View Full Version : Licensed El Cazador
http://content.imagesocket.com/thumbs/el_cazador_139f.jpg (http://imagesocket.com/view/el_cazador_139f.jpg)
Production Company: Bee Train (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/company.php?id=264)
Genre: Action-Heroine who isn't a drama queen!
Expected Release Date: April 2007
Website: http://www.elcazador.tv/
It's a Bee Train production. Some anime fans squirm at the mention of Bee Train and for a good reason too. Their resume read that most of their work are to do "in between animation" which, ironically, also reflects the quality of the series they have produced. Those series are also in between good-&-bad quality wise. Thankfully, I'm also one of those fans who actually likes Bee Train. Madlax happens to be one of my favorite series. Arc the Lad wasn't bad either. Hence, I'm looking forward to this upcoming series by them.
The director for the show is going to be Mashimo Koichi (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=372) who also directed Madlax and Noir which are also Bee Train production. Music, series composition, and character design will be done by Kajiura Yuki (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=3914), Kanemaki Kenichi (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=358) and Kikuchi Yoko (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=345) in respect. I'm hoping Lunar and Anbu will pick this series up as a joint venture. Their translation/editing job was so wonderful for Madlax that I still have the subs for it.
There is a short synopsis posted in Toua's blog (http://www.moedosed.com/2007/01/06/?noir?-?-?madlax?-?-?el-cazador?-site-news/) which was apparently translated by Sylf. I'm guessing he is the same Sylf from Froth-Bite.
It’s about a girl named Elis, who finds herself on the run from the so called Hunters of the underground society due to being a suspect of a murder. She meets up with a bounty hunter named Nadi who offers her help and guidance to pursue the truth of her past. For some reason the Hunters are now after her as well.
A 2nd version of the synopsis is translated by Toua in this post (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=809405&postcount=26):
In the underground world, an enourmous reward was placed on the head of a girl named Ellis who's a suspect of murdering a physicist Heinz Schneider.
Coincidentally, Ellis is saved from other bounty hunters by a bounty hunter named Nadi who finds her in a country town in Mexico. She escapes southwards after learning the truth of the matter. She expects to find a place there called Hometown where she was supposedly born. Ellis is convinced that if she goes there she can figure out her unknown past. Her only leads through her fate are the Inca rose gemstone and a mysterious word Uinyaimarka (ウイニャイマルカ - not sure how to transliterate). Nadi volunteers to become her guide even though she was originally chasing her.
Thus the journey of a girl with a prize on her head and a strange bounty hunter will begin.
Looking forward to it! Btw, the website has nothing on it yet, not even a picture! :p
edit: stole picture from Sonhex who beat Martanime fair and square by an entire 3-minute margin, and added Yuki-san's name!
edit 2: Added another version of synopsis, mighty thanks to Toua for the effort!
Copy Ninja Kakashi
2007-01-08, 14:50
whoo goods news hopefully Yuki will do the music ;)
Isn't she confirmed as doing the music? Couple of pics of Nadi (who seems like a hybrid of Madlax and Layla)...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/sonhex/el_cazador-2.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/sonhex/el_cazador-1.jpg
Well I enjoyed Madlax (well up until they killed off my two favourite characters) and Noir is classic. This one seems to be Western themed?
MartAnimE
2007-01-08, 15:15
Here are some pics:
http://moonphase.web.infoseek.co.jp/commonCG/20070106b.jpg
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/7707/011dz3jc6.th.jpg (http://img63.imageshack.us/my.php?image=011dz3jc6.jpg)
edit: lol Sonhex got the pics first! :heh: I think Ellis looks like a mix between Kirika and Mireille from Noir and Nadi looks like a mix between Madlax and Margaret from Madlax actually! Oh and if you bring in Avenger to it too, then Ellis has a bit of Nei in it too and Nadi a bit of Layla Ashley! :)
Lol, but you got the full version of the second pic!:p Hmm...Ellis does look a bit like an older Nei though, minus the disimilar eye colour.
MrProphet
2007-01-08, 19:06
The problem with BeeTrain is not with animation, which is usually passable, but with the fact that most of their stories are BORING.
I am somewhat tired of relying on the ever-present Yuki Kajiura for the source of excitement about Koichi Mashimo's shows. Because frankly, there is scant else to be excited about. The short synopsis above sounds like Noir-meets-Madlax, and that's not a good thing.
NoSanninWa
2007-01-08, 19:12
I disagree with your assessment of problem with Bee Train. I like Bee Train's animation and their stories. The problem is that it is the same darn story again and again and again! They change the characters and the setting, but the story is always the same.
It is the quest for identity in a video game, or the quest for identity as an assassin, or... you get the idea. And the answer to that quest is always the same even though the querent keeps changing.
It was a good story the first few times, but it is getting really stale by the time they reached Madlax. I really want to see something different from them.
MrProphet
2007-01-08, 19:42
OK, that too, but I was not excited by BeeTrain's story from the start. Noir was already repetitive and completely devoid of any plot in its middle and was their start...
I did, though, watch Noir and .hack with some interest when they came out because quite frankly, See-Saw and ALI Project were a novelty in those days, so it was exciting because nothing like "Canta per me" or "The Key of the Twilight" were ever heard before. In addition to that, .hack used to have Yoshiyuki Sadamoto's character designs, which were another plus.
By the time of Avenger and Madlax, Kajiura's novelty has worn off and the old story simply did not have any new redeeming elements that were worth sticking around for. And Tsubasa... ugh... let us just say that it was beyond even a distant possibility for me to enjoy it.
El Cazador does seem to have appealing character designs (just basing that off the images above, though), so maybe... maybe. As usual, I will watch one or two episodes to make sure I am not missing something and that will be my watershed.
aardvark
2007-01-08, 20:03
As was already pointed out, the problem with Bee-Train is present in almost all their shows. Beyond the constant rehashing of material for their shows, and the dependance on kajiura's music to actually make a scene stand out, we have:
- The absolutely flat, drab, boring, and lifeless color pallette, all their shows look the same. The animation itself is sometimes decent, but really hampered by that problem. Tsubasa Chronicles and .hack//roots were just downright too ugly for me to even watch. Even brightly compositioned scenes look drab and ugly. It's unbelievable.
-Awful pacing. While I don't mind a slowly paced show, the problem with Mashimo's shows is nothing happens, literally and at the same time the pacing doesn't take that into consideration.
The designs are nice as usual, and I usually always want to give a fair chance when watching something, but Koichi Mashimo's track record for the past 6 years makes it nearly impossible for me to even bother with his material anymore (Avenger particularly is one of the worst series I've ever seen, period). I'm sure many will enjoy El Cazador, but I don't think I'll fall for it anymore.
Because many will enjoy it, and many do enjoy Bee Train shows (+ Kajiura Yuki), I don't see the rehashing of material as such a global problem as the last four posts tried to present it as. Bee Train carries on a style of story telling, music, and directing, and there's nothing wrong with that, as I'm sure they know full well that with this they're creating the ever loyal fan and turning some people against them. But because the former outweigh the latter, I'm positive they're going to stick with this formula as long as they possibly can. And the formula isn't bad because the content or execution would be bad, but because it's repetitive. First time watchers will most likely enjoy any Bee Train series you throw at them simply because the formula works. And first time watchers are usually the most unbiased, albeit less informed.
Personally, if I ever become bitter and oversharp my taste in anime, I want to be put out of my misery. :p
Nightengale
2007-01-08, 22:27
Well...BeeTrain has continually shown me that they love utilizing the same patterns over and over for their productions from the pacing (( which honestly, is acceptable at times...but it really drives one's patience nuts depending on the series )) and the tone used in their series. Pretty much the things stated above. To me, BeeTrain is okay in most respective issues, but I always feel that they can't connect a chemistry between the respective story-pace-athmosphere-character. I didn't like Tsubasa for that.
I'm a sucker for spaghetti Western so I'll give it a chance (( Wait...I always give everything a chance )) but we'll see how it works. From the general idea, it doesn't seem to look all generic WWW, so how the setting turns out should indicate the structure of the story.
The two series I've seen produced by Bee Train are Arc the Lad and Madlax, which are pretty different shows. I didn't see Noir, but as it was said a few times in the Madlax thread when the series was airing, if one has seen Madlax, then Noir is the reflection. So my problem with Bee Train isn't the repetitiveness since I haven't really experienced it. It's, rather, how both of these series I've watched built up a potential climax along the length of the series, and came short when the moment demanded for a good execution. That's the reason I thought Bee Train is stuck between good and bad quality which equates to an average series. Animation-wise, Bee Train is solid, and so is the music. I was also very fond of the dialogues in Madlax though most of the thanks belong to Anbu-Lunar. Hence, as much as I've liked Madlax, I think I can get myself entertained by another reflection.
P.S. Updated the opening post, thanks to Sonhex and MartAnime for those pictures.
The director for the show is going to be Mashimo Koichi (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=372) who also directed Madlax and Noir which are also Bee Train production.
I remember an article on newtype USA where he said that he wanted to do a kind of trilogy, Noir and Madlax being the first and second parts, and as a fan of those series I'm delighted that there will be a third series. Plus Yuki Kajiura doing music just adds my exciment.
Too bad that the 2005 posts were lost, I posted some speculations about the third series at the Madlax thread. That two year waiting time is almost over.
The website (http://www.elcazador.tv/) is now online, but no info just pretty art :p
Full title is El Cazador De La Bruja (Hunter of Witches?).
...
By the time of Avenger and Madlax, Kajiura's novelty has worn off and the old story simply did not have any new redeeming elements that were worth sticking around for. And Tsubasa... ugh... let us just say that it was beyond even a distant possibility for me to enjoy it...
I thought Madlax was the last decent work Kajiura did before she toddled off to Sunrise to rehash everything she'd done before. A return to form, we hope, is something to be excited about considering the fact she seems to shine when working with Bee Train.
MartAnimE
2007-01-09, 17:54
The website (http://www.elcazador.tv/) Full title is El Cazador De La Bruja (Hunter of Witches?).
"El Cazador De La Bruja" can be translated in english to "The Witch Hunter" (a singular Witch)
Well, I'll say one thing the stylization is a little different from what they normally produce. I guess I've never seen something so chipper in a character before. Which makes it seem mainstream to me. When you compare it with 'Noir' or 'Madlax', there is nothing chipper about either shows even if the characters are. But I'm curious to see what this show comes up with.
Well, at least the site is up. I guess they'll have characters art and details later.
Oh, and 'Avenger's composition was not done by 'Yuki Kajiura' it was 'Ali Project'. While they did most of the vocals, that music has no 'Kajiura' in it what so ever. Anyone could tell her work a mile away.
I have to agree on the 'Avenger' note. I guess most of 'Bee Train's work consists of "rehashings" of other characters. Oh well. I'm not complaining. We all know 'Noir' was one of a kind so, that it. I kind of like their work on their girls with gun. Because the amount of fanservice you get is minimal. They're not out to push that they're out to tell a story to get you in touch with the characters. No matter how well or bad it is. They do care about trying and that's what I respect them for. For what they do come up with I can't say I'd do any better. ;)
Fellini 8.5
2007-01-11, 23:53
A friend in Japan translated the Newtype/Animege article for me; you can find it over here (http://www.beetrainfan.org/forum/index.php/topic,257.msg3431.html#msg3431).
Too bad that the 2005 posts were lost, I posted some speculations about the third series at the Madlax thread. That two year waiting time is almost over.
I know what you mean. :) When I saw the news, my winter blahs turned totally around. I thought with all the other work they've been up to, they wouldn't have time for at least another year. But I guess they've grown a lot. Mashimo's certainly got his hands full.
A bit of Bee Train-y trivia: Spider Riders had most of the same creative team as MADLAX, including Kurode doing the writing (albiet adapting it from the Canadian books). It's rumored that Mashimo and Kurode argued a lot. :) If you skip the awful dub and watch the Japanese, it's really quite interesting for a kid's show. It's even funny in places, and I don't even understand the language! :p
For "El Cazador", the rumor is (from my friend in Japan, who talked to someone on the staff at Comiket) that the script was stalled and no progress was being made. Which means Kanemaki and Mashimo are probably butting heads as well. Heh. One way or another, though, I'm going to be clinging to every release like it's going to be the end of the world!
(BTW, Avenger really grew on me after the 2nd viewing. It's really a clever little experimental piece, and very much like an opera in a lot of ways.)
This is pretty good news. El Cazador will definitely be worth watching if Bee Train can make it into a fitting match for Noir and Madlax.
A friend in Japan translated the Newtype/Animege article for me; you can find it over here (http://www.beetrainfan.org/forum/index.php/topic,257.msg3431.html#msg3431).
I know what you mean. :) When I saw the news, my winter blahs turned totally around. I thought with all the other work they've been up to, they wouldn't have time for at least another year. But I guess they've grown a lot. Mashimo's certainly got his hands full.
A bit of Bee Train-y trivia: Spider Riders had most of the same creative team as MADLAX, including Kurode doing the writing (albiet adapting it from the Canadian books). It's rumored that Mashimo and Kurode argued a lot. :) If you skip the awful dub and watch the Japanese, it's really quite interesting for a kid's show. It's even funny in places, and I don't even understand the language! :p
For "El Cazador", the rumor is (from my friend in Japan, who talked to someone on the staff at Comiket) that the script was stalled and no progress was being made. Which means Kanemaki and Mashimo are probably butting heads as well. Heh. One way or another, though, I'm going to be clinging to every release like it's going to be the end of the world!
(BTW, Avenger really grew on me after the 2nd viewing. It's really a clever little experimental piece, and very much like an opera in a lot of ways.)
Hoo boy, I just hope it will live up to it's name. The best thing folks can do is not to expect it to be too much like 'Noir' or 'Madlax'. Do that and folks can be fine. But again it is hard to do that since you know who the creative team is. :D Heheh!
Yeah, I'll have to sit and watching 'Avenger' again. I bought the tin after sending it back the first time. Damn those packagers! It's a simple story but it has some establisment problems but again it was an experimental piece so...y'know. Everyone's got to try and make something of something...even if it turns out bad. It allows you to learn from your mistakes. And that is what I like about 'Bee Train'.
Y'know I never thought of 'Avenger' being like an opera. But then again with a title called 'Grand Guignol'? You may have something there. :)
Matt Soulblade
2007-01-17, 19:13
Whoa to see a Spanish title, its actually a little shocking for me :). If this gets near to what Madlax is, Ill be watching this.
BTW, the full name of this "El Cazador de la Bruja" is translated to The Hunter of the Witch, but they probably wanted it to mean The Witch Hunter
And I liked the designs too. Lets see lets see.
BTW, the full name of this "El Cazador de la Bruja" is translated to The Hunter of the Witch, but they probably wanted it to mean The Witch Hunter
And what is the difference between "the hunter of the witch" and "the witch hunter?" :heh:
LionsMane
2007-01-18, 00:49
I am actaully rather excited in a very curious way for this series. I really do enjoy a lot of Bee Train's work(including Noir and MADLAX) but I agree that there is a lot of similair patterns in their work. So we'll just have to see where the story and characters fall. I love the look of it though and I'll be happy if Kajiura does the music.
brightman
2007-01-18, 21:38
And what is the difference between "the hunter of the witch" and "the witch hunter?" :heh:
"Witch Hunter" implies that the hunter *might* be hunting more than one witch... But the title in Spanish specify singularity.
NoSanninWa
2007-01-19, 01:42
I see. That's interesting. The witch is singular, not the hunter.
MartAnimE
2007-01-21, 17:10
I see. That's interesting. The witch is singular, not the hunter.
The spanish title specifies that it's a singular male hunter, and hunting for a specific singular witch. Though, from the little I know from the plot so far, I believe the word "El Cazador" is supposed to represent the organization hunting down Ellis, the girl in the wanted poster, and supposedely, THE witch.
The official site (http://www.elcazador.tv/index.html) finally got an update with a more detailed story section. I've attempted to translate the story section on my own using my rather poor japanese skills and a few tools. Should be all right, I guess.
In the underground world, an enourmous reward was placed on the head of a girl named Ellis who's a suspect of murdering a physicist Heinz Schneider.
Coincidentally, Ellis gets saved from other bounty hunters by a bounty hunter named Nadi who finds her in a country town in Mexico. She escapes southwards after learning the truth of the matter. She expects to find a place there called Hometown where she was supposedly born. Ellis is convinced that if she goes there she can figure out her unknown past. Her only leads through her fate are the Inca rose gemstone and a mysterious word Wiñay Marka (ウイニャイマルカ - possible transliteration). Nadi volunteers to become her guide even though she was originally chasing her.
Thus the journey of a girl with a prize on her head and a strange bounty hunter will begin.
I think Bee Train enjoys torturing us with weird words and phrases. :heh:
Thank you for the translations.
and a mysterious word Uinyaimarka (ウイニャイマルカ - not sure how to transliterate).
