View Full Version : Utawarerumono Episode 24 Discussion / Poll
Catgirls
2006-09-09, 14:05
Welcome to the discussion thread for Utawarerumono, Episode 24.
Since ADV Films have licensed Utawarerumono (to be known as the "Shadow Warrior Chronicles") AnimeSuki will no longer list torrents for it. In addition, the following posts are no longer allowed:
Asking where you can find Utawarerumono downloads.
Providing links to Utawarerumono downloads.
Discussing Utawarerumono fansub groups (past or present).
Asking for help downloading Utawarerumono.
Asking for playback help for Utawarerumono episodes.
These rules applies to fansubs (in English or any other language) and raws alike.
You still are allowed to discuss the anime, that has not changed, but please remember to limit the discussion to the story.
_________________________
If a Mod notices anyone breaking these rules then expect to be banned from the forums. It's unlikely a warning will be given and do not expect to be notified, you will just be banned. Please use the Report button http://forums.animesuki.com/images/buttons/report.gif if you notice any of the above rules being broken.
Spoiler Tag Usage
Using Spoiler Tags is easy. Using this...
Don't forget to use the spoiler title
....will get you this...
Don't forget to use the spoiler title
Catgirls
2006-09-09, 14:09
Before anyone asks, let me answer a few questions: =^.^=
» No, Episode 24 is not out yet. Episode 24 will air Tuesday 2:40AM (Japan Time).
» Yes, I started the thread early. Why? So that people could post their hopes & expectations for the upcoming episode.
» Yes, I know other Mods don’t start episode threads early. I like to start them early for discussion purposes.
» Please, do not vote in the poll UNTIL you have viewed the episode.
» Yes, I am available for birthday parties.
Xellos-_^
2006-09-09, 14:12
» Yes, I am available for birthday parties.
Is that with or wihtout diet beverages?
I want to see Kamyu vamp powers at work soon.
2:40am? That's an odd time to put a teen show on the air. Is that normal anime airing time in Japan? :o
Tuesday 2:40am JST would be the same as Monday 10:40am PST.
Something's going to bust Hein's Avu Kamu up, and that will probably be the end of him. If it does, then that'll be a major botch from the game's sequence of events. And of course, if something can ruin Hein's mech, something's going to be equally destructive for Kuuya's as well (uh oh...!).
Everything from the preview was all dark, because as I stated from my review of episode 23, this is where everything begins and ends for Utawarerumono. To put shortly, I'm anticipating everything from the last few seconds of the series' OP to be mentioned, revealed, and/or explained in this episode. Colossal entities, man in ice, the black-winged mystery girl with the halo, the cataclysmic explosion...everything.
what im looking forward to is hakuro's team vs kuuya
» Yes, I am available for birthday parties.
Hopefully you'll come along with the Uta' gang. :3
Well.. i just wanna see this episode now. ^^;
Well I am hoping the genjimaru does not betray them on the attack it look was been done in the preview.
Deathkillz
2006-09-09, 20:35
^ classic thing that could happen would be for genjimaru to betray our heros but then realise hes doing wrong and sacrafices himself to save one of the main charas...
Nice new sig and avatar, Deathkillz. O_O
A betrayal, revelation, then redemption. Sounds pretty classic, but Utawarerumono breaches classic fantasy in many ways. But hey, it could be just that straightfoward.
You could convince Kuuya that she's on the wrong team, but that's not nearly as fun as plot twists. = P
Well Genjimaru is an Evenkuruga and betrayal is not something they do often but the conversation he had with Dii make me wonder. Does Genjimaru believe that Dii spirit is the right and Hakuoro is on the wrong. Would Genjimaru go against the code of Evenkuruga.
2:40am? That's an odd time to put a teen show on the air. Is that normal anime airing time in Japan? :o
"Teen" show? Whatcha talkin' about Willis? <_<
Utawarerumono is just one of many otaku-oriented shows getting a late night showing.
Well Genjimaru is an Evenkuruga and betrayal is not something they do often but the conversation he had with Dii make me wonder. Does Genjimaru believe that Dii spirit is the right and Hakuoro is on the wrong. Would Genjimaru go against the code of Evenkuruga.
Touka demonstrated that. An Evenkuruga will do anything as long as he/she CONSIDERS it to be the right and just thing to do - and perception of right/justice can easily be manipulated as we saw with Touka. It doesnt matter who is really the good guy or the bad guy.
Screencaps of episode 24, that just aired about an hour ago.
Episode 24 (http://sakuratan.ddo.jp/uploader/source/date21911.jpg)
looks great. thnx aohige..
Xellos-_^
2006-09-11, 14:36
Screencaps of episode 24, that just aired about an hour ago.
Episode 24 (http://sakuratan.ddo.jp/uploader/source/date21911.jpg)
looks great.
Can't wait for the raw
why did Mutsumi flew off with Dii in the end?
So we finally see what is behind Kamyu?
So Mutsumi comes out. I expected rather a split personality, than a complete new Body :D
But Mustumi is cute, so i'm fine with this :love:
Renegade334
2006-09-11, 15:17
looks great.
Can't wait for the raw
why did Mutsumi flew off with Dii in the end?
Because she considers herself as his daughter, although Dii isn't her biological father. Let's say that the answer lies in the flashback arc...which should be coming up next week...hopefully...yeah, hopefully...wonder how they're gonna cram it in barely two eps...(most of which would be used for ACTION)...
BTW, wow at the Amaterasu beam. It destroyed Kunnekamun's capital like expected. Kuuya's truly a wreck thanks to that (as well as Genjimaru's gruesome death (which mirrors Niwe's/Yue's), too).
Other than that, since I haven't played the game, I don't know how botched this is. I'm not aware of the exact timeline - I just have a rough idea of what happens but I don't have a precise and down to the dot, list of all events. Although this episode seems promising action-wise, I hoped for more flashback arc-related material in it, leaving us with more time for the finale and the battle within. Although we were given some answers tonight (it's nighttime for me), there are still a lot of unanswered questions left, especially concerning Mutsumi. Let's hope they'll have enough room in ep25 to start explaining whatever happened. I'm not much for an all-talk, no-action ep26. What should happen should be the mother of all scenes since it's boss vs boss then something else (I wonder if they won't cut the last one, though...which would leave an open door for an alternate ending compared to the game).
