Hayate no Gotoku manga (raw discussion only) [Archive] - Page 25

leoblack9

2010-03-07, 20:22

still it was cute that what Athena could think off was only 1 wish that she wants to meet Hayate again...

her bond with hayate is strong... so I wonder why people cant accept this couple as the ending one ^^ well this was the first girl that hayate met...and after that there were many girls but he did not grow any romantic feelings to any of them.... his feelings were for athena after all ^^

I want athena to become from now on a normal character that sticks to the screen... and daily appears in hayates life ^^.... her streight foward acts (knows what she wants) are fresh compared to all other girls... that are shy and wont say at any costs..... while athena wants a kiss so she will tell tha she wants a kiss.... she wants a hug she will ask for a hug ^^

athenas character is perfect for other character development ^^ like they witness athenas streight fowardness :P and try to change themselfs to be similar... and get closer to hayate XD (the same witness jelous athena once more XD)

THIS,

Fawking THIS.

You, my brotha. Nailed the same idea I always had before. I always sensed that Athena will bring the great change in the series. Starting with the changes around her, the other girls will try to keep up with Athena's advances on Hayate. Given that Hayate does not say that she loves Athena to the others, but is still a secret between Athena, Hayate and Hina, which would probably keep it a secret as well (to not get in the way of their relationship, as a friend).

HmmMM, it's hamster slapping time ^_^

babohtea

2010-03-07, 22:58

zodanhko

2010-03-08, 00:04

I wonder if Athena would want to be seen kissing, maybe hugs are fine, in front of others since she does get embarrassed. Moreover, she is straightforward but she always act in a lady-like manner and demanding a kiss in front of others is not very, well, lady-like. But one thing I can say for sure is that Athena's presence will turn everything up-side down. :D

zero7

2010-03-08, 00:13

i think hayate bro and nagi mom end up together in RG since the time in RG is slower and maybe nagi was born in RG

zodanhko

2010-03-08, 00:17

Nagi was already 3 years old 10 years ago so that's impossible.

zero7

2010-03-08, 00:44

Nagi was already 3 years old 10 years ago so that's impossible.

i meant in RG since 5 days make 2 month

so 3 years in RG is 90 days so its possible to rise nagi in RG and than come back to the normal world

zodanhko

2010-03-08, 01:36

If Nagi was raise for sometime in the Royal Garden, I guess it is possible scenario although unlikely.

zibi88

2010-03-08, 02:53

Athena isn't perfectly straightforward still. Not that I expect any character to be perfectly blunt (it's inhuman). The biggest development I plan to see is Hina's development with Hayate and Athena after this. To be honest, this triangle is probably the main triangle in the series (the others are 12 year olds, or they don't have super powers).

It's interesting t wonder how Hayate might have reacted to Hina's confession. Even when Ayumu confessed to Hayate, he turned her down quite bluntly for a number of reasons. I'm not so sure Hayate would have done the same thing to Hina though. If you guys think about it logically, and not with any attachments you might have to Hina, Hina as a very small chance of winning Hayate.

well not sure about this.... if I remember there was a chapter where Maria was talking to Hayate.... about what if hina has feelings for hayate..... well hayate's answer was why would she have feelins for him... becouse she is pretty,smart,strong... so why would she be interested in him who is poor...... so its not like Hina lost already :P simply hayate didnt even throught that such perfect person would be interested in him......

but Hinas confession will rather be more intense... more emotional compared to Ayumu who jumped out of the bush and told normaly that she loves him >__> Hina is very shy and very throughtfull about others (after hearing that hayte with athena... she holded back her confession)... but eventually the pain of holding it back will pill up... and she will rather burst in tears, hug and confess....... that kind of confession will rather have different impact on hayate.... it might come to him

the pilling up emotions already started from the time when hayate told that he loves athena...... hina was constatnly thinking about it... was jelous of athena that she has haytes love....and at the end she was crying under her ranger-mask.... so if athena becomes more like a standard character it will start to pill up her emotions even more till it gets to max and she wont be able to hold back (heh what if she yells that she loves him yet he loves somone that disapperad for 10years... an like how can he still love that person who abondoned him for such long time and than suddenly appears in one day and everytihng returns how it was in past.... hmm more like frustration and saying what she thinks [without realizeing it ^^] )

many possibilities... but the most important thing is what hayate and athena will do now.... will they both return to japan (since this house is in ruins xD thx to hayate) and become standard characters..... or will athena stay in greece while hayate returns to japan (while they get to reunite in some later time... like athena has to watch over her buisness or house repair XD)...

well if athena goes together and ends up as standard character than it will have a big impact on all girls...... if athena stays in greece for the time eign... it might give only hina development (since she knows the truth) like hina noticeing that athena is not around hayate and starts to wonder what happened (like he got rejected at the end XD) and starts her plan to confess again :P I guess time will show ^^

fukarming

2010-03-08, 04:21

I don't really know why everyone keeps trying to speculate who Hayate will or will not be together. If HnG ends today, I am sure that no one will end up with Hayate's love interest. Remember that Hayate did not accept Ayumu is mainly because he "cannot provide for the one he love" So even if Athena ask Hayate to marry her, Hayate will reject Athena as he believes he is not good enough yet (not able to provide for her).

As of in the future..........no one knows. Give Hata sensei a 10 chapter arc and he can completely change the pairing......so is there any point to keep speculating now?

GlassesLady

2010-03-08, 09:27

... so I wonder why people cant accept this couple as the ending one ^^

This? Personally, I always thought it was because she shoved herself into the story halfway through as Hayate's Magical Kindergarten Girlfriend From Nowhere and fairly well tried to brainwash a hapless little boy into becoming her loveslave, but everytime I say stuff like that people yell at me, so I guess it must not have anything to do with it huh? ^_^

*shot*

musouka

2010-03-08, 14:01

This? Personally, I always thought it was because she shoved herself into the story halfway through as Hayate's Magical Kindergarten Girlfriend From Nowhere and fairly well tried to brainwash a hapless little boy into becoming her loveslave

Gee, but that's the best part!

babohtea

2010-03-08, 15:50

Erm. Wasn't she 6? It's not uncommon for kids to do stupid things like that at that age. We'll see.

Arabesque

2010-03-08, 15:56

fairly well tried to brainwash a hapless little boy into becoming her loveslave

This part I don't get at all. See, I can understand that many don't like her because she came in quite late, but brainwashing!? Where did she do that?

babohtea

2010-03-08, 19:04

Sorry that this is a little off the current topic of Athena, but I want to ask a question:

Does anyone think that Hayate's parents will someday make a re-appearance? I mean, the manga stresses the fact that they're probably still quite well, and Hayate's older brother is connected with them...

This is even more of a stretch, but maybe Hinagiku's parents as well? Either way, what do you think?

Koroshiya_Kame_13

2010-03-09, 00:26

Now Hayate's brother's appearance has been revealed, does anyone think they look alike (Hayate and his bro)? If not how come Midas King thought it was Hayate that cut his arm off when it was his brother?

xellos2099

2010-03-09, 01:53

Just read the new chapter: Spoiler

It look like Althena has angered the God, so she can't physical touch the stone, thus she is unable to leave the Royal Garden in the same manner that Hayate and his brother does. The only way for her to leave would be to have someone in procession of the stone to cut down one of the 365 tower of abrasax surrounding the garden, however, if they choose the wrong tower, the one who process the stone will die.

He also said that there are not many things in this world can be call justice, but for one who help a girl who is crying for help, there is no doubt it is a true form of justice. AS a man who walk the path of justice, there is no way that he would choose the wrong tower.

That was the real reason Athena didn't tell Hayate about it and say outside is boring, knowing him, he would do it with no hesitation and there is a really high chance for him to die over this. Athena love Hayate too much to left him die like this. She told Hayate's brother about it thinking there is no way for a stranger to risk death for her. He say he will choose the right tower for sure and proceed to beat down on King Midas. Afterward, we cut back to present and Athena said they successfully get out but afterward she fall asleep for a year and had no clue on who helped her over than the cross scar on his head.

In a sense, Athena and Hina are so MUCH alike. They pretend to act strong in front of the person they like and are willing to throw away their own dream and wish so the other won't be hurt by it.

Edge Meltdown

2010-03-09, 01:59

Just read the new chapter: Spoiler

It look like Althena has angered the God, so she can't physical touch the stone, thus she is unable to leave the Royal Garden in the same manner that Hayate and his brother does. The only way for her to leave would be to have someone in procession of the stone to cut down one of the 365 tower of abrasax surrounding the garden, however, if they choose the wrong tower, the one who process the astone will die.

That was the real reason Athena didn't tell Hayate about it and say outside is boring, knowing him, he would do it with no hesitation and there is a really high chance for him to die over this. Athena love Hayate too much to left him die like this. She told Hayate's brother about it thinking there is no way for a stranger to risk death for her. He say he will choose the right tower for sure and proceed to beat down on King Midas. Afterward, we cut back to present and Athena said they successfully get out but afterward she fall asleep for a year and had no clue on who helped her over than the cross scar on his head.

so i guess it's safe to say that yukariko died because of this.

zodanhko

2010-03-09, 10:37

Did you mean Yukariko entered the RG and got trap in there?

GlassesLady

2010-03-09, 21:26

kuro0009

2010-03-09, 22:07

musouka

2010-03-10, 13:45

Chapter 263, quick, one pass translation:

Page 01:

SIDE: Hayate's brother came rushing to Athena, who had been left alone in the castle!

ATHENA: I was calling?

HAYATE'S BRO: Yeah. So I'll grant your wish.

ATHENA: ... I see.

ATHENA: That's impossible.
ATHENA: I'm unable to leave this castle.

HAYATE'S BRO: Unable to leave?
ATHENA: That's right. I angered God, so he won't let me leave.

ATHENA: To go to and from this castle, you need a King's Jewel that still has its light.
ATHENA: But because I inccured God's wrath, I'm unable to touch that King's Jewel.

Page 02:

ATHENA: So I'm unable to leave.
ATHENA: Because I can't touch a King's Jewel.

ATHENA: Therefore it's impossible...
ATHENA: ...for you to grant my wish.

HAYATE'S BRO: ... I see...

HAYATE'S BRO: But saying you can't leave
HAYATE'S BRO: tells me that you want to leave.

Page 03:

ATHENA: ...

HAYATE'S BRO: If you said you didn't want to leave, then convincing you would probably be tough.
HAYATE'S BRO: Saying you *can't* is simpler.

HAYATE'S BRO: All I've got to do is find a way to get you out.
HAYATE'S BRO: Then everything will be settled.

Page 04:

ATHENA: As soon as I heard what he was saying, my anger started to boil.

ATHENA: I won't be swayed--
ATHENA: --by something like this.

ATHENA: I don't need...
ATHENA: ...a wish that won't be granted!

HAYATE'S BRO: So...
HAYATE'S BRO: Do you have a hint to help me get you out of here?
ATHENA: ...

ATHENA: So I thought, I might as well tell him what I didn't tell Hayate.
ATHENA: That way he'd understand how impossible it was.

ATHENA: "In the forest of the pillars of Abraxas, display the justice held by your sword. If done, the way will open."

HAYATE'S BRO: !?
HAYATE'S BRO: What's that supposed to mean?

Page 05:

ATHENA: It's a hint how to leave this place.
ATHENA: You know the forest when you game in? That's where the 365 pillars of Abraxas stand.
ATHENA: This is the Royal Garden, where greed and bonds are tested.

ATHENA: In order for someone to escape from this place after they've inccured God's wrath, someone with a King's Jewel must come to save them. They must resist the appeal to their greed the Power of Royalty and the other traps this castle offers them.
ATHENA: Then they must go, hand in hand, to the forest of pillars and cut one.
ATHENA: If they can, the correct path will be shown.

HAYATE'S BRO: ? What's with that?
HAYATE'S BRO: That's almost too easy.

ATHENA: If you choose the wrong pillar to cut...
ATHENA: ...the one holding the King's Jewel will die.

Page 06:

HAYATE'S BRO: DIE?!

ATHENA: Yes, the one holding the King's Jewel will be killed. I'm sure you saw those ruins of those rusted swords around the pillars.
ATHENA: They belonged to those that met that end.

ATHENA: There are 365 pillars, but only one is the right one!!
ATHENA: That means there's an only one in 365 chance that you'll live! Do you still have the courage to try?!

ATHENA: The people inside this place are precious to the people that come to rescue them, that's why they're willing to put their lives on the line.
ATHENA: But to the people inside, if the one coming to rescue them is precious, then of course they don't want them to die, so they won't tell them how they can be rescued!

HAYATE'S BRO: If you're too greedy, you can't save them. If your bonds are too deep, you can't allow yourself to be saved.
HAYATE'S BRO: I see. What an evil trap.

Page 07:

HAYATE'S BRO: But, couldn't you just
HAYATE'S BRO: tell someone that method and ask to be saved?

ATHENA: ... What?

HAYATE'S BRO: If it's someone random, all you have to do is trick them into helping you, right?

ATHENA: Of course I couldn't do something so terrible!

HAYATE'S BRO: Really? But if you didn't tell him, doesn't that mean you were considering tricking him?

ATHENA: !!

ATHENA: No...No, he just wasn't like you!

ATHENA: The person that came before you...
ATHENA: He was precious to me...

ATHENA: If I'd told him the conditions...
ATHENA: He's the type that would have said he'd do it for sure!

Page 08:

ATHENA: That's why I couldn't tell him!!
ATHENA: "Let's leave together!"

ATHENA: But I WANTED to!
ATHENA: I wanted to tell him "let's leave together!"

ATHENA: I wanted to tell him...
ATHENA: "Let's leave this castle and live together forever!"

ATHENA: But I couldn't say it!!
ATHENA: He was too important to me!!

ATHENA: When he told me that he wanted to live with me together outside, I was so happy...
ATHENA: So I thought maybe I should tell him the conditions...

ATHENA: It might have taken a little time, but...
ATHENA: We might have been able to figure out a way...a different way...

Page 09:

ATHENA: But it's over. I broke it.
ATHENA: It was my fault. I don't need to leave here any more...

ATHENA: So, just leave.
ATHENA: Take whatever you want and go.

HAYATE'S BRO: ...
HAYATE'S BRO: I see.

HAYATE'S BRO: If that's how things are...
HAYATE'S BRO: Let's go.

ATHENA: Huh?

HAYATE'S BRO: I understand what you want to say.
HAYATE'S BRO: I understand how difficult it is to leave, and why you're refusing to be helped.

ATHENA: If...If you really do...

Page 10:

HAYATE'S BRO: But I can hear your heart.
HAYATE'S BRO: It's always crying "save me."

ATHENA: Bu...but, if you choose the wrong pillar...
ATHENA: You'll die!

HAYATE'S BRO: Then I'll choose the right one.

ATHENA: ...
ATHENA: Eh?

HAYATE'S BRO: There's a crying girl...
HAYATE'S BRO: ...right in front of me.

HAYATE'S BRO: There aren't many things in this world that can be called justice, but...
HAYATE'S BRO: Having the desire to save a girl that's crying in front of you...is *definitely* justice!!

Page 11:

HAYATE'S BRO: And a man that has that sense of justice...
HAYATE'S BRO: Can do nothing but choose the right path!

ATHENA: ...wha--!

ATHENA: I-idiot!!
ATHENA: That's just sophistry, it won't work!

ATHENA: Leave me alone!
ATHENA: I've already decided to stay here alone by myself, forever!

ATHENA: That's more than enough...I...
ATHENA: I'll be here alone, I'll be here alone!!

HAYATE'S BRO: You've tried so hard, for all this time...
HAYATE'S BRO: All by yourself.

Page 12:

HAYATE'S BRO: But...
HAYATE'S BRO: You don't have to try so hard any more.

HAYATE'S BRO: Maybe what I'm saying is sophistry.

HAYATE'S BRO: Maybe...
HAYATE'S BRO: I will choose the wrong path.

HAYATE'S BRO: But right now, I want you to believe in me.

Page 13:

HAYATE'S BRO: I want to answer your call.

HAYATE'S BRO: I want to grant your wish.

HAYATE'S BRO: I want...
HAYATE'S BRO: To grant your wish!

Page 14:

ATHENA: I want to see him again...

HAYATE'S BRO: All right.
HAYATE'S BRO: Leave everything to me!!

Page 15:

HAYATE'S BRO: See...
HAYATE'S BRO: You heard the lady, monster.

MIDAS: GRAAAAAAAAAH!!

Page 16:

HAYATE'S BRO: Sorry.
HAYATE'S BRO: But now I'll open that path!!

ATHENA: And then...
ATHENA: The next thing I realized, I was outside the castle.

ATHENA: But from that moment on, I fell into a deep, year long sleep.
ATHENA: I don't know who that man was...

ATHENA: Really, who on earth was that man with the cross shaped scar on his forehead...

HAYATE: A cross shaped scar...
HAYATE: On his forehead?

Game8910

2010-03-10, 16:01

oh wow that was pretty good...Hayate's brother is pretty GAR

zibi88

2010-03-10, 17:01

oh wow that was pretty good...Hayate's brother is pretty GAR

yeah becouse he severed all bonds to those parents... so he grow to be a good man.... hayate was suffering duo those parents... and his brother never helped him (he mostly was helping only girls.. still not rescue his brother from those monsters was evil...)

musouka

2010-03-10, 18:22

Also, in case people are interested, Hata mentioned on his blog that the reason the priest's scar eventually faded away in the series is because he didn't want those two to get mistaken for one another and only recognized his error after the fact.

Game8910

2010-03-10, 18:35

primuler

2010-03-10, 19:04

Something interesting was posted in Hata's diary this week.

EDIT: Musoka said it already, but still.
Hata said the man with cross scar on the forehead is not the Father.
When he designed the character, he added the cross unconsciously so he erased it off afterwards. And the master of cafe Donguri seemed to have caused confusion too, but he is not Hayate's older brother either. What's on his forehead is hair, not scar.
Hata says that Hayate's brother is actually a gorgeous person. He wanted to let him act more, but then again, that would have thinned Hayate so he had to restrain himself.
And the Midas that Hayate's brother brought down is fully-fledged one, so it was very strong.
And it seems that the title of the next week's chapter is 'Bell chime spreads in the future'

So yeah, my guess is that Shiranui is Hayate's brother.

Game8910

2010-03-10, 19:13

Rah

2010-03-10, 19:17

Okay, fine. Like on MF, I'll question you guys here as well. Why would Hayate's brother be anyone else just because of his scar? It was already absurd that he'd be the perverted father, but the cat? Seriously? Come on.. he's a person just like any other, and has no relation to anyone else with a cross shape on their foreheads!

