Claymore Manga - Viz's English Version

[NoSanninWa]

Claymore

http://s01.imagehost.org/0769/Claymore_manga_03.jpg

This is the thread to discuss the Claymore manga as released in English by Viz Media. The purpose of this thread is to allow discussion of the English translation without worrying about spoilers from the Japanese original which isn't released in the west. If you want to discuss volumes that have not yet been translated into English and released by Viz, then please check out the Claymore Manga - Raw Japanese Version thread. Any discussion of Claymore manga that has not been released in the US by Viz will be treated as a spoiler, so be careful or you might get banned!

Until recently the discussion of Claymore manga was mixed and contained both the most recent chapters released by Shueisha and the most recent volumes released by Viz. Chaos ensues. If you want to check out the original discussion, you will find it here: Claymore - Manga Discussion Thread

Latest Volume released by Viz = 11
(volume 12 scheduled for release in July, 2008)

Please discuss chapters unreleased by Viz in the Claymore Manga - Japanese Version thread.

[Daniel E.]

How did you guys feel about Clare getting a new arm from Ilena in Vol. 7?

I am not really sure if I actually like this sort of "Power up" system :p

[NoSanninWa]

Oh lord... what a question. There was so much happening in volume 7 that I almost got a heart attack, though for me the biggest issue was the kiss.

As for the new arm, fercrissakes! That was not a power up system. While it is full of unique and interesting potential for abuse, you can't seriously call it a power up system. To abuse this system you'd need to find someone whose body is stronger than your own. Then you'd need to kill them somehow, hack off their limb and make it your own. Not exactly the same as going SSJ-2 or learning bankai. The uses for this are rather limited and honestly nobody can benefit from this nearly as much as Clare. Clare is really the only strong person whose body is weak enough to need the flesh of others.

Also, this is very story driven and extrememly emotional. At first I'm suffering as Clare learns to fight without her right arm. Then I almost freaked out when Ilena chopped off her own arm for Clare to use. It won't be as shocking in the future, but it is still a big deal to take someone else's flesh and make it your own.

[Child_of_Sierra]

I'm alright with it cause it's definitely better than gaining strength so soon cause of "a will to live" or "I want to be the best" or some such ideal that most shounen heroes tend to sputter in the middle of a fight.

Thus far, even with her rank it's nice that all the skills and powers Clare has displayed were well explained. (she's been practicing that skill of teresa for quite some time).

Interesting to note that the reason she ranks 47 is cause she's only really a quarter youma so being able to cross swords with other claymores requires her to have at least a half youma arm...:P

I'd throw a fit though if she ends up as some medieval version of frankenstien if picking body parts from future comrades become a trend

[Daniel E.]

As for the new arm, fercrissakes! That was not a power up system. While it is full of unique and interesting potential for abuse, you can't seriously call it a power up system. To abuse this system you'd need to find someone whose body is stronger than your own. Then you'd need to kill them somehow, hack off their limb and make it your own. Not exactly the same as going SSJ-2 or learning bankai. The uses for this are rather limited and honestly nobody can benefit from this nearly as much as Clare. Clare is really the only strong person whose body is weak enough to need the flesh of others.

Also, this is very story driven and extrememly emotional. At first I'm suffering as Clare learns to fight without her right arm. Then I almost freaked out when Ilena chopped off her own arm for Clare to use.

Well, the whole Power up comment was a joke of sorts actually.

In the end, I just didn't like it, and hope that it never happens again. >_< !!

I'd throw a fit though if she ends up as some medieval version of frankenstien if picking body parts from future comrades become a trend

Yes, this is what I fear as well.

[NoSanninWa]

I seriously doubt Clare would want to do it again unless she is forced to. After all, think about the first time she did it. It was an act of love to make Theresa's flesh part of herself. She didn't just want to be a Claymore. She wanted to be a Claymore born of Theresa.

With Ilena, Clare had been bonding with Ilena as her student and she needed that arm too much to say no. I rather doubt that this will happen again casually. At least I hope not.

[Child_of_Sierra]

Regarding that part about Theresa, I'm actually surprised that the organization agreed to Clare's condition. Recruitment must have not been good those years for them to go along with a whim that created a substandard claymore (all other factors aside, my university math professor attests that 1/2 > 1/4 lol).

[Nightengale]

Considering that Clare is the first, and probably only person who wanted to become a Claymore at her own free will (( Ophelia is debatable )), I doubt the Organization cares too much. Clare was offering herself for free for a flexible condition anyway, so the Organization has nothing to lose by accepting her. Besides, the Organization treats their Claymore like disposable crap anyway.

[NoSanninWa]

Maybe they even thought it was an interesting experiment. Just to see how it turned out.

The Organization are bastards.

[zato_1one]

Maybe they even thought it was an interesting experiment. Just to see how it turned out.

The Organization are bastards.

I do agree with that. The Organization might found that it was interesting whether Claymore could inherit ability from former Claymore's flesh and blood. So, they decided to receive Clare offer. But it turned out that Clare was number 47 though. :uhoh:

[Negativedark]

I do agree with that. The Organization might found that it was interesting whether Claymore could inherit ability from former Claymore's flesh and blood. So, they decided to receive Clare offer. But it turned out that Clare was number 47 though. :uhoh:

That's what I was thinking too. Teresa was so good, that they would have wanted to keep that power around if they could.

As for the arm Bieng a "power up", It's less cliche than "train for a week, get five times stronger". Also I think Claire has to be at more of a disadvantage against her fellow Claymores. She made her whole figting techneque revovle around sensing Yoma Power, and if they supress it, she can't sense it. As Miria said, it's perfect for awakened biengs.

[Zu Ra]

I really dont think Clare is weaker than the other Claymores in resp to Yoma powers . She may be ranked 47 IMO thats for her skills . She is 1/4 Terresa too and thats her trump card . She can already ultilize Terresa's yoma power sensing abilities and predict move, we have know idea what else is in store . Terresa was in a league of her own even Priscilla Unawakened was no match for her

[dutchman]

Am I the only one who is a little bit disturbed by the bloodthirsty pshycho ways of Ophelia?

She easy made it into the top 10 of all time evil villians with her cruel antics
(cutting of all Clare's limbs, torturing Raki both physically and mentally)
.

When I thought a bit deeper about why she disturbed me I came to the conclusion that despite her age being (on appearence based) in the same range as Clare.

She is almost like a little kid. A little kid who is very intelligent/powerfull but has no moral values and thus without remorse dismembers insects (in her case, yoma's, awakened ones..fellow claymores, human witnesses). (she also was quite childish when she brought up her preffered 'nickname' based on her deadly sword style)

I have read the raws but since my japanese isn't good enough I have to wait for volume 8 to come out in june to really understand her pshyche cause I do not accept that a thirst for vengeance (for her brother) can warp someone to be that evil and remorseless.

Also based from what I read in vol. 6/7 its almost if she actually liked Clare (in her own warped way) or at least admired her sort of.

[Zu Ra]

Ophelia does remind you of demented version of Priscilla. Also its interesting to note just like Priscilla, she bears deep physiological scars

[Negativedark]

My guess about Ophelia is that she was really unhinged after her brothers death, and the process to become a Claymore didn't help any. She became a monster because she lacked any and all emaphy, and its horribly fitting she didn't even realize it when she awakened, as her psyche was so twisted to begin with. In some ways she's tragic, because she's a poster child for the quote "In the hunting of monsters be careful you do not become one yourself."

Oh and her name was kinda fitting for someone so crazy, wasn't it?

[dutchman]

My guess about Ophelia is that she was really unhinged after her brothers death, and the process to become a Claymore didn't help any. She became a monster because she lacked any and all emaphy, and its horribly fitting she didn't even realize it when she awakened, as her psyche was so twisted to begin with. In some ways she's tragic, because she's a poster child for the quote "In the hunting of monsters be careful you do not become one yourself."

Oh and her name was kinda fitting for someone so crazy, wasn't it?

Many thanks for bringing to my attention that her name had a possible deeper meaning.

You mean that the manga artist is probably reffering to the Ophelia from 'The Tragedy of Hamlet, Prince of Denmark'? (wikipedia for the win:heh: )

If this is indeed the case we have to do a research on all the claymore names we suspect;)

I tried a search for Galatea (the nr. 3 ranked claymore) however the possible match in Greek mythology was a bit wierd and didn't quite fit what I have read/heard about her so I dismissed it.

[Child_of_Sierra]

Hmm, pairing up Claire with someone like Ophelia reinforces Mirai's theory that the organization wants team VI dead. I'm a bit worried that the others are being led to similar high risk missions. Hope they do get to meet again cause it would be so much better fighting as a team.

[Xellos-_^]

Ophelia does remind you of demented version of Priscilla. Also its interesting to note just like Priscilla, she bears deep physiological scars

All the the Claymores have their scars, some deeper then others. Remember all those girls were orphens of Yoma attacks and most likely were sold/given to the organization by the surviving villagers.

For Illene's arm i re-read that part twice just make sure i didn't miss read anything. It was one of hell of a surprise as i was wondering how Clare can gain more power without Claymore turning into a DBZ with all the power ups.

[Claymore_Obsessed]

By the way, Irene had incredible guts.
Cutting off your remaining arm! truly heroic

[Xellos-_^]

By the way, Irene had incredible guts.
Cutting off your remaining arm! truly heroic


Like she said, she doesn't need it anymore. She has no intention of going after priscilla and she can regrow a normal type arm in a few months. But yeah it did take a lot of guts and stuff to do that.

[Seska]

A normal human will die on blood loss, but for a Claymore it's nothing :).
Perhaps she sensed the hunter.

[Kinematics]

So, do you think Ilena's actually dead? Doing it offscreen leaves open the usual issue of bringing the character back later (see pretty much every US comic character in existance). And, wierd as it is, I could almost believe Ilena capable of fighting off Rafaela (at least long enough to escape and re-mask her aura) even without any arms.

However, I think she did allow Rafaela to kill her. In her final discussions with Clare, she reiterated the statement that Clare was the only proof that Teresa ever existed. Ilena seemed to have come to empathize with Teresa during that final hunt, and I think she was willing to consign her memory, her 'proof of existance', to Clare.

It wasn't just a matter of giving Clare a power-up or restoring her ability to fight that made her give Clare her arm; ever since the day Ilena fought Priscilla, she had been in a state of limbo, a half-existance where she was neither human nor youma nor Claymore. She wanted to find for herself the smile that she saw on Teresa that last day. Clare gave that to her, and presented the opportunity that Ilena, too, could be remembered beyond merely being a discarded tool of the Organization, if only for a little while.

Ilena's questioning of Rafaela at the end lends itself to that a bit as well. She's no longer concerned about her own proof of existance, and allows herself to discard some of the strict behavioural requirements, instead letting her curiosity enjoy a bit of freedom.


On Ophelia, she does seem extremely childlike. Consider how she looked when she said, "Let's play a game!" just before cutting Clare's legs off. It was just like a little kid, all bright and cheerful and happy. Children can be incredibly cruel, and I suspect that the young Ophelia was one to torment other kids. Considering her obsession with her brother, I'm reminded of Nanami from Utena, and I would not be surprised if she would have grown up to be something like that in more normal circumstances.

However, the events that led to her becoming a Claymore seem to have stunted any further emotional growth, while at the same time giving her enormous physical power that she could use on pretty much anyone she pleased (as long as noone tattled on her; no witnesses, no problems).

