Rozen Maiden - Q & A

[NightWish]

This thread is for those with questions about the Rozen Maiden anime and manga. Please keep discussion about episodes in the relevant threads, the purpose of this thread is to ask questions that can actually be answered as facts from the anime or manga.

Make sure you use spoiler tags if your question is about the anime or manga (or any non-anime source). Untagged spoilers are risking a ban. If you don't know how to use a spoiler tag, please read this FAQ (http://forums.animesuki.com/misc.php?do=bbcode#spoiler).

Spoiler Tag ExampleDon't forget to use a title for the spoiler!...becomes...Don't forget to use a title for the spoiler!

[Lost]

~
The Rozen Maiden Community FAQ
~By RM fans, for (prospective) RM fans


Section I Introduction

History and purpose of this FAQ, as told by Alu


Section II The Series

What is Rozen Maiden ~Ouverture~?

Must I watch Season 1 before watching ~Traumend~?

Is there Fanservice in Rozen Maiden?


Section III The Rozen Maidens

What are the Rozen Maiden Names and Meanings?

Why did Rozen create 7 Unique Dolls?

How did Shinku Change her Perspectives to the Alice Game?

Shinku's Fictional Obsession

Who is Kirakishou?

More on Barasuishou


Section IV The Characters

Who is Jun and how does he develop?

Who is Laplace no Ma?


Section V The Rozen Maiden Universe

Rozen and Alice, 7 dolls, 7 failures? - An Introduction to the Alice Game

What are Rosa Mysticae?

What are Maestros, and who are they?

What are N-fields and Dreamworlds?


Section VI The Fandom

Rozen Maiden Fanaticism

[Alu]

Introduction :

Allright, I and a few others are starting here the process of re-assembling all the Important information that currently can be found on the Rozen Maiden ~Träumend~ (Season 2) (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26342) Thread ; information this related to the Questions & Answers on several aspects related to this Anime.

This will without a doubt be a very extensive re-assembly task, for as everyone knows the "Rozen Maiden ~Träumend~ (Season 2)" Thread is one of the more extensive threads that can be found here on A.Suki.

Hence, it will take some time to gather & make the connection between all the posts which I figure contain relatively Important aspects to questions that we are left with even after having finished Season 1 & Season 2 of "Rozen Maiden"

Starting off :

I figured this would be the ideal way to start the process; since it is also a Topic in which many people are still not compleatly informed about.

Rozen Maiden ~Ouverture~

-
" What is Rozen Maiden ~Ouverture~ ? "

" Will there be a Season 3 for Rozen Maiden ? "

" Is ~Ouverture~ only related to Suigintou's past ? "
-

* First in order to asnwer these questions I would first like to direct everyone to the following Image :

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/1310/rozen12kk6.th.jpg (http://img60.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rozen12kk6.jpg)
And as you all can now see, this image relates to an article in Megami magazine about the upcoming Rozen Maiden OVA ; giving the us conclusion that there Will be a new Rozen Maiden related Animation.

- Please now click on the following link for the full Translation of the article :
http://www.rozen-unyu.net/prelude.html

* Now given all of this, in order to answer more aspects :

Currently this is all the information we have on ~Ouverture~, but still it is more then enough to lead us to towards the conclusion that this OVA will definitly be a Prelude to Rozen Maiden ~Season 1~

And it will not focus on Gil alone either.., its contents will show us the reason as to how and why Gin "drifted" apart from the other Rozen Maiden.., and to why the hatred she feels towards Shinku as we came to see in ~Season 1~

But most importantly.., and I hope I am right on this.., it will give us some in-sight on some un-answered aspects related towards Rozen and to the "Rozen Maiden" in general.

~Ouverture~ however its NOT a 3rd Season.., but it is an OVA in the end.

I belive they chose to place this as an OVA partialy because of its content.., since we are going back in the timeline of the story to unveil certain un-answered aspects..., it realy wouldn't make any sence IT beeing a 3rd Season.

The End of ~Traumend~ was inconclusive yes.., so there is definitly reason to wait for a 3rd Season.., ~Ouverture~ just is coming first to give us a better in-sight of the "entire" story..;
- Think of it as just another piece of the puzzle you need to add before you start finishing the final parts.



- As soon as more information is known, then I am sure that A.Suki here will create a Thread for it on the "Current Series" section ; meantime.., I aswell as everyone here will without a doubt do our best to keep the updates up-to-day regarding it.

Once ~Ouverture~ ends.., "possibly".., and after waiting 1 more year we then might be presented with the Conclusion of the Story in its 3rd Season.., taking back from where ~Traumend~ left off.

For now.., I hope this is enough to answer your Questions on this subject :)

[Alu]

The Rozen Maiden names & what do they mean.

Why have the Rozen Maiden Japanese names if they where created during the Victorian age in Europe ?

- All of the Rozen Maiden names are actualy in German ; altough we can Only assume that they "are as such" for having been created in Europe. (no more specific information is given to us on this)

The names we saw in the Anime are simply & just the japanese translation to what her names originaly mean in German.

Here is they're correct meaning from Japanese - German - English :

-

Suigin Tou : Mercury Lampe ( Mercury Lamp )

Shinku : Reiner Rubin ( Pure Ruby )

Hina Ichigo : Kleine Beere ( Little Strawberry )

Sousei Seki : Lapislazuli Stern ( Lapis Lazuli Star )

Suisei Seki : Jade Stern ( Jade Star )

Kanaria : Kanarienvogel ( Golden Wisp Bird / Canary )

Bara Suishou : Rozenkristall ( Rose Crystal )

-

[Lost]

Must I watch "Season 1" before watching ~Traumend~?


While not necessary if one understands the events that happened in Season 1, it is nonetheless highly recommended that one watches Season 1 before moving on to ~Traumend~.


The reasons being:


It is hard to understand (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=476349&postcount=562) ~Traumend~ if you have not watched Season 1


Both seasons of Rozen Maiden are essentially continuations in plot from each other, thus missing out on Season 1 will mean missing out huge sections of plot.


Rozen Maiden is a series that primarily focuses on character development, and skipping Season 1 will deprive one from being familiar with the characters; not to mention the interesting character development of Jun and Shinku.


Its the opinion of some posters that ~Traumend~ was duller than Season 1, which was also more enjoyable and funny. Many found Season 1 more compelling then ~Traumend~ was.


Season 1 has Suigintou as the main villain AND it has the stairwars episode (:heh:)


It is guaranteed that ~Traumend~ will have a much bigger impact if one watches Season 1 first.

Last updated 15/10/2006

[Chiisa]

I know this might sound a bit strange, but if the 3rd season of Rosen Maiden is coming out at the end of the year, will this sub-forum be moved to current series?

[Lost]

Fanservice in Rozen Maiden?

~Topics~

" What is Ecchi? Ero? "

" Is there fanservice in Rozen Maiden? "

" Sadomasochism in Rozen Maiden? "

" Are there Ero-Doujins of Rozen Maiden? "

" Where can I get Ero-Doujins of Rozen Maiden? "


-
" What is Ecchi? Ero? "
-

It'll be useful to get right the definitions of some of the terms used here; tho most of you may not need much introduction. (:p) Ecchi, (from the Japanese エッチ etchi), is applied to anime or manga that has vague sexual content (such as skimpy clothing, partial or full nudity), but does not show the act of sexual intercourse. This is not to be confused with Ero, which is used to refer to anime and manga that includes explicit sexual content.


-
" Is there fanservice in Rozen Maiden? "
-

The following contain minor spoilers to Rozen Maiden Season 1. It's okay to proceed as these events are not plot-centric.

On Nori's dream.

The dream being referred to here was shown in episode 10 of Season 1, and we can make a good guess of what she was dreaming about from her talking aloud in her sleep. In it; she specifically calls out to Jun and from her tone it appeared that she dreamt herself being in a compromising situation with her younger brother. Here is what she says:

"I can't Jun-kun! We siblings!"

It is exactly disturbing because those words taken in context implies incest; more so because it possibly is reflective of Nori's desire. Most disturbing would be its randomness. Rozen Maiden did not start out to be one of those series, and it definitely was not a harem-type.

As one poster rightly observed, it was so random it appeared to have come from nowhere. To this day it is not known why that scene was included, nor was it developed further in Season 1 or ~Traumend~; unless this incident causes you read too much into Nori's later (apparently normal) dealings with Jun and the way she speaks of him. Come to think of it, Nori was much more caring with Jun than a normal sister should be ~ but more likely this is attributed to her sister complex and Jun's hikkikomori state.

More on Suggestive References by Nori before and after episode 10
[Ziv]

In the very first episode, after Jun recieves Shinku in her case, Nori asks Jun if Shinku is a "foreign Dutch Wife (http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2857/rmxk8.jpg)". For those not sure what Dutch Wives are; read what Nori had to say in the Manga: "Jun-kun, is this that...one of those things with certain...correct parts?" (Italics ours) Later in Rozen Maiden Traumend, Jun returns with a book on the dolls (which he attempts to hide) and Nori tells him that it's perfectly normal for boys his age to be interested in "those sorts of things."

On Jun kissing a doll.

Another occurrence was the Snow White scene, which very interestingly also occurred in episode 10. As the "prince on a white horse" in Nori's play-practice only he could wake Snow White by kissing her. Its obvious the light shed on what he thinks of his relationship with Shinku by the way he reacted to that, developing an obvious blush and going loco: screaming that he couldn't kiss a doll - and really, embarrassment speaks the loudest (:heh:). In the end, he doesn’t, and Shinku walks away sounding offended.

On Jun seeing the dolls in underwear.

This also occurred in episode 10. While stumbling into the dolls in the midst of undressing (http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7915/snapshot20061014024521bmphx2.jpg), Jun stared for awhile, and as Hina aptly put it: "Jun was very red all the way to his ears." Later alone in his room, Jun cannot get the image of them out of his head. His heart pounds, even tho they are dolls; and he says: "I can't allow myself to get so excited!"

While seemingly suggestive of sexual innuendoes, especially in the light of the rest of the events in episode 10 which one poster noticed had to be more than coincidence, it must be pointed out that (1) nothing really indicates for sure that he would be turned on by them due to the fact that he doesn't seem to be the average perverted male lead in a anime, instead seeming to have all the interests of a "normal" boy and (2) RM does not contain the attributes of an ecchi fanservice anime, and in context with the rest of the episode Jun would more likely be embarrassed then turned-on.

Perhaps explanation for this is given later. As Jun sews Shinku's dress, he constantly peeks at her, especially at her joints. When Shinku questions, it would seem then that Jun's initial reaction stems from him forgetting that they were "all magically enchanted dolls for a while." Perhaps he was so intend on them being real that when he stumbled in on them he immediately thought he would see something he wasn’t supposed to see.

However, we will never likely know if he initial reaction to the dolls undressed was out of embarrassment or whether he was simply turned on; maybe it was even a mixture of both, seeing something forbidden, yet realising that it wasn’t really that way, being as they were dolls (man one needed to reach deep into his psyche for that).

In fact episode 10 was as far as the series got to developing Jun's overall *physical-like* relationship with the dolls, most especially Shinku; a bit of 'testing the boundaries' as it were, perhaps establishing what he thought of them. (At the end of episode 10 Shinku kisses a sleeping Jun :love:)


[kj]//Another reference occurs in ~Traumend~, Jun in the toilet for a looong time with a magazine; really, it is up to the viewer to surmise what Jun was doing, whether ecchi or not.


-
" Sadomasochism in Rozen Maiden? "
-

It was pointed out by one forumer that the Lyrics of Kinjirareta Asobi hints at the practice of sadomasochism, the practice of obtaining sexual pleasure or gratification by having pain or suffering inflicted upon one's self or inflicting such-like. Lines that seem to suggest this include


Put on the collar of roses, and bite upon the silver chain

Another one will die tonight--you are despicable

Kneel down and lick the bitter drops of love

Torn wings revive in the moonlight and grow wet

Under the Cross, let us indulge in the proof of our union

Taking off the rose handcuffs, and holding each others’ white wrists

Kneel down and offer the painful words of love

Even if it’s a sin, say that you love me with your forbidden lips

A black marriage decorated with tears
However; masochistic choice of words aside, the lyrics seem rightly to represent the realities of love: bitterness, pain, freedom from bondage, sex, and so on. In anycase, however the reader may choose to interprete this, it is noted that there are no such dark references existing in the series itself; and thus the lyrics should be rightly kept to the OP.


-
" Are there Ero-Doujins of Rozen Maiden? "
-

Yes, to this writer's dismay, there appears to be. Many.


-
" Where can I get Ero-Doujins of Rozen Maiden? "
-

:upset: Crawl back to the den you came from you Ero Perv Freak! No one (save KunKun) can have smex with a doll!! :upset: cough*http://www.rozen-unyu.net/*cough for good translations of Rozen Maiden Doujins. None are explicitly ero, just ecchi.

Last Updated 25/02/2007

[Alu]

7 diferent Dolls.

The following Answers contain several Spoilers.
Its best adviced for those who have not seen compleatly Rozen Maiden "Season 1" & ~Traumend~ to not click on the spoil tags.



