Lucky Star - Episode 03 Discussion / Poll

[xris]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Lucky Star, Episode 03.

Thread Guidelines
No telling or asking for raws.
Absolutely no spoilers for future events from the manga in the anime thread.
If you need to reply to someone with a reference to the game or manga, then PM them. Any spoilers, even under the spoiler tags, that reveals future events will be deleted.
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread.


Spoiler tags still can be used where one deems appropriate. There are two ways to create clearly marked spoiler tags as they are shown in the following:

The easy way: By simply clicking on this http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.global/spoiler.gif icon which can be found in the Quick Reply or Reply to Thread template. This is how how grandma does it.

or

The macho way: By writing those l33t vB codes (http://forums.animesuki.com/misc.php?do=bbcode#spoiler) as shown in the following...

Spoiler Tag ExampleDon't forget to use a title for the spoiler!...becomes...http://content.imagesocket.com/thumbs/snapshot20070207152438157.jpg (http://imagesocket.com/view/snapshot20070207152438157.jpg)
Don't forget to use a title for the spoiler! Kon dared to forget, and look what happened!

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

About the ED for this episode...
The song is not a golden oldie, but a familiar tune for those who follow KyoAni's works. Sorega Ai Deshou, of FMP:F opening.:)

[MakubeX2]

About the ED for this episode...
The song is not a golden oldie, but a familour tune for those who follow KyoAni's works. Sorega Ai Deshou, of FMP:F opening.:)

Hirano sings that in her more natural tone. I wonder will we see a full version of that should she choose to release an album in the future.

[Nemo_N]

About the ED for this episode...
The song is not a golden oldie, but a familiar tune for those who follow KyoAni's works. Sorega Ai Deshou, of FMP:F opening.:)

OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG! OMG!

(Sorry, had to do it)

[MakubeX2]

KyoAni Trademark Spotted :-

Kagami fanservice in this Ep.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Just to clarify, Sorega Ai Deshou is licensed out by Flight Master. I actually really like the song in Super Robot Wars W. They probably are going to do new songs from now on since I bet people they knew people were going to be chaffing at all the older music.

[GHDpro]

Just finished watching it... another great ep. Apart from the reference in the ED karaoke song, there is also...
The Cromartie High School...
http://s01.imagehost.org/0768/snapshot20070422180756.jpg
http://s01.imagehost.org/0768/snapshot20070422180805.jpg
...and Paniponi Dash scenes.
http://s01.imagehost.org/0768/snapshot20070422180824.jpg
http://s01.imagehost.org/0768/snapshot20070422180830.jpg
Though the voices were a bit odd. If I read it right, the blackboard mentions "Lucky Star Dash!", and "Becky" is credited as "Loli Teacher" in the cast list btw :)It's too bad my knowledge of Japanese isn't quite good enough to understand everything, but this ep was certainly on par with ep 2 in terms of jokes, IMHO.

[MakubeX2]

Ep 3 is 95% Konata X Kagami. Of course, Kagami suffers most of the recieving end of jokes in this Ep.

PS :- Konata p0wnz Kagami in Quiz and Puzzle Games, surprisingly. But not by cheating......

PSS :- Will we see a full version of God Knows as the ED in the future ? God Knows.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Ep 3 is 95% Konata X Kagami. Of course, Kagami suffers most of the recieving end of jokes in this Ep.

PS :- Konata p0wnz Kagami in Quiz and Puzzle Games, surprisingly. But not by cheating......

PSS :- Will we see a full version of God Knows as the ED in the future ? God Knows.

I'd be willing to bet its next episode. Then Lost My Music, Then Hare Hare Yukai, Then Bouken Deshou Deshou, Then the Kanon Theme, Then the Kanon ending, Then the Air ending, Then the Full Metal Panic Second Raid Opening, Then the last episode will probably advertise the Clannad Theme. I'm pretty sure they are done with the old themes from metal hero shows and are just going to advertise the older shows they worked on now. My gut tells me so.

Mind telling me if the Quiz and Puzzle Game is one of those arcade machines with limited questions, or Quiz and Puzzle Game about stuff she digs.

And wait.... since when is fanservice a Kyoto Animation trademark and since when do they really engage in it to a degree that makes them famous for it. I'd have to say they seem to be on the lower end of the fanservice stick when it comes to animation companies. That doesn't say it isn't probably going to probably make my day depending on what it is. Loli(ish?) fanservice Huzzah!

[GHDpro]

Kagami fanservice in this Ep.
I'm not sure if you could really call that fanservice though... only her shoulders + bra straps are visible...

[Nemo_N]

I'm not sure if you could really call that fanservice though... only her shoulders + bra straps are visible...

I'm sure a few fans will drool to that nontheless...:heh:

[Kaioshin Sama]

I'm not sure if you could really call that fanservice though... only her shoulders + bra straps are visible...

I am almost can't wait :love:.

That's about as much fanservice as we are liable to get out of Kyoto Animation. Even Haruhi just barely had that cave scene and the bunny suit which never really seemed to show above or below the waistline. I wonder if Key's low ecchi count for games style has rubbed off on their partners style of animation. If there is much fanservice in Fumoffu and Second Raid, which I haven't started yet, I'm willing to bet a fair bit it was in one of the episodes that was written and directed by one of the three or so other companies involved.

[Vexx]

A few new songs in the ED would be okay... but part of the charm of the very old themes Kona sings is:
1) they're obscure to most viewers (otaku win)
2) they're terrible and she sings them so wonderfully terribly

I'm not sure what "trademark KyoAni fanservice" means either..... A bare-shouldered Kagami (bra/straps) is pretty tasteful if thats what she's doing (changing shirts, etc) -- no more than Nayuki doing the same in Kanon. Basically tasteful, in context, and normally what people do: is *that* "Kyoani fanservice"?
I'm beginning to think the term "fan service" has completely lost its original meaning.... at some point the *existence* of the series is fanservice, eh?

[GHDpro]

If there is much fanservice in Fumoffu and Second Raid, which I haven't started yet, I'm willing to bet a fair bit it was in one of the episodes that was written and directed by one of the three or so other companies involved.
There is not much fan service in every episode of FMP:F or FMP TSR, but in certain episodes there is loads of it. In the first five minutes of the FMP TSR OVA for example, we get to see Tessa in underwear and under the shower (and they show about as much as they can without turning FMP into soft-hentai or something)... so KyoAni is definitely not shy of fan service.

But we're getting off-topic here, this thread is about Lucky Star ep 3 :)

[Deathkillz]

boy this is jut one of those series where you cant understand the cracks without the subs =.= so skipping ahead to the end song ~
FMP song...ahh its been so long since ive last heard this and it got cut short! O.o *begins playing full version*
looking forward to watching this ;)

[Woland]

KyoAni Trademark Spotted :-

You mean this one?

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/734/snapshot20070422185855uf4.jpg

[Kaioshin Sama]

There is not much fan service in every episode of FMP:F or FMP TSR, but in certain episodes there is loads of it. In the first five minutes of the FMP TSR OVA for example, we get to see Tessa in underwear and under the shower (and they show about as much as they can without turning FMP into soft-hentai or something)... so KyoAni is definitely not shy of fan service.

But we're getting off-topic here, this thread is about Lucky Star ep 3 :)

Eh, still don't consider the FMP adaptation to be written entirely by Kyoto Animation, but they didn't refuse to animate the scenes so I guess it's true they aren't shy about it. If they were the chief director who is from Kyoto Animation and Shoji Gatoh would have turned it down. As I said I'm willing to bet those certain episodes are the ones written by the other Film Partner companies.

Back on topic. Now what's this scene in the spoiler tag here. I don't see any fanservice or a trademark there. Vexx also mentioned the term losing its original meaning which I agree with. In its original context Fanservice is something that the companies do to please fans and win easy support without having much bearing on the important details of the series (Which in Kyoto Animations case would almost be their Modus Operandi from the get go since they frequently have poll asking what people want them to do next for a series. I find they customize their shows very much to their bases tastes so as to be fan pleasing throughout. It's a no fail strategy really). Anyway for the traditional meaning of fanservice, even something such as the shiny glint on the metal of a mecha that is deliberately made apparent to the audience would qualify as fanservice. Rie Kugimiya's trademark "Urasai" or "Spaz Freak" would also be her doing fan service for her fans. The vast majority of it though has been showing skin so its come to refer to that exclusively these days. I unfortunately haven't seen episode 3 yet so I can't comment on the "fanservice" throughout, but if that spoiler pic is it, I have no idea what they are doing other than showing the back of a characters head.

[Nemo_N]

I know, rather unnecessary, but I love this OP:

Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu OP
0k2nSIkIu8g

Mikuni Shimokawa, Full PV here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtCdrYPLimQ)

I dare you not to loop this one :D .

[Kaioshin Sama]

I know, rather unnecessary, but I love this OP:

0k2nSIkIu8g

Mikuni Shimokawa, Full PV here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtCdrYPLimQ)

I dare you not to loop this one :D .

Meh. I prefer the off vocal version in Super Robot Wars W. The singer just gets a bit too nasalish for my tastes in certain parts of the song. I've never been a big fan of any of the songs featured in series Kyoto Animation has animated, they are aimed at a very specific group that doesn't include me. I wish I could upload a clip of the version I'm talking about, but its a DS game.

Once again though a theme song is overshadowing the actual episode which is what this topic is here to discuss. I'd ask if this could possibly be moved to the music discussion forum (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=46171) and discussion pertaining to music might be discussed there exclusively if possible. What do the moderators say?

[Kaoru Chujo]

Okay, I'm hooked. I liked the "Good Job," Konata's face coming closer and closer to Kagami and the viewer, Konata pwning at even a quiz game (questions not shown, but it was Kagami's game and she expected to win), and Aaya's beautiful singing in the ED. I think she'd probably had enough of singling badly and had to do a good one. (She likes Avril (http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3770/78111sx9.jpg), but I like her singing softer songs better than rock.) I expect we'll hear others singing now, since didn't they say at the end of the first episode that Kona-chan grabbed the first three songs? And there isn't the least doubt that this ED will show up in full version on a CD. I'd be shocked if there weren't character CDs for this show.

[Nemo_N]

Once again though a theme song is overshadowing the actual episode which is what this topic is here to discuss. I'd ask if this could possibly be moved to the music discussion forum (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=46171) and discussion pertaining to music might be discussed there exclusively if possible. What do the moderators say?

Oops. Once again, you're right.

[Vexx]

Aye.. Kona has done her 3 songs now...its likely we'll hear each of the characters do a few songs in various off/on keys.

Makes me wonder what the others like to hear (I suspect Miyuki will do more anime songs since she liked what Kona was singing .... Kagami is a big question mark as is her sister).

I just realized the construction of Kagami's eyes remind me of the way Azumanga's Sakaki's eyes are drawn. Not a cultural reference... just an eye structure similarity. Its probably why I keep glancing at her rather than just obsessing on Kona :)

This is one case where the "ED" is really part of the show.... so it may continue to be appropriate to at least discuss it in that context :)

[Nemo_N]

...I just realized the construction of Kagami's eyes remind me of the way Azumanga's Sakaki's eyes are drawn. ...

Kagami's eyes do add to her "I'm smart" look, which made seeing her in kawaii mode much more disturbing :heh: .

Once again, heavy dialogue, which means I'll just rewatch it for the cute imagery (until subs come out)

Mmh... If they show more flustered Kagami images, I'm afraid I'll have to jump from the Konata wagon to Skane's Kagami Fan Wagon :p .

[Kaioshin Sama]

Aye.. Kona has done her 3 songs now...its likely we'll hear each of the characters do a few songs in various off/on keys.

Makes me wonder what the others like to hear (I suspect Miyuki will do more anime songs since she liked what Kona was singing .... Kagami is a big question mark as is her sister).

I just realized the construction of Kagami's eyes remind me of the way Azumanga's Sakaki's eyes are drawn. Not a cultural reference... just an eye structure similarity. Its probably why I keep glancing at her rather than just obsessing on Kona :)

This is one case where the "ED" is really part of the show.... so it may continue to be appropriate to at least discuss it in that context :)

I would guess Miyuki would give us a bunch of kids show renditions. Something along the lines of Candy Candy or Doraemon. Kagami is an unknown. I had never thought that maybe each of the characters will get a turn, but now it seems obvious to me.

[Deathkillz]

Kagami's eyes do add to her "I'm smart" look, which made seeing her in kawaii mode much more disturbing :heh: .

Once again, heavy dialogue, which means I'll just rewatch it for the cute imagery (until subs come out)

Mmh... If they show more flustered Kagami images, I'm afraid I'll have to jump from the Konata wagon to Skane's Kagami Fan Wagon :p .


ill just stick both of the wagons together with super glue if need be :p but i do think that kagami has this Ojo thing going on (just look at the way she walks in the OP :D)
Makes me wonder what the others like to hear (I suspect Miyuki will do more anime songs since she liked what Kona was singing .... Kagami is a big question mark as is her sister).

tsukasa would probably follow the crowd while kagami would be forced to sing what kona picks for her :heh:

[krln99]

What was surprising is that Kona gave advice on how to send cards and how to do girl's stuff like do hair in a ponytail. You'd think she wouldn't be into that. I think it surprised Kagami, too, given the look of shock on her face.

[NaweG]

I know, rather unnecessary, but I love this OP:

For those of us not as much in the know... what series is this the OP to?

[Mirrinus]

For those of us not as much in the know... what series is this the OP to?

Full Metal Panic: Fumoffu. The very first full animated TV series credited to Kyoto Animation, I believe. Good humor series, lol.

[Mueti]

In the first five minutes of the FMP TSR OVA for example, we get to see Tessa in underwear and under the shower (and they show about as much as they can without turning FMP into soft-hentai or something)... so KyoAni is definitely not shy of fan service.
Whoo, never heard of that, I'm gonna check this OVA out for sure. :D

As for Lucky Star, the second episode was kinda tough on me without subtitles, I didn't quite get everything, so this time I'll go for the first subbed version instead of the raw.
In general I'm just not otaku enough for a lot of the references though, but oh well... :heh:

[Kaioshin Sama]

Full Metal Panic: Fumoffu. The very first full animated TV series credited to Kyoto Animation, I believe. Good humor series, lol.

Partially credited actually. Let's not forget Gonzo's involvement along with Sunrise and....er Master of Entertaiment (actually let's forget that one). Yes even FMP Fummofu and Second Raid still had Gonzo staff in writing and directing postions, although not chief director. The first true series that can be fully credited to Kyoto Animation is Air.

[kj1980]

Am I the only one who recognized Konata's reference to "Wedding Peach" when they were talking about wedding dresses ("Yumega Ippai, Furil ippai~," Angel Salvia, Angel Daisy) wwww

[WanderingKnight]

Hahaha, full of pwning punchlines by Kona-chan, and an amazing Hirano to boost. I can't wait till subs are out to see how much I've lost.

[dahl_moon]

Am I the only one who recognized Konata's reference to "Wedding Peach" when they were talking about wedding dresses ("Yumega Ippai, Furil ippai~," Angel Salvia, Angel Daisy) wwww
OMG, OMG! I cannot believe I missed that! That was one of my favorite shows, too (yeah, I'm a guy, and I love "Wedding Peach, " so sue me:heh:)

Anyway, heavy on the dialog side, so I'll have to post my thoughts until after the subs come out. Of what I did understand was: Kagami and her (as of yet only...) a point against Konata: "It's more fun to solve that yourself." "That means you know it's important to do it yourself, including homework?"

BTW, the "fanservice" image of the episode IMO would be Konata inside the train.
Edit: Hm... never seen FMP; didn't me leave a good first impression and I dropped it. Wonder if that was a bad idea.... As Nemo_N says, I can't stop from looping it :heh:

[dkellis]

As expected, humour really is better when one knows all the injokes. The previous two episodes were pretty amusing for me, but this one was hilarious. When the PPD reference appeared, I just about fell out of my chair laughing. I'd imagine that if it were some other anime that I haven't seen, the humour there would have been tepid at best.

Similarly, I was kind of ambivalent about the previous two "ending songs", but when I heard the opening chords to this one, I had this big stupid grin on my face.

Lots of dialogue here, as usual. I'll wait for the subs to really understand it, but the references I did get were well worth the price of admission.

[Skane]

;915338']You mean this one?

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/734/snapshot20070422185855uf4.jpg
It is only to my regret that none of them said the following,

"PONY." :heh:

Already made two new Kagami avatars (three actually, but I decided to reject the first one due to lack of quality), with more on the way. :D

Cheers.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Does anyone think the quiz game I hear about from this episode might have anything to do with advertising this (http://www.kadokawa.co.jp/game/game/rakisuta/index01.html). I think the premise is you square of against one of the characters in a quiz/puzzle duel answering impossible questions (http://www.kadokawa.co.jp/lukdemo/dor3.gif) with answers like these (http://www.kadokawa.co.jp/lukdemo/dor4.gif).

[MakubeX2]

Amazing.

The Ponytail Association Of Japan do exist.

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%9D%E3%83%8B%E3%83%BC%E3%83%86%E3%83%BC%E3%8 3%AB

And 7th of July is really Ponytail Day in Japan.

[Level E]

Flora or Bianca. Flora or Bianca.
:sad:

I couldn't help laughing as soon as I heard Konata making that referrence.
Even more so, when Kagami knew the game it was from. :LOL:

[Anh_Minh]

I agree that Kagami kinda looked like a warrior, but I also think she's the one that looked best with a ponytail.

After that talk of "love", I wonder how she'd get along with Papillon? (Busou Renkin).

[Jazzrat]

I like how they turn useful knowledge into humor like posting to get into lucky draws, twins, june wedding and etc.

This is a Konata and Kagami episode, the two of em really made the humor works for me, more so than Miyuki or Tsukasa.

[Woland]

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9919/snapshot20070424141535kg0.jpg

I'm not really sure we can talk of armies...

