Nanoha Manga Discussion [Archive] - Page 57

Akiyoshi

2010-11-09, 02:44

Fate just 1shotted her then using experience. What Fate may of been lacking some (thanks to Precia) during the final battle, was stamina. Aside from the whippings and injuries from her Jewel Seed search, Arf did say she was not eating much at all (malnourished)

Of course, Tsuzuki probably wasn't thinking of this reasoning at all when he directed that final battle.

If memory doesen't betray me there's also the fact that exaclty previous to the final battle Fate try to seal all the remainen Jewel Seeds all by herself concentrating all of her magic, that sure put a lot of strain on her right before facing Nanoha.

EDIT: Page claimed for the 2nd movie and the return of the demonic sword (http://forums.animesuki.com/group.php?groupid=383).

Scarletknive

2010-11-09, 05:44

Is it me or that multiple defenser looks like some SRW OG saga Lord Of Elemental Final boss(Ruozor)(Hyper Sonic wave)?(Look up page 17...guess the next page says defenser failed to defend TT)

Akiyoshi

2010-11-09, 11:16

One of the things surprises me the most is that the MOVIE manga's Nanoha have already used Recovery and Defenser, both are Fate's designed spells on the original continuity.

Kaijo

2010-11-09, 11:54

If memory doesen't betray me there's also the fact that exaclty previous to the final battle Fate try to seal all the remainen Jewel Seeds all by herself concentrating all of her magic, that sure put a lot of strain on her right before facing Nanoha.

Nanoha gave her a recharge, and we've seen that one can pretty much be rested and recovered after a night of rest. Fate was in pretty much a very good condition for the fight with Nanoha, and we don't have to invent superficial evidence-lacking reasons for why she lost. As the movie manga made clear, Nanoha clearly knew she couldn't match on skill, and so went for tactics, planning the battle out. She deliberately wore Fate down, forcing both to expend most of their magic, so she could SLB.

Demi.

2010-11-09, 11:58

Nanoha gave her a recharge, and we've seen that one can pretty much be rested and recovered after a night of rest. Fate was in pretty much a very good condition for the fight with Nanoha, and we don't have to invent superficial evidence-lacking reasons for why she lost. As the movie manga made clear, Nanoha clearly knew she couldn't match on skill, and so went for tactics, planning the battle out. She deliberately wore Fate down, forcing both to expend most of their magic, so she could SLB.

After Nanoha recharged Fate and she recovered the seeds, Precia blasted Fate with her ship and more whipping ensued. What Tsuzuki has in mind is what goes, but to say Fate was in great condition clearly can't be the case. Anyone with that lifestyle wouldn't be in great shape, tbh.

Not that Fate would of won even if she was in top shape.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-09, 12:27

Anyone with that lifestyle wouldn't be in great shape, tbh.

In Fate's defense we can say that she have a strong body by being an enhaced artificial human(and also the result of Linith's effective training), for someone that is "not in good shape" she's pretty damn fast and powerfull.

On a side note, i've finally finished to read BetrayerS first(and only at the moment) chapter and even if the plot have some inconsistences(like afirming that ALL magic is non-lethal, these guys must go to ask Zest about the topic xDU) i find it still more enjoyable than FORCE, also Subaru is freakin awesome here("Captain! it's time to cool your head a bit!"). Curiously i find Signum and Agito's first appearance pretty similar to their second appearance in FORCE(where they are following Tohma's trail) the pose, the talk and even Signum's longcoat more or less mirrors her sheltercoat. Probably a Shout Out to BetrayerS?

Demi.

2010-11-09, 12:37

I wasn't implying Fate's out of shape, I was implying what she's been through has taken a toll on her. In A's for instance, she's in "great shape." What she needed was some good ol'e R&R.

Though was it ever mentioned anywhere that Fate's body is stronger than normal compared to "normal" mages. I know her defenses are lower than most...

Akiyoshi

2010-11-09, 12:45

I agree with Kaijo in that Fate's physical condition wasn't a descicive factor in her defeat she still can outfight Nanoha and is the principal reason of why the little Takamachi plan her moves so carefully(the littlest of mistakes can make her end being roasted/sliced by Fate), but the first season and this manga put much emphasis on Fate's mental condition, on the orignal final battle of S1 Fate fights Nanoha while struggling between believe in her or pursue desperately her mother's approval, at the beginning of A's we saw what a determined and focused Fate can do by almost defeating Vita even withouth the cartridge system. So yeah i'm appealed to think that Nanoha will have a much harder time fighting a mentally stable Fate.

Kikaifan

2010-11-09, 15:14

Nanoha gave her a recharge, and we've seen that one can pretty much be rested and recovered after a night of rest. Fate was in pretty much a very good condition for the fight with Nanoha, and we don't have to invent superficial evidence-lacking reasons for why she lost. As the movie manga made clear, Nanoha clearly knew she couldn't match on skill, and so went for tactics, planning the battle out. She deliberately wore Fate down, forcing both to expend most of their magic, so she could SLB.

Saying you can recover from constant exertion and physical abuse with one night's rest is ludicrous. There's nothing superficial about losing because you go into a fight in crap physical and mental condition.

Kaijo

2010-11-10, 10:12

Saying you can recover from constant exertion and physical abuse with one night's rest is ludicrous. There's nothing superficial about losing because you go into a fight in crap physical and mental condition.

Perhaps, but we have no evidence Fate was in "crap" physical condition. She seemed to be as good as she always was, in previous encounters. And what I said was that one can recover from magic exertion with a good night's sleep; I didn't say anything about other physical or mental effects.

As far as mental goes, even despite the fact that Fate was suddenly pulling up memories of Precia calling her Alicia, she still fought with all her strength because her mother's love as on the line. Regardless of what she's gone through, that's a fairly powerful motivator, especially for one of Fate's mental state.

00-Raiser

2010-11-10, 10:49

Haven't really been following the conversation, (:heh:) but you guys are talking about why Fate lost to Nanoha, right?

Putting aside Nanoha's main character status, Fate simply underestimated her and how much Nanoha has grown in such a short time. Fate let her guard down too when she was sure that her attacks had finished Nanoha off, but of course that wasn't the case.

Also Fate, being a formally trained mage, just didn't expect some of Nanoha's more creative and unorthodox techniques. Her pride also got the best of her at times too, particularly when she went "If she survived it I can too!"

Keroko

2010-11-10, 12:12

If we're going to be talking handicaps, it'd be only fair that we don't forget Nanoha was a complete rookie when it came to magic back then. Unexpected growth or no.

Demi.

2010-11-10, 12:48

It's not about handicaps, it's just silly to assume Fate's circumstances played no role in her loss. Albeit, she was fated to lose since she's not the main protagonist and it was the final battle...but still. It puts some depth to her loss rather than the only factor in Fate's loss was Nanoha becoming a tactical genius within the span of a few weeks. Fighting with desperation makes you do things you wouldn't normally do...Often times stupid things. She was a lot more calculating and composed while fighting Vita and Signum and it reaped her far better results. Yes, she lost her first battle with Signum, although Signum did not leave unscathed, and Signum overpowered her with her upgraded device.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-10, 13:33

She was a lot more calculating and composed while fighting Vita and Signum and it reaped her far better results. Yes, she lost her first battle with Signum, although Signum did not leave unscathed, and Signum overpowered her with her upgraded device.

I don't take so seriously her matches against Signum, well yeah Fate is outstandishingly skilled even Signum recogninzes it, and their second match proves that, now on the third match signum allow herself to be more cautious and less reatrained than the past few brawl where she goes totally "we're the Belkan knights, you're good but still no match for us, surrender", and the result is that she avoids the classic villain destiny of being defeated by the hero's new upgrade, the we learn that the wokenritter are trying to minimize damage and casualities as much as posible and confirmed on the sound stages where Signum the majority of her rematches against Fate(still i'm pretty dubous that Vita was containing herself when she curbstomps Nanoha in A's Ep. 1, she completely looses composture after the Bunny Hat Incident). Still is very impressive that Fate was able to hold her own against the two strongest Wolkenritters without any upgrade, even if it's for a short time.

00-Raiser

2010-11-10, 14:04

Keroko

2010-11-10, 14:23

*looks back at every powerlevel discussion since... well... ever*

Got that right. Anyone up for another round of why Signum didn't really lose against Cypha?

Demi.

2010-11-10, 14:24

I don't take so seriously her matches against Signum, well yeah Fate is outstandishingly skilled even Signum recogninzes it, and their second match proves that, now on the third match signum allow herself to be more cautious and less reatrained than the past few brawl where she goes totally "we're the Belkan knights, you're good but still no match for us, surrender", and the result is that she avoids the classic villain destiny of being defeated by the hero's new upgrade, the we learn that the wokenritter are trying to minimize damage and casualities as much as posible and confirmed on the sound stages where Signum the majority of her rematches against Fate(still i'm pretty dubous that Vita was containing herself when she curbstomps Nanoha in A's Ep. 1, she completely looses composture after the Bunny Hat Incident). Still is very impressive that Fate was able to hold her own against the two strongest Wolkenritters without any upgrade, even if it's for a short time.

Okay, Signum wasn't playing "fight to kill" however, she wasn't playing footsies with Fate, either. Fate took a pretty hard blow from Signum during their first fight. And just because Signum had no intention of killing Fate, doesn't mean she was obligated to get hit by Fate. Whether she didn't take Fate serious enough, or she was caught completely off guard, Fate still did some damage to her before her cartridge upgrade. It's clear Signum is stronger than Fate as a whole considering she can match up to StrikerS Nanoha, but Fate being stronger than Signum wasn't my point. Fate just had that determined and confident look, which was not present during the final fight of S1

Discussions like these really go nowhere. People will always think up some reason or another as to why their favourite character didn't win and insist that if it weren't for those reasons, they would have won. There's nothing more stubborn than a fanboy

No, I accept Fate was going to lose either way, but I think it's ridiculous that people can disregard Fate's mental and physical condition and say it had no negative affect on her during their final battle.

Rising Dragon

2010-11-10, 14:28

*looks back at every powerlevel discussion since... well... ever*

Got that right. Anyone up for another round of why Signum didn't really lose against Cypha?

Please don't tempt fate like that.

No, I accept Fate was going to lose either way, but I think it's ridiculous that people can disregard Fate's mental and physical condition and say it had no negative affect on her during their final battle.

What most of us are saying is while that likely did contribute to her loss, the writer likely wasn't thinking of it when Nanoha and Fate had their final showdown.

Nanya01

2010-11-10, 14:28

Got that right. Anyone up for another round of why Signum didn't really lose against Cypha?

Because Signum didn't have the proper equipment and found herself in the same place she put Fate in back during A's?

Demi.

2010-11-10, 14:43

What most of us are saying is while that likely did contribute to her loss, the writer likely wasn't thinking of it when Nanoha and Fate had their final showdown.

Have we ever been sure of what Tsuzuki was thinking?

Nanya01

2010-11-10, 14:44

Have we ever been sure of what Tsuzuki was thinking?

More sure than anyone about Anno during Evangelion's first run.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-10, 14:45

Because Signum didn't have the proper equipment and found herself in the same place she put Fate in back during A's?

Except for the fact that Fate don't get a horrible open cavity on her utterus and don't spend the rest of A's on a hospital bed.

00-Raiser

2010-11-10, 15:05

Have we ever been sure of what Tsuzuki was thinking?

Oh! Oh! I know! I know!

$$$

Akiyoshi

2010-11-10, 15:13

Oh! Oh! I know! I know!

$$$

Sad but true T-T

Kikaifan

2010-11-10, 16:07

Discussions like these really go nowhere. People will always think up some reason or another as to why their favourite character didn't win and insist that if it weren't for those reasons, they would have won. There's nothing more stubborn than a fanboy :heh:

I don't particularly like Fate or Nanoha better.

Now if you want me to go into the evidence that the Wolkenritter were just messing around during A's...

mielipuoli

2010-11-10, 16:39

Seeing as how Hayate said no killing, I imagine they were jobbing it to not break their master's heart.

Nanya01

2010-11-10, 16:43

Seeing as how Hayate said no killing, I imagine they were jobbing it to not break their master's heart.

Um, no...

Hayate said "no grabbing Linker Cores".

The Wolkenritter decided "no killing" on their own.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-10, 17:01

Um, no...

Hayate said "no grabbing Linker Cores".

The Wolkenritter decided "no killing" on their own.

It's funny in hindsight because it was Vita the one who proposes the "no killing" clause and we all know that she's the most vicious during battle xDU.

Keroko

2010-11-10, 17:12

Goes to show how much she cares about Hayate.

And they did say the knights held back. Which, to me, sounds like a handwave to explain how little kids held their own against veteran warriors with centuries of experience.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-10, 17:19

And they did say the knights held back. Which, to me, sounds like a handwave to explain how little kids held their own against veteran warriors with centuries of experience.

