Death Note download rights licensed by Viz Media [Archive]

the.Merines

2007-01-11, 11:10

I found it strange that Viz Media should choose this route. Rather than come out and simply announce the license acquisition, they make a point to push a specific way for fans to get access to the Death Note anime. I don't know whether this is a jab/olive branch extended specifically towards fansub downloaders, or if Viz really thinks that having "Download to Own" or "Download to Rent" rights is their own (legal) alternative to fansubbed episodes.

I think the success of this method of distribution will be based on a lot of things, several of which I doubt Viz will do much about. Personally, I'll be waiting for the DVD releases to begin (which will probably take months). I don't like the idea of paying for data.

Also, at first I assumed that the legal downloads would be subbed, but there is no guarantee of that. Imagine the outcry if only dubbed episodes were released though this online process... :heh:

Rahan

2007-01-11, 11:15

Press release: http://www.animeondvd.com/news/pr.php?pr_view=915

Oddly one of the companies that listens to fans the least [...]|b]is trying to please the fansub downloader[/b]... or so it seems, as they've secured the download rights to Death Note. They probably have the DVD rights too, but that's not specifically mentioned.

They are not trying to please the fansub downloaders, they are buying the authority to sue the fansubbers and the certainty to "win" the trial.

bayoab

2007-01-11, 11:28

They are not trying to please the fansub downloaders, they are buying the authority to sue the fansubbers and the certainty to "win" the trial.
If they wanted to sue subbers (who continued after licensing), they wouldn't even need these rights and they would win. This argument is vacuous.

atilim

2007-01-11, 12:27

Either way there motive isn't to please fansub downloader, a lot of people won't be able to watch because it will only be available at the US.

[/QUOTE]We are pleased to team with a leading anime and manga company like VIZ Media to bring the DEATH NOTE anime series to eager fans in the United States digitally,” states NTV Spokesperson. “VIZ Media understands how the Internet can be used to distribute content. With a built-in fan base already generated by the popularity of the DEATH NOTE manga series, we are looking forward to the success of this innovative partnership.[/QUOTE]

So either way somebody outside wouldn't be able to get his hands on Death Note, and for a country like Holland were the closest thing to a anime is pokemon meens that I won't be able to watch this show.

Also I would like to ask GHDpro ho I see also comes from Holland if he knows any decent and legit way too still watch this show.

VRMN

2007-01-11, 12:49

Either way there motive isn't to please fansub downloader, a lot of people won't be able to watch because it will only be available at the US.

We are pleased to team with a leading anime and manga company like VIZ Media to bring the DEATH NOTE anime series to eager fans in the United States digitally,” states NTV Spokesperson. “VIZ Media understands how the Internet can be used to distribute content. With a built-in fan base already generated by the popularity of the DEATH NOTE manga series, we are looking forward to the success of this innovative partnership.

So either way somebody outside wouldn't be able to get his hands on Death Note, and for a country like Holland were the closest thing to a anime is pokemon meens that I won't be able to watch this show.

Also I would like to ask GHDpro ho I see also comes from Holland if he knows any decent and legit way too still watch this show.

Personally, I'd be surprised if Viz tried to make it so you couldn't download it outside of the United States.

The only real way I can see them sucessfully doing so is if they require you to have a U.S. credit card. If they did so, that's basically throwing away money from the international anime watching community...which is something I don't see them doing.

atilim

2007-01-11, 12:59

I'm become 19 a couple of month's ago, I still go to school and can't work properly because of internship wich doesn't pay very well. Also taking other cost like for example paying for school and driving lessons I don't have much money left.
Also taking creditcards isn't much populair in Holland

VRMN

2007-01-11, 13:19

How did you expect to buy anything on the Internet without a credit card? I mean, PayPal maybe, but, really, credit/debit cards are the de facto standard for online purchases.

I understand that other purchases can (and should) take priority over entertainment purchases, but "I'm going to have trouble paying for it" isn't a reason to steal it (which is what it would be now that it's licensed, like it or not).

GHDpro

2007-01-11, 13:20

Fansubs are a form of copyright infringement, whether the series is licensed or not. For a series to be licensed in a English speaking territory merely makes it more likely for English language websites to get into trouble for listing/hosting such fansubs, plus there is the whole moral/ethical issue regarding the original purpose of fansubs.

Anyway, apart from simply ignoring license status and finding fansubs of it elsewhere (something that AnimeSuki does not allow to be discussed in detail and does not officially approve of), I don't think you'll be able to get it in Holland any time soon. You could bypass country rules or crack DRM or whatnot... but it wouldn't be any different from just getting the "illegal" fansub, IMHO.

The real problem with this might be though that I fear the downloads may have some absurd DRM rules attached to them (like only play a few times or on few devices) or are low quality compared even to fansubs, or are simply expensive (like $4.99 per episode), or all of the above. As I mention in my post, Viz Media isn't exactly known to be a fan pleaser, they like to do things their own way even if it pisses everyone off.

As for getting a creditcard in Holland... easy. If you have an account at the Postbank, you open a student account and you can get a creditcard with it. That's how I've had my creditcard for years now (even though I don't really have enough income to qualify for a creditcard otherwise). Creditcards may not be popular here, but they're essential if you want to shop online.

chaos_alfa

2007-01-11, 13:20

What if you're not in the US?
While a large part of the visitors of AnimeSuki are from the US and Canada, not all of them are of course. Those people might be thinking: "If anime is licensed in the US, what has that to do with me? Why stop fansubbing? Why remove it from AnimeSuki?". AnimeSuki's view on this is that the US is the largest market for English subbed and dubbed anime, therefore once anime is licensed in the US all English fansubbing of it should stop.

If you're not from the US, this means you can still download non-English fansubs of the same series (if it's not licensed in your region as well). Alternatively you could also import the DVDs when they are released in the US. It is not expensive to do so if you order directly from online DVD shops in the US. You will need a region free DVD player of course, but even those are easy to get - just ask around or check out The Firmware Page to make your DVD-ROM drive region free.

Source:
http://www.animesuki.com/doc.php/licensed/

P.S. i'm from Holland to

GHDpro

2007-01-11, 13:31

If you're not from the US, this means you can still download non-English fansubs of the same series (if it's not licensed in your region as well). Alternatively you could also import the DVDs when they are released in the US. It is not expensive to do so if you order directly from online DVD shops in the US. You will need a region free DVD player of course, but even those are easy to get - just ask around or check out The Firmware Page to make your DVD-ROM drive region free.
Nice, but notice how it says non-English fansubs there. And I can't think of ever seeing a Dutch fansub, ever (there probably exist a few, but they're quite rare). You could of course still get the German, French or Spanish fansubs, but er... I'm real bad at reading subtitles in any language other than Dutch or English, like most Dutch people.

Importing the DVDs isn't really an option either in this case, as a US DVD release is some time off (the press release talks about legal downloads, which may be country locked if for example they use something like iTunes Movie Store or require a US creditcard or something) and a Japanese DVD release would be quite expensive to buy (and you still need to hunt for subtitles to be able to understand anything).

Sookan

2007-01-11, 14:39

Personally, I take it as a great loss that the series has been licensed, and to add insult to injury, by Viz Media.
Of course they're only trying to make money. That's the way the world is. They're not buying the license to convenience anybody or provide even a half decent service for your money.
I'm from the UK, so while I could download it subbed in dutch/swedish/whatever, I wouldn't be able to understand it and would probably have more luck just watching the RAW -.-.
I don't plan on publicising what I'm going to do from now on, but I must say that now my two favourite fansubbers are no longer subbing the series, I'm going to be very resentful of doing it.

atilim

2007-01-11, 16:18

bayoab

2007-01-11, 16:33

GHDpro taking a creditcard wouldn't make me loved by my parents though, especially for buying things like dvd's.
Also Death Nothe will be DRM for USA only because the say ''eager fans in the United States digitally'', so we woudn't be able to watch it any way.
Actually, it might not be DRM'd for the US but just only available for purchase by US people. We don't know anything about the DRM scheme yet so this is all pointless speculation.

Also from the other thread, the reason DVDs probably aren't announced yet is they are probably still 8+ months away and therefore they do not want to announce anything until they get closer. There is no way they are not going to sell DVDs of this series.

v1cious

2007-01-11, 16:48

this could really stir up controversy among the fansub community. i personally hope a lot of companies jump on this idea. my only concern is the prices, will they be reasonable?

M.D. Geist

2007-01-11, 17:31

i hope the german subs are decent enough... Will take some time for "us" to license DNote ... (well anime market in germany is a joke ... worst example of how to ruin a hit series is Naruto )

Ama no Kagaseo

2007-01-11, 18:14

Personally, I can't help but feel a little irritated. It feels like rather than Viz being the leader in.. Whatever the hell they said at AnimeOnDVD. It feels more like they're the leader in absolutely screwing an anime over, as well as the community.

And considering how 'piracy' politics have been going? I wouldn't be surprised if they did this JUST to find an easier way to start destroying the fansubbing community, because let's face it. Because someone is getting it for free, even if they haven't secured the rights to it, some how they think they're still losing money.

This, of course, is just a general statement.

I don't know, of course, and my statements may be incorrect and misguided. I'm still a rather big newbie when it comes to these things. I've known I liked anime since I was little [ I watched My Neighbor Totoro when I was five.] but at the same time I've only known anime as in the movies and series, and never looked at the studios and companies behind it.

Of course, this also applies to the politics of the internet, I'm still a newbie and still learning. Viz, over time, has just made me bitter. e.e

guest

2007-01-11, 23:37

I hope Viz can do this as "fansubbing" style, that is, getting it out in a few days after airing in Japan, only sub version, and having reasonable price. If quality is not as good as dvd, I don't mind. If they are going to do a dub version for download, that would make this fast pace impossible. In that case, this "download your anime" business might not work. They can just do dub version for dvd.

I think it is not possible for them to limit download in US only. They will have to release them to the global community or, well, it will be hard to kill off piracy as they migh have hope.

Zu Ra

2007-01-12, 00:24

Z0Rr0rex

2007-01-12, 00:24

It's all clear to me. Viz media shall create a website where people will be able to watch the Death Note episodes streamed, like in youtube or crunchyroll.

You'll have to register, be bombarded with a barrage of ads, watch it in its crappiest form for free, or pay them some dough and watch it fullscreen on a higher resolution.

You will not be able to download it though, that's for sure.

Zu Ra

2007-01-12, 00:26

Legally Dwnld it ( no thing called legal downloads ) , think ban will be strictly enforced in only region 1

bayoab

2007-01-12, 02:24

Its ironical in a way Deat Note's immense Popularity led to its demise . If it was any other anime Viz wouldnt have blocked fansubbing . I know lot many people who started subscribing to fansubs and actually downloading anime after DT started airingDeath Note was popular before it was an anime. It was clear that it was going to get licensed long ago and the deals in one shape or another had already been signed at least before episode 8. Viz did not block fansubbing. Ethical fansubbers drop series when they are officially announced. Someone is free to go and try and continue subbing it but is more liable to getting sued than before it was announced.

