Higurashi Episode 26 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

kj1980

2006-09-25, 02:00

Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni, Episode 26.

Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for RAWs.
Try to keep spoilers from the Game or Manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Game / Manga, either PM them or use Spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.

Spoiler Tag Usage

Using Spoiler Tags is easy. Using this...

Don't forget to use the spoiler title

....will get you this...

Don't forget to use the spoiler title

ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni
Make sure you read the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni) before you ask questions!!!

Feel free to utilize the info on the TIPS section (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31732) as a complement to this series.

Feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting.

I am designating Sushi-Y and Freakman to lead the discussion in the correct path without spoilers as they have played the game in advance. I put confidence in them that they will recognize a member has spilled the beans too far if any other members has begun to play the game.

SPOILERS FAR ADVANCED THAN THE CURRENT AIRED ANIME EPISODE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS INCLUDES THOSE IN SPOILER TAGS!!!. People tend to peek at spoiler tags; especially when they do not know such tag is meant for the episode, only to find it spilling the beans too far advanced in the game storyline.

USCPharmacist

2006-09-26, 01:41

I voted cuz Rika told me it would be a good episode. She also told me the lottery number so wish me luck...althought there is a mud slide at the main road, so I have to spend a night at the village...

aliensporebomb

2006-09-26, 14:08

I hear there's a nice little VW microbus in the junkyard that's generally fairly
dry and quaint although watch out for parasites.

kj1980

2006-09-26, 14:09

Reading reviews on 2chan, it looks like it failed. Sigh. Oh well, I'd better consider making a thread of Minagoroshi/Matsuribayashi-hen next week.

Eleutheria

2006-09-26, 14:27

Reading reviews on 2chan, it looks like it failed. Sigh. Oh well, I'd better consider making a thread of Minagoroshi/Matsuribayashi-hen next week.

えっ、罪が滅べなかった？

I think I'll skip reading the latter half of Watanagashi-hen, since it's pretty much bs >.> and hop over to Tatarigoroshi. Moe Moe Satoko? Yes please.

Paracelsus

2006-09-26, 14:31

If they failed, they'd better re-animate the last episode, otherwise I shall go postal on them all

<|>_<|>

theacefrehley

2006-09-26, 14:37

Failed?

What do you mean ?
They didn't follow the game on the 26th episode, as they did for 25 episodes?
(I know, there is the details, but the plot of the game was kept I believe)
Or they just did it poorly, like in meakashi?

Shuin4

2006-09-26, 15:36

Oh DEEN... how could you :upset:

Is there ANY hint at a continuation or remake? I'm really hoping DEEN's budget was cut drastically because of ratings/violence with young girls or something because this is probably one of the best anime series to come out recently and if it was animated better and stretched longer, this would've been one of the best series ever, at least in my book.

Edit:: The episode really wasn't bad at all. I would really like to know what Rika said in Oishii's car though.

Deathkillz

2006-09-26, 15:40

Reading reviews on 2chan, it looks like it failed. Sigh. Oh well, I'd better consider making a thread of Minagoroshi/Matsuribayashi-hen next week.

seriously they screwed it up? storywise? :upset:

kj1980

2006-09-26, 15:47

Close, but it seems the final plot twist at the end might've finished a bit confusing for some people...I'll probably have to write that for the TIPS for Ep. 26 (It was a TIPS in either case, but I would've hoped they would at least put that in so it would've given the same shock value).

But by the looks of it, they did have Rika's great quote and the dramatic scene at the rooftop. However, I still have this feeling that it wasn't as articulately portrayed in the original game...I shall see tomorrow.

Shiosai

2006-09-26, 17:05

I watched it without reading any spoilers or TIPS and this episode had some pretty amazing parts.

Rooftop scene seemed kind of rushed and oh god I wish STUDIO DEEN had more money to spend on animation.

Interesting ending though with Rika.

9/10

Sinless Idiot

2006-09-26, 17:15

In ways better, in ways worse than I thought it would be.

Terrorist Rena was ｷﾀ━━━━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━━━━ !! But yeah, Heaven or Hell failed to mostly deliver due to Deen's in ability to make more than three fluid animation cells, but it was a little bit better than expected. Also, I hate Souichirou Hoshi's acting so much in this ep.

Li Jianliang

2006-09-26, 17:24

Episode 26 Screen Captures (http://atashi.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-episode-26-tsumihoroboshi-chapter-five-retake/)

At least the battle that I'd hoped to see occurred. ^_^
If only the other arcs could've been animated... But then again, given what Studio DEEN is producing in terms of animation quality, it's probably for the better.

MarthX

2006-09-26, 17:26

Reading reviews on 2chan, it looks like it failed. Sigh. Oh well, I'd better consider making a thread of Minagoroshi/Matsuribayashi-hen next week.

Expectations were too high. I just saw the RAW, I thought it was great.

Sinless Idiot

2006-09-26, 17:32

Admitedly, they did have enough money to make K1 and Rena's clothes cooly wave in the wind though.

Malintex_Terek

2006-09-26, 17:41

I also saw the raw; the first part of the episode was handled really well, but the legendary "Heaven or Hell" fight...meh, it was pretty bad. Inappropriate music, Deen's signature "distorted" character designs and pretty choppy animation to boot. To top that, there wasn't enough fighting.

In the last episode, I didn't think Keiichi's dialogue was "cheesy"; it sounded a bit weird since Souichirou Hoshi's expressions of pathos were more inclined toward "exhaustion" rather than emotion. However, stopping a certain timer at the last moment was pretty cliché.

Now, here's a question for all you game players. I can't speak Japanese, but here's what I think the "twist" was as interpreted from the final episode:

The explosion Rena was trying to cause did happen, shortly after Keiichi hugged Rena. Am I correct in this?

Varisha

2006-09-26, 18:24

wait, so does that ending mean that even though Keiichi stopped the clock & stopped Rena, the summer 'reset' anyway? So they all died anyway, or is there another trigger for the reset....? I might just have missed some of the Japanese if they explained this.

At least Rika seems to have figured out that who Ooishi picks to ask about Tomitake & Takano is a trigger for driving people crazy.

ayyo

2006-09-26, 18:27

http://www.makenaidesuwayo.com/2006/09/26/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-26/

Ignore the original script and ignore the somewhat bad animation and it is pretty good.

Garet Linegod

2006-09-26, 19:14

Wow... I actually made it. I managed to finish the chapter in the original game before they aired the final episode.

Now, here's a question for all you game players. I can't speak Japanese, but here's what I think the "twist" was as interpreted from the final episode:

The explosion Rena was trying to cause did happen, shortly after Keiichi hugged Rena. Am I correct in this?

I have not seen the final episode yet (particularly since I don't live in Japan), but in the original game:

Despite Keiichi's and Rika's efforts of stopping Rena, the "Devil's Scenario" could not be prevented, and it happened in the form of volcanic gas disaster (similar to the one in Tatarigoroshi).
As ayyo's review pointed out, Irie was found dead inside his Clinic, while Rika was brutally murdered on the same night that Rena's incident happened.

@ayyo:

About the other TIPS, I couldn't find it even after I finished the chapter. Do you know how I could unlock it?

Shuin4

2006-09-26, 19:23

Despite Keiichi's and Rika's efforts of stopping Rena, the "Devil's Scenario" could not be prevented, and it happened in the form of volcanic gas disaster (similar to the one in Tatarigoroshi).
As ayyo's review pointed out, Irie was found dead inside his Clinic, while Rika was brutally murdered on the same night that Rena's incident happened.

Then what was up with the last scene in the anime?(I know you haven't seen it, this is targeted for any of the game players)

Malintex_Terek

2006-09-26, 19:39

Then what was up with the last scene in the anime?(I know you haven't seen it, this is targeted for any of the game players)

I haven't played the game, but my assessment is that the outcome of Tsumihoroboshi-hen was "good" for Rika, as she managed to prevent more people from getting killed prior to that "accident". If Rika is playing a game that involves luck, she was really lucky in Tsumihoroboshi-hen; if she continues to end up with good rolls like this one, she'll escape this scenario-loop she is stuck in.

That being said, the "real culprit" of this scenario likely needs to be killed, which, if that culprit is who I suspect, hasn't happened thus far in the series.

Fallacy

2006-09-26, 19:44

Then what was up with the last scene in the anime?(I know you haven't seen it, this is targeted for any of the game players)
If you're talking about how Rika is looking ebil after being told that Tomitake has died, isn't it an indication that the world "resetted" like in each previous arc? :eyespin:

Shuin4

2006-09-26, 20:04

If you're talking about how Rika is looking ebil after being told that Tomitake has died, isn't it an indication that the world "resetted" like in each previous arc? :eyespin:

the anime made it seem like the last scene happened the next day (Which was already confusing since Rena should've been taken to Juvie and nobody in their right mind would want to be around her)

keep in mind i didn't understand any of what Rika said, so i wouldn't know if she said it was a different universe

I also like how Keichii's dad is up on the anime's site even though he wasn't in the anime at all (I think they showed him kicking Keichii's door in episode 2)

And where the hell were they(or Rena's dad for that matter) in this episode? Don't you think it would've been a good idea to get her dad to try to talk his daughter out of it, or call Keiichi's parents saying "Hey, your son is being held captive in the school and has a chance of being killed."

Though, the police weren't all that smart anyway since they just let 2 kids try to murder each other on the school roof.

ayyo

2006-09-26, 20:07

@ayyo:

About the other TIPS, I couldn't find it even after I finished the chapter. Do you know how I could unlock it?

Go to the Omake section and go to TIPS

JarOfMayo

2006-09-26, 20:09

Then what was up with the last scene in the anime?(I know you haven't seen it, this is targeted for any of the game players)

Like everyone else said. Exactly what it means.

The real kuromaku (villan - mastermind) is not even revealed. The cycle continues.

Now it should be obvious why the anime doesn't go into the next chapters... Its like the writer's decided to instead of just recreating the whole Higurashi story, they chose to pose the question:
"We just showed you a majority of the evidence... There were differences in our exhibits but some clear similarities... Now whats your answer?"

Garet Linegod

2006-09-26, 20:19

the anime made it seem like the last scene happened the next day (Which was already confusing since Rena should've been taken to Juvie and nobody in their right mind would want to be around her)

keep in mind i didn't understand any of what Rika said, so i wouldn't know if she said it was a different universe

Judging from what Rika was saying in the end, the last scene is indeed from another scenario, where things happen all over again. Rika's words was an indication of what she learnt from Keiichi during Tsumihoroboshi: to not give up on hope and keep trying, and believe that out of all those different outcomes, one of those would lead to the prevention of this whole tragedy.

Actually, I found it a little weird that they would include the reference of dice rolling of Rika in the anime, as it was never mentioned before since they didn't include any TIPS. :heh:

Garet Linegod

2006-09-26, 20:24

Go to the Omake section and go to TIPS

Actually, that's what I did. And I have one of them (the "jaw-dropping" twist), but I couldn't find the other one that you mentioned in the review (the "grandfather" and "god" one). Is there something missing that I didn't do?

ayyo

2006-09-26, 20:30

Actually, that's what I did. And I have one of them (the "jaw-dropping" twist), but I couldn't find the other one that you mentioned in the review (the "grandfather" and "god" one). Is there something missing that I didn't do?

Whoops. I mucked up. That TIP is from Minagoroshi's first chapter. Oh well.

Rasuberi

2006-09-26, 20:32

I guess I'm at least, satisfied. Huu...

Uhu, I loved terrorist Rena too! I congratulate DEEN on at least making it suspensful at some parts, and for making my heart hurt when Rena was beating on Mion. :( If only the animation was better, but other than that, Rena's lines were nice. <3

I also wish Rika's voice didn't have to go so deep in the anime... It only needed to go a liiiittle deeper, Tamura...

Overall, better than I expected. *sigh*...

Hopefully... I'll have time to read more of the novel this weekend!

Sinless Idiot

2006-09-26, 21:07

Actually, upon a few more viewings, this episode in general is a lot better than I oirginally gave it credit for. My only main problem is how they break up the fight with other people speaking, which is always bad idea if you trying to create a sense of action. They should have just done Rika's, Oishi's and everyone else's comments before the fight started so they didn't stall the action. But what's done is done.

Sushi-Y

2006-09-26, 21:37

Excuse me, I need to scream something first.
The mo, the mop, wh, where's the MO------------P!? AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
Ok, let's calm down.

First of all, this episode was quite uneven in terms of "how well it was done": The nicely done parts were absolutely awesome, the badly done parts were absolutely terrible.

I'm going to be judging this episode from a gamer's point of view, and it's going to be very critical because it was one of the most famous scenes in the entire game series. So I won't be holding back on the complaints.

First of all, let's start with bad part:
- The music. I know I can't expect to hear the game's music here, but this is just...

To give them credit, the music got a little better near the end. When I first wrote my comment in the game thread after finishing Tsumihoroboshi-hen, I mentioned that this finale was like watching an episode of 24 (it really was). But the music remained a dull~ boring~ ambient precussion-ish thing until Keiichi and Rena's fight, where we actually got a semi-active score. Even then, everything remained very "ambient".

I couldn't stress enough how important the music was to the game's story (it's called a sound novel for a reason), even Ryukishi-san himself mentioned that each scene in the game was written while he listened to the music that's going to be used for it. It was a huge mistake for the animation staff to ignore the importance of "musics" for this series.

- Other misc. scenes that were very hard to ignore when they have been altered or skipped. Because this part of the game was such a significant one, it's really "irritating" if some parts went against our mental image of what the scene should be like.
1. Mion not getting her chance to look/sound heroic (it was really her only chance :heh: ). Rather than staying conscious and still caring for others even though she's hurt, she just got knocked out here until it all ended.

2. Rika's signature line came out (although it feels almost as if Deen squeezed it in on purpose because they know they'll be facing the wrath of thousands of fans if they DIDN'T put it in :heh: ). But her line officially starts with 生憎ね、１分も稼げれば十分なの (Sorry, but if I can stall for even 1 minute, it'll be enough), so they really only got HALF of Rika's sentence. In the end, 遊んであげるわ、おいで鉈女 (I'll play with you, come here, hatchet woman) only sounded like an odd reply to Rena's "you're gonna get killed" statement.