[Daniel E.]

Like she said, she doesn't need it anymore. She has no intention of going after priscilla and she can regrow a normal type arm in a few months. But yeah it did take a lot of guts and stuff to do that.

You know, I actually though she was lying about that.

Maybe she knew other Claymores would feel her presence if she started to use her powers (Clare's training) and maybe she didn't care about them coming to hunt her down.

I mean, if she could regrow the arm that she gave to Clare, why hasn't she regenerated the other one?

If you ask me, that whole scene felt like a sort of apology from her for trying to kill Teresa all those years ago.

[Kinematics]

On Priscilla

This is something that really struck me a while back, while I was rereading the various bits about the hunt of Teresa. While it's not immediately obvious because of the world setting, I think Priscilla's character archtype is meant to be that of the typical shojou magical girl heroine.

Consider: She's cute and clumsy while still fighting well (beating the entire alley of youma when she first shows up). While she's fairly strong right now (ie: when we first meet her), she has the potential to become far stronger than any other Claymore, ever. She's completely obsessed with the fact that Teresa 'broke the rules', that what Teresa did wasn't 'right'. She's everything you'd expect a magical girl to be.

Unfortunately, in this world that single-minded focus is a detriment rather than a benefit, which leads to her unfortunate downfall. But it has made me wonder: is Claymore really a magical girl story gone horribly wrong?

[Seska]

She sacrifice for Clare. Because of the training, both of them release Youma power. She knows that someday one will sensed it, and go investigate it.
She sensed the hunter, because of that she give her right Arm to Clare, because there was no more time for her to continue training. And the rest of "grown own Arm" in months, was for fooling Clare and calm her down to take the arm and left. So she stays behind, to hinder the hunter to go after Clare, too.

Clare was more fit for Battle, unlike her. She says that. Because of that she teaching Clare her technique. And for regenerating. The Pact of the 4... read them carefully again. There is a hint what state you must have or pass trough, to regenerate that much body.And i don#t think that she surpass the line, like Clare.

Well, my thoughts on that...

[cajunman380]

on IIlena

For me its a toss up wheter shes alive or dead. If she were dead, why wouldnt they show a scene of her being killed (unless it was in a fashback in the future). To me the thing about IIlena was that she knew touble was coming and she figured she would help clare face her enemy buy giving her the best tools available. But it wasnt just that. I think IIlene spoke her true feelings to clare after giving her the arm. She was envious of theresa. Despite the fact that she died, theresa got to experience human emotion, something that IIena apparently was never able to> I think the arm is something that can be expressed in two ways. A tool to help clare in battle but also a parting gift and IIlenes way of being remembered by somebody. I think even if she did die, she wouldnt die regretting becaus eshe was able to leave bhind a legacy to someone however insignificant it may be. Think how may claymores have died in the past wihout someone ever remembering their name.... Its a powerful thingin this manga.

on Rafaela... I would klike to think that she is still alive. She hasnt really contributed anything of significance to the story and all the focus on her in the past would be kind of wasteful. I will wait and see though.


On the DBZ comparison... Claymore isnt nowhere near the DBZ comparison people. Yes clare got a new arm, but she cant control it fully and it doesnt exaclty make her invincible. Look how it barely scratched daft. The rigardes thing. yes she got more power but she was on the brink of awakening and it took a fellow claymores life to bring her back. DOnt forget that lately the battle shave been emphasizing teamwork and such which few manga do so well. Plus remmber that the bad guys they face are retardedly powerful and i mean retardedly. They will need all the power they can get...believe it. Oh and one more thing. when people die in this manga..... THEY STAY DEAD...thank you

[Kinematics]

On the number 4

There have been various points during the initial threads where people refer to Clare's team who went to fight the awakened male as the "Fab Four" or some such. While at this point it's a bit tenuous to call them a team, they're definitely all tied together, and thinking of them as such seems natural.

However a well-known Japanese superstition revolves around the number 4. Since one of the ways it can be pronounced sounds like the word for 'death', it's considered a bad or unlucky number ("You have a most unfortunate face."). In pretty much every other anime I can think of, teams are comprised of two (Gunsmith Cats, Dirty Pair), three (Steel Angel Kurumi, Read or Dream) or five (Sailor Moon, Voltron-type shows) members. The only case of 4 that I can think of is Bubblegum Crisis.

While there are parallels that can be drawn with the Bubblegum Crisis characters (Miria seems very similar to Sylia, and likewise Helen to Priss; Clare is somewhat similar to Linna, but any similarities between Denev and Nene seem tenuous at best), the more overarching idea seems to be a deliberate use of the secondary concept of death, and perhaps bad luck in general, that the author wants to convey. We don't have any "defeat the bad guy and go home for a cup o' tea" moments here, and such is very unlikely to happen given the atmosphere of the story.


However, to return to the idea of a magical girl team analogue (or any team, really), we already have enough of an idea of the characters to fit them into pretty easy-to-identify roles:

Miria: Leader; intelligence gathering and strategy.
Helen: Aggressive, reckless direct power.
Denev: Defensive; the shield. Potentially the 'comic relief', if such can be applied to this world (cf: tends to hassle and make trouble for other Claymores).
Clare: Wild card; unusual power that can potentially trump whatever the enemy throws out, but difficult to use and train.


On name origins

Curious about the names, I was looking up the meanings and origins. Bit of peculiarity: St. Clare of Assisi is the patron saint of Televisions.

[cajunman380]

On the number 4

There have been various points during the initial threads where people refer to Clare's team who went to fight the awakened male as the "Fab Four" or some such. While at this point it's a bit tenuous to call them a team, they're definitely all tied together, and thinking of them as such seems natural.

I was the one throwing around that phrase at first and its not just for tht reason only. For one thing they have survived longer than any other claymores shown so far (panel time wise). They are all connected in a sense (semi awakened) and they are all unique considering they are claymores in the sense that they are atypical from the claymores we have been shown in the past. Oh i also called them that cuz its easier then referring to them all by their names individually so its up to you how you phrase them. to me they ar ethe fab 4.:)

However a well-known Japanese superstition revolves around the number 4. Since one of the ways it can be pronounced sounds like the word for 'death', it's considered a bad or unlucky number ("You have a most unfortunate face."). In pretty much every other anime I can think of, teams are comprised of two (Gunsmith Cats, Dirty Pair), three (Steel Angel Kurumi, Read or Dream) or five (Sailor Moon, Voltron-type shows) members. The only case of 4 that I can think of is Bubblegum Crisis.

There is a lot when it comes to japanese culture. however it sup to the author to decide how to incorporate it and wheter it serves any relevance. Truth be told there are many manga and anime that use the number 4. Konjiki no gash bell, Naruto, Bleach, One piece. You name it, it sthere. I can extrapolate upon request if you like. Though truthfully after the timeskip, you can refer to clares group as seven so that sort of falls into the safe zone. Again i use th efab 4 for ease of convenience


While there are parallels that can be drawn with the Bubblegum Crisis characters (Miria seems very similar to Sylia, and likewise Helen to Priss; Clare is somewhat similar to Linna, but any similarities between Denev and Nene seem tenuous at best), the more overarching idea seems to be a deliberate use of the secondary concept of death, and perhaps bad luck in general, that the author wants to convey. We don't have any "defeat the bad guy and go home for a cup o' tea" moments here, and such is very unlikely to happen given the atmosphere of the story.

Umm i disagree. first of all claymore and bubblegum crisis are two VERY different series altogether, different generes and themes. Its like comparing aplles to oranges so the character similarites while subtle arent even close. Secondly, your sligtly mistaken about what the author wants to convey.Theres death no doubt, but theres also hope. Its a story about women who are considered monsters and their struggle to find their humanity and purpose. Its a story about loss and overcoming loss. About changing the old system and finding new goals. Its a story of friendship and overcoming struggle. The author made it clear at the beginning that a claymores life was a living hell and the early chapters showed just how bleak a claymores life can get. However we later see clkaymores who literally defy long established notions, overcome impossible odds and find reasons to keep moving forward in a world where they are considered as monsters or disposable machines. The author constantly inroduces new concepts into the story and while the atmosphere is still dark theres that sense of hope and adventure that you get when reaidng the later chapters that the earlier ones didnt have.



However, to return to the idea of a magical girl team analogue (or any team, really), we already have enough of an idea of the characters to fit them into pretty easy-to-identify roles:

i made some adjustments

Miria: Leader; Detective and strategist.
Helen: Aggressive, Passionate and comic relief.
Denev: helens counterpart
Clare: MAIN CHARACTER

ill add more later

[Kinematics]

there are many manga and anime that use the number 4

Yes, I'm sure I've missed a few (though I'd disagree on Naruto; that seemed far more focused on teams of three, unless you count the instructor as part of it). Numerical analysis, though, tends to need to be pretty superficial in this kind of comparison since it's very easy to dig into a bazillion little variants.

first of all claymore and bubblegum crisis are two VERY different series altogether, different generes and themes. Its like comparing aplles to oranges so the character similarites while subtle arent even close.

I realize that they're very different series, but it's more a description of a meta-analysis of their roles and archtypes. 'Teams' tend to need a certain balance among their characters to be believable as working well together. If there's noone working strategy and tactics you expect them to fall apart when their individual choices collide. A team filled entirely with either aggressive or defensive types is likewise ill-equipped to deal with the variety of situations likely to be thrown their way.

As such, there are certain 'types' that you can expect to look for, though those types vary based on the size of the team. In a small team, each person needs to be more of a generalist, while in a large team each one can be more of a specialist. The only team size that I could think of that matched this particular size (due to, I assumed, the peculiarity of chosing an 'unlucky' number) happens to match fairly well with the roles that get applied, and therefor I can see parallels between the two setups.

Bear in mind that my information is limited to what's been released in the US so far (per the thread), so my assigning, for example, comic relief to Denev was based only on rough extrapolation.

Secondly, your sligtly mistaken about what the author wants to convey.Theres death no doubt, but theres also hope. Its a story about women who are considered monsters and their struggle to find their humanity and purpose. Its a story about loss and overcoming loss. About changing the old system and finding new goals. Its a story of friendship and overcoming struggle.

Oh, of course. It's a rather bland story that has only a single theme. I was merely trying to note a correlation with that particular aspect of the story's themes.


Denev: helens counterpart

In what way? That doesn't really describe her role.

Clare: MAIN CHARACTER

That in itself doesn't describe her role within the team, merely her role in the story. Main characters tend to be the wild card types anyway.
Edit: Or agressive/reckless types, which serves the same purpose. However recklessness is likely to get people killed in this world. They also depend too much on luck for my tastes.

[Zu Ra]

All the the Claymores have their scars, some deeper then others. Remember all those girls were orphens of Yoma attacks and most likely were sold/given to the organization by the surviving villagers.

All Claymores do bare deep scars Ophelia and Priscilla stand out from the herd . Both take immense pleasure in killing Yoma maybe a little weight on their chest is lifted every time they did so.

Priscilla is a wackjob and Ophelia best described was a demented sadist. Both did have child like innocence but Priscilla IMO has more of it as she even apologizes before attempting to subdue / kill Teresa


By the way, Irene had incredible guts.
Cutting off your remaining arm! truly heroic

Has Ilena's death been confimed ? most likely she is dead but I did really like the chracter

[Kinematics]

Has Ilena's death been confimed ?