-
Amongst many un-asnwered questions after having watched both "Season 1" & ~Traumend~, this particular one is pretty easy to follow.
- Question this beeing :

" What was the process that lead Rozen to create each doll so diferent then the other ? "
-

* However, while one thing we all agree is that, he did so in hope / search to obtain Alice , the process that lead to this can be somewhat speculated into many diferent opinions..

Hence which is why I chose to quote the following exert my good friend Lost wrotte at the time :


Diversity. I guess thats the name of the game. Just like in nature, Conjugation in bacteria facilitates propagation of genetic variability so as to ensure diversity, thus increasing survivability in harsh environments, and from competition etc.

Rozen probably felt that having all this variation would increase the chances of having his perfection found. "Let me toss this sugar, spice, and everything nice (and evil) into this boiling cauldron, roll them around and we'll see what gets cooked!"

Which makes me wonder, why didn't he just include all those on ONE doll?? Maybe he didn't want to create it, he wanted it to develop, almost evolve, on its own.

, which unfortunatly.., despite beeing good speculations on the subject, ends up mixing a few concepts.
-

So now, let us now analyse the process in order to reach a more apropriate conclusion :


- Diversity yes.., as we can all see, all the dolls have many diferent aspects from each other.
Despite the fact though that we could sometimes pair-them in terms of level of "perfection" achieveded; like Hina+Kana / Gin+Shinku, etc ; it still makes each have they're own "unique" caracteristics, specialy when it comes to personality aspects.

However now.., it is assumed that the road chosen by Rozen in order to achieve Alice was not as long-term planned like quoted in the excert.

And what this means is...

Rozen from the start wanted, or wished to created the perfect doll, Alice ; we assume his desire was not to create several dolls and then give them the chance of one day becoming Alice.

- Suigin Tou beeing the First doll created by Rozen, but as we all know, Failed to become Alice ; not exactly because she was incompleat, but more due to that Gin seemed lacked compassion & several other emotional aspects...
..Aspects these that.. forced Rozen to try again.

This beeing of course, not the original plan Rozen had in mind.., but since his first creation failed to achieve his goal, he then decided after to try diferent prespectives while creating the next doll as in hope that he would then succed in reaching Alice.

Allas.., it was not to happen aswell, despite having changed several aspects in each of the dolls he created as an atempt to create Alice.., all had they're own flaws and imperfections.

Yet in the end he probably realised that each would complement each other.., specialy if they learned to grow emotionaly; which then lead him to belive that even though they came out as imperfect and flawed to Alice, one day one of them could eventualy become her.

Thus, Rozen ended up not beeing able to achieve his goal but instead he was able to create 7 very distinct unique dolls.

It is a fact, all of the Rozen Maiden when it comes to Alice are simply just flawed atempts.. ; but even as so and like we saw when Jun asked Enju regarding this aspect.
Enju replied that.. " without Love they could not have been created. "

So, even having failed at Alice in the begining, Rozen still loves them all.
-

[NightWish]

will this sub-forum be moved to current series?Not really the sort of question this thread was intended for... but yes. If there are current releases of the show this section will move under "Current Series Discussion".

[Chiisa]

Not really the sort of question this thread was intended for... but yes. If there are current releases of the show this section will move under "Current Series Discussion".
Sorry I wasn't sure ^^;; But thanks for your answer

[Alu]

Shinku.
The change of prespectives..

The following Answers contain several Spoilers.
Its best adviced for those who have not seen compleatly Rozen Maiden "Season 1" & ~Traumend~ to not click on the spoil tags.


-

At the very begining and during the course of ~Traumend~, we notice that there is a accent in Shinku's personality ; this beeing something that gives us the in-sigh of a diferent look as to how her personality was during "Season 1".

However some even after having finished ~Traumend~ are still left wondering what where the reasons behind her change of prespective..
Hence now, we shall look and try to understand better the following aspects :

-

" What was the trigger that forced Shinku to change her ideals ? "
" Did Shinku realy gave up on the Alice Game ? "
" And if so.., did Shinku gave up on wanting to become Alice aswell ? "

-

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/7518/shinku12cb9.jpg
-

~ Again, it is advised that the viewer has seen at least "Season 1" in order to comprehend the following. ~


- After having defetead Suigin Tou, Shinku became filled with guilt & remorse.. , for she then saw in Gin a much more pure feeling to become Alice then the one she had.., and was unable to prevent her demise..;

..Something that, she herself ironicly was responsible ; which even consumed her more inside..
(And is also the reason why she did not take Gin's Rosa Mysticae in the end.)

However her conscience could not let go of those final moments, those moments where she could have made the choice to prevent it all..

Hence, her guilt & remorse where by the first episodes of ~Traumend~ eating her inside so much that she could no longer even fight another Rozen Maiden (as we saw when Bara provoked her, & Shinku compleatly froze) without seeing Gin's reflection in them..

So.., needless to say Shinku was steps away from "breaking" inside..

After ~Traumend's~ episode 6 though..., once Gin appeared in her N-Field and she realised Gin had been repaired , her happiness for having her sister alive again was so much that she could not contain her tears..
In which she then apologised for everything.., including possibly.., even for events we are yet to see in ~Ouverture~.

Hence, after having cleared that weight off of her conscience and seeing that her sister was Alive again , she on ~Traumend's~ episode 7 reveals a much happier attitude.. ; so happy that in fact everyone else notices the change.

However.., this entire experience made a Extreme & profound impact on her self-persona..

- Currently the only way that the Rozen Maiden where aware to achieve "Alice", was through the Alice Game.. , which would imply that all would sooner or later have to suffer the same fate as Gin did.., except one.
And Shinku.. well.., because she was now aware of how rong this was, she could no longer take part in it.

For the love of her sisters..., she at then that time chose not to become Alice, for she did not want anyone else to perish.

In fact.., when confronted by Sousei Seki about why she would not fight when everyone was provoked by Kanaria, Shinku said those exact same words.

"I do not want anyone else to go away..., I just want things to be like they are now"

Thus.., making it safe to assume that she at that time.., clearly did no longer care about becoming Alice.., not like this.

However as we know, it was inevitable that she would be forced to Fight yet once again.. ; but this time Shinku ONLY chose to do for the sole purpose to Stop the Alice Game instead.

In the end though.., it was only after all of this, upon meeting with "Father" are hearding the following words :

"Dream of becoming Alice once more. For there are other ways.."

That she then Only here started to once more seek to achieve this Dream.
-

[Alu]

A fictional obsession.

-
So what's your opinion on Shinku's obsession with Kunkun?
-

- As some may know, one of the funniest aspects of the "Rozen Maiden" Series is that within the story itself, we are presented with a fictional doll character who stars in his own detective TV show.
This character of course, beeing no other then " Detective Kun Kun ".

- Of what we now know related to the Time of which most of the Rozen Maiden last awoke s still very unclear, however there are several indications that both Suigin Tou and Shinku had fought each other somewhere during the years of the World War II.

Hence we assume that during this time, they did not get a chance to observe Television.
Which is why now, having awoke in "Our" present Time, they became somewhat obsessed with it ; for it was something they had not experienced before.

However it is not by chance that such happened, for it is in fact thanks to / and because of Kun Kun that they became so fond of it.

But why Kun Kun you ask ?

- Kun Kun's Story revolves arround very simple aspects, beeing these most of the times on how Detective Kun Kun foils the evil cat's plans over & over again ; however in the end it shows us that Kun Kun is a keen-eye detective which always makes the smartest choices and is able to solve every crime through well thought out means and brilliant deductions.

Hence naturaly someone like Shinku (who sees herself as beeing Very inteligent & perspective) would gravitate towards him in terms of personality.

The reason for all of this is that it was in fact the perfect match.., having Shinku found someone who she admires for having all the qualities that she wishes to have ; added to the new experience it all was aswell.

So in other words.., Shinku became a fangirl, plain and simple :p ; actualy to the point even of speaking to the television as if she thinks that Kun Kun can hear her.
- Which realy show us she just loves & admires the entire show and its contents THAT much. :D

Naturaly the show catches on.., and for some reason too, most the rest of the Rozen Maiden seem to be drawn to it.

-

* From our prespective now.., it is assumed that the Main reason, and why it is in fact such a humorous aspect of the series.., is that it simply consists on the Irony of dolls watching a show starring a doll. :heh:

In fact.., Kun Kun's popularity became so big that "Peach-Pit" (the Rozen Maiden series publisher) actualy made a Special OVA related to it.

The Detective Kun Kun - "Duell Walzer OVA"

- This 7 minute OVA is in fact a Full Detective Kun Kun episode ; and it portrays watching a Detective Kun Kun's show from a Rozen Maiden doll's perspective.

[solwyvern]

Kirakishou - 雪華綺晶 ► Snowdrop Beautiful Crystal


So who is Kirakishou? Kirakishou was shown for but a fleeting moment at the end of
「Rozen Maiden: Traümend」.
Please be not confused with Barasuisho who is similar in appearance.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4503/barakiraxd2.jpg


Kirakishou Barasuisho

Kirakishou is the true seventh doll of the Rozen Maiden. Her costume is different from that of her imitation, Barasuishou, and she has a rose in her right eye, whereas Barasuishou has a mere eyepatch covering her left eye.

Her first appearance is in volume 6 of the manga, which is as mysterious as Barasuishou's first anime appearance. In the anime, she has yet to be properly introduced. According to her, the seventh doll lacked a physical body and could only exist in the N-Field. She therefore destroys and consumes Hina-Ichigo in order to be able to materialize in the human world. It has also been shown that although Kirakishou could not initially materialize, she could still affect real world events, such as when she gives a rose ring to the granddaughter of Corinne, Hina-Ichigo's former master. Kirakishou's strongest personality trait is her obsessive admiration of Suigintou, whom she refers to as "Onee-sama" (older sister), and to whom she has offered her Rosa Mystica... although Suigintou refused it, saying she would take it herself later. Much about Kirakishou remains unknown.


http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/3444/untitled1ze9.jpg

At the early episodes of [Rozen Maiden: Traümend], we have been made to believe that Barasuisho was the 7th doll made by Rozen, ... but later on it is revealed that Kirakishou is the true 7th doll.

Barasuisho was a mere copy, by Rozen's apprentice, Enju. Yet, regardless, it appears that Barasuisho was indeed the strongest when compared to the other Rozen Maidens, but she was incomplete.

With regards to this, we can only begin to fathom what Kirakishou may be capable of.

[Alu]

Bara Suishou.

The following Answers ( despite some aspects beeing based on Speculations ) contain several Spoilers.
Its best adviced for those who have not seen compleatly Rozen Maiden "Season 1" & ~Traumend~ to not click on the spoil tags.




-
" Who is Bara Suishou ? "
" Is Bara Suishou a Rozen Maiden ? "
" Does Bara Suishou have " a personality " like all of the other dolls ? "
-

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1415/bgvgn2rp1.jpg


In order to help comprehend these aspects ,
Here now follow some exerts taken from the original Rozen Maiden ~Träumend~ (Season 2) Thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26342) :

-
~ On Bara Suishou.. ~


Enju hasn't shown the ability to create living dolls. Bara Suishou is a fake Rozen Maiden i.e. a doll that appears to be alive but she is not.


Altough this may be true to a certain point, it is not compleatly accurate.

- Bara Suishou, as it turns out, is Not the seventh Rozen Maiden, but the copy of one instead. However she Is still alive.

It is assumed that altough beeing considered a "Fake" in the end, Bara Suishou's purpose was Not to become a Rozen Maiden, but to become a doll who would Surpass the Rozen Maiden ; those of which created by Rozen.

At the end of Rozen Maiden ~Traumend~, it is revealed that Enju is not the man known as Rozen or "Father", but a jealous apprentice of his who sought to eclipse his master's art.
To this end, Enju had created Bara Suishou to destroy the Rozen Maiden and become the Perfect doll, acomplishing then what his master could not, to "reach" Alice.

Bara Suishou in fact does succeed in obtaining all the Rosa Mysticae, but as she is not being made by Rozen, she fails to contain the Rosa Mystica and falls apart.

Kirakishou, (the original seventh doll) is then revealed toward the end of ~Traumend's~ last episode; however her purpose, motive and role remain unknown.

-
~ Bara Suishou's persona.. ~

I find it funny how Bara copies the phrases of those who had said them before. Like, "Whos there?", "Reveal yourself" when Gin first encounters her in the N-Field for example.
Could this be a negative side effect of Bara a *copy* doll? Since she was not made by Rozen or is this simply an aspect of Bara's personality :confused: : imitating people :p

- Some say it Is her own personality.., others say its lack of it..

I myself strongly support the "its her own personality" speculation.., Bara herself does have a force of will, and the ability to take decisions.., its just.. , she is binded (by her own points of view) on most.

To Bara all that matters is to make "Father" (her Father.., Enju) happy, and the way to do that.., is to prove that she is superior to any of the dolls Rozen (Enju's master) had made.., which then eventualy leads.., what better way for such then for "my doll" be the one who achieves "Alice".

