Nanoha Manga Discussion

[itanshi1]

well yeah without an interruption, cypha still needs to get her sword back

[RadiantBeam]

Out of all the Wolkenritters, Shamal's probably the only one who wouldn't, or couldn't, die in the blaze of glory. Vita almost did back at StrikerS...

That reminds me, didn't Vita also suffer a similarly lethal wound back then? Then I think it's pretty safe to assume that fellow Wokenritter Signum would survive too :p. Besides, it's not like they make sure she's dead (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MakeSureHesDead).

Well, there's also to consider the fact that really, the only thing that probably saved Vita from dying at the end of StrikerS after having it foreshadowed time and time again was that the writers chickened out on actually killing her; even so, she did prove that the Wolkies can take a massive amount of damage before they even collapse.

[prescience]

even so, she did prove that the Wolkies can take a massive amount of damage before they even collapse.
As wel as setting a precedent for the writers to chicken out again :p

[Moczo]

As wel as setting a precedent for the writers to chicken out again :p

And this time, I'm right there chickening out with them... if Signum's going to die, I'd prefer it be a little more awesome than just showing off the new girl's shiny Gunblade.


Yeah which is why when you see an opening you take it which is the entire point of this.

Again who exactly is going to attack her? You're all pulling this crap out "oh someone will bushwahck here!!!" WHO will do this exactly? Give me a plausible scenario where someone can suddenly break away from combat with an equal foe (without getting shot to bits), cover large amounts of ground unhindered, and attack her from her firing position too the rear. All without her having any time to react to the change.

I seriously doubt any of you actually can. If you're going to purpose there is some risk specify what the risk is, some vague "well something bad could happen!" is not going to cut it. It's combat yeah something bad COULD happen, but combat is about probabilities not certainties. The probability of something horrendously bad happening are extremely small, while the probability of helping your team win are much higher.

Seriously though who exactly is going to just appear out of no where and blind side her when everyone is fully engaged, easily visible, and the only person that can cloak or cast illusions is on your side.

The postion in general are another stupid thing combat is not a football game. Formations are useful only in so far as they serve to support your plan and goal, and the plan isn't built around the formations, it's the other way around. Roles and position are generalizations subject to change based on conditions and needs.

If you lock yourself rigidly into a set formation you've made yourself pathetically predictable and easy meat for an opponent willing to be flexible and adaptable. Overspecialization breeds weakness.

Edit: God damn I got dragged in again! I just can't fucking help myself! Alright that's it I'm stopping right now! You hear me brain we're done with this, DONE I SAY!


Okay, hypothetical scenario: Caro moves up to help, let's say, Fate fight Erio. She gets in a few good shots, his hitpoints are dropping, the two of them have him at a clear disadvantage and he's got maybe a minute or two before he goes down.

Then, one of the other duels goes unexpectedly south. Maybe Subaru slips a lucky shot past Nove's guard, or Nanoha pulls off an even more one-sided Einhart-stomping than we're all predicting, or Vivio returns to the battle earlier than expected and double-teams someone herself; this many people fighting at once, it's such a chaotic mess that anything could happen. Now Caro is needed in a support role, only she's right in the thick of things instead of in the back with her whole team between her and the enemy. And to make matters worse, now Erio can focus his attacks on her, because Fate would need to drop her offensive to defend Caro at all costs or risk losing her team's only healer and putting them at a long-term disadvantage; Lulu keeps right on healing the other team while her own teammates slowly get worn down.

Basically, it isn't that moving Caro up to aid in direct combat isn't a viable strategy, it's just a big, big gamble. It all depends on that first perfect moment and the assumption that she can successfully surprise and defeat her chosen target quickly enough for nothing else to go wrong. If she can, she's scored an early lead; if she can't, she's potentially just handed a major advantage to the other side. Some commanders will take that risk, some won't (and for all we know, Teana will order her to do just that, so we'll just have to wait and see).

And on a lighter note, I'm chuckling at that football analogy, because in this case it is surprisingly accurate. Aren't they on vacation, after all? Not only isn't this a real battle, it isn't even an official Bureau training session: we are looking at the Nanoha equivalent of a friendly game of touch football out on the lawn.

Just another reminder that everything these people do is mind-bogglingly awesome.


P.S.: Er... sorry about prolonging the debate further. If it's any consolation, now you can say, totally truthfully, "Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in."

Or you could just ignore me and go get a refreshing beverage.

Or both, because that quote probably wouldn't take long to say and after you said it you might want a beverage.

[RadiantBeam]

And this time, I'm right there chickening out with them... if Signum's going to die, I'd prefer it be a little more awesome than just showing off the new girl's shiny Keyblade.

Fixed it for you.

If anything, I'd say Signum is only being used to show how powerful Thoma could be if he ever managed to get himself under control so he wasn't being slowly eaten alive by the Eclipse. After all, the whole family seems to have much better control over it than he does, though one wonders how many years it took for them to get there.

[Koveras Alvane]

Well, as much as I like to see other persons suffer I'll make and exception here...she's a cool character, she deserves a better dead. Like...giving her skull to the skull throne but that won't happen any time soon.

I say, nothing short of taking an entire baddie homeworld down with her is awesome enough to be Signum's death scene. That, or quietly disappearing into the light after Hayate's peaceful death of old age, knowing that she has fulfilled her knight duty to (best possible) end. But that's just me...

Signum wasn't even at full power when she got taken down too, as she de-unisoned with Agito and Laevantine broke. She's the kind of character where the fight she dies in she goes all out at full power and takes down her foe with her.

What reassures me the most right now is the hint that Signum had AEC equipment designed for her, too. According to the Chekhov's gun principle, it will pop up later and good writing demands for it to be used in combat. So it's either gonna be Signum herself, or someone else. But I seriously don't know anyone who fits her profile. Plus, using a weapon made for a dead warrior... too grimdark, even for Force.

Or preferably we could just have none of them die because I happen to like all of them and that group is easily my favorite part of the series, and as a fan I have the god given right to yell at the writers and demand they pander to my whims. :p

Couldn't agree more. They should kill off Thoma, if they have to, he is male, anyway. :rolleyes: And that would tick off Subaru to no end. Actually, now that I think about, this would be ingenious (IMO, at least): lead the raging fans to believe you are stepping away from the Magical Girl genre, then kill off the male decoy protagonist, and instead let Isis take the lead. This way, you get your personal motivations for fighting all set up, redeem Thoma (poor guy, lost his family, then got killed by the same people), and pacify the old fanbase. Plus, you don't often see decoy protagonists (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DecoyProtagonist) in anime and manga, and originality is always good...

As wel as setting a precedent for the writers to chicken out again :p

Or Tsuzuki has entered the Troll-A-Fan stage, which all writers with a fandom enter at some point. Writers in this stage love trolling the fanbase by setting up the plots to go in the direction that the majority of them do not want, then twisting the whole thing back onto the familiar tracks and leaving the fans with mixed feelings of rage and relief...

[RadiantBeam]

ICouldn't agree more. They should kill off Thoma, if they have to, he is male, anyway. :rolleyes: And that would tick off Subaru to no end. Actually, now that I think about, this would be ingenious (IMO, at least): lead the raging fans to believe you are stepping away from the Magical Girl genre, then kill off the male decoy protagonist, and make Isis the lead instead. This way, you get your personal motivations for fighting all set up, redeem Thoma (poor guy, lost his family, then got killed by the same people), and pacify the old fanbase. Plus, you don't often see decoy protagonists (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DecoyProtagonist) in anime and manga, and originality is always good...

Oh, come on, don't kill Thoma. I like Thoma. :heh: He's new and refreshing and he actually has some personality.

Though really, if he's going to die, I don't see it happening so soon in the story with all the hints they've dropped and the way they've developed his character and his bonds with Subaru and Lily. There's no need to kill him just to pacify an old fanbase or give the story its drive and focus; the story of Force is already leaps and bounds ahead of the story for Vivid.

[itanshi1]

yeah vivid would be excellent as an OVA or something (the pacing and action is not conveyed well with is release schedule imho), force could be either

although that amount of blood and nudity also speaks towards OVA, one can hope :/

[Koveras Alvane]

Oh, come on, don't kill Thoma. I like Thoma. :heh: He's new and refreshing and he actually has some personality.

Well, I agree that he has personality and personally, I have nothing against him, but until now he has been rather useless IMO, and I am biased against useless male leads. This whole Eclipse Driver transformation thing is taking too long IMO: if he is destined to kick some ass, let him kick ass sooner. And make sure his badassitude doesn't stem exclusively from his fancy Device (I really hope that his mad fighting skills against Veyron were a result of Subaru's training, not just something magically acquired with Eclipse).

or give the story its drive and focus; the story of Force is already leaps and bounds ahead of the story for Vivid.

I like that logic, because it means they don't have to kill the Wolkenritter, either. ^^ And as for ViVid, it has no real plot. It's more of a character-based situation comedy with call backs and a streak of setting exposition (all those Belkan flashbacks).

[Moczo]

And this time, I'm right there chickening out with them... if Signum's going to die, I'd prefer it be a little more awesome than just showing off the new girl's shiny Keyblade.


Fixed it for you.

My thanks. I'd be lost without you.

Or at least make improper Square/Enix references.

[RadiantBeam]

Well, I agree that he has personality and personally, I have nothing against him, but until now he has been rather useless IMO, and I am biased against useless male leads. This whole Eclipse Driver transformation thing is taking too long IMO: if he is destined to kick some ass, let him kick ass sooner. And make sure his badassitude doesn't stem exclusively from his fancy Device (I really hope that his mad fighting skills against Veyron were a result of Subaru's training, not just something magically acquired with Eclipse).

Well, the problem with his becoming useless is that his body was weakened by the Eclipse and the way it took over him while he was fighting Veyron when they first met up; it's not his fault he's been crippled as a lead, it's the fault of the writers for using the Eclipse as an excuse to make him weak and to show the effects he suffers from it because he can't control it, and it's breaking his body apart. IMO that doesn't make him useless, it means that with the whole situation he's completely in over his head and pretty much drowning in the water at this point. Hence, the introduction of both the family and the TSAB at this point in the story.

And as for ViVid, it has no real plot. It's more of a character-based situation comedy with call backs and a streak of setting exposition (all those Belkan flashbacks).

One could argue that at least in the beginning Vivid had some hints of a plot, what with the mystery of what happened to Olivie and why Ingvalt was so determined to protect her and so broken by her death. The problem is that these threads of plot haven't been mentioned much since then, giving way only for character fights and comedy. Which in and of itself isn't bad, but I'd like some meat in my hamburger meal when I eat it.

[itanshi1]

Meh when I think keyblade, i think love injection, this is not quite how battling females show their affection <.<; or maybe it is

[Arkeus]

Honestly, am i the only one who loves useless death? When a main character dies without a big moment of awesome, or even better, after being ridiculed ad all his efforts subverted?

I know it probably won't happen in MGLN, but still.. Signum dying, especially if she had a weapon she could have used but didn't because of pride, could be great.

[Nanya01]

Honestly, am i the only one who loves useless death?

Yes... Yes you are.

[itanshi1]

Hehe, I'm more of a fan of deaths like that in fan fiction, but only if they are rare. rarity helps its effect ^^

[Moczo]

Meh when I think keyblade, i think love injection, this is not quite how battling females show their affection <.<; or maybe it is

Well, Cypha has now canonically penetrated Signum with that long, hard thing of hers. Double entendres are like love.

[Tiresias]

One could argue that at least in the beginning Vivid had some hints of a plot, what with the mystery of what happened to Olivie and why Ingvalt was so determined to protect her and so broken by her death. The problem is that these threads of plot haven't been mentioned much since then, giving way only for character fights and comedy. Which in and of itself isn't bad, but I'd like some meat in my hamburger meal when I eat it.

Aye, at the beginning it looks like the story it has potential, but it turns into loli fodder without even a speck of objective. It's like a slice-of-life series in a magical world. What happened to Ix? :upset:

Honestly, am i the only one who loves useless death? When a main character dies without a big moment of awesome, or even better, after being ridiculed ad all his efforts subverted?

You're looking at the wrong series :p. Nanoha has some Gundam influence, true, but in design, not story. If it were, Nanoha and Fate would've probably killed each other back at season one :eyebrow:. And personally, that gimmick only tug a heart string in a story about pointless wars in a grey vs grey morality; Nanoha is more white vs grey or white vs black...

[hinakatbklyn]

Well, the problem with his becoming useless is that his body was weakened by the Eclipse and the way it took over him while he was fighting Veyron when they first met up; it's not his fault he's been crippled as a lead, it's the fault of the writers for using the Eclipse as an excuse to make him weak and to show the effects he suffers from it because he can't control it, and it's breaking his body apart. IMO that doesn't make him useless, it means that with the whole situation he's completely in over his head and pretty much drowning in the water at this point. Hence, the introduction of both the family and the TSAB at this point in the story.



It didn't help that Thoma has not gotten over the mine incident from years ago when he met Veyron. I believe the eclipse used his anger to take control and make him temporarily stronger. But it looks like each time he uses the eclipse (or the eclipse uses him) he gets weaker. (or worse his lifespan decreases at an accelerated pace). It shows with Thoma's scar (or tattoo) from the eclipse changing after the battle. The useless factor is that he hasn't completely controled the eclipse yet. If he can figure out a way to control himself or control the eclipse he is infected with, he can become that much stronger.

[Koveras Alvane]

Well, the problem with his becoming useless is that his body was weakened by the Eclipse and the way it took over him while he was fighting Veyron when they first met up; it's not his fault he's been crippled as a lead, it's the fault of the writers for using the Eclipse as an excuse to make him weak and to show the effects he suffers from it because he can't control it, and it's breaking his body apart. IMO that doesn't make him useless, it means that with the whole situation he's completely in over his head and pretty much drowning in the water at this point. Hence, the introduction of both the family and the TSAB at this point in the story.

Yes, I realize that it's the writers fault for writing Thoma that way. But it doesn't negate the fact that Thoma IS that way right now. ^^; As I said, I find his transformation too overdrawn. Plus, I am really not happy about the slow pace, at which they reveal stuff about the Eclipse. I wouldn't mind if the Hayate's gang didn't know anything about it and was piecing it all together as they go, but they obviously know much, and instead of giving proper exposition, I get treated to flashbacks about the main character, who has yet to make himself interesting in my eyes. At some point, it stops being intriguing and becomes frustrating... but that maybe just me.

Which in and of itself isn't bad, but I'd like some meat in my hamburger meal when I eat it.

My theory is that the whole point of ViVid is to be a counterweight to Force's grimdark tendencies.

Honestly, am i the only one who loves useless death? When a main character dies without a big moment of awesome, or even better, after being ridiculed ad all his efforts subverted?

........ (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VisibleSilence)

...what Nanya01 said. :eyebrow:

Well, Cypha has now canonically penetrated Signum with that long, hard thing of hers. Double entendres are like love.

Don't make me ship Signum/Cypha. Seriously. Agito and Shamal won't approve.

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention in my previous post: I sincerely hope that Signum's new AEC weapon is another sword. Imagine the awesomeness of their rematch: two Amazon warriors fighting to the death with blazing dual swords... *brain asplode* :eyespin:

[itanshi1]

nah signum's next 'weapon' is a french military beret, she autowins by being smexier

[Koveras Alvane]

nah signum's next 'weapon' is a french military beret, she autowins by being smexier

OMG, I want to see that. :heh:

[prescience]

Do want...

[itanshi1]

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/th_pre_force_ch07_01.png (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/pre_force_ch07_01.png) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/th_pre_force_ch07_02.png (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/pre_force_ch07_02.png) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/th_pre_force_ch07_03.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/pre_force_ch07_03.jpg) http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/th_pre_force_ch07_04.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/pre_force_ch07_04.jpg)And Force NEXT
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/th_force_next_tohma.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/tmp/force_next_tohma.jpg)

I just noticed signum's wounds on her chest swapped between image 1 and 2, nice one artists

[Evil Rick]

I just noticed signum's wounds on her chest swapped between image 1 and 2, nice one artists

Really? The y look at the same place to me. :/

[itanshi1]

Definitely. It is much more centered on the right breast in pic 1 than the left breast and swapped in pic 2. Just imagine where the nipples would go.

[Koveras Alvane]

I wonder if that leaves a scar...

