Kanon - 2006 - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[xris]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Kanon, Episode 15.

Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for raws.
Try to keep spoilers from the game or manga out of the anime thread.
If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the game or manga, either PM them or use clearly marked spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.


Spoiler Tag ExampleDon't forget to use a title for the spoiler!...becomes...Don't forget to use a title for the spoiler!

[houkoholic]

The ending is just a little bit rushed before the effect fully kicked in, but Kyoani did great justice to Mai 's story, everything was explained and tied up properly (unlike the Toei botch job), Mai is simply beautiful (old and young), nothing else needs to be said. I'll let people be their own judge, especially people who only knew the Toei version.

[toxic_trance]

I think the Mai arc has been handled beautifully. I m completely satisfied with the amount of time Makoto was given, espescially compared to the Toei version. Mai looks perfect in this series, and her story has been constructed well by KyoAni. Its remarkable how KyoAni has kept the series interesting and totally awesome for even people who have watched the 2002 version.

Most of al, i m thankful for the beautiful Sayuri arc. I hope they dont forget Amano-san though. I wish they show her again

[Cyz]

Screenshots (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2007/01/11/kanon-15/) of episode 15 courtesy of Random Curiosity. Look at it at your own risk.
Mai with bunny ears looks really cute :) I guess this is the end of Mai's arc.

[Vexx]

I looked... and now I think I'm going to completely avoid the forums on it til I actually see it subbed because --- well, it implies events that I don't really want to think about out of context.

[Cyz]

I looked... and now I think I'm going to completely avoid the forums on it til I actually see it subbed because --- well, it implies events that I don't really want to think about out of context.
Well, I did say "Look at it at your own risk" no?

[Freeter]

Based on Omni's pics...

Does Mai really commit seppuku? If so, it's going to be one hell of a tearjerker when Sayuri wakes up...

[aroduc]

In the game at least
Mai's fine. Well, as much as one can be after ramming a sword through your gut. Still waiting for the raw.

[Deathkillz]

well im just too afraid to look @_@ will resist the temptation with nerves of steel :heh:

and just a note...plz spoiler tags in case anyone forgets and ends up ruining a good end for a casual looker (like me) ~

[Freeter]

In the game at least
Mai's fine. Well, as much as one can be after ramming a sword through your gut.

LOL, I think one would kick the bucket after turning themselves into a human shishkebob :heh:

[Shinji103]

Omg, I can't believe it! MAAAAAAIIIII!!! Don't die, you're my favorite character in the show! :upset:

Unfortunately, it doesn't look good for Mai's survival from that final scene. :upset:

[Noppapana]

zomg this ep is so beautiful as if i am watching a final fantasy movie
in terms of animation i meant :p

[panzerfan]

The tall zebra grass brings alot of AIR back to me. This episode concludes Mai's arc. It looks like Shiroi is coming up next...
I feel bad for Yuiichi right now. He's been going through one drama after the next, barely having enough time to pause for a break.

[velocity7]

You people make the screenshots out to be way too much for your own good. ;)

[parvu]

Omg, I can't believe it! MAAAAAAIIIII!!! Don't die, you're my favorite character in the show! :upset:

Unfortunately, it doesn't look good for Mai's survival from that final scene. :upset:
I don't think she died since I heard Yuuichi say "Her wound is healing..."

[Leo_Otaku]

Really beautiful episode with the scene outside in the moonlight. Those scenes were so well put together.

As for gaps with the Toei version it should fill up quite a bit for those people who went wtf...in the Toei one.

[panzerfan]

I actually feel that Toei variation is a decent compliment to KyoAni version. Watching both of them give a better representation of Kanon's story.
Yuiichi fighting the monster somehow keeps making me think of Kyon chucking a chair at Mach 5. He survived quite a pounding... even a defenestration!

[Raniie]

Looks like I'll have to lower my expectation down a few notch for Shiori Arc, way down, after seeing Mai's. I just can't see how Shiori arc will be able to shine as brightly as Mai's arc, atm. Makoto's arc was a great warm-up for Mai's arc, imo.


The only scene where Shiori will get her spotlight is at the fountain. I know it's gonna be an awesome viewing, but, I can already feel it might not have such a strong impact as Mai's. Because there are hardly any relation for Yuuichi to bond with, such as having a past with the other girls, Yuuichi has no past with Shiori.

[houkoholic]

I actually feel that Toei variation is a decent compliment to KyoAni version. Watching both of them give a better representation of Kanon's story.

"Compliment" is the keyword here, as this highlights the fact that the Toei version fails to stand on its own to deliver the full story of Mai. Whereas the Kyoani version is slightly rushed in some place, but they managed to tell a coherent and complete story.

[Incoan]

Oh my , 9 Perfects for the episode so far! :heh:


No, the episode really deserves this high score. It was very beautiful and nicely concluded this arc (unlike Toei version. )

Still under the awe of the episode, I'm really looking forward to Shiori's arc.

Ya! So-re! Hey! :heh: /me Moelting

[Meophist]

Mai's fine. Her own power saved her.

Wow. Kakurenbo, huh? Strangely appropriate.

[slidingk1]

*hint watch the previews for the next episode before jumping the gun like me*

[Vexx]

I feel more at ease now... (someone patted my head figuratively). But if I thought I liked Mai before just from the TOEI version -- I seriously worship the imaginary little toon now :) She's just glorious ...

[Knavinusa]

I'm going to have to agree with parvu here and say that Mai is not dead. You could see her start to wake up, and I'm pretty sure I heard the young Mai say "Don't worry, she won't die." Of course, this is only coming from what I could understand from the raw, so maybe I misheard it.
Anyway, this episode definitely deserves a 10 from me. All the loose ends were tied up nicely, and the animation quality was incredible. The cloud and grass effects were like nothing I've ever seen (which only goes to show that KyoAni has talented animators on the team), even though this is their first 24-episode series. Looks like the budget taken from the other episodes were well spent in this one. :D

[Thelastguardian]

I had high expectation for this episode as Mai's story is IMO the best out of Kanon.

Un forturnately Mai suffered the same treatment as Sayuri- everything went by too fast! KyoAni got all the main points across, but since they have to skimp through the whole flashback scene in 10 minutes. KyoAni didn't (or couldn't) let the mood to built up :/
Which is unforturnate because the tragdy-mood feeling is the strong point for Mai's arc.

But one has to compliment KyoAni's ability. Rushed as this episode may be, it contains everything you need to understand Mai's arc.

Back to the story, did KyoAni change Mai's ability? I seem to recall that Mai's ability is not revival- her ability can merely imitate the person she wants to see. It has been a long time since I played the game...

But yeah Mai is not dead...

If you play the game, you will know who good/lucky Yuuichi gets after this scene
At the graduation ceremony, he decided to live together with Mai, who "woke up from the dream" and (mentally)revert back to when she was small, and Sayuri, who promised to take care of Mai for the rest of her life. And the three of them live happily forever after.


http://www.baka-tsuki.net/Screenshots/123.jpg

the stargaze continues....





Anyway, we got a pleasent surprise from the perview- Nayuki and Shiori's arcs together! Interesting...

[Meophist]

Thelastguardian:From what I can understand, Mai's power is desire. She can make things happen by wanting them to happen.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Looked at the previews, and I have to say it looks pretty good. If anything, I'm looking forward to the animated effects from the fighting for the action segments, and the tearjerker parts from Mai's past.

Of course, the preview screenies can be somewhat misleading, so I'll base comments on assumptions before I finally get my hands on the episode. :)

[houkoholic]

Thelastguardian:

No Kyoani didn't change anything in regards to Mai's power. It is exactly how it was in the game.

[Skane]

In some ways, Mai is like a Goddess, eh?

Thy Will Be Done.
Cheers. :D

[aliensporebomb]

Well that was unexpected. My Japanese is improving somewhat but I need to get
the subs to truly understand what happened at the end there.

[Ascaloth]

In some ways, Mai is like a Goddess, eh?

Thy Will Be Done.


Her power is to make anything true just by wishing it so, eh?

In that case, she could well be the original Suzumiya Haruhi.

:D

[Haruyasha]

Wow.. I just watched it and:

The whole thing where they were using her power and showing it off to everyone... and then her house was attacked by freaked out people. :/ Quite sad.

I don't think she dies because Yuuichi tells her to wake up when the sun comes up, and she makes a noise. That plus there is no blood on the sword... which I found very odd.

I'd love to see how the president would react when he comes to school and finds holes in the walls and ceiling that the demon made while pushing Yuuichi around the school... The president would probably pop a blood vessel and blame everything on Mai.

[Skane]

Unless Kuze wants a bloodbath on the scale of Elfen Lied, he will do well not to push Mai's buttons. ;) Sigh... I so badly wanted Mai and/or Sayuri to smackdown Kuze really good.

Hehe.

[panzerfan]

Mai does have a little similarity to S.Haruhi, but she's far more aware of what she could do, unlike Haruhi who has absolutely no idea about it.
I would like to see the other characters, namely Amano and Sayuri, as well as Mai to maintain a continuous presence as we move onto the other arcs. Kyuichi spewing out his woes to them would be something nice to see...

[velocity7]

Unfortunately for you guys, Kuze will not find anything. Yuuichi mentions that the damage disappeared, and wondered if it was an illusion...

Funny that a few minutes before that he thought, "this is gonna result in more than just expulsion" :heh:

[Vexx]

SHnY *IS* riffing and satirizing on all kinds of anime icons after all, ya know....

[Sushi-Y]

I don't think she dies because Yuuichi tells her to wake up when the sun comes up, and she makes a noise. That plus there is no blood on the sword... which I found very odd.
Mai's last piece of power, "hope", (represented as little Mai) healed her wound. So no, Mai is not dead.

Her power is to make anything true just by wishing it so, eh?

In that case, she could well be the original Suzumiya Haruhi.
They do share some common points, actually. :heh: The demons are created by Mai's own power, just like the shinjins are created by Haruhi's power. And both are created out of their owner's negative mindsets.

Anyway, I think they managed to make a great episode focused primarily on the final fight. The episode began to feel like it's rushing a little near the end, but that's probably because they had to pack quite a bit of information into the latter half of the episode.

Watching the anime like this, the fact that Yuuichi happens to keep getting involved with girls he came across as a kid gives off somewhat of a "pushy" or "convenient" feel.

In the game, this wasn't a problem, since the scenarios were separate from each other... I guess this is one problem that occurs when you try to stitch multiple game scenarios together into one anime.

For game fans who already know the whole story, this is probably not a problem though.

Anyway, we got a pleasent surprise from the perview- Nayuki and Shiori's arcs together! Interesting...
I found this:
http://pc.webnt.jp/anime/detail0013090107.html (Japanese previews for ep.15-19)

Preview for next week's episode does look like a mix of Shiori and Nayuki's story. Episode 17 sounds pretty normal too, but...

Is that original story I see with 18 and 19? o.O

[VRMN]

I don't mean to be pushy, but is there a possibility that someone could translate the site linked to by Sushi-Y for the non-Japanese speakers here (like me).

I tried an auto-translate site (which gave me the usual gibberish), but this possibility of original story intrigues me (not sure if its in a positive or negative way yet though).

[Sushi-Y]

I don't mean to be pushy, but is there a possibility that someone could translate the site linked to by Sushi-Y for the non-Japanese speakers here (like me).

I tried an auto-translate site (which gave me the usual gibberish), but this possibility of original story intrigues me (not sure if its in a positive or negative way yet though).
I figured someone might ask, so I was going to edit it with a quick translation, but I guess I'll do it here:
Episode 16: Nayuki's mother, Akiko, has fallen ill to a cold. Although Ayu says she will watch after Akiko, Yuuichi is worried since Ayu can't even do housework properly. After being taught by Nayuki, Ayu makes mixed rice soup for the first time. A warm rice soup filled with grateful feelings for Akiko...

Episode 17: Yuuichi's shocked at the truth he heard from Kaori, and was unable to get it out of his mind even after returning home. The next morning, despite Ayu being concerned for him, Yuuichi walks down the street with many thoughts in his head, and meets Shiori at the park.

Episode 18: After he began to actively spend his time together with Shiori, Yuuichi planned to hold a humble party for her birthday. Shiori is surprised but happy. Yuuichi invites Ayu, Nayuki, and Kitakawa to the party.

Episode 19: Yuuichi goes to the track-and-field team's competition event with Akiko, Ayu, Kitakawa and others to cheer for Nayuki, who is participating.

[VRMN]

Thank you. It certainly sounds...interesting...but I guess the execution will have to be seen before any real judgement can be levied. The series thus far has been very true to the game from most accounts, so this surprises me, assuming that the previews posted are fully accurate.

[velocity7]

Most accounts, albeit some minor changes due to the way the story is told (which can't be helped, of course).

[Anacone]

Ah Mai was saved by the bell...eh chibi Mai :heh: That happened so fast and was explained moment after, so there was no time to cry because I was stunned and just looking what was happening next...

Tamura Yukari used same kind of voice to chibi Mai as she is using to Akazukin... Hmm now I think else couldn't be so fitting to so cute :p

Hmm...I'm quite lazy to give rates because I try think too much and there might come better eps and so on... I can't just decide...

[Mentar]

I can't give anything but a 10 this time (only my third one on Animesuki). Not just that the technical merit is outstanding again, the episode also had all of the emotional impact you could wish for, and the wonderful final twist sealed the deal.

Finally, Mai is whole again - because Yuuichi returned, a critical part which was missing in her is back: "Hope". What a wondeful symbolism. That's what's turning great episodes into awesome eps.

The 10 is fully deserved.

[MakubeX2]

If this episode does not cement the thoughts of getting BOTH the DVD & the upcoming Blu-Ray releases for those watching and enjoying the show, I do not know what will.

[panzerfan]

My reflection by now is that, it is given thus far that a miracle costs a life and a memory. Strangely though, hope seems to bear much less of an overhead. It makes you wonder what seems to be a better bargain to ask for...

And yes, Blu-ray version of Kanon (hopefully not just purely upscaled) is becoming more and more tempting for me.

[velocity7]

And yes, Blu-ray version of Kanon (hopefully not just purely upscaled) is becoming more and more tempting for me.
Where did you hear Blu-ray from?

[Skane]

My reflection by now is that, it is given thus far that a miracle costs a life and a memory. Strangely though, hope seems to bear much less of an overhead. It makes you wonder what seems to be a better bargain to ask for... ~
:heh:

While it is true that Kanon is a show filled with miracles, not all the miracles come with such a heavy price. That particular price is for the foxes who choose to take a Human form.

Miracles come in all shapes and sizes, so to put it one way.

Mai's story is also quite unique from the other arcs... in that epic sort of way. Well... if it had been animated in full, that is. :p I have long accepted that this run is all but a homerun for our dear beloved Ayu( since her arc is the very pillar of the Kanon mystery), but it still pains me that Mai's story will not be told in full.

Cheers.

[guuchan]

I almost thought I was watching F/sn in the beginning. :D

Everything is pretty much well explained, so not much to complement. KyoAni did a good job in telling her background story in one episode. However, I do wish the ending could be prolonged slightly a bit more --- after all those emotions being built up, I consider the ending a little abrupt. Of course, we can't have the "3 of us happily everafter" ending since U1 now has to move on to another girl, but at least extend that barley field scene in the end a little longer, even if it's just a few seconds. IMO, it'll have a greater impact on the audience that way.

It sounds like I'm (the only one) complaining here. :heh: Don't take me wrong, I enjoyed the episode. With so much expectation put on it, KyoAni surely has done an amazing job so far on Kanon. After each episode, I have the feeling "Ah, it's so worthed it to wait a whole long everlasting week just for this one episode". With that being said, I feel sorry for AIR. Game-wise, AIR's story has a way greater impact, but the TV series just didn't do the game justice.

Getting a little off-topic here, pardon me. :heh:

[Vexx]

Just...... um, wow.... speechless for a change.
@skane: yeah, I understand the needs that drive the story arcs as they are but I feel like Mai almost deserved her own series :)
@quuchan: personally, I agree that the game AIR was more compelling in an epic sense for me than the game Kanon but then I've got a lifetime interest in asian philosophy and religion and how it affects culture (and cultural entertainment).

[LCeh]

I could just sense the potential in Mai's arc while I was watching this episode even without playing the game nor having watched the toei's version, but in the end, I think it ended a bit too quickly.

I think this arc could have been better if it had one or a half more episode, maybe coming from Makoto's arc, since her arc lasted pretty long, it felt.

But with that said, it was a great episode. KyoAni did the best they could with the time given, I just wish that more time could be given to Mai's arc. I can't help but feel a little down since Mai's my top 2 favorite girl in Kanon along with Shiori, who probably won't get the time she deserves either. :(

[Julius Firefocht]

This episode is simply beautiful. I was weeping tears of joy at the insane animation, and then I was simply weeping for Mai's tragedy and her return. If I can give a 20 out of 10, I will.

It was so perfectly done, everything from music to camera angle to animation to voice acting, everything was perfect.

KyoAni is blessed by Haruhi's own powers, there is nothing else left to be said. This episode has reached the point when I can no longer comment and nitpick at supposed weaknesses, I can only sit back and throughly enjoy the artform that KyoAni has provided us with.

Oh, and I love loli-Mai! Especially with bunny ears on!

[Deathkillz]

i think my heart just skipped 10 beats...absolutly scared me to death :heh: i think ill need to carm down before writing my opinions...

*breath in**breath out*
and so it ends here...and everything is revealed...
i thought it was strange that everytime mai killed a demon that she got hurt as well...and so it was revealed that the demons are somewat apart of herself...i really didnt think about her powers O.o it was out of this world...i mean to be able to bring your mom up from the dead...but mai got treated like a freak show T_T yuuichi was the only one who accepted her and so she gained an attraction...

and the grain field was actually demolished to build the school on top!? O.o that was another shocking discovery...or was it so blatantly obvious that i just saw completely over the top of it? :heh:

and at the end...WTF mai stabs herself ~ i admit that got me crying...no not another one gone! >.<...but thankgod for "hope"
a well deserved 10/10 in my books...i think the emotional impact is more than what happened to makoto in the end for some reason :/

edit: and oh forgot to mention...viva la shiori! :love: ive been waiting for her to hit the spot light :eyespin:

[Kinny Riddle]

The destruction of the classroom was jaw dropping enough to merit it a 10, Mai jumping from the third floor staircase to slay the (second) last demon was as mesmerizing as the original game CG that depicted that scene, giving it another 10.

On top of that, the faithful adaptation of Mai's emotional and back story scene for scene (which nearly ends in tragedy) from the game more than doubles all of the above. And last, but not least, Bunny-Girl Mai! :love: :love: :love: (Both the chibi-one and the present one. )

Of course, as is usual, the poll only gives 10 points, so a 10 it is. I don't remember ever giving a high frequency of 10s for a series on ASuki before, besting even my voting record on Suzumiya Haruhi. Kyo-Ani continues to impress.

I'm glad I didn't watch Omni's screenshots before watching the ep, because I wanted to see whether Kyo-Ani would let Mai live. I'm so glad they let her live, as she's been waiting so long.

Oh and has anyone noticed that when chibi-Mai stands in the barley field basked in the yellow sunshine, she resembles another loli that is also sword wielding and loves to eat melon-bread? Not to mention everytime chibi-Mai speaks, I can't help but think of Nanoha, for obvious reasons.

In case anyone hasn't noticed, with the exception of some episodes of Inu-Yasha, which was co-produced with Sunrise, Kyo-Ani has ventured into the unknown producing and airing their first ever episode 15 on their own, and they did it in style, signalling their intent to tell the industry that they can do a 24-26 episode season without compromising quality.

Next week is Shiori-chan! I'd be lying if I didn't say I wasn't looking forward to this. :D (Reasons are obvious, no? :D )

Though Mai's arc was simply breathtaking, I still liked Shiori. There's something about her that dazzles me as much as Mai did. Maybe it's her "mature" way of conversing with Yuuichi while still maintaining a cute side, and her gradual change in attitude to her seemingly unchangeable fate ever since meeting Yuuichi.

Expect our "friend" to give this episode an unrealistic low score of 1-5. His unique voting pattern stands out from the rest that I can pretty much read him like a book. In fact I double dare him to prove me wrong by giving this episode the high score it deserves.

[Orchunter226]

One word: Amazing!

10/10

Definitely had my emotions running high.

[i0td]

This entire episode was beautiful throughout, from the "demon" battles to the awakening of Mai's past and all the way down to the final moments in the classroom. Loved this arc. Looking forward to more Kanon.

[Oberon]

At the graduation ceremony, he decided to live together with Mai, who "woke up from the dream" and (mentally)revert back to when she was small, and Sayuri, who promised to take care of Mai for the rest of her life. And the three of them live happily forever after.




After reading this bit about Mai's arc ending in the game...

I hope that losing memories stuff wont be part of Mai's story in Kanon 2k6. I must say although the story is very entertaining overall and KyoAni's adaption is done masterfully, I grow increasingly annoyed with Key's penchant to fuck their protagonists up with either metal and/or physical magic AIDS at the end. It's such a cheap way to generate feelings of sorrow and loss. After the 4th time I seriously get tired of it. First 2 times when I watched Air...
Misuzu's stepwise mental degradation stacked on top of her physical maladies (memories a bit hazy on this one), Yukito becoming a bird who's forgotten almost everything about his previous existance...
...then here first Makoto's descent into mental regression and now Mai reverting to a 6 year old mentally. What would have been wrong with letting her live on as a now normal girl? No, let's swing the emotional mallet one more time for good measure! I know these stories are meant to tug at the emotional strings and normally I have no problems with getting teary eyed, but I get annoyed if it's done in such an obvious way, time and time again.


Well, so much for my rant. If it's not as I have interpreted it and there's something more to it or a different outcome, feel free to correct me, as I haven't played the game.

[White Manju Bun]

Mai jumping off the roof, flipping and fighting the demon = pwnage. That scene was excuted beautifully.

Man if Mai making the snow bunny zoo for her mom wasnt the cutest/saddest thing ever.....

[panzerfan]

Thelastguardian described the bad ending. The good ending doesn't play itself out like that. Believe it or not, KyoAni explored a bit of both.

[houkoholic]

Game spoiler.