Just look how Shiranui acts! I pointed this out already on MF, but it freekin' peed on Hina's arm! And it's seriously mischievous as well! Oh, wait, wait, don't tell me.. something happened to him, and while in cat form he undergoes a personality change? Or, wait! He lost his memory...! Yesss... it's PERFECT! AHahahahahahaha!!!

*sigh*

.....

Hayata's sister is a normal guy.

^____^

zodanhko

2010-03-10, 21:23

Hayate's brother's words were pretty similar to what Athena told and taught Hayate...Where are the copyright issues?

oh god... -__-
that title is really....

But would this make Hayate's Bro stronger than Isumi?

Isumi said so herself that Midas alone isn't tough but with Athena's power that made him become frightening.

GlassesLady

2010-03-10, 21:31

if you don't like what they are doing then don't meddle with them..

But the meddling is the most fun part. :P

Anyway, having the word 'future' in the title of the chapter makes me think of what Hayate thought at the end of the chapter when Nagi broke the stone. Dunno what that'd lead to right now, though....

babohtea

2010-03-10, 23:47

Seriously, no matter what, I don't want a NagiXHayate for the ending.

Wolfnagi

2010-03-11, 01:48

Game8910

2010-03-11, 02:18

chapter 168 was released, the long wait is over...the gap is closed...haha those who waited now have almost 100 chapters to catch up on

Mentar

2010-03-11, 04:23

Chapter 263: And so I hope the UWW (Unlimited Water Works) arc is finally completed, for all eternity. Please. I guess I'm more or less solo on this, but the heavy-handed way how Hata tried to force me to recognize oh how sad and pitiful all this was again and again AND AGAIN had turned counterproductive on me a while ago already. Gotta say that I begin to understand the pain of people sick of the H.I.N.A. ED a while ago. Disclaimer before people complain: No, that's not Athena's fault, but Hata's.

Now finally back to the REALLY interesting parts. How are things going to shake out from now on?

Rah

2010-03-11, 07:15

Yes, yes, Hina this, Hina that, Athena this, Athena that, she deserves more, she deserves less...

Blah, blah, blah, blah....

You just don't like that your favorite girl isn't getting what you deem to be appropriate for what she did, for what she went through, or whatever. AKA proper, if not equal compensation.

Well, that's not how the world works, kay? Okay, mixing real life with manga is bad already, so I won't continue on that path. For now... haha...

Anyway, just bear with it, man. You can still look forward to a Hina confession, another birthday arc, perhaps a kiss, and definitely her and Yukiji's story arc. Ah, but that's probably not consolation enough, right? It has to be Hayate...

Well, I doubt that it will happen as things are going now, but it's possible that Hata ends it with a harem...

Or aren't you satisfied with that either?

I haven't actually read any of your profound discussions over the time I wasn't actively replying to this thread, so I don't know if I'm on the right track. Perhaps you already went over this, or maybe you just like to rant? I like doing that, too... ^____^

Oh, and I'll also add that I'm satisfied (more or less) with any outcome. Everything is fair in love and war.

Used Can

2010-03-11, 08:01

I begin to understand the pain of people sick of the H.I.N.A. ED a while ago
People hated that ED? How is that possible? That ED was awesome. Sometimes, I'd even sing it unconsciously.

Everybody, poe poe! (and then we lust over our cousins)

Game8910

2010-03-11, 09:02

People hated that ED? How is that possible? That ED was awesome. Sometimes, I'd even sing it unconsciously.

Everybody, poe poe! (and then we lust over our cousins)
you'd be surprised, in fact...there is a lot of people who disliked season 2 due to the heavy Hina focus (they prob never read the manga lol) I bet they'll love Athena even more

Rah

2010-03-11, 09:22

It's a mediocre anime / manga, anyway. It's not all that popular, so not many people really care, but there are extremists, right?

I wanna see Hata's house burn down after he pulls a Kannagi (or something similar).

:3

Used Can

2010-03-11, 09:25

you'd be surprised, in fact...there is a lot of people who disliked season 2 due to the heavy Hina focus
Really? I remember most people dropped the first season midway, and only returned for the "Hina Love" episode. In fact, I think season 2 was the only fair thing to do, considering Hina barely got any focus on the first season.

GlassesLady

2010-03-11, 09:49

Seriously, no matter what, I don't want a NagiXHayate for the ending.

You, sir, have failed. *thumbs up*

Arabesque

2010-03-11, 10:01

I bet they'll love Athena even more
A.T.A.N anyone?

Personally, I'd have love if the other girls had their own special ending in the H.I.N.A. fashion, all the while rotating each episode.

I wanna see Hata's house burn down after he pulls a Kannagi (or something similar).

You mean getting sick and taking a year hiatus after going to the hospital while leaving everything on a cliffhanger? Well, I'm sure the fans will understand (unless its the Togashi type of illness)

Xellos-_^

2010-03-11, 14:28

i was re-reading some of the older chpt (209) and i gotta say, Hata sensei got great taste in anime.

babohtea

2010-03-11, 14:44

You, sir, have failed. *thumbs up*

I don't understand what you are saying.
If you're saying that I fail because you like Nagi X Hayate, that's fine. However, do you mean that Nagi X Hayate is probably what's going to be the ending?

EDIT: Nvm. Took a look at your profile and saw "Nagi X Hayate Group", hahaha

______________________

About the manga series as a whole: I think Hata has just gotten better as the series went on. I seriously wanted to quit reading after the first 25 chapters, but I kept on going because seeing discussions on the recent chapters interested me. I actually finished all the way up to the current chapters in 3 weeks... and by reading in that short time I can see the huge difference between the first chapters and the recent ones.

The art has pretty much remained the same, but I can understand that you want to try keep the style consistent (although a lot of popular mangas like Naruto and One Piece have slowly gotten better art-wise as the series went on).

Even though Hata is bringing up a whole buttload of Chekov's gun plot devices to give the series continuity, I feel like Hata's being restricted by some of the ridiculous early development he gave the series. The series is so different right now from the original chapters that recent plot development, while not terrible, almost feels like Dues Ex Machina. The mood just didn't match. Either way, if Hata ever finishes this, I expect it to be drastically different from the beginning of Hayate. We'll see though, won't we?

GlassesLady

2010-03-11, 21:53

I don't understand what you are saying.
If you're saying that I fail because you like Nagi X Hayate, that's fine. However, do you mean that Nagi X Hayate is probably what's going to be the ending?

EDIT: Nvm. Took a look at your profile and saw "Nagi X Hayate Group", hahaha

That was a joke, man. Why do people always seem to take my jokes seriously? :/

Anyway, I should post something relevant.... like.... Say, was it just me, or were this week's raws a relatively long time in coming? I think I heard something about the usual raw provider site blowing up, but I don;'t know how true that is.... anyone know?

GDB

2010-03-11, 22:15

That was a joke, man. Why do people always seem to take my jokes seriously? :/

Anyway, I should post something relevant.... like.... Say, was it just me, or were this week's raws a relatively long time in coming? I think I heard something about the usual raw provider site blowing up, but I don;'t know how true that is.... anyone know?

The usual place water marked their raws this week. Most groups (outside of the Naruto and Bleach releases, at least) wouldn't want to release an obviously watermarked chapter.

babohtea

2010-03-11, 22:27

The usual place water marked their raws this week. Most groups (outside of the Naruto and Bleach releases, at least) wouldn't want to release an obviously watermarked chapter.

Actually, I saw a LOT of watermarked pages when I was reading the scanlations. Outside of narubleach too. In fact, almost everywhere; it really bugs me though. This is off-topic though.

Btw, Ch 253 was the most legit Hayate X Nagi, or even Hayate X Anyone scene I think this series has debuted so far. However, I'm not so sure that "most want to protect" = "love". What do you think o_o? Esp with the whole "look even our names match!" thing that Nagi has going for her.

Also, anyone notice how trite "be with me forever" is becoming in HnG? I mean, seriously; it kind of takes away from the meaning of it after the third or fourth time. I know little kids say "friends forever!", but I think the only one qualified by that criteria would be Nagi.

zodanhko

2010-03-11, 23:48

From MF credit to Orih
Chapter 264 spoiler pics:

http://imepita.jp/20100312/475690
http://imepita.jp/20100312/478530
http://imepita.jp/20100312/479490
http://imepita.jp/20100312/480690
http://imepita.jp/20100312/482600
http://imepita.jp/20100312/483720

Translations, translation, translations!!!!Please?

Edit:More pics:
http://imepita.jp/20100312/492350
http://imepita.jp/20100312/493770
http://imepita.jp/20100312/494960
http://imepita.jp/20100312/496390

musouka

2010-03-12, 00:14

I don't have time to do a full translation for the moment, but here are the key points.

- Athena assumed that Ikusa (Hayate's bro) made it out of the castle when she did, after she woke up from her year of sleep. But when King Midas re-manifested inside her, one of the things he brought up was that Ikusa might still be in the Royal Garden. Because of that, he was able to worm his way into synchronizing with her desire to gain a King's Jewel so she could make sure.

- But Hayate tells her not to worry, because he's sure that mysterious man was his older brother, Ikusa.

- The clock strikes twelve.

- The girls remark how it reminds them of Cinderella, ect, ect. But Nagi mentions that it seems to symbolize a new beginning more than the ending of something.

- Inwardly, Athena agrees. When Hayate tells her that she no longer needs a King's Jewel because he's sure his brother is safe, she thinks to herself that all she needs is... And this time, maybe forever is possible...

- When Hayate hears the clock strike, he mentions that Nagi must be getting worried.

- Athena stops her thought. She mentions that Nagi was the one that gave up her fortune, and asks what sort of girl his mistress is.

- Hayate says "Basically...she's always angry?" This wasn't the answer Athena was expecting, but Hayate goes on to elaborate in a really endearing way. Athena says that sounds difficult, and Hayate smiles and says it is. This makes Athena come to some sort of realization.

End spoiler pics.

- Athena says once she saw his smile, she understood. She tells Hayate she won't be coming back to Japan, and this is where they part. She says goodbye, and she was happy to have seen him.

zodanhko

2010-03-12, 00:29

Thanks. There's more. o0
More pics again:
http://imepita.jp/20100312/502000
http://imepita.jp/20100312/503110
http://imepita.jp/20100312/504461
http://imepita.jp/20100312/509780

Time to go back to Nagi. Athena's respond?

musouka

2010-03-12, 00:31

Thanks. There's more. o0

Time to go back to Nagi. Athena's respond?

As I said above, Athena says that she won't be going back to Japan, and she was happy she met him.

Some people will be thrilled. I'll wait to see what Hayate says in response next chapter, but if Athena leaves, my interest in the series will probably leave with her, unfortunately.

musouka

2010-03-12, 00:43

For those of you that dislike Athena and say she's never sacrificed anything, I'll translate this single page:

ATHENA: It's possible, if I cry, I might be able to change things.

ATHENA: But I've already decided not to ever hurt Hayate again.

ATHENA: "Don't go! Don't leave me! Stay with me forever! Please be my butler again!" If I gave voice to those feelings...

ATHENA: If I said those words... I know that it would hurt Hayate. So I'll keep them buried in my chest.

zodanhko

2010-03-12, 01:07

Will we finally hear what he has been wanted to tell her?
Will the ring finally works it's magic?

One of the moments which everyone has been waiting for. A great place for a cliff-hanger. -,-

orangejuicetang

2010-03-12, 01:10

Marathon, marathon, finally catching up the 95 chapters of Hayate. So exhausted now.

*Edit.

Also, I can't be the only person who was thinking "G Gundam!?" during that 'save Athena' sequence.

GDB

2010-03-12, 01:13

As I said above, Athena says that she won't be going back to Japan, and she was happy she met him.

Some people will be thrilled. I'll wait to see what Hayate says in response next chapter, but if Athena leaves, my interest in the series will probably leave with her, unfortunately.

So, Mentar once again predicted the eventual course of action. Granted, we got some long winded plot exposition in between that prediction and the outcome. Anyway, even if she's leaving I doubt this is the last we've seen of her. After all, there's still the mystery between her and Maria that needs to be resolved.

anselfir

2010-03-12, 01:47

finally. now can we get on with the golden path of maria please.

Game8910

2010-03-12, 01:47

I was half expecting something like this, but I thought Hayate would be the one to let go of Athena, not the other way around....although I still cant shake off the feeling that hayate wont stay quiet about this.

If Hayate manages to convince Athena then maybe my theory of her helping Nagi financially and lending her 1 of her homes to live in Japan can still live

Seitsuki

2010-03-12, 02:14

Hayate is never going to consciously ditch a girl. He's too much of a hero xD
Yeah I'm still hoping for an Athena ending too. She was introduced last but somehow has still managed to win my heart support somewhere along the way. With any luck this will be resolved well but I'm betting theres gonna have to be a lot of tears and angst along the way..

Mentar

2010-03-12, 06:10

For those of you that dislike Athena and say she's never sacrificed anything, I'll translate this single page:

*feels this arrow in his back* Ow ;)

Give me time to read the chapter first at least. But you'll remember that I said _before_ it happened that my opinion on Athena will be shaped by how she'll deal with the Nagi dilemma. And I said that if she genuinely releases Hayate to do his duty, she'll rise in my personal ranking quite a lot. This _is_ a major sacrifice, without a doubt.

I can understand your disappointment, but - for what little it's worth - having Athena leave now in this noble way actually _increases_ her end-run chances in my book. Because she remains as Hayate's "Suki na hito", even if he now proceeds to take care of Nagi. Had Athena made a grab for Hayate and thus implicitly positioned herself _against_ Nagi, I doubt that she would have stood a real chance in the long run. This way, she retains her special position and gains major karma points.

So, even if you do decide to phase out with Athena, I'd keep an eye on the progress anyway. If it happens the way it's indicated, we won't have seen the last of her.

Used Can

2010-03-12, 07:16

Guys, I appreciate the intention, but don't post links to imepita, they never last too long. (Read: I cannot see the pics. ;_; )

Anyway, having Athena leave is the best thing Hata can do, in my opinion. If he keeps her around, I don't think he'd be able to keep the series in the same way (i.e. romance-comedy with harem), taking into account the relationship Hayate and Athena have. But, all the same, I've got to say I'm satisfied with this arc. Whilst I feel Hata stretched it in many occasions, in the end I can say I've liked it, and I think this has been my favourite part in the whole manga.

zibi88

2010-03-12, 07:24

ehhhh when people take pic links from 2ch... than please reupload them on different servers.... since 2ch page delates pictures really fast so all those links are dead by now..... so cant see any pic of the spoiler.....

anyway Hayate was so screwed up...... 10years of waiting to reunite with athena... and the purpose he had no girlfriend....... and Athena just stops here >__< ....the same Hayte is left in a spot that he doesnt know if tis the end for him and athena forever so he can get a normal girlfriend.... or he will stay like for the past 10years... waiting for athena and wont get any girlfriend becouse of it..... personaly I dont want to see NagixHayate becouse its just wrong...... I root for AthenaxHayate or HinaxHayate..... cant see any different ending ^^ (athena sacrificed kinda more than nagi... she kinda backed off from hayate... like sacrificeing her own love...... while nagi only money that she did not worked for but she got from mother/grandfather and was spoiled by it (well hayate desroyed athenas house too :P)....

I would be WAY WAY better if she tagged along to Japan... her presence would develop all girls around hayate...

well Hina might start to dig what happened with Athena and the same learn that she stayed in greece and wont be comeing here.... so she might think this is her opportunity.... yet she has no idea that nagi crushed that stone and so she could have lost the inheritance (maybe athena calls mikado and says to give it back since mistress destroying the stone was not in the rules )

yet it would lead to where it started.... like nothing happened

leoblack9

2010-03-12, 07:45

Well looks like Hata is taking a break from all of these seriousness. Seems that we're going to have a couple of chapter's dose of lighthearted comedy.

Seems like a logical decision to me, to give way for other character development (as others pointed out) and possibly time to let the angst sink deep for the angsty fans (hmm, i'm partially affected, bleh).

Hopefully, the stage will be set for her next appearance, somewhere someplace Hayate will be in deep shit and its his turn to be saved ^.^

I would be WAY WAY better if she tagged along to Japan... her presence would develop all girls around hayate...

well Hina might start to dig what happened with Athena and the same learn that she stayed in greece and wont be comeing here.... so she might think this is her opportunity.... yet she has no idea that nagi crushed that stone and so she could have lost the inheritance (maybe athena calls mikado and says to give it back since mistress destroying the stone was not in the rules )

yet it would lead to where it started.... like nothing happened

If Hata did that, then the manga may be shortened as it would fasten the pace of the story (forcing the other girls to develop quick to catch up with her), although I do not know for how many chapters Hata plan to extend the series, hmm.

anyway Hayate was so screwed up...... 10years of waiting to reunite with athena... and the purpose he had no girlfriend....... and Athena just stops here >__< ....the same Hayte is left in a spot that he doesnt know if tis the end for him and athena forever so he can get a normal girlfriend.... or he will stay like for the past 10years... waiting for athena and wont get any girlfriend becouse of it..... personaly I dont want to see NagixHayate becouse its just wrong...... I root for AthenaxHayate or HinaxHayate..... cant see any different ending ^^ (athena sacrificed kinda more than nagi... she kinda backed off from hayate... like sacrificeing her own love...... while nagi only money that she did not worked for but she got from mother/grandfather and was spoiled by it (well hayate desroyed athenas house too :P)....

He has a promise to protect Nagi, and it will span until 40 years, so 40 years being single may be hard for a normal person, but with Hayate's fortitude we might as well see him as a successful 56 year old virgin butler ^.^

Rah

2010-03-12, 07:55

It would be a foolish mistake to let her go now. Especially this way. She can easily fit together with the group, even if they don't do anything love-orientated, though perhaps Hata doesn't have the capacity to imagine the scenario without at the same time messing everything up between the other girls (like they even stand a chance, hah!).

1. They part
2. Athena turns around, and starts to walk away; Hayate grabs her hand, and hugs her tightly, conveying his feelings...
3. They make some lame promise that they'll see each other again sometime...

-_-

Come on, just introduce Athena as a normal girl in the cast! The normal cast (even if you include Fumi & Sharna) is getting boring. Hina won't do anything at this point, Ayumu will just hope for all eternity, and the others are all bakas anyway.

zibi88

2010-03-12, 08:14

yeah since its really boring when its allways the same:

1) nagi plays games and goes into manga/anime referance in her talk
2) Isumi getting lost in every possible place
3) Maria beign a normal maid....
4) the girls tio... pranks, teasing hayate
5) Ayumu liveing with all that hope that hayate will love her...
6) Hina returning to her seriousness as president of hakuo >__>

Hata already overused all of those soooo much that its already boring.... Athena kinda gived a refreshment to the story and the plot somehow moved further...

and what now... Hayate is even more obligated to watch over nagi....so he wont be able to get another girl... seriously its more like a curse than life.... you cant do what you like becouse there is a girl with 1sided crash that thinks hayate loves her (and not that he is doing his work and has no romantic interest inyounger girls.. since it gives the perophile impression)... and what she did will force him to remain at her place even throught he doesnt love her that way...

