Kanon - 2006 - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Zaris

2007-02-22, 16:36

I guess I was right and wrong.

Nayuki tries hard for Yuuichi this episode. I think it's lovely how they spend time together, at the same time she keeps a respectable distance since she sort of knows how he feels about Ayu disappearing. My heart really warms up to her.

The flashbacks (Nayuki-related ones) are somewhat painful. I really like Nayuki. I can kind of guestimate that something happened to Ayu that would make Yuuichi not want to receive anyone else's sympathy. But what that happening is, we still have no idea. At the very least, the "school" reference is somewhat answered. Ayu can still show up; or maybe she won't. There is no conclusive sign to either outcome. From how we've seen Kanon episodes already, it would seem to lean slightly towards the "she won't" route. But considering that we haven't seen the totality of the Ayu subplot (and if we have, then that's pretty bogus), there may still be more to see.

So Yuuichi remembers something from the bunny (nice mentioning of Mai, btw). I wonder how he feels about it, being somewhat insensitive to you know who even after a confession like that. Now it's his turn to comfort, but unlike her, Yuuichi's mission is completely uphill. Ayu ran off; no certain closure so it wasn't that bad. Love sickness, as we call it. Akiko will make the situation somewhat... taxing.

This is bad timing, I think. What a way to spice up the drama.

Vexx

2007-02-22, 16:37

wow.... um....

As bad as that looks.... the way it played out is probably the only reason she might live. She was smacked by the TOP of the car and it rolled onto her. The top is much more delicate and will crumple (unlike if she'd been smacked by the front or thrown under the vehicle).

Okay.... I'm a sad puppy ... bad things happening to happy good people.

Fortunately, I knew it was coming but stilll ...

Sai the Dreamer

2007-02-22, 16:48

Holy hell. o_o; That's all I can say, just... wow. That last scene really came out of nowhere. >_>;

OmegaPhlare

2007-02-22, 17:27

Holy fizzucks! Such responses and the fansub isn't out yet. Hopefully I can can wait for this one. *posts response and closes browser to avoid spoiler tempations*.

Raniie

2007-02-22, 19:01

Guys, remember to properly label your spoiler tags. Some of you just hiding it and not labeling doesn't really help to know what's inside the spoiler tag.

I know it's cruel, but....that scene looks hilarious for all the wrong reasons :heh:

It's like Meet Joe Black when Brad Pitt gets randomly blindsided by a van.

I know what you mean there.

It's funny because Akiko disappears upon impact. If they were to animate the whole thing... I'd say she would've flew onto the other car or landed smack down onto the ground rolling with the car. There's just something about the car psychic impact that doesn't seem right, but oh well, this is anime after all.

And now it begins, main focus on Nayuki for the remaining episodes. It's about time for all you Nayuki fans, eh? XD

panzerfan

2007-02-22, 20:02

The car isn't all that fast actually. Under winter condition, depending on the road condition, Akiko might have received a lessened impact from that. I don't think KyoAni is interested in rendering a ragdoll physic model to show the impact.
The next episode will definitely be one to watch. I don't know if the final wish will be invoked...

The KyoAni handling of this part of the story is pretty good. I am waiting to see how the next episode will unfold itself though.

Zaris

2007-02-22, 20:44

And now it begins, main focus on Nayuki for the remaining episodes. It's about time for all you Nayuki fans, eh? XD

What the!? Nooooo, I highly doubt we've seen the last of Ayu. For one thing, if that WAS the end back in episode 20, it offered extremely ambiguous closure. She disappeared without telling us what was the matter with things. What made Yuuichi cry seven years ago? Where's her father gone? At what point in time did Yuuichi give her the red hairpiece? None of them we've seen, and I don't believe KyoAni would be so negligant to leave those questions unanswered.

Until I saw this episode, my expectation of switching to the Nayuki arc before completing Ayu's was wanning. But as it turned out, I was right! And if you fathom my previous paragraph, you'll see that who Yuuichi "ends up with" is still highly questionable. Now don't get me wrong! I think both Ayu and Nayuki are great characters who have gotten an appropriate amount of screentime and development. At this point, it doesn't matter to me who Yuuichi ends up with (assuming he ends up with anyone at all); I simply believe that he carries a stronger attachment to his cousin than to Ayu based on what we have seen up to this point. I could go on about this point all day but I'll save it for later.

So in short, there's no certainty. = P

Yeah, that disappearance was a little odd. I had my eye totally focused on her and POOF. Of course, don't get mistaken. She was hit, panned, pwned. It is an animation error. Perhaps it would've been more effective to simply cut to blackness or cut to the school the split second, the out-of-control car was heading Akiko's direction...

There are other drawing errors with this episode too, but they're not as worth mentioning as this. But seriously, yeah. That moment came out of the blue.

I don't think Akiko's going to die. I had a conversation with an anime friend of mine on IRC just recently and I said that KyoAni doesn't make anybody die in Kanon. Look at Sayuri. All those bumps and the blood but she's still okay! Then he points out Shiori and Makoto, and I say, "Shiori's death is inconclusive... but you're right about Makoto." So you would think that if the producers can kill Makoto, they can most certainly kill off Akiko. But don't you also agree with me when I say this kind of thing seems a little too unexpected?

People talked about how Akiko's always warning Nayuki to watch out for cars. She even warns her in episode one. And look! Akiko eats her word. What's up with that? In addition, to kill someone due to something as general or as common as a car accident doesn't seem very Kanon. Isn't the entire Kanon story about miracles and the surreal? Surely, the makers of the story used it as a plot device, to pit Nayuki and Yuuichi with some dramatic time alone, and would come up with far better means to cut one's life short.

The KyoAni handling of this part of the story is pretty good. I am waiting to see how the next episode will unfold itself though.

I dunno, man! These kind of cliffhangers don't make me want to watch the next episode. Somewhere in the back of my mind, my brain tells me it is better to not know than to know a bad outcome. I'm sure others have felt this way too. = P

But alas, we must watch on!

Leo_Otaku

2007-02-22, 20:48

I i have to say is duuuuude wasn't excepting it like that. Very highly awesome job ^-^

velocity7

2007-02-22, 21:56

Oh boy, KyoAni had to do it, huh. Nayuki Mental Breakdown mode in 3... 2... 1...

Codine

2007-02-22, 22:38

Wow this episode will probably bring up a lot of memories about KGNE...ohh those sleepless nights :(

Skane

2007-02-22, 22:46

Looking forward to seeing on how KyoAni handles Nayuki's subsequent actions in light of what happened at the end of Ep21, since this has not been touched upon properly/fully in any other prior adaptation( manga or anime).

Will Nayuki's arc be shafted yet again? Will Nayuki's loyal fans break down sobbing from lack of attention yet again? Can KyoAni break the mindset that Nayuki's arc is impossible to show in a multi-path adaptation? Or will they succumb to the easy path( aka, nice knowing you, Nayuki, but it's time to return to Route Ayu-chan) and cause more Nayuki-fans to commit seppuku?

What indeed.

monir

2007-02-22, 23:29

Will Nayuki's arc be shafted yet again? Will Nayuki's loyal fans break down sobbing from lack of attention yet again?
I've prepared my box of tissues ready. I also have a brown paper bag, just in case I need to breathe in and out. I also intend to use the bag to speak obscenities to every responsible parties that may take part in any injustice done to Nayuki.

Sushi-Y

2007-02-23, 01:14

What the!? Nooooo, I highly doubt we've seen the last of Ayu.
Well, that depends on what Kyoani wants to do with the finale. But it's likely she'll make a comeback in the future (from anime's point of view).

Yuuichi is starting to piece all his lost memories back together now, and it won't be long before we realize what happened 7 years ago. Everything will be explained in due time. For now though, it's Yuuichi's turn to take care of Nayuki.

This episode served a double role, it served as a buffer to seperate the events that happened in 20 with the event that happened at the end of this episode, while setting the story up for Nayuki's route. So far, Kyoani's dual-route approach here is working well. ( ・ω・ )GJ

Will Nayuki's arc be shafted yet again? Will Nayuki's loyal fans break down sobbing from lack of attention yet again? Can KyoAni break the mindset that Nayuki's arc is impossible to show in a multi-path adaptation? Or will they succumb to the easy path( aka, nice knowing you, Nayuki, but it's time to return to Route Ayu-chan) and cause more Nayuki-fans to commit seppuku?
It's not so much that Nayuki's route is being shafted, but more like Nayuki herself is being shafted. At least she and Yuuichi were together during her route in the game. Here she's really looking like a tragic heroine with nothing but crappy things happening to her all her life. :heh:... :(

The easy path is pretty much out of the question now, with what happened to Akiko-san in this episode. Unless Kyoani intends on bending Nayuki's route greatly, which I don't see them doing, we're going to see Nayuki's route to the end. Don't ask me what they're going to do with Yuuichi's response to Nayuki's feelings though.

Well, one possible "you're happy, I'm happy, everyone's happy" ending comes to mind now. But if pulled off the wrong way, it would look real cheap...

I'm surprised Yuuichi still managed to maintain his sanity, actually, considering all the stuff that has happened to him so far.

Oh yeah, this week's favorite shot:
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/7458/kanon315322135441123002rc2.th.jpg (http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kanon315322135441123002rc2.jpg)

CrowKenobi

2007-02-23, 01:23

Just watched the raw... wow! So much from so little. Yuuichi starting to break through his mental block, Nayuki being the trooper trying to keep his spirits up, finding what was missing, and on top of all that... BAM! :eek:

Waiting for the sub to find out what was said, but that didn't stop me from giving this ep a '10.' :D

It's going to be a looooooooong week... >.<

:cool:

Maritime

2007-02-23, 01:27

Must...resist...spoilers!

houkoholic

2007-02-23, 02:46

One thing that is already better in this edition of the Nayuki story compared with the other adaptation is the angle of approach is different (but again, faithful to the game) - Yuuichi actually has to confront his feelings towards Nayuki and his negelectance of her and her feelings for all those years, which none of the other adaptation did.

Also the last scene was stunningly executed, as Yuuichi spaces-out in class and slowly recalls the incident of 7 years ago and then his fasical expression changes, and as he turns to look at Nayuki then *bam*. Perfect timing.

phelan_kell

2007-02-23, 03:57

This episode came out with a bunch of answers to any questions some of the viewers might have had about Ayu pretty quickly (though some of us may have thought the answers were pretty obvious).

As a first time viewer and not having played the game or anything, I still match the little snow bunnies more with Mai than Nayuki...oh well, they're both easy my favorite characters in this series.

This episode is really a heartbreaker at the end though...I mean, wow. Regardless of Akiko just going *poof* which is sort of awkward, that was quite unexpected. I'm really glad I've stayed with the series, which seemed to start off slow but picked up really, really fast. Hopefully KyoAni really doesn't kill off Akiko...

I really like Nayuki's character in this, though. Not overbearingly sympathetic, and still retaining much of her normal characteristics.

I find it amusing how many viewers in here in the US found Nayuki's emotions towards Yuuichi to be wrong, whereas in Japan that isn't necessarily the case.

Oh well...like someone said earlier, this is gonna be a heck of a long week waiting for 22.

Okay, time to stop rambling on like some drunken fool..

panzerfan

2007-02-23, 04:09

I hate saying it but... the last part of today's episode actually made me think of a mission briefing from video games... with how that teacher presents his information and how the scene switches back and forth.

DannyCat

2007-02-23, 04:09

I don't think Akiko's going to die. I had a conversation with an anime friend of mine on IRC just recently and I said that KyoAni doesn't make anybody die in Kanon. Look at Sayuri. All those bumps and the blood but she's still okay! Then he points out Shiori and Makoto, and I say, "Shiori's death is inconclusive... but you're right about Makoto." So you would think that if the producers can kill Makoto, they can most certainly kill off Akiko. But don't you also agree with me when I say this kind of thing seems a little too unexpected?

I still can't think of Makoto's death as an actual killing-her-off death, though. She simply vanishes, and then is shown resurrected and asleep next to Piro in the springtime at the end of the episode. Yeah, going by what Amano said, it would mean she died, but how would Amano know for sure that vanishing Obi-Wan-style means dead? (come to think of it, if that WERE the case, then Ayu just died at the end of episode 20?)

Ascaloth

2007-02-23, 06:25

My reaction => OH HOLY SHI- :twitch:

That.....was.....

Argh. Those subs better come out soon.

Sai the Dreamer

2007-02-23, 07:42

Not that I'm complaining... but it's weird, usually at least one of the subs is out by now. o.O Oh well, I can wait. :heh:

On another note, if you couldn't hold off (like me), Memento's post (http://www.designchronicle.com/memento/archives/kanon_ep21.html) should help you understand the ep better.

guuchan

2007-02-23, 11:49

Nice transition to the "working on homework together" scenario, with the reason of Nayuki trying to cheer U1 up. And they made Kitagawa somehow useful once again, even though he's still a passerby character to me. :heh:

Seems like the memories from 7 years ago are gradually coming back to U1, which means we're reaching the climax. The last 5 episodes will be interesting to watch.

What the!? Nooooo, I highly doubt we've seen the last of Ayu. For one thing, if that WAS the end back in episode 20, it offered extremely ambiguous closure. She disappeared without telling us what was the matter with things. What made Yuuichi cry seven years ago? Where's her father gone? At what point in time did Yuuichi give her the red hairpiece? None of them we've seen, and I don't believe KyoAni would be so negligant to leave those questions unanswered.

No worries. May Ayu be the "final heroine" or not, I'm 200% sure she will appear again in the series. Without her, Kanon is simply not Kanon anymore.

Skyfall

2007-02-23, 13:48

OMGWTFBBQ <insert more inarticulate syllables and 1337 speak>

A perfect 11/10 from me.

Definitely one of the best episodes, with lots of revelations coming home.

Looks like Yuuichi is regaining his memories... i bet soon we will get to see what happened to Ayu in past.

And would you look at that - it only took for all the other girls to be missing for Yuuichi to notice Nayuki :eyespin:

The way Yuuichi treated Nayuki in past was quite mean (what else is new) ... i liked how he recalled what happened with the snow bunny, but before he got to say anything to Nayuki the teacher came in and dumped the news about Akiko on them.

So, light has been shed about the whole school business and Ayu's lost item *gasp, its the doll...shocking, isn't it ?* has been found ... and it looks like we have one wish left ... no doubt it is going to be very important.

Any one want to bet 10$ that Nayuki changed her hairstyle because Yuuichi said something mean about it ? I wouldn't be surprised if Yuuichi recalls that as well the next ep.

Something tells me that the realization about how he has been mistreating Nayuki is about to hit home... this will raise his guilt levels no doubt... i wonder how that is going to come in to play, especially considering that Nayuki is going to have a very hard time next ep. I wonder if we will get to see an angsty Nayuki say a thing or two to Yuuichi.

Certainly looks like it, since she tells Yuuichi to get out and leave her alone.

Damn, Nayuki needs some love T.T She is one of those characters you can not help but feel sorry for them. Heck, she can't even pet a cat because of her allergy T.T

The crash left me stunned for a couple of seconds i think... shocking indeed.

Theoretically the chances for a Nayuki ending went up this ep.... oh, don't mind me - just daydreaming here :p I am 99.9% certain it is Ayu or bust.

This is going to be a looong week ....

CrowKenobi

2007-02-23, 14:24

Edit: The forum is hiccupping... my post should be after Kyuusai's. :eyespin:

For those wondering about Yuuichi's breakdown, well... here's some of it. The looks he drew from Kitagawa and Nayuki were hard to take, but really get the point across. Kitagawa finding the jar worked very well, I think. Being KyoAni, I'm sure it's probably how it happened in the game, too, but can any one confirm that?

