Death Note Episode 16 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

monir

2007-01-30, 18:17

Welcome to the discussion thread for Death Note, Episode 16!

Thread Guidelines
Keep spoilers from the Manga out of the anime thread, or face a BAN!
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No telling or asking for RAWs.
If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the Manga, either PM them or post in the Manga thread. Please be considerate of anime only watchers, too many manga spoilers are being posted, so please, no more!
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.

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http://content.imagesocket.com/thumbs/snapshot200701301727202d7.jpg (http://imagesocket.com/view/snapshot200701301727202d7.jpg)

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Please remember, no manga spoilers are allowed in this thread!

Shiroth

2007-01-30, 19:00

First of - i'd like to say that the forest is looking beautiful, even better with Rem there. <3

Anyway.. I'm happy to see that the story has slown down a lil'. Since Misa's appearance, the series has been one roller-coaster from episode to episode. Though episode 16 slows it all down, good to see - i can now understand a bit more how they plan to finish it with 37 episodes in total.

Of course, the episode carries from the last, explaining just why Light said what he to Ryuk. I won't spoil, so people can enjoy - though it looks like we'll have the 'fun' car journey. :3

ThoHell

2007-01-30, 19:06

One word....DANGGGG

I didn't expect any of this! Light turning himself in like that was shocking. LOL gotta love Misa, though being tortured still had some spunk left, calling L a hentai was great :P! Did you see Light facial expression drastically change when Ryuuk left? WOW, complete 180.

monir

2007-01-30, 19:21

Screenshot: I'll provide the screenshot. Will watch the episode sometime tonight. :)

http://content.imagesocket.com/thumbs/death_16865.jpg (http://imagesocket.com/view/death_16865.jpg)

The-Ghost

2007-01-30, 21:40

looks liek a good ep big turning point to leave L going WTF happened i was wrong? im going to wait till i get a subbed copy of the ep before voting. lol Misa called L a hentia.

Ardea

2007-01-30, 22:06

"Watashi wa... hentai?"

XD.

Apple withdrawal symptoms! Never thought we'd get to see that again :D

My sympathy goes to Light's father, who seems to be gradually suffering from the Kira case in every episode he appears in. First we see his hair graying, his heart attack, and now we see him locking himself up and disheveled and until his son is freed. If any character has gained more and more of my respect, it's definitely him. :(

It's amazing how drastic Misa and Light's personalities change when they are no longer in possession of the Death Notes. Poor L is so confused now. No one else on the task force seems to have noticed the difference in their behaviors. It also surprised me that L would slap Matsuda's hand like that. And, what was L eating in the episode? The weird melon thing? o_O

For once in the series, I kind of like Light a little bit. Only when he's not Kira. Seeing him turn red and grin evilly in every episode was a bit tiresome. I can't wait to see what "innocent" Light does without his memories of the Death Note, and how L will deal with all of this ;P

aohige

2007-01-31, 01:29

what was L eating in the episode? The weird melon thing? o_O

Ham on melon.
He was taking off the ham, and just eating melon though.

smeg4brainsuk

2007-01-31, 10:05

Not as brilliant as the last episode but still fantatsic. Light is just an utter genius :D

shakildwz

2007-01-31, 10:07

SealedTears

2007-01-31, 10:15

this is the best episode so faar in my eyes

i think hes put a note somewhere in the house to where he hide the death note and everything about him. so he forgets and then he goes and finds it agend :P

well just a tough that probly isent gona happen. but this episode is like OMFG WTF in my eyes

smeg4brainsuk

2007-01-31, 10:24

I been left dazzed and confused.

Did Light really lose possession of the Death note and lost his memories? Or is he just acting like that on purpose. If he did lose his memories, why would he do that unless he'd get his memories back somehow.

And then how did all those criminals die after 2 weeks. Light's obvious plan was to make L really confused on who Kira really is, but he got me confused as well ;'(
UGH .

My guess on that part is that Light wrote all their names in and when Ryuk discarded it for another to find it they completed it (by filling in missing info or maybe Light had wrote something along the lines of "when this book is found...")

Also as far as i can tell, he has truely lost his memories of the Death Note, but im pretty sure he wrote/planned some sort of fail safe so that the death note will return to him and he will be able to continue at a later date. Perhaps he left slips of death note paper in his room/wrote something in for the 3rd kira, who knows.

But i refuse to read the manga till this show is over, so its all just my theory ^^

Ryuk

2007-01-31, 10:56

Another great episode. Man I digg Yagami Light, he's a genius.

