View Full Version : Kanon - Speculation & Theories (for first time viewers)
This thread is aimed at first time viewers of Kanon and its purpose is to allow spoiler free speculation and theories to be aired. Having them in a central location may help focus the discussion instead of spreading speculation over the various episode discussion threads. If you are knowledgeable of either the original series and/or the game, then please do not post in this thread (use the Kanon - Spoilers & Speculation thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=38369)) and do not give away any spoilers!
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Personal theories, speculation, guesses and such. No spoiler tags required.
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Any form of spoiler from the 2002 Kanon series.
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Finally, please remain on-topic and do not use this thread if it's just discussion about the current or previous episodes. If you want to speculate or theorize over jam, be it Akiko's or otherwise, please post in the What the heck is in Akiko's jam!? (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=37879) thread :)
My guess is that Ayu was a shinigami who came to claim Yuuichi, saw the Taiyaki stand and couldn't take it; cried because she was so hungry. Later, when the boy she was supposed to take bought her Tayaki, she became indebted to him. Oh, she lost her deathnote.
~~~
Okay sorry, xris, serious now. Lets see.. sad girls in snow.
As far as I know, two of the girls are not from the human world. Makoto doesnt (edit: didn't. heh heh) know what a pron magazine is. Ayu doesnt know what a cellphone is (I'm not too sure about Mai yet).
I think that Ayu is an angel. What she has to do with Yuuichi, I really can't guess, but since shes looking for something she lost, I can only presume that something would be a link to her past (seeing that she was asking for the cakeshop that wasnt there anymore). She lost something in the past, and shes still looking for it. Its as if she jumped the gap between past and present. Also, for some reason, only Yuuichi can find it for her, or what she lost is mysteriously connected to Yuuichi.
Its obvious Makoto is not a human, but the question is what is the cause of her hatred? Did Yuuichi do something to her, to her parents, or her pack, or her home? Maybe it has something to do with that barley field that gave way to the School. Then again unlikely, Makoto walked into the school. Then again, she has amnesia. Then again, it should trigger something.
Mai. Nagato Yuki Mai. A demon hunter, roving the school with a katana. And she knows what Makoto really is. She's not a normal girl, duh, but theres really too little I know about her to make a speculation. She's got a friend in Sayuri, which is interesting, because shes the kind of girl noone would friend. Going totally off-course, and despite what Yuuichi thinks, I'll say Sayuri knows about about Mai's secret; and is somehow connected to it.
Then theres Nayuki. From the dream sequence at the start of each episode: Did Yuuichi kill/horribly injure her? Or did she kill/horribly injure Yuuichi? From that sequence, it all takes place in a forested area, the forest next to a barley field?
Kaori. She has trouble at home. Its complicated. I don't know.
Shiori. Sick girl in snow, who doesnt seem to have an older brother. She finds herself irresistably drawn to Yuuichi, and in one episode, was standing in snow to meet someone unknown. Unless that who she wanted to meet was Yuuichi. Except for this attraction to Yuuichi, I'm buying her normal-girl-with-a-cold story, so far.
Really, all this is just a mess to piece together. One question tho, can the stories of all the girls be pieced together? As in, are they all related to each other?
You probably already realise that the above is all just crap really.
So, is this a 1st timers thread (speculate only) or the old-timers thread (spoil away)? Totally confused now.
Deathkillz
2006-11-05, 11:50
You probably already realise that the above is all just crap really.
oh yea its all obvious bull that runs around in circles :p
j/k btw ;)
heres my take on each of the charaters it soo far...
ayu ~ shes a strange little girl...so far weve only really seen her:
1) smashing into yuuichi
2) falling over
3) eating/stealing Taiyaki
4) say uguu a lot ^_^
but on a serious note she doesnt seem ot have a home...she is always wearing the same clothes and she doesnt look as old for her age compared with the other...
she remembers yuuichi as being a friend in the past but yuuichi doesnt remeber a dam thing...childhood friends? possible strong spiritual connection?
nayuki ~ she seems normal enough...so far not much of her has been revealed apart from that she is a sweet gentle cousin of yuuichi...that cannot wake up even if a bomb went of next to her :heh:
makoto ~ obviously have an eternal grudge against yuuichi...for reasons unknown cause surprise surprise she has also lost her past memory :p
but for some reason yuuichi loves to pick on her and play pranks...he turns immature and a bully around makoto...but this could be fate :rolleyes
the tip that mai gives to yuuichi brings about impending doom...prepare a box of tissues...
Shiori ~ like nayuki not mush about shiori has been said atm...all we know is that shes a sickly girl that likes to wander around school grounds in nothing but a shirt and a blanket...can she seriously be that sick? i mean a normal person will freeze to death nevermind one who already has a cold...
i expect her to have a complex story like the other girls and as speculation can she even feel the cold?
mai ~ ahh the demon hunter with powers beyond mortals :p she seems to be quite tough and have the emotions of a rock...but i can care to speculate that she wasnt like that in her younger years...some event must have happened that turned her into some that she is now...silent and emotionless...
yuuichi is trying his best to get her o be more open and i can honestly say i hope it works...
she also seem to have the powers to see into someone...makoto?
and again this is totally speculation/bull crap :heh:
Deathkillz
2006-11-05, 11:52
So, is this a 1st timers thread (speculate only) or the old-timers thread (spoil away)? Totally confused now.
first timers!! tbh if the oldies say anything it will pretty much spoil a lot of things >.< and ofc it will be hard for 2nd timers to lie about the situations in the first place...
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-05, 12:40
FPB, that was a great description of both of them! Those two are adorable really, they can share my No. 1 spot.
I try :heh:
The speculation thread got shut down, and I feel like I'm going to explode if I don't get this off my chest:
Ayu: Some people said she might be an angel. Possible, but I doubt it. Probably does have real wings tucked up somewhere, though. I think that she's not human, but even she's not aware of this (yet). I was thinking 'android,' but she actually looks much smaller in the past, so that probably won't pan out.
Makoto: Fox. Pretty obvious to me, but I don't know how everyone else feels about it.
Mai: Insufficient data.
Sayuri: Really insufficient data.
Kaori: Insufficient data.
Shiori: The girl with the plan. What is that plan, exactly? Who knows. I bet it's something epic, though.
Nayuki: She seems fairly normal. The fact that she's related to Yuuichi more or less rules out any non-human identites.
Akiko: Same as Nayuki.
Am I the only one who noticed that the people in this town seem a bit xenophobic? Wonder why.
Deathkillz
2006-11-05, 12:49
Ayu: Some people said she might be an angel. Possible, but I doubt it. Probably does have real wings tucked up somewhere, though. I think that she's not human, but even she's not aware of this (yet). I was thinking 'android,' but she actually looks much smaller in the past, so that probably won't pan out.
i can actually see ayu sprouting wings in the OP O.o shes an angel! ^__^
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1272/snapshot20061105174456xe8.jpg
Am I the only one who noticed that the people in this town seem a bit xenophobic? Wonder why.
Hmm... don't think so. What makes you think this way?
If Akiko, Kaori and even the Taiyaki stall's owner is of any indication, they are quite friendly to people they do not know.
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-05, 13:15
Hmm... don't think so. What makes you think this way?
If Akiko, Kaori and even the Taiyaki stall's owner is of any indication, they are quite friendly to people they do not know.
Akiko is Yuuichi's relative, and Kaori is Nayuki's friend, so they already have personal ties to Yuuichi. And what merchant in his right mind is going to be rude to a customer - especially one that hauled a thief back to him? ;)
It mostly stems from Kaori's line: "Nayuki's the only reason you were accepted in this class" or something to that effect. It gave me the impression that people wouldn't have been too happy about him coming in if he wasn't Nayuki's cousin.
I could just be readign way too much into stuff, though. This show will have you doing that :heh:
HazardNights
2006-11-05, 13:53
Akiko is Yuuichi's relative, and Kaori is Nayuki's friend, so they already have personal ties to Yuuichi. And what merchant in his right mind is going to be rude to a customer - especially one that hauled a thief back to him? ;)
It mostly stems from Kaori's line: "Nayuki's the only reason you were accepted in this class" or something to that effect. It gave me the impression that people wouldn't have been too happy about him coming in if he wasn't Nayuki's cousin.
I could just be readign way too much into stuff, though. This show will have you doing that :heh:
You know that comment did stand out. First I figured what was meant by it that she was the reason why he got put into her class. Then again that idea that he wouldnt' have been accepted at all by those around had not been for their connection is something I hadn't considered.
Could everyone else have some idea of what happen when it comes to what Yuuichi can't remember (what we haven't been shown yet)?
Is there anything like that in future parts of the story?
You know that comment did stand out. First I figured what was meant by it that she was the reason why he got put into her class. Then again that idea that he wouldnt' have been accepted at all by those around had not been for their connection is something I hadn't considered.
Could everyone else have some idea of what happen when it comes to what Yuuichi can't remember (what we haven't been shown yet)?
Is there anything like that in future parts of the story?
Of course, sweet Ayu is an angel. Could anyone doubt that smile? ;)
I thought that Kaori's line was alittle odd too given that Yuichi is a cute and likeable guy. He probably would have fit in, but it wouldn't have been immediate. He certainly would have had more dates without people knowing where he lived imo.
Well, yeah. That's the whole premise. Yuichi is back and he has to remember to resolve stuff is part of the issue. We're actually being shown parts of what he has to remember all along in the prologues and his flashbacks.
Giving too much away isn't nice for the 1st timers. ;)
I try :heh:
The speculation thread got shut down, and I feel like I'm going to explode if I don't get this off my chest
It got reopened (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=38346)?
Could everyone else have some idea of what happen when it comes to what Yuuichi can't remember (what we haven't been shown yet)?
Is there anything like that in future parts of the story?
That's a good point. Maybe they know. And I'm guessing it wasnt pleasant at all. And I think it definitely has everything to do with the "umei" part at the beginning of each episode. We know someone gets hurt. Maybe he hurt Nayuki in a bad way, and the community wasn't too happy; so its only by Nayuki's grace that he can return.
(please move these to the Speculations thread)
Deathkillz
2006-11-06, 19:57
you know i think that the whole community has some hidden dark secrets...i mean look at all the ppl there that are loosing their memories =O it can all be coincidences...methinks some magical forces are at work here *shiver*
aliensporebomb
2006-11-06, 21:31
Speaking as one who has watched the earlier series I have a theory
but I've never actually seen it explained, confirmed or refuted so I'm
going to chime in on my own personal thinking about her commentary:
It's not really a spoiler since it doesn't really have any bearing or
outcome on how the story turns out, it's just interesting.
I've personally thought Kaori's comment may have related to the
fact that, as head of the track team, Nayuki may actually be well
on her way to class-rep level and perhaps her academic record is
such that there is some level of political influence on getting a
student who (as the case may or may not be) the best student
into class.
I'm not saying that Yuuichi is a bad student. But he is kind of
mischievous and I could see some schools potentially seeing a
behavior problem when it comes to him.
Okay, possibly a lousy theory but it came to mind.
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-06, 21:36
you know i think that the whole community has some hidden dark secrets...i mean look at all the ppl there that are loosing their memories =O it can all be coincidences...methinks some magical forces are at work here *shiver*
If I see a giant black robot pop out of the streets, I'm fricking done.
If I see a giant black robot pop out of the streets, I'm fricking done.
It is safe to say that there SHALL be NO mecha in Kanon. :heh: Unless people start piping crack to KyoAni's studio.
Cheers.
Meophist
2006-11-06, 23:27
It is safe to say that there SHALL be NO mecha in Kanon. :heh: Unless people start piping crack to KyoAni's studio.
Cheers.
I was thinking of saying that myself, but then realised that it could be considered a spoiler. Anyways, I have to say, I like hearing what the new guys have to say about the show. My previous experience with spoils me.
With that, I'm out. Have fun!
KaneDragon
2006-11-07, 13:10
Yeah, Ayu is sprouting wings in the op, that could be hinting at something... :P A spoiler crafted by the anime director? Not that I care. Uguu~ ;_;
And about Makoto...
It was a picture of a baby fox, with the line "Makoto: making people furry since (whenver)". So she's a fox? Hawt. I guess that's her reason for having no memories. Maybe she's a foxy princess, whose family was brutally murdered by demons? Or a semi, whichever comes first. ;_;
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-07, 14:58
And about Makoto...
It was a picture of a baby fox, with the line "Makoto: making people furry since (whenver)". So she's a fox? Hawt. I guess that's her reason for having no memories. Maybe she's a foxy princess, whose family was brutally murdered by demons? Or a semi, whichever comes first. ;_;
If this really is true, my head will start spinning because, looking back through the series, I can't figure out how I came to this conclusion when I did. Maybe I actually saw the original and had my memory erased immediately after :eyespin:
My guess is that Makoto's grudge has a lot to do with the school. It used to be a field (there's a shot of Yuuichi and Mai(?) running through a field in the OP). Maybe Makoto blames Yuuichi (for reasons unknown at this point) for the loss of her home? Whatever shows up at the school at night may also have something to do with this.
But if it was demons responsible, why hate Yuuichi? About the School-Grudge theory, I was thinking that too, but what does Yuuichi have to do with the school and razing of barley field? Unless, she just says she hates him for the sake of saying it, tho I doubt it.
I'm sure Ayu's an angel, look at the ED's last line: "A small angel will descend."
Nightengale
2006-11-09, 18:42
Speculation :~
Yuuichi : Yuuichi is the pimp-a-nator who either directly, or indirectly caused at the very least Ayu, Mai and Mikoto to have some sad, emo past. Only pimps have bonsai.
Ayu : The real Ayu suffered some form of life-threatening injury in the past that caused her to bleed profusely, and is either dead, or comatose, looking up the window of a hospital or somewhere. The Ayu we see is some form of physical apparition probably created from fragments of Ayu's memories, as Lost said maybe an angel due to the featheric symbolism.
Nayuki : I LUVVVV~ED YUICHII FROM MUKASHI MUKASHI, but Yuichii was a dick and didn't treat her very well in the past.
Makoto : Either a fox-turned-human or a fox-maiden. If we're going the cliche road, Yuuichi did something like saved an animal from a trap or something along that lines in the past, healed it, fox fell in luv, but Yuichii left the fox after it was healed, fox felt betrayed, wants to be human to meet Yuichii, somehow becomes one but suffered amnesia, and alas. Episode 2.
Mai : Had a sad, emo emo past where she was discriminated and hated for being different, probably her power to see demons. Yuichii was the only boy in the past who looked at Mai as just Mai, not strange girl. But something happened, Yuuichi had to leave town, and Mai was all alone again thus bad social skills...until Sayuri showed up...until Yuuichi showed up again.
Shiori : Terminal disease. No cure. At death's door. Probably has some family member that will relate to Yuuichi in the future...Kaori mentioned something about family problems....should be her unless Kaori's an ending girl. If it's Kaori, then family conflict due to Shiori's impending death or something.
Akiko : Deus Ex Machina.
Meh, all those are the most rational ones that popped up in my mind after 3 minutes of brainstorming every dorama anime and live-action I had seen. Don't get me started on evil conspiracies, back-stabbing friends and child-abortions.
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-09, 22:44
I don't know if whatever's at the school is responisble or not - I just said it might be related to the school/field thing.
What does Yuuichi have to do with it? Good question. Let's watch and find out ;)
Ayu might be an angel, but like I said, there's barely enough data at this point to even guess. We shall see.
Richard 23
2006-11-10, 12:04
Being a fan of the original game and 2002 series, I'm really enjoying this thread. Bits of these comments have me nodding in agreement others have me laughing out loud! And not in a bad way. Both extremes are great. Keep it up people! I have the feeling you're really going to enjoy the rest of this series.
aliensporebomb
2006-11-10, 16:21
Some interesting theories here. I guess I'd tell people who are watching
the new series to think along the lines of Air rather than Higurashi - no
Himinizawa syndrome here.
But what's nice about this longer series is there's more depth - there's
events that were never brought up or discussed in the 2002 series that
apparently are direct from the game. It's like watching a story you like
as viewed from a different angle and seeing different facets from the
same stone.
So it's nice to be able to revisit what I think is a great story in more depth.
I think it is really surprising that Mai seems to know about Makoto's
future. I've thought about it a bit further and I personally think that
Mai is:
An empath of some sort.
Deathkillz
2006-11-10, 16:28
mai knowing about mokoto (or she seems to be)...if it is true that mai is actually "slaying demons" then i can guess that its also true that she can see what makoto is up to...maybe she has the ability to see the "aura" of misfortune around makoto? what ever it is...its bound to be a bad omen...
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-10, 18:30
Some interesting theories here. I guess I'd tell people who are watching
the new series to think along the lines of Air rather than Higurashi - no
Himinizawa syndrome here.
So, you mean that Kaori isn't going to kill herself, Shiori isn't going to be publicly disemboweled, Akiko isn't going get burned alive, and Yuuichi isn't going to imagine Nayuki and Ayu are after him and beat the life out of them with a snowshovel?
Crap, there goes that bet :(
So, you mean that Kaori isn't going to kill herself, Shiori isn't going to be publicly disemboweled, Akiko isn't going get burned alive, and Yuuichi isn't going to imagine Nayuki and Ayu are after him and beat the life out of them with a snowshovel?
Crap, there goes that bet :(
I've been avoiding Higurashi (other than the shovel smashing intro) ... just how graphic is it? No, don't tell me, I may have to grit my teeth and take a look....
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-10, 20:13
I've been avoiding Higurashi (other than the shovel smashing intro) ... just how graphic is it? No, don't tell me, I may have to grit my teeth and take a look....
[off-topic]
Actually, it's a baseball bat in Higurashi :p
The worst of it is one split-second shot of a body in a river with its entrails pulled out. It isn't a gratuitous shot, but you can see enough. There's also a poor fellow who gets his head cleaved in two, but the shot is tastefully darkened near the point of impact. That's the worst of the gore, but there's plenty of blood elsewhere. A lot of the worst stuff happens off-screen, which to me is more disturbing in an Alfred Hitchcock kind of way.
[/off-topic]
:heh:
mai knowing about mokoto (or she seems to be)
I think its definite that Mai knows. Extending her hand to Makoto; saying "come" and then patting her head. Not things I would do to a human girl (:heh:). In fact, do you remember in epsiode 1 or 2, Sayuri stumbled upon Mai feeding some sort of fox? Makoto maybe!?
Rengemaru
2006-11-12, 06:55
In fact, do you remember in epsiode 1 or 2, Sayuri stumbled upon Mai feeding some sort of fox? Makoto maybe!?
Nope that wasn't Makoto, I'm very sure of it.
In fact, do you remember in epsiode 1 or 2, Sayuri stumbled upon Mai feeding some sort of fox?
Mai was feeding a dog back in Episode 1. http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=706801&postcount=127
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-13, 21:52
It could have been Makoto that Nayuki was after on the hill in the first episode, but I don't see us getting any conformation of that or it having any impact on the story if we do.
While Nayuki is showing Yuuichi the town they visit a hill... and encounter a small wild Fox that Nayuki tries to pet but it takes off.
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-16, 16:58
Hmm... seems I was wrong about Shiori. Looks like she knows as much as anyone else about what's going on. Except Akiko. I've decided that Akiko knows all, including how the bathwater turned to miso soup.
Also, I'm really wondering what's with Ayu. Her parents used to take her to movies when she was little... I feel like that's quite a clue about her origins.
Her parents used to take her to movies when she was little... I feel like that's quite a clue about her origins.
Ah... I dont see how that can be taken as clue, or if it could tell anything.. Bringing little kids to the movies is pretty common. :rolleyes: Yes, it never occured to me. How did Makoto get all that Miso soup in the bath?? I think that, and her subsequent reaction, is more foreshadowment than anything else.
Blue Reverie
2006-11-17, 12:10
They don't have instant "just add water" soup packages or anything like that for Miso soup?
Deathkillz
2006-11-17, 13:11
^ yea lol...she used a big sack of miso instant soup powder :p
as of ep 7 it doesnt look very pleasing with makotos' situation...she seems to be reflection a lot on herself and the subliminal connection that im getting with her = stray animal = not good >.<
she has to go back to where ever she came from soon? i dont know but the fox in ep 7 seems to recognise her :uhoh:
Klashikari
2006-11-17, 13:37
there isn't really a lot of possibilities to determine who/what is really makoto.
i think there is enough puzzle pieces (hell no, i'm not getting into "higurashi" mode :heh:) to see the picture of it :
DON'T READ following comments unless you have watched the 7th episode at the very least
makoto is probably a fox.. though the reason why she is there is probably answered with the episode 7.
i thought it was really weird why she would have such grudge against yuuichi to begin with (it is assumed she felt like this when he was already in this town, so while he was such a cute kid, at least 7 years ago).
so, i guess (and probably most of us) that makoto was taken by yuuichi while she was a fox, and he had to release her since he had to leave
i think it's pretty rationnal...
-yuuichi seems to like animals a lot, judging from his quotes about makoto and the cat. (how the cat was cute with makoto and the "animal life" mention)
-makoto feels really bad about wild animals being taken, then trash out when useless.
-and indeed, it would be hard for any parent to let their child keeping a wild animal, especially a fox...)
this would explain her grudge and some of her weird behaviours. (example : konnyaku scene)
also, if i'm not mistaken, fox are "mystical" creatures in japanese myths. (forget about naruto please ! :heh: )
and the preview of the episode 8 gives a huge hint that makoto is not human.
there are still some questions around : why does she have amnesia? and who the hell is that amano girl? another "mai"? oO
with mai's case, and this one, i feel really bad about "who" is really ayu... ~~ (fortunately, nayuki and shiori *seem* normal, thought it won't really mean this is fortunate for them -_-... such heartaches coming soon i gues >_>)
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-17, 13:42
Ah... I dont see how that can be taken as clue, or if it could tell anything.. Bringing little kids to the movies is pretty common. :rolleyes:
Exactly. It's a hint in that it means that Ayu is most likely human, or at least has lived like a human. Also, angels don't really have parents ;)
Deathkillz
2006-11-17, 14:17
there are still some questions around : why does she have amnesia? and who the hell is that amano girl? another "mai"? oO
amnesia? seems pretty common for everyone in the town including yuuichi :heh:
but i think that makoto is actually recovered from her amnesia...i think he is sceretly hiding the fact that she knows who she is hence todays scene when she is talking about animals being abandoned...
the new girl amano seems to know a lot...another pot hold comming this way :heh:
with mai's case, and this one, i feel really bad about "who" is really ayu... ~~ (fortunately, nayuki and shiori *seem* normal, thought it won't really mean this is fortunate for them -_-... such heartaches coming soon i gues >_>)
well there story will be developing soon...but lets get the first hurdle over with...we dont want to fall too much into the abyss just yet >.>
Klashikari
2006-11-17, 14:39
amnesia? seems pretty common for everyone in the town including yuuichi :heh:
you got the point XD.
but i feel that Yuuichi, Ayu and Makoto have different origin of their amnesia.
yuuichi seems to have "unconscious safety", Ayu seems to be "locked" in the time, and makoto's issue is plainly unknown (no hints or whatsoever)
i will admit : i'm really tempted to spill what i'm thinking, but it would be probably unconvenent (this thread is made for this, but i guess i will going wild like "you know where" XD) and it's highly probable that it was really discussed ~~
but i think that makoto is actually recovered from her amnesia...i think he is sceretly hiding the fact that she knows who she is hence todays scene when she is talking about animals being abandoned...who knows? *shrugs* prehaps she felt bad for the cat in fact, and was imagining things like this but meh... ^^;
the new girl amano seems to know a lot...another pot hold comming this way :heh:my main concern about this character would be her usefulness or role in the serie : i hope she won't only be a key character of makoto's arc only, or it would be really silly -_- (at least, some secondary character like Sayuri)
well there story will be developing soon...but lets get the first hurdle over with...we dont want to fall too much into the abyss just yet >.>yes indeed, but we are almost at the third of the whole serie, so i think it's time to brainstorm a bit, since the main dish is really coming soon ^^ (if not, this would be one of the slowest "plot wise" serie ever...>_>)
After watching Ep 7
there isn't really a lot of possibilities to determine who/what is really makoto.
i think there is enough puzzle pieces (hell no, i'm not getting into "higurashi" mode :heh:) to see the picture of it :
DON'T READ following comments unless you have watched the 7th episode at the very least
makoto is probably a fox.. though the reason why she is there is probably answered with the episode 7.
i thought it was really weird why she would have such grudge against yuuichi to begin with (it is assumed she felt like this when he was already in this town, so while he was such a cute kid, at least 7 years ago).
so, i guess (and probably most of us) that makoto was taken by yuuichi while she was a fox, and he had to release her since he had to leave
i think it's pretty rationnal...
-yuuichi seems to like animals a lot, judging from his quotes about makoto and the cat. (how the cat was cute with makoto and the "animal life" mention)
-makoto feels really bad about wild animals being taken, then trash out when useless.
