Kanon - 2006 - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Catgirls]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Kanon, Episode 10.

Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for raws.
Try to keep spoilers from the game or manga out of the anime thread.
If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the game or manga, either PM them or use clearly marked spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.


Spoiler Tag ExampleDon't forget to use a title for the spoiler!...becomes...Don't forget to use a title for the spoiler!

[Orrin]

Well this episode is probably the best 24 minutes of anime i have seen this year, first time I'll give away a perfect 10. This was just so much...

I don't want to spoil anything even with tags so I won't say anything more.

[Celia]

Personally, I didn't like this episode... And Makoto is my favorite Kanon girl.
I'm not sure what it was, but the way they handled it could have went a lot better. This episode had the real potential to be a cry fest, and I barely shed one tear. (And I'm not emotionless either, this is coming from the girl who cried for 20 minutes straight while playing Planetarian.)
I actually chuckled when Makoto vanished. The way they did it was just way to sudden, and not very dramatic at all. It just seemed so random that it would go from dramatic slow-motion dying to... just gone. I like the way the first series had her go; with the explosion of sparkles. It was almost like the fireworks, which Makoto so loved. I think the original series handled her ending a lot better, though it was a bit rushed. All in all, I'm disappointed with the way KyoAni went about Makoto's arc. While it was nice seing her fleshed out more, having her be the first girl to go AND the way they did it was just two thumbs down for me.
Though, I can't say I'm 100% disappointed. The animation was stunning, as usual, and the Mishio/Makoto scenes were wonderful. So I have it a seven out of ten. The episode was good, but not the great it had the potential to be.
On other notes, no Ayu or Mai either. Though it seems like we'll be getting plenty of them in the next episode. (Is that Ayu's cooking on the table??)

[Leo_Otaku]

I thought it was handled very well,

She disappears the same way in the game, unlike how Toei made it. Though I liked in the Toei version, how he was a little more saddened that she was gone so suddenly. I really liked the included wedding scene I liked that part alot and how they showed the photo at the end.

I thought it was done very well, actually. Mishio's extended character was very interesting too.

Mai's arc next ^-^

[Mentar]

I've got to say I have to disagree. In my opinion, the way KyoAni handled it was outstanding. A solid 9 again.

[Cyz]

Episode 10 screenshots (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2006/12/07/kanon-10/) courtesy of Random Curiosity. Have the tissue ready for this one :heh: Hmm...I'm beginning to miss Ayu :upset: Wonder what she was doing when this is happening?

[panzerfan]

My god... the beginning when Akiko-san says "Mommy will have fun with you" already has my stomach upset. When Amano's introduction to Makoto, I was only surprised when Makoto calls Yuiichi's name as well.
The birthday scene is just sobering. The firework that comes afterward...
and Akiko sending her off is stinging to me.
I love this Yuiich far more personally.

At anyrate... it wasn't as battering as I've dread it to be. The graphics seem a bit off in some places... but anyway. Maybe it's because I've long expected it coming.

[Vexx]

I kind of see what Celia is lamenting..... the end "special effect" seemed a bit more in the 2002 version ... but the run up in this version is stellar ...

(stellar as in my chest aches now)

[Sushi-Y]

Personally, I really liked this episode. It wasn't destructive as I thought it would be, probably because I know the story too well. Then again, crying is not my objective anyway. :heh:

They really stressed Makoto's "cute pet property" here, she's too adorable. ^^

I think they tied the ending up pretty nicely, the wedding scene was beautiful, the lighting, the sky, the rustling sound of grass... Although we take it for granted by now, it really reminds you of Kyoani's quality when it comes to details.

The last conversation with Mishio was also great. For some people, Mishio's tsundere-ness here is probably even more significant than the actual story. :heh:
Next week will be the start of Mai's route, it seems...
We're an important point here: will Kyoani really be able to "weave" everything into one story? Will we see references to Makoto's events, or will Yuuichi simply pretend nothing happened and move on to his next targe... I mean, move on with his life? :heh:

[houkoholic]

I agree that the Toei version had more impact compared with the Kyoani version, but deep down, the Toei version made a fundemental error by going with pure impact and this again made Kyoani's handling better. The error has to do with the message the execution conveyed across.


By making Makoto disappear when Yuuichi was carrying her up the hill, Toei did successfully made a very impacting and sad scene, however it also conveyed a sense of dispear and hopelessness. Toei Makoto disappeared with her wishes unfulfilled. Where is the miricale in this? Focusing on the "crying" part is nice and all, but this is not what Kanon is about. And thus they had to fix it with the extra episode but in the end it felt like they're just cheaply playing with your emotions

Kyoani, otoh, made great effort in protarying Makoto spending her last moments happy, and she passed away happy, she left smiling. She got what she wanted, and Yuuichi made it happen, he was there until the very end. The monologue at the end was a nice touch. It adds a lot more depth to Yuuichi as a character, at least he felt he has done everything he can to make Makoto happy. Yuuichi's composure, his handling of the situation, his maturity shows that he can now let Makoto go. The family theme, father-daughter relationship is much more apparent in Kyoani's version. It's a bittersweat ending, yet this is consistant with the message Kanon is about.

Even as a game player, I must confess that Toei's version did left me with a teary eye at first too, whereas Kyoani's version didn't. However, the bittersweat ending of Kyoani's version once again shows that they have a much deeper understanding of what Kanon is really about.


Next episode has both Mai and Ayu's elements in it. I'm happy to see, but not surprised, that they're going to weave Ayu's part into Mai's story.

[Greenish Growth]

You raise a good point Houkoholic.

This might mean that the other girl's stories might not end up quite as dramatic as I thought they would in this second series. I figured that increased accuracy and length would increase the drama, but that was a mistaken assumption on my part.

I'll adjust my expectations accordingly and continue to enjoy the scenes I didn't get to see in the first series. :)

[Meophist]

Kyoto Animation just exceeded my expectations ten-fold. When I was expecting the end, I wasn't expecting this. Just simply incredible. Absolutely perfect.

I wonder if we'll see Mishio-san again…

[todkapuz]

I'm glad I wasn't as teary as I was in the Toei version.... i agree with the spoilered comments.... this is the way I thought Kanon should be when it came to this important scene.

taht being said.... I WANT MAI!!!!!!!!! ... looks like we might get a bit more of her fun next time.

[KenOhki'sRage]

Owari da yo. I tried very hard, so I didn't cry. I'll say no more till everyone's seen it.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Akiko saying itterasshai and then wiping away tears was the moment for me. What a wonderful episode of anime.

I have sometimes felt before that KyoAni doesn't wring as much emotion from scenes, here or in AIR, as they might. But I see them going for that bittersweet feeling rather than a sob-fest, and also looking at the emotional arc of the whole story. There was an underlying positive feeling there, in the end. And Sugita Tomokazu is just great.

[Thelastguardian]

I will keep my thoughts brief :)

I thought KyoAni would whor- I mean concentrate on the game cg where Makoto holds onto her silk mask against the sunset backdrop.

I guess Toei's version is more emotionally impactful because they gave that scene more than the 1 second shot in KyoAni's version:heh: . As someone said, Toei's version may not had the best strategy.




I don't have much thoughts throughout this episode except...Yuuichi, I noticed you said many stuff like "we will always be together" and "I like you the most" and "let's get marry" .


Don't you have 4 more girls to attack? :heh: You can't just use up all the reserve lines for the 1st girl can you? :heh:

/I kid I kid

Anyway, the next episode is going to advance both Ayu and Mai combine. You can see this from episode 11's title - intermezzo

An intermezzo is somewhat like the interlude between movements.

[houkoholic]

I don't have much thoughts throughout this episode except...Yuuichi, I noticed you said many stuff like "we will always be together" and "I like you the most" and "let's get marry" .


yuuichi only said "I really liked you". So he is "safe". :)

The marry part, definitely not romantic on Yuuichi's part. He's just doing it to fulfill Makoto's wish.

[panzerfan]

I can't help but to think of the last episodes of AIR regarding Makoto's arc. Looking back to it, I think that the sheer intensity of the last parts as well as the emotional intensity coming from Haruko-san ebb at the heart without mercy... unlike Kanon, where there seems to be some relief in how the characters retain strength, AIR sees Haruko breaking down in front of you which might just be why is it that I felt horrible sitting through the last arc.

Well, the moment that Yuiichi aludes to family, I just can't help it but think back to that...


SOS theater can do the AIR arc pretty good. Mikuru as Misuzu and Tsuruya-san as Haruko-san, with Kyon as Sora, Koizumi as Keisuke (Misuzu's dad)...

[Mentar]

I know now why TWH-Sprocket were so quick with their release today. They surely wanted to get it over with...

Working on this ep is killing me ;_;

[TougeSil80]

Great ep. It's an very sad end for Makoto, but at least Yuuichi did his best to fullfill her wish. I didn't watch the 2002 version, but I think Kyoani handled this very well.

[VRMN]

Having watched it, this episode is an easy ten from me. Brilliantly handled, with the correct focus (IMO) on the miracle of Makoto's story, rather than a focus solely on the tragedy of her passing.

Well done, KyoAni.

[velocity7]

Working on this ep is killing me ;_;

:D;;;

Don't worry too much. It's quite painful on our end too, though maybe not as much. I had spoiled myself as much as possible on this scene right when episode 9 had aired, and gave myself like a week, so.

I had also seen some of the summaries of how Makoto was handled in the TOEI version and I'd have to say...

Yeah, I agree with you guys. Kanon was more of the miracle themes and more about the characters involved. How TOEI handled Makoto made it look hopeless and disappointing until Kazahana came around, but if you needed that then you've already lost sight of what Kanon is supposed to be.

Anyone notice how Mishio has changed dramatically ever since she met Makoto? Juset a while ago she was like a Nagato Yuki-character and now she's like Kaori... almost. Those two are on par! D: I hope to see more of the two during the series.

... yeah, why are my favorite girls the ones who aren't the main girls?

yuuichi only said "I really liked you". So he is "safe".

I think you missed the point there. Guys can tell girls "I really like you" or "I love you" and that could be taken as actual love. In the case of Yuuichi here, he seems more like the brother-like or father-like figure that really wanted to take care of Makoto. Context is something you should take into account instead rather than what Yuuichi actually says. Besides, if a father says he loves or likes his daughter, would that usually imply family love or something more... forbidden? ;)

[Cyz]

SS-Eclipse version is out. Go and download it now :)

[houkoholic]

:
I think you missed the point there.

O rly?

Check my post. I was the first one to point out the whole father-daughter thing. ;)

[guuchan]

It stays so loyal to the game it even ends with the final CG of Makoto's route.

Anyway, even though this is my 3rd time seeing this (1st time from TOEI, 2nd time from game), the moment before she disappeared still got my eyes watery for a moment. IMO it's nicely done, the impact was short but strong, despite that if I was the scriptwriter I would prolong that scene for just a little bit more. I enjoyed this epsiode.

[Julius Firefocht]

The pack of tissue paper I had invested in came into good use. Sounds funny, but I was weeping for almost half the episode. Makoto is my favourite girl out of the bunch and it just hurts to see her go.


I am guessing Makoto is not totally gone? Since the very last scene at the end of this episode implies that she makes a return of some kind.

[npal]

And there goes my best Kanon arc. Snif. As heart-breaking as I remember it.

[IRJustman]

I am guessing Makoto is not totally gone? Since the very last scene at the end of this episode implies that she makes a return of some kind.

As I'd said in another thread, Kanon's all about miracles, large and small. Since I've not played the game so I cannot tell how that truly plays out.

However, you do bring up an interesting point I was only sorta thinking about. Seeing Makoto there and, more than that, your remark made me think of one thing just now: Spock's casket at the end of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan with Yuuichi's answer to Mishio's quesiton of what kind of miracle he'd wish for being a catalyst of sorts. If anything, it seems to at the very leastleave a door cracked. You can't really tell for sure whether Makoto's alive or dead in this shot. She's just lying there with Piro sidling up to her.

