View Full Version : Mitsuki being wrongly accused
juri_miki
2003-11-06, 22:51
I see a lot of posts where people are blaming Mitsuki for all the events that have occurred in this show, but I don't see why people are giving her all the weight of the blame. Like people are going, "Well she made Takayuki late for a lot of his dates for Haruka and if she hadn't then, Haruka wouldn't have been in a coma." I think everyone is so quick to blame the females, especially other females, which is wrong.
If anything, I put a lot of the responsibility for a lot of the events, on Takayuki. One could bring up the argument that, if he had more balls back in high school and just told Mitsuki his feelings then him dating Haruka wouldn't have happened, therefore no accident, (maybe there would've been if it was just fate). Also, everyone blames Mitsuki for making him late, but if anything that's just Takayuki's fault, because he didn't have to talk to her right then and there, but he WANTED TO. Even though he knew he was late for those dates he still chose to be with Mitsuki then to fulfill his previous responsibility of meeting up with Haruka at the specified time. Like did he really have to buy Mitsuki that ring, at that time when he knew he was running late for his date with Haruka? No, of course he didn't, but he chose to do it. Did Mitsuki ever put a gun to this brother's head and demand that he stay with her? Of course not, it was of his own choice.
Another point, is where everyone scorns Mitsuki for sleeping with Takayuki. Remember everybody it takes TWO to tango. He could've refused, but he didn't. Of course he was a little incapicitated, but to go the next day to go look for a job, proved that he was very much aware of his actions. So, I mean, yeah he did like Mitsuki before and now he has her, even though the relationship has been nothing but sex, sex, sex with them. (Which I think has been to get over his guilt.)
Personally, I think Takayuki is a worthless bum and doesn't deserve either of them. He's too indecisive and ready to go with the next chick to offer up the goods to him. I'm sure that in the next episode, if Akane were to come up to him and offer to have sex with him, he'd do it and then leave Mitsuki in a split second. I feel bad for the both of them to be so in love with this guy. Shinji would be a much better catch.
And if he does go back to Haruka it would be nothing but a pure guilt trip. Like, to this day, I believe that the only reason he truly even stayed by Haruka's side in the beginning was because of sheer guilt. If it was more than just guilt he would've protested when her parents told him not to come back to the hospital. He didn't though. It's almost as if this guy has no real personality. Like I said, he's a worthless bum.
It is an important point to make: Mitsuki can offer her body, but Takayuki has to accept it.
ZGMF-10A
2003-11-06, 23:59
thats sad how she needs to offer her body to get a man when Hakura doesn't.... Takayuki didn't even mind if they didn't had sex .......... i think Hakura and Takayuki are going to be together no matter what....
I'd rather have a Haruka + Mitsuki lesbian ending. Takayuki is stupid, he should die, EVERYTHING IS HIS FAULT.
It's true :)
juri_miki
2003-11-07, 02:23
thats sad how she needs to offer her body to get a man when Hakura doesn't.... Takayuki didn't even mind if they didn't had sex .......... i think Hakura and Takayuki are going to be together no matter what....
I really think the only reason he was even with Haruka in the first place was because Mitsuki practically told him to go out with the girl, and he did like the nice little obedient dog that he is. To think he did it out of pure love for her, would mean that one has to rewatch those episode again, I think.
Also, some other poster noted in the circumstances of both of their relationships. When Haruka/Takayuki were going out everything was a lot simpler then. With Takayuki/Mitsuki the feelings and everything have become much more complicated. Takayuki was and will always be drowning in guilt. He was swimming in so much of it that he prolly really even notice Mitsuki until she gave up the goods. Once he got a taste of the cooch he was converted. I'm sure if he gets a taste of Haruka's cooch he'll be converted once again....
Kamui4356
2003-11-07, 03:40
I see a lot of posts where people are blaming Mitsuki for all the events that have occurred in this show, but I don't see why people are giving her all the weight of the blame. Like people are going, "Well she made Takayuki late for a lot of his dates for Haruka and if she hadn't then, Haruka wouldn't have been in a coma." I think everyone is so quick to blame the females, especially other females, which is wrong.
If anything, I put a lot of the responsibility for a lot of the events, on Takayuki. One could bring up the argument that, if he had more balls back in high school and just told Mitsuki his feelings then him dating Haruka wouldn't have happened, therefore no accident, (maybe there would've been if it was just fate). Also, everyone blames Mitsuki for making him late, but if anything that's just Takayuki's fault, because he didn't have to talk to her right then and there, but he WANTED TO. Even though he knew he was late for those dates he still chose to be with Mitsuki then to fulfill his previous responsibility of meeting up with Haruka at the specified time.
The thing is he knew that Haruka wouldn't mind him being late. I'm sure everyone has had a simliar experince, you're supposed to meet you friend/girlfriend/boyfriend, run into someone else, start talking and end up late. If the accident hadn't happened no one would have thought anything of it. Also it wasn't the first time Mitsuki did it. While the accident was, in a way, Mitsuki's fault, you can't blame her too much since she never intended for something like that to happen.
As for Takayuki sharing the blame, it's clear he blames himself for the accident, or it wouldn't have effected him to that degree. It's also possible that if he hadn't stopped to talk to Mitsuki and buy her that ring, Takayuki may have been hit by the car too. Who really knows what would have happened?
You know I am reallllly trying to stay away from this anime. But its so darn addictive that I can't. I just gotta make sure my sister doesn't see watching this. You never know what they will show in one episode :heh:
My feelings on Mitsuki:
I really despise her; I don't know its just something about her. The only credit I give to her is having sex with Takayuki so he can be sane again. Shes done her part now lets move on with Haruka. Its true though, if Mitskui hadn't of talked to him on Haruka's second date to the festival, or the huge one where she got in the accident, there wouldn't be any problem.
I see her as a backstabbing girlfriend. And don't tell me about well it has been 3 years since her coma. Mitsuki probably would have been trying to stall Takayuki on their dates.
I hope that when Haruka gets well enough she slaps Mitsuki in the face and call her what she deserves. But I don't think I will get to see that. Haruka seems like the girl who forgives and forgets. That would be a totally awesome scene, Mitsuki crying holding her face and we see a tear trickle over her ring.
The thing is he knew that Haruka wouldn't mind him being late. I'm sure everyone has had a simliar experince, you're supposed to meet you friend/girlfriend/boyfriend, run into someone else, start talking and end up late. If the accident hadn't happened no one would have thought anything of it. Also it wasn't the first time Mitsuki did it. While the accident was, in a way, Mitsuki's fault, you can't blame her too much since she never intended for something like that to happen.
As for Takayuki sharing the blame, it's clear he blames himself for the accident, or it wouldn't have effected him to that degree. It's also possible that if he hadn't stopped to talk to Mitsuki and buy her that ring, Takayuki may have been hit by the car too. Who really knows what would have happened?
Heh...and That's why you get a car, and pick up your date from their house :) Easier that way.
And always be on time...just RIGHT on time...but it's also fun to show up unexpectedly :)
Heh...and That's why you get a car, and pick up your date from their house :) Easier that way.
Bah, then you have to be sober ;)
Cars suck. With those you can't do the oh-crap-I-missed-the-last-bus trick
It's funny that some people blame Mitsuki for the accident, but nobody has blamed the person who was actually driving the car that hit Haruka. It was prolly some drunk driver who had to go to court:
Judge:"Due to your carelessness, a girl is in a coma. What do you have to say for yourself?"
DrunkDriver:"But judge, if Mitsuki wouldn't have made Takayuki late, Haruka would have been alright!"
Judge:"You know, you're right. You're free to go. Now, don't ever do it again."
DrunkDriver:"Woohoo! Time to get my drink on! There's a new bar near the elementary school I haven't tried yet..."
Judge:"Officers, put out an APB for this bitch Mitsuki." I still think this quote from the Mitsuki thread is the most undisputable. :p
Alright, everyone blames Mitsuki, but I agree with a few that Takayuki is the cause of the whole mess. He is indecisive, probably he like Mitsuki first, then grew to like Haruka too. So he couldn't bear giving up anyone of them. Maybe that's why he appear to be haruka's boyfriend, but yet willing to spare abit of his dating time to buy Mitsuki a ring for her Birthday.
I also believe that both are feeling equally guilty for having a small part in that accident. Could be why Takayuki took it so hard initially and Mitsuki thought she can redeem and relieve herself by helping Haruka take care of Takayuki. Apparently the pressure and the needs are too strong and they when off the track. Honestly speaking, I think some people when in love can really do some silly things like trying to imitate her, learn her hobby, spy on her... might sound abit perverted, but loving is something that everyone has to take some time to learn and yet never master completely, all I can do is quote from Agent Smith ~ He's only human... :p
I am not condoning anybody, I just think nobody's perfect. And this is just fiction, so it appears the scriptwriter has succeded in creating a character that people can love and hate at the same time. This series is defintely worth watching. Just my 2 cents... :o
uhm... saku~ya you are partially right ;)
Haruka would never slap Mitsuki, i just don't see it out of her nature. But she will have a major disappoinment / crash when she will find out what actually happened.
