View Full Version : Nanoha Manga Discussion
But if that's true it means he was severely wounded by mere drones, which would be rather pathetic for him.
Vita is taking that comment rather hard...
I don't remember that. From what I remember it was only said that he was trying to protect his subordinates. But if that's true it means he was severely wounded by mere drones, which would be rather pathetic for him. Besides Jail wouldn't be so proud of his cyborg killing an S-ranked knight in 1 vs 1 duel if she simply finished off a dying guy.
Nanoha wonders why she was in the hospital for so long by "mere" drones. And Vita wonders about the hole in her chest from those self-same drones.
Even when Zest was badly injured, he still managed to take Cinque's right eye.
Those "mere" drones were type-3's. Personal guardians of the Cradle, you know, the Saint Kaiser's personal warship.
I'm pretty sure that the Kaisers wouldn't want weak drones to protect the throne.
Zest is a textbook example of a character written to look stronger than he actually was. Almost all of StrikerS villains were like that. They all only seemed powerful and threatening in the first half, when they fought newbies and characters with active limiters.
Unisoned Rein and Signum say "hi" when Zest, while dying, brushed by them with no effort.
Say what you will about the Numbers, but if Riot Force Six hadn't trained to deal with AMF conditions, I'm pretty sure that Jail would have won in the end.
Nanoha wonders why she was in the hospital for so long by "mere" drones. And Vita wonders about the hole in her chest from those self-same drones.
Nanoha's magic failed from overworking, if not for that that drone wouldn't even scratch her. And Vita was backstabbed by stealth drone from behind while her automatic shields weren't working due to the powerful AMF in the Craddle.
Even when Zest was badly injured, he still managed to take Cinque's right eye.
We don't know if he was wounded before fighting Cinque or during the fight. Actually we don't know anything about this fight except for Jail's comments. And I see no reason why Jail would lie about it being a fair 1 vs 1 fight.
Unisoned Rein and Signum say "hi" when Zest, while dying, brushed by them with no effort.
No effort? He was putting his life on the line and doing his absolute best to see Regius before his death.
Nanoha's magic failed from overworking, if not for that that drone wouldn't even scratch her. And Vita was backstabbed by stealth drone from behind while her automatic shields weren't working due to the powerful AMF in the Craddle.
3 guesses what kind of drones Zest's squad was fighting. Also, source for the "shields didn't work because of AMF" plx.
Bananoha
2010-05-11, 17:46
.... Are we still talking about this.... -w-;Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Movie 1st comic volume 1(Gakken publishing)
http://shop.broccoli.co.jp/item_detail.php?product_id=143297
The release date is June 30 and the price is 619 yen.
Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha ViVid volume 2(Kadokawa publishing)
http://www.7netshopping.jp/books/detail/-/accd/1102916855
The release date is July 23 and the price is 588 yen.Ergh, I'll have to Amazon twice a year after July 1st because HARMONIZED TAX will probably rape me more than the normal taxes already are. ._. *sigh*
itanshi1
2010-05-11, 18:12
3 guesses what kind of drones Zest's squad was fighting. Also, source for the "shields didn't work because of AMF" plx.
They didn't work because she forgot? Use process of elimination.
Amaterasu1963
2010-05-11, 18:47
Re: Zest.
Everyone says Zest got wounded fighting drones first.
Based on what? All we see is one of his men holding him up in one image. There are no drones in that image and none are mentioned.
What about the possibility that the attacker was Cinque all along?
She attacked, Zest got hurt protecting his men, they ran away and she caught up and killed them.
She is S+ rank after all. She could have set up a trap in the corridor too. Walls, ceiling, floor blowing up all around them, etc.
Re. Vivid fight.
I think the teams as such were matched up pretty well its the 1 on 1 that's the problem. The team that wins will be the team that starts working together as a team first.
We don't know if he was wounded before fighting Cinque or during the fight. Actually we don't know anything about this fight except for Jail's comments. And I see no reason why Jail would lie about it being a fair 1 vs 1 fight.
Hey, you were the one who made the comment of how pathetic a showing Zest made in StrikerS and commented on how it was that Cinque only killed a weakened man, I was just commenting on what you said.
00-Raiser
2010-05-11, 19:03
Say what you will about the Numbers, but if Riot Force Six hadn't trained to deal with AMF conditions, I'm pretty sure that Jail would have won in the end.
This is very important. It was said that only Riot Force 6 members had any real training to deal with AMFs, which means that Zest didn't have such training. If he got caught in an AMF it's not surprising he'd be beaten if zerg rushed by drones and attacked by Cinque. The fact that he still managed to give her a decent fight and take her eye while handicapped is a testament to his abilities.
Anyways, new Force chapter was pretty awesome. Knowing what's being said between Signum and Cypha really made the difference. Can't wait for the next chapter.
Edit: OMG this thread is now OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAND!!! XD
Kikaifan
2010-05-11, 21:06
Unisoned Rein and Signum say "hi" when Zest, while dying, brushed by them with no effort.
Uh, sure, when she was in diplomat mode. Once she decided to kill him he died on the first stroke.
00-Raiser
2010-05-11, 21:13
Uh, sure, when she was in diplomat mode. Once she decided to kill him he died on the first stroke.
He was at Death's door anyways. Signum merely pushed him over the threshold.
Kikaifan
2010-05-11, 21:18
He was at Death's door anyways. Signum merely pushed him over the threshold.
A flaming sword through the chest isn't really a 'mere push'.
Zest wasn't in his prime, but I doubt he deteriorated significantly in the 5-10 minutes it took Signum to catch up with him and start round 2.
Goldsmith
2010-05-11, 21:48
His weapon broke....
A flaming sword through the chest isn't really a 'mere push'.
Zest wasn't in his prime, but I doubt he deteriorated significantly in the 5-10 minutes it took Signum to catch up with him and start round 2.
You do realize that he nearly died from using Full Drive against Vita a few days/weeks previous, right?
Uh, sure, when she was in diplomat mode. Once she decided to kill him he died on the first stroke.
Uh, yeah, first stroke. Let's ignore the fact that Zest ASKED for a warrior's death and still did better than someone who was nearly dead had any right to do.
Hell, Agito was BEGGING him not to use Full Drive, knowing that it could possibly kill him. The man went on sheer determination of will alone and knew the he could have just dropped dead, but wanted a death befitting a warrior.
arkhangelsk
2010-05-11, 22:21
A flaming sword through the chest isn't really a 'mere push'.
Zest wasn't in his prime, but I doubt he deteriorated significantly in the 5-10 minutes it took Signum to catch up with him and start round 2.
Not physically, but mentally 10 minutes ago he had something to do. Now he's awaiting death. In any kind of close life and death contest, it makes a big difference.
Blank-Mage
2010-05-11, 22:22
Oh God, what have I started?!
Kikaifan
2010-05-11, 22:29
You do realize that he nearly died from using Full Drive against Vita a few days/weeks previous, right?
Thus 'not in his prime.'
Uh, yeah, first stroke. Let's ignore the fact that Zest ASKED for a warrior's death and still did better than someone who was nearly dead had any right to do.
He mussed her hair.
In the tradition of 'going into a fight intending to die but still making it hell on the other guy' he's nowhere near, say, The Boss.
Lord Pertinax
2010-05-11, 22:55
Oh God, what have I started?!
The Apocalypse. Isn't it sweet?
They didn't work because she forgot? Use process of elimination.
Ahh, you mean like how I can just as easily assume the drones have focused AMF coating their blades, or that the stealth also worked on Graf Eisen?
I find the last one quite likely myself. These aren't airbags after all, they're defenses activated by the device when it detects incoming danger in order to protect it's wielder. If it can't detect the danger, no defense.
Unless this was referring to the standard field and barriers active with a barrier jacket, though that's unlikely as we know these are active since those are what allow them to use magic in an AMF the first place. Plus, there was a little scene at the beginning of the boarding where they even increased the strength of said defences.
itanshi1
2010-05-12, 01:34
well, surprise may account for it, nanoha got sliced in the movie manga as she did (if that even counts)
Also, source for the "shields didn't work because of AMF" plx.
It was explained in the manga that automatic magical defenses don't work inside strong AMF fields. And Cradle had the strongest AMF we saw so far.
It was explained in the manga that automatic magical defenses don't work inside strong AMF fields. And Cradle had the strongest AMF we saw so far.
That's why Nanoha and Vita had to boost their automatic defenses.
Anyway, keroko, Zest also was under Unison when he fought Signum in ep 22, and the fight clearly showed Signum using a Dex attack against a STR one :heh:
For those interested, Wings of Yuri scanlated the latest chapter of vivid. Shouldnt be too long beofre it appears on Onemanga or Mangafox.
For those interested, Wings of Yuri scanlated the latest chapter of vivid. Shouldnt be too long beofre it appears on Onemanga or Mangafox.
Good to know!
Gespenst
2010-05-13, 01:48
Reading Vivid 12 now...
Fate has more HP than Nanoha. :confused:
It's also weird that Caro never seems to age... (even in Force)
Evil Rick
2010-05-13, 01:58
Good lord, now life gauges. Is this Yu-Gi-Oh! or wath?
fukarming
2010-05-13, 02:00
Reading Vivid 12 now...
Fate has more HP than Nanoha. :confused:
It's also weird that Caro never seems to age... (even in Force)
HP is related to position and nothing to the person.
Audience like fake loli?
Good lord, now life gauges. Is this Yu-Gi-Oh! or wath?
This is more Street fighter or EVE, derp derp. I say Nanoha compensate her weaker HP with stronger defense and more potent ranged game (like a CALDARI!), while Fate may have weaker defense but compensate with speed tank, melee damage output and slightly higher HP.
Nightengale
2010-05-13, 05:29
Life gauges make a lot sense in this context. With inherent magical defenses and possibility of extremely uneven combat situations, having magically monitored life gauges is the best way to have sports and martial arts competitions, in the Mid-childan magic sense.
I'm personally fond of the idea of magic-linked conventional sports events. Well, a simple example is baseball.
Vivio was in Nanoha-mode for a bit, using Divine Buster + Quick Bind.
Interesting that Teana's shots are faster than Nanoha's.
Interesting that Teana's shots are faster than Nanoha's.
as StrikerS manga mentioned, more power, less control.
as StrikerS manga mentioned, more power, less control.
If you are talking about Hayate, i don't think that's what it meant (especially as Haayte was said to have originally only as much power as Nanoha/Fate before being stretched thin by YnS).
Anyway, Nanoha Choosing strength over speed is nothing new. (http://www.onemanga.com/Magical_Girl_Lyrical_Nanoha_As/1/12/)
I think it's more that Nanoha's spells are geared differently.
Anyone having problems reading the latest chapter of Vivid on mangafox :confused:
For some reasons only a few pages load for me and the rest can't load.
Blank-Mage
2010-05-13, 07:48
I liked Teana's "It's not impossible for Nanoha to knock out the entire team with one blast" for a couple of reasons: One is that she would know that, and two is that she never specifies what team. Ah, training with Nanoha is always fun, eh, Teana?
FlareKnight
2010-05-13, 08:13
I liked Teana's "It's not impossible for Nanoha to knock out the entire team with one blast" for a couple of reasons: One is that she would know that, and two is that she never specifies what team. Ah, training with Nanoha is always fun, eh, Teana?True enough that Nanoha could just take down absolutely everyone and win by being the last person standing. An honorable sacrifice by the team for a victory :heh:. But really both Teana and Nanoha have a good grasp of the situation. Looking forward to seeing that match-up.
ReddyRedWolf
2010-05-13, 11:05
HP is related to position and nothing to the person.
Audience like fake loli?
Ahh! Loli Rider Lutecia is no longer loli anymore. Caro on the other hand is not only a shorty but a pettanko.
Erio the brat matured.
Makes me want to see a 4koma doujin about these three at this age.
Anyone having problems reading the latest chapter of Vivid on mangafox :confused:
For some reasons only a few pages load for me and the rest can't load.
Seems to be fixed now.
Anyone having problems reading the latest chapter of Vivid on mangafox :confused:
For some reasons only a few pages load for me and the rest can't load.
Yeah, I had the same problem. But it's up on OneManga too, and that seems to be loading fine.
Rising Dragon
2010-05-13, 12:56
Actually... Nanoha having less HP than Fate makes a lot of sense. Considering the damage she willingly allows to her body due to overstraining on magic, she'd naturally have less vitality than her partner--and it makes even more sense here, seeing how in ViVid, Nanoha's supposed to be recovering from her battles on the Saint's Cradle.
HP appears to be for Position, not specific to the person.
Hmm, I wonder what would happen if they were to turn Force into a weekly running manga? I think they can do it, they've definitely got enough characters to expand about.
About Vivid chap 12
Not a bad one, at least something is happening, if HP are by position i am wondering wht Corona has less HP than Fate ?
I facepalmed at the "I do hard" line from Brunzell.
I facepalmed at the "I do hard" line from Brunzell.