Well I doubt that Athenas current disapperance will do any better.... and bring the comedy aspect.... its rather immposible to revert back... becouse Hina is depressed... Ayumu i depressed too after learning the truth.....we dont know what will happen with Nagi and Maria as she crushed that stone if they are forced to leave the mansion will this be pointed as comedy... or more like a drama (hayate will feel depressed that its his fault that this happened)

now mostly Hina will be depressed becouse of what she saw with Athena and Hayate... she might think that they are now lovers or something....she might start to dig the truth of what happened with athena (but from hideing sinde she was disguised as the hero..)

so I dont see returning to the comedy aspect that fast... the drama will change its form from Athena-Hayate to Hinagi or nagi who lost her moeny...

Sadly I really hoped that athena would be made into standard character (besides what happened with that ring... well they are not adults yet so maybe in future they will end up together as they made the promise before god in RG :P)... since I wont survive if they return again to the Nagi-slacking off- playing games all day- ect.

SaintessHeart

2010-03-12, 08:32

The plot is probably going to develop in Hayate's brother's direction. Cross shaped scar on his head = Shiranui?

musouka

2010-03-12, 10:36

I can understand your disappointment, but - for what little it's worth - having Athena leave now in this noble way actually _increases_ her end-run chances in my book.

Nah, it's not really disappointment because she's not going to break the series and win at this point in time, since I strongly argued that they weren't going to become a couple either. It's the idea of "goodbye forever" that makes me sort of sad, because Athena is one of the main reasons I read this series. I love the Nagi and Hayate interactions too, but those are only rarely as serious as they were in this arc.

Also, I wasn't really singling you out, honest. You might have been one of the ones arguing for Athena's selfishness, but you're hardly the only one that dislikes her for those reasons.

Jiraya2

2010-03-12, 13:24

Oh my God ...
At last, this tiring, boring week was coming to an end and then, I read THAT!
I hate this chapter ...
I cannot accept this kind of ending for A-tan!
Well, that is a so noble sacrifice, nevertheless, if she thinks Nagi can be a better girlfriend for Hayate than herself, she should right now call the police because it is a clear crime of pedophilia!

Ok, I will wait for Hayate's answer.

By the way, I at last read some older chapters which were not easy to find on the web, and I came to the conclusion that Hayate is able to go through the past (and maybe the future) because of the power of Royalty Nagi's mother used.
Yukariko did something to protect Nagi and for some unknown reason, Hayate was chosen to be her shield.
Moreover, I saw a picture of Nagi's father. He looks like somebody we know, don't you thnik so?

Argh!
Please Hayate, do not let A-tan leave like that!

aldw

2010-03-12, 14:40

I don't think the author will simply let Athena leave just like that, for there are some things that haven't been covered yet:

1) What happened to Hayate's bro
2) Maria's connection to Athena and Hayate

At the very least this needs to be answered, so Athena will be staying for quite a while IMHO.

babohtea

2010-03-12, 15:17

This is the gutsiest thing that Hata has ever done. Sure, there are more gutsy things (like moving towards Hayate X ANYONE), but this is at least a movement somewhere. At the rate Hata is building up popularity around all the girls, and keeping them all involved, this will turn into a lame, open ended Harem ending.

Not saying I liked it (I like Athena a lot), but I'd rather Hata send Athena packing rather than adding her to the harem and keeping the status quo with silly gags. Either send her away or start getting Hayate married; that's the way a manga should go rather than milking character popularity.

I don't think the author will simply let Athena leave just like that, for there are some things that haven't been covered yet:

1) What happened to Hayate's bro
2) Maria's connection to Athena and Hayate

At the very least this needs to be answered, so Athena will be staying for quite a while IMHO.

This can be answered through other characters, though.

zibi88

2010-03-12, 15:38

well we still dont know hayates anwer.... Athena says goodbye... but hayate didnt answer to this.... he waited soooo long for the to meet her... so he might make her come so she wont be alone...

Right now we see goodbye hayate... but its only athena talk... hayate must say what he thinks... at least confess his feelings like he held to the (I love her...) for all this time...

I dont want A-tan to disappear like that... becouse she shows funny emotions (like with that hair going into "??" and big eyes [Eee?] as she asked the question what person is his mistress...)... she is more energetic and lively...

so personaly part of the manga for me will die as she disappers and gets replaced with Nagi (she is boring for me..... and her "love" reaks of pedophilia....), and again another good, cute character (a-tan) with big boobs disappears >__> and we will stick with all those boards again....

from now on I kinda dont see where the manga will go and what new it can give withotu repeateing over and over and over the same thing.... A-tan gived something new....... while from nagis point I kinda dont see any new stuff

its just my personaly opinion everyone has their own...... but I dont like the pairing NagixHayate... first its a crime... its boring... there are other more interesting girls...

Rah

2010-03-12, 15:49

Uhm, as I said all over the place (here and MF, though mostly MF), Athena is too important to leave.

Reasons:

1. Needs to repay Nagi (some view this as a must, while I don't really consider it something important, but.. well, it's a reason.. haha +1)
2. Hayate needs to find out her true feelings, and confess to her
3. She has a past with Maria, that without her presence can't be properly revealed. Or can it?
4. She was all alone for these 10 years. People only saw her for her money, and wanted only that. She was constantly betrayed. Wouldn't it be time for her to make some real friends?
5. HnG is getting stale. Athena is a good change.

Let me fix something for you, tea-tan. You said: "This is the gutsiest thing Hata has ever done.". Well, no, it isn't. What would be harder is to actually use her as a member of the usual cast from now on, and keeping it together!

Removing her does nothing. Everything returns to what it was, except for Nagi's situation, but that will be solved some way... Hayate fixed his problem, and only Hina, Sakuya, Isumi, and.. I can't think of who else know about it. Nothing changes. Especially not with Hina, since if Hayate doesn't find out Athena's feelings, Hina won't be able to do anything, or do you think that she might go for it if Athena doesn't answer? Like, it's her loss, right?

6. Umm, I'm basically repeating 2. here, but Hayate still needs to confess.
7. Cinderella parody (credit to Ken-chan, and whomever came up with it first) - The clock struck midnight, Hayate still has Athena's ring (the one he gave her when they were kids). Think of the ring as the shoe. Hmhm...

What else? Hmm...

Well, 8. could be that she's connected to Hayate's brother, and would be nice of her to see him again, and properly thank him, eh? I wonder how much he's changed over 10 years.... (don't tell me that he's really Shiranui.. lol.. absurd...).

9. Oh, let's not forget Izumi. She kissed Hayata, and Athena might recognize her, and start something interesting. Hehehe.... I'd certainly like to see that!

Well, I don't know what else to add at the moment. I just think that she'd be a refreshing new addition to the cast.

Hata can always come up with some way to deter Hayate and Athena from going in a relationship, right? A personality change, perhaps the promise he made to Nagi to watch over her forever? Or what if Nagi would have to allow it first? And you know how stubborn she is, and how much she likes Hayate...

Maybe something else? Hmmm....

Game8910

2010-03-12, 15:54

so rah why did you and pretty much every active poster on MF just get banned? xD

oh yeah btw...I bet when they return to Japan Nagi's home will be sealed or something

babohtea

2010-03-12, 15:56

I think you misread what I meant by "gutsy". From some standpoints, it's the easy way out (keeping a series going is harder than letting it end). However, if the editorial notes and Hata's consistent breaking of the fourth wall say anything, he desperately want(ed)s to keep the series going. Dropping Athena can be a step away from the status quo, or it might be one backwards.

For Hata, whose previous patterns of behavior shows hints of maintaining the status quo in order to throw out more gags and keep Hayate serialized, a step towards ending the series would be gutsy.

Btw, do you really understand the suffix "tan"? I don't understand it, I assume it's a very informal one but I haven't found a very specific explanation anywhere yet.

aldw

2010-03-12, 15:57

Rah

2010-03-12, 16:11

I have no idea, tea-tan. And I really don't CARE. Hahahahah!!!

Anyway, don't think how he wants to orchestrate things, but how, if he goes through with it, he basically throws away all of the build up of the Greece arc. Eternal love for Athena, Eternal protection for Nagi. Nuff said...

Else he changed his mind. Eh, details. I just wanna see more people suffer.. Hahahah!!

Athena's presence would do exactly that! Nagi, Ayumu, Hina.. all down in the dumps!

Ahh... perfection!

Anyway, I think I've said all I wanted to say regarding that. We'll just have to see what Hayate does in 265, and that's that.

But Hayate is really a... eh, I don't have an appropriate word for him, but it's like all his desire to save her, to see her, to be with her, etc.. that was building up for the past 10 years has been reduced to ash!

He saved her, and he's satisfied? Come now, don't joke around! Confession time! Cinderella style on his knees!! Whahahah!!

babohtea

2010-03-12, 16:15

You're crazy. Your signature should've warned me.
yeah.. we'll see in one week. can't wait, this may cause me to drop the series...

btw, what did happen at MF?

hinakatbklyn

2010-03-12, 17:22

Athena's presence would do exactly that! Nagi, Ayumu, Hina.. all down in the dumps!

Ahh... perfection!

Anyway, I think I've said all I wanted to say regarding that. We'll just have to see what Hayate does in 265, and that's that.

But Hayate is really a... eh, I don't have an appropriate word for him, but it's like all his desire to save her, to see her, to be with her, etc.. that was building up for the past 10 years has been reduced to ash!

He saved her, and he's satisfied? Come now, don't joke around! Confession time! Cinderella style on his knees!! Whahahah!!

(1) Doesn't hurt one bit to have more competition to try and win Hayate over If Athena sticks around for awhile longer. That way, if they decide to end the series with Hina on top (no idea yet how he'll pull that one off), it will be that much sweeter (Even more perfect, but I'm showing alittle bias).

(2) If Hayate was interested in Athena, there's no way he would risk his life to save her just so they could part ways. If Hata has no room for Athena, slowly work her out of the series, not completely write her out in one or two chapters. But if Athena was Hayate's choice, He would of first saved her then confess on the spot.

zodanhko

2010-03-12, 20:12

Well, the Greece arc was very enjoyable til the end with all Hayate and Athena moments I thought couldn't have happened. The waiting weeks after weeks with some stalling here and there was worth it. I don't mind if Athena were to have a temporarily disappearance with the comedy returns; my attention span could last for at least some weeks with the comedy chapters until I drop it again... If Athena were to disappear completely, I guess that's the end of me with this manga.

Hell, Don't even know her age yet, how can she be gone? That's bullshit =D

But if Athena was Hayate's choice, He would of first saved her then confess on the spot.
He is in quite a tough spot right now.

babohtea

2010-03-12, 21:13

These next few chapters had better be significant. I really hope there isn't a major cliffhanger staring us in the face throughout the whole next ark.

That would suck.

Used Can

2010-03-13, 00:42

I agree that just dropping Athena at this point would suck, but as I said before, I don't know how can Hata keep Athena and the status quo at the same time, unless he decides to revert Hayate and Athena's relationship to just friendship - which would basically render most of this arc useless, in my opinion.

It'd be really gutsy of him to break the status quo, have Hayate get a girlfriend, and then have the other girls play another role, rather than possible love interests. However, I highly doubt his editors would allow him to do so, and I'm sure a good amount of fans wouldn't like it. So, I think it'd be quite understandable not to change the way things are, since in the end, this is his job.

AmIaNeRd

2010-03-13, 03:04

Jiraya2

2010-03-13, 03:42

IMO, there is no way A-Tan will not be back sooner or later.
There is ONE giant reason for that: to defeat the final boss, her powers are needed.
Mikado was and is playing with everybody like puppets, and it is clear for me his powers are something to be scared.
Moreover, A-Tan is the character who knows Maria's past and there is not a single chance the action will not take place one time again in the Royal Garden. And for that, A-tan must be here.

If I had to make a bet, I would say Hayate is not going to confess to A-Tan but he will invite her to Nagi's place ("You do not have any house anymore, so come with me! Ojou-sama is a very nice girl!").
I would like something like, when A-Tan will be looking at Nagi; "Oh, she is only a CHILD! I worried for NOTHING! I have got a good idea: let's adopt her, Hayate!"
It would be fun if A-Tan was not considering Nagi as a rival, but instead only looks at the other girls, who are quite a lot!

zibi88

2010-03-13, 03:44

I think as others have said for now Athena should go out of the picture as her going back with Hayate to Japan would kind of bring up issues with the other girls.. already deciding a definite partner for him now would for me change this series a whole lot.

the main issue here is that manga is already takeing long... and I dont see much of new stuff to draw that were not used by the author already..... what go back to japan like nothing happened and continue the peacefull life filled with comedy....... seriously im not native to expect soemthing like that becouse its impossible.... now hayate might suffer of parting with athena after he waited soooo logn for her.... and what after 1night puff 10years of waiting and no girlfriend go to shit.... seriosuly cutting out athena like that is just wrong

If she had no bigger role here than why the hell hata created her and the whole end of world arc if he was goting to toss her aside like that after such effort from hayates side...

personaly I think that cutting her out now will be even more devasteteing in result at the end....the "bring an issue with other girls".... so what now hayate will get even more along with the girls and at the end of series athena reapears and hell gets lose... it would be more human to make her stay in Japan and allow her witness hayates getting along with "lots" of girls.... so not only girls would develop but Athena herself would gain some knowlage and she herself would have to work hard to get hayates feelings (and not I was first so he is mine)

anyway there is still hope... I mean at the end athena says goodbye and im glad I was able to meet you again.... while hayte is kinda shocked and goes all "Eh !"
so here is a possibility that he will tell her to come becouse he doesnt want her to be alone or something..... so she tags along or she says that she will come to japan later...... so kinda all girls would gain development... and the best will win at the end....... since its kinda unfair that Nagi has huge ammount of money (I guess athena will call mikado to cancel the deal of destroying stones since hayate did not break the rule which says mistress destroying the stone XD) so she can afford stuff that normal people cant so hayate is happy..... while other girls like Ayumu or Hina as kinda poor dotn stand a chance here....

so for me it would be better if there were love rivals like rich vs rich + poor vs poor ^^ Nagi vs Athena and Ayumu vs Hina..... in order to get hayate..... it would be good if nagi had another super rich rival... that would show that money alone is not enought ^^ (so nagi would develop more... since there is older,cuter,richer,better body and super smart girl that wants hayate for herself :P so a powerfull enemy)

leoblack9

2010-03-13, 04:02

So do I sense a 10-30 chapter long comedy cooldown arc? Seems that Hata wants to go back to light hearted stuff I suppose.

Though I wouldn't want HnG to become a 500+ chapter long (with like only 100+ serious chapters) comedy fest (which tends to be boring now).

Used Can

2010-03-13, 09:25

Though I wouldn't want HnG to become a 500+ chapter long (with like only 100+ serious chapters) comedy fest (which tends to be boring now).
Well, HnG was a comedy-fest for a bit more than 160 chapters, since it is a comedy manga. Serious chapters like these are atypical (even if this arc was quite long). In fact, many people even argue that the serious chapters seem force. Personally, even if I have enjoyed these serious chapters more than the other ones, I cannot say those claims have no basis. So, Hata going back to comedy is not odd at all.

I wouldn't mind if he starts switching now and then between comedy and serious chapters, thought.

babohtea

2010-03-13, 10:32

Can speaks truth. Even though old old plot devices like Santa, Hayate's first girlfriend, Himegami and Hayate's brother resurfaced, remember that Hata was afraid the series wouldn't even last 100 chapters. I can say that a lot of these future developments were planned, but Hata might not have thought of using them until chapter 160+.

It all depends on fan letters. If it turns out that pure comedy is more popular, Hayate might as well continue as it has been. There's also a chance that Hata wants to try something new; he'll either switch HnG to something more serious or he'll finish funny-HnG and start a new series. We'll see.

aldw

2010-03-13, 12:42

Reading Negima, Akamatsu alternated both the serious and comedic elements at certain points, Hata doing something similar makes good sense plotwise.

AmIaNeRd

2010-03-13, 14:29

Yep, I do like it like this too, gives a lighthearted feeling for me yet I also get the good part of a moving storyline.. unlike some series I knew *cough* to-love-ru *cough*

LeaD36

2010-03-13, 18:43

so i finally caught up with the latest 100 chapters of this manga. I must say, i loved the first season of the anime for all the laughs and giggles it got out of me, the second season was rather meeeh, but okay.

So i read "The End of the World" Chaps in advance, and besides ch 264 i´m kinda content with how things developed. The serious tone is refreshing compared to the usual comedy and bits of romance hayate tends to have like every second week, albeit being totally oblivious to it most of the time.
So what´s going to happen to Nagi?
Cross shaped scar = Shiranui lmao? Good thinking, and an extremely nice plot-element twist that was introduced earlier on right there. This might actually give the overall story a nice cohesion.
In one of the more recent chapters there was something about Chiharu and Nagi that´s supposed to happen to them, so i´m wondering what that´ll be?
And Nagi´s mom got into the Royal Garden, figures. A woman loved by the gods =/
Will Yukiji get confessed to by the Gundam Teacher after that speech :o?
What´ll happen to A-tan and Hayate´s relationship? How will it effect Hamster and Hina? I´m smelling some serious Yuri vibes! Poor Miki-chan always tried so hard, yet she didn´t get closer to Hina <.<
Might Sakuya be falling for Machina?
And wtf has Himegami to do with the entire story? His name keeps randomly popping up and everything. Give the fellow some goddamn paneltime, or even an arc or 2.

So many questions, but i hope Hata won´t return to the lame comedy-only arcs. I´d love to have a more or less serious plot with comedic elements though!

HnG is still way up there in my fav manga list =/

AmIaNeRd

2010-03-14, 00:45

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-14, 00:50

To answer your question about himegami..

I think his importance was that he was Nagi's butler before Hayate, so the connection between him and Hayate is sort of shown there. I think something happened and he left/got fired but to me Himegami's fate with nagi makes you wonder what Hayate will do. Will he really stay with Nagi and protect her forever as her butler or will he someday leave her behind (for another girl maybe?.. hmm )?