You will not be able to download it though, that's for sure.
Incorrect. The press release clearly states download to rent and download to own are going to the be the options.

As a whole, Death Note fans are acting worse than both the Narutards and Bleechers when the respective series got licensed.

Uchiha-kaze

2007-01-12, 11:02

As a whole, Death Note fans are acting worse than both the Narutards and Bleechers when the respective series got licensed.
Naturally, people fear the unknown, and this is new territory for Viz so its up in the air how it will turn out. I doubt it will be a huge success because of all the other readily available ways to get Death Note on the internet.

Electroguy

2007-01-12, 13:36

Any word from L-E or Toryama about how they're responding to the news?

Will we still provide a mirror here @ animesuki?

Mods - My apologies if mentioning the fansubbers is in contradiction to new rules. In a bit of a rush will check things out properly when I return.

FatPianoBoy

2007-01-12, 13:49

As a whole, Death Note fans are acting worse than both the Narutards and Bleechers when the respective series got licensed.

But they were looking at DVD releases. We don't even know for sure if there will be R1 DVD's at all.

Dagger

2007-01-12, 13:51

Yes we do, because Viz stated it right here (http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/9891.html). :rolleyes:

Ardea

2007-01-12, 14:49

I'm kind of surprised, but then when you think about it... that was a smart move by Viz. With the increasing popularity of video-sharing websites and downloading of all sorts of media, I guess it's hard not to cash in on the popularity in some way. Cash is cash, after all.

Well, I hope Death Note is treated well by Viz :(

FatPianoBoy

2007-01-12, 15:26

Yes we do, because Viz stated it right here (http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/9891.html). :rolleyes:

If you haven't seen it, it's news to you ;)

the.Merines

2007-01-12, 16:19

Any word from "removed' about how they're responding to the news?

Will we still provide a mirror here @ animesuki?
" groups removed to comply with rules" have both taken down the links to their trackers for DN; subbing by these groups will not continue. The torrent links have already been taken off Animesuki and won't come back.

Took me about 30 seconds to find this stuff out. :p

Dissidia

2007-01-12, 17:51

Suggestion to the mods, shouldn't this thread be pinned so that other people would notice it? :D

piccahoe

2007-01-12, 17:54

I would give up on the anime since Viz Media has licensed it and read the manga instead. Its basiclly the same thing and you don't have to wait another two years before they begin dubbing it. Also, almost all of the death manga are out! I think the latest one is 9th volume right?

Crystal_Method

2007-01-12, 18:02

Also I would like to ask GHDpro ho I see also comes from Holland if he knows any decent and legit way too still watch this show.

I don't know if this will help you, but there's a few French subbers doing the show. (French happens to be very similar to English.) The only way to actually watch a show legitimately is either by buying the dvds or watching it on tv. Luckily I know French, but if I do find a way to pay for each episode I'd rather do that. Is there any articles saying the price range for each episode? I looked at the links given in previous posts, but it wasn't mentioned.

Zu Ra

2007-01-12, 18:29

I don't know if this will help you, but there's a few French subbers doing the show. (French happens to be very similar to English.) Luckily I know French, but if I do find a way to pay for each episode I'd rather do that. .

French and Epsanol subbers have continued subbing it I guess its okay as english and region 1 were the only criterion mentioned by Viz

Razz

2007-01-12, 19:38

Goddamnit, again I'm left regretting slacking during french classes. :heh:

Personally, I'd rather watch the anime (legally or not) than give up and resort to the manga. The anime's quality is so high that it just wouldn't be the same with just text.

defrule

2007-01-12, 19:43

Being in the UK, I guess I won't be able to watch DN until it comes out here. hmm

Ezen

2007-01-13, 01:01

VIZ has screwed death note over.

NoSanninWa

2007-01-13, 01:24

Shouldn't you wait to see how well it is subbed before drawing such a conclusion?

Scep

2007-01-13, 03:31

Kaioshin Sama

2007-01-13, 03:47

NoSanninWa

2007-01-13, 05:26

Well by right they are trying to cash in on the market. What remains to see is how much they charge for it or something. if the cost is like 4.99 a episode and there are like 50 episodes, count me out. 200 bucks?
There are only 39 episodes. And 4.99 per episode is not out of line with standard DVD prices. 3 eps per DVD at 4.99 per ep = 14.97 per DVD. Though I expect more of a 3.99 per ep price. (At 4 eps per DVD :) that would be 15.96)

Sorrow-K

2007-01-13, 07:35

Apparentely the DVD's will be dubbed. Whether that means dub only I don't know, but I don't think so. Unfortunately the source on ANN is missing in action but your can read the headline on today's entry still on the main news page.Anime DVDs haven't been dub only for millennia.There are only 39 episodes. And 4.99 per episode is not out of line with standard DVD prices. 3 eps per DVD at 4.99 per ep = 14.97 per DVD. Though I expect more of a 3.99 per ep price. (At 4 eps per DVD :) that would be 15.96)Even US$4 is pretty steep. I don't know what the exchange rate is at the moment, but I'd imagine that'd be close to AU$6. At 4 eps per DVD, that's $24, which beats out brand new DVDs at $30, but has no dub or any other of the perks that come with buying DVDs. And to watch the online subs, you'd be pretty much buying the series twice, since almost all who purchase them will inevitably buy the DVDs as well. Hmm... if Viz dropped a dollar on that price, then we can start doing business. Otherwise, I'm not so sure...

My suspicion is that they will charge on the high side of things, since this is more likely than not aimed at the hardcore fans willing to throw a bit of cash around to be among the first to see it. The alternative is that they'll charge low to try to get more involved, but they'd have to advertise craploads to get enough interest for the thing to be profitable in that case (whatever "profitable" means to Viz in this case). The latter would probably lead to more DVD sales, but Viz might not see the amount of effort and advertising required to increase the exposure of the series to be worth it. </speculation>

sabret00the

2007-01-13, 08:20

Ultimately as a UK citizen, moves like this really just awaken me to my suppressed realisations that the one thing that's grossly needed especially for fans (like me), even if it just fast tracks the UK to synch with the US is www.animesuki.co.uk and UK Based Fansubbing Groups. I would absolutely love to see a wave of Region 2 (UK) based fansubbing groups pop up.

Death Note was without a doubt one of the best things to come out in 2006 and it's loss is a great one. I honestly despise the way that so many English, Scottish, Irish, and of course other English speaking/reading Europeans are penalised for a market in which we can't even play their DVD's.

Varion

2007-01-13, 10:14

http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/9891.html
The Death Note DVDs, which have not yet been scheduled, will be the English dubbed version; the download will be the subtitled version.

...

We do not see these two distribution areas as mutually exclusive and believe that fans who want to catch the official version via download to own (subtitled version) closer to Japan's release date will also collect the home video (dubbed version) to have the physical product for their shelves and their collections.
Think this is what Kaioshin was referring to. I may have just read it wrong though. No one would be that stupid, right?

bayoab

2007-01-13, 10:51

http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/9891.html

Think this is what Kaioshin was referring to. I may have just read it wrong though. No one would be that stupid, right?

It's not a case of reading it wrong. It's just very poorly phrased. This is Viz, they have made stupid decisions before. The main key is "We do not see these two distribution areas as mutually exclusive" which I'm not sure if they mean that they assume there are
a) subwatchers who want DVDs too.
b) subwatchers who want a dub too.

The wording suggests a) is what they are trying to say and that they consider the two mediums targeted at different people by "sub version" and "dub version". (Which is true since most people who buy dvds are after the dub.)

(Reminder: not mutually exclusive => A intersect B is non-empty )

sabret00the

2007-01-13, 11:31

Going back to what i posted earlier, just what is the ratio of region1:region2 visitors on this site?

bayoab

2007-01-13, 11:52

Going back to what i posted earlier, ...

Ultimately as a UK citizen, moves like this really just awaken me to my suppressed realisations that the one thing that's grossly needed especially for fans (like me), even if it just fast tracks the UK to synch with the US is www.animesuki.co.uk and UK Based Fansubbing Groups. I would absolutely love to see a wave of Region 2 (UK) based fansubbing groups pop up.
Getting back to turn this into a pile of rubble, licenses vary between R1 and English language. The companies rarely clarify which one they have. Therefore UK fansubbing groups would be under the exact same restrictions most of the time until a company explicity says which one their license covers. Yes, you can get a license without planning to release it, it is perfectly legal and you can't do crap about it.

Lilith

2007-01-13, 14:01

It was inveitable. I'm happy it's licensed because Death Note is an awesome story and the anime is top notch with great quality (I hope MadHouse is happy and will work harder).

However... in the end, I'm just a poor leecher. :heh: Please allow me to feel sad and grieve for a while. I couldn't continue reading the manga because it was licensed, so I thought I'll be able to see Near's arc. Oh well~ Just wait until I get munneh! :o

sabret00the

2007-01-13, 14:38

Getting back to turn this into a pile of rubble, licenses vary between R1 and English language. The companies rarely clarify which one they have. Therefore UK fansubbing groups would be under the exact same restrictions most of the time until a company explicity says which one their license covers. Yes, you can get a license without planning to release it, it is perfectly legal and you can't do crap about it.

I think if you actually do the research you'll find that most licenses cover North America and Canada explicitly. Most shows that are licensed by let's say Manga in America only see the light of day years later (close to half a decade) in the UK and are often brought to the market by ADC or MVM. The Anime industry in the UK is tiny, beyond tiny in fact. And as stated at the very least it would promote the 'licencers' to synch with the US market. bringing us accelerated R2 DVD's within a decent time frame.

LonelyMachines

2007-01-13, 15:05

Anime DVDs haven't been dub only for millennia.
It seems odd that they'd release the dubbed DVD's without the original Japanse tracks/subtitles. If that's the case, I'll stick with the downloads, provided they're not DRM'ed to death.

piccahoe

2007-01-14, 00:38

bayoab

2007-01-14, 01:48

its really sad when a US comapny license an anime that has started. I think it really hurts the fans that were watching it because now they have to wait a few years to wait till the company catches up and release the episode that they were watching. :( its really annoying when an american company does this. Its like "we will let you watch 12 episode of blah anime but, after that you have to wait a few months/years and pay alot to watch the rest"." :mad: why can't they just wait until the anime is over in japan? I'm pretty sure that some with pay for it when it comes out. ::frustrated:
Sigh, this again.

It does not take years, usually 1 year at most.
They don't let you, fansubs are illegal
They don't randomly choose a time to announce it that is to spite the fans.
IF they waited for every anime to end, you would never see things like One Piece, Case Closed, Naruto, Bleach, etc in the states

Why must it always be the same arguments from the leechers.

DrewGSR

2007-01-14, 02:43

their is no need to fear or to get your panties all bunched up. give it time, give it time is all i have to say, as most and alot of groups, licensed doesn't' really anything to many groups. I mean look at all the other "licensed" animes out their. Either a new group will appear or current groups will go underground.