-and indeed, it would be hard for any parent to let their child keeping a wild animal, especially a fox...)
this would explain her grudge and some of her weird behaviours. (example : konnyaku scene)
also, if i'm not mistaken, fox are "mystical" creatures in japanese myths. (forget about naruto please ! :heh: )
and the preview of the episode 8 gives a huge hint that makoto is not human.
I agree with you about Makoto (especially after reading everyone's comments of the first episode emphasising the appearance of that fox... argh I feel like I'm spoiled haha).
Amano-san could be... the owner of the fox?
Currently my speculations are:
-Ayu is an angel/ghost (her wings-like coat and the opening sequence)
-Makoto is a Fox spirit (what Klashikari said)
-Shiori is a Snow spirit (she appeard after snow fell and she's talking about making a snowman)
-Nayuki is... a Frog's spirit
-Mai is... a Tako-san spirit
(the last two are a (bad) joke :heh:)
^ Indeed, from Makoto's messed up psyche about the cheapness of animals, it's obvious something traumatic to that extent happened to her. That theory of yours, Klashikari, is also relevant to what Makoto said: "... before it gets domesticated and learns what peace is."
Also, it could be rationalized that Yuuichi reacted so strongly against what Makoto did, because he did it himself once before, and it hurt so much that he didnt want to see it done again.
To add to that:
Question is; what has she been doing all these years? Wouldn't a fox age faster than a human? So she would have to be an adult compared to Yuuichi now. Thats why this is what I think: Makoto was a fox, was taken in for a period long enough to be domesticated, learnt what peace was; got abandoned, but could not return to her pack. And hence she died, alone and unwanted, while Yuuichi was away.
Klashikari
2006-11-21, 11:10
i really wondering about what happened between the 7 years.
however, the fox we can see at the 1st episode (when Nayuki was showing the village to yuuichi) is somewhat a big hint.
the coincidence is a bit huge... the very next day they saw it, makoto just pops from nowhere. however, i admit that Makoto has "a lot" of cast offs for only 1 day :s *thinks thinks*
Nevertherless, i'm not really sure that makoto become "human" more than 1 week (if my first statement is wrong).
2 points for this :
-Makoto wouldn't be able to survive long enough (though she is using cast offs and left over, i won't think a girl like her could live for more than... let's say 2-3 weeks) : she obviously doesn't know how "life" works, and it's winter, so shorting a lot her survivability.
-the police would spots her at the very least (she isn't really the discrete type)
now... the missing parts are : how did she end like this? with some artefact? someone (amano? mai? ) ?
we know the why, and the when is maybe already answered :heh:
it's really too bad that we have only enough clues for makoto only.
Ayu is a bit obvious (the "dream" spoilers are really big, and some of her behaviour), but Mai and Shiori a plain mysterious (damn shiori, she really means it XD)
EDIT : just read the nightengale spoiler (i skipped without paying attention X-x). just owns completely with such rationnal and accurate speculations XD (but seriously, you are sharp with only the 5-6 first episode. you win a cookie !)
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-21, 12:06
Seems like my fox theory caught on and built up steam :heh:. Everything about the abandonment issues has already been stated, and I don't feel the need to repeat it all.
I'm not sure what to make of this Amano girl. She only has roughly ten seconds of screentime, so I guess that's to be expected.
Still thinking that Akiko knows all.
Mai definitely knows something, whether she realizes it herself or not.
We saw Ayu for about 20 seconds this episode, so no new revelations there.
Nayuki... is still Nayuki. Although there's probably a reason she likes cats so much.
Kaori still has no development :o
Shiori - snow spirit? Maybe. It would explain why she doesn't actually seem sick despite breathing in that winter air constantly.
I guess that's where we're left at after episode seven.
Just cought up with the series, and i thought i go here and vent out some crack-pot theories. (tho i believe some of them are mentioned allready).
Makoto - I think it's a safe bet that she was a fox at some point that for one reason or another got taken in and lived in a house, but was thrown out later. Most likely has everything to do with Yuuichi - maybe she was injured and Yuuichi took her in, but had to leave her behind when he moved away from the city > Thus her grudge against him - she thinks that he threw her out when she was no longer wanted.
(Tho she has no memories from time she spent as a fox... in fact i believe the fox we saw at ep1 was Makoto. And the fact that Yuuichi said to Nayuki that its hard to befriend a fox might indicate that he has some experience in this are ). Tho i get the feeling that she might have some subconscious feeling about it judging by the things she said in ep7. Why she became a human ? No idea. (has amnesia problem - does not remember anything prior ep2)
Ayu - i think she might be a ghost. Maybe she died some time after Yuuichi left the city and her ghost now wanders arround(hence why she seems less matue than she should be considering she is the same age as Yuuichi - i gues ghosts don't age). Why she became a ghost - no idea... but it's possible that it has something to do with the prommise she made with Yuuichi back then. The thing she is looking for might be some sort of memo Yuuichi could have given her before he left, but she lost it in the time her death took place.
Or she might be an angel - in OP we see her with wings, and she has those little wings on her backpack... so she might be the deus-ex machine that will fix everything(more or less) in the end ... tho in either case i think she died soon after Yuuchi left.... Hm... she certainly does not have the mentality of a normal 17 or so year old. (but she herself seems oblivious that she is ...whatever she is :p ). It seems that her mind might be stuck in a time-loop ever since back then...hence why she thinks there should be a bakery instead of a book store. (Has amnesia problem - does not remember what she is looking for). Does not seem to have a home either.
Shiori - ... im almost ready to buy that she is a normal girl. But i do not think she has cold - i am almost dead certain she has some sickness that can not be cured and she knows that her end is ner. Impending doom. Hence why she does not care about walking around in cold dressed so lightly - it does not matter to her, because she knows she is dead soon anyway. Possibly she has allways been hospitalized(sp?) because of her sickness, and now that she knows her end is near she wants to sneak out and have some fun - like build a snowman she possibly never had the chance to do much before.
Tho the fact that she is waiting for some one seems strange... (ill take a guess that the person she is waiting for is Yuuichi)... maybe she met him on the school ground 7 years before ...maybe she allready knew about her sickness then and was all depressed... but Yuuichi managed to cheer her up and maybe they built a snowman together... hence why she walks to school grounds every day - possibly she hopes to meet that boy from back then.... tho this is a pretty long shot. (Has amnesia problem - does not remember who she is waiting for) I don't think she is a spirit(some one said she migh be because she does not seem to feel cold - well she said Yuuichi's jacket was warm, so i gues she feels these things :))
Nayuki... i think she is a normal human. The fact that she is Yuuichi's cousin (and you better not come screaming 'incest' if there is anything going to happen between Yuuchi and nayuki...im sick and tired of it) and has a mother pretty much rules out any supernatural theories in my book. Tho i believe she might share some darker past events with Yuuichi... not going to speculate what because too little is known about it. (Has amnesia problems - could not remember the legend about the fox... Hm...now that i think about it...could the legend actually be about Makoto?). Question is - does she remember what happened 7 years ago and is hiding it or she has forgotten just like Yuuichi?
Mai... the girl with ability to see demons ... and possibly more - she seems to know something about Makoto. Have no idea if she is human or not... she might be though - her cold attitude could have developed in her childhood, when she kept telling every one she can se demons... resulting in every one believing she is crazy and treating her as such... thus she ceased to talk to any one. Reason she can see them...no idea...maybe some happening in her past that triggered the ability. No amnesia problems that i know of.
Yuuichi... Hm, interesting. I bet he has conections to all of the girls in his past. Tho he seems to have forgotten all about it... as i said - i think some pretty dark things happened in the past, and maybe his mind has shut out all of these memories as a part of self-defense. I'm pretty sure he's human :heh: Obviously things will get clear once he regains these memories, which i think will happen.
Akiko... Now, this is an interesting one. So far it seems she is the only one that knows(more or less) whats going on... and she definitely seems to remember what happened 7 years ago - she gets sad every time past is mentioned. I think she will eventually serve as trigger to unlock Yuuichi's memories. As normal human as one can get in this anime :heh:
Now, the confusing part - demons. The same demons Mai is hunting. Are they related to the events that are happening/happened 7 years ago? Do they even exist or are a fragment of Mai's imagination? If they do exist, how come they allways seem to apper in the school ? Is the school conected to this in some way? The school was built over some sort of field, right? Is this important?
Gah...that will be it for now :heh: I feel like watching Higurashi again - you can never know whats happening and there are numerous theories you can come up with to explain the semi supernatural events that are taking place.
Klashikari
2006-11-21, 12:12
i don't really think that akiko knows anything about Makoto.
it is obvious that she is suspicious about her, but for now, i think she is concerned about her relationship with Yuuichi. (her comment about her having a baito is a hint.)
but akiko clearly knows something about Ayu, and so on.
Ayu
it is safe to say that, like nightengale said, ayu is dead or in comatose. (i suspect the episode 2 is showing a hospital window)
ayu would be seeking for something important from yuuichi (the angel doll in the opening?). the fact that she doesn't remember things, she don't even know what is a cell, and mistaken twice 2 places (they were supposed to be food shop) mean that ayu is either stuck in the time (for being dead) or somewhere else (in the hospital since the accident, 7 years ago) before the present time.
but it is obvious that yuuichi witnessed Ayu accident : there are 2 spoiler intros who show a little boy crying near of ayu.
the first episode spoiler just confirm this. (the shape of the dying girl shade is of course ayu. the impossibility to move, and the "red dyed" snow confirm that ayu is badly injured, while yuuichi is crying next to her).
with this extent, i suspect that yuuichi's amnesia comes from this trauma, like i said earlier : yuuichi unconsciously tried to forget about ayu and this town altogether, preventing a lot of grief and sadness.
also, is it possible that this accident was the cause of his departure form this town? the death of a dear friend is rather shocking etc (this would explain how akiko knows something about ayu)
Mai @skyfall : very nice theory , but i feel that the demons are in fact mai power. it doesn't really seem like a higurashi hallucination (:heh:) because yuuichi was knocked off by an invisible force, while mai was dashing and slashing air. (episode 5, yuuichi was hit, but mai wasn't on him. it is only AFTER he was knocked that she continues and slash the air)
but, the fact the demons are only showing up in the school is indeed weird.
also, it is obvious that mai was bullied when she was a child because of her powers and thus, becomes unfriendly and quiet. but according the opening, it appears that yuuichi didn't care about it, and they were playing in the wheat field.
wait a minute ! didn't yuuichi say in ep1 that there used to be a wheat field in the school area, while nayuki confirming this?
does it have any connection with mai playing with yuuichi in the wheat field, while she is chasing demons IN the school?
this is a wild theory (i'm connecting some wild thoughts with skyfall speculation) :
let's say that mai and yuuichi were good friends.
then suddenly, yuuichi had to move away, while they were playing some "demons hunting" game?
would it be possible that mai was saying something like "i will protect this place" or something, waiting for yuuichi's return to "defeat" them?
this would make sense that mai is only guarding the school.
with this, it is possible that Mai forgot what she has done (i suppose that this is because of the disappearance of the wheat field, for the new school building) but still have her power active (so she do see the demons, while she is creating them unconsciously)
so, this means that mai DOES have amnesia too :heh: (even if this theory is wrong, i'm pretty sure that yuuichi and mai know each other when they were children, so she still have some memory loss XD)
I have a little question....
Anybody know about the OSTs and Ending- and Opening-Songs? I have heart that some Songs are out? But where???
Concerning Mai... watch the OP carefully :) and bask in Mai cuteness while gathering clues.
Klashikari
2006-11-21, 13:10
hey, you bet ! (mai is equal to Ayu moeness with the opening alone <3 )
but i can't see any other meaning of this wheat field ~~
I need to watch the opening again. Somehow, I remember young Mai with bunny ears. :heh: Are those really bunny ears or a normal ribbon?
We all agree that Akiko knows about Ayu, but I find it strange that Akiko was surprised when she knew Yuuichi was friends with Ayu in the past. How did she know of Ayu then? Unless she's like Mai and feels ghosts/demons? Hehe.
Klashikari
2006-11-21, 14:51
I need to watch the opening again. Somehow, I remember young Mai with bunny ears. :heh: Are those really bunny ears or a normal ribbon?
bingo ! that makes her so moe, with her brilliant smile ^____^
We all agree that Akiko knows about Ayu, but I find it strange that Akiko was surprised when she knew Yuuichi was friends with Ayu in the past. How did she know of Ayu then? Unless she's like Mai and feels ghosts/demons? Hehe.
excellent question ! newspapers about a girl being badly injured/dead?
*thinks* this is a difficult detail ~~
Deathkillz
2006-11-21, 15:07
i bet akiko has some binoculars and spies on yuuichi :heh:
no how did young mai (somewat similar to ayu) turn into the present mai (cold and hard)...wheat field? clues? something must have happened there...and is that yuuichi with her? O.o so another childhood friendship...
Klashikari
2006-11-21, 15:14
no how did young mai (somewat similar to ayu) turn into the present mai (cold and hard)...wheat field? clues? something must have happened there...and is that yuuichi with her? O.o so another childhood friendship...
this is only a wild theory, but granted, it is realistic :
since mai has special power, it is possible that she was abused and/or bullied by her classmates.
with the departure of yuuichi, her (only?) friend, she just put herself in a shell i think.
but this would be a bit exaggerated if the little boy isn't yuuichi. (clothes etc)
note that our "amnesic" yuuichi STILL remember about the wheat field (though he doesn't really seem to be familiar with the town scenery to begin with), which is somewhat important i believe.
note to himself : holy hell, i'm going wild again ~~
Ayu
it is safe to say that, like nightengale said, ayu is dead or in comatose. (i suspect the episode 2 is showing a hospital window)
ayu would be seeking for something important from yuuichi (the angel doll in the opening?). the fact that she doesn't remember things, she don't even know what is a cell, and mistaken twice 2 places (they were supposed to be food shop) mean that ayu is either stuck in the time (for being dead) or somewhere else (in the hospital since the accident, 7 years ago) before the present time.
but it is obvious that yuuichi witnessed Ayu accident : there are 2 spoiler intros who show a little boy crying near of ayu.
the first episode spoiler just confirm this. (the shape of the dying girl shade is of course ayu. the impossibility to move, and the "red dyed" snow confirm that ayu is badly injured, while yuuichi is crying next to her).
with this extent, i suspect that yuuichi's amnesia comes from this trauma, like i said earlier : yuuichi unconsciously tried to forget about ayu and this town altogether, preventing a lot of grief and sadness.
also, is it possible that this accident was the cause of his departure form this town? the death of a dear friend is rather shocking etc (this would explain how akiko knows something about ayu)
Mai
wait a minute ! didn't yuuichi say in ep1 that there used to be a wheat field in the school area, while nayuki confirming this?
does it have any connection with mai playing with yuuichi in the wheat field, while she is chasing demons IN the school?
this is a wild theory (i'm connecting some wild thoughts with skyfall speculation) :
let's say that mai and yuuichi were good friends.
then suddenly, yuuichi had to move away, while they were playing some "demons hunting" game?
would it be possible that mai was saying something like "i will protect this place" or something, waiting for yuuichi's return to "defeat" them?
this would make sense that mai is only guarding the school.
with this, it is possible that Mai forgot what she has done (i suppose that this is because of the disappearance of the wheat field, for the new school building) but still have her power active (so she do see the demons, while she is creating them unconsciously)
Wait Wait.. I always thought that was Nayuki speaking in the "spoiler intros," as you call them.
Theory about Mai : thats quite plausible.
Klashikari
2006-11-24, 13:04
well, i'm pretty sure it is ayu's voice.
also, you can distingish the girl's shade i think (nayuki had braids when she was younger, and since this girl has a ribbon in her hair and has rather plain simple long hair style, i really think it is ayu)
also, for the moment, ayu is the only one who is talking about a promise, and yuuichi has said this word only to ayu. (where you can see that the intro girl is wondering "who said "it's a promise" again?" )
After watching Ep 8
OMG! OMG! OMG! The theory of Makoto being a fox is right after all!!! *is really excited*~ Thanks FatPianoBoy , you were the first to propose this idea.
Now I'm too surprised to think about the rest. :heh: *clears all speculations about them*
Deathkillz
2006-11-24, 17:34
well im getting ready for a fall down to hell :heh:
but i have to say...fox version makoto is cute :3
well lets see what happens after this arc...im sure more speculations with be heading this way ^_^
edit: well soz about that...didnt really think it was reall needed after x amount of time has passed after the ep was released :heh:
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-24, 17:59
Ahem... I haven't gotten hold of episode eight yet, guys. Don't make me give you a lesson in spoiler tags :frustrated:
Second that... ya'll might want to put revelations into spoiler tags, eh?
( deathkillz, lilith, .... and yes, I know its really hard to avoid at times)
Don't get me started on spoilers... i actually got spoiled about which girl he chose in previous canon :upset: (yes, i am going to moan about this for a good while)
Deathkillz
2006-11-24, 18:39
oki i really dont want to know that T_T better off shooting me...and yes ive edited my last post...
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-24, 18:42
If it's speculation, as in unconfirmed hypothesizing, then it doesn't really need spoilers. But if it's confirmation, like just now, please remember the tags. It's, like, fifteen more keystrokes to stick those in there.
@Skyfall: Glad I dodged that one. I'd whine about it for a while, too. People need to excercise discretion when there are newbies around.
I'm so sorry!! (I did write in bolded words After watching Ep 8) My thinking was like Deathkillz that there's no need to since the fansub was released.
And uhh, I don't know where to ask this, but I'm doing it here (I'm too afraid to go to the Q & A thread :heh:):
What does the title Kanon mean?
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-25, 00:32
I'm so sorry!! (I did write in bolded words After watching Ep 8) My thinking was like Deathkillz that there's no need to since the fansub was released.
Not everyone just grabs the first group to release. Some people wait on their group of choice ;)
And uhh, I don't know where to ask this, but I'm doing it here (I'm too afraid to go to the Q & A thread :heh:):
What does the title Kanon mean?
Kanon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_in_D)
I've since gotten over the little incident with the tags, so now to commence with what I normally do in situations like this:
I called it
That is all :D
You're right. I'm so embarassed now, I apologize again!! And LOL yes, you did. :D
It's a music piece, huh...
In the anime Kanon, the song was used during a cafe scene in episode 2
Ohh, nice~
About Amino... did she have a similar experience? Or maybe she's the owner of Makoto? Why was she so angry...
I think that if Makoto collapsed, Amino will be the one to cure her. Noway Makoto will die!
Deathkillz
2006-11-25, 05:39
About Amino... did she have a similar experience? Or maybe she's the owner of Makoto? Why was she so angry...
I think that if Makoto collapsed, Amino will be the one to cure her. Noway Makoto will die!
well i first thought that amino was a fox too who took the form of a human just like makoto...but what doesnt add up is that she still has her memories...but if it is true i would guess its the fox that was shown in the woods in ep 7...as weve only recently seen amino comming out...but that again doesnt add up as the fox appeared after we see amino...
well so ill just conclude that amino is some like mai to stop my head from hurting :heh:
@ Lilith
Not just a musical piece, but rather a musical form - a Kanon is a piece of music in which involves a melody that has one or more imitations of the original melody present in the song - think like a piece sung in 'rounds'. Quite a few commonly heard ones today are Baroque in style - the most famous is, as FatPianoBoy linked Kanon D-dur by Johannes Pachelbel. It actually plays in the current Kanon anime in the first episode where Ayu and Yuuichi are hiding from the Taiyaki seller in the café.
Oh, and if you're an Eva fan, it's the piece that the Shinji/Asuka/Rei/Kaworu string quartet play in Evangelion: Death. Beautiful piece of music ^^
And congratulations to the first time watchers for guessing the identity of Makoto, at least in part - very well done indeed. :)
-Andiyar
well i first thought that amino was a fox too who took the form of a human just like makoto...but what doesnt add up is that she still has her memories...but if it is true i would guess its the fox that was shown in the woods in ep 7...as weve only recently seen amino comming out...but that again doesnt add up as the fox appeared after we see amino...
well so ill just conclude that amino is some like mai to stop my head from hurting :heh:
Oh wow thanks I completely forgot about that fox which appeared in the 7th episode!
Do you think it's a relative of Makoto? XD Perhaps Amino is a "leveled up" fox who can transform whenever they want. She's angry at Makoto because the latter break the clan rules? Haha...
And what is Mai? We can understand how she knew Makoto since she's a demon hunter. But how did she know about Amino's connection? She can read minds/past/whatever?! It's starting to get on my nerves because now Mai is like Guide Fairy who knows everything and understand everything. :rolleyes:
Thank you, andiyar! I just skipped through the Wiki page. But I still don't get the connection? Maybe... 5 girls have different stories but share the same base: sad girl in the snow? Is that it? (I'm really dense)
Klashikari
2006-11-25, 07:36
this is a speculation, so i don't think i need spoiler tags for this :
we can deduce that Mai can sense anything related to "supernatural" properties. (whenever it is the person who isn't human, or someone with the same abilties)
so this is possible that Mai felt that way. for makoto true nature, and for Mishio.
KenOhki'sRage
2006-11-25, 22:08
Just as a note, Air is also a musical form
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_%28music%29
But unfortunately Clannad is not.
MakubeX2
2006-11-25, 22:16
But unfortunately Clannad is not.
In a somewhat distant realtion to music Clannad is the name of a Irish Band, which in turn derive the name from the Irish term "Clann as Dobhar" (Family From Dore)
And as the namesake imply, "Clannad" has the term "Clann" which means "Family", the game deals with the theme "Family".
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-25, 22:17
Maybe we'll get something like "Rondo" or "Waltz" next time ;)
But unfortunately Clannad is not.
It dosen't matter how you twist it but Clannad, Kanon, AIR, and MOON are connected. Anyway I only think it would matter if they are coming with a clannad anime.
@ Lilith
I'd say that's a fair assumption - that the story of Kanon is a roundelay of the 'sad girl in snow' meme could be argued rather efficiently, I'd say. I don't really want to be spoilerific here, as this is a speculation for people who haven't seen/played/read Kanon before... but without being at all specific, common themes are an interesting way to look at the characters. As to which themes... that's what this thread is for, right? ^^
@ Theclow
Which they indeed are, at least a theatrical feature film. It's being animated by TOEI, and is due out in 2007. :)
-Andiyar
I think that if Makoto collapsed, Amino will be the one to cure her. Noway Makoto will die!
I think you will lose heavily if you bet on that. I would bet my own behind and feel safe about doing so on the fact that Makoto will die. I expect this show beeing bittersweet to down right tragic, and i don't expect to be wrong on this one based on what i have seen so far and the overall atmosphere of the show. (And the fact that i have seen Air)
Deathkillz
2006-11-26, 04:40
^ i dont think she was being serious about that comment...just a dream >.<
think of Air think of this *runs to corner*
edit: well soz about that...didnt really think it was reall needed after x amount of time has passed after the ep was released :heh:
Read your spoiler, and kinda suprised about the reaction too, since I think thats pretty well-founded already. And for the record, I haven watched 8 yet. :p And FPB, I'm sure I heard it from someone else (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=698744&postcount=53) before you
CALLED IT
:p :p :heh:
FatPianoBoy
2006-11-26, 12:03
And FPB, I'm sure I heard it from someone else before you
CALLED IT
:p :p :heh:
FPB's post (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=730455&postcount=6) in this thread predates almost all other speculative posts in this thread. I said this stuff around episode four :p
[/weeaboo]
I must say, This is my first time through the series and it seems very similar to AIR in many ways. At first i was intrested, and then as the ep's kept rolling out i became hooked!
What a story, and what a shocker! Its definetly a keeper in my anime collection. That uguu!!! Its just to cute, UGUU!!!
Im up to ep 8 ganna watch ep 9 soon. It seems that there is alot of "miracles" going on in the town.
Klashikari
2006-12-16, 08:52
since the subbed version of ep11 is up, there are several things to add :
Ayu :
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/657/dollmt6.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dollmt6.jpg)
we can safely say that the person who is receiving the doll is ayu (regarding the shape of the hands and the cloth), and the one who is giving it is yuuichi (the trademark green jacket)
so we can assume that this is the "important thing" that ayu is searching until now (the value of this doll is also demonstrated in the opening)
now... what is the purpose of the doll?
Shiori :
i don't know if it was already said, but i can't stop thinking about some link between her and Kaori (both of them have family issue, shiori decease seems to be way more serious it appears to be, and kaori seems have weird pissing moments on her own)
Since the word "miracle" is somewhat important for kaori, how about shiori having an incurable decease and being hopeless?
the ep 11 is increasing this feeling so far.
Nayuki :
nothing...