Not in what's been released in English so far.

[Child_of_Sierra]

no confirmation but given the businesslike attitude of No. 5 I doubt she'd be alive.

She did make an interesting observation that Raphaela is stronger than her rank gives her credit for. I knew it was weird that they'd start Clare's struggles with no.4 but apparently Ophelia really ought to be the weakest of the top 5. Mirai also commented before that there was a huge gap between 5 and 6, is this because of Raphaela camping on the 5th rank instead of opting to go up (maybe even as No.1)? would the gap not be so wide in the case of Ophelia?

[Zu Ra]

no confirmation but given the businesslike attitude of No. 5 I doubt she'd be alive.

Yeah I share the same opnion I was hoping for Shonen-Plotkai to save her but when its put that way her chances are zilch I guess : (

[Anh_Minh]

Maybe she chose to use her secret technique: the lightning legs.

[Kinematics]

Long bit of speculation and theorizing:


After seeing episode 6, and giving some thought as to the whys and wherefores of how they went about executing Teresa, I realized there were some peculiarities in how things were treated in the organization.

Sample set: Elena, Teresa, Priscilla, Ophelia, Ilena.

Elena is the 'black card' sample. She recognized that she was losing control of her youma-half, and a single Claymore was sent to kill her. The Claymore in question was, of course, Clare, the weakest of the organization. Given that it was done voluntarily, and the failing Claymore chooses who they want to be killed by, it's understandable that only one was sent. The repercussions should that single Claymore fail (eg: they arrived too late and have to fight a fully youma'd-out Claymore and lose) are not clear, but the implication from talks about Priscilla seem to indicate that there will be no further hunt.

So, rule 1: a Claymore may voluntarily accept death.

Teresa is the 'broke the rules' sample. She killed humans, and, regardless of reason for doing so, was marked for death. I don't have the manga handy, but in the anime episode she was being monitored by her 'agent' at the time of the incident, and previous conversations imply that he's constantly monitoring her. Ruble's (sp?) presence in the town that Clare went to before moving up to kill Elena seem to support the probability that agents tend to keep a pretty close watch on their wards, though their absense in the incident with the male awakened one is something that should be noted for future reference.

In any case, when Teresa was marked for death, 4-5 fodder Claymores were sent to kill her. Teresa apparently made no attempt to escape, and generally seemed to be on the verge of accepting her punishment, save for her new ties to Clare and the uncertainty of Clare's future. In defying the organization, the full force brute squad was sent in (numbers 2-5) to take her down, and Teresa seemed to accept the probability that they would continue to hunt her for the rest of her life.

Rule 2: A Claymore may not break the rules of the organization, on pain of death.

I'm going to skip ahead to Ilena. In volume 7 we find that she has gone into hiding after the Priscilla incident. When she uses her abilities to train Clare, she becomes detectable again, and an agent (Rafaela) is immediately dispatched to execute her. This is at least 10 years after the initial incident, possibly longer. This implies two things: one, there is no statute of limitations on an execution order; two: there is no way out of the organization save for death or awakening.

Caveat: some bits I've read about future volumes indicates that there may be a "retired from active duty" status, but I'm not sure of the details there. If there is such a state, I have to wonder why Ilena did not make use of it instead of simply going into hiding. Since she did not, I have to assume that any conditions for doing so did not apply to her situation.

Further ramifications: Since they cannot simply "quit" being Claymores, and since use of their powers always pushes them towards awakening, and since this is a known consequence of their continued active duties, the Organization must be considered complicit in the creation of Awakened Beings. The cessation of using males for Claymores is thus most likely due to the rate of Awakening being too high to keep up with their overall plans.

Rule 3: A Claymore may not quit being a Claymore, on pain of death.

Which brings us to Priscilla, the 'awakened' sample. While her transformation into an Awakened Being was unfortunate, what is more of interest is the reponse Ruble (sp) gives to Clare when asked about how the Organization would deal with a request to eliminate Priscilla. Essentially, it was "an Awakened Being is not our problem unless someone asks for help." More to the point, no specific attempt is being made to eliminate her at this point in time. She 'left' the Organization, and is now a being the Organization is purportedly specifically in the business of killing, yet the previous two rules seem to no longer apply.

Rule 4: An Awakened Claymore is no longer subject to the rules of the Organization, except insofar as money may be involved.

And finally we have Ophelia, the 'psychotic killer' sample. First, she delights in killing, regardless of who it is: youma, Awakened, human or Claymore. It's very difficult to imagine that this is not a known behaviour to the Organization. Particularly at issue is the question of who and where her agent is during the events where she met Clare. In most other cases we've seen so far, the agent usually rather close by. The exception being the incident with the male Awakened. While there are certain survivability issues at work there, there is also the possibility that the agents specifically do not want to be near an Awakened Being for other, specific reasons.

In any case, Ophelia reveals that the only way she can be brought up for punishment is if someone specifically reports her. Lack of witnesses means no punishment, and is a loophole she's happy to take advantage of. It's quite possible that she takes additional delight in the fact that the agents stay away from Awakened Beings, so that when she goes to hunt them she's free of their particular supervision. However the fact that the Organization sent Clare to help her, after the events which seem to imply that they are intent on quietly eliminating certain troublemakers, means that they accept the very high likelyhood that Clare will not return from the mission with Ophelia. It's a very convenient setup in that there's noone who could specifically dispute the 'open' record that this is a legitimate mission.

It does illustrate that there is a distinct difference between the 'public' face and the 'hidden' face of the Organization with respect to their rules. Since Teresa's actions were witnessed publicly, she had to be punished. Since Ophelia's were not, she can get away with it.


Still, the piece that just does not fit is Ilena's execution order. Her only action that seems to have caused that order is to abandon the Organization and go into hiding, returning to living a more 'human' life. Similar to Teresa's situation, she apparently wants to return to being more 'human', which is contrary to the implied goals of the organization, the production of more Awakened Beings. Why is that? And is it related to why the Organization sent Clare's group on a suicide mission? All of them had 'awakened' without turning into monsters; they retained their humanity.

So, time for a few speculative questions.

What does the Organization gain when the Claymores awaken? And what does it lose when a Claymore awakens but keeps her humanity? Since they must lose something if they are that intent on killing them.

Since the organization occasionally sends dispatches to deal with Awakened Beings, are the Awakened also being manipulated at a higher level (clearing out troublemakers or those who are intractable to whatever 'arrangements' the Organization wants)? Ruble explains that they weigh the Organization's resources against the difficulty of the job before accepting, which means they could decline the job if it is to their advantage. If the Awakened are being manipulated, to what end purpose? This is probably unanswerable given the current release of the story.


This needs more thought.

[Anh_Minh]

I think the Organization uses Awakened Ones as predators for Claymores. It's thus in their interests to keep the numbers within some bounds. Too few, and they never have one handy when they need it. Too many and they're in danger of being annihilated.

Awakened Ones are a threat - maybe the only potent enough - to keep the Claymores cooperative. Without them, they might be tempted to disperse and, either play wandering knights slaying randomly encountered youmas for free, or just leading quiet lives. Or maybe even criminal ones. Awakened Ones mean they have to coordinate, and that means that the Organization will have enough pull to, say, send Claymores after other, more rebellious Claymores.

As for the Claymores who reverted from Awakening - I'm going to go out on a limb and say, there's a chance they might be able to learn how to go back and forth between normal and Awakened state, all the while keeping their human heart. And they might turn into the most dangerous thing for the Organization: a rival. Imagine a bunch of them do it. Imagine they can teach others how to do so. They could tell other Claymores "Hey! Join us, and learn how to go toe to toe with Awakened Ones - one and one. We'll treat you better than those bastards at the organization because we're like you. And we could do a much better work of ridding the world of youmas."

The Organization couldn't even send Claymores after them without risking giving them more converts.

Claymores are uninterested in money - they could do the work for much cheaper. Instead of waiting for requests, they could go on a real crusade to kill all the youmas.

[Negativedark]

I also interpreted some of the diolouge between Miria and the male awakened in volume 6 in such a way that he might be working for the organization. It just sounds like it to me. He obviously knew they were coming, and the line about how he contineues surviving by killing those who were sent to kill him, makes it sound like he could have been working with the organization. My theory is that he kills potential trouble makers and in exchange the organization doesn't send in someone like Ophelia. The big bads of the awakened like Prisscilla have severed all ties to the organization, and would thus be uncontorollable.

[lousy]

Im not sure if im posting in the correct thread(there are so darn many)

regarding
Caveat: some bits I've read about future volumes indicates that there may be a "retired from active duty" status, but I'm not sure of the details there. If there is such a state, I have to wonder why Ilena did not make use of it instead of simply going into hiding. Since she did not, I have to assume that any conditions for doing so did not apply to her situation.

there is an example in the later chapters that a member did 'retire'. as in, stop doing anything for the organisation officially for quite some time. and that is ofcourse... off topic cuz this is only for the translated parts. but just to let you know.

So actually the organisation's rule on claymores that withdraw is actually quite, unknown.
like Ilene, who could have just withdrawn from the organisation instead of going into hiding. and like clare, who decided to go search for raki and quit the org and had to be executed(by galatea).

why the org has to kill them? I have absolutely no idea.

another question that is worth pondering is:
in vol er 11 when isley and priscilla and raki were counting the remaining lights, they said that the last 2 lights were much stronger than the others.

any speculations? we know that miria is definitely one. the next nearest rank is probably deneve at 15th. there is no way that there could be two amongst them that was significantly stronger than the rest. esp considering all the leaders of the northern campaign teams were already killed.

clare?


I think the Organization uses Awakened Ones as predators for Claymores. It's thus in their interests to keep the numbers within some bounds. Too few, and they never have one handy when they need it. Too many and they're in danger of being annihilated.
actually in vol 10/11 one of the black men(i can never remember their names) said that claymores that live for a moderate period of time is the best. i doubt that the org needs to kill claymores to keep the numbers within bounds. we know that they have a store of "claymores-in-training" that they use to up the number at any time. the numbers is not the issue at all. the main issue is the rebellious nature of some claymores. and yea i guess they do use awakened beings to remove these.

like the male awakened being the team encountered(the first one) said that he killed all the claymores that the organisation sent to him. meaning that the org has been sending claymores to him. yet they all failed. despite, they still sent a team comprising of what, a number 47? thus we can conclude that the previous claymores sent were probably sent to be executed also, which meant that the organisation definitely uses awakened beings to kill hte claymores.

[Anh_Minh]

I was speaking about the number of Awakened Ones, not of Claymores. If there are too few, they won't lose Claymores fast enough and the Claymores will be allowed to get old and troublesome.

[Kinematics]

Just a note: that's getting into stuff that's well beyond what's released in English, which should be the limit of what's expounded on in this thread. I don't read the scanlations, and what I do know of the future volumes is mainly incidental. I'd like to keep it that way.

[lousy]

sorry. was trying to keep everything i wrote to at most vol 11..anyway vol 12 english just came out

[Kinematics]

I should clarify: "what's released in English" refers to the official release by Viz, not to English translations of what's only been officially released in Japanese. Please re-read the first post of the thread.

[Tempest35]

Yeah, Viz's CLAYMORE is only at vol 7. Right when she's still fighting Ophelia I belive. So nothing past that.