As for Mitsuki, i can't really blame her for anything. I know this type of person. They sacrifice too much for somebody else without getting any reward. She just succumbed to her feelings in the end. She also hinted Takayuki that several times even before he and HAruka actually got together (she admitted that firstly she talked to him just for Haruka's sake, but that changed].
If somebody remains to be blamed, that is Takayuki for being lame and undecided.
I'm very curious how this will go on. My prediction about this is here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=277) :heh:
Heh...and That's why you get a car, and pick up your date from their house :) Easier that way.
And always be on time...just RIGHT on time...but it's also fun to show up unexpectedly :)
Young guys have cars are usually the bad guys in the anime don't you see? ;) Normal high school students in Japan don't usually have the ability to own a car, contrary to how it is here in US.
Durandal
2003-11-07, 15:15
I agree for the most part with Juri_Miki, it's not one person thats at fault here. However I think that this whole anime is based on being victims of circumstances. The characters do what they feel is right, we make the judgment calls.
Oh my gosh!. I don't know why some people keep blaming Mitsuki for Haruka's accident. She never knew Takayuki was running late and she never held a gun at his head and told him to stay with her and forget his date.
Some people are acting like she hired someone to run over Mitsuki or something. If anyone should be at fault for Haruka's accident its Takayuki..... and the car driver, hehe.
And all the Haruka fans should try to realize that if it wasn't for Mitsuki, there wouldn't have been a Haruka +Takayuki relationship. If it wasn't for Mitsuki Takayuki wouldn't have gone out with her, and we all know that Takayuki was ready to turn down Haruka in a instant. He even said he is only going out with Haruka because Mitsuki told him to, its not because he liked her.
So you guys can hate Mitsuki all you want but if it wasn't for her then Haruka would have probably commited suicide of something after getting turned down by Takayuki. lol
Takayuki obviously had some feelings for Mitsuki, and thats why he did almost anything she told him to. So both Mitsuki and Takayuki were holding in their feelings for each other, but as fate now has it they somehow ended up together.
Personally, i hate Takayuki's guts, and i don't think he deserves any of the girls. But since this is a romance series i'm sure he will end up with one of them in the end.
So i think he will end up with Mitsuki in the end because leaving your current girlfriend who has taken care of you for 3 years to go back to your old girlfriend is just wrong. -_-
Actually, Mitsuki knew very well that Takayuki was going to meet Haruka on a date, and it was also clear that he was in a hurry. When Takayuki tried to take off, Mitsuki pulled out her birthday as an excuse to keep him around. And she knew she was out of bounds by the expression in her voice -- she stuttered a bit in a way that shows she was forcing it out. Fighting with her concious.
They probably spent a good 10 minutes or so while they walked down the street while she picked out what she wanted. When they were done, we see a shot of Haruka waiting -- so the accident hadn't happened yet. Woudl those 10 or so made the difference? Hard to say, it's slicing it really thin. But that's not the point -- the timing is just too close to matter to them, and they will reserve the right to feel responsible for it.
Also, I don't know about any of you, but I would consider that ring to be a bloody ring of accussaion and guilt. I'd probably deliberately lose it somehwere where I was unlikely to find it again. But Mitsuki kept it and wore it for years, like some kind of demonic symbol of her greedy triumph. LOL.
Wrongfully accused? How so?
Mainly what I see people accusing her of is:
A. Distracting Takayuki from his dates.
Both times she used something that's fairly hard to say no to. One was "I really need to talk about something important" (prevailing upon his friendship) and the other was "It's my birthday [so come and buy me something]" (again prevailing upon his friendship). No, she did not hold a gun to his head, but neither did she give him the option of "Oh, you're busy? How about after the date, or later this week?"
Since Mitsuki is his friend, and she's appealing to his sense of duty as a friend, it would be rude to turn her down in both instances. Granted, could he have said "Gee, I'm running late. I'll buy you dinner tommorow to make up for it!"? Absolutely. But you seem to fail to recall that both times it was her pushing him to break his dates.
Then there's always...
B. Having sex with Takayuki at a time when he vunerable and not thinking straight
Okay, who was the one that instiganted contact here? It's not like nearly-comatose!Takayuki looked at her and said "Hey, bay-bee, I know what'll fix me right up! Take off your clothes!"
She's not completely to blame for either of these, yes, but again, she is the one that started it. It's not like Takayuki met her when he was on his way to Haruka and said "Hey, I'm running late, but here, let me stop and take even MORE time to buy you something! Oh, it's your birthday? Even better."
Again, Mitsuki is human. People want to set her up as this poor, angelic long suffering friend, when she hasn't exactly been the best friend someone could have. I don't think she's a slutty whore or anything, I just think that she's more selfish than some of her fans care to admit. And while these things might not be entirely her fault, it's hardly as if she had no part to play in what happened.
Key Board
2003-11-07, 21:09
Agreed.
She was forced to a breaking point and understandably so, since she apparently had to bear most of the burden of the situation.
Shinji was in his own world, and GOD KNOWS where Takayuki's parents are.
Of course, there was Akane, but she too was preoccupied with Haruka and she too had her own school life to worry about.
CrazyFlamer
2003-11-08, 03:11
Some pretty strong points being thrown back and forth. I would like to say one thing. Apparently Kimi ga Nozomu has attratied a very mature aduidence(sp). The different views seem to be strong, but yet there's not even a hint of fighting. After reading them I have to say I love the anime a lot more than before which I didn't even think to be possible.
I myself am a huge Haruka fan. My girlfriend in real life is so much like her it isn't funny. I was so sad when that car came and suddenly ruined things. I didn't blame Mitsuki, I blamed it fully on the drunk driver.
Anyway, just thought i'd share that.
[QUOTE=Crimson]
So you guys can hate Mitsuki all you want but if it wasn't for her then Haruka would have probably commited suicide of something after getting turned down by Takayuki. lol
Actually, in episode 1, Takayuki had already turned down Haruka on the phone, and the scenes afterward had proved that Haruka still lived normally until Takayuki took her from the train station to the mountain and confuessed to her that he liked her.
Sepiraph
2003-11-08, 09:13
If anything, I'd blame the driver. It is an accident and one can't place a blame on Mitsuki for causing it.
Also, I don't know about any of you, but I would consider that ring to be a bloody ring of accussaion and guilt. I'd probably deliberately lose it somehwere where I was unlikely to find it again. But Mitsuki kept it and wore it for years, like some kind of demonic symbol of her greedy triumph. LOL. I dunno what to say if you think like that. :heh:
Couldn't it be a memorial for the first present that Takayuki gave her? A reminder to herself that she has a part in the accident? An additional reminder to say "I am to blame, I won't fight with Haruka over Takayuki...".
Hmm... its obvious that the ring as a reminder didn't work anyway. And maybe she did want to throw it, but can't bear to.
Hell that's a good point, maybe one of the future episode will tell us why she still wear that ring. :D
Here's how I see it:
1) Mitsuki IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACCIDENT AND HARUKA's INJURY!
2) Mitsuki is responsible for BEING A BACKSTABBING !#%!%!#. She really doesn't see haruka as a "precious friend". The !#%^$^
3) Its also part Takayuki's fault. He made that promise with haruka (in their house after doing it). He should've had faith that she would wake up eventually.
4) Now Mitsuki and Takayuki are both screwed since Haruka is awake now.
CrazyFlamer
2003-11-10, 02:37
Here's how I see it:
1) Mitsuki IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE ACCIDENT AND HARUKA's INJURY!
2) Mitsuki is responsible for BEING A BACKSTABBING !#%!%!#. She really doesn't see haruka as a "precious friend". The !#%^$^
3) Its also part Takayuki's fault. He made that promise with haruka (in their house after doing it). He should've had faith that she would wake up eventually.
4) Now Mitsuki and Takayuki are both screwed since Haruka is awake now.
As easy as it is to point and blame. If I think about that happening to me in real life... I really don't know what I would do. I mean think about it.. a year is a long time if nothing is happening, let alone 3 years.
How long do you honestly believe you could wait for Haruka to wake up? You two weren't even dating for too long before that accident. If you were the guy, how long would you wait? If you were the girl and saw the guy you loved deing in front of you.. how long would you wait to tell him? I say guy and girl there cause I want you to add yourself.
As I said above when I put myself in that situation I have no idea what I would have done. I'm curious if any of you think you know. Coming from the girl and guy stand points. Even Haruka's stand point. What would happen to Takayuki if Mitsuki after a year decided to give up on him instead of confessing her love? I don't think he would have made it through the next 2 years okay if he had noone. It seemed to me Takayuki was on the verge of sucided/drug abuse if Mitsuki wasn't there. Would Haruka want to awake to that?
I can't wait for a fansubbed verison of ep 6 lol.
*edit*
Were I to have read through the other thread I would have noticed my points have already been brought up again and again lol. Oh well.. if it's worth saying twice it's worth saying 3 times right?
