, the guys who were supposed to win the battle according to you, were just trash. That trash wasn't going to miraculously break the line and take over the building.

ougi's group in shinjiku was "trash"
but under lelouch's leadership and command they were an orgenised force who beat practiclly ALL of clovis's forces before the lancelot showed up
the "trash" who were suppose to "miraculously" win the battle were no different
by themselves they were a rag tug bunch of disorgenised "trash"
properly led and commanded, they would have been an effective fighting forces
the dude from the glaston knights was just talking down about them, like ALL britannians do

and cornellia ordered all her forces to retreat to the gov building after lelouch dropped the settlement on them
lelouch even said that they pulled back to try and defend only the gov building
its not that lelouch would have been an instent win
but victory was VERY possible if he led the battle rather then what he did when nunnaly was taken
if it was made clear that cornellia was captured, guilford and the GK would have lost their spirit
after all, they had already lost the war

[Revolutionist]

When he used Ougi's trash group he was up against Clovis, who was a nub. When he used another trash cell like Ougi's against Cornelia it failed horribly. Chances are those guys would've flopped like they did in Saitama ghetto too.

Oh and also you seem to be forgetting that in those two instances early in in S1 Lelouch used the IFF against Britannia, concealing themselves as friendly forces to the Britannians. His entire strategy revolved around that and it was a huge advantage. He didn't have that in Tokyo, that is the element of surprise.

[bladeofdarkness]

he didnt NEED the IFF in tokyo
he had more soldiers and the britannian forces were stuck defending just the gov building
once its made clear that cornellia has been captured the forces defending the building would have caved in

[Revolutionist]

he didnt NEED the IFF in tokyo
he had more soldiers and the britannian forces were stuck defending just the gov building
once its made clear that cornellia has been captured the forces defending the building would have caved in

Britannia had superior soldiers, numbers aren't everything. And you don't know that the forces would cave in. Cornelia always refused to deal with terrorists, and Guilford knows that she would most likely be killed by Zero who had already set precedent for that. There was the possibility that they'd try to honor her by fighting to the last man with even more tenacity.

[bladeofdarkness]

it doesnt MATTER what they do from that point on
they are "fighting to the last man" to defend a building that holds no value anymore
once cornellia has been taken captive, the black knights won
they dont need to take the goverment building anymore, since its not the gov building anymore
its just a building
it goes from being "the enemy command center", to being "a pocket of resistance"

the victory has already been won
guildford and the glaston knights go from valient defenders of britannia's rule, to stuff that needs to be mopped up
and the entire building can be bombed to the ground without it ever being needed to be taken

[Aquaman OS]

Just about all of Lelouch's plans involved using Geass to cause the enemy to do something that ordinarily wouldn't happen, so it's not like he's this masterful tactician, he just has a mind control Geass.

Plus Lelouch's plan involved the emperor showing to save Cornelia so he could Geass him, something that was not gonna happen so I've no idea what his plan was there.

If they did retake Japan somebody would have just ordered Japan bombed to the ground, or blown the Sakuradite up. None of the other royals would have given a nation for one Princess.

Either way Britannia wasn't gonna get all weak in the knees from Cornelia's capture. Well Guilford might have but that's about it.

[bladeofdarkness]

why is everyone under the ilusion that cornellia's capture is to be used as a hostage against charles or against future attacks
its NOT
capturing cornellia and destroying the forces that are in japan is a way of showing to the WORLD
"here we are"
"we kicked britannia's ass, and so can you"
"ask me how"
britannia WOULD go weak in the knees over something like this, because if "the witch of britannia" can be taken down so easily, then the enemy is stronger then they thought
they would have been shown to be weak, and promote other areas to take similer actions
after all, "if the japanese can do it, why not us"
the situation would have been very bad for britannia, and lelouch expects that the emperor would have to take action

capturing her is a way of showing your victory to EVERYONE, whether they want to admit it or not
cornellia was not ment to be a hostage against future attacks
capturing her is a SYMBOLIC act
its a victory picture that gets carved into everyone's minds
its like the blowing up the Reichstag
its a way of saying, very clearly, "we won"

it causes MASSIVE moral loss in your enemy, both civilian and military
and a MASSIVE moral boost for your forces
and it lures others to your cause

[Rising Dragon]

why is everyone under the ilusion that cornellia's capture is to be used as a hostage against charles or against future attacks

Probably because Lelouch specifically stated that once Cornelia is their captive, Charles would have no choice but to come out.

[bladeofdarkness]

lelouch said that once the gov building fell and they broadcast it along with their declaration of independence charles would have to act
not that he would use cornellia as a hostage to lure charles there
he knows perfectly well how little charles cares for his children

[Revolutionist]

lelouch said that once the gov building fell and they broadcast it along with their declaration of independence charles would have to act
not that he would use cornellia as a hostage to lure charles there
he knows perfectly well how little charles cares for his children
that was an assumption from Lelouch. Charles would just leave it to Schneizel to deal with..

Again, even IF, and that's is a big IF, the Black Knights took Japan over, did their broadcast thing etc, they still wouldn't have a way to deal with Schneizel who would sit out in Tokyo bay with his battleships and bomb them back to the stone age. You don't need flaija to cause massive devastation when you have a huge ass fleet of battleships full of surface to surface missiles and big ass guns.

All it takes is Schneizel to release his own broadcast showing Tokyo get annihilated as a warning to any would be rebels in other areas and Lelouch's entire plan goes crap. And you know he would so do that.

[Betteroffer]

When he used Ougi's trash group he was up against Clovis, who was a nub. When he used another trash cell like Ougi's against Cornelia it failed horribly. Chances are those guys would've flopped like they did in Saitama ghetto too.

Before you face Nogitsune's wrath for that one, I'll remind you that Clovis was 23 and had been ruling Area 11 for at least 4 years if I recall correctly, meaning he started around 18-19. Clovis was hardly a "nub" as his recognizing Kallen's Glasgow as a feint rather than sheer carelessness proved. He even called the act "pedestrian." Also remember that Clovis never even had a stomach for war and politics, so he is actually dealing in things that aren't even his forte and he was doing a pretty damn good job considering what he had to work with in regards to Kyoto and the NAC going behind his back.

Britannia had superior soldiers, numbers aren't everything. And you don't know that the forces would cave in. Cornelia always refused to deal with terrorists, and Guilford knows that she would most likely be killed by Zero who had already set precedent for that. There was the possibility that they'd try to honor her by fighting to the last man with even more tenacity.

Actually, no. Zero had already twice spared Euphemia, only killing her when she "revealled" herself to be a crazed butcher. There was also the possibility of Guilford surrendering in order to avoid more casualties to his people and to halt the risk of more Britannian civilians dying in the crossfire. Cornelia doesn't negotiate with terrorists, but she also doesn't want to waste the lives of her men as she stated in Stage 7.

If they did try to fight to the last, then Lelouch could have pranced through the government building Geassing all the turret operators to start shooting the Britannians. This would sandwich Guilford and the others between the BK's best forces and a fortress of machine-gun-powered death, or just had C.C. waste them with the Gawain after dropping the building on Jeremiah.

Again, even IF, and that's is a big IF, the Black Knights took Japan over, did their broadcast thing etc, they still wouldn't have a way to deal with Schneizel who would sit out in Tokyo bay with his battleships and bomb them back to the stone age. You don't need flaija to cause massive devastation when you have a huge ass fleet of battleships full of surface to surface missiles and big ass guns.

All it takes is Schneizel to release his own broadcast showing Tokyo get annihilated as a warning to any would be rebels in other areas and Lelouch's entire plan goes crap. And you know he would so do that.

You're assuming that Britannia didn't have similar missles and counters to such missles set up around Japan in order to repel (or initiate) a possible missle strike from the EU or Chinese Federation. You are also assuming that there were absolutely no such ships stationed in Area 11 for the Black Knights to take control of for themselves. Even if you are right, the Gawain's hadron cannons could effectively deal with most if not all incoming missles as it flew out to sink the ships and the BK's stealth submarine could sneak under the ships to release Portman's or other aquatic weapons to destroy the ships from seemingly out of nowhere, and there is always the possibility of using the seabed gas as in R2 if they pass over a similar area.

What you don't realize is that Schneizel can't bomb them back to the stone age, as doing so will screw over Britannia. Britannia constantly needs force to keep its Areas in line, and it was at war with the EU at the time. They simply do not have the forces to spare that you believe they do and expending their energy to destroy the Black Knights would exhaust them to the point that the Chinese Federation could swoop in and flick them away like ants, and take Japan and the Sakuradite for themselves.

If you think Britannia had a hard time taking a small independent nation, imagine retaking that nation when it is a territory of another nation (okay, Federation) that rivals Britannia in power, has the advantage of being a few hours away, while Britannia is three days at least, and they now have the ability to choke Britannia of its sakuradite supplies.

The Chinese Federation is in a similar position. If they attack Japan and exhaust the BK, then Britannia can swoop back in to take Japan from them. Japan's original security amidst the three superpowers came from the mutual fear that if any nation tried to take Japan, then Japan would weaken them just enough in its futile resistence, that an enemy nation would take Japan for itself easily, thus everyone was too scared to make the first move until Britannia was made desperate by the blockades.

If Schneizel acts as you suggest, then he may as well hand Japan over to the Chinese.

[Revolutionist]

You're making lots of assumptions too, you seem to think Schneizel would stupid to fall for tactics like having a submarine take out his whole fleet. Are you even serious?

Anti missile batteries? What about the shells, how do they stop those? A few battleships firing their main guns would be more than enough to devastate all of Tokyo.

Sakuradite production isn't based in Tokyo, so Schneizel can make an example of it and not affect production that much.

The Chinese federation has problems feeding its own people, it can hardly afford to go to war with Britannia. Besides, Schneizel could easily manipulate the Eunochs like he did in R2 to avoid a conflict with them.

[Betteroffer]

You're making lots of assumptions too, you seem to think Schneizel would stupid to fall for tactics like having a submarine take out his whole fleet. Are you even serious?

Anti missile batteries? What about the shells, how do they stop those? A few battleships firing their main guns would be more than enough to devastate all of Tokyo.

Sakuradite production isn't based in Tokyo, so Schneizel can make an example of it and not affect production that much.

The Chinese federation has problems feeding its own people, it can hardly afford to go to war with Britannia. Besides, Schneizel could easily manipulate the Eunochs like he did in R2 to avoid a conflict with them.

I never said that. I said the submarine was one of several options for striking at naval forces that we know of.

Tokyo was a city composed of multiple levels of huge metallic plates. The Japanese don't even live on the highest levels. They live in the lower levels and outskirts (ghettos). Even if Lelouch decided to keep the BK's primary base in Tokyo, he would presumably have it in the lower levels, letting the remains of the settlement plates serve as a shield against bombardment. Schneizel would be blasting his own people, and he would still have to pretend to care about this.

The Japanese would likely want to cut Britannia off entirely from sakuradite after 7 years of ruthless occupation, and even if Lelouch was inclined to persuade them not to, an ongoing battle would make trade difficult.

The Chinese Federation was still large enough and possessed enough resources to maintain a sizeable army, even if it wasn't enough to have an army and well fed citizens. They were still very much a global superpower, and they proved this by the attack on Kyushu, and the mobilization of their navy during the Black Rebellion. While I agree that the Chinese would likely lose a prolonged conflict with Britannia, the act would still heavily weaken Britannia and then the EU could come in. The Britannians wouldn't want to fight the Chinese just to be beaten by the EU, and the Chinese wouldn't want to fight Britannia just to see the EU defeat Britannia after their own countries were rendered even worse off.

The Tianzi marriage plan wouldn't come into fruition for another year at least, and it was likely because the Eunuchs saw that Britannia was steadily conquering the world unchallenged. If Japan gets its independence back, then there is the possibility that the Eunuchs will refuse negotiations, as they could reinstitute the trade blockades from 7 years ago in tandem with the EU and the restored Japan, and choke Britannia of more than just sakuradite.

[ZeroSama]

You're making lots of assumptions too, you seem to think Schneizel would stupid to fall for tactics like having a submarine take out his whole fleet. Are you even serious?

Anti missile batteries? What about the shells, how do they stop those? A few battleships firing their main guns would be more than enough to devastate all of Tokyo.


If the Gawain Survived and could be repaired in time then with a quick sweep of its cannons it could at the very least cripple the Britannian fleet, if not destroy it outright. At the end of R2 we see how effective they are against a fleet of airships WITH SHIELDS so the slow moving battleships would be siting ducks.