I laughed. Deliciously awkward Engrish is always good to rip away any shred of seriousness in a scene and get a laugh out of it. But now I don't know who I should call Naga-tan anymore, what with Corona's golem creation she's now a good contender with Lutecia for the title.
Oh, and Rio once again is love. Flaming thunder dragons. Yum.
I laughed. Deliciously awkward Engrish is always good to rip away any shred of seriousness in a scene and get a laugh out of it. But now I don't know who I should call Naga-tan anymore, what with Corona's golem creation she's now a good contender with Lutecia for the title.
Oh, and Rio once again is love. Flaming thunder dragons. Yum.
I laughed even more when it made an Hard Golem.
Oh, and Rio once again is love. Flaming thunder dragons. Yum.
And that's precisely WHY I dislike Rio.
Huh, clash of opinions. Not that it's really important, but I'm curious, why does it make you dislike Rio?
itanshi1
2010-05-13, 17:12
Caro should have the monopoly on dragons? <.<;
prescience
2010-05-13, 17:38
Something along the lines of this (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2979563#post2979563)?
Rio: Why can't I have cool things? ;_;
itanshi1
2010-05-13, 18:14
She's still gonna get Gollem stomped. Can't we just write it off as part of the Amazon Battalion trope?
If you are a member of the battalion, you better be able match their awesomeness.
Gespenst
2010-05-13, 18:29
Interesting that Teana's shots are faster than Nanoha's.
Well what's faster? Pulling off a whole big spell or pulling a trigger?
Actually... Nanoha having less HP than Fate makes a lot of sense. Considering the damage she willingly allows to her body due to overstraining on magic, she'd naturally have less vitality than her partner--and it makes even more sense here, seeing how in ViVid, Nanoha's supposed to be recovering from her battles on the Saint's Cradle.
I'd actually (almost) like to see Nanoha's supposedly crippling injuries... cripple her. At least for a while. At the moment it's all like:
Oh! Permanent loss of power, keep going and you'll die!
Oh well la de da, carry on like normal~
...If only for the comfort fics that would result.
Transformed Vivio looks the best so far.....tying with no-armor/Speed Fate.
itanshi1
2010-05-13, 20:30
Well what's faster? Pulling off a whole big spell or pulling a trigger?
I'd actually (almost) like to see Nanoha's supposedly crippling injuries... cripple her. At least for a while. At the moment it's all like:
Oh! Permanent loss of power, keep going and you'll die!
Oh well la de da, carry on like normal~
...If only for the comfort fics that would result.
Check satashi's fav fics at her fanfiction.net profile, one of them deals with just that
Estavali
2010-05-13, 20:54
I have this feeling that Vivid is now pretty much something that Tsuzuki throws in whatever he thinks is cool. That's why we are getting Twin-Element Rio and Golemmancer Corona.
Either that or he likes those girls too much to shaft them aside (like what happened to Arisa and Suzuka) by keeping them the only ordinary kids in an hardly ordinary group.
Perhaps in his mind, the only way to keep Rio and Corona relevant is to give them powers that could help them stand out, even by a bit, amongst this rather varied team.
Something along the lines of this (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=2979563#post2979563)?
Rio: Why can't I have cool things? ;_;
Yep, more or less, add in remote transformation ability when NO ONE ELSE DID IT BEFORE and you get why she's bothering me.
Huh, clash of opinions. Not that it's really important, but I'm curious, why does it make you dislike Rio?
Check that link.
I mean, seriously, if it wasn't for remote transformation (which was never even HINTED at before) and dual elemental wielding, I would have no problem with her.
I don't mean transformation as a problem, Yuuno, Einhart, the Lieze twins and other familiars can do transformations without a device. But for a barrier jacket with a device, how come NO ONE ELSE did it (remote transformation) before her?!
I mean, in StrikerS, the biggest chance was episodes 16 and 17. Nanoha, Fate, Hayate and Signum, NONE of them transformed until they had their devices on hand.
Stuff like that is bothering me.
And elemental control for two elements?! When having even ONE is RARE?!
Those two things bother the hell out of me when it comes to her.
If it was said that people USING elements was rare rather than people HAVING elements as rare, I wouldn't care, I would just think she was flashy.
But you add those two things up with the fact that she's a main character's friend, practices the same type of fighting as Vivio, stronger magic than the main character, adult mode transformation, making her own I.D.
All that, right there, without the other two things, is fine. Pushing it a bit, but it's acceptable. Add in remote transformation AND two elements, that pushes my suspension of disbelief too far.
00-Raiser
2010-05-14, 00:10
making her own I.D.
It never said she made her device. Lutecia's the only one said to have made intelligent devices. Come to think of it, more so than Rio, Lutecia is the one pulling new skills out of her ass at random moments.
It never said she made her device. Lutecia's the only one said to have made intelligent devices. Come to think of it, more so than Rio, Lutecia is the one pulling new skills out of her ass at random moments.
Honestly, the making of an I.D. doesn't bother me. People have made them in the past. They're just REALLY expensive to make, that's all.
And didn't Rio have her device from the start?
prescience
2010-05-14, 00:46
Yes, Vivio was saying how she was jealous because she wasn't allowed to have her own one yet.
Looking back at chapter 11, I can see why you find the remote transformation thing bad. When I first read it, I assumed the device was by the poolside, but clearly it's quite some way away from the onsen. Considering the setup in StrikerS 16/17, it does seem a bit discongruous.
But I'm not sure why everyone's making such a big deal about the whole two elements thing here. Where is it stated that having any elemental affinity is rare, anyway? My side-material-fu is rather weak at the moment...
Maybe the dual elements thing will come in handy if she wants to solo in Diablo... :p
NorthernFallout
2010-05-14, 01:43
I have this feeling that Vivid is now pretty much something that Tsuzuki throws in whatever he thinks is cool.
Perhaps in his mind, the only way to keep Rio and Corona relevant is to give them powers that could help them stand out, even by a bit, amongst this rather varied team.This, people. It's almost glaringly obvious even if I don't read. It's the official equivalent of fanfiction crack.
Looking back at chapter 11, I can see why you find the remote transformation thing bad. When I first read it, I assumed the device was by the poolside, but clearly it's quite some way away from the onsen. Considering the setup in StrikerS 16/17, it does seem a bit discongruous.Diablo... :p[/size]
Well, there is a difference between ten meters and a hundred with solid walls in a AMF-heavy place.
None of what she does so far really bother me, mostly because it seems that, while special, those things aren't particularly useful.
Check that link.
I mean, seriously, if it wasn't for remote transformation (which was never even HINTED at before) and dual elemental wielding, I would have no problem with her.
I don't mean transformation as a problem, Yuuno, Einhart, the Lieze twins and other familiars can do transformations without a device. But for a barrier jacket with a device, how come NO ONE ELSE did it (remote transformation) before her?!
I mean, in StrikerS, the biggest chance was episodes 16 and 17. Nanoha, Fate, Hayate and Signum, NONE of them transformed until they had their devices on hand.
Stuff like that is bothering me.
And elemental control for two elements?! When having even ONE is RARE?!
Those two things bother the hell out of me when it comes to her.
If it was said that people USING elements was rare rather than people HAVING elements as rare, I wouldn't care, I would just think she was flashy.
But you add those two things up with the fact that she's a main character's friend, practices the same type of fighting as Vivio, stronger magic than the main character, adult mode transformation, making her own I.D.
All that, right there, without the other two things, is fine. Pushing it a bit, but it's acceptable. Add in remote transformation AND two elements, that pushes my suspension of disbelief too far.
M'okay, thanks for explaining. I can understand those concerns. I don't necessarily agree with them, but I do understand them.
FlameSparkZ
2010-05-14, 06:22
Oh, and Rio once again is love. Flaming thunder dragons. Yum.
Actually, one dragon is fire, the other is lightning :uhoh:
I don't mean transformation as a problem, Yuuno, Einhart, the Lieze twins and other familiars can do transformations without a device. But for a barrier jacket with a device, how come NO ONE ELSE did it (remote transformation) before her?!
I mean, in StrikerS, the biggest chance was episodes 16 and 17. Nanoha, Fate, Hayate and Signum, NONE of them transformed until they had their devices on hand.
In that "biggest chance" there was a little something called AMF engulfing the HQ :rolleyes:
And elemental control for two elements?! When having even ONE is RARE?!
Those two things bother the hell out of me when it comes to her.
If it was said that people USING elements was rare rather than people HAVING elements as rare, I wouldn't care, I would just think she was flashy.
Not using, but natural conversion.
What's rare is mage with elemental affinity that allows instant conversion of mana into an element (like Fate, Signum and Erio).
Even the booklets mention that one can train into using an element, like Chrono did (which he convinently trained before getting/knowing about Durandal...what a coincidence). :rolleyes:
And so far, we don't know if Rio's Fire and Lightning usage is natural or learned, she ony mentions she can use them both.
00-Raiser
2010-05-14, 07:00
Well, there is a difference between ten meters and a hundred with solid walls in a AMF-heavy place.
This. The taking away of the devices was for the sake of no mage pulling something during the meeting. They were all locked inside a big room after having their devices taken, and I'm sure other precautions were put into place to prevent the use of magic. They could have a jamming signal or something to prevent remote transformations.
Or a more simple explanation: since it's been so many years after StrikerS, remote transforming is a new feature added to the latest devices.
Not using, but natural conversion.
What's rare is mage with elemental affinity that allows instant conversion of mana into an element (like Fate, Signum and Erio).
Even the booklets mention that one can train into using an element, like Chrono did (which he convinently trained before getting/knowing about Durandal...what a coincidence). :rolleyes:
And so far, we don't know if Rio's Fire and Lightning usage is natural or learned, she ony mentions she can use them both.
Yeah, I never recall seeing it said that normal mages can't use elemental magic, just that being able to use a certain element naturally easily was rare. We just never see any mage that doesn't have a conversion ability using elemental magic. Doesn't mean they can't use it, but perhaps it's too timely and inefficient compared to big beams?
So what's Rio's character flaw?
Cheers.
FlameSparkZ
2010-05-14, 08:36
So what's Rio's character flaw?
Cheers.
She doesn't have a tragic past?
...then again, not enough character development to know yet. :uhoh:
In that "biggest chance" there was a little something called AMF engulfing the HQ :rolleyes:
Well, okay, you got me there. I did forget about that. But, still, the point stands that NO ONE that has a device was able to use it to remote transform before.
And it was never even HINTED at in ANY material that remote transformation is possible. EVERYONE has had their devices on them at all times.
Hell, Vivio can't even go to adult mode without either Raising or Sacred Heart's help. (Vivio mentioned that Raising Heart and Nanoha had been helping her with it before she got Sacred Heart.)
Not using, but natural conversion.
What's rare is mage with elemental affinity that allows instant conversion of mana into an element (like Fate, Signum and Erio).
Even the booklets mention that one can train into using an element, like Chrono did (which he convinently trained before getting/knowing about Durandal...what a coincidence). :rolleyes:
And so far, we don't know if Rio's Fire and Lightning usage is natural or learned, she ony mentions she can use them both.
Okay 1: Never heard about being able to learn how to use elements. Get me the proof. And 2: Zest didn't have any ability to use fire and was ONLY able to do it when unisoned with Agito, and even he said that he could barely use her flames. And Chrono only was able to use Ice when using Durandall.
Note that Vita never used ice when unisoned with Rein, Signum didn't use Ice or Water (if the two were to mix and cancel each other out a bit). Nanoha NEVER used elements at all, other than blasting the ground and having "rocks fall, everyone dies". Erio and Fate both only have used lightning, Signum has only used fire and Hayate has used ice.
NONE OF THEM HAVE USED ANY ELEMENT OTHER THAN WHAT THEY CAN DO NATURALLY.
Sorry, not yelling, just needed to put that up like that for emphasis.
I have this feeling that Vivid is now pretty much something that Tsuzuki throws in whatever he thinks is cool. That's why we are getting Twin-Element Rio and Golemmancer Corona.
Now if only he decides to stop licking off SRW and walk the Bastard and Guilty Gear way, and thus living up to the Lyrical part of Lyrical Nanoha.
Perhaps in his mind, the only way to keep Rio and Corona relevant is to give them powers that could help them stand out, even by a bit, amongst this rather varied team.
At this point, I am almost glad that Arisa and Suzuka are left untouched.
Nanya, Einhart goes into her adult form with barrier jacket without a device. Yuuno puts on a barrier jacket without a device. Transformation magic is doable in the Nanoha-verse, so I'm going with the "the device wasn't too far away so Rio was able to transform easily." As others have said, it's a bit different than the StrikerS peace conference.
It has been said that forming a barrier jacket takes a bit of effort; if a jacket is purged or detonated, the mage may not reform it in combat because it takes too much mana and effort.
Using two elements, is just an extension of what we know so far. We know it is possible to convert mana into elemental energy, so it makes sense that talented mages, or those that train really hard on it, could possible do spells of two or more elements. A device makes things easier, but mages are learning new spells all the time.