Ok let's count those with an Akira's Avatar :D


Well three episode and it begin to deliver, in a right way

1) Kagami&Konata. The duo is the column of the series and so far it work very well. In the future more characters are coming, with the hope these are on the same level, but at least there's chance for more variety (24 ep are long).
2) Tsukasa. The cute and ladylike side of Kagami, she is a nice touch even if not prominent. I was not to fond of her in the manga (and in the first episode too) but I'm starting to like her like her sister.
3) Miyuki. Take her out of the series and it wouldn't change anything, if not in better. I'm sorry for the supporters but I can't find her of any use (and there's no Haruhi around to give her a proper lesson :D)
4) Lucky Channel. Still work for me (and this time better tan in second ep), we'll see in the future.
5) Aya Hirano. This is her show, no less. And I was really perplexed at the beginning (when cast was announced), simply because I don't rank her to high in my preference (aside for SHnY in which she was great, but it's common knowledge ). Well now I'm waiting for the raw just to listen her performance on the ending (this time she was serious but she still has a god voice when she sing), and her voice is more flexible than I thought (but still highly recognizable).

I'm still perplexed with some line (like the ending sketch), but I'll wait for a.f.k. sub. Worked last time.

[KiNA]

My comment for the episode..

Ponytail Kagami is win.

:D :love: :D

[Vexx]

Miyuki's purpose in the anime and in the manga from whence it derives....
1) Exposition Girl & Encyclopedia Girl
2) Klutzy Moe Satire
3) These sorts of people are just part of the landscape in life. Slice'o'life doesn't have "purpose" like that because life isn't ordered that way either.

I'd argue the show is an ensemble effort. The Kona character (and ergo Hirano) really *needs* Kagami to push off of, she needs Miyuki for an observational foil. Kagami *needs* Tsukasa for twin contrast. Calling this "Hirano's show" is really a disservice to the other characters and their VAs.

It's rather like calling MASH "Alan Alda's show" (Hawkeye) when, in fact, his character only works in combination with the other characters.

Actually, I was fairly disappointed in Kona's third song.... The first two songs and their delivery really reflected Kona's personality.... the last was just "Hirano singing" rather than her doing the Kona character, imo. The VA should never overshadow the character.

[Anime Online]

Kona-chan & Kagami's comedy chemistry is high this episode. As for parody/references, we have Virtua Fighter this week again! There are fighting games references in the past episodes as well, so I'm looking forward to see what they'll have for next week.

Lucky-Channel fansubs are really improving too. Keep up the good work! /does Kona-chan's "Good job!" imitation.

Last but not least, Kona-chan's "aha!" at 2:32 and "Good job!" at 19:44 are really cute!

[Nemo_N]

I see in Miyuki some mother-like characteristics, asides the encyclopedia/moe ones :p .

Actually, I was fairly disappointed in Kona's third song.... The first two songs and their delivery really reflected Kona's personality.... the last was just "Hirano singing" rather than her doing the Kona character, imo. The VA should never overshadow the character.

I agree. As much as I love this song and Aya performing it, this went a little off the road.

I know this might sound silly, but the fanboy in me rationalized this as "since Full Metal Panic is one Kagami's favorite series, and Konata pretty much monopolized the first songs, she wanted to give a nice performance for her friend"

Yeah, yuri fanboy alert :heh: .

[Deathkillz]

not a bad ep but still not as good as the previous two imo ~
kona really isnt very self concious is she? :heh: kagami just doesnt know what to do with her after seeing her trying to cool down on the train...but i would have just let her be if i was in that situation tbh XD never the less kona truly is the most intellegent...if only she wasnt an otaku i could see her going far ~ kagami getting speechless after loosing a general knowledge test O.o
and heres another trademark...pony tails!!! now where is kyon when you need him? :rolleyes:

"armies of lolicon" ~ haha!

[Kaioshin Sama]

;918087']http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9919/snapshot20070424141535kg0.jpg

I'm not really sure we can talk of armies...

Ok let's count those with an Akira's Avatar :D


Guess I missed the Call of Duty then. Probably wouldn't join her army anyway, there's better ones out there.

With the third ending being so off theme compared to the other ones, I can't help but feel there are commercial reasons. Maybe Aya Hirano is getting a cover album single of the Full Metal Panic: Fumoffu opening ready. I wouldn't be surprised if it pops up for sale within the next month.

[Woland]

Miyuki's purpose in the anime and in the manga from whence it derives....
1) Exposition Girl & Encyclopedia Girl
2) Klutzy Moe Satire
3) These sorts of people are just part of the landscape in life. Slice'o'life doesn't -cut-

Right, so far Miyuki has more or less the appeal of a pink haired google to me. I'm not arguing on "purpose" but more on the appeal. Probably I'm just not too fond to this kind of character and, so far the related moe satire didn't strike me.
Let's see, Tsukasa had a slow start, and Miyuki didn't show so much after the first ep.

For the Hirano's Show, well, is probably a too strong expression, but it's not that I'm saying that she is overshadowing the others characters/VA. But she is prominent so far, or is what I feel after all the ending is one of my favorite parts of this show.

[Vexx]

I was probably being a bit too testy.... Its clear that at least the first part of the series is going to focus on the Kagami/Kona dynamic so they're definitely front and center. I'm betting the latter part of the series will still center on the two but in how they relate to the other characters (like the teacher, cop, and Kona's dad). I do hope they're going to have Kona's dad and Kona's family backstory :)

edit: ep 3 pretty much sets the series for me..... its like watching a classic "Peanuts" (not the later garbage) or reading Calvin&Hobbes. Basically satisfying, occasional laughter, frequent smiles, not stunning but... just right?

[Ashlotte]

Well this episode didnt really change my opinion of the show in general, which is the "main" part with kona and the rest gives me a few chuckles while LC at the end makes me laugh so hard it hurts. :p

The lolicon bit was great, but the best for me was when she guilt tripped minoru into moving his chair over then immediatly moved hers away...Akira-sama why sooo cruel. :heh:

[Anh_Minh]

I may be alone in this, but I think they abused the Konata/Kagami dynamic in this episode. It's great, but it should be spiced more with Tsukasa and Miyuki.

[Kaoru Chujo]

1. On 2channel, the early consensus was that ep3 is better than ep2 is better than ep1. I think that was probably a matter of getting used to the style and adjusting one's expectations. I think this show pretty much is what it is, and if you can get into its groove, you can enjoy it. The conversations about entering contests and about twins were simple classics that I'm sure we are going to remember, whether we laughed out loud at them or not.

2. As for Aya "overshadowing" her character in the song, we are talking about an ED (sort of) here. Some people complained about no ED before, now the otherwise sensible Vexx complains when we almost get one, and Aya sings it so beautifully. One of this show's strengths is its self-refentiality and breaking the fourth wall. Get used to it. I'm sure that Akira-sama's comments in ep1 were meant to make us think of Aya, the former child star, who may still not be in control of her own finances.

Kaioshin, I am really looking forward to hearing Aya sing that whole song -- and I am sure we will get to, whether on a character CD or elsewhere. Maybe there will be both character CDs and ED compilations. We'll see. And I'm not trying to tease you here, I really do look forward to hearing them.

3. Being a bit of a walking encyclopedia myself (i.e., didactic and boring), I love that aspect of Miyuki. I also like her insecurity, and even her klutziness. It's always better for someone who's perfect to have faults, lol. And her courteous perfection is such a contrast with Kona-chan's "get". I think Anh_Minh makes some sense, though, too: they have to be careful with the Kona-Kagami dominance. But of course, I am most looking forward to the appearance of Sasaki Nozomi's character, Patty Martin.

4. Funniest bits of ep3: Kona-chan fanning herself on the train. Kona-chan telling Miyuki "Good Job." Akira-sama moving over. That last thing was brilliant. I loved how neatly they timed it.

[Vexx]

well... I never asked for an ED. I don't *need* an ED if we can get karaoke-hell from the characters and they can't really sing well (actually I was hoping it'd turn out that Tsukasa was the only who could actually sing). I thought that was somewhat innovative that the credit sequence was really part of the show :)

I was happy with the characters singing in-character notion instead of a "traditional" ED. I'm not going to say Kona *couldn't* mimic an "adult" singer, only that it doesn't seem to be her natural self. It does *look* as if they were pushing something other than Kona's characterization. At least they tried to cover it by having Kagami rag on Kona about "imitating" someone and *she* likes FMP.

Don't misunderstand, I *like* Hirano's 'grown up' singing voice and please don't think I'm bashing her. I just thought it didn't fit here for Kona and wasn't the greatest characterization moment. And they really don't break the fourth wall inside the main content area of the show (I don't count their remarks on popular culture and things because they *are* high school girls and various levels of otaku -- that's what they do.). Its only Lucky*Channel that really breaks the wall and its great in that context.

As far as 2 and 3, I'm assuming (because of the 4-koma material) that once they establish the Kona/Kagami terrain, we'll get to see more of the other characters in action and with their own stories.

I love sensei's *terrible* fake regional accent. The VA revels in it. I also like how Akira totally fails at it and can hardly read it.

The poor guy in the train was given a free show from Kona whether he wanted it or not :) He couldn't decide whether to actively look away or just defocus -- but he couldn't avoid blushing. Pure Kona....

As far as 2chan goes.... interesting, I think each show was pretty good but ep 1 slightly better (mostly because I thought the food routine was sublime). ep 3 is more "girls doing girl things" which probably got those guys all hot and twitchy :) I suppose I should express my otaku-ness by mapping which source material maps where in the episodes and which is anime-original and which is modified source.

[Kaoru Chujo]

...Don't misunderstand, I *like* Hirano's 'grown up' singing voice and please don't think I'm bashing her....Haha. Caught me. But I did realize that wasn't what you were saying. I think my reaction is a combination of the fact that I loved hearing that voice doing what I thought was so well, and also that I personally felt I'd had enough of off-key Kona-chan. Different strokes. It certainly shocked me at first, but I dug it so much I didn't care that it didn't sound at all like Kona-chan, despite what Tsukasa (?) said. I dug that disconnect, to be honest. But you're right about the fourth wall in the show itself, I think. Nevertheless, the whole thing has the air of self-referentiality hanging around it like a fog.

[Samatarou]

My favourite moment was right at the start when Tsukasa opens the door and is still wearing the old uniform, and then on seeing what Kagami is wearing just slowly closes the door again without a word, totally rofl moment for me.

She's something of an Osaka character I think, like how she slept through the holidays in ep.2 and also the moment in ep1 when she's just woken up and finds Miyuki is visiting and again quietly closes the door as if she's hoping that maybe she can rewind those last few seconds of her life and do a take two.

[aorta]

The Pippin and 3DO references were great.

Does anyone know what Kagami is reading in the bookstore?

[Risaa]

My favourite moment was right at the start when Tsukasa opens the door and is still wearing the old uniform, and then on seeing what Kagami is wearing just slowly closes the door again without a word, totally rofl moment for me.

Aah hontou hontou! I loved that part. I love moments like that, even IRL, when it just becomes dead silent because it's so awkward. XD

*cough* I finally was able to watch the whole episode. After everybody else. ._. Anyways, I have mixed feelings about it.

- I'm very, very disappointed with the karaoke part at the end (this has already been discussed. I'm late. ._.) No offense, but I don't care about the seiyuu; it's supposed to be Kona-chan singing karaoke. Her personality didn't show with this song at all. Bah.

- The more I watch Lucky Star, the more I like the background music. It's lighthearted and cute - it totally fits with this show. I especially like it during the Lucky Channel segment. I'm not sure if this happened in the other two episodes (I wasn't paying attention), but the music sounded all *depressed* when Minoru was introducing himself. Then when it goes back to Akira, it's genki again! <3

- It was nice to see that Miyuki does have flaws after all. I was very much (~_~) when she popped in the episode early on to explain to the girls about June weddings; I was beginning to feel like she'll only pop in when the girls need an encyclopedia - after all, it's more interesting having a character explain things than showing characters researching stuff in books. (Although now, having said that, I have to wonder about Kona-chan. As much as she does homework anywho, I wonder what kind of bored neko-no-kao she would make. :heh: ) Anyways, as Kona-chan pointed out, Miyuki scored moe points for the scene in the library.

- I love how Kagami got Kona-chan back in the scene in which Kona-chan is saying something about how Kagami should find the solution herself (to the game), and Kagami throws that logic back at Kona-chan. Kagami deserves cookies.

- The Lucky Channel segment was good, IMO. Akira-sama didn't go berserk this time, which I consider a good thing; it was already starting to get a little old. I really like that she messed up again while reading, especially since she told Minoru in the previous episode, "even a monkey can just read from the script". (I totally dig LC's translation of that. XD) I think the first two Lucky Channel segments were (among other things) providing the audience with a warning, "now you know the real Akira-sama; don't be surprised if she blows her top in the future."

...Hmm, I had more to say, but I've forgotten it. :heh:

[Level E]

3. Being a bit of a walking encyclopedia myself (i.e., didactic and boring), I love that aspect of Miyuki. I also like her insecurity, and even her klutziness. It's always better for someone who's perfect to have faults, lol. And her courteous perfection is such a contrast with Kona-chan's "get". I think Anh_Minh makes some sense, though, too: they have to be careful with the Kona-Kagami dominance. But of course, I am most looking forward to the appearance of Sasaki Nozomi's character, Patty Martin.


If you like Miyuki, you'll probably like her mom then :heh:
I really hope they throw in the bit from the the last Comptiq into the anime. It was classic.


The one thing I wonder about Lucky Star was Yui-chan (the police officer in the OP). How intentional is her husband's name? He has never appeared yet in the 4Koma and his only exists as a voice on the phone as he's always away somewhere. I'll laugh if his seiyuu turns out to be Kazuhiko Inoue. :heh:

The characters I'm personally waiting for... Yukari~n, Soujirou, & Misao.
I'll be estatic if Hikage-chan and Sakuraba & Amahara-sensei are planned to appear in the anime - not sure if they are tho.

[Pakxenon]

-Spot-on Konata VS Kagami (basically, 80% of this episode). Their chemistry is pretty good.
-Kagami's changing scene reminded me of Nayuki from Kanon...
-Konata in the train... I've seen too many train HCGs...
-I have not watched PPD. Is it THAT good? I'm watching (waiting on subs...) Negima!? and the humor isn't that great. (That and MSN manga is soooo much better).
-Lucky Channel isn't producing the same spark since episode 1. 1 had a reasonable situation for Akira to go wild on us, but the recent two didn't have a good base for her reactions. And it IS the best section of the show no doubt...

I've given 7/10's to all episodes. Episode one could have gotten an 8 if it weren't for an extremely dragged out 8-minute food scene.

[Wandering_Youth]

I liked this episode a lot because Konata + Kagami = bunch of laughs. I never knew Tsubasa and Kagami were fraternal twins. They are totallt different from each other like B&W in terms of personality. I smiled so hard during the train scene where Konata was fanning here skirt in public. That was just awsome! :D

[Kaioshin Sama]

1. On 2channel, the early consensus was that ep3 is better than ep2 is better than ep1. I think that was probably a matter of getting used to the style and adjusting one's expectations. I think this show pretty much is what it is, and if you can get into its groove, you can enjoy it. The conversations about entering contests and about twins were simple classics that I'm sure we are going to remember, whether we laughed out loud at them or not.

2. As for Aya "overshadowing" her character in the song, we are talking about an ED (sort of) here. Some people complained about no ED before, now the otherwise sensible Vexx complains when we almost get one, and Aya sings it so beautifully. One of this show's strengths is its self-refentiality and breaking the fourth wall. Get used to it. I'm sure that Akira-sama's comments in ep1 were meant to make us think of Aya, the former child star, who may still not be in control of her own finances.

Kaioshin, I am really looking forward to hearing Aya sing that whole song -- and I am sure we will get to, whether on a character CD or elsewhere. Maybe there will be both character CDs and ED compilations. We'll see. And I'm not trying to tease you here, I really do look forward to hearing them.

3. Being a bit of a walking encyclopedia myself (i.e., didactic and boring), I love that aspect of Miyuki. I also like her insecurity, and even her klutziness. It's always better for someone who's perfect to have faults, lol. And her courteous perfection is such a contrast with Kona-chan's "get". I think Anh_Minh makes some sense, though, too: they have to be careful with the Kona-Kagami dominance. But of course, I am most looking forward to the appearance of Sasaki Nozomi's character, Patty Martin.

4. Funniest bits of ep3: Kona-chan fanning herself on the train. Kona-chan telling Miyuki "Good Job." Akira-sama moving over. That last thing was brilliant. I loved how neatly they timed it.

Well they kind of set a precedent that Konata is like the average Japanese salaryman walking into a Karaoke Salon and completely butchering a song. Now to suddenly have her be an uber singer doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't she have done all the songs before extremely well.

I think its 1/2 not wanting to mangle a song from a newer series that fan's may be attached too (plus a series they are involved in) and 1/2 the fact that the song licenses are relatively cheap and they want to push a character image CD with her version of Sorega Ai Deshou on it. Sure it's nice, but its out of place. If they do a version of all three renditions it will just kind of be ridiculous. Why one song and not the other two. It seems like they chickened out of it or something, like they previewed two episodes before a test audience and got the thumbs down on the endings and scrapped the idea of bad karaoke ending all together for episode 3 onwards in favour of a semi traditionall melody. We'll know by episode 4 if that's the case or not.

Keep in mind this isn't me saying I don't want her to use her singing abilility, but that this is strictly speaking in terms of it not fitting the character. Kona is not Aya Hirano, and it seemed they were pushing the Voice Actor in this ending rather than the quirky character for commerical purposes. I'm sure it's likeable, but it mucks with the characters established ability. Had she been previously established to be a talented singer then I wouldn't be analyzing the ending at all.