Heck we know for a fact that the Gefijun disturber tech used in its cannons makes it undetectable by radar and sonar(Ep 19&20), so they've got to spot it visually. Ideally he should have the sub transport him as far away from Japan and as close to the enemy fleet as possible while remaining undetected so the enemy are still in formation, launch the Gawain at night when the odds of them spotting it are slim to non-exsistent then try to end things early by sending all the troops and armor to the bottom of the Pacific.

I'd have to agree though that if those men and material make landfall, Japan is fuxord.

[Revolutionist]

Considering that Schneizel wasn't that concerned with losing the Gawain, it's hard to imagine it being used against him with devastating effect. He'd quickly come up with a way to neutralize it.

[bladeofdarkness]

he wasnt concerened, because the weapon system was still fucked up and practically useless useless
i'd think that a machine that single handedly wiped out all air forces around tokyo would warrent more concern
especially since he has nothing that can even touch it
and thats just the gawein, thats not even counting the rest of the forces

[ZeroSama]

Considering that Schneizel wasn't that concerned with losing the Gawain, it's hard to imagine it being used against him with devastating effect. He'd quickly come up with a way to neutralize it.

He wasn't concerned because when he lost it, the canons were malfunctiong pieces of shit that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. Now he has to deal with something that eats fleets for breakfast, in 1 sweep of its canons.

He would find it pretty hard to counter it if the ship he was on was reduced to molten slag in the first sweep.

Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean it can't happen and like someone once said "fortune favors the bold".

[geewhiz]

After a long hiatus (of CG being over of course), I've decided to come back round and it looks like fans are still keeping it alive!!:):cool:

So, a couple of things:

1. Will 'Guchi ever come 'round to telling us what the original plan for R2 was?

2. Is it just me or does the geass symbol (and by extension somewhat the Black Knights symbol) look just a little bit like a paper crane?!:twitch::uhoh:

[Nobodyman9]

After a long hiatus (of CG being over of course), I've decided to come back round and it looks like fans are still keeping it alive!!:):cool:

So, a couple of things:

1. Will 'Guchi ever come 'round to telling us what the original plan for R2 was?

2. Is it just me or does the geass symbol (and by extension somewhat the Black Knights symbol) look just a little bit like a paper crane?!:twitch::uhoh:
1. Well, we've seen a few details and plot ideas that could have been, but not a full synopsis. I too would love to see a full summary of the original plans for R2.

2. Hmm, like the pink paper crane at the very end of the last episode. Makes you wonder. I actually have wondered what the Code Geass symbol actually is and what it means.

[geewhiz]

1. Well, we've seen a few details and plot ideas that could have been, but not a full synopsis. I too would love to see a full summary of the original plans for R2. Well maybe we can get a Save-Carson-Beckett petition going, anyone?

After the Carson Beckett character was killed on Stargate Atlantis, fan outrage successfully drove the producers to re-cast Paul McGillion as a 'Beckett clone'.

2. Hmm, like the pink paper crane at the very end of the last episode. Makes you wonder. I actually have wondered what the Code Geass symbol actually is and what it means. More specifically I'd thought the geass/BK symbol looked like a frontal view of a paper crane. Symbolism, anyone?

[Zetsubou Bunny]

2. Hmm, like the pink paper crane at the very end of the last episode. Makes you wonder. I actually have wondered what the Code Geass symbol actually is and what it means.

Well. Since the geass symbol acts like a bird. And a crane is a bird. Then yeah.

(And since 'geis' is mispronounced "geese" and so on.)

[Paladinoras]

1000 origami paper cranes is said to grant the wishes of the maker.

Which is how Geass works. Just saying.

[Revolutionist]

Is it ever explained in any side material what a Knight of Honor actually is? I remember Villetta rambling about becoming real nobility, so I assume a Knight of Honor isn't nobility.

Was Suzaku a Knight of Honor when Euphie knighted him or was he a full fledged knight like say Guilford?

I'm guessing it works like becoming an officer in the armed forces IRL, you get a 4 year college degree then you enlist and go through basic training and then you start out as a 2nd Lieutenant, or in Britannia's case a Knight? O_o If it's like that it seems extremely easy to become a Knightmare pilot...As long as you meet all the requirements to be a pilot i.e decent piloting skills + Britannian citizenship you can pilot a knightmare frame and hopefully do good in battle and be promoted into nobility...not a bad deal if you ask me...

One thing that confuses me though is how the rank structure seems to be split between a modern system with private, captain, major, general etc, and a mediaval system of knights led by nobles...The logical thing would be oh the nobles also carry military titles, but guys like Dalton for example are just called General, they don't seem to have any noble titles...

[morbosfist]

Is it ever explained in any side material what a Knight of Honor actually is? I remember Villetta rambling about becoming real nobility, so I assume a Knight of Honor isn't nobility.Knightmare pilots get honorary nobility. That is, they count as nobles, but only as long as they pilot. It isn't considered hereditary, which was Villetta's beef.

Was Suzaku a Knight of Honor when Euphie knighted him or was he a full fledged knight like say Guilford?He wasn't either. He never had any nobility because he was a Number. They slapped the "Honorary" tag on all his titles.

One thing that confuses me though is how the rank structure seems to be split between a modern system with private, captain, major, general etc, and a mediaval system of knights led by nobles...The logical thing would be oh the nobles also carry military titles, but guys like Dalton for example are just called General, they don't seem to have any noble titles...The structures are separate. Nobility is sometimes earned by virtue of their position, other times not. Regardless, the military ranking system is what matters. The Knights of the Round, for example, equal generals.

[darthfury78]

After a long hiatus (of CG being over of course), I've decided to come back round and it looks like fans are still keeping it alive!!:):cool:

So, a couple of things:

1. Will 'Guchi ever come 'round to telling us what the original plan for R2 was?

2. Is it just me or does the geass symbol (and by extension somewhat the Black Knights symbol) look just a little bit like a paper crane?!:twitch::uhoh:

To answer your first question, I believe that we might see the original plans for Code Geass R2 sooner than we think. Since part of those original plans became public knowledge, it might appear as a possible remake for Code Geass R2. The series is successful enough for Taniguchi to persue that option.

Considering how Code Geass R2 had turned out, by the way of leaving so many important questions unanswered, a remake might just as well be the one option that Taniguchi will use to correct a problem that was beyond his control. The death of Lelouch was the one event that might be behind the public pressure on Sunrise to continue the series. This is what the producers have secretly wanted to do because killing off Lelouch would anger a lot of fans to mobilize a partition to bring back Code Geass. Thus, Taniguchi might be able to remake the series. He can't do that if there isn't a strong demand from the viewing audience, which leads to strong DVD sales and licensing.

The second question is probably a representation of the Geass Symbol.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

This is what the producers have secretly wanted to do because killing off Lelouch would anger a lot of fans to moblelize a partition to bring back Code Geass.

Uh, what? No. Killing off Lelouch was their plan from the beginning. It's an integral part of the story.

[darthfury78]

Uh, what? No. Killing off Lelouch was their plan from the beginning. It's an integral part of the story.

It might have been one of many possible ending scenarios, from the beginning. Just as Jerimariah was to have died in the season one from the beginning as well.

As you have seen, things change. Even though the Zero Requiem was planned from the beginning, it was one of a few options that the producers could have developed. Nothing was ever set in stone. With that said, a remake of Code Geass R2 could lead to an entirely different storyline from the original. Neither the creators or Sunrise ever imagined that Code Geass would be wildly successful.

So the best way to resolve this matter, without continuing from where the second season left off, is to remake Code Geass R2 with a different ending that takes place in an Alternate Universe. The Zero Requiem was one possible ending for Code Geass R2. So let there be another alternate ending to keep the audience in suspense.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

-----Congratulations on the completion of "Code Geass"!! It was a shocking final episode; did you have a difficult time writing it, Mr. Okouchi?

Okouchi: No. The last episode wasn't difficult at all; in fact, it was the middle parts of R2 that turned out to be rough going. For the final episode, [I'd/we'd] already decided on the ending when writing the script for the first episode of the previous series. Episode 1, Episode 25 (Episode 1 and the final episode of the previous series) and episode 25 of R2 -- these episodes did not deviate much from our original plans.

It was an integral part of the story planned from the virgin beginning. Producing a completely different AU would be nothing but the result of peer pressure, and definitively not Code Geass.

The best way to keep the audience in 'suspense' as you call it (as you can see from the previous year's continuing success) is to do nothing at all.

Better off just making a completely new series.

[darthfury78]

-----Congratulations on the completion of "Code Geass"!! It was a shocking final episode; did you have a difficult time writing it, Mr. Okouchi?

Okouchi: No. The last episode wasn't difficult at all; in fact, it was the middle parts of R2 that turned out to be rough going. For the final episode, [I'd/we'd] already decided on the ending when writing the script for the first episode of the previous series. Episode 1, Episode 25 (Episode 1 and the final episode of the previous series) and episode 25 of R2 -- these episodes did not deviate much from our original plans.

It was an integral part of the story planned from the virgin beginning. Producing a completely different AU would be nothing but the result of peer pressure, and definitively not Code Geass.

The best way to keep the audience in 'suspense' as you call it (as you can see from the previous year's continuing success) is to do nothing at all.

Better off just making a completely new series.

Let's wait and see what turns out. But I believe that there is going to be a remake of Code Geass R2, with a different ending. They are doing a remake of Full Metal Alchemist with a different storyline from the first series. The same can be applied to CG.

As for the peer presure, it has already happened with CG R2 already, with the drastic changes of the original season 2 storyline. Even though the ending was intact. So there was a lot of peer pressure.

Also, Okouchi solely wrote all 25 episodes for Code Geass R2. Which means that he wrote the entire second season in order to quickly tie things together. This is more than enough to stress screen writer out. It's quite tough for one person to write all of those episodes, under an enormous amount of pressure.

Who knows? But with Lelouch's popularity at the level there are at the moment, Sunrise will give the go ahead to make another Code Geass Series with him in it. Alternate Universe or otherwise.

[eaglei3]

Let's wait and see what turns out. But I believe that there is going to be a remake of Code Geass R2, with a different ending. They are doing a remake of Full Metal Alchemist with a different storyline from the first series. The same can be applied to CG.

As for the peer presure, it has already happened with CG R2 already, with the drastic changes of the original season 2 storyline. Even though the ending was intact. So there was a lot of peer pressure.

Also, Okouchi solely wrote all 25 episodes for Code Geass R2. Which means that he wrote the entire second season in order to quickly tie things together. This is more than enough to stress screen writer out. It's quite tough for one person to write all of those episodes, under an enormous amount of pressure.

Who knows? But with Lelouch's popularity at the level there are at the moment, Sunrise will give the go ahead to make another Code Geass Series with him in it. Alternate Universe or otherwise.

To be fair, Full Metal Alchemist is in a totally different situation than Code Geass. Code Geass was an anime original while Full Metal Alchemist is based on the manga of the same name. The original series had to deviate because the manga had just started not too long before the anime beginning, so the anime had to create its own storyline. The new Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood is following the manga story now that the manga is a few chapters away from being finished. With that in mind, it isn't really fair to use Full Metal Alchemist as a reasoning to them redoing Geass. If they redo Geass, it would be based off its own popularity.

[geewhiz]

It's my understanding that it was the first half of R2 that had to be altered to comply with the new timeslot...izzat accurate?

[Zetsubou Bunny]

But I believe that there is going to be a remake of Code Geass R2, with a different ending.

Lol. Brilliant. What an excellent solution: "Hey, some things didn't go as planned, so let's take away the one element that was part of the original plan!"

Have we broken the camel's back yet?

Which means that he wrote the entire second season in order to quickly tie things together.

With the exception of the end which, yet again, was part of the original storyline.

Do a remake of CGR2 with re-writes of the middle episodes -they are the part that Okouchi and Taniguchi pulled out of their anus, not the end.

As for the peer presure, it has already happened with CG R2 already, with the drastic changes of the original season 2 storyline.

It had nothing to do with peer pressure. It was a time slot change that forced them to have to re-work things. They got fucked over.

Edit:
It's my understanding that it was the first half of R2 that had to be altered to comply with the new timeslot...izzat accurate?

Yes. Well, most if not all of R2 actually, with a few certain exceptions.

[Revolutionist]

Nobody put a gun to their heads and forced them to change the story. They did it because they felt the need to reach a different audience. In reality if that new audience felt "lost" they could just go back and watch the first season that by that point was available anywhere...The timeslot is the excuse, they were really just either being childish or dumb by changing their story at the last minute and including stuff that wasn't necessary like Ashford scenes...