If the "Uinyai" is transliterated as "Winay", after a little googling and seaching wikipedia I found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winay_Wayna
So this is somehow connected to the Incas? I can't wait!
No luck for the "マルカ" part. Marka? Maruka? Maluca?
Fellini 8.5
2007-01-23, 19:42
Thank you for the translations.
If the "Uinyai" is transliterated as "Winay", after a little googling and seaching wikipedia I found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winay_Wayna
So this is somehow connected to the Incas? I can't wait!
No luck for the "マルカ" part. Marka? Maruka? Maluca?
Great find! As for Incas, back in November, Yuki Kajiura blogged about visiting Peru and Machu Piccu. Here's an easy set of links (http://kineska.blogspot.com/2007/01/yuki-kajiura-did-go-to-peru-for.html).
So yeah, I figure there's gonna be Incas... :cool:
UPDATE: Found more... "Wiñay Marka" is a part of Lake Titicaca, which Yuki Kajiura also mentioned in her blog. It's hard to find any decent info via Google just yet, but as far as I can tell, it's the smaller part of the lake on the Bolivian side, and it might play a role in the legend of the the lake as a whole.
UPDATE 2: It means "Eternal City"
Great find! As for Incas, back in November, Yuki Kajiura blogged about visiting Peru and Machu Piccu. Here's an easy set of links (http://kineska.blogspot.com/2007/01/yuki-kajiura-did-go-to-peru-for.html).
So yeah, I figure there's gonna be Incas... :cool:
UPDATE: Found more... "Wiñay Marka" is a part of Lake Titicaca, which Yuki Kajiura also mentioned in her blog. It's hard to find any decent info via Google just yet, but as far as I can tell, it's the smaller part of the lake on the Bolivian side, and it might play a role in the legend of the the lake as a whole.
UPDATE 2: It means "Eternal City"
Thank you for the info and links. :) Now we know how to transliterate it (note to the fansubbers). I wonder how much the music will be inspired by South American music.
The first thing when the El Cazador's site loaded, I thought, "wooh, Madlax!". I'll probably watch it, but won't expect much from the plot itself...
I'm just really glad that Kajiura will be doing the music.
Slice of Life
2007-01-25, 08:37
Bee Train productions I've seen are .hack/SIGN, Noir, and Avenger. Surprisingly, the one I liked was the one that is the worst one according to public consensus: Avenger. It has something almost meditative due to its sloooooooooow pace. Noir doesn't work that way, maybe because all those battles with men in suits and the marksmanship of drunken Imperial Stormtroopers disrupt the mood. Probably also because it's too long. .hack/SIGN, uh, you probably have to play the game to like it.
I will give El Cazador a chance but only after four or five episodes are out. I will watch them in a row and see if the atmosphere works the same way on me like it did for Avenger.
physics223
2007-01-25, 13:52
The character design is sumptuous ... I don't expect much, however. *sigh*
And what is the difference between "the hunter of the witch" and "the witch hunter?" :heh:
Y'know this title reminds me of 'FF8'. Remember that whole "witch war" deal? Of course this story will be more put together. Not trying to knock 'FF8' mind you cause I did kind of like it. Just could have been better.
Damn, April is a long wait. Are we there yet? :p
Shinndou
2007-01-29, 19:01
Frankly said, I've never been a real fan of Bee Train, probably because I never managed to get used to the weird pacing that most of their shows have (Noir, Madlax), but I'm still willing to watch this (atleast the first episodes) since I generally do give a shot at anything. I just hope this show won't have a rollercoaster-like pacing like Madlax. :\
prince leon
2007-01-29, 20:35
This is one of the spring anime I'm looking forward to quite a lot, especially since it's a Bee Train production. :)
So far I'm loving the character designs I've seen.
moetron blog (http://www.moetron.com/2007/02/07/el-cazador-broadcast-date-oped/):
- Music -
* Opening Theme: “Hikari no Yukue” - savage genius
* Closing Theme: “romanesque” - FictionJunction YUUKA
- Seiyuu -
* Ellis: (Shimizu Ai)
* Nadi: (Itou Shizuka)
* Jodie Hayward: (Hisakawa Aya)
* Douglas Rosenberg: (Miyake Kenta)
* L.A: (Miyano Mamoru)
* Heinz Schneider: (Miki Shinichiro)
* Ricardo: (Tachiki Fumihiko)
Source: http://d.hatena.ne.jp/moonphase/20070207
[- Music -
* Opening Theme: “Hikari no Yukue” - savage genius
* Closing Theme: “romanesque” - FictionJunction YUUKA
Looks good.
* Jodie Hayward: (Hisakawa Aya)
Yay! She's in all three shows!
I was going to give this a miss because of BeeTrain which I'm not fond of...but guess I'll give it a shot since Aya Hisakawa, Miyano Mamoru and Miki Shinichiro are in it
Fellini 8.5
2007-02-08, 12:13
New official site pages are up, including character images:
http://www.elcazador.tv/character/character.html
Comedy, huh? :eyebrow:
Wow, so, apparently Ellis' secret is that witch's DNA run in her family? Interesting.
Comedy, huh? :eyebrow:
Oh, you mean the faces! Honestly, I'd love it if they allowed moments where we can just step back and laugh at the characters, without feeling like said moments were unintentionally self-parodic. *picks at bone*
And Toua, I'm sure she has yet other secrets, say, in their respective pasts. :D
And Toua, I'm sure she has yet other secrets, say, in their respective pasts.
Bee Train and characters with a past full of secrets? No way! :heh:
And the faces don't really hint to comedy to me. Not that I would mind a bit of comedy, not to mention it would be a natural progression considering Noir and Madlax.
A comic-ization of the bishoujo action anime El Cazador will start in May's issue of the seinen manga magazine Champion RED (http://comipedia.com/magazine/champion_red).
Yes, a seinen El Cazador manga will start in May 2007 :P
Fellini 8.5
2007-02-10, 15:15
Latest issue of NewType has more character designs:
http://www.beetrainfan.org/images/elcazador-thumbnail2.jpg (http://www.beetrainfan.org/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1215&g2_serialNumber=1)
Jodie, Hisakawa Aya's character looks like a bookworm, I suspect that in this case appearance deceives. :)
What's with Elu (or whatever he's called)? He looks like he just wandered off the set of Meine Liebe. :heh:
MartAnimE
2007-02-10, 21:22
What's with Elu (or whatever he's called)? He looks like he just wandered off the set of Meine Liebe. :heh:
He's called L.A. Must be some weird code name or something... And yeah, he definetely looks like he could belong in Meine Liebe! And he called my attention the most the moment I saw the pic! Must be the "Bee-Train token bishounen prize" after two girls-with-guns series of thousands of male bloodshed! :heh:
Latest issue of NewType has more character designs:
Eep, I like Ellis' character design!
A comic. Is this a first?
TougeSil80
2007-02-12, 06:21
The character designs doesn't look as good as Noir, but it still looks very good. I like Bee Train's anime, but I have to agree, this searching for the past thing is getting too repetitive, Bee Train should try some new story formats. But anyways, I'll still watch this tho, should be at least decent.
I like those characters desings too, like Noir and Madlax we have younger and older female main character (with some yuri vibes, I hope~).
I enjoyed both Noir and Madlax series, but the only thing I didn't like was that the main characters were too über-powerful, so I hope they fixed that. Of course they are heroines and all, but please Bee-Train, keep it in realistic level.
TougeSil80
2007-02-12, 15:56
I agree to some level, but they shouldn't de-tune the characters, just make stronger enemies. In later eps of Noir, the enemies are pretty strong, especially Chloe, I really enjoyed those fights. If we could have more of that in this series, that'll be cool.
MartAnimE
2007-02-21, 19:54
The official japanese site (http://www.elcazador.tv/) has been updated with more character's art on the character section!!! :)
Maids! Maids! Maids!
2007-02-21, 20:54
Here a couple of full-blown, high resolution scans of previously posted images.
http://img01.yourpix.org/thumbs/03.07/17/1174184720date33360.jpg (http://img01.yourpix.org/view/03.07/17/1174184720date33360.jpg)
3600x3355, 1.9 MB
http://img01.yourpix.org/thumbs/03.07/17/11741851511169965682023304125x2632.jpg (http://img01.yourpix.org/view/03.07/17/11741851511169965682023304125x2632.jpg)
4125 x 2632, 1.5 MB
QBnoYouko
2007-02-27, 22:39
I've been watching over the news for this for a while. Kajiura Yuki composing the music is gonna be a nice touch. Character designs and cast is probably what made me want to watch this too.
prince leon
2007-03-06, 11:50
El Cazador PV :)
http://www.jvcmusic.co.jp/m-serve/elcazador/asx/v-01106B.asx?elcazador
The music is amazing and the animation is lookin' good. :p
DangerMouse
2007-03-06, 15:25
Thank you so much for the trailer link! This might be my most anticipated upcoming show (if not Darker than Black) as I love Bee Train and Kajiura is my favorite composer (only a couple of other anime/game composers are even close) and I love the shows they do when they work together.
This series looks like it's going to be as awesome as I'm expecting as the third girls w/guns piece. I can already tell from the music and animation style that I'll be addicted to it.
The character designs are wonderful for Nadi and Ellis in the trailer, and the music is pure Kajiura awesomeness. I'm already hooked on Nadi's character before the show even starts. The cool design and I love the quirky personality she displayed in the trailer and the awesome last shot of her seriously pointing her gun. She looks to be another awesome cool action heroine from Bee Train! And while her type of character is always harder to judge from a trailer, and there wasn't quite as much of her, I always enjoy Ellis' type of character in Bee Train shows so I think she'll be great too.
That was quite nice. Music was classic Kajiura and all's present and correct by the looks of things although there's lots of Madlax-esque familiarity there I notice. Nadi looks like a step in the right direction though with her quirks and funny faces. The only thing that bugged me about Noir (and Madlax to a certain extent) was the overall lack of humour. So this is quite encouraging to see we may get some comedy here.
And er...is it just me or do the tails of Nadi's hair looks bit like a certain iconic heterochromic doll ~ desu.:p
The trailer gives the impression the series might be too light hearted for a Bee Train anime but it's hard to judge from something so short. The music gives me hope we will see the brilliant quality one expects from Kajiura, and as we know music is vital for the atmosphere of the slow paced Bee Train series.
For whatever it's worth, Mashimo did direct Irresponsible Captain Tylor, one of the most beloved comedy anime of the 90s (and possibly of all time).
Kazu-kun
2007-03-06, 23:15
And er...is it just me or do the tails of Nadi's hair looks bit like a certain iconic heterochromic doll ~ desu.:p
I think those tails are inspired by Chloe's design. The cape too.
DangerMouse
2007-03-07, 20:40
It's quite the awesome design.
As for it being too light, I'm not worried *yet*. A very tiny bit of quirkiness could be nice as long as it doesn't go to the point where the show is basically just another anime and no longer what I'd consider "the unique Bee Train Mashimo style" and it's exaggerated but gritty realism. I think think they know that serious action and serious plot is what makes their shows so awesome and unique (and Kajiura's music style really caters to this too) so I don't think they will venture too far where it loses it's "Noir/Madlax". Also, the last shot of her looking serious with the her gun out helps me think that that they won't go "too happy". Perhaps it's just a natural outgrowth of the slightly "brighter" more open wild west-ish setting since it seems to be more "outlaws" than stealthy "assasins"?
Looking good, looks very high-budget. This was what I was waiting for. The music, I'm glad it's something new from Kajiura and it sounds good as well. :)
WanderingKnight
2007-03-08, 18:31
Any information of Bee Train animating a new show makes me go WTF.
But add to that the fact that the title sound extremely stupid in Spanish (El Cazador de la Bruja = The Hunter of the Witch), and this is a show that makes me go o.O. But then again, I'm a sucker for WTF shows :heh:
NoSanninWa
2007-03-08, 18:50
The title isn't as bad as you think. Summaries of this anime seem to imply that there is one witch and one witch hunter.
WanderingKnight
2007-03-08, 19:01
The title isn't as bad as you think. Summaries of this anime seem to imply that there is one witch and one witch hunter.
It's not the thing about it being grammatically correct and correspondent to the plot, the thing is that if you publish a movie over my country (or almost any other Spanish-speaking country) with that title, chances are most people will get a laugh at it.
And, isn't the hunter a woman? If so, it'd have to be "La Cazadora" xP
Daniel E.
2007-03-08, 20:51
It's not the thing about it being grammatically correct and correspondent to the plot, the thing is that if you publish a movie over my country (or almost any other Spanish-speaking country) with that title, chances are most people will get a laugh at it.
And, isn't the hunter a woman? If so, it'd have to be "La Cazadora" xP
I kinda agree with you on this one. The title sounds like something pulled out of one of those horrible mexican wrestler movies from the 70's. :heh: :heh:
Though, I am still gonna give this show a chance. :)
BaronNoir
2007-03-16, 15:54
Trailer wise..it's me, or the ''old gal'' is spanked by the younger one ?
Fellini 8.5
2007-03-16, 17:26
Trailer wise..it's me, or the ''old gal'' is spanked by the younger one ?
If you look carefully, no. The reaction shot seems to be stitched on to the buttslap.
You see, Mashimo is a big tease... :D
/couldn't resist...
Madlax happens to be one of my favorite series. Arc the Lad wasn't bad either. Hence, I'm looking forward to this upcoming series by them.
/hugs monir :D
moetron blog (http://www.moetron.com/2007/02/07/el-cazador-broadcast-date-oped/):
- Music -
* Opening Theme: “Hikari no Yukue” - savage genius
* Closing Theme: “romanesque” - FictionJunction YUUKA
perfect
is it me or ナディ (Nadi) looks like Aaeru from Simoun, which is a series that savage genius do OP/ED as well ?
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1246/witchhuntervu1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)http://www.mmv-i.net/game/ps2/simoun/images/character_01.jpg
this officially take over darker than black as my most anticipated upcoming show now. The trailer is very promising, look like Kajiura-sama didn't lose her magic touch yet . Noir has an European setting, Madlax is a jungle-ish/Battlefield Vietnam/Farcry-ish setting while this 3rd series gives a sense of Westerner/cowboy/Mexico-ish....,maybe...maybe Kajiura would be able to produce an "Ecstacy of Gold".. :)
WanderingKnight
2007-03-16, 19:26
^ Yeah, I also had a flashing thought of Aaeru from that pic, but it was because there was a specific moment when she was portrayed in a similar manner.
Oh, now I do see the resemblance. :D
So it seems that Kikuchi Youko (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=345)'s designs have evolved over time. They didn't used to have such round eyes. A few people have said that her characters have been lolified. The colours appear to be lighter? and bodies and faces may be rounder.
It's pretty apparent in the new illustration for the Noir remastered set, too. The eyes, that is, not the rest of it.
http://i16.tinypic.com/43x972x.gif
WanderingKnight
2007-03-17, 02:07
It's nice to see a change. At first I got sick of seeing the same faces all over .Hack/SIGN and Madlax. Seriously, I got flashbacks of Tsukasa all the time xD
ZODDGUTS
2007-03-17, 04:07
The problem with BeeTrain is not with animation, which is usually passable, but with the fact that most of their stories are BORING.
Yeah I agree. Koichi Mashimo work tend to be too slow paced and the long camera shots. I can't believe I made it past the first 9 episodes of Noir, first anime ever that nearly put me too sleep literally. It got better after ep 9 though.
Hopefully Koichi Mashimo doesn't overdue it with those long camera shots and the slow pace in this anime.
is it me or ナディ (Nadi) looks like Aaeru from Simoun, which is a series that savage genius do OP/ED as well ?
They do only the ED of Simoun actually. But there is a resemblance between Aeru and Nadi, true. The latter may turn out to be a lot more moe though, I hope I am wrong about that.
It's pretty apparent in the new illustration for the Noir remastered set, too.
Kirika looks almost scared with these big eyes, the change looks silly at least in that picture, IMO.
Storm-and-Fire
2007-03-20, 06:17
O_O
Mashimo will do this... This means we get no Tsubasa? Too bad...
Anyway, my little sis liked an image she found, so she goes like "Let's watch this, it's interesting". Then, I discover Kajiura-sama is doing music for this one. And I'm totally sold. XD Plus, the whole story with witches and witch hunters seems interesting.
New El Cazador trailer (http://www.jvcmusic.co.jp/m-serve/elcazador/asx/v-01135B.asx)
Youtube version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwmKtwAMyjg
Loved the bit where Nadi kicks the guy in the nuts then kicks him off screen :p
Deathkillz
2007-03-20, 17:04
cool...it looks like theres a "wild wild west" theme going on there :D girls with guys are always win...just look at revy O.o
Daniel E.
2007-03-20, 20:05
Hope the characters dont try and speak much spanish. When Roberta did it in Black Lagoon, she sounded, well.... bad. :p
I much rather hear everyone talk in japanese.