Through out ~Traumend~ we could see little signs of Bara's own personality on some episodes.. ; but specialy on episode # 12 , as where when she loses control (for fear that Shinku had escaped) and shouts out at Jun with all the Kristalls asking.. "WHERE'S SHINKU !!"

And another for example is the final moments between her and Enju.. , with her smiling to him after having defeated all the Rozen Maiden.. , and last her tear of sadness when she realised the Rosa Mysticae where going to destroy her and she failed into becoming what her "Father" always wanted.

To Bara Suishou it is clear that These are the facts that matter the most to her.. ; hence it is pointless (in her point of view) to exchange any further dialogue with any of the Rozen Maiden, or anyone else in fact..
So in the end.. , she just limits to "imitate" some of the phrases as a responce to whom made them.

Pure and simply , its just a very calculative & cold aspect of her personality when towards the means to achieve her goals ; which is what makes Bara exactly what she is :)

-

* Also on a final note.

It is assumed that what truly diferenciates Bara from all the Rozen Maiden.., is in fact the process as on how she was built.. ; clearly Enju knew alot of how Rozen created the Rozen Maiden, and is without a doubt a exceptional Maestro aswell...

However, he failed on something (something that some say it was the Rosa Mystica that Bara did not have of her own).., which then inevitabily lead to her self-destruction when she atempted to achieve "Alice".

-

[Lost]

On Jun and hikkikomori.

~Topics~

" Who is Jun-kun? "

" Why doesn't Jun go to school? What's hikkikomori? "

" Why is Jun in such a sorry state? "

" How does Jun develop in the series? "

" After episode 12 of ~Traumend~, does Jun suck or not? "

" Is Jun financially better off after meeting Shinku and gang? "



-
" Who is Jun-kun? "
-

Jun (lastname: Sakurada) is the lead character in the Rozen Maiden anime and manga. In the course of the series, Jun's already messed up life is further turned upside down by the intrusion of the Rozen Maidens, starting with the fifth doll of the Rozen Maiden series: Shinku. He is cold and rude, and indeed, appears arrogant and indifferent to the feelings of others. Although he does not seem it; we soon find out that he is exceptionally skilled at sewing and cloth-crafts...

-
" Why doesn't Jun go to school? "
-

Jun is a typical hikkikomori. Hikkikomori literally means 'pulling away, or being confined.' The name is used to describe people, usually adolescents (tho not limited to a particular age group), who choose to withdraw themselves from all social interactions, including those with family members, and instead seek extreme isolation. Jun certainly fits such a description. The indifference expressed towards his sister Nori; his resentment towards his absent parents; the hermitage he keeps, locked up in his room; his addiction to the thrills of ordering junk over the Internet; and the way he reacts furiously whenever the word School is brought up, all point to the fact that he isn't your normal teenager.

As well as being a hikkikomori; Jun can be said to be suffering from tōkō kyohi (登校拒否), or school refusal; that is, simply a condition in which emotional distress (fear or anxiety) towards school prevents one from attending school. In Jun's case, his fear of attending school stems from the fear of meeting school-mates who might have previously known/heard of him. This also prevents him from leaving his home. Such provides a clue as to a cause for his self-isolation, which will be elucidated upon in the next heading.


-
" Why is Jun in such a sorry state? "
-

The following contain spoilers to the last part of Rozen Maiden Season 1. It's advised for those who have not watched beyond episode 11 of "S1" not to click on the spoiler tag. Remember, its always more enjoyable to find out for yourself! :)

In the manga it's hinted that Jun does not have a self identity. Early on, we also see that Jun's worry stems from something that happened in School.

It is later revealed in the anime that Jun failed/did not complete an important exam. Central to this is the fact that he was a top student in school; proud and overconfident. The most probable interpretation is that stress and social pressure got to him, contributing to his fall. This fall was not easy for the formerly proud student to take, and it left him with a feeling of shame, disgrace and self-loathing: ultimately leading to his self-isolation.

-
" How does Jun develop in the series? "
-

The following contain spoilers to much of Rozen Maiden Season 1 and ~Traumend~. It's advised for those who have not watched both seasons completely not to click on the spoiler tag. Remember, its always more enjoyable to find out for yourself! :)

We find out early in the Anime and Manga that Jun is more kindly than he seems.

~~
At first, even though acting a tad cowardly at the death threat of Sugintou, he unexplainably uses his sewing kit to piece back the Clown who attacked him. Later, he finds himself curiously affected by HinaIchigo's pitiful crying for "the food she loves best." Knowing exactly what she wants makes him uncomfortable, and this makes him do the previously unthinkable: leave the house searching for an open Daifuku store. Yet still, he doesnt want to admit what he did; when back he tries to escape the fact that he did something selfless by displaying a furious veneer.

As season 1 progress, other more subtle developments occur. He becomes more appreciative of his sister Nori whom before then he treated like dirt. He starts to eat at the dining table. Slowly, slowly, he spends more time out of his room. In fact, the inward strength of Jun is hinted at by the almost limitless amount of power he supplies Shinku, such that she can outmatch Suigintou - admittedly one of the most powerful dolls.

Jun's conflict with school and his hikkikomori self reaches its climax in his dream world. Faced with desks and loads of papers that would drown him; he overcomes his nightmares to join Shinku and aid her fight. He goes as far to reassure Shinku when she loses her arm. And fittingly symbolic, he defeats the mire/sinking sand to retrieve Shinku's arm; at the end, his dream world starts to clear, with golden rays of sun reaching thru the clouds. The maturation of Jun in Season 1 culminates with him taking a leisurely walk down the street for the first time; and with some determination, not minding the curious stare of his school mates.


~~
In ~Traumend~ such development continues. Jun prepares for School entry exams, even studying in a public library. He is more willing to interact with humans, we find him walking back with Tomoe and holding conversation with Shirosaki and Enju.

Its obvious too that Jun loves the dolls now. In the earlier fights with Bara, Jun shields Shinku with his body. Jun provides emotional support to Shinku, helping to ease her load regarding the appearance of all 7 sisters. Although at first hurting her with his quick words, he later comforts her with the Musical box. He becomes Suiseiseki's medium, and notably, he goes out of his way to build to cheer Suiseiseki up after her sister's demise. Still, such things do not occur without some irate scolding/screaming at the dolls but at this time we all know he means no harm. Also too, no longer does Jun try to hide it when he does something thoughtful; for example, buying the musical boxes for the dolls.

He thoughtfully sends Hina back to Tomoe before she sleeps forever. He cries for Enju to stop the doll's fight, and realising the cruelty; berates Rozen for making daughters that love him suffer.

At the climax, his moral sense comes to the fore when Shinku prepares to strike Bara. Screaming out to stop Shinku from killing that would be regretted, whereas the Jun we knew at the start of Rozen Maiden didnt appear to have much morals.


~~
It can be said that one of the themes, if not the main, of Rozen Maiden is Jun's mental/social recovery as an outgoing social individual, a school-goer and a responsible younger brother through his interaction with the dolls.His adventures frequently require him to come face to face with his fears, and thru the dolls; whether acting directly or acting indirectly as a catalyst to his determination; the hurdles of his tōkō kyohi complex are slowly overcome.

Although his recovery is more apparent thru the big conflicts; we find that the most recovery comes from subtle, not so obvious areas. Simply interacting with dolls; talking with them, finding out their traits, their duty to Father, their fears, joining them in their tribulations; in other words, coming to love them and feeling the need to protect them, help to mature him to a responsible and caring individual. That Jun becomes matured in such a way becomes obvious in episode 12 of ~Traumend~ where Jun meaningfully stops Shinku from killing Barashishou in cold blood. Its the personal belief of this writer that such unnoticed interactions are really the main force behind his change.

~ + ~~ ++ ~~ ~~ ++ ~~ ++ ~~ ~~ ++ ~~ ++ ~~ ~~ ++ ~~ ++ ~~ ~~ ++ ~~ ++ ~~ ~~ ++ ~~ + ~

///It is also revealed (more so in S1 than ~Traumend~) that Jun not only is skilled in sewing-crafts but has special ability to bring back the souls of the lost ones; dolls with no more identity of their own. Shinku remarks on his fine seams; and later, gasps that only a Maestro, someone with Fathers ability, can do such a thing. Shinku even allows Jun to sew her dress later, in one of the more touching Jun x Shinku scenes. Most shockingly, at the end of Season 1, Jun returns Shinku's arm to her joint with a mysterious thread from his medium ring. Yes, for the first time, he heals a Rozen Maiden.

More information on Jun as a Maestro is provided in the following post.
-
" After episode 12 of ~Traumend~, does Jun suck or not? "
-

This was an interesting dicussion sparked between grey_moon and Spectrum in the early days of our 3xx thread; right after the happenings of episode 12 ~Traumend~. This writer hopes to present an unbiased neutral recounting of the Discussion. Any further discussion should be carried to the Rozen Maiden ~Traumend~ thread

The following contain spoilers to the ending of ~Traumend~. It's advised for those who have not watched till episode 12 of ~Traumend~ not to click on the spoiler tag. Remember, you can always join the discussion after watching it for yourself! :)

This discussion focused essentially on whether Jun was to blame for Shinku's death.

As you should know (if you don't you shouldnt be reading this; TURN BACK NOW AND WATCH IT) Jun stopped Shinku from killing Bara, in the process, distracting Shinku and leaving Bara the opportunity to send a crystal spike through Shinku; which she took with a most pleasant smile.

There are two main opinions in this discussion. (1) Jun did the right thing by stopping Shinku, even if that meant her Death, and opposing that,(2) Jun did the wrong thing in stopping Shinku, because that would mean her death. At this point, the fact that Shinku got rebuilt is irrelevant because Jun would have no way of knowing that it would happen.

A first argument in favour of (1) is how Shinku would have felt like if she did kill Barasuishou out of anger. Definitely, she would feel scarred and ashamed. No matter whether she died or not, if Shinku killed Bara then we and they would only know that Shinku killed Bara for revenge, which would be so un-Shinku like. Indeed, it would be tantamount to Shinku betraying herself; which would just be making her entire effort of the whole season to have been a lie of a hypocrite. Jun did a right thing in stopping her from becoming like Bara.

Counter argument is given in the favour of (2), saying that Jun had a choice between Shinku winning, but feeling pretty terrible about everything; and Shinku going back to her pacifist self and getting stabbed in the gut by Barasuishou. The OP felt that if he were in that situation, he'd rather choose a live, emotionally scarred Shinku (who can recouperate someday) then a dead Shinku. Yes, a distraught, changed Shinku with whom Jun could rebuild the rest of their lives was preferred over a dead Shinku.

(1) was then supported by then saying that it was not entirely Jun's fault because he would not have anticipated that Barasuishou would do the point blank stab. This was sarcastically shot-down by the following post:

Yeah, it's not like Jun could have known Barasuishou was a murderous rampaging doll who only wanted to become Alice by killing off Shinku. It's not as if he had a previous encounter with her while other important things were going on. It's not as if she, while having difficulty walking around, was only looking for Shinku and calling her name. It's not as if she snapped and attempted to skewer Jun with a crystal burst, even if seems to be poor form in the series to threaten someone else's medium.
Basically, since Jun met Bara one on one and saw her actions throughout the series, especially the cold way in which she destroyed Suiseiseki and Kanaria, he should have known that Bara would probably take advantage of Shinku's pacifism.

However, in favour of (1), it was replied that tho likely; there was no sure way to know until after the event that Bara was going to impale Shinku.

It ends by shifting the blame to Bara. "If Bara decided to win at all costs then how is that Jun's fault?"
-
" Is Jun financially better off after meeting Shinku and gang? "
-


Before Jun met Shinku he used to waste his money on trying to buy cursed dolls. He brought a stupid amount, but sent them back to get a refund. I would guess he kept a few and would have to pay for p&p.

After meeting Shinku we can see that the cost of food has increased dramatically, lucky he doesn't need to pay for broken windows etc. But in S2 if you look on "Shinku's shelf" you can see she has built up a fair collection of Kun Kun stuff, including what looks like a DVD collection and of course the Kun Kun detective kit.

Now since Shinku has already pointed out that her servant's possessions are hers and hers are her own I'm pretty sure that's Jun's cash that was used to pay for it.

So IMHO he is far worse off financially (but better of spiritually) now then before.

Conclusion, in the past he spent money trying to buy cursed dolls and now cursed dolls spend his money...


Last Updated 10/10/2006

[the.Merines]

On Laplace no Ma

Just wondering, who is Laplace's Demon? I don't quite understand after watching the anime.


Laplace's Demon (voiced by Kyousei Tsukui), also lovingly referred to as the "Bastard Bunny." Who is this mysterious character?

"Laplace's Demon" is another mathematical reference in Rozen Maiden, like N-Fields. Pierre-Simon Laplace (1749-1827) was a French mathematicial and astronomer. He believed in causal determinism; that is, every single event is caused by an unbreakable chain of previous events. These events could, therefore, be determined ahead of time. Thus, Laplace's Demon was born.