That reminds me when Signum punches Teana with enough force to sent her flying a couple of feets the she adds "Don't worry, i held back", then, out of curiosity i rewatched Signum's fights with Fate and seeing her kicking Fate out of the sky and also giving blows hard enough to push her back even when blocking with Bardiche.

Holding back, indeed xDU.

Demi.

2010-11-10, 18:27

That was before the cartride upgrade, though. It was shown as an even fight after that.

00-Raiser

2010-11-10, 19:37

That doesn't mean she stopped holding back. It means she held back less :heh:

Akiyoshi

2010-11-10, 19:37

That was before the cartride upgrade, though. It was shown as an even fight after that.

Nope, even after the upgrade, in fact it was one of the impressive blows during their encounter on the desert planet, Signum deal a powerfull blow on Fate that she block with Bardiche but is pushed back by the force of the impact(complete with dramatic dash on the sand).

Demi.

2010-11-10, 19:41

Akiyoshi

2010-11-10, 19:53

Though there was that one time where someone asked Signum who was the strongest (Between the three aces and her, if I recall correctly), and she said something like "It depends on the circumstances since it could change on any given day" so unless Signum was being modest, it's not like she thinks she has much of an edge herself.

Well, Signum doesn't the type of warrior who gloats about her abilities all over the place ...unlike certain other scrappy, dual-wielder, dark-skinned blonde swordswoman. :uhoh:

Demi.

2010-11-10, 19:58

unlike certain other scrappy dual-wielder dark-skinned blonde swordswoman.

Not ringing any bells. Must be someone from Force.

Justin_Brett

2010-11-10, 20:00

Who cannot beat people on her own skill.

Dangit, ninja'd.

00-Raiser

2010-11-10, 20:11

Ingrained abilities count toward's a person's skill set.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-10, 20:16

To be fair Signum isn't all modesty, she have her moments of hammyness from tiem to time, for example:

"You have pretty good senses for a mage, but against a Belkan-type knight it's not enough..."

or...

"Laevatein, raise my armour"

and who can forget this precious gem:

Laevatein: Please choose your action(i can't remeber how to write what he says in german xDU).

Signum: Laevatein, did your master ever be the type of knight that runs off from a fight?

Laevatein: NAHG!

So, Signum is not exactly the most modest person you can find but i think that she's more prideful rather than gloating. Still, she apparently is less hammy or prideful by the time of StrikerS(at least i didn't see anouncing her belkaness to Zest and there's no need to introducing to a bunch of mecha mooks anyway xDU).

Kikaifan

2010-11-10, 20:22

I think the word for Signum is 'aloof'. She kind of holds herself above everyone in a distant way rather than bragging a lot.

Though there was that thing with Fate:

F: "I'll stop using honorifics when I win at least half our matches."

S: "Then I'll be waiting forever for the impossible."

Justin_Brett

2010-11-10, 20:22

Ingrained abilities count toward's a person's skill set.

Alright, no actual talent, then.

00-Raiser

2010-11-10, 20:40

Rising Dragon

2010-11-10, 20:50

Nanoha: Something seems... off.

Fate: Its because you and I aren't the ones causing everyone to rage this time.

Justin_Brett

2010-11-10, 21:06

Well, it makes sense: she wouldn't have much of an opportunity to increase her skill just killing random people, and the average TSAB red shirt couldn't be a very useful opponent in that regard.

Hell, the Hucks in general kinda lack subtlety.

Kikaifan

2010-11-10, 21:06

It's kind of how like Reinforce is super slow and stops every attack to emo and stand around staring at nothing but she can still crush anyone in the series.

Sometimes power just matters more than refined technique or even basic combat principles.

00-Raiser

2010-11-10, 21:33

Nanya01

2010-11-10, 21:36

Sometimes power just matters more than refined technique or even basic combat principles.

You mean like how Signum decided to show off by tanking Fate's attacks in A's?

Justin_Brett

2010-11-10, 21:58

Well, you can't deny that Cypha has enough skill to aim and throw her blade into Signum's gut from quite a distance away :heh:

EDIT: Oh, can't forget how she shot down Agito, a super tiny target, from long range as well. With one eye.

That beam was pretty big.

[/excuses]

On another note, the raw for Vivid 18 is out, at the appropriate imageboard. It's pretty much a talking chapter, though it does have Rio and Corona meeting gun-kata girl, Einhart meeting Zafira's pupil, and Vivid meeting church girl.

Her weapon is...surprising. It shouldn't be, though, at this point.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-11, 00:31

Hm...

You hear that Signum? Your skills are so worthless you got nearly killed by a person with absolutely no talent at all! You best hang up your sword for good and leave the fighting to everyone else.

:p

that's my line of tought around a month ago during my second(or third) crisis period, i even thinked that the best destiny for Signum is to allow her to die preserving what little dignity Cypha has left, instead of living and fulfill her new pitiful destiny as cannon fooder.

Well, you can't deny that Cypha has enough skill to aim and throw her blade into Signum's gut from quite a distance away :heh:

EDIT: Oh, can't forget how she shot down Agito, a super tiny target, from long range as well. With one eye.

1.- We don't know, maybe her Divider also has auto aim functions(that thing can do everything from negating magic to organizing your e-mail to baking waffles).

2.- It will be funny that Cypha is one eyed when it's suppossed that the Eclipse infected have super regeneration powers, or Cypha was one-eyed before the infection, or the Eyepatch serves another purpouse(an aim, assiting device? a scouter? ...if it's the latter i hope for a "it's over 9000! upon Signum's return xD).

Kikaifan

2010-11-11, 00:51

You mean like how Signum decided to show off by tanking Fate's attacks in A's?

Yeah basically. She had a strong enough barrier to just laugh off Fate's attack so she did.

Of course she's also more skilled than Fate so Fate was extra screwed in that fight.

Rising Dragon

2010-11-11, 00:52

Yeah basically. She had a strong enough barrier to just laugh off Fate's attack so she did.

Of course she's also more skilled than Fate so Fate was extra screwed in that fight.

And that's why Fate went for the boob when she finally got her chance. =X

Kikaifan

2010-11-11, 00:54

I'd go for that boob too. Just sayin'.

Rising Dragon

2010-11-11, 00:55

Yes, but likely with an entirely different goal in mind.

Nanya01

2010-11-11, 00:58

Yeah basically. She had a strong enough barrier to just laugh off Fate's attack so she did.

Of course she's also more skilled than Fate so Fate was extra screwed in that fight.

It's my opinion that Cypha's not unskilled.

It's just that Signum's FAR more skilled than she is.

Cypha KNOWS how to use blades and how to fight someone one-on-one.

Cypha basically got to a certain level of skill, combined with the Eclipse, means that she really had no desire nor need to get any better in skill.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-11, 01:04

Cypha basically got to a certain level of skill, combined with the Eclipse, means that she really had no desire nor need to get any better in skill.

I think is more or less lampshaded by the fact that Cypha won by basically being immune to Signums attacks, but show to be pretty unable to stop the blazing general from hitting her, on the other side, Cypha was only able to land a hit after Signum gets disarmed.

Kikaifan

2010-11-11, 01:06

It's my opinion that Cypha's not unskilled.

It's just that Signum's FAR more skilled than she is.

Cypha KNOWS how to use blades and how to fight someone one-on-one.

Cypha basically got to a certain level of skill, combined with the Eclipse, means that she really had no desire nor need to get any better in skill.

I wouldn't disagree at all. It's hard to know a whole lot about Cypha's exact skill level; losing to Signum sword-to-sword hardly makes you bad, and winning when you have some crazy night-invincible body that breaks your opponents' weapons doesn't make you good.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-11, 01:27

and winning when you have some crazy night-invincible body that breaks your opponents' weapons doesn't make you good.

On the bright side of things i think that's also an impressive feat for Signum, two factors allow to a sword to break that way. One is the hardness of the target and the second is the force of the impact, That means Signum breaks Laevatein with the sheer brute force of her attacks(chopping off an arm of a near-invulnerable being in the process), dear lord, Teana is lucky to still having a head.

re-reading the fight(a painful task for me T-T) i think again that the only think Signum needs to defeat Cypha is a sword that don't break, leaving her open.

al103

2010-11-11, 01:40

... Nove? Glasses? WTF?

PS. It's seems that Vivid come outright fetish pandering route...

Akiyoshi

2010-11-11, 01:42

... Nove? Glasses? WTF?

PS. It's seems that Vivid come outright fetish pandering route...

Nove is a surprisingly fitting meganekko xD.

Glasses are the new black.

Marsala

2010-11-11, 03:42

... Nove? Glasses? WTF?

PS. It's seems that Vivid come outright fetish pandering route...

This is not news. :heh:

al103

2010-11-11, 03:43

Nove is a surprisingly fitting meganekko xD.

Glasses are the new black.

Given that I:
1. Never had such fetish
2. Have other fetish, which meganekko!Nove heavily detracts from...

OBJECTION!!!!

PS. Page claim for cute tomboys overall and Subaru and Nove in particular.

Sheba

2010-11-11, 05:16

Nothing unusual about being pushed back, Signum is a strength character while Fate is agility. As long as she blocked it and is uninjured, I don't think it says much. Sure, she's holding back, whatever, but Signum couldn't win the battle against Fate without doing more damage to her than she apparently wanted to.

Though there was that one time where someone asked Signum who was the strongest (Between the three aces and her, if I recall correctly), and she said something like "It depends on the circumstances since it could change on any given day" so unless Signum was being modest, it's not like she thinks she has much of an edge herself.

Meh, I only vaguely remember that from somewhere, but I'm pretty sure it was said somewhere.

Signum IS strong AND fast. Her biggest flaw is the lack of a staple long-range spell a la Divine Buster, other than the snake form that can reach mid-long range. She is basically a fighting game character who doesn't have a fireball move until she filled her super combo gauge to use her Device's Bow Mode. Unlike Nanoha who can do Hadoken, Hadoken, Hadoken, SHINKU HADOKEN!

Demi.

2010-11-11, 10:45

She's still a strength character. Unless you can show me somewhere that focuses on how incredibly fast she is, which is Fate's main advantage against pretty much everyone.

00-Raiser

2010-11-11, 10:47

And yet we never see Fate win a fight against one of her peers (outside of her intitial Nanoha beatings).

Demi.

2010-11-11, 11:01

When did they actually show a fight, outside of Vivid and once or 2'ce with Chrono? That were not Sound Stage material. Which was a pretty sketchy contest, anyways.

And just because she's got speed advantage over everyone, doesn't mean she has much of any other advantage.

Justin_Brett

2010-11-11, 11:05

So are the

dual wielded claymores the most ridiculous weapon we've seen so far?

Demi.

2010-11-11, 11:08

Does fortress mode count as a weapon? If so....I think that easily trumps them.

Sheba

2010-11-11, 11:09

So are the

dual wielded claymores the most ridiculous weapon we've seen so far?

Dual wielding claymores IS mundane compared to Masamune Date's SIX KATANA in Sengoku Basara.

Keroko

2010-11-11, 11:22

So are the

dual wielded claymores the most ridiculous weapon we've seen so far?

Pft, in the ridiculous weapon department almost all of Fate's weapons count. The bardiche form's the only exception to the rule, but even there there's a disconnect. It's not exactly a light and agile weapon. Beyond that? A scythe (aka, a farming tool, not a weapon) a giant broad sword so big it can't possibly be wielded right beyond 'swing and let gravity to it's job' (one of the things berserk did right) and dual wielding swordschucks each of which are big enough to qualify as two handed weapons on their own.

The wolkies are fine, though a sword of Signum's size would benefit from a shield.

StrikerS gave us the first gunblades with awkwardly placed daggers on the handguard, and a wacky spear with balance issues. Oh, and dagger-fingers. Something you really don't want to use for stabbing.

Then Force came along with real gunblades and Squal's cousin to seal the deal. And while I'm not a big one on gun knowledge, I really don't think Arnage's weaponry can be wielded like she does. Gundam Fortress mode just was icing on the cake.

And of course, Vivid gave us a plushie.

But hey, it looks cool and it's magic. That's all I need.

00-Raiser

2010-11-11, 11:24

So are the

dual wielded claymores the most ridiculous weapon we've seen so far?

Deneve doesn't think it's too weird :p

I actually think seeing Cinque drive is sillier :heh:

But those aren't Claymores anyways, they're tonfas like what Schach uses. Standard equipment for battle nuns, I guess.

I really hope that first colour page is uncensored in the takubon release :naughty:

Nanya01

2010-11-11, 11:30

No kidding! :naughty:

But, damn, Fate's got a good outfit. *nods*

Nove's glasses are pretty cool, actually.

Hmm... Wonder why she has them...

Akiyoshi

2010-11-11, 11:30

Given that I:
OBJECTION!!!!

PS. Page claim for cute tomboys overall and Subaru and Nove in particular.