That brings me to a minor point of curiosity, I wonder if we'll get to see anymore of Piro throughout the series.

--Ian.

[Shiroth]

I'm glad to see they're using more & more BGM's from the recollections soundtrack, there are many beautiful pieces on there that worked perfectly for this episode.

Anyway, of course a great episode - Kyoani did a wonderful job with this one. Now i'm pretty concerned about next episode. Looks like its Mai's turn this time - though the meet up between Nayuki & Ayu.. that'll be interesting.

[Meophist]

I think this might be the best anime episode I've ever seen. I already said it exceeded my expectations tenfold, and since my expectations was 10/10, this is an 11/10(it's on a base-10 logarithmic scale).

Makoto's VA is just great throughout the entire episode, as was Yuuichi's. This is the first time I really remember VA work actually surprising me as how good it is.

On the other hand, Akiko seemed a bit off, and since when did Amano become Shiroi? In any case, despite knowing what'll happen, it was like watching again for the first time. Incredible, simply incredible.

[Skyfall]

Hm, this episode certainly did not go as i had expected it in terms of emotions - i was expecting a tearjerker. Not saying this is a bad thing tho - despite the painful events happening this leaves you with a good feeling inside. Nice, bittersweet ending, more sweet than bitter i would say. Makoto passed away peacefuly with a samile and without much of a dramatic impact.

For me the most emotional scene was in the begining of the ep where Makoto tries to say her and Yuuichi's name - after that scene i was expecting it to get worse emotion-wise, but it ended rather peacefuly. Tho i have to say i am disapointed how they handled the end of Makoto - poof and shes gone. (Tho this disapointment might come from the fact that i was expecting something like Air emotion wise.... tho this version actually might be better suited for Kanon, because theme here indeed seems more about miracles (unlike Air).

All this time i was bitching about Makoto arc not producing strong enough emotions, but after this ep it makes me think that it was never intended to do so. Rated this with 9.

I am suffering from lack of Shiori and Nayuki...tho it seems i might get to see some more of Nayuki in the next ep. I hope that Kanon will bind the arcs together somewhat - one thing i didn't like about the Makoto arc was the fact that all the other girls seemed to have vanished. I hope this will not be true for the rest of the arcs.

On a side note - what was meant with the scene of Makoto lying on the ground when Piro walks up to her? I doubt that such a seemingly important scene would be added for the heck of it. Makoto vanished, and now we see her again(tho it's not clear wether she is dead or not)... and since Piro was there i assume it was not a dream-scene or something like that. Could this have something to do with the miracle Amano asked Yuuichi about in the end? Hm...

[npal]

Not producing strong enough emotions??

*scratches head

I must be watching another series :p

[Mentar]

Skyfall and IJ: I think that this was pretty clear.

Shiori asked Yuuichi what he'd wish for if there were such a thing as miracles, to which Yuuichi responds that he wouldn't even have to think about it - cue a whitein effect and show Makoto peacefully napping on her hill in human form, together with Piro.

That's the miracle Yuuichi would wish for without hesitation: Makoto alive, back and happy.

[Deathkillz]

just finnished the ep and immediatly i keep saying "wh!? ~ wha!? ~ what!?"
just to make sure...makoto is de*d right?

well ont the ep as a whole ~
well it wasnt much of a tear jerker as i thought but it was close ~ maybe its because we all know that the inevitable was gonna happen anyway and that this helped me to brace myself before the nasty bit hit on ~ was clost tho i have to say >.<

final ep devoted to makoto...this is just stunning the way it was handled :)
yuuichi is one of the kindest guys ive ever seen...he is a god! taking care of makoto until the very end its soo touching >.<

makoto's "auu" has gotten through to me deeply...the way she struggled to say a word...its painful for the soul to watch but in the end a peaceful "death" with Piro next to her (i guess thats the last we will see of Piro if makoto doesnt come back)

ahh well painful time come and pass...hmm it seems that next ep nayuki hits the spotlight *waits for shiori*

[Skyfall]

Skyfall and IJ: I think that this was pretty clear.

Shiori asked Yuuichi what he'd wish for if there were such a thing as miracles, to which Yuuichi responds that he wouldn't even have to think about it - cue a whitein effect and show Makoto peacefully napping on her hill in human form, together with Piro.

That's the miracle Yuuichi would wish for without hesitation: Makoto alive, back and happy.

I supose that it could be that, but i doubt it is pretty clear :) Somehow it would feel wayyy too cheesy if Makoto would appear A.Ok just like that.... assuming it is so..remember the price of a miracle ? :) Oh, and it was not Shiori who asked that, but Amano.


Not producing strong enough emotions??

*scratches head

I must be watching another series


Remember - i am pretty far from being an emotional person :)

[kingdom_elladrel]

Dang. Can't wait to get home from my job in this prison called "the office cubicle" and download episode 10.

[npal]

Remember - i am pretty far from being an emotional person :)

LOL, judging from the other posts, I must have moved to the over-emotional group :p Well, at least I can say I enjoyed this episode, in that perverted "do your worst - ouch, that hurt, thanks" kind of way :p

[Mentar]

Ack! You're right of course, it was Amano - Typo.

Kanon is all about miracles in the end, and depending on the path Yuuichi takes, different miracles will happen. I think that the connection is relatively obvious here because of the blendover - and the milky-white effect is supposed to indicate that this is not the reality.

Let's see where it goes :)

[Cyz]

My heart is crushed after seeing ep. 10. Anyway, it was a great episode to finish Makoto's story. The end scenes before Makoto disappear...that was heart crushing. I don't get the part where Makoto is sleeping at the end though.

-- Next episode....Ayu's back! About time she got back :heh:

[Matt Soulblade]

Auuuu... its over :(
But it was great. All of it. The scene of the dissapearance was also great, it was unspected to me (I was especting the clich&#233; vanishment of the 2002 version).
The wedding part was also a big win. Time to stop being lazy and make an avatar I guess :P
And as someone said earlier, Makoto VA did an incredible work, along with Yuiichi's VA who was great too, as always. If I have to give a 10 to this episode its because of the work of those seiiyus.
10/10 ;)

[Cyz]

No more Auu and back to Uguu :heh:

[Pellissier]

I think that the connection is relatively obvious here because of the blendover - and the milky-white effect is supposed to indicate that this is not the reality.
And besides the milky-white effect, what comes after? A typical springy landscape, sunny, supposedly warm, blue sky. Exactly what Makoto wished for ("If only spring could last forever").
Not only Yuuichi had clear his wish, he had the whole scenario in his mind. He didn't miss a single detail, not even Piro. How nice of him.

Although actually my alternative key of lecture was: maybe it will come a day, when the spring will return, in which Makoto will be up there on the hill again. :)

---

Now, as for episode 10. A lot were already said.
I too, expected more of a tearjerker, but I was also satisfied with KyoAni resolution (mind: I've watched Toei too). KyoAni made in a more classy way what Toei made more emotionally.

I found the first half of the episode more touching. Makoto losing strenght and human abilites more and more, her innocent "Auuu", Yuuchi's fatherly figure, Akiko shredding a tear after waving bye, the meeting with Amano. All really well done.
On the second half, the wedding scene (wind/grass effects spectacular once again) was great. As their last moment together. The vanishing was a bit sudden, maybe, but I found it impactful nonetheless.
Seen how the whole episode were dealt, I wouldn't change a bit of it.

And that final scene.... (speechless) ... It was nice :)

10/10

On next episode we'll probably get to see all the girls again. I'm not expecting the show to clearly take a path next week. As it was said "Intermezzo" (italian word) stands as something transitional between two distinguished events. So I think next episode may be considered a break after the emotional rollercoaster of Makoto's arc, and before beginning the next route.
Still, probably hints on who the next girl will be could be given, the preview seems to suggest Mai, I'd be hoping for Shiori, but it's going to be good anyway :)

[IRJustman]

And besides the milky-white effect, what comes after? A typical springy landscape, sunny, supposedly warm, blue sky. Exactly what Makoto wished for ("If only spring could last forever").
Not only Yuuichi had clear his wish, he had the whole scenario in his mind. He didn't miss a single detail, not even Piro. How nice of him.

Okay, I'll admit I hadn't quite thought of it this way, though the fact it was a spring setting while it was the dead of winter was nagging at me. That should have been my biggest clue. ;)

Goes to show ya that I really should be setting my plot-point detectors to "high-sensitivity" mode. ;)

Although actually my alternative key of lecture was: maybe it will come a day, when the spring will return, in which Makoto will be up there on the hill again. :)

Hence my reference to Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan's final scene. ;)

--Ian.

[Sorrow-K]

It was different from the Toei version, which is welcome. I actually can't say one is better than the other, though. While Toei went purely for emotional impact, KyoAni went for storytelling and the result was the bittersweet ending we got, which as Skyfall said, is more sweet than bitter. Both have their merits, depending on what you want out of this anime.

Most of all, I'm just glad Amano wasn't just a throwaway plot device this time round.

[Pakxenon]

Brilliant episode, even though I am a little sleepy (I was crossed between feeling sleepy and emotional, but it turned out to be the former). Needless to say, great story portrayal. However, I'm not sure about the big veil shot... either Yuuichi disappeared or there's some sort of vortexial paradox going on on the hill...

[Haruyasha]

Can someone please explain what happened here:

Shows Makoto on top of the hill and the cat is pushing on her arm... what exactly is that suppose to be? Didn't she disappear? Or is that a dream?

[IRJustman]

Can someone please explain what happened here:

Shows Makoto on top of the hill and the cat is pushing on her arm... what exactly is that suppose to be? Didn't she disappear? Or is that a dream?

Remember the wish she made that one day when Yuuichi commented on how she seems to hate cold? Notably about spring. I said I sorta missed it earlier in a prior post.

--Ian.

[Deathkillz]

Remember the wish she made that one day when Yuuichi commented on how she seems to hate cold? Notably about spring. I said I sorta missed it earlier in a prior post.

--Ian.
yea but is she alive? or is her body just left there to rot? T_T

[Shiroth]

yea but is she alive? or is her body just left there to rot? T_T
Its nothing you should take seriously - just think of it as a dream for her.

[ApathyEcstasy]

Hm, this episode certainly did not go as i had expected it in terms of emotions - i was expecting a tearjerker. Not saying this is a bad thing tho - despite the painful events happening this leaves you with a good feeling inside. Nice, bittersweet ending, more sweet than bitter i would say. Makoto passed away peacefuly with a samile and without much of a dramatic impact.

For me the most emotional scene was in the begining of the ep where Makoto tries to say her and Yuuichi's name - after that scene i was expecting it to get worse emotion-wise, but it ended rather peacefuly. Tho i have to say i am disapointed how they handled the end of Makoto - poof and shes gone. (Tho this disapointment might come from the fact that i was expecting something like Air emotion wise.... tho this version actually might be better suited for Kanon, because theme here indeed seems more about miracles (unlike Air).

All this time i was bitching about Makoto arc not producing strong enough emotions, but after this ep it makes me think that it was never intended to do so. Rated this with 9.

I am suffering from lack of Shiori and Nayuki...tho it seems i might get to see some more of Nayuki in the next ep. I hope that Kanon will bind the arcs together somewhat - one thing i didn't like about the Makoto arc was the fact that all the other girls seemed to have vanished. I hope this will not be true for the rest of the arcs.

On a side note - what was meant with the scene of Makoto lying on the ground when Piro walks up to her? I doubt that such a seemingly important scene would be added for the heck of it. Makoto vanished, and now we see her again(tho it's not clear wether she is dead or not)... and since Piro was there i assume it was not a dream-scene or something like that. Could this have something to do with the miracle Amano asked Yuuichi about in the end? Hm...


i think that scene at the end was written in to satisfy a broader fanbase..the idealists...the pragmatists...and the realists

this wouldn't be the first time a japanese "story" was ended ambiguously so that the viewer is the one who gets to decide (plausibly) whether things ultimately end positively (makoto's back in the spring...the possible miracle that was alluded to a few times)..negatively (she's gone for good)..or somewhere in between (she left this world happily and peacefully...they were able to satisfy their love, albeit on a level of innocence and purity...and the experience helped yuichi to grow as a human being)...with enough supporting evidence provided by the writer to make any of those "wishes" possible and believable.. "Red Shift" anybody?