[Charred Knight]

Nobody put a gun to their heads and forced them to change the story. They did it because they felt the need to reach a different audience. In reality if that new audience felt "lost" they could just go back and watch the first season that by that point was available anywhere...The timeslot is the excuse, they were really just either being childish or dumb by changing their story at the last minute and including stuff that wasn't necessary like Ashford scenes...

I can never understand what the hell was going through the heads of either Taniguchi and Okouchi. I mean the series itself is incredibly goofy but Okouchi and Taniguchi are acting like they made Paranoia Agent.

Okouchi: How dare they change the timeslot of my masterpiece of two guys trying to out ham each other.

[azul120]

Lol.

If Lelouch were to be brought back, I'd rather it be through plausible means, like some sort of Geass inflected resurrection. And make it so that at least either Shirley or Euphie also come back from the dead or "Came Back From The Bus". Sorry. A little too much into "Dirge of Daedalus" right now.

[eaglei3]

So is there any new news from November, or is this topic still a circus of the same 6 people going through the repeated cycles of over done debates?

[Zetsubou Bunny]

The timeslot is the excuse, they were really just either being childish or dumb by changing their story at the last minute and including stuff that wasn't necessary like Ashford scenes...

Wow..you seriously think that they wanted to change the story in the way they did? You honestly think Okouchi woke up one day and thought, "Gah, this series is so well put-together and popular and successful...we should change the plotline!" ?

No, they did not use the time slot change as a convenient 'excuse' to change the story. How insulting. Changing the contents of the show was a necessary in order for the show to survive a late-night spot, and unfortunately changing the contents meant changing the storyline.

Edit:
So is there any new news from November, or is this topic still a circus of the same 6 people going through the repeated cycles of over done debates?

No news. Nothing better for people to do here right now than blow things out or proportion and make baseless accusations, apparently.

[eaglei3]

Wow..you seriously think that they wanted to change the story in the way they did? You honestly think Okouchi woke up one day and thought, "Gah, this series is so well put-together and popular and successful...we should change the plotline!" ?

No, they did not use the time slot change as a convenient 'excuse' to change the story. How insulting. Changing the contents of the show was a necessary in order for the show to survive a late-night spot, and unfortunately changing the contents meant changing the storyline.

Edit:


No news. Nothing better for people to do here right now than blow things out or proportion and make baseless accusations, apparently.


Meh, was hoping they might have given a little more details for what is going on next month. Oh well.

[darthfury78]

Nobody put a gun to their heads and forced them to change the story. They did it because they felt the need to reach a different audience. In reality if that new audience felt "lost" they could just go back and watch the first season that by that point was available anywhere...The timeslot is the excuse, they were really just either being childish or dumb by changing their story at the last minute and including stuff that wasn't necessary like Ashford scenes...

The truth is we may never know why Taniguchi was forced to scrap the original plans for Code Geass R2. The fact that they had to do so in order to ease the new audience was quite stupid because if anyone wanted to know what Code Geass was all about, they could have viewed the first season either through video stream on the internet or DVD. This is a direct insult to the viewers intelligence, in my opinion.

I'll agree that both the new and old audeince felt lost by those changes. The entire second season felt uneven, with a lot of crucial details missing from the story.

But given the overall success of the series, the option to do another Code Geass project still exists. So Taniguchi could either remake the second season of Code Geass that was based on the original plans that was scrapped, or completely remake the entire 50 episode series.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

The fact that they had to do so in order to ease the new audience was quite stupid because if anyone wanted to know what Code Geass was all about, they could have viewed the first season either through video stream on the internet or DVD. This is a direct insult to the viewers intelligence, in my opinion.

No, that's the whole point; the new audience wouldn't care enough about it to catch themselves up. Different audiences watch TV at different times of the day. And apparently in Japan, the evening crowd likes Mecha-action while the late night crowd likes supernatural-sitcom-drama. Try moving Heroes to a late night showing, Judge Judy to an evening slot, see how well that goes over.

If there ever were to be a new series, I still vote for something new. I doubt that remaking R2 according to original plans would generate that much interest aside from the really hardcore fans like us...who would stay interested in it regardless.

[Revolutionist]

Wow..you seriously think that they wanted to change the story in the way they did? You honestly think Okouchi woke up one day and thought, "Gah, this series is so well put-together and popular and successful...we should change the plotline!" ?

No, they did not use the time slot change as a convenient 'excuse' to change the story. How insulting. Changing the contents of the show was a necessary in order for the show to survive a late-night spot, and unfortunately changing the contents meant changing the storyline.


Where did I say I thought they wanted to change the story? I want to know where you got that from because it wasn't from my post....

As for changing the show being necessary, that is completely absurd. It's not like the changes they made somehow made the show more appealing to its new audience. If they didn't like mecha action then they still wouldn't like R2 because it still had that, as well as the super natural aspect.

The changes that were made were to sort of have R2 be a stand-alone series, as opposed to a direct continuation of R1. This was because apparently the people who watched TV during that new slot were not familiar with Geass. It wasn't because they didn't like the premise of the show. Even if it was then the changes were dumb because people wouldn't like it anyway.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

Where did I say I thought they wanted to change the story? I want to know where you got that from because it wasn't from my post....

Because claiming that they used the time slot change as an 'excuse' implies that they had something different in mind before encountering such a roadblock?

If they didn't like mecha action then they still wouldn't like R2 because it still had that, as well as the super natural aspect.

Not particularly. I'm admittedly not a mecha person, but I still enjoyed Code Geass immensely, even given its fallbacks. (That could also be because I'm derrangedly Lelouch-centric, but I'm not the only one.) They were trying to appease both audiences, which is what fucked the plot over. It's hard to fit two completely different premises into one 25-episode season.

Ironically however, it worked to appease the less critical part of the audience which, let's face it, is most of the audience.

The changes that were made were to sort of have R2 be a stand-alone series, as opposed to a direct continuation of R1. This was because apparently the people who watched TV during that new slot were not familiar with Geass. It wasn't because they didn't like the premise of the show.

The changes were made because of both things. It wasn't completely meant to be a standalone show, but it was re-calibrated some to make it easier for a new audience to pick up. (BIG mistake plot-wise.) But that alone wouldn't have changed the entire season -the storyline was, in fact, modified to please the new audience.

Even if it was then the changes were dumb because people wouldn't like it anyway.

And yet we're all still here, and we all still think Code Geass was amazing. We can complain all we want about how various things could have been done differently, but the fact remains that we still enjoyed the show and tolerated its follies enough not to abandon it. Their magic must have worked.

[Paladinoras]

So is there any new news from November, or is this topic still a circus of the same 6 people going through the repeated cycles of over done debates?

Kinda hard to make new debates over a series that ended...

[eaglei3]

Kinda hard to make new debates over a series that ended...

I know that... is why I asked if it is the same 6 or 7 people going over their endless loop discussion as that has been the only activity I have really seen with the same users over and over.

[Xander]

That loop has been going on for some time, yes, which is part of the reason I haven't been actively involved in many of these discussions. Nothing is actually going on, at least not for the time being.

The only thing that I would like to point out is that moving the second season over to a different time slot also had a couple of fairly specific consequences that haven't been directly addressed: ratings and business interests.

Ratings were more or less largely irrelevant to the original series, but that obviously became a concern for R2. You don't move a TV show to prime time if you don't have the expectation that many more viewers will tune in, which means that the show needs to be attractive enough.

Because more people will presumably watch the show and because they're helping to pay the bills -having something air on a better time slot isn't going to be cheap- more sponsors will want to have their say in what actually happens and promote what they want to sell (toys, model kits, character merchandise, anything else).

While I'm sure that Taniguchi and, more importantly (because he was the one who wrote the entire script), Okouchi had the choice of making less changes or finding a way to reach a superior compromise, it cannot be said that there weren't external factors involved in the process. I would say this is, overall, a matter of shared responsibility.

On the other hand, I doubt there is a hidden manuscript titled "Code Geass: Season Two" as opposed to a series of ideas, concepts and designs that may or may not have been written down. I believe they had barely scripted three episodes, if I recall correctly, according to what one of the producers stated in that event / interview with Lelouch's and Rolo's voice actors.

Leaving aside any future remake or "re-imagining" down the line that probably won't be identical to the original plans either, I suppose we'll just keep getting scattered bits of information about what could have been.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

It is what it is. We all enjoyed the show and whatever changes were made obviously weren't enough to ruin it for us. I personally am thankful for the enjoyment it did give. It's pretty pointless to obsess over what else it could have been.

[darthfury78]

That loop has been going on for some time, yes, which is part of the reason I haven't been actively involved in many of these discussions. Nothing is actually going on, at least not for the time being.

The only thing that I would like to point out is that moving the second season over to a different time slot also had a couple of fairly specific consequences that haven't been directly addressed: ratings and business interests.

Ratings were more or less largely irrelevant to the original series, but that obviously became a concern for R2. You don't move a TV show to prime time if you don't have the expectation that many more viewers will tune in, which means that the show needs to be attractive enough.

Because more people will presumably watch the show and because they're helping to pay the bills -having something air on a better time slot isn't going to be cheap- more sponsors will want to have their say in what actually happens and promote what they want to sell (toys, model kits, character merchandise, anything else).

While I'm sure that Taniguchi and, more importantly (because he was the one who wrote the entire script), Okouchi had the choice of making less changes or finding a way to reach a superior compromise, it cannot be said that there weren't external factors involved in the process. I would say this is, overall, a matter of shared responsibility.

On the other hand, I doubt there is a hidden manuscript titled "Code Geass: Season Two" as opposed to a series of ideas, concepts and designs that may or may not have been written down. I believe they had barely scripted three episodes, if I recall correctly, according to what one of the producers stated in that event / interview with Lelouch's and Rolo's voice actors.

Leaving aside any future remake or "re-imagining" down the line that probably won't be identical to the original plans either, I suppose we'll just keep getting scattered bits of information about what could have been.


In my opinion, the Primetime lineup for a TV show is usually from 7PM to 10PM. Not a 5PM timeslot, which is still a late afternoon to early evening schedule. On a Sunday, the 5PM timespot is not enough to attract a very large audience, who are not home around that time. Large advertising revenue is usually generated around a 7PM to 10PM primetime hours.

Historically, in recent years, Sunrise has never scheduled any of their highly popular animes on a Sunday 5PM schedule. Epsecially, not their flagship series, like its Gundam Franchise. It's usually on a Saturday, from around 7PM to 10PM timeslot. Sometimes, it could schedule the show on a latenight schedule, which could be around 11PM or later.

The reason behind Code Geass timeslot change from its Thursday latenight to Sunday at 5PM is because they needed an anime to secure Gundam's new timespot(for the Spring Season lineup) until it premiered for the Fall 2008 lineup. So you see, Gundam 00: The Second Season lost its Saturday Primetime schedule. Otherwise, there would not have been a need to change Code Geass R2 timespot. Sunrise would never place its Gundam series to one of the least desired timespot unless it was the ONLY one available. So the network where Sunrise distribute it shows, screwed them up bigtime because the new 5PM timespot for Gundam was for a 50 Episode commitment that began in the Spring 2008 to Spring 2009 season. Rather than reboardcasting the first season of Gundam 00 for the new Sunday 5PM timespot, it was suggested that Code Geass should assume that timespot instead for the Spring 2008 program lineup and Gundam 00 for the Fall 2008 lineup.

And, according the two of the series voice actors, three episode scripts for the original plans for Code Geass R2 was written before the timeslot change was announced. The creators had WANTED to retain the same latenight audience from Season One. Anyway, here are the links that explains it all.

Not as Planned (http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/08/19/taniguchi-on-geass-not-as-planned/)

Character Interviews (http://community.livejournal.com/code_geass/1376181.html)


Kawaguchi P talks about the timeslot change and how it altered their original plans considerably. They had written up until episode 3, but had to discard and redo everything. At first, it had been decided that the winner in the showdown between Suzaku and Lelouch was going to be... Lelouch º__º'' (I didn't know this. Has it been shared before, when there was that discussion about the original plans for R2 being completely different? Maybe I missed it lol). Both FukuJun and Daichuu think it's more logical that Lelouch lost a fight in which he needed to use physical strength, plus Suzaku would be able to dodge any bullet XD

The only way that Lelouch COULD have won the conflict against Suzuku after Stage 25 at the end of Season One was with Kallen's help. Lelouch might have been weak, physically, against Suzaku. However, Kallen was not.