I was not happy with the last scene. I knew it was coming, but even if I hadn't, I would have known before it happened. Well, I suppose the mood has to be built, but the lead-up is hard. My biggest beef is the same as most others: She disappears upon the impact! That was so noticable as to be distracting, and was the wrong time for glitches like that.

I need a nap... this is hard. :(Well, Kitagawa did find the jar in 2k2, so I'm guessing that happened in the game as well. :)

As to the accident, I'm thinking that when Akiko "disappeared" is just milliseconds before a jump-cut back to the school should've happened but the timing was off. :p

:cool:

Shiroth

2007-02-23, 14:52

The Nayuki flashback was heart destroying to watch. Mainly because you know how its going to end.. how i love those pigtails. I liked how they had the news being told while we got to see the accident.. but what the hell? That car crash was insane. My Akiko... ;____;

Anyway, a nice episode full of Nayuki. Next week seems to be the same, but.. you know. ;_;

Kyuusai

2007-02-23, 15:18

This episode is like being kicked in the shin repeatedly, only to be followed by some one driving a baseball bat to the stomach.

I know this is just the story as it happens, but it doesn't mean I'm any less sick and tired of Nayuki being beat upon. My protective instincts are flaring, but it's not real, which means there is no one to hug and no one to hit.

As well, although I know they're intertwined, most of Nayuki's scenes lost their power by being juxtaposed with scenes about or involving Ayu. Putting their "May I use your gift?" scenes so close was very nice, though.

For those wondering about Yuuichi's breakdown, well... here's some of it. The looks he drew from Kitagawa and Nayuki were hard to take, but really get the point across. Kitagawa finding the jar worked very well, I think. Being KyoAni, I'm sure it's probably how it happened in the game, too, but can any one confirm that?

I was not happy with the last scene. I knew it was coming, but even if I hadn't, I would have known before it happened. Well, I suppose the mood has to be built, but the lead-up is hard. My biggest beef is the same as most others: She disappears upon the impact! That was so noticable as to be distracting, and was the wrong time for glitches like that.

I need a nap... this is hard. :(

Avisch

2007-02-23, 15:33

Episode 21 is great and.....GODLY!

We finally got some good Nayuki moments. This episode really made me reflect on how some series are driven by characters, some series are driven by the world the series takes place in. Kanon is great because it's world doesn't need to driven by the world because the world and atmosphere are "normal and supernatural" so to speak. Yuuichi didn't find Ayu but Nayuki is relaly giving her encouragement to helping find Ayu. There was a bit of importance to Mai's snowbunnies (apparently Nayuki made them too) and I wonder what their metaphorical statement is or maybe their statement is given in itself.

For some reason I really liked Jun (Kaori's friend who jokes around with Yuuichi) ever since he stood up for Mai it is easy to see that he is reliable. He helps Yuuichi and Nayuki find the "lost item" the angel keychain.

There was 3 flashbacks in this episode but the last one made the episode great. It was sort of obvious what would happen (they flashed it's events 2+ times in the episode) but it got through well. Yuuichi (upset...due to something) upsets Nayuki (after she had declared her love for him) by destroying her snowbunny. That's Sad....

This series might be only 24episodes (since episode 23's title is "finale") implying that the last episode may be some sort of recap (please no).
Even though original reports claimed it would be 26.

It doesn't matter regardless of length I belive that my satisfaction is secure.[/quote]

toxic_trance

2007-02-23, 16:11

A SIMPLY MIND BLOWING EPISODE...i have to hand it to KyoAni..they can make u shocked even if u have seen Kanon a million times. Very nicely made episode, cause i feel that even with nothing said by Nayuki, her sadness was conveyed very beautifully. Yuichi realising his fault was shown very well too. I cant find any error or flaw in this mistake screenplay wise.

This episode was like a perfect Sonata conducted by the brilliant conductor we all call KyoAni and whom the world calls Kyoto Animation.

Forget heart patients..the last scene was too much for even Superman, i think. But Akiko-san'a accident was made well none the less. I think the intensity of the accident makes the viewers feel more for Nayuki

Dani Maxwell

2007-02-23, 16:45

Ah, I have a question... I've been reading around how many eps. Kanon will be, and people've been saying it will end on 23 or 24, and someone else said that due the official date of the last eps, it'll be 26... after watching the 21, it really seems it may end on 23-24... but for some reason I hope it'll be 26 @_@

So, does anyone knows when will it end?

Ascaloth

2007-02-23, 17:03

Watched the episode. KyoAni's robbed me of my breath well after the ED and the preview had ended. Akiko-san......

Apart from that, this is one of the more well-paced episodes in recent weeks, and it also was a welcome change of pace from the emotion-driven past several episodes. 9/10 for me, but only because it's not as heavy on the story as previous episodes, and partly so that I can start dishing out the perfect 10s later, starting from as early as next episode from the looks of things.

The few nitpicks I had:

1) One scene it's the start of school, the very next, Yuuichi and Nayuki and Kitagawa were digging around in the mountain. No in-between. A bit unsettling, if you ask me.

2) I know KyoAni's gods of animation, but there can be too much of a good thing sometimes. I mean, at the end of the "doing homework together" scene when Nayuki's passed out on the floor, when she turned onto her back and went "Nyoo", I wasn't looking at her face, if you get my meaning. :heh:

With teasers like that, who needs fanservice? :heh:

Deathkillz

2007-02-23, 17:51

being a first time newbie to kanon i have to say that i was caught off guard...

reaction:
(before the scene) "no...no...it cant be..."
(after the scene) *gets out a cutter* "ill join you!!!" :sad:

honestly its was that bad >.<
that scene was a bit overwhelming...i didnt expect to see akiko to disappear in a flash...it was painful to watch and the after taste was just soul destroying (i even changed my msn pic to akiko as a tribute) ~

after all that preaching about cars its just plain ironic that she gets smacked :(

okey other points in this ep ~ yuuichi's memories are returning for sure ~ that nayuki scene...christ i feel sorry for her :( yep she confessed...but at the wrong time ~ as i speculated in the other thread yuuichi's mood might have been due to ayu having that accident at that time...shocker!!

tho i can understand yuuichi's feelings its still harsh on nayuki...and after all this time she is still crying...inside her heart :sad:

and with the doll found...what will happen next? :eyespin:

i refuse to believe that akiko is dead unless i see her coffin!!! T_T

sakuravs

2007-02-23, 17:56

It's unbelievable the way they draw Akiko-san involved in that accident. How can one be able to live after being crashed into by a car like that? So tragic....
Now only with Mai's power will Akiko be recovered, but will that happen, though? still have to wait to see.
Anyway, If I'm in the position of Yuuichi in the next episode, I'll do everything for Nayuki to make her happy, including that thing.

Aradni

2007-02-23, 19:07

I swear it must've been a conspiracy.:uhoh: The car's crashing together at that exact moment.:twitch:

Great episode, the flashback with the snow bunny was done perfectly. Poor Nayuki. The bunny hitting the ground was like a gunshot.

LCeh

2007-02-23, 19:23

Wow, what an episode.

I am really glad that they finally are starting to do Nayuki some justice. It feels like it's been forever, but finally, for the first time the focus is on her. I really liked the way KyoAni planned it though, they made Nayuki watch Yuuichi interact with all these girls, and this goes well with what happened 7 years ago, with Nayuki secretly liking Yuuichi while he was liking another person.

I am sure we haven't seen the end of Ayu, since there are still a few untied knots. But the focus for now will be entirely on Nayuki, and I am hoping that we will have more time for 1 on 1 interaction between Yuuichi and Nayuki, since this is basically what the series has been lacking. Yuuichi had to deal with so many girls before, that he didn't really have the time to just take things slowly with one of them.

And my personal wish is that Akiko-san survives. It would be really sad to see her go midway through the series.

FatPianoBoy

2007-02-23, 19:27

LCeh

2007-02-23, 19:34

*Horrible scene of Akiko being crushed by car*
"Minase, Aizawa - your mother's been involved in a car accident."
:twitch:
*Queue happy running Ayu*
:eyebrow:

Is it just me, or was that one of the worst scene changes ever? :heh:

Man, I wish I hadn't been spoiled on that. The surprise factor of the scene was at maximum. Very well done.

A 9 for that weird scene change and feeling just a tad bit draggy.

This is what a poster on another board said. :heh:

ill say it again, the ending theme which is TOTALLY out of place in every episode is ONLY there to prevent people from slitting their wrists or jumping off a tall building after each episode

Chaos2Frozen

2007-02-23, 19:37

^
Meh, worked so far...

If not people will be sueing KyoAni for 'Assisted Suicide'... :heh: (Dilbert joke... Nvm...)

Pakxenon

2007-02-23, 19:51

Absolutely amazing episode. I was spoiled silly with the repeats of BMW jokes, but what really got me in that scene was the prespective (cars came out of nowhere) and the IMPACT of the crash, which, whether you're spoiled or not or predicted, will be of big shock value.

Of course, that was not the best scene this episode. I can't choose a favourite, but this episode was packed with information, FANSERVICE (WOW Nayuki is going full moe mode in this episode, and they feel FRESH! {unlike Ayu and the other girls, whom I've had to endure "taiyaki" for 21 episodes now...}), and flashbacks (that also put my awkwardness with Ayu at more ease now). The connections with the other girls are not to be forgotten! The transition from the funny phase to the dramatic phase is completed in this episode, too. Cliffhanger and preview has me banging my desk for next week's episode. 10/10.

Meophist

2007-02-23, 19:54

ill say it again, the ending theme which is TOTALLY out of place in every episode is ONLY there to prevent people from slitting their wrists or jumping off a tall building after each episodeI disagree, it wasn't out of place in the last Makoto episode.

Richard 23

2007-02-23, 20:29

Man, Akikko was squashed like a bug. I think the "miracle" is that she survived at all. Considering the wishes that doll was able to grant so far, "(don't you) forget about me" and "let's go to a tree lined forest" don't even come close to "save the cute mother who got squashed by a car."

Kanon 2002 wasn't nearly the snuff film that Kanon 2006 has become! I mean, really. That car totally glomped on Akikko. I don't know too many people who survive after such a brutal glomping. Hell, I don't know any! Because they do not exist!

A great episode that hurried through story points without feeling entirely rushed. Jun saves the day again, sort of, just like in the previous series. Good for him. This time he seems much more human than your typical anime "good friend."

More flashbacks than you can shake a stick at. Plenty of exposition. Plenty of tears. Plenty of angst. I'd say KyoAni is performing like Nayuki did in her race earlier in the series. They're going to win by a breast. Or two! They are way out in front of Toei.

I second an earlier poster who wondered out loud if this series is 24 or 26. It feels like 24. I sincerely hope there are no recrap episodes. I don't have the money for a baseball bat and a ticket to Japan at this time to explain to KyoAni that good is good and doesn't involve recapping. Watch out for otaku yukuzas KyoAni if you blow this series at the very end!

Of course they won't do that. Just wanted to make sure.

Meophist

2007-02-23, 20:37

I just watched the episode again, and it, for some reason, looks alot better than other episodes for some reason. Maybe it's just the encoding, but the colours look nicer to me.

Kyuusai

2007-02-23, 21:02

Normally, KyoAni has mixed the different stories so that each of the compliments the other, with the entire episode building emotion even when jumping across storylines. I didn't find that to be the case here, myself. Going back and watching only the Nayuki scenes, they had a lot more impact.

...I couldn't watch it all, though. :(

DanielSong39

2007-02-23, 22:21

The strongest episode in the series to date. This was the kind of stuff I was hoping and waiting for from the start of the show.

Some of the key factors that made this episode stand out compared to the others:

- A strong theme.

Feel free to disagree with me on this one, but I felt the "family" theme was by far the strongest one in the series, and the one I could best identify with. Childhood friends are usually forgotten, and friendships that arise out of dramatic situations tend to fizzle out once the matter is resolved - but family ties run much deeper. Excellent insight on this matter, and I hope they run with this theme for the remainder of the series.

- Good character development and interactions.

Nayuki proves to be much more useful than the other girls, and turns out to be more than the so-called "damsel in distress" after all. She is more capable, assertive, and supportive than any of the other girls - and there isn't a close second. I'm just glad that we got to see her true strength before the end of the series.

Another big plus is the interaction between Yuuichi and Nayuki throughout the episode, and between the two and Jun. Much more smooth and natural this time around, with no one character utterly dominating the proceedings.

- Believable course of events.

Nayuki seems to be mostly bummed out by Ayu's disappearance; "jealousy" barely registers a blip on the radar screen. Most of her actions have the sisterly vibe to it. Yuuichi finally seems to realize that family trumps a childhood friend or even a current girlfriend. And Akiko's actions are appropriate throughout the episode.

So, where does the show go from here?

KyoAni opened up an alternate path, which frankly, I believe has the basis for a much stronger ending. As much as they have pushed Ayu, leaving her as the emphasis would be a mistake, in my opinion. This doesn't mean Yuuichi X Ayu would ruin the series - but I would like to see Yuuichi realize that Akiko and Nayuki are the most important people in his life. Heck, even his relationship with Ayu was heavily dependent on their support.

In any case, I think KyoAni has things rolling along in the right direction, and I hope they keep going down this path in 22-24. This is where I believe they can fix the fatal error in the Toei series - when Yuuichi basically ignored Nayuki AND Akiko, preferring to mope over Ayu instead. I have faith that KyoAni will not repeat the same mistake.

Skane

2007-02-23, 22:43

Random Thoughts on Kanon(2006) Ep21
---- ----

Why is it that when it comes to girls like Nayuki, Mai and Makoto; the pacing seems so wonderful, so... natural? But when it comes to Shiori and Ayu, the pacing can go whack at times?

The implied preference even shows in the amount of screentime that they get. Innate favouritism from KyoAni? Ja, who knows? :D
.
Sometimes I get the feeling that KyoAni is trying to wave their family jewels at their fellow competitors whenever I watch a scene that involves animated water.

"Look at us! We got such good budget control that we can afford to animated this jazz while you guys struggle to animated normal stuff."
.
The ugly past involving Nayuki finally starts to fully reveal itself. By the time this arc is done, some of you might be asking yourselves on why would Nayuki want to hook up with Yuuichi. :heh:

Nayuki's commenting to herself about Yuuichi's preference for Ayu was just bitterly tender.
.
It will have already dawned upon the observant, but notice how Nayuki is starting to become much more active than before. Why? ;)
.
I had a mild mind-shock when Nayuki replied to Akiko's comment about the need to support one's family. Did Horie Yue just voice Nayuki at that moment or something? Nayuki sounded like Ayu at that point.
.
Did anybody else raise an eyebrow when Nayuki sprawled flat on her back and displayed her goods( with motion no less) to Yuuichi? Did those same eyebrows raise even higher when Yuuichi displayed zero reaction to such a sight?
.
Nayuki's reaction to the blanket was priceless...
.
Angel Doll!
Two Promises!
One Left...
*ominous BGM*
.
I swear that the pupils( not the eyeballs, but the pupils) for Kid-Ayu and Kid-Yuuichi expanded in this episode. It made them look positively alien at times. I'm all for expressive eyes, but damn... there has to be a limit to what you can do.
.
Usagi-san! Usagi-san! Bonus points for referring back to Mai... but DAMN IT! I want actual appearances by her. :p She better be around for the finale... her story can still be connected to the end events very closely. I mean heck, now that Akiko is in the hospital, go say hi or something to her, along with Shiori and Sayuri.

PLEEEEASE!