One thing I kinda agree on, is that Rio and Corona's uniqueness does take away a bit from Vivio and Einhart, the latter of which seems particularly boring now. On one hand, I'm glad to see Rio and Corona with interesting abilities, but on the other, it is starting to overshadow Einhart now. Perhaps if this were an anime, I'd get a better feel for "Kaiser Arts."
At this point, I am almost glad that Arisa and Suzuka are left untouched.
Well, we all know everything sensible and sane(or what little of it left anyway) started to crumble to nothing once vivid went the RULE OF COOL COMES FIRST way...
RadiantBeam
2010-05-14, 10:38
After reading the latest chapter of Vivid, I only have one thing to say.... (well, two things)
God, I didn't think I'd miss Arisa and Suzuka this much.
Lutecia is awesome and badass, btw.
FlameSparkZ
2010-05-14, 14:00
Okay 1: Never heard about being able to learn how to use elements. Get me the proof.
Eternal Coffin
(A's DVD6)
Freezing magic set in Durandal. By forcing the temperature in the area to extremely low levels, the purpose of this spell is not to cause death in any targets, but to freeze them completely. As one can tell from the name "Eternal Coffin", when used on a normal living being, the target becomes frozen in a sleep-like state, until the freezing is counteracted by physical means (destruction, heat, etc).
Originally an advanced Over-S Rank spell, but because Durandal was tuned to specialize in freezing magic, and because Chrono himself had also easily handled the study and training for temperature manipulation and Mana conversion, Eternal Coffin was activated in its complete form.
~~~~
Mana Conversion Affinity [Electricity]
Among mages, there are rare cases where individuals possess an innate ability, called a [Mana Conversion Affinity], which allows them to naturally convert Mana directly into a physical energy.
What normally requires regulation via Magic, these abilities allow conversion to occur spontaneously.
It becomes simple to convert one's own Mana into energy, and when Mana is converted intentionally, this can even occur at high efficiency.
An individual can only have one type of affinity.
Among Riot 6 members, Fate and Erio have an [electricity]-type affinity, while Signum has a [flame]-type affinity.
Will this do? :confused:
"An individual can only have one type of affinity." ...so Tsuzuki can't go back on his word without fan rage.
...But there are a couple of ways around it:
One already mentioned, is training to release two elements...and the other, R-A-R-E S-K-I-L-L :rolleyes:
And 2: Zest didn't have any ability to use fire and was ONLY able to do it when unisoned with Agito, and even he said that he could barely use her flames.
In Zest's case he was already reaching the limit of his "borrowed time", also it was Agito doing the "enchanting" on his device.
Note that Vita never used ice when unisoned with Rein, Signum didn't use Ice or Water (if the two were to mix and cancel each other out a bit). Nanoha NEVER used elements at all, other than blasting the ground and having "rocks fall, everyone dies". Erio and Fate both only have used lightning, Signum has only used fire and Hayate has used ice.
Unity-type Device
Also commonly known as a Unison Device.
A device form developed only by Belka, it is a type of device that has taken the design idealogy of the Midchildan Intelligent Device to extremes.
Devices possessing their own wills, and given complete human form and sentience, these devices can "unite" with users to provide Mana control and assistance according to circumstances.
*These devices exceeds other forms greatly in response speed and in the volume of Mana handled; however users suitable for Unison are rare, and much work is required to fine-tune and ensure compatibility towards the disposition of each specific user.
Furthermore, since by nature these devices can cause loss of conciousness and other effects during Unison, these devices have emergency countermeasures set that are independant of the host's awareness, allowing even solitary users to employ these devices on themselves, enhancing Mana usage.
However, at times these devices may "take over" the user and operate autonomously, causing a "Unison accident", so these devices were nearly never manufactured practically.*
During a successful Unison, striking hair or pupil color changes become apparent.
However, whether the appearance after Unison is more similar to the user or the device depends on whether the user can manage the device.
In the event that a user cannot handle the device, the user will lose all control, and will completely take on the appearance of the device.
The part surrounded by *'s was originally ONE sentence.
As mentioned, Unison Divices only assist their user/master by boosting and managing large amounts of magic, they don't grant their affinity to them.
Also, there was a scene where Rein supports Signum by using "ice daggers" (just calling them that) to counter Agito's fire bullets during the fight with Zest.
God, I didn't think I'd miss Arisa and Suzuka this much.
They're going to a magic school, what did you expect? :heh::heh:
Rising Dragon
2010-05-14, 14:11
I think what Nanya's trying to get at is that if any of us had attempted to make someone with Rio's characteristics, such as the two elements and the adult mode and being Vivio's good friend, that character would've immediately been condemned as a Mary Sue. But now...
The weird thing to me is with Rio and Corona having such flashy magic style, Vivio come almost as the normal one :heh:
I think what Nanya's trying to get at is that if any of us had attempted to make someone with Rio's characteristics, such as the two elements and the adult mode and being Vivio's good friend, that character would've immediately been condemned as a Mary Sue. But now...
Would it?
Rio so far hasn't shown us anything a tenth as outrageous as most of the mellower char in OC thread.
So far she is all flash, no substance. Let's see if her 'dragons' aren't just forms she put there to be awesome and so on.
FlameSparkZ
2010-05-14, 14:28
I think what Nanya's trying to get at is that if any of us had attempted to make someone with Rio's characteristics, such as the two elements and the adult mode and being Vivio's good friend, that character would've immediately been condemned as a Mary Sue. But now...
True, it'd be shot down faster than Nanoha can say "Divine Buster" :heh:
But this is a canon character...can't do anything about it. ;)
Also, it's funny how she calls it "adult mode" but Rio only gets a little older :heh:
*wonders how Corona's adult mode is like* :rolleyes:
Eternal Coffin
(A's DVD6)
Freezing magic set in Durandal. By forcing the temperature in the area to extremely low levels, the purpose of this spell is not to cause death in any targets, but to freeze them completely. As one can tell from the name "Eternal Coffin", when used on a normal living being, the target becomes frozen in a sleep-like state, until the freezing is counteracted by physical means (destruction, heat, etc).
Originally an advanced Over-S Rank spell, but because Durandal was tuned to specialize in freezing magic, and because Chrono himself had also easily handled the study and training for temperature manipulation and Mana conversion, Eternal Coffin was activated in its complete form.
~~~~
Mana Conversion Affinity [Electricity]
Among mages, there are rare cases where individuals possess an innate ability, called a [Mana Conversion Affinity], which allows them to naturally convert Mana directly into a physical energy.
What normally requires regulation via Magic, these abilities allow conversion to occur spontaneously.
It becomes simple to convert one's own Mana into energy, and when Mana is converted intentionally, this can even occur at high efficiency.
An individual can only have one type of affinity.
Among Riot 6 members, Fate and Erio have an [electricity]-type affinity, while Signum has a [flame]-type affinity.
Will this do? :confused:
... You have GOT to be kidding me...
It's so "All there in the manual" that they didn't even BOTHER to put it in the Sound Stages OR the manga?! Only in the pamphlets that come with the Sound Stages which, BTW, are something that we're NEVER GOING TO SEE?!
...But if that's the case...
WHY THE HECK DID THEY STATE THAT ELEMENTAL ABILITIES ARE RARE?! :frustrated:
There is NO POINT to stating something is rare if EVERYONE can learn how to use it!
Rio so far hasn't shown us anything a tenth as outrageous as most of the mellower char in OC thread.
Which is WHY I absolutely LOATHE OCs to begin with!
NorthernFallout
2010-05-14, 15:35
Some of us try to create characters that doesn't take the Mary Sue formula in calculation that riddles the series, to actually do some variation and not use the same recipe and CCs 1000x times until it's so mangled and incredibly boring I cry myself to sleep every night. Just sayin'.
On a completely different note, I do like dual wielding Cyphia a lot.
WHY THE HECK DID THEY STATE THAT ELEMENTAL ABILITIES ARE RARE?! :frustrated:
There is NO POINT to stating something is rare if EVERYONE can learn how to use it!
The problem is that you're misunderstanding the exact nature of what's going on here. Elemental "Affinities" are rare; it's like a talent. Someone like Fate can easily and instantly convert mana into electricity, and do it fairly efficiently.
But almost anyone, with varying amounts of training and focus, can convert mana into *any* element they want. You could have someone who is able to do all we've seen so far (fire, ice, electricity, earth, etc.). However, they won't be as quick or efficient with it as someone like Fate is.
Fate spends 50mp to do a 200 damage lightning spell, because she has a natural affinity for electricity.
However, I don't have a natural affinity, and instead spend years working on that spell. I can ultimate cast the same spell for 100mp, but doing only 150 damage.
An *affinity* is rare. But almost anyone can train to use elements. Most may not bother, due to lower mana, or finding their most efficient means of mana-to-effect spells and specialize in those. So grunts fire their standard staves, Vice shoots his sniper rifle, etc.
Rio trained to be able to use the fire/lightning spells she has, but it says nothing about how efficient she is with them. We have yet to see all she has, and what she can do with them; perhaps she tires fairly quickly under constant use.
Also, casting time could be a factor. Nanoha focuses on her beams, because she can fire them off rapidly, like Fate with her photon lancer. It's probably why people specialize, because it's better to go with your strengths with what quick casting spells you have and finish your opponent fast, rather than have to stand still or spend quite a while focusing to convert mana into an element for a different spell.
Although, I have to admit, if I was a mage in the Nanohaverse, I'd probably train to use at least one spell for each element, just to be versatile. Though that could take me decades to learn how to properly convert mana into all forms because I don't have a natural affinity.
Some of us try to create characters that doesn't take the Mary Sue formula in calculation that riddles the series, to actually do some variation and not use the same recipe and CCs 1000x times until it's so mangled and incredibly boring I cry myself to sleep every night. Just sayin'.
On a completely different note, I do like dual wielding Cyphia a lot.
Unless your handle is Black Dragon on FF.Net, I auto-hate OCs.
Hell, I hate my OWN OCs, which is why, when I do make them, I don't push anything "special" with them.
@Kaijo: Still, there's no point in stating, in canon, by characters, that having X ability is rare, and then go and put in a booklet, which will NEVER be seen by most people, that anyone can do X.
One or the other, not BOTH!
Go look up "Magic A is Magic A" on TVTropes.
I'll keep it simple for everyone.
Magic A is Magic A basically states "Things don't always have to make sense. They do, however, have to be consistent with what has been seen and said within the series itself."
Blank-Mage
2010-05-14, 15:46
I break your serious discussion!
So, what's Nanoha's affinity? Cause I'm pretty sure 'ludicrously huge pink blast' isn't an element.
Bananoha
2010-05-14, 15:54
@Kaijo: Still, there's no point in stating, in canon, by characters, that having X ability is rare, and then go and put in a booklet, which will NEVER be seen by most people, that anyone can do X.I'm sure the Japanese know. It's just not well-known to the non-Japanese folk. :>yo aers, get someone to translate the Japanese wiki, ololol.And Cypha is one awesome yet insane lady. I hope for more Arnage in future chapters~
@Kaijo: Still, there's no point in stating, in canon, by characters, that having X ability is rare, and then go and put in a booklet, which will NEVER be seen by most people, that anyone can do X.
It's "Rare," not "Nearly Nonexistent."
And perhaps for most people it's just too much trouble to be worth it. When you're focused on combat, are you going to spend years to master one spell you don't have an affinity for? Or are you going to focus on the magic you do well?
Consider Hayate, who needs incantations to do multiple elements. It's part of the reason she sucks in close, and is restricted to being a long-range wide-area type. She has a lot of mana available, but her conversions aren't efficient, so she focuses on being an artillery piece.
I break your serious discussion!
So, what's Nanoha's affinity? Cause I'm pretty sure 'ludicrously huge pink blast' isn't an element.
It's never stated, other than for the movie when they list her as an Air/Cannon type, which I assume air means she flies. On the other hand, I take it as a "holy" or "light" type element, considering her spell names: Divine Buster, Divine Shooter, Starlight Breaker, Sacred Cluster, etc.
Or you could say her attacks are basic magic attacks. Or perhaps a more literal "Air" interpretation, in that she's charging air with magic and shooting that, and it's her natural mana conversion that gives it a pink color.
FlameSparkZ
2010-05-14, 16:20
... You have GOT to be kidding me...
It's so "All there in the manual" that they didn't even BOTHER to put it in the Sound Stages OR the manga?! Only in the pamphlets that come with the Sound Stages which, BTW, are something that we're NEVER GOING TO SEE?!
Yeah...it's called merchandising :heh::heh::heh:
Which is WHY I absolutely LOATHE OCs to begin with!
Now now...not all OC's are H4XX or bad :heh:
And in some (or maybe most?) cases, the viewer/fan wants to place an avatar of themselves into the series...and fastest way to interact with the canon characters is through rare abilities, talent or connections to them :heh: (there are other ways but these are the most common)
Heck, I started a couple of my OCs with those options :heh:
But as long as you explain the story right, and make them fit in a "not so different" alternate universe without making them insanely stronger than the main characters, it's fine...