Laplace strongly believed in causal determinism, which is expressed in the following quote from the introduction to the Essai:

"We may regard the present state of the universe as the effect of its past and the cause of its future. An intellect which at a certain moment would know all forces that set nature in motion, and all positions of all items of which nature is composed, if this intellect were also vast enough to submit these data to analysis, it would embrace in a single formula the movements of the greatest bodies of the universe and those of the tiniest atom; for such an intellect nothing would be uncertain and the future just like the past would be present before its eyes."

This intellect is often referred to as Laplace's demon.

Basically, Laplace's Demon is a possible entity which would comprehend all possible forces and items composing a situation, as well as have the computational power to handle all such data. This intellect would then be able to deduce any and all possible outcomes for all situations. It would not predict the future, but simply know it. It is referred to as a "demon" because no human could possibly be so intelligent or create something with such intelligence.

Stepping away from the literal meaning, we turn to Mr. Bunny. Appearing only in S2 of the anime (though first appearing at the very end of manga Volume 1), it seems true that he knows the future of the Rozen Maiden. He often speaks in riddles, perhaps to give some kind of diluted warning to those who would decypher his words. His place in the Rozen Maiden world is mostly unknown, but he seems to guide the dolls towards the Alice Game. He was probably created or discovered by Rozen but operates independently of him.

In the anime he appears in the real world as the "Enju Doll" shopkeeper, Shirosaki (voiced by Takahiro Sakurai). Shirosaki actively shows a love for dolls and appears generally kind and outgoing towards Jun and Tomoe when they visit the shop. He even allows Jun to watch Enju at work as he creates a doll.

His true form as the tuxedo, top hat wearing rabbit-man appears in the N-Fields. His appearances are usually brief, not helping our understanding of the character. Though he seems to provide support to Enju and Barasuishou throughout most of Träumend, during the false Alice Game he leaves Enju's side. Stating that his time of amusement was over after the dolls were all destroyed, he gathers up the Rosa Mystica.

At this point it is proven that Laplace's Demon is not all-powerful or a God. He cannot fix the broken dolls; Rozen does. In a scene which caused a lot of speculation, not only on the characters but also in a chance of continuation, Laplace's Demon is seen floating through what looks like the corridor between dream worlds, two Rosa Mystica (Souseiseki and Hina-ichigo) in hand. With him is also a serene, smiling Kirakishou. Whether this is further confirmation that Laplace's Demon is Rozen's "right-hand man" or not isn't clear.

These are all the facts we really know about Laplace's Demon. Hopefully you feel a little enlightened now, even if we don't yet understand his true place or motives.

[Alu]

Of Rozen and Alice... ; 7 dolls, 7 failures.

The following Answers ( despite some aspects beeing based on Speculations ) contain several Spoilers.
Its best adviced for those who have not seen compleatly Rozen Maiden "Season 1" & ~Traumend~ to not click on the spoil tags.



-


First of all, in order to better comprehend this, let us not forget that all of the Rozen Maiden, as Shinku said it herself.., are Failures ; Failures in what was suposed to be Alice.

It is assumed that Rozen wanted or hoped to achieve Alice in everytime he -created a Rozen Maiden ; but as we know the story.., when Gin was created she lacked many aspects and thus beeing the 1st to fail as Alice.

Such an outcome surely then forced Rozen to try once more, and once more, and once more.. but as more as he could try all of his dolls seemed to lack something that would make them compleat..

However in the end upon finishing his 7th doll.., Rozen probably realised that even though all of his 7 creations fell short from Alice.., he ended up with 7 unique dolls.., each devoted of her own personality's, prespectives, atitude and will.

But allas, all had something that the other did not.. ; ( and that is also why I specificaly belive that Rozen then first decided to set them free and only act as a spectator ).

Rozen probably saw that each could complement each other.., hence the union of all 7 would result in Alice ; however he could not simply destroy them as in to unify them and obtain the Alice he seeks.
And we say this because.., it is one of the most important lessons we are shown in ~Traumend~ regarding on how Jun's feelings are as Pure as Rozen's and where Enju falls short of them.

Jun belives that every doll, even having been created as a failure has something inside that makes her perfect, which is probably the same feeling that Rozen has and why he did not destroy his beloved creations even after he failed on his objective while creating them.

To Enju however even though he placed the same amout of love into all of his dolls, he would still destroy those that ended up as failures.., and his desire for his only creation to surpass those of others showed us that he has clearly not the same feeling towards "all" dolls.

- The Key in becoming Alice is for one to understand what is right and rong, to each herself learns what is missing inside ;
Hence the Alice Game beeing a catalyst to a matter of where choices come into play, and that is what it is all about; choices.

Through the Alice Game many had learned the downside of they're choices, when upon seeing the true motives of what drove all the others into making they'res aswell.., and allas those who have fallen where I guess.. destined to do such in a way.
- Upon making certain choices you cannot go back.

It is a harsh way to show each doll the effect on how her choices and prespective have in the end I agree.. , but all in the end have grown much more phsycologicaly and are now closer to Alice then ever before; which is was Rozen always desired.

However I am sure that he mourns for the losses.., but like I previously said.., the choices they made had somewhat destined they're fate.., and it is why he will not restore them.

It is known that the Rosa Mysticae seems to be the more or less the very essence or Soul of each doll, however we now become wondering if in order to become Alice one does need to obtain all 7.

Alice is the Perfect Beeing, a Girl devoted of purity and perfection , so naturaly if each Rosa Mystica englobes all the aspects of each Rozen Maiden , and since they alone are Failures but together complement themselves.. ;
It would be natural to assume that if one gathered all 7 Rosa Mysticae, she would become Alice.

However.., this choice would imply taking every Rosa Mysticae from her sisters.., and even though it may be a true possibility to become Alice.., it is not what Rozen wishes in the end.
- Beeing his last lines in ~Traumend~ the best source to support this reason.. :"There are other ways to become Alice"

Hence.., Rozen does hope that one of his dolls reaches Alice.., not through obtaining everyone else's Rosa Mystica, but learning how to become Alice herself.

-

* On a final note now.

Often we have seen speculations regarding about Rozen possibily having created the Rozen Maiden in search of Alice as to resemble his dead daughter.

I have to say, please dismiss this previous possiblity.

Unfortunaly we are not given Any indications that Rozen even had a daughter through the course of both series ;
And regarding the girl we see (still in the Victorian age) with Shinku , she clearly does not seem to be Rozen's daughter aswell.. , specialy for if she was.. , it would then compleatly dismiss the option as to that "what drove" Rozen to try and acomplish Alice was because his daughter had passed away.

I understand how many can still see this as a possibility, many speculations are influenced on a number of events we saw or witnessed.., and the love of a father for his daughter indeed is able to surpass many barriers.

However.., this is not the case on Rozen Maiden.

- Rozen himself is a "Creator" , he simply and purely wanted to create something Perfect.., the Perfect Girl.
As a Creator, a Maestro... for his love of creating something So Beautiful , So Perfect that it would surpass even the limits of reality, nothing more.
-

[Lost]

Of Rosa Mysticae; Theories of Origins and Roles.

~Topics~

" What are Rosa Mysticae? " -(not to be confused with Art. Spirits)

" How are Rosa Mysticae created? "

" Possession of Rosa Mysticae, and the role they serve "

" Gaining Rosa Mysticae "

" Losing Rosa Mysticae "

" Questions on Hinaichigo's and Souseiseki's Rosa Mysticae "




* Reserved * Incomplete *

[Alu]

A Maestro.

The following Answers contain several Spoilers.
Its best adviced for those who have not seen compleatly Rozen Maiden "Season 1" & ~Traumend~ to not click on the spoil tags.


-
" Who & what are / is A Maestro ? "


-
~ Synopses ~
-

Before we begin let us shed some light on the following speculation :

" Can Jun in fact be actualy Rozen himself ? "
- No.

It is very safe to assume that Jun is NOT Rozen / Father; he is however.. a Maestro.., and the reasons for this is as follows :

Jun had always the hand for crafting work, tailoring in particular.., but he had never heard of the Rozen Maiden, Rozen or was even interested in creating dolls to begin with.
Only upon the arrival of Shinku and all the events that after developed did he begin to become interested in these fields of crafting; partialy due to the fact that he wanted to know how the Rozen Maiden where created.
Thus concluding he did not have any information regarding them whatsoever.

However upon reading this I am sure you are now all thinking :

" wait.., Rozen himself could be dorment inside Jun, just waiting for the time to awaken and become at one with his full potential. " - which in fact could be a possibly.., if the following aspects would not prove it rong...

You see, Jun himself has certanly "hidden" abilities.., which through the course of the 2 seasons we have seen them start to "awaken".., these are the abilities which make him a Maestro, an exceptional person with a certain Gift.

Beeing a Maestro means you can, much like Gin and Shinku said in season 1 :
" be able to repair that which is broken and be able to bring back the soul that was lost " ; amonsgt other aspects...

In the end A Maestro is someone who is able to master the exceptional fields in "creating" a new life (doll); this meaning... Enju is also a Maestro..; and in fact.. he is the best example of what one realy is.

- In fact, let me adress a scene in an episode of ~Traumend~ where Laplace first introduces Jun to Enju.. ; while Jun is awaiting Enju's approval to assist him in crafting his dolls, Enju turns Jun's face and passes his finger in a straight invisible line.
And after this he concludes that Jun is "whorty" to assist.

Leading us to assume that there exists a certain mark on each person which determines if they have exceptional abilities to become a Maestro, such as was the case of Jun.

And.. let us not forget what Enju said to Jun regarding his Hair aswell ; which could be another aspect.. ; however I personaly belive this one was by himself, since we do see Enju rather chooses to use his hair Shorter then Rozen's.

Anyway, giving all of this, it is clear that Jun is in fact a Maestro, but one who has not yet compleatly developed his abilities.

But now you'll probably say :

" why call him a Maestro when he could be A Rozen, as in, Rozen could be defined as a title and not Father himself. "

- Well.. its very simple.., Rozen has to be ONLY one person and that alone has to be "Father"..,
For the title of those who are gifted.. those are refered to as A Maestro, which as it was previously written, share all the aspects in crafting much like Rozen does.

And as we have seen in episode 12 of ~Traumend~, Enju (who beeing a Maestro aswell) refered to Rozen as beeing his Master.
- Which means.. Rozen himself is ALSO a Maestro, but one gifted of extraordinary skills which was able to surpass all others, thus creating such unique dolls..

Altough.., yet failing to acomplish Alice, no other Maestro was able to even equal Rozen's work ; a factor that was in fact the entire reason behind Enju's motives that we saw in season 2.

Finaly but why did then... :
" Gin said that ONLY FATHER could repair the Rozen Maiden. "

- Well.. at that moment we did not have the information that we where given in season 2; information this regarding more aspects about Father and what A Maestro realy is.

Hence as previously stated, Rozen/Father himself is a Maestro.., but even among these gifted people.. he is exceptional.
So naturaly it is assumed that when Gin said that phrase.. she ment it as in.., no other Maestro should be able to repair a Rozen Maiden except for Rozen himself.., because no other had equaled his work, thus.. no other would be able to repair them.

Jun however.. despite not having fully "awakened" yet as a Maestro clearly, much like Rozen shares a Special bond to the dolls and has aswell an Exceptional power inside of him.., which again.. much like Rozen.., makes him stand above all other Maestro's.

Thus.. beeing the only person apart from Rozen who was able to repair a Rozen Maiden; which is why Gin then says.. " has a person with this talent finaly arrived? "

- Compleatly making Jun a unique Maestro.., one which once his skills are compleatly developed, may be the Only one who can follow Rozen's work;
After all.. Enju came pretty close to that.., hence he beeing of a more exceptional class aswell..., but his lack of compassion and dis-regard for any other dolls but his own.. ended up beeing his undoing in a way.

Thus we conclude that one needs to be of pure heart in order to acomplish what Rozen did.., Enju despite his love for his creations had the wish to overcome his master above anything.. and that was sort of a seed which ended up corrupting his creation.

Jun however, even in the begining he did not wish any of the dolls to even fight in the Alice game, which in a way shares the same vision as Rozen did, in which he loves all the dolls.. despite none of them beeing Alice yet.

-
~ Final Conclusions ~
-

* Maestro = title given to "exceptional" people who are Gifted with an extraordinary proficiency & skills upon creating & crafting aspects.
Examples : Rozen, Jun, Enju.

ANY Maestro can repair a Rozen Maiden.., PROVIDED.. they have the same Level of proficiency & skills as Rozen himself.

* Rozen = A Maestro GIFTED of Extraordinary Skills even within those who are a Maestro.
He had acomplished what no other had in terms of creation.., he was able to LITERALLY bring life to his dolls; which because of this.. Gin thought he was the only one who could repair them.

* Other Maestro's = While more gifted of exceptional skills then normal humans in crafting.., when it comes to "creating".., they can only create the Soul's of each work, not Literally bring them to life.

* Enju = A Maestro also GIFTED of Exraordinary Skills & Proficiency, much like Rozen, AND because he was taught by him.., he was the only one that APART from Rozen able to Literally bring Life to his creation.

Bara Suishou altough not beeing a Rozen Maiden, shares compleatly ALL the same aspects as one..
This for having learned from Rozen himself.., Enju was able to create and acomplish a Work that could rival with that of what his master.

