View Full Version : Code Geass Episode 16 Discussion / Poll
Welcome to the discussion thread for Code Geass, Episode 16!
Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for RAWs.
Try to keep spoilers from the Manga out of the anime thread.
If you need to reply to someone with a reference to the Manga, either PM them or use clearly marked Spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.
Spoiler Tag ExampleDon't forget to use a title for the spoiler!...becomes...Don't forget to use a title for the spoiler!
FSNxPhantom
2007-01-31, 21:40
THE REVENGE OF ... (Not spoiling, though maybe obvious =P)
BEWARE LELOUCHE
Although the premise sounds pretty cliched, here's hoping for either a good execution of it (literally and figuratively) or something completely unexpected.
Although the premise sounds pretty cliched, here's hoping for either a good execution of it (literally and figuratively) or something completely unexpected.
I'm hopping for the later, this episode seems moot if you've read the spoilers but on the other hand it DID feel like they were giving out information a little freely...
THE REVENGE OF ... (Not spoiling, though maybe obvious =P)
BEWARE LELOUCHE
Mao, right? could have sworn that person was dead
then again, this is a series where they shot someone in the head, and she was back again 3 episodes later.
SoldierOfDarkness
2007-01-31, 23:58
The only thing I want to see is Suzaku's mind getting probed by Mao and unlock what makes him tick inside.
That and I want to see Suzaku go berserk over Mao harming Nunally and tear him apart piece by piece, with or without Lancelot and then have Nina get in the way and act as collateral damage. Kill two birds with one stone.
It is said in 2ch that Nanaly will get her sight back in the coming episodes.
May she be the third geass user...lol
It is said in 2ch that Nanaly will get her sight back in the coming episodes.
May she be the third geass user...lol
well, she's not really blind after all.
still, this makes me think of the manga where she gets a new body. wonder if geass powers granted by CC can effect not just mental abilities but physical ones as well.
Mao got pwned lol.
Villetta Nu :naughty: :love: We got to see a nice shot of Villetta Nu after she was saved by Ougi, I dont remember her looking that good. Kallen is still the win im my book.
erm .. drew...that was ep 15 O_o .. this is ep 16 :heh:
It is said in 2ch that Nanaly will get her sight back in the coming episodes.
May she be the third geass user...lol
AWESOME!!! I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO THIS!!
Its time for Nanaly strike back~.
-KarumA-
2007-02-01, 08:16
It is said in 2ch that Nanaly will get her sight back in the coming episodes.
May she be the third geass user...lol
that i find hard to believe :uhoh:
I actually look through 2ch just now... can't find any post talking about that..
which post did you get it from?
I also read about this episode will show CC as a messenger to Chinese Fed..
It was said in a previous episode (episode 7, I think?) that Nunally's blindness was only psychological (seeing your mother murdered before you can do that) and so it's not unreasonable that sometime in the future, she'll be able to see again.
bah It's too bad they made him such a simple minded fool. i'm sure the ep will be enteratining but surely he'll make so many mistakes it'll be painfull to look at him. You know words instead of actions. -_-
Renegade334
2007-02-01, 11:33
2chan thread in the spoiler tag. Try posting some pics (reload them on Imageshack, don't direct link) as my Internet connection is wobbly right now. It might help others. Also, until a summary (like on Random Curiosity or Memento's blogs) is out, don't forget the spoiler tags.
~Link removed~I'll erase the 2chan link when the first summary/screenshot page will be released, so as to not irk the mods and their 2chan link policy. A second thread (the usual joint Ghost in the Shell/Code Geass thread) link will be most likely added later on.
Housewife!Viletta moment with Ougi.
Short spotlight moment for Sayoko?
Short moment for Euphie and Cornie - seems like they're reminiscing Lelouch's past with them.
Sayoko saves Nanaly, while Suzaku grapples Mao. Lelouch gives him the coup de grâce.
WTF? Lelouch Geasses himself in this episode using Mao's glasses? Wow, I didn't expect that spoiler to take place so soon...
Mao seems to be the one Lelouch gives death to - through Geass. I dunno how exactly, though - how does the apparent self-Geassing fit in this. Maybe he tried to increase his power through self-suggestion? (Mmmmh...that reminds me of Rurouni Kenshin...with that guy using hypnosis)Laksharta makes her appearance.
Lelouch/Zero seems flabbergasted/appalled/shaken.
New mech up and about.
Village Idiot
2007-02-01, 11:50
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/809/117034844896618b0xy6gr6.th.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=117034844896618b0xy6gr6.jpg)
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9211/1170347909616897coq8fr8.th.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1170347909616897coq8fr8.jpg)
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4259/11703485432647eedhg7yw5.th.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11703485432647eedhg7yw5.jpg)
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/6628/1170348664269b019ba2nd8.th.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1170348664269b019ba2nd8.jpg)
Renegade334
2007-02-01, 11:57
Spoiler of doom...?
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/940/11703488392819575dq5.th.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/940/11703488392819575dq5.jpg)
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8421/11703491865307d54ya6.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8421/11703491865307d54ya6.jpg)2nd 2chan thread (joint Code Geass/Ghost in the Shell topic):
~Link removed~
Village Idiot
2007-02-01, 12:05
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6264/11703491865307d54um2.th.jpg (http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11703491865307d54um2.jpg)
awww CC!~
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4491/11703486653908f15du5.th.jpg (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11703486653908f15du5.jpg)
Village Idiot
2007-02-01, 12:10
Spoiler of doom...?
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/940/11703488392819575dq5.th.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/940/11703488392819575dq5.jpg)
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8421/11703491865307d54ya6.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8421/11703491865307d54ya6.jpg)
Its most likely a Knightmare designed for Toudou, notice the katana its carrying?
evil|plushie
2007-02-01, 12:13
So sayoko the ninja finally shows up...
Milly looks dressed up... gah tell us who she's going to meet XD
rest of the ep looks pretty much like what I expected but who knows. Good to see another flashback.
Milly looks dressed up... gah tell us who she's going to meet XD
It more and more obvious who it's gonna be :D
SoldierOfDarkness
2007-02-01, 13:07
It more and more obvious who it's gonna be :D
If that's the case then it can't be that bad for Milly:p She always seems to be the controlling one in most of her relationships(Not romantic of course but who knows?). They'll most defintely balance each other out.
But wow, just ran through the pics, seeing Cornelia chat, laugh, and smile like that is really something you don't expect her to do. It's like she throws on a different personality when she's out on the battlefield or in the political field.
guiltygearxt
2007-02-01, 13:17
about Lelouch self- geassing
I believe Lelouch geassed himself so 1. he will do something he normally cant do. 2. since geass only works once on each person, he will have resistance against Mao's geass
Deathkillz
2007-02-01, 13:45
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/809/117034844896618b0xy6gr6.th.jpg (http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=117034844896618b0xy6gr6.jpg)
look at that and it screams WTF! :heh: but really he could be saying to himself...
kill mao at all costs for messing with my sister T_T
Noo.. its happened, my Nunnally. ;_____;
Anyway: Is anyone able to understand whats happening in the scene with Cornelia? Its pretty hard to work it out with just those two screenshots.
You'll hear a lot more from me once i've seen the episode. :3
DarkWarrior
2007-02-01, 14:05
Well, that was odd.
Lelouch used Geass to make Mao shut up.. and then C.C. finished him off. And Suzaku seems to be one that killed his father, from what Mao said.
And Milly's marriage meeting with Lloyd was definitely amusing.
awww CC!~
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4491/11703486653908f15du5.th.jpg (http://img166.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11703486653908f15du5.jpg)
OMG PETS ME! :squeezeeeeee:
so is there any more boobies in this eps? :D
Omniscient
2007-02-01, 14:30
Episode 16 Screencaps and Summary (http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2007/02/01/code-geass-16/)
Well that was unexpected, and I don't mean Mao's return, I mean Milly marriage interview with Lloyd. Suzaku also got to really show off his stuff this week doing some very impressive stuff.so is there any more boobies in this eps? :D
No, but there was a Pizza Hut box.
Well, that was odd.
Lelouch used Geass to make Mao shut up.. and then C.C. finished him off. And Suzaku seems to be one that killed his father, from what Mao said.
And Milly's marriage meeting with Lloyd was definitely amusing.
O_O Thats... Thats...
MUST HAVE RAW NOW O_O THATS JUST AWESOME!!! Oh man I'd love that pair.
Cornelia and Euphie scene, best moment is Code Geass history. Gawd i can't wait to see just what BGM they'll have playing at this scene.
I almost didn't recognize CC in her disguise :heh: Oh! and I can't believe Mao lives after that barrage of bullets. I guess you can't kill a psycho that quick no? Lol! looking at the scene when Lelouch use the geass on himself, it almost looked like a sharingan IMO :)
Well, that was odd.
Lelouch used Geass to make Mao shut up.. and then C.C. finished him off. And Suzaku seems to be one that killed his father, from what Mao said.
And Milly's marriage meeting with Lloyd was definitely amusing.
after Suzaku saying "it was the only way" when CC stuck him in his own head and the mention of the prime minister's suicide by todou in 15 you can kinda see it coming.
well, glad they got that out of the way while having the team up episode. have to give credit to the writers for making noodle jesus 50-60% more interesting.
Meh. Overall a decent episode, but the Super-Suzaku moments made me roll my eyes. I just want this arc to be over. So much.
Oh my...Just how the whole situation changed when Mao mentioned the matter about Suzaku and his father was incredible. I've always liked Suzaku's style of thought, though with this information - it changes the way one once would look at the White Knight.
Seriously, Suzaku is a newtype or a coordinator - if not, we'll need some explaining as to why he was running at super sonic speed. As for the Cornelia/Euhpie scene, i loved it to pieces. Its about time we get to see the true way they act. Before hand, we've only see a few flashback images to when they were children, though it brings a smile to one's face - being able to see for ourselves how they act.
As for next episodeLooks like its the battle field yet again - i'm very interested in knowing what Lelouch's uber shocked face is all about.
Oh, and Villetta makes the perfect house-wife. <3
As for next episodeLooks like its the battle field yet again - i'm very interested in knowing what Lelouch's uber shocked face is all about.
How bout Euphies new bodyguard ?
aynway. so Suzaku really did kill his father. can't wait to see more about that.
and well since we've got mistic powere ala Geass in this show it's not that surprising aht Suzaku is a badass combatant. And as such great bodyguard material. I'm sure Lulu would agree:heh:
so Lyoid. right down to busniess. A busty , snappy blond girl for a wife? You da man. Too bad Suzaku wasn't around , anohte face like in the previous ep would be hilarious.
MIllay <3<3<3< and Viletta too <3<3<3<3
Meh. Overall a decent episode, but the Super-Suzaku moments made me roll my eyes. I just want this arc to be over. So much.
HOLD ME
It's getting hard to tell between filler and actual content, but I'm pretty sure if no mechs are used nothing important happened.
monstratboy
2007-02-01, 16:55
With regards to Suzaku and his shocking action when he was a kid.....
...does this mean he's kind of like Lelouch's number one idol. Cheese Lelouch look at how real men handle things, by breaking glass and charging head on! Your skulking and mind tricks barely has you peeping through the door, while Suzaku did what you've been taking years preparing for when he was only four feet high.
Totally called that Milly's omiai was with Lloyd.
So Suzaku really did kill his dad? Or was Mao just kinda twisting things. I always thought Suzaku was f*ed up in the head, but damn, he was only 10 years old at the time. If he really did kill him, wow, he must be like 10 times worse than anticipated.
It's getting hard to tell between filler and actual content, but I'm pretty sure if no mechs are used nothing important happened.
What?
For the past three episodes - there has been solid content surrounding two Geass users. That my friend is story, not filler. & seeing as though we're on the topic, there has not been a filler yet, and i can't see one happening anytime soon.
What?
For the past three episodes - there has been solid content surrounding two Geass users. That my friend is story, not filler. & seeing as though we're on the topic, there has not been a filler yet, and i can't see one happening anytime soon.
Except one of those people is dead now so I guess 3 episodes have been wasted. Basically, this show started off as a battle between Lulu and Britannia, and now we're getting random episodes that don't further that plot line. I don't object to plot twists, I just wish they'd get back to the main story. There doesn't need to be another 20 minutes used up on a lame character so we can find out what Milly's favorite color is.
Edit: Also, no filler? Did you watch the episode where they chased after a cat? Now I like silly stuff too, but the way this show started off really fast-paced and has recently (since the announcement of the next 2 seasons) slowed down is a bit frustrating. The fast pace was one of the great elements of the show, which is slowly being diminished.
chupacabra
2007-02-01, 17:05
Well i just finished re-watching again the episode and the part of euphemia and cornelia (misspelling?) was about how they used to play like that and they also remembered how they played with lelouch and nanaly (i know this isn't the real name) in the exact way or similar .
blablablub.
2007-02-01, 17:11
Is anyone able to understand whats happening in the scene with Cornelia? Its pretty hard to work it out with just those two screenshots.
From what i understand, it was something like Euphi saying "dosnt that remember you of Marrianes Villa?" Corny " yeah now that u say it".
Next is something about the rivals that Lulu and Clovis were.
Then Corny is saying that she must find and stop Zero, to free Area 11 cause they lost allready 3 siblings to this area, Clovis Lulu and Nannaly o.O.
That is alteast what i understand so take it with a lot of salt :D
From what i understand, it was something like Euphi saying "dosnt that remember you of Marrianes Villa?" Corny " yeah now that u say it".
Next is something about the rivals that Lulu and Clovis were.
Then Corny is saying that she must find and stop Zero, to free Area 11 cause they lost allready 3 siblings to this area, Clovis Lulu and Nannaly o.O.
That is alteast what i understand so take it with a lot of salt :D
Heh, i watched the episode just after i posted that - thanks anyway. :3
Renegade334
2007-02-01, 17:19
Except one of those people is dead now so I guess 3 episodes have been wasted. Basically, this show started off as a battle between Lulu and Britannia, and now we're getting random episodes that don't further that plot line. I don't object to plot twists, I just wish they'd get back to the main story. There doesn't need to be another 20 minutes used up on a lame character so we can find out what Milly's favorite color is.
I'm sorry but those three eps have not been wasted. There were a few developments to take count of.
- Lelouch starting to have doubts and vowing to shed more blood.
- Shirley departing from his life, making C.C.'s prediction come true: that the power of geass and everything it entails would make Lelouch lonelier.
- Doubt spreading among the BKs, especially Ougi.
- Viletta losing her memory and ending up with Ougi.
- Lelouch realizing that the power of geass is a double-edged blade for the user.
- Shedding light on C.C.'s earlier behavior towards Lelouch.
- Lelouch learning that Suzaku is Lancelot's pilot.
- The revelation that Suzaku murdered his father.
- Renewal of the covenant between Lelouch and C.C. possibly leading to their trusting each other a little more.
- Start of the announced three-part change in Lelouch's determination and ruthlessness.
- Lelouch being driven a little further up the wall by having Mao hit a little too close to home...again.
It's already quite a list, don't you think so? The Mao arc could have been extracted and set aside as a digression but I feel that in a way it was inevitable - it had elements I surmise couldn't either be helped or had to be thrown in for further clarification/clueing in.
attobyte
2007-02-01, 17:19
I don't think Mao is dead, I mean looking at the screenshots C.C.'s weapon looked like a veterinarian traquilizer gun instead of a real one, maybe she just knocked him out and intends to hide him somewhere safe for a while.
HOLD ME
It's getting hard to tell between filler and actual content, but I'm pretty sure if no mechs are used nothing important happened.
you're looking at this in the wrong way:
there's so much random character development and halarious/awesome scene's in this show, it doesn't matter if the overall story is advanced.
this show is really random pairings, lelouch pawning people, and the occasional chainsaw. and pizza hut of course.
though on a more serious note, the anime isn't really about the rebellion: its about Lelouch and Co. The driving force in this show is the character development, and this episode includes a revelation on Suzaku's past and a new connection between two minor characters. heck, there's even some set up for Nunally and a little development for CC at the end. sounds like a good story advancement to me. ^_^
I see where you're coming from, and I only criticize because I do enjoy this show and think it has some great potential. Like I said, I worry that the pacing of the show has slowed down greatly since the announcement of 2 more seasons.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, try watching episode 1-4 again as a comparison to what kind of steps forward the plot is making.
If British royality isn't dying, something is going wrong with Lelouch.
I see where you're coming from, and I only criticize because I do enjoy this show and think it has some great potential. Like I said, I worry that the pacing of the show has slowed down greatly since the announcement of 2 more seasons.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, try watching episode 1-4 again as a comparison to what kind of steps forward to plot is making.
If British royality isn't dying, something is going wrong with Lelouch.
yeah. I guess its really just a personal question of which plot thread is deemed most important...to each his own.
well, on the bright side, I can't imagine Cornelia surviving much longer, as Lu seems to be gearing up the knights for a big strike (if the preview is any indication), and they showed Cornelia being somewhat human for a change in the scene with Euphemia. feels like a classic "lets give some likability to this character before we off them" set up
yeah. I guess its really just a personal question of which plot thread is deemed most important...to each his own.
well, on the bright side, I can't imagine Cornelia surviving much longer, as Lu seems to be gearing up the knights for a big strike (if the preview is any indication), and they showed Cornelia being somewhat human for a change in the scene with Euphemia. feels like a classic "lets give some likability to this character before we off them" set up
And on the other hand, the last time one of Lulu's plans worked out against anybody but Mao was episode 2. :p
Deathkillz
2007-02-01, 17:37
I don't think Mao is dead, I mean looking at the screenshots C.C.'s weapon looked like a veterinarian traquilizer gun instead of a real one, maybe she just knocked him out and intends to hide him somewhere safe for a while.
denial is a cruel thing ;) but if he doesnt die this time ill be the one shooting him ~ (just to say that he did die if you take a look at his eye when he was shot)
oh boy this was one heck of an ep again O.o
mao returns with more mind twisting games for lulu...oh man did he lose hard! when he thought that nanali was blown to bits he had a mental breakdown O.o
next the mind raping came to suzaku...so he killed his own dad but he couldnt have helped it according to him...and the clock there makes some significance...it suggests that he hopes that time would either stop or just move backwards...
milley got owned! when Lloyd literally says "lets get married" milley was left to say WTF! :twitch: :heh:
and well viletta x ohgi vibes are now undeniable...im just waiting for orangii to come back to give hell :p
also suzaku and his kung fu skills...my god hes not human O.o
important scene between cornelia and yuffie...even tho it seemed like fun and games we get to see a sensitive side to cornelia...but another important face...she actually mourned about lulu and nanali's apparent death? O.o thats a new one...
rocking ep! :D
and they showed Cornelia being somewhat human for a change in the scene with Euphemia. feels like a classic "lets give some likability to this character before we off them" set up
Thats just silly. All along its been easy to tell that Cornelia loves her sister, so showing a scene like that just had to happen - same goes for the topic of which they were speaking of. I'm not just saying this because i'm one hell of a Cornelia fanboy, but i don't believe she'll be killed of anytime soon. The next big topic for the story shall be Euphie's Knight. :3
The main question now shall be just how she'll act once she finds out Zero's identity. Of course i don't think thats going to be anytime soon, though showing the sister scene in this episode points a lot towards it.