Oh, and as a last note...when Dii got stabbed by Genjimaru...did you see the shadow/ghostly apparition forming behind him? Big clue as to what he also is...:D
Xellos-_^
2006-09-11, 15:49
Because she considers herself as his daughter, although Dii isn't her biological father. Let's say that the answer lies in the flashback arc...which should be coming up next week...hopefully...yeah, hopefully...wonder how they're gonna cram it in barely two eps...(most of which would be used for ACTION)...
BTW, wow at the Amaterasu beam. It destroyed Kunnekamun's capital like expected. Kuuya's truly a wreck thanks to that (as well as Genjimaru's gruesome death (which mirrors Niwe's/Yue's), too).
I thought Mutsumi consider Ice Man/Hakuoro her father?
Renegade334
2006-09-11, 15:59
I thought Mutsumi consider Ice Man/Hakuoro her father?
Errr...don't click on this if you don't wanna be spoiled BIG time. I must spoil a lot in order to answer this question.
Let's say...two halves of the same thing inhabit both Dii and Hakuoro.
...And Mutsumi was born (I mean, CREATED) from that thing.
Since Dii is the one most conscious about his other nature (or at least by then the only one able to give orders since Hakuoro is still in his beast form) Mutsumi chose to go by Dii's side...or more exactly the creature inside Dii's.
Alright, I didn't make much sense, did I?
Thing is, Dii and Hakuoro are inhabited by opposite halves (different personalities) of the fossil-beast, namely the great god Uitsuarunemitea, whom she considers to be her father...she doesn't think of herself as Hakuoro's daughter or even Dii's. Uitsuarunemitea's only.
Since Dii (he's inhabited by the negative part of Uitsuarunemitea's split soul) was the only one able to give orders (and he's fully conscious of who he truly is, unlike Hakuoro), Mutsumi obeyed her father - I mean, the soul shard controlling Dii.
Cardiac Glycoside
2006-09-11, 16:12
Hmm, looks very violent.
Holy Shit This Ep Rocked!! O_o
with the pace the anime is going, im sure they can end it good
Well, all the Kuuya-haters got their wish, sort of. :p
A fairly decent portrayal, but the fact that Urutoriy just plain forgot about Kamyu seems a bit fishy. In the game, Kamyu is turned first and Urutoriy uses teleportation to get everyone out of there before Mutsumi called down the Amaterasu beam, not to mention warning everyone in Kunnekamun to get the heck out of there.At least it manages to keep the general pace and atmosphere well, unlike the complaints I'm hearing about Tsukaima 11. Hehe.
Oh, and minor trivia: The word "Kunnekamun" was probably constructed from 'kunne', meaning black/night in Ainu, and 'kamun', which was probably some form of 'kamuy', meaning deity in Ainu.
mikemil828
2006-09-12, 01:24
A fairly decent portrayal, but the fact that Urutoriy just plain forgot about Kamyu seems a bit fishy. In the game, Kamyu is turned first and Urutoriy uses teleportation to get everyone out of there before Mutsumi called down the Amaterasu beam, not to mention warning everyone in Kunnekamun to get the heck out of there.
Could possibly be explained by the fact that Dii prevented Genji and Kuuya from being teleported out, and he probably stopped Kamyu from going out as well
Renegade334
2006-09-12, 01:42
One thing that should be interested to know is that Hakuoro is developing control of his beast form since he started talking before killing Hien and was was panting after doing so - hinting to the fact that Hakuoro is regaining what he has lost. The fact that the frequency of his transformation has increased can also explain why he can now have a certain degree of conrol on his true nature - especially since he is in a pretty stressful/angsty environment quite auspicious for his anger to seize him and trigger the metamorphosis.
As for Kamyuu's presence, knowing that Dii knew that Kamyuu contained Mutsumi's essence, it isn't surprising if Dii prevented her from departing with the rest of the group. After all, Dii was raising his hand when Urutorii cast her spell, so it's possible that he pilfered with Urutorii's magic to keep Kamyuu out of the teleportation field's influence.
...Something else to notice is that Onkamiyaryuu are capable of telepathy or something close seeing how Urutorii conversed with Hakuoro - and she wasn't moving her lips so it must logically be mind communication.
On the other side, people have been wondering why Mutsumi chose to go with Dii, who's clearly a bad guy -
The answer sorta lies in the last minutes of the episode - she wonders out loud why Hakuoro didn't choose her.
She refers to an incident in the past, which should be shown at least in the next episode, where Hakuoro/Iceman chose someone else over Mutsumi, effectively wounding her love for her father. In other words, she might still be resentful towards Iceman-Hakuoro, and she opts to follow someone who bears the essence of her true father but hasn't 'betrayed' her, meaning: Dii.
Now, let's make this clear (this is a minor spoiler since it's from the episode itself), Hakuoro and Dii both contain something that is Mutsumi's father - which means that she could have obeyed either of them. However, since Hakuoro 'betrayed' her in his past life, she chose to go with the 'vessel' that still contains her father's essence but didn't betray her - Dii. So that means that even if she fights Hakuoro, she's still obeying her father (or more exactly her father's other half), Dii.
And for those who'd be asking, Kuuya is now officially out of the picture. She's alive but she's completely catatonic - and the way she was making inarticulate sounds foreshadows her future state of mind. The intense trauma at seeing Genjimaru's shredded body has crippled her mind. Completely. Think of Kamille Bidan's pyschotic state at the end of Zeta Gundam, and you'll know what I mean. But at a slightly worse degree.
Could possibly be explained by the fact that Dii prevented Genji and Kuuya from being teleported out, and he probably stopped Kamyu from going out as well
The one thing that didn't really make sense was that you don't see Kamyu after the anti-teleport bubble disappears. Wouldn't you think that Dii would be able to keep Kamyu in place?
Episode 24 Synopsis/Screencaps (http://www.takattack.net/exile/)
Comments later. It's 4am, damn!