Actually iirc, it wasn't so much so that Yuuichi decides to live with Mai, but it was Mai and Sayuri decided to live together first as they both graduate at the same time and will attend the same university (remember that Yuuichi is an under-classmate to them), and Sayuri teasingly invited Yuuichi to join them when he graduates which causes Mai to be embrassed and proceeded to head-chop Sayuri and Yuuichi.
Mai hasn't gone mental age reverse, she's just slightly more cheerful and open then she was before.

[Darcean]

Awesome episode, 10/10, KyoAni is excellent in their portrayal of the story :D

[Klashikari]

Litteraly my best episode so far (beating the exceptionnal episode 12 and 14 altogether)
I did feel the pace slightly rushed, but it guess it was a good choice... no dead time, no pause... just pure goodness (both in action and revelation/feelings)

While mai didn't have the same allocated focus time unlike Makoto, i felt it was 2-3 times much more meaningful. (and all of you know that makoto's arc was far from being flat)

That episode had almost everything (even joke... "yo yuuichi" from mai just caught me completely offguard, absolutely defenseless :heh:)
And frankly, one word comes from my mind : beauty (especially the outrageous gorgeous last blow of Mai against the last demon)

Mai & chibi-mai were really too cute... could melt any stone heart
-mai asking multiple times for food while yuuichi is taking care of her... i felt my eyes freeze, with some crazy "i'm hungry" which was almost as powerful as makoto's line or ayu's uguu *drools*
-chibi mai with her adorable animal love... (KHAAAA, I WANT TO TAKE HER HOME *calms himself ~~* )
Her voice was a mixture of Nanoha and Rika... i was excepting some "nano" and "nipa~" <3

*gasp* not enough word to express...my...praise >_>

gonna worshipping KyoAni at this rate :heh:


i

and the grain field was actually demolished to build the school on top!? O.o that was another shocking discovery...or was it so blatantly obvious that i just saw completely over the top of it? :heh:


actually, yuuichi said it in episode 1 (that's why i had that freaky theory with the wheat field... and talking about it, this episode almost made me fell from my chair "are you kidding me?!" concerning my very first thoughts and brainstorming :heh:)

[panzerfan]

(a combination of ~nano and ~nipa isn't exactly healthy. That would've been the accented notes of death...)

[Oberon]

Thanks, panzerfan and houkoholic for those quick replies. Knowing this pacifies my initial annoyance and I can go back to enjoy the episode as I did before I read the bit I quoted in my other post.

[MidnighT-WolF]

Excellent episode, i'm looking forward to see the normal "old" Mai in the everyday school life now :) ...

Oh and yes next week is SHIORI!!!! Weepeeh!

[CrowKenobi]

Wow! That's really all I can say (other than to give this ep a heartfull and well deserved "10"). :D

I do hope that we get a little bit of an epilouge next ep before the Shiori and Nayuki stuff begins.

:cool:

[Wandering_Youth]

Four words. This episode is awsome!


When I saw Mai stabbed herself I literally yelled out, "OMFG! They went with the Kanon game ending for Mai! Those Bastards!". Think I almost had a heart attack too when I saw that scene, but wait. She got healed and lived! Those people at KEY's Animation pulled a fast one on me! The tricky devils playing me...:bash:

Shock and amazement aside, I really enjoyed this episode. I definitely like this version of the episode instead off Sayuri coming to stop Mai from killing herself in the 2002 Kanon.


Now onto our next tragic heroines, Shiori and Ayu! Can it be done well with only around 10 episodes to go? I hope so...

[DragoonKain3]

^
Poor Nayuki; it seems like Yuuichi isn't the only one taking her foregranted. ;)

But seriously speaking now, I'm glad to hear confirmation from SS/Eclipse that it will be up to 26 eps now, because even then I find it hard to believe they can fit Shiori, Nayuki, Ayu, AND the epilogue all in 11 eps, let alone 9. Me thinks that they did indeed spent WAAAYY too much time with Makoto.



As for the episode, by far and away the best episode of the series. I rarely give out scores, but definitely this is a 10 for me. Highlights include
- Action scenes, most particularly the lets jump from 3 stories high slash
- Loli Mai (who IMO pwns all other loli versions of the other girls, mainly because of the bunny ears)
- Bunny eared teenage Mai
- Suicide scene, because it was her own fault that the demons are there, ergo the reason why Sayuri and Yuuichi got hurt, thus the reason why she stabbed herself (or at least that's what I gather)
- I actually cried at the final scene when 'hope' faded away, and it takes a whole darn lot for anything to make me cry


As for the preview, I sense impending doom from hearing Ayu's "Akiko-san ga.... Akiko-san ga..." Props to Horie Yui, which shows yet again how great a seiyuu she is.

[Pellissier]

Wonderful episode, especially because it explained a lot of things I hadn't understood before.

Another 10.. heh .. they're becoming quite a number I've given now, after those I gave to episodes 8-10-12-14.
Usually I try to be strict on tens for single episodes, but probably this is the case it can't just be helped ^^

Oh, I'm pleased to see Shiori incoming, she's probably my favourite lady of the group. Delicate, classy, well mannered, beautiful, she appeals a lot to me :)

[tritoch]

Heh. End of my favorite arc. KyoAni did such a great job on this episode that I cried so darn hard I am ashamed that I am a man. hehe

Fave scene: Mai creating those snow bunnies for her mom outside the hospital.

[Zaris]

What's this about having 26 episodes!?



In any case, this episode's pasing was a little too fast the first time I watched it. I think the first half was decent; the second half was a flood of information and not enough time was spent on the visual details. However, when a translation was made and after I rewatched it, I think it was done suitably well. A little faster than I would have wanted it, but sufficient enough now that I know what they're talking about. lol


Just a little one-on-one time
This is the kind of episode that you don't see a lot in anime these days, especially when they consist of the harem genre. I've seen Utawarerumono, Lamune, Ai Yori Aoshi, and Kono Minikuku mo Utsukushii Sekai. Each one, there's hardly any alone-time between the male protagonist and one of the females. Somebody's always interupting the conversation, interupting the first kiss, interupting particularly good, dramatic moments and it bugs me to hell. However, in episode 15, you will notice just a handful of characters. In fact, the only characters were Yuuichi, Yuuichi when he was seven, Mai (the seiryuu voiced her younger self too O_o ), and her mother. This is what I've been wanting for a while. I don't need or want others to ask the guy or girl in question how they feel about each other. Their feelings for each other - romantic or professional - should be discovered by interacting exclusively with themselves or with their seemingly romantic partners.

A lot of anime just have to have a whole slew of co-stars, and I just don't think that's necessary. That's why I'm particularly happy with the structure of episode 15. It was literally just Mai, Yuuichi, and the demons for 24 minutes. They fought together, talked together, and helped each other with their problems without a whole slew of other people getting in the way. This produces a much more intimate, delicate, and a more dramatic atmosphere - the kind of stuff I'm looking for. I've failed over and over to find the perfect romantic anime to watch. Although Kanon isn't exactly romance since Yuuichi's tastes shift from girl to girl, it's pretty close to it. This is because half the time, the girls don't ever get in the way with Yuuichi's other affairs. I guess in that sense, it was bound to be good from the start.


Comparing current arcs
As a comparison between the Makoto and Mai arc, the latter is obviously more interesting to watch. Both were equally surreal in terms of content, but for Makoto, the pacing felt slow and unimpressive and therefore difficult to watch. Nothing I felt for Makoto was "Oh wow! Are you serious!?" aside from the fact that she wasn't human. She never really changed at all; she was just a nuisance that wanted her wants met. This kind of character doesn't suit me but it might relate to others better; as a result, I speak very subjectively about her.

Mai, however, had to come to terms with apower she possessed and loathed. This theme alone rings a better bell to my ears. As a person, she was unusual from beginning to end and that helped reinforce my desire to watch her with each episode that premiered. The difference in unusuality between Makoto and Mai is that: one is too stubborn to change herself; as time goes by, she gets dumber and dumber to the point that any hope of character progression is futile. The other speaks in riddles, assuming she chooses to speak at all. But she is aware of some of the most basic things that mean a lot to her. I get the impression that Mai indeed wants to change herself; how to do it is beyond her means. That's why she looks to Yuuichi for support and growth. I get a better mystery quality from Mai than Makoto, and the story was far more complex. I think that's why I can tolerate Mai better.

I think it also helped that each episode was a bigger revelation with higher-reaching consequences than the previous. In episode 12, Mai caused havoc in the school dance; what would become of her, who could say. In episode 13, we learn that the demons are actually after Yuuichi. In episode 14, we're left with a cliffhanger uncertain as to whether or not they will succeed or fail. All the cliffhangers for Makoto seemed pretty mellow. Didn't make me feel all that excited to watch the next release.


Answering Mai
Episode 15 answered all the questions I hoped it would. Although, there were additional new wierd phenomenons that we had to literally take at face value, it certainly wasn't unbelievable given what we've already seen of Mai.

Indeed, Yuuichi and Mai were childhood friends and Yuuichi didn't have any qualms to Mai's unique strength. I guess that can be reason enough for Mai to love him (children can love others for some of the most unexpected and simple reasons), and when Mai created a lie in an attempt to keep her friend around, it took physical manifestation using the power she possessed, calling them demons (I wonder why five, though). Ten years is also a lot of time to misinterpret a memory, and Mai presumed that he ran away, just like all the others scared of a power they do not understand.

Interesting analogy is, if the demons were something that Mai created, her desire to kill them probably meant that Mai disliked her powers. Doing so was a mean of inflicting pain on herself because she didn't like what she was (evident from the strange bruises on her arms and legs). If this is the case, is this also why she and Sayuri relate so well...?

This kind of "slitting your own wrists" led the demons to seek Yuuichi out and ask him to help wake Mai to her senses. Reclaim lost happiness, if you will. If she hadn't, she would most certainly have destroyed herself. This would explain why the demons errupted in full force ever since Yuuichi arrived in the city. This also explains why it didn't tear Yuuichi to pieces in the courtyard as it did to Sayuri. As for why Sayuri took the brunt of the damage, perhaps the power that Mai had would only accept Yuuichi and no one else. This is an interpretation left to the viewers; I'm only suggesting what I think might be the case.

Would you think that Mai has a secret crush on Yuuichi? Dunno. The episode ended before she could say any more words. Will we get around to it in future episodes? I certainly hope so. At least Mai's still around unlike Makoto. Now that two friends are reunited after all this blood and fighting, it would be a shame to let it go.


Final comments
Foxes taking form of humans, a gifted child with an unpredictable level of power. I wonder if Mai will continue to demonstrate or use it or not. It'll probably be at a minimalistic level but at least she no longer has to fight it.

All the strange phenomenons that have tied everything together in Kanon have ended. No more demons, no more sword swinging, no more roaming foxes. It would seem to suggest that life for Yuuichi is about to become pretty normal now (not if Mai can do something about it). But don't take my word for it. If the wings behind Ayu mean anything in the Kanon OP, then I don't think we've seen the last of the wierd and spectacular.

[toxic_trance]

hey..is it true that there will be 26 episodes..causee SS-Eclipse decreased the size to allow the series to fit in one DVD..

Well neway..a great episode...the last part fell rushed a bit...but they cleared Mai's past much better than they did it in Toei. So thanks a million KyoAni. the first half was perfect. The second even if rushed was great none the less.

Warning to KyoAni...Please dont scare us again. The MAi's suicide attempt almost gave me a heart attack. A beautiful episode. hope to see normal and joyful Mai more with Kawaii Sayuri and Amano

[Richard 23]

So probably a stupid question, but why did the "demon" attack Sayuri so savagely? If Mai created the demons with her power and it was revealed that they were trying to communicate with Yuuichi why the bloody mess that sent Sayuri to the hospital?

I liked how the entity that attacked Yuuichi in the courtyard (after causing him to be hurled through the window) was emitting layers of whispering sounds. And Mai's counter attack was wonderfully choreographed. Much more dramatic than the Toei version.

I also appreciated how the reanimated bird flying around was suddenly followed by a scene of a rock crashing through the window. At first I thought it was the bird!

Great episode. I'm going to watch it again now.

[Zaris]

As I mentioned my earlier post above, it's probably due to the fact that the demons, or Mai's power if you will, would only accept Yuuichi and nobody else. When it saw that the person close to Mai wasn't the Yuuichi it was seeking, it had a tantrum (Mai has a tantrum too. You saw it in episode 14). I'm only guessing, Richard 23, but this does seem like a reasonable explanation.

I think the only other thing that didn't get explained is how Mai went from a giddy child to utter stoicism. Do you think it's because, since I presume that Mai was having a physical conflict with herself, her personality was split in the process of creating those demons? If so, has defeating them permanently left her in the same state or has the child healed her completely - mentality and all? I'm hoping we'll get to see Mai at least one more time just to know what becomes of her.

The only fault I find with this episode is the camera swinging around Yuuichi's front face in the first half. As it did so, his spiky hair suddenly jumped to the other side. That was particularly annoying. lol

[Skyfall]

A very good conclusion to Mai's story. KyoAni = pure win :) ... i gave it a 9, simply because the ending felt a bit abrupt... it didn't deliver the emotions it was suposed to in the fullest. Imo they should have spent some more time with Yuuichi brooding over Mai's sucide... her mirracle took effect too soon imo.

Looks like Shiori's arc kicks in next week... i am so looking towards that one, simply because i like Shiori the most, and thus far she has suffered from immense lack of screentime :)

[rogueblade]

That was....
That was....

I got misty eyed. I've never been misty eyed at any media other than the ending of Titanic (and that was when i was really small). Good lord, well done KyoAni.
I hope we see Mai and Sayuri a little more in Shiori's arc, it did seem a bit abrupt for me to have such a clear split between Mai's and Shirori's arc (as the preview indicates), although i suppose it's a given, considering the time restraints.

En-core.

[IRJustman]

hey..is it true that there will be 26 episodes..causee SS-Eclipse decreased the size to allow the series to fit in one DVD..

However, there's been a lot of speculation whether they will be epilogue episodes or worse, recap episodes. Ideally, I'd love to see more meaningful story in these, but I'm not opposed to an epilogue episode. About all that's useful from a recap episode like Air's is the final credit crawl.

As for releases, we won't be changing anything. Even at 24 episodes, ours wouldn't fit on ONE single-layer DVD. Ah well, different strokes for different folks, I s'pose. ;)

Well neway..a great episode...the last part fell rushed a bit...but they cleared Mai's past much better than they did it in Toei. So thanks a million KyoAni. the first half was perfect. The second even if rushed was great none the less.

That's what I was saying in anther thread. ToeiAni left out a LOT of important details which KyoAni, using the additional episodes they had, filled in with that backstory. Having that backstory in place really made the ending of the arc a lot more coherent this time around. The original had much of the visuals (girl in bunny ears in the wheat field), but none of the real material explaining why she was so sad.

As for its being "rushed", well, yeah, it did sorta feel rushed. But there's a term I have for what KyoAni did which made it feel that they managed to tell the story well given the amount of time: Story density. They packed a lot of story in a short amount of time, then paced it very quickly. But then again, for what happened, I don't think you could have paced it any differently.

--Ian.

[Shiroth]

Mai's backstory was told with so much love & care, yet again it helps so much that they're using the wonderful musical score from the game. I wouldn't have it any other way.

It'll be interesting to see how Mai & Sayuri shall be next episode. Its easy to see that Shiori's arc starts next week - so we won't see them as often. Though unlike Makoto they can still appear.

[kingdom_elladrel]

That's one hell of an episode! It gets a perfect 10 for me. Excellent conclusion to Mai's arc. There's gonna be some shuffling around in my favourite characters list now, of course, heheh.

[Vexx]

@IRJustman, Glad to hear you aren't changing the encode density ... two DVDs worth of archive is fine with me. I'm just finding myself trying to decide whether to scotch up the money for the R2 set or continue hoping that maybe/haps this one will break the "drama" barrier and get an R1 license.

[Richard 23]

[About why the demon attacked Sayuri so savagely]

As I mentioned my earlier post above, it's probably due to the fact that the demons, or Mai's power if you will, would only accept Yuuichi and nobody else. When it saw that the person close to Mai wasn't the Yuuichi it was seeking, it had a tantrum (Mai has a tantrum too. You saw it in episode 14). I'm only guessing, Richard 23, but this does seem like a reasonable explanation.

Could be. Or maybe they were just acting the way she expected them to. That is, she created them, gave them power, and they acted accordingly. It seems over time she had forgotten or never even realized until Yuuichi explained it to her that the "demons" were physical manifestations of her own power.

So they were out of her control and acting like the demons she claimed were coming. It seemed in the flashback that the monsters or demons were the construction machinery that came to tear up her precious playground (barley field) and replace it with the new school that she ended up attending. Or maybe they, to her, were manifestations of the demons that she eventually fought while waiting for that friend from long ago to return.

I guess then I don't think it was well explained why Yuuichi stated that Mai was lying about the demons. Unless it was pure coincidence that the barley field was replaced by the school. Was she lying or just giving a childish explanation for what happened to her favorite place?

I think the only other thing that didn't get explained is how Mai went from a giddy child to utter stoicism. Do you think it's because, since I presume that Mai was having a physical conflict with herself, her personality was split in the process of creating those demons? If so, has defeating them permanently left her in the same state or has the child healed her completely - mentality and all? I'm hoping we'll get to see Mai at least one more time just to know what becomes of her.

Well maybe it's because her power made her an outcast, feared by her peers. She had assumed all this time that Yuuichi left because he was afraid of her when that wasn't the case at all. He had to return home after summer break. She also mentioned more than once (at least in the SS-Eclipse translation) that she once had a friend but he left her too, which suggests to me that she lost more than one friend out of fear or revulsion.

That's enough to make the giddiest child revert to "utter stoicism," don't you think? ;-)

I suppose the game explains things in more detail. Unfortunately the translation I played didn't get as far as Kanon 2006 has. Maybe a game veteran can expand on Mai's story for us....

[Meophist]

Mai's arc is a bit too confusing to me. To be truthful, I didn't really like it too much. Maybe it's just how KyoAni did it(I honestly don't remember how Toei did it), but everything seemed to have been just squished together at the end. Mai's actions simply became more and more incomprehensible to me as her arc went on. I also don't feel as if there's a real conclusion to the arc yet; maybe it'll be presented in the next episode though.

I'm wondering how they're going to incorperate Mai into future episodes now.

[FatPianoBoy]

Two questions, an observation and a personal reaction:

Was that Ayu's voice Mai heard just before she met Yuuichi in the field? Sure sounded like it.
Why'd she stab herself? Was that her way of fully embracing her gift, or did the survivor's guilt finally become too much for her?
Nayuki knows everything. Maybe she gets it from her mother.
Mai making a zoo for her mother made me cry. Not misty-eyed, not choked-up; I had tears running down my cheeks. And I am not ashamed, because that whole thing really was that moving. KyoAni gets a week's supply of internets.

[blitz1/2]

I am going to burn a DVD with episode and force my classmates to watch this! (English class?)

[Deathkillz]

Why'd she stab herself? Was that her way of fully embracing her gift, or did the survivor's guilt finally become too much for her?

i duno about the first question but ill try answering the 2nd one ~
i think that she choose death as a way to resolve things...basically she even said so herself that she had "been relying on the sword in order to live up to this day" and now that yuuichi is telling her to put it down she feels that her duty is done...if she isnt allowed to fight then there isnt a point to her existence...and rather than getting in the way of yuuichi's and sayuri's life she'd rather disappear...and thinking back she had no regrets doing it as she already owed yuuichi for so much already...im trying to hold back the tears watching that part a second time ;_;

[panzerfan]

as for question 1, Nanoha(no!), Michiru(nah...), Mai's spirit was calling Mai I think.

[Vexx]

Once defeating the demons... she had no further purpose (in her mind) and a lot of pain built up over the years.... (imo) ... why that overwhelmed the connective bonds she had created with the present day Yuuichi and Sayuri, I'm not clear on, but rationality drowning emotion can do things to you after stifling it for years.

[New/Old]

Mai's arc is a bit too confusing to me. To be truthful, I didn't really like it too much. Maybe it's just how KyoAni did it(I honestly don't remember how Toei did it), but everything seemed to have been just squished together at the end. Mai's actions simply became more and more incomprehensible to me as her arc went on. I also don't feel as if there's a real conclusion to the arc yet; maybe it'll be presented in the next episode though.

I'm wondering how they're going to incorperate Mai into future episodes now.

Ah. Ask me what questions you have on Mai's actions. I might be of some help. At least I hope so... Heh heh. :heh:

[MakubeX2]

So who will be collecting the R2-JP DVDs now ?

Face it, this series will never get a state side release. (In a very long while at least) So the only thing you can contend with are the R2-JPs.

For me, I had the intention of getting the R2-JP DVD right from the start. But Ep 15 just cemented my thought for getting the Blu-Ray releases even just to watch the swordfights in it's HD glory.

[FatPianoBoy]

Face it, this series will never get a state side release. (In a very long while at least) So the only thing you can contend with are the R2-JPs.


I dunno... it didn't get picked up in '02, but that was way back in the day before companies paid much attention to fansub interests. I'd tend to agree, but I've decided that if Azumanga Daioh can get licensed, nothing is guaranteed to shoo away licensors.

[MakubeX2]

I concur that there might be a chance that Kanon might get license.

But taking account that AIR didn't get pick up last year nor the year before and that Kanon is a huge icon in Japan since '99 (The Japanese apparently ask for a million US dollar from Hirameki just for the license to get the game an official English translation ), the chance that I speaks of gets smaller......

[Sorrow-K]

Wow, that really made the Toei's 2002 efforts with Mai's arc look like a giant copout. Looking back, that was little more than a series of events. This was a story about an actual character. It really exemplifies the power of giving characters a background, it makes the characters more rounded, easier to sympathize with, etc, etc, and it even nicely filled in all the plotholes left in the 2002 version.

But, I too think there were pacing issues. Obviously they were set on having just four episodes for Mai's arc, but I felt it needed an epilogue, for one thing, to stress what impact the events have made on the characters, and many of the major plot points, particular during and after the background scene, just swept by.

On a slightly different note, I find it amusing that Tamura's young Mai sounds so much like her Furude Rika. I think I'd have died if she said "niipah", though.

Outstanding episode. I've totally changed my mind on the Mai arc, it is one of the better arcs in Kanon. It just needed to be told properly, which, it seems, takes Kyoto Animation to do so.