*edit2*
....I just notice lunar's verison is out. Anything else I happen not to be noticeing?
lamort_noir
2003-11-11, 15:38
I see a lot of posts where people are blaming Mitsuki for all the events that have occurred in this show, but I don't see why people are giving her all the weight of the blame. Like people are going, "Well she made Takayuki late for a lot of his dates for Haruka and if she hadn't then, Haruka wouldn't have been in a coma." I think everyone is so quick to blame the females, especially other females, which is wrong.
If anything, I put a lot of the responsibility for a lot of the events, on Takayuki. One could bring up the argument that, if he had more balls back in high school and just told Mitsuki his feelings then him dating Haruka wouldn't have happened, therefore no accident, (maybe there would've been if it was just fate). Also, everyone blames Mitsuki for making him late, but if anything that's just Takayuki's fault, because he didn't have to talk to her right then and there, but he WANTED TO. Even though he knew he was late for those dates he still chose to be with Mitsuki then to fulfill his previous responsibility of meeting up with Haruka at the specified time. Like did he really have to buy Mitsuki that ring, at that time when he knew he was running late for his date with Haruka? No, of course he didn't, but he chose to do it. Did Mitsuki ever put a gun to this brother's head and demand that he stay with her? Of course not, it was of his own choice.
Another point, is where everyone scorns Mitsuki for sleeping with Takayuki. Remember everybody it takes TWO to tango. He could've refused, but he didn't. Of course he was a little incapicitated, but to go the next day to go look for a job, proved that he was very much aware of his actions. So, I mean, yeah he did like Mitsuki before and now he has her, even though the relationship has been nothing but sex, sex, sex with them. (Which I think has been to get over his guilt.)
Personally, I think Takayuki is a worthless bum and doesn't deserve either of them. He's too indecisive and ready to go with the next chick to offer up the goods to him. I'm sure that in the next episode, if Akane were to come up to him and offer to have sex with him, he'd do it and then leave Mitsuki in a split second. I feel bad for the both of them to be so in love with this guy. Shinji would be a much better catch.
And if he does go back to Haruka it would be nothing but a pure guilt trip. Like, to this day, I believe that the only reason he truly even stayed by Haruka's side in the beginning was because of sheer guilt. If it was more than just guilt he would've protested when her parents told him not to come back to the hospital. He didn't though. It's almost as if this guy has no real personality. Like I said, he's a worthless bum.
Ok first of all are you kidding me? If i expected anything to be on this type of board it wouldnt be a political aspect of womans rights and look at you your blaming the male for the situation you know what you are your a coward as mitsuke is a coward no since of accountability Have you forgotten your all out blaming others when in fact the one to blame is your own darn self obviously there is something wrong but I have too look at it from both aspects and the burden of fault lies heavily upon Mitsuke if you didnt realize and no this isnt a male chauvanistic attitude towards women its truth with "BEARING" where is your facts? god
2nd Your going to blame someone who is emotionally scarred throughout the whole anime whats up with that huh? You think he was well from the beginning you noticed the lack of emotions. About anyone could of strung him along with an ounce of persuasion skills Granted that makes him sound like a slut if you want but he seems troubled and your blind if you dont notice this the people who did his character design did it on purpose there is some background to his emotionless face first place to start is his ....ID!
3rd of all it doesnt state at all that he loved Mitsuke in high school i dont have to explain this its in the anime if you actually watched!
GOD YOUR INCREDIBLE AND YOUR ANALYSIS HAS NO BACKGROUND AND IT HAS TO BE THE MOST AMOUNT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL NON-SENSE IVE HEARD TODAY! THAT OF COURSE LACKS ANY PROOF WHAT SO EVER!
Ok first of all are you kidding me? If i expected anything to be on this type of board it wouldnt be a political aspect of womans rights and look at you your blaming the male for the situation you know what you are your a coward as mitsuke is a coward no since of accountability Have you forgotten your all out blaming others when in fact the one to blame is your own darn self obviously there is something wrong but I have too look at it from both aspects and the burden of fault lies heavily upon Mitsuke if you didnt realize and no this isnt a male chauvanistic attitude towards women its truth with "BEARING" where is your facts? god
2nd Your going to blame someone who is emotionally scarred throughout the whole anime whats up with that huh? You think he was well from the beginning you noticed the lack of emotions. About anyone could of strung him along with an ounce of persuasion skills Granted that makes him sound like a slut if you want but he seems troubled and your blind if you dont notice this the people who did his character design did it on purpose there is some background to his emotionless face first place to start is his ....ID!
3rd of all it doesnt state at all that he loved Mitsuke in high school i dont have to explain this its in the anime if you actually watched!
GOD YOUR INCREDIBLE AND YOUR ANALYSIS HAS NO BACKGROUND AND IT HAS TO BE THE MOST AMOUNT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL NON-SENSE IVE HEARD TODAY! THAT OF COURSE LACKS ANY PROOF WHAT SO EVER!
Flaming/attacking a person isn't really a good way to start an argument. Looking at your points in your argument
1. You say "Mitsuki is a coward and has no sense of accountability". Mitsuki throughout this series has expressed guilt and in that sense feels responsible for what has happened. This is even expressed in Episode 5 where she talks to Shinji and says straightout that she is responsible for what has happened.
2. In this argument you say that takayuki is emotionally scarred. Are you a clinical psychologist? In your own words that is "the most amount of psychological non-sense ive heard." He made his own choices based on his own free will. His weak indecisiveness makes him partially blame worthy. Being lame is NO excuse. Maybe he should have seen a psychologist when he was a kid or something.
3. You are correct that the anime doesn't say he "loved Mitsuki in high school." But clearly he had an interest in Mitsuki. In episode 1 he was definitely expecting Mitsuki to show up at the hill top to maybe confess something instead of Haruka showing up.
as brought up by a few people, i do believe that mitsuki is responsible for Tak being late for 2 dates, knowing that he is a nice guy and would listen to her on the first date and then get her a present before the accident date. but she wasn't behind the wheel of the car so she wasn't responsible for that. it seems that way because if Tak would have been on time Haruka wouldn't have been there at the time of the car accident, they would have been off on their date. that only makes her(Mitsuki) attempt to focus Tak's attention on her look a billion times worse.
About anyone could of strung him along with an ounce of persuasion skills Granted that makes him sound like a slut
Yeah! Takayuki is a dirty whore ;)
I can take the rabid Mitsuki fans but you're way over the top. Assuming that your post is one in defense of Takayuki (its a bit hard to tell) I must still say that you calling him "slut" was amazingly accurate. Previously I've only seen his as a wimp and spineless coward but you've opened my eyes. The man is a slut!
if Tak would have been on time Haruka wouldn't have been there at the time of the car accident, they would have been off on their date. that only makes her(Mitsuki) attempt to focus Tak's attention on her look a billion times worse.
In epsiode 2 Takayuki was already running late before bumping into Mitsuki!! The viewer doesn't really know when exactly the accident happened. Heck it could have happened prior to him bumping into Mitsuki. Everyone in this series is a victim of circumstances or otherwise known as another board member puts it as "shit happens". There really is nobody to blame.
There really is nobody to blame.
Where is the fun in that?
The "shit happens" point of view being expressed and apparantly held by some ppl on this forum is something I'll never be able to accept. Sure, sometimes shit just happens but you can not use "shit happens" as some blanket to cover up your own character flaws. You are largely responsible for the fortunes/misfortunes in your life so unless you have a good very reason you can not go around blaming some "circumstance" for your unhappiness.
The only "shit happens" event so far in the show is Haruka being hit by a car. The other characters are for various reasons not able to get over this. That's not "shit happens" it's weak character. If I'm not blaming someone I'm being fatalistic and to blindly belive in fate is no better than being dead.
In epsiode 2 Takayuki was already running late before bumping into Mitsuki!! The viewer doesn't really know when exactly the accident happened. Heck it could have happened prior to him bumping into Mitsuki. Everyone in this series is a victim of circumstances or otherwise known as another board member puts it as "shit happens". There really is nobody to blame.true they didn't flash digital watches on the characters at the time of the incident to show that they happened at the same time.
eMpTy265
2003-11-11, 18:17
true they didn't flash digital watches on the characters at the time of the incident to show that they happened at the same time.
But they seemed to suggest the time by switching the scene from Takayuki & Mitsuki to Haruka and VV, maybe that suggests that it was in fact an ironic moment where the accident wouldn't have happened if Takayuki didn't meet Mitsuki?
Then again, dramatic irony doesn't automatically puts Mitsuki at fault.
Where is the fun in that?
The "shit happens" point of view being expressed and apparantly held by some ppl on this forum is something I'll never be able to accept. Sure, sometimes shit just happens but you can not use "shit happens" as some blanket to cover up your own character flaws. You are largely responsible for the fortunes/misfortunes in your life so unless you have a good very reason you can not go around blaming some "circumstance" for your unhappiness.