I always liked Nove's tomboyishg traits, it's only that it surprises me how well the glasses fit her(her look kind of reminds me of Manabe Nodoka from K-On).

Signum IS strong AND fast. Her biggest flaw is the lack of a staple long-range spell a la Divine Buster, other than the snake form that can reach mid-long range. She is basically a fighting game character who doesn't have a fireball move until she filled her super combo gauge to use her Device's Bow Mode. Unlike Nanoha who can do Hadoken, Hadoken, Hadoken, SHINKU HADOKEN!

She's still a strength character. Unless you can show me somewhere that focuses on how incredibly fast she is, which is Fate's main advantage against pretty much everyone.

Signum speed is probably second only to Fate and Tre, she's the fastest of the Wolkenritter and outfast every other opponent she have not named Fate(that includes Zest and Nanoha, she even outfast Cypha ...TWICE), it's only that Fate is so astonishingly fast that make Signum look slow by comparission, still their battle proves how balanced Signum is to able to catch up with Fate enormous speed despite being slower than her(like i said before, Signum's reflexes and timing are pretty good), part of why Cypha's battle bother me so much is that it seems like Signum is suddenly carrying the Idiot Ball and made not one but three horrible mistakes during said battle. So yeah, she's a good combination of everything, Strong but not as Vita, Fast but not as Fate, Powerfull but not as Nanoha/Hayate ....when you give good balanced stats but wants your character to be still fairly strong you need to sacrifice something in exchange, so Signum is lacking in range(without support) and AoE, she specializes in fighting close, single targets.

And yet we never see Fate win a fight against one of her peers (outside of her intitial Nanoha beatings).

It's funny because the battles when Signum shows how awesome she is are mostly against her own comrades xDU. Her battles against true villains are very short or don't end very well(her opponents in this regard are in order of appearance: a giant Sandworm, another Giant Sandworm, The Book of Darkness defense program, Gadget Drones, Zest, a whole batallion of Gadget Drones and Cypha).

00-Raiser

2010-11-11, 11:35

Nove's glasses are pretty cool, actually.

Hmm... Wonder why she has them...

Probably just to look smarter. I doubt she needs them, considering how she's equipped with mechanical eyes where any sort of impairment could be fixed with some repairs.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-11, 11:36

Pft, in the ridiculous weapon department almost all of Fate's weapons count. The bardiche form's the only exception to the rule, but even there there's a disconnect. It's not exactly a light and agile weapon. Beyond that? A scythe (aka, a farming tool, not a weapon) a giant broad sword so big it can't possibly be wielded right beyond 'swing and let gravity to it's job' (one of the things berserk did right) and dual wielding swordschucks each of which are big enough to qualify as two handed weapons on their own.

The wolkies are fine, though a sword of Signum's size would benefit from a shield.

StrikerS gave us the first gunblades with awkwardly placed daggers on the handguard, and a wacky spear with balance issues. Oh, and dagger-fingers. Something you really don't want to use for stabbing.

Then Force came along with real gunblades and Squal's cousin to seal the deal. And while I'm not a big one on gun knowledge, I really don't think Arnage's weaponry can be wielded like she does. Gundam Fortress mode just was icing on the cake.

And of course, Vivid gave us a plushie.

But hey, it looks cool and it's magic. That's all I need.

Hey! don't forget Steed, why everyone forgot about Steed ToT?

Nanya01

2010-11-11, 11:39

Hey! don't forget Steed, why everyone forgot about Steed ToT?

"Sorry, sir, but hacking into the time stream takes some time."

"Dammit, Skeet."

"Sorry, my name is Steed, Green Lantern."

"Ugh! It's Booster Gold!"

Keroko

2010-11-11, 11:44

Hey! don't forget Steed, why everyone forgot about Steed ToT?

Me: Steed's a weapon?

Steed: I'm not! I'm a highly sophisticated-

Me: Camera?

Steed: T_T

Jimmy C

2010-11-11, 11:48

And of course, Vivid gave us a plushie.

Hey! don't forget Steed, why everyone forgot about Steed ToT?

Strictly speaking, neither of those two are weapons, so they can't be considered ridiculous weapons. Although Vivio has used Sacred Heart in the mock battles, but Touma never used Steed in his battles.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-11, 12:10

but Touma never used Steed in his battles.

With a bit of imagination Steed can use his flash and become an impromptu Taiyou-ken xD!

DezoPenguin

2010-11-11, 13:04

This is not news. :heh:

This has not been news since Chapter 1. :heh:

I wouldn't disagree at all. It's hard to know a whole lot about Cypha's exact skill level; losing to Signum sword-to-sword hardly makes you bad, and winning when you have some crazy night-invincible body that breaks your opponents' weapons doesn't make you good.

Honestly, I don't even think of the Huckebein as "opponents"; they're more like story-mode bosses in an RPG. They can only be beaten until you've completed seventeen fetch quests and cashed in the Plot Coupons that disable their regeneration. I mean, we've never been given any details on the extent of the Eclipse virus; for all we know they could be reduced to subatomic particles and regenerate (it is, after all, powered by magic, and if the Book of the Silver Cross is on par with the Tome of the Night Sky, *shrug* ). The main characters are bad enough with their Strength of Plot power levels, but debating the skill level of people who barely qualify as people...

And yet we never see Fate win a fight against one of her peers (outside of her intitial Nanoha beatings).

Not that anyone else ever does, either. Every time the cast throws down against each other in a mock battle, it ends in a tie. The only time somebody wins is when there's a massive difference in skill/experience (Fate vs. Chrono in her mage test, Nanoha & Fate vs. trainer lady, Subaru and Tea vs. Nanoha in the infamous "cool your head" battle, and for that matter the early S1 Fate/Nanoha fights), which really isn't "fighting your peers" but "fighting your superiors."

Pft, in the ridiculous weapon department almost all of Fate's weapons count. The bardiche form's the only exception to the rule, but even there there's a disconnect. It's not exactly a light and agile weapon. Beyond that? A scythe (aka, a farming tool, not a weapon) a giant broad sword so big it can't possibly be wielded right beyond 'swing and let gravity to it's job' (one of the things berserk did right) and dual wielding swordschucks each of which are big enough to qualify as two handed weapons on their own.

That's all assuming that the energy blade parts of Bardiche's assorted forms have mass. Doesn't fix the weapon dynamics of Scythe/Haken form, though (which in fact may explain why she moved on to Zanber/Riot Blade/Riot Zanber forms...). It makes me wonder if the scythe form came about because Fate was a nine-year-old kid (or younger!) at the time and she thought it looked cool and intimidating...

StrikerS gave us the first gunblades with awkwardly placed daggers on the handguard,

Who was that? I'm suddenly drawing a blank...

and a wacky spear with balance issues. Oh, and dagger-fingers. Something you really don't want to use for stabbing.

Is that Strada, or Zest's spear?

It did give us tonfas, and throwing knives, though. Come to think of it, Tre and Sette's blades were pretty wacky weapons designs, too--Tre's never seem to quite point the right way, and Sette's... *shakes head*

But hey, it looks cool and it's magic. That's all I need.

"It's magic" is simultaneously my favorite handwave and my greatest source of frustration about how this series works. :D

Rising Dragon

2010-11-11, 13:07

Awkward gun-daggers would be Teana.

Justin_Brett

2010-11-11, 13:08

...wait, where IS Steed, anyway? We haven't seem him in like four chapters.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-11, 13:14

...wait, where IS Steed, anyway? We haven't seem him in like four chapters.

the only reason i wasn't labeled him as a case of "What Happened to the Mouse?" yet is because the manga is still ongoing, but yep he's passed 4 chapters completely missing. Poor little magical camera T-T.

Tiresias

2010-11-11, 13:20

the only reason i wasn't labeled him as a case of "What Happened to the Mouse?" yet is because the manga is still ongoing, but yep he's passed 4 chapters completely missing. Poor little magical camera T-T.

A good, yet less likely explanation, is that's he's busy taking photographs of vital Huckebein intel using the chaos.

A bad, yet more likely one, is that the mangaka forgot about him in the amidst all the new heavy weapons :heh:

Akiyoshi

2010-11-11, 13:26

A bad, yet more likely one, is that the mangaka forgot about him in the amidst all the new heavy weapons :heh:

It's a bit jarring considering that Steed receive a prominent space on the first promotional poster of FORCE(but ...so does Signum and Agito, and consdering the role they play well yeah, it's a bit tricky xDU).

Tiresias

2010-11-11, 14:34

About Vivid, I don't really understand what the hype about nun-girl's weapon. I mean, dual-wielded claymore-tonfas are rather tame by the standards of anime and japanese games (a sankaku complex article comes into mind) :heh:. I hope suspect that she'll have an adult mode to wield them properly :p

But hey, there's glasses Nove (why a super cyborg would need glasses is beyond me), so hurrah anyway :D

Akiyoshi

2010-11-11, 14:43

But hey, there's glasses Nove (why a super cyborg would need glasses is beyond me), so hurrah anyway :D

Just ask Quattro(but you need to pay visit in jail to do so xD).

Keroko

2010-11-11, 14:56

Strictly speaking, neither of those two are weapons, so they can't be considered ridiculous weapons. Although Vivio has used Sacred Heart in the mock battles, but Touma never used Steed in his battles.

Which is why I don't count Steed. Chris, though, is the same as any other Intelligent Device, and while the support types are usually exempt from being called ridiculous (hence why no notion of pink staffs and books) Chris is a frigging plushie.

That's all assuming that the energy blade parts of Bardiche's assorted forms have mass. Doesn't fix the weapon dynamics of Scythe/Haken form, though (which in fact may explain why she moved on to Zanber/Riot Blade/Riot Zanber forms...). It makes me wonder if the scythe form came about because Fate was a nine-year-old kid (or younger!) at the time and she thought it looked cool and intimidating...

Which why I said 'it's magic, so it's good enough for me.' They're ridiculous weapons being handwaved with magic. Works, but that doesn't make them any less ridiculous. Just easier to suspend disbelief.

Who was that? I'm suddenly drawing a blank...

Teana.

Is that Strada, or Zest's spear?

Strada. Zest's... I guess I'd call it a glaive, is actually believable.

It did give us tonfas, and throwing knives, though. Come to think of it, Tre and Sette's blades were pretty wacky weapons designs, too--Tre's never seem to quite point the right way, and Sette's... *shakes head*

Oh I'm not saying all of them were ridiculous, but a few of them definitely were. Forgot about Sette's boomerang-thingies.

"It's magic" is simultaneously my favorite handwave and my greatest source of frustration about how this series works. :D

I just go with it, less frustration.

About Vivid, I don't really understand what the hype about nun-girl's weapon. I mean, dual-wielded claymore tonfas are rather tame by the standards of anime and japanese games (a sankaku complex article comes into mind) :heh:. I hope suspect that she'll have an adult mode to wield them properly :p

But hey, there's glasses Nove (why a super cyborg would need glasses is beyond me), so hurrah anyway :D

It's mostly because tonfa's are awesome weapons, yet rather rare in anime and manga. I would love seeing more tonfa action myself too.

Tiresias

2010-11-11, 15:06

Which is why I don't count Steed. Chris, though, is the same as any other Intelligent Device, and while the support types are usually exempt from being called ridiculous (hence why no notion of pink staffs and books) Chris is a frigging plushie.

Steed: *runs to Shari* "I'm being forgotten. Need help. Even something remotely badass would do"
Shari: *grins* "...if you want, I can turn your camera into a cannon capable of shaping and accelerating a stream of superheated molten metal to relativistic velocities?"
Steed: "...is that even possible?"
Shari: "Excuse me? I'm a brilliant (read: MAD) engineer!"

It's mostly because tonfa's are awesome weapons, yet rather rare in anime and manga. I would love seeing more tonfa action myself too.

It's not like they're going to actually animate them anyway. Just some drawings of the weapon being wielded is enough for a manga. Also, as awesome as it could be, I don't expect the mangaka to suddenly be able to draw "crazy, geometrically insane screen-filling magic" ;)

Rising Dragon

2010-11-11, 15:09

Admittedly I haven't seen these tonfas you people are talking about, but StrikerS already gave us a tonfa-wielding character, so we know even if they did animate them it wouldn't really be a problem.

Kikaifan

2010-11-11, 22:03

...being a longtime fan of Suikoden II I have trouble thinking of tonfa as obscure XD

Kaijo

2010-11-11, 22:16

I wouldn't really consider any of the weapons thus far to be awkward, at least if you're referring to weight. For all we know, they're made of incredibly advanced materials that render them incredibly light, and mana formed into a blade could possibly be really light as well. Thus, swinging one could be much like swinging a feather, but far deadlier.

Edit: And Chris/Kris being a plushie doesn't bother me much; it was made for a little girl, after all, and the real device is inside. I'm still waiting for the moment when the plush material goes away revealing what's inside, which accompanies a power-up for Vivio.