Concerning the seeming unrelatedness to plot of the Mao arc
in some old interviews, in spoiler thread, it was said that they don't seem relevant in the 1st season, but will be important to the 2nd season
otherwise i would have found the arc a bit trying to watch as well, especially with the upcoming episodes, although honestly the whole concept behind this episode still seems a waste. How many dead but not dead characters is that now.
Good episode!
Man, I knew that freak Mao was going to come back somehow! HOW THE HELL DID HE SURVIVE ALL THOSE SHOTS? And WTF is with Suzaku super human speed and strength that no one else seems to have? Was expecting C.C to show up suddenly to save the day or something, but did not expecther to appear like that a finish off Mao with her own hands this time....
Renegade334
2007-02-01, 17:53
I don't think Mao is dead, I mean looking at the screenshots C.C.'s weapon looked like a veterinarian traquilizer gun instead of a real one, maybe she just knocked him out and intends to hide him somewhere safe for a while.The gun actually looks like a WWII Japanese pistol-offshoot (the Japanese rifles/submachine guns certainly look antiquated compared to the more futuristic FAMAS F1-like Britannian bull-pup rifles) with the protruding bolt and firing pin group. Its queer looks are even more unusual with that silencer attached to the barrel (IMHO it looks like a High-Standard .22 [suppressed] spinoff) If you look back at ep12 when Kirihara's bodyguards aimed their handguns at Zero's Burai, they had roughly the same model and I highly doubt they'd use tranquilizer guns against someone they were ready to off at the slightest sign of a threat or if he didn't comply with their exigences.
- Lelouch learning that Suzaku is Lancelot's pilot.
He didn't.
As for the episode - Lloyd&Milly was the only great part, everything else was from average to OK. (although I didn't understand everything they were saying).
wow, Viletta housewife look :love:
- Lelouch learning that Suzaku is Lancelot's pilot.
What!? Did that happen this ep? I just watched it but I don't think that happened o_O
And yeah WTF was with Suzaku? Honestly I really was wondering if he had been watching DBZ or something XD
pagan poor
2007-02-01, 18:43
Heh, Cornelia using Euphemia as a squeeze doll and Euphie's reaction was funny.
Villeta the housewife cracked me up as well.
Millay x Lloyd... Both seem to be peeps who just likes to blurt crap out regardless of the consequences. I can imagine the wacky arguments they would have together. :D :eyespin:
What!? Did that happen this ep? I just watched it but I don't think that happened o_O
And yeah WTF was with Suzaku? Honestly I really was wondering if he had been watching DBZ or something XD
We have mind warping people and peope who can regenerate from every wound so why not supermen?:p
Deathkillz
2007-02-01, 19:01
could lulu actually have geassed suzaku to give him super human abilities or something? :p
wtf, if he can dodge bullets point blank, why exactly does he need a mech?
could lulu actually have geassed suzaku to give him super human abilities or something? :p
Nah - its probably more along the lines of SUPER SECRET TRAINING!
Waifu! Villeta. No better girl in the show!:bow:
My several points on this episodes.
- Susaku really kick ass this episode. He can really out class any human exist in term of his strength.
- How did Susaku have Sayoko's phone number? Also the way sayoko acts to this kind of 'emergency' somehow kinda suggest that she has some background. Sayoko need to run back from super market , open a coded lock door, take the elevator down to the hidden water way. Sayoko the NINJA!!
- CC went off, but come back pretty quick. Lulu should have command Mao to die (he command him to shut up and try to punch him -_-), but he didn't. If CC wan't there he would get away.
- CC sentence:
"I loved you, Mao. Mao, go ahead in wait for me, in the underworld."
hmm seems like she is thinking of dying here... NOOOOO~ don't do that sunrise
- CC killed Mao. This time he is dead. Really dead. kinda feel sorry for her killing her own non-related son. oh That is a gun, a real one. We saw geass in Mao's eye dies suggesting that he is dead.
- oh btw, Lulu geass himself to tell Susaku the plan and walk towards Mao thinking that he had tell Susaku nothing....
- Susaku killed his dad (by accident?) when trying to "persuade" him to stop the war. He thinks that if his dad is dead, the war would be over... poor boy.
- Loyld just ask Milly to marry him out the the blue....err I have a feeling that she won't say no for some reason. "Hayai! (Fast!)" That was her word
- hmmm other points? The Black Knight is growing rapidly. There are a lot of organization work going on and it seems like that reporter is doing a very good job. I doubt Ougi could have done those in a million years.
- We saw Kalen: weak version and Susaku feeding the cat together. should this even be a point?
- Ougi is a pervert. He loves recording video of a babe spending her time in the room alone.
- There is not enough CC in this episode... well.. comparing to other female other than nanaly, she is doing a bit better I guess -_-
-- Mao hits the mark on the spot. Not only he said Susaku kill his dad. He also know the reason why Susaku was acting reckless. Susaku really want to die. He said he wants to help people and stick his ass in dangerous situation because he want to risk his life and get killed. poor boy.. He will pop up being my favorite if he starts having split personality now.
Next episode~
- Todou is going to be executed, Black knight its time to help him!~
- He most likely going to get that samurai suit next episode. Discuss why on the spoiler trend.
- well Kalen is getting her new suit next episode!
- This show is getting really good!~
The spoiler above kinda spoil the whole episode.... so don't open if you don't want to get spoiled..
-
I seriously doubt Suzaku killed his father. His father was probably going to commit suicide and Suzaku tried to stop him but something happened...
nope, he really kill his father. The episode does make it really clear. He stab his father while he is walking away. However by accident or not its up to interpretation.
SoldierOfDarkness
2007-02-01, 19:52
nope, he really kill his father. The episode does make it really clear. He stab his father while he is walking away. However by accident or not its up to interpretation.
Now I haven't seen the episode but how can it be an accident if it was with a knife? Suzaku wasn't actually threatening his father with the knife was he? That's just crazy for such a young boy:uhoh:
wtf, if he can dodge bullets point blank, why exactly does he need a mech?
Because in the mech he can also dodge bullets with it point blank and has x' times many more firepower?
SoldierOfDarkness: :p
Naw, it's the tights isn't it? he must love them tights.
And yeah, Suzaku playing with the cat, my first reaction was get away from Kallen you traitor.
wtf, if he can dodge bullets point blank, why exactly does he need a mech?
forgetting gundam seed destiny already are we?
SoldierOfDarkness: :p
Naw, it's the tights isn't it? he must love them tights.
And yeah, Suzaku playing with the cat, my first reaction was get away from Kallen you traitor.
OugixVilletta, MillyxLloyd...and now maybe KallenxSuzaku.
I'm really wondering what they're going to hit us with next: CorneliaxLelouch? (on the other hand, after what she said this episode... 0_o)
Nightengale
2007-02-01, 20:48
forgetting gundam seed destiny already are we?
Suzaku to Athrun : Taking cover are for sissies, I run past them. :)
If I didn't know any better, I could've sworn that the whole evade-bullets-wall-running stint Suzaku pulled was a way of poking at Dendoh/Fukuda. In that series, one of the primary villians named Zero pulled the same wall-running-bullet dodging in the long corridor stint, and now Suzaku is doing it, because Zero in Code Geass can't.
Since Cornelia seems to have cared for Lulu and Nanaly, I'm starting to wonder if she could've had a hand in Mariannes death. I mean, If she loved Lulu and Nanaly, she wouldn't have a hand in the death of their mother would she?
great scens of the week
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/604/1170348163280178dpvjo3uuc0.jpghttp://img108.imageshack.us/img108/8762/11703485786331ca4vb3edkyw5.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/157/1170347780368f75fislwtkko2.jpg
and also,i`m a little surprised to see Lloyd with Milly.
I had thought he should be with the 17 year old forever neesan
Since Cornelia seems to have cared for Lulu and Nanaly, I'm starting to wonder if she could've had a hand in Mariannes death. I mean, If she loved Lulu and Nanaly, she wouldn't have a hand in the death of their mother would she?
Thats a good thought - still, Clovis was under the power of Geass at the time he mentioned this, so she must at least have been apart of it. Maybe she just thought it was whats needed at that time, without thinking how Lelouch would react.
Thinking about all this, makes me think of one image. :3
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8104/funwithsistersnx9.th.jpg (http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=funwithsistersnx9.jpg)
SoldierOfDarkness
2007-02-01, 21:06
Thats a good thought - still, Clovis was under the power of Geass at the time he mentioned this, so she must at least have been apart of it. Maybe she just thought it was whats needed at that time, without thinking how Lelouch would react.
Thinking about all this, makes me think of one image. :3
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8104/funwithsistersnx9.th.jpg (http://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=funwithsistersnx9.jpg)
It could've simply have been a guess on Clovis' part because simply he knew nothing. Lelouch asked Clovis if she had a hand in it but Clovis couldn't reply because he doesn't know.
So Cornelia may have been suspected or knew to some extent who was behind the assassination.
So Cornelia may have been suspected or knew to some extent who was behind the assassination.
Yeah - thats what i was aiming at. Its probably a 100% yes that she knows something about it, though she could have always had something to do with it - we should never erase that idea. Still, i've got my fingers crossed that she didn't.
strange strange strange.
Lelouch can geass himself????
Lelouch can geass Mao as well?????????????????
The-Ghost
2007-02-01, 23:11
strange strange strange.
Lelouch can geass himself????
Lelouch can geass Mao as well?????????????????
im unsure if Lulu geassed him self but yes he can geass Mao seeing as he did geass him
im unsure if LUL geassed him self but yes he can geass Mao seeing as he did geass him
Leouch geass'd himself to forget his plans that had Suzaku helping out at saving Nunnally.
strange strange strange.
Lelouch can geass himself????
Lelouch can geass Mao as well?????????????????
Why do you find this so strange?
Mao has been geassing Lelouch for the last two episodes, why did you think the opposite can't happen?
guiltygearxt
2007-02-01, 23:57
Leouch geass'd himself to forget his plans that had Suzaku helping out at saving Nunnally.
oh i c, he did it 2 prevent mao's mind reading
That should complete the Shirley/Mao arc.
The real meat and highlight of this arc isn't about going against Britania, but its about Lulouche and CC being resolute to their goal.
Lulouche loses one of his close friends, while CC loses a kid which she raise and they have to finish those by their own hand. (Lulu geass Shirley and CC shot Mao).
The arc also has a nice end up that connect well with the next arc. It set Lulu's mind focusing on getting Susaku to join him to matter what (as he said in the preview).
what CC said kinda concern me a bit...will she live at the end of the series!?
what CC said kinda concern me a bit...will she live at the end of the series!?
I somewhat doubt that is her wish, since she didn't sound particularly happy about Mao cutting her apart with a chainsaw. so at very least she'll be around till the end. then all bets are off.
though CC could certainly be self-hating. being an immortal usually causes some form of survior's guilt in the character that have it. seems to me to be more of a interesting little jab while we wait for more on CC's backstory than an actual death wish. at least for now.
Seen ep. 16
- The Black Knights' organization is getting bigger and bigger. I guess it would then merge completely with the Liberation Front soon (or it already has) and will be a force equal to Britanians.
- Mao's alive. Quite disappointing that he didn't die on that last episode. Still, seeing Lelouch in panic because of him is really interesting.
- Who would've thought that Milly's arrange marriage partner is none other than Lloyd himself. What's gonna happen to poor Cecil then?
- Suzaku doing some ninja stunts is really cool like the one when he rushed and kicked off the turret gun. That's one of my best scene I've seen in ep. 16
- Viletta and Ougi's moment, well, Ougi is pretty lucky. They almost act like a married couple now :)
- Part of Suzaku's past is now revealed.
- Lelouch shutting Mao off with his Geass. Guess Mao deserves that since he talk too much. CC delivering the final blow later on :) Bye bye Mao.
- Cornelia and Euphemia's sisterly love is really something no? You don't see Cornelia laughing like that except from Euphie. When they're talking about Lelouch's and Nanaly's mom, is Cornelia implying that she cares for the siblings too? Does this mean that she's not involve with the murder of the late empress then?
- I still don't get it why Lelouch use the geass to himself during that time when facing Mao. Can someone explain?
Lelouch instructed Suzaku exactly how to disable the bomb, and to come rushing in to the church when he heard a scream.
Lelouch then used the Geass to erase all memories of these orders, so Mao wouldn't read Lu's head and know the bomb was disabled nor that suzaku was waiting outside (since Mao was focused on Lelouch, he wouldn't bother listening in on Suzaku's head)
SoldierOfDarkness
2007-02-02, 01:20
Looks like I was right about Suzaku's past,
Despite losing, his father wanted to fight to the bitter end, which would obviously lead to the complete annihilation of Japan(reminds me of WWII where the Japanese literally fought to the death in the islands and would've done so had the Americans invaded the homeland itself), so Suzaku killed his father, believing it would end the war which it did. It seemed more like a passion though, Suzaku begged his father to stop, his dad swipes him away so Suzaku comes back and stabs him. Eitherway this explains fully why Suzaku has a death wish, and puts himself in front of others, he wants to die
But man, Suzaku's skills are uber, there's no way he can be human....that or the Britannian Empire genetically enhances their soldiers or he is the one :heh:
kira-sama
2007-02-02, 01:56
Looks like I was right about Suzaku's past,
Despite losing, his father wanted to fight to the bitter end, which would obviously lead to the complete annihilation of Japan(reminds me of WWII where the Japanese literally fought to the death in the islands and would've done so had the Americans invaded the homeland itself), so Suzaku killed his father, believing it would end the war which it did. It seemed more like a passion though, Suzaku begged his father to stop, his dad swipes him away so Suzaku comes back and stabs him. Eitherway this explains fully why Suzaku has a death wish, and puts himself in front of others, he wants to die
But man, Suzaku's skills are uber, there's no way he can be human....that or the Britannian Empire genetically enhances their soldiers or he is the one :heh:
so it's mean if suzaku didn't stop his father the war won't stop ???
at last that mao has died
so it's mean if suzaku didn't stop his father the war won't stop ???
we do not know what the daddy has in his mind. The episode only gives the flash on susaku's point of view seeing that the 'only' way to stop the war is to have his father dead...(he even tries to argue back to Mao.., and he also said so to Euphie earlier). Who knows, his father might have something up his sleeves to counter Britania's knightmare. (they have Sakuradite after all...equavilent to plutonium in the real world).
That whold thing is probably happen after susaku seeing those dead people and start crying and Nanaly pet him on his face.
I wonder if Kaguya knows about that though, would she forgives susaku if she does know?.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-02, 02:25
Looks like I was right about Suzaku's past,
Despite losing, his father wanted to fight to the bitter end, which would obviously lead to the complete annihilation of Japan(reminds me of WWII where the Japanese literally fought to the death in the islands and would've done so had the Americans invaded the homeland itself), so Suzaku killed his father, believing it would end the war which it did. It seemed more like a passion though, Suzaku begged his father to stop, his dad swipes him away so Suzaku comes back and stabs him. Eitherway this explains fully why Suzaku has a death wish, and puts himself in front of others, he wants to die
But man, Suzaku's skills are uber, there's no way he can be human....that or the Britannian Empire genetically enhances their soldiers or he is the one :heh:
But it's different here than in WWII. Back then, the only reason they would fight to the death, would be for pride. There would be consequences for losing the war, sure, but nothing unacceptable.
In the case of the Code Geass universe, they were about to be conquered and be treated like a number. The former-Japanese knew this because there are ten other countries before them who had fallen and subjected to such a fate.
I don't know if I have read your idea right, SolderOfDarkness...
Britannia have the right to conquer the entire planet. Since they have the most powerful army, every other nation should go on their knees and submit to their Britannian overlords right now, or they are labeled as bloodthirsty warmongers...
While Britannians are not responsible for anything because they wouldn't have need to kill anyone if the victims hadn't, you know, resisted enslavement?:eyespin: :twitch:
So all the 11s who were killed by Britannia in the invasion were really only committing suicide rather than fighting for freedom?:eyespin:
...Actually, I don't think that's what you mean, :D but I am sure that's what Suzaku believe. Which is why I really would hit him over the head with a blunt object if he was a 3D real person and, you know, not so superhuman.:D
EDIT:
Just to clarify: The reason why I believe the Code Geass Japan had the right to resist for as long as it can rather than surrender , even when they know they can't win, is simple.
Britannia is an aggressive scourge. It isn't the moral issue of not just go down on your knees and pray when someone is trying to kill you; there are other countries in the world to consider. The longer Japan holds out against Brittania, the longer time it would take before Britannia can conquer somewhere-else. Further, Japan had the world's greatest source of Sakuradite. The fall and colonisation of Japan would have dramatically improves Britannia's military capabilities and thus, once again, put other free nations in greater peril.
If you want to use the WWII example, I would suggest using France. Should the French have immediately surrendered to the Germans and assist them in the conquest of Britain? Surely that would mean less French people would have died...
suzaku is no saint we know that, but if nothing else I can respect his reasons for
doing what he did, a martyr'sfinal stand, counts for nothing if it accomplishes nothing,
he ended a war that would have seen japan destroyed had his father stood, his
ground.
I recently read a book about power , live to fight another day, that was not suzaku's
original intent but they have lived to fight another day, maybe on far better terms for
them , rather than going extinct.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-02, 04:10
suzaku is no saint we know that, but if nothing else I can respect his reasons for
doing what he did, a martyr'sfinal stand, counts for nothing if it accomplishes nothing,
he ended a war that would have seen japan destroyed had his father stood, his
ground.
I recently read a book about power , live to fight another day, that was not suzaku's
original intent but they have lived to fight another day, maybe on far better terms for
them , rather than going extinct.
As I said, there is actually a problem with that; had Japan surrendered without a fight, many more countries would have been conquered by now. Even to the present day, the actions of Zero is diverting Cornelia's military forces from invading any more people.
The argument that there would be less deaths if Japan had given up is moot. Japan was not Britannia's goal, but merely one of many stepping stones on the way to world domination. Thus, Japan's early surrender would not stop anything, but merely make Britannians more lethal elsewhere.
suzaku is no saint we know that, but if nothing else I can respect his reasons for
doing what he did, a martyr'sfinal stand, counts for nothing if it accomplishes nothing,
he ended a war that would have seen japan destroyed had his father stood, his
ground.
I recently read a book about power , live to fight another day, that was not suzaku's
original intent but they have lived to fight another day, maybe on far better terms for
them , rather than going extinct.
Not really.
Every war wears down a country. 1 more enemy to fight, 1 less frontline Britannia can hold.
If Japan was to resist with all their might, then Britania's advance to the rest of the world can be slowed down, and their death would not be in vain if other countries, such as the EU and Chinese Alliance can hold their ground against Britannia.
What Suzaku did, even though his action may have brought less japanese casualties, is nothing short of TREASON.
seraphon
2007-02-02, 05:01
weird that no one is shocked that a 8 year old (I m not sure about the age) brat can kill his own father. I mean when you are 8, you dont usually think about things like if I kill my father the war will stop....