[Lord Pertinax]

I wonder if that leaves a scar...

I like scars.

[Evil Rick]

I wonder if that leaves a scar...

Hey, womans with scars are hot (http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4485/vmmlrivals02final.jpg). :naughty:

[prescience]

Scar across chest + beret = Misato Katsuragi ???

:p

[Nanya01]

Just was thinking of the images of Signum getting beaten up and, well... Got a weird thought.

Signum: Who are you?

Cypha: Me? Just the one who's going to kill you.

*Signum gets sliced up*

Signum: ...Tis just a flesh wound.

Cypha: My bad! *Stabs Signum in the gut.*

Signum: ...I fight... on!

Cypha: ...You're not unisoned anymore and your sword is broke and I stabbed you in the gut, you lose.

Signum: I fight on! *Pulls out Cypha's sword from her belly.*

Cypha: ...Wow, and I thought Veyron was stubborn.

[00-Raiser]

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention in my previous post: I sincerely hope that Signum's new AEC weapon is another sword. Imagine the awesomeness of their rematch: two Amazon warriors fighting to the death with blazing dual swords... *brain asplode* :eyespin:

No, it needs to be a speed booster with a kick ass cape! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqsbkZ_se-M#t=1m56s)

But seriously, I hope it's a ranged weapon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SziDbSthYDA). Bow form doesn't get any love :(

... Um, where's it say she has a new weapon, anyways? :heh:

[Bananoha]

... Um, where's it say she has a new weapon, anyways? :heh:http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8091/force0716.th.jpg (http://img257.imageshack.us/i/force0716.jpg/)

シグナムが
戦ってる！？
Signum is
fighting!?

あいつの武装
まだ出来てねーのに！
Her weapon
isn't even ready!SIGUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.

[RadiantBeam]

Just was thinking of the images of Signum getting beaten up and, well... Got a weird thought.

Signum: Who are you?

Cypha: Me? Just the one who's going to kill you.

*Signum gets sliced up*

Signum: ...Tis just a flesh wound.

Cypha: My bad! *Stabs Signum in the gut.*

Signum: ...I fight... on!

Cypha: ...You're not unisoned anymore and your sword is broke and I stabbed you in the gut, you lose.

Signum: I fight on! *Pulls out Cypha's sword from her belly.*

Cypha: ...Wow, and I thought Veyron was stubborn.

...

This confirms it. I now ship Cypha/Signum.

[prescience]

I thought that ship already sailed last month... :p

Btw, any sign of full raws yet?

[RadiantBeam]

I thought that ship already sailed last month... :p

Btw, any sign of full raws yet?

It did, but I didn't jump on board until just now. :p

As far as I know, not yet. Though if the raws for Vivid are out, then Force can't be very far behind.

[Bananoha]

Btw, any sign of full raws yet?sup Nina, go post Leoheart's raws.

And if someone thinks I'll scanlate with those, you best be joking.Raw for Force 06 is out...as to where to get it, ask on my profile >.>.
Edit : ok, link has been fixed... twice (つд`).Didn't realize where/what Nina's been doing recently, so just look at her visitor messages for a link to the blog.

[Tk3997]

Well, there's also to consider the fact that really, the only thing that probably saved Vita from dying at the end of StrikerS after having it foreshadowed time and time again was that the writers chickened out on actually killing her; even so, she did prove that the Wolkies can take a massive amount of damage before they even collapse.Of course they chickened out because she's awesome, which is also why Signum is perfectly safe.


Couldn't agree more. They should kill off Thoma, if they have to, he is male, anyway. :rolleyes: And that would tick off Subaru to no end. Actually, now that I think about, this would be ingenious (IMO, at least): lead the raging fans to believe you are stepping away from the Magical Girl genre, then kill off the male decoy protagonist, and instead let Isis take the lead. This way, you get your personal motivations for fighting all set up, redeem Thoma (poor guy, lost his family, then got killed by the same people), and pacify the old fanbase. Plus, you don't often see decoy protagonists (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DecoyProtagonist) in anime and manga, and originality is always good...They've put way to much focus on him to be a decoy IMO. The focus has basically been entirely on and revolving around him, that's anything but a decoy protagonist. He also quite clearly seems to be holding this seasons plot coupon so it seems unlikely his importance will diminish.


Or Tsuzuki has entered the Troll-A-Fan stage, which all writers with a fandom enter at some point. Writers in this stage love trolling the fanbase by setting up the plots to go in the direction that the majority of them do not want, then twisting the whole thing back onto the familiar tracks and leaving the fans with mixed feelings of rage and relief...He may well have, but I happen to think that trolling is taking the form of having a Male lead who'll probably end up being the big damn hero of the season. Which for a magic girl series is you must admit a enormous troll, just look at allot of heat the series got initially over it.

Yes, I realize that it's the writers fault for writing Thoma that way. But it doesn't negate the fact that Thoma IS that way right now. ^^; As I said, I find his transformation too overdrawn. Plus, I am really not happy about the slow pace, at which they reveal stuff about the Eclipse. I wouldn't mind if the Hayate's gang didn't know anything about it and was piecing it all together as they go, but they obviously know much, and instead of giving proper exposition, I get treated to flashbacks about the main character, who has yet to make himself interesting in my eyes. At some point, it stops being intriguing and becomes frustrating... but that maybe just me.It hasn't really bothered me as mentioned Thoma is a kid in over his head IMO. To me making him be some uber badass right off the bat would come off as cheesy and illogical, he's trying to cope with forces beyond his experience level and capabilities. I think it's telling his first thought after first being exposed was to try and go contact someone in the TSAB he could trust.

I do agree more on the front of Eclipse itself; the characters clearly know a reasonable amount about this thing which seems to have some history. We're being given only bits and pieces though and it is a tad annoying, but also I must admit a bit intriguing. Having the characters know more then the reader is not automatically a bad thing and so far it's not crossed over into the realm of making the plot incomprehensible so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here.

The pacing I think it's too early to call, but it seems alright too me. I can't recall if we've actually had any clear word on how long the series is going to run. If this really is supposed to be a pseudo-season four it could run for quite a while and we could just be in the initial set up in which case a slow rolling start gaining momentum is fine. If it ends up wasting time at the start and then ends in a rush job (I'm looking at you Strikers) when they suddenly run out of time then we've got a problem. It is personal preference though.


Don't make me ship Signum/Cypha. Seriously. Agito and Shamal won't approve.I don't think Signum would either frankly. :p

...

This confirms it. I now ship Cypha/Signum.I somehow can't see Signum getting lovely dovey with a swarmy mass murdering douchebag. She chopped her fucking arm off without a second thought the moment she admitted to massacring that village recall. Cypha instantly became beyond any redemption never mind shipping when she admitted to that IMO.

She seriously needs to be killed and I very much hope she is butchered ala Due.

[RadiantBeam]

I somehow can't see Signum getting lovely dovey with a swarmy mass murdering douchebag. She chopped her fucking arm off without a second thought the moment she admitted to massacring that village recall. Cypha instantly became beyond any redemption never mind shipping when she admitted to that IMO.

She seriously needs to be killed and I very much hope she is butchered ala Due.

Eh, well, I mean more in a "You are my rival and only I can defeat you" kind of shipping, not anything especially loving at this point in the series. So maybe it's not romantic shipping so much as it is rival shipping? Bah, I don't know. I just know that if Signum survives this and Cypha is still around, I'm going to very much enjoy the interaction they'll have with each other.

[00-Raiser]

Eh, well, I mean more in a "You are my rival and only I can defeat you" kind of shipping, not anything especially loving at this point in the series. So maybe it's not romantic shipping so much as it is rival shipping? Bah, I don't know. I just know that if Signum survives this and Cypha is still around, I'm going to very much enjoy the interaction they'll have with each other.

It's called Foe Yay (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FoeYay). Thoma and Veyron have that too, especially in Thoma's dream sequence this chapter...

http://i48.tinypic.com/2uzb4i8.jpg

Page claim for Veyma!

[MeisterBabylon]

Enough with the befriending. We have enough characters to keep a tribe of cannibals fed for a year! :eyespin:

I say we purge the infected! IN THE NAME OF THE SAINT KING!! :frustrated:

[RadiantBeam]

Enough with the befriending. We have enough characters to keep a tribe of cannibals fed for a year! :eyespin:

I say we purge the infected! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!! :frustrated:

Actually, we haven't had a character who has had a good old-fashioned befriending and really earned it. I don't really count Vivio because by that point she wanted to be saved by Nanoha, so the befriending was really mutual on both sides. It only counts as befriending if one side doesn't want it! :p

[Nanya01]

Enough with the befriending. We have enough characters to keep a tribe of cannibals fed for a year! :eyespin:

I say we purge the infected! BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!! :frustrated:

:eyebrow:

I'm beginning to think that if you were selected to be part of an alien game to see who can survive the longest, you'd sacrifice all your teammates just because you could.

[MeisterBabylon]

If that's the aim of the game why not? :uhoh:

But of course I'm only this callous because its virtual reality, or not our reality. I'm not like this in the hospital.

...Okay, I might be a little cruel, but it's for your own good. :uhoh:

[RadiantBeam]

http://i48.tinypic.com/2uzb4i8.jpg

~Sing with me now
Sha-la-la-la-la-la
My, oh, my
Look at the boy too shy
He ain't gonna kiss the girl
Sha-la-la-la-la-la
Ain't that sad
Ain't it a shame, too bad
You gonna miss the girl~

*shot repeatedly until dead*

[Lord Pertinax]

Enough with the befriending. We have enough characters to keep a tribe of cannibals fed for a year! :eyespin:

I say we purge the infected! ¡BLOOD FOR THE BLOODGOD! :frustrated:

¡A SKULL FOR THE SKULL THRONE! Kill...maim...burn...kill...maim...burn...¡ALL PRAISES!

After the sociopathic attack, I think a few bad guys dying will not hurt anybody.

[Lord Pertinax]

If that's the aim of the game why not? :uhoh:

But of course I'm only this callous because its virtual reality, or not our reality. I'm not like this in the hospital.

...Okay, I might be a little cruel, but it's for your own good. :uhoh:

Cruelty is something to be praised, you don't need to apology.

PD: Sorry for the double post.

[Tk3997]

Eh, well, I mean more in a "You are my rival and only I can defeat you" kind of shipping, not anything especially loving at this point in the series. So maybe it's not romantic shipping so much as it is rival shipping? Bah, I don't know. I just know that if Signum survives this and Cypha is still around, I'm going to very much enjoy the interaction they'll have with each other."You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." :p

[prescience]

Well, there is the possibility (suggested by Force NEXT design 03) that Eclipse users aren't exactly operating under their own free will. Maybe Cypha originally wasn't a sociapathic mass-murderer, and if she's cured she'll return to her original personality? Doesn't seem very likely, though. In the meanwhile, I'm just looking forward to seeing how (if) the befriending happens...

About Signum's supposed new weapon, I hope we see it in next month's Force NEXT. Sturm Falke needs more love, but a second sword wouldn't be bad either. Of course, Signum already uses Laevatein's sheath in her off-hand for defense, so I'm not sure how that would fit in.

[Kikaifan]

Retiring Laevatein would make me cry.

Still, it seems like the opposite of the StrikerS situation where the knights were pretty much just 'lol what AMF?' from the get-go. Having an opponent whose body messes up devices on contact is going to require them to get real smart or tech up or something if they want to be of any use, but the conventional mages I would imagine won't have nearly so much trouble.

[Keroko]

Well, there is the possibility (suggested by Force NEXT design 03) that Eclipse users aren't exactly operating under their own free will. Maybe Cypha originally wasn't a sociapathic mass-murderer, and if she's cured she'll return to her original personality? Doesn't seem very likely, though. In the meanwhile, I'm just looking forward to seeing how (if) the befriending happens...

Egh, though I hope that won't happen (I want some real villains dammit) with the series track record that is a lot more more likely than it seems.

[Tiresias]

But seriously, I hope it's a ranged weapon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SziDbSthYDA). Bow form doesn't get any love :(


I know :(. Sturm Falke has only been used twice in the series despite being apparently one of the more powerful form (she only ever used it on seriously hard opponents).

Alternatively, it could be one of these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol_sword). Or, since Cypha's attacks is shown to be able to wreck even Levantine, it Could be a buckler shield or maybe even an armor. Ultimate Tank Signum, anyone?

[prescience]

Retiring Laevatein would make me cry.
Me too. I wouldn't worry about that, though. Both Nanoha's and Subaru's designs have been improvements on their existing devices plus additional stuff (Raising Heart' S.A.C. mode + the Strike Cannon; Mach Caliber EX + the Swordbreaker). So maybe an enhanced something-or-other for Laevatein as well as something new?

Egh, though I hope that won't happen (I want some real villains dammit) with the series track record that is a lot more more likely than it seems.
Yeah, I wouldn't really want that setup either; it would undercut the whole grimdark thing they've been doing here rather badly.

Alternatively, it could be one of these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol_sword). Or, since Cypha's attacks is shown to be able to wreck even Levantine, it Could be a buckler shield or maybe even an armor. Ultimate Tank Signum, anyone?
Mobile armor? O_0

I miss Panzergeist. The name was awesome, even if the spell itself wasn't all that hot once Bardiche got its cartridge upgrade...

[Blank-Mage]

It's kinda hard to imagine Lav.. (dammit) Laevatein (copy paste win!) getting an upgrade after so long. Signum never changes, so it's odd if her sword does. Sure, that sounds weird, but I can't imagine Signum learning a new trick. Now, a powerup for Agito would surprise me in a good way.

As for Panzergeist, yeah, she only used it once. Ever. Although I'm not sure how effective it would have been against a melee attack anyway. Particularly against a katana that seems to have (as always) the ability to cut through anything.

[FRS]

As a mostly melee fighter if Signum is to have upgrades they should help her in melee:

- a heavier barrier jacket ?
- a zweihander form for Laeventein ?
- a shield ? (but Thoma already got one and that would stop people drawing/animating Signum using iaijutsu :heh:)

[prescience]

Particularly against a katana that seems to have (as always) the ability to cut through anything.
Sanger Zonvolt (sp?) again? :heh:

As a mostly melee fighter if Signum is to have upgrades they should help her in melee:

- a heavier barrier jacket ?
- a zweihander form for Laeventein ?
- a shield ? (but Thoma already got one and that would stop people drawing/animating Signum using iaijutsu :heh:)
Zweihander? No idea about how effective it would be in combat, but it sure as hell would look awesome. I somehow don't see heavier body armor helping against something as haxx as a Divider (though more metal bits would also look pretty sweet). Anyway, Vita specifically mentioned a weapon (according to the translation LVD gave, at least), so armor or a shield seem unlikely. Whatever it is, I can't wait to see it...

[Tk3997]

Egh, though I hope that won't happen (I want some real villains dammit) with the series track record that is a lot more more likely than it seems.Whether that would actually absolve her even if it was true is actually an interesting philosophical question whose answer really depends on what school you belong too.

Of course the philosophical answer is secondary to the legal answer...

Most criminal justice professionals would be rather loath to just let a mass murder walk because they "weren't in their right mind". After all this would basically amount to an insanity or diminished capacity/intoxication defense. A key point might be if she was originally infected by choice or it was forced on her, but if it's the former the defense is very weak. Just like you can't get high on PCP, go mental and tear someones throat out and then expect to walk. If you knowing chose to ingest or be exposed to something that effects you're mental state and then later commit some heinous act you bear some responsibility via the act that caused the mental change to start with.

Thus it merely mitigates the crime usually if it's accepted it's considered to remove the specific intent, which thus would say result in a charge of manslaughter instead of murder. Dozens and dozens of counts of manslaughter (and this is before we factor in malicious destruction of property, arson, and probable violations of various magic use statues among others that could also be charged) would still equal life imprisonment more then likely.

If it was forced on her and thus she had no choice then a full insanity/involuntary intoxication defense might be possible. It's likely the TSAB allows such a defense, or even a specific "magical compulsion" defense to cover instances were someone is driven to an illegal act by magical control or coercion. The defense would probably hinge on the level of freewill and ability to comprehend the illegality of her actions she maintained, but if the effect was merely to reduce inhibitions or increase aggression it would be unlikely to work. "I was really pissed!" is after all not normally a valid defense for murder. It would have to rise to the level of an irresistible compulsion or total inability to know the act was wrong to be effective.