[G. Zeus]

Hey, has anybody else realized that the claymores resemble Morning Musume (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_musume) to a certain extent? Insanely large all-girl group, frequent sub-group shuffling, very fast turnover rate with periodical graduations, different talents and personalities...

There's also the set of inflexible rules which seem to have no exceptions:
Teresa killed a few human bandits and she got fired.
Kago Ai (http://japundit.com/archives/2007/03/27/5481/) was caught smoking and she got fired.


Just give 'em a few months, I'll expect a video of Hare Hare Yukai (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2HpAE-QcQA) featuring Clare, Miria, Deneve, and Helen.

Ooki na yume&yume SUKI deshou?
:heh:

[Seska]

Yeah, Viz's CLAYMORE is only at vol 7. Right when she's still fighting Ophelia I believe. So nothing past that.

Jip, as far as i know (afaik) this threat here, is for the Official English Manga. Published by Viz's.

What you read after Vol 7 are "fan made" translations, and should not posted here in this thread...

[Claymore_Obsessed]

Just give 'em a few months, I'll expect a video of Hare Hare Yukai (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2HpAE-QcQA) featuring Clare, Miria, Deneve, and Helen.

Ooki na yume&yume SUKI deshou?
:heh:

That would be fun :D
Maybe we'll get Motteke! Sailor Fuku too? ^^

[HinaThePrince]

That would be fun :D
Maybe we'll get Motteke! Sailor Fuku too? ^^

That's exactly what I've been thinking for the last month or so. D:

[JaeEleutheria]

I just picked up Vol. 8 of Viz's translation from Barnes and Noble yesterday. The official release date is June 5 though.

[NoSanninWa]

I just picked up Vol. 8 of Viz's translation from Barnes and Noble yesterday. The official release date is June 5 though.
You are one lucky guy. I'd like to remind you that until June 5th you can't post a word about it in this thread.

[JaeEleutheria]

I wasn't going to. I just was saying that some stores release them early and that you can keep your eyes open for it.

[Negativedark]

Hopefully my local Walden will have it on or by the release date. If not I can get it ordered from there, and have it in a week or less.

[Kinematics]

Got volume 8 in the mail today. Perfect timing!

Not much in the way of answers for my earlier speculation, but did bring up some other interesting tidbits.

Despite everything, I'm sorry to see Ophelia go. She's kind of grown on me; after Clare and Teresa, she's jockying with Ilena and Helen for third favorite :)

When she awakened, she still seemed to be very strongly 'human' in her thought process (twisted as that was). The hunger for guts was more like a "Hmm. I haven't eaten all day and I'm really in the mood for Mexican tonight." than an "Arrr! I'm an inhuman monster and you humans are nothing more than snacks now!" reaction. It was just a craving, not an overwhelming desire, to the point that she didn't even realize she had awakened.

More, though, in the fight with Clare, she was able to isolate her "human" parts away from the rest of her body. In doing so, it opened her up to suppressed memories and emotions that she had previously forgotten. Everything about her other than the unnatural cravings remained almost the same between her Claymore state and her Awakened state. Her attitude, her taunting and testing of Clare, her (rather vicious) little games. Even after changing to another species altogether, she still retained what was human about herself.

And she still wants to play a game. :)

Now the question is, did Clare take the arm that went flying (or the arm that was left, since Ophelia was holding on with her left arm) when she got to the end of Ophelia and attach it to herself? Rather grisly thing to do, but at the same time.. was Ophelia less worthy of being remembered than Ilena? For everything Ophelia did, she also, in just a short time, helped Clare really push herself, strain to her limits, focus on her control, and in the end had to prove that she was 'worthy' of fighting Priscilla in Ophelia's stead.

Still, probably not a good idea to take on the flesh of an Awakened, even if it is the human part of it. If she did, though, it'd be rather disturbing to think that she's keeping the memories of all her past friends (or maybe family would be a better term) (Teresa, Ilena, Ophelia; no Elena, though :( ) very close to her.

Next, we get to see the old codgers who run the place, er, Organization. It was a bit hard to follow the conversations, but I get the sneaking suspicion that Rubel would not be entirely surprised to find out that Clare had beaten Ophelia. He definitely seems the type that knows way too much about what's going on. Plus he doesn't have the bad fashion taste that the rest of the agents have. None of them have cool round sunglasses or a proper hat! :)

Also, the top dog, president, whatever.. His hands and the back of his head look verrrry much like a Claymore that had their body partly transformed. It could just be old age, but it didn't look wrinkly (like the high priest in the church), but veined.

And Riful. Woot. What can you say? That's one creepy little girl.

Might be a bit of plot contrivance to let that one Claymore survive to call for help, but I suspect they 'let' her escape so that more Claymores would show up to be experimented on. If she was the weakest of the group, there was every reason to suspect that she wouldn't be of any use on awakening.

Interesting bit of info on Galatea's powers. Very curious, and potentially very useful for the partially-awakened squad. Obviously she's no particular threat to Riful since Riful understands her powers and knows exactly how to counter them. Also obvious is that there's no way Clare and Galatea would win if they tried to fight their way out right now. But Clare's 'mission'....

Riful's rather put out by the northern awakened one's activities. Her own attempt to create an army of awakened is obviously not going too well. Part of the reason she needs them to awaken, though, is so that they'll join her side. Now she has someone in front of her who is actively antagonistic towards her enemy, and (while she doesn't know it yet, it could easily be brought to light) is not currently under the purview of the Organization.

Speculation of probable direction of plot: In exchange for letting them go (and Galatea will definitely want to be let go; she's a prime candidate for Riful's testing), Galatea acts as escort for Clare in her attempt to eliminate Priscilla. That would be a major coup in favor of Riful in case of a war. They probably get to take the injured number 9 with them for whatever reason (she's not exactly prime hostage material, though Riful may want to continue her experiments on her).

However, what would Riful gain in exchange as security that they'd make good on their promise? Clare (I think it was Clare) has said in the past that Claymores don't lie because they have no reason to ever do so. Might they swear their allegiance to Riful?

More tidbits about Priscilla; most especially that she never harmed any of the young girls (notably including Ophelia) in any village she ravaged. That lends itself to supporting why she walked past Clare, without truly explaining anything. Why? Is it an artifact of her own childhood that blinds her, some remnant of her former ideals, or is it something about Clare's presense during her awakening?

__________________
Let's Play a Game!

[HinaThePrince]

More tidbits about Priscilla; most especially that she never harmed any of the young girls (notably including Ophelia) in any village she ravaged.

Where did you get THAT from? Riful said there was only one girl Prissyface didn't hurt.

BTW, love the "I'm really in the mood for Mexican" line. :P

[cors8]

Now the question is, did Clare take the arm that went flying (or the arm that was left, since Ophelia was holding on with her left arm) when she got to the end of Ophelia and attach it to herself? Rather grisly thing to do, but at the same time.. was Ophelia less worthy of being remembered than Ilena? For everything Ophelia did, she also, in just a short time, helped Clare really push herself, strain to her limits, focus on her control, and in the end had to prove that she was 'worthy' of fighting Priscilla in Ophelia's stead.



Clare didn't take Ophelia's arm. She had 2 arms when she was fighting her awakened form. She already had Ilena's arm. What Ophelia left Clare was her will and determination to kill Priscilla.

It's rather sad how they all have horrible pasts though. I wonder what Helen, Deneve, Galatea and Miria's pasts are like.

[HinaThePrince]

It's rather sad how they all have horrible pasts though. I wonder what Helen, Deneve, Galatea and Miria's pasts are like.

Yeah, I'm especially dying to know what happened to Helen as a child to make her develop a personality like that. I think she's one of those "Really shitty stuff happened to me so I'm going to act happy and lively to make up for it!" people. She could easily fit in the cast of One Piece, really. :P

[Kinematics]

Where did you get THAT from? Riful said there was only one girl Prissyface didn't hurt.

Um.. Ok, I'm going to have to go home and read it again, but I'm pretty certain that in the last handful of pages in the book Riful specifically stated that not a single young girl was hurt by Priscilla, while she killed everyone else in town, and that it was almost like she couldn't even see them.

Oh, and a bit that I forgot about earlier: When Ophelia dies and her hair comes loose, she looks remarkably like Teresa.


cors8: I agree that that's most likely. On the surface it certainly appears that way. Still, now that the author opened the possibility of limb transference, there's always going to be that little niggling doubt in the back of my head, since it just jumped from Ophelia dying to 3 months later in another town.

[cors8]

cors8: I agree that that's most likely. On the surface it certainly appears that way. Still, now that the author opened the possibility of limb transference, there's always going to be that little niggling doubt in the back of my head, since it just jumped from Ophelia dying to 3 months later in another town.

Well consider this. The arm Clare cuts off is Ophelia's right arm. Since Clare already has Ilena's right arm, then it's pointless to attach Ophelia's. Also, we haven't been shown any special ability of Ophelia's that would require Clare to take her arm, unlike with Ilena.

After all, as shown in the previous volumes, Quicksword is more powerful than any of Ophelia's abilities.

[Anh_Minh]

edit: nvm.

[Kinematics]

Ok, here it is. Page 187:

They say that in the towns she attacked, she completely destroyed everything.

Yet she never laid a hand on the young girls.

She's a strange one. Even though she tears out the guts of everyone else in the village...

She doesn't make a single wound on the young girls.

It's almost like...

She doesn't even notice the young girls at all.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Ok, here it is. Page 187:


It is possible that Viz mistranlated some of those lines, but who knows maybe the scanlators who translated it before hand got it wrong. :P

[Kinematics]

Well, given that there's apparently a difference in belief on what's said there, can someone post what the common scanlation translation for that page is? And maybe the original Japanese as well?


Edit: Side note - After the little speech, Clare seems to completely lose it, desperately wanting to kill Priscilla. In either take (Priscilla only ever spared one girl or Priscilla never killed any girls), I'm having a hard time linking the thought process that may provoke that reaction. Anyone have any thoughts on what the 'realization' that Clare had was at that point?

[HinaThePrince]

I can PM you the translation/Japanese if you'd like, I tried posting it here and got warned. \:


Edit: Side note - After the little speech, Clare seems to completely lose it, desperately wanting to kill Priscilla. In either take (Priscilla only ever spared one girl or Priscilla never killed any girls), I'm having a hard time linking the thought process that may provoke that reaction. Anyone have any thoughts on what the 'realization' that Clare had was at that point?

It was because she realized that Riful was talking about Prissyface, and now Clare knew where she is, probably.

[Kinematics]

Ah, of course, the delayed realization. As a reader I can guess who Riful was referring to from the first line mentioned, but for Clare it might take her a minute to realize who was meant.

And sure, a PM would be fine. Disappointed that the rules don't allow for a public comparative analysis of a one-page extract.

[Kinematics]

While there is ambiguity in the original wording (as provided in PM), I'll add one extra note: Ophelia survived Priscilla's rampages. If there was "only one girl" who was spared, then by strict logic Ophelia should have been killed.

Of course it could theoretically be that Ophelia is the one she refers to, and no one actually knew about Clare, but that seems unlikely from a storytelling perspective.

Therefore I'm going to go with Viz's version that all young girls were spared. Makes a bit more sense that there's some sort of mental hangup in Priscilla herself than that there's some magical "don't eat me" field around chibi-Clare.