Zu Ra

2007-01-31, 11:58

Intresting ep sounds as though has the some level of excitement as 8/9 ep . Yes L is Hentai -woot- First Butt Grabing and now this :D

kauldron26

2007-01-31, 14:32

after reading the manga, i am somewhat underwhelmed because the whole show sacrifices character development for twists upon twists and reverse twists…

SephirothYuyX

2007-01-31, 14:35

Oh wow another excellent episode, im torn between this episode and EP15 as being the best so far.

bkg9990

2007-01-31, 15:25

I been left dazzed and confused.

Did Light really lose possession of the Death note and lost his memories? Or is he just acting like that on purpose. If he did lose his memories, why would he do that unless he'd get his memories back somehow.

And then how did all those criminals die after 2 weeks. Light's obvious plan was to make L really confused on who Kira really is, but he got me confused as well ;'(
UGH .

He did lost his memories, remeber that he discarded the owndership of the note, oh and the killings will be unraveled maybe on the next episode.. look again on the "next episode" part, we see a new guy smiling:heh:

as you can see, Light is pure genius on this one.

but tracking on the episode, I wonder how they will fit all the manga elements:rolleyes:

PS:
fave part - Misa: "Stalker-san i can give you a kiss" XD

smeg4brainsuk

2007-01-31, 16:12

PS:
fave part - Misa: "Stalker-san i can give you a kiss" XD

I love how calm she actually became in that scene, it almost made you think that she comes to expect this kind of thing happening to her.

Misa talking to L when he wont let her go to the bathroom - "You get to see me pee again. Dont you like that? YOU PERVERT!!!" XD

ThoHell

2007-01-31, 19:48

MAN, with the preview for next week's episode, I CAN'T WAIT ANYMORE! Already in my withdraw phase.....~_~

Pakxenon

2007-02-01, 00:18

My guess on that part is that Light wrote all their names inWhat I was thinking... until I... ahem. I hate you, stupid keyboard. :(
Again, I read the manga AFTER I finished the episode. It's a shame they keep missing a few details here and there, but nothing to worry about.

And this episode is confusing as hell. Everything, as Aizawa said, is full of contradictions. Then when the mass 2-week make up happened, I thought it was allllllllllllllllll Light-o-sama's doing. Then I saw the crazy car in the preview. I hate this weekly schedule.

guenthar

2007-02-01, 00:22

This is my most favorite episode of my mosat favrite series ever.

What I think about how the criminals for the past 2 weeks could have been killed is that before Light turned himself in he wrote someone into his Death Note with details to make the person pickup the Death Note. After that the person would write the names of the criminals for the past 2 weeks and from then on till he gives the Death Note back to Light and kills himself.

monir

2007-02-01, 03:14

I agree with everyone who has thought this episode is one of the best so far. I think if all the mentioned key points are listed, then the content of this episode will start making sense. I'll have to rewatch the episode before I start comprehending things a bit clearer, but I'll start the list with a few key developments..

*Light has returned Misa's DN to Rem.

*Misa doesn't retain any memory about Kira, Rem, DN, and all the killings she has done herself. However, she "knows" Light is her boyfriend.

*Light has buried his DN. He tells Ryuk that he will "throw away" the Death Note at a given time.

*Light comes to L and agreed to remain in L's custody until all suspicion on him by L is cleared.

*Light is hinting toward the possibility that he is Kira, but he is simply not aware of himself when he turns into Kira.

*L deduces that Light is turning himself up in an attempt to clear himself of the suspicion that he is Kira. The reasoning is, if murdering of the criminals happen even after Light is under L's custody then Light cannot be Kira.

*Light and his father are placed in confinement. Light's father is kept upto date to any progression made with the investigation. Light's father is also given a cell phone.

*After 7 days, Light sends out his signal to Ryuk about "throwing out" the Death Note by mixing those words with "pride". Light will "throw out his pride." Ryuk acknowledges and leaves Light's company. Immediately after, Light is baffled by his confinement. He knows why he is confined by L, but he profusely claims, he is not Kira.

*After 15 days execution of the criminals starts taking place once again.

*Over joyous Matsuda informs Light's father of this new development. When Matsuda tries to inform the same to Light, he is stopped by L. L asks Light to come clear about the fact that Light is Kira, because there has been no murders after Light was into L's custody. L hides the fact about this new development from Light!

I'm sure I've missed out on a few more key points about this episode. Feel free to add them. Also, please feel free to correct me where it is necessary.

anselfir

2007-02-01, 03:39

I find increasingly DN episodes are becoming modular, a story in themselves, and the whole show is turning into a series of episodes, instead of one continuous flowing story. It has become an action series.

The episode started with some ridiculous developments that are fleshed out reasonably well (considering the short time).

