Code Geass - Spoilers & Speculation (old)

[jtjr26]

I actually think Lulu is quite a good pilot of KMF's. Yes he would never be an elite level, but his intelligence does put him a cut or two above the average grunt. Lulu is a true general in the modern sense of the word, by which he makes the plans/strategy, and delegates to his commanders to carry out battle plans. Although given the limited numbers of the Order of Black Knights he often finds himself at or near the front.

If you all remember from R1 when Lulu first spoke with CC, he said that it would accelerate his plans greatly. In other words he was scheming back then to revenge himself on Britannia, through political/economic/terrorist means. He certainly wasn't in training to be a athlete or soldier. The very fact he could control a KMF so well shows his intelligence and skill. He was never going to be a physical presence, that is amply shown throughout the series.

We have all seen any time he goes up against an elite pilot he usually gets his but kicked, and conversely almost any time he puts brain up against brawn he usually wins. Its when he is distracted or underestimates an opponent he is venerable.

[Dann of Thursday]

That's slightly extreme. I'm more of something like how he dealt with Urabe's sacrifice.

No, I doubt it would be anything so respectful and nice. Since it's C.C., it would have to be cold and cruel. And it's what you'd want going from your comments anyway.


And Lelouch is a mediocre pilot. Taniguchi said he was made that way.

[Narona]

*Evil Laughter*
I was already afraid <_<, a man who seems to

- speak many languages fluently (english, Korean, japanese, chinese etc. But I could be wrong)
- know a lot about science, history of many countries etc.

Are you even human <_<


Not surprised. I would expect that of most Kallen fans.

Actually, you're more harsh than any kallen fans here :heh:

[Kang Seung Jae]

No, I doubt it would be anything so respectful and nice. Since it's C.C., it would have to be cold and cruel. And it's what you'd want going from your comments anyway.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.


And Lelouch is a mediocre pilot. Taniguchi said he was made that way.

But still better than a civilian (like that matters :heh:)


I was already afraid <_<, a man who seems to

- speak many languages fluently (english, Korean, japanese, chinese etc. But I could be wrong)
- know a lot about science, history of many countries etc.

Are you even human <_<

1. Try attending a Foreign Language High School that forces you to be able to speak more than 3 languages.

2. Social Study happens to be my strongest point. Science is just a side hobby.

[Dann of Thursday]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

But still better than a civilian (like that matters :heh:)

You were the one laughing maniacally about hurting C.C.. The crueler the better, isn't that right?

He's probably about as good as the average soldier.

1. Try attending a Foreign Language High School that forces you to be able to speak more than 3 languages.

2. Social Science happens to be my strongest point.

That explains why you chose the person you chose. You saw that it made more sense scientifically. I wish I was smart enough to have been better at such a thing and could have enjoyed this more.

[KrimzonStriker]

See what you went and did Kang? Look at poor Dann, he's a mess now :heh:

[Kang Seung Jae]

You were the one laughing maniacally about hurting C.C.. The crueler the better, isn't that right?

Perhaps..... I think my sadistic, evil side is working up after listening to the full version of Touhou Sweets twenty times.

[Dann of Thursday]

Meh, Kang probably likes me this way anyway. Besides, with being good at social science, you have a better understanding on why people act certain ways and such so that's why Kang is a Kallen fan.

Perhaps..... I think my sadistic, evil side is working up after listening to the full version of Touhou Sweets twenty times.

There is no perhaps. You either want to see C.C. die screaming in extreme pain while Lelouch looks on happily or you don't.

[Pan chan]

He won't care. He'll probably be happy or something. No reason why he'd be sad about her dying. He doesn't care about her that much at all.



Yes that's why he said "C.C don't die" in episode 25 :uhoh:

I got a question : Who is the one Tian Zi is engaged to ? I thought it was Schneizel but I read somewhere about Odysseus and when i tried to find an answer on that topic, it has confused me even more...

[Kang Seung Jae]

Meh, Kang probably likes me this way anyway. Besides, with being good at social science, you have a better understanding on why people act certain ways and such so that's why Kang is a Kallen fan.

Well, I consider myself behind when it comes to personal relations except for when it comes to war (having been a ROK Marine/Riot Police for my mandatory military service) and the pains of a schoolgirl's broken heart (since for some strange reason, I'm like a Oppa/Onii-chan for the juniors at the schools I go to :rolleyes:)


There is no perhaps. You either want to see C.C. die screaming in extreme pain while Lelouch looks on happily or you don't.

Having C.C. die painfully has no connection to how I view the possible reactions of Lelouch.

[Dann of Thursday]

Yes that's why he said "C.C don't die" in episode 25 :uhoh:

I got a question : Who is the one Tian Zi is engaged to ? I thought it was Schneizel but I read somewhere about Odysseus and when i tried to find an answer on that topic, it has confused me even more...

He needs a source for info on Geass and someone to dress like Zero at certain times and pilot since he can't.

Not sure at the moment. The novel has it as Odysseus, but that novel can be very inaccurate about some things.

Having C.C. die painfully has no connection to how I view the possible reactions of Lelouch.

Yes it does. Meh, it'll be painful no matter what.

[Narona]

That explains why you chose the person you chose. You saw that it made more sense scientifically. I wish I was smart enough to have been better at such a thing and could have enjoyed this more.

Meh, Kang probably likes me this way anyway. Besides, with being good at social science, you have a better understanding on why people act certain ways and such so that's why Kang is a Kallen fan.
So the C.C. fans are just some idiots with no social understanding? :frustrated:

I hate you :upset: :heh:


1. Try attending a Foreign Language High School that forces you to be able to speak more than 3 languages.

2. Social Study happens to be my strongest point. Science is just a side hobby.
I already said it, are you even human... <_< :heh:


See what you went and did Kang? Look at poor Dann, he's a mess now :heh:
:heh:

[Kang Seung Jae]

Yes it does. Meh, it'll be painful no matter what.

Restatement: Having C.C. die painfully has no connection to how my personal view of the situation will affect the possible reactions of Lelouch.


I already said it, are you even human... <_< :heh:

Interest is everything.

[Dann of Thursday]

So the C.C. fans are just some idiots with no social understanding? :frustrated:

I hate you :upset: :heh:

We'd have to be to pick something so unlikely and silly.

Everyone else does already.

Restatement: Having C.C. die painfully has no connection to how my personal view of the situation will affect the possible reactions of Lelouch.

Meh, either way you win.

[Lugia_Tsuyu]

Both of you got to stop this 'C.C. is going to die and no one will care about it' conversation. It's getting more ridiculous.

If you don't like C.C. that much, and want her to die painfully, keep them to yourself. There are people who like C.C. and think she's awesome character and she deserves some happiness in her life.

Keep the dislikes or whatever you want to call it in limits, please.

[KrimzonStriker]

Both of you got to stop this 'C.C. is going to die and no one will care about it' conversation. It's getting more ridiculous.

If you don't like C.C. that much, and want her to die painfully, keep them to yourself. There are people who like C.C. and think she's awesome character and she deserves some happiness in her life.

Keep the dislikes or whatever you want to call it in limits, please.

Amen Lugia, this has become a bashing thread now :uhoh:

[Pan chan]

He needs a source for info on Geass and someone to dress like Zero at certain times and pilot since he can't.

Not sure at the moment. The novel has it as Odysseus, but that novel can be very inaccurate about some things.



Well Lelouch could easily find someone in order to pilot and to dress like zero. As for the geass, C.C isn't very talkative about that :uhoh:. So yeah I think he cares for her.

Ah so we still don't know about the futur groom, okay thank you .

[Kang Seung Jae]

Both of you got to stop this 'C.C. is going to die and no one will care about it' conversation. It's getting more ridiculous.

If you don't like C.C. that much, and want her to die painfully, keep them to yourself. There are people who like C.C. and think she's awesome character and she deserves some happiness in her life.

Keep the dislikes or whatever you want to call it in limits, please.

1. I never said "no one will care".


2. This is a Spoilers & Speculation thread. As long as I don't insult people personally, I believe there are no restriction to what I post.


3. Most important: I don't hate C.C. I just feel that giving her a happy ending will take away from the potential of the ending. Think of the TTGL ending.

[Dann of Thursday]

Both of you got to stop this 'C.C. is going to die and no one will care about it' conversation. It's getting more ridiculous.

If you don't like C.C. that much, and want her to die painfully, keep them to yourself. There are people who like C.C. and think she's awesome character and she deserves some happiness in her life.

Keep the dislikes or whatever you want to call it in limits, please.

Is it?

I don't want her to die at all. I'd rather she get a good ending where she can finally be happy without having to concern herself with that contract. But that isn't likely to happen so there is no point in hoping for such a thing.

[KrimzonStriker]

1. I never said "no one will care".


2. This is a Spoilers & Speculation thread. As long as I don't insult people personally, I believe there are no restriction to what I post.


3. Most important: I don't hate C.C. I just feel that giving her a happy ending will take away from the potential of the ending. Think of the TTGL ending.

Don't mention TTGL in front of Dann Kang!! :frustrated:

And besides, she's so marked for death I find it far too obvious that they give her a tragic ending, bittersweet maybe but I'm counting on Tanaguchi to pull in his 'small hints of hope in the future' like he's done in the past ;)

[Elicit]

@Lugia Tsuyu

Although, you also have to allow other people their opinion, however much you dislike them. Personally, I wouldn't mind a C.C. death - not to say I would like it, but, moreover if they're going to kill her, it has to be very meaningful and well done. C.C.'s too much of a popular character to crap out on a rushed, half-assed execution.

I would disagree that Lelouch wouldn't have as much big of a reaction if something happened to C.C. that might spell actual "death" for her. Might not be initially as Suzaku, but, yes, the fervor to defeat his enemies sparked even more, yeah. Whether we like it or not, Lelouch views C.C. as an important person, be it business or otherwise (although many would obviously argue on me on the last one, so, I won't bother).

[demon_god04]

Don't mention TTGL in front of Dann Kang!! :frustrated:

Just out of curiosity, what is TTGL?

[Elicit]

Tengen Toppa Guren Lagann.

[Lugia_Tsuyu]

Sorry for all this Dann. But don't you think it's better to have hope? If it's not turning out like what we want, then we accept it. But if you don't have hope and keep saying negative things and think only about negative things, when things turned out to be good like what you truly want it to be, you'd feel bad about all the times you spent worrying and thinking it was impossible.

Well, that's my way of thinking.

[KrimzonStriker]

@Lugia Tsuyu

Although, you also have to allow other people their opinion, however much you dislike them. Personally, I wouldn't mind a C.C. death - not to say I would like it, but, moreover if they're going to kill her, it has to be very meaningful and well done. C.C.'s too much of a popular character to crap out on a rushed, half-assed execution.

I would disagree that Lelouch wouldn't have as much big of a reaction if something happened to C.C. that might spell actual "death" for her. Might not be initially as Suzaku, but, yes, the fervor to defeat his enemies sparked even more, yeah. Whether we like it or not, Lelouch views C.C. as an important person, be it business or otherwise (although many would obviously argue on me on the last one, so, I won't bother).

I don't know, it starts to become almost spam like when you type stuff up like you are cackling evilly over the prospect and demanding she die horribly and painfully. Over excessive much? :heh:

[Narona]

Everyone else does already.

I was joking, baka Dann <_<


Interest is everything.
I see :)

Both of you got to stop this 'C.C. is going to die and no one will care about it' conversation. It's getting more ridiculous.

If you don't like C.C. that much, and want her to die painfully, keep them to yourself. There are people who like C.C. and think she's awesome character and she deserves some happiness in her life.

Keep the dislikes or whatever you want to call it in limits, please.
You don't get it:

- Dann likes C.C.
- Dann wants her to have a happy ending
- Dann doesn't want her to die
- But Dann is an over pessimistic guy.

[Elicit]

I don't know, it starts to become almost spam like when you type stuff up like you are cackling evilly over the prospect and demanding she die horribly and painfully. Over excessive much? :heh:

True, yes. It gets old really fast.

[Dann of Thursday]

Well Lelouch could easily find someone in order to pilot and to dress like zero. As for the geass, C.C isn't very talkative about that :uhoh:.

Ah so we still don't know about the futur groom, okay thank you .

I suppose. There are actually a few aces out there who would be better than her.

I would expect Schneizal myself, but it might not be him.

1. I never said "no one will care".


2. This is a Spoilers & Speculation thread. As long as I don't insult people personally, I believe there are no restriction to what I pst.


3. Most important: I don't hate C.C. I just feel that giving her a happy ending will take away from the potential of the ending. Think of the TTGL ending.

Who would care?

You liked the TTGL ending? It wasn't entirely bad, but it is pretty much why I am like this here. And you can't say her living in the end would have taken anything away. Actually, I think it would have fit better with the theme of doing the impossible.

Don't mention TTGL in front of Dann Kang!! :frustrated:

And besides, she's so marked for death I find it far too obvious that they give her a tragic ending, bittersweet maybe but I'm counting on Tanaguchi to pull in his 'small hints of hope in the future' like he's done in the past ;)

Kang doesn't know about that whole thing.

I doubt such a vague thing will happen with her. She'll go the way of Ray from GXS or Scherise from s-CRY-ed

Just out of curiosity, what is TTGL?

Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann. The show where I was like this here, got my hopes up and was screwed over in the end.

[demon_god04]

You know just because one show was like that, you don't have to be completely pessimistic about it.

I'd almost wish they would go with C.C x Lulu just to prove your pessimism wrong :heh:

[Dann of Thursday]

Sorry for all this Dann. But don't you think it's better to have hope? If it's not turning out like what we want, then we accept it. But if you don't have hope and keep saying negative things and think only about negative things, when things turned out to be good like what you truly want it to be, you'd feel bad about all the times you spent worrying and thinking it was impossible.

Well, that's my way of thinking.

Not when hoping always leads to constant disappointment. If I am always pessimistic, then I can't be disappointed and sad because I already am. And I've never actually had an encounter with something where I ended up being wrong about my pessimistic.

You know just because one show was like that, you don't have to be completely pessimistic about it.

I'd almost wish they would go with C.C x Lulu just to prove your pessimism wrong :heh:

Oh, it wasn't just this. It's pretty much every show I watch.

[Kang Seung Jae]

I don't know, it starts to become almost spam like when you type stuff up like you are cackling evilly over the prospect and demanding she die horribly and painfully. Over excessive much? :heh:

Listening to Touhou Sweets twenty times as such effects.


I personally love bittersweet endings: It's so similar to reality.

[demon_god04]

Not when hoping always leads to constant disappointment. If I am always pessimistic, then I can't be disappointed and sad because I already am. And I've never actually had an encounter with something where I ended up being wrong about my pessimistic.



Oh, it wasn't just this. It's pretty much every show I watch.

hey it's still early in the series, so who knows maybe Lulu will turn Kallen down.

[Dann of Thursday]

Listening to Touhou Sweets twenty times as such effects.


I personally love bittersweet endings: It's so similar to reality.

