Macross Frontier (Macross 25) general discussion [No Spoilers] [Archive] - Page 5

dahak

2008-03-17, 11:37

While Gundam seems to determined to show that only a small number of humans are willing to settle their differences and unite against even larger number of humans who cannot do that, and wish to destroy humanity. :rolleyes:

That seems to be the opposite of both 0083 and Zeta. Both of those are our heroes trying to deal with small splinter groups that don't want peace.

If the majority of the Federation had been in favor of the Titans behaviour and attitude they wouldn't have worried about Cha addressing the Federation Council for example.

And the AEUG and Karaba would never have found the support from civilian subscriptions to enable them to oppose the Federation's elite special forces on relativily even terms.

Gundam X is similar. There are all of 4 characters that want a war between Earth and the colonies and two of them get talked out of it.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-03-17, 15:16

Toshihiko was always amazing in Seed. People can bash Seed all they want, but not its all around outstanding OST.

Funny you mention Seed, i was watching it on satellites, (one of the few series that is broadcast in the UK Anime channel, besides kid cartoon channels)

Watched all the way to the end, and i can't for the life of me remember a single memorable music score, even from some of the scenes i can remember (i.e. the fight between kira and what-is-best-friend-name, robot bird flying in space etc etc)

Dunno what ears you have, but they certainly not the same as mine, as i can confidently say i was very underwhelmed by the soundtracks.

Well, except for the ending theme song, seem to remember that, especially when that mobile armour pilot sacrifice himself for his lover-captain, then the credits came after that, sort of made me blink my eyes.

as for "Ai Oboete Imasuka", after all these years, i can still bring up the memories of her singing on that transparent bridge, the explosions lighting her up, and the valkyries flashing and dying around her, as the song reach the chorus one on the many break though the stunned zentradi's, blows a hole in the mothership, the valkyrie flowing on the song itself, before reaching the big-head, pull out the bazooka and nails the bugger! god.

that song will remain with me forever.

Just the same as i can remember the chasing and quicken pace of the notes as gauld and dyson settle their rivalry amongst the test city, trading punches and tactics. it was beautiful.

As for GiTS, well maybe because i'm a Shirow Masumune Fan and love GiTS, Appleseed, Tank Police etc etc. That i really like the OST from them?

well maybe not Appleseed, the original nor the new ones. for some reason not really connecting to me on those remakes/adaptations.

Cowboy Bebop was a good OST too, i think yoko kanno did great on that too, and i watched that on the same channel as Gundam Seed was on, so maybe that's why i never noticed it's OST? drowned out by a superior one.

:p

Shiroth

2008-03-17, 17:55

Dunno what ears you have, but they certainly not the same as mine, as i can confidently say i was very underwhelmed by the soundtracks.
I can't begin to understand how someone who has good knowledge on musical scores, would say that about SEED's score.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-03-17, 18:00

I can't begin to understand how someone who has good knowledge on musical scores, would say that about SEED's score.

it's macross.

its makes everything else seem several shades pale in comparison.

Pity me.

:(

SuperKnuckles

2008-03-18, 01:51

Funny you mention Seed, i was watching it on satellites, (one of the few series that is broadcast in the UK Anime channel, besides kid cartoon channels)

Watched all the way to the end, and i can't for the life of me remember a single memorable music score, even from some of the scenes i can remember (i.e. the fight between kira and what-is-best-friend-name, robot bird flying in space etc etc)

Dunno what ears you have, but they certainly not the same as mine, as i can confidently say i was very underwhelmed by the soundtracks.

You seem to harbor some sort of an open grudge with the Gundam shows so I really can't take that as too genuine.. Also, dubbed versions tends to lower the music in most cases as well. Not to forget the inclusion of the OP/ED really adds to the whole thing. You say you haven't heard of one memorable track, I can remember at least a dozen or so from the top of my head. It makes me want to whip out the OST again.

as for "Ai Oboete Imasuka", after all these years, i can still bring up the memories of her singing on that transparent bridge, the explosions lighting her up, and the valkyries flashing and dying around her, as the song reach the chorus one on the many break though the stunned zentradi's, blows a hole in the mothership, the valkyrie flowing on the song itself, before reaching the big-head, pull out the bazooka and nails the bugger! god.

Too bad they rarely used that song at all. I thought all the different versions of Shao Pai Lon was great personally. Chinese pop. :heh:

Cowboy Bebop was a good OST too, i think yoko kanno did great on that too, and i watched that on the same channel as Gundam Seed was on, so maybe that's why i never noticed it's OST? drowned out by a superior one.

Respectfully disagreed. I think Bebop tends to get way too much credit even though it did have a very solid soundtrack. I mean, people keep finding ways to bury the Seed/Seed Destiny shows but they did have some pretty solid production at times. And I just don't see any evidence otherwise to suggest the OSTs aren't anything besides extraordinary.

Also, I think Toshihiko Sahashi isn't credited enough because he worked mostly with a lot of otherwise unimpressive manga ports and smaller works. Even shows like Gunslinger Girls was a relatively minor show compared to other shows in its time. A yet another great Toshihiko OST in that one.

The absolute truth. Toshihiko SEED score is pretty breath taking. You have your perfect epic battle themes, along with some emotional tracks that really make you feel for Kira and what is happening to him as a character. One of my favorite scores, for sure.

Seed Destiny also had a bevy of great ones as well. The guy just KNOWS how to do military-sounding tracks that is both upbeat and ends up sounding just fresh. If he did Macross Frontier, I would've cheered on top of my seat.

Funny enough, Kanno's Turn A Gundam score is not only my favorite work by her, it's pretty much my favorite score of all time. Just like the series, and how much it means to me.

Anyway that's enough off-topic i believe. I'm very much looking forward to hearing more of Kanno's work for Frontier. I don't think it's going to be the type of score that'll reach such a high place like her Macross Plus work, though i'd love to be proven wrong. Can't wait.

I don't think the bar is raised that highly. Macross Plus did have a lot of great songs but I don't think it really had the military-sounding background themes that would have to be prevalent in a full series. There's way more for Kanno to work with, as she did with Turn-A.

Ottocycle

2008-03-18, 04:39

Also, I think Toshihiko Sahashi isn't credited enough because he worked mostly with a lot of otherwise unimpressive manga ports and smaller works. Even shows like Gunslinger Girls was a relatively minor show compared to other shows in its time. A yet another great Toshihiko OST in that one.

Seed Destiny also had a bevy of great ones as well. The guy just KNOWS how to do military-sounding tracks that is both upbeat and ends up sounding just fresh. If he did Macross Frontier, I would've cheered on top of my seat.

I don't think the bar is raised that highly. Macross Plus did have a lot of great songs but I don't think it really had the military-sounding background themes that would have to be prevalent in a full series. There's way more for Kanno to work with, as she did with Turn-A.
I haven't been exposed to many scores, but I can safely say that Sahashi has some of the best brass instrument(in orchestra) work I've seen, for GS series, FMP series, Zipang, and other military series. Honestly speaking he might be a little lacking on the sentimental side for me though. I'd think Gunslinger Girl's score, however great it is(and I do think it's godly, ansia makes me swoon), was when he got lucky. Not to mention Katekyo Hitman Reborn's OST didn't really have much in the way of memorable tracks for me.

While for Kanno, she's way more adaptable than anything else, and she carves up a niche of her own with her very distinctive melding of different styles and genres. While her brass work is IMHO inferior to Sahashi's, she's way more adaptable than he is when it comes to things like OP/ED/Insert song composing , which is precisely what a franchise like Macross needs, what with the singing already being a standard trademark of this franchise. And since this isn't a purely military series with all bugles and trumpets, we'll be needing much more of a balanced soundtrack to complement all types of scenes properly.

And yes, Turn A Gundam OST FTW. Let's hear if Kanno can repeat that kind of performance in Frontier.

Shiroth

2008-03-18, 06:15

I don't think the bar is raised that highly. Macross Plus did have a lot of great songs but I don't think it really had the military-sounding background themes that would have to be prevalent in a full series. There's way more for Kanno to work with, as she did with Turn-A.
Yoko Kanno always knows how to draw us the viewers into the series we're watching with her music, and i just think that's what Macross Plus needed more then anything, and the score plays a very important part at key scenes in the story. I surely do hope she'll be able to do that again with Macross Frontier. It was shown with Turn A Gundam that is doesn't matter how many episodes the series must be.

FlareKnight

2008-03-18, 10:17

Well can't say I'm the best at judging different series music. Though I played tough to really put something I heard a while ago into a comparison.

At least the thread has done a good thing. Thought at least I could check out Macross Plus to try and get a look at things. Obviously a ton of things that are out there to watch. Really is something to see how much music had a role to play in that one.

Westlo

2008-03-18, 10:35

The lack of talk about Sahashi Toshihiko's Simoun score makes me sad, I'll rate OST 1 from Simoun as his best OST ever with Gundam SEED OST III being #2. If you liked his work on the SEED series than you should definately check out his Simoun score... Also while I really, really liked Yoko Kanno's TAG score I thought she did a better job with Brain Powered which imo is her best obscure work. *plays Power of Light*.

While for Kanno, she's way more adaptable than anything else, and she carves up a niche of her own with her very distinctive melding of different styles and genres. While her brass work is IMHO inferior to Sahashi's, she's way more adaptable than he is when it comes to things like OP/ED/Insert song composing , which is precisely what a franchise like Macross needs, what with the singing already being a standard trademark of this franchise. And since this isn't a purely military series with all bugles and trumpets, we'll be needing much more of a balanced soundtrack to complement all types of scenes properly.

I think people need to realize the points you brought up in this paragraph, while personally I wanted Taku Iwasaki to get the new Macross, with two pop singers in Sheryl and Ranka he wouldn't be able to handle the insert song composing. Also he's much more suited to the Bones Spring Title "Soul Eater".. the music from the trailer is awesome...

Sahashi Toshihiko for instance did an amazing job with the SEED scores but Yuki Kajiura had to handle every insert song as well as a fair portion of the ED themes. That's why Kanno is perfect for the job and so far she seems to be doing a great job, the two insert songs I really like and the BGM played from 19:30 onwards is just awesome.

Kanno did a fantastic job in Macross Plus, musically and vocally as Gabrielle Robins, in addition to every insert song which she knocked out the park, stuff like Dogfight was just amazing, the way that track is layered and built up is just perfect.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-03-18, 16:43

we really need a sub-forum.

so we can separate the many interesting topics here:

* Macross Music

* Enemy Speculation

* 25th Colony Fleet Discussion

* Macross Q&A

* Macross Universe Timeline speculation

* UN Spacy Armament Discussion

* Singing Seiyuu Discussion

Dammn, got enough here already.

feeling.....constraint.....neeeeed....sub-forum!..

D;

Kaioshin Sama

2008-03-18, 21:37

The only tracks from Brain Powerd I actually like were Ark, Ground Zero and the opener and ending. The rest of it just didn't do anything for me. For me her strongest OST is probably Turn A Gundam with Escaflowne a close second.

Westlo

2008-03-18, 22:32

I'm sure 4tran will be trying to get us a Macross sub forum Onizuka-GTO, heck I don't think he will have to try that hard since this thread is already over 1000 posts.... without a sub forum this thread will smash whatever record Kimikiss Pure Rogue sets for most posts in a single thread in this forum. I don't see anything else being more popular next season than Code Geass R2, Macross Frontier and Soul Eater.

Shiroth

2008-03-18, 22:54

For me her strongest OST is probably Turn A Gundam with Escaflowne a close second.
A man who knows what he is on about. Lets just hope she'll reach that strong level yet again with Frontier.

Kaioshin Sama

2008-03-18, 23:22

SuperKnuckles

2008-03-19, 01:53

Yoko Kanno always knows how to draw us the viewers into the series we're watching with her music, and i just think that's what Macross Plus needed more then anything, and the score plays a very important part at key scenes in the story. I surely do hope she'll be able to do that again with Macross Frontier. It was shown with Turn A Gundam that is doesn't matter how many episodes the series must be.

I somewhat disagree. Because a longer series needs more variety and even a general theme song (usually theme song's') to compensate for the situations that has to sound unique.

Even the Mai Otome OVAs and Macross Plus, as great as they were, really didn't need to hinge on too many pieces compared to the typical 26-50 episode shows. I think the trend is definitely there when listening to the actual OSTs. The actual number of the tracks is obviously higher in 2 cour+ shows. Also in general experience, I think the actual themery of the music tends to be more ambitious, such as having remixes of the same theme to various effect and so forth.

The lack of talk about Sahashi Toshihiko's Simoun score makes me sad, I'll rate OST 1 from Simoun as his best OST ever with Gundam SEED OST III being #2. If you liked his work on the SEED series than you should definately check out his Simoun score... Also while I really, really liked Yoko Kanno's TAG score I thought she did a better job with Brain Powered which imo is her best obscure work. *plays Power of Light*.

I never watched Simoun but I'd be willing to download more OSTs of his. To me, the guy needs more popular shows to work on to get more recognized. I mean, even Toshi Masuda seems to have more visibility as a composer even when the only major stuff he did was Jubei Chan, Naruto and Mushishi. Albeit those were some incredible OSTs he worked on.

I think people need to realize the points you brought up in this paragraph, while personally I wanted Taku Iwasaki to get the new Macross, with two pop singers in Sheryl and Ranka he wouldn't be able to handle the insert song composing. Also he's much more suited to the Bones Spring Title "Soul Eater".. the music from the trailer is awesome...

Exactly. Leave the composition of the insert songs to others. I don't think it matters if the composer actually had direct input or not. Get the specialist who does the thing and put them in there. It has worked for countless anime. Freakishly multi-tasking composers like Kanno are a rarity. I don't think it's entirely fair to judge everyone by the same standard as her.

Sahashi Toshihiko for instance did an amazing job with the SEED scores but Yuki Kajiura had to handle every insert song as well as a fair portion of the ED themes. That's why Kanno is perfect for the job and so far she seems to be doing a great job, the two insert songs I really like and the BGM played from 19:30 onwards is just awesome.

Kanno did a fantastic job in Macross Plus, musically and vocally as Gabrielle Robins, in addition to every insert song which she knocked out the park, stuff like Dogfight was just amazing, the way that track is layered and built up is just perfect.

