The biology of Claymores

[NoSanninWa]

A discussion of how Claymores might be made and the possibility of having children spontaneously broke out in the Claymore episode 9 discussion. This is a topic that we are eventually going to need to have a thread for since I fear this topic will break out constantly in future episode discussions. It seems inevitable. As a result I have moved the discussion into this brand new thread! Besides, Claymores are fascinating creatures and we all want to know what makes them special. This thread can be used to discuss any aspect of Claymore biology. This discussion may include, but is not limited to:
How are Claymore made?
Can Claymores have children?
How does the release of Youma energy effect a Claymore's physique?
What happens to a Claymore when she Awakens?
How do the power of the Awakened work?




I know it is a rule that god kills a catgirl any time real world physics are introduced into a discussion about anime, but I had a chat with god and she promised me that no catgirls will be harmed as a result of anything said in this thread. After all, if we are going to pretend that these questions have answers we have already started to risk the lives of those adorable catgirls.

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[SimplyEd]

I see becoming Claymore more like an infection.


How to become a Claymore, for starters.

It's not an "infection". It's an artificial (unnatural) alteration of the human physique/metabolism and even mentality. I think it's save to assume that it's a rather brutal and painful act, especially for the time right after the transformation. When Claymores learn to cope with their new hybrid body. All Claymores (except for Clare) were created against theit will, meaning that it's also quite traumatic, to say the least.

[Slice of Life]

How to become a Claymore, for starters.

It's not an "infection". It's an artificial (unnatural) alteration of the human physique/metabolism and even mentality. I think it's save to assume that it's a rather brutal and painful act, especially for the time right after the transformation. When Claymores learn to cope with their new hybrid body. All Claymores (except for Clare) were created against theit will, meaning that it's also quite traumatic, to say the least.

Yes, but an infection can do all that too. The point simply is, I don't think that this Claymore/human/youma arithmetics works. After all, Claymores (who are 1/2 human, or 2/3 human or whatever seem win most fights against youma so by that logic a full 1/1 human whould be even stronger. :eyespin:

As I see it it's human female plus traces of DNA/energy/magic/AT fields/polaron beams/whatever of a youma under right circumstances equals Claymore. But going into the details of the human -> Claymore transformation would probably kill more catgirls than a platoon of youma could. :)

That statement would fall under generalization and exaggeration.
The fault lies not with those people who don't know about Berserk but with those who know about it, make comments and draw connections between both series', and then fail to elaborate on that matter.

First and foremost, we should all judge each individual show on its own merits.

*very much subscribes*

As "self-respecting [and experienced] anime fan" I doubt that there is an anime show that has NOT been declared a must-see somewhere by somebody at some point.

[Anh_Minh]

Let's kill a few catgirls anyway.

Claymores are chimeras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimera_%28genetics%29). They have human cells and youmas cells. Going out on a limb, I'm going to say the reason Claymores are stronger than normal youmas are their human minds and willpower, allowing them to maximise the effects of youki on their bodies. Or maybe they have a special training that youmas lack. Or both.

And the reason it's possible at all (as opposed to, say, grafting cat ears on people) is that youma cells are magical and have weird transformation powers, which allow them to cohabit with human cells (I wonder if they've experimented on animal youma hybrids?).

Now take Clare: she actually has three types of cells: her original ones, Theresa's human ones, and Theresa's youma's. Now, thanks to the youma's magic, she isn't dying of cancer or anything, but it does weaken her compared to other Claymores. The only reason she isn't much weaker is that Theresa was freakishly strong to start with, even by Claymore standards.

[LilleNisse]

Just because the Claymore are all women doesn't mean that they never tried to make male Claymore. There has to be a reason that they are all female. Perhaps he was what resulted when they tried to make a male Claymore. Or, a Claymore could have become pregnant and had a male child who carried enough of her demon blood that he eventually became an awakened one.

I believe we share the thought of that they have tried to make males into "claymores". And that it's something with the male body that does so they can't use the same "power" as the females. That's my theory on the awakened male. But what I meant with the only female claymores is that there are no males in the ranks (there numbers). But they have males in the organization preforming tasks.
Maybe pregnancy is the answer to this. Why shouldn't the women be able to get child after the whole yuoma transfer (as claymore or maybe even after awakened?).
Well hopefully there will shed some light on this matter in some upcoming episodes. Or maybe the next episode if i am lucky. Since my head just keep spinning around with all this.
And don't want any manga spoiler if there are any just so everybody knows :heh:

[Defiled one]

Well, maybe they use "male awakened" for breeding. You never know if those 3 were ambushed by the Organization.

As Miria said, why would a 47 ranked Claymore be around hunting an Awakened? And Since Clare has Teresa blood, it would be logical that the offspring would be powerfull.

My guess is that they are trying, to breed them out in order to, eliminate Priscilla.

Rubel is Evil, I don`t trust him and his "Gendo glasses":cool:

I mean, How did Clare knew, the process, of making a Claymore? Teresa must have told her that :uhoh:

Oh, and the ranks can be changed. It`s just a matter to know who is the strongest Claymore. They fight each other in order to know who is the strongest. Remember the prior episodes? When the Youmas infested that town?
This only means that Clare had bad grades while being in "Claymore school":heh:


Of course this are only theories...There isn`t any proof with the exception of knowing that Claymores have sexual urges. Beware of Helen...:heh:

[Archmagination2002]

I believe Helen answers the question about Claymore's getting pregnant in this episode.. remember when she comments on Raki she says "He can't be yours" That strongly implies that Claymore's can't get pregnant.

[PastPrime]

I believe we share the thought of that they have tried to make males into "claymores". And that it's something with the male body that does so they can't use the same "power" as the females. That's my theory on the awakened male. But what I meant with the only female claymores is that there are no males in the ranks (there numbers). But they have males in the organization preforming tasks.
Maybe pregnancy is the answer to this. Why shouldn't the women be able to get child after the whole yuoma transfer (as claymore or maybe even after awakened?).
Well hopefully there will shed some light on this matter in some upcoming episodes. Or maybe the next episode if i am lucky. Since my head just keep spinning around with all this.
And don't want any manga spoiler if there are any just so everybody knows :heh:
I thought of another possibility. Perhaps their mothod of making Claymores evolved from something that happened naturally from time to time. A group of humans fighting against a Yuma and someone getting his or her wounds contaminated with Yuma blood and/or flesh.

I believe Helen answers the question about Claymore's getting pregnant in this episode.. remember when she comments on Raki she says "He can't be yours" That strongly implies that Claymore's can't get pregnant.

Or maybe that they can't have normal children.

[LilleNisse]

I thought of another possibility. Perhaps their mothod of making Claymores evolved from something that happened naturally from time to time. A group of humans fighting against a Yuma and someone getting his or her wounds contaminated with Yuma blood and/or flesh.


Thats possible. Even against normal humans, a weak yuoma shouldn't walk away without any form of damage. We saw Galk (spelling on hes name?) and the other one in the "church" episode. They can do some good fighting.
So what your saying may were well be true. That some males/females somehow got contaminated and then continued on to evolve to the state we know as "awakened". Might still be going on even if the current way of making claymores is more "advanced". So who knows, that awakened male we have seen might have just been a normal man with a pitchfork in the wrong place at the wrong time :heh:

Really hope they will give us the answer on the whole male awakening process in the next episode

[Slice of Life]

I believe Helen answers the question about Claymore's getting pregnant in this episode.. remember when she comments on Raki she says "He can't be yours" That strongly implies that Claymore's can't get pregnant.

Could also simply be the age difference. Assuming that Clare isn't too old (mid twenties?) and assuming that Claymores age at the same rate as humans (such that one can guess Clare's age from looking at her). Or Claymores could simply be forbidden to have children which would be very likely especially if it's not guaranteed that the children are 100 percent human. You're probably right for meta-reasons (it's a fitting anime cliche, eliminates potential complications for the story line and adds some more tragedy to the Claymores) , but I disagree that it's "strongly implied" from what Helen says.

[Anime Online]

Well, there could be three schools of theory how half-human-half-yoma Claymores are created:

(a) Technology: the organization had been secretly conducting genetic experiments as humanity's answer to prevent extinction in the face of their natural predators.

(b) Magic : It just happens. The organization splices a yoma tissue sample into a healthy human body which, instead of being rejected by the immunity system, blends into the human host.

(c) Natural : A well-hidden secret that yomas and humans genes are compatible enough to actually produce offsprings.

Kinda like how mules are a crossbred between a donkey and a horse. The mule possesses the sobriety, patience, endurance and sure-footedness of the donkey, and the vigour, strength and courage of the horse. As a side-note, due to differing number of chromosomes of the two species, mules are sterile.

So in the Claymore example, they could be a "natural" hybrid race that inherits that best traits of both parentage. Why aren't there male Claymores then? Perhaps, for some reason, the male offsprings never survive maturity. But, aha, Episode#09 showed one actually did.

[Anh_Minh]

(c) Natural : A well-hidden secret that yomas and humans genes are compatible enough to actually produce offsprings.


Can't be. Clare used to be human, but isn't anymore. She wasn't born a hybrid.

[Negativedark]

Could also simply be the age difference. Assuming that Clare isn't too old (mid twenties?) and assuming that Claymores age at the same rate as humans (such that one can guess Clare's age from looking at her). Or Claymores could simply be forbidden to have children which would be very likely especially if it's not guaranteed that the children are 100 percent human. You're probably right for meta-reasons (it's a fitting anime cliche, eliminates potential complications for the story line and adds some more tragedy to the Claymores) , but I disagree that it's "strongly implied" from what Helen says.

Another possibility is that the org has "spayed" the Claymores. We know from earlier lines (well in the manga at least. I'm assuming their in the anime) that the process for making a Claymore involves surgicaly implanting yoma flesh and blood. While their opened up, why not do a little snipping, or remove something that the Claymores won't be needing. If the org doesn't want Claymores reproducing, that would be a simple way to do it.

[Anime Online]

If the org doesn't want Claymores reproducing, that would be a simple way to do it.

Given the difficulty in training new recruits, the dangerous nature of the job and the short life expectancy (none of the Claymores look middle-aged, so either all of them die young or they have stumbled into the Fountain of Eternal Youth), why not produce as many as they can? Surely it is better to have more than you need, than to fall short of what you need.

[Defiled one]

My guess is that they fear something, might be born, that is unable to be tamed.

[Guido]

Given the difficulty in training new recruits, the dangerous nature of the job and the short life expectancy (none of the Claymores look middle-aged, so either all of them die young or they have stumbled into the Fountain of Eternal Youth), why not produce as many as they can? Surely it is better to have more than you need, than to fall short of what you need.

The only inconvenience would be that the organization can never know for sure the exact drives and circumstances for which each of the individual Claymore might run the risk of turning into Awakened in any day at the battlefield, if they become imperially pissed, or if they are careless with their release of yokiri.

Besides, Helen explained to Laki that there is one Claymore assigned to each area that comprises the continent. The continent is divided into 47 areas, therefore, they can be only 47 official Claymores at the time, though the Organization has everything preplanned at least one step ahead and has already at its disposal replacements in case that whether be single-digit or two-digit Claymores are incapacitated, killed in combat, turned rebellious, or the worst scenario conceived, becoming Awakened Ones.

[SimplyEd]

Yes, but an infection can do all that too. The point simply is, I don't think that this Claymore/human/youma arithmetics works. After all, Claymores (who are 1/2 human, or 2/3 human or whatever seem win most fights against youma so by that logic a full 1/1 human whould be even stronger. :eyespin:

As I see it it's human female plus traces of DNA/energy/magic/AT fields/polaron beams/whatever of a youma under right circumstances equals Claymore. But going into the details of the human -> Claymore transformation would probably kill more catgirls than a platoon of youma could. :)


How to make a Claymore, intermediate course

Actually, that's still not an infection. An infection/disease/affliction is something triggered by a virus, a host. A virus might change ones genetic setup. But that's not what's happening for Claymores.
Youki is not a virus. You cannot get infected with it. Normal youma don't turn humans whom they have had contact with into their kind. Humans are a foodsource for Youma while they detest the scent of youki in the bodys of Claymores. Hence why they don't eat Claymores.
This simple correlation should be proof enough why it's not an affliction.
The process to create a Claymore is, most probably, of an arcane nature..alchemy if you will. Human and Youma flesh and blood being merged and altered instead of infected.

[PGilis]

I was thinking, and that's my 0.02 cents...

How yomas came to exist in the first place?
I really want to know. They are beings from the underworld or what?


Do humans really can turn into Yomas by infection or something like that?
Maybe that story of humans turning into yomas someday is a big mistake.
After all, loli-Claire never became a yoma... even thought she was used and abused by one. And yomas can disguise themselves like humans, so is very easy to confuse a situation and think a yoma disguised as a human, was a human all the time and turned into a yoma later.
And besides, if a human can really turn into a yoma, why the Organization ordered Claymores to never kill humans? Would be a lot easier to kill a human turning into a yoma than a fully turned yoma.


Can Claymore become pregnant?
Who knows? I think never in the story of the organization a female Claymore got too close of a male (human or claymore) to discover.
That... or they hide the answer pretty well. Maybe - like Negativedark said - they even made all the females steriles during the process of turning them into Claymores so they can't have kids!
I think it's up to RAKI to discover the answer, sooner or later. ;) I just hope isn't HE the one to get pregnant, instead! :D


When a yoma eat a human, he gains all his/her memories so he can disguise himself as that human. So what happens if a yoma kill and eat a Claymore?
He will gain all is abilities, experiences and power, turning himself into a new kind of creature, more powerful than a claymore?

[flick]

I don't think Claymores can become pregnant... under the vague impression that there's a whole lot going on in the stomach (lower abdomen) area that probably means (as someone mentioned above) that various things were removed. I'm going for the cell theory - because I guess when they fully transform, it means the Yoma cells might well have become the dominant dna or something scientific like that, rather than the human part?
We know that male ones weren't successful... and well, guys tend to have more testosterone, so could that be a contributing factor towards the acceleration to

full Yoma-dom? I remember reading somewhere that the transformation is meant to be a pleasurable experience, indicating that certain organs should still be present, particularly for male Yomas :)

We can also tell when a yoma is killed simply by the colour of the blood... haemoglobins cause the red colour for humans, so am wondering if there's any organism that is purple ... alas the only thing I can think of is aubergines or the common egg plant :p

[Negativedark]

Klingons in Star Trek 6 had purple blood. I belive it was because of Magnese. But that was also the only time Klingons had purple blood to my recolection. Cephilipods witch have copper based blood have green blood.

You know a Claymore might be able to get around grossing out any prospective partners during the act by the simple methods of turning out the lights or keeping their shirts on.

[Deathkillz]

Well, there could be three schools of theory how half-human-half-yoma Claymores are created:

(a) Technology: the organization had been secretly conducting genetic experiments as humanity's answer to prevent extinction in the face of their natural predators.

(b) Magic : It just happens. The organization splices a yoma tissue sample into a healthy human body which, instead of being rejected by the immunity system, blends into the human host.

(c) Natural : A well-hidden secret that yomas and humans genes are compatible enough to actually produce offsprings.

going backwards...

c) youma offsprings? now whould would be willing to mate with a youma...let alone would a youma be willing to mate with a ugly human? ;)

b) magic? i cant see it happening in this world...so far i havent seen anything that can be considered magic...physically impossible yet but no lazer beams :3

a) most possibly the truth...technology to fuse youma genes with a human thus creating a claymore sounds about right ~

but with this said and done how come youma's arent eventually extinct? they have to be multiplying somewhere otherwise they should all be dead as time went along...its not like they are vampires and are able to turn their victims into new youmas right? O_o

[SimplyEd]

On the subject of how youki interacts with the physique.

I'll put it in spoiler tags, because i no longer know what i can say open, and what i can't.
Only read the spoiler if you....want to get spoiled^^
Anyway, this thread is already quite dangerous in itself, so you may want to take extensive discussions to spoiler threads, should they not contribute to the guidelines any longer.
A great deal remains speculation anyway.


Let's see. In the japanese version it's stated that for the creation of a Claymore you need a youmas flesh and blood.
Both seem to have a supernatural property that can be merged with a humans body via an unknown method. That method should be unnatural since there is no known case of a natural combination of both species.

We don't know which part of flesh you would need from the youma. My best guess is a freshly extracted brain/brain tissue and blood. My guess actually stems from Clare being merged with parts of Teresas head.

If these specimens carry such a property, maybe it can be distilled..but that's another matter.

The abdomen part of a Claymore seems to be special and is usually covered up because it is most likely disfigured or worse. This must be the place where Claymorization begins. Maybe this is also the place from where all youki is generated and relinked into other body parts.
Anyway, youki can be manipulated. Let loose and subdued. We know that a youki output of over 80% results in an uncontrollable transformation.

Conclusion: The amount of youki in a Clamores body has a peak of 100% output. After that we normally witness the birth of a new species with the ability to seemingly go beyond those 100% base youki. Youki constantly leaking out of the body in vast amounts.
Human shape being a energy-saving mode.

Awakened seem to be able to increase the production of youki, while the Claymore equivalent is actually a removal of an internal inhibitor that controls youki output.

That could be the case because Awakened are closer to their youma part, whereas Claymore are closer to their human part.

Abyssals seem to go beyond that even.

Youki has to be restrained inside the human body, or it will go to it's 100% peak, leading to a full transformation.

Conclusion: The release of the inhibitor floods the desired body parts with youki.
It then alters this body parts composition because the human physique would be unable to maintain stable and intact with that kind of power boost.
This can only happen for a Claymore, who are unnaturally merged with youma parts.
As i deducted in an earlier post, youki is not an affliction. Therefore i don't think it would be enough to simply introduce it into a human organism and the result would be a Claymore.
No, there must be something else that allows this phenomenon.


Here's even more

About the abdomen/belly. In Japan the belly is quite special. The japanese name being "hara". “By Hara the Japanese understand an all-inclusive general attitude which enables one to open oneself to the power and wholeness of the original life-force and to testify to it by the fulfillment, the meaningfulness and the mastery displayed in one’s own life.”
There's a connection to chakra and it's relationship to energy fields, universal and subjective.

Placing the origin for the artificially inserted youki here is quite interesting.


It just keeps coming and coming..


Back to the future..erhh .. topic.
The transformation is also quite noteworthy. It can be reversed even after the body changed completely. So long as the Claymore retains her self-awareness.

Willpower and emotions play a huge role in how the Claymore will finally end up. The power of self-awareness and raw emotions are among to most potent forces a human can muster. Enlightenment and experience are also quite effective.
"Der Wille zur Macht" so to speak. Just in this case, it's rather the will to remain what you are and not give in to the urge.

Emotions, in this case love,benevolence(acceptance), calmness, joy and the like, pull the Claymore back from the sensations the awakening has to offer.
Willpower, an attribute of wisdom and awareness, does the same. It's rather tied to reason, contrary to emotions.

The transformations effects are nullified almost instantly once the Claymores mental state returns to "normal" values.
This superficial change is obviously not permanent, at least for those who haven't awakened mentally.

True Awakened and Abyssals are probably unable to truly revert to Claymore form, let alone human.

Abyssals only mimic the human form and still remain awakened. This type of "transformation" is merely a fake, like that of normal youmas who mimic humans. It just looks human, but isn't. That's because, even if it's an energy-saving form, the sheer amount of energy that has to be contained within would probably shred a human body to pieces. This form becomes a new inhibitor, supressing the leaking energy.

[Twisted Reality]

Thats possible. Even against normal humans, a weak yuoma shouldn't walk away without any form of damage. We saw Galk (spelling on hes name?) and the other one in the "church" episode. They can do some good fighting.
So what your saying may were well be true. That some males/females somehow got contaminated and then continued on to evolve to the state we know as "awakened". Might still be going on even if the current way of making claymores is more "advanced". So who knows, that awakened male we have seen might have just been a normal man with a pitchfork in the wrong place at the wrong time :heh:

Really hope they will give us the answer on the whole male awakening process in the next episode
I don't find your original example terribly tenable since this particular Yoma was eating church guards on a frequent enough basis to be a "Voracious Eater." Galk and Mr. knife-dude only fought so well courtesy of Clare. Before then, Clare had to push Mr. knife-throw out of the way or he would have been splattered. Galk still ended up with a number of holes in him, despite his clanking armor. Both were little more than distractions.

And perhaps you're right, this discovery of Yoma-flesh grafting techniques might've been an accident. How do you think scientific curiosity gets piqued about half the time? That's not really the important point in my mind. However the scientific curiosity got piqued and somebody decided to start a conspiracy over it -- that is important.

The Organization figured there was something to the old myths and legends about Yoma and have pioneered such amazing medical and scientific breakthroughs as to be the envy of the primitive world. I mean, it's pretty amazing stuff when you consider that most people of the setting might still buy into the miasma theory of disease and probably don't even know that organisms are composed of living cells. Well that and they apparently have nylon and enough metallurgy to produce enough high-grade steel to make such oversized buster swords. Seems like several people in the Organization are worthy of being Nobel Prize winners.

I wonder what kind of pet project they've got cooking on the side?

Anyhoo, the Yoma flesh also responds to the cognitive functions of a human mind. Wonder if the stuff somehow patches into the nervous system? Even normal Yoma "eat" the brains of their victims to gain their memories. There's gotta be some sort of mind-Yoma flesh interaction going there.

Ahhh...mad science! Isn't it beautiful?

[TinyRedLeaf]

Interesting theories. In any case, whatever the specifics of the warriors' disfigurement after turning into hybrids, I'm almost 100% certain that it's a plot device to prevent drooling otakus from demanding more *ahem* fanservice. :D

Which I wholeheartedly support. Call me conservative or what not, but a woman is more sexy for what she doesn't reveal, than for what she does. ;)

On a related note, I wonder if the hybridisation process is painful because it literally dissolves your bones? Because I never see any bones whenever a youma or Claymore gets chopped up. :uhoh:

In fact,

If you take a look at Deneve's newly regenerated left arm, immediately after it was bitten off by the Male Awakened, you'd notice that it seems to be composed entirely of muscle tissue.

....which kind of makes sense from a biological point of view. If youmas had bones, I imagine it would be so much more difficult for them to extend and contort their flesh at will.

Deneve's new left arm -- all flesh without skin -- is probably a strong hint of how all our ladies look, under their skin-tight shirts. :p

[flick]

If you take a look at Deneve's newly regenerated left arm, immediately after it was bitten off by the Male Awakened, you'd notice that it seems to be composed entirely of muscle tissue.

....which kind of makes sense from a biological point of view. If youmas had bones, I imagine it would be so much more difficult for them to extend and contort their flesh at will.

Deneve's new left arm -- all flesh without skin -- is probably a strong hint of how all our ladies look, under their skin-tight shirts. :p


This is a da*mned interesting perspective :D Thanks!

[stormy001_M1A2]

So Love will be Claire's salvation and recovery? Her love for Raki that is.

[lapchern]

i hope this is the right place to pose this question...

you know how claymores are 50/50 human/yoma and are in danger of becoming 100% yoma? well dont you think it's possible that a claymore can become 100% human as well? my guess is that in the future if the manga ends, clare might have the chance to become 100% human... or she'll die.

[SimplyEd]

i hope this is the right place to pose this question...

you know how claymores are 50/50 human/yoma and are in danger of becoming 100% yoma? well dont you think it's possible that a claymore can become 100% human as well? my guess is that in the future if the manga ends, clare might have the chance to become 100% human... or she'll die.


Well

No, they are hybrids and remain as such. When their youki is released above 80% their body changes according to it because the normal human body would probably not withstand the stress. They don't turn into 100% youma. They become something entirely different actually, still they remain a hybrid. Closer to their youma part in appearance and matters of youki usage.

Claymore may never become 100% human again because the manga makes it look like the merging process is absolute. So long as they don't actually utilize their youki, they are practically human in appearance and mentality. They seem to be tougher than normal humans even without using youki.
Hence why Teresa could fight equally witout using much of it during her career.

They won't die as long as they are not killed. The danger of transforming is not progressive, meaning that they are just fine when they stay calm and composed and not let their darker emotions etc. get the better of them.

[lousy]

Well. Theres one point that has to addressed. The transformation, however it is, wadever it is, must somehow, allow the "yoma" to take over the body. To have a mind of its own.
We know its not only like.. like werewolves wanting to to bite others, or vampires wanting to drink blood. It changes their mind so much that they turn their enemies into allies, and their former allies into enemies.
If it indeed is some sort of genetic technology, (or at least this is what i understand of "genetic technology") it would just change the body, maybe giving the craving for guts.. but to totally change the person?
It seems more like... injecting another being into the person. somehow, through the blood perhaps. I dont really know about Japanese culture, is like blood representative of like hte soul, mind or something?

Also, another question to ponder is, where does all the yoma come from? Yomas are killed, and er.. it would be natural to assume that their dead bodies are disposed of... esp since the little black men come only afew days later. Maybe it isnt exactly yoma, maybe its like.. some special breeding of yoma done by the org that allows the transfusion?

[Tempest35]

Interesting theories. In any case, whatever the specifics of the warriors' disfigurement after turning into hybrids, I'm almost 100% certain that it's a plot device to prevent drooling otakus from demanding more *ahem* fanservice. :D
...

In fact,

If you take a look at Deneve's newly regenerated left arm, immediately after it was bitten off by the Male Awakened, you'd notice that it seems to be composed entirely of muscle tissue.

....which kind of makes sense from a biological point of view. If youmas had bones, I imagine it would be so much more difficult for them to extend and contort their flesh at will.

Deneve's new left arm -- all flesh without skin -- is probably a strong hint of how all our ladies look, under their skin-tight shirts. :p


Yes, but after a partial awakening, Deneve managed to fully heal herself, skin and all. And in the N-campaign, she immediately healed the damaged suffered from the first Youma, skin and all.
It could be that all normal non-partially awakened Claymore have that skin disfigurement but for those who can pull themselve back from a partial awakening, maybe it is possible that they can 'redress' the disfigurement. Deneve might be different in that she's a defensive type and has an insane regen ability above most fantasy-esqe trolls.

[Deathkillz]

i hope this is the right place to pose this question...

you know how claymores are 50/50 human/yoma and are in danger of becoming 100% yoma? well dont you think it's possible that a claymore can become 100% human as well? my guess is that in the future if the manga ends, clare might have the chance to become 100% human... or she'll die.
erm not really possible imo...once you become part youma it can only spread...like a virus...all it takes is time til the youma part completely takes over ~ thats her fate...

and about claymores covering their abdomens...thats the place where youma enjoys eating so could it be...that claymores are made from the victims of youmas? it was said that clare was the first ever person who willingly became a claymore :uhoh:

[SimplyEd]

It's not a virus...

About the rest, i have already said everything i think on that matter.

[Deathkillz]

i said "like" ~ which means it functions the same way to eventually over take the whole body ~

[SimplyEd]

That's okay, but people may take it the wrong way and start making up weird theories based on a misunderstanding.

[Kayin]

Well some history on Yoma is definitely required to better understand them. They have intelligence and aren't mindless beasts, although its safe to say they are more beastial in their minds and bodies then humans are. Of course this makes one wonder if Yoma have any type of social structure or hierarchy. Even though Awakened are clearly more powerful then Claymores or Yoma, one has to wonder how Yoma treat an Awakened. They're not natural Yoma, but rather a super powerful hybrid that yields to the Yoma side rather then the human. Its quite possible that if Yoma do have any type of society, the pecking order is definitely determined by how powerful the Yoma is.

Could really strong and natural Yoma be commanding regular Yoma from somewhere? Or are all Yoma rogue monsters that band together only when they need too? Better information on Yoma origin and world would probably help explain a lot of things that determines how Claymores are made.

[flick]

I'm sure someone has brought this up already, but rather than "spread like a virus", I'd like to say that the yoma cells are more like parasites leeching off the human host?


Parasitism is one version of symbiosis ("living together"), a phenomenon in which two organisms which are phylogenetically unrelated co-exist over a prolonged period of time, usually the lifetime of one of the individuals.


On the same page, under 'Evolutionary Aspects'
It is important to note that "benefit" and "harm" in the definition of parasitism apply to lineages, not individuals. Thus, if an organism becomes physically stronger as a result of infection but loses reproductive capabilities (as results from some flatworm infections of snails), that organism is harmed in an evolutionary sense and is thus parasitized. The harm caused to a host by a parasite can take many forms, from direct pathology, including various specialized types of tissue damage, such as castration, to more subtle effects such as modification of host behaviour.


Interesting! :D Not sure what other people think though...

[SimplyEd]

Hmm, well, there's a little correspondence in theory but alas, youma cells are no parasites.
They don't naturally leech of a human host and even in a hybrid body they rather coexist without intervention, unless of course the individual wants to consciously activate her youki.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Well some history on Yoma is definitely required to better understand them.

You know, I wouldn't mind knowing more about Youma myself, but as things have progressed so far, I gather that the only good Youma is a dead and diced Youma, ie, we don't really get much time to ask them about their families and how they've been and stuff. :D

[flick]

On that note, I agree that maybe the youma cells (apologies for the previouslywrong spelling :p) aren't really parasites. However, with regards to activating youki, I would suggest that perhaps the Claymore actively keeps the youki suppressed rather than activating it when necessary. Not unlike an immune system response?

Of course one could then go on to argue that it means the immune system is compromised etc. when Claymores start moving onto % youma and such.

However, I do remember reading somewhere that everytime a Claymore uses her youki, it has some sort of permanent effect on her body, which builds up overtime, hence they don't live too long because ultimately they will become 100% youma and before that happens etc.

Just had a completely random thought.... youmas eat the entrails/guts ... does this include the stomach etc. or just the intestines/pancreas etc. If it includes the former, then presumably they have to be pretty resistant to acidic conditions.

[dutchman]

Even though Awakened are clearly more powerful then Claymores or Yoma, one has to wonder how Yoma treat an Awakened. They're not natural Yoma, but rather a super powerful hybrid that yields to the Yoma side rather then the human. Its quite possible that if Yoma do have any type of society, the pecking order is definitely determined by how powerful the Yoma is.


Kayin in the manga you can see a example of how Yoma see Awakened beings.
In the manga you see Riful and Dauf (her man) being surrounded and protected by an small army of Yoma. Based on this you can determine that Yomas yield to superior strenght. And follow the ones who have the most power.

They probably consider Awakened as a kind of uber-yoma.

[SimplyEd]

On that note, I agree that maybe the youma cells (apologies for the previouslywrong spelling :p) aren't really parasites. However, with regards to activating youki, I would suggest that perhaps the Claymore actively keeps the youki suppressed rather than activating it when necessary. Not unlike an immune system response?

Of course one could then go on to argue that it means the immune system is compromised etc. when Claymores start moving onto % youma and such.

However, I do remember reading somewhere that everytime a Claymore uses her youki, it has some sort of permanent effect on her body, which builds up overtime, hence they don't live too long because ultimately they will become 100% youma and before that happens etc.

Just had a completely random thought.... youmas eat the entrails/guts ... does this include the stomach etc. or just the intestines/pancreas etc. If it includes the former, then presumably they have to be pretty resistant to acidic conditions.



Let's see. Don't worry about spelling too much. Everything was perfectly understandable^^

About youki. As i stated in a different post before, i would think that there's an inhinitor which, well, keeps the youki flow in check. It can be dosed and relinked into various body parts on will. That way, a more proper term would be "released".

The immune system is ultimately a response to an act of intrusion. A collection of various bodily mechanisms to fend off infections, diseases and the like.It's not something that we can consciously influence very much. It's very much automated and constantly evolving (as are viruses and the like).

Youki is more or less a type of supernatural energy that can manipulate living tissue in various ways.
It's introduced artificially into a humans organism along with youma tissue. On that note, you might think that there would be a hostile reaction from a humans immune system. Alas, we have not enough information on how high the death toll for newly created Claymore actually is.

My guess is that since the Org literally merges the two types of organisms, they have found a way to circumvent such occurences. As it stands, the youki is normally held in check inside the Claymore body. Once it is released in large quantities, we can witness a transformation of the Claymores physique.

These changes do have an impact on the Claymore, namely that her body gets used to such kind of states. Half-Awakened, living for some time like this can experience a heightened form of mental stability/control even when they reach dangerous levels of youki.

The transformation process is not cumulative in a sense that whenever they use it the next time it will add to a percentage of getting transformed.
Awakening can happen instantly, over a very short amount of time if you don't watch it.

That is, of course, not to say that being Half-Awakened only has positve aspects. Changes can happen more regularly. You may be able to keep your mentality intact but the body will transform nonetheless. With the growing amount of leaking youki, you will loose control over time, no matter what.

At that time of Awakening we will have a complete merge of physique and mentality. A true blend of human and youma, so to say. They don't become 100% youma when youki % rise. A Claymore is a hybrid, gearing towards the human half.
Rising youki transforms human tissue so that it can withstand those amounts of energy.During that time, until youki goes over 80% and the final transformation kicks in, the Claymore is more geared towards youma aspects.

The end product is not a youma however, but a different type of species. A more complete hybrid if you will.
All in all, a Claymore is more or less a restricted hybrid.

[Anh_Minh]

Any idea how those youki suppressing pills would affect youmas? Wouldn't it be a good alternative to Claymores? Have everyone eat them whenever there's a youma around. Whoever keels over dead was it.

In fact, have everyone take some regularly. It won't protect you from youmas, but if they eat you, you'll take them with you.

[Mandrake]

Any idea how those youki suppressing pills would affect youmas? Wouldn't it be a good alternative to Claymores? Have everyone eat them whenever there's a youma around. Whoever keels over dead was it.

In fact, have everyone take some regularly. It won't protect you from youmas, but if they eat you, you'll take them with you.

Would probably need an overdose to get it working on a youma.

[Twisted Reality]

i hope this is the right place to pose this question...

you know how claymores are 50/50 human/yoma and are in danger of becoming 100% yoma? well dont you think it's possible that a claymore can become 100% human as well? my guess is that in the future if the manga ends, clare might have the chance to become 100% human... or she'll die.
This is the sort of ending that makes "dramatic sense" and "symbolic sense" but I personally find to be annoying. This is the kind of cop-out ending that was given in the original Battle Angel Alita manga series before Yukito Kishiro saw fit to start a second Alita series (apparently the author fell ill near the end of the first series).

Battle Angel Alita, in a word, was a story about a kung-fu (Panzer Kunst technically) cyborg girl with amnesia who goes on a journey of self-discovery within the backdrop of dystopian society. Along the way philosophical questions on the nature of humanity are raised and heroic fights break out....blah...blah...blah. Protagonist triumphs and achieves her sense of identity or humanity or whatever. Then...BAM! For some reason that runs contrary to the logic of the whole damned fantasy world, she becomes human. (Nanotechnology. What can't it do?)

It cheapens the whole experience when you've laboriously spent time just demonstrating how there's no fundamental spiritual difference between humans and cyborgs. Especially when you've basically been telling us that this is the kind of hard-knock world where being "turned into a real girl!" is probably just a hollow solution to your problems.

I hate Ergo Proxy for just the same reasons. Why bother being explicit when we can just bog everything down in needless symbolism and make the viewer go insane trying to figure out the whole morass?

I guess the point I'm trying to make...in a sort of roundabout way, is that artsy symbolism is overrated and pretentious. We have enough of it, and I sure hope we don't get that "I turned into a real human!" deal in Claymore.

[Twisted Reality]

i hope this is the right place to pose this question...

you know how claymores are 50/50 human/yoma and are in danger of becoming 100% yoma? well dont you think it's possible that a claymore can become 100% human as well? my guess is that in the future if the manga ends, clare might have the chance to become 100% human... or she'll die.
This is the sort of ending that makes "dramatic sense" and "symbolic sense" but I personally find to be annoying. This is the kind of cop-out ending that was given in the original Battle Angel Alita manga series before Yukito Kishiro saw fit to start a second Alita series (apparently the author fell ill near the end of the first series).