Wasn't there 2 new trailers released? This looks awesome! However, the first scene reminds me of Noir. :heh: I hope they go easy with the flashbacks this time.
DangerMouse
2007-03-21, 23:04
Youtube version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwmKtwAMyjg
Oh yes! There we go, looking perfect with excellent trailer music.
The clips of those Nadi action scenes were pure awesome in the tradition of Noir and Madlax, I love the style in which they are animating her (even if realistically some parts during the show itself might have to tone down the smoothness of her moves, though maybe not given the popularity of the trilogy, I love the style for itself regardless), looking forwards to it, and the first glimpse of Ellie's unique abilities too. I think I'm going to like both of them. It looks like even with slight dash of nice "non-obnoxious-stupid" humor they haven't lost sight of the serious and mysterious tone being the most important "environment" of Noir and Madlax. The bits of the story and support characters look very good and heavy and I love the somewhat modern but still old west type setting.
@trailer 2
seems like a fun anime XD, some comic relief here and there doesn't hurt :)
There's a little article in April's issue of 'Newtype USA'. They pretty much explain the same deal with some extra words from the creator - 'Kouichi Mashimo'.
Here is some of the info. on the main characters.
*Taken from NTUSA April 2007, vol. 7, no. 4:
The main characters.:
Ellis: Ellis possesses the genetically engineered "witch" DNA. She's currently wanted for the murder of Dr. Heinz Schneider.
Nadie: This lively bounty hunter seems like the poster child for the 'Don't worry be happy" approach to life, but her cheery optimism belies a dark past - she's the only survivor of a terrible massacre in her hometown. Her favorite weapon is a old .45-caliber Colt Government pistol.
The third feature in the trilogy of girls and guns.
STORY:
Wanted for murder, 'Ellis is on the run with a hefty price on her head in underground circles. Lucky for her, an encounter with a bounty hunter named 'Nadie' sets them both on the lam, and the two end up travelling together. 'Nadie', plays tour guide as 'Ellis' searches for answers to the mysteries of her forgotten past.
[KM] "During an inteview, I accidently blurted out something about [Noir and Madlax being part of] a 'trilogy', which forced me to follow through and actually make a thrid installment!" When I told [Victor Entertainment producer Shigeru] Kitayama about it, he suggested a suspense-filled chase story.
I said I wanted to do something more like a witch hunt, and from there we gathered ideas from the staff and hashed out the rest of the basic setup - the world, th emood and the feel of the characters." [KM]
[NTUSA] The "witch hunt" that the director is thinking of here isn't the usual simplistic story of an unjustly accused woman standing up to persecution. Main character 'Ellis' is branded a "witch," but all that means in the context of this story is that she's different from normal people - she's got something called "witch DNA". As 'Mashimo' puts it, [NTUSA]
[KM] "the word 'witch' is being used as a symbol of unorthodoxy. It refers to a so-called 'heretic', but my 'witches' are pure and innocent. Like Noir and Madlax, 'El Cazador is just a tale of ordinary girls coming of age in a somewhat less than-ordinary set of circumstances. This time though, I'm emphasizing it more than ever.
Personality-wise, Ellis is quiet and subdued, while her travelling companion Nadie is vibrant and energetic. At first glance they seem like complete opposites, but both girls feel empty inside, their hearts bruised and scarred.
'Ellis' and 'Nadie' interact with the people around them in different ways, but they're both quite fragile deep down.
What I want is for the audience to be able to identify with their struggle against the adults of the criminal underworld who wheel and deal at the girls' expense." [KM]
[NTUSA:] In keeping with the Latin American setting, 'El Cazador' has a lighter more positive feel than it's ultra serious sisters, although it still deal with some fairly weighty topics. [NTUSA]
[KM] "Weve tried a lot of new things and took on many new challenges in order to fine-tune the characters and the overall mood of the show. Everyone on the staff wants this one to be a worthy final chapter in the 'trilogy', and we're giving it our all." [KM]
Will, 'El Cazador' be a worthy holding it's own, or will some consider it a rehash, taking old ideas from it's predecessors?
I hadn't been on in a while because I hadn't really had much more to say about the show. The one thing that bugged me was the new "shiny-eyed" style. After watching 'My-Otome', and dealing with 'Arika's cheeriness, looking at 'Nadie' bugged me. As this series has a very different look to it compared to 'Noir' and 'Madlax'. And as you know this is the very thing that drives viewers away. They feel if a new show doesn't live up to the very first then, why bother? Hell, I've even asked people if they had seen 'Madlax' because they saw 'Noir'. And of course they didn't want to touch 'Madlax' because 'Noir' was IT.
I watched 'Madlax' because of 'Noir'. Yet I finished 'Madlax' on time, and 'Noir' some 5 years later after getting past the infamous "popcorn" shootout". So I love them both just as much. They were just the medicine I was looking for and needed. 'Noir' more so. Which is why I finally purchased it and will be getting 'Madlax' later.
But as one poster pointed out that the same artist is involved. After reading the article, So I had a slight change of heart about the show. This could now explain why the characters seem so "bright-eyed" and "bushy-tailed". Younger characters and a much more lighter approach than the likes of 'Noir' and 'Madlax'.
In a way it's like the little "sister" that while not being as edgy as it's sisters it still finds it's place. Learning from the best and proving that it has the "stuff" to stand alongside them.
So I think this should be fun. Since the first 2 were dark, time for a reprieve. If you're a true 'Noir' fan and you like 'Bee Train's successors, then 'El Cazador' should be worth watching as well.
Me also thinks 'El Cazador' could be an introduction piece toward Noir' and 'Madlax'. :hmm:
Maids! Maids! Maids!
2007-03-26, 18:45
I forgot I had this.
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3555/date36144ej4.th.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=date36144ej4.jpg)
WanderingKnight
2007-03-26, 21:27
"During an inteview, I accidently blurted out something about [Noir and Madlax being part of] a 'trilogy', which forced me to follow through and actually make a thrid installment!" When I told [Victor Entertainment producer Shigeru] Kitayama about it, he suggested a suspense-filled chase story.
I said I wanted to do something more like a witch hunt, and from there we gathered ideas from the staff and hashed out the rest of the basic setup - the world, the mood and the feel of the characters."
So, not only he intends to retell the whole story again, but he also throws overboard the only justification that could have saved his uncreative ass? :heh:
I'm losing interest after finding out it's going to be more of the same. Might catch it occasionally, though.
But as one poster pointed out that the same artist is involved. After reading the article, So I had a slight change of heart about the show. This could now explain why the characters seem so "bright-eyed" and "bushy-tailed". Younger characters and a much more lighter approach than the likes of 'Noir' and 'Madlax'.
How can they be younger when the girls in Madlax are 17? I mean, it's anime but still a 14 year old bounty hunter would be something a bit extraordinary. :)
[KM] "the word 'witch' is being used as a symbol of unorthodoxy. It refers to a so-called 'heretic', but my 'witches' are pure and innocent.
Just don't make them too moe, please. :) Or too innocent.
Interesting interview, thanks for posting it.
WanderingKnight
2007-03-26, 21:35
How can they be younger when the girls in Madlax are 17?
The problem is that Madlax acts like she's freaking 27. Until the series actually tells you, you're bound to stay in ignorance.
Well, I'd rather have a 17 year old girl act like she is 27 (not that I really see that in Madlax) than the usual anime routine of 17 year old girls behaving like 7 years old in order to be "cute".
How can they be younger when the girls in Madlax are 17? I mean, it's anime but still a 14 year old bounty hunter would be something a bit extraordinary. :)
Hey, I don't really know how old they are. It's not like it's listed anywhere. Can someone give us an age? But more than likely I wasnt' thinking that young. But hey if you're talking about 14 year old bounty hunters then, 'Kirika' and 'Chloe' would have been excellent candidates. Since they were killing earlier than 14.
Just don't make them too moe, please. :) Or too innocent.
Interesting interview, thanks for posting it.
Hahaha! I think that's what they were going for. Hahaha! I just wasn't sure I wanted to say it.
No problem. I didn't mind. I just finished reading the mag cover to cover (I do this for work and personal reasons). It was a short article and I only needed to post the important stuff which wasn't much.
But yeah, 'Mashimo' did mention this awhile back. I read this also in an issue of 'Newtype USA', about a year ago. They were reviewing 'Madlax' (I think by this time fans had finished the series and it was on the verge of being licensed) and 'Mashimo' just blurts out that he was already planning on making another girls and gun flick. I guess after 'Madlax's excitement he was fired up. Yeah, figthing in hot-pants and cocktail dresses does that to guy. But at that time it would be a good while later that we would hear about it. Thus, 'El Cazador' was born. Bringing back the "family". The studio, the girls, the guns and of course 'Yuki Kajiura'. Also, if you're wondering why 'Yuki' always ends up doing their scores it's because they chose her. They have a really close working relationship with her. Which is one reason why she's constantly involved with their projects.
But after I heard about this I was like wow, I'll be there for it. Then I see the designs and I'm like, WTF? What happened to the "regular" eyes? So who knows where this series is going? April is almost around the corner. Since it's airing in April maybe it's a cruel joke. Right? Or maybe it'll be part comedy too. NOT! Oh well, just have to wait and see what happens.
Just hope I'll get the chance to see the first episode before I go away on vacation next week.
*Oh I forgot to mention that yeah, she does remind you of 'Aeru'. But at least she ain't running around hyped up on pixie sticks like 'Arika'.
BaronNoir
2007-03-29, 10:49
It's a 13 or a 26 episodes ?
Honestly, I think that a bit of comedy could make the serie more ''mainstream''"..
Dumb question, but this is my very first anime serie that I will try to watch close to the airing date. Usually, how much time it take to an episode to be subbed...
DangerMouse
2007-03-29, 16:35
It's a 13 or a 26 episodes ?
Honestly, I think that a bit of comedy could make the serie more ''mainstream''"..
Dumb question, but this is my very first anime serie that I will try to watch close to the airing date. Usually, how much time it take to an episode to be subbed...
I'm pretty sure it's going to be 26 and be getting their top staff and be their major focus while making it like Noir and Madlax. I'm so glad Kajiura's back to do another awesome girls w/guns score. I'm will definitely be addicted to this show...so it better get subbed lol.
Well, here we are. April 2nd. So when does the first episode air?
I can't wait to check this out. I had a dream about it. Errr... so I'm kind of hyped to see what we got instore.
Fellini 8.5
2007-04-02, 11:27
So when does the first episode air?
In about 3 minutes... :D
In about 3 minutes... :D
Whoo hoo!! I guess I'll try and catch the raws when they come out and do the subs later. I just want to see it.
Considering the amount of time it took to answer it's probably done now.
Thanks. :)
A few screens from ep 1 for those who can't wait or for the curious (like me). Lots of familiarity for veterans of both Noir and Madlax (again like me), which is encouraging:
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/653/elcazador01xt7.th.jpg (http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elcazador01xt7.jpg)
Episode 01 just lay down the path for this story, so we can't really say or speculate that much for now. We know that Ellis has a bounty on her head, and she was found and taken care of by an old witch lady until she meets Nadi, a bounty hunter who's quite skillful with the gun. The old witch lady speaks to Nadi, tells her that her future will be full of events from that day on, also she entrusts her with Ellis. After the other bounty hunters lure Ellis into a trap by blowing up grandma's house, Ellis may have revealed an extraordinary skill of her own. She's a fairly athletic girl but her face and body language always look very passive.
Anyway, when grandma's dying in the blown up house, she gives Ellis the Inca rose gemstone and tells her it'll be her guide southwards towards Winay Marka, the place of eternity. After that they steal a car from two ayashii bounty hunters and set off.
What really stood out in episode 01 was the very easygoing atmosphere which can most certainly be identified with the more southern countries of Americas and Europe. Siesta and all of that. :)
The music... oh god. I don't think I ever heard a soundtrack match so perfectly to what was happening. And the magnitude of details some tracks had, especially the one right after the OP was just astounding. The guitars, trumpets and perhaps melodicas? Kajiura's trip to South Americas really paid off, I think.
What was somewhat disappointing was the animation which wasn't as fluid I've expected, still I'm used to Bee Train and their habit to use better animation at the weirdest spots. For example in this one, eye shifting. Kind of funny.
Raw is out, time to check the other most waited series. ;)
Episode 01 just lay down the path for this story, so we can't really say or speculate that much for now. We know that Ellis has a bounty on her head, and she was found and taken care of by an old witch lady until she meets Nadi, a bounty hunter who's quite skillful with the gun. The old witch lady speaks to Nadi, tells her that her future will be full of events from that day on, also she entrusts her with Ellis. After the other bounty hunters lure Ellis into a trap by blowing up grandma's house, Ellis may have revealed an extraordinary skill of her own. She's a fairly athletic girl but her face and body language always look very passive.
Anyway, when grandma's dying in the blown up house, she gives Ellis the Inca rose gemstone and tells her it'll be her guide southwards towards Winay Marka, the place of eternity. After that they steal a car from two ayashii bounty hunters and set off.
What really stood out in episode 01 was the very easygoing atmosphere which can most certainly be identified with the more southern countries of Americas and Europe. Siesta and all of that. :)
The music... oh god. I don't think I ever heard a soundtrack match so perfectly to what was happening. And the magnitude of details some tracks had, especially the one right after the OP was just astounding. The guitars, trumpets and perhaps melodicas? Kajiura's trip to South Americas really paid off, I think.
What was somewhat disappointing was the animation which wasn't as fluid I've expected, still I'm used to Bee Train and their habit to use better animation at the weirdest spots. For example in this one, eye shifting. Kind of funny.
Yeah, pretty much sums it up. Music was really well done... everything else was pretty run of the mill. Nothing to really complain about overly much, but nothing exactly compelling either. *shrug*
Shadow Angel
2007-04-02, 17:37
More screens and what appears to be a manga scans can be found here.
http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/Dark-dusk/Bruja/
so i'm to understand from that interview that this is the third instalmment of the female assassins trilogy that Kouichi Mashimo has eluded to on numerous occasions?
awesome! no matter how many haters, i still love Noir and Madlax. and if it's the same story, it's okay because it's a thematic trilogy. thematic trilogies are typically multi-faceted explorations of common themes and structures.
i'm sure it will be wrought with repetitous flashbacks and repetitious frames. but so what. the action should be good. and Kouichi says it is more of a chase/suspence, which should solve some of the pacing problems that were apparent in Madlax.
i will watch ep 1 later.
EDIT: couldn't wait. just watched the OP. it is definitely the third part. the OP animation is even similar. the designs are similar (do i see Vanessa Rene? ... no no, that's someone else who just happens to look like Vanessa...).
so if i understand this right, Noir was French-Francophone themed, Madlax was more Slavic themed (based on character and place names), and this will be more Latin themed ... am i right? wrong?
SO I WANT TO START A BET RIGHT NOW. we might not be able to make this official until ep 3 or 4, but still... i want to know what two characters you all think will end up in an implied lesbian relationship by the end of the series. in Noir it was obviously Kirika and Mireille. In Madlax it was Madlax and Limelda. Now who will it be??
DangerMouse
2007-04-02, 18:08
Sounds like just what I was hoping for, now someone needs to sub it ;)
I'm so going to watch the RAW even just to hear the awesome Kajiura music and whatever I can follow from the visuals, great to hear that she's scored episode 1 so well :) She's definitely one of my favorites for a reason :)
ZOMG
MUST ...
HAVE ...
OST ...
ungghhh......
seriously, i love the ED a lot!!
i have a question for those who watched itthe two assassins who were driving the jeep and got stopped by the cops... the same two who were at the church when the girls stay their jeep... are those women? or...? the seiyus left me with some questions...... i'm sure it's just me being confused as usual, but stilll........
chupacabra
2007-04-02, 18:52
the two assassins who were driving the jeep and got stopped by the cops... the same two who were at the church when the girls stay their jeep... are those women? or...? the seiyus left me with some questions...... i'm sure it's just me being confused as usual, but stilll........
They were what we call in my country "trasvesti" guy's who dresses as women but they aren't
Fanboyish rave - Mashimo still kicks ass! And Kajiura too.
Maxwell's demon? Breaking the law of thermodynamics? I thought this was a lighthearted show. :heh:
SO I WANT TO START A BET RIGHT NOW. we might not be able to make this official until ep 3 or 4, but still... i want to know what two characters you all think will end up in an implied lesbian relationship by the end of the series. in Noir it was obviously Kirika and Mireille. In Madlax it was Madlax and Limelda. Now who will it be??
Don't forget Vanessa and Madlax. :) This time I am betting for Ellis and Nadi.
DangerMouse
2007-04-02, 19:31
They were what we call in my country "trasvesti" guy's who dresses as women but they aren't
Yeah, I have no idea what they were saying but the voices and the way they spoke gave it away heh.