Wait. Yuki Kajiura did inserts for Seed scores... Can you even imagine how incredible the inserts would be if Kajiura did Macross Frontier? Christ, I consider Kajiura one of the best insert song composers in the entire business. Just like with Toshihiko though, I do think best days are ahead of her. Now she strikes gold at everything she composes. Though in the end, it's a win win situation whether it'd be Kanno, Kajiura, Toshihiko or any other incredibly talented composers at the helm.

germanturkey

2008-03-22, 00:11

If Kanno did the actual OST and Kajiura did the inserts/EDs, Frontier would be absolute gold from the music itself. i'm a few days late to the discussion, but Kanno's best OST was definitely Escaflowne. The few songs from Turn A i heard were good, but not as good in my ears as Escaflowne. As for Kajiura, her inserts for SEED speak volumes about her ability.

Westlo

2008-03-22, 06:52

Macross Plus Inserts (Not counting Information High) > SEED Inserts (Not Counting Meteor, ZIPS the T.M Revolution song from the Special Edition is tight as fuck btw)

Shiroth

2008-03-22, 06:56

The few songs from Turn A i heard were good
To full appreciate a soundtrack, i've always said that one has to hear it within the series first, before going onto solo listening. That way you're not just listening to the music, it's apart of you from your experience with that series. This works wonders with Turn A Gundam.

Westlo

2008-03-22, 07:07

Moon is just an amazing song period.

Shiroth

2008-03-22, 07:13

Moon is just an amazing song period.
Indeed it is, though it's a piece of music that means a lot to be because of it's involvement with the series. Especially two of the scenes it's used for.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-03-22, 07:32

ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHH!!

This is Gun-filth-dam!

*kicks everyone off a cliff*

NO.THIS IS MACROSS!

RRAAAWWRR!!

SuperKnuckles

2008-03-22, 07:55

Macross Plus Inserts (Not counting Information High) > SEED Inserts (Not Counting Meteor, ZIPS the T.M Revolution song from the Special Edition is tight as fuck btw)

To me they were around equal quality. Macross Plus had a few great ones but many of them just sounded like background themery (in that beautiful way), Kanno style. While Seed seemed to want to blast it out as frontrunning songs. Both great for what they were.

As for Moon, I agree it was one of Kanno's stronger song efforts, though I think the general opinion is actually a bit split compared to some of her other works such as Macross Plus or Escaflowne songs (then again, Turn A was largely a love it or a hate it thing with Gundam fans due to its incredible uniqueness. Even the way the OST was composed by Kanno was a bit unconventional in its light tone compared to the more militaristic tone of just about all the other Gundam or Macross show).

As for the whole 'hearing the music with the series', I have to disagree with that personally. I listened to the Turn A tracks way before watching it whole and I thought it stood for itself. Ditto to a lot of Kajiura/Toshihiko stuff (I never even knew what Seed was until after listening to an OST. Then catching it all up).

Of course, I watched Macross Plus and was introduced to the music that way. Just different eras in terms of watching anime and fansubs I guess. Downloading OSTs via torrent was just that much easier and let me be introduced to the music quicker instead of actively searching it out I guess.

Shiroth

2008-03-22, 08:45

As for the whole 'hearing the music with the series', I have to disagree with that personally. I listened to the Turn A tracks way before watching it whole and I thought it stood for itself. Ditto to a lot of Kajiura/Toshihiko stuff (I never even knew what Seed was until after listening to an OST. Then catching it all up).
Sure, listening to the musical score can be one of the best reasons for checking out a series. I know a lot of times i end up checking out a series for who the composer was --- i'm just saying that going from personal experiences, listening to the score within the series first works out better in the end.

Westlo

2008-03-25, 09:23

Has anyone found any good fanart of Sheryl or Ranka Lee lately?

D a m i e n

2008-03-25, 09:27

when is eps 2 (or 1.1) supposed to go on TV?
did they blew the whole serie budget on eps1? was eps1 just the staff having fun and the real serie will drop in visual quality?

Westlo

2008-03-25, 09:33

They have had at least 3 months to work on the next couple of episodes and that is if we assume that episode 1 was the only completed one at the time it premiered. For all we know at december 26h they could've had 6 episodes already done and since than now have 15 finished. IIRC and even if I do I can't confirm it I.G had 12 episodes of GITS SAC already animated when the first episode was shown, or so I read I have no confirmation on that so if I'm flat out wrong someone please let me know. One of the biggest I.G fans I know (haven't seen him on the forum I knew him from in over a year) online said that so that's the only reason I even mentioned it.

Anyway the scenes from episode 2 I saw in PV 2 look just as good.

lixuelai

2008-03-25, 12:11

What I'm waiting for is Ranka's version of Ai Oboete Imasu ka?.

Isnt the ending theme sang by Ranka aka Megumi Nakajima?

I thought it sounded quite good (if it is indeed by her and ANN seems to confirm that). Im curious how Nakamjima will live up to Iijima's precedence. All the songs by Iijima in the original SD is legendary. I doubt she will be surpassed but I hope Nakajima can do a good job. Hopefully Ranka will have some songs like Ai wa Nagareru Part I and II. Amazing stuff, really showed what what Minmay was about. Hopefully Ranka doesnt end up like Minmay though, Minmay was such a tragic character.

p.s. My favorite Yoko Kanno song will have to be Tsuki no Mayu. The best Gundam track since the original IMO.

lixuelai

2008-03-25, 12:31

ignore Thohell, he just doesn't appreciate the religious devotion i have to this series.

While 4Trans & Superknuckle more or less explained it to you, the one major factor you will appreciate in Macross is that while it's an mecha anime and therefore feature a lot of technology. The emphasis is not on the "amazing" and "powerful" weapons one side has over the other, but the celebration of standard issued or simply a better weapon model that can only be enhanced by the skill of the pilots.

In Gundam, there is something similiar in that while the technology mix in experimental with mass-production the focus is on those special "units" who are more or less equally matched, so it drops down to the skill of the pilots.

in macross it is more less the reverse, the units the pilots used are all related and more or less have the equal, no one unit stands above the rest, nor have any real advantages.

It more less drops down to the skill and courage of the pilots.

Another difference is that in Macross universe,

MENTALLY UNSTABLE TEENAGERS DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO PILOT MULTI-BILLION WORTH OF MILITARY EQUIPMENT.
:rolleyes:

Level headed and sometimes hot headed, but always qualified.

The fact is that Macross is pretty much anti-war in it's ethics, that cultural theme is the best way to settle disputes and worlds.

But they don't lack the courage to fight for their survival in this hostile universe.

Gundam always looks within the conflict and flaws of the human race always presenting a pessimistic view on our species

Macross sees the BEST in humans, it is the optimist of the space drama.

Humans are strong when we are united, when we are against the rest of the universe.

That's not to say the internal conflict did not happen, you have only to look to Macross Zero, and the beginning of the first series to know that the humans of the Macross universe have suffered at another global and unifying war, and even GENOCIDE!
Culture specifically Proto-culture saved the human race, and it is a means to a civilized existences the battles we see are merely the icing on the cake as they reach out to progress to a greater goal!!

*gasp*

MACROSS HALLOW BY THY NAME!!!

*sprinkle holy lubricant oil everywhere*

:frustrated::D

Lol excellent points. I just love how people finishes all the Gundams and look for more mecha and finds Macross. I dont consider Macross a mecha anime. It is more of the space drama type, more comparable to Sekai no Senki. The mecha in Macross serve a purpose. Unlike Gundams which makes you scratch your head thinking why it is needed, Macross mecha (the variable fighter namely) makes perfect sense from their history.

Westlo

2008-03-25, 19:33

Isnt the ending theme sang by Ranka aka Megumi Nakajima?

I thought it sounded quite good (if it is indeed by her and ANN seems to confirm that).

ANN is correct.

4Tran

2008-03-25, 22:18

Isnt the ending theme sang by Ranka aka Megumi Nakajima?
Yes, and I believe that the last phrase was sang by Iijima Mari herself (either taken from an old vocal track, or as a new recording).

Lol excellent points. I just love how people finishes all the Gundams and look for more mecha and finds Macross. I dont consider Macross a mecha anime. It is more of the space drama type, more comparable to Sekai no Senki. The mecha in Macross serve a purpose. Unlike Gundams which makes you scratch your head thinking why it is needed, Macross mecha (the variable fighter namely) makes perfect sense from their history.
I'm not sure that I'd go that far. Variable fighters are less plausible than their Gundam counterparts since they tend to be both more complex and more advanced (in general). However, they truly are treated like plain war machines in a way that's rather unusual to most mecha anime. And in fact, they could have been replaced by regular fighters without changing a whole lot in terms of the story.

lixuelai

2008-03-26, 00:24

I'm not sure that I'd go that far. Variable fighters are less plausible than their Gundam counterparts since they tend to be both more complex and more advanced (in general). However, they truly are treated like plain war machines in a way that's rather unusual to most mecha anime. And in fact, they could have been replaced by regular fighters without changing a whole lot in terms of the story.

In the original SD it was stated that the variable fighters were designed after Macross crash landed on earth and humans became aware of the existence of giants in space. The humanoid form is to enable "miclones" to fight on the same level as a giant. IMO its a better reason than Gundams. Im not talking about technical difficulty.

SuperKnuckles

2008-03-26, 03:14

To me, the only difference between a Gundam and a Variable Fighter is that the VFs more resemble our technology and what the apparent need for a transformable fighter would entail if it ever comes to that. But I wouldn't rule out the plausibility of a Gundam type mobile suit if it performs in such high capacity as it tends to do (especially when it concerns atmospheric and highly maneuverable space flight. That and the staple of Gundams: the apparently much superior-than-ballistics beam sabers and beam guns).

Speaking of the whole 'humanoid battroids built to combat giants' thing, you would think they could have built something like Gundams instead of having them transform all the time if they could have.

Then again, I just love both franchises on an almost equal terms so..

Westlo

2008-03-26, 08:28

SuperKnuckles

2008-03-26, 10:55

I prefer the way that variable fighters are used compared to Gundams, as cool as hand to hand combat is it's not what you would consider somewhat realistic. I mean c'mon as "cool" as episode 22 of 00 was the last scene reminded me of DBZ for a sec with the super speed melee unit zipping all over the place hitting its opponent.

You're missing the point I was trying to make: because how would you know how applicable these types of machines will be in the future? Is there some rule that says all piloted warmachines have to look like conventional 20th century planes? Obviously not. Different universes, different rules. It doesn't matter how realistic it looks to us. It's science fiction. Other than that, I agree with you on the cool factor of the Battroid modes and all. Again, the conventional wisdom doesn't and IMO, shouldn't dictate the actual mecha designs of a show. Let's face it: both Macross and Gundam have far too many fantastical 'sci fi' elements for it to be realistic for our world or anything in the next probable 200-300 years.

Really, it irks me when people put 'realism' as the sticking point for mecha. If it's anything like Gundam/Patlabor/Ghost in the Shell/Macross level, I'm fine with it. We can basically nitpick how unrealistic any single element is forever. To me, that's just plain not fun. I've gone through that discussion at least for a thousand posts in other forums. In the end, I think it's all about selling the action and the cool factor most of all. Does those Macross VFs really need the dozens of reactive warheads to fire all at once? No, but does it matter? No, it looks cool.

Also 4tran is correct about Iijima Mari signing the last phrase, I got a chuckle talking to someone IRL who said it sucked compared to the Iijima Mari version. Me- "Even the last line", Friend "Yep", Me "But Iijima Mari did that line herself" Friend "...."

Sorta hard to tell without a closer analysis though. I wouldn't blame 'em. :heh:

Westlo

2008-03-26, 11:10

Well on one level I find the concept of humanoid mechas absurd but I really have no problems with it, I grew up watching the americanized versions of Macross and Mazinger Z along with Transformers, mecha was my main anime staple along with sci-fi and fantasy until last year.

Anyway I just finished watch the movie edition of Plus and I liked a lot of the additions to it, I'm going to have to watch the ovas again to see what got removed and than decide which version I prefer. Also if I had a dollar for every time I've been asked if it's okay to watch Frontier without having seen any other Macross I would have over $20 by now...

lixuelai

2008-03-26, 11:18

psme

2008-03-26, 21:22

Like 4tran said you could replace the variable fighters with regular ones and much wouldn't be changed though it would of course lose it's coolness factor. I'm trying to recall any intense hand to hand fighting in Macross and all I can think of is a short section of the Macross Plus fight in episode 4 between Isamu and Guld. And really I liked how they portrayed that and it didn't focus on it, made the section so much better since it rarely happened in Macross before.

I think there are many hand fighting scenes in the original Macross TV series. After that the need for hand fighting seems much reduced as there is much less gaint to fight with! :heh:

regards,

Li On

4Tran

2008-03-26, 22:03

Really, it irks me when people put 'realism' as the sticking point for mecha. If it's anything like Gundam/Patlabor/Ghost in the Shell/Macross level, I'm fine with it. We can basically nitpick how unrealistic any single element is forever. To me, that's just plain not fun. I've gone through that discussion at least for a thousand posts in other forums. In the end, I think it's all about selling the action and the cool factor most of all. Does those Macross VFs really need the dozens of reactive warheads to fire all at once? No, but does it matter? No, it looks cool.
That's true to a point, but keep in mind that it's common for certain people to constantly praise their favorite show for it's realism, even when it's completely unwarranted. And there comes a point when the excesses of the plot or writing or designs or choreography overwhelm its fun factor.

The variable fighters were built for combat in the atmosphere. It makes more sense for it to transform.
It makes sense for the fighters to have a "Fighter" form, but the Battroid and Gerwalk forms are still sort of superfluous from a realism standpoint.

I think there are many hand fighting scenes in the original Macross TV series. After that the need for hand fighting seems much reduced as there is much less gaint to fight with! :heh:
There wasn't all that much hand to hand combat in SDF Macross - maybe four or five occurrences in the whole show. And of those times, most of them were due to desperation measures as opposed to the melee > ranged combat rule that's so prevalent in most mecha shows.

psme

2008-03-26, 22:22

There weren't all that much hand to hand combat in SDF Macross - maybe four or five occurrences in the whole show. And of those times, most of them were due to desperation measures as opposed to the melee > ranged combat rule that's so prevalent in most mecha shows.