Originally Posted by Celiss Galvea's translation of the Okouchi x Yoshino x Morita interview included in R2 DVD/Bluray Booklet #1

It was to have been a direct continuation of Stage 25; in this version, Lelouch actually wins against Suzaku. Lelouch then infiltrates the Great Britannia, but then loses against the Emperor.

- After that, two scenarios were suggested:

1) The Prisoner President Arc (official name)

Lelouch is imprisoned, but every night he escapes and becomes the President. Lelouch wins against Schneizel in a presidential election.

In this version, a girl who looks exactly like Lelouch turns up to take his place, leading to a Black Knight misunderstanding things ("Zero is actually a woman!") and falling in love with "Zero".

*Although it isn't mentioned in this interview, in Ura de Net Geass RETURNS #1 it is revealed that this Lelouch-lookalike girl was to have been Lilycia (Gottwald), which would explain her name. As 2chers have pointed out since the release of the picture drama, the name "Riri-sha" looks like it was made by shifting the characters in "Ruru-shu" one space up in the hiragana chart (though the "shi" in "sha" and "shu" were left intact)

**Again, not mentioned in this interview, but in Ura de Net Geass RETURNS #1 this person is revealed to be... you guessed it Tamaki.

2)

The entire Ashford Academy is brought aboard a ship and Zero becomes captain. Lelouch Lamperouge enlists as a PO, and whenever Tamaki tries to bully the new guy, Zero, for whatever reason, gets mad at Tamaki. I wonder why indeed...

This scenario didn't survive very long, however, and it was finally decided that they had to use the "memory loss" option.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

Where did all of that come from? I've never heard any of that in my life. President? Lelouch look-alike girl?

References please.

[darthfury78]

Where did all of that come from? I've never heard any of that in my life. President? Lelouch look-alike girl?

References please.

Originally Posted by Celiss Galvea's translation of the Okouchi x Yoshino x Morita interview included in Code Geass R2 DVD/Bluray Booklet #1

[Zetsubou Bunny]

I've followed Celiss' translations forever and I don't remember anything like that ever. o_O Did you get this directly from one of her posts or is this something viral?

(However, if it's true, thank God for the time slot change...)

[darthfury78]

I've followed Celiss' translations forever and I don't remember anything like that ever. o_O Did you get this directly from one of her posts or is this something viral?

(However, if it's true, thank God for the time slot change...)

You should follow the link that I provided under the heading:

Character Interviews (http://community.livejournal.com/code_geass/1376181.html)

This provides a better picture to what the original plans for Code Geass would have been, since it comes directly from the voice actors.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

I read it. Is there something I'm missing? I'm still not seeing anything by Celiss talking about presidential imprisonments, pre-Sayolelouch notions, or the kidnap of the entire student body. (Wtf?) It's cute and amusing but it doesn't provide that much insight, just a quick-fire chat between voice actors and a quick commentary by Kawaguchi. I do like that it seemed Rolo's moe-ness seemed to be contagious among the staff. <3

[darthfury78]

I read it. Is there something I'm missing? I'm still not seeing anything by Celiss talking about presidential imprisonments, pre-Sayolelouch notions, or the kidnap of the entire student body. (Wtf?) It's cute and amusing but it doesn't provide that much insight, just a quick-fire chat between voice actors and a quick commentary by Kawaguchi. I do like that it seemed Rolo's moe-ness seemed to be contagious among the staff. <3



This is one of the main reasons why I feel that there should be a remake of Code Geass R2. This way, the audience would get the chance to make a comparison of the two versions of Season 2.

And, it would put this ongoing debate to a close. This was why I sent a letter to Taniguchi suggesting this idea. Other anime directors have had the opportunity to retell their anime TV Shows. Why can't Code Geass?

[Zetsubou Bunny]

Debate? I don't think anyone denies that most of R2 was re-worked. I agree it would be nice to see something that more closely resembles what was going through their minds, but I also don't think it's that important.

Edit: Completely off topic, but having a routine encounter with a fan misinformed by trolls and the cartdriver club lead me to create this: http://forums.animesuki.com/group.php?groupid=456 I've compiled all the official material I can think that dispels any doubt whatsoever into one easy-to-read concise place. (Let me know if I'm missing anything.) There are way too many casual fans who are just simply confused by the gigantic fucking rift in this fandom, so instead of trying to explain anything to them just link them there.

Go! Go my friends, and bring them out of the darkness!

[darthfury78]

Debate? I don't think anyone denies that most of R2 was re-worked. I agree it would be nice to see something that more closely resembles what was going through their minds, but I also don't think it's that important.

Edit: Completely off topic, but having a routine encounter with a fan misinformed by trolls and the cartdriver club lead me to create this: http://forums.animesuki.com/group.php?groupid=456 I've compiled all the official material I can think that dispels any doubt whatsoever into one easy-to-read concise place. (Let me know if I'm missing anything.) There are way too many casual fans who are just simply confused by the gigantic fucking rift in this fandom, so instead of trying to explain anything to them just link them there.

Go! Go my friends, and bring them out of the darkness!

While the ENDING was planned from the very beginning, the things that leads up to that moment was not very clear at all. This is why I feel that there should be a remake of Code Geass R2. One can't appreciate Lelouch's sacrifice unless the audience sees a clear picture, which the re-worked version of Code Geass R2 has not. The first half of season 2 was practically a reintroduction of Season 1, while the second half was a WTF moment that was changed and rushed up to Turn 25.

We still don't know how Marianne and C.C. have met to form a contract. We don't know the full story between V.V. and Charles, as well as the the history and background story of the Geass Cult. Nor do well know the full history of C.C. and how she influenced history. Not to mentioned whether she created the Geass Cult with V.V. or not. As well as to why she suddenly left everything behind following Marianne's death. All of this information could have helped towards understanding the Zero Requiem.

While the creators SAY that Code Geass might be over, there is still a very important element to the story that was REMOVED from it. The story for Season 2 just doesn't make any sense. It was too predictable because it indicated that Lelouch would die. And for what? to create a peace that is unlikely to last that long? Something does not feel right about the later part of the series.

While I'll agree that Code Geass is over, a loophole to remake it is still an option. Or, they could do an entirely different Code Geass, as most have suggested.

But, I must admit, that the Lelouch Birthday Event might be nothing more than that. Sunrise has a strange way of announcing things when the fans least expect them to. I think that they will play around the Zero Requiem a little longer before announcing a new Code Geass series, remake or not. I believe that Sunrise wants things to die down before coming out with their big surprise.

[Xander]

I'm getting a terrible feeling of déjà vu, but I suppose it was as inevitable as it is redundant. :heh:

Nevertheless, I'll try to get straight to the point and keep this as short as possible for everyone's sake.

In my opinion, the Primetime lineup for a TV show is usually from 7PM to 10PM. Not a 5PM timeslot, which is still a late afternoon to early evening schedule. On a Sunday, the 5PM timespot is not enough to attract a very large audience, who are not home around that time. Large advertising revenue is usually generated around a 7PM to 10PM primetime hours.


a)Code Geass aired on Friday at 1AM (or Thursday at 25 JST if you prefer).

b)Gundam 00 (S1), Fullmetal Alchemist, Gundam SEED and Gundam SEED Destiny aired on Saturday at 6PM.

c)Code Geass R2, Gundam 00 (S2) and Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood aired on Sunday at 5PM.

d)The popular Saturday at 6PM anime block was moved to Sunday at 5PM.


Japan's TBS/MBS broadcast network has announced that the two-hour Hōdō Tokushū newsmagazine program will move from Sundays at 5:30 p.m. to Saturdays at 5:30 p.m. on April 5 — effectively pushing out the anime programs that have run for over five straight years in the network's popular Saturday 6:00 p.m. timeslot. Mobile Suit Gundam 00's first 25-episode run will end on Saturday, March 29 at 6:00 p.m., but Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 will not take over its timeslot. Instead the Code Geass sequel will premiere on Sunday, April 6, at 5:00 p.m.

The TBS/MBS network has run an anime series or an Ultraman live-action special-effects series in that Saturday 6:00 p.m timeslot since 1993. The timeslot reached its heyday during the 2002-2003 Mobile Suit Gundam Seed run and the 2003-2004 Fullmetal Alchemist run. Ratings began slipping with 2005-2006's Blood+. The ratings drop accelerated when NHK's Major baseball anime series ran directly against the TBS anime programs.

Source:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-02-05/japans-tbs-confirms-animes-move-from-saturday-6-p.m

I believe that supports most of my arguments and dismisses several of your statements, even though there is still plenty of room for what is, in either case, nothing more than repeated fan speculation.

The move from Saturday to Sunday wasn't decided by Sunrise but by TBS/MBS and has affected all other anime. Sunday at 5PM may not be the best time available, but it is much better than Friday at 1AM.

And, according the two of the series voice actors, three episode scripts for the original plans for Code Geass R2 was written before the timeslot change was announced.

All those links have been posted before, more than once or twice, so this is nothing new.

Although you should have linked to the transcript of Taniguchi's interview, which is on that same website run by koda / miasmacloud. I wonder why that gets linked less often when it's closer to the source.


Originally Posted by Celiss Galvea's translation of the Okouchi x Yoshino x Morita interview included in R2 DVD/Bluray Booklet #1

This has also been posted before, although perhaps less frequently.

However, if you try to harmonize all the available information, the picture comes down to this:

a)In Code Geass S2, Lelouch/Zero was supposed to have won the duel and the story would go on from there.

b)When the show became Code Geass R2, other options were considered in addition to what we saw on TV in 2008.

Everything else appears to be a mess of scattered concepts, whether they were original ideas for a hypothetical S2 or discarded alternative scenarios for R2. It's not easy to make a clear distinction between the two.

It's a real pity that neither Celiss Galvea nor LJ's aya_kari did actual translations of the respective interviews (even though I'm grateful for what they did), because then it would be easier to sort this whole mess out. If there is any real point to it now, that is. In the end we're all back to square one, aren't we?

[darthfury78]

I'm getting a terrible feeling of déjà vu, but I suppose it was as inevitable as it is redundant. :heh:

Nevertheless, I'll try to get straight to the point and keep this as short as possible for everyone's sake.



a)Code Geass aired on Friday at 1AM (or Thursday at 25 JST if you prefer).

b)Gundam 00 (S1), Fullmetal Alchemist, Gundam SEED and Gundam SEED Destiny aired on Saturday at 6PM.

c)Code Geass R2, Gundam 00 (S2) and Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood aired on Sunday at 5PM.

d)The popular Saturday at 6PM anime block was moved to Sunday at 5PM.



Source:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-02-05/japans-tbs-confirms-animes-move-from-saturday-6-p.m

I believe that supports most of my arguments and dismisses several of your statements, even though there is still plenty of room for what is, in either case, nothing more than repeated fan speculation.

The move from Saturday to Sunday wasn't decided by Sunrise but by TBS/MBS and has affected all other anime. Sunday at 5PM may not be the best time available, but it is much better than Friday at 1AM.



All those links have been posted before, more than once or twice, so this is nothing new.

Although you should have linked to the transcript of Taniguchi's interview, which is on that same website run by koda / miasmacloud. I wonder why that gets linked less often when it's closer to the source.



This has also been posted before, although perhaps less frequently.

However, if you try to harmonize all the available information, the picture comes down to this:

a)In Code Geass S2, Lelouch/Zero was supposed to have won the duel and the story would go on from there.

b)When the show became Code Geass R2, other options were considered in addition to what we saw on TV in 2008.

Everything else appears to be a mess of scattered concepts, whether they were original ideas for a hypothetical S2 or discarded alternative scenarios for R2. It's not easy to make a clear distinction between the two.

It's a real pity that neither Celiss Galvea nor LJ's aya_kari did actual translations of the respective interviews (even though I'm grateful for that whey did), because then it would be easier to sort this whole mess out. If there is any real point to it now, that is. In the end we're all back to square one, aren't we?

Whatever the case, the second season was still unclear. The only way to see this matter resolved is to know whether or not there will be a new Code Geass series or a remake. A remake would bring everything back to square one. But we might be able to see a better picture of the story than what we got. This is still an ongoing debate.

Although, I would love nothing more than to see Code Geass S2 created at the same latenight audience. Inuyasha is currently a Sunrise TV show, which is being shown on Satudays at 7PM. And Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood is being shown on Sundays a 5PM. Where would that Place Code Geass and Gundam, if Sunrise choses to make them both. We do know that Sunrise will not want anything to do with the Sunday 5PM timeslot. And the flagship Gundam will always have the Saturday timespot.

It's such a ashame the Code Geass and Gundam 00 were produced at the same time, and became successful at the same time, respectively.