- We even supose that by having he such a High level of skill.., much like Jun and Rozen himself.., Enju would be able to repair even a Rozen Maiden, but allas.. his heart lacked purity in a number of aspects, so in a way... he himself became innerly corrupted.

* Jun = Possibly the Only Maestro with Both the Purity and Extraordinary level of Proficiency & Skills to match those of Rozen; altough these currently as of yet not compleatly awaken.

-

[Alu]

Regarding N-Field's & Dream Worlds.

The following Question & Answer contain several Spoilers.
Its best adviced for those who have not seen further then Episode 9 of ~Traumend~ to not click on the spoil tags.


-

In order to help comprehend the said diferences between the two ,
Here now follow some exerts taken from the original Rozen Maiden ~Träumend~ (Season 2) Thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26342) :

-

Question: How is it possible that Gin can enter Shinku's Dream World ? Do all dolls contain that ability ? The ability to enter someone else dream to talk/fight with her ?

I do recall Shinku mentions that every doll has a *world* of its own, more or less like Jun's; so I was wondering since Gin doesnt have either Sou or Sui's Artificial Spirit in ~Traumend~, how can she enter Shinku's world ?


-

* A N-Field is a section of space that is the domain of a Rozen Maiden, and contains elements that are characteristic to the doll it represents; sort of a reflection of the soul (but not a Dream World) as Shinku said it herself on Season 1 upon entering Gin's.

As we know, each Rozen Maiden possesses her own N-Field.., and when inside this N-Field the owner has a certain advantage in power; advantage this.., which can only be overcomed if another Rozen Maiden resorts into using the power of a Medium.

However it seems the N-Field can only be accessed via some objects that have "fragments of life".., such as the old mirror in Jun's storage, altough once inside.. each Rozen Maiden can venture into any sections of the N-Field she willingly desires (such as Gin entering Shinku's on ~Traumend~, Shinku entering Hina's on ~Season 1~)

-

* A Dream World now.., is not compleatly all that diferent..
Much like a N-Field.., it simply is a reflection or better, a Mirror of a Person's Soul, containing elements from old memories or representations of important items.

However, these worlds are all linked together in a Huge Tree; each world is a basicaly a "branch" in this Tree.., and the more closely related two people are, the closer their "branches" are.
Though the enterance to these "Dreams" can only be granted though using Sousei Seki's and Suisei Seki's Artificial Spirits.

Hence.., what we can conclude is.. : what we saw when Gin walked up to Shinku while she was asleep on ~Traumend~, was a Shinku's N-Field and not a Dream World ; this despite Shinku beeing asleep..

A Dream World seems to just be the pure designation to the Soul, in its current state.. , for as we saw near the end of Season 1.., Jun willingly became to change his ;

As N-Field is a region of space in which the creator has placed the aspects of her Soul (on that said time) into it, baring the resemble to the creator's "spirit".

And as we saw.. there are countless N-Field's..

-

* Finaly, to what relates to the Rozen Maiden.. , since they are Dolls after all..they do not exactly "dream", they're souls simply revert to they're own N-Field each time they go to sleep, where they re-live some "special" moments (which are already part of the Field) time and time again.

Hence, from all we saw on both Seasons.., it is safe to say that the only Dream World's that where accessed where Jun's, Sou's Master, and the wife of Sou's Master. The rest.., where all N-Fields.

I understand that it might be a bit hard for some to tell which is which.., but all you need is to pay attention to how they are accessed :)

-

[solwyvern]

Rozen Maiden Fanaticism

Since the outbreak of the anime series known as 「Rozen Maiden」, it has spawned countless fanatics. (As though this sub-forum isn't already evidence of that..)

One such example, and perhaps the most popular one, would be that of Muir Woods a.k.a Humbert Humbert.
He has developed an obsession for Shinku, Rozen's 5th doll.
His pure devotion has earned him respect, even througout 4chan.
Muir Woods has already become an icon for fellow fans of the show.



http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7921/clipboard01dm3.jpg

I do drink tea with regularity. Now, I drink tea with the presense of Shinku. Yes, that is me peacefully drinking Oolong tea with Shinku. I just took this picture last night. Tell me folks, what's beyond obsession? When I spend the bulk of my free conscious mind pondering about Shinku. When I dream about Shinku. When I feel incomplete without Shinku. When my love for her is 100% mental, and 0% lust. I haven't been this deep "into" (past appreciation, past admiration, past obsession) a fictional character since Humbert Humbert of Lolita (who, I take as sort of a role model). I have yet to find the explanation in my psychology lectures.


Shinku, light of my life, fire of my loins. My sin, my soul.
...
I am thinking of aurochs and angels, the secret of durable pigments, prophetic sonnets, the refuge of art.
And this is the only immortality you and I may share, my Shinku.

Her seraphic blue pupils stare pensively into her nearly empty tea cup.
"More tea, Shinku?"
I asked, but those words were merely for superficial formality. I innately understood from her expression that she was willing to accept my hospitality.
I grab the tea kettle and stretched myself over to pour its pale brown liquid into her cup. Her face remains unflinching in the process. I prepare myself. With all my might I fixate my eyes on her. One could slay me there and I would not budge an inch.
A few moments pass, and she became aware that her cup has been refilled. She heightens the cup to her mouth. She then closes her eyes, simultaneously tilting the cup and slightly arching her head to let the essence of Oolong flow accurately into her rosebud lips. Soon she is satisfied and reverses her refined movements. The sculpted ceramic upon landing on her plate emitted a soft "clank". Her air of elegance, sophistication, and grace lingers in the atmosphere. She resumes her wistful gaze into her cup.
I absorbed all that wonder. An orb of tears escapes from my right eye. This is what my heart, my soul, yearn for everytime we meet here in our sanctuary, my sanctuary, at some transcendent dimension of space and time reserved exclusively for us.
I have found my bliss.
My Shinku.




I spend countless hours of my free consciousness pondering about Shinku, in a never-ending effort to increase my understanding of her.

And most important of all is Shinku, who has brought me feelings and joys that I never found in real life or anywhere else in fiction. Every time she smiles my heart experiences a warmth I never experienced in life before. Her elegant way of drinking tea and her air she exudes, is a sight more pleasurable for my eyes than any wonders I’ve seen in on Earth. Her calm voice and words rings angelic to my ears. Other senses are unapproachable outside the realm of my dreams. I realized after much contemplation, I really don’t care if Shinku becomes Alice or not, she is already perfect to me.

Have you ever seen such devotion?
And this, remember, is an obsession for Shinku.
One can only imagine, if she truly becomes Alice.

[RM-FAN]

In the episode 8, Suigintou make mention of the lactum bacilus, only for that time she is represented for the yakult bottles?

[Scarlet Letter]

Simple question, is this "Gin" character the repaired Sugintou?

Also, does anyone know where I can read the manga for the part where Hina-Ichigo is consumed by the true 7th doll?

[Ziv]

Simple question, is this "Gin" character the repaired Sugintou?

Also, does anyone know where I can read the manga for the part where Hina-Ichigo is consumed by the true 7th doll?

no, gin is just short for Suigintou.

[Scarlet Letter]

no, gin is just short for Suigintou.

Damn you people...confuse me will you? <<

[RM-FAN]

I got a good question: Is Kirakishou the real 7 doll or is the soul of Corrine, the grandmother of Odille?

When i think that i feel..........SCARE.......

[Charmmy Kitty]

Yes, I also used to think about Kirakishou...She is truly a sevenh doll

[Flo]

I'm made to believe that Kirakishou may has the abilty to shapeshift/change her appearance and her theme(s) of battle is of a spider.


Upon flipping around volume 7 I discover something interesting during Hina's demise.


http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4509/rozen07024dz2.jpg

At the bottom right of the page you notice a spider web at the moment of Hina's death, signifying that the 'spider had caught its fly'.

If this isn't proof enough. Upon browsing around I found this. This is probably from a chapter beyond volume 7.


http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/605/kiravsshinkuwb4.jpg

After seeing these I can roughly guess how Kira fights. Unlike Barasuishou, who can engage direct combat regardless of outcome, Kirakishou relies on trickery and traps and will avoid direct engagement *unless* she is certained she can win.

Kira would set traps from her opponent (Whether it's psychological/physical/emotional traps is does not matter) and waits from her opponent to fall into it (Kira may also manupilate others to speed up the process). When the opponent was caught in the trap, she would play around with the food before going in for the kill.

This way of fighting can be related to Hina Ichigo's demise. Where Grand-daugther of Hina's fromer medium was used as a trap, causing confusion to Hina and was ultimately consumed by Kirakishou.

[blitz1/2]

I'm made to believe that Kirakishou may has the abilty to shapeshift/change her appearance and her theme(s) of battle is of a spider.


Upon flipping around volume 7 I discover something interesting during Hina's demise.


http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4509/rozen07024dz2.jpg

At the bottom right of the page you notice a spider web at the moment of Hina's death, signifying that the 'spider had caught its fly'.

If this isn't proof enough. Upon browsing around I found this. This is probably from a chapter beyond volume 7.


http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/605/kiravsshinkuwb4.jpg

After seeing these I can roughly guess how Kira fights. Unlike Barasuishou, who can engage direct combat regardless of outcome, Kirakishou relies on trickery and traps and will avoid direct engagement *unless* she is certained she can win.

Kira would set traps from her opponent (Whether it's psychological/physical/emotional traps is does not matter) and waits from her opponent to fall into it (Kira may also manupilate others to speed up the process). When the opponent was caught in the trap, she would play around with the food before going in for the kill.

This way of fighting can be related to Hina Ichigo's demise. Where Grand-daugther of Hina's fromer medium was used as a trap, causing confusion to Hina and was ultimately consumed by Kirakishou.



whoa, Bara and Kira's battle style are opposite. They do make a good team?

[RM-FAN]

Hey Flo ¿can you use this scan how a reference for your next episode?

http://rozen.no-ip.org/uploader/img/rozen00208.jpg

[JaoJao]

i have a question about suigin tou; in the first season of rozen maiden, she had no torso. after she was defeated by shinku and was restored; who restored her? was it rozen? and did she recieve a torso? in the last episode of traumend, it seems as though suigin tou has recieved a torso, can anyone confirm that?

[Choki]

In the first season, Suigintou didnt have a torso, neither did she have 1 during traumend. It was only in the last episode of Traumend did she recieve a torso from Rozen. About who restored her after season 1 (after being burnt by Shinku) it is most likely to be Rozen as well(watch Overture opening).

[_duangelique]

I need translation for this scan...whatever it is, I know is about Alice, and may have some important information...

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/3268/1213qe9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Btw, found really interesting stuff about alchemy related with the names of the Rozen Maiden, and what a Rosa Mystica could be. I'll post it later.

[Question]

Someone explain the Desu thing?

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/8793/desucd0.jpg

[Lost]

Eh... What's there to explain?

"Desu" is something Sui uses alot; it peppers her sentences. It makes her cute; especially in the manner that she says it. That makes her have a lot of fanboys (like me). These fanboys (and some imposters) love using Desu because it reminds them of the Queen of Desu. // if you haven't already done so, watch Rozen Maiden. It's love. :)

[RM-FAN]

I need translation for this scan...whatever it is, I know is about Alice, and may have some important information...

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/3268/1213qe9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Btw, found really interesting stuff about alchemy related with the names of the Rozen Maiden, and what a Rosa Mystica could be. I'll post it later.


The question in that pic, is WHY HINAICHIGO IS THERE? she come back to the life?

[Amaranthine]

The question in that pic, is WHY HINAICHIGO IS THERE? she come back to the life?
Hina was still alive at that point in the manga. It's directly after this that a certain infamous scene takes place...

Anyway, I can't give a translation of that, because I can't read it (Chinese) and I don't actually have it in Japanese. I have read it before though, so I can give you the gist of it. This is where Kira explains why she doesn't have a real body. Basically, Rozen wondered if it was necessary for the dolls to be tied to the physical world, and created Kira from his thoughts/imagination, which is why she only exists in the n-field, without a physical body. Essentially that is all the important information revealed there.

As for the alchemy stuff, it used a really obscure word, "iliaster". I remember it said 「イデアのイリアステル」, literally "iliaster of idea(s)". I don't remember exactly how it was used, sorry, but it was involved in Kira's creation. And looking up iliaster would be better than an explanation from me, so I'll leave that. Also, I was told イデア means the Platonic eidos, rather than the more simple "idea", so I'm not entirely sure what PEACH-PIT were on about if that's what they meant. Or, should I say... I do understand it (after looking up iliaster), but it's such a bizarrely complex concept to add in when most people wouldn't get it, I don't know why they'd do it. Even with it just meaning idea, iliaster is a difficult thing to undersand properly without reading a decent amount about it. I'm lead to the conclusion that the individual words are just there to sound interesting, and it's the overall meaning that matters.So, yeah, this is about Kira, not Alice. (Or at least it's not about Alice yet. >:3) And apparently they do need to be tied to the physical world, because Kira says she can't become Alice without a body.Hopefully I managed to make that somewhat informative. It honestly doesn't say much, though. And an actual translation would be infinitely better, but I thought I'd try to help how I can.