10/10 after watching the RaW Version :D
This Episode was great. Dii is awesome ^^
What he did too Genjimaru was natsy :D Sure he is no Character from Elfen Lied? :heh: I was looking for vectors in this Szene.
So even Hakuoros Childs are that Powerful :twitch:
And what happens too kamyu? Will she ever come back?
Deathkillz
2006-09-12, 13:30
...dii makes zombies? O.o
dii turned kamyu into her true form??
dii has the demon inside him?? (as seen behind him before he kills genjimaru)
who the heck is Mutsumi??
genjimaru got blown away O.o that got me close to tears...
Kuuya lost her santity??
wht kind of ep is this?? its insane...turns everything upside down...soo many questions...imo i give it 20/10!!
kuuya is in a complete mental breakdown. in the game version, kuuya mental state is reduced to a toddler's mind due to the trauma she experienced.
For more questions like who mutsumi is... then this thread should com in handy ^^ http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31739
Renegade334
2006-09-12, 14:32
Okay...let's try not to spoil overmuch. Better yet, let's try not to spoil at all.
...dii makes zombies? O.o
Ain't surprising. He did the same thing for Niwe/Yue but this time he added his little jab at Hakuoro by adding that mind-control mask.
dii turned kamyu into her true form??
&
who the heck is Mutsumi??
True form? I can't say so - remember when Hakuoro found Kamyuu on the lake's shore after she bit Aruruu? Kamyuu said that "her wings were black because she inherited the Ancestor's blood."
"Blood" here has obviously a greater meaning than that - by inheritance she means more than the normal physical attributes inherited through genetical patrimony. Rather, and it's quite easy to figure out, it's more about spiritual essence or whatnot.
The essence of a powerful and mysterious individual (Mutsumi - the black-winged girl) buried within a living person...doesn't that remind you of Hakuoro and the beast within him?
If you compare both cases, well, you can only get to the conclusion that they're suffering from the same predicament.
dii has the demon inside him?? (as seen behind him before he kills genjimaru)
...Obviously, although it's more complicated than that - but since Mutsumi both refers to Hakuoro (when she flew off with Dii) and Dii as otou-sama, one can only conclude that both Dii and Hakuoro are the same.
I'm evasive here because I can't spoil too much - even the most basic explanation already offers too much insight in the UM mysteries. Next ep should suffice to dispel your confusion...hopefully (two eps left...with 50% required for action).
Kuuya lost her santity??
She was making inarticulate sounds when Hakuoro carried her off to safety. Yes, she's completely lost it. Completely catatonic/psychotic.
She lost everything - Kunnekamun, Hien and Hauenkua, was betrayed by those two and had to see the last person who was truly faithful to her die in front of her eyes. The only thing she has left is Sakuya but the trauma induced by the sight of Genjimaru's innards strewn across the floor was enough to send her mind in an abyss of horror and despair. In other words, she was punished in the worst way possible.
wht kind of ep is this?? its insane...turns everything upside down...soo many questions...imo i give it 20/10!!
It's the deep breath before the plunge. No, sorry, it's the momentum taken for the said plunge. The things set into motion come essentially from Dii. The meeting between him and Hakuoro is unmistakably the stepping stone for a cascading effect that should trigger a lot of things having to do with Hakuoro. By the time Dii informed Niwe/Yue that Hakuoro was the 'best of beasts to hunt' (okay, you must come to that conclusion yourself first), it became a certitude that Dii was aware of Hakuoro's true nature - and most possibly his past.
A meeting between someone who's lost his memories and another individual who does know can only lead to groundbreaking development...especially since Hakuoro met Dii for the first time after he's lost his memories.
Oh, and minor trivia: The word "Kunnekamun" was probably constructed from 'kunne', meaning black/night in Ainu, and 'kamun', which was probably some form of 'kamuy', meaning deity in Ainu.
Wouldn't be surprising and extremely ironic in regards to certain truths behind UM's deities and individuals...if you know what I mean. ;)
kuuya is in a complete mental breakdown. in the game version, kuuya mental state is reduced to a toddler's mind due to the trauma she experienced.
For more questions like who mutsumi is... then this thread should com in handy ^^ http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31739
So she's won't be a part of Hakuoro's harem? :(
Deathkillz
2006-09-12, 17:04
So she's won't be a part of Hakuoro's harem? :(
i guess not...unless hakuoro likes crazy girls :p
but imo i feel sorry for kuuya...the way she squeeled while being carried off just stabbs at my heart :upset:
@Renegade334 ~ you are the man :D thx for the explinations
Afternoon.
Not only is episode 24 one of the few well-animated episodes I've seen, it's completely original too, with no recycled footage whatsoever (unless you're getting tired of closeups of Dii's eyes). Furthermore, the CG (and believe me, it took me several passes to notice) blends perfectly with the scenes, or at least blends in a way that you can't really complain about. So yes, high scores for presentation.
Hakuoro vs. Hauenkua and Hein. Definately has that speed reminiscent to EVA-01 vs. the third angel from Neon Genesis Evangelion, episode 2. In NGE, almost all the mech confrontations were annoyingly slow or full of chatter and panning images with the exception of like two or three. Here, the Utawarerumono animators totally didn't slack off. Punching, tossing, jabbing, stabbing. The flow of the carnage just didn't stop and had me at the edge of my seat the entire time. Hakuoro's new voice definately added to the effect. What really grips me is Hauenkua's untimely end. It ended exactly the way I wanted it. He's a mess, his arms have been ripped apart, his body deteriorated. But louder and more gleefully does he laugh, and it enrages Hakuoro even futher. Hauenkua maintained his characteristic evil to the bitter end. Bravo.