Honestly, I'm not that good of a writer, english isn't my main language and my fanfic/OC story (BreakerS (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=2342938&postcount=6494)) started in bits and pieces rather than a well thought story from the start because I started it for fun.
Then I moved to "re-telling StrikerS with my OCs added" filling some blank spots(like a fight with Cinque in Scaglietti's hideout near the end of the series)...and it went well.
Sure, I got "scolded" a couple of times *looks at Keroko*, but I still worked on it because I was starting to pave out a decent story for them after "StrikerS arc" was over.
I've been at it for quite a while now, and don't update it as often as I wanted...but I'm still determined to finish it :D
Goldsmith
2010-05-14, 17:18
http://i44.tinypic.com/2n8zgbp.jpg
DezoPenguin
2010-05-14, 17:22
http://i44.tinypic.com/2n8zgbp.jpg
That...pretty accurately reflects the way some people judge it. Particularly when they start applying it to canon characters. Sometimes, people seem to think "Mary Sue" is a synonym for "protagonist."
... You have GOT to be kidding me...
It's so "All there in the manual" that they didn't even BOTHER to put it in the Sound Stages OR the manga?! Only in the pamphlets that come with the Sound Stages which, BTW, are something that we're NEVER GOING TO SEE?!
Not to worry there are translators out there... who'll get around to actually translating the thing ten years from now!
00-Raiser
2010-05-14, 18:33
One thing I kinda agree on, is that Rio and Corona's uniqueness does take away a bit from Vivio and Einhart, the latter of which seems particularly boring now. On one hand, I'm glad to see Rio and Corona with interesting abilities, but on the other, it is starting to overshadow Einhart now. Perhaps if this were an anime, I'd get a better feel for "Kaiser Arts."
That's probably why Einhart is going to be showing off some sort of mid-range technique in her fight with Vivio. While it was smart for Vivio to focus on magic attacks since she knows she's weaker in martial arts, it was naive of her to think melee was all Einhart could do.
I'm actually rooting for Einhart to win that particular duel.
Rio and Corona's battle should be interesting. On the one hand, Rio's Fire and Electric are both weak against Rock, but then again she has Fighting attacks too. Could go either way :heh:
Also, Corona confirmed for final boss! DANCE PUPPETS, DANCE!
Among Riot 6 members, Fate and Erio have an [electricity]-type affinity, while Signum has a [flame]-type affinity
Hm, Hayate isn't listed there, so that means her ice spell is an example of a regular mage using elemental magic. So there is another precedent.
*wonders how Corona's adult mode is like* :rolleyes:
Well, if she had one I'm sure she'd have used it in this battle. Since she admits to only being good at one thing, I doubt she'd have the talents to pull it off. Oh well, that's what fan art is for! (http://i40.tinypic.com/2mnk55c.jpg)
WHY THE HECK DID THEY STATE THAT ELEMENTAL ABILITIES ARE RARE?! :frustrated:
They didn't. They said having natural affinities are rare. Compare it to artistic talents: some people are born talented and can put brush to canvas and create masterpieces with little effort. Then there are those who don't have this natural talent and have to work and train hard to gain the skills needed to create breathtaking works of art.
What Kaijo said.
@Kaijo: Still, there's no point in stating, in canon, by characters, that having X ability is rare, and then go and put in a booklet, which will NEVER be seen by most people, that anyone can do X.
One or the other, not BOTH!
Go look up "Magic A is Magic A" on TVTropes.
I'll keep it simple for everyone.
Magic A is Magic A basically states "Things don't always have to make sense. They do, however, have to be consistent with what has been seen and said within the series itself."
Sorry Nanya, but the inconsistenty is in your head. Magic A is indeed Magic A, but you're equating Magic B with Magic A as well.
In this case Magic A = elemental affinity and Magic B = being able to use an element. It is A that is rare, and B that anyone can do. You don't need A to do B. A just makes it much much easier.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-14, 18:34
That...pretty accurately reflects the way some people judge it. Particularly when they start applying it to canon characters. Sometimes, people seem to think "Mary Sue" is a synonym for "protagonist."
Well, technically (at least in the beginning) a protagonist is pretty much a Mary Sue anyway. Nanoha herself certainly started out as one: loving family, two best friends, extremely powerful even by the standards of the TSAB, befriends pretty much anyone she comes across (methods not withstanding), and she worries more about others than herself.
...
Actually, now that I think about it, how much has Nanoha developed since season one? :twitch: All that really changed is that she was injured between A's and StrikerS, which made her more cautious and determined to keep people from getting hurt like she did, unless I missed something.
00-Raiser
2010-05-14, 18:40
The term Mary Sue isn't even being used correctly. It's impossible for a canon character to be a Mary Sue. Mary Sue is a term for fan made characters inserted into works via fanfiction or what not. I believe it started with a Star Trek fic...
The term Mary Sue isn't even being used correctly. It's impossible for a canon character to be a Mary Sue. Mary Sue is a term for fan made characters inserted into works via fanfiction or what not. I believe it started with a Star Trek fic...
Iirc, it started with a *Star Trek Canon character named MARY SUE*.
.. yeah.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-14, 18:44
The term Mary Sue isn't even being used correctly. It's impossible for a canon character to be a Mary Sue. Mary Sue is a term for fan made characters inserted into works via fanfiction or what not. I believe it started with a Star Trek fic...
Well, technically, isn't any canon a character a Mary Sue at one point? They're more or less fan made characters until they become an anime or manga of some sort.
Canon characters having Sue traits are classified as canon Sues. Sol Badguy from Guilty Gear is a rare likeable example. On the other hand, Naraku from Inuyasha and Sasuke from Naruto are of the overbearing species.
Now now...not all OC's are H4XX or bad :heh:
Like I've said, unless your tag is Black Dragon on FF.Net, I auto-hate any OC that's made.
And, I'm done arguing since I'm in the wrong with this.
*Sighs*
I still loathe Rio.
Blank-Mage
2010-05-14, 20:59
Actually, now that I think about it, how much has Nanoha developed since season one? :twitch: All that really changed is that she was injured between A's and StrikerS, which made her more cautious and determined to keep people from getting hurt like she did, unless I missed something.
Which is why Nanoha isn't actually that high on the popularity chart. Hell, the entire Riot 6 team is comprised of deep characters with interesting conflicts. Be it Lightning squads' feelings of rejection and loneliness, Hayate and her knights feelings for each other, Subaru's urge to protect and her abilities as a cyborg, or Teana's feelings of worthlessness. Nanoha is.... kinda flat by comparison. Although the addition of her near-death experience was a nice touch, it happened off camera between seasons, so it loses some value. Come to think of it, I'd say it was more development for Vita than Nanoha. Nanoha's only real humanizing traits appeared after Vivio got kidnapped.
I still loathe Rio.
And that's okay.
Which is why Nanoha isn't actually that high on the popularity chart. Hell, the entire Riot 6 team is comprised of deep characters with interesting conflicts. Be it Lightning squads' feelings of rejection and loneliness, Hayate and her knights feelings for each other, Subaru's urge to protect and her abilities as a cyborg, or Teana's feelings of worthlessness. Nanoha is.... kinda flat by comparison. Although the addition of her near-death experience was a nice touch, it happened off camera between seasons, so it loses some value. Come to think of it, I'd say it was more development for Vita than Nanoha.
tl;dr, nanoha is a useless cannon only good for her starlight breaker appeal. or the other-half-of-the-yuri-pandling-that-a-good-number-of-the-community-gets-off-of appeal, if that's what rocks your boat, but let's not go there. she's just like a little child with a very big water gun. She was then, and still is now. ZOMG MAGIC BACKLASH tried to make her seem less out-of-that-world at first, but we all know it got nullified once they brought in the Blaster system with its higher output(never mind the strain placed on her body after that, because she's the titular chara. and we all know how that goes for titular charas - what doesn't kill you only makes you more h4xx).
lol somehow I was fine with what blank-mage said, but now I feel the need to defend Nanoha...but I'll resist...temptation.
Though give Nanoha some credit, because last I checked, she's quite popular. And I check often.:p
*drifts away slowly*
[How i ended up making a new post instead of editting my previous one i have no idea]
Unless your handle is Black Dragon on FF.Net, I auto-hate OCs.
Hell, I hate my OWN OCs, which is why, when I do make them, I don't push anything "special" with them.
is that the putrid stench of double standard-ing i smell? I don't even know where to start pointing at, so i'm not going to.
Go look up "Magic A is Magic A" on TVTropes.
seriously, bringing TVTropes into a serious discussion? that place is filled with the most biased, stereotyping misleading classifications that inaccurately pigeonholes things just so they can slap a tag on it even if there's only a very vague similarity to a trope. I'm pulling a Godwin's Law here, TVTropes version.
So, what's Nanoha's affinity? Cause I'm pretty sure 'ludicrously huge pink blast' isn't an element.
she probably doesn't have an affinity, just like 99% of the magi we've seen so far in the series. Just because she's the titular character doesn't mean she HAS to have every rare ability in the universe.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-14, 21:47
she probably doesn't have an affinity, just like 99% of the magi we've seen so far in the series. Just because she's the titular character doesn't mean she HAS to have every rare ability in the universe.
Why would she even have an affinity? I was under the impression that she only had the magical potential and synced well with Raising Heart, so she ended up being extremely powerful in the "blast the ever living hell out of anything" affinity, if one exists.
Though granted, she does have some qualities I enjoy. A childhood that isn't screwed up, for one. And she got some decent development with the Vivio arc in StrikerS.
is that the putrid stench of double standard-ing i smell? I don't even know where to start pointing at, so i'm not going to.
What? Because I auto-hate OC's?
I do.
More than a decade of seeing OCs come and go with 98% (or higher) of them being ungodly overpowered and uninteresting would make ANYONE hate OCs.
Sorry for the double-post, but I'm going to say this here...
*Deep breath*
Okay, for all the people who make OCs, I'm sorry if I offended you with what I've said. Just, years of bad OCs have left a bad taste in my mouth. So, again, I'm sorry.
I know, some of you might be thinking that this is sarcasm from me and that I don't really mean it.
I can't say anything to that, but you should know that I didn't intend to insult anyone here.
That's all I can say on this matter.
They really should start capitalising on the the other half of Nanoha's name.
Takamachi Nanoha.
Force is a golden opportunity for them to showcase her family sword skills, since you know... she's getting a sword weapon in Force. Will be severely disappointed if they miss out on this chance.
Natch.
Blank-Mage
2010-05-15, 01:16
They really should start capitalising on the the other half of Nanoha's name.
Takamachi Nanoha.
Force is a golden opportunity for them to showcase her family sword skills, since you know... she's getting a sword weapon in Force. Will be severely disappointed if they miss out on this chance.
Natch.
Regarding Nanoha's family, sure, I wouldn't mind. But Nanoha suddenly dropping her decade or two of mage training for a sword just wouldn't work. Besides, doesn't Force have enough swords already?
Lord Pertinax
2010-05-15, 01:37
Regarding Nanoha's family, sure, I wouldn't mind. But Nanoha suddenly dropping her decade or two of mage training for a sword just wouldn't work. Besides, doesn't Force have enough swords already?
There's never enough swords. More swords, more skulls, more blood, more praises :D ...more auto inspired madess too.
No, I also agree here, I can't see Nanoha using a sword.
fukarming
2010-05-15, 01:58
Regarding Nanoha's family, sure, I wouldn't mind. But Nanoha suddenly dropping her decade or two of mage training for a sword just wouldn't work. Besides, doesn't Force have enough swords already?
The production staff needs alot of work if they want to make Nanoha using the "Takamachi" name. I think the setting of Nanoha is that she do not practice Takamachi-ryu and sucks at sports. (That's why she is a bombardment type)
Though I think it is a good idea to include more the Takamachi name into the franchise, like sending Vivio to Midori-ya to practice combat arts: :heh:
Laevatein
2010-05-15, 02:22
Iirc, it started with a *Star Trek Canon character named MARY SUE*.
.. yeah.
No, the original Mary Sue was from the fanfic "A Trekkie's Tale", and was a parody of the self-insert characters common in Trek fic at the time.
Regarding Nanoha's family, sure, I wouldn't mind. But Nanoha suddenly dropping her decade or two of mage training for a sword just wouldn't work. Besides, doesn't Force have enough swords already?
There's never enough swords. More swords, more skulls, more blood, more praises :D ...more auto inspired madess too.
No, I also agree here, I can't see Nanoha using a sword.
You guys did note the back part of my post right? It's already confirmed that Nanoha is going to be using a sword device in Force. The only thing not confirmed is how she'll use it.
Also, using a sword doesn't mean a stoppage to beam spam. Raising Heart is now a proxy weapon that can shoot on its own. Nanoha is essentially a living, breathing Gundam now.
Cheers.
LoweGear
2010-05-15, 06:46
You guys did note the back part of my post right? It's already confirmed that Nanoha is going to be using a sword device in Force. The only thing not confirmed is how she'll use it.
Technically she got a cannon that only doubles as a sword: it's primary function is still long range attack, and not melee combat. And given the size of the Strike Cannon, it's unlikely she'll be able to apply any of the Takamachi's more exquisite moves with it.