[_duangelique]

Thanks a lot for your help. I have to say, it was really interesting to read, specially for the alchemy part. It seems that Peach-Pit tried to put some concrete basis for the plot, and this are the kind of things that leaves us with questions..that hopefully are going to be solved at season three.
Anyways, I knew it! It truly had something new into it (at least for me^^)

[grey_moon]

This is where Kira explains why she doesn't have a real body. Basically, Rozen wondered if it was necessary for the dolls to be tied to the physical world, and created Kira from his thoughts/imagination, which is why she only exists in the n-field, without a physical body. Essentially that is all the important information revealed there.




what if Laplace was created due to Rozen not being able to control his subconscious, and the bastard bunny represents his hidden desire to create Alice at no matter what the cost...

I wouldn't like to be around if he has a nightmare after watching child's play..

[Guu_chan]

Someone on another forum claimed that Rozen is actually the Count de Saint-Germain, a historical figure from the 18th century :
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6951/countofstgermainsh0.th.jpg (http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=countofstgermainsh0.jpg)
Saint-Germain was a rather eccentric fellow, who was said to be an alchemist, having discovered the secret of eternal life. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_of_St_Germain )

This image from the Rozen Maiden manga seems to confirm this :
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9418/1171596762242267yk0.th.jpg (http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1171596762242267yk0.jpg)
The last panel says something like "count Saint-Germain is nothing but a cheater"...

Also, the manga page matches this image from episode 8 of Traümend where Shinku reminisces about her "father" :
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7297/117163211092271ry5.th.jpg (http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=117163211092271ry5.jpg)
Does anyone have more details about Rozen’s background in the manga ?


Anyway, if this is true, why did Peach-Pit choose Count Saint-Germain as "Father" and have him call himself "Rozen" ?

Maybe because there was a "rumour" that St Germain was the "reincarnation" of Christian Rosenkreutz, the founder of a mystical secret society in the 15th century called the "Rose Cross" (still in activity in the 18th century) :
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6834/1171548096932251ew4.th.jpg (http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1171548096932251ew4.jpg)

By the way, in the 18th century, mechanical automatons were very popular ; some craftsmen were able to build amazing automatons who could play instruments, write and even draw :
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7748/117155053952253bv4.th.jpg (http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=117155053952253bv4.jpg)
Incidentally, at the same time, the Japanese had also become quite adept at making automatons, called "karakuri ningyou" :
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5314/117155070582254ga3.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=117155070582254ga3.jpg)


Anyway, in the image from the manga, we see Rozen/St Germain with a glowing stone... probably trying to make a "Rosa Mystica".
Actually, Saint-Germain was known for owning a huge amount of precious gems, and for knowing a mysterious technique for purging gems from any impurities. He also claimed to have mastered the secret of the "philosopher's stone", which granted eternal youth and could turn lead to gold.

Incidentally, during the 13th century, there was a German theologist, philosopher and alchemist called Albertus Magnus who allegedly used a "philosopher’s stone" to build a talking, thinking automaton with a soul. Albertus’ "android" was later destroyed by his apprentice Thomas Aquinus for being a "tool of Satan".


Anyway, there is one question that has often been asked, due to the cruel "Alice Game" : is Rozen evil ?
Well, count St Germain appears in another recent anime, "le Chevalier d’Eon", and he’s definitely evil (and sports an ugly haircut) ^_^ :
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/921/1171552489492256ed6.th.jpg (http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1171552489492256ed6.jpg)

[klinton]

Nice...gotta love the Japanese. Layers and layers...

[Shinku Hime]

I want to ask, what IS Megu's sickness? I don't get it at all...

[Deathkillz]

^ well i think it was said once that she had some kind of heart disease? her heart can stop at any moment methinks and thus she is quite weak physically >.<

[Ziv]

there was nothing "fanservicy" before episode 10 to suggest anything of this sort."
incorrect. In the very first episode, Nori asks Jun if Shinku is a "foreign Dutch Wife (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_wife)". Later in Traumend as Jun returns with a book on the dolls (which he attempts to hide), she tells him that it's perfectly normal for boys his age to be interested in "those sorts of things". It's fairly obvious to conclude that Nori does have incestuous thoughts about Jun.

screenies for the unbelievers
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2857/rmxk8.jpg
Overall though, it seems to mainly be in there for comedy relief.

[klinton]

It's fairly obvious to conclude that Nori does have incestuous thoughts about Jun.

screenies for the unbelievers
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2857/rmxk8.jpg
Overall though, it seems to mainly be in there for comedy relief.


I think that's more of a plot device than something we'll see developed to any extent. It helps to explain her catering to his needs...so that the writers need not concern themselves with the day to day functions, as Nori does them. (Ex: Do they need a scene at the dinner table: have Nori prepare everything offscreen...ect. Who actually cleaned up Hina's mess while Jun and the dolls were on an adventure? The ever dedicated Nori...again, offscreen.)

[ShadowVlican]

what order should i watch all of Rozen Maiden in? (maybe you can add it to your FAQ as well, or expand upon the section that talks about Traumend)

i see the following in AniDB:
Rozen Maiden (2386)
Rozen Maiden: Traumend (3169)
Rozen Maiden - Ouverture (4772)

i take it that i watch in that order?

[aldw]

Chronological order is:

Ouverture
Rozen Maiden
Traumend

[Ziv]

what order should i watch all of Rozen Maiden in? (maybe you can add it to your FAQ as well, or expand upon the section that talks about Traumend)

i see the following in AniDB:
Rozen Maiden (2386)
Rozen Maiden: Traumend (3169)
Rozen Maiden - Ouverture (4772)

i take it that i watch in that order?
yes, that's the correct order to watch it in.

[Question]

What is the aspect ratio of rozen maiden? It seems to be larger than anything ive seen before, providing for a very sharp display.

[Lost]

Depends on what Fan***s you've been watching. However, we should not go any further - with RM and Traumend licensed, "Fan***s" is a bad-word in here. That said, I've only seen 2 aspect ratios for RM - 4:3 and 16:9 (widescreen) ratios. Apparently they are actually aired, twice, in those 2 different aspect ratios. You probably mean resolution if you're talking about "sharp display." But yeah, that depends on Fan***s.

incorrect. In the very first episode, Nori asks Jun if Shinku is a "foreign Dutch Wife (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_wife)". Later in Traumend as Jun returns with a book on the dolls (which he attempts to hide), she tells him that it's perfectly normal for boys his age to be interested in "those sorts of things". It's fairly obvious to conclude that Nori does have incestuous thoughts about Jun.

screenies for the unbelievers
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2857/rmxk8.jpg
Thanks, main post has been updated. ^^

Hmm, to be nitpicky, I don't think we can say that only those two comments from Nori immediately point to incestuous thoughts. At most, I feel that they reflect Nori's interest in Jun's sexuality - further than that, we can't say - except of course when S1's ep 10 "dream-scene" comes into play. Infact, the manga of that "Dutch Wife" scene seems to back up the fact that she has an interest in his... development as a male.

She goes on to say,
"Oh thank goodness, I was getting a little worried. I mean, you've never stolen my underwear or anything. I'll have to call Mom and Dad right away and tell them."

Of course, I can't see any Sister being even interested in an aspect like that; but Nori is Nori. I mean, she is just weird.

Overall though, it seems to mainly be in there for comedy relief.Dark comedy. :heh: I fail how to see incest can be comedy.. =/

[Question]

Where did muir woods make those posts? On his blog?

[Blablabla]

About the Count Saint Germain hypothesis. And other "funny" guy from french history is also quoted in RM vol 5 : Count Cagliostro (the picture is showing him working on a doll).
Like Saint Germain, Cagliostro was found of alchemy and a very well known jocker who also said that he discoverd the secret of immortality.
And guess what ? Cag' pretended to be Saint Germain's apprentice...

[Joojoobees]

I think that you are right that some sort of referencing of Christian Rosenkreuz is going on, even in the Alice Game, which is a purification ritual, and thus has some resemblence to the Chymical Wedding.

There have been many claims that CR did not die, but rather appeared 300 years later as the Count St. Germain. Since these claims fit in with those that St. Germain was, in fact, immortal, it seems reasonable to assume that there is some referencing of this as well, since "Father" is a seemingly immortal being.

I doubt that there is an actual argument being made that "Father" is the Count St. Germain. I find it more likely that inspiration for the series was found in these stories. I say this because one of the things that struck me about the series was the existential quandary the Rozen Maidens find themselves in. To me it seems an excellent analog to humans wondering about our relationship to our creator. What must we do to please our creator? Can we meet him one day?

BTW, there was an excellent novel that discussed Christian Rosenkreuz, the Count St. Germain, the Knights Templar, and all sorts of other stuff. It is called Foucault's Pendulum, and it is by Umberto Eco (who is more famous for the Name of the Rose).

[Guu_chan]

The scene from the manga in which St Germain and cagliostro are mentioned (vol 5) seems to take place in Jun's dreamworld where he is turned back into a little boy ; he finds himself in a park where a mysterious man sitting on a bench is giving a shadow puppet show.
The scenes from the puppet show portray St Germain walking around with a glowing stone, while courtiers and ladies watch and comment, then we see Cagliostro and then a dollmaker in his workshop.
In the end the mysterious man with the puppets reveals himself as the Laplace demon bunny...

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/2401/rozenmaiden05154mq5.th.jpg (http://img452.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rozenmaiden05154mq5.jpg) http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/2950/rozenmaiden05156lw0.th.jpg (http://img452.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rozenmaiden05156lw0.jpg) (two images from that scene -- but it's the chinese translation)

I guess we'll have to wait till volume 5 is translated (in july) before we know exactly what is being said in this scene (unless someone has read the manga in Japanese and can translate it for us ^_^).

Anyway, hermetic, occult and "gnostic" writing of old are really interesting to read ; there are even some available online (for example here's an English translation of a 15th century treatise on "the art of drawing spirits into crystals" : http://www.esotericarchives.com/tritheim/trchryst.htm )


(And yes, Umberto Eco's books are awesome...)

[_duangelique]

This is a resume according to what Fulcanelli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulcanelli) says (original explanation is too long, too mystical) about the Rose-Cross society:

It seems that the actual society never existed. Moreover, there aren't any historical facts that prove that Christian Rozencreuz could have ever existed; rather he was a sort of a "saint" for those people. The real person who iniciated the cult was Valentín Andreae, some guy that published a manuscript called "Fama Fraternitatis Rosae-Crucis", in which he pretended to merge the secrets of the alchemists with the Francmasons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry)' lodges. That never happened, but a rumour about the Rose-Crosses spreaded, saying that they were able to do the most outrageous things, and were really powerful (my teacher, who told me he was a former Rose-Cross, said that he knew how to move small objects with his mind:twitch: but I never saw that on action).

The only thing that still remains from that days is the "Rose Cross degreee", thet was adopted by the Francmasons

In the XIX century, two orders of the society were created, but soon they dissapeared. Now, even in Google, you can find hundreds of them. Fulcanelli says that they don't have a true mystical basis, but a blend of New Age theories.
From what I understood, Fulcanelli calls as true Rose-Cross masters the true alchemists, since he also explains that "Rosa Mystica" means the Philosopher's Stone, and also the Rose-Cross, a "bleeding heart". Well that is obvious isn't it? The power of the Philosopher's Stone is great enough to compare a soul, the heart that every Rozen Maiden has on herself.

Then he gaves us a little list of people who belonged to the nobility, or reached high status into it, and guess what? The Count of St. Germain hit a spot into it.
That means he was also a member of the "brotherhood", as the author calls it. He says nothing else about the count or the society, but that explained it a little bit more.

(I saw the movie adaptation of Umberto Eco's novel...great!)

[Lost]

(two images from that scene -- but it's the chinese translation)With some help from KBTKaiser (thanks dude!), I managed to put this simple translation together.

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/365/comic1ib5.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=comic1ib5.jpg) http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9111/comic2et0.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=comic2et0.jpg)

what order should i watch all of Rozen Maiden in? (maybe you can add it to your FAQ as well, or expand upon the section that talks about Traumend)
Ah, sorry, missed your post. Yes, looks like with Ouverture out some changes are required to that "Should I watch S1 before Traumend" post.

Also, I was thinking, it'll be good to consolidate all that has been presented here on Rozen vs. Count Germaine/Christian Rosenkreuz in a single FAQ post. It'll be even better if that FAQ post could also include what ever info we already have on Rozen. Any takers?

[Guu_chan]

Whoa! Thanks Mr Lost! Anyway, um... here is the whole scene just in case ^_^ :

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/365/comic1ib5.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=comic1ib5.jpg) http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2734/rozenmaiden05155zx1.th.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rozenmaiden05155zx1.jpg) http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9111/comic2et0.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=comic2et0.jpg) http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9020/rozenmaiden05157eb0.th.jpg (http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rozenmaiden05157eb0.jpg) http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1564/rozenmaiden05158bo0.th.jpg (http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rozenmaiden05158bo0.jpg) http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3407/rozenmaiden05159vi2.th.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rozenmaiden05159vi2.jpg) http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6392/rozenmaiden05160wb3.th.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rozenmaiden05160wb3.jpg)


(my teacher, who told me he was a former Rose-Cross, said that he knew how to move small objects with his mind:twitch: but I never saw that on action).