[guuchan]

Since alot of people questioned about the final scene, I went to run through Makoto's route again real fast. Fyi, the game just threw in the CG at the end without any explanation, so whatever that scene means is up to your own interpretation. For anyone who's interested to see how that CG looks like, click me (http://guuchan2003.hp.infoseek.co.jp/makoto_end.jpg).

Personally, I agree with Mentar. Either 1)that scene represents U1's wish; 2)Makoto's own wish, since she said before that she wished spring would come and it would last forever (refer to my post in this thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=39956) for original quote); or 3)it really did turn out to be a miracle, maybe a bit later, maybe a much longer time after.

[evil-samurai]

Cant really comment.. on a episode like this other then saying..

I know that before it started people were going on about it being a 'sad girls in the snow' anime. But I had no Idea (when I first started watching) that my favourite character would just get wipped out of the show like that...

I'm usually optimistic// and after seeing the ending shot of her and how miracle can happen in the show :D I still think that Makoto can appear in the show agian! Yay! :D and.. So I really hope Makato comes back.

I think its a shame that the last time we saw the 'talkative' Makato was the first half of last episode. I really missed the Makato that plays pranks :heh: Well it was Entertaining to watch while it lasted =) I dont think there was a father-daughter thing like some.. As least thats not the way I saw it. Then I also guess it depends the way you see things,.. Just that once Makato was more or less Brain-dead I cant see another way that Yuuichi could handel the situation other then caring for her like he did. (Though the way I say that can seem that Yuuichi is just doing what he 'had' to but that wasn't the case) Though I do wonder if Yuuichi will get with a girl with-in these 24 episodes... Most signs points to Ayu.. I guess. or.. mabye Makato might come back ^^ Still... I hope she does :D

[Wandering_Youth]

Hmm, this Kannon 2006 episode wasn't as saddening as the as the same one back in 2002, but it was done just o so beautifully.


Makoto ain't dead! Her spirit lingers around the hill as you will see later on in the anime.

*plays sad ominous music* Now on to the next tragic heroine!

[ReinhartX]

this episode left me in tears and it was too good to be described :upset:

[KenOhki'sRage]

I struggle very hard not to cry as I said before. Already watched the episode a few times and it gets harder each time. I knew her ending would be exactly like in the game since it allows him to choose another girl.

I'm kinda glad that they don't suggest her spirit becomes a new fox like in the 2k2 version. That way we can imagine her spirit enters heaven to wait for Yuuichi. Kinda like the Little Mermaid where she wants to marry the prince to share his immortal soul only Makoto succeeded in the marrying part.

I think the end scene of her lying in the grass with the sukura is Yuuichi's imagination of the miracle he'd wish for not a literal view of the future. My opinion is that yes, Makoto is dead.

edit: Forgot to add this, but OH GOD Nayuki's beautiful. Watching her run up the stairs in her school uniform made me so happy.

[orion]

And here I was expecting to cry my eyes out. Boy am I depressed! (I thought this was suppose to be based on a crying game.)

Toei's version was definitely more emotional. Kyo-Ani's focus on the miracles took the "omph" out of it imo.
Her going away was definitely less emotional than Toei's version. Unfortunately, by that time in the episode, it was alittle too late be of any impact. I wasn't affected in the usual manner by the "wedding" scene either.

So, for me it wasn't sad just slightly bittersweet.

Oh well, there are more plots to go. Ayu's back. :) Shiori isn't. :(

[panzerfan]

Just watching KyoAni Kanon episode 10 does feel less intense an experience comparing to the Toei Kanon episode 10. However, when I watch KyoAni 8-10 in succession, I was pulverized. Toei 8-10 all at once actually suffocated me instead, with the sheer pace of it all.

Admittedly, the 'chin anime' in visual can't really compare to the KyoAni implementation in animation department and faithfulness toward the original plot of the story, although a Toei include a major detail regarding Makoto and her wound. However, KyoAni's character portrayal of Yuiichi is that much stronger, and stands like a tower of strength almost. Amano also is far more accurate to the original plot and three-dimensional as a support character. Toei though leads itself up very steeply and feels almost like a summary to Makoto's arc.

Looking at it, I think what I perfer the more gentle approach that doesn't pound at your emotions. I perfer the subtlity in the storytelling. I do find watching Makoto's story in KyoAni version altogether to help though since the buildup feels more intense to the mind that way.

[lalala]

wow i liked this episode although i thought it would be a lot more emotional..guess not
but i did like it, makoto trying to say words and when she said yuuichis name, cute
the wedding was predictable but i still like it. one of the shots did look messed up tho cuz yuuichis missing...
the end shot where makoto is lying there, it reminded me of some korean movies i watched where everybody dies, but at the end u see them all happy in "heaven" or where they are most happy with the ppl they love. iono but it was nice i like it

[andiyar]

Well, episode 10 resolved Makoto as expected, with KyoAni's approach to game material. I loved the expansions given to Mishio's character, she has become a very fun person to watch on screen because of them - I hope that she comes back a couple more times in the show (hinted at with her declaring to Yuuichi that they're friends), as it'd be wasteful otherwise.

Best single moment of this episode was the shot where Mishio pulls away as she walks into class, and says "sayonara." The moment just there was beautiful - much as it was when Nayuki ran up the stairs moments afterwards, and as it was when Akiko wiped her tears.

Another very well done (albeit predictable and almost clich&#233;) was the bells striking the ground, which was of course to be anticipated... that said, it was done extremely well, as was Yuuichi's reaction. I was incredibly impressed that there was no need for a histrionic scream to the heavens, rather just a mumbled word - and the emotion in his voice was perfect, as it was in his narration throughout the episode.

The finale sequence with Mishio was very well done as well, and was a delight to watch. The dream/wish scene of Makoto lying on the grass with Piro curled on her arm was also a beautiful shot - I wish that a poster of that particular shot would be released, really, it'd look wonderful on my wall. ^^

Oh yes, @ Deathkillz and @ Wandering_Youth:

Yes, Makoto is dead, no, that scene does not imply she comes back, and no, I'm guessing she won't come back at the end of the show at all - you're referring to Kazahana, yes, Wandering Youth? I believe the Makoto scenes within Kazahana were a Toei fabrication, so sadly, no reborn Makoto to meet Mishio at Monomi hill.

As to the next episode, the shots of Ayu cooking, and some of the close ups on Nayuki's face? Anticipation levels are rising, my friends. It seems to be shaping up to be a solid character developing episode, from the preview and the title, which as has been pointed out is an Italian musical expression referring to a sequence/movement between movements (lit. 'interval). So I'm not anticipating a plot-moves-fast episode, but rather a catchup, develop and breathe episode for the characters.

Should be fun. ^^


-Andiyar

[DanielSong39]

Well, at least this episode gave me a reason to continue watching...

This show is supposed to be a comedy, right?

[godakame]

This show is supposed to be a comedy, right?

If you have no soul and enjoy the act of sodomizing cows, then yes it is a comedy. I can feel that bigger laughs are on the way!

Err, like everyone else I was expecting a tear-jerker episode, but only reached the point of almost crying but didn't. I'm not going to blame KyoAni for not envoking enough emtions throughout the episode because they did a hell of a job. But Rather I blame myself for watching Kanon on a weekly basis; I think that if I watch it in chunks, I'll get the desire effect of sobbing.

[Forever]

Well tears only went up when I saw makoto once again at the last scene sleeping with the cat. Since I knew she was going to die already, but i didnt knew there was a chance for her to be back (miracle).

If makoto could really come back again, I will be happy with tears in eyes again.

[grey_moon]

Its spring and Piro is there but one thing is missing and is that is Yuichi with her...

[Skyfall]

This show is supposed to be a comedy, right?

If you completely manage to miss what the show and the characters are trying to acomplish, as well as have a heart of stone and are twice as cynical as me(which is saying a lot)...then yes, in this case, with the help of some halucinations, this might seem as a comedy :heh: j/k...

Seriously, just because there are some funny moments here and there does not make it in to a comedy. Air has them as well. When some one asks for a comedy do you recomend Air? Heck, Higurashi had it's comic moments.

[Pakxenon]

Well, at least this episode gave me a reason to continue watching...

This show is supposed to be a comedy, right?
Yes, it's a comedy. I laughed about 3 times max in this episode plus at least 5 cynical point-outs, even in the serious moments. It heightens my experience (though not intended) of watching Kanon. ^^

Though if you're watching this show just because the masses of fanboys are watching it, I don't see why you even need to click on that torrent link anyways. Even I, trying to point out every cheesy moment and felt like sleeping during this episode, can apprieciate for what the episode is [trying to do] and enjoy the story [while learning new things like Japanese mythology].

I'm curious to what reason it is making you to continue watching the show. For the laughs? You could always rerun the first 5 episodes and torture yourself.

[Deathkillz]

I'm curious to what reason it is making you to continue watching the show. For the laughs? You could always rerun the first 5 episodes and torture yourself.
heck its just a personal opinion ~ maybe DanielSong39 enjoys laughing at the suffering and pain for some unknown reason :X

[Vexx]

I've been suspecting mild trolling for quite a while... but yes, Kanon is a comedy.. and a drama ... and a romance ... and a mystery ... and a tragedy. Slices for everyone.

[New/Old]

Hmm-hmm. Yep. It's got slices for everyone. ^^

With this, my favorite arc (though I love every other story as well) concludes. And I do say I was satisfied with what Kyoani did with it. Hmm-hmm. A good one for me.

And now the Intermezzo. Hmm-hmm. ^^

[Kinny Riddle]

I wasn't satisfied that Kyo-Ani shortened the scene between Mishio and Makoto, where Mishio slowly soothes Makoto into uttering her name. In the game that part was longer:


Mishio: What's your name?
Makoto: ......
Mishio: You have a name, right?
Makoto: ......
Mishio: Now come on. What's your name?
Makoto: ......Ma......
Mishio: "Ma"? So is your name just "Ma"? There's some more, right?
Makoto: ......Ko......
Mishio: "Mako"? Is your name "Mako"?
Makoto: ......To......"
Mishio: Makoto, is it?
Makoto: Ma...ko...to......
Mishio: Good girl... (caresses Makoto's head)
Makoto: Au~~ Makoto......


Brings a smile to one's face everytime I watch that scene.

But I'll let that gripe pass as Kyo-Ani this time included having Makoto try to utter out Yuuichi's name as well, which I thought was just as good.

The departure of Makoto was done really well, I did not expect Makoto to disappear so suddenly like that. I would have thought she would have faded out slowly after she dropped her hand to the ground. (There's even a game CG of her hand lying on the grass. )

I did not watch the Toei version, so when finally coming to the end of the Makoto story in the game, I was left wondering how Yuuichi disposed of Makoto's body. lol Kyo-Ani has at least answered that for me.

Before meeting Makoto, Mishio has been living in solitude caused by the pain of losing a dear friend (aka fox). Since meeting Makoto and seeing how strong Yuuichi was even after all these happened, Mishio began to open up and became cheerful again, becoming friends with Yuuichi.

In a way, you could say that by choosing the Makoto pathway in the game, you'll end up with Mishio as "your girl".

Next episode will see how Kyo-Ani manage to transit from Makoto's departure and into the next girl's storyline, and how they would accomodate Mishio into the remaining stories.

[Merridew]

My first viewing of this episode was really mixed because I was expecting to have the same emotional result as the Toei version had on me. My heart felt like it was trying to swell (the closest I get to crying), while being suppressed at the same time. But I liked how they went for the plot, maybe as a change to the vanishing that occurred in the Toei version, though I can't say that either was better than the other.