3. Animation during the fight. Well, I wasn't expecting much. But I'm amazed at how their bodies would wriggle and morph as they moved around. It's almost as if they're made of jello. :heh:

4. The lack of Keiichi's "winner's statement" in the end. I had a strong mental image of Keiichi making an open challenge to the "demons" while holding Rena in his arms (with the game then breaking into credits and ZERO). Mu, that's ok, I'll just complete it in my head again.

The good parts:
- The coverage of the story. Probably because they're finally devoting an entire episode to a single important scene of the game, the story was told nicely. Some skippings still occured (for example, the whole struggle to find the hidden kitchen timer was far too easy in the anime, it almost felt as if Satoko was a psychic, to be able to figure out everything so fast). But other than that, this was the best episode in terms of pacing.

- Keiichi and Rena's fight (non-animation part). Their conversation alone is enough to make you cheer out loud. There were a lot of nuances of a love confession during this scene in the game, and certainly is enough to make Keiichi x Rena supporters go crazy. Again, they had to compress the conversation, but still, the "treat me gently, and make me happy" and the "we'll always be together" part made me go AHH~:love:

- Rena "noticing" her mistake in the end. Excellent job from both Nakahara Mai and Hoshi Souichirou. And for some reason, the animation fluidity and quality skyrocketed here (especially for the tears). :heh:
Now, as for the ending... I don't know... For those of us who played the game, the Rika/Oishi conversation in the end was great, especially Rika's final line, which certainly sounded like something she would say. They even ended with the signature "series title popping onto the screen with a boom sound" thing.

But for the non-gamers (especially for those who didn't read the TIPs)... It may be nothing but a source of confusion? :confused:

imac2much

2006-09-26, 21:38

I hope this isn't too off-topic, but what were the events that occurred in this arc (or any previous arc, but I only saw references during this one) that may allude to future arcs? I'm not asking for what exactly happens in Minagoroshihen, etc (I know people are working hard on this already), but at several times it seems certain events were left out of the anime because they allude to arcs that won't occur in the anime... am I correct in this?

LostBlue

2006-09-26, 22:05

4. The lack of Keiichi's "winner's statement" in the end. I had a strong mental image of Keiichi making an open challenge to the "demons" while holding Rena in his arms (with the game then breaking into credits and ZERO). Mu, that's ok, I'll just complete it in my head again.

...they... they.... they... (goes to broken record mode)... ;_;

As for the Epilogues... I have no expectations for this. DEAN skipped pretty much every epilogue since Tatarigoroshi. Plus the Demon's Script one would greatly confuse the viewers... but then I guess same would have been said to the gamers who followed the series from the start and had to wait for Minagoroshi. Dean could have pulled it off. But then maybe they couldn't pull the money to bring Akasaka's CV just for that scene :heh: I don't know why DEAN didn't seem to care to give a budget for this anime. Well, but then I guess, you don't enjoy HIgurashi for the imagery. But *sigh* at least keep the sound, half of that was free :heh:

I hope this isn't too off-topic, but what were the events that occurred in this arc (or any previous arc, but I only saw references during this one) that may allude to future arcs?

In this arc paticular the TIPs Rena's Hideout, My Fav Wine, Last Night, to some degree Reason to Move to Hinamizawa, and the last TIP for this arc which will go up soon. For the other arcs... read the TIP section. They're scattered about in there.

ToxicWind

2006-09-26, 23:19

Great episode, even though I had no idea what was happening at one point, (my fault for watching a raw without knowing japanese...) but it was a good episode.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/g3nam/chris/higurashiend.jpg
*cries*

Eleutheria

2006-09-26, 23:27

Alright, episode seen.

As one who hasn't read sound novels past Watanagashi-hen (starting Tatari now), this was actually pretty good.

1) Even with all the major characters alive at the end, they still couldn't break the pattern, and the whole damn thing is reset again. I disagree that it was vague, since it was pretty obvious to me that the final epilogue scene was yet another permutation of the "eternal June".

2) The fight was meh. Didn't Studio DEEN animate Fate/Stay Night? However, I haven't heard any of the hype about it ("Heaven and Hell"?), so I didn't really look forward to it. Where were the police sharpshooters? [EDIT: I see, ayyo mentions this in his blog post. Dang, I really can't push Ryukishi-san into a plot hole]
Anyway, I liked the rooftop banter a lot. It sounded like a frickin' meido-con marriage proposal--if they both survived.

3) Who let poor injured Rika/Oyashiro go off into the night alone to be watanagashi'ed again? She's in the middle of her NAKAMA, for chrissakes.

4) Rena's repentance scene was very nice. Almost cried. Then I remembered I had to do laundry. I agree with one of the above posters that the bomb disarming scene was cliche, although it could've been worse. If any of you saw the movie Goldfinger, Bond stops the bomb right at 0:07.

5) I went ahead and splurged, ordering Matsuribayashi-hen from an online vendor. As such I will be ignoring the inevitable Minagoroshi/Matsuribayashi thread (the M&M thread) that will appear in this forum.

6) Dammit, it was a nice ending, but still the culprit is out there somewhere. Unforgivable. Cicadas are crying.

kj1980

2006-09-27, 01:00

DEAN skipped pretty...Dean could have pulled it off...DEAN didn't seem to care to give a budget for this anime

Studio DEEN is spelled with two Es.

In any case, I see that they did not make this episode to our expectations. As with every other original story based anime, let us demand a remake by Kyoto Animation www

chrno_the_sinner

2006-09-27, 01:15

Even knowing what was left out, I thought it was a pretty good episode. I don't think anyone was thinking that the final TIP would have been left in, so there's not much dissapointment there. Rena showing up on the roof made my heart skip a beat though, it was definitely suspenseful, even though I knew about the rooftop fight since the beggining of the series from that TYPE-MOON fanart.

The only thing left to do now is wait a week for the fansubs so ayyo can finally start translating Minagoroshi-hen.

Is it possible that Rika injected Rena with the syringe this time around? I've always thought that Rika had the cure for the madness since she tried to use it on Shion. I don't believe that Keiichi cured Rena on friendship alone, though it was a large factor.

Also, I'm assuming that last scene is from Minagoroshi-hen? Rika got picked by Oishi this time, and obviously she won't be swayed by his words since she knows a lot more about everything than anyone else in the village. That scene makes me really wish to see Minagoroshi.

Garet Linegod

2006-09-27, 02:19

Is it possible that Rika injected Rena with the syringe this time around? I've always thought that Rika had the cure for the madness since she tried to use it on Shion. I don't believe that Keiichi cured Rena on friendship alone, though it was a large factor.

Actually, that was one of the things that was left out back in episode 25. Rika visited Rena during the time when she was hiding in her 'secret hideout', just before Keiichi did. She presented the syringe to her and offered the injection. But Rena who was overtaken by her own madness, accused Rika of attempting to kill her the same way that Tomitake was murdered. Whether the syringe was a cure or not was never clearly stated, but Rika did mentioned that the substance inside was different from those used on Tomitake.

EDIT: A question to those who play the game -
I just started Minagoroshi chapter, and was wondering if anyone remembers if there was any indication at all in Onikakushi whether the Hinamizawa great disaster happened or not at the end?

MarthX

2006-09-27, 03:13

sagematt

2006-09-27, 03:13

[...]although it could've been worse. If any of you saw the movie Goldfinger, Bond stops the bomb right at 0:07.

But the timer was supposed to set off at 7:00 anyways :heh:

But yeah, it could have been worse

DEAN skipped pretty...Dean could have pulled it off...DEAN didn't seem to care to give a budget for this anime

Studio DEEN is spelled with two Es.

And he is supposed to be the lead translator :heh:

Oh well, you can't really cry over the spilled milk, even more so when it had been spilled so long ago. It was a good episode and a good series overall anyways (it gets the same rating as my rating for this episode: 7 - Good).

Do those internet petitions things still work nowadays? Because we so need KyoAni doing the surgical on this one :D

Thisguy

2006-09-27, 08:13

Excuse me, I need to scream something first.
The mo, the mop, wh, where's the MO------------P!? AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!You've got my whole-hearted support, man :rolleyes:

As people have already mentioned, they seems to have done their best to put everything in mere 25minutes... but that simply wasn't enough.
The "Curtain Call" has been cut, so are Ootaka-Kun, U-string lock and last but not least, the Devil's Scenario TIPS.
Also the duel scene could use a bit more length IMO, for that was rather too short to give the impression of they're really enjoying themselves in duel.

In short, they really should've spent 6eps for Tsumihoroboshi-hen, which must have made it much better... but I dunno what chapter we should take it from.

- The music. I know I can't expect to hear the game's music here, but this is just...
Honestly I didn't expect any for BGM anymore, and DEEN proved that they're trustworthy in that aspect :heh:
It would have been much better if it were arranges from original game, but that's what MADs are for... I'm sure some willful soul would do that.

So, now that the Anime's over, what we gonna do here?
I heard that F/SN board went for revealing all spoiler from all routes, because whatever game players say, "This is it" for anime watcher.
If we gonna take the same path, I'm eager to help "spoiling" as one of game player in this board...
However, if Gosanke (kj, Sushi and LB :p ) thinks otherwise - or they determined some kind of guide-line already? - I'll make sure that I'll follow that myself.

chrno_the_sinner

2006-09-27, 08:55

Actually, I meant I thought that Rika might've used the syringe during her confrontation with Rena in 26. I just find it a little hard to believe that Rena could be saved by friendship alone when even Keiichi couldn't back in Onikakushi. Since we didn't see the actual fight (as far as I know, Game players could confirm), Rika could've very well used the syringe.

And yeah, a ___ for Rika would've been nice. It seemes hard to defend yourself against a hatchet without some kind of weapon/defence piece.

imac2much

2006-09-27, 09:04

In this arc paticular the TIPs Rena's Hideout, My Fav Wine, Last Night, to some degree Reason to Move to Hinamizawa, and the last TIP for this arc which will go up soon. For the other arcs... read the TIP section. They're scattered about in there.

Well I've read all the TIPs so far. I was more referring to certain scenes in the anime that aren't necessarily in the TIPs, that alluded to future arcs. For example, the scene with the other cop trying to come to the rescue here or something, supposedly that was cut out because it alludes to Minagoroshi hen? And I believe there was something similar like this in ep 25, and someone said "well they probably took it out because there won't be any Minagoroshihen."

RiXeD

2006-09-27, 12:17

Well, I fully understand Rena and her situation and stuff... But on the other hand, if the thing she wanted was love, she should`ve gone totally kawaii-kana-and-stuff on Keiichi. IMO only real gay would be able to resist that mixture...[/kinda quoting Suzumiya Haruhi]

USCPharmacist

2006-09-27, 13:44

I for one think the episode was great, and I am geting a little bit sick of people complaining about how the series should 200 episodes long, or that the Heaven and Hell scene should be as impressive as Star War 3, as if budget grows on tree. Not only does it not grow on tree, the studio has to split the budget amoung advertising, buying TV slot, dvd production and profits. There is only so much a producing can do with limited amount of money, unless he is Mr. T or McGuyver who can make Thermal nuclear device out of a pencil, a piece of bubble gum and some tape.

Furthermore, scenes that were cut were not entirely the producer's fault. I am pretty sure if the fan can think of some good way to put the story together that the producer can do it better. However, have you fans ever try to act out all the scenes you think they should be in the episode against that 24 mins hard cap? You will find it impossible to put everything in without going over because the sound novel never have to worry about it to begin with and can put as much efforts into making a certain scenes perfect.

I am not saying the episode is perfect, but complaint after complant from episode 1 to episode 26 is a bit tiresome, why not just enjoy what's good about the episode and read the tip section from the game to complete the story on your own.

LostBlue

2006-09-27, 13:56

Actually, that was one of the things that was left out back in episode 25. Rika visited Rena during the time when she was hiding in her 'secret hideout', just before Keiichi did. She presented the syringe to her and offered the injection. But Rena who was overtaken by her own madness, accused Rika of attempting to kill her the same way that Tomitake was murdered. Whether the syringe was a cure or not was never clearly stated, but Rika did mentioned that the substance inside was different from those used on Tomitake.

EDIT: A question to those who play the game -
I just started Minagoroshi chapter, and was wondering if anyone remembers if there was any indication at all in Onikakushi whether the Hinamizawa great disaster happened or not at the end?

Actually, Rika doesn't know if Tomitake was drugged or not.

Rena accuses her, but read Rika's response again.

「The shot that Tomitake had, huh? But this is different. Okay?」
「富竹の注射はね。でもこれは違うわよ。本当よ？」

And he is supposed to be the lead translator :heh:

:heh:

Ahh, how can I redeem myself here...

D = Disappointing
E = Entertainment
A = Administrator for the people that weren't
N = Non-gamers?

:p

Actually, I think KJ and Sushi-Y translate better than me. I'm still quite a bit inexperienced as this was my first TL project along with Zero.

Well I've read all the TIPs so far. I was more referring to certain scenes in the anime that aren't necessarily in the TIPs, that alluded to future arcs. For example, the scene with the other cop trying to come to the rescue here or something, supposedly that was cut out because it alludes to Minagoroshi hen? And I believe there was something similar like this in ep 25, and someone said "well they probably took it out because there won't be any Minagoroshihen."

What the anime skipped, added, and will allude later besides the obvious TIPs:
(off-top-of-my-head) I won't explain any of these in detail here.

Keiichi's dream in the beginning

The Club game version of Tag

Skipped Tomitake hanging out with the group during the Watanagashi Festival. He technically failed to get anything from the shooting game and thus had to suffer a penalty game. His penalty was all the five of them writing (kind/sweat) msgs on his shirt. Mion and Rena were trying to do the same to Keiichi later.

Mion admitting that she spiked the Ohagi to Keiichi.