Rei_Battlecake

2007-02-01, 08:39

Sendoh718

2007-02-01, 12:48

one of two possible reasons

1) he wrote their names down with a date more than 10 days after he turned himself in, the limit is more than 20 days.

2) someone else found one of the two Death Notes.

psycho bolt

2007-02-01, 13:37

Ater watching ep 16, I was pretty much confused. Did Light lose his memories when Ryuk left? Or was it all an act.

smeg4brainsuk

2007-02-01, 14:09

Ater watching ep 16, I was pretty much confused. Did Light lose his memories when Ryuk left? Or was it all an act.

He has lost all his memories, arent things like this meant to be kept as spoiler text 0o

bkg9990

2007-02-01, 14:13

one of two possible reasons

1) he wrote their names down with a date more than 10 days after he turned himself in, the limit is more than 20 days.

2) someone else found one of the two Death Notes.
1. nope, he didn't.. and 2. that's what the car is for ;) (if you get my drift)

Ater watching ep 16, I was pretty much confused. Did Light lose his memories when Ryuk left? Or was it all an act.
as stated on my previous reply, he "discarded" the ownership of the death note. You can see it with his eyes, in the previous episode, there was a "removed" or rather blank sub where rem and light talked. The explination of episode 15-16 will be explained later, im presuming episodes 18-19 maybe but im not sure:heh:

Andu

2007-02-01, 14:20

After seeing this, im really glad i finished the manga before watching the anime. This would have left me too confused to be able to wait for the next episode. An excellent episode, if i may add. This (imo) covers the best part of the story.

monir

2007-02-01, 20:53

Well I get what Light's trying to do by turning himself in as "possibly being Kira" but I really don't get how he managed that the newly announced criminals got punished after he'd thrown away his Death Note...
I think it will start making sense as soon as we understand what exactly Light did with his DN.

Ater watching ep 16, I was pretty much confused. Did Light lose his memories when Ryuk left? Or was it all an act.
I'm confused as well. There really aren't any obvious clues to make any deduction that if Light is faking it, or if he truly has lost his memory. But, if he lost his memory, then it raises boat load of questions such as why Light still remembers that he is interrogated under the suspicion that he is Kira? If we assume that he gave up his DN when he said I "discard my pride," then wouldn't he suppose to forget everything associated with the DN just like Misa? This question leads to another question: can a DN user have a choice of how much memory s/he may loose?

I'm confused as heck! :heh:

Btw, anyone can talk about an episode in an episode discussion thread without using spoiler tags. Some of us are adding the spoiler tags as a courtesy to the viewers who have yet to watch this episode. That said, any manga spoiler even under a spoiler tag is a big no-no in an episode discussion thread. Feel free to PM me if you don't understand something from what I just said here. ;)

Theowne

2007-02-01, 21:17

then wouldn't he suppose to forget everything associated with the DN just like Misa?

It seems to me it's a very specific thing about forgetting only about the Death Note. Even though Misa forgets about the Death Note, and that Light is Kira, and anything related to the DN or the shinigami, she still remembers that a boy named Light is her boyfriend. In a similar way Light has probably "forgotten" that he is the killer named Kira, or what the Death Note is - but everything else stays intact. He knows he is part of the Kira investigation force tracking down Kira, run by L, etc. He is completely unaware of anything regarding him being Kira.

I'm an anime watcher, so that's just my interpretation of what I happened.

monir

2007-02-01, 21:40

It seems to me it's a very specific thing about forgetting only about the Death Note. Even though Misa forgets about the Death Note, and that Light is Kira, and anything related to the DN or the shinigami, she still remembers that a boy named Light is her boyfriend. In a similar way Light has probably "forgotten" that he is the killer named Kira, or what the Death Note is - but everything else stays intact. He knows he is part of the Kira investigation force tracking down Kira, run by L, etc. He is completely unaware of anything regarding him being Kira.

I'm an anime watcher, so that's just my interpretation of what I happened.
That's a good explanation. I still feel the provided explanation is very little as to how much or what a DN user forgets when s/he chooses to relinquish it. Besides, it is still not clear from this episode that Light truly has forgotten. He could very well be faking this whole thing.

Ardea

2007-02-01, 22:32

monir

2007-02-01, 23:03

I think Light really does lose his memories. Otherwise, I don't believe that there would need to be such a focus on the imagery of his dark, narrowed eyes becoming wide, bright, and innocent. Ryuk also left his side, indicating Light doesn't own the Death Note anymore. That's just me picking at things like that though. :heh:
He is a good actor. What am I saying.... he is a great actor!! How he conduct himself among his family, in school, and his peers are some of those examples of him being a good actor. The most recent evidence of him being a great actor was after he found out he was under camera surveillance in his own room.