[Vexx]

I dunno... it didn't get picked up in '02, but that was way back in the day before companies paid much attention to fansub interests. I'd tend to agree, but I've decided that if Azumanga Daioh can get licensed, nothing is guaranteed to shoo away licensors.

I think the field is shifting.... Having SHnY get licensed was a big step (since it does have a romance element to it) and KyoAni involved ... if I had to pick a dambuster it would be Kanon 2006. I'm still fairly amazed that AzuDa and IchigoMarshmallow got licensed. And I'm still searching for bits of my jawbone from the licensing of Tsukuyomi Moon Phase and PaniPoni Dash.

edit: I strongly suspect we'll get an epilog for Mai and perhaps even some followup. If nothing else, there's a graduation gift sequence (wait.. was that in the game?) and the two young ladies stay in contact. So I suspect Yuuichi (unlike the usual lead if this were a harem series) will check up on his friends.

[FatPianoBoy]

(The Japanese apparently ask for a million US dollar from Hirameki just for the license to get the game an official English translation ), the chance that I speaks of gets smaller......

Wha-wha-what? :twitch:
The game, while it may be relatively popular here if imported, will not gain the public notoriety it has in Japan. The dating sim market is very small here, and frankly I wouldn't buy it myself unless they released the all-age version (which may cut out a large part of the receptive audience here). If it sold more than 10,000 copies I'd be shocked. There's just no way a North American distributor could hope to turn a profit with all this :(

@Vexx: Whoa, I completely forgot about PPD. I restate my statement: If Pani Poni Dash can get licensed, anything is fair game. And yes, if Kanon '06 does get picked up, I may even have to review my cynicism towards the American entertainment industry.

[IRJustman]

But, I too think there were pacing issues. Obviously they were set on having just four episodes for Mai's arc, but I felt it needed an epilogue, for one thing, to stress what impact the events have made on the characters, and many of the major plot points, particular during and after the background scene, just swept by.

Even though I explained what I saw earlier, I tend to agree. The rest of the story could have used a little more fleshing out, though we might get something in ep 16 much like we did in 11 after Makoto's story.

However, Makoto's epilogue was more of a postscript to the story because Makoto had gone away. If anything happens in the next episode, I somehow suspect we'll see a bit more than a short camera shot or two like we got in ep 11.

Outstanding episode. I've totally changed my mind on the Mai arc, it is one of the better arcs in Kanon. It just needed to be told properly, which, it seems, takes Kyoto Animation to do so.

Agreed. They did the storytelling a lot better than ToeiAni did. After watching the events in ep 15, I finally understand why Yuuchi said that there were never any demons in the first place and that she was the one giving rise to them. I think I'll watch it again tonight because working it as a fansubber can take you away from the more emotional impact the story can have.

Speaking of large impacts, I'll be showing several eps of Kanon 2006, including ep 10, which caps Makoto's arc, at the Fresno Art Museum on a very large screen (11x20 feet) with a nice sound system, so the impact will be a lot bigger. I'm going to try to show Mai's next month. If any of you are in the Fresno or surrounding areas in the California Central Valley, come on down!

--Ian.

[Devil Doll]

Mai killing herself and still ending up unharmed left me scratching my head. So the sword was a metaphorical device after all? Then why had all the destructions by the demons gone this time while they did real damage every time before?

8/10 this time - perfect episode with two points deduction for the ending. Looks like they had to pay back the loan they borrowed from episode 14, as for Sayuri's role in this part. Getting Mai's complete story this time was really great for me, and the zoo scene touched my heart.

[Vexx]

Wha-wha-what? :twitch:
The game, while it may be relatively popular here if imported, will not gain the public notoriety it has in Japan. The dating sim market is very small here, and frankly I wouldn't buy it myself unless they released the all-age version (which may cut out a large part of the receptive audience here). If it sold more than 10,000 copies I'd be shocked. There's just no way a North American distributor could hope to turn a profit with all this :(
.
That price is just Key's diplomatic way of saying "We are TOTALLY not interested in doing business overseas. We know our market and we're comfortable in it. Go Away (nicely)."
Why they have that attitude I'm unclear on... it may be as simple as a dismissive "this software is for our local audience. it couldn't possibly have meaning out in gaijin-land" by the one old guy who would decide (yes, I've seen exactly that sort of attitude in real life).

Fortunately, it'll be KyoAni that handles any overseas distribution of the anime.

[Sorrow-K]

Mai killing herself and still ending up unharmed left me scratching my head. So the sword was a metaphorical device after all? Then why had all the destructions by the demons gone this time while they did real damage every time before?

8/10 this time - perfect episode with two points deduction for the ending. Looks like they had to pay back the loan they borrowed from episode 14, as for Sayuri's role in this part. Getting Mai's complete story this time was really great for me, and the zoo scene touched my heart.She was healed by her own power, which appears to have its own consciousness. And I forgot to mention the zoo scene, which I thought was one of the highlights of the episode. I love those touching gestures like that and this one really had a profound statement on the relationship between Mai and her mother.

[Meophist]

It's not that the sword didn't cause any harm, but Mai's power healed her.

[Devil Doll]

So the demon attacking Sayuri literally flooded the bath with blood and Mai committing seppuku worked without a single drop of that red liquid? Come on, I mean, really...

First of all: Of course the presentation of Mai's story was marvellous and filled a huge gap that 2k2 had left open. That's what I'd have given 10 points for if I were able to like that episode's ending.

My highlight sure was the bunny zoo - the one moment of this episode when I actually held my breath. The battle obviously had less impact on me than it must have had on first-time watchers as I knew Mai's stunt down the roof already (plus the surprise was spoiled by Mai's attack on the staircase). The use of the shiritori at this point in 2k2 was something I loved back then, it got wasted in the 2k6 version for the introduction into Sayuri's story.

In 2k6 Mai was saved by "hope" and cured her wound using her magical ability, in 2k2 Mai was saved by finding her hope of a lifelong friend in the person of Sayuri who prevented her suicide attempt; of these two I prefer the 2k2 ending for providing the same emotional impact as the 2k6 version without relying on the fantasy element so much.

And the amount of Sayuri story we've seen in 2k6 (most notably with Sayuri telling Yuuichi in the cafe "I didn't save Mai") called even more for the 2k2 ending IMHO. This is the second time Sayuri fails to do something for Mai compared to 2k2 (the first time having been Kitagawa's stunt where in 2k2 Sayuri had to sacrifice herself to Kuze's organisation); up to episode 15 Sayuri remains significantly underused as for weaving their stories together. Sayuri was my second favourite character in 2k2 - she's just an also-ran in 2k6, almost like Mishio. Sayuri saving Mai like she did in 2k2 would have been the perfect link between their arcs; understanding that is one of the reasons why I love 2k2. Plus ending an arc where Yuuichi doesn't have to be the significant person for once while he has to be that for all other arcs.

Also, that suicide threat of Mai had been used in 2k6 episode 14 already, so its surprise effect was diluted this time (that's what I mean by "paying back the debt from episode 14"); what's more, finding out that Mai wasn't in lethal danger because her powers can always rewrite history is disappointing for me.
This episode showed so much drama only to tell us there was nothing to be afraid of in the end... jeez. In 2k2 (where Mai was so much less aware of her powers) her sword would have been a lot more lethal!

One more point: Aren't we getting too many suicide attempts this time? I count four so far: One by Sayuri (implied by showing her wrist, and explored in more detail in the game), two by Mai (episodes 14 and 15), and one to be told during the forthcoming episodes (we've seen that knife in episode 2 already)? And not a single one of them succeeding? You can use a concept only so many times until it loses its credibility.One more thing is confusing me: What about the number of demons? Mai told us it were five demons, and we were able to count them every time Mai defeated one. Still there was one extra demon in the end. Where does that (wrong) number come from?

Um... if Mai is able to make real whatever she wishes for, she could now wish for Yuuichi staying at her side forever - game over, Kanon 2006 ends here and now! Wait... why didn't she wish for that 7 years ago? Kanon 2006 would never have happened then...

[Dagger]

And yes, if Kanon '06 does get picked up, I may even have to review my cynicism towards the American entertainment industry.
Don't blame the industry; blame the public. They only license what they can make a profit on, after all...

I dream of a world in which Kanon and AIR are brought to region 1 and outsell Cowboy Bebop and Evangelion put together. Unfortunately, even if the rumors about KEY anime being outrageously expensive to license are false, they have to overcome (relative) lack of interest in the genre among North American DVD buyers.

One of the things I like about Japanese anime classification (shounen/shoujo/seinen etc) is that you can have romance or slice-of-life stuff aimed at either men or women (and of course it's okay for the opposite gender to like those shows as well; it's just a convenient way to categorize things). Unfortunately, US pop culture operates under the assumption that women are only interested in romance and heartwarming scenarios, and men are only interested in fanservice and explosions. It's ridiculously ironic, but if Kanon and/or AIR were licensed, the company that got them would almost have to market them toward females in order to succeed. I hope that "casual" male fans in the US gradually become more interested in stories of this nature.

Between Kanon and AIR, I think AIR has a slightly better chance of getting licensed: it's shorter, and its eroge origins are less obvious (whereas in Kanon, much as I love it, a lot of stuff would leave me skeptical if I didn't know it was based on an eroge and mentally made allowances for that). But chances are that neither will get licensed, ever, unless anime really takes off in the US.


Fortunately, it'll be KyoAni that handles any overseas distribution of the anime.
Will it? KyoAni animated Haruhi Suzumiya, but Kadokawa (the JP branch) was the company that decided to release it in the US. I can't profess to know much about how licensing works, but I think it's rather more complex than that.

As for episode 15, I was surprised at how well everything came together. For me, the most powerful moment was when Mai cries over the dead bird. It's a stunning example of what anime can accomplish--both in terms of conveying high-concept information and evoking strong emotions--without using words. Few studios other than KyoAni are capable of wielding pure visuals with such keen effect.

[Devil Doll]

Haibane Renmei got licensed (in Germany even!), so there's some hope for any good anime series...

[Minoto]

So the demon attacking Sayuri literally flooded the bath with blood and Mai committing seppuku worked without a single drop of that red liquid? Come on, I mean, really...

That seemed a little wrong to me as well...I don't mind them not showing all the gory details, but shouldn't there have at least been some blood on the sword when Yuuichi tossed it away? Still, it's a minor quibble...

One more thing is confusing me: What about the number of demons? Mai told us it were five demons, and we were able to count them every time Mai defeated one. Still there was one extra demon in the end. Where does that (wrong) number come from?

I think Yuuichi's reasoning was right: "She was telling me to escape." Mai knew that there were six demons all along, and wanted Yuuichi safely out of the way when she faced the last one alone.

Anyway -- another 10, for all the reasons that have been previously stated by others. Plus one more from me, as someone who's only seen Toei's version and can't read Japanese well enough to play the game (yet): finally, I've got a better understanding of things that just seemed baffling before. Sure, KyoAni went into greater detail on Makoto's story too, but since I already knew the key points from Toei's version, it was just a filling-in of missing details for me. On the other hand, Toei left out so much of Mai's story that this episode was a wonderful revelation to me.

It may be a cliché, but it's true nonetheless -- lately, this series has been getting better and better with each episode. If the trend continues, I think we're going to need 20s on the poll by the end...

[MakubeX2]

If anyone still don't get it. Mai is the final demon because she's the one spawning the rest.

Another reason why she must commit suicide.

[Devil Doll]

I think Yuuichi's reasoning was right: "She was telling me to escape." Mai knew that there were six demons all along, and wanted Yuuichi safely out of the way when she faced the last one alone.But Mai told Yuuichi about the number of demons many days before! Why would she be lying at that time already? Why does she have to know their number anyway if she's creating them - can't she just create a new demon every time she defeated one?

If anyone still don't get it. Mai is the final demon because she's the one spawning the rest.
Another reason why she must commit suicide.So Mai is a goddess and a demon at the same time, able to resurrect her mother but not clever enough to simply wish for Yuuichi to stay at her side 7 years ago? Looks like this episode is more messed up than I thought... I want to go back to 2k2 where a sword was a lethal weapon.

[Jer]

And so Mai's arc ends at 15. I wonder if there's anything left to be said for this episode when the thread is over 5 pages long.
The ending was a little rushed like some people said. I was really hoping for more... you know... for a better closure, but I know it wouldn't happen since KyoAni will go on switfly to Shiori's story now. What a waste.. And I thought that Mai's arc was really one of my favourites. Don't get me wrong. I still love her arc. I guess I shouldn't be greedy.. after all, Mai's my favourite. Overall, this episode did well in patching up the holes left by the previous episodes. It really make sense now.. Mai being herself and the demons.. and of course Yuichii's feelings towards Mai. I hope both Sayuri and Mai still get a little screentime during the other arcs eg: Yuiichi having lunch with both of them in school. Well, just to catch up and amend for what is felt rushed during the end of this episode. Just my 2 cents.

[Skane]

~ So Mai is a goddess and a demon at the same time, able to resurrect her mother but not clever enough to simply wish for Yuuichi to stay at her side 7 years ago? Looks like this episode is more messed up than I thought... I want to go back to 2k2 where a sword was a lethal weapon.
ORZ

You're taking his words too literally. Calm down for a moment here, and think about it rationally.

Mai is perceiving herself as the sixth demon because of all the suffering that she has caused to the others. The concept of the demons, in the first place, was a concept that Mai spawned herself.

Over the years, that concept got warped and distorted as she grew up. Due to her powers, the concept eventually became reality.

Cheers.

[Devil Doll]

To make that clear: I love the Mai arc in 2k6, and I loved to learn about Sayuri's past. The new material alone made watching this series a success for me. It's just that given that material makes Sayuri's failure to achieve anything in the end a lot more painful, and I knew beforehand that I would love episode 14 a lot more than episode 15. But, an 8 isn't a bad rating, right?

[Minoto]

If anyone still don't get it. Mai is the final demon because she's the one spawning the rest.

Another reason why she must commit suicide.

That's fine for us to say, knowing what we know -- but would Mai know that, and see herself that way? She was trapped in her dream and didn't even realize that she was responsible for the demons' creation until Yuuichi explained it. I don't think the suicide attempt was aimed at getting rid of herself as the cause of the problem, but rather a reaction to losing her purpose in life for the past ten years...her whole identity had become based on protecting her childhood playground, and that suddenly wasn't necessary anymore -- what was left for her to do?

[Meophist]

Devil Doll:I noticed that too. I also noticed that there's three cases of a terminal illness as well.

[Meophist]

Anybody else notice animals in the monsters? I think I saw a pig, rabbit, and bear.

[nadare]

But Mai told Yuuichi about the number of demons many days before! Why would she be lying at that time already? Why does she have to know their number anyway if she's creating them - can't she just create a new demon every time she defeated one?

What if she sensed that there was one monster left after she killed the last one? Sure she told Yuiichi that there are only 5 monsters. What if she was wrong?

She didn't know she was creating them. She doesn't even know how to control her powers.

So Mai is a goddess and a demon at the same time, able to resurrect her mother but not clever enough to simply wish for Yuuichi to stay at her side 7 years ago? Looks like this episode is more messed up than I thought... I want to go back to 2k2 where a sword was a lethal weapon.

Thats because Mai wished hard for her mother to get well. And how could you expect so much from a child? Even if she is aware of her own powers, she doesnt know how to use it. There were only 2 miracles that she performed one from her mother and one from the bird and she did those things unconsciously.

And i thought I read from somewhere that the sword couldnt even slice a butter or something?

[Vexx]

To make that clear: I love the Mai arc in 2k6, and I loved to learn about Sayuri's past. The new material alone made watching this series a success for me. It's just that given that material makes Sayuri's failure to achieve anything in the end a lot more painful, and I knew beforehand that I would love episode 14 a lot more than episode 15. But, an 8 isn't a bad rating, right?

<shrug> you support your opinions with reasoning I can follow whether or not I agree ... you're one of the folks that think the 2k2 version had some good stuff to offer even if it wasn't "game source" --- I got no problem with an "8" :)

There's simply no way they can really cover all the game material, much less add in the 2k2 additions -- so it is inevitable (kind of like the LOTR howls when changes were made).
I thought the ending was a bit rushed ... and in fact I'm hoping it really isn't the complete end of the Mair arc... that there's a bit more to go. But it garnered a 10 from me because it is so much better than most of its competition and I think that is the best "Mai" I'll probably ever see put to screen.

@meophist: yeah, I went back and looked more closely .. talk about subtle foreshadowing. Her memories of the animals from her zoo manifesting...

[Skane]

Rated this episode a 9. Surprised? :p Well, I have my reasons for doing so.

Random Thoughts on Ep15
The starting of the episode was fairly benign, with some 'moe' scenes thrown in for good measures. Examples of these scenes would be that of Mai hitching a piggy-back ride on Yuuichi, and her resting of her head on Yuuichi's shoulder.
.
I never really noticed it before... but the demons seemed to be in the shape of... snow-bunnies. This belief was further reinforced when the fifth one bunny-hopped to Yuuichi in the courtyard. Even the 'monsters' in Kanon are cute. :heh:
.
Yuuichi not only has the face of steel and balls of tungsten-carbide, but a back of titanium as well. It would have been better if they had shown him landing on a thick layer of snow, instead of bouncing off a dirt embankment. It is after all, suppose to be a serious moment. :heh:
.
"Yo Yuuichi."
:love: *melts* :love:
.
The VA for Mai seemed to be using her Nanoha voice to voice Young-Mai. Listen carefully. I would have choked on my spit if she had used any of her Nanoha lines.
.
A correction to some earlier posters. The bird that Mai healed was not dead. It was only injured. Watch carefully. It blinked and moved its' head before Mai cradled it.
.
I'm a sucker for sad seasonal transitions. That money-shot of the sky rapidly changing to indicate the passage of time was nicely done.
.
It is never explained where Mai got her sword from. Disregarding history, Mai can be seen( light-heartedly of course) as a mixture of Archer( from Fate Stay/Night), Nagato Yuki, and Suzumiya Haruhi. :heh:

Maybe she created the sword herself, ala Archer. She has Unlimited Field Works, or dimensional rift if you prefer. She can will things into existence. She can manipulate 'data' to repair physical damage and cure people of their diseases. Etc...

It makes you wonder what Mai will be capable of when she learns to use her powers properly. :heh:
.
They edited the ending and left out the real connection between Mai's arc and Ayu's arc. I had been worrying about this issue and how were they going to resolve it so soon in this series without compromising the other arcs, and while they made a save by telling only half the reason... it made Mai's arc that less poignant in my opinion, because in some warped way, the Mai-Yuuichi-Ayu triangle is much more intense than the one with Nayuki.

Remember, Nayuki was a bit-player in the early days.

Astute viewers will notice that Yuuichi left Mai 10( not 7!) years ago in the K06 version. There is actually more than meets the eyes in Mai's arc, and unfortunately, because Ayu is going to get the spotlight, it had to be compromised. :(

Out of all the five girls, Ayu and Mai were the two that were the closest to Yuuichi. Both in the past, and in the present.

Le sigh... I guess I will never get to see Mai's arc animated in full. :heh: This is part of the reason why I am only going to give this episode a 9. I understand their reasons for doing so, but as a fan who feels that Mai's arc is by far, the most superior one in Kanon, I am still disappointed that so many details got omitted.
.
I dread Shiori's arc. No offence to her fans, but Shiori's arc was my least favourite. We'll see whether KyoAni can change my opinion about it.

Cheers.

[DragoonKain3]

While I don't know much how the anime industry works, but from what I remember hearing, lack of interest, be it interest of the game or anime drama in general, isn't the reason why KEY stuff aren't being released this side of the pacific. It's just that KEY's asking for a hefty sum for licensing fees, which IIRC was considerably more than what most other series are offering. Which in turn makes licensing any of their series a big risk and/or isn't as profitable if companies here decide to release another series instead.

Not that I can blame them, as their name is pretty much known throughout the otaku world, both in Japan and outside of it. It's only their right to ask for it, since IIRC after the licensing fees the original studio/company gets very little if any of the profit made overseas.

Take all what I said with a grain of salt though, as my memory's pretty hazy on that one, and even then it were only rumors that I have heard from my friends. I may be wrong on some, or maybe on all accounts. XD

[Ascaloth]

Rated this episode a 9. Surprised? :p Well, I have my reasons for doing so.

Random Thoughts on Ep15
[list]
.
They edited the ending and left out the real connection between Mai's arc and Ayu's arc. I had been worrying about this issue and how were they going to resolve it so soon in this series without compromising the other arcs, and while they made a save by telling only half the reason... it made Mai's arc that less poignant in my opinion, because in some warped way, the Mai-Yuuichi-Ayu triangle is much more intense than the one with Nayuki.

Remember, Nayuki was a bit-player in the early days.

Astute viewers will notice that Yuuichi left Mai 10( not 7!) years ago in the K06 version. There is actually more than meets the eyes in Mai's arc, and unfortunately, because Ayu is going to get the spotlight, it had to be compromised. :(

Out of all the five girls, Ayu and Mai were the two that were the closest to Yuuichi. Both in the past, and in the present.

Le sigh... I guess I will never get to see Mai's arc animated in full. :heh: This is part of the reason why I am only going to give this episode a 9. I understand their reasons for doing so, but as a fan who feels that Mai's arc is by far, the most superior one in Kanon, I am still disappointed that so many details got omitted.

Cheers.

Here's a thought. What if KyoAni left out those details in Mai's arc in this episode.....because they want to hit us with the rest during Ayu's arc?!

In other words, while Shiori's arc is definitely starting next episode, it doesn't necessarily mean Mai's arc is over...merely put in the background out of the limelight, and hence out of the audience's mind. Only to pop up like a jack-in-the-box at the appropriate time, and shock & awe everyone in the process.

It would be a real coup if they manage to pull that one off. :D

[iczelion74]

Great episode 10/10 for sure...however now that Mai's arc is finished I still dont understand why Mai had incite about Makoto's true nature.

[Skane]

Here's a thought. What if KyoAni left out those details in Mai's arc in this episode.....because they want to hit us with the rest during Ayu's arc?!

In other words, while Shiori's arc is definitely starting next episode, it doesn't necessarily mean Mai's arc is over...merely put in the background out of the limelight, and hence out of the audience's mind. Only to pop up like a jack-in-the-box at the appropriate time, and shock & awe everyone in the process.