- What will allude later -
The card game: Jiji-nuki
The card game version of Clue
Keiichi Letter to Oishi (or actually what was taken from it)

Overall good job on DEEN part, I think

.
The games played in the shop (connects to Minagoroshi Hen)

The Doll Scene

"Mion's" Confession

The Taste-testing Desert Fair at Angle Mort which served as a time stamp like Tomitake's death :heh: Seriously, you knew you hit the half way pt when you find out Tomitake has died once again ^^;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; The fair finally makes it's appearance in Tsumihoroboshi Hen though

The "EYE"s (probably the scariest thing from this chapter)

Keiichi realizing that he never apologized to Mion (he apologized to Shion who he thought was Mion).

Oishi questioning Keichi if Rika had diabetes.
Oishi telling Keiichi what exactly was found in the depths of the well.

-added-
Emo faces

Spoiler scene of Rika stabbing herself. Doesn't happen in this chapter. Rika was tortured.

Overall not a bad job on DEEN's part

Explanation of Rina's death (connects with Minagoroshi Hen)

The entirety of Keiichi's monologues

Keiichi's awakening (off-topic but the manga did this really well)

Keiichi predicting Takano's death by fire

Introduction of Kasai (I almost thought that he wouldn't even be in the anime for a while)

Kameda-kun! :heh: Actually, funny thing is, his name has been in the game since Onikakushi ^^;;;;

The showing of Keiichi waking up in the ravine walking to the village, smelling the acidic smell, noticing the silence - no a single bird or even bug chirp - and seeing the body bags being laid out in the school yard, and seeing them being thrown and piled into trucks.

Keiichi questioning who's going crazy: Him or the Village (which was pretty much the theme of this chapter)

The reason why Keiichi went to dig up Teppei's grave since
1) he was too scared to confirm whether he was in the house
2) he wanted to make sure the person he killed had the tattoo Dr. Irie said Teppei had

Keiichi carrying Satoko on his back to the Furude shrine to pick up her clothes. <- much more suspenseful and better all the way around

Satoko's Confession of why she thinks she is cursed

Epilogue of the Gas Disaster and how it effected the nation (connects with later chapters)

Oishi and Kuma disappearing during their investigation (connects with Minagoroshi)

Death Toll Credits

Keiichi's Interview

- Minus Pts -
Not developing Keiichi character well enough here.
Probably weirded people that Keiichi developed such a strong bond with Satoko so fast and how he just "jumps" to the conclusion that killing Teppei is the best answer. That's why we need monologues, DEEN.

Kei-chan had Rena's hatchet not an axe. Looked silly the way he wrapped it and poor way of showing Satoko's reaction of Rika's death to conclude it was Keiichi who did it - in her eyes.

I have a feeling that Sushi-Y will add more to this :heh:

- Added -
Keiichi remembering stuff when he falls... I don't remember seeing this in the anime but several people mention this on the forum. I don't remember Keiichi doing so in the game either.

Satoko's superhuman strength :huh:

Overall a TERRIBLE job on DEEN's part. "F-" from a game player's pt of view.

Skipped stuff aside, what happen to the animation?

Nothing really expect for the TIPs which explains a lot of other things like Rika's mom, how the village pampers Rika, and all the Sonozaki scenes.

I guess, Akasaka's reprisal to Rika in the form of the book, "Higurashi no Naku Koro ni" dedicated to find out her killer. Connects to Tsumihoroboshi Hen, Minagoroshi Hen, and Matsuribayashi Hen to some degree.

-added-
Rika control of the wind :huh:

Not a bad job on DEEN's part

YOU (Dai-chan ;_; )

Doll Scene

Satoshi Killer Theory of Oishi during his interrogation with Shion

What Rika was screaming hysterically while she was stabbing herself (connects with the later chapter - personally I think that would have throw this already gruesome scene over-the-top for TV audience)

90% of Shion's monologues
- Shion convincing herself that she is a Demon
- Shion's Game

How Rena freaks Shion out at the bus stop

Shion's Confession

Shion's journal entries
- Shion thinking the footsteps she hears were Satoshi's

That Shion is really Mion

The explanation of the Sonozaki Bluff

Shion's "Curse System" theory
Shion's apology
Shion's realization

The famous last words

-added-
Shion's 100 emo faces
Shion's ice cream licking
20 yrs to Akane's age ^^;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

- Plus pts -
The "footsteps" in this chapter was literally Godly :D

DEEN just dropped the ball in the last EP otherwise I think they did a really good job with this chapter.

Rena's past

Reina != Rena

Keiichi's past

Rena and Rika scene (connects later to Minagoroshi)

Mion picking apart Rena+Keiichi's phone call

That inside the Ohagi wasn’t a needle but Tabasco sauce.

Rena's Sin Speech + Keiichi's Forgiveness Speech (which is my favorite scene in this chapter. Given the time constraint, I think DEEN did an ok job summing this scene, however, they skipped all the good lines and drop 90% of it)

From what I'm reading about this EP
How Rena made her home-made bomb - not important at all but if you guys want to know I guess I can fill you in.

Keiichi Victory declaration!

don't know what else besides the Mop :heh:

- PLUS Pts -
The kept the water fight game

I'll reserve comment on this chapter as a whole until I see this EP

I'm sure I skipped out some other stuff like the other club games but that's the jist of what I remembered

Malintex_Terek

2006-09-27, 14:15

I heard that F/SN board went for revealing all spoiler from all routes, because whatever game players say, "This is it" for anime watcher.
If we gonna take the same path, I'm eager to help "spoiling" as one of game player in this board...
However, if Gosanke (kj, Sushi and LB :p ) thinks otherwise - or they determined some kind of guide-line already? - I'll make sure that I'll follow that myself.

I'd disagree with that option on two grounds; Higurashi isn't an utter disappointment like FSN was, and Ryukishi07 is offering us a challenge to solve the mystery of Higurashi before cannonballing into Minagoroshi-hen and Matsuribayashi-hen. I've been marathoning Detective Conan for two weeks now to get the right mindset for analyzing this show; I'd feel really bad if I was just fed the answers by the game players. :heh:

rogueblade

2006-09-27, 14:34

Well, i'm PISSED.
The episode itself is fine, really enjoyed watching it, but the plot "finale" is just annoying the heck outta me.

I've read pretty much all the spoilers from this site on Minagoroshi or whatever it was called, and i must say, i'm dead annoyed at this "IT'S THE SUPERNATURAL" bullshit. I was enjoying this series hoping that there was some logical, clever explanation to this all, but no, it's a freaking timewarp situation. Ugh, what potential this story had...

Anyway, i must say.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
To WinD for subbing this entire series, you guys deserve a chocolate bar.

And that'll be the end of my brief spell in anime, seeing as the upcoming shows don't really interest me,... unless there's a Suzumiya Haruhi 2 on the works...

BakaOnna

2006-09-27, 14:50

I've noticed a trend. Whenever an episode discussion is over 2 pages BEFORE the sub is out, you know it'll be a bad episode. >.< Sigh, why did it have to be the last episode though.

imac2much

2006-09-27, 15:07

Whoa whoa whoa! That's a lot of stuff being skipped! I did read ayyo's Higurashi and the Jewel for Onikakushi-hen, so I think I have a better feel for the things the anime skipped in that arc... though I thought Mion admitting she spiked the riceball was a pretty significant thing to skip. I was wondering if that was just his imagination or what. Overall it doesn't seem like too many significant details were skipped.

As for Watanagashihen, the thing I was most surprised to see you mention was Rika's death. So that scene only happened in Meakashihen, and instead she was TORTURED in Watanagashihen?? This now clears up why she knew that Mion/Shion was a 'sadist' when she decided to kill herself instead of letting herself be tortured! The doll scene is also a pretty big thing to miss out on, but I already knew about that so I'm not as surprised ^_^ (But why did Oishi ask Keiichi if Rika had diabetes? Did he discover some substance in her body after her death, perhaps from the syringe?)

Tatarigoroshihen seems to have missed out on a lot of things; fortunately much of it was explained in the TIPs (like Rina's death and its significance, and the interview) or in the episode threads by gameplayers (like Keiichi's "KOOL" mode, which I really wish was animated). The epilogue was poorly done as stated, and I'm still confused as to how the gas disaster affected the nation, or if Oishi/Kuma really did die or whatever (I thought Oishi disappeared, but he reappeared in the 4th arc, which I thought was a sort of 'sequel' to Tatarigoroshi? Guess I'm wrong on that). And I still don't understand how Rika died, but perhaps that will be explained in later arcs. Like you said, I thought this arc was the most poorly done, even though it had more eps than the last 2 arcs :( When I watched it with my friends, we all wondered aloud why Keiichi felt so attached to Satoko in this ep.

I thought Himatsubushihen was pretty good... it basically provided more clues to the table, kind of like one really long TIP :) And from what you are saying was left out, doesn't seem too many significant events are missing.

Hm, I'm kinda divided on Meakashihen. True, it seemed like the anime missed out on many things, and the animation quality really made a nosedive, but I felt like much of it DID answer questions from Watanagashihen. Thankfully much of the missing material is available in the TIPs, though the doll scene and the epilogue missing truly is a disservice to fans. Leaving out the Mion<->Shion thing was kinda weird too, but it didn't really affect the anime too much (as in, didn't leave any plotholes really).

Oh man, the needle in the ricecake wasn't a needle at all?? It was tabasco sauce?! How could they leave out details like this :( Oh well, at least I know now haha. And yes, I agree that the meeting between Rina and Rika seems pretty important. But what about the scenes referred to in ayyo's summary, such as Otaka coming to fight Oishi or something. This supposedly is important in future arcs, but who the heck is Okata?

Man after reading out all these things that are missing, I wish more of these things were explained (I know a lot of these things were explained in forums here, but for instance this is the first time I hear that it was tabasco sauce inside the rice cakes :P). But thanks for your in-depth response Lostblue (and all the other analyses and translations from Kj1980, Sushi-y and yourself).

RiXeD

2006-09-27, 15:13

Keiichi Victory declaration!

Could you please desribe that more troughly? I`m curious about it ^^

Shiosai

2006-09-27, 16:07

Oh man, the needle in the ricecake wasn't a needle at all?? It was tabasco sauce?! How could they leave out details like this :(

Yeah, when I saw them stop on the needle in the ohagi and sit on that scene for a few seconds I was totally waiting for the needle to disappear or something. I guess there's no quick visual way to explain it was tabasco sauce and DEEN was pressed for time.

I've noticed a trend. Whenever an episode discussion is over 2 pages BEFORE the sub is out, you know it'll be a bad episode. >.< Sigh, why did it have to be the last episode though.
It wasn't that bad for the ending to the anime itself. There were some spectacular one-liners and Rena's entrance at the beginning was just perfect. The very end did sort of feel like an advertisement for Minagoroshi-hen, but I think game players enjoyed it.

Rasuberi

2006-09-27, 16:55

I've noticed a trend. Whenever an episode discussion is over 2 pages BEFORE the sub is out, you know it'll be a bad episode. >.< Sigh, why did it have to be the last episode though.

...It wasn't a bad episode.

The amount of commenting is probably because it IS the last episode.

Wanderer

2006-09-27, 17:19

As a non game player, I had mixed feelings. I really liked episode 25 and had heard some hype about the conclusion of Tsumihoroboshi-hen, so I had some high expectations... which I can't say were completely met. Animation could have been better, but as for skipped scenes, the problem is simply the time constraints. Everything else they might have put in would require cutting the time allotted for something else. It certainly doesn't seem like they ever put anything in that would be easy to cut.

Between what the anime shows and what people say, it is getting a bit difficult to keep track of things. This is how things go in the game as I can gather. Can a game player confirm this?

Onikakushi-hen

Fate of Rika: Unknown
Fate of Hinamizawa: Unknown

Watanagashi-hen

Fate of Rika: Tortured to death by Shion (Watanagashi style? Was she found at the shrine?)
Fate of Hinamizawa: Gas disaster

Tatarigoroshi-hen

Fate of Rika: Found at shrine, Watanagashi'ed
Fate of Hinamizawa: Gas disaster

Himatsuboshi-hen

Fate of Rika: Found at shrine, Watanagashi'ed
Fate of Hinamizawa: Gas disaster

Meakashi-hen

Fate of Rika: Suicide
Fate of Hinamizawa: No gas disaster (Although, I find it somewhat interesting that in the credit role, no one lives in Hinamizawa any more)

Tsumihoroboshi-hen

Fate of Rika: Found at shrine, Watanagashi'ed
Fate of Hinamizawa: Gas disaster

LostBlue

2006-09-27, 18:49

I'm sure I missed more things. That was just the ones off the top of my head. Most likely the tip of that iceberg.

In respose to USCPharmacist about the complaints. I agree to a degree. DEEN does deserves credit for doing it and getting it out there. But DEEN did a Grade C job at it to the game players' eyes. Reason why this is a ANIME of a SOUND NOVEL.

DEEN you gotta to get at least one of these things right.

#1 the Sound. Not using the any of music or sound effects from the game or subsituting it with something on par was a poor decision. It is a SOUND novel. The SOUND is a big part of the experience.

#2 is the animation. This is an ANIME. It was horrible how the animation quality dropped as the series progressed. The quality was low to begin with but... woah, the sakugas aren't even average quality to today's standard, IMO. Heck, there will be less complaints if the sakugas were at least consistant. DEEN is capable of this, that's what makes it more frustrating. Personally, what annoyed me the most is the stuff DEEN added animation-wise which serve no purpose other than distract from the story in a bad way.

#3 is the story. For the most part, I don't blame DEEN for skipping some of the stuff. Getting even 26 episodes was a blessing. But Tatarigoroshi was bad... I mean terrible... I mean horrible. Tatarigoroshi is the MOST important of the 3 main question arcs. Heck, the entire story is more or less is in that one chapter. Pretty much the rampade of complaints about the series from the game players increased tenfold because of DEEN's horrible portrayal of this chapter. With the vast amount of things not shown in that chapter it's very understandable the complaints with the story.

If DEEN at least did a good job one of these, I think for the most part we would be satisfied. The sound especially... especially when it's already laid out and DEEN had a very capable music composer working on the series. Sushi said it before, but AIR wouldn't be the same without the musical score. Same here. It's just not the same.

Keiichi Victory declaration!