[Mandrake]

nobody but the organisation might have known about the final confrontation between teresa and priscilla. It was Riful who said it, how would she know of the fight? She probably only knew of the rampages that commenced AFTER piscilla awakenned.

[HinaThePrince]

While there is ambiguity in the original wording (as provided in PM), I'll add one extra note: Ophelia survived Priscilla's rampages. If there was "only one girl" who was spared, then by strict logic Ophelia should have been killed.

Of course it could theoretically be that Ophelia is the one she refers to, and no one actually knew about Clare, but that seems unlikely from a storytelling perspective.

Therefore I'm going to go with Viz's version that all young girls were spared. Makes a bit more sense that there's some sort of mental hangup in Priscilla herself than that there's some magical "don't eat me" field around chibi-Clare.

Riful said "that little girl[/s] only had not one scratch". Which means she can't be referring to Ophelia for two reasons:

1) Ophelia is not a little girl, she's a young woman.
2) Ophelia was beaten nearly to death, I wouldn't call that "not one scratch". Perhaps Prissyface left her alone when she saw she's about to awaken?

[Kinematics]

1) Ophelia is not a little girl, she's a young woman.

I'm referring to the flashback/memories she has of when Priscilla killed her brother; she seemed to be a little girl then.

2) Ophelia was beaten nearly to death, I wouldn't call that "not one scratch".

Are you sure about that? I lent vol 8 to a friend tonight, but I don't recall anything like that. Checked what was shown in vol 7 and don't see anything that would indicate that either.

Perhaps Prissyface left her alone when she saw she's about to awaken?

Are we talking about the same time period? Ophelia, as a young girl, in a village that Priscilla tore apart during the period she first awakened, looong before Ophelia was at any risk of awakening herself.

[Shinen]

Edit: now the posts don't get deleted so the discussion seems to be alright? :confused: Then to clear this up, after taking a look at the japanese text and wikipedia, it is clearly a general statement. There is at least no "only one little girl" or "only that little girl" in the original text and while theoretically it can mean "only little girl/s", it isn't explicit at all and you'd normally understand it as "only little girls in general" . And then wikipedia also states "girls" in general.

What do you think is the reason behind that behavior? If I recall correctly Priscilla herself was a little child when her family got killed, therefore maybe inconsciously she won't kill other little girls. If she's really evil she maybe wants them to feel the same pain as she did? But there should be quite a few other Claymores wanting to seek revenge on Priscilla ^^;

[HinaThePrince]

Ahh, right! It's been a while since I read that part, so somehow I ended up thinking that Prissyface caused Ophelia to awaken. Pardon my senility. -bow-

[dutchman]

After the last episode (10) I was starting to wonder does any of you fellow-manga readers regret the fact that they had read the Claymore manga already before the anime aired?(I was on vol 6 in jan 2007)

I am actually kinda envious of the anime-only viewers because they are kept in suspense by every plot twist and agonising cliff-hangers they are shown every week. While I as an manga reader have to restrain myself constantly from trying to compare the anime with the manga version.

Which strangely lessens my enjoyement of the anime slightly. Which is of course absurd unlogically even. Since I fully acknowledge that this anime is one of the very best anime I have ever seen.

Does any of you recognise this bad habit of overly comparing the manga vs the anime? Or are you all better at keeping both entertainments seperately?

[migs.]

^
It's not really a bad habit for me, I'm entertained at reading manga and watching animes :D manga = advance, anime = with sounds and other stuffs :)

[Claymore_Obsessed]

I'm happy I am a manga reader because I fully enjoyed this suspance back in the days (and also now, for what will happen next?), so I can't complain ^^

In Claymore manga this is expecially true because there is much suspence while browsing the pages (shock panels, full pages, etc).

In general, I like manga more the anime version (I can re-read panels several times, can read faster or slower, can choose my own soundtrack, etc)

However, the anime version is excellent and very faithful, so I enjoy it as if I were re-reading the manga one more time, plus extra features being color and wonderful voice actors. ^^

[Mandrake]

I take the manga and anime as one entity, I'm not seperating the two..or you get that conflict of interest in your mind XD

[JaeEleutheria]

Personally I'm very glad I read the manga first. If I hadn't I wouldn't have found the anime as quickly. I don't regret it at all, it actually makes me look forward to the next episode more. I enjoy seeing how the story goes from one genre (manga/book) to another (anime/movie) and I find following the action a little easier to comprehend in the anime, but I also find the story fascinating.

Sometimes I wonder if the anime will catch up and surpass Viz's publications, even though the publications are going pretty fast as it is. I think it's possible.

[Shinen]

I watched the anime first and then picked up the manga afterwards. And I actually liked the manga a lot more (so far, of course), the art in the anime doesn't look as good, especially the faces of the girls and the fights seem a bit lacking. So, I only regret that I didn't pick up the manga much sooner ;)

Btw, could you tell me which spelling they chose in the English version for the members of the organization (only 3 so far I think)? Thank you :)

[dutchman]

Btw, could you tell me which spelling they chose in the English version for the members of the organization (only 3 so far I think)? Thank you :)

Well according to the VIZ volumes its as following :

1. Clares contact = Rubel

2. Teresa's contact = Orsay

3. Galatea's contact = Ermita

The volumes I got are the US/CAN versions so they are as VIZ tranlated the manga. Of course my own japanese is non-existent so I don't know if they translated it correct.

[SimplyEd]

They're about as correct as a transition from katakana can get.

[Shinen]

Thanks a lot dutchman. :bow:

Only "Rubel" bothers me a bit, since the Katakana of his name are "Ruvuru" ルヴル and not "Ruburu" ルブル or even "Ruberu" ルベル. I don't really understand why they changed it, maybe because of the pronounciation. Or does Rubel have some meaning in English? :confused:

The others seem perfectly fine though, they make sense considering the (apparent) origin of their names as well.

[SimplyEd]

Well, here's their names in japanese

ルヴル Ruvuru/Ruburu
オルセ Oruse
エルミタ Erumita

I have no idea about the licensed english versions names or why they were chosen.
Names are usually a matter of great debates.
The way from Ruvuru to Rubel is actually not that big, especially when you speak it fast.
This can be even more daunting when you translate from japanese to a different language, apart from english. It could, for example, be a common word borrowed from french, or german or spanish..you get the point.

[G. Zeus]

Rubel
His name is actually derived from the Louvre Museum (ルーヴル Rūvuru in Katakana). Apparently all the members of the organization are named after popular art museums around the world.

Orsay
He is named after the Musée d'Orsay (オルセー Orusē in Katakana).

Ermita
His name is derived from the Hermitage Museum (エルミタージュ Erumitāju in Katakana).
So it says in this Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Claymore_characters) article.

[Shinen]

ルヴル Ruvuru/Ruburu


"Ruvuru" is really the only possibility, ヴ cannot be spelled as "bu", it is one of those characters created especially to transcribe the foreign "v" into japanese. So it would really make no sense to use this character if the word is supposed to be spelled with a "b". Of couse, it is possible that for some reason the author did it anyway, but in this case it seems unlikely, because like G. Zeus said, his name seems to be borrowed from French.

On another note, how do you pronounce "Dauf" in English? I'm not a native speaker so I really have problems to imagine how it is supposed to sound :confused:

[SimplyEd]

Well. there you have it then, if the source is reliable enough.

Yeah, i'd also inherently tend towards the "v", still it doesn't seem to hinder a few people to use it otherwise. No sweat, i'll just continue to read it ルヴル. :D

[Claymore_Obsessed]

"Ruvuru" is really the only possibility, ヴ cannot be spelled as "bu", it is one of those characters created especially to transcribe the foreign "v" into japanese. So it would really make no sense to use this character if the word is supposed to be spelled with a "b". Of couse, it is possible that for some reason the author did it anyway, but in this case it seems unlikely, because like G. Zeus said, his name seems to be borrowed from French.

In Italian edition, it is spelled Luvr
probably his name is supposed to recall "Louvre" ?:twitch:

[Shinen]

That is really the most likely origin, the Katakana spellings are almost identical. "Luvr" looks like a good solution, not exactly the same spelling, but looks similar enough. But I suppose this reference is much easier to understand for a French or Italian translator ＾＾; Or of course, a Japanese one in this case (the translator of the Italian version is Rieko Fukuda, isn't she?)

Just like "Irene" whose name was changed to "Ilena", probably because the translator simply doesn't know the name "Irene" :confused:
The names in Claymore are really hard to "recognize", since they are taken from many different languages and countries. But at least, it doesn't seem that any of them are invented out of nowhere. So ... I still wonder what Riful is supposed to mean :heh:

[Anh_Minh]

Rifle, maybe?

[Shinen]

Yeah, i'd also inherently tend towards the "v", still it doesn't seem to hinder a few people to use it otherwise.

Hehe, "a few people", you mean, almost everybody ;) at least I really haven't seen anybody who spells his name with a "v", only Rubel, Rubul or even Ruburu. I would have tought, Anime Fans being the purists they are, would have realized this mistake really fast :D

Rifle, maybe?
Rifle or Riffle is a possibility (the Katakana spelling is exactly the same), but ... why would she be called like that, I don't really see any connection :confused:

[Claymore_Obsessed]

That is really the most likely origin, the Katakana spellings are almost identical. "Luvr" looks like a good solution, not exactly the same spelling, but looks similar enough. But I suppose this reference is much easier to understand for a French or Italian translator ＾＾; Or of course, a Japanese one in this case (the translator of the Italian version is Rieko Fukuda, isn't she?)

Yes, you are right, she is Rieko Fukuda^^

[Shinen]

Yes, you are right, she is Rieko Fukuda^^

Thanks for that information, so that would be one official source proving the similarity between these two words. Need to send an email to Viz's translator and tell him that he can't read Katakana :D

[pushpaka]

Sorry to go off-topic, but okay so Riful is going around awakening Claymores. Understandable. Also she's doing it via torture. Understandable too, given that no Claymore wants to awaken voluntarily.

My point is what incentive do you think Riful is going to offer the new Awaken, to make them wish to join her forces? Yeah she can threaten to kill them and between Dauf and her, that's not going to be a problem. But what's to keep an Awaken from going AWOL during a battle or even going to the other side. It's not like she could bribe them with money

[NoSanninWa]

Perhaps they will simply join her out of gratitude for helping them to Awaken.

[Anh_Minh]

Maybe she can convince them that if they run, she'll find them and kill them.

[Laevatein]

Picked up volume 9 of this today. Looks like we're building toward a climax.

[NoSanninWa]

Picked up volume 9 of this today. Looks like we're building toward a climax.
It does rather look that way, but in an interview Yagi-sensei claimed that his story is going to run for 25 volumes.

[Sordes Pilosus]

Well here only up til vol 8 is vailable for the time being. Been delaying the purchase of the volumes for a while but should be up to date by monday :)

[hollywoodlou]

Well here only up til vol 8 is vailable for the time being. Been delaying the purchase of the volumes for a while but should be up to date by monday :)

I thought I would be disciplined enoguh to hold off reading the manga...but damn I went through volumes 10-12 in 2 hours last night and was late for work today.

One thng that also made me laugh was that I thought Riful was a chick...based on the drawing.

[Trax]

One thng that also made me laugh was that I thought Riful was a chick...based on the drawing.

Eh? She is.

[hollywoodlou]

Eh? She is.