While a lot of the episode was slow paced and focused on dialogue and I assume setup (since I'm an extreme beginner at Japanese and can't tell), I liked the action there was, I thought Nadi's moves were quite well animated, especially all of her kicks smooth and well conveyed on impact. But in general I agree it is too early to judge the level of animation we'll get as there wasn't really a big action showpiece yet requiring a lot of movement. But the physical moves were pretty smooth and there were often little extra movement details (the eyes for example as usual with a Beetrain show, though a lot less face pans than usual) which was nice and I liked the overall feel of the animation, it felt nice and coherent and not cheap.
I didn't expect Ellis to have such an array of powers in addition to just physical abilities, I like it, it makes the importance placed on her a lot more believable right from the start while they reveal the details.
Now seeing how it looks, I'm even more confident that I like the character designs, I really like visual aspect of the show's design. And it goes almost without saying that Kajiura seems to have done it again, I'm also counting down the days until we get an OST ;) The main theme that played towards the end worked wonderfully in the episode (as it did in the trailer) and I really like just about all of the other main music, that early song with the harmonica was very nice in setting the stage (almost like a Kanno song if I have to compare it to something), Kajiura also impressed with the more subdued background music that really fit the setting and was nicely not overpowering.
Fanboyish rave - Mashimo still kicks ass! And Kajiura too.
Maxwell's demon? Breaking the law of thermodynamics? I thought this was a lighthearted show. :heh:
Don't forget Vanessa and Madlax. :) This time I am betting for Ellis and Nadi.
I knew Mashimo wouldn't let us down with not having it be a dark themed show even with a little more "character" :)
mintyfresh
2007-04-02, 20:19
Mmm.. I think I made the deathly mistake of reading the first chapter of the manga before watching the first episode of this show.
The two would almost be identical were it not for the fact that the manga doesn't seem to shy away from violence and blood (something BeeTrain is known for doing. Though I did find it amusing to see Ellis's captor get kicked in the groin by Nadie, instead of getting his arm shot off), nor does it shy away from the fanservice.
Of course I'll still follow the anime, and maybe check the manga every now and then to see what pantyshots (something I'm certainly no great fan of) were left out.
At this point of the game, I'm also not interested in seeing the two heroines become a couple -- I think they'd be perfectly fine off as friends (I say this, even though I'm an avid yuri fan).
Oh well. Maybe my mind will change somewhere along the road.
ahhh, so they were men in drag. i thought they were awfully big. they sounded like Masumi from Nodame so that's what tipped me off...
and yes, Venessa and Madlax.... but Madlax ended up with Limelda....
you could say Kirika and Chloe, since they actually got naked and kissed...
i wonder if this one will go more overt like Noir is be more implied like Madlax...
actually, Limelda actually said, "Madlxa, I love you" so that was not implied... you knog what i mean...
EDIT:
yeah, it's not that ep 01 made me want to see any of the girls get together...
just that this trilogy has a history of that sort of thing...
WanderingKnight
2007-04-02, 21:18
As I double-clicked that single AVI file, my mind was wondering. Did they really intend to do it all again? To tell the same whole story again? I was doubting out of a slight hope, expecting that the series would not be going to take the same path.
The first second of the opening told me how wrong that expectation was. It was like watching Noir's and Madlax's openings again. All again.
However, as soon as the episode kicked in (after the short prelude), I was greeted with a refreshing surprise. What's that? Did Kajiura Yuki make something that isn't actually her overused techno-gothic music? Oh, man, those few seconds of a bluesy country song were a bliss for me, someone who likes Kajiura Yuki, believes in her potential, but is tired of seeing her make replicas of her own songs. I actually believed for an instant that this series was going to feature a more experimental Kajiura, but then again, later in the episode I was bashed with more of her typical techno-gothic stuff. Don't take me wrong, her songs are very good, I enjoy them a lot, but she's been making the same songs again and again and again. Argh.
The rest of the episode was what could be expected of a Madlax and Noir copycat. If anything, it's been made more ridiculous by the comedy thrown in, which doesn't work at all for me because of BeeTrain's traditional (and also ridiculous) slow pacing.
Still, I'm going to watch this series. Who knows, maybe somewhere inside my mind I'm still hoping for Kajiura to surprise me with some more experimental facets of herself (the theme of the anime certainly gives her enough space to try that), or maybe I intend to rewatch Madlax, which I really liked, but I don't want to pull the DVD out of where I'm keeping it. Who knows.
BaronNoir
2007-04-02, 21:52
Downloading it ATM !
A bit of comedy would help. But is this constant, or just a sort of side-joke.
brightman
2007-04-02, 22:04
A bit of comedy would help. But is this constant, or just a sort of side-joke.
I wouldn't call it straight comedy... Just that there are some characters who aren't serious 100% of the time and show up with an occasional SD face.
Deacon Blues
2007-04-02, 23:04
I got bored, so here are lyrics to the ending song...
終わらない夏のように 散らない花のように
抱き締めたその腕は ずっと離さないでいてよ
縋りついてみても 胸はまだ違う儚さで
時のリズム数えてる 赤い星の夜
消えてゆく温もり
繋ぎとめていいのよ 瞳閉じた君を
憧れを繰り返し 何処へも行け無くても
切なさの立ち止まる この一時が二人のすべてよ
owaranai natsu no you ni chiranai hana no you ni
dakishimeta sono ude wa zutto hanasanai de ite yo
sugaritsuite mite mo mune wa mada chigau hakanasa de
toki no rizumu kazoeteru akai hoshi no yoru
kiete yuku nukumori
tsunagi tomete ii no yo hitomi tojita kimi wo
akokare wo kurikaeshi doko e mo yukenakute mo
setsunasa no tachidomaru kono hitotoki ga futari no subete yo
My blog post (http://deackychu.blogspot.com/2007/04/romanesque-lyrics.html) should have a translation later on. =)
Kaoru Chujo
2007-04-02, 23:59
Since I didn't have very high hopes for this show, I was pleased with it. The look is nice, although less serious in some sense than I expected. But it worked. Very pleasant to look at. The music is good. I like the characters, and the way the story is developing. But the first part of the episode seemed to crawl, to me, with long-drawn-out shots for effect that didn't have any effect on me. The second half reached me more. And the music is certainly good. As is the voice-acting. I'm amazed how Shimizu Ai is broadening her range. And I love Itou Shizuka.
Wavedash
2007-04-03, 00:28
My take: (Noir + Madlax)/2. As others have noted, more childfriendly than either of the previous Mashimo girls with guns series.
Shimizu Ai sounds like Minawa Ando...I don't see much development in her acting there, Kaoru. And Itou Shizuka coy as always (a very good thing). The presence of Hisakawa Aya makes her the only seiyuu to have remained in some major capacity for all three such Mashimo works.
Musically, there is no clear thematic element yet unlike most of Kajiura's writing. If you examine Noir, for instance, the motifs are easy to see - a mixture of electronica with repeated choral references to old Christian hymns and requiems. A few romantic pieces round out the feel. I'm hoping she did have something in mind, because her best work is usually when she has three or so base leitmotifs to create variations on. So far, there has been a bluesy tune that will probably be reused for all sorts of casual scenes and the piece used at the end in the action scene. The action piece may see further development; at least, that's what I hope for.
A great start and sleek animation.
Couldn't help but to post this http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6979/parodymk3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Shinndou
2007-04-03, 06:03
As I double-clicked that single AVI file, my mind was wondering. Did they really intend to do it all again? To tell the same whole story again? I was doubting out of a slight hope, expecting that the series would not be going to take the same path.
The first second of the opening told me how wrong that expectation was. It was like watching Noir's and Madlax's openings again. All again.
However, as soon as the episode kicked in (after the short prelude), I was greeted with a refreshing surprise. What's that? Did Kajiura Yuki make something that isn't actually her overused techno-gothic music? Oh, man, those few seconds of a bluesy country song were a bliss for me, someone who likes Kajiura Yuki, believes in her potential, but is tired of seeing her make replicas of her own songs. I actually believed for an instant that this series was going to feature a more experimental Kajiura, but then again, later in the episode I was bashed with more of her typical techno-gothic stuff. Don't take me wrong, her songs are very good, I enjoy them a lot, but she's been making the same songs again and again and again. Argh.
The rest of the episode was what could be expected of a Madlax and Noir copycat. If anything, it's been made more ridiculous by the comedy thrown in, which doesn't work at all for me because of BeeTrain's traditional (and also ridiculous) slow pacing.
Still, I'm going to watch this series. Who knows, maybe somewhere inside my mind I'm still hoping for Kajiura to surprise me with some more experimental facets of herself (the theme of the anime certainly gives her enough space to try that), or maybe I intend to rewatch Madlax, which I really liked, but I don't want to pull the DVD out of where I'm keeping it. Who knows.
I totally sympathize and share your same opinion on Kajiura. Which is why I was also relieved, even if it was just at the beginning of the episode, to actually listen to something different from her usual electronica+gregorian like choirs which has become too repetitive and somehow boring to listen to. I was beginning to fear that she wouldn't progress at all as a composer, being stuck with the same motives, instruments and patterns throughout different anime shows, but atleast she somehow tried to do something a little different here, atleast for this very first episode. I do sincerly hope that we'll get to hear more different styles during the next episodes, else I'll begin to be slightly disappointed towards her.
Regarding the the episode itself... Well yes, it felt a lot like Madlax and Noir, storytelling-wise, but I'm glad it didn't feel overly serious like the other two (it actually had some laid-back moments, albeit there wasn't an explicit comicity). I liked Nadi's character. Animation-wise it was ok, nothing jaw-dropping but nothing bad either, some background-art was well done (at the beginning and the end, the shots where you get to see the desert and mountains around the city), while other were rather average. I can't really complain though, I know BeeTrain isn't exactly notorious for top-notch animation-quality, hence this is good enough.
Srin Tuar
2007-04-03, 08:24
The rest of the episode was what could be expected of a Madlax and Noir copycat.
I think that pretty much sums up my opinion of this show.
I didnt watch either of those shows past ep2 (my minimum threshhold for dropping a show)
So I don't expect I'll be following this any further.
The cowbow and little daugther scene caught my interest for a second. They looked interesting.
But after ordering his beer, milk, and enchiladas, and the whole rest of the show passes, they just get up and leave. No further talking or development, really just a breif cameo. What was the point ?? ? ? ?? Why even show that part? :eyebrow:
Shinndou
2007-04-03, 08:41
I think that pretty much sums up my opinion of this show.
I didnt watch either of those shows past ep2 (my minimum threshhold for dropping a show)
So I don't expect I'll be following this any further.
The cowbow and little daugther scene caught my interest for a second. They looked interesting.
But after ordering his beer, milk, and enchiladas, and the whole rest of the show passes, they just get up and leave. No further talking or development, really just a breif cameo. What was the point ?? ? ? ?? Why even show that part? :eyebrow:
That's Bee Train for you. Some people like that way to just show characters that will only have a clear role later on, and others just find it's a waste of time. I sort of belong to the latter one, although I want to give this serie a try for atleast a few more other episodes to really see if this is just going to be Madlax all over again or if it might actually evolve into something different, atleast. :)
But after ordering his beer, milk, and enchiladas, and the whole rest of the show passes, they just get up and leave. No further talking or development, really just a breif cameo. What was the point ?? ? ? ?? Why even show that part?
I think the cowboy (Ricardo according to the official site) is there to keep an eye on the bounty hunters. Rosenberg wants Ellis to use her powers to escape capture but he doesn't want her killed. Of course, this doesn't explain why he is brining a little girl with him. Another person with a witch DNA maybe? That's of course mainly speculation backed by outside sources (the site) but why should the characters introduce themselves in the first epsiode? I for one woudl prefer more suspense.
But the first part of the episode seemed to crawl, to me, with long-drawn-out shots for effect that didn't have any effect on me.
Chances are there will be many more such drawn-out shots, so be prepared. ;)
As is the voice-acting. I'm amazed how Shimizu Ai is broadening her range.
I am amazed how she made me immediately like a type of character I usually dislike.
niwasatou
2007-04-03, 12:12
I enjoyed what I saw. I really did. Now, I'm someone who watched Noir back then, and occasionally rewatches it (not the filler-like episodes though). :p
Awesome, catchy OP by savage genius. The ED.. well, I liked the BGM piece better, actually. Nice new vocals by Yuuka.
And, lazy me didn't bother to check the seiyuu before I watched the episode, what do I get? "ZOMG! Wait, that's Toyoguchi Megumi!" :love:
Blue-kun
2007-04-03, 12:20
As I double-clicked that single AVI file, my mind was wondering. Did they really intend to do it all again? To tell the same whole story again? I was doubting out of a slight hope, expecting that the series would not be going to take the same path.
The first second of the opening told me how wrong that expectation was. It was like watching Noir's and Madlax's openings again. All again.
However, as soon as the episode kicked in (after the short prelude), I was greeted with a refreshing surprise. What's that? Did Kajiura Yuki make something that isn't actually her overused techno-gothic music? Oh, man, those few seconds of a bluesy country song were a bliss for me, someone who likes Kajiura Yuki, believes in her potential, but is tired of seeing her make replicas of her own songs. I actually believed for an instant that this series was going to feature a more experimental Kajiura, but then again, later in the episode I was bashed with more of her typical techno-gothic stuff. Don't take me wrong, her songs are very good, I enjoy them a lot, but she's been making the same songs again and again and again. Argh.
The rest of the episode was what could be expected of a Madlax and Noir copycat. If anything, it's been made more ridiculous by the comedy thrown in, which doesn't work at all for me because of BeeTrain's traditional (and also ridiculous) slow pacing.
Still, I'm going to watch this series. Who knows, maybe somewhere inside my mind I'm still hoping for Kajiura to surprise me with some more experimental facets of herself (the theme of the anime certainly gives her enough space to try that), or maybe I intend to rewatch Madlax, which I really liked, but I don't want to pull the DVD out of where I'm keeping it. Who knows.
While I do agree with you that the first episode featured some songs that were quite new to Kajiura, I don't understand this "typical techno-gothic" stuff. That's too much Salva Nos era to me. Ever since then she composed lots of songs with her "regular" style, but also tried some pretty different stuff. I believe Silly-Go-Round is a good example of this (since you used a YUUKA song as reference, I might as well quote one myself), not to mention Aikoi (and so on). Both are innovative on their own way and don't really feature any traces of Kajiura's "regular" style.
She's improving, no doubt of that. And while she has some songs that sound somewhat like old ones, it's not a bad thing at all. Happens to all of them, even Yoko Kanno's like that. The songs I had a chance to listen to from the new Darker than BLACK OST were REALLY alike to CB's.
Anyway, as for the episode itself, I liked it. Never finished both of the other series, however, it wasn't that much of a copy/paste. The humour they added to the series added a different touch to it, the high number of characters until now helped too, not to mention that they're pretty much more laid-back than in Noir/MADLAX.
Animation quality was what you could expect from Bee-train, not really awesome, but pretty solid to me. The OST, well, I think I got my point up there, so I really liked it.
All in all, pretty enjoyable first episode and I'm eagerly waiting for more to see how they are going to handle the story from now on.
Ban_Mido
2007-04-03, 13:28
Fiction Yuuka ending is awesome! I love it! Romanesque (love the title too :) ).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF8VZDGKCrg
Timeless Enigma
2007-04-03, 14:01
For some odd reason I can tolerate someone rehashing their musical style until infinity, but I can't stand a character designer who's characters all look the same in every show (Hisashi Hirai). I suppose one factor is, I really like the style Kajiura seems to use the most. I don't, however, think Hirai's characters look all that great, they're not bad, but they're not awe-inspiring either.
Anyway, seems like I was right for feeling Madlax/Noir vibes on this one. I never watched Noir but I did try out Madlax and I didn't feel it was worth it. This anime already is giving me that feeling, but perhaps I'll wait a little longer before I drop it.
MrProphet
2007-04-03, 15:36
I was infinitely bored by this series. Koichi Mashimo seems to be legally forbidden from producing an original plot that doesn't have two girls, one amazon, on amnesic, searching out the amnesic's past. The screenshot below was the only thing that made those 20 minutes something a little bit less than a complete waste of time.
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/1372/cazador13ic6.th.jpg (http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cazador13ic6.jpg)
BluWacky
2007-04-03, 15:49
I was infinitely bored by this series. Koichi Mashimo seems to be legally forbidden from producing an original plot that doesn't have two girls, one amazon, on amnesic, searching out the amnesic's past.
Come now, they're BOTH amnesiac ;)
You're entirely right, but I still enjoyed (well, I think I enjoyed) El Cazador 1. I think I may be giving it the benefit of teh doubt because the first episode wasn't overly excitign really, but I'm hoping things will get a bit more interesting later on.
And what was the cat with a bazooka all about? Straaaange people at Bee Train.