Mai :
the fact that mai doesn't know why the demons are chasing her is really getting on my head : the demons definitavely exist and are not mai's imagination/dellusions/hallucinations.
yet, they are only getting her, while it seems there are a lot of prey around.
so...
the demons have a weird pattern : it seems that mai is going by herself in the school to fight against them. isn't strange that it appears they are "waiting" for her, instead her waiting for them?
If the monsters were really chasing her, why would she choose to fight in the school, while she could have a better environment outside, like the frontyard?
or do they give her a reason to fight? like i said earlier, i do think mai is CREATING them unconsciously.
that said, the reason why she does is perhaps linked to the other statement : her childhood friend, the playboy yuuichi !
the fact she is always staying in the school is somewhat linked with the "wheat field" matter, back in the episode 1.
since it doesn't appear that she is fighting the demons anywhere else, the fact she was playing with yuuichi in the wheat field, the exact location where the new school building was built, it would be a perfect sense if she is unconsciously "playing" some child game "protect the base" or something.
and this can be explained when yuuichi left the town, while they were friends.
the episode 11 gives more details about it : mai is fighting the demons a while back. (it would be interesting to know when the wheat field was rased for the new school building)
the most important thing in this episode : mai doesn't recall any good reason for defeating the demons.
am i thinking too much? :heh:
Deathkillz
2006-12-16, 10:01
since the subbed version of ep11 is up, there are several things to add :
Ayu :
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Kanon/Kanon%20-%2011%20-%20Large%20Preview%2001.jpg
we can safely say that the person who is receiving the doll is ayu (regarding the shape of the hands and the cloth), and the one who is giving it is yuuichi (the trademark green jacket)
so we can assume that this is the "important thing" that ayu is searching until now (the value of this doll is also demonstrated in the opening)
now... what is the purpose of the doll?
link to the past which links to yuuichi?
Shiori :
i don't know if it was already said, but i can't stop thinking about some link between her and Kaori (both of them have family issue, shiori decease seems to be way more serious it appears to be, and kaori seems have weird pissing moments on her own)
Since the word "miracle" is somewhat important for kaori, how about shiori having an incurable decease and being hopeless?
the ep 11 is increasing this feeling so far.
oh noes like i said in the other thread i did something that i shouldnt have done...if you really wanna know whats the link between them wiki will spoil it >.<
neways a miracle? well my guess would be that kaori is waiting for some miracle to happen...but to who?
its quite strange that yuuichi seems to be the only one to interact with shiori ~ why?
Mai :
the fact that mai doesn't know why the demons are chasing her is really getting on my head : the demons definitavely exist and are not mai's imagination/dellusions/hallucinations.
yet, they are only getting her, while it seems there are a lot of prey around.
so...
the demons have a weird pattern : it seems that mai is going by herself in the school to fight against them. isn't strange that it appears they are "waiting" for her, instead her waiting for them?
If the monsters were really chasing her, why would she choose to fight in the school, while she could have a better environment outside, like the frontyard?
or do they give her a reason to fight? like i said earlier, i do think mai is CREATING them unconsciously.
now this point is convincing ~ right up to now mai still havent stated why monsters attack the school for whatever reason...and why she should even care considering its at night ~ also wht are their purpose? are they breaking up the school or what?
i think that something (family problems? + yuuichi leaving her behind) might have caused her to regress into a state of depression ~ this might have spawned some ideas in her head which caused another miracle ~ tho it might not be a good one...
she could have been fighting the monsters ever since waiting for yuuichi to come back and "save her!?" from this repetitive life...
After watching Ep 11
Shiori :
i don't know if it was already said, but i can't stop thinking about some link between her and Kaori (both of them have family issue, shiori decease seems to be way more serious it appears to be, and kaori seems have weird pissing moments on her own)
Since the word "miracle" is somewhat important for kaori, how about shiori having an incurable decease and being hopeless?
the ep 11 is increasing this feeling so far.
Waw, I really didn't make a connection at all! I think there's a possibilty. I thought that it was a refrence to Makoto and her miracle.
Again, the dream scene came back... Perhaps all this series is a dream of Ayu. :heh: I wonder if Ayu is really "locked in time"? Please correct me if I'm wrong: Earlier (In Ep 4 or 5) we saw young Ayu saying that her parents died, and yet now (in Ep 11) she's calling her parents then said they're on a vacation?
Klashikari
2006-12-16, 13:55
Again, the dream scene came back... Perhaps all this series is a dream of Ayu. :heh: I wonder if Ayu is really "locked in time"? Please correct me if I'm wrong: Earlier (In Ep 4 or 5) we saw young Ayu saying that her parents died, and yet now (in Ep 11) she's calling her parents then said they're on a vacation?
1) IIRC, ayu said her mother passed away, but she said nothing about her father, so it is possible that the term "parents" is referring to her father and a possible step mother
2) either way she is locked in the time (it is possible that when she lost the doll and/or when yuuichi left), or she is dead/ in comatose state and wandering with her memory before her death/coma.
as for the "vacation", i think ayu's memory is really fuzzly and she isn't really aware what is going on.
i think that ayu, when she is "back at home", is kinda put into a "shut down" state and doesn't really care about what she wa ssupposed to have done before and where she was. how come a ghost/memory leftovers, even with a physical manifestation can be back at her home? according the "dream" sequences, she had an accident while yuuichi was in the town, so it would be like 7 years that ayu was in a coma / is dead / or she was... swallowed by a time lapse (uh yeah, the last option is rather cheesy :heh: )
so, i think her spirit or whatever-it-is is wandering only at specific times, and fades away without herself knowing it. (the key events would be like... yuuichi following her at home or at her school or any interaction with her "supposed" friends and etc. )
sorry, i'm kinda crippled with some thoughts and the lack of english vocabulary is really killing my words >_>
Nightengale
2006-12-17, 02:38
Hmm....Apparently my Makoto speculation was pretty much 95% right on, only that I thought some miracle would occur in the end and Makoto returns to being a fox without memories of being Makoto, but apparently she's really gone for good.
Let's see if I got the others right.
Deathkillz
2006-12-17, 06:31
1) IIRC, ayu said her mother passed away, but she said nothing about her father, so it is possible that the term "parents" is referring to her father and a possible step mother
2) either way she is locked in the time (it is possible that when she lost the doll and/or when yuuichi left), or she is dead/ in comatose state and wandering with her memory before her death/coma.
as for the "vacation", i think ayu's memory is really fuzzly and she isn't really aware what is going on.
i think that ayu, when she is "back at home", is kinda put into a "shut down" state and doesn't really care about what she wa ssupposed to have done before and where she was. how come a ghost/memory leftovers, even with a physical manifestation can be back at her home? according the "dream" sequences, she had an accident while yuuichi was in the town, so it would be like 7 years that ayu was in a coma / is dead / or she was... swallowed by a time lapse (uh yeah, the last option is rather cheesy :heh: )
so, i think her spirit or whatever-it-is is wandering only at specific times, and fades away without herself knowing it. (the key events would be like... yuuichi following her at home or at her school or any interaction with her "supposed" friends and etc. )
sorry, i'm kinda crippled with some thoughts and the lack of english vocabulary is really killing my words >_>
hmm well if ayu is somehow stuck in the past then i would guess that her spirit is actually being resetted ~ kinda like riku in higurashi ~ but in this case ayu doesnt remember her past or is disillusioned by it (thinking that her parents are still there) but is still able to remember recent events that has happened...
well on the topic of her going home ~ does she even have one? O.o
i would tend to think that she disappears when she is by herself (kinda!?) if she is a spirit then her home could be when she shuts down (disappearing in exsistance) and they reappears as the program starts up again and she is rebooted back...but this is fatfetched T_T
basically what you have say ~ she fades in and out of exsistance when not with someone she knows (yuuichi) /bull
FatPianoBoy
2006-12-20, 00:00
Let's see... despite the large amount of Mai in episode eleven, we got very little insight into her motivations. Nice to get a better idea on what's going on, but we got next to nothing on why it's going on.
I think Kaori and Shiori are sisters. Shiori may also be the reason Kaori doesn't like being at home.
Kaori also seems to know something about miracles. Shiori is involved here as well, methinks.
Eating ice cream in freezing weather isn't normal for anyone but me, and especially not for a frail looking girl like Shiori. She's used to the cold for some reason. Maybe she's some kind of snow fairy in human form? But then, what about her and Kaori being sisters? This is gonna get interesting :heh:
Ayu has no parents. Maybe they're unable to communicate with her (similar to Makoto), maybe they're dead, or maybe she never had them to begin with. Either way, Ayu was obviously lying when she said that she forgot her parents were out of town. In fact, I doubt she even has a home, since she's been trying to (and finally succeeded in) moving into the Minase's house. This would explain why she never changes her clothes.
IRJustman
2006-12-20, 02:31
Ayu has no parents. Maybe they're unable to communicate with her (similar to Makoto), maybe they're dead, or maybe she never had them to begin with.
What, never had them to begin with? Could she call her parents a beaker and a test tube? *confused look*
Sorry about the overtly silly post. I simply could not resist. ;)
--Ian.
P.S. On a more serious note, you're right about one thing. Things will get MIGHTY interesting before too terribly long, especially since it looks like not one, but TWO, girls' arcs will get the royal KyoAni treatment.
Click on the following spoiler if you have watched episode 12 already. It regards a theory I've had about Mai since the episode.
In the instance where Mai is looking at an unconscious Sayuri, you saw what she saw from her eyes. It's different. Things are almost completely monotone except for the two. This suggests that Mai has an eyesight that allows her to see the demons that no one else can. However, if you took this theory the next step, could that mean that Mai is something above and beyond Human-ness as well?
Just a theory. = |
houkoholic
2006-12-22, 04:29
Wrong thread, moving post to episode 12.....
After watching Ep 12
Aaand you're right again (about Shiori being Kaori's sister). I'm beginning to suspect you... Are you sure you're a first time viewer?! :mad:
Hehe :p
Again we see Ayu waiting while sitting on a bench. But we saw Yuuichi arriving before, unless they promised to meet each other again?
So the doll was for her... angel-like doll... Ovbiously this is the thing she lost and is searching for. But why can't she remember...
And maybe I'm thinking too much into it but the way Yuuichi caughter her standing at midnight was suspicious... Maybe she was, uhh, doing-something-mysterious which made him get these dreams?
Kaori's sister! A sick Cinderella... Hmm... I don't know what to think about that.
The demons are not after Mai... they're after Sayuri then? Using Skane's post (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=776727&postcount=29) I'm beginning to think that Sayuri sees demons too. Else how did she know that the demon is moving towards her?
Also when Mai saw Sayuri collapsed, Mai had an angry glare... maybe she witnessed the same scene before... with Ayu? Next episode they'll meet, we'll definitely understand more.
Hm...from the ep13 preview we get to know that the demon was not after Mai... but after whom then? Could it be Ayu? As shown in the preview Yuuichi brings Ayu to school at night. The the demon, suposedly, for the first time seems to be going after some one else than Mai... i don't think that it was Yuuichi, because he has been there before and nothing like that happened...so the only one left(from the people present) is Ayu.
Hm...from the ep13 preview we get to know that the demon was not after Mai... but after whom then? Could it be Ayu? As shown in the preview Yuuichi brings Ayu to school at night. The the demon, suposedly, for the first time seems to be going after some one else than Mai... i don't think that it was Yuuichi, because he has been there before and nothing like that happened...so the only one left(from the people present) is Ayu.
Well, there's no rule that says the antagonist has to have a goal that s/he wants to achieve.
The demons in episode 12 plowed a straight line towards Sayuri. The demon in episode 4 may or may not have been going after Mai. Recall that in the beginning minutes of episode 4, Yuuichi was pushed to a wall by something we didn't see. At this point, I don't think there's enough conclusive evidence to say who and what the demons are after. They could be running amuck for the sake of destroying everything in sight.
But then that leaves the question of why these incidences occur exclusively inside school property and not the rest of the city.
At most what we know for certain is that when strange phenomenons occur, Mai is always there. But this isn't the first time a demon has attacked someone other than Mai...
Deathkillz
2006-12-22, 18:19
Click on the following spoiler if you have watched episode 12 already. It regards a theory I've had about Mai since the episode.
In the instance where Mai is looking at an unconscious Sayuri, you saw what she saw from her eyes. It's different. Things are almost completely monotone except for the two. This suggests that Mai has an eyesight that allows her to see the demons that no one else can. However, if you took this theory the next step, could that mean that Mai is something above and beyond Human-ness as well?
Just a theory. = |
ohh i like that :D yep i noticed it too...well i would think of it like mai has some kind of spirit vision and could only see normal people as one colour while people with special qualities as colourful ~ heh kinda reminds me how snakes (cobras) have heat detectors and can pin point heat :heh:
well this could also explain whe she was able to tell that makoto was special...maybe she could see that makoto was really a fox and wouldnt have lasted any longer given her current condition...
and onto who the monsters are really after...well i think from the preview that its certain that they are not after mai...but also they can be after sayuri after she was battered away...my bets are on yuuichi (yep hes one unlucky fellow :p) ~ also the way mai talks to yuuichi about the monsters in the preview heavily points at him being targeted...but why is ayu there? just for a visit? or did mai ask him to bring her?
well ther isnt enough evidence yet but its either yuuichi or ayu...but if it is one of them then why has mai protected the school at night for such a long time...even before yuuichi has shown up? *headaches* >.<
Klashikari
2006-12-22, 18:25
In the instance where Mai is looking at an unconscious Sayuri, you saw what she saw from her eyes. It's different. Things are almost completely monotone except for the two. This suggests that Mai has an eyesight that allows her to see the demons that no one else can. However, if you took this theory the next step, could that mean that Mai is something above and beyond Human-ness as well?
i don't really think that change of the sight is somewhat linked with mai's power
instead, the graphical eye effect is possibly done to emphasis the importance of the scene (just like makoto's blurry sight when yuuichi brought her back at home)
the fact sayuri is coloured means that she is the most important part of the scene for mai, while her with the weird colour shows how much she is affected by it. again, this is also my opinion. (but if we talk about demons, it doesn't make sense why sayuri is coloured then)
but well, until sayuri shows some bogus mahou shoujo things, errr XD
as for the demons objective, they are indeed weird. (probably random rampage)
but it appears that there are 3 conditions : mai being there, night time and the school area. or else, mai would already be beaten to death in her own house etc
Nightengale
2006-12-23, 01:34
Mai Joke Theory by Night-Gun-Gale, alter-ego #3. NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY.
The ghost/demon/spirit/whatever Mai is fighting is SAI! Apparently, Sai didn't return to the heavens upon his dissapearance from Hikaru's side, but rather actually turned into a demonic ghost spirit for staying in the mortal realm for too long. Due to him turning semi-demonic, he has lost all rational and is driven only by his instinct and parental/brotherly-love towards Hikaru and decides to become human and restore his memories/mind/undemonic presence by possessing someone who is living, thus restoring him from the demonic curse of a ghost in the human realm. However, it is only possible to possess someone who can see him, and therefore he travels all around Japan until he found someone who could see him...
Mai.
And it there that he started his battles with Mai to take over her body. In order to return to Hikaru as his mentor and his guide, both mentally and physically.
I would hail Kyoto Animation as GOD if it really turns out as it is above.
Klashikari
2006-12-29, 07:28
Ep 12 is up, so let's see what we have learned !
ayu :
nothing really new. Mai said that ayu was brave and still waiting.
let's be honest : who/what would ayu wait for "so" long?
Akiko mentionned that she was waiting until now... perhaps ayu was waiting for yuuichi ? (with that amount of "dream" sequences, we can say that ayu is unable to live correctly but still wait for yuuichi, which would explain mai's comment)
yeah, it seems a bit obvious, sorry if it was already said ~~
shiori
meh... the probability that 2 persons named exactly with the same first and last name, are in the same city/school is rather low-none.
and, according how shiori reacted at first, then denied it just confirm that shiori and kaori are sisters.
but i don't see the reason why kaori is acting like that : shouldn't be more concerned about shiori because of her decease?
rather, she is acting the complete opposite oO
Nayuki : N O T H I N G (this is depressing >_>)
Mai
fuhoho... she has no friend other than Sayuri and yuuichi... EXCEPT, someone, a LONG time ago...
yuuichi was the little playboy with mai, back when they were children (holy cow, yuuichi sure had a busy agenda, and still has it XD)
*thinks* hey... i really want to yell "eureka" but... i guess it is not a solid proof... yet XD
since he was her only friend => we can now understand why she became so lonely, silent, cold, indifferent etc etc [insert ice-like attitude]
now... the interesting part is here : the demons are targetting yuuichi now.
this is interesting, since it gaves some depths about the pattern of the demons.
since yuuichi is back, shouldn't be normal that the "enemies" are taking down the main hero? XD (yeah, the "defend the wheat field from the demons attacks" is really sticking my mind...thanks to skane and richard... i really dunno if i'm right :heh: )
With regards about Nayuki, KyoAni has been portraying the central theme(s) of her arc brilliantly in the past 13 episodes so far. Once the series is over and done, and the end-discussion begins, I will explain more in detail about it.
For the moment, remember what you have seen and keep it in mind. When everything is over, and you begin to rewatch the entire series, you will be surprised at how subtle KyoAni has been in setting up Nayuki's arc for the future.
Cheers.
Deathkillz
2006-12-29, 09:02
and until that time comes i cant wait :)
well ayu and shiori has already been covered above so ill talk about mai and yuuichi ~
well the demons (as expected) are targeting yuuichi...why is this? well imo its linked with his past and mai's past (well duh) ~ mai herself stated that she did have a friend that disappeared a long time ago and that it was a "he" ~ strongly points a yuuichi with this being his show and all :heh:
well imo when yuuichi left mai ~ something must have happened that shook her up soo much to have caused her to imagine and realize these demons up ~ well i actually think that she aimed for these demons to go find yuuichi subconciously...that is why they are targeting yuuichi...she wanted these demons to find her long lost friend but at the same time has been fighting against them over the years as she doesnt know anything of them except that they are a threat for some unknown reason (well it is her subconcious that caused the demons to spawn) ~ and now that yuuichi has showed up (being the long lost friend) the demons are homing in onto him saying "ive found you" ~ what mai still doesnt get is why they are after him...and by saing "who are you" it seals in that they have a certain connection together...
Ultima_Rasengan05
2006-12-30, 05:32
i"m a first time kanon viewer and i gotta say this series has got me hooked!!
at first i thought the series was gonna be slow as each episode revealed a new girl that has connections with Yuuichi through his childhood past
but then it soon picked up the pace once the show focused on Makoto"s past and what she really is!!!
probably it was one of the most saddest moments i have ever seen in all the animes i have ever seen was when
Makoto died and when Yuuichi was spending his last moments with Makoto on top of Scenic hill playing with her bell bracelet together with Makoto!!
but then after Makoto"s story then came the focus of Mai"s story and it gets even more better!!
when Yuuichi starts to get to know Mai more better by meeting up with her in the night and during school time and through Sayuri also!!
and i love Sayuri"s laugh when she says "ahahaha~" its so cute!!
and when it came down to the school dance that night and there was the demon that invaded the school gym
that was pretty cool
i thought this show was all about love and stuff and wont show action
but i guess i was wrong!!:heh:
and to all those people who watched "THE MELANCHOLY OF HARUHI SUZUMIYA"
the interior of the school"s gym looks exactly similar to that in "THE MELANCHOLY OF HARUHI SUZUMIYA" where Haruhi performed with ENOZ for the school festival
and in episode thirteen
when Mai was giving the Student Committee President a warning about not to hurt Sayuri again
when they closed up on her angry face
i swear she looked like Yuki!!
and yea thats about it!!
too bad episode fourteen isn"t out until next year (which is next year though but feels far away still yet)
and Kanon has gone into my top three list of my "TOP THREE ANIMES OF THIS YEAR" hahahahahhahah
so thats it i guess!:heh: :uhoh:
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-01, 23:13
After watching Ep 12
Aaand you're right again (about Shiori being Kaori's sister). I'm beginning to suspect you... Are you sure you're a first time viewer?! :mad:
Hehe :p
I promise. I hadn't even heard of Kanon until the remake was announced, and I haven't gone back and watched '02 or played the game. I'm avoiding spoilers, too. I just pick up on stuff quick. My mom does the same thing. It drives everyone around us absolutely nuts :heh:
a.f.k. finally dropped 12 :D
Shiori's probably terminal. School is useless if you're never going to grow up, so why go? :(
Nayuki's narcolepsy isn't just for laughs. And even Ayu, who could probably run a marathon without breaking a sweat, complimented her running. More clues.
Ayu's a habitual liar :heh:. I just thought of something: is that UFO machine outside that bakery-turned-bookstore we saw back around episode three or four? I don't have the episode on this computer, so I can't check. Also: Ayu sprouts wings in the OP, her backpack has wings, people joke about her being an angel, and she begs U1 for a little angel doll out of a UFO machine. The theory still doesn't sit quite right with me, but it's at least looking possible.
And the... whatever that thing is is actually after Yuuichi? Or is it Sayuri?. I think the reason we only "see" it on school grounds has something to do with the field the school was built on. Mai can see it because she has some connection with it (I think she's a rabbit or something), and Sayuri also likely has a similar connection, since she seems to be able to see it, as well. I'm beginning to wonder if U1's dislike of hospitals (who remembers this little hint from episode one? :p) has anything to do with one or both of these s.
Devil Doll
2007-01-02, 16:41
Wonderful read, this thread. Keep up the guessing.
As for who remembers what, I miss a reference to one particular line of a character whose name I'm not telling... someone asking Yuuichi a question.
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-06, 19:33
Darn, I was wrong - the demons are after Yuuichi, not Sayuri.
Is that jam actually a big clue to a much larger picture? I'm pretty sure it's just comic relief, but at this point I'm willing to accept anything as a clue...
I wonder if those bunny ears are a hint about Mai...
And could Yuuichi be the friend she lost?
Also, it seems like Sayuri is much smarter/more perceptive than she lets on.
[/obvious]
Mai refused to help the Uguued One. Ayu must be giving off bad vibes. Or maybe Mai doesn't trust her because she knows something like she did with Makoto. Interesting.
And it seems Ayu does go to school (or whatever she thinks passes for one), but it's way over near the forest. If Ayu's a bird, I won't know what to think.
I'm beginning to lean away from the Mai = Bunny idea, but I do have to wonder where she gets those hyperbolic combat skills from :heh:
Shiori's lying about being Kaori's sister? Hurr? There aren't any incestuous feelings flying around that would make Kaori hate Shiori, right ? Shiori does seem to really like her sister... :uhoh:
Is there some psychic link between Piro and Nayuki? They seem to sleep, eat, and wake up at the same times. There's something going on with Nayuki and cats beyond the 'OMG cute!!' level. I just can't put my finger on what it is.
Klashikari
2007-01-06, 19:59
Darn, I was wrong - the demons are after Yuuichi, not Sayuri.
Is that jam actually a big clue to a much larger picture? I'm pretty sure it's just comic relief, but at this point I'm willing to accept anything as a clue...
I wonder if those bunny ears are a hint about Mai...
And could Yuuichi be the friend she lost?
Also, it seems like Sayuri is much smarter/more perceptive than she lets on.
[/obvious]
Mai refused to help the Uguued One. Ayu must be giving off bad vibes. Or maybe Mai doesn't trust her because she knows something like she did with Makoto. Interesting.
And it seems Ayu does go to school (or whatever she thinks passes for one), but it's way over near the forest. If Ayu's a bird, I won't know what to think.
I'm beginning to lean away from the Mai = Bunny idea, but I do have to wonder where she gets those hyperbolic combat skills from :heh:
Shiori's lying about being Kaori's sister? Hurr? There aren't any incestuous feelings flying around that would make Kaori hate Shiori, right ? Shiori does seem to really like her sister... :uhoh:
Is there some psychic link between Piro and Nayuki? They seem to sleep, eat, and wake up at the same times. There's something going on with Nayuki and cats beyond the 'OMG cute!!' level. I just can't put my finger on what it is.
Mai
-i will repeat myself : EUREKA! :heh: and yes, there is absolutely no doubt that yuucihi was the lost friend mai had a while back (screw the 7 years ago !)
the fact mai said "he run away/left me too" means... mai thought it is because of her power according the tone, and her other quote "he disappeared, just like everyone else".
since we know that yuuichi was that boy, and he triggered even more demons, mai and yuuichi definitavely played some "demon hunting" game just before he left (the second main hero is here, so why not more enemies to keep the balance?)
Ayu
-the fact it is near of the forest was also big... especially how yuuichi was surprised.
could it be, there is some link with the monomi hill (not sure of the name) and the big tree we see in the OP and ayu memories?
Shiori
-as for shiori and kaori, it is plain... well not enough information. but such yuri/incesteous fantasy is rather out of the picture if you ask me.