In this occasion, Light is very much aware of all the camera that are watching his every move in that cell. That's why I think a first time viewer cannot automatically assume that Light has lost his memory.

Perhaps once you give up ownership on the Death Note, you lose the "feeling" (guilt? lust for power? etc.) that you've ever used it or knew about it. That's why his innocent self can confidently say he isn't Kira, because he really doesn't have that feeling and knowledge anymore.

Light must know his own behavior quite well in order to pull off whatever he's about to pull off. If his Death-Note-owning self can't convince L and the others of his innocence, his sans-Death-Note self probably can and will somehow (at least the others, probably not L... I hope!)
I've also thought about it this way. I'll add my own speculation in the speculation thread once I rewatched this episode. I think I'm onto something. My "spider sense" is tingling.:D

Btw, those of you who thought Misa was being tortured, well.... after watching this episode, it seems you were wrong. :D

Deathkillz

2007-02-02, 09:08

my god O.o the line that L said is completely correct ~ "i dont know whats what anymore" ~ this one hell of a mind raping for L >.< lol totally unpredictable series :eyespin:

Skyfall

2007-02-02, 12:40

Somehow this ep seemed a bit "slow" and "tame", compared to the few previous ones. But the events sure are interesting. What is(was) Light scheming when he decided to give up Death Note... no doubt he is planning to get it back later on...but how ?

Maybe he wrote in the Death Note (before giving it up) that some one<insert specific person> will find it, use it for a set amount of time, and then will deliver it to him (and kicking the bucket after that ofc...)... maybe thats how he is planning to regain the note and his memories :eyespin:

Man...what a mindblender.

Sinestra

2007-02-02, 16:46

Did anyone else's mind implode during this episode?

I must say this one of the most mind warping episodes to date. At first i couldnt beleive that Light gave up his death note. However it obvious he has a plan to get his book back we dont know what he wrote in it before he buried it. Misa has gone back to her normal self which has confused L and Light has lost his memories as well making L even more confused. Im sure this is a part of Lights plan and in the end he will end up killing L that is my prediction im just getting the feeling that all of this is geared towards that. With murders resuming it obvious that someone else has the book and is following Lights orders that he might have written in the book, he could have put a time limit on it. Since once a name is written in the book the death can not be stopped only adjusted.

I cant wait for the next one im going crazy for it the waiting hurts the most.

Misa calling L Stalker-San was great

Ardea

2007-02-03, 03:36

He is a good actor. What am I saying.... he is a great actor!! How he conduct himself among his family, in school, and his peers are some of those examples of him being a good actor. The most recent evidence of him being a great actor was after he found out he was under camera surveillance in his own room.

True, he's so good at acting I don't even know how he manages to keep all his personalities in order :eyespin:

Still, if he was acting, I don't think there'd be a reason for Ryuk to leave. Ryuk is there to be entertained, saying something to Light in the beginning something like, "I'll stick around until that notebook is done, or you're done." But I can see where it can be viewed as acting for someone viewing it for the first time.

Btw, those of you who thought Misa was being tortured, well.... after watching this episode, it seems you were wrong. :D

I don't necessarily think it's wrong. The imagery provided can suggest it, and the lack of imagery and literal description can suggest otherwise! Death Note seems to enjoy being ambiguous like that. :)

Not sure of the extent of memory loss, but maybe another reason why Rem suggested to Misa to relinquish ownership of the Death Note was also so Misa wouldn't remember the more traumatizing part of the interrogation related to Kira. Misa is more lively and comfortable, now that she doesn't remember anything about the Death Note. Her changed behavior also seems to be helping her loosen some of the restraints that were on her previously.

This episode was crazy though. I think it was meant to confuse the viewer as it did L :heh:

Suna no tate

2007-02-03, 12:53

I haven't read the manga. I won't read the manga. I've watched all the episodes up till now. I'm completely fooled as to how he killed those criminals. Really good mysterious stuff

Theowne

2007-02-03, 13:12

When I used to watch Naruto consistently, there would occasionally be episodes that would make me want to go and spoil myself with the manga (eventually, that urge won and I became a manga reader). I didn't really watch those kind of shows for a while, so I never experienced it again, till now with this episode of Death Note :heh:

Besides, it is still not clear from this episode that Light truly has forgotten. He could very well be faking this whole thing.

He could, but that seems to contradict all the events and information that happened leading up to his discarding the Death Note. His instructions and farewell to Ryuk, for one. It all seemed to imply that he was planning to discard the Death Note and his memories.