It would be a real coup if they manage to pull that one off. :D
I can only hope so. :heh:

Oh, and just to tease everybody, there is a pretty big plothole in Ep15. Nobody has mentioned it yet, so let the guessing begin. ;) What plothole am I referring to?

Hints:

..) The plothole resulted because they chose not to fully explain the reason why Mai and Yuuichi lost contact with each other.

Cheers. ;)

[Vexx]

While I don't know much how the anime industry works, but from what I remember hearing, lack of interest, be it interest of the game or anime drama in general, isn't the reason why KEY stuff aren't being released this side of the pacific. It's just that KEY's asking for a hefty sum for licensing fees, which IIRC was considerably more than what most other series are offering. Which in turn makes licensing any of their series a big risk and/or isn't as profitable if companies here decide to release another series instead.


Well.. typically when you ask a price and no one responds, the logical course is to re-assess its market value and offer a lower price. Unless the price you set simply indicates your lack of interest in selling or being comfortable with sitting on it til snowballs go for discount in hell.

back on topic: sounds like there's some consensus (at least among Mai fans) that her story isn't completely over and there may be more Mai ahead as appropriate to the storyline. Personally, I'd be happy if we caught an occasional slice-o-life lunch with Yuuichi, Mai, and Shiori with a couple of punchlines --- I suppose we shall see when we see.

[Devil Doll]

The plothole resulted because they chose not to fully explain the reason why Mai and Yuuichi lost contact with each other.Let's see... Chibi Mai was calling Chibi Yuuichi over the phone because the tractors were already working the ground of the school building to be (being the "demons" in the first place...), but after Mai killed the fifth demon Yuuichi claimed to have returned to that place one year later but was unable to find Mai then... do you mean that? I wondered about this scene but it didn't bother me too much. I also vaguely remember Yuuichi saying something about that place when he first sees the school in 2k6 but I can't find the episode right now... that might be a part of that problem.

[Skane]

Let's see... Chibi Mai was calling Chibi Yuuichi over the phone because the tractors were already working the ground of the later school building (being the "demons" in the first place...), but after Mai killed the fifth demon Yuuichi claimed to have returned to that place one year later but was unable to find Mai then... do you mean that? I wondered about this scene but it didn't bother me too much. I also vaguely remember Yuuichi saying something about that place when he first sees the school in 2k6 but I can't find the episode right now... that might be a part of that problem.
Not quite, but you're on the right track. For the record, Yuuichi made that comment about the school being a field in the past during the first episode, when Nayuki was bringing him around.

However, the school/field is not related to the plothole. It is something much simpler.

Cheers.

[Devil Doll]

Remembering the amount of angry text written on the door of Mai's home I wonder why Mai's family didn't decide to move away from that town and start from scratch somewhere else where noone would know about Mai's abilities... which would have explained why Yuuichi couldn't meet Mai again... but in this case Mai wouldn't blame him for that...

[Skane]

Remembering the amount of angry text written on the door of Mai's home I wonder why Mai's family didn't decide to move away from that town and start from scratch somewhere else where noone would know about Mai's abilities... which would have explained why Yuuichi couldn't meet Mai again... but in this case Mai wouldn't blame him for that...
They did move. That was the whole point of the train scene. Mai migrated to Akiko's town from another town, and that is how she got to meet Yuuichi. Nobody in Akiko's town knows about Mai's abilities except Yuuichi.

Refer to [16:38],
"Because of this power, I couldn't stay in the town that I used to live in."

Cheers.

[Minoto]

We didn't see the transformation this time, but did this remind anyone of a later scene from 2k2?

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7716/flowers1wr7.th.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flowers1wr7.jpg) http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/5916/flowers2cz4.th.jpg (http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flowers2cz4.jpg)

[USCPharmacist]

Could someone pls explain to me what the hell happen in this episode? it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and I think Mai is an idiot if she was doing all these craps almost killing Sayori just because Kyonyuuchi had to go back to Haruh--- I meant go back to town cuz the summer was over. And those morons who drove Mai and her mom away obviously needed to watch some Amerikkan church channel, Mai could make bank there. Jebus I am confuse with this episode. :(

[Devil Doll]

Ehehe... good to see someone really confused by this episode... (I'll have to rewatch it a number of times to know it as well as I know 2k2...)

The 2k2 equivalent of the transformation Minoto mentioned is one of the most emotional scenes of that whole series for me.

As for Mai, episode 15 doesn't explain to us who announces to the girl that Yuuichi will soon be there for her at 15:30 min... and given Ayu's past is 7 years ago and Mai's past 10 years ago, it would be awkward for Ayu to know Yuuichi already.

[Skane]

~ As for Mai, episode 15 doesn't explain to us who announces to the girl that Yuuichi will soon be there for her at 15:30 min... and given Ayu's past is 7 years ago and Mai's past 10 years ago, it would be awkward for Ayu to know Yuuichi already.
I thought it was fairly obvious, given the voice. For the record, it's Mai's power's manifestation's voice.

Ayu's history with Yuuichi does overlap with Mai's history with Yuuichi. The key point here is that Yuuichi met Mai first. By omitting this overlap, it leads to a certain plothole in Ep15. There is more to the reason on why Yuuichi lost contact with Mai. Yuuichi was friends with Mai for a loooong time, compared to Ayu.

I will... cross my fingers for the moment and see whether or not they resolve this issue towards the end of the series' run, but at this point, it is a plothole.

Cheers.

[Devil Doll]

I wonder how these two stories can possibly ever overlap. If Yuuichi knew both girls at the same time, why don't we ever see them play together? (So that Ayu would help Mai protecting the field against demons, for example.) More importantly, if Yuuichi knew both Mai before Ayu,and Yuuichi knows about Mai's ability to heal her mother, wouldn't he have asked Mai to heal Ayu, or perhaps even Ayu's mother?

[Skane]

I wonder how these two stories can possibly ever overlap. If Yuuichi knew both girls at the same time, why don't we ever see them play together? (So that Ayu would help Mai protecting the field against demons, for example.) More importantly, if Yuuichi knew both Mai before Ayu,and Yuuichi knows about Mai's ability to heal her mother, wouldn't he have asked Mai to heal Ayu, or perhaps even Ayu's mother?
Their meeting locations were different, and Yuuichi's time spent with Ayu was pretty brief. As in, one summer-length only.

Also,
I'm serious, scoot. If you're a first-time watcher.
Yuuichi thought Ayu died, and Ayu's mother is very much dead at that point. Heal nothing, Mai was never shown to be able to raise back the dead. She might be able to, but there has been no precedence, and Mai has never been portrayed to be in full control of her powers, or what the full extent of it is.Cheers.

[dojikyo]

Well.. typically when you ask a price and no one responds, the logical course is to re-assess its market value and offer a lower price. Unless the price you set simply indicates your lack of interest in selling or being comfortable with sitting on it til snowballs go for discount in hell.

back on topic: sounds like there's some consensus (at least among Mai fans) that her story isn't completely over and there may be more Mai ahead as appropriate to the storyline. Personally, I'd be happy if we caught an occasional slice-o-life lunch with Yuuichi, Mai, and Shiori with a couple of punchlines --- I suppose we shall see when we see.

Reverse importation. It isn't just a question of how much the Japanese companies make off of the licensing fees. It is also about how much they will lose when some consumers in their home market decide to import American dvds that have 3-5 episodes per disc for $20-30 as opposed to 2-4 episodes per disc at $30-50 per volume. Regional encoding isn't hard to deal with.

edit: eg. Kanon v. 2 from Amazon.jp = $39.268646.

I was thinking about give this episode a 9 but I'll give it a ten after reading this and realizing even though it isn't perfect, it does actually stand well above a lot of other episodes.

[Meophist]

Edit: Forget it

[guuchan]

I thought it was pretty well explained, but I guess there're questions and wonders left behind to the audience after all. I will try to answer them from the game's aspect.

Q: Why was there an extra demon? Did Mai lie about the number of demon from the very beginning?
A: Nope, Mai didn't lie about the total number of demons. At the beginning of the (final) night, Mai said there were 3 left. U1 and Mai killed one together. At the second one, U1 asked Mai if it's defeated, and Mai didn't answer. U1's focus was then shift to Mai's "injury", so he forgot about it. Afterwards, U1 asked Mai how many left, and she said one. She's still telling the truth at this point. Then Mai hit the last one by jumping off from the roof, which U1 thought was killed, but actually it's just injured. Mai did it on purpose so she could ask U1, who thought all the demons were gone, to go buy beef bowls. The reason why she did that was because she believed that upon killing the last demon, she herself would also die, seeing that defeating the previous four had already caused all her limbs to be paralyzed.

Q: Why did Mai try to kill herself? Is it because she was trying to eliminate the "source" of the demons?
A: The game didn't really explain why, so it's possible, since she attempted to kill herself after U1 explained to her that the demons were released from her own power. Personally, I think it's because Mai couldn't accept the fact that all the people around her got hurt, but she herself remained fine, which she mentioned to U1 before.

Q: Why were the demons attracted to U1 after all?
A: Actually, U1 also asked her in the game, but even Mai didn't know the answer. The most likely answer is, the "demons" were trying to approach U1 so they could remind him about the past.

Finally, some differences between this episode and the game:
1) U1 was given a real sword by Mai in the game, instead of using a wooden one;
2) There's a dog in the scene in front of hospital in game (where she created the "zoo"). The dog was with Mai and her mom the whole time;
3) A small detail from last episode: in the game, it's Nayuki who picked up the phone when U1 called back to check if Sayuri has tried to contact him.

[USCPharmacist]

I see so there are something else about Mai's arc that we won't know until we see Ayu's arc. Then I'll reserve judgement until then. Otherwise I don't understand this arc at all and I think this episode just ruined the whole Mai's arc cuz I thought there were more to Mai's anguish then her stupidity. Maybe that's why she thought suiciding at the end was a good idea, cuz if I were Yuuchi l would be dumb founded, probably lol at the end and smack Mai on her forehead with my hand chop and say:"WTF do you think you're doing?"

I must say the part when Mai was with her mom was quite sad but it really worry me about the radiation level in Japan, cuz everyone seem to be dying from Cancer or something lol.

[houkoholic]

Q: Why did Mai try to kill herself? Is it because she was trying to eliminate the "source" of the demons?
A: The game didn't really explain why, so it's possible, since she attempted to kill herself after U1 explained to her that the demons were released from her own power. Personally, I think it's because Mai couldn't accept the fact that all the people around her got hurt, but she herself remained fine, which she mentioned to U1 before.

It's more like that Mai felt extremely bad that she was the one which caused harm and danger to her most treasured people and she can't live with it. It's just a logical extension to ep14 where she also tried to kill herself for failing to protect Sayuri.


Q: Why were the demons attracted to U1 after all?
A: Actually, U1 also asked her in the game, but even Mai didn't know the answer. The most likely answer is, the "demons" were trying to approach U1 so they could remind him about the past.

Yuuich did explain it in his dialogue to Mai. The "demons" just wanted to convey something to Yuuichi, they were indeed looking for Yuuichi because the reason they manifested was because this lie created by Mai was directed at Yuuichi in the first place ("we must protect it together" - the "we" being Mai and Yuuichi). However Mai's power were so strong that only the raw emotion came through and not the words, hence they "attacked" Yuuichi. Very clearly explained in the dialogue.

[guuchan]

I see so there are something else about Mai's arc that we won't know until we see Ayu's arc. Then I'll reserve judgement until then. Otherwise I don't understand this arc at all and I think this episode just ruined the whole Mai's arc cuz I thought there were more to Mai's anguish then her stupidity. Maybe that's why she thought suiciding at the end was a good idea, cuz if I were Yuuchi l would be dumb founded, probably lol at the end and smack Mai on her forehead with my hand chop and say:"WTF do you think you're doing?"
Which part you don't understand? If it's about why Mai's doing all that, that's because Mai lied to U1 that there were demons haunting their playground, hoping that U1 would stay with her and help her protecting that place together. But since U1 had to leave no matter what, so she ended up fighting against the demons alone in order to protect the place, hoping that U1 will come back one day. For the demons, they weren't real to begin with, but then they turned real because Mai wished for it. They are parts of her power.

I must say the part when Mai was with her mom was quite sad but it really worry me about the radiation level in Japan, cuz everyone seem to be dying from Cancer or something lol.
Mai believed that her mom's sickness was somewhat related to her birth.

[Meophist]

I have another interpretation.

Mai never lied. There was five demons. Was. The sixth demon appeared after the five were gone. Mai was still creating demons. Mai noticed the existance of the sixth demon(probably around the time the two entered the classroom), and thus tried to get Yuuichi away by asking for food.

Mai tried to kill herself because of guilt. She realised that all of the troubles that Yuuichi and Sayuri has gone through was all her fault. She believes that she will continue to cause trouble for them from her powers. She believes that Yuuichi is lying when he says that neither him nor Sayuri would mind. That's why she said "Thank you".

[myopius]

Like USCPharmacist, I hope I don't understand this arc correctly, since it reflects badly on Mai. I had been thinking the theme of the story would be that there was some kind of tragic fate which Mai had given herself ever since demons had killed her family/friends or something like that, and which the memories of her family/friends caused her to resign herself to, but if she were told that there was another way and that she doesn't have to condemn herself because her friends had passed away, then it would make sense. I didn't imagine that the tragic past Mai always alludes to, and Mai's ultra-serious attitude and general hardcoreness, was just her own self-delusion which stemmed from an arbitrary lie.

If I understand this arc correctly, and Mai just was creating demons which destroyed property and hurt people just so she could have a means of driving people away from her after she started to hate herself because she jumped to conclusions about why Yuuichi didn't come back and thus started to magically perpetuate her lie, then that's pretty ridiculous.

And of course the suicide is the most strange this of all, since if it's because she can't forgive herself for what she'd done then I would've gotten a vibe for that and I didn't, the themes were just all about despair/hope, but if it wasn't about forgiveness then I suppose forgiveness isn't an issue, or are we going to have to deal with that later? Well, if after this episode Mai goes and stands by Sayuri and is really kind to her and does something apologizes deeply while crying with happinesss, then that's the kind of behavior which I suppose could warrant skipping over the whole how-can-I-forgive-myself aspect, since it conveys the idea that Mai is thinking "what happened to her, I did to her was a nightmare it's best for her sake that we both get past, and although what I did was terrible we will see happy days again" . That kind of deal. Edit: Oh, Meophist's interpretation is a good one, actually. I'll definitely take it.

Of course if there's some later information that changes this then I'll find out then, but in the meantime, can I just have some verify to me that, with what someone who's only seen Kanon 2006 episodes 1-15 knows, the brief summary I just stated is a valid interpretation? Or if there's something which could contradict it that's obvious and not something people only notice in retrospect, I'd love to know about that.

[USCPharmacist]

In that case everything in this arc is her fault then.

Failure to trust her friend.
Failure to ask why Kyonyuuchi is leaving
Failure to ask for his new number, address etc.
Failure to control her power.
Wasting time "protecting" the school cuz the demon respawn anyway.
or Failure to kill the demons....FOR FREAKING 10 YEARS.
Failure to make new friends (except Sayuri)
Failure to trust her friend again after all this year when Kyonyuuchi told her he doesn't mind if Mai is Haruhi ( and to think she is Rika reincarnate heheeh)

I don't know, this episode just prove to me Mai is a very weird person, but not really a victim of any sort. I meant she freaking wish her mother to life (cure from cancer or whatever), she should be smiling. So some dumbf#cks tag your house, so what? Sic your demons on them and make them pay.....or play wow, I meant a warrior warlock priest combo class must be sort after by all guilds.

[Grey]

Her voice was a mixture of Nanoha and Rika... i was excepting some "nano" and "nipa~" <3
On a slightly different note, I find it amusing that Tamura's young Mai sounds so much like her Furude Rika. I think I'd have died if she said "niipah", though.Ah-ha! So other people also thought "Furude Rika" when watching Mai in this episode. The Chibi-"Fragment of Power"-Mai near the end especially reminded me of Rika.

--wait a second...from Sorrow-K's post, it sounds like Mai's voice actor was the same as Rika's? Huh! I'm surprised I didn't catch that while listening. Or maybe part of me did, since Chibi-Fragment of Power-Mai reminded me of Rika. But maybe that was just because they're both small, have long blue hair, and act with a maturity contrary to their appearance....

[USCPharmacist]

Ah-ha! So other people also thought "Furude Rika" when watching Mai in this episode. The Chibi-"Fragment of Power"-Mai near the end especially reminded me of Rika.

--wait a second...from Sorrow-K's post, it sounds like Mai's voice actor was the same as Rika's? Huh! I'm surprised I didn't catch that while listening. Or maybe part of me did, since Chibi-Fragment of Power-Mai reminded me of Rika. But maybe that was just because they're both small, have long blue hair, and act with a maturity contrary to their appearance....

It's true, they are the same person, so Mai is nanoha and Rika combine hahahah.

Mai:"I will befriend you Kyonyuuchi, even if I have to use my hellish tool to accomplish this....nano desu Nipah!!!" lol

[Meophist]

Who is Furude Rika anyways? I'm hearing that name alot now.

[Sorrow-K]

Furude Rika from Higurashi no Naku Koro ni:

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/5834/1154137732822ns9.th.jpg (http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/5834/1154137732822ns9.jpg)

And, yes, to dispell any doubts, Mai is played by the same seiyuu as Furude Rika, Tamura Yukari. Other notable roles of Tamura's include Takamachi Nanoha (Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha), Sugiura Midori (My HiME), Ranpha Franboise (Galaxy Angel) and Kurusu Tomari (Kashimashi ~Girl Meets Girl~).

Edit: (Yes, I am a fan :p)

[Meophist]

Ahh, I've heard of that show.

I've watched about one anime series the past year, so I don't know much about many of the references you guys make. Unfortunally I've got Shuffle! ruined for me because of this.

[USCPharmacist]

Who is Furude Rika anyways? I'm hearing that name alot now.

She can ride on a bloom and blow flame and freezing breath on her enemies :heh: :heh: :heh:

[DanielSong39]

This episode reminded me of AIR TV in so many ways...

It shared several elements - such as color pallete, scenery, the mother-daughter theme, and a zigzagging storyline. It even had a death at the end - though that didn't last. Hmm.

Maybe AIR-ifying Kanon wasn't such a bad idea? It was interesting to see them try something different. Wonder if they might use that approach in the Ayu arc - and make allusions to Ayu/Kanna and Nayuki/Uraha.

[Skane]

I'm not too sure where all the backlash is coming from, since I think it has been explained pretty clearly on what Mai's arc is about. Some points to consider.

Mai was less than 5-6 years old when her mother was ill. We know this because Yuuichi met her 10 years ago, and it has not been indicated on how long she has been staying in Akiko's town, or how long she has stayed in her hometown before being outcasted.

To put it in simple terms, Mai was very, VERY young when she discovered her powers.

Now, unlike say... Lucy from Elfen Lied, Mai got a lot of love from her mother, and it was more than likely that she was sheltered by her mother, so she never really went off the deep end and go totally bonkers and embark on a country-wide killing spree with her powers.

To say that she could have just lashed out with her powers, is to discredit the love her mother had for her( and vice-versa), and Mai's own sense of right and wrong. I will explain more on this part later on.

Instead, she started becoming withdrawn and isolated herself from other people due to fear. Remember, she was still only 6-7 before she met Yuuichi.

Although not explicitly stated, it has been implied that her childhood friends got frightened of her and either teased her, or avoided her out of fear. This is how we get the part of her saying, "He ran off just like the others."

Keep in mind that Mai considered Yuuichi to be the 'chosen/promised' one that would stick with her through thick and thin, because that was what her power's manifestation( henceforth Usagi-Mai, or UMai for short) told her.

So when Yuuichi did leave her( for actual reasons not explained yet by the way), it shattered her, because it broke one of her core beliefs. Yuuichi... just disappeared, and never bothered to explain to her why.

At this point, I must defend Yuuichi in case people get a wrong perception of him. Yuuichi had a valid reason for leaving Mai. It was just... a very unfortunate set of circumstances that led to the screw-ups of not just Yuuichi, but Mai, Ayu and Nayuki as well. Oh yeah... bad times for all of them.

On hindsight, it would have been easy to pass judgement and say that Yuuichi could have handled it better, but the truth of the matter is... Yuuichi was only 7-8 at that time, and it would be hard to judge him so harshly, since it is inappropriate to expect him to make rational adult decisions and thinking at that age.

In short, it wasn't really anybody's fault, and it was just unfortunate that Mai got the short end of the stick from the incident.
~~~~ ~~~~

Anyway, back to Mai. Shattered by her perceived abandonment by Yuuichi, Mai found it hard to make new friends due to fear of rejection, and this lack of social life led to the detriment of her social skills and ability to communicate with others.

Are you beginning to understand now?

Mai's methods of trying to make friends are crude, and often indirect. Refer to Sayuri's account of how she first met Mai. If it has not dawned on you yet, please refer to Garten's impression of that scene (http://www.designchronicle.com/memento/archives/kanon_ep13.html). He scored quite a number of direct hits.

Kanon is not an episodic series. In order to understand the later episodes, you need to remember and understand the earlier episodes as well. Kanon will reward you if you bother to put some thought into it and analyse all the clues. KyoAni has been extremely generous with the hints, and it pays to pay attention to them.

One can also read the Speculation Thread( for first-time viewers) to see how other posters have managed to score direct hits. Kanon(2006) is not some obscure series that only game-players can understand, the main points have been fleshed out properly, and the more important parts of the stories have been animated.

It has been... very consistent internally.

There are some loose ends, but we still have 11 episodes to go, so I am holding judgement on those first.
~~~~ ~~~~

Continuing with the explanation( gawds, my fingers are tired :heh:), Sayuri was the first real human friend Mai had since Yuuichi. Keeping this in mind, you should understand how important then, Mai values Sayuri.

With Sayuri, Mai was beginning to heal; but... she has not let go of her 'inner demons' yet, and this my friends, is where we start getting metaphorical.

As one grows up, one tends to start forgetting the past, especially if it is a sad one. It is a way of self-healing. This holds even more true when it is something that happened when one is very young.

A lot of phobias happen because of an incident during one's younger days, and most people tend to forget the exact reason why it happened. They only know that they have the phobia, and that is it( which is why we have psychiatrists and all that fancy hypnosis stuff).