I say that this only show that suzaku is indeed a psychopat, a murderer disguising himself as a hero of justice. I you are able to kill your father at such a young age, you can kill anyone and with no reason too.
The only reason that I think could justify killing your own parents is if the parents are uberviolent with the child to the point where the child health is in danger.
I hate suzaku and he deserves it ;)
weird that no one is shocked that a 8 year old (I m not sure about the age) brat can kill his own father. I mean when you are 8, you dont usually think about things like if I kill my father the war will stop....
I say that this only show that suzaku is indeed a psychopat, a murderer disguising himself as a hero of justice. I you are able to kill your father at such a young age, you can kill anyone and with no reason too.
The only reason that I think could justify killing your own parents is if the parents are uberviolent with the child to the point where the child health is in danger.
I hate suzaku and he deserves it ;)
Well, considering he's a teenager that can run faster than shots from an automatic sentry machine gun, and dodge bullets at point blank distance from Mao, I hate to imagine what kind of superhuman he was at 8 :heh:
I hate suzaku and he deserves it ;)
:rolleyes: No you hate him because you want to and all you do is look for more reason that you then interpret wiht your infailable logic and then brag about it.
attobyte
2007-02-02, 06:50
Well, with Mao's death a question arises.
About the mind reading geass, has it returned to C.C., so she can give it to another contractor, or is it gone for good ? (maybe, in order to lose her immortality, she needs to transfer all the geass within her and with the contractor's death the power is released).
evil|plushie
2007-02-02, 07:25
Finally, more of Suzakus past is explained. Hopefully they don't just stop here and continue to develop more of his character because it still needs lots of development.
And seriously, since when did a PM dying have so much influence over the war? Shouldn't the vice-PM have stepped in or something?
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-02, 07:37
Finally, more of Suzakus past is explained. Hopefully they don't just stop here and continue to develop more of his character because it still needs lots of development.
And seriously, since when did a PM dying have so much influence over the war? Shouldn't the vice-PM have stepped in or something?
Well, as I just proposed in the spoiler thread, perhaps Suzaku didn't think that far ahead.:heh:
How old was Suzaku at that time? Guess this is another example of the dangers of knowing only a little about something.
If Suzaku know nothing about the war, he wouldn't have killed his dad for it.
If Suzaku knows enough about how the Britannian invasion war worked, he would realise killing his dad is useless.
But unfortunately, Suzaku knew just enough of the facts to believe he needed to act, but not enough to know how to act.
Renegade334
2007-02-02, 07:38
And seriously, since when did a PM dying have so much influence over the war? Shouldn't the vice-PM have stepped in or something?Well, the two questions that comes to the fore then would be, "how bad was it by the time the PM died?" and "was there someone else left to stand up and take over?"
From what the Four Heavenly Swords (Toudou's subordinates) said, the JSDF was in a rout courtesy of Britannia's superior technology and advanced warfare. If the country went down due to Black Ops (assassination of key individuals, PsyOps, transmission jamming) and complete chaos had rulership over the nation, with scattered soldiers and members of the hierarchy hastily beating a retreat, it's possible that his death might have thrown even more confusion in this giant hoopla and nobody had the chance to speak up and urge the JSDF and gov. remnants to fight on.
...And perhaps the war was even over before the government could have elected someone. To me, it looks like Britannia blitzed through Japan and pretty much got control of it in a few days' span...giving little time to reorganize and counterattack.
evil|plushie
2007-02-02, 07:56
More imptly, how did no one figure out Suzaku did it? Or did they and thats the reason they cast him out of the family? Might be why he felt he had no choice but to join the brits.
It's kinda disturbing that Suzakus first impulse was to kill his dad though.
And dammit, there goes my Milly x Lelouch dreams.... ah well, there's always fanfiction.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-02, 08:19
More imptly, how did no one figure out Suzaku did it? Or did they and thats the reason they cast him out of the family? Might be why he felt he had no choice but to join the brits.
It's kinda disturbing that Suzakus first impulse was to kill his dad though.
And dammit, there goes my Milly x Lelouch dreams.... ah well, there's always fanfiction.
Well... That's what I don't get as well. It is obvious that Suzaku's actions back then was not public knowledge.
There is a good chance that everything was blamed on a Britannian plot, and that this is the scenario Sunrise is using. If your nation is at (or on the verge of) war with a dangerous and powerful nation, and your leader is assassinated, you wouldn't normally think the leader's son is responsible.
In fact, this might be why Suzaku is so guilt-ridden; he might have been the only one to know he killed his father!!! That's the worst guilt of all!
If true, this can explain a lot of things. Perhaps he is putting up a "hero of Justice" facade as an attempt to hide the shame. After all, is it not cowardice to let the Britannians take the blame for what he had done?:eyespin:
(The more I think about it, the more I believe Suzaku is carrying this secret alone. And something like that can really drive a man crazy. Or in the case of Suzaku, so impossibly sane that it met insanity coming the other way.)
More imptly, how did no one figure out Suzaku did it? Or did they and thats the reason they cast him out of the family? Might be why he felt he had no choice but to join the brits.
Well... That's what I don't get as well. It is obvious that Suzaku's actions back then was not public knowledge.
There is a good chance that everything was blamed on a Britannian plot, and that this is the scenario Sunrise is using. If your nation is at (or on the verge of) war with a dangerous and powerful nation, and your leader is assassinated, you wouldn't normally think the leader's son is responsible.
Well, that's not what the episode said.
Mao said "Aren't you glad it didn't become known? It's because all the adults around you lied about it."
As far as the public is concerned, they are told (by the adults protecting Suzaku) that the PM commited suicide.
It's not clear if the adults who lied to the public knew it was Suzaku that killed him, or if they thought it was by an unknown assassin.
But from the context, it seems to imply there were adults who knew what happened, but lied to protect Suzaku. (Or to simply keep this information from the public, for political sake)
(The more I think about it, the more I believe Suzaku is carrying this secret alone. And something like that can really drive a man crazy. Or in the case of Suzaku, so impossibly sane that it met insanity coming the other way.)
Just look at the state he was in after the mind Hax by C.C. a few episodes ago. He must have made himself forget that incident, 'cause ever since that - when his father has been mentioned, you can see one hell of a strange look of Suzaku's face. It was a great idea to have Mao bring it up (probably the only way it could have been done), and just out of nowhere as well, genius.
kira-sama
2007-02-02, 09:10
so if they (adult) keep the secret that suzaku kill his father
it means suzaku must work for them forever???
if suzaku in very young age know that kill his father the war will stop "i think he's genius but in logical young children cannot think further like that"
and i want to ask why mao know suzaku past???
... Mao's geass ability is to read people's mind >.>
Looks like I was right about Suzaku's past,
But man, Suzaku's skills are uber, there's no way he can be human....that or the Britannian Empire genetically enhances their soldiers or he is the one :heh:
druggy imo :heh:
and i want to ask why mao know suzaku past???
Welcome to Code Geass >.>
But from the context, it seems to imply there were adults who knew what happened, but lied to protect Suzaku. (Or to simply keep this information from the public, for political sake)
why does Sayoko suddenly pop up in my mind? What was her before she becomes Asford's maid?
SoldierOfDarkness
2007-02-02, 10:17
But it's different here than in WWII. Back then, the only reason they would fight to the death, would be for pride. There would be consequences for losing the war, sure, but nothing unacceptable.
In the case of the Code Geass universe, they were about to be conquered and be treated like a number. The former-Japanese knew this because there are ten other countries before them who had fallen and subjected to such a fate.
I don't know if I have read your idea right, SolderOfDarkness...
Britannia have the right to conquer the entire planet. Since they have the most powerful army, every other nation should go on their knees and submit to their Britannian overlords right now, or they are labeled as bloodthirsty warmongers...
While Britannians are not responsible for anything because they wouldn't have need to kill anyone if the victims hadn't, you know, resisted enslavement?:eyespin: :twitch:
So all the 11s who were killed by Britannia in the invasion were really only committing suicide rather than fighting for freedom?:eyespin:
...Actually, I don't think that's what you mean, :D but I am sure that's what Suzaku believe. Which is why I really would hit him over the head with a blunt object if he was a 3D real person and, you know, not so superhuman.:D
Yes actually I was pointing out from his POV.
But you expect a 9yr old to understand all of that? The 'big picture'? Can you also tell every women and child to fight and die to the last one so the other countries can survive?
EDIT:
Just to clarify: The reason why I believe the Code Geass Japan had the right to resist for as long as it can rather than surrender , even when they know they can't win, is simple.
Britannia is an aggressive scourge. It isn't the moral issue of not just go down on your knees and pray when someone is trying to kill you; there are other countries in the world to consider. The longer Japan holds out against Brittania, the longer time it would take before Britannia can conquer somewhere-else. Further, Japan had the world's greatest source of Sakuradite. The fall and colonisation of Japan would have dramatically improves Britannia's military capabilities and thus, once again, put other free nations in greater peril.
Well we know Japan wasn't any better than Britannia as Japan oppressed other countries through economic control and Kurgurri had a lot of things going in the back with the shadow support of Kirihia so Japan was defintely not a beacon of light and hope in the world. If I read episode 1 correctly, the conflict was created by Japan so Britannia simply retaliated.
So why would the japanese give a crap about hurting britannia as much as possible just to buy the Chinese a 'little' more time? Especially when the Britannians were literally steamrolling over them.
why does Sayoko suddenly pop up in my mind? What was her before she becomes Asford's maid?
She had pink hair, weild a death-scythe, and was a bodyguard of another wheelchaired girl,
that ran a public school. :rolleyes:
http://www.sunrise-inc.co.jp/my-hime/web/character/img_ico/ico_fumi.gif
I suspect that Suzaku's action was more about trying to protect Lulu and Nunnally. Remember they are suppose to be hostages, and that incident may happens right before the invasion. Suzaku may believe his father will give order to execute the hostages given his hardline stance.
blablablub.
2007-02-02, 12:27
I doubt that since Kurigi knew that they would'nt have invaded Japan if they cared about the safty of Nunnaly and Lulu, i mean there were hostages send by the invaders.
Probably to suggest something like safty, but its obviously that Britania or better to say the higher ups didnt care so much about them.
So what good would the killing of those two bring Kurugi?
And besides as said in ep 15 on Kurugis grave he commited suicide when they were about to install the fight to the bitter end strategy, so i guess the war was allready going on.
I suspect that Suzaku's action was more about trying to protect Lulu and Nunnally. Remember they are suppose to be hostages, and that incident may happens right before the invasion. Suzaku may believe his father will give order to execute the hostages given his hardline stance.
maybe. not like it really matters, since regardless of whether he wanted to protect Lelouch+Nanally, or just the Japanese as a whole, or both, the outcome was the same, as was the emotional scaring.
SoldierOfDarkness
2007-02-02, 13:34
maybe. not like it really matters, since regardless of whether he wanted to protect Lelouch+Nanally, or just the Japanese as a whole, or both, the outcome was the same, as was the emotional scaring.
I think he just wanted to stop the killing. *Points at episode 1* If the fighting stops, the killing stops.
Defintely the reason for why he's a soldier, what better way to die than on the battlefield? In his mind I believe he shouldn't even go anywhere near joining the resistance forces and why he's willing to just use himself as a shield for others *episode 1 where the capsule opens and Suzaku rams his mask into Lelouch's mouth in order to protect him* He just won't hesistate which is why people are surprised. It may even be a subconscious thought.
so if they (adult) keep the secret that suzaku kill his father
it means suzaku must work for them forever???
if suzaku in very young age know that kill his father the war will stop "i think he's genius but in logical young children cannot think further like that"
Now that I think about it, didn't the JLF stated that the public knew nothing of Suzaku until after the war?
Now that I think about it, didn't the JLF stated that the public knew nothing of Suzaku until after the war?
Yes, I had always wondered about that bit too. Called him a posthumous child. How exactly does a prime minister hide the fact that he has children?
But about Mao reading father-killer from Suzaku, I don't really think that Mao went through the trouble of going deep into Suzaku's mind, considering the situation, so that means the thoughts were probably pretty near the surface (He had to be at least 10 years old btw, war ended 7 years ago). My god, does he sit there and dwell on that every single moment? Do we have any clues yet as to how long he has been in the army? I'm curious as to if he ran away almost immediately after, or if it took him awhile to "break" and form his new britannian-justice-dog identity, or if the Kururugi household held him there.
Like the aftermath of ep 11, I too rather dislike the quick recovery he makes from being mind-raped. But I guess that's how he deals with it.
Cornelia talking about cleaning up Area 11 for the 3 lost siblings kind of seems flawed to me. Lelouch and Nunnally would have been fine, if Britannia didn't invade.
JarOfMayo
2007-02-02, 16:25
...
And seriously, since when did a PM dying have so much influence over the war? Shouldn't the vice-PM have stepped in or something?
No such thing as a Vice-PM. :heh: The elected "Diet" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_of_Japan) choses (by vote) from its membership the PM, who then appoints his cabinet (etc). If a PM dies or becomes disabled (like the one who had a stroke and couldn't continue to serve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keizo_Obuchi)in the late 90s) a new one is chosen.
About the covering up and such. It is very possible that people close to Kurugi did not always share his enthusiam for guerilla war and among themselves chose to cover the incident up as... it would be a strange shock for the resistance and people for the defiant PM to be killed by his own son. Without the guidance of the PM perhaps those close politicians and leaders thought it wouldn't be possible to maintain a resistance especially considering how the PM died. In either case "by suicide" or "by his own son" makes a strange/uncomfortable backdrop to start/continue a guerilla war.
In old jidai-ga series/Dramas often times the death of the leader, the lord in the castle, elder, etc... usually meant the end of hostilies...
With their castle burning around them the lord is given his death or a choice to take his own life. Perhaps to some of the leaders of the resistance the "suicide" of Kurugi meant the same thing: That they were only in the burning castle, unable to stop the inevitable.
Cornelia talking about cleaning up Area 11 for the 3 lost siblings kind of seems flawed to me. Lelouch and Nunnally would have been fine, if Britannia didn't invade.
Yeah but who knows really what those kids are told, Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Lulu's father lied and said that Japan killed them as a pretext to invade.
seraphon
2007-02-02, 16:37
:rolleyes: No you hate him because you want to and all you do is look for more reason that you then interpret wiht your infailable logic and then brag about it.
quite the weird post......
I said that I hate him and that he deserved it. So of course I hate him because I want to..... man....... you love suzaku too much, and try to stop using such heavy and stupid irony in your post because you are doing nothing by doing so.
I m open to discussions and debate but try saying something else than "you are wrong (and stupid?)"
SoldierOfDarkness
2007-02-02, 16:48
Like the aftermath of ep 11, I too rather dislike the quick recovery he makes from being mind-raped. But I guess that's how he deals with it.
Cornelia talking about cleaning up Area 11 for the 3 lost siblings kind of seems flawed to me. Lelouch and Nunnally would have been fine, if Britannia didn't invade.
If that's the case Lelouch and Nunnally would've been fine in the first place had Marianne not been assassinated.
Plus, what difference would it have made anyways? Euphie, Cornelia and Clovis probably vouched their concerns to "dad" about Lelouch and Nunnally but in the end would he have cared anyways? I mean he literally kicked his own son out the door.
Yeah but who knows really what those kids are told, Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Lulu's father lied and said that Japan killed them as a pretext to invade.
No it wasn't actually.
Clovis, "I'm so happy Lelouch, I thought you had died during the invasion of Japan"
I said that I hate him and that he deserved it. So of course I hate him because I want to..... man....... you love suzaku too much, and try to stop using such heavy and stupid irony in your post because you are doing nothing by doing so.
Actually I don't ever recall Suzaku proclaiming himself to be the hero of justice. That's Lelouch who uses it to gain support. Suzaku just....I don't know what the hell he wants....he's aware of the hardship situation around him and he hates it as much as lelouch....I think that scene where he's walking through that field snapped something in him and that he simply can't stand watching people like that die (I mean in that context, not in a combat situation).
Solider: the flaw i meant was Cornelia seemed to imply that the Elevens were at fault for their deaths; cleaning up the area does nothing for Lelouch and Nunnally really.
No it wasn't actually.
Clovis, "I'm so happy Lelouch, I thought you had died during the invasion of Japan"
Let's not put complete faith in Clovis's words, it could simply have been what he was told. It seems there was little concern about Lelouch and Nunnally while they lived in Japan as hostages. (They lived in a shed for example) I doubt the other royals knew much except what was told to them.
SoldierOfDarkness
2007-02-02, 17:19
It appears more like she's relating to the area itself and not just the people. She's talking about it as a whole. Like as in unfinished business if you know what I mean or something, difficult to say it completely.
Let's not put complete faith in Clovis's words, it could simply have been what he was told.
........
I wouldn't be surprised if Lulu's father lied and said that Japan killed them as a pretext to invade.
The argument is that their deaths spured the invasion when in fact it did not as the kids thought they died during the invasion. Unless the whole point of the invasion was to "save lelouch and nunnally" which is just bizarre.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-02, 17:25
...there is no proof that the war was because the Japanese killed the imperial prince and princess.
But did the Britannians need proof?
Lelouch and his sister were sent to Japan as hostages. Hostages under the pretense that Britannia wouldn't invade while some of their royals are under the custody of the Japanese government.
When Britannia invaded anyway, it's not to much of a stretch for the other royals to believe Lelouch and his sisters were executed by the Japanese as a consequence of breaking the truce. Just another way to show how cold-hearted the Emperor is, I guess.:heh:
So what I am saying, is that Britannia didn't invade because some of their royalty were killed by the Japanese. But instead because they invaded, it's assumed the royal hostages were killed as a matter of course.
(Hence Clovis and others assumed Lelouch was dead; they know invading Japan would likely get him killed.)
Owaranai Destiny
2007-02-03, 01:16
Interesting episode, this.
-Suzaku and Lelouch working together. If they aren't on opposing sides, I would very gladly say the two of them are just about enough to take out half an army of seventh or eighth generation Knightmares. (Okay, maybe not that much...It's just a figure of speech :heh: ) Of course, that would be just fodder for people comparing Code Geass references from Gundam Seed.
-The death of his father and who was responsible. It seems that Suzaku did indeed commit that terrible act of killing his own father. Adds a little more depth to his character (FINALLY) and we might be able to see how he's going to deal with this issue soon, especially since even Lelouch knows now.
I cannot say his reasons for doing so do not have their own rationale, but it is after all, a terrible crime in moral terms. Having Mao taunt him might actually be a good thing, right after C.C attempted to stop him by entering his mind, causing him to see his dead father again. It serves to give more depth to his character, and perhaps allow him to see the discrepancies of the method he is adopting to achieve his goals.
-Lelouch's predicament: You realise that he is just another human, despite all his capabilities. He CAN be beaten in his own game and he CAN get careless (Mao's exploitation of his weaknesses in Shirley and Nunally as well as the rumors that it's only Schneizel who could beat Lelouch fair and square in a chess match), much unlike Suzaku, who's abilities on combat would probably be second to none other than a God of War. :heh: So far the only match he has is Kallen, and it was in her Guren Nishiki. We haven't seen any of her hand to hand capabilities yet.