Fellini 8.5
2007-04-03, 16:00
And what was the cat with a bazooka all about? Straaaange people at Bee Train.
I was still laughing about this, so I missed the cat the first time:
http://www.beetrainfan.org/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=1303&g2_serialNumber=1
I was suitably entertained, but I'm an easy target for Mashimo's stuff. But I think it's kind of funny that Spider Riders has more in common with MADLAX in terms of creative team than El Cazador does. Go figure.
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/1372/cazador13ic6.th.jpg (http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cazador13ic6.jpg)
Loli liek milk.
Well, after watching first episode I have to say I liked it, but then, girls with guns "genre" is one of my favorites.
Opening rocked, I have already watched it several times, episode itself wasn't great, but certainly not disappointing either. I got the what the heck is going on feeling so I'm following this.
I'm not sure what to think about Ellis, but Nadi is very likeable, much more than Mirelle or Madlax were.
Contrary to others who expressed disappointment about Kajiura "rehashing" her former works, I'm very pleased with what I just heard ^_^
First of all, it definitely has its roots in the kind of music Fiction Junction is famous for, but I don't mind that at all. That's what I want to hear. When I purchase an album by an interpret, I usually want to hear the kind of music he does best. When I purchase Nightwish, I don't expect Sting. Same here.
Besides, the first battlehymn starting around 17:30 has a very convincing dynamic typical "Kajiura" energy to it. I would hate to miss it :)
I'm not sure what to think about Ellis, but Nadi is very likeable, much more than Mirelle or Madlax were.
They certainly do seem more "alive" than previous iterations of the genre.
i will enjoy this thread very much after about ep 6 when people who hate the series have left the thread and only fans remain. i will always love noir. madlax was a step down to me, but still a part of something i loved. and this is continuing the tradition.
i would point out that Koichi Mashimo has said in previous interviews that Noir and Madlax are more connected than they appeared originally. he seemed to imply that the third series would tie the first two together. personally, i think this could only have worked if Noir weren't set in real countries. i only say that since Madlax just mad a bunch of stuff up when it came to countries and politics. we'll see in the coming months how the three shows are connected. but the fact that Mireille did make a cameo is perhaps not just a nod to fans but instead a sign of things to come....
now, about the chara designs... Ricardo looks so much like Quent Yaiden from Wolf's Rain (he was Blue's owner who was hunting wolves) that i will complain. the girls looking the same from noir to madlax to cazador are okay because it's a trilogy. wolf's rain is unrelated, so it's just weird. (i also think that Ricardo and the girl remind me of Mister and Blues's daughter - forgot her name - from Coyote Ragtime, but i don't see how they're related)
mouhitori
2007-04-03, 17:46
It would be interesting if all the series can connect in some ways.
The music would be the main reason for me watching in the mean time. I do feel it's great.
I think if someone never watched Noir & Madlax, the series would feel a lot more interesting.
Brief summary and screenshots of episode 1 (http://mouhitori.blogspot.com/2007/04/el-cazador-1-runaway-girl.html)
TougeSil80
2007-04-03, 17:55
Just watched ep.1, loving the music here. But I do agree that this is like Madlax with a little bit of Noir thrown in. Hopefully the pacing would be better than Madlax. I loved Noir and liked Madlax, so I'm definitely watching this one.
WTF? First people were complaining that the character designs were too different to Noir and Madlax, now that they are too similar - make up your mind! :)
Contrary to others who expressed disappointment about Kajiura "rehashing" her former works, I'm very pleased with what I just heard ^_^
First of all, it definitely has its roots in the kind of music Fiction Junction is famous for, but I don't mind that at all. That's what I want to hear. When I purchase an album by an interpret, I usually want to hear the kind of music he does best. When I purchase Nightwish, I don't expect Sting. Same here.
Besides, the first battlehymn starting around 17:30 has a very convincing dynamic typical "Kajiura" energy to it. I would hate to miss it
Exactly. And the opening piece of background music that plays when the mountain lake is shown after the opening is brilliant, IMO.
Shinndou
2007-04-03, 18:17
First of all, it definitely has its roots in the kind of music Fiction Junction is famous for, but I don't mind that at all. That's what I want to hear. When I purchase an album by an interpret, I usually want to hear the kind of music he does best. When I purchase Nightwish, I don't expect Sting. Same here.
I am sorry but your example doesn't fit, in my opinion. A composer who gets hired to produce a soundtrack for an anime or a movie or whatever, cannot be compared to a band or a singer. A band will most likely maintain a certain style because that's their own choice, but a composer who has to write and realize music for a work/story/setting that's originated from someone else's mind should adapt a certain musical register and style that has to match the original work. You don't hear gregorian chants and electronic music in a western-like work, not even in real movies, because that's not the right style for that kind of setting and atmosphere. So while I do agree with you and with other people that a musical artist can mantain a certain style and flavour, this doesn't justify the fact that Kajiura has been repeating certain musical patterns and styles too frequently in different shows, without any real solid difference. Since this is a forum regarding anime, I'll just take Yoko Kanno as an example of what I am trying to explain: Yoko Kanno has actually a wider variety of styles, because for each show she's worked for, she produced a soundtrack that would fit the theme and the "flavour" of the show itself. Cowboy Bebop? We have jazz, bebop and other similar styles. GiTS? We have electronica and industrial-rock mixed with it. Aquarion? We have a classical orchestra with classical music performing most of the soundtrack, with little to no electronic instruments playing in it. You get the idea. Anyway, of course I am not expecting you to absolutely agree with my point of view, but I was trying to atleast show you that what I meant to say about Kajiura's style not changing that much throughout different shows somehow makes some sense. And of course, one can still like her style no matter what, I know. De gustibus non disputandum est. ;)
Srin Tuar
2007-04-03, 18:21
i will enjoy this thread very much after about ep 6 when people who hate the series have left the thread and only fans remain. i will always love noir. madlax was a step down to me, but still a part of something i loved. and this is continuing the tradition.
Hehe, I must admit I'm guilty of commenting on the first ep or two of every show I watch.
For many shows, that makes me a "hater" even as i tell myself I'm open to anything in anime form.
This show seemed to have nice character designs and I wanted to be hooked on it, but I guess this genre is just not for me. (I'll avoid commenting on ep2 if i don't love it :P )
Shinndou, i agree with you almost completely. but i would say that you should complain about Kajiura's music in other shows and not Noir-Madlax-El Cazador. Just because these three are so closely related, i feel that the music should help link them together.
though i do agree that she far too often uses certain themes and refrains in different shows and only changes one or two things. i think people are arguing more due to your use of certain musical terms that others are not entirely familiar with (theme, for example). you're breaking the music down in an almost academic manner. most people don't do that. so... just let the fans be fans and let's stop arguing so much about Kajiura's music. It is, after all, the El Cazador thread and not the Kajiura thread....
@Srin Tuar: hehe i didn't mean to be harsh, but i'm glad you see what i was saying.
Shinndou
2007-04-03, 19:06
Shinndou, i agree with you almost completely. but i would say that you should complain about Kajiura's music in other shows and not Noir-Madlax-El Cazador. Just because these three are so closely related, i feel that the music should help link them together.
though i do agree that she far too often uses certain themes and refrains in different shows and only changes one or two things. i think people are arguing more due to your use of certain musical terms that others are not entirely familiar with (theme, for example). you're breaking the music down in an almost academic manner. most people don't do that. so... just let the fans be fans and let's stop arguing so much about Kajiura's music. It is, after all, the El Cazador thread and not the Kajiura thread....
Well yes, in my first post after having watched episode one I did in fact say that:
Which is why I was also relieved, even if it was just at the beginning of the episode, to actually listen to something different from her usual electronica+gregorian like choirs which has become too repetitive and somehow boring to listen to.
Although at the end of the episode you get to hear the gregorian choir again, atleast in the first half the soundtrack is fitting the atmosphere. Now I just hope that this "experiment" she's doing will go on in the next episodes as well, I'd be really happy about it. I don't know about you but for me a fitting soundtrack is one of the key roles in making a real good show, so I tend to pay atleast some attention on it, most of the times. Anyway you are right, I am indeed talking too much about Kajiura, I apologize to everybody for having somehow brought this discussion a bit off-topic.
I<3killerloli's
2007-04-03, 19:06
I've downloaded the RAW but I'm not going to wach all of this until it is subbed. I love the intro (someone who mentioned a connection to Noir only has to look at the OP to see the possibility HINT: The wine glass pouring backwards...hmmm...)
But I was shocked by something. If anybody can understand Japanese better than I can, please go back to the beggining scene of the episode and tell me if they can hear the narrator say "Maxwell". That's my name so it sort of caught me off guard. I'd like to know the context of it. I was able to make out the English word Entropy which is a high scientific/philosophic term for the eventual decay of the universe and thus oblivion (yep, we're in a Bee Train anime).
The narrator talks about Maxwell's demon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell%27s_demon) and entropy, yes.
This show seemed to have nice character designs and I wanted to be hooked on it, but I guess this genre is just not for me. (I'll avoid commenting on ep2 if i don't love it :P
Why? What's wrong with some criticism? If you don't like it feel free to say so.
Since this is a forum regarding anime, I'll just take Yoko Kanno as an example of what I am trying to explain: Yoko Kanno has actually a wider variety of styles, [...]
Erhm... sorry, I won't go there. I understand the point you're trying to make, but we'll have to agree to disagree. I'll readily concede that Yoko Kanno experiments more and that she'll be more "diverse". But the fact is that (at least in my personal opinion) this comes at a noticeable drop in quality.
While on Kajiura soundtracks, I tend to playlist around 6 songs and have 2-3 on repeat for quite a while, Kanno soundtracks tend to give me 2 songs and 1 on repeat. Also, I'm definitely getting more "emotionally involved" in the Kajiura tracks.
Does this mean that Kajiura is better? Heck no, only that I like her better. And that I definitely prefer to hear her style, which has become a trademark of the Bee Train shows. That's the key of _my_ argument. I don't want Kajiura to bounce around Kanno-style. I want to hear HER music (which by the way _is_ adjusted to the background's ethnic touches).
But as you said: De gustibus non disputandum est.
I saw the first episode of El Cazador yesterday and my impressions were fairly mixed. First off the positive side: the music with the opening and ending themes were awesome. I'm a big fan of Kujiura Yuki, so I will always check out an anime at least for her music. Also, the animation was pretty good: nothing to write home about, but satisfying enough, although I wish it was more detailed like Noir (not Madlax). However, with such talented voice talent as Shimizu Ai and Itou Shizuka, I would have thought the acting would have been better. Instead, when I saw the first episode and heard their voices, I thought they were complete newcomers to the voice acting scene. In addition, all the random pauses in scenes were unnecessary and detracted too much from the actual story at hand. Despite these shortcomings, I'll continue to watch this show as I am sort of interested in the plot and where it'll go from here. I'm definitely getting the soundtrack no matter what, though :D
WanderingKnight
2007-04-03, 21:21
Erhm... sorry, I won't go there. I understand the point you're trying to make, but we'll have to agree to disagree. I'll readily concede that Yoko Kanno experiments more and that she'll be more "diverse". But the fact is that (at least in my personal opinion) this comes at a noticeable drop in quality.
There's two things when approaching a judgment on a musician. First, is the objective one, which is, the judgment of the technical resources of said musician, and then comes the subjective valuation, that is, if you like the musician or not.
Technically and objectively speaking, you can never doubt that Kanno beats Kajiura's ass all over the place. The extreme amount of styles she covers and the extreme technical quality within all of her songs, even her most experimental ones (I always evoke the example of Yakitori, a full-fledged, 7 minutes long guitar solo that has some of the best bass lines and drums I've heard in my entire life, found in the soundtrack for GitS: SAC, and even people who are complete outsiders to the anime fandom have told me so) places her undoubtedly several steps higher than Kajiura.
However, if you're gonna judge based on your personal preference, then I can't help you there. There are as many tastes in music as there are people, and nobody can tell you what to like or dislike. I repeat myself, I like Kajiura, and there are many songs of Kanno I dislike, but I can't doubt for a moment that Kanno is a better musician, technically speaking, than Kajiura. End of the story.
I agree with you that Kanno's music is way better that Kujiura's due to Kanno's variety in style while Kajiura's music tends not to deviate. However, I don't fixate on who's better while watching an anime. I just try to enjoy the music no matter who the composer is :D
...just watched raw thought don't understand a thing.
I don't like the music at all. It sounds so common, like any Japanese pop music. Who told me that it is going to be set in South America? It really doesn't sound anything like that, although I am not an expert in SA music. But it just sounds so plain, like something you hear every day from some Japanese high schooler, although I have never been in Japan. What am I saying? :heh:
i wonder what subber will pick this up...
prince leon
2007-04-04, 10:09
Woops, I feel asleep before I could link this xD:
Episode 1 summary + screencaps (http://kzi.animeblogger.net/2007/04/04/el-cazador-de-la-bruja-ep-1/)
DangerMouse
2007-04-04, 16:15
...just watched raw thought don't understand a thing.
I don't like the music at all. It sounds so common, like any Japanese pop music. Who told me that it is going to be set in South America? It really doesn't sound anything like that, although I am not an expert in SA music. But it just sounds so plain, like something you hear every day from some Japanese high schooler, although I have never been in Japan. What am I saying? :heh:
I personally really like Kajiura's music and her style of music so I might be biased. Honestly unless you are just talking about the rather unfitting typical Jpop OP by a totally different composer/musician than the rest of the music (the ED fits well), I guess I'm not hearing what you are as I can't understand the "it sounds so common" complaint in El Cazador, there's only one song in the first episode that is of her usual type and it's definitely not a pop song and the rest is very fitting to the setting. The first piece for example reminds me more of Kanno's work more than anything else with the harmonica and stuff. So I'm not really sure where it sounds like jpop teen music other than the OP?
There's a whole lot of Kanno-like harmonica, and guitar very fitting for the backgrounds atleast to my ear (I also don't really know much about SA music, but it sounds fitting and old western-like) and lots of orchestral stuff with lots of violin as Kajiura often does. I think the soundtrack is pretty far removed from "common" unless it's in relation to Noir and Madlax which isn't what I was getting reading your post heh.
The only thing Jpop at all is the OP, and since it's not even by the same person as the show's music I don't even really consider it part of the soundtrack. It's not exactly fitting to the setting nor anything like the rest of the music.
Actually the arrangement of the opening is also done by Kajiura. The composition by takumi from Savage Genius. I think it fits the more lighthearted mood of the show, compared to its predecessors.
DangerMouse
2007-04-04, 18:19
Actually the arrangement of the opening is also done by Kajiura. The composition by takumi from Savage Genius. I think it fits the more lighthearted mood of the show, compared to its predecessors.
Ah I didn't realize that, the style seemed quite different from her even though I thought it fit well with the Madlax, Noir, Avenger openings, I guess I'm impressed :)
Yeah that does seem true, it's certainly less heavy. The visuals of the OP are quite nice too, some great mysterious settings and things as in the other shows.
But it doesn't necessarily fit the location setting which is what I was trying to disprove about the rest of the music :) I found the rest of the music very fitting of the setting and as usual can't wait for another Kajiura series OST.
I watched it the second time and it got better. But still, it just sounds like common Jpop. What I mean is it is better than Steel Angel Kurumi OP, I or II doesn't matter. They all sound alike. But not whole lot better. I like the music of noir and my hime. The op of noir is a lot better than this. but overall, does it sound South America to you? I really don't think so. Maybe because I was expecting that when people said the setting is going to be in SA, I was surprised that it isn't, in term of music.
DangerMouse
2007-04-05, 12:58
Out of curiosity, just the OP or the rest too? (since you seem to be listing OP music which is often not an indication of a show's "real" soundtrack, IMO :))
Perhaps I should have asked that the first time instead of giving my opinion of the music, cause I agree about the OP not being very SA-like or matching the SA setting (I also feel this way about a lot of OPs though), but the background music I don't agree on :) Noir's OP on the other hand matched the setting and the rest of the soundtrack perfectly.
Out of curiosity, just the OP or the rest too? (since you seem to be listing OP music which is often not an indication of a show's "real" soundtrack, IMO :))
Perhaps I should have asked that the first time instead of giving my opinion of the music, cause I agree about the OP not being very SA-like or matching the SA setting (I also feel this way about a lot of OPs though), but the background music I don't agree on :) Noir's OP on the other hand matched the setting and the rest of the soundtrack perfectly.
The whole sountrack thing, although OP is the only thing that stands out so far because it is in complete version. ED is a little bit better, I think.
I thought the insert song was pretty nice. Or maybe not insert song, more like the main theme of this show. The added vocals, they sound different from Kajiura's usual. This time, I think it sounds like Puerto Rican? Is that what they speak in SA? :heh: Or Spanish? And I have a feeling the vocalist is somebody new from SA.