That few? Maybe it's time to rewatch the DVD boxset before the new series starts! :heh: Besides actual hand combat, I think there are some scenes in Battroid and Gerwalk mode in order to move around in the battleship. Also the Battroid and Gerwalk mode works in urban fighting too. All in all, the transformable mecha is designed for a reason and need.

regards,

Li On

Westlo

2008-03-26, 22:30

Well thinking back I can remember that Britai whipped some serious ass when they tried to fight him in hand to hand combat during the episode they get into the battleship. My general point is that I like how Macross is not melee > ranged which like 4 tran said is a combat rule prevalent in most mecha shows.

SuperKnuckles

2008-03-27, 02:31

The whole Britai thing was silly in a good way. The whole culture shock thing coming onto the viewers. :heh:

Hopefully the new insects in Frontier will do the same. I always loved insect aliens. Zergs, Martian bugs in Starship Troopers, etc. Bring it on.

Westlo

2008-03-27, 02:36

SuperKnuckles

2008-03-27, 02:43

Haha, yikes. The OP sounds like it'd fit in perfectly with a harem/romance story.

aardvark

2008-03-27, 02:48

Okay I just listened to the unmixed/demo version of Triangler and it's shaping up nicely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YqFMlitk_E

Btw a 30sec CM... Fangasms at 0:12 second mark as well as 0:16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGj4X2PlWhM
Sounds a LOT like the songs that Kanno did with AKINO in Aquarion

Not really what I was expecting, but this is nice too.

Westlo

2008-03-27, 03:36

I think I'm going to be burnt out on this song before I can even listen to it in good quality.

Shiroth

2008-03-27, 07:22

Sounds a LOT like the songs that Kanno did with AKINO in Aquarion
Yeah, just what i was thinking.

Hmm, i guess it works for me as a Macross OP. Also i was never expected it to sound like anything. It's kanno so it's always a bit risky to do that. But yeah i like it, look forward to hearing it with OP animation, and single release.

Westlo: So stealing the quote from your sig for my sig. :p

pinoy78

2008-03-28, 15:21

01: (Close Encounter)，2008.04.03
02： (Hard Chase)，2008.04.10
03： (On Your Marks)，2008.04.17
04： (Miss Macross)，2008.04.24

pinoy78

2008-03-28, 15:28

Onizuka-GTO

2008-03-28, 15:49

Speaking of the whole 'humanoid battroids built to combat giants' thing, you would think they could have built something like Gundams instead of having them transform all the time if they could have.

you know that makes sense, logically if you have come to the conclusion that you were going to face a race of giants, who has equipment that suggest that they possibility of hand-to-hand confrontation is a possible threat, then to match them you will have to at leased conceive of a technological aid, in the shape of some construct.

In my opinion i think the solution was answered in the battroid configuration.

we know that the humanoid walker system that was used by the UN Army was more or less conceived at the same time the Valkyries were designed.

actually some source seem to show that the battroid were constructed first, logically we have to consider they were constructed with hand-like limbs as well.

However, i think the valkyries were conceived to solve the problem when confronted in zero-gee environment, in that they can fight in a high speed battle, yet when they came to the immense capital ships they can inflitrate and act as Marines to board and attack from within.

This dual functionality only makes sense when you have ships of incredible size, as at the time they did not even know if the Macross gunship main weapons or any of the humans own weapons can destroy a zentradi capital ship of that size, so infiltration/boarding becomes a serious tactics.

however ever, if ships were of human size such as gundam like, then i think the valkyrie-to-battroid mode would never of been considered.

hell i don't think the humanoid form would ever of been considered at all.

in this regards, th idea of confronting large giant aliens make more sense for the mecha in Macross then the mecha in Gundam.

It just seems such a weak argument in my opinion, that Gundams reason for the humanoid form is better zero-gee battle performance, of a multi-limbed design, blah blah blah. really, that's a nice story but doesn't seriously seems to be that convincing compared to the alien giants.

:)

Westlo

2008-03-28, 16:02

We need to spread the gospel of Nyan Nyan Shiroth :D

04： (Miss Macross)，2008.04.24

Awesome! Ranka making her move to stardom already? Sheryl as a guest judge? Or does Alto dress in drag and try and take the crown? What will he do if there's a swimsuit section!!?? Oh I love Macross.

I love the OP already...

I've probably listened to it 40 times since I posted that youtube link, I was hoping for something as good as Hemisphere and Sousei no Aquarion and Traingler could be. It's just a question of whether I will still love it in 6/3 years time like those two songs.

On another note I watched the first 10 minutes of the DYRL Remastered DVD rip, gorgeous.

Kaioshin Sama

2008-03-28, 18:57

Okay I just listened to the unmixed/demo version of Triangler and it's shaping up nicely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YqFMlitk_E

Btw a 30sec CM... Fangasms at 0:12 second mark as well as 0:16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGj4X2PlWhM

Ugh, way to squeally and high pitched at some points. Not my type of opening at all.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-03-28, 20:18

Ugh, way to squeally and high pitched at some points. Not my type of opening at all.

you are a freak.

what man doesn't find a woman's trembling yet highly erotic high pitched squealing not appealing? if only in the satisfaction of a job well done? :rolleyes::p

DragoonKain3

2008-03-28, 21:51

Ugh, way to squeally and high pitched at some points. Not my type of opening at all.
For once, I wholeheartedly agree with Kaoishin. >_>

That said, I'm still going to give the OP another chance, as that was obviously very low quality. Don't think it will change though...

pinoy78

2008-03-28, 22:41

Awesome! Ranka making her move to stardom already? Sheryl as a guest judge? Or does Alto dress in drag and try and take the crown? What will he do if there's a swimsuit section!!?? Oh I love Macross.

According to the Manga.

Sheryl Nome is one of the guest judges.

Westlo

2008-03-29, 07:09

Onizuka-GTO

2008-03-29, 08:53

mayaa sakamoto sings the song pretty well, i have to agree that the the recording that we seem to have on youtube is a very poor version, i think i'll reserve judgement until i hear it in a clearer version.

however the tune is catchy and i won't deny that i like it, besides in the original macross the songs were high pitch as well.

it only started with macross plus when the songs were sung by a more "mature" voice.

Shiroth

2008-03-29, 08:57

mayaa sakamoto sings the song pretty well, i have to agree that the the recording that we seem to have on youtube is a very poor version, i think i'll reserve judgement until i hear it in a clearer version.
That i can agree with. Already i'm enjoying just listening to the track, though how it works as an OP is a different story --- at the moment i can see it working, though who knows what i think now will come true.

Shame as well, 'cause we won't see it in action until the second episode.

Westlo

2008-03-29, 09:03

A lot of people on Macross World for some reason think there will be an OP in the first episode, I'm like thinking... didn't you guys see the Macross Frontier title screen after the first scene? Not to mention Kawamori doesn't generally show the OP in the first episode (which is something I like!) as seen in Escaflowne, Arjuna (I think!) and Aquarion. Anyway it will be interesting to see what they cut out from the 27 minute version (I saw it called directors cut on ANN when it first came out) we have already seen.

EDIT - I just checked out the remastered Escaflowne first episode and it has the OP in it, didn't it start without an OP? Was the OP included for the remastered DVD release?

Mgz

2008-03-29, 15:05

I like the OP, decent OP that suitable to the anime of the scale of Macross, gives me the raxephone vibe and the violin is a nice touch...

anyway Gundam 00 is over, time for me to camp Macross and Code Geass board :D

Cadorna

2008-03-29, 20:38

i want macross on forummmm

germanturkey

2008-03-29, 21:21

^^ agreed. how can they not give a sub forum for a show of this magnitude..

still haven't visited the gundam board yet.. only 1 more day.. haha

Onizuka-GTO

2008-03-30, 01:40

^^ agreed. how can they not give a sub forum for a show of this magnitude..

that's because the series hasn't even "officially" been aired yet.

But that's not bad if you consider we are 2,000+ post away from beating popular threads such as KimiKiss Pure Rouge, 1,000+ away from the D-grey & Rosario + Vampire and etc. who has 12+ episodes aired already.

:p

Imagine, after the first episodes goes on, this thread gonna jump pass 3,000 then when the 2nd comes, 5,000! ok. maybe not so much, but you get the point.

At this rate, it'll be scandalous if they don't make a Macross forum.

actually, i'm quite surprise there wasn't one already.

I mean for me, i can't mention Gundam without hearing the other side of the coin, of Macross.

seriously.

its a travesty that they don't.

It's discrimination against "real" mecha i tell you. :rolleyes:

SuperKnuckles

2008-03-30, 01:48

I have no problem with how it's going on this thread even if it remains that way. A bit cluttered and all, but there's been a ton of great discussion already. So yeah, it'd be optimal if there is a new forum. Hopefully we'll see a slew of them for the bigger shows in April.

ipernorris

2008-03-30, 03:07

The episode which is going to be aired will be called 1 or 2? :confused:

SuperKnuckles

2008-03-30, 03:14

The episode which is going to be aired will be called 1 or 2? :confused:

From all the listings, website information and the magazine rumors, the first ep will be a reshowing. The week later will be ep 2. Makes sense.

Kaioshin Sama

2008-03-30, 03:28

^ Thought so

Also I'm not surprised you don't like the OP Kaoishin, what do you prefer between Triangler and Don't Be Late. I'm reading a lot of people on Macross World complaining about Triangler replacing Don't Be Late and funnily enough these people were slamming it back in December/January.

Don't Be Late far and away. It's not a song I'd listen to in my playlist, but it's still a listenable and fairly catchy song. Triangler I honestly had to turn down a lot and even then it still hurt my ears. It really surprises me as this is not Maaya Sakamoto's usual style. She's not a screecher and is behind several of my all time favourite anime themes (Yakusoku Wa Iranai and Hemisphere). I've always liked her for her ability to put passion and feeling into her singing and to just sound natural and pleasant when she sings and this is literally the polar opposite of that. It sounds hollow and uncontrolled. Definitely no Yakusoku Wa Iranai.

If this is how it goes through in it's final version then I will no longer consider Maaya Sakamoto my favourite female singer. It's literally that bad to me to the point where I might have to skip the opening and if it's in the show at all it could really hurt my enjoyment of it a lot. I hope this is not the standard for most vocal songs in the series or we are in trouble.

Edit: I found another more complete version of the song. (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=rg2Fi5KWURE) I still have heavily mixed feelings about it overall, but at least it doesn't sound quite so god awful anymore. I really still don't like the chorus though most of all. It still sounds pitchy and uncontrolled. Still no Yakusoku Wa Iranai.

herbert

2008-03-30, 05:07

that's because the series hasn't even "officially" been aired yet.

But that's not bad if you consider we are 2,000+ post away from beating popular threads such as KimiKiss Pure Rouge, 1,000+ away from the D-grey & Rosario + Vampire and etc. who has 12+ episodes aired already.

:p

Imagine, after the first episodes goes on, this thread gonna jump pass 3,000 then when the 2nd comes, 5,000! ok. maybe not so much, but you get the point.

At this rate, it'll be scandalous if they don't make a Macross forum.

actually, i'm quite surprise there wasn't one already.

I mean for me, i can't mention Gundam without hearing the other side of the coin, of Macross.

seriously.

its a travesty that they don't.

It's discrimination against "real" mecha i tell you. :rolleyes:
If I remember correctly, there was a precedent of sub-forum created before series actually aired. But it's only because it had generated over 3000 posts just for speculation and anticipation. Macross's traffic is enough to ensure a sub-forum when it starts but not enough to make before starts.

ipernorris

2008-03-30, 09:57

From all the listings, website information and the magazine rumors, the first ep will be a reshowing. The week later will be ep 2. Makes sense.
LOL the audience will be quite low this way... it would have been more logic to do some prequel thingy in Christmas and now starting with the true show.
Who cares about something already seen? Not to mention you can see whenever you like just by downloading it from Internet?

terrus

2008-03-30, 11:34

Seriously? So this means that there won't be a new episode until the 10th?

Westlo

2008-03-30, 11:42

01: (Close Encounter)，2008.04.03
02： (Hard Chase)，2008.04.10
03： (On Your Marks)，2008.04.17
04： (Miss Macross)，2008.04.24

We have known about this for ages... what we have seen was pretty much a preview..

ipernorris

2008-03-30, 11:51

We have known about this for ages... what we have seen was pretty much a preview..
Excuse me if I don't follow this thread hourly... :D

Mgz

2008-03-30, 18:46

From all the listings, website information and the magazine rumors, the first ep will be a reshowing. The week later will be ep 2. Makes sense.

god damn ittttt

:/

I know for sure that the kid can beat the monster, but I am still curious to find out how they're gonna do it, now I have to wait 10 more day :(

aardvark

2008-03-30, 19:58

WOWOW did this with Ergo Proxy. Had a preview of the first episode, and then when the show started for real, they re-aired it. H.wever it had a lot of animation differences.

The new version of episode 1 will probably have some differences, both in length and animation

Westlo

2008-03-30, 21:33

Am I the only one looking forward to spotting the differences? Heck I've seen the first episode 6 times already why not one more time!