I haven't seen the EP yet, but from what I'm reading this has been skipped.
At the end of the whole Rena vs Keiichi fight, where Rena gives in, Keiichi Braveheart styles screams at the sky:
"This is the end!! We defeated the tragedy!! We will no longer doubt one another. That is why our unity will last forever!! That's why whatever script is put before us, don't think we will give into it! Screw the tradegy and the misfortunes. The script wrtiten to satisfy you devils, from now on, no matter how many times you come, We will destroy your ploy!!!!!!!!!"
screen fades
*BOOM* HIGURASHI NO NAKU KORO NI appears.
Then the chapter's final TIP, Script of the Devil, unlocks
There you find out the Gas Disaster happens and everyone dies.

Fate of each chapter?

Onikakushi-hen

Fate of Rika: Dead (confirmed)
Fate of Hinamizawa: Gas Disaster (assumed)

Watanagashi-hen

Fate of Rika: Tortured to death by Shion (Watanagashi style? no. Was she found at the shrine? no, in the well)
Fate of Hinamizawa: Gas disaster did not happen

Tatarigoroshi-hen

Fate of Rika: Found at shrine, Watanagashi'ed
Fate of Hinamizawa: Gas disaster

Himatsuboshi-hen

Fate of Rika: Found at shrine, Watanagashi'ed
Fate of Hinamizawa: Gas disaster

Meakashi-hen

Fate of Rika: Suicide
Fate of Hinamizawa: No gas disaster

Tsumihoroboshi-hen

Fate of Rika: Found at shrine, Watanagashi'ed
Fate of Hinamizawa: Gas disaster

Sushi-Y

2006-09-27, 21:16

Everything else they might have put in would require cutting the time allotted for something else. It certainly doesn't seem like they ever put anything in that would be easy to cut.
That's true, they can't include every memorable line/scene from the chapters, because it's simply physically impossible to do. So when I say "they left out ____" or "they skipped ____", it's not as a complaint, but as an expression of regret. Because really, the series is so much more than what the anime was able to show, it's really regrettable to see things being cut out.

For example, they didn't include Rena's famous "confession" line in this episode (just before Rena and Keiichi made their final attack):
Keiichi: "Rena.... even if one of us die here, we'll still be able to meet each other again for sure...... So, if we ever meet again,"
Rena: "Let's play together normally, laugh together normally, .....and fall in love normally..... Never doubt each other. And always believe in each other...... So, .........We'll be able to meet again, right? For sure......?"
Keiichi: "Yeah, ......for sure............"

But really, there are countless "significant" lines like that, so it'd be unreasonable and pointless to wish to see them all in the anime.

I haven't seen the EP yet, but from what I'm reading this has been skipped.
At the end of the whole Rena vs Keiichi fight, where Rena gives in, Keiichi Braveheart styles screams at the sky:
"This is the end!! We defeated the tragedy!! We will no longer doubt one another. That is why our unity will last forever!! That's why whatever script is put before us, don't think we will give into it! Screw the tradegy and the misfortunes. The script wrtiten to satisfy you devils, from now on, no matter how many times you come, We will destroy your ploy!!!!!!!!!"
screen fades
*BOOM* HIGURASHI NO NAKU KORO NI appears.
Then the chapter's final TIP, Script of the Devil, unlocks
There you find out the Gas Disaster happens and everyone dies.

ZERO played a big part in that "Happy Ending" illusion too. When I was playing Tsumihoroboshi, I already knew about Minagoroshi through magazine previews, so I know it's not going to be the end. Which is why I was quite surprised when everything ended so beautifully with the credits and ZERO playing in the background.

The Demon's Script is a very important TIP, not only because of the "shocking truth" it reveals, but also because it neatly reorganized all the facts and possible theories that resulted from this chapter.

Of course, it doesn't change the fact that the revelation of certain "supernatural" elements (surrounding Rika), which was made clear in this chapter, will disappoint some viewers who were expecting a scientific explanation for everything. The same happened with the gamers too when Tsumihoroboshi / Minagoroshi was released.

Nevertheless, the game was a successful one, because for over 3 years (between Onikakushi's release in 2002, until Tsumihoroboshi/Minagoroshi's release in 2005) the game has kept the fans guessing and talking. Even after Minagoroshi-hen spilled everything, it still remains a highly entertaining novel.

Eleutheria

2006-09-27, 21:33

Well, i'm PISSED.

i'm dead annoyed at this "IT'S THE SUPERNATURAL" bullshit. I was enjoying this series hoping that there was some logical, clever explanation to this all, but no, it's a freaking timewarp situation. Ugh, what potential this story had...

By the end of the first arc when everything resets, it should've tipped you off that there is definitely a supernatural element to this, no? If not fantasy, then sci-fi alternate universe. One or the other.

It's awfully strange for you to not have picked this fact up through nearly half a year, and then write a rant about it when the anime ended.

Your alleged "failed potential" is based on your expectation that this is a mystery story. Well, it most emphatically isn't--a close analogy would be me watching Haruhi and saying "WTF you explain plot line XXX with the line that she is a god? Screw this supernatural bs!" Granted, Higurashi is a lot less upfront about the supernatural bits, but I do think that the mere existence of resets is enough.

Matrim

2006-09-27, 21:44

It's awfully strange for you to not have picked this fact up through nearly half a year, and then write a rant about it when the anime ended.

You were expecting it to be "just" a normal mystery story when it's most emphatically not, and was very clear about it with the resets.

Not really, the resets might have been just a device for adding more and more clues with the passing of each chapter and not necessarily indicate that all these things actually happen in connected universes/realities/whatever and some of the characters are aware about that.

As for the last episode, I can't say much before the sub but I did expect more because of the hyped Heaven and Hell scene. During the fight I was really wondering why doesn't some policeman try to shoot Rena which I doubt was the point of the scene. :)

LostBlue

2006-09-27, 22:04

why doesn't some policeman try to shoot Rena

They couldn't do that. Because the police knew there was a lot of gasoline vapor accumulated in the room. There was a sniper on stand-by, however.

The game went in a nice in-depth analysis of how powerful gasoline really is.

Fallacy

2006-09-27, 22:05

Not really, the resets might have been just a device for adding more and more clues with the passing of each chapter and not necessarily indicate that all these things actually happen in connected universes/realities/whatever and some of the characters are aware about that.
Maybe! But I guess we can't forget about how Keiichi remembered his previous self in Onigakushi-hen and how Rika seems to understand. :eyespin:

Malintex_Terek

2006-09-27, 22:07

rexlunae

2006-09-27, 23:42

What's the problem with one supernatural plot device? The whole rest of the story was based around logical occurences of events, motives, and real tools for each scenario; if anything, the supernatural bit only strings the different arcs together, for it doesn't have an extreme impact on the plot of each arc.

There's another extremely popular mystery series called "Death Note" that is entirely based on logical reasoning, though it has two supernatural elements that are essential to the plot. Rika's "shining" isn't even as essential as the Death Note or Shinigami, since she doesn't use her supernatural ties directly to manipulate the scenarios in any way.

...

Of course, I am saying this without knowing what happens in Minagoroshi-hen. :/

The problem with a supernatural "plot device" is that it destroys the entertainment of this series as a mystery, which is what made it interesting in the first place. There are, I believe, a lot of people who were sitting at home trying to find a way to reconcile the scattered and sometimes contradictory information we are given, with some degree of success. But now, why bother trying to explain why Keiichi could kill people with his thought? Because of the supernatural element, it can just be magic, and no further explanation is needed. Same with Takano holding conversations with people after she was supposed to have died.

It would be different if the supernatural elements were well defined from the beginning, but they aren't even well defined now, and we just were definitively told that the supernatural element is there in episode 25 for the first time (I firmly believe that prior to that point, all elements could have been explained rationally). It just cheapens the whole thing.

All in all, this series has been an entertaining distraction, so in that sense it works. But if the point of the anime was to sell the sound novels, it failed, at least in my case, because now I don't care about any explanations that could be offered.

JarOfMayo

2006-09-28, 01:25

Yea I can understand how a supernatural portion could make things kinda fluky...

But it would flawed to say that just because Rika is or in possession of flipping the hourglass of cycling worlds... Doesn't necessarily entail that everything else... even those things that are Rika related, are supernatural as well. You don't think believe that our main casts choices and paths followed in every world were all magic do you? Does Rika having/being a part of a supernatural cycle have a effective cause to people's actions?

(In a general sense causally they do, as without the cycle no other worlds... not even the first, Onikakushi would even occur... since nobody knows how many times Rika has had to relive the same month or so) Asides from this consequence of the cycling... does the supernatural in this story have "blame" to put for how things are? How things play out?

Its like the question posed at the start of the series in Onikakushi threads... Supernatural or logical explanation... Well it seems "or" is itself is actually incorrect. :heh:

MarmoO

2006-09-28, 05:19

If you expected totally rational explanations, I guess you didn’t pay much attention during Himatsuboshi. I just can’t wait for rantings after Minagoroshi 羽入, or things Rena, Keichi and Shion knew from their dreams
I think ending of this episode strongly indicate there will be continuation :).
Episode wasn’t bad except animation, I hope, when animating Minagoroshi Deen will be able to put much more “heart” in it.

imac2much

2006-09-28, 10:38

kj1980

2006-09-28, 11:51

There's a few questions I still have that haven't been answered yet I think...

So who is Okata? And why is he fighting with Oishi (and why does this tie in with later arcs)?
How do we know that Rika is watanagashi'd at the end of this arc? I know the TIP says that she died and the disaster occurred, but does it also say she was watanagashi'd?

Perhaps you are confusing something with something else? I don't recall anyone by the name of Okata fighting against Oishi. Also, I'm not finished with final TIPS yet, but it is safe to say Rika died by being watanagashi'ed

imac2much

2006-09-28, 12:23

rogueblade

2006-09-28, 12:36

By the end of the first arc when everything resets, it should've tipped you off that there is definitely a supernatural element to this, no? If not fantasy, then sci-fi alternate universe. One or the other.

It's awfully strange for you to not have picked this fact up through nearly half a year, and then write a rant about it when the anime ended.

Although i had an inkling that a supernatural force was driving the story, i was hoping that i was wrong and that there was a logical sequence of events behind it all. I was hoping that if you could overlay all the chapters you would get some clear sequence of events that stayed constant through all the chapters, and that would be the "true" story. Or at least there was an explanation on some other level than "It was all just a timewarp, end of guys, end of".

Your alleged "failed potential" is based on your expectation that this is a mystery story. Well, it most emphatically isn't--a close analogy would be me watching Haruhi and saying "WTF you explain plot line XXX with the line that she is a god? Screw this supernatural bs!" Granted, Higurashi is a lot less upfront about the supernatural bits, but I do think that the mere existence of resets is enough.[/QUOTE]

Uh... Haruhi is a comedy - i found it relied a lot more on the comedy/romance element rather than the plot. Higurashi is a suspense thriller - it relies heavily on plot. How can you compare how a comedy uses a plot line and how a suspense thriller uses a plot line?
Anyway, it wasn't ambiguous as to what was going on with Haruhi's status, while in higurashi, the viewer had a lot of space to formulate ideas.

Stilla great series, not denying that, but the final "twist" just ruined it a little for me.

LostBlue

2006-09-28, 14:29

Sorry, I misspelled it. This was taken from ayyo's summary of episode 26 on his site:

"-Ten minutes before 7, Otaka-san and his own police force arrive to try and take over the scene but Oishi fights him. This is a foreshadowing of the future two chapters."

I'm just wondering what scene is all about, since it ties into later arcs...

The guy you're talking about (I don't recall his name, but I thought it was something different) is from the Prefectural Police Department Criminal Investigation Department (I think was that was his section and I believe he is the chief of that section). His role in the overall story is fairly minor although I love the scene with him, Akane, and Oishi later in Matsuribayashi hen.

Basically, he's this guy who is butts heads with Oishi a few times in the course of the story. IIRC he might have been in a previous TIP when Oishi tried to get a search warrant and he denies him that request (don't remember all that well - might have been someone else). Socially in the Police Department Hierarchy this guy is higher up then Oishi.

He's an overall minor character.

Malintex_Terek

2006-09-28, 17:47

The problem with a supernatural "plot device" is that it destroys the entertainment of this series as a mystery, which is what made it interesting in the first place. There are, I believe, a lot of people who were sitting at home trying to find a way to reconcile the scattered and sometimes contradictory information we are given, with some degree of success. But now, why bother trying to explain why Keiichi could kill people with his thought? Because of the supernatural element, it can just be magic, and no further explanation is needed. Same with Takano holding conversations with people after she was supposed to have died.

It would be different if the supernatural elements were well defined from the beginning, but they aren't even well defined now, and we just were definitively told that the supernatural element is there in episode 25 for the first time (I firmly believe that prior to that point, all elements could have been explained rationally). It just cheapens the whole thing.

All in all, this series has been an entertaining distraction, so in that sense it works. But if the point of the anime was to sell the sound novels, it failed, at least in my case, because now I don't care about any explanations that could be offered.

You didn't get what I was trying to explain; the "supernatural" element in this is just information and how Rika obtained said information. She's been living in multiple realities and she's retained some information from each one; even then, most of her attempts to apply what she knows has failed. Aside from this, there is a logical explanation for everything else that is going on in Himinazawa. How does that "cheapen" the story in any way?

TougeSil80

2006-09-28, 18:26

LostBlue

2006-09-29, 00:19

A couple questions. It seems like Rika is killed in every arc and she can't live past a certain day. Now the anime didn't really explain why Oyashiro has to kill Rika everytime (directly by watanagashi or indirectly by other characters), so does the game give any insights into this? Could this Oyashiro really be an alien as Rena suggested? The anime ending is too rushed, it didn't explain a lot of things. So if anyone played the game, or have anime theory about this please share.

why Oyashiro has to kill Rika everytime

:) You're on the wrong track. What did Rika-chama say about Oyashiro-sama? Oyashiro-sama is a kind and loving god. Oyashiro-sama is the god of good relations even mending the relations between Civlization & Demons instead of erradicating them. But in short, Rika doesn't know why she's being killed nor does she remember the last moments of her life. She just wakes up again, at a certain pt in her life, knowing it will end in June 1983.