You know, it's possible to have a realistic ending that isn't bittersweet.

hey it's still early in the series, so who knows maybe Lulu will turn Kallen down.

Hahahaah, like that's going to happen after everything they have been doing. There is no reason he would and Kallen isn't backing down.

[Kang Seung Jae]

You know, it's possible to have a realistic ending that isn't bittersweet.

I know, but then, I'm a bittersweet person. ;)

[KrimzonStriker]

You know, it's possible to have a realistic ending that isn't bittersweet.



Hahahaah, like that's going to happen after everything they have been doing. There is no reason he would and Kallen isn't backing down.

Hah, Kallen isn't even up enough to be backing down, she's certainly not upfront about whatever feelings she might have and periodically denies it even when everyone knows otherwise. And Lelouch is indifferent, he has every reason to turn her down considering how much of a thunderhead he is on this subject >_>

[Dann of Thursday]

Meh, I don't get people like you. What's wrong with a realistic happy ending where the future is still uncertain?

[Lugia_Tsuyu]

I'd still hope. It's not like I don't see C.C. lying dead and Lelouch visits her grave. TT_TT <<< LOL (Yes, I cry and laugh at the same time.) But I will not let my hope down until it actually happens.

Well, I think we gotta find the subject to talk that doesn't involve C.C. dying in the end or something like that.

And I said it before, I actually don't mind Lelouch x Kallen. I think Kallen is pretty awesome.

I actually like the ending where the future is still uncertain. It seems more real. If you know everything from the start to the end, you just have it that way. But if you have it uncertain, you can think of more possibilities and other stuff by yourself, which I enjoy a lot <<< Yes, I like to daydream about things. lol.

[KrimzonStriker]

Meh, I don't get people like you. What's wrong with a realistic happy ending where the future is still uncertain?

I know right, honestly I get tired of all these tragically bittersweet endings after going through so many other animes like them... <_<

[Dann of Thursday]

Hah, Kallen isn't even up enough to be backing down, she's certainly not upfront about whatever feelings she might have and periodically denies it even when everyone knows otherwise. And Lelouch is indifferent, he has every reason to turn her down considering how much of a thunderhead he is on this subject >_>

Considering this is the season that actually has romance, he won't be ignoring her and since she is the first one to be so forward with him as well as the person he is closest to in terms of romance, he isn't going to get any other options to choose from and thus his feelings don't matter.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Meh, I don't get people like you. What's wrong with a realistic happy ending where the future is still uncertain?

Nothing wrong, it's just my personal preferance.


Perhaps it's because of losing several friends to mines, DPRK soldiers, etc.

[demon_god04]

Hahahaah, like that's going to happen after everything they have been doing. There is no reason he would and Kallen isn't backing down.

Well, C.C did mention that the power of the king will isolate him and that she would be the only person beside him...

Wow thats a shaky reason -.- maybe if I wasn't a Kallen fan I'd be more motivated to think of a better reason C.C and Lulu could work :heh:

Although to be honest it is still undecided and theres a nagging voice at the back of my head that says they will push for C.C after Kallen gets a few more scenes in.

[KrimzonStriker]

Nothing wrong, it's just my personal preferance.


Perhaps it's because of losing several friends to mines, DPRK soldiers, etc.

That kind of stuff happens and you grow to like it? :rolleyes:

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Well, C.C did mention that the power of the king will isolate him and that she would be the only person beside him...

She did say that the power of the king would make him lonely, but I don't recall her saying that other bit?

[Kang Seung Jae]

That kind of stuff happens and you grow to like it? :rolleyes:

Prefer would be a better word for it.

[Dann of Thursday]

Nothing wrong, it's just my personal preferance.


Perhaps it's because of losing several friends to mines, DPRK soldiers, etc.

Well, I'm sorry about those losses.

Well, C.C did mention that the power of the king will isolate him and that she would be the only person beside him...

Wow thats a shaky reason -.- maybe if I wasn't a Kallen fan I'd be more motivated to think of a better reason C.C and Lulu could work :heh:

Although to be honest it is still undecided and theres a nagging voice at the back of my head that says they will push for C.C after Kallen gets a few more scenes in.

That just indicates he won't end up alone in the end and that line was probably just further manipulation on her part and also begs to be proven untrue.

Don't bother, since there is no point to thinking of a reason something like that could ever have worked.

Maybe, but at this point it doesn't seem likely.

[KrimzonStriker]

Prefer would be a better word for it.

I try to never have preferences in regards to optimistic naivety and realistic pessimism, neither one is an attitude conducive to my best interests when overly used or leaned on too heavily, the middle road often strikes me as the far more suitable one I feel. If everyone here was all for the happy SAZ plan of Euphemia's I'd have had major problems with that as I do with all this 'C.C must die horribly and painfully' mantra going on :p

[Kang Seung Jae]

I try to never have preferences in regards to optimistic naivety and realistic pessimism, neither one is an attitude conducive to my best interests when overly used or leaned on too heavily, the middle road often strikes me as the far more suitable one I feel.

How is a bittersweet ending pessimistic?

[Tokkan]

How is a bittersweet ending pessimistic?

Indeed. IMHO, bittersweet endings tend to be a lot more meaningful than happy endings.

[KrimzonStriker]

How is a bittersweet ending pessimistic?

I don't know, was there a bright spot in your assessment? :confused:

[Kang Seung Jae]

I don't know, was there a bright spot in your assessment? :confused:

I would say Lelouch succeeding would be a "bright spot".


A bittersweet ending is where even though there are tragedies, the ending itself is a "comedy".

[KrimzonStriker]

I would say Lelouch succeeding would be a "bright spot".


A bittersweet ending is where even though there are tragedies, the ending itself is a "comedy".

Comedy? I tend to take hopeful hints as very serious and dramatic implications rather then something to laugh at, just as tragedy can provide deep impact and meaning so too can inspiration. Two sides of the same coin really ;)

[Dann of Thursday]

I suppose an ending where some end up with bad fates and others with good ones is the only way to go. Guess that means we know the fates of Charles, V.V., and C.C. if it wasn't already apparent.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Comedy? I tend to take hopeful hints as very serious and dramatic implications rather then something to laugh at, just as tragedy can provide deep impact and meaning so too can inspiration. Two sides of the same coin really ;)

I've used the term comedy to mean the opposite of tragedy in this case.

[KrimzonStriker]

I've used the term comedy to mean the opposite of tragedy in this case.

It just gives off a sense that it couldn't compete in terms of serious impact to tragedy, so I used inspirational instead, which I like a bit better now that I'm reading it :D

[Velden]

I think we can safely asume at least that lelouch and C.C care for each other as partners, not only in the sense of having a contract, but also the experiences they both share.(and no, i´m not saying it must be something romantic, can´t they just be friends?)

So C.C completely betraying Lelouch is unlikely, i would say that if she dies, she will die by saving him, be it from his father, V.V or even Marianne. (I said "completely" by accepting the possibility that she does betrays him at some point but in the end she returns to his side only to save him one last time)

Who knows...perhaps C.C volunteers to attack the sword of akasha, and in the end lelouch finds a wounded C.C that doesn´t regenerates her body, only to hear her say something like even though she knew she would die, she never doubted it...
or even for those who want a happy ending, she manages to survive but loses her inmortality...

[Dann of Thursday]

Losing her immortality would be rather interesting since that would be a different interpretation of killing a God, but I don't quite get the point of such a thing then. It seems like too simple a thing to happen for something that is hinted at being so powerful.

If she dies, protecting Lelouch would probably be the most likely way it would happen.

And can't Lelouch and Kallen just be friends?

[Kang Seung Jae]

And can't Lelouch and Kallen just be friends?

Quite possible, if Karen continues to seperate Lelouch from Zero.

[Tokkan]

Quite possible, if Karen continues to seperate Lelouch from Zero.

Seperating the idea (Zero) from the person (Lelouch) also increases her chances at having more than just friendship, though.

[Var]

Seperating the idea (Zero) from the person (Lelouch) also increases her chances at having more than just friendship, though.

There's a difference in separating the idea from the person and separating the person into two different people, what has been happening though slowly changing into the former rather than the latter.

[Stretch5920]

And can't Lelouch and Kallen just be friends?

The same can be said about every pairing. Romance is never needed.

[Dann of Thursday]

Seperating the idea (Zero) from the person (Lelouch) also increases her chances at having more than just friendship, though.

Which is why she probably already won since they are pulling a lot of common romantic scenes with her.

The same can be said about every pairing. Romance is never needed.

Well, Lelouch and C.C. aren't and never have been friends so that isn't an option there really. I suppose one can just say they know each other and work together.

[demon_god04]

At the very least though, Lelouch considers C.C an important partner.

[Dann of Thursday]

How good of a position is that though? It puts her at a lower level then a friend, which is at least someone who matters to Lelouch.

[KrimzonStriker]

Oh c'mon, they're friendly with each other, in an exasperating but playful manner :p

[demon_god04]

Well he does trust her, but their relationship needs to be explored abit more, since we really don't know how Lelouch sees her on a more personal level if at all.

[KrimzonStriker]

He... sympathizes with her I suppose, because she's endured what he has a thousand times over, while on C.C's end I almost wonder if she might admire him a little for his demonstration of support during those moments in Stage 11, 15, and 23. At the same time I can say that despite the fact that both of tend to push the line with how much they can get away with each other at times, the way they talk speaks of an interesting dynamic I would say something close to respect.

[Dann of Thursday]

She did say in one of the Sound Episodes that he surprised her despite being so weak. Meh, I doubt we'll go much more into whatever they have until near the end of the show which will just answer everything. There really is nothing left to explore with them.

[KrimzonStriker]

She did say in one of the Sound Episodes that he surprised her despite being so weak. Meh, I doubt we'll go much more into whatever they have until near the end of the show which will just answer everything. There really is nothing left to explore with them.

What do you mean, they have plenty to explore in that aspect I feel, because we aren't really all that sure where they stand with one another at times, they go back and forth so often its kind of hard to pin down :heh:

[demon_god04]

Especially recently in R2 since C.C seems to have taken an "I don't give a damn what he does or what happens to him as long as he doesn't get himself killed" stance. I kinda thought they were abit closer then that in R1.

[Dann of Thursday]

What do you mean, they have plenty to explore in that aspect I feel, because we aren't really all that sure where they stand with one another at times, they go back and forth so often its kind of hard to pin down :heh:

Except things now are even worse than they were in season 1 with those two. There is nothing left to explore except what her and Marianne's plans for Lelouch are and how he reacts. I'm expecting him to react badly and hate C.C. for it.

Especially recently in R2 since C.C seems to have taken an "I don't give a damn what he does or what happens to him as long as he doesn't get himself killed" stance. I kinda thought they were abit closer then that in R1.

Any progress made in season 1 seems to have been erased entirely by that year off. I wonder if Lelouch even still has memories of those moments anymore. They probably reduced her for a specific purpose or something.

[demon_god04]

Except things now are even worse than they were in season 1 with those two. There is nothing left to explore except what her and Marianne's plans for Lelouch are and how he reacts. I'm expecting him to react badly and hate C.C. for it.



Any progress made in season 1 seems to have been erased entirely by that year off. I wonder if Lelouch even still has memories of those moments anymore. They probably reduced her for a specific purpose or something.

Well I'd expect that just the fact that C.C can talk to Marianne would drive a wedge between them when Lelouch finds out. Lelouch has been desparately looking for clues as to what happened and C.C actually held such a big piece of the puzzle to herself and kept him in the dark.

Well Lulu did regain his memory, it just seems like he didn't really gave those moments much thought so far. Which admittedly does not bode well for C.C's chances either. :heh:

[Blue_Mercy]

Except things now are even worse than they were in season 1 with those two. There is nothing left to explore except what her and Marianne's plans for Lelouch are and how he reacts. I'm expecting him to react badly and hate C.C. for it.



Any progress made in season 1 seems to have been erased entirely by that year off. I wonder if Lelouch even still has memories of those moments anymore. They probably reduced her for a specific purpose or something.

You don't really have such little faith in the writers that you think they would minimize C.C.'s character to that extent do you? It's true they have been playing up C.C.'s cold side for a few episodes before 8 but I don't expect that to continue.

C.C.'s not a minor character and when you kiss someone on the lips it is never unemotional, and C.C. did not know what the Emperor's geass ability was, therefore the kiss was not a precaution.

[Dann of Thursday]

Well I'd expect that just the fact that C.C can talk to Marianne would drive a wedge between them when Lelouch finds out. Lelouch has been desparately looking for clues as to what happened and C.C actually held such a big piece of the puzzle to herself and kept him in the dark.

Well Lulu did regain his memory, it just seems like he didn't really gave those moments much thought so far. Which admittedly does not bode well for C.C's chances either. :heh:

Probably, though that isn't likely to come up until near the finale so I doubt they'll go into it very much. And the reason she didn't tell him and why Marianne didn't want him told is probably a sign the truth would shatter him. Their motives could be not the best and Lelouch won't agree with them.

I don't think he ever thought about them at all. C.C. did that while Lelouch seemed to forget all about them. I even wonder if C.C. didn't save those memories.

Her character was never appeared to have been designed in such a way anyway.

You don't really have such little faith in the writers that you think they would minimize C.C.'s character to that extent do you? It's true they have been playing up C.C.'s cold side for a few episodes before 8 but I don't expect that to continue.

C.C.'s not a minor character and when you kiss someone on the lips it is never unemotional, and C.C. did not know what the Emperor's geass ability was, therefore the kiss was not a precaution.

Yes, I do. And that cold side is a key part of her character which is something Taniguchi said when he talked about how he picked a VA for her. It'll probably continue till the end with tiny moments thrown in here and there.

She knew V.V. was involved and her comments suggest she knew everything about the Emperor and his Geass, which makes it a surprise to me that Lelouch was not angry at all. She took precautions. They said it was a non romantic kiss and episode 1 of R2 proved that.

[Pan chan]

Especially recently in R2 since C.C seems to have taken an "I don't give a damn what he does or what happens to him as long as he doesn't get himself killed" stance. I kinda thought they were abit closer then that in R1.

Well I think she actually gives a damn about that, she was smiling when he appeared again as zero. Okay, she said these things to Marianne but this smile is a clue that it's not entirely true, there is a discrepancy between her discours and her actions.

[KrimzonStriker]

Well I think she actually gives a damn about that, she was smiling when he appeared again as zero. Okay, she said these things to Marianne but this smile is a clue that it's not entirely true, there is a discrepancy between her discours and her actions.

I always though that was the case for the most part... she spends too much time trying to deny it when usually you would simply ignore accusations like that, which makes me think she isn't anywhere near as unemotional or as cold as some people have tried to depict her :rolleyes:

[Dann of Thursday]

Maybe she is just lying about not caring, but it's not like it really matters. I can't even see the point of that scene anymore. It just seemed like a waste of time unless they just wanted us to know that she still talks with Marianne.