You're lucky you had interesting teachers... Well, I had a few freemason teachers, but they never did anything occult -- apart from turning me asleep with the power of their mind.


Anyway, the Japanese seem to be really interested in European occultism ; lately there's been another quite well-researched animé called le "Chevalier d'Eon" which takes place during the 18th century and portrays Count St Germain and Count Cagliostro (as villains).

[Question]

Thats easy to explain, the mainstream image of wizards, etc all originated from europe, and legends like merlin. The "asian version" is far less popular...usually involving paper charms and talismans of some kind, and more divinely oriented(they usually call on the protection of gods and spirits for example), and could be better described by the term "Exorcist" or "Priest".

Does anyone have the source of muir wood's posts?

Who's n-field did the traumend night time fight, and the final fight take place in?

Does sousei seki have a medium? She seems only to be functioning under her own power.

Does anyone have the air dates of every episode of rozen maiden and traumend?

How can the dolls consume food and liquids?

[Lost]

Does anyone have the source of muir wood's posts?

Does anyone have the air dates of every episode of rozen maiden and traumend?
This isn't really a proper question for Q&A, but being a topic that is indexed as an FAQ I don't suppose its wrong. His posts, as you see in Solwyvern's post were all taken from somewhere within the Traumend (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=26342) thread we have. He was (or is) also a regular at 4chan; but good luck finding his posts there. :p

As for their Air dates, you may find that information at anidb - Rozen Maiden (http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=2386&expand=0#eid_23600) and Traumend (http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=3169).

[klinton]

Does sousei seki have a medium? She seems only to be functioning under her own power.

What anime have you been watching or manga have you been reading? In both, she is introduced via problems with her medium. Her medium gets the most attention in both, next of course to Jun.

[Question]

Actually i read that he was her master, but not necessarilly medium, maybe he just wound them up but didnt make the contract. He doesnt seem to have the ring(although it could be argued that this was simply not shown), and i cant see an old man having the strain of supplying a doll with power...even tomoe/jun had problems with it at the start. Also Souisei Seki seems really weak in the anime...she doesnt seem as strong as the dolls who had mediums.

[klinton]

Actually i read that he was her master, but not necessarilly medium, maybe he just wound them up but didnt make the contract. He doesnt seem to have the ring(although it could be argued that this was simply not shown), and i cant see an old man having the strain of supplying a doll with power...even tomoe/jun had problems with it at the start. Also Souisei Seki seems really weak in the anime...she doesnt seem as strong as the dolls who had mediums.

I think you're just mincing words here, and looking to see something. It's quite clear that he is indeed her medium, and a point is made that Suiseseki wouldn't hand over her ring to him as her sister did (she clearly states that her sister is bound by the contract to him). If it's any consolation, the same word is used for Jun's relationship with Shinku to describe her master in the french translation.

As to the anime, I never thought anything contrary to the fact that the old man was her medium. Perhaps it's not expressly stated (I really don't recall, it's been awhile since I've watched it)...but I think the implications are clear enough.

[thecowninja]

I think you're just mincing words here, and looking to see something. It's quite clear that he is indeed her medium, and a point is made that Suiseseki wouldn't hand over her ring to him as her sister did (she clearly states that her sister is bound by the contract to him). If it's any consolation, the same word is used for Jun's relationship with Shinku to describe her master in the french translation.

As to the anime, I never thought anything contrary to the fact that the old man was her medium. Perhaps it's not expressly stated (I really don't recall, it's been awhile since I've watched it)...but I think the implications are clear enough.

Er, hello everybody. I just signed up today. ^^ Anyways, I think the only thing that could contradict that the old man is Suisei's medium is that when the game "officially" starts, Suisei said she wouldn't have Jun be her medium, which is always presented in the manner that it seems she doesn't have one. Another moment is when adorable little Suisei is in a phone booth in the rain, calling people to have "a little sister." I don't remember the actual words, so I don't know what to think on this matter, but some people believe she is looking up all the Sakuradas to find Jun. I thought she was trying to find someone instead of Jun.

[Question]

In the first episode, when Nori first sees Shinku and askes Jun about it, what does she say exactly?

[Ziv]

In the first episode, when Nori first sees Shinku and askes Jun about it, what does she say exactly?

"That doll just spoke! It's so cute!!!! Could this be what they call a foreign dutch wife?"
Then after Jun gets angry she goes on about how she read that it's perfectly normal for boys his age to be interested in things like what he's doing.

[Z0Rr0rex]

Is Rozen Maiden going to have another OVa or a third seazon anytime soon?

[the.Merines]

Is Rozen Maiden going to have another OVa or a third seazon anytime soon?

Unknown. At this point, we know that the Ouverture DVD sales were better than any of the previous RM DVDs, and we know that the story is unfinished. "Soon" is a relative term. If PEACH-PIT is able to continue writing the manga, I'd say next winter would be a good time for a release of the 3rd season.

[Kaylia]

I got many questions about technical aspect (I hope they werent answered before ;x I read the thread but didnt see anything).


1) What determine if they can fly or not? In battle, you see them fly around easily in both dream world, N-field and real world, but in other scene, they forget this ability. I'm talking about scene like the one at the end of the 2nd season, when Kanaria is slowly "climbing" the tree to escape, or when Shinku is stuck on the needle of the clock in Sousei seiki's master's dream world? Same could be said about episode like the one where Hina is trying to mail a letter.

I guess I can understand them not using their power in comedy/daily situation assuming "flying" drain a lot of energy, but it's weird to see them not use it when they are in danger. I supose its just inconsistency, unless I'm missing something.


2)Why did Jun had to make a pact with Shinku? Well, my question is, why Suigin Tou sent the clown to attack him? She indirectly forced Shinku to make a pact with him, than spent 3 episodes at the end of the season trying to get ride of Jun to beat Shinku.

3) What exactly is the purpose of the fairy (forgot how they call it) all 7 Maidens have? Why did Suigin Tou went through the trouble to steal both when they don't seem to have much impact on anything (she could have stolen their Rosa mystica in that scene instead). I assume they act as some sort of power amplifier for shiny special attack, but beside that, I don't understand what they do.

Also, how did Sousei Seiki lose her in episode 8-9?


4) What god should I pray for a 3rd reason, and where should I check for quick news to see if my prayer were answered? Also, is there any new development with the manga, or it's still canceled with no hope to see the rest X_x?

[Kittie Rose]

I think they can only fly when the "Alice Game" is active.

[Kaylia]

They fly easily in Jun's dream word (was no Alice game there first time), but in the old man's dream world, they forgot <_>

[Zife19]

2. Shinku made a pact with Jun so he could use Jun's power. Rozen Maiden's need mediums. Is how they get their extra power. If Suigintou got rid of Jun Shinku would get weaker.

3 Those fairy things are called Roza Mysticas. THe point of the ALice is game is to collect them. If one Maiden has them all they become ALice. THat's every Maiden's goal.

[Kaylia]

2. Shinku made a pact with Jun so he could use Jun's power. Rozen Maiden's need mediums. Is how they get their extra power. If Suigintou got rid of Jun Shinku would get weaker.

3 Those fairy things are called Roza Mysticas. THe point of the ALice is game is to collect them. If one Maiden has them all they become ALice. THat's every Maiden's goal.


2nd question was more like "Why did Suigin Tou sent the weak clown after Jun in the first episode, forcing them to make a pact?" It make little sense to get ride of him at that time.

The roza mystica is the jewel that come out their chest when they die, not the small fairy thing. In the anime, they say something like "So, this is a Rosa mystica" when Sousei Seiki die, implying they havent seen one yet, or it's something rarer than the "fairies". The rosa mystica also carry the memory/emotion of the doll, while the "fairy" are used only as a weapon/tool

[Senovit]

About the only one I feel confident in answering is the faerie question. Since Suiseiseki/Souseiseki's faeries allowed them to enter the dream world, Suigintou uses them to move through people's dreams. I also recall that some faeries become the main weapon a doll uses - for instance, Suiseiseki's becomes her watering pot.

No idea why Suigintou would want those rather than their rosa mysticas at that time though :p you have some good questions x_x

[Zife19]

All I can say is, the creators would probably wanted them to have a pact some way or another :P

As for th faries....you see the final episode? Barauishou and SHinku used their powers because they had them. Bara had Souseiseki's and was able to use her scissors as SHinku had Suigintou's giving her wings.

[the.Merines]

Hmm... Suigintou chose to take Souseiseki's Lempicka because it was part of her grand scheme for annoying/hurting Shinku as well as gaining Rosa Mysticae. It was much easier to blackmail Souseiseki than to defeat her in battle at that point.

As to why Suigintou sent the pierrot after Jun/Shinku, it wasn't really meant to kill Jun or defeat Shinku. It was just Suigintou sending a message to Shinku to say "I'm here, and you're going down." Or something to that effect. :heh:

The Rosa Mystica and the dolls' artificial spirits are separate entities, as noted.

[Hilinar]

I also recall that some faeries become the main weapon a doll uses - for instance, Suiseiseki's becomes her watering pot.Interesting I thought it rather calls it, or manifests. It could be determined by stating if dolls, ie Suigintou, used Scissors and Watering Pot without artificial spirits, but I don't remeber.

[Kaylia]

About the only one I feel confident in answering is the faerie question. Since Suiseiseki/Souseiseki's faeries allowed them to enter the dream world, Suigintou uses them to move through people's dreams. I also recall that some faeries become the main weapon a doll uses - for instance, Suiseiseki's becomes her watering pot.

No idea why Suigintou would want those rather than their rosa mysticas at that time though :p you have some good questions x_x

That's a good point, I didnt think about that. They do open the path to Jun's sister's dream world in episode 11 , but Hina Hichigo was with them at that time, so I supose she could have done it for the twin.

About the weapon, I thought it was something similar for a while, but you see Sousei Seiki uses her scisor to distract Suigin Tou near the end of episode 11 (they get them back in episode 12 when Suigin Tou is busy with Shinku)


All I can say is, the creators would probably wanted them to have a pact some way or another :P

As for the faries....you see the final episode? Barauishou and SHinku used their powers because they had them. Bara had Souseiseki's and was able to use her scissors as SHinku had Suigintou's giving her wings.


Yeah, I know ;p I love the anime, and dont really care much about those details. I was just curious to see if there was a logical explanation since something felt wrong when you look back at it knowing how thing work. But meh, such detail wont make Rozen maiden fall from my "top 5 anime"XD

The fairies are a part of the Rosa Mystica for sure. When you absorb someone's else rosa mystica, you get their power, their weapon, their memories and their fairies. We also know Suigin Tou got her fairy in the OVA at the same time she get her Rosa Mystica, so it's pretty obvious both are related. That said, it's still hard to pinpoint how much of their power is due to the fairy, medium, and rosa mystica.

[Kaylia]

Hmm... Suigintou chose to take Souseiseki's Lempicka because it was part of her grand scheme for annoying/hurting Shinku as well as gaining Rosa Mysticae. It was much easier to blackmail Souseiseki than to defeat her in battle at that point.

As to why Suigintou sent the pierrot after Jun/Shinku, it wasn't really meant to kill Jun or defeat Shinku. It was just Suigintou sending a message to Shinku to say "I'm here, and you're going down." Or something to that effect. :heh:

The Rosa Mystica and the dolls' artificial spirits are separate entities, as noted.

In that case, Shinku is a lying brat since she told Jun his life was in danger, when it's actually the complete opposite. He become a threat the moment he make the pact :P Considering how nerd he is, he probably would have made the pact either way, since those dolls are badass (I know I would!), but it's kinda weird the way it happens. It's also hard to believe Shinku was "powerless" in front of the clown before the pact considering how much those dolls can own without a medium (see: Suigin tou in season 1, Suisei Seikei season 1 and first half of 2).

About the fairy, while it's true her plan was probably to "annoy" them, Sousei Seiki wasn't even fighting at that time. Even if she stole them, she ended up bringing Sousei Seiki against her. They also got their fairy back extremely easily in episode 12 (called their name and they came back). However, as mentioned by someone above, if the fairy is the thing they use to enter the dream world, it could make sense if she tried to disable every other doll. She should have tried to get Hina's one first tho >_>

[Hilinar]

It's also hard to believe Shinku was "powerless" in front of the clown before the pact considering how much those dolls can own without a medium (see: Suigin tou in season 1, Suisei Seikei season 1 and first half of 2).Without medium, dolls can use their powers only in dream worlds (n-field probably too). It was stated in manga. Suigintou is exception.

[Kaylia]

Didnt know Suigin Tou was cheating in the real world. Is there any explanation why she can do that, or it's just her "stronger" will power/desire to meet the father?

[Choki]

With great determination comes with great powers....She alone being animated without a rosa mystica shows how strong her desire to meet Rozen.