I don't think the extent of the memory loss will really ever be explained because there's too many questions - like if a person has a memory connected in some way to the Death Note, etc talking to Misa at his home about the entire Kira ordeal, does he forget that too? Or does he remember he had Misa in his house but doesn't remember they talked about Kira - but then how does he remember knowing about Misa or........etc.....

monir

2007-02-03, 16:51

Still, if he was acting, I don't think there'd be a reason for Ryuk to leave.
Why not? Ryuk and Light made a prior agreement as to how Light intend to carry out his plan. Light recited those signal words and off went Ryuk. Since we don't exactly know what really transpired between the two, we can't assume anything with certainty. :)

I don't necessarily think it's wrong. The imagery provided can suggest it, and the lack of imagery and literal description can suggest otherwise! Death Note seems to enjoy being ambiguous like that. :)
It is most definitely not the imagery. Visual imageries are the main reason a lot of the fans assume Misa was tortured. They saw her all tied up, and because the old man had a syringe on his hand along with some funny looking liquid. Almost all of us have experienced an injection or two in one time or another in our life time. And since it is safe to assume that almost none of us will associate an injection with happy memories, Misa's getting a few shots by the old man is easily explained as torture.. :heh: Fact is, if enough attention paid to the spoken dialogues which is the meat of this series, then a lot of the things start making sense. In my humble opinion, the self realization of many of those unsaid things are what drawing so many fans to this show. Fans that are reaching to a conclusion by relying mostly on the visual interpretation of things, will be in for a rude shock when they finally understand how grossly off track they always have been. In fact, that observation has been proven in couple of occasion already.

I wish more anime-only viewers who never read the manga or watched any of the live action movie, would post their thoughts so I could enjoy reading their impression of the series, and enjoy their bafflement along with mine. :)

His instructions and farewell to Ryuk, for one. It all seemed to imply that he was planning to discard the Death Note and his memories.
I disagree! :) There haven't been enough said in the episode to reach to that conclusion. Memory loss is one of the two equal possibilities we can entertain at the moment.

Xosen

2007-02-03, 18:00

I really think Light is not acting at the end of the episode. In fact it's the perfect act as he now truly believes what he is saying. Even a lie detector would now show that he is telling the truth, as he now truly believes he is not Kira.

However I still not understand why there has been 15 days without criminal dying. If criminals keep dying, it would also prove that Light is not Kira, so at this point I can only think this was intended to try to mess up L's deductions.

I believe Light is not in danger at the moment, but I really can't imagine how he is going to prove that Misa is not the second Kira......

monir

2007-02-03, 19:36

However I still not understand why there has been 15 days without criminal dying.
I think the question of "Why?" has much more easier answer than the question of "how?" How did he manage to kill those people? How did Ryuk help out? If Light indeed looses his memory, how does he plan to recover from his temporary amnesia? How? How? How?

Btw, there were 8 days of interval before the murder start happening. Light put his plan into motion at the 7th day of his confinement. News of people dying were out on the 15th day of their captivity. 15-7=8.. :)

psycho bolt

2007-02-03, 19:53

Hmm this episode also made me ponder how will Light get his Death Note back if he lost his memories already.

Ardea

2007-02-03, 22:30

It is most definitely not the imagery. Visual imageries are the main reason a lot of the fans assume Misa was tortured. They saw her all tied up, and because the old man had a syringe on his hand along with some funny looking liquid. Almost all of us have experienced an injection or two in one time or another in our life time. And since it is safe to assume that almost none of us will associate an injection with happy memories, Misa's getting a few shots by the old man is easily explained as torture.. :heh: Fact is, if enough attention paid to the spoken dialogues which is the meat of this series, then a lot of the things start making sense. In my humble opinion, the self realization of many of those unsaid things are what drawing so many fans to this show. Fans that are reaching to a conclusion by relying mostly on the visual interpretation of things, will be in for a rude shock when they finally understand how grossly off track they always have been. In fact, that observation has been proven in couple of occasion already.

I feel like whatever I am posting may be misinterpreted, because I feel like I'm debating, which is not my intention! :heh:

I just don't feel like interpretations for the show are wrong though, if people hear, read, and see different things. That's all. ^^;

Is it really a rude shock if people discover they are off track? I think that's what makes anything with an element of mystery very enjoyable and engrossing! I wouldn't buy a mystery novel if I could easily guess who the criminal was, nor if everything was clearly what it was. :)

monir

2007-02-03, 23:57

I just don't feel like interpretations for the show are wrong though, if people hear, read, and see different things. That's all. ^^;
I agree! That's probably the reason why I like arguing about such things, mind you, nothing serious other than some playful jabbering.