In Mai's case... her hysteria over losing Yuuichi as a friend resulted in physical manifestations. They are the representation of her desire to keep Yuuichi as a friend, and because she does not realise their true nature, she was never in full control of them.

The 'demons' were desperately trying to seek Yuuichi, but Mai's lack of control over them resulted in them going berserk. They were instead, fuelled by her sub-concious mind and acted upon her unspoken will.

"So why do they attack Sayuri?"

This can be easily explained by the fact that Mai unknowingly affects the demons. We know that Mai is afraid of them attacking Sayuri because she has gone out of her way to not inform Sayuri about them. This... fear of them attacking Sayuri fuelled them and they acted accordingly to Mai's thoughts.

Remember once again. Although Mai does not control them directly, she still affects them indirectly with her thoughts and feelings.

It is only after Mai has injured herself so much, that her powers subsides, and UMai is able to get through to Yuuichi. This leads to the revelation for Mai, and Mai is HORRIFIED that it is because of her that Sayuri and Yuuichi got injured.

Mai places a lot of importance on her friends, and the thought of her hurting them affected her very badly, because it was she who wanted them so badly in the first place.

"Hold your horses!" you say, "Why attempt suicide then?"

Again, we circle back to Mai's inability to interact with people properly. She places a lot of burden on herself, and blames herself often for the troubles of her friend Sayuri( and then Yuuichi later on).

To Mai... the concept of 'through thick and thin' was already broken from her separation with Yuuichi all those years ago. She goes out of her way to appear normal to Sayuri( due to her fear of rejection). Yuuichi was an oddity in that he persisted in befriending her despite her nonchalance towards him.

Mai never had anybody 'chase' after her for friendship before, so she was really at a loss on how to deal with Yuuichi initially. As we witnessed however, she grew to warm up to him.

So when the truth dawned upon her, she felt that the only way to make amends, and prevent further trouble for her friends was to kill herself. Nobody is claiming that it is the right thing to do, but you got to see it from Mai's perspective, and not your's.

Mai will heal( both physically and mentally), and she will learn.

Anymore questions? :p

Cheers.

[Pakxenon]

HOLY CRAP VOTE PARADOX!!!

As much as I love Mai's story, this episode, as said before, is very rushed. Actually, the problem is that they spent too much time on the action and not enough for an emotional effect in the end. Mai's seppuku-act is too spontaneous, along with pretty much everything else in the last 5 minutes. The introduction of Mai's magic is WAAAY too late (worse than Makoto's fox origins because there were no hints for Mai's arc [that I can think of]). Still, the story is very overwhelming and I liked the AIRey scenes of the barley field. Technical merits win: 9/10. :)

[Forever]

Hmm I hesistated giving the 10 as it does seem a bit rushed, but seeing this is Mai's arc anything less cant do....

Hmm no blood. It seems that her power was already working the moment she stabbed herself, thats y no blood. She sure heals faster than the menos grande I saw in bleach 110.

But the ending really makes Mai look bad. Mai ran away from her problems and caused more problems. And it is not yuiichi's fault that he had to abandon her. Though if he had remembered Mai when makoto was alive, he could have asked Mai to save Makoto.

Let's hope Mai really goes back to normal in the next ep.....

[dkellis]

Breaking my self-imposed interdiction from posting in the Kanon series forum (for fear of accidentally offending anyone who doesn't like my "Kyuuichi" and "Kyonon" jokes), I'll be brief. (Also, this may be the vodka speaking.)

I think that the 2k6 version of Mai's story arc is awesome. I also think that the 2k2 version of Mai's story arc is awesome. They are both awesome, but in different ways.

I suppose the main reason why I like the 2k2 version is because I've never played the game, so I'm not too attached to the "original story". In any case, objectively speaking, 2k6 had better quality: I'm not disputing that. Mai and 91 are both much more fleshed-out characters this time around.

Subjectively speaking, though, on a personal level, I feel that the 2k2 version (and I do have it on hand for comparison) gave me, and me personally, more impact. The difference here is Sayuri: yes, there's a gaping plot hole in how Sayuri managed to escape from the hospital and end up preventing Mai from impaling herself in the 2k2 version, but it's the image that burned itself in my mind, the image of Mai looking on in shock, fully expecting to die, but having been stopped by the friendship that Sayuri showed, the very blatant display that despite all that had happened, Sayuri still forgives Mai and considers them to be best friends.

That image was what made me a die-hard Mai fan. I'm not sure if I can explain it in words.

Now, if I had seen the 2k6 version first, would I have had the same reaction? Maybe, maybe not. It's certainly possible, especially with KyoAni's quality.

But I watch the 2k2 version even now, and when I get to that episode, I fall in love with Mai all over again.

[AvianWing]

Glad that other people felt that this episode was terribly rushed.

Well, it is understandable that the subplot shouldn't take out the glory and mystery of the main story, but really... what a waste. It seems like KyotoAnimation is reserving all of Yuuichi's strongest emotions to the last arc.

Like USCPharmacist, I hope I don't understand this arc correctly, since it reflects badly on Mai. I had been thinking the theme of the story would be that there was some kind of tragic fate which Mai had given herself ever since demons had killed her family/friends or something like that, and which the memories of her family/friends caused her to resign herself to, but if she were told that there was another way and that she doesn't have to condemn herself because her friends had passed away, then it would make sense. I didn't imagine that the tragic past Mai always alludes to, and Mai's ultra-serious attitude and general hardcoreness, was just her own self-delusion which stemmed from an arbitrary lie.

If I understand this arc correctly, and Mai just was creating demons which destroyed property and hurt people just so she could have a means of driving people away from her after she started to hate herself because she jumped to conclusions about why Yuuichi didn't come back and thus started to magically perpetuate her lie, then that's pretty ridiculous.


I think you got it right. But really, the fallibility on Mai's part is what makes her more human. Someone comepared her to Suzumiya Haruhi earlier, and I think it is a great parallel. Yes, it is her fault for deluding herself all this time. Yes, she has cause everyone trouble because of her inability to cope with her loneliness. But it expresses her value on friendship very well.

We can all point at her and laugh at her, saying that she's emo. But she has no benefit of the massive network called the internet when she's practically excommunicated by her surroundings. We can't judge her by the normal standards because we have never "walked in her shoes" and experienced what it is really like to be looked at differently.

Well, after saying all that about how her character is not meant to be examined by us, I'm going to go ahead and try to interpret her anyway, heh. The denial of "Hope" reflects her state of mind rather well. Yuuichi, probably the first friend she ever had and the first who accepted her for who she is, left. It is only natural that Mai would despair. She made up the excuse that the demons are invading the barley field in hopes that Yuuichi would stay. Needless to say, it is only an excuse made by a child with little power of persuasion. Somewhere along the line, Mai has lost this "hope" that Yuuichi would return, also loosing her purpose to make up that excuse in the first place. Instead, the demons become a reality for her because she accepts it as her way of life.

Kanon's motif consists of miracles and waking from those miracles (waking from dreams) as repeated in the beginning of every episode. Symbolically, Mai's suicide is the end of her dream(as Yuuichi have said, "You were having a long dream"). Emotionally, Mai was almost ready to embrace hope again, for she thanked Yuuichi--the very same person from which she first lost her hope-- before she stabbed herself. Yet, she was unable to forgo her current lifestyle "I can't let go of my sword. I've lived by relying on it to this day." Mai was consumed by the routine of demon hunting that it had become her reality. So, to one who has deviated from the normality for so long, it becomes ever harder to come back. Doing so would only cause the people around her more trouble.

Of course, I have the propensity to analyze things wrong =D. Still, finally a non-evil character with selfishness! Anime has always had the tendency to make characters' rationale mainstream and acceptable and quite implausible, it's good to have a change of pace.

[Ascaloth]

In that case everything in this arc is her fault then.

Failure to trust her friend.
Failure to ask why Kyonyuuchi is leaving
Failure to ask for his new number, address etc.
Failure to control her power.
Wasting time "protecting" the school cuz the demon respawn anyway.
or Failure to kill the demons....FOR FREAKING 10 YEARS.
Failure to make new friends (except Sayuri)
Failure to trust her friend again after all this year when Kyonyuuchi told her he doesn't mind if Mai is Haruhi ( and to think she is Rika reincarnate heheeh)

I don't know, this episode just prove to me Mai is a very weird person, but not really a victim of any sort. I meant she freaking wish her mother to life (cure from cancer or whatever), she should be smiling. So some dumbf#cks tag your house, so what? Sic your demons on them and make them pay.....or play wow, I meant a warrior warlock priest combo class must be sort after by all guilds.

Your comments so far on this thread tells us a few things:

1) That this is probably the first episode of Kanon you've ever seen. In fact, it seemed like you just jumped into episode 15 without bothering to look at the other episodes beforehand. (and considering that, as far as I remember, you have not posted in any episode threads before this one, it's highly possible that this is the case)

2) Because of this, naturally you have absolutely no understanding whatsoever about the actual plot.

3) And because you have no understanding of the plot, it therefore stands to reason that you have absolutely no empathy for Mai's life story, and thus no sympathy for her tragedy.

4) In other words, you entirely failed to understand this episode because you didn't do your homework on the Kanon plotlines.

5) Because you didn't do your homework and thus have no knowledge nor understanding on the actual state of the plot, you naturally made the worst possible assumptions on this episode.

6) And because you made the worst possible assumptions on this episode, you also totally failed to grasp the key points; why she believed Yuuichi to have "run away" from her 10 years ago, why she subconsciously created the demons, why she became the kind of person she is now, why she doesn't have a full grasp of her powers.

7) And because you couldn't grasp the key points, that is why you thought Mai was "weird" instead of fully appreciating the gravity of her situation.

8) Moreover, this sentence,

So some dumbf#cks tag your house, so what? Sic your demons on them and make them pay.....or play wow, I meant a warrior warlock priest combo class must be sort after by all guilds.

merely strengthens the possibility that you watched this episode without so much as a shred of understanding to the storyline, nor any apparent effort to correct the gap in your understanding. In fact, when all is said and done, it seemed like you weighed in on this thread just to slam Kanon without truly understanding what it is all about, or perhaps even to stroke your own ego for being so "smart".

In conclusion, you are a troll on such a level that you make DanielSong39 look like a saintly statesman, and have no business watching Kanon. So tell me again, why are you watching this in the first place, instead of "playing WOW", as you put it so succinctly?

[Meophist]

…henceforth Usagi-Mai, or UMai for short…:heh:

Anyways, I agree with most of the things you're saying. I don't really think Mai had childhood friends, at least not after Mai moved. From what I can tell, Yuuichi is the only friend Mai was able to make after finding out about her own powers. "Everybody else" probably ran off before they can be friends.

One of the interesting things is that you can really see Mai's complete and utter fear of losing Yuuichi when talking on the telephone. She was really terrified as Yuuichi was basically the only person who would interact with her(other than her mother, of course). That's why she made up the lie about the monsters going to attack the field.

Yuuichi probably didn't understand this fear because he's a pretty social person. He probably has a bunch of friends himself, and wouldn't understand how much of a big deal losing contact with one of them, even temporarily, can be. Even so, it's not like Yuuich had much of a choice in that matter.

Mai was so scared in losing her friend, that she started believing the lie she made to try to keep the two together. That's when the monsters came. She then came to fight them, and did so in order to wait for Yuuichi to return. She became really anti-social; she didn't want to make any more friends until Yuuichi returns out of fear of losing them. Yuuichi was proof that she could have a lasting friendship with someone else, so it was vital for her to have that proof before she could trust herself making more friends.

When the proof never came, she resigned to the thought that she will never have meaningful, lasting friendship. This altered her memories, causing her to believe that Yuuichi ran away like the rest, and that being one of the few things she remembers about him. She never sought out friendship, so friendship never came to her. That's until Sayuri appeared.

Sayuri came to Mai and managed to become friends. Mai hid her powers though, believing that Sayuri knowing about it will break the friendship. Mai held thier friendship to be the most important thing to her, placing it above even her own life. This results in her doing every she can to protect that friendship. This was partially due to her remaining fear of losing friends, which is why Mai still didn't pursue new ones.

Yuuichi came along. By then, Mai's memories of Yuuichi has been fragmented and altered so much that she didn't recognise him, even when she knew his name(unlike Ayu for example). Yuuichi befriended Mai, and in return, Mai helped Yuuichi when she could(Makoto and Ayu's cases). At this point, Mai didn't want to lose Yuuichi as a friend, but at the same time was afraid to get too close to him. This probably changed around the dance, when Mai really started to consider Yuuichi her friend.

In terms of friendship, Mai probably didn't know too much of what was going on around her. She was afriad of talking too much about herself and probably equally afraid of asking about other people. She was incredibly focused on protecting those that she considers her friends(Sayuri and Yuuichi), without knowing what can happen due to those actions.

Although Mai cares for her friends an awful lot, she couldn't bring herself to trust them. This changed near the end when she started to trust Yuuichi to defend himself at least a little bit. She was always afraid that her friends can leave her at any time. Therefore, a big turning point in her character was when she told Yuuichi to go to the back yard. There was an immense amount of trust she put into him to do that and be able to do that.

When Mai realised the truth, she thought she lost them. She thought she lost both Sayuri and Yuuichi as friends right then and there. She realised that she's been the one causing trouble for the both of them and it's only going to continue as long as she's there. She realised that soon they're going to give up on Mai and the troubles she causes. She realised what she believed to be true the entire time, that she won't be able to keep friends because of her powers. So when Yuuichi states that they(Sayuri and himself) won't mind, Mai said thank you. Essentially "Thank you for lying".

---

I can't believe I just typed all that up. I wasn't planning to, honest! This is all just speculation, I haven't played the game anyways so take what I say with a grain of salt.

[Raniie]

Woah. You completely hit the spot. Good work, Meophist I give you an A+ on your analysis.

Actually let me add more to this:
One of the interesting things is that you can really see Mai's complete and utter fear of losing Yuuichi when talking on the telephone. She was really terrified as Yuuichi was basically the only person who would interact with her(other than her mother, of course). That's why she made up the lie about the monsters going to attack the field.

As it is revealed in her past, her childhood, she was actually a very normal girl, when she was hanging around with young Yuuichi. She was cheerful and energetic. But that all soon changed as Yuuichi had to "temporary" leave her. It got worst when he was not able to find her that year later. Her past reveal a lot about her character and how it manifest into what she became now, in the present.

For others that still don't get it. I strongly recommend you watch Episode 11 to 15 again, and even go back to episode 4+, and revisit scenes that occured in them. Take your time and take note of what's going on, the dialogue being exchanged, and especially Mai's facial expressions and reactions.

[Chaos2Frozen]

@Ascaloth
Ah, it would seem that with DanielSong39 being MIA, a new evil has come to fill the void...

Jokes aside, like most of the populaces of this thread, this has to be one of the greatest episode in all of television! I myself didn't find that it was too much as any rush...

...Or maybe thats because I've been on the edge of my seat the whole time and was glued to the screen that I didn't bother too much about it...

I'm now wondering what's going to happen to both Mai and Sayuri, hopefully we still get treated to see their lunch times, and as for Yuichi, where who would he 'visit' now at night =) ? (Maybe Mai still hangs over school at night...)

One more thing, the story isn't too hard to understand, for people who somehow still don't get it, just take the time to go back a few pages and read the previous posts instead of asking the same questions over and over again and have poor Skane (and others, of course, it's just that his name is the easiest to remember =P) answering them over and over and o....

P.S. - I've finially evolved from 'Lurker' =)

[Raniie]

Before I forget;

Consider this as a speculation and not a spoiler;

But, for those that think this is the end of Mai's Arc, you'll be treated to a little suprised. There are quite a few hints from Yuuichi's dialogue that is foreshadowing some further events with you know who that is still at the hospital. So we'll still be seeing Mai and Sayuri again, probably at the begining of episode 16, to finally conclude Mai's story.

Remember the key word in this episode is; illusion.

Don't be suprised if Sayuri makes a "miracle" recovery. :heh:

[Chaos2Frozen]

@ Raniie

Reading your post above... Could it be that...



EVERYTHING the 'Demons' did, were fakes?!

[Skane]

To answer my earlier question that I posed,
Yuuichi states that he lost contact with Mai because the field was gone, but... they have each other's phone numbers, so why didn't Mai call him the next summer?

The truth of the matter is... well, I'm going to see how they animate the last three arcs first, before I spoil on the details. ;)Cheers

[Raniie]

Oh and I'm very suprised that no one pointed out the importance usage of the date and the symbolism effect it had in this episode.

Has everyone already forgotten that it was Mai's Birthday? Remember, Yuuichi said they'll end all this tonight, on her birthday, and the symbolism of Mai's death and rebirth at the end of the episode.

There's so much to understand about this episode, it's awe to those that love paying attention to details.

For those that gave this episode anything less than a 10 rating, you should've been ashame of yourself! -jk :heh:

[aliensporebomb]

Devil Doll:I noticed that too. I also noticed that there's three cases of a terminal illness as well.

And the idea extends to Air as well. I wonder if someone on the production
team doing the writing had a family member experience some of these things
or was source material for this idea.

[Skane]

Oh and I'm very suprised that no one pointed out the importance usage of the date and the symbolism effect it had in this episode.

Has everyone already forgotten that it was Mai's Birthday? Remember, Yuuichi said they'll end all this tonight, on her birthday, and the symbolism of Mai's death and rebirth at the end of the episode.

There's so much to understand about this episode, it's awe to those that love paying attention to details.

For those that gave this episode anything less than a 10 rating, you should've been ashame of yourself! -jk :heh:
I can't give a ten if it's incomplete. :heh: I'll pay back the points in the overall score if they resolve the loose ends by the end of the series. ;) Otherwise, I stand by my score of 9.

Oh, and just to play the Devil's Advocate, it was already part midnight when Mai died and resurrected. :heh: Ergo, not on her birthday.

Cheers.

[guuchan]

It's more like that Mai felt extremely bad that she was the one which caused harm and danger to her most treasured people and she can't live with it. It's just a logical extension to ep14 where she also tried to kill herself for failing to protect Sayuri.
Yep, I will go with that. :)

Yuuich did explain it in his dialogue to Mai. The "demons" just wanted to convey something to Yuuichi, they were indeed looking for Yuuichi because the reason they manifested was because this lie created by Mai was directed at Yuuichi in the first place ("we must protect it together" - the "we" being Mai and Yuuichi). However Mai's power were so strong that only the raw emotion came through and not the words, hence they "attacked" Yuuichi. Very clearly explained in the dialogue.
I was totally thinking in term of the game and forgot about the series itself. :heh: He indeed did explain so in the series, but never in the game (please correct me if I'm wrong). KyoAni added in a little interpretation of their own there, didn't they? ;)

@Skane: Actually, Mai's mom was raised from the dead. It doesn't seem so in the anime, but in the game Mai explicitly said that she's dead, iirc.

[MakubeX2]

Maybe AIR-ifying Kanon wasn't such a bad idea? It was interesting to see them try something different. Wonder if they might use that approach in the Ayu arc - and make allusions to Ayu/Kanna and Nayuki/Uraha.

And the idea extends to Air as well.

Why does everyone thinks that Kanon was based on AIR ? Might I remind everybody one more time that Kanon was released in '99, AIR follows a year later.

I wonder if someone on the production
team doing the writing had a family member experience some of these things
or was source material for this idea.

That's because Kanon and AIR was written by the same person, Jun Maeda.

[Devil Doll]

dkellis, I couldn't have described my impression of 2k2-Mai better than you did. For me as well Sayuri's role is the key why I love Mai (and Sayuri as well) in 2k2.

Meophist, kudos for your excellent analytical posting.

Rainee, there's a lot of reasons not to give this episode a 10. You should just accept that.

I'm surprised to hear now that Mai's seppuku is considered rushed. I'd say it appears diluted - and that's because she used the suicide threat in episode 14 already, so we knew how far she might go. 2k2 played that particular element differently, thus the "second one" had a lot more impact on me back then compared to its 2k6 equivalent in episode 15 now.

As for the Mai-Yuuichi relation, I wonder why Mai insisted on treating Yuuichi the same way she treated Sayuri. Look, Yuuichi already proved to Mai that he was okay with Mai dealing with supernatural elements like those demons (very unlike Sayuri whom Mai never told about these things). Yuuichi never considered Mai a freak; on the contrary he critizised her for her lack of honesty towards Sayuri (and blamed himself for not fixing that problem, thus causing Sayuri to be hurt in episode 14). Shouldn't that have given Mai a reason to trust Yuuichi more? Even after Yuuichi revealed who he is in episode 15, and that he's okay with befriending Mai even though she has this particular ability, so that Mai should now be aware that she was wrong all those years thinking Yuuichi abandoned her, Mai still rejects Yuuichi's friendship and prefers to commit seppuku. If she ever acted immaturely in this episode then it was this final scene, not in any of her decisions ten years ago. (Then again, Mai acting immaturely on occasion is part of why she is so lovable... it brings out the protector in the male audience.)

To answer my earlier question that I posed,
Yuuichi states that he lost contact with Mai because the field was gone, but... they have each other's phone numbers, so why didn't Mai call him the next summer?Um... two can play this game:Why didn't Yuuichi call Mai the next summer after he didn't find her at the field?But thanks for not telling me right now. If there's some potential surprise ahead of me, such as Mai's arc potentially not being over, I don't want to be spoiled about it.

@Skane: Actually, Mai's mom was raised from the dead. It doesn't seem so in the anime, but in the game Mai explicitly said that she's dead, iirc.Ah, that would explain why the nurse was so shocked in episode 15 to see Mai's mother alive. The bird clearly was moving before Mai healed it, but we don't seem to get details about the condition of Mai's mother in the anime.

[aliensporebomb]

Ahh, I've heard of that show.

I've watched about one anime series the past year, so I don't know much about many of the references you guys make. Unfortunally I've got Shuffle! ruined for me because of this.

I'm warning you, if you watch Higurashi your mind will be blown through the
top of your head - at least, wait until Kanon 2006 is done before watching it!

Re: Episode 15:
After having time to digest this episode I think that it is the best so far and
I did rate it a ten - the second show in this series I have done so on.

The whole ending that wasn't completely clear to me when watching the raw
now is very clear on why she attempted hara-kiri and why she also survived.

The girl is a poor tortured thing - let's hope she can have some happiness now.

[aliensporebomb]

Why does everyone thinks that Kanon was based on AIR ? Might I remind everybody one more time that Kanon was released in '99, AIR follows a year later.