Her behavior even thus far makes that rather questionable she talked about "wanting to avoid needless killing" or some such which speaks to being able to chose not too, and knowing that the act could have consequences, but then going through with the act anyway for whatever reason. She also appears quite aware that what she's done is illegal and wrong, but just doesn't seem to care. Eclipse might increase aggression or instill a sort of severe sociopathy were the person simply has no empathy and doesn't care, but neither of these are seen as valid defenses (most serial killers have one or even both of those problems and are often mentally ill, but this hardly saves them often being executed or at least imprisoned for life.)

So legally speaking it seems questionable if she'd have a leg to stand on really. Mass killing is one of those things that's not easily forgiven and that the system tends to go out of it's way to punish as severely as possible while being very dismissive of possible mitigating factors. Which could work if you wanted to be really grimdark, she was compelled to some extent, but the system doesn't care and locks her up for the rest of her life anyway.

[Keroko]

Whether that would actually absolve her even if it was true is actually an interesting philosophical question whose answer really depends on what school you belong too.

Fate, Wolkenritter, numbers, Agito, Einhart... yeah I'd say they've got a pretty good chance to get away with everything with only a slap on the wrist concidering the series track record.

[GoldFox]

Where is magic circle? In Vivid and Force them not
And what happened to the power levels? double-S magicians are very few, Signum in unison S +, Bureau found Nanoha in the first season when she was still S-, and then some guys put these magicians and nobody catches. What nonsense?
Force, i am dissapoint.

[Blank-Mage]

Fate, Wolkenritter, numbers, Agito, Einhart... yeah I'd say they've got a pretty good chance to get away with everything with only a slap on the wrist concidering the series track record.

"My, Fate. You seem to have tried to, ah, destroy reality. I'm pretty sure that's..."
*Fate makes sad eyes*
"...it's.... you can't... God, damn it."

"Alright, Hayate, you almost killed an entire planet. I'm afraid you-"
"That wasn't me."
"Yes, actually, it was."
"The girl in the book made me do it."
"...I guess cases of Artifact posses-"
"Also, can I keep my Knights? I promise they won't kill anyone. Probably."
"What? No! They're trained murder programs designed only t-"
"Kay thanks! Let's go, guys!" "Yes, Mistress."

"Vivio, you are charged with aiding and ab-"
*Vivio makes sad eyes*
"No! That won't work on me again, not-"
*Nanoha makes sad eyes*
"DAMMIT TAKAMACHI"

[prescience]

Where is magic circle? In Vivid and Force them not
What is this I don't even

And what happened to the power levels? double-S magicians are very few, Signum in unison S +, Bureau found Nanoha in the first season when she was still S-, and then some guys put these magicians and nobody catches. What nonsense?
Force, i am dissapoint.
This has been beaten to death with a baseball bat already - powerlevels != combat effectiveness. Refer to the StrikerS manga, and the earlier parts of this thread for an extended discussion.

"Also, can I keep my Knights? I promise they won't kill anyone. Probably."
Have you tried Shamal's cooking? Sodium pentobarbital isn't exactly a healthy salt replacement... :p

[MeisterBabylon]

"My, Fate. You seem to have tried to, ah, destroy reality. I'm pretty sure that's..."
*Fate makes sad eyes*
"...it's.... you can't... God, damn it."

"Alright, Hayate, you almost killed an entire planet. I'm afraid you-"
"That wasn't me."
"Yes, actually, it was."
"The girl in the book made me do it."
"...I guess cases of Artifact posses-"
"Also, can I keep my Knights? I promise they won't kill anyone. Probably."
"What? No! They're trained murder programs designed only t-"
"Kay thanks! Let's go, guys!" "Yes, Mistress."

"Vivio, you are charged with aiding and ab-"
*Vivio makes sad eyes*
"No! That won't work on me again, not-"
*Nanoha makes sad eyes*
"DAMMIT TAKAMACHI"

Totally seconded there. Chrono, you suck as a judge. :p

[Keroko]

"My, Fate. You seem to have tried to, ah, destroy reality. I'm pretty sure that's..."
*Fate makes sad eyes*
"...it's.... you can't... God, damn it."

"Alright, Hayate, you almost killed an entire planet. I'm afraid you-"
"That wasn't me."
"Yes, actually, it was."
"The girl in the book made me do it."
"...I guess cases of Artifact posses-"
"Also, can I keep my Knights? I promise they won't kill anyone. Probably."
"What? No! They're trained murder programs designed only t-"
"Kay thanks! Let's go, guys!" "Yes, Mistress."

"Vivio, you are charged with aiding and ab-"
*Vivio makes sad eyes*
"No! That won't work on me again, not-"
*Nanoha makes sad eyes*
"DAMMIT TAKAMACHI"

That explains the little girl in Veyron's team. They need someone cute and cuddly to make sad eyes.

[GoldFox]

What is this I don't even
Everybody use a Magic circle (http://rghost.ru/1779246.view) for a cast. including artificial wizards and numbers. But in Force and Vivid they are not present, and at the Divider I have not noticed them.
machine-translate is machine

This has been beaten to death with a baseball bat already - powerlevels != combat effectiveness. Refer to the StrikerS manga, and the earlier parts of this thread for an extended discussion.
i agree, but Signum and Cypha both close range, and using swords. In difference from considered in Strikers a case with Hayate

[LoweGear]

Everybody use a Magic circle (http://rghost.ru/1779246.view) for a cast. including artificial wizards and numbers. But in Force and Vivid they are not present, and at the Divider I have not noticed them.
machine-translate is machine


But they still are present in ViviD and Force. Here's some examples from the first chapters of ViviD and Force-

Vivid Chapter 1, Vivio uses a Belka Magic Circle:
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/2599/mvividviviomemory01memo.th.jpg (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/mvividviviomemory01memo.jpg/)

Force Chapter 1, Thoma uses a Midchildan Magic Circle:
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/4518/frecord0119.th.jpg (http://img697.imageshack.us/i/frecord0119.jpg/)

Force Chapter 4, Thoma uses a new magic circle with the Divider:
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/18/trecord0416.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/i/trecord0416.jpg/)

[GoldFox]

LoweGear
senks, but I want to see Corona's magic circle, she use new magic, and the Divider from above

[Bananoha]

LoweGear
senks, but I want to see Corona's magic circle, she use new magic, and the Divider from abovezzz Corona (http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz248/opanpon/MGLN/f6a4b69c.jpg)
zzz Cypha's Reacted Divider (http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz248/opanpon/MGLN/bbd09bf2.jpg)

[GoldFox]

wow, where i can find raw 7 chapter Force?

[RadiantBeam]

wow, where i can find raw 7 chapter Force?

So far as I know, the full raws for chapter 7 haven't been released yet. We only have a few images of Signum being OMGWTFPWNED by Cypha.

[Arkeus]

So far as I know, the full raws for chapter 7 haven't been released yet. We only have a few images of Signum being OMGWTFPWNED by Cypha.

a bit more than that (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3071797&postcount=9452).

[Tabasco]

Have you tried Shamal's cooking? Sodium pentobarbital isn't exactly a healthy salt replacement... :p

But it lowers blood pressure and relieves stress! Really, really well... And in fairness, Fate is probably the all time champ at 'sad eyes.'

Anyway, the legal aspect of how the TSAB does business is interesting. One thing that didn't get mentioned was that they seem to prefer a quid pro quo arrangement more than direct punishment. Serve a term in the Bureau the same way that they used to have minor criminals do a hitch in the Army or Marines in the US.

Granted, we're talking about epic scale damage to reality rather than petty theft, but it seems to work for them. One of the advantages of a fictional universe, or is there some kind of psych profiling that suggest that a defendant might benefit from that I wonder?

[RadiantBeam]

a bit more than that (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=3071797&postcount=9452).

.... How did I miss that?

Thanks for the link!

[Bananoha]

.... How did I miss that?

Thanks for the link!Btw, any sign of full raws yet?sup Nina, go post Leoheart's raws.

And if someone thinks I'll scanlate with those, you best be joking.Raw for Force 06 is out...as to where to get it, ask on my profile >.>.
Edit : ok, link has been fixed... twice (つд`).Didn't realize where/what Nina's been doing recently, so just look at her visitor messages for a link to the blog.Click the little arrow thing to go to her post to view her profile or something. ;A; *in class and lazy*

[Tiresias]

Anyway, the legal aspect of how the TSAB does business is interesting. One thing that didn't get mentioned was that they seem to prefer a quid pro quo arrangement more than direct punishment. Serve a term in the Bureau the same way that they used to have minor criminals do a hitch in the Army or Marines in the US.

Granted, we're talking about epic scale damage to reality rather than petty theft, but it seems to work for them. One of the advantages of a fictional universe, or is there some kind of psych profiling that suggest that a defendant might benefit from that I wonder?

TSAB probably just have a special military unit comprised of convicts to do the heavy works (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_battalion). The ones we know (Fate, Wolkenritter, Numbers, Agito) are just strong enough to survive and complete their term. They're just lucky enough to live in a somewhat peaceful time; if it were the Belkan Civil War they'd probably end up as cannon fodders just like the real life equivalents.

But yeah, personally I don't think Cypha deserves such privilege, especially after she boasts on purposely killing civilians. If she survive, they should lock her up like what they did with Jail S-s-(argh)-Spaghetti (something) as well as the smug one with glasses.

On an unrelated note, news has it that Nanoha's "befriending" of Fate has inspired a certain magical boy teacher (http://vetus.wordpress.com/2010/06/02/291-why-we-fight/)...I can only hope that when he said friend, there was no quotes...

[JINNSK]

This month Force Analyzer doesn't have new info.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/nanoha/magazine/nyantype/th_Nyantype201007_Cypha2.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/nanoha/magazine/nyantype/Nyantype201007_Cypha2.jpg)

[GoldFox]

LVD
Sensei! Sorry, but i don't 'now what blog are you talking about ^_^

[Bananoha]

k go look around Nina's profile yourself. (http://forums.animesuki.com/member.php?u=66994)

先生じゃない。引きこもりだよ。This month Force Analyzer doesn't have new info.
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/nanoha/magazine/nyantype/th_Nyantype201007_Cypha2.jpg (http://s264.photobucket.com/albums/ii189/JINNSK/nanoha/magazine/nyantype/Nyantype201007_Cypha2.jpg)Sankyuu. The sword is still cool to look at. I didn't notice the revolver or trigger at all until I started reading the memo. ._.;アイシスメモ

●それはそもそもEC兵器の一部、ディバイダーと呼ばれているものらしい
●ディバイダー９４４の基本形態は長刀。リボルバーとトリガーはなし
●しかし「リアクト」することによって長刀にリボルバーとトリガーが出現、それとは別に小刀が追加されて二 刀流になる
●サイファーが言うには「世界を殺す、猛毒」なのだとか
●形がものすごく凶悪に！Isis Memo

●Originally part of the EC weapon, it is called a Divider.
●Basic form of Divider 944 is a long sword. There is no revolver or trigger.
●However, when it's "Reacted", the revolver and trigger appear and the knife becomes another sword.
●Cypha claims it's the "poison that will kill the world"
●The shape is villainous!

[GoldFox]

先生じゃない。
No, I insist
Also, thank you very much. * Bow *

[Lord Pertinax]

"My, Fate. You seem to have tried to, ah, destroy reality. I'm pretty sure that's..."
*Fate makes sad eyes*
"...it's.... you can't... God, damn it."

"Alright, Hayate, you almost killed an entire planet. I'm afraid you-"
"That wasn't me."
"Yes, actually, it was."
"The girl in the book made me do it."
"...I guess cases of Artifact posses-"
"Also, can I keep my Knights? I promise they won't kill anyone. Probably."
"What? No! They're trained murder programs designed only t-"
"Kay thanks! Let's go, guys!" "Yes, Mistress."

"Vivio, you are charged with aiding and ab-"
*Vivio makes sad eyes*
"No! That won't work on me again, not-"
*Nanoha makes sad eyes*
"DAMMIT TAKAMACHI"

Pure genious.

[dahak]

zzz Corona (http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz248/opanpon/MGLN/f6a4b69c.jpg)


Looks to be using a Mid Summoning circle or similar.

Am I wrong in suspecting Lily is Rio?

[itanshi1]

Wild theory there, what's the basis?

[RadiantBeam]

Would be a little hard to believe, considering Rio is about.... two or so years younger than Lily appears to be in Force, has dark hair, and if I remember correctly, Vivid takes place in the canon timeline before Force does.

[Marsala]

On an unrelated note, news has it that Nanoha's "befriending" of Fate has inspired a certain magical boy teacher (http://vetus.wordpress.com/2010/06/02/291-why-we-fight/)...I can only hope that when he said friend, there was no quotes...

Well, at least Negi and his Fate just have a straight rivalry/future friendship without the ambiguously homoerotic elements, right?
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/6611/negisensei.png (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/negisensei.png/)

Uh-oh.

[Kikaifan]

So.

Cypha's sword is the poison that will kill the world.

Signum's sword is the fire that that will burn the world.

Intentional parallel?

[Tiresias]

So.

Cypha's sword is the poison that will kill the world.

Signum's sword is the fire that that will burn the world.

Intentional parallel?

I haven't watch the series for a while so I don't remember about Signum; when was it stated? But yeah, that would make an obvious rivalry...;)

Btw, how many Force Dimension has been translated?

[Rising Dragon]

IIRC, wasn't "poison that will kill the world" said about the Eclipse itself, not about Cypha's Divider weapon?

Also I don't ever remember anything like that being said about Laevatein either.

[Key Board]

as expected, a Divider has magic nullification properties (in addition to other things)

and what ironic timing.. Nanoha's Strike Canon has completed its trial phase and is ready for field sortie

poor Signum, but it seems she bought some time

I'm going to suspect that Touma is going berserk and will further delay things the next chapter

in that meantime who will catch up? Nanoha with Strike Canon or Subaru? (she's a combat cyborg, so she has less disadvantages against a Divider)

[Kikaifan]

IIRC, wasn't "poison that will kill the world" said about the Eclipse itself, not about Cypha's Divider weapon?

Also I don't ever remember anything like that being said about Laevatein either.

Oh. That Force Analyzer bit that just got posted made it sound like it was the sword.

The mythological Laevateinn is sometimes thought to be the sword Surtr used when he severed the roots of the world tree and covered the world in fire.

[Rising Dragon]

Oh. That Force Analyzer bit that just got posted made it sound like it was the sword.

The mythological Laevateinn is sometimes thought to be the sword Surtr used when he severed the roots of the world tree and covered the world in fire.

Yeah I know about Laevatein's mythological origins, but I don't recall anything being said about Signum's Laevatein, which is where it really matters, I think.

And I remember the world-killing poison line was mentioned some time ago before we got this scan of the Force Analyzer, in conjunction with the Eclipse rather than the Divider, which is why I made mention of it. LVD probably remembers better because I'm pretty certain she's the one who posted the line.

[Tk3997]

Fate,was a minor being coerced by her parent, even today she'd not be held seriously responsible.


Wolkenritter,Did not kill anyone and made all efforts to minimize the damage the book was causing, they also helped stop it. Even so they seem to have been basically impressed into service too the TSAB. Some level of compulsion might also be argued since they were effectively extensions of the book.


numbers, Those most responsible and most clearly having a choice to aid the plot were imprisoned and are so far as we know still there. Some of the younger ones, who seem to have not actually killed anyone, and showed the possibility to reform were once more apparently impressed into the TSAB service in lieu of imprisonment.


Agito, It's unclear if the TSAB would class a device in the same manner as a person legally speaking. Without a clear answer this one is hard to class, if she's considered to just be a device then her (deceased) owner would be the one responsible not her.

Einhart...Again a juvenile whose crimes amounted more to delinquency then anything.

None of those pardoned (well pardoned in the sense of seemingly being pressed into TSAB service to be used in potentially life threatening assignments) were violent murders who'd slaughtered dozens of people by their own admission. Those that came close, Jail and the hardcore numbers, were indeed thrown in prison and remain there.


yeah I'd say they've got a pretty good chance to get away with everything with only a slap on the wrist concidering the series track record.Only if you're ignorant of legal systems and don't consider the cases based on a totality of the circumstances. The people above mostly got off becasue the facts of the case (in the form of the story) were arranged to make that possible.