I thought the last scene was referring to Amano's words about how the hill will be filled with "them" again and how they are continually reborn into the world. But what was a little confusing was that Makoto appeared as a person but not as a baby fox. But at least it's telling me that there's hope that she's not permanently gone but her life spirit is still on the hill, much like how Kazehana portrayed her.

My favourite thing with this episode was how Amano's character seemed so much fuller compared to the one in the Toei version. When Yuuichi first met her, she was so cold and closed in, but during and at the end of this episode, she really opened up, and became a really likeable character (so much that I think she and Yuuichi looked like a match in that last scene they had).

I also liked how Nayuki became more supportive of Makoto and her situation. Before she couldn't do anything, but she really tried to make Makoto belong in this episode.

I hope I didn't reveal so much that would ruin the experience for other viewers. I'm still new here, so I don't know where spoiler tags are appropriate.

[Kinny Riddle]

Come to think of it, does the Shoujo Manga Yuuichi read to Makoto really exists?

(Image courtesy of Omni's blog)
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Kanon/Kanon%20-%2010%20-%20Large%2012.jpg

冬のおわりのイデュー
Fuyu no Owari no Ideal

[Lilith]

Ep 10
Before anything... kudos to Yuuichi and Makoto's voice actors.

Yuuichi Yuuichi Yuuichi *fangirls* :o Lucky Makoto~ He's such a tender and kind guy! He took care of Makoto to the last minute, trying his best to fulfill all her wishes.

Throughout the episode my heart was aching. The last scene of the wedding then her disappearing made my eyes teary. However, when I saw Makoto's image with Piro next to her made me smile widely (to the point of listening to the ending song!). As everyone said, this is a show of miracles, so I still have hope to see Makoto again. :D

Next episode: Uguu~~~ *happy*

[Sorrow-K]

I wasn't satisfied that Kyo-Ani shortened the scene between Mishio and Makoto, where Mishio slowly soothes Makoto into uttering her name. In the game that part was longer:


Mishio: What's your name?
Makoto: ......
Mishio: You have a name, right?
Makoto: ......
Mishio: Now come on. What's your name?
Makoto: ......Ma......
Mishio: "Ma"? So is your name just "Ma"? There's some more, right?
Makoto: ......Ko......
Mishio: "Mako"? Is your name "Mako"?
Makoto: ......To......"
Mishio: Makoto, is it?
Makoto: Ma...ko...to......
Mishio: Good girl... (caresses Makoto's head)
Makoto: Au~~ Makoto......

Brings a smile to one's face everytime I watch that scene.

But I'll let that gripe pass as Kyo-Ani this time included having Makoto try to utter out Yuuichi's name as well, which I thought was just as good.

The departure of Makoto was done really well, I did not expect Makoto to disappear so suddenly like that. I would have thought she would have faded out slowly after she dropped her hand to the ground. (There's even a game CG of her hand lying on the grass. )

I did not watch the Toei version, so when finally coming to the end of the Makoto story in the game, I was left wondering how Yuuichi disposed of Makoto's body. lol Kyo-Ani has at least answered that for me.

Before meeting Makoto, Mishio has been living in solitude caused by the pain of losing a dear friend (aka fox). Since meeting Makoto and seeing how strong Yuuichi was even after all these happened, Mishio began to open up and became cheerful again, becoming friends with Yuuichi.

In a way, you could say that by choosing the Makoto pathway in the game, you'll end up with Mishio as "your girl".

Next episode will see how Kyo-Ani manage to transit from Makoto's departure and into the next girl's storyline, and how they would accomodate Mishio into the remaining stories.Well, the alternative is no interaction between Makoto and Amano at all, which is exactly what happened in the 2002 anime (ignoring that scene in the extra ep that made absolutely no sense). But you bring up a good point, in that, in the 2006 version, Amano is an actual character, more than just a plot device, that actually develops due to the events in this arc. If there was one thing in particular in this arc that I think KyoAni has massively improved upon over the 2002 version, it's this: the role Amano fills this time round.

[Yuelon]

This was the most superb episode ever so far made, everything seem so realistic and the disappearance of Makoto wasn't too obvious like the Toei did. Just it wasn't that sadden than before, but overall it was great that they added the cherry blosson petal fall, that was the main theme of Makoto i recken.
So looking forward on other development Cheers!!

Who next i wonder?

[holybell84]

My heart broke for this episode..... so sad......

[DarrenW]

What a great episode!
The suddenness of it really caught me off guard.

And it was great to see Mishio's character change by the end of this arc. Wonder if her hints about all of the foxes on the hill creating an "amazing miracle" is a foreshadowing of things to come?

But, it's been a bit too long since they last showed us most of the other girls. At least they showed us a glimpse of each of them towards the end of the episode. Just in case we'd forgotten about them, I guess.

[martino]

Oh dear. So the first arc has ended... It was a bit emotional for me, however it didn't affect me as much as when I saw it the first time in Toei's version. Well, I suppose that this is the price with have to pay for knowing too much. I think that it was done nicely, but somehow I would have liked the episode to have ended at Monomi Hill, and then continue with Amano in the next episode. However it was quite interesting to see Amano in her true light...

So Mai's next then; looking forward to it...

[Meophist]

For some reason, I found this to be more impactful than Toei's version.

[npal]

I agree, although it could be the fact that I watched 3 episodes in succession.

[martino]

I'm sure that it would have been more impactful if I wouldn't have seen the Toei version, since I knew what was going to happen...

[orion]

I agree, although it could be the fact that I watched 3 episodes in succession.

That could be it. Watching it in 1 sitting could give you a concentrated dose and amplify your emotions. If you're attached to Makoto, it's prob a more emotional experience.

If you're not attached to Makoto or any of the characters yet, you could possibly be in the same boat as DanielSong39 imo. Wondering what the heck all the emoting is about?

Not enough omph for me, but there was some Yuichi and Mishio development as a consolation prize.

Personally, I want to see Yuichi fall from a massive height into hell. So, if Yuichi shows me some despair, depression and breaks down and actually cries for another character, then I'll give that episode a 10.

[Chibi_Faerie]

I know I haven't posted in this forum yet, but after this episode I had to *teary eyed* I really like how this series is being done, I watched the first series and now this one.. I have to say I like there being so much more to this one than the last one... Though I thought I'd be past the crying bit since I've seen what happens in this episode before. But I think it hit me harder the second time around. I always wondered if there was ever a chance for Makoto and Yuichi, I have an obsession for foxes and myths. So Makoto and Yuichi together were an automatic favorite to me. Maybe that's why I am so sad right now... I'm a little afraid to continue because there was another part to the series that got to me even worse than this and I don't doubt now that it's coming too eventually... But I really liked how they did this part of the series compaired to last time, as sad as it was. I thought the manga scene was so cute, this series has yet to fail at tugging at my heart strings that's for sure.

[Meophist]

Yuuichi did cry. There just wasn't a long drawn out sequence about it.

Regardless, I didn't watch the last three episodes all at once. Although I think I did watch all of the Toei's episodes one after another. Kyoto Animation's version still had more impact IMO.

[Sorrow-K]

I'm sure that it would have been more impactful if I wouldn't have seen the Toei version, since I knew what was going to happen...Having seen the Toei version, I knew what was going to happen, but I didn't completely know how it was going to happen. There were some scenes in particular that really surprised me, particularly the scene where Amano asked for Makoto's name.

[Cal-Reflector]

Was anyone getting good vibes between Kyonichi and Amano towards the end? It was almost like the beginning of a relationship: Two people awaken from the same dream, making light talk between themselves and commenting on each others unexpectedness lack of romance and surprising amount of girly imagination...

Heard back even in the days of the game, some other fans have thought of the same thing.

I support... Kyonichi and Amano!

[Shiroth]

Heard back even in the days of the game, some other fans have thought of the same thing.

I support... Kyonichi and Amano!
Its nice to think of them as friend i think, nothing more - just that helps you to understand there feelings in this whole matter.

[Asianknight82]

Was anyone getting good vibes between Kyonichi and Amano towards the end? It was almost like the beginning of a relationship: Two people awaken from the same dream, making light talk between themselves and commenting on each others unexpectedness lack of romance and surprising amount of girly imagination...

Heard back even in the days of the game, some other fans have thought of the same thing.

I support... Kyonichi and Amano!

Well, whatever vibe you may be feeling won't come to fruition since its quite obvious that Ayu is the main girl of the series, I won't even get into it since its so blatantly obvious that she is.

But yeah, This episode was great. Loved every minute of it. although, I'm a bit confused by the very last scene though, I just figure its best to just let it go and move on xD

[Meophist]

As for the last scene…
I just think Makoto died and got reborn.

[iczelion74]

As for the last scene…
I just think Makoto died and got reborn.

I personally feel its more a visualization of the "what if" miracle that Yuiichi and Amano were speaking about. It didnt really occur, but its a nice way to end her arc with warm fuzzies. Its been a few years but it seems like her death in the Toei version was sadder to me.

[Owaranai Destiny]

The end of the Makoto arc, and what a interesting way to end it. It felt as though I was reading the end and epilogue chapter of a novel of a story by itself.

Of course, the tear-jerking parts almost caught me tearing again. You could sense the mild but mounting desperation of Yuuichi as he tried to keep Makoto in her human form, to keep her with him and them (Akiko and Nayuki) forever as a family, going as far as to skip school, enlist Mishio's aid and suggesting a family outing altogether. I really respect and sympathise with him in this aspect. Here he's trying to put on a damned brave front, and any lesser man would probably have openly weeped when Makoto actually finally 'disappeared' from him.

I have to commend Key and KyoAni on this. The accompaniment of the music along with the mood of whatever that's going on was excellent, and we couldn't have asked for a better seiyuu than Tomokazu Sugita for Yuuichi. They really moulded the mood well too, showing heartwarming scenes of Makoto enjoyinh herself with the Minase family and Mishio, even as we knew that Makoto is eventually and inevitably going to disappear. The first perfect 10 I gave to a Kanon 2006 episode. Keep the goods coming.

And of course, episode 11 preview....Looks like the Mai arc is going to start. I really can't wait. :D

EDIT: Voted, and I was pretty surprised someone voted a 2. Oh well...There will ALWAYS be skeptics no matter how good the show is or seems. :heh:

[orion]

Has his scoring been decreasing or staying the same for the series? We are almost at the half mark here. It's sad if it's not getting any better. Life's too short to waste it on a title that you don't like.

Edit: Since I'm waiting for Microsoft to open because of IE 7 issues, here is a graph of his scores.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5076/kscorepo2.th.jpg (http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kscorepo2.jpg)

Maybe he prefers the lighter aspects of the series?

Yuuichi did cry. There just wasn't a long drawn out sequence about it.

Regardless, I didn't watch the last three episodes all at once. Although I think I did watch all of the Toei's episodes one after another. Kyoto Animation's version still had more impact IMO.


Ah, but he hasn't suffered enough yet or in proportion to what Makoto went thru. Yuichi clenching his teeth after she disappears and looking skyward without actually seeing the stream doesn't count imo.

A few seconds of Ayu and Shiori was at the end of this episode to calm those in withdrawal.

[Deathkillz]

Well, whatever vibe you may be feeling won't come to fruition since its quite obvious that Ayu is the main girl of the series, I won't even get into it since its so blatantly obvious that she is.

But yeah, This episode was great. Loved every minute of it. although, I'm a bit confused by the very last scene though, I just figure its best to just let it go and move on xD
not until yuuichi has moved on pass the other girls first ~ then ayu will get her chance :p yuuichi <<<< smooth playa!

[Rengemaru]

Now, we can say that Kanon's true potential is materializing. As the fox princess elegantly emerged on the stage, and boy I haven't shed such tears since the days of AIR.

This episode was truely the most impressive of the remake and will be considered the finest chapter by the fox princess's fans (yes I'm one of them). And compared to the old 2k3 version by TOEI, this version had more screen time for Makoto (or rather say, more screen domination) with an addition of a gorgeous art work, excellent music and excellent voice acting. All together made this chapter shine brightly over the old 2k3 version, good work KyoAni.