Unless I'm missing something and she's getting a weapon asides from the Strike Cannon...
Technically she got a cannon that only doubles as a sword: it's primary function is still long range attack, and not melee combat. And given the size of the Strike Cannon, it's unlikely she'll be able to apply any of the Takamachi's more exquisite moves with it.
Unless I'm missing something and she's getting a weapon asides from the Strike Cannon...
It is indeed the Strike Cannon, and since Vita's one is not yet ready, Nanoha's one is the only one of its kind so far. It just seems odd that they'll emphasise so much on the secondary mode if they don't plan on having Nanoha use it.
Natch.
LoweGear
2010-05-15, 09:00
Well, it is nice to have a secondary function that focuses on melee combat, since Nanoha seems to get tied up in melee alot of the time. The type of sword that Nanoha has with the Strike Cannon though is a design that seems more for emergencies than one exclusively designed for actual combat, like Laevatein or the Dividers. The Strike Cannon in melee is mentioned to also act as a lance, which seems to fit Nanoha's preference for stabbing better (see Accel Charger).
Lowe's not making Tactical Arms references to the Strike Cannon's range/melee mix? You disappoint me!
LoweGear
2010-05-15, 09:58
Only if the Strike Cannon was a gatling gun :P
Lord Pertinax
2010-05-15, 11:47
You guys did note the back part of my post right? It's already confirmed that Nanoha is going to be using a sword device in Force. The only thing not confirmed is how she'll use it.
Also, using a sword doesn't mean a stoppage to beam spam. Raising Heart is now a proxy weapon that can shoot on its own. Nanoha is essentially a living, breathing Gundam now.
Cheers.
Mmmm, that's interesting. Blood...a lot of it. It'll be good to see then.
00-Raiser
2010-05-15, 12:31
It's already confirmed that Nanoha is going to be using a sword device in Force.
Actually, we still don't know if anything in Force Next will appear in the manga itself.
Also, anyone working on translating the new Force Dimension?
So it finally hit me what Strike Cannon reminds me of. :D Temjin's weapon from Virtual On. :heh: A BFS that is a cannon as well. Hell, the weapons and modes are similar in design. It would really tickle my fancy if they show Nanoha entering the scene surfing on it.
Virtual On Marz Gameplay (Surfboard move as finishing move) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46GjCAZv-ic)
The SRW Version (I wish they didn't give them voices...) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDd6hqlwUlQ)
Cheers. :D
00-Raiser
2010-05-15, 16:07
I was thinking more the ruga lancers from Fafner myself. I can see Nanoha stabbing it into something, opening it into cannon mode and blasting directly into it.
itanshi1
2010-05-16, 00:26
Needs more Gar.
Try stabbing through someone and blowing the expletive out of someone else then destroying the first person with the heat dispersal.
*returns behind the laptop bruised, dirty but with a shit-eating grin on his face*
Entry cost: 35 euros.
Extra equipment cost: 85 euros
Tallying the bodycount at the end of the final battle and realizing you killed half a faction? Priceless.
I love larping!
So what's Rio's character flaw?
Cheers.
Personality or powerwise? Either way, not much info to go on. So far she seems pretty carefree, not treating her battle with Corona really serious. Her magic is even more gray area, so I can't really comment on that yet. Next chapter might provide some answers there.
It's so "All there in the manual" that they didn't even BOTHER to put it in the Sound Stages OR the manga?! Only in the pamphlets that come with the Sound Stages which, BTW, are something that we're NEVER GOING TO SEE?!
DVD's, technically. And since when have the Japanese ever cared for their western fans?
...But if that's the case...
WHY THE HECK DID THEY STATE THAT ELEMENTAL ABILITIES ARE RARE?! :frustrated:
There is NO POINT to stating something is rare if EVERYONE can learn how to use it!
Affinity, not ability. The difference between the two is quite crucial, as one is natural talent to the point where even an untrained kid could make lightning without any discernible effort (Erio in the manga) whereas the other requires the typical 'hard work' shtick.
On the flipside, Rio might also be a retcon. Rarely a pretty sight, but very common. Newer canon overrides the old and all.
They really should start capitalising on the the other half of Nanoha's name.
Takamachi Nanoha.
Force is a golden opportunity for them to showcase her family sword skills, since you know... she's getting a sword weapon in Force. Will be severely disappointed if they miss out on this chance.
Natch.
*scratches head* Hadn't we previously established that the NEXT stuff had little to nothing to do with Force at all?
RadiantBeam
2010-05-17, 09:52
DVD's, technically. And since when have the Japanese ever cared for their western fans?
Rhetorical question, I know, but I shall answer it anyway because I can't resist: never. Or maybe a couple of times, but very, very rarely.
On the flipside, Rio might also be a retcon. Rarely a pretty sight, but very common. Newer canon overrides the old and all.
If Rio is a retcon, then I get the feeling that a lot of beliefs in how the MGLN system of magic and affinity works is going to be turned on its head. It also depends on what exactly she retcons, but I suppose we'll have to wait and see how her fight with Corona goes before we figure anything out about her.
Rhetorical question, I know, but I shall answer it anyway because I can't resist: never. Or maybe a couple of times, but very, very rarely.
.
They may only care for the extra 100 yens they can bring in their wallet. As for creative output? LOL.
NorthernFallout
2010-05-17, 10:21
If Rio is a retcon, then I get the feeling that a lot of beliefs in how the MGLN system of magic and affinity works is going to be turned on its head.I foresee Unholy Rage, endless magic discussions and strings of numbers.
*grabs popcorn and pillow*
Key Board
2010-05-17, 10:30
I'm not sure if I have ever heard a thing such as affinity before
but it was stated somewhere that Fate and Erio have electric conversion trait. Signum has fire conversion. This trait is apparently genetic and you can't do much to change it.
Vivio's friend is unusual because she has two elemental conversion traits.
You do know that that Nanoha's author is good friends with Type Moon's Takeuchi right?
It's quite possible that Nanoha's author might have been inspired by Fate Stay Zero's Kiritsugu. (A man with 2 elemental affinities) Even in that universe having more than one elemental attribute is unusual. Rin Tohsaka has all 5 elements, by the way, but she choses to abandon that and specialize in Gandr
I foresee Unholy Rage, endless magic discussions and strings of numbers.
*grabs popcorn and pillow*
Ehh, retcons don't work like that. If Rio really does retcon the 'only one affinity' thing, than that's all it retcons. All other magic still works the same.
LoweGear
2010-05-17, 11:57
At the most basic though, It should also be remembered that even amongst the cast, Rio having dual affinities came as quite a shock to most of them, indicating that yes even amongst themselves the idea of a person having two affinities is kind of rare, perhaps even unheard of.
I myself have interpreted the "can only have one kind of affinity" as a general "layman's" viewpoint in light of Rio's reveleation, a gross oversimplification that leaves out the "technically you can have two affinities but it's rare it might as well not exist" kind of description.
Michael Brazier
2010-05-17, 13:06
Does anyone know which issues of Vivid and Force are being collected in the first volumes?
For Force, it's till chapter 4 (included).
I have not yet seen the first volume of Vivid (nor do i care to find it).
00-Raiser
2010-05-17, 17:48
At the most basic though, It should also be remembered that even amongst the cast, Rio having dual affinities came as quite a shock to most of them, indicating that yes even amongst themselves the idea of a person having two affinities is kind of rare, perhaps even unheard of.
Remember, it never said Rio had two affinities (natural talents), she's just able to use two elements (which can be done with training). Their shocked/impressed reactions are probably amazement that Rio trained hard enough/is skillful enough to use two.
I don't see any retcons here, folks.
Moon Runes for Rio's Bio from the Japanese wikia.
If someone can give a more accurate translation than what I'm getting from Google, it would be appreciated.
ヴィヴィオの同級生。明るくてノリのいい性格。自分専用のインテリ型デバイス・ソルを持ってい る。
頭の上にリボンがあり八重歯とショートヘアーが特徴。
ヴィヴィオとコロナと出会ったのは3年生の学期末だったが既に親友となっている。
格闘魔法戦用に自己流で身体強化魔法の「大人モード」を組んだ。 ストライクアーツとは違うリオの実家に由来する格闘技を使う。 炎と電気の両方の変換資質持ち。(Memory;11)
Bananoha
2010-05-17, 19:27
Poking around that wiki and poking some people who know runes~
変換資質 = conversion potential
魔力変換資質 = natural affinity/conversion
変換資質持ち = obtaining conversion from what I've been told
So based on that wiki entry, Rio/Lio is just learning. I'd still wait out for future chapters to see if she actually does have a natural affinity for either element.
I mean even Cypha sees that (http://piclair.com/data/33fd6.jpg) Signum can easily use flame-type magic (http://piclair.com/data/gugah.jpg), but she doesn't know that she's a natural at it. Vivio might not know or whoever said that thing.
Vivio was in Nanoha-mode for a bit, using Divine Buster + Quick Bind.
Interesting that Teana's shots are faster than Nanoha's.
Which bodes for Tea having a reasonable chance at winning. Nanoha's supposed to have taught her Starlight breaker [so they both have the same end move barring the unlikely use of Blaster 1-3] and she's still got her Silhouette decoys.
Faster speed and Nanoha's going to have to tank hits. They may be weaker but she's getting more of them from both being faster and being able to spawn decoys to reduce the number of Nanoha's hits.
So it comes down to head games and patience.
Mind games aside, I really can't see Nanoha losing in the first round. lol
Teana's a decent tactician, you'll have to give her credit for that. It's also about time Nanoha reaped the rewards of her teachings to them - to beat a stronger opponent at what you're stronger at (http://www.onemanga.com/Magical_Girl_Lyrical_Nanoha_StrikerS/11/23/).
RadiantBeam
2010-05-17, 21:47
Also taking into consideration that for a time Nanoha personally mentored Teana herself and taught her one of her prized attacks, I doubt Nanoha's going to just blow right through to a victory. If anything, Teana will definitely give her a run for her money. If she's not at least bruised and battered by the end of the fight, I will be quite disappointed.
*Tries to envision Nanoha being battered and bruised by Teana* I don't see it, but we'll see.
I cant get passed the whole Nanoha domination at age 9 with hardly any training. Add 13yrs to that, and you have a monster...Which is pretty much what Nanoha is. Of course, in a training session I suppose things could be different...Considering it's not last man standing, just who loses all their points first, even if the damage is relatively minor after it's all said and done.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-17, 22:08
It depends on how their battle styles clash.
Nanoha, for example, is very much a blaster-type; she prefers long distance attacks to close range, and while she's a decent enough tacitician, she tends to depend more on her power to completely overload the enemy/friend into submission.
Teana doesn't have that power, but as the last few episodes of StrikerS showed, she's a damned good tacitician when she puts her mind to it, and she knows her own weaknesses. She's also a pretty good mid/close range fighter, so that gives her one small advantage over Nanoha, though it's a tiny one.
Again, I highly doubt Teana will beat Nanoha. But by this point, if Nanoha isn't at least winded from fighting Teana, then Vivid is doing its fights wrong.
The hit points system may be an equalizer, if it counts clean hits that do little real damage equally for all participants. For instance, Nanoha would take much less real damage from a direct Divine Buster hit than Corona, but they might lose the same number of hit points.
Also, other than some vague talk about power limiters for the adults, we don't know what the handicaps for the various combatants are. It's possible that Nanoha and Teana's current power levels aren't as widely different as they normally would be, which might give our lil' gunner an edge she wouldn't otherwise have.
Though I'll agree that even then I have a hard time seeing her outright winning.
00-Raiser
2010-05-17, 22:20
Teana also has several years of being a rather successful Enforcer under her belt. She's part of the what, Atrocious crimes division? I imagine she's had to deal with some pretty hardcore shit while Nanoha just has to train students.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-17, 22:24
Well, that doesn't change the fact that of the two, Nanoha has more firepower and experience (from being in the TSAB as an active member longer). So she definitely has some advantages that Teana doesn't have, even with her time as an Enforcer. And I wouldn't exactly ignore some of the stuff Nanoha's had to deal with, compared to Teana.
It depends. Is Nanoha fighting with a handicap? In a straight-out brawl, I can't see Nanoha losing unless she slipped on a banana peel and shot herself instead.
However, if there are limitations for this fight, and Nanoha is under some sort of handicap, then yeah, by all means, give Teana a moment to shine and display her one quality that can be argued to be better than Nanoha. Strategic planning/fighting.
Cheers.
The difference in power should be too overwhelming. Compare
Nanoha: Teana's long range shots are faster than mine... a direct hit will be dangerous both to me and my teammates...
with
Teana: It is not impossible for Nanoha-san to knock the entire team down in one blast.
Worst case scenarios: significant threat not to be overlooked vs. Total Party Killer. Not even close. Especially since it seems likely that Teana still cannot fly on her own.
Teana also has several years of being a rather successful Enforcer under her belt. She's part of the what, Atrocious crimes division? I imagine she's had to deal with some pretty hardcore shit while Nanoha just has to train students.