Besides, I'm curious to hear what Oracle-Mai has to say about Nayuki. :p

"That girl... she's too good for you."
.
For a brief moment there, I thought Jun stomped all over the snow-bunny. :heh: I would have found it hilarious, but I guess it would have spoiled the mood. :heh:
.
Yuuichi's recollection of his treatment of Nayuki's confession was nicely done. :)
.
Akiko's accident was brutal, even though I knew it was going to happen. With this scene resolved, that leaves ONE more scene I am looking forward to in Kanon(2006).

It has been a long time, but I am willing to give 10/10 for this episode. There were some minor nits, but they are petty enough for me to overlook them. The pacing was so much better in this episode, and the transitions were much better done. The drama and mood was beautiful.

Cheers.

New/Old

2007-02-23, 22:46

I realize a few have seen this, but it was too eerie not to place it here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9kQwfc4WLo
Similarities are not hard to find, but they are equally tragic... Devestatingly tragic...

If this is indeed violation of the rules, I will withdraw it immediately.

eplipswich

2007-02-23, 23:10

Well....
Akiko's accident is definitely a real shocker, even though i was kinda expecting something bad like this to happen at the end. I mean...she wasn't just knocked down by a car, but also kinda flattened by a car....Imagine if Nayuki was to see this right in front of her eyes....she'll go completely insane...more than what she would feel in the episode preview

That said, this is a great episode. The series has come to the really sad and emotional era that jokes here are not really gonna be funny anymore....the conspiracy of Ayu's disappearance and the fatal blow on Nayuki's heart...Yuiichi is definitely suffering a lot right now...poor girls and Yuiichi...KyoAni has definitely done well in portraying this emotional and sad period of time on this episode....really sad...would rate it 10/10

Sorrow-K

2007-02-23, 23:12

I was surprised at how explicit KyoAni was with the handling of the car accident.I knew it was coming, but it was so horrific that it still shocked me.

Not much else to say on this ep, except that it's done everything right. This is the meat and bones stuff now, and it almost goes without saying that the next few episodes are going to be big. If my eyes are right, even the animation has picked up a notch in the last few eps. As someone else said, with a cliffhanger ending like that, this coming week is going to be a long one.

-Ajax-

2007-02-23, 23:13

My Expression by the end of the episode:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y259/Cavalier_beo/HarimaWTF.jpg

mugener

2007-02-23, 23:28

we all know that the car roof is actually pretty soft and will change
it's shape when something hit upon.

So I don't see why need to worry, since Akiko is under that black car,
I think she won't hurt that much. :)

-Ajax-

2007-02-23, 23:50

I don't care what anyone says, she got hit with a damn car and it was flying pretty damn fast.

She got hurt. AGH!

FatPianoBoy

2007-02-23, 23:52

The ugly past involving Nayuki finally starts to fully reveal itself. By the time this arc is done, some of you might be asking yourselves on why would Nayuki want to hook up with Yuuichi. :heh:

Nayuki the masochist? :p

It will have already dawned upon the observant, but notice how Nayuki is starting to become much more active than before. Why? ;)

Because her main competition is now out of the picture :heh:

Did anybody else raise an eyebrow when Nayuki sprawled flat on her back and displayed her goods( with motion no less) to Yuuichi? Did those same eyebrows raise even higher when Yuuichi displayed zero reaction to such a sight?

I raised an eyebrow to Nayuki very blatantly (and probably deliberately) displaying her race-winning attributes, but it didn't strike me as weird that Yuuichi didn't pay any attention. He's a very focused person, and Nayuki is just simply not in focus :uhoh:

Nayuki's reaction to the blanket was priceless...

She's turning up the moe trying to woo Yuuichi. She's been doing it since he got there with the sleepyness, strawberry jam, and her cutegasms over the cat ;)

puzk

2007-02-23, 23:52

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9167/1172175073374zc2.th.jpg (http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9167/1172175073374zc2.jpg)
I don't have an account at youtube, but someone at 4chan posted this link which shows a very similar crash.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAOCjXGINLM

Just a few scences before that I said to myself, 'how is the accident scene going to turn out?' as I was watching that scene.

Funny thing is that I watched that youtube crash scene before, and I thought it looked similar, maybe KyoAni modelled the accident after this video.

superzombie23

2007-02-23, 23:52

I don't care what anyone says, she got hit with a damn car and it was flying pretty damn fast.

She got hurt. AGH!

:heh: I laughed the first time I saw it along with a "WTF!!" The director could have done a better job of making the crash scene more serious looking instead of it being so random/funny, unless that's the way it's done in the original story.

-Ajax-

2007-02-24, 00:06

Just a few scences before that I said to myself, 'how is the accident scene going to turn out?' as I was watching that scene.

Funny thing is that I watched that youtube crash scene before, and I thought it looked similar, maybe KyoAni modelled the accident after this video.

Ooh now i can see the terrible tragedy frame by frame :eyespin:

:heh: I laughed the first time I saw it along with a "WTF!!" The director could have done a better job of making the crash scene more serious looking instead of it being so random/funny, unless that's the way it's done in the original story.

The picture of Harima i posted earlier matched my expression of the crash, lol, i had a feeling it would be a car accident when i saw a comment in another forum say "poor Akiko".

Skane

2007-02-24, 00:16

I will never understand why some people want to see more gore in the car-accident scene. :p Focus people. The accident is going to be a catalyst. It is not the main point of Nayuki's arc.

KyoAni could have gone all Hollywood on us and show us the accident in slow-mo and with more jazz, but why on earth would they want to do that? The focus on that chain of events was Nayuki's reaction to it, not Akiko's accident. Making the accident too 'fancy' would have destroyed the balance of plot importance.

Anyway, I would like to add that I like the symbolism of the strawberry cake. As I mentioned elsewhere, it gave the audience an idea of what the aftermath must have looked like. Subtlety at its' finest. A tasteful depiction( no pun intended) of what has just happened, without resorting to cheap thrills.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/285/ep21ichigocakebf9.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ep21ichigocakebf9.jpg)
Cake = Car, Strawberry = Akiko.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5871/ep21mortifiednayukira2.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ep21mortifiednayukira2.jpg)
Background distortion for the win!

Cheers.

Kyuusai

2007-02-24, 00:33

It will have already dawned upon the observant, but notice how Nayuki is starting to become much more active than before. Why? ;)

Hmm, I'd taken note of her increased activity, but I hadn't seen a motive aside from Yuuichi's own increased attention to other girls and recalled memories, all while neglecting her. Perhaps I've missed something important. I should probably be ashamed of myself.

I had a mild mind-shock when Nayuki replied to Akiko's comment about the need to support one's family. Did Horie Yue just voice Nayuki at that moment or something? Nayuki sounded like Ayu at that point.

I didn't notice that, but I DID notice that Nayuki's voice, at several points in the episode, lost some of its "squeak" and took on a smoother, deeper, caring sound. It went well with the art depicting her looks as loving and pained at the same time.

Did anybody else raise an eyebrow when Nayuki sprawled flat on her back and displayed her goods( with motion no less) to Yuuichi? Did those same eyebrows raise even higher when Yuuichi displayed zero reaction to such a sight?

Even though there was almost nothing to it, this was WAY too blatant. Only Ayu's bath-fanservice was less obvious.

Nayuki was exploited shortly before this, too, as she changed her slippers. I didn't catch it the first time, but that was some deft animation, and the ONLY reason for it was to say "ha ha, watch us animate this without up skirt shots".

Skane

2007-02-24, 00:46

~~ Nayuki was exploited shortly before this, too, as she changed her slippers. I didn't catch it the first time, but that was some deft animation, and the ONLY reason for it was to say "ha ha, watch us animate this without up skirt shots".
It's KyoAni... they have no qualms about displaying full nudity and lingeries, but heaven forbid that they animate a panty-shot. :p FMP!, SHnY, Kanon, etc... all attest to this lovable quirk of their's.

Narf.

suguru

2007-02-24, 01:45

I will never understand why some people want to see more gore in the car-accident scene. :p Focus people. The accident is going to be a catalyst. It is not the main point of Nayuki's arc.

KyoAni could have gone all Hollywood on us and show us the accident in slow-mo and with more jazz, but why on earth would they want to do that? The focus on that chain of events was Nayuki's reaction to it, not Akiko's accident. Making the accident too 'fancy' would have destroyed the balance of plot importance.

Anyway, I would like to add that I like the symbolism of the strawberry cake. As I mentioned elsewhere, it gave the audience an idea of what the aftermath must have looked like. Subtlety at its' finest. A tasteful depiction( no pun intended) of what has just happened, without resorting to cheap thrills.

I agree, I'm glad they didn't go with the gore, I felt bad enough for Akiko as it was. It's interesting Akiko stops to help a boy who fell down, and if she hadn't she wouldn't have been in the intersection during the accident. I don't remember that happening in the Toei version, but it somehow made me feel worse for her, she does a favor for someone and in return has 2,000 pounds of metal land on her head. I guess at least it wasn't an SUV.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5871/ep21mortifiednayukira2.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ep21mortifiednayukira2.jpg)
Background distortion for the win!

Cheers.

Good eye, I didn't even notice that, but it's a good effect.

Forever

2007-02-24, 01:53

Go go Nayuki go get some comfort sex from junichi! :heh:

Sorry watched too much kyoshiro to towa no sora...

Damn it man, as nayuki supporter it really hurts to watch this episode. Still not enough for tears though. Looks like I prepared those tissues a bit too early. Next ep perhaps? Nayuki really does not seem to have a chance at all eh... Sobz for my poor Nayuki.

The crash was really overkill. Can Akiko really survive that kind of a crash? Will the Akiko jam give the strength withstand a car crash like this?

eplipswich

2007-02-24, 02:08

Anyway, I would like to add that I like the symbolism of the strawberry cake. As I mentioned elsewhere, it gave the audience an idea of what the aftermath must have looked like. Subtlety at its' finest. A tasteful depiction( no pun intended) of what has just happened, without resorting to cheap thrills.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/285/ep21ichigocakebf9.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ep21ichigocakebf9.jpg)
Cake = Car, Strawberry = Akiko.

You know...now that you show to us the symbolism, there seems to be red stain near the strawberry, which may symbolize the blood ><. Good observation there ^_^

guuchan

2007-02-24, 02:12

I didn't notice that, but I DID notice that Nayuki's voice, at several points in the episode, lost some of its "squeak" and took on a smoother, deeper, caring sound. It went well with the art depicting her looks as loving and pained at the same time.
And that's closer to her real voice. A lot closer. *surprise surprise* :D

Nayuki's voice is definitely cute, but Kouda Mariko's usual voice is actually even slightly deeper than Hocchan's. Both her "cute" and "usual" versions of voice are pleasant to listen to though.

Vexx

2007-02-24, 02:44

The Nayuki scene distortion is a classic Peter Jackson effect --- nicely used here. What a roller coaster episode .... aieee.

AvianWing

2007-02-24, 02:45

Well, I guess Yuuichi's dull reaction (or none at all) to Nayuki falling back and showing her package is the last nail in Nayuki x Yuuichi coffin. He sees her as a sibling, and nothing more.

Anyway, is it sadistic to say that I laughed at the way Akkiko was struck by that car? Seriously, though, the whole scene was leading up to a suspenseful climax. The way the Yuuichi and Nayuki were called out to talk to a teacher, the way he drags on about something deadful happening, the way Akkiko slowly walks over the crossway, and then the MOST awkward accident happen out of the blue.

If this doesn't fly in the face of the car accident, amnesia-inducing drama, I don't know what does (For those of you who doesn't know this cliche, go look up Korean dramas, lifetime dramas, or stuff like that). It certainly feels like it's one of those tragic comedy, where the readers/viewers either get the inside joke and laugh, or remain oblivious and feels pity.

Or maybe it's just me, late in the night, dazed by juice that doesn't have preservatives

Edit: oh, and before that, a kid tripped right by Akkiko in another awkward fashion

Blue Reverie

2007-02-24, 03:13

As a first time viewer I only have one thing to say...

Man, I don't care who you want to "win" in the end, everyone loves Akiko, this was.... horrific, I've spent the whole day depressed and worrying because of that, its gonna be a long week...

:(

Vexx

2007-02-24, 03:17

Pellissier

2007-02-24, 03:47

The episode was good and probably (almost certainly) the one which most provided clues about past happenings, hence the best one for serving the purpose of building a background, or if you prefere, the one putting together the major number of puzzle's pieces until now.

It was nearly perfect until minute 22:00. Note that I already knew of what was going to happen to Akiko, so emotionally the last scene didn't have a great impact on me (while I guess it would have had a terrible one in the opposite case). Despite this though, I was truly disappointed in the way they chose to show that scene. I mean, what is left of subtlety? Was there really a need of showing that scene in that brutal way?
If anything I think at the scene with Sayuri and the demon in episode 14: they showed Sayuri, the demon approaching, Sayuri again and then the cam zoomed away. And that's what I think they should have done in this case.
Everything was fine, from the teacher calling out Yuuichi and Nayuki to Akiko approaching to cross the street, and especially the cake on the ground with that shade of red, but I'm of the opinion that the scene of the crash should have been implied, and not actually showed (maybe a close up of Akiko with a frightened face, then a zoom out, and then the cake, perhaps an ambulance ... that's the way I had handled the scene).

When I saw it, I'd swear I had already seen a similar scene (as for being sudden yet violent) in another situation. Reading I see it was it was mentioned, it was from a teathrical movie.

Well, I can't explain it well, but I think that KyoAni had bad taste this time. The 9 I was going to give to the episode becomes an 8. But I will take it into account when considering the overall rating of the show, since in my eyes they completely failed conceptually, and the scene was so not in tone with the rest of this re-adaptation, and I just found it to be gratuitous, for the sake of spectacularity - so KyoAni not alike. This is coming from one who does watch a lot of horror and thriller movies, so it's not that I'm frightened or someghing. That's not the point. It's just that I'd like the things to be in the context they belong to, exactly as it didn't was here.

Usually I worship KyoAni, but this time I had to say this much. Perhaps, if I was a first time viewer, my reaction would have been different.

Back to the 21, this feeling matured throughout the last episodes, but especially came out with this: I've come to like Nayuki a lot, and to sympathize with her as much. All the girls of Kanon 2006 have had at least a glimpse of happiness, so I really hope that will happen to Nayuki as well (and this despite Ayu was my favourite character in 2002 and still I loved her in 2006).

Another note is that this show is penalized a lot by the "week by week" formula. It is so plently of indepths that it should be marathoned. Also, I regret I have watched 2002 version 3 years ago. It actually ruined my experience with this wonderful piece of art. And still it is not finished.
Enjoy, first time watchers until you can ;)

DanielSong39

2007-02-24, 03:48

The similarity is uncanny...

I can only conclude that the accident scene was ripped directly from that youtube video.

Vexx

2007-02-24, 03:53

We could theorize that they did some googling/youtubing to look for reference material....

@Pell: I definitely am going to marathon this show at the end of the series (like I did the last KyoAni production). Both seem to just flow better as a whole....

Skane

2007-02-24, 04:25

~ It was nearly perfect until minute 22:00. Note that I already knew of what was going to happen to Akiko, so emotionally the last scene didn't have a great impact on me (while I guess it would have had a terrible one in the opposite case). Despite this though, I was truly disappointed in the way they chose to show that scene. I mean, what is left of subtlety? Was there really a need of showing that scene in that brutal way?
If anything I think at the scene with Sayuri and the demon in episode 14: they showed Sayuri, the demon approaching, Sayuri again and then the cam zoomed away. And that's what I think they should have done in this case.
Everything was fine, from the teacher calling out Yuuichi and Nayuki to Akiko approaching to cross the street, and especially the cake on the ground with that shade of red, but I'm of the opinion that the scene of the crash should have been implied, and not actually showed (maybe a close up of Akiko with a frightened face, then a zoom out, and then the cake, perhaps an ambulance ... that's the way I had handled the scene).