Oh F...sorry, my bad...I meant Isley. The way he was drawn...he looked androgynous.

[guest]

the art in the anime doesn't look as good, especially the faces of the girls and the fights seem a bit lacking.
Really? I think the art of anime is way better than manga. In manga, they all look ugly. In anime, they are gorgeous.

[NoSanninWa]

Ah, volume 9 is now in my hands. :D :D

[corkii]

awwz, so lucky. i keep going to the anime store (30mins train travel) when they restocked it in the last 2 days and its always been sold out T_T. there are heaps of claymores fans in Melbourne trying to get their hands on vol 9.

[Riful]

Just by flipping through the english volumes 8 and 9 (for the moment I only buy the Japanese and French versions) I realized a few translation mistakes.

And they really messed up Flora's lines :twitch: "Shut up you lot" from Flora ??!! She uses a really polite language, why did they make her speak like Undine .........

And did you noticed they really translated "Yuma" as "Uma".

[philmein]

Just wondering, episode 18 of the anime corresponds to what volume of the manga?

I'm thinking about whether I should buy the current nine volumes releases thus far..

[sexg0d]

hi, was wondering if anyone in the asia pacific area(im in sydney, australia) knows of a place where i can buy volume 1?

everywhere i looked is out of stock and unable to find any suppliers with it available.

Kinokuniya is the main manga source in sydney for me but they have ran out of sources to get the book for me.

any help appreciated

[Riful]

The english manga and anime are almost at the exactly same point right now, with today's episode the manga will be left behind. So there are no spoilers or whatsoever to worry about- only a big shock with Flora's modified character XD

[philmein]

Ah, I see thanks man.

Do you also know what the total number of volumes will be for this series? I hear its 25 volumes.

[Riful]

I'm not a man XD Well, we don't know for sure, apparently Yagi said it could maybe fit into 25 volumes. So it's the only estimation we have so far, but it can always change.

[philmein]

rofl...my bad hahahaha

Wow, honestly, this could take another 10 years to finish. Damn, I'll be 30 by then. *cries*

[Riful]

I'm very confused over the official translation of the scene with Riful at the end of their fight.

She doesn't sense Alicia at all. She says "the organisation managed to create the likes of you" as if talking to Clare & Co.

She says as well "I hate having to reveal my full powers" - but she didn't reveal her FULL powers at all oO

and to Dauf she says "sorry Dauf can't have you dying on me. You held me off. And didn't break despite my efforts" ... doesn't that mean that they were fighting and she didn't beat him? :confused:

Maybe it's just me misunderstanding the english phrases ...?

[Fenrir_valindri]

In all honesty they were just (suprisingly) badly translated lines, volume 9 had alot more of them then the previous volumes (to my disappointment). :eyespin:

[Riful]

How come, did they change translators or something? :confused:

[Kinematics]

She doesn't sense Alicia at all. She says "the organisation managed to create the likes of you" as if talking to Clare & Co.

Not entirely sure, there. She says that while looking out at the mountains, not at Clare & Co. (we just see her back). She could very well be referring to either of them. It seems to be a deliberately ambiguous statement.

She says as well "I hate having to reveal my full powers" - but she didn't reveal her FULL powers at all oO

No, but she did have to transform to stop the fight, and I get the feeling that she doesn't like to have to take any active part at all. That she had to step in means she had to reveal her true form, which implies actual use of her power rather than just being a cute little girl. It also shows a small bit of her hand to Alicia, if Riful could indeed sense her.

and to Dauf she says "sorry Dauf can't have you dying on me. You held me off. And didn't break despite my efforts" ... doesn't that mean that they were fighting and she didn't beat him?

It seems a bad transition point. I'm pretty sure that the second half ("you held me off..") is directed at Clare et al. Riful seemed sure that she had 'won' the fight a few different times, but they kept fighting back up to the point where Riful herself had to take action. However the problem is that it's positioned at the bottom corner of that page, not at the start of the next where she drops Jean.

How come, did they change translators or something?

They don't credit specific translators in Claymore, only "Arashi Productions", so there's no way of knowing for sure. However a number of the other credits have changed in volume 9 compared to previous volumes, most notably the removal of "Managing Editor/Francis E. Wall". Not sure how much of an impact that may have had, though.

[Shikimori Kazuki]

i have a question regarding the manga. I dont know if i should invest my $ on CLAYMORE manga since i hear some negative comments on it. Did anyone here own the manga by any chance? if so, how accurate (to a certain percentage) do you know the manga to be well translated?

[Riful]

I think the US version of the manga is still well done. Apart from what I wrote above and a few changed names ("Rubel" and "Ilena"), I didn't realise any other problems with the translation. of course I might have missed some, didn't compare panel to panel either ^^ If you speak french I'd chose that version instead XD But else, the US version is well worth the money imho.

[Shikimori Kazuki]

I think the US version of the manga is still well done. Apart from what I wrote above and a few changed names ("Rubel" and "Ilena"), I didn't realise any other problems with the translation. of course I might have missed some, didn't compare panel to panel either ^^ If you speak french I'd chose that version instead XD But else, the US version is well worth the money imho.

Hm ok, i guess i will buy it considering Claymore is one of my favorites:). Plus, I still want to follow the story plot. Theres so many plot holes yet to be solved. Like how were Yoma made, why hell there so many of them, where they originate etc. Up till now theres 10 volumes, guess i'll get em all during my anime con. :D

[guest]

Reading form posts here, does that mean the manga involve Alicia in Riful arc?
Alicia doesn't show up in anime at all! Can soneone tell me how much manga differ from anime? I kind of flip thourgh first few volumes and found out that anime acutally follows manga almost word by word. Does it start to change at Riful Arc?

[dutchman]

Reading form posts here, does that mean the manga involve Alicia in Riful arc?
Alicia doesn't show up in anime at all! Can soneone tell me how much manga differ from anime? I kind of flip thourgh first few volumes and found out that anime acutally follows manga almost word by word. Does it start to change at Riful Arc?

Yes it does.

At that time only some of the more attentful manga readers noticed the difference. But now it become clears that Madhouse was then already planning to deviate from the manga.

[DarkSide Hero]

i have a question regarding the manga. I dont know if i should invest my $ on CLAYMORE manga since i hear some negative comments on it. Did anyone here own the manga by any chance? if so, how accurate (to a certain percentage) do you know the manga to be well translated?

It is very well done, feels like it was fan translated. Much better than the shitlation you would get from tokyopop.

[Riful]

Reading form posts here, does that mean the manga involve Alicia in Riful arc?
Alicia doesn't show up in anime at all! Can soneone tell me how much manga differ from anime? I kind of flip thourgh first few volumes and found out that anime acutally follows manga almost word by word. Does it start to change at Riful Arc?

Yes it does

At that time only some of the more attentful manga readers noticed the difference. But now it become clears that Madhouse was then already planning to deviate from the manga.

I think they already left some tiny things out during Teresa's arc. For example Teresa's thoughts about her past (or did I simply forget that part in the anime?). And they already skipped something during Slasher's-Arc which might be back later on in the manga. I'd start the manga from Teresa's arc at least, before that the anime didn't skip anything I think.

[Bikerider]

The Anime skipped the second chapter of the Manga.

[Riful]

The Anime skipped the second chapter of the Manga.

right, but it covered all the important parts and didn't leave out some storylines. They even ADDED something useful (background to Elena and Clare), which was lacking in the manga. (Of course I'd still read the manga from the beginning simply, doesn't take long anyway).

I really would have liked to contact Viz about their translation (especially make them correct the way Flora talkes, it's so entirely out of character), but they're really ... hard to contact. They don't seem to keep a lively contact with their readers ...

[Claymore_Obsessed]

I really would have liked to contact Viz about their translation (especially make them correct the way Flora talkes, it's so entirely out of character), but they're really ... hard to contact. They don't seem to keep a lively contact with their readers ...

I don't read english edition, but I'm curious, how does Flora talk in that version? :)

[guest]

Yes it does.

So that is how the orgnization found out about Galatea's cover up for Jean and Clare. I always wonder how they found out. :) Anime never explain that.

[Riful]

I don't read english edition, but I'm curious, how does Flora talk in that version? :)

Imagine Flora talking like Helen or a second Undine ;P
I'll try to quote from memory, something like "shut up you lot. if any of you wants to interfer again I'll be glad to be your opponent". Comparing to the fact that she uses extremely polite Keigo in the original ... "minasan oshizuka ni" = "everyone please be quiet". "shut up you lot" is almost wrong as a translation in such a case >.<

[Stranjer]

Anyone want to take guesses on it... even though i havent found any proof anywhere, i cant help but theorize that the organization creates them, then creates claymores out of the stronger ones, in a goal to create the strongest beings that they are able to control. They seem to make a shit-ton of money from this. THeir goal would likely be immortality, world domination, or just simply money.

Whether it is actually the organization or not, i feel like someone(s) are pulling the strings behind the yoma, guiding them, if only slightly, to cause chaos, which lures claymores in, which has to serve some purpose.

[LesAmiesNoir]

I've been thinking about that to. Remember in the early parts of the Teresa arc her contacts says "You make it sound like we send the yoma after them." and thus Teresa anwsers "You mean we don't?"

So far for me there hasn't been more proof then that but I've seen more people have theories about it, so until other has been proved I'll be sticking to that. Then comes the question, who are the yomas "made"? I'm guessing I'll get an anwser on that eventually as well, but does anyone here have any theories perhaps?

[Shikimori Kazuki]

Does anyone know why Claymore volume 11 is extended all the way to March 2008? Volume 10 was released this month "November". I researched and it is every 2 months that a new volume will come out. Why is this? Does it have something to do with the monthly Claymore moving to Jump Square from Shonen Jump?

[Arcananine77]

Imagine Flora talking like Helen or a second Undine ;P
I'll try to quote from memory, something like "shut up you lot. if any of you wants to interfer again I'll be glad to be your opponent". Comparing to the fact that she uses extremely polite Keigo in the original ... "minasan oshizuka ni" = "everyone please be quiet". "shut up you lot" is almost wrong as a translation in such a case >.<

The difference from the original aside. I don't find 'shut up you lot' terribly unfitting. Given the situation.

Everyone was bickering while Miria was busy talking. And with a small display of her technique and a little threat (unladylike, but she felt she had no choice) she got everyone's attention back to listening.

[NoSanninWa]

Does anyone know why Claymore volume 11 is extended all the way to March 2008? Volume 10 was released this month "November". I researched and it is every 2 months that a new volume will come out. Why is this? Does it have something to do with the monthly Claymore moving to Jump Square from Shonen Jump?

It has nothing to do with the change of Japanese publication. I'd be speculating about their reason, but I suspect it has to do with the fact that their publication is catching up to the Japanese releases and they want to slow it down so that the time between releases is only 4 months, instead of every 6 months.

[HinaThePrince]

That, and the fact that they're spending most of their efforts on translating Naruto, probably.

[Jamezterr]

That, and the fact that they're spending most of their efforts on translating Naruto, probably.


Eeww . . :-/

[Shikimori Kazuki]

aw that means that i have to wait till a little while longer to read pass the Northern Campaign Battle :(. However, now that i have the manga, i notice ALOT of differences between. Likewise, I wouldn't spoil anything. Any whos curious should buy the manga and support this awesome series.