Lambda

2007-01-14, 06:55

Well, so long as they're not stupid enough to think having downloadable, probably crippled, subbed versions means they can leave a Japanese track/subtitles off the DVD, then at least it does seem to be properly licensed, as wasn't obvious at the start.

its really sad when a US comapny license an anime that has started. I think it really hurts the fans that were watching it because now they have to wait a few years to wait till the company catches up and release the episode that they were watching. :( its really annoying when an american company does this. Its like "we will let you watch 12 episode of blah anime but, after that you have to wait a few months/years and pay alot to watch the rest"." :mad: why can't they just wait until the anime is over in japan? I'm pretty sure that some with pay for it when it comes out. ::frustrated:

That really doesn't make logical sense. All they've done is arrange to release official versions. Unless I'm missing something, they haven't demanded people stop sharing it and threatened to use their government-granted legal restrictions or anything. They haven't actually done anything to attack AS-visible fansubs, it's all a choice AS and some of the subbers have made. If you want to blame someone for this, I recommend blaming our governments for making such undemocratic, freedom-removing laws as universal copyright in the first place, although you could also blame companies which have tried to enforce copyright on private citizens in the past, in the hope of changing their ways. (Blaming the people who were giving you free stuff would obviously be deeply ungrateful.)

AkatsukisApprentice

2007-01-14, 18:27

I'm from the UK, so while I could download it subbed in dutch/swedish/whatever, I wouldn't be able to understand it and would probably have more luck just watching the RAW -.-.

Not affecting the UK region (afaik)- so you can download the English subs - but the seeder/subber (if from the US) can get in trouble. We're quite fortunate that there are not many platforms where the show can be broadcasted in the UK (cartoon network/jetix etc) so we are less likely to be affected - [but we are affected for things like Naruto - where it is broadcasted and licensed in our region].

Mystery Person X

2007-01-14, 18:35

I think if you actually do the research you'll find that most licenses cover North America and Canada explicitly. Most shows that are licensed by let's say Manga in America only see the light of day years later (close to half a decade) in the UK and are often brought to the market by ADC or MVM. The Anime industry in the UK is tiny, beyond tiny in fact. And as stated at the very least it would promote the 'licencers' to synch with the US market. bringing us accelerated R2 DVD's within a decent time frame.

...What!?

Are you living in 5 years ago or something? Because in the current UK anime market, most of the more popular anime series get released within a year of the US releases. Series coming out in the UK at the moment or very soon include (but are not by any means limited to):
Samurai 7, Naruto, My-HiME, Gilgamesh, Area 88, Fantastic Children, Fullmetal Alchemist, Gundam SEED Destiny, Negima, Noein, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien

In Naruto's case, the UK releases are within weeks of the US ones. Also, even more Ghibli movies are available here than in the US.

Not to mention, your earlier comment about us "not even being able to play region 1 DVDs" is total crap. It's actually quite difficult not to get a region free DVD player now, or one that can be easily hacked by entering a code on your remote. And in any case, importing R1 DVDs is normally cheaper than buying UK releases, removing any desperate need for everything to come out in the UK. (Though there are more and more exceptions to this lately, which is just another great sign of how much the UK market is improving.)

Electroguy

2007-01-14, 19:44

Sigh, this again.

It does not take years, usually 1 year at most.
They don't let you, fansubs are illegal
They don't randomly choose a time to announce it that is to spite the fans.
IF they waited for every anime to end, you would never see things like One Piece, Case Closed, Naruto, Bleach, etc in the states

Why must it always be the same arguments from the leechers.

It takes longer than you would want to wait...
Yeah but that's not really important...
Your probably right but I wouldn't be surprised if you're wrong.
That would be a good thing. Licensed animes will inevitably be dubbed and edited until they're mere shells of the originals.

I hope that Viz does well with it and perhaps a few years down the line the TV companies buying and re marketing these series will smarten up and appreciate the content for what it is instead of trimming it down so they can show it at 3 in the afternoon.

I won't be wasting any longer than I have to for the next Death Note....

Dagger

2007-01-14, 20:19

It takes longer than you would want to wait...
Yeah but that's not really important...
Your probably right but I wouldn't be surprised if you're wrong.
That would be a good thing. Licensed animes will inevitably be dubbed and edited until they're mere shells of the originals.

I hope that Viz does well with it and perhaps a few years down the line the TV companies buying and re marketing these series will smarten up and appreciate the content for what it is instead of trimming it down so they can show it at 3 in the afternoon.

I won't be wasting any longer than I have to for the next Death Note....
Your comments betray your ignorance. Dozens of new anime DVDs are released in the US every month--and out of them, only 1 or 2 (if any) are ever edited or dub-only. Not only do you greatly overestimate the amount of anime that gets on TV, you overestimate the amount of anime that's on TV & edited. Most Adult Swim stuff is edited little, if at all, and of course the DVD versions are bilingual and ncut. The number of series that are currently being released on DVD in edited form can probably be counted on one hand (and all of them can be traced back to the same few "culprit" companies). Now try contrasting that with (according to Anime on DVD) the 767 total anime DVDs that were released in North America in 2006.

sabret00the

2007-01-14, 20:23

...What!?

Are you living in 5 years ago or something? Because in the current UK anime market, most of the more popular anime series get released within a year of the US releases. Series coming out in the UK at the moment or very soon include (but are not by any means limited to):
Samurai 7, Naruto, My-HiME, Gilgamesh, Area 88, Fantastic Children, Fullmetal Alchemist, Gundam SEED Destiny, Negima, Noein, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien

In Naruto's case, the UK releases are within weeks of the US ones. Also, even more Ghibli movies are available here than in the US.

Not to mention, your earlier comment about us "not even being able to play region 1 DVDs" is total crap. It's actually quite difficult not to get a region free DVD player now, or one that can be easily hacked by entering a code on your remote. And in any case, importing R1 DVDs is normally cheaper than buying UK releases, removing any desperate need for everything to come out in the UK. (Though there are more and more exceptions to this lately, which is just another great sign of how much the UK market is improving.)So a two year wait from Japan then? and then as you said, they manage weeks for the Naruto releases so why not here?

Also not to be funny but most of the list you just realed off is bulllshit (no disrespect, your tastes are your own) but i wouldn't be caught dead buying a Mai-Hime, Gundam, FMA, Kimi Ga, Negima or Samurai 7. The market here is so cliched it's a joke.

Gilgamesh and Gungrave both impressed me, however i'm still waiting on the boxset.

Where is Gankutsuou, Paradise Kiss, Elfen Lied, Loveless, Gantz, Futakoi, Aishiteru Ze Baby, Monster and Full Metal Panic Fumoffu?

Granted we'll probably see Gantz and FMP:F but seriously? the market over here doesn't cater unless it involves copious amounts of death or sex and even then it's not great. we need improvement and as has been the way with so many other things in this world, the black market can be the one to push the change through.

Oh and i can't say i import anime, but if indeed it can work out cheaper to import anime, then surely that shows you just how warped our anime market is and why there's such a drastic need for improvement?

Mystery Person X

2007-01-14, 22:38

So a two year wait from Japan then? and then as you said, they manage weeks for the Naruto releases so why not here?

Give it time. The trend is for releases to be getting closer and closer to the US, with Naruto as a prime example (and others, like Kimi ga Nozomu Eien and My-HiME, only a few months behind). I'm not saying the UK market is perfect, but it's much further along the road than you seem to think. With the volume of series available it can hardly be called "tiny", and two years is a lot better than five, yes? (Especially when that two years is shrinking all the time.)

Also not to be funny but most of the list you just realed off is bulllshit (no disrespect, your tastes are your own) but i wouldn't be caught dead buying a Mai-Hime, Gundam, FMA, Kimi Ga, Negima or Samurai 7. The market here is so cliched it's a joke.

But this applies almost as much to the US market. The US market is bigger and more likely to get more marginal stuff, but the trends of what gets licensed and what doesn't are pretty clearly against things like, say, Futakoi, especially in the past couple of years. It's Gonzo and Sunrise stuff (and anything based on a Shonen Jump manga) that brings in the money.

Where is Gankutsuou, Paradise Kiss, Elfen Lied, Loveless, Gantz, Futakoi, Aishiteru Ze Baby, Monster and Full Metal Panic Fumoffu?

Three of those aren't even licensed in the US. Two of them (Elfen Lied and Fumoffu) are out here already. I've no excuses for the other three, they're all great and deserve UK releases.

Granted we'll probably see Gantz and FMP:F

Especially since they're both out already.

but seriously? the market over here doesn't cater unless it involves copious amounts of death or sex

Some titles I'd call favourites of mine (Crest of the Stars, .hack//SIGN) and others that I'm sure would be if I ever got round to seeing more than a few episodes (Kino's Journey, Planetes) do not fall into this category at all, and yet are available in the UK. I can't deny the trend, but the situation isn't nearly as bleak as you seem to think.

we need improvement and as has been the way with so many other things in this world, the black market can be the one to push the change through.

Um, no. There will only be more anime released in the UK if people buy the titles that are currently being released, particularly the ones less focused on violence and sex. It's the legitimate market that will cause changes in the legitimate market.

Oh and i can't say i import anime

Then it's your own fault if you're left unsatisfied. Importing is trivially easy.

but if indeed it can work out cheaper to import anime, then surely that shows you just how warped our anime market is and why there's such a drastic need for improvement?

Not really. Everything is much more expensive here than in the US. CDs, Hollywood movies, video games... why would anime be an exception?

In any case, like I said, improvement is in progress. Naruto is cheaper than the US release, various box sets are coming out (such as Chobits and GitS:SAC 2nd Gig) that are as cheap as or cheaper than the US releases, and all new FUNimation/Revelation titles have a retail price of £15.99 which makes them cheaper online than the US releases. The market is clearly headed in the direction of lower prices.

PowerBarEX

2007-01-15, 00:23

I wouldn't pay more than say $2-3 the most on a download.

This takes into consideration the fact that
1) It probably won't be anywhere near DVD quality.
2) IMO, the majority of the fansub community consists of poor college students that aren't going to be able to practically shell out $100 just to watch a series. And
3) That we're not stupid enough to realize that legal or not, a simlar service of similar quality was provided to us with probably a greater devotion to the series...for free.

That's not to say I expect it for free, but it would be kind of a slap to our intelligence and the fansubbers intelligence that we'd be paying DVD rates for basically a legalized fansub....without the DVD quality, without the hard copy, without the extras that normally are included on a DVD.

Electroguy

2007-01-15, 10:23

Your comments betray your ignorance. Dozens of new anime DVDs are released in the US every month--and out of them, only 1 or 2 (if any) are ever edited or dub-only.

I wasn't talking about DVD releases, it is fairly obvious that DVDs will offer a language selection.

Not only do you greatly overestimate the amount of anime that gets on TV, you overestimate the amount of anime that's on TV & edited.

1.Where do I speculate upon how much Anime get's aired on TV?