Nayuki
-nayuki and piro are sure synchronized XD
Deathkillz
2007-01-06, 20:20
well well ep 14 was exsplosive ~
for mai and sayuri ~
crazy...to think that sayuri would be injured like that and lying on the floor...i thought she was dead for a secong and looking at how mai reacted i think she would have though so too ~
well as expected the demons are targeting yuuichi bla bla...but the questions still looms...why are there demons in the first place? imo i think i know why...because mai was so shocked at the disappearence of her friend he mind created subconciously demons in order to search for the boy...but not knowing anything herself she thought that the demons were after her and started to attack them ~ well when yuuichi returned the demons home in on him and there we have the situation ~
so what will happen after the demons are defeated...my guess is that mai would "remember" back and realise who yuuichi is...but somehow i dont think that its dramatic enough >.< but its the best i can come up with...
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-06, 20:51
well as expected the demons are targeting yuuichi bla bla...but the questions still looms...why are there demons in the first place? imo i think i know why...because mai was so shocked at the disappearence of her friend he mind created subconciously demons in order to search for the boy...but not knowing anything herself she thought that the demons were after her and started to attack them ~ well when yuuichi returned the demons home in on him and there we have the situation ~
so what will happen after the demons are defeated...my guess is that mai would "remember" back and realise who yuuichi is...but somehow i dont think that its dramatic enough >.< but its the best i can come up with...
Crap, you beat me to it. The exact same thing (I mean exact) occurred to me as I was watching 14 a second time (it's just that good :D). Very nice.
After revisiting the episodes again, I've struck a theory as to what Ayu may be searching for. You know that one flashback Yuuichi had in episode 12 about this angel doll he got for Ayu in a game machine? That could be it.
It's interesting that Shiori did not appear in episode 14. In the previous episode, she said she was going to a checkup with the doctor and wouldn't be at school that day. She wasn't there that day... but neither was the day after. I wonder if Yuuichi finding out something so important about Shiori (remember she hid her last name intentionally because she would be seen by him to be a bit cooler) made her distant herself from him. Or maybe we're just putting her on suspension since this is the Mai subplot at the moment and I'm just taking things too far. lol
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-08, 23:28
Or maybe we're just putting her on suspension since this is the Mai subplot at the moment and I'm just taking things too far. lol
That's my bet. Doesn't mean you're wrong, but Ayu got put on hiatus for several episodes during Makoto's arch. Doesn't mean she wasn't up to anything in the meantime, I guess, but it doesn't mean she was, either.
Hmm I'm not sure if I should put this here, but I think it would be a fun list for first timers. It can contain some spoiled content, but as long as you've seen up to episode 11, you're pretty safe, since I also tried not to reveal too much details.
This list is still incomplete.
If you would like to add more to it or argue a point about it shouldn't be on list. I'm all ears.
Important Focus, things to think about, to look out for.
The Key Events, Highlights, or Clues
Episode 01:
- The opening narration and scenary
- Day one, arrival.
- Day two, the next morning.
- During the afternoon:
- Yuuichi's comment about the school area used to be a field of barley.
- Sayuri and Mai's scene with the doggy.
- Nayuki pointing out where the hospital is and Yuuichi's comment about it.
- A girl walking with someone pass Nayuki and Yuuichi, that appear to look like an adult.
- The fox during the hill scene.
- Nayuki's comment about how the fox on the hill are a special kind
- The cat at the taiyaki stand
- Ayu's way of running off
- During the evening:
- The alarm clock Yuuichi borrowed
Episode 02:
- Opening scene of Ayu's Narration, the window view.
- Day three, the next morning
- Nayuki's unusual sleepy nature.
- Akiko's special jam.
- Nayuki's question asking if Yuuichi remembers "this" area.
- During the Afternoon:
- Yuuichi's touring the campus, getting lost, showing various scene to take note of:
- The end stairway area.
- The roof top.
- The court yard.
Fun note:
- Ayu gathering Shiori's belongings in a mere second!
Episode 03:
- Ayu's opening narration
- Day three, during the evening:
- Makoto's memory and behavior
- Day four, during the morning:
- During the afternoon:
- Shiori's illness and the person she's waiting for
- Yuuichi's absent mindness toward Nayuki
- Ayu's memory and lost item
- During the evening:
- Mai's scene
Episode 04:
- Ayu's opening narration
- Day five, during the morning:
- The two girls walking pass Yuuichi
- Kaori's statement about not wanting to be home
- Day five, during the evening:
Episode 05:
- Ayu's opening narration and scene
- Day five, Continuing the evening:
- Makoto's sudden change in behavior
- Day six, during the morning:
- Yuuichi's comment to Ayu about the special jam
- During the evening:
- Mai's comment towards Yuuichi to be kind to Makoto
Episode 06:
- Ayu's opening narration and scene
- Day seven, during the morning:
- Akiko's comment about Ayu; "It could be that she was waiting for you all this time."
- During the evening:
- Yuuichi's comment about Ayu looking like a boy
- Mai's comments about Matoko
Episode 07:
- Day Eight, during the evening:
- The appearance of Amano-san
Episode 08:
- Day Nine, during the morning
- Yuuichi's memory returned about Makoto
- Day Ten, during the morning
- Makoto's condition
- Amano Mishio's introduction
- During the night
- Yuuchi's flashback
- Day Eleven, during the evening
- Amano's explaination of miracles
Episode 09:
- Day Twelve, during the afternoon
- The bell that Yuuichi bought for Makoto
- Day Thirteen, during the night
- Makoto's fever
- Day Fourteen, during the morning
- Makoto's childish behavior
- During the night
- Meeting with Amano
- Day Fifteen
Episode 10:
- Day Sixteen
- Day Seventeen
- Day Eighteen
- Amano's narration and the images following after it
Episode 11:
- Ayu's opening narration
- Day Nineteen
- Day Twenty
Misc:
Re-used Frame:
Episode 08 - Spotted at around 05:55
Episode 14 - Spotted at around 05:40
Deathkillz
2007-01-12, 17:05
and so...the mai arc ends ~ next up is what ive waited for all this time...ever since i saw her...the goddess shiori! :love:
so speculation? ill start things off by saying that shiori is suffering from something serious...but the fact that she is skipping classes but at the same time going out in the cold shows that she isnt a natural human...kinda like mai and her powers...well im hopeful for another teary end to this ;)
Devil Doll
2007-01-12, 22:40
(content deleted after reconsidering a particular scene.)
After watching Ep 15
Congratulations Deathkillz for guessing semi-correctly the origins of Mai's demons! :D
If she was truely sick, we can hope that Mai can cure her? I really hope she's normal. :heh: I'm not fond of foxes and magical powers.
In the Ep 15 thread, I understood from Skane's posts that there's a connection between Mai, Ayu and Yuuichi? Hmm... Must check those scenes again...
Hmm one important thing that hasn't revealed is why Yuuichi don't remember things about his past.
I'm hoping that in the end they don't reveal something like Yuiichi is in coma and everything strange that happens is some way connected to people who are sitting beside his bed... strange eh... And after everyones story is told he wakes up...
Yeah thats sounds very lame :heh:
and so...the mai arc ends ~ next up is what ive waited for all this time...ever since i saw her...the goddess shiori! :love:
so speculation? ill start things off by saying that shiori is suffering from something serious...but the fact that she is skipping classes but at the same time going out in the cold shows that she isnt a natural human...kinda like mai and her powers...well im hopeful for another teary end to this ;)
Deathkillz, are you REALLY a Kanon freshie!? O_o You seem so avid in the anime world. O.o
The mysteriousness of the city was spoken by Yuuichi in episode 3: "A girl who cannot remember what she lost, a girl who has no memory, and furthermore, I, who cannot remember what happened seven years ago." This statement, however only seemed to address Mai, Makoto, and Ayu. We've seen how fushigi (strange) Mai and Makoto are; Makoto's arc went kapoof without much remaining but a memory and a sticker photo. Mai, however, would seem to be able to live on. I'm hoping we will continue to see her and how knowing her trustworthy friend from a decade past will affect her. However, I don't think her powers have disappeared at all; in fact, they will continue to remain with her. But I think Mai can accept what makes her different now and all the phenomenons and demons can finally be put to an end.
If Mai chooses to hold back on the use of her powers, then I don't expect to see anything abnormal for the rest of the anime. Shiori and Nayuki seem like ordinary schoolgirls who are oblivious to all the strange happenings we've seen. They have strange quirks but I think that is their personality at work, not something mysterious. It should be relatively soap opera drama from this moment on. Well, that's my hope. If it did turn out into something out of the ordinary, I welcome it too. In the end, it doesn't really matter to me.
I've long since enjoyed watching the polite female character, the one who uses "desu/masu" all the time. So I'm looking foward to seeing what will become of her. But it hasn't even started yet...short of what appears to be a date. In this case, anything goes...normal or abnormal. We'll see.
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-13, 19:05
We've gotten very little on Shiori so far. All we really know is that:
She eats ice cream in winter
Her sister doesn't much like her
She has some kind of illness (possibly terminal and miracle-related; also may have something to do with why Kaori doesn't like her)
And... that's about it.
My guess is that she's some kind of being that has some kind of connection to snow and/or winter. I realize that sounds very vague, but I'm not familiar with anything in Shintoism that fits the bill for what I'm thinking, so I can't be much more descriptive.
It's also very likely that she's a human, possibly with special powers like Mai. If she were something other than human, then her sister would also be that same kind of thing. What those special powers would be... I honestly have no idea. KyoAni quit dropping any significant hints after Makoto's arch. At least, nothing on the level of what they were doing with Makoto.
I'm pretty sure I heard Ayu's voice foretelling Mai's meeting with Yuuichi just before he fell on her. This would add support to the idea that Ayu is some other-worldly being, possibly even an angel.
Devil Doll
2007-01-13, 20:53
I'm pretty sure I heard Ayu's voice foretelling Mai's meeting with Yuuichi just before he fell on her. This would add support to the idea that Ayu is some other-worldly being, possibly even an angel.I had the same impression but got corrected by people who know the game, stating that voice was the voice of Mai's "power".
MakubeX2
2007-01-13, 21:00
I'm pretty sure I heard Ayu's voice foretelling Mai's meeting with Yuuichi just before he fell on her. This would add support to the idea that Ayu is some other-worldly being, possibly even an angel.
The similarities between Mai's voice and Ayu's voice can be interpreted as Tamura Yukari and Horie Yui as good friends in real life, so they have each other's influence even on the job.
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-13, 21:12
I had the same impression but got corrected by people who know the game, stating that voice was the voice of Mai's "power".
Aww... but I was finally onto something about Ayu :sad:
Deathkillz
2007-01-13, 21:13
Deathkillz, are you REALLY a Kanon freshie!? O_o You seem so avid in the anime world. O.o
If Mai chooses to hold back on the use of her powers, then I don't expect to see anything abnormal for the rest of the anime. Shiori and Nayuki seem like ordinary schoolgirls who are oblivious to all the strange happenings we've seen. They have strange quirks but I think that is their personality at work, not something mysterious. It should be relatively soap opera drama from this moment on. Well, that's my hope. If it did turn out into something out of the ordinary, I welcome it too. In the end, it doesn't really matter to me.
oh i assure i am a first time enjoyer of this amazing series ;)
and if i were to think ~ i think that mai doesnt have any more magic powers...the sayonara given by "hope" to yuuichi seems pretty final...and the evidence is there...mai killed off her own powers one by one T_T
We've gotten very little on Shiori so far. All we really know is that:
She eats ice cream in winter
Her sister doesn't much like her
She has some kind of illness (possibly terminal and miracle-related; also may have something to do with why Kaori doesn't like her)
And... that's about it.
My guess is that she's some kind of being that has some kind of connection to snow and/or winter. I realize that sounds very vague, but I'm not familiar with anything in Shintoism that fits the bill for what I'm thinking, so I can't be much more descriptive.
It's also very likely that she's a human, possibly with special powers like Mai. If she were something other than human, then her sister would also be that same kind of thing. What those special powers would be... I honestly have no idea. KyoAni quit dropping any significant hints after Makoto's arch. At least, nothing on the level of what they were doing with Makoto.
yea so far there hasnt been much on shiori which makes me annoyed >.<
but the preview drops some pretty big hints...first thing off shiori is on a date with yuuichi...which will probably the most happiest event for shiori in her life...this also indecates that she might get a visit from shinigami san :( ~ the other pointer in this is when she said "it'll be nice if we can do this as much as time will allow" ~ man those words hurt...its has death written all over it >.<
and the final hinter...there is one more place where shiori wants to go at the end of the date...where? O.o
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-13, 21:15
and the final hinter...there is one more place where shiori wants to go at the end of the date...where? O.o
Maybe she wants Yuuichi to help her pick out a coffin ;)
Now there's a fun outing.
[/black humor]
Deathkillz
2007-01-13, 21:18
Maybe she wants Yuuichi to help her pick out a coffin ;)
Now there's a fun outing.
[/black humor]
and the funny thing is...i was actually thinking about that and was expecting someone to say the same thing ~ you win a cookie XD i mean...nooo! thats a nasty way to treat my love T_T ~ yuuichi better not be the one digging the grave or ill push him in first! :mad: :heh:
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-13, 21:39
and the funny thing is...i was actually thinking about that and was expecting someone to say the same thing ~ you win a cookie XD i mean...nooo! thats a nasty way to treat my love T_T ~ yuuichi better not be the one digging the grave or ill push him in first! :mad: :heh:
Well... if (read: when) it happens, it's not like it'll be Yuuichi's fault (unless it already is :uhoh:) for helping her get through it, you know. If anything, I'd think that would be quite a caring thing to do on Yuuichi's part; to help her through those unpleasant things, letting her know it would all be taken care of properly, and most importantly spending time with her in her time of need.
Devil Doll
2007-01-13, 21:44
yuuichi better not be the one diggingSome quotes are just... priceless. :D
Richard 23
2007-01-13, 21:50
Maybe she wants Yuuichi to help her pick out a coffin ;)
Now there's a fun outing.
So, you have seen Kanon before or played the game. I can't wait to see how KyoAni animates that scene! ("Rosewood, mahogony, or teak?") It was really dark, but actually adds a lot of flavour to the Kanon series (think Akkiko's jam (http://www.moemoerabu.net/2007/01/08/kanon-14-want-to-know-keys-version-of-akikos-jam/) -- scroll down). Poor Piro! (http://forums.visualnews.net/showpost.php?p=18591&postcount=61) I hated that scene. :frustrated:
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-13, 21:56
Uh... no, I haven't, actually. I wouldn't be posting in the speculation thread for first-timers if I had :rolleyes:
I appreciate the minor spoiler, though :mad:. There goes my 'how'd I get that right? :twitch:' moment, too...
Richard 23
2007-01-13, 22:14
LOL, FPB. j/k. ;)
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-13, 22:17
LOL, FPB. j/k. ;)
Oh.
In the future, you may want to note that you jest in the same post. I -1'ed you for that :uhoh:
Richard 23
2007-01-13, 22:24
Oh.
In the future, you may want to note that you jest in the same post. I -1'ed you for that :uhoh:
Meanie! You were in suspense for a whole 20 minutes? What do I get for high rep points anyway? Heh. Sorry, FPB. No harm intended. I thought it was funny, but I guess I'm alone on that... ;)
Gomen nasai.
By the way, the "poor Piro" link was a gag too. It's safe for new Kanon viewers, 'cause it never happened. Again, sorry for the trauma. :heh:
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-13, 22:45
Well, it was funny; I just didn't know it was a joke at the time :heh:
And the 'poor piro' was quite awesome.
Noppapana
2007-01-18, 20:01
okay
i am starting to think that something is wrong with Ayu
not sure what but its something more terrible then makoto
its a speculation
Deathkillz
2007-01-19, 14:18
okay
i am starting to think that something is wrong with Ayu
not sure what but its something more terrible then makoto
its a speculation
well considering that ayu is ment to be the main girl i can guess what weve seen so far isnt close to what is gonna happen to her >.<
and now for shiori...
the pain and horror of seeing kaori at the end of ep 16 was nasty...it made an impact on me telling me that shiori's condition is no where near a common cold...this is bad...and also the metaphors that shiori uses doesnt make the situation look any brighter either >.<
well she still has a wish...i guess she wants to go happily with yuuichi by her...according to the doctors she wouldnt survive the next week...but i think her birthday date comming up hold some significance ~ maybe she can hold out and another miracle will unfold? i dont want anything to happen to my poor shiori :sad: but i guess if anything does ill will be feeling what makoto fans felt T_T
After watching Ep 16
From that scene in the hospital... Ayu is running away from pressure, Ayu doesn't like hospitals, Ayu is recognized by the doctor. I think that Ayu doesn't accept the death of her mother who was hospitalized. But there's more...
God, the doctor knew her. She gave her the same look Akiko-san gave her when they first met. It must be connected to her injury...
Her calmness when dealing with her sick mother, is it maturity or... she's used to that because of a hidden secret? >_> People saying that she gives Kaede vibes makes me think that Nayu is a mad killer in night which explains why she sleeps so much. :heh:
She better not die... Does anyone remember what she said to Yuuichi in the early episodes? "I'm waiting for a place--" something...
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-19, 18:18
Well, well, well...
Shiori's terminal?! *shock*
So, we all saw that coming, right? :p
I'm beginning to feel more comfortable about Ayu. It's seems more like she's lying to avoid talking about things she'd rather forget (hence Mai's running comment).
Nayuki, however, is up to something. What, I don't know, but she's acting very suspicious. She not a cat, right? :uhoh:
Upcoming sad girl in snow moment?: Shiori collapses/gets much worse/is knocking on heaven's door, and Yuuichi steals her out of her hospital bed and rushes her down the hall to the resident healer. Unfortunately, her powers haven't come back yet, so a tear-jerking scene featuring Yuuichi pleading with Mai to at least try to save her, Mai complying, completely failing, and waterfalls all around as Shiori flatlines. I got $20 on this.
Ascaloth
2007-01-19, 22:54
Well, well, well...
Shiori's terminal?! *shock*
So, we all saw that coming, right? :p
I'm beginning to feel more comfortable about Ayu. It's seems more like she's lying to avoid talking about things she'd rather forget (hence Mai's running comment).
Nayuki, however, is up to something. What, I don't know, but she's acting very suspicious. She not a cat, right? :uhoh:
Upcoming sad girl in snow moment?: Shiori collapses/gets much worse/is knocking on heaven's door, and Yuuichi steals her out of her hospital bed and rushes her down the hall to the resident healer. Unfortunately, her powers haven't come back yet, so a tear-jerking scene featuring Yuuichi pleading with Mai to at least try to save her, Mai complying, completely failing, and waterfalls all around as Shiori flatlines. I got $20 on this.
*takes FPB's $20*
:D
Deathkillz
2007-01-20, 04:43
Well, well, well...
Upcoming sad girl in snow moment?: Shiori collapses/gets much worse/is knocking on heaven's door, and Yuuichi steals her out of her hospital bed and rushes her down the hall to the resident healer. Unfortunately, her powers haven't come back yet, so a tear-jerking scene featuring Yuuichi pleading with Mai to at least try to save her, Mai complying, completely failing, and waterfalls all around as Shiori flatlines. I got $20 on this.
it soo crazy it might work :( but no your $20 will go to waste as shiori will live!!! :mad: /denial
Well, well, well...
Shiori's terminal?! *shock*
So, we all saw that coming, right? :p
I'm beginning to feel more comfortable about Ayu. It's seems more like she's lying to avoid talking about things she'd rather forget (hence Mai's running comment).
Nayuki, however, is up to something. What, I don't know, but she's acting very suspicious. She not a cat, right? :uhoh:
Upcoming sad girl in snow moment?: Shiori collapses/gets much worse/is knocking on heaven's door, and Yuuichi steals her out of her hospital bed and rushes her down the hall to the resident healer. Unfortunately, her powers haven't come back yet, so a tear-jerking scene featuring Yuuichi pleading with Mai to at least try to save her, Mai complying, completely failing, and waterfalls all around as Shiori flatlines. I got $20 on this.
That sounds good, but i think you will lose those 20$ :D If Shiori gets a visit from Momo (god damn, she better not... i want her to live T.T), i bet that will happen at the fountain ... Shiori mentions herself that the place is important to her... and she is standing near it in the OP as well... So i am placing my 20$ on a tearjerker near the fountain, with Yuuichi by her side.
Forgive me if I've missed it, but is it ever explained why Yuuichi is actually moving there to complete his schooling? Just an odd thing that I would think would have come up...
fireshark
2007-01-20, 21:49
His parents are moving overseas to a location where Swahili is spoken.
Devil Doll
2007-01-20, 23:04
...which is the explanation Kanon 2002 gave the audience while Kanon 2006 didn't answer this question yet.
I doubt it'll ever be explain in 2006 version, considering how far into the series we're at already. Having Yuuichi later explain why he suddenly came back to this town would take a step backwards into how the story is progressing atm, since character introduction is 14+ episodes over already. Yuuichi never really introduced himself to us, so first time viewers are like... Who's Yuuichi still? Why he came back to a town he left 7yrs ago for? How did he even remember about the town, let alone coming back to it !!! -etc -etc.
So, I've been decently accurate so far on my guesses on the Kanon character's situations. I'd wagered that Makoto was a fox-spirit (and was attached to Yuuichi because of something that happened in the past), noted that the demons might be Mai's 'inner demons' and projections of her own consciousness, and I somehow spot-on predicted that Shiori was terminally ill and Kaori avoided her to lessen the impact of Shiori's death.
My first prediction for Ayu was that she was actually dead and was really just a spirit (that somehow manages to interact with the physical world). I assumed that what she was searching for (but couldn't remember) was either the little angel doll Yuuichi gave her, or her grave. I based this on hints from the flashbacks, Akiko's 'recognition' of Ayu's name, Ayu's ignorance of the modern world, and the angel symbology around Ayu. I've revised this opinion as of episode 16.
I now suspect that Ayu's still alive, but in the hospital somewhere. Primarily, this is because of the doctor's 'recognition' of Ayu (like Akiko)--but the doctor 'recognized' Ayu without even hearing Ayu's name (Akiko needed to hear the name before she reacted). That means the doctor recognizes Ayu in her present, older form and could not have died seven years ago.
My problem is: if Ayu's alive, how is this reconciled with the 'angel' symbology around Ayu? She would have to die at the end of the story like Makoto did. But we've seen that Key was willing to have 'happy' endings as with Mai (who didn't die)--so what if there's a 'good end' where Ayu lives? The angel symbology fails...unless the 'spirit-form' projection is tied to the little angel doll that Yuuichi gave to Ayu long ago. The Ayu-Projection is either tied to angel symbology because of the importance of the doll to Real-Ayu, or because the spiritual Projection actually manifests around the actual doll. If the former, then the Ayu-Projection may be searching for the actual doll or her real body; if the latter, the Ayu-Projection may be searching for her real body (i.e. the thing she spent time searching for with Yuuichi).
Also, to explain Ayu's ignorance of the world despite being alive, I've adopted Garten's hypothesis that Ayu is merely comatose (and not dead). That doesn't really jive with my idea of spiritual-projection (since I usually don't think comatose people can project spirit-forms), but Kanon seems to play with the supernatural in unusual and unexplained ways (e.g. Mai's power), so I suppose I can buy the idea.
I still don't know what's up with Nayuki. I figure that a 'saddening and tragic obstacle' has to appear in each of the heroine's storylines, but I don't see the hints for what will be Nayuki's trial. I hypothesized, upon seeing Ayu panicked in the preview for episode 16, that Akiko would get hit by a bus or would magically be with child (okay, so I was just tossing out wild guesses because I was clueless), but that hasn't happened.
Right now I can only suppose that Akiko's illness will become worse. It's still not something I would wager on though (the only prediction I would have wagered on was Makoto being a kitsune). I mean, with Makoto falling ill, Shiori being terminally ill, and with Mai, Sayuri, and (possibly) Ayu all being hospitalized, it would be far too trite for Akiko to become devestatingly sick as well. Plus, Mai's mother, Sayuri's little brother, and Ayu's mother were also apparently terminally ill. I mean, give me a break.
....
....
....
Wait, there are so many ill people in Kanon that maybe I should wager on Akiko's illness becoming worse. It's practically a theme, so maybe I should expect it to happen rather than think that Key would have avoided it because it's been overused.
Okay, new prediction: Nayuki's storyline revolves around Akiko's illness becoming worse, and Akiko becomes hospitalized. With all these hospitalized people, this will also allow a chance for Yuuichi (or Ayu-Projection) to find Real-Ayu at the hospital.
(Wow, spent so much time writing that Animesuki logged me off. Usually I just sit back and enjoy what the show throws at me, so this is kinda unusual.... Garten's tendency to analyze shows has rubbed off on me.)
*claps for Grey* :D What do you think of Nayuki's sleepyness?