[Miles Teg]

I am not sure I have understood your post but Gundam 00 (S2) was airing in the 5pm Sunday timeslot, the same one used by FMA and Sunrise will probably reused it after FMA.

Inuyasha have a 7pm timeslot but it's not on TBS/MBS you can't really compare :heh:

[darthfury78]

I am not sure I have understood your post but Gundam 00 (S2) was airing in the 5pm Sunday timeslot, the same one used by FMA and Sunrise will probably reused it after FMA.

Inuyasha have a 7pm timeslot but it's not on TBS/MBS you can't really compare :heh:

True. Inuyasha is being shown on another TV station. As for FMA, that will be a very long time before that timespot becomes vacant on the TBS/MBS Network. TBS/MBS screwed Sunrise over with the program change. And Sunrise likes the Saturday option, rather than Sunday. So they might have moved to another TV Station for their future Gundam shows. It might be possible to see Code Geass return to the latenight schedule,, since the creators had wanted to produce the second season at that audience.

It's ironic that the timespot change for Code Geass was a disaster for the original story. However, in the U.S., Adult Swim shows Code Geass at late night. I wonder how the show would have faired it Cartoon Network had placed the show in the Saturday 7PM lineup, instead of those crapy TV shows that they boardcast instead.

I hope that the event that Sunrise is planning on behalf of Lelouch's birthday would indicate that they will be another Code Geass Series or a remake. That's all I care about for the moment.

[Meatrose]

I think the event is going to be something similar to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVbWL6ESlc8).

I really really hope that they won't ruin Code Geass by producing non-canon sequels and I don't see a remake being made since the ending they always wanted to do has already been implemented. It doesn't matter that R2 turned out to be different from what they had in mind (which was a shame), the cards are already on the table.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

TL DR, guys..Jesus Christ. Why can't we all just enjoy what we've been given? Some things were left out, yeah, but it's not that big of a deal, and certainly not a big enough demand to warrant a remake.

All it would take is for Taniguchi and/ or Okouchi to comment on what their original plans were, and most people would be satisfied on that end. No need to blow thousands on a remake.

As for not being able to fully appreciate Lelouch's sacrficice due to the plot change, that's a completely irrelevant argument because ZR itself was created in accordance with the re-worked plot.

I really really hope that they won't ruin Code Geass by producing non-canon sequels and I don't see a remake being made since the ending they always wanted to do has already been implemented. It doesn't matter that R2 turned out to be different from what they had in mind (which was a shame), the cards are already on the table.

While 'non-canon sequals' is an oxymoron in this context, I understand what you're trying to say and I agree. Though I highly doubt much if anything will come out of the December event. More fanservice is our best bet.

[darthfury78]

I think the event is going to be something similar to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVbWL6ESlc8).

I really really hope that they won't ruin Code Geass by producing non-canon sequels and I don't see a remake being made since the ending they always wanted to do has already been implemented. It doesn't matter that R2 turned out to be different from what they had in mind (which was a shame), the cards are already on the table.

When I implie a "Remake", it would take place in an alternate universe, like several other animes in the past.

There is still a lot of unanswered questions that was never addressed. Sure, they got the ending they always wanted. But the events leading up to it was not there. It was just one big confusing mess.

A remake doesn't interfere with what was given. It's a loophole around it. While the producers claim that the story was a happy ending, there is some dis-satisfaction among many who didn't understand the events from season 2.

TL DR, guys..Jesus Christ. Why can't we all just enjoy what we've been given? Some things were left out, yeah, but it's not that big of a deal, and certainly not a big enough demand to warrant a remake.

All it would take is for Taniguchi and/ or Okouchi to comment on what their original plans were, and most people would be satisfied on that end. No need to blow thousands on a remake.

As for not being able to fully appreciate Lelouch's sacrficice due to the plot change, that's a completely irrelevant argument because ZR itself was created in accordance with the re-worked plot.

While 'non-canon sequals' is an oxymoron in this context, I understand what you're trying to say and I agree. Though I highly doubt much if anything will come out of the December event. More fanservice is our best bet.


While you might be satisfied with what is given. Good for you. But, most folks want to see the complete story that leads up to that point of the ending. The first half of season 2 was a reintroduction of season one. The second half of season 2 was the biggest wtf moment. It left a lot of questions than answers.

And the success of the show provides the creators with the option to do another Code Geass Project. They can either do a new show or a remake. That would be up to them or someone else.

Although, it's likely that we will get MORE fanservice awhile longer, while Sunrise sits back with a BIG smile on their faces seeing the fans in the dark a little bit longer.

Also,
Just to be very clear on the subject, My definition of a "Remake" is that the story takes place in an alternate universe. So it doesn't affect the current story at all.

There are those who feel that the "Cart Driver" is really Lelouch, since the producers never showed his face at the end of Turn 25. If the producers had shown the Cart Drivers' face, then it would have proved, beyond a reasonable doubt that Lelouch is dead. They never showed his body being buried, like Shirley and Rolo. Personally, I like to believe that Lelouch is dead so that we could see the original version for Code Geass R2 produced as an alternate universe type series, with a different ending since the Zero Requiem option has been used already.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

No one cares about the cart driver because Lelouch is dead and the few who truly do care are simply delusional.

[Revolutionist]

TL DR, guys..Jesus Christ. Why can't we all just enjoy what we've been given? Some things were left out, yeah, but it's not that big of a deal, and certainly not a big enough demand to warrant a remake.

All it would take is for Taniguchi and/ or Okouchi to comment on what their original plans were, and most people would be satisfied on that end. No need to blow thousands on a remake.

As for not being able to fully appreciate Lelouch's sacrficice due to the plot change, that's a completely irrelevant argument because ZR itself was created in accordance with the re-worked plot.



Maybe for you it isn't a big deal, but other people would like to get to experience the real story.

I'll answer your question the moment you stop trying to make people think like you, and view things the way you do.

Btw, ZR was always part of the plot, it wasn't "created in accordance with the re-worked plot" as you claim. It is probably the only thing that didn't change at all going from S1 to S2. "the only ones who should shoot, are those prepared to be shot"- said by Lelouch in ep 1, repeated in ep 50.

No one cares about the cart driver because Lelouch is dead and the few who truly do care are simply delusional.
That is a matter of opinion, and last time I checked opinion wasn't fact. People are free to think and care about whatever they want.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

Maybe for you it isn't a big deal, but other people would like to get to experience the real story.

I'll answer your question the moment you stop trying to make people think like you, and view things the way you do.

No, you don't get it. It's not a big deal. There aren't enough people who would be genuinely interested in a re-write to warrant the creators dishing out thousands of dollars on it.

But I'm not going to argue with you about something stupid like that. There's no way we can predict their next move.

Btw, ZR was always part of the plot, it wasn't "created in accordance with the re-worked plot" as you claim. It is probably the only thing that didn't change at all going from S1 to S2.

"the only ones who should shoot, are those prepared to be shot"- said by Lelouch in ep 1, repeated in ep 50.

Zero Requiem -as we know it- was written in accordance with the re-worked plot.

[SonOfHeaven]

I think the event is going to be something similar to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVbWL6ESlc8).

I see the event next month being very similar to that in fact. I'm not really expecting too much actually.

[geewhiz]

I think the event is going to be something similar to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVbWL6ESlc8).

I really really hope that they won't ruin Code Geass by producing non-canon sequels and I don't see a remake being made since the ending they always wanted to do has already been implemented. It doesn't matter that R2 turned out to be different from what they had in mind (which was a shame), the cards are already on the table.

I've wondered where they could take off from if they made a sequel. Hell, a prequel ain't a bad idea either! Maybe in a sequel they could have Orange's Canceller accidentally going off around Suzaku, and he realizes his "patricide" is really an implanted memory. *gasp*...:heh:;):uhoh::p

[bladeofdarkness]

how about it goes off around shnizel :uhoh:

[Nobodyman9]

how about it goes off around shnizel :uhoh:
Well, with most of Schneizel's assets frozen and Zerozaku and Nunnally and everyone else watching him like a hawk, he'd have to be very crafty to start anything.

[bladeofdarkness]

Well, with most of Schneizel's assets frozen and Zerozaku and Nunnally and everyone else watching him like a hawk, he'd have to be very crafty to start anything.

lelouch beat an entire security team in ashford who were watching his every move
i think Schneizel can handle a teenage cripple and a glorified pilot
especially since they still think he's geassed to serve them

[Nobodyman9]

lelouch beat an entire security team in ashford who were watching his every move
i think Schneizel can handle a teenage cripple and a glorified pilot
especially since they still think he's geassed to serve them
Well, Schneizel ain't Lelouch. And what exactly would he do anyway? Pretend to keep serving them while secretly building some underground resistance on the side? I mean, I guess it's possible, but somehow I think Nunnally and/or Suzaku would catch on.

[bladeofdarkness]

Well, Schneizel ain't Lelouch. And what exactly would he do anyway? Pretend to keep serving them while secretly building some underground resistance on the side? I mean, I guess it's possible, but somehow I think Nunnally and/or Suzaku would catch on.

kill them both
make it look like an accident
assume the throne

[geewhiz]

kill them both
make it look like an accident
assume the throne

what throne? there isn't one to 'assume' anymore!

[bladeofdarkness]

become emperor of britannia that is
you know, like nunnaly is now

[geewhiz]

you know, like nunnaly is now i don't remember that being the case, refresh my memory...

[bladeofdarkness]

what did you think ?
britannia did not become a democracy
the britannian royal family is STILL the ruling body of britannia
why do you think geassing shnizel was so importent
why else would nunnaly be meeting with ougi in the final

nunnaly is empress of britannia

[geewhiz]

the britannian royal family is STILL the ruling body of britannia Yeah, what with there being two royal Britannians left...

why else would nunnaly be meeting with ougi in the final i dunno, i was kinda thinkin "head of state" when I saw that clip not necessaily "empress" although I can concede she'll probably make her country democracy-like....

[bladeofdarkness]

why is she "head of state" ?
did someone elect a 16 year old girl to run the country ?
the same girl who was next in line for the throne (since shnizel and cornellia declared her to be their choice)
of course not

nunnaly rules britannia
and if shnizel kills her and zero and takes the throne, then HE would rule

[geewhiz]

and if shnizel kills her and zero and takes the throne, then HE would rule Lol, and Cornelia'd prolly be like "meh, what the hell, why not" because she did say he'd be a gr8 ruler in good times and, well...good times r now!! (thanks to Lelouch, btw...)



btw thinking about what you said about them watching Schneizel like a hawk, it'd be like the first Turns of R2 where Lelouch is monitored same way. Sweet parallelism, no?:D:heh:

[bladeofdarkness]

because shnizel cant deal with one crippled teen girl and one glorified pilot

P.S
if shnizel was allowed to carry out HIS plan
then "good times" would also be now
would that have made him anything other then a monster ?
same with lelouch

[geewhiz]

P.S
if shnizel was allowed to carry out HIS plan
then "good times" would also be now
would that have made him anything other then a monster ?
same with lelouch meh. i think that kind of debate (and it'd be a good debate) is probably worthy of it's own thread.

[Nogitsune]

*sneaks into the thread*


P.S
if shnizel was allowed to carry out HIS plan
then "good times" would also be now
would that have made him anything other then a monster ?
same with lelouch

Yes, I believe it would.
For one, I still don't like the word "monster". Too many characters have been called that for too many different reasons. Then again, Schneizel is probably really the least "human" of them, seeing how he has no desires of his own and no true attachments.
However, if anything, Schneizel is the perfect utilitarian. It's not the moral theory I agree with, but it comes closer than a lot of others, so under certain circumstances, I might actually have rooted for him.
Also, it's exactly why there would be no point in him trying to take the throne. As things are now, he definitely would cause more suffering and unhappiness by it than he would prevent. Since Schneizel does not desire power for the sake of power, he would only intervene if the world reverted back to its former state, or close to it. If I remember correctly, he didn't even plan to kill Charles until it became obvious he didn't give a damn.
And Lelouch... ah, it depends. He had more options available than Schneizel to reach his goal at one point and indeed chose to kill a lot of people where it might not have been necessary. However, I'd pick Zero Requiem over Damocles any day.
Schneizel had no faith in people's ability to shape their own future. Lelouch had no faith in their ability to let go of their past without help, and a lot of other issues.
Neither of them was perfect - in fact, they were pretty flawed -, but both can be seen as the most moral characters of the show from a certain standpoint.

[azul120]

Again, I'd say Zero Requiem happened mainly because Lelouch fell through the Despair Event Horizon following R2 19 and essentially became Suzaku 2.0.