Elehayym

2008-03-30, 21:55

Edit: I found another more complete version of the song. (http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=rg2Fi5KWURE) I still have heavily mixed feelings about it overall, but at least it doesn't sound quite so god awful anymore. I really still don't like the chorus though most of all. It still sounds pitchy and uncontrolled. Still no Yakusoku Wa Iranai.
The screeching effect of the chorus when I first listened to those bootleg versions of the opening annoyed me too x_x But then looking at the 30s trailer that has been posted here too, it sounds already MUCH better, so I'm definitely hoping for the complete version.
In the bootleg version the higher parts hurt my ears too :heh: But in the trailer even tho especially a particular line of the chorus stays dangerously high, it doesn't damage my hearing anymore XD

Westlo

2008-03-30, 21:59

Elehayym

2008-03-30, 22:33

You really shouldn't judge a song in its unmixed state, mixing does a lot for any musical song, in some genres the difference between a good mixer and a bad one is massive. I posted it originally as more of a preview than anything else. If you loved the preview like I did than it's all good, if not you should probably wait until a proper version is out though the one Kaoishin posted is much better than the one I did.
Well my point was exactly that if the bits that can be heard in the trailer, even with the voiceover and generally bad quality, already sound quite different, the weird parts of unmixed version aren't gonna carry on to the final one (in particular that "screeching" effect of the high pitched parts of the chorus, that I found to actually bother my ears and not cause I don't like the tune - that is quite catchy indeed). I wasn't saying that it hurts my ears as in meaning that it's an awful song, but cause with earphones and youtube volume kinda high I actually had to lower it cause it was bothering me ^^;

Wasn't judging the song at all but just trying to point at how some problems stay with the bad quality of unmixed version D: Sorry if it didn't come across as what I intended.

hai_san

2008-03-31, 00:25

cool i just heared "Triangler", it is very nice, can't await to hear it in better "quality" then youtube. "Don't be late" is already very nice song when i heared it the first time, rumors was it would be the OP but then the bam the producers present us with another uber song as OP. Macross is just great. Full of surprise.

IHaveCrayons

2008-03-31, 00:53

God I can't wait for Macross Frontier at all. I've been waiting since the first episode came out in December and I was blown away by how much action there was just in the first episode. The setting and art style are FABULOUS, much better than Gundam 00 in my opinion. The CG graphics are great as usual, but I'd expect no less from Macross.

SuperKnuckles

2008-03-31, 01:08

LOL the audience will be quite low this way... it would have been more logic to do some prequel thingy in Christmas and now starting with the true show.
Who cares about something already seen? Not to mention you can see whenever you like just by downloading it from Internet?

I don't know. It just feels right to start things off that way to me. Most American TV shows do that when they are in need of serious catch-up. I do share the discontent that we're basically waiting another week.

ipernorris

2008-03-31, 13:25

Anyway I asked some pages ago if that monster thing is a "mobile armor" or an organic being, can someone answer please? :)

orion

2008-03-31, 14:03

Onizuka-GTO

2008-03-31, 14:54

Am I the only one looking forward to spotting the differences?

korrrrraaaaa! you trying to pick a fight?! eeehh??!!

:mad:

six times? pffft.

talk to me when you get to the double digits, bouzo. :rolleyes:

Anyway I asked some pages ago if that monster thing is a "mobile armor" or an organic being, can someone answer please? :)

It's neither, it's a digital being that has invade this reality, oh snap! its the ANTI-SPIRAL!!!!

*put shades on/cross armed Valkyrie shadow behind a UN SPACY Flag*

WHO DO YOU THINK YOU'RE TALKING TO??!!!?! - which is what i want to say.

:rolleyes:

The answer is we don't know.

could be a cyborg, a fusion of biological and machine. It could be a exoskeleton suit for a creature like that, it could be a piloted mecha with a weak pilot creature, it could be just a robot.

We don't know.

the only clue we have right now, is that it looks like it mimics some sort of biological creature, and that some of it's weapons such as the missile decoy pods look organic in nature.

Kaoru Chujo

2008-03-31, 20:42

Hey, Kaoishin, thanks for the suggestion. I watched the preview of the first ep (maybe the real broadcast version will be a little different) and liked it. The fighting isn't my thing, but it seemed pretty well done, with some good animation.

And there were some possible relationsips happening. Endou Aya's character (Sheryl) was striking; Aya did a nice job with her. And the same for Lanka (Ranka?), the young girl: I thought she was an interesting combination of forward and shy, and I thought the young seiyuu (Nakajima Megumi, 18) debuting with the role was strong. I liked the way Alto's character was portrayed, too, mostly thanks to the script and animation, but also thanks to Nakamura Yuuichi (Tomoya in Clannad).

Anyway, here are links to Nakajima Megumi's website (http://nakajimamegumi.com/index.html)and blog (http://www.blog-stardust.jp/nakajimamegumi/), and here is a photo (left):

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8021/nakajimamegumipd6.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nakajimamegumipd6.jpg) http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2145/endouayaqg7.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/4500/nakamurayuuichiqh7.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nakamurayuuichiqh7.jpg)

Just for good measure, here is a link to Endou Aya's blog (http://blog.excite.co.jp/endo-aya), and her photo is in the middle above. She's 28, and after getting her big break as Miyuki in Lucky Star, this year she has three starring roles: this one, Lena in My-Otome 0~S.ifr~, and Angie in the new Angelique series. (She was also Imari in Inukami, Rukina in Kiss Dum, and Kinue Crossroad in Gundam00).

And I've added a photo of Nakamura Yuuichi. He was Abe in Ookiku Furikabutte, and Graham Aker in Gundam00, as well as Tomoya. He's also 28. Here are his website (http://www.geocities.jp/yu_kyu_0/main.htm), and his agency site (http://www.sigma7.co.jp/profile/m_51.html).

Shiroth

2008-03-31, 20:50

Am I the only one looking forward to spotting the differences? Heck I've seen the first episode 6 times already why not one more time!
Hopefully they won't be that obvious, even after six viewings.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-03-31, 21:09

Hopefully they won't be that obvious, even after six viewings.

Well we will see, this will be the first MF analysis of the Director's skill.

While I hope to see some new scenes, im quite confident that we won't see too much difference in the interpretation of the action.

Westlo

2008-04-01, 00:19

I would be over double digits if the second half wasn't so much better than the first... I've seen the second half of episode 1 about 20 times Onizuka :D

diablo12

2008-04-01, 10:37

second insert song "What's about my star" 1 min sample came out few days ago, I love it very much. Do anybody know "starring May'n" refer to who? The girl play the music part of Sheryl Nome?

Westlo

2008-04-01, 11:02

May'n is the Japanese j pop singer they have hired to do all the Sheryl tracks and yeah I really like that 1 min sample of "What's about my star".

Btw Macross Frontier OST 1 dated!

The Macross Frontier OST 1 entitled “Frontier NOW” is now available for preorders through Amazon Japan.

Details:
Release Date: June 4, 2008
Price: Y3045 (approx. 30.52 USD)

Lanca Lee instead of Ranka Lee?

By the way, as an aside, Ranka Lee’s name is officially romanized as “Lanca Lee”. This information comes from Tokyo Anime Fair t-shirts with English text on them.

And the cover for the Diamond Crevasse/Don’t Be Late CD Single

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v205/mike_s_6/gb/20080328-00000011-lisn-musi-view-00.jpg

New avatar time!

Shiroth

2008-04-01, 12:30

Brilliant news about the first OST release --- it's always good news when the soundtrack information appears before the airing of the first episode. Just have to wait for it to appear on CDjapan before i can preorder.

Gotta wonder what the first press gift will be.

pinoy78

2008-04-01, 15:35

Excellent news about the OST.

Sheryl is looking rather delicious as well, the nails are quite diva-ish.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-01, 15:39

sheryl reminds me of that blonde singer from Macross 7, you know the other Galaxy Network star?

forgot her name....

Westlo

2008-04-02, 01:31

Correct me if I'm wrong (with a link to it!) but there hasn't been a leak of Diamond Crevasse yet right? Guess this is what I'm looking forward to the most tomorrow!

orion

2008-04-02, 20:57

Did TBS show episode 1 a day ahead of schedule?

Shouta

2008-04-02, 21:25

I don't think so. It might be someone grabbing the Deculture Edition of Ep 1 and putting it out.

orion

2008-04-02, 21:41

Yeah, it does say "Deculture edition" at the end after I played it.

Dandruff

2008-04-03, 00:01

Wow, I really loved the pilot, couldn't take my eyes off the eye candy visuals. Felt like such a nerd for catching the all references to the past Macross tv series and the OVAS/movies, but it was all sweeeet. Lookin' forward for more which will be quite soon, haha.

Just a little something I noticed, don't know if it was already mentioned in this thread but whatever xP

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5853/satelightmd9.png
Destination Satelight, haha.

harmonious

2008-04-03, 00:08

Do I need to watch the previous Macross series to understand Frontier?

Westlo

2008-04-03, 00:30

No you do not.

FLCL

2008-04-03, 00:35

doesnt this air tomorrow?

when does it begin MUST KNOW!!! XD

Westlo

2008-04-03, 00:36

If it airs in Shana's old time slow which was also the same time slot Darker Than black and Code Geass was in than I'm pretty sure it airs in about 11 hours time, give or take an hour.

deffusse

2008-04-03, 00:57

is there any chance, we obtain the macross sub-forum....? I mean there are a lot of fans, a lot of posts, and the whole macross serie deserves it:)

germanturkey

2008-04-03, 01:02

there'll be one. i mean, if gundam has one, there's no reason why macross can't have one either. so it airs tomorrow, as in friday, or tomorrow as in thursday? i'm guessing you guys mean friday.

anyways, its just a rehash of ep 1 right? hopefully a good group will do it and we'll get 720p encodes at a reasonable size..

pinoy78

2008-04-03, 01:47

http://aycu35.webshots.com/image/51034/2002899885514944908_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2002899885514944908)

pinoy78

2008-04-03, 01:49

is there any chance, we obtain the macross sub-forum....? I mean there are a lot of fans, a lot of posts, and the whole macross serie deserves it:)

Oh no question.

Heck. We have 56 pages and this series hasn't even started! That's gotta stand for something.

Westlo

2008-04-03, 02:18

It airs at 25:00 Thursday aka 1 AM Friday, so a bit under 9 hours away from air time. Hopefully people can get the ED theme on youtube very quickly, I'll like to watch that before I go to sleep.. Frontier finishes airing at 3.30am my time...

@ Pinoy

Sheryl's looking the goods!

terrus

2008-04-03, 03:07

well it airs at JST 25:25 wich is GMT+9 meaning it airs at 16:25pm in UST and 12:25pm EST

D a m i e n

2008-04-03, 04:38

well it airs at JST 25:25 wich is GMT+9 meaning it airs at 16:25pm in UST and 12:25pm EST

how do you manage to fit 25h in a day?

SuperKnuckles

2008-04-03, 04:40

Do I need to watch the previous Macross series to understand Frontier?

Depends on how much you want to understand. I'd say the original Macross is a must watch anyway. As for Macross 7, I'd say it's skippable. Again, try to find the original Macross + Plus + Zero OVAs. But I do think retroactive viewing holds up fairly well since the overall plotlines are archetypal and not too context heavy.

PS- I'm really anticipating the fansub effort this time. I hope it's a totally new group or something for the heck of it.

Shiroth

2008-04-03, 06:15

Regarding the previous Macross watch, you can just go with Macross: Do You Remember Love? --- which is a retelling of the original series in movie format. It's a quick watch, something you can do before watching Macross Frontier. Oh and make sure you check out Macross Plus sometime in the near future.

pinoy78: Don't suppose you have a high resolution version of that image?

terrus

2008-04-03, 06:42

how do you manage to fit 25h in a day?
It's actualy 01:25am in JST they do this as not to mix up the fact that it's on thursday not friday for some reason. Confusing ain't it.

flou

2008-04-03, 10:54

Here's the official PV for Triangler:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm2879690
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIAXeKV0Qso

Love the song! :D Unless someone beats me to it, I'll post the new ED when it's uploaded to Nicovideo ;)

Westlo

2008-04-03, 11:17

The proper version of the song as expected rocks.

aardvark

2008-04-03, 11:23

Just watched the episode

Kind of different from Deculture edition

- OP and ED (ED is really short)
- New scenes with the characters
- New Song and some new music I think
- Animation improved in some areas and totally redone in an area or two (Concert is TOTALLY different now)
- Some scenes removed obviously
- The Eyecatch is OMG AWESOME

duckroll

2008-04-03, 11:25

Overall Macross Frontier ep1 is waaaay better than the Deculture Edition. They removed scenes but also changed a bunch of stuff. Animation, pacing, CG, etc seem to have improved since they last aired it too. Can't wait for ep2. :)

Westlo

2008-04-03, 11:28

Oh shit they put in the op? *quickly edits posts saying there wouldn't be an op*

*cough*

Anyway hows the ED sound?

aardvark

2008-04-03, 11:31

Oh shit they put in the op? *quickly edits posts saying there wouldn't be an op*

*cough*

Anyway hows the ED sound?
Really wierd.

From what I remember, it was pretty short (30 seconds?) and with quiet singing and not much of any music behind the vocals.

I think the ED for episode 2 and beyond should be different (IE longer if not anything else)

terrus

2008-04-03, 11:32

So this episode aired at what time? i'm just not certain as i live in england and we just had daylight savings so the clocks have gone forward an hour. I assumed that the episode would air at 16:25pm GMT but i am kinda confused and don't know if i'm right

Westlo

2008-04-03, 11:33

Oh did they fix up or remove the scene where lanca gets off the train and heads towards the concert? Those scenes were really static so I'll be surprised if they remained untouched.

DragoonKain3

2008-04-03, 11:34

aardvark

2008-04-03, 11:35

The leaked song didn't do the song justice. Heads and tails above what Maaya has ever done before in anime songs.
Um, it's ok, but it's no "Hemisphere"

the.Merines

2008-04-03, 11:40

It airs on TBS (among a smattering of other stations), so I assume it'll air in HD. If it turns out to be a station upscale, I will be sorely disappointed.

pinoy78

2008-04-03, 11:42

The wait is killling me...

duckroll

2008-04-03, 11:43

Oh did they fix up or remove the scene where lanca gets off the train and heads towards the concert? Those scenes were really static so I'll be surprised if they remained untouched.

Can't really remember offhand, but overall the episode flowed much better. The concert is completely different as a result. I think it's best to think of the Deculture Edition as an alternate pilot episode.

deffusse

2008-04-03, 11:43

The leaked song didn't do the song justice. Heads and tails above what Maaya has ever done before in anime songs.