Battle Angel Alita, in a word, was story about a kung-fu cyborg girl (Panzer Kunst technically) who goes on a journey of self-discovery within the backdrop of dystopian post-apocalyptic society. Along the way philosophical questions on the nature of humanity are raised and heroic fights break out....blah...blah...blah. Protagonist triumphs and achieves her sense of identity or humanity or whatever. Then...BAM! For some reason that runs contrary to the logic of the whole damned fantasy world, she becomes human.

It cheapens the whole experience when you've laboriously spent time just demonstrating how there's no fundamental spiritual difference between humans and cyborgs. Especially when you've basically been telling us that this is the kind of hard-knock world where being "turned into a real girl!" is probably just a hollow solution to your problems.

Claymore, is basically the same tale of girl (also a Sword-Fu chick) with the curse or Pinocchio syndrome who goes on a journey self-discovery to unravel the murky intrigues of the Organization and their attendant mysteries related to tampering with Yomas. Okay, good story so far. I started liking Claymore when Clare stopped being the generic "silent toy soldier" and became the black duck weakling when she was sneered at by Helen and Deneve for being a mere forty-seven. Wow...cardboard cutouts that actually have personality? That's a nice reversal of expectations...now can we please keep up the trend?

I guess the point I'm trying to make...in a sort of roundabout way, is that artsy symbolism is overrated and pretentious. Boring archetypes that are regurgitated from every known cliche, do not, a novel story make. We have enough of it, and I sure hope we don't get that "I turned into a real human!" deal in Claymore.

[SimplyEd]

I guess the point I'm trying to make...in a sort of roundabout way, is that artsy symbolism is overrated and pretentious. Boring archetypes that are regurgitated from every known cliche, do not, a novel story make. We have enough of it, and I sure hope we don't get that "I turned into a real human!" deal in Claymore.

Artsy symbolysm?

Anyway, just enjoy Claymore as entertainment, would be my advice. Surprisingly, there are lots of intriguing details to be found in Claymore, if one takes the time to look for them.

On the "real human" part: Well, most Claymores are actually more human than "real humans". Not in a physical sense, mind you.

Just think about it that way: "Humanity" is probably the most prevalent boon of this story. Claymores cling to it, as to not become the monsters they hunt themselves. Others have lost it and entertain a twisted illusion from long past times. Humans, who should be the very incarnation of "humanity" can be even more monstrous than the next Awakened.

In a nutshell, it's not so much "i want to turn into a real human" but rather "what is humanity worth striving for".

[Twisted Reality]

Artsy symbolysm?

Anyway, just enjoy Claymore as entertainment, would be my advice. Surprisingly, there are lots of intriguing details to be found in Claymore, if one takes the time to look for them.

On the "real human" part: Well, most Claymores are actually more human than "real humans". Not in a physical sense, mind you.

Just think about it that way: "Humanity" is probably the most prevalent boon of this story. Claymores cling to it, as to not become the monsters they hunt themselves. Others have lost it and entertain a twisted illusion from long past times. Humans, who should be the very incarnation of "humanity" can be even more monstrous than the next Awakened.

In a nutshell, it's not so much "i want to turn into a real human" but rather "what is humanity worth striving for".
I don't much care if philosophical question of humanity or using humanity as a point of conflict happens (hell, 99% of the anime I have watched tend to broach the topic at least once). I just don't want a literal Pinocchio happening since I think that pretty much undermines the whole point of doing the whole "Ohhhh...I am cursed with bestial powers (or cold mechanical cogs)!!!" bit in the first place.

If you literally reward the protagonist with 100% humanity to signify their spiritual growth, it just seems to cheapen the whole struggle that got them there in the first place. It's just too Disney for me. If cyborgs, demonic-hybrids, half-breeds, teenagers with symbiosis with an alien-parasite and so forth; are all basically human (or at least not necessarily morally inferior by nature), then what's the point in rewarding pure-blooded humanity? Just so we can get a "happy ending?" I thought the whole point was that they found their self-gratification in spite of their so-called "curse" and are mature enough to deal with their problems, however unique.

I mean, if one of the major themes of the show is that humans can sometimes be monstrous than weird half-human hybrids, than what's the point of making the superficial gesture of making Clare full-blooded human? It would be a superficial gesture, no?

[SimplyEd]

I don't much care if philosophical question of humanity or using humanity as a point of conflict happens (hell, 99% of the anime I have watched tend to broach the topic at least once).


Well, there you go. I have no idea what exactly you're being cynical about then.
It's already hard enough to pull off a half-way original storyline nowadays.

Claymore is by no means the holy grail in terms of originality but it merges and blends some rather intriguing parts of many good tales.
The world of Claymore may appear "simple" "one-tracked" but that's because it's a world of misery. Claymores represent a tiny flicker of hope for humans while they themselves are being created against their own will in the first place (exception being Clare). They are being decimated by Awakened and worse on a regular basis and still it's their asses being the first at the front line when it comes down to taking that challenge.

Clares quest is not that of half-assed morality or some long-winded self-assessment, no. She's literally out for revenge. Poetical revenge if you will.
The other Claymores, even though being the chess-pieces of the Org, still maintain the notion that humanity is worth to fight for. They all, without exception, felt the loss that was brought on by the youma.
Should humans merely let them go? They see themselves as natural predators of humans. Does prey have the right to fight back?

As you can see, self-discovery is their least problem. They are very preoccupied with survival. For their survival, Claymores are sometimes pushed across the line of becoming monsters themselves.

I just don't want a literal Pinocchio happening since I think that pretty much undermines the whole point of doing the whole "Ohhhh...I am cursed with bestial powers (or cold mechanical cogs)!!!" bit in the first place.

Funny, but that is not what Claymore is about. Claymores don't maintain the illusion that they are cursed with their hybrid bodies. They are very aware of its danger but otherwise they know all to well that without it, they'd all be long dead.
None of them strive to become "real humans" again. They are still human to begin with. And they are trying to keep it that way, because it keeps them from becoming their own worst enemies. Pinocchio went out to find his place in the world, to be something more than we wasn't.
Claymores know exactly what they are, as do all the other parties. All of them carve their own destiny by staying alive.

If you literally reward the protagonist with 100% humanity to signify their spiritual growth, it just seems to cheapen the whole struggle that got them there in the first place. It's just too Disney for me. If cyborgs, demonic-hybrids, half-breeds, teenagers with symbiosis with an alien-parasite and so forth; are all basically human (or at least not necessarily morally inferior by nature), then what's the point in rewarding pure-blooded humanity? Just so we can get a "happy ending?" I thought the whole point was that they found their self-gratification in spite of their so-called "curse" and are mature enough to deal with their problems, however unique.

Humanity is both beautiful and ugly. Claymores cling to the hope that the positive side of humanity has to offer.
In what way are humans rewarded? They don't have the means to activly fight back. It's the Claymores who fight. They will fight youmas and worse if they get a chance to. Even if it's against the consent of the Org.
The reward is of no consequence at that point, because they are putting their lives on the line.
So why should humans be rewarded if they are so weak you ask? They aren't.

Yet, the greatest asset of a Claymore remains her humanity, which is what connects them with humans. In the end, it's them who are rewarded with having survived these ordeals, against all odds. They are not striving to become something else, they want to keep what they still have.

I mean, if one of the major themes of the show is that humans can sometimes be monstrous than weird half-human hybrids, than what's the point of making the superficial gesture of making Clare full-blooded human? It would be a superficial gesture, no?

It's not so much one of the main themes. It's reality. Some humans are probably not worth to be saved at all. Should that be of a consequence for Claymores?
Teresa enacted retribution on those bandits, and rightly so. Was she wrong because Claymores are supposed to never harm humans?

That is anybodys guess.

Lastly, there's no notion for becoming "full-blooded".

[SimplyEd]

On the topic of youki-reading.

Classes are starting shortly, please take a seat, snacks will be served afterwards (fresh intestines for youma being served separately).


Well then. As it stands, we should all be aware that "reading" is a form of youki "sensing", an attribute being shared by all Claymores to , at least, the slightest degree.

It's one of the most elemental tools for their own survival, since they uncover youmas in human form with it.

The Org maintains at least one "eye" every generation. "Eyes" are specialized youki sensors. Their primary feat being extreme range and accurate awareness of characteristics of the related parties and precise documentation as "intel officers".
As recon specialists they should take a privileged role inside the Org. Any "unbecoming conduct" against the Org will also be punished more severly i'd guess. Losing Eyes to the enemy would be no laughing matter.

Youki sensing is passive. Claymores don't need to utilize their own youki to access it. It's more of an automated process.

Youki reading, the special ability inherited to Clare from Teresa, shares many aspects of the more traditional sensing. In essence it's also a passive feat.
Clare reads the flow of youki inside an opponents body. Her "reading" then translates this data into a physical reaction of her own. In other words, sensing and reacting are intertwined. Her reaction starts the moment she's still reading to achieve "foresight".
These are various processes that play together in an extremely short amount of time. Hence my sentiment that it is "faster" then sensing if you take a look at what's involved in the whole process. A sensor would take longer for the reaction part.

Reading is somewhat dependant on the users abilities. It has to be trained and the user has to keep her cool, during a fight. She also has to stay in top physical condition if possible.

Reading is also reliant on a focused flow inside the opponents body. Normally that wouldn't be much of a problem, since coordinated attacks on their part would require such focus.

With Abyssals, it can happen that they leak an enormous amount of youki. Uncontrolled, unfocused. Their actions become erratic and somewhat unpredictable. Thankfully, they also become less accurate. Still, this is a time of heightened danger for a reader, should they primarily rely on this ability.

Which is also why it is a must that readers keep up with their conventional fighting prowess. Which is even more true, should they be forced to fight against opponents that don't utilize their youki. In such a case, a reader should concentrate more on using her own offensive moves to create a situation that forces her opponent to use their own youki again.

Short summary so far:

Pros: great short range sensors; foresight in close combat; extremly strong against opponents with strong youki and focused attacks.

Cons: mediocre-good at long range; bad against uncontrolled youki leak and erratic movements that would follow the reading (Ophelias Sazanami); very much reliant on conventional fighting abilities and constitution.

[Tempest35]

Well, there you go. I have no idea what exactly you're being cynical about then.
It's already hard enough to pull off a half-way original storyline nowadays.

Claymore is by no means the holy grail in terms of originality but it merges and blends some rather intriguing parts of many good tales.
The world of Claymore may appear "simple" "one-tracked" but that's because it's a world of misery. Claymores represent a tiny flicker of hope for humans while they themselves are being created against their own will in the first place (exception being Clare). They are being decimated by Awakened and worse on a regular basis and still it's their asses being the first at the front line when it comes down to taking that challenge.

Clares quest is not that of half-assed morality or some long-winded self-assessment, no. She's literally out for revenge. Poetical revenge if you will.
The other Claymores, even though being the chess-pieces of the Org, still maintain the notion that humanity is worth to fight for. They all, without exception, felt the loss that was brought on by the youma.
Should humans merely let them go? They see themselves as natural predators of humans. Does prey have the right to fight back?

As you can see, self-discovery is their least problem. They are very preoccupied with survival. For their survival, Claymores are sometimes pushed across the line of becoming monsters themselves.



Funny, but that is not what Claymore is about. Claymores don't maintain the illusion that they are cursed with their hybrid bodies. They are very aware of its danger but otherwise they know all to well that without it, they'd all be long dead.
None of them strive to become "real humans" again. They are still human to begin with. And they are trying to keep it that way, because it keeps them from becoming their own worst enemies. Pinocchio went out to find his place in the world, to be something more than we wasn't.
Claymores know exactly what they are, as do all the other parties. All of them carve their own destiny by staying alive.



Humanity is both beautiful and ugly. Claymores cling to the hope that the positive side of humanity has to offer.
In what way are humans rewarded? They don't have the means to activly fight back. It's the Claymores who fight. They will fight youmas and worse if they get a chance to. Even if it's against the consent of the Org.
The reward is of no consequence at that point, because they are putting their lives on the line.
So why should humans be rewarded if they are so weak you ask? They aren't.

Yet, the greatest asset of a Claymore remains her humanity, which is what connects them with humans. In the end, it's them who are rewarded with having survived these ordeals, against all odds. They are not striving to become something else, they want to keep what they still have.



It's not so much one of the main themes. It's reality. Some humans are probably not worth to be saved at all. Should that be of a consequence for Claymores?
Teresa enacted retribution on those bandits, and rightly so. Was she wrong because Claymores are supposed to never harm humans?

That is anybodys guess.

Lastly, there's no notion for becoming "full-blooded".


Alright, yet another good one ( I can't maintain a good roll to save my skin) :heh:

On the subject of Clare's quest being morally righteous, let's not forget our own Miss Justice who went to the darkside for it... It's safe to say that every single one of these girls have had a traumatic past invovling Youma that killed their family and loved ones. So naturally, they all have a revenge streak a mile wide. Clare's case is really not special, even bloodthirsty Ophelia shared her revenge list in that she too wanted to remove Priscilla's head from the rest of her body.

Claymores are really feared because they manifest an inhuman monster outwardly with physical traits to boot. If they just did regular patrols, without the stigma of doing a job for the Org who likes being in the shadows to begin with, some of them would be hailed as heroes like Teresa was in that fateful town.

Teresa was only 'wrong' because it went against the ORG's rules in such behavior. In everything else, she was right. Heck, if I knew the situation, I would have taken a sword to the rest of the bandits myself just so that she wouldn't have to take the blame for it. Yeah, I know that she killed the first two, but who's gonna tell? Me? :D

[SimplyEd]

Alright, yet another good one ( I can't maintain a good roll to save my skin) :heh:

On the subject of Clare's quest being morally righteous, let's not forget our own Miss Justice who went to the darkside for it... It's safe to say that every single one of these girls have had a traumatic past invovling Youma that killed their family and loved ones. So naturally, they all have a revenge streak a mile wide. Clare's case is really not special, even bloodthirsty Ophelia shared her revenge list in that she too wanted to remove Priscilla's head from the rest of her body.

Claymores are really feared because they manifest an inhuman monster outwardly with physical traits to boot. If they just did regular patrols, without the stigma of doing a job for the Org who likes being in the shadows to begin with, some of them would be hailed as heroes like Teresa was in that fateful town.

Teresa was only 'wrong' because it went against the ORG's rules in such behavior. In everything else, she was right. Heck, if I knew the situation, I would have taken a sword to the rest of the bandits myself just so that she wouldn't have to take the blame for it. Yeah, I know that she killed the first two, but who's gonna tell? Me? :D

Precisely :p

[Negativedark]

Alright, yet another good one ( I can't maintain a good roll to save my skin) :heh:

On the subject of Clare's quest being morally righteous, let's not forget our own Miss Justice who went to the darkside for it... It's safe to say that every single one of these girls have had a traumatic past invovling Youma that killed their family and loved ones. So naturally, they all have a revenge streak a mile wide. Clare's case is really not special, even bloodthirsty Ophelia shared her revenge list in that she too wanted to remove Priscilla's head from the rest of her body.

Claymores are really feared because they manifest an inhuman monster outwardly with physical traits to boot. If they just did regular patrols, without the stigma of doing a job for the Org who likes being in the shadows to begin with, some of them would be hailed as heroes like Teresa was in that fateful town.

Teresa was only 'wrong' because it went against the ORG's rules in such behavior. In everything else, she was right. Heck, if I knew the situation, I would have taken a sword to the rest of the bandits myself just so that she wouldn't have to take the blame for it. Yeah, I know that she killed the first two, but who's gonna tell? Me? :D

Actually She killed way more than two. When Claire wakes up, their surronded by bodies, and from the way they are dressed and armed, they were bandits. Also, Teresa seems to have been under survallence.
Another reason for the dislike of Claymores may come from the fact the Org charges so much. I mean from the sounds of things when Teresa mentions it, a hiring a Claymore can render a town nearly broke.

[Tempest35]

I was just saying that other than Armless bandit and Ivy Sword Bandit, I would have killed the rest personally so I could make it look like I did all of it and Teresa would be off the hook. That one guy was only there to collect the money, dumb luck he was still there when Teresa made her forte into art by making a bloody flower of bandits. :D

Thirty thousand could do that to a town in that kind of environment.(not an offical figure, I just threw something out that sounded decent).

As for expounding on Clare's sensing and reading ability, should we wait for Gatalea to showcase her true abilities before we push with more info on the subject?

[SimplyEd]

As for expounding on Clare's sensing and reading ability, should we wait for Gatalea to showcase her true abilities before we push with more info on the subject?

I don't think so. This is, after all, the biology thread. Future events need to be put into the box however.

Actually, it would probably have been better to just warn people in the thread header because spoilers become common knowledge pretty fast.

Anyway, for the upcoming lectures: On the Act of Awakening...or "Do you feel sleepy, punk?"

[Twisted Reality]

Well, there you go. I have no idea what exactly you're being cynical about then.
It's already hard enough to pull off a half-way original storyline nowadays.

Claymore is by no means the holy grail in terms of originality but it merges and blends some rather intriguing parts of many good tales.
The world of Claymore may appear "simple" "one-tracked" but that's because it's a world of misery. Claymores represent a tiny flicker of hope for humans while they themselves are being created against their own will in the first place (exception being Clare). They are being decimated by Awakened and worse on a regular basis and still it's their asses being the first at the front line when it comes down to taking that challenge.

Clares quest is not that of half-assed morality or some long-winded self-assessment, no. She's literally out for revenge. Poetical revenge if you will.
The other Claymores, even though being the chess-pieces of the Org, still maintain the notion that humanity is worth to fight for. They all, without exception, felt the loss that was brought on by the youma.
Should humans merely let them go? They see themselves as natural predators of humans. Does prey have the right to fight back?

As you can see, self-discovery is their least problem. They are very preoccupied with survival. For their survival, Claymores are sometimes pushed across the line of becoming monsters themselves.



Funny, but that is not what Claymore is about. Claymores don't maintain the illusion that they are cursed with their hybrid bodies. They are very aware of its danger but otherwise they know all to well that without it, they'd all be long dead.
None of them strive to become "real humans" again. They are still human to begin with. And they are trying to keep it that way, because it keeps them from becoming their own worst enemies. Pinocchio went out to find his place in the world, to be something more than we wasn't.
Claymores know exactly what they are, as do all the other parties. All of them carve their own destiny by staying alive.



Humanity is both beautiful and ugly. Claymores cling to the hope that the positive side of humanity has to offer.
In what way are humans rewarded? They don't have the means to activly fight back. It's the Claymores who fight. They will fight youmas and worse if they get a chance to. Even if it's against the consent of the Org.
The reward is of no consequence at that point, because they are putting their lives on the line.
So why should humans be rewarded if they are so weak you ask? They aren't.

Yet, the greatest asset of a Claymore remains her humanity, which is what connects them with humans. In the end, it's them who are rewarded with having survived these ordeals, against all odds. They are not striving to become something else, they want to keep what they still have.



It's not so much one of the main themes. It's reality. Some humans are probably not worth to be saved at all. Should that be of a consequence for Claymores?
Teresa enacted retribution on those bandits, and rightly so. Was she wrong because Claymores are supposed to never harm humans?

That is anybodys guess.

Lastly, there's no notion for becoming "full-blooded".

Well, it makes more sense if you go back and see what I was replying to originally, but whatever....

[SimplyEd]

Well, it makes more sense if you go back and see what I was replying to originally, but whatever....


Thanks, i understood just fine.
No worries, i basically said the same to lapchern as well. Peace ;)

[SimplyEd]

Well ,it's time for a new lesson. This time we shall dissect the Act of Awakening.
Fasten your seatbelts..barf bags are stored under your seats..oxygen masks will probably be out of order.


Thanks for joining in on this topic folks. On to the main beef.

Awakening marks the very end of a Claymores career and existance. That is not to say they die, but rather transform into something new..a dark butterfly (excuse this inappropriate usage of words..although, in case of Jean it's quite fitting^^)
A new type of complete hybrid. A new species.

The reasons why this happens are manyfold, yet there's one thing they all have in common: drastic release of youki and loss of self-awareness, in other words a loss of willpower and an overdose of negative and extreme emotions.

The feelings that a Claymore has during this process are also quite varied. Some experience near ecstasy (seemingly all the former male Claymores) and some feel anguish, horror and death. Females are less susceptible to the effects of youki than males.
Why is it that seemingly all males experience ecstasy during youki usage? There is no doubt about their potence as warriors, but it seems that males are more likely to succumb to the lures of raw power while females are more stable and composed.
Not exactly surprising, really. Even in real life, aggressive conflicts are usually triggered by unreasonable males striving for illusional "power".

Increase of youki towards 80% marks a critical borderline. The body changes according to the amount of youki that begins to flood into every single part of it.
Since youki is a supernatural energy and highly potent, this change happens to accomodate cellular structure so that it won't dissolve/break under it's influence.

The transformation becomes uncontrolable. At this point, the youma side of a Claymore is more present than the human one. While the body changes more and more, youki also begins to influence the mentality of the Claymore. Emotions will reach their peak and willpower will slowly but surely erode.
At this point, a Claymore loses not only her self, but also a sense for what is happening around her. Many become delusional, confused. Some enter a state of denial, which borders on insanity.

At 100% there's another boost of youki which marks the final stage. The complete physical transformation, shortly followed by the mental transformation. The physical aspect can be reversed but not the mental one.

The youma side and the human side are now no longer distinguishable, since we are dealing with a new type of being here. It's completely apart from humanity and ..eh, youmadom.. even though there are still traits from both worlds.
It's outlook on life is that of a superior being apart from morals, codes and alignments. They are predators and rulers. They only answer to strength, and there are not that many beings that could hope to match their horrible power.

Awakened may never return to being a Claymore, a more human hybrid. At least, that's the impression the manga gives us for now.

As Awakened, the former Claymores have a constant youki output around the 100% range. If we take Abyssals into account, then there are beings which go way over 100% output, with a measurement that has yet to be revealed.

Awakened and Abyssals may change into their former human form, which is a clever guise. It's unreal, a fake. They still remain Awakened, their physical makeup remains as such. That means that even in this mode they are still superior to Claymores.

[Defiled one]

^ How about social interaction? Does it fit in this category also?

[SimplyEd]

Since it is part of their mentality and outlook on life..sure. You may want to go into detail when their status as hybrids is concerned.

[Twisted Reality]

So Claymores don't simply mature, they evolve. Like Pokemon. Of course, a few Claymore decide to deliberately suppress their evolution for several levels so that they can get certain moves earlier, just like Pokemon.

[Twisted Reality]

Ah, yes, about the "men are more susceptible to sexual pleasure and gratification thing." Men do possess a stronger and more focused orgasm. Then their sex drive pretty much shuts-down for a little bit. Women, tend to have more nerve branchings and unless I'm mistaken will have multiple diffuse (more spread out around the nervous system) orgasms and none of the simple "burst and crash" that males do.

Hence, I simply think the reasons really largely have to do with the nervous system and the "male brain" and "female brain" type of reasons and how the Yoma cells just happen to take and interact with the body.

*shrugs* Does that kill a catgirl?

Anyway, I think that "Awakened Claymores" can indefinitely retain the hybrid form by willpower, the proportion with the talent to do so are simply rare. And even so, a lot of those were weeded-out on suicide missions, executed or dead/incapacitated by foul play or because of the usual hunts. The Organization doesn't care that they might able to control themselves, just that there's a large risk involved in keeping around "half-Awakened" Claymores. I don't think it's strictly necessary for the author to make the Claymores doomed to go full-Yoma for dramatic effect.

[Defiled one]

I think the whole problem with awakened Claymores is the fact they want to eat

If we could find another food source but I never seen dogs or chickens there either. :heh:

[SimplyEd]

So Claymores don't simply mature, they evolve. Like Pokemon. Of course, a few Claymore decide to deliberately suppress their evolution for several levels so that they can get certain moves earlier, just like Pokemon.

Ah! Good that you made that statement, seeing that i also wanted to comment on this topic later on^^
Preview: Claymores do mature but the end of a hard days work may hold an unpleasant surprise...and then there was silence.

Next time, on this channel: Claymores and Experience. Or "Will you grow-up already!?"

[SimplyEd]

Ah yes, now, as promised, another piece of rant by yours truly...

This time, i shall take a shot at what could be considered Claymores and Experience.
Where did we come from, where are we standing now, where do we go..does this lead anywhere?

はい皆さん！もう一度がんばりましょうよ！クラスはもう直ぐに始まるんだから、気をつけないといけないかも しれませんね。 Errhh, don't mind my japanese there..i admit, i'm much better at understanding than activly using it, orz :heh:

Hmm, let's see. There was a recent statement made by our most honoured board member, Twisted Reality, somewhat concerning the lifestyle of a Claymore.

Claymore are, of course, a product of a merging of human and youma tissue. It would seem that this process is initiated at an early stage of their life. Meaning, they are most likely transformed before they reach maturity.
The reason for this would remain debateable. My take on it being that a younger body (which is already undergoing physical changes during puberty) is more likely to adapt to the stress that such a change would bring about.

After the merging process it would seem that a Claymore retains the ability to grow-up until fully matured. Only after puberty they have developed a body which should provide maximum potential.
Which is not to say that young Claymores couldn't develop a huge battle potential.
A nice example being Priscilla, who barely scratches the border to being a young adult.
Which is to say, that after their body has reached its adult form, they seemingly no longer get older. They stay youthful and in top physical shape. Which obviously is a big plus if you consider what they are up against.

At the same time, this doesn't exactly make it easy for us viewers to accurately discern their true age, let alone their arsenal of experience and wisdom. Both of which are essential to overcome dire threats that probably would mean certain death otherwise.

So, what we have here is a youthful body with a mental age that could easily surpass that of a normal humans lifespan. Given that the Claymore actually survives that long. There aren't exactly a lot of documents concerning the life span of previous generations of Claymores. We are generally reaching the 80's generation mark (eh, i think we're now at 78..though i need to check up on that) and therefore we're looking at many,many decades worth of Claymores lifes.

Having established that, it's not so much their bodies that will mature from that point onward, but rather their mentality.
As, i have pinpointed earlier, a very potent aspect for fending of Awakening.

So yes, Claymores do mature. And here comes the problem. Reason is not something that necessarily comes with age.

The fact that they don't get older physically but mentally also could mean that their minds could develop nasty traits and grudges, which they can harbour and "grow" for an indefinite time.
Displays of inappropriate zeal or downright delusion come to mind. The fact that most of them are inherently loners doesn't do much to console that notion.

Claymores constantly get better at what they do. Their hard work may not necessarily be rewarded that easy however. Sure, they gain experience, grow stronger in terms of cunning and new strategies. They get better at surviving.

New types of offensive capabilites may not be that easily attained. Every Claymore has at least one speciality in which she excells. That may not be enough to cope with every situation however. New conventional fighting techiques may be learned, other come with a different approach to established aspects of a certain attack. Then we have inherited moves and those that were taught to them.

Claymores choose between non-youki based attacks and those that require youki.
The latter ones being more potent in raw power or other supernatural enhancements.

Attacks that require youki may become even more strong when the user gets more adapt at using youki. The phenomenon of Half-Awakening may give a Claymore the ability to use techiques with a comparatively lower youki dose than before. Also, these attacks may be enhanced in terms of a changed physical setup.

Half-Awakening literally makes a Claymore tougher but it also holds the threat of making it easier for the Claymore to change more readily.
Half-Awakened may keep their willpower intact when others others have already stepped over the line.
This is a dangerous gamble, mind you. Most Claymores wouldn't even reach Half-Awakened status, because it's insanly hard the revert back. Most are overwhelmed with the process and just give in.

This is not so much a display of evolving. Claymores do not evolve in an evolutionary kind of sense. They are created artificially and their new forms are being transformed by a supernatural form of energy, should they release too much of it. The transformation is there to accomodate the body, so that it can merge into a more complete hybrid. Awakened is the form of the true hybrid. Not an expression of one of the two extremes.
This an an unnatural alteration.

As you can see, a Claymore that gains experience is also under a constant threat to shoot way beyond her goal and she end up with a "rude awakening".

All the hard work she has invested into her precious abilities will forthwith be used against her fellow comrades. She has become what she hates the most. And strangely enough, at that point, she will no longer even care about it anymore, seeing that her original self is long since gone.

[SimplyEd]

I think the whole problem with awakened Claymores is the fact they want to eat

If we could find another food source but I never seen dogs or chickens there either. :heh:



Very true. Not to mention that most are prone to sadism.

Who knows? Maybe human does taste like chicken to them..if they knew what chicken tastes like.

That would be an interesting subject to tackle in my next rant. Something like A Claymores diet: before and after the change or "Is human flesh good for your health? Not if you're the human!"

On the other hand, i was still preparing for Claymore and Pregnancy or "Honey, it's a hybrid!"

Hmm, let's see what the future holds for both of them.

[Defiled one]

^ I have another doubt.

What if a child, is born blonde. Something that I have never seen in Claymore.:eyebrow:

What would happen if a Claymore saw, a blonde human.

[SimplyEd]

^ I have another doubt.

What if a child, is born blonde. Something that I have never seen in Claymore.:eyebrow:

What would happen if a Claymore saw, a blonde human.

I think there have been Claymores already who had bright hair pigmentation.
"Blonde" is actually rather rare and if i remember correctly even recessive. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Well, on to another sermon of what i'd like to call "A Claymores diet: before and after the change".

Those faint of stomach might find themselves in a predicament ;)


Okay, let's begin with the basics.

As we all know..hopefully, humans are, by nature, omnivores. Which means they can sustain their lives by eating and digesting both plant and animal matter. They may even survive with diets of only vegetation or only meat if they pay attention to deficits which may occur when they don't pay heed to diversity in nutrition.

Youmas are obligate carnivores, and as such, their diet consists solely of human flesh,intestines and the like. In that regard they are highly specialized to one source and type of nutrition. The amount on which they have to feed regularly is comparatively low. They can sustain their lives even when they have to include extended times of fasting.
Another curious aspect is that by devouring human tissue they may assimilate physical data and memories from their victims. Meaning they can use their inate "doppelgänger" ability to take up the forms and behaviour of their victims.
A horrible masquerade indeed.

A Claymore seemingly retains traits of an omnivore. Usually they only feed on very little amounts of nourishment and very sporadically.
Even then they are rather picky about their sources of nourishment.
In a way, it would seem that their merging with youma tissue and the existance of youki in their bodies triggered this effect.
Now, while they are hybrids, as Claymores they gear more towards their human side. As such, it would seem that they are not reliant on human flesh or flesh in general to sustain their lives.

This circumstance only becomes apparant when they initiate the process of awakening. When their bodies gear more towards their youma side and their phsyical setup changes to their youki output.

The complete transformation, the aspect of a complete hybrid also showcases a sole desire for human flesh. It would seem that only their transformed tissue relies on this source of nourishment. Their new physical shape transformed by youki influence.

What is this special property of human tissue that makes it so desireable for youma and Awakened?
All three species are in essence humanoid (anthropomorph in case of a "natural" species "youma"). There's no evidence that youma were humans at one point or that they are an offshot of a mutual ancestor species. They do see themselves as natural predators to humans however.
There is no sort of proof for the three species to be able to intermingle naturally.
The close genetic setup of all three species seems to make human flesh most desireable, as it may be more easily included and readily processed within the others metabolism.There may be other sublime reasons, maybe even supernatural in nature of which we haven't heard yet.

Youmas and Awakened display disgust when they even think about tasting Claymore flesh. Apparently they are unable to digest and process youki-influenced matter. In other words, they don't feed among themselves as cannibales.

Eventually, this also means that Youma and Awakened are ultimately food-competitors. A clash between those two is rather inevitable when food sources grow thin.
As predators, both of them are extremely reliant on their food source. Meaning that if it were to dwindle, then the repercussions for both of them will be much more intense.

Lastly, for now that is, i have absolutely no idea wether human flesh tastes like chicken..and thankfully so!

[Anh_Minh]

Youmas are obligate carnivores, and as such, their diet consists solely of human flesh,intestines and the like.
We don't know if that's true. They can pass as humans for long periods of time, even within human families, so they have to be able to eat like humans. They may even get some kind of sustenance from it. They just still need intestines once in a while.


A Claymore seemingly retains traits of an omnivore. Usually they only feed on very little amounts of nourishment and very sporadically.
Even then they are rather picky about their sources of nourishment.
What do you mean? I've never heard of a Claymore who was a picky eater.

Lastly, for now that is, i have absolutely no idea wether human flesh tastes like chicken..and thankfully so!



It tastes like pork.

Or, hm, so I've heard. *cough* <_< >_>

[Defiled one]

^ Human flesh, from the records of people who ate people. Tastes like, sweet,

I don´t know if this is true or not, but they say human flesh tastes very sweet and there is no comparison whatsoever with any flesh eaten before. :eyebrow: trust me I know.

There was one time, when a russian woman killed his boyfriend and cooked him for years eve and then, she like, invited all the neighbors to eat there and they ate. And they only realized they ate human flesh when one of the already drunk russiana went to fridge and saw the guys head. And everybody was like OMG and then the police came....5 years in Siberia. :cool: I think.


Now something that I can brag about is eating Intestines. Yes, I eat intestines of the pig. Quite tasty if you fry them before stuffing some sauce inside. Grandma however, eats them raw. :uhoh: I never liked the raw taste, however raw liver is something that waters my mouth.
I mean the pig, it´s from a pig.

So yeah, it tastes good. :rolleyes:

[SimplyEd]

I'm somewhat restless today, seeing that i've got a pesky exam due tomorrow..and what better way is there to relax than writing up a disclosure on Claymores and Pregnancy ?

Hmm, i think this ones going to be updated a few times in the future, seeing that the topic remains highly speculative. Anyway, let's give birth to a new box full of surprises ;)


Okay, for some reason this kind of topic always pops up when you least expect it.
To tell the truth, i'm feeling a little itchy right now. I'll still tackle the subject relentlessly!^^

As i have deducted earlier, a Claymore does mature. So physically speaking, they reach their adult form just fine. And, without exaggeration, most of them look yummy enough to make the average anime/manga enthusiast want to explore this very topic quite...vehemently. Which then leads to questions that need to be answered.

Now, let's get sidetracked for a bit. We should, by now, all know what a Claymore is supposed to be. They are, on the most basic notion, warriors created to fend of an ancient enemy of mankind. There is virtually no need for them to reproduce since they can be created from stock human specimens, taken against their own wishes. This is, of course, solely speaking from the Orgs point of view, mind you.

As warriors, their main focus should rest on what they are trained for: the art of war. There would no longer be a reason for them to remain fertile.
And indeed, there's not a single bit of evidence regarding their fecundity.
Wether the act of Claymoreization brought about that circumstance or another "medical" intervention on part of the Org remains a mystery.

Claymores retain their emotions. Meaning that they are capable to feel basic desires and turn-offs. If these still contain a sexual drive, it hasn't been shown much at all. Though it would seem that they have a thorough knowledge about the range of a normal humans behaviour, as illustrated when they are sent on undercover ops, to blend in with the populace. Or when they interact with one another and other humans.

To my knowledge, there's also no evidence for a menstrual cycle so far. And let's face it, that's the worst case scenario for any female warrior. Another reason why it would have been altered by the Org. Not to speak of pregnancy itself..
So, i think it would be wise to put your money on the thought that their reproductive organs were pretty much ..disabled. They seemingly still posses their primary genitalia.

That's of course not to say that they couldn't have sex and enjoy it. Still, there's the matter wether they still have the urge.

More profundly, there's absolutely no telling how youmas reproduce. For all we can tell they could grow on trees or simply pop out of the earth :D
Thankfully there are no primary genitalia visible on them..or are there. I admit, i don't specifically look out for them on monsters ;)

Having established that, there's also no hard evidence that youma would (even be capable to) rape humans. There are some folks who seem to derive pleasure to come up with shady proof..but don't let yourself be fooled! :p

Awakened/Abyssals are a tough nut to crack. In essence, i think the affore established "rules" would also apply to them. As always, we lack in reference material.

For now, i'd conclude this little excerpt with the following summary:

No, they probably won't be able to reproduce and their sexual urges remain a big ?