[Devilz911]

I got Vol. 1-10, just 4-5 months for Vol. 11!

[khryoleoz]

What the heck? On vol 11, Viz opted for "magnificent" rather than "superb"! What a lame one-liner.

[chibamonster]

magnificent is not a superb choice.

[RevanX]

見事: (noun, na-adj) splendid, magnificent, beautiful, admirable, feat etc

Not so surprising they chose 'magnificent'. I do kinda prefer 'magnificent' though. Yes I'm being a spoilsport. Yes I'll shut up now.

:P

[HinaThePrince]

Damn You Viz, You Ruined Our Meme

[Fenrir_valindri]

It still lives on in our hearts, they ruined plenty of lines so far, including Riful's line about Dauf being the only one that could withstand her. :P

[khryoleoz]

magnificent is not a superb choice.
LOL, no I suppose not. It's a magnificent one.

[Arcananine77]

見事: (noun, na-adj) splendid, magnificent, beautiful, admirable, feat etc

Not so surprising they chose 'magnificent'. I do kinda prefer 'magnificent' though. Yes I'm being a spoilsport. Yes I'll shut up now.

:P

Agreed. Boo to memes.

[RevanX]

I think 'magnificent' is more superb than 'superb'.

</blasphemy>

[Nesty]

magnificent is not a superb choice.

no it isn't indeed >_<!!! wtf is "magnificient".....

next volume out will be July 2008! another 4 darn months T_T

[chibamonster]

I do not use the word magnificent seriously. The only place I can think I would have used it would have been pretending to be an aristocrat talking about a view from an exotic vacation. Whereas I have said superb ever since I played the original mortal kombat.

[NoSanninWa]

Maybe they chose the word "magnificent" because they found the meme as annoying as I do. That sounds like a pretty good reason.

[chibamonster]

I stumbled onto the movie "The Ten Commandments" this weekend and I heard something too awesome not so share. When Pharaoh goes to visit Moses to see if he is building an army or a city, Moses shows him that he has constructed something beyond the Pharaoh's wildest expectation. Pharaoh's response? "Superb!" I hold that superb is the right word.

Translation is a funny thing. When it is done literally it loses a lot of its meaning and becomes flat. I was watching a fansub of bleach the other day where the translators decided to convey the meaning behind the phrase rather than the literal definition. It was awesome. Instead of translating urusai as "shut up", or "you are annoying" the character said "blow me". Sure the literal sense was off, but the meaning was exactly right in the situation. The characters had so much more dimension to them. That probably has something to do with why so many famous books written in foreign languages have so many translations. A translator gets to tweek the story a bit.

[Arcananine77]

I stumbled onto the movie "The Ten Commandments" this weekend and I heard something too awesome not so share. When Pharaoh goes to visit Moses to see if he is building an army or a city, Moses shows him that he has constructed something beyond the Pharaoh's wildest expectation. Pharaoh's response? "Superb!" I hold that superb is the right word.

Translation is a funny thing. When it is done literally it loses a lot of its meaning and becomes flat. I was watching a fansub of bleach the other day where the translators decided to convey the meaning behind the phrase rather than the literal definition. It was awesome. Instead of translating urusai as "shut up", or "you are annoying" the character said "blow me". Sure the literal sense was off, but the meaning was exactly right in the situation. The characters had so much more dimension to them. That probably has something to do with why so many famous books written in foreign languages have so many translations. A translator gets to tweek the story a bit.

That is true. But the fact remains that both magnificent and superb are adequate translations. With magnificent sounding more slightly refined (which ties into Rigardo being the Silver Eyed Lion KING).

[Rowan]

Saw an early release of volume twelve today, and one particular translation caught my eye. Instead of "the Zimas had twins", meaning the last name of a family, the translation was "Zemu", as in the first name of one man.

...how sure are we that the fan translation is correct?

R.

[Cyclone]

Saw an early release of volume twelve today, and one particular translation caught my eye. Instead of "the Zimas had twins", meaning the last name of a family, the translation was "Zemu", as in the first name of one man.

...how sure are we that the fan translation is correct?

R.

Indeed - looking at the raw it does say ZEMU.
The quote is:

聞いたか　裏のゼムさんとこの話

Good spot. Chalk it up do dyslexia probably since ma(マ) and mu(ム) can easily become short circuited in the brain I find. So I guess Zem or Zemu is right.

That makes it what? 439 to 2 now? :p

[Rowan]

I mainly took note because of all those fans that like to refers to Alicia and Beth as the Zimas twins. Now they don't have last names again.

EDIT: I almost forgot. ETA of next volume is November, and will include the first two sidestories.

R.

[Kinematics]

Reading volume 12 today, a few other differences I noticed:

Yuma - Translated as Uma. Went back and checked volume 10 and noticed they used Uma there as well (when she lost her arm after the first battle with the 3 scouts). I'm missing my volume 9, so can't check how she was named in the party allocation scene. Never really caught my attention before since she wasn't a notable character when I first read through that bit.

In Clarice's debriefing, the fan translation says that number 9 should be replaced with number 7 (in reference to allocation in the northern region), while Viz says number 9 should be promoted to number 7. Minor difference in detail, I suppose.

Lunee - Translated as Renée. I rather like Renée better; Lunee never really made sense to me.

[Cyclone]

Reading volume 12 today, a few other differences I noticed:

Yuma - Translated as Uma. Went back and checked volume 10 and noticed they used Uma there as well (when she lost her arm after the first battle with the 3 scouts). I'm missing my volume 9, so can't check how she was named in the party allocation scene. Never really caught my attention before since she wasn't a notable character when I first read through that bit.

In Clarice's debriefing, the fan translation says that number 9 should be replaced with number 7 (in reference to allocation in the northern region), while Viz says number 9 should be promoted to number 7. Minor difference in detail, I suppose.

Lunee - Translated as Renée. I rather like Renée better; Lunee never really made sense to me.

Yes, most unfortunate translations...

Don't know why they decided to call Yuma a horse (uma = horse in japanese). Needless to say, that is not her name.

The No 9 to No 7 thing says: "But number 9 to number 7..." (japanese love dropping 'obvious' verbs) and continues to "and increase the total battle power of the others". I think 'replace' makes more sense than promote personally.

Renee is absurd, but that's life. It's ルネ　(RU/LU - NE).

[Korinov]

Mmm... I've never got my hands over Viz's version, but instead I had some volumes of Glénat's spanish version, and some translations really caught my attention.

To said it quickly, Clare is "Claire", Teresa is "Theresa", Rubel is "Ruvuru" and Rimt, the boss of the organization (as we have seen) is called "Rimuto". I have no clue about the original names (not beyond anime's "Kureaaaaagh" from Raki :p ) so I dunno if they are correct or not. Spanish translations usually keep the names very close to original spelling, like in Berserk we have Gatsu instead of "Gatts" or "Gutts", and "Kiasca" instead of "Casca" (maybe because the verb "cascar" has a close meaning to masturbation ;) ).

PD: I've just bought volume 3 and realised that Teresa is called "Theresa la sonriente" (Smiling Teresa). Here it's more understandable, since the litteral translation would have been "Theresa la de la tenue sonrisa" (Teresa of the faint smile) and geez, it sounds no good at all.

PD2: As an "interesting" fact, Bishou no Teresa sounds really funny in spanish because "Bishou" reminds the spelling of the word bicho with andalusian accent. "Bicho no Teresa" means "Bug no Teresa" in spanish :D

[Riful]

Funny, since I just posted about the same in another thread. I want to note that, as much as I complained about "Rubel" and "Ilena", which aber both wrong indeed ... "Uma" and "Renée" are the correct translations, and I'm happy that VIZ got those right.

Yes, most unfortunate translations...

Don't know why they decided to call Yuma a horse (uma = horse in japanese). Needless to say, that is not her name.

Well, it is her name. You know Uma Thurman? Yep, she has the same name. It is not based on Japanese words at all, but on this one: http://www.behindthename.com/name/uma

Renee is absurd, but that's life. It's ルネ　(RU/LU - NE).

Renee is as absurd as Japanese Katakana spellings can get. Rune is indeed the Japanese spelling of the French (!) name René or Renée. Lune/e is not a name neither is Rune. Renée turns into Rune in Japanese because it is based on the French pronunciation, it is also spelt "Rene" when based on the English one. But Renee is correct. They even added the "e" to use the feminine form of the name, not like back then with Noel/le, where they gave her a male name. I'm so happy xD

To said it quickly, Clare is "Claire", Teresa is "Theresa", Rubel is "Ruvuru" and Rimt, the boss of the organization (as we have seen) is called "Rimuto". I have no clue about the original names (not beyond anime's "Kureaaaaagh" from Raki :p ) so I dunno if they are correct or not.

They're all correct and almost the same anyway, apart from Rubel which is wrong, while Ruvuru is correct (but it should be Louvre ;) ). Clare and Teresa are the spellings used in the Japanese manga, so you can consider them "correct". However Claire and Theresa are just variant spellings of the same name, which do exist as well.

The other one is Rimuto in Katakana, so keeping it just like that or turning it into Rimt is possible. We don't know where his name comes from really.

Also, Bishou no Teresa means "Smiling Theresa" ... I'm not sure why they added a "faint" in there in English, maybe because it sounds better (it does indeed) or because there is a difference that I don't get, since I'm no native speaker. In French they also simply called her "la souriante", which is about the same as in Spanish.

[chibamonster]

I believe that Rimuto's (リムト) name comes from another art related name; Gustav Klimt or in Japanese グスタフ・クリムト I heard Yagi named a lot of characters after art related things like. At least that is what I heard...

[Riful]

yes, I heard that too, but we can't be sure unless someone asks him in an interview or so ^^ There might even be some other museum that his Katakana were taken from, which hasn't been discovered yet, like the other Men in Black XD
For them at least we can be sure, because it would be too much of a coincidence that all their names correspond to major art museums. Also at one point in the story they went into the "Pablo mountains" ... so yes, art related names do appear.

But whatever spelling you chose, the name is really weird >.< I just call him "the Boss" for now. ;)

[Korinov]

Thx Riful for the explanation.

I've heard that MiB are usually named after famous museums all around the world, like Ruvuru/Rubel = Louvre, Orsay/Orsé = Orsay, Ermita/Eremita = Hermitage, Rado/Radu = Prado... etc. Looking at Claymore's names, they seem to be inspired in arts (Ophelia, for example). Well, I suppose we have to thank Yagi his interest in world culture, instead of choosing cool but unpronounceable japanese names (check Bleach's databooks if you need an idea :p )

[Cyclone]

Well, it is her name. You know Uma Thurman? Yep, she has the same name. It is not based on Japanese words at all, but on this one: http://www.behindthename.com/name/uma

So, if the Japanese goal was to write the name 'Uma' why the heck wouldn't they write 'ウマ' instead of 'ユマ'? Makes no sense. The former is even pronounced exactly the same. I don't know about you, but I'm personally for simple transliterating the katakana when there is ambiguity instead of searching all the languages in the world over for potential candidates.

[Ryuken]

Yea that name is used in India a lot, I'd have to say that it is infect an Indian name.

[Riful]

So, if the Japanese goal was to write the name 'Uma' why the heck wouldn't they write 'ウマ' instead of 'ユマ'? Makes no sense. The former is even pronounced exactly the same. I don't know about you, but I'm personally for simple transliterating the katakana when there is ambiguity instead of searching all the languages in the world over for potential candidates.