That's because Kanon and AIR was written by the same person, Jun Maeda.

The idea that:



Some character in the show suffers from some debilitating medical condition.

This seems to be a popular reoccurring fantasy in these shows, for instance
Hanbun Tsuki ga Noburo Sora also had a character that lived under the
constant threat of dying, I've seen some other shows where a character
has some condition that might result in them passing away such as
Iriya no Sora, UFO No Natsu - the female lead though strong also had
repeated relapses of a medical nature.

[Ascaloth]

@DanielSong39,

There was no "AIR-ifying" of Kanon. That has always been the way the original Mai arc in the game was supposed to be played out. KyoAni stuck to the original storyline. What you're seeing in Episode 15 is the real deal. It is a story idea that predated AIR. And no, there is no 'Kanna-ing' of Ayu, nor 'Uraha-ing' of Nayuki. If you're looking for yet another hackjob of Kanon, look somewhere else.

Once again, you have proven yourself to possess the kind of ignorance towards Kanon's storyline, that can only result from misguided reference to hackjob adaptations of what was supposed to be a genre-changing storyline.

@Chaos2Frozen,

It would seem that my work is never done. :heh:

[Deathkillz]

well its just something that the series can relate to ~ its quite enjoyable to see the similarities (besides from the same landmarks :heh:) ~
there themes are quite similar as well...i mean a male lead going around helping girls with problems while at the same time experience change...

[Scep]

Pretty good episode. Just that when i thought of mai's powers i couldnt stop but think of suzumiya haruhi. Power to do impossible things just by wishing it... not knowing herself having the power... stuff like that.

[Ascaloth]

Okay, I finally watched it.

I'll state my thoughts, but everyone's stolen my words. So I'll just summarize: it's nice to know more of Mai's true story, the animation quality was superb, but yes, the feeling is that the pace went by too fast. It leaves one with the feeling of something incomplete, somehow. It'll be best if KyoAni takes the next few episodes to "wind down" Mai's arc, so to speak, although the preview for 16 doesn't give any hint of her presence. If they drop her like a bomb next week, I'll knock the KyoAni storyboarders one over the head.

I'd like to give a 10, but the best I can manage with this is an 8. Too much action, not enough story development. I'm not watching Kanon for the fight scenes, I'm watching it for the story. KyoAni had better realise that.

EDIT: Some points of interest:

1) The part where Yuuichi falls into Mai's past memories has a Red Shift-esque feel to it. Red Shift happens to be one of only two doujin VNs I particularly liked (the other being Narcissu), so props to KyoAni.

2) Around 08:11, the scene of the last demon dying felt awfully Final Fantasy-esque to me. That death scene is right out of Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, with the demon disintegrating into tendrils of 'spirit energy' and all.

3) 08:50-08:54,

"Itai, Yuuichi."

That's Mai moe overload right there for me. :D

4) 16:30-16:35, that animation of the flower reviving....that was pure class. Pure quality animation. I am shocked. And awed.

5) Mai sounded way too calm when Yuuichi explained everything to her. I know she's the Ice Queen of Kanon, but show some emotion, please. It's not like she's not capable of it; we saw the truth of that in the previous episode. Too much subtlety makes the broth bland; it's part of why I didn't think KyoAni didn't do as well as I hoped this time round. It almost seemed like she had no reason for stabbing herself. Now if her voice was a little shakier just before she stabbed herself, I might have bought it...

6) There's also something missing in Yuuichi's voice this time round, too...I had expected Sugita to be able to bring back the feeling he used in Makoto's finale. Remember, in episode 10, when his wavery delivery of "Makoto...." was just pitch perfect? I expected it here, but I didn't feel it....

7) Oh, and one last thing. I would dearly love to see next episode, how Yuuichi explains to Akiko and Nayuki why he didn't come home all night.

"Oh, after the birthday party, I stayed with Sayuri-san and Mai-san for a 'midnight study session' together...."

:D

[houkoholic]

Pretty good episode. Just that when i thought of mai's powers i couldnt stop but think of suzumiya haruhi. Power to do impossible things just by wishing it... not knowing herself having the power... stuff like that.

The similiarity is superfical at best, the underlying theme is entirely different.

For Mai, she knew about the power but didn't want to have anything to do with it because to her, the power caused her a lot of pain, and she forced herself to forget and deny her own power. She would rather be normal, but Yuuichi and Sayuri taught her to embrace herself for who she is.

Haruhi otoh, doesn't want to be normal, and she only saw the positive of being abnormal while not knowing what consequence they could bring and what harm it does to the people around her. Haruhi hasn't learnt that lesson yet, and probably won't for a long while seeing as everyone else surrounding her don't want her to know this.

[panzerfan]

We can only wait and see if Mai and Sayuri will keep a low-level presence as Shiori takes prominance. Given how KyoAni handled post-Makoto, I think that the two of them will still pose some influence as the story moves along.

(KyoAni and action... for some reason, the studio makes each and every single action shot in their work stand out like sore thumbs.)

[USCPharmacist]

Your comments so far on this thread tells us a few things:

1) That this is probably the first episode of Kanon you've ever seen. In fact, it seemed like you just jumped into episode 15 without bothering to look at the other episodes beforehand. (and considering that, as far as I remember, you have not posted in any episode threads before this one, it's highly possible that this is the case)

2) Because of this, naturally you have absolutely no understanding whatsoever about the actual plot.

3) And because you have no understanding of the plot, it therefore stands to reason that you have absolutely no empathy for Mai's life story, and thus no sympathy for her tragedy.

4) In other words, you entirely failed to understand this episode because you didn't do your homework on the Kanon plotlines.

5) Because you didn't do your homework and thus have no knowledge nor understanding on the actual state of the plot, you naturally made the worst possible assumptions on this episode.

6) And because you made the worst possible assumptions on this episode, you also totally failed to grasp the key points; why she believed Yuuichi to have "run away" from her 10 years ago, why she subconsciously created the demons, why she became the kind of person she is now, why she doesn't have a full grasp of her powers.

7) And because you couldn't grasp the key points, that is why you thought Mai was "weird" instead of fully appreciating the gravity of her situation.

8) Moreover, this sentence,



merely strengthens the possibility that you watched this episode without so much as a shred of understanding to the storyline, nor any apparent effort to correct the gap in your understanding. In fact, when all is said and done, it seemed like you weighed in on this thread just to slam Kanon without truly understanding what it is all about, or perhaps even to stroke your own ego for being so "smart".

In conclusion, you are a troll on such a level that you make DanielSong39 look like a saintly statesman, and have no business watching Kanon. So tell me again, why are you watching this in the first place, instead of "playing WOW", as you put it so succinctly?

You're wrong my friend, I watched every single episode and I was expecting something tragic about Mai's past, but what I see it's just a little girl who had lost her way a little, not that something like Makoto who really had not much choice in her matter. I never played the game so I have to rely completely on Kanon 2k6 to fill me in on the story and I just don't think this episode deliver. If you can check my other scores for the other episode they were all 9 - 10. I am just not the type who would come to a forum to tell everyone "hey what a great episode" when I already state my point with my vote. I'll only post when I have something to say and this time, this episode bug me to no end. Maybe it was rush or something but there was really no time for me to reflect on the event and then it was over. Furthermore I do not like suicidal character because that just a cowardly act, and Mai was a coward for doing what she did. If she is so concern about Sayuri's life, heal her first then suicide. BTW her mom is still alive right? I think she really need to talk to her daughter a bit more about things and stuffs. I mean if I were the mom I would be a little concern if I see my daughter carrying a freaking sword to school:heh: .

Having said all that I still like Mai as a character, I just don't like her story too much. Maybe I have the wrong impression, from Makoto arc perhaps that Kanon is more or less a tragedy instead. After I read other posts I think Mai's arc is actually quite comical and Mai is funny. She really need to stick around with Pimpyuuchi to get better from her anti social way cuz a smile suit Mai more then a flown. Mai is really lucky that she has many opportunity ahead of her (I am only basing this on the first 15 episodes), she just need to stop thinking in the glass half empty sort of way. Or she should meet Haruhi in the next town, lol, I am pretty sure Haruhi will want her to be her member. I meant one more bunny girl wouldn't hurt.

[Ascaloth]

You're wrong my friend, I watched every single episode and I was expecting something tragic about Mai's past, but what I see it's just a little girl who had lost her way a little, not that something like Makoto who really had not much choice in her matter. I never played the game so I have to rely completely on Kanon 2k6 to fill me in on the story and I just don't think this episode deliver. If you can check my other scores for the other episode they were all 9 - 10. I am just not the type who would come to a forum to tell everyone "hey what a great episode" when I already state my point with my vote. I'll only post when I have something to say and this time, this episode bug me to no end. Maybe it was rush or something but there was really no time for me to reflect on the event and then it was over. Furthermore I do not like suicidal character because that just a cowardly act, and Mai was a coward for doing what she did. If she is so concern about Sayuri's life, heal her first then suicide. BTW her mom is still alive right? I think she really need to talk to her daughter a bit more about things and stuffs. I mean if I were the mom I would be a little concern if I see my daughter carrying a freaking sword to school:heh: .

Having said all that I still like Mai as a character, I just don't like her story too much. Maybe I have the wrong impression, from Makoto arc perhaps that Kanon is more or less a tragedy instead. After I read other posts I think Mai's arc is actually quite comical and Mai is funny. She really need to stick around with Pimpyuuchi to get better from her anti social way cuz a smile suit Mai more then a flown. Mai is really lucky that she has many opportunity ahead of her (I am only basing this on the first 15 episodes), she just need to stop thinking in the glass half empty sort of way. Or she should meet Haruhi in the next town, lol, I am pretty sure Haruhi will want her to be her member. I meant one more bunny girl wouldn't hurt.


The only reason you think this way is because you are a person who lacks the empathy needed to put yourself in Mai's shoes, and walk around in them.

If you could do that, you would have understood how Mai actually felt. I'll explain more, but I'm afraid my usual way of posting would just fly over your head, so I'm going to dumb it down for your convenience, just to make sure you can understand what I'm saying;

If Mai could talk to you, she'll say, "If you were in my shoes, you'd be messed up, too."

Granted, after having seen this episode, I can appreciate that the full impact of Mai's arc would be lost on some newbie viewers. However, you would have done better to ask around some more to fill in the gaps in your comprehension, instead of making false assumption based on faulty data.

Now go away and think about this some more.

[Skane]