When I saw it, I'd swear I had already seen a similar scene (as for being sudden yet violent) in another situation. Reading I see it was it was mentioned, it was from a teathrical movie.

Well, I can't explain it well, but I think that KyoAni had bad taste this time. The 9 I was going to give to the episode becomes an 8. But I will take it into account when considering the overall rating of the show, since in my eyes they completely failed conceptually, and the scene was so not in tone with the rest of this re-adaptation, and I just found it to be gratuitous, for the sake of spectacularity - so KyoAni not alike. This is coming from one who does watch a lot of horror and thriller movies, so it's not that I'm frightened or someghing. That's not the point. It's just that I'd like the things to be in the context they belong to, exactly as it didn't was here.

Usually I worship KyoAni, but this time I had to say this much. Perhaps, if I was a first time viewer, my reaction would have been different. ~
Wow. :heh: I actually hold an opposite opinion of what you feel. I felt that the accident has been rather downplayed.

No frills, no excessiveness, just raw damage. It was a no-holds barred scene, but to their credit, they did not overplay on it.

Personally, I would have cringed if they made 'car-crash scenario take-XX', where we see the Bambi-eyes of the victim before the screen goes black with accompanying sound-effects. Off-hand, I can already think of two, and if I apply more thought to it, probably a couple dozen more...

It can be said that KyoAni chose a more inspired way of showing the accident.

Cheers.

Lilith

2007-02-24, 04:43

Ep 21
I refuse to belive that Ayu's gone. No. Noway. Nu-huh. I was busy, so I've watched episodes 19, 20 and 21 in a row and you can't imagine how I felt. Ayu, the cute girl with mysterious past, the caring girl who always smiles, the one with the best catchphrase ever... simply vanishes.

In the middle of the series I've realized how beautiful and charming Nayuki is and begun to like her. I completely sympathise with her, and she really does deserve the best, but...

In my heart, it has always been and always will be Yuuichi x Ayu.

This episode was perfect as well. My eyebrows hurt because I've spent the whole time frowing and getting teary eyes at Ayu then at Nayuki's past. I'd like to give special appreciation to the director (I think it's him?) for making the awesome last scene:
Yuuichi remembering Nayuki's confession the BAM
Teachers come in and it switches back and forth between them and Akiko.

My heart feels so heavy... I'm really sad.

Deathkillz

2007-02-24, 04:47

well that scene certainly had the shock factor down ~ i had trouble picking my jaw back up from the floor...
for a newbie like me i didnt/wouldnt have expected such a thing to happen so it was pretty surprising that it did ~

i really felt the impact of akiko's accident so much so that im planning on making an AMV to tribute her >.<

theres a clear reason to why akiko "disappeared" in that crash ~ think of the children! >.< they just cant show a flattened body with a pool of blood around ~ not in this kinda way tbh...

well things are definatly in motion now...with yuuichi remembering that a terrible person he is and now this hits his head i only wonder how much more trauma his soul can take :rolleyes:

Skyfall

2007-02-24, 04:50

I have nothing against the crash scene as a first time viewer. To be honest, i saw it coming - and i expected it to be - cut-to-darkness-with-sound-effects (i would not have been surprised if they didn't show the accident at all).... but i can say this was way more shocking. I was not expecting to actually see the whole scene... the impact was there. I think i was stunned for a couple of seconds ... which is not an easy task to achieve.

Pellissier

2007-02-24, 05:03

Wow. :heh: I actually hold an opposite opinion of what you feel. I felt that the accident has been rather downplayed.

Personally, I would have cringed if they made 'car-crash scenario take-XX', where we see the Bambi-eyes of the victim before the screen goes black with accompanying sound-effects. Off-hand, I can already think of two, and if I apply more thought to it, probably a couple dozen more...
Funny how 2 opinions on a 2 seconds footage can differ, isn't it ? :heh:

What can I say, at each one his own. It's not the first time I have opposite views with you on Kanon, though I don't use to write on episode threads much :)

I was expecting a Sayuri-alike resolution, or perhaps the subtleness is what I deem as most undeniably important execution archetype in this Kanon 2006.

By denying their own principles, at my eyes they ruined a potential exceptionally powerful scene. I had shivers on Sayuri's demon attack, really. But I was left cold this time, as it was a mechanical execution because "it had to be done this way to impress people". But that theory bounced on me.
I don't have a counter-proof though, and that's why in that moment I so wished to not have watched 2002...

well that scene certainly had the shock factor down ~ i had trouble picking my jaw back up from the floor...
for a newbie like me i didnt/wouldnt have expected such a thing to happen so it was pretty surprising that it did ~
As I stated before, probably if I was a first time viewer, my reaction would have been on the opposite, just like DK, since I'm easily emotionally manipulable when it comes to tragedy.

theres a clear reason to why akiko "disappeared" in that crash ~ think of the children! >.< they just cant show a flattened body with a pool of blood around ~ not in this kinda way tbh...
Of course, and also because this isn't supposed to be Elfen Lied or Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. That's why I don't see the need of portraying that scene in such in a raw way to begin with. :/
So far, the way dealt with Akiko's incident is one of the few (if not the only one) side of Kanon 2002 I'm preferring to Kanon 2006. That one had a huge impact on me, even if it was simplier (but again, I *was* a first time viewer, at that time ^^ )

was not expecting to actually see the whole scene... the impact was there. I think i was stunned for a couple of seconds ... which is not an easy task to achieve.
If anything else, the scene was certainly made to have a powerful impact on the attendance. I can't see it failing on this regard :)

Raniie

2007-02-24, 05:47

Definitely different taste on how you perfer that scene to be handled.

Having seen Toei's version first and when Akiko's scene occured, it didn't left me with much impact. It's probably due to the fact that I've been exposed to those type of tragic approach in other tragic shows, so it left me feeling bleh.

As for KyoAni's version, just like you, I already knew of Akiko's fate. Finally being able to see it in this episode really shocked me more than Toei's version. I literally had my eyes wide open and said to myself, "Woah, they animated the whole accident... freakin' KyoAni... how can you do that to Akiko!" (Goes to show how much animation powerness KyoAni is capable of...)

KyoAni could've gone Elfen Lied on us, considering Kanon is aired during midnight 1AM. I'm glad they didn't animate the rest of the accident in full detail with Akiko being thrown off from the impact or crush under and blood splattering about... as that's definitely not necessary to get the point across.

Oh before I forget again.

DivShare File - [R]_Kanon_2006_Softsubs_1-21.zip (http://www.divshare.com/download/155854-650) - Multi-Color.

Sogoro

2007-02-24, 06:07

if they showed blood I would have cried lol this is my first time watching so I'm pretty shocked. I dont want Akiko to die.

Ultima_Rasengan05

2007-02-24, 06:29

this was a very good episode
and the ending
i was expecting it
but i didn"t expect to actually "see" it
i thought it was gonna just show

Akiko-san just crossing the street and then blacking out
but i didn"t expect to see a FULL ON CRASH COLLISION THAT INVOLVED EVEN AKIKO!!!
but what gave it off was the fact that the principal i think came to see both Nayuki and Yuuichi
and thats when i know something bad happend and i know it involved Akiko
(i"m a first time viewer but i think these things just come naturally??!!)

but yea after this episode
i think i have a rough idea of whats to come
Yuuichi using Ayu"s last wish for Akiko"s recovery and yea
but one thing puzzles me
Nayuki liked Yuuichi back then
but aren"t they RELATED??!
hhmmmm i dont wanna be spoiled on the story since Kanon is reaching its conclusion in two more episodes
but its just a side note i guess!

plus i must add something

when the accident happend and the car that crashed hit Akiko
she suddenly disappeared
was this an animation glitch or something??
or does this sort of thing actually happens in real life??
if it does happen in real life
then Akiko must really be in a life dangering state after that incident
OUCH!!!:upset: :upset:

houkoholic

2007-02-24, 08:32

The youtube video of a real crash (like Akiko's) in question, not graphic or anything but might still disturb some people so I'm putting the link in spoilers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9kQwfc4WLo

To cut to the chase, it shows that Kyoani has done it right.

Remember people, a lot of the stuff done in TVs and movies (especially for Hollywood) are *over dramatised* and doesn't actually happen in real life as they do not obey laws of science. For example, you cannot make a car explode by shooting its fuel tank, human bodies don't spontaneously explode in vaccum, airplanes don't rip apart in explosive decompression etc, all of these visual queues are so standard in movies that a lot of people assume must be true but does not actually happen.

niwasatou

2007-02-24, 08:52

This episode was too much on many, many levels. :(
First of all, Akikooo.
And then.. I've never seen a character as MOE~ as Nayuki. Really, little Nayuki just kind of blew me away.
I hate you, Yuuichi! How could you simply smash the snow bunny away..?! :bash:
I want to kill Ayu n- no, wait..
(*has converted to Nayuki Fangirlism*)

Dop

2007-02-24, 08:59

Oh... My.... GOD!
I was completely shocked by that.

The fact that this wasn't a big dramatic scene but just a stupid stupid accident over in the blink of an eye made it seem all the more shocking and real.

Kyuusai

2007-02-24, 09:37

There's a youtube video of a car crash with pedestrian victim that is almost *exactly* like Akiko's predicament - even down to the "vanishing" some have made fun of as "bad animation". I've seen more than my share of real life accidents --- they are usually disturbingly banal in execution until you see the results under the metal and hear the screams.

I think a few of us who are complaining about the "vanishing" don't mean simply that we don't see Akiko after the car hits her. I think it's quite appropriate to not show her, and, after all, it does resemble the video you mentioned in that aspect.

My problem is a frame timing issue that creates the illusion that she disappears a split-second before she *should*.

A disturbing scene nonetheless.

Nightengale

2007-02-24, 09:51

Episode was good overall. Wow...I haven't posted in a Kanon thread in like...months.

Probably gonna get flamed for this, but am the only one who thinks the last scene's storyboarding (( minus the cake of course )) of the accident really...really...sucked?

The last scene was easily the most important one with it's neccesity to build up the tension, emotion and harsh suspence and boom!! And we're left with an empty, bitter feeling to ponder while waiting for the next episode in agony.

In other words, that scene was obviously to give us a WTF HOLY SHIT GODDAMN DAMN IT feeling....but I couldn't feel that at all. It was like...what the hell was that execution?

The way there's little focus on Akiko, and more so on the overall background view and the car's flipping animation made me feel sour. Frankly, it doesn't even have to be focused on Akiko. It could be like...on the mood. or the atmosphere. Or even the gore. But it was none of those. It was like..."look at our amazing physics as the jeep flips over from being crashed from a overspeeding car in snow. Oh? And that woman pancaked under it? She's just a by-product."

Doesn't ruin a good episode, but it didn't really achieve what I thought would've been a gripping mindfuck to me at least.

Ascaloth

2007-02-24, 10:08

Wait a minute.......no gutter-vote from the resident gutter-voter this time round?!

To quote Yuuichi: "Yume ka?" (Is this a dream?) :uhoh:

And anyway, seems like there's been quite enough grieving over Akiko already, so let me see if I can draw peoples' attentions away from that with some other observations of my own:

Earlier on, I posted a couple of points:

1) One scene it's the start of school, the very next, Yuuichi and Nayuki and Kitagawa were digging around in the mountain. No in-between. A bit unsettling, if you ask me.

2) I know KyoAni's gods of animation, but there can be too much of a good thing sometimes. I mean, at the end of the "doing homework together" scene when Nayuki's passed out on the floor, when she turned onto her back and went "Nyoo", I wasn't looking at her face, if you get my meaning. :heh:

With teasers like that, who needs fanservice? :heh:

3) Anyone find it a little off that the Minase mother-daughter pair......how should I put it? It's like they didn't even think that Ayu was missing; it's like they thought she "went home" or something, if you get my meaning. There are a couple of explanations for that that I can think of;

- They thought Ayu went home because, indeed, Yuuichi lied to them and told them that she "went home". Kind of like how Yuuichi told Ayu in Episode 11 that Makoto "went home", you know what I'm saying?
- They actually knew this was coming somehow, but they opted not to ask too much since Yuuichi looked like his back will break if he took another straw to it. This implies that they know more about Ayu then they're letting on, and they've still not let on everything they know yet...

On that note, even Yuuichi himself isn't freaking out as badly as I was expecting him to, at least not yet.

But then again, it hasn't yet come to the stage where he sees the overtly supernatural aspect of Ayu......so perhaps it'll come in the next two episodes. :D

4) Take a look at 17:26-17:30. Now try to recall all the way back to Episode 2. Looks like Yuuichi isn't the only one in the Minase clan with a fetish for "doing" someone who's deep asleep. :heh:

5) "The Scene" still remains as shocking as ever on a second viewing, but on that same second viewing, I got hit pretty badly with a sense of deja vu, which blunted the shock somewhat.

Take a look at the scene immediately after "The Scene", starting from 22:03 to 22:04, and study Nayuki's facial contortions carefully. Now think about it. If you have been a KyoAni follower, where would you have seen this before? Take a guess.

SHnY Episode 12 (12), "Live Alive". Kyon did an almost-identical facial contortion when he saw Haruhi and Yuki enter the stage with the survivors of ENOZ.

Bleh.....KyoAni may be animation masters, but it's not like they're so good they can reuse a sequence without someone spotting it sooner or later. They should think about expanding their repertoire. :uhoh:

6) Toei-KyoAni Comparison 1: In Toei, it was Shota Yuuichi who came up with all the ideas for the "school". In KyoAni, it was Loli Ayu who was the source of all the wild ideas. Hmmm......anyone can corroborate on which way was it done in the game?

7) Toei-KyoAni Comparison 2: "Boku wa Ascaloth no baka". I failed to notice this point until now. Earlier on, there has been some discussion on the apparent scarcity of keitais[/u] (mobile phones/cellphones, whichever way you swing) in the KyoAni Kanon-verse. After the second viewing, I suddenly remembered that "The Scene" was dealt with in Toei Kanon's 12th episode.....and just before that, Akiko actually pulled out a [I]keitai when Nayuki called her. And not just any keitai, but one that had the "Minase Clan + Makoto" sticker photo pasted on it.

As of this point, still no keitai visible in the KyoAni adaptation. :heh:

8) Also, I've noticed that there were plenty of times, even before this episode, when Nayuki simply doesn't seem to see Piro whenever Yuuichi isn't around to stop her. She only gets her cutegasms when Yuuichi is around to keep Piro away from her. Huh?! :uhoh:

9) Another point; Yuuichi was perfectly happy to carry a totally unrelated girl (Ayu) from his own room, through the corridors to her own room.....but he's so squeamish about his own blood-related cousin (Nayuki), that he's equally happy to leave her lying on the floor, with only a blanket?! :twitch:

That's just heartless......unless the wooden floor of the Minase mansion is warmer and more comfortable than I thought.....

10) BLOOPER CATCH!!!! Look at 11:31-11:33. If Ayu is a southpaw....why did she extend her right hand first this time?! :twitch:

Unless it's yet another form of KyoAni's highly subtle symbolism.....

11) 18:10-18:13, Nayuki asks Yuuichi if he would disappear as well. A hint of things to come? :D

I'm trying to screw the newbies up, so shhh. :p

Kinny Riddle

2007-02-24, 11:40

I think I'll have to organize my thoughts starting from the beginning.

As everyone knows by now, turns out Yuuichi was the one responsible for Ayu's lax rules at her "school". And he wonders how can such a school exist.