I'd say being an enforcer is bad for one's battle ability, as they are mostly doig paperwork or fighting less trained people, while nanoha does need to stay in top-notch form.
Hell, it was pretty much shown in an earlier chapter.
Key Board
2010-05-18, 00:38
変換資質持ち
Actually this means that she DOES have the ability. It does not mean that she's learning it
also
変換資質 = conversion trait
魔力変換資質 = magic conversion trait
Put it this way.
Teana is an Eldar player. The right tool for the right job. Hit them when and where they least expect it. Stealth is good. Etc...
Nanoha is an Ork player. Plan A, more Dakka. Plan B, even MORE Dakka.
Cheers.
There can never be enough Dakka.
MeisterBabylon
2010-05-18, 03:06
I was leaning more along the lines of Chaos Undivided…
Bananoha
2010-05-18, 03:12
Man, I just interpreted that なのはさんに大きいのを撃たれたら一瞬で全滅の危険がある line as "the moment Nanoha-san goes into Lunatic Moodo, we're in big trouble." Actually this means that she DOES have the ability. It does not mean that she's learning itOne friend simply thought "conversion potential" while the other thinks that Lio has some sort of affinity to both elements.
But I don't think it's clearly stated in either chapter whether Lio has one affinity to one element and learning how to handle it with another. Or like someone previously suggested, she could easily convert to both elements but they're not as strong as someone who only has one.
.... I'd like to see Fate or Signum make something big and creature-like just because. Also trying to read runes at 4am again, lolwhatbrain.
Moon Runes for Rio's Bio from the Japanese wikia.
If someone can give a more accurate translation than what I'm getting from Google, it would be appreciated.
ヴィヴィオの同級生。明るくてノリのいい性格。自分専用のインテリ型デバイス・ソルを持ってい る。
頭の上にリボンがあり八重歯とショートヘアーが特徴。
ヴィヴィオとコロナと出会ったのは3年生の学期末だったが既に親友となっている。
格闘魔法戦用に自己流で身体強化魔法の「大人モード」を組んだ。 ストライクアーツとは違うリオの実家に由来する格闘技を使う。 炎と電気の両方の変換資質持ち。(Memory;11)
Take this as you will. My Japanese is a bit rusty now that I'm not taking classes anymore, but I'm fairly confident that I've gotten the meaning of it.
Vivio's classmate, who has a bright and cheerful personality. She possesses her own Intelligent Device "Sol". Her defining features are her short hair, ribbon and double teeth (I'm not sure where the double teeth fit in...). Rio met Vivio and Corona at the end of semester in their third school year and have since become friends. The body strengthening magic "Adult Mode" was formed(self taught) in order to improve/aid her hand to hand magic skills. She is a practitioner not of strike arts, but of a martial arts originating from her parents home. She possesses both fire and lightning affinity (affinity -> lit conversion nature)
Liingo
RadiantBeam
2010-05-18, 08:54
And here I was thinking an Adult Mode was unique to only Vivio and Einhart, yet now all of the girls seem to be learning it and it looks like a very popular form of magic to strengthen the body for hand-to-hand combat. :heh: Ein and Vivio had better start shining fast, they don't stand out too much from the crowd right now.
kha. ffs. STOP. you're being a pain in the ass now that no one understands because half the time you're spewing rubbish. it's enough we deal with your double accounts and ridiculous bull in OCC. we don't want to deal with it here, because frankly, we've had enough of it. stop polluting every other thread with your ludicrous crap.
itanshi1
2010-05-18, 09:32
blah blah blah[/B].
Ironically, you are taking it too seriously. The topic is not out of hand yet and you are not necessarily the one who has to set it straight.
So back on topic, it appears Rio does have an affinity, but I point back to the theories that her affinities are weakened by this bonus.
Additionally Corona does not have an adult mode. Seems an easy misconception at a glance. There is a spread with the adult modes and corona in the manag tho.
However, if there are limitations for this fight, and Nanoha is under some sort of handicap, then yeah, by all means, give Teana a moment to shine and display her one quality that can be argued to be better than Nanoha. Strategic planning/fighting.
Teana also has her Illusion magics as something she's better at than Nanoha.
Even discounting limiters the power levels should be closer than they were. Nanoha has after all had a couple of years off to let her Linker core recover from using Blaster 3.
Whereas Teana's been Fate's most easily available sparring partner and has been active the whole time. And Tea's not one for avoiding getting as much training as possible.
From a genre point of view this feels like the Master and Apprentice squaring off so that the apprentice can prove her training is complete by matching the master in a fight.
MeisterBabylon
2010-05-18, 09:41
kha. ffs. STOP. you're being a pain in the ass now that no one understands because half the time you're spewing rubbish. it's enough we deal with your double accounts and ridiculous bull in OCC. we don't want to deal with it here, because frankly, we've had enough of it. stop polluting every other thread with your ludicrous crap.
Ironically, you are taking it too seriously. The topic is not out of hand yet and you are not necessarily the one who has to set it straight.
So back on topic, it appears Rio does have an affinity, but I point back to the theories that her affinities are weakened by this bonus.
Additionally Corona does not have an adult mode. Seems an easy misconception at a glance. There is a spread with the adult modes and corona in the manag tho.
Kha, that post was totally uncalled for.Post deleted. On hindsight, that was overboard. :heh:
Teana also has her Illusion magics as something she's better at than Nanoha.
Even discounting limiters the power levels should be closer than they were. Nanoha has after all had a couple of years off to let her Linker core recover from using Blaster 3.
Whereas Teana's been Fate's most easily available sparring partner and has been active the whole time. And Tea's not one for avoiding getting as much training as possible.
From a genre point of view this feels like the Master and Apprentice squaring off so that the apprentice can prove her training is complete by matching the master in a fight.
Well, I just NEED to point out that a few chapters ago, when doing physical exercises, only Subaru and Nanoha were not out of breath, Erio, Caro, Teana and Fate were all on the ground gasping for air and Nanoha goes "Hey, do you guys need more time to recover?"
itanshi1
2010-05-18, 10:03
That could mean a couple of things.
-The suggestion that subaru and nanoha are more physically fit.
-That they are more physically inclined towards fitness.
-They did not work out as hard as the others. Or the others worked harder than they did out of fear of them. :D
-Its an unimportant joke not applicable to sciency explanations.
Or Nanoha was the supervisor and didn't participate in the running at all, and Subaru was just being her crazy cyborg self.
Anyhoo, I still don't see why Teana can't win a fight against Nanoha. Teana now has several years of experience under her belt to level that field, and several advantages of her own to balance Nanoha's blatant advantage in firepower and flight.
Speaking of which... is Teana still as ground-bound as ever?
prescience
2010-05-18, 10:27
I asked the same question a month or so back. Someone said that SSX mentioned her having flight capabilities somewhere, but I couldn't find anything on it...
It would be kinda weird if she were still earthbound, though.
Well, could be she simply doesn't have the aptitude to fly. Magic isn't one global skill after all, some are better at shields, some are better at shooting, some have zero skill with either, but rock at boosting their speed.
Corona is a good example of this. She's not that good at a lot of magic skills, but she absolutely dominates in golem creation.
That could mean a couple of things.
-The suggestion that subaru and nanoha are more physically fit.
-That they are more physically inclined towards fitness.
-They did not work out as hard as the others. Or the others worked harder than they did out of fear of them. :D
-Its an unimportant joke not applicable to sciency explanations.
Or that Fate and Teana, being enforcers, are completely out of shapes as they mostly do paperwork and detective job.
Being enforcers really doesn't seem to be a good way to improve or even keep your level.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-18, 14:21
Even without flight, Teana still has some pretty solid strength in other places. Her illusion magic is very powerful, since not even the cyborgs could tell apart the fakes from the real thing during her fight in StrikerS. And as long as she keeps a cool head, she can think at least two steps ahead of her opponent at all times.
Or that Fate and Teana, being enforcers, are completely out of shapes as they mostly do paperwork and detective job.
Being enforcers really doesn't seem to be a good way to improve or even keep your level.
Enforcers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iISyPz5XRyI) theme song, also Fate with a donut and Teana with a flask of whisky.
Or that Fate and Teana, being enforcers, are completely out of shapes as they mostly do paperwork and detective job.
Being enforcers really doesn't seem to be a good way to improve or even keep your level.
Actually, Enforcers do a lot of fieldwork, not only deskwork. They're multi-taskers who aside from field investigations are also the ones often going in first (Chrono, Fate), and are expected to be able to handle themselves alone in such situations as well. That's the main reason Cross Mirage was upgraded with dagger mode.
Actually, Enforcers do a lot of fieldwork, not only deskwork. They're multi-taskers who aside from field investigations are also the ones often going in first (Chrono, Fate), and are expected to be able to handle themselves alone in such situations as well. That's the main reason Cross Mirage was upgraded with dagger mode.
They do long fieldwork, not battle-heavy ones.
Of course they fight and have to be autonomous, but their jobs is to take care of criminals after long investigations, and that means 99% investigation, 1% fighting.
It's even worse when they go undercover and can't practice in fear of showing they are mages.
When you compare that to disaster-relief of Subaru or Nanoha who goes from tactic-battle-testing to at-home-free-to-practice....
Rising Dragon
2010-05-18, 15:21
Though I expect Nanoha to win, I hope that Teana at least puts up a good fight and comes close to winning. I'd rather not see Nanoha become another Goku, where everyone does all the work and training and she still comes out on top.
They do long fieldwork, not battle-heavy ones.
Of course they fight and have to be autonomous, but their jobs is to take care of criminals after long investigations, and that means 99% investigation, 1% fighting.
Idle curiosity, but... source? I'm going of what we've seen, which is Chrono and Fate charging into battle with a bit of investigation on the side a-la James Bond, and Teana being told how much survival is important for an Enforcer. Not to mention how tough it is to become one in the first place.
It's even worse when they go undercover and can't practice in fear of showing they are mages.
Undercover? That's Accous's department. The investigation branch.
itanshi1
2010-05-18, 16:01
well enforcer = fbi, acous = cia?
We've been making those comparisons in the past, I believe. We never really got to a conclusion as far as I recall. There's a lot of vagueness surrounding the title.
We've been making those comparisons in the past, I believe. We never really got to a conclusion as far as I recall. There's a lot of vagueness surrounding the title.
Pretty much.
What we do know is:
1°) The test for being an enforcer is *HARD*
2°) Non-mages can be enforcers
3°) Chrono was the one looking up Precia/Graham, and Fate was the one looking up Jail (for a long time).
Key Board
2010-05-18, 16:54
One friend simply thought "conversion potential" while the other thinks that Lio has some sort of affinity to both elements.
But I don't think it's clearly stated in either chapter whether Lio has one affinity to one element and learning how to handle it with another. Or like someone previously suggested, she could easily convert to both elements but they're not as strong as someone who only has one.
[/SIZE]
conversion potential = magic affinity
in fact, I don't remember the word "magic affinity" ever showing up. Was that something the scanslation came up with?
I only remember that certain people have inherent talents to convert their magic into a specific type of elemental force. Ie: Fate/Erio -> Lightning. Signum -> Fire
But yes, I think it's clearly stated that Lio has two conversion traits. Which is implied to be very unusual.
00-Raiser
2010-05-18, 17:41
And here I was thinking an Adult Mode was unique to only Vivio and Einhart, yet now all of the girls seem to be learning it and it looks like a very popular form of magic to strengthen the body for hand-to-hand combat. :heh: Ein and Vivio had better start shining fast, they don't stand out too much from the crowd right now.
Well, Rio's been shown to be quite skilled when it comes to magic, so I think it's reasonable to believe she could reverse engineer a technique once exposed to it.
So back on topic, it appears Rio does have an affinity, but I point back to the theories that her affinities are weakened by this bonus.
Considering it's from the japanese wiki, the info should be taken with a grain of salt. If it is accurate, well Tsuzuki has contradicted himself many times in the past (guy can't seem to decide on what to call Lutecia's planet) so...
I asked the same question a month or so back. Someone said that SSX mentioned her having flight capabilities somewhere, but I couldn't find anything on it...
It would be kinda weird if she were still earthbound, though.
I recall in SSX Teana was sent out with Wendi... My memory is sketchy but I think they were flying, and don't think Teana was just on Wendi's board...
Bananoha
2010-05-18, 18:03
I never remember the names of the planets. :VAnd as long as she keeps a cool head, she can think at least two steps ahead of her opponent at all times.少し頭冷やそうか（ｒｙconversion potential = magic affinity
in fact, I don't remember the word "magic affinity" ever showing up. Was that something the scanslation came up with?I think people just cut Mana/Magic Conversion Affinity -> Magic Affinity, but actually using the word "affinity".... I have no idea~I only remember that certain people have inherent talents to convert their magic into a specific type of elemental force. Ie: Fate/Erio -> Lightning. Signum -> Fire
But yes, I think it's clearly stated that Lio has two conversion traits. Which is implied to be very unusual.http://piclair.com/data/j1kdh.jpg
>> 変換資質１人１種のみ。
Quite unusual.