[KrimzonStriker]

Maybe she is just lying about not caring, but it's not like it really matters. I can't even see the point of that scene anymore. It just seemed like a waste of time unless they just wanted us to know that she still talks with Marianne.

I thought it helped emphasize Lelouch's struggles at the time, while also showing that beneath that rather distant exterior she tries to portray she's much more emotionally vulnerable then you give her credit for, Stage 11 and 23 should also reinforce that image I feel <_<

[Pan chan]

I thought it helped emphasize Lelouch's struggles at the time, while also showing that beneath that rather distant exterior she tries to portray she's much more emotionally vulnerable then you give her credit for, Stage 11 and 23 should also reinforce that image I feel <_<

I agree, this scene and the smile at the end of the episode show us that she cares even thought she denies it.

[Dann of Thursday]

I thought it helped emphasize Lelouch's struggles at the time, while also showing that beneath that rather distant exterior she tries to portray she's much more emotionally vulnerable then you give her credit for, Stage 11 and 23 should also reinforce that image I feel <_<

And those stages were stand alone events that were never brought up again after they occured. She is emotionally vulnerable to some degree, but in truth the biggest concern to her is the contract.

I agree, this scene and the smile at the end of the episode show us that she cares even thought she denies it.

There wasn't much point to either scene really, though I suppose near the end she could appear to feel bad about what she and Marianne put him through.

[KrimzonStriker]

And those stages were stand alone events that were never brought up again after they occured. She is emotionally vulnerable to some degree, but in truth the biggest concern to her is the contract.


Technically, I argue that the content, her emotional vulnerability is present in all of them and emphasize that one aspect consistently and will likely occur later on as we tie in all of the issues concerning her.

There wasn't much point to either scene really, though I suppose near the end she could appear to feel bad about what she and Marianne put him through.

Oh c'mon, seeing such a divergence from C.C and the first hints about who she really was is quite important I feel, she is a main character and at some point that is going to be fleshed out eventually in order for the story as a whole to progress >_>

[Dann of Thursday]

Technically, I argue that the content, her emotional vulnerability is present in all of them and emphasize that one aspect consistently and will likely occur later on as we tie in all of the issues concerning her.

Oh c'mon, seeing such a divergence from C.C and the first hints about who she really was is quite important I feel, she is a main character and at some point that is going to be fleshed out eventually in order for the story as a whole to progress >_>

The aspect that always seemed looked at was how unemotional she was concerning everything except the contract. Perhaps the other aspects will come into play later, but that isn't certain at the moment.

Her past and how it relates to the Geass is important, but I don't know if that is who she really is anymore since that cold demeanor seems to dominate her now.

[Var]

I agree, this scene and the smile at the end of the episode show us that she cares even thought she denies it.

I'd say the contrast is to show that while she may have priorities she's at least glad she doesn't have to follow them strictly. In Lelouch returning, the rebellion continues and Lelouch keeps his reason for living. So while she may only need him to stay alive, she'd prefer him be 'alive' and not just some shell. I could say its a lesson from Mao, she's glad that he's not going down the same path where he loses everything and sinks to the bottom.

[Dann of Thursday]

I suppose that's a another way to look at it. She wants him to complete the contract of course, but I think she may want him to not end up like Mao again. Of course, there is no telling how Lelouch will react to the truth about Marianne. I'm not expecting him to take it well unless he actually gets to talk with her himself.

[Pan chan]

I'd say the contrast is to show that while she may have priorities she's at least glad she doesn't have to follow them strictly. In Lelouch returning, the rebellion continues and Lelouch keeps his reason for living. So while she may only need him to stay alive, she'd prefer him be 'alive' and not just some shell. I could say its a lesson from Mao, she's glad that he's not going down the same path where he loses everything and sinks to the bottom.


Yeah that's why I said :

Okay, she said these things to Marianne but this smile is a clue that it's not entirely true, there is a discrepancy between her discours and her actions.

Of course the contract is very important to her, I think it's top priority but that doesn't mean she only cares about that. Or are you trying to say she doesn't want another Mao ( because he has failed) but doesn't care about Lelouch well-being ? :confused:

[Dann of Thursday]

Well, she doesn't want another failure and Lelouch going crazy doesn't help her at all.

[Kaze]

Well, she doesn't want another failure and Lelouch going crazy doesn't help her at all.

This just made my day :heh:

[Dann of Thursday]

What? It's true that him going crazy is a bad thing for everyone.

[Kang Seung Jae]

a theory among 2ch people that's so crazy yet makes sense:

Sayako is from a ninja clan.

Reason: Check out her abilities in the "Sayako's Diary" from the third DVD

[Aquaman OS]

Actually I thought the theory was that Sayako also has the same superhumanness that Suzaku has. Nothing in series suggested this but somebody came up with it somewhere.

Still I think that Sayako's Diary thing was just a joke.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Actually I thought the theory was that Sayako also has the same superhumanness that Suzaku has. Nothing in series suggested this but somebody came up with it somewhere.

Still I think that Sayako's Diary thing was just a joke.

Never underestimate the side stories.

[RM-FAN]

I dont know if thinked this, but, you dont think that maybe after of defeat Britannia, Kaguya be named the governant of Japan? I see that the people love her and she can do good things for her nation and Lelouch take the throne of the Empire (With C.C. as her queen ^^)

[Kang Seung Jae]

I dont know if thinked this, but, you dont think that maybe after of defeat Britannia, Kaguya be named the governant of Japan? I see that the people love her and she can do good things for her nation and Lelouch take the throne of the Empire (With C.C. as her queen ^^)

The thought of Lelouch becoming Emperor is outlandish.

[Velden]

There isn´t a moment where kaguya is shown making any decision, up until now the only thing she has proven is that she trusts and admires Zero similar to S1 Kallen. Besides, that position already belongs to Nunnaly...

C.C as a queen i think is very unlikely, even Lelouch becoming emperor. I believe that what Lelouch wishes is to return with everyone to the days in the academy. I think that C.C becoming a new student in the academy is more likely to happen, if she lives in the end of course...

Now what i´m waiting for is to know if Nunnaly knows that everyone in the academy don´t remember her at all, if the people of japan still believe in Zero or they feel that he (and the rest of the exiled members) abandoned them and if sayoko is in fact a ninja or a shaolin monk...

[Kang Seung Jae]

We have confirmation of who the Tianzi is marrying:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/jin0014/Code%20Geass/th_cgepisode9.png (http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/jin0014/Code%20Geass/cgepisode9.png)

It's the 2nd Prince of Britannia, Schneizel El Britannia.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

We have confirmation of who the Tianzi is marrying:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/jin0014/Code%20Geass/th_cgepisode9.png (http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/jin0014/Code%20Geass/cgepisode9.png)

It's the 2nd Prince of Britannia, Schneizel El Britannia.

*read, read...* :twitch:
So the OotBK wil kidnapp.. Schneizel and Tianzi? :uhoh:
Ah well, Schneizel has a bunch of answers that Lelouch wants, so... :D

[Velden]

Thanks for the info, now we will finally see the confrontation between schneizel and lelouch.

[Kang Seung Jae]

*read, read...* :twitch:
So the OotBK wil kidnapp.. Schneizel and Tianzi? :uhoh:
Ah well, Schneizel has a bunch of answers that Lelouch wants, so... :D

Thanks for the info, now we will finally see the confrontation between schneizel and lelouch.

Hold your horses: From what I know, only the Tianzi gets kidnapped.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Hold your horses: From what I know, only the Tianzi gets kidnapped.

Supposedly yes, but doesn't Suzaku shout "You can't have his highness!" as well? Besides, him being kidnapped as well could very well explain why the britannians chooses to get involved in the amtter...

[Dynzel]

We have confirmation of who the Tianzi is marrying:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/jin0014/Code%20Geass/th_cgepisode9.png (http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/jin0014/Code%20Geass/cgepisode9.png)

It's the 2nd Prince of Britannia, Schneizel El Britannia.

I'm guessing the intended target was Tianzi but Schneizel got caught up in it, or something of the like? (Thus Suzaku's reaction "You can't have His Highness!" in the episode 10 preview.)

Either way, looking forward to the party crashing.

[Dann of Thursday]

Never underestimate the side stories.

Well, she was beating Tamaki. Which doesn't seem that hard to do. She did beat Toudou though....

We have confirmation of who the Tianzi is marrying:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/jin0014/Code%20Geass/th_cgepisode9.png (http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h201/jin0014/Code%20Geass/cgepisode9.png)

It's the 2nd Prince of Britannia, Schneizel El Britannia.

I thought it would be him. It being Odysseus didn't make much sense to me since we knew Schneizal would be there.

But she looks so sad and pouty in the preview. They are going to pay for doing that.

[Pan chan]

Supposedly yes, but doesn't Suzaku shout "You can't have his highness!" as well? Besides, him being kidnapped as well could very well explain why the britannians chooses to get involved in the amtter...

Yeah he shouts "Denka" but I tought he was talking about Tianzi.

So the futur groom is Schneizel ? What a pity, I think he' s better than this >.<, this kind of role suit better Odysseus :uhoh:.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Yeah he shouts "Denka" but I tought he was talking about Tianzi.

Maybe, maybe not. We'll see. The problem with Denka is that it doesn't specifically say which gender the one spoken about is... Still, it's more logical for Britannia to get involved if Schneizel is kidnapped as well. But we'll see.

[fruitcage]

We have confirmation of who the Tianzi is marrying:

IMG

It's the 2nd Prince of Britannia, Schneizel El Britannia.

Yes, yes very interesting. Thanks for that confirmed tidbit!

[SoldierOfDarkness]

But she looks so sad and pouty in the preview. They are going to pay for doing that.

Oye I thought Schenizeil was better than that.

[Dann of Thursday]

I doubt he cares if she is sad. You'd have to have a heart of stone not to be affected by that face. Of course, C.C., Lelouch, and Schneizal could probably do it.

I'm actually looking forward to any interaction Tianzi has with the Order members.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

I doubt he cares if she is sad. You'd have to have a heart of stone not to be affected by that face. Of course, C.C., Lelouch, and Schneizal could probably do it.

Oh please that's how youngsters get what they want. By making sad puppy faces.

What I am curious though is how Schenzeil greets her.

But seriously man, first person your marrying and it's a f****** 14 year old?

[Kang Seung Jae]

Oh please that's how youngsters get what they want. By making sad puppy faces.

What I am curious though is how Schenzeil greets her.

But seriously man, first person your marrying and it's a f****** 14 year old?

Is there a problem with that?

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Is there a problem with that?

Yeah, think about the honeymoon.:heh:

[Dann of Thursday]

He's just acting like his father. It's only for the alliance anyway. Most of Charles' marriages were simply political ones he never had any contact with.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

feh then what's the big deal then? He ties the knot with her and then runs off to continue his work, leaving her behind in the city like it never even happened in the first place.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Yeah, think about the honeymoon.:heh:

I think there would have been no honeymoon if the marriage continued.

[KrimzonStriker]

I doubt he cares if she is sad. You'd have to have a heart of stone not to be affected by that face. Of course, C.C., Lelouch, and Schneizal could probably do it.

I'm actually looking forward to any interaction Tianzi has with the Order members.

Hey, hey, hey, Lelouch is not the shallow, he does have his principals when he can and you can see that he was pretty disgusted with the prospect even if he might also have been worried about the Order's own future since they were taking refuge in the Chinese Federation. But still, he's a better person now, with scrupulous dignity so I'm sure he'd still feel the vested interest... right? :heh:

[Dann of Thursday]

feh then what's the big deal then? He ties the knot with her and then runs off to continue his work, leaving her behind in the city like it never even happened in the first place.

That's what I would assume it will be like. I think it's just the point that it would be official and China would be an ally of Britannia.

Hey, hey, hey, Lelouch is not the shallow, he does have his principals when he can and you can see that he was pretty disgusted with the prospect even if he might also have been worried about the Order's own future since they were taking refuge in the Chinese Federation. But still, he's a better person now, with scrupulous dignity so I'm sure he'd still feel the vested interest... right? :heh:

I suppose he would be affected somewhat. Maybe that big brother instinct would kick in or something. That still leaves C.C. and Schneizal though. I don't think either of them would be affected all that much, though C.C. reacting would be funny.

[KrimzonStriker]

I suppose he would be affected somewhat. Maybe that big brother instinct would kick in or something. That still leaves C.C. and Schneizal though. I don't think either of them would be affected all that much, though C.C. reacting would be funny.

C.C has probably seen too many things that would make most people hardcore cynics until the day they die, which isn't an option for her really, and why I could see how she reacted so calmly to Kaguya and her line about the 'desires of grown men' while everyone else was just taken back. :p

[Dann of Thursday]

Yeah, she was impressed by that comment. She also seemed to not care as always.

[KrimzonStriker]

Yeah, she was impressed by that comment. She also seemed to not care as always.

Like I said, after what she's been through it really isn't that surprising that she got used to witnessing such prospects in the past. Humanity has given plenty of worst examples in its history... <_<

[Dann of Thursday]

I suppose, though all that would probably make her rather unemotional and uncaring about pretty much everything. I suppose everything bores her at this point.

[KrimzonStriker]

I suppose, though all that would probably make her rather unemotional and uncaring about pretty much everything. I suppose everything bores her at this point.

Well, at the same time it doesn't mean that even if they make her numb, they can't erase those emotions, you just need some digging is all. It happened before right? ;)

[Dann of Thursday]

It would take a whole lot to get her out of the state she is now and I seriously doubt we'll ever see anything like it in the show as long as that contract is around.

[KrimzonStriker]

It would take a whole lot to get her out of the state she is now and I seriously doubt we'll ever see anything like it in the show as long as that contract is around.

Then what was the point of showing she could do it in the first place? That's like you and your argument about how all this recent development with Kallen would be wasted and stuff if she and Lelouch got together. I can say the same for C.C and the development of her character as well, and I'm finding it unlikely we won't be exploring more of this as the story progresses >_>

[Dann of Thursday]

But we didn't see she could do it really. We saw a few instances that she is still capable of some human emotion, but that is completely dominated by that colder side of her. And they'll only explore more on C.C. during the Geass plotline, which can't come till the last part of the show since it is related to the ending and mysteries.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Then what was the point of showing she could do it in the first place? That's like you and your argument about how all this recent development with Kallen would be wasted and stuff if she and Lelouch got together. I can say the same for C.C and the development of her character as well, and I'm finding it unlikely we won't be exploring more of this as the story progresses >_>

Please don't add oil to the fire by risking to turn it all into another "Kallen > C.C. in this season!" debate, please...:upset:

[KrimzonStriker]

But we didn't see she could do it really. We saw a few instances that she is still capable of some human emotion, but that is completely dominated by that colder side of her. And they'll only explore more on C.C. during the Geass plotline, which can't come till the last part of the show since it is related to the ending and mysteries.

