View Full Version : Higurashi Episode 23 Discussion / Poll
Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 23.
Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for RAWs.
Try to keep spoilers from the Game or Manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Game / Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.
Spoiler Tag Usage
Using Spoiler Tags is easy. Using this...
Don't forget to use the spoiler title
....will get you this...
Don't forget to use the spoiler title
ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni
Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) before you ask questions!!!
Feel free to utilize the info on the TIPS section (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31732) as a complement to this series.
Feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting.
I am designating Sushi-Y and Freakman to lead the discussion in the correct path without spoilers as they have played the game in advance. I put confidence in them that they will recognize a member has spilled the beans too far if any other members has begun to play the game.
SPOILERS FAR ADVANCED THAN THE CURRENT AIRED ANIME EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS INCLUDES THOSE IN SPOILER TAGS!!!. People tend to peek at spoiler tags; especially when they do not know such tag is meant for the episode, only to find it spilling the beans too far advanced in the game storyline.
Yes I know it is earlier than usual, but I have bunch of stuff to take care of tomorrow. In any case, here's the thread for Ep. 23. Have fun! I hope they do the pivotal scenes right....
Having not played the game, I don't know if they did them right. But a lot of shit hits the fan this episode.
I love the way they all banded together to protect Rena. And that song they play, it's pretty dang awesome. Track 1 on the soundtrack.
Also: Damn you, Ooishi!
Gave it a 9.
It felt like the story was played in fast-forward until the confrontation scene between Rena and Rina at the dump site, which, I guess, isn't that big of a deal, as long as the major points are delivered.
Now then, the most important scenes in this part of the story were obviously:
The killing of Rina and Teppei. As well as the scene after the end of the flashback, where everyone accepted and forgave Rena's deeds.
In that respect, I think this episode actually did a pretty good job with them (Rena's expressions were very nice throughout it all :heh: ), despite some memorable lines and scenes skipped through:
For example, each of the club members saying "I forgive you" to Rena for her actions, and at the same time, asking for Rena's forgiveness for not being enough of a comrade for her to trust.
Also, the scene of Rena crying could've lasted a little longer than 5 seconds (it was the ONLY CG in the entire game, after all. :heh: It deserved some more weight).
Other than that, a satisfactory episode. Too bad it ended with me bursting out in laughters at Kura-chan's "Hmph! *cool guy smirk*" :heh:
Now, next week's episode is actually going to be quite important, if done right, it should shock and amaze people. Done wrong, and it'll be wtf denpa-talk hell for non-gamers.
I'm just going to play "Sheep counts" over the anime's bgm when it begins. :heh:
Did they go over Rena's past? If not, I'll have to ask LostBlue to add that to the TIPS...
There was a very short flashback involving Rena's mom becoming pregnant.
Did they go over Rena's past? If not, I'll have to ask LostBlue to add that to the TIPS...
Nothing besides what was already shown last week.
Rena's weapon was upgraded:heh:
Now Rena also has that awesome bonebreaker/saw/axe thing Rena is just awesome that way after all:love::love::love:
Poor Rena getting strangled like that.......unforgiveable....kana??!!?!:eyespin: :eyespin: :eyespin: :eyespin: :eyespin:
Go Rena girl!!!! GO Whack them all!!!!:frustrated:
This episode just proves it, you just can't be safe even at your own little secret base at a dump site with lots of cute things without having your trusty cleaver ready to draw at any time:mad:
Speaking of secret bases, Rena is more boyish than I thought:heh: having a secret base like that..... ... .. *Khyaaaaaa* Rena is too cute after all:love::love::love::love:
(anything about Rena is cute:heh: )
*goes to vote for Rena in character poll*
chrno_the_sinner
2006-09-05, 22:43
Well, even with barely understanding what was happening, it's pretty easy to see why this chapter jolted Kei-chan to the top of the character popularity polls in Japan. The kid can talk.
Also, this was probably the goriest episode of Higurashi yet. Especially
Teppei's head essentially being spilt almost in half. Rina's teeth and eye were gory too. Not to mention the cutting of the body parts into small chunks.
Looks like Oishi is going to be the "Baddie" of this arc, but only because he's on the side of "justice" instead of the side of "friendship". Of course, that will probably change in an episode or two.
USCPharmacist
2006-09-06, 01:50
All I can say is, do not trust a kid asking you to some places, like going to the police station or the dumpster, cuz you get "TRANSFER".....
Eleutheria
2006-09-06, 10:17
There was a very short flashback involving Rena's mom becoming pregnant.
So that was what that was! I thought what Rina said was みんしん, but it's really 妊娠（にんしん）
PS.
READ THE TIPS FOR THIS EPISODE!
Especially the one called "My Favorite Wine (Ep. 23)". Holy crap. Funny, too.
READ THE TIPS FOR THIS EPISODE!
Especially the one called "My Favorite Wine (Ep. 23)". Holy crap. Funny, too.Wow, yeah...that tip answers a whole lot in one fell swoop. So, it seems that a world reset--of unknown trigger--occurs with (only?) Rika retaining her memory. Also, it seems that there are common permutations and outcomes, with 'happy' ones being quite rare (all sixes). I bet another person who retained their memory could make a potent antagonist, with both trying to achieve their 'best world.' I wonder what triggers or prevents the reset though....
Rika getting drunk to while the time away? If I had to live a dozen years of my life over and over, I'd probably get pretty bored too! Still, the knowledge and talent I could acquire would be undoubtedly impressive....
So, Rika's talking to Oyashiro-sama is she (I believe Rika said she could talk to Oyashiro-sama)? It sounds like Oyashiro's a bit of a cry-baby...that's hilarious.
When I think about it, Rika's supposed to be Oyashiro, so I assume that this 'Spirit-Oyashiro' is a version from an earlier generation. Maybe 'Spirit Oyashiro' also faced multiple world resets, but somehow failed her 'reset-quest' and was trapped in spirit form. Or the previous Oyashiro did something which now Rika has to deal with in the form of world-resets, hence Rika's blaming the Oyashiro. Hmmm.