[Defiled one]

^How about, we don`t know :heh: FOR NOW.......:rolleyes:

[SimplyEd]

We don't know if that's true. They can pass as humans for long periods of time, even within human families, so they have to be able to eat like humans. They may even get some kind of sustenance from it. They just still need intestines once in a while.

Which is, of course, also speculation. Still, if you take all the other evidence into account then i would rather stick with them being sole carnivores.
After all, they'd only fake it when they ate something else. Them getting sustenance from it being even more vague.
And yes, they are very enthusiastic about chewing on the next persons guts^^
Still ,your points of view are always welcome! ;)



What do you mean? I've never heard of a Claymore who was a picky eater.

Well, we have seen Clare wanting to refuse eating flesh when she was traveling with Raki back then. I'm under the impression that she's not at all fond of that kind of nourishment. She only complies because she felt bad for Raki then.
All in all, the don't feel the urge to eat an awful lot (more like almost nothing). So yes, i would assume that when they do eat and they can choose theyd be picky.



It tastes like pork.

Or, hm, so I've heard. *cough* <_< >_>

:uhoh:



@Defiled one


Hehe^^ You should ask for a culinary thread!

[Anh_Minh]

While we don't know anything about their sexuality, Awakened Ones do feel a desire for companionship. Or Riful would never put up with Duph...

Which is, of course, also speculation. Still, if you take all the other evidence into account then i would rather stick with them being sole carnivores.
After all, they'd only fake it when they ate something else. Them getting sustenance from it being even more vague.
Well, it's like the way you can sustain yourself from a purely vegan diet for a while, but you still need animal protein. Except their needs are more urgent. And at the very least, they don't throw up normal human food.

Well, we have seen Clare wanting to refuse eating flesh when she was traveling with Raki back then. I'm under the impression that she's not at all fond of that kind of nourishment. She only complies because she felt bad for Raki then.
All in all, the don't feel the urge to eat an awful lot (more like almost nothing). So yes, i would assume that when they do eat and they can choose theyd be picky.

I don't remember that. Are you sure she wasn't just full? Having a small appetite isn't the same as being a picky eater.

[Negativedark]

I gotta bring something else into play here...
Namely the fact that awakened ones have two forms, and some are very very odd. Namely Riful. Her awakened form is in effect a mass of ribbon shaped tentacles. considering how she is able to split apart she may not even have organs in a way that evern remotly resemble those of a humans. So what does this have to do with reproduction? Even if Riful were able to conceive, if she had to unravel, there is the posibility of the fetus falling out and landing on the ground.
Shame really, I would have laughed if someone asked Riful where Dauf was and she responded "He's with the kids"

[SimplyEd]

I gotta bring something else into play here...
Namely the fact that awakened ones have two forms, and some are very very odd. Namely Riful. Her awakened form is in effect a mass of ribbon shaped tentacles. considering how she is able to split apart she may not even have organs in a way that evern remotly resemble those of a humans. So what does this have to do with reproduction? Even if Riful were able to conceive, if she had to unravel, there is the posibility of the fetus falling out and landing on the ground.
Shame really, I would have laughed if someone asked Riful where Dauf was and she responded "He's with the kids"



LOL Negativedark, you crack me up :D


@Anh_Minh

About Clares behaviour: Yeah, that was my impression. I thought she would have rather not eaten it at all, because she's not that fond of meat.

[Defiled one]

^Starfish, ever heard of it? They reproduce in a very weird manner.

[Anh_Minh]

Negativedark: She implanted her baby factory into Duph. She's an active woman, and not about to let pregnancy slow her down!

[SimplyEd]

^Starfish, ever heard of it? They reproduce in a very weird manner.


As do porcupines...very carefully^^

[Defiled one]

No one ever takes me seriously :sad:

But I shall have my vengeance! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish#Reproduction)

[Negativedark]

LOL Negativedark, you crack me up :D


@Anh_Minh

About Clares behaviour: Yeah, that was my impression. I thought she would have rather not eaten it at all, because she's not that fond of meat.

I always thought since Raki mentions that they haven't eaten since Breakfast, Clare had already eaten that day, and wasn't hungery.

[SimplyEd]

Well, it's not just that. I'm also trying to put myself into their shoes. Like, if i end up as a Claymore and i'm trying my best to keep my flesh-craving youma side in check i'd probably forego on animal proteins and the like, as best as i can.
I'm not saying that all results i come up with are necessarily correct, but at that time i do think they can be complied with at a logical level. That is not to say that other versions are less correct.
In essence, yes, i do think it would be common for a Claymore, who most likely witnessed her parents/friends being eaten by youma, to pass up on meat and rather stick to vegetables and fruit. This is no ironclad rule. It just makes an awful lot of sense to me.

Well, about the next topic i wanted to address..i'm torn on various issues.

I always wanted to do something on the Abyssals or the various Awakened forms. Seeing that there's already quite a bit info on the process of Awakening itself it would probably be good to take a closer look on the finished product^^

[Anh_Minh]

In other words, you're projecting rather than analysing.

I'll do some projecting of my own: if I was a Claymore, I wouldn't get to eat often, so I'd make sure than when I do, meat is involved. Because I like meat.

And notice, in the Slashers II, Helen seems to be eating some animal's legs.

[SimplyEd]

Or to put it off more bluntly: i'm speculating. Projecting would be: All Claymores only eat vegetables because i said so.
In actuality they still remain omnivores, so there. Still, for me, their curious eating habits made me think along the line. Nothing wrong with that.
You're also thinking along, so there.

I don't even want to know the theoretical death-toll of Catgirls on this thread.

[Anh_Minh]

No.
Speculating: "maybe Claymores are vegetarian."
Projecting: "Claymores are vegetarian because if I were them, I would be."


And when I'm speculating, I try to clearly say so and why I think what I do.

[FatPianoBoy]

I fail to see why projecting is bad while speculation isn't. Chill, guys.

And I tend to agree with Ed on the vegan thing for all the reasons he stated. Plus, wasn't Deneve gorging herself on a giant apple-ish looking thing?

[SimplyEd]

And when I'm speculating, I try to clearly say so and why I think what I do.

Well, that's exactly why i just explained why i said that.
This is a discussion thread. If somethings not clear, you usually ask about it or offer a different point of view. Which you did. Thank you very much.

Everybody else should now be aware of our respectively spectulated projections. :p


Chill, guys.

Thanks, as of now i'm as ice^^ *shiver*

[Anh_Minh]

FatPianoBoy: It's not. As with speculation, it's only bad when you don't realize you're doing it.

However, I'd argue that:
- it's easier to make that mistake with projection than with other forms of speculation
- "speculation" covers a wide range, going from "out of nowhere" to "educated guess" to "almost certain". Projection tends to be on the low end of that spectrum, because it rests mainly on the subject being like the thinker, which often has little reason to be true.

Also, in the anime, Helen was eating a giant fruit. In the manga, it looked like animal legs.

[SimplyEd]

Does it even matter in the end? Wether i'm speculating or projecting, in the end i'm holding up my opinion against possible other..or accordingly with others.

Claymores eat very very sporadically, extremly low amounts and its not like they're actually shorthanded on aquiring good stuff to eat. Plus, there's their background and possible outlook on life.
So yes, they can be rather picky about their foodsources.
Or maybe not, because of what you said.
It's anybodies guess, sheesh.

What is there more to say? Would you like to write my future posts for me?
People are free to choose what is a good conclusion and what is not. Maybe i do choose a rather bad wording sometimes, forgive me.
That's where you're free to discuss. Which we did. Period.


Sorry, FatPianoBoy, looks like the ice just melted away somewhat...

[NoSanninWa]

Those who do not read the manga should be informed that the writings of SimplyEd are 95% his own invention. Almost everything he writes is entirely out of his own head and isn't in the manga. That makes them wildly speculative, but not blatantly false. Of course any volume now we might be informed of facts that could contradict every single word written.

These writings are speculation, not projection. Though I will admit that the line is rather thin. The difference is that SimplyEd writes within the bounds of the manga. Like a good fanfic he tries to stay in the manga's character.

[SimplyEd]

Okay, on to another topic, which i'd like to call "Superior beings or cookie cutters?". Please join me on a voyage to boldly go where several Claymores have been before ;)


Ahemm, well then, as promised, i'd like to tackle a few aspects about the ever so popular Awakened and their more potent superiors, the Abyssals.

Should you read these lines you're probably aware of my previous speculations! about the process of Awakening. Since i do not want to bore my dear readers to death (not any more than usual that is), i'll graciously refrain from repeating those thoughts again.

So, i'm starting right of the bat with Ms. Newly Awakened, a fictional example for a fictional discourse. Let's call her Gimei..for no apparent reason..or maybe?

Gimei, as an Awakened and therefore a "complete hybrid", shares one peculiarity with all the other Awakened or Abyssals, especially. Namely her unique physical appearance and a set of individual special abilities, which may not be inherited from her Claymore days. well, should the resulting Awakened form be humanoid, they may still be able to execute them when handling a sword. Her youki abilities may be carried over.

The appearance of Gimei can vary as much as there are known and widely different types of organic, animalistic expressions. Which means that a newly born Awakened seemingly always resembles some sort of animal (a horrid mockery of one), including mammals, reptilians, insectoids etc. OR organic, pseudo-plant like? (i have no idea what to make of Riful..but well, plants are of organic matter but drop me a note if you know what she should be). -) Seems like Negativedark came up with a much better theory concerning Riful. Very much appreciated!

These forms are certainly not those of a regular youma, upon which we can assume that this final transformation is not an expression of the youma-side of the hybrid taking over.
The prevalent youma-expression of the hybrids body may only occur when a Claymore uses more than 50% of her youki onward till 100%.

So, how does this final transformation trigger an animalistic form for Awakened?
Now it gets interesting (and increasingly shady because there is no sort of hard evidence for that in the manga).

I came up with the idea that youki, as a supernatural type of energy, which changes human tissue accordingly to its release, also activated their DNAs introns, which are basically dormant genetic codes held over from earlier evolutionary stages. Coupled with that, we have the inate mental setup of a Claymore which defines her character. Traits that are symbolic for her.
So, cold-blooded (as in without remorse) treacherous and sly characters may end up with a reptilian disposition.

Even though Gimei now has this type of physical appearance, her actual behaviour does not necessarily match it that much. As a new species, her behaviour is that of an intelligent, superior being with a disturbing tendency towards sadism. It is save to think of her as above human morality and other social codes of conduct. Should she display such behaviour, it will most likely be out of mockery and imposing humiliation onto her victim.

Of course, Gimei now has the already mentioned ability to mimic her normal human form, just like Abyssals have. On that note, i would like to think that Abyssals spend a whole lot more time in their human form because their bodies leak a greater amount of youki..much larger than that of normal Awakened. As such, a normal Awakened may actually spend a much longer time in their fully transformed form than Abyssals can.

As we all know, Awakened and Abyssals especially, are the de facto strongest beings around (together with highly ranked/skilled Claymores).
As such, they are the ultimate expression of an adversary..for now. They are seemingly overpowered, yet, they can be and have been killed nonetheless.

As it stands, there already is something more terrible than an Awakened, it's just not established in how far that would be true ;)

I'll keep this box updated since i still have some thoughts on the matter. We'll just have to wait till later

[Negativedark]

Funny you should decide to adress that topic nowBecause I'm going to do a series looking into the physoloies of individual awakened. This will include Riful, Isley, Lucelea, Dauf, Rigard, Priscilla andPartially awakened Claire Possibly Ophilia. I'll be adressing Riful a little later today.

[SimplyEd]

Sounds wonderful, Negativedark!

I'm looking forward to it, since that should save me a mountain of work^^

Don't worry, i wasn't very specific on certain Awakened. ;)

[Negativedark]

Well I'm back and about to begin the first of my series of abovementioned articles. For those of you just following the anime or viz releases, I'd advise not reading this unless you want to be spoilied.First I'd like to mention, I forgot one idividual I'll be covering in my series on the pysiques of awakened beings, Alicia. That said, on with the show.
Riful of The West.
In my opinion, of all the awakened biengs Riful has the body that is the most removed from a human biengs. Simply Ed compared her to a plant, but I would liken her more to a coloney of flatworms. Not exactly a pretty comparison. But as has been shown, Riful does split apart into many, many ribbon like tentacles. The fact that her entire body is able to do so you requre that she have, the following.
No skeletal structure. Being made out of all thoes flexable strips, I just cannot see her having bones.
A radicly different nervous system. As we have seen blows to where the brain would be in a human don't even bother Riful. She can split her head apart at will, and it has no effect on her.
Circulitory, digestive systems, and pretty much every organ in her body. They all must be radicly different.
Her eyes are also able to split, and presumibly still operate well.
One thing I cannot establish is if all the ribbons are able to fully seperate, or if their remains a point or points where they are connected.
So what does all this mean from a pratical point of view? Riful has a magnifecent deffensive adaption. First off, her body is extreamly resistent to attacks. A weaker attack will simply bounce off of her without doing a single thing. A stronger attack could simply end up following the path of least resistance. In short cutting her along where she is already split, and thus doing nothing. So far Riful seems to split verticly, and horizonatl strikes may be more effective.
So what about offense? Well all those ribbons are stronger than steel, and razor sharp. Riful has a lot of them. She can send a massive number at her target, or targets, to shred, impale or simply bind them. Whats more the main body, or at least what appears to be the main body, is supported on top of those ribbons, several stories in the air. For a melee attacking Claymore, getting close would reqire using the suppourting ribbons as a foothold. And thusly giving Riful compleate controll of the terrain your standing on.
Dispite these traits, Riful is not immune to damage. As a theorized, cutting her horizontally could be more effective. And as are thrusting attacks, or the drill sword techneque, witch has been shown to destroy her ribbons. Attacks that peirce such ass Ilsey's preffered weapons, and anything really exotic may also prove effective. It is unclear if attacking the strands that make up Riful's head and torso would damge her vitals.
One added factor must be considered. Even in her human appearing form, Ruful may still be made of layers of ribbon like tentacles. A clean strike to the skull of Riful in her human form, had an effect no different from one to her awakened form. It is however possible she had seen the attack coming, and prepared.
In short, Riful has a body structure, that by itself would make her fomidable. Combine it with the strengh, speed and hardness, of her tentacles, and you have a body with almost perfect defensive and offensive capabilies. Combine it with her intellegence, and you have one of the most formidable threats in the Claymore world.

[SimplyEd]

Congratulations and good luck for the remaining ones!

And now....

Flatworms! What an interesting idea! Wouldn't have thought about that, very intriguing.
Takes a lot of stress out of my own "pseudo-plant" speculation^^

[Negativedark]

Oh and by the way I've been wondering something.
Is it possible for a Claymore to lactate? Miata likes to suck on Claris's breasts, but I doubt she's getting anything. However is it possible for a Claymore to lactate? They wouldn't be getting the hormones that induce lactation, at least not from pregnancy, but with our little breast sucking berserker, I've just been wondering.

[SimplyEd]

Oh and by the way I've been wondering something.
Is it possible for a Claymore to lactate? Miata likes to suck on Claris's breasts, but I doubt she's getting anything. However is it possible for a Claymore to lactate? They wouldn't be getting the hormones that induce lactation, at least not from pregnancy, but with our little breast sucking berserker, I've just been wondering.


Hmm, if i'm informed correctly then sterilization doesn't necessarily have an effect on lactation. And it can be induced even when the women in question is not pregnant.

Generally speaking, yeah, it may be possible. Miata seems to enjoy herself^^

[Tempest35]

...I'll leave the Miata thing alone... :heh:

And be warned, those who have not read the manga will be spoiled very much so.

Anyway, on to Awakened/Abyssal forms...it's very VERY hard to pinpoint a pattern of what sort of form one would take when Awakened. Heck, Lucretica's appearance REALLY threw me off, especially when they showed the two tails...

Not to mention Jean's...Most powerful technique and what does she almost become? A butterfly!?

The only one I can really see as being 'hmm, I can see that' is Priscilla's demi-fiend appearance - a demon - wings and all. I wouldn't say that her appearance was beautiful but it wasn't exactly hideous either - it was still very much humanoid.

Which leads me to another train of thought that might be best illustrated by a small list:


Priscilla - humanoid demonic angel form
Isley - evil centaur/knight
Riful - tentacle/ribbon/flatworm-chan
Lucretia - double jawed and tailed large cat
Jean - Mortha (kidding)
Clare - 'Queen of Blades'
Alice - 'Queen of Blades' Ver 2
Ligado - 'Lion King' Mufasa's no joke.
Ophelia - I swear I saw this form on 'Hercules: the TV series'...humanoid appearance at the front - body of a snake waist down.


I can't tell if there is something truly special about these Awakened forms and what they say about the true personality of the being or is the manga-ka just being really creative here.

[SimplyEd]

...I'll leave the Miata thing alone... :heh:

And be warned, those who have not read the manga will be spoiled very much so.

Anyway, on to Awakened/Abyssal forms...it's very VERY hard to pinpoint a pattern of what sort of form one would take when Awakened. Heck, Lucretica's appearance REALLY threw me off, especially when they showed the two tails...

Not to mention Jean's...Most powerful technique and what does she almost become? A butterfly!?

The only one I can really see as being 'hmm, I can see that' is Priscilla's demi-fiend appearance - a demon - wings and all. I wouldn't say that her appearance was beautiful but it wasn't exactly hideous either - it was still very much humanoid.

Which leads me to another train of thought that might be best illustrated by a small list:


Priscilla - humanoid demonic angel form
Isley - evil centaur/knight
Riful - tentacle/ribbon/flatworm-chan
Lucretia - double jawed and tailed large cat
Jean - Mortha (kidding)
Clare - 'Queen of Blades'
Alice - 'Queen of Blades' Ver 2
Ligado - 'Lion King' Mufasa's no joke.
Ophelia - I swear I saw this form on 'Hercules: the TV series'...humanoid appearance at the front - body of a snake waist down.


I can't tell if there is something truly special about these Awakened forms and what they say about the true personality of the being or is the manga-ka just being really creative here.




I thought that Butterfly Jean was quite lovely..just like herself^^

About some of the others: Yeah, Lucieras was quite..unpleasant for a feline form

Clare: Hmm, call me crazy but i think there's something birdlike about her..the legs (minus the hooves lol); her left arm became a wing of blades; her other arm awakended differently because it's Irenes;

Alicia: Hmm, when you look at her from behind there's something buglike about her..

Ophelia: Essentially a snake, but the right expression would rather be Lamia.

I'm sure that Negativedark wants to go into detail on every one of them

[Negativedark]

I will touch on a few.
Alicia. Queen Alien. Look at the shape of of the head. Also seems the least impresive of the Abysal level in my opinion.
Lucela- Catgirl from hell. Hey god did kill a catgirl! Via Raphelea.
Isley-Badass. For some reason I want to see that as a Castlevania boss.
Ophelia-Yep. She's a Lamia.
Priscilla-Fallen Angel. Fits the look and her charecter.
Claire- Odly enough the shape of the legs and the Wierd wing reminds me of a picture I once saw of the Jersey Devil. As for Ilena's arm, I think that an awakened Ilena would still be relitvly close to human, but have a LOT of these chainblades.

Now to continue my indivdual profiles.Since I did Riful last time, now seems like a good time to adress her lover Dauf. Now he is clearly not the smartest awakened, I don't think he's a complete idiot. He did come up with a way to disrupt the Youki sensing of a Claymore entering the Witches Maw. And he realizes that crushed bones take longer to heal than cutting off a limb would have. I think that Dauf's real problem is that he can't adapt too quickly to surprises or new situations.
Still overall Dauf is Brawn before Brains. But what Brawn! His form is massive, and in all honesty even in his human form he looks like a shaved ape. I figure he must have been the brute force warrior of his generation. As an awakened he's extreamly large, but his full height is difficult to gauge because he seems to always be crouching down, even when outdoors. Adding to the ape comparison. Due to his great strength Stone walls are no obsticale to him, and he can crush lesser Awakened, even if they are as big as him, like bugs. He's a powerhouse, so getting hit by him is a very bad idea, unless your increadibly durable.
And so for that matter is Dauf. He's got to be an offensive type. Or he is the worst Defensive type ever. But just doing damage to him is a challenge. Even with the quicksword, Claire only scratched up his face. He wasn't bleeding, and his eyes were unhurt. Galetea was able to cut off a hand and cut his cheek, but she had to release a lot of Youki to do so. Jean was the one to do the worst damage, maiming one hand, and punching a hole through his throat. And the fact that while it did take the fight out out of him, he survived and recovered fully. Any normal creature would have been dead several times over, from the destruction of the windpipe, Spinal coloum, and all the major ateries. So there seems to be some redundency to his biological systems. Perhaps his pysical resiliance explains Rifuls remark abuot him bieng "The only one who can accept me without breaking". If Riful forgets to restrian herself with, say a hug, most beings would be crushed.
Dauf, as so many awakened do, posseses a special power. His rods. These arn't just solid objects he makes either. As Claire notes, they have their own Yoma aura, and a pulse. So they have their own circulatory systems, and some reserves of nutreints, so they will live for a while. In some ways they seem almost to resemble tumors. Several seem to be sticking out of various parts of Dauf's body, but it is unclear if they all are manufactured their, or on the spot where they are launched. And Dauf has a lot of spots to launch them from. The mouth, the wrist, the finger, and even the stump of his severed hand. Dauf seems to be able to luanch them from anywhere. Considirng he has shot one through the head of another awakened, that's a deadly power indeed.
In short Dauf is a Gaint of increadible brute strength, but with some serous mental weaknesses. Fourtunatly he has an almost sybiotic releationship with Riful, who is more than smart enougth to cover for him, though I do wonder what she gets out of it.
On a slightly silly note I also find it cute when Riful sits on the shoulder of Dauf in her human form.

[Twisted Reality]

Does it even matter in the end? Wether i'm speculating or projecting, in the end i'm holding up my opinion against possible other..or accordingly with others.

Claymores eat very very sporadically, extremly low amounts and its not like they're actually shorthanded on aquiring good stuff to eat. Plus, there's their background and possible outlook on life.
So yes, they can be rather picky about their foodsources.
Or maybe not, because of what you said.
It's anybodies guess, sheesh.

What is there more to say? Would you like to write my future posts for me?
People are free to choose what is a good conclusion and what is not. Maybe i do choose a rather bad wording sometimes, forgive me.
That's where you're free to discuss. Which we did. Period.


Sorry, FatPianoBoy, looks like the ice just melted away somewhat...

Don't take it so personally. He was pointing out a potential flaw (logical fallacy) in your argument, not insulting you. If he wants to express an opinion on your opinion, let him. Of course, none of these opinions really matter, but he's here for the same reason you are: to discuss and think about your hobby. You really have nothing to lose and everything to gain because of his input.

FatPianoBoy: It isn't bad per se. But I see no reason why to get worked up over somebody pointing out how projecting can be erroneous. We like to argue and both speculate about nothing, but that doesn't change the fact that there can be a debate via reason.

Personally, I think it's simply irrational to shun meat as a Claymore simply because your parents were simply eaten by Yoma. Cows and chickens, for example, don't really have anything to do with my dead brother/uncle/parents or whatever. I don't have a particular attachment to those animals I eat and eating them may actually be better for the humans who sold it to me in the first place. Shunning meat simply because of having loved ones killed by a predator doesn't change the past, and dwelling on it this way is a dysfunctional way of dealing with emotional trauma.

And indeed, later in the series, we are actually shown that Claymores can derive benefits from eating food. But this is not an assertion I care to back up for spoilerific reasons.

[flick]

Interesting thread development :)

Claymores can obviously survive a long time without food (benefit of being part Yoma and all?) and maybe some do choose to be vegan (since it's easier to find wild berries/fruit?) but I'm not sure if they would be put off by flesh - perhaps by the gut/innards - but since Yoma technically don't eat the muscle part (AFAIK... maybe I've misinterpreted somewhere) I'd suggest that most Claymores would still eat meat.

Perhaps it's really down to what's available when they feel a pang of hunger?

[SimplyEd]

Don't take it so personally. He was pointing out a potential flaw (logical fallacy) in your argument, not insulting you.

Who says that i was taking anything personaly? I didn't see any insults towards myself in his retorts, thank you very much. What i said was directed towards him being obnoxious about this whole speculation/projection thing while everything i'm writing about is speculation from the very beginning.
I always appreciate any type of opinion and discussion, if it's anything related to the topic.


If he wants to express an opinion on your opinion, let him. Of course, none of these opinions really matter, but he's here for the same reason you are: to discuss and think about your hobby. You really have nothing to lose and everything to gain because of his input.


Woah, i will not have it said that i'd deny anyone of their respective opinion!
And that was certainly never the problem here.
The problem was as follows: I think that certain Claymores would be/can be picky eaters, as demonstrated by my explanations above.
Anh_Minh thinks that may not be the case.
So? That's absolutely fine. I have no qualms with him thinking differently.

Yes, discussions are there for exactly such circumstances. And we did discuss, but sometimes it's got to actually come to an end with discussing something that will surely lead nowhere at all.
People are free to either pick his or my opinion OR make up their own ones.
Why would i post all that stuff if it wasn't up for discussion?
So, i really do hope that this puts a hold on all that redundant stuff which has no real baring on the topic.
I love discussing opinions and that's that.

It isn't bad per se. But I see no reason why to get worked up over somebody pointing out how projecting can be erroneous. We like to argue and both speculate about nothing, but that doesn't change the fact that there can be a debate via reason.

Yeah, that's exactly part of the problem. Displaying opinions is just fine but it usually gets out of hand when people are painstakingly debating motivations. And when these motivations have been laid bare and there's still no end in sight, well, then something has gone wrong.
I have no qualms with defending my position, that's all. If the other party comes up with a good enough reasoning i might even be convinced to change my opinion.
No big deal.

Personally, I think it's simply irrational to shun meat as a Claymore simply because your parents were simply eaten by Yoma. Cows and chickens, for example, don't really have anything to do with my dead brother/uncle/parents or whatever. I don't have a particular attachment to those animals I eat and eating them may actually be better for the humans who sold it to me in the first place. Shunning meat simply because of having loved ones killed by a predator doesn't change the past, and dwelling on it this way is a dysfunctional way of dealing with emotional trauma.

No talking about shun or going vegan. I said picky. There's a difference. All my reasoning has been explained already.
Your opinion is very much appreciated.

And indeed, later in the series, we are actually shown that Claymores can derive benefits from eating food. But this is not an assertion I care to back up for spoilerific reasons.

I do not doubt. They remain omnivores and as such still eat every now and then.
No talk about them not being able to derive benefits from eating. They still need it to survive primarily.

[Anh_Minh]

The problem was as follows: I think that certain Claymores would be/can be picky eaters, as demonstrated by my explanations above.
Anh_Minh thinks that may not be the case.

Actually, I think certain Claymores can be picky eaters too. For the exact same reasons some human beings are picky eaters. (As for what those reasons are... who knows? Not me, and I'm a bit picky about food myself.)

The way you phrased it, though, made it look like most or all Claymores should be picky eaters, because of their special circumstance of being Claymores.

[SimplyEd]

Interesting thread development :)

Claymores can obviously survive a long time without food (benefit of being part Yoma and all?) and maybe some do choose to be vegan (since it's easier to find wild berries/fruit?) but I'm not sure if they would be put off by flesh - perhaps by the gut/innards - but since Yoma technically don't eat the muscle part (AFAIK... maybe I've misinterpreted somewhere) I'd suggest that most Claymores would still eat meat.

Perhaps it's really down to what's available when they feel a pang of hunger?



Yeah, we can be somewhat certain that Youmas would aim mainly for the inards and the brain of their victim. Apart from that, i'm fairly certain they'd also eat parts of their victims flesh.
Lions for example, also primarily aim for the inards once they've brought down their prey and then they go for the meat.
Claymores may still eat meat, yes.

About the availability: Hmm, since they already eat very very little and quite sporadicaly, it's hard imagining them in such a predicament. But that's just me.


The way you phrased it, though, made it look like most or all Claymores should be picky eaters, because of their special circumstance of being Claymores.

Agreed. My choice of wording could have been much better^^

[Negativedark]

No may about it. Helen had a drumstick, and was chomping down on it in the slashers. Unless Tofurky was invented, she was eating meat. I't wouldn't be entirly surprising if some Claymores do adopt a vegetarian diet, as a reaction to the fear of someday turning into a maneater. But it seems that most are comfortable eating meat.
Now for something compleatly different.Well since I reread his apperences last night, I figure I'll do Rigald, AKA Ligardes, Rigardo, Etc.
First lets cover a few things about him as a Claymore. We know from a comment of Dauf's that when they were Claymore's Rigald, Isley, and Dauf were all rivals. We also know he was a offensive type. Finally his human form was rather slender. My theory is that Rigald was the speed warrior of his generation. It certainly fits his prowess as an awakened.
As an awakened Rigard had one of the most unusual forms compared to the others. Whereas most awakened tend to look very grotesque, almost Giegeresqe, Rigald was an almost quaintly old fashioned Lion Man. He also wasn't that big. But that didn't matter too much with him.
For such a powerful awakened, Rigald's abilities are somewhat unflashy. I'd describe him as someone who's special powers are high base stats. Look at his favorate attack. His claws, witch act just like the fingers of a Yoma. However as they were like sharp blades, they were far more deadly, able to cut as well as pierce.
However the triat that made him so very deadly was his speed. Such speed that it was all Miria could do to stay alive using her mirage. Speed enough so that Veronica and Flora couldn't even mount a defense before being slaughterd. Jean and Undine did slightly better, but in the end still stood no chance. He didn't even have try and kill most of the warriors who were below them. They just wern't worth it to him. Initally in that battle he was untouchable. Only thespeed of an partially awakened Clairecould stop him. It seems the Snark was in fact a Boojam.
So in short Rigald had a specialty. Speed. With his speed he was almost untouchable. Combined with his claws, he was able to cut down his foes with ease. Indeed I consider him to have done the most damage to the castmembers of any awakened yet seen. Priscilla killed Teresa, and Isley was behind the northen campain, but Rigald did a huge amount of damage personally. The Battle of Pieta was unwinable for the Claymores, but he greatly reduced the odds for survivors. If not for him I woud'nt have been surprided if Jean, Flora, Undine, and maybe Veronica had survived thanks to Mira's plan. If the commanders had lived longer, then they may have been able to help their troops more enabling more survivors. Any chance of that was Snuffed by Rigald.

Well any requests for the next one? Isley, Lucela, Alicia still are up. Claire however will be the last one I do.

[SimplyEd]

Luciera please. I'm a big fan of her and Raphaela^^

[Tempest35]

Well, if one doesn't mind, I have one thing to add for Rigald.
He also had a keen mind and good sense in battle as well. Quickly assessing that with the current setup, the Claymores were well on their way to drop the Awakened number down below half of the original troop number before they died. You'd expect that from Isley's little comment on him being the worst one when blood-drunk out of anyone he knew, that he'd end up being more like Kenpachi (BLEACH) rather than someone who kept their cool even in the heat of battle.


As for who's vegan and who's not - Why in the world would Helen be a vegan? Deneve, I can see being one, given the circumstances that led her to the Org and subsquently to being a Claymore, but not Helen. Not in the slightest. :heh:

[Negativedark]

Well I guess it's time for my next article. But their is something NoSanninWa brought to my attention about my last article.Okay I feel a little silly due to some things involving some pm's. Anyways if it was unclear, Claire was the Snark that turned out to be a Boojam. In other words, easy prey, that was infact lethal.
Okay Now that that's out of the way.
As per request it's time to cover Lucirea, aka a Luciula, the catgirl from hell. Also IMO the Abyssal with the best fasion sense.
We know that as a Claymore Lucerea was considered the equal off her sister Raphelea, and got the number 1 rank because she was older and would be the one awakening for the attempt to create a tame Abyssal. And that failed misserably. Other than that not much else is known.
Judging from the devistation she wrought on the organization after awakening, and the effects of her fight with Isley on the surroundings, Lucerea was capable of some severly devistating manuvers and attacks. Sadly we really didn't get to see too many of these. What we do know is that she had a feline like form, with two to three(The number seems to vary) thick tails. Judging by the fact the tails were the first thing she manifested in her fight, they must have played a major role in her fighting style.
Now her defensive capabilies we have something on. Lucerea made mouths. And attacks that left their weapon in the wound would get eaten, as she would make mouths appear in the place of the wounds. Getting in close could also end up in being eaten, and grabbing ahold of her is defenetly out. I'd like to know if she had been a defensive type, unlike her sister. The ability to turn wounds into weapons, almost seems like it would fit as the evolution of regeneration.
One more thing is very much of note for Lucerea is her death. Her back was snapped by her sister, something that seems slightly odd to kill an awakened. Even normal Claymores, like Claire, Jean, and Deneve, fail to even be paralyzed when missing large chunks of their spinal colum. So how did Raphelea kill her sister, even in Lucrea's human form like that? It's my beleif that what really killed her was exaustion. We know that she was exausted, too exausted to keep her awakened form. As long as a Claymore or awakened has some Youki in reserve, they not only can use it to regenerate, but also to perserve the body, until the vital parts are restored, and to serve as bypasses and backup systems. Lucerea didn't have any Youki left at all when she encountered her sister, having used the last of it to escape from Isley. Simply put when her body tried to repair and comphensate for her snapped back, their was nothing their. In trying to save herself, she used the last of her strength and killed herself.
It is worth noting that not even awakening changed her feeling for her sister compleatly. She was truly happy to see Raphelea, although that was somewhat by the talking about counquring all the lands. But as she said, she had wanted to see Raphelea for so long. Sadly their reunion ended in death.

So any preferences for the next on? I've got Isley, Priscilla, and Alicia to go.

[B-day]

Next Isley please, he is so sleek:p

[SimplyEd]

Nice one, Negativedark! As for the next one, i'd vote for Alicia.


Hmm, since there seem to be a lot of new posts being added to the biology thread, and i think that i've covered a lot of the more theoretical aspects of Claymore in the past, i think it would be time to take a closer look at some of the special abilities of various Claymores.

I've already covered Teresas/Clares youki reading before and for the next post i'm probably going to tackle "Ophelias Sazanami" or "Rippling" as wikipedia tells me, since i only read the japanese version.

[Negativedark]

I'd like a tiebreaker by morning, but if that doesn't happen, I'll just have to think of something.

[SimplyEd]

Don't worry, Negativedark. If there's a tie-up, just take the first request.

Okay, as for the second entry in my ongoing series for various Claymores abilities, here's the one for Ophelia.

A fair warning: As always, pure anime-watchers will get spoiled massively. Then again, pure anime-watchers shouldn't even be reading the more spoilerish threads around here.


I'll try to concentrate on detailing Ophelias Sazanami/Rippling, therefore i want to forego on a character description for her, for the time being.

Ophelias trademark move is one of the more impressive to behold. Although it is quite certain that most who will ever see it will not live long enough to actually tell about it. Hence why it is widely unknown to other Claymores as well.

She even mocks Clare about it by telling her her favourite name for that move, fully knowing that Clare would not be able to actually spread the word.
Of course, we, as enthusiast manga readers,know that ultimately it was Ophelia who met her end.
Nevertheless, her trademark mark proved to be a serious nemesis-type of attack against Clares youki-reading.

For the naked eye, it seems like Ophelias sword is moving like a snake, or rather in a snake like fashion. As if it had a will of its own. But that's merely an illusion.
Ophelia gathers large amounts of youki in her swordarm and then shakes and waves it at an extremely high speed. The movements of the sword will then become distorted. It looks like smaller and larger waves following each other unpredictably, even errenous.

Now, i described it as a nemesis-type of move, while that only covers half of the truth. Actually, Clares youki-reading works just fine, she can predict Ophelias intentions just fine and Clares body will react accordingly.
The problem is that youki-reading only covers the bodily part of Ophelias attack.
The shaking and whirling sword is moving so fast and unpredictable that even though "reading" allows Clare to react, her body just can't match up to the speed and ferocity of the attack.