Is it really a rude shock if people discover they are off track? I think that's what makes anything with an element of mystery very enjoyable and engrossing! I wouldn't buy a mystery novel if I could easily guess who the criminal was, nor if everything was clearly what it was. :)
My apology. Now that I read my last sentence with the accompanying words "rude shock," it does seem like I'm trying to win an argument here with some choice words. That wasn't my intention at all. I promise I'll behave. :)

Taht said, I still stand by my understanding that enough hasn't been thrown in our way to give leeway to one of the two possibilities associated with Light's recent behavior: if he is acting, or if he has forgotten. I also don't think Misa was tortured. :D

Xosen

2007-02-04, 05:18

I think the question of "Why?" has much more easier answer than the question of "how?" How did he manage to kill those people? How did Ryuk help out? If Light indeed looses his memory, how does he plan to recover from his temporary amnesia? How? How? How?

I can't see Ryuk being part of the plan. He has never tried to help Light, except when finding the cameras, but that was because he wanted some juicy apples... ^_^

So at this point I believe it's Rem who is doing the killing, and who will give him Misa's death note once Light is set free. Will he recover his memories once he is in possession of a death note? Than I don't know......

Scep

2007-02-04, 10:26

Xosen

2007-02-04, 17:17

Ryuk cant get apples on his own anyway. Not unless some apple on the fruit stall starts disappearing mysteriously. Rem i believe has left the story already. Since misa's death note is with rem, then i get a wierd feeling that the story will take a turn towards the death note entering a 3rd person's hands, and light trying to get that death note. The whole thing is a very confusing concept, since light, being not kira anymore, shouldnt have any memories of a death note, thus he wouldnt be able to get the death note, but he cant just lose his death note like that, he is the protagonist after all :/

IIRC Ryuk has to be near Light while he is the owner of his Death Note, so he can't go to find some apples. Now he can go to an apple tree and eat some apples :P Maybe I'm wrong....

Rem is still an important part of the story. Light will die if Misa is not saved, so Rem has to be somewhere watching whats happening.... well, maybe not near, Rem can still watch what's happening from the Shinigami's world, no?

I can't see Light trusting a third person, or Rem giving Misa's death note to someone different than Light.... maybe Ryuk will give his Death Note to someone else, as enjoys watching interesting humans....

Antonik

2007-02-04, 22:37

I agree! That's probably the reason why I like arguing about such things, mind you, nothing serious other than some playful jabbering.

My apology. Now that I read my last sentence with the accompanying words "rude shock," it does seem like I'm trying to win an argument here with some choice words. That wasn't my intention at all. I promise I'll behave. :)

Taht said, I still stand by my understanding that enough hasn't been thrown in our way to give leeway to one of the two possibilities associated with Light's recent behavior: if he is acting, or if he has forgotten. I also don't think Misa was tortured. :D
I believe she was tortured. I mean she didn't care for her well being as long as Light was happy, and I think she believed her Knight in shining armor would rescue her. But once we see her in that confinement shes broken and asks Rem to kill her, and in parts she was moaning :-D which was missing when her memories were erased. Theres also the line where L tell the old guy to use any means necessary to get her to talk, and I think it was more of an order rather than a scare tactic.

I really think theres enough proof (Don't know if i can call it that) to show that she indeed was tortured.

But but actually If Light was able to remember that he himself said that he was Kira, and he though someone was controlling him. Then I would say that Misa would remmember being tortured, but since she wasn't worried about Stalker-san hurting her at first, it would be relative safe to assume she was not hurt by L but by the Death Note related stuff that she forgot, and all that was used on her were truth serums if that :)

It could go either way since like you said we don't know the extent of the memory loss inhibited by Light and Misa.

IIRC Ryuk has to be near Light while he is the owner of his Death Note, so he can't go to find some apples. Now he can go to an apple tree and eat some apples :P Maybe I'm wrong....

Rem is still an important part of the story. Light will die if Misa is not saved, so Rem has to be somewhere watching whats happening.... well, maybe not near, Rem can still watch what's happening from the Shinigami's world, no?

I can't see Light trusting a third person, or Rem giving Misa's death note to someone different than Light.... maybe Ryuk will give his Death Note to someone else, as enjoys watching interesting humans.... I believe that at the begining Ryuk explained that he doesn't have to be with Light, but he wants to see what happened to him as long as he had the Death Note. There is no rule that a Shinigami has to stay with a human who has a Death Note.

Xosen

2007-02-05, 03:09

I believe that at the begining Ryuk explained that he doesn't have to be with Light, but he wants to see what happened to him as long as he had the Death Note. There is no rule that a Shinigami has to stay with a human who has a Death Note.