Confrontation with Kuuya (pre-battle). This is a classic framing of characters that stems as far back as Battleship Potemkin (old movie, I doubt half of you people have seen it). You've got characters in a position of power at the top of the steps, the people with the disadvantage at the bottom. Staircases have always been a means in TV and cinema to indicate who has the right of power over others, making one seem in a more defined position than the ones below him/her. But let's talk about the animation - and there was plenty of it. Subtle, yes. But I can't tell you how many times in anime where all I've seen are panning still images and talking heads. Kuuya's wailing of the arms, Eruruu being stopped by Hakuoro, the deployment of the window spotlight giving light and shade to Kuuya's (and eventually, Dii's) body. All of it was executed well. And if you didn't understand a clue as to what they were saying, their individual movements made it so that the scene wouldn't bore you. You can tell they're trying to say something, that someone was mad. Good cinema is being able to understand 50-70% of the contents without the audio.
Now for the stuff that didn't work.
As I mentioned at the bottom of my synopsis, the scene with the undead left me with a little bit of frustration.
It was pretty much slapped in there for no apparent reason, and nothing was explained of it by the end of the show. Episode 24 is awfully late in the series to be having unresolved mysteries... in all the times we've seen undead (episodes 14, 15, 20, and 24), we don't learn anything about them other than who makes them (and we figured out who at #14). Simply put, never adding clues or hints to answer mysteries frustrates the audience, and it certainly frustrates me. The time for ambiguity is over.
Here I was trying to indicate that there's a difference between having a mystery slowly being revealed over time and having a mystery remain a mystery for extended periods. The undead is a mystery that has remained a mystery with no new answers whatsoever. It would've been best if they were never added at all - and Hakuoro and his gang would have just fought ordinary Kunnekamun soldiers instead. If that couldn't happen, then at least have Dii say SOMETHING about them, anything. Because as it stands, it's just another lame plot device.
And please, Deathkillz! They prefer to be called the living-impaired. = P
The pace of the story has picked up. No extra second was wasted in slowing down the telling of the plot, and the length of action and emotional impact was sufficiently precise. It's a gibberish episode because it closes a few storylines (and opens new ones), and it's an action episode because Dii, the everpresent antagonist, finally has more than two minutes of screentime. It's also a pretty bloody episode - Avu Kamu and man alike. But we kinda knew that Utawarerumono is a messy show to begin with.
10/10
Some things were done differently as compared to the game, but I think most of the stuff suits the anime well than if it had been the original content. We had established from episode 20 that Eruruu and Kuuya share a bond. Now, when Dii transported the people in the game, it was everyone. But here, it was just our key characters, and it worked out well. Nobody to interupt with the usual "Ani-ja!" lol
Less is more.
Mutsumi's presentation wasn't as glamorous as I thought, and there was a lot less umph to her powers. By now, we've studied the opening of the show frame by frame and we sense that she's much more capable. A shockwave that envelops an entire face of the planet has been associated with Mutsumi, but here all she does is blow up the castle (not even! just a side). Mutsumi was a bit of a let-down this episode, but she's not something you should dismiss - because she can still kick our asses.
Something about Kuuya disturbed me greatly at the end before the credits rolled. It was probably the sound of her voice. I've met people with Autism before, but they don't sound anything like her. She definately begins to sound odd towards the end (sucks to wake up to your pal liquifying), and I think works in a gross way.
So with all the side stories done away with, all that remains is Hakuoro, Dii, and Mutsumi. But we still need to examine many things that the episode has brought out - Urutorii's secret knowledge of Hakuoro, her relationship to Dii, Kamyu's background and her secrets, the final result of Kuuya, and the impact of all of the above to our heroes - who unfortunately missed everything!
There's also the nature of the contract that's worth delving into and speculating. Furthermore, Hakuoro no longer transforms out of his supernatural nature and ends up unconscious or confused. He knows who he is. And personally, I am more interested to see how knowledge of his being will affect his relationship with Eruruu, who doesn't know that he knows that she knows.
All I can say is...HOLY CRAP DX
I still don't like the fact that they killed of Genjimaru T-T He was coooool D;
Cardiac Glycoside
2006-09-13, 03:32
So from the looks of the screens, Episode 24 is like Episode 15 wrought large:
Before, the bulk of the Tusukuru army met the bulk of Shikeripetim army. The situation is reversed since Tusukuru + the rest of the world is invading Kunnekamun. Nevertheless, "decisive final battle" is where the game is.
This time, the undead cover a battlefield rather than an antechamber.
Again, Hakuoro finds himself with an elite ally (Genjimaru) and Eruruu in the enemy ruler's throne room.
Again, the enemy ruler is standing in a superior position to Hakuoro. However, this time, she has a much bigger and scarier weapon.
Again, Hakuoro is stupid enough to try to fight back with only his tiny little fan, and again an Evenkuruga lends him a hand when his little fan is knocked out--again.
Hakuoro once again goes GODZILLA MODE and the effect is messier and more animated.
Dii is around again, but this time makes a bigger mess.
Once again, someone is turned into giblets.
The capital is destroyed again, but this time in such a catastrophic fashion that no one can emulate.
i guess not...unless hakuoro likes crazy girls :p
Crazy people are fun to mess with. He could have Kurou dress up as Genjimaru and sneak up on her and scare her. Or if he doesn't enjoy her befuddled company, he can always have her be Kamyu's replacement for the Spoiled Little Sisters trio... well, now it would be a Spoiled Little Sisters Duo + Raving ex-Empress. Or he could build a model of Kunnekamun's castle and jump on it and smash it--
Yes, I'm evil.
Darklightz
2006-09-14, 12:40
Wow! This episode was intense! Well I"m certainly happy that Kuuya's reign of terror is over.
I still don't get what Dii is trying to accomplish with his zombies.Or maybe it's just a side project?Come to think of it I don't get what Dii is trying to accomplish at all.He schemes and plots but with no specific target(that we know of).Sure he has interest in Hakuoro,wich obviously comes from their past,but what does Dii want exactly?For Hakuoro to join him?To kill him?
Also now that we learn more of Hakuoro's true origins,what is deal with the Rak Shine event?If I try to follow the timeline it seems Iceman lost his memories in the lab.Then he became berserk and called himself Rak Shine and ended up destroying parts of Kuccha-Keccha.then he lost his memories again and got found by Eruruu.
Also I've been thinking about the meaning of Hakuoro's mask.In the begining I thought it was come sort of magical device to seal his memory and keep his true identity hidden,but now I"m starting to suspect the mask is part of him.