Lord Pertinax
2010-05-18, 19:22
I was leaning more along the lines of Chaos Undivided…
ˇPRAISES ALL! ˇPRAISES ALL!
Sorry, I couldn't resist...
My bet is with Nanoha, she's a monster on his own might, but I think that Teana can do something descent in the battle before getting her butt kicked.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-18, 20:36
少し頭冷やそうか（ｒｙ
Translation, please? :heh:
http://piclair.com/data/j1kdh.jpg
>> 変換資質１人１種のみ。
Quite unusual.
So unusual that that basically states that every species is only allowed one elemental conversion per person if they have one?
At least, that's what the translator I put that into is telling me.
Lord Pertinax
2010-05-18, 21:18
his butt kicked? xD
I have the right to screw it up whenever I want to :p
Bananoha
2010-05-18, 23:51
Translation, please? :heh:How about we cool that head of yours down a bit or however that goes.So unusual that that basically states that every species is only allowed one elemental conversion per person if they have one?
At least, that's what the translator I put that into is telling me.魔力変換資質「電気」 – Mana Conversion Affinity [Electricity]
Among mages, there are rare cases where individuals possess an innate ability, called a [Mana Conversion Affinity], which allows them to naturally convert Mana directly into a physical energy. What normally requires regulation via Magic, these abilities allow conversion to occur spontaneously. It becomes simple to convert one’s own Mana into energy, and when Mana is converted intentionally, this can even occur at high efficiency. An individual can only have one type of affinity. Among Riot 6 members, Fate and Erio have an [electricity]-type affinity, while Signum has a [flame]-type affinity.Delicious sauce. (http://asnano.wordpress.com/2007/10/07/nanoha-strikers-dvd-1-booklet/)
Ottocycle, let's Panda Express together. 8D
I am reminded of the lovely Linker Core contradiction. A's booklets say magic is gathered from the air and stored in the Linker Core, StrikerS booklets say magic comes from inside the body and is replenished like normal energy.
Pretty much.
What we do know is:
1°) The test for being an enforcer is *HARD*
2°) Non-mages can be enforcers
3°) Chrono was the one looking up Precia/Graham, and Fate was the one looking up Jail (for a long time).
And several more combat related points, meaning it can pretty much go either way.
Mreh, I'm dropping this debate. We're pretty much piling speculation on top of speculation here.
I am reminded of the lovely Linker Core contradiction. A's booklets say magic is gathered from the air and stored in the Linker Core, StrikerS booklets say magic comes from inside the body and is replenished like normal energy.
Not sure if it's a contradiction either that.
And several more combat related points, meaning it can pretty much go either way.
Mreh, I'm dropping this debate. We're pretty much piling speculation on top of speculation here.
Well, tbh i am not sure Enforcer *needs* to be combat-able, just that it makes their job much easier.
But, yeah, speculation ahoys.
Bananoha
2010-05-19, 02:40
I am reminded of the lovely Linker Core contradiction. A's booklets say magic is gathered from the air and stored in the Linker Core, StrikerS booklets say magic comes from inside the body and is replenished like normal energy.It's A's where it's generated in oneself.
"Magical nutrients are taken from the atmosphere and metabolized into magic. So in order to generate mana, one must obtain the precursors from the atmosphere."
.... Linker Cores have tummies. Or something. Must stop pestering people at this hour.
Edit:
Page claim for aers is a bum. And for Arnage being awesome.
But in StrikerS, magic is replenished by eating food, like normal energy. That's where the contradiction steps in.
I prefer the StrikerS version myself. Mostly because the entire 'drawing energy from another source' always has a small thought nibbling at the back of my head wondering how you can get tired if using another source of energy.
LoweGear
2010-05-19, 08:35
I prefer to think of it this way: Humans also require oxygen to metabolize energy, and oxygen is something that is inhaled into the body, instead of being created inside the body. Mana could just be something that requires the reaction of several external elements to be created by a Linker Core.
I'm thinking that while mana particles themselves are taken from the outside, they're useless if they cannot be metabolized by the Linker Core into useable energy, and much like how you cannot have perpetual energy by rigging a motor unto a generator, you need an external power source for the LC to metamorphose the "inhaled" mana into useable magic energy. Essentially, it might be that Linker Cores can only create mana if they're getting enough external energy (in this case from sugars and nutrients) to metabolize the creation of magic energy.
Just cutting some crack...
Bananoha
2010-05-19, 09:41
^
Friend put it this way: The A's snip describes the physiology of the Linker Core while the StrikerS snip describes the.... nutrition of the Linker Core.But in StrikerS, magic is replenished by eating food, like normal energy. That's where the contradiction steps in.>> For mages, Mana in the atmosphere is linked together in an organ, the “Linker core”, and stored within their body. For quick replenishment, a balanced diet consisting of sugars, carbohydrates and proteins is essential, as are a variety of vitamins and minerals to maintain a healthy body.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-19, 09:43
^
Friend put it this way: The A's snip describes the physiology of the Linker Core while the StrikerS snip describes the.... nutrition of the Linker Core.>>
So what, the Linker Core is now a living thing? Like, a parasite in the body of the mage or something? Because now I'm getting some really, really creepy images about Linker Cores. :twitch:
An organ, technically. So yeah, it's as living a thing as any other organ. Just... a little less cells, and a bit more sparkly energy.
NorthernFallout
2010-05-19, 09:48
Time for an Alien crossover.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-19, 09:58
Linker Core: OM NOM NOM GIVE ME YOUR ENERGY FOOD.
I've always viewed a mage as a kitchen sink with a running faucet. You fill up with mana/water, but as you start running out (by opening the drain), you get drained and have to wait while the faucet fills up the sink again.
Blank-Mage
2010-05-19, 11:45
Nanoha's early medical records revealed what was believed to be the first case of "Glowing Irradiated Benign Super Cancer".
RadiantBeam
2010-05-19, 16:06
Nanoha's early medical records revealed what was believed to be the first case of "Glowing Irradiated Benign Super Cancer".
And thus, we learn the real reason of why Nanoha was never trained to use swords like Kyouya and Miyuki were: everybody thought she was too weak to pick it up and train.
And thus, we learn the real reason of why Nanoha was never trained to use swords like Kyouya and Miyuki were: everybody thought she was too weak to pick it up and train.
I thought it was because she kept beating up her sparring bloody partners while looking friendly :D
Kikaifan
2010-05-19, 20:06
So what, the Linker Core is now a living thing? Like, a parasite in the body of the mage or something? Because now I'm getting some really, really creepy images about Linker Cores. :twitch:
Turns out the Book of Darkness was meant to eat all those magical parasites, but people forgot.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-19, 20:35
I thought it was because she kept beating up her sparring bloody partners while looking friendly :D
She also had a bad habit of yelling out "Starlight Breaker!" before she beat her opponent bloody. Shiro was eventually forced to admit that she was just far too violent and bloodthirsty for the job.
PhoenixFlare
2010-05-20, 01:29
But in StrikerS, magic is replenished by eating food, like normal energy. That's where the contradiction steps in.
I prefer the StrikerS version myself. Mostly because the entire 'drawing energy from another source' always has a small thought nibbling at the back of my head wondering how you can get tired if using another source of energy.
The distinction here possibly lies on the point (which is admittedly confusing, perhaps due to sentence structuring and loss of meaning in translation) being referred to by the booklet. As far as I remember (and understand), A's booklet was referring to [Mana] and the description was referring to how it (the magic source itself) was made, while StrikerS's booklet was referring to [A Mage's Diet], which tells you how food source is harnessed into mana.
Supplementing Lowe's observation (if you will), the description in A's booklet that "magical nutrients are taken from the atmosphere" (per LVD's post) may not truly contradict StrikerS's booklet description where you need food to replenish magical energy.
In a typical ecosystem, the food chain starts with a primary producer of energy source [either photoautotrophs (plants) or chemotrophs (usually some sort of microorganisms)] that derives their energy from sunlight or chemical compounds. In our case, it's very likely to be photoautotrophs (plants) > secondary consumer (herbivores/omnivores) > tertiary consumer (carnivores/omnivores). Since most mages are generally human, who are the tertiary consumers, and the food consumed are organic in nature (if those huge platters of spaghetti were any indication ...), the precursor of a mage's magical energy invariably comes from the "atmosphere" (sunlight).
(I have no idea about the trophic or ecological efficiency of this energy transfer ...)
Linking them together, you can possibly make mana by converting ambient energy (probably not limited to sunlight, but must inexplicably come from some sort of atmospheric, energy-rich component) into compatible forms (which may partially explain how you get those artificial mana synthesizers for Arc-en-Ciel?), and various organisms/things are able to store this energy somehow (which, again, may explain why strange beasts have some magical energy in them, as shown by A's where Vita/Signum absorbed power from random creatures from other planets for the Book of Darkness). For mages to release this stored energy, they need to eat them and let their body's natural metabolism take care of it.
And yes, I know that's a lot of parentheses in such a short post, and that I'm a strange person trying to reason stuff in a fictitious universe with Earthling science. :P
Kikaifan
2010-05-20, 02:50
You don't store mana in your body, you create it continuously when it's needed. Amy and Chrono were measuring throughput, not reserves, in S1.
It's just that mana linking is somehow connected to normal metabolic processes and thus causes exhaustion/hunger as physical activity would.
You don't store mana in your body, you create it continuously when it's needed. Amy and Chrono were measuring throughput, not reserves, in S1.
That contradicts with A's though, which has the Book of Darkness drain Linker Cores and the effects actually being long-lasting. If the cores don't store mana there wouldn't be a long lasting effect.
That contradicts with A's though, which has the Book of Darkness drain Linker Cores and the effects actually being long-lasting. If the cores don't store mana there wouldn't be a long lasting effect.
Unless it copied/stealed the mana-power-core (We Will Assimilate You) *and* the current mana in the linker-core.
Storing some mana doesn't mean you don't continuously create some too...
/me is reminded of TA/SupCom.
PhoenixFlare
2010-05-20, 05:29
Unless it copied/stealed the mana-power-core (We Will Assimilate You) *and* the current mana in the linker-core.
Storing some mana doesn't mean you don't continuously create some too...
/me is reminded of TA/SupCom.
Uh, not sure I'm reading it right, but isn't that a contradiction?
Uh, not sure I'm reading it right, but isn't that a contradiction?
I mean the linker-core serves to produce mana constantly, and also stores some of it, though the storage capacity is extremely limited.
The YnS could have simply stolen the producting capacity along with the mana, or else just the mana with some part of the peculiarity of that linker core.
After all, the YnS could spend 'pages' to do spell, but it *also* couldn't take twice from the same person.
PhoenixFlare
2010-05-20, 05:52
I mean the linker-core serves to produce mana constantly, and also stores some of it, though the storage capacity is extremely limited.
The YnS could have simply stolen the producting capacity along with the mana, or else just the mana with some part of the peculiarity of that linker core.
After all, the YnS could spend 'pages' to do spell, but it *also* couldn't take twice from the same person.
Which seems to be quite the opposite. Stealing the production capacity of a mage's Linker Core serves no purpose in that the Book of Darkness itself cannot generate additional mana on its own. If it could, then all those Linker Cores previously stolen/copied would have been sufficient for the Book to fulfill its own requirement.
Also, if storage capacity is really that limited, then one single drain of less than 20 (?) seconds on Nanoha couldn't have filled pages in the Book of Darkness, could it? :P
Which seems to be quite the opposite. Stealing the production capacity of a mage's Linker Core serves no purpose in that the Book of Darkness itself cannot generate additional mana on its own. If it could, then all those Linker Cores previously stolen/copied would have been sufficient for the Book to fulfill its own requirement.
Unless what the book needed was power-cores, and not mana?
After all, there must be a reason they can't take twice a linker-core from the same person.
Also, if storage capacity is really that limited, then one single drain of less than 20 (?) seconds on Nanoha couldn't have filled pages in the Book of Darkness, could it? :P
Ditto. If what the YnS needs is power-core, that could simply be an example of the quality of Nanoah's Linker-core.
Also, when i say *very limited*, i just mean that someone like nanoha could maybeproduce her own store in an hour or so (though i think it would be less), so it's still quite a lot, but it is definitely not something that is infinite.
Der Langrisser
2010-05-20, 07:00
I think all these discussions on elemental affinity and linker core, should belong to the Magic and Technology Thread.
Oh for Pete's sake. Our body stores energy in the form of fats as reserve, but we continuously generate energy as well through our metabolism. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Sometimes the answer is both.
Cheers.
Oh for Pete's sake. Our body stores energy in the form of fats as reserve, but we continuously generate energy as well through our metabolism. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Sometimes the answer is both.
Cheers.
Not to mention the fact that we need oxygen from the air to keep going so our bodies can break down that food.
Speaking of which... is Teana still as ground-bound as ever?
IIRC she said she needed to learn to fly to become an Enforcer [StrikerS manga 5 p7], and that she'd dropped out off both Flight school and Officer training by the age of 13.