Also, S.Oyashiro can leave Rika's side...but what would S.Oyashiro do? Probably just wander around I suppose; maybe hang out with Rika's friends. I assume it's intangible, invisible, inaudible, and trapped in the Hinamizawa locale, so it couldn't do much other than that....
Can Rena sense it? She seems so Oyashiro-obsessed that maybe Rena has some awareness of it. But Rena was outside of Hinamizawa, so Oyashiro would have to be able to leave the locale (weird) if Oyashiro stalked her when Rena was going nuts and breaking school windows.
Does Spirit Oyashiro make people go nuts via her presence, or does she sense people who go nuts and follow them around because being psycho allows them to sense her? The former doesn't explain Rena going nuts, and the latter doesn't explain why being loony gives people ESP. Maybe going nuts has something to do with 'demon blood' (ie. Hinamizawa ancestors). Argh, answers = more questions. I assume 'hearing footsteps' and 'being watched over' refers to Spirit-Oyashiro....
Oh! At first I didn't know why Spirit-Oyashiro would be a long way away from Hinamizawa following Rena while she goes nuts, but maybe it's because Spirit-Oyashiro knew Rena from a previous reset and went to see her. Maybe S.Oyashiro likes Rena because Rena can sense her...hm. Argh, so many possibilities!
Anyway, Spirit Oyashiro sounds awesome.
Wanderer
2006-09-06, 21:20
It seems the theme of these two arcs, Onikakushi-hen and Tsumihoroboshi-hen, is trust. In Onikakushi-hen, the trust fell apart and K1 went crazy, but in Tsumihoroboshi-hen it seems that everyone's friendship was stronger. So, was it just luck that led everyone to find out about Rena's crime? I am quite interested in how things are going to go wrong at this point.
So, lets say that a similar event happened in Onikakushi-hen... with Rena killing Rina and Teppei.
However, in Onikakushi-hen we didn't "roll a six" and K1 never found out about it. Even worse, Rena hid it from him. Mion, however, seems like she may have found out. Such a scenario would explain a lot of Rena's and Mion's behavior throughout the arc... In particular it explains why they would be upset at him talking with Ooishi considering that they were involved in something that would get them in trouble.
There is also that comment Rena made at the end of Watanagashi-hen/ Meakashi-hen about going with "Mion" to surrender to the police. Perhaps those two did the same thing in those arcs as well. Even more interesting is the idea that K1 was involved too... we just didn't see it.
And yeah, that "Favorite Wine" TIP is huge.
I didn't expect Rena's murderous activity to be so swift but I am not going to complain.
However, in Onikakushi-hen we didn't "roll a six" and K1 never found out about it. Even worse, Rena hid it from him. Mion, however, seems like she may have found out. Such a scenario would explain a lot of Rena's and Mion's behavior throughout the arc... In particular it explains why they would be upset at him talking with Ooishi considering that they were involved in something that would get them in trouble.
Interesting idea but wouldn't Ooishi mention Teppei and Rina's dissapearance to K1? He seems to suspect Rena already.
Anyway, with Keiichi being the worst liar in the world I don't see the group keeping the secret for long in this arc.
This wine tip is mindblowingly confusing. ;) Oh, well, I guess my theory that the "scenarios" or parallel universes in different arcs are connected only as a means for the viewers to solve the mystery is pretty much dead now.
It seems the theme of these two arcs, Onikakushi-hen and Tsumihoroboshi-hen, is trust. In Onikakushi-hen, the trust fell apart and K1 went crazy, but in Tsumihoroboshi-hen it seems that everyone's friendship was stronger. So, was it just luck that led everyone to find out about Rena's crime? I am quite interested in how things are going to go wrong at this point.
So, lets say that a similar event happened in Onikakushi-hen... with Rena killing Rina and Teppei.
However, in Onikakushi-hen we didn't "roll a six" and K1 never found out about it. Even worse, Rena hid it from him. Mion, however, seems like she may have found out. Such a scenario would explain a lot of Rena's and Mion's behavior throughout the arc... In particular it explains why they would be upset at him talking with Ooishi considering that they were involved in something that would get them in trouble.
It's not directly related to your Rena theory, but here's a hint: try reading this TIP from Tatarigoroshi-hen (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=584287&postcount=53) again.
2. Recognizing triggers means everything. And know that nothing is absolute.
3. What happened? What didn't happen? What happened instead? Why?
Eleutheria
2006-09-07, 00:46
So, it seems that a world reset--of unknown trigger--occurs with (only?) Rika retaining her memory. Also, it seems that there are common permutations and outcomes, with 'happy' ones being quite rare (all sixes). I bet another person who retained their memory could make a potent antagonist, with both trying to achieve their 'best world.' I wonder what triggers or prevents the reset though....
Rika getting drunk to while the time away? If I had to live a dozen years of my life over and over, I'd probably get pretty bored too! Still, the knowledge and talent I could acquire would be undoubtedly impressive....
So, Rika's talking to Oyashiro-sama is she (I believe Rika said she could talk to Oyashiro-sama)? It sounds like Oyashiro's a bit of a cry-baby...that's hilarious.
When I think about it, Rika's supposed to be Oyashiro, so I assume that this 'Spirit-Oyashiro' is a version from an earlier generation. Maybe 'Spirit Oyashiro' also faced multiple world resets, but somehow failed her 'reset-quest' and was trapped in spirit form. Or the previous Oyashiro did something which now Rika has to deal with in the form of world-resets, hence Rika's blaming the Oyashiro. Hmmm.
Also, S.Oyashiro can leave Rika's side...but what would S.Oyashiro do? Probably just wander around I suppose; maybe hang out with Rika's friends. I assume it's intangible, invisible, inaudible, and trapped in the Hinamizawa locale, so it couldn't do much other than that....