I don't think it's related to her going out in the middle of the night because:
-We saw Nayuki and Akiko waking up because of Makoto and Yuuichii's jokes.
-We saw Nayuki sleeping with Ayu and remained asleep when Ayu woke up early.
She has a weird aura around her... Like in the first episode she said to Yuuichi "I want you to get used to this town since you'll be living her forever". Then a close up "Forever and ever." Should I be scared? :heh:
*smacks her forehead* And I just noticed what Ayu said about her school. "It's near the forest". It must be the same forest which she
-played hide & seek (scene from the opening).
-appear with wings (opening) and sad face (ending).
-injured/died (scene from the first episode).
Hmm...
Thanks to the hints dropped in the episodes' thread, we discovered that there's a connection betwee Mai/Ayu and Nayuki/Ayu but I can't think of anything relating them. I should've noticed it since only those three appear as kids in the opening.
Speaking of the opening, I noticed that each girl appear in a background related to her. Like... Makoto in Monomi Hill, Mai in school and the wheat field, Shiori in school courtyard and near the fountain, Nayuki in her house and crying... she's the only one who appears crying. Waw, what a great opening sequence, we can get so much from it, hehe.
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-01-22, 15:27
man when i saw in episode 16 that
akiko was sick, i had a feeling that she might end up like Sayuri's little brother or Mai's mother, or maybe Ayu's mom...
anyways, i have a feeling also that ayu may be an
angel??.... i'm just suspecting that for now....hhmmmm
but then again as Grey said....some certain illness may be going around in the "Kanon" storyline thats pretty much revolving around each person's storyline....
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-22, 18:39
I now suspect that Ayu's still alive, but in the hospital somewhere. Primarily, this is because of the doctor's 'recognition' of Ayu (like Akiko)--but the doctor 'recognized' Ayu without even hearing Ayu's name (Akiko needed to hear the name before she reacted). That means the doctor recognizes Ayu in her present, older form and could not have died seven years ago.
I think the biggest hiccup in this idea is also the biggest support: the doctor. Imagine for a moment that you're a doctor who's been caring for a comatose patient for seven years. Then, one day, you see your patient is not only out of bed but talking happily with some friends in the corridor. How would you react?
Now, compare that with how the doctor reacted. If your reaction would be anywhere near the same as mine (somewhere between "OMG!" and :twitch:), I think you can see what I'm getting at.
She has a weird aura around her... Like in the first episode she said to Yuuichi "I want you to get used to this town since you'll be living her forever". Then a close up "Forever and ever." Should I be scared? :heh:Ahaha, I thought that scene was strange too! I especially liked the parody 4-koma where Nayuki was quite insane:
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1795/2006100901ul2.th.jpg (http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2006100901ul2.jpg)
I think the scene was just Kyo-Ani being silly, or making a mistake with their portrayal of Nayuki (i.e. making her look nutty). If they hadn't pulled the off-angle closeup right as Nayuki said "zutto, zutto" then the line would have sounded pretty harmless.
So far I've thought that Nayuki's sleepiness was just a harmless character trait, possibly caused by training for her club and schoolwork. But now you've made me a little suspicious of it.... Still, for now I don't see enough hints to indicate that Nayuki is losing sleep for other reasons.
*smacks her forehead* And I just noticed what Ayu said about her school. "It's near the forest". It must be the same forest which she
-played hide & seek (scene from the opening).
-appear with wings (opening) and sad face (ending).
-injured/died (scene from the first episode).
Hmm...Ah, good catch on the line about her school! I'd noticed that all the scenes had the same setting when I started looking at the OP/ED more closely, but I'd forgotten that line. Kyo-Ani really does drop hints everywhere....
I think the biggest hiccup in this idea is also the biggest support: the doctor. Imagine for a moment that you're a doctor who's been caring for a comatose patient for seven years. Then, one day, you see your patient is not only out of bed but talking happily with some friends in the corridor. How would you react?I think that can be explained by the doctor's sheer disbelief. For instance, I would probably assume that it's a different person that just looks very similar to the patient: "After all, if she's been comatose for seven years then she couldn't possibly be awake, perfectly fine, wearing different clothes (maybe), and wandering around chatting with other people her age who are apparently friends."
This is why the doctor has a brief moment of surprise/'recognition', and then says "oh, sorry, it's nothing" ("it must be someone else"). She assumed that it was her own mistake. If she had a slightly different personality then she might have wondered aloud "...Tsukimiya Ayu?"--and then we'd know for sure.
Deathkillz
2007-01-22, 20:09
Ahaha, I thought that scene was strange too! I especially liked the parody 4-koma where Nayuki was quite insane:
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1795/2006100901ul2.th.jpg (http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2006100901ul2.jpg)
I think the scene was just Kyo-Ani being silly, or making a mistake with their portrayal of Nayuki (i.e. making her look nutty). If they hadn't pulled the off-angle closeup right as Nayuki said "zutto, zutto" then the line would have sounded pretty harmless.
I think that can be explained by the doctor's sheer disbelief. For instance, I would probably assume that it's a different person that just looks very similar to the patient: "After all, if she's been comatose for seven years then she couldn't possibly be awake, perfectly fine, wearing different clothes (maybe), and wandering around chatting with other people her age who are apparently friends."
This is why the doctor has a brief moment of surprise/'recognition', and then says "oh, sorry, it's nothing" ("it must be someone else"). She assumed that it was her own mistake. If she had a slightly different personality then she might have wondered aloud "...Tsukimiya Ayu?"--and then we'd know for sure.
LOL...the parody is just golden :D nayuki getting that look in her eyes is cute enough to melt the ice caps ^__^
but i do think theres a hidden meaning behind the "zutto, zutto" ~ just imagine yuuichi being tied up when he finally realizes and plans to escape :heh:
and the doctor scene ~ well if she did say something then that would have spoilt the fun...kinda freaky thinking about how she seem to know ayu from somewhere ~ just adds to the mystery of "who is ayu" exactally ~ for one thing we know that she isnt normal as mai pointed out...and she sees a lot of things O.o like what happened to makoto if mai tells yuuichi to look after ayu ill be ready to get my tissues :(
That 4Koma is gold. :) Here's the translated version I collected back then.
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4636/kanon2006012rq.th.gif (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kanon2006012rq.gif)
Cheers.
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-22, 21:43
So far I've thought that Nayuki's sleepiness was just a harmless character trait, possibly caused by training for her club and schoolwork. But now you've made me a little suspicious of it.... Still, for now I don't see enough hints to indicate that Nayuki is losing sleep for other reasons.
Outside of the extremely obvious fact that Nayuki is desperately trying to subtely steal Yuuichi's attention and affection, we haven't gotten many good hints about her lately. So far the biggest clues are: sleeping, sweets, obsession with cats, and being extremely healthy. Add all that up and you've got... a slightly eccentric girl. More data required on Nayuki before good specualtion can be made.
I think that can be explained by the doctor's sheer disbelief. For instance, I would probably assume that it's a different person that just looks very similar to the patient: "After all, if she's been comatose for seven years then she couldn't possibly be awake, perfectly fine, wearing different clothes (maybe), and wandering around chatting with other people her age who are apparently friends."
This is why the doctor has a brief moment of surprise/'recognition', and then says "oh, sorry, it's nothing" ("it must be someone else"). She assumed that it was her own mistake. If she had a slightly different personality then she might have wondered aloud "...Tsukimiya Ayu?"--and then we'd know for sure.
Nope. I had a hunch, and I rewatched that sequence just now, and Shiori uses Ayu's name just before she walks off with the doctor. Ayu is not a common Japanese name, so unless the doctor is a complete ditz (doesn't seem like it), she'd have to put the two together.
My guess is that the doctor does know her from somewhere, but doesn't know her name. If you're admitted to a hospital, people are going to know your name. Most likely it was a while ago that the two met.
Ascaloth
2007-01-23, 06:41
Ayu is not a common Japanese name, so unless the doctor is a complete ditz (doesn't seem like it), she'd have to put the two together.
Ayu is not a common Japanese name, true. Ayumi (as in the worldwide famous Japanese star Hamasaki), on the other hand, is.
And you know how the Japanese are about shortening girls' names to make them sound cute. The doctor could well have been thinking the same way, and just dismissed it. :heh:
I know, not especially convincing, but still.
anyways, i have a feeling also that ayu may be an
angel??.... i'm just suspecting that for now....hhmmmm
I think, I have same feeling
I'm wondering why Mai did the same thing to Ayu as she did to Makoto when they met for the first time ( she stroked Makoto's hair, don't remember clearly though). She call Ayu あの子 - anoko (that kid, but in this case it's refers to non human being, I think. coz Mai always call people with their name and not uses any pronoun.), same way when she call Makoto.
This is my speculation for Ayu's mother.
When Akiko met Ayu and heared her name, seems she have remembered something. I guess Ayu's family name make her remember Ayu's mother who was her friend. Maybe their relation is like Yuuichi and Makoto. Ayu's mother left her coz her time is up ( just like Makoto).
Don't tell me most of the girls in Kanon are fox
Ascaloth
2007-01-23, 08:38
Not entirely true, Nagato. A couple of those girls are raccoons instead of foxes. :p
(No, it's not a spoiler, so don't dock my rep, FPB. I'm just screwing with Nagato because.....well, because I can. :p )
Not entirely true, Nagato. A couple of those girls are raccoons instead of foxes. :p
No they aren't.
Animal which Yuuichi and Nayuki met in the first episode is a 狐 - kitsune ( fox ) instead of racoon. And it's the same animal that Yuuichi treated (Makoto).
Deathkillz
2007-01-23, 11:39
Outside of the extremely obvious fact that Nayuki is desperately trying to subtely steal Yuuichi's attention and affection, we haven't gotten many good hints about her lately. So far the biggest clues are: sleeping, sweets, obsession with cats, and being extremely healthy. Add all that up and you've got... a slightly eccentric girl. More data required on Nayuki before good specualtion can be made.
Nope. I had a hunch, and I rewatched that sequence just now, and Shiori uses Ayu's name just before she walks off with the doctor. Ayu is not a common Japanese name, so unless the doctor is a complete ditz (doesn't seem like it), she'd have to put the two together.
My guess is that the doctor does know her from somewhere, but doesn't know her name. If you're admitted to a hospital, people are going to know your name. Most likely it was a while ago that the two met.
in other words nayuki's arc is still in cryofreeze but ahhh the good thing is if it isnt we would be bashing our heads in saying "how did we missed that clue!?" O.o by the end of her arc ~
and the doctor thing...well if its been x amount of years since the doc last saw ayu in her condition then she must have not made the connection cause it would have been impossible...people can look similar and she would have just thought of it as a mistake...even if she is still taking care of her...there is no way she can be walking around after just visiting her room ~ therefore she just concluded it as a mistake (maybe)
(No, it's not a spoiler, so don't dock my rep, FPB. I'm just screwing with Nagato because.....well, because I can. :p )
"i dont like it when people say that" *docks* :heh: j/k
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-23, 12:41
and the doctor thing...well if its been x amount of years since the doc last saw ayu in her condition then she must have not made the connection cause it would have been impossible...people can look similar and she would have just thought of it as a mistake...even if she is still taking care of her...there is no way she can be walking around after just visiting her room ~ therefore she just concluded it as a mistake (maybe)
I can get on board with this. What I was saying was that it's highly unlikely that Ayu is still in the hospital. In fact, it's pretty solid speculation that she was there at one time, since this is probably where Yuuichi gets his dislike of hospitals (having to see Ayu there possibly being traumatic). Faces are more strongly imprinted than names, and Ayu still looks just like she did seven years ago (:heh:), so it's no stretch to say that her face seemed familiar while her name did not.
@Ascaloth: As long as I can tell it's a joke, it's all good ;)
But do you have to be so pointed in making that known? :heh:
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-01-23, 16:45
i'm a first time watcher...but are you guyz saying that
there are two ayu's???
one thats living with Yuuichi, Nayuki, and Akiko??
and one is still in the hospital????!!!
if so then....woah!!
Ascaloth
2007-01-23, 20:27
@Ascaloth: As long as I can tell it's a joke, it's all good ;)
But do you have to be so pointed in making that known? :heh:
Better safe than sorry, FPB, especially where you're concerned. Better safe than sorry. ;) :heh:
@Ascaloth: As long as I can tell it's a joke, it's all good ;)
But do you have to be so pointed in making that known? :heh:
Nagato isn't used to joke, and boke is her way to do joke:heh:
In fact, have never seen her smile.
Simmiliar to Mai. But she smile when Yuuichi come to Hospital (EP 16).
Hope her character won't change and keep cool until the end. And maybe she is 宇宙人 like Nagato. Coz she know many thing about Makoto, Ayu, and their relation with Yuuichi. She know when those girls need Yuuichi's help. It seems, she is the key man in this Anime. We'll see more Yuuichi-Mai duet in the next episodes, maybe.
It is really fascinating to watch the speculation amongst first time watchers... in general, I'm pretty happy about what is being spotted or correctly guessed ... and what isn't :) :)
So! As of the most recent episode 17, we see that Akiko's still ill and that Nayuki's sleeping in class. So my hypothesis that Nayuki exhausts herself with schoolwork and club activities is out, but my worry that Akiko's illness will worsen remains in.
Remaining possible causes of Nayuki exhaustion: stress (if Akiko also is weak of constitution like Shiori, then Nayuki might lose sleep over that like Kaori--but this possibiliy seems unlikely); club activities; its cause is rooted in a backstory that we haven't seen yet; or it's just a harmless character trait.
Maybe she loses sleep stressing out about Yuuichi hanging out with all the other girls! Ahaha.
Anyway, this episode points out another speculation-worthy object: Ayu's headband. Didn't I see in a post somewhere that this was a TOEI plot-addition? If so, then speculation about the object itself is idle. On the other hand, it left me thinking about Ayu's family situation: apart from Yuuichi, I speculated that the only other person who could have given her the object would have been another family member. Since we've seen no siblings of hers, my first thought that was that her now-deceased mother gave it to her. Then I thought, "wait, what about her father?"
Young Ayu's situation in the flashbacks was a bit unusual.... At that age, and with her mother recently dead, wouldn't she be with her father instead of running around the city? I would suppose that either her father is dead, or she had poor relations with him. I'll have to see whether this becomes a plot point in future episodes.
Regarding Shiori/Kaori's storyline, I must say that there's not much to speculate on. Their paths are already laid out for us (e.g. Shiori miraculously recovers or not; Kaori reconciles with Shiori or not). I might as well flip a coin on the first issue, as it could go either way. However...I suppose I would wager that Kaori at least partially reconciles with Shiori. Yuuichi's relationship with Shiori has produced a 'happy atmosphere' on Shiori's end, and that coupled with Shiori's birthday party may create a situation with enough 'positive emotion' for Kaori to overcome the 'negative emotion' that causes her to avoid Shiori.
Oh, right, and Yuuichi ended this episode with the apparent resolution to get Kaori to spend time with Shiori. It wouldn't make for much of a story if Yuuichi fails and Shiori dies estranged from Kaori. There wouldn't be enough 'closure' unless Kaori moved away or died, or unless Yuuichi moved away (or died?!). But the latter option isn't a possibility, and the former two options would seem to remove too much of the cast and create too much of a gloomy mood. The only people left would be depressed or hospitalized.
Of course, if Shiori lives then she might have lots of time to reconcile with Kaori and create story closure. With either death or life, I suspect we'll see Kaori/Shiori reconcile.
Deathkillz
2007-01-27, 04:32
Oh, right, and Yuuichi ended this episode with the apparent resolution to get Kaori to spend time with Shiori. It wouldn't make for much of a story if Yuuichi fails and Shiori dies estranged from Kaori. There wouldn't be enough 'closure' unless Kaori moved away or died, or unless Yuuichi moved away (or died?!). But the latter option isn't a possibility, and the former two options would seem to remove too much of the cast and create too much of a gloomy mood. The only people left would be depressed or hospitalized.
Of course, if Shiori lives then she might have lots of time to reconcile with Kaori and create story closure. With either death or life, I suspect we'll see Kaori/Shiori reconcile.
but think about what if kaori doesnt reconcide with shiori ~ then we will have the tragic tearjerking scene with kaori realizing what a big mistake she did only after shiori's death ~ kinda like "its too late to regret now ~ youve had your chance and blown it" ~ it would have to be a totally evil scene to see kaori mourning her eyes out at the sight of ead shiori ~ but then again only if they have the balls to write such a story line :heh:
but ultimatly i do hope that shiori ends up alrite :(
and onto ayu's headband ~ something special huh? well it could be that it was yuuichi who gave it her but not that likely as he has already given her something in the past...i guess your speculation could be right...maybe it used to belong to her dead mother?
If you look back into the episodes with the flashbacks. You'll know Ayu wasn't wearing the red hairband and she already told young Yuuichi about her mother being gone. So it's not possible that her mother gave it to her. Otherwise, she would've wore it on that day she meet Yuuichi.
Deathkillz
2007-01-27, 06:37
^ good point so that will swing in favor of yuuichi's gift number 2 ~ but who can limit the speculation to there? what is stopping ayu's father giving her mother's headband to her after a period of time?
If it was her dad, it wouldn't logically fit with her "someone precious to me" answer. I dunno, it's probably b/c I don't have a strong relationship with my dad. I consider him family, not a precious someone. So it couldn't be him. Plus, wouldn't giving Ayu her mother's headband make it seem nothing more than a family trinket? lol
I think Grey puts it best. You're gonna have to choose sides over what's going to happen. Either it does or it doesn't.
But let's flip a three-sided coin in the process too. I just thought of a theory: what if this sister-sister relationship is a symbol of a deeper issue? What if the very reason Shiori is sick is because of Kaori's negative attitude to her plight? This would seem too bizzare and almost "Twilight Zone" storytelling, so my inclination is to say this can't be true. But I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case. In fact, I dunno if I would be disappointed by it!
But let's flip a three-sided coin in the process too. I just thought of a theory: what if this sister-sister relationship is a symbol of a deeper issue? What if the very reason Shiori is sick is because of Kaori's negative attitude to her plight? This would seem too bizzare and almost "Twilight Zone" storytelling, so my inclination is to say this can't be true. But I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case. In fact, I dunno if I would be disappointed by it!
You know.... as crazy as this sounds, i believe it is actually possible. :eyespin: And since Kanon is all about miracles, then how about this: Yuuichi manages to break Kaori's stubborn attitude towards Shiori, which in turn makes Shiori very happy, and she wants to continue living so much that she manages to overcome her illness (at least for now) :eyespin: .... tho it sounds uuber cheesy, i will admit that :heh:
Who gave Ayu the red headband? A gift from someone special...
-Not her mother. Ayu told Yuuichi about her mother's death wearing the white headband (Ep 2). Can't be a momento because Ayu specifically said "gift".
-Not Yuuichi. In Ayu's dream of her being dead and Yuuichi crying, she was still wearing the white headband (Ep 1).
-Not her father. Well, maybe... 10%. Like someone said previously, fathers' aren't mentioned in Kanon. I don't know, but I'm sure it's not her father...
but think about what if kaori doesnt reconcide with shiori ~ then we will have the tragic tearjerking scene with kaori realizing what a big mistake she did only after shiori's deathThat certainly would provide 'closure'! But if Kaori stubbornly refuses to reconcile with Shiori before her death, I don't think it would be in-character for her to simply 'realize her mistake' after Shiori's death. There would need to be some kind of trigger for the 'realization', and I can't see what it would be (after all, this assumes that Yuuichi failed to bring the two together before her death).
Haha, I must admit, it would be pretty gusty of them to have Shiori die at all. It would be pretty tough to run the next storylines through the doom-and-gloom atmosphere. Maybe the show would become nicknamed 'The Melancholy of KYuuichi'.
I dunno, it's probably b/c I don't have a strong relationship with my dad. I consider him family, not a precious someone.Well, if Ayu lost her mother that might make her even closer to her father. But I admit that I find the 'father' possibility to be pretty weak simply because we've never seen or heard of him.
What if the very reason Shiori is sick is because of Kaori's negative attitude to her plight?Hah! That's certainly an interesting possibility, and not impossible considering that Kanon's pretty full of the supernatural! But then we have a 'chicken-and-the-egg' situation, because Kaori must have first thought that Shiori was going to die else Kaori would never have had a negative attitude. It would be a tricky story maneuver to pull, but, then again, any Shiori recovery story would be tricky to pull off without making it seem contrived.
I'd wager on reconcilliation and death, but I'm still suspcious that Key/Kyo-Ani will pull off the tricky recovery. With Kaori and Shiori's lines about miracles, they've certainly created the setting for a miraculous recovery.
Maybe Kyo-Ani will pull a story of cycling miracles on us so that the balance between gloom and happiness doesn't get messed up. So following the pattern of Makoto (death), and Mai (miraculous recovery!), that means: Shiori (death), Nayuki (miraculous recovery!?), and Ayu (death?!?). Ahaha! More likely they'll have people in Nayuki and Ayu's storylines be in bad condition at the same time, but then have them both miraculously recover (or only Ayu).
Ugh, reasoning about the storyline based on how the balance of gloom and happy should be kept is tough. I'm not confident about my speculation at all.
Regarding Ayu's hairband: I missed it the first time, but Ayu blushes when she mentions that the headband was given to her by someone precious, which seems to symbolize that it was given to her by someone to whom she is attracted. (Blushes seem to generally indicate embarassment or attraction [or the pain of spicy curry!], if I'm not mistaken, and it didn't seem like she had a reason to be embarassed [and there was no curry in sight]). So either Kanon is using the blush in a non-standard way, or the headband was not given to Ayu by her parents.
Of course, as Lilith points out, it's difficult to see how Yuuichi might have given her the headband. Hadn't he already spent all his allowance on getting the angel doll (did her give her one of his own)? When did he have the time to get Ayu the headband?
Still...I'm not sure that it would 'flow' properly if Ayu was given the headband by a non-Yuuichi, precious male friend (they plan to introduce another important character at this time in the story?). Although I can come up with a few counter-arguments to that possibility, I admit it is a story event that could be properly woven into the general flow of things. I would wager that this non-Yuuichi would have to exist in the past and not the present though (because Kanon's adapted from an eroge and afaik such a storyline wouldn't work if he had competition).
Animesuki logged me off again because I spent too much time typing. -_-
FatPianoBoy
2007-01-27, 14:44
Maybe Ayu was given the headband by one of the doctors that cared for her. Blushing doesn't necessarily have romantic connotations; you can also blush when speaking on highly personal matters.
As for Kaori making Shiori sick, I'm inclined to give that one a 'no,' since Shiori says that she's been sickly all her life, so Kaori would have had to have resented Shiori from her birth. Kaori was a proper sister to Shiori until she found out she was terminal, so this doesn't quite work out.
Shiori's probably not going to make it. The only outcome involving a live Shiori that would be acceptable at this point would be Kaori sacrificing herself by being granted a miracle. The problem with this is that I'm not sure if miracles are open to non-kitsune :heh:. However, that would surely be a great way to end it.
No real data on Ayu (headband notwithstanding) or Nayuki this time.
The only thing I'm starting to feel aggrivated with at this point is Nayuki's sleep disorder (or lack thereof). I get the strange feeling that her story is being withheld purposefully through the use of having her sleepwalking daily - making her next to clueless with the fushigi events happening near Yuuichi. Whether this is so she doesn't ask questions about his undertakings or to delay her storyline is beyond me. But still, if the latter is true, Nayuki went from comedic to a funny with a pinch of obtrusiveness.
Nite folks. In 10 hours, Episode 18. RAWR.
Now that we are heading into Nayuki's and Ayu's arc, I would like to comment that after searching through this thread for a particular keyword, it surprised me that only ONE post made mention of it( with no further elaboration).
There has been a particular clue that has been slapped into the audience's faces every single episode. I'm quite surprised that nobody has talked much about it, since it was the cause of most of the mental scars in the Kanon cast.
Cheers.
...since it was the cause of most of the mental scars in the Kanon cast.
Aha! I knew it! It was the JAM all along!
Akiko must have fed the jam to everyone 7 years ago.
That explains why she seems to know alot.
Those sneaky Kyo-Ani/Key scoundrels! Here I was speculating how they would balance mood (i.e. depressing vs. joyful), while also maintaining realistic, non-trite arc resolutions (i.e. miraculous recovery vs. death; sibling reconciliation vs. estrangement). So what do they do? They add a third option! Instead of a miraculous recovery or death they simply have Shiori disappear.
It's a very nice trick. It keeps Yuuichi from being too depressed for the following arcs, and allows for a semi-happy sibling reconciliation. It also keeps things from being too sappy/unrealistic (i.e. by avoiding a 'miracle'), thus allowing possible miracle recoveries to occur in the other girls' arcs without it seeming too overdone.