But then we see that Dii seems to be involved in the same "project" as Hakuoro was but Dii has no mask.He's also an Ookami while Hakuoro is an ordinary human.
Man this serie keeps getting more complicated!
Xellos-_^
2006-09-14, 13:00
Wow! This episode was intense! Well I"m certainly happy that Kuuya's reign of terror is over.
I still don't get what Dii is trying to accomplish with his zombies.Or maybe it's just a side project?Come to think of it I don't get what Dii is trying to accomplish at all.He schemes and plots but with no specific target(that we know of).Sure he has interest in Hakuoro,wich obviously comes from their past,but what does Dii want exactly?For Hakuoro to join him?To kill him?
Also now that we learn more of Hakuoro's true origins,what is deal with the Rak Shine event?If I try to follow the timeline it seems Iceman lost his memories in the lab.Then he became berserk and called himself Rak Shine and ended up destroying parts of Kuccha-Keccha.then he lost his memories again and got found by Eruruu.
Also I've been thinking about the meaning of Hakuoro's mask.In the begining I thought it was come sort of magical device to seal his memory and keep his true identity hidden,but now I"m starting to suspect the mask is part of him.
But then we see that Dii seems to be involved in the same "project" as Hakuoro was but Dii has no mask.He's also an Ookami while Hakuoro is an ordinary human.
Man this serie keeps getting more complicated!
the anime didn't explain it clearly but he was never rak shine. The kuccha-keccha guy was dupe into thinking he was by Dii.
Renegade334
2006-09-14, 13:28
I still don't get what Dii is trying to accomplish with his zombies.Or maybe it's just a side project?Come to think of it I don't get what Dii is trying to accomplish at all. He schemes and plots but with no specific target(that we know of).Sure he has interest in Hakuoro,wich obviously comes from their past,but what does Dii want exactly?For Hakuoro to join him?To kill him?
Nope. He wants to trigger wars all around to make his particular beliefs in application. Necromancy and whatnot are just another way for him to create battles by adding more opponents to the fray. But this time he added a jab directed at Hakuoro by adding a Hakuoro-like mask to the corpses he reanimated. And, yes, Dii is deliberately targeting Hakuoro but it's more like he wants to get a rise ou of Hakuoro than anything else. Dii would have not ordered Mutsumi to attack Hakuoro had he wanted to have him by his side.
Also now that we learn more of Hakuoro's true origins,what is deal with the Rak Shine event?If I try to follow the timeline it seems Iceman lost his memories in the lab.Then he became berserk and called himself Rak Shine and ended up destroying parts of Kuccha-Keccha.then he lost his memories again and got found by Eruruu.
Wrong. FORGET about Rakushain. He was a decoy put in place by Dii himself to make (through a magical spell) Orikakan believe that Hakuoro was Rakushain. In the game, Orikakan is freed from Dii's spell and realizes that Hakuoro is not Rakushain. He even exclaimed out loud that he had never seen that man (Hakuoro) before.
Also I've been thinking about the meaning of Hakuoro's mask.In the begining I thought it was come sort of magical device to seal his memory and keep his true identity hidden,but now I"m starting to suspect the mask is part of him.
Partly, yes. It does keep something sealed but it's not his memories or his identity. When Eruruu recovered him from the forest where Aruruu incidentally suffered from an injury (although she forgot that part due to her contract), Hakuoro was gravely injured. Trauma is what stole his memories away - not the mask. Same thing for when he woke in the lab...although he was extracted from ice, leaving him unblemished from the long flow of years, he still suffered from mild amnesia due to his close brush with death.
But then we see that Dii seems to be involved in the same "project" as Hakuoro was but Dii has no mask.He's also an Ookami while Hakuoro is an ordinary human.
Same project? What are you on about?
If you're talking about the ghostlike apparition behind Dii when he got stabbed by Genjimaru, then you should realize that whatever happened to Hakuoro wasn't something made of his own volition - so it's not like there is a project lurking behind. When Hakuoro woke up in the lab there was no mention of his other nature, so the other researchers (they weren't archaeologists, btw) were most likely unaware that there was more to Hakuoro than met the eye. No, they were interested in him for other reasons. The fact that the archaeologist was nicknamed Iceman and that we are in the future where genetical engineering seems to be a quite easy science (seeing how they managed to create entities out of the archaeologist's genome) might be a clue. Although Neanderthals are inferior biologically speaking to Homo Sapienses, we are still interested in it. Finding a living body from perhaps a few centuries ago is like finding a gold mine if you're a scientist. There's lot of data to gather from it.
As for Dii being like Hakuoro, although not genetically, there is a BIG reason for that. But I can already tell you that this wasn't of his own volition either. In the game, Urutorii said that he wasn't Dii anymore - I mean, the being known as Dii no longer existed (Dii was her teacher a long time ago, so that's how she knew him) and something else had replaced him. Something among those lines.
I still don't get why people keep referring to Kuuya's war as a reign of terror. That's too simplistic, if you consider all the circumstances and going-ons behind the scenes.
Cardiac Glycoside
2006-09-14, 16:02
Now, how could this anime NOT end like Old Yeller?
Hakuoro (Old Yeller) has kicked ass all over the globe and is now up against Dii (rabid wolf) and they fight and Hakuoro gets tainted? (rabies) so Eruruu and friends will have no choice but to put him down (shotgun).
Am I off the mark?
Of course its already been said, but what a great episode that was. The action, drama & pacing were all spot on in my opinion.. even the music (Yay for finally getting a OST release date).
Genjimaru's final words were really touching if you ask me - maybe i'm just the type of guy that lets these kind of scenes always get to me, but at least he went as the warrior that he was. I'm gonna have to have some kind of Genjimaru day.. in tribute to him. ^_^
Now, how could this anime NOT end like Old Yeller?
Hakuoro (Old Yeller) has kicked ass all over the globe and is now up against Dii (rabid wolf) and they fight and Hakuoro gets tainted? (rabies) so Eruruu and friends will have no choice but to put him down (shotgun).