Nya~n

2010-11-11, 22:51

You strip the bunny to find a terminator-style bunny metal skeleton!

00-Raiser

2010-11-11, 23:21

why a super cyborg would need glasses is beyond me

They're analysis glasses. They're used for analyzing.

Rising Dragon

2010-11-11, 23:26

And to make her more attractive to people who go for that characteristic.

Keroko

2010-11-12, 03:18

I wouldn't really consider any of the weapons thus far to be awkward, at least if you're referring to weight. For all we know, they're made of incredibly advanced materials that render them incredibly light, and mana formed into a blade could possibly be really light as well. Thus, swinging one could be much like swinging a feather, but far deadlier.

Weight is only one factor in the awkwardness of a weapon. But even making the weapons weightless doesn't always solve the weight problem, and instead may actually create problems. Fate's zamber, for example, is a type of weapon who's only saving grace is it's weight.

So yeah, some weapons in Nanoha borrow the improbable weapons trope, but like I said, it's cool and it's magic. That's good enough for me.

Kaijo

2010-11-12, 08:19

Weight is only one factor in the awkwardness of a weapon. But even making the weapons weightless doesn't always solve the weight problem, and instead may actually create problems. Fate's zamber, for example, is a type of weapon who's only saving grace is it's weight.

So yeah, some weapons in Nanoha borrow the improbable weapons trope, but like I said, it's cool and it's magic. That's good enough for me.

I wouldn't say that. It certainly proved effective enough against Tre. Remember, magic can provide the properties you want. So it could be weightless, yet still hit like a truck.

ykf566

2010-11-12, 10:13

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3461/force1120.jpg
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2959/force1121.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/1319/force1122.jpg

Sorry i had to.

Justin_Brett

2010-11-12, 10:52

You had to link three dead images? Don't worry, I understand completely.

00-Raiser

2010-11-12, 11:07

That's what happens when you directly link from another person's site. Seriously, use photobucket or imageshack to upload things. Don't steal other people's bandwidth.

ykf566

2010-11-12, 11:09

Should be fixed now. Thanks for that

al103

2010-11-12, 12:30

And to make her more attractive to people who go for that characteristic.

And make her unattractive for those who do not.

PS. And again pageclaim for cute tomboys, especially Nove :D

Justin_Brett

2010-11-12, 14:01

Speaking of 11, you can only kinda see him, but apparently No Shirt Guy jumped out of the ship too, with presumably the same plan for crashing as Arnage. I guess Cypha is the only one who can fly.

I assume Touma's gonna be fighting him after Nanoha's done her job, but who knows.

FRS

2010-11-12, 15:32

So what's going on with Thomas on those pics ? is it his super overpowered attack in action ?

aers

2010-11-12, 15:44

So what's going on with Thomas on those pics ? is it his super overpowered attack in action ?

I don't think it's all that super overpowered because Nanoha dodges the thing in the next few panels.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-12, 16:00

I don't think it's all that super overpowered because Nanoha dodges the thing in the next few panels.

...thanks to her training dodging and blocking Photon Lancer's Pahalnx and Genocide Shifts xD.

Justin_Brett

2010-11-12, 16:25

I don't think it's all that super overpowered because Nanoha dodges the thing in the next few panels.

And naturally, Arnage gets hit with all of them, yet is completely fine in the next panel.

This book kinda sucks, blood spewing aside.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-12, 16:50

And naturally, Arnage gets hit with all of them, yet is completely fine in the next panel.

This book kinda sucks, blood spewing aside.

It's a matter of time before it start throwing city leveling attacks like Reinforce Eins xD

aers

2010-11-12, 17:09

And naturally, Arnage gets hit with all of them, yet is completely fine in the next panel.

This book kinda sucks, blood spewing aside.

Does she really? I didn't even notice.

<_>

Keroko

2010-11-12, 20:57

I wouldn't say that. It certainly proved effective enough against Tre. Remember, magic can provide the properties you want. So it could be weightless, yet still hit like a truck.

That's pretty much what I'm saying, they're ridiculous weapons being handwaved with magic. Works, but that doesn't make their ideas any less ridiculous. You just add a little sprinkle off 'it's magic' and go with the flow.

Remember, the ridiculous weapon description isn't used to describe how well a weapon functions in the series, but how well it would function in real life.

And naturally, Arnage gets hit with all of them, yet is completely fine in the next panel.

This book kinda sucks, blood spewing aside.

First people think it's too powerful, now it's so weak it sucks, poor weapons in Force just can't seem to get it right.

00-Raiser

2010-11-12, 21:41

Remember that Arnage has super durability and regeneration too.

Nightengale

2010-11-12, 21:50

It was one million magical projectiles. That is like... 50,000 times more than the usual amount of projectiles we see with Accel Shooter and Photon Lancer Genocide Shift combined.

I highly doubt they were meant to be used for anything more than a scare tactic. Thoma after all, still has control over his own self, just so long as there's still some distance between himself and the threat-detecting system.

Kaijo

2010-11-12, 22:00

That's pretty much what I'm saying, they're ridiculous weapons being handwaved with magic. Works, but that doesn't make their ideas any less ridiculous. You just add a little sprinkle off 'it's magic' and go with the flow.

That's magic for ya. The general aim is to accomplish things that you can't with real-life physics. That's why it's magic. After all, you can't very well point a finger at someone and shoot a pink beam, can you? I view that, and the weapon improbabilities, in the same way; they both defy real-life physics by making use of a mysterious force.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-13, 01:23

First people think it's too powerful, now it's so weak it sucks, poor weapons in Force just can't seem to get it right.

Well that's what they got for being so unconsistent xDU(to be fair, the Dividers are more or less consistent so far, it's only that they fell like intruders from another series. the AEC's are the ones that are awfully unconsistent).

FRS

2010-11-13, 03:01

I don't think it's all that super overpowered because Nanoha dodges the thing in the next few panels.

:heh:

Ah well, i'll have to wait for the scanlated version to see it for myself.

Keroko

2010-11-13, 07:31

That's magic for ya. The general aim is to accomplish things that you can't with real-life physics. That's why it's magic. After all, you can't very well point a finger at someone and shoot a pink beam, can you? I view that, and the weapon improbabilities, in the same way; they both defy real-life physics by making use of a mysterious force.

... weird, you're quoting me almost word for word, but it somehow feels as if you're disagreeing with me. :heh:

DezoPenguin

2010-11-13, 10:02

... weird, you're quoting me almost word for word, but it somehow feels as if you're disagreeing with me. :heh:

It does sound almost like you're saying the same things back and forth at each other. :D

(Actually, I think it feels like disagreement because it sounds like you're saying, "There's so many absurd weapons in this series, but hey, it's magic, so it's all OK" while Kaijo sounds like he's saying, "The series is all about magic, so it's OK if they have ridiculous weapons." That is, you come across as noticing the weapons first, then excusing it, while he comes across as noticing the magic first, then noticing that some stuff wouldn't work without the magic. Same conclusion, but different processes to get there. Or at least that's what it reads like. :heh: )

Kaijo

2010-11-13, 12:28

... weird, you're quoting me almost word for word, but it somehow feels as if you're disagreeing with me. :heh:

Dez got it mostly right. I'm basically saying, "Sure, may seem weird, but I accept it because it's magic. It's not really an issue for me."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're saying, "Yeah, I know, it's magic. It still doesn't feel right to me, but I guess I have to accept the fact they can do these ridiculous things and explain it away with magic."

I think that's why it feels like disagreement, even if we're saying almost the same thing. Explaining weapons and spells away with magic works for me, much like ships traveling through hyperspace works for me. I can just accept it, despite what physics may say. Or how, in the Stargate universe, wormhole travel is perfectly acceptable to me, and I don't have any issues with it.

Keroko

2010-11-13, 14:28

Slight rephrasing, what goes through my mind is pretty much what Dez said.

I have no problems with explaining weapons away with magic. Never have, never will (I mean, I'm the one who spend dozens of pages arguing Barrier Jackets in-universe working simply because 'it's magic'). It's just that when they're discussed out of universe I'll still call them ridiculous weapons that only work because of magic.

In other words, I only bring up the ridicule of magical weapons when it's actively being discussed. Like now.

Bananoha

2010-11-14, 23:19

http://piclair.com/data/d8c2j.jpg

DAMN RIGHT, ISIS AND ARNAGE. You know what that means.

I love Arnage more and more.

Nanya01

2010-11-14, 23:20

http://piclair.com/data/d8c2j.jpg

DAMN RIGHT, ISIS AND ARNAGE. You know what that means.

I love Arnage more and more.

I loved Arnage first!

I was working on some fanfics with her in them and got to liking her!

Everyone copies me. :p

Kaijo

2010-11-14, 23:47

Now Vita is using a Strike Cannon, too!?

Hayate is planning on using "Heimdall"? Some new special spell she has that will somehow be effective? She seems to think it'll bring the ship down.

Isis's device is "Puffy"? Lol. Reminds me of that flying creature in Grandia that perched on Sue's head. Seems rather talkative, too.

Isis whacks Arnage and then Arnage calls Isis a "Bloody Washboard" heh. Meanwhile, while they're trading insults, Nanoha speeds past.

Looking forward to seeing Nanoha fight Thoma, Isis and Arnage fight, and perhaps seeing Deville (or is it Ville?) fight.

Edit to add this Puffy Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF2kVA5XVes&feature=related). Come oooon, Puffy! Rah Rah!

00-Raiser

2010-11-15, 00:22

Hayate is planning on using "Heimdall"? Some new special spell she has that will somehow be effective? She seems to think it'll bring the ship down.

Heimdall is the god who will signal the coming of Ragnarok and is the last god who will die when he and Loki kill each other.

Isis's device is "Puffy"? Lol. Reminds me of that flying creature in Grandia that perched on Sue's head. Seems rather talkative, too.

What else would you call a device that uses gas based attacks? And yeah, it seems like devices these days have more advanced AIs with better speaking abilities.

and perhaps seeing Deville (or is it Ville?) fight.

It's both. Full name Deville, shortened to Ville.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-15, 02:37

Puffy! LOL

Ok, Ch. 11 is a setup for the great battle between Nanoha and Tohma? i hope december chapter will be the Xmas present we will waiting for(my birthday was on June 27, more or less around the time Ch. 7 came out and yes, not the best of my birthdays T-T).

FRS

2010-11-15, 03:52

Thanks for the chapter guys.

I hope we ll see Isis in action in the next chapter.

Scarletknive

2010-11-15, 04:23

http://piclair.com/data/d8c2j.jpg

DAMN RIGHT, ISIS AND ARNAGE. You know what that means.

I love Arnage more and more.

source of this image?or should i say "where u get this translated chapter?"

Keroko

2010-11-15, 05:18

I loved Arnage first!

I was working on some fanfics with her in them and got to liking her!

Everyone copies me. :p

Hah! I already loved her when we only knew her as 'that girl with the goggles' way back during chapter 4, so get in line. :p

The more dakka theme she has going on right now only makes me love her more. <3

Tiresias

2010-11-15, 09:11

Reads Force 11...

Such pretty beams...I wish it would be animated...add Arnage's pseudo-CWIS...and Nanoha's missile evade (seriously, did she really just evaded those missile barrages?!)...

Oh please, please don't screw up chapter 12, not after all the build up!

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/9921/mslnfdowcomparison.jpg

Myname

2010-11-15, 09:11

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3461/force1120.jpg
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2959/force1121.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/1319/force1122.jpg

Sorry i had to.

I am the bone of my book
Paper is my body and ink is my blood
I have created over a thousand pages
Unknown to loss
Nor known to gain
Withstood pain to write many stories
Yet these hands will never hold anything
So as I pray Unlimited Paper Works.

LoweGear

2010-11-15, 10:59

Nanya01

2010-11-15, 11:15

source of this image?or should i say "where u get this translated chapter?"

It's up on Mangafox now.

Justin_Brett

2010-11-15, 14:07

Wait a minute, in one page the book says "three hostile existences remain": Arnage, Isis and Nanoha.

...welp, sucks to be you, Ville.

And please don't tell me Arnage is going to go the Ouka/Seolla route with persuading Touma. It was irritating enough when they did it.

al103

2010-11-15, 14:53

...

Welcome to Touhou, Touma.

Bonta Kun

2010-11-15, 16:17

Haha Touma was scared at the thought of being scolded by Subaru but now it seems like he's really gonna see what real terror, fear and hell is like:heh:

I seriously hope Nanoha lives up to her name and handles Touma with some relative ease, I've always liked the fact she basically toys with her opponents:p

aers

2010-11-15, 17:23

What opponents has she 'toyed' with? o.O

Nightengale

2010-11-15, 18:38

Raising Heart said [It is a powerful opponent]

... So I hope not.