That we get development is the important thing, I feel you're putting too much stock in what is probably the portrayal the writers want to mislead you about her, and that I think you should start cutting her more slack and give her more credit in your future analysis. Even if she doesn't end up with Lelouch she can still be a decent character and person :rolleyes:

Please don't add oil to the fire by risking to turn it all into another "Kallen > C.C. in this season!" debate, please...:upset:

I was just pointing out some unfair bias on C.C's character is all, not trying to turn this into another bon-fire of persecution like C.C went through during the witch-hunts. And I notice you put 'Kallen>C.C" in that sentence of yours dark ;)

[Dann of Thursday]

I know that. I'd rather they not just go into her development all at the end of the show.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

I was just pointing out some unfair bias on C.C's character is all, not trying to turn this into another bon-fire of persecution like C.C went through during the witch-hunts. And I notice you put 'Kallen>C.C" in that sentence of yours dark ;)

Yes, but it might as well be the reverse, because that's what the whole debate is all about either way as I see it (Kallen > C.C. or C.C. > Kallen)... :upset:.

[Dann of Thursday]

Well, currently it's Kallen. That probably only has a chance of changing in the final few episodes.

[Var]

Please don't add oil to the fire by risking to turn it all into another "Kallen > C.C. in this season!" debate, please...:upset:

You realise it to be impossible, correct? Everyone is as stubborn as a mule and this 'discussion' won't end until Episode 25 (I'd hope). Every episode will spark or further the discussion between Kallen and C.C. and the ever so greater than, less than comparisons.

[Koshimizu]

It feels so good to see the novel gets another good slap in the face. :D
The novel flopped big time in the previous book by hinting in the Mexican standoff, Suzaku shot Lelouch but Lelouch didn't. In the most recent book it spend quite a few lines to cover up this mistake, saying "oh I believed you blah blah blah" and all that yaoi junk.
Now this. :heh:
Too bad it's Nunnally that told us it's Odyssus. I bet in next book she'll blame the mistake on Nunnally, saying she's misinformed and such.

But seriously man, first person your marrying and it's a f****** 14 year old?Tianzi is only 12, BTW.
That's how political marriage is. Nunnally was 6 when Genbu decided to marry her.

Maybe, maybe not. We'll see. The problem with Denka is that it doesn't specifically say which gender the one spoken about is... Still, it's more logical for Britannia to get involved if Schneizel is kidnapped as well. But we'll see.I already replied to that in this very topic. = =
"Denka" is not Tianzi unless Suzaku is very stupid and ill-mannered. "Denka" is not gender specific. However, it is for addressing the royals except for the emperor/king or empress/queen. It's also for important people like regent and shogun. In short, it's for addressing those high above, but not the highest one. ;)
Translating it to "His Highness" is good enough in this case. Because the only non-emperor/non-empress royal we know who's going to China is a prince. Since there's no princess in sight, the chance for it to be "Her Highness" is slim.
Anyway, Suzaku is not talking about Tianzi. It's not a proper way to address her. If he is, Schenizel should have taught him some manners before bringing him to an official occasion like this. ;p

[nutype]

After reading nightmare of nunnaly I have a much better understanding of the CG plot. There are many parrallels and here is what I've learned anyway. You can choose to believe it or dismiss it and keep watching the show.



firstly C.C is actually Brittain's version of Jeanne of arc. Back in the day Jeanne of Arc was leading a war against Brittain and she actually had supernatural powers similar to a geass user. She is called a witch. England fights back by acquiring their own "Goddess" who happens to be C.C. After defeating Jeanne of Arc, C.C. is cursed by Jeanne of Arc. She is eventually executed by her own people. C.C's curse is that she has eternal life and has to live through the agony of watching her loved ones die. Shortly after her 'death' she is called witch of brittainia.

Which leads us to the mystery of Geass. How is it possible that people like Lelouche and rolo can use these supernatural powers? Though there isn't a good explanation given geass users have a connection to something called Eden-Vital. Eden-Vital is this supernatural source (you can call it God if you want) that grants a special power to geass users to bend the physical laws of the universe. Geass users like Lelouche and rolo in particular have the supernatural power granted by Eden-Vital to be able to see the synapse circuit of brains and alter them to their wishes. This is the practical explanation of how geass users are able to mess with the circuitry of brains.

Who exactly is CC? VV? Suzaku's connection?

-she is special in that she is able to give contracts to normal people. In the manga it is explained that her cells give a connection to the Eden-Vital. It could be that kissing lelouche passes her cells onto him and grants him access to Eden-Vital. How she gains access to Eden-Vital is not explained either. It is shown in the manga that CC knows Marianne personally and based on this one may assume CC grants her access to Eden-Vital too?

-VV's existance is not in the manga either. Not much can be said about him at this point.

-Suzaku is referred as the "wired". Those that have a connection with Eden-Vital with making a contract. He is compared to Jeanne of Arc though how he has come to be a "wired' is not explained.

[Ice_Bullet]

After reading nightmare of nunnaly I have a much better understanding of the CG plot. There are many parrallels and here is what I've learned anyway. You can choose to believe it or dismiss it and keep watching the show.



firstly C.C is actually Brittain's version of Jeanne of arc. Back in the day Jeanne of Arc was leading a war against Brittain and she actually had supernatural powers similar to a geass user. She is called a witch. England fights back by acquiring their own "Goddess" who happens to be C.C. After defeating Jeanne of Arc, C.C. is cursed by Jeanne of Arc. She is eventually executed by her own people. C.C's curse is that she has eternal life and has to live through the agony of watching her loved ones die. Shortly after her 'death' she is called witch of brittainia.

Which leads us to the mystery of Geass. How is it possible that people like Lelouche and rolo can use these supernatural powers? Though there isn't a good explanation given geass users have a connection to something called Eden-Vital. Eden-Vital is this supernatural source (you can call it God if you want) that grants a special power to geass users to bend the physical laws of the universe. Geass users like Lelouche and rolo in particular have the supernatural power granted by Eden-Vital to be able to see the synapse circuit of brains and alter them to their wishes. This is the practical explanation of how geass users are able to mess with the circuitry of brains.

Who exactly is CC? VV? Suzaku's connection?

-she is special in that she is able to give contracts to normal people. In the manga it is explained that her cells give a connection to the Eden-Vital. It could be that kissing lelouche passes her cells onto him and grants him access to Eden-Vital. How she gains access to Eden-Vital is not explained either. It is shown in the manga that CC knows Marianne personally and based on this one may assume CC grants her access to Eden-Vital too?

-VV's existance is not in the manga either. Not much can be said about him at this point.

-Suzaku is referred as the "wired". Those that have a connection with Eden-Vital with making a contract. He is compared to Jeanne of Arc though how he has come to be a "wired' is not explained.





nightmare of nunnally has NOTHING to do with code geass. its a seperate story. so what u have learnt doesn't link up with the current code geass. =\ sorry to say this.

[Kang Seung Jae]

After reading nightmare of nunnaly I have a much better understanding of the CG plot. There are many parrallels and here is what I've learned anyway. You can choose to believe it or dismiss it and keep watching the show.



firstly C.C is actually Brittain's version of Jeanne of arc. Back in the day Jeanne of Arc was leading a war against Brittain and she actually had supernatural powers similar to a geass user. She is called a witch. England fights back by acquiring their own "Goddess" who happens to be C.C. After defeating Jeanne of Arc, C.C. is cursed by Jeanne of Arc. She is eventually executed by her own people. C.C's curse is that she has eternal life and has to live through the agony of watching her loved ones die. Shortly after her 'death' she is called witch of brittainia.

Which leads us to the mystery of Geass. How is it possible that people like Lelouche and rolo can use these supernatural powers? Though there isn't a good explanation given geass users have a connection to something called Eden-Vital. Eden-Vital is this supernatural source (you can call it God if you want) that grants a special power to geass users to bend the physical laws of the universe. Geass users like Lelouche and rolo in particular have the supernatural power granted by Eden-Vital to be able to see the synapse circuit of brains and alter them to their wishes. This is the practical explanation of how geass users are able to mess with the circuitry of brains.

Who exactly is CC? VV? Suzaku's connection?

-she is special in that she is able to give contracts to normal people. In the manga it is explained that her cells give a connection to the Eden-Vital. It could be that kissing lelouche passes her cells onto him and grants him access to Eden-Vital. How she gains access to Eden-Vital is not explained either. It is shown in the manga that CC knows Marianne personally and based on this one may assume CC grants her access to Eden-Vital too?

-VV's existance is not in the manga either. Not much can be said about him at this point.

-Suzaku is referred as the "wired". Those that have a connection with Eden-Vital with making a contract. He is compared to Jeanne of Arc though how he has come to be a "wired' is not explained.





NoN is at best an alternative source of information that MAY have something to do with the main story. It shouldn't be taken too seriously.

[nutype]

nightmare of nunnally has NOTHING to do with code geass. its a seperate story. so what u have learnt doesn't link up with the current code geass. =\ sorry to say this.

id have to disagee the main story has commited themselves to some of the things in NoN. I really doubt they will give an alternative explanation to geass other than the Eden Vital. I guess time will tell.

I'm not saying I absolutely know but the facts given in NoN are great practical explanations for geass powers.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

id have to disagee the main story has commited themselves to some of the things in NoN. I really doubt they will give an alternative explanation to geass other than the Eden Vital. I guess time will tell.

I'm not saying I absolutely know but the facts given in NoN are great practical explanations for geass powers.

This is Sunrise. They have been making alternate-universe plotlines in non-anime media for years.

Alternative explanations of anything and everything had been done. Try the alternative My-Hume manga universe, for example.

[Narona]

Tianzi is only 12, BTW.


I already replied to that in this very topic. = =
"Denka" is not Tianzi unless Suzaku is very stupid and ill-mannered.
And Schneizel is 30 :heh:


So thet kidnapped Schneizel??? (and Tian Zi) :heh: That would be great.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

You realise it to be impossible, correct? Everyone is as stubborn as a mule and this 'discussion' won't end until Episode 25 (I'd hope). Every episode will spark or further the discussion between Kallen and C.C. and the ever so greater than, less than comparisons.

I know, but one should at least try to put out the fire.. :heh:

I already replied to that in this very topic. = =
"Denka" is not Tianzi unless Suzaku is very stupid and ill-mannered.

I see. So then we should see both Schneizel and Tian Zi kidnapped... :heh:
A very interesting development indeed :D

[Kristen]

I just thought of something... If Lelouche doesn't have a problem with the power of his Geass again, C.C.'s comment of "Now, if it gets stronger..." which was interupted would be completely pointless. It's also bad storywriting to cover up a problem with a quick fix like that.

Meaning, the contact lens is going to break down sometime this season, and most likely at a very misopportune time.
Also, I wonder if C.C.'s going to get further and further frustrated with Lelouche. I mean, she's been sort of ignored the entire season, and I personally believe that Lelouche this season has been getting more and more arrogant. Maybe she's going to tell him that her wish is that he kills himself... That'd be a plot twist to end all plot twists. XD

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

I just thought of something... If Lelouche doesn't have a problem with the power of his Geass again, C.C.'s comment of "Now, if it gets stronger..." which was interupted would be completely pointless. It's also bad storywriting to cover up a problem with a quick fix like that.
Meaning, the contact lens is going to break down sometime this season, and most likely at a very misopportune time.

Maybe so. Through I really hope we don't get anything like a second Euphie-event.. >_<

Also, I wonder if C.C.'s going to get further and further frustrated with Lelouche. I mean, she's been sort of ignored the entire season, and I personally believe that Lelouche this season has been getting more and more arrogant. Maybe she's going to tell him that her wish is that he kills himself... That'd be a plot twist to end all plot twists. XD

I don't know about arrogant.. Anyway, the problem is probably that there hasn't been much of a need for her thus far - add to this the fact that for the last few episodes, she couldn't even move about much ouside because that the secret service is on lookout for her, so... and really, there isn't much she can do right now even, expect for doing soem jobs for the OotBK - she can't even assist Lelouch as the second pilot of the Gawain, because there's no Gawain around these days <_<.

[Renegade334]

Also, I wonder if C.C.'s going to get further and further frustrated with Lelouche. I mean, she's been sort of ignored the entire season, and I personally believe that Lelouche this season has been getting more and more arrogant. Maybe she's going to tell him that her wish is that he kills himself... That'd be a plot twist to end all plot twists. XDThe problem is that, IMHO, C.C. has reached a point where there is little left to her character development. She was quite well fleshed-out in the first season - including her motives, her choices, her commitments and allegiances, her past. Anything short of her mysterious acquaintances/interlocutors (Marianne), her wish and her real name has been addressed.

I don't expect much evolution from her as she's already reached - or so I believe - the final stage of her evolution as a mysterious character. Unless she betrays Lelouch at the very end due to new plot turns, she'll stay the way she is and move in with the flow, helping Lelouch from the shadows or preventing him from getting killed. That is, if we don't get a 'flashback' arc involving C.C. in the past or something like that. We already know everything we need...for now. The aforementioned mysteries (her name, wish, etc) should, I believe, only return to the fore (or not) at the finale or if more Geass users appear.

Kallen, on the other hand, is a potential study for the second season as now she is aware of Zero's identity and evidently she sometimes has trouble dealing with the realization that her leader was in fact someone she didn't like much. However, considering the small scene at the construction sight, I believe that issue has been put at rest for the time being with an understanding reigning betwee the two. There's more potential in seeing her evolution now that C.C.'s.

All in all, unless things get a more romantic turn between Kallen and Lelouch, I also expect the focus to sort of slowly shy away from those two, as more pressing issues come about.

[Silver Soul]

I just thought of something... If Lelouche doesn't have a problem with the power of his Geass again, C.C.'s comment of "Now, if it gets stronger..." which was interupted would be completely pointless. It's also bad storywriting to cover up a problem with a quick fix like that.

Meaning, the contact lens is going to break down sometime this season, and most likely at a very misopportune time.
Also, I wonder if C.C.'s going to get further and further frustrated with Lelouche. I mean, she's been sort of ignored the entire season, and I personally believe that Lelouche this season has been getting more and more arrogant. Maybe she's going to tell him that her wish is that he kills himself... That'd be a plot twist to end all plot twists. XD

I believe the the plot twist to end all plot twist in this series would be that it was actually the Japanese who planned and assasinated Marianne Vi Britannia and crippled Nunnally which lead to Britannia taking over Japan as a result to avenge her death but no one disclosed any information to Lelouch so his only assumption that since She was a commoner it was a set up by the Britannian family, but just for the mere fact that he's been helping the people who killed his mother will without a doubt put him over the edge of reason.