Oh...nowhere?

Guess that means your talking nonsense....? :)

2.The majority of Anime on TV in England is edited to a massive degree. The Cartoon Network stuff is obviously over edited as it targets children but stuff on Sc-Fi is edited as well and that pretty much constitutes the entirety of what Anime is available on Television.

If you live somewhere else that's fantastic for you but that has no bearing on my statements.

guest

2007-01-15, 19:26

I wouldn't pay more than say $2-3 the most on a download.
I agree. $4.99 per ep is too expensive. I expect cheaper price yet lower quality, compared to DVD. I don't mind that at all. I think it is only fair. Like I said, I hope they do this in fansub style. Being afforable is the top priority here. It really is pointless if they are doing this download and sub only version but charge for dvd price and with dvd quality. I could just buy dvd then. Why bother?

Now another question is how fast they are planning on releasing one ep. I am guessing they have a schedule for this. After all, they are not doing this for hobby. :p I hope they can release each ep a few days after it is aired in Japan at most. Is this plausible?

FatPianoBoy

2007-01-15, 21:22

You know, I've been thinking: if this whole "corporate fansubbing" thing really takes off en masse, it could very well spell the end of fansubs.
Imagine companies bidding out series before they air, then subbing them and having them available just days after the initial airing. Likewise, the R1 DVD's are released within a few weeks of the R2's, dubbed as the series airs. This may very well be what's on Viz's agenda for the near future, and this project right here is testing the market for it.
Maybe we should consider future repercussions before deciding where and when to put our money.

guest

2007-01-15, 22:48

You know, I've been thinking: if this whole "corporate fansubbing" thing really takes off en masse, it could very well spell the end of fansubs.
Isn't that a good thing? At least I think so. If that is what is going to happen in the future, we no longer need to watch fansub in fear of being sued and the conflicts of moralities. Fansub is, after all, illegal, you know.

bayoab

2007-01-15, 23:58

Imagine companies bidding out series before they air, This already happens.

Likewise, the R1 DVD's are released within a few weeks of the R2's, dubbed as the series airs.And this is absolutely impossible since there is a 2 week lag time just between pressing the DVDs and sending them to retail.

FatPianoBoy

2007-01-16, 00:03

Isn't that a good thing? At least I think so. If that is what is going to happen in the future, we no longer need to watch fansub in fear of being sued and the conflicts of moralities. Fansub is, after all, illegal, you know.

I've never been in fear of being sued for downloading fansubs (unlicensed ones, anyway).
Slurping your soup in a New Jersey restaurant is also illegal. Besides, if you're here, I assume you download fansubs available here yourself.

Edit: @bayoab: It does happen (GITS: SSS), but it's not common. I'm talking about this happening on a large scale.

I think you misunderstood about the DVD's. If the US companies are compiling the episodes at nearly the same time as the Japanese companies, why can't they release DVD's at the same rate? Though, if they put more episodes to a disc as they're accustomed to doing, it probably would take longer.

bayoab

2007-01-16, 00:30

Edit: @bayoab: It does happen (GITS: SSS), but it's not common. I'm talking about this happening on a large scale.
It is actually very common: Black Lagoon, Shana, Fate/Stay Night, Disgaea, All Gonzo shows in the past 2 years.. etc were ALL prelicensed. (There are more...) And those are just the early announced ones. There are many others that were probably licensed before and not announced till later.

I think you misunderstood about the DVD's. If the US companies are compiling the episodes at nearly the same time as the Japanese companies, why can't they release DVD's at the same rate? Though, if they put more episodes to a disc as they're accustomed to doing, it probably would take longer.
Yes, the episode count is a good point. But they can't do it because firstly, they have to get the materials from Japan. Japan isn't just going to do a "okay, we finished, here you go". Secondly, most retailers won't accept anything less than a 6 week delay between discs. Many japanese DVDs are released at between 4 and 8 weeks. Most are on the two poles (4 and 8). Therefore it is impossible to keep up the pace. (8 week means 4 months between releases if you need 2 R2s per R1 which is unacceptable to retailers. 4 weeks means you are releasing just over every 2 months which the fans whine about.)

FatPianoBoy

2007-01-16, 00:42

It is actually very common: Black Lagoon, Shana, Fate/Stay Night, Disgaea, All Gonzo shows in the past 2 years.. etc were ALL prelicensed. (There are more...) And those are just the early announced ones. There are many others that were probably licensed before and not announced till later.

Those are all just the mainstreamy shows, though. I don't keep tabs on those (though I did watch Shana), so I guess I just didn't hear about it. And those are just from one studio - I'm talking about this becoming the norm for all licensed material.

Yes, the episode count is a good point. But they can't do it because firstly, they have to get the materials from Japan. Japan isn't just going to do a "okay, we finished, here you go". Secondly, most retailers won't accept anything less than a 6 week delay between discs. Many japanese DVDs are released at between 4 and 8 weeks. Most are on the two poles (4 and 8). Therefore it is impossible to keep up the pace. (8 week means 4 months between releases if you need 2 R2s per R1 which is unacceptable to retailers. 4 weeks means you are releasing just over every 2 months which the fans whine about.)

Ah, good point. Though, it seems rediculous that people whine about large gaps in between releases. "I'd rather wait longer first and then not have to wait as long in between!" Weird. I can understand why retailers wouldn't be happy, though.

guest

2007-01-16, 17:27

I've never been in fear of being sued for downloading fansubs (unlicensed ones, anyway).
Slurping your soup in a New Jersey restaurant is also illegal. Besides, if you're here, I assume you download fansubs available here yourself.
I am sorry if I sound patronizing. That was not my intention. I think what I stated above apply to everyone, including myself of course, which is why I think it is a good idea if Viz is doing this to end fansub.

Karnot

2007-01-16, 17:56

Isn't that a good thing? At least I think so. If that is what is going to happen in the future, we no longer need to watch fansub in fear of being sued and the conflicts of moralities.
If it is good for anyone - its only the USians. What about the rest of the world ?

FatPianoBoy

2007-01-17, 00:47

I am sorry if I sound patronizing. That was not my intention. I think what I stated above apply to everyone, including myself of course, which is why I think it is a good idea if Viz is doing this to end fansub.

What I meant was that whether it's technically legal or not is irrelevant, as it's a law that's never (or very, very rarely) truly enforced.
I'm not sure I can agree with the end of fansubs being a good thing. As it is, if I feel one group is doing a subpar job with a series, I simply go get it from another group. If the license holder is doing a subpar job, I'm stuck. Competition is also good quality control. And I think I speak for everyone when I say that I'm not keen on suddenly having to pay for something that I've been getting free for years.

SuperAfroPenguin

2007-01-17, 03:43

My two cents is that I really just don't appreciate licensing in general. The idea of someone taking something produced by someone else and redistributing it, with little change, for a ridiculous markup, doesn't sit right with me. You can justify the costs all you want, be when the entire country of Japan has it available, with hundreds of other shows, under the cost of basic cable, I can't help but feel a bit screwed over paying so much for the added inconvenience. If shows readily available to you now, say Gray's Anatomy (to the U.S., anyhow), were bought up by some company and then said company charged app. 4$ an episode, would you think it great news? In reality, ABC not only airs said show under regular television, it also streams the entire season from it's website, at no cost, simply for your convenience! Comparing the DVD release of a movie to the DVD release of an anime still doesn't cut it, because I can guarantee no anime is working under a multi-million dollar budget. I think rather than the Japanese market selling out to American butcher factories, it should harness this little tool called "the internet" and offer the rest of the world what it offers it's own country; that is, decent quality anime under the much more mild inconvenience of paid advertising.

DjTrizz

2007-01-17, 07:46

dammit Viz Media, why has thou forsaken meh!?!?!?!

Kasiro

2007-01-17, 11:25

What I meant was that whether it's technically legal or not is irrelevant, as it's a law that's never (or very, very rarely) truly enforced.
I'm not sure I can agree with the end of fansubs being a good thing. As it is, if I feel one group is doing a subpar job with a series, I simply go get it from another group. If the license holder is doing a subpar job, I'm stuck. Competition is also good quality control. And I think I speak for everyone when I say that I'm not keen on suddenly having to pay for something that I've been getting free for years.

I can't and probably won't be able to say that better. Wholeheartedly Aggree :P

bayoab

2007-01-17, 11:34

Sigh...

My two cents is that I really just don't appreciate licensing in general. The idea of someone taking something produced by someone else and redistributing it, with little change, for a ridiculous markup, doesn't sit right with me.
You complain about just a little change (Adding subtitles), and yet if they changed it more you would be complaining that it was edited. Also, producing a new audio track is definitely not a little change.
Regarding "markup", most of the "markup" is because 1) it passes through 3 hands before it gets to you (the true markup here) and 2) because people don't buy it. Firstly, the price doubles for every set of hands it passes through that isn't your own. If you haven't noticed, most direct from the company releases are under 1/4 of the price. Secondly, people don't buy it. Companies have to make back the money they spent on the license and more so they can buy new, bigger series. They HAVE to charge that much to make up the license because its a niche series and only a few thousand people are going to be buying the discs. The Japanese companies are charging anywhere between 30k and 5 million for the license to a series. (Most cost over 100k).

You can justify the costs all you want, be when the entire country of Japan has it available, with hundreds of other shows, under the cost of basic cable, I can't help but feel a bit screwed over paying so much for the added inconvenience. Except, you don't live in Japan. You do not buy the goods that are advertised to help subsidize the cost of TV shows in Japan. Whatever country you live in, you are buying goods that help subsidize advertising on TV.

If shows readily available to you now, say Gray's Anatomy (to the U.S., anyhow), were bought up by some company and then said company charged app. 4$ an episode, would you think it great news? In reality, ABC not only airs said show under regular television, it also streams the entire season from it's website, at no cost, simply for your convenience!ABC is not basic cable. ABC is a free station that you can get with a set of rabbit ears and a TV in most locations. ABC is available to almost every person in the US. Cartoon network on the other hand is a basic cable channel and would be a better example and they only have the latest episodes available. Most other stations (TNT, USA, Com, FX, etc) do not even make anything more than clips avaliable.

Comparing the DVD release of a movie to the DVD release of an anime still doesn't cut it, because I can guarantee no anime is working under a multi-million dollar budget. And you would be completely incorrect. One of the few sourced examples: "The film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Shell:_S.A.C._Solid_State_Society) has a production budget of 360 million yen (equivalent to US$3.2 million)." Many TV shows have over 1 million dollar USD creation budgets but finding sources for this is going to be a pain.

I think rather than the Japanese market selling out to American butcher factories, it should harness this little tool called "the internet" and offer the rest of the world what it offers it's own country; that is, decent quality anime under the much more mild inconvenience of paid advertising.Firstly, I'd like to welcome to 2006/2007 where almost nothing is butchered. Secondly, Japan does offer anime and a few other things over the internet for free/small fee(Bandai Channel). But guess what? Like Cartoon Network shows, its restricted by ip detection to people in their own country. Afterall, you aren't paying for it and nobody is going to buy ad space for people who can't buy anything.