Going into little details, the behavior of Makoto was heart rending and it was shoving more and more emotions into our hearts as the story was getting closer and closer to it's end. And the wedding scene can only be described by a single word "Beautiful" (I was awaiting this scene like a freak from the first trailer). Followed by the heart warming hugging scene is another excellent addition. And although the moment of her death was rather cold, but the musical silence alongside Yuuichi's sorrow made a good prelude to the following scene. And for the memories scenes (the one before and after her death) were flawless. Another good thing was having Amano's story being clarifyed, although it isn't crystal clear but we finally got a better understanding of her personality.

A beautiful chapter that become more beautiful and the pretty side of a mystifying girl emerged, what else I can ask for?

[Ascaloth]

Oh bloody hell. I just hate it when I'm in Vietnam at the EXACT time something I look forward to comes...

Well, at least this episode gave me a reason to continue watching...

This show is supposed to be a comedy, right?

And I really wish this guy would just stop watching and stop poisoning the Kanon forum with his extremist version of cynicism. There's a line to be crossed between constructive criticism and outright trolling, and DanielSong39's passed that line long ago.

[Mentar]

Do the same thing I do. Use the board's "Ignore" feature.

Call up his private data, and you'll find a link in the top right "Add DanielSong39 to your Ignore List". Then you'll be free from his trolling, unless someone quotes his drivel (which you did, by the way).

==> One worry less in your life.

[Lost]

Sigh. I've been putting this off for too long. I've hardened my heart as much as I can; Onwards! to Kanon 10.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

God it was pityful and heartwrenching watching Yuuichi trying to prolong that moment, any moment that would contribute to Makoto's existance; just that little longer, just that next ring of the bell. It literally came down to rings of a bell; which I suppose could be likened to beats of heart. Haiz. "Ma... ko... to..." and "Yuu... i... chi!" dug especially deep.

From Amano's epilogue, actually I think I see it now. All the girls are, or represent, fragments of Yuuichi's sad past; and in discovering them and their stories, he discovers himself.

[New/Old]

Heh heh. A lot of questions about that last Makoto shot. But I believe Key put it in for one reason. To leave it up to the players to decide and think on it. Personally, it's a brilliant move when thought about.

Yes. I wanted to be as vague as possible to avoid spoilers. Heh heh. :heh:

[orion]

Do the same thing I do. Use the board's "Ignore" feature.

Call up his private data, and you'll find a link in the top right "Add DanielSong39 to your Ignore List". Then you'll be free from his trolling, unless someone quotes his drivel (which you did, by the way).

==> One worry less in your life.

So, you don't think that based on his voting...

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5076/kscorepo2.th.jpg (http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kscorepo2.jpg)

that he likes the more lighter elements and hates the emo stuff? Trolling and not genuine expression of misguided thoughts that this would be more comedic than tragic? ( I always give everyone the benefit of the doubt that's why I'm asking and I'm bad at spotting trolling.)

Besides, it's sad to be ignored. :sad:

[Mentar]

orion: It's not the voting which made me click on the "Ignore" link, it was the intentionally inflammatory baiting in his prior remarks to the episodes. Just look at his comment for this episode. To write this after the last 3 episodes proves that he's either exceptionally dense or purposely trying to stir the sh*tpot. Rating this very excellent episode with "2" is just the icing on the cake.

"Contributions" like these are worthless. At least to me. Instead, they annoy me and thus reduce my enjoyment exchanging thoughts with other fans.

Therefore, Ignore List. And trust me, it's a feature I use sparsely. Right now, only one other active guy is on my list. You really need to try both hard and repeatedly to get there.

[martino]

Was anyone getting good vibes between Kyonichi and Amano towards the end? It was almost like the beginning of a relationship: Two people awaken from the same dream, making light talk between themselves and commenting on each others unexpectedness lack of romance and surprising amount of girly imagination...

Heard back even in the days of the game, some other fans have thought of the same thing.

I support... Kyonichi and Amano!
I did...however I don't think that they will start an "Amano" arc...

[orion]

Mentar: Oh. I'm a softie at heart for these type of things. Can't spot trollers, read all posts and don't get annoyed. This wouldn't even rate on a scale compared to what happens at work.

I didn't think it was the voting, but the comments like you said. I was just thinking that if he came into the series thinking comedy with few tragic moments (1st 2 ep. rated a "6", ep. 3 rated a "7") despite what's written in the forum and got tragic moments with few to no comedy (ep. 9 rated a "3" and ep. 10 rated a "2"), then that could explain the posts. As you put it, he could be incredibly dense.

But, I can see your point too. :)

[Baka-neko]

Giving 4.
Was pretty painful to watch (thought about giving 1, but the end of this episode made this a bit better).
Was painful mainly because a) I hate Makoto and b) Boring.
The only good thing in this episode is that we won't have Makoto episodes anymore.
Ahh.. this show would be so better with out Makoto arc ;)

We people have different tastes and I didn't like this.

[KenOhki'sRage]

You realize she died in episode 10 last time too? Just a thought.

I think Yuuichi gets some serious caring points in this episode in Nayuki's mind. She's forced to the sidelines during this arc and he's not been very nice to her from the beginning but watching him care for Makoto till the very end makes him look pretty good in her mind don't you think?

[Cloud Strife]

Episode 10 = 10/10 = PAINFUL

I believe the ending of this episode was implied to be the miracle that Yuuichi would wish for which would grant Makoto's wish consequently. She wished for Spring to come and last forever, and Yuuichi, who wouldn't think twice about it, would want to grant this wish for her.

[slayer]

Oh man... where do I begin? It was sad and I was crying well not fully but it was starting really bad.... god I can't take another one like that agian.. 10/10 for pain factor 1/10 for the enjoyment...

[toxic_trance]

Well i dont know whether i should curse or thank that i didnt have net for the last 2 weeks cause I watched episode 9 and 10 together and man was it painful. Makoto's disappearance was simply too much even though it was something i knew having watched the 2002 version.

I think this part was better than Toei as in that Toei wasnt really able to make us fall in love with Makoto's character as much as KyoAni. Toei just made a very emotional exit for Makoto. Compared to that KyoAni, although they made her vanish suddenly, the moment I realised that Makoto isnt there just instantly gave me goosebumps. Her sudden disappearance was simply too painful to watch.

I m also impressed with how they handled Amano. We hardly get to see her in the 2002 version. The last part was great, showing that Amano also has a "girly side with an immense imagination". Strangely, of all scenes where i got teary eyes was the last one, where u see Makoto sleeping on the grass with Piro.

Like Kyuichi, even i hope for that miracle...

[orion]

But places with an eternal Spring usually implies heaven or any other spiritual paradise imo.

[toxic_trance]

My eyes became teary in the last scene because for a second i thought unlike 2002, Makoto is back..I was simplty too happy. But then i realised, it was just the vision of Yuichi's Miracle. But from the bottom of my heart, i wish that the Miracle takes place. I wish we could see her forever and ever..

BTW..what is written above "Minase Family" in the photo taken...I couldnt make out, what it was...

[Deathkillz]

well i guess that vision is just to make us feel better that makoto can "rest in peace" ~ still dam sad tho :sad:

[toxic_trance]

Anyone thinks that, all the Kanon fans writing a letter to KyoAni to revive Makoto would fulfill Yuichi's vision of his Miracle.. :heh:

Neway, next episode is Mai, hmm..i want to see the Student Council President..wonder how that fellow will look here??

[houkoholic]

Anyone thinks that, all the Kanon fans writing a letter to KyoAni to revive Makoto would fulfill Yuichi's vision of his Miracle.. :heh:


No, because Key would not allow it.
Plus Japanese fans of Kanon (or in general) are not uptight about deaths in stories.

[toxic_trance]

Whoa i never really expected a serious answer for this...but well...no harm done. :)

[Lost]

The accompaniment of the music along with the mood of whatever that's going on was excellent,
The effect of the ED music accompanying that last scene with Makoto was excellent, to say the least. It didnt give me a fuzzy all-is-well feeling, because I knew Makoto to be truly dead (at least, her arc completely over) and I believe it was probably just a 'what-if' manifestation of Yuuichi's desired miracle, but everything was just excellent - I dont know, probably that up-beat thing about the scene; as if a final tribute to a lost Makoto, not some hopeful resurrection scene.

Thats why I agree with the poster who said in the Ep 9 thread that all one needs to pay attention when watching this are the emotions, the feelings. The (admittably sparse) plot, the voice-acting, the visuals, all of them serve only one purpose - to drive home the emotions, and drive them home hard at that.

[nani]

To some extend, I find this version more saddening than Toei's version.

From Makoto's point of view, this version is less tear-jerking as her wedding wish is finally fulfilled. However, I cannot stop pitying Yuuichi. He knows what will happen eventually but there is nothing he can do to change the outcome, yet he still manages to look calm and controlled while concentrating on the sole task to make Makoto happy.

As mentioned above, the music definitely helps to set the emotions for the maximum impact. KyoAni has made an excellent decision to use the original music......unlike another anime which discarded the excellent original music (I am looking at you, Higurashi......:heh: ).

[Vexx]

Yuiichi's commitment to see her be happy is the kind of thing you wish for in "terminal" relationships (and really *all* relationships are terminal whether one dies earlier or later). Makoto's story is "smaller" in some ways than the others but KyoAni did an excellent job for the most part in telling it. It also sets the stage for the surreal nature of the rest of the series (kind of a "do we have your attention now? Good.").

[kingdom_elladrel]

I think this was an excellent episode. Really enjoyed the wedding scene at Monomi Hill. In the 2002 version, I wasn't really into Makoto's character at all, but after seeing these last few episodes, especially this episode, that has totally changed. Of course, Ayu and Shiori are still my number 1 and number 2, hehe. Yuuichi was on the verge of tears there for a moment right before she disappeared. I definitely feel for the guy. Also it's great to see that Amano's role isn't like some almost-unimportant background role like it seemed in the 2002 version.

As for the guy who's been taking too much hallucinative drugs and thinking this is a comedy anime............gotta stop taking those drugs, they might kill you someday. Oh and stay away from Akiko's Jam. It might make it worse.

[Zaris]

This episode lacked the emotional umph I was looking for, but that's only because I'm well emersed in the world of cinema and television. I'm happy that Yuuichi recognized how much trouble Makoto was, and his thoughts on the hill that we listened to described that, even though she was child-like with no regards to human society, it could not have been helped. Characters like Makoto never had a chance to learn the rules and functions. As a result, her nature and being isn't much different to that of an alien or a foreigner clueless and lost in the middle of a strange culture. If Yuuichi had reacted more to her sudden disappearance, I would've felt more in my heart. It just didn't last long enough to really touch me, but again, that is me. The time it takes to move someone to tears varies between individuals.

I will admit that thanks to Yuuichi's thought monologue, I reappreciated Makoto again slightly. She was doomed from the start. But was she happy? We'll never know. My only regret is that Makoto never had the chance to redeem herself for all the trouble she caused.

That last scene was a little ambiguous. Is she asleep or dead (she certainly wasn't breathing)!? Is that really her or just a visual metaphor of Yuuichi's last words in episode 10? We'll never know for certain. We might. Maybe. The series isn't even half done.

[Meophist]

Thats why I agree with the poster who said in the Ep 9 thread that all one needs to pay attention when watching this are the emotions, the feelings. The (admittably sparse) plot, the voice-acting, the visuals, all of them serve only one purpose - to drive home the emotions, and drive them home hard at that.Wasn't too sure if anybody was going to take that seriously. I'm not very sure if it's really true or not; I somewhat have difficulty understanding certain emotions, so I usually have to watch the episodes multiple times before I "get" it. When I do, though, it's quite rewarding.

In any case, when Amano-san was talking about being "friends", I think she was talking about being friends with Makoto, not Aizawa. Aizawa-san asked her before to be friends with Makoto, so I think she was refering to that.