Cypha has admitted to slaughtering an entire town for basically no reason, showed not a hint of remorse, and even bragged about how she did it. That's is not even in the same ballpark as what the others above did.



"Alright, Hayate, you almost killed an entire planet. I'm afraid you-"
"That wasn't me."
"Yes, actually, it was."
"The girl in the book made me do it."
"...I guess cases of Artifact posses-"
It's okay up to here, but then you go off the rails it's really more like this.

"Also, can I keep my Knights? I promise they won't kill anyone. Probably."
"Sure you can."
"Really?"
"Yeah, I mean sure they're trained murder machines, but now they'll be OUR trained murder machines. Oh but if you want to stay with them you have to enlist too, oh and all of you will be assigned to dangerous life threatening jobs chasing criminals, oh and if you refuse it's prison for all of them."
"Wow, you guys are dicks."
"Of course we are, we're the government after all."

[Arkeus]

"Also, can I keep my Knights? I promise they won't kill anyone. Probably."
"Sure you can."
"Really?"
"Yeah, I mean sure they're trained murder machines, but now they'll be OUR trained murder machines. Oh but if you want to stay with them you have to enlist too, oh and all of you will be assigned to dangerous life threatening jobs chasing criminals, oh and if you refuse it's prison for all of them."
"Wow, you guys are dicks."
"Of course we are, we're the government after all."
also,
"Oh! Can i be Governement too :D?" is Hayate's answer :p

But, yeah, Fate *did* activate JS when it could have killed people and helped her mother even if she knew the risks. Sure, she was coerced, but i am pretty sure there must be laws for juvenile high-ranking mages about responsability of their actions.

Also, Hayate could either say 'i ordered my knights to attack TSAB personnels ' (which they did even prior to meeting nanoha), or else said 'yeah, my knights who are programs known for having killed thousands of people in earlier incarnation went rogue and refused my orders not to attack people. But it was to protect me and not a subroutine of the book that made the made them do it. They aren't going rogue or anything'.

So, Hayate got the fault.

[Rising Dragon]

I don't remember Fate activating any Jewel Seeds... do remember her sealing one without Bardiche's aid, though.

[Arkeus]

I don't remember Fate activating any Jewel Seeds... do remember her sealing one without Bardiche's aid, though.

she activated... 7(?) of them above the sea. A bit of bad luck, and it could have created a tsunami or something.

[Moczo]

Oh. That Force Analyzer bit that just got posted made it sound like it was the sword.

The mythological Laevateinn is sometimes thought to be the sword Surtr used when he severed the roots of the world tree and covered the world in fire.

Yeah I know about Laevatein's mythological origins, but I don't recall anything being said about Signum's Laevatein, which is where it really matters, I think.

And I remember the world-killing poison line was mentioned some time ago before we got this scan of the Force Analyzer, in conjunction with the Eclipse rather than the Divider, which is why I made mention of it. LVD probably remembers better because I'm pretty certain she's the one who posted the line.

The first time I remember that line being mentioned was just after Veyron's run-in with Thoma (God, it's going to take awhile to get used to spelling it like that instead of 'Touma'). Deville and Fortis were talking about the need to get him a new weapon, he said that the one he had was good enough, and what followed was along the lines of, "Yes, a Divider by itself is a remarkable weapon, but when paired with a Reactor it becomes 'a poison that will kill the world'."

So I'm guessing that title indeed applies to Eclipse itself, or just Reacted Dividers in general rather than Cypha's in particular.

[RadiantBeam]

was a minor being coerced by her parent, even today she'd not be held seriously responsible.

Actually, I give you a point on the minor, but I don't know how much Fate was "coerced" into doing anything for Precia. Being coerced usually means that it's being done against the person's will, and Fate had no real problem with gathering the Jewel Seeds; she was just reluctant to hurt Nanoha.

[Nya~n]

a minor that is influenced by an authority figure to carry out act of aggression. it's the same as statutory rape, even if the minor is willing.

[RadiantBeam]

Bah, all right, then. I stand corrected. ^^;;;;;; My bad.

[Nanya01]

Just so everyone knows...


co·erce
–verb (used with object),-erced, -erc·ing.
1.
to compel by force, intimidation, or authority, esp. without regard for individual desire or volition: They coerced him into signing the document.
2.
to bring about through the use of force or other forms of compulsion; exact: to coerce obedience.
3.
to dominate or control, esp. by exploiting fear, anxiety, etc.: The state is based on successfully coercing the individual.

[dahak]

Would be a little hard to believe, considering Rio is about.... two or so years younger than Lily appears to be in Force, has dark hair, and if I remember correctly, Vivid takes place in the canon timeline before Force does.

Because I am incompetent, I mixed up Lily and Isis.

Looking younger in Vivid is fine due to there being two years toi grow up before Force and adult form magics running around.

[RadiantBeam]

Because I am incompetent, I mixed up Lily and Isis.

Looking younger in Vivid is fine due to there being two years toi grow up before Force and adult form magics running around.

So, what, now you think that Rio grew up to become Isis? :heh:

[Bananoha]

WELL, Rio and Isis are both pettan /run

And the poison that'll kill the world stuff is just their leader's take on it, but I'm not sure how to take it. owo;Btw, how many Force Dimension has been translated?Just the first one. I don't touch things other people have scanlated unless I'm given the okay. :3

Isis was pretty orz in the second one though.It's unclear if the TSAB would class a device in the same manner as a person legally speaking. Without a clear answer this one is hard to class, if she's considered to just be a device then her (deceased) owner would be the one responsible not her.Well, Agito has her own Criminal Registration Card (http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz248/opanpon/MGLN/1674d1ed.jpg) and even a spiffy new card for when she's part of the TSAB. (http://i832.photobucket.com/albums/zz248/opanpon/MGLN/98b669fd.jpg)

Speaking of those cards, what's the English for マウクラン? Lutecia's card is the only one I haven't seen that I care about. orzas expected, a Divider has magic nullification properties (in addition to other things)Dividing by zero for real ololol.

稼動状態のディバイダーは魔力エネルギーの結合分断という共通性能を持ち、魔力による弾丸や物質を全て無力 化する。
When the Divider is activated, it possesses the ability to break apart the bonds of magical energy, acting like a bullet that can completely nullify magic.

Or something, yeah?

[Nightengale]

稼動状態のディバイダーは魔力エネルギーの結合分断という共通性能を持ち、魔力による弾丸や物質を全て無力 化する。
When the Divider is activated, it possesses the ability to break apart the bonds of magical energy, acting like a bullet that can completely nullify magic.

Or something, yeah?

But that's the exact same property that AMF has! Though Divider is clearly a more active and much much more potent proponent.

Belka's physical-based style was also supposed to be a better counter to magic-nullifying tricks back in StrikerS, but alas.

I really wish they didn't actually go ahead and recycle the whole 'break magic bonds and nullify magic' stuff. It makes for easy bending of plot inconsistencies, just because.

[Jimmy C]

My take on it is that Divider has a more intense anti-magic effect than AMF, but it's localized to the frame of the device itself or only a short distance from it in comparison. It's worse for Belkans because it hits them with a physical attack within an anti-magic effect that nullifies their strengthening magic at the moment it connects.

Edit: Just got the Chinese trans of this chapter. Fun stuff, Einhart's counter was to grab Vivio's attack and throw it back at her. Causing Vivio to do 800 points damage to herself. Followed by a slam worth a further 1100 points damage.

[Kaijo]

The TSAB's outlook in general makes sense, for an enlightened society. The important thing about dealing with criminals, is to make sure they don't hurt society again. A lot of times, someone turns to crime when they feel they have no other choice. But if you keep throwing everyone in jail then you end up like the US, which has the highest percentage of it's population in jail (yes, higher than China).

Take a runaway. They have to steal to survive, and along the way, one of their theft attempts leaves someone dead. You can hunt them down and lock them up for 30 years, or give them the means to live within society as a productive person. If you do, odds are they'll never steal or kill someone. Whereas once they get out of jail after 20 years (good behavior), they have to write on job applications "Yes" to "have you ever been convicted of a crime and served jail time." Which hurts their job prospects, and now they go right back to stealing and perhaps killing to survive.

A similar principle applies to Nanoha antagonists: find out why they committed "bad acts" and institute a solid reason for them not to anymore. Get the person to channel their energies to a more positive purpose and/or make them feel a part of society, and they are less likely to want to harm it. With Fate, the Wolkenritter, and most of the numbers, they've succeeded.

It's satisfying to get "revenge" by locking a "bad" person up or giving them the death sentence, but ultimately harmful to society in the long run. Yes, there are truly bad people you'll need to lock up for a long time; but the vast majority can be redeemed. It just feels "wrong" to let someone go who hurt a lot of people.

The eclipse "poison" seems like AMF in all over again. Can't they have antagonists who are just strong and don't rely on neutralizing magic all over again?

Edit: JimmyC's explanation makes sense as a way of differentiating it from AMF, but it still rubs me the wrong way. Hard to reconcile with "poison that will destroy the world" though unless it's literally an anti-life kind of thing, and degrades *anything* it touches.

[Jimmy C]

Do note that there seems to be a difference between Divider and Eclipse. We've been talking only about Divider so far.

[Kikaifan]

My take on it is that Divider has a more intense anti-magic effect than AMF, but it's localized to the frame of the device itself or only a short distance from it in comparison. It's worse for Belkans because it hits them with a physical attack within an anti-magic effect that nullifies their strengthening magic at the moment it connects.

Er, wasn't the Belkan combat augmentation magic supposed to be immune to AMF because it used unlinked mana or something?

[Nanya01]

Er, wasn't the Belkan combat augmentation magic supposed to be immune to AMF because it used unlinked mana or something?

No... They used magic just like Mid-style mages did.

The thing is, their weapons are still physical weapons capable of smashing and slicing even without magic.

In the Cradle, Vita, after all the magic has been blocked, is seen smashing things with Graf Eisen in its base form.

[Lord Pertinax]

No info about the episodes?

[Rising Dragon]

she activated... 7(?) of them above the sea. A bit of bad luck, and it could have created a tsunami or something.

The first time I remember that line being mentioned was just after Veyron's run-in with Thoma (God, it's going to take awhile to get used to spelling it like that instead of 'Touma'). Deville and Fortis were talking about the need to get him a new weapon, he said that the one he had was good enough, and what followed was along the lines of, "Yes, a Divider by itself is a remarkable weapon, but when paired with a Reactor it becomes 'a poison that will kill the world'."

So I'm guessing that title indeed applies to Eclipse itself, or just Reacted Dividers in general rather than Cypha's in particular.

... I swear to Christ, my memory no longer exists. Bah.

[Kikaifan]

No... They used magic just like Mid-style mages did.

The thing is, their weapons are still physical weapons capable of smashing and slicing even without magic.

In the Cradle, Vita, after all the magic has been blocked, is seen smashing things with Graf Eisen in its base form.

Found it.

ナックルダスター Knuckle-duster
(StS DVD1)
An impact attack using Revolver Knuckle. Boosts Mana via rotation of the spinner, strengthening the upper body and fists. Destroys the target with a direct attack.
As with this attack, close combat Belkan practitioners are able to fight in a manner that does not rely on mana linkage, in general making it easier for them to deal with Anti Magilink-Fields.

Mana is used, mana linkage is not.

[Keroko]

In other words: Easier, not immune.

Movie chapter 9 is out and uploaded by the way. Fight continues, bit of 'finding out poor Fate's background' and another stalemate at the end.

[Koveras Alvane]

Sorry, I've been away for a couple of days and your posts have been so interesting, I can't help by reply to each one, so brace for a long post impact....

I like scars.
Hey, womans with scars are hot (http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4485/vmmlrivals02final.jpg). :naughty:

Scars + body to kill for = hawtness so intense, it melts everybody's brains

Too bad Signum's Barrier Jacket will cover whatever scars she gets. :(

Just was thinking of the images of Signum getting beaten up and, well... Got a weird thought.

Signum: Who are you?

Cypha: Me? Just the one who's going to kill you.

*Signum gets sliced up*

Signum: ...Tis just a flesh wound.

Cypha: My bad! *Stabs Signum in the gut.*

Signum: ...I fight... on!

Cypha: ...You're not unisoned anymore and your sword is broke and I stabbed you in the gut, you lose.

Signum: I fight on! *Pulls out Cypha's sword from her belly.*

Cypha: ...Wow, and I thought Veyron was stubborn.

Alternative ending:

Signum: *grabs the Divider with one hand* Commence nullification of data link.

Cypha: CRAP!

This confirms it. I now ship Cypha/Signum.

Welcome to the club. %)

Of course they chickened out because she's awesome, which is also why Signum is perfectly safe.

*shakes hand*

He may well have, but I happen to think that trolling is taking the form of having a Male lead who'll probably end up being the big damn hero of the season. Which for a magic girl series is you must admit a enormous troll, just look at allot of heat the series got initially over it.

Yeah, that's true. :D That maybe the whole reason they dropped "Girl" from the title...

It hasn't really bothered me as mentioned Thoma is a kid in over his head IMO. To me making him be some uber badass right off the bat would come off as cheesy and illogical, he's trying to cope with forces beyond his experience level and capabilities. I think it's telling his first thought after first being exposed was to try and go contact someone in the TSAB he could trust.

Remind me, didn't he go toe to toe with Veyron in their first engagement? :eyebrow: He is basically an uber badass already, so I want him to start acting like one, too.

I do agree more on the front of Eclipse itself; the characters clearly know a reasonable amount about this thing which seems to have some history. We're being given only bits and pieces though and it is a tad annoying, but also I must admit a bit intriguing. Having the characters know more then the reader is not automatically a bad thing and so far it's not crossed over into the realm of making the plot incomprehensible so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here.

Well, it was intriguing for me, too... for the first five chapters. ^^ Then, it got annoying. I am generally a patient person, but mystery should find balance between teasing and reveals, and Force is currently running dangerously deep into the teasing zone, and I am afraid, this will all end in a chapter(s?)-long infodump that will attempt to explain everything at once.

The pacing I think it's too early to call, but it seems alright too me. I can't recall if we've actually had any clear word on how long the series is going to run. If this really is supposed to be a pseudo-season four it could run for quite a while and we could just be in the initial set up in which case a slow rolling start gaining momentum is fine. If it ends up wasting time at the start and then ends in a rush job (I'm looking at you Strikers) when they suddenly run out of time then we've got a problem. It is personal preference though.

Well, I may have been unfair earlier, since the original a-chapter-every-other-month publishing rate may have influence my perception...

I don't think Signum would either frankly. :p

She doesn't have the right to object, frankly. It's her who got befriended this time, after all. :D

Well, there is the possibility (suggested by Force NEXT design 03) that Eclipse users aren't exactly operating under their own free will. Maybe Cypha originally wasn't a sociapathic mass-murderer, and if she's cured she'll return to her original personality? Doesn't seem very likely, though. In the meanwhile, I'm just looking forward to seeing how (if) the befriending happens...

Interestingly, one of the first theories I had after chapter 1 came out (purely intuitive, then), was the Eclipse is some form of distributed system that turns people into mind-controlled killing machines. The center of its hive mind is the "Bible of Silver Cross". This would also explain the apparent time lags between questions and answers when Touma asks Veyron whether he was the one who destroyed that Vaizen village and when Signum asks Cypha a similar thing. At first, they don't seem to recall it but then claim that it was them.

Seeing how Hückebein is at least seven people strong, it was either a rather contrived coincidence, or Veyron and Cypha claimed to be the murderers despite technically not being them. The latter may be because they are generally jerkasses, or they quite intentionally tried to provoke their opponent to fight. OR they may have not been physically present for the murders on Vaizen and the one frontier world, but the hive mind immediately transferred the memories of the massacres from actual perpetrators to them (that's what the time lag was about).

About Signum's supposed new weapon, I hope we see it in next month's Force NEXT. Sturm Falke needs more love, but a second sword wouldn't be bad either. Of course, Signum already uses Laevatein's sheath in her off-hand for defense, so I'm not sure how that would fit in.

Ronoroa Zoro's three-sword technique? *gets hit by stones*

Alternatively, it could be one of these (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol_sword). Or, since Cypha's attacks is shown to be able to wreck even Levantine, it Could be a buckler shield or maybe even an armor. Ultimate Tank Signum, anyone?