The only "shit happens" event so far in the show is Haruka being hit by a car. The other characters are for various reasons not able to get over this. That's not "shit happens" it's weak character. If I'm not blaming someone I'm being fatalistic and to blindly belive in fate is no better than being dead.
heh... if one were to believe in the philosophy of 'fatalism', and that everything is more/less set up and nothing can be done... sure... shit happens...
as a matter of fact... everything that happens is just shit.
Of course, most people don't believe that... right?
Whether the decisions were based on bad situations / influences, I cannot say. But 'shit happens' cannot really justify the true nature of this anime.
Takayuki made decisions, Mitsuki made decisions, so did just about everyone else... (well maybe not Haruka, she didn't choose to get hit by the car... )
So, the decisions have their consequences, and that's what makes this anime so great. Each person has to live with his/her decisions, as a burden.
But they seemed to suggest the time by switching the scene from Takayuki & Mitsuki to Haruka and VV, maybe that suggests that it was in fact an ironic moment where the accident wouldn't have happened if Takayuki didn't meet Mitsuki?
Then again, dramatic irony doesn't automatically puts Mitsuki at fault.
. no her fault lies in the interuptions
she kept providing, it didn't matter that he was already late or that akane got hit, what mattered is that she was trying to get Tak's attention, even though he was taken by her Best Friend
Blaming Mitsuki for what happend is plain dumb! Mitsuki is to blame just as Haruka, Takayuki or any of the ppl in crowd who stood with Haruka and didn't enter the phone booth before her. The trueth is that the only one who could possibly be blamed for this is the driver. I mean.....driving into a phone booth?! How dumb can you be?! :bash:
Guys who refuse to accept "Shit Happens" are ignoring reality. Fact is that shit happens and there's nothing we can do about it. If shit never happend we wouldn't have had Tragedies(So no Kiminozo :nono: ). The fact that shit happens and there's nothing really we can do about it is what makes Kiminozo such a great and lovable anime!
I think you guys should stop blaming Mitsuki and start seeing her as the caring person she is. She actually set Haruka and Taka up although she had feelings for him. She also took care of Taka when no one else did. I agree that she's no saint but she's a good person :bow:... Holding her feelings for so long was probably hard and I would hate to imagine myself in her shoes.
It's funny how you all look at Haruka and Mitsuki as enemies who would tear each other apart if you put them in the same room. So far(ep 6) Mitsuki is still Haruka's best friend as far as they are both concerned, but it will probably end with a huge fight when Haruka gets back her memory. I hope Haruka would have the heart to forgive and understand Mitsuki cause I'd hate to see that friendship ruined (Yeah I know I'm being optimistic :dots: ).
Tragedies are when bad stuff happen even though you might have been able to prevent it .
"Shit happens" is out of your control. Haruka being hit by the car is not a tragedy. Its "shit happens".
The tragedy is Mitsuki,Akane,Takayuki totally fucking up their own lives after the accident. The fact that these people can do things for the better but chose not to is what's making this show great.
Tragedies are when bad stuff happen even though you might have been able to prevent it .
"Shit happens" is out of your control. Haruka being hit by the car is not a tragedy. Its "shit happens".
The tragedy is Mitsuki,Akane,Takayuki totally fucking up their own lives after the accident. The fact that these people can do things for the better but chose not to is what's making this show great.
Your exactly right. What happend to Haruka was really not anyone's fault other than the driver that hit her. Takayuki was running late but you can't blame that on him because he stopped to buy something for Haruka and lost track of time. This is something that happens to everyone, theres plenty of time when i had to stop to do someone, lost track of time and ended up being late to go somewhere. And a few times that i've been late had actually saved my life too *cough, 911 aka world trade center bombing*
Misuki shouldn't be blamed at all, she didn't know that Takayuki being late would cause Haruka to be in a accident, even if some of you Mitsuki haters things she deliberately caused him to be late -_- Haruka's accident still has nothing to do with her.
Mitsuki ain't no saint, but she has a good heart and she has sacrificed alot of things for the person she loves and even if some of the things she did was selfish, so what? She's only human and everyone has a selfish side to them.
Too many people are acting all rightious and like they're all saints when behind closed doors you will be doing the same thing your hating Mitsuki for... and if you hate Mitsuki you might as well hate everyone else in the world thats madly in love with someone.
Too many people are acting all rightious and like they're all saints when behind closed doors you will be doing the same thing your hating Mitsuki for...
Nope.
To make a long story short, there was once a very close male friend I liked. A lot. I'd even go so far as to say it was love.
There was this one time he was really in love with this other girl, and it really hit me hard, because I knew her too. (But we weren't friends or anything) In that period of time, he was completely unavalible to me, even to hang out like we used to. I'd call him up and he'd have plans to go out with her, usually clubbing.
Know what I did? Sucked it up. I was his friend. She was his girlfriend, therefore had a stronger claim to his time. And I knew if I was any kind of friend that I'd just have to deal with it and wait until he had more time for me. It was really hard, and sometimes I lost my temper with him ("You don't even try to make time for me anymore!") but nine times out of ten I'd just say "Oh, okay, next time then." Heh, hell, it still hurts just thinking about it...
So, yes, I do know what Mitsuki went through. I just think she's very weak, and there is NOTHING that says I have to condone that weakness of hers. Understand it, sure. Say "Oh, gee, I'd do the exact same thing"? No, because I wouldn't.
Nope.
To make a long story short, there was once a very close male friend I liked. A lot. I'd even go so far as to say it was love.
There was this one time he was really in love with this other girl, and it really hit me hard, because I knew her too. (But we weren't friends or anything) In that period of time, he was completely unavalible to me, even to hang out like we used to. I'd call him up and he'd have plans to go out with her, usually clubbing.
Know what I did? Sucked it up. I was his friend. She was his girlfriend, therefore had a stronger claim to his time. And I knew if I was any kind of friend that I'd just have to deal with it and wait until he had more time for me. It was really hard, and sometimes I lost my temper with him ("You don't even try to make time for me anymore!") but nine times out of ten I'd just say "Oh, okay, next time then." Heh, hell, it still hurts just thinking about it...
So, yes, I do know what Mitsuki went through. I just think she's very weak, and there is NOTHING that says I have to condone that weakness of hers. Understand it, sure. Say "Oh, gee, I'd do the exact same thing"? No, because I wouldn't.
Interesting story, but it doesn't pertain to Mitsuki's situation at all. Haruka went into a COMA. For THREE years. During the first year, Takayuki went into a very deep depression that he couldn't seem to get out of. Any friend at all(especially one that loved him romantically) would be hurting and wanting to be there for him in all ways possible. After a year of waiting, seeing him going off the deep end like that...well Mitsuki couldn't take it anymore.
Mitsuki never thought Haruka would wake up...and after three years, I don't think I would either. I'm not saying that it was okay for Mitsuki to do that, but just pointing out that it's not comparable to the type of situation that you were in since the girl was healthy and concious. :heh:
I don't hate Mitsuki, in fact, I could just say I go along with many of the other opinions where she's not an evil bitch like others make her out to be. Etc, etc. ::lazy:: :p
lamort_noir
2003-11-11, 22:30
Yeah! Takayuki is a dirty whore ;)
I can take the rabid Mitsuki fans but you're way over the top. Assuming that your post is one in defense of Takayuki (its a bit hard to tell) I must still say that you calling him "slut" was amazingly accurate. Previously I've only seen his as a wimp and spineless coward but you've opened my eyes. The man is a slut!
Ok wait a second hold up if you ever thought I was taking sides your sadly mistaken in my opinion the only one who isnt blame-worthy is Harauka and thats obvious she is the epitome of innocence and dont blame me for giving a psychological analysis myself since the previous person can why cant i and whats to say im no psychologist huh? You have know idea who i am and for saying i was attacking the person is just plain stupid I just feel they blew the fact that there a huge mitsuke fan out of porportion and btw that person who responded before you is a just plain accusational think before you speak and btw if your a mistuke fan i dont think you should be able to post because your exactly like a Democrat at a Republican party
trying to make everyone look bad since they dont believe what you believe that just plain ignorance ok if you have anything else to come back at me with go ahead but as long as your a hardcore mistuke fan it doesnt matter because your basing your theories on how much you like mistuke and dislike takuyaki obviously
and btw ill be the first to admit hes a slut but obviously everyone is just blind to the fact that there is something mentally wrong with this guy some ppl have what you call a conscious and if he had a straight head on his shoulders he would be able to be more accurate with his decisions
this isnt an attack on mitsuke fans because im better to just go head on and attack someone blatantly
lamort_noir
2003-11-11, 22:33
ok explain this to me again how Haruka is at all in fault and might i add look at my signature and avatar obviously im no hardcore fan like you i like it but im not basing everything on a different persons aspect i call it how i see it to put it in lamen terms =\
Ok wait a second hold up if you ever thought I was taking sides your sadly mistaken in my opinion the only one who isnt blame-worthy is Harauka and thats obvious she is the epitome of innocence and dont blame me for giving a psychological analysis myself since the previous person can why cant i and whats to say im no psychologist huh? You have know idea who i am and for saying i was attacking the person is just plain stupid I just feel they blew the fact that there a huge mitsuke fan out of porportion and btw that person who responded before you is a just plain accusational think before you speak and btw if your a mistuke fan i dont think you should be able to post because your exactly like a Democrat at a Republican party
Just because people are Mitsuki fans they shouldn't be able speak? If you haven't noticed this a forum. Its fine if you want to express your opinion on thoughts but calling a person a "coward" in your previous post is flaming.