Anywho, I finally saw the EP. I liked it overall. I'll give it an 8.
Missed the Keiichi's Victory declartion and Rena's secret confession but I can understand why it was skipped. Oishi calling out Rika seemed really odd and out of character tho.

rexlunae

2006-09-29, 00:49

You didn't get what I was trying to explain; the "supernatural" element in this is just information and how Rika obtained said information. She's been living in multiple realities and she's retained some information from each one; even then, most of her attempts to apply what she knows has failed. Aside from this, there is a logical explanation for everything else that is going on in Himinazawa. How does that "cheapen" the story in any way?

I understood you just fine. I don't know where you get the information that this is the one-and-only supernatural element, if you've played the game or whatever, but from the perspective of someone who is still going through the story, there is no way to know that at this point, and it's cheating to ask someone who's finished. The only way to know that is to go through the whole story, and once you've done that, there's no mystery left.

Having a supernatural element degrades Higurashi from a mystery to try to solve to just a story that follows only the convenience of the author. Because he resorted to a cop-out to explain one mystery, there could just as easily be another cop-out for the next mystery. The only way to really have a good mystery with supernatural elements is for those elements to be well-defined early on so the author can't pull a trick like this one. If this one element was introduced in Onikakushi-hen, I don't think it would spoil the whole mystery.

To those who are saying this isn't supposed to be a mystery, I can't even begin to imagine how that can be true. If it's not a mystery, why is it presented this way, divided into chapters that ask 'questions' and those that present 'answers'? And don't the closing lines of Onikakushi-hen seem to be setting up a mystery? "To whomever reading this, please uncover the truth."

Anyway, time to stop ranting, at least for me. If you enjoyed it, great. If, like me, you feel this is an unfortunate turn, you have my sympathy. But I still enjoyed it, up to episode 24, so overall, I can't complain too much.

sagematt

2006-09-29, 01:57

Ahh, how can I redeem myself here...

D = Disappointing
E = Entertainment
A = Administrator for the people that weren't
N = Non-gamers?

:p

Doujin Visual Novel Adaptators
Extremely and
Astoundingly
Noobish

...Nah, you win :)

Actually, I think KJ and Sushi-Y translate better than me. I'm still quite a bit inexperienced as this was my first TL project along with Zero.

Your job was superb. There is no blood in it ;)

*ahem*
By the way, do they get laid in the end after all? I think someone did mention something about it before (maybe kj or Sushi, can't remember). Sorry to sound like such an ero freak, it's just that the comment sparked my interest.

kj1980

2006-09-29, 01:59

By the way, do they get laid in the end after all? I think someone did mention something about it before (maybe kj or Sushi, can't remember). Sorry to sound like such an ero freak, it's just that the comment sparked my interest.

Uhh...no. This is a normal doujin game with no ero in it.

MarthX

2006-09-29, 02:01

Uhh...no. This is a normal doujin game with no ero in it.

I recently learned that it shows Satoko naked. :p

It definitely caught me by surprise.

kj1980

2006-09-29, 02:06

I recently learned that it shows Satoko naked. :p

It definitely caught me by surprise.

That's the scene where she was taken out from the hot bathtub (anime Ep. 13).

sagematt

2006-09-29, 02:31

Uhh...no. This is a normal doujin game with no ero in it.

*tries hard to remember the related post*

Oh, it actually said something like this "AFAIK this is the only arc where Keiichi and Rena got _____".

I guess my ero-autopilot mode got ignited and automagically filled the blank. Sorry about that :rolleyes:

Sushi-Y

2006-09-29, 03:33

*tries hard to remember the related post*

Oh, it actually said something like this "AFAIK this is the only arc where Keiichi and Rena got _____".

I guess my ero-autopilot mode got ignited and automagically filled the blank. Sorry about that :rolleyes:
That was me. :heh:

What I meant to say was that Tsumihoroboshi-hen was the only chapter where Rena and Keiichi actually showed some romantic interest in each other. In the other scenarios, the developments simply didn't give them the chance to create or express that feeling (well, Rena practically gave up her life to Keiichi in Onikakushi-hen, which probably means something).

Really, a lot of things in this series is up to your imagination, depending on your alignment (KeiichixRena, KeiichixMion, etc.) and interpretation, you can easily pick up signs of love here and there. :heh:

Thisguy

2006-09-29, 04:11

What I meant to say was that Tsumihoroboshi-hen was the only chapter where Rena and Keiichi actually showed some romantic interest in each other.Not exactly from in-series, but I think you've seen one of ending from Daybreak...
That was really embarassing to watch, and I wouldn't be suprised if they went to Rena's hideout togather afterward :heh:
(While Daybreak is likely to be an non-related side story, it's Ryu-chan that wrote the script. that means something.)

MarthX

2006-09-29, 04:24

*imagines a Higurashi Dating Sim*

To give it a twist, if you end up pissing off one of the girls too much, she'll kill you. :heh:

USCPharmacist

2006-09-29, 18:38

*imagines a Higurashi Dating Sim*

To give it a twist, if you end up pissing off one of the girls too much, she'll kill you. :heh:
:heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh:
ultimate badend

Ayu-ayu

2006-09-29, 19:31

Doesn't
Even
Animate
Nicely
? :heh:

I'm convinced, and thanks to all the interest in English-patching the audio novels and the dedication of the translators on the TIPS and helping folks on the forum, I'm going to order it tonight. This is the deepest story I've seen set to animation yet, and it was a doujin soft. Gotta support that. :) It's unfortunate that DEAN mucked it up so badly. Has anyone from DEAN actually said anything on the matter yet?

MarthX

2006-09-29, 20:10

sagematt

2006-09-30, 00:31

DEEN not DEAN.

Nein, it shall be hereby known as DEAN. Blame LostBlue :D

sunny_ta

2006-09-30, 19:01

Weeeell, I liked the last episode. The battle was plenty intense and the pacing felt right. I can understand the gripes with the animation though... the budget hurt the atmosphere ever-so-slighty.

Reading all the stuff that was left out (in particular, Keiichi's speech and more lines during the fight), I'm a bit disappointed. Especially since I prefer KeiichixRena. >_>

DragoonKain3

2006-09-30, 20:00

I haven't read any of the previous posts, but HOLY CRAP this episode was amazing. I could care less about the animation, but wow. I'm no shounen action fan, but I found that fight thrilling. (Though to be fair, it's part of my sadistic side in wanting to see one of them killed that brought out some of that XD)

As with the entire series, can't help but love Nakahara Mai's rendition of Rena. From her sweet kawaii side to her evil laugh (gotta love that laugh), she really brought her character to life.

And yeah, the lines between Rena and Keiichi during the fight. If taken out of context, it sounds exactly like a marriage proposal. KeichiXRena <3

From a non-gamer's POV, Higurashi is a REALLY good series. Sure there's a lot of unanswered questions remaining (with the most obvious, who/what causes the Hinamizawa deaths), but the combination of mystery, suspense, WAFF and hint of romance makes it very memorable indeed.

Too bad Higurashi started during spring, because I still like SuzuHaru and Zegapain better than it. It's a shame really because it won't earn a place in my sig even though it easily beats out any of the summer shows.

Matt Soulblade

2006-09-30, 20:55

I didnt read the TIPS, but I definitely liked the ep.
Gets a 10, Keiichi+Bat=Win :)

Ayu-ayu

2006-09-30, 21:03

DEEN not DEAN.

Ack! I feel dumb since I wasn't spelling it with an "a" previously.

Okay,

Double
"E":
Eclectic
Nomenclature?

...orz

i0td

2006-09-30, 22:08

From a non-gamer's POV, Higurashi is a REALLY good series. Sure there's a lot of unanswered questions remaining (with the most obvious, who/what causes the Hinamizawa deaths), but the combination of mystery, suspense, WAFF and hint of romance makes it very memorable indeed.Another non-gamer here, and I also agree that overall, the series was very intriguing, very exciting, very entertaining. This final episode with Rena's enlightenment to the truth and Rika's mysterious closing statements provided enough closure (for me at least) to give this series a satisfying end. Yes, I still have quite a few unanswered questions that span the entire series because I didn't want to spoil myself too much earlier, but now that the series is over, I'm ready to go over in detail the TIPS you guys have provided.

Does anyone have any recommended readings first that will provide a clearer picture of the overall series/game, or should I just go ahead and plunge myself into the FAQs and TIPS threads? And if the latter, do you guys recall any of the particularly helpful TIPS that will cure confusion? For example, the TIPS that can provide an answer to the question DragoonKain3 has posted: "who/what causes the Hinamizawa deaths?"

Thanks.

i0td

2006-09-30, 22:23

I was actually a bit hasty in my prior posting. A good amount of information is already very nicely summarized in this new thread that I didn't notice: Your Qs for Higurashi Answered (Read at your own risk) (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=36602). A good supplement to the FAQ and TIPS.

theacefrehley

2006-09-30, 22:32

Another non-gamer here, and I also agree that overall, the series was very intriguing, very exciting, very entertaining. This final episode with Rena's enlightenment to the truth and Rika's mysterious closing statements provided enough closure (for me at least) to give this series a satisfying end. Yes, I still have quite a few unanswered questions that span the entire series because I didn't want to spoil myself too much earlier, but now that the series is over, I'm ready to go over in detail the TIPS you guys have provided.

Does anyone have any recommended readings first that will provide a clearer picture of the overall series/game, or should I just go ahead and plunge myself into the FAQs and TIPS threads? And if the latter, do you guys recall any of the particularly helpful TIPS that will cure confusion? For example, the TIPS that can provide an answer to the question DragoonKain3 has posted: "who/what causes the Hinamizawa deaths?"

Thanks.

The TIPS are not spoilers to anything nor answer anything once and for all.

They are just additional info. Some are good clues for you to guess what is happening and some are kind of useless (difinitely or just at first sight)

As for the last EP, I liked it a lot, and I'm also another non-gamer...
Overall the series was pretty good IMHO. If it weren't I wouldn't even have bothered to read the TIPS every week (thank you guys for translating. You made the series even better for me). Let's just hope for a future sequel.

I don't know how the show was going in Japan, but if the ratings were good, maybe we can get a second season with 14 episodes (like SuzuHaru) for 2 arcs and a better budget (I know I'm hallucinating... :D). With 7 episodes each, maybe DEEN can stuff everything the gamers are complaining about into hehehe (or go further and make another 26 episodes with Onisarashi-hen and Yoigoshi-hen added)
SuzuHaru had good ratings and I can't see they not doing a sequel for her show. I hope Higurashi is the same. (Don't shatter my illusions telling me the ratings were crap!!!! heheehe)

BakaOnna

2006-09-30, 22:49

I have to agree. As a non-gamer, I loved this series, but I do hope to play the game sometime in the future once I learn Japanese, or enough of it to understand the storyline and read. And I did enjoy this ending, even though it's not the true ending.

However, I have to say, this is probably one of the worse animated series I've seen. :heh: Okay, maybe that was too harsh, but the animation is pretty... bad. The art is all right and works well, but the animation is just... unfluid and made the characters look jello-y. The emo face contortions, especially the ones made by Shion, really lost the creepy affect after doing them for the nth time. Actually, they became hilarious, especially in the screenshots. xD But the characters, plot, and whole story made up for the bad animation. ;)

Now I'm sad this series ended. What will I look forward to every week... I do hope they make OVAs of the last two arcs, which I kind of doubt they'll do.

Varion

2006-09-30, 23:16

...wow.

I'm going to have to agree with many of the non-game players here, overall the series was amazing. Only Watanagashi failed to keep me on the edge of... well, the bed technically, I figured I'd love this one after Episode 4, and I did, and Tatarigoroshi is STILL one of my favourite arcs despite how much people complain about it. As for the supernatural element...well, I'll deal. I think it helps I've already read a certain visual novel which did pretty much the same thing with the whole 'keep trying until you get the right result' theme going on to soften it up for me, and Higurashi is handling it better than that did. Not exactly impressed with it, but if that's the limit I'll let it slide.

So, obviously, it had bad parts, which have pretty much been covered. The music was a huge disappointment overall (there were a few good tracks, but with the game's OST at hand it just added insult to injury. The Rena vs Keiichi theme was good but, surprise surprise, it was pretty much just a remix of Main Theme, which was the best track to start with :heh: After finishing the series I just kinda stayed still for a bit then fired up ZERO followed by 彷徨いの言葉は天に導かれ and it worked wonders. Seriously Kenji, what were you doing? The animation was also crappy, and while I doubt they will go round fixing it for the DVDs I'm not giving up hope until the third comes out with the ladder scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-cnllB8b8U) and proves me wrong. Sometimes it was really good (especially during the final crying scene with Rena, she looked so pretty there) but... yeah. Skipping stuff I can deal with, but I wouldn't have minded seeing the Rena/"Rika" scene at the dump. Oh well, they WERE short on time.

So basically, I loved it. This series will definitely go down on my favourites list and I'm looking forward to reading Minagoroshi when the patch is complete. Until then I'd rather try and work a few things out for myself rather than go on a self-spoiling rampage. That's just no fun :(

(oh and btw, for game players, when DID 彷徨いの言葉は天に導かれ play? It wasn't the fight was it? >_<)

i0td

2006-09-30, 23:23

The TIPS are not spoilers to anything nor answer anything once and for all.

They are just additional info. Some are good clues for you to guess what is happening and some are kind of useless (difinitely or just at first sight)...I'm really an avid reader when it comes to good stories such as this one, so why didn't I bother to read into this earlier lol. Being overly excited about the Higurashi story, I was really afraid that I was delving into spoiler terrority with the TIPS when everything is exactly as you've mentioned, material to supplement the anime.

I've already read into some of the recent posts (those concerning the answer arcs). All I have to say is that the full story really fascinates me. Thanks translators for providing us this excellent additional content and organizing it in a very helpful manner.