[Cai Calamigarde]

I was wondering;
why are they talking about smells everytime when the screen switches in while they are talking each other. :confused: :) :heh:

[mouhitori]

My take on the ending karaoke debacle:

The type of songs in eps 1& 2 is somewhat different from sore ga ai deshou (eps 3).
Even if you can sing them "properly", they are the type of songs that are probably more fun to sing if we just let go, the way Konata did.

For the type of songs like "sore ga ai deshou", singing it "properly" is probably most enjoyable.

Then again, with the mountain of theories already proposed, who knows which one is closest to the truth.:heh: Maybe they just want to keep it unpredictable!

Aside from that, the rest of the episode remains enjoyable to me.
The Konata fan, ps2 duel, and the Kagami homework counter-attack are the highlights for me.

[Vexx]

I'm kind of interested in hearing the song choices of the remaining girls. Before ep 3, I had this idea that out of all of them, it'd turn out that only Tsukasa could carry a tune. Oh well.... :)

(goes back to puddling through the manga, looking stuff up and scratching my head).

[Hagges01]

PaniPoni, Cromartie and "Good Job" scenes, that was soo good
and a Loli army...:heh:

nothing can surprise me now:D

[Telliamed]

Things I learned from this episode...


Always carry a newspaper when riding the train in Tokyo. Don't be that guy who doesn't know whether to ignore the schoolgirl or look away.

Konata has been in high school for ten years? Her father was going to buy her a Pippen or a 3D0.... But then they throw out PS2 which is an entirely different generation. Notice that there was no mention what she'd get for an "A".

Never underestimate an otaku's grasp of obscure trivia.

Indoor stadiums have ruined baseball. (I agree!)

"Moe" is a public service.

Minoru might be out of a job next week, after the last thing he said to Akira.


My favorite yet. Including anime references that even I know. PPD, and Wedding Peach... couldn't stop laughing after that because I saw it coming. And the "sausage and egg" pun was brilliant.

~meh~ on the karaoke, because it also sounds a bit like they ran it through the digital signal processor from hell. I think it was just a blatant obligatory self-reference, and setting up Kagami singing the next song.

I can't get enough of that pink bundle of manic loli evilness that is Akira.

[dahl_moon]

And the "sausage and egg" pun was brilliant.
Can you explain that part to me? Why did Konata say "all this talk about sausage and egg is making her hungry"?

My take on the ending Karaoke, I think the singing was off character, but give Hirano Aya some slack. It's hard enough to sing in-character; singing well in-character is exceedingly hard and I've never heard any seiyu pull this off (if the character talks and sounds like an anime character rather than a real person that is). And singing off key for every ending song is going to get stale.

In short, could've been better, but I'm satisfied.

[Demel]

Konata has been in high school for ten years? Her father was going to buy her a Pippen or a 3D0.... But then they throw out PS2 which is an entirely different generation. Notice that there was no mention what she'd get for an "A".


In the manga it was stated that getting into the school earned Konata a PS2 and a new com. Guess how hard she worked for that.

Akira is the cutest and most evil thing ever XD

[Telliamed]

Can you explain that part to me? Why did Konata say "all this talk about sausage and egg is making her hungry"?
I missed LevelE's notes and he's hidden them now until his sub is released. So I'll have to go with what LC has to say about it. (Yeah, I know I said I wasn't going to watch them. But 98MB is cheap and I'm impatient.)

The Japanese word for twin sounds like "sausage", And "tamago" (egg) is also used when describing twins. Or something like that. Someone who knows the language better can provide a more specific explanation.

And singing off key for every ending song is going to get stale.
I'd have been fine with it. Karaoke is supposed to sound horrible.

[kj1980]

Japanese word for twin sounds like "sausage", And "tamago" (egg) is also used when describing twins. Or something like that. Someone who knows the language better can provide a more specific explanation

By the word egg, they are talking about the word ovum.

[aorta]

Konata has been in high school for ten years? Her father was going to buy her a Pippen or a 3D0.... But then they throw out PS2 which is an entirely different generation. Notice that there was no mention what she'd get for an "A".



At the time of her entrance exams the PS2 was the best and the other two are just old and horrible. You can buy older game systems. The Pippin and 3DO are just 2 examples of obscure dead consoles, they could have easily used older systems (but most people would consisder even the Famicom to be better than those two).

[Klashikari]

Pretty much liked Konata&Kagami duo. (the harmony between them is just too good... konata giving punch lines for kagami wins)

the amount of puns, easter eggs etc is pretty large, but the pace is really fluent ^^

as for the ED, fankly, i disliked it for 2 reasons :
-just like vexx said, the fact Hirano-san blurt her "serious" voice out of the blue is something really weird, and doesn't really suit the scene.
-While i'm a big fan of her voice, i just thought that she doesn't fit the style of the song at all. (i didn't feel any smooth feeling and such).

Perhaps i'm too conservative, but i couldn't really appreciate the tunes she gave for "sore ga ai deshou". (and i don't think the "karaoke effect" would be the reason, it is the voice, nothing else)
and before you ask : i'm a big fan of the original OP.

[KeiKei-chan]

I know, rather unnecessary, but I love this OP:

Full Metal Panic? Fumoffu OP
0k2nSIkIu8g

Mikuni Shimokawa, Full PV here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtCdrYPLimQ)

I dare you not to loop this one :D .

Mikuni Shimokawa is one of my favourtie singer.

[aorta]

Can anyone explain the card Konata has? Ladybug #3 Punk Version.

[Proto]

Do you remember her saying that it was better to apply for not that popular gifts? That way you increased your winning chances.

[Ascaloth]

I'd be willing to bet its next episode. Then Lost My Music, Then Hare Hare Yukai, Then Bouken Deshou Deshou, Then the Kanon Theme, Then the Kanon ending, Then the Air ending, Then the Full Metal Panic Second Raid Opening, Then the last episode will probably advertise the Clannad Theme. I'm pretty sure they are done with the old themes from metal hero shows and are just going to advertise the older shows they worked on now. My gut tells me so.

Mind telling me if the Quiz and Puzzle Game is one of those arcade machines with limited questions, or Quiz and Puzzle Game about stuff she digs.

And wait.... since when is fanservice a Kyoto Animation trademark and since when do they really engage in it to a degree that makes them famous for it. I'd have to say they seem to be on the lower end of the fanservice stick when it comes to animation companies. That doesn't say it isn't probably going to probably make my day depending on what it is. Loli(ish?) fanservice Huzzah!

I'll bet a cookie against your call. If your prediction comes true, remind me to give it to you on this post. If it turns out false, you incur no penalties. A no-risk bet on your part, and a 100% bad bet with no returns on mine.

Care to take up the bet?

Partially credited actually. Let's not forget Gonzo's involvement along with Sunrise and....er Master of Entertaiment (actually let's forget that one). Yes even FMP Fummofu and Second Raid still had Gonzo staff in writing and directing postions, although not chief director. The first true series that can be fully credited to Kyoto Animation is Air.

Credited for the most part to KyoAni. And really, for the majority that is all that matters.


Now, back to Lucky Star. Konata X Kagami is pure win for me; I swear I'm watching Lucky Star to see them taking every opportunity to have a go at each other, for the most part. Kinda like the real-life jabfests that happens every now and then on this very board. I'm sure I don't have to say who our two Kona-Kaga representatives are. :D

Tsukasa is a pretty good foil too, whenever she appears. On the other hand, I don't really think too much of Miyuki and her gags; too diabetically moe even for me. Yuck. :eyespin:

Anyway, I'm surprised; Lucky Star is actually getting better for me. Now it certainly seems that I was a little hasty when I said I was dropping this; I think I'll keep it for now, since it looks like it'll serve as a good midweek filler for me. Still, my homebase on the AS boards still remains the Sola forums, for now. :D

Oh, and I'll throw this an....8. A fair enough score, IMHO. More KonaKaga, please! :D

[Deathkillz]

PaniPoni, Cromartie and "Good Job" scenes, that was soo good
and a Loli army...:heh:

nothing can surprise me now:D


you can never say this...with a series like this anything can happen to shock your socks off :D

[Kaioshin Sama]

I'll bet a cookie against your call. If your prediction comes true, remind me to give it to you on this post. If it turns out false, you incur no penalties other than making yourself look more foolish than you already are. A no-risk bet on your part, and a 100% bad bet with no returns on mine.

Well since I was only joking by responding to a guy's post about seeing Hare Hare Yukai as an ending I don't see how that's foolish. The only really foolish thing that has happened is that somebody took it seriously after like 3 days of everybody ignoring it as the joke it was.

The odd's of all or even 2 of those songs being used AND in that sequence are astronomically high. Note the fact that I said Gut tells me rather than anything like experience or an educated guess tells me. I'm referring specifically to a Stephen Colbert joke about not using your head to think things through and just going with the first thing that pops into your mind. So stop taking everything so seriously already.

[Ffenix Rising]

Oooh, Internet drama! Can I watch? Please, please can I?!?

Oh quick post about episode 3. One of the better ending "theme" so far, since Kagami commented how Konata can "sound mature" at any time; it's certainly a little joke about Aya's talent as a voice actor. =D

[Kaioshin Sama]

Oooh, Internet drama! Can I watch? Please, please can I?!?

Oh quick post about episode 3. One of the better ending "theme" so far, since Kagami commented how Konata can "sound mature" at any time; it's certainly a little joke about Aya's talent as a voice actor. =D

I would just ignore it. I'm in the process of taking care of things. I really want no more of this garbage anymore. It seems that everytime I try to square things though that something pops up in an attempt to ruin it. The thing that's different this time is that I really don't want to go back to arguing anymore at any cost. Like I've said my fight is long over and I'm just here to chill now.

[Broken_Angel]

I like it ^_^ it's cool

[TnAdct1]

-I have not watched PPD. Is it THAT good? I'm watching (waiting on subs...) Negima!? and the humor isn't that great. (That and MSN manga is soooo much better). If you like the referencial humor of Lucky Star (and don't mind shows that rely on "WTF humor"), then you'd probably enjoy PPD.

As for Negima!?, the problem there was that rather than focusing on the story, SHAFT put too much effort making the show another Pani Poni Dash (which it obviously isn't, as Negima isn't a "gag manga" title).

[Kaioshin Sama]

Well here we go:

Summer v. Winter clothes: I like how Tsukasa doesn't seem to realize it's time to switch over to summer clothing. I've pulled this boner before and ended up in sweltering heat with a sweater and jacket on. Also amusing was the fact that they didn't show below the bra-strap line of Kagami. Though honestly I would have to say that if I didn't know they were supposed to be in high, I would be saying its a bit early for Kagami to be wearing one.

Train Station: So twins are really quirky eh and apparently even though they share a lot in common, on needs something to make them the polar opposite of the other. I noticed during this sequence that Aya Hirano seemed to be speaking in her natural voice again for Konata (Something similar happened in an episode of Himawari for a deep voiced character), but went back to the regular Kona voice in the next scene. Also take note of the timeless art of seduction. That poor (or lucky?) man having to avert his eyes while she's got her shirt lifted up halfway fanning herself. What do you do in that situation, you can't exactly move on a crowded train. I wonder how often stuff like that really does happen on trains in Japan (I've heard my share of true stories about groping and illicit activity on trains).

School: UH OH! They are talking about Dragon Quest V. I haven't played the game, but the spells a clearly Healmore and Explodet that they are censoring. Speaking of which the trademark (BEEP) has showed up in this show now. Apparently you can't say Gundam or anything copyrighted by Square Enix anymore on television unless you secure the rights. In fact most of the references in this scene are censored quite a bit.

Back Home: So everything seems to revolve around games with Konata and that is how she manages to do well in school. It's a bribe to encourage her to do better. In case anybody is wondering how Konata beat Kagami at the quiz game. What the LC sub got wrong was that Kagami said "Don't tell me she memorized the pattern?" (they had answers instead of pattern). Basically if you play a quiz game enough, You will notice the answers will start to repeat themselves until you can buzz in your answer before the question is even finished typing on the screen. This was the theme of an episode of Yu Yu Hakusho that I recently saw. After that......SLUMBER PARTY! (a rather boring one unfortunately)

The Manga Cafe: Okay Japan really needs to work on its product placement. Something so blatant makes me have to take a point away from this episode. What a waste. Konata: "Comptiq's Refill Card Is On Sale Now" followed soon after by "Don't You Feel The Urge To Buy Related To A Particular Title (i.e Magazine title). Oh Please! This is one of the most thinly disguised product plugs by a company I've ever seen. Like I've said, the Japanese should learn a bit more tact when it comes to product placement (That goes double for you Sunrise!)

Eating: So Miyuki is the school idol apparently and people are trying to win her over (maniacs no less). This is followed up by explaining why (How the heck do you turn of a light switch by accident when going for a door. What's even funnier is that all of them have done it). Miyuki has to be one of the funnier Moe parodies of recent years.

Lucky Channel: Much funnier when Akira is in her happy mode (such as playing the guilt card on Brock and then sliding away as he move in closer). Then suddenly its the same old bi-polar joke (commenting about Miyuki) and then.... funny the second she switches back regarding the lolicon army. The picture and discussion of her overall was funnier than most of the Lucky Channel segments. Keep it about the show and it will be much more clever. Like a way to poke at the conventions the show has gone over as a way of winding down.

Ending: I'm not even going to comment on the absurdity of Konata suddenly having an adult voice. Ok I will I guess. They didn't even play it for laughs (they could have pointed out the impossibility of Konata suddenly being an uber adult-voiced singer, but they didn't), it was just..... kind of stupid. When I first heard about it I thought that they would have done something like finding out she was using a voice box or something to cheat and it would have been funny, but they didn't. They did the same thing in Nadesico, except at the end you find out that Ruri cheated by using Omoikane to process her voice, so it's made funny. Probably a single promo gimmick and that's really it, but it really ruined the spirit of the ending for me. Once again they could have done this so much better, sold the single and still made it clever. Gotta give a penalty for this one (-0.5). Aya get's an A, but Kyoto Animation get's a D- for the ending. So overall it's something like 7- 1.5=5.5 and I round up since I'm not in the mood for being overly harsh. 6 is my final score.

[Kaioshin Sama]

What the double posting F***. Okay my mistake.

[Manatsu]

Can anyone explain the card Konata has? Ladybug #3 Punk Version.

The card is a wedding invitation card from Kona-chan's cousin.

As for Kona-chan's comment, I found out thanks to the Chinese subs that she was actually saying てんとう虫のサンバ (romanized tentoumushi no samba, meaning Ladybug Samba). That is a classic Japanese song from the 70's usually sung in wedding receptions/dinners. The "punk version" is a reference to NANA in one of the lines spoken by Oosaki Nana.

Anyone wants to hear the song? I found a link (http://music.163888.net/6800519) on a Chinese forum, there's also a youtube clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-9cVlk5-x4) of a cover here.

[Vexx]

Well here we go:

Summer v. Winter clothes: I like how Tsukasa doesn't seem to realize it's time to switch over to summer clothing. I've pulled this boner before and ended up in sweltering heat with a sweater and jacket on. Also amusing was the fact that they didn't show below the bra-strap line of Kagami. Though honestly I would have to say that if I didn't know they were supposed to be in high, I would be saying its a bit early for Kagami to be wearing one.
Points to them for being implicit on Kagami's state of dress ... but thats something the manga does (and really, its far more exciting to imply than to be explicit for those interested in that aspect of the show :) ... Kagami is pert, not 'nayuki-jiggle' after all (puts helmet on for any brickbats thrown)).

Train Station: So twins are really quirky eh and apparently even though they share a lot in common, on needs something to make them the polar opposite of the other. I noticed during this sequence that Aya Hirano seemed to be speaking in her natural voice again for Konata (Something similar happened in an episode of Himawari for a deep voiced character), but went back to the regular Kona voice in the next scene. Also take note of the timeless art of seduction. That poor (or lucky?) man having to avert his eyes while she's got her shirt lifted up halfway fanning herself. What do you do in that situation, you can't exactly move on a crowded train. I wonder how often stuff like that really does happen on trains in Japan (I've heard my share of true stories about groping and illicit activity on trains).
I think Konata relayed virtually every twin myth that exists in japanese culture and science fiction <laugh>. Kona seems to modulate her voice depending on what character she's affecting (kind of like people that speak in movie quotes ... kind of a perverse version of that ST:TNG episode where Picard has to communicate with a race that speaks in metaphor and myth).
I don't know that Kona was being seductive on purpose :) but she's completely unconscious of her affect on anyone. Poor guy seemed more embarrassed than excited though. Someone further up said the moral of that sequence was always carry a newspaper to read. I ride enough light rail and busses that one just learns to defocus the eyes (though I did once point out discreetly to someone that their shirt had become unbuttoned using my best Texan "man-of-honor" voice). As far as train-groping in Japan, serious problem and pretty reflective of how in some ways the social context is very screwed up at present.
School: UH OH! They are talking about Dragon Quest V. I haven't played the game, but the spells a clearly Healmore and Explodet that they are censoring. Speaking of which the trademark (BEEP) has showed up in this show now. Apparently you can't say Gundam or anything copyrighted by Square Enix anymore on television unless you secure the rights. In fact most of the references in this scene are censored quite a bit.
I've never been able to figure out the method by which anime decides to mangle a popular brand name or not ("SOMY" anyone?). They probably want to refer to other properties without actually GIVING them free advertising. The BEEPs are really bizarre - I thought she was being profane at first.

Back Home: So everything seems to revolve around games with Konata and that is how she manages to do well in school. It's a bribe to encourage her to do better. In case anybody is wondering how Konata beat Kagami at the quiz game. What the LC sub got wrong was that Kagami said "Don't tell me she memorized the pattern?" (they had answers instead of pattern). Basically if you play a quiz game enough, You will notice the answers will start to repeat themselves until you can buzz in your answer before the question is even finished typing on the screen. This was the theme of an episode of Yu Yu Hakusho that I recently saw. After that......SLUMBER PARTY! (a rather boring one unfortunately)
In Trivial Pursuit Classic, when in doubt: "Kennedy" "The Beatles" "Happy Days" ... or some similar idiocy. Kona has parallels to me and probably and entire segment of geekdom that "cruised along" in school (last minute cram, etc) and spent our valuable time playing in esoteric hobbies that the large portion of the population bell curve didn't get or even know existed.