Just checked it. In episode 3, around minute 15:30, Ryuk tells Light that he has to be near while Light owns the Death Note.

noir senshi

2007-02-05, 05:15

Episode 15 and 16 has made me realise that both Light and L are despicable but for some reason I very much dislike, perhaps even hate, L. The reason is because of his torturing of Misa. "You may use dubious methods...", that really pissed me off.

Jaden

2007-02-05, 05:29

Okay, finally watched this episode, was waiting for the...better...version.
I also don't read manga.

Anyway, this was very interesting. Light discards Rem's/Misa's Death Note. Then he turns himself in telling L he might subconsciously be Kira. L puts him in jail - after all there's nothing to lose and this might truly be a way to close the case.
2 weeks pass and no criminals are judged. It would seem that Light is Kira, but then his plans are set in motion. He officially discards his Death Note&Ryuk and a bunch of criminals are killed by the third Kira. It will be interesting to see who it is, how Light got him/her to play along, how Light got the timing to match so perfectly, and how he's going to reclaim his position as Kira with his mind wiped. Light is at the moment a genuine member of the Kira investigation team...

Lambda

2007-02-05, 07:00

Brilliant scheme by Light here, it's amazing how much he gets out of the limited resources available to him. It looks like he's trying to give the impression that Kira is something like a spirit which somehow possesses or gets inside people, and left him after seven days. There are a few possibilities by which he could have arranged the continued killings, by consequences of what he wrote in his death note before burying it, or by arranging it with Rem as part of a scheme which would help Misa. How he intends to arrange the return of his 'Kira-ness', as I assume he wants to, is the most interesting part.

Antonik

2007-02-05, 08:16

Just checked it. In episode 3, around minute 15:30, Ryuk tells Light that he has to be near while Light owns the Death Note.
Hmm I could've sworn otherwise, You are right then/

Brilliant scheme by Light here, it's amazing how much he gets out of the limited resources available to him. It looks like he's trying to give the impression that Kira is something like a spirit which somehow possesses or gets inside people, and left him after seven days. There are a few possibilities by which he could have arranged the continued killings, by consequences of what he wrote in his death note before burying it, or by arranging it with Rem as part of a scheme which would help Misa. How he intends to arrange the return of his 'Kira-ness', as I assume he wants to, is the most interesting part. the 7 days might be significant, as Misa was imprisoned for a week aswell until we saw her talk with Rem and she gave up her note.

hitokirigirl

2007-02-05, 10:46

Good Lord, I'm confused as hell, and for some reason, I think Raito is faking his amnesia...

Guido

2007-02-05, 11:30

This is the episode that I call the breaking point. The despair and anxiety building up kept me on the very edge of my seat.

For certain we can coclude as of now that Light pawned L's lights.

But, I do agree with L how would Light would wait between one to two years of imprisonment with the killings stopped from the first day, that would imply that Light's Kira after all.

I can only come up with a definite conclusion to bewilder L that Light was putting up the truth of his act. How? Light came up that Kira developed in his inner psyche and manifests as part of his subsconscious.

That would throw off in and out L of his tracks. He got puzzled and more so to witness that Light was juxtaposing the attitude of his behaviors, which would be something that Kira would never have done.

I do not know if Light alledged to L split personality, and I do not think it would serve for any plausible credibility since a second Kira also exists. It's more that Light went to the extremes for asking of his imprisonment, and L not disclosing any facts from what was happening to the outside world to make L check for himself that Light was afflicted by a wave of lunatic euphoria.

The waiting period was part of the plan. Have L watched Light for seven straight days, then relinquish the Note along with all the memories of the people killed, and stepping out from the darkness with a truly innocent face of naivety which eyes spoke truth on them; a substantial reaction and different from the usual Lightness that L was accustomed to crack his head.

What happens with the killings?

1. Light accorded with Rem to restart the killings approximately in an agreed time limit after she would not have received news from him. So after 14 days of cut off communication, Rem would start killing criminals.
I do not see any violation to the rules because REM is killing people who have absolutely anything involve with Misa. Besides, Misa has not run the danger of being threatened with death.

2. Or Light planned that one of either two notes be handed to a stranger that shares the same ideals as Kira does. On one side is out of the question that Ryuk would accept such term, since he is neither enemy or ally to Light. On the other side is not feasible for Light to make a third Kira, since it is unpredictable and uncertain how that "X" person would react and other drives and motivations to use the note.

GriS

2007-02-05, 12:01

I am also confused... or rather puzzled why Light would just give up ownership of death note.