Nope.
To make a long story short, there was once a very close male friend I liked. A lot. I'd even go so far as to say it was love.
There was this one time he was really in love with this other girl, and it really hit me hard, because I knew her too. (But we weren't friends or anything) In that period of time, he was completely unavalible to me, even to hang out like we used to. I'd call him up and he'd have plans to go out with her, usually clubbing.
Know what I did? Sucked it up. I was his friend. She was his girlfriend, therefore had a stronger claim to his time. And I knew if I was any kind of friend that I'd just have to deal with it and wait until he had more time for me. It was really hard, and sometimes I lost my temper with him ("You don't even try to make time for me anymore!") but nine times out of ten I'd just say "Oh, okay, next time then." Heh, hell, it still hurts just thinking about it...
So, yes, I do know what Mitsuki went through. I just think she's very weak, and there is NOTHING that says I have to condone that weakness of hers. Understand it, sure. Say "Oh, gee, I'd do the exact same thing"? No, because I wouldn't.
Well.... Like tem said, this does not pertain to Mitsuki's situation. Was that girl that liked the person you *loved* in a coma for 3 years? Did you give up your career goal while you take care of the person you loved all that time after he lost his mind? Was the person that was in a coma your very best friend? answer....NO!, so you don't know what Mitsuki went through at all, what you went through was not even close...
What you just explained is something that most people in love goes through. I'm sure tons of people can tell you that they have been in love with someone and that person falls for someone else and thats basically all that your saying here.. Its a nice little story but it has no basis for what i'm talking about.
All i'm really trying to say is that if anyone of you were in Mitsuki's shoes you would probably do the same thing so don't hate her for what she did.
So you can think that Mitsuki is weak for doing what she did all you want and the fact that you think your little situation is similar to Misuki's only proves that you don't understand anything she's going through.
True this is only anime, but even if it was reality i'm sure you would think the same...
Interesting story, but it doesn't pertain to Mitsuki's situation at all.
I was talking about Mitsuki's choices BEFORE Haruka went into the coma. Therefore, yes, it did pertain to her situation at one point. (Wouldnt have brought it up if I didn't feel it did)
All i'm really trying to say is that if anyone of you were in Mitsuki's shoes you would probably do the same thing so don't hate her for what she did.
Again, and you don't know that. I can say that I sure as hell wouldn't sleep with MY friend if he was going through so much of his own pain at the time. To heap my pain upon his too is just selfish and counterproductive. But that's just the way I feel.
Also, to assume things about people on a messageboard is rather silly. We are not all Mitsuki. We can feel her pain, but that does NOT mean all of us would do the same thing in the same situation.
I do not hate Mitsuki and think she's a lying whore or anything, but I don't exactly condone her actions either. I understand them, but they are not the same actions I would take. And, for some odd reason, I think I'm in a better position to say that about me personally than you are.
Key Board
2003-11-11, 22:56
Know what I did? Sucked it up. I was his friend. She was his girlfriend, therefore had a stronger claim to his time. And I knew if I was any kind of friend that I'd just have to deal with it and wait until he had more time for me. It was really hard, and sometimes I lost my temper with him ("You don't even try to make time for me anymore!") but nine times out of ten I'd just say "Oh, okay, next time then." Heh, hell, it still hurts just thinking about it...
So, yes, I do know what Mitsuki went through. I just think she's very weak, and there is NOTHING that says I have to condone that weakness of hers. Understand it, sure. Say "Oh, gee, I'd do the exact same thing"? No, because I wouldn't.
I think the fact you bursted out in anger occasionally proves you're quite similar to her. And your tale suggest that you did indeed try to pressure him to a certain degree, albeit with more self control.
However, as tem said, your situation cannot be accurately compared to Mitsuki's since you didn't have to factor in any unfortunate accidents.
Who knows, perhaps Mistuki would eventually chose your path. (Ie: letting it go) if Haruka's accident never happened and Takayuki and Haruka continued to date.
But it did.
Who knows, perhaps Mistuki would eventually chose your path. (Ie: letting it go) if Haruka's accident never happened and Takayuki and Haruka continued to date.
Yeah, I can agree with that. My point was that Mitsuki made some decisions that I disagreed with before the accident (and after, but that's a different story). What I was trying to express was that Mitsuki was weak in just dealing with things even before Haruka was put into a coma, and also that all of us have different ways of dealing with things, so "don't dislike what she does because you'd do the same thing" is not a valid argument.
That's all.
I was talking about Mitsuki's choices BEFORE Haruka went into the coma. Therefore, yes, it did pertain to her situation at one point. (Wouldnt have brought it up if I didn't feel it did)
Again, and you don't know that. I can say that I sure as hell wouldn't sleep with MY friend if he was going through so much of his own pain at the time. To heap my pain upon his too is just selfish and counterproductive. But that's just the way I feel.
Also, to assume things about people on a messageboard is rather silly. We are not all Mitsuki. We can feel her pain, but that does NOT mean all of us would do the same thing in the same situation.
I do not hate Mitsuki and think she's a lying whore or anything, but I don't exactly condone her actions either. I understand them, but they are not the same actions I would take. And, for some odd reason, I think I'm in a better position to say that about me personally than you are.
What actions of hers don't you condone? Your saying that when the person you loved fell for someone else you sucked it up, and thats exactly what Mitsuki did so i don't see where your going with this. And again, the person your friend liked wasn't even someone you knew so its easier for you to forget everything when its not your best friend he fell in love with.
Can you truly say that you would feel exactly the same if the man you loved fell in love with your very best friend?
and i'm not saying that everyone would do the same as Mitsuki in such a situation.
Any body can say they will do this or that in any position but when they are actually in that position you would be suprised how maby people will remember when they said * i will do this, if that happens to me*...
Yes you are in a position to say that about yourself personaly, but your not in a better position than me to say something about yourself that you haven't been through yet.
Your saying that when the person you loved fell for someone else you sucked it up, and thats exactly what Mitsuki did so i don't see where your going with this.
No, what I'm saying is that she didn't. She let her emotions influence her into interfering with the relationship, even though she probably didn't mean to. My point is that not everyone does that.
Yes you are in a position to say that about yourself personaly, but your not in a better position than me to say something about yourself that you haven't been through yet.
I really would prefer not to get into this. All I'm saying is that I think I know my reactions better than you would, so please don't lump me in with what you personally might do in the situation.
I shouldn't have even brought up my personal matters on an MB to begin with, so I apologize. Can we just drop it please?
lamort_noir
2003-11-11, 23:28
you know what I said what I said and I stand by it you yourself are blaming everything on Takayuki and yes i believe this is a area for opinions but this is ridiculous attacking a character if i was that person and had a real life situation like this how would i feel if i just read your post whose attacking who I think you are blind and all the other mitsuke fans that tried to attack my statement are too. Ok so you say this is a thread... no a forum to discuss our opinions so what how is my opinion not as good as yours? Even though your mislead by whatever means it means nothing it goes to show you have know experience if you respond to things like that and/or your the type of person who would back stab friends because you lost hope in your friend you say Takayuki lost hope what about Mitsuke or was it she just wanted to take the benefit of the doubt haruka is asleep its like different area codes as long as your not in range its ok to do things to that persons' significant other...
Listen to what you post before you post it... it might be your post but there is always going to be someone who disagree's with you especially with someone who has alot more experience and no i dont want your life story i dont want to hear how many guys/girls you been with to sound like you have experience because then you would be condemning yourself to sound like something you might or might not be therefore the view of you wont be so innocent will it? Do what you like take pop shots at my comments i dare you its not like your comments will be worth it hey i can keep up with you because I am the Rush Limbaugh of this board.
P.s. Minus the drug addiction that he was going through!
lamort_noir
2003-11-11, 23:33
Not to be childish but technically Mitsuke did "suck it up" and take advantage of the situation like i said b4 he would of given it to whoever would of shown concern under such emotional distress :( and you dont have to factor in a tragic occurence to have the same results ppl use whatever opportunity they get to lay claim to whomever and just because im a guy i can say that girls lay claim with what guys cant say no to *MOST THE TIME
*Use your imagination on this...
Key Board
2003-11-12, 00:05
Noir, your writing is rather incoherent.
Could you rephrase that?