Am I off the mark?
Sorta, kinda. = o
I've never exactly seen Old Yeller (was too young to remember), but if you wanna put it with that analogy, Old Yeller would have to have rabies to begin with. Rabid Wolf just acts as the catalyst.
In my honest opinion, I have no idea how they'll end this anime. They don't have a lot of different routes to take, but whatever route the producers choose, I'll be very surprised.
EDIT: What happened to all the activity on this thread? o.O
Well I finally got to see this episode and it was good. Can't help but feel bad for Kamyu and Kuuya cause both lost thier personality. I like that Hakuoro can control himself more.
Sorta, kinda. = o
EDIT: What happened to all the activity on this thread? o.O
I think everyone is just kind of sitting quietly at their screen kind of like when the theatre crowd hushes as something really serious is about to happen.
^ Not really. The ones we can't speak of are not doing what they used to do.
My only complain for the episode was that those eye-popping, surprising revelations went on fast without granting enough time for an explanation; the next episode should fix that problem, I hope so.
Anyways, I quite thoroughly enjoy it, as it revealed more pieces of the puzzle.
1. First, Dii bids farewell to Hakuoro addressing him as his (Dii's) other half. Moreover, when Genjimaru struck him an aura similar in shape to the form of Witsarmuitea flowed out from his body.
Fitting the pieces together then I conclude that Witsarmuitea was torn in two dual halves- one resting within Hakuoro and the other awakened inside Dii.
Following, those two halves seem to possess different views about life.
Hakuoro's half wants nothing but to abide the natural flow of the contract. Doesn't wish for the bloodshed to continue, and for the world to return to peace.
On the other hand, Dii's half argues that the current world is in chaos fueled by people's desires, and he's just fulfilling those desires.
2. Another black-winged girl, Mutsumi, who was previously Kamyu but now has resume to existence. She addresses both halves as father.
Regrettable how Kuuya and the Kunekamum ended, but they sought it out and provoked on themselves, however, the blame can also be attributed with all the hatred they received and bore due to following and being raised by the worship of a false god that just instruct them to hate and be hated.
Genjimaru was the contractor for the Dii at the time Kunnekamun was in black-slate chaos, during the reign of the former emperor.
And it's obvious from his disagreement with the war that he loathed to had made that decision on that day that he made the contract with Dii.
BTW, did Kuuya end up with some psychological blunt trauma, because when Hakuoro is carrying her at the episode's end she's making some irrational noises, as if being stupefied?
Deathkillz
2006-09-16, 09:46
BTW, did Kuuya end up with some psychological blunt trauma, because when Hakuoro is carrying her at the episode's end she's making some irrational noises, as if being stupefied?
she was squeeling like a pig being slaughtered...i call that going insane...which made me feel really sorry for her btw :(
heres hope to the laft few eps providing some explinations...and a happy ending of somesort...
If you think about it Kuuya only true friend and fatherly figure she had left is not just kill but spatter in front of you. Just him getting kill would be bad but him getting spatter would be to much for any one to see a love one be kill like that. Kuuya still very young and emotional on her were at high. Mental break down was going to happen sadly.
Renegade334
2006-09-16, 10:12
Fitting the pieces together then I conclude that Witsarmuitea was torn in two dual halves- one resting within Hakuoro and the other awakened inside Dii.
EXACTLY. You got it pin-point.
Following, those two halves seem to possess different views about life.
Hakuoro's half wants nothing but to abide the natural flow of the contract. Doesn't wish for the bloodshed to continue, and for the world to return to peace.
On the other hand, Dii's half argues that the current world is in chaos fueled by people's desires, and he's just fulfilling those desires.
Yup - consider them as the benevolent and the malevolent sides of Uitsuarunemitea himself. Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. Yin and yang. Angel and demon. In other words, opposing personalities <<-- big clue here.
Regrettable how Kuuya and the Kunekamum ended, but they sought it out and provoked on themselves, however, the blame can also be attributed with all the hatred they received and bore due to following and being raised by the worship of a false god that just instruct them to hate and be hated.
Hmmm. I don't know how exactly to address it without spoiling. Oh, well, here goes:
Yes, they were adoring false gods. The Onbaitaikayan weren't gods when the Shakukoporus were born - however, they were considered as 'fathers' of the race but didn't live long enough to teach their creations to hate the other races. Nah, Kuuya told Hakuoro that Uitsuarunemitea was the one who evicted the Shakukoporus from their 'eden' and figuratively took the Onbaitaikayan's throne (I think this last part was specified in the game when Hakuoro met Kuuya) - you can only guess again what happened and WHY they called Uitsuarunemitea, who is a TRUE god (remind yourself, it's not a demon either), the deity of misfortune.
After all, by erasing the Onbaitaikayan, Uitsuarunemitea left them defenseless against the other species. THAT is why they're so resentful towards him.
And, if you resume your earlier train of thought concerning Uitsuarunemitea, you should find it extremely ironic that the Shakukoporus not only found their strength but also their END at the hands of the dark half of Uitsuarunemitea - the one that brought misfortune. In other words, the one who HELPED them but also brought them to their DOOM is no one else than the Nuguisomu-kami they feared so much.
It should also be noted that Dii kept his TRUE nature secret, otherwise the Shakukoporus wouldn't have followed him and accepted his presents.
Genjimaru was the contractor for the Dii at the time Kunnekamun was in black-slate chaos, during the reign of the former emperor.
Which is why he was surprised when Eruruu wanted to stick by Hakuoro's side. He realized that she was in the same predicament as he once was.
And it's obvious from his disagreement with the war that he loathed to had made that decision on that day that he made the contract with Dii.
Of course. By the time Dii used Genjimaru's contract for other purposes and the shit totally hit the fan, Genjimaru could only come to the conclusion that Dii (and himself, by still adhering to the contract) was spitting on a Ebaenkuruga's vow to fight for justice. He could no longer stand back and remain idle, watching as his race's ideals were being dragged through dirt.
BTW, did Kuuya end up with some psychological blunt trauma, because when Hakuoro is carrying her at the episode's end she's making some irrational noises, as if being stupefied?