Scarletknive

2010-11-15, 19:40

The more I look at Nanoha flying with Fortress Mode in the latest chapter, the more I'm reminded of the Wing Gundam Zero for some reason. Nanoha casually bypassing Isis and Arnage while the latter two were at each other's through though was :heh:

i think otherwise...Why do i think of Gundam Qan(T)?(Unless u think Arnage is Heavyarms(or is she?))

She even said:"hmm...I was first?" LOL! Are they racing or what?

Nvis

2010-11-16, 02:30

http://piclair.com/data/d8c2j.jpg

I have a feeling these two will be best friends(gal pals).

Akiyoshi

2010-11-16, 05:59

I seriously hope Nanoha lives up to her name and handles Touma with some relative ease, I've always liked the fact she basically toys with her opponents:p

I don't want to see Nanoha win on mater of seconds, it will be very jarring considering all the hype over the Book of the Silver Cross, still i hope to see a great battle and seeing the Fortress mode live up to it's fame. I like to see Raising Heart actually doing something again(apparently she administrates the functions of the Fortress Mode, still a bit sad to see her transformed into an attack drone tough), finally Hayate decides to enter action and apparently she finally will try to exploit Eclipse weaknesses(whatever magic she plans to use it it appears to be traditional one so maybe she plans to finally gain advantage of collateral effects rather than direct impacts.

Now hoping for ViVid to get tranlated xDU.

Marsala

2010-11-16, 08:16

I don't want to see Nanoha win on mater of seconds, it will be very jarring considering all the hype over the Book of the Silver Cross, still i hope to see a great battle and seeing the Fortress mode live up to it's fame. I like to see Raising Heart actually doing something again(apparently she administrates the functions of the Fortress Mode, still a bit sad to see her transformed into an attack drone tough), finally Hayate decides to enter action and apparently she finally will try to exploit Eclipse weaknesses(whatever magic she plans to use it it appears to be traditional one so maybe she plans to finally gain advantage of collateral effects rather than direct impacts.

Now hoping for ViVid to get tranlated xDU.

Hayate mentioned that the Huckebein are over the water now. Maybe she plans to freeze them?

Laith

2010-11-16, 08:49

Now hoping for ViVid to get tranlated xDU.

Check MangaFox~~

Moczo

2010-11-16, 08:49

All right... as far as the latest ViVid goes, all I really have to say is that the little ojou Thunder Emperor girl is clearly going to be loads of fun. Vivio and Einhart are fine, but I appreciate a little bitchiness in my princesses. Tsunderiffic!

Tiresias

2010-11-16, 09:16

Hayate mentioned that the Huckebein are over the water now. Maybe she plans to freeze them?

Nah, I think what she meant is that now that the target is above sea, she can just shoot it down without fearing the collateral damage that would happen had the ship crashed to land.

Btw, is S-Quad Huckebein the name of the ship?

All right... as far as the latest ViVid goes, all I really have to say is that the little ojou Thunder Emperor girl is clearly going to be loads of fun. Vivio and Einhart are fine, but I appreciate a little bitchiness in my princesses. Tsunderiffic!

The Tohsaka is strong in this one? :p Now if only she wore the appropriate twintail

One other scene that made me chuckled is the one where the nun was worried that fighting Vivio would equal blasphemy :D

Blank-Mage

2010-11-16, 10:07

Aaaaagh, reading Force and Vivid at the same time... Badass Commander Hayate followed immediately by (an inexplicably younger and possibly chibi) happy family Hayate was jarring. Nice to see Agito and Rein getting along, though. I like to imagine them arguing over the device. ("Fire type!" "Ice type!" "Fire type!" "Ice type!") And damn, they're people sized now!

And once again, the Nanoverse proves to be populated by some of the most eccentric and bizarre mash of characters in manga: A reincarnation of an ancient ruler, a clone of his love, a tsundere lightning princess, a contortionist trained by an ancient wolf-guardian, a nun, a high school delinquent, 2 prodigal elementary schoolers, and... well, Lutecia. This is the best tournament ever.

Moczo

2010-11-16, 10:07

The Tohsaka is strong in this one? :p Now if only she wore the appropriate twintail

There's always her Barrier Jacket!

Nanya01

2010-11-16, 10:09

Reading ViVid...

Sein's silly.

Nove looks awesome as always.

Hayate made me laugh and the way that Einhart reacted to her was just perfect.

Looks like this chapter confirms that Rio has dual elemental conversion affinity in Lightning and Fire.

Nya~n

2010-11-16, 10:53

still too early to say on that

Tiresias

2010-11-16, 10:59

There's always her Barrier Jacket!

Red barrier jacket with black skirt + zettai ryouiki, and a red pendant as her device's stand by mode...yummy! :p Of course, the butler better be able to conjure armed devices out of thin air...and make damn good tea :heh:

Hmm, Jacqueline (last year's champion) was stated to have a "Unified Magic Battle Technique". I wonder what that means?

XAlight

2010-11-16, 11:38

I'm wondering what Hayate wants from Einhart in exchange for the device - seeing hayate on page 14 with such a face :heh:

Seems the upcoming tournament with such a wide range of people will have some surprises.

Kaijo

2010-11-16, 12:11

A few translation oddities with regards to names, because I've seen them spelled a bit differently, was wondering if we had official translations or if someone can speak up and say which is more correct... They keep calling Einhart that "Haou" kid... what does that mean?

Rio or Lio? Seems to be back to Lio this chapter.

Miura Linard, or Rinaldi?

Shanti Opinion or Shante Apinion?

Harri Tribeca or Harii Tribeccah?

Victoria Dahlgren or Dargrion?

Lastly, Sieglinde Elimia or Jaquilinde Ermia?

Just trying to get things straight, heh. Other than that, was the typical "overview of the competition" and we'll have to wait until the next few chapters to really see their skills, which I'm really hoping to see. It'll be interesting to see the variety of magic and combat techniques, especially from people who aren't our main heroes.

I thought Miura was gonna be hand-to-hand style if she was trained by Zafira, but her skill of "drawing the sword from the sheath" implies she'll be using a sword. Jaquilinde (the mysterious jogger) appears to be going hand-to-hand, if "Iron Arm" is any indiciation; and I'm betting "unified" means a mix of hand-to-hand and traditional spells. Ojou-sama has her lightning magic, Harii the schoolgirl has "Close Range Cannon Blast" which could almost be a ki-blast of some sort, so I'm betting hand-to-hand for her. And of course, Shanti is a mini-Schach, so dual-wielding tonfa.

Apparently Erio and Caro aren't going to participate, though, which makes me :(

I'm wondering what Hayate wants from Einhart in exchange for the device - seeing hayate on page 14 with such a face :heh:

Isn't it obvious? Hayate wants to grope Einhart's adult form to check her bust size. :P

Edit: Hayate wearing a tanuki mask.. it SOOOO suits her personality.

Nightengale

2010-11-16, 12:32

Akiyoshi

2010-11-16, 13:08

It's curious how Miura and Shante use mid-childan magic depite being trained under Belkan Schools with equally Belkan Style instructors(Yagami Family with Zafira and the Saint Church with Schach). Still, Miura receive training on Strike Arts Yagami style by Zafira wich will of course be interesting, but what really catch my attention is her skill called "Bukkei" wich is translated like some sort of Battoujutsu(or "drawing the sword from the sheat", you know, that Kenshin stuff), so she will also use sowrdsman skills? i'm officially waiting to see this girl on the battlefield..

00-Raiser

2010-11-16, 14:18

Rio or Lio? Seems to be back to Lio this chapter.

It all depends on the translator, but it's officially Rio. Her device speaks english like the others, so even in the raw you see 'Rio'

So Victoria's special skill is Jinrai, huh? Yup, this tournament is over! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSld0Ie6PVo)

The Tohsaka is strong in this one? :p Now if only she wore the appropriate twintail

Nah, Rin was never a pompous rich girl (her family is quite poor, actually). Besides, Hayate's already Rin! Victoria is more like Luviagelita, though personally I thought of Touka from Saki.

vic-vic

2010-11-16, 14:52

Ha-Ou translates to Dark King. Just like how Sei-Ou is Sankt Kaiser. ( Saint King )

As for actual romanisations of the names... official names aren't released yet, so we'll have to stick with what 'sounds' right. Just like how Thoma was Touma before we knew his proper English name.

But we can guess some surnames right easily by comparing them to automobile names. For example, Tribeca is definitely the correct romanisation, derived from Subaru Tribeca.

Actually, "Ha Ou" means "High/Great King".
Dark king is Mei Ou

Nya~n

2010-11-16, 14:59

"Dominating/Tyrant King", actually.

dahak

2010-11-16, 15:20

They keep calling Einhart that "Haou" kid... what does that mean?

It's been translated in earlier issues as Hegemon IIRC.

Likewise Seiou - Sankt Kaiser and the new Raitei - Thunder Emperor.

Amaterasu1963

2010-11-16, 16:23

Well, I took a look at Nanoha wiki to see if they had any updates about the names.

Shante is probably correct since there is a Mazda Shante (Chantez). I was just going with the common name.

The Subaru Tribeca has already been mentioned and the Lamborgini Miura is obvious.

It seems the Dahlgren family is a major part of Volvo; I spelled it that way because of the American civil war era cannon (named after its designer, John Dahlgren).

ジークリンデ (http://www.google.com/search?q=%E3%82%B8%E3%83%BC%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AA%E3%8 3%B3%E3%83%87&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) seems to me to be the standard Japanese spelling for Sieglinde sister of Siegmund and mother of Siegfried. Its used in multiple anime and games.

Kaijo

2010-11-16, 16:53

Amaterasu1963

2010-11-16, 16:57

al103

2010-11-16, 19:17

Rinaldi is an Italian name of course and there are several already in the series.

ri / li
ru / lu

リナルディ = ri - na - lu - de - i = Rinaldi. Please note the i on the end.

I suppose for complete options we could list: Linaldi, Linardi, Rinaldi, Rinardi.

It's funny as it is - because all four of them are proper surnames in Italy and/or Spain... And it's not like we haven't Spanish names also, Alicia comes to mind as it's Spanish variant of the name.

SNobleJr

2010-11-16, 20:11

While on the subject of translations... was I the only one who was actually bothered by all the Gratuitous Japanese in the latest ViVid scanlation? The aforementioned "Haou" and "Seiou", for example, when the translations "Hegemon" and "Sankt Kaiser" have already been fairly well established.

Not much happening in the chapter to comment on, anyway, mostly just setup for future events. Corona snuggling up to Rio in her sleep was adorable, though.

As for Force... well, Isis was kinda cute from the beginning, and now she's even starting to get some badass moments. And Arnage is rapidly growing on me with the dakka and boisterousness. "Bloody washboard"... *snrk*

Xellos-_^

2010-11-16, 21:24

Kaijo

2010-11-16, 21:47

I usually don't mind some Japanese, if there really isn't an English equivalent; honorifics for example are good ones, or some attack names. But yeah, if there's too much, it really distracts. I partially like it because it helps me learn a bit of Japanese, but really, the whole point should be translate as much as possible.

mechdra

2010-11-16, 23:32

Rising Dragon

2010-11-16, 23:42

From the latest translated chapter of Vivid, seems like Einhart is requesting something like a unison device. From what I know, ancient Belka magic needs someone to manage them in order to give their best performance. That means, Einhart is best suited with a unison device

An actual Unison Device, however, would run against Einhart's principles--she wants to prove her strength and the validity of her Kaiser Arts. Using a Unison Device won't aid in that. Besides, didn't earlier articles say that Einhart wanted a device like Vivio's Sacred Heart?

Kaijo

2010-11-17, 00:15

An actual Unison Device, however, would run against Einhart's principles--she wants to prove her strength and the validity of her Kaiser Arts. Using a Unison Device won't aid in that. Besides, didn't earlier articles say that Einhart wanted a device like Vivio's Sacred Heart?

Yep. She even held up the plush bunny, so she's gonna get a support/storage device, which will probably just help her regulate her mana better.

Which brings up an interesting angle; Vivio got trounced by Einhart early, and eventually it seems that she got to a point there at the end where they were more evenly matched (ended in a dual-knockout tie). But that was with Vivio using a device while Einhart wasn't.

Doesn't this mean Einhart will get a power boost once she gets her device, increasing the distance between her and Vivio once more?

Nightengale

2010-11-17, 00:27

Doesn't this mean Einhart will get a power boost once she gets her device, increasing the distance between her and Vivio once more?

How significant though, is a support-type device's help towards the performance of a mage?

We've seen that well-tuned Intelligent Devices really, really make a world of difference towards the average performance of a mage, evident by the jump of ease in Subaru and Teana's handling of magic in StrikerS. But that may not be the case for Einhart/Vivio's kind, whom are more 'hands-on' with their magic.