-Cornelia's other side: I half expected as much, but didn't think she would exhibit such behaviour especially when the series has so far been bent on showing her having more concern for her sister than other people and being brutal in her attacks on the opposers of the Britannian Empire. It has made me think that if she dies, Euphemia's character would be undergoing major changes, but let's hope it doesn't come to that so quickly, especially if one of them has been concerned about both Lelouch and Nunally as well as Clovis.
Deathkillz
2007-02-03, 02:25
-The death of his father and who was responsible. It seems that Suzaku did indeed commit that terrible act of killing his own father. Adds a little more depth to his character (FINALLY) and we might be able to see how he's going to deal with this issue soon, especially since even Lelouch knows now.
I cannot say his reasons for doing so do not have their own rationale, but it is after all, a terrible crime in moral terms. Having Mao taunt him might actually be a good thing, right after C.C attempted to stop him by entering his mind, causing him to see his dead father again. It serves to give more depth to his character, and perhaps allow him to see the discrepancies of the method he is adopting to achieve his goals.
maybe he wanted to change britannia from within inorder to repent for his sins ~ knowing that violence will only lead to more deaths ~ the way he killed his father seemed to be accidental...he didnt mean to do what he did...maybe just to teach him a lesson (but in a very stupid way) ~ suzaku could actually be surpressing his depressed feelings deep into his soul...so everytime it gets drawn out he is emotionally damaged ~ "no not this again >.<"
maybe he wanted to change britannia from within inorder to repent for his sins ~ knowing that violence will only lead to more deaths ~ the way he killed his father seemed to be accidental...he didnt mean to do what he did...maybe just to teach him a lesson (but in a very stupid way) ~ suzaku could actually be surpressing his depressed feelings deep into his soul...so everytime it gets drawn out he is emotionally damaged ~ "no not this again >.<"
Rushing at someone with knife in your hands, and embedding it deeply into his body for fatal wounds is not "accidental", no matter how you slice it.
Watch it again, and tell me "I didn't mean it, it was accident" o_O
That was just as "accidental" as Inejiro Asanuma assassination footage in 1960s.
BLAH!
I KNEW SUZAKU WAS BAaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAaaaaAAAAAaaaaaad!
Anyway, now Lelouche know his dirty little secret.
I won't be surprised if it is later revealed that Suzaka was one of the assasins of Lulu's mother since her picture also flashed back :D
Besides, one thing that bothers me is that HOW THE HECK did Mao survive. Bullets rained on him, and POOF! He's alive again. I'd accept this if it was like a couple of weeks or even a month later, but the time span seems a bit too short for me. If a week or so has passed, then people should already be fussing about the total memory loss of Shirley about Lelouche.
This episode was quite amusing (of the sorts). The twist was expected *_* (I see DN), but I think the most interesting thing about this episode was the two princesses conversation. X_x Their motive for stabilizing the region is so that their fallen siblings would forgive them. Redemption. Ah! ~_~
Next episode is rather exciting! New BAD ASS frame + Sexy lady + More developments!
Rushing at someone with knife in your hands, and embedding it deeply into his body for fatal wounds is not "accidental", no matter how you slice it.
Watch it again, and tell me "I didn't mean it, it was accident" o_O
That was just as "accidental" as Inejiro Asanuma assassination footage in 1960s.
No this is exactly like many accidents that happen in childhood. It's the same as if you've pushed someone off somewhere or nito something just because of a moment of anger. Epsecillay if you couldn't prove your point. Expect kids usualy don't witness a fileds of sluaghtered people and then learn that their father could well be reposible for much more scenes like that if he continued with his plan.
Kalimari
2007-02-03, 08:36
love this episode need more of CC she is gread my favorite anime girl
No this is exactly like many accidents that happen in childhood. It's the same as if you've pushed someone off somewhere or nito something just because of a moment of anger. Epsecillay if you couldn't prove your point. Expect kids usualy don't witness a fileds of sluaghtered people and then learn that their father could well be reposible for much more scenes like that if he continued with his plan.
Majek.... crime of passion is not the same as accidental death.
You can TRY to say that in court, but you're not gonna win.
Was it a murder as result of a moment of anger? yes.
Was it an accidental death? no.
There's a diffrence.
You're getting two totally diffrent terms confused.
evil|plushie
2007-02-03, 09:35
No this is exactly like many accidents that happen in childhood. It's the same as if you've pushed someone off somewhere or nito something just because of a moment of anger. Epsecillay if you couldn't prove your point. Expect kids usualy don't witness a fileds of sluaghtered people and then learn that their father could well be reposible for much more scenes like that if he continued with his plan.
Lol. So see many children stab their fathers in your country? I think there's a diff. between shoving someone in anger as a child AND rushing towards someone with a knife and sticking it in them. But hey, that's just my twisted morality speaking.
If I read episode 1 correctly, the conflict was created by Japan so Britannia simply retaliated.
How was the conflict created by Japan? I thought it was because Japan was discovered to be a major source of sakuradite so the Brits invaded it. Probably under the pretext that it had WMDs or something.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-03, 10:14
No this is exactly like many accidents that happen in childhood. It's the same as if you've pushed someone off somewhere or nito something just because of a moment of anger. Epsecillay if you couldn't prove your point. Expect kids usualy don't witness a fileds of sluaghtered people and then learn that their father could well be reposible for much more scenes like that if he continued with his plan.
Well, Suzaku said "I had no choice!".
Does that sound like an accident to you? He decided to kill his father, childish mentality or not. Suzaku himself certainly doesn't consider it an accident.
Oh, and if being responsible for a field of slaughtered people is worth a knifing in Suzaku's mind, why the hell is he working for Cornelia?
There is no justification for what Suzaku did, as it was a childish act performed with no idea of consequences or effect. But what made it despicable is how Suzaku still attempt to justify it anyway in the present day rather than admitting "Yeah, I messed up and killed my father for nothing."
He did what he once did as an uninformed child; this I could forgive.
But Suzaku is now old enough to join the army. He is now old enough to take lives of his own. For this older Suzaku to still trying to convince himself that his past immature actions to be rightous is just not good enough.
^still, it makes things interesting if Suzaku isn't fighting for Brittannia because he believes in "justice", but because he's so damaged he'll do anything to avoid taking responsibility for his mistakes.
How do i get myself stuck in these "discussions" and with them of all people. Always them. :/
You're right aohige, but to me in this case it' still more an accident because i don't see that malicious intent behind the stabbing that would make me label it as murder. i know the definition of murder but not ever killing is murder for me.
evil i said push into or off somewhere, like pushing someone into a window that breaks and cuts so badly that it results in death. But that doesn't matter as i'm not pushing the thought further so i won't question your twisted morality.
adn VDV I don't take that "I had no choice" as the "i had no choice but to kill him", not yet , until the whole event is seen. And NO you won't make me discuss Suzaku as he is now.
:/ Bah i'll just stick more or less to reading from now on. Have fun.
KoroshiyaX
2007-02-03, 17:05
This would likely be 2nd degree murder if this was taking place in real life. It was not pre-meditated, but it is STILL murder nevertheless. He killed him since he thought that would be the only way to end the conflict. Suzaku is a person that tends to jump the gun I guess.
This is become more interesting though. Based on this ep's revelations, we could conclude that it wasn't that Prime Minister Kururugi betrayed the Japanese and surrendered to Britannia, but it was Suzaku's actions in murdering his dad that lead to the fall of Japan :) Although one could argue they would have lost anyway...
I think the expression "Better to die on your feet than live on your knees" would fit here, with Suzaku representing the latter.
If his lawyer can prove that Susaku is forced to kill his father by the fact that he has no choice and is forced to kill his dad if he wants to save others people life, he won't be found guilty of 2nd degree murder.. (deadly force are permitted in this case after all..)
well of course I do not know how law in japan work though. They do not have jury there I think, they only do bench trail and some laws are different too.
Be that as it may, Suzaku's cowardice to face his actions, yet present himself in the guise of the moral champion is probably what I find the most repulsive about him, code geass has a habit of making me reconsider my conceptions of the characters. I can watch lelouch kill his brother, perform actions that rival the worst a villain like naraku cna pull of but when I measure him against the actions and personalities of the other characters I actually find myself feeling and thinking to myself , he's the best of a bad lot but at least he is honest.
Yes, Suzaku killed his father , giving a choice in a war that near apocalyptical, would i not walk that path, live on my knees and than on my feet, no hero I and I'm sure that is the path many on this board would choose if they had to make that choice. So in my own way, I can say what suzaku did was not right but it was for the best, japan survived albeit in a bad shape and beholden to britannia but most importantly they survived.
Unlike the Melians of ancient times who chose an honourable death( ie the kind of war his father chose, a fight to the finish ) and end to their civilization than surrendering and allying with the athenians who had offered them the option of surrender to devastation.Had they surrendered they would have taken what they could out of a bad deal , and then dumped the athenians when they later lost to sparta, had they chosen to bid their time to recover rebuild and gain in power.suzaku may not have realizaed it but he gave his people that chance albeit in the from of lelouch and the black knights, they have lived to fight another day on far better terms than any they had before that time, the only way he can atone for his actions even justify them somewhat is to aid lelouch defeat brittania, he killed his father to ensure japan survived albeit losing their sovereignty and liberty but if he can gain it back, albeit a small penance for his sins, itis something
evil|plushie
2007-02-03, 21:22
evil i said push into or off somewhere, like pushing someone into a window that breaks and cuts so badly that it results in death. But that doesn't matter as i'm not pushing the thought further so i won't question your twisted morality.
Hmm, well, I suppose it depends. If a child A pushed another child B and B fell over a cliff that A didn't notice was there, I suppose that could be manslaughter. But if A thought about making B fall off that cliff, then I'd suppose that'd be murder.
If his lawyer can prove that Susaku is forced to kill his father by the fact that he has no choice and is forced to kill his dad if he wants to save others people life, he won't be found guilty of 2nd degree murder.. (deadly force are permitted in this case after all..)
I don't think this will even cut it as a defense in a court of law. -_- I mean, first they would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a) there was no other choice and b)it was because lifes were directly in danger. Otherwise some random terrorist could kill the american president because a) he had no choice and b) other peoples life were indirectly in danger every single time the president gave the go ahead to invade someone.
the only way he can atone for his actions even justify them somewhat is to aid lelouch defeat brittania, he killed his father to ensure japan survived albeit losing their sovereignty and liberty but if he can gain it back, albeit a small penance for his sins, itis something
In all honesty, I want to see Suzaku continue on being a soldier for the brits. He's gone so far down his path that I feel any sudden turn about would be a let down and a waste of char. development for him. Same if Lelouch suddenly decided to embrace world peace.
Sirmackerel
2007-02-03, 22:15
We haven't seen any of her hand to hand capabilities yet.
Well, we did see Karen slice a bee into three pieces with a swipe of her hand...
Owaranai Destiny
2007-02-03, 22:44
We haven't seen any of her hand to hand capabilities yet.
Well, we did see Karen slice a bee into three pieces with a swipe of her hand...
A bee and a machine gun are two different things...:heh: But yeah, I got your point. Let me rephrase that: We haven't seen her in action against something potentially life threatening and dangerous.
Can't understand the RAWs yet, so I have to wait for the fansubs to pass a more convincing judgement of Suzaku's character on the killing of his father. It does tell me one thing, though: His father places national pride first; Suzaku places survival in the same place, so apparently it's suppose to justify why the hell he's letting the same Britannians who commit atrocities in Japan despite his efforts to end the first war with the least amount of resistance push and 'kick' him around like a dog.
And here I'm actually inclined to agree with whatever Mao was saying to Suzaku about his intentions for killing his father-Even though he loves twisting those thoughts a 'little'. :p
It does tell me one thing, though: His father places national pride first; Suzaku places survival in the same place, so apparently it's suppose to justify why the hell he's letting the same Britannians who commit atrocities in Japan despite his efforts to end the first war with the least amount of resistance push and 'kick' him around like a dog.
Keep in mind that Prime Minister Kururugi most likely knew very well how Britania treats its colonized people, unlike the 10 year old boy.
That's most likely one of the prime reason for not surrendering.
Owaranai Destiny
2007-02-04, 00:33
Keep in mind that Prime Minister Kururugi most likely knew very well how Britania treats its colonized people, unlike the 10 year old boy.
That's most likely one of the prime reason for not surrendering.
Can't believe I missed that out. :heh: Well, I never did blame Genbu for his stance on fighting, but in regards to comments made by one of Toudou's associates at their meeting place in episode 15, his death reflects really badly on his reputation even after his death. Kururugi Genbu isn't the real "traitor" in this case.
And if the reason for Suzaku killing his own father was indeed to stop the deaths of more people, he should learn to grow up sometime soon as an honorary Britannian and open his eyes a little bigger.
JediNight
2007-02-04, 03:47
My Japanese failed me on this episode, just too much difficult dialogue going on. What exactly happened at the very end of the episode? I missed what the maid was able to do down there, and how Suzaku was able to sneak up on him and bust through the window. Then Lulu talks about the Geass or something.
As much as I can make out is that Suzaku pulled more hax out of his ass and cut only the current wire, while not affected the movement of the line.
Onizuka-GTO
2007-02-04, 06:43
My Japanese failed me on this episode, just too much difficult dialogue going on. What exactly happened at the very end of the episode? I missed what the maid was able to do down there, and how Suzaku was able to sneak up on him and bust through the window. Then Lulu talks about the Geass or something.
As much as I can make out is that Suzaku pulled more hax out of his ass and cut only the current wire, while not affected the movement of the line.
while my Japanese ain't that polish either (a.k.a useless) i sorta got the idea what was going on, dunno how to explain it, but from what i got..
Lulu explained to suzuku which wire to cut, and then to run back to the church and burst in when he screamed out.
He knew he couldn't beat Mao since he will always know what move he will make, (read his mind) so before he went, he geass himself so that he would forget about the plan with Suzuku, to make it look like to Mao that he hasn't rescued Nunully.
Since suzuku is so Ninja, he can cut the right wires without touching/stopping the swing of the bomb, then he ran back, then Sayako, the maid who was called earlier came down to untie Nunully, as Suzuku runs back to the church.
As predicted by Lulu he loses to Mao, right now Mao is so fixated on Lulu, on his thoughts to SAVE nunully, (bloody sister complex!!)
he's tormenting him and doing all sorts of stuff, he loves it, so much he doesn't notice Suzuku and CC is standing outside.
so, he burst in, lulu realized what he's done when suzuku tells him, what he told him, then the smug come back, just to piss off mao
When mao tries to resist "arrest" (yeah suzuku made a citizen arrest, and calls for backup), he tells suzuku his deepest secrets, and it seems to me that he killed his Dad, probably telling him to stop resisting the invasion to "save the people" or something, so he ran at him with a knife...
yeah, great way to stop him.
anyway, his house was blown to bits during the air raids, so no one knows that he killed his dad.
so he has this issue, which makes him want to SAVE others, because he has an indirect suicide wish...
anyway, Lulu is stun, but geass Mao to mute, stopping him from driving Suzuku mental.
:rolleyes:
so mao kinda stumbles out/run away but CC is outside, talk about fast travel.
she greets him with a silenced pistol, she says along the lines of....
I love you, and i will join you on the other side.
then she blows his brains out!! hell yeah!
And yes, he REALLY is DEAD. You can tell because his geass power deserts his eyes, before he fell.
its finito, zilch, completed, shinde, destroyed, pimped down, ZERO
:D
ZeusIrae
2007-02-04, 08:04
The reaction of Lelouch when he realized that he "lost" was intresting.If one day he really loose Nunally,I wonder how he will react.
Lelouch is a bit too trusting with Diethard isn't he? Diethard is now almost a leader type in the Black Knight. Lelouch can just geass him to confirm his loyalty but haven't done that yet.
Lelouch is a bit too trusting with Diethard isn't he? Diethard is now almost a leader type in the Black Knight. Lelouch can just geass him to confirm his loyalty but haven't done that yet.
its not in Lelouch's nature. (episode 15, not being ruled by the geass and all that)
besides, if its an ongoing action, the geass may have a time limit, and then Lelouch would be screwed. save that girl making the marks, he has always left his orders to immediate actions or causing slight, permanent brain damage (forgetting stuff, which I'm assuming isn't an ongoing order)
Deathkillz
2007-02-04, 16:33
And yes, he REALLY is DEAD. You can tell because his geass power deserts his eyes, before he fell.
its finito, zilch, completed, shinde, destroyed, pimped down, ZERO
:D
thankgod someone put that straight into my head :rolleyes:
The reaction of Lelouch when he realized that he "lost" was intresting.If one day he really loose Nunally,I wonder how he will react.
well imagine yagami light...only ten times worse :heh: by that time it would be game over for the mad man who cant control his anger ~
If one day he really loose Nunally,I wonder how he will react.
Depending on what way he'd lose her it would be A) Take hardcore revenge, or B) Kill himself.
As i said, it all depends on the reason.
its not in Lelouch's nature. (episode 15, not being ruled by the geass and all that)
besides, if its an ongoing action, the geass may have a time limit
I was thinking more toward how Lelouch used his geass to get a honest answer from Kallen and Clovis.
SoldierOfDarkness
2007-02-04, 19:06
Keep in mind that Prime Minister Kururugi most likely knew very well how Britania treats its colonized people, unlike the 10 year old boy.
That's most likely one of the prime reason for not surrendering.
That's hardly the issue. :rolleyes:
When it comes to colonizing, it means your going to be assimilated into them which means the death of your culture, nationality, language, history, and most of all, pride. It doesn't matter how well they would treat you, the end result is the same, your assimilated.
And if the reason for Suzaku killing his own father was indeed to stop the deaths of more people, he should learn to grow up sometime soon as an honorary Britannian and open his eyes a little bigger.
Yeah that's why he told Euphie that he wants to try to make a difference:rolleyes: (So he is at least aware). As he and Lelouch pointed out, the world was pretty bad7 years ago. Both of them want to break the chain(or at least a world without war). Thus, both have concluded that if they win, the fighting and dying will stop at least. It also leads to the spoilers about how Euphie,
opens a path for Suzaku
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-04, 19:23
Yeah that's why he told Euphie that he wants to try to make a difference (So he is at least aware). As he and Lelouch pointed out, the world was a lot worse 7 years ago, much worse than it is now. Both of them want to break the chain(or at least a world without war). It also leads to the spoilers about how Euphie,
But Suzaku still believe he did the right thing by killing his father!
That's the only thing that annoys me. Kids will be kids, but that's no excuse when you are no longer a kid. I made plenty of stupid choices when I was eight years old, but you don't see me justifying them as being correct now.
evil|plushie
2007-02-04, 19:58
That's hardly the issue. :rolleyes:
When it comes to colonizing, it means your going to be assimilated into them which means the death of your culture, nationality, language, history, and most of all, pride. It doesn't matter how well they would treat you, the end result is the same, your assimilated.