Can Rena sense it? She seems so Oyashiro-obsessed that maybe Rena has some awareness of it. But Rena was outside of Hinamizawa, so Oyashiro would have to be able to leave the locale (weird) if Oyashiro stalked her when Rena was going nuts and breaking school windows.
Does Spirit Oyashiro make people go nuts via her presence, or does she sense people who go nuts and follow them around because being psycho allows them to sense her? The former doesn't explain Rena going nuts, and the latter doesn't explain why being loony gives people ESP. Maybe going nuts has something to do with 'demon blood' (ie. Hinamizawa ancestors). Argh, answers = more questions. I assume 'hearing footsteps' and 'being watched over' refers to Spirit-Oyashiro....
Oh! At first I didn't know why Spirit-Oyashiro would be a long way away from Hinamizawa following Rena while she goes nuts, but maybe it's because Spirit-Oyashiro knew Rena from a previous reset and went to see her. Maybe S.Oyashiro likes Rena because Rena can sense her...hm. Argh, so many possibilities!
Anyway, Spirit Oyashiro sounds awesome.
I got the impression that it was Satoko who was chastizing Rika. After all they both talk about their impending doom.
Sushi, you are spoiling us with delicious tips.
I, I think I'm starting to get this now... (crosses fingers)
Wanderer
2006-09-07, 03:05
It's not directly related to your Rena theory, but here's a hint: try reading this TIP from Tatarigoroshi-hen (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=584287&postcount=53) again.
Yeah, I had figured that what happened to Rina in Tatarigoroshi-hen was different... and it was probably a (the?) critical difference that lead things onto a different path. Obviously, since in Tatarigoroshi-hen Rina's death led Teppei to move back to Hinamizawa, which is a central event in the plot of that arc.
Because of the Watanagashi style torture, it definately seems that the prime suspects for Rina's murder in Tatarigoroshi-hen would be the Gosanke. It makes me wonder if Rena's encounter with Kasai and Shion has something to do with it. Of course, there's no guarantee that they even met at all in Tatarigoroshi-hen.
2. Recognizing triggers means everything. And know that nothing is absolute.
3. What happened? What didn't happen? What happened instead? Why?
Yeah again. I'm thinking along these lines, but of course just knowing what I am trying to find is only half the problem. I still have to find it. At this point just the what happenned? part is still not even fully clear. Thing is, all the arcs even start differently, so it is very hard to pinpoint where they diverge.
I got the impression that it was Satoko who was chastizing Rika. After all they both talk about their impending doom.
That's what I was thinking too at first, but read it again. It really makes more sense if it was Rika talking with Oyashiro-sama.
Another thing- the wine TIP also suggests that Rika did die a short time after Onikakushi-hen's conclusion... which would put Rika's death rate as 5 for 5.
Yeah, I had figured that what happened to Rina in Tatarigoroshi-hen was different... and it was probably a (the?) critical difference that lead things onto a different path. Obviously, since in Tatarigoroshi-hen Rina's death led Teppei to move back to Hinamizawa, which is a central event in the plot of that arc.Depending on the timeline...perhaps Rina didn't encounter Rena's father in Tatargoroshi, hence she had nothing to prevent her from making a shot at money by crossing the Sonozaki family. If she meets Rena's father, then she may feel more settled monetary-wise; hence, no getting Watanagashi'd for trying to embezzle Sonozaki's funds. That's the only 'trigger' that I can come up with given the present information.
Unless there are other variables, that would suggest that the Rena-Rina-Teppei events occur in all non-Tatargoroshi arcs. Unfortunately, I can't rule out other small, unknown changes that disrupt the standard permutations for arcs.
Seems that Rena moved to Shishibone after Meakashi, and Teppei is still alive, so events are slightly different. But Rina was looking at property in Shishibone in one of the arcs...another possible permutation in their relations.
Eleutheria
2006-09-07, 10:10
That's what I was thinking too at first, but read it again. It really makes more sense if it was Rika talking with Oyashiro-sama.
Another thing- the wine TIP also suggests that Rika did die a short time after Onikakushi-hen's conclusion... which would put Rika's death rate as 5 for 5.
You may be right, since the "other" tells Rika when her death date will be.
Sushi-Y: was this TIP one of those all-text no character portrait ones?
You may be right, since the "other" tells Rika when her death date will be.
Sushi-Y: was this TIP one of those all-text no character portrait ones?
Yes. The TIPS here had no character portraits. But by the dialogue, you can assume who they are.
That's what I was thinking too at first, but read it again. It really makes more sense if it was Rika talking with Oyashiro-sama.
You really think Oyashiro-sama is a "she"? What about the statue? And isn't Oyashiro-sama supposed to possess Rika in some way, rather than talk with her, look sad, make noises, etc? Maybe the one Rika is talking to is Onibaba?
You really think Oyashiro-sama is a "she"? What about the statue? And isn't Oyashiro-sama supposed to possess Rika in some way, rather than talk with her, look sad, make noises, etc? Maybe the one Rika is talking to is Onibaba?
21 episode, Rika said herself, that she is able to talk to Oyashiro-sama.
Wasn't Rika already dead in episode 21? Maybe you mean 20 when she said she can hear Oyashiro-sama's voice? And she might be able "talk" to him in her head or just hear his voice, which is common enough among people certain mental disorders. I just doubt Oyashiro-sama is the person she is talking to in that tip.
Wasn't Rika already dead in episode 21? Maybe you mean 20 when she said she can hear Oyashiro-sama's voice?
Sorry, my mistake, I meant 20 episode. :heh:
And she might be able "talk" to him in her head or just hear his voice, which is common enough among people certain mental disorders. I just doubt Oyashiro-sama is the person she is talking to in that tip.