The Manga Cafe: Okay Japan really needs to work on its product placement. Something so blatant makes me have to take a point away from this episode. What a waste.Manga cafes (like our local bookstore/cafe combos) are pretty common, I need to relook at the episode to see if there was actually product placement or not, rather than just vague references.


Eating: So Miyuki is the school idol apparently and people are trying to win her over (maniacs no less). This is followed up by explaining why (How the heck do you turn of a light switch by accident when going for a door. What's even funnier is that all of them have done it). Miyuki has to be one of the funnier Moe parodies of recent years.Somehow it figures that she's much more adored than she has a clue about. She's pretty much dateless since she apparently leaves the males with their jaws unhinged. The light switch thing has to do with being trained from birth on conserving energy I guess. In my case, the action resides in such a primitive part of my brain next to where I automatically lock my front door even when stepping out to get the mail.

Lucky Channel: Much funnier when Akira is in her happy mode (such as playing the guilt card on Brock and then sliding away as he move in closer). Then suddenly its the same old bi-polar joke (commenting about Miyuki) and then.... funny the second she switches back regarding the lolicon army. The picture and discussion of her overall was funnier than most of the Lucky Channel segments. Keep it about the show and it will be much more clever. Like a way to poke at the conventions the show has gone over as a way of winding down.Her "fake-happy" is quite manic... but the joke is winding down and I really can't see it going for 20 more episodes without some substantial change.


Ending: I'm not even going to comment on the absurdity of Konata suddenly having an adult voice. Ok I will I guess. They didn't even play it for laughs (they could have pointed out the impossibility of Konata suddenly being an uber adult-voiced singer, but they didn't), it was just..... kind of stupid. When I first heard about it I thought that they would have done something like finding out she was using a voice box or something to cheat and it would have been funny, but they didn't. They did the same thing in Nadesico, except at the end you find out that Ruri cheated by using Omoikane to process her voice, so it's made funny. Probably a single promo gimmick and that's really it, but it really ruined the spirit of the ending for me. Once again they could have done this so much better, sold the single and still made it clever. Gotta give a penalty for this one (-0.5). Aya get's an A, but Kyoto Animation get's a D- for the ending. So overall it's something like 7- 1.5=5.5 and I round up since I'm not in the mood for being overly harsh. 6 is my final score.Already said my piece on the karaoke sequence (I really don't call that part an ED, its part of the show). Its good that they had Kagami poke holes at her doing that though ("she's just mimicking!"). As much as I like Hirano's singing it was a minus from my opinion on show continuity.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Points to them for being implicit on Kagami's state of dress ... but thats something the manga does (and really, its far more exciting to imply than to be explicit for those interested in that aspect of the show :) ... Kagami is pert, not 'nayuki-jiggle' after all (puts helmet on for any brickbats thrown)).

Nayuki-Jiggle.... Huh? Oh and I'm not sure what the term "Pert" means?

[CrowKenobi]

Nayuki-Jiggle.... Huh? Oh and I'm not sure what the term "Pert" means?:heh:

Let me help: Nayuki-Jiggle = Ascaloth's old Nayuki avatar

Pert = Not-balloon-sized-that-bounces-all-over-the-place. :D

That help? ;)

:cool:

[Vexx]

Thank you :)

Kanon's Nayuki had that "bra barely contains the wonders within" sort of post-torso movement that hits the primal part of the male brain.

Kagami is not slacking in that department but they're the sort that can support their own weight and don't sag.

There.. now I've doomed myself in so many ways....

From the dictionary: pert ---
Etymology: Middle English, evident, attractive, saucy, short for apert evident, from Anglo-French, from Latin apertus open, from past participle of aperire to open
1 a : saucily free and forward : flippantly cocky and assured b : being trim and chic : JAUNTY (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/jaunty) <a pert little hat> c : piquantly stimulating <is a pert notion>

[Kaioshin Sama]

:heh:

Let me help: Nayuki-Jiggle = Ascaloth's old Nayuki avatar

Oh that thing. I remember being a bit spooked by that. It's up to others though to figure out what I mean by "spooked" though. I'm using it as a catch-all for many different thoughts.

Hey Vexx, are you scared of Nayuki fans doing something now that you've gone and spoiled the purity of the character a bit?

[Samatarou]

The Japanese word for twin sounds like "sausage" Rather surprisingly, the words are in fact identical once you discount the different ways of writing long vowels in katakana v. hiragana: "souseiji" (ソーセージ and そうせいじ)

Train Station: noticed during this sequence that Aya Hirano seemed to be speaking in her natural voice again for Konata I don't think so, in interviews that I've heard she's incredibly soft spoken, in comparison her Konata sounds rather "cartoony" in the above scene. I can't think of any anime examples offhand where her voice sounds as soft as it does in real life, except perhaps her Mei in Manabi Straight, she usually adds an edge to it in her anime characters.

OK I have a question of my own, in the train station, in the LC sub they talk about "enlisted prizes" and "enlistment cards", I've never heard these terms before, but they seem to be talking about magazine giveaways where you send in a coupon and the first few out of the hat get the items. I couldn't make out the Japanese term being used, I wondered are the phrases LC used correct or is this some awkward translation?

[Vexx]

They jabber so fast I can't make it out... but the context sounds like they're referring to what we'd call "promotional prizes" and "entry cards".

As for "pert" and "jiggle" --- mostly it was the fact I'm caught actually paying attention to stuff like that. One can be pure and jiggle after all .... (personally I prefer pert :) ).

In some ways, Aya (and many other VAs) are kind of like Mel Blanc in that you're not quite sure they HAVE a 'daily natural voice' ... they always seem to be 'doing' a voice, its just part of their communication toolset like slang or professional-speak.

[Kaioshin Sama]

They jabber so fast I can't make it out... but the context sounds like they're referring to what we'd call "promotional prizes" and "entry cards".

As for "pert" and "jiggle" --- mostly it was the fact I'm caught actually paying attention to stuff like that. One can be pure and jiggle after all .... (personally I prefer pert :) ).

In some ways, Aya (and many other VAs) are kind of like Mel Blanc in that you're not quite sure they HAVE a 'daily natural voice' ... they always seem to be 'doing' a voice, its just part of their communication toolset like slang or professional-speak.

Mel Blanc was also a several pack a day smoker though, so even his natural voice changed drastically over short periods of time. More often than not he had one with him while he recording. Billy West and Dan Castellaneta are two of my favourites to bring up in the context of "What do they actually sound like". I remember an interview where Billy West just screwed with the guy the whole time by changing voice every minute or so. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsW_wBRv1qI) Now take that and look at any other interview of him and his "normal voice" is diiferent every time. It's especially apparent in this one though, because it just keeps changing little by little each time he answers a question.

[Vexx]

I vaguely remember an odd little "Night Gallery"(?) episode where Rich Little played a "guy with a thousand voices" on a date(?). She finally teased out of him his "core personality and voice" ... which turned out to be a very small child that never got to mature because of all the other "people" he spent time being. It was a fairly odd little story, typical Twilight Zone / Night Gallery stuff (not applicable here but ya know how free association of memory goes...).

[Kaoru Chujo]

The Rich Little and Mel Blanc stories were interesting.

As for Hirano Aya, I listen to her as much as I can and even then I don't know what her "real" voice sounds like. In her interview last night on NHK, she started off in a high burikko voice with every possible bit of Japanese politeness, then gradually settled over the hour into something slightly lower than that but higher than Haruhi. But she maintained what always seems to me like an artificial manner, but may just be normal Japanese courtesy. I wouldn't describe her voice as "soft" so much as high and her manner as controlled.

That was a great interview, by the way, even though she was clearly nervous and impressed with being on an NHK channel. They had a segment in which she did a pretend recording session for the part of SHnY where she drags Kyon up to the stairwell and starts forming the SOS-Dan. It was particularly interesting to see how she fell from the interview politeness into a concentrated professional manner, how she did facial expressions to go with the voice, and how she made a point of doing the heavy breathing for running up and down stairs.

I think it was on the interview last year where she first wowed them with being able to drop into the low register so easily that she said her normal voice was the high one, but I have some doubt. I think Vexx is right that such voice people may never really have a "normal" voice to go back to.

I didn't notice any change in her voice on the station platform, Kaioshin, but I'll go back and take a listen. I guess the shift in her voice at the end was "absurd," but I have to say that (a) my enjoyment of the singing made up for it, and (b) I'm a big fan of absurdity, in any case. For me, it was a trick that worked.

[Village Idiot]

Finally, someone questions the nothing-but-murder-cases in Detective Conan.

[Vexx]

Just in case someone blinked... a.f.k. rendition of ep 3 has been released.

[Level E]

I was wondering;
why are they talking about smells everytime when the screen switches in while they are talking each other. :confused: :) :heh:

Because くさい doesn't have to refer to smell.
Kagami: Yah, that stunk (eg suck, foul oder, lame, corny, etc).
It's a slang and easy to apply to any topic.

Finally, someone questions the nothing-but-murder-cases in Detective Conan.

They take a jab at that themselves. There was at least two times where Detective Mouri was called a Shinigami by Megure since whenever there was a murder, he was always there. :heh:

[Sprint]

Sure, translation notes should be avoided where possible, but...
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/892/nosausageva0.jpgI groaned.

[Nightengale]

Finally, someone questions the nothing-but-murder-cases in Detective Conan.

It's been poked on repeatedly in Conan itself as said. The inspectors all said that it's either Megure saying Mouri brings bad luck or Conan is cursed by the dimwitted inspector, one way or the other. Well, the times where there weren't murder cases...the inspectors weren't there, most of the time.

I'd say Kindaichi is a better questioning, since most of Kindaichi cases involve more than one murder at one time, even if 1/5th of the murders he's involved was through "invitation" to the scene of preplanned murder.

[Samatarou]

Sure, translation notes should be avoided where possible, but...
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/892/nosausageva0.jpgI groaned.
Next time I visit afk's website I'll be sure to set my browser to reject sausages.

[Vexx]

Sure, translation notes should be avoided where possible, but...
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/892/nosausageva0.jpgI groaned.

Um... ouch... thats worth a 3v2 re-release all by itself it makes so little sense without a footnote.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Sure, translation notes should be avoided where possible, but...
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/892/nosausageva0.jpgI groaned.

That sounds like the kind of concotion I would whip up for breakfast. I just eat whatever is available most of the time since my parents never seem to have any food in the house.

[Diedrupo]

the dragon quest reference was awesome :)

School: UH OH! They are talking about Dragon Quest V. I haven't played the game, but the spells a clearly Healmore and Explodet that they are censoring. Speaking of which the trademark (BEEP) has showed up in this show now. Apparently you can't say Gundam or anything copyrighted by Square Enix anymore on television unless you secure the rights. In fact most of the references in this scene are censored quite a bit.

Behoimi and that other spell (can't recall it right now) are in every DQ game, not just V. Though it is odd that they were censored given that almost every japanese person knows the basic DQ spells. I've heard that school kids back in the 90s would even say 'hoimi' instead of the normal japanese words for healing or curing something.

[Skane]

The following is based on [a.f.k.]'s fansub.

Random Thoughts on Ep03:
---- ----

I am in admiration of Stratos' ability to convey Japanese cultural context into western-style humour. While some of the jokes have been "radically" altered in meaning, taking the subtitles alone, the punchline is still effective (most of the time). Problems arise however, when I am (ironically) clueless about the context he decided to use instead (since I am quite weak on "American Culture").
.
His usage of one-egg, two-egg is actually an effective way to substitute for the identical/fraternal twins issue (I personally thought it was inspired), since it avoids the need for a footnote-layover. It allowed him to set up for the "egg" joke without distracting the viewer with 3rd-party footnotes.

Too bad he couldn't find a way to associate the black and white soul part into something. I thought of black and white soles (the fish), but that pun might seem a bit too lame. :heh:
.
Konata: "Tsukasa is laid-back... but Kagami is pretty psycho."
Did she really say that? :heh: The sudden appearance of the word, "psycho", caught me by surprise. :heh: It has never occured to me to use that word to describe Kagami. :p
.
Reading the back and forth banter between Kagami and Konata was absolute bliss. They really are like an old married couple, where Kagami is the grumpy grandpa while Konata is the easy-going grandma. :D
.
Speaking of which, I kept thinking of that "Brokeback Mountain" line...
Kagami: "I can't quit you!"
:heh:
I think this might be the second time only that I am supporting a yuri-pairing. :heh:
.
Some of the better moments were when Konata questioned whether Kagami would have anyone to show off her swimsuit to. When Kagami made Konata eat her words on the issue of working for oneself. The "manliness" of Kagami in a ponytail. Etc...
.
Somebody please enlighten me on the joke behind the "Wards Against Rage". I was totally lost on the meaning and explanation behind it. Pregnancy? Traffic Accident? Huh?
.
Funny how they didn't just cameo the "Pani Poni Dash!" characters, but included the random scribblings on the blackboard as well. :p
.
Chair shuffling on Lucky Channel was win.
.
I am in the camp that didn't like Konata shifting to an utterly different voice for the Karaoke. It was just too drastic a change.

The absolute hilarity of the Kagami & Konata duo ensures an 08/10 for this episode.

Cheers.

[052569]

It's hard enough to sing in-character; singing well in-character is exceedingly hard and I've never heard any seiyu pull this off (if the character talks and sounds like an anime character rather than a real person that is).
Hayashibara Megumi usually does a pretty good job, IMHO. A good example would be from Slayers (I forgot which one), in one episode Lina sang a duet with Amelia. Her voice then is quite distinct from her normal singing voice--compare to the OP / ED, for instance.

Come to think of it, she hasn't had any significant roles for quite some time; did she retire or something?

Sakamoto Maaya's also pretty good, though it's more like the characters she plays sound like her, instead of the other way around.

Anyway, back to Lucky Star. Many have compared it to Azumanga Daioh, and that's what I thought too when I first start watching. But 3 episodes in now, I feel they're actually quite different. Azumanga would be more like Lucky Star if Osaka's the lead. Also, Azumanga's has a more ensemble cast, though maybe Lucky Star will move in that direction in future episodes as well.

I wish they would slow down a bit, too. The references and jokes are too dense. I had a hard time following the dialog, and had to re-watch parts several times--especially in ep. 3--and I still don't get everything...

...or perhaps I've just been rusty as I've been anime-free a few months now. :heh:

[nadare]

I think I prefer LC's sub over a.f.k for this episode.

Hayashibara Megumi still has some roles on major anime(when I mean major I meant anime which has more than 100 episodes)... such as Haibara Ai(Detective Conan), Musashi/Jessie(Pokemon)

[Sheba]

* Reading the back and forth banter between Kagami and Konata was absolute bliss. They really are like an old married couple, where Kagami is the grumpy grandpa while Konata is the easy-going grandma.


Damn you Skane, you made me want to watch my Friends episodes again for the Chandler & Joey couple dynamic and homosexual understones.

[052569]

Finally, someone questions the nothing-but-murder-cases in Detective Conan.
Ooh, I just re-watched that part, and Konata was saying that following suspects is "thrill[ing] and suspense[ful]." I wonder if that's a reference to Conan's OP, Koi wa Thrill Shock Suspense (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwu2ennCWmQ).

Or going into darker territory, a reference to Illusion (http://www.illusion.jp/)'s Biko series...

[Ascaloth]

:heh:

Let me help: Nayuki-Jiggle = Ascaloth's old Nayuki avatar

Pert = Not-balloon-sized-that-bounces-all-over-the-place. :D

That help? ;)

:cool:

...why is everybody using me as an example lately? :heh:

Hey Vexx, are you scared of Nayuki fans doing something now that you've gone and spoiled the purity of the character a bit?

*cough* Pure? :eyespin:

Okay, I jest, but considering the kind of source material she originated from.....:D

By the way, about that last jab at you. I'll admit I went a little far there. These kinds of things happen when I'm no longer sure whether you're joking or serious. :heh:

[kj1980]

Come to think of it, she hasn't had any significant roles for quite some time; did she retire or something?

Answer: She turned 40 last month, she married and is now a mother of a child, and has a role in Detective Conan as Haibara Ai.

Though it is odd that they were censored given that almost every japanese person knows the basic DQ spells.

Some sponsors are uptight about these things and it is my assumption that one of the sponsors (Kadokawa) wasn't too impressed on quoting spells from one of their rivals (Square/Enix). Then again, what is allowable and what isn't is basically up to who is providing the cash.


As for this:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/892/nosausageva0.jpg

I don't get it. There wasn't even a single reference to a black or white cookie in that scene.

[Sorrow-K]

Could people stop perpetuating the myth that anyone other than Kyoto Animation, WOWOW, Kadokawa Shoten and a few other small name companies were involved in the production of FMP?Fumoffo and FMP!TSR. If you need proof that the production team between the first series and the two others are almost completely different, just compare and contrast the lists of names involved on ANN's entries for those series, particularly those involved in the creative process like director and script writers. Hell, Gatoh himself only had minor involvement in the creative process of the first series. And enough with the "Kyoto Animation didn't write FMP, therefore it isn't their series" crap. Kyoto Animation didn't write any of the original works on which their television series are based... they're all adaptations of novels and visual novels, with the exception of Lucky Star, which is based on a manga. The point is, FMP?F and FMP!TSR are just as much as much KyoAni productions as Haruhi and Kanon, and they're damn good ones as well, particularly TSR, which is their second best work to date, IMO. It's annoying to think that credit isn't going where credit is due.