?? In all honesty, if you knew you were going to be treated like crap once you're conquered, wouldn't you fight that much harder? Or view that as a reason to fight that much harder? So I don't see how that's not an issue.
But Suzaku still believe he did the right thing by killing his father!
You know, this strikes me as oddly hilarious, given that Lelouch thinks his goal will be achieved by what? Oh yes, killing his father.
That's the only thing that annoys me. Kids will be kids, but that's no excuse when you are no longer a kid. I made plenty of stupid choices when I was eight years old, but you don't see me justifying them as being correct now.
And what did you do that was so wrong when you were a child? Take a cookie from the cookie jar? Lie about finishing your homework to play video games? Suzaku's mental well-being hinges on being able to cope with what he did. You aren't going to break down if you admit you lied about something when you were eight. Suzaku may very well.
(Also, might I point out that it's kind of stupid to take what Suzaku says while in the middle of a mental breakdown as the absolute truth of what he thinks and feels about what happened? If he really thought he was justified then why get so upset about it?)
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-05, 17:28
You know, this strikes me as oddly hilarious, given that Lelouch thinks his goal will be achieved by what? Oh yes, killing his father.
Why is it hillarious?
Suzaku wanted to stop a war by killing someone who wasn't even responsible for the war; while Lelouch wants to kill his father because he hates his father for not saving his mum. What Lelouch wants to do makes perfect sense, while Suzaku was just being idiotic. Both action are immoral, but only one person out of the two actually try to take the moral high ground in the same time, who was Suzaku.
If he really thought he was justified then why get so upset about it?
Because as a result of his denial, Suzaku is killing his own people? He is supporting a tyrannical empire aiming for world conquest, because he doesn't want to be an adult. You might think this is acceptable, but I don't. Especially since I believe morals is something that shouldn't be taken lightly, rather than something Suzaku can wear like a cheap clown mask.
EDIT: Just to explain my views further, I can understand exactly why Suzaku is in denial. But understanding and acceptance are two different things. Thus, the fact Suzaku is in denial is unacceptable to me. Or to be precise, his means of denial; if Suzaku have his denial while being a local policeman, I would not have minded it much.
You know, this strikes me as oddly hilarious, given that Lelouch thinks his goal will be achieved by what? Oh yes, killing his father.
ah, but Lelouch doesn't think he'll stop a war by killing his father.
its all about intent and the specifics. Suzaku knifes a relative in the back thinking it'll stop bloodshed, Lelouch shoots a relative in the face and then begins a campaign of mass bloodshed so he can kill at least 3 more.
ah, but Lelouch doesn't think he'll stop a war by killing his father.
No, he just thinks that the world will magically become a place where people like his sister can frolic free and happy. (You know, nevermind that he's pretty much proving his father's "survival of the fittest" mentality right through his actions)
its all about intent and the specifics. Suzaku knifes a relative in the back thinking it'll stop bloodshed, Lelouch shoots a relative in the face and then begins a campaign of mass bloodshed so he can kill at least 3 more.
Oh yes, stopping bloodshed through bloodshed. That never creates problems! (::coughShirleycough:: )
while Lelouch wants to kill his father because he hates his father for not saving his mum. What Lelouch wants to do makes perfect sense, while Suzaku was just being idiotic.
What? No. Suzaku sees his father prolonging suffering and believes killing his father is the only way to get it to stop. (He's wrong, but that's not the point) Lelouch wants to kill his father for something he wasn't even responsible for. So if you blame Suzaku for killing his father for something he wasn't responsible for, you must realize that Lelouch is doing the exact same thing. The difference? Lelouch is old enough to know better.
Because as a result of his denial, Suzaku is killing his own people? He is supporting a tyrannical empire aiming for world conquest, because he doesn't want to be an adult. You might think this is acceptable, but I don't. Especially since I believe morals is something that shouldn't be taken lightly, rather than something Suzaku can wear like a cheap clown mask.
No, I'm sorry, you don't get to transform your argument into something completely different. You makde a comparison between yourself and Suzaku at a certain age. Now, if you want to get into the (tired) debate of how many people Suzaku has actually killed and his actions, that's fine. But it wasn't originally what you were talking about, and you know it.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-05, 17:52
No, he just thinks that the world will magically become a place where people like his sister can frolic free and happy. (You know, nevermind that he's pretty much proving his father's "survival of the fittest" mentality right through his actions)
Oh yes, stopping bloodshed through bloodshed. That never creates problems! (::coughShirleycough:: )
1. No, Suzaku just has to make sure he becomes so powerful that no one could harm his sister. It worked for Cornellia with Euphie. His sister and mother would not have had came to harm if the Emperor actually lifted an arm to help, hence the difference between him and his dad.
2. And Lelouch never claimed there wouldn't be problems; he would just solve them as they come up. Unlike traditional heroes, Lulu's antihero mentality means he isn't after world peace. He is after peace for those he loves, and hellfire for his enemies. It is quite a modest goal, and thus much more achievable.
(And Shirely is still alive is't she? And she is smiling peacefully too.)
^well, there is some sense that Lelouch does wish the change the world, not just bring happiness to those he loves and kill those he hates (though that certainly is a secondary goal).
but you're right that its not world peace. so far it really just seems to be a world that does not adhere to his father's philosphy. (where the weak are not seen as worthless compared with the strong) though again, it is indeed a modest goal (compared to some other Mecha protagonists) as all he has to do is kill his father and destroy his Empire.
of course, people can always suppose that Lelouch's goals are more idealistic; but really, after he revealed that the "allies of justice" thing was just a recruitment mechanism, its seems rather hard to see him as someone who honestly believes he's going to acheive "world peace".
Deathkillz
2007-02-05, 18:27
2. And Lelouch never claimed there wouldn't be problems; he would just solve them as they come up. Unlike traditional heroes, Lulu's antihero mentality means he isn't after world peace. He is after peace for those he loves, and hellfire for his enemies. It is quite a modest goal, and thus much more achievable.
this basically saids it all about lulu imo ~ as long as he can achieve his goal to provide nanali with a happy deserving life with no threat from dear daddy he will do anything...which i still think it would be interesting to see what happens to lulu when nanali is "taken" from him :heh:
Wandering_Youth
2007-02-05, 20:29
You know what they say:
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-05, 20:35
You know what they say:
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
For who? Suzaku or Lelouch?
Lelouch is taking the road to hell willingly and with both his eyes open. He is challenging the Devil for his throne, so that others (i.e. his loved ones) may be spared.:D
Suzaku, however... He is taking the road to hell, but I am not sure he has any genuine good intentions.:eyespin:
seraphon
2007-02-05, 20:37
I may be repeating myself but a kid who kill his father while the said kid wasnt mistreated by the father, is just plain wrong and crazy
evil|plushie
2007-02-05, 21:02
No, he just thinks that the world will magically become a place where people like his sister can frolic free and happy. (You know, nevermind that he's pretty much proving his father's "survival of the fittest" mentality right through his actions)
Oh yes, stopping bloodshed through bloodshed. That never creates problems! (::coughShirleycough:: )
Isn't that what Suzaku's doing? He also magically believes the world will become a better place for the 11s once he kills all of them that resist. Well, I suppose it might because people could become too scared to resist.
But in all honesty, both their approaches have problems. However, I'd put my money on Lelouch since he appears to be more self-aware and more savvy about such things in general. *hey, the prince training has to come in handy sometime*
What? No. Suzaku sees his father prolonging suffering and believes killing his father is the only way to get it to stop. (He's wrong, but that's not the point) Lelouch wants to kill his father for something he wasn't even responsible for. So if you blame Suzaku for killing his father for something he wasn't responsible for, you must realize that Lelouch is doing the exact same thing. The difference? Lelouch is old enough to know better.
Hm, I have to disagree with this. Lelouch's father was as much responsible for his mothers death as the assassins were. It's very likely that the emperor, being the most POWERFUL man in the empire, should have been able to stop an assassination plot that happened in his own palace, or at the very least bring the guilty to justice. But he didn't because he wanted to see if they *lelouch family* were weak or strong. He even told this to Lelouch, right before banishing him and his just crippled and BLIND sister to japan where they had to live in a storage shed. There's a hell lot of difference between the way they were treated by their parents, as well as their justification for killing/wanting to kill them.
And the real difference is that one still believes he's fighting for justice while the other is actually self-aware enough that justice won't help him and just wants to achieve his goal. Deplorable? Maybe, but I prefer self-aware characters.
No, I'm sorry, you don't get to transform your argument into something completely different. You makde a comparison between yourself and Suzaku at a certain age. Now, if you want to get into the (tired) debate of how many people Suzaku has actually killed and his actions, that's fine. But it wasn't originally what you were talking about, and you know it.
Uh, I believe VCV was replying to your post about why he was so upset about Suzaku justifying himself even at the age of 18? He wasn't changing his argument.
Oh yes, stopping bloodshed through bloodshed. That never creates problems!
The same could be said for Suzaku no? You know, the guy who carries around a really big gun.
It reminds me of Hiko Seijuro imparting wisdom to Kenshin. A sword is a tool made for killing. You can sugarcoat it all you want, but that is the truth. (Words to that effect, i don't recall the exact terms, someone want to enlighten us?) Same applies to a gun, and in this world a knightmare frame.
I'm all of the sudden feeling really sorry for Mao, even psychos shouldn't have to be subjected to the touch of deluded-daddy-killers.
My thoughts now wander to if Suzaku was really Genbu's son though. What good reason is there to cover up the fact that he murdered his father? There must be something more to Suzaku's existence to merit the perpeptuation of the lie. Basically what about him does the Kururugi household wish to protect. He's joined the enemy (basically betraying his father/family a 2nd time), and no notices commanding him to commit seppuku have arrived, so i'm assuming there is something to protect.
Hm, I have to disagree with this. Lelouch's father was as much responsible for his mothers death as the assassins were. It's very likely that the emperor, being the most POWERFUL man in the empire, should have been able to stop an assassination plot that happened in his own palace, or at the very least bring the guilty to justice. But he didn't because he wanted to see if they *lelouch family* were weak or strong. He even told this to Lelouch, right before banishing him and his just crippled and BLIND sister to japan where they had to live in a storage shed. There's a hell lot of difference between the way they were treated by their parents, as well as their justification for killing/wanting to kill them.
Britania is that kind of country. The strong lives and the weak disappear, it is that way for over 2000 years. (see DVD extra for more info). I don't think Lulu's father in any way do anything weird there. He is in no way responsible for Lulu's mom death because he didn't protect her. Protecting her is not his responsibility, not in a million years, at least in Britania's twisted way of thinking.
Lulu knows that; he knows that killing his father will not change a thing. Another new king will just pop up with the same twisted logic and the killing for the throne will start again in a few years. Thus his ultimate aim is to destroy "Britania" along with its twisted logic, not assasination of the king.
hmm the reason why he sent Lulu to Japan, so far we do not know. You might guess that he has no more use of Lulu and it is a way to dispose him while gaining political advantage with japan (and excuse to invade them). I actually think he might want Lulu to grow up strong enough to over threw him, thus all chaos Lulu is putting up rightnow is in his expectation. The fact that he most likely heard that Lulu is still alive from Clovis, and still havn't react kinda suggested this.
evil|plushie
2007-02-06, 06:10
[QUOTE=quina;823801]Britania is that kind of country. The strong lives and the weak disappear, it is that way for over 2000 years. (see DVD extra for more info). I don't think Lulu's father in any way do anything weird there. He is in no way responsible for Lulu's mom death because he didn't protect her. Protecting her is not his responsibility, not in a million years, at least in Britania's twisted way of thinking.
[quote]
And I assume you think that's correct? Or that should be? If everything should be according to Britainnias way of thinking, there wouldn't be a rebellion would there? Everybody would willingly embrace their new role as numbers and then get mistreated by true brits. Hell, if it was really true, Euphie would be dead by now since she's undoubtedly weak.
But thats the problem. Britainnias way of thinking isn't absolute, it probably doesn't go well with the numbers or the EU or the chinese federation. So why are you using Britainnias way of thinking to justify what the emperor did?
I think you're mistaking the fact that the Emperor THINKS is the only way of living VS everyone elses way of living. And put it this way, if the Emperor hadn't married her, she wouldn't have been assassinated. But he did, and then he didn't bother to protect her nor did he bother to find her killers.
antheonoileo
2007-02-06, 08:38
I know many guys (almost all of them from mangas/animes/novels/films) kills their own parent/relatives but I've never seen any weird idea like Suzaku's. The reasons for the murders are usually bad treatments (quite understandable) or that the parent is true evil that needs to be eliminated (quite heroic). In Lulu's case, it combined both.
But in Suzaku's ???? (I guess his brain was damaged by some reason).
Anyway, I've seen the Kamen Rider 555 (because KR Kabuto is good that I did this mistake >*<). There are 2 beings, somewhat similar to the coordinator and natural (or whatever I dun remember) in Gundam, but it seems to that director only human can live, so our heroes - all not human - fight their species to protect human. That sucks !!! Maybe Suzaku has such way of thinking: only Britainian can (win/be ruler/be police/set laws...). Or he thought Japan was too good at first then realizing the truth, he changed from this extreme to the other
To evil plushie and Nightengale in the next post: I don't compare human/Orphenochs with Britainian/No. but with coordinator/natural (most of the human/Or don't want to live with each other peacefully, but some of them, yes ). The reason I raise it here is the perception: Only human has the right to live (Smart Brain is evil, which doesn't mean all Or are. It is just a kind of struggling to exist. I seems to me that in the film, human is nothing better/kinder than the Or. If they fight the Or, it is understandable. But why those Or heroes themselves - maybe because they try to convince themselves that their soul are still human and that's all. And they don't only try to eliminate Smart Brain, they try to eliminate all the Or, especially in the final part concerning the King. Ah, I guess it is because we'r human :heh: ) which is somewhat refering me to Suzaku's
evil|plushie
2007-02-06, 08:41
Orphenochs? Totally different thing. The rebels wanted to co-exist with humans peacefully.
Nightengale
2007-02-06, 08:52
Big difference. Orphenochs/SMART BRAIN wants to turn the human populace into Orphenochs and create a world of Orphenochs. (( Paradise Lost is the perfect example. ))
Even if Britiannia takes over the world, it's not like Numbers will be any more than Numbers.
As for the Suzaku-lite of Faiz/555, you know, the Horse Orphenoch (( which is a better character by far ))...well, you know what happened to him. :P
On the topic of Kamen Rider...it is tokusatsu and we know (( well, those at the spoiler thread )) knows that Lelouch used to be a big tokusatsu fan. Clearly his larger-than-life justice-man-pretender alter-ego ZERO is based off something. The only thing he's lacking though is physical prowess and a henshin sequence.
evil|plushie
2007-02-06, 09:47
...this strangely fits. In a world controlled by an evil empire *Britainnia*, one man gains a special power to rebel against the empire. It is Kamen Rider Zero!
Britania is that kind of country. The strong lives and the weak disappear, it is that way for over 2000 years. (see DVD extra for more info). I don't think Lulu's father in any way do anything weird there. He is in no way responsible for Lulu's mom death because he didn't protect her. Protecting her is not his responsibility, not in a million years, at least in Britania's twisted way of thinking.
And I assume you think that's correct? Or that should be? If everything should be according to Britainnias way of thinking, there wouldn't be a rebellion would there? Everybody would willingly embrace their new role as numbers and then get mistreated by true brits. Hell, if it was really true, Euphie would be dead by now since she's undoubtedly weak.
But thats the problem. Britainnias way of thinking isn't absolute, it probably doesn't go well with the numbers or the EU or the chinese federation. So why are you using Britainnias way of thinking to justify what the emperor did?
I think you're mistaking the fact that the Emperor THINKS is the only way of living VS everyone elses way of living. And put it this way, if the Emperor hadn't married her, she wouldn't have been assassinated. But he did, and then he didn't bother to protect her nor did he bother to find her killers.
The question that I was trying to answer is that whether Emperor should be held responsible for his wives assasination. And ofcourse I am answering it in the context of the code geass world, so whats wrong with using the logic that have been used in the story to judge that. Britania's logic is twist, but most Britanian have no problem with it (there is no exception even in school, those Britanian students are looking down on the 11s, susaku when he first join is example of that).
Britanian's emperor is a bastard, there is no mistake in that, but judging if some one is at fault, or whether they should be held responsible for mistakes is always done in context. You are trying to judge a person in anime world which none of the law in our world apply, the society is different. Human is a product of how they are raise and taught. If the law said its ok to shoot for a piece of bread and everyone was raise thinking so. Can you blame those people for shooting over the bread? Or do you blame the system.
People hate the system, that's why they rebel.
Euphiamia have nothing to do with whether he should be held responsible or not. But The reason why she survive is because she happen to be a little doll of Cornalia. (Cornalia has been locking her up, we saw that in ep5)
But yes, ofcourse I can see why people have tendency to blame him for everything. The producer wants it to be that way, and I can see that. We are viewing the world of Code Geass through Lulouche's eye. Emperor is in every way responsible for his mom's death to him. He is the mastermind of everything. The big boss, The omega, The Char, The grand shocker, The demon Lord.
hmm the reason why he sent Lulu to Japan, so far we do not know. You might guess that he has no more use of Lulu and it is a way to dispose him while gaining political advantage with japan (and excuse to invade them). I actually think he might want Lulu to grow up strong enough to over threw him, thus all chaos Lulu is putting up rightnow is in his expectation. The fact that he most likely heard that Lulu is still alive from Clovis, and still havn't react kinda suggested this.
sending a prince to be hostage is a popular political move in the Warring States Period of China, Qin Shi Huang who is the 1st emperor of China was a hostage in the State of Zhao. I bet the writer of Code Geass takes the idea from here :D
evil|plushie
2007-02-06, 10:36
The question that I was trying to answer is that whether Emperor should be held responsible for his wives assasination. And ofcourse I am answering it in the context of the code geass world, so whats wrong with using the logic that have been used in the story to judge that. Britania's logic is twist, but most Britanian have no problem with it (there is no exception even in school, those Britanian students are looking down on the 11s, susaku when he first join is example of that).
Britanian's emperor is a bastard, there is no mistake in that, but judging if some one is at fault, or whether they should be held responsible for mistakes is always done in context. You are trying to judge a person in anime world which none of the law in our world apply, the society is different. Human is a product of how they are raise and taught. If the law said its ok to shoot for a piece of bread and everyone was raise thinking so. Can you blame those people for shooting over the bread? Or do you blame the system.
People hate the system, that's why they rebel.
Euphiamia have nothing to do with whether he should be held responsible or not. But The reason why she survive is because she happen to be a little doll of Cornalia. (Cornalia has been locking her up, we saw that in ep5)
But yes, ofcourse I can see why people have tendency to blame him for everything. The producer wants it to be that way, and I can see that. We are viewing the world of Code Geass through Lulouche's eye. Emperor is in every way responsible for his mom's death to him. He is the mastermind of everything. The big boss, The omega, The Char, The grand shocker, The demon Lord.