Just a question, is Macross F also aired in HDTV? I remember that the first airing wasn't, and it would be a shame if they don't put it in HD for the series IMO.

of corse, it was.... I mean the firs ep. aired in the end of 2007, was in 720p, but the HD standard for tv seems to be 1080i.... and there wasn't any 1080 release, also there wasn't "hi-vision" sign on screen.. So it is realy disputable. It has to be aired in HD standard, or it's going to be a waste of it's realy good animation:rolleyes:

duckroll

2008-04-03, 11:46

of corse, it was.... I mean the firs ep. aired in the end of 2007, was in 720p, but the HD standard for tv seems to be 1080i.... and there wasn't any 1080 release, also there wasn't "hi-vision" sign on screen.. So it is realy disputable. It has to be aired in HD standard, or it's going to be a waste of it's realy good animation:rolleyes:

There could be various reasons for this. The Deculture Edition didn't air on it's own, it was part of a Macross Anniversary program.

Westlo

2008-04-03, 11:48

Um, it's ok, but it's no "Hemisphere"

Yep that's her best one! And Hemisphere has stood the test of time, let's see if I like Triangler as much in 6 years time.

mikoo

2008-04-03, 12:00

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/948/95902225en8.th.jpg (http://img171.imageshack.us/my.php?image=95902225en8.jpg) . http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7418/55303744od8.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=55303744od8.jpg) . http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9821/80528132lu2.th.jpg (http://img502.imageshack.us/my.php?image=80528132lu2.jpg) . http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/5158/11714982my7.th.jpg (http://img380.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11714982my7.jpg) . http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1945/12sk8.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=12sk8.jpg) .
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1790/30479072qq0.th.jpg (http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=30479072qq0.jpg) . http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/4098/90782512ux9.th.jpg (http://img395.imageshack.us/my.php?image=90782512ux9.jpg) . http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/1521/25661891tw5.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=25661891tw5.jpg) . http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/571/39610793pr0.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=39610793pr0.jpg) . http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/7117/34384396xx4.th.jpg (http://img395.imageshack.us/my.php?image=34384396xx4.jpg) . http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/853/13kp0.th.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13kp0.jpg) . http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/9033/14ur0.th.jpg (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=14ur0.jpg) . http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8110/10xx3.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10xx3.jpg) . http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4922/11bx3.th.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=11bx3.jpg)

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1945/12sk8.jpg

Frontier battle mode :eek: :bow: :bow:

NoOneKnowS

2008-04-03, 12:06

Wow finally; Romance+Mecha anime. 2 of my fave anime genres. I'd be sure to loved this show. I just know it.

I've been not keeping up w/ the thread so.

1.) How long will this series be? 26 EPs? or 50+?

2.) If it's 50+; will it be like some other series that has like a 6months wait for a new 20+(err..like a second season) EPs?

Westlo

2008-04-03, 12:11

No one knows the length of the show, unless they flat out say how many episodes it will be you have to wait for dvd listings generally.

@ mikoo

Holy crap, Frontier battle mode ftw

Ichihara Asako

2008-04-03, 12:11

duckroll

2008-04-03, 12:12

It's scheduled for 25 episodes for now.

Westlo

2008-04-03, 12:16

25.. guess it had to be in that range with its level of animation, at least it won't be drawn out too long like Seven.

DragoonKain3

2008-04-03, 12:32

Meh, I only watched the Rahxephon OP repeatedly for pretty much Reika... couldn't even remember what Hemisphere was until I googled it lol. The beat was good IIRC, but the performance was ok at best for me. Now the shorter version of that song on the otherhand, I remember to be much better on her part, but just a shame it was much shorter.

pinoy78

2008-04-03, 12:36

http://aycu10.webshots.com/image/49809/2004402999289862646_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2004402999289862646)

flou

2008-04-03, 13:24

The OP and ED were uploaded :D

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm2885123
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm2885310

Enjoy!

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-03, 13:30

holy crap.

frontier battle mode...!!!

So different from other Macross capital ship modes!

Macross 7 gave the impression that it was a departure from the original battle mode, and had more of a Valkyrie-like concept, separate gunship, and "hands" to grip it.

i guess by 25th fleet design, they abandoned the necessary of it, and reverted back to the classic design, of incorporating weapon system into the ship, ala SDF-1 style.

but wow....

I . NEED. TO. WATCH!!

EDIT: woohooo! downloading RAWS NOW!

when are we getting our forum??! the episode aired already!

Do we have to get it SUBBED to have our own forum or what?

Shouta

2008-04-03, 13:38

Nuuu, I wanna get to work on this but I'm stuck at actual work with nothing to do! =|

SuperKnuckles

2008-04-03, 13:51

25.. guess it had to be in that range with its level of animation, at least it won't be drawn out too long like Seven.

No... The operative word being 'for now'. They do that all the time nowadays instead of flatout saying it's going to be 50 eps.

Also, why do people constantly compare Macross 7's length to Frontier's? The staff in M7 was just bad at creating the story overall. I have much more faith if Kawamori is to be more involved in Frontier. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt of a better 50 episode effort if it goes that?

Shiroth

2008-04-03, 13:52

I just can't get over the amazing eyecatch.

Westlo

2008-04-03, 14:01

Also, why do people constantly compare Macross 7's length to Frontier's? The staff in M7 was just bad at creating the story overall. I have much more faith if Kawamori is to be more involved in Frontier. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt of a better 50 episode effort if it goes that?

After Arjuna, Zero and Aquarion my faith in Kawamori isn't exactly at an all time high... and I actually like Aquarion for what it is.... Sure Frontier is off to a great start but that's all it is atm, a start.

SuperKnuckles

2008-04-03, 14:02

I still say the OP sounds like something that would fit better in a romance type anime. And the ED, well, that is just a bit tame. Even Shigofumi's ED was more vibrant in comparison.

After Arjuna, Zero and Aquarion my faith in Kawamori isn't exactly at an all time high... and I actually like Aquarion for what it is.... Sure Frontier is off to a great start but that's all it is atm, a start.

In that context, I suppose it makes sense. I just hope the old fire is lit because it's a new Macross show and a lot is riding on it. Actually, I have the same overall opinion of the Slayers director because the guy has been on a slight slump (Shana 2..), but hopefully he'll pick it up for the new Slayers show too.

BluWacky

2008-04-03, 14:23

The ED is not permanent - it uses a song called "Ai mo" sung by Megumi Nakajima, for one. It's a similar trick to Aquarion, which didn't use Omna Magni for the first couple of episodes.

Not watched the new version of episode 1 yet, and will reserve OP speculation until later.

Westlo

2008-04-03, 14:24

OP on youtube for those without nico access.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsbVXxmBkb0

Shiroth

2008-04-03, 14:25

File's no longer on youtube Westlo.

Westlo

2008-04-03, 14:27

Damn that was taken down very fast.

edit - new link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPr902MTVCs

Forceflow

2008-04-03, 14:37

Seeing the upgraded Koing Monster (even if its only in the OP) has left a huge smile on my face.

Crofesima

2008-04-03, 14:40

Opening: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37E5XgHjc9M
Download link (better quality, flv): http://rapidshare.com/files/104620007/Macross_Frontier_OP.flv.html

Ending: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTTZ16asNjE
Download link: http://rapidshare.com/files/104621868/Macross_Frontier_ED.flv.html

Shouta

2008-04-03, 14:51

Meh, OP kinda sucks still. I guess 7th Moon will still be the best Mac series Opening.

ED isn't too bad though.

Shiroth

2008-04-03, 14:53

The OP visuals aren't OHMYGOD AMAZING, though they do the job that an OP should do. As for the song, i knew after my first original listen that i'd love it more when listened to as an OP, and i wasn't wrong one bit.

7Th

2008-04-03, 14:57

I can't get over how terrible most of the character design work is. Seriously, what where they thinking?

Shiroth

2008-04-03, 14:59

I can't get over how terrible most of the character design work is. Seriously, what where they thinking?
I can't get over how someone would say how terrible the character designs look.

Forceflow

2008-04-03, 14:59

Based on the flight suits we have the blue glasses-genius (Mikhail) and we have the green friend (Luca).

Premonition of death flag? :heh:

7Th

2008-04-03, 15:06

I can't get over how someone would say how terrible the character designs look.

That makes no sense.

I can't get over people complaining about how terrible the character designs look.

Much better.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-03, 15:07

I can't get over how terrible most of the character design work is. Seriously, what where they thinking?

i agree. Gundam characters are terrible. what were they thinking?

probably "I wish we were as good as Macross"

:rolleyes:

Shiroth

2008-04-03, 15:09

That makes no sense.
It wasn't supposed to make sense. :)

7Th

2008-04-03, 15:09

i agree. Gundam characters are terrible. what were they thinking?

probably "I wish we were as good as Macross"

:rolleyes:

This has nothing to do with the "character" themselves... and Macross as a whole has usually decent design work.

Shiroth

2008-04-03, 15:12

This has nothing to do with the "character" themselves... and Macross as a whole has usually decent design work.
Like i originally said though didn't seem to make sense because i have no idea why, but anyway..

I just don't see anything wrong with the character designs, yet alone enough reason to say they look terrible.

pinoy78

2008-04-03, 15:14

I can't get over how terrible most of the character design work is. Seriously, what where they thinking?

Oh come on. Terrible?

I'd say you're trolling but I don't wanna rush to judgement.

7Th

2008-04-03, 15:19

The show itself isn't half bad so far and the animation is obviously top-notch, but the art direction and color scheme are pretty unpolished. The shape definition feels awkward, the brightness comes across as without any care...

DonQuigleone

2008-04-03, 17:09

I think the character design is fine, though the purple haired girl's breasts are too big (though it's not anything like dragonaut level, just personal preference).

One unusual thing about Frontier with respect to previous series(except 7) is the large variety of hair colours present, most Macross shows stick to pretty natural hair colours, here we have blues, purples, greens and pinks.

On a completely unrelated note, who's the blue haired girl in uniform in the op? She looks a bit like Ranka, but she's got weird pointy ears (as does Michael...).

ChronoReverse

2008-04-03, 17:11

The only Macross with "normal" hair colours is Zero and that's because it's all humans. Even in Plus Guld had green hair because of his Zentraidi background.

In any case, it's already been established that the Zentraidi have funky hair colours, so at least there's an in-universe reason.

DonQuigleone

2008-04-03, 17:20

I mostly meant in the case of humans, however many zentradi do have weird hair colours (though in the original most of them didn't.) which might be a good explanation for the large number of hair colours here

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-03, 17:31

well, we know that if you had a a mixed human-zentradi couple, they will be the dominate gene for any future offspring.

so a meltran will always give birth to females, with zentradi hair colour.

Her "brother" must be a half-brother or step-brother because of his human hair colour.

But it seems that the 25th fleet has more zentradi population then the Macross 7 fleet.

perhaps more integration.

but the art direction and color scheme are pretty unpolished. The shape definition feels awkward, the brightness comes across as without any care...

Yes, i agree, but what do you expect from Gundam 00? it was pretty tacky compared to Macross Frontier.

they keep changing thr style, universe, so confusing.

The rapid growth of the style in the Macross Universe onthe other hand has always been with flash colour and lights.

It's a way to express the importance of the core theme, which is "CULTURE"

culture is rarely "careful" nor "familiar" if it does, then it just shows the stagnation of the progress of the human civilization that are developing on the macross colony fleets.

Unified by a GALAXY spanning MEDIA NETWORK culture seeths though everything, im certain if you ever visit TOKYO or NEW YORK for the first time i think you will definitely feel "awkward".

it overloads your sense, culture attacks you. you either bare with it or move to another area, with no culture.

like Gundam.

Mgz

2008-04-03, 18:06

I got tricked into download the 2007 X-mas eps 1 Macross intead of the new one with OP/ED :( by aniserv :<

orion

2008-04-03, 18:22

Oops I should have said which one I downloaded that had the problem. Sorry about that.

well, we know that if you had a a mixed human-zentradi couple, they will be the dominate gene for any future offspring.

so a meltran will always give birth to females, with zentradi hair colour.

Her "brother" must be a half-brother or step-brother because of his human hair colour.

But it seems that the 25th fleet has more zentradi population then the Macross 7 fleet.

perhaps more integration.

Or what if she is not genetically related to her "brother" at all? They just don't resemble each other.

I like the OP. Aruto is shown in outfit for his family's profession. It looked like Lanka is being given "goddess'" status. Hopefully, she avoids Minmei's outcome, is more decisive than Mylene and gets the guy. The ED seemed sad to me.

pinoy78

2008-04-03, 18:57

I got tricked into download the 2007 X-mas eps 1 Macross intead of the new one with OP/ED :( by aniserv :<

I almost DL'ed it last night, then I saw the message on their website.

Shiroth

2008-04-03, 19:46

I guess i do like how they're hinting at the romantic side to the story with one of the new scenes, Alto catching Sheryl.

Though i do wish they could have kept the scenes that appeared in the special version. & you also gotta look at it from a different view --- if it wasn't for the special broadcast, we probably wouldn't have seen the scenes that appeared in todays airing --- or the other way around.

Nightengale

2008-04-03, 20:36

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-03, 21:26

im just wondering when they will give us a forum?

is it only when they start subbing this episode that they will make one?

or are they going to wait until episode 2 come out?

I wish they have a clear indication of the criteria for a series to get a sub-forum....

Tabris

2008-04-03, 21:29

Wait, has episode 1 been released? (I guess it's RAW?)

Good old Tosho, but 374.49MiB for a raw, Holy Hell.

Jett

2008-04-03, 21:30

Before the forum...

WHERE'S MY RAW?

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-03, 21:34

Wait, has episode 1 been released? (I guess it's RAW?)

Before the forum...

WHERE'S MY RAW?

Yes.

and

Yes.

both a standard and HD version.

hasn't been subbed yet.

but got a nice opening, not much action but still taste.

been watching the director cut and this episode a few times.

i like the way interpretation of the scene between sheyrl and Altro.

de-culture it is more distanced, i agree that the TV certainly seem to imply something....

won't comment on the action, needs more viewing.

:)

orion

2008-04-03, 21:56

Wait, has episode 1 been released? (I guess it's RAW?)

Good old Tosho, but 374.49MiB for a raw, Holy Hell.

That's the Deculture edition raw not the current episode 1 raw.

SeedFreedom

2008-04-03, 22:00

This looks like one of the more promising shows this season. But I've never seen any of the older Macross series. Would it be stupid of me to try and jump in?

orion

2008-04-03, 22:08

I don't think so. Just watch Macross: Do you remember love?. That should give you some background for this in a short period of time.