While we don't know Himegami's personality, or why he left Nagi's employment, Hayate has promised his unending service as Nagi's protector. If he ever chooses a girl other than Nagi, Nagi will be needed to accept it or he won't have the relationship. No matter how much he might want it.

babohtea

2010-03-14, 02:08

While we don't know Himegami's personality, or why he left Nagi's employment, Hayate has promised his unending service as Nagi's protector. If he ever chooses a girl other than Nagi, Nagi will be needed to accept it or he won't have the relationship. No matter how much he might want it.

Himegami also promised to be with Nagi forever. I'm not exactly sure where, but I know it was referenced a couple of times. As of now, Nagi's relationship with Hayate needs some development even if it's not romantic; Nagi's real benefit to Hayate was her fortune, and she didn't even think anything of it.

WhiteWings

2010-03-14, 02:17

I thought Himegami was forced out for betraying Nagi. I am not sure how deep the bond was between Nagi and her last butler considering that they seemed to be a good deal of friction between the two.

But the bottom line is there is a chance that Nagi might feel Hayate is leaving her just as Himegami did (though for different reasons) and Nagi certainly won't take it well even if Hayate claims that he will stay with her while at the same time say he'll be with another girl if that happens.

Either way, after all that has been going on Athena should stay around for some time at least to keep things interesting. Putting real life logic in manga or anime isn't always feasible but if that girl just drops out of the picture completely for even just a little while just after all that chaos... well then I can say for sure that the manga is going to go nowhere.

Let her stick around for a while before even letting her go off for a bit to who knows where.

babohtea

2010-03-14, 02:22

...*snip*
Not to disagree with your Himegami theory completely, but there are a couple of points that should be considered:

*Nagi was upset when Wataru mentioned Himegami quitting due to Nagi's selfishness; not angry, but more sad. It seems like it has some truth in it.
*Himegami, Athena, and Ojisan are all linked.
*Nagi definitely seems like the type of person who would say Himegami "betrayed" her when the situation was much more complex than that. For instance, Himegami may have been trapped, psychologically manipulated or maybe he faced a situation similar to Hayate's current one. All of these I can easily see Nagi responding with "YOU TRAITOR".

Used Can

2010-03-14, 05:43

Himegami also promised to be with Nagi forever.
I think she was talking about Hayate in that scene. If you remember, when he travelled to the past, he told her he'd always protect her, but then he disappeared (i.e. he went back to the present).

Ratsel Feinschmecker

2010-03-14, 08:47

I think she was talking about Hayate in that scene. If you remember, when he travelled to the past, he told her he'd always protect her, but then he disappeared (i.e. he went back to the present).

do not tell me that hayate is himegami

fu, nagi was talking about a certain butler leaving her and breaking that promise

it can be hayate, it can be himegami

who knows?

Mentar

2010-03-15, 05:18

Okay, so - how are things going to develop from now on? Share your guesses and predictions!

It's not quite easy this time. If my gut feeling is correct, Hayate won't fight hard to bring Athena along. It's just how he operates, he's very much of an interpersonal retard ^_^;

I haven't read 264 yet, but - Hayate never confessed to Athena in any way, did he? I wonder if he'll manage to transcend the "I came to rescue you". But somehow, I worry that he won't, at least not in a really meaningful way.

If Athena doesn't return to Japan, the collision with Nagi will be avoided or at least postponed. We'll get a "you did what you wanted to do? Great! now let's return" kind of non-resolution and return. Nagi will not be aware of Athena or Hayate's feelings for her. The Nagi side of the arc will probably have 1-2 fun chapters first, and then switch to "aftermath of the broken stone".

Hina - I'm already laughing. I believe that she'll try to emotionally disentangle from Hayate, since in her mind, he made his choice. But I wouldn't be surprised if she'd have trouble shaking off her feelings, and I particularly expect her to become mad at Hayate for becoming "illoyal to Athena", very much like she was mad at him for being a playboy when she thought he was dating Ayumu. So, I suspect that her frustrating closet romance will resume ;)

I do NOT expect her to break the news to Nagi, at least not consciously and not anytime soon. And she's the only one (sans Isumi, who wouldn't dabble in these issues in the first place) who knows the truth so far. I wonder if she'll tell Ayumu... probably yes, but will Ayumu ask the right questions?

That's my rough outline. What do you guys think?

Game8910

2010-03-15, 05:31

any of your points could happen....at this stage Hata can create any kind of crazy plot out of this...

dammit my theory to make Athena be the one to give Nagi a place to live (temporary) is crumbling if Hayate doesnt stop her

Rah

2010-03-15, 09:54

Well, I can't help but agree to think your way, Mentar. They'll probably part ways. Though her expression on the last page looks really down, and her decision was really abrupt, Hayate... like you said.... is...

A moron.

Again, a recap of events in 264:

1. Hayate tells her that his brother is ok.
2. She's relieved to hear that.
3. Clock strikes midnight, and he remembers that he has to go back to Nagi.
4. She asks him about his relationship with Nagi.
5. He somewhat happily replies.
6. She sees the carefree / happy expression on his face.
7. He tells her that he has to go back.
8. She immediately connects the dots, and wants to stop him from leaving her.

And now the fun part...

She yells, "Hayate!", grabs him, but then she rethinks things over. She doesn't want to take his happiness away, she's still blaming herself that that's the only thing she ever does...

And so, she "quietly" tells him that they'll part ways.

I'll repeat this since it's fun to do so. Hayate must be a total imbecile not to understand the situation, not to at least guess why she's acting this way.

If he'd look her directly in the eyes and ask her if she really wants to do that, she'd probably break down. But he won't do that. Oh, no, no, no....

Right now, I believe that he'll go with the "promise" thing.

Like, he'll say...

"I just have to check up on Nagi, and I'll be right back. There's still something I have to tell you, so please wait for me."

YEAH, RIGHT!! She's not gonna wait!!

It's the typical ending where the girl leaves thinking it's best that way, and the innocent hero comes back searching for her only to find a note saying: "Dear Hayate, we've.. bla bla bla.... insert emo stuff here"

If you're not gonna stay with her, at least properly break up! Hata, decide already, dammit!

The only other path I see that's possible is something related to the ring, the Cinderella parody, his confession, etc... but they still won't end up together. Again, it ends with a "promise" to meet some other time. Perhaps after he's fulfilled his obligations to Nagi..?

*sigh*

Yeah, in short, no matter if he confesses or not, all I can see is it ending with a "promise" to meet again, or some other thing...

Promises, promises, promises.. dammit....

It's like he has to conclude his relationships with all the other characters before he can find true love. I don't see why Athena can't just join the others, and take part in the every day events, one way or another (make friends, cause misunderstandings, you know..). She'd be a fun addition, even though her relationship with Hayate would have to be placed on hold for things to work out that way (or is there a different solution?).

Ah, whatever....

NaweG

2010-03-15, 10:12

Heck, I'm half expecting the next chapter to start with Hayate suddenly sitting up in his bed, realizing it was all a dream, but also realizing what he must do...

Ratsel Feinschmecker

2010-03-15, 11:40

fu athena will be gone
at least for only a few chapters or so
she will be out of the picture until midas
is out of her body for good
that must be the reason heck we still dont know
if athena herself will really leave or not
next time she's back athena is now herself without
some boney dude inside her

babohtea

2010-03-15, 14:10

Midas is already out. That was a flashback.

Ratsel Feinschmecker

2010-03-15, 14:34

Midas is already out. That was a flashback.

fu is that right
i was merely following Game8910's blog
and it says there or by him that midas is still inside athena
guess in order to eradicate skelly dude is to go to the source
go back to royal garden and seal him there
makes sense why athena is saying goodbye
she is saying goodbye for now and will return again as athena only
without midas inside her once and for all

babohtea

2010-03-15, 15:56

@Rah: this isn't over yet, so they may properly break up or end up together after all. However, I agree. Hata needs to stop buying time D:

zodanhko

2010-03-16, 00:07

If it's over for Athena, I think it'd be over for Hina and Ayumu long time ago. It's not over until it's over. In this case, I guess it's not over until Hayate and "a girl" are proclaimed to be a couple regardless of how great their feelings are for one another.

So, maybe it's doable to have Hayate and Athena to realize each others' feelings and continue to have those feelings without Hata specifically stated that they are going out or,at least, having them hold onto those feelings little further (=D) which may change Athena's mind. It's pretty much the same scenario as it is right now. Well, as long as Nagi doesn't know about their relationship. For the love of all that's good, confess already...

GlassesLady

2010-03-16, 20:26

By the way, didn't someone post a full translation of the dialogue in the chapter based on the spoiler pics a while back? I can't find it.

Strygwyr

2010-03-17, 09:26

Today's the new chapter is coming out :D, can't wait.

AmIaNeRd

2010-03-17, 23:43

Same... it's been so hard skipping the posts that have the entire spoiler of the chapter on it... must.. resist.. still!! :D

Motor Bug2005

2010-03-18, 08:49

Early spoilers for Chapter 265 have been posted on MF courtesy of Pablito15:

http://forums.mangafox.com/showpost.php?p=3679597&postcount=6389

babohtea

2010-03-18, 10:28

Early spoilers for Chapter 265 have been posted on MF courtesy of Pablito15:

http://forums.mangafox.com/showpost.php?p=3679597&postcount=6389

I'm a little disappointed. It's not real closure to me until both characters are completely honest with themselves. Hayate's done his part, but Athena is still hiding the fact that she's doing this because she doesn't want to hurt Hayate. If she told him everything she was thinking still rejected him, I'd be fine with it. It's not so much the fact that Athena doesn't "win" or that she's being self-sacrificial, but the fact that it still feels like she's trying to hide from Hayate. That's not real closure; there are still unexpressed feelings. I think honestly it's better to be honest than kind, at least when dealing with people close to you.

Well, the Greece arc is over. At least I know what happens; I'm probably done speculating about HnG for a while though. (I read HnG because I saw Athena previews). Who knows if something interesting like Athena will pop up again?

(I don't mean the character, because she's probably not gone gone. I mean the situation surrounding her appearance)

Strygwyr

2010-03-18, 10:43

Early spoilers for Chapter 265 have been posted on MF courtesy of Pablito15:

http://forums.mangafox.com/showpost.php?p=3679597&postcount=6389

;~; gah....at least Greece arc was cute.

musouka

2010-03-18, 12:29

I'm a little disappointed. It's not real closure to me until both characters are completely honest with themselves. Hayate's done his part, but Athena is still hiding the fact that she's doing this because she doesn't want to hurt Hayate.

Well...

It's obvious, looking at the scans, that Hayate's confession is something he's saying in response to what Athena said, so I think it's likely that she came clean to him, since he's saying "I love you too!"

The bittersweet thing about this for me is the part where she thinks that this is the last time she'll make him cry. I guess she counted all those times when he was a crybaby against herself too.

Well, after this, there's really no hope for Athena. Since Hayate's last thoughts are about "when I can once again truly tell someone I love them", or less literally "when I can fall in love again." Meaning he's given up too.

Ah, well. I'm sure she'll show up again, but I think my interest in the series will probably hibernate until then. I give props for Hata allowing the feeling to be mutual, and doing the reset in the best way possible, considering the circumstances, but I'm not really invested in fun-fun times at Hakuo unless his joke meter has recharged to full after all this seriousness.

babohtea

2010-03-18, 13:23

Well...

It's obvious, looking at the scans, that Hayate's confession is something he's saying in response to what Athena said, so I think it's likely that she came clean to him, since he's saying "I love you too!"

The bittersweet thing about this for me is the part where she thinks that this is the last time she'll make him cry. I guess she counted all those times when he was a crybaby against herself too.

Well, after this, there's really no hope for Athena. Since Hayate's last thoughts are about "when I can once again truly tell someone I love them", or less literally "when I can fall in love again." Meaning he's given up too.

Ah, well. I'm sure she'll show up again, but I think my interest in the series will probably hibernate until then. I give props for Hata allowing the feeling to be mutual, and doing the reset in the best way possible, considering the circumstances, but I'm not really invested in fun-fun times at Hakuo unless his joke meter has recharged to full after all this seriousness.
Did you really enjoy all of the jokes? I thought there was a lot of silliness, and I liked that but I rarely laughed out loud.

Mentar

2010-03-18, 16:45

Based on musouka's translation...

...it seems that we got a much greater closure to the arc than I ever expected. Hayate confesses much more strongly than I would have considered possible. However, it comes as a steep "price": Hata seems to indicate that the splitup between Athena and Hayate is final, and that Hayate is prepared (well, in actuality rather currently unprepared) to find a new love. What a deadly confession that was in the end...

So, the EOTW arc was a full standalone. It might also "open up" Hayate for new romance in the future, now that he found closure to his past. So, while I don't want to bury Athena's chances completely, the ending definitely does not bode well for her.

I also need to alter my opinion on Athena. It's obvious that I wronged her in the past, when I criticized what I perceived to be selfishness and a controlling attitude. Her eventual decision to release Hayate to Nagi, in this new life of his, was noble and very selfless. All the best to you, girl. May you find happiness!

Rah

2010-03-18, 16:51

Well, the MF HnG forums just got terminated.

Guess I'll post here about the latest chapter.. here goes.. my fabulous copy & paste!

Thanks for the spoilers, guys.

Anyway, this chapter sure gives me a disgusting feeling. It feels like I ate a basket of rotten apples infested with worms, filled with mold, and covered in mud.

Bleh....

Not like I'd know how that would taste like, but.. you get the picture...

This wasn't something unexpected, no, something far from it, but honestly, I was hoping for something better. I want to stop reading already, but I'll give Hata another chance. Athena might come back to Japan, and act like nothing has ever happened between them. Like, as if they were in a blank slate relationship. It's a slim possibility, I guess....

Otherwise... meh.. I dunno....

I gained interest in HnG precisely because of the EoTW arc (and the Izumi one beforehand). And now, although some interesting elements still remain for the near future (Nagi's inheritance, Hina's & Ayumu's feelings, Midas' resurrection / re-possession of someone, etc...), it doesn't feel quite... right...

Not without Athena at least. I really do hope she goes to Japan, and stays with everyone. Even if it's all reduced to a comedy, or whatever. Better than nothing...

She'd be a great addition to the cast, and I see no point of her leaving just like that. Honestly, Hayate gave me the impression that he gave up on her way too easily after all he went through with, and after all their history together. Yeah, I don't know what they talked about in 265, but it still looks exactly like that. If he only pushed a little harder instead of just giving up, and crying like that....

It's like 2 chapters ago everything was going great, and now everything turned 180° around all of a sudden.

Heh...

Well, there's still that thing about "Eternal love for Athena & Eternal protection for Nagi", though I don't know of what importance it is to Hata anymore. Actually, it can be quite a good troll quote. Eternal love, right? Well, who says you can't eternally love someone, but not be with them? While the same doesn't apply for protecting someone. Unless, of course, it's protection from afar, though Hayate isn't capable of that (I'm not going to explain what I'm thinking of, sorry.. :p)

*sigh*

*Rah has leveled up!*
*Rah has gained a new ability: Disappointment aura! - "Son, I am disappoint"*

And that's that...

Still feels like rotten apples... hmm... 11pm... breakfast time....

Hahahah!!

Edity~

zod says over Yahoo that their relationship looked like a fairy tale.

Okay, here's a nice response. This song fits perfectly IMHO....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiH4BFTELME

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-18, 17:19

Athena never had the aura of a character who would be sticking around, so this doesn't surprise me. Would have thought they'd do something about Hinagiku being depressed before jumping everyone back to Japan though.

Feels like we missed something. Didn't I read somewhere that this chapter and the next should be read as a pair? Maybe something happened that actually explains things better that we just don't get a hint of yet?

Edit: If Hina getting hit with Hayate's confession that he loves Athena got her fans to tear up their books, I think the MF HnG forums being closed down is adequate response to this from the Athena shippers.

2H-Dragon

2010-03-18, 17:50

Wow, the manga knows it drama, as much as I like Athena. I just can't see Hayate separated from Nagi. I'm not feeling Nagi as romantic partner though.

babohtea

2010-03-18, 18:16

HAHAHAHAHA! The forum got terminated! A bit off topic but, seriously, that's hilarious!

Anyhow, maybe we'll see some cool stuff in HnG now. I'm going to stop reading spoilers and read the manga normally from now on since Athena's out (for a bit), but like I said, I'm not giving up. HnG has gotten consistently better overtime, so who knows if it will still be the same old mediocre routine (or something similar to it) after they go back?

@Rah: Did you ever read the "author's avatar" omake chapters? I was always slightly annoyed by them; it felt like Hata was just trying to curry favor (at the beginning of the series). The thing about the competitive nature of manga is that there's no point in planning ahead because, well, everything changes from issue to issue (Reading Bakuman has helped me understand it a lot better). So, you get manga like To-Love-Ru where the main character isn't allowed to make a move because anything significant might disrupt the fan following....

Too quick to jump to conclusions. I think you're exaggerating a bit because of how much you like Athena though. Like you said, we'll see if Hata can pull something similarly interesting in the future.

Rah

2010-03-18, 18:39

Hmm?

No, I haven't. But... you're misunderstanding something, as you don't understand my personality yet. I'm not really exaggerating. Honestly, I don't care anymore. I just switched ships to Nagi / Hina again. If Athena shows up in Japan by any chance, then I'll switch them again. Yeah, just like that..

^___^

So.. what are these omake chapters?

Btw, the MFox spam thread is now the new spoiler thread. The pics are all there, we just need to inform everyone of the change.. :p

zodanhko

2010-03-18, 18:43

Fufufufu~~~
There was no reason for the forum to exist anymore. lol (jk)

Hayate's determination was a little too weak considering the feelings he has been showing, but that's to be expected I guess. Hina and Ayumu might have a chance after all.

I'm still curious about Nagi's inheritance situation which should be the next arc. Mikado probably realized about the broken stone already.

Rah, you can still access the spamming thread?

Used Can

2010-03-18, 18:53

As much as it saddened me, I think this was the best thing Hata could do if he planned to keep the status quo. Anyway, I don't think things will go fully back to "normal" as there'll be big changes now that Nagi has lost her inheritance; so, chances are things will get tough for them. In fact, many things, including them going to Hakuō may change, since those things were related to Nagi's fortune. So, I guess the story will become more Nagi-centric from now on.

Either way, can someone upload the scans to imageshack and PM the links to me? MF is dead, and imepita has already deleted the images.

Strygwyr

2010-03-18, 18:54

Just read the english version of 264, I applaud Athena's courage, the HayaThena thing was cute, Hata suprise me whos Hayate gonna end up(or not) with.

Rickketik

2010-03-18, 18:55

I wonder how this will work out...The main character (That being Hayate:heh:) has figured out who the most important person to him is and who he loves. That being not the same person, i wonder how this will play out.