...of course, if news arrives that Shiori's dead in the next episode, then my comments are shot to heck. I wonder whether Kyo-Ani can write Shiori out of the story without killing her off outright.... Since Yuuichi has a connection to Shiori via Kaori, it seems like Kyo-Ani would somehow have to write them both out of the story to properly end the Shiori focus.
Perhaps Shiori herself will refuse contact with Yuuichi. Or maybe she'll simply stay well for a bit longer, and spend her time happily with Kaori (thus allowing Yuuichi to move on to other girls' arcs). Though judging from the preview, this possibility seems unlikely (since Yuuichi would look so depressed if this had occurred).
^ disagree. Having some one simply "disappear" is not a good way to resolve anything. It certainly does not help Yuuichi in any way, since, as far as he knows, Shiori is supposed to die. So, more likely than not, that is what he is going to assume if he has no one to state otherwise.
Basically what Shiori is doing to Yuuichi is somewhat similar to what Kaori had been doing to Shiori, only with reversed intentions. (Kaori wanted to avoid the pain herself, Shiori wants to spare Yuuichi from it).
And i certainly hope they do not write Shiori and Kaori out of the story just like that ... they already did it with Mai and Sayuri, doing the same thing again is stretching it imo.
FatPianoBoy
2007-02-04, 14:56
There has been a particular clue that has been slapped into the audience's faces every single episode. I'm quite surprised that nobody has talked much about it, since it was the cause of most of the mental scars in the Kanon cast.
I have been obsessing over this ever since you posted it. It's driving me absolutely crazy. I'm losing sleep. I can't focus at work. Even my imaginary girlfriend is threatening to leave me. It's destroying my life, Skane.
Is it the hospital? The cat? Nayuki's narcolepsy? Yuuichi's amnesia? Was I even the one that commented on it? What was it!? :frustrated:
I have been obsessing over this ever since you posted it. It's driving me absolutely crazy. I'm losing sleep. I can't focus at work. Even my imaginary girlfriend is threatening to leave me. It's destroying my life, Skane.
Is it the hospital? The cat? Nayuki's narcolepsy? Yuuichi's amnesia? Was I even the one that commented on it? What was it!? :frustrated:
Don't worry about it. I've watched the older series and have no clue what he's talking about either. (well...I take that back...I have some inkling, but I didn't see it as a slap in the face of the audience since I was looking for it)
Deathkillz
2007-02-04, 18:28
Now that we are heading into Nayuki's and Ayu's arc, I would like to comment that after searching through this thread for a particular keyword, it surprised me that only ONE post made mention of it( with no further elaboration).
There has been a particular clue that has been slapped into the audience's faces every single episode. I'm quite surprised that nobody has talked much about it, since it was the cause of most of the mental scars in the Kanon cast.
Cheers.
...oh the mystery O.o what could it possibly be? :rolleyes:
*shock* could it be that ayako's dad isnt here? O.o (bad guess i bet :heh:)
^ disagree. Having some one simply "disappear" is not a good way to resolve anything. It certainly does not help Yuuichi in any way, since, as far as he knows, Shiori is supposed to die. So, more likely than not, that is what he is going to assume if he has no one to state otherwise.
Basically what Shiori is doing to Yuuichi is somewhat similar to what Kaori had been doing to Shiori, only with reversed intentions. (Kaori wanted to avoid the pain herself, Shiori wants to spare Yuuichi from it).
And i certainly hope they do not write Shiori and Kaori out of the story just like that ... they already did it with Mai and Sayuri, doing the same thing again is stretching it imo.
I don't know that Mai/Sayuri are written out so much as just backburnered... I suspect they'll be involved or appear again later. Shiori and Kaori also seem ... incomplete ... so far so I'm going to speculate there's more to come.
^ well, that i agree with, and i certainly hope that they do appear later on. I think it is pretty much a given that Mai/Sayuri will get out of the hospital sooner or later, and we will see them again.
What i am worried about is that we might never hear from Shiori again... and this is what made rating ep18 so hard for me - if that is the resolution we are going to get regarding Shiori, then the ep does not deserve much more than 7 imo... if that is not the last we see of her, then it is a 10 imo :p ...i guess time will tell >.<
What i am worried about is that we might never hear from Shiori again...
I doubt it. If the writers aimed for finality, they probably wouldn't have left the Ep.18 ending as open as it is.
During the last moments of the episode, Yuuichi and Shiori spoke of miracles again. Consequently, I wouldn't be surprised if they intend to spring one of these at the end of the series (with Shiori written out in the meantime, and with Yuuichi possibly believing that he'll never see her again).
^ disagree. Having some one simply "disappear" is not a good way to resolve anything. It certainly does not help Yuuichi in any way, since, as far as he knows, Shiori is supposed to die. So, more likely than not, that is what he is going to assume if he has no one to state otherwise.
Basically what Shiori is doing to Yuuichi is somewhat similar to what Kaori had been doing to Shiori, only with reversed intentions. (Kaori wanted to avoid the pain herself, Shiori wants to spare Yuuichi from it).
And i certainly hope they do not write Shiori and Kaori out of the story just like that ... they already did it with Mai and Sayuri, doing the same thing again is stretching it imo.I agree that 'disappearing' isn't a good final resolution. But I think death would put more pressure on Yuuichi in a way that would make portraying him in the remaining episodes quite hard, and I think a miraculous recovery might make any miracles in future arcs harder to portray (i.e. because it has become overdone).
There is a similarity between Shiori and Kaori's actions...but then, they are sisters after all! Hohoho. But I don't really condemn the conduct of either, although Kaori was slightly more impolite because she always met Shiori (while Shiori can act in such a way that she never meets Yuuichi). Although, it might not be a total parallel in reverse--Shiori may simply have wished to end their contact on a happy note (rather than maintaining contact through to a sad demise). Which can work fine if both parties agree (it seems that in the original writing Shiori made a promise with Yuuichi on this regard...?).
I don't know that backburning characters is 'stretching it', although they have pulled the same thing with Makoto and Mai/Sayuri.... I think that all possible resolutions for Shiori's arc have their difficulties, but death and miraculous recovery seem less manageable than having Shiori temporarily 'disappear'. The other two possibilities seem to constrain the effective useability of death and miracles in Nayuki and Ayu's arc, but having Shiori temporarily 'disappear' and having the final resolution story after Nayuki/Ayu's arc gets around that while still being a workable way of transitioning to focus on Nayuki/Ayu.
I don't know that Mai/Sayuri are written out so much as just backburnered... I suspect they'll be involved or appear again later. Shiori and Kaori also seem ... incomplete ... so far so I'm going to speculate there's more to come.I agree on all of these points! I fully expect more on Shiori and Kaori's story, although I no longer expect the conclusion next episode. Still, Kyo-Ani might surprise me on that point.
Am also in agreement with G005.
FatPianoBoy
2007-02-08, 15:47
I wonder if maybe Ayu was hit by a car and slipped into a coma. That would explain Akiko's "Watch out for cars" line that's been getting some attention lately and explain how the doctor at the hospital knew her. This also may be what Skane was referring to, as I don't think I've seen much mentioned on this.
As for whether Ayu's still in that coma, I'm not sure.
If she were still in the coma, it would solve the mystery of why Ayu seems to live on the streets getting five-finger-discounts on taiyaki until the Minases take her in, and why she always wears the same clothes.
However, if Yuuichi pooled his assets and had Mai pay the comatose Ayu a visit, it would explain how Mai knows about Ayu, how Yuuichi realized that Mai had those powers, and also lend credibility to Mai's abandonment issues (use me and leave me, anyone?).
I wonder if maybe Ayu was hit by a car and slipped into a coma. That would explain Akiko's "Watch out for cars" line that's been getting some attention lately and explain how the doctor at the hospital knew her. This also may be what Skane was referring to, as I don't think I've seen much mentioned on this.Skane said that 'There has been a particular clue that has been slapped into the audience's faces every single episode' and 'it was the cause of most of the mental scars in the Kanon cast'...but I'm not so sure that the answer is 'cars'. Though there have been cars every episode!
Since watching the latest episode (#19) it feels like I've been slapped in the face with the hint that Ayu--or Yuuichi, but probably Ayu--fell from three and busted herself into a coma. They've been hinting at an injury since the first episode (and tied this to forested areas), so the minute I saw the tree and then Ayu climbing it it seemed it was being screamed that she busted her head from a fall.
On the other hand...I like the car idea. Perhaps Yuuichi, who is not good at heights, tried to join Ayu near the top of the tree and busted his head from a fall? That would explain his poor memory, perhaps. Moreover, perhaps Ayu suffered an accident shortly afterwards (e.g. hit by a car because she was flustered over Yuuichi's injuries?; fell off the tree and busted her head a bit trying to keep Yuuichi from falling, and then hit by a car?).
Mayhaps he gave her the headband on the same day he received the injury, hence why the flashbacks showed her wearing a white headband (she hadn't switched headbands yet), and hence why he doesn't remember giving it to her. And/Or perhaps he was traumatized by Ayu being struck by a coma, hence he blocked the memories from his mind.
I'll need to sort through these possibilities and weigh their probability later. Right now I've just finished episode 19 (and looked over the last part, which blew my mind, a few times) so I'm spewing out the ideas as they come.
I really need to go back and look at the first episode so I can check the perspective and confirm this next thought: from the fact that the tree from seven years ago was shown when Yuuichi was flashbacking after Ayu asked whether Yuuichi had 'lost someone before his eyes', it is heavily implied that it was Ayu and not Yuuichi who was badly injured there? That would lend credence to the 'trauma = memory loss' possibility for Yuuichi.
However, if Yuuichi pooled his assets and had Mai pay the comatose Ayu a visit, it would explain how Mai knows about Ayu, how Yuuichi realized that Mai had those powers, and also lend credibility to Mai's abandonment issues (use me and leave me, anyone?).Did Yuuichi know that Mai had super-healing powers back then? I don't recall, but I wouldn't be surprised if Yuuichi requested Mai's said if he did know. But this would leave us without an explanation as to why Ayu seems rather screwed up in the head (surely this isn't how she is normally). I can't say I especially favor this possibility at the moment....
Perhaps Yuuichi was highly traumatized by Ayu's injury, hence his parents thought it would be better if he didn't go to that city for a while (lest it be revisiting the trauma?). That would explain why he didn't continue visting Mai.
This was all stream of consciousness rambling. Please forgive me if my thoughts aren't readable or coherent.
Crackpot ranting and messed up, unfollowable (is that a word) train of thoughts incoming.
After ep19 i am more than certain that Ayu had an accident involving that tree. Most likely she fell down from it, and suffered a heavy injury. The lines she says in ep19
"Have you ever lost an important person right in front of you? I have. I couldn't do anything. I was forced to face the fact that I was a powerless child. All I could do was to call my important person's... my mother's name until my voice died. I don't want to experience that again. Have you had that experience ?"
Would suggest that it was, perhaps, Yuuichi that fell down the tree, but the flashback in ep1 says otherwise. In that flashback we see a young Yuuichi(Who else :p) leaning over something and crying.
Most likely Ayu fell down the tree and was heavily injured(according to my theories put in coma...sort of...but still could see - hence we have the flashback in ep1 that would be from Ayu's eyes in that case. The above Ayu quote would also be a reference to the flashback, where she said that she wanted to wipe away the boys tears, but since her hands wouldn't move, all she could do was watch.
Most likely she was carried away later, and never saw Yuuichi again, which would refer to loosing the important person. Or it could refer to Yuuichi's memory loss - he had forgotten about her, thus she "lost" him. Possibly the combination of both.
...Or the quote could indeed refer to her mother(unlikely imo).
The doll and the three wishes... i get a feeling this would be behind much of the mysteries in Kanon, tho don't ask me how :eyespin: ... tho i am willing to bet the doll is the item that Ayu is searching for. And i am willing to be that she lost it near that tree, not in the city where she is searching all the time.
If you ask me, i think the Ayu we see now is some sort of illusion ... perhaps a manifestation of her wish to meet Yuuichi again. I think that the real Ayu is lying in some hospital in coma. For some reason the window we see in ep2 flashback reminds me of a hospital window... and the nurses reaction to Ayu. maybe she will awaken when Yuuichi finds that doll? (Or Ayu herself in the hospital).
Either way i bet the three wishes are very important... the question is - how many are used? Would it be one (Yuuichi meeting Ayu again) or two (Yuuichi meeting Ayu again, under the assumption that the Ayu we see is some sort of a ghost/manifested spirit - her second wish that allowed her meet Yuuichi, despite her being in coma).
That would leave us with one(or two) wishes... i doubt they will be left hanging - i am willing to bet there is going to be a need to "use" the doll again (Perhaps to awaken the Ayu?) (Remember - all this post is made under my crackpot assumption that the Ayu we see is some sort of spirit/ghost/astral projection/whatever floats your boat).
...But that seems all to cheesy and too little angst ... assuming there is one wish left, how about we make Ayu choose between something? :eyespin: Say... Akiko's illness has been bugging me for a good while (And Ayu developing a bond(sort of) with her)... KyoAni does not seem to be throwing things in for the heck of it, so.... why not have Akiko's illness become life-threatening, causing Ayu to choose between Akiko and herself ? :eyespin: :heh: ( Hey - we need a dramatic finale, and since i doubt we will be getting it from the romance part (Nayuki stepped down(much to my disappointment), and Shiori is, conveniently, gone missing for an unknowable period of time), so we might as well get our drama fix from somewhere else :heh: :uhoh:
... Which reminds me - in ep19 Nayuki says she was rejected by the person she likes ...does that mean she confessed to Yuuichi in the past, but was shot down? (Could explain why she does not seem to be doing anything in order to win Yuuichis affections and bows down to Ayu so easily - perhaps the rejection is burned in to her mind, and she thinks she can't do anything about it, and is trying to save every one from a dose of angst by keeping her feelings to herself).
I have no idea how the events are going to unfold, but i expect to see a lot of unscientific stuff :p
....So.... how high on the insanity meter do i rank now ? :bash:
Deathkillz
2007-02-10, 08:32
well i expect to see the angel doll pop up again ~ considering that ayu cant find it does suggest something ~ why would she loose such an important gift? brings me to believe that saying that ayu is in a coma in hospital is a valid reason ~ she could still be holding onto the doll while her "spirit" materializes into the form we see today ~ maybe the miracle is similar to makoto (lol anything can happen in the kanon world :p)
but ayu still has that headband...could it be that what ever happened to her happened before recieving it the last time that yuuichi visited? O.o
(brings me to say another thing ~ the way i refused to believe that it was yuuichi who gave her the headband just blew up in my face >.<)
wishes that yuuichi is capable of huh? well i can guess snapping ayu out of the coma to be one of them ~ he should give her a deep passionate kiss ^__^
Chaos2Frozen
2007-02-10, 08:41
^
But if he does that, wouldn't it be like SHnY all over again? =) you know, snow white and sleeping beauty?
FatPianoBoy
2007-02-10, 10:45
Most likely Ayu fell down the tree and was heavily injured(according to my theories put in coma...sort of...but still could see - hence we have the flashback in ep1 that would be from Ayu's eyes in that case. The above Ayu quote would also be a reference to the flashback, where she said that she wanted to wipe away the boys tears, but since her hands wouldn't move, all she could do was watch.
Most likely she was carried away later, and never saw Yuuichi again, which would refer to loosing the important person. Or it could refer to Yuuichi's memory loss - he had forgotten about her, thus she "lost" him. Possibly the combination of both.
...Or the quote could indeed refer to her mother(unlikely imo).
The doll and the three wishes... i get a feeling this would be behind much of the mysteries in Kanon, tho don't ask me how :eyespin: ... tho i am willing to bet the doll is the item that Ayu is searching for. And i am willing to be that she lost it near that tree, not in the city where she is searching all the time.
I'm slowly getting on board with the 'fall from tree' idea, and all this other stuff you're tying to it is putting me in danger of going over the edge.
If you ask me, i think the Ayu we see now is some sort of illusion ... perhaps a manifestation of her wish to meet Yuuichi again. I think that the real Ayu is lying in some hospital in coma. For some reason the window we see in ep2 flashback reminds me of a hospital window... and the nurses reaction to Ayu. maybe she will awaken when Yuuichi finds that doll? (Or Ayu herself in the hospital).
Well, the nurse did hear Ayu's name, so I'm not sure how that would work. She'd read Ayu's name almost every day as she looked at her chart. She'd have stopped where she stood and made all kinds of faces if Ayu was in that hospital under her care.
Either way i bet the three wishes are very important... the question is - how many are used? Would it be one (Yuuichi meeting Ayu again) or two (Yuuichi meeting Ayu again, under the assumption that the Ayu we see is some sort of a ghost/manifested spirit - her second wish that allowed her meet Yuuichi, despite her being in coma).
That would leave us with one(or two) wishes... i doubt they will be left hanging - i am willing to bet there is going to be a need to "use" the doll again (Perhaps to awaken the Ayu?) (Remember - all this post is made under my crackpot assumption that the Ayu we see is some sort of spirit/ghost/astral projection/whatever floats your boat).
...But that seems all to cheesy and too little angst ... assuming there is one wish left, how about we make Ayu choose between something? :eyespin: Say... Akiko's illness has been bugging me for a good while (And Ayu developing a bond(sort of) with her)... KyoAni does not seem to be throwing things in for the heck of it, so.... why not have Akiko's illness become life-threatening, causing Ayu to choose between Akiko and herself ? :eyespin: :heh: ( Hey - we need a dramatic finale, and since i doubt we will be getting it from the romance part (Nayuki stepped down(much to my disappointment), and Shiori is, conveniently, gone missing for an unknowable period of time), so we might as well get our drama fix from somewhere else :heh: :uhoh:
... :twitch:
Wow, Ayu must choose between saving herself and Akiko? Genius. I'm putting down $10 on this.
... Which reminds me - in ep19 Nayuki says she was rejected by the person she likes ...does that mean she confessed to Yuuichi in the past, but was shot down? (Could explain why she does not seem to be doing anything in order to win Yuuichis affections and bows down to Ayu so easily - perhaps the rejection is burned in to her mind, and she thinks she can't do anything about it, and is trying to save every one from a dose of angst by keeping her feelings to herself).
Of course that's what that means :p
It's possible that she just rolled over for Ayu. It very well may be as you say.
Klashikari
2007-02-10, 11:39
... Which reminds me - in ep19 Nayuki says she was rejected by the person she likes ...does that mean she confessed to Yuuichi in the past, but was shot down? (Could explain why she does not seem to be doing anything in order to win Yuuichis affections and bows down to Ayu so easily - perhaps the rejection is burned in to her mind, and she thinks she can't do anything about it, and is trying to save every one from a dose of angst by keeping her feelings to herself).
this part of your thinking popped something in my mind.
as skane hinted throughout the serie, Nayuki seems to pay a huge attention to yuuichi memories and his feelings towards the city.
if we consider that Ayu's accident was the trigger for a special breakdown to yuuichi (and in some extent, the origin of his amnesia), i guess it wouldn't be ridiculous to say that Nayuki tried to express her feelings to yuuichi before he left, but unfortunately for her, yuuichi was under a severe grief (read : the loss of an important person to him, hinted with a very faint flashback in EP19 of chibi ayu on the tree, with the 3 other girls sequences)
that said, because of the shock, yuuichi doesn't remember about that event with nayuki, and since he is a plain bonehead, without any clue except his solid consideration to her as a "mere relative", he is simply normal to her (kinda?)
thus, Nayuki possibly felt that yuuichi didn't have anything precious to him in this city, except ayu, which it would explain why nayuki tries a lot to keep yuuuichi here with good memories.
like you said, nayuki isn't really "attacking" yuuichi's heart (:heh:) but i guess she has put a limit between them, so both of them wouldn't be hurt somehow, and she would be able to win slowly but surely his feelings.
there is, however, another question in my mind : when did nayuki realize that the girl yuuichi loved a while back was ayu? she didn't really act weird when she first meet her. but suddenly in EP19, she knows something pretty solid about her, i assume.
Richard 23
2007-02-11, 22:35
Hmm. Maybe Ayu fell out of the tree when a car hit it. Or she fell out of the tree, said, "Uguu~ I'm fine," and then was hit by a car, followed by an airplane or a space shuttle or something. That would have to hurt.
Or maybe Yuuichi got pissed off when she kept climbing the tree (which scared the heck out of him) so he cut it down in a fit of rage. Or as revenge for her cookies of doom. This had the unexpected effect of Ayu both falling and being squashed by the tree. "Uguu~ ooo."
Yuuichi doesn't remember the headband because it was originally white, but turned crimson red from all the blood.
Maybe a snowman fell on her. Recall in episode 19 that you see Ayu waving frantically at a snowman. That wouldn't be in there for no reason.
Maybe the nurse is an astral projection of Ayu's mother who lost her memory (and her life) in order to come back. She didn't like how Yuuichi kept teasing her daughter. Not one bit. She has a flash of recognition, but since her memory's been wiped she dismissed it.
And I think you're all on the wrong track with Nayuki. She said the boy she liked in grade school already has someone he likes. Hmmm, who has a girl that he likes but doesn't pay attention to Nayuki and can't help but to help others with their problems? Hmmm. Think, think, think.... Kitagawa Jun, perhaps? I dunno, just saying. Who does Yuuichi have a romantic interest in? Nobody! Besides, he's already married. Actually I think he likes Jun too.
Hmmm. Just brainstorming here, so don't give me negative rep points, FPB.
FatPianoBoy
2007-02-12, 00:03
Hmmm. Just brainstorming here, so don't give me negative rep points, FPB.
Next person to say that is getting negged :p
Seriously, though - I only do that for unmarked and/or untagged spoilers.
(...)
Yuuichi doesn't remember the headband because it was originally white, but turned crimson red from all the blood.
(...)
Out of all that random~ness. That is the only logical statement that can make sense. :heh:
Deathkillz
2007-02-12, 04:18
^ oh it makes sense...but a scary thought O.o also a reason why shes not wearing her ribbon now? :p
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-02-12, 15:29
after witnessing episode 19....
(warning: wall of text in spoiler tag!!)
i wonder if we'll get a "so called Nayuki" ending that people have been talking about in this forum...
seems like Kyoto animations is going to do Ayu's story....and i'm wondering if the ending of episode 19 was a bit...sudden.....i mean after all of the girls that Yuuichi has ever met throughout the series....he kisses Ayu!!??
i guess cuz they had some kind of past relationship as throughout episode 19, tried to highlight and give an idea as to what might have happened to Ayu that made her lose her memory...and maybe even Yuuichi as well.....
and i've been thinking that throughout the whole 19 episodes that Kanon has right now, people have been pointing out that Kyoto animations has been giving hints on what happened to Ayu in the past....and i'm guessing that she must have fell down the tree that she climbed as shown in episode 19.....
throughout the whole season in this remake of Kanon, we've been seeing alot of falling down on to hard ground, falling off of tree's (shiori's first encounter with Ayu and Yuuichi) and even suicide attempts (Shiori and Sayuri due to certain conditions that happened in their life....Shiori with her illness and Sayuri with losing her younger brother)
WAIT A MINUTE, i think something clicked in my head....we've been seeing alot of the main story arcs in this story to have lost or almost lost someone....lets see....Mai almost lost her mother....and she tried suicide to get rid of the demons....
Sayuri slit her wrist once because of treating her brother with strict rules and not having much fun with him as being an older sister....
Shiori slit her wrist because of the fact that her sister is avoiding her because she won't live long enough to see her 16th birthday....well somewhat in that reason and to make it more emotional for Shiori....Kaori said it to her personally while in school...
Akiko fell ill also, but atleast nothing came out of it, except for Ayu mentioning the same even that happened to her in the past...
Makoto past away but Yuuichi never really became that depressed to a point where he would try to do suicide himself...i guess cuz he knew that Makoto wasn't a really a human and thus he accepted that fact without giving thought of suicide....
what point am i trying to make out of these speculations?
A THEORY!
maybe the reason Ayu lost her memory wasn't because of an accident that she fell off the tree....maybe because she tried to do suicide herself...by climbing up the same tree that she did in episode 19...and tried falling to her death....maybe because of the lose of her mother...
but this makes a hole in my theory...i dont know if, during that time, Ayu's mom didn't pass away yet....but this makes it highly possible!
as for Yuuichi losing his memory, i dont know how to come up with a theory for that yet....
dont know if this makes sense, but this is what i think as a first time viewer of Kanon!
enjoy:)
CrowKenobi
2007-02-13, 00:00
after witnessing episode 19....
dont know if this makes sense, but this is what i think as a first time viewer of Kanon!
enjoy:)Try watching the beginning of episode 6 again to see if your theory holds. ;)
:cool:
aliensporebomb
2007-02-13, 16:16
What I'm finding fascinating is that many of the first time viewers are coming up
with interesting and plausible permutations of the story that would probably be
as interesting as the actual ending.