Yep. Completely catatonic/psychotic. What will become of her *should* be revealed in the epilogue but considering how little time is left, it might be cut out.
She reverts to a toddler's intellectual level and spends her days in Hakuoro's castle playing with Sakuya and staring at whatever crosses her line of sight. In other words, her soul is broken.
Man, I'm still kinda bothered by the fact that Amaterasu delivered such a (theatrically) puny blast. :/
Man, I'm still kinda bothered by the fact that Amaterasu delivered such a (theatrically) puny blast. :/
I found that blast well done. The whole town was blown away. Nice Work from Mutsumi :heh:
Was this just strong magic, or something like that? :D
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/4568/artemisoff01ca7.th.gif (http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=artemisoff01ca7.gif)
Renegade334
2006-09-16, 16:44
Was this just strong magic, or something like that? :D
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/4568/artemisoff01ca7.th.gif (http://img68.imageshack.us/my.php?image=artemisoff01ca7.gif)
...-_O;;
...Btw...
...The Amaterasu wasn't shown in the game but apparently,
It's some sort of satellite laser cannon (a bit like the spaceborne cannon you see in the "Final Fantasy - The Spirits Within" - movie), which is one of the remaining - and still working - vestiges from Mankind's last days.
Who built it?
Those who found the archaeologist encased in ice and started creating artificial life forms from his DNA. The last time the Amaterasu was used until Mutsumi's return (she can hijack the Amaterasu thanks to her powers and her knowledge about the weapon itself) was prior to the new life form's colonization of the Utawarerumono world...
Although there wouldn't be any source of aggression like erosion in space (except for microscopic asteroids and whatnot), I'm still a bit dubious about how it remained in perfect stated even after several centuries (I guess it's at least two hundred years old or even older)...well, it's not like it matters.
Sinestra
2006-09-16, 17:17
Wow this episode kicked ass i love this freakin series things make sense now. I was always wondering who the other half was and now we know Dil. However i did not did not foresee what happened with kamyu. She address them both as father and also before she left said Hakuoro why didnt you choose me? Kuuya's mind has left the building i think the trama of everything that happen has basically left her a vegetable. it sucks but this is the path that you chose and this is what happens when you hate and hate and kill and kill.
Seems like its going to come down to a battle of views between Hakuoro and Dil both possess a demon and both see the world diffrently. I think Aruruu is going to be upset about Kamyu. Also it was nice to Eruruu standing her ground and refusing to leave so she could support Hakuoro.
Question Did Kamyu know Dil from before?
Also now that Genjimaru is gone whos is the contractor for Dil now?
Anyone know how many episode are left 2 or 3?
Cardiac Glycoside
2006-09-16, 17:35
I don't know why Hakuoro is now fighting hot dog condiments; last I heard the ultimate bad guy was Dii.
As for why Mutsumi has two fathers, maybe it's because Hakuoro and Dii were, a long time ago, gay lovers and adopted her. When they broke up, Dii must have been awarded custody.
(Of course I'm being utterly sarcastic. If you don't mind spoilering yourself read Renegade 334 and Zaris' comments).
Who is Mutsumi's VA? Her voice sounds very familiar....Hmm...
Wandering_Youth
2006-09-17, 03:54
One word. Rushed!
That's what I felt after watching the episode, but I should be used to it by now. The problem is I am not and I'm like "WTH! Too many things happened at once in this episode."
Anyways, enough ranting from me. A couple of episodes back when Kuuya was doing all these horrible mistakes, I felt like she should burn in hell. However, after this episode I feel very sorry for her.
The zombie soldiers popping out in the beginning of the episode was so random and Hakuroro's crew never questioned what or how these zombies came to be. They didn't bother going into more detail, but showed that Dii was behind it.
In the last couple of episodes those Kuuya's mech army was owning all the surrounding countries and now they're dropping like flies to foot soldiers. Wow, what happened here? All the grunts became superman or something.:heh:
If they keep rushing the last few episodes like this, I am so going to be bummed out.
In the last couple of episodes those Kuuya's mech army was owning all the surrounding countries and now they're dropping like flies to foot soldiers. Wow, what happened here? All the grunts became superman or something.:heh:
A man can kill termites easily by stepping on them, but termites can kill a man by gnawing away at the wooden supports that's holding up the cement ceiling above him.
Wandering_Youth
2006-09-17, 09:15
A man can kill termites easily by stepping on them, but termites can kill a man by gnawing away at the wooden supports that's holding up the cement ceiling above him.
Deep wisdom there, eh? I like that phrase, but that'll only happen with time and if the enemy is careless.
I just realized that the voice actor for Dii is the guy who did chairman Gilbert Durandal in Gundam Seed Destiny. I was wondering why his voice sounded so familiar. Imo,Shuuichi IKEDA's (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=1014) voice doesn't fit Dii. I was expecting someone like Toshihiko SEKI (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=693) to voice for Dii.
You forget that Hakuoro is a tacticians and possible that Genjimaru may help in figuring out a easy way to take them down. One thing both Hakuoro and Genjimaru knew which was in the last episode is they need mass number of troops. This why they rescue Urutorii dad to help in unite the nation against Kuuya and her army.
Cardiac Glycoside
2006-09-17, 10:56
Hakuoro and allies must have attended E3 '06 so they must have figured out that they need to attack the weak point for MASSIVE DAMAGE.
People are forgetting the Genjimaru factor. You can very well assume that, since Kurou saw him hitting all the weak parts to disable the Avu Kamu pursuers, and Genjimaru offering himself to Hakuoro as a guide to expose all the weaknesses of Kunnekamun forces to get to Kuuya, they could look at Avu Kamu like "minor nuisances" now.
It should've been more obvious to get the point across though. If the producers had decided to keep and show the rescue of Kamyu and Urutorii's daddy, Waabe, it would've become very clear what Genjimaru could offer to the allies.