Ophelia calls it Sazanami/Rippling and that's just what it does, wavelets of motion in various forms will follow upon each other, increasing speed and intensity of the former wavelet.
In essence, a highly potent attack against any type of opponent. The only ones who could hope to escape or even counter it would be those who could predict Ophelias intentions AND have an extraordinary physical constitution and fighting prowess.

As a "reader", Clare manages the first part, but she's lacking in the latter. If you'll allow me the sentiment, i would guess that Teresa would not have had such a problem with Ophelia, for example. Then again, Clare stumbled over Ophelia when she was still at the beginning of discovering her potential.

As a kind of trivia, Ophelias attack pattern tells much about her personality and even her later form as an Awakened.

Here's a short summary for what's established so far:

Pros: extremely potent against any type of opponent; can potentially outdo youki-reading; speed and ferocity may be varied according to needs which makes it one of the more economic abilities that are still youki-based.

Cons: may be countered by youki-readers or high-ranking Claymores who posess
extraordinary agility and fighting prowess not necessarily relying on youki; as a youki based attack it may be influenced by youki manipulation


As you can see, the Cons are mostly "if" related. Therefore, it can be said that Ophelias attack is one of the most deadly ones we have seen so far. Not so much because of the intial damage it delivers, but because of its almost undodgeable/blockable nature.

[Negativedark]

One thing you forgot.You forgot to adress the one techneque we saw that compleatly destroyed the Sazanami. The quicksword. Unless you plan on doing more techneqe analysis. Witch I'm looking forward to.
Okay then, I'll go with the first vote.But don't worry I'll probably get to Alicia later today.
Isley, of the North.
As the first Abyssal, Isley is the one who whould have shown the organization just how terrible an awakened biengs power could be. For a period of time, prior to Riful's awakening, he would have been the most powerful bieng in the world. Even before that he must have been a great warrior. As Raki notes, his swordsmanship is superb. Maybe he still remembers it from his days as a Claymore. Or maybe he still practices. Even an Abysall may need a hobby. It's unknown if he's an offensive or defensive type. Personally I'd guess offensive.
Speaking of offense, his is exellent. Like all the Abysall ones he has been observed to transform only part of his body, his arm. His awakened form is a demonic Centuar, and quite frankly looks kickass. He appears to have armor like plates for skin, and can change his hands into weapons. Thus far the following have beens displayed.
The bow. Used in much of the fight with Lucerea. This gives him a distinctive range advantage. What's more not only are the arrows larger than most spears, but they can home in on their target. Lucerea noted that in his fully transformed state the speed, power and presision of the arrows greatly increased. Also look closely at the arrows. They have eyes on them. Isley doesn't need to split his concentration to control his arrows. They can seek their target themselves. Like Dauf's rods, they are alive, but are even more complex.
The other two weapons that Isley manifested were a lance, and a shield. The properties of these are unknown, as we did not see them used in combat. It can be assumed at the very least they are very durable, althogh in the aftermath of his fight with Lucerea, the lance was broken. Also I have no reason to belive he cannot create other weapons if required, such as a sword.
Isley's deffensive capabilites are still largely unknown. The entire section of the fight we were shown had him on the offensive. His hide appears armored, and considering he is an abyssal, I would imagine he has a great deal of resistance to most attempts to damage him.
I would not advise attemping to ride on Isley's back. The bladewings on his shoulders cannot possibly for flight, but are in a perfect location to skewer anyone who tries that. They may also serve as a counterweight for his weapons. I suppose if she asked he'd give Priscilla a ride.
It is worth noting that Isley is a brillient strategist. He was able to organize a large number of awakened for the northern campain, then throw them away as part of his plan. However he does seem to legitamatly care for Priscilla, and interstingly enough, Raki.

[Negativedark]

Sorry about double posting, but it's time to cover the next article.Alicia, the organizations trump card.
If your the Organization you have 3 really serous problems. Isley, Riful and Lucerea. It used to be two problems, but your attmept to adress it previosly backfired, and now you have three. So you realize that you need to modify your plans a little. Even more strident criterea must be applied to the subjects. You need twins, preferably identicle. Then, from birth, you condition them. You use the same Yoma material while hybridizing. Unnecisary things like personaity are not even alowed to develop. In the end what you have are not two individual people, but two machines made to work in unison.
Nothing is known about Alicia, or Beth as actual Claymores. We don't know if they are offensive or defensive types, or what their special fighting styles are. Alicia is said to be the strongest Claymore in history, but that may only be the case because of her ability to transform.
In her awakened state Alicia can do but one thing. Kill the enemy before her. To me she looks a lot like the Queen Alien. Her primary weapons are her bladed arms, and the most special thing she's been seen to do is streach her arm, something that it seems most Claymores can do with high enough Youki usage. So really her main power is high base stats. She's fast, though I would wager no where near as fast as Rigard, and strong enough to cut most awakened in half with a single blow. That said her lack of anything special, like Rifuls body structure, Isleys weapons, or Lucerea's mouths, make me belive that she may be the weakest of the Abyssal class.
Oh and she does have another glaring weakness. Since her mind is entrusted to Beth, who goes into a trance, there is speculation on what would happen if something were to happen to Beth. The most likly outcome is Alicia would become a regular, if somewhat lacking in personality, awakened. Also her somewhat mechanical state of mind could put her at a disadvantage when faced with the cunning of Isley and Riful. The org seems to be taking no chances, preffering to avoid having Alicia fight the other Abysall's on their own turf.

Next time, the one who may be the most important Awakened in the series. Priscilla.

[SimplyEd]

One thing you forgot.


Yes, it does seem so at first but actually i was counting Irenes Kousokuken among the Cons. Specifically the "high-ranking Claymores who posess
extraordinary agility and fighting prowess" part had Irene in mind.
I just didn't want to name all possible attacks that could outdo Sazanami.

But don't worry, i'll keep posting other abilities and Irenes will have a special remark about being a good counter versus Sazanami among others^^

[Seska]

My shoot.

They made the Claymores from some kind of Master DNA sample. Its my best shoot, to explain some things.

All have the same hair color.
All have the same Eye color.

And for the force of them. They use some kind of 1/3 Master DNA and 2/3 of Host DNA to mix them together.
Of course they can go into 7/12 Master and 5/12 Host DNA, and so on. You get my point?

They have their ultimate Awakened being. Or at last some DNA from it... And they are trying to recreate this ultimate being... But failed so far. or they try to raise some Anti-weapon to fight this Ultimate being. or they searching for the Master DNA force under human Brain control....

Like the backgrounds of the Mechas in NGE....

[Anh_Minh]

They're made from different yoma. Not necessarily one yoma per Claymore, but they had to specify that Alicia and Beth were from the same one.

[Tempest35]

Yes, it does seem so at first but actually i was counting Irenes Kousokuken among the Cons. Specifically the "high-ranking Claymores who posess
extraordinary agility and fighting prowess" part had Irene in mind.
I just didn't want to name all possible attacks that could outdo Sazanami.

But don't worry, i'll keep posting other abilities and Irenes will have a special remark about being a good counter versus Sazanami among others^^


We definitely need one for Flash Sword/Quicksword Irene - she's so much win in all respects. Although, something just hit me - why would Teresa vs Priscilla's quicksword match have shaken the town while Teresa vs Irene's match didn't do squat for damage in comparison? I know that Priscilla could NOT have outdone Irene's sword speed so that can't be it...


It's too bad that we won't know just how powerful Quicksword done at 100% by Irene or even Clare would be since we don't know how much strength she put into countering Ophelia.

[SimplyEd]

@Seska


The problem is, we don't know wether they are actually performing genetic engineering or something more arcane in nature.

Yes they merge the tissue of both human and youma, but the phenotypical expressions on the outside most likely stem from the influence of youki, rather than the youma DNA.
Clarice would be a good example, since she lacks those expressions for the most part and her youki seems to be..well, exorbitantly low. It is not outrightly said so, but her being Rank 47 and her several mess-ups are a good position to work with.

Clares amount of youki is also comparatively low, but she uses what she has more effectively.

Add to that, that Claymores only transform into a more youma-like form for a rather short time before they yet again transform into something completely different. As Claymores, the individuals are essentially humans. Albeit very potent humans.

We don't even know so much what "merge" actually really means since there's no way to accurately deduct the true method of "merging".

Since i'm tending more towards an "alchemy" version, it could also be the case that both types of tissue are bound inside the same body, yet they remain separate, in check say to say. At the same time their youki is separated through some type of inhibitor, which they can consciously control.
High amounts of youki leakage would then initiate a real merging and transformation of the human tissue.

The sole constant in this type of argumentation, of course, remains youki. It is the alpha and omega for transformation. Once it subsides to lower levels, before Awakeneing is truly complete, the body will return to that of a human.

In any case, i think there are various types of youma tissue on which the Org maintains their merging experiments. Not just one "Master DNA".


@ Tempest35


Hmm, my personal take on that would be that Priscillas attacks were extremely fast and packed a serious wallop. That is to say, their clash was once again on a much higher level than even that of Irene.
Irene goes mostly for super velocity attacks which leave many wounds. Each of which are not necessarily that deep, but it's the sheer mass at a very condensed amount of time....hmm, i'm just taking a lot of beef out of my future expositions...

I will prepare something for Irene, maybe not for the very next post, but for the near future.

[Seska]

Mmm, look like your right...


Irene = Quicksword Master
Flora = Windcutter Master (looks nearly the same for me...)
after 7 years...
Claymore nr.3 = Windcutter skill....

Undine = Muscle Claymore
Deneve = Muscle Claymore
after 7 Years...
comrad of Nr.3 = Muscle Claymore...

Looks like they have 3-4 kind of Skill base or Claymores Base skills.

I wonder, if they have some "Winged" Claymore DNA Base ,too. Or is Pricilia power her wings, that they fear the most?....

[SimplyEd]

Well, it would seem that i'm somewhat unable to sleep tonight, which is why i'll go ahead with my portrayal of various Claymores abilities.

This time, we'll take a closer look at Irenes Kousokuken/Quicksword.


Seeing that i took a shot at Ophelias Sazanami last time, it's only fair to deliver an overlook for the one and only move that actually pulled the teeth of the vicious snake :heh:

Quicksword, albeit a fitting english variant, almost makes the real deal sound slow, if you don't mind me saying so. Seeing of what kind of high velocity her attack is actually capable of, one should really wonder how strong a character Teresa really was. As we all know, which i'll blatantly assume at this point, our dear Goddess of the Faint Smile was the one to cancel her attack without even breaking a sweat, leaving Irene shocked in her boots.

Still, we are talking about some of the mightiest Claymores of all times here and as such, Quicksword is a true marvel to behold.
Even for Claymores it's almost impossible to actually see any arm movement at all, instead they usually only see scaring of the surroundings and freshly carved multitudes of wounds spraying open on pityable victims.

Irene accomplishes this feat by flooding her right arm with an enormous amount of youki. Her arm will then be pushed to the verge of Awakening, the time when the youki starts to transform her human tissue. At exactly this time, Irene focuses her entire willpower into keeping the youki from flooding out of the arm and into every other part of the body. The arm, still on the verge of Awakening will then start to go ballistic, releasing the stored energy, which Irene then relinks into extreme velocities of sword movement.

These movements are too fast to discern with the naked eye.
The true challenge with this technique lies actually in the enormous amount of willpower you have to invest, and not so much in the actual execution of the ability. Irene has to stay focused at all times, so that her own youki doesn't go out of control.

Quicksword is a technique that can be aquired, meaning that other Claymores may be able to learn and train it with a lot of work. But it has to be said that this type of Quicksword will probably never reach the sheer perfection that Irene was capable of.

Irene was a brilliant swordfighter with a superior physique, only bested by very few other Claymores. In a way, her body, especially her right arm, were tailormade for fighting with Quicksword.

Clare was taught the basics of Quicksword by Irene herself, but it soon became clear that while she was able to learn those basics, she would only have been able to use it at a very low level or even none at all. A major problem being her insufficient willpower and physical prowess. Hence why she inherited Irenes arm, with which she was able to succesfully use Quicksword finally.

Inherently, Quicksword relies mainly on speed and not so much on brute strength. Even though Irene was also able to muster a great deal of power herself, further enhancing Quickswords devastating results.
The attacks main goal lies in creating a large amount of not necessarily deep wounds in an extremely short amount of time. The victim would then collapse, covered in open wounds across the whole body, either stunned by the horrible quantity of pain or outright killed if Irene put more whack into it.

Quicksword is, for all intents and purposes, a largely youki-based ability and may therefore not be suited for matters of stealth or keeping the youki output as minimal as possible.

Here's the short summary as always:

Pros: extremely deadly against any type of fighter with the sole exception of youki-readers coupled with a superior conventional fighting prowess; has a major effect on an enemies psyche and morale; the answer to Sazanami; may be used to chop firewood and slash various other items into smithereens;)

Cons: highly reliant on willpower and physical capability; good/superior youki handling is required; potentially weak against youki-readers and superior fighters; not suited for stealth and times of required youki suppression; as a youki-based attack, it may be endangered by youki-manipulation

[Negativedark]

And now time for me to continue....
Priscilla. The Ultimate Awakened Bieng.
Or at least that's what both Isley and Riful seem to belive. According to them, it would take two Abyssals going all out to stand a chance of defeating her. But the question remains, just what makes her so strong?
As a Claymore she was young, idealistic, tremendously powerful, had immense potential, and never released Youki if she could help it. In some ways she fits the mold of a shonen manga protagonist. We don't know what type of Claymore she was, although her repeating how she doesn't want to die could be taken as evidence of bieng a defensive type. It's grasping at straws though. What we do know is that when she released Youki, a tremendous amount was avalible. She was still hoplessly outmatched by Teresea's skill. Perhaps in time, with experience that would have changed.
As an awakened, Priscilla resembles a fallen angel to me. Her wings arn't batlike as demons are normally depicted, but resemble a fleshy coruption of an angels. They are also her most unique feature. Priscilla is the only awakened thus far who has actually been observed to fly. It is probable however that Jean's awakened form could fly. The single horn on her head could also be a stylistic reference to the Japanese Oni. Otherwise her abilites resemble those of normal Youma. She utilized the stretchy fingers to kill both Sophia and Noel, and her sword to injure Ilena. She displayed the apility to send out tendrils to connect to her arm after Noel severed it, and immediatly regained control of the limb.
Still that doesn't seem as noteworthy as some of the special powers that other awakened have displayed. So what makes her so powerful? There are two possibilities. One is that she has special powers yet to be displayed. Another is that her base stats are the highest of all awakened. Speed, Strength, Endurence, Youki reserves, etc. All could be off the scale.
Another thing to note is Priscilla's mental state. I won't go into the oft disscussed little girls thing, but there are several things to note. There have been three distinct personalites for Priscilla.
Claymore Priscilla-The justice freak. She had a very black and white outlook on life, and at heart was a child desperatly trying to make sense of a tragedy.
Awakened Priscilla-The monster. Revels in her power, and wants to eat people alive.
Current Priscilla- The innocent. Acts like a child, and looks like one too. Seems hard to belive that she is the same person as the above noted personalities.
Also to note is that her apperence has changed in her human form since awakening. Not only has she regained her original eye and hair coloration, but she looks younger than before. This may not be unique for her however. The humanoid parts of Riful's awakened state have a more mature figure than her human form. Perhaps awakened can influence the age of their human form? It'll be interesting to see if she has changed agian in the last seven years.
Finally I would like to bring up on more point. Priscilla's Claymore sword. She is the only awakened to have shown an intrest in keeping it, as she was still holding it when she flew off after awakening. She is also one of the few awakened to have a form capable of using it still. I wonder if she still has it?

Tommorow I conclude this series withPartially Awakened Claire.

[SimplyEd]

So, for the next entry i would like to say that i'm rather..torn. I can't seem to come to a conclusion who should be the happy winner.
Having established that, the next one will be a surprise. Which means that i'll probably be more surprised than the readers :D

Nevertheless, a very hot candidate remains Miria. I'll have to invest some investigation for the time being though.
I'm also open for requests while i'm trying to ground up some lore for the "World of Claymore" thread.

[Negativedark]

Well time for my last article. Be warned, if you have not read up to the end of volume 11, this has insane spoilers. For those of you watching the Anime, it's probably going to be the end of the season. I mean it. It will be fully spoiled
Our final subject will cover perhaps the most in depth case of the actual process of awakening yet seen. I am reffeing to the Partially Awakened Claire.
It has been speculated elsewhere that ones mental state and desires at the time of awakening influnce the form ones awakened self takes. Claire would be a perfect example of this. Her thaoughts were filled with a desire for speed, brought on by her helplessness to prevent the slaughter of Jean and Flora, and a desperate desire to save Miria. If so then if Claire ever awakens again, her form may be compleatly different. Another thing to note is that the ability to awaken only specific limbs could well have been born out of her training with the quicksword.
Legs- The first thing Claire awakens are her legs. In order to stand any chance of stopping Rigard, speed was needed. Claires awakened legs are very odd in appernce. To me they look to have a metallic shine. The knees are reversed, and split into three struts before merging back into a more traditional leg. Instead of feet, Claire had hooves like a horses. In all it seems almost mechanical in desighn. The one thing that cannot be debated is that it gave Claire the speed she desired. Such speed that she easily outpaced Rigard. Indeed, she may very well have been the fastest charecter yet seen in the series. However their was problem. Such speed was impossible to control. Rigard was able to dodge, and Claire was back at being unable to hit him.
Left Arm-In order to control her movement, and change direction, Claire awoke her left arm. It went through two distinct forms. One was somewhat more traditional. A huge hand with big sharp claws on a longer arm. The second form was somewhat freakier. The second form, witch manefested right before she killed Rigard, was a mass of fleshy limbs, each of witch ended in a massive bladelike claw. In short, made for cutting things to pieces. But to break through Rigard's defence and finish things, still more was needed.
Right Arm- Perhaps unsurprisingly Claires right arm was compleatly different from her left. After all it was originally Ilena's. But the pourpose of the arm remains the same. To cut Rigard into tiny little peices. While the main arm remains human looking, several bladed chains have sprouted. Now in addition to her sword, Claire could use each of those blades for the quicksword. Several flexable blades perforiming the quicksword. Unless you have some increadible deffensive capabilities, that would be utterly lethal.
So what does this mean? As Rigard himself states, the moment Claire awakens all four limbs, he is dead. And remember, only Claire's limbs have awoken. The rest of her remains a standerd Claymore, abiet at the maximum of Youki release. How much more powerful could she have become if she had trully fully awakened? It is my opinion that she could rival an Abyssall one at the very least. She may even be able to go beyond them, inot the realm inhabited soley by Priscilla.

[SimplyEd]

Congratulations on concluding your series of in-depth overviews with yet another fine summary, Negativedark. ;)


Today, i'm kind of restless, because of the new "world" thread and because i'm still gathering information on various other subjects. By popular consent, meaning i decided myself, i'll continue my ongoing series with our dear Phantom Miria, who seems to be rather indifferent to every speed-limit she might encounter. A true hazard for public traffic in every sense. ;)


Mirias special ability is actually a variation and improvement of the popular stat-burst, triggered by short and intense releases of youki to achieve various effects.
In the case of Miria, she can, for a very limited amount of time, achieve extreme speeds of movement. It is very possible that she can reach near or actual light speed, though we can't be to sure about her maximum speed potential.

Her "usual" speed increase will leave behind a phantom image of herself, on the same spot where she stood before activating her ability. Her opponent will not be able to see through this trick and think she's still standing in place, only to be massivly surprised when his attacks run right through the mirage.

Mirias aptitude for speed increase is higher than that of every other Claymore currently on duty, but there's a heavy toll she has to pay for it. First and foremost being a huge load of stress on her body, due to the short, yet violent youki bursts.

Usually, she'll refrain from using her ability at all, if possible and if that is not an option she'll try to keep the number of uses as low as possible, usually around 10-20 times. Every consecutive uasge may harm her body and mentality further, as the stress and increasing amount of youki in her metabolism will push her further towards a breakdown and a very likely awakening.

The main problem lies with the fact that she just can't maintain her speed for very long, hence why she has to activate it all over again quite often during a major fight.

In essence, her ability is both, a last resort and finishing strike ability. A last resort because of the afore mentioned repercussions to her physical status and a finishing strike ability in a sense of killing the opponent as quick as possible with a desired minimum of actual uses of stat burst. Thankfully, Miria is a very well-versed and accomplished fighter who can hold herself against most types of foes.

She's not exactly Top 5 material the first time we get to know her but she manages to constantly get better overall with time. She has a bright head and is a natural born leader. Both of these traits, coupled with her special ability, allowed her to survive greater odds than most other people would have thought possible.

In recent days, she has even managed to come up with an improved version of her ability, a more economic one. Essentially, she reduced the intensity and therefore impacts of the previous instant and violent youki burst and worked out a more refined acceleration and movement pattern, which will allow her to use her ability seemingly limitless. Although her maximum speed was reduced that way, the benefits far outweigh this shortcomeing.


Although her Mirage may not actually count as a more conventional offensive ability, it is still a beauty to behold..that is, of course, if you don't happen to be the one it is targeted against^^

Here's the summary:

Pros: extreme speed to avoid damage from attacks and counterattacks; Mirage creates openings in the opponents attack pattern; has a major impact on psyche and morale; may be used to get oneself and other comrades off the battlefield; offers great potential as a distraction and therefore as a backup attack to prepare other coordinated attacks with others.

Cons (pre-improvement): only useable for a short amount of time and limited consecutive times; high stress toll on physique and mentality; Miria has to rely on conventional fighting prowess to overcome the foe; youki-readers and superior fighters may be able to deliver a surprising amount of resistance (not to say, they are potentially able to outdo the mirage).

Cons (post-improvement): reduced maximum speed; usage is limitless but still limited in duration; Miria still has to rely on her conventional fighting to achieve victory; the same problems with youki-readers and superior fighters.

[Negativedark]

Okay I got a request for your next one SimplyEd.
Jean's drill sword.
I'm probably done for now. When my copy of volume 8 comes in the mail, I may do another one, but barring something spectacular happening in the manga in Japan, my series is done.

[SimplyEd]

Okeydokey, i'll look into it^^

Don't worry, i'm fairly certain that there'll be a lot more individuals for you to analyze in the future, seeing that we're probably only halfway through the main story. ;)

[SimplyEd]

As per request, i'll take a look at Jeans Drill Attack for today.


Among the currently active Claymores of the Org, there's a rumor going around that Jean, being the lovely and honourable maiden that she is, posesses the attack with the greatest damage output.

To achieve those ends, Jean twirls her swordarm around itself by inducing large quantities of youki. Her maximum number of rotations seems to be around 20-21, at which point her body will start to transform because of the influence of the accumulatated youki. As such, there is a limited amount of times she can use her attack, because it puts a great deal of stress and danger to her body.

She then waits for an opening in the attack pattern of her enemy and releases the drill motion. This whole process is a correlation of torque(signifying the role of force in a progressing motion);momentum;impulse and induced physical and supernatural force.

In a way it is much like Ophelias Sazanami, so that each consecutive motion will enhance the former one in velocity and power for a desired maximum (difference being that Sazanami can be regulated much better and that it is based on wave-like motions in contrast to the drills rotation plus that Sazanamis damage type would count among "slashing").

The type of damage that is applied to the victim on impact is not so much pure slashing as you'd expect from a Claymore, but rather an initial "piercing" that will be followed by "ripping" and "tearing" apart via physical rotational force and supernatural youki energy induced into the attack, which will also be applied on impact.

The attack itself is virtually unstoppable, because it tears apart matter. So the best way to counter it, would be to keep away from it. It also needs a fair bit of time before it is initially prepared. During this time, Jean is somewhat prone to enemy attacks, which is why it is best used as a combo attack with the support of other Claymores, doing their best to distract the enemy.
Also, since it is largely youki-based, the initial process and the time before impact would be endangered by youki manipulators.

After the tragic demise of Jean, it seems like Helen picked up her attack pattern, seeing that her own special ability and flexible arm physique match it quite well.
As such, the Drill is an attack that can be aquired, although, as always, its full potential may only be reserved to the original inventor.

Now, for the summary:

Pros: virtually unstoppable and therefore extremely deadly for any type of enemy should it land a hit; the rotational motion not only offers the attack but also some sort of defensive "shield" versus frontal counterattacks; huge moral impact on all the involved individuals; creates "openings" in the enemy :D

Cons: takes time to prepare; can only be used a couple of times; has all the weaknesses of other youki-based attacks; as a one-hit-one-kill move, it's very much reliant on a definite hit and may therefore be required to be launched as a combo with other Claymores attacks; while the rotation offers shielding to the front, her side and back are somewhat defenseless during her attack.

[Anh_Minh]

She could only use it twice after being tortured for hours, and her... "episode"... It's not the same as if she'd been healthy.

[SimplyEd]

She could only use it twice after being tortured for hours, and her... "episode"... It's not the same as if she'd been healthy.


Very true. It's quite hard to pinpoint its maximum amount of usage, though i would suggest that it's not that often even if she was in perfect health. Still, you're right, she should be able to pull it off more often if the conditions are right.

[Negativedark]

Very true. It's quite hard to pinpoint its maximum amount of usage, though i would suggest that it's not that often even if she was in perfect health. Still, you're right, she should be able to pull it off more often if the conditions are right.


Also
If the limits of the Claymore perforiming the move are raised, say by a partial awakening, then that could also increase the number. What's more Helen's usage of it shows it can be used as an undetectible, that is to say, without realeasing Youki.

[SimplyEd]

Good points! Yes, partial awakening is bound to increase the actual usage. Now it just remains to see how often that would actually be then. The stress on the body would still remain with progressing time though.

About Helen: Hmm, i would guess her flexible arms would give her a lot more leeway when it comes to inducing youki into the attack. Apart from that, there's not much info on how effective her version of the drill attack actually is. All of the Lucky7 specifically trained their abilities with as little youki usage as possible. Their main goal was stealth, subtlety and economy of resources, i guess.

[SimplyEd]

Okay, since i'm making some good progress it seems, there's no reason to hold back on everybodies new idol: Galatea and her wide array of fantabulous feats of wonderment!


Even if it doesn't seem so at first, Galatea is truly a jack of all trades..and a darn great one at that! By giving you a survey of our dear "Miss Claymore", i can actually cover no less than 3 different special abilities and i can give you an example of a truly superior swordswoman to boot.
Usually, you'd think of such an omniversed character as "merely good" at everything yet not excelling at anything. Nothing could be more far from the truth.

Let's start with the most obvious one of her abilities: supreme youki-sensing.
People who have followed my discourse over youki-reading should be aware of the basic lore concerning this passive feat. All other people may know it as well^^

Youki-sensing is an inate ability of every single Claymore. It's their first line of defense and offense, since they rely on it to identify youmas among the human populace and in the outside wilderness. For the most part of the active Claymores, this feat is very much restricted to medium and short range. Only very few Claymores may have enough potential and training to increase the effective operating range.

Galatea is special in this regard, because she is the "Eye of the Organization" of her generation. Her aptitude for sensing is superior to that of any other Claymore currently on duty. She can effectivly detect youki presence over extreme distances and is even capable of a highly accurate awareness of various characteristics and every single status change of individuals which she spies upon.

Youki-sensing, as a passive feat, does not rely on the usage of her own youki. Galateas whole presence is that of a focused, composed veteran with a sharp and quick mindset. It seems like the easiest thing in the world for her to discern the situation of a large battlefield over extreme distances. It's almost like all the information comes naturally to her, without much effort on her part.
Which is why it's, seemingly, almost impossible for her to get surprised or outright caught off-guard even in dire situations.

Still, even though her supreme youki-sensing offers such a broad spectrum of useful knowledge, it's not the same as youki-reading, which is vastly more useful for actual close combat.

Her second special ability would be supreme youki manipulation.

Galatea may take control over the body of other individuals by aligning her own youki with that of others. This feat does not only apply for weaker or equally strong characters it is used against, but also, to a certain degree, against stronger opponents, who may experience a disturbance or disruption in their youki flow.

Still, this is not something she can do for an overly extended amount of time, since it will have repercussions on her own bodily resources, especially if her own status should change through extreme distraction or by getting wounded and the like.

With the use of youki manipulation, Galatea may counteract certain youki-based attacks or outright cancel them beforehand. Supreme youki manipulation may also be used to counteract the process of awakening by aggressivly supressing youki release in her comrades bodies.

This feat is, of course, youki-based in itself, and it requires greater control of youki and a stout and focused willpower. Other Claymores, who want to use youki-manipulation to cancel awakening are faced with extreme stress and exhaustion to their own bodies. Only Galatea may use this technique to the fullest without reaching her own limit too soon.

Youki-manipulation may be outdone by the use of youki-suppressant pills in theory, but it remains to be seen how far Galatea can actually take this invasive technique, whether she can even work with dormant youki flows inside other Claymores or other opponents bodies.

Her third ability is that of supreme specialized stat-burst.

It is said that, among the recently active Claymores, Galateas proportional stat-burst for physical strength, by releasing her own youki, is the strongest in aptitude.

Even without utilizing her own youki, Galatea is already a more than accomplished swordfighter, capable of taking even vastly stronger opponents head on. With the use of her third ability, she manages to even apply the seemingly strongest physical strength to her attacks, thereby slashing through the defenses of formerly "untouchable" opponents. She literally becomes a muscular power-house for a certain amount of time.

This is probably the most peculiar ability for this otherwise elegant, somewhat vain and aloof (only once you get to know her better) beauty.

But that only shows, that one should never underestimate a battle-hardened warrior, especially when she's, for all intents and purposes, a defensive type.

All of these assets make Galatea one of the most versatile and capable warriors who have survived till this day. Her actual fighting prowess and potential are certainly superior and there's no telling to what extremes she has actually matured in recent times.

Here's the summary:

Pros: All of her combined abilities and physical capabilites make her highly versatile and a dangerous, if not outright deadly opponent for almost every living being; range and aptitude remain the outstanding virtues, if they are not canceled in some way otherwise, her opponents will probably never get close enough to take a closer look at her beautiful face^^


Cons: most of her abilities are youki-based or require a source of youki in her opponents body, which she can work with; as usual, the usage of her own youki will come with the already established dangers and limitations

[Twisted Reality]

Okay, since i'm making some good progress it seems, there's no reason to hold back on everybodies new idol: Galatea and her wide array of fantabulous feats of wonderment!


Even if it doesn't seem so at first, Galatea is truly a jack of all trades..and a darn great one at that! By giving you a survey of our dear "Miss Claymore", i can actually cover no less than 3 different special abilities and i can give you an example of a truly superior swordswoman to boot.
Usually, you'd think of such an omniversed character as "merely good" at everything yet not excelling at anything. Nothing could be more far from the truth.

Let's start with the most obvious one of her abilities: supreme youki-sensing.
People who have followed my discourse over youki-reading should be aware of the basic lore concerning this passive feat. All other people may know it as well^^

Youki-sensing is an inate ability of every single Claymore. It's their first line of defense and offense, since they rely on it to identify youmas among the human populace and in the outside wilderness. For the most part of the active Claymores, this feat is very much restricted to medium and short range. Only very few Claymores may have enough potential and training to increase the effective operating range.

Galatea is special in this regard, because she is the "Eye of the Organization" of her generation. Her aptitude for sensing is superior to that of any other Claymore currently on duty. She can effectivly detect youki presence over extreme distances and is even capable of a highly accurate awareness of various characteristics and every single status change of individuals which she spies upon.

Youki-sensing, as a passive feat, does not rely on the usage of her own youki. Galateas whole presence is that of a focused, composed veteran with a sharp and quick mindset. It seems like the easiest thing in the world for her to discern the situation of a large battlefield over extreme distances. It's almost like all the information comes naturally to her, without much effort on her part.
Which is why it's, seemingly, almost impossible for her to get surprised or outright caught off-guard even in dire situations.

Still, even though her supreme youki-sensing offers such a broad spectrum of useful knowledge, it's not the same as youki-reading, which is vastly more useful for actual close combat.

Her second special ability would be supreme youki manipulation.

Galatea may take control over the body of other individuals by aligning her own youki with that of others. This feat does not only apply for weaker or equally strong characters it is used against, but also, to a certain degree, against stronger opponents, who may experience a disturbance or disruption in their youki flow.

Still, this is not something she can do for an overly extended amount of time, since it will have repercussions on her own bodily resources, especially if her own status should change through extreme distraction or by getting wounded and the like.

With the use of youki manipulation, Galatea may counteract certain youki-based attacks or outright cancel them beforehand. Supreme youki manipulation may also be used to counteract the process of awakening by aggressivly supressing youki release in her comrades bodies.

This feat is, of course, youki-based in itself, and it requires greater control of youki and a stout and focused willpower. Other Claymores, who want to use youki-manipulation to cancel awakening are faced with extreme stress and exhaustion to their own bodies. Only Galatea may use this technique to the fullest without reaching her own limit too soon.

Youki-manipulation may be outdone by the use of youki-suppressant pills in theory, but it remains to be seen how far Galatea can actually take this invasive technique, whether she can even work with dormant youki flows inside other Claymores or other opponents bodies.

Her third ability is that of supreme specialized stat-burst.

It is said that, among the recently active Claymores, Galateas proportional stat-burst for physical strength, by releasing her own youki, is the strongest in aptitude.

Even without utilizing her own youki, Galatea is already a more than accomplished swordfighter, capable of taking even vastly stronger opponents head on. With the use of her third ability, she manages to even apply the seemingly strongest physical strength to her attacks, thereby slashing through the defenses of formerly "untouchable" opponents. She literally becomes a muscular power-house for a certain amount of time.

This is probably the most peculiar ability for this otherwise elegant, somewhat vain and aloof (only once you get to know her better) beauty.

But that only shows, that one should never underestimate a battle-hardened warrior, especially when she's, for all intents and purposes, a defensive type.

All of these assets make Galatea one of the most versatile and capable warriors who have survived till this day. Her actual fighting prowess and potential are certainly superior and there's no telling to what extremes she has actually matured in recent times.

Here's the summary:

Pros: All of her combined abilities and physical capabilites make her highly versatile and a dangerous, if not outright deadly opponent for almost every living being; range and aptitude remain the outstanding virtues, if they are not canceled in some way otherwise, her opponents will probably never get close enough to take a closer look at her beautiful face^^


Cons: most of her abilities are youki-based or require a source of youki in her opponents body, which she can work with; as usual, the usage of her own youki will come with the already established dangers and limitations


I've only read up to volume 8, which I've read only once, but it seems your explanation is too complex. I don't think we are seeing three separate powers so much as we are simply seeing three seperate consequences of her Yoki-reading ability. She doesn't use her reading to anticipate her opponent's next move, instead she deceives them and preys on their psychological weaknesses. I submit that, she indeed does use Yoki-reading in combat.

Galatea is sensitive enough to sense subtle emotional changes at a distance -- Clare's "whirlpool of passion." (In the words of Ilena.) She even goes far enough to infer that she has a walled-off type of personality. That's pretty much a dead-on assessment of Clare's psychology. She was even able to infer that Miria revealed "something disturbing" and that Helen was arguing back. She can't figure out how the Yoki energy and physical movements of her enemy will sync up; but she can sense their motivations, fears, surprise, expectations, gaps in cognitive ability and so forth. She can exploit all of these.

She mentions that she puts herself into her opponent's "blind spots." And I think her "control" is really just subtle psychological manipulation and empathic understanding of her foes. This is pretty apparent since she was somehow able to intimidate Dauf and break his fighting spirit. It wasn't until Riful threatened to abandon Dauf that he started getting his blows lined-up properly. She basically psyched him out by playing on his doubts that he was being "outsmarted." Let's face it, Dauf is probably aware that he's not very bright and he's probably used to having tricksters getting the better of him. Case-in-point: Riful.

Galatea also mentioned that Yoma-fied brains also tend to forget things quicker because of their regenerative brains. Presumably because Yoma learn-over things pretty quick. My guess is that she was able to exploit some sort of selective blindness in Dauf's short-term memory, which negatively impacted his "twitch reflex." She also used this in combination with her psych-out maneuver earlier, if only to get him to go, "aww crap...not this tricksy stuff again!"