Anyway, on topic. Decent ep, but I didn't think it was as funny as the last two. The first half in particular was a bit dry, I thought. Second half was slightly funnier, particular Konata's almost-subtle backhand of Tsukasa and the stuff relating to Miyuki (and her attractive moe-ness). But, overall, I think we've already seen better from this series.

ED song was good. Been a while since I heard that song.

[GriS]

The ignorance on reference to Cromartie High School (http://anidb.info/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=1099), just before pani poni dash, is pretty much obvious in this thread :( I always loved it for its puns but I suppose all-boys series is a turn-off. Anyhow, Lucky Star Dash got me laughing along after unexpected cromartie show. :heh:

As for the rest, most are typically Konata x Kagami talks. Enjoyable but at some part it's getting stale.

Oh, how I remembered my habit of turning off the light even though my brother is reading inside the room :uhoh: I suppose it happens to majority of people before? Konata is an exception, probably because she is always the last one to leave? :rolleyes:

[arkon]

Sure, translation notes should be avoided where possible, but...
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/892/nosausageva0.jpgI groaned.

I don't know... I got it because of the usage of one-egg and two-egg twins in the subs so I didn't need a note to help me "get" that line. I'm still puzzled by the black and white cookies bit though... perhaps a misheard line or something?

[MakubeX2]

Some sponsors are uptight about these things and it is my assumption that one of the sponsors (Kadokawa) wasn't too impressed on quoting spells from one of their rivals (Square/Enix). Then again, what is allowable and what isn't is basically up to who is providing the cash.

So I guess the part in the manga where Konata and her Dad discussing about Gundams and the numerous sequels might not be animated ? Pity, that was one of my favourite joke in the series.

[GriS]

I don't know... I got it because of the usage of one-egg and two-egg twins in the subs so I didn't need a note to help me "get" that line. I'm still puzzled by the black and white cookies bit though... perhaps a misheard line or something?

same here, Sprint is probably referring to black and white cookies as broken pun. Perhaps, someone here can help to clear the confusion as I also watch away from keyboard subs :)

[Kaioshin Sama]

Could people stop perpetuating the myth that anyone other than Kyoto Animation, WOWOW, Kadokawa Shoten and a few other small name companies were involved in the production of FMP?Fumoffo and FMP!TSR. If you need proof that the production team between the first series and the two others are almost completely different, just compare and contrast the lists of names involved on ANN's entries for those series, particularly those involved in the creative process like director and script writers. Hell, Gatoh himself only had minor involvement in the creative process of the first series. And enough with the "Kyoto Animation didn't write FMP, therefore it isn't their series" crap. Kyoto Animation didn't write any of the original works on which their television series are based... they're all adaptations of novels and visual novels, with the exception of Lucky Star, which is based on a manga. The point is, FMP?F and FMP!TSR are just as much as much KyoAni productions as Haruhi and Kanon, and they're damn good ones as well, particularly TSR, which is their second best work to date, IMO. It's annoying to think that credit isn't going where credit is due.

Anyway, on topic. Decent ep, but I didn't think it was as funny as the last two. The first half in particular was a bit dry, I thought. Second half was slightly funnier, particular Konata's almost-subtle backhand of Tsukasa and the stuff relating to Miyuki (and her attractive moe-ness). But, overall, I think we've already seen better from this series.

ED song was good. Been a while since I heard that song.

There were some names that were the same from all three series. Some weren't from Kyoto Animation or Gonzo, and I did compare and contrast the names for like 3 hours to find this out. However, I agree with your idea that it was Kyoto Animation primarily, Kadowaka, Wowow and some other companies who loaned out staff. Credit should be given to all of them.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

There were some names that were the same from all three series. Some weren't from Kyoto Animation or Gonzo, and I did compare and contrast the names for like 3 hours to find this out. However, I agree with your idea that it was Kyoto Animation primarily, Kadowaka, Wowow and some other companies who loaned out staff. Credit should be given to all of them.

No, you weren't. You were giving credit to everyone but KyoAni.

Claiming Air being the first KyoAni work is not giving them credit for Fomoffu. Even more strangely, the same reason you reject Fomoffu could also be applied to Air, so you are contradicting yourself.

Enough is enough. Please look up Kadokawa and Wowow and find out what they really do for a living.

Wowow is a PAY-TV STATION. Kadokawa is a PUBLISHISHING COMPANY*. How could they loan staff to make an anime?:twitch:

One offers funding/airspace, the other offers the franchise. KyoAni supplies the animation.

You once commented that I always have my thinking cap on; Perhaps there is a valid reason I am disagreeing with you?:heh:

*Kadokawa Pictures exist, but you can easily tell the Fomoffu credits was concerning Kadokawa Publishing rather than anything to do with Gamera the giant turtle.

[Kinny Riddle]

Konata has been in high school for ten years? Her father was going to buy her a Pippen or a 3D0.... But then they throw out PS2 which is an entirely different generation. Notice that there was no mention what she'd get for an "A".


Mr Izumi probably had a bishoujo game/visual novel in mind if his daughter ever gets an "A".

Ooh, I just re-watched that part, and Konata was saying that following suspects is "thrill[ing] and suspense[ful]." I wonder if that's a reference to Conan's OP, Koi wa Thrill Shock Suspense (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwu2ennCWmQ).

Or going into darker territory, a reference to Illusion (http://www.illusion.jp/)'s Biko series...

I must confess I was thinking of Biko as well when I heard Konata mentioned that. I still remember how frustratingly difficult that game can be, and I'm not just talking about trying to get to the "fun" parts, if you get what I mean.

(Speaking of which, that software company you've mentioned is gonna have a very awesome 3D game next month, erm, I think I'll stop here, as this IS a family forum, after all. :D )

Once again, the running joke of famous detectives always running into murder cases. Look no further at that other infamous series Kyo-Ani adapted last year for another mention of that joke.

http://www.baka-tsuki.net/project/index.php?title=Suzumiya_Haruhi:Volume3_Lone_Islan d_Syndrome

"Think about those 'Master Detectives'. Normally, those with normal lives rarely get involved in inexplicable murder cases."

"Makes sense."

"Yet why is it that these novel detectives happen to get involved in these puzzling cases one after another? Do you know the reason?"

"Because if they didn't, there would be no story to write."

"Exactly, your answer is absolutely correct. These things only happen in the fictional world of novels. Yet to say such realistic things would just take the fun out of it"

Once again, Akira-sama is something to behold of, she completely redefines the meaning of the term "loli", or "angry smoking loli", LOL. Simply my favourite segment of the show.

[Samatarou]

The following is based on [a.f.k.]'s fansub.

I am in admiration of Stratos' ability to convey Japanese cultural context into western-style humour. While some of the jokes have been "radically" altered in meaning, taking the subtitles alone, the punchline is still effective (most of the time). Problems arise however, when I am (ironically) clueless about the context he decided to use instead (since I am quite weak on "American Culture").
This is a problem I often have—sometimes I can only understand subs by listening to the original Japanese! Localisation is bad when you have an international audience.

His usage of one-egg, two-egg is actually an effective way to substitute for the identical/fraternal twins issue (I personally thought it was inspired), since it avoids the need for a footnote-layover.
I disagree here since this is not a translation issue, it's an issue of whether people understand their own language, ie. the English terms "fraternal twins" and "identical twins". In general I am against including footnotes to explain the English terms, recent examples which bug me including LC explaining what a "pleated skirt" is (as if any anime fan wouldn't know that, given the ubiquity of girls in school uniforms!), and Doremi explaining what "eaves" are in Sola. (OTOH, major kudos to Doremi for subbing the audio drama at all!) If people don't know these terms, an English dictionary is only a couple of clicks away. Returning to the twins thing, it would suffice to use the commonplace term "non-identical twins" if "fraternal twins" is felt too obscure a term.


Did she really say that? :heh: The sudden appearance of the word, "psycho", caught me by surprise. :heh: It has never occured to me to use that word to describe Kagami.
I can't quite make out what she actually says, my best wild guess is something like "kyouaku" (villainous, fiendish). LC go with "tomboy", JEEB say "violent".

Somebody please enlighten me on the joke behind the "Wards Against Rage". I was totally lost on the meaning and explanation behind it. Pregnancy? Traffic Accident? Huh?
Sounds like another localisation issue. The terms Kagami actually mixed up when talking about charms were

厄除け [やくよけ] (yakuyoke): (n) warding off evil
自棄糞 [やけくそ] (yakekuso): (adj-na,n) desperation

LC: "speaking of which, we also have self-despair charm... oops I meant protection charm"
JEEB: "But to say, we have a 'burnt shit' amulet... I mean protecting amulet in here."

I have to say speedsubber LC are looking better and better the more I look at the competition...

One thing that neither LC nor JEEB translate is bushi (warrior), in reference to Kagami in a ponytail—is this a term I should have known? I don’t generally watch samurai type anime, maybe my otakuness needs topping up in this area.

[arkon]

same here, Sprint is probably referring to black and white cookies as broken pun. Perhaps, someone here can help to clear the confusion as I also watch away from keyboard subs :)

Ah right... gotcha. That would make sense given Sprint's post. Obviously I'm not thinking straight at the moment.

[Samatarou]

Many have compared it to Azumanga Daioh, and that's what I thought too when I first start watching. But 3 episodes in now, I feel they're actually quite different. Azumanga would be more like Lucky Star if Osaka's the lead.
For me, Osaka is the lead character of Azumanga. She's certainly the soul of the series anyhow. I think the biggest difference which makes Lucky Star more difficult to watch is that, coming from a games magazine, there are a lot of cultural references to games and anime etc. which I'm not familiar with, whereas Azumanga sticks almost entirely to universally understood experiences of daily life. That and the fact that Azumanga relies much less on wordplay (for which you need to understand the Japanese) and more on visual gags and situation comedy.
As for Osaka-ness, personally I think of Tsukasa as being the Osaka since she spends so much time asleep or being generally dopey. She does lack Osaka's weirdness though.

[Skane]

~ I disagree here since this is not a translation issue, it's an issue of whether people understand their own language, ie. the English terms "fraternal twins" and "identical twins". In general I am against including footnotes to explain the English terms, recent examples which bug me including LC explaining what a "pleated skirt" is (as if any anime fan wouldn't know that, given the ubiquity of girls in school uniforms!), and Doremi explaining what "eaves" are in Sola. (OTOH, major kudos to Doremi for subbing the audio drama at all!) If people don't know these terms, an English dictionary is only a couple of clicks away. Returning to the twins thing, it would suffice to use the commonplace term "non-identical twins" if "fraternal twins" is felt too obscure a term. ~
? It's nothing about the obscurity of the words "identical" and "fraternal". The problem here is that there is a Japanese pun on how the Japanese word for "egg" is similar to the Japanese word for "twins".

Therefore, short of NOT translating the word and putting up a footnote, the only other way is to rework some of the dialogue in order to convey a similar meaning.

Stratos method of substituting "identical/fraternal" with "one-egg/two-egg" is inspired because he not only translated the language accurately, he KEPT the wordplay intact (although in a different way). Something no amount of footnotes can achieve if you insist on keeping the Japanese pun.

The "Black & White cookies" references to the early conversation on their "Black & White souls". Admittedly, this one is weaker.

Cheers.

[Kaioshin Sama]

No, you weren't. You were giving credit to everyone but KyoAni.

Claiming Air being the first KyoAni work is not giving them credit for Fomoffu. Even more strangely, the same reason you reject Fomoffu could also be applied to Air, so you are contradicting yourself.

Enough is enough. Please look up Kadokawa and Wowow and find out what they really do for a living.

Wowow is a PAY-TV STATION. Kadokawa is a PUBLISHISHING COMPANY*. How could they loan staff to make an anime?:twitch:

One offers funding/airspace, the other offers the franchise. KyoAni supplies the animation.

You once commented that I always have my thinking cap on; Perhaps there is a valid reason I am disagreeing with you?:heh:

*Kadokawa Pictures exist, but you can easily tell the Fomoffu credits was concerning Kadokawa Publishing rather than anything to do with Gamera the giant turtle.

Arguments are stronger when you captalize and bolden things that people already know in an attempt to make the other person arguing look like an idiot. I don't think I'll ever be able to explain that by loaned out from other companies I mean Gonzo, Sunrise and M.O.E folk worked on scripting, storyboarding and music alongside Kyoto Animation, no matter how many times I try to clarify. People keep twisting everything I say (hopefully not on purpose) to imply that I think Wowow is not a satellite company, but a studio and that I somehow think Kadowaka isn't a magazine publisher but a studio. I never intended to give zero credit to Kyoto Animation, but only to say they didn't have majority in the scripting and music department. People are just once again twisting my words to turn me into one of those Anti-Kyoto Animation Crusader's. You know what we call that, the Strawman Argument (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman_argument). It's far easier to argue against someones points if you make it look they are out to destroy one of your favourite companies. You can destroy their credibility among other fans of the company if you can do that.

Basically until somebody can stop twisting my words, this argument is futile. If this is strictly about animation production however, I think it is obvious who did that for Fumoffu and Second Raid. I think I can agree to disagree with everyone else on Overall Production being singlehandedly done by Kyoto Animation. I'm not some one-sided individual like a lot of people out there who see's everything in terms of black and white like some people seem to think. Once again now, I didn't bring this up, I just answered to Sorrow-Kun's argument, which I won't entirely dispute except on a few grounds.


Hayashibara Megumi usually does a pretty good job, IMHO. A good example would be from Slayers (I forgot which one), in one episode Lina sang a duet with Amelia. Her voice then is quite distinct from her normal singing voice--compare to the OP / ED, for instance.

I remember that one, it was a magical girl dance in order to summon some sort of weapon that ultimately proved to be useless. Lina could barely bring herself to sing such a sugary song. I think it was called Otome No Inori.

[Blue Reverie]

Black and White cookies made me think of Oreos, but I'm not sure if they have those in Japan.

[Samatarou]

? It's nothing about the obscurity of the words "identical" and "fraternal". The problem here is that there is a Japanese pun on how the Japanese word for "egg" is similar to the Japanese word for "twins".
I think you've got that mixed up, the pun is that "sausage" is a homophone of "twins" in Japanese, hence Konata's "all this talk of sausage and eggs is making me hungry".

The "Black & White cookies" references to the early conversation on their "Black & White souls". Admittedly, this one is weaker.
"Black & White cookies" is the substitution that afk have made for the sausage reference, which has become such a sauce of controversy on this thread.

I've just rewatched that scene, and it seems to me now that Konachan's joke might not be a reference to eggs as in ovum, since I don't hear them discussing eggs explicitly at all (though I may be wrong), rather it sounds more like Konachan is making a play on heart/soul/egg: if I hear her right she refers to their hearts/souls (kokoro), and then in the next sentence switches to using "tama" which can mean either "egg" or "soul".

If this is the case then afk's attempt to turn mention of black/white hearts into black/white cookies becomes more understandable, and in fact we end up with a double transposition:

original: twins=sausages; souls=eggs
afk: twins (people from eggs)=eggs; souls=cookies

The problem is that the souls=cookies bit has left everyone scratching their heads. (I should add the caveat that I haven't seen the afk version, I am going from the screenshots of the dialogue and what other people have said.)

[Skane]

I think you've got that mixed up, the pun is that "sausage" is a homophone of "twins" in Japanese, hence Konata's "all this talk of sausage and eggs is making me hungry". ~
I was going by this post (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=919632&postcount=70) which was posted earlier in this thread.

Natch.

[aorta]

In general I am against including footnotes to explain the English terms, recent examples which bug me including LC explaining what a "pleated skirt" is (as if any anime fan wouldn't know that, given the ubiquity of girls in school uniforms!), and Doremi explaining what "eaves" are in Sola. (OTOH, major kudos to Doremi for subbing the audio drama at all!) If people don't know these terms, an English dictionary is only a couple of clicks away.


Yeah they didn't need to explain June Brides either because it is an English term also. And the fact that Miyuki goes into extreme detail about it later makes the explanation unnecessary.

But then again it's a sub that came out really quick, so I can't really complain.

[errorrrr]

I think you've got that mixed up, the pun is that "sausage" is a homophone of "twins" in Japanese, hence Konata's "all this talk of sausage and eggs is making me hungry".


"Black & White cookies" is the substitution that afk have made for the sausage reference, which has become such a sauce of controversy on this thread.

I've just rewatched that scene, and it seems to me now that Konachan's joke might not be a reference to eggs as in ovum, since I don't hear them discussing eggs explicitly at all (though I may be wrong), rather it sounds more like Konachan is making a play on heart/soul/egg: if I hear her right she refers to their hearts/souls (kokoro), and then in the next sentence switches to using "tama" which can mean either "egg" or "soul".

If this is the case then afk's attempt to turn mention of black/white hearts into black/white cookies becomes more understandable, and in fact we end up with a double transposition:

original: twins=sausages; souls=eggs
afk: twins (people from eggs)=eggs; souls=cookies

The problem is that the souls=cookies bit has left everyone scratching their heads. (I should add the caveat that I haven't seen the afk version, I am going from the screen shots of the dialogs and what other people have said.)

For the sausage and egg. Konata does in fact say sausage and egg in the anime. As for what she is referring to, the egg is indeed a reference to the ovum because its a homophone in Japanese, and sausage is indeed a reference to twin by the same principle.

However, Konata DOES NOT mentions anywhere in the dialogs to OVUM specifically, but talking about the difference in the fertilization of the ovum that leads to the difference of identical/fraternal twin connects KONATA's thinking with the food egg directly.

My interpretation here is that it shows Konata's simple mindness, and if you note the next line in the dialog, kagami does indeed says nobody was even talking about those things that Konata has mentioned. It shows Konata's randomness and spontaneous personality.

- note from LC translator :x

Stratos method of substituting "identical/fraternal" with "one-egg/two-egg" is inspired because he not only translated the language accurately, he KEPT the wordplay intact (although in a different way). Something no amount of footnotes can achieve if you insist on keeping the Japanese pun.