But knowing the future isn’t a common thing among people with certain mental disorders and Rika knows future, most probably thanks to Oyashiro. During epilogue to Onikakushi she also said she is sure, that Oyashiro isn’t an evil being, so I’m sure she has contact with “him” and I think it is highly probable she is talking to him in this tip.
I didn't mean that Rika is crazy for sure but I suspects her talks with Oyashiro-sama are either in her thoughts or like a dialogue with himself. after all, we have heard her talk like Oyashiro-sama to Akasaka and to Shion after the injection (with the voice of Midori from Mai-HiME :)). If Oyashiro-sama can possess Rika, what's the point of appearing in some "real" form in that tip? Oyashiro-sama crying just doesn't seem right. Although he might be saddened by the loss of his avatar. AARGH, this tip is killing me!
P.S. You'd be amazed how many wannabe prophets are complete lunatics. :heh:
Oh how tragic this series does not get to Minagoroshi. It would answer ALL of your questions regarding that TIPS.
Fortunately, we won't spoil anything until the anime is finished. After that, we'll decide to let it all out (or not) in a separate thread. Perhaps a Q&A type of thing where me, LostBlue, and Sushi-Y will answer three questions IN THROUGH DETAIL (3 x 3 = 9 answers in total, and that's it.). Choose your questions wisely (i.e.: redundant questions like "was that Satoshi in the bag?" will be a waste because of someone failing to read the TIPS), cause three questions each, that's it and the thread will be locked. Weird questions like "just give me all the details" does not count. www
Yes. The TIPS here had no character portraits. But by the dialogue, you can assume who they are.
Not for "au-au-au~" though. ^^;
Oh how tragic this series does not get to Minagoroshi. It would answer ALL of your questions regarding that TIPS.
Despite that, people are doing quite well with their theories, don't you think?
Skipping around in Tsumihoroboshi-hen again, I realized the anime staff decided to omit all the small hints that were littered throughout this chapter that forshadowed the "reality" (for example, during the scene at the dump, Keiichi somehow "remembered" a tragic world where he killed two of his best friends because he didn't have trust for anyone, that's why he didn't want Rena to end up like him inside that "failed world").
I'm not complaining, since it's pointless to go that far if they're not doing Minagoroshi-hen anyway.
"Omitting" small references is one thing, I do hope they don't actually "avoid" these references though, since many of the latter significant scenes are dependent on them.
Fortunately, we won't spoil anything until the anime is finished. After that, we'll decide to let it all out (or not) in a separate thread. Perhaps a Q&A type of thing where me, LostBlue, and Sushi-Y will answer three questions IN THROUGH DETAIL (3 x 3 = 9 answers in total, and that's it.). Choose your questions wisely (i.e.: redundant questions like "was that Satoshi in the bag?" will be a waste because of someone failing to read the TIPS), cause three questions each, that's it and the thread will be locked.
Well, if people want to find out the what everything is all about after the anime is over, they can also visit the spoiler game discussion thread and spoil themselves silly. ^^;
Wanderer
2006-09-07, 16:03
I think an important question here is: Who is Frederica Bernkastel?
I suggest reading the Message from Frederica Bernkastel (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=619582&postcount=11) in the poems section.
I'm not sure who has noticed yet or not how close the name "Frederica" sounds to "Furude Rika". However Frederica herself said that she is neither Rika nor Oyashiro-sama.
What I think may be liikely is that Rika does have two identities, neither of which are Oyashiro-sama. One is our cute and innocent "Ni-pah" Rika and the other is Frederica Bernkastel. Frederica would be the mature/serious/cynical one with memories of other arcs, and all the TIPS that seem to be from Rika's point of view would actually be from Frederica's point of view. Oyashiro-sama could then be an entirely different presence that is trying to work with Frederica towards a happy outcome.
Takano did everything.
Tomikake watched.
If Oyashiro-sama can possess Rika, what's the point of appearing in some "real" form in that tip?
I don't think Rika is exactly who she appears to be. I think her moe and her serious side are two sides of the same medal.
Oyashiro-sama crying just doesn't seem right. Although he might be saddened by the loss of his avatar. AARGH, this tip is killing me!
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=619582&postcount=11
The Oyashiro-sama is the Oyashiro-sama. You want me to introduce it to you? It's rather shy.
It gets frightened easily so don't scare it, okay? However, it seems that you are the one that's scared.
Giggle giggle giggle...
__________________
:D
Oh how tragic this series does not get to Minagoroshi.
But there is still hope for OAV?
I have to say, with lesser shows getting shorter (or longer) second seasons, Higurashi would have to be close to top of the list in getting its last two major arcs animated in a short tv followup or oav. At least, from a deserving pov.
It'd be nice if someone made a list of everything important left out in the anime for each chapter.
I just signed up here because after having played/read the sound novel #6, ep22/23 so far have angered me beyond belief and made me hate Studio DEEN and their awful story decisions even more than I had before from other shows.
I have never seen an adaptation of anything in my entire life that was so disgraceful to the original source material and that was so painful to watch. >_<
I can't believe they are getting away with this bastardization of the original sound novel and I wonder how the doujin creators feel about this. If I were them I'd probably want to publically seperate myself from the anime, much like what happened with the film version of The League of Extrodinary Gentlemen.
If they realized they couldn't fit the story in the amount of eps they had, they should have just made their own ending up or given more time to the other arcs while doing #6 in a seperate OAV or series. At this point there's no way to fix it and that's just extremely disappointing.
In the novel, the later events in ep23 were built up so well in terms of both plot and understanding of the characters and why they would act the way that they did, that the major scene in the ep brought me to tears when I read it in the novel and was one of those scenes that will leave a strong impression for years. Yet in the anime it was a joke and everything in 22/23 had skipped around so much there was zero emotion and it was just pointless.
Oh and the art in the episode was beyond awful. Seriously some of the worst faces I have seen in anime. Guess they felt like the script wasn't a big enough insult to the fans so they had to go further.