Besides, Rule of Rival demands that in tournaments, the rival must always be +1 compared to the hero(ine), so that the growth experienced in every match adds up to a chance of defeating that +1 advantage.

mielipuoli

2010-11-17, 00:55

I'll give Isis this, she recovers well from SUDDENLY BLOOD *blaaaagh*

Kikaifan

2010-11-17, 02:43

Nanya01

2010-11-17, 02:46

No. Translators who don't translate are annoying. Preserving the original language for 'style' when the characters aren't even speaking that language is especially silly.

Depends on what they're translating.

The whole Haoh and Seiou thing though, yeah, that's annoying.

Rising Dragon

2010-11-17, 02:48

SNobleJr

2010-11-17, 02:56

Wouldn't the proper thing to do be to inform them of the discrepency then? Sitting here complaining about it won't work, after all. Mistakes aren't corrected when those who made them aren't informed of them.

Didn't want to jump the gun before I at least vaguely knew the general opinion; I'm well aware that my stance on translation is not quite mainstream among anime fans. But now that it seems like I'm not alone with those grievances, yeah, I might drop the translator an email if no one else does.

Jimmy C

2010-11-17, 03:02

If these are the guys that did Vivid 14 and 15, they originally did translate those terms, but changed their minds on the matter in their second chapter.

dahak

2010-11-17, 10:52

Wouldn't the proper thing to do be to inform them of the discrepency then?

Already done. Along with some pointers on making the text flow a bit better.

What I've suggested is on their Wordpress site.

There will I'm informed be improvements on some of this in the High quality release.

dahak

2010-11-17, 11:27

How significant though, is a support-type device's help towards the performance of a mage?

Depends how they use it and how it is designed, doesn't it?

IIRC Storage devices enable you to hold more linked mana ready and cast spells faster because they act as a maths co processor.

Armed and Intelligent Devices provide a lower speed boost but can help with things like decision making, targeting and active defenses.

Unison Devices appear to take that to the extreme of being able to function totally independently at the expense of potential command and control problems.

If as seems likely at first Einhart uses her new toy purely for providing the various safety measures the tournament requires, it might not improve her performance at all. While Suberu was willing to trust Mach Calibre's decision making and got a big effectiveness bonus out of doing so, Ginga and Teana seemed less willing to hand things off to their devices and seemed to gain less of a benefit from having them because of that. In Ginga's case that may be not having had Blitz calibre for long or the brainwashing but Cross Mirage seems more like S2U or Durandel than Raising Heart or Bardiche. It is noticeable that Subaru and Nanoha both got their we can still fight pep talks from their devices and Teana got hers from flashbacks of Subaru rather than Cross Mirage. Einhart seems to me more like Teana than Subaru and I might expect that to carry over to her relationship with her device.

It is also seems clear from Yunno's experiences with Raising Heart that high end devices may not necessarily help at all, if you don't work well with them.

Kaijo

2010-11-17, 12:05

Teana did hold conversations with Cross Mirage, though. Off the top of my head, there's the whole "one hand" discussion she had with him during their first mission on the train. It may not be Teana's style to be touchy/feely with her device; she strikes me more as the "professional partner" while Nanoha and Subaru would be more emotive with their device.

If we go by the notion that devices are generally made for their partners, we can conclude that any AI aspects would also reflect that. And yeah, as Yuuno showed, a device may not necessarily help, though we don't really know the circumstances of his obtaining RH. But I think Einhart's device will be specifically made for her, so it should help some.

Kikaifan

2010-11-17, 15:55

Yeah, I think most of Yuuno's issue was that he had some very old, powerful device that wasn't optimized for him at all, which made for rough handling. Nanoha just happened to be well-suited to it or something.

Kaijo

2010-11-17, 16:02

Nanya01

2010-11-17, 16:08

Akiyoshi

2010-11-17, 16:28

You know, something just occurred to me, so I'm stating it now to see if I'm right.

Harri/Harii Tribeca is the sailor suit wearing school girl, who appears to be a bare-handed fighter, but with a close range cannon blast type attack. I'm calling it right now, that she'll be a shout-out to Sakura from the Street Fighter games. We're gonna see her pull off some Hadoken type move (but magical!).

It's curious because Nanoha already have a semi-Shout Out to Sakura Kasugano in Subaru Nakajima, her design losely reminds me of her(specially her short hair with that headband), she fangirls over an older main character(Nanoha), worn similar clothes(the upper part of her barrier jacket is designed from Nanoha's Agressive Mode) and also have a weaker(or in this case "shorter") version of one of her idol's signature moves, i know those traits are more or less overshadowed by the miriad of mecha references she have, tough.

Stll, taking into account ViVid's taste for the "shonen fight" sub-genre i'm not be surprised if Tribeca in fact results to be a nod to Sakura.

ZeroIchiNi

2010-11-17, 19:56

It's curious because Nanoha already have a semi-Shout Out to Sakura Kasugano in Subaru Nakajima, her design losely reminds me of her(specially her short hair with that headband), she fangirls over an older main character(Nanoha), worn similar clothes(the upper part of her barrier jacket is designed from Nanoha's Agressive Mode) and also have a weaker(or in this case "shorter") version of one of her idol's signature moves, i know those traits are more or less overshadowed by the miriad of mecha references she have, tough.

Stll, taking into account ViVid's taste for the "shonen fight" sub-genre i'm not be surprised if Tribeca in fact results to be a nod to Sakura.

I thought so too. one of the Strikers poster showed Subaru in the same pose that Sakura does.

GenjiChan

2010-11-17, 21:15

Nya~n

2010-11-17, 21:20

not that can of worms again...

Nanya01

2010-11-17, 21:20

Question please.... l was just wondering, base on what l'm seeing and reading in the manga, doujinshi, and anime, adpataton..... Is Nanoha a lesbian or has some any lesbian relationship???? No, offense, l'm just seeing many anime characters being link to her...

Regardless of what the NanoFate community will tell you.

No.

Nanoha is NOT a lesbian. Then again, she's not confirmed to be straight either. She could be straight, gay or bi. We don't know.

She is not in any sort of romantic relationship with anyone, just friends.

In fact, the only confirmed pairings in this series have been completely heterosexual.

Demi.

2010-11-17, 21:22

Yasanagi

2010-11-17, 21:33

Demi.

2010-11-17, 21:39

They wont ever confirm her to be straight because it's not what most fans want, and they're probably not going to confirm her a lesbian because if they ever do, fans would expect them to relish on this aspect more and less on the pewpew...And Tsuzuki only knows how to pewpew.

That's what I think, at least. However, Fate's got the hots for Nanoha...:D

Nanya01

2010-11-17, 21:45

Nightengale

2010-11-17, 21:45

Sometimes, an illusion is far more beautiful as one.

Look at Venus de Milo for example.

Moczo

2010-11-17, 21:50

So why does Seven Arcs continue to be coy on this? Are they that afraid of moral backlash if they officially out Nanoha's sexual preferences? Or is it because they want to try and keep their hooks in the purses of the Yuunoha fans?

Hooks. Soooooo much hooks. Not just the Yuunoha fans, the NanoFate fans too... nothing makes fans get bored of a relationship faster than taking the 'Will-They-Won't-They' out and confirming it.

mielipuoli

2010-11-17, 21:50

Sometimes, an illusion is far more beautiful as one.
Truer words, Nightengale.

Kaijo

2010-11-17, 21:53

Contrary to popular belief, not every series has to have people pair up. There are people who are perfectly happy being single.

So why does Seven Arcs continue to be coy on this? Are they that afraid of moral backlash if they officially out Nanoha's sexual preferences? Or is it because they want to try and keep their hooks in the purses of the Yuunoha fans?

No moral backlash. Keep in mind that Cardcaptor Sakura and Sailor Moon both preceded Nanoha. CCS had gay and lesbian relationships, and even a kid with a teacher. Sailor Moon had a lesbian relationship between two of the sailors. And they both aired during normal hours.

Nanoha aired much later at night, so if they wanted to do a lesbian relationship, they wouldn't have had any problems. So why don't they? There are several possible reasons:

1. My main theory is that the focus of Nanoha has always been about family and familial relationships. Not only that, but ad hoc family makups, as if to say, "These are all valid ways to be a family, and none of them need to rely on romantic relationships." In fact, a romantic relationship would detract from the family aspects. So Nanoha and Fate are more sisterly than anything else, and when Nanoha adopts Vivio, Fate also steps in to help because she's Nanoha's best friend and likes children.

2. Trolling the fandom. They probably get a kick out of putting in subtext, teasing various shippers with material, and then jerking it away. Like Nanoha and Yuuno talking and blushing, and then he disappears. Or Nanoha and Fate seemingly becoming two mommies, and then Fate says she wants to take long term missions to not interfere in Nanoha's family. So if you let yourself get jerked, you only have yourself to blame.

3. They probably planned Nanoha/Yuuno from early on(you can tell by how Yuuno openly feels about her early on), then saw Fate's fanbase grow huge, and that fanbase preferred Nanoha/Fate. They want to sell stuff, so they decided, "Well, if we can't do Nanoha/Yuuno, we just won't do any main character pairing, so as to milk these guys for their cash." It's almost a subset of trolling, but more like a change of plans. If this is what they truly intend, then when Nanoha finally winds down, you'll see her shack up with Yuuno at the end. This is further supported by the only romantic pairings being heterosexual, so odds are the creators don't particularly like lesbian relationships, so they only ever hint at the possibility at most.

Based on this, my advice is to just don't get too emotionally involved in pairings. Focus on the story and the family relationships, because otherwise you'll just end up a rabid fanatic and/or end up disappointed.

You can partly see this with Vivid and Force. Vivid seems made to pander to the Yuri fans... and yet no yuri is taking place at all. Force seems to be the real continuation, which has a more intense plot... and the only new romantic relationship is heterosexual.

Remember, Tsuzuki is a fan of Super Robot Wars. Nanoha is really a shounen/mecha series, where the girls are substituted for giant robots. Giant robots don't get it on with each other; at best, it's a Nekama-like (unless it's Idolmaster Xenoglossia... >.>)

Edit:

#4. I agree with the hooks. The "Will-they-or-won't-they" feeling, to suspense, keeps people watching just for the small chance that maybe, just maybe, Elmer Fudd will catch that wascally wabbit this time. Or the coyote will catch the roadrunner. It's a trick as old as time, and is why so many romance manga end when the couple finally hooks up. It's the hope that precedes that, that keeps people watching.

Nya~n

2010-11-17, 22:57

Giant robots don't get it on with each other;

*looks at the jokes made of Nadleeh stripping off its Virtue armour for the Dynames to use its big long gun skillfully...*

What?

Nanya01

2010-11-17, 22:59

Giant robots don't get it on with each other;

SHHH! Don't tell Ryusei that!

DezoPenguin

2010-11-17, 23:21

Yasanagi

2010-11-17, 23:31

... so they only ship NanoFate because Nanoha is a placeholder until the technology to insert themselves into the anime and claim their 'waif' is created?

Blank-Mage

2010-11-17, 23:44

When that technology is invented, the world is doomed. No one would ever want to live in the real world again.

Nanya01

2010-11-17, 23:50

... so they only ship NanoFate because Nanoha is a placeholder until the technology to insert themselves into the anime and claim their 'waif' is created?

They want Holodecks?

Kagayaki

2010-11-18, 00:25

And don't forget the otaku demographics discussion from over in the image thread recently--there are darned good reasons directly related to Seven Arcs' ability to sell DVDs and movie tickets and CDs and figures and body pillows and other stuff why pairing off moe main characters with anybody in a non-romance series is a bad plan. Waaaaay to many Japanese (read: "paying customer") fans OTP is "Myself/Fate."

... so they only ship NanoFate because Nanoha is a placeholder until the technology to insert themselves into the anime and claim their 'waif' is created?

Yeah, that technology would pretty much lead to downfall of civilization as we know it :heh:

However, I think what Dezo is saying is that since romance is sort of secondary to the main plot in Nanoha, they've realized it can be better to have NO canon pairings whatsoever involving moe characters. (If Nanoha was a placeholder, NanoFate would be canon.) This way these characters are still officially "single", and still can become waifus of fans without breaking a canon pairing. Yeah, it's a weird industry :eyespin:.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-18, 00:40

2. Trolling the fandom. They probably get a kick out of putting in subtext, teasing various shippers with material, and then jerking it away. Like Nanoha and Yuuno talking and blushing, and then he disappears. Or Nanoha and Fate seemingly becoming two mommies, and then Fate says she wants to take long term missions to not interfere in Nanoha's family. So if you let yourself get jerked, you only have yourself to blame.

I'm not that interested on pairings in Nanoha, but i still feel very dissapointed and become rabid and fanatic over a character(Signum) not for any "romantic" feeling but for another reasons, still i hold this point as true and i'm the only one to blame. Tsuzuki is a troll indeed.