I disagree. This is more a matter of nature vs nurture. If like you said, the system was so all powerful, why does Euphemia exist? According to the system , she should be dead. But she isn't because Cornelia protects. But why does Cornelia protect her? Why doesn't Cornelia follow the system and allow Euphemia to die? It's because the personality of humans don't just come from their environment and because humans can choose to make decisions for themselves. The same way Lelouch chose not to just accept the death of his mother because she was weak, and follow the system.
And even if you want to make the argument that the emperor is just following the system and that it's perfectly natural to let your relatives/family die just cause they're weak in the Geass world, have you ever seen ANY britainnians do just that? Shirley was upset about losing her father. Milly follows her familys wishes, Cornelia protects her sister, Lelouch protects his sister. Etc. Even for the Code Geass world, the emperors morality seems much more twisted than his fellow brits. Even if he's not directly responsible for her death, he's at least responsible for negligence and indirectly leading to her death.
Blue_Mercy
2007-02-06, 12:58
From the way it looks this has leaked the morality discussion into the episode 16 topic.
As for comments concerning episode 16, it's only natural that C.C. delivers the final blow to the mess she created. While Suzaku is quite the hypocrite isn't he? All his speeches about justice after he killed his own father. People might have disliked Mao but he did force people to deal with the problems they try to hide.
I honestly don't why people are so surprised by this side of Cornelia. We were told she was like this around Euphemia. Now that Lelouch is able to set his eyes back on Cornelia, this scene might be getting us ready for a possible death.
I think this episode gave us a glimpse to another one of Lelouch's flaws that he needs to correct. After he thought he defeated Mao, he got careless with Nunnally. The same thing happened after he beat Clovis's troops, he got careless against Cornelia and got saved by C.C. After he cornered Cornelia at Narita he got arrogant, Suzaku showed up and he had to get saved by C.C. again. Now C.C. has taken care of Mao. He needs to learn to take a victory with class, which he has yet to do.
Deathkillz
2007-02-06, 16:48
As for comments concerning episode 16, it's only natural that C.C. delivers the final blow to the mess she created. While Suzaku is quite the hypocrite isn't he? All his speeches about justice after he killed his own father. People might have disliked Mao but he did force people to deal with the problems they try to hide.
well that one view...but another one would be to say that suzaku is actually repenting for his sins...after the wrong that he did he is trying to take the correct path in which he believes while hiding his darkest secrets ~ which was revealed by mao causing him to go into another mind trauma...methinks that he would have to face his ultimate fear sooner or later ~
seraphon
2007-02-06, 17:55
preaching justice afther killing one's own father without admiting it to the world is called hypocrisy.
If he really wanted to repent for his sins he should have at least said the truth to save his fathers honour (coz everyone thougth he did sepuku).
Deathkillz
2007-02-06, 18:39
^ what can you expect from a mentally unstable guy? hes trying his hardest to forget about what had happened but everytime the topic keeps getting dug up from the grave of his heart ~ hes trying to do the right thing in his eyes as a way to apologize to his father ~ its ironic that he who is preaching justice was the one who killed his father but i wouldnt call it hypocrisy for what he is doing at the present time ~
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-06, 19:00
^ what can you expect from a mentally unstable guy? hes trying his hardest to forget about what had happened but everytime the topic keeps getting dug up from the grave of his heart ~ hes trying to do the right thing in his eyes as a way to apologize to his father ~ its ironic that he who is preaching justice was the one who killed his father but i wouldnt call it hypocrisy for what he is doing at the present time ~
No, I wouldn't call it hypocrasy... But only because "denial" was a more fitting word. And as I kept saying, there are harmless ways of being in denial, and then there are the harmful ways of being in denial. The entire Japan shouldn't have to pay the price for one man's inability to face his own demons, but it appears that's exactly what Suzaku has in mind.
Anh_Minh
2007-02-07, 04:33
The question that I was trying to answer is that whether Emperor should be held responsible for his wives assasination. And ofcourse I am answering it in the context of the code geass world, so whats wrong with using the logic that have been used in the story to judge that. Britania's logic is twist, but most Britanian have no problem with it (there is no exception even in school, those Britanian students are looking down on the 11s, susaku when he first join is example of that).
Well, that depends of the circumstances. When they're in a position of force, they sure have no problem embracing the might makes right mentality. When it's their turn to have a gun pointed in their face? All of a sudden, they become peace and love pacifists.
Further, when Clovis was killed, they didn't go "Oh, well, tough luck for him, he was weak", but rather "Argh! How dare you kill him?"
Britanian's emperor is a bastard, there is no mistake in that, but judging if some one is at fault, or whether they should be held responsible for mistakes is always done in context. You are trying to judge a person in anime world which none of the law in our world apply, the society is different. Human is a product of how they are raise and taught. If the law said its ok to shoot for a piece of bread and everyone was raise thinking so. Can you blame those people for shooting over the bread? Or do you blame the system.
There are several ways of seeing things:
- "Screw what's right, I will have revenge!"
- "Britania is wrong and evil. I will get rid of it."
- "OK, Britanian Emperor, we play by your rules. All I need to have the moral right to kill you is the ability to kill you. Which I will prove by, well, killing you."
Now, of course, you could argue that one should be the better man, show the moral way of doing things... But screw that. Morals that protect the murderer but not the innocent are useless.
DAMN!!! My hatred for Suzaku just went up 2 bars and his pussy meter dropped 10 fold surprisingly. I have always thought he was always a goodie goodie care bear but god damn, to find out he 's a cold blooded killa was a shocker haha. To kill your own fathers, thats pretty damn heartless and cold blooded. I still friken hate him and think that he just needs to die lol.
raidragon
2007-02-07, 05:27
ah, what a nice eps^^, Lelouch plan is so nice^^
bond4154
2007-02-07, 06:47
DAMN!!! My hatred for Suzaku just went up 2 bars and his pussy meter dropped 10 fold surprisingly. I have always thought he was always a goodie goodie care bear but god damn, to find out he 's a cold blooded killa was a shocker haha. To kill your own fathers, thats pretty damn heartless and cold blooded. I still friken hate him and think that he just needs to die lol.
Hardly. You are talk about the son of a man who's supposed to be running the country. An eleven-year-old kid with a naive mind and little experience in politics would want to save his country, no matter what. He thought that any sort of resistance against Britannia was useless. I think stabbing his father was an act of desperation or complete frustration. Suzaku could not bear to watch his country die, and the immediate solution for an eleven-year-old mind untrained in politics is to avoid confrontation. And, in an impulsive drive, he killed his father. Screwed up, but, for an eleven-year-old, completely understandable. I've adopted new horizons for Suzaku now, and I hope he can come to grips with that. This is becoming quite interesting, and clearing up a lot of my questions.
antheonoileo
2007-02-07, 08:26
To evil plushie and Nightengale: I don't compare human/Orphenochs with Britainian/No. but with coordinator/natural (most of the human/Or don't want to live with each other peacefully, but some of them, yes ). The reason I raise it here is the perception: Only human has the right to live (Smart Brain is evil, which doesn't mean all Or are. It is just a kind of struggling to exist. I seems to me that in the film, human is nothing better/kinder than the Or (those bully and such) and also try to eliminate Or whenever they know about the Or's existence. The problem is: If they fight the Or, it is understandable - which is the case of other Kamen series. But why those Or heroes ? - maybe because they try to convince themselves that their soul are still human and that's all. And they don't only try to eliminate Smart Brain, they try to eliminate all the Or, especially in the final part concerning the King. Ah, I guess it is because we'r human :heh: ) which is somewhat refering me to Suzaku's
Hardly. You are talk about the son of a man who's supposed to be running the country. An eleven-year-old kid with a naive mind and little experience in politics would want to save his country, no matter what. He thought that any sort of resistance against Britannia was useless. I think stabbing his father was an act of desperation or complete frustration. Suzaku could not bear to watch his country die, and the immediate solution for an eleven-year-old mind untrained in politics is to avoid confrontation. And, in an impulsive drive, he killed his father. Screwed up, but, for an eleven-year-old, completely understandable.
To me, it's not understandable at all. If he was so childish in logical thinking, why so "mature" :heh: in acting ? Spare me, he was born to be an assasin :heh:
You know, has anybody ever thought of the following?
During the 'epic' chess match, it occured to me that there was a damn simple solution to solving the problem.
Mao: "-and if it tilts to your side, it will disarm the bomb. Isn't that fun-"
Lelouch proceeds to slam his side of the scale down.
Mao: "Hey! No fair!"
Lelouch: "You suck. Your plans suck. Your attire sucks. Everything about you sucks."
~~~~ ~~~~
Screw the chess rules... it was so damn simple to resolve that situation... urgh...
Bah!
You know, has anybody ever thought of the following?
During the 'epic' chess match, it occured to me that there was a damn simple solution to solving the problem.
Mao: "-and if it tilts to your side, it will disarm the bomb. Isn't that fun-"
Lelouch proceeds to slam his side of the scale down.
Mao: "Hey! No fair!"
Lelouch: "You suck. Your plans suck. Your attire sucks. Everything about you sucks."
~~~~ ~~~~
Screw the chess rules... it was so damn simple to resolve that situation... urgh...
Bah!
Considering Mao had a gun, applying that wont be so easy. And you think Mao can really be trusted? What if both sides are rigged?
evil|plushie
2007-02-07, 09:18
and the immediate solution for an eleven-year-old mind untrained in politics is to avoid confrontation. And, in an impulsive drive, he killed his father.
Wait...wait....avoiding confrontations = killing his father??? Shouldn't that have been a confrontation of sorts also??
Owaranai Destiny
2007-02-07, 10:08
Hardly. You are talk about the son of a man who's supposed to be running the country. An eleven-year-old kid with a naive mind and little experience in politics would want to save his country, no matter what. He thought that any sort of resistance against Britannia was useless. I think stabbing his father was an act of desperation or complete frustration. Suzaku could not bear to watch his country die, and the immediate solution for an eleven-year-old mind untrained in politics is to avoid confrontation. And, in an impulsive drive, he killed his father. Screwed up, but, for an eleven-year-old, completely understandable. I've adopted new horizons for Suzaku now, and I hope he can come to grips with that. This is becoming quite interesting, and clearing up a lot of my questions.
Understandable? No. By the standards of a normal society, his actions were twisted, no matter how so-called justifiable he might make them sound. Granted that he was desperate, that he wanted little or no deaths occurring through a compromise by the Japanese by means of surrendering.
Perhaps it is only in the eyes of us viewers with an omnipotent view of things going on that can ever come to grips with what he has done in an act of goodwill to save his country...Only to be unable to prevent the massive damage to the national pride of Japanese, coupled with several massacres of innocent Elevens at that.
Which makes me wonder about another 'if' situation. Considering the fact that we still saw some resistance against the Britannians when they came (courtesy of the fodder tanks), what might happen if Suzaku hadn't committed patricide, and the Japanese continued to mount a full resistance with the Prime Minister at the helm of things? Unless the Japanese have an army full of robots, I don't think the Prime Minister's sudden 'suicide' is not going to affect the army's morale in wonderfully negative ways.
But even if such an action is really justified, that just all the more makes him similar to the present Lelouch: Willing to do anything to achieve what he believes is 'good', even to the extent of killing his father (Recall that Lelouch killed his own brother Clovis, blood-related or not personally).
First thought - LOL Super Suzaku to the rescue!*insert dramatic BGM* Who the heck needs Lancelot when you can run on the walls and dodge bullets. I don't know what drugs he is taking, but must be some neat stuff. Next thing you know he will bee shooting lasers from his eyes and lightning from his arse.
Tho i must say - now Suzaku seems a LOT more interesting than before. I wonder how many more blows (if any) his mind can take :p
Cornelia x Euphie moment = cute :) ... and they seem to think that Lulu and Nunnaly were killed in Japan... i am looking towards the day Cornelia finds out who is under the Zero's mask. (Unfortunately, that day will be her last, most likely... i kinda like her)
Despite his mind-reading capabilities Mao got outwitted by Lulu again. But is it safe to assume he is dead - remember: we still didn't get to see the body... unless Lulu ordered him to go commit a suicide.
A nice and informative ep, the only part i disliked was the over-the-top Suzaku superhero actions.
I've said it before, and i'll say it again - how the mood changes the second Mao mentions about Suzaku killing his father is a work of genius. :3
Deathkillz
2007-02-07, 11:56
Cornelia x Euphie moment = cute :) ... and they seem to think that Lulu and Nunnaly were killed in Japan... i am looking towards the day Cornelia finds out who is under the Zero's mask. (Unfortunately, that day will be her last, most likely... i kinda like her)
adding onto that fact it seems that cornelia was caring towards lulu and nanali to even be mentioning them ~ this shows that she isnt as cold blooded as once thought ~ at least she isnt someone who would kick a family member (unlike dear daddy)
this shows that she isnt as cold blooded as once thought
Well, that just shows that people shouldn't judge someone when only been seen on the battlefield. All we've seen from Cornelia before this is her determined battle side (which i do love to pieces), so it shouldn't be much of a shock that she as a cute/caring side that we seen in this episode.
I'm glad that Mao is finally re-dead. Lelouch seriously needs to get back on track in destroying Britannia.
The first part of the episode was packed. I wonder about the motives of that reporter(?) guy who seems to be running his operations. There was some mention of Rakshata from the Indian Armed Forces joining Lelouch too.
COMFY ULTRA 40% OFF.
FlareKnight
2007-02-07, 12:58
Well this was a packed episode that had a lot going on. I still can't believe Mao didn't die, maybe Lelouch should've had him fed to some wild animals so he could be torn apart he's that durable. At least C.C. managed to deal with him once and for all. Perhaps telling whether she will surive the ending of the show or not.
I found the dealings between Lloyd and Millay. She was trying to act proper but Lloyd was happy just being himself. Which is actually a pretty funny guy. If those two do end up together considering their personalities it would be a pretty strange marriage. Messing around with getting married immediately then putting it on hold. Nice to have some comedy in the episode.
The Euphemia and Cornelia moment was nice though gives me a bad feeling about what might happen to her. Wonder if Cornelia knows much about what happened to Lelouch's mother or if she is just hiding it from Euphemia. At least it seems the attempt to hide from the royals worked pretty well and everyone thinks Nunally and Lelouch died in Japan. Hopefully she doesn't get killed but you can't be sure.
A nice rescue mission put together by Lelouch and Suzaku. Using Lelouch's brains and Suzaku's ability to get down to the facility and past the machine gun. Clever trick by Lelouch of using the geass on himself so Mao wouldn't know what was going on. Though it was impressive that he'd put himself through the emotional torture of thinking his sister had been killed just to make sure everything worked out well. Gotta wonder what Suzauki is at times to be able to disarm the bomb in such a situation.
Of course the end is where a lot of the discussion is being based on. Have to wonder why they only gave us a shadow forms of what happened with Suzaku and his father. Honestly would like to have an ear on what was said between the two of them. Suzaku's dad sure gave him a solid punch that knocked him out of the frame. I'm only guessing but it would seem that Suzaku was trying to convince his father to stop the fighting because they had no chance of winning. Clearly his father got tired of the conversation shoved him back and knocked him down. Maybe in that small moment desperate to stop his father he saw some knife that was nearby grabbed it and charged blindly. Obviously there is no way to know exactly because we only see the shapes.
I don't know what the legal status in Japan is for murder by a minor. Of course this is a seperate universe so who knows exactly what the laws are. He might not even been charged with a crime because a child can't have the intent necessary for murder. Heck this could break down into a manslaughter, murder dispute that really doesn't matter in the long run. I can see the dilemna Suzaku was dealing with at that moment though obviously I can't condone murder regardless of the reasons. What's interesting is what Mao said about what Suzaku has been doing. The guilt of killing his father has drove him to put himself in all these situations. Never dealing with the fear of dying because deep down he probably believes he does deserve to die for his crime. Maybe that's why he couldn't join the resistance. There was no way he could fight along side those resistant fighters after he had killed the person who had advoacted fighting to the bitter end. In his mind he may not even deserve to fight with them.
Fighting with Britanians and dying that way may be a fitting end in his view. Also Suzaku was charged with the murder of a political figure (Clovis). Perhaps he didn't try to run away from the system because he felt he deserved the punishment that it set out. Sure he was accused of killing the wrong political figure but in the end he had commited the crime. Though in the Clovis case it was the actions of Lelouch that saved Suzaku. It's a stretch but perhaps down the road Lelouch will be there to try and save Suzaku one more time in relation to the death wish/guilt he feels about what happened with his father.
The connection between Lelouch and Suzaku is an interesting one. Both have killed family members for what they believed as the right reasons. Suzaku has killed his father and Lelouch is planning on doing a similar thing. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with Suzaku in the future. He now has a position to develop from, not just some Kira character out to save everything. But growing from his past and moving past what he's done.
Oh, well, another typical Sunrise plot device type of character bites the dust. Yes, Mao I am looking at you. ;) His miraculous survival prior to this episode was also so typical for Sunrise of late, they did not even bother with mentioning any details about how exactly he pulled it off.
I am a lot less bothered by Suzaku being a father-killer (I hated him anyway) than by his ridiculous Matrix style combat abilities. I didn't take the series that seriously anyway but seeing Suzaku defeats automated machine guns just like that my suspension of disbeilef simply stopped working completely.
Oh, well, another typical Sunrise plot device type of character bites the dust. Yes, Mao I am looking at you. ;) His miraculous survival prior to this episode was also so typical for Sunrise of late, they did not even bother with mentioning any details about how exactly he pulled it off.
I am a lot less bothered by Suzaku being a father-killer (I hated him anyway) than by his ridiculous Matrix style combat abilities. I didn't take the series that seriously anyway but seeing Suzaku defeats automated machine guns just like that my suspension of disbeilef simply stopped working completely.
immortal green hair girls. psychic powers. military organizations using humanoid robots. if this hadn't destroyed your sense of reality having anything to do with this mecha yet, I salute you sir.
apparently there's a reason Suzaku is the ultimate co-ordinat...er, has amazing physical abilities. so I'm personally waiting to be amused by that.
as for Mao being alive, it really comes down to how you want to structure the episodes: it might have made slightly more sense to switch this episode and episode 15. at least it would be relatively more logical that way. but you really don't get the impact of the Suzaku revelation if you put it off for an episode to have Lelouch school Mao and then move onto episode 17 (the latest Lancelot battle).
it was really just a matter of which plot thread took precedence: the fight with Mao, or the fight with Suzaku.
immortal green hair girls. psychic powers. military organizations using humanoid robots. if this hadn't destroyed your sense of reality having anything to do with this mecha yet, I salute you sir
Er, it does not have to be either entirely real or totally fantastic, you know. Even considering have all these mechas and superpowers it's weird to see someone who is supposed to be "just human" do impossible things so calmly as if he does that every day. Surely there might be an explanation for Suzaku being so superhuman but I wouldn't be surprised if there is no explanation. Let's wait and see.