I hate Studio DEEN :(
It'd be nice if someone made a list of everything important left out in the anime for each chapter.
It'd make a long list. ^^; But the really important stuffs that the anime skipped out on are usually translated and placed in the TIP thread, so it's not all lost.
I just signed up here because after having played/read the sound novel #6, ep22/23 so far have angered me beyond belief and made me hate Studio DEEN and their awful story decisions even more than I had before from other shows.
You sound like me back when the anime first started. :heh:
For one, I don't think Ryukishi07-san would complain: it's a rare honor for a doujin game to be animated in the first place, I don't think he's going to be picky about it.
For original fans like us, it's certainly disappointing when we see memorable scenes/events in an anime adaptation rushed or skipped, but it's really an unavoidable thing. Deen chose to focus on the "suspense/horror" aspect of the novel scenarios, and sacrificed everything else. Perhaps it would've been better if they only did one or two scenarios and sacrifice no plots? Maybe they should've considered the importance of the game's memorable music tracks and used those instead? Maybe they should've just stuck to believable facial expressions instead of making our characters do all those annoying face warps?
The anime certainly don't do the game justice, but think about it this way: if it weren't for the anime, most people here probably wouldn't even know about the existence of this series. It's ok to complain about how an episode messed up on this and that (I do it all the time), but it's nothing to hate the animation studio for (Deen's F/sn anime wasn't too bad, for example).
I<3killerloli's
2006-09-12, 16:48
My only complaint is that Ep23 is still not out subbed! Grr...makes me wish I could fluently speak Japanese.
Oh well. But with only 2 (?) more episodes left, do you think the grand finale will be anything special?
It sure is painful waiting a week for the sub. By the time we get it, 24's RAW will be out.
LostBlue
2006-09-12, 17:38
I just signed up here because after having played/read the sound novel #6, ep22/23 so far have angered me beyond belief
That's quite harsh. *covers Sushi-Y's eyes* Tatagoroshi handling was much more of a disgrace :heh: :p
But with all the stuff on fast-forward in this arc and the limited 5 EP bench-mark someone thought was enough for the "final" arc to the anime (that's in itself was quite stupid for one of the longest chapters), DEEN isn't doing that bad. Despite cutting 90% Kei's and Rena's speech and they did a fairly good job covering the points. So far this arc seems like reviewing the chapter on bullet points.
What angers me about the anime is the animation. There's no excuse for that beyond budget. DEEN is capable of produce "cleaner" sakugas but this anime on the whole... then they give people supernatural strength & powers & elastic faces that distract from the story. *sigh* I mean just sub-contracting the animation to [whatever horrid company did this EP] isn't what gets me. But when the "added" things distract from the series that's really disappointing. But I do love DEEN for picking it up. I never heard of the series until then. Now to fax this entire forum to Kyo-Ani's desk :heh: 誰か、英語読める人いますか？いいえ じゃ、捨ててきなさい はぁぃ～
It'd be nice if someone made a list of everything important left out in the anime for each chapter.
Yea, waaaaaay to much to list. The TIPs is a good place to start. Then probably reading the last corresponding EP thread to each particular arc is probably another good place to see what was skipped. Then there's more. Like several of the Club Activities were foreshadows to what will happen later (maybe in that arc, maybe in a later arc). I can safely say at least one of the club game was a clue to the mystery. Most of those activities were cut. Understandable b/c of what DEEN wanted to focus on.
It sure is painful waiting a week for the sub. By the time we get it, 24's RAW will be out.
Patience. If anyone has a problem with WinD subs EP14+ feel free to msg away at me. The forum isn't really the place to discuss that. I don't watch the EPs myself until Sunday due to time constraints. That's the main reason why the WinD subs have been "late".
But with only 2 (?) more episodes left, do you think the grand finale will be anything special?
:D
What angers me about the anime is the animation. There's no excuse for that beyond budget. DEEN is capable of produce "cleaner" sakugas but this anime on the whole... then they give people supernatural strength & powers & elastic faces that distract from the story. *sigh* I mean just sub-contracting the animation to [whatever horrid company did this EP] isn't what gets me. But when the "added" things distract from the series that's really disappointing. But I do love DEEN for picking it up. I never heard of the series until then. Now to fax this entire forum to Kyo-Ani's desk :heh: 誰か、英語読める人いますか？いいえ じゃ、捨ててきなさい はぁぃ～
I think the reason for the terrible animation is because they just don't have time to clean it up. I mean, look at episode 21. It had pretty nice animation, but that was probably because half the episode was reused footage, so all they had to do was animate half an episode, thus they could take longer with it.
Also, I noticed the first 2 DVDs have been released in Japan. Do they fix up any of the animation at all?
BakaOnna
2006-09-13, 16:34
You know, when I read the Favorite Wine TIPS a second time, I noticed the person speaking said something about a burnt corpse. Takano? Then it mentions that young children shouldn't drink... And speaking of which, I've noticed that Tomitake and Takano are the two people that die every arc, at least, they're believed to be dead. Well, actually, Tomitake usually dies, and Takano gets burned/disappears. Rika and Takano are working together? She is suspicious. :twitch: But that doesn't seem right...
Anyway, about the episode itself. I gave it a 9. I've realized the solution in this series with any family problems you have: Kill people that are causing it. Yep, murder is always your best solution. :heh:
Now that I understand K1's speech better I see why his popularity has grown. In fact, he's had a few great character moments (Protecting Shion from bikers, How he handled Mion/Shion when he was on the cross, stopping Teppei from abusing Satoko.)
Oh poor Rena. I can see Oishi doing to her the same what he did to Keiichi in Onikakushi. I just hope Rena will be less pacient like Mion (or was Shion who "had the chance" to kill him?) and Keiichi. Go for it, Rena-chan.
Now that I understand K1's speech better I see why his popularity has grown. In fact, he's had a few great character moments (Protecting Shion from bikers, How he handled Mion/Shion when he was on the cross, stopping Teppei from abusing Satoko.)