Nayuki, sensing Ayu's absence, finally makes her presence felt by Yuuichi by constantly cheering him up. Lots of good Nayuki moments from the game to make the Nayu-chan fanboy in me go "moe~". :love:

Mai gets a passing mention when it comes to the snow bunny. I think I laughed out loud when I saw Nayuki placed her "Raging Heart" bead onto the bunny, giving it a "Borg-like" red-eye. :heh:

Kitagawa makes himself useful once again by finding Ayu's missing item, as he did in the original game as well. Though Kaori was omitted from that scene to accommodate the Shiori story.

I now have a better understanding of where Nayuki's flashback scene fits into the bigger picture than when I first played the game. She brought the snow bunny and confessed her feelings to Yuuichi AFTER something "bad" happened with Ayu at the "school". (You guys'll find out soon enough what that means. )

It's a good thing Yuuichi finally realizes Nayuki's feelings, then the classroom door opens, with what I guess is the the school counselor summoning Yuuichi and Nayuki. I knew what was going to happen next, with the interchanging scenes between Akiko-san in the streets and the school. Then came the crash, I still sat up and swore "Holy shit!" at how badly Akiko-san got hit. Poor Akiko-san, and poor Nayuki.

It was nearly perfect until minute 22:00. Note that I already knew of what was going to happen to Akiko, so emotionally the last scene didn't have a great impact on me (while I guess it would have had a terrible one in the opposite case). Despite this though, I was truly disappointed in the way they chose to show that scene. I mean, what is left of subtlety? Was there really a need of showing that scene in that brutal way?

I beg to differ, my friend. In the original visual novel, I only know how bad Akiko-san's condition was when I read from the text "Akiko-san got hit by a car", on the contrary, the way Kyo-Ani portrayed how brutally real the crash was had a greater impact on me than what mere text would reveal.

If anything I think at the scene with Sayuri and the demon in episode 14: they showed Sayuri, the demon approaching, Sayuri again and then the cam zoomed away. And that's what I think they should have done in this case.

The demons are invisible, fantasy, out-of-this-world, the car accident is real and could happen to anyone. So even if they did show the demons mangling poor Sayuri-san's body, the impact on the audience would be "oh my goodness" at best, but most likely not "OH SHIT" from seeing a car accident. Kyo-Ani got the reaction it intended from (most of) the audience with such a brutal depiction. Just my humble opinion.

rogueblade

2007-02-24, 11:59

Hmm...
I thought the first portion of this episode was very, very dull. I wasn't really interested in most of the occurences - only when they started diggin' holes did i really wake up. This episode was bang on for a 6 until then - Nothing was really grabbing my attention.
However, the last couple of minutes...amazing. The Nayuki flashback was heart destroying, and the akiko cake scene was astonishing. Really saved this episode.

What i'm wondering about now, though, is how they'll merge Ayu's and Nayuki's paths together - and complete both - in 3 episodes. I have no idea what happens in the nayuki path, but i'm pretty sure of what happens in the Ayu arc due to spoilarage from here. I mean, it looks like Nayuki's arc has mainly begun, yet Ayu's is just about halfway/halfway between the middle and the end.

houkoholic

2007-02-24, 12:27

If anything I think at the scene with Sayuri and the demon in episode 14: they showed Sayuri, the demon approaching, Sayuri again and then the cam zoomed away. And that's what I think they should have done in this case.

Except that is like how car accidents are always done in every single entertainment show - the old, tired and cheesy "fade out" trick, and frankly that would have just been too cliche. I'm glad that Kyoani actually had done something different.

What i'm wondering about now, though, is how they'll merge Ayu's and Nayuki's paths together - and complete both - in 3 episodes. I have no idea what happens in the nayuki path, but i'm pretty sure of what happens in the Ayu arc due to spoilarage from here. I mean, it looks like Nayuki's arc has mainly begun, yet Ayu's is just about halfway/halfway between the middle and the end.

Ayu's arc can be wrapped up in 1 full episode, except it looks like they're going for a 50/50 approach from now on. Thus I expect that the first half of the next episode will be Nayuki-focused, while the second half will be Ayu-focused. And episode 23 will be the reverse of that for a complete wrap up of both arcs.

White Manju Bun

2007-02-24, 12:32

I cant even type.....even though it had been foreshadowed for a while I still was shocked...KyoAni is awesome....

Sai the Dreamer

2007-02-24, 12:33

Take a look at the scene immediately after "The Scene", starting from 22:03 to 22:04, and study Nayuki's facial contortions carefully. Now think about it. If you have been a KyoAni follower, where would you have seen this before? Take a guess.

SHnY Episode 12 (12), "Live Alive". Kyon did an almost-identical facial contortion when he saw Haruhi and Yuki enter the stage with the survivors of ENOZ.

Bleh.....KyoAni may be animation masters, but it's not like they're so good they can reuse a sequence without someone spotting it sooner or later. They should think about expanding their repertoire. :uhoh:

Not at all. Kyon's face was like, "I just ate something sour." Whereas Nayuki's face wasn't.

Besides, there are only so many ways you can portray a surprised face. :heh:

Matt Soulblade

2007-02-24, 12:45

Wow. I mean, it was totally, absolutely predictable, but still it was so damn shocking, it lets you speechless.

Were close to the ending! Wonder if its a Ayu ending (the "true" ending) or a Nayuki ending what we will get? The wait sucks :P

Lilith

2007-02-24, 13:09

Wait, 3 episodes left? So 26 episodes was just a rumor after all??

*gets hit by Mai's sword for asking a (I asuume) repetitve question* :heh:

Kisuke06

2007-02-24, 13:18

Damn, the accident was indeed predictable, but I thought it was very shocking. I too was stunned for a couple of seconds, after the accident I had to go back some seconds in the episode and see that again. Poor Akiko-san...

Oh, and I'm rooting for a Nayuki ending. =P

CrowKenobi

2007-02-24, 13:21

well things are definatly in motion now...with yuuichi remembering that a terrible person he is and now this hits his head i only wonder how much more trauma his soul can take :rolleyes:Well, we'll find out when that last piece of his forgotten memory gets remembered... :sad:

:cool:

DanielSong39

2007-02-24, 13:49

Pellissier

2007-02-24, 14:27

I beg to differ, my friend. In the original visual novel, I only know how bad Akiko-san's condition was when I read from the text "Akiko-san got hit by a car", on the contrary, the way Kyo-Ani portrayed how brutally real the crash was had a greater impact on me than what mere text would reveal.

The demons are invisible, fantasy, out-of-this-world, the car accident is real and could happen to anyone. So even if they did show the demons mangling poor Sayuri-san's body, the impact on the audience would be "oh my goodness" at best, but most likely not "OH SHIT" from seeing a car accident. Kyo-Ani got the reaction it intended from (most of) the audience with such a brutal depiction. Just my humble opinion.
Fine fine, I purposely hit the trigger because I wanted to hear detailed opinions on why this scene is so appreciated, (KyoAni bias being aside) since clearly I don't feel the same.
I've read some pretty good opinions on the answers and especially your, Kinny. The comparison between cars (human world) and and demons (fantasy) was well fitting.

My position will unlikely change but surely when I'll have to handle with this scene again, I'll have several more useful point of views to see through the shades of it. :)

Bloody Nightingale

2007-02-24, 14:31

Wait a minute.......no gutter-vote from the resident gutter-voter this time round?!

To quote Yuuichi: "Yume ka?" (Is this a dream?) :uhoh:

And anyway, seems like there's been quite enough grieving over Akiko already, so let me see if I can draw peoples' attentions away from that with some other observations of my own:

Earlier on, I posted a couple of points:

3) Anyone find it a little off that the Minase mother-daughter pair......how should I put it? It's like they didn't even think that Ayu was missing; it's like they thought she "went home" or something, if you get my meaning. There are a couple of explanations for that that I can think of;

- They thought Ayu went home because, indeed, Yuuichi lied to them and told them that she "went home". Kind of like how Yuuichi told Ayu in Episode 11 that Makoto "went home", you know what I'm saying?
- They actually knew this was coming somehow, but they opted not to ask too much since Yuuichi looked like his back will break if he took another straw to it. This implies that they know more about Ayu then they're letting on, and they've still not let on everything they know yet...

On that note, even Yuuichi himself isn't freaking out as badly as I was expecting him to, at least not yet.

But then again, it hasn't yet come to the stage where he sees the overtly supernatural aspect of Ayu......so perhaps it'll come in the next two episodes. :D

4) Take a look at 17:26-17:30. Now try to recall all the way back to Episode 2. Looks like Yuuichi isn't the only one in the Minase clan with a fetish for "doing" someone who's deep asleep. :heh:

5) "The Scene" still remains as shocking as ever on a second viewing, but on that same second viewing, I got hit pretty badly with a sense of deja vu, which blunted the shock somewhat.

Take a look at the scene immediately after "The Scene", starting from 22:03 to 22:04, and study Nayuki's facial contortions carefully. Now think about it. If you have been a KyoAni follower, where would you have seen this before? Take a guess.

SHnY Episode 12 (12), "Live Alive". Kyon did an almost-identical facial contortion when he saw Haruhi and Yuki enter the stage with the survivors of ENOZ.

Bleh.....KyoAni may be animation masters, but it's not like they're so good they can reuse a sequence without someone spotting it sooner or later. They should think about expanding their repertoire. :uhoh:

6) Toei-KyoAni Comparison 1: In Toei, it was Shota Yuuichi who came up with all the ideas for the "school". In KyoAni, it was Loli Ayu who was the source of all the wild ideas. Hmmm......anyone can corroborate on which way was it done in the game?

7) Toei-KyoAni Comparison 2: "Boku wa Ascaloth no baka". I failed to notice this point until now. Earlier on, there has been some discussion on the apparent scarcity of keitais[/u] (mobile phones/cellphones, whichever way you swing) in the KyoAni Kanon-verse. After the second viewing, I suddenly remembered that "The Scene" was dealt with in Toei Kanon's 12th episode.....and just before that, Akiko actually pulled out a [I]keitai when Nayuki called her. And not just any keitai, but one that had the "Minase Clan + Makoto" sticker photo pasted on it.

As of this point, still no keitai visible in the KyoAni adaptation. :heh:

8) Also, I've noticed that there were plenty of times, even before this episode, when Nayuki simply doesn't seem to see Piro whenever Yuuichi isn't around to stop her. She only gets her cutegasms when Yuuichi is around to keep Piro away from her. Huh?! :uhoh:

9) Another point; Yuuichi was perfectly happy to carry a totally unrelated girl (Ayu) from his own room, through the corridors to her own room.....but he's so squeamish about his own blood-related cousin (Nayuki), that he's equally happy to leave her lying on the floor, with only a blanket?! :twitch:

That's just heartless......unless the wooden floor of the Minase mansion is warmer and more comfortable than I thought.....

10) BLOOPER CATCH!!!! Look at 11:31-11:33. If Ayu is a southpaw....why did she extend her right hand first this time?! :twitch:

Unless it's yet another form of KyoAni's highly subtle symbolism.....

11) 18:10-18:13, Nayuki asks Yuuichi if he would disappear as well. A hint of things to come? :D

I'm trying to screw the newbies up, so shhh. :p

5) I dont see what's wrong with that, besides it wasn't even close to similar in terms of purpose. Kyon's = Shock due to wtf, while Nayuki's apparently shows fear.

6) Ayu's suppose to be the one who came up with the school idea.

9) Well, considering Nayuki was already in her own room......

10) Recall from ep01, Ayu initially starts with left hand, but tries to use her right hand instead since it is the proper way. So considering that, its nothing wrong about Ayu getting used to extending her right hand to U1.

FatPianoBoy

2007-02-24, 14:34

The topic has already been beaten to death (no pun intended :uhoh:), but my two cents goes like this:
The scene was indeed predictable. We had an idea that it would happen several seconds before it actually did. Therefore, in order to still give us the "OMG!" reaction, the crash was depicted as horribly as it would have happened.
It's my opinion that slow-motion, freeze-frames, blackouts, and close-up shots are used to downplay the gravity of things like these rather than accentuate it. Therefore, I'm quite pleased that KyoAni let us see the accident the same way that poor fellow on the sidewalk did.

Deathkillz

2007-02-24, 14:44

9) Well, considering Nayuki was already in her own room......

that is true but i personally would have expected yuuichi to carry nayuki to bed as well :) another thing...through that scene we didnt see yuuichi's facial expression...man if i was him i would have been blushing quite badly (relative or not there we have a vaunerable girl sleeping unguarded ~ literally :heh:)
The scene was indeed predictable. We had an idea that it would happen several seconds before it actually did. Therefore, in order to still give us the "OMG!" reaction, the crash was depicted as horribly as it would have happened.

yea...those few seconds of waiting for the bad news seemed like hours...i was chewing on my nails while thinking that its not possible...the it hits me in the face >.<

DanielSong39

2007-02-24, 14:56

I'm on the fence with the crash scene; it's better than the usual slo-mo/fade-out shtick, but it's also directly ripped off from the Youtube video.

Maybe a single-car crash would've been better.

In any case, I'm more interested in the aftermath. Pleased with this episode, but not sure about where KyoAni will take it from here.

Skyfall

2007-02-24, 15:23

Nayuki liked Yuuichi back then, but are"t they RELATED??!

Yes, they are.
No, it does not matter :)

This topic has been beaten to death in almost every harem anime :) (yes, yes - i know Kanon is not a typical harem anime, so don't you all come at me with pitchforks and stuff :) )

They are cousins. Cousin marriage is just fine in Japan, as it is in most other places in the world. Personally, i don't see why it should pose a problem of any sort, and find it perfectly normal. Cheers.

fubar84

2007-02-24, 15:43

Yes, they are.
No, it does not matter :)

This topic has been beaten to death in almost every harem anime :) (yes, yes - i know Kanon is not a typical harem anime, so don't you all come at me with pitchforks and stuff :) )

They are cousins. Cousin marriage is just fine in Japan, as it is in most other places in the world. Personally, i don't see why it should pose a problem of any sort, and find it perfectly normal. Cheers.

Man1 marries Woman1, gets Boy. Man2, who is the brother of Man1, marries Woman2, who is the sister of Woman1, gets Girl. Boy and Girl wed, no prob..? :twitch:

That is an actual situation in my gfriend's family..... i hate the family gatherings.

On topic: Loved the episode, can't get enough of Nayuki's NYUUUU :D

superzombie23

2007-02-24, 15:54

Wow. :heh: I actually hold an opposite opinion of what you feel. I felt that the accident has been rather downplayed.

No frills, no excessiveness, just raw damage. It was a no-holds barred scene, but to their credit, they did not overplay on it.

Personally, I would have cringed if they made 'car-crash scenario take-XX', where we see the Bambi-eyes of the victim before the screen goes black with accompanying sound-effects. Off-hand, I can already think of two, and if I apply more thought to it, probably a couple dozen more...

It can be said that KyoAni chose a more inspired way of showing the accident.
Cheers.

I definitely would have preferred that version of the crash scene. That's what I meant in my last post by saying it should have been made more serious.