~ @Skane: Actually, Mai's mom was raised from the dead. It doesn't seem so in the anime, but in the game Mai explicitly said that she's dead, iirc.
Really? I don't really recall that from the game transcripts, but I'll take your word for it. Regardless, if Mai could really raise the dead, that would make her the Messiah or something. :heh:
~~~~ ~~~~

To Ascaloth,

Take a chill pill, man! You're flaming unnecessarily. I can empathise with your indignation, but you're dealing with it in a very wrong way, and if a moderator were to intervene at this point, you would be the one in the wrong.

As the saying goes, 'attack' the post, not the poster.

Besides, I really don't want to have a flame war in the Kanon forums. It ain't healthy for folks, and a detriment to steady discussion.

Cheers.

[Raniie]

I can't give a ten if it's incomplete. :heh: I'll pay back the points in the overall score if they resolve the loose ends by the end of the series. ;) Otherwise, I stand by my score of 9.

Oh, and just to play the Devil's Advocate, it was already part midnight when Mai died and resurrected. :heh: Ergo, not on her birthday.

Cheers.

Yes, that's true, she died when her Birthday was over (aka midnight; next morning day) but when you look at it. It's like a new start for Mai. The death of her former-self and the revival of a new Mai. :D

Rainee, there's a lot of reasons not to give this episode a 10. You should just accept that.

Ooh, you guys took me seriously on that comment. I was just teasing around. I already understand the reason for why people would rate what they rate for this episode. People that enjoy and understand what's going on would find this episode fantastic, while people that are confused and losted on what's going on will find this episode disappointing. Especially when expecting something to happen and it wasn't excuted, or being misled.

[Meophist]

Woah. You completely hit the spot. Good work, Meophist I give you an A+ on your analysis.Uhh… thanks.

My post is supposed to be more complimentary to Skane's post. Skane handled Mai's background as one who can use super natural powers, while I mostly did it as one who is a human being. I can see bits of myself in Mai, so maybe that's why I can understand how she thinks.

In any case does anybody know what it says in the credits for Mai's mom? I'm having trouble figuring out that last kanji(my Japanese, espcially my written Japanese, isn't all that great).

[New/Old]

Me thinks some time to calm down would do well for this thread. Heh heh. :heh:

Nevertheless, I think that if one were to consider things one would be able to understand. It doesn't take much to do so in my opinon and Skane and other vets have already laid it out pretty neatly before me, so I don't think another 'old geezer' needs to add to it. I merely just ask that one look at some of the previous posts. Most of everything can be seen right in the episodes, so it's not as if most of it is not there in the first place.... It's just that old fans can spot it more easily, though sharp new viewers will be able to catch things as well. Heh heh.

Or perhaps I really do need to lay it out again.... At least to relieve the others who have picked up the slack that I have failed to keep up while taking care of things in life.

[Meophist]

Something I want to add, is that Mai's arc as I described it can be done without super-natural elements. The supernatural elements merely gave a reason for Mai's initial isolation and a reason for Mai and Yuuichi to reunite.

It wouldn't be the exact same, but it can be very similar.

[Lilith]

Ep 15
Damn, the music is fantastic.

I agree, the scene of little Mai making snow rabbits was so great. It made me teary.

Also my heart stopped when she suicided. I thought "Oh God what all Kanon girls gonna die?!" Yuuichi crying = wow! *fangirls*

Special thanks to everyone contributing in this thread. It makes me understand the episode and appreciate hints better. :D

Really looking forward to next episode! My beautiful Shiori~ <3 And is Akiko-san in danger? I bet it's the jam! :p

[DanielSong39]

@DanielSong39,

There was no "AIR-ifying" of Kanon. That has always been the way the original Mai arc in the game was supposed to be played out. KyoAni stuck to the original storyline. What you're seeing in Episode 15 is the real deal. It is a story idea that predated AIR. And no, there is no 'Kanna-ing' of Ayu, nor 'Uraha-ing' of Nayuki. If you're looking for yet another hackjob of Kanon, look somewhere else.

Once again, you have proven yourself to possess the kind of ignorance towards Kanon's storyline, that can only result from misguided reference to hackjob adaptations of what was supposed to be a genre-changing storyline.



Actually, I was comparing the presentation of Mai's story to the AIR ANIME. My comment was that this episode was produced in a way very similar to what we saw in the anime. And I was suggesting draw further parallels to the Summer Arc while they were presenting Ayu's arc.

Even given the original source material, there are many ways you can present it. And in this case, the presentation in Kanon 2006 was similar to the presentation in AIR - and if you look at it from that point of view, it's absolutely fair to say that "AIR TV" predates "Kanon 2006".

I'm not suggesting that KyoAni did a hack job in episode 15 and ripped off of AIR. If you choose to interpret it that way, I can't stop you... but what I meant to say was that KyoAni used elements from AIR TV and applied it to Episode 15 to create a different experience. And I think it's a direction that has some potential.

[guuchan]

Really? I don't really recall that from the game transcripts, but I'll take your word for it. Regardless, if Mai could really raise the dead, that would make her the Messiah or something. :heh:
Actually I wasn't 100% sure myself either. It's been years since I played Kanon, and my memory is failing me hard these days. :heh: I had to go through the game to confirm it.

http://guuchan2003.hp.infoseek.co.jp/maismom.jpg

Are we going to have Maism now after Haruhism? :D

In any case does anybody know what it says in the credits for Mai's mom? I'm having trouble figuring out that last kanji(my Japanese, espcially my written Japanese, isn't all that great).
舞の母親 <- that one?

母親 = hahaoya, it just means mother. It's a little more respectful way of addressing someone's mom, you can say.

[Meophist]

I just found that out myself. Manual kanji search(which I hate doing), followed by reverse conversion. I know what hahaoya means, just don't remember the kanji(for oya, I know the kanji for haha). Thanks anyways.

[USCPharmacist]

The only reason you think this way is because you are a person who lacks the empathy needed to put yourself in Mai's shoes, and walk around in them.

If you could do that, you would have understood how Mai actually felt. I'll explain more, but I'm afraid my usual way of posting would just fly over your head, so I'm going to dumb it down for your convenience, just to make sure you can understand what I'm saying;

If Mai could talk to you, she'll say, "If you were in my shoes, you'd be messed up, too."

Granted, after having seen this episode, I can appreciate that the full impact of Mai's arc would be lost on some newbie viewers. However, you would have done better to ask around some more to fill in the gaps in your comprehension, instead of making false assumption based on faulty data.

Now go away and think about this some more.

So now you insult me for feeling the way I feel :heh: :heh: So I don't feel the way you do I am a heartless bastard:heh: OK THEN I AM A HEARTLESS BASTARD AND I THINK THIS KYOANI EPISODE SUCKS. IT DOESN'T MAKE ME FEEL SORRY FOR MAI ONE BIT.

Seriously, I've never play the game so I'm going by what the episode showed me, and I don't feel anything you say about her. I feel more when Sayuri explain to Yuuchi what happen to her and Makoto story then Mai. Maybe if Kyoani has more episode time show that it can flash out more of Mai's story I'll change my mind, but I think the ending was rushed. Mai just kill herself and then comeback to life as if she used her soul stone, I am sorry I just think that's funny.

BTW I am a newbie when it comes to Kanon, but I am only commenting on this Kyoani episode. This episode is confusing and unmoving. I am not trashing your beloved Mai or Kanon the game, so chill.

[New/Old]

Astute viewers will notice that Yuuichi left Mai 10( not 7!) years ago in the K06 version. There is actually more than meets the eyes in Mai's arc, and unfortunately, because Ayu is going to get the spotlight, it had to be compromised. :(

Yep. Had to go back and see if they added it in and Yuuichi did make a reference to it. Now whether the rest of the reason for that event happening will be tied in in the end with a certain arc that I will not say for fear of spoiling viewers is also something that I will definitely be on the look out for. Heh heh.


USCPharmacist. Heh heh. If you are confused on certain things, I'll be happy to fill in details with only information presented in the episodes. So, what is it that I can hopefully help you with. Heh heh.

[Devil Doll]

I can understand USCPharmacist's reasoning in so far as Mai committing seppuku and then deciding to rewrite history may be considered Cntrl-Alt-Reboot storywriting.

Episode 15 told us the lesson that the dead aren't really that dead (two resurrections in one episode, Mai's mother as well as Mai herself) - which isn't a good idea for a tragedy. How do we honestly grieve for our beloved characters now if they might be alive and kicking the next moment?

[New/Old]

Now that I consider beating something with a rubber hose... :heh:

Ah, but where to begin, where to begin. My mind is of that which is to compose of such things.

We have two instances of resurrections of sorts. Mai's mother, whom the young girl wished from the very bottom of her heart to keep in this world, is the first that perhaps I should dig at. Think of this as the first instance of such a thing happening and one of the key events placed to shape Mai up into the child that she was. No more than that. Previous posts have filled in on Mai's character as a child so I need not have to go into that.

The last so-called resurrection is another way to symbolize the end of her dream (I don't think it needs to go farther.). The new Mai's awakening into the beginnings of a better life and such and such.

In short, think of the supernatural aspects of Kanon as tools used to tell and set up. Devices that are merely background devices that may be misunderstood as important, but are merely just there to enable the story to go through. I think this is being too obsessed about. It'll take away from the truer meaning of the story if you do so, but I suppose it is not my lost. After all, if you obsessed over Makoto being a fox and having a truly serious problem with the aspect of a fox becoming a human being, Makoto's story itself wouldn't be that impactful as it was, eh. Heh heh.

Like I said before, beating something with a rubber hose.

Of course, that's my wacky, disorganized thought process. I may need more time to organize it into something much more presentable. Heh heh. :heh:

[Devil Doll]

Well, you basically seem to say I should forget considering Kanon to be a drama and take everything as an allegory. This would be disappointing for me, and in this case the drama layer would in fact be ridiculous.
Kanon does provide suspense elements - but by doing the reboot trick it makes them null and void, and you can't do that too often without losing credibility.

[panzerfan]

Well, Epicurus has once said that...

"Accustom thyself then to the thought that death concerns us not; for all good and evil is a matter of sensation, but death is a deprivation of sensation. Therefore the true reflection that death is no concern of ours, makes our mortal life one of enjoyment, since this thought does not add an endless length of days, but does away with the longing after immortality. For nothing in life has terrors for him who has once truly recognised the fact that not to live is not a matter of dread. Thus it is a vain thing to fear death, not because its presence but because the anticipation of it brings us pain. For how can the anticipation of a thing pain us when its reality does not? There is therefore in death nothing to trouble us. For when we are in life, death is not there, and when death is there, we are not. Therefore death does not concern either the living or the dead.”

I would rather approach the story of Kanon as how Pachelbel's Kanon D -dur unfolds itself... being layer upon layer of allegory. I am not exactly trying to suggest that Epicurus's viewpoint is the end-all, be-all (fear of death should not be taken light of), but to me anyway, I find the way to look into death from Kanon's context to be a bit closer to what the philosopher had suggested. That might ultimately mean that the story is no tragedy... and I perscribe that that notion.

On the comment of how echoes of AIR TV seems to flow throughout this episode, I definitely agree that there are things to relate to between the two productions. The way of presentation, the visual imagery, the execution of sequence, the revelation all bear quite a level of resemblence. The messages however are not the same, so I don't really feel a strong parallel over this.

[Cyz]

I really like Mai's BG music. It's mysterious and quite lovely IMO. It somehow suits the mood when she and Yuuichi are together. That's 2 ARCs down and only 3 more to go..and we only have 11 episodes left.

[Meophist]

I'm no expert, but in Kanon, it doesn't seem like death is supposed to represent the end. Instead, death is usually the start of something. Death, I think, is the beginning.

Also, Kanon doesn't strike me as a tragedy. Not yet, anyways.

[Devil Doll]

If death is the beginning, then let's all commit seppuku together happily?

I just rewatched this episode once again. Yuuichi told Mai to accept her powers, and to end the battle by putting down the sword. We see a short flashback scene of happy as well as painful memories of Mai together with Sayuri and Yuuichi - apparently Mai pondering the pros and cons of believing Yuuichi. Now Mai did the exact opposite of what Yuuichi told her - instead of putting down the sword she used it against herself. (I think she did that during all previous demon battles as well which is why she hurt herself more and more in the process, we see her bruises when she killed her powers one by one. In 2k2 this scene is even more visually explicit.) Then kibou appears and tells Yuuichi she can return to Mai as she thinks Mai will accept her now. Given the development after this point we have to assume kibou is right.
I see two possible paths of interpretation:
Mai finally accepted her own powers despite killing herself, and was thus able to heal herself. But when did she change her mind, and why? Mai finally accepted her own powers by killing herself (which would mean she changed her mind during the flashback sequence, and because Yuuichi convinced her), leaving Yuuichi confused, and me as well. Why did she believe she had to kill herself after having accepted Yuuichi's point of view?What exactly happened in this scene?

During the kibou scene we see lights ascending into the sky which usually symbolizes someone is dying. Who is dying in this scene? Apparently not Mai, as her wound is healed soon afterwards.

How many powers did Mai actually have (besides healing she was able to predict Yuuichi's arrival), and do these powers have names in the game?

Did Mai lose all powers but one during the recent battles? (I'm fine with "this would be a spoiler" as reply.)

[New/Old]

Well, you basically seem to say I should forget considering Kanon to be a drama and take everything as an allegory. This would be disappointing for me, and in this case the drama layer would in fact be ridiculous.
Kanon does provide suspense elements - but by doing the reboot trick it makes them null and void, and you can't do that too often without losing credibility.

Heh heh. You misunderstand me. Or perhaps I have failed in portraying my thoughts as I am wacky and disorganized. I will have to clear it up. :heh:

Take the supernatural as something to allow the story to go through. That was the basicality (Yes, this isn't a word) of my opinon. It takes the backseat to the actual story and meaning.

[Lumir]

What an oustanding episode! The music was mystical!!! And and the jam of nastiness returned! Omg this episode had it all, even the action! And it was well animated too! I think imma go back for another watch, its that good.

"Our time togather has been short"

"W... what?"

AHAHAHA!

[Devil Doll]

Take the supernatural as something to allow the story to go through. That was the basicality (Yes, this isn't a word) of my opinon. It takes the backseat to the actual story and meaning.I can accept that. But it will mean Kanon isn't firing on all cylinders if one layer insists on lacking plausibility (for the sake of other layers). After all, it's up to the audience to decide which layer will be the most important one for them.
And if Kanon offers one layer it should fulfill the requirements. 2k6 doesn't offer the harem/romance layer but it does offer the fantasy action layer (just like Evangelion does); if that layer shows significant plausibility issues I can't just ignore that, regardless of how insignificant you rate them. That's why I want to understand that layer as well.

[Deathkillz]

I see two possible paths of interpretation:
Mai finally accepted her own powers despite killing herself, and was thus able to heal herself. But when did she change her mind, and why? Mai finally accepted her own powers by killing herself (which would mean she changed her mind during the flashback sequence, and because Yuuichi convinced her), leaving Yuuichi confused, and me as well. Why did she believe she had to kill herself after having accepted Yuuichi's point of view?What exactly happened in this scene?

How many powers did Mai actually have (besides healing she was able to predict Yuuichi's arrival), and do these powers have names in the game?

wow you are thinking into this soo deeply :heh: but rather sometime going for the simple explination would be better ~

what i feel about mai stabbing herself? well i think that by killing herself mai tries to set herself free from her bounds...in that sense she has been held down by the "sword" all these years and to her it isnt something so simple as to put down (which yuuichi doesnt understand why) ~ id say that both your interpretations are wrong...the easier meaning would be for mai to leave this world as a way to suffering even more as she knows that there isnt a purpose in life for her any more (even is yuuichi knows thats untrue)...she did say thankyou to yuuichi before that stab and this means that she has already accepted death as a consequence...she didnt need any thing else in this world as her dream of meeting the boy that left her so long ago has returned...

with that she was willing to die...and then comes her powers...imo she didnt even intend to heal herself...it was more like her powers have a conscience of their own..."hope" healer her and i think thats the last we will see of mai's powers...its as if "hope" has used up the last of her powers inorder to save mai (while the other ones was killed by mai herself)...also she did say before leaving that she was only a samll fragment of mai's powers...therefore i conclude that mai will return without any more powers...its as if she killed them with her own hands (cause she didnt want them in the first place) ~

[Devil Doll]

I was just told to take Kanon 2006 allegorical...

So you say Yuuichi simply failed to save Mai, Mai actually killed herself and then the deus ex machina emerged and rewrote the history book?
If that's the case how can "hope" claim Mai to have accepted her powers?

[Deathkillz]

I was just told to take Kanon 2006 allegorical...

So you say Yuuichi simply failed to save Mai, Mai actually killed herself and then the deus ex machina emerged and rewrote the history book?
If that's the case how can "hope" claim Mai to have accepted her powers?
yes i am but i wouldnt call it a deus ex machina cause "hope" was still there and alive within (or outside physically) mai...and the part where she THINKS that mai could accept her now...well she doesnt know for certain but based on what happened she is apart of mai after all so she should know better...

also not that "hope" is kilda like the inner childhood emotions of mai...another way of thinking it would be that this emotion is released upon mai's death ~

[Cytrus]

Devil, while I'm a Kanon first-timer, the explanation that works for me is:

Mai posesses a range of different powers. Among them are healing, creation and destruction. Her power of creation created the demons, but because they were born of her sadness and (as Yuuichi states) were just "too powerful" they became harmful. Mai learned to depend on her power of destruction (the sword), and even decided that it was her only use for her friends. Through encounters with the demons, we see that her destructive ability is greater than her creation ability, but fighting is harmful to her. Hear comes the recent episode.

Yuuichi proves to Mai that her friends love her for who she is, and not for how well she can "protect" them. Mai accepts that truth, but she can't simply drop the sword - the power she has. However, she becomes confident that the ability to kill does not define her - that's why she smiles.

Then she stabs herself. But think: Mai is Mai, hope is Mai, the sword is Mai. This is the moment of confrontation with which she wishes to create herself anew. If her hope and caring for other people(seen as kid Mai) are greater than her fear of losing them(seen as the sword) she cannot kill herself and will survive her own stab. This also assures her that she will survive only if she can be of use to her friends.

Hope knows Mai will not die, and therefore that Mai accepted hope as the more important part of her powers.

That's how I see it, at least.

[Meophist]

I was just told to take Kanon 2006 allegorical...

So you say Yuuichi simply failed to save Mai, Mai actually killed herself and then the deus ex machina emerged and rewrote the history book?
If that's the case how can "hope" claim Mai to have accepted her powers?Yuuichi "saved" Mai, but Mai killed herself anyways.

It's rather debatable whether or not Mai had powers at that point. It's possible that she lost them, and they simply followed her around in the form of demons. In any case, Mai stopped using her powers. She had for quite some time, probably since after Yuuichi left.

The reason Mai killed herself is not a matter of accepting her powers or not. She probably couldn't at the time in any case. Mai killed herself from the guilt of her being responsible for everything that's happened. Also because she didn't think Yuuichi and Sayuri will be able to forgive her.

Yuuichi "saved" her by keeping his promise, and by allowing Mai to remember the past properly. He made her realise that she can have a meaningful friendship, but she thought she screwed it up.

In order for Mai to accept her powers, she needs to go back in time and start growing up all over again. She needs to get over her fear of losing friends and learn to be happy. She basically needs to learn to be a child again. Her powers, I think, become useless after the episode, but they are still a part of her, and she needs them to be "whole". They're more symbolic than anything.

"Hope" never said that she accepted her powers. She said that she thinks she can accept her powers now. That's because Yuuichi has proven his friendship to Mai, which is what Mai has wanted for the entire time.

"Hope" was one of Mai's powers, the sixth beast. She was separate from Mai at the time, so she was able to heal her.

[dkellis]

There's also the (rather blatant, to me) reference with Pandora's Box, with Hope being the "final demon".

[Devil Doll]

"Hope" never said that she accepted her powers. She said that she thinks she can accept her powers now. That's because Yuuichi has proven his friendship to Mai, which is what Mai has wanted for the entire time.But what did Yuuichi actually do to "prove his friendship" between the moment when Mai stabbed herself and the moment when Hope decided to heal the wound? Yuuichi told Hope that he'd accept Mai as friend with her powers - something he told Mai half a dozen times already, most notably directly before Mai decided to stab herself. I don't see how Yuuichi could have possibly saved Mai after the stab - and I don't see why Mai would stab herself if Yuuichi saved her already.
Why would Hope believe Yuuichi when Mai did not, only seconds earlier? Why would Mai change her mind within these few seconds, first deciding to kill herself for being unable to accept her power, then suddenly doing the exact opposite?
Would Hope be able to "overrule" Mai? In that case wasn't in command of her powers but the powers were in command of Mai... then why would Mai be able to kill the demons?

There's also the (rather blatant, to me) reference with Pandora's Box, with Hope being the "final demon".Ah! Thank you. Finally the magical number of five demons begins to make sense to me.
Can we identify these demons in Mai's behaviour? I can see pining in Mai's lie during the phone call; vanity and greed might have led Mai to the TV shows; slander would rather have been something she experienced as a victim. And envy... wait, someone said that in the game there's some connection between Mai's and Ayu's story in the past...?

[Meophist]

But what did Yuuichi actually do to "prove his friendship" between the moment when Mai stabbed herself and the moment when Hope decided to heal the wound? Yuuichi told Hope that he'd accept Mai as friend with her powers - something he told Mai half a dozen times already, most notably directly before Mai decided to stab herself. I don't see how Yuuichi could have possibly saved Mai after the stab - and I don't see why Mai would stab herself if Yuuichi saved her already.
Why would Hope believe Yuuichi when Mai did not, only seconds earlier? Why would Mai change her mind within these few seconds, first deciding to kill herself for being unable to accept her power, then suddenly doing the exact opposite?
Would Hope be able to "overrule" Mai? In that case wasn't in command of her powers but the powers were in command of Mai... then why would Mai be able to kill the demons?Yuuichi proved his friendship by returning to Mai and being there for her. It's something Mai didn't realise until the end.

I think you're confusing Hope and Mai together. They're different entities. Mai's powers became separate entities and became the demons. They were connected to Mai, so both can sense each other. Neither were in command of each other.

When I said "saved", I was talking about how Mai couldn't get herself to open up to other people until Yuuichi kept his promise. Yuuichi kept his promise, which he proved at the end. That's not going to automatically change Mai's super-depressed state.

Since Mai was saved, Hope felt it was alright to bring back Mai. However, she needed to make sure that Yuuichi will be there for her, so she asked herself. Basically, Yuuichi is needed to make sure Mai won't try to commit suicide again. If she did, there would basically be no point in reviving her.

That's my interpretation.

[Richard 23]

Considering all the interpretations and counter-interpretations I've seen here, Kyoto Animation did their job. They've got people talking about their product and hungry for next week. I can't wait until the next episode (again).

[Devil Doll]

I think you're confusing Hope and Mai together. They're different entities. Mai's powers became separate entities and became the demons. They were connected to Mai, so both can sense each other. Neither were in command of each other.
...
Since Mai was saved, Hope felt it was alright to bring back Mai. However, she needed to make sure that Yuuichi will be there for her, so she asked herself.When Yuuichi returned to Mai in the classroom and told her who he is, a small girl stood next to him, holding his hand. I take that as being Hope, the last surviving demon, guiding Yuuichi back to Mai when he finally understood the message. But if this entity was present during the whole conversation between Mai and Yuuichi she should know that Yuuichi didn't run away from Mai in the first place. Why would she have to ask the same question again?

[Skane]

When Yuuichi returned to Mai in the classroom and told her who he is, a small girl stood next to him, holding his hand. I take that as being Hope, the last surviving demon, guiding Yuuichi back to Mai when he finally understood the message. But if this entity was present during the whole conversation between Mai and Yuuichi she should know that Yuuichi didn't run away from Mai in the first place. Why would she have to ask the same question again?
Confirmation to alleviate any insecurities. :p Remember. Hope has a separate sentience from Mai. She would want Yuuichi to tell it to her directly too.

Honestly, it's not that hard to figure it out. :heh:

Cheers.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Man, you really are intending to pick at every little detail...

That question was meant as a tiny reminder to Yuuichi of what he promised, it's also just a small way for her to have him assure her, some people like that. It doesn't have any bigger, hidden messager to it...

[Ascaloth]

@DanielSong39,

It's not about KyoAni taking elements from their presentation from the AIR anime to use in their adaptation of Kanon. It's about KyoAni using their distinctive style of animation to present Kanon, something that would probably be carried over into a KyoAni adaptation of CLANNAD, should they ever decide to make one. It's something you would have seen before in Makoto's finale in Episode 10, and it's something you will see again later on in a similar vein in the finales of the other girls.

And I still don't see what you meant by drawing parallels from Ayu's arc to the Summer Arc. That simply doesn't make sense to me; they are two different storylines altogether.

@USCPharmacist,

You claimed you were not trashing the storyline, but that was how your previous posts portrayed it. If you think it's confusing, just say so in simple, understandable terms; the "mockery" you employed in the writing of your posts do not give your ideas a single ounce of justice. DD has the same thoughts as you, but you don't see me getting on his case like I do you. Why? Because he presents his thoughts in a coherent manner that invites serious discussion to the topic at hand, and that is something I can respect. Comparing Kanon to a mindless killfest like WOW is not something I can respect.

That is not to say I entirely disagree with your ideas on the episode; after seeing it, I can see how it would be confusing to first-time viewers, too. What I cannot agree with is the way you presented your ideas; to me, it just smacked of "troll", and I know I've gained a reputation here as having generally less patience for trolls than the average forum-goer here, which is why I jumped on you.

That said, I admit I have gotten too far ahead of myself, and have reviewed my own actions in hindsight. Therefore, I extend my sincere apologies to you for my negative behaviour.

[DarrenW]

Well, first off: incredible episode. I think this is Kanon 2k6's best so far.

@Devil Doll
Your earlier list of five (pining, slander, envy, vanity, greed); what is that from? Is that a list of evils that escaped from Pandora's box?

[Skane]

There was never an exact list of what evils escaped from Pandora's Box( or Jar, if you want to be historically accurate). There are however, some descriptions.
However, Pandora's curiosity got the better of her and she opened it, releasing all the misfortunes of mankind: "For ere this the tribes of men lived on earth remote and free from ills [kakoi] and hard toil [ponoi] and heavy sickness [nosoi argaleai] which bring the Keres [baleful spirits] upon men; for in misery men grow old quickly" (Hesiod, Works and Days). Once opened, she shut it in time to keep one thing in the jar: hope 1. The world remained extremely bleak for an unspecified interval, until Pandora "chanced" to revisit the jar again, at which point Hope fluttered out. Thus, mankind always has hope in times of evil.
So we have 'ills', 'hard toils', heavy sickness, 'baleful spirits', and 'rapid aging'.

Seriously though, I don't think we're supposed to draw upon Pandora's Box as an allegory for Mai's demons. There was no forbidden opening or curiosity involved; the far more crucial elements in order to present an allegory of Pandora's Box.

Cheers.

[guuchan]

Wow, you guys really search to the root of things. (Look who's talking :D)

Anyway, U1 said something like "by defeating them (the previous four demons), Mai's arms and legs have become paralyzed" and "when she defeats the last one, she herself will also end up dying together with it". So I assume the five demons represent her arms, legs, and heart.

[Meophist]

Wow, you guys really search to the root of things. (Look who's talking :D)

Anyway, U1 said something like "by defeating them (the previous four demons), Mai's arms and legs have become paralyzed" and "when she defeats the last one, she herself will also end up dying together with it". So I assume the five demons represent her arms, legs, and heart.
I don't remember him saying anything like that. Is it from the game?

In any case, there's still many mysteries about Mai's arc I'm trying to sort out. It's actually quite confusing…

[New/Old]

I am willing to answer to the best of my ability should it be needed. Heh heh. To be honest, I've said this three times since my coming back full time, but will keep going with allowing it to remain out there. Heh heh. :heh:

[Meophist]

Right now I'm just examining the illusion beasts. First, do the animals they resemble have any meaning? I was thinking they might be the zodiac animals, as I think I've seen a pig, bear, and rabbit. Those were in the zodiac, right? I think I also saw a lizard with wings, maybe that's a dragon?

I'm also still not sure what they actually are. I've speculated, but those are just speculations. Are they manistations of Mai's power, or were they created from Mai's power? Is there really a sixth beast, or was it something else? Had there been more monsters from before? Do the illusions actually represent something? If so, what do they represent?