Bah. Look, Mitsuki is the way she was. One cannot control which of one's own emotional levers will be pulled and how one will react to stimulus. Many people, in her situation, would simply bear the pain of losing someone you loved to your best friend. Others would stand down even if the other party was someone you hated. But others still, including Mitsuki, have difficulty denying themselves this. She tries not to betray Haruka. But she's still jealous. She tries to ignore her feelings, but she finds herself hanging onto them all the same. What made her like this? A wide range of factors contributed to her personality and emotional makeup that were building up since she was born -- she does not have direct control over any of this.
If you went back in time and told her that if she persisted that, even though she may get Narumi in the end, she will suffer for a long time and so will everyone around her -- will she resolve to never get in Haruka and Takayuki's way again? And if so, how long does that last? When she is depressed and in pain over losing him and she happens to run across on his way to meet Haruka, will she not automatically reach out and try to grab his attention? If she was strong enough to deny herself to begin with she would have done so. This is who she is, she can't really change that easily.
This is the meaning behind "fate". Everyone is trapped in an invisible cage of circumstance, condition, and perceptions. There are things a human being does automatically in response to stimulus that is outside concious control. So, again, if Mitsuki is made aware of all the trouble that will start because fo her feelings, can she, afterall, *change* those feelings? Will they not still pull her inexorably towards weakness and failing, just as a starving man is pulled towards the scent of food?
@ Noir, I never advocated any such position in blaming everything on Takayuki. That was the other poster and original message you were critiquing. I never have advocated in to telling people to believe what i believe in or saying my post is better than yours. There of course will be people who disagee with other people thoughts. If you were offeneded by any of my posts i apologize. Think whatever you want man......
juri_miki
2003-11-12, 03:20
GOD YOUR INCREDIBLE AND YOUR ANALYSIS HAS NO BACKGROUND AND IT HAS TO BE THE MOST AMOUNT OF PSYCHOLOGICAL NON-SENSE IVE HEARD TODAY! THAT OF COURSE LACKS ANY PROOF WHAT SO EVER!
You know what? I think that post you made was a little uncalled for. I found it immature and a poor reflection on you. I'm not here to start a flame war. I'm here to talk and discuss a show I like with other people.
So, stop attacking people because you may not agree with their opinions. If anything, instead of sending insults my way you should've concentrated more on supporting your weightless arguments. For everytime you insulted my arguments not once did you even offer up any concrete evidence to support your opposing claim.
As for the argument:
In this post I stated that people have let the sole blame be on Mitsuki, when that shouldn't be the case. I stated that she should not take all of the blame. The only person responsible for what happened to Haruka is the driver, that is very true yes, but even then we don't know why his car spun out of control. Even so, there were a lot of decisions made by these characters, that could've prevented the entire situation. That I stick by too.
The reason I blame Takayuki for the situation at large is due to him being indecisive and not being able to make up his own mind on what he wants to do. If he had done that in the beginning a lot of what happened might have been avoided. Other bad stuff would've happened then too, but then it might've been fate that Haruka got hit by the car.
Even though Takayuki was emotionally scarred he still has something called free will. That means he can make his own decisions. I purposely stated this for the simple fact that people out there blame Mitsuki alone for sleeping with Taka, almost making it seem like she singlehandedly started and continuing the relationship. It was up to Taka to accept what was offered to him and he did. I'm not going to dismiss all of his actions due to his extreme guilt trip. If Takayuki can't even be honest with himself what makes you think he can be honest with these two girls that he's just dragging along. He himself has insecurity issues and to say he doesn't is a complete denial of this boy's character.
I have some ideas on the "it takes two to tango" part... As seen, many fans here accuse Mitsuki of using her body as bait. If so does that mean Takayuki is the victim?
The truth is, you don't see Takayuki accusing Mitsuki of that. And the next day, they were acting like couples in love for years, there were no sign of remorse or guilt. Neither did he accuse Mitsuki of anything, nor did he say anything like "I shouldn't have betrayed Haruka... I shouldn't have succumbed... I should distance myself from Mitsuki... I should tell Mitsuki what we did was wrong...". Was it because Takayuki put it off so that they will have more chance to lay together?
Think about that... hmmm... :D
lamort_noir
2003-11-12, 10:42
Noir, your writing is rather incoherent.
Could you rephrase that?
Sorry Key board if you couldnt get that then I cant tell you because I am too adult to tell a child what he/she should know
lamort_noir
2003-11-12, 10:46
Bah. Look, Mitsuki is the way she was. One cannot control which of one's own emotional levers will be pulled and how one will react to stimulus. Many people, in her situation, would simply bear the pain of losing someone you loved to your best friend. Others would stand down even if the other party was someone you hated. But others still, including Mitsuki, have difficulty denying themselves this. She tries not to betray Haruka. But she's still jealous. She tries to ignore her feelings, but she finds herself hanging onto them all the same. What made her like this? A wide range of factors contributed to her personality and emotional makeup that were building up since she was born -- she does not have direct control over any of this.
If you went back in time and told her that if she persisted that, even though she may get Narumi in the end, she will suffer for a long time and so will everyone around her -- will she resolve to never get in Haruka and Takayuki's way again? And if so, how long does that last? When she is depressed and in pain over losing him and she happens to run across on his way to meet Haruka, will she not automatically reach out and try to grab his attention? If she was strong enough to deny herself to begin with she would have done so. This is who she is, she can't really change that easily.
This is the meaning behind "fate". Everyone is trapped in an invisible cage of circumstance, condition, and perceptions. There are things a human being does automatically in response to stimulus that is outside concious control. So, again, if Mitsuki is made aware of all the trouble that will start because fo her feelings, can she, afterall, *change* those feelings? Will they not still pull her inexorably towards weakness and failing, just as a starving man is pulled towards the scent of food?
Hmm Finally someone who understands reason...
She is what she is nothing can change that but, believing in fate now thats a totally different question that I will stay out of although placing your faith in the hands of fate is like one blind superstition
lamort_noir
2003-11-12, 10:49
You know what? I think that post you made was a little uncalled for. I found it immature and a poor reflection on you. I'm not here to start a flame war. I'm here to talk and discuss a show I like with other people.
So, stop attacking people because you may not agree with their opinions. If anything, instead of sending insults my way you should've concentrated more on supporting your weightless arguments. For everytime you insulted my arguments not once did you even offer up any concrete evidence to support your opposing claim.
As for the argument:
In this post I stated that people have let the sole blame be on Mitsuki, when that shouldn't be the case. I stated that she should not take all of the blame. The only person responsible for what happened to Haruka is the driver, that is very true yes, but even then we don't know why his car spun out of control. Even so, there were a lot of decisions made by these characters, that could've prevented the entire situation. That I stick by too.
The reason I blame Takayuki for the situation at large is due to him being indecisive and not being able to make up his own mind on what he wants to do. If he had done that in the beginning a lot of what happened might have been avoided. Other bad stuff would've happened then too, but then it might've been fate that Haruka got hit by the car.
Even though Takayuki was emotionally scarred he still has something called free will. That means he can make his own decisions. I purposely stated this for the simple fact that people out there blame Mitsuki alone for sleeping with Taka, almost making it seem like she singlehandedly started and continuing the relationship. It was up to Taka to accept what was offered to him and he did. I'm not going to dismiss all of his actions due to his extreme guilt trip. If Takayuki can't even be honest with himself what makes you think he can be honest with these two girls that he's just dragging along. He himself has insecurity issues and to say he doesn't is a complete denial of this boy's character.
I would never admit to having a "flame war" with anyone thats ridiculous look at you now making me look like the bad guy thats so like you and btw just so i can bring it up again originally you stated how it wasnt mitsuke's fault at all obviously you took to my message and understood it somewhat and finally realize that there is equal blame between the others but tell me how the heck is haruka to blame? was it her having feelings that makes you mad? what is it? Why must her emotions be pushed aside?
lamort_noir
2003-11-12, 10:55
I have some ideas on the "it takes two to tango" part... As seen, many fans here accuse Mitsuki of using her body as bait. If so does that mean Takayuki is the victim?
The truth is, you don't see Takayuki accusing Mitsuki of that. And the next day, they were acting like couples in love for years, there were no sign of remorse or guilt. Neither did he accuse Mitsuki of anything, nor did he say anything like "I shouldn't have betrayed Haruka... I shouldn't have succumbed... I should distance myself from Mitsuki... I should tell Mitsuki what we did was wrong...". Was it because Takayuki put it off so that they will have more chance to lay together?
Think about that... hmmm... :D
Truth be it I have said it once ill say it again Takayuki has become a vulnerable slut and his problems dont help with it and of course his pain from haruka doesnt help it but takayuki is a "victim" a "victim of circumstance" and thats the only victim he is and btw
WHY HASNT ANYONE TOLD ME WHY THE HECK IS HARUKA TO BLAME AT ALL? What did that innocent girl do? and i dont mean sexually innocent i mean blame-free girl have to do with this? since its obvious she went against culture but this isnt a anime about keeping tradition now is it?
Wow! Lamort_noir. I'm really impressed. I must compliment you on your trolling skills. Your style is quite different from the common but when encountering a troll so refined such as yours all I can really do is take of my hat and bow before you.