It sucks when you realize that what you imagine is reality isn't doesn't it.

Now...

If the license holder is doing a subpar job, I'm stuck. Competition is also good quality control. .While I agree on your "subpar company" release point, you can just not buy it and convince others to do the same. This is more like a movie than anything. You speak with which tickets you buy and movies you go to see, not by getting the cam that some 15 yr old warez kiddie brought in.

SuperAfroPenguin

2007-01-17, 16:13

Sigh...
You complain about just a little change (Adding subtitles), and yet if they changed it more you would be complaining that it was edited. Also, producing a new audio track is definitely not a little change.
Regarding "markup", most of the "markup" is because 1) it passes through 3 hands before it gets to you (the true markup here) and 2) because people don't buy it. Firstly, the price doubles for every set of hands it passes through that isn't your own. If you haven't noticed, most direct from the company releases are under 1/4 of the price. Secondly, people don't buy it. Companies have to make back the money they spent on the license and more so they can buy new, bigger series. They HAVE to charge that much to make up the license because its a niche series and only a few thousand people are going to be buying the discs. The Japanese companies are charging anywhere between 30k and 5 million for the license to a series. (Most cost over 100k).

Except, you don't live in Japan. You do not buy the goods that are advertised to help subsidize the cost of TV shows in Japan. Whatever country you live in, you are buying goods that help subsidize advertising on TV.

ABC is not basic cable. ABC is a free station that you can get with a set of rabbit ears and a TV in most locations. ABC is available to almost every person in the US. Cartoon network on the other hand is a basic cable channel and would be a better example and they only have the latest episodes available. Most other stations (TNT, USA, Com, FX, etc) do not even make anything more than clips avaliable.

And you would be completely incorrect. One of the few sourced examples: "The film (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Shell:_S.A.C._Solid_State_Society) has a production budget of 360 million yen (equivalent to US$3.2 million)." Many TV shows have over 1 million dollar USD creation budgets but finding sources for this is going to be a pain.

Firstly, I'd like to welcome to 2006/2007 where almost nothing is butchered. Secondly, Japan does offer anime and a few other things over the internet for free/small fee(Bandai Channel). But guess what? Like Cartoon Network shows, its restricted by ip detection to people in their own country. Afterall, you aren't paying for it and nobody is going to buy ad space for people who can't buy anything.

It sucks when you realize that what you imagine is reality isn't doesn't it.

Okay, I know I missed out on some details, but I feel like you missed the bigger picture...

First, the point I was making about the changes was that they, indeed small (as they should be), don't justify such a huge markup. The problem isn't with the changes, but rather the service charge for these changes. Whether actual costs are high is moot; I'm not spending 4 times as much as a product's worth because the company can't acquire said product in a more efficient fashion. How is it that these consequences fall on the customer? Moreover, if the problem is that people aren't buying this product, then WTH is any company doing trying to sell it??? If it was so costly, you'd imagine that companies would just leave it alone. And yet, there are more than several U.S. licensing companies in business.

Second, even if the production costs of an anime SERIES, as is context, reached that of a movie, it wouldn't be to the ratio of 4 episodes to 1 full length movie. However, this is the ratio of product cost.

Third, the suggestion I gave was a mere suggestion made on a whim at 3:30 in the morning. Forgive me for the holes, but I still feel like it would be much more cost efficient to the company and to the viewers to go the online streaming root...Especially now seeing as 1) they already have it online and 2) "people don't buy it." There are more than enough companies that advertise to the non-Japanese anime fanbase, and considering how small you consider this fanbase to be, advertising would be relatively cheap. Sounds like a win/win/win to me. That could even, with high probability, take over the role from fansubbers, allowing Japanese production companies to retain their rights at home, over seas, and on the net.

So, for the record, it doesn't suck when what I imagine is reality, because it makes it that much closer to becoming what I want. I fail to see the suckiness at all, in fact.

At any rate, whether I'm right or wrong, please step down from that high horse you're riding as Anime God and lose the smug attitude. Picking apart a comment made as a side note in the bitterness of one's enjoyment being stripped out from under them doesn't exactly make you divine.

bayoab

2007-01-17, 18:34

Whether actual costs are high is moot; I'm not spending 4 times as much as a product's worth because the company can't acquire said product in a more efficient fashion. How is it that these consequences fall on the customer? I don't know why the price doubles everytime it goes through a distribution channel, but this is why places like DDD are so cheap. Instead of charging the doubled price, they only add a couple bucks and make up the difference in the volume they sell. (If you sell everything $5 cheaper than your competitors, people will buy more and thus you reap the same profit and move more inventory.)

Moreover, if the problem is that people aren't buying this product, then WTH is any company doing trying to sell it??? If it was so costly, you'd imagine that companies would just leave it alone. And yet, there are more than several U.S. licensing companies in business.
Because, at the price they sell it at, enough people buy it so that they can usually breakeven-ish. The problem is not enough people buy it to justify lowering the price any further than they already have. (There was a price reduction about 3 years ago.) The obvious catch is that you can't survive by breaking even on every series. Also, some of these companies (named Bandai, Viz and Geneon) are owned by Japanese parent companies so that the overhead is lower on some series.

Note: I come down the way I did on the previous post on everyone whose posts make it seem they believe that copyrights are a joke and/or that licensing companies are "evil"/"price gouging"/"out to destroy fansubs"/etc. Most of these people are stuck in a fantasy world of their own ignorance and are clueless about the industry. I apologize for labeling you as one of them.

Sorrow-K

2007-01-28, 20:23

Oh God. I leave this thread for a couple of weeks and when I come back, I find it degenerating into a generic anti-licensing thread. -_-

When did people forget that the whole point of fansubbing was to expand the visibility of titles and the growth of the industry outside Japan so that companies would license titles (like Death Note) and we could eventually buy them. The medium can't grow unless we have the oppurtunity to buy the titles we like and if leechers begin to dominate the market, it'll stagnate.

We get it. You're cheap. And selfish. We hear it loud and clear. You don't have to be so vocal about, though. Have some shame. Some of us here actually love anime, and are willing to throw some money at it to see the industry continually grow, both inside and outside Japan. I want titles like Death Note and Mushishi to be licensed and get the recognition and exposure they deserve outside Japan. But people need to recognize that the art is driven by economy, just like anything else. If people aren't willing to throw cash at the titles that actually deserve it, producers will become less and less inclined to take that financial risk and create titles like that in the first place. And that's something that I certainly won't stand for.

Anyway, with that unpleasantness out of the way, Ask John wrote an interesting article on the issue that touches on some of the issues that we missed in this thread:

http://animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=1481

Thoughts?

Edit: And, protip: actually have a look at some anime DVD prices. Anime DVDs are still ridiculously cheaper outside Japan than they are in Japan. So don't argue that US anime distributors are charging abhorrently high prices for DVDs when they're still beating the pants off their Eastern counterparts.

kriez

2007-01-29, 02:37

well, even though it's licensed only in region 1 and probably 2, we in region 3 are affected too! as animesuki adhered to region strictly in terms of licenses, they remove all dl links. even when i find the dl links elsewhere, there's always a sense of guilt that follows and fear of my house being raided..~:upset: luckily the anime over here are abit slow and sad case is, it caters to the dramas as well~:(

Ardea

2007-01-30, 13:56

Licensing is fine by me if merchandise and bilingual DVDs come out, because I can guarantee that I will buy Death Note merchandise even if I don't buy the DVDs or the downloads. Though, I will buy the DVDs if they come with both sub and dub. I can't imagine why they wouldn't have both :heh:

I've never used any kind of pay-to-download service, and don't plan to. Ever. I would prefer buying something tangible, and in this case the DVDs. If it's some kind of ploy to make me buy the DVDs instead of their downloads, they got me then... because I wouldn't buy downloads even if it was cheaper xP. I was a bit unhappy because it was Viz that got Death Note, and not another company that I would've preferred. Though... does that mean Death Note has a chance on being on Adult Swim? I think that'd be awesome... but heh, off topic ;P

I'm sure people are more inclined to speculate negatively because they don't know what to expect since there's very little information otherwise. Who would want to fully embrace something they know that little about? I still think it's a very good and smart move by Viz to start distributing digitally, with current trends as they are for entertainment and multimedia. If people can watch episodes and movies on their iPods or whatever digital devices there are, I'm sure that anime wouldn't be any different. As long as Viz doesn't limit the availability to their customers in some way and plans it out right, I think they'll be successful.

bayoab

2007-02-03, 12:00

2-1-07 (4:08AM EST)---- Worldwide Death Note Anime Licensing Spread
Nippon Television Network Corporation announced on Wednseday that they have wrapped agreements with several international licensees regarding Death Note TV. Plans are to have their Death Note anime TV series release on a worldwide scale, centering on American, Asian and European territories. The live action film has already seen release in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and South Korea. Broadcast, DVD, distribution and merchandising rights have been awarded to VIZ Media in the American and European regions. Television broadcast of the series will come first followed by a DVD release campaign and character merchandising to commence from this spring. A similar market schedule is expected for Europe.
Hmm, strange, what happened to the downloadable copies? But the DVD is coming worldwide.

Ardea

2007-02-03, 16:16

Television broadcast of the series will come first followed by a DVD release campaign and character merchandising to commence from this spring. A similar market schedule is expected for Europe.

Ooooh, this sounds awesome. I was just talking to my friend about Death Note being shown on TV here. :D

If that's the case, perhaps the downloads will be part of the television broadcasting, or the "DVD release campaign." Maybe you can watch the episodes online after they air for a small fee, or something like that. Who knows? :confused:

bayoab

2007-02-16, 02:33

A new press release (http://animeondvd.com/news/pr.php?pr_view=953) has come out which mentions more information on the release. Still no information on what method of downloading or pricing.

NoSanninWa

2007-02-16, 03:45

Sadly they still aren't releasing any information that we actually want to know.

There's a line in that synopsis of Death Note that really amused me. "it depicts the adventures of Light Yagami" Whoa! I didn't know that he had adventures! I thought that he had plots. Adventures makes it sound like he's seeking conflict and fighting monsters or at least engaging in some sort of physical activity.

Zu Ra

2007-02-16, 10:50

"it depicts the adventures of Light Yagami" Whoa! I didn't know that he had adventures! I thought that he had plots. Adventures makes it sound like he's seeking conflict and fighting monsters or at least engaging in some sort of physical activity.

That just goes to show they suck at anything they try even synopsis . Adventures of Light sounds more like LOR or Dungeons n Dragons . They were better off with Chronciles of Lightu kun

bayoab

2007-05-03, 15:54

And it is finally announced.