[zgmf-x19a]

Like Renegade334 mentionned above we know much about C.C except her past and her real name I think it would be nice to know those elements without having a special arc dedicated to her seing as this serie is centered around Lelouch and this season should be the last I'd prefer a well developed story around Lelouch than loosing time making everything about C.C known I think an episode should be enough to know all there is about her.
I'm also fine with having her background and real name revelead to us through the season but briefly not wasting the whole season to get a rushed up ending at the end of this season.
I'm more interested in Kallen's background and it would be nice if there was a romantic relationship between Lelouch and Kallen that would make the show more interesting I think all this time he seemed to center his world around Nunnally he should move on and find his own happiness and care for someone else.
I know that Lelouch himself said his fight was no longer for Nunnally's sake but this is just from a moral point of view I'd like more developments of Lelouch's feelings and a romantic relationship would be perfect :p

[Dann of Thursday]

I honestly don't see what is really left to do with Kallen since she's been pretty much wrapped up as a character as well. They could go a bit into her brother and such, but even that's not too much more. I'm probably wrong though and there is something hugely important and mysterious about Kallen that has yet to be revealed because it would be incredibly important to the plot.

And I guess C.C. is pretty much finished as a character and can only contribute to the plot by being used as a plot device and dying. There isn't one thing left to address with her since she was so incredibly well developed in season 1.

I also don't see why having a relationship only with her would suddenly make the show more interesting.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

I honestly don't see what is really left to do with Kallen since she's been pretty much wrapped up as a character as well. They could go a bit into her brother and such, but even that's not too much more. I'm probably wrong though and there is something hugely important and mysterious about Kallen that has yet to be revealed because it would be incredibly important to the plot.

And I guess C.C. is pretty much finished as a character and can only contribute to the plot by being used as a plot device and dying. There isn't one thing left to address with her since she was so incredibly well developed in season 1.

Well, there's a few things left to be adressed with both of'em - but we got as pretty clear idea of what they're like, what their characters are all about, what they'll do from now on, how they'll develop and what'll beocme of'em, I expect. Both do have some stuffs left to be developed/revealed about'em though...

I also don't see why having a relationship only with her would suddenly make the show more interesting.

Who, C.C. or Kallen?

I believe the the plot twist to end all plot twist in this series would be that it was actually the Japanese who planned and assasinated Marianne Vi Britannia and crippled Nunnally which lead to Britannia taking over Japan as a result to avenge her death but no one disclosed any information to Lelouch so his only assumption that since She was a commoner it was a set up by the Britannian family, but just for the mere fact that he's been helping the people who killed his mother will without a doubt put him over the edge of reason.

Possibly, but I don't know.. They may well have had some hand in it, but we mustn't forget that Marianne also seems to have known as matter of fact that there would be an attacck on that day. And besides, if they took over Britannia as a matter of revenge, why the hell would the emperor send Lelouch & Nunnaly there in the first place? <_<.

[Silver Soul]

I honestly don't see what is really left to do with Kallen since she's been pretty much wrapped up as a character as well. They could go a bit into her brother and such, but even that's not too much more. I'm probably wrong though and there is something hugely important and mysterious about Kallen that has yet to be revealed because it would be incredibly important to the plot.

And I guess C.C. is pretty much finished as a character and can only contribute to the plot by being used as a plot device and dying. There isn't one thing left to address with her since she was so incredibly well developed in season 1.

I also don't see why having a relationship only with her would suddenly make the show more interesting.

So what you're basically saying is that the show is over before it even got to its climax, once again its far too early to be close off any character developments due to the fact that they've already been delt with before in the first season and Kallen is a perfect example of that considering what we've seen of her so far was only implied of before, why do you think LelouchXKallen was put in to light so many times this season the last season and its really a matter of the writers and the producers pulling stuff out of their ass just to make her seem more interesting and its actually working, but your right about C.C., she seem to have took the backseat in favor of all The LelouchXKallen scenes we've been getting and for no with the impending battle in China and then going back to school with the degrudingly named "Love Attack" episode it seems she won't get any screentime unless something happens to her i.e. Britainnian finally getting their hands on her and either Lelouch saves her or Suzaku helps her escape in return for some answers or we get some sort of gaiden/flashbak arc to fill in all the banks before the season's end, but for now we just have to wait and see.

[KrimzonStriker]

id have to disagee the main story has commited themselves to some of the things in NoN. I really doubt they will give an alternative explanation to geass other than the Eden Vital. I guess time will tell.

I'm not saying I absolutely know but the facts given in NoN are great practical explanations for geass powers.

More like NoN has committed itself to the things in Code Geass, and they can get away with that since they are using an alternative version to the main plot line, at the same time I believe it was recently commented on by the CG staff that both the novels and the mangas are not sanctioned as canon material for the Code Geass Universe, except maybe that sneaker novel about Suzaku's first days as a KoR.... <_<

They can be as great as you say they are but at the same time they can be totally unrelated to the actual truth of the matter in the anime... doesn't surprise me that you could come up with another conclusion that is totally missing the mark nit... >_>

The problem is that, IMHO, C.C. has reached a point where there is little left to her character development. She was quite well fleshed-out in the first season - including her motives, her choices, her commitments and allegiances, her past. Anything short of her mysterious acquaintances/interlocutors (Marianne), her wish and her real name has been addressed.

I don't expect much evolution from her as she's already reached - or so I believe - the final stage of her evolution as a mysterious character. Unless she betrays Lelouch at the very end due to new plot turns, she'll stay the way she is and move in with the flow, helping Lelouch from the shadows or preventing him from getting killed. That is, if we don't get a 'flashback' arc involving C.C. in the past or something like that. We already know everything we need...for now. The aforementioned mysteries (her name, wish, etc) should, I believe, only return to the fore (or not) at the finale or if more Geass users appear.

Kallen, on the other hand, is a potential study for the second season as now she is aware of Zero's identity and evidently she sometimes has trouble dealing with the realization that her leader was in fact someone she didn't like much. However, considering the small scene at the construction sight, I believe that issue has been put at rest for the time being with an understanding reigning betwee the two. There's more potential in seeing her evolution now that C.C.'s.

All in all, unless things get a more romantic turn between Kallen and Lelouch, I also expect the focus to sort of slowly shy away from those two, as more pressing issues come about.

How so? To the point where we are still unsure about all of them? All we've known up to now is that she has motives, a name, a wish, and mysterious acquaintances, but with that even her allegiances are thrown into question because we don't know what they are or what they mean once you get right down to it.

You do realize the key word in that second paragraph right Renegade? Mysterious character... sure we've been able to establish the criteria for that type of figure but at the same time such a character is basically made to have the least kind of development out of any of them. And what do you mean we know everything we need too about her past? We've only seen the faintest of hints of what she's been through, not what or who she is, what her origins are basically. And there is of course more then just the basic plot points to her story that needs to be answered, there is also that vulnerable side that she's displayed to have underneath that cold apathy she puts up in front of everyone. Just what kind of person is C.C in a sense? We have no real idea because she surrounds herself in mystery and an uninterested front, and I believe that has the grounds for much more significant development in the future. I mean, what can't you develop in terms of character for someone set up as a mysterious character :rolleyes:

I'll concede that the major plot development will provide the main focus for the story, but I tend to disagree completely with this assessment that C.C has reached the final stages of her development, if anything I think we've only seen the tip of the Iceberg with her given how little we still know or are sure of concerning her character <_<

[zgmf-x19a]

Who, C.C. or Kallen?

Possibly, but I don't know.. They may well have had some hand in it, but we mustn't forget that Marianne also seems to have known as matter of fact that there would be an attacck on that day. And besides, if they took over Britannia as a matter of revenge, why the hell would the emperor send Lelouch & Nunnaly there in the first place? <_<.

You know how much Dann is in favor of a Lelouch X C.C pairing that's why he scorns other pairings lol
It's pointless for him to have a Lelouch X Kallen pairing because he doesn't want or like it
It's true that Marianne may have known about the attack but don't forget that the Emperor's Geass could have had a hand in it either altering Cornelia's memories or Marianne's or even both.
The Emperor sent them to Japan to be used as diplomatic tools like a guarantee that Britannia won't attack Japan because of their presence which was just plain nonsense. Japan has a strategic importance due to its sakuradite besides Japan was playing on every front making alliances with the Chinese Federation and also Britannia.
If they were loyal to Britannia they might have been allowed to keep their freedom but then there wouldn't be a Code Geass as we know

[Dann of Thursday]

Well, there's a few things left to be adressed with both of'em - but we got as pretty clear idea of what they're like, what their characters are all about, what they'll do from now on, how they'll develop and what'll beocme of'em, I expect. Both do have some stuffs left to be developed/revealed about'em though...

Who, C.C. or Kallen?

Well, of course we know all that since both are very predictable. C.C. only cares about her contract and Kallen is devoted to the Order and Lelouch.

Either I guess. It doesn't matter.

So what you're basically saying is that the show is over before it even got to its climax, once again its far too early to be close off any character developments due to the fact that they've already been delt with before in the first season and Kallen is a perfect example of that considering what we've seen of her so far was only implied of before, why do you think LelouchXKallen was put in to light so many times this season the last season and its really a matter of the writers and the producers pulling stuff out of their ass just to make her seem more interesting and its actually working, but your right about C.C., she seem to have took the backseat in favor of all The LelouchXKallen scenes we've been getting and for no with the impending battle in China and then going back to school with the degrudingly named "Love Attack" episode it seems she won't get any screentime unless something happens to her i.e. Britainnian finally getting their hands on her and either Lelouch saves her or Suzaku helps her escape in return for some answers or we get some sort of gaiden/flashbak arc to fill in all the banks before the season's end, but for now we just have to wait and see.

She's finished as a character until the last arc of the show which would probably start around 19 or 20. They are focusing on China now (though they are still finding time for Kallen since she is important) and then we are back in Ashford again. She has nothing left to do and nothing left to contribute to anything in this plot except in the last arc of the show. They might as well just reveal it now and kill her off.

[Silver Soul]

More like NoN has committed itself to the things in Code Geass, and they can get away with that since they are using an alternative version to the main plot line, at the same time I believe it was recently commented on by the CG staff that both the novels and the mangas are not sanctioned as canon material for the Code Geass Universe, except maybe that sneaker novel about Suzaku's first days as a KoR.... <_<

They can be as great as you say they are but at the same time they can be totally unrelated to the actual truth of the matter in the anime... doesn't surprise me that you could come up with another conclusion that is totally missing the mark nit... >_>

Look in the past of sunrise shows being adapted into manga or novel incarnations and you'll see that the ideas of NoN will never be put in consideration to be animated. A perfect example is Scryed manga which is complete s**t compared to the anime you can tell that the author just did't care about being as close as possibly to the actual anime itself but to go all out insane with the art and story to the point where its just plan goofy. Not to mention the My-Hime and My-Otome manga incarnations, but given its credit NoN would of essentially have made a good concept for the show but you see this is Lelouch of the Rebellion and it works just find.

[Dann of Thursday]

You know how much Dann is in favor of a Lelouch X C.C pairing that's why he scorns other pairings lol
It's pointless for him to have a Lelouch X Kallen pairing because he doesn't want or like it
It's true that Marianne may have known about the attack but don't forget that the Emperor's Geass could have had a hand in it either altering Cornelia's memories or Marianne's or even both.
The Emperor sent them to Japan to be used as diplomatic tools like a guarantee that Britannia won't attack Japan because of their presence which was just plain nonsense. Japan has a strategic importance due to its sakuradite besides Japan was playing on every front making alliances with the Chinese Federation and also Britannia.
If they were loyal to Britannia they might have been allowed to keep their freedom but then there wouldn't be a Code Geass as we know

Scorn? No, the other's are just way more likely at this point.

The Emperor's Geass could have been involved somehow, but I wouldn't be surprised if everyone's memories have been tampered with in some way. Maybe only Nunnally knows the terrible truth and will reveal it at some point to the shock of everyone.

I'm pretty much expecting Marianne to have planned the whole thing out with C.C. in order to manipulate Lelouch. I doubt she cared much about them at all anymore and any affection may very well have just been her wanting to keep them safe so they could be of use to her.

[KrimzonStriker]

Look in the past of sunrise shows being adapted into manga or novel incarnations and you'll see that the ideas of NoN will never be put in consideration to be animated. A perfect example is Scryed manga which is complete s**t compared to the anime you can tell that the author just did't care about being as close as possibly to the actual anime itself but to go all out insane with the art and story to the point where its just plan goofy. Not to mention the My-Hime and My-Otome manga incarnations, but given its credit NoN would of essentially have made a good concept for the show but you see this is Lelouch of the Rebellion and it works just find.

You'll also have to consider that well... they made the anime before any of the mangas came out, basically writing the story themselves without anything to refer from, so you can't even make that comparison since the subject has basically moved a star league away now from having any grounds concerning works that were taken from it rather then used for it, and aren't even sanctioned as official to boot! :rolleyes:

[Dann of Thursday]

Certain aspects of the NoN manga are interesting, but I don't think they are all that related to the plot. This show would be a lot crazier if much of that was canon.

To be completely honest I still don't know from what we've seen from her, it can be implied that she may of had other contracts before Lelouch and Mao and Lelouch is the closests to actually fulfilling the contract also from various screens we can't necessary interpret whats going on in her mind:http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/CODE%20GEASS/CODE%20GEASS%20R2%20-%2005%20-%20Large%2003.jpg meaning that her contract means more to her than anything else at this point.

The notes with this were that she would grab Lelouch and they would run if things went bad with the Order. She's happy because they don't have to I guess. It would be inconvenient to her to have to start all over.

[Ice_Bullet]

although NoN has some connection to the plot, it is an entirely different story. different conclusions. like, suzaku's dad wasn't killed by him. but by some other guy.

The Emperor's Geass could have been involved somehow, but I wouldn't be surprised if everyone's memories have been tampered with in some way. Maybe only Nunnally knows the terrible truth and will reveal it at some point to the shock of everyone.

now that.. would be... very.. weird. under what circumstances would she reveal it?

I'm pretty much expecting Marianne to have planned the whole thing out with C.C. in order to manipulate Lelouch. I doubt she cared much about them at all anymore and any affection may very well have just been her wanting to keep them safe so they could be of use to her.

thats pretty harsh don't you think? she is after all lelouch's mom. maybe she has some other motive.. but i don't shes that heartless.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

now that.. would be... very.. weird. under what circumstances would she reveal it?

Upon learning that Lelouch is Zero and confronting him about it, perhaps?

thats pretty harsh don't you think? she is after all lelouch's mom. maybe she has some other motive.. but i don't shes that heartless.

Oh, I don't know; just because you're a parent doesn't mean that you're caring. Look at Charles, for example... <_<.

[demon_god04]

Oh, I don't know; just because you're a parent doesn't mean that you're caring. Look at Charles, for example... <_<.

Not to mention we don't know a whole lot about Marianne so we can't rule it out. Who knows, what Lelouch remembers about her might just be the rose tinted vision of a young child's admiration for his parent.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Not to mention we don't know a whole lot about Marianne so we can't rule it out. Who knows, what Lelouch remembers about her might just be the rose tinted vision of a young child's admiration for his parent.

Exactly. The Marianne he knew may have been just a farcade - just like the gentle Lulu that the Student Council knows is mostly a farcade.. <_<.

[demon_god04]

Exactly. The Marianne he knew may have been just a farcade - just like the gentle Lulu that the Student Council knows is mostly a farcade.. <_<.