Based on this, my advice is to just don't get too emotionally involved in pairings. Focus on the story and the family relationships, because otherwise you'll just end up a rabid fanatic and/or end up disappointed.

Yup, pretty much part of my recovery is to stop thinking of "Signum the invincible legend" and more on "Signum the Cool Big Sister of the Wolkenritter" with all the hype over her sliced to shreds i've started to watch over other aspects of her character and i hope that at least that be Tsuzuki's plan, to explore the new more human and vulnerable Signum.

When that technology is invented, the world is doomed. No one would ever want to live in the real world again.

Like Chobits xD!

NorthernFallout

2010-11-18, 02:56

Marketing strategy. They know it sells in multitude, and they will keep it that way until it doesn't work anymore. If they go either way they'll potentially lose money. Business thinking.

Sheba

2010-11-18, 05:01

Akiyoshi

2010-11-18, 05:07

FlameSparkZ

2010-11-18, 09:32

*reads Force 11*
*notices "I've had more than my share of dealing with crying children!"*

Oh noes! Nanoha is going to befriend Thoma! >_>

Akiyoshi

2010-11-18, 11:16

Oh noes! Nanoha is going to befriend Thoma! >_>

Nah, i think it's too soon for that, probably something would interfere their battle near the climax.

Sheba

2010-11-18, 11:25

I remember similar incidents over Haruhi's Endless Eight xDU.

The difference is that Endless Eight did not have "the virginity of animu waifu at stake". Endless Eight's flak resulted from KyoAny deciding to animate the same chapter EIGHT times.

Scarletknive

2010-11-18, 11:38

*reads Force 11*
*notices "I've had more than my share of dealing with crying children!"*

Oh noes! Nanoha is going to befriend Thoma! >_>

*thinks of Vivio* NO! Please!! Not "that" again!! PLEASE!!!!

Kaijo

2010-11-18, 11:53

They may also know that confirming any pairing will get a sickening category of otakus in arms and they will lose money. Those otaku are the "MAI WAIFU" otaku, the kind who burn Kannagi manga and issue death threats.

Yep. It's ironic that zealots pretty much have their goal defeated, simply because they are zealots. If no one would freak out and let the story play out, perhaps they'd actually get what they want.

As for Thoma, Nanoha is going to get through to him, telling him that trying to sacrifice himself is only going to make Subaru sad. He'll tell her to go away, and she'll say she won't, that she will keep trying as hard as she can.

Cue Thoma rethinking things, the Huck possibly interfering (or getting somewhat moved by her "It doesn't matter who you are, because family is important" speech), and for a moment, it'll seem like everything will work out.

Then the real big bads behind this will pop out and attempt to claim Thoma (most likely succeeding). This will actually unite the Hucks and our heroes in an uneasy alliance, or at least they'll agree to kinda leave each other alone to get him back, because they both recognize the threat.

Bonta Kun

2010-11-18, 12:10

Yep. It's ironic that zealots pretty much have their goal defeated, simply because they are zealots. If no one would freak out and let the story play out, perhaps they'd actually get what they want.

As for Thoma, Nanoha is going to get through to him, telling him that trying to sacrifice himself is only going to make Subaru sad. He'll tell her to go away, and she'll say she won't, that she will keep trying as hard as she can.

Cue Thoma rethinking things, the Huck possibly interfering (or getting somewhat moved by her "It doesn't matter who you are, because family is important" speech), and for a moment, it'll seem like everything will work out.

Then the real big bads behind this will pop out and attempt to claim Thoma (most likely succeeding). This will actually unite the Hucks and our heroes in an uneasy alliance, or at least they'll agree to kinda leave each other alone to get him back, because they both recognize the threat.

lol thats like soooooo cliche yet you can see it happening and not moan about it cause it would done in such a fashion that makes it great.
Plus would show us some interactions between the 2 factions which I think would be pretty amusing:heh:

So question is when will that other guy that was chasing Touma but seemingly got blown away appear at that perfect moment to stop Nanoha?;)

Akiyoshi

2010-11-18, 12:12

Then the real big bads behind this will pop out and attempt to claim Thoma (most likely succeeding). This will actually unite the Hucks and our heroes in an uneasy alliance, or at least they'll agree to kinda leave each other alone to get him back, because they both recognize the threat.

I was about to express my disagreement with this but then i think on how interesting will be if the Huckebeins betray said alliance when they think it's convenient(when they think Tohma is secured i guess) leaving our heroes on a very tight situation and effectively cementing their status as ruthless villains.

amauterr

2010-11-18, 12:34

Actually i don't think that Hucks will interfere cause the would have their own problems aka Hayate=).They can bring up again some problems with equipment(with Fortress for example).

Tiresias

2010-11-18, 12:54

I blame Moczo for this train of thought, but I can't shake the suspicion then when the battles gets intense and all sides became preoccupied, then the [INSERT EVIL SCIENTIST GROUP NAME HERE] will begin their move, finally setting the main story into motion :D

Unlike Kaijo though, I don't believe that it would result in an alliance, but a melee-a-trois, or even more extreme the sudden defeat of Huckebein (not by 'fair' means, mind you) while Section 6 also got badly mauled. Or maybe the Hucks would retreat following the unfavorable situation, prolonging the three-way conflict for a while...

Nanya01

2010-11-18, 13:02

Tiresias

2010-11-18, 13:10

You're suggesting a SRW plot where bad guy after bad guy shows up and the only reason that the heroes aren't beaten is because the bad guys don't work together.

Actually, what I meant is that the only reason the heroes aren't beaten is because they're actually some kind of super secret TSAB Black Ops who illegally experiments with ancient and forbidden techs for the betterment of the TSAB and doesn't want to actually kill the Aces, only preventing them from interfering with their plans.

New crazy idea: They're the ones who actually secretly pitted Section 6 against Huckebein to cover-up a failed experiment.

00-Raiser

2010-11-18, 14:10

Cue Thoma rethinking things, the Huck possibly interfering (or getting somewhat moved by her "It doesn't matter who you are, because family is important" speech), and for a moment, it'll seem like everything will work out.

You forget that the book is out of the control and is stuck in autodefense mode. Unless they can do something about that, Thoma doesn't really have much of a choice in the matter. It'll just attack anyone who gets close to him, friendly or not.

You're suggesting a SRW plot where bad guy after bad guy shows up and the only reason that the heroes aren't beaten is because the bad guys don't work together.

That's not entirely true. OG2, clusterfuck of enemy factions as it is, has several of them team up at various points. Of course considering they're evil, much backstabbing ensues.

Kaijo

2010-11-18, 14:39

You forget that the book is out of the control and is stuck in autodefense mode. Unless they can do something about that, Thoma doesn't really have much of a choice in the matter. It'll just attack anyone who gets close to him, friendly or not.

Possibly. But we don't know how how fully Thoma might be able to control it if he puts his will into it. If it is more like the Book of Darkness, Nanoha will simply have to blast it with everything she's got so Thoma can separate himself from the bad part (like Hayate did with the defense program).

Either way, I expect a Nanoha speech, and a Nanoha blasting, heh.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-18, 16:07

Either way, I expect a Nanoha speech, and a Nanoha blasting, heh.

True, if we return back to A's Nanoha didn't beat Reinforce but still her courageous blasting helps to give time to Hayate to finally take control.

Bonta Kun

2010-11-18, 16:18

True, if we return back to A's Nanoha didn't beat Reinforce but still her courageous blasting helps to give time to Hayate to finally take control.

yea altho that was back then now she can just blast away to get her own point across:D

Justin_Brett

2010-11-18, 16:39

00-Raiser

2010-11-18, 17:25

Section 6 and the Hucks working together would be terrible. The two groups have almost nothing in common. Plus there's seemingly nothing the former could do to keep the latter from saying they had their fingers crossed all along at a crucial moment.

Oh it's possible. If it's in the best interest of the family, I'm sure they'd have no problem teaming up with Hayate and co. Perhaps those scientists have a way to neutralize the divider abilities, causing the Hucks to require assistance from the Section 6 to take on their common foe.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Afterwards though, who can say?

... 5 minute head start?

Kaijo

2010-11-18, 17:43

Oh it's possible. If it's in the best interest of the family, I'm sure they'd have no problem teaming up with Hayate and co. Perhaps those scientists have a way to neutralize the divider abilities, causing the Hucks to require assistance from the Section 6 to take on their common foe.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Afterwards though, who can say?

... 5 minute head start?

Nice JLU reference, heh. Yeah, I pretty much agree. If the Huck's do team up (to protect and save Thoma, as they consider him one of their family), it's quite possible they could make deals, but go back on them afterward (fingers crossed!). Then again, Nanoha and Section Six could impress them with their own devotion to family, especially at the way they'd both be linked by Thoma (Hucks and Subaru).

Akiyoshi

2010-11-18, 18:05

And don't forget Tohma's new small family(Lily, Isis and, why not, Steed).

Random Wanderer

2010-11-19, 07:31

Discussion from a few days ago, but I've not been paying attention recently, so forgive me please for feeling like I have something to say in regards to it...

How significant though, is a support-type device's help towards the performance of a mage?

We've seen that well-tuned Intelligent Devices really, really make a world of difference towards the average performance of a mage, evident by the jump of ease in Subaru and Teana's handling of magic in StrikerS. But that may not be the case for Einhart/Vivio's kind, whom are more 'hands-on' with their magic.

Besides, Rule of Rival demands that in tournaments, the rival must always be +1 compared to the hero(ine), so that the growth experienced in every match adds up to a chance of defeating that +1 advantage.

One thing I think is worth mentioning is that, with one or two possible exceptions, every other mage we've seen so far has been dependent on their device to create their barrier jacket or armor. In fact, Nanoha and Fate spent some time unarmored in the middle of the attack on the TSAB Headquarters because they didn't have their devices. Einhart, however, has been able to create her armor without using a device, which has to take some serious concentration on her part. Having a device that can take over that part at least should allow her to focus more completely on the fights she's in.

Really, Einhart has impressed me greatly with the things she's accomplished on her own. She is one determined kid.

Jimmy C

2010-11-19, 07:56

One thing to note is that Einhart doesn't want the Device to boost her power much. She's looking forward to using her fighting skills to win her matches.

Justin_Brett

2010-11-19, 08:12

I don't see how the scientists would be able to mind a Divider Negater when they can't even manage to get one working properly on its own.

And to look at it another way, why would the Hucks accept the help of people they're treating as pests at the very most? Even if that weren't the case, they're a pretty independent group; might not accept help either way.

Kaijo

2010-11-19, 12:03

I don't see how the scientists would be able to mind a Divider Negater when they can't even manage to get one working properly on its own.

The scientists might have been responsible for most, if not all, the Huck's. So, in that sense, they have been able to get Dividers working. It might have just been Lily that they were having trouble with, considering she's the only human plug.

And to look at it another way, why would the Hucks accept the help of people they're treating as pests at the very most? Even if that weren't the case, they're a pretty independent group; might not accept help either way.

If a bad scientist group shows up, odds are they have some trump card against the Hucks, if the Hucks are their creation. Another thing to note is that Hayate seems about ready to shoot down the Huck's ship, which might mean the Hucks have no choice but to use the Wolfram for transportation to go after Thoma.

And the Section Six group would probably make it clear: "We're going after Thoma. You can help by sharing what you know."

Hucks: "We're going to, because Thoma is part of OUR family!"

Subaru: "He's part of MY family, too!"

Fortis: "This argument is getting us nowhere. I suggest the only option we have is to work together, and both go after Thoma, before they use him for great damage."

Hayate: "Fine. But you take orders from me. One false move, and we won't hesitate to bring you down."

Fortis: *smiling* "Agreed."

Justin_Brett

2010-11-19, 12:29

And then anyone who doesn't like them gets upset.

Tiresias

2010-11-19, 12:41

Justin_Brett

2010-11-19, 12:50

I'd say 'terrorist' is a bit much. If people have to investigate to know it was you who did all that stuff, you're not really actively trying to create terror.

Tiresias

2010-11-19, 12:57

I'd say 'terrorist' is a bit much. If people have to investigate to know it was you who did all that stuff, you're not really actively trying to create terror.

Hmm, well, I somewhat suspect that aside from sating their blood lust, all the killings are also to deter any potential enemies while the Hucks try to find/make their place in the world. But yeah, maybe it's a bit too early to call them terrorists. Mass murderers would be a more apt definition.

Kaijo

2010-11-19, 13:19

Hmmm, I'm not convinced. A truce is one thing, but an alliance? I don't think Fortis is that naive to not suspect the potential "5 minute head start" trick...sure, he thinks Touma (In the end, Tohma is just too much for me) is potentially family, but he doesn't really know him yet. Rather than risk losing all what he fights for here (hey, terrorist have causes you know!), better to retreat and fight another day. Especially if he absolutely no intel regarding the hypothetical third party, since charging blindly is just stupid.