WanderingKnight
2007-04-05, 18:32
This time, I think it sounds like Puerto Rican? Is that what they speak in SA? Or Spanish? And I have a feeling the vocalist is somebody new from SA.
Seems you have no idea what Spanish sounds like :heh:. Sounds like Japanese mixed with Italian (?) to me.
And the singer is surely Japanese. I can tell without even looking at the credits.
Seems you have no idea what Spanish sounds like :heh:. Sounds like Japanese mixed with Italian (?) to me.
And the singer is surely Japanese. I can tell without even looking at the credits.
Really? :heh: If she's Japanese then I wonder which one of the FictionJunction members it is. I think I like this type of Kajiura's vocals rather than her other opera-like vocals. I can't wait to hear more of it.
And I like Nadi, I think that's a good comedic addition!
Really? :heh: If she's Japanese then I wonder which one of the FictionJunction members it is. I think I like this type of Kajiura's vocals rather than her other opera-like vocals.....
My bet is on Nanri Yuuka. She also did the vocals for Madlax BGM.
Really? :heh: If she's Japanese then I wonder which one of the FictionJunction members it is. I think I like this type of Kajiura's vocals rather than her other opera-like vocals. I can't wait to hear more of it.
And I like Nadi, I think that's a good comedic addition!
I like Kajiura's opera-like vocals WAY more than this new type. I like Claymore's music. It is like a mix of Irish folk music, medieval-like and Scottish bagpipe, simple and clear.
DangerMouse
2007-04-05, 21:28
And I like Nadi, I think that's a good comedic addition!
Yeah Nadi is totally awesome, and fortunately her comedic side is well balanced so that she doesn't favor it too much and just adds life to her while she comes off as being a badass when she gets focused. For a serious show like this it will be a bit of a tight rope, but I liked how it added a spark to the first episode.
just to add my 2 cents, i thought the music sounded more like southwestern United States or Northern Mexico than South America. Hopefully she will at least toss in some pan flute in a coming episode, since it's about incan treasures... sort of... or maybe something in portuguese like some forro or bossa nova style. i could see Kajiura hinting at that while still maintaining her style.
WanderingKnight
2007-04-05, 22:54
just to add my 2 cents, i thought the music sounded more like southwestern United States or Northern Mexico than South America. Hopefully she will at least toss in some pan flute in a coming episode, since it's about incan treasures... sort of... or maybe something in portuguese like some forro or bossa nova style. i could see Kajiura hinting at that while still maintaining her style.
Whoa, whoa, stop right there. There were never any Incas in Mexico. Aztecs and Mayas were in Mexico. And this series surely depicts Mexico (enchiladas!).
The "pan flute" you're talking about is actually called sikus and it's an instrument from the South American Puna, which covers some of the Incan territory. It's located roughly around the zone of Peru, but it also extends to Bolivia and northwestern Argentina.
no no no
i wasn't saying there are incas in mexico
i know where they were
the andes
on ANN it says Ellis, a young girl suspected of murdering a prominent physicist Heinrich Schneider, is on the run from an underground society called "Hunters" when she is tracked down by the bounty hunter Nadi in a small Mexican town. However, instead of turning her in, Nadi impulsively decides to help her and the two girls embark on a journey to Ellis' hometown, where they plan on finding clues about her past. From there, they travel south to search for the mysterious Gemstone of the Inca Rose, the "Eternal City" of Wiñay Marka, and Ellis' own obscure destiny.
that's the only reason i said anything about incas.
and what i meant was... people keep saying it doesn't sound like south america, but they are in mexico which is not south america. it central america at best (and technically it's north america). they are currently in north central mexico if i understand right, so i thought the music sounded reasonable for that area. the pan flute and such that i was hoping for were things i want to hear when they travel further south. they're not yet in SA, but they will be (if we are to believe ANN).
and that's all i have to say about that. :P
BaronNoir
2007-04-07, 21:30
Any team subbed it thus far ?
Daniel E.
2007-04-08, 02:55
Any team subbed it thus far ?
A sub is out at last. :) :)
EDIT:
This is the second release of a new group called Bruised Ichigo.
Darklightz
2007-04-08, 09:32
Bee Train for the win! I really liked the first episode.Reminds me a lot of Noir. If they can keep that pace it'll be one of the best current series ot there.
Wosho128
2007-04-08, 12:01
*Has a fanboygasm*
Alright, this is what I've been waiting for ever since I had seen Noir 4 years ago. Madlax really wasn't my thing and I was hoping that the last series to complete the girls-with-guns trilogy would be the best product coming from Bee Train. It's April 2007 and the first episode is a winner. These characters all have personalities; I'm honestly surprised. Ellis is freakin' hilarious. Although she has the Kirika like expressions; she is so full of herself. She wants Nadi to give her more money and she refers to herself as "the pretty girl". The Nadi and Ellis interactions are hilarious for the most part.
Rosenberg is pretty interesting. He's got the elite pretty boy thing going on but it seems like he has something even greater on his mind. The music is excellent. It's not Yuki's best work but it's still full of style.
The fortune teller reminds me of the fortune teller from "Cowboy Bebop". I guess she'll be the person to allude to the future events in the series. I wonder what the alignment of the corn means. "Great things will happen?" Nadi looks like she deserves that fortune. =P
Aw man, this series has got me excited! How will I study for my AP tests when so many great series are out?!?
I was greatly disappointed by the episode. None of the character were very appealing, the music/setting wasn't my thing (there's something just wrong about latin americans speaking japanese mixed with engrish). The animation was also pretty crappy. Everything just didn't fit/wasn't convincing, and the story w/ the girl and her power seems lame.
I loved Noir, so this was a disappointment, though not really a surprise since I didn't like Madlax either.
Wosho128
2007-04-08, 15:37
I loved Noir, so this was a disappointment, though not really a surprise since I didn't like Madlax either.
0_0
Finally, someone shares the same opinion as me on Madlax, lol.
Anyway, what did you find unappealing about the characters so far? (Don't worry, I'm not trying to start a debate.) I just want to know what made you feel that way? Are the characters too cookie-cutter or something in your view? Haha, I like hearing opinions on what's negative and positive about series I like.
Anyway, what did you find unappealing about the characters so far? (Don't worry, I'm not trying to start a debate.) I just want to know what made you feel that way? Are the characters too cookie-cutter or something in your view? Haha, I like hearing opinions on what's negative and positive about series I like.
Well, Nadi is all cheerful and nice, and agrees to help Ellis with hardly a thought. (in fact is already being miss goody-goody towards her even before the convenient death bed request) She's anything but a convincing bounty hunter. Ellis doesn't seem to have a personality yet, so I can't comment on her.
Now if Nadi was a Mireille (from Noir) I would have probably ate it all up. A little convincing drama, maybe Ellis saving her life even as Nadi was being all evil bounty hunter towards her, then making a life changing decision to protect her target. That would have been a great first episode. Instead we get an unconvincing character and a few contrived events and viola the two girls are off to a lame start.
The experience of watching the first episode to El Cazador de la Bruja felt a psychedelic thriller to me, filled with contrasting shades of bright and dark colors.
I do feel that BEE-Train intends to give a solid closure to its "girls with guns" trilogy with a powerful kaboom on El Cazador.
I never watched Noir until my local anime-campus group started to screen it five and one-half years ago, since at the time I had no LAN connection, mIRC, and BitTorrent.
When I started to watch Madlax three years ago I stopped at episode three because I lost interest to the series, mainly because it felt foolish and unbelievable to me how the female lead wiped out the enemy forces with an unnatural ease to the style of American films like Schwarzenegger's Commando movie. I could not take that.
However, El Cazador is different. It's like they returned to the basics established by Noir but with a touch of lightheartedness. In addition, the age gap between the two female leads is neither pronounced nor great, as it was with Noir and Madlax.
I like this unusual mixture within the scope. Lightheartedness complimenting dark drama.
I feel that each title in BEE-Train's trilogy deals about a specific theme that is prevalent in all everyday's issues.
Noir dealt about the darkness of the real world.
El Cazador may delve around fear for the unknown.
The climax and closure for the first episode made an impact upon me and that was thanks to Kajiura's stunning choice of soundtrack and music composition. It reminded me of how Tsubasa Chronicles episode one climaxed and closed on a similar manner.
Ellis quite has a few of the Kirika traits, and upon first glance at Nadi she bears a small semblance to the Meg of the new Bakuretsu Tenshi OVA (not the TV series)
In addition, the prominent traits for the two leads are their wide and colorful eyes which are burned on one's mind so as to identify the characters from the rest of the world with a single gaze.
I do not plan to deliver a particular review for each episode, but I do plan to watch each episode to the end, then give my final comments once the last episode comes around.
This season is packed with lots of interesting titles to which I only have secured three of them for the moment for lengthy discussion debate.
Wosho128
2007-04-08, 16:17
Well, Nadi is all cheerful and nice, and agrees to help Ellis with hardly a thought. (in fact is already being miss goody-goody towards her even before the convenient death bed request) She's anything but a convincing bounty hunter. Ellis doesn't seem to have a personality yet, so I can't comment on her.
Alright, I agree with the Nadi part. She seems a little aloof and airheaded to be one in her occupation. But I like her nonetheless. (And I'm a huge Mireille fan)
I think Ellis has a personality so far though. She smiles, she's a little narcissistic and she has a bit more dialogue than Kirika did in the first episode of Noir.
Hmmm...I should proboably stop the Noir comparisons.
Ahhh well, I'm interested in seeing where this series is going to go! I know it takes a few episodes to build momentum for Bee Train but I was really content with the first episode.
there's something just wrong about latin americans speaking japanese mixed with engrish
So you are watching only anime set in Japan? :heh:
Now if Nadi was a Mireille (from Noir) I would have probably ate it all up. A little convincing drama, maybe Ellis saving her life even as Nadi was being all evil bounty hunter towards her, then making a life changing decision to protect her target.
In other words you want a repetition of Noir's first episode. Didn't you get more than enough similarities?
Well, Nadi is all cheerful and nice, and agrees to help Ellis with hardly a thought. (in fact is already being miss goody-goody towards her even before the convenient death bed request) She's anything but a convincing bounty hunter
I think Nadi had decided to help Ellis from the start, for all we know she might have had a perfectly good reason to do so. Now, if she was a ruthless bounty hunter at first and decided to become all nice and helpful out of the blue, I think you'd have had more of a point.
So you are watching only anime set in Japan? :heh:
No, but it's just strange for me personally.
In other words you want a repetition of Noir's first episode. Didn't you get more than enough similarities?
I don't mind seeing repeats of things I enjoy :p but other than similarities in the personalities it wouldn't really be any more a repeat than it already is. (if i remember Noir's first episode correctly)
I think Nadi had decided to help Ellis from the start, for all we know she might have had a perfectly good reason to do so. Now, if she was a ruthless bounty hunter at first and decided to become all nice and helpful out of the blue, I think you'd have had more of a point.
Still, she's supposed to be a bounty hunter. And at the end she says "I want money, but I promised your grandmother." Sure doesn't seem to me she had any plans beyond catching Ellis for the bounty on her head.
I like the first ep so far. Ellis is just too funny. What kind of trick is that? :D Her reponse is just hilarious. Nadi needs to take a fashion lesson because nobody dresses like that on street! And that hair, urr. :( Anyway, I can overlook music thing. I will be following this one. So many to watch ...nanoha, el cazador, darker than black (I am not sure about this one yet), and I am surely dropping claymore--too much gore.
ZeusIrae
2007-04-08, 17:28
It's the first time I noticed the absence of blood.......I think it's time for me to stop watching bee train's "guns and girls" shows.
Ah......but for old times' sake I will wait.
Daniel E.
2007-04-08, 17:42
Never watched Noir or Madlax, But I think I am gonna follow this show a bit more to see how it develops over the weeks. :)
(there's something just wrong about latin americans speaking japanese mixed with engrish).
If you are talking about eps. 1, I barely hear any in this episode. :confused:
Probably only that Dead or Alive line from Nadi.
WanderingKnight
2007-04-08, 18:40
there's something just wrong about latin americans speaking japanese mixed with engrish
There were no Latin Americans! What are you talking about!? The girl singing the insert song was Japanese, hands down. Just listen to her voice!
Why do people reckon that because this is a Latin American setting, it has to have Latin American staff? What sort of mischievous relation are people making between the two?
PS: If you meant Spanish-speaking Japanese, then you should sort out your spelling.
Still, she's supposed to be a bounty hunter. And at the end she says "I want money, but I promised your grandmother." Sure doesn't seem to me she had any plans beyond catching Ellis for the bounty on her head.
She was never really trying to catch Ellis anyway. Either that or she is utterly incompetent in her job. What kind of bounty hunter would kindly ask the fugitive whether she is the wanted person? After all, you'd expect Ellis to lie in such a situation.
Or maybe I am just indulging in some sort of wishful thinking because if Nadi genuinely came with the intention of getting the reward and changed her mind because Ellis looked helpless and innocent, the car trick was too cool or for whatever different reason, that would frankly be rather annoying, especially if we were not shown clearly the reason for her change of heart.
When I started to watch Madlax three years ago I stopped at episode three because I lost interest to the series, mainly because it felt foolish and unbelievable to me how the female lead wiped out the enemy forces with an unnatural ease to the style of American films like Schwarzenegger's Commando movie. I could not take that.
Fair enough but it's funny you couldn't take that in Madlax yet you seem to have taken pretty well things like the Noir girls killing dozens of enemies at times.
There were no Latin Americans! What are you talking about!? The girl singing the insert song was Japanese, hands down. Just listen to her voice!
Why do people reckon that because this is a Latin American setting, it has to have Latin American staff? What sort of mischievous relation are people making between the two?
PS: If you meant Spanish-speaking Japanese, then you should sort out your spelling.
The characters are supposed to be latin americans (i assume. at least Nadi is, and all the bystanders so far.) Of course none of the voice actors are. What kind of moron would think otherwise? lol
WanderingKnight
2007-04-08, 19:36
The characters are supposed to be latin americans (i assume. at least Nadi is, and all the bystanders so far.) Of course none of the voice actors are. What kind of moron would think otherwise? lol
Uhhh, if that's what you mean, then you should broaden your perspective a little... if it all was like you said, then all Japanese people could animate are Japan-based stories... and thousands of non-Japan based anime would go to waste. In fact, neither Madlax nor Noir are Japan-based, so their speaking of Japanese is out of place?
I really don't get what difference there is between Latin Americans and the rest of the settings portrayed by anime, according to you.
i'm not entirely certain that the characters are supposed to be latin american. at least i say this in regards to Nadi. i know what they've said so far, but the other two series always showed the girls' pasts to be something entirely different from what was originally thought. though i could be wrong...
right now it actually feels like they're all foreign to the setting...
and i'm glad someone picked this up so soon! i hope since they're a new group that they stick with it and maintain enough enthusiasm to continue with the speed they showed on the first ep (v2 aside...) :)
She was never really trying to catch Ellis anyway. ..... Or maybe I am just indulging in some sort of wishful thinking....If she wasn't hunting her then why carry a photo of the girl??
Uhhh, if that's what you mean, then you should broaden your perspective a little... if it all was like you said, then all Japanese people could animate are Japan-based stories... and thousands of non-Japan based anime would go to waste. In fact, neither Madlax nor Noir are Japan-based, so their speaking of Japanese is out of place?
I really don't get what difference there is between Latin Americans and the rest of the settings portrayed by anime, according to you.
As I already said in another post it was weird for me, personally. Don't let my comment bother you too much.
If she wasn't hunting her then why carry a photo of the girl??
She was looking for Ellis obviously and a photo is always helpful in such a situation but my guess was that she wasn't doing that in order to collect the reward.
Daniel E.
2007-04-08, 20:49
She was looking for Ellis obviously and a photo is always helpful in such a situation but my guess was that she wasn't doing that in order to collect the reward.
I agree with this. Nadi's actions seems to be (IMO) a part of a much bigger plan. One we have yet to see in full.
I am also gonna guess that she is not alone in this.
WanderingKnight
2007-04-08, 20:52
Of course there's some sort of hidden agenda in every character. This is a Madlax/Noir rehash anyways, so...
Daniel E.
2007-04-08, 21:22
Of course there's some sort of hidden agenda in every character. This is a Madlax/Noir rehash anyways, so...
Well, like I said a page ago, I have never seen those two animes. So I am actually making clean guesses here. :)
I guess it kinda shows, from this and the other post in the Lucky Star thread, that I dont watch that many shows. :heh:
I<3killerloli's
2007-04-08, 22:15
El Cazador had me at the end with their version of Salva Nos / Nowhere / The Typical Action Song. Pure Kajiura PWNAGE. I'm sold. When does the OST drop?
WanderingKnight
2007-04-08, 22:23
Well, like I said a page ago, I have never seen those two animes. So I am actually making clean guesses here.
I guess it kinda shows, from this and the other post in the Lucky Star thread, that I dont watch that many shows.