Signum + shield = no, just no

IMO Signum embodies "offense is best defense" principle (which is why she initially refused to train the Forwards), so giving her defensive equipment besides her Knight Armor and Laevatein's sheath would really cramp her style.

The TSAB's outlook in general makes sense, for an enlightened society. The important thing about dealing with criminals, is to make sure they don't hurt society again. A lot of times, someone turns to crime when they feel they have no other choice. But if you keep throwing everyone in jail then you end up like the US, which has the highest percentage of it's population in jail (yes, higher than China).

Take a runaway. They have to steal to survive, and along the way, one of their theft attempts leaves someone dead. You can hunt them down and lock them up for 30 years, or give them the means to live within society as a productive person. If you do, odds are they'll never steal or kill someone. Whereas once they get out of jail after 20 years (good behavior), they have to write on job applications "Yes" to "have you ever been convicted of a crime and served jail time." Which hurts their job prospects, and now they go right back to stealing and perhaps killing to survive.

A similar principle applies to Nanoha antagonists: find out why they committed "bad acts" and institute a solid reason for them not to anymore. Get the person to channel their energies to a more positive purpose and/or make them feel a part of society, and they are less likely to want to harm it. With Fate, the Wolkenritter, and most of the numbers, they've succeeded.

It's satisfying to get "revenge" by locking a "bad" person up or giving them the death sentence, but ultimately harmful to society in the long run. Yes, there are truly bad people you'll need to lock up for a long time; but the vast majority can be redeemed. It just feels "wrong" to let someone go who hurt a lot of people.

That, and TSAB is really short on hands, as Chrono explains in one Sound Stage. If they are not above hiring 9-year-old girls from remote worlds, they certainly don't have a problem with penal labor, especially with the nifty output limiter trick they've got up their sleeves.

The eclipse "poison" seems like AMF in all over again. Can't they have antagonists who are just strong and don't rely on neutralizing magic all over again?

No, they can't. Because the old cast killed Cthulhu in the second season, and are henceforth acknowledged as the meanest mothers in the multiverse.

Do note that there seems to be a difference between Divider and Eclipse. We've been talking only about Divider so far.

The Divider's full name is "EC Divider", where "EC" presumably stands for "Eclipse", so whatever applies to the Divider, must also apply to the Eclipse...

[Moczo]

The eclipse "poison" seems like AMF in all over again. Can't they have antagonists who are just strong and don't rely on neutralizing magic all over again?


Well, there also seems to be some pretty serious body enhancement; Cypha grew back a severed arm, and from what I saw in the raws shattered Laevatein with her elbow.

So... anti-magic swords, and it turns the wielder into Wolverine?

[prescience]

Ronoroa Zoro's three-sword technique? *gets hit by stones*
Actually, I was thinking they'd keep giving her more until she became Gundam: Seven Swords. But the title of "More Gundam than Setsuna F. Seiei" seems more appropriate for the White Devil herself :p

[Koveras Alvane]

In the light of the recent "worlds poison" claims by the Hückebein, I am reminded of the very first page of chapter 1, which contained a contemplation on the necessity of magic and whether it is the source of strife in the universe. I wouldn't be surprised if this whole Eclipse business turns out to be an attempt to stop magic from working ever again on ideological grounds.

Actually, I was thinking they'd keep giving her more until she became Gundam: Seven Swords. But the title of "More Gundam than Setsuna F. Seiei" seems more appropriate for the White Devil herself :p

I've read a theory once that Signum is actually a time-traveling version of Nanoha herself. :D Also, I am sure that no matter how many swords you give to Signum, she will be able to wield them all at once naturally with the sheer awesome of her presence.

...I did mention being a hopeless Signum fanboy, didn't I? %)

[Kaijo]

No, they can't. Because the old cast killed Cthulhu in the second season, and are henceforth acknowledged as the meanest mothers in the multiverse.

A regenerating monster, that was technically defeated by the arc-en-ciel; and that was all of them going full out at the same time. I'd actually like to see a group of villains that, when they clash with our heroes, give a good accounting of themselves and the fight is fairly even. Or another reason why the heroes aren't at full strength or unable to fight, ie, like a disease that infects linker cores.

The Divider's full name is "EC Divider", where "EC" presumably stands for "Eclipse", so whatever applies to the Divider, must also apply to the Eclipse...

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. I thought they were basically the same thing.

Edit: Have we gotten any new translations of anything yet?

[Bananoha]

Well, there also seems to be some pretty serious body enhancement; Cypha grew back a severed arm, and from what I saw in the raws shattered Laevatein with her elbow.

So... anti-magic swords, and it turns the wielder into Wolverine?またEC感染者の
肉体は多様な
「病化」を起こし
特に強度の
病化は
感染者の肉体
そのものを
兵器へと変えるYeah, looks like EC strengthens the flesh and people can become living weapons.

And anti-magic gunblades, please. www

[MeisterBabylon]

...all these AM stuff makes you wonder why TSAB decided that magic is so good. Or perhaps, these AM disruption efforts are a direct response to the TSAB?

Anyway, sooner or later, Thoma is really going to become Touma. Case in point:

[LILY/DIVIDER996]

[MAXIMUM DRIVE]

"IMAGINE BREAKER!!"

No barrier jackets will be safe. Set phasers to maximum STRIP. :p

[RadiantBeam]

Movie chapter 9 is out and uploaded by the way. Fight continues, bit of 'finding out poor Fate's background' and another stalemate at the end.

Hmm, I'll have to check that out later tonight or tomorrow. I get the feeling I won't enjoy it considering how the whole story has developed thus far, but I could always be pleasantly surprised. Maybe. Possibly. Hopefully.

[MeisterBabylon]

...regretfully...? :uhoh:

[00-Raiser]

The chapter was quite dull, actually. I didn't even bother keeping the raw :uhoh:

[Key Board]

If Force Next variations are an indication

At the very least , it seems the Force will have 3 major characters: Nanoha, Subaru and Tohma

Sigum will probably out for a very long time

Vita is popular so she'll probably get to do something

Hayate? still sitting on her sexy ass

At this rate Fate might be phased out too, but that probably won't happen because people like her bondage outfit

//

[Bananoha]

Nanoha Strike Smash-ing Fate right to the face was pretty awesome. 8)

And while I do hope for more Nanoha in Force, I'd also like Hayate to get in on the action as well....

[itanshi1]

Could get a lot more ground covered as a weekly hmm

[MeisterBabylon]

I'm so glad that we at least have Force around when Vivid is determined to make our balls shrink... :heh:

[Demi.]

mM, movie manga ch. 9 was yum.

[Keroko]

Force 07 is up and running.

[RadiantBeam]

You know, the movie manga has gone and done the impossible for me. It took relatively interesting material (The Nanoha/Fate battle, the info about Fate's past) and made it incredibly boring for me.

I suppose that's an accomplishment in and of itself, though. :uhoh:

[Tiresias]

Force 07 is up and running.

I'm new in this, so please excuse me for asking: Is it the raw or the translated one, and where could I find them?

You know, the movie manga has gone and done the impossible for me. It took relatively interesting material (The Nanoha/Fate battle, the info about Fate's past) and made it incredibly boring for me.

I suppose that's an accomplishment in and of itself, though. :uhoh:

The problem with the movie manga is on the materials covering the time after the movie. I mean, how long has Nanoha VS Fate drag on already? In comparison, the other chapters (and other Nanoha side manga) usually spent one, or at most, two chapters on a topic...:( Nanoha VS Signum only needed one chapter to be awesome...

At least there's the one focused on Linith and Bardiche :p God I love catgirls :p

[prescience]

I'm new in this, so please excuse me for asking: Is it the raw or the translated one, and where could I find them?
Raw. Site policy forbids the posting of raws on the forums, which is why there isn't a link. You should find it with a quick Google.

The problem with the movie manga is on the materials covering the time after the movie. I mean, how long has Nanoha VS Fate drag on already? In comparison, the other chapters (and other Nanoha side manga) usually spent one, or at most, two chapters on a topic...:( Nanoha VS Signum only needed one chapter to be awesome...
Isn't the manga a completely separate continuity to the movie itself? Either way, it's dragging on way too long. I've stopped following it; maybe it'll be a decent read when it doesn't take a month between chapters, but right now it's painful...

[Demi.]

The movie manga is strictly NanoFate; when the final battle ends, it ends. There is nowhere else for it to go. Hence it dragging on isn't really an issue, since there is no more to be anticipated from it, lol. Except for who wins, which should already be pretty obvious.

It's the difference between having two characters to focus on, and the dozens from the other installments.

[Koveras Alvane]

Just read the raw. Signum-samaaa... T__T

The first indication that Hückebein may be not too bad inside may be how nice (if sometimes unceremonious) they are with each other, I think...

[Nanya01]

Found it.

ナックルダスター Knuckle-duster
(StS DVD1)
An impact attack using Revolver Knuckle. Boosts Mana via rotation of the spinner, strengthening the upper body and fists. Destroys the target with a direct attack.
As with this attack, close combat Belkan practitioners are able to fight in a manner that does not rely on mana linkage, in general making it easier for them to deal with Anti Magilink-Fields.

Mana is used, mana linkage is not.

I'm going to have to disagree here.

Why?

It goes against what's shown in the anime.

First training episode, Subaru uses Wing Road against the Drones, AMF goes up, Wing Road falls apart.

In the manga here (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahou_shoujo_lyrical_nanoha_strikers_the_comics/c002/11.html) and here (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahou_shoujo_lyrical_nanoha_strikers_the_comics/c002/12.html) talk about the effects of an AMF on a Belkan fighter.

Hayate: Inside, it (Belkan-style weapon) would just be an ordinary blade, but that's all a Knight needs.

Which was shown on the train-top battle when Erio got in close to the fat gadget drone, the AMF went up, and Strada became an ordinary spear.

Later on, in the cradle, Nanoha AND Vita were struck by the much stronger AMF and had to concentrate extra magic to keep from hurting themselves on the way down.

The only time Magic LINKS are mentioned was after Vivio was beaten and the cradle went "Now terminating all magic links." Hayate and Rein were canceled from Unison, I believe Rein stated she couldn't do any magic. Not sure though. Vita was seen smashing things with Graf Eisen in its normal form and not using any other magic. Subaru, later in the episode stated "I can't use any magic, good thing I can use my IS in my Combat Cyborg mode."

So, in effect, the DVD booklet seems to contradict what's seen in the anime *and* what's stated in the manga.

Makes me wonder about other information in the booklets and how accurate that is.

[Kikaifan]

Uh, the idea isn't that all Belkan magic is AMF-proof, it's that the physical enhancement magic is. Like, if magic doesn't need to leave your body it doesn't need to be linked for some reason.

[Key Board]

without magic, a belkan weapon is just a normal weapon

that's probably enough to beat up a bunch of thugs, but when your opponent is a super human with a divider that's not good

Subaru might fair better, however. She has both a magic and whatever compact thermonuclear fusion reactor she has that runs her IF

[RadiantBeam]

I'm new in this, so please excuse me for asking: Is it the raw or the translated one, and where could I find them?

Full raws I believe, since I checked out Mangafox this morning and there's been no update for the translated chapter 7. Mostly to find the full version I just plugged it into a search engine.

[Blank-Mage]

Just read the raw. Signum-samaaa... T__T

The first indication that Hückebein may be not too bad inside may be how nice (if sometimes unceremonious) they are with each other, I think...

They slaughtered Thoma's entire village. And a church full of nuns.

...They're way past the befriending horizon. Well, to be fair, some of the Numbers had a bloody history, but their reasons for fighting were somewhat understandable. After all, they couldn't really know any better, having been raised as bio-weapons.

"Right. All of you engaged in a large scale conflict against the TSAB and participated in unethical human experimentation including -but not limited to- the use of children as both power sources and bio-weapons. You also stand guilty of the murder of Knight Zest and Sgt. Nakajima, as well as dozens of other mages."

"Well, technically, YOU guys killed Zest."

"Wait, what?"

"And Nakajima said we could go live with her."
"And we're gonna be nuns!"
"I just want my mommy..."

"FINE! YOU KNOW WHAT, FINE! I DON'T CARE ANYMORE! JUST GO!"

"Great! C'mon, guys, I saw some buildings we didn't get to smash yet!"
"Wait, I missed one?"
"Hold on, I have to get my Impact Cannon."

[RadiantBeam]

Well, to be fair, some of the Numbers had a bloody history, but their reasons for fighting were somewhat understandable. After all, they couldn't really know any better, having been raised as bio-weapons.

Several of the Numbers were still imprisoned though for either staying loyal to Jail or staying loyal to another Number who was locked up for staying with Jail when things went badly with the Cradle. If I remember correctly, the only reason the Numbers who are still free even got off was because they agreed to work with the TSAB and go through programs. I'd also debate how much they actually knew they were doing, but that could get ugly fast, so I won't. :heh:

"Right. All of you engaged in a large scale conflict against the TSAB and participated in unethical human experimentation including -but not limited to- the use of children as both power sources and bio-weapons. You also stand guilty of the murder of Knight Zest and Sgt. Nakajima, as well as dozens of other mages."

"Um, Nakajima said we could go live with her."
"And we're gonna be nuns!"
"I want my mommy..."

"FINE! YOU KNOW WHAT, FINE! I DON'T CARE ANYMORE! JUST GO!"

"Great! C'mon, guys, I saw some buildings we didn't get to smash yet!"
"Wait, I missed one?"
"Hold on, I have to get my Impact Cannon."

Hmmm, I wonder where Garyuu would fit in there?

[Koveras Alvane]

They slaughtered Thoma's entire village. And a church full of nuns.

...They're way past the befriending horizon. Well, to be fair, some of the Numbers had a bloody history, but their reasons for fighting were somewhat understandable. After all, they couldn't really know any better, having been raised as bio-weapons.

Yeah, but I am still intuitively following the theory that they are all remotely controlled by whatever Eclipse really is. :)

[Kikaifan]

without magic, a belkan weapon is just a normal weapon

that's probably enough to beat up a bunch of thugs, but when your opponent is a super human with a divider that's not good

Subaru might fair better, however. She has both a magic and whatever compact thermonuclear fusion reactor she has that runs her IF

...without magic, a Belkan weapon doesn't exist, since it's a magical weapon.

[Kaijo]

CSI: Mid-Childa

"What have we got?"
"A Belkan Knight named Signum. Cause of death: poisonous stab wound to the stomach."
"Wow, and she was one of our most powerful mages."
"Well it looks like her role..."
*puts on sunglasses*
"...just got eclipsed."

YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!! !!!!!!!!!!!

[Koveras Alvane]

CSI: Mid-Childa

"What have we got?"
"A Belkan Knight named Signum. Cause of death: poisonous stab wound to the stomach."
"Wow, and she was one of our most powerful mages."
"Well it looks like her role..."
*puts on sunglasses*
"...just got eclipsed."

YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!! !!!!!!!!!!!

Pure genius. :heh: But... implying that Signum-sama is dead. :twitch:

[RadiantBeam]

Yeah, but I am still intuitively following the theory that they are all remotely controlled by whatever Eclipse really is. :)

Considering how they've talked about the Eclipse since they appeared, I think it would take a major plot twist for it be revealed that the family is being controlled by whatever Eclipse truly is. They seem to have full control over it and are perfectly aware of what they've done.

[Bananoha]

Ohhh, you'll prolly get your translated Force after the weekend.... e_e

Ergh, why does Touma make me think of the whole Bleach Ichigo Hollow thing.The only time Magic LINKS are mentioned was after Vivio was beaten and the cradle went "Now terminating all magic links." But, but.... AMF = anti magilink-field, wot.

IS system is hax too.

.... And I totally forget what I was really replying to. My memory....

[Koveras Alvane]

Considering how they've talked about the Eclipse since they appeared, I think it would take a major plot twist for it be revealed that the family is being controlled by whatever Eclipse truly is. They seem to have full control over it and are perfectly aware of what they've done.

Mind control can be subtle, too. ^^ The best way to keep your slaves from rebellion is letting them believe they are free and in control, after all. :3 But that's just my theory, which I hide behind to be able to ship Cypha/Signum, so don't mind me... much. >__>

[prescience]

I'd have to agree with Blank-Mage that the Hucks are well beyond the befriendability horizon, and I'm not too hopeful about them being redeemed in some way or another. But I still ship Cypha/Signum in spite of that...