He also looked pretty cool in the Watergun fight, lol.
I'm really surprised at how much gore they're allowed to show. Even if a lot of it is sorta censored or they show it really fast, I know that none of the violence scenes would even come close to airing in america.
Great episode by the way, I like how they kind-of made it so it was like Rena telling the gang what's happened up until the confession scene. I'm just surprised Satoko didn't say anything, seeing as how she had to live with Teppei for a few years (did she even know he was the other victim?)
But um, did Rena do some serious cleaning to the fridge? For bloody bodies they sure didn't leave many stains...
I'm really surprised at how much gore they're allowed to show. Even if a lot of it is sorta censored or they show it really fast, I know that none of the violence scenes would even come close to airing in america.
Great episode by the way, I like how they kind-of made it so it was like Rena telling the gang what's happened up until the confession scene. I'm just surprised Satoko didn't say anything, seeing as how she had to live with Teppei for a few years (did she even know he was the other victim?)
But um, did Rena do some serious cleaning to the fridge? For bloody bodies they sure didn't leave many stains...
I don't know about that. I think Adult Swim is capable of showing that level of violence.
I don't know about that. I think Adult Swim is capable of showing that level of violence.
Adult Swim has shown Fullmetal Alchemist - while some of the scenes in Higurashi are significantly creepier than FMA. I don't find them to be much more violent. Adult Swim also showed Paranoia Agent (up there on the creepy scale) and I believe the only edits they had to make had to do with "adult situations" (i.e. sex talk, implied, etc).
theacefrehley
2006-09-13, 22:49
Man...
Something tells me that when the things start to go wrong here the blood bath will be even gorier than with Teppei and Rina... :(:(
hehe
That's a good point; Satoko's reaction...
Did she know that Teppei was killed ?
Or she doesn't care for him at all (I wouldn't anyway haha)
Adult Swim has shown Fullmetal Alchemist - while some of the scenes in Higurashi are significantly creepier than FMA. I don't find them to be much more violent. Adult Swim also showed Paranoia Agent (up there on the creepy scale) and I believe the only edits they had to make had to do with "adult situations" (i.e. sex talk, implied, etc).
Last Saturday on Trinity Blood (TVMA) They showed someone getting sliced in half, having their heart pulled out then squeezed until it exploded. If they can show that, they can show anything Higurashi has.
Bloodseeker
2006-09-14, 03:42
I'm really surprised at how much gore they're allowed to show. Even if a lot of it is sorta censored or they show it really fast, I know that none of the violence scenes would even come close to airing in america.
CSI can get pretty graphic... much more graphic than Higurashi ever gets.
Anyways, great episode. Pissed off Rena was awesome, as always. I just wish that she was like that more often.
Normal/Detective ark/Death by Curse ark Rena FTF
Pissed off Rena FTMFW
Edit: Also, am I the only one that LOLed hard when Rena got her ass handed to her? As much as I like pissed Rena, that was funny.
Fortunately, we won't spoil anything until the anime is finished. After that, we'll decide to let it all out (or not) in a separate thread. Perhaps a Q&A type of thing where me, LostBlue, and Sushi-Y will answer three questions IN THROUGH DETAIL (3 x 3 = 9 answers in total, and that's it.).
I think I will be extremely sad if you see through that plan, anyone who has the mind in getting the spoilers without the fluff can easily google them anytime and keep it to themselves. However I plan to provide the fluff, in chronological order too.
hailstorm
2006-09-14, 08:40
I seriously got hard when Rena
bludgeoned that bitch Rina to death. Rina had it coming. No sympathies. It was also the anticipated climax from the previous episode's tension buildup, therefore that makes it all more satisfying.
And on top of that:
that scene of Teppei getting his skull cleaved into two... priceless. Had to rewind a few times to watch again and again. Again, no sympathy for that thug Teppei.
INSTANT 10. No questions whatsoever.
Oh how this episode makes me empathize with Rena all the more. I cheer them on.
All hail Rena! :D
What a grat episode. Rena got a bunch of really good friends, this part of the Episode was so great.
Also Rina and Satokos Uncle got what they deserved. The 2 Characters I hate the most dies. Good job Rena :D 10/10
Deathkillz
2006-09-14, 13:12
holy gore :D yes rina started it so i had no sympathy for her death watsoever :D but it would have been better to see rena's machete killing rina instead of that metal stick ^^
but seeing it go through Teppei's head gave me a big fat grin XD
and again rena slicing through the body...gave me the shivers and the bone crushing sound goes well with it...
gg rena :)
I knew there was a reason why I voted Rena as my favourite character. :D
Cardiac Glycoside
2006-09-14, 15:43
It seems that everybody is better at murdering people than K1.
As nice as it may seem on the surface, I can't really laud what K1 did for Rena. If they had abandoned her, she would be the only one to take the fall; but now, K1 has put everyone in danger because they are now accomplices to murder (or manslaughter, whatever).
Bloodseeker
2006-09-14, 16:58
holy gore :D yes rina started it so i had no sympathy for her death watsoever :D but it would have been better to see rena's machete killing rina instead of that metal stick ^^
But if she had killed her with the billhook, you wouldn't have gotten to see Rina's face all collapsed and disfigured from the beating! Death by pipe is cooler than death by blade, IMO. Bashing someone's head in with a heavy blunt object is much more brutal than a stab or clean cut.
I await the DVD to see the full split uncensored! :D
But seriously, as I was watching this, in the back of my mind, I wondered, when will all this break down? Then out pops Ooishi. :D
And I'm starting to understand how everything is connected. I need to draw up a timeline of the events to see how everything turns out. Then to compare it with the game.
Serenity85
2006-09-14, 18:18
After watching the ep. and reading the tips for it, in particular "My favorite Wine" it got me thinking back to some pics i say in the wallpaper thread.