Viz to Offer Death Note Downloads via Direct2Drive
Viz Media has announced (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/press-release/2007-05-03/viz-media-teams-with-ign-entertainment's-direct2drive-to-make-death-notetm-anime-series-available-for-digital-download) it will provide digital downloads of the Death Note paranormal suspense anime series via IGN Entertainment's Direct2Drive online store. The first subtitled episode will debut on May 10, just half a year after its Japanese premiere. Viz describes it as "the first time a well known anime property will be made legally available to U.S. audiences for download while the title still airs on Japanese television." There is no word yet on compatibility on different platforms and devices, or digital rights management issues. Update: Current Direct2Drive videos only support Windows computers with no support for iPods or video DVD burning. Thanks, roxfan.

Lambda

2007-05-03, 20:02

So it can't be (legally) downloaded and watched on (real, general-purpose) computers, there's just a way of getting it to show on Microsoft appliances. As I suspected.

Scep

2007-05-04, 10:31

Great marketing. To be honest, if a person really wanted to be legal, would he really want to pay to download a file that cant be played on dvd players and cant be put on ipods? Hell, id buy a dvd anytime over that.

Jaden

2007-05-04, 12:59

yes indeed...there's plenty dvd's i'd like to buy, so why waste money on a product that's worse than the pirates and has to be downloaded and will only exist on your hard drive...?

bayoab

2007-05-04, 14:58

So it can't be (legally) downloaded and watched on (real, general-purpose) computers, there's just a way of getting it to show on Microsoft appliances. As I suspected. It can be legally downloaded from whatever computer you own. It just can't be played except on machines running windows which, despite what you falsely believe, is the strong majority of the market. Viz's position seems to be clear. You are downloading it like a fansub to watch on your computer. And if you don't run windows/windows virtual enviroment, tough luck for you. That's the price of running your os. By now, everyone is aware of the spread of WMP DRM. If you expected them to choose an option that supported linux, then you seriously need to look at the actual state of the computer world. If you expected OSX support, I'd suspect there are some price and exclusivity issues going around in the background with itunes.

wingdarkness

2007-05-06, 19:18

Viz is an interesting choice considering this isn't an action-shonen type...I would have thought Pioneer//Geneon could've fit better for the serious tone of the show...Lots of Naruto and Bleach voices doesn't exactly make me wanna cheer for this genre, but Viz is far from sucking,..just hope they get great voices for L, Light and Ryruk...They have to get a good voice for L though to capture his eccentric nature...

Royal_Devil

2007-05-07, 14:41

I remember reading somewhere they were considering using Ocean Group or some other Canadin studio for the dub.

wingdarkness

2007-05-07, 16:23

Ocean Group? Well I hope they don't just use those generic Inuyasha voices--Decent for Inuyasha but quite dissapointing if it's for DeathNote...

Royal_Devil

2007-05-07, 22:33

Ocean Group? Well I hope they don't just use those generic Inuyasha voices--Decent for Inuyasha but quite dissapointing if it's for DeathNote...

What do you mean by generic and which characters? Cause generic most definately does not fit Miroku's and Kouga's VAs, especially Kouga's. Maybe their performance in Inuyasha but most definately not in other performances.

wingdarkness

2007-05-07, 22:51

^Are you kidding me? The main male cast may have "unique" VA's but secondary characters are pretty darn generic (basically all the female voices are)..Again something gravely like Kouga's voice or creepy like Naraku works for fantasy shonen fighter, but for DeathNote if L was Miroku's voice I'd go insane (Hearing Rey from Gundam Seed Destiny being voiced by miroku is also insane)...Now i like Miroku's voice as Miroku, but I think Ocean group's track record is more of decency, not greatness...Now most Pioneer/Geneon shows I watch like Ghost in the Shell SAC, Samurai Champloo, Paranoia Agent just to name a few have much better realistic and well-trained VA's...Naraku and Sesshomaru are good though and would fit some Shinigamis perhaps...

I'm a fan of Inuyasha believe it or not (and am a big supporter of dubs), but I put DeathNote on a higher pedestal which is why I would perfer non Ocean Group Va's if possible...

Draender

2007-05-12, 04:32

I purchased and downloaded Death Note episodes 1 and 2 that Viz has made available on direct2drive. I've used direct2drive before to buy Temple of Elemental Evil, Sword of the Stars and some other games without problems. I never bought videos from them until yesterday. As with games, after you buy a video episode, it will be in your account history along with the license key for it.

I had a problem with the DRM not working initially; there's some problem with Windows XP Media Center and Windows Media Player 11 corrupting DRM cache files. The solution was in their FAQ... it involved finding the DRM folder and renaming it to DRMbak so a new DRM folder is generated.

Once that was resolved, when you first play each episode Windows Media Player will connect to direct2drive and it will ask you to enter your license key. Highlight the key in your web browser and copy it with Control+C then paste it into Windows Media Player with Control+V. Once the license key was verified I was able to watch these episodes freely. So, downloading and activating a video is identical to downloading and activating a game.

The quality of these episodes is excellent. I feel that the first episodes going up to about episode 17/18 are the best in the series. I bought some of the Region 2 DVDs in order to get the figures that come with the first editions and the video quality is equal to them. The image is very clear and in widescreen in what I believe is a fullscreen frame; this creates an empty space along the bottom for the subtitles.

I hope they release the rest of the series quickly.

Quarkboy

2007-05-13, 20:47

The quality of these episodes is excellent. I feel that the first episodes going up to about episode 17/18 are the best in the series. I bought some of the Region 2 DVDs in order to get the figures that come with the first editions and the video quality is equal to them. The image is very clear and in widescreen in what I believe is a fullscreen frame; this creates an empty space along the bottom for the subtitles.

I hope they release the rest of the series quickly.

Sorry, but I beg to differ. The videos are 640x480, with the lower 120 lines blacked out for the subtitles. So the actual video itself is only 640x360.

The R2 dvds are in all likelihood 720x480 enhanced for anamorphic playback, which means the downloaded version is 68% of the pixels of the R2 DVD. It's not even close to DVD quality. Furthermore, they are played at 29.97 fps, but progressive, not interlaced, which means that (since most of the show is originally animated at 23.976 fps) pans and other smooth animation motion is jerky, as 1 out of 5 frames is duplicated. Most fansubber groups deal with this properly, but it seems Viz (or Direct2Drive) doesn't know how to properly encode hybrid video content for computer playback.

Also, the "karaoke" of the opening song is quite amusing, considering that they "karaoke" the ENGLISH TRANSLATION.

Kai1

2007-05-15, 10:05

So how good is the picture quality of it? Is it close to dvd quality?
And what about the subs? Any comments on them?

Basically, is it the same version that is coming out on DVDs just without the dubs? Is it worth buying? They seem to have a bundle of first 2 episodes but the price is the same as buying them separately. -.-

psycho bolt

2007-05-15, 13:21

Man i just previewed (http://deathnote.viz.com/trailer_popup.php?t=3)Light's dub voice and........:uhoh:. The trailer was alrite.

OMG_Zerg_Rush

2007-05-16, 03:27

L's voice seemed a bit to deep in my opinion

NoSanninWa

2007-05-16, 05:42

Sorry, but I beg to differ. The videos are 640x480, with the lower 120 lines blacked out for the subtitles. So the actual video itself is only 640x360.

The R2 dvds are in all likelihood 720x480 enhanced for anamorphic playback, which means the downloaded version is 68% of the pixels of the R2 DVD. It's not even close to DVD quality. Furthermore, they are played at 29.97 fps, but progressive, not interlaced, which means that (since most of the show is originally animated at 23.976 fps) pans and other smooth animation motion is jerky, as 1 out of 5 frames is duplicated. Most fansubber groups deal with this properly, but it seems Viz (or Direct2Drive) doesn't know how to properly encode hybrid video content for computer playback.

Also, the "karaoke" of the opening song is quite amusing, considering that they "karaoke" the ENGLISH TRANSLATION.
That's very disappointing. Considering that this invites direct comparison to fansubs I would have thought they'd at least put a little bit of work into making their project not seem like amateurville by comparison. Shouldn't they prove a professional product would equal, if not exceed, the work of amateurs? Didn't they at least watch a fansub so that they would know what they had to measure up to?

wingdarkness

2007-05-21, 18:12

Man i just previewed (http://deathnote.viz.com/trailer_popup.php?t=3)Light's dub voice and........:uhoh:. The trailer was alrite.

You see this is what I thought would happen because it's Viz, Light's dub voice seems too shoneny to me...The suave arrogance, the maniacal cleverness is gonna be hard to achieve with this current VA...I'm a dub-supporter and wasn't blown away by Light's voice...Would have perfered a more authentic, serious voice...

Different version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOpVX_7I334)

Caligula

2007-05-29, 18:37

wingdarkness

2007-05-29, 19:26

Kudos, wingdarkness.
It often seems like English dubs lack soul when it comes to comparison with the original character. In Light's case, he just doesn't sound like a super-genius to me.

I was also disappointed with the movie(s). Even though I saw it in Japanese, the I still thought the characters just didn't seem to fit. L was the closest, Misa was the farthest.
But that's just my opinion, and I'm picky.

Listen Viz is good (Although Kakashi and Orochimaru VA's suck)...I'm no dub-nazi...I love many dubs and will be found defending them most of the time from dub haters..I'm just saying you don't get a second chance at a first impression and from what I've read at many forums and blogs are mostly opinions that match my own, which is Light's dub voice in the trailer (Which is all we have to examine) doesn't seem to fit the tone of the show (and Viz isn't stupid they know the big fanbase of this show is gonna judge everything Viz gives them)...I mean I'm being pretty lax compared to most the comments I've been reading...Hell on You-tube the comments were like 90 outta a 100 saying they hated it! I didn't hate it it just doesn't match Light's persona based on the trailer (which is all I've said)...

All the Viz shows I've seen have been shonen-fighter or mecha...They do a decent job at that, so personally I would have perferred Pioneer//Genoen whose voice talent from studious like Animaze and Bang-Zoom! are more realistic and authentic to most characters IMO...They do many shows with more serious tones and have probably the most respected dubs overall (Cowboy Bebop, Paranoia Agent, Samurai Champloo just to name a few)...

I'm not really that picky about dubs in general, but for Deathnote I am because I want it to be a hit in America if that's possible...And I never envisioned Light's voice to sound more like an angsty snobbish punk than a maniacal yet rightous, bored genius...

Onniguru

2007-06-14, 00:37

This is probably old news by now, but VIZ Media has sent Cease and Desist letter to distributors/fansubbers of the series DEATH NOTE.

The Letter (http://www.techtorrent.net/quickie.aspx)

The letter states they must end distribution by June 22nd.

At least one fansubber has stated they will finish as much as they can by that date, and then reform at a new location under a new name...and finish the series anyway :eyespin:

Add your thoughts.

FatPianoBoy

2007-06-14, 00:56

Has Viz actually done anything with the license yet? I've not heard much since they acquired "digital distribution" rights to it.

If Viz is sitting is being stingy and sitting on it, more power to the fansubbers. If not, well... I suggest they bug out while they can.

Also, why'd they wait so long? This was licensed almost a year ago...