[bladeofdarkness]

suzauk didnt intentionally try to take others down with him
just accidently :heh:

[morbosfist]

suzauk didnt intentionally try to take others down with him
just accidently :heh:Then R1 18 was? I'd also argue his entire mindset was dying while taking others down with him, those he deemed immoral at any rate.

[Revolutionist]

Then R1 18 was?

Suzaku was ordered to, there's a difference between following orders and sacrificing your own life and just randomly killing people because you're later going to pay for it with your own life.
I think that's what he means anyway, correct me if Im wrong.

[azul120]

suzauk didnt intentionally try to take others down with him
just accidently :heh:

Yep, because of his silly wish to die. Strawman, sorry, Mao was right.

[morbosfist]

Suzaku was ordered to, there's a difference between following orders and sacrificing your own life and just randomly killing people because you're later going to pay for it with your own life.
I think that's what he means anyway, correct me if Im wrong.Nevertheless, he's sacrificing the lives of others because of his own wish to die. All the orders do is provide him an excuse to do it.

What Lelouch did is different, no doubt about that.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

I've re-worked and made all of my data in the RIP group more organized and cohesive for anyone who cares. :) link (http://forums.animesuki.com/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=975)

[stardrago]

I was wondering what is the connection with the symbol Geass, the Symbol for Ultraman Noa/Next/Nexus, and the crest of Kamen Rider Ixa's helmet were they all surporse to be symbols for the light/sun?

[darthfury78]

I was wondering what is the connection with the symbol Geass, the Symbol for Ultraman Noa/Next/Nexus, and the crest of Kamen Rider Ixa's helmet were they all surporse to be symbols for the light/sun?

Season Two barely covered the Geass Storyline and the meaning behind its history. Just the events that leads to the Zero Requiem finale. Such ashame, really. :eyebrow:

[Rising Dragon]

Yes, Darth. Let's just ignore the fact that the writer and director said they weren't going to explain everything in the first place.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

I was wondering what is the connection with the symbol Geass, the Symbol for Ultraman Noa/Next/Nexus, and the crest of Kamen Rider Ixa's helmet were they all surporse to be symbols for the light/sun?

Certainly no connection between animes. The geass symbol is just a chevron that conveniently sits around the pupil. I don't think it's supposed to resemble anything but perhaps a bird. Which I could only guess is linked to pink paper cranes and the fact that 'geis' is mispronounced "geese". And maybe the fact that Lleu Llaw Gyffes transformed into an eagle.

[geewhiz]

I don't think it's supposed to resemble anything but perhaps a bird. Which I could only guess is linked to pink paper cranes and the fact that 'geis' is mispronounced "geese". Lol - I brought that up a few pages ago in this thread, here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2755309#post2755309).

[Kid Ying]

So... Any news about new stuff? I remember someone saying that there was going to be an announce of something in Lelouch's birthday...

[Nobodyman9]

So... Any news about new stuff? I remember someone saying that there was going to be an announce of something in Lelouch's birthday...
Yeah, that's the live stage performance in Japan, but it's not gonna happen until December (actually the beginning of December, so it's about a week or two away) So until then, unless there's a magazine article or something, we're not gonna have anything new.

[Paladinoras]

Yeah, that's the live stage performance in Japan, but it's not gonna happen until December (actually the beginning of December, so it's about a week or two away) So until then, unless there's a magazine article or something, we're not gonna have anything new.

Seriously...it's over two years old, what do you people expect? Lol

[eaglei3]

Seriously...it's over two years old, what do you people expect? Lol

New Series would be my guess. (Not at this Lelouch Birthday thing... I'm just saying in general people would possibly expect a new series after two years.)

[Nobodyman9]

Seriously...it's over two years old, what do you people expect? Lol
Don't look at me. Kid Ying is the one that asked. I'll I'm saying is that, as far as new Code Geass-related material, we only have the upcoming live stage performance to look forward. Though I would love it if they came out with a new series.

[Paladinoras]

I am only saying that despite the awesomeness of Code Geass, that does not mean that new Code Geass merchandise/news are gonna come out every week or so.

[Dead Cake]

Seriously...it's over two years old, what do you people expect? Lol

I think the odds for a spin-off/OVA are quite good. I mean it's weird that they would arrange huge event out of nowhere just to give the fans false hope. And just look how many spin-offs Gundam has :D Afterall Sunrise has said that they are interested in continuing the story of the Geass-universe.

In comparison Kuroshitsuji anime had a similar seiyuu-event and a sequel was announced even though it is pretty much impossible to continue from the ending of the first season.

[Paladinoras]

I think the odds for a spin-off/OVA are quite good. I mean it's weird that they would arrange huge event out of nowhere just to give the fans false hope. And just look how many spin-offs Gundam has :D Afterall Sunrise has said that they are interested in continuing the story of the Geass-universe.

In comparison Kuroshitsuji anime had a similar seiyuu-event and a sequel was announced even though it is pretty much impossible to continue from the ending of the first season.

Gundam was different. It is an established franchise and ppl could just make another alternate universe...That is why UC is so dead right now. Code Geass doesn't have the same fanbase as of now.

[darthfury78]

Gundam was different. It is an established franchise and ppl could just make another alternate universe...That is why UC is so dead right now. Code Geass doesn't have the same fanbase as of now.

There is a way to go around this problem. The producers could simply create an alternate universe storyline, based on the original scrapped plans for Season 2, where Lelouch wins the conflict against Suzaku, from where Stage 25 had left off. From there, a new storyline could be developed.

Also, a new spinoff of Code Geass could have a prequel that would feature a younger Charles and Marianne, around the 1990's.

There isn't a lack of ideals for Code Geass. It's a matter of who could unleash that potential. :cool:

This was a suggestion that I had mentioned, in my letter, to Taniguchi. I told him that an alternate universe of Code Geass where Lelouch wins against Suzaku could pave the way for a different storyline. And the only way for Lelouch to win is with Kallen's help. She might have been the one to have fired the shot at Suzaku. Thus, she might have stayed to help Lelouch instead of running/abandoning him in the flashback episode in Code Geass R2. This is where Suzaku won the showdown against Lelouch. Kallen's decision affected that outcome of the story.

[geewhiz]

This was a suggestion that I had mentioned, in my letter, to Taniguchi. I told him that an alternate universe of Code Geass where Lelouch wins against Suzaku could pave the way for a different storyline.Nuh-uh. Even if there was a third season of Code Geass, the odds of which I can't even chalk up to slim to none, it would not feature Lelouch as a central character.

[Rising Dragon]

Nuh-uh. Even if there was a third season of Code Geass, the odds of which I can't even chalk up to slim to none, it would not feature Lelouch as a central character.

Yeah, as it is, Code Geass' chew toy is down for repairs. He got chewed on one too many times.

[Nobodyman9]

Yeah, as it is, Code Geass' chew toy is down for repairs. He got chewed on one too many times.
He got chewed up, spit out, stomped on, burned down, and then they pissed on the ashes. So yeah...

[Rising Dragon]

Frankly, the guy needs a break.

[azul120]

Yeah, as it is, Code Geass' chew toy is down for repairs. He got chewed on one too many times.

Out of service? That's a good one.

You know, if they made a gag side series, perhaps chibi style, I bet Lelouch would still have ridiculously bad things happening to him, a LOT. Imagine all the hilarious Fukuyama Jun freakouts!

[Xander]

Gundam was different. It is an established franchise and ppl could just make another alternate universe...That is why UC is so dead right now. Code Geass doesn't have the same fanbase as of now.

That was a different show, a different time and so on...but keep in mind that Gundam only became an established franchise because, precisely, new series were produced over the years long after the original's unexpected success.

Also, there's a far more recent example of what could easily happen to Code Geass:

My-Hime (TV, 2004)
My-Otome (TV, 2005)
My-Otome Zwei (OVA, 2006)
My-Otome 0~S.ifr~ (OVA, 2008)

Whether that's a good or bad thing is a matter of opinion, but I think each product should be evaluated on its own.

Out of service? That's a good one.

You know, if they made a gag side series, perhaps chibi style, I bet Lelouch would still have ridiculously bad things happening to him, a LOT. Imagine all the hilarious Fukuyama Jun freakouts!

As long as we're speculating, I'd certainly pay to see 12 episodes of that. :heh:

[darthfury78]

Nuh-uh. Even if there was a third season of Code Geass, the odds of which I can't even chalk up to slim to none, it would not feature Lelouch as a central character.

It would not be a third season, per se. It would be the original version of Code Geass R2 that was scrapped. Thus, a new storyline could take place from there.

There was an illustration, somewhere, that talked about a Code Geass Prequel. The series would have Charles, Marianne, and Bismark. The storyline took place in the 1990's. So it had the younger versions of them in the story. I am not sure if this was to have been a novel or not. But it was mentioned last year.

I don't know if there will be another season of Code Geass. If they do produce another Code Geass TV show, I would rather see a remake of Season 2, in its original format before it was scrapped. I want to see how Lelouch was able to defeat Suzaku, and all of the other information that was removed from the storyline.

I am still hopeful that Taniguchi will get to re-tell Code Geass R2, from Stage 26 to Stage 50. The series is successful enough to allow that option to be granted by Sunrise.

Since it is now public knowledge that the original plans for Code Geass R2 was scrapped, we might as well see that version of it, good or bad, get created. This would put an end to all of the speculative rumors surounding the Not As Planned Second Season, except for the ending. Although, the ending of the new version could always be changed.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

:uhoh: Oh my gosh. How many times can we talk about the same thing?

My bet's on a nice even twenty.

[D-KLAC]

oh no look like another geass on the work for "rebirth" in 2010 (yea heard it on ANN) but my guess would be

1.nightmare of nuna
2.suzaku's counter
3.restart/reboot of the series (to alter & prevent to SAVE the series)
4.is "he" alive?!

[Nobodyman9]

oh no look like another geass on the work for "rebirth" in 2010 (yea heard it on ANN) but my guess would be

1.nightmare of nuna
2.suzaku's counter
3.restart/reboot of the series (to alter & prevent to SAVE the series)
4.is "he" alive?!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!! !!!!!!!!!!!
You beat me to it!

Oh well, here's a link for more info.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-12-04/new-code-geass-project-launch-revealed

[D-KLAC]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!! !!!!!!!!!!!
You beat me to it!

Oh well, here's a link for more info.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-12-04/new-code-geass-project-launch-revealed

well thank for the link & besides i'm still wonder about the "rebirth" mention really if "he" is alive well i told ya "he" is alive.

but there are other like

1.restart/reboot of geass to alter some events even prevent some lives lost to get 2nd chance
2.nightmare or counter to be anime
3.a new story like maybe someone from the future to alter whole event in r1 & r2 to save everything in both past & future.

[Nobodyman9]

Well, they just announced it so it's gonna be pretty vague until we get more info in 2010. Frankly, I just hope and pray that they don't bring Lelouch back to life. Of course I'd be cool with a remake, a sequel, a completely new series, or a movie or whatever. An anime adaptation of NoN or SotC wouldn't thrill me, but I guess it'd be all right.

[yvj]

HAI GAISE IS THERE SUM NEW SERIES?

Sunrise: To troll or not to troll.

I may change my mind but at this very moment, I'd like for them to move on from the universe we got (unless Kalulu gets to be canon amirite?) and bring in some new blood, I.E fresh characters. Last thing I need is more Oughi, or more derailed Suzaku.

No prequels, no sequels unless a really decent amount of time has passed. As much as I dig the mangificent bastard and his crazy ways, no lelouch.

If it's an alternate universe hopefully its closer to Gundam Wing than G Seed. (A pox on those who blaspheme against GW)

So if it's a new series, whose coming back to the forums?

[Zwei]

An opportunity to make more profit of a famous franchise. :rolleyes:

[Nobodyman9]

I may change my mind but at this very moment, I'd like for them to move on from the universe we got (unless Shirlulu gets to be canon amirite?) and bring in some new blood, I.E fresh characters. Last thing I need is more Oughi, or more derailed Suzaku.
Agreed. Just so long as I can change that one word.

So if it's a new series, whose coming back to the forums?
Well, you can count on me to be here every step of the way. And I'm sure the usual posters (blade, morbos, RD, geewhiz, Loli, etc.) will be here too I presume?

[SonOfHeaven]

So if it's a new series, whose coming back to the forums?

I don't mind if its an alternate universe. Different/same characters(More Kallen :)) would be alright to me. An manga adaptation wouldn't sit well with me. Rather have something new that no one would know what's next.