I beleive that there is infact some entity that rika, maybe rena can see/hear, whether its Oyashiro-sama or not (I lean to yes, would make sense unless Oyashiro-sama is suppose to be a he not a she)
*note all pics are from the wall gallery*
http://img321.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0085133rh.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20060711255759xe.jpg
http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=higurasirenamili9ur.jpg
In all these pics there is ghostly figure which resembles Rika almost to a "T" When I first saw these pics I was like, they must be fan made not real or important, but now I do believe 100% that she is real and that she is tied to the whole mystery somehow. Hmm, if not Oyashiro-sama, maybe the ghost of the first Rika that died who now travels between time periods in hopes of preventing her death maybe... hmmm
P.S. I really love this show, hopes for the manga/game to be translated *fingers crossed*
Kisuke06
2006-09-14, 18:29
Episode 23 was very good. Those 2 deserved to die, however I think that Rena took a very... extreme attitude. You need to be careful with cute girls. /o/
Pakxenon
2006-09-14, 21:11
The only problem with this episode was the overall mood, and how the ending was trying to get Rena to relax. I was hoping the bloodshed would last throughout the episode instead of just the first half. :(
Good episode! Would have been a 10 but it's a 9.
The episodes just get increasingly awesome. And deeper, too, judging by the discussion I'm reading in this thread that's just way over me unless I were to also click on the tips. The tip that somebody quoted was really interesting, though.
I hope that once this series is over, somebody can tie it all together (although I know not every question is answered) for those of us who are slow-witted.
Darklightz
2006-09-14, 22:46
Haha,I loved this episode.Rena is one loli you do not want to mess with!Contrary to other characters she doesn't waste time in schemes and such,but goes directly for the kill!
And I just loved when Rena led Rina through the dump and told her it's her "secret hiding place,where nobody goes...nor can anyone hear anything".That's as good a death sentence as it gets ^_^
You know you got good friends when they help you dispose of the bodies XD
FatPianoBoy
2006-09-15, 00:42
You know you got good friends when they help you dispose of the bodies XD
Quoted because it bears repeating ;)
Much 'wow' in this episode. And a nice shot in the eye to the people who kept saying that Rena's giant knife was just fanservice :P
It's strange, though: in the "spoiler scene" at the beginning of Tatarigoroshi-hen, Rina got the Watanagashi Deluxe Package and was tossed into a river. Here, she's beaten and dismembered and buried in a cave. FPB smells mindscrew :uhoh:
And every time I see Ooishi I get this overwhelming 'oh crap' feeling - especially this time. It's like he always knows everything before he even gets started. So cheap.
DingoEnderZOE2
2006-09-15, 15:10
Great episode. It was satisfying to see Rena extract "justice"(?) on the ones who would have ruined her fathers life if she hadn't done something. Call me strange or disturbed but I especially liked the part where Rina got the look of fear in her eye when she noticed the lead pipe in Renas hand, and realized what she was about to do with it so she makes a desperate but hopeless cry for mercy only to have it thrown out the window, and her face crushed in and her teeth knocked out.
I always found it more satisfying in movies,novels,games, and comic books where the victim knows whats coming to them, theres no negotiating around it, yet they still try to come out with the "No please wait!". :D
It's no fun when the victim get taken out by surprise like in Teppeis case.
I was also impressed by how deep the friendship Keichi and the others had for Rena that they were so willing to be forgiving AND to help her dispose of the bodys no less. That was truly some good bonding right there.
Sinestra
2006-09-15, 17:33
i knew Rena was going to get nasty on them but damn. Keiichi and everyone came to her aid because they are friends. But how far does friendship go? covering up a murder and helping your friend get away with it thats what i call a tight relationship.
Was that chick that Rena beat to hamburger really pregnant or was she just using that as an excuse?
Supergrunch
2006-09-15, 17:56
Was that chick that Rena beat to hamburger really pregnant or was she just using that as an excuse?
It seemed to me like she'd made it up to fool Rena's dad.
FatPianoBoy
2006-09-15, 23:00
But how far does friendship go? covering up a murder and helping your friend get away with it thats what i call a tight relationship.
I find it interesting that K1 is all "we're friends, so we need to tell each other stuff!" here, but in Tatarigoroshi-hen he hid what he did even though all his friends knew what happened. -1 for hipocrisy.
I find it interesting that K1 is all "we're friends, so we need to tell each other stuff!" here, but in Tatarigoroshi-hen he hid what he did even though all his friends knew what happened. -1 for hipocrisy.
No, he was talking about if Rena had a problem this bad, she shouldn't be hiding it from the gang, since this is something they could help with. I really don't think he meant "well if any of you guys have recently murdered anyone just tell us we'll understand!"
FatPianoBoy
2006-09-16, 10:41
I know that's what he meant. K1 obviously had some major problems in Onikakushi-hen and Tatarigoroshi-hen (Onikakushi-hen doesn't really count, because the only people he would have told seemed to be trying to kill him), but he never told anyone.
Sinestra
2006-09-16, 11:50
I find it interesting that K1 is all "we're friends, so we need to tell each other stuff!" here, but in Tatarigoroshi-hen he hid what he did even though all his friends knew what happened. -1 for hipocrisy.
I agree practice what you preach. If you gun hoe for friends dont hide then K! should live up to the bullshit he putting out
Im wondering....the response Keiichi and gang showed.....does it show that the bonding of the people of Hinamizawa
Kisuke06
2006-09-16, 12:49
Im wondering....the response Keiichi and gang showed.....does it show that the bonding of the people of Hinamizawa
True. But I can't help thinking that Rena will eventually kill then all, thinking that someone might say something. But who knows what will happen? :heh:
Damn I jumped at around 12:20 when Rena is chopping limbs off the corpse and Keiichi says "Hey hey, you're missing quite some pieces there" before the scene shifts to them playing mahjong.