Some of your trolling techniques that I really appreciate are:
* Your total refusal against punctuation. To use this trick in a forum where most posters really care about their writing style is pure genious!
* Your use of french in your sig. Thats just wonderful. That will piss off those froggie-hating americans at least on a subconscious level :)
* Misspelling the word "Connoisseur" and labelling yourself as a construction worker on your personal preference page will further tick off the oh-so common KgNE fan that seems to belive that being an intellectual is actually a good thing.
Well again. Hats off to to you. You have my praise.
Lamort_Noir, i can bearly understand anything that your saying, and posting four times in a row isn't helping either...
question, when in the eps did it ever show that mitsuki had interest in Tak before he hooked up with Haruka? i don't think she did. it was more like she felt the loss of his attention when he started dating Haruka and then realized she had feelings for him. from that point on she kept interrupting Tak on his way to see Haruka for his dates. At no point did she suck it up and defer to her best friend. she just didn't blatantly pursue Tak, she was all shady business about it.
Actually, it was pretty clear she had more-than-just-friends feelings for Takayuki from even before he got together with Akane. Note the phone call she gave him asking wether or not he accepted Haruka -- it was glarringly obvious that the acceptance had a deep impact on her. That's not to say she was fully understanding of her feelings at the time -- only that it was a realization that crept up on her, and when she realizes it fully, it's too late. And it's also clear from Takayuki's outburst in ep.1 that he thought of Mitsuki as more than just a friend.
But Mitsuki didn't have the strength of character to just quietly give way to Haruka and burry her feelings. She attempted to engage him and latch onto him -- at this point, she's still just a teenager trying to work out these strong feelings. The last guy that asked her out was rejected, and she "didn't know" how she felt about him. Exactly like Takayuki and Haruka at first. When she declined the boy, it was really a declaration of her intent to not give up on her feelings, whereas in Takayuki's case it was a resignation to the inevitable and starting anew -- and suprise, he found it easy enough to fall for Haruka. Mitsuki just didn't have it in her to let go right away, and she started to become jelous (refusing to speak to Haruka) because her situation had become hopeless with her best friend firmly attached to the object of her desire. She probably secretly wished for the relationship to turn sour, but at the same time didn't want to hurt Akane. In her weak, immature fashion she wanted it all, basically.
And she KNEW what she was doing went against her friendship with Akane when she clung to Takayuki on the day of the accident. She just, at that moment, was controlled by her weaknesses. It wasn't pre-meditated, the situation just sort of lept at her, and she jumped the way her heart went, that's all.
Actually, it was pretty clear she had more-than-just-friends feelings for Takayuki from even before he got together with Akane.
...
She probably secretly wished for the relationship to turn sour, but at the same time didn't want to hurt Akane.
...
And she KNEW what she was doing went against her friendship with Akane when she clung to Takayuki on the day of the accident.
I just love your Freudian slips. =D
Er, just so it doesn't look like I'm spamming... yeah, I don't think Mitsuki deserves all the blame that's being heaped upon her by some folks. Er... that's all. I'm too lazy to write stuff to defend her. :heh:
juri_miki
2003-11-13, 10:55
I would never admit to having a "flame war" with anyone thats ridiculous look at you now making me look like the bad guy thats so like you and btw just so i can bring it up again originally you stated how it wasnt mitsuke's fault at all obviously you took to my message and understood it somewhat and finally realize that there is equal blame between the others but tell me how the heck is haruka to blame? was it her having feelings that makes you mad? what is it? Why must her emotions be pushed aside?
*sigh*
Well at least I can kinda understand this post. I do see improvement.
How am I making you out to be the bad guy by pointing out your behavior? You did that on your own. I wasn't making up anything, the proof is all in your own posts.
As for what you said, if you actually, read and understood my inital post I stated that I put a lot of responsibility on Takayuki. I also stated in there about it not being fair about people giving Mitsuki all of the blame. Then I mentioned somewhere about it taking TWO to tango, I never said one. Which in fact means, that I never fully blamed Takayuki solely. In some situations I solely blamed Takayuki, because it was nothing but free will and choice. For example, even though he was late for his dates he set aside his responsibilities and tended more to Mitsuki than his own girlfriend. That was a choice he made. Even though Mitsuki made the offer, he didn't have to take it. What's that saying, you can take a horse to a lake, but you can't force him to drink the water? That refers to free will. Takayuki had that, so he's not just the victim of circumstance only.
It was just your oh so exceptionally sharp reading abilities and comprehension skills that led you to believe the opposite. So I guess when I put it in a manner that was easiest for you to understand then you claim that I somehow understood your point when I retyped it. Whatever man.
Also, I believe there was this whole post where GTUB, I believe I could be wrong, had expressed something about a big web of fate being to play. I don't know if I can fully believe that. I mean sure, there are things set, like you are fated to die or you fated to go to the bathroom every so often, but other than that I believe it's your own actions many of the time that seal your fate, or maybe not fate so much as it is consequences.
Like for example, I'm walking down a street, with my headphones not paying attention, and then I cross the street at a green light. Which results in me getting hit by a car and dying. Was it fate that I was hit by that car and died? Or was it a consequence of my actions? What if I had only been paying attention to what I was doing and saw that the light was green and waited for it to turn red, which would've meant that I avoided the speeding car? Did I then avert fate?
Like for example, I'm walking down a street, with my headphones not paying attention, and then I cross the street at a green light. Which results in me getting hit by a car and dying. Was it fate that I was hit by that car and died? Or was it a consequence of my actions? What if I had only been paying attention to what I was doing and saw that the light was green and waited for it to turn red, which would've meant that I avoided the speeding car? Did I then avert fate?
In Haruka's case it's different. You are putting yourself in danger by jaywalking and ignoring the signals. Takayuki's late to date does not constitute increasing risk of Haruka's being hit by a car. Normally that wouldn't happen, unlike when you jaywalk. It's all fate if you think about it. Everyday people are late for their appointments, dates, meetings, whatever. But in how many cases has their actions of being late cause so much agony for the people around them?
question, when in the eps did it ever show that mitsuki had interest in Tak before he hooked up with Haruka? i don't think she did. it was more like she felt the loss of his attention when he started dating Haruka and then realized she had feelings for him. from that point on she kept interrupting Tak on his way to see Haruka for his dates. At no point did she suck it up and defer to her best friend. she just didn't blatantly pursue Tak, she was all shady business about it.
I think she explained it in an indirect way in the 2nd episode (the festival night).
Mitsuki was telling Takayuki that she had liked for some time the guy that told her she would look better with short hair (Takayuki?), and that she would be faithful to her feelings like Haruka had been.
Then Shinji appears with Haruka and starts yelling at him (maybe he was suspecting that something was going on between them).
To All Mitsuki supporters:
Say what you want in defence of Mitsuki, but let me tell you, I've played the game. And hell is girl is one sex mad slut. Takayuki and her do all kind of sex acts... some of which most girls wouldn't even dream of letting you do. I'm not going into detail for reasons we all know, but lets just say he does some pretty wild things to her.
Anyways she clearly had to use her body to get him, and at the end of it all that's all she has to offer to him... sex and more sex. The girl is a slapper, plain and simple. And while maybe it wasn't her fault that Haruka's accident happened. but she sure as hell was bang out of order for taking advantage of Takayuki while he was in a bad frame of mind. Taking advantage as in giving him some sweet sweet candy :naughty:
Then again if a girl that looks like Mitsuki was real and offering sex on a plate, I'm sure many of us (Guys, and some girls :naughty: ) here wouldn't say no...
To All Mitsuki supporters:
Say what you want in defence of Mitsuki, but let me tell you, I've played the game. And hell is girl is one sex mad slut. Takayuki and her do all kind of sex acts... some of which most girls wouldn't even dream of letting you do. I'm not going into detail for reasons we all know, but lets just say he does some pretty wild things to her.
Oh come on, that's not a valid reason to call her a slut. What she does in the bedroom with Takayuki doesn't make her anymore or any less of a person. I mean, I'm sure alot of people that you know are doing crazier things than you think. :p
Besides, a slut is usually referred to as someone promiscuous. When is Mitsuki promiscuous? She's slept with Takayuki....um....and...Takayuki. Wow. Not to mention she sleeps with him because she loves him. Again, that is not the common definition of a slut.
Key Board
2003-11-13, 18:00
Do you really have the game, or did you just download the CGs?
If you do have the game, did you comprehend the story?
As tem said, she did that out of her feelings for Takayuki.
If you played the game, you'll notice that it was Takayuki who instigated all of the "kinky" sex. She's weak against Takayuki's advances, yes. That I admit.
You also have to consider that they're an adult couple with needs, and they're already in the stage of relationship where sex happens more frequently.