I'll be here posting as well.

[azul120]

One where at least either Euphie or Shirley doesn't get screwed over.

[D-KLAC]

yet if new season well there will be lots of questions that must be answered for such as

1.what happen during those time-skips?
2.who else knew the "re; plan" of lelouch?
3.where is "his" body after the "act"?
4.c2's name?

besides so many questions to asked & must be answered as long if my idea for new story where someone alter events of r1 & r2 to prevent & SAVED lives to give timeline a new era & everything in REAL happy ending to save both past & future.

[jorez]

I love you Sunrise. Please, never change.

[ImmortalFire]

Man, it's been a while since I came here.

So what's this news about a new series? Man, I can't wait to get more info on this. I want to know what it's about. Hopefully it's not a direct sequel with Lelouch being alive. Now another question to keep in mind is if Sunrise is going to turn Code Geass into an entire franchise.

[Xander]

I'd love to see them actually have the guts to start showing us something concrete though, instead of merely teasing fans without any kind of self-restraint. Oh well...I suppose time will take care of that.

[stardrago]

If they do bring back Lelouch I would like it to be like they did in Kamen Rider the First for the second Hopper; an organization, found his body and began reconstructive surgery on him as well as facial surgery on his face but kept the scar on his chest and back when Zero stabbed him. His apperance will be like Rai (from the game Lost Colors) have white hair, his left eye will be dark red and his right eye be blue, and his skin be a bit more tan. In his cyborg form it will be a cross between Ultraman Nexus and Kamen rider Double and in that state he is known as Nex ( for The Next and Nexus)

[GundamFan0083]

So Sunrise has finally decided to rape Code Geass for all it's worth. :D
Why am I NOT surprised by this?

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-12-04/new-code-geass-project-launch-revealed

I'm pretty sure I posted the Char Aznable analology here....Char died in 0079, came back in Zeta, died in Char's Counterattack, and is back yet again in Unicorn...yep, time to bend over and prepare to take it up the tail pipe, I smell a sequel on the horizon.
Thanks Sunrise...the world really needs another Gundam. :|

[azul120]

As long as he returns by plausible means and his resumed existence leads to character development, it's okay.

For now I just hope they don't leave us hanging for too long on their future plans. I hate when companies carrot dangle like that.

[GundamFan0083]

This is Sunrise we're talking about.
How many times have they resurrected a main character to make a profit.

Hell practically the whole cast of Gundam oo gets whacked in the first series only to return (some inexplicably) in the second season. That's the latest Gundam show thus far which means Sunrise is in the "surprise they're still alive" mode.

[aeriolewinters]

I'm pretty sure I posted the Char Aznable analology here....Char died in 0079, came back in Zeta, died in Char's Counterattack, and is back yet again in Unicorn...yep, time to bend over and prepare to take it up the tail pipe, I smell a sequel on the horizon.
Thanks Sunrise...the world really needs another Gundam. :|

Except that Frontal isn't even the Char from those other series, he's a clone of the real Char, not Casval.

As for the project, I'd want it to be
Nightmare of Nunnally.

[Narona]

Hooooooooooooooooray!

A new Code Geass series :D hehe

[revival]

I do not understand how a lot of people whine about the new material. Everyone loved the wankery in Geass, cause it was an amazing trollery.
At any rate, let us wait and see what it is gonna be about. I got a feeling, it is gonna be the Zerozaku-Chronicles or something.

[Lolipopo]

Okay someone, just avoid telling me that Lelouch is alive and that Kagino is canon and STAB ME RIGHT NOW PLEASE.

(Honest I don't think he'll be alive cause he is dead meat, but they'd better move on from every characters but C.C.. Give us more about her and her eternal life and FORGET ABOUT THE OTHERS. )

(Yvj : Yay, everyone will be back o/)

@Azul : For Euphie OK , but for Shirley DONT GET YOUR HOPES TOO HIGH. This girl is meant to be a ship to be sacrificed.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

PLEASE FUEL THE DELUSIONAL FANTARDS, SUNRISE.

Here come the trolls..

But in all seriousness, either way, thank God they're going to do something official that will shut everyone the fuck up.

[Lolipopo]

PLEASE FUEL THE DELUSIONAL FANTARDS, SUNRISE.

Here come the trolls..


THAT IS SUNRISE JOB !
Here are coming some delicious future months of wank and trolls and wars and shipwars...
I'm definitely IN :'D

[bladeofdarkness]

i dont care all that much WHAT they do, so long as they dont bring lelouch back to life after zero-requiem
there is a LOT of potential to explore the post ZR world and characters, and lelouch simply sucks up all the attention
besides, bringing him back would be missing the whole POINT of zero-requiem

[revival]

I could give a flying fuck if they bring Lelouch back with a believable way, but i doubt it will happen, cause ok, the ending was so much epicness, why ruin that.
But i would not mind, cause Lelouch is my fav chara and that would mean moar Kalulu angst, "oh yes, yes gimme your milk Sunrise!11"
BUT. it might be an OAV about past events or some shit, idk.
At any rate, dude, we cannot deny, that Halcyon days might come back. I can already feel the wank running through my vains. YES.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

i dont care all that much WHAT they do, so long as they dont bring lelouch back to life after zero-requiem
there is a LOT of potential to explore the post ZR world and characters, and lelouch simply sucks up all the attention
besides, bringing him back would be missing the whole POINT of zero-requiem

I agree wholeheartedly! It would be too wonderful for them not to ruin it!!

But at this point I really don't know if I care in the end whether they do or not, just as long as this fanbase stops being stupid and trolly and speculative.

I'm really, really tired of looking at a giant visible rift in the Code Geass fandom that looks like:

Intelligent ......|.................Dumb
*............*.....|...*..***..*.*..**
........*...........|.**********...*
.....................|....*..***.**.***
...*................|.*.**.******...*
.....................|.*...*******.*.*
...............*....|.****.**.*.****
.....................|.....***.**...*..*

[Narona]

i dont care all that much WHAT they do, so long as they dont bring lelouch back to life after zero-requiem
there is a LOT of potential to explore the post ZR world and characters, and lelouch simply sucks up all the attention
besides, bringing him back would be missing the whole POINT of zero-requiem
TBH, in my case, I don't really care. As i said many times before, I would prefer Lelouch to stay dead. But if they find a believable excuse to bring him back, I'll not yell either.

At least, I have the feeling that they will use the "zero" figure again, since the official message about that new project is signed "Zero".

[revival]

TBH, in my case, I don't really care. As i said many times before, I would prefer Lelouch to stay dead. But if they find a believable excuse to bring him back, I'll not yell either.

At least, I have the feeling that they will use the "zero" figure again, since the official message about that new project is signed "Zero".

Zero IS the main factor of Geass's verse, it was kind of default he was gonna be on.

I agree though, about Lelouch being back in a believable way. Though, my tears last years went to vain. Oh well, show must go on.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

Obviously it involves Zero. Someone made a good point on the ANN thread that Zero can't be Lelouch, because in a prequel he would be too young to be Zero and in a sequel Suzaku would be Zero.

[revival]

Obviously it involves Zero. Someone made a good point on the ANN thread that Zero can't be Lelouch, because in a prequel he would be too young to be Zero and in a sequel Suzaku would be Zero.

It is obvious it is gonna be a sequel. The chronicles of Lelouch wanting to get back his Zero status from Suzaku, cause Suzaku felt way too comfy as Zero. Sounds delicious.

[bladeofdarkness]

that actually IS a really good point
the question is, does the story focus on zero, or is he a side character
and while we're at it, is he an protagonist or antagonist in this new show ?

[Zetsubou Bunny]

Lol, they can't side-story Zero. Zero is Zero.

[revival]

that actually IS a really good point
the question is, does the story focus on zero, or is he a side character
and while we're at it, is he an protagonist or antagonist in this new show ?

Zero is always gonna be the symbol of justice, one way or the other. /we need KallenZero btw, double force of Zeros.

[yvj]

Lelouch will come back as a Zombie then technically he'll be dead and alive so everybody wins. Kallen of course will remain badass and hawt.

I don't know if it makes much sense to be in the same time line though. I mean what kind of bad guy is going to spring up after after everybody just got through surviving an epic word war. It's gonna feel forced most likely.

[Narona]

Obviously it involves Zero. Someone made a good point on the ANN thread that Zero can't be Lelouch, because in a prequel he would be too young to be Zero and in a sequel Suzaku would be Zero.
In a sequel right after CG1, yeah, possibly, even if suzaku could give it back to him for whatever reasons if they bring him back.

But it can be 100 years later as far as we know.

Now if they want to bring back lelouch if it takes place so far in the future, I have no clue. (reincarnation perhaps. "A la" Link in the zelda games.)

For now, I'll just enjoy that announcement :)

[revival]

For now, I'll just enjoy that announcement :)

Like we all do, dude, like we all do. /though, there is always whiny-whining, which i do not get, since it was just an announcement, it is not like they said "we're gonna troll you lololol" <--which prolly is gonna be the case, but till we are SURE about it, let us rejoice.

[Narona]

Like we all do, dude, like we all do. /though, there is always whiny-whining, which i do not get, since it was just an announcement, it is not like they said "we're gonna troll you lololol" <--which prolly is gonna be the case, but since we are SURE about it, let us rejoice.

People like to overreact in the CG fandom. Get used to it.

Anyway, in case you missed it, as I said above. They could use the reincarnation excuse (same as nintendo does about Link) if they want to bring im back far in the future.

(BTW: i'm a girl! So no "dude" plz XD)

[bladeofdarkness]

Lelouch will come back as a Zombie then technically he'll be dead and alive so everybody wins. Kallen of course will remain badass and hawt.

I don't know if it makes much sense to be in the same time line though. I mean what kind of bad guy is going to spring up after after everybody just got through surviving an epic word war. It's gonna feel forced most likely.

i told you already
the best way to have an interesting conflict is to have the bad guys be victims of zero-requiem
people who lost their family to lelouch's reign of terror
soldiers who were brainwashed by lelouch and are now treated like SS officers were treated in our world post WWII
and all of them wanting suzaku/lelouch's head for what they did to them

if you pick a plain evil enemy - then the story gets boring and one dimensional
by picking enemies who could be considered the one who have justice on THEIR side - then you get an interesting story to work with

[revival]

People like to overreact in the CG fandom. Get used to it.

Anyway, in case you missed it, as I said above. They could use the reincarnation excuse (same as nintendo does about Link) if they want to bring im back far in the future.

(BTW: i'm a girl! So no "dude" plz XD)

Ahh, i have been in the Geass fandom since it FIRST started, so yes, i am used to it. And i love it. Makes half of the show for me.

And, the reincarnation would be kind of dull for me to be honest, but idk, let us see how everything is gonna get played out


(but the word dude, is being used for girls and boys now. but alright, if it insults you, i'll leave it.)

ETA: Blade, you taking Geass WAY too srsly dude.

[yvj]

i told you already
the best way to have an interesting conflict is to have the bad guys be victims of zero-requiem
people who lost their family to lelouch's reign of terror
soldiers who were brainwashed by lelouch and are now treated like SS officers were treated in our world post WWII
and all of them wanting suzaku/lelouch's head for what they did to them

if you pick a plain evil enemy - then the story gets boring and one dimensional
by picking enemies who could be considered the one who have justice on THEIR side - then you get an interesting story to work with

So who do they have a beef with? Lelouch back from the grave? It already sounds bad.

You know what kind of show this is. It's about magic people, robots, and huge contrived plot lines.

[revival]

You know what kind of show this is. It's about magic people, robots, and huge contrived plot lines.

And angsty couples being subtly canon. fix'd.

[bladeofdarkness]

one of the best parts (of season 1 at least) in geass was that both lelouch AND suzaku could be viewed as having a good point
either could be seen as "the hero" of the story under the right conditions

you cant replicate that if you turn the enemies into some evil cult and have all the good guys fight them
its as black and white as it gets that way
code geass is a show that thrives on grey
it would lose much of its impact if you turn it into a "good guys" vs "bad guys" show

So who do they have a beef with? Lelouch back from the grave? It already sounds bad.
assuming lelouch stays dead
they want suzaku's head (they would know he is zero)
but it would be more complex then that
there would have to be more factors involved

a civil war within the UFN maybe
or global tensions stemming from the fact that the world is slowly but surely running out of sakuradite
nina's research from before she went crazy could come into play to try and solve that problem
she could be kidnapped by the "bad guys" because of it

[Meatrose]

Worst... news... ever...