White Manju Bun
2006-09-16, 18:41
Whoa I love ebil Rena! For a sec I thought she was gonna chop up everyone else too when she was saying that no one would have done anything.
SweetSpring
2006-09-16, 22:20
I don't know about that. I think Adult Swim is capable of showing that level of violence.
thank goodness my sis was guiding me for that whole show...:):D :heh:
Eric the Grey
2006-09-17, 18:44
Such a scenario would explain a lot of Rena's and Mion's behavior throughout the arc... In particular it explains why they would be upset at him talking with Ooishi considering that they were involved in something that would get them in trouble.
Heh, I was so pissed off when I finished watching this EP, I was ready to chuck it all, even this close to the end, and then you've got to go and say that. :frustrated:
I mean, suddenly adding two more bodies to the whole, that haven't been there all this tiem just threw me for a loop, but now... *sigh*
:cool: Eric the Grey
Might I remind people that while Tsumihoroboshi is the relevant answer to Onikakushi, there IS NO DIRECT connection with Onikakushi. Tsumihoroboshi gives you the most logical explanation to Keiichi's state of mind in Onikakushi by showing Rena spiraling down a similar level of insanity with a totally different story.
Simply put:
While Watanagashi = Meakashi (technically it isn't, but it's close enough)
But Onikakushi ≠ Tsumihoroboshi
Hence, Rena did NOT kill Rina or Teppei in Onikakushi, nor did the friends there help her hide the body.
After watching the ep. and reading the tips for it, in particular "My favorite Wine" it got me thinking back to some pics i say in the wallpaper thread.
I beleive that there is infact some entity that rika, maybe rena can see/hear, whether its Oyashiro-sama or not (I lean to yes, would make sense unless Oyashiro-sama is suppose to be a he not a she)
*note all pics are from the wall gallery*
http://img321.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0085133rh.jpg
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20060711255759xe.jpg
http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=higurasirenamili9ur.jpg
In all these pics there is ghostly figure which resembles Rika almost to a "T" When I first saw these pics I was like, they must be fan made not real or important, but now I do believe 100% that she is real and that she is tied to the whole mystery somehow. Hmm, if not Oyashiro-sama, maybe the ghost of the first Rika that died who now travels between time periods in hopes of preventing her death maybe... hmmm
P.S. I really love this show, hopes for the manga/game to be translated *fingers crossed*
I belive thats Hanyuu, a character introduced in Matsuribayashi-hen.
chrno_the_sinner
2006-09-18, 09:28
I belive thats Hanyuu, a character introduced in Matsuribayashi-hen.
Minagoroshi-hen actually.
On a side note, ayyo of Makenai desuwayo has put up the page for his translation of Minagoroshi-hen. There's nothing there yet, just a picture and a song from the game.:
http://zettai.makenaidesuwayo.com
Wanderer
2006-09-18, 09:45
While Watanagashi = Meakashi (technically it isn't, but it's close enough)
But Onikakushi ≠ Tsumihoroboshi
Hence, Rena did NOT kill Rina or Teppei in Onikakushi, nor did the friends there help her hide the body.
Well, unless there was something shown to confirm this that I missed, this is a bit of a spoiler. I fully understand that Onikakushi ≠ Tsumihoroboshi like Watanagashi = Meakashi. However, I did not know to what degree this is true. I was not saying that Rena's murders happenned for certain, just that there was some circumstantial evidence that they did happen. I just thought it was a significant possibilty worth some attention.
Was that chick that Rena beat to hamburger really pregnant or was she just using that as an excuse?
Who said it was from Rena's dad?
And it seemed a little...off for Rena to decide to kill Teppi.
Rina was understandable, since Rena was fighting for her life.
But to commit cold-blooded murder, luring Teppi into the same area as Rina to kill him is a somewhat different story, even if said victim is attempting to shake down her dad.
And the go-between for the two is already dead.
So what really set off Rena?
FatPianoBoy
2006-09-18, 22:27
So what really set off Rena?
If you read the tips about Rena's childhood, she talks about how she regretted not doing anything about her mother's lover. She probably wanted to make sure that she did everything she could to solve the situation this time.
Who said it was from Rena's dad?
And it seemed a little...off for Rena to decide to kill Teppi.
Rina was understandable, since Rena was fighting for her life.
But to commit cold-blooded murder, luring Teppi into the same area as Rina to kill him is a somewhat different story, even if said victim is attempting to shake down her dad.
And the go-between for the two is already dead.
So what really set off Rena?
Rena knows that Teppei was plotting together with Rina to squeeze all the money out of her dad. Rena also saw him beating up her dad. I'd say that was enough to tip her over the edge.
SnowfairyX
2006-09-19, 02:38
Rena knows that Teppei was plotting together with Rina to squeeze all the money out of her dad. Rena also saw him beating up her dad. I'd say that was enough to tip her over the edge.
Holy crap! :heh: I must have watched that episode like 5 times and I actually didn't even realize until now that it was actually Rena's father that Teppei was beating up on. I thought he was just some random schmuck but since it was actually her father, I think it's obviously even more justified that she killed the bastard. My opinion of Rena and this episode has gone up even further now :D.
Hopeful Death
2006-09-23, 06:50
Skipping around in Tsumihoroboshi-hen again, I realized the anime staff decided to omit all the small hints that were littered throughout this chapter that forshadowed the "reality" (for example, during the scene at the dump, Keiichi somehow "remembered" a tragic world where he killed two of his best friends because he didn't have trust for anyone, that's why he didn't want Rena to end up like him inside that "failed world").
Is this by any chance related to the comment in episode 1 Keichi made about how Rena is "Checking up on the body she killed there?"
I mean, obviously he was just joking around. But it seems kind of O_o after seeing this here.
I liked this episode, because..
there was Rena VS Ritsuko. I really hated, Rina/Ritsuko.. I gave 9 for this episode.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.