Edit: Raw is out now.

pinoy78

2008-04-03, 22:47

Finally! I think I'm gonna fly one of my VF-1's around the house.

Kaioshin Sama

2008-04-03, 22:47

The first episode was pretty well-done. It was a tad weaker compared to the director's cut imo, the scene composition of the removed scenes had more far presentation impact, but whatever. It's not like we never watched it already.

And I can see how 7th think on the designs. Not so much the colors or designs, but the post-processing look. It's far more shaded with the neat lighting and brightness effects during certain scenes (( kind of like how Kyoto Animation makes their animation 'look' prettier with well placed lighting layers )), but some scenes do show a relative aspect that makes it look not as good as it could be.

Well, I've seen far worse, so no complaints really. 00 had some pretty awkward (( read : stiff )) animation and post-processing for most of first half as well.

You mean the Lens Flare or "Orange Power" as I call it? As long as it isn't quite so blinding I'm good. Also the colour palletes are a lot darker in this series then in Gundam 00 and Clannad (moreso Clannad as I actually had to turn down the contrast and brightness a bit on my monitor when viewing it just because it didn't feel quite right) so I don't know about the comparison.

I actually saw the opening too and as low as my expectations were for it it actually failed to meet even that low a level. The compisition of the images is quite unimaginative and the song is just still so screechy and uninspired that it does nothing for me (It's pure idol pop), but make me squint. Luckily it's nothing that will really hurt my overall enjoyment of the anime as I can just skip it, but wow, what a shame.

Then again Yoko Kanno has always been hit and miss with me when it comes to vocal songs so I'm not terribly surprised. I didn't like any of the Sharon Apple songs or Voices in Macross Plus and the Aquarion opening.....let's not even go there. In fact the only Yoko Kanno openings I've really liked are those that have been attached to Sunrise productions like Escaflowne, Brain Powerd, Turn A Gundam and Cowboy Bebop. This could be a new low though. Let's just hope the non-vocal BGM is up to her usual level.

ZODDGUTS

2008-04-03, 23:10

I can't get over how terrible most of the character design work is. Seriously, what where they thinking?

I agree don't like the character designs for this series they look rather generic to me the only one I kinda like is Sheryl Nome. Really liked Macross Zero's character designs which they would have gone with that character designer.

Tabris

2008-04-03, 23:43

Okay, you guys have confused me now.

The normal raw, deculture edition and director's cut? There's three versions of the same episode?

Kaoru Chujo

2008-04-03, 23:45

glyph

2008-04-03, 23:56

Okay, you guys have confused me now.

The normal raw, deculture edition and director's cut? There's three versions of the same episode?

There is no director's cut. There's the deculture edition (the special preview) and the broadcast episode one.

Tabris

2008-04-04, 00:15

Ah right, thanks :)

Shouta

2008-04-04, 00:15

After sitting down and watching it, the OP is definitely pretty bleh to me. I was hoping for something catchier like the Mac7 opening or something powerful like the original Macross opening. Oh well. ED isn't too bad.

The new scenes are pretty good, much better for character development and the new concert scene is nice. The deculture edition did the flow of action and the first contact scene much better though. So I guess it's a slight tradeoff. They added a bit of fanservice in some places it seems and improved some of the drawings and details in places. The color scheme is still a bit funky though.

Kaioshin Sama

2008-04-04, 00:17

Saw a Chinese sub. Thanks again, Kaioshin. Enjoyed it just as much as the preview version I watched a couple of days ago.

Adored the ED song by Nakajima Megumi (Ranka), whether it's temporary or not. Keep an eye on Megumi-chan. She's got talent. Although her seiyuu voice is a kind a lot of otaku will be calling stiff (and I call moving and real).And I thought the new scene with Sheryl singing as she was carried through the sky was worth dropping other good scenes. Worked great for me.From the number of posts already, without most people having seen it, it looks to me as if this show will be going to its own forum post haste.

Your welcome of course. :)

I agree don't like the character designs for this series they look rather generic to me the only one I kinda like is Sheryl Nome. Really liked Macross Zero's character designs which they would have gone with that character.

Yeah the character designs could have used a little work I agree (and I also think Sheryl's is the best, although I like Alto's and Ranka's too) but they also seem blend fairly well in an aesthetic sense with everything else that is going on in a seen. I think it's somewhat deliberate as they want the characters to be able to fit well with any animation sequence and the music that will likely be interlaced in an inseperable way with them. Macross is kind of an artsy fartsy series that calls for this kind of character design. I know it's a tough sell, but believe me it's important.

@Onizuka GTO: I'll also take Gundam 00's openings and music over anything we've heard in Macross Frontier so far. I'm sure it will improve, but I just wanted to mention that in defence of Gundam since you've been on about how much better this series has been when I think it falls short in that regard. I won't deny it has better animation than Gundam 00's, but let's not get carried away in pretending that 00 has terrible animation or that it doesn't have it's strengths versus Macross as well.

SoldierOfDarkness

2008-04-04, 01:34

Not bad though I preferred the first release of Macross Frontier.

But for goodness sakes do those valkyries suck..:uhoh: If that's the amount of damage caused by a raiding party I hate to see them face a whole fleet.

SuperKnuckles

2008-04-04, 01:45

Damn. From the sounds of it, the director's cut was the better version. I guess that one carried a sort of an OVA feel with all the spontaneous action and all. I'm pretty miffed they took out the action/music scene.. That was the best part of it all.

PS- LOL Onizuka. Lay off of Gundam 00 will ya? I have to agree with some others that have defended it for being good for what it is. Especially after the trainwreck of the second half of Destiny. But that has no relevance to Macross in itself. I don't see a need to become partisan over this.

Westlo

2008-04-04, 01:51

In fact the only Yoko Kanno openings I've really liked are those that have been attached to Sunrise productions like Escaflowne, Brain Powerd, Turn A Gundam and Cowboy Bebop. This could be a new low though. Let's just hope the non-vocal BGM is up to her usual level.

I'm 90% sure that the Brainpowered OP wasn't by Kanno.

BluWacky

2008-04-04, 02:13

I'm 90% sure that the Brainpowered OP wasn't by Kanno.

It wasn't (and neither, for that matter, were either of Turn A Gundam's).

deffusse

2008-04-04, 02:29

Just watched the ver. 2.0 of ep 1.... ok it seems a little like a poor cousin to the deculcure ep., but only at first sight. The new scenes were realy good, and it's obviously that everyone has watched the previous one. Less glow, less blur in the animation, but it's a bit sharper. And OP is great, ED [is there any ?:D:D]

Kaioshin Sama

2008-04-04, 02:33

It wasn't (and neither, for that matter, were either of Turn A Gundam's).

Well there you go then.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-04, 02:39

Then again Yoko Kanno has always been hit and miss with me when it comes to vocal songs so I'm not terribly surprised. I didn't like any of the Sharon Apple songs or Voices in Macross Plus and the Aquarion opening.....let's not even go there. In fact the only Yoko Kanno openings I've really liked are those that have been attached to Sunrise productions like Escaflowne, Brain Powerd, Turn A Gundam and Cowboy Bebop. This could be a new low though. Let's just hope the non-vocal BGM is up to her usual level.

Woah. all your dislikes....I like!

Guess I have to accept your taste are different from mine.

personally i like the opening, i dunno why but it did make my heart race faster, the images really bring out nostalgic memories, the full battle mode firing all over, i was expecting to see pin-point barrier circles to be zipping all over it, and destroids scurrying like ants. :D

I will admit the music seems a tad slower in tempo, but i like it. but then overall i like Mayaa Sakamoto songs, hell i got her albums permanently on my car playlist.

@Onizuka GTO: I'll also take Gundam 00's openings and music over anything we've heard in Macross Frontier so far. I'm sure it will improve, but I just wanted to mention that in defence of Gundam since you've been on about how much better this series has been when I think it falls short in that regard. I won't deny it has better animation than Gundam 00's, but let's not get carried away in pretending that 00 has terrible animation or that it doesn't have it's strengths versus Macross as well.

I agree with you. I like the music for Gundam 00, Brilliant Green & l'arc'ciel are both my favourites bands.
Which really pisses me off, as it was one of the reason i like Gundam 00, which surprise surprise is one of the first Gundam series i've watched to the end.

(The ending song "friend" was great too. it was emotionally strong when lockon died. i cried manly tears for the only none teenage emo pilot. dammn you! WHHHHYYYY????!!!)

But as for whether i like it over MF's one?
well i have yet to see if it fits the story and tempo. but their is no denying that i like them both, if only because i like sniping pandas and anti-war songs by girly men.

so as requested, i shall not mention Gundam 00 anymore.

Now compared to Sunderland and Lancelot Knightmares, i do believe the valkyrie is.....

:rolleyes:

Westlo

2008-04-04, 02:44

No need to bring up Code Geass here either man, and also you should spoiler tag that 00 death or just take out his name, everyone who has seen 00 knows who you would be talking about anyway.

Well there you go then.

You didn't like the Record of Lodoss War TV opening either? Heck it was the best thing about the show.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-04, 03:25

No need to bring up Code Geass here either man...

sheesh. spoil sports. what do you suppose i should flail my irrational and overzealous religious anger at now? Eva?! Over Gainer? no wait! Dragonaut! naaa. too easy.
meh.
:rolleyes:

You didn't like the Record of Lodoss War TV opening either? Heck it was the best thing about the show.

LODOSS!

woah, i have an urge to load the ost back on my night time playlist now, those tracks are greart for relaxing/sleeping.

thanks!

Shiroth

2008-04-04, 07:05

I'll also take Gundam 00's openings and music over anything we've heard in Macross Frontier so far.
1 episode against 25 episodes, that's pretty fare don't you think?

The whole Macross vs Gundam thing is just silly anyway, i mean at the end of the day there's just no point. There's plenty of people here who like one over the other, or there's people like me who don't see any need to point out i like one more then the other.

& i do believe Onizuka-GTO needs to stop with the Gundam 00 bashing just because people are caling Macross Frontier. You said you'll stop, so that's good.

terrus

2008-04-04, 07:17

I'm a complete noob to Macross and i've never watched a previous series before (except Macross Zero, which i loved). I've watched both the preview episode and now this one and i'm certainly going to enjoy the series, but after watching episode one i have to ask, are the people with pointed ears aliens (the boy with glasses and the girl in the op) or are they genetically alterd humans or what?

I agree don't like the character designs for this series they look rather generic to me the only one I kinda like is Sheryl Nome. Really liked Macross Zero's character designs which they would have gone with that character designer.

I checked out the CD's page on ANN and they did the CD's for Gravion and a hentai so this is the CD's first anime where they've had to at least try to draw their characters somewhat more realisticly as opposed to their usual designs wich usually involve women with breasts bigger than their head.

orion

2008-04-04, 08:08

I'm a complete noob to Macross and i've never watched a previous series before (except Macross Zero, which i loved). I've watched both the preview episode and now this one and i'm certainly going to enjoy the series, but after watching episode one i have to ask, are the people with pointed ears aliens (the boy with glasses and the girl in the op) or are they genetically alterd humans or what?

Nope. Just the mixing of human and alien species. Males are a mix of human and Zentradi. Females are a mix of human and Meltlandi.

I checked out the CD's page on ANN and they did the CD's for Gravion and a hentai so this is the CD's first anime where they've had to at least try to draw their characters somewhat more realisticly as opposed to their usual designs wich usually involve women with breasts bigger than their head.

That does explain why one character is well endowed in the OP. But there is another character designer (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?id=31710) listed too.

I think that bashing of both series should stop and if anyone wants to bash Macross Frontier some more than they should do it elsewhere.

glyph

2008-04-04, 08:23

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-04, 09:37

I'm a complete noob to Macross and i've never watched a previous series before (except Macross Zero, which i loved). I've watched both the preview episode and now this one and i'm certainly going to enjoy the series, but after watching episode one i have to ask, are the people with pointed ears aliens (the boy with glasses and the girl in the op) or are they genetically alterd humans or what?

please refer to the previous post:

found tihs information quite interesting, someone who's been obsessively watching all macross wrote up a template for zentradi/meltradi genetic features:

Skin Colour Hair Colour Eye Colour
Dark purple Blue Blue
Light purple Green Brown
Light blue Purple Green
Grey Black
Pink (Caucasian) Brown
Green Red

so if you take into account of what-is-her-name nyan nyan lass,

she has to have a mixture of zentraedi blood in her, if you take into consideration of her green hair.

Possibly her mother or grandmother (as meltradi women only give birth to female, due to the dominates of her genes during gender conception)

oh and I knew ginger people were aliens. i just knew it.

:p

seriously. we need a FAQ thread, ASAP. when the sub-forum comes up, if only to save our sanity.

no wait. maybe it was "give us sanity"?

meh.

Westlo

2008-04-04, 10:46

Yay subforum ftw

1 episode against 25 episodes, that's pretty fare don't you think?

True, I didn't even think Kenji Kawai's 00 score was his best in 07 for one... if Kaoishin ever watches an I.G production he'll see what I mean.

Jett

2008-04-04, 11:06

DonQuigleone

2008-04-04, 11:25

Could it be that the more we ask, the less likely we are to get it :(

Mgz

2008-04-04, 12:22

Yay subforum ftw

True, I didn't even think Kenji Kawai's 00 score was his best in 07 for one... if Kaoishin ever watches an I.G production he'll see what I mean.

YES YES YES, finally XD

so do we have a list of different between the recently aired edition and the deculture edition yet XD ? where is our eagle eyes GTO and his holy water :heh:

DonQuigleone

2008-04-04, 12:51

Whoohoo, got a subforum, perhaps I was too hasty...

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-04, 13:43

*brings out microphone*

Oboete 'maaasu ka Me to me ga atta toooki woooooooo

Oboete 'masu ka Te to te ga fureatta tooooki

Soooore wa hajimete no ai no tabidachi deshitaaaaaa

I LOVE YOU SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

*gasp*

Banzai....

MACROSS BANZAI!!!!!

:D

*fling and dribble holy macross lubrication everywhere/slips*

:D:D

right, time to explore the other threads, and guide the children to the true light!!