^there is. the production staff has stated they'll explain it...at some point.
so wait for that. though I doubt it'll make anything better, at very least it'll be good for a laugh. ^_^
jacotyco
2007-02-07, 14:38
First thought - LOL Super Suzaku to the rescue!*insert dramatic BGM* Who the heck needs Lancelot when you can run on the walls and dodge bullets. I don't know what drugs he is taking, but must be some neat stuff. Next thing you know he will bee shooting lasers from his eyes and lightning from his arse.
it's his geas:p
Everyone is saying Suzaku killed his dad, which is true...but has anyone stopped to think it may have been an accident? Maybe they were struggling around and the dad got stabbed by accident. You can say he killed him without an intention to actually kill him.
Also, if Mao comes back again, I hope it is the final episode and he Kills Lulu, he deserves it. I would have ran outside and made damn sure he was dead and not just stand inside the church (or chapel, or whatever it was) and be thinking about stuff. He should of ran outside, grabbed the gun and just shot Mao point-blank in the head about half a dozen times, then you know he is dead.
Also, about Cornelia...she may have not had anything to do with Marianne's death, maybe she does tho. I find it hard that she knew and did nothing. I mean, Euphie even knows that Clovis was involved in the murder, so somehow information was leaked, tho we do not know how much. Why would Clovis's involvement be leaked tho and no one else's? Even tho Clovis said (under the Geass) that Cornelia, and I believe Schneizel?, were involved or knew something or the truth behind the murder, doesn't mean it is true. Clovis mentioned her name, but that doesn't mean she was actually involved. People can vehemently believe that someone has done something or known something, carrying it with them to the day they die...and the actuality is that it is all a misunderstanding. In the case of getting information from a victim, Lulu's Geass forces them to tell the truth. Tho it is, in fact, the truth that is believed in their mind to be the truth. Meaning, if they know for a fact that "2+2=4", they can't tell Lulu that "2+2=5". However, if they were taught to believe that "2+2=5" is truth, then they would say that, even tho the statement is false. Understand?
Could a mod delete this post? I accidentally posted twice, but I didn't see a "delete" option, just and "edit"
Everyone is saying Suzaku killed his dad, which is true...but has anyone stopped to think it may have been an accident? Maybe they were struggling around and the dad got stabbed by accident. You can say he killed him without an intention to actually kill him.
no, since I have more faith in the writing staff than that.
you go for what's interesting. and what's interesting is if Suzaku intentionally murdered his father, not that it was an accident, because if he meant to do it, it's just that much more haunting.
Suzaku intentionally killed his father for the same reason Lelouch keeps getting into bad situations despite being brilliant and manipulative: people like Lelouch because he's a nifty character, but the reason you watch the show is because Lelouch's lot in life is not an easy one. we say we wish these sorts of things didn't happen to the characters we like, but its precisely because we like them and they're placed in horrible situations that we keep watching.
Deathkillz
2007-02-07, 16:48
Everyone is saying Suzaku killed his dad, which is true...but has anyone stopped to think it may have been an accident? Maybe they were struggling around and the dad got stabbed by accident. You can say he killed him without an intention to actually kill him.
did anyone say that it was intentional? its blatantly obvious that it was an accident ~ suzaku was probably trying to prevent his dad from doing something that he thought was unjust...but stabbing probably went over the limit :uhoh:
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-07, 16:54
If Suzaku didn't mean to kill his dad, then he would have said "It was an accident!" or "I didn't mean to!" rather than the "I had no choice!" that he actually used to reply with. Thus, it was no accident.:D Q.E.D.
Deathkillz
2007-02-07, 16:59
fine you proved a good point >.< okey suzaku is concluded as evil ~ actually ive never really thought that he could do such a thing ~
but there could be another meaning to "i had no choice" anyone care to think of an excuse? :heh: (actually there isnt...well if killing his dad means that he could save "someone" then that could explain something ~ he had no choice but to kill his dad in order to save lulu! (crazy baseless speculation)[/spoiler]
Back when the mind hax happened to Suzaku, there was a scene that shown Marianne (Lelouch & Nunnally's mother) with Suzaku's father. Not to say that could be linked to this, though its something that should be thought about.
Back when the mind hax happened to Suzaku, there was a scene that shown Marianne (Lelouch & Nunnally's mother) with Suzaku's father. Not to say that could be linked to this, though its something that should be thought about.
though Suzaku and Lelouch also appeared in the odd white space with the creeping death soon after, and were looking at each other.
the sequence was way to wiggy too make any definite assumptions. 0_o
FlareKnight
2007-02-07, 17:11
I'm not quite sure with the "I had no choice" statement. If you've done something wrong, or when something terrible happens you want justification. There has to be a bigger meaning than it was a random incident, or an accident. Having some meaning like it was for the sake of the country is better than nothing. Mao said Suzaku was grasping for an explanation, so it seems like he didn't really have a set plan when he went for his father.
Though I agree it's equally possible that he really did it intentionally. Trying to rationalize what might've been a crime of passion with the reasons he used. Until we can see the entire scene I can't be sure. That scene seemed to be showing a heated argument, father throws a punch, Suzaku uses a knife I think it's clear who wins that one.
The response right after an event is usually the most honest. Suzaku has had years to try and figure out that event and what he thought of it. In the end I think the most likely scenario is that it was simply a sensless crime. Suzaku was desperate to stop his father things escalated and it ended with his father's death.
I'm interested in next week though. From Lelouch's expression either something has gone horribly wrong again. Or maybe since Suzaku is unstable right now he loses and Lelouch gets to see who's been piloting Lancelot.
sucks to be father in Code Geass Universe, either you get stabbed by your 8 year old son or you're going to bite the dust soon by your 17 year old son :<
Anh_Minh
2007-02-07, 17:26
I wonder if Lelouch isn't going to be able to somehow turn Cornelia against the Emperor and the first Prince whose name I can't remember or pronounce? In revenge for Marianne.
though Suzaku and Lelouch also appeared in the odd white space with the creeping death soon after, and were looking at each other.
the sequence was way to wiggy to make any definite assumptions. 0_o
That white scene was due to Lelouch touching C.C. - aka being apart of the mind hax. Marianne appearing in the scene with Lelouch's father was a flashback.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-07, 17:38
I wonder if Lelouch isn't going to be able to somehow turn Cornelia against the Emperor and the first Prince whose name I can't remember or pronounce? In revenge for Marianne.
That just reminded me of a crack-pot theory I made up last night...
If Lulu want to, he could Geass one of Schneizel's men into assassinating (or more likely attempting but fail to assassinate) Euphie.
Then Zero can just sit back and watch the fireworks.
Deathkillz
2007-02-07, 17:56
That just reminded me of a crack-pot theory I made up last night...
If Lulu want to, he could Geass one of Schneizel's men into assassinating (or more likely attempting but fail to assassinate) Euphie.
Then Zero can just sit back and watch the fireworks.
that would just be lazy and anyways lulu is too smart to think of such a simple solution :heh:
That white scene was due to Lelouch touching C.C. - aka being apart of the mind hax. Marianne appearing in the scene with Lelouch's father was a flashback.
right, but the sequence is:
-crazy Suzaku mind hacks
-reality
-crazy CC flashbacks
-back to reality
-Marianne
-Kuurugi
-Suzaku
-Lelouch
-looking at each other
-madness! >_O
I can just as easily argue from these images that Marianne and Kuurugi both appeared because they had similar meanings/significance in each of their minds. (same concept, different expression) while I'm not saying that's right, the crazy mind hax is far too off the wall to really have any definite theory. and with nothing else to suggest a past connection....
still, it'd be fun.
Excellent. Wonderful--they really have stepped away from stereotypes.
I see where the first line of the episode makes sense, many examples afoot. Malice born from kindness: Suzaku kills his father to save Japan. Kindness born from malice: Suzaku becomes a soldier in reaction to his own terrible deed. And Leouch's whole style of life is a kindness/malice duality obviously, since it's his kindness toward the weak such as his family that drives him to do stuff like blow up that ship 3 episodes back.
CG at first at first seemed an undeep show that has cool/unique characters/plots but doesn't really have any subtle moments to really enhance it, but now that what many of us suspected in Suzaku (that what he does / has done is just as morally ambiguous as what Lelouch does / has done) has finally been explicitly confirmed. On top of that, Lelouch just becomes more and more awesome. The way he just broke down when he believed there was no way he could win (too bad he isn't a supercapable soldier like Suzaku or he'd just throw the chess board in Mao's face and knock him unconscious spontaneously). And the way Mao characterized Lulu when he said that Lelouch was the type of person who superanalyzes and questions himself to spectacular extents just ties in with all the complexity and elements of self-doubt we've started to see in him especially since Shirley told him Zero killed her father. In short, we continue to see new sides to Lelouch--more aspects of him--while with Suzaku we see just one aspect, but more and more of its depth.
All in all I think the level of what they've tried to accomplish, while not at the maturity level of, say, Death Note (or what Death Note could have been had the mangaka not explicitly tried not to focus on characterization) in terms of character potential, is the perfect kind of show I'd want the type of people who become bored by Death Note to watch--it has similar potential to really activate areas of your mind that normally aren't ever activated, and is more unsubtly exciting so it'll be better received. A brilliantly win series.
It's official, Suzaku's a fruitcake. There were some strong hints that he killed his father, but now it has been confirmed by Mao (who added the convenient psyche analysis) and just like with the C.C. flashback attack he totally breaks down. This must be one of the most fucked up cases of denial, going from patricide to joining the Britannians to reinforce the reasoning behind his action. I'm just not sure whether that was a conscious or subconscious move yet, is he aware of his past actions or does it only surface when he's confronted with it? Well I won't go into this any further, VCV already did a good job of that.
One thing I don't understand is how Suzaku went from Britannian-hating (as shown in the DVD extra) to Britannian-fearing. I suppose his hate diminished by hanging out with Lelouch & Nunally but did he come to fear the Britannian empire from things he heard from Lelouch and come to believe that there's no point in resisting? Even so, killing his dad seems to imply there was a little bit more to it than that.
Time for something completely different; I liked the little interlude showing Cornelia and Euphemia, reminiscing about Clovis, Lelouch and Nunnally. It's quite ironic that she wishes to stabilize Area 11 in honor of their fallen siblings, including Lelouch. I seriously can't wait to see the reaction when they at some point find out the truth, assuming they do. One thing to take out of Cornelia's statement is that it's unlikely that she knows anything about who was behind the assassination of Lelouch's mother.
There were also some things that didn't make sense to me in this episode. For one thing, why would Mao use a bomb with a 500m radius if he knows that he would have to wait out of Geass range. And even if that radius is that high, it seems unlikely that it would penetrate to the surface completely since it's quite deep. He could still have stayed in range, which means that Lelouch's deduction was flawed aswell. Unless ofcourse in the CG-world the bomb technology is something that desintegrates all matter in a certain radius without restrictions. Then there was the chess game; it almost seemed like Lelouch lost all his pieces without a fight, and he never took some back in return. Even with Mao's Geass this seems unlikely. Sure he would win out in the end, but it couldn't have been that overwhelming. Also, it looked like Mao expected to see the result of his explosion. What, he had an indestructable camera in place that could withstand that explosion? Well one possibility is that it was a super high tech camera with huge range and the hall was well over 500m in length. Well this concludes the list of things that didn't quite add up to me. :p
Next episode looks interesting apparently Lelouch finds out who's the pilot of the Knightmare he's come to hate. ;)
FlareKnight
2007-02-08, 09:29
Well I'm going to assume that the war was already going on when Suzaku and his father had their argument and subsequent death. I don't think it was that Suzaku was afraid of Britania, just that it was clear Japan was going to lose. His father apparently was satisfied having Japan fight to the absolute last man and to the bitter end. Which is noble and everything, but completely pointless since all they were doing was throwing away lives.
I'm guessing that Suzaku didn't want the entire country to be killed by a futile effort to fight a war that there was no chance of winning. Still leaning towards an argument breaking out, father punches, Suzaku stabs and that's the end of that. It certainly makes the conversations interesting. With Suzaku it's a mixture of guilt and distain for the method he had used back when he was young in stopping his father. But also still disliking the method of unnecessary bloodshed that Zero is using. Seems like Suzaku is running himself into a bad situation. He has to either accept what he did and continue on that path to avoid unnecessary bloodshed or decide to help the Japanese like he had originally intended by whatever means are needed. Sitting in the position he is right now will eventually break him.
For the rest concerning I've already mentioned what I thought of it so it's fine. Sure Mao could've used a bomb that wasn't 500m in radius but then the show would've made it tough for Lelouch and Suzaku to make the rescue :). With the chess it's not surprising to me that Lelouch lost so badly. He already has the memory of losing once before, knowing Mao's geass, and being distracted by his concern for Nunally. I've never played a chess game under those circumstances but it probably wouldn't be easy. Lelouch practically defeats himself since he spends all the time questioning his moves. But yeah, some things didn't make sense but that didn't detract from the episode for me.
It looks like next week Lancelot is going to lose either to the Guren or a combination with that other machine they showed. Don't envy the issues that Lelouch is going to have to deal with on this one. I'm sure Kallen won't be that excited either considering the time she has spent with Suzaku in the school.
evil|plushie
2007-02-08, 10:39
Shrugs. Was the opening scene where Suzaku and Lelouch were walking through corpse field before or after he killed his dad? If it was before, that might have been his rationalisation for killing his dad. If it was after, I think the expression on his face might have stood for 'omg, what have I done???'
antheonoileo
2007-02-08, 12:26
Have rewatched the scences. Now I have the feeling that Suzaku didn't kill his father for the sake of peace or Japanese lives. He did that because of Lulu and especially Nanali. In the flashback he only wanted to end the war, might be not to avoid more damages to Japan side but rather because he didn't want Nanali to be gotten involved.
FlareKnight
2007-02-08, 13:29
Well looking at the first episode I'm assuming it's after Japan has lost/surrendered whatever. I wouldn't say Suzaku's expression is 'omg, what have I done'. It's more of a depressed face that would match looking at the worn torn remains of your country.
I could imagine Suzaku's confronting his father could have been mixed with worrying about the loss of Japanese lives and along with those lives Lelouch and Nunally. If the war was fought to the bitter end they probably would be caught in the battles at some point.
Twisted Reality
2007-02-08, 15:47
I voted for "poor." I think the episode just outright sucked. Yeah, I know I'm the only guy who did.
The redeeming parts of the episode are that Lelouch and Suzaku get a character comparison and Suzaku's past is opened up. But otherwise, I hated it.
Did we really need to have Mao brought back from the dead? I'm sorry, but he's dead to me now that he has served his purpose with Shirley, Lelouch and CC. He was also excellent in emphasizing the gravity of Lelouch's powers and responsibilities and CC's character. After that, bringing him back seemed pointless. And after all was said and done, does he really have anything more to contribute to the show? He's just an incredibly annoying jackass without either Lelouch or CC to play off of him.
One of the fun parts of watching this show is to watch Lelouch kick proverbial ass. But seeing him do it for a second time to Mao, in a highly improbable scenario, is a buzz killer. There was really no point to the conflict in this episode other than to just have a conflict that serves as filler. It doesn't really bring up any interesting points about Lelouch and Suzaku's screentime was just a laughable way of introducing the topic of his father. ("You mean they brought back Mao to talk about Suzaku's daddy issues?!")
By improbable scenario: I mean the fact that we have to take a lot of things at face value (more than usual) to make it work. First off, Mao is somehow able to secure a large number of resources and manpower to transport a bomb onto a secure campus and then somehow thread it through the maintenance ducts and string it up off a high ceiling. Perhaps not impossible, but still it smacks of irredeemable cheesiness and has little worthy payoff.
And of course, we have to also assume that Lelouch was careless enough to not go to lengths to make sure that Mao is really dead. Really, I'm not used to seeing such a meticulous planner forget to put in the final nail into the coffin of somebody who presents the biggest threat to him. I mean, Lelouch wasn't just passive about Mao, but was actually disarmed and afraid of him. It's hard to believe he'd just dismiss him for dead because he saw him get shot. (Man, Brittanian medical science is really amazing!)
Suzaku can dodge bullets and knock a machine gun turret that's firmly mounted on the ceiling? What?! He jumps and cuts a wire without any leverage behind his knife? What?! "Hmm...judging by the appearance of the boxy shape and red color of this bomb's casing, I'd say it has a 500-meter blast radius." What?! Are you kidding me?!
Okay, these aren't exactly delicate plot points. But really, being a character I already despise, it doesn't help that Suzaku is being made to seem badass by being thrown several large and improbable bones that he solves with equally magical athletic abilities. It's hard to respect him when the show's producers will only bother to showcase his abilities as a diversion to the main story. Sure maybe he really deserved more development as a character, but this seems like a half-assed way of doing it. Lelouch is not entirely innocent of this either (i.e. magical sinkhole in episode 2), but this is still too much to swallow for one episode. Really this just reinforces my opinion that Suzaku is a tool.
Salahuddin
2007-02-08, 19:02
One thing I don't get is... Why didn't Lulu use his Geass to have Mao shoot himself? Wouldn't that have solved his problems much more efficiently?
5_of_Spades
2007-02-08, 19:28
Ditto to Twisted Reality, but wouldn't go as far as to hate it.
One thing I don't get, why can't Lulu just press down on his side of the balance to 'win'? I know he is geassed and all, but... (Then again maybe he is thinking that Mao is tricking him with the balance, and both sides would set off the bomb, but...)
Also another thing. Why did Cornelia seemingly blame Japan for Lulu and Nunnally's 'deaths', when it was her old man who sent the siblings there???
(The Suzaku machine gun kick reminded me so much of TRC that it is not funny.)
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-08, 19:39
One thing I don't get is... Why didn't Lulu use his Geass to have Mao shoot himself? Wouldn't that have solved his problems much more efficiently?
Ahh... I see. You have missed one vital detail of Lelouch's methodology.
Lelouch does not want the fact that he has a superpower to come out into the open. His Geass might be powerful, but it is not invulnerable and indeed is full of flaws. The only sure way he could prevent people from finding out about his Geass, is to:
1. Use Geass when there are no live witnesses. (Being alone with the Geassed. Note that he broke the rule with Vietta or Kallen, but that's because he didn't yet know about the one-geass-per-person problem.)
2. Use Geass in a way that even if there are witnesses, they could explain the result some other way. (Mr Orange being a supposed traitor and raving lunatic.)
3. Use the Geass to kill rival Japanese resistance groups in the form of suicide. (Using the classic stereotype "Everyone knows the Japanese just LOVE to commit suicide" as a cover. This obviously isn't true, but it is true enough for Britannians to believe.)
As for Mao, there was no way Lelouch could kill him via Geass that actually made sense. Suzaku knows how physically weak Lulu is, so any lie that Lelouch overpowers Mao would not be believable. And Mao was not Japanese so "he killed himself because I beat him at chess" won't do.
It gets even dicier when Suzaku is in the room, because then Suzaku would hear what Lulu say to Mao. Thus if Mao blow his own brains out after hearing "Why don't you just die!" from Lelouch, there would be a lot of questions.
People can't find weaknesses in your superpower if they don't know you HAVE a superpower. This is where Light in DeathNote made his mistake; he showed his hand too much out of arrogance.