Onniguru

2007-06-14, 01:00

Well, you know how slow attorneys are :D

PS: I, um, meant to photshop out the fan-subber's name from the letter. I forgot :uhoh:
Its midnight so I will fix this tomarrow

Risaa

2007-06-14, 01:19

It's unfortunate to receive a C&D letter from a company that seems to be taking their time, but it's never worth it to keep distributing subs past the date in the C&D letter, IMO... You really could get into a whole heap of trouble. But as for wanting to churn out as many episodes as possible before the date, ganbatte! Massugu go go!

wingdarkness

2007-06-14, 01:38

With just 3 episodes left, Viz can kiss my a$$...Let's call it even for casting a punkish snob as Lights VA...The fansubbers will do the right thing, which means they're names won't go in my DN^^...

bayoab

2007-06-14, 01:56

Has Viz actually done anything with the license yet? I've not heard much since they acquired "digital distribution" rights to it.
They have announced a DVD release date in 4th Q 2007. They have the series up subtitled slowly on IGN's digital distribution service.

Also, why'd they wait so long? This was licensed almost a year ago...
A year? It was 6 months ago.

Once you buy the license, you have the right to do whatever you want. Sitting on it is a legitimate option too.

And I see this thread is already going in ths usual direction.... that didn't take long at all..

Onniguru

2007-06-14, 01:56

With just 3 episodes left...

35 is already out, subbed, and someone can definately get 36 finished before the deadline of the 22nd, which really means just episode 37 will be left hanging.

I'm pretty sure 37 will show up somewhere on IRC after that, though :p

microlith

2007-06-14, 02:11

At least one fansubber of the fansubbers listed above (I wont say which), has stated they will finish as much as they can by that date, and then reform at a new location under a new name...and finish the series anyway :eyespin:

Add your thoughts.

Fans and fansubbers are ungrateful and disrespectful?

Who knew!

If you like Death Note, I suggest rolling with it and buying the DVDs when they come out. That speaks a lot more (to the studios in both Japan and the US) about you as fans than bitching about the fact that it was licensed.

At least they send out C&Ds. They could be like the RIAA, firing off lawsuits with no warning.

Fruitfly

2007-06-14, 02:13

They have announced a DVD release date in 4th Q 2007.
You can buy the 1st episode online but the first dvd is suppose to be in November.
http://www.animeondvd.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/20894/

Personally, I haven't like any of Viz's releases. They should just release manga. :rolleyes:

wingdarkness

2007-06-14, 02:17

35 is already out, subbed, and they can definately get 36 finished before the deadline of the 22nd, which really means just episode 37 will be left hanging.

I'm pretty sure 37 will show up somewhere on IRC after that, though :p

Oooh, so they are tempting the subbers with that last episode as bait...Sounds like a plan "L" would suggest :p..

Oh and to calm microlith's considerable nerves, I WILL be purchasing Death Note...Proving that series worth buying are worth buying regardless of the availability...

FatPianoBoy

2007-06-14, 02:17

They have announced a DVD release date in 4th Q 2007. They have the series up subtitled slowly on IGN's digital distribution service.

A year? It was 6 months ago.

Once you buy the license, you have the right to do whatever you want. Sitting on it is a legitimate option too.

And I see this thread is already going in ths usual direction.... that didn't take long at all..

Ah, I see - so it isn't being sat on, then. I was just bit worried since I hadn't heard anything.

Hmm... seemed like longer, I guess. I think it was announced around the time episode 13 or so aired.

Indeed you do, but if no one is going to sell it to me, I'm going to get it for free.

The usual direction? I freely admitted that I wasn't sure about what the status of the release was...

bayoab

2007-06-14, 02:19

You can buy the 1st episode online but the first dvd is suppose to be in November.
http://www.animeondvd.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/20894/

Personally, I haven't like any of Viz's releases. They should just release manga. :rolleyes:
Yes, that would be the 4th Q of 2007. I don't trust RACS with dates when nobody else has them. And up to episode 10 is available subbed for purchase (at $2 an episode.) They are putting up 2 episodes per week.

Potatochobit

2007-06-14, 02:23

whats the link where u can buy these episodes subbed?

Onniguru

2007-06-14, 10:29

whats the link where u can buy these episodes subbed?

VIZ has kinda buried it kinda deep on their site, but if you do a search it can be found. However, given how they hide the link, the slowness of availability of the subs becoming available, and the general poor quality of releases, it appears the whole offering was mostly a scheme to stall as many fans as possible from getting fansubs until the DVDs come out.

Mostly, but not entirely.

Personally, I think they would have been better served by having made quality releases, but, frankly, I think some of the poor quality was not due to lack of caring, but sheer lack of ability...the good fansubbers have years of experience translating, timing, encoding, etc. in this fashion. Even the new fansubs groups are usually comprised of fans who have lurked fansubs for years, and have "learned from those that went before them".

In all probability, the VIZ staff that created their own "fansubs" did not watch a single fansub from any group. Most have probably never seen a real fansub. Ever. They have never watched a fansub because "they are not into that sort of thing". Digital fansubs probably did not exist when they were in school, so they never heard about them until they already had jobs in the industry. They are learning how to do this completely on their own.

bayoab

2007-06-14, 14:42

whats the link where u can buy these episodes subbed?

http://www.direct2drive.com/

Onniguru

2007-06-14, 17:14

It looks like you get 12 episodes for $21.99...thats not bad at all :), considering most official (not bootleg) DVDs would give 4, maybe 5 episodes at most.

Too bad about the quality, though. If the quality was better, I would go and buy it right now, to give VIZ their due. As it currently stands, I'll probably be waiting a year for a "boxed DVD set" to come out before I fork over the cash.

Maes Hughes

2007-06-14, 20:24

Only stupid people or those with more money than sense would give money for low quality subs on the internet, no matter if the subs are "official". There's a fine line between loyalty and stupidity.

Money for DVDs = Win
Money for offisubs = Fail

Maybe the UK will see a Death Note box set by 2010?

Auro

2007-06-14, 21:41

I'm gonna buy it when the dvd's start getting released but knowing our luck down here that wont be for what 3 years too. I dont wanna wait 3 years to find out what happens in episode 37 ... that's insane. :frustrated:

Basically Viz said to stop on the 22nd meaning 36 could be subbed, but 37 not.
I was waiting for them to make a move, they're a business so I guess its fair enough. But its just silly to do it so late - specially since apparently this isn't the first time that's happened. Its like they wait for the last episode or something O___o

Oooh, so they are tempting the subbers with that last episode as bait...
Exactly!
Sounds like a plan "L" would suggest :p..
That made me laugh, nice one! :D

Auro

2007-06-14, 21:44

Sorry, my computer went silly and slow and somehow double posted.
Well since I'm editing this post - don't get me wrong I watch Viz stuff, they supply things that I can't get a hold of ... and half the time I like dub better than the original and vice versa. I'm really looking forward to getting the dvds here.
But still, this is C&D thing is annoying nontheless :P

Mr JeburtO

2007-06-15, 10:49

well most major fansub groups have removed the torrents from the sites :( guess i'll have to wait a good four, five years till the dvds appear in the UK to find out how it finishes.

i'm not saying i prefer fansubs over dvds, its just that ive watched the series from the beginning and now its going to be a while till i can see how it ends in english

Wosho128

2007-06-15, 12:34

Well, that kind of sucks. I stopped watching "Death Note" on episode 11 as I was going to wait for a batch torrent to be made to watch more. I have no problem with buying the DVDs but I would like to finish up the series still.

Ah well, there still will be fansub groups who are willing to take risks in order to finish the series so I'm not complaining.

I'll support Viz by buying their releases; they better be good though.

bayoab

2007-06-15, 17:04

If you want to see how it ends, you can always go to the library or your local book store and pick up the manga.

Maes Hughes

2007-06-15, 17:50

England would be a wonderful place if you could walk into your local library and pick up Death Note.

It's too troublesome to import manga chapters when you can download them in a matter of seconds. The internet is both a blessing and a curse; it can raise the of manga/anime series and lower sales in equal measure.

Deathkillz

2007-06-15, 17:55

Maybe the UK will see a Death Note box set by 2010?
ha! you are putting too much hope there :p i personally would add "never" to the end of that ~

last 2 eps is going to be raw from the looks of it...great fun :3

wingdarkness

2007-06-15, 17:57

If you want to see how it ends, you can always go to the library or your local book store and pick up the manga.

I understand your whole obsession with having people buy and research all things anime and manga, but Jesus there's 1 ep left and people have been watching for a year and just want some closure...sheeesh....

But with that said I have full confidence we'll all see the finale before we're forced to get a library card...Then I'll simply buy the series from Viz and watch it again..

Shiroth

2007-06-15, 18:48

England would be a wonderful place if you could walk into your local library and pick up A Death Note.
Sorry, just couldn't help myself. ^^;;

Viz sure know the meaning of great timing.

As for seeing Death Note in the UK. I wouldn't be that surprised if we see it right after the US release.

TigerII

2007-06-15, 19:01

Er...I won't say where but the manga in English is on the internet...

Also, do you know how many groups are subbing DN? There are alot they even hide their name. Also they could do what has been done on Youtube just a little wider. Release the episode for a day or two then pull it out. I really don't think we have to worry about seeing the last episode. Someone will most likely do it.

But I see the tactic Viz is using. We all love it, wait till last episode then C&D and start pumping out DVDs. That way a large majority will buy the last DVD. But why have just the last few episodes, so you go and buy the others to complete the series. Smart but cheap tactic.

And wow the dubbed version of Light, just did not seem right.

Wosho128

2007-06-15, 19:38

If you want to see how it ends, you can always go to the library or your local book store and pick up the manga.

That's a good idea.

But if you're referring to me, I've already read all of the manga awhile ago. I just wanted to see the ending animated.

Hmmm...regarding Tiger's response; I don't think Viz's tactic is too smart. I feel that they should have acted on a C&D request earlier. If their intentions were to stop fans from downloading DN fansubs; they should have acted promptly. When I first started downloading Death Note, I saw thousands upon thousands of peers on bit torrent who were doing the same. Fans have already seen a vast majority of the series through fansubs. Cutting off fan consumption at this point and time is odd.

Ah well, I'm buying the DVDs anyway.

dDk

2007-06-15, 20:50

Just loved it how viz sent the C&D letter when fansubbers nearly finished the series...

may sound childish..but i'm not buying anything from viz media

Carrie Asagiri

2007-06-15, 22:15

VIZ can loose their dvds in their ass. I wont buy them. I prefer to get the R2 dvds instead to buy their crap.
I think that they must be brainless to make that with the last two episodes. Or they didn't know that fansubs are free publicity for them. People who watch the fansubs and love the series, will buy the dvds for sure. But with this attitude they can go to hell.

Lumir

2007-06-15, 22:43

Isnt it funny how such an announcement can stir up so many people? To be honest i could give a rats ass if its licensed or not. A company buying the "rights" to a popular anime that is already 30 eps in is seriously mistaken if they think they will stop english subs from continuing to be distibuted on the web. Just look at naruto and bleach...