You didn't miss anything from not seeing Madlax/Noir, IMHO, so you're clean... for now :D
Well, i think i enjoyed the 1st ep quite a bit. I like the character designs (for the main two girls anyway :p ), the animation is solid, even if nothing spectacular, and the music is very much to my liking. The pacing was a bit too high imo...or the scene transitions were simply too abrupt.
Also i don't exactly follow Nadi's reasoning - just why did she decide to help Ellis escape so suddenly, if she is supposed to be "hunting" her? Unless she wanted to find Ellis for some other reason, which i think might be the case - after all she told Ellis that there is a bounty on her head, but not that she is trying to collect it. That, and her personality definitely doesn't seem fitting for a bounty hunter. There is more to her than meets the eye.
As for this being Madlax/Noir copycat as mentioned by few people here - haven't seen either of them(and not planning to in any foreseeable future), so i couldn't care less and it does not bother me.
Will be following this one.
Also i don't exactly follow Nadi's reasoning - just why did she decide to help Ellis escape so suddenly, if she is supposed to be "hunting" her? Unless she wanted to find Ellis for some other reason, which i think might be the case - after all she told Ellis that there is a bounty on her head, but not that she is trying to collect it. That, and her personality definitely doesn't seem fitting for a bounty hunter. There is more to her than meets the eye.
Yes. In fact, I really have no idea why people are assuming she's a bounty hunter. There's no indication of that at all, other than her skill with guns. To me, it feels like someone hired her to be a bodyguard for Ellis. Possibly Rosenburg, as another way of keeping tabs on the "project."
Well, either way, it's pretty obvious that Nadi's also a somewhat mysterious character at this point.
Yes. In fact, I really have no idea why people are assuming she's a bounty hunter. There's no indication of that at all, other than her skill with guns. To me, it feels like someone hired her to be a bodyguard for Ellis. Possibly Rosenburg, as another way of keeping tabs on the "project."
That sounds MUCH more plausible than some other theories that I've heard. Nadi could very well be hired "insurance" for Ellis by someone who wants to make sure that Project Leviathan isn't harmed. It might get a bit dicey for Nadi, though, if her employer really is part of the "Evil" contingent. Lots of angst, soul-searching, yadda yadda yadda that Noir was known for. I can't wait! :D
Yes. In fact, I really have no idea why people are assuming she's a bounty hunter. There's no indication of that at all, other than her skill with guns. To me, it feels like someone hired her to be a bodyguard for Ellis. Possibly Rosenburg, as another way of keeping tabs on the "project."
The director/creator/whatever of the show calls her a bounty hunter... I read an article about the show in some anime mag.
The director/creator/whatever of the show calls her a bounty hunter... I read an article about the show in some anime mag.
Well, that answers that.
Goofus Maximus
2007-04-09, 15:38
Well, she did call those other hunters, who got caught by border security, "amateurs", which gave the impression that she was a pro.
Also, it seemed like she was looking for the reward, till she heard the old woman's story...
brightman
2007-04-09, 17:18
I thought the episode showed that Nadi was indeed after the award, considering the line towards the end of the episode where she says that Ellis should "come with her after you find what you're looking for" in return for her accompanying Ellis on her journey south.
Judging from the episode itself, Nadi does not like to kill (she, unlike Mireille, Kirika, Madlax, etc. did not kill a single person this episode). So it could be that all along she was just trying to get Ellis to go with her voluntarily and help her get money (instead of kidnapping/killing her to do the same). So I'm guessing that the plan to get her bounty didn't change, but she's just taking a detour along the way.
I do agree, however, that there's probably some deeper conspiracy involved.
just watched ep 02 and is that a pan flute i hear in the music during the cafe scene? that music sounded more geographically appropriate. there's some maid looking cosplay (okay they're waitresses). and the blond guy that's following them became a total perve when he saw ellis in that outfit. and not just a little bit of a perv. i think he may have been pleasuring himself while taping her on his camcorder....
there's a lot of strange sideways and upside down framing in this ep. it's visually quite interesting but i had to go back a couple of time because i couldn't figure out what i was seeing at first...
It seems I was right about Nadi - it turns out she works for Jodie who told her to protect Ellis.
LA is one seriously fucked up dude, obsessed with Ellis.
Nadi thinks Lirio is a boy?!
The end was very moving, with Nadi lying and pretending she had shot that bounty hunter.
Nadi thinks Lirio is a boy?!When did she say that? I heard Nadi say, "Oyako ka ne...?" ("Are they parent and child...?") but that was it.
When did she say that? I heard Nadi say, "Oyako ka ne...?" ("Are they parent and child...?") but that was it.
That makes sense, I thought she said "Bouya ko ka ne?" but now that I heard it again, you are right.
i'm glad someone corrected you. that would have confused a lot of people! :P
i knew Nadi was not a bounty hunter! (not in the way people were saying anyway)
EDIT: if anyone has watched both subs out now, i would like to know differences, opinions, etc.
mintyfresh
2007-04-10, 09:53
On episode 2..
Oh wow, who needs table corners when you have fire?
Overall, a good episode (even if it was a littler more moe than I would have expected from this show), I'm starting to like the two main girls a lot. But still...
I feel like such a voyeur...
prince leon
2007-04-10, 10:25
Episode 2 summary+thoughts (http://kzi.animeblogger.net/2007/04/10/el-cazador-de-la-bruja-ep-2/)
Pretty good episode. I like this "case story" format that they used for this week's episode. More questions are raised concerning both Nadi's and Ellis' pasts. That said, I'd like to know what happened to Nadi in the past as she's shown crying twice in this episode. Once as a child and then another time at the end after she took the blame for killing that bounty hunter.
On a side note, she looks rather adorable while crying. ^^
Carrie Asagiri
2007-04-10, 13:40
Well, I just watched the first episode yesterday and I watch it again today. I just love it. I really enjoyed the other two series of Girls with Guns from Bee Train, so I was really excited to see this one.
The concept of thermodinamyc around Ellis is great.
And about Wiñay Marka is an Ican legend. This place that could translated as "Eternal City" in the legend was place similar to a paradise like Shangri La or Shamballa where there were no wars, hungry and ills. It was placed in the Lake Titicaca and all that place was protected by the Apu, some kind of God. The habitants of Wiñay Marka lived in peace but they were forbidden to go to one of the mountains where the Apu was living. But then came an evil being who told them that if they were to that mountain they would gain great powers. So they were to there and the Apu send some pumas to kill them all.
Now, I'll wait till the fansubbed version of the second episode. I think that this series will be one of the best of the spring season.
Well, I just watched the first episode yesterday and I watch it again today. I just love it. I really enjoyed the other two series of Girls with Guns from Bee Train, so I was really excited to see this one.
The concept of thermodinamyc around Ellis is great.
And about Wiñay Marka is an Ican legend. This place that could translated as "Eternal City" in the legend was place similar to a paradise like Shangri La or Shamballa where there were no wars, hungry and ills. It was placed in the Lake Titicaca and all that place was protected by the Apu, some kind of God. The habitants of Wiñay Marka lived in peace but they were forbidden to go to one of the mountains where the Apu was living. But then came an evil being who told them that if they were to that mountain they would gain great powers. So they were to there and the Apu send some pumas to kill them all.
Hmm, what I found was that Winay Marka is actually the Quechuan name for Lake Titicaca:
The origin of the name Titicaca is unknown. It has been translated as "Rock Puma", allegedly because of its resemblance to the shape of a puma hunting a rabbit, combining words from the local languages Quechua and Aymara, and as "Crag of Lead". Locally, the lake goes by several names. Because the southeast quarter of the lake is separate from the main body (connected only by the Strait of Tiquina), the Bolivians call it Lago Huiñaymarca (Quechua: Wiñay Marka) and the larger part Lago Chucuito. In Peru, these smaller and larger parts are referred to as Lago Pequeño and Lago Grande, respectively.
I've not yet seen any information using this name in an Incan legend, other than in Andean legends, it's considered to be the origin of the Incas: Manco Capac was the legendary founder of the Inca Dynasty in Peru and the Cuzco Dynasty at Cuzco. The legends and history surrounding this mythical figure are very jumbled, especially those concerning his rule at Cuzco and his birth/rising. In one legend, he was the son of Tici Viracocha. In another, he was brought up from the depths of Lake Titicaca by the sun god Inti. However, commoners were not allowed to speak the name of Viracocha, which is possibly an explanation for the need for two foundation legends rather than just the first.
There were also several myths about Manco Capac and his coming to power. In one myth, Manco Capac and his brother Pachacamac were sons of the sun god Inti. Manco Capac, himself, was worshiped as a fire and sun god. According to this Inti legend, Manco Capac and his siblings were sent up to the earth by the sun god and emerged from the cave of Pacaritambo carrying a golden staff called ‘tapac-yauri’. They were instructed to create a Temple of the Sun in the spot where the staff sank into the earth to honor the sun god Inti, their father. To get to Cuzco, where they built the temple, they traveled via underground caves. During the journey, one of Manco’s brothers, and possibly a sister, were turned to stone (huaca).
In another version of this legend, instead of emerging from a cave in Cuzco, the siblings emerged from the waters of Lake Titicaca.
In the Tici Virachocha legend, Manco Capac was the son of Tici Viracocha of Pacari-Tampu, today known as Pacaritambo, which is 25 km south of Cuzco. He and his brothers (Ayar Anca,Ayar Cachi, and Ayar Uchu); and sisters (Mama Ocllo, Mama Huaco, Mama Raua, and Mama Cura) lived near Cuzco at Paccari-Tampu, and uniting their people and the ten ayllu they encountered in their travels to conquer the tribes of the Cuzco Valley. This legend also incorporates the golden staff, which is thought to have been given to Manco Capac by his father. Accounts vary, but according to some versions of the legend, the young Manco jealously betrayed his older brothers, killed them, and then became the sole ruler of Cuzco.
I'm not sure how Apo fits into all of this.
I<3killerloli's
2007-04-11, 21:13
Offtopic, but any news on the OST yet?
Carrie Asagiri
2007-04-11, 22:52
Hmm, what I found was that Winay Marka is actually the Quechuan name for Lake Titicaca:
I've not yet seen any information using this name in an Incan legend, other than in Andean legends, it's considered to be the origin of the Incas:
I'm not sure how Apo fits into all of this.
Well Andean legends are Ican lengends. Icans live in the Andes in Perú. I'm talking about religion and mythology not about historical legends. The Apu Qullana Awki is the Creator God, he made the whole Universe and the Earth and all on it. When he finished with this work he retired to a mountain. And the place where now is the Lake Titicaca was Wiñay Marka, a paradise place.
http://www.asociacion.ciap.org/IMG/pdf/Valle_Winay_Marka.pdf.
In this pdf there is this explanation, sorry is in Spanish. The main and most accurate material about these legends is all in Spanish. I'm Latinamerican and I know a bit about these things, mythology is something I love. And we study this in school too.
In this pdf there is this explanation, sorry is in Spanish. The main and most accurate material about these legends is all in Spanish. I'm Latinamerican and I know a bit about these things, mythology is something I love. And we study this in school too.
You'll have to please pardon me if I don't take your being Latin American as being proof positive that you know all there is to know about Incan mythos. I'm American but that doesn't mean that I know, or am aware of, all of the American mythology, folklore, etc. Hence the reason why I tend to do my own research. No worries about the language. My Spanish is fair enough that I think I can muddle through it.
Perhaps you might translate it for others to read?
theacefrehley
2007-04-12, 09:04
You'll have to please pardon me if I don't take your being Latin American as being proof positive that you know all there is to know about Incan mythos. I'm American but that doesn't mean that I know, or am aware of, all of the American mythology, folklore, etc. Hence the reason why I tend to do my own research. No worries about the language. My Spanish is fair enough that I think I can muddle through it.
Perhaps you might translate it for others to read?
http://www.asociacion.ciap.org/IMG/pdf/Valle_Winay_Marka.pdf
Let me try a bit:
Valley of Wiñay Marka Legend
Titicaca Lake Today
http://www.ciap.org
Oral tradition gathered by VICTOR OCHOA
Through the banks of the Lake of Titicaca, there's a legend that says that the creation of the world lasted for many centuries and, during this time, Apu Qullana Awki created the Universe: The Earth, the sky, the seas, rivers, lakes, animals, the plants, the people, the stars, etc.
When he finished creating the world went away to live in one of the highest mountains of the plateau, located around the lake; though, left a commandment to the people.
In those times, all that now occupies the Titicaca lake was a paradise called Wiñay Marka (Eternal City), where there were no hatred, envy, nor quarrel among the men.
It was a beautifull valley. The only thing people had to obey was the commandment of Apu, that was not to climb or to escale the holy mountain, where Apu lived, and that stood out by the flames that burned in the top of that mountain.
However, one day the people, urged by Awqa (an evil being), climbed the mountain that shielded the whole Sacred Valley. The Awqa made the people believe that, reaching the top of the mountain, they would turn into superior beings, on the same level or even higher than the Apu Oullana Awki.
Then, because of this desobedience Apu made many Pumas come out of the caves that devoured the people. It was all a slaughter that made lakes of blood to spill.
Facing this scenario, father Sun inconsolably cried for 40 days and 40 nights; The tears of the Sun had formed a huge lake, that drowned all the pumas that had killed the people.
From this wreckage, only a few made out of it alive, and they said:
Qaqa titinakawa (They're grey pumas). Thus, the lake and its name was born.
(Gathered at Jisk'ata island, Puno.)
Victor Ochoa Villanueva
mintyfresh
2007-04-12, 10:57
Offtopic, but any news on the OST yet?
Not yet. The first one should probably be out around June, though.
http://www.asociacion.ciap.org/IMG/pdf/Valle_Winay_Marka.pdf
Let me try a bit:
Valley of Wiñay Marka Legend
Titicaca Lake Today
http://www.ciap.org
Oral tradition gathered by VICTOR OCHOA
Through the banks of the Lake of Titicaca, there's a legend that says that the creation of the world lasted for many centuries and, during this time, Apu Qullana Awki created the Universe: The Earth, the sky, the seas, rivers, lakes, animals, the plants, the people, the stars, etc.
When he finished creating the world went away to live in one of the highest mountains of the plateau, located around the lake; though, left a commandment to the people.
In those times, all that now occupies the Titicaca lake was a paradise called Wiñay Marka (Eternal City), where there were no hatred, envy, nor quarrel among the men.
It was a beautifull valley. The only thing people had to obey was the commandment of Apu, that was not to climb or to escale the holy mountain, where Apu lived, and that stood out by the flames that burned in the top of that mountain.
However, one day the people, urged by Awqa (an evil being), climbed the mountain that shielded the whole Sacred Valley. The Awqa made the people believe that, reaching the top of the mountain, they would turn into superior beings, on the same level or even higher than the Apu Oullana Awki.
Then, because of this desobedience Apu made many Pumas come out of the caves that devoured the people. It was all a slaughter that made lakes of blood to spill.
Facing this scenario, father Sun inconsolably cried for 40 days and 40 nights; The tears of the Sun had formed a huge lake, that drowned all the pumas that had killed the people.
From this wreckage, only a few made out of it alive, and they said:
Qaqa titinakawa (They're grey pumas). Thus, the lake and its name was born.
(Gathered at Jisk'ata island, Puno.)
Victor Ochoa Villanueva
Nice job :cool: Thanks for doing that!
Carrie Asagiri
2007-04-12, 17:54
You'll have to please pardon me if I don't take your being Latin American as being proof positive that you know all there is to know about Incan mythos. I'm American but that doesn't mean that I know, or am aware of, all of the American mythology, folklore, etc. Hence the reason why I tend to do my own research. No worries about the language. My Spanish is fair enough that I think I can muddle through it.
Perhaps you might translate it for others to read?
I'm not saying that being Latinamerican is the only reason to me to know about Ican mythology, but happens that besides that fact I've been studying this at school and later at Uni in my antropology researches ;)
And theacefrehley great job doing the translation. Thank you, I really wouldn't have the time.
SeijiSensei
2007-04-12, 21:00
I didn't finish watching either Madlax or Noir, but I don't remember any of the main characters in those shows having "special powers" the way Ellis does. I generally prefer shows where the humans are human and have to deal with their human limitations. Unfortunately even shows in the "action" genre with completely human protagonists still require us to believe that the heroines are supernaturally impervious to the gunshots of their opponents. (Well, okay, Nadi got grazed, but really -- they faced about a dozen armed killers and that's the sum total of their injuries? Of course it always helps when the enemies behave honorably so that that only one or two them attack at the same time. This behavior seems especially common in samurai shows; maybe it's a Japanese honor thing?) Not only do the other BeeTrain heroines fit this model, but protagonists like Black Lagoon's Revy and Roberta also seem to come equipped with invisible magic shields.