I don't know if I understood what that substitution meant... In my opinion, the original intention of KyoAni was just to show how random Konata was... Because Konata could connect such remote thoughts of egg with the discussion of twins... Also, I don't think this even qualifies for a Japanese pun...

What this basically is like when you talking with your friends about like potato, and you suddenly say: "Damn I want some fries from McDonald..." lol... that's just my opinion, don't read too deep into this >_<

As for the notes explaining english terms... English isn't my first language, so my knowledge of English is also limited, so I assumed some of the terms needed explanation, but seeing the notes explaining English terms seem to be unnecssary, I'll omit it from now on.

As for my opinion on translation, my philosophy has always been translating the dialog in a fashion that resembles the original content as much as possible while making foreign audience understand the dialog within the Japanese cultural/social context... so therefore I don't like make-up/replace any dialog in order to make the translation "flow" in the western language... This is also due to my lack of western cultural/social references since I wasn't born in the states :3

[Kaoru Chujo]

fraternal twins = niransei souseiji 二卵性双生児 ("two-egg twins")
identical twins = ichiransei souseiji 一卵性双生児 ("one-egg twins")

These are the words Kagami uses.

I think "sausage" (souseiji) and "egg" both come from the talk about twins.

[Level E]

To clear things up:

二卵性双生児 (にらんせい　そうせいじ)　Niransei Souseiji = Biovular Twin-birth (literal)

一卵性双生児 (いちらんせい　そうせいじ) Ichiransei Souseiji = Monovular Twin-birth (literal)

Monovular Twins generally produces identical twins.
Biovular Twins generally are fraternal twins.
Generally the above is true, there are rare exceptions.

But in Japan, in layman terms, it is accepted that Niransei = fraternal, and Ichiransei = identical, even tho scientifically it's really not.

Waaaaay out of the scope of the anime and that wasn't what they were talking about.

Anywho, in both Niran/ichiransei the kanji for ran is tamago (卵) which is egg.
Souseiji (Twin-birth / そうせいじ) is spell and pronounced similar as sausage if written in Katakana ソーセージ

Hence the pun.

[Kaioshin Sama]

So they're Green Eggs, Sausage and Ham, Sam I Am, big deal. :eyespin:

All I know is the people who have created the I Buy Sausage Meme (people think the first line of the opening sounds like "I Buy Sausage") are going to milk this translation for all its worth if they find out about it. It won't be pretty when they do though.

[WanderingKnight]

The issue when dealing with translation is that there isn't a "best" way of doing things. There is always loss in a translation, and there are many scopes you may want to take. I favor Stratos' scope because of professionalism. When you read subs, you want to be distracted as little as possible. And if the only way to keep a minimal and cryptic pun is via a footnote, I'd rather not do it. I've already stated my liking for Stratos' translation as a translation student myself, and I'll keep on doing it as many times as possible. The one-egg/two-egg usage was brilliant, and it showed a great effort to preserve part of the pun. But there was no way to keep the sausage pun into it (I completely lost it when I watched the raw since they don't say 一卵性双/二卵性双生児, just 一卵性双/二卵性双, so the link with sausage was completely lost to me and it was still funny). Unless it was in a book or it was extremely relevant to the plot, I wouldn't reference cryptic puns in footnotes. Besides, it's always the easy way out--the better translator you are, the less you should rely on footnotes.

[DragoonKain3]

@eps 3. AFK subs
I agree with skane, one/two egg twins was plain ingenious on afk's part.

HOWEVER, the cookies part was just plain awkward, and IMO overshadowed the ingenuity they had with the one/two egg approach. I think they were trying to be more literal in that Kona remarked that there were 2 items of discussion that made her go hungry (eggs and sausages/cookies). However, if they were a bit more liberal and omitted the cookies part, it would flow much better. Something like this...

Kona: All this talk about eggs has made me go hungry...
Kagami: Nobody was talking about food.

People would still get the wordplay AND it removes the 'where tf did that come from?' feeling people would get from the cookies portion of their original subs.


As for the rage ward, it kinda makes sense. While I have no clue about the Japanese language, HEEB has also translated that Kona was joking that the charm/ward protects against traffic accidents, thus I can only assume that Kona said something about traffic accidents (omitted in LC).

Thus, AFK was trying to be literal and tried to retroactively fit 'traffic accidents' to the protection charm, so the only thing I can think of tying the two together would be that wards against rage really means wards against road rage. Which totally flew over my head since 'rage' can mean so many different things that connecting it to traffic accidents is a stretch.

My suggestion? They keep the fact that Kagami made a boo-boo in saying the word, and modifying the following dialogue from there. Such as wards against jury/injury, hoes (a ho is slang for prostitute)/woes, vex/hex, greed/grief etc.


So the verdict? AFK screwed up on two places, but it seems they screwed up because they were trying to be literal. Which is unusual, since it's as uncharacteristic of them as much as say, Triad doing speed subs. Maybe their translator is sick or something? XD

[Samatarou]

All I know is the people who have created the I Buy Sausage Meme (people think the first line of the opening sounds like "I Buy Sausage") are going to milk this translation for all its worth if they find out about it.
For some reason sausages are often a source of humour, I think this is one reason why losing the word "sausage" from one of the fansubs is rather sad. And even though the joke requires a footnote, I think a footnote that reveals that the Japanese word for twins is "sausages" is hilarious in itself.

[WanderingKnight]

People would still get the wordplay AND it removes the 'where tf did that come from?' feeling people would get from the cookies portion of their original subs.

They don't mention "生児" a single time in the dialog, either. The inclusion of cookies was to find an equivalent to Konata's randomness at pointing out a word that wasn't even mentioned, though of course in Japanese it makes a bit more sense.

PS: I saw a screencap of another raw when they made a footnote on the mentioning of lolicon by Akira. I found it terribly irrelevant and easily replaceable by "pedophiles", as in afk's translation. Kudos for that.

[Kaoru Chujo]

I agree with DragoonKain3 that just leaving out the sausages would work best. The eggs alone make the point beautifully. The sausages are nice, but sometimes you just have to give up things that don't work. Put it in a separate notes file, if you like, as one group did with PPD.

I'm afraid the cookies business has awakened my latent opposition to excessive localization in translating anime. a.f.k. does a generally great job, but they have de-japanized things too many times already. Translations can be loose (should be loose, imo), but have to convey the feeling of the original, not slip off into another world altogether. I can't even give them much credit for "one-egg/two-egg," since that is literally what the Japanese says. It's the natural translation that came to mind when I was watching the show the first time.

Sorry to be cranky, but this bothers me. I have such admiration for good translators that it really burns me when they mess up (for me) their own great work. And kj1980, I didn't get that cookies business either, and I'm as native an English-speaker as you can get.

[Skane]

~ As for the rage ward, it kinda makes sense. While I have no clue about the Japanese language, HEEB has also translated that Kona was joking that the charm/ward protects against traffic accidents, thus I can only assume that Kona said something about traffic accidents (omitted in LC).

Thus, AFK was trying to be literal and tried to retroactively fit 'traffic accidents' to the protection charm, so the only thing I can think of tying the two together would be that wards against rage really means wards against road rage. Which totally flew over my head since 'rage' can mean so many different things that connecting it to traffic accidents is a stretch.

My suggestion? They keep the fact that Kagami made a boo-boo in saying the word, and modifying the following dialogue from there. Such as wards against jury/injury, hoes (a ho is slang for prostitute)/woes, vex/hex, greed/grief etc. ~
Actually, I DID think of "Road Rage", but that line of thought got derailed due to the inclusion of safe pregnancy by Konata. I was having trouble associating "unsafe pregnancy" with "rage". :confused: That was the part that really confused me.

ADD] Actually, heck. Can someone just tell me what Kagami and Konata really said about the wards? Include footnotes if you have to. :p

Cheers.

[Vexx]

Except that 'lolicon' and 'pedophile' are two different things :) ... but whatever. Having watched ep 3 a couple of times now --- the "egg" gag works pretty well (though it'll never really be natural to say "one-egg twin" rather than "identical twins").

The black'n'white and sausage with the cookie insertion .... just kind of hangs there --- they probably could have used more brainstorming to come up with the equivalent of that. There are some interesting notes in the Azumanga Daioh english manga release that talk about wordplay issues and particularly puns. It can be challenging.

Overall, as usual, there were some aspects of LC's translation I liked better and some aspects of a.f.k.'s translation I liked better. Basically, my problem is that I want components from Column A AND Column B. :)

I'm with Kaoru ... overlocalization leads to the "mochi and sushi" hell of "donuts and candy" (Pokemon ref). They eat a hell of a lot of donuts and candy.... in all those "town carnivals".... It rather depends: in a science fantasy or alien setting - it seems fine to localize away. But in a slice-of-life setting in Japan about Japanese using Japanese culture/customs/food: leave it be (or ANY foreign language translation for that matter, Chinese, German, whatever). Most of the audience wants to be a bit outside their comfort zone and learning new bits of culture trivia or they wouldn't be watching at all. (points to the unexplained bits of wards and charms or Tanabata --- see Shinto).

[Level E]

They don't mention "生児" a single time in the dialog, either.

Ah, actually they did, right when the conversation started. After ManaKana, it was cut.

[Telliamed]

At the time of her entrance exams the PS2 was the best and the other two are just old and horrible. You can buy older game systems. The Pippin and 3DO are just 2 examples of obscure dead consoles, they could have easily used older systems (but most people would consisder even the Famicom to be better than those two).

I have a hard time believing there are that many still in circulation. Maybe at a few junk shops, but even then no one would waste money or shelf space for a Pippen.

But then I realised, maybe her father didn't actually need to buy the consoles. All he'd have to do is pull them out of storage, right? If he's as much otaku as I've been hearing, he'd likely have a Pippen and 3DO piled in with the Dreamcast, Master System, Jaguar64, and of course a 2600.

(I'd take a 3DO over any Nintendo pre-cube. I first played FIFA soccer on a 3DO and it was astounding. A lot of arcade games used 3DO boards even long after the console was discontinued.)

I've never been able to figure out the method by which anime decides to mangle a popular brand name or not ("SOMY" anyone?). They probably want to refer to other properties without actually GIVING them free advertising. The BEEPs are really bizarre - I thought she was being profane at first.


My favorite being the popular fast-food chain, "WcDonalds". KyoAni got around that in episode 2 with strategic placement of the customer's legs.

And wasn't there a Simpsons where Homer bought a Somy television?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Except that 'lolicon' and 'pedophile' are two different things :) ...

In the contest of why she said it though, it fits. She was talking about how she has her own brand of obsessive fans, and "lolicon" was not said with endearment in mind. She was being condescending and rude to her own fanbase (and indirectly, the fanbase in general), with an intent to insult. In English, using "pedophile" would be more insulting than lolicon...:heh:

[Vexx]

Which is why I said "whatever" :) :) (I'd have probably translated it as "lolita-fans" if I were going for localization but it depends on whether one thinks she's boasting of her minions or not :)).

As far as the gaming systems go.... it isn't whether they are popular NOW or not... its the fact that if she didn't do well, the level of obsolete would go higher and higher the worse she did. In Japan, less-than-the-latest is uncool (that's why all their antique furniture is being imported over here to the American continent where its loved; the young people in Japan don't want it).

At *some* point, old systems are so obsolete they become retro-cool though so Dad Izumi's tactic only works up to a certain point.

[Telliamed]

"If you don't clean your room, I'll make you play year-old video games."
"Aww, that's so unfair."

[errorrrr]

In my opinion... the essence of fansubbing is keeping the words and contexts as close to original as possible... i mean... seriously... that's what makes fansub, fansub, and localization, localization... I am very against localization which loses a lot of the meanings during the translation. What I advocate is a style of conservative-translation.... anyways enough of my blabbering :3 look forward to ep 4.

[WanderingKnight]

In my opinion... the essence of fansubbing is keeping the words and contexts as close to original as possible... i mean... seriously... that's what makes fansub, fansub, and localization, localization... I am very against localization which loses a lot of the meanings during the translation. What I advocate is a style of conservative-translation....

Not even conservative translation goes as far as some fansubbers have. It's much easier to pop up hundred of footnotes on cultural subjects and directly untranslatable stuff, but what shows best the skill of a translator is reaching the same effect without resorting to that. The thing with translation is, you'll always have losses, so since you can't maximize the gain, you need to minimize the loss. "Localization", as you call it, is not part of the translator's jargon. But it's the translator's duty to gather such an understanding of the source language and the target language, that he's able to transform the content in a completely different context, into another one that fits much better into the target context.

There is not such a thing as an equivalence between one language and another. That's why I (and most professional translators) think that blindly adjusting the target text to the source text is a feat of a poor translator.

[errorrrr]

Not even conservative translation goes as far as some fansubbers have. It's much easier to pop up hundred of footnotes on cultural subjects and directly untranslatable stuff, but what shows best the skill of a translator is reaching the same effect without resorting to that. The thing with translation is, you'll always have losses, so since you can't maximize the gain, you need to minimize the loss. "Localization", as you call it, is not part of the translator's jargon. But it's the translator's duty to gather such an understanding of the source language and the target language, that he's able to transform the content in a completely different context, into another one that fits much better into the target context.

There is not such a thing as an equivalence between one language and another. That's why I (and most professional translators) think that blindly adjusting the target text to the source text is a feat of a poor translator.

What you are suggesting is definitely what should be done for professional documents and such. However, these are pop cultural puns we are talking about... when you change the whole context, i believe it misleads the viewer. Say you watch the translated version, and then your friend who is fluent in jp have a discussion with you on the anime, you tell him cookies, and he goes sausage... what the heck??

That's just my view on these cultural things. In addition, some of the changed context totally changed the original script... Anyone could make up a whole script for an episode of Lucky Star and still make sense... I think it's a translators job to TRANSLATE the MEANING of the words both literally, and contextually; but not REWRITING the words to FIT literally and contextually.

[aorta]

But then I realised, maybe her father didn't actually need to buy the consoles. All he'd have to do is pull them out of storage, right? If he's as much otaku as I've been hearing, he'd likely have a Pippen and 3DO piled in with the Dreamcast, Master System, Jaguar64, and of course a 2600.


Yes :cool: Also a PC-Engine.

Pippen? I don't believe they exist.

[Maveric]

I had a Master System. They kick so much ass over the NES.

So if she was to get a PS2 for a B, I wonder what she'd have gotten for an A.

[Vexx]

I don't really have a problem with wanderingknight's slant on things as long as he's not suggesting "donuts and candy" are an okay substitute for "mochi and sushi" :) :)

More seriously... the "egg and sausage" trick is a nice bipolar example. The "egg" workaround a.f.k. came up with was beautifully done (minimum awkwardness, maximum effect) catching the spirit of the idea. The cookie bit.. otoh.... really failed. Every layperson I've shown the sequence to in my worthless office survey said, "what???"
Might have been better dropping that or going whole hog into left field with some comparison of black&white directly to Oreos or peppered grits (at least those go with eggs). :)

Hmmm ... "localization" is really just a term used by translators (at least the ones that work in one of the offices I support) for translation that requires just what you speak of (content transformation) usually involving phrases and concepts without direct 1:1 mapping. I will say its a term lifted from the work of software localization though.

I'll ask about and see if there's a more academically correct way to describe the concept though.... localization just seemed a natural fit for levels beyond literal+grammarfix translation.

I'm thinking more like errorrrr though... if I think a joke I saw on a show is the funniest thing since Weebl&Bob but it turns out to be purely an invention of the translator... its misleading and giving credit where none is due.

I don't want to get all whacked out about the issue. Some translations are just fine for some audiences -- you have to decide which audience you care more about or are trying to target. If I'm 'splaining quantum mechanics, the words I choose depend on the audience and the less trained the audience is --- the less accurate the words will end up being that are chosen (an analogy of an analogy of...).

I just haven't met many fansub viewers that want to have their hand held any more than absolutely necessary :) but as always, YMMV.

[Daniel E.]

Whew, just watched the episode; I think I managed to read everything posted so far (had to quick read a few post though. :p )

Eps. 3 was nice, but I'll still take eps. 2 over this one. :)

;918087']

Ok let's count those with an Akira's Avatar :D


Hmmm, and here I was planning on changing mine for a Tsukasa one this week; Hope Akira doesn't go all psycho on me now. :heh:


Her "fake-happy" is quite manic... but the joke is winding down and I really can't see it going for 20 more episodes without some substantial change.

I am still cool with Lucky Channel so far, but I agree about the whole thing getting old if they dont change it soon.

[Shiroth]

I am still cool with Lucky Channel so far. But I agree about the whole thing getting old if they dont change it soon.
Yeah, by episode three i was kinda hoping Lucky Channel wouldn't appear this episode. It could be because i was finding episode three to be so relaxing, though it was episode two that had me thinking Lucky Channel seems to be repeating.

Its fun, but not something i wanna keep seeing for 24 episodes.

[Ffenix Rising]

Pippen? I don't believe they exist.

Are you serious? :twitch:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pippin

[Telliamed]

Pippen? I don't believe they exist.

Are you serious? :twitch:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pippin

For that matter... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROUS
But I think Mr. Artery was joking.

I was quite the Apple geek (no, not those guys) at the time of Pippen. At first I was like :cool: and then as the technical details emerged I was :uhoh: then I saw the kinds of games being made for it and :upset:

So when Microsoft announced the XBox, I wasn't quite sure what to think. Of course, I see now one should never underestimate the Evil Empire's ability to get what they want by throwing gobs of money around.

(that was a wierd tyop... "shound lever")

[WanderingKnight]

I think it's a translators job to TRANSLATE the MEANING of the words both literally, and contextually; but not REWRITING the words to FIT literally and contextually.