For some reason, the idea Marianne that orchestrated her own death with C.C inorder to turn Lelouch against the Emperor kinda appeals to me :heh::heh:

[Kristen]

I have to wonder... What if Marianne is actually alive?

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

I have to wonder... What if Marianne is actually alive?

What about it? It's a theory many have expressed, but one that actually adds more fuel to the fire for several conspiration theories out there (such as "Marianne is alive and has been using Lelouch from the start as a means to bring down Charles/The Britannian empire!" or "Marianne is alive and she and Charles have planned this all together as a test to see if Lelouch is truly worthy of inheritign the throne!", etc).

[demon_god04]

You don't rewrite the memory and then as bait to be killed when you want that person to take over the throne someday :eyebrow:

[Dann of Thursday]

thats pretty harsh don't you think? she is after all lelouch's mom. maybe she has some other motive.. but i don't shes that heartless.

Not at all. Lelouch just simply was fooled by his mother just like everyone else if this was the case. I bet besides seeing her mother get shot, Nunnally was traumatized because she found something horrible about her mother like that she never loved them at all.

For some reason, the idea Marianne that orchestrated her own death with C.C inorder to turn Lelouch against the Emperor kinda appeals to me :heh::heh:

I'm sure it does.

He really is nothing, but a puppet if you think about. C.C. and Marianne could very well just be shaping him into the kind of person they need to fufill their desires. Lelouch will probably find out and hate both of them. Maybe Kallen will find out and try to save him as well since she is now much more involved in the series.

I have to wonder... What if Marianne is actually alive?

She could easily be immortal like C.C..

[Kristen]

What about it? It's a theory many have expressed, but one that actually adds more fuel to the fire for several conspiration theories out there (such as "Marianne is alive and has been using Lelouch from the start as a means to bring down Charles/The Britannian empire!" or "Marianne is alive and she and Charles have planned this all together as a test to see if Lelouch is truly worthy of inheritign the throne!", etc).

Well, it's pretty obvious to me that Charles had planned out everything in season 1, seeing his reaction after Euphie's massacre. That was the most unpredictable event I've seen, and he was still laughing like he had planned it to happen this way all along.

I have a theory that Rollo's Geass may have not been given by C2 or V2, but someone else... But, it has no backing until I find out who the people he assasinated were...

[Dann of Thursday]

He didn't plan it out from what I saw. He was just happy that Lelouch finally pulled something like this because he expected it.

And they pretty much confirmed it was V.V. already so it is him as revealed during episode 8 if I recall correctly.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Well, it's pretty obvious to me that Charles had planned out everything in season 1, seeing his reaction after Euphie's massacre. That was the most unpredictable event I've seen, and he was still laughing like he had planned it to happen this way all along.

Maybe he did. Father and son seems to both have a habit of laughing insanely when their plans succeed... :uhoh: . Or maybe he jsut laughed because (or so he tought9 Lelouch had becoem ruthless enough to pull something like that <_<).

I have a theory that Rollo's Geass may have not been given by C2 or V2, but someone else... But, it has no backing until I find out who the people he assasinated were...

Nah, it seems more or less confirmed that V.V. was the one who gave him Geass, but you never know, I suppose (he might've been found by V.V. and Geassed by Charles into thinking that V.V. was the one who gave him his Geass).

[Dann of Thursday]

I think we are taking the Emperor's geass power too far. It seems stupid for him to have used it for such a purpose, though it would be interesting if the person he got his Geass from was Marianne or something.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Maybe he did. Father and son seems to both have a habit of laughing insanely when their plans succeed... . Or maybe he jsut laughed because (or so he tought9 Lelouch had becoem ruthless enough to pull something like that <_<).

"He did it! He actually DID IT!"

His reaction was the exact same as Diethardt and CC. They knew that this could happen and were somewhat overjoyed and surprised respectively to see that Lelouch would swoop that low.

[Dann of Thursday]

So C.C. was overjoyed and happy he went so low? I didn't get that from her reaction, but it's probably true. Her comforting might have been a way to make him think he did nothing wrong at all and it was a good thing for him to do.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

So C.C. was overjoyed and happy he went so low? I didn't get that from her reaction, but it's probably true. Her comforting might have been a way to make him think he did nothing wrong at all and it was a good thing for him to do.

Well, for all we know, she (and Marianne, probably, assuming that they're in on this together) wants him to become the devil/demon king he styles himself to be - through considering the more recent developments of this show, it probably won't happen (becuase Lelouch seems to be taking the Good Guy-turn rather than the anti-hero/villain-route with the more recent developments).

[Dann of Thursday]

Yeah, that is absolutely correct. They probably want him to give up as much of his humanity as possible and become a heartless monster. Him not doing this is probably ruining their plan for him.

[KrimzonStriker]

Yeah, that is absolutely correct. They probably want him to give up as much of his humanity as possible and become a heartless monster. Him not doing this is probably ruining their plan for him.

Heartless monster? I generally feel that such a matter between either good or evil is an irrelevant consideration so long as the goal is realized for them and for Lelouch, I mean C.C has warned him about the actions he has undertaken and that at certain points he could still turn back if he wanted. Whatever he did didn't really matter too C.C, whether he gave up being Zero (which also means giving up swallowing people into a torrent of blood in his struggle) once again seems rather irrelevant to what they are asking of him. Often times it is C.C that asks if this was what Lelouch desired to do and would acquiesce to obliging him on that matter, not the other way around.

[Dann of Thursday]

Lelouch doesn;t matter much as lon as he does whatever they want him to do. SHe's always manipulating him into choosing what she and Marianne want for him. He never chooses for himself.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Lelouch doesn;t matter much as lon as he does whatever they want him to do. SHe's always manipulating him into choosing what she and Marianne want for him. He never chooses for himself.

Well, those words have some truth in'em at least. As I remember it, in season one, after Shirely's father had died, Lelouch had some heavy doubts about whether to continue or not, but then, if I remember correctly, C.C. goaded him (sort of) into going on (she said stuff such as "Did you think this was all a game?" "For all your big words, you're just a little virgin boy" and so on, until Lelouch admited that he couldn't stop now).

[demon_god04]

But I thought that C.C made it clear she didn't really care as long as he doesn't get himself killed. I mean going by that C.C should be happier if Lelouch decided to say to hell with the Black Knights and live as a peaceful student, but here we are with Lelouch as Zero again and apparently going to China to stir up some trouble.

[Dann of Thursday]

All she does is manipulate him and destroy him. She is a living force of how power destroys him and she'll need to be killed by someone (Lelouch possibly though Kallen would be far more fitting and they could even make it some fanservice thing to please everyone) if Lelouch is ever to have anything close to a happy ending.

[KrimzonStriker]

Well, those words have some truth in'em at least. As I remember it, in season one, after Shirely's father had died, Lelouch had some heavy doubts about whether to continue or not, but then, if I remember correctly, C.C. goaded him (sort of) into going on (she said stuff such as "Did you think this was all a game?" "For all your big words, you're just a little virgin boy" and so on, until Lelouch admited that he couldn't stop now).

That's more to the point that Lelouch was the one who made this choice in the first place and was probably already adamant about continuing with her commenting about the situation and making him realize the reality of what he's down, she already dismisses this notion you bring up by saying that in the end she doesn't care what path he chooses in the end during Turn 7.

All she does is manipulate him and destroy him. She is a living force of how power destroys him and she'll need to be killed by someone (Lelouch possibly though Kallen would be far more fitting and they could even make it some fanservice thing to please everyone) if Lelouch is ever to have anything close to a happy ending.

Being a bit extreme here don't you think Dann, I mean what did C.C do that Lelouch didn't want to do in the first place and dragged her along with it for the ride. The Rebellion has no bearings on whatever goals C.C has, she simply moves to accommodate his wishes for the most part on that score. Even the Geass and the contract was grounded on such a principal, the power itself changed nothing except speed up what he already planned to do from the beginning. <_<

[Dann of Thursday]

Considering Marianne's words and the suspicious circumstances of her "death", I wouldn't be surprised if this is all some huge game by them and that him even wanting to destroy Britannia was manipulation from the very beginning.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Considering Marianne's words and the suspicious circumstances of her "death", I wouldn't be surprised if this is all some huge game by them and that him even wanting to destroy Britannia was manipulation from the very beginning.

Do you really think the directors will do that to Lelouch though? I mean this is his show, everything has to work out perfectly good for him in the end.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Do you really think the directors will do that to Lelouch though? I mean this is his show, everything has to work out perfectly good for him in the end.

"Perfectly good"? There is this thing called bittersweet ending.....

[Dann of Thursday]

Do you really think the directors will do that to Lelouch though? I mean this is his show, everything has to work out perfectly good for him in the end.

Yes, because C.C. and Marianne need to be villains in this story.

And no it doesn't. Okouchi confirmed Lelouch would get a good ending. kallen, Nunnally and other people can comfort and help him live his life after the other two prove evil.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Do you really think the directors will do that to Lelouch though? I mean this is his show, everything has to work out perfectly good for him in the end.

Yes, they could. They could have Lelouch come out victorious of it all despite him having been manipulated from the start. Like, he gains knowledge at some point of the fact that he has been manipulated/used from the very start, but he rises again and devises and executes some huge plan which turn the tables on his enemies and/or those who have manipulated him. And that's it. and if not that, there's the bittersweet ending option as Kang said <_<.

[KrimzonStriker]

Considering Marianne's words and the suspicious circumstances of her "death", I wouldn't be surprised if this is all some huge game by them and that him even wanting to destroy Britannia was manipulation from the very beginning.

We wait and see how it plays out before making outlandish conclusions which may or may not happen. In any event, it'd at least do you some good to quit stressing about these things Dann :rolleyes:

[Aquaman OS]

I'm expecting a bittersweet ending. The majority of mecha shows have them. That doesn't mean Lelouch will die but he won't have a completely happy end and he might lose something precious to him in the end.

Come on after everything that's happened so far are you expecting Lelouch to have a fairytale ending where everyone agrees to stop fighting forever and he gets to frolic in the flowers with Nunnally? Please. Nunnally might die before the show is over.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Yes, because C.C. and Marianne need to be villains in this story.

I would say "villains" is going a bit too far there, mate.

[Dann of Thursday]

Why? No matter what it's going to happen in the complete opposite way that I wanted so C.C. and marianne will be evil in the end and probably manipulated Lelouch. Nunnally probably knows the truth but hid it deep down because of what happened.

I would say "villains" is going a bit too far there, mate.

No it isn't because that's all they are. And that would give you a great bittersweet ending since his partner and mother turned out to be manipulative souless creatures with no capablility for love at all.

[Eliarine]

I'm expecting a bittersweet ending. The majority of mecha shows have them. That doesn't mean Lelouch will die but he won't have a completely happy end and he might lose something precious to him in the end.

Come on after everything that's happened so far are you expecting Lelouch to have a fairytale ending where everyone agree's to stop fighting forever and he gets to frolic in the flowers with Nunnally? Please. Nunnally might die before the show is over.

Thanks, I was about to reply with something of the kind but couldn't find the right words for some reason :p I really don't think things will turn out "perfectly" good for Lelouch in the end since that would pretty much ruin the show in my opinion. :confused:

[Dann of Thursday]

He has to suffer horribly in the end somehow. Finding out his mother doesn't love him at all is a pretty good start. Kill his sister and former friend and it'll be all good.

[Kang Seung Jae]

He has to suffer horribly in the end somehow. Finding out his mother doesn't love him at all is a pretty good start. Kill his sister and former friend and it'll be all good.

That's going from bittersweet ending to Greek tragedy :eyebrow:

[mash11]

But it is not the case, the fact that in one of the sound episodes, we hear CC talking to him, about someone wanting to check on his and Nunally's safety, and not to mention the fact that she is in constant contact with CC, although it does not mean that she is not using them.

[Elicit]

Yes, because C.C. and Marianne need to be villains in this story.

And no it doesn't. Okouchi confirmed Lelouch would get a good ending. kallen, Nunnally and other people can comfort and help him live his life after the other two prove evil.

They need to be villains in this story? Since when? Where does this sort of need to be evil stems from? Honestly, stop stating your feelings as though they were fact. Bringing your "past experience" from other series means nothing. Code Geass is not those series you had the unfortunate mishap to be watching.

[KrimzonStriker]

This is just typical Dann at this point guys, best get used to it... >_>

[demon_god04]

I'd actually say that he is slowly getting more and more pessimistic as the weeks go by. :heh: But really wouldn't it be funny if C.C and Marianne was the true villians and that the Emperor and V.V were trying to stop them or something? :heh::heh:

[Kang Seung Jae]

This is just typical Dann at this point guys, best get used to it... >_>

I think this is a bit more than your typical Dann, but that's my thought.


I'd actually say that he is slowly getting more and more pessimistic as the weeks go by. :heh: But really wouldn't it be funny if C.C and Marianne was the true villians and that the Emperor and V.V were trying to stop them or something? :heh::heh:

Meaning that Charles was actually helping Lelouch with all the things he threw at him? That's similar to the theory that Charles to grooming Lelouch to inherit the throne.....

[demon_god04]

Meaning that Charles was actually helping Lelouch with all the things he threw at him? That's similar to the theory that Charles to grooming Lelouch to inherit the throne.....[/B]

Well if Lelouch was getting used by C.C and Marianne then all the stuff he throws at Lelouch would be him trying to throw a wrench into their plans. :heh:

[Traece]

Personally I agree with this whole, "Charles is grooming Lelouch to be the most powerful king there ever was," talk.
From what is said by Cornelia, Marianne asked her to remove the guards for the night. This essentially means that Marianne wanted to die, OR was being controlled by a Geass power to, well, want to die. Either way, it means that the event was staged to give Lelouch an immense hatred for the Britannian Royal Family. Britannia rules via supremacy, "Survival of the Fittest." Which means that Lelouch would have an extreme advantage because of all his fellow Britannian royals he despises Britannia and the Royal Family the most, and has the greatest desire to kill every last member of royalty. That's where survival of the fittest comes in. He's also been given the Geass, which is "The Power of Kings." To make things even more favorable for this, his Geass power is commanding ABSOLUTE loyalty to his commands for a very, very long amount of time (As shown by the girl carving on the wall each day). He already commands like a king, even more so because of the fact that he can't be disobeyed. We already know of course that Lelouch is a powerful man with a strategic mind that has yet to be out-performed by anyone more than once. He's also not afraid to get down and dirty, and he has a limited concience. On more than one occasion he's been guilty of mass murder and on several occasions he's killed people and ruined people for his own gain. He's also not afraid to make a risk, which is surprisingly good for leadership. All this piled in makes him great Britannian King material. He may not realize it, but "Survival of the Fittest," is something he's excelling in.

Unfortunately I can imagine either Suzaku, Nunally, or Lelouch dying. As much as it pains me to think I have a feeling that one of those three is going to die. Hopefully Nina is the one that dies though. <_< I don't like her to be honest... She annoys me.