Used Can

2010-03-18, 19:09

I don't think it'll have a major significance, since Hayate and Athena have officially parted ways. So, even if Athena were to show up again, I think they'd only be friends.

With all these developments, I think a Nagi end is quite likely.

zodanhko

2010-03-18, 19:25

GDB

2010-03-18, 19:32

kaito-kid

2010-03-18, 19:37

Unlike all the other harm main characters, I actually like Hayate and I hope he ends up with the girl he loves (Not the other way around)..Unless it's Nagi of course, that would be disgusting.

And Hayate/Athena is over!! It's a golden rule in manga, if the main character says/thinks something like that then it's over. No chance what so ever!

To bad..because the Hayate/Athena relationship actually had some value and looked as if it was going somewhere, unlike the other ones.

zodanhko

2010-03-18, 19:41

I don't know if even knowing the reason will help unless he learns it within the next few chapters. He seems really hurt, and if that pain has time to settle in, I don't think even knowing the truth would heal it.
That depends on how much he loves and understands her. If he were to forget about those feelings he has that quickly, which he has been having for 10 years, due to pain just because Athena rejected him, then I'd questioned about his feelings for her. Not that I say the chance is high which is very low, but that is the only possible way I can think of if there is a twist.

5yewy5r

2010-03-18, 19:42

Oh god, was that a nagixhayate flag I saw???? NOOOOOOOO!!!^$*#@^

I desperately hope Athena-Hayate will fix itself somehow before he leaves for Japan. If he just leaves A-tan there, it's over. It seems pretty over already, but I can only hope...

Used Can

2010-03-18, 19:44

I don't know if Hayate realized the reason why Athena parted with him yet, and if he did, I guess that's game over. The only possible way that I can see for them to establish a relationship is for Hayate to learn of her reason and confront her knowing it. If that won't change her mind, then I guess there's no hope.
I think Hayate understands why she did it. He knows his position as Nagi's butler. He has a promise he has to keep to her. Right now, he's happy but more than that, he wants to protect Nagi's happiness, and protecting girls is something Athena taught him. Athena understand that much, and Hayate knows he cannot have a relationship with Athena while being Nagi's butler. In addition to that, there were no regrets in Hayate's words at the end, only acceptance as we see he's wondering when he'll say "I love you" to someone else. So, one way or the other, I'd say that Hayate and Athena parting ways is definite.

babohtea

2010-03-18, 19:54

I don't see how anyone has a chance if Athena didn't. Seriously, Nagi managed to tear apart a mutual love interest. Even if Hayate ever falls in love with Hinagiku (I count her as the most likely), what's going to stop Nagi from taking priority again?

One thing that will make me a little pissed off would be having Athena lose to Nagi because of Hayate's duty as a butler, but then having another girl magically bypass the Nagi obstacle without much difficulty. Seriously, that just screams, "I just didn't want Athena X Hayate because I didn't want it."

@Rah. It's those random pages where the author "talks" to the characters. Basically a meta page with more jokes, referencing things like the anime and the popularity polls. Basically, the author-avatar was always complaining and begging to stay serialized -_-.

zodanhko

2010-03-18, 19:59

Maybe I'm in denial, but if he realized that he must protect and can't leave Nagi, which means he understood Athena's thoughts, then there was no reason for him to confess to Athena in the first place. The confession indicated that he wanted Athena to be with him while he may be working for Nagi. That means he didn't understand a thing when he confessed to Athena.

Used Can

2010-03-18, 20:00

I don't see how anyone has a chance if Athena didn't. Seriously, Nagi managed to tear apart a mutual love interest. Even if Hayate ever falls in love with Hinagiku (I count her as the most likely), what's going to stop Nagi from taking priority again?
Well, this is the story about a butler and his mistress, where Hayate is the butler and Nagi is the mistress. It's only natural she'll take priority, I think. Sure, it is a love comedy as well, but the main aspect of the story is the former. I think most of us should know this very well by now.

Either way, the reactions at 2ch are quite funny.

Maybe I'm in denial, but if he realized that he must protect and can't leave Nagi, which means he understood Athena's thoughts, then there was no reason for him to confess to Athena in the first place. The confession indicated that he wanted Athena to be with him while he may be working for Nagi. That means he didn't understand a thing when he confessed to Athena.
Hmm... not necessarily so. He loves Athena, and that's a fact, but there are things he's got to do, and he knows they're going to walk down different paths; therefore, they cannot be together.

I don't know, the break up seems definite to me. It's not that I like it (obviously), but I think that's the way things are.

zodanhko

2010-03-18, 20:17

Hmm... not necessarily so. He loves Athena, and that's a fact, but there are things he's got to do, and he knows they're going to walk down different paths, and thus; therefore, cannot be together.

Even he got things to do, he was still wondering...

'he's wondering when he'll say "I love you" to someone else'

It means that he still wanted Athena to accept him and his feelings since he doesn't know if he will love another girl. I'll take that as he didn't understand Athena's intention.

babohtea

2010-03-18, 20:19

Well, this is the story about a butler and his mistress, where Hayate is the butler and Nagi is the mistress. It's only natural she'll take priority, I think. Sure, it is a love comedy as well, but the main aspect of the story is the former. I think most of us should know this very well by now.

Either way, the reactions at 2ch are quite funny.

That's exactly what I'm saying. It's likely that it'll revert back to it's original status of being a gag about butlers, but I never liked the gags. Like a lot of people I just plowed through the gags to get to the current, more interesting (the fact that they have Athena in them may be a coincidence) chapters.

I never liked Nagi either, by the way. Her character design wasn't even endearing and she was a selfish brat; she might have matured a little in the EoTW arc, but not nearly as many as the other characters and she sure isn't even close to the maturity of the other girls.

About 2ch...

Can you share some of the reactions? Hahahaha. Maybe enough enraged Japanese fanboys (girls can be fans too, but "fanboys" sounds funnier) complain to Hata, his "I must be popular" attitude will affect the plot. I'm not being serious, mind you. It is possible though... ;)

One more thing about 264: Does anyone else think the "meaningful quotes" in HnG have been completely lame? I mean, the "bell rings into the future"? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Used Can

2010-03-18, 20:28

Even he got things to do, he was still wondering...

'he's wondering when he'll say "I love you" to someone else'

It means that he still wanted Athena to accept him and his feelings since he doesn't know if he will love another girl. I'll take that as he didn't understand Athena's intention.
The whole quote goes something like this:

"The day I really can tell someone "I love you" once more...
That day me too, once again..."

So, I don't think he was wondering about Athena, but I'll leave it like that.

That's exactly what I'm saying. It's likely that it'll revert back to it's original status of being a gag about butlers, but I never liked the gags. Like a lot of people I just plowed through the gags to get to the current, more interesting (the fact that they have Athena in them may be a coincidence) chapters.
The issue is most people read HnG because of the gags. In fact, many fans (Japanese and Western), complained about the seriousness of this arc.

I never liked Nagi either, by the way. Her character design wasn't even endearing and she was a selfish brat; she might have matured a little in the EoTW arc, but not nearly as many as the other characters and she sure isn't even close to the maturity of the other girls.
I honestly have to disagree. Nagi has received a great deal of character development. She's still childish, but she's a lot more mature, and considerate of others.

Can you share some of the reactions? Hahahaha. Maybe enough enraged Japanese fanboys (girls can be fans too, but "fanboys" sounds funnier) complain to Hata, his "I must be popular" attitude will affect the plot. I'm not being serious, mind you. It is possible though... ;)
The reactions are quite strong and very divided. Many fans are happy that this arc ended, and they hope the series will revert back to being a love comedy. Other people agree with that, but say they didn't like they way this arc ended. To quote many of them, it left them "a very bad after-taste". Other fans simply didn't want this sort of plot to end, even more so, they didn't want Athena to leave. You also have some people who think this arc did a great damage to the manga, since it was supposed to be a slice-of-life love comedy. Either way, all of them are strong opinions.

One more thing about 264: Does anyone else think the "meaningful quotes" in HnG have been completely lame? I mean, the "bell rings into the future"? Wtf is that supposed to mean?
Well, it does make sense, as things will definitely change now that Nagi has lost her inheritance, and now that we know several things, like the involvement of Yukariko and Ikusa into all of this.

GlassesLady

2010-03-18, 20:48

Feels like we missed something. Didn't I read somewhere that this chapter and the next should be read as a pair? Maybe something happened that actually explains things better that we just don't get a hint of yet?

I think it was supposed to be that 264 and 265 were the two-parter, not 265 and 266. But anyway.

Just why is it that everyone thinks HayatexNagi is 'disgusting' just because of the three-year age difference? They're both fairly clueless, so it's not like it really makes a difference. Watching a (supposedly) six-year-old girl acting rather convincingly like a sexually mature adult and apparently trying to seduce a hapless six-year-old boy seems rather more squicky to me, really. /: But it seems I'm the only one who thinks that.

zodanhko

2010-03-18, 20:49

The whole quote goes something like this:

"The day I really can tell someone "I love you" once more...
That day me too, once again..."

So, I don't think he was wondering about Athena, but I'll leave it like that.

When he said...

"The day I really can tell someone "I love you" once more..."

it indicated that he believed he had no problem loving someone while protecting Nagi since he was thinking whether he will fall in love with another girl (That's why I think he still wanted Athena to accept him since she is the only girl he loves right now.) He still believed loving a girl while being Nagi's butler will have no affect on his future life. That's why he didn't understand Athena's thoughts.

babohtea

2010-03-18, 20:55

Hm. I'm not too sure how 2ch works... does it carry the same connotation that 4ch has in the "west"? I mean, 4ch doesn't exactly carry a positive reputation...

About the quote, I still think it was stupid (maybe it sounds better in Japanese? I know of cases like that). It might make a little sense with the whole Cindarella thing and how the bell symbolizes a passage of time, but that's stretching it.

If any of my friends in real life ever say something like "the boombox plays a tune into the future" or "the sunrise rises into the future" I can confidently say I would laugh out loud in ridicule (good natured ridicule, by the way.) I'm not expecting like, amazing literature or insight in a manga, but if they're going to try to pull it off I'm not going to forgiving.

I liked Toradora's various quotes, and I also like some of the "perfect" quotes that Keima says in Kaminomi. So, I type my reply with the clack of keys into the future, and I press my mouse button onto the "Post Quick Reply" button with the click of mouse-buttons into the future.

Wow, I almost cried tears into the future realizing how beautiful those last lines were.

Rah

2010-03-18, 22:27

*yawn*

Uhmm, 2ch isn't an abbreviation of 2chan, but a different site, and 4chan is just one of my favorite comedy sites. What bad reputation? ... Hahahahhah...

Anyhow, now that it's temporarily over between Hayate and Athena, Hina can finally cheer up, as well as Ayumu. Hata did this to preserve their relationships in the long run...

He might even pull off a Hina end for all we know. Hey, it's possible, but it all depends on what the fans and editors want the most, or whatever...

Hina is still one of the most popular characters, though through voting we've all seen how much popularity Athena gained, and she's not even in the anime yet. So.... yeah, I guess I'll correct myself. Popularity is pretty much irrelevant.

Well.........

I guess it's time we see what will happen to Nagi, and how will everyone else react to that. Hina & Ayumu will cheer up, Nagi is happy that Hayate has resolved his problem, saved the person that was dear to him, and returned to her safely. Mikado.. hmm... things aren't exactly going as planned for him, eh? One gem is in pieces now, and I don't know how to react if he'll say that he'll give Hayate another chance, and thus preserve Nagi's status as a billionaire.

The gem reacts to negative emotions, right? The only one who remained unaffected by all the events in this arc is still Aika. Hata did draw her in his blog this week...

Hmm...

I'd like to see if my prediction will come true, but perhaps it's still too early to see Midas again, eh?

It's a shame that Athena won't be joining the regular cast... *sigh*

And I was looking forward to it. All the misunderstandings, and jealousy she could stir up...

Oh, well....

AmIaNeRd

2010-03-18, 23:06

And so the AthenaXHayate flag falls... likely never to rise again...

And the NagiXHayate flag goes even higher? Haha.

While the manga is probably going to shift to a more gag-comedy for now, I hope it doesn't last TOO long. I gotta admit I'm one of those who rushed through a lot of the comedy chapters to get to this more serious chapters..Ah.. but I guess a few gags don't hurt...
I'm not too sure what to say about ch 265 as I want to read it in english to really interpret what that chapter means.

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-18, 23:45

Something I just realized, though I think it was earlier chapters that made the distinction. Most people thought that Athena leaving Hayate with the stone when she healed and cared for him after Machina beat him up, we thought that that was a sign of her maturity. Now we've found out that she can't touch the stones, which changes it from a 'she's acting mature' to 'she can't help but leave it alone'.

Kinda amusing that a supposed 'good' thing about her turned out to be an action she only took because of the curse inflicted.:heh:

All sorts of points take on a different outlook if you let them settle and get all the pieces together before making a decision about them.
Maybe we should just let this sit for a moment before taking our anger out because Athena is leaving the main cast.

zodanhko

2010-03-19, 00:01

Something I just realized, though I think it was earlier chapters that made the distinction. Most people thought that Athena leaving Hayate with the stone when she healed and cared for him after Machina beat him up, we thought that that was a sign of her maturity. Now we've found out that she can't touch the stones, which changes it from a 'she's acting mature' to 'she can't help but leave it alone'.

Kinda amusing that a supposed 'good' thing about her turned out to be an action she only took because of the curse inflicted.:heh:
Uhh..No...
She told Hayate to give her the stone in chapter 255 which means she could hold it. When she left the Royal Garden, the curse was probably already lifted.

Game8910

2010-03-19, 00:08

Uhh..No...
She told Hayate to give her the stone in chapter 255 which means she could hold it. When she left the Royal Garden, the curse was probably already lifted.
we dont know that much, there are way to handle the stone without touching it....oh well something so trivial makes no difference to the end result anyways, Athena is too nice for her own good

zodanhko

2010-03-19, 00:11

For better evident: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate_the_combat_butler/c243/5.html

There was no problem to take the stone, whether she can touch it or not.

That is why I'm not fond with pure and kind girls, especially ones with altruism. ~.~

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-19, 00:18

Uhh..No...
She told Hayate to give her the stone in chapter 255 which means she could hold it. When she left the Royal Garden, the curse was probably already lifted.

She had said that she needed Hayate's power.. because we're never given exactly what power she's talking about, it could have simply be the power to hold onto the stone.

If she had a way of holding the stone without actually touching it, it would have been easy to subvert. She could have taken the stone from Hayate when he was six because technically he wasn't holding it either, it was within the pouch he was carrying.

She's always seemed to have someone with her, first Hayate, then his brother, recently Machina, then Hayate again. Nothing to indicate that she could actually touch the stone, or anything touching/carrying it, on her own.

zodanhko

2010-03-19, 00:30

She had said that she needed Hayate's power.. because we're never given exactly what power she's talking about, it could have simply be the power to hold onto the stone.

If she had a way of holding the stone without actually touching it, it would have been easy to subvert. She could have taken the stone from Hayate when he was six because technically he wasn't holding it either, it was within the pouch he was carrying.
Before entering this debate, this page: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate...er/c243/5.html is already enough of a proof that she can take the stone easily, whether she can hold it or not. If you claimed Makina can hold the stone, then there was no reason for her to need Hayate after she took the stone. All in all, she didn't take it because she did not want to.

She never said she needs any power from Hayate. She believed Hayate took the Power of Royal when she sleep outside the castle.

She didn't realized Hayate had the stone, and she can't exit the castle even with the stone or may be she can, although that doesn't really matter.

Mentar

2010-03-19, 01:26

And the NagiXHayate flag goes even higher? Haha.

So it might seem. But I'd say that the character who gained the most by _this_ way to wrap it up is probably Hina.

Game8910

2010-03-19, 01:44

So it might seem. But I'd say that the character who gained the most by _this_ way to wrap it up is probably Maria

fixed that for you....I just cant stop getting a gut feeling about this

Used Can

2010-03-19, 01:48

So it might seem. But I'd say that the character who gained the most by _this_ way to wrap it up is probably Hina.
I think I'll have to disagree, this chapter had so many Nagi-flags it wasn't even funny.

So far, I've said that a Nagi end wasn't likely due to the lack of romantic development (read: complete absence of it). However, after these chapters I think it's quite likely Hata will indeed pull a main female character end, in the end. Well, the arcs to come may give him the opportunity to develop it.

leoblack9

2010-03-19, 02:58

So far, its going to be back to normal (mahn, nothin is ever normal in HnG, is it?)

I got mixed feelings though, Athena can leave for all she wants but she'll come back surely enough when the situation gets rough some time in the future.

Perfect opportunity for other characters to develop, Maria, Aika, Fumi and Sharuna are all I could think of.

Well then, I hope that it doens't end up comedically boring.

Mentar

2010-03-19, 03:15

I think I'll have to disagree, this chapter had so many Nagi-flags it wasn't even funny.

But no romantic ones whatsoever. Seriously, none. I can see various ending opportunities for Nagi which do NOT include romance - like, having Yukariko return (who doesn't seem dead after all). Like, resolving things around Himegami. Or, having Nagi find someone her age. And finally, following up on the theme of graciously giving up on Hayate for his greater happiness as part of Nagi growing up. Or a combination of all of those.

The main disadvantage of Nagi is her age. She's too young for Hayate to build a romantic link. So either, Nagi (kid, now) needs to morph into Nagi (adolescent, future), or I can't see any development.

So far, I've said that a Nagi end wasn't likely due to the lack of romantic development (read: complete absence of it). However, after these chapters I think it's quite likely Hata will indeed pull a main female character end, in the end. Well, the arcs to come may give him the opportunity to develop it.

Again, unless Hata wants to peddle pedophilia (a hilarious thought with Hayate's timidity), he'll either have to completely change Nagi and let her age, or rather keep the relationship as-is.

And sorry, there hasn't been any romantic progress concerning Maria in a few ages. Along with the inherent difficulties I saw from the past (letting Nagi lose her surrogate mother AND her lover at the same time), I have difficulties seeing a path here.

So, if we DO assume that the Athena arc is completely closed (probable, but not certain), who remains with the most significant and most detailed romantic development is Hina. Which is why I'd say that she gained the most out of c265.

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-19, 03:31

And sorry, there hasn't been any romantic progress concerning Maria in a few ages. Along with the inherent difficulties I saw from the past (letting Nagi lose her surrogate mother AND her lover at the same time), I have difficulties seeing a path here.