In fact, many times a whole rewriting of a phrase is the only way around it. You'd be surprised to know how many "rewriting of words to fit" are out there in official translations, even more when the issue deals with languages diametrically opposed as English and Japanese. I'm speaking from my personal learning experience in the career I'm following, that's all. A translator doesn't translate just words. People could grab a damn dictionary if that was all that took to understand a language.

[Vexx]

I'm doing a QC on a sub right at the moment.... believe me, sometimes you have to completely rewrite the structure of a sentence so it doesn't sound hideous and explicitly add implied sentence structures so that it makes sense to english ears.

So in that respect, I'm not terribly far from WanderingKnight's viewpoint. Where it gets really complicated is in idiomatic phrases and 'cultural proverb' equivalences (english examples: throw baby out with bathwater... lead a horse to water but can't make it drink... ) Japanese has its whole own set of these things (I have a 2-inch thick book of them), never mind the mythological or historical contexts (e.g. he's a regular Einstein, she's as mercurial as Hera ... ooh double context). Puns are the toughest though, since by definition they're just going to sound odd if left literal (without footnotes).... but sometimes it just has to be brainstormed.

I prefer leaving Shinto references alone, for example, and either doing the little dance a.f.k. did with Tanabata dialog .. or just providing a footnote or two.

Ironically, some of my worst problems are with just plain bad writing - wretched dialog. Restraining myself from improving basically awful lines :)

[Fixen]

This episode is Kona-chan x Kagami. Nothing else is relevant. ^^;;

Is it just me or is Kona-chan kind of attracted to her? She seems to directly tease Kagami just to see her pissed off (and then turn away with a XD expression).

[Vexx]

They're like matter and anti-matter ... they can't resist it. But before dancey little thoughts of yuri jump around, though we can suspect Kona of bi-ambivalent thoughts - Kagami is basically a "good" girl who will probably end up doing the "right thing" (but is probably destined to be mildly miserable).
(note: using those terms strictly in the traditional sense).
They're destined to be good friends who torture each other throughout life.

[FatPianoBoy]

Yukari and Nyamo: The Early Years

:3

[Skane]

Yukari and Nyamo: The Early Years

:3
Unless Kagami and Konata undergo radical personality shifts, that comparison will not work.

Cheers.

[Leo_Otaku]

LOL what Kona-chan said about collecting things and not using them is exactly what I do. I can't stand it when people use them XD I take it out and look the stuff from time to time.

Her dad's ranking system is really awesome too. My friend's mom should try that on her XD then she would have passed that english or would have wrote the 3rd essy for the exam maybe.

[Daniel E.]

LOL what Kona-chan said about collecting things and not using them is exactly what I do. I can't stand it when people use them XD I take it out and look the stuff from time to time.

I actually know a dude who buys every comic book he likes.....twice. >_< !!

He uses the same logic as Konata, one to store safely, the other to use normally.

I have never meet anyone that buys a third copy though. :p

[Pellissier]

Forgot to comment here. Anyway I liked episode 2 more than this. Still I find myself a bit uneasy when they stand (or sit) and start talking, and talking, and talking... I'd rather see more visual variants such as the twins parallel and the arcades on episode 2, or the videogames challenge on this episode. However, the show is overwhelmed with cuteness, nothing to say about that. Best part: the ponytails. Great ending theme too, melancholic. I gave an 8, since it was better than episode 1 but weaker than episode 2 imho.

I had a question though. In Lucky Channel, Minoru says (a.f.k. 20:49) "Mochiron-ron de gozaimasu", since the correct form to say "of course" should be just "mochiron", is that a sort of reference like the "wa-wa-wa-wa" of episode 2, a simple wordplay, or nothing meaningful at all? Just curious :p

[GriS]

Twice the budget just to buy 2 identical items is not worth it for me :P

Regarding the grading, the fact there is no mention regarding present for grade A says it all, that grade A is out of Konata's reach xD or his father never wants her to score grade A which is highly unlikely.

[Holy Knight]

It's too bad my knowledge of Japanese isn't quite good enough to understand everything, but this ep was certainly on par with ep 2 in terms of jokes, IMHO.

Yeah... this anime feels like its 'out of my league' I think. Some stuff I don't get and other things are hilarious. This thread is great for the stuff I couldn't figure out, but its not the same. Its like explaining someone a joke they don't get. It just totally kills the mood.

Bless Konata with her facial expressions and the use of her time. Definately my favorite.

[Samatarou]

Are you serious? :twitch:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pippin

Actually, this is the real Apple Pippin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cox's_Orange_Pippin)

Though personally I prefer the Apple Russet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russet_apple)

Yukari and Nyamo: The Early Years If you mean Konachan and Tsukasa I might agree, I don't see Kagami as a Nyamo-sensei, she's just not nice enough.

[Kyuusai]

I'm really pleased with how the series has progressed. Not only has the animation improved a bit (especially in that there's a bit more of it), but so has the thing I spent so much time griping about before: The timing.

The style of humor is the same, it's just "tightened up", so to speak. There are still some awkward cuts--not the "fast-cut" themselves, but those in which the cut itself doesn't express the passage of time--but they are fewer.

I agree that if they keep harping on the same gag for Lucky Channel that it will get stale, but it hasn't bothered me yet.

I do hope we get some character exposition for Miyuki. So far we've gotten slightly different looks at some different sides of Konata and Kagami, and while Tsukasa seems pretty flat so far we've at least been able to see how she interacts with the others. So far all we've seen of Miyuki, though, is her existence on the side as an encyclopedia and/or ball-of-moe-exploitation. I don't see that as permanent, though, since in the first episode Konata even seemed to exist to be commented on more than she seemed to be an actual character. So, I shall wait patiently. The fact that she was chosen for the first "introduction" segment seems to be an acknowledging her missed presence.

[Vexx]

Well.. given the material in the existing manga to-date.... there *should* be plentry of material to expand on all the characters (even the not-yet seen ones) given the length of the series.

I'm really hoping to see some of the teacher/policeofficer/kona-dad stuff animated.

Just reviewed Eien no Anime's releases over in the Quote and Generic threads if anyone is still looking for a translation style that suits them more than a.f.k. or LC.

[Kisuke06]

Episode 3 was good, not so much as the second, but I liked it. Konata singing FMP OP in the end of the episode was very nostalgic, I felt like watching Fumoffu! again. =)

[Diedrupo]

Except that 'lolicon' and 'pedophile' are two different things :) ... but whatever.


Lolicon and pedophile may be two different words, but they are pretty similar. Lolicon refering to the "love of young girls" and pedophile being a person with sexual interest in young children. Since Lolicon is not an english word (its a concatenation of an english phrase, lolita complex, but lolicon itself is not a word used in the english lexicon), only a weeaboo would use that in a translation. Pedophile would be a perfectly acceptable word to replace it with (as seen in the earliest Azumanga Daioh scanslations) since it is the english word closest to what Lolicon means short of using "lolita complex" which would be awkward in any translation. Both words have a negative meaning to them, though non-japanese otaku have taken to using lolicon as something they are proud of... :P

[Vexx]

Lolicon and pedophile may be two different words, but they are pretty similar. Lolicon refering to the "love of young girls" and pedophile being a person with sexual interest in young children. Since Lolicon is not an english word (its a concatenation of an english phrase, lolita complex, but lolicon itself is not a word used in the english lexicon), only a weeaboo would use that in a translation. Pedophile would be a perfectly acceptable word to replace it with (as seen in the earliest Azumanga Daioh scanslations) since it is the english word closest to what Lolicon means short of using "lolita complex" which would be awkward in any translation. Both words have a negative meaning to them, though non-japanese otaku have taken to using lolicon as something they are proud of... :P

Pedophilia refers to sexual attraction to pre-pubsescent children. It is often misused by lay people to refer to attraction to "underage" women (where underage varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction). It depends on how one defines a "young girl" I suppose ....
"loli" also refers to a clothing style or waifish appearance - making its meaning even more multi-layered. My observation of japanese culture shows some grey murkiness in the term's use.
In terms of the episode.... it really depends on how we're to intrepret her remarks ... and whether we should consider her "lolita"-ish or younger. She certainly doesn't look child-like when she drops into her "dark" mode. :)

As far as the english lexicon... half the english language is composed of lifted words (more than a few recently from japanese).... english is a thuggish language of acquisition.

... which is why I said "whatever" .... :)

Does this mean we get to chain you up and paddle you now? :)

[Anime Online]

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/975/konata03yh5.th.jpg (http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=konata03yh5.jpg)

I didn't really get the part where Konata's nose kept growing longer and longer while she was flashing the victory sign at Kagami. I thought it might be a Pinocchio reference (a liar's long nose), but it didn't make much sense. Was it implying that Konata was cheating at the quiz game?

[Vexx]

Aye... that wasn't such a great metaphorical connection. I assume they were trying to convey she was "cheating" (knew the pattern, cheatcode, whatever). But since Pinocchio didn't "cheat" so much as just "lie" .... I guess functionally there isn't much difference but it did seem a little weak.

[Pellissier]

Agreed, that didn't work much. It would have worked if Konata had previously stated: "I don't know this game", "it's the first time I'm playing it" or "I've played so many that I barely remember it" (and so on). With the lack of any of them the joke loses of consistency, if it even keeps one.

Indeed as Vexx says, Pinocchio is meant as a liar, but not really as a cheater.

[Kaoru Chujo]

In Japan, the long nose isn't associated with Pinocchio, but with the Tengu, which is a kind of prideful goblin. See here (http://www.alientimes.org/Main/JapaneseLegendAboutTengu)and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengu).

[Anh_Minh]

edit: never mind

[Jazzrat]

just to add a bit on the long nose metaphor, in most orient/asian setting. The long nose are used for someone whose arrogant or prideful. The lying part is solely from Pinocchio if i m not wrong.

In this context, the long nose is most likely used to illustrate Konata's arrogance when it comes to gaming skill.

[frogblast]

In Japan, the long nose isn't associated with Pinocchio, but with the Tengu, which is a kind of prideful goblin. See here (http://www.alientimes.org/Main/JapaneseLegendAboutTengu)and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengu).

just to add a bit on the long nose metaphor, in most orient/asian setting. The long nose are used for someone whose arrogant or prideful. The lying part is solely from Pinocchio if i m not wrong.

In this context, the long nose is most likely used to illustrate Konata's arrogance when it comes to gaming skill.

thanks - that scene makes much more sense now!

and i agree with the general feeling of this ep not being as good as 2, but better than ep 1.

fumoffu ftw!

[Anime Online]

Thanks for explaining the puzzle of Konata's elongating nose. I've seen depictions of tengu before, but the connection didn't click until now.

[Skane]

In Japan, the long nose isn't associated with Pinocchio, but with the Tengu, which is a kind of prideful goblin. See here (http://www.alientimes.org/Main/JapaneseLegendAboutTengu)and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tengu).
just to add a bit on the long nose metaphor, in most orient/asian setting. The long nose are used for someone whose arrogant or prideful. The lying part is solely from Pinocchio if i m not wrong.

In this context, the long nose is most likely used to illustrate Konata's arrogance when it comes to gaming skill.
Thanks for the explanation. I had an inkling it might be a cultural joke, but it was lost on me. Cookies for you.

Cheers.

[Pellissier]

Indeed thanks to both. It shows once again how troublesome it is to catch certain references within different cultures. I'll rewatch that scene with a new eye from now on.

[Deathkillz]

yea its sometimes a problem when the show comments heavily on the cultural and language differences...there only so much foot notes you can put above the lines spoken but seriously it really limits the fun if you arent able to get the joke first thing >.< with the LC subs i had to pause the ep quite a number of times just to read the info at the top...which kinda annoyed me as it not only interrupted the flow of the ep but also i get the feeling of being dumbed down :heh:

edit: and thats a fricking big nose (points at wiki article) XD

[Ascaloth]

Pedophilia refers to sexual attraction to pre-pubsescent children. It is often misused by lay people to refer to attraction to "underage" women (where underage varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction). It depends on how one defines a "young girl" I suppose ....
"loli" also refers to a clothing style or waifish appearance - making its meaning even more multi-layered. My observation of japanese culture shows some grey murkiness in the term's use.
In terms of the episode.... it really depends on how we're to intrepret her remarks ... and whether we should consider her "lolita"-ish or younger. She certainly doesn't look child-like when she drops into her "dark" mode. :)

As far as the english lexicon... half the english language is composed of lifted words (more than a few recently from japanese).... english is a thuggish language of acquisition.

... which is why I said "whatever" .... :)

Does this mean we get to chain you up and paddle you now? :)

Hold the chains and paddles, grasshopper. From the way you describe your missus every now and then, some might say you're a lolicon. :p J/K

[Simon]

[Akari] was talking about how she has her own brand of obsessive fans, and "lolicon" was not said with endearment in mind. She was being condescending and rude to her own fanbase (and indirectly, the fanbase in general), with an intent to insult.
I wonder if she posts on Mixi? :heh:

Lolicon and pedophile may be two different words, but they are pretty similar. ... Pedophile would be a perfectly acceptable word to replace it with ... since it is the english word closest to what Lolicon means short of using "lolita complex" which would be awkward in any translation.
Slightly OT, but "lolita" can also be used with a very different meaning (http://www.hikari.org.nz/stuff/otaku/sm/takemoto.html) in Japan. Do the Japanese ever refer to the dirty-raincoat variety as "lolita", or do they reserve "loli" for that? I once saw a sign reading 「ロリ・コーナー」 in a Toranoana store, though unfortunately not soon enough to prevent my eyes burning...


Anyway, ep3:

Am I the only one who immediately thought "Haruhi reference" during this dialogue?

Kagami: But I have a feeling that anyone would look good with a ponytail.
Konata: Are you sure about that?

I'm probably reading too much into it (in fact does this bit in the manga predate SHnY?), but just the way Konata paused seemed significant. Unless it was an "anyone except you, Kagami-chan" sort of pause.

I also cracked up at Konata's impassioned speech about not defiling your anime collectibles by using them - not least because I've just been sorting out my collection of pretty-but-useless Japanese phonecards. The dramatic BGM during her speech just makes it funnier.

Finally, I love Konata's voice during the "I'm a geek" bit - the combination of Hirano's intonation and the slight echo they add has me going back and replaying it with my eyes closed. And don't get me started on the "victory sound" she makes during this scene:

http://www.hikari.org.nz/stuff/otaku/lucky_star/lucky_star_ep3_kowai_onee_chan.jpg
Excuse me while I squee :)

[Samatarou]

Am I the only one who immediately thought "Haruhi reference" during this dialogue?

Kagami: But I have a feeling that anyone would look good with a ponytail.
Konata: Are you sure about that?

It's been discussed in some forums, it certainly made me think of Kyon's speech to Haruhi about looking good in a ponytail. When you add in the fumoffu allusion too it makes you wonder whether Kyon might have a secret hobby of lurking in dark alleyways wearing a horse's head... in Konata's imagination maybe...

[Vexx]

Hold the chains and paddles, grasshopper. From the way you describe your missus every now and then, some might say you're a lolicon. :p J/K

:) look up "weeaboo" and the obscure reference will make more sense :)

Heh, he said "weeaboo".

[Jazzrat]

thanks for the cookie :)

just an extra for the niceties, the same long pointy nose metaphor was also used in Honey & Clover when Morita proclaim Bill Gates as his guardian angel. (Mr Microsoft had a unnaturally pointy nose in that part)


http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/4241/hachimitsu2ze2.jpg
my my, Bill Gates sure have a pointy nose
http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/1344/lucky3pt6.jpg
but Konata's is pointier... does that mean Kona-chan is the better geek?

[Maveric]

At the end of the episode (afk 19:30), Konata says "That was what you call an element of turning people on." right before her "GOOD JOB!" Is that supposed to mean the same kid of "turn on" as in western culture? Cuz they've used it before too, but I don't see how this play on words really works as a joke.

Or you know, I could have no sense of humor and just don't get it.

[Anh_Minh]

Moe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_%28slang%29) isn't necessarily sexual.

[Samatarou]

At the end of the episode (afk 19:30), Konata says "That was what you call an element of turning people on." afk used the same phrase to describe moe in Haruhi, it's a rather narrow definition which fitted the Haruhi case where she was talking about Mikuru's moe attributes but like Anh_Minh says moe isn't necessarily about sexiness, in fact there is no universally accepted definition of the term moe, it means many things to many people in various subcultures. That it arises from two homophones, "budding" and "burning" (萌え and 燃え), is about all that can be said without too much fear of contradiction.

All Kona-chan means when she says "good job" is that Miyuki is living up to the moe sterotype that Kona-chan has of her. Personally I'd never considered klutziness to be a significant aspect of moe, but it's clear from Kona-chan's ramblings about Miyuki that some people do, presumably because it can confer an endearing quality of vulnerability that makes people feel protective about that person. However not every klutzy person is moe by a long chalk, and in fact I don't regard Miyuki as moe myself, I think Tsukasa is the real moe character. Miyuki is the "tick box" moe character, like others have said she's a parody: on paper she has all the attributes required of a moe character yet they don't combine to give a real feeling of moe (I probably just pissed off a lot of Miyuki fans there....)

[Skane]

~ (I probably just pissed off a lot of Miyuki fans there....)
Wait... there's Miyuki-fans out there?

j/k :heh:

Narf.

[Daniel E.]

Wait... there's Miyuki-fans out there?

j/k :heh:

Narf.

ROOARRRR !!!

I wont forget this!! j/k :heh: :heh: :heh:

[Anime Online]

I would say Miyuki fits one version of moe, but the really moe one would be Akira. From her overlong sleeves, her cute Japanese and her expressions, the overall impression just screams "MOE!". This makes her Jekyll & Hyde transformations funnier.

[Telliamed]

I think we'd have a much harder time trying to find the character in L*S who isn't moe.