Her comment about "aligning" her Yoki flow is wayyyyy to vague to draw any conclusions from. I don't think it's direct telepathic mind-control. Rather, I think this plays-into the "blindspot" thing. To be more specific, I think she's also able to deceive her enemies by sending out confusing Yoki signals. She can lull you into making moves based on misinformation, which creates yet greater openings to exploit. And she does this all on the spur-of-the-moment.

As for strength and agility boosts, I don't think she's exceptional for a Claymore in this regard. Part of actually landing a piercing blow through an armor plate is to get your center of gravity close to the intended striking point. A blow far-off from your center of gravity, particularly a cutting strike, will usually not penetrate an armored plate. It's all about leverage. So you have to step into that blow. Either that or you have to get them with blunt trauma, a weak gap in armor or hacking off enough armor.

My point is that she doesn't make this critical blow because she's exceptionally strong or fast. She just maneuvers herself into this position when a weakness is exposed. She can expose this weakness using her Yoki-reading. Barring that, she wins by pure swordsmanship and athleticism. I think that in the case of Dauf, she was also just a very good swordsman.

Basically, I think Galatea is a manipulative-psychologist type. She just empathizes with her enemy and sometimes understands their own weaknesses better than even her enemies do.

She would be at the greatest handicap around those Claymores with exceptional self-control and emotional stability, as their emotions are less likely to sway their actions (i.e. Ilena and possibly Miria). Likewise, she's probably disadvantaged to Claymores who typically fight while actively concentrating on keeping their Yoki completely suppressed (i.e. Pricilla, Theresa and Clare). She can still win in the latter case if she's the better athlete/swordswoman. Or if she were to go up against Clare, it would be a about who can read their opponent better, maintaining focus at suppressing Yoki and raw swordsmanship. I think she would simply lose to Theresa, as Theresa probably would surpass her for the majority of factors described thus far.

Also, actors are also capable of self-deception, such that physiological signs and cognitive processes of emotions can be faked. Basically, a Claymore who's used to being a good spy and used to living in disguise might have the kind of theatrical ability to deceive Galatea in turn, rather than having Galatea deceive her. Some parts of the mind can be pretty suggestible -- which explains some of alcohol's placebo effects and why hypnotism works.

[SimplyEd]

I've only read up to volume 8, which I've read only once, but it seems your explanation is too complex. I don't think we are seeing three separate powers so much as we are simply seeing three seperate consequences of her Yoki-reading ability. She doesn't use her reading to anticipate her opponent's next move, instead she deceives them and preys on their psychological weaknesses. I submit that, she indeed does use Yoki-reading in combat.


Eh, i don't want to sound too blunt now, but you've only read up to Volume 8? Doesn't that alone tell you something outright?..
A lot of information that i'm working with here is found in Volume 9 and ongoing till the very recent chapters.

No, there's nothing too complex with my explanations. Those abilities really are three separate types of feats. All three of them belong to the basic set of abilities that all Claymores share even to the slightest instance. It's just that Galatea is superior in every three of them. In the case of manipulation, she can even gain control of the body of others, which is very rare, to say the least.

And no, i do not think that what she does is youki-reading but sensing. I've already pinpointed the differences before, look it up if you want to.

Yes, she is a very empathic character by nature, working with the emotions and mentality of her opponents. My image of her is that of a highly intelligent strategist, no doubt. Still, her youki manipulation is not as subtle as it may seem, as it is an intrusive feat, that may just as well be used in an aggressive way to make ends work up.
Any good warrior would want to exploit the feats they have, and in case of Galatea, she doesn't even have to dirty her hands for the most part. But if she's pressed into an open fight, then she has the means to deliver a major spanking^^

Galatea is sensitive enough to sense subtle emotional changes at a distance -- Clare's "whirlpool of passion." (In the words of Ilena.) She even goes far enough to infer that she has a walled-off type of personality. That's pretty much a dead-on assessment of Clare's psychology. She was even able to infer that Miria revealed "something disturbing" and that Helen was arguing back. She can't figure out how the Yoki energy and physical movements of her enemy will sync up; but she can sense their motivations, fears, surprise, expectations, gaps in cognitive ability and so forth. She can exploit all of these.


Yes, Clare may seem calm and somewhat indifferent on the outside but deep inside she's as stirred up as one can be. Of course, that's all because of those traumatic events in the past. She is an able warrior. She didn't start out as such and had to work her ass off to reach the heights that she is capable of now.
She is not a natural born superhero. Far from it, she is one of those hard-working people who take everything they can get to reach their goals.
It's just that her emotions usually get the better of her when she's confronted with strong enemies or she sees a prospect to reach her ultimate goal, the destruction of Priscilla.

As for the rest, yes, youki sensing may allow her to "see" such things and she can work with it, no doubt.

She mentions that she puts herself into her opponent's "blind spots." And I think her "control" is really just subtle psychological manipulation and empathic understanding of her foes. This is pretty apparent since she was somehow able to intimidate Dauf and break his fighting spirit. It wasn't until Riful threatened to abandon Dauf that he started getting his blows lined-up properly. She basically psyched him out by playing on his doubts that he was being "outsmarted." Let's face it, Dauf is probably aware that he's not very bright and he's probably used to having tricksters getting the better of him. Case-in-point: Riful.

She does a whole lot more than just psychological tricks, mind you. That's just her first line of offense to gain the upper hand.
That won't work all the time, which is exactly when she'll muster her "big guns", her afore mentioned other abilities.

Galatea also mentioned that Yoma-fied brains also tend to forget things quicker because of their regenerative brains. Presumably because Yoma learn-over things pretty quick. My guess is that she was able to exploit some sort of selective blindness in Dauf's short-term memory, which negatively impacted his "twitch reflex." She also used this in combination with her psych-out maneuver earlier, if only to get him to go, "aww crap...not this tricksy stuff again!"

For all intents and purposes, she manipulates youki inside her opponents bodies to gain control of them. It doesn't work that well with stronger opponents. She may use it to gain control over, let's say, the jaw or a hand, to move them the way she wants for a short amount of time, long enough to exploit the opening.

Her comment about "aligning" her Yoki flow is wayyyyy to vague to draw any conclusions from. I don't think it's direct telepathic mind-control. Rather, I think this plays-into the "blindspot" thing. To be more specific, I think she's also able to deceive her enemies by sending out confusing Yoki signals. She can lull you into making moves based on misinformation, which creates yet greater openings to exploit. And she does this all on the spur-of-the-moment.

It's good enough to work with, when you know how she does use it in actuality. It's not direct mindcontrol, it's youki control. She aligns her youki with that of the enemy, and then directs it inside the opponents body to achieve a bodily reaction. When you're being remote controlled, this will have repercussions on your mind and morale. You will get agitated and may experience fear, confusion and the like, which will automatically influence the flow of the fight. Galatea doesn't need to outright control her opponents minds, it comes with the flow.

As for strength and agility boosts, I don't think she's exceptional for a Claymore in this regard. Part of actually landing a piercing blow through an armor plate is to get your center of gravity close to the intended striking point. A blow far-off from your center of gravity, particularly a cutting strike, will usually not penetrate an armored plate. It's all about leverage. So you have to step into that blow. Either that or you have to get them with blunt trauma, a weak gap in armor or hacking off enough armor.

Oh really? Well then, you may want to to take a look at Volume 9 and see for yourself.
Yes, stat-burst is something that any Claymore is capable of, it comes with the release of youki. Galateas stat-burst for proportionally increasing physical-strength
is said to be the strongest, as i outlined before.


... she was also just a very good swordsman.

Yes. Very good swordfighter.


Also, actors are also capable of self-deception, such that physiological signs and cognitive processes of emotions can be faked. Basically, a Claymore who's used to being a good spy and used to living in disguise might have the kind of theatrical ability to deceive Galatea in turn, rather than having Galatea deceive her. Some parts of the mind can be pretty suggestible -- which explains some of alcohol's placebo effects and why hypnotism works.

Well ,she's not infallible of course. And there are bound to be people who are better than her in many aspects. Still, she's a very accomplished warrior and she is very intelligent. Together with her special abilities she's an opponent to be reckoned with.

[Negativedark]

I've only read up to volume 8, which I've read only once, but it seems your explanation is too complex. I don't think we are seeing three separate powers so much as we are simply seeing three seperate consequences of her Yoki-reading ability. She doesn't use her reading to anticipate her opponent's next move, instead she deceives them and preys on their psychological weaknesses. I submit that, she indeed does use Yoki-reading in combat.

Galatea is sensitive enough to sense subtle emotional changes at a distance -- Clare's "whirlpool of passion." (In the words of Ilena.) She even goes far enough to infer that she has a walled-off type of personality. That's pretty much a dead-on assessment of Clare's psychology. She was even able to infer that Miria revealed "something disturbing" and that Helen was arguing back. She can't figure out how the Yoki energy and physical movements of her enemy will sync up; but she can sense their motivations, fears, surprise, expectations, gaps in cognitive ability and so forth. She can exploit all of these.

She mentions that she puts herself into her opponent's "blind spots." And I think her "control" is really just subtle psychological manipulation and empathic understanding of her foes. This is pretty apparent since she was somehow able to intimidate Dauf and break his fighting spirit. It wasn't until Riful threatened to abandon Dauf that he started getting his blows lined-up properly. She basically psyched him out by playing on his doubts that he was being "outsmarted." Let's face it, Dauf is probably aware that he's not very bright and he's probably used to having tricksters getting the better of him. Case-in-point: Riful.

Galatea also mentioned that Yoma-fied brains also tend to forget things quicker because of their regenerative brains. Presumably because Yoma learn-over things pretty quick. My guess is that she was able to exploit some sort of selective blindness in Dauf's short-term memory, which negatively impacted his "twitch reflex." She also used this in combination with her psych-out maneuver earlier, if only to get him to go, "aww crap...not this tricksy stuff again!"

Her comment about "aligning" her Yoki flow is wayyyyy to vague to draw any conclusions from. I don't think it's direct telepathic mind-control. Rather, I think this plays-into the "blindspot" thing. To be more specific, I think she's also able to deceive her enemies by sending out confusing Yoki signals. She can lull you into making moves based on misinformation, which creates yet greater openings to exploit. And she does this all on the spur-of-the-moment.

As for strength and agility boosts, I don't think she's exceptional for a Claymore in this regard. Part of actually landing a piercing blow through an armor plate is to get your center of gravity close to the intended striking point. A blow far-off from your center of gravity, particularly a cutting strike, will usually not penetrate an armored plate. It's all about leverage. So you have to step into that blow. Either that or you have to get them with blunt trauma, a weak gap in armor or hacking off enough armor.

My point is that she doesn't make this critical blow because she's exceptionally strong or fast. She just maneuvers herself into this position when a weakness is exposed. She can expose this weakness using her Yoki-reading. Barring that, she wins by pure swordsmanship and athleticism. I think that in the case of Dauf, she was also just a very good swordsman.

Basically, I think Galatea is a manipulative-psychologist type. She just empathizes with her enemy and sometimes understands their own weaknesses better than even her enemies do.

She would be at the greatest handicap around those Claymores with exceptional self-control and emotional stability, as their emotions are less likely to sway their actions (i.e. Ilena and possibly Miria). Likewise, she's probably disadvantaged to Claymores who typically fight while actively concentrating on keeping their Yoki completely suppressed (i.e. Pricilla, Theresa and Clare). She can still win in the latter case if she's the better athlete/swordswoman. Or if she were to go up against Clare, it would be a about who can read their opponent better, maintaining focus at suppressing Yoki and raw swordsmanship. I think she would simply lose to Theresa, as Theresa probably would surpass her for the majority of factors described thus far.

Also, actors are also capable of self-deception, such that physiological signs and cognitive processes of emotions can be faked. Basically, a Claymore who's used to being a good spy and used to living in disguise might have the kind of theatrical ability to deceive Galatea in turn, rather than having Galatea deceive her. Some parts of the mind can be pretty suggestible -- which explains some of alcohol's placebo effects and why hypnotism works.

Also I would like to add this.Her crack about regenerating brains was not meant to be taken serously. She was insulting Dauf, who is not nearly as intellegent as some of the other awakened. I doubt Riful for example has any trouble remembering things.

[Twisted Reality]

Eh, i don't want to sound too blunt now, but you've only read up to Volume 8? Doesn't that alone tell you something outright?..
A lot of information that i'm working with here is found in Volume 9 and ongoing till the very recent chapters.

No, there's nothing too complex with my explanations. Those abilities really are three separate types of feats. All three of them belong to the basic set of abilities that all Claymores share even to the slightest instance. It's just that Galatea is superior in every three of them. In the case of manipulation, she can even gain control of the body of others, which is very rare, to say the least.

And no, i do not think that what she does is youki-reading but sensing. I've already pinpointed the differences before, look it up if you want to.

Yes, she is a very empathic character by nature, working with the emotions and mentality of her opponents. My image of her is that of a highly intelligent strategist, no doubt. Still, her youki manipulation is not as subtle as it may seem, as it is an intrusive feat, that may just as well be used in an aggressive way to make ends work up.
Any good warrior would want to exploit the feats they have, and in case of Galatea, she doesn't even have to dirty her hands for the most part. But if she's pressed into an open fight, then she has the means to deliver a major spanking^^




Yes, Clare may seem calm and somewhat indifferent on the outside but deep inside she's as stirred up as one can be. Of course, that's all because of those traumatic events in the past. She is an able warrior. She didn't start out as such and had to work her ass off to reach the heights that she is capable of now.
She is not a natural born superhero. Far from it, she is one of those hard-working people who take everything they can get to reach their goals.
It's just that her emotions usually get the better of her when she's confronted with strong enemies or she sees a prospect to reach her ultimate goal, the destruction of Priscilla.

As for the rest, yes, youki sensing may allow her to "see" such things and she can work with it, no doubt.



She does a whole lot more than just psychological tricks, mind you. That's just her first line of offense to gain the upper hand.
That won't work all the time, which is exactly when she'll muster her "big guns", her afore mentioned other abilities.



For all intents and purposes, she manipulates youki inside her opponents bodies to gain control of them. It doesn't work that well with stronger opponents. She may use it to gain control over, let's say, the jaw or a hand, to move them the way she wants for a short amount of time, long enough to exploit the opening.



It's good enough to work with, when you know how she does use it in actuality. It's not direct mindcontrol, it's youki control. She aligns her youki with that of the enemy, and then directs it inside the opponents body to achieve a bodily reaction. When you're being remote controlled, this will have repercussions on your mind and morale. You will get agitated and may experience fear, confusion and the like, which will automatically influence the flow of the fight. Galatea doesn't need to outright control her opponents minds, it comes with the flow.



Oh really? Well then, you may want to to take a look at Volume 9 and see for yourself.
Yes, stat-burst is something that any Claymore is capable of, it comes with the release of youki. Galateas stat-burst for proportionally increasing physical-strength
is said to be the strongest, as i outlined before.




Yes. Very good swordfighter.




Well ,she's not infallible of course. And there are bound to be people who are better than her in many aspects. Still, she's a very accomplished warrior and she is very intelligent. Together with her special abilities she's an opponent to be reckoned with.

I missed the part of your post that listed the volumes you were drawing your source material from. Anyway that last "weakness" idea just came across to me as a novel foil to Galatea, assuming all her powers *did* hinge on her readings. And there's a believable character in there somewhere when you consider the how Clare reveals the that Claymores receive acting lessons and perhaps the occasional undercover mission. (Raki: The seductive smile of a prostitute?! *very much agitated*)

Hmm...I'm thinking Ilena (Irene?) will be coming back. Somehow I don't think that she's dead since her supposed execution happened off-screen. She's unusual considering how long they've dragged out her existence, whereas they've just brain-skewered Noel and Helen rather explicitly. Somehow I think there's still more you can do with her character concept.

Now Clare could be sensing her death throes through her "gift" arm, but I think there's a distinct possibility Ilena may have "half-Awakened." Ilena seemed to recognize that reattaching her left hand should have caused Clare to put her well past her threshold for Awakening. Yet there she is.

Seems like the next logical evolution in Ilena's powers would be to go half-Awakened. She's had plenty of training with one "awakened" arm without putting herself past her limit. Her major limitations is that she doesn't have a monstrous amount of Yoki (chi) to work with, as even pre-Awakened Pricilla and Theresa exceeded her quite easily.

So then the next question would be if she has anything she wants to accomplish before dying? Or did Clare make her realize that a part of her could not simply "count her blessings" and "run away?"

Of course, she could simply be dead but why not at least give us a good ol' *slash* *blood gush*? Less dramatic ambiguity please.

[Archmagination2002]

SimplyEd I was reading the Awakening part on page 3 and I think you forgot to mention something. There actually seems to be 2 way to become Awakened. The 1st is the most common one.. going over 80%.(You did a good job explaining it)

The second seems to be more rare, but it is also more insidious. I would call it the Black Card(after the Org's solution to it).. its when the human side(mind) starts getting influenced by the Yoma side. It starts out as not a huge problem, but slowly and insidiously the Yoma side starts influencing the human side.. if the Claymore has a strong will than the problem can be held off for years.. maybe even centuries, but eventually the Yoma side will win.

I wouldn't be suprised if it started out as the main reason why there are no Claymores allowed to live outside the Organization(I dont count Raphaela.. I think that was Rubals doing... he had some plan for her) they don't want more Awakened. Exspecially if the hints hold true that Claymores grow stronger with age.. imagine a high ranked Claymore awakening after 40 years or more.. Abysal Strength.

[SimplyEd]

Good point Archmagination2002!

Yes, as you rightly guessed, that form of Awakening, does indeed relate to a slowly progressing eroding of willpower.

Sadly, that's one of the more tragic events in the life of a Claymore, since they gradually loose control over time. The reasons for that phenomenon should mostly lie in a form of "weak character", a mind that is easy to influence and deteriorate.

There are many types of people living in our modern societies for example, who are mysteriously melancholic or outright self-destructive by nature. Most of the time, this sort of behaviour is related to problems with their surroundings, social situation, feelings of inferiority and the like.

Sometimes, people just go bonkers without a given reason because of matters that are not so easily to discern. They may experience times of disturbed spirituality, a sense of restlessness because changes in their body chemistry, diseases of body and mind, and so on.

In the case of Elena, for example, she was deeply disturbed by herself overusing her own youki at some point. She felt that her youma side was taking over.
It could have been that all of that was only an illusion. That she told to and convinced herself that her youma side would eventually reign over her human side, because of the horrible experience of overstepping, her boundaries.

Maybe it could have been possible to stabilize her mentality if she had more people to relay these feelings to. She was seriously in need of consolation, but, as it seems, that's not of a concern for the Org.

Still, it's easy to guess that Elena was not cut out for being a Claymore, on a mental note. That's not her fault, because she had no say in becoming one.

As i see it, Black Cards are mostly instances of failure of every single related party. It's a tragedy that could have very well been prevented beforehand.
Claymores are trained to become loners, in essence. For them to knit close ties to others and keeping that company around, is not something the Org deems desireable. And that's a great mistake, imho.

Thanks again for pointing it out, it's very much appreciated^^

[SimplyEd]

Ho Ho Ho..look at that..it's SantaEd bringing you all a bag of Claymore goodness..during summer and yet another sleepless night. The joy!

This time, i'll delve much deeper into the later japanese volumes to bring you all a summary for the one and only Flora, and her trademark move the Windcutter.


Hmmm, assuming that some of you have read my little discourse for Irenes Quicksword, then you basically know about the general outline of Floras ability already, for those moves are essentially the same in principle and desired effect.

Flora seems to take pride in the fact that she's considered to be the Claymore with the fastest attack speed of her generation. And that's exactly what her ability is all about: extreme velocity and precision.

Even though Quicksword and Windcutter are essentially of the same kind, the actual execution and preparation are somewhat different.

Floras goal is to achieve maximum speed for a set of interlocking motions: the drawing of her sword, the slashing(s) and the sheathing.
Her attack pattern is usually accompanied by currents of wind around herself and the area of effect, hence the nickname.

Just like Quicksword, the whole attacking motion is so fast, a normal human eye, or those of most Claymores, will not be able to follow, let alone register any sort of movement at all, except for the gusts of wind.
Youki-readers or those of a superior and focused mindset may be able to see through the Windcutter, however.

In the case of Quicksword, the user has to store large amounts of youki into her swordarm, which will then be relegated into a violent "exlosion" of mostly controlled slashing strikes. Quicksword is somewhat more arbitrary on the whole picture, however, its final velocity tops that of Windcutter, which in turn wins in the fields of precision and induced force.

Windcutter defines a more controlled motion of minute detail and extreme initial acceleration.

For its preparation, Flora takes on a certain drawing stance. She will then commence the attack with less induced youki then what is needed for the execution of Quicksword.

It seems like Windcutter relies on a short, controlled burst of youki for acceleration and then relies mainly on the capabilities of the user. As such, it is a more economic type of attack and much more suited for stealth and subtlety (which includes a desired cut down on youki usage).

As such, even though both attacks may be of the same kind, their field of usage is somewhat different and there are times when one of them may be better suited to make ends meet.

Windcutter is an ability that may be aquired as we can see via Clare, who has inherited this ability from a, much too early, deceased Flora. Still, the usual restriction may be applied as you see fit.

The summary:

Pros: essentially the same as those of Quicksword but Windcutter wins in terms of precision, induced force and economy of youki usage; probably not as prone to youki manipulation as Quicksword, because it relies more on the users fighting capabilities;suitable for stealth/subtlety; may be used to bring up some fresh air^^

Cons: not as fast as Quicksword; even though a single slash of Windcutter is more powerful than that of Quicksword, the damage potential of the latter may be greater on the whole; needs superior focus and concentration for the actual fighting part (as opposed to Quickswords focus on youki control); may be countered by youki-readers especially.

[Anh_Minh]

We don't know about Flora's, but Clare's Windcutter doesn't use youki.

[GundamZZ]

My take on Flora and Irene

Flora's technique is like riding bike, and Irene's technique is powered by motor. It's different becacuse Flora uses youki to build up her body strength and skill. It's less likely to be track by "heat seeking radar". Claymore's fight is fast, and it cannot be caught by the glimpse of the naked eyes. Without using youking sensing, two claymores will hack each other to death. Thus, Flora's youki can still sense by Clare.

[Anh_Minh]

Notice that Clare totally failed to dodge Flora's strikes. It might have been because she was releasing her own youki, or because her body just couldn't keep up with Flora's speed, but she still failed. So there's no reason to claim she could sense Flora's youki.

[SimplyEd]

Yeah, pretty much what GundamZZ said, i think. A short burst of youki in the beginning for accelaration and right after that everything is dependant on the users fighting skill.

Yes, Windcutter can be pulled of without much or almost no youki usage at all, but there's no telling how potent that version actually is. Plus, if you watch closely at Floras and Clares sparring match, especially when they go "all out", you can see that this time around, Floras facial expression distort somewhat because she uses Windcutter at 100%..or so she says.

Youki has to be used to reach a speed that could hope to match up with Quicksword. Otherwise there'd be no way, storywise, to convince me that Windcutter could pull all of that off without any youki at all. Even if it's vastly sublime and kept in close check, a good youki-reader will notice the flow inside her opponents body. Remember, Clare had the hardest time to adapt to the circumstance that during the 7 years she had to train for less youki usage. Windcutter is much more economic in that direction and it is much more dependant on conventional fighting than Quicksword, but a small part of youki has to be used, even if it's so little to be almost untraceable.

Yes, Clare has trouble keeping up, but then again, Clare is supposed to suck physically against other Claymores, plus the Windcutter is almost as fast as Quicksword. Her youki-reading is pretty much the sole reason she's still living, because, of what i have stablished, it gives her a boost in reaction time. She's a good fighter,yes, but that was hard for her actually reach. She even admits to her shortcomings regularly when she's up against her own.

[Anh_Minh]

I believe the Windcutter is the Claymore variant of Iaido, or of that... thingy... made famous by Kenshin where the sword is fastest unsheathed, and that speed is used to strike. (How that works in the Claymore setup is beyond me, but then I don't even get how they unsheath at all in the first place).

A stronger, faster arm will of course make the sword even faster, which is why we see Flora release even before she launches the attack, but it doesn't precisely rely on youki the way the Quicksword does, and neither is it a short burst of it.

And when the Lucky 7 say they don't release, I believe it's because they really don't. No cheating. No "small, almost undetectable usage". They just trained their bodies (which, even without releasing, are superhuman) to achieve strength and speed without youki to support them.

[SimplyEd]

I believe the Windcutter is the Claymore variant of Iaido, or of that... thingy... made famous by Kenshin where the sword is fastest unsheathed, and that speed is used to strike. (How that works in the Claymore setup is beyond me, but then I don't even get how they unsheath at all in the first place).

A stronger, faster arm will of course make the sword even faster, which is why we see Flora release even before she launches the attack, but it doesn't precisely rely on youki the way the Quicksword does, and neither is it a short burst of it.

And when the Lucky 7 say they don't release, I believe it's because they really don't. No cheating. No "small, almost undetectable usage". They just trained their bodies (which, even without releasing, are superhuman) to achieve strength and speed without youki to support them.


About unsheathing: Yeah^^ That's a mystery in itself :D

About the non-youki statement: I know, i would really like to believe that myself, but i can't see how most of their special abilities can even be pulled of without the slightest degree of youki. Of course, it can be trained that way, because they wanted to keep a low profile, but in actual combat situation, where their live is at stake, i think they'll use youki again.

Yes, their bodies are already more powerful than a humans, but stuff like Mirias Mirage and Clares Windcutter and even Helens Drill..i still think they need a certain amount of youki beforehand. And i think that's perfectly okay. Up in the north, they wanted to suppress their youki as best as possible, but such small amounts wouldn't really have given them away immediatly. For the most part, the Org thought of them as dead.
Apart from that, we do know that all of them initially had more or less problems with keeping their youki usage down, especially Clare. They had to adapt to the new situation over 7 long years.

In a nutshell, yes, many abilities can be pulled off without or without much usage of youki, but for them to be most effective in mortal combat, well, that's where they'll have to give up on stealth and draw the most out of their feats.
At some point, there will will be a time where a Claymore can no longer survive on their conventional fighting prowess alone, not even Teresa. They will have to utilize their youki for support. Or else they might fall victim to an enemy that is going all out on them.

[Fenrir_valindri]

I disagree with the comment about the Quick-Sword being suspectable to Yoki manipulation, from what we have seen (volume 10) It counter's Yoki manipulation by using large erratic bursts of Yoki to deliver the blows..

Deneve also mentioned that Miria is able to control more precise movements, this leads me to believe that this ability is no longer a "burst" ability, and is now more like a natural speed enchantment.
I also agree Anh Minh, when they say no Yoki usage, I believe they are telling the truth.
Remember that Raphaela cannot even be detected by Yoki sensing specialists like Clare and Galatea.
I am almost positive that the 7 Ghosts have taken the idea of Yoki-stealth from her.
I am also quite sure Miria would not chance the organization finding out about them at all, so Yoki usage is out of the question.

As for how? Claymores already have abilities far above humans, it is quite possible, with their partially awakened status, that they have simply learned how to get their bodies to perform the desired techniques with their higher natural abilities.

Deneve's speech about Clare and Miria's newfound techniques make it sound like they simply specialized their training and enchanced their natural abilities in the desired direction.


Well that is all for now, might come back later and add more comments later.

[Anh_Minh]

I'm not saying they've sworn off youki usage regardless of circumstances. I'm saying they haven't yet been in a situation where they needed to use it.

I also think that if they use it, even a little, they'll need some time to again suppress it as effectively as before, to the point where a Claymore standing right next to them won't sense them. That's why they'll be reluctant to use it unless absolutely necessary. It's not just immediate detection that's a concern, but how to recover their stealth afterward.


I see youki as a short term, instantaneous stimulant. But even without it, Miria's fast and by training herself, she increased that "natural" speed to almost mirage-like levels. It's the same for Irene's arm's power and Helen's flexibility. Youki enhances those natural characteristics, but it's not needed.

I disagree with the comment about the Quick-Sword being suspectable to Yoki manipulation, from what we have seen (volume 10) It counter's Yoki manipulation by using large erratic bursts of Yoki to deliver the blows..

I don't believe that's it. What Clare did was disrupt his concentration by continuously hitting him. It'd be like trying to play a complex melody while someone's pricking you with needles.

[SimplyEd]

I disagree with the comment about the Quick-Sword being suspectable to Yoki manipulation, from what we have seen (volume 10) It counter's Yoki manipulation by using large erratic bursts of Yoki to deliver the blows..

Deneve also mentioned that Miria is able to control more precise movements, this leads me to believe that this ability is no longer a "burst" ability, and is now more like a natural speed enchantment.
I also agree Anh Minh, when they say no Yoki usage, I believe they are telling the truth.
Remember that Raphaela cannot even be detected by Yoki sensing specialists like Clare and Galatea.
I am almost positive that the 7 Ghosts have taken the idea of Yoki-stealth from her.
I am also quite sure Miria would not chance the organization finding out about them at all, so Yoki usage is out of the question.

As for how? Claymores already have abilities far above humans, it is quite possible, with their partially awakened status, that they have simply learned how to get their bodies to perform the desired techniques with their higher natural abilities.

Deneve's speech about Clare and Miria's newfound techniques make it sound like they simply specialized their training and enchanced their natural abilities in the desired direction.


Well that is all for now, might come back later and add more comments later.



For the first: Quicksword may be susceptible to youki manipulation before the stored up youki is released and relegated into an "explosion" of strikes.
Even then, the most erratic part of the whole ability would be not so much the release of the stored up youki, but the slashing part. Getting those violent strikes under control need a whole lot of concentration, coupled with the focus on their youki inside the swordarm.


For the second: On a whole, yes. The mirage part (the accelaration and the following reaching of top speed) would still be reliant on youki somewhat.
As i said, i can't even imagine how they could pull off some abilities without the slightest usage of youki. Their physique is better than that of a human, but there are things that probably can't be done without youki.

Of course, what Miria did was training her base speed and precision in movement, no doubt about that.


About the last part: As i said, for training purposes, almost all abilities can be trained to enhance their base stats. They had 7 long years to figure something out where their abilities can be trained that way. But for actual mortal combat, there's no way in hell they'd put their money on non-youki execution of their abilities.

An Abyssal will not go easy on them because they want to keep their youki output low. Stealth and economy of resources is not something that's suited for a life or death situation.
Keeping a low profile up in the north is one thing but now they are back on the battlefield. It's no holds barred now, if they'd want to survive what lies in front of them. None of their enemies will go easy on them, that's the sad truth.

If they can help it, then it's better to keep stealth up as long as possible, beyond that it would be foolish.

[Goofus Maximus]

I think myself, that when they say no youki useage, they mean literally that, and the techniques come from their youma-enhanced flesh alone. Yoki can be used as a "power-up" to youma-enhanced flesh, but the flesh alone is capable of superhuman feats without the power-up.

The 7 samurai... er, ninjas... (closer), ex-Claymores, spent 7 years training themselves to use their youma-enhanced flesh to the limit of their natural ability, without using youki energy at all, because using it even a little bit gives them a detectable "aura". The Windcutter gains much of it's force and speed from using the sheath (if that circular metal thing with two slots acting as a blade holder, can really be called a sheath) in the same way Rachel's partner, Ray, uses the ground to give speed and power to her sword swing. It takes concentration to control the swing, but doesn't really require youki to power up the youma-enhanced arm swinging the blade.

Ditto for Miria's new mirage technique. She can't move as far with unnatural speed as she can when powering up with youki, but she gains in accuracy, control, and repeateability what she loses in total overall "streakiness"

Don't underestimate the Youma flesh infused bodies of Claymores, even without Youki flowing through it. Remember how Clare, no. 47, moved while totally suppressing her youki to read the male Awakened's attacks.

Edit: You know, thinking of that, I wonder if Clare might be able to learn how to do a version of Miria's mirage technique?

[Archmagination2002]

Goofus Maximus I am very sure that Clare knows how to pull of a version of the Mirage.. afterall she's seen Miria use it before. I think with a little training Clare would be able to use the pre-timeskip version of it.. she wouldn't be as fast and she wouldn't be able to use it as much as Miria. Which is is the reason why she hasn't trained herself to use it(yet).. its too ineffective and inefficent for her to learn right now.

Simple Ed.. its not possible that the 7 have used Yoki for the last couple of years. Otherwise Riful, the other Awakened and the Organizations Claymores would have been able to sense them. They only use the power of their youma enhanced flesh for their techniques. Flora most likely used Yoki for her Windcutter, but Clare's Windcutter doesn't. I wouldn't be surprised if Clare's is slower and less powerful than Flora, but thats the trade off for not using Yoki. I wouldn't be surprised if Helen's Drill sword is less powerful than Jeans either.. Jeans max was 21 or 22 rotations, but to achieve it she had to use Yoki. Helens max is most likely between 5-10 rotations since she can't use Yoki.

[SimplyEd]

Actually no ,i don't think the Org would have found them if they had kept their youki even at low levels. Like i said, the Org thought of them as dead, and it's not like they sent "rescue" or recon parties every week.
Plus, they have good youki-sensors among themselves, they would have and have known about Claymores or Awakened or Youma that have entered their territory up there.
Apart from that, no, even the Abyssals wouldn't have found them that way because their youki-sensing is definitely not better than that of Galatea.
Speaking of Galatea, we know what happened to her, she quit her role as "Eye".

I think you're putting too much value on the detectability of youki. Most Claymores are bad at youki-sensing, plus they are very limited in effective range. People like Galatea, who can sense such stuff over long distances are rare.
And i find it very hard to believe that the Org hasn't got anything better to do than put Claymores on post for scrying after supposedly dead Claymores 24/7.

The Lucky7 even admitted that their exile in the north was somewhat of the best place on the continent to get "lost" and almost never found out. The north is desolate, especially after the events from 7 years ago. Many Awakened left for other parts of the continent along with Isley. Riful was roaming around the west and south.


Apart from all that, yes, most of their abilities may be trained without using youki to increase base stats, i already admitted to that. And just so i don't have to repeat myself in yet another post, their base stat is that of a Half-Awakened for all those who have undergone that change, and "Pure Claymore" for those that haven't. Half-Awakened have definite advantages to their usage of abilities, that's not even in question. Still, they can increase their base stats for as much as they want, their attacks will need the support of youki for harder enemies later on.

The point is, they trained that stuff because they needed a way to lower their own reliance on youki (and of course to keep a low profile). By enhancing their basic fighting, they can take on a whole lot of minor or medium level enemies without tapping into their special power, but for harder fights, this is almost useless, they will have to use their youki again. As i said, Awakened or Abyssals or other Claymores will go all out on them and conventional foghting won't get them far at that point. Their "new abilities" are rather enhancements, not all new super techniques that will help them against the big ones.

Their abilities became more versatile and advantageous in certain fields of usage, but they are not completely free from their dependeance on youki, should they want to take on harder enemies. The "New Mirage" or "New Windcutter" are all well and good but they are not suitable for major fights, that's all i'm saying.

Hence my reasoning, that they are not independant from youki.

[Anh_Minh]

But all it'd have taken would be for the new Eye to be up north for one reason or other, and they'd have been found. Not even necessarily as far north as Pieta. Precisely because the north is deserted. The Eye would have gone "Claymores up north? And I don't know any of them... If it was an Awakened Hunt, I'd at least know their leader. Oh, well, I'll just make a report the next time I see my contact."

And the Lucky 7 might not even have known they were seen. Tabatha's probably good, but she's not the Eye of the Organisation. All it'd have taken is once in those seven years.

[SimplyEd]

Hmm, yes. I think our Lucky7 should count themselves very lucky that there was no "Eye" roaming around the north.
On that note, i'd surely like to have a write-up on the maximum range of sensing for various former "Eyes". If i think of Galatea as the most potent "Eye" in history, so that all other were/are somewhat more limited, then i'd think they'd still have to get pretty close to Pieta to get precise readings.