I'm going to be interested in seeing first time viewer reaction to the way the
story ends, not to mention that being that some of the twists in this story
have defied my expectations - I expect longtime folks are going to be equally
surprised by what transpires.
What I'm finding fascinating is that many of the first time viewers are coming up
with interesting and plausible permutations of the story that would probably be
as interesting as the actual ending.
I'm going to be interested in seeing first time viewer reaction to the way the
story ends, not to mention that being that some of the twists in this story
have defied my expectations - I expect longtime folks are going to be equally
surprised by what transpires.
You must enjoy laughing at us. lol
Deathkillz
2007-02-14, 05:03
what point am i trying to make out of these speculations?
A THEORY!
maybe the reason Ayu lost her memory wasn't because of an accident that she fell off the tree....maybe because she tried to do suicide herself...by climbing up the same tree that she did in episode 19...and tried falling to her death....maybe because of the lose of her mother...
but this makes a hole in my theory...i dont know if, during that time, Ayu's mom didn't pass away yet....but this makes it highly possible!
as for Yuuichi losing his memory, i dont know how to come up with a theory for that yet....
but why? after meeting yuuichi ayu has already stopped going into depression so their leaves no reason for her to try and kill herself ~ id say an accident is more deadly ~ yuuichi met ayu on a bench and that was after her mothers death >.<
Dani Maxwell
2007-02-16, 15:09
Spoilers for eps. 20, maybe.
After watching again the dream scenes at the beginning of some episodes, I think that Ayu has been long dead...
In the eps. 1-6 it shows almost clearly she had an accident, and I think she died because of the next messages... saying that the dream "stopped ending" or something sorta it.
Her spirit must have become attached to the tree, and her accident must've been know to some people - like Akiko, hearing from Yuuichi, and the nurse, taking her to the hospital...
The dream scenes in the eps. 1-6 indicates so, and the following ones seems to be her memories and such "I've been waiting for hours... then days... and now years..."
Her memories of her school she get everytime she goes back to the tree are her former ones, probably... or it's just her imagination...
In eps. 20, that tree was cut down and that's probably she disappeared...
...now, this can't end like this, it would be really mean -_-
It could be this, everything points to this anyway... but it also could be something they pulled to make the viewer's believe in it and showing something else (that would be great!)
Still, being a Drama Anime (my first time seeing one, btw) I don't know what would be best, a turnaround event to something happy or sad, an unhappy "ending", or just a happy one afterall...
I'm really, really enjoying Kanon right now... and to think some time ago I would simply dump some animes just because I saw "Drama" labelled on them.
That, plus KyoAni seems to work really great.
Ah, a question that doesn't really belong here but it's related somehow... is "Air" any good at all? I remember watching 1 or 2 eps, falling asleep, and then deleting it... but it's a Key/KyoAni work... should I try watching it again?
Deathkillz
2007-02-16, 16:22
In eps. 20, that tree was cut down and that's probably she disappeared...
no actually i think that part was in the past tense as in the tree was cut down during yuuichi's absence ~
yea the theory that ayu fell off the tree is getting more and more realistic >.< perhaps the tree was cut down because of the accident ~
and now it hits me ~ every ep we see that tree stump in the OP sequence ~ so that might have been the clue skane was hinting ^__^
well her memories of going to school is all a fake...and i think by taking yuuichi to the tree stump she somehow manages to pass the barrier of illusions which has been keeping her at a stand still ~ this could have triggered the truth to her and now she is searching for the doll for the last wish (probably telling yuuichi to never leave her side again) ~ im bracing myself already for a tearful end >.<
Lets modify my crackshot theory about Akiko a bit :p
Previously i thought that her illness might get fatal, but now i think she is going to suffer a car accident. We had the "watch out for cars" again, and we know that she walks to her work and has to cross a busy road at that... given that KyoAni don't throw things in for the heck of it, i smell trouble.
Either that, or Nayuki is going to have to deliver something to Akiko to her work and get in to an accident. (Dear god, no. The poor girl is having it hard as it is T.T)
Also i personally think that my previous theory about Ayu having to choose between herself and Akiko via her last wish got a boost in my books, seeing that she, aparantly, spent her second wish and has only one left :p :heh: .... i don't know why, but i certainly believe that there is going to be a lot of angst over that last wish.
Ayu turning out to be some sort of a spirit/ghost was not unexpected. And i still think that she is lying in a coma from falling down the tree... and she will have to spend that last wish choosing between herself waking up OR saving Akiko :eyespin:
Crackshot theories ftw
Also my hopes for a Nayuki ending have gone down the drain after ep20 (Ya right, as if i didn't know that is not going to happen before that :heh:) ... seems pretty impossible to have her "win" at this point ... unless she indeed gets hit by a car and is in a life/death situation, and Yuuichi goes trough some "most important person to me" crisis :eyespin:
Deathkillz
2007-02-16, 19:00
^ well thats all good but the wishes are only something that yuuichi can do ~ and reviving someone whos been through a car accident isnt one of them :heh: but with that said nothing is impossible in the kanon world as long as you have hope...and mai around the corner to heal any cuts and grazies :heh:
^ Well, we have(had) some kind of a ghost Ayu running around for a good while(at least i think it was not a normal human-Ayu), so in that case - who knows. Besides - anything goes in Kanon :heh:
Chaos2Frozen
2007-02-16, 19:30
...nothing is impossible in the kanon world as long as you have hope...and mai around the corner to heal any cuts and grazies :heh:
You do realize you just made a pun right :) ...
yea the theory that ayu fell off the tree is getting more and more realistic >.< perhaps the tree was cut down because of the accidentYeah, I think we now have pretty solid theory confirmation regarding the Ayu-Tree accident. It's very gratifying. :D The tree being cut down because of the accident also seems somewhat plausible, although I'm placing no wagers.
well her memories of going to school is all a fake...and i think by taking yuuichi to the tree stump she somehow manages to pass the barrier of illusions which has been keeping her at a stand still ~ this could have triggered the truth to her and now she is searching for the doll for the last wish (probably telling yuuichi to never leave her side again) ~ im bracing myself already for a tearful end >.<I'm a bit worried about the 'searching for the doll' hypothesis. Such a thing would be so tiny and fragile, after seven years I'd expect it to be in a far away landfill or trampled into unrecognizability. I still wonder whether the 'missing item' she's actually searching for is her real body. If she's not dead, I'd imagine the doll would be with her body (if it's anywhere at all). (Or maybe that doctor has the doll?)
Previously i thought that her illness might get fatal, but now i think she is going to suffer a car accident. We had the "watch out for cars" again, and we know that she walks to her work and has to cross a busy road at that... given that KyoAni don't throw things in for the heck of it, i smell trouble.
Either that, or Nayuki is going to have to deliver something to Akiko to her work and get in to an accident. (Dear god, no. The poor girl is having it hard as it is T.T)If the accident struck anyone, I think it would be Akiko. The Ayu-Route Tragedy seems to be a tree-accident, so I now also suspect the Nayuki Route Tragedy will be the vehicle accident. However, the Tragedy has to be something which doesn't severely incapacitate Nayuki (e.g. no coma; no extended hospitalization), because then her character can't be developed. Also, anything minor (i.e. less than incapacitating) might not make for a very strong plot-point. Hence, I think the Tragedy has to occur to Akiko.
There's one exception to this reasoning. Kyo-Ani/Key might play the angle where Nayuki gets hit by a car and injures her legs, hence dealing a blow to one of her major activities (i.e. running). This could serve as a catalyst for character development, but I don't think this is a probable angle. Kanon Tragedies are heavy duty things, not leg-breakers. Something more heavy duty (e.g. spinal injury) would limit Nayuki's mobility too much, making her storyline potentially stale--from a game developer's point of view, I probably wouldn't take this angle.
Therefore: I'm wagering on an Akiko vehicle accident being the Nayuki Route Tragedy.
Also i personally think that my previous theory about Ayu having to choose between herself and Akiko via her last wish got a boost in my books, seeing that she, aparantly, spent her second wish and has only one left :p :heh: .... i don't know why, but i certainly believe that there is going to be a lot of angst over that last wish.
Ayu turning out to be some sort of a spirit/ghost was not unexpected. And i still think that she is lying in a coma from falling down the tree... and she will have to spend that last wish choosing between herself waking up OR saving AkikoHrrrm. I think that giving the angel doll's wishes actual power might be a bit too much. Also, I think the game routes were separate, so it wouldn't make sense for the angel doll of Ayu's route to have the power to heal Akiko in Nayuki's route. Moreover, I can't see Kyo-Ani interweaving the routes in a way that would (afaik) depart from the game so much. I think we have pretty solid agreement/consensus on the coma theory though.
Also my hopes for a Nayuki ending have gone down the drain after ep20 (Ya right, as if i didn't know that is not going to happen before that :heh:) ... seems pretty impossible to have her "win" at this point ... unless she indeed gets hit by a car and is in a life/death situation, and Yuuichi goes trough some "most important person to me" crisis :eyespin:I feel your pain. My Nayuki-ending hopes are dashed. ;_; I'd wager on an Ayu ending, though I'd be delighted if I lost that bet.
Although, if Ayu dies then I can see the other girls getting a chance. But after Yuuichi confessed to Ayu, I think his character has become too heavily committed for him to plausibly hook up with another girl during the series. The only way I can see a solid Yuuichi X [Non-Ayu Girl] ending is if they pull a 'years-later' epilogue. Otherwise, it's definitely not happening.
Ascaloth
2007-02-16, 22:42
Eh, heh, heh. As of this point onwards, watching the speculations of the first-timers is only going to get more and more interesting.
Eh heh heh. :heh:
justinstrife
2007-02-16, 23:29
Eh, heh, heh. As of this point onwards, watching the speculations of the first-timers is only going to get more and more interesting.
Eh heh heh. :heh:
Agreed. I've not posted in this thread until now as I have enjoyed immensely all the theories that have grown from everyone in here. It's been rather fascinating really, and I encourage the posters to go back and re-read the earlier posts and see how much evolution their ideas have gone through. Very fascinating, and quite cool in my opinion. :cool:
Ascaloth
2007-02-16, 23:39
Agreed. I've not posted in this thread until now as I have enjoyed immensely all the theories that have grown from everyone in here. It's been rather fascinating really, and I encourage the posters to go back and re-read the earlier posts and see how much evolution their ideas have gone through. Very fascinating, and quite cool in my opinion. :cool:
In fact, some of those speculations were so original, that IMO, whoever came up with those should consider a career move into the authorship of similar stories, using their own ideas. I would really love to see original works springing from these ideas.....as long as it's an original premise on their own part, and not just a "Toei-class remake" fusing an entirely different storyline altogether into a previous existing work. :p
That's why, to be honest, I really dislike Toei at this point; no matter how good the new storywriting, if it is portrayed through a previous title with its own premise, I can only see it as a ripoff. Toei Kanon was such an example, and it wasn't even particularly outstanding. Toei AIR was better, and I could see it being a good story if it used its own original premises......but since it was a hackjob onto an existing premise, it ended up only a hackjob in my eyes, to the point where I could only stand half an hour of it before I cut-and-ran on it. :heh: Therefore, even though I'm very interested in knowing CLANNAD's storyline, I'm not going to go near the upcoming TOEI CLANNAD with a ten-foot pole, because I know I'm not going to get the original storyline with it.
And.....I think I'm increasingly getting out of point here. Sorry, guys. Back to the main discussion. :heh:
Idea: Ayu is actually dead, and the doctor seemingly recognizing Ayu at the hospital really was 'nothing' (hey, maybe the doctor was just reminded of a niece of her's or something). No comatose Ayu. Instead, Ayu's actually dead and was searching for: (1) her grave, (2) her angel doll, or (3) something metaphorical (see below). However, now that she's recognized that she isn't 'real', the pull of death is strong and her spirit-form will soon dissipate. Also, perhaps if she doesn't find what she is searching for then her spirit won't be able to rest properly and enter the afterlife (i.e. her spirit simply vanishes, or goes to a realm of tormented souls).
Addendum to Idea: Ayu's school is in 'heaven'. Think about what she's said about it. She can go to school and leave whenever she likes, she is served taiyaki there, and she has friends there.... If Ayu died when she had the tree accident, then she thinks the school is over by the tree because that's where her 'portal to heaven' is. Of course, the 'heaven school' theory implies that Ayu can go back and forth from the afterlife. In this case, Ayu's missing item probably isn't her body/grave, but might be her angel doll.
Missing Item - Metaphorical?: maybe we've been on the wrong track, and what Ayu is missing is something more metaphorical like 'love' or 'contentedness'. She's not staying in the 'heaven' afterlife because she's not satisfied with how things ended in her earthly life.
Yuuichi suffering from trauma-based amnesia makes even more sense if Ayu actually died seven years ago.
I don't completely believe this, but wouldn't that be a kicker? 'False clues' like the doctor's recognition could result in really off-the-mark speculations. If we speculate that the doctor's recognition was really a 'false clue', then the Dead-Ayu theory suddenly becomes quite plausible. Moreover, it was noted earlier that there are some problems with the 'doctor recognizes Ayu because she's comatose in the hospital' scenario. The 'false clue' possibility fits with these objections.
So what do you guys think? Were Ayu's fear of hospitals and the doctor's recognition of her 'false clues'?
-----------
Come to think of it, I didn't speculate on why Ayu thought she didn't have much time left (i.e. she wouldn't be able to meet up with Yuuichi again). Here are some possibilities:
1. The hospital's going to pull the plug on comatose Ayu, hence spirit-Ayu 'sensed' that she will soon vanish too.
2. Spirit-Ayu won't be able to manifest because she's recognized that she's not real. Think of it as a 'law of the supernatural' (e.g. you don't fall until you recognize there's no ground beneath your feet). (Compatible with both 'dead-Ayu' and 'comatose-Ayu' hypotheses.)
3. Spirit-Ayu's ability to manifest is getting weaker. She needs to get back to her body soon (i.e. find her missing item?), and if she doesn't her spirit will dissipate and her body will die. (No guarantee that she'll wake up even if the spirit returns to the body).
What would be interesting of Spirit-Ayu starts thinking she's dead but doesn't realize that she's only comatose.
That's all I can think of for now.
Richard 23
2007-02-17, 02:31
Ah, a question that doesn't really belong here but it's related somehow... is "Air" any good at all? I remember watching 1 or 2 eps, falling asleep, and then deleting it... but it's a Key/KyoAni work... should I try watching it again?
Not out of place at all. I discovered Air by accident on one of those WinAmp anime channels. Since then, I've watched it every couple of months and it never gets old.
I suggest you brew some coffee or carmel ice mochas before you try again if it's too slow for you at the beginning. If you like Kanon, you should enjoy Air, or else!
I'd skip the movie for now. It was kinda meh, and a major straying from Air's story in my opinion. Be sure to check it out again and also get the 2 episode Air in Summer special if you like what you see.
You can pretty much skip episode 13. It's a recrap. I HATE recaps.
FatPianoBoy
2007-02-17, 15:35
Everyone's pretty much hit all my theories so far, but I'll just pull them all together anyway:
Second wish: Ayu wished to go to school with Yuuichi.
Where is she now?: Six feet under. We're looking at her ghost. I don't like the idea of the Ayu we see being the astral manifestation of her while she's in a coma because that's been used in another Key work.
How did she die?: Fell out of the tree. The tree was cut down after a ten-year-old girl plunged to her death from it.
What is she looking for?: The doll. Why would she care where her body was? She doesn't even seem to realize she's dead.
Cars: No comment. I got spoiled.
It also seems to me that Nayuki does remember everything and is being extremely cruel and manipulative right now. I seriously doubt she would have dressed up Ayu like that to give her competition moe points. Does she somehow know about the school and want Ayu to take Yuuichi there, knowing what kind of havoc it'll cause?
Edit: I just noticed something: Yuuichi is wearing Ayu's coat in that scene at the tree just before Ayu makes her second wish. Maybe her second wish is actually "catch me" :p
After first scene of ep 6 I have been hoping that OPs Ayu with Angel wings won't be/came true.
Cars: No comment. I got spoiled.
Me too.
Sucks when you get spoiled while you're not seeking the spoilers. ;__;
Deathkillz
2007-02-17, 17:43
What is she looking for?: The doll. Why would she care where her body was? She doesn't even seem to realize she's dead.
Cars: No comment. I got spoiled.
maybe if she can find her doll she can also find either her 1) hospital ridden body or 2) coffin ~
i would think that its logical for ayu to have the doll in her pocket even after death or be that shes still holding it while in a coma or something :p
and the cars bit ~ its only speculation!! i find the tree theory more convincing anyway :p
FatPianoBoy
2007-02-17, 19:33
maybe if she can find her doll she can also find either her 1) hospital ridden body or 2) coffin ~
i would think that its logical for ayu to have the doll in her pocket even after death or be that shes still holding it while in a coma or something :p
and the cars bit ~ its only speculation!! i find the tree theory more convincing anyway :p
I like that idea. It would make sense, since she seems to have no leads on its location and is just looking in random places.
Cars: I know all about the cars. I know it's speculation ;)
What is she looking for?: The doll. Why would she care where her body was? She doesn't even seem to realize she's dead.At the same time, why would the doll be more important to her than Yuuichi? When she realizes that she's not real and that she might not have much time left (episode 20) she immediately feels that it's important to find her item...but wouldn't the natural response be to spend as much time with her loved one (i.e. Yuuichi) as possible?
If Real-Ayu=Comatose then: spirit-Ayu needs to find her body; if body and spirit are not united, then she certainly dies. If Body is found then: life, and maybe or maybe not recovery from coma.
If Real-Ayu=Dead then: no need to find the body/grave. Since I theorize that she's already made it to a 'heaven' afterlife in my previous post, she doesn't need to meet up with her body/grave to achieve a restful death. Instead, she needs to cut off what ties her to the earthly world (i.e. make a last wish on the angel doll?; achieve some state of contentedness that is metaphorized as a 'missing item'?).
FatPianoBoy
2007-02-17, 21:36
At the same time, why would the doll be more important to her than Yuuichi? When she realizes that she's not real and that she might not have much time left (episode 20) she immediately feels that it's important to find her item...but wouldn't the natural response be to spend as much time with her loved one (i.e. Yuuichi) as possible?
At some point she says exactly that: whatever she's looking for doesn't matter, since she must not need it in order to be happy. It's only after she sees the tree stump and her empty backpack that she starts freaking out. Maybe she had a sudden urge to prove her existence after realizing that her school, friends, classes, and everything she thought she'd been doing every day for the last few years was all imaginary. Of course, she can't prove her existence, and realizing this, she vanishes.
If Real-Ayu=Dead then: no need to find the body/grave. Since I theorize that she's already made it to a 'heaven' afterlife in my previous post, she doesn't need to meet up with her body/grave to achieve a restful death. Instead, she needs to cut off what ties her to the earthly world (i.e. make a last wish on the angel doll?; achieve some state of contentedness that is metaphorized as a 'missing item'?).
I also suspect that Ayu never made a third wish, and that that's what's binding her to this world
At some point she says exactly that: whatever she's looking for doesn't matter, since she must not need it in order to be happy. It's only after she sees the tree stump and her empty backpack that she starts freaking out.Hmmm. Do you think Ayu's thought processes are something like this?: (1) I've been searching for a missing item that is important, but I don't know what it is nor why it's important. (2) I found Yuuichi and have been happy, so maybe I don't have to search for the item. (3) I've suddenly learned that I've got screwed up memories and I may not exist. (4) I knew there was a reason I felt the missing item was important! It has something to do with this madness...I must find it!
I think I could buy this. Tying the urge to 'prove her existence' to 'finding the missing item' seems a bit tricky. However, if there was a mysterious thing that she always felt was important and that she had to find...and suddenly she realizes she's some supernatural, not-alive thing, she might suddenly pay a whole lot more attention to that strange urge to find the mysterious item.
I also suspect that Ayu never made a third wish, and that that's what's binding her to this worldI can see this being the case. There's still something that she wants to wish for, but she needs that doll for the wish to be 'right'. Maybe Ayu will simply tell Yuuichi the wish at near the finale, and that will allow her to depart (or she'll be miraculously revived?).
offtopic:Sucks when you get spoiled while you're not seeking the spoilers. ;__;Yeah, I got burned by spoilers too. I mean, how many first-time viewers didn't know that almost everyone familiar with the series thought Ayu Route/Ending is/was going to be the main, canon Ending/Route? (No pun intended).
I almost was burned by a 'car' spoiler, but a lot of the posts surrounding it were ridiculous so I was still left not knowing what to believe. :p Still, I admit that even cruising the episode thread leave me with darned 'hints' which are totally spoilers insofar as they point your speculations in a rather specific direction.
AvatarST
2007-02-18, 03:28
You know, there's spoiler tags.
Like these ones.
You use them like this: [ spoiler]text goes here[ /spoiler]
Remove the spaces of course. Dunno, thought you might want to know if you have to make another post like that. :heh:
See you 'round.
AvatarST: Eh? Use spoilers if who makes a post like what? As far as I know, everything posted has discussed only Kanon (2006) episodes that have already aired, or has been speculation and theorizing. Although if you're asking for episode-labelled spoiler tags, I suppose I could retro-actively label things. I'd forgotten to put them in since I assumed--and it seemed like--everyone reading the latest speculation would have watched the latest episode.
AvatarST
2007-02-18, 12:44
No, no...I wasn't criticizing you in the least. I wasn't saying you could spoil anyone, either, or that you needed to go back and mark spoilers.
I was referring to the fact that you made your last part of the post in a smaller font, so I thought perhaps you didn't know there were spoiler tags in case you wanted to hide something. I was just trying to be informative, you could say.
Seeing your join date, though, I imagine you already knew about this, so my apologies for sticking my nose into it. :heh:
FatPianoBoy
2007-02-18, 15:21
Hmmm. Do you think Ayu's thought processes are something like this?: (1) I've been searching for a missing item that is important, but I don't know what it is nor why it's important. (2) I found Yuuichi and have been happy, so maybe I don't have to search for the item. (3) I've suddenly learned that I've got screwed up memories and I may not exist. (4) I knew there was a reason I felt the missing item was important! It has something to do with this madness...I must find it!
I think I could buy this. Tying the urge to 'prove her existence' to 'finding the missing item' seems a bit tricky. However, if there was a mysterious thing that she always felt was important and that she had to find...and suddenly she realizes she's some supernatural, not-alive thing, she might suddenly pay a whole lot more attention to that strange urge to find the mysterious item.
That's almost exactly what I think she was thinking.
As for "proving her existence," that would go something like: "The school isn't there, my books aren't there, but if I can find whatever I'm looking for then at least I'll know I haven't completely gone off my rocker."
Maybe Ayu will simply tell Yuuichi the wish at near the finale, and that will allow her to depart (or she'll be miraculously revived?).
Revived? We already got one "get out of depression free" card with Mai. I doubt we'll get another one.
You know, there's spoiler tags.
Like these ones.
You use them like this: [ spoiler]text goes here[ /spoiler]
Remove the spaces of course. Dunno, thought you might want to know if you have to make another post like that. :heh:
See you 'round.
But a problem arises when people tag things that don't need to be tagged and don't label them, so you get used to just clicking on tags that aren't marked. When someone doens't mark a serious bomb, it ends in tears because we think it's just an episode-specific comment or speculation.
AvatarST
2007-02-18, 15:26
But a problem arises when people tag things that don't need to be tagged and don't label them, so you get used to just clicking on tags that aren't marked. When someone doens't mark a serious bomb, it ends in tears because we think it's just an episode-specific comment or speculation.
I guess so. Since he used a smaller font, I just thought maybe he was new to the forum and didn't know of their existence, so I informed him. Like I said, I was just trying to be nice and ended up sticking my nose in, so ignore me. :heh:
Either way, I agree that labeling spoilers is important. Else you don't know if it's safe to click or not.
That's almost exactly what I think she was thinking.
As for "proving her existence," that would go something like: "The school isn't there, my books aren't there, but if I can find whatever I'm looking for then at least I'll know I haven't completely gone off my rocker."
Revived? We already got one "get out of depression free" card with Mai. I doubt we'll get another one.Mmm. Now I'm torn between the coma-Ayu and dead-Ayu theories. They both have their evidence, but I feel they both depend on whether the 'doctor recognizing Ayu' was a red herring or not.
I think we might get another "get out of depression free" card...they have to somehow balance the mood at the end (I think). Makoto and Mai somewhat balance each other out on how they're resolved, and Shiori hasn't been permanently resolved. Plus, there's also Nayuki's story (if they ever get around to it...I'm not so sure). I can't see all of these stories being given depressing endings.
I think there are three main ending types: happy, bittersweet, and depressing.
In the 'happy ending', everything miraculously turns out rather well (e.g. Mai's story might be a 'happy' ending).