*picks up microphone/sings*

It´s NEW FRONTIER Sou sa Ore-tachi koko ni iru toooo!

Kane wo uchiiiiinarase Woo Woo!

It's NEW FRONTIER Da kara moooottoooo!

Mune ni hi wo tsukero Kakegae no nai mono tokihanatsu SAAAAA!

leongsh

2008-04-04, 23:57

Someone bring a straitjacket, Onizuka-GTO has really done it this time. Watching Macross Frontier has taken him past the sanity borderline :D

orion

2008-04-05, 07:22

I think that a forum purification rite is needed.

Now wash away all those bad vibes (Gundam 00, R******h) and let's just discuss Macross. :D

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-05, 11:58

Someone bring a straitjacket, Onizuka-GTO has really done it this time. Watching Macross Frontier has taken him past the sanity borderline :D

hahah. sorry. i got it back under control.

back when i was a wee lad, i was frequent on the Macross World Forum, but due to my fanaticism i got banned for life.

But trust Macross to make me lose temporary control.

curse you Macross! :rolleyes: Well luckily i'm older and wiser now.

*discreetly rub Macross purity oil all over the doors and walls*

to get back on topic, an interesting thing i noticed from the overview of the paths of the colony fleets is the location of the 21st Fleet that is quite close to the 25th, its interesting, it could be deliberate. the 21st fleet could of been diverted to provide a refugee point for the 25th. We know the UN federation is aware of SOMETHING near the galactic core.

It might even be contingent plan, a reserve to bring together with the 25th fleet for a new front against hostile aliens.

also interesting is that 21st fleet is one of the original from Earth, unlike the 25th which is a second wave, specifically from Eden.

perhaps myths, old files from zentradi/protoculture source?

when you look closely at the enemy vehicles, they remind me of Zentradi battlesuits.

which is an accurate description as they are more or less spacesuits modified and equipped for space battle.

Cadorna

2008-04-05, 20:21

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh our own forumm jejejeje;)

pinoy78

2008-04-06, 01:39

Thanks for the sub forum.

Finally a new Macross tv series to talk about with others...

WaytoDawn

2008-04-06, 07:01

I haven't been watching much of macross so i don't know much of the whole story, but i've got to say, this surely is one of the best mecha anime i have seen thus far. The first episode alone pretty much intrest me more than Gundam 00.

On a separate note, fellow modellers rejoyce!!! Bandai has finally resume making macross kits!
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/9525/macrossfrontierkitvj3.th.jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=macrossfrontierkitvj3.jpg) http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/665/macrossfrontierkitinfoyj4.th.jpg (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=macrossfrontierkitinfoyj4.jpg)

faustianideals

2008-04-07, 05:59

Ottocycle

2008-04-07, 06:06

I pray to god this series isn't linked to any other Macross series. While it may be cool for the hardcore fans of the series to giggle and gawk at references to the other shows in the series, it'll certainly be awkward for people like me to get into this one.
I'm sure that while Frontier is chock-full of references to the past series, it is not that which carries the show. Frontier definitely will have a backbone of its own, in order for it to appeal to the younger fans that will watch it on tv without any knowledge of the prior ones. To not incorporate it would be marketing suicide.

I, for one haven't watched anything past 1 episode of Plus, and Zero, and the first episode of Frontier certainly proves that I can enjoy it as well as any one who hasn't been acquainted with the franchise, since it does the customary introductions for any series during its start.

faustianideals

2008-04-07, 06:11

the first episode of Frontier certainly proves that I can enjoy it as well as any one who hasn't been acquainted with the franchise.

Definitely The deculture version of the first episode was amazing. I'm waiting for a sub of the new version, but I am looking forward to watching this series. It was just oh so very awkward to try and talk about a character and all that you would hear about it are attempts at relating it to past characters. Very frustrating!

Westlo

2008-04-07, 08:48

Your amazing first episode had heaps of references to past series, I guess them going over your head didn't hurt your enjoyment level. I don't think a single reference to a past series in Deculture hurt the show for new fans but that's just me.

Also in regards to characters being "linked" to past versions you do realize that would go on even if this had nothing to do with every previous Macross series and was set in an alternate universe?

4Tran

2008-04-07, 09:18

Definitely The deculture version of the first episode was amazing. I'm waiting for a sub of the new version, but I am looking forward to watching this series. It was just oh so very awkward to try and talk about a character and all that you would hear about it are attempts at relating it to past characters. Very frustrating!
You shouldn't have to worry about this very much. Most of the events in the previous shows happened decades ago, and in-universe, a lot of the younger characters have a hard time themselves believing the stories they were told of those events, (And most of what they know seemed to have come from the movie!). The only thing that having watched the previous shows seem to do is to make it more of a richer, more immersive experience.

Based on what we know of the characters, there seems to be only a single one that is related to an pre-existing character. Even then, she'd be so removed from the events of those character that it wouldn't make a whole lot of difference whether there was a relationship or not.

Another useful thing is that, due to the relative isolation of Macross Frontier, it isn't very likely for older characters to show up. Of the older shows, I think that only Macross 7 characters have any chance of doing so; and they'd have bit parts at best.

Your amazing first episode had heaps of references to past series, I guess them going over your head didn't hurt your enjoyment level. I don't think a single reference to a past series in Deculture hurt the show for new fans but that's just me.
That's partly what I loved about the episode: nifty tidbits like that trash robot, the holographic clothing, and the hand-motion visualization remain nifty even if they didn't contain any references to the previous works. Knowing where it comes from just adds to the fun.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-07, 12:31

I won#t be so sure about "links to old characters", you forget that colony fleet M-GALAXY the 21st is quite close, since it is a colony fleet from Earth and not from Eden.
If they want to, they could drag up a descendant from past, by having them transfer over from that colony to the 25th.

granted not from Macross 7, but perhaps a descendant from maximus, who knows? the possibilities are endless.

the fact they open a lot to speculation. fertile ground. i like.

:)

4Tran

2008-04-07, 13:27

Even with Macross Galaxy close by (and close is a very relative term when we're dealing with intra-galactic distances perhaps thousands of light years apart), it's extremely unlikely for it to have any characters that were in other Macross shows. Any descendants and the like would be still be characters new to the franchise. The only ones of this nature I'm interested in seeing with more than pure cameo appearances would be the Jenius daughters that haven't been animated before.

hga

2008-04-08, 09:40

I feel a little disappointed after seeing the episode, there is more Space-Dominatrix and less VFs doing *boom*.

I prefer the Deculture version. It has a better balance between history/action IMO.

I'm quite disappointed; expanding on your and others' comments:

While the added OP and "Space-Dominatrix" ^_^ stuff was good and needed, the extreme cuts in the action that were required to get all this into 24-5 minutes, plus the resulting massive changes in music direction has robbed this version of rather a lot, e.g.:

How unstoppable the advance of this implacable enemy feels.

The corresponding buildup of tension as this unfolds.

The determined spirit of the defenders (escort ships, SMS and Alto, due to the changed music and a few cuts of the latters' action sequences).

This version has substantially less impact and ... quality; if I'd watched it first, I suspect I wouldn't have gotten hardly as excited about the series. Fortunately, going forward they can do better, we know from the Deculture edition that they're capable of it.

Sigh. the director really painted himself into a corner with a over length and incomplete preview episode with an ending that could not be moved (e.g. into the next episode). Hopefully we'll see a good director's cut that melds what was left on the cutting room floor and the new animation, while retaining the fantastic music direction of the original.

Or we'll just have to combine the both in our heads....

- Harold

DonQuigleone

2008-04-09, 04:44

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-09, 04:49

I agree, though it may difficult to incorporate parts of the concert scene with a combined Music/ launch combo (that was so awesome in Deculture)

On another note entirely, anyone have any idea who subbing this other than infinite zero? and possibly Shinsen? Macross F seems to be getting far less love than Geass which has GG, Eclipse and Conclave-Mendoi on it

you don't need more then one subbing group to show how popular this series is.

the only reason it taking a little longer for the first episode to be subbed was the fact that the decultured version was out and pretty much burned out everyone for the 2nd episodes.

trust me when the 2nde ep comes out we will all be swarming over it. i think shinsen might get into this, they do like their mecha.

:D

ahmad

2008-04-19, 02:22

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-19, 07:17

Hey! Few days ago I was asking you guys what macross. is about etc. Well I finally watched the first series and i love it. Just now i watched Frontier ep 1 and it feels like this is not only gonna be the best show for this season but one of my all time favs as well.
Even though it does not require you to have watched the previous macross series, I think it can be considered a sequel to the original series.
Anyways im really happy and excited right now =D Macross ftw!

hmm...a sequel......perhaps.

Best thing i like about Macross is the heritage.

no matter which macross series you watch, you can always trace the background, the mecha's everything to the original or to a previous series.

i think too many animes have too many "sequels"

it's best to have a new story, new background and new characters.

Gundam has the right idea, yet i think they tend to go overboard with the whole new universe thing.

which is one of my grips, as the technology they use in each series, i just don't understand it. Because they seem to appear out of no where, you just can't backtrack their lineage, the same way you can do with Macross.

wingzero_2000

2008-04-19, 14:23

the different Macross storylines are very different from each other, although they do always references the original Macross/Robotech artifacts, for example, Macross Plus, Macross Zero, Macross 2, 7, are all unrelated storylines, yet connected somehow by the main theme,

Gundam storylines on the other hand, are just rehashed over and over, as long as there are some mobile suits that resembles Gundam in the series, you can call it "Gundam <substitute phrase here>", or whatever.

brightman

2008-04-19, 15:53

it's best to have a new story, new background and new characters.

Gundam has the right idea, yet i think they tend to go overboard with the whole new universe thing.

which is one of my grips, as the technology they use in each series, i just don't understand it. Because they seem to appear out of no where, you just can't backtrack their lineage, the same way you can do with Macross.

No. You think that way because the Gundam franchise is signficantly larger than Macross's and branches off multiple directions. If you look solely at the Universal Century Gundams (comprised of 4 TV series, 2 or 3 feature movies--depending on if you count G-Saviour, and 5, soon to be 6 OVA series, which is STILL a larger and thus more significant body of work than what Macross has to offer), you can do exactly that. Technology evolves for each series in a logical manner, base on their location in the overall timeline. Different characters, different themes, but same overall storyline and same history. So you qualm just doesn't apply here.

As for the alternate universes in Gundam, they are meant to be ALTERNATE... They are NOT targeted towards the same audiences and as such their creators don't generally care about existing Gundam fans (though they do try to put one or two homages here or there). That's why there is absolutely no continuity needed between different Gundam universes.

Macross hasn't gotten to the stage where it NEEDS the different universes. There's no need or expectations for it to reach completely new audiences without catering to existing fans, unlike Gundam. In another words, the Gundam name is significant and recognizable enough such that it WILL sell to pretty much anybody, while Macross NEEDS its fans to support it. That's why it can't just abandon its timeline that easily.

the different Macross storylines are very different from each other, although they do always references the original Macross/Robotech artifacts, for example, Macross Plus, Macross Zero, Macross 2, 7, are all unrelated storylines, yet connected somehow by the main theme,

Gundam storylines on the other hand, are just rehashed over and over, as long as there are some mobile suits that resembles Gundam in the series, you can call it "Gundam <substitute phrase here>", or whatever.

Again, you can't compare Macross with Gundam this way. Macross only has TWO completed TV series and one currently in the air, and Frontier is already "rehashing" many of the ideas of the previous shows. Gundam has ELEVEN shows ranging from 39 to 51 episodes. There's really only so much variations of the same earth vs. space formula that you can use, which leads to viewer fatigue if you're crazy enough (like me) to watch through all of them. Not to mention there ARE some VERY unique Gundam TV series out, such as G, X, Turn A and 00 that completely stray from the typical formulas. Thus far, I'd say the original SDF and 7 have very different storylines and Frontier is a combination of the themes from the two of them so far, with a sprinkle of contemporary anime trends.

The other works, the movies & OVAs, are unique in both franchises. 2, Plus, Dynamite 7 and Zero have drastically different storylines, but so do 0080, 0083, 08th MS Team, MS IGLOO, etc.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-19, 20:02

dammn gundam fanboys......

*spray the topic with gudamcide*

:p

brightman

2008-04-19, 22:41

dammn gundam fanboys......

*spray the topic with gudamcide*

:p

Bah. Macross > Gundam in many ways, just not the way you stated. So please try again. :p

tetsuo69

2008-04-20, 00:59

i also agreed macross-->Gundam xD ^^

4Tran

2008-04-20, 01:22

No. You think that way because the Gundam franchise is signficantly larger than Macross's and branches off multiple directions. If you look solely at the Universal Century Gundams (comprised of 4 TV series, 2 or 3 feature movies--depending on if you count G-Saviour, and 5, soon to be 6 OVA series, which is STILL a larger and thus more significant body of work than what Macross has to offer), you can do exactly that. Technology evolves for each series in a logical manner, base on their location in the overall timeline. Different characters, different themes, but same overall storyline and same history. So you qualm just doesn't apply here.
That's only partially the reason. While most of the longer Gundam shows share very familiar structures and themes, the Macross ones have historically been totally different from one another. So far only Macross Frontier bears any similarity to any of the previous ones; and even in this case, most of these similarities are played up as homages rather than being particularly substantiative.

Moreover, Macross is much more of an auteur work firmly in the control of Kawamori - perhaps moreso than any other franchise in anime. While there are advantages to both this approach and a more diverse creative staff, it makes it a lot easier to create a sense of lineage even when exploring totally different ideas and themes.

Macross hasn't gotten to the stage where it NEEDS the different universes. There's no need or expectations for it to reach completely new audiences without catering to existing fans, unlike Gundam. In another words, the Gundam name is significant and recognizable enough such that it WILL sell to pretty much anybody, while Macross NEEDS its fans to support it. That's why it can't just abandon its timeline that easily.
This argument seems reasonable, but I don't know if the facts support it. If all of the Macross shows were meant to cater to the same audience, then why is it that they're all so very different from one another. Moreover, Macross Plus wasn't even originally envisioned as a Macross work to begin with.

brightman

2008-04-20, 07:03

That's only partially the reason. While most of the longer Gundam shows share very familiar structures and themes, the Macross ones have historically been totally different from one another. So far only Macross Frontier bears any similarity to any of the previous ones; and even in this case, most of these similarities are played up as homages rather than being particularly substantiative.