LOL. I have this image of Takayuki comming home, Mitsuki is there in the apron making food. Then he smiles and pulls out a length of rope, a meat thermostat, a long set of cooking tongs and a box of birthday candles. He says: "I've been having doubts about our relationship, so..."
outlaw55
2003-11-13, 18:56
geez, they weren't friggin married, he went out with her for what.....THREE WEEKS.....my gosh, I'd like to see any of YOU be that dedicated to someone you HARDLY dated. You also are talking about "he should have had faith she would wake up", why should he? She could die and he could miss chance for happyness by waiting for her. For all he knew she could have been asleep for YEAR, maybe DECADES.
The fact that makes it hard is that Mitsuki and Tak were friends wither her....so it would be AKWARD to let her know of their relationship. Mitsuki ended up liking him after she got to know him and JUST cuz she is her friend and she liked him first does not mean bullshit, just means Mitsuki is a loyal friend. They both are very fond of each other, why NOT give each other a chance, it COULD have happend like this:
*5 Years later*
<doctor> she's dead...
or she could be asleep for 50 years, I don't know about you guys, but if ANY of you were put in a similar curcumstance (excluding if you were married to the person in the hospital, that is a TOTALLY different situation there....) I bet NONE of you would stick with that person.
*End of Statement*
Do you really have the game, or did you just download the CGs?
If you do have the game, did you comprehend the story?
As tem said, she did that out of her feelings for Takayuki.
If you played the game, you'll notice that it was Takayuki who instigated all of the "kinky" sex. She's weak against Takayuki's advances, yes. That I admit.
You also have to consider that they're an adult couple with needs, and they're already in the stage of relationship where sex happens more frequently.
From what I could understand, yes I know she did it out of feelings, as for the story I did comprehend just fine. But still I yet to meet a girl who will let me done all the kinds of things to her :) hehehe :D
Key Board
2003-11-14, 01:32
You know... upon reflection, the only thing that I would consider to be kinky was the:
**spoiler start // outdoor sex scene //spoiler end **
Everything else is conventional, and should be common among a lot of couples.
So yeah, they're quite normal.
Unless of course, you're referring to the extra bad endings added for the DVD version. I have no knowledge of that. But I could imagine why they could be disturbing since...
**spoiler start // Takayuki has broken down Mitsuki's psyche at that point. //spoiler end **
Shenlong
2003-11-14, 01:44
lol This thread clearly shows that women are vicious emotional creatures :D I'll look at the situation from a guy's perspective.
* Takayuki and Mitsuki were clearly interested in eachother long before Haruka confessed her feelings but neither had the courage to say anything.
* Takyuki is an indecisive wuss. To me it seems like he went out with Haruka just because she was Mitsuki's friend. Its clear that at first he has little interest in Haruka at first but eventually realizes her sweet personality. In his guy mind :
cuteness + kind personality + she has the hots for me = go for it tiger.. since I don't have any other prospects.. cus I'm too much of a pussbag to man up and confess to the girl I really like
* Mitsuki is also wuss, she can hardly admitt that she has feelings to herself, nevermind express them outloud, so she tries to be the good friend and pretty much forces the two together. But of couse being a women she just can't quite let it go.. can't bury her feelings.. her precious...
* Haruka is just clueless.. good thing she isn't a blonde or the feminists would really get angry :D
ducks fly objects
* The accident - the argument that Mitsuki is comehow responsible for it is crap and irresponsible since you are shifting blame from the real culprit (the idiot driver). lol Using such "logic" I could argue that the serb terrorist who assasinated the Archduke of Austria-Hungary is responsible for WW2 and shift responsibility away from Hitler :rolleyes: There was no malice in Mitsuki's action so I find it difficult to blame her.
* Some may wonder why Takayuki became so depressed after the accident.. they only went out for a few weeks. IMO this was the first serious relationship he has been in and despite what girls may think, the first time really is special and its not uncommon to become very attached or even fixated..
* A year sounds about the right length of time to remain attached to your first but evenbtually life does move on. Yakayuki's pathetic state finally unleashed Mitsuki to do what her heart wanted all along (probably triggered her maternal and nurturing instinct as well lol) and nurse the poor sod back to life. I'm sorry but the Knight in Shining Armor who is loytal enough to wait for you forever only happens in fairy tales, sorry to disappoint the Haruka fans but tis real life. Your girl is out of action and her damaged boyfriend either need a good slapping or some ass to get him out of the funk and back functioning in society. His obsession is unhealthy
* In the end I can't really blame anyone. Haruka is a just dim and out of touch with the world around her, Mitsuki is a confused woman and Takayuki is a vacillating boob.
EDIT : I'm looking at the CGs atm and I don't see anything sexual position that is out of the ordinary between experienced partners..
lamort_noir
2003-11-14, 02:19
*sigh*
Well at least I can kinda understand this post. I do see improvement.
How am I making you out to be the bad guy by pointing out your behavior? You did that on your own. I wasn't making up anything, the proof is all in your own posts.
As for what you said, if you actually, read and understood my inital post I stated that I put a lot of responsibility on Takayuki. I also stated in there about it not being fair about people giving Mitsuki all of the blame. Then I mentioned somewhere about it taking TWO to tango, I never said one. Which in fact means, that I never fully blamed Takayuki solely. In some situations I solely blamed Takayuki, because it was nothing but free will and choice. For example, even though he was late for his dates he set aside his responsibilities and tended more to Mitsuki than his own girlfriend. That was a choice he made. Even though Mitsuki made the offer, he didn't have to take it. What's that saying, you can take a horse to a lake, but you can't force him to drink the water? That refers to free will. Takayuki had that, so he's not just the victim of circumstance only.
It was just your oh so exceptionally sharp reading abilities and comprehension skills that led you to believe the opposite. So I guess when I put it in a manner that was easiest for you to understand then you claim that I somehow understood your point when I retyped it. Whatever man.
Also, I believe there was this whole post where GTUB, I believe I could be wrong, had expressed something about a big web of fate being to play. I don't know if I can fully believe that. I mean sure, there are things set, like you are fated to die or you fated to go to the bathroom every so often, but other than that I believe it's your own actions many of the time that seal your fate, or maybe not fate so much as it is consequences.
Like for example, I'm walking down a street, with my headphones not paying attention, and then I cross the street at a green light. Which results in me getting hit by a car and dying. Was it fate that I was hit by that car and died? Or was it a consequence of my actions? What if I had only been paying attention to what I was doing and saw that the light was green and waited for it to turn red, which would've meant that I avoided the speeding car? Did I then avert fate?
You know what i have to jump on this for the sake of this so called "flame war"
First of all your contradicting yourself saying his free will makes him guilty but clearly to you mitsuke is just has a chain on her neck telling her exactly what to do all the time and for your sarcasm i dont appreciate it and all it does is show how low your trying throw your punches to try to make your point might i add INCORRECT POINT! lol god if only debates were like this in a Presidential war lol Makes me happy to be able to fight about anime gets my blood boiling oh btw your comment like i said before about my comprehension skills that wasnt much coming from you =P
Now I'm interested -- just what are those two into? We know about the floor-sex -- pretty mild stuff.
Shenlong
2003-11-14, 02:27
<Possible inappropriate content kiddies beware>
mod please delete if this is inappropriate for this forum
I'm not sure if I have the complete set but I see missionary, rear entry standing in the shower, doggy style, woman on top, woman on top facing away, fellatio, and Johnny Come Quickly(I suppose this is the lurid outdoor one?)
Don't let the names throw you, none of these are uncommon between more experienced partners.
LOL, not that bad then. As long as they're not doing anything that requires the aid of special-order equipment.
I really doubt the anime is going to go beyond the floor-drilling. In fact, this show has been positively straight-laced -- no fanservice whatsoever, but lots of sex. Damned ironic.
Key Board
2003-11-14, 03:12
Yeah, that's the complete CG set for the CD version.
Not sure about the DVD version, though.
But if you want disturbing scenes there's always Manami's scenes (green haired nurse ) or Hotaru's ( the jail bait nurse )
LOL. I have this image of Takayuki comming home, Mitsuki is there in the apron making food. Then he smiles and pulls out a length of rope, a meat thermostat, a long set of cooking tongs and a box of birthday candles. He says: "I've been having doubts about our relationship, so..."
Hahaha, now that'd be ...interesting(?)... to say the least.
Meh, if they're having the sort of sex Shenlong said, I'm wondering what kind of sex you think is normal Firebat? :heh: Uhh, don't answer that. Nevermind.
And here I was thinking they were having the kinky sex that GUTB described. :D
Although the anime has been following the story of the game, this is not the game, and this is not any H anime either...
I have said it before. Tho I know many people pick up the game after watching the anime, essentially the game still has to have all these kinky stuff so as to satisfy the gamer's sexual fantasy. Why else do you want to play a H game in the first place? I still think that what is in the game may not necessary apply to the anime series. :heh:
outlaw55
2003-11-14, 11:20
Game is just like pokemon, "Gotta get em' all"
LOL
The game more than likely follows the same storyline Tboz, except you would choose in the end. Only real difference would be the sex is not "TVized"
Hmm... maybe I will try out the game after the series is completed. By then, the game won't be able to spoil me with its 17 endings. :heh:
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