[Dann of Thursday]

That whole grooming theory makes the whole thing with the God Killing seem sort of pointless and stupid. If it weren't in the plot then I could totally buy that Charles did all this to groom Lelouch, but with that in mind I can't. I suppose if C.C. and Marianne were grooming him though to both get rid of V.V. and Charles and become their puppet it would work.

[Velden]

Up until now there is no hint, or at least i haven´t find one, of that happening. The only thing that Charles has been focused on has been two things: capture C.C and "Kill the gods". From what i see it, Lelouch is just a mere tool, just like Nunnaly. If someone would want lelouch be the new emperor, i believe it would be Marianne. She doesn´t want to let know her son that she is alive, which would mean that she at least wants him to keep organizing his rebellion against his father.
She could also be in another dimension, but still she could have asked C.C to have a chat with him and share some words...which hasn´t happened...

[Dann of Thursday]

She probably is making him into some great leader or something that she can control from the sidelines through C.C.. If that was it, then the plan would have to fail.

[Velden]

But now that i think about it...if Marianne would have wanted to turn her son into some leader and using C.C as her link to him...¿Why C.C told her that she doesn´t mind the fall of the Black Knights?...If they wanted Lelouch to be a leader, she would have look for him and try to persuade him into continuing the fight...

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

But now that i think about it...if Marianne would have wanted to turn her son into some leader and using C.C as her link to him...¿Why C.C told her that she doesn´t mind the fall of the Black Knights?...If they wanted Lelouch to be a leader, she would have look for him and try to persuade him into continuing the fight...

Oh, there could be many explainations for that. but first and foremost: as long as Lelouch is alive, he could still simply start things all over again at some point - maybe not as Zero, but defintively as a leader or either a rebellion, a coup - or whatever.

It's also possible that they have different goals here; Marianne may want Lelouch to be a leader, whereas C.C. doesn't care either way.

[Dann of Thursday]

I'd say Marianne's goal would be him as a leader. C.C. doesn't care either way as long as she gets her wish fufilled.

[Velden]

The second possibility seems more plausible. Which would mean that C.C and Marianne may not be working together and are just having casual conversations as friends...up until now, C.C hasn´t told her "everything is going according to the plan" or something like that...

[Dann of Thursday]

I think C.C. is probably just keeping an eye on him for Marianne's sake and is helping him here and there. She and Marianne probably made some sort of deal a long ways back, though C.C. seems to just want to keep an eye on him rather than actually guide him as she said in season 1.

[JesseJamesRocket]

If Marianne and C.C. are really involved in a conspiracy to steer Lelouch in some manner, then that means that it was no accident that he met C.C. in the first place. It sure seemed accidental to me, but then again if Charles is involved also you never know...

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

If Marianne and C.C. are really involved in a conspiracy to steer Lelouch in some manner, then that means that it was no accident that he met C.C. in the first place. It sure seemed accidental to me, but then again if Charles is involved also you never know...

Well, first off, remember C.C.'s telepatic message to Lelouch, "I've found you!" at the start of season 1? Plus the small glimpse we see of C.C. in a kimono watching Lelouch & Suzaku that we see, also at the start of season 1? That as well as other things makes it seem like it wasn't an "accidental meeting", all in all.. <_<.

[Dann of Thursday]

Marianne asked C.C. to watch over her kids. This is a fact. She probably was captured at some point and the experiments on her began soon enough. That's all we know.

And I have "it" rather than "you".

[ShadowSongx]

Marianne asked C.C. to watch over her kids. This is a fact. She probably was captured at some point and the experiments on her began soon enough. That's all we know.

And I have "it" rather than "you".

She also says "My..." after that, according to the subs I also have "it".

Wonder what she meant by "My..."

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

And I have "it" rather than "you".

Hmm, being hearing impared, I can't hear the word, but I'm guessing she "thinks" "Mitsudasu!", "Mitsuketa" or the like? Well, if so it can be translated as both "I found it/I found you". It depends on the context, through i'm more inclined to beleive that it's "you" in this case here...

[Ice_Bullet]

I think C.C. is probably just keeping an eye on him for Marianne's sake and is helping him here and there. She and Marianne probably made some sort of deal a long ways back, though C.C. seems to just want to keep an eye on him rather than actually guide him as she said in season 1.

deal?

C.C : you want me to look after your son?

marianne : yeah. and give him a geass too.

C.C : he will be outcasted!

marianne : too bad then. just give it to him

:D

anyway. i have a feeling that their grooming lelouch to be a leader. maybe to end take charles place. however, it seems like lelouch doesn't want to do that... hmm..could be that both of them want britinnia destroyed..

about marianne being kind.. hmm.. i hope shes different from charles.. that would show that lelouch has a cruel and twisted family >_>

[Koshimizu]

And I have "it" rather than "you".Nah. No such thing.
What she said is "Mitsuketa", which simply means "I found". In Japanese, subjective and objective can be omitted and still makes a sentence.
It is simple enough to know who she's talking about, adding an objective would be superfluous.

It doesn't make sense to be "it". Put "it" in there is just evil and twisted thinking.
If anything other than "him" can be stuffed in this line, then there is an equal chance for C.C. to mean "I found her" and Lelouch is originally a girl but genderswitched. ;)

She also says "My..." after that, according to the subs I also have "it".
Wonder what she meant by "My..."My butler for picking up my clothes, cleaning the room, and buying me pizza. j/k :heh:

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

deal?

C.C : you want me to look after your son?

marianne : yeah. and give him a geass too.

C.C : he will be outcasted!

marianne : too bad then. just give it to him

Last I checked, Lulu and Nunally were ALREADY outcasts. One man's curse is another man's opportunity. Fitting-in has never been what Lulu wanted, he needed POWER.

[Dann of Thursday]

Nah. No such thing.
What she said is "Mitsuketa", which simply means "I found". In Japanese, subjective and objective can be omitted and still makes a sentence.
It is simple enough to know who she's talking about, adding an objective would be superfluous.

It doesn't make sense to be "it". Put "it" in there is just evil and twisted thinking.
If anything other than "him" can be stuffed in this line, then there is an equal chance for C.C. to mean "I found her" and Lelouch is originally a girl but genderswitched. ;)

My butler for picking up my clothes, cleaning the room, and buying me pizza. j/k :heh:

The subs I have said "it". "You" or "him" does make more sense for the line though.

I sort of thought she meant her contractor or something of the sort since that is what he is after all.

[praeceps]

That whole grooming theory makes the whole thing with the God Killing seem sort of pointless and stupid. If it weren't in the plot then I could totally buy that Charles did all this to groom Lelouch, but with that in mind I can't. I suppose if C.C. and Marianne were grooming him though to both get rid of V.V. and Charles and become their puppet it would work.

Or the Emperor could be grooming Lelouch to kill the gods and take over the throne in Charles's place, instead of just for taking over the throne.

[Dann of Thursday]

It still seems like a silly idea to me since he doesn't seem to care what his son does at all as long as it doesn't interfere with his plans nor do I think he plans on just handing over things to Lelouch nor would Lelouch take that position.

[zgmf-x19a]

Preparing Lelouch to become his successor sounds lame and really unoriginal I do hope the Marianne plotting with C.C behind the scene is not going to happen either because that would also lack creativity

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Preparing Lelouch to become his successor sounds lame and really unoriginal I do hope the Marianne plotting with C.C behind the scene is not going to happen either because that would also lack creativity

Charles does not look like the type to play favorites. His successor will be whoever gets to kill him, it doesn't matter which one.

[Renegade334]

It seems more like the succession contest between his heirs and relatives is a bonus entertainment for him rather than a priority. It seems to me that he's far more interested in attaining his goal - involving the sword of Akasha and whatever V.V. intends to do than champion (be it directly or from the shadows) any possible promising candidate to the throne. As VCV said, the battle will end when Charles will die (and for now I don't see his children summoning enough courage to kill the 'old lion') or all save one have bitten the dust. In the meantime, he can commit his mind to other, more pressing goals - that alleged 'god-slaying' event.

While it is still possible for Charles to play the evil mastermind behind the curtains and subtly groom Lelouch into a leader that would have given Machiavel a hard-on of cosmic proportions, I highly doubt this scenario ranks very high on his private agenda. Furthermore, Schneizel already seems the perfect heir to the Empire yet it doesn't seem like Charles is giving him full attention like he did to Lelouch. Rather, he seemed more ecstatic by the chaos caused by Lelouch's blunder in the SAR than the fact that Lelouch had made an important step in his policy (abandoning all pretenses of humanity in order to progress in his quest for revenge).

Unless there is some sort of precognitive ability he benefitted from (which would show Lelouch's future accomplishments and suggest he's made of neater stuff than all of his half-siblings), there is no reason for Charles to behave thusly. He's just enjoying the wild ride Lelouch's providing him. And if Lelouch proves to be an even better chess piece than Schneizel, then good for him. Otherwise, well, bah...too bad.

As for Marianne talking with C.C.? It's confirmed C.C. could converse with people in some sort of spirit plane so it's always possible the two got acquainted through a chance-meeting (an S1 spoiler -supplied by FO, IIRC- stated she could have even met the Emperor without knowing who he was). Otherwise it's always possible that C.C. contacted Marianne to have a counterweight to V.V.'s existence.

[lightbringer]

The subs I have said "it". "You" or "him" does make more sense for the line though.
Without going into specifics on groups (I don't wanna get banned after all), you do realize that all Code Geass subs are of quite poor quality, right? This is true of both seasons, but especially of season 1 (and doubly so for the first eight to ten episodes of season 1). Take all subs with a grain of salt. Or better yet, with a truckload of salt.

Also, I would put more faith into Koshimizu than into certain fansub groups even if this case wasn't trivial.

[demon_god04]

You have to wonder whether Charles really cares for the Britannia empire after his death. With all the expanding especially for those geass ruins, they have to be stretching their forces pretty thin. Stationing sufficient troops to keep the oppressed Areas in line, and the battle with the EU which may or may not have ended thanks to Schneizel. And also the supposedly useless and spineless crown prince, and the possiblity of Schneizel plotting something. You'd think the guy would be too busy to take up god killing as a hobby:heh:

I am curious though as to why people think Charles is grooming Lelouch to be his successor. I mean if Marianne's death was planned to motivate him then how would erasing his memories of that be of any advantage at all? Why would you set up someone you want as an heir as bait to be disposed of?

[Ketro]

I am curious though as to why people think Charles is grooming Lelouch to be his successor. I mean if Marianne's death was planned to motivate him then how would erasing his memories of that be of any advantage at all? Why would you set up someone you want as an heir as bait to be disposed of?


Perhaps as a test of some sort, to see if Lelouch would somehow recover from his memory loss, and from that try to finish what he started.

[demon_god04]

Point is that he seems more interested in getting C.C and couldn't really care less about Lelouch after that.

[Ketro]

The reason why he needs CC is still a mystery (unless I am missing something), so there is still a possibility it is for Lelouch. Considering Charles' personality though, its unlikely that he would do so much for Lelouch (Did I just contradict myself :uhoh:)

[Koshimizu]

The subs I have said "it". "You" or "him" does make more sense for the line though.I know it's not you Dann. ;)
I just wonder why the translator of this sub is being mean to C.C. :heh:
You have to wonder whether Charles really cares for the Britannia empire after his death. With all the expanding especially for those geass ruins, they have to be stretching their forces pretty thin. Stationing sufficient troops to keep the oppressed Areas in line, and the battle with the EU which may or may not have ended thanks to Schneizel. And also the supposedly useless and spineless crown prince, and the possiblity of Schneizel plotting something. You'd think the guy would be too busy to take up god killing as a hobby:heh:I'm thinking... Perhaps god killing (or preventing/linking to Ragnarok) is his first priority, and time is wearing thin. Therefore he must grab hold to all the ruins or finish the thought elevator ASAP, at all cost. Britannia can be sacrificed if he has a greater goal to achieve.
I am curious though as to why people think Charles is grooming Lelouch to be his successor. I mean if Marianne's death was planned to motivate him then how would erasing his memories of that be of any advantage at all? Why would you set up someone you want as an heir as bait to be disposed of?It could be for adding more fuel to Lelouch's anger and motivation.
They don't seem enthusiastic in killing him. And since they can't kill him unless they see C.C., that means C.C. would be there to protect him. From this viewpoint, it looks like an operation to wake him up. The name of the operation, Valhalla, also looks funny since it's the Valkyrie (which I imagine would imply C.C. rather than that old fat baron) who's sending soldiers to Valhalla, not the other way around. XD

And it could be like this:
Charles: Muahahaha! He finally did it! That's my boy! (Stage22)
(Later)
Charles: What? That was merely an accident? Great. Let's see if taking his sister away from him, brainwashing him, and dumping him back to start from nothing will shape him up a bit. :heh:

Although I don't like the "grooming to be successor" theory (it's taking the easy way out IMO), I see why lots of people think this way.

[Kang Seung Jae]

And it could be like this:
Charles: Muahahaha! He finally did it! That's my boy! (Stage22)
(Later)
Charles: What? That was merely an accident? Great. Let's see if taking his sister away from him, brainwashing him, and dumping him back to start from nothing will shape him up a bit. :heh:

Hilarious. :heh:

[Koshimizu]

Turn 13- Assassin From The Past「過去　から　の　刺客」, July 6th
http://www.shareapic.net/preview3/009135569.jpg (http://www.shareapic.net/content.php?id=9135569&owner=Koshimizu) Margrave Jeremiah, who was defeated by Lelouch a year ago, was reported missing. Now, being revived by the mysterious boy V.V., Jeremiah approaches the academy. What would his purpose be?!2nd opening song will be sung by FLOW. Title undecided. (No photo yet, but several people confirmed it.)
2nd ending song by Ali Project, title: My Beautifully Elegant Flower of Evil (わが臈たし悪の華).
Both FLOW and Ali Project are back! Yay! Will we have Kimutaka drawing the new ending pics too? :D


http://www.shareapic.net/preview3/009135575.jpg (http://www.shareapic.net/content.php?id=9135575&owner=Koshimizu) New character fortune series.
The "secret" one looks like Rolo, judging from the hair. I wonder what that design would be. His casual clothes seems too boring to be kept secret.

[mash11]

the next episodes are looking to be quite enjoyable, it looks like CG is back to its norm.

[Tokkan]

Jeremiah's going to be this season's Mao?

[Pride]

Turn 13- Assassin From The Past「過去　から　の　刺客」, July 6th
http://www.shareapic.net/preview3/009135569.jpg (http://www.shareapic.net/content.php?id=9135569&owner=Koshimizu) Margrave Jeremiah, who was defeated by Lelouch a year ago, was reported missing. Now, being revived by the mysterious boy V.V., Jeremiah approaches the academy. What would his purpose be?!2nd opening song will be sung by FLOW. Title undecided. (No photo yet, but several people confirmed it.)
2nd ending song by Ali Project, title: My Beautifully Elegant Flower of Evil (わが臈たし悪の華).
Both FLOW and Ali Project are back! Yay! Will we have Kimutaka drawing the new ending pics too? :D

http://www.shareapic.net/preview3/009135575.jpg (http://www.shareapic.net/content.php?id=9135575&owner=Koshimizu) New character fortune series.
The "secret" one looks like Rolo, judging from the hair. I wonder what that design would be. His casual clothes seems too boring to be kept secret.