I, too, was puzzled by Nadi's motivation and decided that we're supposed to wait until later to find out what she's up to. The notion of Nadi's being assigned as a protectress for Ellis does seem more plausible than the simpler bounty-hunter explanation though.
Carrie Asagiri
2007-04-12, 23:12
Well in Madlax there is a bit of paranormal thing, not in the same way than El Cazador, but is more "fantastic" than Noir.
I don't have problems with stories where the character isn't just normal, I think that will be interesting how they will deal with the "magical concept" of Maxwell's Demon or the Ican legends.
And about Revy and Roberta from Black Lagoon, even when this series is pretty normal because you wont find nobody with powers or something else, is still an anime series. BL reminds me to the action movies from Hong Kong, where the bullets seems to be flying outside the screen and the main characters are always fine. I so love it :D.
Just watched the second episode... it was even worse than the first one.
It's just so... contrived. And none of the characters are appealing in the least.
A list of crappiness:
-The psycho kid uses a coyote carcass to conceal his presence... wth?!
-Ellis has an orgasm while the bike is burning and the kid joins in... wth?!
-The writers couldn't just give the cafe lady a backstory, they had to resolve it within the same episode... so touching! :uhoh:
-Nadi continues to be annoying, contradictory and unbelievable
-Ellis is boring and evokes no empathy
-Nadi was real subtle in her acting at the end there wasn't she? I particularly liked the cafe lady's "oh but shouldn't we tell her?" idiocy at the end... ugh.
-Not only is the fluff of this anime annoying, but all the hints at the plot is totally uninteresting, and the villains! They annoy me already. (especially that kid)
The writers couldn't just give the cafe lady a backstory, they had to resolve it within the same episode...
And this is wrong because...? Don't tell me you hate all episodic side stories. If you think the story itself sucked, fair enough, it was a bit too coincidental for my taste (yet it did move me quite a bit) but just because things got a resolution in just one episode is hardly in itself a reason to complain.
Nadi continues to be annoying, contradictory and unbelievable
Why do you think she is contradictory?
Anyway, the music in the end of the episode is amazing and Dark Jodie is very cool, even though her glasses turning relfective and white before her cryptic remark is quite the anime cliche indeed. ;)
Magallanes
2007-04-13, 06:32
Just watched the second episode... it was even worse than the first one.
It's just so... contrived. And none of the characters are appealing in the least.
A list of crappiness:
-The psycho kid uses a coyote carcass to conceal his presence... wth?!
-Ellis has an orgasm while the bike is burning and the kid joins in... wth?!
-The writers couldn't just give the cafe lady a backstory, they had to resolve it within the same episode... so touching! :uhoh:
-Nadi continues to be annoying, contradictory and unbelievable
-Ellis is boring and evokes no empathy
-Nadi was real subtle in her acting at the end there wasn't she? I particularly liked the cafe lady's "oh but shouldn't we tell her?" idiocy at the end... ugh.
-Not only is the fluff of this anime annoying, but all the hints at the plot is totally uninteresting, and the villains! They annoy me already. (especially that kid)
thanks, i want to hear this kind of comments prior to download a few episodes and find that this anime is just crap.
BaronNoir
2007-04-13, 08:47
Bee Train shows are an love or hate affair.
And...I love El Cazador ! I like the light hearted aspect (c'mon, guys, maid outfits), that is not overdone.
As for the fact that Ellis have an...hell ouf of a time...using magic, it's a bit disturbing, sure. Intriguing too.
Psst: I think that there is some cultural allusions in this, too. I find it peculiar, for instance, that in this episode appears TWO things strongly recalling recent south-american movies.
Frida. Frida Khalo, anyone ?
Motorcycle guys. Motorcycle Diaries ?
Second episode was good, and i mean really good. I can see such great things to come from this series. It'll be interesting to find more about Nadi and why she became a bounty hunter -- oh, and it helps that she's first class moe. <3
Does anyone know the name of the guy thats stalking Ellis? He's like best character ever material for me. :3
Does anyone know the name of the guy thats stalking Ellis? He's like best character ever material for me.
His name is LA.
It'll be interesting to find more about Nadi and why she became a bounty hunter -- oh, and it helps that she's first class moe.
Huh? Ellis is moe, Nadi not really, IMO.
Huh? Ellis is moe, Nadi not really, IMO.
Since her (first) 'phone' scene in the first episode, Nadi has been made out of wonderful moe, and that keeps of increasing with each scene she's in. I'm in love. Ellis is also moe, but in a different way.
& thanks for the name --- so fitting.
Goofus Maximus
2007-04-13, 10:49
I don't know why people keep questioning whether Nadi is a Bounty Hunter or not, when she says herself that she likes the freedom of being a Bounty Hunter. It's just that her current job is one of protection rather than capture.
I'm one of the ones that have taken a liking to this series, I guess! ;)
The boy who chases them is called L.A.
There is a English section at the official site: http://www.elcazador.tv/english/index.html
Jody (Rosenberg's secretary) works for CIA!? :twitch:
Episode 2 was pretty good. One revelation particularly, now we know who called Nadie in episode 1. As for episodic stories, this is Bee Train after all, so I guess there will be a lot of those, while giving small hints in the process.
The boy who chases them is called L.A.
There is a English section at the official site: http://www.elcazador.tv/english/index.html
Jody (Rosenberg's secretary) works for CIA!? :twitch:
She is not Rosenberg's secretary, she is working in the financial department of the CIA. And Rosenberg is also working for the CIA.I think the the big building they are working in is supposed to be the CIA headquarters.
I don't know why people keep questioning whether Nadi is a Bounty Hunter or not, when she says herself that she likes the freedom of being a Bounty Hunter.
People asked that question before watching episode 2. And of course, for all we know, Nadi could be lying about being a bounty hunter. Unlikely but possible.
Since her (first) 'phone' scene in the first episode, Nadi has been made out of wonderful moe, and that keeps of increasing with each scene she's in. I'm in love.
I guess our definitions of moe differ then. :) But I also like her more the more I watch the series.
The cactus pictures and corn images as well as the preception of being in mexico even with the music that gives you a taste of desperation with a self sad tale is perfect. I like the way the vehicles in the show also give the feeling of being down there in mexico or central american countrys.
A1 on the watcher scale list for this one.
For me, episode 1 was really boring even though the music was really good. I am going to try episode 2 if it is the same as episode 2, this series will be the first spring anime series that I will drop.
And this is wrong because...? Don't tell me you hate all episodic side stories. If you think the story itself sucked, fair enough, it was a bit too coincidental for my taste (yet it did move me quite a bit) but just because things got a resolution in just one episode is hardly in itself a reason to complain.
I don't hate episodic side stories. I guess I didn't word that too well, but this one in particular was just pathetic, and more than a bit too coincidental. While watching this anime I get the impression that its creators are throwing things at me, which causes me to instinctively duck. If they would just hand them to me I would be much more receptive. (lol, how's that for a vague metaphor...)
Why do you think she is contradictory?
Whenever I watch or read some fiction, I form in my mind an expectation of the characters. If they do something or act in a way that does not feel right it bothers me. Even if a character does something shocking or strange, in a good story it is believable. She floats around in an inconsistent way. She doesn't fit. The same can be said of many characters in many anime, though, so it's not like she is particularly horrible in that aspect. She actually kind of represents El Cazador in that way, because the entire anime doesn't really fit. In a live action something I would say it mostly comes down to bad acting. i don't really know how to pin down what that means in an anime.
Wosho128
2007-04-13, 19:16
I wasn't too fond of episode 2. There were no unexpected turns or scenes worth viewing. It took me 6 episodes to get into Noir so I'll give this the same chance. I like episodic side stories but this just seemed like a bunch of...bleh. I've seen similar scripts for other anime and the scenarios were handled much better. The beginning half was hilarious though; Nadi getting mistreated by Frida was fun to watch.
Edit: Lopez gets cool points in my book. He's very devoted to helping people.
Carrie Asagiri
2007-04-13, 23:32
I'm one of the ones that have taken a liking to this series, I guess! ;)
We are two, I really like this series too. :D
WanderingKnight
2007-04-14, 00:08
Umm, watched episode 2. Really, now, I don't really know what to say. I agree with some comments about the far-fetchedness of the episodic background story for this ep, but for some reason, I enjoyed this more than the first one. I'm a bit fond of Nadie's humorous attempts, even when I feel comedy doesn't suit an anime with such a slow pace as this one (Bee Train should've stayed out of it IMO).
Erm... was Ellis doing what I think she was doing while the motorbike was burning...?:twitch:
Perhaps the biggest hook of this show for me is the Latin American setting, it's a first for me in anime. And the fact that I might actually be enjoying this show surprised me so much as finding a fellow Argentinian here in AS forums--yeah, I'm looking at you, Carrie Asagiri ;).
I really have to agree with wandering 100 percent.. even down to the ..eh?.. moment with Ellis. However, I couldn't make up my mind whether she was just trying to catch her breath or - the other thing - and the weird guy that seems to have fetishized Elliswhile mimicking her wasn't helping me make up my mind either
wtheck was up with that??? :twitch:
Besides that one moment that Wandering mentioned I personally felt that the show had the potential to have better developed/interesting characters that either Madlax or Noir. Only beign ep. 2, though, it's hard to tell!
Wosho128
2007-04-14, 07:57
I rewatched episode two again.
It's not as bad as I thought it was originally. I guess I felt like the ending of the episode was way too corny. However, I see that it was needed to bring some sort of character development for Nadi.
Nadi cries at the end and we see that she really does value the sentimental meaning of family. Hmmm...I like this episode a little better now, ha.
Pellissier
2007-04-14, 11:12
I'm really enjoying this series, which I'm appreciating so far for the neat depiction of the two main characters, and for the number of secrets that must be behind the whole story and until now, have been unveiled just a little bit. The mistery around Ellis herself and her unexplained power is actually very intruiguing.
I like the graphics and the peculiar character design, and also the fitting bgms playing during the scenes.
Episode 2 was not as good as the first (which I adored), but it still was greatly appreciable. I was quite surprised to see an episodic story on this point already, the first part was quite funny, with Nadi ranting about the jeep and then devastating the arcade on the diner. Ellis does eem to keep her emotions inside instead. But then the "lost" daughter suddenly returning home on the exact moment when Nadi and Ellis were there, and hence the whole ending, seemed a bit forced.
However, this is definitely one of my favourite shows of the spring season
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/8757/elcazador2nadi1en5.gif http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/841/elcazador2ellis1wu6.gif
and I'm definitely looking forward to see the adventures of these two girls. :)
I like this show. While was surprised that they placed an episodic story as early as ep 2 (perhaps disappointed as well), it was fairly enjoyable. One thing though...what the heck was with that weird kid and Ellis "reaction" during the fire scene ? 0_o
Either way - i like the characters, and it seems reasonably interesting, so i am sticking with it. It could do with less censorship though.
WanderingKnight
2007-04-14, 18:08
It could do with less censorship though.
If you're referring to the lack of blood in gunfights, that's BeeTrain's trademark for this sort of series. Neither Madlax nor Noir featured blood in gunfights.
PS: And there's no such "censorship", because this is an original work and it's not adapted from any manga or visual novel.
PS: And there's no such "censorship", because this is an original work and it's not adapted from any manga or visual novel.
*sigh* ... i think you understand perfectly what i meant by saying that, but thanks for the nitpick i guess... ( I was trying to imply that the show was having a "censored" feeling to it, not that some one actually sat down and edited stuff. (Which has nothing to do with it being an original work or not btw).
I am not asking for excessive amounts of blood or anything ... but at least show something... a 2 cm big stain would be good enough, otherwise it seems borderline lame imo.
WanderingKnight
2007-04-14, 18:43
Well, go blame BeeTrain for that. It's something that bothered me when I first watched Madlax, but then I got used to it.
Er...and who else do you thought i was blaming for this ? :rolleyes: Obviously the creators of the show :)
I said that I will reserve my comments until the end of the show, but El Cazador is becoming better than I expected.
The characters' eyes are the most noticeable trait on them. I am certain that I am wrong to post this, but I am speculating that the person who drew the character designs for Kaleido Star is also member of the production staff for El Cazador.
I already admit that I am wrong for posting that statement, so feel free to correct me.
Out of the three titles that Bee-Train produced for the trilogy, El Cazador stands out from Noir and Madlax, at least that's the way I am seeing it, since it also introduces lighthearted moments. The more I come to think of it the series is more inclined to Black Cat but without the overly comedy and visual gags.
Nadi = Train / Sven ?
Ellis = Eve ?
And actually compared to Noir, El Cazador is even more tame. As far I have seen the most recent episode, Nadi doesn't shoot to kill her enemies. She's still blazing with a little spunky innocence, but episode two already hinted that she suffered a great loss in her past.
Since she withheld her tears after she and Ellis continued their journey, and it is most likely her heart broke witnessing Frida's reunion with her daughter, Maria.
I am very satisfied with the development on this episode.
There are other people out there with skills and sharpness than Nadi.
It's good to see other female character taking the reign and doing the shooting for a little bit of change and getting to be the savior. Good as well that even if time caught Frida, her abilities have not rusted the least.
I am also as well curious about Ellis' power which makes her the target from the different eyes set upon her.
Her power might be telekinesis, but a specific of PK.
Maybe it is pyrokinesis.
We have bounty hunters tailing after Ellis; we have that Rosenberg crook; Miss Hawyward, which in a surprising move the episode sheds that Nadi is employed by her; we have that lolicon bishie.
Could anyone explain me what exactly that blondie bishie did to Ellis?
He came but only to film her on tape.
And then there was the panting and heavy breathing, and he was also feeling her like if both were connected.:twitch:
My god, that guy's a pedo.:twitch: :eyespin:
After watching episode two, I am even more eager to get the soundtrack. It is the jewel to this title.
The music at 18:25 of eps 2 = GODLY :love: . So pleasant to listen to... ~noir~ kajiura is back with style~
eps 1 and eps 2 is kinda slow pace so far, and it didn't have the WOW factor like eps 1 of Madlax, but everything looks promising
and I'm in love with Ellis :love: , moe~
/edit
and that psycho kid annoy me already...welcome to the Suzaku death list. >.<
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and that psycho kid annoy me already...welcome to the Suzaku death list. >.<
Beeeeeepppppppp. Wrong, his face remember me of Ouran High School.....
Sinestra
2007-04-15, 19:28
Episodes 1 and 2 were pretty good I knew what to expect given that El Cazador is from the creators of Noir and Madlax and similarties are all over the place. Given the fact that i liked first 2 series i can see my self liking this one as well. Other than that nothing really to say till i see more. However I did like the OP and the animation is ok.
I<3killerloli's
2007-04-15, 20:16
Is there any explaination for the "I'll have what she's having" moment with the fire? This needs to be added to Code Geass Tables/Nina and Evangelion comotose Asuka/Shinji moments > . > Talk about turning Japanese ...
inpassing
2007-04-16, 10:53
Is there any explaination for the "I'll have what she's having" moment with the fire? This needs to be added to Code Geass Tables/Nina and Evangelion comotose Asuka/Shinji moments > . > Talk about turning Japanese ...
they're probably made of the same material. lol but hey it's a good thing because that would mean they can't be together.
cylontoaster
2007-04-16, 11:49
I am also as well curious about Ellis' power which makes her the target from the different eyes set upon her.
Her power might be telekinesis, but a specific of PK.
Maybe it is pyrokinesis.
We have bounty hunters tailing after Ellis; we have that Rosenberg crook; Miss Hawyward, which in a surprising move the episode sheds that Nadi is employed by her; we have that lolicon bishie.
It's implied in the first episode that:
Her powers have something to do with Maxwell's Demon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell's_demon). That is the ability to raise and lower the temperature of objects with no work, by simply separating faster molecules from slower ones. This explains how she can raise the temperature of a gun to the point where it misfires and how she can quell a motorcycle fire in episode 2.
BaronNoir
2007-04-16, 21:42
The RAW of Cazador 3 is out !
I am quite disappointed by episode 3, you can well say that nothing happened in it even by Bee Train's standards.
BaronNoir
2007-04-17, 12:10
Well, there was some ecchi. But I feel that this was a dialogue episode.
brightman
2007-04-17, 12:40
I thought it was a great episode in terms of shredding light on the characters. Don't need big action to do that, and there wasn't any.
I am all for character development but I can't say I saw much of it in this episode but maybe I have missed some vital pieces of the dialogue due to my bad Japanese. But I don't demand action, I need to see some important events and these were nowhere to be seen in episode three. Too much of Ellis cuteness, too little plot development, IMHO.
And call me cruel but it's time for Nadie or Ellis to kill someone or at least get into some tough situation that demands drastic actions on their part. Those lame transvetite bounty hunters seem to be just comic relief. If they don't want to kill people as seems to be the case, I hope for some Vash the Stampede type of situation where they will need a miracle to escape without taking somebody's life.
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