[Anh_Minh]

There is no reason to think Galatea is the best there ever was. For all we know, the new eye could be better in some or all respects. (Then again, if she had better range, they probably would have used her instead of Miata.)
She doesn't need a reading as precise as Galatea had in the Slashers. She just needs to know there are Claymores up north. And that they're unknown could be helpful, but isn't necessary.

[Seska]

You know, this thread is full of Spoiler tags.... To read the flow, they get useless :) (Hide some Spoilers...)

[SimplyEd]

I agree that there is no reason. It's all a big "if".
It doesn't matter that much anyway because nothing of that sort actually happened.
I'm still hoping for a bit more lore on "Eyes" but i'm not too expectant that Yagi-sensei will offer much on that topic in the future.
Apart from that, i'd like much more lore on the old generations of Claymores for reference material, but in the end that will probably be left in the shadows.


As for my next topic in line, i'd like to take a look at Helen, hopefully without "stretching" the facts too much. ;)


Okay, i'm somewhat sorry to say this, but Helen's summary will be rather short.

Helens primary special ability concerns all of her limbs, especially their flexibility.
Helen is able to stretch her extremities over quite a long distance to initiate a long-range attack or pin-down/bind an enemy.

This feat of stretching is something we already know from regular Youmas, Awakened and Abyssals. It seems like Helen was always able to use this ability but ever since she counts among the few Half-Awakened warriors we know, she's able to pull it off more readily, with much less induced youki involved.

Helens clothing around the area of her extremities is different from that of other Claymores, to support her unique ability. After all, it would be kind of a hassle to always carry lots of spare clothes around^^

Since her arms and legs are that much more flexible than those of other Claymores, this may give her a knack in executing complicated sword strokes from various angles and other moves that would be virtually impossible to set into motion otherwise.
Still, while she is a capable warrior, she doesn't really excel in swordfighting it would seem. Which is why it's probably better for her to exploit openings in her opponents attack pattern from afar or putting more effort into surprise attacks in general.

Also, if she's faced with a very quick and nimble enemy, she might put her limbs into severe danger, should that enemy see through her tactics.

Recently, Helen has inherited Jeans Drill attack, which seems to suit her unique physique quite well. With this, she has an attack with extreme damage potential, combined with her heightened range. Which turns her into a serious threat for any unsuspecting enemy she might face, with the exception of the most potent enemies, of course.
You may want to look up my spoiler box for Jean, to get a more refined impression about the Drill.

The summary:

Pros: extreme attacking range (probably the greatest of all Claymores); flexibility allows for uncanny attack patterns; may pin-down or trip-over an unsuspecting enemy; great for gaining the upper hand via surprise; may fetch snacks and other goodies over a distance^^

Cons: endangered by quick and nimble enemies; may leave the rest of her body at a disadvantage; very dependant on regular fighting capabilities.

[Archmagination2002]

SimplyEd.. thanks for clearing up what you meant. I agree that they would have to start using there Yoki again if they face strong opponets due to the limitations with their non-Yoki using techniques.

Thing is though its already been proven that their non-Yoki techniques are very strong.. they slaughtered 'Average Strength' Awakened Ones without even breaking a sweat, they escaped from Riful easily(I know.. its different from a battle, but its still very impressive) and having seen Clare and Miria fight without using Yoki that it would take someone close to Abyssal power/potential to make them use Yoki in battle.. quite frankly that power level is few and far between.

Only Alicia, Beth, Miyata have been shown to have that power potential for the Organization. Riful, Isley, Priscilla and maybe Duph are the only Awakened shown and are still alive that have that power. I would also say that Galatea could have that power(if she has been training).. If Rapheala is still alive then she would too.

There could be others but they just haven't been shown yet(or they are dead)

[stormy001_M1A2]

I do wonder though, with yoma implants, means they don't have PMS or periods? Just wondering. A Claymore operator with PMS will be scary, to yoma or humans.

[Anh_Minh]

Depends on exactly when they stop aging, I think. They either never have PMS, or, like Ophelia, they have PMS all the time.

[SimplyEd]

Thing is though its already been proven that their non-Yoki techniques are very strong.. they slaughtered 'Average Strength' Awakened Ones without even breaking a sweat, they escaped from Riful easily(I know.. its different from a battle, but its still very impressive) and having seen Clare and Miria fight without using Yoki that it would take someone close to Abyssal power/potential to make them use Yoki in battle.. quite frankly that power level is few and far between.


Yes, i admit it's quite easy to fall into the trap there.

The enhancements are definitely strong techniques themselves, no question. Yes, the Lucky7 are able to defeat average Awakened (which is what i'd put under a medium level foe by now, a hard foe being a strong Awakened, an Abyssal being impossible) and they managed to flee from Riful. The last part is important, because it accurately describes their real standing in terms of power.

They manage to escape, nothing more , nothing less. That is extraordinary if you consider what kind of being Riful actually is. It can however be argued in how far Riful was actually putting an effort into catching our heroines. Of course the story would have ended just there if she had caught them, but that's beside the point. She wasn't fired up enough to outright want to kill them just there.

The sheer amount of luck that was involved in this scene is outragous, i'm afraid.
If Riful had been slightly more motivated, she could have ended all of their miseries just there. If any of the 7 had messed up even in the slightest bit, it would have been over for them.
Not to get personal but people tend to take these extraordinary situations for granted, as if they were nothing or no big deal. That is not the case, not for Claymore.

The fight between Miria and Clare. Well, that was a fight on a conventional, non-youki level. It is impressive to see how far they got their base stats, and that's that.
That amount of capability will not get them anywhere near the potential of an Abyssal. Not even a strong Awakened or Rank 1 Claymore, i'm afraid.
Miria and Clare especially may be able to hold themselves against a higher ranking single-digit. Hold against, not win.
There is a serious overstatement concerning the Lucky7s might going around, i think.
Just look at those profoundly false assessments about how much Audrey and Raychel "suck", that they are weak and could be easily beaten by any of the 7.
Why do people come to such conclusions? Because they lost against Riful? Hello? We're talking about an Abyssal here, time to wake up already. :eyespin:

To make this whole post seem to make a bit more sense: Take the new abilities of our 7 heroines. Remember what they are and what their pupose is.
And now think about the fight against Rigardo, a very! strong Awakened.
And now you think about them using those abilities against Rigardo, who didn't even break a sweat against the more powerful youki supported versions of these abilities...Do people really believe they would have defeated Rigardo then?

Why did so many Clamores die at the whims of a handful of strong Awakened? Claymores who most definitely utilized their own youki and best attacks.

I'm not saying that the 7 are weak, far from it. They are much stronger than before, at base level and various other specialities. They are not, however, as strong as many people want them to be. They are not yet able to take on the real powers and even for those foes that they would be able to kill, they'd still have to put a lot of effort into it regardless.

[Tempest35]

*chuckles* was it just me who caught Miria's look when she felt Riful's power? That was not the look of someone who was thinking, "wow, they're strong, but we can take them," it was more of along the lines of "holy twin goddesses, THIS is an Abyssal!?"

Clare wasn't as 0.0 like the rest of the crew when they first sensed Riful but then again, Clare already knew her. Moreover, I think that aside from Clare, only Miria felt the true bulk of her power from their first position. When all four got to Ground Zero, then they could feel the full extent of the power she was hiding.

They know how powerful Riful is, but thanks to them hiding their youki so well, Riful doesn't know just how strong they are and that's a big enough advantage for now. Even if they could manage to take Riful down as they are now, they now know that Priscilla is far stronger than anything they have imagined.

I adore our Lucky Silver Eye Seven as much as the next Claytard but they are still operating under the element of surprise. Elite sniper teams never travel into valleys. ^^;

[stormy001_M1A2]

They either never have PMS, or, like Ophelia, they have PMS all the time.

Which I thought it was, because she seems to be on perpetual anger and easy to be provoked. Her actions reminded of certain females that I knew IRL, how they unleashed their anger when they having PMS. It struck me as very similar, a sense of deja vu.

[cajunman380]

My quarter thoughts.....


The enhancements are definitely strong techniques themselves, no question. Yes, the Lucky7 are able to defeat average Awakened (which is what i'd put under a medium level foe by now, a hard foe being a strong Awakened, an Abyssal being impossible) and they managed to flee from Riful. The last part is important, because it accurately describes their real standing in terms of power.

DO we know exactly how strong the awakened they fought were? Those guys were no pushovers especially considering they fought in a group. This is also thats not counting whether they had to fight other awakened beings during the 7 year stretch. To that end we dont have enough information to make such a statement. The fact that they fled from ritful is actually impressive especially considering that they had cargo with them and ritful was nable to get a single one of them.



They manage to escape, nothing more , nothing less. That is extraordinary if you consider what kind of being Riful actually is. It can however be argued in how far Riful was actually putting an effort into catching our heroines. Of course the story would have ended just there if she had caught them, but that's beside the point. She wasn't fired up enough to outright want to kill them just there.

They managed to escape after getting some claymores out of ritfuls grasp and they fled with them in tow, plus one of them was able to pump info out of ritful and still escape despite the fact that Ritful was actually trying to get them to the point that she yelled out in frustration (an emption we saw when she encountered priscilla). Plus Riful couldnt sense them thus she couldnt get an accurate grasp of their power.

The sheer amount of luck that was involved in this scene is outragous, i'm afraid.
If Riful had been slightly more motivated, she could have ended all of their miseries just there. If any of the 7 had messed up even in the slightest bit, it would have been over for them.
Not to get personal but people tend to take these extraordinary situations for granted, as if they were nothing or no big deal. That is not the case, not for Claymore.

you mean the 4. keep in mind the fab 4s objective was just to get their claymore comerads out of there. They didnt want to fight ritful because there was no point at the time. Plus they didnt want to be known to the org. there were simply too many factors that were unknown to them for them to risk a fight. (mirias especially notorious for this). The fact is they were able to excecute the operation with extroardinary precision showing how much their teamwork has improved and clare was even more impressive because she was able to get what she wanted out of riful and still escape. It is a big deal because seven years ago there was no way clare would hav ebeen able to escape rifuls grasp. she was ridiculously lucky back the,n,. Keep in mind riful is looking for recurouits, it does not serve her best interest to kill potential candidates especially those who can read yoma eneryg. Riful is kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place so i cant really say she can afford to play around.


The fight between Miria and Clare. Well, that was a fight on a conventional, non-youki level. It is impressive to see how far they got their base stats, and that's that.
That amount of capability will not get them anywhere near the potential of an Abyssal. Not even a strong Awakened or Rank 1 Claymore, i'm afraid.
Miria and Clare especially may be able to hold themselves against a higher ranking single-digit. Hold against, not win.
There is a serious overstatement concerning the Lucky7s might going around, i think.
Just look at those profoundly false assessments about how much Audrey and Raychel "suck", that they are weak and could be easily beaten by any of the 7.
Why do people come to such conclusions? Because they lost against Riful? Hello? We're talking about an Abyssal here, time to wake up already.

and how do you know they wouldnt be able to win? Clare did pretty well hoding her own agains ophellia considering that any other foe would be pretty much dead and that was seven years ago. They had seven eyars to hone their skills to the point that they can move about undetected. They are also half awakened which means their power output is already greater than a normal claymore would generate. We havent seen all the skills these people have learned but so far their arsenal is pretty serious. Most of them have learned single digit moves . they can supress their youki, theyre half awakened, they have a ton of battle expereince and they can fight as a team or move as one. Who knows what else they have.

As for aurey and rachel. People think they are weake because its easy to compare their pperformance against riful as opposed to clare and galatea. Galatea and clare immediately recognized the threat that riful possesed and even though they felt her enourmous power they didt freeze in their tracks or pee in their pants which is wnat audrey the new number theree did. So far ive only seen one type of attack from each of them and it aint really that impressive. Heck if they are so powerful why did audrey get knocked out by a kick from deneve. At which point she could have instantly been killed. Its not that theya re not strong but theyre inexpereinced and too cocky for their own good. Seriously, its an abyssal one even if you couldnt detect her true power one wuld have to wonder. Oh crap its one of the top tiers we goota be careful. If it wasnt for the fab four then these two would be lunch meat,a nd even afterwards the fab 4 could hav handled them anyway they wished



To make this whole post seem to make a bit more sense: Take the new abilities of our 7 heroines. Remember what they are and what their pupose is.
And now think about the fight against Rigardo, a very! strong Awakened.
And now you think about them using those abilities against Rigardo, who didn't even break a sweat against the more powerful youki supported versions of these abilities...Do people really believe they would have defeated Rigardo then?


he didnt break a sweat becase the owners of said abilities were dead before they could even use them. We never saw him hav eto take those attacks. Rigardes had speed as his weapon he was so fast he killed those claymores before they knew what hit them. As they are now they could have put up a much better fight, a big part of rigardos strategy was sensing the auras of the claymores and knowing which were the strong ones. now imagine him facing the fab 4. how would he know which was the strongest? he wouldnt be ale to sense any of them at all. plus the fac tthey fight as a cohesive unit works worse in his favor and also the fact they have attacks tha tcomplement each other well. plus clare could always awaken her limbs and deal out massive punishment.



Why did so many Clamores die at the whims of a handful of strong Awakened? Claymores who most definitely utilized their own youki and best attacks.



cant hit what you cant see. He owned them with speed and power that all. He aint no 2 for nothing

I'm not saying that the 7 are weak, far from it. They are much stronger than before, at base level and various other specialities. They are not, however, as strong as many people want them to be. They are not yet able to take on the real powers and even for those foes that they would be able to kill, they'd still have to put a lot of effort into it regardless.

why wouldnt they be. they survived through hell and they spent seven years in the cold wastelands training their butts off. They hav edefinately gotten far stronger but you also have to consider that they need to be cautious. the org outnumbers them still and they dont know the full extent of their poweres. they dont know islesy power or if there are any new awalened players in town. they need to asses the scenario before they work on a strategy (hence clare and mirias interrogation. Information is only half the battle. but make no mistake they are now a force to be reckon with, not enough to beat all but enough to be noticed as a major threat.

[Negativedark]

I did an in depth analysis of Rigard in the Biology thread. The thing that made him so very deadly was his speed. Dauf, for example has greater strength, and armor. But with Rigard, Veronica was killed before she even knew what was happening, and he easily cut up Undine's arms because she was unable to move fast enougth to block. Jean was able to defend very breifly, but the moment she got distracted even a little, he got her. Flora, who was one of the fastest attackers present, didn't even react quickly enough to block him, and Miria was only able to keep up with him using her mirage to the fullest extent. The moment she started to slow, he started bieng able to hit her. Rigard was the second fastest charecter yet seen in the series. Speed can give a tremendous advantage, and he had it. Note the tide only turned when Claire's speed exceeded his.

[SimplyEd]

DO we know exactly how strong the awakened they fought were? Those guys were no pushovers especially considering they fought in a group. This is also thats not counting whether they had to fight other awakened beings during the 7 year stretch. To that end we dont have enough information to make such a statement. The fact that they fled from ritful is actually impressive especially considering that they had cargo with them and ritful was nable to get a single one of them.

Just to say this in advance: not a single one of these arguments has stirred up the slightest doubt in my set of arguments, for me.

Actually, we can deduct these thoughts by directly putting each of them in comparison. With the Abyssals on top and regular Youmas at the very end (except for humans, but they are no problem for anybody in this case).

The Fab4 and Clare especially have fought with Awakened several times. The Lucky 7 are now mostly able to duke it out with weaker or regular Awakened, they might still have to use their own youki to gain victory however.
Awakened will not simply grant them the opportunity to fight with their youki suppressed. They will go all out on them and regular fighting will probably not make them gain the upper hand. Stealth is not suited for open battle, at some point they will have to drop their camouflage eventually.

About Riful: As i said before, thankfully she wasn't all that motivated. Even a mouse may escape a non-commited cat every now and then. But if the cat really wants to catch the mouse, it will.
What the 7 had going for them was the element of surprise and a fair bit of luck, coupled with a much too curious Riful. There was no need for her to grant Clare that little talk they had. If she had been serious, she would have just ripped her apart just there.
The 7 had to take that gamble at escaping with additional "luggage" and they mangaged to get away with it. This time.

What's relevant for this topic, and the biology thread in this case, is that the 7 managed to train their base stats to, probably, maximum and have thus enhanced their mostly youki-based attacks to be used without the need to induce youki. This will only get them so far, especially against strong enemies, which they will probably be unable to beat at this point and then quite certainly only with support of their own youki. See my various posts on this matter.







They didnt want to fight ritful because there was no point at the time. Plus they didnt want to be known to the org. there were simply too many factors that were unknown to them for them to risk a fight. (mirias especially notorious for this).

No, they couldn't fight with Riful because they would have died. It's that simple.
If Riful would have been slightly more serious, there would have been no use for keeping a low profile from the Org, because she would have killed them then or worse.
Apart from that, they'll probably not be able to maintain their camouflage for much longer anyway. All of them know what they are going up against now, if being unknown was their primary concern they could have stayed up in the north.
Clare especially wants to bring the fight to the enemy, she has wasted enough time on dwelling in the shadows.

The fact is they were able to excecute the operation with extroardinary precision showing how much their teamwork has improved and clare was even more impressive because she was able to get what she wanted out of riful and still escape. It is a big deal because seven years ago there was no way clare would hav ebeen able to escape rifuls grasp. she was ridiculously lucky back the,n,. Keep in mind riful is looking for recurouits, it does not serve her best interest to kill potential candidates especially those who can read yoma eneryg. Riful is kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place so i cant really say she can afford to play around.

Well, think of it that way: if they hadn't escaped, the story would have ended.
Every single time a Claymore even manages to get away from an Abyssal is a moment of extremely lucky circumstances. Don't count on them being able to pull that off when an Abyssal is putting aside all the useless pleasantries and goes straight for the kill without the obligatory chatting time.
As such, yes, it is extraordinary for them to be still alive.
Rifuls goals are manyfold and thankfully she's rather laid back most of the time. Believe me, if she made up her mind to kill one of those nuisances then she would do so without remorse. And right now, she's not furios or desperate. She's plotting in her own pace, that's all.
The powers of the 7 are nothing compared to Riful. They can only hope to stay hidden or outright flee. That is their current situation.



and how do you know they wouldnt be able to win? Clare did pretty well hoding her own agains ophellia considering that any other foe would be pretty much dead and that was seven years ago. They had seven eyars to hone their skills to the point that they can move about undetected. They are also half awakened which means their power output is already greater than a normal claymore would generate. We havent seen all the skills these people have learned but so far their arsenal is pretty serious. Most of them have learned single digit moves . they can supress their youki, theyre half awakened, they have a ton of battle expereince and they can fight as a team or move as one. Who knows what else they have.

See my comment on their abilities against Rigardo. Think of how they were able to beat him. Only by an almost complete awakeneing of Clare. Conventional fighting, keeping their own youki output low and the like will not help them against something like this. They have become stronger generally, at the base, but they are stil ldependant on youki for bigger feats than merely staying hidden or fleeing from impossible enemies.

About Clare and Ophelia: Clare was losing actually. When Ophelia finally realized her own transformation, she was subconsciously helping Clare to defeat herself.
Remember? "Huh? Why am i helping that girl?" and later "Fight them in my place" (quoted from memory, not the exact wording)

About Half-Awakening: No, their power output has nothing to do with that. They have become more tough and strong physically and may pull off certain abilities much more readily, even effectivly. Youki output is still counting from 0-100% at which point they'll reach a completely new type of measurement altogether.
Awakened marks a status of a Claymore at 100% youki output. Awakened may increase the amount of youki they generate beyond those 100% Claymore capabilities. Not to speak of Abyssals, who reach completely new heights in this regard.

Them learning "single-digit moves" doesn't make them single-digits, you know? Miria(who is a single-digit) and Clare may take on single-digits without getting defeated outright. There's no guaranteed victory stored for them however. There's no telling for the rest of the 7.
Yes, they can fight effectivly as a team. And? that is also no guarantee for anything.
Remember the last time a team of mostly experienced warriors with supreme abilities tried to put a Rank 1 to rest?




As for aurey and rachel. People think they are weake because its easy to compare their pperformance against riful as opposed to clare and galatea.


Oh? You mean that both instances would have been an absolute catastrophe if it wasn't for lucky circumstances they got away with their lives? Now that's a worthy basis for commenting on how much one party sucks and another doesn't.
None of the afore mentioned Claymores even stays a chance against Riful, so how is this a way to determine how much they'd stay chances among themselves?
As i said, give Riful a little more seriousnes and we won't even have anything left to compare.
Put Audrey and Raychel up against any of the 7 in a fight under normal conditions and you'll see who's stronger. For the record, i'm not that sure that any of the 7 would actually win then.



he didnt break a sweat becase the owners of said abilities were dead before they could even use them. We never saw him hav eto take those attacks.

And? So he finished them off before they could even initialize their attacks. Oh boy, he sure is a weak one, huh? Our Lucky 7 would have a stroll in the park with him now, right? Because he's all about speed... and he would have definitely died when the others had a chance to use their attacks..
To bad we didn't get to see his weakness, because he killed all those experienced warriors off in an instant.

When was it that Rigardo kicked the bucket? When Clare reached the boundaries to a complete awakening. For all that matters, her potential as an Awakened may just as well rival that of an Abyssal. Even if it doesn't she was only able to do that with her own youki reaching 100% output. Get the drift?



why wouldnt they be. they survived through hell and they spent seven years in the cold wastelands training their butts off. They hav edefinately gotten far stronger but you also have to consider that they need to be cautious. the org outnumbers them still and they dont know the full extent of their poweres. they dont know islesy power or if there are any new awalened players in town. they need to asses the scenario before they work on a strategy (hence clare and mirias interrogation. Information is only half the battle. but make no mistake they are now a force to be reckon with, not enough to beat all but enough to be noticed as a major threat.


Yeah they managed a lot and they are no push-overs, no doubt about that. The same holds true for almost everything they are up against.
People tend to see only the improvements in our heroines and forget that there are established forces out there that didn't get any weaker in the mean time.

Yet again about them taking on single-digits: If you really want to think so, then so be it. Funny thing is that not even Miria herself is convinced that they'd necessarily stand victorious over a higher single-digit in close combat. Let alone stronger Awakened or Abyssals for that matter.

The 7 are strong. They have accomplished a lot and they still have a long way before them and many enemies to best in mortal combat. They are not yet able to duke it out with many of the stronger opponents, not without the usage of youki and not without some more definite advantages.
Right now, they are still playing it safe as best as they can.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Not sure what other people where trying to argue, but I agree with you on the fact they would have been forced to use Yoki if fighting an opponent of Ligardes level, although Miria did comment that Clare with her current level of skill would not be outdone by even high single digits. So my guess is at least Miria and Clare can hold their own against #3-5 without Yoki usage, although obviously opponents like Abyssals, strong awakened, #1-2, and Miata would probably force them to use Yoki to stand a chance, or just survive at all.

My original argument was simply that several of the new techniques that they have developed do not require Yoki usage at all, as using a Yoki based technique would make them give out an aura like a regular warrior, (Raphaela's comment about Irene.) Notice that Riful did not even notice Miria until she was literally on top of her.

I also believe Riful was serious about stopping at least Clare from escaping, Clare simply had gained a level of skill where she possessed good chance of escaping Riful. Clare herself basically stated this.
Riful seemed pretty pissed that Clare got away, not the reaction of a person who was not even trying. :eyebrow:

[SimplyEd]

Not sure what other people where trying to argue, but I agree with you on the fact they would have been forced to use Yoki if fighting an opponent of Ligardes level, although Miria did comment that Clare with her current level of skill would not be outdone by even high single digits. So my guess is at least Miria and Clare can hold their own against #3-5 without Yoki usage, although obviously opponents like Abyssals, strong awakened, #1-2, and Miata would probably force them to use Yoki to stand a chance, or just survive at all.

My original argument was simply that several of the new techniques that they have developed do not require Yoki usage at all, as using a Yoki based technique would make them give out an aura like a regular warrior, (Raphaela's comment about Irene.) Notice that Riful did not even notice Miria until she was literally on top of her.

I also believe Riful was serious about stopping at least Clare from escaping, Clare simply had gained a level of skill where she possessed good chance of escaping Riful. Clare herself basically stated this.
Riful seemed pretty pissed that Clare got away, not the reaction of a person who was not even trying. :eyebrow:


Yup, i agree. A very extraordinary feat. I'm really glad that all worked out rather well.

As for Riful: She certainly was displeased that all her future "friends" got away, no doubt. I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of those she stumbles upon next.
I think it's safe to assume that Clare will be faced with a much more motivated Riful the next time..if she holds a grudge for longer than she picks up a new interest, that is.
Should she indeed come across Galatea in some way, thats where she'll do everything she can to get a hold of her, i would think.

[silix]

Aside from the fact that as a single digit - rather, as a team leader - Nina should IMHO avoid mocking or insulting the low ranked in the team, if not be the one to stop others from doing so ( she cant hold a candle to Miria in this respect)... but i think she has a very interesting technique Nina' s Shadow Chaser Technique
After her first attack against an opponent, her sword continues to "follow him until his aura is extinguished".
She seems to "istruct" her arm on the yoki type/ "frequency" to follow, then lets it loose, and to let loose her body too in order to follow and second the arm's will.. this is made apparent from the fact she fights with her eyes closed, and making some unnatural movements, as if she isn't really controlling it

At this point, the interesting aspect is, what kind of yoki-based claymore "specialty" could make this possibile - we've seen most other techniques require emanating a certain amount of yoki, focusing it by means of will power and using it to enhance the effect of voluntary movements ( shaking / moving the arm, run, ..., that remain an originally intentional movement, although yoki makes it faster , more powerful, unforeseeable but somewhat less precise and tiring)
But the Shadow Chaser could be an entirely different thing: yoki reading or powering alone, do not seem sufficient to make a limb (though yoki - focused) move against another yoki source in an autonomous manner.

Then, i think the technique may originate from a variation of yoki reading (better, "tuning" her own yoki to the opponent's one 's "wavelength") and of focusing ( at the extent of letting a part of her body perform another skill on its own ), and, maybe, from a sort of reciprocical attraction force (akin to magnetism) that is activated in the presence of two yoki amounts both at a "critical density" AND one tuned to on the wavelength of the other

pro: the arm automatically chases the opponent without the arm's owner having to follow its (the opponent's) movements and aim each attack; the opponent cannot evade forever ( it's up to its endurance);

cons: not notably fast (probably won by any of Clare's, Ophelia's or Flora's techniques); susceptible to yoki manipulation tricks like Galatea's ( since the chasing arms is not controlled by the owner's will, it can be influenced with possibly more chances of success than Duff's hesitant punches); high chance of leaving the claymore's guard wide open ( thus requiring a combined attack with defense support from comrades); the opponent's morale may not be influencednow, i may be completely mistaken so i' d appreciate someone's technical POV :)

[SimplyEd]

@silix


Very nice summary! Thumbs up ;)

About the origin: Hmm, a more basic version of "reading" seems possible, seeing that reading involves sensing and a bodily reaction. Still, i'm not so sure wether i'd put it into the same category. Personally, i'd rather put it into youki-sensing and manipulation domain. Youki focusing sounds good at that^^

Nina signifies a certain youki trace and then initiates an automated process which gears her sword and subsequently her body towards that source. This is an active feat initially which then turns into an automated structure. She has to mark the object and make sure her sword/body will follow that source.

Her body sword/body will follow that trace relentlessly at the cost of her own safety.
"Reading" is mostly passive and is somewhat of an inherent safety device, to keep the users body from harm. The read youki inside the opponents body and the own reaction are interlocked.
There is no real reaction involved for Ninas move. It's like a dumbfire rocket with a makeshift heat-sensor attached. When it's launched, it will follow the enemy regardless of safety or any countermeasures from the enemy side.

On a more personal note: I thought it was suicidal :D

[Anh_Minh]

My POV is that it's bloody useless and worse. Any situation where it's actually an asset would have to be pretty contrived. Honestly, I can't think of one.

I mean, seriously, what are you afraid of? Losing sight of the Awakened? Why can't you just keep your eyes open and follow the enemy around like everyone else? How is the Shadow Chaser superior to that?

Clare's Quicksword, now, that was immediately useful. It gave her a huge boost in the speed of her strikes, and she could use her sensing to direct the arm somewhat. The Shadow Chaser makes it look like the author was running out of ideas for special attacks and didn't want to waste any good one on a throw away character.

And it just makes you more vulnerable to boot. The Awakened doesn't need to dodge forever. For one thing, the Claymore will probably run out of youki before it does. For another, if it's tired of it, it can just kill her. Problem solved.

[SimplyEd]

Okay, for the next summary in line, i'd like to have an interview with one of our more serious and straight-to-the-point characters, Deneve. Which is perfect since i had the pleasure to give you a roundup on her best buddy Helen the last time.
Let's see what sorts of secrets i may be able to ground up for her.


Deneve is, as we all know, a defensive type and one of the few Half-Awakened to boot. As such, her most remarkable ability is centered around her own bodily well-being and fortification: greater regeneration.

Regeneration is a feat that all Claymores share to a certain amount, depending on their styles disposition towards aggression or fortification.

Defensive types are usually much more adept at regenerating wounded body parts than their offensive type counterparts. In the case of Deneve, she is not only able to regenerate wounds at an astounding rate, but also to outright regrow severed limbs and even heal many vital parts, that would cause death for any other Claymore, should they get skewered. Still, a direct hit to the head should prove to be fatal.

There are , of course, no guarantees granted for a successful regeneration as this ability draws heavily on Deneves own youki resources. As such, the more damage she takes, the harder it gets for her to be succesful and the more likely it gets for her to cross over her boundaries.

Still, greater regeneration grants her a higher tolerance level to physical abuse than you'd expect, and she's more likely to keep standing than most other Claymores.

Deneves fighting style was always much more delicate and focused on finesse rather than pure power. Lately, she took up the fallen Undines Claymore as a memento and has subsequently adopted a two-weapon fighting style. This fits her former disposition quite well, since there's a whole lot of finesse and focus required to effectivly use two weapons at once. Plus, there is also an increase in defense that she could draw from the second sword.

Together with her regeneration, she is now a good swordfighter with incredible resiliance to physical abuse and with a bright, strategic mindset.
As such, she excels mostly in supporting/combined attack roles.

The summary:

Pros: incredible tolerance level to wounding; may survive attacks that would prove fatal for others; great as a support character or in roles where she deliberately takes the brunt of an enemies attack

Cons: regeneration tolls heavily on own youki resources; inherent danger of crossing the boundaries and awaken; as a support character she should leave the main agressive force to other offensive types

[Tempest35]

I think that strategiclly speaking - Miria is a superb general. She knows how to divide up her forces and place strageties ahead of the fight when she knows what's coming.

But the shining mind on the battlefield is Deneve - who reminds me of an all star captain who likes where they are. She can assess situations on the fly and come up with counters on the fly like in the Northern Campaign against the Youki Manipulator when she saved not only Undine but prevented Flora from issuing a command to rush in and help Undine.

Coupled with Clare's potential in intel-gathering [minute (as in 'tiny') youki reading], insane possibilities in battle with either Miria or Deneve.

"Generals are measured by how many of the enemy are killed; captains are measured by how many of their men they bring back."


This probably has nothing to do with actual biology...but I thought it should be at least alluded to.

[NoSanninWa]

My POV is that it's bloody useless and worse. Any situation where it's actually an asset would have to be pretty contrived. Honestly, I can't think of one.

I mean, seriously, what are you afraid of? Losing sight of the Awakened? Why can't you just keep your eyes open and follow the enemy around like everyone else? How is the Shadow Chaser superior to that?


The Shadow Chaser is an excellent skill for fighting beyond your level. If the opponent is so fast that you cannot follow them with your eyes it would be a life saver. For instance it is useful against opponents like Phantom Miria who can escape your strike with quick burst of speed. As soon as her speed burst wears off you hit her.

Obviously though, this technique is a way of coping. There is however a more interesting thing to note about it. This technique becomes more powerful when you add it to another art. Let's say for instance that you learn the Quicksword technique. If you add Shadow Chaser you have the improved Quicksword technique that Clare invented.

That's right, Clare learned how to make her Quicksword home in on the youki of her opponent when she was fighting Dauf. That's her own verison of the Shadow Chaser. I imagine that would be a good technique to add on to almost any fighting art to improve accuracy.

[SimplyEd]

That's right, Clare learned how to make her Quicksword home in on the youki of her opponent when she was fighting Dauf. That's her own verison of the Shadow Chaser. I imagine that would be a good technique to add on to almost any fighting art to improve accuracy.

Hmm, an interesting idea. Yes, i agree that the combination of Quicksword and reading was very effective. Possibly one of the best combos to date.

Now it remains to see in how far Shadow Chaser can be aquired by other Claymores. Or if it's even learnable at all. It could be that it's a Nina only ability, for whatever reason.
Should others be able to learn it, they would have to think up some improvements beforehand, especially in the reaction department. The automated portion of the attack leaves too many openings, so they's have to add a "breaker" that can initiate a safety mode or an outright shutdown if there's an iminent threat by countermeasures.

[pushpaka]

Oy, sorry to break up all the technique posts. I don't know if it's been covered elsewhere in this thread, but isn't it strange how barefooted all the Claymores are?

They wear metal sollerets, which if I recall aren't the most comfortable thing at the best of time. But if I remember right, those who wore them at least wore a cotton outercovering to keep things from getting too pinchy.

Even a soft-skinned weakling like Clarice seems to go barefoot before putting them on. The female Abyssals also seem to have a thing for going barefoot, only one of the big 3 I've seen with any footwear was Isley.

As I said sorry for the OT (well at least this still relates to biology), but it was kinda strange to see Clarice fighting barefooted and that's what kinda got the ball rolling

[GundamZZ]

For Claymore to be dressed, there's no reason other than act courteous in front of their clients.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barefoot

I always wonder if there's elf in the show. It could be the aftereffect of mutation.

[Bikerider]

If you look at Riful as a opportunity Ambush type hunter then you can understand what goes on in the recent chapters with her. Even with Clare's fir5st encounter with her. She doesn't attack or keep up an attack when she feels there's little profit in it. It's the same for when she found Isley. She could have taken on Pricilla. She didn't feel it had any benefit for her. I think of her being the lazy cat sitting by the mouse hole waiting for lunch to come to her.

[Anh_Minh]

The Shadow Chaser is an excellent skill for fighting beyond your level. If the opponent is so fast that you cannot follow them with your eyes it would be a life saver. For instance it is useful against opponents like Phantom Miria who can escape your strike with quick burst of speed. As soon as her speed burst wears off you hit her.

Obviously though, this technique is a way of coping. There is however a more interesting thing to note about it. This technique becomes more powerful when you add it to another art. Let's say for instance that you learn the Quicksword technique. If you add Shadow Chaser you have the improved Quicksword technique that Clare invented.

That's right, Clare learned how to make her Quicksword home in on the youki of her opponent when she was fighting Dauf. That's her own verison of the Shadow Chaser. I imagine that would be a good technique to add on to almost any fighting art to improve accuracy.
I just don't see it. Even if you can't see them anymore, you can still sense them. That's all the Shadow Chaser does, and any Claymore should be able to do that against an Awakened. I suppose it shortens your reaction time a bit, but I still can't say I'm impressed.

For example, against an Awakened, what's to keep them from taking a hit to slow down the sword, grabbing it with one hand, and killing Nina with the other?

And even against Miria? One burst of speed, she's behind Nina, who immediately turns and strike, Miria escapes with a second burst of speed, a bit surprised, third burst, she's behind Nina again, who again turns to strike, but this time Miria's ready and lops off her hand. Oops.

I agree that combined with another technique which has an... aiming problem, it can be extremely useful. But by itself? It's not immediately decisive and makes it so you only react to what your opponent's doing. It's pretty bad, and as seen, it's even worse when there are several enemies.

[Negativedark]

Oy, sorry to break up all the technique posts. I don't know if it's been covered elsewhere in this thread, but isn't it strange how barefooted all the Claymores are?