History has a fair share of traitors that significantly shifted the balance of war. General Lee in the Civil War, Einstein in World War II. This is no different. = |
Xellos-_^
2006-09-17, 13:56
People are forgetting the Genjimaru factor. You can very well assume that, since Kurou saw him hitting all the weak parts to disable the Avu Kamu pursuers, and Genjimaru offering himself to Hakuoro as a guide to expose all the weaknesses of Kunnekamun forces to get to Kuuya, they could look at Avu Kamu like "minor nuisances" now.
It should've been more obvious to get the point across though. If the producers had decided to keep and show the rescue of Kamyu and Urutorii's daddy, Waabe, it would've become very clear what Genjimaru could offer to the allies.
History has a fair share of traitors that significantly shifted the balance of war. General Lee in the Civil War, Einstein in World War II. This is no different. = |
They didn't need genjimaru for that. Harukoro already shown the AV can be stop uring the first attack with giant crossbows. Enough giant crossbows and catapults launching big rocks with knock down the AVs. The AVs are big and strong but not invincible.
Sinestra
2006-09-17, 17:27
People are forgetting the Genjimaru factor. You can very well assume that, since Kurou saw him hitting all the weak parts to disable the Avu Kamu pursuers, and Genjimaru offering himself to Hakuoro as a guide to expose all the weaknesses of Kunnekamun forces to get to Kuuya, they could look at Avu Kamu like "minor nuisances" now.
It should've been more obvious to get the point across though. If the producers had decided to keep and show the rescue of Kamyu and Urutorii's daddy, Waabe, it would've become very clear what Genjimaru could offer to the allies.
History has a fair share of traitors that significantly shifted the balance of war. General Lee in the Civil War, Einstein in World War II. This is no different. = |
True history has shown that traitors can shif the balance in war even though Robert E. Lee was not considered a traitor. I think Genjimaru help with pointing out the weakenesses in the Avu Kamu but it cant be said that eventually that weakeness wouldnt have been discovered espcially with talent that Haruoko has at his side.
This BEAST wasn't maybe the BEASTiest of the group, but it had its share of smashing, and wasn't too bad, but this BEAST (series) is such a BEAST it just smashes around, then beasts this and that and becomes a beast so its alright
It true that traitor can turn the tie of battle but Zaris like it was point out Robert E Lee was with the confeder army tilt the last day when they sign the treaty to surrender.
Einsten had left Germany before war broke in europe. He was no traitor at all he was a pacifist. The one thing he did do was send a letter to the president let him know tha if Germany ever develop weapon base on his theory it would be danger to the world. The letter pretty much green light the Manhattan project. The was as far as Einsten went in his helping. Other Germany scientics who were capture or escape were the one who had bigger role in the development of atom bomb and rocket development.
Hakuoro would have figure away to defeat AV with time and manpower to help with. Genjimaru would had made much thing easier with his knowledge of the AV.
If any were to go 1v1 against AV. I think Karurau, Touka and Benawi are the only skill one to this. Even then Genjimaru maybe more badass than Karurau, Touka and Benawi combine.
Renegade334
2006-09-18, 15:17
For those who want to have a peek at ep25, here are 2- and 4chan links.
http://bin.4chan.org/a/res/1010984.html
2 chan link removed due to porn <-- scroll down, down, down...
I'll erase the 2chan link when it's allotted bandwidth will be depleted and it'll be replaced by pr0n advertisements.
Some things to take note of:
- Little chat between Urutorii and Hakuoro. I guess Uruto already knows who Hakuoro truly is since she knew where to go.
- Kuuya has now regressed to a toddler's intellectual level. She plays with Hakuoro.
- Karura manages to get Touka drunk.
- Little chat between Hakuoro and Aruruu.
- The party goes to whatever remains of the lab the Iceman awoke in. First scene is a glowing symbols-covered chamber.
- They're attacked by red, slimy blobs - the remains of the scientists that once worked there.
- They're confronted by Mutsumi.
- Eruruu's band at the extremity of her hair glows. It's in fact an old artifact (which she inherited from her direct ancestors) that once acted as digital key to open the lab.
- Flashback. Mizushima (the hologram guy) tells Hakuoro to run away. With Mikoto. Mutsumi is seen sleeping in a diamond-shaped cell, left behind by Hakuoro. Which is why she considers to have been abandoned/betrayed by her 'father'.
- Mutsumi once again does some spellwork against Hakuoro but stops when Aruruu steps in front of him. Mutsumi relents and falls to her knees, defeated.
- Dii appears. Hakuoro decides to do something but Eruruu obviously (I mean, vocally) disagrees.
- BEASTtime! This time, it's not one but TWO!
-- One is Hakuoro, the other is Dii, with a differently colored body. Instead of having white bones/outer armor, Dii has black bones with the same blue skin. Black and white, okay? Opposite sides.
- The party watches on as Hakuoro and Dii charge at each other in midair - yep, they're levitating.
Next ep preview:
ONE beast stands alone in an ominous sea of fire. Episode's title: The One Being Sung.
-- I don't know if 'Sung' can be replaced by 'celebrated', 'hailed' or 'revered'...just wanted to know.
Xellos-_^
2006-09-18, 16:34
Ep25 should be call Clash of the Titans.
I'm glad they didnt show the fight at "Sahara" Island. Guess I've seen enough of that; I can very well picture them waltzing in and as usual pwning the whole place. I felt it was a pretty slow paced episode, and well, the lack of any major fight helped.
Seeing Aruruu in the blankets (:naughty:) has convinced me that the world needs a PVC figure of Aruruu on a base of blankets/sheets.
Cardiac Glycoside
2006-09-21, 10:03
That was episode 23....
Mmm, only two more to go. Oh wait, make that one more to go. Episode 24 has lots of action scenes. I can't believe Hakuoro manage to block Kuuya's attack with just his Tessen. And I thought Genjimaru should fight a little longer but he was just disintegrated by Dii just like that
I honestly do not know what to say after watching 24.
Cardiac Glycoside
2006-10-20, 00:23
Did anyone else think that Kuuya was forced to pay twice for the same thing?
Thing: Dii no longer "rules" Kunnekamun.
Price 1: Genjimaru dies.
Price 2: Kunnekamun is annihilated.
Kuuya also paid with her sanity.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.