Don't believe in yourself, believe in me who believes in you! Go beyond the impossible and kick reason to the curb! That's the Cypha/Signum way!

*shot*


"Right. All of you engaged in a large scale conflict against the TSAB and participated in unethical human experimentation including -but not limited to- the use of children as both power sources and bio-weapons. You also stand guilty of the murder of Knight Zest and Sgt. Nakajima, as well as dozens of other mages."

"Well, technically, YOU guys killed Zest."

"Wait, what?"

"And Nakajima said we could go live with her."
"And we're gonna be nuns!"
"I just want my mommy..."

"FINE! YOU KNOW WHAT, FINE! I DON'T CARE ANYMORE! JUST GO!"

"Great! C'mon, guys, I saw some buildings we didn't get to smash yet!"
"Wait, I missed one?"
"Hold on, I have to get my Impact Cannon."
LOL...

Also, Sein seems to be rather enthusiastic about becoming a nun. Maybe she knows about Carim's cosplay tendencies and is looking forward to it? :heh:

[itanshi1]

Funny when people insinuate things that have very obvious explanations in the mtg universe. You should all read the Weather Light saga. (first like 10 books or so, brothers war until timespiral) mr. dark lord had a psychic connection with his minions.

[Keroko]

So, in effect, the DVD booklet seems to contradict what's seen in the anime *and* what's stated in the manga.

Makes me wonder about other information in the booklets and how accurate that is.

The critical words in the booklet are 'able to' and 'easier', not immune. The Type-2's AMF was a lot tougher than the usual AMF they'd been fighting.

Hayate's words are confusing considering she also clearly says they'd rely on their weapon to 'boost their magical abilities' while in the field. An answer that explains the opposing lines is that knights rely on weapons to boost their powers, and that even a normal weapon in their hand becomes a deadly magical focus.

[MeisterBabylon]

Atrocious Crime Investigations: Mid-Childa

"What have we got?"
"Captain Lanstar, this appears to be a Belkan Knight named Signum. Cause of death: poisonous stab wound to the stomach."
"Wow, and she was one of our most powerful mages."
"Well it looks like her role..."
*puts on sunglasses*
"...just got eclipsed."

YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!! !!!!!!!!!!!Fixed for canonicity. :p

(Teana is part of ACI right? Think it was mentioned somewhere.)

[Lord Pertinax]

Pure genius. :heh: But... implying that Signum-sama is dead. :twitch:

If she died, she had a good dead in the batlefield. Blood was spilled and the gods were please, she can die witout shame. ALL PRAISES

[Koveras Alvane]

If she died, she had a good dead in the batlefield. Blood was spilled and the gods were please, she can die witout shame. ALL PRAISES

It wasn't a good death in the battlefield. O__o She didn't destroy a couple of planets beforehand, so it wasn't even near her personal awesomeness level. Or have I missed something?..

[Demi.]

Apparently the presence of blood is enough to warrant the death of a knight.

[Blank-Mage]

You'd think she would at least use the bow before she went, eh? You know, since it's her ultimate move.

Come to think of it, if it was ridiculous before, how ridiculous would it be when she's unisoned? My God, she might even rival Nanoha's Blaster Mode Starlight Breaker.

[MeisterBabylon]

I think that StrikerS' shoutout to Gundam stock footage of "FUNNELS = NUKES EXPLODING ON THE HORIZON" shows how ridiculous it is. :p

[Rising Dragon]

If the next Signum vs. Nanoha fight has Nanoha busting out the Blaster Bits while Signum has the Bow Form activated, we're probably gonna see Signum picking off the Bits one by one a la Freedom vs. Providence.

[prescience]

Of course, there's now also the possibility that Nanoha will pull out the Strike Cannon. Strike Cannon vs. Sturm Falke = O_0

Reading over the Force ch7 raws again, it seems that Signum and Agito cancel unison before Signum takes Cypha on. I wonder, is that because Signum knows she's going to lose and doesn't want Agito to get hurt? Or did she want Agito to check on Thoma or something? Either way, Agito seems to suffer sympathetic damage when Signum gets taken down.

Also, it looks like Cypha breaks Laevatein not with her Divider, but with her sleeve. Hax or art fail? Hmm...

[Tiresias]

If she died, she had a good dead in the batlefield. Blood was spilled and the gods were please, she can die witout shame. ALL PRAISES

Nah, chances are she would be REALLY wounded almost beyond saving, but there would be a some signs of life so the TSAB decides to modify her new weapon into a Dreadnought (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Dreadnought)-equivalent or something :D

"Even in death she shall serve..."

About the whole anti-magic thing, either the canon really does contradict each other or the translators are having troubles translating the magicbabbles on the extra materials. Is there any instance in all three animes that someone was rendered completely unable to use magic instead of just reduced efficiency? I mean, to the point that the magic level are zero?

[Koveras Alvane]

Reading over the Force ch7 raws again, it seems that Signum and Agito cancel unison before Signum takes Cypha on. I wonder, is that because Signum knows she's going to lose and doesn't want Agito to get hurt? Or did she want Agito to check on Thoma or something? Either way, Agito seems to suffer sympathetic damage when Signum gets taken down.

Actually, I've looked for the point at which they unison out, too, but couldn't find it. IIRC when Signum begins to charge, she still has wings, so they are still unisoned. However, some later frames show Agito floating in the air, but they may be an artistic rendition of her perception of space from within Signum (makes more sense to make the whole outer body transparent rather than having small windows like in StrikerS).

Also, it looks like Cypha breaks Laevatein not with her Divider, but with her sleeve. Hax or art fail? Hmm...

Hax, definitely. Remember, she seriously damaged Laevatein with her shoulder earlier, so no big surprise about breaking it on the second attempt with her forearm. And she is the type to humiliate her opponents, too.

About the whole anti-magic thing, either the canon really does contradict each other or the translators are having troubles translating the magicbabbles on the extra materials. Is there any instance in all three animes that someone was rendered completely unable to use magic instead of just reduced efficiency? I mean, to the point that the magic level are zero?

Yeah. ^^ Zest, Due, some unnamed characters...

[Keroko]

Zest was never shown to be completely unable to use magic, Due is a cyborg so she doesn't use magic in the first place, and the mooks... well, yeah, those were screwed. But then, they were mooks. They're meant to be screwed.

[Tiresias]

Yeah. ^^ Zest, Due, some unnamed characters...

I mean those who are still alive yet cannot use magic (as if they got hit by Imagine Breaker or Asuna or something) instead of being dead :p . From what I understand, all instance of anti magic in the series seems to be of the suppressing kind instead of total magic denial.:hmm:

I think Signum's defeat is less because of anti magic and more of inferior equipment (Divider) and magic power (Reactor; wait, did Cypha used one?). Hey, maybe the Mage Killer stuff is just the Mid-Childan equivalent of Cop Killers? :p

Btw, just how robotic is the Cyborgs? Metal skeletons aside, they still eat and sleep, and they can use spells too, such as Subaru's Divine Buster.

[Koveras Alvane]

Zest was never shown to be completely unable to use magic, Due is a cyborg so she doesn't use magic in the first place, and the mooks... well, yeah, those were screwed. But then, they were mooks. They're meant to be screwed.

Actually, I meant that they are dead, so they can't cast magic. ^^;

I mean those who are still alive yet cannot use magic (as if they got hit by Imagine Breaker or Asuna or something) instead of being dead :p .

The way I understand magic in Nanohaverse, completely barring a mage from releasing/processing mana is like preventing a warm-blooded creature from emitting heat. ^^ You can do it, but it's not healthy, and over longer periods of time, means the mage is dead.

From what I understand, all instance of anti magic in the series seems to be of the suppressing kind instead of total magic denial.:hmm:

The way I understand the difference between AMF and Zero Effect is kinda like between turning solid matter into gas and annihilating it with anti-matter. In the first case, the matter is still there, it is just shapeless and unusable for most tasks requiring solid matter. In the second case, matter is simply gone in a flash of light. So basically, AMF turns magical energy into something that cannot be properly used (at least, without special training or abilities), while Zero Effect reacts with the magic energy to insta-turn it into entropy. ^^

Also of note is that AMF is a field (which one can shield oneself against, which is probably what Combat Cyborgs do to use their IS inside it), whereas Zero Effect describes the reaction between magic and anti-magic energies, which cancels both out. So basically, Zero Effect is harmless as long as you evade the anti-magic weapons like the Dividers. I think.

I think Signum's defeat is less because of anti magic and more of inferior equipment (Divider) and magic power (Reactor; wait, did Cypha used one?). Hey, maybe the Mage Killer stuff is just the Mid-Childan equivalent of Cop Killers? :p

Cypha did use one, that was her second dagger which she thrusts into her hand.

Btw, just how robotic is the Cyborgs? Metal skeletons aside, they still eat and sleep, and they can use spells too, such as Subaru's Divine Buster.

They also can bear children, apparently. So they can't be that robotic. The question is actually how much magic is used to fuse their flesh with the metal skeletons. Because if it is all that prevents their bodies from realizing they have lots of foreign objects inside them, Subaru is in for some serious health problems...

[prescience]

Actually, I've looked for the point at which they unison out, too, but couldn't find it. IIRC when Signum begins to charge, she still has wings, so they are still unisoned. However, some later frames show Agito floating in the air, but they may be an artistic rendition of her perception of space from within Signum (makes more sense to make the whole outer body transparent rather than having small windows like in StrikerS).
Page 21 frame 2. In frame 1 we see Signum with the wings, and then in frame 3 they aren't there. The frames on page 26 showing Agito don't look anything like the usual rendition of unison; see pages 21 and 23 of chapter 6, for example.

[00-Raiser]

They also can bear children, apparently. So they can't be that robotic. The question is actually how much magic is used to fuse their flesh with the metal skeletons. Because if it is all that prevents their bodies from realizing they have lots of foreign objects inside them, Subaru is in for some serious health problems...

All the cyborgs have been genetically altered since conception to accept their cybernetic enhancements, so there is very little chance of rejection.

There's always a chance, I suppose, which is probably why Subaru and Ginga go see Mariel every so often. I assume Mariel also adjusts their parts for growth, allowing them to age normally.

[RadiantBeam]

There's always a chance, I suppose, which is probably why Subaru and Ginga go see Mariel every so often. I assume Mariel also adjusts their parts for growth, allowing them to age normally.

Somebody should make a fic out of that chance.... *shot*

[NorthernFallout]

Erio could have adjustable parts iykwim. It'd make a happy Caro hurfdurf

[Nya~n]

Caro: Oh, Erio, you're so... so... SO!
Erio: *smug*
Caro: But Voltaire's better.
Voltaire: RAWR
Erio: orz

[RadiantBeam]

Poor kid can't win against the giant dragon summon, even when he has adjustable parts!

[Koveras Alvane]

All the cyborgs have been genetically altered since conception to accept their cybernetic enhancements, so there is very little chance of rejection.

Ah, yes, I've read about that. ^^;

There's always a chance, I suppose, which is probably why Subaru and Ginga go see Mariel every so often. I assume Mariel also adjusts their parts for growth, allowing them to age normally.

Subaru might quit aging, however, if she wants to live until Ixy wakes up...

Poor kid can't win against the giant dragon summon, even when he has adjustable parts!

Oh, Caro and her summons... It's always the quiet ones.

[Tk3997]

*shakes hand*Hand shake? na man this calls for a *brofist* :p


Remind me, didn't he go toe to toe with Veyron in their first engagement? :eyebrow: He is basically an uber badass already, so I want him to start acting like one, too.Eh I didn't really get the idea Veyron was acutally going all out he certainly didn't seem very concerned. Beyond that he was still standing and totally unharmed at end while Thoma was laying on the floor bleeding... So yeah he went toe to toe for like 20 seconds and did not appreciable damage. That was also his first real fight, he might not even have known he'd gotten that powerful until he tapped his RAAAAGE and went ape shit on him. (for all the good it does, still more proof that hotblood is overrated.:p)


Well, it was intriguing for me, too... for the first five chapters. ^^ Then, it got annoying. I am generally a patient person, but mystery should find balance between teasing and reveals, and Force is currently running dangerously deep into the teasing zone, and I am afraid, this will all end in a chapter(s?)-long infodump that will attempt to explain everything at once.Hmm it is a matter of taste I'm not quite at my limit yet, though I'm getting their. At the moment I'm still giving them the benfit of the doubt cause I have a feeling some stuff is going to be revealed after this current fight ends. Also we have gotten bits and pieces though it's not yet quite clear how they fit together, but maybe once it's cleared up later we can look back and go "aw I see", or I'm being terribly optimistic and giving the writer WAY to much credit...

It's more then likely the later, but I'm a pessimistic optimist so while I expect the worst I hope for the best. :p

Well, I may have been unfair earlier, since the original a-chapter-every-other-month publishing rate may have influence my perception...
Yeah the really slow pace was a killer it also gave us time to analyze everything to death. At least back during strikers if an Ep was a bit slow you could hope the one next week would have something better, but with this if a Chapter is a bit slow you gotta wait MONTHS to see anything more. On the other hand it is kind of nice to have a constant flow of new stuff, even if it is pretty slow.

She doesn't have the right to object, frankly. It's her who got befriended this time, after all. :D
I hate that meme so I refuse to accept your reasoning, besides by this logic we should ship Nanoha/Quattro. :p


The way I understand the difference between AMF and Zero Effect is kinda like between turning solid matter into gas and annihilating it with anti-matter. In the first case, the matter is still there, it is just shapeless and unusable for most tasks requiring solid matter. In the second case, matter is simply gone in a flash of light. So basically, AMF turns magical energy into something that cannot be properly used (at least, without special training or abilities), while Zero Effect reacts with the magic energy to insta-turn it into entropy. ^^

Also of note is that AMF is a field (which one can shield oneself against, which is probably what Combat Cyborgs do to use their IS inside it), whereas Zero Effect describes the reaction between magic and anti-magic energies, which cancels both out. So basically, Zero Effect is harmless as long as you evade the anti-magic weapons like the Dividers. I think.
A decent theory... so money says the writers will come up with something dumb to discredit it and muddy the waters even more. :p Nanoha magibabble is seriously starting to get into the realms of Trek or Stargate technobabble.

We've had so many drawn out debates about this crap only to finally conclude that since the writers don't seem to have a clue either so us arguing about ti is totally futile. :p

[Koveras Alvane]

Hand shake? na man this calls for a *brofist* :p

I don't remember what this was about anymore, but *brofist*, anyway. ^^

Eh I didn't really get the idea Veyron was acutally going all out he certainly didn't seem very concerned. Beyond that he was still standing and totally unharmed at end while Thoma was laying on the floor bleeding... So yeah he went toe to toe for like 20 seconds and did not appreciable damage. That was also his first real fight, he might not even have known he'd gotten that powerful until he tapped his RAAAAGE and went ape shit on him. (for all the good it does, still more proof that hotblood is overrated.:p)

Well, OK, we'll see. Still, I've never liked this part of Gundams...

Hmm it is a matter of taste I'm not quite at my limit yet, though I'm getting their. At the moment I'm still giving them the benfit of the doubt cause I have a feeling some stuff is going to be revealed after this current fight ends. Also we have gotten bits and pieces though it's not yet quite clear how they fit together, but maybe once it's cleared up later we can look back and go "aw I see", or I'm being terribly optimistic and giving the writer WAY to much credit...

I just hope the final explanation is DAMN good for all we had to wait...

I hate that meme so I refuse to accept your reasoning, besides by this logic we should ship Nanoha/Quattro. :p

Befriending only works for the first person you ever befriend. :P Fate and Nanoha befriended each other first, so they stuck together. Einhart befriended Vivio and Vivio is all set to befriend her, too. Cypha is the first character who actually managed to befriend Signum, so... yeah. :D

A decent theory... so money says the writers will come up with something dumb to discredit it and muddy the waters even more. :p Nanoha magibabble is seriously starting to get into the realms of Trek or Stargate technobabble.

We've had so many drawn out debates about this crap only to finally conclude that since the writers don't seem to have a clue either so us arguing about ti is totally futile. :p

Tsuzuki should totally hire some fans to be the Lore Masters and keep the facts straight while he can work on the plots...