Chibi_Faerie

2006-09-30, 23:24

I've never actually rated one of the episodes before till now, well that I can think of... I'm too lazy... And sleepy... Work is fun... *Shakes head and hopes people note sarcasm* Anyways about the episode, I think it was good really, having heard some original music from the game I agree the music isn't right up to par but it was well enough. I LOVE how things turned out. Well... The things we got to see anyways. The long awaited scene with Keiichi and Rena was far different than I had been picturing after seeing spoiler pics up till now, and a little too short but still quite well done given the time frame they had to cover. It would have been nice if they had covered everything else in the arc and gotten everything right in the first place but then I would have liked that in all the arcs as well and the series would have been a lot longer. But I understand that budget and stuff didn't allow it (Ok I know the budget has nothing to do with some of the things they messed up, but I'm afraid nothing can be done about that sadly... Just means I have to play the game, which I plan to thanks to nifty patches eventually.) ... So all in all I think it was done well enough compared to a few other arcs in the series, but Onikakushi-ken was still the best quality as far as I'm concerned. But an ok ending nonetheless, though with what Rika said at the end it either leads me to believe that the anime was meant to inspire more people to buy the game, or there will be more in ova format or something. One can dream on the sequel idea but at this point I really wont hold my breath. But still all in all a good ending with a lead up to the game for those that got into it through the series I think. Confusing... but I'll wait and see.

---

Now on to the one thing I have been waiting to do but wasn't sure where to put it till now. Since I have no idea where to post it, I'll just join it here since the people it's to usually read this thread. I just wanted to say a big thank you to Kj, SushiY, and Lost Blue for all their hard work in this forum from the start to end, you guys have absolutely rocked majorly. I've never seen a trio so dedicated to leading us all on in as orderly a fashion as you could have considering all the theories and ideas you've had to listen to, mine included (As crazy as they were), for the posting of Great MAD Higurashi videos which I'm still hooked on, and for the poems, tips, and left out material you have covered, translated to give us ('currently') non-game players. Especially considering you never had to do any of this, I just think it's so great that you three took the time out of your daily lives to do all this for us. So without further ado, a higurashi style thankyou :D

Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!! Thank you so much, thank you! Thanks!!!

And finally, Honto Arigatou!! *Super glomps them* You all are really awesome and I have really appreciated this through the series, I've never seen such an active forum of teamwork on a 'mystery' anime before.

(P.S. Please forgive my grammar, I think it flew out the window around midnight or something... If anyone finds it, send it back to me ne?)

myopius

2006-09-30, 23:57

I really liked the rooftop conversation. I'm happy to have been proven wrong, in that there was no way they'd both survive... I guess I just thought things would be darker since there was the theme that "once you start to get screwed, you end up completely screwed" through the different chapters. It was great to see Rena come to desire the friendship she once had enough that she was able to stop herself. I think Keiichi let the bat go flying so she could have the opportunity to choose not to kill him... I think that for him, whether he won or lost didn't matter, it was whether she was able to trust him again, and so he was willing to risk his life for that.

Somebody asked what was with the fight scene's animation? That fluid style is the same they used for the water pistol fight at the beginning of the chapter. Guess they figured since Keiichi was causing Rena to reminisce, they should show that by connecting the art styles.

"Endless June"... hmm, so it's like Groundhog Day? I'll found out when I read the other two arcs, I guess (somebody's translating those right? well anyway I'll look into that).

Keiichi no Hibi

2006-10-01, 00:18

Well I waited for subs so I could understand what was going on instead of watching it raw right away and... just wow. Personally I think was the coolest episode of the entire series and a great way to end everything. 10 out of 10 I say.

As soon as Rena said she didn't want for Keiichi to follow her, that she wanted all that sweet stuff, I decided that SOMEHOW it would all turn out good...

and then the building would blow up. As we never got to see, I don't know if that happened but ah well. I was also wondering how the sparks flying during the whole fight didn't set off the whole place.

Regardless, this was great beyond words, for me at any rate.

And also, even though I haven't been here that long, not even a whole week, not nearly long enough to read everything, I want to second Chibi Faerie's thank you.

keke

2006-10-01, 02:22

So what was with the maggots dropping from Rena's neck? The real maggots, not the blood ones. Did it mean anything or was it just 'supernatual magic'?

It seems kind of odd because there was quite a bit of importance shown in them. An answer like 'the wound in her neck got so bad and her hanging out in a dump got in infected by parasites' seems too simple. Unless having the maggots there was purely just for creeps.

Garet Linegod

2006-10-01, 03:31

(oh and btw, for game players, when DID 彷徨いの言葉は天に導かれ play? It wasn't the fight was it? >_<)

It was actually. It starts the moment when Rika saves Keiichi's ass when he was going to be killed by Rena, leads into Rika's famous line of 「遊んであげるわ、おいで鉈女」, and from there all the way till the final scene of the rooftop battle.

DingoEnderZOE2

2006-10-01, 04:28

For those who are curious check out the fight between Keichi and Rena with the Original BGM from the same fight from during the game:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Abqj3W44Ikw

Wacky

2006-10-01, 04:37

Non-game anime watcher here. When I finished watching this episode I thought "That's... it?" I certainly hope that

I can't cure your thirst
because the truth that you expect isn't there

isn't the truth...

But looking at this thread it turns out that the animators just left out the true ending. I enjoyed reading the TIPS and Poems by Sushi-Y et al much more than I would have had I just read a summary. Thank you Sushi-Y et al!

Isn't there a Higurashi manga? Will it cover the last two arcs?

As for the series itself, I think it would have been the best anime of the year if the animators of one of the Haruhi's (Suzumiya or Fujioka) had taken it up. But it wasn't, and well..

MarthX

2006-10-01, 05:09

Someone should go through all twenty-six episodes and replace DEEN's music with the game's. That would be an interesting project.

Supergrunch

2006-10-01, 06:39

I really liked that that episode... If the game is so much better, then I can't wait until I play it...

Thisguy

2006-10-01, 06:48

For those who are curious check out the fight between Keichi and Rena with the Original BGM from the same fight from during the game:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Abqj3W44IkwNope, MODer applied wrong BGM for that one and he says so in the comment, although written in Japanese.
(彷徨いの言葉は天に導かれ is the BGM used in scene from Rika's headbutt to K's disarming the bomb)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm9NSTSH1LI
This is correct one, which features 見えない何かに怯える夜 - this theme was also used in watergun fight, obviously to give fights the same atmosphere.

Deathkillz

2006-10-01, 07:53

the start of this ep caught my attention O.o
rena has completely flipped...i though she slashed into mion's head but good thing it was just the back of the blade...but shit she was brutal
up to the part where k1 falls for rena's trap i began to piss myself O.o
the fight was bloody insane and i really loved the touchy end to rena's evilness...so k1 was able to change the end this time...
question: did the story reset again at the end to focus on rika this time? O.o wht does this mean? it cnt be a parallel world cause rika remembers everything from previous events...would it be a time loop? gah its soo confusing >.<
anyway amazing ep and really good end...its been a while since i had such a good conclusion to a series :D

edit: oki after reading the tips it shows that everyone dies again through the gas disaster thing...dam those bastards...they should give k1 and CO. a bloody break...id guess the will always all die then :heh:

Nork22

2006-10-01, 08:38

Well watched the last episode, and enjoyed it quite a bit. Now then, I've pretty much read about 40ish odd post before I had to stop myself from spoiling the game's story too soon so I'll avoid everything in this thread (and the game spoilers thread) and read up all the TIPS, and await to pick up the PS2 port. :D

Supergrunch

2006-10-01, 10:12

Isn't there a Higurashi manga? Will it cover the last two arcs?
Yes and yes.

raikage

2006-10-01, 11:32

edit: oki after reading the tips it shows that everyone dies again through the gas disaster thing...dam those bastards...they should give k1 and CO. a bloody break...id guess the will always all die then :heh:

If we didn't read the TIPS, we wouldn't have known that. :heh:
We also wouldn't have known that Rika would die again in a horribly mutilated fashion.

If not for KJ, Lostblue, and SushiY, we wouldn't have known that there are in fact two more arcs; two more chances for Rika to find the perfect ending where everyone lives the entire sequence happily ever after (except for poor Tomitake).

There were some things left unexplained, like just what the heck happened to the note and the syringe/marker Keiichi left behind the clock all the way back in the first arc, what made Tomitake (and then K1) claw his own throat out, but as endings go it wasn't too bad at all.

imac2much

2006-10-01, 12:01

Technically 5 arcs right... won't the ps2 game have 3 new arcs instead of Matsuribayashihen? (Not counting the new arcs in manga since those are side stories with different characters)

Grey

2006-10-01, 12:34

Haaah, so it's finished. This episode seemed decent to me, although the aftermath of the battle (with the implied reset) could have been done better. Plus I'm a KeiichixRena fan, so this arc was gold to me.

Given the potential awesomeness of this storyline, I suppose I'll have to go digging for the manga and game now....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm9NSTSH1LI
This is correct one, which features 見えない何かに怯える夜 - this theme was also used in watergun fight, obviously to give fights the same atmosphere.Wow, the music fit quite well up to the battle's end--I was quite impressed. I especially like the music switch when Keiichi promised to believe in Rena's beliefs and follow them through if she won. Awesome stuff.

White Manju Bun

2006-10-01, 13:09

Nice, I love when possessed Rika calls Rena, cleaver girl XD

Im still so confused by this anime so now its time to read all the TIPS!

I was still thinking Rena was gonna kill Kei, I was waiting for it but instead she had a mental break down.

Kisuke06

2006-10-01, 13:22

Well, the anime is over now. This last episode was very good, it's a shame that the 2 last arcs aren't going to be animated.

Well, now I have to read the TIPS for this episode and then read the "Your Qs for Higurashi Answered" thread.

BTW, I would like to thank kj1980, Sushi-Y and LostBlue. Without the TIPS higurashi wouldn't be the same, lucky that these guys decided to translate the TIPS. :)

narutosace16

2006-10-01, 14:49

Well the anime is finally over *in corner crying*. Man I wish the series would have been longer, but alas that isn't possible. Oh well. I guess I am pretty satisfied with it overall. I wish I knew Japanese so I could read the sound novels. Maybe when I get older. Being 16 sucks. I cant buy the novels let alone read 'em. Need to make a mental note and remember to buy games when I leave the "nest".

Well enough about me....Overall other than the really bad animation in some parts it was really good. The mystery kept me on the verge of my seat throughout.

A lot of the posts complained about the music not going along with the anime. Then I thought to myself, "There was music?". Have to rewatch and pay special attention to that.

I give this anime 10/10 as it skyrocketed to favorite anime ever. Past Mai-HiME and Suzuka. Really glad that DEEN decided to pick up the project and make it into an anime.

A special thanks to the wind crew for subbing it. Also a big thanks to Sushi-Y, kj1980, and LostBlue for translating all of the TIPS and not spoiling us too much. Now I have to find another series to look forward to every week. Oh well...

BakaOnna

2006-10-01, 15:19

I can't cure your thirst
because the truth that you expect isn't there
Is that what the last scene with the Higurashi no Naku Koro ni logo and END said? I was wondering what the kanji read.

kj1980

2006-10-01, 15:35

For those who are curious check out the fight between Keichi and Rena with the Original BGM from the same fight from during the game:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Abqj3W44Ikw

Like I said, the anime's selection of music sucked compared to the original music in the game... I'm sure the anime would've gotten at least several better points from the fans if they had used the original music.

Supergrunch

2006-10-01, 15:41

Is that what the last scene with the Higurashi no Naku Koro ni logo and END said? I was wondering what the kanji read.
No, if you're thinking about the same thing as me, it says "This story is fictional" or something like that. There was the same message at the end of every episode, it was just sometimes cut off.

-EV-

2006-10-01, 17:53

I give this anime 10/10 as it skyrocketed to favorite anime ever. Really glad that DEEN decided to pick up the project and make it into an anime.

Now I have to find another series to look forward to every week. Oh well...
Exactly my thoughts. Even when the animation was pretty inconsistent, the overall package is all kinds of awesome.

A special thanks to the wind crew for subbing it. Also a big thanks to Sushi-Y, kj1980, and LostBlue for translating all of the TIPS and not spoiling us too much. Indeed, you guys rock so much, thank you all for everything T_T

aliensporebomb

2006-10-01, 21:14

Oh geez.

Did anyone think the battle was pretty great? Especially the end where

Rena goes into dere-dere mode and it was surprising how it all ended.

LOTS of unanswered questions. Lots of them. But enough were provided
to kind of get a feel for what was happening:

Anyone see the American movie "Groundhog's Day" with Bill Murray?
It was like a macabre take on that concept.

FatPianoBoy

2006-10-01, 22:48

Anyone see the American movie "Groundhog's Day" with Bill Murray?
It was like a macabre take on that concept.

Exactly what I was thinking. I hereby declare this anime's officially unoffical title to be Groundhog no Naku Koro ni.

IceBurner

2006-10-01, 23:51

Nope, MODer applied wrong BGM for that one and he says so in the comment, although written in Japanese.
(彷徨いの言葉は天に導かれ is the BGM used in scene from Rika's headbutt to K's disarming the bomb)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm9NSTSH1LI
This is correct one, which features 見えない何かに怯える夜 - this theme was also used in watergun fight, obviously to give fights the same atmosphere.

Both of those songs have less dramatic impact cinemawise than what was present in the animation. They're far more appropriate to an action game, or perhaps to emphasize the intense action in a primarily text-based medium with nearly-still images. The animated version has little need for "boss music" and its choice of BGM serves to emphasize the tragedy. In my humble opinion, this works better for the film format.

Still it would indeed be interesting to be able to compare the whole series with the original game BGM. Once scene does not a series make.

Alu

2006-10-02, 04:08

It ended.. :(

As I here sit in my chair chewing a pen cap I think to myself... what a Great! story has this series brought me.., and it sadens me that it ended prematurely to its full conclusion..

Not only because of all that was still left un-answered.., the thrill of various possibilities / speculations, but also because I (we) will not get to see it unfold along with all the characters we came to care and love for..

But looking back.., I am already beyond thankfull for all the joy this story has given me until now, hence.., there is realy little to regret :)

Speaking about the episode now...