As I said, this depends on Hayate shooting down their ship. They may not be able to retreat if that happens (and it's over the ocean, currently, which is why Hayate has decided to do this now).

00-Raiser

2010-11-19, 13:27

Hmmm, I'm not convinced. A truce is one thing, but an alliance? I don't think Fortis is that naive to not suspect the potential "5 minute head start" trick...sure, he thinks Touma (In the end, Tohma is just too much for me) is potentially family, but he doesn't really know him yet. Rather than risk losing all what he fights for here (hey, terrorist have causes you know!), better to retreat and fight another day. Especially if he absolutely no intel regarding the hypothetical third party, since charging blindly is just stupid.

Only he's already shown he's willing to put his ass on the line for Thoma's sake. Instead of just retreating when their ship was able to teleport again, both Arnage and Deville were sent after Thoma. If they weren't willing to risk everything for Thoma, they'd already be gone by now.

I think by agreeing to let Fate, Erio, Subaru, Isis and Lily go, the Hucks have shown they are willing to make consessions.

Random Wanderer

2010-11-19, 13:37

Fortis: "This argument is getting us nowhere. I suggest the only option we have is to work together, and both go after Thoma, before they use him for great damage."

A point of note: I rather doubt Fortis cares in the slightest if Touma is used to cause great harm. They've already shown their willingness to kill on a large scale, and their complete lack of concern for anyone who isn't one of them. Plus the heroes all KNOW that the Hucks don't care, and so they'd know right off that Fortis is lying to them.

Tiresias

2010-11-19, 13:39

Only he's already shown he's willing to put his ass on the line for Thoma's sake. Instead of just retreating when their ship was able to teleport again, both Arnage and Deville were sent after Thoma. If they weren't willing to risk everything for Thoma, they'd already be gone by now.

Yes, but at the time neither side has the advantage; both were struck by Zero Divider and neither combatants have been proven superior against their opponents, so there's still a chance to salvage victory, which in this case is Touma.

The retreat I mention was referring to the speculation that a Third Party might intervene during the fight. If by then their ship can still teleport, depending on the situation it would be wiser because now there would be simply too many variables to factor into the equation. There's a limit to how much a man would risk, especially since he also has the survival of his other family members to consider.

Besides, Huckebein may care for Touma, but I doubt that he's everything to them...

I think by agreeing to let Fate, Erio, Subaru, Isis and Lily go, the Hucks have shown they are willing to make consessions.

Like I said; truce? Maybe. Alliance? Unlikely. They might stop aiming at each others throats, but suddenly working together? Too risky for each side.

Kaijo

2010-11-19, 13:42

A point of note: I rather doubt Fortis cares in the slightest if Touma is used to cause great harm. They've already shown their willingness to kill on a large scale, and their complete lack of concern for anyone who isn't one of them. Plus the heroes all KNOW that the Hucks don't care, and so they'd know right off that Fortis is lying to them.

I would disagree. Based on things said by both Fortis and Veyron, they don't like to kill unnecessarily. You're free to figure out why that is, but at the very least, if Thoma is used to cause a lot of damage, it'll throw that much more attention and hate towards the Hucks. Could also mean they have some morals, because they do seem to care about each other as a family; one that they'd really like Thoma to join because he is one of them.

Random Wanderer

2010-11-19, 14:08

I would disagree. Based on things said by both Fortis and Veyron, they don't like to kill unnecessarily.

What they SAY is irrelevant. What they DO is what matters, and chapter 2, pages 6, 7, 8, and 9 illustrates my point rather graphically. You don't commit mass-murder and turn a town into a smoking crater if you care about not causing harm and about preventing "unneccesary" killing. Also Veryron's complaint about Touma "forcing" him to kill the nuns was total BS. He could have waiting OUTSIDE the church and had no problem. Heck, he could probably have waited inside so long as he didn't show off his gun.

The Huckebain's excuses are nothing BUT excuses. Their actions have showed their words to be lies.

Nanya01

2010-11-19, 14:13

What they SAY is irrelevant. What they DO is what matters, and chapter 2, pages 6, 7, 8, and 9 illustrates my point rather graphically. You don't commit mass-murder and turn a town into a smoking crater if you care about not causing harm and about preventing "unneccesary" killing. Also Veryron's complaint about Touma "forcing" him to kill the nuns was total BS. He could have waiting OUTSIDE the church and had no problem. Heck, he could probably have waited inside so long as he didn't show off his gun.

The Huckebain's excuses are nothing BUT excuses. Their actions have showed their words to be lies.

They need to kill to survive.

It's quite possible that Veyron was running out of time and needed to kill to keep his life going.

So, I don't think that everything they say is lies.

If they wanted to, they could have had Stella shoot the RF6 ship down, there wouldn't be much that could be done to stop it. They could have killed the group that infiltrated the ship, but they didn't.

So, there's some truth to their words, regardless of what people seems to think.

Random Wanderer

2010-11-19, 14:34

If they wanted to, they could have had Stella shoot the RF6 ship down, there wouldn't be much that could be done to stop it.

Since when? We haven't seen any sign that she can do anything of the sort.

They could have killed the group that infiltrated the ship, but they didn't.
They failed to kill the assault team despite trying during the fight, and after Touma Divide/Zeroed everyone, no they in fact COULDN'T kill anyone, since they were just as disabled as the heroes. They agreed to let the team go because Touma told them to, and they wanted to get on his good side. And because he would have hit them AGAIN if they didn't.

So, there's some truth to their words, regardless of what people seems to think.
I didn't say everything they say is a lie, but they have been lying several times throughout the manga. Lies interspersed with truths can be more effective than just a solid pack of lies.

aers

2010-11-19, 14:52

なのはtype (http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E9%AD%94%E6%B3%95%E5%B0%91%E5%A5%B3%E3%83%AA%E3%8 3%AA%E3%82%AB%E3%83%AB%E3%81%AA%E3%81%AE%E3%81%AFt ype-%E3%82%BF%E3%82%A4%E3%83%97-2011%E5%B9%B4-01%E6%9C%88%E5%8F%B7-%E9%9B%91%E8%AA%8C/dp/B004CFGQGQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1290196281&sr=8-1) is now listed over at Amazon with a huge picture of the cover. The cover lists a Nanoha History section so maybe we'll get an actual timeline.

00-Raiser

2010-11-19, 14:54

Hm? I don't recall the Hucks lying about anything. In fact, they've been a little too honest about everything.

Anyways, the fact that their SOP in regards to the Bureau is to "shake them off" rather than "shoot them out of the sky" speaks volumes. Other persuing battleships didn't have anti-eclipse use physical weapons, so the Hucks could have made quick work of them, eliminating enemies they might have to face again in the future. But they didn't.

Nanya01

2010-11-19, 15:02

Since when? We haven't seen any sign that she can do anything of the sort.

Considering Cypha can fire beams that nearly killed Agito from her sword, Veyron almost broke Subaru's arm, Fortis and his insane strength, Heavyarms-tan in Arnage, I think that Stella shooting down a ship wouldn't be too hard.

Justin_Brett

2010-11-19, 15:10

Nanya01

2010-11-19, 15:29

You crush a soda can, pushing the top and bottom together then making it into a small ball like he did.

Aluminum is surprisingly tough, especially when it's a cylinder (strongest shape in nature, seriously, you CAN stab a straw into an orange.).

Here's a little information for ya.

Using just your hands, you'll find that it's VERY hard to actually crush anything that's round, like pop cans or eggs.

I've done both, not crush a can to a ball, but I've crushed a can with my hands, and an egg in my hands, but it was hard as hell. And I've stood on one before, and it held me up for several seconds.

Fortis did it casually.

Kaijo

2010-11-19, 15:35

So they'll let people who actively come to hunt them down en masse go, but murder people who've ostensibly done nothing to them? Are you sure that's really a positive personality trait?

It doesn't have to be positive; it just has to be the way they are. Yes, they are some strange folk, but there is a bit of a twisted logic in it. Remember, they care about their family, first and foremost, and once you realize that, the rest of their actions will soon start to make sense.

Tiresias

2010-11-19, 15:38

So they'll let people who actively come to hunt them down en masse go, but murder people who've ostensibly done nothing to them? Are you sure that's really a positive personality trait?

Also, I find it odd how Fortis is reputed to have superhuman strength because he was able to crush a soda can.

That's...an interesting view point. The hucks massacre civilians because they see them as helpless cattle, but prefer not to taunt the military too much because they can actually fight back, albeit eventually?

And yeah, one soda can and he's suddenly insanely powerful? For non-magical earthlings maybe. I bet the Numbers can do that all the time, super-cyborg strength and all. He's probably strong, yes, but not THAT strong.

Considering Cypha can fire beams that nearly killed Agito from her sword, Veyron almost broke Subaru's arm, Fortis and his insane strength, Heavyarms-tan in Arnage, I think that Stella shooting down a ship wouldn't be too hard.

I think Huckebein not gunning down Wolfram was less based on mercy and more on pragmatism. Just like Mithril of FMP(or Sovereign from Mass Effect, for those repulsed by the idea of comparing Huckebein to Mithril), they may have superior tech, but they are not invincible and aremassively outnumbered; that's why even now, they're playing safe by only attacking civilians and then swiftly escaping.

Destroying a warship, on the other hand, would tempt- no, oblige the TSAB to throw everything at them. The Hucks might be able to score early victories, but with the entire TSAB screaming "Remember the Wolfram", hunting them down with mass produced AEC's, they WILL eventually lose. And that's discounting the fact that the TSAB still has the Arc-n-Ciel; if it's really as powerful as it claims (destroys everything inside the sphere of destruction)...

Justin_Brett

2010-11-19, 15:42

Didn't they specifically say there were also TSAB Agents at those colonies that got wiped out? I'd say that's taunting the military a little bit.

Tiresias

2010-11-19, 15:47

Didn't they specifically say there were also TSAB Agents at those colonies that got wiped out? I'd say that's taunting the military a little bit.

A bit, yes. Agents dying, while undoubtly sad, is more common than, say, having a multi-crewed warship destroyed. Common criminal organizations may be able to kill an agent, but shoot down an airship?

And of course, that's potentially another reason the case files managed to get to Central Command instead of just local cops in the first place.

Key Board

2010-11-19, 15:50

Considering Cypha can fire beams that nearly killed Agito from her sword, Veyron almost broke Subaru's arm, Fortis and his insane strength, Heavyarms-tan in Arnage, I think that Stella shooting down a ship wouldn't be too hard.

Attempting to attack would expose herself.

She would be sniped down.

Justin_Brett

2010-11-19, 15:55

Well, the TSAB would probably have the sense to doubt that any ordinary criminal organization is in the habit of completely destroying small towns containing nothing of value. Sort of a dead giveaway that something's going on.

00-Raiser

2010-11-19, 16:05

Nothing of apparent value, anyways. From the dialouge I got the impression that they're guns for hire. They'll do whatever job they're given and if that job involves taking out some defector hiding out in a little village, well... Eliminating witnesses would be necessary killing.

Akiyoshi

2010-11-19, 23:58

Anyways, the fact that their SOP in regards to the Bureau is to "shake them off" rather than "shoot them out of the sky" speaks volumes. Other persuing battleships didn't have anti-eclipse use physical weapons, so the Hucks could have made quick work of them, eliminating enemies they might have to face again in the future. But they didn't.

Then apparently Cypha was absent during the discussion of that course of action, she have no qualms on killing Signum(she doesen't know that she survives and as for now Signum is dead for her), who proves to be more than a match and an enemy she will be face in the future, still that didn't stop her to deal the killing blow.

They could have killed the group that infiltrated the ship, but they didn't.

They failed to kill the assault team despite trying during the fight, and after Touma Divide/Zeroed everyone, no they in fact COULDN'T kill anyone, since they were just as disabled as the heroes. They agreed to let the team go because Touma told them to, and they wanted to get on his good side. And because he would have hit them AGAIN if they didn't.

This. If they allow the assault team to leave is because Tohma practically has them gunpointed, threatening them with shooting the Divide Zero again(and again, a little CMOA for Tohma, Fortis face is priceless xD).

OK, Arnage is the most successful attempts to make a sympathetic Huckebein so far and Veyron follow her closely, but the rest of them aran't that lucky(Fortis is a cruel and ruthless gentleman, Cypha's a monster, we don't know anything about Deville yet and Stella is portrayed as a Kawaiko but i find her just plain creepy), is difficult to pose an argument because at this point is difficult to see what exactly Tsuzuki want to do with this guys, one second they talk about family and have "fun" moments, and 5 seconds later they're become horrid assasins in a manner so drastically that confuses me, i'm suppossed to like these guys or hate them?

Besides, about the "alliance" thing like i said it will be a nice touch to see the Huckebein betraying Section Six when their own objetives are secured, we already know that they're only nice between them, everyone else is used tissue paper for them.