[Rising Dragon]

Befriending only works for the first person you ever befriend. :P Fate and Nanoha befriended each other first, so they stuck together. Einhart befriended Vivio and Vivio is all set to befriend her, too. Cypha is the first character who actually managed to befriend Signum, so... yeah. :D

If that's the case, Vita and Rein both should have an unrequited love for Zest, since he befriended the hell out of them.

[Nya~n]

Vita+Agito: Zest-sama! In death we join you!

[Koveras Alvane]

If that's the case, Vita and Rein both should have an unrequited love for Zest, since he befriended the hell out of them.

But Zest is male. :twitch:

[Rising Dragon]

But Zest is male. :twitch:

... and gender's supposed to mean something?

[RadiantBeam]

But Zest is male. :twitch:

All the more reason they should swoop him up, males are hard to come by in the MGLN universe. :p

[Koveras Alvane]

... and gender's supposed to mean something?

All the more reason they should swoop him up, males are hard to come by in the MGLN universe. :p

Nah, just kidding. :D It just seems that befriending additionally only functions between magical girls, with magical boys and men not included. ^^

[NorthernFallout]

And it's a real shame.

[Nya~n]

men? boys? what're they? i only know of boobs and swimsuit!BarrierJacket cameltoes in MSLN!

[Kaijo]

Nah, just kidding. :D It just seems that befriending additionally only functions between magical girls, with magical boys and men not included. ^^

You think so?

Yunno: "...and then once Chrono used his staff on me, breaking through all my protections, and then I just knew we'd always be close..."
Chrono: *sweatdrops* "Did you really have to tell them all that?"
Nanoha and Fate: *munching popcorn* "Tell us more..."

[Moczo]

If that's the case, Vita and Rein both should have an unrequited love for Zest, since he befriended the hell out of them.

Vita and Rein have an unrequited love for Zest, but he only has eyes for Signum, who was the first to befriend him, and she can't stop thinking about that dashing Cypha who hacked her open... it's like a soap opera, but with slightly more impalement and one of the people involved is dead.

So it's like a really good soap opera.

EDIT: Pageclaim for "As Midchilda Turns".

[RadiantBeam]

Vita and Rein have an unrequited love for Zest, but he only has eyes for Signum, who can't stop thinking about Cypha... it's like a soap opera, but with slightly more impalements and one of the people involved is dead.

So it's like a really good soap opera.

Then, in a twist of fate, Zest ends up landing both Signum and Cypha, while Vita and Agito realize what fools they've been and turn to each other for love and support, eventually becoming a couple.

*shot*

[prescience]

Then, in a twist of fate, Zest ends up landing both Signum and Cypha, while Vita and Agito realize what fools they've been and turn to each other for love and support, eventually becoming a couple.

*shot*

And meanwhile, Rein and Hayate commiserate over their respective unrequited feelings for Agito and Vita...

*divided*

[Koveras Alvane]

You think so?

Yunno: "...and then once Chrono used his staff on me, breaking through all my protections, and then I just knew we'd always be close..."
Chrono: *sweatdrops* "Did you really have to tell them all that?"
Nanoha and Fate: *munching popcorn* "Tell us more..."

OK, befriending only works for same-gender friendships. :D

And meanwhile, Rein and Hayate commiserate over their respective unrequited feelings for Agito and Vita...

*divided*

Then Shamal, feeling she was left out of the loop, goes yandere over both Signum and Hayate...

*ultimate fate classified*

[Tiresias]

OK, befriending only works for same-gender friendships. :D

Then Shamal, feeling she was left out of the loop, goes yandere over both Signum and Hayate...

*ultimate fate classified*

Shamal: "A dog is fine, too" :p

[RadiantBeam]

Shamal: "A dog is fine, too" :p

Zafira: A dog is not fine! :twitch:

[Koveras Alvane]

Zafira: A dog is not fine! :twitch:

Arf: *whack* You are a wolf, dammit, so keep it cool!

[Blank-Mage]

Zafira: "Right. Wolf. Cool." *Strikes badass pose.*

Vivio: "Zaffy!" *Glomp*

Zafira: "....Damn it."

[Loner]

An official crossover manga between Fate/Stay Night and Nanoha?!?

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fate_stay_night_x_magical_girl_lyrical_nanoha/

[Nanya01]

Huh... Why can't I search for it... Hmm...

[Loner]

Huh... Why can't I search for it... Hmm...

Try leaving out the "/" - their search engine may have problems realizing that's not a directory marker.

[Nanya01]

Try leaving out the "/" - their search engine may have problems realizing that's not a directory marker.

Not that, I search for "Nanoha" and it doesn't come up. I search for "Fate Stay Night" and it doesn't come up.

I already contacted a mod about it..

[Lord Pertinax]

It wasn't a good death in the battlefield. O__o She didn't destroy a couple of planets beforehand, so it wasn't even near her personal awesomeness level. Or have I missed something?..

If your blood is spilled, the you furfill your duty towards the blood good. If you win and reclaim the skull of your fallen enemy then it's even better.

Now, returning to the point, Force is not out yet?

[Koveras Alvane]

An official crossover manga between Fate/Stay Night and Nanoha?!?

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fate_stay_night_x_magical_girl_lyrical_nanoha/

Heh, that was fun. :heh: But not for people who dislike ViVid. :p Looks like the second chapter takes place during TOS, and Ilya is now stuck with Raising Heart. I have a feeling her magical activities just became a lot more destructive. :D

If your blood is spilled, the you furfill your duty towards the blood good. If you win and reclaim the skull of your fallen enemy then it's even better.

Oh well, I figured you might have a blood fetish. :heh:

Now, returning to the point, Force is not out yet?

Not that I know of...

[Bananoha]

y sew much off-topic postsNow, returning to the point, Force is not out yet?Ohhh, you'll prolly get your translated Force after the weekend.... e_eI might be able to get it out tonight depending on when I get the script, but I could also delay it more.

You're also welcome to grab people to scanlate it yourself. There was a time when two groups other than GiB were doing Force.

[dahak]

About the whole anti-magic thing, either the canon really does contradict each other or the translators are having troubles translating the magicbabbles on the extra materials. Is there any instance in all three animes that someone was rendered completely unable to use magic instead of just reduced efficiency? I mean, to the point that the magic level are zero?

In the Cradle after Vivio drops out of Sankt Kaisier Armour.

Nanoha and Hayate both lose their flight magics as well as Hayate/Rein unison and need Suberu to open the door.

[Rising Dragon]

In the Cradle after Vivio drops out of Sankt Kaisier Armour.

Nanoha and Hayate both lose their flight magics as well as Hayate/Rein unison and need Suberu to open the door.

Or rather the wall, in this case.

[Koveras Alvane]

In the Cradle after Vivio drops out of Sankt Kaisier Armour.

Nanoha and Hayate both lose their flight magics as well as Hayate/Rein unison and need Suberu to open the door.

Yet their Barrier Jackets (purely magical constructs, as far as anyone knows) were still on, and their Devices were not reverted to standby mode (which is, by definition, their least power-consuming form, meaning that they still had power to upkeep their active forms). :)

[Kaijo]

Yet their Barrier Jackets (purely magical constructs, as far as anyone knows) were still on, and their Devices were not reverted to standby mode (which is, by definition, their least power-consuming form, meaning that they still had power to upkeep their active forms). :)

Unless you're of the opinion that it only takes magic to form a barrier jacket, not maintain it. Same with the devices; only takes magic to make the switch, not maintain the form.

I believe someone mentioned that it's said somewhere that it takes magic to maintain them, but it wouldn't be the first fandom to have facts that contradict each other. The ship cuts magical links, the unison is canceled, and Subaru plainly says she's unable to gather *any* magic.

[00-Raiser]

You're also welcome to grab people to scanlate it yourself. There was a time when two groups other than GiB were doing Force.

Yeah, but they weren't as good as you :D

[FlameSparkZ]

Unless you're of the opinion that it only takes magic to form a barrier jacket, not maintain it. Same with the devices; only takes magic to make the switch, not maintain the form.
The devices and barrier jacket remained, but it's likely that the barriers and fields around them were completely nullified.

I believe someone mentioned that it's said somewhere that it takes magic to maintain them, but it wouldn't be the first fandom to have facts that contradict each other. The ship cuts magical links, the unison is canceled, and Subaru plainly says she's unable to gather *any* magic.
Don't know about maintaining them, but restoring them (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahou_shoujo_lyrical_nanoha_movie_1st_the_comics/c008/8.html) takes a lot of magic (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahou_shoujo_lyrical_nanoha_movie_1st_the_comics/c008/10.html), as mentioned recently in Movie 1st manga

Page Claim for a bounty on Cypha's head for seriously injuring Signum!

[Nanya01]

Whoo! Looks like the server problem for Mangafox finally got fixed.

[Kaijo]

The devices and barrier jacket remained, but it's likely that the barriers and fields around them were completely nullified.

Don't know about maintaining them, but restoring them (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahou_shoujo_lyrical_nanoha_movie_1st_the_comics/c008/8.html) takes a lot of magic (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/mahou_shoujo_lyrical_nanoha_movie_1st_the_comics/c008/10.html), as mentioned recently in Movie 1st manga

That was my thought. Unless someone can post the source for the "takes magic to maintain them" then I'm going with my explanation, which makes more sense.

[RadiantBeam]

An official crossover manga between Fate/Stay Night and Nanoha?!?

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fate_stay_night_x_magical_girl_lyrical_nanoha/

Isn't this rather old news? :heh: Or am I confusing it with some other F/SN crossover? I definitely remember that a crossover between the two was announced earlier.

[00-Raiser]

Isn't this rather old news? :heh: Or am I confusing it with some other F/SN crossover? I definitely remember that a crossover between the two was announced earlier.

Yeah, it's old news. Even them getting translated is also old news. So...

http://i49.tinypic.com/vhe2a1.gif

:heh:

[Blank-Mage]

Yeah, it's old news. Even them getting translated is also old news. So...

They seemed so happy, I wasn't going to say anything...

[RadiantBeam]

They seemed so happy, I wasn't going to say anything...

Though having them brought back up again reminded me that I never actually took the time to read through them; they look pretty short, so maybe I should check them out for giggles, if nothing else.

[Rising Dragon]

Hell I was under the impression that the crossover was a one-shot, so finding out it has another chapter was news to me.

[RadiantBeam]

Wasn't there also supposed to be a crossover between Vivid and Fate/Illya manga? I know it was definitely mentioned at some point, but I don't know if it was ever put up.

[Bananoha]

Trying to skim the wiki for you, Kajio. Can't seem to find anything specific on barrier jackets needing magic to stay on. Just stuff like worn when the device is starting up and how you don't need a device to wear one.Hell I was under the impression that the crossover was a one-shot, so finding out it has another chapter was news to me.Wasn't there also supposed to be a crossover between Vivid and Fate/Illya manga? I know it was definitely mentioned at some point, but I don't know if it was ever put up."Chapter One" = FSN crossover
"Chapter Two" = Prism Illya crossover

[Kaijo]

Trying to skim the wiki for you, Kajio. Can't seem to find anything specific on barrier jackets needing magic to stay on. Just stuff like worn when the device is starting up and how you don't need a device to wear

Yeah, I looked through it once myself, and didn't see anything. So until someone says otherwise, I'm not gonna believe that's how it works. Though I thought I did recall someone quoting a bit of an episode or sound stage or a manga, but I could be wrong.

[RadiantBeam]

"Chapter One" = FSN crossover
"Chapter Two" = Prism Illya crossover

Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the info, LVD.

I might check those chapters out tomorrow. I only have class in the morning and then no lab, so I'd have the time depending on how quickly I can finish studying.

[Tiresias]

Isn't this rather old news? :heh: Or am I confusing it with some other F/SN crossover? I definitely remember that a crossover between the two was announced earlier.

Damn, for a moment I thought there is Nanoha/Ilya chapter 2 :(. I guess both of them really are one-shot stories.

I like the crossover with Prisma Ilya more than the one with Fate/Stay Night. The artwork of the latter is so similar to Vivid that I can't shake the stigma I have from Vivid's (lack of) plot.

[Arkeus]

Spoiler Warning for Negima:

ok, i am not sure i am allowed to post that here, but it is quite lulz (http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/Mahou-Sensei-Negima/WhiteWings/291/18).

;-)

[00-Raiser]

I like the crossover with Prisma Ilya more than the one with Fate/Stay Night. The artwork of the latter is so similar to Vivid that I can't shake the stigma I have from Vivid's (lack of) plot.

'So similar' nothing, it's drawn by the same artist :heh:

[Moczo]

Damn, for a moment I thought there is Nanoha/Ilya chapter 2 :(. I guess both of them really are one-shot stories.

I like the crossover with Prisma Ilya more than the one with Fate/Stay Night. The artwork of the latter is so similar to Vivid that I can't shake the stigma I have from Vivid's (lack of) plot.

The original ads for the crossover did feature Vivio and Ilya together, as I recall... false advertising, or signs of more chapters to come?

Probably the former, sadly, but as a major Prisma Ilya fanboy, I can always hold out hope.


And as for the comparative quality of the crossovers... artwork aside, it's hard not to like the Prisma Ilya one more. It's actually a story, while the FSN one is only about five pages long and doesn't go anywhere. C'mon, people, you can't hint at an Archer/Yuuno team-up and then not do anything with it!

[Blank-Mage]

Spoiler Warning for Negima:

ok, i am not sure i am allowed to post that here, but it is quite lulz (http://www.mangatoshokan.com/read/Mahou-Sensei-Negima/WhiteWings/291/18).

Particularly funny in that he is literally sparking with demonic power.

He's learned from the best.

[Lord Pertinax]

Particularly funny in that he is literally sparking with demonic power.

He's learned from the best.

I want your advice, is that series worth reading?

[Blank-Mage]

I want your advice, is that series worth reading?

Short version? Yes. I will send you a PM of examples as to why so as not to offend the Mod Gods.

[Lord Pertinax]

Short version? Yes. I will send you a PM of examples as to why so as not to offend the Mod Gods.

Thanks.

On Force topic, I wonder how Hayate mama will get after knowing that one of her children is bitten to a pulp? It won't be a nice sight...

[Estavali]

Hmm, just read the Chinese raws, and I'm getting the impression that the real reason why Laevantein cracked and broke is actually to it striking something extremely tough with great strength, that something being Cypha's body.

We all know now that those afflicted with the Eclipse undergo changes to their bodies, transforming them into living weapons. This page here:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/Nothung/th_Force07_24.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/Nothung/?action=view&current=Force07_24.jpg)
points out that one of these changes is the toughening (enhancement, if you may) of the physical body. Since the Eclipse effect is essentially AMF at its peak, it should not have any effect on physical items, even if that item is a Knight's sword. This imho leaves us with the next possible explanation: hard hits harder. Admittably this may seem quite strange, since Signum has been whacking lots of stuff with her sword since her debut, from something hard like Bardiche to someone hard like Zest.

Then again, this might suggest that Cypha is now harder than her own swords.... :heh:

Another thing noticed from this chapter is how Cypha described her group. She said to Signum, that the Hucklebein will not ignore Thoma as he is now, for "afflicted with the same illness, bearing hatred towards this world, he is already our comrade". This suggest that the Hucklebein's violent nature might not be just a psychological effect of the Eclipse but may also be a result of very unpleasant experiences in their past lives (though this nonetheless does not excuse them from their misdoings). If this is true, we might be looking at a group not too unlike the good Doktor, except that while Scaglietti is motivated by unrestrained greed, the Hucklebeins may be fueled by wild hatred. With vary degrees for each member though imho, Al seems too relaxed to be someone filled with RAEG :heh:.

[Skane]

Thanks.

On Force topic, I wonder how Hayate mama will get after knowing that one of her children is bitten to a pulp? It won't be a nice sight...

Search & Destroy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bqPRLfVB0I#t=02m28s). ;)

:D

[Marsala]

Another thing noticed from this chapter is how Cypha described her group. She said to Signum, that the Hucklebein will not ignore Thoma as he is now, for "afflicted with the same illness, bearing hatred towards this world, he is already our comrade".

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the story is now going to go towards a Subaru vs. Thoma showdown.

[Nya~n]

Subaru: THOMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Thoma: SUBARUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

after which subaru dramatically grapples Thoma and self-destructs.