I always had the feeling from the start ( since I've heard that 2 of the answer arcs where beeing left out : Minagoroshi-hen & Matsuribayashi-hen ) that Meakashi-hen & Tsumihoroboshi-hen would definitly Not answer all the questions & aspects that all the previous arcs had given us...
This not because I had played the game or read anything about it.., just purely based on past Anime serie experiences as alot here can relate too aswell...

Hence.., it did not surprise me that this episode was more or less purely just a conclusion of the last one; specialy for those of us who had read the TIP's..
(What I came to the conclusion after seeing 25 + TIP's (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=691215&postcount=88))
But all and all it was a conclusion none the less.., a conclusion regarding as to how the Higurashi universe revolves.., and Rika's role in it..
This having been when the episode ended.., the last final answer we got to see.

But even still I have to agree..., without the TIP's.., many, and specialy myself would have been at a compleat lost.., possibily on this situation and on many others..
So.., from a non-gamer's point of view, without the TIP's it would have been virtualy impossible to follow the story in its FULL detail as far as have gotten to see it here.

Luckly for us.. there is A.suki ;) , and why.., from what I read here.., everyone who had acompanied the TIP's got more or less a good conclusion of the end, as did I aswell.

Going a bit more in-deep to the episode now..

Soundwise, and like I have been reading.., it seems it lacked something on some crucial moments I agree.., but that has happened throughout all of the series..
Unfortunatly I have no idea how the Game's music's are.. so I cannot compared.., but analysing the Anime one's.., they Did have a good background & composition.., it just.., felt the Tempo needed to be faster..

Specialy in the Keiichi vs Rena fight..., I mean.., I loved the music.., but it felt so slow.., hence.., not making it compleat out of place in my prespective.., but just.. could have been improved..
As to many other previous moments aswell..

As for the animation.., well.., I've always seen Higurashi as having a slightly "diferent" animation the most of the series that where beeing aired during the the time as it was..
But notice when I say diferent here..., its not as in worse.., it is in as more.. "unique".., since all the artists have they're own style..

And altough many did not like it.., I found the changes of attitudes very well done in the characters.., even at the times where they where extreamly exagerated..
I simply saw them as ways that could be used emphasize the said attitudes.., hence I was rarely dissapointed on this subject.

Even though yes yes I know.., many times they (possibly due to the budget) where forced to produce a relatively more poor design..

Speaking about special moments on this episode now..

Well.. without a doubt the Keiichi vs Rena scene was definitly the highlight of the episode.., but not only this.., the way it unfolded and we got to see just how Great Keiichi realy is..
As in.. the way he was able to make Rena fall into herself in order to be able to realise her own mistake...

The conclusion thereafter was very well done aswell..., when Rena falls into herself and asks where did things start to go rong as she cried..., plus not to mencione Rika's expression as content that she had finaly found a way out..

All wonderfully done in my prespective..

I just wished too that they had placed the scene that I read a few posts back here on this thread, the scene regarding where Keiichi shouts out that they had won over the tragedy..

The way it ended to Rika's monologue realy felt lacking some closure on behalf of Keiichi.., since he was able to remember what had happened in Onikakushi-hen.., and now was the only one who could understand Rika, and why he fought as he did to prevent the tragedy..

That and seeing more of the fight between Rika & Rena.., but I have to say.., when I saw the phrase.. I compleatly understod why Sushi-Y had so much love for it :)

Overall it was a great episode.., compleatly devoted to the conclusion of certain aspects.., but without Minagoroshi-hen & Matsuribayashi-hen there was nothing more that could be done regarding the others.

-
Finaly now.. I would like to give Thanks to the following :

* Everyone here at A.suki for All of they're posts, they're speculations, questions & just regular converse,
* Sushi-Y , LostBlue , kj1980 & all who helped for the extensive work doing the TIP's for each episode,
* [wind] fansub group for providing such Great quality in every episode,
* And last.. to a dear friend (http://forums.animesuki.com/member.php?u=37814) for it was his belief that I would love this Anime that got me to first see it.

- Its thanks to all of this that I came to love this Anime so much as I do.., and it has made Higurashi no Naku Koro ni one of the BEST Stories / Anime that I have had the pleasure to see :)

And the ride is not over yet ^^

"Your Qs Answered here" Thread is next,
There are a couple of speculations that I just goooot to know if they are true or not ;)

Sakura_Igarashi

2006-10-02, 09:46

MarthX

2006-10-02, 10:44

BakaOnna

2006-10-02, 15:34

This has been bothering me for a while but...
http://duessel.animeblogger.net/pictures/screencaps/higurashi4.jpg

Deen must have been really bored. :heh:

Shiosai

2006-10-02, 16:07

Wow, I can't believe I'm doing this. I've browsed this board for a long time, but I just made an account right now because a certain point no one else has addressed is driving me up a wall. ^^'

My video player won't screencap correctly, so I can't provide a picture at the moment but this was the scene. When Rena breaks down and realizes what she's done, K1 tells her she can apologize to Mion. He then says something along the lines of 'It's a good thing we can tell those sisters apart now'. O_o' This just slapped me in the face for the remainder of the episode. Firstly why did he say this out of the blue, and secondly am I crazy or is he referring to Meakashi-hen? Does he also recall those events now as well? If someone can provide a clear explanation of this, my mind would be greatly relieved!
This, right?
http://students.washington.edu/vegita/k1blegh.jpg
Sounds like kind of an inside joke K1 is having with the audience. I mean for all we know, it was really Shion who got hit on the head with the blunt of a cleaver by Rena. :heh:

But anyway, it's not the case that in every chapter Shion is an unknown person by the denizens of Hinamizawa. If you look back to Episode 9 in Tatarigoroshi-hen, you'll notice K1 immediately knew that Shion was Mion's little twin sister and the manager of the baseball team. I'm assuming that once the audience knew of the existence of Shion it wasn't really necessary to keep making a big deal out of it every arc.

Supergrunch

2006-10-02, 16:35

I assumed that was a reference to what they must do in future arcs. (Yes, I am aware Keiichi doesn't understand this)

MarthX

2006-10-02, 17:57

This has been bothering me for a while but...
http://duessel.animeblogger.net/pictures/screencaps/higurashi4.jpg

Deen must have been really bored. :heh:

I think DEEN is going for the world record for worst artwork ever.

Sakura_Igarashi

2006-10-02, 19:46

This, right?
http://students.washington.edu/vegita/k1blegh.jpg
Sounds like kind of an inside joke K1 is having with the audience. I mean for all we know, it was really Shion who got hit on the head with the blunt of a cleaver by Rena. :heh:

But anyway, it's not the case that in every chapter Shion is an unknown person by the denizens of Hinamizawa. If you look back to Episode 9 in Tatarigoroshi-hen, you'll notice K1 immediately knew that Shion was Mion's little twin sister and the manager of the baseball team. I'm assuming that once the audience knew of the existence of Shion it wasn't really necessary to keep making a big deal out of it every arc.

I guess that makes sense now. It just seemed so random though. ^^' I suppose I was so caught up in the moment I took the offhand comment a little overboard.

Pale Sqwish

2006-10-03, 01:21

ima little confused, is this the last episode, or no?

MarthX

2006-10-03, 01:39

ima little confused, is this the last episode, or no?

Unfortunately it is.

aliensporebomb

2006-10-03, 09:30

K1 was just trying to make Rena smile or laugh - to get her out of the
depressed mood she was in. You have to admit, it was bleakly funny.

The worst part about that last section where they are playing the card
game beyond the animation is it made it seem that THEY were playing
cards in such a way that the whole show, all 26 episodes was them
playing a card game and the negative outcomes and such were from
bad moves. That's not the case from what I can see and have heard
from players of the game.

Deathkillz

2006-10-03, 11:52

i was really confusing when they focused on the next day and they are playing cards again...for me i thought it was gona be a happy ending until i read the tips and realised that the whole city got crapped on again! that should have been explained imo

sagematt

2006-10-03, 12:53

The worst part about that last section where they are playing the card game beyond the animation is it made it seem that THEY were playing cards in such a way that the whole show, all 26 episodes was them playing a card game and the negative outcomes and such were from bad moves. That's not the case from what I can see and have heard from players of the game.

Did it really seem that way? :confused:

Nahhh, you are just reading too much into it. And it's highly improbable that someone would think the same, or else we would all be saying: "Wow, that's some very fscked up imagination those kids have there".

Nergol

2006-10-03, 14:21

I'm rather reminded of a friend of mine who, after seeing the Peter Jackson "Lord Of The Rings" trilogy, told me that he was disappointed and was going to wait for a "definitive" film version of "LOTR" to come out. After all, he said, there was so much that was left out from the books.

"Dude", I responded, "if three four-hour-long movies aren't "definitive" enough for you..."

I liked the Higurashi anime. A lot. No, I never played the games. And maybe that's a good thing. I'm taking the anime for what it is, not what is could have been in comparison to something else.

A couple of notes:

An anime is never going to be able to go into the depth that a game or a novel can. That's why games usually make sucky movies. there's an old otaku adage "Game animes are usually about as good as anime games". Higurashi managed to be a great anime on its own merits. Comparing it to the game is pointless.

In an odd way, I think the low-budget animation was actually kind of appropriate. It added to the "low-budget shiny-happy harem show gone terribly wrong" atmosphere of it. Honestly, I can't think of how making Higurashi look as slick as Cowboy Bebop really would have added anything to it.

As for the rooftop fight: it's two teenage kids fighting. It's not Anakin vs. Obi-Wan. It'd be silly if it did look like that.

Yes, there are a lot of questions left unanswered. That's what Season 2 is for.

Whoever it was that compared Higurashi to the Star Trek: TNG episode "Cause And Effect" seems to have been very correct. A list if "time loop" TV shows and movies is on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_loop).

I guess the old saying is true - the two things otaku like most in the world is watching anime and complaining about anime. I just see a lot of "Comic Book Guy" (http://www.punisher-art.com/ajg_cbsg.jpg)-ism in all the complaints. "Worst. X. Ever." Bleh.

MarthX

2006-10-03, 14:31

I don't think they'd put the "end" screen if they were planning to have a season 2. We might get an OVA but I wouldn't hold my breath on it.

Supergrunch

2006-10-03, 15:39

I don't think they'd put the "end" screen if they were planning to have a season 2. We might get an OVA but I wouldn't hold my breath on it.
That "END" message means nothing. It's actually shown at the end of every episode.

MarthX

2006-10-03, 15:52

That "END" message means nothing. It's actually shown at the end of every episode.

Really? I always saw the Genon ad again as the last screen.

Supergrunch

2006-10-03, 17:03

Really? I always saw the Genon ad again as the last screen.
Yeah, on some of the releases it appears after that, but on others it is cut off.

Keiichi no Hibi

2006-10-03, 17:05

The worst part about that last section where they are playing the card
game beyond the animation is it made it seem that THEY were playing
cards in such a way that the whole show, all 26 episodes was them
playing a card game and the negative outcomes and such were from
bad moves. That's not the case from what I can see and have heard
from players of the game.

I... Didn't see anything like that at all even without reading any of the game stuff :heh: And anyway, if you go back to episode 24, the conversation that was going on as soon as the game started was word for word the one that happened in that episode except Chie said "Furude-san" instead of "Ryuuguu-san" which makes it obvious, if it wasn't already, that it was a reset/retake/whatever you call it

Shiosai

2006-10-03, 17:46

Which means they already had the animation for that scene, so they threw in the crappy artwork on purpose? :heh:

Keiichi no Hibi

2006-10-03, 19:42

Pretty much yeah :heh:

I don't think any animation could be THAT bad on purpose XD;

FatPianoBoy

2006-10-03, 22:36

Pretty much yeah :heh:

I don't think any animation could be THAT bad on purpose XD;

Maybe Studio Deen effed up and realized they'd let all the animators have the same vacation days, so they had to get the janitor to fill in the gaps.

raikage

2006-10-03, 23:15

Ayu-ayu

2006-10-04, 13:57

I absolutely understand what you're saying, but my beef in particular is that we've only finished 6 of the 8 stories/games.

We know the story's not done yet.

To spin off the LOTR analogy, it would be like cutting off the movie at the end of the battle of Minas Tirith (the city that was all-white in the movie) and abandoning the final scenes at Sauron's lair.

The story isn't done yet. We've already spent twelve hours watching this story unfold, might as well put in that last hour to see the final conclusion.

Well, to empathize with the LOTR fan in the analogy, it's also a bit like cutting out lots of really good key dialogue (zOMG Eowyn vanquishing the Witch-King, or just about anything with Faramir or Denethor) and leaving out a really important big chunk of the conclusion (Scouring of the Shire...*cries*), but taken to greater extremes, as DE(E)N is no Peter Jackson (who at least delivered amazing stuff anyway)... :heh:

Sinestra

2006-10-04, 19:16

never got a chance to post after i watched it but i loved the ending i loved the whole series one of the best this year if not ever. i wish more animes were as well written and as creepy as this one

Nergol

2006-10-04, 20:49

rai/ayu;

I totally understand where you're coming from. But a standard TV season in Japan is 26 episodes. DEEN doesn't make the rules - it just has to play by them. The two options were:

1) Not show all the arcs, leave a little bit of a cliffhanger, and hope the ratings are good enough to justify another season, or

2) Give horrible short shrift to the arcs, cut out reams of important exposition, and generally make a crappy show, but get everything in.

Generally, DEEN chose the former, which was in my opinion very much the right choice. Yes, the anime did not go as deep as the game, but it couldn't. The formats are different. It just wouldn't work - same as why Peter Jackson couldn't include everything from the LOTR novels in the movies. He would have ended up with three eight-hour-long, extremely boring movies. One format does not translate easily into another. Something has to give. That's just how it is. The fact that the Higurashi anime was good, compelling, and enjoyable says that they made just about the right choices in what had to give way, and where.

Fishbait

2006-10-13, 23:06

.......So I watched it

25-26 just now

And...

Wow

Amazing final scenes for 26, and the end was even crazier :)

So in my wildest insanity...

Is OyashiroRika some kind of "reality fixer" that's trying to make sure all the differnet alternate realities are normal?

And from what I can see from the anime, it seems Takano is the one messing everything up???