Skyfall

2007-02-24, 16:01

Man1 marries Woman1, gets Boy. Man2, who is the brother of Man1, marries Woman2, who is the sister of Woman1, gets Girl. Boy and Girl wed, no prob..? :twitch:

I fail to see one ;)
It should be a problem because... ? This is something i have never understood, and i have yet see some one give a better answer than something along the lines of "just because"

Fact: 26 states allow first cousin marriages; Most people can marry their cousin in the US.
Fact: No European country prohibits marriage between first cousins. It is also legal throughout Canada and Mexico to marry your cousin. The USA is the only western country with cousin marriage restrictions.
Fact: US prohibitions against cousin marriages predate modern genetics.
Fact: Children of non-related couples have a 2-3% risk of birth defects, as opposed to first cousins having a 4-6% risk.

http://www.cousincouples.com/ for more info

...i apologize for the offtopic :)

New/Old

2007-02-24, 16:01

Heh heh. That is quite an opinion to make. Heh heh. After all, it's all up to the viewer's opinion. Though in my opinion, any car crash involving a pedestrian and a car is serious enough. No more needs to be said or shown....

EDIT: Informative as always, Skyfall. Heh heh. Personally, it's never bothered me. Why? Because the only reason why it is rebuffed is because of social conditioning. There hasn't really been anything substantiated that holds against it. And if there is no truly serious problem with it, I see no reason to rebuff such a thing because of squeamish tendancies.

Heh heh. Time to get myself back on topic then. Heh heh.

Matt Soulblade

2007-02-24, 17:14

The fact that Nayuki's and Yuiichi's families are kinda distant and are not large (few members) make them look like they are more distant if not even related. I have a hard time seeing them as a family, Yuiichi looks like teh big "friend's son" freeloader.

guuchan

2007-02-24, 17:24

Maritime

2007-02-24, 19:39

Excellent episode, unfortunately I had the ending spoiled for me by some imbacile on another forum but aside from that it was really enjoyable. The crash scene wasn't as shocking as I thought it'd be, to be truthful I was a lot more shocked when Makoto dropped Piro off of the bridge, however that may have more to do with the whole 'I did NOT see that coming' effect. I certainly hope that this isn't the end of Akiko, I watched the series again from Episode One the other day and I get the impression that she knows a lot more about what's going on than she lets on - I'd like to know what she knows and why.

I'm probably going to get lynched for this, but am I the only one who just can't get behind Nayuki and Yuichi as a couple? Despite living together throughout the entire series they don't seem to have very much in common and up until recently have pretty much lived and acted like siblings.

None the less I can't wait for Episode Twenty-Two.

Incidently, I wish they'd done a little more with Mishio like, maybe, had her join Yuichi's circle of friends or something. It seems kinda sad that her only role was to help Yuichi with the whole Makoto situation then just vanish from the face of the Earth. I'd like to have seen some sort of resolution there.

toxic_trance

2007-02-24, 20:05

Why all the hassle with the first cousins and all. Love sees no bar. If first cousins are in love..then just let them be..if u want controversy..satisfy urself with koi Kaze or Angelic Sanctuary..when it comes to kanon..pls take a moment of silence and pray for the good health of Akiko-san

Mirrinus

2007-02-24, 20:17

Maritime, you're not alone. I also don't really see Yuuichi and Nayuki really working out, and it's NOT because they're cousins (having been born in China, it didn't strike me as being too weird). While it's undeniable that Nayuki has feelings for Yuuichi, I've seen very little indication that it could work the other way around. Romantic affection-wise, I'd probably rate Nayuki second to last out of all the girls, beating out only Makoto (whom I saw as having more of a father-daughter relationship, especially by the end). Yuuichi has treated her like a sibling throughout the entire show, I can't really see it changing drastically in just an episode or two.

This is definitely not because I dislike Nayuki, as she's one of my favorite characters. It's just that I can't see her end up with Yuuichi for some reason. Sure, go ahead and blame Yuuichi's bad taste all you want. Still, all I have to say is that she's too good for him. :P

iamandragon

2007-02-24, 20:26

I fail to see one ;)
It should be a problem because... ? This is something i have never understood, and i have yet see some one give a better answer than something along the lines of "just because"

Fact: 26 states allow first cousin marriages; Most people can marry their cousin in the US.
Fact: No European country prohibits marriage between first cousins. It is also legal throughout Canada and Mexico to marry your cousin. The USA is the only western country with cousin marriage restrictions.
Fact: US prohibitions against cousin marriages predate modern genetics.
Fact: Children of non-related couples have a 2-3% risk of birth defects, as opposed to first cousins having a 4-6% risk.

http://www.cousincouples.com/ for more info

...i apologize for the offtopic :)

Add one fact which is critical: First cousin marriage in the east is VALID. And since the settings of Kanon is in Japan, it is also VALID.
^^

DanielSong39

2007-02-24, 20:48

I can't speak for other religions, but first cousin marriages are valid in Christianity. Does anyone know what other major religions have to say about first cousin marriages?

Matt Soulblade

2007-02-24, 21:01

Akiko is U1's direct aunt, which means Nayuki is U1's first cousin.

I know. "Kinda distant" in terms of contact, communication, things like that.

Brim

2007-02-24, 21:41

Only episode I have given a ten to - so far at least. Poor Akiko. Poor Nayuki. Poor Yuuichi... sheesh, poor everyone. I don't think there is a character on this show (except for the student council president who was mean to Mai) that I don't like. I honestly hope that everyone can have sort of happy ending, but it doesn't seem like that is going to happen...

As for the scene where Nayuki falls asleep on the floor I think it was put in to show Yuuichi's mindset: although he cares for her, he sees her more as a sister than anything else. Him leaving her on the floor really didn't bug me - she seems like she could sleep anywhere. What did bother me was (and no one has mentioned this) he left Piro in the room with her. Isn't that just asking for trouble?

All in all, excellent episode, Kanon keeps impressing me.

AvianWing

2007-02-24, 22:09

I don't think there's any religion that forbids the marriage of first cousin, it's only established by tradition. The only thing I can come up with is the Chinese culture of not marrying a person with the same last name (I pity all then Chens out there:heh: )

Ascaloth

2007-02-24, 22:27

Yuuichi can redeem himself by doing his best to support Nayuki and Akiko; deep down, he knows that they are more important than some girl he met 7 years ago and dated for a few days.

But I agree; if he ditches them to pursue Ayu, he really is a terrible person.

The previews aren't promising, but I'll give KyoAni the benefit of the doubt until episode 22 actually comes out. I refuse to believe that they'll make such a horrendous mistake.

I dunno, pal. You're effectively saying that Nayuki's plight is worse than Ayu's plight, and therefore if he wasn't such a "horrible person", he'll support Nayuki. I cannot agree with that statement; not because I disagree with the opinion (nor that I support it in any way, for that matter), but because a statement like that is very much subjective. It's an opinionated topic, if I may say so myself; as many different perspectives as there are people, you know what I mean?

I'm personally sitting on the fence for this one, but I'd really appreciate it if you'll stop making absolute statements like "such a horrendous mistake" on such topics which have no absolute fact.

5) I dont see what's wrong with that, besides it wasn't even close to similar in terms of purpose. Kyon's = Shock due to wtf, while Nayuki's apparently shows fear.

Yes, I know Kyon's facial contortion is more WTF than Nayuki's fear, but my point isn't the context, my point is the near-identical frames involved. In fact, I was thinking "Why is Nayuki showing the WTF face?" even before I thought of Kyon in the first place. :)

6) Ayu's suppose to be the one who came up with the school idea.

I see.

9) Well, considering Nayuki was already in her own room......

Doesn't change the fact that she's still on the floor. And besides, since she was already in her own room, it shouldn't have been too hard for Yuuichi to just pick her up and set her on the bed. :heh:

10) Recall from ep01, Ayu initially starts with left hand, but tries to use her right hand instead since it is the proper way. So considering that, its nothing wrong about Ayu getting used to extending her right hand to U1.

Yes, like I said, it could be yet another of KyoAni's subtle signs of Ayu and Yuuichi getting more intimately familiar with one another. :)

On topic: Loved the episode, can't get enough of Nayuki's NYUUUU :D

And yet you're the only one who gutter-voted this time round?!

You're one of those who takes the "Painful" description literally, don't you?! *lands a 100 ton hammer on fubar84's head* :D

I can't speak for other religions, but first cousin marriages are valid in Christianity. Does anyone know what other major religions have to say about first cousin marriages?

In fact, if I may make a point, cousin marriages were prevalent in the higher stratas of European society at one time; it's basically what royal marriages between the ruling nobles of different countries were all about. :D

I don't think there's any religion that forbids the marriage of first cousin, it's only established by tradition. The only thing I can come up with is the Chinese culture of not marrying a person with the same last name (I pity all then Chens out there:heh: )

That's not even adhered to that strictly, nowadays. I should know, my own parents are an example of such a union. :heh:

Kyuusai

2007-02-24, 22:27

As for the scene where Nayuki falls asleep on the floor I think it was put in to show Yuuichi's mindset: although he cares for her, he sees her more as a sister than anything else.

Actually, I think the fanservice in that scene was meant to show that he DOES notice her.

I've read that, in the game, that's when... *ahem*

Brim

2007-02-24, 23:12

Actually, I think the fanservice in that scene was meant to show that he DOES notice her.

I've read that, in the game, that's when... *ahem*

Ah, you may be right on that point Kyuusai - I've never played the game so I'm in the dark on that one. It just seemed to me Yuuichi didn't react in the way one would imagine then if that was the case (blushing or at least a wry comment on noticing her as something more than a relative).

I don't envy Yuuichi at this point - I hope he is able to handle all the pressures on himself, help Nayuki and find Ayu...

Ascaloth

2007-02-24, 23:21

Skane

2007-02-24, 23:23

~~ I don't envy Yuuichi at this point - I hope he is able to handle all the pressures on himself, help Nayuki and find Ayu...
... and get to see Shiori well, keep his promise to keep in contact with Mai( gee... I wonder why I remember this one...), etc...

Natch.

Brim

2007-02-24, 23:30

... and get to see Shiori well, keep his promise to keep in contact with Mai( gee... I wonder why I remember this one...), etc...

Natch.

...I'm just thinking of the next episode Skane. Heh - if Yuuichi manages all of that in a day than I think he should get a medal. :D

FatPianoBoy

2007-02-24, 23:35

Heh - if Yuuichi manages all of that in a day than I think he should get a medal. :D

I think he should get a break instead :heh:

Skane

2007-02-24, 23:39

Some anime bloggers have made a very good point about how it seems that Japanese high schools (at least in the Kanonverse) teaches stuff like Schrödinger's cat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_Cat).

An even better point is how they've linked that theory to what we know of Shiori's

and Akiko-san's

condition. :D
..) Original Lyrics (http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Neil-Diamond/He-Ain-t-Heavy-He-s-My-Brother.html)
..) Music Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usZtSl8mX08)

She Ain't Dead Yet... She's In Quantum
(Think of Shiori and Kaori)
---- ----

The road is long
With many a winding turn
That leads us to who knows where
Who knows where

But I'm strong
Strong enough to carry on
She ain't dead yet, she's in quantum

So on we go
Her welfare is of my concern
No burden is she, to bear
We'll get there
For I know
She would not abandon me
She ain't dead yet, she's in quantum

If I'm laden at all
I'm laden with sadness
That everyone's heart
Isn't filled with the gladness
Of love for one another

It's a long, long road
From which there is no return
While we're on our way to there
Why not share