[Akiyoshi]

Signum-samaaaaaa....!! ToT

Well, i really wants to see the chapter but mangafox still hasn't have it, i already guessed this outcome, afterall they're the new Bad Guys with NEW weapons, about the injuries i don't think Signum will die that easily, in the past Vita has taken a LOT more damage(at least from what i can see in this pic http://i46.tinypic.com/2cyobbd.jpg ) and reacovers(at least the necessary) to continue the fight, my guess is that Signum will recover mid-to-last season and have a rematch with Cypha, my other guess is that maybe Fate will beat the everloving crap out of her, if the rematch occurs my other guess is that Signum probably finds another way to fight instead of getting a new weapon(maybe an Upgrade like Graf Eisen "Destruction Form")also, from what i've read, appears that Signum falls without using her best cards(i also agree with everyone's desire to see an Attack performed in unison with Laevatein in Bogenform).

Well, it looks like we won't be seeing the Blazin General for a long time, i like Subaru but i'm only waiting for Hayate to make the descicion of deploy Nanoha over the Huckebein! ....also for Vita to unleash her HAMMER FURY over them xD!

EDIT: I've already watched the RAW and DAMN! well, i miss that last impalement, still i don't think she's gonna die, it's a good opportunity to grow her more as a character(besides ocasionally appearences to kick someone's ass) maybe she finally ask Agito over their promise that if she left from the path of an honorable warrior she ask personally Agito to kill her with her flame"

[00-Raiser]

points out that one of these changes is the toughening (enhancement, if you may) of the physical body.

So Eclipse gives you hierro?! *Shot*

Well that coinsides with Thoma's ability to carry Lily and not get tired. It's not impervious, though, obviously as Signum managed to chop Cypha's arm off. However, perhaps it gets even tougher after resurrección Reacting :heh:

[spawnofthejudge]

EDIT: I've already watched the RAWYou scared me; for a second I thought you were talking about an animated version :heh:

[PhoenixFlare]

So Eclipse gives you hierro?! *Shot*

Well that coinsides with Thoma's ability to carry Lily and not get tired. It's not impervious, though, obviously as Signum managed to chop Cypha's arm off. However, perhaps it gets even tougher after resurrección Reacting :heh:

I don't see a relation between those two. The enhancement most probably makes the body more resistant to attacks (i.e., hardening of physical body), not giving them extra stamina (i.e., better cardiovascular system, etc.). Thoma's probably just really ... strong (and besides, he can't lose face by dumping a fair lady on the ground, he'll be totally ashamed of himself - with gleeful remarks from his device and Isis, no less! :3).

@Estavali: Is it possible that instead of hitting a hard physical body (which I have problem dealing with from the logical point of view - you know how I bristle at all these biological deviations <.<), Laevatein was in fact broken by an invisible forcefield emitted all around Cyphia's body (similar to a Barrier Jacket's field)?

[Moczo]

Another thing noticed from this chapter is how Cypha described her group. She said to Signum, that the Hucklebein will not ignore Thoma as he is now, for "afflicted with the same illness, bearing hatred towards this world, he is already our comrade".

I wonder how she's going to react to what we know already: that what he hates most about this world is her and all her friends? I mean, all indications we've seen suggest the major slant of his recent slide into madness is "Hey, pal... wouldn't you like to slaughter all those Huckebein jackasses? C'mon, forget about kindness and moving on, they killed your whole village! Let's nail 'em!"



I don't see a relation between those two. The enhancement most probably makes the body more resistant to attacks (i.e., hardening of physical body), not giving them extra stamina (i.e., better cardiovascular system, etc.). Thoma's probably just really ... strong (and besides, he can't lose face by dumping a fair lady on the ground, he'll be totally ashamed of himself - with gleeful remarks from his device and Isis, no less! :3).

@Estavali: Is it possible that instead of hitting a hard physical body (which I have problem dealing with from the logical point of view - you know how I bristle at all these biological deviations <.<), Laevatein was in fact broken by an invisible forcefield emitted all around Cyphia's body (similar to a Barrier Jacket's field)?

Fortis can crush a soda can down to a solid, marble-sized ball of metal with his bare hands. Cypha can grow limbs back in the space of seconds. Compared to some of the other stuff these people have pulled off, I don't have a hard time accepting 'really hard skin'.

And I'd have to look up the exact quote, but right after Signum wailed on her last chapter, didn't Cypha say something along the lines of 'If my body was still flesh and blood, I would be dead'? That suggests that some actual change to the structure of her body is, if not the only thing, at least a major factor in how she's able to break swords with her elbow. Though judging by Thoma's clothes changing, it does look like Dividers provide a barrier jacket of some kind. So maybe a combination thing?


So Eclipse gives you hierro?! *Shot*

Well that coinsides with Thoma's ability to carry Lily and not get tired. It's not impervious, though, obviously as Signum managed to chop Cypha's arm off. However, perhaps it gets even tougher after resurrección Reacting :heh:

Upcoming reveal: the villain is actually one of the nameless nuns that Veyron killed, who secretly faked her death using her previously unrevealed power of Complete Hypnosis. *shot twice and thrown off a cliff*

[Nya~n]

Upcoming reveal: the villain is actually one of the nameless nuns that Veyron killed, who secretly faked her death using her previously unrevealed power of Complete Hypnosis. *shot twice and thrown off a cliff*

Agatha called. She wants a word.

[PhoenixFlare]

Fortis can crush a soda can down to a solid, marble-sized ball of metal with his bare hands. Cypha can grow limbs back in the space of seconds. Compared to some of the other stuff these people have pulled off, I don't have a hard time accepting 'really hard skin'.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I know there are weirder things out there than 'really hard skin' (even some of my OCs can do those, but not very easily), but I usually try to find alternative explanations - which are hopefully easier to understand and accept - before I suspend disbelief.

Herculean strength and high-speed regeneration are both generally reasonable in fiction, but steel/titanium/adamantium/orichalcon/random-hard-material skin usually goes past my book. Let's face it: to make your bare skin able to break steel swords, you'll very likely want your skin to be some really rigid and tough material - which is extremely unfriendly to your cells, I imagine even for those Eclipse-enhanced ones - and my life science background simply refuses to accept this explanation on the spur of the moment.

Of course, if there's no other reason for this, I can only accept (grudgingly), but in the interest of general, logical fiction, I will most probably not use this as a base to which further "steel skin" powers are introduced. When Tsuzuki endorses this as canon, I expect many to follow suit when they want to use similar powers, and I will usually end up at the losing side of the debate simply because "canon" says it can be done.

And I'd have to look up the exact quote, but right after Signum wailed on her last chapter, didn't Cypha say something along the lines of 'If my body was still flesh and blood, I would be dead'? That suggests that some actual change to the structure of her body is, if not the only thing, at least a major factor in how she's able to break swords with her elbow. Though judging by Thoma's clothes changing, it does look like Dividers provide a barrier jacket of some kind. So maybe a combination thing?

I'm hoping it might be a field effect of some kind, even if not generated directly by the jacket, which is more palatable to my taste. It can even be a body-fitting aura or something, as long as they don't go "my skin is harder than steel".

And yes, according to Estavali,

Eclipse alters some physical properties of the body.

Upcoming reveal: the villain is actually one of the nameless nuns that Veyron killed, who secretly faked her death using her previously unrevealed power of Complete Hypnosis. *shot twice and thrown off a cliff*

... is that who I think it is? :twitch:

*imagines a female Aizen Sousuke*

The image is too much to bear! :eyespin:

[Moczo]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I know there are weirder things out there than 'really hard skin' (even some of my OCs can do those, but not very easily), but I usually try to find alternative explanations - which are hopefully easier to understand and accept - before I suspend disbelief.

Herculean strength and high-speed regeneration are both generally reasonable in fiction, but steel/titanium/adamantium/orichalcon/random-hard-material skin usually goes past my book. Let's face it: to make your bare skin able to break steel swords, you'll very likely want your skin to be some really rigid and tough material - which is extremely unfriendly to your cells, I imagine even for those Eclipse-enhanced ones - and my life science background simply refuses to accept this explanation on the spur of the moment.


Ah, nothing can throw a wrench in a story like having more real-world knowledge of the subject matter than the author does, eh? It's like an art historian reading The DaVinci Code.

Luckily, having no science background of my own worth mentioning, I am able to cheerfully accept Iron Skin because I have no knowledge of what consequences it would have for the human body. Ignorance really is bliss!

... is that who I think it is? :twitch:

*imagines a female Aizen Sousuke*

The image is too much to bear! :eyespin:

FemAizen knew you would react that way. In fact, she planned it from the very beginning.

[PhoenixFlare]

Ah, nothing can throw a wrench in a story like having more real-world knowledge of the subject matter than the author does, eh? It's like an art historian reading The DaVinci Code.

Luckily, having no science background of my own worth mentioning, I am able to cheerfully accept Iron Skin because I have no knowledge of what consequences it would have for the human body. Ignorance really is bliss!

Ignorance is bliss, indeed. :heh:

Technically, I'm able to suspend a large amount of disbelief as long as the authors go along a recognizable root in making their technology viable because I understand that there's no way our Earthling science and gadgets would be sufficient in their works.

FemAizen knew you would react that way. In fact, she planned it from the very beginning.

Alas, only someone who's not exposed to hisher powers can help me.

Anyone here isn't under her spell?

*everyone falls silent*

Tasukete! :eyespin:

[Kaijo]

This gives me an excuse to post this!

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060605112731/uncyclopedia/images/b/be/God_kills_catgirl.gif

[Koveras Alvane]

Another thing noticed from this chapter is how Cypha described her group. She said to Signum, that the Hucklebein will not ignore Thoma as he is now, for "afflicted with the same illness, bearing hatred towards this world, he is already our comrade". This suggest that the Hucklebein's violent nature might not be just a psychological effect of the Eclipse but may also be a result of very unpleasant experiences in their past lives (though this nonetheless does not excuse them from their misdoings). If this is true, we might be looking at a group not too unlike the good Doktor, except that while Scaglietti is motivated by unrestrained greed, the Hucklebeins may be fueled by wild hatred. With vary degrees for each member though imho, Al seems too relaxed to be someone filled with RAEG :heh:.

So they are like Orochi from Kannamiko, then? Even the number fits now... Thoma = Souma, anyone? ...and "Karen" is obviously Isis before the memory wipe. O__O

On another note, Wrath is a deadly sin just like Greed... Another SDS-themed villain line-up? ^^

Upcoming reveal: the villain is actually one of the nameless nuns that Veyron killed, who secretly faked her death using her previously unrevealed power of Complete Hypnosis. *shot twice and thrown off a cliff*

Actually, I won't be surprised if it turned out the "nuns" were actually renegade Church Knights conspiring with the staff of the Lily Research Facility (we still don't know for sure who those were, do we?), and they planned to call for reinforcements, so Veyron stopped them.

[FlameSparkZ]

So they are like Orochi from Kannamiko, then? Even the number fits now... Thoma = Souma, anyone? ...and "Karen" is obviously Isis before the memory wipe. O__O

On another note, Wrath is a deadly sin just like Greed... Another SDS-themed villain line-up? ^^
So Al (whatever her name is...) is Gluttony? :heh:

[Lord Pertinax]

Search & Destroy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bqPRLfVB0I#t=02m28s). ;)

:D

Yes something exactly like that.

[Kikaifan]

IMO whatever destroyed Laevatein has to be an active effect. The last and only time a weapon broke from hitting something hard in Nanoha, that thing was the reactor shielding of the most powerful warship ever constructed, and said weapon was battering itself against it with a rocket assist.

And at a more basic level, Laevatein was still able to cut through Cypha's arm. Signum has hit things with Laevatein it didn't actually cut through, ergo they were stronger and the stresses on Laevatein were greater, but you didn't see any meaningful damage.

[itanshi1]

Well, a crack is meaningful damage to a sword. True swords shatter more than get clean cut. Otherwise, are we assuming she reinforced the weapon in any meaningful (less) way?

[Kikaifan]

I meant Laevatein showed no meaningful damage when it hit things that proved more resilient than Cypha's arm.

It did show meaningful damage from hitting Cypha's arm, but in light of the above I don't see how that could be attributed to the hardness of Cypha's arm.

[Koveras Alvane]

IMO whatever destroyed Laevatein has to be an active effect. The last and only time a weapon broke from hitting something hard in Nanoha, that thing was the reactor shielding of the most powerful warship ever constructed, and said weapon was battering itself against it with a rocket assist.

Objection! (http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3966137)

[Kikaifan]

Bardiche is a pretty bad example since it was cut with a spell assist.

Zest's spear would have been better but it still took the blow edge-on, and Laevatein wasn't damaged at all.

By contrast, Graf Eisen (and Laevatein in the scenario people are proposing) were destroyed simply by the reflected force of their impact against a sufficiently durable object.

[Nanya01]

Bardiche is a pretty bad example since it was cut with a spell assist.

Zest's spear would have been better but it still took the blow edge-on, and Laevatein wasn't damaged at all.

By contrast, Graf Eisen (and Laevatein in the scenario people are proposing) were destroyed simply by the reflected force of their impact against a sufficiently durable object.

What about Raising Heart? it was pretty brutalized by Graf Eisen in A's.

[Kikaifan]

As with Zest's spear it got hit by the business end of another weapon, which wasn't damaged in return.

We see weapons destroyed in that matter occasionally, but Graf Eisein in the Cradle is the only example of the hardness of an object proving sufficient to destroy a weapon used against it.

[dahak]

IMO whatever destroyed Laevatein has to be an active effect. The last and only time a weapon broke from hitting something hard in Nanoha, that thing was the reactor shielding of the most powerful warship ever constructed, and said weapon was battering itself against it with a rocket assist.


Graf Eisen also broke on contact with Zest's spear. Bardiche got chopped in half. Raising Heart came off worse against Graf Eisen. Sette's Boomerang Blades got shattered on impact with sonic drive Bardiche.

Stuff breaks occasionally.

[Kikaifan]

Graf Eisen also broke on contact with Zest's spear. Bardiche got chopped in half. Raising Heart came off worse against Graf Eisen. Sette's Boomerang Blades got shattered on impact with sonic drive Bardiche.

Stuff breaks occasionally.

When it gets hit by another weapon made to break it. The Cradle is the only example of the weapon battering itself to pieces against a harder object.

Weapon-on-weapon breaks in Nanoha are onesided. In none of the examples you or anyone else mentioned has the weapon doing the breaking suffered the slightest bit of damage, even though the weapon it is striking should be of similar hardness.

[Akiyoshi]

I also noted something suspicious that maybe will be clarified when the translation of Chapter 007 going to be released. Near the end of the fight with Cypha, Signum perform some sort of multiple "fireball" based attack that also De-unison her, then we all know what that follows, maybe it's true that she knows that defeat was unevitable and want to save Agito, or she was trying to do something else? it just bugs me.

[00-Raiser]

Could be they open get'ed and Agito launched the fire balls while Signum charged in. They probably didn't know the shots would be blocked so easily.

[Estavali]

I also noted something suspicious that maybe will be clarified when the translation of Chapter 007 going to be released. Near the end of the fight with Cypha, Signum perform some sort of multiple "fireball" based attack that also De-unison her, then we all know what that follows, maybe it's true that she knows that defeat was unevitable and want to save Agito, or she was trying to do something else? it just bugs me.

What happened was that Signum wanted to nab Cypha and Thoma at the same time and asked Agito to De-unison and handle the kids while she dealt with Cypha. The fireballs were fired by Agito to buy them some time.

Of course, as what followed, things didn't go as planned >_<

[FlameSparkZ]

What happened was that Signum wanted to nab Cypha and Thoma at the same time and asked Agito to De-unison and handle the kids while she dealt with Cypha. The fireballs were fired by Agito to buy them some time.

Of course, as what followed, things didn't go as planned >_<

Actually...
Agito left two spells with Signum before she left.
Those spells were, fire balls on the left hand and a capture ring (bind?) on the right hand.
Though, it seems she didn't use the right hand's spell...

[Koveras Alvane]

This reminds me. Last time someone got worfed on Nanoha (Nove in ViVid), she made sure her attacker didn't make far. I wonder if Signum had something prepared in her sleeve, too...

[Lord Pertinax]

This reminds me. Last time someone got worfed on Nanoha (Nove in ViVid), she made sure her attacker didn't make far. I wonder if Signum had something prepared in her sleeve, too...

That'll be nice. The problem is that there are 2 enemies, not just one.