There are just so many ways around such "limitations", but only the patient and smart shall find them, and DL them safely. I for one will not be subject to some money hungry company that is going to try and force me to pay them for something that i already have 30+ eps with english subs in, or that i can watch on i-tv for free .

Granted someone outside the US continues were the other subbers left off i will probably download and watch the series subbed in english without even having to worry about a silly company who is trying to make money off of a series that is already near its end, and willing to sue anyone affliated with "unofficial" subs.

What a joke. Its just to bad such good subbers will have to stop subbing because a silly company is being greedy.

gnuffiehot

2007-06-16, 06:08

Jeez ladies, someone'll sub it. Don't worry, be happy.

*dloads episode 35 raw to start making karaokes =__=*

The thing is, C&D letters are fun and all, but don't apply to Europe. Subbing anime is illegal, if it's licenced or not.
With Viz licencing it, it doesn't change a thing for European fansub groups. So if you have a tracker that is based in Europe, are a group that is based in Europe, and have people uploading that are based in Europe, at least Viz can't touch you.

The Japanese animation studio on the other hand...

Anyways, don't worry, I know some other people that wish Viz a royal screw-over, so it'll get subbed.

Maes Hughes

2007-06-16, 09:21

Sorry, just couldn't help myself. ^^;;

Viz sure know the meaning of great timing.

As for seeing Death Note in the UK. I wouldn't be that surprised if we see it right after the US release.

We'll probably see Evil Notebook start to get released on DVD during 2008. God only knows when we'll be seeing a box set, 2010 might not actually be be that unrealistic when it comes to the UK and anime...

Lots of older series have randomly started getting released in box sets recently - I spent ages last night putting all the box sets on my DVD price watch list. Maybe the UK is finally taking anime seriously? Even Berserk is coming over here!

wingdarkness

2007-06-16, 18:09

^Your acting like the UK will have to wait until the Box-set is physically in the mall down the street...As soon as episodes are released if you have any sort of interweb accessibility you'll be able to get Bad Loose-Leaf Paper as quick as you can type out your debit card number...

I'm just curious how many eps per disc cause if it's 4 per disc we'll be looking at a year atleast, but I have a feeling [adult swim] is gonna get this show and release the eps before the DVD is finished...

Maes Hughes

2007-06-16, 19:54

Importing a DVD box set = Expensive + Damage risky.
I got hit with a 4 week wait and lovely £21 customs charge (after picking it up from town myself!!!) when I imported the Gungrave box set. Very annoying the other box set I ordered from the same store got marked down.

And, although it's kinda OT, are HD-DVD/Blu-ray players region locked when it comes to standard DVDs? If so, that's another reason for me to avoid importing DVDs. :p

zephyr360

2007-06-16, 19:57

To vent my frustration VIZ has just funked itself up .. i never liked dubbed anime nor will i ever do so and VIZ acquire copyrights for DN means that I will boycott all their products/ releases-not that i ever was their fan to begin- simple

Scep

2007-06-16, 22:41

We'll probably see Evil Notebook start to get released on DVD during 2008.

Wait... they renamed it to THAT?

bayoab

2007-06-16, 22:56

The thing is, C&D letters are fun and all, but don't apply to Europe. Subbing anime is illegal, if it's licenced or not.
With Viz licencing it, it doesn't change a thing for European fansub groups. So if you have a tracker that is based in Europe, are a group that is based in Europe, and have people uploading that are based in Europe, at least Viz can't touch you.
.Um, in this case... no. Viz/Shueisha have the worldwide rights to Death Note and all associated trademarks and copyrights. It does not matter which country you live in.

A company buying the "rights" to a popular anime that is already 30 eps in is seriously mistaken if they think they will stop english subs from continuing to be distibuted on the web.
The license was announced at episode 13 or so and the worldwide rights were announced by episode 20 or so.

Or they didn't know that fansubs are free publicity for them. People who watch the fansubs and love the series, will buy the dvds for sure. But with this attitude they can go to hell.
Why do you think companies want distribution of fansubs stopped when they license the series? The answer is they HURT sales. Many people don't buy series because the fansubs are available. They are not free publicity. (Especially for a series like death note where it isn't like it needed to be subbed to be popular.)
As was just said, "why go out and buy it when its free on the web".

Royal_Devil

2007-06-16, 23:45

Wait... they renamed it to THAT?

Please tell me you're not serious

gnuffiehot

2007-06-17, 00:42

Um, in this case... no. Viz/Shueisha have the worldwide rights to Death Note and all associated trademarks and copyrights. It does not matter which country you live in.

Can you get me a source on that? All I seem to be able to find is:

http://www.animeondvd.com/news/pr.php?pr_view=915

Either way, Viz made a mistake by sending those cease and desist letters when there are just 2 episodes to go. Heck, those letters tell groups to stop distributing on the 22nd, which means that by then, there will be just ONE episode to go.

That I just find offensive to fans. They had the rights, as you said, back when the series wasn't even halfway, if they'd send those things out then I would've understood and agreed, now I find it really annoying and no fun at all.

bayoab

2007-06-17, 01:45

Can you get me a source on that?
Here is the original of it:

2-1-07 (4:08AM EST)---- Worldwide Death Note Anime Licensing Spread
Nippon Television Network Corporation announced on Wednseday that they have wrapped agreements with several international licensees regarding Death Note TV. Plans are to have their Death Note anime TV series release on a worldwide scale, centering on American, Asian and European territories. The live action film has already seen release in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and South Korea. Broadcast, DVD, distribution and merchandising rights have been awarded to VIZ Media in the American and European regions. Television broadcast of the series will come first followed by a DVD release campaign and character merchandising to commence from this spring. A similar market schedule is expected for Europe.
I do not have the NTV link nor is it in the original post.

Ezek

2007-06-17, 10:11

TigerII

2007-06-17, 19:08

Why do you think companies want distribution of fansubs stopped when they license the series? The answer is they HURT sales. Many people don't buy series because the fansubs are available. They are not free publicity. (Especially for a series like death note where it isn't like it needed to be subbed to be popular.)
As was just said, "why go out and buy it when its free on the web".

You can even find licensed shows on the internet. If you look hard enough you can find any show on the internet. Maybe in the dark corners, but they are there.

wingdarkness

2007-06-20, 01:12

Well looks like we were all pi$$ed for nothing...And that's all I'll say^^...

Slice of Life

2007-06-20, 07:33

Um, in this case... no. Viz/Shueisha have the worldwide rights to Death Note and all associated trademarks and copyrights. It does not matter which country you live in.

Ah, this discussion again. So lets all sing it together: "The very second an anime is created somebody holds the rights. Worldwide." In this case and in every other case. So yes, legally nothing has changed with Viz entering the stage as licensee. Neither in the US, nor Europe, nor Japan.

BTime

2007-06-20, 21:31

It was bound to happen sooner or later, but it's quite a low blow to do it right before the series ended seeing as how the DVDs won't be available for a very, very long time.

Oh well, I for one will happily buy a dual audio DVD Death Note release. If anyone else has seen the dub trailer, you'll know how badly they butchered the voices once again.

Viz has one of the worst groups of voice actors in the business. Something like 2 guys, a girl, and a monkey. At least the Monkey is somewhat tolerable.

Pepperidge

2007-06-21, 03:05

Viz has one of the worst groups of voice actors in the business. Something like 2 guys, a girl, and a monkey. At least the Monkey is somewhat tolerable.

Viz doesn't have an in-house dubbing studio. Different studios produce their dubs. While Bang Zoom in LA handled Naruto and Bleach, Death Note is going to be dubbed by Ocean Studios, most likely in Vancouver.

I must ask: why do people even bring up the dub as a detractor for the show being licensed? People seem to forget that 99.99999% of anime DVDs have the original Japanese track with English subtitles, and Death Note will not be an exception. It shouldn't even be a factor. There's no reason to care about whether the dub is good or bad.

wingdarkness

2007-06-21, 03:30

...Different studios produce their dubs. While Bang Zoom in LA handled Naruto and Bleach, Death Note is going to be dubbed by Ocean Studios, most likely in Vancouver.

...People seem to forget that 99.99999% of anime DVDs have the original Japanese track with English subtitles, and Death Note will not be an exception. It shouldn't even be a factor. There's no reason to care about whether the dub is good or bad.

Ever thought that some people would love to enjoy a good voiced anime in their own language?? (Crazy isn't it? --Enjoying something done well in english >.>)...Cowboy Bebop, GITSSAC, Paranoia Agent, amoung the few that make an english dub worth it...I can deal with Bang Zooom, but letting Ocean Group (Basically Inuyasha and Gundam SEED) do the dub is almost unforgivable for DEATHNOTE...Why? Because I rate DN as a higher caliber of show deserving the better VA's...Some of us want a different experience watching it the 2nd time around and God it's great when good english acting provides us that chance...

Lambda

2007-06-21, 04:48

It's a pity they had to go and get all legal and threatening. I was planning on buying the series up until now. Well, at least up to episode 25. That would have been nice. But you can't give money to a company which behaves like that. A more pleasant company somewhere will benefit.

mist2123

2007-06-21, 20:25

You can even find licensed shows on the internet. If you look hard enough you can find any show on the internet. Maybe in the dark corners, but they are there.

yep some are so dark that it will break ur pc(personal experience):heh:

Royal_Devil

2007-06-22, 08:55

Ever thought that some people would love to enjoy a good voiced anime in their own language?? (Crazy isn't it? --Enjoying something done well in english >.>)...Cowboy Bebop, GITSSAC, Paranoia Agent, amoung the few that make an english dub worth it...I can deal with Bang Zooom, but letting Ocean Group (Basically Inuyasha and Gundam SEED) do the dub is almost unforgivable for DEATHNOTE...Why? Because I rate DN as a higher caliber of show deserving the better VA's...Some of us want a different experience watching it the 2nd time around and God it's great when good english acting provides us that chance...

It's interesting how Ocean can give us a Cowboy Bebop-level dub for Black Lagoon yet mess up on another anime so quickly.

Pepperidge

2007-06-22, 17:33

It's interesting how Ocean can give us a Cowboy Bebop-level dub for Black Lagoon yet mess up on another anime so quickly.

And Bang Zoom has done very subpar productions as well. The ridiculously literal dub for Eureka seveN is one of only many examples. Personally, while you can name a few good examples, I find most LA dubs to be fairly mediocre, especially since they've had a very strong tendency to use the same voices over and over again in recent productions. Honestly now, would you have wanted to hear L being played by Johnny Young Bosch? Because that's probably what you would've gotten.

Bang Zoom and Ocean both do bad dubs. But Bang Zoom and Ocean both do fantastic dubs as well. There is absolutely no grounds to think that the Death Note dub is going to be bad. If the dub were being done in Calgary, then I'd be worried, but Vancouver's track record is no worse than LA's.

But again, even if the dub is bad, why should it be a detractor for Viz? You'd only want to watch the subtitled version anyway.