They wear metal sollerets, which if I recall aren't the most comfortable thing at the best of time. But if I remember right, those who wore them at least wore a cotton outercovering to keep things from getting too pinchy.

Even a soft-skinned weakling like Clarice seems to go barefoot before putting them on. The female Abyssals also seem to have a thing for going barefoot, only one of the big 3 I've seen with any footwear was Isley.

As I said sorry for the OT (well at least this still relates to biology), but it was kinda strange to see Clarice fighting barefooted and that's what kinda got the ball rolling
Well...I don't know about Claymores, but I can make a guess about the Awakened, and their taste in clothing. If your an awakened bieng, are you really going to bother picking out a nice outfit you really like knowing that if anything happens your just going to rip it to shreds if you transform? It's not like you'll always have time to take off your clothes and neatly fold them up somewhere.

[SimplyEd]

Well then, time for the next summary. This time i'll aim for Raphaela and her vast arsenal of delivering eternal sleep. I hope that people won't start poking their eyes out over it ;)


As you probably should know, Raphaela is the sister of Generation 76s Rank 1 Luciera, who turned into an Abyssal no less after a tragically mishappened experiment on Soul Link.

This Soul Link seems to be one of the special abilities of Raphaela and we can see a continuation of this project with a successfully initiated remote controlled Awakening performed by the dark twins, Alicia and Beth of Generation 78/79.

As it would seem, Soul Link is a very volatile ability, as it requires enormous amounts of control over youki, youki manipulation, a superior willpower and self-awareness and a matching set of "fitting souls".

The first choice to use sisters was a failure, as Luciera went berserk because Raphaela was unable to keep the link stable enough. Her failure cost her her left eye and subsequently cost her sister her humanity. A burden which haunted her until she was able to rectify these wrongs by breaking Lucieras back after a rather touching reunion scene.

As i pointed out, Soul Link should be stationed to the youki manipulation domain. The user has to remain perfectly focused, keeping her own youki in check, projecting her own mind into the body of the recipient and effectivly taking control over that body in stead of the original owner. The self of the original owner is not erased during this process, but rather subdued, sent into a dormant state (or maybe semi-dormant, so that the invading mind will support the original one).
Obviously, the cooperation of the recipient is required to gain maximum effect out of this ability.

It appears that Soul Link would be vastly harder to pull off if those two selves weren't matching that well or if the recipients mind would struggle against the rather forceful invasion of an "alien" mind, meaning that success would be much more foreseeable when both parties were at least mutually willing and blood related.

The user becomes a sort of puppet player, constantly keeping the link as stable as possible, watching her own youki output not to go overlimit and at the same time having to watch out for the remote controlled body not to get out of hand, while watching this bodies resources as well.

The amount of stress on the users body should be enormous, to say the least. She has to manage large amounts of sensory experiences, energy flows and of course the body of an Awakened, even an Abyssal. These kinds of overwhelming stimulations can only be processed by the most composed, mindstrong individuals.

Obviously, the sensation was too much for Raphaela, even though she is, for all intents and purposes, equally strong as Luciera and therefore Rank 1 material. A Claymore of exceptional prowess.

The dark twins seem to be mentally altered, lacking much of a defining self and basic emotions. For the most parts, they are more like machines, doing exactly what they were programmed for. Apart from that, since they are identical twins, their souls have a higher compatibility rate, it would seem. They are a perfect match.

It is unclear wether Soul Link or a related derivative can be used offensivly, to gain control over an enemies body. Galateas supreme youki manipulation has such an effect, although she "merely" takes over control of an enemies youki flow and subsequently parts of their bodies that way. She does not project her own self into the body of an enemy.

Because of what i've established before, about the usage of Soul Link, i'd guess that it could work against weaker opponents of a weak mind and only limited against stronger ones. Since Raphaela is essentially one of the strongest, if not the strongest Claymore still living today, i'd guess that using it against weak foes would be pointless and the risks against an even foe would be too high.
Therefore, it would probably not be very suitable as an attack at all.

Raphaelas other remarkable ability would be that of greater youki suppression and camouflage, an aspect of youki manipulation, her forte.

As a quasi former Rank 1, it would be plausible that Raphaelas true youki potential is quite gigantic, compared to others. Ever since she was sent into "retirement" she did her best to keep a low profile, eradicating almost every trace of her vast youki powers, so that she could travel the lands undetected. Only gifted youki-readers/sensors (in this case Teresa) would have been able to even sense a tiny bit of youki left in her body.

This ability is also shared by former Claymore Priscilla, who has now assumed the mantle of the most powerful being alive. But it is also something that can be trained to any other Claymore with enough effort. The aptitude is quite different however.

In essence, this ability is not only essential for stealth and subtlety, but also for keeping youki output in check, especially if the respective owner carries large amounts of it in her body.

There is no sort of evidence that suppression and camouflage have a negative effect on its potence. Meaning that this ability will only keep the output low and mask its existance.

Apart from these abilities, it would seem that Raphaela is also a highly skilled conventional fighter. Her essentially being Rank 1 material would suggest that she can easily be counted among the greatest (if not the greatest, which is what i believe) still alive right now.


Further apart from that, it remains to be seen wether she still has other special abilities that we don't know of yet.


Officially she's recognized as deceased by the Org, but that seems unlikely as there is no sort of proof for that statement.

Ever since she had the "pleasure" to strike her own sister down (a remarkable feat, even though Luciera was weakened at that time) she could have made up where her true allegiances lie.

After all, she was never treated very well by the Org, and it's quite possible for her to be very angered over what the Org was plotting recently by taking up the Soul Link experiment once again.
Her own experiences with these experiments lead to the most tragic events in her life after all. This remains pure speculation however, though her return should be quite spectacular indeed.


The summary:

Pros: if successful, the Soul Link offers a horrible w.o.m.d. to whoever is in charge; youki suppression and camouflage offer stealth and subtlety; youki manipultion offer a greater control of the bodies own youki in general

Cons: Soul Link needs too many matches and capabilities on the users part; not effective as an offensive attack; susceptible to an enemies youki manipulation; youki-readers/sensors may see through youki suppression.

[Anh_Minh]

OK, I get that Theresa was generation 77. Are generations numbers mentioned for anyone else?

[SimplyEd]

OK, I get that Theresa was generation 77. Are generations numbers mentioned for anyone else?



Well, the twins were also the big cheese for Clares generation 78. Since that was mostly eradicated, and there were quite a few replacements stationed, i'd guess that we could speak of a generation 79 already. A generation doesn't have to be completely exchanged to get a higher number i'd guess.

[Anh_Minh]

Ed: I've answered that in the World of Claymore thread, since the topic fits better there.

The gist of it is that a "class" has nothing to do with the group of 47 that's active at any given time.

[SimplyEd]

Ed: I've answered that in the World of Claymore thread, since the topic fits better there.

The gist of it is that a "class" has nothing to do with the group of 47 that's active at any given time.

Yes, your explanations make a lot of sense^^

Hmm, then what exactly would warrant the generation/class change? Like i said, it's certainly not a complete exchange of active units.

[Anh_Minh]

Maybe they just sort girls according to their arrival time. All the girls who come to them in a given year are put in the same class, and they start the Claymorisation process. Or maybe they're sorted by age, but considering the age differences between "finished products", I consider that less likely.

And they only change the 47 bit by bit, as the Claymores "naturally" expire.

Of course, after the northern campaign, they had to activate a lot of them at one time, but that sort of event is exceptional. (In fact, there are indications they started the activating before the end of the campaign. Almost as soon as they sent the 24 north. The bastards.)

[SimplyEd]

So, once they start to introduce trainees of a higher generation into the old generation, the number of the old generation will increase accordingly?
This can be relevant for the bio thread as well, since it is part of their life-style.

[Anh_Minh]

What do you mean?
I already explained I think there are lots of generations among the 47. From Claymores who've been on the job for ten years or more, to total newbs. Lots of newbs, with a high turnover rate.

[SimplyEd]

For Above: All is clear now^^


As for the next overview in line, i'm probably going to tackle Sophia or Noelle. I'll let that be decided by pure and untamed forces of whim. ;)

[Tempest35]

As I do live in a democratic country (...:heh:) I excercise my right to vote - NOELLE~SAAAAN!!!!

Also, is anyone keeping an eye out on Claymore's Wikipedia section? Feel free to update - it's needed.

[Archmagination2002]

SimplyEd.. the Raphaela post holds a lot more speculation in it than the average Claymore post that you do. Especially on the Soul Link part.. I am not sure if it would work the way you describe it. When I read most of your posts I usually think to myself that your logic is sound(I may not agree with some of them) but when I read this last post of yours the logic just doesn't seem to hold up for me.

[SimplyEd]

Don't forget to use spoiler boxes for non-anime future events.

SimplyEd.. the Raphaela post holds a lot more speculation in it than the average Claymore post that you do. Especially on the Soul Link part.. I am not sure if it would work the way you describe it. When I read most of your posts I usually think to myself that your logic is sound(I may not agree with some of them) but when I read this last post of yours the logic just doesn't seem to hold up for me.


Well, you are free to choose what you want to believe in. It would also have been good to actually state what exactly it was that bugged you so much. I can't exactly work with such a vague answer.

What would be the illogical part? What would be unfathomable speculation?
Raphaela doesn't give us readers a whole lot of information, and the very few bits and pieces we are offered have to be put into a speculative frame because there are too many unanswered processes.

My explanation is not the ultimate thruth, not unless proven to be so. Just tell me what's wrong and we'll see everything through from there on out.

[SimplyEd]

Well then, it's time for a new overview. This time i'll take a look at Noelle. That one was a bit hard to grasp..with all that jumping and prancing around. ;)


Noelles way of fighting was always marked by an obsessive usage of various acrobatic movements and swift and lethal strikes in mere seconds. The agility of her conventional fighting alone was superior to that of Teresa even, still, that wasn't enough to give her any sort of advantage during their clash. This speed and her whole attack pattern earned her her nickname "Hurricane" Noelle.

Which is, of course, not to say that she was particularly weak, far from it. She belonged among the top of the elite during Teresas active time.

During battle, she gives of an extremely energetic way of expressing herself. Battle seems to be a great deal of fun for her and she gains a, probably rather unhealthy, great amount of pleasure by ridiculing not only her enemies with her acrobatics, but also mocking her own allies. It seems like shes easy to get agitated about matters of ranking and how others perceive such a standing.

Now, her fighting style is not basically dependant on her own youki for most of the time. She's a superior conventional fighter and may reign supreme over most types of enemies without actually infusing youki into her attacks.
Should she be faced by such odds, then she'll most likely use "stat burst", which comes naturally with the release of youki. In Noelles case, i thinks it's somewhat save to assume that she mainly uses two types of stat-burst.

First, she'll increase her already magnificent agility and nimbleness, which will be accompanied with a significant increase in velocity.
Second, she may reinforce her physical strength to pack a serious amount of damage to her attacks.
Both of which may fall under the category of greater specialized stat-burst, as she's very partial about the way she likes to duke her fights out.

Of course, there is also the usual set of standard abilities that every Claymore is inherently capable of.


The summary:

Pros: Speed,agility and nimbleness are Noelles forte which should give her an advantage in almost any type of combat against most types of enemies; may have an effect on psyche and morale; not that susceptible to youki-manipulation for the most part

Cons: not so much about the attack pattern per se, but Noelles temperament may get the better of her; relies heavily on constitution and fighting prowess; the moment she starts using her own youki will give youki-readers an advantage; may get into trouble against equally strong or superior swordfighters.

[Xellos-_^]

Just found this why i browsing wiki.

Yoma = Hagfish familiy?

Hagfish - Hagfish enter both living and dead fish, feeding on the insides (polychaete (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polychaete) marine worms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_worm) are also prey). While having no ability to enter through skin, they will often enter through current openings such as the mouth, gills or anus. They tend to be quite common in their range, sometimes becoming a nuisance to fishermen by devouring the catch before it can be pulled to the surface. Not unlike leeches (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leech), they have a sluggish metabolism and can go months between feedings.

[SimplyEd]

Well, i don't trust Wikipedia any farther than i can throw it.
The japanese article on Claymore is actually quite good. Could be that there are less retards posting "speculations".
Thank goodness, there's a difference between speculation based on logic, and speculation based on idiocy.
I won't do anything on wikipedia, it's too prone to abuse.

[Xellos-_^]

Well, i don't trust Wikipedia any farther than i can throw it.
The japanese article on Claymore is actually quite good. Could be that there are less retards posting "speculations".
Thank goodness, there's a difference between speculation based on logic, and speculation based on idiocy.
I won't do anything on wikipedia, it's too prone to abuse.

It is not just wiki, that info was form a few other sources about hagfish.

[Archmagination2002]

Sorry SimplyEd.. I am having a hard time putting it into words As i pointed out, Soul Link should be stationed to the youki manipulation domain. The user has to remain perfectly focused, keeping her own youki in check, projecting her own mind into the body of the recipient and effectivly taking control over that body in stead of the original owner. The self of the original owner is not erased during this process, but rather subdued, sent into a dormant state (or maybe semi-dormant, so that the invading mind will support the original one). Obviously, the cooperation of the recipient is required to gain maximum effect out of this ability.

The part in bold is where it just feels wrong to me.. I will use Alicia and Bess as an example(it wont be a very good one since my I am having trouble formulating what I mean) Bess aligns her Yoki, Mind and Soul to Alicia's and then when Alicia Awakens supports Alicia's human mind. Bess is the support, not the controller. Bess helps control and shield Alicia from the side effects of Awakening(emotions, Yoki and the Yoma instincts) and she also acts as a lifeline for when Alicia returns.

I also think thats where Rapheala's Soul Link went wrong.. Luciera was older and I think she had a stronger mind(due to more experiences in life) so when Luciera awakened Rapheala wasn't able to supress the side effects and bring her back.. the lifeline snapped because Rapheala was to weak mentally and her sister was too strong mentally

[SimplyEd]

The part in bold is where it just feels wrong to me.. I will use Alicia and Bess as an example(it wont be a very good one since my I am having trouble formulating what I mean) Bess aligns her Yoki, Mind and Soul to Alicia's and then when Alicia Awakens supports Alicia's human mind. Bess is the support, not the controller. Bess helps control and shield Alicia from the side effects of Awakening(emotions, Yoki and the Yoma instincts) and she also acts as a lifeline for when Alicia returns.

I also think thats where Rapheala's Soul Link went wrong.. Luciera was older and I think she had a stronger mind(due to more experiences in life) so when Luciera awakened Rapheala wasn't able to supress the side effects and bring her back.. the lifeline snapped because Rapheala was to weak mentally and her sister was too strong mentally

Ah yes, that's much clearer. Hmm, let's see. During the process of Awakening, the mind of that individual will gradually erode, right? That's the most critical part of the whole process. The human mind is usually not strong enough to withstand all that stress, sensation, the raw power. It will be replaced by a new conscience, that of the Awakened.

So, when Alicia does her thing, she'll put herself open to that danger.She will be influenced the whole time from the very start of the transformation. The twins were conditioned to be.."selfless". That is to say, they were made so that their only mindframe, their whole existence would only be focused on fighting for the Org. There are no other cravings, no other feelings, only that what they were programmed for. They are mostly "hollow" when emotions are concerned. (Heightened resistance to the effects of Awakeneing)

In that way, both of their minds are essentially the same. They would not become rebellious or go out of control when Beth uses her Soul Link.

Yes, Soul Link is essentially connected to youki, hence why i put it under "youki manipulation". It's very similar, yet different from what Galatea does.
Beth transfers her mind (which is practically equal to that of Alicia) into the awakened body of her sister. Alicias own mind, which will be under the influence of the Awakening at that point, will be partially laid dormant by Beth and partially supported. That would depend in how far Alicias mind was already addled by the Awakening.

Alicias and Beths minds may be essentially equal, but they are still two individuals.
So heres the deal, while Alicias partial mind would be anchored to her awakened body directly, Beths mind is anchored to Alicias mind directly via induced youki.

So, in a sense, Beth becomes the operator for Alicias mind, and therefore, subsequently the operator for her body. She has to supervise everything concerning Alicias mind and the youki link between them. I think that Beth can keep Alicias mind from becoming affected further, but she cannot keep it conscious completely because the risk that the bodys youki would affect it with progressing time. I guess that Alicias mind is generally subdued (not completely perhaps) because it is the primary target for the surgeing youki flows.

Beths mind will not be affected like Alicias mind, because it is an "alien" mind that invaded the body superficially. Still, there's the stress of controlling all of these processes. This stress mainly lies with Beth. She is the Soul Link user and she has to carry the brunt of all that stress.
Alicia on the other hand, especially her own mind, will be supervised by Beth and therefore be kept from completely awaken. The main part of general control lies with Beth in this equation. Once her control shifts slightly away, it will be over for Alicia.

So, in a nutshell, they are virtually linked up, but Alicia has to be sudued in control while Beth takes over much control. (Again, much like Galatea does over youki manipulation).
Fighting involves two main parts: A conscious and an instinctive part. Which would be Beth and Alicia respectivly. Beth has to keep up the "conscious" part under all circumstances because it's what keeps fully Awakening in check.
If Alicia was still allowed full control, without getting inhibited in some way, the dangers would be to great, should something happen. Something like that what happened to Raphaela and Luciera.
Lucieras own mind was too independant, incompatible and rebelled against the mind of her sister, who then lost control. Raphaela could not subdue her sisters mind enough and she still had too much control over her own body, which then in return completely transformed Lucieras mind, which cut off the link completely.


Hmm, does this make any more sense now? :)

[Archmagination2002]

Yep you explained it in more clear logic.. thanks.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Noelle is "death from above" fighting style.

[SimplyEd]

Time for a new overview. This time, i'll take a look at none other than Sophia, the bane of stone pillars and buildings, and a true wonder of social mannerisms. ;)


At a first glance, you'd probably not be able to guestimate Sophias special ability because of her delicate features and her very polite attitude. Well, to be more precise, it's pretty hard to associate any of those highly potent feats of amazement to any of those beatiful, seemingly frail ladies beforehand.

In Sophias case, her "frailty" is just as made-up as her manners, because, among her peers, she's considered to be one of the strongest, if not the strongest, in regard to raw physical power.

She's able to deal an amazing amount of destruction with a single swing of her Claymore, and for the most part, her way of fighting does not seems especially refined. It's a very straight forward, cut-to-the-point way of dealing with potential enemies.

Her brute strength and way of fighting has earned her the nickname of Brawny/Muscular Sophia. Which would be something she's not that fond of when putting on her refined manners around others.
It would seem that she's usually failing in composure around Noelle, with whom she shares an ongoing ritual of rivalry.

Sophias strength is already superior to most other Claymores without the support of her own youki, still, it seems like she'll use it to increase her already frightening offensive potential even more, should she ever be faced with a challenging situation.
In that regard, it's safe to assume that she's mainly going for a greater specialized stat-burst for increasing physical strength even more.

Just like any other Claymore, she also posseses the standard set of youki abilities which will help her to overcome most foes in mere seconds.

The summary:

Pros: extreme strength will make it hard for the enemy to effectivly block any of Sophias attacks; her fighting style may have an impact on morale; she can virtually bypass any sort of cover the enemy might use by merely hacking through it with one swing

Cons: refined fighters who are more adept in finesse and speed may have a slight advantage, should they be able to keep away from Sophias sings

[Goofus Maximus]

Never mind. I was thinking of Undine...

[dutchman]

was corrected while posting sorry Goofus :(

[Tempest35]

*chuckles* have to add that for another one of Noelle's 'cons' - she seems very suseptable to kicks. :heh: Her overall strength is low but she makes up for it in terms of the velocity and speed of her attacks....*nod* That's why Teresa could block her with one arm and strike with le boot.

And while Sophia was much stronger, she and her sword speed was nowhere near as fast as Noelle's, causing Teresa to switch to speed tactics to catch her off guard and to cut her.

As you can see, I'm basing these counter tactics off our resident superb fighter - Teresa. :D

[SimplyEd]

*chuckles* have to add that for another one of Noelle's 'cons' - she seems very suseptable to kicks. :heh: Her overall strength is low but she makes up for it in terms of the velocity and speed of her attacks....*nod* That's why Teresa could block her with one arm and strike with le boot.

And while Sophia was much stronger, she and her sword speed was nowhere near as fast as Noelle's, causing Teresa to switch to speed tactics to catch her off guard and to cut her.

As you can see, I'm basing these counter tactics off our resident superb fighter - Teresa. :D

Hmm, i have to agree on that. She really is bad against an enemies footwork.... Think of what would have happened if Teresa went taekwondo on her..the horror!

Writing these technique overviews really made me appreciate the greatness that is Teresa... We still have Clare, and she's an angel, so that's okay.
Besides, i'm still rooting for Teresa: The Resurrection. "Alien" pulled it off.
A Teresa Awakening would also be quite interesting..ah, i have to wrap my mind around that possibility. Wonder if it's fit for this bio thread. Clare turning partially into Teresa...*nosebleed*

[Tempest35]

Raki: *nosebleed*
Fanboys: *nosebleed*

Fangirl (aka Miria): *nosebleed*

~*~

Fab 4 of Teresa, Ilena, Sophia, and Noelle along with current Fab 4 of Miria, Clare, Deneve and Helen = :D GOOD TIMES

~*~

Hmm, I think I have an idea on why Teresa was felled by Priscilla's 'sneak attack'. We've seen her fight against the top-tier of her time and she came out on top. Her Youkai reading ability has let her see and pick apart countless tactics and strageties. Coupled with Priscilla's surprisingly straightforward, in-your-face approach to things, Teresa honestly didn't see Priscilla's last attack coming. For one thing, the tactic was too simplistic. You keep looking for boulders, you're gonna trip up on the one pebble, which happens to be on the edge of a cliff, yaddayadda... It happens sometimes, a great and mighty tactician falls for something so rudimentary that he constanly rolls over in his grave muttereing 'how could have I been so stupid?!' after the fact.
That and Priscilla's youki was still surging and flucuating uncontrollably. Teresa still couldn't read it.

[SimplyEd]

Raki: *nosebleed*
Fanboys: *nosebleed*

Fangirl (aka Miria): *nosebleed*

~*~

Fab 4 of Teresa, Ilena, Sophia, and Noelle along with current Fab 4 of Miria, Clare, Deneve and Helen = :D GOOD TIMES

~*~

Hmm, I think I have an idea on why Teresa was felled by Priscilla's 'sneak attack'. We've seen her fight against the top-tier of her time and she came out on top. Her Youkai reading ability has let her see and pick apart countless tactics and strageties. Coupled with Priscilla's surprisingly straightforward, in-your-face approach to things, Teresa honestly didn't see Priscilla's last attack coming. For one thing, the tactic was too simplistic. You keep looking for boulders, you're gonna trip up on the one pebble, which happens to be on the edge of a cliff, yaddayadda... It happens sometimes, a great and mighty tactician falls for something so rudimentary that he constanly rolls over in his grave muttereing 'how could have I been so stupid?!' after the fact.
That and Priscilla's youki was still surging and flucuating uncontrollably. Teresa still couldn't read it.


Absolutely, Miria should be very pleased. Like:

Miria: *drool* Woah! I always knew that you had a special aura about you, but now i can actually see it bulging right out of you... *jumps Clare and censored*

Not to mention poor Yuma. She's already quite smitten with Clare. If she gets a a glimpse of THE Claymore Rank 1..well, she'd explode!
To bad about Jean. She'll always be with them in memory. *sniff*

About Priscilla: Yeah, that's also why i think that it was Priscillas conscience that led her final attack against Teresa, not her youma-side. This attack finally robbed her of her humanity and then *pop*.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Raki: *nosebleed*
Fanboys: *nosebleed*

Fangirl (aka Miria): *nosebleed*

~*~

Fab 4 of Teresa, Ilena, Sophia, and Noelle along with current Fab 4 of Miria, Clare, Deneve and Helen = :D GOOD TIMES

~*~

Hmm, I think I have an idea on why Teresa was felled by Priscilla's 'sneak attack'. We've seen her fight against the top-tier of her time and she came out on top. Her Youkai reading ability has let her see and pick apart countless tactics and strageties. Coupled with Priscilla's surprisingly straightforward, in-your-face approach to things, Teresa honestly didn't see Priscilla's last attack coming. For one thing, the tactic was too simplistic. You keep looking for boulders, you're gonna trip up on the one pebble, which happens to be on the edge of a cliff, yaddayadda... It happens sometimes, a great and mighty tactician falls for something so rudimentary that he constanly rolls over in his grave muttereing 'how could have I been so stupid?!' after the fact.
That and Priscilla's youki was still surging and flucuating uncontrollably. Teresa still couldn't read it.

Bear in mind too, Theresa's new found compassion blinded her to possibility that Priscillia will resort to such method to kill her. Irene/Ilena's comment that Theresa loss of edge as a warrior is based on this event.

It is same as real world. Soldiers who think too much and starts to empathize with their enemy tend to lose their aggressive and lethal edge. Theresa was defeated by psychology, not yoki reading blooper or swordmanship. It is what's in her mind that defeated her in the end. It is also her empathy for Priscillia desire to die as human to avoid Awakening undone her.

[SimplyEd]

The next overview will takes us further towards the recent japanese chapters. Having said that, i'll now take a shot at Audrey..which is quite dangerous, in regards to her special ability. :uhoh:


Audreys special ability is actually quite defensive in nature, but it can be turned into an offensive one should the need arise.

Her ability involves an enemy launching his/her own attack against Audrey, which she will then effectivly deflect or even directly send back towards the enemy.
She does not directly oppose this attack, but instead relinks all of its aggressive force any way she wishes. That way, her opponent may actually fall victim to his/her own powers.

This abilities nickname, which can outright cancel almost any opposing aggression against the user, would then be Gentle/Soft Sword.

This would, however, only apply to this very ability, since it's not inherently an offensive one. Audrey should still be able to deliver a major pounding with her conventional fighting, seeing that she's the current Rank 3 of the Org.
Apart from that, it looks like Gentle Sword does not rely overly much on Audreys own youki resources.

Her demeanor is that of an honourable, well-mannered warrior who'd rather fight with her defensive abilities before throwing her own delicate body into the fray. Which is also to support her apparantly overbearing vanity.

It would seem that Audrey wasn't very used to actually run into enemies that could ever hope to circumvent her own abilities, which is why she was practically paralyzed with shock when she realized how mighty Riful really was, when both she and her partner Raychel unfortunately were confronted by her.

The summary:

Pros: almost no need to launch attacks on ones own, as the enemies attacks will be redirected against him/her; may have an effect on morale; very good for combined attacks with other Claymores; may also be used to wear the enemy down or make him/her submit, should there be no reason for a kill

Cons: can potentially render the user a bit too confident in an asured victory; more powerful enemies may find ways to circumvent Gentle Sword without using outright aggression (psychological warfare); when Audrey switches from defense to offense, she may be outdone very swiftly by powerful foes; all of her abilities essentially rely on her own capabilities, which is why she may be worn down over time as well

[silix]

<cut>
Clare turning partially into Teresa...*nosebleed*
Weel... Clare's face is prettier, but Teresa's body was sexier (curvier in some specific spots) so...

Random viewer @ home : *nosebleed*

ah , there's one more thing about Sophia: she could hold another claymore on the point of her sword for some seconds without making a hitch - although in a very disadvantageous lever configuration, her 's wrist didnt bend and she was just taken by surprise, but i dont think Teresa had used "chi" to make herself as light as a feather...

such strength coud have been a pro (in a combined attack she could have provided the supporting "trampoline" to a comrade), but also a con, as we've seen it turning against herself allowing teresa to stab her from close
;)

[Insearchof]

Well, it's only natural that the most powerful Claymores are always the most dangerous AO's, e.g Riful, Isley and Luciela were all No. 1 in their respective generations. Which makes me wonder about Dark Alicia's supposedly Abyssal potential. I thought she was #1 because of her ability to awaken not because of raw power. I'm not sure but she is rumored to become Alicia of the East, occupying the power vacuum left by Luciela (this rumor is questionable though and might be fanfiction). What's the general opinion on this?

[SimplyEd]

Well, it's only natural that the most powerful Claymores are always the most dangerous AO's, e.g Riful, Isley and Luciela were all No. 1 in their respective generations. Which makes me wonder about Dark Alicia's supposedly Abyssal potential. I thought she was #1 because of her ability to awaken not because of raw power. I'm not sure but she is rumored to become Alicia of the East, occupying the power vacuum left by Luciela (this rumor is questionable though and might be fanfiction). What's the general opinion on this?


Just a little hint: You have to make sure that the spoiler-title is not a spoiler in itself^^

About Abyssals and Rank 1: The potential that a Rank 1 Claymore may become an Abyssal after Awakening is much higher than that of a more "regular" Claymore, yes. Still there are no guarantees.
Rank 1 are always insanly powerful warriors. Far more potent than any other Claymores of their generation and even others, with the exception of other Rank1 warriors or potential contenders for this Rank.

The problem is that Awakening is sort of a mixed bag. One can't always tell what's actually coming out of it in the end.
One can become a regular Awakened, which means a being that surpasses a Claymore at 100% youki output.
A powerful Awakened would be even stronger than that. It's abilities can easily top those of any regular Awakened.
Those highly potent beings are only surpassed by Abyssals, the strongest beings alive in the world of Claymore.
Priscilla on the other hand, even suprasses those boundaries, making her something..well, virtually omnipotent, from the view of others.

Up to now, all the known Abyssals were former Rank 1s or contenders. They are usually the ones with the greatest resources of youki.
Still, the final transformation is somewhat chaotic. A Rank 1 might come out as a strong Awakened, not an Abyssal however.

That's mostly because Rank 1 is peerless, as i stated before. They only face competition among themselves, which will also hold true for their "afterlife". Some Rank 1s are weaker than others, still all of them are virtually the strongest Claymores ever.

[Sordes Pilosus]

SimplyEd Ive read over all your posts in this thread now and find myself agreeing with most of your views. However there are a few places where ive stoped to wonder. I will explain it in the spoiler tag below:

The first point is related to Youki Supression. I agree that, well it should be obvius why. That the 7 Ghosts, the Fab 4 in particular will be using Youki in the future. Since the manga wont end without battles and conflicts between atlest Clare and Abyssal ones or Precilla. And fighting that high lvl of oponents DOES need Youki powered moves to stand a solid chanse. The real question here however is WHEN will they start using their powers again. Since its a bit of a unclear topic even after reading over the manga so far a few times regarding "How long does one not hafto use Youki before it becommes undetectable or are you able to switch rather rapidly ?" This question is a very important one in regards to their motives.

However that you state that in terms the Fab 4 are weak i cant find reason to belive at all. I will go in and explain further.

When they "Disapeared" their status was pretty much like this:
Claire: Quicksword user + Youki Reader
Deneve: Massive Regenerator or Tank if you will.
Helen: Posibiliy only Range fighter amoung claymores.
Miria: Exelent strategist and Mirage user. Rank 6 also tells alot.

Already at this state we are showed many things. Clare is already at this point being "pared" with several singel digits. Flora in particular as almost an equal. This means at this stage Claire could be counted probably atlest between rank 10-12 in terms of overall power in rankings. Miria herself is rank 6 and powered up quite a bit since the first awakening hunt we saw the fab 4 on. She doesent rival Raphela, Galatea or Ophilia probably at this point. But knowing that Ophilia, Galatea and Rapahela wont be oponents this time. Places her very high at a Claymore ranking at this point in time. Helen and Deneve are more support characters for Claire and Miria at this stage.

But we hafto consider now that of the new Generation of Claymores they will be mostly encountering most are "New" meaning those survivors has alot more experience/Training time. So old rankings must be looked upon rather weakly as 7 years of training does give alot of powerups. Since lets face it. They dident train for 7 years just to stay in the North. And i doubt Miria would be stupid to only prepare and train for this time period. She and Clare with always planing on moving south again would definatly aim for total powerups from before. But lets take a look at what we know of the Fab 4 so far:

Claire: Windcutter user, Quicksword user, Youki Reader
Deneve: Muscle(strenght ?) user, regenerator. Basicly frontline tank.
Helen: Longrange + Drillstrike
Miria: Upgraded Mirage + Old Mirage.

The overview is rather weak in terms of information so i will explain a bit further again. Starting with Helen. You mentioned that her drill would be weaker. But if we go back to Jean it would be more likly to asume that 21 is a limit based more on her arm's posibel twists. Helen quite frankly doesent have the same limitation AT ALL. With the posibel flexibility and lenght of her arm she could easily atlest get the same number and probably more. Compensating for mabybe lower Youki number with more rotations creating atlest a on par Drill. The differance is the flexibility to use the Drill. With Helen's flexibility and range. Her Drill is Superior to Jean's without a doubt. The fact it destroyed Riful's ribbon's when getting new nr3 is proff enough that there is no doubting its power.

Next is Deneve, we know not to much of her so far. We can only speculate but since she IS the claymore who is most superior in regeneration it could also mean she is superior when it comes to knowing the Claymore body best. Which means she using same type of move as Undine in terms of power should be very realistic. She was former nr 15 also. Not to far from nr 11 Undine, the differance was type of fighting. Which she would have plenty of time to change during 7 years.

Miria we know little of her increased offensive power other then she has a much more suitable mirage now. But not forgetting she can stil also use old one for more "Instant" speed for instance for a strike the combination can be quite deadly if she has for instance a new striking ability herself.

But the real monster here is Claire. I cant kinda belive its not been mentioned yet. But i belive we can now say the old Quicksword and Windcutter is now slow and less powerfull then what she now can perform. Think about this. Windcutter and Quicksword is VERY simular they build on the same prinsiples. We know also Claire is a VERY fast learner. Imagine Quicksword and Windcutter combined, and i think you have Claire's new combat move. As im also suspecting she is about to repay her debt to Galatea i wouldent be surprised if she gets thought a bit more on Youki reading and perhaps manipulation also. I belive now Claire could easily be in the "new order" rank 3. We have also seen her posibel power in awakened form so when she fights she is a highly dangerous oponent.

Based on these 4 changes already its easy to say that as a team. The fab 4 cover for each other very well. And all are on a very high level. The key element in all of this is however Youki supression. Can it be switched on and off rather fast or not ? Since the fact their Youki is supressed is the reason they got away rather easily from Riful. And in counter to your "If she was series" The fact that Riful's Awakened body has one big Con that you havent mentioned is what makes it easy. She kinda pointed it out herself to. "The sword couldent reach her" and her attacks is her Ribbons a long range attack. The combination of those 2 senstances tells why. She is depedant on sensing Youki to hit her targets. She is elevated rather high above the ground and in a open area it would be a good advantage. But in a forest like they where located its actualy a disadvantage when trying to capture as tree's etc gets in the way of your sight. And if you cant sense your targets its quite easy for them to get away. And if it wasent noticed by now. The relevance to this topic is the underestimation that has been placed on the groth of the fab 4 in particular. And the posibility of their new training can have in combination with their old traits. Which again offers quite interesting speculation in terms of How new skills would be and their pro's and con's again.

[Bikerider]

One thing to consider. If the 7 ghosts had been Claymores for only a short period of time, ie: less than 7 years, Then their youma suppressed state would be more of a natural state for them. Therefore, like Rafaela, fighting without using their Youma energies will be their easier style.

[Sordes Pilosus]

One thing to consider. If the 7 ghosts had been Claymores for only a short period of time, ie: less than 7 years, Then their youma suppressed state would be more of a natural state for them.Therefore, like Rafaela, fighting without using their Youma energies will be their easier style.