So, if we DO assume that the Athena arc is completely closed (probable, but not certain), who remains with the most significant and most detailed romantic development is Hina. Which is why I'd say that she gained the most out of c265.

I still don't see Nagi having the possibility of losing Hayate (her lover), though I truly doubt the possibility that she's actually going to be his choice in the end. Hayate has continually shown his devotion to her (as her butler).
I think the most likely case would be his chosen lover moving in with them, allowing Nagi to continually fawn over him (she's shown enough growth in this arc to show that generally she would allow it, and most of the other girls are the same).

Maria has also shown a similar level of devotion to Nagi.. which makes Nagi's assumption that she'll leave eventually a bit of fridge logic.
The entire reason that Maria has tried to stay in the background of the harem is because of supporting Nagi's place in it.
Maria as the choice does have the advantage of not changing the makeup of the cast interactions in any meaningful way, she doesn't seem a likely choice from Hayate's POV.

I agree that Hinagiku has gained the most ground through this arc, but Ayumu also placed herself back in contention during it, though I don't see her as much of a real competitor.

Used Can

2010-03-19, 04:01

But no romantic ones whatsoever.
Actually, they were on that direction. For example, when Athena told Hayate to go back to his important person, we had an image of Nagi and Ayumu, in which Nagi was talking about the deep bond she has with Hayate. That's minimal, but it sure is suspicious. Another flag that wasn't so subtle was when Hayate was wondering about the day when he'd be able to tell "I love you" to someone again, and during that first inner monologue, Nagi was shown.

The main disadvantage of Nagi is her age. She's too young for Hayate to build a romantic link. So either, Nagi (kid, now) needs to morph into Nagi (adolescent, future), or I can't see any development.
Nagi is only 3 years younger than Hayate. Whilst the manga's end doesn't have to be an immediate romantic end, they could end up together as butler and mistress, with the open possibility of Hayate falling for her in the future.

Either way, I'd say you guys should wait for the scanlations and then form a better judgement.

Mentar

2010-03-19, 04:19

I still don't see Nagi having the possibility of losing Hayate (her lover), though I truly doubt the possibility that she's actually going to be his choice in the end. Hayate has continually shown his devotion to her (as her butler).
I think the most likely case would be his chosen lover moving in with them, allowing Nagi to continually fawn over him (she's shown enough growth in this arc to show that generally she would allow it, and most of the other girls are the same).

Well... maaaaaybe, but that would require some fairly extreme changes of heart in the characters. First, I see no intention of Maria to get together with Hayate. I see no intention of Hayate to get together with Maria. I do remember Nagi repeatedly going totally tilt when she merely SUSPECTED Hayate of making moves on Maria. In fact, Nagi still thinks that Hayate is completely smitten with her.

Lots of really major hurdles to overcome... and would that qualify as "happy ending"? *scratch head*

I agree that Hinagiku has gained the most ground through this arc, but Ayumu also placed herself back in contention during it, though I don't see her as much of a real competitor.

God bless da Hamster. If by some miraculous developments she were to end up with Hayate after all, I wouldn't mind.

Mentar

2010-03-19, 04:24

Actually, they were on that direction. For example, when Athena told Hayate to go back to his important person, we had an image of Nagi and Ayumu, in which Nagi was talking about the deep bond she has with Hayate. That's minimal, but it sure is suspicious. Another flag that wasn't so subtle was when Hayate was wondering about the day when he'd be able to tell "I love you" to someone again, and during that first inner monologue, Nagi was shown.

Don't get me wrong, Nagi certainly remains the big big favorite. It's just for several small reasons that I genuinely doubt it's going to be her in the end.

Nagi is only 3 years younger than Hayate. Whilst the manga's end doesn't have to be an immediate romantic end, they could end up together as butler and mistress, with the open possibility of Hayate falling for her in the future.

Yes, true. But wouldn't it be totally anticlimactic to just make a time jump and say "dup de doo, they've fallen in love in the meantime, and now they're a loving couple. Ze end." ?

For Nagi to "win", she needs to mature. If we're treated to a time "speedup" or a "time jump" while continuing the story, this would indicate a Nagi ending. As long as she remains the kid she is, I doubt that we'll get the romantic groundwork which would be needed.

Game8910

2010-03-19, 04:31

aah hamster, truly someone I admire in this manga only second to athena (this is just in the admiration category btw) because after a-tan she seems to be the most direct person when it comes to her feelings with Hayate....a fine choice...dammit Hayate's harem is full of god tier contestants

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-19, 04:32

Well... maaaaaybe, but that would require some fairly extreme changes of heart in the characters. First, I see no intention of Maria to get together with Hayate. I see no intention of Hayate to get together with Maria. I do remember Nagi repeatedly going totally tilt when she merely SUSPECTED Hayate of making moves on Maria. In fact, Nagi still thinks that Hayate is completely smitten with her.

Lots of really major hurdles to overcome... and would that qualify as "happy ending"? *scratch head*

God bless da Hamster. If by some miraculous developments she were to end up with Hayate after all, I wouldn't mind.

The major factor I see for Nagi being alright with it is that 'twice' she has ordered Hayate out on a date with another girl.
The first was with Maria specifically, under the clearly obvious (even Hayate could see through it) excuse that if it were Nagi herself the person they were trying to trick would only see it as him taking a little-sister figure on a shopping trip or something.
The second was a little more opaque, sending Hayate out with Hinagiku earlier in the arc, with a somewhat plausible excuse.

It seemed that when she smashed the stone, that she might have some clue that she might have misinterpreted his initial statement. Something about 'words being easy to be heard in the wrong context'?

I can't say I would really mind most endings aside from Hina or Nagi, but I don't think any of them would turn out to be 'happy endings', including Athena.

Mentar

2010-03-19, 04:42

The major factor I see for Nagi being alright with it is that 'twice' she has ordered Hayate out on a date with another girl.
The first was with Maria specifically, under the clearly obvious (even Hayate could see through it) excuse that if it were Nagi herself the person they were trying to trick would only see it as him taking a little-sister figure on a shopping trip or something.

Well, as you said, this one doesn't quite apply ^_^;

The second was a little more opaque, sending Hayate out with Hinagiku earlier in the arc, with a somewhat plausible excuse.

And this one was because Nagi is sure by now that Hinagiku is out of reach for Hayate, and because they really owed Hina. Keep in mind, she forcefully refused Ayumu who insisted that she wanted a Hayate date too - because Nagi believed Ayumu would go after him.

Koroshiya_Kame_13

2010-03-19, 06:31

Well this time it was Hayate's trademark smile which attracted most of his harem that brought an end to his longing feelings. For some reason I feel an aura of mystery around Nagi when the nutcracker is around.

Wolfnagi

2010-03-19, 10:56

So guys,
where the spoilers again?????
Didn't managed to catch up......

Fandal

2010-03-19, 14:10

264 & 265
Athena and Hayate are parting ways? Yay! That's great. That means mini-stories or even a side series detailing the adventures of Athena!

Ok, in all seriousness, Athena is way too powerful a character to leave around like a normal character. Strength wise she's more powerful then Hayate and comedy wise....her hair in itself probably is equal in comedy to the rest of the cast. If she sticks around, her aurora will overtake everyone with the possible exception of Hayate - and even he takes 2nd place. This story is about Hayate's not Athena! The big problem with this idea though is that whenever Athena does make a special appearance, the serious part of the plot is probably following right behind her.

Of course, since this is suppose to be a comedy. This emotional breakaway might lead to comedy when they go back to Japan and find out the mansion has been taken over and there's a note on the door that says to go to a new house which so happens to be owned by Athena - just for fun! Although I always thought Nagi made a small fortune with the stockmarket so she isn't that poor even w/o the inheritance.

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-19, 14:23

Well, as you said, this one doesn't quite apply ^_^;

And this one was because Nagi is sure by now that Hinagiku is out of reach for Hayate, and because they really owed Hina. Keep in mind, she forcefully refused Ayumu who insisted that she wanted a Hayate date too - because Nagi believed Ayumu would go after him.

The first wasn't that it didn't count, just that Nagi herself still seemed unsure of the stance. Maybe she hadn't quite gotten the possibility through her head that Hayate doesn't think of her as more than a master.

The second seemed to be more because she was rather sure that Hina wouldn't go on the offensive, author avatar foreknowledge that Hina wouldn't confess.
Ayumu on the other hand, would, and has twice, so I think Nagi's trying to keep a little hope in her heart that she might be able to win him over, and if Ayumu went out on a date with Hayate she would crush what little hope Nagi had left.
Kinda amusing that Nagi herself ordered Hayate to take time alone with Ayumu (in a non-date capacity) earlier (Hot Springs arc).

When she spoke to Hayate before he left for his date with Hina, she seemed to be regretful more than anything.

GlassesLady

2010-03-19, 21:16

Just why is it that everyone thinks HayatexNagi is 'disgusting' just because of the three-year age difference? They're both fairly clueless, so it's not like it really makes a difference. Watching a (supposedly) six-year-old girl acting rather convincingly like a sexually mature adult and apparently trying to seduce a hapless six-year-old boy seems rather more squicky to me, really. /: But it seems I'm the only one who thinks that.

Okay, it looks like I really am the only one who thinks this! Just like I'm the only one who still seems to have a problem with Athena's personality. But oh well.

Anyway, something somewhat relevant: Remember that what Hayate said to Nagi before he ran off to save Athena was 'If I don't do this, I can't move on' or something of the sort, so like.... with that and what just happened, I think HayatexAthena is kinda sunk now. Sorry, guys. :P

babohtea

2010-03-19, 21:29

Okay, it looks like I really am the only one who thinks this! Just like I'm the only one who still seems to have a problem with Athena's personality. But oh well.

Anyway, something somewhat relevant: Remember that what Hayate said to Nagi before he ran off to save Athena was 'If I don't do this, I can't move on' or something of the sort, so like.... with that and what just happened, I think HayatexAthena is kinda sunk now. Sorry, guys. :P

People with brains kind of realize that.

Yeah.. I don't see how you can still dislike Athena after "what just happened" was like epic self-sacrifice..

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-19, 21:29

Okay, it looks like I really am the only one who thinks this! Just like I'm the only one who still seems to have a problem with Athena's personality. But oh well.

You're not the only one who has a problem with it, I support it with you. I have no issue supporting Nagi anymore because of her mental maturity (which seems to be what Hayate is meaning when he talks about preferring older women) while I have a large problem with Athena's actions towards Hayate.

Also find it amusing that Hayate has shown interest in three girls physically. Maria, Hinagiku and Athena. Out of those three, Athena is the only one who prompted such a question, while the others were squicked by the reaction they were causing from Hayate.
Definately seems that she's trying a little hard to make sure she's the one in Hayate's heart.

zodanhko

2010-03-19, 21:39

Also find it amusing that Hayate has shown interest in three girls physically. Maria, Hinagiku and Athena. Out of those three, Athena is the only one who prompted such a question, while the others were squicked by the reaction they were causing from Hayate.
Definately seems that she's trying a little hard to make sure she's the one in Hayate's heart.
Athena tortured Hayate with swords, made him kissed her, made him sleep on the same bed with her, made him holding her hands while sleeping...But that was the best parts!!!

Yes, that's the reason why Hina still went to the restaurant with Hayate and believed it was a good time to confess knowing he was depressed. She's an angel. For the lack of vocabulary, she was unless and weak to confront with her love-life problems.

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-19, 21:43

Athena tortured Hayate with swords, made him kissed her, made him sleep on the same bed with her, made him holding her hands while sleeping...But that was the best parts!!!

Yes, that's the reason why Hina still went to the restaurant with Hayate and believed it was a good time to confess knowing he was depressed. She's an angel. For the lack of vocabulary, she was unless and weak to confront with her love-life problems.

Um.. don't know what exactly you're talking about, I'm just talking about Hayate noticing them physically. He continually makes comments of how Maria is attractive, he's made Hina uncomfortable with staring at her, he notices Athena's 'growth'.. when she encourages him to notice them.

zodanhko

2010-03-19, 21:56

Um.. don't know what exactly you're talking about, I'm just talking about Hayate noticing them physically. He continually makes comments of how Maria is attractive, he's made Hina uncomfortable with staring at her, he notices Athena's 'growth'.. when she encourages him to notice them.
Out of those three, Athena is the only one who prompted such a question, while the others were squicked by the reaction they were causing from Hayate.
Definately seems that she's trying a little hard to make sure she's the one in Hayate's heart.

She can asked such question unlike some weak character who always run away since she was capable of tortured Hayate, forced him to kiss her, forced him to sleep with her and hold her hands, because she wanted to make sure she's in Hayate's heart. Isn't that right?

Rah

2010-03-19, 22:12

HnG is so DEEP, lol..

I believe that the current events were all to conclude his still ongoing promise, and past relationship with her. If she ever returns to Japan (there are still some loose ends to tie up), she'll have a clean start along with the other girls. I think that Hata wanted to make it fair, sort of, so he reset Hayate's love gauge to 0.

Now that Athena is momentarily out of the picture, it's possible for the others to take another chance. Hina still needs to confess, and Ayumu needs to hear an answer from him. She waited long enough, eh?

Though Nagi is still overwhelmingly in the lead, even if Hayate doesn't recognize her as a love interest at the moment. Their relationship may change after they return to Japan. She's still flat as a board, though... and that's not quite Hayate's ideal.. hahaha...

*sigh*

I really wanted to see Nagi comment on Athena's chest, after she heard about their past relationship. Hahaha....

zodanhko

2010-03-19, 22:39

I really wanted to see Nagi comment on Athena's chest, after she heard about their past relationship. Hahaha....
So much for Nagi's reaction after she learned that Hayate's in love with someone who's superior even to Hina that you mentioned about 1 half a year ago...Such a disappointment. :T_T:

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-20, 01:29

Though Nagi is still overwhelmingly in the lead, even if Hayate doesn't recognize her as a love interest at the moment. Their relationship may change after they return to Japan. She's still flat as a board, though... and that's not quite Hayate's ideal.. hahaha...

*sigh*

I really wanted to see Nagi comment on Athena's chest, after she heard about their past relationship. Hahaha....

Considering his reaction to Hinagiku who's berserk button (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BerserkButton) is that she is (supposedly) 'flat as a board', I fail to see Hayate as the type of guy who sees any value in the size of a girls chest.

It actually gives him a measure of maturity in my book that he doesn't seem to value such, while the world seems to think they should.
Nagi seems to have unfortunate stock in such a belief, but maybe watching Hayate for longer from a different perspective should free her from that misconception.

zodanhko

2010-03-20, 01:45

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-20, 02:04

I know this is trivial...But...
Bastion, was Hina immature or did she try a little too hard wanted to have Hayate's heart when she tried to enhance her chest in the hot spring arc? Or when she pretended to be a weak girl because she thought Hayate liked them due to her false assumption? Or both?

Wasted 1 minute of my life....

No, she was falling to the world's view of what women should be. A part I hope she drops since it falls drastically short of the intelligent person she's purported to be. Along with failing hard to notice that it's when she doesn't act according to what she thinks he likes that she finds herself the center of his attention.

When she acts feminine around everyone, she gets them to convince Hayate to take her out on a date, but reverts to her Bokukko (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Bokukko) personality while on the date, which he reacts favorably to.
Acting like a frail girl at the beach volleyball match makes him think she's sick, while her anger at being poked about her chest (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Pettanko) earns her a date.
When she shows up for the date at the beginning of this arc, he stares at her, despite her thinking that she has nothing to stare at (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Pettanko).

She's continually been shown that what the world thinks she should be to get a man and what Hayate shows her that he prefers should clue her that she should stop putting on the mask and just let him see her acting normally (as Ayumu does lol) and he'll be putty in her hand.

Rah

2010-03-20, 02:04

Heh? What? Maturity? What's wrong with preferring something else? He likes em bigger, but yeah, I suppose there's nothing wrong with giving that up for the sake of love, if that's what you're intending to say~

Umm.. I'll add that even if she acted normally, she'd still have to be direct with him, cuz he's an airhead (of sorts). But then again, it's hard to act normally around the person you love...

Heh...

zodanhko

2010-03-20, 02:32

As you must have already realized, I don't really trust the TVtrope regarding accurate information. Lol

No, she was falling to the world's view of what women should be. A part I hope she drops since it falls drastically short of the intelligent person she's purported to be. Along with failing hard to notice that it's when she doesn't act according to what she thinks he likes that she finds herself the center of his attention.
Don't you mean "she was falling to the world's view of what women should be" after she realized she loves Hayate. It was obvious that she was concerned about her body structure because of what she thinks the blue-haired boy like.

When she acts feminine around everyone, she gets them to convince Hayate to take her out on a date, but reverts to her Bokukko (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Bokukko) personality while on the date, which he reacts favorably to.
Acting like a frail girl at the beach volleyball match makes him think she's sick, while her anger at being poked about her chest (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Pettanko) earns her a date.
When she shows up for the date at the beginning of this arc, he stares at her, despite her thinking that she has nothing to stare at (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Pettanko).
Sick?!?
I don't think it was anymore obvious that she acted like a weak girl because she believed Hayate liked frail girls. No, seriously...it can't be anymore simplistic...
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate_the_combat_butler/c221/12.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate_the_combat_butler/c221/13.html

Wonder how you could have missed it with your love for Hina, perhaps it's because of too much love?

She's continually been shown that what the world thinks she should be to get a man and what Hayate shows her that he prefers should clue her that she should stop putting on the mask and just let him see her acting normally (as Ayumu does lol) and he'll be putty in her hand.
Uhhh.....I don't really want to get into what you think about Hina without sufficient facts.

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-20, 02:39

Sick?!?
I don't think it was anymore obvious that she acted like a weak girl because she believed Hayate liked frail girls. No, seriously...it can't be anymore simplistic...
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate_the_combat_butler/c221/12.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate_the_combat_butler/c221/13.html

Wonder how you could have missed it with your love for Hina...

.. It's called actually reading the chapter..
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate_the_combat_butler/c222/15.html

zodanhko

2010-03-20, 02:46

.. It's called actually reading the chapter..
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate_the_combat_butler/c222/16.html
All it says was that she was delusional in believing acting like a frail girl will make Hayate falls for her. And/or she believed that Hayate needed to be saved so she should kick that guys ass which she did because he insulted her chest size. I don't see the different Bastion-kun.

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-20, 02:50

All it says was that she was delusional in believing acting like a frail girl will make Hayate falls for her. And/or she believed that Hayate needed to be saved so she should kick that guys ass which she did because he insulted her chest size. I don't see the different Bastion-kun.