I do remember faintly that Shinku did say that Suigintou is able to move and use her powers without a medium is because of her strong will and desire to meet Father (in the manga). Maybe i should start re-reading RM again :D

Their fairy was sort of like a helper to them...like how Shinku uses hers to find out whats happening in the N-field.

The fairies are a part of the Rosa Mystica for sure. When you absorb someone's else rosa mystica, you get their power, their weapon, their memories and their fairies. We also know Suigin Tou got her fairy in the OVA at the same time she get her Rosa Mystica, so it's pretty obvious both are related. That said, it's still hard to pinpoint how much of their power is due to the fairy, medium, and rosa mystica.

But why did Meimei(Suigintou's fairy) went to Shinku when Shinku didnt take Suigintou's rosa mystica in S1? Meimei only returned to her later in Tramuend.

[Skyfall]

I do remember faintly that Shinku did say that Suigintou is able to move and use her powers without a medium is because of her strong will and desire to meet Father (in the manga). Maybe i should start re-reading RM again :D


I don't remember which ep, but it was stated in the anime as well ;)

[Kaylia]

But why did Meimei(Suigintou's fairy) went to Shinku when Shinku didnt take Suigintou's rosa mystica in S1? Meimei only returned to her later in Tramuend.

I thought at first it was Laplace Demon or Barasuishou who used it to lure Shinku in the N-field, but it might be Suigintou herself who used it as a medium to contact Shinku while she was sleeping.

I would need to watch the scene again, but I don't think Meimei "returned" to Shinku, it just contacted her the same way Shinku sent her after Hinaichigo in one of the first episode

[Choki]

The 'her' I'm refering here is Suigintou though....My bad for not saying it clearly =X

[the.Merines]

Did MeiMei go with Shinku? I don't remember that. Just because Suigintou never needed to use her artificial spirit until later in Traumend doesn't mean it wasn't in her possession.

[Kaylia]

I watched episode 1 of Traumend again to see what happened. Laplace Demon was the one who was controlling Suigin Tou's artificial spirit to bring Shinku in the N-field. You see the spirit fly to him once they are inside, then he dissapears and the spirit fly to the crystal area where they fight Barasuishou. Later in episode 6, we can assume they gave back Meimei to Suigin Tou before leaving the box in the church, unless the Meimei you see in episode 1 was simply an illusion.

What happened between episode 12 and episode 6 will probably never be told. The only thing we know is that Shinku didnt take her Rosa Mystica.


And omg, music is so awesome in that anime. Every time I open an episode, I end up watching 4-5 complete episode simply to listen to the soundtrack


[edit]

Another random stupid question. What's the point of throwing rose petal/black feather to your oponent? Even Jun seem to be unafected by them. Just cross your arm in front of your head and none will ever hit you!

[Lost]

While there were scenes when our protagonists could be in a field of black feathers flying at them and not get hit (don't ask me why, it's the unsearchable Law of Anime) those black feathers were actually razor sharp. So were the petals. Besides, they could be, and were, used to distract and hinder the opponent when deployed in a flurry.

[Kaylia]

While there were scenes when our protagonists could be in a field of black feathers flying at them and not get hit (don't ask me why, it's the unsearchable Law of Anime) those black feathers were actually razor sharp. So were the petals. Besides, they could be, and were, used to distract and hinder the opponent when deployed in a flurry.

I know ;p wasnt really a serious question. That's like asking why an army of 100 ninja will always be weaker than a single ninja. The feather and rose petal did do pretty color show

[grey_moon]

It would be devastating if you suffer from hay fever :p

[minhtam1638]

1. How can a doll "make a contract" with a medium? And how can a doll "terminate a contract?"

2. Who exactly has Souseiseki's Rosa Mystica? I know Sugintou stole it/won it outright, but it's unclear for me as to who actually has it.

[MaxwellDemon]

1. How can a doll "make a contract" with a medium? And how can a doll "terminate a contract?"

2. Who exactly has Souseiseki's Rosa Mystica? I know Sugintou stole it/won it outright, but it's unclear for me as to who actually has it.

These questions, you would figure it out once you watch the anime... but since RM is like 10th on your list, I'll answer it. :p

1. A doll make a contract by having a person kiss a rose ring they are wearing. Once this person kissed the ring, the ring will appear on one of the medium's ring fingers. In order for a doll to terminate a contract, she simply would return this kiss on the ring when it is on the medium's finger. This would break the contract then.

2. As of the last episode...

Laplace's Demon has it along with Hina's. I won't say too much why he has it or why it isn't with Suigintou, you'll have to speculate yourself. :p

[blueststar]

<using new account after awhile, since my old one is...dead, so long ago that I no longer remember anything about it>
I got many questions about technical aspect (I hope they werent answered before ;x I read the thread but didnt see anything).


1) What determine if they can fly or not? In battle, you see them fly around easily in both dream world, N-field and real world, but in other scene, they forget this ability. I'm talking about scene like the one at the end of the 2nd season, when Kanaria is slowly "climbing" the tree to escape, or when Shinku is stuck on the needle of the clock in Sousei seiki's master's dream world? Same could be said about episode like the one where Hina is trying to mail a letter.

I guess I can understand them not using their power in comedy/daily situation assuming "flying" drain a lot of energy, but it's weird to see them not use it when they are in danger. I supose its just inconsistency, unless I'm missing something.


2)Why did Jun had to make a pact with Shinku? Well, my question is, why Suigin Tou sent the clown to attack him? She indirectly forced Shinku to make a pact with him, than spent 3 episodes at the end of the season trying to get ride of Jun to beat Shinku.

3) What exactly is the purpose of the fairy (forgot how they call it) all 7 Maidens have? Why did Suigin Tou went through the trouble to steal both when they don't seem to have much impact on anything (she could have stolen their Rosa mystica in that scene instead). I assume they act as some sort of power amplifier for shiny special attack, but beside that, I don't understand what they do.

Also, how did Sousei Seiki lose her in episode 8-9?


4) What god should I pray for a 3rd reason, and where should I check for quick news to see if my prayer were answered? Also, is there any new development with the manga, or it's still canceled with no hope to see the rest X_x?

Although these questions are rather old, I'm rather curious about these:

1) The "when they fly" problem is rather queer, but if it really needs an explanation, it is one of the possibly-left-unanswered plot holes in the anime.

Can they fly in the REAL world? (coz the "city field" in Traumend is an N-Field) I don't remember anything but scenes of Gin's wings, Kana flying with her umbrella, and Desu and Boku double smashing Jun's room window over and over again...

Maybe they can only fly with their TRUNKS in the real world? Except Kana and Gin coz they already have the ability TO.

Edit: Kana's ability to fly doesn't seem to be as free as Gin though. In the manga, she was shown blown away once by the wind while trying to trespass into Jun's house from the air.

2) answered.

3) answered. The purpose of Gin stealing only the "artificial/man-made spirits" is unclear, but it seems that both Desu and Boku need their "spirits" to open the Door of Dreams. Maybe Gin stole it for that purpose?

Boku lost her "spirit" once because Gin took it.

4) here :D
Pray that Peach-Pit changed the ending in the anime. At least I want to enjoy season 3 peacefully >__>


Explaining some info, since I have nothing else to do...:

What's the point of throwing rose petal/black feather to your oponent?

#1: nonsense, just for fun, etc., #2: frightening them so they run away?

Edit: The manga explains why sometimes a Rozen Maiden's attack misses human beings. To quote Shinku, Father forbids his Rozen Maidens to hurt humans (though Gin and Boku don't seem to care much in the manga)

How can the dolls consume food and liquids?

Anything Peach-Pit have in their heads. Honestly, I'll never understand those two's brains.

Who's n-field did the traumend night time fight, and the final fight take place in?
Nobody, but it is made by Gin.

what IS Megu's sickness?
It is unknown in the anime, heart disease in the manga.

[minhtam1638]

For those of you with music knowledge: Anybody know if there are any Rozen Maiden songs on major keys?

[Kuro-chan]

how many rm dvds do you all have? My sister owns 4

[ayu-smepai]

I have a Good question

When Rozen made the 7 dolls (Known as "Rozen maidens)
as a failure for trying to Complete/Make "Alice". Why did he Make then fight for the title of alice? Couldnt he just Throw them away continue making more dolls, for a perfict creation?

[BOOKGLUTTON]

ask him yourself? It would really depend on what he would want in alice for him to make that kind of decision.

[Deadwings]

I have a Good question

When Rozen made the 7 dolls (Known as "Rozen maidens)
as a failure for trying to Complete/Make "Alice". Why did he Make then fight for the title of alice? Couldnt he just Throw them away continue making more dolls, for a perfict creation?

Probably because making the perfect doll by himself it's way more difficult than letting your "incomplete" dolls fight each other and create Alice in the process. I think that if you take every good point each doll has and put them all together in a single doll, well, then you get Alice.
That question, I think, was answered in the anime, but the manga hasn't given any clear answer if I'm not wrong.

[EternalNeptune]

i guess wen "father" sed that shinku cud stil bring bak souiseiseki and hinaichigo, does that mean they're alright?

[Ishalla]

I must say that this was one of the most interesting Rozen Maiden topics I've read in ages, and it did strengthen/alter my opinion on certain matters. (have yet to look at the rest at Animesuki), however, there were a few points in the guide with which I disagree.
(Those points are in the spoiler, both because they do spoil the plot a bit, and it is not the shortest message I've written)

Despite the fact though that we could sometimes pair-them in terms of level of "perfection" achieveded; like Hina+Kana / Gin+Shinku, etc;

I disagree, their level of perfection is equal within all, or, at the very least, we cannot say which one is higher than the other. This mainly because we do not know what Rozen would believe is to be the 'perfect doll' alias Alice. Besides, perfection in itself is an abstract word, there is no absolute definition for it, only the feeling of, and as everyone has their own opinion on perfection we cannot argue which of the dolls would be considered 'the most perfect', the only thing we know for sure is that, from Rozen's point of view, all of these dolls were not yet perfect.

My personal believe for the many dolls would then have to be indeed because the first doll was imperfect due to the lack of one aspect and the 'overcompensation' of another.
One virtue to little and one sin to much.
It is an interesting thing to note that in the Catholic religion, seven virtues and seven 'main' sins were written down to be either the 'best of the best' or the 'worst of the worst'. I have yet to look deeper into it, but it is possible that every doll resembles one such feature of both sides, hence giving them a part of perfection (a virtue) and apart of imperfection (a sin).
Would it be that once one doll obtained all seven sins and all seven virtues, the famed eight virtue would come into play (Justice) hence giving that doll more virtues than sins, and making her 'perfect'? Maybe.


To Enju however even though he placed the same amout of love into all of his dolls, he would still destroy those that ended up as failures.., and his desire for his only creation to surpass those of others showed us that he has clearly not the same feeling towards "all" dolls.
it is revealed that Enju is not the man known as Rozen or "Father", but a jealous apprentice of his who sought to eclipse his master's art.
Pure and simply , its just a very calculative & cold aspect of her personality when towards the means to achieve her goals
However, he failed on something (something that some say it was the Rosa Mystica that Bara did not have of her own).., which then inevitabily lead to her self-destruction when she atempted to achieve "Alice".


Those three quotes made me think.
First of all, is it really love that Enju showed towards his dolls, or, at least, love of the same level as Rozen gave to his dolls. I dare to doubt that. Rozen gave life to the dolls of which he knew were imperfect, with the most prominent example of Suigintou, who was both physically and mentally imperfect.
The second quote states that Enju was a 'jealous apprentice' who wanted to beat Rozen at dollcraft. That leads to the conclusion, for me at least, that his doll was not made with the pure love Rozen felt, but with the longing for vengeance and, above all, the longing to be better. Was the love, if it was love at all, a cruel love, the love of his dreams of crushing Rozen's love?
That leads me to the point of believing that her character was/is a reflection of the love Enju gave her, calculated and cold indeed with only as goal to beat the other dolls. Would the failing of giving 'true' love be the reason why she could not become Alice? The main virtue was, after all, the virtue of Love.
That does raise another question, assuming Rozen's love was real, would that not make the dolls perfect already? Who knows, I really need to look into that sometime later.

[idiffer]

What was the whole point of the Alice game? and why would any doll want to participate in it?
and most importantly, what the hell happened when nobody could in the end become Alice?
the dolls' reason de tre (or how was it?) is lost. it all really seems pointless, just for the sake of itself...

[Ithekro]

Judging by all appearances, the Alice Game has been going on far a long time. Originally I suppose they all wanted to please "father". As time goes on they each come to different conclusions of what they are meant to do or what becoming "Alice" means.

[Evil Rick]

I have a question that has bothering me around recently.

Why Shinku didn't just returned the Rosa Mystica to Hina Ichigo when she got it?

[KoiYuki]

I have a question that has bothering me around recently.

Why Shinku didn't just returned the Rosa Mystica to Hina Ichigo when she got it?
Hm..
In the manga, she can't because HinaIchigo's body is eaten/stolen by Kirakishou.

In the anime, I guess they just CAN'T return them. I really have no idea as far as the anime's concerned though, so that's just speculation.

[Evil Rick]

Thanks. :)