And the pain
Doesn't weigh me down at all
She ain't dead yet, she's in quantum
She ain't dead yet, she's in quantum
~~~~ ~~~~

Cheers.

DanielSong39

2007-02-24, 23:51

I dunno, pal. You're effectively saying that Nayuki's plight is worse than Ayu's plight, and therefore if he wasn't such a "horrible person", he'll support Nayuki. I cannot agree with that statement; not because I disagree with the opinion (nor that I support it in any way, for that matter), but because a statement like that is very much subjective. It's an opinionated topic, if I may say so myself; as many different perspectives as there are people, you know what I mean?

I'm personally sitting on the fence for this one, but I'd really appreciate it if you'll stop making absolute statements like "such a horrendous mistake" on such topics which have no absolute fact.

I'm only speaking for myself here, Ascaloth. Basically, I'm saying that I would be completely turned off by Yuuichi if the show actually took that path (and it hasn't, by the way).

It's easy to get caught up in a relationship and neglect those around you. But over the long run, those closest to you tend to have a bigger impact on your long-term future - for better or for worse. Ignoring your parents, siblings, and this case, your caretaker (Akiko) in favor of a girlfriend/boyfriend will almost assuredly hurt you over the long run. I've seen it happen too often in real life, and I don't want to see it happen here. Yuuichi's actions in Kanon 2002 literally sickened me.

I'm not saying Yuuichi should drop Ayu like a hot potato, or he should start a relationship with Nayuki. What I AM saying is that he should realize that Akiko's situation absolutely trumps Ayu's - frankly, for me, it's a no-brainer. Perhaps in the anime world, you should go for the girl every time - but in real life, such a decision is an absolute killer.

As for Ayu - her situation is indeed serious, but I think her actions and words imply that deep down, she really wants her mother - and by extension, a close-knit family. In that sense, I believe Akiko and Nayuki actually has more to offer Ayu than Yuuichi - as they can play the "mother" and "onee-chan" roles in her life. She obviously likes Yuuichi, but her desire to have a boyfriend seems to be somewhat secondary.

Ascaloth

2007-02-25, 00:25

I'm only speaking for myself here, Ascaloth. Basically, I'm saying that I would be completely turned off by Yuuichi if the show actually took that path (and it hasn't, by the way).

It's easy to get caught up in a relationship and neglect those around you. But over the long run, those closest to you tend to have a bigger impact on your long-term future - for better or for worse. Ignoring your parents, siblings, and this case, your caretaker (Akiko) in favor of a girlfriend/boyfriend will almost assuredly hurt you over the long run. I've seen it happen too often in real life, and I don't want to see it happen here. Yuuichi's actions in Kanon 2002 literally sickened me.

I'm not saying Yuuichi should drop Ayu like a hot potato, or he should start a relationship with Nayuki. What I AM saying is that he should realize that Akiko's situation absolutely trumps Ayu's - frankly, for me, it's a no-brainer. Perhaps in the anime world, you should go for the girl every time - but in real life, such a decision is an absolute killer.

As for Ayu - her situation is indeed serious, but I think her actions and words imply that deep down, she really wants her mother - and by extension, a close-knit family. In that sense, I believe Akiko and Nayuki actually has more to offer Ayu than Yuuichi - as they can play the "mother" and "onee-chan" roles in her life. She obviously likes Yuuichi, but her desire to have a boyfriend seems to be somewhat secondary.

Fair enough, as long as you're clear that it is just your own opinion. Don't blame me for being spooked by the fact that too many times already have you come across like thinking you're "the authority" on things.

Personally, my preference is for a "no-girls" ending, although my definition of such an ending may be a little bit different from yours. Basically, I don't see why Ayu's and Nayuki's good endings have to be mutually exclusive; it's certainly possible, and in my opinion preferable, to work out into an ending where Akiko recovers, and Ayu wakes up from her coma at the same time......but Yuuichi, Nayuki and Ayu enter into an unspoken agreement to leave the romantic stuff on the backburner for the time being. :)

Therefore, everything is well, and a reawakened Ayu once again becomes an honorary member of the Minase clan just like Yuuichi. To add some bitter to the sweet, they might make it such that Ayu has to undergo physiotherapy (after 7 years in bed, anyone's going to need serious physiotherapy....), and the Minases (yes, I include Yuuichi as a Minase here, despite his real Aizawa family name) give her all the support she needs and all......just some musings of mine, anyway. :D

Ascaloth

2007-02-25, 00:34

Mine is the last post, but why isn't my name on the last post column?

Blue Reverie

2007-02-25, 01:05

Actually your prediction does seem to include spoilers I didn't take a long look (the second I opened it I saw the word

coma

and jammed the PgUp button as fast as I could), so you might wanna check that against spoilers for first time viewers. managed to avoid reading anything but still... :mad: Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I dunno. *sigh*

Lilith

2007-02-25, 01:12

I can't speak for other religions, but first cousin marriages are valid in Christianity. Does anyone know what other major religions have to say about first cousin marriages?
In Islam (and arabian societies) it's completely fine. My brother is married to my first cousin (mothers are sisters). :D

Some anime bloggers have made a very good point about how it seems that Japanese high schools (at least in the Kanonverse) teaches stuff like Schrödinger's cat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_Cat).

An even better point is how they've linked that theory to what we know of Shiori's

and Akiko-san's

condition. :D
Actually, I was thinking more of Ayu... "alive but dead". I think it suits her more.

And about leaving Nayuki sleeping on the floor:
I didn't play the game, so I didn't know it was for... *ahems* :p I was thinking it's fine because this is a, uhh, "family thing". In our house, if someone is sleeping on the floor, we'll just bring a blanket and a pillow for them. Then again, we have carpet and not wood... :heh:

garra113

2007-02-25, 01:19

Is it just me or is this anime flowing to YuuchixNayuki direction rather then AyuxYuuchi O_O?

Lilith

2007-02-25, 01:21

Nope! It's Yuuichi x Kitagawa~ They're starting to have lunch together. ;)

Mirrinus

2007-02-25, 01:22

I think the anime flows towards Yuuichix(current girl's arc) every few episodes or so...

ayako

2007-02-25, 02:12

Nope! It's Yuuichi x Kitagawa~ They're starting to have lunch together. ;)

*de-lurks* Such genius...

That explains why the doll bears such a resemblance to Kitagawa! It was written in stone those seven years ago that they are the true canon pairing of Kanon...

*is shot*

fubar84

2007-02-25, 04:58

And yet you're the only one who gutter-voted this time round?!

You're one of those who takes the "Painful" description literally, don't you?! *lands a 100 ton hammer on fubar84's head* :D

WOT?? :eyebrow: That was a mistake then, i know i gave the last Shuffle! Memories ep a 1, but i was supposed to give this a 10. Does that mean that i gave S!M a 10 and this a 1? Sheiße!! :upset: Have to blame sleepyness for it, actually while i wrote here last night i kinda had the same expression as Nayuki in the last ep.. NYUUUUU :heh:

Any way to retract a vote (not that it's superimportant on anything..)

Deathkillz

2007-02-25, 06:42

Fair enough, as long as you're clear that it is just your own opinion. Don't blame me for being spooked by the fact that too many times already have you come across like thinking you're "the authority" on things.

Personally, my preference is for a "no-girls" ending, although my definition of such an ending may be a little bit different from yours. Basically, I don't see why Ayu's and Nayuki's good endings have to be mutually exclusive; it's certainly possible, and in my opinion preferable, to work out into an ending where Akiko recovers, and Ayu wakes up from her coma at the same time......but Yuuichi, Nayuki and Ayu enter into an unspoken agreement to leave the romantic stuff on the backburner for the time being. :)

Therefore, everything is well, and a reawakened Ayu once again becomes an honorary member of the Minase clan just like Yuuichi. To add some bitter to the sweet, they might make it such that Ayu has to undergo physiotherapy (after 7 years in bed, anyone's going to need serious physiotherapy....), and the Minases (yes, I include Yuuichi as a Minase here, despite his real Aizawa family name) give her all the support she needs and all......just some musings of mine, anyway. :D
yea i agree on it being a "no-girls" ending ~ i can imagine yuuichi disappearing off for another few years and comming back with a surprise...how bout meeting ayu on the same bench and cue the end credits! :3

Owaranai Destiny

2007-02-25, 08:06

Episode 21 thoughts:

Not much, considering how intense the discussion has been in the thread for certain issues. :heh:

-It's Nayuki's stage, and she's the leading role here. She's involved in everything here-The search for the angel doll, Yuuichi's moping, her own past (duh) and Akiko's accident. I think it's safe to say there's a hell lot more development on her character here than in every other episode we've seen her. The irony's not lost on me, though...First she tries to comfort Yuuichi, yet in the next episode she's the one who needs comfort (but apparently refuses it, as seen in the preview).

-Kudos for the Mai reference. I like that little touch.

-Humor noticeably missing from the episode mostly, but you know what happens with Piro, Nayuki and Yuuichi in the same room...

-Now I start getting the YuuichixAyu pairing more, especially with the flashbacks. Besides that, I'm pretty sure most of us first-timers start getting what's going on, finally, with the second promise.

-That was pretty....intense, for Akiko-san. I hope she makes it out just fine, without too many injuries or bruises.

Somehow, Nayuki's arc seems to reek of the greatest melancholy and sadness around, and her interaction with Yuuichi as well as her attempts to cheer him up just made me like her a little more. :) Well, next week, we get to see another different side of Nayuki. Looking forward to it.

9/10.

DannyCat

2007-02-25, 12:46

Speaking of who's dead or not, the only character in the entire series so far who's actually and verifiably died so far is Sayuri's little brother. Nobody else ever left a body behind.

Ayu, Shiori, and Akiko are all (probably) still alive in the hospital, and Makoto's in some indeterminate state.

FatPianoBoy

2007-02-25, 14:22

imagine yuuichi disappearing off for another few years and comming back with a surprise...how bout meeting ayu on the same bench and cue the end credits! :3

That would be more maddeningly ambiguous and WTF than even the Kashimashi TV series ending. I vote 'no' for this.

Deathkillz

2007-02-25, 14:31

well i duno...think how AIR ended...i think i would like something like that to happen so i can experience what it is like to have sleepless nights again ~ but then again i duno how the original kanon ended so that doesnt give me any measure of appropriateness ~

orion

2007-02-25, 16:26

Well. I wouldn't want to bring up Air's true ending here. It's not something you'd want to see in Kanon (unless you're npal. ;) :joke:)

Besides a "no girl" win ending is going against Kanon's game mechanics, Kanon's principle of miracles and who is the real lover in this story (i.e, who's path is the major path in this series). This title is just merging all the game paths.

Akiko is an extremely important and necessary character for the game and anime. Kyo-Ani is being faithful to the game. You could prob estimate how critical she really is going to be by the condition of the cake/bag on the street.

Maritime

2007-02-25, 16:46

Maritime, you're not alone. I also don't really see Yuuichi and Nayuki really working out, and it's NOT because they're cousins (having been born in China, it didn't strike me as being too weird). While it's undeniable that Nayuki has feelings for Yuuichi, I've seen very little indication that it could work the other way around. Romantic affection-wise, I'd probably rate Nayuki second to last out of all the girls, beating out only Makoto (whom I saw as having more of a father-daughter relationship, especially by the end). Yuuichi has treated her like a sibling throughout the entire show, I can't really see it changing drastically in just an episode or two.
I agree. Until now I've really only seen Nayuki as a 'lighten the mood' sort of character who's only wheeled out every now and again to perform her sleepy-schtick routine to bring some humour to the episode. Compared to Makoto (who I also believed had a father/daughter relationship with Yuuichi) and Ayu (who's easily THE primary female in the series) she's done very little, from a romantic standpoint, to endear herself to Yuuichi and I'd hate to see them end up together just because she becomes the only girl left at the end.

qwerty4

2007-02-25, 18:17

This episode was better than i expected.
I feel sorry for Nayuki.
I knew that Akiko was going to be in an accident so i thought it wouldnt shock me as much as 2k2. But this scene was so...dramatic and powerful it sent shivers down my spine and back up again. It was so sudden and well put together that it shocked me even though i knew what was next. Brilliant scene.
Love this epi.

Mirrinus

2007-02-25, 18:21

I'm amazed at how shocking that scene could be even when so many of us watching it here already knew it was going to happen. I knew the accident was coming long before, but that scene (especially the build-up) was so heart-pounding, it was more intense than Higurashi...

qwerty4

2007-02-25, 18:21

Oh yes and Akiko better not die. The way the accident happened here it seems impossible to survive. but then again this program is about miracles.
Akiko is such a great character ^^

orion

2007-02-25, 20:24

toxic_trance

2007-02-26, 01:06

Poor fubar84 voted a 1 for Kanon by mistake. He exchanged the votes between SHUFFLE Memories and Kanon

Vexx

2007-02-26, 02:38

Merridew

2007-02-26, 04:10

-It's Nayuki's stage, and she's the leading role here. She's involved in everything here-The search for the angel doll, Yuuichi's moping, her own past (duh) and Akiko's accident. I think it's safe to say there's a hell lot more development on her character here than in every other episode we've seen her. The irony's not lost on me, though...First she tries to comfort Yuuichi, yet in the next episode she's the one who needs comfort (but apparently refuses it, as seen in the preview).

It's like Nayuki's/Yuuichi's flashback except reversed. Yuuichi didn't want Nayuki's sympathy 7 years ago. Now it's Nayuki's turn. Is this her revenge? I felt sorry for her in the preview :(

fubar84

2007-02-26, 05:20

Poor fubar84 voted a 1 for Kanon by mistake. He exchanged the votes between SHUFFLE Memories and Kanon

As it turns out, I did actually manage to vote correctly for Shuffle Memories ep 7. So I don't really know what I was thinking, it's madness, MADNESS! :mad:
Just for the records, I should've given Kanon ep 21 a tenner obviously. NYU

Bloody Nightingale

2007-02-26, 06:07

It's like Nayuki's/Yuuichi's flashback except reversed. Yuuichi didn't want Nayuki's sympathy 7 years ago. Now it's Nayuki's turn. Is this her revenge? I felt sorry for her in the preview :(

But that's the point of the drama in Nayuki's arc i think, U1 suffered a loss and shuts himself into despair 7 years ago, where Nayuki tried to comfort him (even tho she doesn't seem to have any idea what he gone through).... and now its Nayuki's turn to shut herself from everyone else, and U1 to bring her hope. This pretty much how u describe Nayuki's arc in simplicity.

Ascaloth

2007-02-26, 06:38

Poor Nayuki...

If she hadn't said strawberry cake, Akiko would be home making dinner. Poor Yuichi too. Now that he remembers everything, I want to see him resolve this mess.

That accident was a nice piece of bloodless animation. Maybe, they will add in the blood in the DVD. Minus .5. :nono:

Yeah, it looks like it's Nayuki's turn to crumble. Come on, Kaede! ;)

So, did fubar84 explain that score?

Poor fubar84 voted a 1 for Kanon by mistake. He exchanged the votes between SHUFFLE Memories and Kanon

As it turns out, I did actually manage to vote correctly for Shuffle Memories ep 7. So I don't really know what I was thinking, it's madness, MADNESS! :mad:
Just for the records, I should've given Kanon ep 21 a tenner obviously. NYU

Can someone make me a gif of the scene where Yuuichi whacked Makoto one over the head with a newspaper?

Once that's done, I'm posting it up here just for fubar84. Makoto=fubar84, Yuuichi=me. :D

Bloody Nightingale

2007-02-26, 07:06

Can someone make me a gif of the scene where Yuuichi whacked Makoto one over the head with a newspaper?

Once that's done, I'm posting it up here just for fubar84. Makoto=fubar84, Yuuichi=me. :D

I dunno how to get it to show up here, and mite need some compressing too but... hope this helps =)
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o226/fx18/whack.gif?t=1172491568

Tiberium Wolf

2007-02-26, 07:55

God Damnit! That accident scene was scary! If there were blood there then the impact on the viewers would be greater!

orion

2007-02-26, 08:30

Kinny Riddle

2007-02-26, 08:52

Can someone make me a gif of the scene where Yuuichi whacked Makoto one over the head with a newspaper?

Once that's done, I'm posting it up here just for fubar84. Makoto=fubar84, Yuuichi=me. :D
Just when everyone thought Kanon 2006 was finally gonna get an episode with a decent "clean-sheet" record of no gutter votes below 5 (when even our favourite serial gutter-voter voted a remarkably high 7), then comes fubar84 with his horrendously unforgivable mistake. lol

He must be reminded of this blunder for eternity by all Kanon 2006 fans in this board. While I pity the poor bastard, he kind of brought it upon himself. :D

Ascaloth

2007-02-26, 08:53

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y141/HyperionEnergy/whack.gif

From left to right: fubar84, Ascaloth

"That's for not looking where you were voting!" *WHACK*

:D

Kyuusai

2007-02-26, 09:24

rewatch of ep 21 .... for some reason I find Nayuki's voice just kind of entrancing to listen to .... she's got those frequencies really hitting the neural wires. Its a little unfortunate they had her rather backgrounded after the few episode or two (or in scenes reacting to Ayu) but I suppose that had to do with the amount she's going to get focused on her now.

Next episode is undoubtedly going to be pretty painful as the revelations start piling up.

だよね?

We haven't heard Nayuki sounding this nice since the beginning of first episode, this being her "intimate" voice, and that was just a brief moment.

I'm hoping next episode brings us more of that, but I know that next episode isn't exactly going to be easy to watch. :(

fubar84

2007-02-26, 09:53

Just when everyone thought Kanon 2006 was finally gonna get an episode with a decent "clean-sheet" record of no gutter votes below 5 (when even our favourite serial gutter-voter voted a remarkably high 7), then comes fubar84 with his horrendously unforgivable mistake. lol

He must be reminded of this blunder for eternity by all Kanon 2006 fans in this board. While I pity the poor bastard, he kind of brought it upon himself. :D

Please spare me, kind ecchi's and hentai's!! I meant no wrong, and whilst I concur that my actions were poor, thy must remember Jesus said: "Let the children come to me, love thy neighbour, and forgive fubar84s silly voting!"