[revival]

one of the best parts (of season 1 at least) in geass was that both lelouch AND suzaku could be viewed as having a good point
either could be seen as "the hero" of the story under the right conditions

you cant replicate that if you turn the enemies into some evil cult and have all the good guys fight them
its as black and white as it gets that way
code geass is a show that thrives on grey
it would lose much of its impact if you turn it into a "good guys" vs "bad guys" show

Ah Jesus, leave S1 in the past blade. R2 is all about being amazing trolling with deep messages, every once in a while, and epic tracks. That IS Geass. /and of course, Lelouch GOD

Btw, also, what you said about zomg soldiers or everyone else getting int he way of Zerozaku in the third season cause they were brainwashed or what, does not make SENSE AT ALL. EVERY single person sees Zero as the savior of all the world. No one would go against him. I mean, for what reason? Cause he freed them for Lulu-satan-emperor? No.
The only people that will want to go away, are those that are fans of monarchy and shit like this. What you said above-above, made no sense. at all.

p.s you forgot the power of geass stands for eternity, so what you STILL saying for the soldiers, will never happen.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

Lelouch will come back as a Zombie then technically he'll be dead and alive so everybody wins. Kallen of course will remain badass and hawt.

I don't know if it makes much sense to be in the same time line though. I mean what kind of bad guy is going to spring up after after everybody just got through surviving an epic word war. It's gonna feel forced most likely.

I would actually find myself guiltily enjoying that. <3

ETA: Blade, you taking Geass WAY too srsly dude.

Ah, no. It's called rationality.

[yvj]

one of the best parts (of season 1 at least) in geass was that both lelouch AND suzaku could be viewed as having a good point
either could be seen as "the hero" of the story under the right conditions

you cant replicate that if you turn the enemies into some evil cult and have all the good guys fight them
its as black and white as it gets that way
code geass is a show that thrives on grey
it would lose much of its impact if you turn it into a "good guys" vs "bad guys" show

Lets' not kid ourselves completely though. No matter how gray Lelouch was he had a "Big Bad" to fight throughout most of the series.

You can't say the show did not thrive on a Britania and a evil cult.

[revival]

Ah, no. It's called rationality.

Ah, no. There is no rationality in these kind of shows, ya know.

[Zetsubou Bunny]

Ah, no. There is no rationality in these kind of shows, ya know.

Everything has to have a certain amount of rationality in order to be believable.

[yvj]

Everything has to have a certain amount of rationality in order to be believable.

Suzaku dodged machine gun bullets and spun kicked a turret

[Zetsubou Bunny]

Suzaku dodged machine gun bullets and spun kicked a turret

A certain amount. The basics behind everything have to be believable enough. Besides that, he's Suzaku.

[bladeofdarkness]

You can't say the show did not thrive on a Britania and a evil cult.

but this time, you dont have someone as "light" as season 1 suzaku to balance him out and require for him to compete against

on the one side you have suzaku, who is the definition of "villain with good publicity" who wants to bring about a united world as per lelouch's plan (despite the fact that a considerable number of the UFN member states dont want to be part of the UFN anymore)

on the other side, you have people who want to kill him and trigger a civil war within the UFN so it would fall apart and return to being single states again (which is what much of it actually wants)

both sides are equally dark

[revival]

Everything has to have a certain amount of rationality in order to be believable.

Um, it is an anime. I do not need literature-speeches in order to get what is going on, thank you. My point WAS. that blade is insisting on something, that is NOT gonna happen, and is taking way too srsly the whole soldiers-part in the last arc of r2. They were just pwns of Lelouch. They will never have another role in the series. We get that?
Was that enough rational for you?

ps. people take your light/dark views on the moral thread, now e enjoying the announcement about geass.

[Lolipopo]

You don't get it guys.

It's going to be a spin off.

LULUKO OF THE REVOLUTION FUCK YES !
(And Suzuka De Arc will be her BFF, and daughter of ZeroZaku and Nunally.)

BTW. Luluko will have blue eyes. GUESS WHO IS THE MOTHER ?

(Oh lol it looks like we are back to the good old days. How cute.)

[bladeofdarkness]

is there A moral thread ?
besides, these are speculations about the new show

[Zetsubou Bunny]

Um, it is an anime. I do not need literature-speeches in order to get what is going on, thank you. My point WAS. that blade is insisting on something, that is NOT gonna happen, and is taking way too srsly the whole soldiers-part in the last arc of r2. They were just pwns of Lelouch. They will never have another role in the series. We get that?
Was that enough rational for you?

ps. people take your light/dark views on the moral thread, now e enjoying the announcement about geass.

Oh, if that's the part you were nitpicking, then yes. I agree. Some things just have to be accepted in order to enjoy the show.

[revival]

BTW. Luluko will have blue eyes. GUESS WHO IS THE MOTHER ?



Ah, C.C No wait, ANYA. Hum, no wait, EUPHIE. No wait, she is dead. SHIRLEY. No wait, she is dead.
Oh wait...IT CAN;T BE. DON;T.

[bladeofdarkness]

the speculations were about a new antagonist
you cant have a completely "black" antagonist if you want an interesting conflict
not in a real robot anime
and definitely not in a code geass one


BTW. Luluko will have blue eyes. GUESS WHO IS THE MOTHER ?

milly :heh:

[revival]

Oh, if that's the part you were nitpicking, then yes. I agree. Some things just have to be accepted in order to enjoy the show.

That was it, actually. Sorry if i came off as aggressive and yes, i do agree, that a show that is supposed to be about politics and stuff, cannot be all Lagann-ish material, meaning whatever the hell can happen, but we cannot TAKE EVERY SINGLE THING with a salt of rationality, cause some things, are not supposed to be taken serious.

[Last Sinner]

News just posted on official Code Geass site: (taken from ANN)

Bandai's mobile phone website m-pub.channel.or.jp is hosting a graphic that reads as follows:

New Code Geass Project Launch Green-Lit!

Wait for more info in 2010!!

The image adds that this project represents a "rebirth" and that Geass will take a new step starting today. The message is signed with the name, "ZERO."

In the January 2009 issue of Gakken's Animedia magazine, the Sunrise anime studio indicated the possibility of more plans for its Code Geass science-fiction franchise. Sunrise created and animated the Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion television anime series and its R2 sequel. Sunrise did not indicate the format that any hypothetical future plans might take. The Adult Swim television programming block ran Bandai Entertainment's adaptation of the R2 sequel in North America.


Looks like this ain't over yet!

[yvj]

milly :heh:

Blasphemy

I still think it would be really forced to have the show in the aftermath of ZR.

WE as the viewer know what Suzaku did. But what evidence does anyone in the world have that Zero didn't save them from a tyrant? ZR is pretty much an airtight case. It makes no sense for Lelouch to have screwed up any loose ends seeing how such a ridiculously meticulous plan ended up working in the first place down to the very minute detail.

Plus if anyone was pissed at Lelouch, the could turn to Schniezel, Nunnaly, Xianxe. All the "good" people are in charge.

[bladeofdarkness]

Blasphemy

I still think it would be really forced to have the show in the aftermath of ZR.

WE as the viewer know what Suzaku did. But what evidence does anyone in the world have that Zero didn't save them from a tyrant? ZR is pretty much an airtight case. It makes no sense for Lelouch to have screwed up any loose ends seeing how such a ridiculously meticulous plan ended up working in the first place down to the very minute detail.

Plus if anyone was pissed at Lelouch, the could turn to Schniezel, Nunnaly, Xianxe. All the "good" people are in charge.

exactly
its a ridiculously complex plan with too many variables
do lelouch's plans usually work out without a hitch ?
of course not, they explode in his face and end up hurting those he loves
having zero-requiem turn into a big "nice job breaking it hero" is not simply possible
its practically in character for lelouch

nunnaly shnizel and all the others fought AGAINST lelouch
suzaku helped him take power
hence, he would be the target of whoever sought revenge

[Lolipopo]

ah, c.c no wait, anya. Hum, no wait, euphie. No wait, she is dead. Shirley. No wait, she is dead.
Oh wait...it can;t be. Don;t.

You guessed it right.

[revival]

you guessed it right.

b-but when? OH WAIT, the scene that was cut from Turn -22 "love of my life, you hurrrttt meee" Yeah, makes sense.

Lol, no srsly, imagine if we get couple-trolled ultimately. man,

[yvj]

exactly
its a ridiculously complex plan with too many variables
do lelouch's plans usually work out without a hitch ?
of course not, they explode in his face and end up hurting those he loves
having zero-requiem turn into a big "nice job breaking it hero" is not simply possible
its practically in character for lelouch

See though it flies in the face of his "Gloriously" depicted death and what it was all about.

You telling me he pulled all that out, sacrificed it all, and he couldn't get peace to last a single generation? Couldn't even get Nunnaly live out her life in peace?

What the hell was the point then?

[bladeofdarkness]

See though it flies in the face of his "Gloriously" depicted death and what it was all about.

You telling me he pulled out that out, sacrificed it all, and he couldn't get peace to last a single generation? Couldn't even get Nunnaly live out her life in peace?

What the hell was the point then?
nope
not a generation
2 years
he intentionally picked a course of action where peace is NOT assured after all (unlike charles and shnizel)

lelouch ended the OLD war between britannia and the rest of the world
the WORLD war
he took the blame for the hate of the old war, and made sure nunnaly would not have to live in a world where half the worlds population hates her simply for being britannian (and kallen, for being japanese)
THAT was the point, and the gain

he also triggered the circumstance that led to the next conflict
by destroying mount fuji, he caused a situation where sooner or later, war would break out over the last of the sakuradite (imagine what happens if 70% of the worlds oil supply vanishes)
and by hurting all those people during zero-requiem, he created the new antagonists who would come after those he loves, and seek to destory what he created
THAT would be the price

[Lolipopo]

b-but when? OH WAIT, the scene that was cut from Turn -22 "love of my life, you hurrrttt meee" Yeah, makes sense.

Lol, no srsly, imagine if we get couple-trolled ultimately. man,


I don't wanna think about that, I'm convinced the guy is dead, I trust Sunrise.
They'll end up bringing back Athrun and Cagalli together BTW (Cry more loli, think that instead of this new serie they could have finally make this movie theyr PROMISED US SINCE 2005 !)

And yeah, the scene in Turn 22 was definitely cutted. Kallen's eyes were BRIGHT when she was starting at the screen *-*
The girl got her fuuun :'D

[yvj]

nope
not a generation
2 years

lelouch ended the OLD war between britannia and the rest of the world
he took the blame for the hate of the old war, and made sure nunnaly would not have to live in a world where half the worlds population hates her simply for being britannian (and kallen, for being japanese)
THAT was the point, and the gain

he also triggered the circumstance that led to the next conflict
by destroying mount fuji, he caused a situation where sooner or later, war would break out over the last of the sakuradite (imagine what happens if 70% of the worlds oil supply vanishes)
and by hurting all those people during zero-requiem, he created the new antagonists who would come after those he loves, and seek to destory what he created
THAT would be the price

Don't get your hopes up Blade it seems highly unlikely the show would turn on Lelouch like that. When essentially he was portrayed to die as a hero.

anyway I already described what R3 would be like weeks ago

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2692436&postcount=6320

[magnum]

The subject is "Rebirth".

That's mean that the geass will gonna be have a rebirth since Lelouch put an end to all of the geass.
Or maybe Lelouch (just like every fans wants) revive. But I hope it is not true.

But could somebody translate this Japanese words sothat we can understand it.

http://triangler.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/20091205cgdonothotlink.jpg?w=240&h=400

[Last Sinner]

I see either 2 possibilities - a continuation of the storyline that has been followed or Nightmare of Nunnaly gets a series.

[Kid Ying]

Code geass: you are (not) alone.

Either way, its more CG? IM INTO IT!

[skyline^]

more like: you are (not) dead

[Kid Ying]

Well, we need to know if it's a sequel or new stuff unrelated to the first one. I'm quite satisfied with both, but to me, some kind of remake would be better. R2 was perfect, it's not necessary to change how it ended just for the sake of more episodes. A new story, just like Gainax is doing with Evangelion, would be much welcome for me. New possibilities, new chars, more Kalulu being canon... I can't ask for more.

[revival]

Btw, to the zomg endless whinings about Lelouch getting back, does anyone remember that the director said that Lelouch's story IS OVER, but Geass can be explored more? I think, it is safe to assume that Lelouch will not be coming back. /it is obvious he prefers to stay hidden in a certain bed. hur

[npal]

Well, I have nothing to lose or gain from any totally new CG material, don't really care much either way. Lelouch getting revived though... the nerdrage would be splendid to behold. :D