There's alot of unanswered questions. Although something I'm really wondering about is did Mai's power predict Yuuichi's coming, or did it make Yuuichi come?

[Chaos2Frozen]

@Meophist
Erm... We don't have bears in our zodiac =P (And to be picky, our dragons don't have wings either :P)

I believe several posts back people were saying that they were manifestations, and Yuuichi even said it himself... Unless you're thinking that Yuuichi got it wrong...? =)

[Raniie]

The bear isn't in the zodiac symbol. Tiger, Rabbit, Pig, Dragon, Ox is what I gathered. The last one that Mai jump off from the roof top did look like a dragon, but at the same time, it looked like a rabbit during the interior stairwell scene. There's also the chance that these demons can morph into different animal forms at anytime and at will, too, judging by their movements and behavior.

[xxsaznpride]

How can you possibly tell what they looked like? They're more or less invisible, and giving a specific description for something that's invisible is.... kinda... impossible unless you know that's what it is.

The blade that Mai used at the end (don't want to be too specific in case people haven't watched yet)... why wasn't there any blood on it? Did I miss something or was it just meant to be stainless?

[guuchan]

I don't remember him saying anything like that. Is it from the game?
Yep, it's from the game.

Right now I'm just examining the illusion beasts. First, do the animals they resemble have any meaning? I was thinking they might be the zodiac animals, as I think I've seen a pig, bear, and rabbit. Those were in the zodiac, right? I think I also saw a lizard with wings, maybe that's a dragon?
You're thinking too much. :p It's never described in the game that what "form" those demons took in. Maybe it's just randomly drawn in anime, or maybe they're trying to imply something. I doubt it's the latter case. It did mention in the game though, that Mai only knew how to make rabbit (in the "zoo" scene).

I'm also still not sure what they actually are. I've speculated, but those are just speculations. Are they manistations of Mai's power, or were they created from Mai's power? Is there really a sixth beast, or was it something else? Had there been more monsters from before? Do the illusions actually represent something? If so, what do they represent?
As Chaos2Frozen said, they are manifestations of her power. And nope, there wasn't a sixth demon. U1 explicitly stated that Mai purposefully injured the last one and didn't kill it, in order to get U1 out of the school.

There's alot of unanswered questions. Although something I'm really wondering about is did Mai's power predict Yuuichi's coming, or did it make Yuuichi come?
U1 was called forth by Mai's power (the power, aka chibi Mai, aka "hope", said so herself). That's why U1 got lost and "wandered" to the barley field.

[Wrath88]

Great episode, although whether Mai has lost most of her powers remains to be seen. This has been a great build-up, leading to an even better conclusion to her arc, with story, animation, etc.

Still, I wonder how are they going to slip in Shiori. For one thing, if he's to spend time with her, Yuuichi's might have to pass on Sayuri's lunches. I'm looking forward to see how KyoAni will still keep Mai in the story after her arc is over, like with Makoto.

[Deathkillz]

Wow, you guys really search to the root of things. (Look who's talking :D)

Anyway, U1 said something like "by defeating them (the previous four demons), Mai's arms and legs have become paralyzed" and "when she defeats the last one, she herself will also end up dying together with it". So I assume the five demons represent her arms, legs, and heart.
and isnt it juat a miracle that mai managed to move to stab herself even if she was ment to be paralyzed :heh: i guess will power took over ~ and yea by killing the monsters mai was also killing off herself...cause her powers is a part of her and its something that she cannot get rid off without sacrificing herself first...which lead to her being resurrected as the "new" mai...this brings me to think that she will no longer have any powers at all ~

[guuchan]

and isnt it juat a miracle that mai managed to move to stab herself even if she was ment to be paralyzed :heh: i guess will power took over ~
Haha, actually U1 asked her the same thing too. Remember the scene where U1 carried her up the staircase? There's such a dialog in game before he started climbing the stairs:

U1: Argh, you're pretty heavy actually...
U1: You got all the parts developed that you're supposed to.
*(hand)chop*
U1: I thought your arm couldn't move...

Yeah, U1 is quite a pervert in the game. :D

[qwerty4]

perfect episode! beautiful. much better thn the 02 version. i love the scene where she jumps off the toop and slashes it. i wondered afterwards...what if the demon just stepped to the side a bit and let her fall to her doom??? thn what? :heh:

[DarrenW]

perfect episode! beautiful. much better thn the 02 version. i love the scene where she jumps off the toop and slashes it. i wondered afterwards...what if the demon just stepped to the side a bit and let her fall to her doom??? thn what? :heh:

Well, what with super-jumping, smashing fire extinguishers, bloodless stabbing, and Yuuichi being thrown out the window...she'd probably be just fine. Leaping from the roof and landing on her face would cause a mere flesh wound. :)

[nikorai]

hello. im late at the forums. so much has been said already.
i voted for 10 and i hope somebody else gives one more vote for a round score.
what to say, the episode was awesome, i got misty eyes(c) on several occasions.
about seppuku. the scene reminded me of fight club somehow.
on a sidenote, Mai's sword isnt exactly fit for it. one should have a wakizashi and such but then she cared more about the effect and not the process. also im not cynical i was about to get all depressed when i thought it was makoto#2 thing.

[Meophist]

You're thinking too much. :p It's never described in the game that what "form" those demons took in. Maybe it's just randomly drawn in anime, or maybe they're trying to imply something. I doubt it's the latter case. It did mention in the game though, that Mai only knew how to make rabbit (in the "zoo" scene).I was thinking Kyoani might have added something. I know in one scene, in any case, it really looked like a pig. I'm not sure about the others.As Chaos2Frozen said, they are manifestations of her power. And nope, there wasn't a sixth demon. U1 explicitly stated that Mai purposefully injured the last one and didn't kill it, in order to get U1 out of the school.I have a hard time imagining why she would do that.U1 was called forth by Mai's power (the power, aka chibi Mai, aka "hope", said so herself). That's why U1 got lost and "wandered" to the barley field.That's what I was thinking myself actually.

There's alot of stuff missing from the games. I'm going to play the game myself one of these days, although I need Windows first.

[ayukanon45]

well, ive been following kanon from the first series back in toei days. (blech animation) and have played the vn and bought the psp version, and i never understand the mai arc. So, from what i have watched and read, it seems that mai is going to be just a normal girl? or am i just missing something

[Chaos2Frozen]

@Meophist

Actually, it's pretty easy. As Yuuichi said, Mai is quite a selfish person when it comes to other people's feelings. She always places her friends' safety before her own even when they don't need her to...

It's also possible that if she kills the last 'demon' she would also die, and she doesn't want Yuuichi around when it happens...

[Chaos2Frozen]

@Meophist

Forgot to add, to me they look like rabbits... Or at least the one Yuuichi brought outside moves like it. Since the 'demons' were created by Mai, it's possible that they have taken a form that Mai could only create (As in when she only knows how to), which are snow bunnies =)

[Devil Doll]

@Devil Doll
Your earlier list of five (pining, slander, envy, vanity, greed); what is that from? Is that a list of evils that escaped from Pandora's box?I simply looked up Pandora's Box at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora).

Wow, you guys really search to the root of things. (Look who's talking :D)The symbolism-to-text ratio of episode 15 apparently exceeds everything this series gave us so far, thus making it rewarding to try and decode as many of these symbols. (Look at my avatar and you know where I'm coming from.) Plus Mai appears to be the girl with the most complex background (mythology-wise); Makoto's kitsune identity was easier to understand for me, and the girls to come... well, I expect to understand them better than Mai as well.

U1 was called forth by Mai's power (the power, aka chibi Mai, aka "hope", said so herself). That's why U1 got lost and "wandered" to the barley field.Aah! (How are we expected to understand that from the anime alone?) So her power was actually to command people, not to predict the future... making her an even more powerful being... good to know she killed so many demons already. A character with that much power could easily ruin each and every scenario.

Still, I wonder how are they going to slip in Shiori. For one thing, if he's to spend time with her, Yuuichi's might have to pass on Sayuri's lunches....and thus abandon Mai a second time? Outch... we'll see whether his promise to Hope will be worth its salt.

There's something I'm still pondering about: Hope asked Yuuichi "You won't go away this time?" But according to Yuuichi's explanation to Mai only a minute earlier he didn't go away ten years earlier either (at least not permanently). Also, Hope asks Yuuichi "You won't be afraid of me?" which is something Yuuichi never was. Despite the "confirmation" explanation I was given earlier the whole request by Hope appears kind of redundant for me. Effectively Hope asks Yuuichi to do keep a promise he always kept (yes, I'm ignoring that Yuuichi left the town for seven years - but Yuuichi's statement that he returned to the playground nine years ago and didn't find Mai there still stands, so what is he actually to blame for?), it was just Mai's misconception that led her into these ten years of suffering.
Will Yuuichi be able to effectively prevent her from having the same misconception ever again? My bets aren't on Yuuichi staying at Mai's side forever at this point - so would Mai consider anything like Yuuichi assigning a permanent higher priority to some other girl as breaking this promise of "not going away"?
Actually, if this were a real issue then Kanon 2006 would even benefit from it, as it would mean two things: Mai's arc wouldn't be over yet, and it would rely on certain other arcs (not) ending in certain ways. This is an additional challenge for the story writers, as the game might not have had this problem (because it could always focus on one arc and consider the other ones of minor importance).

[Raniie]

I 'think' I might have an idea how episode 16 will be like. This is all pure speculation.

Episode 16 will continue where Episode 15 left off. We'll see Mai waking up in the opening scene with Yuuichi, both staring at each other and exchanging simple dialogue. Probably something along the lines of:

Mai: Yuuichi...?
Yuuichi: Good morning, Mai.
Mai: Welcome back... Yuuichi.
Yuuichi: No, Mai. You're suppose to say "Good Morning" in the morning.
Yuuichi: but, yeah, I'm back.

Yuuichi smiles at Mai and gives her a hug. The scene fades and we see them going to exit the school, with Yuuichi being a clutch for Mai, helping her walk steady. Just as they are about to reach the school gate, they have a shocking-look expression on their face. Then the intro kicks in and as the scene resume.

As they stared ahead of them to see none-other-than Sayuri standing there. Some more dialogue exchanged and probably a thought narration from Yuuchi's mind saying something along the line of, "Ah so with the demons gone, Sayuri's wound must've been healed too." As a bit more dialogue exchanged, they make their departure. Sayuri and Mai going home together and Yuuichi heading back on his own.

-Or...

Episode 16 continuing where Episode 15 left off. We'll see Mai trying to wake up in the opening scene, but being exhausted, she falls back to sleep. Yuuichi *sighs* and carry her out of school. Just as he is about to reach the school gate, while carrying Mai, he has a shocking expression on his face. The Intro kicks in and the scene resumes.

Yuuichi staring ahead to see Sayuri standing at the gate. Either Sayuri calls out Yuuichi and Mai's name first or Yuuichi will call out Sayuri's name first, the voice of both of them mentioning each other's name will wake Mai up. A bit more dialogue being exchanged here and it'll end with them departing. Sayuri will be Mai's clutch now and taking her home. Yuuichi heads home solo.

Then the scene fade out and in with Yuuichi waking up in his bed.

At this point, if I continue to speculate about the preview scenes, it'll contain some spoil elements from Toei's version. So I won't continue.

Of course, it will probably not end up like that, it's just a wild scene I painted in my head. Again, it's just a speculation.

[nani]

This is my first time to give out a 10. Even I had watched Kanon 02 and knew what was left out from the previous version, this episode still manges to make me teary. Again, well done KyoAni!


My speculation on how episode 16 will proceed based on the Preview


http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/7963/untitled1ec0.th.jpg (http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled1ec0.jpg)

The background looks like a hospital. My speculation is that the episode will begin by Yuuichi and Ayu paying a visit to Mai/Sayuri in the hospital. Just when they are about to leave, they meet Shiori who is in the hospital for a medical checkup, as mentioned by her in the previous episode.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Just finished episode 15...Blew me away, it did, thanks to the awesome job with Kyoani's animation, the shockingly simple yet interesting story behind Mai's demons and the more emotional scenes.

-It's unbelievable how they managed to slip in a few bits of humor in between the load of action and seriousness of the situation Yuuichi and Mai were in. The knock on the head by Yuuichi served very much to relieve some of the tension that had been built up, and could have tricked first-time Kanonists into thinking "Ahh...It's all over, finally. So they can have a nice, quiet explanation about the demons and somehow get their asses hauled out of this terrible mess without Four-Eyes having to breath down their backs."

-It was quite entertaining and refreshing to see Mai actually showing a whole lot more of her emotions with Yuuichi in danger and with everything seemingly over after the slaying of the last demon. First there was worry, and next came relief and perhaps some cheer, not forgetting more emotional parts.

-Having the tendency not to think too deeply, the five demons all probably represented some form of negative emotion from Mai when Yuuichi left. Maybe it has something to do with feelings of Despair, Sadness, Loneliness, Confusion and Desperation? I'm not too sure, just speculating here. At least that's how I see it. :)

-I loved Mai's background story in her past. It was so very simple yet was able to play the heartstrings of a lot of viewers easily. The part about her moving because she was deemed a 'freak' or being 'weird' was a little dubious, though. What should have elevated her to greater status and perhaps earn a little awe from 'normal' people transformed into a lack of understanding on the latters' part, thus isolating and branding her an irregularity was a little...out of place.

*Pardon me, but it's just something I want to note so far, without knowing a tiny bit of Ayu's or Nayuki's arc at all: Mai's and Yuuichi's meeting almost seemed fairy-tale to me, having someone who not only likes and wants to play with you, but not shying away from your seemingly abnormal powers must have done wonders to heal Mai's soul.

Aside from that, what could have attributed to Mai's attitude up to the time when Yuuichi first met her 10 years later could have been the fact that Mai was volleyed between a state of ecstatic happiness and another of unhappiness.

1) Mai's initial cheery attitude darkens with the supposed coming of her mother's demise.
2) She returns from the edge of utter despair for her mother by hoping, thus 'resurrecting; her.
3) Then she's shut off in loneliness from people of her own age by discrimination due to her ability to bring about a miracle.
4)Yuuichi comes into her life, and once again it's filled with color.
5)Under the mistaken impression that Yuuichi was also afraid of her powers, she requests that they fight demons together out of desperation.
6) Yuuichi still leaves, and she's left waiting, and waiting, and waiting...Until U1 shows up again 10 years later.

-And yes, finally I get to see Yuuichi making two rivers with his eyes. Yet another display of his character depth with such a display of emotion instead of just simply being mentally strong and the wisecracking, teasing dude we've seen save for the end of Makoto's arc. Perhaps his reaction was greater this time because of the 'suffering' Mai had been through waiting for him all this while to turn up and also because of the fact that he was connected to her more as a childhood playmate and friend.

-For honorary mention, the BGM changes were subtle but good for the atmosphere everytime the situation changed, be it the flashback, the action or the slight rest for Yuuichi and Mai when looking for the "last" demon.

This episode gets nothing less than a 10 from me, despite one or two discrepancies, because even if I only almost shed tears, the important thing is this episode stirred my emotions the most so far, and will probably be the best one at doing so until I see the rest of the arcs, that is.

From the preview, I'm eagerly awaiting any possible signs of subtle build-up for Nayuki's arc (note her somewhat worried/concerned/chagrined expression) and the first foray into Shiori's arc. Although I can't say I await the next one with as much eagerness as every Mai episode, I'm nonetheless anxious to watch episode 16. :)

No more Mai? Hopefully not...;)

EDIT: For those who don't understand a thing about Mai's scenario here...Well, it comes as a surprise, especially if someone as simple-minded as me can actually understand even just an inkling of what's going on with the help of Yuuichi's explanations and Mai's past. :heh:

[Skane]

I am still holding out for a further explanation and development of Mai's parting with Yuuichi in the later episodes. If they include that, I will rate the overall series' score higher. If they don't... well, sucks to be a Mai fan I guess. I dream of a Kanon adaptation where the main focus is Mai, and they animate her epic arc in full and in its' complete glory, darnit. :heh:

*sniffle*

[houkoholic]

-I loved Mai's background story in her past. It was so very simple yet was able to play the heartstrings of a lot of viewers easily. The part about her moving because she was deemed a 'freak' or being 'weird' was a little dubious, though. What should have elevated her to greater status and perhaps earn a little awe from 'normal' people transformed into a lack of understanding on the latters' part, thus isolating and branding her an irregularity was a little...out of place.


Not in Japanese culture though.

While Western society are more favourable towards uniqueness and individualism, Japanese society is still more or less a conformist society. Being different in Japan usually comes with a hefty price, whether you're a foreigner, otaku, or a homosexual, let alone something as "freaky" as a person with psychic healing powers. Being different is most usually looked down upon or made fun of. "Ijime" (bullying) is a very serious problem in Japanese schools from all ages, and they usually stems from a group of kids ganging up on the different/weird kid, and those that be friends or stands up to them are usually bullied too, and unlike in America where you can start suing people left and right and hold teachers schools and whatever for responsiblity, let's say things in Japan don't work that way and they try to keep things hush hush. Japan has an unusally high rate of kid/teenage suicides preciously due to bullying and it is recognised as a huge nation wide social problem. I can see why Mai's mother would have opted her to move to a different place to start anew for Mai.

[Owaranai Destiny]

I am still holding out for a further explanation and development of Mai's parting with Yuuichi in the later episodes. If they include that, I will rate the overall series' score higher. If they don't... well, sucks to be a Mai fan I guess. I dream of a Kanon adaptation where the main focus is Mai, and they animate her epic arc in full and in its' complete glory, darnit. :heh:

*sniffle*

You're not the only one around here. Her arc gave rise to a temptation of mine to see her as a main female lead instead, with her story being evenly paced out with a few fun-filled episodes thrown in between. Oh well...One can wish, can't we? ;)

Not in Japanese culture though.

While Western society are more favourable towards uniqueness and individualism, Japanese society is still more or less a conformist society. Being different in Japan usually comes with a hefty price, whether you're a foreigner, otaku, or a homosexual, let alone something as "freaky" as a person with psychic healing powers. Being different is most usually looked down upon or made fun of. "Ijime" (bullying) is a very serious problem in Japanese schools from all ages, and they usually stems from a group of kids ganging up on the different/weird kid, and those that be friends or stands up to them are usually bullied too, and unlike in America where you can start suing people left and right and hold teachers schools and whatever for responsiblity, let's say things in Japan don't work that way and they try to keep things hush hush. Japan has an unusally high rate of kid/teenage suicides preciously due to bullying and it is recognised as a huge nation wide social problem. I can see why Mai's mother would have opted her to move to a different place to start anew for Mai.


Ah...That explains it. Looks like I've still not matured enough to be more immune to western cultural influences more inherent in my country. Nothing like someone with a better (and tighter) grasp of the culture to explain it. Thanks. :D

Another thing I'm pondering about: What exactly brought about Mai's appearance on that silly TV show or something like that, or rather, why did her mother bring her to that if (a very big if here) she understood the repercussions of such an action to her daughter?

I'm not saying she's being irresponsible, but simply just wondering about this. :)

[Shana-tan]

Another thing I'm pondering about: What exactly brought about Mai's appearance on that silly TV show or something like that, or rather, why did her mother bring her to that if (a very big if here) she understood the repercussions of such an action to her daughter?

I'm not saying she's being irresponsible, but simply just wondering about this. :)


Maybe someone of the hospital were Mai's mother "revive" told to some... uh... freak of a tv show about Mai, they insisted to show Mai's power... or something like that... I dunno... happen a lot of times... like those freaky reality show where they even paid to "normal citizen" to show off in those kind of program

Sorry for my bad english, I don't know exactly how to explain this...

About the episode... this is my first time posting and voting... I give it a 10, I loved the episode... maybe because I feel identify in more ways that I would like with Mai (don't talk to much... people fear me when I was a kid... Mom's sickness... very serious person... even her sad/mysterious look...)

EDIT: If it wasn't like that and Mai's mother really "exposed" her daughter... I really hate her...

[houkoholic]

In the game it was explained to be Mai's relatives which turned her into a freak show, but they really didn't have time to put that in.

[Shana-tan]

In the game it was explained to be Mai's relatives which turned her into a freak show, but they really didn't have time to put that in.

what??? those ****ing bastards!! :frustrated: :frustrated:

and only for the bloody money...

thanks for explain this houkoholic

[Meophist]

Since Makoto's arc ended with the ending sequence, I think Mai's arc might end with the opening sequence.

Either way…Not in Japanese culture though.I don't think it's exclusively so just in Japanese culture. Or maybe it is, I don't know. Much of my understanding of Japanese culture comes subconsciously so I have difficulty separating what's part of Japanese culture and what isn't. However, doesn't similar things happen in western culture?In the game it was explained to be Mai's relatives which turned her into a freak show, but they really didn't have time to put that in.I had a feeling it was something like that. I didn't think it was Mai's mother who put her in in any case.

There was something else I wanted to say, but I forgot what it was.

[Vexx]

In western culture, until quite recently, they burned people for being different. Westerners do respect individuality more but don't blind yourself that "fear or hatred of the different" is unique to Japan. The first time I brought a girl home who was "not my color" it was quite fascinating to watch my mother go from a trendy liberal to a scared racist. (I eventually married that girl anyway... some thanks to my dad who was very supportive)

@Mai's arc: KyoAni will score uber points with me if Mai's arc continues even by finishing out in little bits and pieces --- almost like real life doesn't transition at the commercial break. Obviously we couldn't see that play out with Makoto but with Mai we'll see how KyoAni handles the "post arc period" with the girls.

[Meophist]

In western culture, until quite recently, they burned people for being different. Westerners do respect individuality more but don't blind yourself that "fear or hatred of the different" is unique to Japan..I think I get it, but I'm still not too sure if Mai's situation will change too much if the story took place in a western country.

I've been to Japan before. Heck, I've gone to school in Japan before. I was just a small kid, so I don't remember too well, but I do remember hating it(for many reasons). I don't remember being picked on though. I mean, sure I'm Japanese myself, but I imagine I was pretty different from the others from growing up in Canada. Maybe I was just too stupid to realise if they were picking on me. Or maybe I was just lucky.

[FatPianoBoy]

Another thing I'm pondering about: What exactly brought about Mai's appearance on that silly TV show or something like that, or rather, why did her mother bring her to that if (a very big if here) she understood the repercussions of such an action to her daughter?

Mai's mother appears to be quite poor. Her hospital stay probably racked up quite a tab, too. People don't often appear on those kinds for free (especially if they're initially reluctant), or her mother could have hoped that people would be able to see the incredibly beneficial nature of Mai's ability and accept her based on that.

[Meophist]

Err... speaking of which, how expensive is health care in Japan? A bunch of characters are having quite a few visits to the hospital, so it kinda makes me wonder.

[Vexx]

Basic health care is universal (everyone pays into a central fund) ... preventative health care is pushed (all those exercises in the park, for example). Over all, its pretty good but shaky on the edges (exotic treatments, mental health care is really shaky).

[panzerfan]

There is also corporate coverage for health care. I am not sure about the respective plan coverage detail though.

[FatPianoBoy]

Ah; so likely very little (if any) expenses incurred for the hospital stay, then. I'm not too up on the particulars Japanese health care (perhaps I should go read Monster), so forgive me :heh:

[Meophist]

Basic health care is universal (everyone pays into a central fund) ... preventative health care is pushed (all those exercises in the park, for example). Over all, its pretty good but shaky on the edges (exotic treatments, mental health care is really shaky).
I figured it would be something like that. I most anime I watch, characters don't seem to be worried about health care costs for whenever they go to the hospital.

[Ascaloth]

Not in Japanese culture though.

While Western society are more favourable towards uniqueness and individualism, Japanese society is still more or less a conformist society. Being different in Japan usually comes with a hefty price, whether you're a foreigner, otaku, or a homosexual, let alone something as "freaky" as a person with psychic healing powers. Being different is most usually looked down upon or made fun of. "Ijime" (bullying) is a very serious problem in Japanese schools from all ages, and they usually stems from a group of kids ganging up on the different/weird kid, and those that be friends or stands up to them are usually bullied too, and unlike in America where you can start suing people left and right and hold teachers schools and whatever for responsiblity, let's say things in Japan don't work that way and they try to keep things hush hush. Japan has an unusally high rate of kid/teenage suicides preciously due to bullying and it is recognised as a huge nation wide social problem. I can see why Mai's mother would have opted her to move to a different place to start anew for Mai.

And even so, you can still see hints of xenophobia in Western society. It's hidden, but it's there.

A Westerner studying Mai's arc in detail might draw parallels to her situation with that of Marvel's X-Men. And anyone of us here familiar with the X-Men would know the way these 'freaks' were secluded from society against their will. Granted, it's fiction, but then so is Mai. And such stories really tell you a lot about the society in which they take place.

Dunno if I'm making sense, but anyway.

[Sinestra]

I was thinking watching Kanon 2006 and watching some of the more difficult and emotional scenes iv realized that i didnt get as upset in the original version as i am with 2006 im not sure why though. Even though the Mai arc drove me crazy in both. Anyone else feel this way?


Ascaloth very well said i agree with wholeheartedly. IMO weather its the west or east not fitting in or being different from what that society considers normal usually does come with a heavy price. I find it funny that usually being different or labeled a freak, geek, nerd, otaku is considered a bad thing or looked down upon. But when you look back in history a lot of great people were not what you call the norm of society.

[houkoholic]

The major difference as far as I can see is, in Western society you would be encouraged to stand up for yourself, and it's more likely that someone would stand up for you or help you to do so, however in Japanese culture it doesn't swing that way usually. "The nail that sticks out gets hammered down" does more or less describe how it works, you're expected to just suck it up and live with it.

The X-Men analogy kind of help explain this in a sense, because you would see the mutants forming their own groups and standup for themselves (either in good ways or bad ways), but in Japan, you are more likely to just stay weird and out of the way. Even looking back at a character like Amano is a bit of an indication of how it works.

[Owaranai Destiny]

And even so, you can still see hints of xenophobia in Western society. It's hidden, but it's there.

A Westerner studying Mai's arc in detail might draw parallels to her situation with that of Marvel's X-Men. And anyone of us here familiar with the X-Men would know the way these 'freaks' were secluded from society against their will. Granted, it's fiction, but then so is Mai. And such stories really tell you a lot about the society in which they take place.

Dunno if I'm making sense, but anyway.

You are making sense.

I'm guessing this xenophobia comes from the fact that an 'abnormality' such as Mai in their otherwise normal lives is something inexplicable. Perhaps it is in the nature of some humans to fear the unexplained, which they deemed as strange while a terribly few others sought to seek out the answers (coming in the form of paranormal investigators we see so often in novels or TV shows).


@ Sinestra: I don't know much about the 2k2 version, but perhaps it was the mix of good animation and well-placed music that stirred your emotions more? :) The voice acting plays a good part, too.

@ houkoholic: That would seem about just right, but sometimes it isn't really 'encouragement'. Sometimes people like Mai might be forced to change and adhere to the norm of society, letting the latter assimilate them and "turn them into normal" so they can have more people to talk to and in a way, less discrimination instead of sticking out like a sore thumb for the wrong reasons in other people's eyes.

[Vexx]

Some of the "why aren't I as moved this time?" remarks may be purely due to previous exposure. Even if you don't know *exactly* what is going to happen, anyone who watched Kanon 2002 or played the game is going to have a *fair* idea of the situation so it just won't have the same impact.

Whatever else Kanon 2002 was ... it did make a big impact on me as I had no preconceived ideas about the story or plot ... I was just told "watch this!" and it blew away any previous opinions I'd had about anime. For me, 2006 is like watching a favorite Shakespearean play being done... but one where they leave more of the scenes in and fewer tweaks.

@houkolic: in Western society, you're encouraged to stand up for yourself.... but not if you're too different. Don't mistake the exceptions (some urban coastal areas) for the norm (small town USA). It isn't nearly as bad here only because ... if people don't like me in Stupidville, I can always move to Clueville. Japan is just more homogenous in some ways (though it can still vary -- okay in Tokyo does not necessarily equal okay in Hokkaido).