[DarrenW]

BTW..what is written above "Minase Family" in the photo taken...I couldnt make out, what it was...

I think "Minase Family" is the fansubber's translation of what's written above it. Kudos to whichever translator was able to make it out.

[guuchan]

BTW..what is written above "Minase Family" in the photo taken...I couldnt make out, what it was...
"水瀬家一同", which means "Everyone of Minase family". You can say it implies that they're regarding Makoto as a member of the family.

I think "Minase Family" is the fansubber's translation of what's written above it. Kudos to whichever translator was able to make it out.
There's an exact same CG in the game of that photo, maybe that's how s/he figured it out. ;)

[toxic_trance]

Wow...if the translators actually did that..they really deserve a hell lot of credit. I bow to the guys in SS-Eclipse.

[KenOhki'sRage]

I think it's ok to post game CGs to illustrate a point so here's the family pic from the game itself.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d65/Tekrelious/family.jpg

[Richard 23]

Well, I agreed with most of the postings about this episode not being as tear jerking as expected (esp compared to Kanon 2002's rendering)...at first....

But I just did a marathon of the Kanon 2006 episodes so far and it truly ripped me to shreds. I recommend that the doubters relive the pain by watching Kanon 2006 1-10 back to back and dare most especially those of you who were so cheeky as to give the most recent episode the sickening sewer rating of a 2 (I'm looking at you, DanielSong39, punk!).

If the experience doesn't melt your heart, you haven't one. I salute KyoAni and if anyone has the email address for Sugita Tomokazu, I'd really like to have it to thank him for the incredible work he's done here. And on Chobits and Shuffle and Haruhi and Honey & Clover etc. He's really blown me away.

I really enjoyed the original VAs. I really liked Kanon 2002 against all odds, but this remake has really blown me away so far.

Again, if you can watch this episode after watching the others and not be moved what the hell is wrong with you? Tell me what series has moved you more, if indeed you've ever been moved by anything...

KAMPAI!!!

[Richard 23]

For some reason, I found this to be more impactful than Toei's version.

Agreed. Watch all the episodes in a marathon again and it will hit you even harder!

At first I didn't get it, but now that I have...it hurts.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Take it easy. Like I said, there will always be skeptics. I think the mud-flinging ought to stop, even though I can't disagree more with DanielSong39's opinions. He can vote a 1 for all he care. As long as most of us actually enjoy the show instead of wasting our precious time watching a show deemed to be nothing short of "terrible", we can continue with our discussions.

Different people also have different emotional capacities as well. Look at me; I didn't cry when I watched and rewatched Makoto's arc, although there was moisture in my eyes or Zaris.

Well, don't get too uptight on things. Just take it easy and get some things done while waiting for episode 11. ;)

[Ascaloth]

So, I lucked out and found a network access in Vietnam. Allowing me to watch this episode on Youtube finally.

How did I find it? Painful. In the 10/10 sense.

Did I say I wished Ayu would have a slightly bigger part at the end of Makoto's arc? I take that back. KyoAni simply could not have done this any better.

And as everyone has said what I wished to say, I'll stop here. I'm thinking though, with the end of this episode, Kanon's storyline so far already looks somewhat akin to an AIR Lite......and with 4 more girls to go, one can only imagine how much better KyoAni Kanon will turn out to be. :)

And Mentar....I think I'll take your advice regarding a certain someone who has nothing better to do but watch shows he doesn't like. ;)

[orion]

But, you know, hearing the opinions of those that don't like the show can be informative too and could spark some decent discussions imo. Not everyone should be expected to like a show.

[Vexx]

Aye, we should be open to all opinions as long as they are supported in the usual analytical way (examples, comparisons, etc). I'm less amused by "zomg show sux" simply because they remind me of horse dung kicked into the air... pointless and rude. Of course, the opposite isn't much better ("love this show or die!").
To use a random non-Kanon example, in the Negima world - I find I preferred the Sayo backstory of the first season anime over both the original manga and the new season (though they may still backfill a bit). Why? Because instead of just playing her for gags, they told a real ghost story (semi-tragic but with a somewhat happy ending). The best of all worlds would be some merging of the two/three versions but ah well. Now there are people who think quite differently about Sayo but just keep passing the "peace pipe" and it'll all mellow out :)

At some point, saying something "sucks" or "rocks" says a lot more about the speaker than the subject material.

[FatPianoBoy]

Wow, a.f.k. sure took their time this week :heh:
Yeah, I'm one of those guys that holds out for a particular group. I've found the constantly switching groups alienates the characters from me.

And yeah, I cried. I didn't really like Makoto much at first, but around episode seven I really started warming up to her. Now I loves her to bits. She's much deeper than she initially appears. Also, Yuuichi is now made completely of love and win. Buying Makoto a veil and "marrying" her on the top of the hill was probably the sweetest thing I've ever seen, and I'm no sucker for romance.
KyoAni gets a 10 for some darn good directing in this episode. They pulled out maximum sob factor with their scene changes, music, sequence of events, and even the camera angles (bells :upset:). Amano helping her make a "partial recovery" and Makoto coming out of her second fever begins laying little eggs of hope in our hearts, only to rip them right back out again when we see her nodding off in Yuuichi's lap. Wonderfully heart-wrenching.
I think I'm gonna just let that final shot be. I'd rather not get that 'ZOMG She lives!' idea in my head only to have it ripped out from under me again. So, for now I'll just write it off as a metaphor showing that she's always around... or something.

Also, some very ambiguous foreshadowing (or was it?) from Amano with her "maybe half the people in this town are foxes" thing complimented with the clips of several people whose identities are less than clear at this point. Is KyoAni trying to throw us red herrings, or is this story really about to get this surreal? We shall see.

[Skane]

~~ Also, some very ambiguous foreshadowing (or was it?) from Amano with her "maybe half the people in this town are foxes" thing complimented with the clips of several people whose identities are less than clear at this point. Is KyoAni trying to throw us red herrings, or is this story really about to get this surreal? We shall see.
The Ayu one was particularly haunting for me, due to its' angle of view, the colours used, the lack of facial features on the people, etc...

That one shot alone summarises Ayu's pain. :(

Cheers.

[DragoonKain3]

All I can say is hooray! Makoto has kicked the bucket!

Not to say that the episode was done bad; on the contrary, it was Kyo-ani quality at its finest. Its just that Makoto ranks the lowest in my opinion of the Kanon girls, and after an agonizing 3-4 episodes dedicated to her arc, I'm glad she's gone now.

Amano on the otherhand was wonderful, and was the highlight of the episode for me and the main reason why I could stomach Makoto. For me, she's the main character of this arc rather than Makoto, since out of all the characters she gets the most development. It's nice how she mirrors Yuuichi in which both are a cold and frosty at first and starts to warm-up later.

Now the biggest question still remains; how the heck did Mai know all about Makoto? Hopefully it gets revealed in her arc.



Still preferred 2k2 version because I actually did cry for the poor girl then (who even then still ranked the lowest in my opinion of the girls, so that's saying something), but that might be just be because it was my first Kanon viewing. That, and me having already seen great J-drama tearjerkers about terminally ill couples like 'Sekai no Chuushin de, Ai wo Sakebu' and 'Koibumi' really took out the oomph of the wedding scene from me, since to me it's a 'been there, seen that' affair already that appears in virtually every one of them. :/

[Skane]

You're not alone in being relieved that Makoto went to Kitsune-Heaven. :heh:

"OMG! You sick bastard!"

Now hang on, let me explain the reason why. :heh: With the demise of Makoto, it gives me hope that KyoAni will not hold back on the tragedy in the other arcs. I was fearful that they would succumb to a fairytale ending where everybody lived happily ever after.

That said, before anybody misunderstands me, that doesn't mean everybody is going to die in Kanon( or could they? Da-dum da-dum! ;) ). :heh: It just means that not everybody is going to end up being all smiles and cheers in the end.

Narf.

[toxic_trance]

A bit out of the topic from above Topics...but I m looking forward to the next episode where Akiko's Jam will face stiff competition from Ayu's cooking. From the promos, it looks like Ayu will be doing some cooking....this wil be fun :D

[Vexx]

In the end, Yuuichi is surrounded by a street full of dead girls and lost dreams, he chugs the Jam and dies....

well, not really but the comedy is there to get you attached to the characters so when you learn the various truths or bad things happened .... tis a good evil.

[VRMN]

A bit out of the topic from above Topics...but I m looking forward to the next episode where Akiko's Jam will face stiff competition from Ayu's cooking. From the promos, it looks like Ayu will be doing some cooking....this wil be fun :D

Honestly, I'm really looking forward to Kyuuichi's reaction to it. But, really, what I want to see is if they just drop Makoto, or if Yuuichi talks about the last situation to Ayu, et al.

The Ayu quote in the preview, "I have no idea what you're talking about," gives me hope that KyoAni has found a suitable way to tie the concluded arc to the new one.

[toxic_trance]

True...true..It shouldnt be like that everytime they start a new arc, the characters of the previous arcs are completely forgotten. There should be references to them in the future. Which is why I was happy that the Mai and Makoto arc was combined a bit. I m hopin that Yuichi speaks to Ayu about it too like mentioned by VRMN

[orion]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to Yuichi explaining it to Ayu and seeing Ayu's reactions and a "Where the hell were you when this was happening?" from Yuichi. Ayu needs to be made accountable for her absence. ;)

[Skyfall]

I don't know about talking with Ayu...i think if he wants to talk about it, it is better to do so with some one who was involved in all that... like Nayuki perhaps. Heck, even Akiko would be a better choice. And Ayu certainly does not seem smart enough to offer any form of advice.


Now hang on, let me explain the reason why. With the demise of Makoto, it gives me hope that KyoAni will not hold back on the tragedy in the other arcs. I was fearful that they would succumb to a fairytale ending where everybody lived happily ever after.


They are allready holding back on the tragedy. Makoto arc was not what i would call a tragedy. Her death alone does not a tragedy make. As i said earlier, at least for me, it was bittersweet, which was more sweet than bitter. As far as tragic goes it does not come close to Air, at least in my book. *stares at avatar and sig... *sob*, poor Misuzu...*

[Skane]

~~ They are allready holding back on the tragedy. Makoto arc was not what i would call a tragedy. Her death alone does not a tragedy make. As i said earlier, at least for me, it was bittersweet, which was more sweet than bitter. As far as tragic goes it does not come close to Air, at least in my book. *stares at avatar and sig... *sob*, poor Misuzu...*
Ooze... I meant in the context of the original storyline( the game). :heh: I'm not hoping for a 'Bad End' in Kanon, I just want the stories to be fleshed out in full, and in order to do that, there has to be sacrifices made by the characters along the way.

At this point, it is still possible for KyoAni to make a total carnage out of Kanon, but I don't think that is what the majority of us wants. :heh:

Cheers.

[orion]

I don't know about talking with Ayu...i think if he wants to talk about it, it is better to do so with some one who was involved in all that... like Nayuki perhaps. Heck, even Akiko would be a better choice. And Ayu certainly does not seem smart enough to offer any form of advice.


Well, I wasn't meaning Ayu giving Yuichi advice, but rather Ayu getting character development because of it. She could probably give some comfort. I think this is also an excellent chance for Ayu to get depressed and those memories to jump start.

Yeah, I get a little teary eyed when I think about Misuzu too. We definitely don't need a repeat of that in Kanon imo.

[FatPianoBoy]

I do believe AIR has now been ruined for me :frustrated:

[Vexx]

Okay people.. .enough AIR spoilers, eh? Tag items from other series properly.

[kingdom_elladrel]

I just had rewatch this episode again. Excellent work from Kyoto Animation. Another scene that I liked would be the scene where Makoto meets Amano for the first time and she helps her "remember" her name and Yuuichi's name. Nice music to go along with it as well. That was a very touching moment, along with what I already mentioned which is the wedding scene and also right up to Makoto's disappearance.