Brilliant scheme by Light here, it's amazing how much he gets out of the limited resources available to him. It looks like he's trying to give the impression that Kira is something like a spirit which somehow possesses or gets inside people, and left him after seven days. There are a few possibilities by which he could have arranged the continued killings, by consequences of what he wrote in his death note before burying it, or by arranging it with Rem as part of a scheme which would help Misa. How he intends to arrange the return of his 'Kira-ness', as I assume he wants to, is the most interesting part.

the 7 days might be significant, as Misa was imprisoned for a week aswell until we saw her talk with Rem and she gave up her note.

I must say this is really cunning one... if this is indeed true, Light in this case would have fail to convince L.

if Light is locked in the cell for long period of time, he would have lost track of time as he can't see anything outside. Well actually I don't know if we will also be like that if we are in Light's shoe. But assuming this is true, when L said it has been a week, I believe he is faking it to test this theory of spirit possessions since L would be smart enough to obtain as many details from Misa's happening as possible - sudden change in behaviour after 7 days. Probably he said it 8 days after imprisonment or earlier.

This would instead increase L's suspicion that Light is actually Kira trying to perform another strange but cunning act.

The case of all suspects being killed at 15th day really shock me... although many has listed out the possibilities in this thread, I still can't believe it.

But how will Light get death note back? Even if he write and influence third party's actions, he still must be careful not to include his own name in the death note or else it's game over. It would mean it's really difficult for him to get it back even if third party is instructed to place the note near to Light.

But one possible theory on how to get his note back
Third person, controlled by Death Note, hand it to Light himself

From the preview and part of epi 16, i think the third person is...
his own father, it seems they have negligible, if not zero, father-son relationship... probably because Yagami is alway workings and not at home...

Last, I have not read manga, cause I have no interest in reading manga.

FlashCE

2007-02-05, 12:14

I gotta say that the anime, up to this point, is WAY superior to both the Death Note live action movies. This is the first episode I've seen since the second movie and Light's expression in this episode is just godly.

hitokirigirl

2007-02-05, 13:24

From the preview and part of epi 16, i think the third person is...
his own father, it seems they have negligible, if not zero, father-son relationship... probably because Yagami is alway workings and not at home...

I already pointed that out, in the very beginning, and my comment was........... hum, nevermind...
As you said, their relationship is deprived of any affection. In last episode, Yagami was upset about Raito being suspected, and I think it's a matter of his father pride
rather than concern about his son...

The way Raito said "stubborn" to his dad was very harsh. A well brought-up kid like him would never say such irrespectful word to his elder.

monir

2007-02-05, 13:45

Just checked it. In episode 3, around minute 15:30, Ryuk tells Light that he has to be near while Light owns the Death Note.
I've completely forgotten about this. Cookies for you Xosen! :) This is the first solid fact that supports the assessment that Light's memories associated with the DN may indeed have been wiped clean. Oh my gosh! What an audacious Light!

L took a huge gamble by revealing himself to Light. Light is now gambling with his memories just to mislead L? Incredible! Sorry, if I sound high on caffine, but suddenly the episode 17 can't come soon enough.

smeg4brainsuk

2007-02-05, 15:30

lol, all i can say is im glad episode 17 is out tomorrow so we can sort some of this insane mess out and start on other annoying story twists :D

mycen

2007-02-06, 01:35

Now it is Light's turn to take a gamble and put everything he has on the line in this episode. L is so totally confused right now!! Hope that episode 17 gives some meaningful perspective into all this..

GriS

2007-02-06, 06:13

I forget to mention this but no one seems to notice it...

Nearing the end, L called Matsuda without any suffix :o

I can see he is very annoyed with the death of suspects on 15th day and with Matsuda too for getting excited. Lolz

lycantivis

2007-02-07, 16:43

It just shows the truelly bewildered state L's mind is in at that point.

Kisuke06

2007-02-07, 17:42

I wonder how Light will get his Death Note back.

Alucard24

2007-02-09, 16:28

Sorry if I'm mistaking but I thought Kira can control the date of the death ?

Light said himself that he planned the death of criminals for at least 2 weeks after exactly because he didn't want the killing to stop right away he's arrested.

Then, he can write in the death note a date 2 weeks later.

I think he did that to confuse L. L said that he was surprised that killing stoped, he thought that they will continue to innoncent Light but that wasn't the case.

I doubt that Light would give a death note to anyone else ! I'm sure that he did the job himself. After all, what is writted in a DN don't disapear even if the owner is discarded. It WILL happen.

That theory about a spirit could be a good misleading way. L have to be a real genius to see trough all of this....