EDIT: Just to emphasise, most characters in-show considers Zero a powerfully wealthy and influential person, rather than some guy with mind-control powers. Sure, there are a few individuals who suspect something, but as long as their numbers don't grow that idea wouldn't be treated seriously.
Anh_Minh
2007-02-08, 20:01
VCV: I think he meant after Suzaku started to freak out. Before that, well, sunglasses. And Mao might have detonated the bomb the moment Lelouch thought seriously about it anyway.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-08, 20:36
VCV: I think he meant after Suzaku started to freak out. Before that, well, sunglasses. And Mao might have detonated the bomb the moment Lelouch thought seriously about it anyway.
Regardless, Lulu would still have a hard time explaining to Suzaku why Mao killed himself. His sister is already safe by then; Lulu now has to put the security of his mission next in priority.
Twisted Reality
2007-02-08, 20:37
Ahh... I see. You have missed one vital detail of Lelouch's methodology.
Lelouch does not want the fact that he has a superpower to come out into the open. His Geass might be powerful, but it is not invulnerable and indeed is full of flaws. The only sure way he could prevent people from finding out about his Geass, is to:
1. Use Geass when there are no live witnesses. (Being alone with the Geassed. Note that he broke the rule with Vietta or Kallen, but that's because he didn't yet know about the one-geass-per-person problem.)
2. Use Geass in a way that even if there are witnesses, they could explain the result some other way. (Mr Orange being a supposed traitor and raving lunatic.)
3. Use the Geass to kill rival Japanese resistance groups in the form of suicide. (Using the classic stereotype "Everyone knows the Japanese just LOVE to commit suicide" as a cover. This obviously isn't true, but it is true enough for Britannians to believe.)
As for Mao, there was no way Lelouch could kill him via Geass that actually made sense. Suzaku knows how physically weak Lulu is, so any lie that Lelouch overpowers Mao would not be believable. And Mao was not Japanese so "he killed himself because I beat him at chess" won't do.
It gets even dicier when Suzaku is in the room, because then Suzaku would hear what Lulu say to Mao. Thus if Mao blow his own brains out after hearing "Why don't you just die!" from Lelouch, there would be a lot of questions.
People can't find weaknesses in your superpower if they don't know you HAVE a superpower. This is where Light in DeathNote made his mistake; he showed his hand too much out of arrogance.
EDIT: Just to emphasise, most characters in-show considers Zero a powerfully wealthy and influential person, rather than some guy with mind-control powers. Sure, there are a few individuals who suspect something, but as long as their numbers don't grow that idea wouldn't be treated seriously.
Couldn't he have done something more practical like..."Shut up and cower in place!" He could have then just played it off as Mao as being a cowardly and depraved lunatic.
And Zero is really more like a Harry Houdini. He walks into traps or situations involving a lot of deadly weapons aimed at him and walks out unscratched and unmolested (as far as anybody knows). He conjures up resources out of nowhere like pulling bunnies out of hats or he mesmerizes powerful political figures (i.e. Cornelia, Mr. Orange). He even does this to his own "knights" when he pulled off the landslide. (You're all trapped in a box that's rapidly filling with water...well...I have a magic trick up my sleeve. Care to see it?) Zero is just so insane and blown out of proportion that he seems nothing short of legendary. I don't think it would surprise anybody when they learn that Zero has somehow gotten the Chinese Federation on his side. If the numbers of his Black Knights do increase, people will only see Zero once more as an all-pervasive presence, like a pernicious cancer or a magical genie.
And Zero is really more like a Harry Houdini. He walks into traps or situations involving a lot of deadly weapons aimed at him and walks out unscratched and unmolested (as far as anybody knows). He conjures up resources out of nowhere like pulling bunnies out of hats or he mesmerizes powerful political figures (i.e. Cornelia, Mr. Orange). He even does this to his own "knights" when he pulled off the landslide. (You're all trapped in a box that's rapidly filling with water...well...I have a magic trick up my sleeve. Care to see it?) Zero is just so insane and blown out of proportion that he seems nothing short of legendary. I don't think it would surprise anybody when they learn that Zero has somehow gotten the Chinese Federation on his side. If the numbers of his Black Knights do increase, people will only see Zero once more as an all-pervasive presence, like a pernicious cancer or a magical genie.
I don’t see that at all. The thing that attracted me to Lelouch, and to the show in general, in the first place was that for once, the main character did not win his battles through insane fighting skills, willpower and hotblood or pulled-out-of-my-ass plot devices, he won because he was smart. Even the supernatural power of the Geass is made significant only by his wit at the time of using it. His plans usually employ unexpected elements, but those elements are always something conceivable. With the exception on the latest reliance on Suzaku’s Matrix powers, the plans and escapes he himself orchestrated were never unrealistic or random, they were either a result of his own micromanaging planning or someone else (C.C.) giving him a hand.
What he does to Cornelia during the hotel-jacking and to his men during the Narita battle is not something “pulled out of a hat”, it’s called psychological warfare. Knowing how someone operates and exploiting weaknesses in character is a very real method of manipulation He’s not “insane or blown out of proportion”, he’s just very very smart. In fact, it’s been clearly shown that he is neither strong, physically skilled or a particularly good pilot, he’s pretty darn weak and only makes up for it by exploiting every resource at hand.
Anh_Minh
2007-02-08, 21:21
Regardless, Lulu would still have a hard time explaining to Suzaku why Mao killed himself. His sister is already safe by then; Lulu now has to put the security of his mission next in priority.
Quite. Anyway, Lelouch didn't want Mao dead, but captured for interrogation.
Twisted Reality
2007-02-08, 22:00
I don’t see that at all. The thing that attracted me to Lelouch, and to the show in general, in the first place was that for once, the main character did not win his battles through insane fighting skills, willpower and hotblood or pulled-out-of-my-ass plot devices, he won because he was smart. Even the supernatural power of the Geass is made significant only by his wit at the time of using it. His plans usually employ unexpected elements, but those elements are always something conceivable. With the exception on the latest reliance on Suzaku’s Matrix powers, the plans and escapes he himself orchestrated were never unrealistic or random, they were either a result of his own micromanaging planning or someone else (C.C.) giving him a hand.
What he does to Cornelia during the hotel-jacking and to his men during the Narita battle is not something “pulled out of a hat”, it’s called psychological warfare. Knowing how someone operates and exploiting weaknesses in character is a very real method of manipulation He’s not “insane or blown out of proportion”, he’s just very very smart. In fact, it’s been clearly shown that he is neither strong, physically skilled or a particularly good pilot, he’s pretty darn weak and only makes up for it by exploiting every resource at hand.
Umm...I'm talking about how the public *perceives* Zero. He's a man of mystery to the audience within the show, even though us viewers know that the mystery is explainable by his powers. Lelouch has *invented* zero, and he plays to the crowd with remarkable showmanship. Cornelia wasn't mesmerized, but it seems like it. Zero can produce knowledge or brilliant tricks to cow his enemies, and that's all the public can see. For example, in the hotel-jacking, guards taking Euphemia to their leaders only see that Zero has somehow convinced them all to kill themselves...and Zero himself utterly untouchable.
Above all, Zero doesn't use magic (well he actually does if you consider Geass), but it's like the way a stage magician displays his trick. It's baffling, it *has* to be a trick, but it's hard to tell because the illusion is so complete. Cornelia only half-heartedly gave chase to C.C. within the Zero costume because Cornelia so thoroughly believes that he would not show himself unless he could absolutely escape. He's so arrogant that he shows up in person to a warzone! He somehow pulls out trainloads of Knightmares and gives them to his followers. He has a mobile fortress both well-furnished and luxurious. His plans are audacious and clever. As far as anybody is concerned, he is unreal and unbelievable.
Of course, underneath all that is Lelouch with his Geass and his clever mind.
he could have ordered mao to go jump off a tall building, or a cliff; he might need to be more specific to ensure death, but really shut up was his lamest command ever. Mao would then run off and seek a tall building to throw himself off, any witnesses would just think he took off.
Twisted, I too thought poorly of the episode. It seemed especially pointless after a great episode 15, but I gave it a slightly higher score for CC's wardrobe expansion, finally seeing Kallen again, and LL's using his cunning to defeat Mao sans lame geass command and lulu punch.
Jewelray
2007-02-08, 22:52
The first half of the episode was pretty silly. Reviving Mao ("isn't Britianian technology great" -_-) , yet another mind game to challenge Lelouch, Suzaku going seed mode... It was all so over the top that I could help but think "Are you serious? Why?" But the ending was pretty exciting, and now we know the reason for Suzaku being the ultimate hypocrite.
As for Lulu geassing himself, I don't like comparing Code Geass to Death Note, but sorry Lulu, Light did it first. But it was nice to see Lulu really afraid and show what he is really feeling.
But I think there could have been a way to Lulu to win the chess match... Welcome to Lelouch's Mind's Eye Hentai Theater, staring C.C....
FlareKnight
2007-02-09, 00:07
I think with Lelouch geassing Mao wasn't a really big plan on his part. He was watching his best friend's mind being torn to bits by Mao and didn't want a repeat of Shirleys. Not sure if his 'shut up' command was just his anger and that triggered the geass or whether he just wanted Mao to shut the hell up which would put an end to his danger. Considering Lelouch charged and took a swing at Mao means that he probably just really angry at the time.
It was an interesting episode with Lelouch really going to the brink when he thought Nunally had been killed. Just shows that if anything happened to her it would mean a lot of trouble for everyone
Piss-poor execution. The whole episode felt like an addon that should've been included somewhere else, somehow else. Preferably before episode fifteen's climax, since that would've spared us from the ingenious way Mao managed to survive. Shoot indeed.
I don't even want to begin to imagine how much sweet-talking Mao had to do to have someone install a 500 m radius pendulum bomb in a sewer below the suburb. C.C.'s convenient entrance dealt with Mao, when it might have been fitting at any other point, here it seemed ridiculous. Suzaku's revelation was done well enough, but they could've smoothed out the points where Mao begins his tirade. The beginning felt like a lesson conducted for the audience.
For an episode titled Captive Nanally it had a woeful amount of screentime for her, and even less of dialogue.
All in all this episode required way too much convenient things happening to succeed at all. It wasn't bad per se, but I expected so much more. It wasn't without its highlights though, among others any Nanally screentime is worth its weight in gold, the sisters' feelings and that Lelouch is dramatic even in his own misery.
blitz1/2
2007-02-09, 08:15
Can anyone explain why Lulu's geass actually worked on Mao this time and the other times failed?
Can anyone explain why Lulu's geass actually worked on Mao this time and the other times failed?
He never had a chance to have direct eye-contact with Mao before. The reason for Mao's visor.
Cheers.
In the preview for episode 17 is Lulu saying that he was trying to get information about the contract with CC from Mao.
Lulu never intend to kill him but he impulsive order him to shut up.
Sinestra
2007-02-09, 13:49
A little late with post but this episode was ok. The fact that Moa was still alive and the fact that Lulu did not even consider the option that he might have survived is a testament in my opinion to Lulu not following through sometimes. The result Lulu getting bit in the ass from it and Nanali getting mixed up in it. As Mao pointed out Lulu should have said Kill instead of shoot. OPPS :p
I will say Nanali showed courage when she kidnapped not even worrying about her own safety. She says "I wont forgive you if intend to make my brother sad" to me that showed courage. I guess with all that she went through in the past being kidnapped is no big deal. Over all an interesting episode Im still pretty interested in what roll Viletta will play even though at the moment she is playing housewife with Ougi.
WTF's in this epsiode
Lulu Geassed himself HOLY SHIT that was weird
Suzaku going Ninja Gadien ummmmm ok...
I did like seeing Suzakus crippled face when Mao mentioned how Suzaku killed his own father. Damn that was rough. next episode looks like its going to be damn good
monstratboy
2007-02-10, 06:36
With all the spoilers I was expecting Mao to die, but now thats he's gone I've been wishing C.C. might have reigned in and brought him to work by her side. It would have been cliche but interesting to have someone working with Lelouch who gets under his nerves but then turns into a playful child when C.C. is present. I can imagine them them fighting over C.C., Lelouche telling misleading truths making it seem he and C.C. have an adult relatinship while Mao makes childlike rebuttals that she only loves him and then runs off to be consoled like a baby by said person.
And I have to agree this was one of the worst episodes, WTF! was with that sad, SAD attack Lelouch made toward Mao. My God it just killed any image I had of him being physically capable of anything strenuous. Imaga brought to mind is what Momoko would actually be like if she wasn't a super-powered martial artist.
Owaranai Destiny
2007-02-10, 10:56
With all the spoilers I was expecting Mao to die, but now thats he's gone I've been wishing C.C. might have reigned in and brought him to work by her side. It would have been cliche but interesting to have someone working with Lelouch who gets under his nerves but then turns into a playful child when C.C. is present. I can imagine them them fighting over C.C., Lelouche telling misleading truths making it seem he and C.C. have an adult relatinship while Mao makes childlike rebuttals that she only loves him and then runs off to be consoled like a baby by said person.
You're right; It's extremely cliche, and it's also something Lelouch would never ever want. Mao has already caught him by surprise twice, with the second time almost taking her beloved sister's life. I don't see any reason for him to take risks for someone who hates him with a passion and would betray him if he sees it fit. Remember that having Mao around also means that there's always the danger of his true identity being exposed.
And I have to agree this was one of the worst episodes, WTF! was with that sad, SAD attack Lelouch made toward Mao. My God it just killed any image I had of him being physically capable of anything strenuous. Imaga brought to mind is what Momoko would actually be like if she wasn't a super-powered martial artist.
One of the worst? Perhaps, but only in the Code Geass history so far, and this episode is already pretty decent. Of course, the reasoning of how Mao survived was absolutely silly, but it also shows that for all his genius, Lelouch is still a human-fallible and susceptible to carelessness, something which he probably made up for in the next episode.
It's weird how some people decide that more screentime should be shown to the person mentioned in the title of the episode immediately. To me, the main attraction of this episode was the fact that we finally get to see Lelouch and Suzaku work together, an irony that stemmed from episode 2 till now, and even gets sweetened with the next episode. So what are we suppose to see from Nunally? Her thoughts of desperation? Her despair, or how she reacts in such a situation? Her thoughts on Suzaku when she realised both of them came? Spare me. If anything, it was at least commendable that she showed courage and steel-like nerves worthy of the noble she was in the past. Perhaps it was within the personality we never got to see, and for me, that was enough, rather than having screentime wasted on needless things.
It has, of course, irked me how Mao did not die or at the very least show signs of terrible discomfort at his near kiss with the Grim. Hell, there's probably a mummy underneath his clothes. While theoretically 'shooting' does not equate to 'killing', it was still strange, because usually if you shoot, you should shoot to kill. It's also unfortunate we did not get to see how Mao escaped or dealt with the police. Another discrepancy.
Still, it was pretty good, keeping me on the edge of my seat. Humor wasn't forgotten as well on the part of Lloyd too. And there was the revelation of Genbu's death at Suzaku's hands as well as his reactions in the flashback as he walked with the Lamperouges through the field of corpses. Nothing less than an 8 for me.
>> It's weird how some people decide et cetera
Spare me your conjecture based 'spare mes'. No one questions the fact that the title is titled so that Nanally is the one whom the episode revolves on, not necessarily what it concentrates on. However, taking into account all that has happened before this, it was unnecessarily secretive to completely override her feelings concerning why a gun-toting, bomb-wielding, completely off his rocker loonbag is after her precious brother.
Naturally they're going to reveal what she thinks one day, but I'd have preferred more exposition on her thoughts now, especially when the meat of the episode was quite poor to what it could have been.
Vallen Chaos Valiant
2007-02-11, 06:30
>> It's weird how some people decide et cetera
Spare me your conjecture based 'spare mes'. No one questions the fact that the title is titled so that Nanally is the one whom the episode revolves on, not necessarily what it concentrates on. However, taking into account all that has happened before this, it was unnecessarily secretive to completely override her feelings concerning why a gun-toting, bomb-wielding, completely off his rocker loonbag is after her precious brother.
You are assuming she actually was able to comprehend everything that happened; she is blind, remember?
This isn't the first time Lulu lied to her. It is similar to that time when he didn't tell her that funny smell she detected while being carried was nearby rotting flesh of dead people, or the "grand house" they were supposedly living in was a derelict storage shed. Lulu is over-protective of her sister, which may or may not be a good thing.
There is a chance Nanally is actually fully aware of her brother's lies, but either way we know she trust her brother in placing her wellbeing first above all.
As for why a gun-toting, bomb-wielding, completely off his rocker loonbag is after her precious brother? I doubt Nanally needed an explanation for that any more than why someone would riddle her mum with bullet-holes. They faked their own deaths, remember?
>> You are assuming [...]
I don't think she comprehended everything, because there is no way she could have. Neither do I take her for an idiot who is not able to comprehend anything.
She heard Suzaku, and I don't remember them actively using volume control during their conversation. It isn't impossible though. Lelouch isn't exactly smooth when his sister is in danger though, so I assume if he tried to comfort her with what he knows to be lies she'd know from his voice that she's up shit-creek.
>> Mum riddled with bullets [...] They faked their own deaths
Politics, and exactly. There's really no reason why such a person should be after Lelouch now, unless you take it she assumed it was because of his "gambling", but then, what would that gambling be?
>> There is a chance Nanally is actually fully aware of her brother's lies
It would be nice, that. Less speculation, more exposition. There was a fine chance for it too.
Owaranai Destiny
2007-02-11, 07:59
>> It's weird how some people decide et cetera
Spare me your conjecture based 'spare mes'. No one questions the fact that the title is titled so that Nanally is the one whom the episode revolves on, not necessarily what it concentrates on. However, taking into account all that has happened before this, it was unnecessarily secretive to completely override her feelings concerning why a gun-toting, bomb-wielding, completely off his rocker loonbag is after her precious brother.
Naturally they're going to reveal what she thinks one day, but I'd have preferred more exposition on her thoughts now, especially when the meat of the episode was quite poor to what it could have been.
That was an almost good try at being funny. If you ever were. :D
As long as this episode shows a different side of Nunally, it's enough. We don't need 'more screentime' just because the title implies that she is the focal point of the episode.
Nunally might not be entirely sure of what's going on, but she can assume, can't she? After the traumatic episode in her earlier days, I suspect she was not in the least surprised. Aside from that, if politics really came into play here, I don't think the successors will take any chances, especially if they actually discovered that Lelouch and Nunally are still alive.
>> That was an almost good try at being funny. If you ever were.
My good man, I'm only funny when I seem to be funny, otherwise I am perfectly serious.
>> We don't need 'more screentime' just because the title implies that she is the focal point of the episode.
I never did say she was the focal point of the episode, but she was the crux on whom the gears turned. That does not necessitate screentime, and certainly not for its own sake*, but it'd help us understand their relationship better. She is all sunflowers now and we never see her doubts, and while I don't think she wants to burden her brother with her doubts, just one unfinished sentence would have shed a lot of light to her. This, being the first occasion of her getting directly involved in Lelouch's little escapades, or their aftermaths, would have provided a fantastic opportunity for it.
* I wouldn't mind it though. Aaaah, sweet, sweet Nanallyyyy...
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