[FatPianoBoy]

I said I wasn't going to worry about that final scene with Piro and Makoto on the hill, but it won't get out of my head. I don't want spoilers, I just want to know if that means something or nothing for later.
Seriously, it's driving me nuts.

[VRMN]

I said I wasn't going to worry about that final scene with Piro and Makoto on the hill, but it won't get out of my head. I don't want spoilers, I just want to know if that means something or nothing for later.
Seriously, it's driving me nuts.

It means nothing. It's a visualization of what Yuuichi would wish for at that point in time.

[toxic_trance]

Watching this episode once more is fine...but if u watch the last 3 together, then u will fell the brilliance of KyoAni even more. I actually dared to do it, and man is my heart aching badly...

Just watching the last 3 is hurting so bad...I wonder if my heart is powerful to bear all 24 episodes in one go...

[Scep]

Maybe i need to watch the whole series again. After I saw the reviews on this episode, I went and watched all 10 episodes at one go but i didnt exactly feel that emotional. Probably 10 episodes at a go is too much :/

[orion]

Okay people.. .enough AIR spoilers, eh? Tag items from other series properly.

But shouldn't Misuzu be treated the same as Spike from Cowboy Bebop? Like people should know by now a version of what happens. I mean even the fighting game has a version of her ending in it. So, if you click on a fight that she wins on YouTube, you'll see it.

Besides, her ending isn't spoiled by saying "poor Misuzu". For all anyone could know, we could be teary-eyed because she actually married Yukito and missed out on a better guy from that school. ;)
or..
Poor Misuzu...She got pregnant and dropped out of high school.

[Skane]

Or alternatively, it's because she's a church mouse.


Narf.

[FatPianoBoy]

But shouldn't Misuzu be treated the same as Spike from Cowboy Bebop? Like people should know by now a version of what happens.

Except that Cowboy Bebop has been on local television in many places outside Japan and is almost ten years old ;). If you haven't seen it by now, you're either very new to anime (and probably not hanging around here) or you just don't care. Still, I'd tag it if I ever felt the need to reference it.
AIR just ran... when? 2005? I just haven't had time to go back and watch it yet.

[orion]

But Air the game has been around since September, 2000. The source material is 6 years old now.

However, I do apologize if I've potentially spoiled your future Air experience.

[aliensporebomb]

In the end, Yuuichi is surrounded by a street full of dead girls and lost dreams, he chugs the Jam and dies....

well, not really but the comedy is there to get you attached to the characters so when you learn the various truths or bad things happened .... tis a good evil.

I'm sorry, but that was so awful I had to laugh! Poor Yuuichi!

Ayu: "Uguuuuuu, chug the jam!"

[Vexx]

True that at some point you have to reveal that Jesus dies on the cross (omg spoiled) ... but *many* viewers do not play the games and not infrequently are unaware that the anime was based on previous material.

The first I'd *ever* heard of AIR for example was when the series started airing and someone said I had to watch it because of the animation quality. So I was quite literally knocked out of my chair by each climactic moment. I did not find out about the game until partway through the series and it is the first japanese software game I've ever purchased. (I only own four now) At least outside of Japan, its the exception rather than the rule that a viewer has been exposed to or even heard of the source material for some of these shows.

@aliensporebomb: thanks for noticing my lame attempts at humor :)

[Sorrow-K]

But Air the game has been around since September, 2000. The source material is 6 years old now.

However, I do apologize if I've potentially spoiled your future Air experience.The Air game has never been translated, so, for a lot of people, the only access they have to the Air story is via the anime TV series and/or the anime movie, both of which came out just last year. So, it's unreasonable to expect that the events of Air are no longer spoilers, unlike Cowboy Bebop or Star Wars Ep 5, in that everyone who wants to see those already has by now.

[Anacone]

And should we forget next generation? Whom everything is new and exciting. Should we spoil them about our knowledge because there's already something new in that moment. I don't think so instead we should courage them to look back in history.

[Guardian Enzo]

Well again, I'm a Kanon virgin - no exposure to the material in any previous form. So for me, this wrapped up Makoto's arc pretty much perfectly - undeinably sad as hell, but a balanced view that didn't exclude the miracle that her very existence represented. It was plenty tragic enough in itself - any more overt tugging at the heartstrings would have been cloying.

Now, on with business - Ayu's finally back in the game...

[Scribble]

What was especially bad about Makoto's death is that we're USED to her trying to harass Yuuichi EVERY night and failing. It's a routine that we're used to. Now she's dead, all of that is gone ;_;

[qwerty4]

this episode was nice. is had some touching scenes. especially the Amano bit.
y-y-yu-i-chi......YUICHI
the ending was beautiful and the animation helped....alot.

[Icehawk]

As another total virgin to this series and story, I have to chime in now as I just finnished watching this 10th episode and I have to say that these last few episodes have been some of the most tearjerking bits of media I have seen in a long time, I came very close to shedding tears from Air but managed to hold out, but this I just couldnt hold back, the sadness it envoked while watching made me start thinking of my own tragic helpless losses in life (like our old family cat that died 4 years ago whom I shared most of my life with up till then and who also slowly deteriorated during her last few months) As such I could do nothing but submit to the eyeball showers. :heh:

Im glad I decided to wait for this series to finnish airing before watching it as I know I wouldnt be able to accept only seeing 1 ep per week of this show.

[Rall)eon117X]

Yeah. This episode was great. I just finished the series today and this was the episode I rewatched after. Really was emotional. A couple tears escaped. This is the second time this has happened in an anime series for me! And both times were Key productions >.<". And I've watched quite a few series in the past 8 months or so.

First was Air with Misuzu crying out for her mom in ep 11 and now this!

This episode was great. I loved it. And now after seeing the rest of the series, I'm really happy :).

[Kaioshin Sama]

I will now finish the catching up and then go outside and watch the fireworks (Hooray for Victoria Day):



This seems to be it for Makoto's ability to maintain full conciousness and she has regressed to something akin to a fox. She can still wall upright apparently but cannot speak. Man I almost want the bitchy trick playing Makoto back. :( She still looks really cute in those pajama's though. Familiar music too even though I know I haven't heard it anywhere else before. Mishio seems to have a character now and is something more than the signpost in the right direction. She coaxes Makoto into remembering her name (Hooray!). She remembers Yuuichi's name too (I wouldn't want to but regardless she sounds impossibly cutesy when doing this). Back home Makoto give Yuuichi the beating of his life (ATA GIRL! :D :D). They then have a nice dinner at a fancy restaruant, which honestly all but seals Makoto's fate at this point. They then have go to get their pictures taken with Naiyuki and Akiko trying to coax her into coming over and Yuuichi attempts to but, sounds insincere and detatched as ever. They then do fireworks and afterward begins the trademark Key "The character is about to die on you scene" (In this case involving the usual fever as the catalyst. Makoto manages to make it through the night however. The next day Yuuichi reads the all-important manga to her as things are nicely tied together with a montage of Makoto moments. The music in the following scene on the streets is very melancholic, like its leading the Makoto and Yuuichi relationship into its final moments. You've gotta love how Akiko and Naiyuki are both deathly concerned a broken up about Makoto as they should be and that even the previously distant and cold Mishio is trying to hold things together, yet Yuuichi continues to appear insincere and distant (and I place the blame squarely on Sugita here, because I know Yuuichi is not supposed to appear this way). They arrive yet again at the clearing (right on schedule as has been the case for 3 episode now). They get married in a very nice a beautifully animated scene with great music, but it is unfortunately brought down a bit by Sugita's botched and insincere narration. A gust of wind knocks the veil off of Makoto's head however and she begins to cry (Oh I don't like it when these girls cry, nobody wants to see them suffer :( ). They play with her bell a little, but unfortunately she begins to fall asleep, and then suddenly she is gone (for such a sad end to this story Yuuichi doesn't seem that fazed at all). In fact the next day he's fairly chipper when talking with Mishio (though the nice inclusion of an instrumental version of the ending theme makes up for this a bit). The episode ends with Yuuichi dreaming of a miracle that would let Makoto be alive (and a very good use of the ending theme earlier on).

Plot/Character: 4/5. Everybody and story was phenomonal except for Yuuichi. I don't want to get into the details, but I just was not feeling his part at all. I also felt they could have done a little bit more with Makoto's last moments rather than just have her vanish. It wasn't perfect, but it was very good and I even got a little teary eyed during some of the more touching scenes of Makoto (though I didn't cry at all, what does that say about me though?)

Animation: 5/5. The animation budget was used in the right place in my opinion. Just looking at the clearing and watching the wind blow the grass blades across toward to horizon (how often do we see that kind of detail in a show). No messed up faces and some very nice scenes that left me quite impressed.

Music: 5/5. Every piece of music was used to it's fullest and was used in the right place. I can't say anything more other than I think the BGM was flawless.

Voice Acting: 2/5. Ooooh.... Okay how do I put this. Everybody but, Yuuichi/Sugita (who gets a huge Capital Red Ink F) gets an A. One has to wonder how Makoto's VA can do such a fantastic job, when all, but two lines of the episode just have her making cute noises, but it/she worked. Yuuichi/Sugita however brings things down almost immeasurably. His insincerity and failed attempts at conveying any sort of feeling or emotion left me baffled at just what the heck he is trying to do. This was Yuuichi's moment to evolve as a character and he should have and he probably would have were it not for Sugita's portrayal of him. Nontheless this section is not a complete loss thanks to the combined efforts of Makoto, Naiyuki, Akiko and Mishio's VA, who even combined did not have the number of lines Yuuichi had, yet managed to convey 10 times the feeling and passion into their roles in this sad episode.

Overall: 4+5+5+2=16/2= Eight Out Of Ten. This was a fantastic episode that was somewhat marred by Yuuichi's portrayal, but this should not deter others from enjoying it to the fullest.

[Vexx]

It'll be interesting to see if your opinion of Sugita evolves as you watch the last 8 episodes. I'll hold any observations until then :)

[Kaioshin Sama]

It'll be interesting to see if your opinion of Sugita evolves as you watch the last 8 episodes. I'll hold any observations until then :)

It's not that I've missed the sarcasm, it's just that he always sounds like he's being sarcastic about everything, even when the scene doesn't call for it at all (Like the narrarations and final Makoto moments in this episode).

I think it's just Sugita's voice, in which case maybe he can teach himself not to always sound like that for future series. He needs to find an off switch for that sarcastic sounding tone that permeates every role he does and then maybe I won't even be bothered by his voice anymore at all. I'd describe it as a lazy low tone drawl that sounds like he's almost phoning in his lines, or just not getting into the roles much. Like he can't be bothered. The problem is that this apparent feeling is then transferred to the charcter and it hurts the character and the scenes.

At least we dispensed with the spazzing for these last three episodes though, which is a substantial improvement, but I can't forgive Yuuichi's part in this episode. It's a shame because everyone else ranges from fine to excellent, even Mai at times has it nailed, but he just keeps dragging the scenes down for me.

I'd like to see if Yuuichi comes across in the latter parts of this arc any better in the Toei version since they've got a completely different voice actor. If he does I will know for certain where the problem lies.

[Vexx]

The TOEI actor ... hmmmm, just seemed to be less proactive (more of a traditional almost faceless harem lead). That's probably over-stated... but he just seemed wimpy? I have to be a bit careful because out of all the characters from the TOEI version, he was the most unpleasantly drawn and that certainly affected my view of him.

[Ascaloth]

The TOEI actor ... hmmmm, just seemed to be less proactive (more of a traditional almost faceless harem lead). That's probably over-stated... but he just seemed wimpy? I have to be a bit careful because out of all the characters from the TOEI version, he was the most unpleasantly drawn and that certainly affected my view of him.

"Wimpy" is a compliment to Toei-Yuuichi IMHO, Vexx-jiji. He's kind of like SF's Ryu; no discernable personality whatsoever in my eyes.