That's the best I can come up as an Anime-only person =\ Maybe I should go read some tips...

yakuri-moe

2006-10-19, 21:32

Yes, the anime did not go as deep as the game, but it couldn't. The formats are different. It just wouldn't work - same as why Peter Jackson couldn't include everything from the LOTR novels in the movies. He would have ended up with three eight-hour-long, extremely boring movies. One format does not translate easily into another. Something has to give. That's just how it is. The fact that the Higurashi anime was good, compelling, and enjoyable says that they made just about the right choices in what had to give way, and where.

I completely agree. What one reads from books and what actually appears in the movie screen are two completely different things. There is some stuff that works well in one format only, and some in the other. I don't go listening to music while reading a book, mostly because I don't pay attention to it, I'm busy reading.

For example in Higurashi games, you can see the text changing colors to show the mood of the characters. Complete narrations or thoughts sound cool in the game but are cheesy in the anime (I've read some posts saying sth similar to this).

I'm actually glad the anime doesn't show the last two game episodes, because that way I can get the games and practice my japanese. After all THE original story is the game; what better than getting the ending in its original format? (sorry for the people who won't play/won't or can't buy/are lazy-asses who won't get the ending asides reading in this forum)

Shiosai

2006-10-20, 10:52

LOTR isn't a very good analogy since film audiences have a much shorter attention span than anime viewers. Considering DEEN's track history, the last two chapters would've taken, at most, 12 episodes? That's a 38-episode anime, which is by no measurement considered a long anime series.

I would even suggest that they may finish the series in another season or make a few OVAs. Especially with the way they ended it.

MrZombie

2006-10-20, 11:24

I do have to agree. Deen should certainly make OAVs for the finally two arcs, but I'm almost certain they won't.:sad: :sad:

Klashikari

2006-10-20, 16:35

as i could understand with several comments from gamers about animated arcs according their respective game chapter, both final chapter are way too big to make them as "OVA", or it would the worst squeechy lore compression ever.
they would need a season of 12-13 or 26 for them (preferably 26, avoiding some... butchering for minagoroshi and matsuribayashi).

i don't know how popular was the anime in japan, but it would be a bit surprising if they try to animate the remaining arcs, since there should be an anouncement by the time the show ended (fortunately, the end was open... let's hope some miracle like... kyoAni remake? XD)

Icehawk

2006-10-21, 03:32

With the ending of the anime, I simply cannot see them NOT finnishing this series. It would simply be too, well, wrong.... Hell even Berserk has a more complete ending then this and that is quite startling as I didnt think anything could top that series for incompleteness.

I must say however that I have already for the most part, spoiled myself through searching online (Say what you will, but I have more important things to spend my money on and put my time and effort into and so buying the game chapters and waiting for translations of them is simply not ever gonna happen with me, plus I find the artstyle of the game cheesy and way out of place for a serious and great story such as this IMO. The anime is far superior in that regard atleast and has an excellent style.), however, I do still have a few minor questions that I'd like to see answered and hell being spoiled has only made me want to see the last two chapters animated even more since they would just be so kickass to watch, hell, just thinking about watching Minagoroshi-hen play out makes me all tingly :D .

Khym Chanur

2006-11-04, 04:52

Supergrunch

2006-11-04, 08:30

The 26 episodes of the anime covered the first 6 out of 8 games. They couldn't strecth out the last two games to cover 26 episodes unless they created several "filler" arcs/worlds/chapters, and given how awful normal filler episodes are, filler for a complex and strange series like Higurashi... *shudder* Gah, I don't even want to think about it.
They could do Minagoroshi, Matsuribayashi, Taraimawashi, Tsukiotoshi, Miotsukushi... as taken from the PS2 game, but not animated in that order. If they wanted any more, they could always do Onisarashi and Yoigoshi.

Klashikari

2006-11-04, 09:31

Even if the cops couldn't use their guns because of the gasoline fumes, why didn't any of them try to climb up onto the roof? They could quickly try to find something in the building to act as a shield, then have one of them go up on the roof with it so they can gang up two-on-one on Rena.

Ooishi was forced to pull back their forces, because the school could explode at ANY moment.

I get the impression that that was supposed to be the point (although that point might have been lost in the transition from game to anime, I can't remember). It was a miracle that Keiichi's words were able to get through to Rena. It was a miracle that Keiichi was able to remember what had happened in a previous time-loop. Witnessing those two back-to-back miracles yanked Rika out of her fatalism and gave her the hope that fueled her attempts at really forging a happy ending in the nex time loop.not really : as we could see in tsumihoroboshi-hen, rena was not that frenzy. also she got enough time to realize what she was doing with her friends.
keiichi was under a rush of stress : his paranoia was fast and furious, rather being slow and reasoned like rena's paranoia.

the fact that Keiichi could stop rena was indeed a huge improvement and cheer rika up, since one of the 3 rules was defeated.

Hee! Yeah, I loved the contrast between surface fluffyness of the show and the horror underneath. "One guy with four cute girls, playing games and getting into arguments, la la la la-- HOLY SHIT!!"i don't think the contrast comes from the "low budget" point, but the character design itself.
with some work, the animation could be smoother, the colours could be brighter etc.
not to mention that we could avoid thoses "ZOMFG, UBER DISTORSIONNED FACE, AMARITE?".
seriously, it is just like it was said on this forum, we could compare it with minagoroshi poem, especially this :

The third time, disgust is overwhelmed into painfulness.
But by the seventh time, this all becomes a farce comedy.

3 memorable scenes :
-Shion with the ladder (ep. 7 & 21)
-Shion using a whip against her onibaba (ep. 19)
-Rena smashing Mion's head with the reversed edge of her cleaver (ep. 26)

The 26 episodes of the anime covered the first 6 out of 8 games. They couldn't strecth out the last two games to cover 26 episodes unless they created several "filler" arcs/worlds/chapters, and given how awful normal filler episodes are, filler for a complex and strange series like Higurashi... *shudder* Gah, I don't even want to think about it.trust us... the game is so full of stuff that the 2 last chapters would be able to cover 26... (minagoroshi prologue is itself enough to cover like 5 whole minutes...)

raikage

2006-11-05, 00:37

The 26 episodes of the anime covered the first 6 out of 8 games. They couldn't strecth out the last two games to cover 26 episodes unless they created several "filler" arcs/worlds/chapters, and given how awful normal filler episodes are, filler for a complex and strange series like Higurashi... *shudder* Gah, I don't even want to think about it.

There are 8 games, total.

Maybe if it had been spread out 4 in the first season, 4 in the second season?

But that would require a commitment to two seasons in advance, so I can see why they didn't go that way.

I'm about to embark on the manga.
After buying the only volume Kinokuniya had in stock (Onisarashi-hen, vol 2), to my dismay, the manga has no furigana.

Wish me luck... :uhoh:

Fallacy

2006-11-05, 03:29

I'm about to embark on the manga.
After buying the only volume Kinokuniya had in stock (Onisarashi-hen, vol 2), to my dismay, the manga has no furigana.

Wish me luck... :uhoh:

What about not having volume one? :eyespin:

And here's something which I thought made the situation so much more comical.
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/7859/1159409515197wa7.th.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1159409515197wa7.jpg)

The Bloodlust Kid

2006-11-14, 04:33

I finally watched the whole series and I must say, as a whole this series was impressive.

The most impressive chapters were Onikakushi and Watanagashi as they did something horror movies fail to do for me in the past few years: creep me out enough that I can't walk outside at night alone.

I do enjoy puzzles and this definitely was a good one.
I bet that if this gets really popular, Hollywood would probably just rape the whole thing?

Question about the games. Is it even possible to get something near a "Game Over" since I keep hearing that (damn I forgot his name, the police officer in the 4th arc) has high chances of dying.
I'm just wondering how much interactivity is involved. If it was something like Phoenix Wright, perhaps there's a chance that it'll be brought over to the states? *shrugs* Oh well.

Klashikari

2006-11-14, 10:24

First, keep in mind that the "game" is in fact a Visual Novel, meaning you are simply reading text, and you hear the BGM, sounds and you see the BG and the characters CG.

you don't have any choice to do at all (except for 1 tips, but it doesn't change anything at all)

you can consider it as a simple novel, with pictures and sounds.

so in fact, there isn't really a game over, except if you consider it as a "failed" June 1983.

there is no interactivity at all. so you are in fact reading each chapter one after another, and meanwhile, you are probably creating your own theories according the information you got from each chapter.

willem113

2006-11-27, 08:28

This was perfect.

Rena was totaly insane witch i liked very much.
and then Keechi calmes her down at the end.
making one of the beter endings i have seen in a while.

But it also left an opening for a second season of Higurashi.

i loved the whole serie and only reveiling some things at the end letting speculate most of the other things.

David Johnston

2006-11-28, 19:46

FatPianoBoy

2006-11-28, 23:20

Frankly, looking at some of the other fansubs I've been sampling over the past couple of months, I think there are some pretty bloated expectations of animation quality when people denounce the Higurashi anime for being so terrible. When I see things like Assaulting Angel, Happy Seven or Mahou Something Arusu, it seems clear to me that it could in fact have been worse.

Seconded. Animation is second to story and character development, anyway. Except for a couple scenes in Meakashi-hen and that one at the end of Tsumihoroboshi-hen, I didn't think the animation was lacking at all, but stayed pretty true to the game, which also had a fairly simplistic art style.

Mueti

2006-12-26, 13:23

I can also second what's been said about the animation; in fact, I quite liked it.

But Episode 26...it was more like meh...
It didn't feel like the rest of the series at all, every bit of the gloomy mood was gone (well, apart from Rena's sickening grin). And, as everything started to repeat all over again anyway, there was no need for the totally unconvincing happy ending of that arc. It seemed like they just had to end the series (or at least the season) with that episode without having any idea how to do that; and that's exactly how it turned out. Everything ended in a rush...Rena was persuaded so easily, it was just ridiculous. To me it was a very disappointing ending for what until then was a great series.

But since it's not the actual ending of the story and season 2 is planned there is still hope. ;)

EusebioKun

2007-06-11, 01:30

*bump* (just finished it)

1. Found it kinda odd how after Keiichi defused the bomb, the kids came flooding out of the windows (when their hands and legs were bound less than a minute ago).

2. The bomb defuse was cheesy.

3. I don't really see how Rena's repentence has to do with the storyline, after all that last episode was the climax of the series, seemed to me to be the climax of the arc considering the last few minutes of the season were committed to Rena. I wanna know Higurashi details! not more support info on chars!

4. The adult enforcements could have stormed the place the second Rena was disarmed of her lighter. But they didn't.

5. How did Rena not hear Keiichi when he was blabbing his mouth off to the police through the device they gave him?

6. If there was such a fear of the place going up in flames any second, how were there sparks coming from Keiichi's and Rena's battle?

I think my main beef with the last episode is the lack of realism (as some of my points locate) and the lack of answering most (at least some more) questions that people have been wanting to find out for the past 25 episodes grr! I thought there were 2 Rena's running around so when did the parasitic version of Rena pop up in the ep? never? how does the mechanics of the parasites hosting the body play into the ep and do they have any air time at all?

I realize that a second season is being planned but still I don't regard the wrap up given as kosher for great storylines (which is what Higurashi has).

Holistic questions that I wanted answered:

Is Oyashiro real?
What type of connection does Rika have with Oyashiro? I know that she is the most acquainted with this "thing," so is she therefore the Oyashiro like someone on the boards suggested.
The only way for the story not to be reset is if the kids solve the crimes and destroy the curse? If the crime is not solved it is reset?

FatPianoBoy

2007-06-11, 02:09

*bump* (just finished it)

1. Found it kinda odd how after Keiichi defused the , the kids came flooding out of the windows (when their hands and legs were bound less than a minute ago).

2. The defuse was cheesy.

3. I don't really see how Rena's repentence has to do with the storyline, after all that last episode was the climax of the series, seemed to me to be the climax of the arc considering the last few minutes of the season were committed to Rena. I wanna know Higurashi details! not more support info on chars!

4. The enforcements could have stormed the place the second Rena was disarmed of her lighter. But they didn't.

5. How did Rena not hear Keiichi when he was blabbing his mouth off to the police through the device they gave him?

6. If there was such a fear of the place going up in flames any second, how were there sparks coming from Keiichi's and Rena's battle?

I think my main beef with the last episode is the lack of realism (as some of my points locate) and the lack of answering most (at least some more) questions that people have been wanting to find out for the past 25 episodes grr! I thought there were 2 Rena's running around so when did the parasitic version of Rena pop up in the ep? never? how does the mechanics of the parasites hosting the body play into the ep and do they have any air time at all?

I realize that a second season is being planned but still I don't regard the wrap up given as kosher for great storylines (which is what Higurashi has).

Holistic questions that I wanted answered:

Is Oyashiro real?
What type of connection does Rika have with Oyashiro? I know that she is the most acquainted with this "thing," so is she therefore the Oyashiro like someone on the boards suggested.
The only way for the story not to be reset is if the kids solve the crimes and destroy the curse? If the crime is not solved it is reset?

Not really spoilers in the final episode thread...

1. Satoko untied them?

2. Yeah... :heh:

3. It has a bit to do with the overall mystery, actually. Remember K1's sudden recollection of Onikakushi? Similar.

4. No, they couldn't. They had no way of knowing if Rena had another method of activating the explosives. They'd be raising the risk of the explosion and needlessly endangering themselves and the children further.

5. Law of Hollywood Earshot: characters can only hear and will always hear speech intended for their ears. Otherwise, they are Helen Keller impersonators.

6. They were outdoors, where the fumes quickly dissipated.

Other stuff:
Lack of realism? In a show about homicidal lolis, government conspiracies, a world that resets like an eroge after a bad end, and a Shinto deity that may or may not exist, you're worried about the fact that a kid who was busy on a telephone couldn't hear seeds of treachery being sown ten feet away? :eyebrow:
Fortunately, there is only one Rena. Otherwise they may team up and take all the cute things in the world home with them, leaving us with nothing.
Watch the whole arc again for more on the parasites. It's there, but I guess you missed it. Also, read the TIPS.
Is Oyashiro-sama real? There's another season on the way which will explain this and the reset conditions, so I'm told.