... hell, even Minoru has it.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Personally, I like most of the Akamatsu Ken definition of moe (http://matthew.animeblogger.net/archives/2005/07/20/wednesday_notes_akamatsu-sensei_talks_moe.php), which involves a reflexive "motherly" obsession with someone cute and in need of protection. I think that's why being klutzy is moe. But I think Akamatsu protests too much when he says there is never a sexual element involved.

However, I think that the term has become completely debased now, in the SaiMoe tournament in particular, so that it in common parlance it just means "turns you on." So that translation would be okay...except that I think Konata is using "moe" in its original sense.

But I'm not going to be a stickler here. I'd probably just translate it "moe," myself, but "turn-on" is quite reasonable, and has the definite advantage of being more widely understood.

[nikorai]

hello.
im awfully late. just watched the episode though i downloaded it back on tuesday. i think i need to watch it again. there are a lot of talks full of jokes and references. i surely missed half of them

[bayoab]

Personally, I like most of the Akamatsu Ken definition of moe (http://matthew.animeblogger.net/archives/2005/07/20/wednesday_notes_akamatsu-sensei_talks_moe.php), which involves a reflexive "motherly" obsession with someone cute and in need of protection. I think that's why being klutzy is moe. But I think Akamatsu protests too much when he says there is never a sexual element involved.
I'm going to interject here and point out that Akamatsu is a lolicon/pedophile. (Yes, he falls under both). Therefore his attempt to define "moe" is the same as asking a standard leecher to define a fansub. (They will deny/not mention illegality.)

However, I think that the term has become completely debased now, in the SaiMoe tournament in particular, so that it in common parlance it just means "turns you on." So that translation would be okay...except that I think Konata is using "moe" in its original sense.

But I'm not going to be a stickler here. I'd probably just translate it "moe," myself, but "turn-on" is quite reasonable, and has the definite advantage of being more widely understood.
I think it's clear that, especially in the context of ep3, Konata means fetish which is just the same contextually as a turn-on. She is refering to how Miyuki's silly clutziness is something guys will like. (I use fetish since she refers to it as an element or type.)

The other problem of not translating "moe" is that while "moe" makes sense to hardcore otaku as a word, the majority of otaku have one of three definitions in their head. Therefore putting it in a sub would cause different meanings to different people.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I'm going to interject here and point out that Akamatsu is a lolicon/pedophile. (Yes, he falls under both). Therefore his attempt to define "moe" is the same as asking a standard leecher to define a fansub. (They will deny/not mention illegality.)

Except of course, Akamatsu is happily married...

I fail to see how he wouldn't be qualified to give a definition for moe. Your opinion of the manga author is rather unnaturally harsh, I am afraid. Are you suggesting he should be in jail?:twitch:

[bayoab]

Except of course, Akamatsu is happily married...

I fail to see how he wouldn't be qualified to give a definition for moe. Your opinion of the manga author is rather unnaturally harsh, I am afraid. Are you suggesting he should be in jail?:twitch:

Akamatsu got married to his current wife when she was 16. (He was 30+.) I can't find the information for it but she was at most 14 when they first met. (There are rumors regarding negima!? and love hina regarding these issues.) To give another analogy, him defining moe is the same thing as a drug addict defining addiction.

I am not suggesting he should be jailed or anything. I am just saying that someone who likes young girls should not be defining that a word regarding feelings toward young girls (in his case).

[FatPianoBoy]

I am not suggesting he should be jailed or anything. I am just saying that someone who likes young girls should not be defining that a word regarding feelings toward young girls (in his case).

Because he has feelings for young girls, he's not qualified to define feelings toward young girls...? :eyebrow:

As for your comparison, I think I'd trust a drug addicts definition of addiciton more than someone who has never known what it's like to be addicted to something.

[iamandragon]

I think what people mean by AK not qualified to define 'moe' is because his feelings might create a biased definition?
IMO, to define an emotion, you must have experienced that particular emotion, but in order to express it clearly in an unbiased fashion, you must have not have feeling of that emotion.
Well that's easy, let's make AK loose his emotions then he will qualify.

Wait. Not till he finishes drawing the MSN series, I'm still hooked to it!

[Risaa]

This has been bothering me everytime I watch it. Right at 9:16, Kona-chan says something like, "otto matta Kagamiya". Did I write that correctly, and what is that referencing?

[Vexx]

I don't have my episode handy... but I thought she said "chotto mata, Kagami ya" ... asking her to "hold on a minute"??? I'll check when I get home or unless someone corrects my faulty memory..

[Risaa]

I don't have my episode handy... but I thought she said "chotto mata, Kagami ya" ... asking her to "hold on a minute"??? I'll check when I get home or unless someone corrects my faulty memory..

I mean, I'm certain the meaning must be the same ("hold on a minute") because it would make sense..

I keep thinking I'm missing the "cho" in "chotto" but no matter how many times I play it, I hear it without, just "otto". Am I going crazy or does someone else hear that too? @_@

Edit-ness: Robertness just clued me in that "Kagamiya" might be a corruption of "Kagami-yan". I've never heard of "yan", but he says Silvi (Sylvi? Shirubi?) from Rikujou Boueitai Mao-chan (genki, kawaii series BTW) uses it when addressing Mao-chan. Oh, and she uses some strange variety of Osaka-ben. Hrmm.

[Vexx]

Kona mutters and mangles like crazy... it makes it challenging to translate her written dialog in the manga - she plays with her words so much. aye... I just assumed the "ya" was a corruption of "yan" ... or even a lazy ass version of "chiyan" or gods knows what.

[Samatarou]

This has been bothering me everytime I watch it. Right at 9:16, Kona-chan says something like, "otto matta Kagamiya". Did I write that correctly, and what is that referencing?

Sounds slightly more like "outo matta kagamiya" to me; the way she says it sounds like she's imitating someone else's manner of speech though I've no idea who (famous personality? Yoda?). "Outo" means vomiting... I don't suppose she's really telling Kagami to hold her vomit though...

[Vexx]

Hmmm, after listening to it far too many times... I keep interpreting it as
'otto matta, Kagamiya (fixed via Risaa brain-slap, sumimasen)
She does seem to be channeling someone in a Yoda sort of way.... I'll wager she's doing an impression of *someone* a j-geek would recognize who says that line.
How many of us use movie lines inserted into our daily speech patterns and try to do an impression. My older son can do a scarily perfect impression of Stitch, for example.
<shrug> I'll stick with the interp that she's being mangly casual with:
chotto matta, Kagami-chiyan (see above)
unless someone can come up with something brilliant (a.f.k. seems to think it was a mangled "wait a minute" as well... EnA hasn't released #3 yet so no touchpoint there)

edit: Yotsuba is referred to repeatedly throughout the Yotsuba series as "Yotsuba-chiyan" .... yet googling and my books provide me absolutely no reference to the honorific (which I finally assumed was some silly way to address her like "Little Mistress Yotsuba"). o the fun of figuring this stuff out...
Suffixes can also be combined in a more or less humorous manner, like "-chama" (chan + sama), as in "obaa-chama" for "grand-mother", which is both affectionate and respectful. There is a lot of freedom in the possible combinations.

If there's anything I've learned so far is that if there is a way to shorten casual speech and increase the ambiguity in Japanese... somewhere its being done.

[Risaa]

Sounds slightly more like "outo matta kagamiya" to me; the way she says it sounds like she's imitating someone else's manner of speech though I've no idea who (famous personality? Yoda?). "Outo" means vomiting... I don't suppose she's really telling Kagami to hold her vomit though... That's my guess as well. I think she's intimidating imitating someone...

chotto mata, Kagami-chiyan

Sorry to be nitpicky, but I insist it's "chotto matta". "Wait" is "matsu", which conjugates to "matta" (though I hear "chotto matte" more often). Besides... "mata" means "groin", so Kona-chan would be saying "small groin, Kagami-chiyan". :)

(I suppose unless you mean the "mata" as in the adverb, like "mata ashita". But that's not as fun. :p )

[Vexx]

No... thats just my brain not working right.... I have no idea why I was typing it without the double cons that way. I've seen it typed "matte" and "matta" so YMMV.
Edited and credit for Great Justice...

[kenjiharima]

ahhh...finally watched the subs!! Sorry I can't understand most Japanese words.
I gave it a 10 since Kona-chan's giggles are to cute to resist and the way she plays with Kagami is to funny. Hahaha...reminds me of my friend and I. It's really a slice of life...but I hope to see more characters in the future episodes.

[DragoonKain3]

@Bozzy
WinD's the 'textbook' version of the subs; if they can be represented by a character in LS, it would be Miyuki. Almost everything is translated (signs, books etc), and there's lots of footnotes to read (of which makes the most sense out of all the subs, see charms portion of this ep). On top of that, they have even more detailed notes over at their forums, which IMO is a great read for anyone the least bit interested in Japanese culture.

They also have the most understandable subs for the OP, though it can be argued that the OP wasn't meant to be understood in the first place. XD

They translated 'otto matta kagaminya' as 'Hey, wait right there, Kagamin', for those wondering.

[Meophist]

Isn't "otto" a boyish way of saying "chotto"?

[Vexx]

Dunno.... can't find any reference cites for that either.

A line so simple that requires so much churning kind should kind of make it clear how much fun it is to translate this particular work (and just how much the "business japanese" most people learn can vary from "daily japanese". I frequently pick at my instructor to include the variances because most of the people who take her class aren't learning it for "business" reasons. More often they want to talk to new family members, or grandchildren, or they're going to take a trip, or they'd like to make their coworkers more comfortable (we have more than a few bilingual companies in the area). Where she draws the line is that she's only going to cover "Tokyo-ben" even though she herself is not from Tokyo :).

[Tatsumiko]

Heheheheheheh....VERY nice try Lucky star girls...

talking about several animes making them sound like theyre living in reality.

well im not buying it >)....I will not fully compare anime's with real-life...well..maybe sometimes... T-T"

..ah!...gotta get busy on my new sig!....:3

[Risaa]

Isn't "otto" a boyish way of saying "chotto"?

Where did you get that idea from (what source)?

I'm just really intrigued by the line and how she says it, but also I was thinking of adding it to a so far, very simple wallpaper. :heh: I'm thinking of a Kona-chan wallpaper with her saying something directed at Kagami, and having aggravated-Kagami icons scattered around my desktop. I like "otto matta Kagamiya" so far because Kona-chan says it in such a snide voice. :heh:

A line so simple that requires so much churning kind should kind of make it clear how much fun it is to translate this particular work (and just how much the "business japanese" most people learn can vary from "daily japanese". I frequently pick at my instructor to include the variances because most of the people who take her class aren't learning it for "business" reasons. More often they want to talk to new family members, or grandchildren, or they're going to take a trip, or they'd like to make their coworkers more comfortable (we have more than a few bilingual companies in the area). Where she draws the line is that she's only going to cover "Tokyo-ben" even though she herself is not from Tokyo :).

Waa, that reminds me of my sensei from last semester. She claimed to be trilingual, so the class asked her what other language she knows besides Japanese and English. She replied, "Kansai-ben". XD! (My Japanese teachers are the only teachers I've ever had in which I've been tempted to call them "adorable", but that feels wrong. :heh: ) We then got her to say a few lines in Kansai-ben, wa, omoshirokatta, I wish I could take a class just on different Japanese dialects.

At MIT, they primarily teach keigo (business Japanese), which is understandable... It just gives me a weird feeling whenever my friend (who attends MIT) speaks to me in keigo while I'm speaking informally to her. The bad thing about learning keigo (IMO) is that it has made me very nervous while speaking to teachers in Japanese... I really need to get used to keigo. :heh:

[Meophist]

Where did you get that idea from (what source)?I have absolutely no idea. It just felt like that to me, I guess.

[Vexx]

Not to derail from ep 3 or the translation... but yes... every japanese teacher my sons or I have had were also adorable (little sprites). But I'll even add the elderly retired candy manufacturing executive I had one session, he was a real character :) ). The Russian teacher I had in college was adorable as well -- and she always said she'd prefer teaching us Russian at the pub.

My current japanese instructor is probably 10 years older than me, looks half my age, and gets that "bad little kid" gleam in her eye that makes her look even younger.

Right... back to translation fun....

[dahl_moon]

By the way, can anyone explain what that thing in the background is?
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1562/kagamiroomvi2.th.png (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kagamiroomvi2.png)
It looks like a shinto related altar, but seems rather extravagant for a home altar (especially considering they're playing on the PS2 in front of it. Yeah I've heard about the Japanese and their views on religion, but....)

Edit: Would 祭壇 be the right word for it?

[Vexx]

By the way, can anyone explain what that thing in the background is?
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1562/kagamiroomvi2.th.png (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kagamiroomvi2.png)
It looks like a shinto related altar, but seems rather extravagant for a home altar (especially considering they're playing on the PS2 in front of it. Yeah I've heard about the Japanese and their views on religion, but....)

Edit: Would 祭壇 be the right word for it?

It is a shinto shrine... but yes, it is a fairly fancy one (might run about $1200?). It isn't unusual to keep them in the den/family room area, sometimes next to the buddhist 'ancestor remembrance' altar. (Ours is a lot smaller and lurks in the entertainment/library area).

I think its a subtle indication that the two sisters are fairly well off.

[Furudanuki]

By the way, can anyone explain what that thing in the background is?
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1562/kagamiroomvi2.th.png (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kagamiroomvi2.png)
It looks like a shinto related altar, but seems rather extravagant for a home altar (especially considering they're playing on the PS2 in front of it. Yeah I've heard about the Japanese and their views on religion, but....)

Edit: Would 祭壇 be the right word for it?

A household Shinto shrine would be 神棚 "kamidana"
It may be larger than usual since the twins' father is a priest (from ep#2) .

Edit - Seems I was a tad late...

[Vexx]

No, not late.. just expanding (I had brainfarted on the sisters being the daughter of the shinto priest).

[Risaa]

I think its a subtle indication that the two sisters are fairly well off.

I think the best indication that they're well off is that their family is large yet the girls each have their own room, despite it being Japan (land and housing is NOT cheap).

[Fixen]

I think the best indication that they're well off is that their family is large yet the girls each have their own room, despite it being Japan (land and housing is NOT cheap).

I thought Miyuki's supposed to be the rich one...if done this way, Konata would be the only "commoner." XD

Yes, Ouran is still somewhere in my head.

[kj1980]

I think the best indication that they're well off is that their family is large yet the girls each have their own room, despite it being Japan (land and housing is NOT cheap).

They live in Kasukabe, which is in Saitama; a suburbia of Tokyo. Land is fairly much more cheaper as you go farther and farther away from Metro-Tokyo. And being from a Shinto shrine, they are somewhat exempt from numerous taxes (as with most nations who has a specified separation of church and state laws prohibiting taxes from religious organizations). That doesn't make the Hiirage family "rich" persay as other cost-of-living expenses are still high, which I would assume to be so due to their particularly large family. You may also note that the Hiiragi family still uses an old analog rotary phone, whereas Konata has a number-display capable personal handset.

[mukansa monkey]

Wait... there's Miyuki-fans out there?
j/k :heh:
Narf.
Shiraishi agrees with me, Miyuki is the bestest! Super-smart, slightly goofy, utterly adorable too. I want to be her in my next life. I'm amused that she's not actually that moe though, so many generic elements there yet it just doesn't work. Probably because she's too genius, and mostly so competent, self-reliant, etc. Just waiting for her to get more screen time for personality development. I briefly thought about neg-repping you for such an outrageous comment Skane, but I forgive you because you have the best visual pun in your avatar that I've ever seen.
:: wanders off to karaoke the Star Blazers theme::

Ending karaoke didn't bother me too much, I'm only mildly amused by the whole concept to begin with, so it doesn't matter that much if Konata's "good" singing voice is a bit too good. It's not like she went into full operatic voice anyways. I'm more amused by the previous ones though, just because I've never liked the sappy romance sort of songs to begin with. Looking forward to what songs get picked by the other chars.


Lucky Channel doesn't involve breaking the fourth wall. From a wiki: "The term "breaking the fourth wall" is used in theatre when a character or the use of some device makes the actors "aware" that they are being watched by an audience." Since the two performers in Lucky Channel are simply being themselves talking to the camera, there isn't a fourth wall. Shiraishi is Shiraishi, and Akira... well, she is changing personas, not characters. Revealing some less-than-pleasant aspects of working with entertainment pros is amusing to the audience, but her mood swings aren't about the fourth wall.


Konata's humor often relies on her being unaware of the fourth wall. One of my favorite lines from this ep (according to a.f.k.): "The world's always been interested in watching the gap between physical age and mental age." Kagami doesn't get it because she's not the audience... and Konata certainly doesn't seem like she's referring to herself, even though she's the prime example. Likewise, for there to exist a show called Fumoffu in the Lucky Star world makes sense because it's supposed to be the real world.

What this show (and this ep in particular) has in mass quantity is self-reference, and metareference. Characters talking about anime characters as real people. Real people as anime characters. Anime chars who are anime fans being used by their animators to criticize real people. I think it's pointless to try and map this stuff out because the frames of reference keep changing and referencing between many different levels. To me this is what makes this show better than Azumanga, the way in which multiple levels of meaning get inserted in so regularly. Of course, I'm a really big geek for this kind of philosophy...

A really good book that explores the weird relationships and effects that are inherent to the concept of self-referentiality is "Godel, Escher, Bach" by Douglas Hofstadter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel,_Escher,_Bach
Read it, and you will not only gain a better understanding of Lucky Star, but its common theme with metamathematics, molecular biology, free will, and musical counterpoint. You will attain enlightenment. Or your head will explode... heh.

[Dee Eon]

Hi!

Not exactly sure this is the right episode topic because I don't have my lap to check the ep now (sorry if it's misplaced this topic then!), but in the ep where the girls are discussing falling asleep on the train and missing their stops, Konata's sitting in the train and nodding off against the shoulder of someone who looks AWFULLY like awesome Tommy Lee Jones! Is this a plant? Is he pop there too???

Dee