Most of the longer Gundam shows. As I have already stated, there are only two long completed Macross shows, both of which are very different, yes, but the third one already seems similar.

This argument seems reasonable, but I don't know if the facts support it. If all of the Macross shows were meant to cater to the same audience, then why is it that they're all so very different from one another. Moreover, Macross Plus wasn't even originally envisioned as a Macross work to begin with.
Because a new and fresh approach to a familiar setting is what fans tend to want, not the same series over and over again.

DonQuigleone

2008-04-20, 07:36

My main gripe with Gundam series is that I don't like the characters as much,they don't tend to have the same earthy concerns that Macross protagonists have (do you ever see a gundam pilot spend more time pondering their love life over stopping the war?).

I do think Gundam has cooler Mechs though, most Valkyries look very similiar to each other. Gundam 00 had awesome Mechs, but I never liked any of the pilots (except Lockon, he was cool, though no Maximillian Jenius).

brightman

2008-04-20, 10:27

My main gripe with Gundam series is that I don't like the characters as much,they don't tend to have the same earthy concerns that Macross protagonists have (do you ever see a gundam pilot spend more time pondering their love life over stopping the war?).
But that's what people in a war do... When people are fighting a war, they care about life and death, not some love triangle and kiddie crushes.

But you do have a point, Macross was one of the pioneers of the space opera genre for mecha anime, so it does tend to appeal to certain viewers more than hard war shows. After all, Macross emphasizes the characters, drama and relationships, Gundam emphasizes war tragedies and mecha. Whether you like one or the other depends on what you look for in a TV show.

Cadorna

2008-04-20, 12:07

I do think Gundam has cooler Mechs though, most Valkyries look very similiar to each other. Gundam 00 had awesome Mechs, but I never liked any of the pilots (except Lockon, he was cool, though no Maximillian Jenius).

Well , most plane in the world look similar in reality

4Tran

2008-04-20, 13:15

Most of the longer Gundam shows. As I have already stated, there are only two long completed Macross shows, both of which are very different, yes, but the third one already seems similar.
But note that in the first fifteen years of the Gundam franchise, the only show that deviated to any great degree from the standard formula was 0800, and that they didn't move to something completely new until Victory flopped. Macross Frontier may use some of the same cues as SDF Macross (there's almost no similarity with Macross 7 except for the colony fleet), but aside from those cues, there isn't all that much that is the same. While it's certainly possible that it may play out the same way as a previous Macross show, Frontier's so character-driven that it's premature to state that with any degree of certainty.

Because a new and fresh approach to a familiar setting is what fans tend to want, not the same series over and over again.
A fresh approach is one thing, but what's been historically done is that the Macross shows have been completely different from one another.

But that's what people in a war do... When people are fighting a war, they care about life and death, not some love triangle and kiddie crushes.
Untrue. While war can dominate daily life, the other human concerns don't go away at all. And in many ways, war accentuates the urgency of some of these other concerns.

But you do have a point, Macross was one of the pioneers of the space opera genre for mecha anime, so it does tend to appeal to certain viewers more than hard war shows. After all, Macross emphasizes the characters, drama and relationships, Gundam emphasizes war tragedies and mecha. Whether you like one or the other depends on what you look for in a TV show.
You're correct in most respects, but I don't think that it's accurate to call Gundam (or just about any other mecha show for that matter) a "hard war show".

DonQuigleone

2008-04-20, 14:24

But that's what people in a war do... When people are fighting a war, they care about life and death, not some love triangle and kiddie crushes.

I'm not sure if it's more realistic or not, however fanatics trying to stop war don't make for sympathetic characters, which is the biggest problem with gundam 00. I didn't like Setsuna, Tieria or Hallelujah cause they were somewhat like that, and flat.

Anyway we left realism far behind when we introduced Mecha (who are invariably all prototypes :P) into the equation.

brightman

2008-04-20, 15:27

But note that in the first fifteen years of the Gundam franchise, the only show that deviated to any great degree from the standard formula was 0800, and that they didn't move to something completely new until Victory flopped. Macross Frontier may use some of the same cues as SDF Macross (there's almost no similarity with Macross 7 except for the colony fleet), but aside from those cues, there isn't all that much that is the same. While it's certainly possible that it may play out the same way as a previous Macross show, Frontier's so character-driven that it's premature to state that with any degree of certainty.

A fresh approach is one thing, but what's been historically done is that the Macross shows have been completely different from one another.
Completely different in story structure, but in theme and subject matter? I have to say you're overstating the differences in the Macross franchise. The same emphasis on romance, relationships and music are all common, just presented differently. Its not like they are changing the show from one about aliens to one about mountain dwarves. IMO the stated differences are no different than those between the newer Gundam shows (I will agree that Tomino's shows tend to be fairly similar in nature), with perhaps the exception of Macross Zero.

And 0083, IMO, is as different from the "standard formula" as the Macross shows are from each other. Its not about tragedy of war, nor does it have any of the themes common to Tomino's shows.

Untrue. While war can dominate daily life, the other human concerns don't go away at all. And in many ways, war accentuates the urgency of some of these other concerns.
Perhaps I did misstate that a bit. I meant to refer to the audiences. Traditionally fans of war movies are not fans of romances and vice versa. Macross is more on the trendy side of things in that regard in order to appeal to a casual audience.

You're correct in most respects, but I don't think that it's accurate to call Gundam (or just about any other mecha show for that matter) a "hard war show".
Yeah, I agree... I was referring more to its emphasis on war and not its similarities to "real" war shows.

I'm not sure if it's more realistic or not, however fanatics trying to stop war don't make for sympathetic characters, which is the biggest problem with gundam 00. I didn't like Setsuna, Tieria or Hallelujah cause they were somewhat like that, and flat.
IMO that's more of a problem with the script than with the character concepts themselves. As I've said in the Gundam forum, Yousuke Kuroda seems to have an uncanny knack for making audiences indifferent to its characters.

But still, that's Gundam 00, not Gundam in general.

4Tran

2008-04-20, 22:46

Completely different in story structure, but in theme and subject matter? I have to say you're overstating the differences in the Macross franchise. The same emphasis on romance, relationships and music are all common, just presented differently. Its not like they are changing the show from one about aliens to one about mountain dwarves. IMO the stated differences are no different than those between the newer Gundam shows (I will agree that Tomino's shows tend to be fairly similar in nature), with perhaps the exception of Macross Zero.
I find that commonalities of broad themes like romance and relationships are vague enough that they're not particularly significant unless they're either tackled from the same angle or there are other similarities. In this regard, the Macross shows really are completely different.

And 0083, IMO, is as different from the "standard formula" as the Macross shows are from each other. Its not about tragedy of war, nor does it have any of the themes common to Tomino's shows.
That's arguable, but in terms of story structure, it's very true to its roots.

Perhaps I did misstate that a bit. I meant to refer to the audiences. Traditionally fans of war movies are not fans of romances and vice versa. Macross is more on the trendy side of things in that regard in order to appeal to a casual audience.
You may be surprised: many of the better war films and novels out there also have love stories. A lot of authors use them as a balance for the more destructive elements. Moreover, even in war stories with no romance of note, depicting characters in events that have little to do with the war itself goes a long way in making them more interesting.

DonQuigleone

2008-04-21, 01:03

Perhaps I did misstate that a bit. I meant to refer to the audiences. Traditionally fans of war movies are not fans of romances and vice versa. Macross is more on the trendy side of things in that regard in order to appeal to a casual audience.

You have a point here, the only war movie with substantial romance I've seen, Pearl Harbour, was god awful. That said I think that Macross, and Gundam to a lesser extent, are only superficially war stories and are really more like space operas (a la Star Wars).

IMO that's more of a problem with the script than with the character concepts themselves. As I've said in the Gundam forum, Yousuke Kuroda seems to have an uncanny knack for making audiences indifferent to its characters.

But still, that's Gundam 00, not Gundam in general.

It could be the script that could be the problem I suppose, I did sympathise more with SEED's characters, but not nearly as much as Macross's (or Gurren Lagann, which is all about it's characters). You can't really compensate for a lack of good characters in a mech show. The pilot often makes the mecha cool, not the other way round. So a valk is always gonna be cool when by piloted by the likes of Maximillian Jenius or Tingman Mikhail, while Kira just makes me wanna hurl.

I think it's quite noteable that Geass is managing to pull off what Gundam didn't with regards to characters (especially with Kira-clone Suzaku, we all now hate him enough to be interested in what happens to him)

Westlo

2008-04-21, 03:50

Waiting on Klein Klan to debut :(

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-21, 03:56

all fair in love and war.

:)

N-Bomb

2008-04-27, 12:42

Waiting on Klein Klan to debut :(

Klein Klan is both awesome and annoying.

4Tran

2008-04-28, 12:43

Pizza Hut is planning a promotion for Macross Frontier:
Pizza Hut of Japan announced more details in its promotional campaign that is tied to the ongoing Macross Frontier robot anime series. Starting on May 12, people who order a medium-sized pizza will get a pizza box with a Macross Frontier design. Among those who order their pizzas online, 25 people will win signed recording scripts, manga, CDs, and posters. The campaign will also offer free computer and phone wallpaper, as well as vocal ring tones for mobile phones. The tie-in will promote the restaurant chain's new Shoka no Half & Half (Early Summer Half and Half) pizza: a half Seafood Mix pizza of lobster, squid, and broccoli, and a half Tartar Chicken pizza. Pizza Hut has tied its campaigns with anime ranging from Evangelion and Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion to Maria-sama ga Miteru.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-04-28/macross-frontier-pizza-hut-join-forces-in-new-campaign

Onizuka-GTO

2008-04-28, 15:59

where? i can't seem to see any reference to it.

in CG it's pretty obvious, probably because of the background.

but i don't think i'll be able to take a Zentradi chomping on a full size zentradi pizza.

so is there any in-scene advertisement? or is it so subtle, it can't be counted?

4Tran

2008-04-28, 16:10

There's two reasons why you won't see too much reference to Pizza Hut: the first is that the campaign isn't supposed to start until May 12; the second is that the promotion is much like the kind of movie tie-in promotion that you probably see in the UK. As such, there won't necessarily be any actual promotion of the product in the movie or Macross Frontier, but you get nifty related merchandise if you buy certain versions of the product. For example, that's the way the Maria-sama ga Miteru promotion worked, and it ran without there being any new Marimite works at all. While Code Geass did this to an amazingly blatant degree, it shouldn't be expected of any other franchise.

ipernorris

2008-05-02, 15:18

To that end, the UN pursued an aggressive policy of colonizing across the galaxy, so that a single system-wide catastrophe, first contact with a hostile wandering Zentradi fleet or other as yet unknown hostile forces could not end everything by wiping out a single world.
Yes I can understand that and i remember Misa from the original Macross saying something along these lines, but even so it could be sufficient to send colonies around the galaxy... what's the need of colonizing planets? A mobile settlement is much more efficient than a fixed one.

cerrian

2008-05-02, 16:27

Yes I can understand that and i remember Misa from the original Macross saying something along these lines, but even so it could be sufficient to send colonies around the galaxy... what's the need of colonizing planets? A mobile settlement is much more efficient than a fixed one.

The answer is surprisingly simple. Exploitation of natural resources and a stable environment to promote growth. Not to mention it provides a point of centralization for economies, industries, culture, and government.

ipernorris

2008-05-03, 02:42

The answer is surprisingly simple. Exploitation of natural resources and a stable environment to promote growth. Not to mention it provides a point of centralization for economies, industries, culture, and government.
Well the colonies seem to be pretty indipendent by themselves: they can probably recycle evreything and they created an artificial ecosystem so new planets aren't needed that much. Not to mention that resources can be exploited from asteroids too and anyway when a colony needs some resources it can stop near a suitable planet, exploit what resources are needed and then leave. Anyway I guess there isn't a unique answer to my question: in Macross world humanity has chosen to spread around the galaxy and colonize new planets so that's it. :)

PS As a side note: the strategy to spread the cuture through the galaxy in order to make it harder to destroy it it's quite flawed as well. It's true that having the culture concentrated in only one planet makes it vulnerable to being erased easily by a powerful enemy, but it's true that you can guard it with more forces. Spreading the culture around the galaxy you scatter your defenses as well and if the enemy is powerful and has large number it would be easier to destroy the culture.

Onizuka-GTO

2008-05-03, 03:48

As a side note: the strategy to spread the cuture through the galaxy in order to make it harder to destroy it it's quite flawed as well. It's true that having the culture concentrated in only one planet makes it vulnerable to being erased easily by a powerful enemy, but it's true that you can guard it with more forces. Spreading the culture around the galaxy you scatter your defenses as well and if the enemy is powerful and has large number it would be easier to destroy the culture.

Isolationism is never a good thing.

The best defence is an offence.

By spreading the forces outwards, you have a better chance of detecting hostile enemies before they even reach the earth, hence the normadic fleets and the attempt to colonize all the available planets to create a buffer zone to the home territories.

Besides as seen in Macross Plus, Earth is INSANELY Guard, the entire orbit is surrounded by weapons satellites, the higher orbit is guarded by, i reckon a battalion of capital ships that don't stop until you reach Mar's orbit.

Seriously, the Solar System is packed already.

Just leaving such a big force like that, is at a risk of stagnation.

ReddyRedWolf

2008-05-03, 04:07

Don't forget that spreading around the galaxy also means a proactive drive to assimilate whatever remaing pockets of Zentrandi and Meltrandi there is.

Take Vividas from Macross 7 for example. Her planet of origin did not have culture.
She was assimilated to the miclone-zentran society and is enamored by drumming.

Another is Chlore's fleet of Meltrandi that got culture shocked by Nekki Basara.

UN Spacy is creating a galactic wide civilization not seen since the days of the Protoculture's Stellar Republic.

If a civil war were to happen in the Macross universe it would be epic scale scary.

It is perhaps a real good move that autonomous civilian governments exist in the fleets as the power would not be centralized to one person.