>.> Stupid machine linked the wrong page. Try looking at pg 15. Hayate says that he should have seen that Hinagiku wasn't feeling well.

zodanhko

2010-03-20, 02:53

>.> Stupid machine linked the wrong page. Try looking at pg 15. Hayate says that he should have seen that Hinagiku wasn't feeling well.
There is still no different, Bastion-kun. She was acting as a frail girl believing it will make Hayate likes her, but Hayate believed she wasn't feeling well since she is a strong,hyperactive, monster girl in his eyes.

This makes her both immature and try a little hard to make sure she has Hayate's heart according to your logic. Right?

Edit: Like I said on MF, don't use the "only with negative tone" regarding Athena so easily...^.^

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-20, 03:05

There is still no different, Bastion-kun. She was acting as a frail girl believing it will make Hayate likes her, but Hayate believed she wasn't feeling well since she is a a strong and hyperactive girl, a monster, in his eyes.

Given how the entire point of my argument was that what she thinks will get his attention, by the world's view, is pulling the exact opposite. And she gets rewarded when she acts normally.

Acting like a frail girl doesn't get her the attention she wants, while acting strong, like she normally is, rewards her.

Acting 'girly-girl' gets her the first date, but he's coerced into it, while acting strong during it gets her positive attention.
Acting frail gets her negative attention, when she acts strong she gets rewarded by being granted another date.
Looking nice without positive reinforcement earns her his gaze to uncomfortable degrees.

All things the world would want to tell her shouldn't get her attention is getting her closer.
I'd bet that once she shows him that she was the hero that helped him will be gaining her more points where the story is currently.

zodanhko

2010-03-20, 03:14

Given how the entire point of my argument was that what she thinks will get his attention, by the world's view, is pulling the exact opposite. And she gets rewarded when she acts normally.

Acting like a frail girl doesn't get her the attention she wants, while acting strong, like she normally is, rewards her.

Acting 'girly-girl' gets her the first date, but he's coerced into it, while acting strong during it gets her positive attention.
Acting frail gets her negative attention, when she acts strong she gets rewarded by being granted another date.
Looking nice without positive reinforcement earns her his gaze to uncomfortable degrees.

All things the world would want to tell her shouldn't get her attention is getting her closer.
I'd bet that once she shows him that she was the hero that helped him will be gaining her more points where the story is currently.
I'm not here to argue the world's view or what she or you think the world want her to do according to your perspective. Or what you think it's the better or worst outcome because of how she acted. It's meaningless and will go on forever and forever, and I'm not at all interested in speaking about Hina.

I'm here to give evidences on how Hina acted according to the logic that you have been given negatively only toward Athena. That's all, Bastion-kun.

Edit: Bye, bye...it's sleeping time.

Koroshiya_Kame_13

2010-03-20, 03:35

You people take it so deep. I just interpretted that it was for the comedy build up for the final smashing victory.

Mentar

2010-03-20, 04:51

There is still no different, Bastion-kun. She was acting as a frail girl believing it will make Hayate likes her, but Hayate believed she wasn't feeling well since she is a strong,hyperactive, monster girl in his eyes.

What? :)

Where did Hayate think of Hina as a monster girl?

GlassesLady

2010-03-20, 08:48

You're not the only one who has a problem with it, I support it with you. I have no issue supporting Nagi anymore because of her mental maturity (which seems to be what Hayate is meaning when he talks about preferring older women) while I have a large problem with Athena's actions towards Hayate.

Also find it amusing that Hayate has shown interest in three girls physically. Maria, Hinagiku and Athena. Out of those three, Athena is the only one who prompted such a question, while the others were squicked by the reaction they were causing from Hayate.
Definately seems that she's trying a little hard to make sure she's the one in Hayate's heart.

That's not actually the problem I was referring to, but I'll give you props for trying. *gives Bastion props*

Anyway, for people who care, I was talking about the.... trying to remake Hayate into her perfect little white knight who will take care of her forever!
But Gasp! you say, But she let Hayate go back to Nagi, that must mean she's not selfish at all! Well, the 'I want my beloved to be happy' bit is nice and all, but I'm left with the feeling that if they did still manage to hook up, she'd revert to ordering Hayate to take care of her and kicking him in the stomach if he tried to protest. Considering that
-She doesn't bat an eyelash when Hayate mentions that he hasn't had a girlfriend the entire time they were apart due to not being financially responsible enough
-She says she plans to teach Machina some things, most likely the same stuff she taught Hayate
-The first thing she does once freed from Midas is to use Hayate as furniture
I'd say that that aspect of her hasn't changed at all since EotW.
Now, I'm not even saying she's doing this deliberately to be selfish - she probably truly believes it's the way a relationship should work, or something - but that doesn't change the fact that it causes a problem in her relationship with Hayate. He sincerely thinks he needs to be 'dependable' in order to be allowed to be with a girl, thanks to Athena hammering this into his head before he really knew anything about relationships, and Athena seems to believe this as well, so what you end up with if they hook up is Hayate working his ass off just to be 'allowed' to be with her, while Athena does god-knows-what, probably nothing. It's an inequal relationship. And they need to be apart for a while to work through this. Maybe once they've both dropped this idea, I'll consider Athena as a candidate for Hayate's girlfriend, but for now, keep them the hell away from each other. :P

(And by the way, fanboys.... making up cute little excuses for Athena's actions or talking about how much you lied them isn't going to improve my opinion of her. Or of you, for that matter.)

zibi88

2010-03-20, 08:59

but seriously after seeing the spoiler of c265 I feel sooo depressed.... I dont want Athena to disappear like that....... I would prefer Nagi to just vanish since she is not my fav char......

well Nagis childish gags reffering to 80% of the whole manga her playing games, drawing that shity mangas that no one understands or slacking off all days...... well its alrady overused for me and it got boring........ and personaly I dont see any ending with HayatexNagi at all..... I just cant... maybe others can but I no matter how long think about it I cant see it...

Hayate might now shut down all his "love" interest for other girls.... like "I will only love A-tan" and no one else..... so he might hear confessions but he wont respond to them becouse his heart belongs forever to other girl (the love he held up to for all those 10years)

hmmm I feel that from now one hayte wont be the same hayate... he will think about athena more.... he will be more depressed... and manga will lose the comedy aspect..... hmm kinda "now nothing will be like before".... Hata might try to show comedy again yet deep inside it wont be the same.... duo the athena parting..... ehhh kinda "why her".... why not kick out some other character out ^^

well hayate cried at the parting so he will suffer more deep inside (something will change for him).... and the relantionship with nagi will be like it was buttler and lady of the house nothing more.......

we can say that this is a space for hina or ayumu... but seriouly will hataye after this another sad parting instantly switch and forget about his love for Athena... like nothing happened.... nope its impossible so he will rather stay away from any romantic relantionships for now.... at his current state I guess even if hina would confess he wouldnt accept it...

zodanhko

2010-03-20, 09:36

You people take it so deep.
We are best of friends, and the purpose of that discussion was for FUN. hehe

Rah, I know you like this. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSgM5BOtecc&feature=related

What? :)

Where did Hayate think of Hina as a monster girl?

Oh lord, have mercy on me..
Zod, take a gun
he aims
he fires
he's dead

Oo, your 're right, he only thought of her as a "wild beast," not a monster. Sorry, I thought he'd use monster instead of "wild beast" to emphasize her strength. But I like "wild beast" better, cuz you know..it has a little craziness and madness also which is always fun. :D

But Gasp! you say, But she let Hayate go back to Nagi, that must mean she's not selfish at all! Well, the 'I want my beloved to be happy' bit is nice and all, but I'm left with the feeling that if they did still manage to hook up, she'd revert to ordering Hayate to take care of her and kicking him in the stomach if he tried to protest. Considering that
-She doesn't bat an eyelash when Hayate mentions that he hasn't had a girlfriend the entire time they were apart due to not being financially responsible enough
-She says she plans to teach Machina some things, most likely the same stuff she taught Hayate
-The first thing she does once freed from Midas is to use Hayate as furniture
I'd say that that aspect of her hasn't changed at all since EotW.

(And by the way, fanboys.... making up cute little excuses for Athena's actions or talking about how much you lied them isn't going to improve my opinion of her. Or of you, for that matter.)
Are you kidding, Neyichigo God onee-san?

And here I wanted her to be honest with herself and acted more selfish. I was disappointed that she didn't use her power to cut Hayate's arms and legs to turn him into a tree-like person when she rested on his chest as he was a furniture, and you were worry about such trivial details about her making him a love slave which is the best part of the manga?

musouka

2010-03-20, 13:27

-She doesn't bat an eyelash when Hayate mentions that he hasn't had a girlfriend the entire time they were apart due to not being financially responsible enough

Why should she? There's nothing wrong with being financially independent before starting romantic relationships.

-She says she plans to teach Machina some things, most likely the same stuff she taught Hayate

How to properly clean carpets? The fiend.

-The first thing she does once freed from Midas is to use Hayate as furniture

No, she wasn't sitting on him, she was using him a heater.

(And by the way, fanboys.... making up cute little excuses for Athena's actions or talking about how much you lied them isn't going to improve my opinion of her. Or of you, for that matter.)

Not just boys like Athena, you know...

Anyway, you totally neglect Hayate's own feelings in all this. She never forced him to do anything. She never manipulated him into anything. He fell in love with her and wanted to improve himself because of it, as he outright says in EotW. The EotW arc wasn't about Athena bending Hayate to her will, it was about Hayate gaining confidence in himself and becoming stronger because of it.

Bangirasu

2010-03-20, 13:35

With A-tan arc over I hope the manga finally focus in Himegami.

mitsuganae

2010-03-20, 14:13

I simply want some semblance of humour to return.

GDB

2010-03-20, 14:21

Why should she? There's nothing wrong with being financially independent before starting romantic relationships.

Financially independent in high school?

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-20, 14:35

No, she wasn't sitting on him, she was using him a heater.

So a heater isn't a piece of furniture?

You people talk about how he 'loves' Athena. So you're willing to take him at his word for being so in love with someone he knew ~ten years ago for a few months, and only a few nights recently vs girls he's known a minimum of four months recently?

And there's nothing wrong with this picture, like realizing people change and mature over time, which Athena makes sure Hayate notices. And she focused him on the physical side, while the other girls ignore his 'poor-looking face' and are still attracted to him.
Physical appearance is everything in a relationship, right?

musouka

2010-03-20, 14:55

Financially independent in high school?

To a certain degree. I think high school kids should at least have jobs before they start dating seriously. Kinda puts a dampener on things to have to ask mommy for your allowance before taking your girlfriend to the movies, you know? (Not having a hundred million plus debt would also be a bonus, but if we didn't ignore that, Hayate wouldn't be able to date until his 40's, so...)

So a heater isn't a piece of furniture?

Technically, it's an appliance, not furniture...

So you're willing to take him at his word for being so in love with someone he knew ~ten years ago for a few months, and only a few nights recently vs girls he's known a minimum of four months recently?

Why would I think I know the character better than he does himself? He obviously gave it some thought and weighed his feelings for her against the feelings he had for those girls he'd known for a few months, and concluded that he loved her more than them. (Nagi excluded, natch) Whether or not you think it's logical is ultimately immaterial in the face of what Hayate himself said. Even in this chapter, he told her he loved her in the present tense. It was Athena who put it in past tense.

And there's nothing wrong with this picture, like realizing people change and mature over time, which Athena makes sure Hayate notices. And she focused him on the physical side, while the other girls ignore his 'poor-looking face' and are still attracted to him.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, but might I point out that most of the things that made the girls fall in love with Hayate were things Athena taught him? He was always "nice", but she taught him how to be strong and gentle at the same time, and awoke the desire to protect people within him.

This means that Athena fell in love with him when he was a weak crybaby, whose default position when he saw a girl being attacked was to run away. So if you're talking about physical appearance, it was Athena that saw past his negative exterior and recognized the good in him long before any of the other girls had even met Hayate.

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-20, 15:25

Technically, it's an appliance, not furniture...
If you really want to get technical, there are lots of cases all over where people sit on appliances, thus turning an appliance into a piece of furnature.
They serve similar purposes though. Something that serves some purpose, and you have to avoid walking into it.

Why would I think I know the character better than he does himself? He obviously gave it some thought and weighed his feelings for her against the feelings he had for those girls he'd known for a few months, and concluded that he loved her more than them. (Nagi excluded, natch) Whether or not you think it's logical is ultimately immaterial in the face of what Hayate himself said. Even in this chapter, he told her he loved her in the present tense. It was Athena who put it in past tense.
Only the fans make it out to be loving Athena more than the other girls. His words are 'different' I believe, which I'm fond of pointing out only means that it isn't the same as for the other girls.
I like Athena for a different reason as the other girls, she's dead last (and yet still far from least favorite anime/manga female), and yet I could use the exact same wording Hayate does without regret.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here, but might I point out that most of the things that made the girls fall in love with Hayate were things Athena taught him? He was always "nice", but she taught him how to be strong and gentle at the same time, and awoke the desire to protect people within him.

This means that Athena fell in love with him when he was a weak crybaby, whose default position when he saw a girl being attacked was to run away. So if you're talking about physical appearance, it was Athena that saw past his negative exterior and recognized the good in him long before any of the other girls had even met Hayate.
So they couldn't possibly love him for the personality he's grown from the ten years since her?
Hina is the one who comments when she learns of how Athena taught him that a 'witch' taught him those things.
Izumi is the only one close, and yet she likes him for is something his brother also taught him (by example). Athena put words to it and told him more recently, so that's what came up when he started to turn away, but it was shown that Hayate's brother acts the same way, but only likely spent a few hours at most with her.

We didn't get any true indication that she actually loved Hayate until recently, during the entire EotW arc she never actually says the words.
Kicking someone in the stomach and then when they complain about it calling it the pain of love? Sure, sounds like she loves him a lot.
When did Hayate protect a girl being attacked in the past? It was Izumi's doll that was being attacked, Lucky never gave indication that he was interested in attacking Izumi herself.

Used Can

2010-03-20, 15:25

I think when Athena said Hayate had to be able to financially support a girl she was thinking about a serious, long-term relationship and not just casual dating.

musouka

2010-03-20, 15:55

So they couldn't possibly love him for the personality he's grown from the ten years since her?

The EotW arc was a retcon in order to show exactly how Hayate learned many of the skills and tendencies that would later form the basis of his personality. Unless you think the girls love Hayate for his amazing art forgery detection skills, then, yes, part of the reason they love Hayate is what Athena taught him.

Hina is the one who comments when she learns of how Athena taught him that a 'witch' taught him those things.

Hina doesn't know the full story, and was judging Athena based on a single aspect of what happened. Or would you agree that Hina is "violent and irrational" if another character said that based on what Hayate told them about her?

When Hina met Athena herself, she was obviously very fond of her and didn't think of her as a witch. On the contrary, she wanted to be closer friends with her.

Izumi is the only one close, and yet she likes him for is something his brother also taught him (by example). Athena put words to it and told him more recently, so that's what came up when he started to turn away, but it was shown that Hayate's brother acts the same way, but only likely spent a few hours at most with her.

Hayate had been around his brother for several years (I assume), but it took Athena's encouragement and "words" in order for him to turn around and help save Izumi. Hayate's bro might have been a good example, but Hayate himself wonders if he can live up to the example his brother set. Whereas, when Hayate was with Athena, he wanted to live up to the example she set, and saw the strength of mind he was gaining by being around her.

We didn't get any true indication that she actually loved Hayate until recently, during the entire EotW arc she never actually says the words.

Love is more than words.

Kicking someone in the stomach and then when they complain about it calling it the pain of love? Sure, sounds like she loves him a lot.

It's a joke. Most of the girls that supposedly love Hayate have caused a similar, if not worse, level of pain to him, but only Athena gets tarred with the "abusive girlfriend" brush.

When did Hayate protect a girl being attacked in the past? It was Izumi's doll that was being attacked, Lucky never gave indication that he was interested in attacking Izumi herself.

Oh really? I think you should check again. (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate_the_combat_butler/c183/4.html)

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-20, 17:07

The EotW arc was a retcon in order to show exactly how Hayate learned many of the skills and tendencies that would later form the basis of his personality. Unless you think the girls love Hayate for his amazing art forgery detection skills, then, yes, part of the reason they love Hayate is what Athena taught him.
Yes, they love him for his fighting skills and for his butlering skills. Considering those are what we're shown that she spent most of her time teaching him. Not the personality that he notably didn't have while he was with Athena even at the end.

Oh wait, only one of the girls in his harem even know of his sword skills (Izumi) and only a few know of his butlering skills, though they do assume he's pretty good at such skills, being a butler of the Sanzenin. They also assume by the same token that he'd know 'finishing moves' though by his own words he doesn't.

Hina doesn't know the full story, and was judging Athena based on a single aspect of what happened. Or would you agree that Hina is "violent and irrational" if another character said that based on what Hayate told them about her?
Given that that was clearly shown to be a significant memory of his, as his wording indicates, and not a 'one-of' case by the same token, this would be a logical conclusion, and rather accurately so.
Hina is violent, but irrational? I've only seen one case of her being so, and supposedly the sword was the cause of that (I have my doubts).
Punishing the one you care for and think loves you for showing affection to someone else is common everywhere.

When Hina met Athena herself, she was obviously very fond of her and didn't think of her as a witch. On the contrary, she wanted to be closer friends with her.
Hina is the one who heard those words, got it confirmed that Athena was the one he had mentioned there, and yet shows no regret in those words.
'Witch' does not mean 'evil and I'd never associate with that person'. Notice that Hina has a significantly different personality than Athena, and that their friendship was broken off because of a name Hina wanted to use. Doesn't sound like it was a very strong friendship in the first place.

Hayate had been around his brother for several years (I assume), but it took Athena's encouragement and "words" in order for him to turn around and help save Izumi. Hayate's bro might have been a good example, but Hayate himself wonders if he can live up to the example his brother set. Whereas, when Hayate was with Athena, he wanted to live up to the example she set, and saw the strength of mind he was gaining by being around her.
And Athena set the example of protecting someone else where? She's never shown interacting with anyone but Hayate, Ikuza or Machina, always on a one-on-one interaction and they all seem to be treated to be on the low side of the relationship.
It took Ikuza's words to make him want to go back after hurting Athena.

Love is more than words.

It's a joke. Most of the girls that supposedly love Hayate have caused a similar, if not worse, level of pain to him, but only Athena gets tarred with the "abusive girlfriend" brush.

Most of what we're given of Hayate's relationship with Athena is her attacking him; kicking him in the stomach, attacking him with a lethal sword. A handful of 'neutral' scenes, her teaching him how to be a butler, and another handful of actual affection scenes, asking for a morning kiss. The other scenes are indeterminate.
As opposed to the other girls who's scenes with Hayate are overwhelmingly neutral at worse, while, as a group, the 'abusive' scenes are few and far between and typically no where near the lethal possibility Athena is shown to have.