In the 'bittersweet ending', things will end badly, but in a way that allows all the parties to resolve their feelings so it's kinda happy. For instance, Shiori's ending might indicate that she'll still eventually die, but they'll live happily for now so the ending emphasizes the 'sweet' in bittersweet.
In the 'depressing ending', the people's hopes are pretty much ground into dirt. This might also be called the bittersweet ending, where things are far more bitter than sweet. Whatever tragedy occurs, the characters never really manage to overcome it. They're hit quite hard by the tragedy (i.e. the characters don't come to terms with the situation), and they do not defeat the tragedy itself. This might have been Shiori's ending, had she died without reconciling with Kaori (Makoto's ending comes closest to this one, I think).
How to balance these three endings? I can't really say, since I'm not really sure how much we'll get into Nayuki's story. I don't see that it's possible to have a set of episodes that feature Nayuki as there were with Makoto, Mai, and Shiori. But I'm not ruling out the 'happy Ayu ending' yet.
But a problem arises when people tag things that don't need to be tagged and don't label them, so you get used to just clicking on tags that aren't marked. When someone doens't mark a serious bomb, it ends in tears because we think it's just an episode-specific comment or speculation.Ahaha, that's true! I've been avoiding non-marked spoiler tags for Kanon, because I'm trying not to spoil myself accidentally. It's tough to avoid spoilers when you're trying to read what other people think as well.
I guess so. Since he used a smaller font, I just thought maybe he was new to the forum and didn't know of their existence, so I informed him. Like I said, I was just trying to be nice and ended up sticking my nose in, so ignore me. :heh
Either way, I agree that labeling spoilers is important. Else you don't know if it's safe to click or not.Actually, I hadn't thought of using spoiler tags to hide away off-topic stuff instead of spoiler information. Since they're called 'spoiler tags' I automatically only think to use them for spoilers. I'll have to consider using them in other ways more often in the future.
On the other hand, there's the decision on whether to put the off-topic quotations you're replying to in spoilers. If you do, the people you're replying to may not look, but if you don't and your response is short then the spoiler tags are of little use anyway.... Decisions, decisions.
Thanks for trying to be helpful, anyway. :)
Ascaloth
2007-02-18, 22:28
Maybe this can be brought up to the mods? You know, ask them if they can include something like an "off-topic" tag in the code? :heh:
Maybe this can be brought up to the mods? You know, ask them if they can include something like an "off-topic" tag in the code? :heh:But then then the people who post to the image threads will start demanding a NSFW tag! (That's where I've most often seen spoiler tags used consistently not for spoilers :heh:). I joke, I joke.
Ascaloth
2007-02-18, 22:46
But then then the people who post to the image threads will start demanding a NSFW tag! (That's where I've most often seen spoiler tags used consistently not for spoilers :heh:). I joke, I joke.
A NSFW tag? Not a bad idea, either! ;)
FatPianoBoy
2007-02-18, 23:37
Mmm. Now I'm torn between the coma-Ayu and dead-Ayu theories. They both have their evidence, but I feel they both depend on whether the 'doctor recognizing Ayu' was a red herring or not.
I doubt it was a red herring, honestly. Kanon hasn't really been one to do that ;)
I think we might get another "get out of depression free" card...they have to somehow balance the mood at the end (I think). Makoto and Mai somewhat balance each other out on how they're resolved, and Shiori hasn't been permanently resolved. Plus, there's also Nayuki's story (if they ever get around to it...I'm not so sure). I can't see all of these stories being given depressing endings.
Everyone's so convinced that we've got an Ayu ending on our hands now, but I'm not so sure. I mean, seriously: the girl vanished into thin air. There's gotta be a reason for that, and it's entirely possible that that's the last we'll see of her.
Personally, I think Yuuichi will end up alone after suffering a major nervous breakdown. If Mai gets better and saves Shiori (epilouge!), he may go that route. Nayuki ending may still be doable, too.
I think there are three main ending types: happy, bittersweet, and depressing.
*Snip*
How to balance these three endings? I can't really say, since I'm not really sure how much we'll get into Nayuki's story. I don't see that it's possible to have a set of episodes that feature Nayuki as there were with Makoto, Mai, and Shiori. But I'm not ruling out the 'happy Ayu ending' yet.
It's still very much up in the air at this point. I think by the end of the next episode we'll have a good idea of whether or not we should all start bawling over the loss of the uggu'd one.
Ahaha, that's true! I've been avoiding non-marked spoiler tags for Kanon, because I'm trying not to spoil myself accidentally. It's tough to avoid spoilers when you're trying to read what other people think as well.
Actually, I hadn't thought of using spoiler tags to hide away off-topic stuff instead of spoiler information. Since they're called 'spoiler tags' I automatically only think to use them for spoilers. I'll have to consider using them in other ways more often in the future.
On the other hand, there's the decision on whether to put the off-topic quotations you're replying to in spoilers. If you do, the people you're replying to may not look, but if you don't and your response is short then the spoiler tags are of little use anyway.... Decisions, decisions.
Thanks for trying to be helpful, anyway. :)
Off-topic problem solved?
Richard 23
2007-02-19, 04:08
I don't like the idea of the Ayu we see being the astral manifestation of her while she's in a coma because that's been used in another Key work.
What are you talking about?
Everyone's so convinced that we've got an Ayu ending on our hands now, but I'm not so sure. I mean, seriously: the girl vanished into thin air. There's gotta be a reason for that, and it's entirely possible that that's the last we'll see of her.
Personally, I think Yuuichi will end up alone after suffering a major nervous breakdown. If Mai gets better and saves Shiori (epilouge!), he may go that route. Nayuki ending may still be doable, too.
As much as my personal preference would be a Shiori or Nayuki ending, i doubt we will be seeing that. My theory is still on the comatose Ayu in a hospital, so now all we need to do is for U1 to find her.
Here comes in Akiko and her "watch out for cars" ... lets assume that Akiko gets in to an accident (the traffic there was rather heavy), and is placed in to hospital. Nayuki would probably spend the most of her time with Akiko, especially just after the accident.
Wih Mai, Sayuri, Akiko, Nayuki "hanging around" the hospital, Ayu being MIA, Shiori missing/in hospital where is the most likely place for U1 to be? Thats right - in the same hospital. What better way to run in to a comatose Ayu than spending the majority of your time loitering around the hospital ? :) ...
how things progress from there would be a wild guess, but i would think of either Ayu waking up and we have a "happy" Ayu ending ... with some Nayuki closure where U1 finally learns that she has feelings for him, but since he likes Ayu at this point, apologizes to her, and gives her some sort of a gift to get her off his case and reassure her that he cares for her(which i don't believe to be true in this version btw), just not in that way. (aka Gift ~Eternal Rainbow~ ... those who have seen it will know what i am talking about~)
Or a no-girl ending ... which also seems quite plausible. Tho i am blank about how the things with Ayu would have to turn out with this path. This one is, probably, better achieved with Ayu already being dead/not waking up from the coma.
Since he cares squat for Nayuki, that ending still wouldn't happen imo... and assuming we never learn what happens with Shiori, or her not making it(i will murder some one if she does not make it :mad: ), i could see a non-girl ending.
^Either one of those seem like the most plausible scenarios for me. (without calculation in things like Ayu's last wish(she still has this, so i don't quite believe she is dead yet - one more wish to be granted), Mai's healing powers, miracles etc...)
During some circumstances they could pull of a Shiori ending, Hanbun style for more drama (Shiori turning out to be alive, but it being certain that she will not live as long as every one would want to). Shiori ending would be very easy to create imo. (Would get bonus points for the "new girl" winning, seeing that she is the only one without any past connections to U1 :p )
Mai ending is something i would have problems to come up with in an instant, but i am sure it can be done, depending on how you interpret Yuuichi's "confession" back in the school when he stated that both him and Sayuri "like" Mai. But a Mai ending is the least one possible imo.
... why am i typing this >? I am bored, obviously :heh: , and my bet is either on Ayu end, or a no-girl end and Yuuichi high-tailing out of this city :heh: j/k
(Besides, my personal preferences have a "success rate" of 5% or so, so(i wonder if it is good to have 2 "so" in a sentence one after another) the thing i would prefer is not likely to come true and vice versa.... thus - we are going for an Ayu ending :heh:
Deathkillz
2007-02-19, 15:26
What are you talking about?
basically what FPB is saying is that he doesnt want the ayu we see now to be some kind of a spirit of her former self ~
ayu end? well im still hopeful for shiori to turn back up and take yuuichi! :D (she better come back or there will be fire! >.<)
Bloody Nightingale
2007-02-19, 15:37
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy
I don't like the idea of the Ayu we see being the astral manifestation of her while she's in a coma because that's been used in another Key work.
Just out of curiousity, which other Key work u refering to??? :confused:
Sry need someone to refresh my memory....
FatPianoBoy
2007-02-19, 17:41
Here comes in Akiko and her "watch out for cars" ... lets assume that Akiko gets in to an accident (the traffic there was rather heavy), and is placed in to hospital. Nayuki would probably spend the most of her time with Akiko, especially just after the accident.
Wih Mai, Sayuri, Akiko, Nayuki "hanging around" the hospital, Ayu being MIA, Shiori missing/in hospital where is the most likely place for U1 to be? Thats right - in the same hospital. What better way to run in to a comatose Ayu than spending the majority of your time loitering around the hospital ? :) ...
Look forward to a cookie if this plays out like this. Speculation this well conceived deserves props if it's right ;)
Or a no-girl ending ... which also seems quite plausible. Tho i am blank about how the things with Ayu would have to turn out with this path. This one is, probably, better achieved with Ayu already being dead/not waking up from the coma.
Since he cares squat for Nayuki, that ending still wouldn't happen imo... and assuming we never learn what happens with Shiori, or her not making it(i will murder some one if she does not make it :mad: ), i could see a non-girl ending.
So we're in agreement that it's pretty much 'Ayu or bust' at this point :heh:
Seeing him suddenly go from barely noticing Nayuki's existence to being madly in love with her would be way too much of a stretch, especially with only four (six?) episodes left to make it happen. It'd get contrived very easily.
During some circumstances they could pull of a Shiori ending, Hanbun style for more drama (Shiori turning out to be alive, but it being certain that she will not live as long as every one would want to). Shiori ending would be very easy to create imo. (Would get bonus points for the "new girl" winning, seeing that she is the only one without any past connections to U1 :p )
The little sqeeing Shiori fanboy in me keeps hoping that she somehow hangs on long enough for Mai to recouperate. Bonus points if Ayu's dead (although I love Ayu, too; but if she's gone she's gone) and #2 gets promoted to #1 ;). Not like it'll happen, but you can't take away my right to dream.
Mai ending is something i would have problems to come up with in an instant, but i am sure it can be done, depending on how you interpret Yuuichi's "confession" back in the school when he stated that both him and Sayuri "like" Mai. But a Mai ending is the least one possible imo.
Mai ending would be fail. Mai's awesome and all, but it just doesn't work.
Just out of curiousity, which other Key work u refering to??? :confused:
Sry need someone to refresh my memory....
Clannad
Ibiki Fuuko
Bloody Nightingale
2007-02-19, 18:18
Clannad
Ibiki Fuuko
Thnx for reminding me =)
But refering to ur earlier comment...
Didn't Kanon come b4 CLANNAD?
Mai ending, hmm.............I'd love to see that but.......... meh. :heh:
AvatarST
2007-02-19, 18:30
I also see some parallels betwee Mizuiro's Hiyori and Ayu. In fact, that's where most of my speculation comes from, and I believe that Ayu is indeed in a comatose. However, I'm not sure why she can be around Yuuichi. She must have a strong reason. What is it? Yuuichi himself? That one remaining wish she still has? Did she "appear" recently when Yuuichi came back to the city or was she always there waiting for him?
FatPianoBoy
2007-02-19, 18:40
Thnx for reminding me =)
But refering to ur earlier comment...
Didn't Kanon come b4 CLANNAD?
It did, but either way it's a pretty blatant recycling; no matter which story it initially came from :o
Chaos2Frozen
2007-02-19, 19:20
But the way I see it (at the moment of course) , Mai/Sayuri and Nayuki are the only ones left 'standing'.
In terms of the possibilities of their ending, Mai DOES have a history with Yuuichi, don't forget that it's even older than when he met Ayu. I don't see anything wrong with the 2(3) of them hooking up after this whole mess, Mai knows about all the strange things that happen around, it wouldn't be unusual for Yuuichi to talk to her about his thoughts and feelings ...
And if you think about it, it'll be nice to see the first anime threesome pairing :)
And Nayuki doesn't seem to be dying/disappearing from anything, even though he doesn't interact with her as well as the other girls (But he has his reasons...), it's not like he's completely cold to her either... I'm not sure how the ending went for Nayuki in the game, but it'll be interesting to see a different ending this time. (Yes, I didn't watch 2002's one, but I might...!)
But unless something BIG happens, there won't be any change in character interaction between her and Yuuichi...
Makoto... Well, lets not pour salt on th-...
I don't know why people feel that Shiori stands a better chance then Mai, because of the kiss I guess... But things are looking grim for her, even if she makes it - Yuuichi seems too much like an older brother with her...
And then there's Ayu... Sigh, if she comes back at the end (alive), then case is close. If it's something else... I'm all behind Nayuki's/Mai's ending.
I don't know why people feel that Shiori stands a better chance then Mai, because of the kiss I guess... But things are looking grim for her, even if she makes it - Yuuichi seems too much like an older brother with her...
It seems that way to you, not for every one :p She already expressed her interest in Yuuichi, so bleh. Ayu's arc aside, Shiori's arc was the most romance-orientated(which was not much, but it was still more than the other arcs, which had squat of it.)
You think he looks like a big brother near Shiori...well, how do you think he looks standing beside Ayu ? :eyespin: Besides - i didn't know that Brothers tend to go out on dates with their sisters, hold hands while walking trough a park(blushing included from Shiori), and end it with a kiss on a cheek with blushing from both parties :heh: (Unless we are talking about Brother/sister complex, whi9ch would not be exactly helping your argument :heh: )
The only girls who wouldn't seem "small" compared to him are, probably, Mai and Nayuki. I might be wrong, but he is pretty tall for an average asian male, no ?;)
As i said - Shiori's ending would be easy to come up with at this point. Give me a pen and a sheet of paper (Keyboard and MSword will do), and i could easily produce a fanfic with Shiori's ending at this point.
While i would not be even sure where to start exactly with a Mai ending. I am sure i could pull it off, but it would require much more work from me to make it decent looking.
Hm... has been a while since i wrote anything due to lack of inspiration... maybe it is worth producing a Shiori fanfic when this thing is over with.
Either way - As FPB said, it is pretty much "Ayu or bust" at this point.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-02-20, 08:36
You think he looks like a big brother near Shiori...well, how do you think he looks standing beside Ayu ? :eyespin: Besides - i didn't know that Brothers tend to go out on dates with their sisters, hold hands while walking trough a park(blushing included from Shiori), and end it with a kiss on a cheek with blushing from both parties :heh: (Unless we are talking about Brother/sister complex, whi9ch would not be exactly helping your argument :heh: )
I know and I don't like how it looks :D ! Hence my sighing... (And no, I'm not talking about sibling complex =P)
But I'm not saying Shiori doesn't have an interest in him, I'm just saying (from what you quoted from me) in terms of feelings, I don't feel that she should be place in a higher position than Mai just because she express it more... But if you look at it in terms of the story, Shiori has a pretty grim chance of making it out alive, while Mai's well and kicking.
But this is from a guy who hasn't finish the story yet... So I'm prepared for pleasant surprises...
Either way - As FPB said, it is pretty much "Ayu or bust" at this point.
I agree, but there's always... 'Hope' (lol :p!)
Deathkillz
2007-02-20, 16:19
^ shocking you used my pun! :p
... But if you look at it in terms of the story, Shiori has a pretty grim chance of making it out alive, while Mai's well and kicking.
hmm ill like for shiori to survive but to me if mai ends up being the one healing her it looks and feels a bit cheesy ~ i think it would be best if they either give her a better scene as to why she was able to heal (without mai's help) or die a death that will make me cry a river ~ >.<
Klashikari
2007-02-20, 17:13
if mai is able to heal anyone, this would be a terrible deus ex machina (whatever the tragedy, mai is here, cheers to the goddess ! (meh, i won't really be displeased, but meh ~~)) just like you said deathy.
and frankly, it wouldn't happen like this : mai was able to revive 2 persons, under a specific stress and devotion. in our case, she has absolutely no relationship with shiori, it's even worse : they are complete strangers.
since mai isn't really that good with her powers, asking her to heal randomly is simply unrealistic.
if shiori survive somehow, there isn't really a need for a complete explanation, since you have lots of real "miracle cases", though it would be "again another miracle" (since we have the 5 girls story in a row, well this seems too much :heh:)
I'll tell you what's more cheesy: Mai no Hope cures not just Shiori, but Ayu and possible victim(s) of car accident even if it's Nayuki, Akiko, Yuuichi, or all of them and that's not all she changes Makoto to back human and gives Yuuichis full memory back. :heh:
Chaos2Frozen
2007-02-20, 22:23
^
AKA.
'Reset Button'.
Bloody Nightingale
2007-02-20, 23:09
It seems we are turning Mai's very existence into a cheat :twitch:
FatPianoBoy
2007-02-21, 00:13
It seems we are turning Mai's very existence into a cheat :twitch:
A character with healing powers in a tragedy? I'd call that cheating... :heh:
In other news, I'm toying with a new approach to the Ayu dynamic:
Ayu doesn't fall from the tree. Since she could probably catch herself if she did fall (fly away...), I'm having trouble with this.
Maybe her second wish is for Yuuichi to watch the sunset with her from atop that tree. Being terrified of high places, he of course tumbles straight out of the tree.
Ayu flies down to meet him and, discovering that he's dying, whips up a miracle and sacrifices herself to save him, with her third wish being "Live!" or something.
She's come back because her first wish went unfulfilled. She managed to stick around after the fact because of her memory being gone (price of a miracle is someone's memories and someone's life). Perhaps spending time with Yuuichi was also part of the miracle she wished for, and once she remembered (Makoto began to remember a few things just before she took a nosedive), she couldn't stay anymore, and vanished.
Bloody Nightingale
2007-02-21, 01:25
A character with healing powers in a tragedy? I'd call that cheating... :heh:
In other news, I'm toying with a new approach to the Ayu dynamic:
Ayu doesn't fall from the tree. Since she could probably catch herself if she did fall (fly away...), I'm having trouble with this.
Maybe her second wish is for Yuuichi to watch the sunset with her from atop that tree. Being terrified of high places, he of course tumbles straight out of the tree.
Ayu flies down to meet him and, discovering that he's dying, whips up a miracle and sacrifices herself to save him, with her third wish being "Live!" or something.
She's come back because her first wish went unfulfilled. She managed to stick around after the fact because of her memory being gone (price of a miracle is someone's memories and someone's life). Perhaps spending time with Yuuichi was also part of the miracle she wished for, and once she remembered (Makoto began to remember a few things just before she took a nosedive), she couldn't stay anymore, and vanished.
My my from the sound of that, Ayu's wish mite as well do another great cheat in the story :heh:
Something for fun, I'm beginning to wonder how many cheat existence are there in Kanon :heh:
So far i can only come up with few:
Mai's power = cheat
Ayu's wish = cheat
Akiko's jam = cheat
What else is there :heh:
FatPianoBoy
2007-02-21, 01:37
I don't know if I'd call that a 'cheat.' Cheating would be working miracles without having to give up anything in return (like when Mai healed her mother; although you could say that she exchanged a normal life for that), but Ayu would be giving up her existence for Yuuichi's in this case.
Bloody Nightingale
2007-02-21, 01:48
I don't know if I'd call that a 'cheat.' Cheating would be working miracles without having to give up anything in return (like when Mai healed her mother; although you could say that she exchanged a normal life for that), but Ayu would be giving up her existence for Yuuichi's in this case.
:heh:
i was refering to, teh ability to make absolutely unfair changes in terms of storyline :heh:
speaking of which, i just remembered seeing someone else out there had proposed the following:
potential spoiler just in case:
Ayu's wish will be used to recover Mai "almighty" 's power, and after that, u no what to do :heh:
Something for laughs :heh:
My my from the sound of that, Ayu's wish mite as well do another great cheat in the story :heh:
Something for fun, I'm beginning to wonder how many cheat existence are there in Kanon :heh:
So far i can only come up with few:
Mai's power = cheat
Ayu's wish = cheat
Akiko's jam = cheat
What else is there :heh:
The friendly kitsune community living next door? Quoted from Mishio at the end of Episode 10 : "Somehow, if all the foxes work together for a common goal, they can produce a huge miracle......"
And, of course, the greatest cheat will be ..... Mahou Shoujo Sayuri! :heh:
Muahaha *scores*
- My little theory about Akiko getting in to an accident proves to be true.
The doll has been found, and it has one wish left... i am willing to believe that my little theory that the one wish will have to be a choice between Akiko and Ayu has a pretty high chance of coming true as well ... i can imagine the spirit Ayu appearing again and she has to make a choice... and she choses Akiko and then disappears herself, and the comatose Ayu(yes, i believe she is in coma) never wakes up (or worse) :) ...ohh, the potential for drama >.<
Now all we need is for them to find the comatose Ayu in hospital... Akiko being in hospital is a great reason for Yuuichi/Nayuki to hang around there.
Now... Yuuichi was quite upset at the moment Nayuki confessed to him 7 years ago ... why ? Was it because Ayu had already gotten herself in to an accident? If that is so...then when did Yuuichi lose his memory?
By the way - any one wants to bet a cookie that Nayuki changed her hairstyle because of Yuuichi as well ? :) I am willing to bet he made some insulting/mean remark towards her pigtails in the past.
And is it only me, or did the possibility for Nayuki ending just went up, with Yuuichi realizing how mean he has been to Nayuki and all ? (though realistically speaking that will never happen :heh:)
Deathkillz
2007-02-23, 17:39
Muahaha *scores*
- My little theory about Akiko getting in to an accident proves to be true.
The doll has been found, and it has one wish left... i am willing to believe that my little theory that the one wish will have to be a choice between Akiko and Ayu has a pretty high chance of coming true as well ... i can imagine the spirit Ayu appearing again and she has to make a choice... and she choses Akiko and then disappears herself, and the comatose Ayu(yes, i believe she is in coma) never wakes up (or worse) :) ...ohh, the potential for drama >.<
Now all we need is for them to find the comatose Ayu in hospital... Akiko being in hospital is a great reason for Yuuichi/Nayuki to hang around there.
Now... Yuuichi was quite upset at the moment Nayuki confessed to him 7 years ago ... why ? Was it because Ayu had already gotten herself in to an accident? If that is so...then when did Yuuichi lose his memory?
By the way - any one wants to bet a cookie that Nayuki changed her hairstyle because of Yuuichi as well ? :) I am willing to bet he made some insulting/mean remark towards her pigtails in the past.
And is it only me, or did the possibility for Nayuki ending just went up, with Yuuichi realizing how mean he has been to Nayuki and all ? (though realistically speaking that will never happen :heh:)
dam you and your theory...oh how my heart still pains watching that scene :( damit!! things like this just shouldnt happen (especially to a MILF) :sad:
okey the solid reason why yuuichi was crying...its because ayu already had the accident at that time ~ and it was the last since yuuichi has ever visited nayuki for 7 years ~
i guess nayuki just confessed her love at the wrong place and the wrong time...i deeply feel for her when yuuichi batted that bunny from her hand :(
DAM YOU man...i know yuuichi is upset but really...nayuki is left scarred for 7 long years and still yuuichi cant remember until the last minute...does he know how much angst nayuki must have felt is still feeling keeping her emotions locked up inside?
the reason why he lost his memory? think of elfen lied ~ i think thats a pretty good reason to why ~
and that cookie...i like going against the odds so ill bet that it isnt true...she did say that she changed her hair style only last year :heh:
CrowKenobi
2007-02-23, 17:47
and that cookie...i like going against the odds so ill bet that it isnt true...she did say that she changed her hair style only last year :heh:I'm not betting anything since I'm spoiled (on purpose, natch!), but I'm going to chip in and say that she changed her hairstyle because Yuuichi was going to move to town; to show him how grown up and mature she has become, and not the little kid in pigtails that she was. :D (Too bad he saw her as 'only his cousin' until recently)
Close enough? ;)
:cool:
Deathkillz
2007-02-23, 17:53
I'm not betting anything since I'm spoiled (on purpose, natch!), but I'm going to chip in and say that she changed her hairstyle because Yuuichi was going to move to town; to show him how grown up and mature she has become, and not the little kid in pigtails that she was. :D (Too bad he saw her as 'only his cousin' until recently)
Close enough? ;)
:cool:
dam you...no fun to spoil it right off the bat >.< okey okey skyfall heres your cookie...happy eating and i hope you choke :heh:
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