Otherwise, uguuuuuuu... :sad:

Kinny Riddle

2007-02-26, 10:43

Please spare me, kind ecchi's and hentai's!! I meant no wrong, and whilst I concur that my actions were poor, thy must remember Jesus said: "Let the children come to me, love thy neighbour, and forgive fubar84s silly voting!"

Otherwise, uguuuuuuu... :sad:
Too bad, I'm not Christian. PREPARE TO DIE! :p Be grateful I didn't give you any neg reps. :D

On the other hand, you may try to redeem yourself by pleading with the mods that you made a mistake, since it is you who've made that vote. Though I doubt the mods would heed your pleading, in which case, let it be a lesson to you to look and think carefully before you vote, less you end up voting for a politician you hate to power by accident when you grow up. :D

fubar84

2007-02-26, 11:14

Too bad, I'm not Christian. PREPARE TO DIE! :p Be grateful I didn't give you any neg reps. :D

On the other hand, you may try to redeem yourself by pleading with the mods that you made a mistake, since it is you who've made that vote. Though I doubt the mods would heed your pleading, in which case, let it be a lesson to you to look and think carefully before you vote, less you end up voting for a politician you hate to power by accident when you grow up. :D

That is indeed a scary thought.. I shall retreat and whip myself with a hankerchief untill I learn what's right and wrong.

If the mods want to retract my besmudged vote, they can *plead* :p

Vexx

2007-02-26, 12:17

Meh.... the polls are transitory pain. :)

nikorai

2007-02-26, 13:42

im sorry i havent looked through the replies that have been made so far, im in a hurry today.
watched this episode. this is absolutely a 10. the only problem is that they left me in anticipation of the following events. it's really hard to wait till friday.
Speaking of U1. So it turns out he was mean and he forgot about it. He's not hopeless as we can see but it still think there's smth of a lunatic in him. Also he's extremely lucky that Nayuki is such a kind person. Were she like Kaede he'd surely be dead or disabled by this time.

p33gles

2007-02-26, 14:05

Well, I don't think that chibi Nayuki was trying to comfort chibi Yuichi. She hadn't a clue about what was happening and was trying to confess to him. When he didn't respond, it dawned on her finally that something was wrong and the rest is history.

Talk about clueless. Sorry, no sympathy from me for that scene. That was the worst case of poor timing I've seen.

The kid is sitting there crying I can't believe someone wouldn't think that was strange and ask what was wrong in the first place. Nevermind Nayuki... Blood is thicker than water... :)

Certainly one of the more dramatic episode endings... I was anticipating that something like that was going to happen, but to actually see it (they didn't show it happening in 2k2 did they?)...

I'm sure Akkiko-san will pull through... She's the all knowing person even though she doesn't say anything.

I know it's a bit beside the point, but how come no one tells Yuuichi what happened 7yrs ago? Akkiko-san did hint at the big tree being cut down, as did Nayuki about Ayu... But I suppose if they told him what happen there wouldn't be much of a story...

Yuuichi is suffering from post-traumatic stress coupled by amnesia which is a self-preservation mechanism. He associates everything to what happened 7yrs ago.

nikorai

2007-02-26, 14:39

speaking of the above, i guess a viewer is supposed to have an idea of what could happen 7 years ago, there had been some hints. personally it's mostly interesting for me as im one of a few people here who didnt play the game

Deathkillz

2007-02-26, 18:55

Well, I don't think that chibi Nayuki was trying to comfort chibi Yuichi. She hadn't a clue about what was happening and was trying to confess to him. When he didn't respond, it dawned on her finally that something was wrong and the rest is history.

Talk about clueless. Sorry, no sympathy from me for that scene. That was the worst case of poor timing I've seen.

Translation to modern day....

Nayuki: Yuichi, I've been looking for you.
Yuichi: sob, sob
Nayuki: You're going away for a long time, but you'll be back next year, right?
Yuichi: . . .
Nayuki: I made this snow bunny for you. I love you.
Yuichi: *Thinks of the events preceding this moment for the last time* Slaps that snow bunny out of her hand and thinks, "Man. she is clueless. I'm crying on the bench. My world is ending and she wants to confess."

In reality, a lot worse would have been said by some kids.

It's like modern day Nayuki. It finally dawned on her in the coffee shop that he loved Ayu. She's not tuned into Yuichi's feelings as much as Ayu was imo.

that is harsh T_T i wont blame nayuki for what she did...yea shes clueless but its cuase she is innocent and naive ~ cant hold a grudge to that face *melts*

she knew that yuuichi was going to leave for quite some time so decided to tell him her feelings before he leaves to get him to notice her...i gotta say yuuichi likes using nayuki for her own needs...*thinks back to him borrowing money to catch taht doll for ayu* but she didnt mind at all...

gah nayuki was just unlucky she caught him at a rather bad timing >.< but being clueless is part of her personality ~ so it would be more out of character for her to notice yuuichi crying :p

Sorrow-K

2007-02-26, 19:02

God Damnit! That accident scene was scary! If there were blood there then the impact on the viewers would be greater!Disagree with that actually. What made that scene so shocking was that it all happened in an instant. I think the subtle symbolism of the spilled cake was actually far more chilling than any blood spilling on the ground... which is actually something that's turned into a bit of a cliche in anime. I don't think KyoAni could have handled that scene better. They were aiming to be shocking, but by showing a bit of restraint they managed to make it more shocking than if they were completely explicit with everything, IMO (which, I'd argue, would have ruined the atmosphere had they gone too over-the-top).

Bloody Nightingale

2007-02-26, 19:15

that is harsh T_T i wont blame nayuki for what she did...yea shes clueless but its cuase she is innocent and naive ~ cant hold a grudge to that face *melts*

she knew that yuuichi was going to leave for quite some time so decided to tell him her feelings before he leaves to get him to notice her...i gotta say yuuichi likes using nayuki for her own needs...*thinks back to him borrowing money to catch taht doll for ayu* but she didnt mind at all...

gah nayuki was just unlucky she caught him at a rather bad timing >.< but being clueless is part of her personality ~ so it would be more out of character for her to notice yuuichi crying :p

Well, to be honest no one is really at fault, that's why its a tragedy. We cant blame U1 for he was already in a dangerously unstable condition after (*censored for spoiler*), and Nayuki was simply clueless of what's going on and tried to comfort U1 by telling him that she will always be by his side. When grief and care comes in contact at the wrong timing, tragedy arise.

New/Old

2007-02-26, 20:33

Heh heh. Yes, yes. That is indeed correct, Nightingale.

Hmm-hmm. One can only wonder what is to be done from this point on. What will happen next and in what sequence? It is a viewing time for me. To see what is to be done, but I cannot help but feel excited. The ride has been most pleasant and the ending stretch lies before. It is the wrap up that shall have me thinking upon and the winding stretch of events that won't feel as such until the very end.

Mirrinus

2007-02-26, 20:38

I concur as well.

It seems KyoAni is fairly consistant with high quality episodes as their shows come to a conclusion. Pulled off well, and it'll ensure Kanon 2006 a spot on my favorite anime list.

I can't really blame any character at this point. They all seem to be victims of circumstance.

orion

2007-02-26, 22:53

Raniie

2007-02-26, 23:04

She wasn't focusing much on Yuuichi when she was trying to confess to him. You might want to rewatch the scene again to understand why she wasn't aware of it right away.

Remember, she just finished making that snow bunny. It did took a lot of effort for her, just look at her fingers, they're all red. The pain and effort was still running thru her mind to notice what was wrong with Yuuichi. She was still a fair distance away from him, too. It's not until she got closer to notice something was wrong with him. From her distance point of view, he probably was just looking down, but from our view, we obviously know there is something wrong with him.

FatPianoBoy

2007-02-26, 23:16

But you guys are assigning mature thoughts in the head of a 10 yo. It doesn't happen that way. She was doing the basic "I love (have a crush) you." without noting that the kid is crying his eyes out on a bench. It dawned on her after a while to ask why. If she truly cared about him and not more about confessing and giving him the snow bunny she would have asked up front without the time delay.

I'd describe her as clueless and slightly selfish. She was more "Wow, I can confess before he leaves" and not "Hey, what's wrong." She dug her own grave imo.

*Nods*
Whether or not she intended to come across that way doesn't really matter, because that's how Yuuichi perceived it. Ayu would have forgotten all about confessing, dropped the snow bunny, and run up to him and immediately asked what was wrong. Nayuki, however, was too absorbed in what was going on with her to notice that something much more serious was going on with Yuuichi.

Clearly, this brings the Ayu vs. Nayuki battle to a satisfactory conclusion that Ayu > Nayuki.
[/sarcasm]

CrowKenobi

2007-02-27, 00:32

When I rewatched ep 21 with the a.f.k. sub, I had a strange thought: during the homework scene, Nayuki did the sleep on the floor bit on purpose! I think that she (for whatever reason) wanted to make sure what Yuuichi thought of her (in a romantic sense, of course). Well, we know what answer she got... :sad:

:cool:

Pellissier

2007-02-27, 03:24

rewatch of ep 21 .... for some reason I find Nayuki's voice just kind of entrancing to listen to .... she's got those frequencies really hitting the neural wires.
I very agree on this matter. In one of my previous post I stated as my admiration/liking for Nayuki is consistently grown in the last episodes (admiration coming just from this version, since there wasn't in 2002), and I'd say that 50% of the merit goes to the seiyuu (Kouda Mariko) for the wonderful performance. I'd seriously be in a pinch if I had to choose the best voice actor for this series, I'd rather compile a list of those who imho couldn't absolutely be replaced, and Nayuki's will probably be on the top there.

Can someone make me a gif of the scene where Yuuichi whacked Makoto one over the head with a newspaper?

Once that's done, I'm posting it up here just for fubar84. Makoto=fubar84, Yuuichi=me. :D
There was also an avatar sized gif of that scene that I made after episode 6 aired.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1290/06yuuichimakotoso1.gif

Auuu... just in case :p

Aatsuke

2007-02-27, 04:24

Well, I finally got around to watching this episode. Had to put it off until today due to a busy weekend. Although, with a cliffhanger ending like that, I'm almost happy I didn't watch it on day one.

Quite a good episode.

This has been one of my personal favorite episodes so far. KyoAni handled the revelations about the past quite well. I haven't been this engrossed in an episode of Kanon since back in the Mai arc (Don't get me wrong, the Shiori arc was great, it just didn't have as much of an impact on me as Mai's story did.)

My god, Nayuki is just too cute this entire episode. I especially liked the scene where she and Yuuichi were studying together. Too bad Nayuki had such terrible timing when she was little! It would have been interesting to see how Yuuichi would have responded in any other situation. I gotta hand it to her seiyuu, very well done. On the whole, I've liked her voice since episode one, but ep 21 really sealed the deal for me.

And the ending... Where should I start?

O_o

Very surprising, I felt the episode building up to something big but I didn't expect it to be that. I actually ended up choking on some ramen I was eating while watching it. One hell of a cliffhanger, going to be a very long week waiting for ep 22.

Lilith

2007-02-27, 05:16

One hell of a cliffhanger, going to be a very long week waiting for ep 22.
4/5 days left!! :D (Yes, I've been counting... I'm this much attached to Kanon right now :love:)

orion

2007-02-27, 09:34

4/5 days left!! :D (Yes, I've been counting... I'm this much attached to Kanon right now :love:)

That's my dilemma too. Do I watch it raw and potentially ruin my work day? Do I wait for the subs and potentially ruin my work day? Or do I wait for the weekend and be on pins and needles? :heh:

aliensporebomb

2007-02-27, 13:44

I was on vacation when 21 hit the streets so I'm thinking of doing a 21-22
one-two punch which I think I can do - I'll just watch something slightly less
stressful in the meantime.

You have to admit, the pace is starting to hit "take-off speed" here. We're
down to the wire.

Deathkillz

2007-02-27, 14:17

But you guys are assigning mature thoughts in the head of a 10 yo. It doesn't happen that way.
but isnt this the same for nayuki as well? being at the age of 10 or so kids are still pretty selfish ~ same way nayuki didnt notice or cared about yuuichi crying, yuuichi didnt care or have any second thoughts about slapping that bunny out of her hand ~ no ones to blame...kids that age are just generally just unaware of how their actions can hurt others ~ *thinks of my sister and still how immature she is :heh:*
When I rewatched ep 21 with the a.f.k. sub, I had a strange thought: during the homework scene, Nayuki did the sleep on the floor bit on purpose! I think that she (for whatever reason) wanted to make sure what Yuuichi thought of her (in a romantic sense, of course). Well, we know what answer she got... :sad:

:cool:
lol i doubt it...but can anyone say if anything happened in the game if this situation was original material? :p

New/Old

2007-02-27, 14:40

In the game, the study sessions are actually a series of events, each taking place in Nayuki's room for a consecutive number of nights and each with hilarity that ends each time with a talk between Nayuki and Yuuichi out on the balcony. They had to shorten it for this series, but the study sessions and the following talk on the balcony helped to chip in to Yuuichi remembering what happened between himself and Nayuki seven years ago.

After a few important events, it does eventually lead to... well. It eventually leads to the last 'study session' which takes place in Yuuichi's room where they culminate their relationship in more ways than one (Yes, it means what you think it means.). Of course, this all takes place before Akiko's car accident.

CrowKenobi

2007-02-27, 15:00

Were these 'study sessions' all just in Nayuki's route, or does some of them happen in other routes? (execpting the last one, of course! :D )

New/Old

2007-02-27, 15:01

Route Nayu-chan only, CrowKenobi. So, yes. Only in Nayuki. :heh:

Guardian Enzo

2007-02-27, 22:02

FatPianoBoy

2007-02-27, 22:22

we haven't seen our last Uguu yet...

Of course we haven't. Yuuichi will adopt the term and carry the legacy in remebrance :p

orion

2007-02-27, 23:54

Of course we haven't. Yuuichi will adopt the term and carry the legacy in remebrance :p

Oh man, that was cruel. :heh:

Uguu.

Lilith

2007-02-28, 01:31

LOL cruel indeed. And yes Guardian Enzo...

Uguu!

Z0Rr0rex

2007-02-28, 11:33

Uguuu Boku Ayu

New/Old

2007-02-28, 11:33

Snarkiness at its finest. :heh:

aliensporebomb

2007-02-28, 22:28

Heck, a character in a completely different show (Nodame Cantabile) seems to
have adopted it so all is not lost. The uguu army will live on despite the
apparent loss of its leader/originator.

Wow, would like to see the Nayuki route animated as an OVA, just to help
all the Nayuki shippers out - heck, even I was feeling bad for her at the end
of episode 21 (I couldn't wait - I just went and watched it). Stunner.

Member #1 of the uguu memorial army.

Merridew

2007-03-01, 01:21

Some people have been saying it looks like they'll head for a no-girl ending. That might happen in episode 24. Then the next 2 episodes might show the different endings for each different girl.

Vexx

2007-03-01, 02:40

Nice thought, but haven't seen any indication of "multi-endings" ... the "no girl" ending (which is actually a bit of a win for Nayuki I guess depending on the details) is just as likely as one of the 2 or 3 probable endings with Ayu or another Nayuki-type ending.

Don't mind me, I'm just enjoying the ride...

Kaioshin Sama

2007-03-02, 15:06

Okay I was watching a clip of this episode and

When Akiko got hit by the car it looked like she vanished as the car was hitting her, just blipped out of the picture. You would expect to see her body somewhere in the ensuing crash, but she's gone from the picture in a split second. It's just really weird. Not that I want to see somebody get horribly mangled, but the way it was done was bizarre. Having been both in a car crash as a kid with my mother at the wheel and hit by a car as a pedestrian a couple years ago, I can say that's not what happens. Luckily the car wasn't going that fast or I'd be toast, but I still ended up on the hood with a bruise and I don't recall disappearing.

Vexx

2007-03-02, 16:34

Mirrinus

2007-03-02, 16:43

Remember, a large car colliding with a human body is an example of an inelastic collision, not an elastic collision. ^_^

Richard 23

2007-03-02, 20:11

I'm probably going to get lynched for this, but am I the only one who just can't get behind Nayuki and Yuichi as a couple? Despite living together throughout the entire series they don't seem to have very much in common and up until recently have pretty much lived and acted like siblings.

I've got to hand it to you. This is the first cogent argument I've heard against Yuuichi x Nayuki that didn't boil down to ewwww, gross, cousins!

By the same token, however, I don't think there's been enough exposition for any of the girls to show that any of them have much in common other than they've met and have had conversations and perhaps mutual admiration or affection.

But then that's pretty much true for every relationship I've ever had. Well, for the most part. Within reason. We met, we talked, we liked each other. But then I'm single. So what do I know! Ha!

Well, at any rate. Off the beaten topic but still a nice try. I appreciate any argument that doesn't reduce to "gross! cooties!" Well done.

Kaioshin Sama

2007-03-03, 00:27

There's a very interesting security cam video on youtube of an actual auto-ped accident that is almost a frame by frame duplication of the accident (I would bet money they used it as their reference). In the scene, Akiko ends up under the roof of the car (which is quite crushible) and then the car slides. In essence, she vanishes, trapped under the car (though the roof gives so the entire weight isn't on her -- the car slides... possibly more gruesome though we'll hope the ice and snow mitigated some of it).

The animation *does* seem to have a one frame bobble where they should have shown her dropping ... but frankly the banal "silence" of the security-camera style rendition left me quite grim enough.

Seen too much of this played out in real life....

I bet that helps them save budget for animation a bit. Use other things as point of reference and trace over them. They did it with Haruhi too as you could see entire areas copied exactly from real life in the city. Why nobody else has thought of this I don't know as not only are you saving money, but your also adding a touch of realism to the anime.