Blank-Mage
2010-05-20, 15:31
IIRC she said she needed to learn to fly to become an Enforcer [StrikerS manga 5 p7], and that she'd dropped out off both Flight school and Officer training by the age of 13.
Yeah, really must suck when Nanoha aced flying with no training whatsoever the day after learning magic existed.
00-Raiser
2010-05-20, 18:01
Yeah, really must suck when Nanoha aced flying with no training whatsoever the day after learning magic existed.
Teana just needed an awesome teacher like Yuuno :D
Teana just needed an awesome teacher like Yuuno :D
To be fair, Teana had self-esteem issues. She was like, "I'm such a loser, I suck, I always fail, etc..." Whereas Nanoha was like, "I can do Magic? COOL! Let's do it!"
Teana was weighted down by her burdens, while Nanoha slammed the pedal down the moment she got a license to cast.
Cheers.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-20, 21:38
Teana just needed an awesome teacher like Yuuno :D
Considering the massive self-esteem issues Teana had and couldn't resolve until Nanoha blasted her, I doubt Yuuno could have worked any miracles. :heh:
arkhangelsk
2010-05-20, 21:44
To be fair, Nanoha had the massive advantage of actually being near the very pinnacle of power and talent. Nanoha didn't have that much self-esteem (see Ep1) until she discovered magic and the whole world begins telling her how close to the pinnacle she was...
Teana is ... average.
I wouldn't say 'average', not with her holding illusion magic in her deck. Illusion magic is noted to be a very rare form of magic (and indeed, so far we have seen no character except Teana use it) so that's at least one thing she holds over Nanoha which Nanoha can never hope to match.
Teana's definitely not a prodigy like Nanoha, but she's definitely above average. Where Nanoha is the 'prodigy from birth' type, Teana is the 'hard work' type.
Average would be C or B rank with no special skills to stand out.
Heh, even that's not quite true.
Teana works mildly hard (not as hard as Naoha or maybe even Fate, but hard enough), but she defiitely is powerful.
In fact, a plot point in StrikerS was the dichotomy between her view of herself and the truth, as she was in a squads of Freaks.
She isn't as Freaky as most in RF6, but she definitely is Elite 'from birth' type.
Really? I always viewed that plot as Teana being the normal one in a squad of elites, but not a plot that Teana's view on that was wrong. Her actions were wrong, but I don't recall her view being wrong.
Really? I always viewed that plot as Teana being the normal one in a squad of elites, but not a plot that Teana's view on that was wrong. Her actions were wrong, but I don't recall her view being wrong.
It was highlighted by Vice and his reaction to Teana.
Vice himself is an Elite who casually remarks that Teana is more than twice as powerful as him without counting her Illusions, and that while she is in a group where *everyone are freaks*, she would be counted as lucky by most elites in the natural talent department.
Edit: Also, remember that Teana was very well commented upon by the academy once she learned to work with others.
Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about Vice.
Vice: Yea, sure. Forget anything that has a phallus. I'VE GROWN USE TO IT orz
but she's definitely above average. Where Nanoha is the 'prodigy from birth' type, Teana is the 'hard work' type.
In other words, Nanoha is Reimu and Teana is Marisa.
Vice: Yea, sure. Forget anything that has a phallus. I'VE GROWN USE TO IT orz
Oh don't worry, I don't forget stuff just because it's been said by a guy. Just you.
In other words, Nanoha is Reimu and Teana is Marisa.
... I know it makes sense in that context, but my brain refuses to compare Marisa 'Masta Spark' Kirisame to anyone but Nanoha 'Starlight Breaka' Takamachi.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-21, 09:24
Vice: Yea, sure. Forget anything that has a phallus. I'VE GROWN USE TO IT orz
Sorry, Vice. Men just don't seem to be very easy to remember in the MGLN universe. A lot of them get put on a bus and vanish.
Wondering how long it will take Tohma to be forgotten by whatever comes after Force...
EDIT: Pageclaim for forgetting male characters!
It was highlighted by Vice and his reaction to Teana.
Vice himself is an Elite who casually remarks that Teana is more than twice as powerful as him without counting her Illusions, and that while she is in a group where *everyone are freaks*, she would be counted as lucky by most elites in the natural talent department.
Edit: Also, remember that Teana was very well commented upon by the academy once she learned to work with others.
She and Subaru graduated top of their class. Teana also got a personal recommendation from the Academy Commander.
386'th Battalion Disaster Relief said much the same. That Tiana had excellent shooting skills, a quick learner and good under pressure. They gave the impression they were surprised she'd ended up with them rather than being directly punted towards Enforcer or the like. They were both going to be recommended to choose their next postings before Nanoha and Vita turned up to headhunt them [The Personnel Officer gave the impression he was surprised N+V had heard of his unit but not that they wanted S+T].
To anyone who isn't Teana, she's basically Chrono without the family connections. He was an Enforcer at nine because he had high pressure training and fast tracking from family contacts from the age of five.
Which sound stage did that come out of? I've been meaning to go through them, and that sounds like as good a place as any to start.
Anyway, the theory makes sense. Teana's always had a glaring inferiority complex, especially in relation to her brother. The fact that by now she's probably every bit as good as, if not better, than he as a mage just seems to have escaped her notice. :)
Which sound stage did that come out of? I've been meaning to go through them, and that sounds like as good a place as any to start.
Anyway, the theory makes sense. Teana's always had a glaring inferiority complex, especially in relation to her brother. The fact that by now she's probably every bit as good as, if not better, than he as a mage just seems to have escaped her notice. :)
StrikerS manga.
do read the AS one first though :p
RadiantBeam
2010-05-22, 14:02
StrikerS manga.
do read the AS one first though :p
I really should probably pick that up and read it one day. :heh: Maybe when I don't have so much to do...
Ok, finally read the comic chapter 8.
Apparently the one translating here had it different from ZSS', as they *were* worried about Nanoha (and were talking about stopping the test).
Also, Nanoha apparently exerted a lot of power restoring her BJ/Staff.
Though she is too H4XX ;-)
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/th_pre_vivid_ch13_02.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/pre_vivid_ch13_02.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/th_pre_vivid_ch13_01.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/pre_vivid_ch13_01.jpg)The right pic is the last page of ch13
Einhart against the White Devil? someone's gonna get pwned. unless Ein has a hidden Hegemon mode -Klaus Ingvalt FULL UNLOCK ver.-
Einhart vs Nanoha would mean Vivio got defeated already. Or she managed to tie down Einhart until Nanoha defeated Teana.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-24, 08:55
Man, if Einhart beats Vivio a second time, I'll start questioning her status as the hero of the story. :heh: Kind of surprised Ein is so willing to take Nanoha on, but considering how in awe she was of her and Fate's power when she saw them, it makes sense that she'd want to fight one of them if she's interested in leveling up herself.
You haven't been keeping track, this would be the third time Einhart kicked Vivio's ass if that is indeed what happened.
It's not that bad, Nanoha lost to Fate 3 times before racking up victories.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-24, 09:07
Sheesh, they're really copying and pasting the Nanoha/Fate dynamics for these two if Vivio gets defeated a third time, aren't they? :heh:
00-Raiser
2010-05-24, 09:12
The thing is there's no reason Vivio would beat Einhart at this point. Einhart's always been better, and Vivio hasn't done anything notable training wise to be able to surpass her. Plus, there's no real urgency. There's no dire reason that Vivio must defeat Einhart, unlike Nanoha, who had to beat Fate in order to save her.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-24, 09:18
I'm not denying that logically it makes sense, I know it does. Vivio isn't as experienced or as well trained as Einhart is, and she doesn't need to beat her like Nanoha did for Fate. That doesn't stop me from drawing the comparisons between the two, since the whole Einhart/Vivio friendship angle is more or less a rehash of season one's NanoFate friendship angle anyway.
NorthernFallout
2010-05-24, 09:22
Let's repeat.
ViviD is S1 with slight mods and non-existent creativity.
That is all.
Nightengale
2010-05-24, 09:29
Actually, the whole 'new socially awkward girl suddenly making new friends in a new environment and starts to open up' thing is from A's, not so much S1. It's the 'let's beat each other up in the name of friendship and my motherrrrrrrr and my ancestorrrrrrr training' part that's closer to S1.
But I jest.
Personally, I'm not negative towards the overall direction that ViviD has gone with so far, but it's definitely slow in a less appealing manner, considering even more that it's supposed to have some story. Even sports drama that consist nothing more of relationship drama, training and tournaments are paced better. Most of them.
I'm not denying that logically it makes sense, I know it does. Vivio isn't as experienced or as well trained as Einhart is, and she doesn't need to beat her like Nanoha did for Fate. That doesn't stop me from drawing the comparisons between the two, since the whole Einhart/Vivio friendship angle is more or less a rehash of season one's NanoFate friendship angle anyway.
Well, depending on how Ein vs. Nanoha goes, we could have that dynamic thrown off. I mean, Nanoha is already a huge chick magnet, and 'befriending' Einhart will only make it worse, right? Especially since we already know the kid is utterly awed by powerful people.
Hey, weirder things have happened.
Vivio's mom, has got it goin' on, she's all I want, and I've waited for so long...
Yeah, the pacing is the problem in Vivid.
It does take back to the 'magical' roots of Nanoha, but it also has way too much useless stuff.
Though i quite disagree about it being a rehash of S1, as S1 was Nanoha and Fate befriending each other and Nanoha 'freeing' fate, while this has the befriending and freeing aspects, the importance is put more on 'Freeing' Einhart and vivio from their ancestors' destinies, with a large amounts of secondary characters.
Basically, some of the concept and executions are alike, but i (hope) the point of it is different.
00-Raiser
2010-05-24, 09:36
Eh, comparing it to season 1 falls flat after Nove befriends Einhart (or rather the opposite). Nanoha had to work a lot more to befriend Fate, who was stubbornly following her mother's orders. If Einhart had kept up her street fighting ways and Vivio had to stop her, then it would be a season 1 rehash. Instead it's get subverted with Einhart opening up rather easily and becoming friends the 'normal' way (ie, spending time and getting to know others).
So yeah, it's different enough from season 1 where comparing the two is just grasping at straws =/
RadiantBeam
2010-05-24, 09:42
Well, depending on how Ein vs. Nanoha goes, we could have that dynamic thrown off. I mean, Nanoha is already a huge chick magnet, and 'befriending' Einhart will only make it worse, right? Especially since we already know the kid is utterly awed by powerful people.
Hey, weirder things have happened.
Vivio's mom, has got it goin' on, she's all I want, and I've waited for so long...
...
Oh, dammit, this makes so much sense that now if it doesn't happen, I'll be disappointed. :heh: Thanks a lot, Moczo.
NorthernFallout
2010-05-24, 09:48
But I like straws... Ah well. I'll spare the bashing and keep it to myself.
Need Force naow.
LoweGear
2010-05-24, 09:49
Vivio's mom, has got it goin' on, she's all I want, and I've waited for so long...
... Vivio can't you see, you're just not it for me,
I know it might be wrong but I'm in love with Vivio's mom~
:eyespin::eyespin::eyespin::eyespin:
Actually, when you consider it, it's not really that far-fetched. Vivio and Nanoha are 14-years apart? And Einhart is 5 years? older than Vivio so that would make her and Nanoha 9-years apart. Not that far-fetched at all.
Now I want to see some Einoha fics damn. Or would it be Nanohart?
If Nanoha is confronting Einhart, I wonder if she already took Fate out?
00-Raiser
2010-05-24, 10:23
Actually, when you consider it, it's not really that far-fetched. Vivio and Nanoha are 14-years apart? And Einhart is 5 years? older than Vivio so that would make her and Nanoha 9-years apart. Not that far-fetched at all.
Huh? Where did you get 5 years from? There's no way Einhart is 15. I thought she was only a year or two older than Vivio.
If Nanoha is confronting Einhart, I wonder if she already took Fate out?
fate's busy with erio. that fight i want to see. personally, i'm rooting for erio to win. guy needs a moment of awesome, and beating fate is one.
I'm not really familiar with Japanese schooling system. Vivio is in primary school. Einhart is in middle school which I assume would be secondary/lower secondary? That's at least 2/3 years right there.
I think Erio would somehow beat or keep Fate busy. She's just too kind and does not have the 'hardness' to beat her opponent unless it's a serious stuff.
00-Raiser
2010-05-24, 10:35
I'm not really familiar with Japanese schooling system. Vivio is in primary school. Einhart is in middle school which I assume would be secondary/lower secondary? That's at least 2/3 years right there.
Mid has it's own school system, which I'm too lazy to look up the specifics. Einhart is only one level above Vivio.
Two levels. It's laid out in SS4. St. Hilde has 5 elementary grades before the intermediate grades. Vivio is presently in the fourth.
00-Raiser
2010-05-24, 11:47
So Einhart is 12-ish then. Sounds about right to me.
RadiantBeam
2010-05-24, 13:15
Huh, so she's two years older than Vivio, give or take some calculations. Interesting.
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