Good question. As a matter of fact they call Uma Thurman ユマ・サーマン (Yuma). The Japanese wikipedia explains that - just as you said - her name means horse in Japanese, so they decided to render it as ユマ Yuma in Katakana. Unfortunately there is no source, but it doesn't sound impossible.

Personally I don't think Uma's name is part of the "ambiguous" ones, since it was quite easy to find back then when I tried to look for corresponding names, thanks to Uma Thurman. The names that really give me a headache are "Riful" or "Isley" or "Rigardo" or something ;)

[Cyclone]

Good question. As a matter of fact they call Uma Thurman ユマ・サーマン (Yuma). The Japanese wikipedia explains that - just as you said - her name means horse in Japanese, so they decided to render it as ユマ Yuma in Katakana. Unfortunately there is no source, but it doesn't sound impossible.

Personally I don't think Uma's name is part of the "ambiguous" ones, since it was quite easy to find back then when I tried to look for corresponding names, thanks to Uma Thurman. The names that really give me a headache are "Riful" or "Isley" or "Rigardo" or something ;)

Yes, since they don't want to call anyone a horse, THEY changed it. Since they don't want to use the name Uma, why should we change it back from Yuma? Simply put it's not what they wrote (and it stinks of 'dumbing down' style editting that I am allergic to).
We can guess as to what they meant, but why bother? They say Yuma, we can say Yuma. I think if we're not certain, then providing a valid transliteration and leaving it alone is the best policy.

I could, by the same logic, decide that riful most closely resembles "Riffle" and say that 'RAI' and 'RI' are 'close enough', but it's just a silly guess and trying to impose that guess on others is not my thing.

When it's obvious like KUREA (Clare) or Jean or someone, sure, but finding a reference on wiki where the japanese DELIBERATELY misspell something trying not to offend a weirdly named actress by fiddling with her name becuase it means horse in their native language is a bit of a stretch.

[Riful]

As said, there is no source for what is written on wikipedia, actually they added the "citation needed" tag to it, so the info is not certain at all.

And the difference is, in English Uma does not mean horse and it is a name, so there is no reason to stick to the Japanese changes imho. And since there is proof that "Yuma" is their way of writting the name "Uma", to me that makes it a valid transcription and I do agree with the choice Viz made. But since there are no definite rules every translator bases their choices on different aspects.

But of course, you can always spell it Uma and pronouce Yuma ;) Personally I used to call Uma Thurman "Yuma" because I kind of assumed her name to be pronounced in an American/English way. Which might be another reason for her name to end up as Yuma in Katakana (though I don't believe they're as ignorant as me).

[edf91]

Also, Bishou no Teresa means "Smiling Theresa" ... I'm not sure why they added a "faint" in there in English, maybe because it sounds better (it does indeed) or because there is a difference that I don't get, since I'm no native speaker. In French they also simply called her "la souriante", which is about the same as in Spanish.

I think it's due to the words being borrowed from Chinese. In Chinese, the word "shou" already means smile/laugh. "Bi" in this case is describing the smile (small/minor). From my understanding of the word smile in English can go up in degree pretty high (meaning your smile can get pretty big before it is consider a laugh), therefore if the translator want to keep the original meaning, they have to translate it as faint. That's the beauty of the Chinese language sometimes - they can be pretty precise in describing somethings with the minimal choice of words.

Besides, there is also a double-meaning of Teresa's title - most Asian literature really "treasure" a beauty's smile, so if they basically name someone smile, it would suggest that person is beautiful, and I am not sure about you, but Teresa is one of the most beautiful Claymore we have seen so far (Flora is ok, but she is more of a quiet type beauty while Teresa is more of an overall beauty {have the "asset" to back it up, unlike Flora :) }). Trust me, if Teresa isn't as beautiful as she is, I doubt they would call her "Smiling Teresa". Imagine if Teresa look like Noel - I am sure people would just laugh or something if they saw Noel after hearing her nickname is "Faint Smile".

[dee32]

According to vol. 12 scene 68 page 140, the MIBs are having a meeting. They promote number 9 (Nina) to number 7. So Nina should be refered as number 7 instead of number 9.

[tenken627]

According to vol. 12 scene 68 page 140, the MIBs are having a meeting. They promote number 9 (Nina) to number 7. So Nina should be refered as number 7 instead of number 9.

Actually, he meant that #9 Nina should be replaced by #7 as the single digit leader in the North. He didn't mean that #9 Nina should be #7 Nina.

So that means that Nina no longer is stationed in the North, #7 is (whatever her name is). And the other Claymores that were in the North with Nina were also switched out for higher ranking soldiers. This way, the Organization's strength in the North is increased.

[Patcoola]

before i start i like to say i first saw the anime before the manga and had high hopes.

my first impressions on the manga is that the differences are small to the anime which had more detail and actions were the manga was quick to the next scene.

after seeing the anime i've always suspected that Clare was so young, but in the manga it shows that Raki and Clare are very young, in the beginning.

The art work in the manga is inconsistent for the characters, the eyes to me are awkward but adds to a unique style by the artist. the heads of the characters display a style indeed and make everyone look like a child. Clare is short in one scene and taller in another. In the anime i only had to play the "Did the sword get bigger" game a friend of mine started with the series Berserk when the size of the sword would change from cut to cut in the scene, but in the manga i can play "Did her boobs get bigger", "did she just get taller", "did his eyes move farther apart" and so on.

among all things said this is still my first impressions and im still a big fan of the claymore series. I mean no disrespects to the artist.

[MisterJB]

If you only read the first chapter is normal.
Believe me, lately the artwork gets amazing, principally with Clare, rigth now, she looks like a real woman

[Korinov]

Yup, Yagi's drawing techniques evolved a lot between volumes 1 and 4... fortunately he managed to erase most of his inconsistences.

BTW, I come here to this post cause the Volume 6 I recently bought in Glènat spanish version has simply get me LOL'd.

[link removed by a moderator]

Second bullet. Helen's words (talking about her half-awakening):

- I got carried away and lost control. The impulse to awaken was too strong, just like it was for the males.

Glènat's version:

- Sobrepasé mi límite llevada por la euforia. Estaba con un chico y no pude reprimirme.

that means...

- I surpassed my limits carried away by euphoria. I was with a boy and I couldn't resist.

:twitch: :uhoh: :heh:

[KillerYomaFromSpace]

Yup, Yagi's drawing techniques evolved a lot between volumes 1 and 4... fortunately he managed to erase most of his inconsistences.

BTW, I come here to this post cause the Volume 6 I recently bought in Glènat spanish version has simply get me LOL'd.

[link removed by a moderator]

Second bullet. Helen's words (talking about her half-awakening):

- I got carried away and lost control. The impulse to awaken was too strong, just like it was for the males.

Glènat's version:

- Sobrepasé mi límite llevada por la euforia. Estaba con un chico y no pude reprimirme.

that means...

- I surpassed my limits carried away by euphoria. I was with a boy and I couldn't resist.

:twitch: :uhoh: :heh:

I've been buying the Glenat versions since almost a year ago, so that line got me confused for quite a while.

[MisterJB]

Yup, Yagi's drawing techniques evolved a lot between volumes 1 and 4... fortunately he managed to erase most of his inconsistences.

BTW, I come here to this post cause the Volume 6 I recently bought in Glènat spanish version has simply get me LOL'd.
[link removed by a moderator]

Second bullet. Helen's words (talking about her half-awakening):

- I got carried away and lost control. The impulse to awaken was too strong, just like it was for the males.

Glènat's version:

- Sobrepasé mi límite llevada por la euforia. Estaba con un chico y no pude reprimirme.



that means...

- I surpassed my limits carried away by euphoria. I was with a boy and I couldn't resist.

:twitch: :uhoh: :heh:

As a fan of hetero pairings, to me that's so rigth in so many ways.:D

Thanks for sharing

[Rowan]

That makes Helen's blush a lot more understandable. I wondered why she'd be blushing about almost awakening, but if it was during sex, even Helen might get slightly embarrassed.

R.

[KillerYomaFromSpace]

I should remind you guys that that version is wrong

[MisterJB]

Which doesn't change the fact that Yagi could have thougth of it that way, after all, she said that she was just like males, wich means, too horny.

And like Rowan said, she blushed.

I would love to see the face of the guy when that happened LOL

[Rowan]

I just doubled checked the anime. It's basically the Viz manga version instead of the spanish one. Spanish one is more fun, though.

And MisterJB, I now challenge you to find someone in the image thread to make that comic. ;)

R.

[KillerYomaFromSpace]

Which doesn't change the fact that Yagi could have thougth of it that way, after all, she said that she was just like males, wich means, too horny.

And like Rowan said, she blushed.

I would love to see the face of the guy when that happened LOL

getting horny and being with a guy are two very diferent things

[MisterJB]

KillerYoma: It seems we have this discussion over and over again. Ok, Helen was the first girl to point out what we were all thinkhing, that Raki was Clare's loveboy.
But once again, this is a matter of perspective, if you like to think that she was with a girl (Deneve maybe) when that happened, then go ahead, who am I to stop you?
I simply like hetero stuff.

Rowan: I'm not sure if I'm best to do that, I don't go to the image thread that often, altough I migth know someone personally that could do that, the only problem is that he never watched Claymore

[hell88]

Which doesn't change the fact that Yagi could have thougth of it that way, after all, she said that she was just like males, wich means, too horny.

And like Rowan said, she blushed.

I would love to see the face of the guy when that happened LOL

What Helen means is that she liked the feeling, jut like the males did. That doesn't mean she is horny, she just liked the feeling. This is hard to explain but I have to agree with killeryomafromspace on this one.

[KillerYomaFromSpace]

KillerYoma: It seems we have this discussion over and over again. Ok, Helen was the first girl to point out what we were all thinkhing, that Raki was Clare's loveboy.
But once again, this is a matter of perspective, if you like to think that she was with a girl (Deneve maybe) when that happened, then go ahead, who am I to stop you?
I simply like hetero stuff.

Rowan: I'm not sure if I'm best to do that, I don't go to the image thread that often, altough I migth know someone personally that could do that, the only problem is that he never watched Claymore

I never said she was with a girl, but according to the Claymore universe the most plausible explanation is that she was by herself and not with a guy or with anyone.

And your image of Helen seem a bit distorted, what she said to Clare was only to tease her, also, if she was like a whore crazy for guys, she would have tried to flirt with some guys at Rabona instead of getting drunk by herself and then decide to just leave the city.

[hell88]

I never said she was with a girl, but according to the Claymore universe the most plausible explanation is that she was by herself and not with a guy or with anyone.

And your image of Helen seem a bit distorted, what she said to Clare was only to tease her, also, if she was like a whore crazy for guys, she would have tried to flirt with some guys at Rabona instead of getting drunk by herself and then decide to just leave the city.

Again I have to agree with killeryomafromspace, the way Helen made it sound was like she was wounded really bad and almost had no choice but to give in to awakening.

[MisterJB]

Of course it was only to tease her, never said that she wanted to make out with Raki, just saying that she seems to be Claymore who is more into this kind of stuff.

But I think that if she is like the males, then I suposse that she raised her Yoki a little too much one day and she couldn't control the impulse.
We saw in this new chapter that she really likes the feeling