Oh really? I think you should check again. (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate_the_combat_butler/c183/4.html)

I don't know about you, but I only see a dog leaping for the doll, which she's likely standing over, since she was fighting for before, and it's shown that she has it in the present, so it's likely that she picked it up after Hayate left as well. And given that all that's needed to turn it away is a call from it's master, it doesn't seem like it's all that interested in that either.

Mentar

2010-03-20, 17:20

Oo, your 're right, he only thought of her as a "wild beast," not a monster. Sorry, I thought he'd use monster instead of "wild beast" to emphasize her strength. But I like "wild beast" better, cuz you know..it has a little craziness and madness also which is always fun. :D

You are aware that Hayate actually never thought that, right? That was merely Hina's worry. Hayate thinks of Hina as a "cute, charming and way too defenseless girl".

zodanhko

2010-03-20, 17:24

You are aware that Hayate actually never thought that, right? That was merely Hina's worry. Hayate thinks of Hina as a "cute, charming and way too defenseless girl".
Nope, not her worries. She is a wild beast, at least when she is in a competition.

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate_the_combat_butler/c222/8.html
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate_the_combat_butler/c222/9.html

Mentar

2010-03-20, 17:30

zodanhko

2010-03-20, 17:35

As I said, you're misunderstanding this scene. These are only Hina's thoughts, this is NOT what actually happens. She believes that if she plays to her normal potential, Hayate will come to see her as a non-girly wild beast. Therefore she does NOT and rather botches the reception of the ball.
She was asking Hayate a question, and he replied to her. That was no imagination of her because she ACTUALLY did hit the ball before asking him the question, "Am I amazing?"

Edit: Ahh...I re-read it. I guess I was wrong about her being a wild animal.

Mentar

2010-03-20, 17:46

She was asking Hayate a question, and he replied to her. That was no imagination of her because she ACTUALLY did hit the ball before asking him the question, "Am I amazing?"

No. Look at the left uppermost panel of the first page. Hina starts thinking. "If I do too well, he won't see me as a weak girl anymore." - She then begins to imagine what might happen if she annihilated them, and we see Gilbert and the bot on the floor, battered and _admitting defeat_. Turning to Hayate, wishing to get praised, she imagines him staring at her with cold eyes, calling her a "wild animal". This very thought shocks her so much that she returns from her thoughts with a "!!!" shriek, and subsequently botches the reception.

How do we know that it was just Hina's thoughts? First of all, the game is still ongoing - Gilbert and the bot were not defeated. When Hina played the weak girl, Hayate believed that she might be sick. And what he REALLY thinks of Hina was shown after the match, see THIS page:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/hayate_the_combat_butler/c224/3.html

And that was even AFTER Hina mauled them with max power. Why would Hayate have such an extreme change of heart?

zodanhko

2010-03-20, 17:50

At least, we know in her thoughts that she loved for others to praise her for her accomplishment. Sorry, I don't really pay much details to Hina's chapters. =P

GlassesLady

2010-03-20, 17:59

Okay, most of this I'm just looking at and thinking 'man, this is so stupid, I don't even wanna reply', but one remark in particular stood put:

Technically, it's an appliance, not furniture...

Yeah. That just makes it so much better. Really. I'm not being sarcastic at all.
No, seriously, are you guys reading what you're typing?....

I'm also not sure we could even put Hayate's own words about Athena to any good use here; considering how romantically inept he always is, even if he says he loves her most, how do we know he's not just misinterpreting his own feelings or something? I'm not really convinced.

zodanhko

2010-03-20, 18:25

If you can find a chapter where he says he loved/loves a girl (any) besides Athena throughout the 264 chapters( I know that's not much), you'll be a legend Neyichigo-san.

Yeah...For all we know, he could be in love with Tama or Klaus, and he doesn't know right. Or Nagi likes Hayate because he resembles her mother and "considering how romantically inept she is." Or Hina loves was false "considering how romantically inept she is." They are beginners, right?

Believe me, Hayate had romantic experiences far greater than those two above. The feelings that started 10 years ago and lasted for 10 years unlike those two who's for some months.

musouka

2010-03-20, 19:16

Yeah. That just makes it so much better. Really. I'm not being sarcastic at all.
No, seriously, are you guys reading what you're typing?....

I'm more worried that you're taking obvious jokes seriously, to be honest. Though maybe that's why you keep on insisting Athena is an abusive nightmare...

Koroshiya_Kame_13

2010-03-20, 19:46

In terms of being abusive to Hayate, I'll say that Nagi takes the lead by far. Ayumu and Hinagiku are probably the only ones who didn't abuse Hayate.

Game8910

2010-03-20, 19:56

Hina is the one who heard those words, got it confirmed that Athena was the one he had mentioned there, and yet shows no regret in those words.

I could laugh at this, seriously...

Is that single line of Hina really so important and deep that she herself would have to sit and re-think to herself what she said when she confirmed Athena as Hayate's ex girlfriend? Such an insignificant little spur of the moment line really needs to stop being brought up so often...

Most of what we're given of Hayate's relationship with Athena is her attacking him; kicking him in the stomach, attacking him with a lethal sword. A handful of 'neutral' scenes, her teaching him how to be a butler, and another handful of actual affection scenes, asking for a morning kiss. The other scenes are indeterminate.
As opposed to the other girls who's scenes with Hayate are overwhelmingly neutral at worse, while, as a group, the 'abusive' scenes are few and far between and typically no where near the lethal possibility Athena is shown to have.
Its called being a tsundere, you should know of this already.

"Most of what we're given of Hayate's relationship with Hinagiku is her yelling at him; attacking him with sticks/weapons (only happened twice in the story so far but since u seem to be mentioning 1 time things in your list I thought I should too), giving him evil auras. A handful of 'neutral' scenes, and scoopful of actual dere dere scenes, asking for a birthday present. The other scenes are indeterminate."
Look how easy that was, I just took your paragraph and changed a couple words here and there and we summed up a lot of Hina/Hayate moments as well.

And the reason other characters dont do the same might just be cause more than half of them are too busy getting near heart attacks just by being close to Hayate :\ (except Ayumu)

I'm also not sure we could even put Hayate's own words about Athena to any good use here; considering how romantically inept he always is, even if he says he loves her most, how do we know he's not just misinterpreting his own feelings or something? I'm not really convinced.

If you are not willing to accept the words that the actual main character of the story tells you, then you might as well stop reading arguments since its obvious nothing that is said and/or happens on the story will change your already pre-set mind about Athena

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-20, 20:32

Look how easy that was, I just took your paragraph and changed a couple words here and there and we summed up a lot of Hina/Hayate moments as well.

And the reason other characters dont do the same might just be cause more than half of them are too busy getting near heart attacks just by being close to Hayate :\ (except Ayumu)
I find it amusing that you think changing a few words makes a viable counter-claim. The claim was that Athena attacks with lethal force, while the others' attacks clearly aren't even intended to be lethal.

aldw

2010-03-20, 21:10

I find it amusing that you think changing a few words makes a viable counter-claim. The claim was that Athena attacks with lethal force, while the others' attacks clearly aren't even intended to be lethal.

Athena only ever attacked that way due to Midas and not herself, so I wouldn't take that at face value.

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-20, 21:12

Athena only ever attacked that way due to Midas and not herself, so I wouldn't take that at face value.

So it was Midas who trained Hayate how to use a sword, and Midas who taught him that he had to be financially able to support a girl before he could have a girlfriend?

zodanhko

2010-03-20, 21:18

So it was Midas who trained Hayate how to use a sword, and Midas who taught him that he had to be financially able to support a girl before he could have a girlfriend?
Did you not aware how Athena made the swords break using her magic? So, Hayate could survive. That means Athena NEVER intended to hurt him in the first place which she had always been doing during her training with him.
This "lethal" force was already proven to be wrong the moment Hayate thanks her for going easy on him during their battle.

Midas can surely influenced her which is what Aldw meant.

Game8910

2010-03-20, 22:31

So it was Midas who trained Hayate how to use a sword, and Midas who taught him that he had to be financially able to support a girl before he could have a girlfriend?
wait are you actually saying that you thought Athena's sword training was her attacking at lethal force? :twitch: Please dont tell me that what ur trying to say

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-20, 22:35

wait are you actually saying that you thought Athena's sword training was her attacking at lethal force? :twitch: Please dont tell me that what ur trying to say

There is a reason bamboo swords exist. They were using real swords. Non-blunted real swords, ones that you wouldn't use for training unless you were training with lethal force.

zodanhko

2010-03-20, 22:42

There is a reason bamboo swords exist. They were using real swords. Non-blunted real swords, ones that you wouldn't use for training unless you were training with lethal force.
OMG! Hayate was so injured after the training that he was still able to kiss Athena and run through the hall of the castle with her under the golden sunlight. To be honest, your statement of her attacking him with such a deadly force during the training was so lethal that I could die of laughter...:heh:

They were trained with lethal weapons, not her attacking with lethal force, Bastion-kun. He would be dead otherwise...

babohtea

2010-03-20, 22:46

There is a reason bamboo swords exist. They were using real swords. Non-blunted real swords, ones that you wouldn't use for training unless you were training with lethal force.

You are wrong! Dojos everywhere use real swords. At high level training, they all use real swords. And real swords can be safe if they are ENHANCED WITH MAGIC, HINT HINT.

WhiteWings

2010-03-21, 04:38

You are wrong! Dojos everywhere use real swords. At high level training, they all use real swords. And real swords can be safe if they are ENHANCED WITH MAGIC, HINT HINT.

But if the swords are 'safe' it would make it less effective to use even in training or practice since the participants know it's 'safe' and might subconsciously react to that fact as opposed to using a 'real' sword.

Magic = Duct tape? :)

leoblack9

2010-03-21, 08:37

But if the swords are 'safe' it would make it less effective to use even in training or practice since the participants know it's 'safe' and might subconsciously react to that fact as opposed to using a 'real' sword.

Magic = Duct tape? :)

Safe or not safe, its going to hurt, hard. I doubt it taht it gives a psychological edge when against a non-lethal weapon such as a bamboo sword, when it might probably give you more problems such as a broken body part (since any blunt object thrown at you at high speed would definitely hurt) rather than the sword (which would most likely lacerate and well, kill you faster, saving you the pain =D).

Anyway, I haven't seen Hayate go against Hina seriously yet so I've yet to imagine your situation.

babohtea

2010-03-21, 10:14

Actually, real swords behave a little bit differently from bamboo swords. I don't have enough experience regarding it, but trust me, a lot of skilled martial artists would actually be offended if you asked them to spar with a bamboo sword. It's like a "what, you think I'll mess up?" kind of thing.

zodanhko

2010-03-21, 10:41

It doesn't really matter what the swords are made of, and too bad for Hayate that Athena could only summon real swords. The strength differences between Athena and Hayate was very clear. She had no problem training Hayate with lethal weapons without hurting him or harming herself. That's just to show her level of mastery which was why Hayate became so efficient in such a short amount of time.

ridgezipline

2010-03-21, 10:48

:topicoff: :D hello!

We didn't get any true indication that she actually loved Hayate until recently, during the entire EotW arc she never actually says the words.
Kicking someone in the stomach and then when they complain about it calling it the pain of love? Sure, sounds like she loves him a lot.

you're looking at that aspect waaaay too much..
kissing and flirting suggest she likes him a lot, if you dont want to call it love :heh:

I could laugh at this, seriously...

Is that single line of Hina really so important and deep that she herself would have to sit and re-think to herself what she said when she confirmed Athena as Hayate's ex girlfriend? Such an insignificant little spur of the moment line really needs to stop being brought up so often...

yep, at that moment it becomes too trivial a detail if the person you like just confessed the he's been in love with someone else for 10 years...

babohtea

2010-03-21, 10:53

What line from Hina are we talking about, here?

I don't think little kids can eloquently describe their love. I mean, even to their parents you get stuff like "MY BESTEST DAD". XD

Game8910

2010-03-21, 11:16

What line from Hina are we talking about, here?

I don't think little kids can eloquently describe their love. I mean, even to their parents you get stuff like "MY BESTEST DAD". XD

her saying "So that little witch is the reason for his twisted mentality" back when Hayate explained to them about how he cant get a girlfriend if he isnt financially reliable.

I really dont understand why such a line which was obviously meant as a joke almost 100 chapters before Athena enters the picture keeps being brought up by people when they try to make arguments against Athena and Hayate's relationship...oh well I guess digging through anything is valid in these things

ridgezipline

2010-03-21, 11:20

What line from Hina are we talking about, here?

I don't think little kids can eloquently describe their love. I mean, even to their parents you get stuff like "MY BESTEST DAD". XD

the one where hina refer athena as a 'witch' (i think o_o)

yep most kids are just trying to identify what their feelings are, but they are capable of expressing them well in their own ways :)

alu546

2010-03-21, 13:17

I just decided to catch up on the Hayate manga after having it on hiatus for a few years, actually having left it right before the introduction of Athena. As of now I have cleared the end of the world arc(187ish), and I would like to offer up my own personal view having read the event back to back vs reading them over the course of a few years plus a bit of speculative opinion ill be using when viewing the current events descibed here.

First a little hhistory, Ive been using this thread to spoil myself since the end of the world arc, so eh.

Anyway, I have found that the events described here are never nearly as cut and dried as what is descibed here. For instance, the end of the world arc was not nearly as groundbreaking as I was lead to believe, although I do think it was a touching story in and of itself, however judging from the end of the arc and even with taking these events with a grain of salt the arc seems to have totally shifted the foundation of the story. Like I imagine one or two of you have previously stated, its like the author went on a wild tangent, and went in a completely new direction with his story right in the middle of it.

Its a complaint that goes beyond shipping wars. Athena is a good character in her own right, but I feel she completely deserved her own story instead of the authors attempt to cram EVERY STORY HE HAS EVER CAME UP WITH into one and then insering her so late in the manga in order to take the lead as the main love interest. If and when that is tranlated to anime, I dont think itll go over well with the audience either.

So Ill be suspending my disbelief for now when taking these events into account. As I catch up Ill post further opinion if anyone finds it interesting.

zodanhko

2010-03-21, 13:43

....I feel she completely deserved her own story instead of the authors attempt to cram EVERY STORY HE HAS EVER CAME UP WITH into one and then insering her so late in the manga in order to take the lead as the main love interest.

Athena was created by and for this story alone as she was the intended to be the female lead. Nagi's character was derived from Athena, and they were also intended to be the same character. I guess Athena was too capable and independent as a mistress to give the butler time to shine.

GlassesLady

2010-03-21, 13:59

Athena was created by and for this story alone as she was the intended to be the female lead. Nagi's character was derived from Athena, and they were also intended to be the same character. I guess Athena was too capable and independent as a mistress to give the butler time to shine.
Uh, no, Mr. Did-Not-Do-The-Research, Athena's story was originally some other manga called 'Royal Garden', but no one liked it enough for it to become a series so Hata shoehorned it into HnG.

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-21, 14:02

her saying "So that little witch is the reason for his twisted mentality" back when Hayate explained to them about how he cant get a girlfriend if he isnt financially reliable.

I really dont understand why such a line which was obviously meant as a joke almost 100 chapters before Athena enters the picture keeps being brought up by people when they try to make arguments against Athena and Hayate's relationship...oh well I guess digging through anything is valid in these things

Actually, I'm referring to the line in the current arc, when Hina finds out that Athena is the one who taught him that. It's just a throwaway line when it's said, but significantly less when it's not taken back after she realizes that this is the girl Hayate 'loves'.

It's notably right after his 'confession', which I am amused I can use the exact same wording, and I don't think there's any question about my feelings for her.

Given that we're told that in the hands of the inexperienced, the sword the inexperienced one is holding is the more dangerous, by Hina even, I don't think it matters what Athena can do with a sword. Hayate hasn't handled a sword most likely before this, but he's trained with a real sword?
We're shown that many of the materials for making a bamboo sword exist in the garden, so saying that Athena can only summon real swords is rather immaterial.

Are we forgetting that Athena kicked Hayate to teach him other lessons and when he was complaining that it hurt he was essentially told 'quit crying you baby'?
This is on top of the sword fighting training.

zodanhko

2010-03-21, 14:07

Uh, no, Mr. Did-Not-Do-The-Research, Athena's story was originally some other manga called 'Royal Garden', but no one liked it enough for it to become a series so Hata shoehorned it into HnG.
Yes, did you?
The intended to be main characters in the "Royal Garden" were Hayate and Athena (the very same characters right now). The title "Royal Garden" was changed to "Hayate to Gotoku," not a different manga.

Used Can

2010-03-21, 14:51

Actually, from what I've heard, Royal Garden wasn't going to have a harem. It was just a mistress and her butler, but since harems sell well, and tunderes were very popular, they decided to make some changes.

I think, in the end, sales levels for these volumes will have the final say on whether the more serious storyline would have been a good idea or not (well, back then it may have been different though). It's worked for Negima fairly well.

Game8910

2010-03-21, 14:57

Are we forgetting that Athena kicked Hayate to teach him other lessons and when he was complaining that it hurt he was essentially told 'quit crying you baby'?
This is on top of the sword fighting training.
you would never survive boot camp

Bastion_Arcion

2010-03-21, 15:05

you would never survive boot camp

So you're saying a six-year-old would be able to?

zodanhko

2010-03-21, 15:24

Given that we're told that in the hands of the inexperienced, the sword the inexperienced one is holding is the more dangerous, by Hina even, I don't think it matters what Athena can do with a sword. Hayate hasn't handled a sword most likely before this, but he's trained with a real sword?
We're shown that many of the materials for making a bamboo sword exist in the garden, so saying that Athena can only summon real swords is rather immaterial..
Inexperienced sword holders are dangerous for others because they have no control and hit randomly. And as you can see, Athena had no problem dealing with that fact.

When I said Athena could only summon real swords, I wasn't denying Athena that could train Hayate with plastic swords or paper sword; you know, for safety purposes. But those swords are not neccessary if the teacher is highly skilled, and Athena was confident that she will bring harm to neither Hayate or herself. That's that.

The 6 years old Hayate could probably beat the crap out of any kendo students under Hina; you know, those guys with bamboo swords. That makes me want to see Nagi train under Athena for a year. Nagi vs Hina. =D

Are we forgetting that Athena kicked Hayate to teach him other lessons and when he was complaining that it hurt he was essentially told 'quit crying you baby'?
This is on top of the sword fighting training.
I want to see Athena gives him some more kicking.