KyoAni Yuuichi, on the other hand, is true to himself, and sticks to his guns. That's a lot more than you can say about most other male characters in his situation.

[Vexx]

Well... the main win for the 2006 Yuuichi is that he actually acted like his source material rather than the "faceless software game lead" that so many other bland visual novels fall prey to.
A bit sarcastic, a bit slow to catch on yet witty ... but definitely not mayonaise.

[Ascaloth]

Well... the main win for the 2006 Yuuichi is that he actually acted like his source material rather than the "faceless software game lead" that so many other bland visual novels fall prey to.
A bit sarcastic, a bit slow to catch on yet witty ... but definitely not mayonaise.

Yep. And somehow, some people seem to think that's a bad thing....:heh:

[Ice Climbers]

Yep. And somehow, some people seem to think that's a bad thing....:heh:

I acknowledge that everyone has their own opinions, but from my point of view i cannot see why Yuiichi portrayed in the 2006 version is anything but great; He's a great character

[kohakuslayer]

I acknowledge that everyone has their own opinions, but from my point of view i cannot see why Yuiichi portrayed in the 2006 version is anything but great; He's a great character

It all depends on your definition of "great" character.

[Ice Climbers]

It all depends on your definition of "great" character.

LOL i guess but IMO he has the so called style :naughty:

[Archon_Wing]

Umm, apologies for being 3 years too late, but I've been watching this anime and I'm almost certain that this is the saddest story in the KyoAni/Key three. In fact I put this episode on hold for a little while until today because I knew it was probaly going to hit hard. ;)

A typical flaw in these Key stories is that they typically follow the pattern of: Annoying/cute girl with quirk ---> sudden bad news---> you feel like a jerk----> tragedy ---> you feel like an even bigger jerk. It's effective but it does often feel like a cheap shot because there's frequently no development and sometimes feels very shallow if one is being led purely by emotion. The tragedy typically just hits fast and out of nowhere. And you are "supposed" to feel sad.

But in the case of Makoto's arc, it may have started this way as Makoto was very, very annoying, but her gradual degradation was painful to watch, as well as the people around her who tried in vain to help her. The best they can do is buy her more time and ease her pain. So all we can do is brace for the moment and accept it for it us and Yuuichi, Akiko, and Nayuki must do so as well. Watching how people cope with something like that matters a lot too.

I applaud the series for not cutting corners and making something legitimately tragic here. Instead of engineering a reaction, they earn it. 10/10

[zette]

I've been rewatching the Kanon series recently and have just finished this episode, the end of Makoto's arc. My opinions towards it when I first watched the series in 2008 and my opinions now are more or less the same -- amidst all the brilliance that Kanon is, there is just one thing that I do not like about the series, and that is Makoto's arc.

The posts here and the overall poll rating basically shows that the general opinion of this episode is overwhelmingly positive. I can certainly understand that from an aesthetics point of view; the animation, especially during the wedding scene, was superb as usual from KyoAni and the BGM fitted perfectly. From a storyline point of view, however, I thought it was just a slightly above average conclusion to a mediocre arc. Reading the posts here, I can certainly see why the reaction has been so positive and how the episode can bring about a strong emotional response in the viewer, but for some reason I just can't feel those very emotions while watching this. I didn't want to say this at risk of sounding like a troll, but to be honest I felt really bored throughout the Makoto arc and couldn't care less about the character of Makoto and how things would turn out for her. I don't know, I just found the whole premise of this arc rather ridiculous to begin with. I understand that the cause of it all was a miracle that is a central theme in Kanon, but my suspension of disbelief can only go so far. It's weird though -- I can accept something like the Misae arc in Clannad, which has a relatively similar plot device (animal turning into a human to meet another human) as this. Perhaps it's something else I'm not liking about this arc that I cannot put into coherent sentences. It's pretty much the standard Key story though, and I'm a sucker for them so meh I don't know.

I'm glad though that I did not drop this series after this arc back in 2008, although I almost did want to. I really enjoyed the arcs of the other four heroines, most particularly Shiori's and Ayu's, and cannot wait to go through them again during this rewatch.

All that being said, I don't think I can give this ep a low rating. Like I said, it is beautifully animated and also provided a nice conclusion to the arc, leaving no loose ends. My main issue is with the whole arc, not this ep itself, so I would probably give this a 7.

[Archon_Wing]

I see 2 major problems with this arc that will hamper your suspension of belief.:

1.) It was too long; the first part of Kanon just meandered around for too long.
2.) The revelation that she is a fox WAS pretty dumb and out of left field. Mishio in the anime pretty much exists to explain the plot. In general this kind of expository character represents the worst kind of storytelling.

Another problem is the relationship and attraction is largely one sided, which can hurt your concern depending on your like of the character.

So you are probably right that the corresponding arc in Clannad works better.

Enjoying the Makoto arcs requires having to stick to the themes-- that is complete sacrifice for a just a chance to be with a love one. The other involves the pain of being ignored and need to have one's existence validated. In many ways, it's the only "pure" arc in Kanon. Also speaking of related stories...

Despite that show's issues and having a different theme, I think Yui's little story represents a more emotionally mature version of this concept

[Konakaga]

But in the case of Makoto's arc, it may have started this way as Makoto was very, very annoying, but her gradual degradation was painful to watch, as well as the people around her who tried in vain to help her. The best they can do is buy her more time and ease her pain. So all we can do is brace for the moment and accept it for it us and Yuuichi, Akiko, and Nayuki must do so as well. Watching how people cope with something like that matters a lot too.

I applaud the series for not cutting corners and making something legitimately tragic here. Instead of engineering a reaction, they earn it. 10/10

While I didn't cry to the ending this arc, I agree it was it was very sad to watch her degradation since it was tragic, and pretty emotional too. Though I also agree about your comment for the AB comparison.

[Triple_R]

On Archon_Wing's suggestion, I've recently started watching Kanon 2006.

My feelings on this arc are similar to zette's, but I'd probably rate this arc a 9/10 anyway.

I just can't suspend disbelief here. I just can't do it.

I'm sure I'd find the Makoto arc absolutely adorable, beautiful, and touching, if I could suspend disbelief, but there's just something about how this arc plays out that just makes it so hard for me to swallow at a basic acceptance level. Which is odd because, like zette, I could swallow the Misae arc in Clannad without too much trouble, and I liked it a lot. Perhaps its where the Misae arc is much shorter than the Makoto arc here, and very magical stories like this are a bit easier to swallow when they're short.

The Makoto arc here just feels a touch too surreal for me. I kind of cared about Makoto, and wanted to see her happy, but at some point, I just couldn't take this arc seriously any more.

[Archon_Wing]

Yea, I'd agree with you guys on some degree. It's a bit difficult to really get into Makoto's feelings beyond the basics and a few insightful quotes in earlier episodes. We don't really know what she really wants and feels besides Yuuichi, and Yuuichi's own feelings are vague. Which...
going back to Angel Beats.

There's more of a sense of wish granting on both sides there that makes moving on and letting go more understandable. We also get a glimpse of the desires of both sides throughout the show. Now, the execution isn't nearly as great as Kanon imo but the overall theme and final effect is more emotionally fulfilling and meaningful. So it's not too far fetched of me to say that Yui is an evolution of Makoto.

[zette]

@ Archon_Wing
I don't think length is the issue here. The first few eps mainly served to introduce the main characters and it is only after that that Makoto's arc is explored in depth. Nice point about Mishio though, it does seem as if the sole purpose of her character was just to explain the story and bring the plot forward. I really like the comparison to Yui's story in Angel Beats. The part where you mention about the "desire of both sides" being present in that is, I think, a good reason why I didn't like this. I could never really tell if Yuuichi did the whole marriage thing because he truly had feelings for Makoto or because he just wanted to see her move on.

After thinking about it, I guess my main problem with this arc is the fact that a fox could harbor romantic feelings, or something close to that, for a human. I can't suspend disbelief for this. Yes, I understand that animals can get attached to a human after prolonged interaction, but that is to the extent of loyalty and not full-blown romantic love like this arc makes it out to be.

[Triple_R]

@ Archon_Wing
I don't think length is the issue here. The first few eps mainly served to introduce the main characters and it is only after that that Makoto's arc is explored in depth. Nice point about Mishio though, it does seem as if the sole purpose of her character was just to explain the story and bring the plot forward. I really like the comparison to Yui's story in Angel Beats. The part where you mention about the "desire of both sides" being present in that is, I think, a good reason why I didn't like this. I could never really tell if Yuuichi did the whole marriage thing because he truly had feelings for Makoto or because he just wanted to see her move on.

After thinking about it, I guess my main problem with this arc is the fact that a fox could harbor romantic feelings, or something close to that, for a human. I can't suspend disbelief for this. Yes, I understand that animals can get attached to a human after prolonged interaction, but that is to the extent of loyalty and not full-blown romantic love like this arc makes it out to be.

I thought about this a bit more myself, and for me, the issue is that while I can kind of accept a fox harboring romantic feelings for a human (it's not much different than what I've seen in Pokemon before :heh: ), I find the coupling of that with severe emotional/intellectual degradation to be hard to swallow.

To put it another way, if the fox was capable of having strong romantic feelings for a human, then that suggests a certain level of self-awareness (on the part of the fox) to me. And that level of self-awareness contradicts with just how far Makoto degraded over time. Makoto didn't just become less human over time; she became like an infant of almost any species.

If Makoto hadn't degraded as far as she did, I'd have found this arc a lot easier to swallow.

By the way, I also get the impression that Yuuichi married her mostly to help her move on. That, plus he really did like that fox, and wanted to do everything he could to make amends for how he had treated her (both when she was a fox, and also for when she was a human in a comedic feud with him :heh:). Which is why he copes with the lost of Makoto pretty well; he was already emotionally prepared for it, and even taking actions based on it soon happening.

Edit: Oh, and the Angel Beats! comparison is a good one. I agree with you there, Archon_Wing.

[Archon_Wing]

After thinking about it, I guess my main problem with this arc is the fact that a fox could harbor romantic feelings, or something close to that, for a human. I can't suspend disbelief for this. Yes, I understand that animals can get attached to a human after prolonged interaction, but that is to the extent of loyalty and not full-blown romantic love like this arc makes it out to be.

You're right; a fox shouldn't be able to. That's why taking a human form and finding Yuuichi required a miracle-- one that wasn't gonna last very long and required the ultimate sacrifice.

But yea, it's not really an all out romantic story.

[XGeneral2000]

After thinking about it, I guess my main problem with this arc is the fact that a fox could harbor romantic feelings, or something close to that, for a human. I can't suspend disbelief for this. Yes, I understand that animals can get attached to a human after prolonged interaction, but that is to the extent of loyalty and not full-blown romantic love like this arc makes it out to be.

I actually found Makoto's attachment to Yuuichi to be almost completely non-romantic. My interpretation was that she took human form because she felt that was the only way she could stay close to him. Makoto misunderstood the whole "marriage" thing (as she did many other things). In the manga Yuuichi read to her, the couple vows to stay together forever, and that was what Makoto found so appealing in marriage. She didn't want to get married to Yuuichi to have a romantic, sexual relationship so much that she just wanted to be with him forever. She thought marriage just meant being together forever, so that's why she pursued it. Yuuichi went through with the marriage not because he "loved" Makoto, but because he knew it was Makoto's dying wish.

[zette]

Yeah, I was thinking perhaps I misunderstood what exactly the fox was feeling for Yuuichi. Your explanation makes a lot of sense -- Makoto's character has a lack of basic common sense and would indeed just interpret marriage to mean exactly what the manga spells it out to be, which is like you said to be together forever -- and I guess that is something I failed to pick up on. When I think about it like that, the whole arc does seem to be more touching. Interesting. I might just try watching just this arc again while adopting that point of view and see if it changes my opinion of it.

[OkamiNoKaze]

Well, with this episode, it's the last of having to catch up to where I left off the last time, and it was just as emotional this time around, as bonus got to share this arc with someone else, got them hooked on Kanon as well.