That Depends again on more. Rafaela had almost always supressed hers. So for her it was completly natural. However with the 7 Ghosts we know they have been practising. Whats important here isent that they have been supressing their powers. Whats important is how much has their "Base" Increased, and what technices have they learned in this time. Since all of these can be boosted further up by apliing Youki to it. Like a Windcutter with Youki energy is stronger and faster then one without, a Drill is more powerfull with youki then without etc. The real question is as i stated before how Youki supression works. We have gotten slightly contradicting information about it so far. From Teresa we learned it should be posibel to do it on the spot. And we learn kinda the same from Pricilla, i doubt she had hers supressed always and not released at all before being certified and the time line cant be far to long overall as she was stil in training. But with rafaela we get the information its a result of not using at all for a long period of time. So the answer to also alot of the 7 Ghost's battle power can be traced down to this. Will they be able to remain "Constant Stealthed", will they be able to "Switch at rapid rate" or is it a "Turn on again and it takes a long time to turn it off again". Which of these it is. Will have a great impact on this question.

[Anh_Minh]

I think a Claymore can, relatively quickly, lower her youki output to the point where other Claymores, who are bad at youki sensing and/or aren't actively looking for her, won't find her.

Suppressing it to the point where specialised youki sensors like Galatea, for example, won't find them, takes longer.

There's no reason to think Helen would perform Jean's special move better than Jean herself. There's a reason Jean had it as her special move, after all. Her arms were built for it.

And even if Helen could put more rotation in her arms (which we don't know), it could just mean that each rotation is less energetic than one of Jean's, precisely because Helen's arms are so flexible.

[Sordes Pilosus]

I think a Claymore can, relatively quickly, lower her youki output to the point where other Claymores, who are bad at youki sensing and/or aren't actively looking for her, won't find her.

Suppressing it to the point where specialised youki sensors like Galatea, for example, won't find them, takes longer.

There's no reason to think Helen would perform Jean's special move better than Jean herself. There's a reason Jean had it as her special move, after all. Her arms were built for it.

And even if Helen could put more rotation in her arms (which we don't know), it could just mean that each rotation is less energetic than one of Jean's, precisely because Helen's arms are so flexible.


Alright let me refrase the bit about Helen. With the fact she was able to destroy Riful's Ribbon's with it at its current state which we know cant be at max power due to Youki supression. We can conclude its of a strong enough power to inflict dmg on very heavy armoured foes. Even if it should be weaker then Jean's, which i highly doubt personaly atlest. It would stil be overall strong enough.


And regarding Youki Supression. We know from Rafaela and Terasa encounter that on close range a specialist can stil detect things. So we know it aint posibel to completly fool a "Superior Reader/Sensor" at atlest close range. And we know poor readers are completly fooled even at close range from Clare and Rafaela encounter since she wasent detected before they heared her walking up to them. So for me atlest the interesting topic here is how long would it take to Supress the Youki. If its like a switch then the 7 Ghosts would really be a strong force. But it would be reasonable to belive it would atlest take a few minutes to swap. So getting "into" a fight in stealth and start battle is easy but getting out harder.

[Goofus Maximus]

Remember from the meeting of Rafaela and Irene, that using yoki leaves one with a lingering "aura", and suppression has to be maintained for one to truly become "invisible", as were the fab four during the "snatch-n-run" attack on Riful. Riful is good at detecting even weak auras like Clare's was, yet she was suprised at seeing Miria, and even commented that she could detect no yoki presence.

[Anh_Minh]

Clare is hardly a "poor reader". And notice that Theresa also had to be close to Raphaela to "maybe" feel something.

It's also possible that the youki radiation never completely disappears but asymptotically tends to zero. Therefore, a few more years of suppression would have made Raphaela even stealthier than when she met Theresa.


Even a few minutes to switch their stealth on would make youki usable relatively easily and casually. Think in terms of days or even years. That would put a significant weight on youki usage.

[Sordes Pilosus]

Its a rather tricky question with all the different sorts of information on the subject already available. I find both hints showing it can disapear fast and that it would take a long time. So i guess there are a few Therories posibel:

Theory 1: Youki Supression has several forms. Form A being a forced Supression that Teresa was atempting when the hunting party for her entered the town. She seamed rather sure that it was posibel to do so leaving out this form is imposibel. Form B being the natural form. That Rapoaela and the 7 Ghosts currently seam to be in. No real effort is needed in order to maintain this compared to form A.

Theory 2: Youki Supression has been given Contradicting information on the manga that dont match up, an unintensional flaw from the Manga ka's side reflecting only the Natural is posibel. This can be belivable based on the response regarding the Org having no one with the ability currently available with Raphaela missing/dead. And can only be optained over a long period of non Youki usage. How long perhaps dependable of familiarity etc. Ranging from posibility as you said Anh Minh from days or far longer. However many years i doubt, as Irene has been practising her Quicksword and Ophilia dident sense her. Meaning the time period cant be to long if you first know how to do it.

[Anh_Minh]

What about Ophelia? Irene didn't use the Quicksword until they were face to face...

[Sordes Pilosus]

Its regarding the part about Raphaela says that Irene shouldent have been practising her Quicksword. I know this is after the point with Ophelia but Irene had no troubles with Ophelia at all when they encountered each other, and the nature of the Quicksword does seam to be a bit risky to be just not used for.. how many years since she vanished ? til that point. Raphaela made it sound like Irene had been continusly practising it. And the almost only main reason if not sole reason she hadent been found was the location she choose to live. It creates to me more speculation regarding Youki supression and its nature.

[Anh_Minh]

No, Irene stayed hidden for years by not releasing - not using the Quicksword. It's only after she used it, to save and then train Clare, that she became detectable again.

What Raphaela meant was "You should have have continued not using the Quicksword. Then I wouldn't have been able to find you".

[Sordes Pilosus]

It can tip both ways stil in the end. There are information pointing to many ways on Youki Supression to give it a clear cut answer. So the two theories stil hold water. Im leaning towards Theory B that i wrote at the end of last page. As it explains far more. The only thing it doesent support. Is the part about its value. As been pointed out. At their supressed state and with teamwork they can handle average/slightly above average Awaken Beings by using the first move prinsiple or basicly ambush. But against stronger foes the best thing it can do is provide a escape posibility. But i guess for survival its the ultimate skill to have. I just dont see it lasting much longer for the 7 Ghosts.

[SimplyEd]

The first point is related to Youki Supression. I agree that, well it should be obvius why. That the 7 Ghosts, the Fab 4 in particular will be using Youki in the future. Since the manga wont end without battles and conflicts between atlest Clare and Abyssal ones or Precilla. And fighting that high lvl of oponents DOES need Youki powered moves to stand a solid chanse. The real question here however is WHEN will they start using their powers again. Since its a bit of a unclear topic even after reading over the manga so far a few times regarding "How long does one not hafto use Youki before it becommes undetectable or are you able to switch rather rapidly ?" This question is a very important one in regards to their motives.

Well, as i said before, they can now take care of most types of enemies without tapping into youki. It's only for the very strong ones that they are basically forced to use it again. Remeber, a great deal of their abilities were originally based on youki infusion to gain maximum effect. We both know what kind of enemies they'll sooner or later have to face. These will be the time when they can no longer rely on stealth and have to use all they've got. It would be foolish to think otherwise since their opponents will not hold themselves back. They will go all out on the 7, there's absolutely no reason to think otherwise.
Right now, they still have the advantage of keeping everything low profile. That won't last for long though.

However that you state that in terms the Fab 4 are weak i cant find reason to belive at all.

Which is a gross misquotation. I never said that the Fab4 are weak. Please refer more closely to my answers towards Archmagination2002 and cajunman380 on page 9. You will see that my line of argumentation was based on the fact that i believe that the 7 are not independant from youki. The 7 are strong, yet, they are not as strong as most people want to see them.

Already at this state we are showed many things. Clare is already at this point being "pared" with several singel digits. Flora in particular as almost an equal. This means at this stage Claire could be counted probably atlest between rank 10-12 in terms of overall power in rankings. Miria herself is rank 6 and powered up quite a bit since the first awakening hunt we saw the fab 4 on. She doesent rival Raphela, Galatea or Ophilia probably at this point. But knowing that Ophilia, Galatea and Rapahela wont be oponents this time. Places her very high at a Claymore ranking at this point in time. Helen and Deneve are more support characters for Claire and Miria at this stage.


All in all, "pared" would probably be a bit much. She may fight with a single digit from Rank 6-10 and maybe 3-5 without getting killed outright. As Miria pointed out, "good enough to hold yourself against a higher single-digit". There is no notion that she could defeat a single-digit, and there is no sign that she'd be able to defeat Miria for that. I just don't see a reason to suddenly believe that any of the 7 could just outdo any of the highest Claymores Rank 1-5 and even some of the lower 6-10 outright. There are too many factors involved. We basically only see the improvements on the side of our heroines, but the other parties, the other powers in the world of Claymore haven't "stood still". They didn't become weaker just because the 7 got stronger.
As i said in various posts before, they are strong, but they still have a long way to go to duke it out with the strongest of characters.

But we hafto consider now that of the new Generation of Claymores they will be mostly encountering most are "New" meaning those survivors has alot more experience/Training time. So old rankings must be looked upon rather weakly as 7 years of training does give alot of powerups. Since lets face it. They dident train for 7 years just to stay in the North. And i doubt Miria would be stupid to only prepare and train for this time period. [

Yes, another thing that i've mentioned in one of my prior "answer quotes". There's absolutely no reason to equal "new"="weaker" at any given time. It's the same type of mistake that some people make when they comment on how "weak Audrey and Raychel" are. Those types of arguments have to be seen in context, the circumstances which lead to an assumption about powers. The only way to accurately discern who's more powerful than the other would be be an open fight.
Unless such a thing has happened there's no reason to neglect established frames of ranking and absolutes. The 7 can not take on Rank 1, strong Awakened or Abyssals without dire costs. And most definitely not with their non-youki trained attacks. Even if they'd use their youki there's absolutely no guarantee for victory.
Please, see also my notion on the fight with Rigardo for that matter.


But the real monster here is Claire. I cant kinda belive its not been mentioned yet. But i belive we can now say the old Quicksword and Windcutter is now slow and less powerfull then what she now can perform. Think about this. Windcutter and Quicksword is VERY simular they build on the same prinsiples. We know also Claire is a VERY fast learner. Imagine Quicksword and Windcutter combined, and i think you have Claire's new combat move. As im also suspecting she is about to repay her debt to Galatea i wouldent be surprised if she gets thought a bit more on Youki reading and perhaps manipulation also. I belive now Claire could easily be in the "new order" rank 3. We have also seen her posibel power in awakened form so when she fights she is a highly dangerous oponent.

Well, Clare is also the main heroine of this story. That may sound cheap, but it's the truth. If we take into account that the story is, more or less, half-way finished, then there's still a large way set before her. A lot growth and a lot of loss she'll have to endure before she and the others can take on the big cheese.
There's also no reason to believe that every ability could be combined so readily.
Or that Clare could learn all of these special ones. We still have to remeber that all her efforts with most of them will be less potent than the original variant of the original owner. Many of the originals were tailormade for their respective owners, their bodies were made for these moves. This doesn't have to be true for all abilities, but for most, i'd think.

Many of these problems have aleady been remarked by other board members before this post here.


About Youki suppression: Hmm, you see this feat can be trained by any sort of Claymore. The aptitude for it would still vary from one to another.
Youki can be suppressed to almost non-existance..a felt non-existance. It's still there however, because it's an inseparable part of a Claymores body. There's no reason to believe that suppressed youki would lose potence with progressing time.
Apart from that, there are Claymore with a natural knack for suppression (Priscilla/Raphaela) as i stated before. What they do might actually be a form of suppression and camouflage to further keep their youki from being detected.
Again, those natural users may as well have been gifted with this feat because of their vast amount of youki resources. If they wouldn't constantly have a consciously suppressed youki "screen" they'd be like blinding beacon to every being with the slightest ability in youki sensing.

These are all matters of stealth in the end. It may be used to get the upper hand in a fight beforehand, but in an open fight it becomes virtually useless.

[Tempest35]

Well, if I may....Quicksword and Windcutter essentially the same move. Only real difference is the way they are performed. Granted, Irene's fully mastered Quicksword would trounce Flora's best Windcutter by far because the raw speed and power would devastate her. An awakened arm versus 70% youki output to an arm is no contest, especially considering the ranking between them. (Irene's my numba 2, now and forever) :D

[stormy001_M1A2]

Quicksword needs charging of yoki, Windcutter did not. If I understand it correctly

[Trax]

My take on how Rafaela found Irene... I'm not sure how yoki detection works, perhaps the ones that are very proficient in it have a continuous yoki "radar" active and if any blips come up within range she can try to identify what the source is. After she detected Irene she came to the general area where it originated from, and discover her hideout after she detected Irene and Clare's auras later on. Still, I would say she was kinda lucky to pick up Irene in the first place, which means she must have been relatively close. Yoki sensing range seems quite limited and even a few miles of range is considered alot imo.

Btw. the suppresion of yoki and its detection really reminds me of HxH's nen auras and zetsu to avoid being detected. :)

[Sordes Pilosus]

SimplyEd. Personaly i belive Fab 4 can take on anyone but these so far:

1: Alicia & Beth - They dont have strong enough ability to read/manipulate Youki to take her on. But i belive its their first challange.
2: Miata her way of fighting i belive would couse alot of trouble but not imposibel.
3: Riful, Isley and Pricilla. They arent a match for Top AB yet. To get there we will minimum hafto see their status with Youki realese.

However i think you will agree with me on a few points.
1: The 7 Ghosts are at no point weaker then what they where. 7 Years of training and intense training from what Deneve tells us. They wont train to have major gains from it. And they dident train in abilities that would only be usefull on a short term.
2: Clare is a extreme learner. We have seen her see things only a few times and picking up on it rather fast. We know she has tutched the elements of Manipulation slightly, we know she can read. And we know she has a rather large sense range. Her original powers lay in a simular line as Galatea afterall.. And she has quicksword and windcutter. Its safe to say that Clare, training for 7 years would gain major harvest. We know she had a very hard time starting out. So lets say 3 and a half years of effective training on her. She was already basicly on the powerrange of a singel digit before the timeskip. So i belive it would be rather safe to judge she can fight any singel digit AND win except Miata, Alicia and Beth currently alone.
3: The composision of the Fab 4 is VERY ideal. Deneve is basicly the ideal front. She can take major dmg and "be just fine". I belive she now has the strenght to also be called a slight powerhouse so out classing her wont be to easy. We have Helen the longrange fighter. How many Claymore's can even be called longrange fighters ? She is the only one we have seen or even had any sort of news about. With the adision to Jean's skill to it all. And we know she can use it good enough based on that Riful's ribbons did get destroyed by it. We can safly asume that her longrange support will be far deadlyer then before. ANd jean's skill can also be used on more close range should it be needed. Clare is a Offensive reader with a strong attack along with Miria's hard to hit/good approach its quite strong. If Clare learns Manipulation she and Miria is a insane team already. With Deneve and Helen's support its composision can pretty much be said to be ideal. It covers elements needed for "any fight". We know ofcourse they aint on the level to take on Abyssal class yet.



But since your a pretty good speculator yourself. Id like to start a discussion with you regarding how you belive the Fab 4 has grown. And lets use their situation before the timeskip as base. We know pretty much what their up against now. We know their cover has been blown with the rescuse from Riful. We also know before they release only Miata has a chanse of finding them. So how do you think the changes to Clare, Deneve, Helen and Miria has effected their battle strenght. And how you belive: Miria's new Mirage, Helen's posibel combination of arm extension and drill works, how Deneve's awsome regeneration ability along with her new style ? (probably far more offensive and posibily simular to undine's) will affect her. And what you belive about Clare's groth from now. What you think she will learn as her powerups ? Personaly i have some posibel theories. But id like to hear your thoughs about it. (And if mod is wondering what parts this has with biology of claymore's it will start from here based on how things will work together. Explenations of groth etc.

[SimplyEd]

Well, my take on their situation would be:

Before the time skip they would have been able to take on weak and average Awakened with combined effort and under the premise that each and every one of them used their best attacks with support of their youki reserves.
Strong Awakened (Rigardo for ex.), Rank 1/strong single-digits around 2-5 and most of the weaker single-digits 6-10 and Abyssals were out of their leagues by far.
Miria and Clare would be special cases in this equation, but there's only so much they could have done by themselves.

After the time skip: They can probably take on weak Awakened without using their own youki resources and with their trained non-youki variants of their attacks alone. Average Awakened may also fall under this scenario, but again with intensive combined effort. With the usage of their own youki they could defeat such opponents more readily and with less combined efforts.
Strong Awakened will not fall to their non-youki attacks. They will have to go all out on such opponents or they will die. No guarantee for success.

Abyssals. Rank1/2 Claymores will be impossible. A few higher single-digits will also pose real threats to them. Again, they may overcome single-digits with group tactics and usage of their youki. One-on-one fights will be hard, even for Miria and Clare. There is a possibility for them to beat such opponents, but there are no definite guarantees.


Essentially, they are not yet able to deal with the stronger opponents in the world of Claymore, just like before.
They have fortified their base powers and will be able to deal with many of the more common enemies much better.
For them to take stronger opponents head on would be either impossible or too risky. Their group tactics are great, but stronger Awakened would pluck the weaker ones of the 7 from the battlefield one by one. The remaining ones would have to use all their strength to keep themselves alive and even then there's no way to tell wether they'd survive.
Counting on a rescue plan that involves an almost complete Awakening again would be foolish.

The way is see it, they'd have to stock up their own forces even further. There are insanly strong Claymores acting as wildcard right now and there may be other allies around.

As i said, right now, the 7 are still playing it save as best as they can. Confronting Riful there and getting away with their lives was an outrageously lucky circumstance. The next time will not play itself out that nice.

[Anh_Minh]

I think, if it's four to one, the fab four could take on any single digit but Alicia and Beth, without using their youki. They'd just need teamwork. (Miata could be a challenge, though.)

And before the time skip, they were able to take average male awakened, who were stronger than average female. (And should by now be pretty rare...)

[Goofus Maximus]

Youki Supression has several forms. Form A being a forced Supression that Teresa was atempting when the hunting party for her entered the town. She seamed rather sure that it was posibel to do so leaving out this form is imposibel. Form B being the natural form. That Rapoaela and the 7 Ghosts currently seam to be in. No real effort is needed in order to maintain this compared to form A.

Youki Supression has been given Contradicting information on the manga that dont match up, an unintensional flaw from the Manga ka's side reflecting only the Natural is posibel. This can be belivable based on the response regarding the Org having no one with the ability currently available with Raphaela missing/dead. And can only be optained over a long period of non Youki usage. How long perhaps dependable of familiarity etc. Ranging from posibility as you said Anh Minh from days or far longer. However many years i doubt, as Irene has been practising her Quicksword and Ophilia dident sense her. Meaning the time period cant be to long if you first know how to do it.

Of course, Teresa never used her yoki powers, which is the explanation for her moniker "Theresa of the faint smile", because her face never distorts from yoki usage. Thus, she's forceably suppressing something that she never used in the first place.

I don't think there's a mismatch, because Irene only started practicing again after picking up Clare and fighting off Ophelia, in preparation for teaching Clare. Thus, when Rafaela shows up, the first thing she says is: "I wouldn't have found you, if you hadn't practiced your quicksword technique, leaving you with the aura of a warrior" or something like that. When Irene cut of her own arm, she told Clare that she didn't need that arm, and that she could regenerate a humanish arm, so not to worry

[Sordes Pilosus]

Now here we have some interesting things going. The wildcards. What kinda intrests me right now is Clare's groth rate compared to the other claymore's. Is it due to her personality or is it something other with her being only a 1/4th.

Personaly however even if its kinda obvius it kinda strikes me. Claymore's inherit traits from the Youki planted in them. Could it be for instance that Pricilla's was a winged type ? If so it would help further explain things. But if also this was the case why hasent the Org done more concrete devolopment (other then Beth and Alicia) to build up better suited Claymore's to deal with the current situation (the 7 year timeskip).

Also how will the Wildcards effect Clare's growth ? The Wildcards atm seam to be: Clarice + Miata (yes i count them as one), Raphaela, Galatea and Irene. Those 4 Options are all i can see. Of those i belive 3 could give Clare a good groth in terms of upgrade. Personaly to me it seams Clare right now is by far the most versitle of all Claymore's. Atlest when it comes to potensional. And anyone else crossed the idea of Galatea helping Clare to master quite alot of tricks ? Say if they encounter Clarice first. To me atlest she seams to be more human then rest of the Claymore's. Atlest in personality. Miria could be the exception to this but overall Clarice is closer stil. I belive there WILL be a event that helps Clare "settle down" the turmoil inside her allowing her better Control of her Youki. And if so how wouldent training with Galatea involve things ? Considering a few things:

1: She is a Deffensive type.
2: She can Manipulate Youki.
3: She has helped Clare settle down before.

SOooooo anyone else thinking that Galatea will be the key for Clare to master Partial awakening ? pluss in worst case scenario she could even be counted as a safty net and survive.

[hollywoodlou]

the last 8 posts were all spoilers....is this the spoiler thread?;)

[NoSanninWa]

the last 8 posts were all spoilers....is this the spoiler thread?;)
Note that they were carefully marked with spoiler tags for your protection. The only threads which don't allow spoilers inside of spoiler tags are the episode discussion threads.

[hollywoodlou]

Note that they were carefully marked with spoiler tags for your protection. The only threads which don't allow spoilers inside of spoiler tags are the episode discussion threads.

I know what you're saying NSW. A number of posters are just... spoiler-happy.

Instead of sentences, I saw a barrage of spoiler boxes. I think we should open another spoiler thread.....but we just communicate with spoiler boxes instead.:p

[Sordes Pilosus]

Well it is a little hard to talk about Biology when the jap manga holds alot of rather valuable information on alot of the subjects. And overall its more interesting to have as much base facts as posibel around before going into speculations.

[SimplyEd]

I know what you're saying NSW. A number of posters are just... spoiler-happy.

Instead of sentences, I saw a barrage of spoiler boxes. I think we should open another spoiler thread.....but we just communicate with spoiler boxes instead.:p

It can't really be helped,you see? There's just too much important stuff going on in the later Volumes and we can't really ignore all of that.
For the most part, it's only dangerous for anime-only people to look inside a spoiler box. Viz-only people are a bit safer but they still have to watch out for specific spoiler titles.
If you see a header that goes "Volumes 12+", then you don't want to look at it as an anime-watcher or a viz-reader because you will be spoiled hard, even if it's merely speculation.


SOooooo anyone else thinking that Galatea will be the key for Clare to master Partial awakening ? pluss in worst case scenario she could even be counted as a safty net and survive.


Galatea would surely be a good teacher for general youki control and manipulation. The whole thing is still very much reliant on the recipients capabilities.
As i said, i think it's pretty likely that the 7 will have to bolster their own ranks in the future. All of the wildcards are, of course, perfect candidates for that venture.
All of them still have relevant plot ties which blend in quite nice with the needs of our 7.

Clarice/Miata: Currently performing their "goodbye mission" as in a "let them kill each other off, we could care less" sentiment by the Org.
They need to get away from the Org or else they'll surely end up in tragedy and Clarice seems to be reasonable enough, albeit hoplessly clumsy.

Galatea: Being traced by her wannabe executioners Clarice/Miata and the prime target for Riful as well.
She can probably take care of Clarice/Miata, but i fear for her against an Abyssal. Her supreme youki manipulation is an extreme advantage for any party and will probably be useful against Alicia/Beth in some way.
Also, she's a former "Eye" and together with Tabatha and also Clare, the 7 would have an outstanding potential for recon and intel affairs. As far as i know, the Org "only" has one new "Eye" operational, Rune.

Raphaela: Former quasi Rank 1 material, 'nuff said. She may have qualms with the Orgs ongoing Soul Link experiment, which is why her own Soul Link may be a trump card against a possible Alicia/Beth confrontation.

Irene: Well, if Raphaela was kind enough to actually let her live on (she really had no reason to follow the Orgs orders back then + she may have had her on agenda back then) she'll be a worthy asset.

All in all, each and every one of them will contribute to an overall "growth" of our 7, be it on a personal level or on a troop-size level.

[Trax]

Well, here's a little topic that can be discussed without spoiling anything, unfortunately the reason for this is also that there are basically no real facts concerning most of this. I've been curious about the origin of Yoma and how they are able to sustain their numbers. This topic was mentioned early in the thread but I suppose the lack of facts make it hard to have alot of discussion on it.

Origin: Basically unknown, I do believe it was mentioned somewhere they'd been around since ancient times. They're creatures demonic in nature that are just "there". Not that much to discuss here I guess.

Reproduction: Considering that claymores have been around for a long time already, and would have greatly reduced the number of yoma, it seems that the yoma have some way to reproduce fast enough to keep up their numbers sufficiently. Whether their reproduction is asexual or not is hard to say, I'm not sure if there are male a nd female yoma. The one in chapter 3 seemed female but that could have been a result from disguising itself as a claymore. One possibility I thought of was that there could be yoma dens spread around the world where something like yoma queens produce new yoma, or some other form of procreation takes place.

Abilities and properties: Yoma are sly and intelligent predators, able to prey on humans with a combination of deception and power. Most yoma seem pretty generic, with some basic abilities like disguising themselves as humans. At first I thought this disguise was done by consuming their victim, then taking their form, but the ch3 yoma disguised itself as a claymore at will. So it seems they can forcibly create a disguise aswell. Another basic ability we have seen several times is the extention of fingers to pierce their target. They also have superior speed, strength and toughness compared to humans. Some are winged, which has been mentioned to be rare.

[Anh_Minh]

Here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1003425&postcount=26) I posted the idea that the organisation and its Claymore might not have been around that long - about a century. (Of course, depending on factors I could only guess at, it could be a lot older.)

In that same thread, I posted a few thoughts (also highly speculative) on youmas. I'll copy them here (Sorry, but they're in spoiler tags too...):

Fact: there are plenty of roads, and inns, and at least some cities, which means traders and travellers.
Fact: it's been remarked by Raphaela that there are yomas in the wilderness, and that they're a hazard.

(I don't remember, has it been mentioned before that? If so, maybe this could all be taken out of spoiler tag...)


Conclusion: there are two types of yomas. One is the one Claymores are hired against. They're smart, can take the shape and the memories of the people they eat, and are nigh unstoppable by normal humans. The other type isn't nearly as bad. It probably lacks the impersonating abilities of the former, and while they remain dangerous man-eaters, they can be defeated by human beings. It may take several armed men and people have to travel in groups, but it can be done.

Reasoning: if they were all of the first type, traveling would be practically impossible, or maybe the wilderness yoma would be so rare they wouldn't be worth mentioning. I mean, as long as you stay in your village, you can hope the yomas will eat your neighbours instead of you, while waiting for the Claymore to arrive. But if you're lost in the middle of a nowhere, everybody in the group could be taken by a few yomas who decide to gorge, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. You'll just never get to your destination. And even if you only lose a few people at each trip, helpless to prevent passing yomas from grabbing a snack, let's say you have a 1/20 chance of getting eaten at each trip to the nearest city... Those aren't good odds. You've got a roughly 60% probability of dying before your tenth round-trip. Also, nobody would welcome your group for fear of you bringing a yoma impostor in you midst.

Speculation: the term "yoma" may cover several related species. Or the two types may be one species at different points in their life-cycle. Maybe once one of the second type has eaten enough people and absorbed their intelligence, he becomes of the first type and may decide to set up shop in a populated area as a fake human.




Other mystery: the yomas seem to be underfoot everywhere. And while it's not an everyday occurrence, the destruction of whole villages isn't exactly rare. How come yomas haven't hunted humans into extinction, or at least kept them at around the stone age? So many invincible (before the Claymores came around) predators would make communication, and therefore civilization, difficult.

[Trax]

I'd say there are 2 factors that allow humans to keep their numbers up sufficiently. One is that regular yoma don't need to feed too often, once every week or two according to what Clare said in ch6. Another is that the human presumably vastly outnumber yoma. Alot of the villages calling for help only had 1 yoma, perhaps there are more if the town is bigger. Also, yoma are intelligent, and would realize that "overeating" would not only call undue attention to them but also unnecessarily deplete their foodsource. Oh, and it doesn't seem that yoma have any sort of hierarchy, although I suppose that they would acknowledge a stronger yoma if it came into their hunting grounds and possibly leave in search of another as a result. Similar to predators in the animal world. Whether they hunt alone or in a group probably depends on their personality and strength. I'd say that the stronger they are, the more they tend to hunt alone.

[Anh_Minh]

I'm questioning how the humans could rise from stone age hunter gatherers to, well, middle age city builder. And how they did it before the Claymores came around.

And imagine a village of even three hundred souls, with one yoma inside. I'm not sure, but by medieval standards, I don't think it's small.

Do you think they can reproduce fast enough to compensate for losing one person every two weeks? Heck, it would only take about ten years for everyone to be eaten... if they all decided to stay there in what would be nothing more than the yoma's pantry. Which is unrealistic. By the time they lost their tenth member, they'd be seriously panicking. By the twentieth death, they'd be doing something highly self-destructive, like killing each other or scattering in the wilderness to avoid being eaten.

It could possibly work if each yoma had a huge territory to support him, and moved around, never staying long enough to actually ruin a place. But that's not the behaviour they've exhibited so far, or they wouldn't be waiting for the Claymores to show up. Besides, there seems to be an awful lot of them, though I suppose it might be observer bias.

[Goofus Maximus]

Personally, I suspect that youmas are a result of an experiment gone bad, by the Organization. I'm betting that they're behind it all, in the end.

Do those guys from the organization die or age? Or do they just grow uglier and uglier?

[Yorae_paladin1]

Here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1003425&postcount=26) I posted the idea that the organisation and its Claymore might not have been around that long - about a century. (Of course, depending on factors I could only guess at, it could be a lot older.)

In that same thread, I posted a few thoughts (also highly speculative) on youmas. I'll copy them here (Sorry, but they're in spoiler tags too...):

Fact: there are plenty of roads, and inns, and at least some cities, which means traders and travellers.
Fact: it's been remarked by Raphaela that there are yomas in the wilderness, and that they're a hazard.

(I don't remember, has it been mentioned before that? If so, maybe this could all be taken out of spoiler tag...)


Conclusion: there are two types of yomas. One is the one Claymores are hired against. They're smart, can take the shape and the memories of the people they eat, and are nigh unstoppable by normal humans. The other type isn't nearly as bad. It probably lacks the impersonating abilities of the former, and while they remain dangerous man-eaters, they can be defeated by human beings. It may take several armed men and people have to travel in groups, but it can be done.

Reasoning: if they were all of the first type, traveling would be practically impossible, or maybe the wilderness yoma would be so rare they wouldn't be worth mentioning. I mean, as long as you stay in your village, you can hope the yomas will eat your neighbours instead of you, while waiting for the Claymore to arrive. But if you're lost in the middle of a nowhere, everybody in the group could be taken by a few yomas who decide to gorge, and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. You'll just never get to your destination. And even if you only lose a few people at each trip, helpless to prevent passing yomas from grabbing a snack, let's say you have a 1/20 chance of getting eaten at each trip to the nearest city... Those aren't good odds. You've got a roughly 60% probability of dying before your tenth round-trip. Also, nobody would welcome your group for fear of you bringing a yoma impostor in you midst.

Speculation: the term "yoma" may cover several related species. Or the two types may be one species at different points in their life-cycle. Maybe once one of the second type has eaten enough people and absorbed their intelligence, he becomes of the first type and may decide to set up shop in a populated area as a fake human.




Other mystery: the yomas seem to be underfoot everywhere. And while it's not an everyday occurrence, the destruction of whole villages isn't exactly rare. How come yomas haven't hunted humans into extinction, or at least kept them at around the stone age? So many invincible (before the Claymores came around) predators would make communication, and therefore civilization, difficult.

the only other reason why humans are like that is perhaps one of two perhaps there were humans with power who could fight and kill the yoma outright kinda like evolution too meet the challenge. Or something protected the humans something quite powerful. remember a predator is something else's prey.

[Negativedark]

Another possibility is that originally there were less Yoma. If you go back to when humans were just scattered little tribes, a Yoma couldn't hide as well and would have been faster figuring out who a Yoma was. So Yoma moved more, and there were less of them. Then when civilization came along, and the human population increased, so did the Yoma, but the sudden change in the food sources avilibility made the Yoma breed to fast, and they started to overpopulate.

[Yorae_paladin1]

Another possibility is that originally there were less Yoma. If you go back to when humans were just scattered little tribes, a Yoma couldn't hide as well and would have been faster figuring out who a Yoma was. So Yoma moved more, and there were less of them. Then when civilization came along, and the human population increased, so did the Yoma, but the sudden change in the food sources avilibility made the Yoma breed to fast, and they started to overpopulate.

Good one yomas would have to be very careful they do not kill off there food supply so they probably madesure mass kills did not occur cause over feeding could destroy there food in those days predators know when too stop

[Archmagination2002]

Its seems clear that Yoma's were 'introduced' at a later date to human Civilization... otherwise the humans would have become extinct by now. I also bet that Yoma's eat animal guts, but humans just taste SO much better(example: liver to steak) I noticed something interesting in the Claymore world too.. no mention of Oceans or very large bodies of water.(We know from basic science that a LOT of water is needed for life to be supported..)

Speculation: Why there are so many Yoma's? Though the Claymores are killing a lot of them they never seem to drop in number. What if Yoma's are being introduced from outside the Claymore/Organization continent? Predators follow to where the food is and the only place where there is there is a lot of food is now the Claymore/Organization continent. Thats one line of thought that I had.

Here is another: The Organization creates Yoma and releases them into the wild. They perform a delicate balancing act with making sure that enough Yoma's are created so they never run out of jobs for their Claymores. They have basically created their own little world.. the only way for it to be threatened is from outside sources: Something like the 7 Ghosts..

[Insearchof]

I was just ruminating about the awakened forms of all the Abyssals blah blah blah. Since their awakened forms are the manifestatons of their physical selves and their inherent abilities, Priscilla's form is the most humanoid of all four--five if you count Alicia. Is it because of her over all sky-high stats? All the others have have novel abilities that gave them Geiger-esque or hentai-porn forms which makes Priscilla almost simplistic if only it wasn't for the fact that she is the "THING" not to be trifled with even by Abyssals themselves.
Also, is it me or did Teresa (and Priscilla) have the oft-wished but never gained talents of being a jack-of-all-trades, Master-of-ALL. Fighting prowess flexibility coupled by sheer power. She effortlessly parried with Ilena, agile and strong wherever and whenever she needs be with the Dynamic Duo, and nicked and overwhelmed a rabid Priscilla without reading youki. Which begs the questions, what would Teresa be like if she were pushed enough to awaken. AB Priscilla might make like an Audrey and do a golden shower. I guess that's what makes Teresa really smile.

[SimplyEd]

About the Youma origin: Well, seeing that youki is a supernatural type of energy that only originates from Youma and nowhere else, but can be merged with a human body, i'd say that it's also a pretty likely scenario that they are outsiders to the world of Claymore, coming from a different plane altogether.
At some point in the past, when human civilization began to bloom, they'd have come there via an unknown method (unstable one-way portals; magics; time-space anomalies) and taken a liking to humans as their primary (only?) food source.

As for their seemingly unlimited numbers, it could be that such "cross-overs" still happen irregularly over the years. So far, there's no evidence that Youmas do reproduce sexually, asexually etc. It's not even a 100% clear wether they even have different genders at all.
So, if they really are outsiders, then what would be their status in their own natural surroundings? Would they be the equivalent of "humans" in their world? Would they be predators or prey there? Were they created artificially or naturally?

So many questions and not a single definite answer in sight. Personally, because of the peculiar nature of youki, i'd tend towards that "outsider" point of view. Let's see how this all plays out.

[Sordes Pilosus]

Well personaly i have a theory on Youma origin that would also explain the compability for Claymores. What if, Youma are born from DEAD Humans ? We know that staying "Human" for Claymore's during the awakening depends on a strong will and a focus on the "good emotions". But what if Youma are the result of deaths filled with Hatred, Anger, madness etc ?

Those emotions in the first place if "reborn" would explain a bit about how Youma targets humans. The source of the anger, hate etc. The only drawback to this theory is why its not a known fact. If so one would belive all dead would be burned or something.