Hmm... I hope the new OP will be as epic as Colors.

And Orange is back to fail once again. :heh:

[Airi]

Hmm... I hope the new OP will be as epic as Colors.

And Orange is back to fail once again. :heh:

The song must be as epic as Ash like Snow :) Colors is nice but too slow...

[ZeroSama]

Ah crap i thought we had finally left that place behind.

[lightbringer]

Ah crap i thought we had finally left that place behind.

And where did you think Turn 12's "love attack" was gonna take place, with that new one-episode girl with the Ashford uniform? ^_^;;

[C.C.]

Turn 13- Assassin From The Past「過去　から　の　刺客」, July 6th
http://www.shareapic.net/preview3/009135569.jpg (http://www.shareapic.net/content.php?id=9135569&owner=Koshimizu) Margrave Jeremiah, who was defeated by Lelouch a year ago, was reported missing. Now, being revived by the mysterious boy V.V., Jeremiah approaches the academy. What would his purpose be?!2nd opening song will be sung by FLOW. Title undecided. (No photo yet, but several people confirmed it.)
2nd ending song by Ali Project, title: My Beautifully Elegant Flower of Evil (わが臈たし悪の華).
Both FLOW and Ali Project are back! Yay! Will we have Kimutaka drawing the new ending pics too? :D


http://www.shareapic.net/preview3/009135575.jpg (http://www.shareapic.net/content.php?id=9135575&owner=Koshimizu) New character fortune series.
The "secret" one looks like Rolo, judging from the hair. I wonder what that design would be. His casual clothes seems too boring to be kept secret.

So V.V. has the power to revive people? o__O

Thank you very much for all the infos!! I'm looking forward to the new opening song, I hope it would be as great as Colors! :D
The Chara Fortunes are so cute, I'd like to have the most of them T__T

[Renegade334]

I'll leave the linguistics and translation issues to Koshimizu (who's, without the shadow of a doubt, dramatically better versed in this field than me), but 'revived' could carry more connotations beyond its face value meaning. Since Orange-kun coming back from the shadows, his 'revival' could very well be a mere synonym of 'reappearance' or 'rescue from death' - not necessarily pure resurrection as the questioned word could suggest.

If we know that V.V. has the ability to warp people from one location to the other, it wouldn't surprise me if he pulled that trick on Jeremiah, too - saving him from an inescapable doom. One thing I wonder, though, is whether the former margrave retained damages from the previous experiments (in which way, he would more perfectly mirror Mao's demented/obsessed character) or if V.V. bothered to mend the mental scarring and give him a semblance of stability.

Although the prospect of seeing him running after Lelouch all the while singing 'Rule, Britannia'...doesn't sound so bad after all. :uhoh:

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

... So... Jeremiah is back, and out of all places that he has to appear in.. The academy!? We're truly not getting free of the academy anytime soon, if ever.. -_-. Ah well, it should be interesting enough to see.. Even if it feels dangerously much like a repeat of the Mao-event...

Ah well, this about a new OP sounds good if anything! :D

[Narona]

Turn 13- Assassin From The Past「過去　から　の　刺客」, July 6th
http://www.shareapic.net/preview3/009135569.jpg (http://www.shareapic.net/content.php?id=9135569&owner=Koshimizu) Margrave Jeremiah, who was defeated by Lelouch a year ago, was reported missing. Now, being revived by the mysterious boy V.V., Jeremiah approaches the academy. What would his purpose be?!2nd opening song will be sung by FLOW. Title undecided. (No photo yet, but several people confirmed it.)
2nd ending song by Ali Project, title: My Beautifully Elegant Flower of Evil (わが臈たし悪の華).
Both FLOW and Ali Project are back! Yay! Will we have Kimutaka drawing the new ending pics too? :D


http://www.shareapic.net/preview3/009135575.jpg (http://www.shareapic.net/content.php?id=9135575&owner=Koshimizu) New character fortune series.
The "secret" one looks like Rolo, judging from the hair. I wonder what that design would be. His casual clothes seems too boring to be kept secret.

Thanks Koshimizu, as always ;)

The characters fortune are cute :nod:

[demon_god04]

I'm thinking... Perhaps god killing (or preventing/linking to Ragnarok) is his first priority, and time is wearing thin. Therefore he must grab hold to all the ruins or finish the thought elevator ASAP, at all cost. Britannia can be sacrificed if he has a greater goal to achieve.
It could be for adding more fuel to Lelouch's anger and motivation.
They don't seem enthusiastic in killing him. And since they can't kill him unless they see C.C., that means C.C. would be there to protect him. From this viewpoint, it looks like an operation to wake him up. The name of the operation, Valhalla, also looks funny since it's the Valkyrie (which I imagine would imply C.C. rather than that old fat baron) who's sending soldiers to Valhalla, not the other way around. XD

Thats my point though, he just doesn't seem to care all that much for Britannia and is rather more concerned with those ruins and the Sword of Akasha. It just seems very unlikely that he would be grooming Lelouch or anyone else for that matter as his successor. And remember, the intelligence soldiers in episode one were to dispose of Lelouch once they got C.C, if it went according to plan Lulu would be dead.

And it could be like this:
Charles: Muahahaha! He finally did it! That's my boy! (Stage22)
(Later)
Charles: What? That was merely an accident? Great. Let's see if taking his sister away from him, brainwashing him, and dumping him back to start from nothing will shape him up a bit. :heh:

Although I don't like the "grooming to be successor" theory (it's taking the easy way out IMO), I see why lots of people think this way.

haha gold :heh:

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

And remember, the intelligence soldiers in episode one were to dispose of Lelouch once they got C.C, if it went according to plan Lulu would be dead.

And remember that the soldiers were badly informed in the first place; they may ot may not have known about Lelouch's geass, but they for sure weren't informed about C.C.'s immortally as well as the fact that she had the ability to restore Lelouch's memory and Geass :cool:. anyway, knowing Charles, he'd be likely to reason that "If he can't even escape a situation like this, then he was too weak in the first place after all!" :uhoh:.

[zgmf-x19a]

Thanks for the summary Koshimizu :)
If V.V is capable of reviving people that's going to make him too uber we haven't seen any of C.C's power except giving out Geass just like V.V can but he seems to be able to teleport people too.
I wonder why Orange-kun is so popular can someone explain to me ? lol
I wonder if V.V bothered telling him about Zero's true identity
I also wonder if the Emperor suspects that the new Zero is just the old one maybe V.V already told him

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

I wonder why Orange-kun is so popular can someone explain to me ? lol

I think it has to do with him being a funny, in some ways absurd and tragic character at the same time... :heh:

I wonder if V.V bothered telling him about Zero's true identity

If not, then I sort of expect him to find out this time around...

[demon_god04]

And remember that the soldiers were badly informed in the first place; they may ot may not have known about Lelouch's geass, but they for sure weren't informed about C.C.'s immortally as well as the fact that she had the ability to restore Lelouch's memory and Geass :cool:. anyway, knowing Charles, he'd be likely to reason that "If he can't even escape a situation like this, then he was too weak in the first place after all!" :uhoh:.

It seems like Viletta and Rollo were the only ones that knew about geass and with Rollo killing anyone that might have the slightest chance of hearing the word I doubt many know the whole picture. It still seems far fetched to say that Charles is doing all this to groom Lelouch though, his memory was erased so he could be an obedient bait not to test him. And what about Rollo's orders that if Lelouch ever recovers his memories, Rollo is to kill him.

[Blue_Mercy]

I think it has to do with him being a funny, in some ways absurd and tragic character at the same time... :heh:


I never liked Orange, but many do. Yeah it'll be funny right up until he destroys Ashford or hurts one of the student council members.:eyebrow: I don't get V.V., does he just screw over Lelouch because he wants to or because Charles asked him to? Or he dislikes C.C.? Or some other reason?

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

It seems like Viletta and Rollo were the only ones that knew about geass and with Rollo killing anyone that might have the slightest chance of hearing the word I doubt many know the whole picture.

Well, Viletta spoke openly about the Geass at that meeting in episode 3, so perhaps only about less than 10 people on the whole team has some knowledge about Geass.

It still seems far fetched to say that Charles is doing all this to groom Lelouch though, his memory was erased so he could be an obedient bait not to test him. And what about Rollo's orders that if Lelouch ever recovers his memories, Rollo is to kill him.

*shrugs*. It isn't the biggest possibility out there IMO, but it's still a theory that has plenty enough going for it :p . And as I said.. He might just figure that if Lelouch can't get himself out of the whole mess, then he was never ment to get very far in the first case anyway :p . It's all about the old chinese tale that the lion will push his cubs down a ravine and only acknowledge those who successfully manage to climb back up, I suppose :uhoh:

[Koshimizu]

There's another reason for Charles to "gloom" Lelouch though. Not for Britannia, but for Ragnarok or whatever his greater plan is.
Well, Viletta spoke openly about the Geass at that meeting in episode 3, so perhaps only about less than 10 people on the whole team has some knowledge about Geass.I believe she's talking to herself in that scene, since Rolo said "the two of us are the only ones in Tokyo that knows about Geass." And later killed the one who overheard merely a few words.
I'll leave the linguistics and translation issues to Koshimizu (who's, without the shadow of a doubt, dramatically better versed in this field than me), but 'revived' could carry more connotations beyond its face value meaning. Since Orange-kun coming back from the shadows, his 'revival' could very well be a mere synonym of 'reappearance' or 'rescue from death' - not necessarily pure resurrection as the questioned word could suggest.Your explain is good enough. ;)
Yep it doesn't have to mean "revived from the dead". The word "revived" is pretty commonly used in anime and manga. The best example being the manga in Jump magazine. When someone is beaten up lying flat on the ground, remembers his friends or an important person, and then stand up and say "I can still fight"... that can be described as "revive!" too. ;)

Orange is in a pretty bad fix last time we saw him, with tubes connected to his spine, and a mental status of saying weird lines like "good morning-ed", "Zeroooo", "back is back" and stuff. But he looks pretty normal now. "Revive" could mean V.V. making him normal again.
Or maybe V.V. rescued him. Since he's implanted with C.C.'s cell (?), that makes him hard to kill. All he needs is someone to bail him out of the water. :D

[Stretch5920]

Turn 13- Assassin From The Past「過去　から　の　刺客」, July 6th
http://www.shareapic.net/preview3/009135569.jpg (http://www.shareapic.net/content.php?id=9135569&owner=Koshimizu) Margrave Jeremiah, who was defeated by Lelouch a year ago, was reported missing. Now, being revived by the mysterious boy V.V., Jeremiah approaches the academy. What would his purpose be?!


So Lelouch is back at school? ugh this season is failing hard in my eyes.

[zgmf-x19a]

There's another reason for Charles to "gloom" Lelouch though. Not for Britannia, but for Ragnarok or whatever his greater plan is.
I believe she's talking to herself in that scene, since Rolo said "the two of us are the only ones in Tokyo that knows about Geass." And later killed the one who overheard merely a few words.
Your explain is good enough. ;)
Yep it doesn't have to mean "revived from the dead". The word "revived" is pretty commonly used in anime and manga. The best example being the manga in Jump magazine. When someone is beaten up lying flat on the ground, remembers his friends or an important person, and then stand up and say "I can still fight"... that can be described as "revive!" too. ;)

Orange is in a pretty bad fix last time we saw him, with tubes connected to his spine, and a mental status of saying weird lines like "good morning-ed", "Zeroooo", "back is back" and stuff. But he looks pretty normal now. "Revive" could mean V.V. making him normal again.
Or maybe V.V. rescued him. Since he's implanted with C.C.'s cell (?), that makes him hard to kill. All he needs is someone to bail him out of the water. :D

Do you know why Orange is so popular?
Is the word 'fukatsu' the word used for revival here? Just like Zero when he said he was revived.(sorry I don't know Japanese I'm just trying writing it using English letters lol)
Normal from afar doesn't mean mentally stable lol
Weren't all the tubes used to make him stronger and more clever?

[zgmf-x19a]

So Lelouch is back at school? ugh this season is failing hard in my eyes.

Yes as people mentionned before 'Zero has left Japan' but Lelouch reminds behind with Rollo to protect their everyday life

[Tokkan]

I don't get why being at school apparently makes the show so bad, the mixture of the revenge story, the over-the-top improbable strategies in battle and the school element is what made me love this show.

[zgmf-x19a]

I think we've had enough school time I'd like Lelouch to evolve in a different environment where Zero is more active because all he does at school is pretending and hiding himself.

[Airi]

So Lelouch is back at school? ugh this season is failing hard in my eyes.

yeah...It doesn't make much sense:eyespin:

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

I don't get why being at school apparently makes the show so bad, the mixture of the revenge story, the over-the-top improbable strategies in battle and the school element is what made me love this show.

Because most people feel that the school has next to no place at all in this season. That it's mostly being used as an excuse for random comedy and to bring back the old student council. What people want is to see Zero/Lelouch continue his battle against Britannia, outwit his enemies, allies and neutrals alike, purse the truth about his mother's murder, etc - not to see him waste time at the academy where there is little or no plot progression at all <_<

[zgmf-x19a]

My thoughts exactly DarkLordOfkichiku you a mind reader or something I was typing something similar and had to change it because of you :p

[Tokkan]

Because most people feel that the school has next to no place at all in this season. That it's mostly being used as an excuse for random comedy and to bring back the old student council. What people want is to see Zero/Lelouch continue his battle against Britannia, outwit his enemies, allies and neutrals alike, purse the truth about his mother's murder, etc - not to see him waste time at the academy where there is little or no plot progression at all <_<

And I shall quote myself from NF.

Look, now that the action is at the school, the students are going to get involved and it means that Lelouch has failed to keep his promise to Rolo to protect the school. If anything, this problem was foreshadowed in that bedroom scene in episode 8.

Looks like plot progression to me.

And I find your reasons for it lacking place amusing, considering Ashford has had less involvement in the episodes so far than in season 1. At this point in season 1 (up to stage 8), we had 3 whole episodes based mostly in Ashford. So far in season 2, Ashford has only had incidental scenes and the only episode where it was the entire focus was turn 5.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

My thoughts exactly DarkLordOfkichiku you a mind reader or something I was typing something similar and had to change it because of you :p

I doubt that, though it would be cool if I were :p

Anyway, more to the point, Lelouch's words in episode 8 also semeed to make it clear that he had severed ties with Area 11/Japan, of sorts, so why the heck'd he come back then!? The more one thinks about it, the more one comes to the conclusion that it feels like Sunrise's only trying to repeat an already successful formula, of sorta (meaning season 1 of course), a formula that Ashford academy was (unfortunately, perhaps) a part of :uhoh: