Claymore - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Pellissier

2007-06-19, 13:44

Welcome to the discussion thread for Claymore, Episode 12.

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killer3000ad

2007-06-19, 13:49

First! Hehe sorry i had to. Anyways, the screenshots over at 4chan really got my appetite watering, looks like they covered 3 chapters here.

toxic_trance

2007-06-19, 14:00

Ophelia!!! Ophelia!!!! Ophelia!!!!

superzombie23

2007-06-19, 14:02

Can't wait to watch.

Fenrir_valindri

2007-06-19, 14:19

Hope some screenshots pop up, I can never find anything on 4chan :(

Squawks

2007-06-19, 14:29

OPHELIA!

There, as you can see, I can't wait. D:

NoSanninWa

2007-06-19, 14:34

killer3000ad

2007-06-19, 14:36

Time for everyone to see how girls with ponytails play with barbie dolls. Fortunately Clare brought her live action Ken doll and she's playing house. :D

But first Ophelia plays a little game of "Special Places" with Clare :D:D

Fenrir_valindri

2007-06-19, 14:47

Let us just say people like her for simliar reasons they like Hollow Ichigo in Bleach and that is all I can say.

Lendial

2007-06-19, 15:56

bloodthirsty and prideful? that doesnt seem enough to warrant like. maybe the pony tail but she isnt very feminant/pretty unlike galatea/teresa nor does she seem very nice.

Defiled one

2007-06-19, 15:57

Squawks

2007-06-19, 16:05

Kinematics

2007-06-19, 16:23

In related news, can anyone explain why they like Ophelia so much? (Without spoiling episode 13) I just don't get it. If you have to spoil episode 13 to explain, then please just let it wait until then to answer me.

At first she was just another creepy psychotic chick. Interesting antagonist, but nothing really more than that. The more they went through her storyline, though, the more I got a, well... hate to say this, but.. 'moe' feeling for her. I won't try to spoil 13 because frankly I'm not sure at what point that transition happened. It was just the accumulation of everything that occurred in the storyline, and then rereading it several times.

It may be vaguely like how people are sympathetic to Priscilla (who I don't care for too much, except as a cool villain), but I'm not sure that's the best comparison. I will say that in general I'm far more enamored with the darker, recalcitrant types than the ever-hopeful, optimistic types (and thus tend to despise most leading female characters; Clare avoids this and stays safely on the ++ list).

Possibly a better comparison is Helen. Ophelia and Helen are the only two Claymores so far that seem to show strong emotional foibles outside of the designated "I'm here to do my job" motif. Definitely taken in extremely different directions, but they seem to have the greatest sense of character that you can actually latch on to. People like Clare, Deneve, Miria and Galatea are far more controlled and internalized. While I definitely like all of them, there's a distance that they hold the world (and thus viewer) at that makes it difficult to truly feel attached to them.

Now excuse me while I go find a new avatar to match the sig. :)

NoSanninWa

2007-06-19, 16:33

Thanks Kinematics. I think I understand it better after reading your post. For myself I think she is a nutjob-and-a-half who would be bettter off (and happier) with a sword through her sternum. But I suppose I can see the alternate view now that you've explained it. Looking forward to seeing that new avatar, though I'll miss the current one.

I'm looking forward to seeing the episode subbed. Good times... good times... This is going to be so cool animated. Can someone tell me what scene the anime ends at. Normally by this point someone posts a long list of screenshots or a synopsis that answers the question and I reply on it to help me keep out spoilers.

Defiled one

2007-06-19, 16:37

^The only thing that I can say is one thing <10> My vote is ten and I don´t regret it. it brings back the feeling of the Golden age ;_; When Teresa was alive.

Deathkillz

2007-06-19, 16:41

Ophelia is shown in the preview right? she looks like a total whacko to say the least :uhoh: but i think the background on her would be the saving grace for me to even like her considering how detestable hate i still feel towards Priscilla (dam that bitch! >.<) ~ while i do like crazy psychos i think it all comes down to the form of torture they give out :p

Mentar

2007-06-19, 16:41

Thanks Kinematics. I think I understand it better after reading your post. For myself I think she is a nutjob-and-a-half who would be bettter off (and happier) with a sword through her sternum. But I suppose I can see the alternate view now that you've explained it. Looking forward to seeing that new avatar, though I'll miss the current one.

You're not alone with your wish to see her skewered. In fact, that never changed for me, and won't in ep13. Or later.

I'm looking forward to seeing the episode subbed. Good times... good times...

Something's strange tonight. Is it just my winny/share server, or are there absolutely NO Claymore raws listed yet? Not just not downloaded, but NOT EVEN LISTED?

Very unusual.

[Edit: And in just this second, the very first one showed up on Share]

killer3000ad

2007-06-19, 16:45

I noticed that too Mentar, right now I am refreshing 4 different raw sites every 5 minutes and no luck yet.

pomps

2007-06-19, 16:47

The episode ends where Ophelia start the hunt for Clare - with her wicked smile of course :D

Tempest35

2007-06-19, 16:49

Is it the draw of the Dark Side that makes people like Ophelia? I think that it is the same draw that pulled people to Nao Yuuki's side in Mai-HiME. Both of them went totally against conventions and the norms and they both liked inflicting pain on others for their own gain and sometimes even pleasure. Normally, this isn't grounds to worship at their feet, much less try to get along or even tolerate them.

I guess it is because we all know that us human types don't like doing anything without a reason, be it good or bad. Behavior like this often has a reason and I think that the draw is to find out just what that reason is. People want to know all that they can and this is no exception, especially with a mental case like Ophelia. The crazier they are, the more interesting they are. And coincedently, the more we feel for them, despite their own best efforts NOT to be pitied, or so they say. ^^

I'll pose another question but after I see where the episode ends. Don't want to spoil anyone...too much.
EDIT: Matte ku...THAT'S the end point? Thanks pomps. I'll wait until the subs come out for it then - it might help with the question I want to ask. ^^

Mentar

2007-06-19, 16:59

I wouldn't say that Nao resembles Ophelia very well. Nao in HiME was selfish and independent, but she didn't harm her own kind. Even in the end when she captured Natsuki, she was only threatening her, but didn't really bring it over her to act on it, _even though she would have had some genuine justification_

Ophelia is simply a sadist of the truest meaning of the word. It's the kind of "playfulness" that rips wings out of flies to see how long they live. Maybe it's a personal matter, but I absolutely detest people who exhibit this kind of purposeful cruelty.

Moe??

Good heavens...

Tempest35

2007-06-19, 17:25

Well, Nao was the first one that jumped into my mind - there should be others out there who better resemble the Sadist of the Century.

And should Ophelia ever be considered for a moe contest, much less actually win the darn thing...:twitch:

Negativedark

2007-06-19, 18:04

What's the appeal of Ophelia for me? I love to hate her. She will playfully and innocently talk about this great fun game she's come up with.... That involves your horribly bloody demise, after she does something horrible to you, just to kill time. I'm sure it's nothing that extensive psychiatirc help, inluding electroshock, and maybe a lobotomy can't fix. Or it could just be the ears. Oh and I love her name.
I have got to see if I can find a clip with her talking someday. For some reason I alway's picture her talking in a sing song voice.

stormy001_M1A2

2007-06-19, 18:14

Time for everyone to see how girls with ponytails play with barbie dolls. Fortunately Clare brought her live action Ken doll and she's playing house. :D

In related news, can anyone explain why they like Ophelia so much? (Without spoiling episode 13) I just don't get it. If you have to spoil episode 13 to explain, then please just let it wait until then to answer me.

PMS in action is a sight to behold. Nothing more scary or fascinating to see a girl who is on rampage, especially somebody wielding a big sword and have superlative human abilities. And her playful sadism. As much is revolting, it is also fascinating, as in what is going on in his/her mind when committing such act? There must be a cause and effect in psychological aspect.

Just like volumes of book try to explain Hitler's motivation for killing 4.8 million to 6 million Jews on unprecedented ruthlessness in 20th century since there is a great demand for it. Ophelia will be on same model as to why people find her interesting. It is like admiring tigers as fascinating predator, even though we all knew tigers can have humans for snack if we get too close.

Twisted Reality

2007-06-19, 18:28

Ophelia is entertaining because I see nearly anything she does as being darkly comedic. Perfect example of another such character would be Kefka.

Now, in FF6, Kefka screwed with the font of mana for the world, causing the planet's tectonic plates to shift in random ways...bringing untold destruction and change to the world.

Why'd he do it? Just because he can. (This guy even has a line that goes "I HATE! I HATE! I HATE! I HATE! I HATE! I HATE!..." for several pages in the game. And there you are, pressing "X" to get through it all.)

And its funny. His untold glee and penchant for destruction is much like how you feel when you used to blow up those little plastic army-men with firecrackers. Or watching a fire burn. It's a cause into itself. It's elemental and primal. There is no motivation. At least, not one that isn't arbitrary or insane.

And watching Ophelia having fun, is fun. A little part of me, one that revels in chaos and destruction, enjoys watching her in action. She's also a hilarious contrast to the usually somber Claymores. She's upbeat and doesn't get down over little things or angst about her condition. (Well, okay, she kinda does later, but it doesn't slow her down for long.) The fact that Clare is so taken aback by her completely inappropriate and surreal behaviors is part of the fun. (Did she just taste my blood?! WTF?)

You can also take nearly any mad-scientist in anime, and pretty much find the same thing. They love their research so much that they don't much care what happens to the people afflicted by the force for change they unleash upon the world. Their child-like glee never diminished for long at any setback to their goals. (Lloyd from Code Geass, Desty Nova from Battle Angel Alita...etc.)

Desty Nova (when being threatened with imminent death, bloodied and missing several teeth): "Oh I can't bear it! To never to be able to eat flan (http://www.battleangel.info/flan.html) again!"

zetsumei

2007-06-19, 19:06

Ophelia reminds me of Lucy.

Except Ophelia is doing for me fun and enjoy it very much, while Lucy only really go into pyscho mode when someone pisses her off. So Ophelia is like Lucy +1. I just see a lot of similarty between the two.

This is going to be a very good episode. >_< / It only get better from here~ WEEEEEEEEE~ lol

**Hmm, maybe using Mariko as a comparison to Ophelia would be a better match. o:

pushpaka

2007-06-19, 19:39

wrex_japan

2007-06-19, 20:18

Ep. 12 Screencaps and summary. (http://wrexgrafix.com/anime/blog/?p=543)

Some girl on girl fondling, tentacles, and the KISS... wait, what anime are we watching?

Archmagination2002

2007-06-19, 20:23

Ophelia is far from my favourite character but I still like her alot. The reasons?
So far no one has done as much of a number on Clare as she has. Clare has never been in as much danger before and it's the first time you see Clare really scared as a Claymore. Big props to Ophelia for that.

Ophelia cut to the heart of it when faced with the dilemna of dealing with hostile
humans. Dilemna, what dilemna? Just take up the Ophelia solution :p Had Teresa done that, she may still be alive. Certainly more appealing, than letting a crazy unwashed bandit try and rape her. It's an ugly bit of logic, but hey I'm sure more than one Claymore thought about it.

pushpaka, Ophelia's solution wasn't workable for Teresa. Remember Teresa DIDN'T report herself to the Organization. It was her handler/gobetween who spyed on her and reported her actions.. I am just surprised that Ophelia hasn't had her handler report on her. Then again knowing how crazy Ophelia is I think her handler realized that Ophelia would cheerfully chop off his head and just report him as collateral battle damage if he tried spying on her.

Twisted Reality

2007-06-19, 20:32

pushpaka, Ophelia's solution wasn't workable for Teresa. Remember Teresa DIDN'T report herself to the Organization. It was her handler/gobetween who spyed on her and reported her actions.. I am just surprised that Ophelia hasn't had her handler report on her. Then again knowing how crazy Ophelia is I think her handler realized that Ophelia would cheerfully chop off his head and just report him as collateral battle damage if he tried spying on her.

You know what I never understood? Just because you can't kill the bandits doesn't mean you can't harm them. Do they really both eyes or ears to live? And you can deprive them of those after they still haven't take a hint after you've broken their fingers or arms. Lucky for them, broken bones will heal...maybe not entirely straight, but they will heal.

*pshaw*

It's sort of funny how the bandits knew right away that Theresa had killed all the Yoma and then the first thing they do is to kill everybody in the village without restraint. Because everybody knows that *dead* peasants are always more useful than *live* ones, right?

Archmagination2002

2007-06-19, 20:54

Well.. I think its only the men that were killed at 1st. I think the plan was 1)Kill the men 2)Rape the woman and then kill them(maybe keep a few around for fun) 3)Capture the boys and girls to sell. Healthy children would be more valuable than adults.. easier to control, easier to feed, easier to train and they can be trained easier to accept their lot in life as slaves.

OMG_Zerg_Rush

2007-06-19, 21:10

here are some ep pics http://wrexgrafix.com/anime/blog/?p=543

dutchman

2007-06-19, 22:59

Ophelia is simply a sadist of the truest meaning of the word. It's the kind of "playfulness" that rips wings out of flies to see how long they live. Maybe it's a personal matter, but I absolutely detest people who exhibit this kind of purposeful cruelty.

Crazy psycho bi..ch from hell thats was my first thought after this episode.

I guess why most of us are facinated by Ophelia. Is due to her childlike sadistic streak coupled with her playful soft spoken voice which can give you shivers when you see her commiting atrocities.

I fully agree with Mentar that people like this don't deserve any sympathy. However I won't be suprised that she still will be a favourite character for some:twitch:

btw her voice was a perfect match Madhouse sure knows how to cast their VA's for this series!

on a side note I have visited some other forums an the HATE for Raki has increased a TEN fold !! I wonder why;)

witchking99

2007-06-19, 23:10

OMG!!! That last scene with Clare and Raki was screaming "straight shota" all the way.I must confess that I felt physically aroused.Total turn on!!!!.

Tempest35

2007-06-19, 23:12

pomps

2007-06-19, 23:26

Clare goes above them all, look at her face after the thing with Raki, it scrared the heck out of me. Clare with those eyes equals OMG$%^%_-=!!!.

Azure King

2007-06-20, 00:45

Ophelia ??

pyscho like pyschos :P

monir

2007-06-20, 00:46

More screenshots to those of WrexJ... Had to check out on the raw after observing so much commotion over Ophelia. This pointy eared and neatly pony tailed hotty has my attention because she is willing play with Ken.. er I mean Raki, without any formal invitation. I was so hoping he would be taken care of in this episode for an early exit, but as I've feared, this horribly voiced character has some major role to play in this show. Hence, will have to endure the voice of the horrible VA behind this pathetic character.

http://content.imagesocket.com/thumbs/claymore_120df.jpg (http://imagesocket.com/view/claymore_120df.jpg)

The awaken being who had her head misplaced as it fell to the ground when it should have been attached to that long extended neck, seems to think that Ophelia is the true monster. How else can it be explained why a Claymore who has her neck twisted to 180 degree, still comes back to relocate a awaken being's head? That delicious off-camera munching sound has me speculating that Ophelia gets her unusual power by feasting on the delectable slices of awaken being's head.

Preview for episode 13 promises more ass-kicking of Clare. Poor girl. Hasn't she suffered enough? I mean, she had to endure kissing Raki in the lips. :upset:

dutchman

2007-06-20, 00:53

Wow, no wonder Miria developed her Phantom speed - to get away from Psycho's grabby hands. :heh: Although they could have animated the Clare/Raki scene a bit better at the end... -.-

So, who those who have watched the ep and to those who will watch it soon enough. Who is more of a monster here - Priscilla or Ophelia? As if this question wasn't going to pop up eventually...

Thats difficult to say since Priscilla killed Teresa!! And I find her a bit self righteous. But on the other hand Ophelia is just plain sick and enjoys torturing people and she kills the people (normal humans) just as easy as the yoma she encounters.

So I find Ophelia the bigger monster.

akimoko

2007-06-20, 01:04

i've enjoyed the anime alot so far, this episodes looks to be very great, does anyone have any idea of when the subbed episode will be ready? i can't wait to see it haha.

as for the ophellia and priscilla debate, i would definitely say ophellia is the monster because priscilla transformed into a awakened one because of her sense of justice.

hollywoodlou

2007-06-20, 01:09

I kinda dig Ophelia's character. Every story has got to have a crazy character that 's off the charts, and Ophelia fits that mold.

priscilla on the other hand, is not difficult to read. It's: eat humans, think of ways on how to screw the claymores..then reverse.

wpninja

2007-06-20, 01:42

Did this episode end up showing everything that happened in those chapters from the Manga?

cyoti

2007-06-20, 01:53

No more Raki. :D

migs.

2007-06-20, 03:32

Did eclipse released the subbed ep 12?

I'm looking forward on seeing the animated Ophelia

EasyPrey

2007-06-20, 03:34

Time for everyone to see how girls with ponytails play with barbie dolls. Fortunately Clare brought her live action Ken doll and she's playing house. :D

Okay I admit, I may have been slightly of in my prediction. :)

He at least, we got to see Opelia play with her "dolls". ;)

-----------------

Therefore it is time for my next prediction.

There was an episode of Seinfeld, where two girls were fighting. Seinfeld did not want their fight interrupted because when two good looking girls are fighting, there is a possibility that they will stop fighting and start kissing each other!

Here is what we know:

1) Ophelia has a ponytail.

2) Ophelia and Clare are fighting.

3) From the raw, it appears that Ophelia is already fondling Clare's breasts. :p Damn, Ophelia already moved to the second base! ;)

3) There is always a possibility that when two decent looking women are fighting, they will stop fighting and start kissing each other. ;)

Therefore, I am willing to go out on a limb and predict that Clare and Ophelia will stop fighting and start kissing each other in the next episode!

That is my theory anyway. :)

-EasyPrey

Mentar

2007-06-20, 03:38

Did eclipse released the subbed ep 12?

O_o

Asking that 13 hours after airing and 7 hours after raw availability is a LITTLE bit excessive, don't you think?

My my my...

Anyway, again a solid 8, and that for one of those episode I knew I'd like least. Again, Madhouse made a few minimal adjustments compared to the manga to smooth things out and make it flow better. Well done!

Fenrir_valindri

2007-06-20, 03:43

Only thing I do not like so far is the fact they made a certain "scene" alot more romantic then it was in the Manga, looks kinda out of place. Raki hate will also explode to unimaginable levels.

ritalman

2007-06-20, 03:46

Ophelia makes me think of a Claymore Cammy, so it's quite sold in my book. I'd have prefered her on the good side but well...

NoSanninWa

2007-06-20, 04:34

Therefore it is time for my next prediction.

There was an episode of Seinfeld, where two girls were fighting. Seinfeld did not want their fight interrupted because when two good looking girls are fighting, there is a possibility that they will stop fighting and start kissing each other!

Here is what we know:

1) Ophelia has a ponytail.

2) Ophelia and Clare are fighting.

3) From the raw, it appears that Ophelia is already fondling Clare's breasts. :p Damn, Ophelia already moved to the second base! ;)

3) There is always a possibility that when two decent looking women are fighting, they will stop fighting and start kissing each other. ;)

Therefore, I am willing to go out on a limb and predict that Clare and Ophelia will stop fighting and start kissing each other in the next episode!

That is my theory anyway. :)

-EasyPrey
That's the second time you've pointed out her ponytail. I'm going to go out on a limb here and deduce that you are fond of girls with pony tails. ;) Considering how common yuri is in anime I think that this prediction is more likely than the last one.

Only thing I do not like so far is the fact they made a certain "scene" alot more romantic then it was in the Manga, looks kinda out of place. Raki hate will also explode to unimaginable levels.It looked pretty romantic in the manga. I was shocked. Until that kiss I was thinking Raki was like a little brother to her. Then came "The Kiss" and there was no way you kiss your brother like that. Is it really hotter than the one I saw in the manga? Wow.

Defiled one

2007-06-20, 04:49

Helen wise words comes to my mind.

Fenrir_valindri

2007-06-20, 04:49

It looked pretty romantic in the manga. I was shocked. Until that kiss I was thinking Raki was like a little brother to her. Then came "The Kiss" and there was no way you kiss your brother like that. Is it really hotter than the one I saw in the manga? Wow.

I would rate the one in the Manga as a chaste kiss, the one in the anime I would rate as a cover the children's eyes! kiss. :p

Nightengale

2007-06-20, 04:54

I would rate the one in the Manga as a chaste kiss, the one in the anime I would rate as a cover the children's eyes! kiss. :p

Exactly.

Clare was throwing Raki the "prostitute" look. That didn't happen in the manga! :heh:

dxanato

2007-06-20, 05:10

When I saw it in the Manga I was shock but the statement she make later own about "looking for some one she care for" made the kiss more appropriate i though. I will agree that the kiss is a bit more than what manga show but I guess in the anime they had more time to make romantic. It make the promise to find him all the more important for Clare.

Defiled one

2007-06-20, 05:17

I think it fitted perfectly Clare emotions. Yeah, I have nothing against it except..JEALOUSY!!:heh:

Now it just keeps getting better and better.

superzombie23

2007-06-20, 05:33

Exactly.

Clare was throwing Raki the "prostitute" look. That didn't happen in the manga! :heh:

That's hilarious.

Joka

2007-06-20, 05:44

First of all Ophelia is somebody I would hire for my daycare business.

Second you Raki haters saw how much the poor bastard took. It isn't easy to not scream when you get things like that done to you.

Third I was really surprised that Claymores can reattach limbs. Their regenerative powers are A LOT more than I thought they were.

Is this where Raki and Clare separate and Raki meets that certain somebody that is freaky like Ophelia?

t3ck

2007-06-20, 05:46

The sound effect and the animation doesn't seems so good in this episode. The producer doesn't like Ophelia. She isn't animated as good as Galatea.

Anh_Minh

2007-06-20, 05:52

Third I was really surprised that Claymores can reattach limbs. Their regenerative powers are A LOT more than I thought they were.

Eh? I think regrowing limbs like Deneve is a lot more impressive. After all, we can reattach our limbs, with surgery.

Defiled one

2007-06-20, 05:57

What about the awakened, now thats a nasty mouth.

SimplyEd

2007-06-20, 06:27

The sound effect and the animation doesn't seems so good in this episode. The producer doesn't like Ophelia. She isn't animated as good as Galatea.

I'm sure they are doing the best they are monetarily able right now.

As for THE KISS: People, don't get so excited over such trivial things. It's just a kiss. The little twerp wouldn't have left her without that lasting impression.

EasyPrey

2007-06-20, 06:47

I agree, the kiss is not that big of a deal.

Ophellia fondling Clare's breasts, now that is a big deal. My Japanese is not too good, but I think Ophelia thinks that Clare tastes like chicken. :confused:

Anyway, I will wait for the subs to figure out why Clare tastes like chicken.

-EasyPrey

Kodea

2007-06-20, 06:51

I'm sure they are doing the best they are monetarily able right now.

And I am not :( What happend to their faces? Why have they changed the style? Honestly I'm a little bit disappointed.

Kouvley

2007-06-20, 06:57

Some thoughts after watching the raw.

Artwork was a bit inconsistant this ep, especially the way Clare and Ophelia's faces were drawn.

Did Ophelia get caught and have her neck snapped on purpose? If so, then she took a bit of a gamble there, the awakened being could easliy have torn off her head instead.:heh:

The kiss reminded me of a similar scene from The End of Eva.

Edit: Sub is out! Thank you Eclipse :)

toxic_trance

2007-06-20, 07:12

subs are out ^_^..FINALLY

ashe

2007-06-20, 07:16

...................joy!

Asai

2007-06-20, 07:54

Great episode. Showing Raki actually being vaguely (okay incredibly vaguely) useful was a nice touch. Clare rules as always. Ophelia is scary. ;.;

Can't wait for more. ^^

Rhyel

2007-06-20, 08:09

Remember:

1) Awakening one get a lot of extasy.

2) Clare is always hiding your Emotions.

On that situation (kiss), all Clare emotions get the surface. :eyespin:

PS: Sorry my english.

Goofus Maximus

2007-06-20, 08:16

I knew I should have stayed away from the manga! It really does take away from the anime viewing... The tone of this episode just didn't feel right as a result.

The Awakened One had class, right to the very end!

Edit: I think we needed a "What the..." rating for the vote...

Gavrielo

2007-06-20, 08:20

Great episode. Showing Raki actually being vaguely (okay incredibly vaguely) useful was a nice touch. Clare rules as always. Ophelia is scary. ;.;

Can't wait for more. ^^

Lol Raki reminds me of Frodo Baggins, the most useless character of all history. Although I'm not really a big LOTR fan, I hope Raki does more stuff too, 'cause no one likes a useless hobbit. Well I detest em >_> and I really hated the LOTR plot, it just dragged on and on, trying to milk the fans of their precious money.

Wosho128

2007-06-20, 08:46

This episode was amazing. I've never felt like more of a fanboy than this moment. Remember, I'm not a manga reader so this is all fresh to me. When Clare's body parts started to come off, I was shouting profanity. The suspense of Ophelia's game was killing me. I kept asking myself: "How the hell is Raki going to survive this?" This episode really toyed with my emotions and made me stare viciously at the screen for 20 minutes.

Ophelia was no joke; her sadism was disturbing but funny. She throws Raki to the Awakening Being after playing on the collective feelings of Clare. And the kiss at the end; I can't even guess what that meant. Their relationship reminded me of siblings but that exchange looked like it was between two lovers.

And I'm also wondering if Raki is out of the picture for awhile? It seemed like he was starting some epic quest to attain strength, lol.

Aw man! This is great! I'm not going to read spoilers as I love the suspense!

Edit: I was indifferent towards Raki from the start but he's one of my favorite characters now.

Defiled one

2007-06-20, 08:53

Well, I really liked Raki in this episode, even though he didn`t helped at all.

He had this awesome mood like "THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE HIGHLANDER!!:mad:" style. An I just went OWO and I was like OWO also when he fought I went :twitch:

Negativedark

2007-06-20, 09:06

Well lets face it, this has been a shining moment for Raki. He was fighting an opponent he stood no chance against, and kept from crying out via sheer willpower, because he did not want to distract Claire. That's kinda cool. As for the kiss, remember, Claire has hardly had a normal life. Quite frankly Raki is the only male Claire has been close to emotonally since she was a little girl. Granted prior to the kiss I also thought the relationship was of a sibling nature. But I guess not. Anyways don't be jelous of Raki's releationship with Claire. There's still 45 avalible Claymores. I'm not counting Ophelia, because that's a little to dangerous, but I suppose you could try.

Wosho128

2007-06-20, 09:10

Anyways don't be jelous of Raki's releationship with Claire. There's still 45 avalible Claymores. I'm not counting Ophelia, because that's a little to dangerous, but I suppose you could try.

That made me laugh. It seems that fans around here treat Claymores like idols. =P (/End generic post made by me.)

Squawks

2007-06-20, 09:36

Well, they really did a good job on Miss Psycho, a-yep. 'Twas a neat episode and see? Raki can be useful. :)

GriS

2007-06-20, 09:43

a kiss :o plus, clare seems like she is trying to seduce Raki (the face after kiss)
and raki faces clare's breasts when they are planning to escape...

but... disappointedly, raki show no sign of affection in these scenes +_+

can't wait to see the outcome of the elf x clare battle

pomps

2007-06-20, 09:47

I've never liked Raki from the start, maybe because of his voice, but man, I hate him now. I don't like weak guys who act recklessly because they think it's ok as long as they don't scare of death, that's very selfish in my opinion, they should at least think of those who care for them. From the beginning of the episode, Clare told Raki to stay behind, but he followed her anyway, and made the situation worse. Afterall his presence in the middle of a battles between Clare and the monsters (Ophelia, the Awakened One) just minimized the chance of survival for both of them.
And while being chased by Ophelia, he insisted to stick with Clare no matter what, that really got on my nerve that I seriously wanted to kick his ass. Even made me think Clare kissed him just to shut him up. She was trained to make that prostitude look, right? :D

superzombie23

2007-06-20, 09:48

Squawks

2007-06-20, 09:58

@Above;

To be fair, it will never get the way you want it. I understand what you mean, but seriously, they did a awesome job and you're just nitpicking. The holy shit face is reasonable, I bet you would look like that if someone groped you at your private parts, especially someone of the same sex. I think they wanted to show that Raki can put up a fight and giving Ophelia emotion depths out her character, she was laughing and joking, that was so fitting. However, they shouldn't have made Clare look the way she did after the kiss, that was indeed scary.

Gavrielo

2007-06-20, 10:04

Maybe they intended to make Clare look scary for a reason?

Maybe to percieve that her awakened state is slowly taking part of her. This is just speculation though, I havn't read the manga.

darlliu

2007-06-20, 10:12

Oh,despite whatever brave actions raki has done(which wont help at all),I just want him dead,or at the very least,gone,which is the case now.
Cool!fresh air blue sky now.
Anyways,forget my feelings,Ophelia's voice actress did a good job,but I have to say after reading the manga I couldnt agree with the way the anime show certain things.

da-xia

2007-06-20, 10:30

Lol Raki reminds me of Frodo Baggins, the most useless character of all history. Although I'm not really a big LOTR fan, I hope Raki does more stuff too, 'cause no one likes a useless hobbit. Well I detest em >_> and I really hated the LOTR plot, it just dragged on and on, trying to milk the fans of their precious money.

he reminds me of shirou in fate/stay night.. how he was the same and wanted to protect saber but really couldnt do a damn thing.. at least earlier in the series.. ;)

Deathkillz

2007-06-20, 10:37

Ophelia is really really scary...so she enjoys killing just for the thrill of seeing someone struggle in fear...i was seriously WTFBBQ when i saw clare's legs separating from her body (oh and her sexual groping beforehand :naughty:) ...and she just took care of such a powerful awakened so effortlessly...next ep is going to rock my world ;)

and the kiss was oh so sweet! ^.^

Rhyel

2007-06-20, 10:44

Remember ep. number 3?

Perhaps it made that expression for Raki follow the order. :confused:

ps: Sorry my english

monir

2007-06-20, 10:44

Ophellia fondling Clare's breasts, now that is a big deal.

-EasyPrey
Watching my share of anime where breast fondling is done regularly as the way of common greeting, (see Ai Yori Aoshi) I would say Ophelia wasn't fondling Clare's breast just because Ophelia has put her hand inside of Clare's blouse. There was hardly any hand movement that could be seen over the garment of Clare's blouse to indicate her breasts were being fondled. If anything was fondled, it was Clare's lung. Ophelia's blood soaked finger tips would indicate that. The way Ophelia chose to lick that blood off from her finger.... well, that's another subject of discussion.

Breast fondling is such an important topic, that I storngly felt I must contribute somehow.

superzombie23

2007-06-20, 11:00

@Above;
The holy shit face is reasonable, I bet you would look like that if someone groped you at your private parts, especially someone of the same sex.

I meant to say before Ophelia even grabbed Claire and appeared behind her back. You can see the Hellsing and Berserk art elements I was talking about that weren't visible in the anime in the picture below. Claire's face was completely different as was Ophelia's.
http://www.onemanga.com/media/mangas/00000045/00000031/24-25.jpg

This picture shows Ophelia's emotionless face I was talking about. They didn't even show her face while she was saying "THERE" in the anime. I was seriously dissapointed...I was really looking forward to that scene animated the right way because it really shows Ophelia's sadistic side, but they just spin the camera around Raki -_- with some freeze frames of Ophelia swinging her sword.
http://www.onemanga.com/media/mangas/00000045/00000032/17.jpg

So now you see why some posters aren't liking this episode b/c of the way it was animated.

orion

2007-06-20, 11:02

Yeah, that wasn't groping. It was the fastest way to get to a blood vessel and restraining Claire without killing her first imo.

Ophelia looks really psycho/sadistic in this episode imo. Do we ever find out who that Awakened One was?

This was another setup to kill off Claire imo.

zato_1one

2007-06-20, 11:22

I have a mix feeling watching this Ep. - -"

I prefer how anime deviate from manga when Clare told Raki to stay in the forest instead of took him with her. It makes more sense because Clare shouldn't carelessly taking her boy to battlefield. I prefer this path more than in manga though.

But unfortunately, that could make Raki looked so stubborn for insisting to follow Clare. If Raki didn't interfere when Ophelia molested Clare. :heh: Clare might find a good excuse for herself and the situation might not be bad like that. But well, who knows what will happen if Raki didn't come. :eyespin:

One other thing, I felt they did a very good job to show Raki determination. It convinced me to believe that he truly want to be strong and help protect Clare. In manga, I didn't feel like this at all. I felt he just a side character until... You know what I mean right? ;)

And for Ophelia, my only complain is that she looks cuter and younger in manga. :D But it's not a big deal. She's still hot because she's elf. :heh:

And... that KISS scene. :twitch: To tell the truth, I don't fond of this path in manga. It's kind of meh to me. :uhoh: I was stunned because it looked so suddenly. Just whisper to myself, WT... are you doing Clare!!! I thought she might only want to shut him up. But in later chapter... Fear to be banned so I just want to say that I think the relation between Clare and Raki now is not just sister and brother anymore. Both in manga and anime.

In anime, Clare looked so scary to me. >< Clare, are you a shota-con? I understood that Raki attitude could make your heart uneasy. But Hey! He's just a kid you know!!! :eyespin:

This episode left me so much mixing feeling. I don't even sure how to rate it. :confused:

TinyRedLeaf

2007-06-20, 11:39

I just watched the episode. I think i'm so critical right now b/c I just read the manga version of this episode last night for the 2nd time (read it a couple months ago), since I was hyped about this episode with Ophelia. I would give it an 8/10 b/c it did not meet my expectations from what I got from the manga.

I have a mix feeling watching this Ep. - -"

*SIGH*

I empathise with you guys. I give this episode a solid 6. It just doesn't gel. Poorly drawn faces (again!). Mis-expressed emotions (Clare kisses Raki because she was moved by his determination, not because she was overwhelmed by shota sensibilities -.-*). Action so lame, BGM so singularly unimpressive, that I could have slept through the episode.

I repeat my reservations from Episode 10 -- this director has very little talent for staging action scenes. Instead of fast-paced, blood-thumping action, I get by-the-book, walking-through-motion direction. At no point in this episode did I feel as inspired as I did in the manga. *haiz* (see the above screenshots of the manga scenes -- and feel your heart sink in the vast disparities between manga and anime...)

I don't know what else to say. I know there are bound to be people who would accuse me of not giving the anime a fair chance, because I've already read the manga. Seriously though, me reading the manga beforehand has very little to do with how disappointed I feel right now. :(

Let me put it this way, if I were a pure-anime viewer watching Claymore up till now, I would be dropping the series after this episode -- let alone be intrigued enough to catch up with the manga to see what else I'm actually missing.

Oh well, I'm glad this episode still managed to get its fair share of fans. Ophelia is a great character -- she deserves the attention if nothing else.

superzombie23

2007-06-20, 11:43

*SIGH*
Mis-expressed emotions (Clare kisses Raki because she was moved by his determination, not because she was overwhelmed by shota sensibilities -.-*).

That scene made Claire such a shota-pervert :frustrated: (Edit: I don't care about the kiss, it's just out of character the way she kissed.) The anime version of that scene makes her so out of character like she's gonna sex him up in the future or something.

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/9779/snapshot20070620125428rw2.png
:upset:
http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/1439/snapshot20070620125503zs0.png

Majek

2007-06-20, 11:52

Ophelia looks really psycho/sadistic in this episode imo. Do we ever find out who that Awakened One was?.
Nope. Just some random awakened.

Man i hate character with peronatilites like Ophelia's but i love to see them suffer afterwards. ( yeah yea h i know XD )

And i liked the kiss because i never saw their relationship as sister/brother and there's not such thing being to young for a relationship in medival type fantasy worlds.

stormy001_M1A2

2007-06-20, 11:52

What is wrong with Claire having eros love with Raki? She did not age, nor she going to have a normal relationships. So she showed affection for him and this stage of heightened crisis, blossomed into love. Perfectly human emotion, afterall both of them shared a common tragedy that gets them closer. People are more vulnerable to drastic emotional outburst in life/death situation.

And like it or not, she fell in love with him. Shota or not. Raki will grow up and Claire will not age at all, looks wise.

As long they both happy with each other and wants to be lovers, why not?

SimplyEd

2007-06-20, 11:53

superzombie23

2007-06-20, 12:03

I'm beginning to realize that people around here are not so much upset that there's a kissing scene in this episode, they are upset because it's a kiss between an "adult"and a "minor".

This is so ridiculously pointless, i can't even find words to express my speechlessness.

Raki made an effort, seized his prize and now he's up, up and away. End of story.

I don't care about the kiss. I care about the fact she looks horny which seems so out of character (compared to the manga where she has a very serious face). She's supposed to be serious about their safety.

Tempest35

2007-06-20, 12:05

Considering what Raki went through prior to getting that kiss, I can't hate him for that. Boy tried the hardest he could at the time - let the little man be. And as for an adult vs a minor - the 'adult' won't age a bit, but the little youngin will so in about oh say...4+3 YEARS, it will be a moot point.

I think Clare's got just a wee bit more to worry about other than child services coming after her for doing 'stuff' with minors.

SimplyEd

2007-06-20, 12:10

I don't care about the kiss. I care about the fact she looks horny which seems so out of character (compared to the manga where she has a very serious face). She's supposed to be serious about their safety.

Oh, and she isn't allowed to show a more tender side? This is supposed to be a lasting,sweet memory for him. I don't see her being "horny" there, sorry. Maybe it's more along the lines of make-believe.

Seriously, there are more noteworthy things happening all over the episode. I admit that the kissing scene didn't fit in the anime and in the manga, but it's just a kiss. No sweat.

orion

2007-06-20, 12:14

Oh well, it is what it is. A kiss on the lips between an adult and a minor. If Raki was 16, no one would have cared. But he ain't. :heh: And now Claire is a shotacon. ;) :heh:

So, Raki now has incentive to become stronger. Claire fans can now be teased. Good times for all imo. ;)

But, Teresa remains a saint. :)

Defiled one

2007-06-20, 12:17

I agree with SimplyEd. People are overreacting the kiss because of the age difference. Well, you know what? It`s a medieval time, age or morarality can fall from a cliff for all I care.
Besides, Clare face was very well done even though the budget seemed average.

HELL!! I am quite happy with this. Finaly I can say that Clare is not a saint, quite the opposite I might add. And please,:rolleyes: lets not talk about Teresa and all Claymores in general.

They are women, all of them have needs and Helen was not joking when she bullied Clare. Claymores are known to be Silver Eyed Witches..Of course people have to be carefull. The golden rule is not killing humans. But it doesn´t stop them from atacking a human in the woods. if you get what I´m saying.

Of course that is my opinion. The kiss was just to make him quiet....

SimplyEd

2007-06-20, 12:24

The kiss was just to make him quiet....

.. and then it was as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced..only to come to this thread to cry out "shouta-con" again... :D

superzombie23

2007-06-20, 12:25

I guess I wouldn't be serious about it if he was older, even though I don't really care about the age difference, just the difference of Claire's personality. I guess I'm used to Claire's pervert face now -_-... it just scared me at first, that's all.

orion

2007-06-20, 12:26

But it's hardly a defense for what happened Defiled_one. A forehead kiss, a slap on the face, shaking him are methods to bring a guy to his senses. Not a full kiss on the lips with those dreamy eyes imo.

Dragging down the others without animation proof of past deeds of the others... ;) :heh: :joke:

Mentar

2007-06-20, 12:28

da-xia

2007-06-20, 12:31

who do you think the warrior from the past is in the preview for episode 13? any speculations? anyone we met before or someone new?

edit: nvm i think ive figured it out >_<

Fenrir_valindri

2007-06-20, 12:33

Joka

2007-06-20, 12:37

Guys you got to give Raki some points. He didn't cry after having the shit sliced out of him.

orion

2007-06-20, 12:41

I'll give Raki some points when he no longer acts like Shirou. :)

SimplyEd

2007-06-20, 12:41

Well, it can't be helped. Of course it would be great if the whole series had a quality standard like the "Marked for Death" remembrance, but stuff like that is a fund killer.

They have to make omissions here and there or else they'd blow the budget, and that would be a serious crippling strike to quality that probably noone around here would like to see.

Let them spend their money on the very important scenes and don't look out for mediocre scenes so much. Just enjoy it as best as you can.

orange-kun

2007-06-20, 12:46

i think because of this whole "i have to protect Claire" thing raki is going to become a male claymore somehow

Revolutionist

2007-06-20, 13:01

I give this episode 9/10. It was very well done and the last scene was omgwtf inducing lol. Never expected Clare to kiss Raki but that was alright.

Now Clare has someone who loves her and she has someone to love.

Here's to hoping Raki grows up to be a bad ass in the future :)

TinyRedLeaf

2007-06-20, 13:03

I want to respectfully make the point that many people in this thread are much more whiny and annoying than Raki ever was.

And also, it's notable that most of these exceptionally whiny people are the very same who complain about Raki's alleged whininess.

Straaaaaange, isn't it :)

*shakes head*

Also - people, would you kindly stop stomping on the ground simply because a scene in the anime is slightly different from the manga?

If you logically think things through, almost always the anime version makes more sense.

The anime is the anime. If it's doing things differently from the manga, then that's the way it is. Keep an open mind and use your braincells to adapt. Yes, both of them! Complain if what the anime shows makes no sense, but please make a decent case at least.

Seriously... my my my.

I'm offended by that blanket characterisation. :rolleyes:

I'm no fool -- this is a forum dedicated to posters who already unreservedly love both the anime and the manga after all. I'm not so naive as to not expect lots of boos and rotten tomatoes for daring to express anything other than glowing admiration.

If you're referring to my posts as being "whiny", I would also respectfully request that you read what I've pointed out -- it would have made no difference whether I've read the manga in advance. Even if the anime were all I knew, I would still have been singularly disappointed by this episode -- it just feels all wrong. It's an action-packed episode, but I get uninspired plodding instead. If I'm not a fan of the manga already, this would be it for me, anime-Claymore wise.

I, for one, don't mind the variations early in the episode at all -- I felt the director made very good calls in fact (namely the scene where Clare ordered Raki to stay put and wait for her). But mauled faces and horribly mis-expressed emotions aren't directoral calls, I suspect (if it were, the director is worse than incompetent). It's really more a case of poor quality control.

Well, it can't be helped. Of course it would be great if the whole series had a quality standard like the "Marked for Death" remembrance, but stuff like that is a fund killer.

They have to make omissions here and there or else they'd blow the budget, and that would be a serious crippling strike to quality that probably noone around here would like to see.

No, sorry. The need for budget control is a poor excuse for low quality control. Heck, I was a fan of Bleach and Naruto you know. I wouldn't call the animation in those animes top film quality, but the action, ah the action, it's still superb, regardless of poor art. And I don't even read Bleach and Naruto mangas -- the anime were good enough for me.

In anime-Claymore's case, unfortunately, it takes my appreciation of the manga to even want to continue watching the anime anymore. Why, you ask? Well, because occassional gems like Episode 9 and 11 still turn up, that's why.

zato_1one

2007-06-20, 13:04

Let me put it this way, if I were a pure-anime viewer watching Claymore up till now, I would be dropping the series after this episode -- let alone be intrigued enough to catch up with the manga to see what else I'm actually missing.
No way for me. Because next episode preview will make me more excite and want to see it for sure. :D And how can I abandon my Galatea. >< Just see her standing or walking is not enough. :p

Well, I believe now that Clare can make her face like a prostitute. :heh:

Still don't like her face (looks too hot :eyespin:) but I admit that the reason for Clare to kiss Raki in anime is more clearer than in manga.

Edit:

But apart from that scene, I thought it's still great episode though.

Woh! about Bleach anime... My opinion is completely different. If I'm not read manga, I will drop it for sure.

silix

2007-06-20, 13:15

As much as the mood of the kiss scene was changed, my major complaint of the episode was the expressions basically being mauled by a large dog :p

Where were Clare's cries of concern, Ophelia is one of the more expressionable characters in this series yet they kept her just short of being as stone faced as Deneve. They even clipped out most of the fight scene between Ophelia and the Awakened One!

The animation quality also jumped around alot in this episode, not the the point were it was horrible, but still annoying.

It is not that I did not like the episode, I was just disappointed in some of the anime producer's choices.agree

the impression i have had from this episode is as if some scenes (better, some of Ophelia's facial designs ) were drawn and animated by someone not accustomed with the overall character design - if this is the case, i hope it to be an issue affecting just this episode

but since several positive assets can also be found i'll consider how this ep subtly proves that elves are bound to a pale complexion - or the fact it still has some really beautiful landscapes (as usual) and... seagulls ( perhaps some don't pay attention to the fact, but actually our heroine has walked a lot :p)
Well, I believe now that Clare can make her face like a prostitute. :heh:me too... problem is, she said she was trained to fake being a prostitute if necessary, but she really didnt need to fake in that scene - this leads to think that... :uhoh:

Defiled one

2007-06-20, 13:27

OWA! calm the horses :heh:. We really don´t want to know about Clare`s experienced past. :naughty:

SimplyEd

2007-06-20, 13:31

No, sorry. The need for budget control is a poor excuse for low quality control.

Well, nevertheless it is part of reality, even if people don't like it. There's virtually nothing we can do about it at this point and most certainly nothing we should be complaining about since we don't even have the slightest bit of involvement in these processes.

Funding is the single most important thing for any venture in the anime business. My take on this situation would be that the studio has already pulverized large deals of money on some of the more spectacular scenes earlier on and now they have to make ends meet and save more money for later episodes.

If you compare Claymore to other shows then we are most definately fed with some beautiful scenery, gorgeous animation for the most important scenes and overall with a steady quality on the whole picture (nevermind a funny facial expression every now and then, other shows with much better funding manage to do just the same).

To me, it seems like people have picked up a nasty habit of becoming nitpickers, arguing about every single difference from the manga. I read the manga too, yet i'm fully able to get the most enjoyment out of each episode and i don't find myself comparing every scene to every single manga panel.

I think it would be kinda advantageous to judge the anime more objective, rather than subjective and under the impression of the manga. That way, there'd already be much less exaggerated complaining going on around here.

Majek

2007-06-20, 13:44

me too... problem is, she said she was trained to fake being a prostitute if necessary, but she really didnt need to fake in that scene - this leads to think that... :uhoh:
bah this is just an excuse for those who don't want any romance between the two.

bkg9990

2007-06-20, 13:46

Im so happy Raki is out of the story at the moment xD

silix

2007-06-20, 13:57

bah this is just an excuse for those who don't want any romance between the two.perhaps you got me wrong - i'm not among those hating raki ( on the contrary ) and i like the story also because of that "i'll live to see you again" relationship between the two, and i considered the kiss extremely appropriate to the context (to the point of not being surprised... i was expecting something like that), when i read this part, in the manga...

i just dont like how that feeling was transposed on screen and the aesthetics of her facial expression in that moment, that's all :rolleyes:

Deathkillz

2007-06-20, 13:57

i duno why some people are getting annoyed at the kissing scene as i thought it was one of the highlights for me in the ep :) clare is showing more human like emotions which is always a good thing in my books ~ and kiss raki was a way to show how much he meaned to her...very sweet imo ^.^

Majek

2007-06-20, 14:05

perhaps you got me wrong - i'm not among those hating raki ( on the contrary ) and i like the story also because of that "i'll live to see you again" relationship between the two, and i considered the kiss extremely appropriate to the context (to the point of not being surprised... i was expecting something like that), when i read this part, in the manga...

i just dont like how that feeling was transposed on screen and the aesthetics of her facial expression in that moment, that's all :rolleyes:
no that wasn't directed at you, it was more like anyone can use that now (in it's form in anime) when they want to start arguing how there's no romance.

silix

2007-06-20, 14:11

no that wasn't directed at you <cut>np ;)

btw : i thought i had seen an (offensive towards a moderator) post right before mine and was going to report... probably just "an illusion" :twitch:

toxic_trance

2007-06-20, 14:16

ah..a nice 8 for this episode...would have got a 9 if it ahd a good character design. The character design definitely was off in many places, and i was more dissappointed because this happened when a new character like Ophelia was introduced. Ophelia looked really pale, although the image was portrayed well, the design was weak compared to the manga.

Clare too seemed off in some places..

Neway,.the seperation finally took place..saddening but this episode sparks off a series of mysteries and makes the Claymore Plot more awesome..so i m crossing my fingers and waiting for more of Clare and Ophelia goodness
^_^

Anh_Minh

2007-06-20, 14:26

Hm. If I had to tack an adjective to that kissing scene, it would be "sinister". Clare definitely looked evil in that scene.

I wonder what the intent of the author was, with that kiss. Claymore's setting is sort of European, and from what I gleaned in anime and manga, the Japanese seem to think kissing in Europe isn't a big deal. (I live in Europe, and we don't kiss each other on the lips at the drop of a hat, though we're certainly more casual about it than anime characters. But then, I'd guess RL Japanese are more casual than anime characters, too. Am I wrong?)

In the manga (yeah, sorry, I have to get the comparison off my chest. You don't have to read on.), I didn't particularly dislike the scene. I thought it fit the atmosphere of parting ways, uncertain they'll meet again, but determined to.

In the anime, Clare's expression put me off. I mostly wondered if she had some grand scheme to Conquer the World(tm).

Tempest35

2007-06-20, 14:27

Anyway, this just proves that the standard Shounen Series Hacks do not work in Claymore as Raki's ineffectiveness attests to. Poor lad, still a Windows user.

Seriously, in regards to the ep, it pretty much shows what a monster Ophelia truly is. She can take out Awakened Beings by herself but truthfully, this was more of a fluke than Ophelia being 'insanely strong'. The Zerg Queen was incredibly stupid here. At least the Male Awakened knew how to render someone ineffective for the rest of the fight (hey, he DID put down Helen and Deneve). This little child just twisted the neck, no blood loss to deal with, no need to regenerate limbs...nada. Very stupid for an Awakened Being. Granted, it was a child... She must have had little battle experience so why did this little loli become a Awakened One? I swear, the ratio of the Org's loli population coming out messed up is incredibly high. Someone call the Federal Bureau of Better Buisness...

As for Clare's side - it's kinda hard to defend yourself against a psycho like that so getting cut up can slide. I will not touch the kissing scene with a mile long pole since it will eventually be beaten to death with many beating shticks. Only fault I can find is that Clare was a little too into Raki as soon as he appeared on the scene - all her focus went into him. But at that point, telling him to run away in front of Ophelia is like putting a mouse in front of a cat and not expecting it to chase it down.

Raki needs to update his haxx0r software fast so he can access his Shounen Hacks. He even initiated one of the Shounen mainstay hax but all he got was the Blue Screen and a big 'Fail'.

Although, even if they (Clare & Raki) did get away, The Org probably sees Ophelia as a type of Cleaner. Just as they used the Male Awakened to mop up their problem kids, Ophelia also takes care of them, probably in exchange for not busting her butt over killing a few humans every now and then. So them telling on Ophelia will just make them her targets. They'd probably kill Ophelia eventually, but not after Ophelia annhilates them. :heh:
I'm positive that the Org knows about Ophelia's little habits but they turn the blind eye for her since she does such a wonderful job with keeping the lower ranks in line. The 'Boogeyman' of the Org.

Defiled one

2007-06-20, 14:32

Hm. If I had to tack an adjective to that kissing scene, it would be "sinister". Clare definitely looked evil in that scene.

I wonder what the intent of the author was, with that kiss. Claymore's setting is sort of European, and from what I gleaned in anime and manga, the Japanese seem to think kissing in Europe isn't a big deal. (I live in Europe, and we don't kiss each other on the lips at the drop of a hat, though we're certainly more casual about it than anime characters. But then, I'd guess RL Japanese are more casual than anime characters, too. Am I wrong?)

In the manga (yeah, sorry, I have to get the comparison out of my chest. You don't have to read on.), I didn't particularly dislike the scene. I thought it fit the atmosphere of parting ways, uncertain they'll meet again, but determined to.

In the anime, Clare's expression put me off. I mostly wondered if she had some grand scheme to Conquer the World(tm).

Well..I can´t say that the Japanese are wrong, infact they are right...:rolleyes: Oh believe me in that one, you have no idea..:rolleyes:

Anh_Minh

2007-06-20, 14:42

Drunken make outs don't count.

I don't deny that we Europeans kiss more easily than the Japanese. (I have, in fact, no idea how the Japanese view kissing. Sure, in shoujo, it's a big deal, but I've also heard that convincing random girls on the street to have sex on tape is an actual paying job and part of a thriving industry, so I don't know what to think.)

But I sure as hell don't use kisses on the lips as a greeting. ("bises", which kinda looks like kissing people on the cheeks but isn't, sure. Lips, OTOH, are off limits.) And I've only seen it rarely, and between family members.

edit: oh, yeah, and couples. Couples commonly use them too.

Defiled one

2007-06-20, 14:45

You have been spying haven´t you? :heh:

Yup, kissing in the mouth is only a greeting between close relatives, otherwise it will be considered a normal "lovers kiss". And I certainly didn´t ended with Clare`s face after kissing. :heh:

Kodea

2007-06-20, 14:49

and most certainly nothing we should be complaining about since we don't even have the slightest bit of involvement in these processes

Why can't we from time to time complain about plain managers work, when others complain without hesitation about even as arguable things as directors\art work? In a way you put it, there is no difference. :)

Lets just hope the next ep will avoid the same problems. Otherwise we'll have to adopt somehow...

Shiroth

2007-06-20, 15:18

Lots of attention directed to Clare's lips in the final scene --- thank you Madhouse.

Ophelia is insane, i didn't think she was going to be this crazy. I loved how 'Clare no more legs' scene happened out of no where.

The preview for next episode has me shivering, especially the 'friend from the past' mention. Oh how i can't wait.

v1cious

2007-06-20, 15:31

for some reason i chuckled when she chopped off Clare's legs. it was so evil.

Claymore_Obsessed

2007-06-20, 15:39

I somehow feel sad for that Awakened one. I mean, she had victory in her hands!... er, tentacles! Am I the only one?:heh:

I was surprised by Ofi's voice, I imagined she had a more maniacal voice...

yes there are some discrepancies from the manga, but I can't really blame MadHouse.
Having a perfect 1:1 copy is almost impossible, and I am already spoiled so I lost my first impression shock value...

Mandrake

2007-06-20, 15:49

Ugh..I played the kiss scene with Clare in my head, then I incedently looked at v1cious's avatar.

GAH!

SimplyEd

2007-06-20, 16:06

Why can't we from time to time complain about plain managers work, when others complain without hesitation about even as arguable things as directors\art work? In a way you put it, there is no difference. :)

Lets just hope the next ep will avoid the same problems. Otherwise we'll have to adopt somehow...

Well, because silly complaints are not really part of a discussion. They are discussion breakers and serve no other purpose than to state a biased, subjective conception that might not even hold a single bit of truth in it in 95% of all times. Besides, this kind of attitude might cloud the enjoyment of others who read about this stuff. Pointing out flaws is all well and good, but this should at least happen on an objective level, free from personal likes/dislikes.

I said this without any particular person in mind. And since this is a thread on a message board on the internet, this whole post was completely useless anyway. :D

Souten no Seigyoku

2007-06-20, 16:22

Yea whats up with that kissing scene? Did claire grow due to the claymore makign process, but stay a kid? In which case Id let it go, but otherwise....
Pedo-fem fatale?

The awakened being was dumb. ALWAYS make sure theyre dead. Geez.

Rowan

2007-06-20, 16:26

I thought the way they chose play the ending scene was interesting. In the manga, it always seemed more rushed to me, more desperate. You really got the sense Ophelia could come crashing down on them any second. The anime's version seemed a lot more tender. It made Clare and Raki's parting a lot more sad, since they had time to say good-bye. Both were good, they were just different takes.

The other thing is, maybe I just read the manga too darn fast and it just feels desperate and rushed to me.

There is just one thing that consistently bugs me about this series. Why did they use a Star Wars blaster noise for the Claymore 'power-up'?

R.

Deathkillz

2007-06-20, 16:39

In the anime, Clare's expression put me off. I mostly wondered if she had some grand scheme to Conquer the World(tm).
*sigh* added fanservice and the fans start to moan :p looking at the more human side it was a passionate kiss to tell raki that "hes going to get it 10 times better when he comes back so dont die" scheme...:uhoh: yes ive seen this somewhere before...

ItachiGT

2007-06-20, 16:50

OMFG.........why are you all so upset beacause of an kissing-scene?!:mad:

Perhaps you wished it was you who is kissed by Claire?....:rolleyes::heh:

Well that scen with Claire getting the legs chopped of, that was kinda disgusting!!! and very shocking.
Claire was very shocked too, since she did't show much pain......lol....... -.-

Lol, i wish i could be a half-yoma too!!

Then i don't care if someone cut my hands etc. off or even shoot at me^^...."sigh"....i wished so much that i have this regeneration-abilty^^.

monir

2007-06-20, 16:50

for some reason i chuckled when she chopped off Clare's legs. it was so evil.
Yeap! It reminded me of that joke where a man was beaten to death by his own left leg. Mercifully, Ophelia's sadism exceeds than those of a mere simpleton who would resort to beating someone with their own limbs after chopping them off.

cf18

2007-06-20, 17:04

OMFG.........why are you all so upset beacause of an kissing-scene?!:mad:
Perhaps you wished it was you who is kissed by Claire?....:rolleyes::heh:

Heh probably... Personally I love that scene.

Well that scen with Claire getting the legs chopped of, that was kinda disgusting!!! and very shocking.
Claire was very shocked too, since she did't show much pain......lol....... -.-

I wonder if she re-attach them correctly, left to left and right to right... Kind of hard to tell with the shoes on. :heh:

FlareKnight

2007-06-20, 17:20

Sometimes I'm glad that I just watch the anime, less things to be disappointed about. I enjoyed the episode and geeze Ophelia is one crazed fruit-loop. The kind of person you'd like to run from until you were on the other side of the planet. Not just dangerous but sadistic and really having fun with torturing others.

This show is great at making moments where I have to double take to understand what just happened. Be it what happened with Teresa, or Clare losing her legs. An incredibly effective way to take down your opponent. Pretty hard to fight without legs after all, plus Clare having to struggle and try to get them back on quickly.

I wouldn't say Ophelia is one of my favourite characters, but she's one unique person. A true monster that goes around and does whatever she wants. Completely against Teresa who the moment she did something wrong reported it, yet fought to stay alive. Ophelia just tortures and kills whoever she wants and makes sure there is no evidence left behind to say anything different. A monster that works for the organization. Probably this is yet another attempt to get rid of Clare. Knowing perfectly well what Ophelia would probably do.

The kiss was a bit strange to me but it wasn't all that bad. I guess the growth of their relationship is just going in another direction. Thought it was simply sibling thing but I guess this was bound to happen. Hopefully Raki will at least go out and get a bit stronger. Getting cut up and not crying out is admirable, but you need some skills to back it up.

Shiroth

2007-06-20, 17:25

The awakened being was dumb. ALWAYS make sure theyre dead. Geez.
If you see just after he neck has been twisted, her body completely stops as if she was killed. That pretty much counts for 'checking' i'd say.

I was pretty surprised by how huge the awakened being was this time around.

Anh_Minh

2007-06-20, 17:27

Nah. She should have known that what's lethal for a human isn't necessarily so for a Claymore - she used to be one herself. And any idiot can play dead.

Defiled one

2007-06-20, 17:29

I also realized that her head had to be destroyed in order for her, to be completly killed.
I wonder what can Priscilla sustain? Rubel says she is the meanest and most badass of them all....

Shiroth

2007-06-20, 17:31

I wonder what can Priscilla sustain?
Probably a meteor.

Deathkillz

2007-06-20, 17:33

so in other words Ophelia is just lucky to be alive after the awakened assumed that she died...fat luck isnt going to happen twice imo O.o

Anh_Minh

2007-06-20, 17:35

I don't think even Priscilla can survive having her head diced. The problem is convincing her to stay still while you do that.

redmeat

2007-06-20, 17:57

I think the kissing scene was pretty good. It's one of the gems that inspired me to continue reading the manga.

SeijiSensei

2007-06-20, 18:22

For some reason I'm ending up commenting on the sexual scenes :eyespin:

I thought Ophelia's fondling of Clare might have entered into that area on the Claymores' midriffs that we haven't been shown so far, especially after she brought out the bloody finger. Most of the scenes about the Claymores' midsections, especially the penetration scenes, have strong sexual overtones.

I thought the kiss as depicted seemed way out of character for Clare. Aftermath of her aroused yoma state? Sudden burst of emotion after a shared life-threatening experience? Whatever the reason, it just didn't seem right, both because of their ages, and because it seemed so unlike the measured Clare we've known.

I didn't read the manga, so I have no basis for comparison, and I don't really want to know if any of this speculation is refuted in later episodes.

BGM orchestration of Clare's entering into the village (Indian tabla + Scottish bagpipes) added a weird Kipling-esque feeling to the scene. I would have expected such music in a Merchant/Ivory/Jhabvala film about the Raj.

Gsus

2007-06-20, 18:30

"You must remember this
A kiss is still a kiss, a sigh is just a sigh.
The fundamental things apply
As time goes by..."

Well, anyway, back to the episode at hand.

20 minutes ago.
Hmm... Ophelia has a good side after all, after the grope from hell and all that slashing.
Ophelia: "Come on! We don't have time to be fighting each other, etc, etc!"
...
...
...
"NOT!"

Nelson: "HAHA!"

Mixed feelings: some of the character work seemed a bit off, probably most noticable in the infamous 'kiss' scene. And a slight deus ex machina where Clare suddenly goes Supergirl, with Raki in tow. Never seen that before from Clare. And you could argue that the short fight between Ophelia and the Awakened One was cut short for time / showing how strong single-digits are. But nice episode in general, showing Raki not that wimpy after all. Then again, whether he's strong enough to protect Clare...

Preview: I guess Ophelia has cost Clare a leg already (though temporarily), and Ophelia will come back for the arm. And... "Ripples that disturb the heart." Ripples, hmmm...

Going by the title, this is going to be another 3 part arc:
Part 2: Build-up, fight, plot, ending of part 2.
Part 3: End of the plot, fight, end of fight / end of opponent, plot resolves for this arc.
I have to stop watching these episodes episode by episode, the wait is killing me.

Lendial

2007-06-20, 18:45

does anyone else like raki alot more? standing up to blood gulping ophe. where did ophelia draw the blood? i dont think she stabbed or cut her.

i dont know how clare is going to win without a plot device.

EphemeralDream

2007-06-20, 19:00

so in other words Ophelia is just lucky to be alive after the awakened assumed that she died...fat luck isnt going to happen twice imo O.o

Well, considering Ophelia's overtly sadistic attitude (watch her lick her own blood) one has to assume that she let herself get into such a position for the mere excitement and enjoyment of carnage and torture. The thought of pain is a welcome concept to her and if the Awakened One can inflict more pain before the end, more power to Ophelia! :p

I have read the manga (up to the latest) and I have to say that Ophelia is possibly the only evil character in anime that I truly pity in the way one pities a blood-thirsty hound being euthanized because of a bad owner.

dxanato

2007-06-20, 19:13

Personally I don't see Raki been as awful as Shiro. This may the first episode I seen where Raki step up and get hurt. How many times did Shiro get beat down? Before he learn that he was not strong and he need to learn and become stronger. When Raki say she would protect Clare I taken to mean for her not to lose herself in her Yoki power. After all it was Raki who help Clare.

Twisted Reality

2007-06-20, 19:35

who do you think the warrior from the past is in the preview for episode 13? any speculations? anyone we met before or someone new?

edit: nvm i think ive figured it out >_<
It's Teresa.

Seriously...
---

Anyway, does anybody remember the scene from End of Evangelion where Misato gives Shinji an "adult kiss" before sending him up the elevator to his EVA to go save Asuka's butt?

So yeah...the Clare and Raki kiss reminds me of that. For the sake of comparison, the Raki-Clare manga kiss was less intimate than the Shinji-Misato kiss. In any case, they both had they "you come back to me alive" message.

I guess both characters were supposed to come back men?

Maybe Raki will go from this...
http://xs116.xs.to/xs116/07235/Raki2v2.png

To this?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/64/Berserk_Guts.jpg

Oh hey!...there's a slight resemblance there...
...ahhh...I will laugh myself silly if he comes back with a "rough pile of iron."

Nightbat®

2007-06-20, 19:45

Ah quite a controversial episode
At the beginning we have cute pointy eared Jeffrey Dahmer
and in the end we have Clare with an itch (I'm telling you: if she didn't send Raki on his way,
He would've died a happy boy, and Clare be out to lunch with Priscilla)

Though I admit, the most interesting part about this Ep was the awakened being
without much dialog I got a more 'familiar' feeling about her/it than Ophelia

after the previous 2 dialogheavy Eps I kind of wanted some more action and hoped this fight with the AB would last a little longer

basically, there are only 3 very short 'high points' in this ep
-Ophelia's introduction
-The demise of the AB by Ophelia
-Clare and Raki exchanging bodily fluids

unfortunatly, because of this I had the idea it was over within 5 minutes

Is ep #13 out already?:D

cors8

2007-06-20, 19:51

Animation seems kind of weird at times but it was still watchable.

Ophelia just didn't sound as crazy as I thought she'd be.

That whole Raki/Clare kiss thing was just weird. Since when did Clare develop lips like that?

Westlo

2007-06-20, 20:01

Gave it an 8 though the manga part of this I would rate a 10. Disappointed that they didn't nail Ophelias expressions, to me they're a big factor in how much I like her as a character.. THERE THERE THERE THERE with that manga expressions is hilarious in a sadistic way.

Also bemused they didn't animated 15-30 secs worth of the fight between Ophelia and the AB... espeically since they added 10-20 secs to the Miria flashback fight... Guess it's cheaper to animate Mirias flashes... /shrug.

Can't wait for 13.

hollywoodlou

2007-06-20, 20:38

Great sex...I mean, "interesting" episode.

So that's the infamous kiss scene between raki and Clare...Clare could do better though. So now it gets elevated from a brother-sister relationship to a I've-got'the'hots-for-my older-sister level.

Ophelia is great though...totally off the charts: I mean you've got the entire negative energy vibe from her: perversion, lust, violence, conceitedness...reminds me of my ex-gf. More Ophelia!

stormy001_M1A2

2007-06-20, 20:45

Actually Ophelia normal calm voice is quite disconcerting, considering what she is doing at the time. I think it underscores her sadistic and PMS driven insanity perfectly.

Cheese Ninja

2007-06-20, 20:46

I'm still not sure how much of the Voracious Eater/Awakened Being stuff Raki actually understands. Clare never gave him the details, and he was a bit too preoccupied with his own problems in this episode to fully process what Ophelia was saying about getting to kill TWO Awakened Beings. He should understand now that Awakened Beings are nothing like ordinary yoma. But I don't think he knows that Claymores who go past their limit become Awakened Beings.

That Awakened Being was pretty dumb to lose to Ophelia like that, I wonder how it would have turned out if she wasn't so easily tricked.

hollywoodlou

2007-06-20, 20:49

Key Board

2007-06-20, 21:24

Zeluch

2007-06-20, 21:32

you know...

snapping one's neck has an approximate effect to lopping one's head off

the reason why you die is because your brain stem is broken

I don't think your average claymore is supposed to survive that

If a claymore can stretch out the bones of her arms to unbelievable length, I'm sure could be said about the spine and spinal cord. Obviously I'm no expert on claymore anatomy - but in the end, I suppose they could have Ophelia twisting herself into a pretzel and sprouting a 2nd head if they wanted to - Just to show how twisted (Put intended!) and evil the "bad guy" is. :p

myopius

2007-06-20, 22:21

Yeah, if the head is full severed I don't think there's much any being can do about it, unless they're so totally inhuman they developed a decentralized nervous system. This episode's single-digit Awakened Being seems like she could've qualified for that, but I guess she wasn't important enough.

I was also surprised to see that kiss, I had the feeling it was just to give Raki hope and inspire in him a feeling that would cause him to believe in her, since Raki's personality has always been of the sort that makes you think "cheeky little brother", and she's older and more mature than him and she's the one that took him and he's always talking about how she's a great "human being" plus there's the Teresa-Clare / Clare-Raki parallels that make you think their love is probably platonic. Well, I suppose we'll see.

Since she departed from Raki so seriously I get the feeling they won't see each other again for a while, and in that time Raki will get strong. Maybe he'll become a male Awakened Being? Although that's kind of predictable, I don't think it would make a bad plot point. Not sure how he could pull that off though... I don't think Clare would want him to acquire the body of a monster, but Teresa probably felt the same way and Clare did it anyway, so yeah. Well, if he finds strength to seriously fight alongside Clare while remaining human, that will be very admirable. I wonder if they'll start to split between Raki's POV and Clare's POV at all? The preview doesn't show Raki so maybe he'll just reappear a bit later having leveled up.

Ophelia is pretty cool. I get the feeling she may be a little out of touch with reality in addition to having a psychotic personality, though... Since I can't believe she'd let herself get in that position (her face said she was annoyed/upset) right before her head twisted if taking care of that thing was as easy as she'd mentioned earlier. Rather, I get the feeling she overestimates her own strength recklessly.

Yeah, it seemed like she was molesting Clare there at the start, before I noticed that she wasn't putting her hand on Clare's chest but rather inside it... x.x

Not sure how this fight will end. I can't see Clare winning unless she's able to do more than just quickly burst in and out of Awakened mode while retaining her sanity, but I doubt Clare will die in the next few episodes. I was really surprised when she healed like that btw, when the other Claymore (Deneve, was it?) did it she took a while, maybe Deneve was going more slowly to be cautious? Anyway, I could see Rubel interrupting Ophelia since Clare doesn't seem to be an Awakened Being to him, but he doesn't have any special reason to help Clare out and what if he sent her to Ophelia to just get killed anyway, plus Ophelia might kill him too.

Instead, I get the feeling that Clare will luck out and avoid getting slaughtered well enough to escape without the promise of being pursued, and the organization will continue to consider her un-Awakened.

herbert

2007-06-20, 22:22

If a claymore can stretch out the bones of her arms to unbelievable length, I'm sure could be said about the spine and spinal cord. Obviously I'm no expert on claymore anatomy - but in the end, I suppose they could have Ophelia twisting herself into a pretzel and sprouting a 2nd head if they wanted to - Just to show how twisted (Put intended!) and evil the "bad guy" is. :p
You just conveniently forget stretching arms is Helen's own patent, not all claymores'.

Nightengale

2007-06-20, 22:24

Awakened Ones used to be Claymores as well, so they should know the general limits of how much punishment they can endure.

Ophelia's probably just more powerful than a general Claymore. After all, she is No.4, and seems to be in the grounds of being capable to fight an Awakened solo.

Twisted Reality

2007-06-20, 22:47

Not sure how this fight will end. I can't see Clare winning unless she's able to do more than just quickly burst in and out of Awakened mode while retaining her sanity...
*snip*

Clare already did an "Awakened mode" burst when she saved Raki. And then afterwards, the only thing she could think of was getting away.

Also, she's saved by deus ex machina. Also famously known as the plot-device-that-saves-your-ass. Basically, the weight of some external event will save her.

So yeah...she lucks out.

Err...I mean, she wins by her own sheer determination, sense of moral purpose and the blossoming of her latent potential in furious rage of righteousness.

Twisted Reality

2007-06-20, 22:54

Ophelia's probably just more powerful than a general Claymore. After all, she is No.4, and seems to be in the grounds of being capable to fight an Awakened solo.
Yes, well I hate it when a character is saved from their own carelessness because they're "higher level." It's too RPG-ish. It really just defeats the credibility of any threat you throw against said-character. (Ever watch a little girl slit a fully grown man's throat with a school ID card in Noir? Ludicrous.)

Really, I think it was mostly Ophelia just being overly-confident that she could beat this thing no matter what. Any Awakened One that wasn't too drunk off its own power, or out-of-touch, would have read her Yoki and cut her head off. It's just an excuse to give her some more characterization, and having her survive is just necessary to keep the plot from derailing.

painted82

2007-06-20, 22:55

I can't help but agree with Mentar.

Why are so many of you angry and even whiny about these so-called "inconsistencies" from the manga or your own version of what Claymore should be?

Do you watch anime to enjoy it or nitpick about every little thing as if to boost your own ego?

I enjoy this anime very much and I'm quite thankful that the director/producer is doing an awesome job of animating this masterpiece. Eclipse is doing a great job, also. These people do not owe us anything; they are doing us a humanitarian favor. The show isn't making a cent from us watching it overseas from where it's being aired.

And I would also like to defend Raki as well. I think he's very brave and commendable for what he has shown despite all that he's been through. Many kids his age would turn psychotic if they experienced even a fraction of what Raki has experienced. He's supposed to portray a more realistic version of a kid, not like some male leads in Gundam Wing or something.

Twisted Reality

2007-06-20, 23:03

I enjoy this anime very much and I'm quite thankful that the director/producer is doing an awesome job of animating this masterpiece. Eclipse is doing a great job, also. These people do not owe us anything; they are doing us a humanitarian favor. The show isn't making a cent from us watching it overseas from where it's being aired.
*rolls eyes* That doesn't make it exempt from criticism you know.

bkg9990

2007-06-20, 23:13

what's with Clare's lips on the last scene O_O

TigerII

2007-06-20, 23:16

I didn't take the kiss as romantic. Just something to ease his mind and get him to split up.

painted82

2007-06-20, 23:19

*rolls eyes* That doesn't make it exempt from criticism you know.

No, but I think the criticism is undue and unfair. Even Hollywood feature films, with a 1000x more budget, aren't picked apart frame by frame. (Aside from the fact that most of them don't even have a credible plot to begin with.) And many of you criticizing the author's choice of characterization of Raki even though Raki is a completely believable and realistically thought out character! What the heck? It's like critiquing a beautiful girl negatively because she has a small pimple on one of her earlobes. We have got to come to our senses about this!

Westlo

2007-06-20, 23:19

I was really surprised when she healed like that btw, when the other Claymore (Deneve, was it?) did it she took a while, maybe Deneve was going more slowly to be cautious?

Deneve regrowed an arm and mended a hole in her stomach, clare just reattached 2 legs.

Kinematics

2007-06-21, 01:18

Well, got to watch it. I agree with those who felt Clare's expressions during the kissing scene felt very out of character for the situation they were in. In other circumstances I wouldn't have a problem with it, but with Ophelia hot on their trail, to be able to push away all of the stress/fear/flight response emotions and get all romantic... just seemed wrong. The only way I can possibly explain it away is that it's a hearkening back to Clare's offer to show Raki her "prostitute smile" (and for that matter, I seem to recall a number of people wishing Raki had said "yes" when that first came up).

Speaking of Raki, I think there were at least 4 different drawing styles for him? In the training bit at the start he reminded me of Jackie Chan in Jackie Chan Adventures. Most of the time he's his usual self, or a bit goofy looking. But then when he confronted Ophelia, he had that uber-dramatic, old school shonen hero look. It's actually not a bad style if they use it for when he 'grows up'.

Ophelia's voice was wondefully done, but there's not a single decent shot of the expression I want for an avatar (her "Let's play a game!" face). 10:35 is close, but they clipped the top of her head out of the frame. Guess I'll be staying with what I've got. :)

Clare's need to strain to get back to her legs seemed overly-forced. Her arms are still perfectly functional. And for some reason, saying that makes the Monty Python "Black Knight" skit run through my head. "Oh, running away, are ye?" "Your legs are off!" "Coward! Come back here, I'll bite your knees off!"

Re: comment about Ophelia munching on something after killing the Awakened One -- I think that was just the sound of her neck popping back into place. Oddly enough, you get the same sound when she's turning her head about while explaining the rules of the 'game' (~8:35). It could very well be that she just has an excessive amount of flexibility when it comes to her neck.

Edit: Also, to NoSanninWa -- I think I've pinpointed the moment when Ophelia when from crazed loony antagonist to someone worth caring about, for me. Unfortunately it's towards the end of the story arc, so would involve spoilers, but makes everything else about what she'd done up to that point make sense (well, sort of). I'll bring it up again if/when it happens in the anime.

FlareKnight

2007-06-21, 01:39

Yeah I'll say that there is something unique to Ophelia that would save her from a broken neck. Other than being really twisted what's her unusual ability? Could it be serious durability in surviving injuries that come short of being cut into pieces? Just seems like the Awakened One wouldn't have been that sloppy unless she believed that would kill her. Probably has figured out how to kill a claymore and having been one knows that a broken neck would do it. If it wasn't enough she would've done something bigger.

Though the awakened one seemed really lazy, just no energy in this thing at all. Should be interesting to see what goes on with Raki. Will he come back with some actual strength and will he still be human when he returns?

ashesatdusk

2007-06-21, 02:08

(I live in Europe, and we don't kiss each other on the lips at the drop of a hat, though we're certainly more casual about it than anime characters. But then, I'd guess RL Japanese are more casual than anime characters, too. Am I wrong?)

Doesn't that kind of depend where you live in Europe slightly? Where I am theres a notable population of young Spaniards, and and most of the girls seem to be very lax about kissing one another on the lips (quick pecks) as a greeting. Its kind of odd in public.

This is just observation I've seen from the three times I've visited. Japanese people are lot more willing to depict situations, anime and fiction that wouldn't be as appropriate in real life. Anime to my eyes seem in many situations to depict an image of western character interactions to an extent. (I'm not saying every character interaction is western ect.). I can't speak of romantic situations between high schoolers, but there very much a sense of theirs a proper time and place for everything. At the same time I'm not trying to say japanese people aren't casual, there just casual if there in a place where they can be casual if that makes sense.

hollywoodlou

2007-06-21, 02:10

No, but I think the criticism is undue and unfair. Even Hollywood feature films, with a 1000x more budget, aren't picked apart frame by frame. (Aside from the fact that most of them don't even have a credible plot to begin with.) And many of you criticizing the author's choice of characterization of Raki even though Raki is a completely believable and realistically thought out character! What the heck? It's like critiquing a beautiful girl negatively because she has a small pimple on one of her earlobes. We have got to come to our senses about this!

I agree with p82, the Eclipse gang are doing us a free service and that I appreciate. But criticism goes both ways TR, if you can do a better job than Eclipse, then volunteer.
They're already showing Blood+ which has 50 episodes in Japan and I'm PO'd I cant see it...

Regarding the Raki character which is NOT part of the fansubbing, I'm in the majority here, he's annoying (for now) and less annoying (in the future).
I've read some of the manga dl's BUt the reason why I wait weekly for the anime is because as an example, I want to hear how Ophelia communicates demonically to Clare (of which the manga cannot do). It's nice to imagine how a book tells a story..then sometimes it's nice to just accept the visual feature of the story in anime...

Anh_Minh

2007-06-21, 02:22

you know...

snapping one's neck has an approximate effect to lopping one's head off

the reason why you die is because your brain stem is broken

I don't think your average claymore is supposed to survive that

Oh, I daresay that if the average Claymore could survive it, the Awakened Being wouldn't have made that mistake at all.

But it doesn't mean there aren't some Claymores who can survive it. Helen, for example, has the looks of someone whose neck can do 720° and more. (Which would be a pretty neat party trick, when you think about it...)

So the Awakened should have made sure.

NoSanninWa

2007-06-21, 02:57

Oh, I daresay that if the average Claymore could survive it, the Awakened Being wouldn't have made that mistake at all.

But it doesn't mean there aren't some Claymores who can survive it. Helen, for example, has the looks of someone whose neck can do 720° and more. (Which would be a pretty neat party trick, when you think about it...)

So the Awakened should have made sure.

If you recall, after Miria saw Helen's arm extension she commented that based on Helen's equipment (strange sleeves and pants) it was likely Helen could extend her legs as well.

Miria thought that this was worthy of comment. This implies to me that ability to extend one limb does not automatically imply other limbs are similarly stretchy. One cannot just assume that Helen has a stretchy neck as well.

FatPianoBoy

2007-06-21, 03:31

Episode 12: in bite-sized pieces for your convenience!

I don't know why Miria was so afraid of her. She's kinda cute with that voice...
"I could do this myself. You're just an extra." We know, but see, Rubel's all like...
Woah, they finally gave up screwing with us and decided to hand out the yuri? :eek:
Aiyee, twister. Painful *nods*. A kinkey one is this?
Wait, red? WTF is with this chick...
*Lick* :twitch:
*Slice* "Now me and junior are gonna play a game. Fix yourself before I whack his head off." Oh... so that's why.
"Oh shi-... it's the Awakened Being! Stop screwing around, get your legs back on and help me!" :nono:
"Hey, no cheating!" I lol'd :heh:
*Snap* ...... *Thunderous applause*
"You think I'd die that easily?" Of course not - this is shounen :rolleyes:. Heck if we can't dream, though.
"Now it's time to hunt down the other monster!" Naturally; any excuse to use that sword on something.

Not since Lucy (Elfen Lied) have I been wanting to see a character in as much pain and misery as can be conceived by a sane individual. However, as a "villain," Ophelia freaking wins it. When this is all over, she may become one of my favorites. I've felt this giving off a 'your natural friends are scarier than your natural enemies' theme for a while, but it's been solidified with this broad.
\
Oh Rubel, you're so cute when you're poking for information you know you're not going to get - especially when you already know it, anyway. Sticking 47 with that psycho Numbaa Foa? Can't you at least look like you're trying to keep it subtle like last time? :rolleyes:
Also, it looked like that Awakened Being had wiped out that whole town. So... who called for help?
What an obvious setup :heh:

The only time Raki isn't whining is when he's getting cut on by Vampyra. That's one strike off Ophelia for figuring out how to get Naruto to STFU. Clare could take some pointers here.
I'm seriously beginning to wonder about him, though. He's a cookie-cutter, stereotypical shounen protagonist; so much so that he feels out of place in this otherwise intelligent story. I don't think this is one of those subverted archetype things like what we got with Kyon, though. He seems to take the "I'm gonna get stronger/protect you/talk about doing lots of stuff when I could actually be doing something about it" personality to a hyperbolic extreme. I wouldn't mind having a chat with the mangaka on this topic, since I can't quite figure out why he's here other than to avenge Clare when she gets a bridge dropped on her...

One of the creepiest mini-bosses yet. Loved her. Reminds me of when Inuyasha was still kinda cool (pre-Naraku). Her behavior also lends credit to my theory that Awakened Beings are usually completely fine in the head. Would she have let Ophelia go if she hadn't mouthed off to her? It's a shame we'll never know, as that kind of stunt would have had everyone overhauling their theories on these "monsters."

"Stay here for now, and when this is over, I'll find you again. Until then, you have to survive." Heh, wouldn't it be cheesy if she laid one on him right here? Good thing this show is too...... :twitch: It happened again! D :
Still, <3 secksyfaced Clare :love:

after this arc, we'll get a fast-forward to grown-up Raki, who has now either become Guts' naive little brother or has found someone in the organization ready for a second try at a male Claymore. Ophelia has awakened, possibly by attempting to become like the Four Musketeers (may happen before the arc is up). Clare is missing and/or deceased, which gives us an excuse to follow Raki around as he searches for someone of whom no one who would tell would know and no one who would know would tell. Also, Irene makes an appearance at some point, though I have no idea in what form or situation.

Hmm... good episode. Not much really in the way of happenings except introducing a psychotic monster (and a random Awakened Being for her to play with), but I may just still be spoiled from that densely-packed episode of last week. The directing was really nice, the camera angles especially, and the outstanding voicework has continued (I love how even the people playing the mini-bosses throw themselves into the role). Music and everything else was good, and that foreboding aura that's been permeating the whole thing since the start has gotten darker.
The fan is on high, and the $%&^ is on a collision-course :eyespin:
I give it an eight. On the plus side, Ophelia and the Awakened Being were "cool," and we now have as solid of proof as we're likely to get that the organization is out to whack Clare. On the downside, that and some slightly OOC love-love time was all we got for our 22-ish minutes of episode

(Does anybody actually read all of this?)

Poochi

2007-06-21, 04:13

I'm kinda disappointed that fight scenes have become:

1. Power-up with colourful aura.
2. Blur.
3. Enemy sliced to bits/blood splurting out.

I wanna see some special techniques! :mad:

And yes, Clare's expression was kinda out of place. But I think the director wanted her to look tender but the artist screwed up and made her look like someone from Bible Black instead (Not that I've see it or anything :innocent:).

And stop generalising everyone who dislikes certain parts of the episode as whiners.

ashesatdusk

2007-06-21, 04:18

(Does anybody actually read all of this?) I did... Being a manga reader I have to bite my tongue a lot.

'm seriously beginning to wonder about him, though. He's a cookie-cutter, stereotypical shounen protagonist; so much so that he feels out of place in this otherwise intelligent story. Lets not forget that Clare is the protagonist. I think Raki is very much what he's supposed to be, which is a young child thats some what immature, but serves a significant importance. He's the preservation of Clare's humanity... in a sense. Because of his similar background to Clare's own human past.

I just finished this one, and I can say I wasn't looking forward to it. Ophelia in this chapter/episode is one of the few characters in fiction that seriously gave me a sense of fear in an anti-hero or villian or whatever she is. I guess her mentality is very much what I picture insanity to be. At least so far her killing is for no ends or purpose. We see a lot of character types that things lives are disposable, or kill just to show their strength, or at a point kill just because they can. Its rare that they're portrayed as doing it for no ends or purpose. In this episode, it just seems like she has an obsession with killing.

Majek

2007-06-21, 04:27

I did... Being a manga reader I have to bite my tongue a lot.
Ditto. It's so diffucult to hold back when reading all these speculations.

FatPianoBoy

2007-06-21, 04:28

Glad to know it's not going to waste, at least :heh:

Lets not forget that Clare is the protagonist. I think Raki is very much what he's supposed to be, which is a young child thats some what immature, but serves a significant importance. He's the preservation of Clare's humanity... in a sense. Because of his similar background to Clare's own human past.

Hmm... I see what you mean, and though I agree, I can't understand why he has to be so annoying most of the time (I'll admit he was pretty cool fighting Ophelia); that end could have easily been achieved without his constant yammering ("half-human, half-youma?"). Hopefully this episode was a turning point for him, since he took a big bite out of some humble pie when his sword bounced off the Awakened Being's nose, and getting lip action from a lady like Clare will definitely get you thinking about the deeper things in life.
So, here's to Raki not being made of total failure later on.

And yes, Ophelia scared me, too - almost as much as Priscilla.

Melodymix

2007-06-21, 04:45

Raki actually got my respect in this episode! The kiss scene was sweet :D
and Ophelia just rocked, although she's quite freaky

Joka

2007-06-21, 05:32

Now, even though this was wrong, if Priscilla nd Ophelia could have a kid how fucked up would it be?

I still want to see Raki turn into a Claymore, release 5% yoki and lay out 3 awakened beings at once. That would be so fucking sweet.

Azure King

2007-06-21, 05:36

WOW just finish epi 12 .. i just didn't know how much of a psyco Ophelia is.. can't wait to see what happen next epi.. i hope this series go to 50 epis... love the part where Ophelia "plays" with claire hehehe

TougeSil80

2007-06-21, 05:49

Azure King

2007-06-21, 05:53

Ophelia said Clare went over her limit and came back, so does this means she can do this regularly now? If it is, that's freaking cool. Clare isn't really that strong, so when she has to fight Ophelia she'll probably have to go awaken in order to kill her.

In the last epi didn't no.6 (forgot her name) say that even with there new awaken powers they are still no match for the top 5 ?

Grey

2007-06-21, 06:12

Aurrrgh. I glanced at this thread early on before watching the episode and looked through the criticisms, and I ended up not being able to make it through the episode. I guess the criticisms put me in a more observant and critical mood than usual, and my eyes kept on picking out "imperfections" that grated on my nerves.

I suppose it's like enjoying a piece of art, and then looking at it more closely and noticing that the proportions are off over here...and over there...and there...and there as well. Then you can't enjoy it anymore because your eyes are always drawn to those flaws. Hah, it's the same thing with mistakes in music I suppose. I'm sure people who have messed around in the arts know what I'm talking about.

It didn't help that I probably have higher expectations for their handling of the introduction of the charmingly psychotic Ophelia. Higher than, say, I might have for last week's exposition episode (which seemed superior in contrast). ...I'll try and watch the episode again later.

dxanato

2007-06-21, 06:43

In the last epi didn't no.6 (forgot her name) say that even with there new awaken powers they are still no match for the top 5 ?

Miria did say that but Miria also misjudge just how strong Clare is. The top 5 are strong but the question really is just how strong is Clare. Clare is still learn how to use her powers.

stormy001_M1A2

2007-06-21, 06:53

If audience have paid attention, Claire is easily the most adaptable fighter. To me, adaptability is a very good virtue for warrior.

Gavrielo

2007-06-21, 07:13

Sure Clare is put out to be weak but later on she's bound to become stronger, it always happens in anime >_> and we always get sucked up into believing it.

potchip

2007-06-21, 07:24

Obviously Clare wasn't in a hurry to get away from the AB and O. She even had time to use glossy lipstick and eye shades while 'running for raki's sake'. Errm....there are quite a few 'off' facials from Ophelia throughout the episode, and the kiss scene had the good environmentals but the facials, as well as the timing is way off compared to the manga (which I admit, leaves greater room for imagination, of which is always 10/10).

Personally I believe the kiss, as one earlier poster described is merely a chaste kiss, more to shut Raki up to get things rolling than anything. I also find it interesting that most people attribute 'promise' or 'kiss' as romantic, while certainly the end result in the anime does suggest that particular path, reading the manga only suggest a strong bond, like fondness that can exist between two people. Whether there's romance involved is up for debate.

Sinestra

2007-06-21, 07:30

Again Claymore manages surprise me. The sheer addictivness of the show is overwhelming. First I will start out with Raki got my respect in this episode. Not only did he stand up for Clare and fight knowing he could be slaughtered but he trashed talk that was freakin great. The fact that he is willing to go through such lengths shows how much he cares fo Clare and he even got a little smooch out of it.

I was not expecting Clare to meet Opheila so soon but i knew something was up when they she got her orders to take on another awakend. But i did expect a voltile and harsh meeting between her and Ophiela maybe not as sick and nasty as it was but I mean that bitch cut of Clare's legs to play a game with her and Raki she gets of on the pain of others, it was almost like she was getting sexual pleasure out of it. Clare and Opheila's meeting and how Opheila reacted to her tells me one thing. The Organization is not blind to Clare and the Slashers. They obviously know something is up with them, if not why send a single digit? Opheila is ungodly strong she pretty much wasted that awakend with no trouble but it was a pain in the neck:p (ok that was bad gomen)

The way i see it at this point is that Clare is going to be on the run from Opheila who is hunting her like a common animal and the Organization. She cant exactly go back and say hey Opheila attacked me because she thinks im an awakend one......I agree with the seperation of Clare and Raki for the time being as he is now its too dangerous. My hope is that there is a small time jump where Raki and Clare meet up again when he is a little older. Clare is going to be busy girl if she is going to escape from Opheila. If Opheila is this strong i dont think i want to see how powerful #1 is.

I wonder if the rest of the party from the Slasher episodes are facing similar issues.

Ok everybody is up and arms about the kissing scene. The reason i liked it was shock factor alone i didnt think about it being romantic or just a sign of concern to get Raki to leave. The scene with Clares lips and that dreamy take me now look was kind of out of place but acceptable. After all since Clare met Raki her emotions have begun to come out more and more its not surprising she would act this way

D a m i e n

2007-06-21, 08:19

mediocre episode.
another stereotypical homicidal psycho b*tch with nothing to differenciate her from the other stereotypical homicidal psycho b*tch that appear in other series.
mediocre fights at best.
ophelia wasnt fondling her breast she went to the "core" of the claymores (remember the horrified look of the rapist when he saw the body of claire's mentor), personnaly i think she went even lower and it might be claire's bad moment of the month, i was waiting for an angry indian from ophelia...
for the kiss it was more a "stfu kid, there you go, now be a nice little pet and obey" than anything else and who care she didnt use the tongue. but i will agree her attitude contrasted too much with her regular attirude (i ll settle with the awakening post effect explanation since it can make sense)
raki was as annoying as always, but i think it s because there is no other way to translate his "i will protect her" bullshit. i might be giving him too much credit but what he means is that he ll be there for her to still feel human, instead of i m gonna fight for you. i was really hoping he d get killed by either ophelia or the awakened that would have remove the sidekick comic relief of the serie. he is needed for claire to remain human and for her to have emotion but he is more of hindrance than anything, i m glad their path separated (at least for the moment.)

i hope the next episode will be better

@gravelio : where does your avatar comes from?

CodySilver

2007-06-21, 08:49

man, its very interesting for us, manga readers, to read all these comments and speculations.... lots of theories about the kiss, hehehhahah.... just hold on guys, things will show up soon.

talking about the episode, i liked it very much.... ophelia is a little freakier than in manga, and I liked it. Dialogs were ok, a bit centered in Raki, but everything was ok.

9/10 for this one.

ArmisaelXVIII

2007-06-21, 09:49

I enjoyed this EP, and also enjoyed watching it another 2 o 3 times and I'd mind watching another time later :P. I'll give it a 7 because of the poor animation overall, and sometimes the perspective looked weird to me. Also, I didn't like somethings of the development of the story, some events seemed too forced. (After watching the anime I read the respective manga chapters and I seemed the same)

From what Ophelia did to Clare (*¬*), Ophelia didn't looked like she had any problem piercing Claire's skin so it makes me think that Claymores have somewhere between their breast some kind of "wound" that leaves you see their bones/flesh or maybe some especial 'organ'.

As claire is now, she is probably unable to beat Ophelia. In the preview it's mentioned a "warrior from the past". After much thinking about who could it be (Miria-Helen-Deneve, Galatea herself, another male-awakened, priscilla...) It came to my mind that it may be Irene. I would really like it being the case. *love*

superzombie23

2007-06-21, 10:19

I also find it interesting that most people attribute 'promise' or 'kiss' as romantic, while certainly the end result in the anime does suggest that particular path, reading the manga only suggest a strong bond, like fondness that can exist between two people. Whether there's romance involved is up for debate.

That's what I was talking about yesterday. It was out of character compared to the manga where she seemd very concerned about his safety, wanting to keep him alive. I could care less about the fact that she kissed someone underage b/c I just loved that part in the manga to tell you the truth. The anime makes it out to be romantic which makes Claire seem a bit different than her source material. Anyhow, who knows if this was a chaste kiss? It could be but right now it definitely does not look like it b/c of the expressions she showed which scared me and make me LOL every ****ing time I watch that scene.

zato_1one

2007-06-21, 11:30

I thought that Ophelia won because she was lucky. That awakened said "I despise people who have no class". I assume that she may consider herself high class. And she may don't like to make blood splash all over the place. So she decided to break Ophelia neck instead of ripping her head.

I notice that she didn't try to eat only Raki's intestine but also his whole body. May be because it was the only way to eat without making any dirtiness to her body or her place. In addition, the town didn't have any trace of corpse or bloodstain either. I admit that she surely neat for an awakened. But I suggest that she should pay more attention with her cloth. Because she may looks cuter than this. :heh:

I may different than other but an awakened is a highlight for me in this part. I really like the design. Looked so strong, terrific and yet very beautiful for a tentacle monster. Too bad she had gone already. :(

For me, I don't give this part in manga a score 10/10 because I will give it in next part. :p However, if Clare's face wasn't like that I will give this episode 9/10 without any hesitation though. :uhoh:

Negativedark

2007-06-21, 12:03

That look after Claire kisses Raki, that was definetly the Prostitute Smile.
Wonder when we'll see the noblewoman's blush?

FlareKnight

2007-06-21, 12:40

I'm interested in seeing who the warrior from the past is. I agree it could be a few people and for those who read the manga I can only imagine how they are feeling from these guesses. Wouldn't expect a couple episodes being that far in the past. Though it would be interesting if they came in to back up Clare.

My personal feeling is Irene. Unlike some she was just slashed, and there is a ton of blood flying around. Though if she survived wouldn't she have stayed in the organization as a number? Or after seeing all that go rogue...

Yeah that awakened one really seemed to have the class thing going. If she was a bit messier then she might've survived the whole thing. Never seen someone die with such a lack of emotions other than slight surprise.

Defiled one

2007-06-21, 12:51

I say it is Priscilla. She is the only one alive from that time.

Twisted Reality

2007-06-21, 13:29

No, but I think the criticism is undue and unfair. Even Hollywood feature films, with a 1000x more budget, aren't picked apart frame by frame. (Aside from the fact that most of them don't even have a credible plot to begin with.) And many of you criticizing the author's choice of characterization of Raki even though Raki is a completely believable and realistically thought out character! What the heck? It's like critiquing a beautiful girl negatively because she has a small pimple on one of her earlobes. We have got to come to our senses about this!
Yes, and some people will make that criticism, nitpicky and annoying as it is. And yes, I'm sure there are serious film critics who do literally pick things apart "frame-per-frame." It doesn't mean they don't enjoy watching it.

However, I agree that Raki is far less annoying than a lot of other characters in anime. (i.e. Sasuke from Naruto, Suzaku from Code Geass, Shinji Ikari from Neon Genesis Evangelion...) In fact, he's so forgettable as to generally be beneath my notice. Annoying? Not so much.

However, your admonition against making these criticisms because "they're not doing this for our benefit," is just melodramatic. An entertainer's work is going to spawn annoying quibbling arguments and criticisms, that's just the nature of any job. Customers are just unreasonable and stupid sometimes too.

Twisted Reality

2007-06-21, 13:32

I say it is Priscilla. She is the only one alive from that time.
She's not technically a "warrior" anymore. Just an unrestrained force-of-nature that may or may not take fighting seriously as a lifestyle.

And really, wouldn't Clare be screwed if Priscilla shows up?

Defiled one

2007-06-21, 13:43

And really, wouldn't Clare be screwed if Priscilla shows up?

:rolleyes: Oh:rolleyes: She would get screwed alright...Yessss:naughty: Very very screwed.

Kouvley

2007-06-21, 14:57

Some additional thoughts after watching the sub.

Ophelia's "fun and games" was quite amusing to watch but I can see it getting old fast so hopefully she has another dimension to her character.
She is obviously able to orchestrate her "games" due to her being more powerful than most, so it will be interesting to see how she behaves in the company of numbers 1-3.

As claire is now, she is probably unable to beat Ophelia. In the preview it's mentioned a "warrior from the past". After much thinking about who could it be (Miria-Helen-Deneve, Galatea herself, another male-awakened, priscilla...) It came to my mind that it may be Irene. I would really like it being the case. *love*

It could well be Irene. I mentioned in a older thread about her possibly being alive because she features too prominently in the opening, I remember having to double check her symbol to make sure it wasn't just a lookalike.:heh:

Or maybe this warrior from the past is.................Galk and Sid from the Rabona arc!:D

Defiled one

2007-06-21, 14:59

Priscilla!! Five Bucks On That!

Ellis

2007-06-21, 15:04

But... to talk about that again, I just don't understand why Claymore's viewers get so mad about Raki. He was certainly very boring at the beggining, but in the episode 12, I found him a lot better... When he met and fought against Ophelia or the Awakened Being, I was expecting to find him, crying in tears... but, on the contrary, he didn't look down or depressed, he faced his destiny ! He was, this time, more realistic and sharper to the situation and worthier for Clare...

Concerning the Kiss's scene, I was very surprised ! For once, Raki didn't say nonsense stuff, and really cares about Clare... Even if Clare looks like a "prostitute" in this, even though it was surprising, I liked this end.. but I hope that it wasn't for telling him to shut up and to get away as quickly as possible... ^^

dutchman

2007-06-21, 15:13

It could well be Irene. I mentioned in a older thread about her possibly being alive because she features too prominently in the opening, I remember having to double check her symbol to make sure it wasn't just a lookalike.:heh:

Or maybe this warrior from the past is.................Galk and Sid from the Rabona arc!:D

Galk and Sid would only supply Ophelia with more limbs to play with :heh:

Lendial

2007-06-21, 15:43

thats a good theory, she, unlike noel and sophia is in the opening. priscila also did not cut off her head. she implaed noel sophy in the heal with her tentacles which is probly enough to kill them.

Deathkillz

2007-06-21, 15:46

now i understand why Ophelia likes to play with dolls...scary...

Concerning the Kiss's scene, I was very surprised ! For once, Raki didn't say nonsense stuff, and really cares about Clare... Even if Clare looks like a "prostitute" in this, even though it was surprising, I liked this end.. but I hope that it wasn't for telling him to shut up and to get away as quickly as possible... ^^
yea it wasnt a good move to make her look like a slag but in the end i still love the meaning behind the kiss ^.^ i refuse to believe that it is something to make raki shut up but rather an encouragement for him to live on...who would be willing to be killed with such a beauty waiting for you in the end? ;)

Sinestra

2007-06-21, 15:59

Anh_Minh

2007-06-21, 16:19

Theresa shall rise from the dead and rescue Clare.

Defiled one

2007-06-21, 16:25

Thou shall not spoil!!!!!!! :heh: Just kidding.

Guido

2007-06-21, 16:49

now i understand why Ophelia likes to play with dolls...scary...

yea it wasnt a good move to make her look like a slag but in the end i still love the meaning behind the kiss ^.^ i refuse to believe that it is something to make raki shut up but rather an encouragement for him to live on...who would be willing to be killed with such a beauty waiting for you in the end? ;)

I have seen this episode four times, and everytime that I see the kiss scene it does wins me over and make me feel touched. I do admit that when I saw the pics at 2chan before watching the episode I was freaked out, but after seeing the episode itself to me doesn't become something to which the crowd makes a fuss or ruckus about.

To me the reason why it worked was thanks to the music. I believe the producers picked-up their wrong choice of animators for the week, and that's why Clare's face was drawn to put up her best prostitute smile.:heh:

Leaving the jokes aside, I do commend the staff for their choice of music for that scene it helped, at least to me, to soften the visual impact and made me focused upon Clare's true intentions.

I feel that the purpose for Clare giving Laki that kiss can be made ambiguous and opened up to interpretations of our own understanding. Just like Deathkillz, after watching enough times the episode, I am strongly inclined to believe that it was encouragement from Clare to Laki to grow spine, choose his way to live and made himself strong.
In other words, it is farewell not a goodbye, I just hope so to be it. They'll be seeing each other again, but for now they have to split and walk their respective paths in order for both to grow-up at their own pace.
Like I said in the previous episode thread, Clare is still chibi-Clare in her feelings.
The scene was poignant and immersive, because it encourages to make me believe that Clare can open up the possibility for herself to choose a future, but that path would be only open, until Clare claims Priscilla's head and not before.

I also have no suspicions to assume that Clare lied to Laki in respect that they'll be seeing each other again and no need to. Recall, that Teresa never lied to Clare and neither abandoned her. Teresa made an impact on Clare to pick her as her family figure, as well as Clare made an impact on Laki to pick her as his family figure as well.

I have a mix feeling watching this Ep. - -"

I prefer how anime deviate from manga when Clare told Raki to stay in the forest instead of took him with her. It makes more sense because Clare shouldn't carelessly taking her boy to battlefield. I prefer this path more than in manga though.

But unfortunately, that could make Raki looked so stubborn for insisting to follow Clare. If Raki didn't interfere when Ophelia molested Clare. Clare might find a good excuse for herself and the situation might not be bad like that. But well, who knows what will happen if Raki didn't come.

One other thing, I felt they did a very good job to show Raki determination. It convinced me to believe that he truly want to be strong and help protect Clare. In manga, I didn't feel like this at all. I felt he just a side character until... You know what I mean right?

And for Ophelia, my only complain is that she looks cuter and younger in manga. But it's not a big deal. She's still hot because she's elf.

And... that KISS scene. To tell the truth, I don't fond of this path in manga. It's kind of meh to me. I was stunned because it looked so suddenly. Just whisper to myself, WT... are you doing Clare!!! I thought she might only want to shut him up. But in later chapter... Fear to be banned so I just want to say that I think the relation between Clare and Raki now is not just sister and brother anymore. Both in manga and anime.

In anime, Clare looked so scary to me. >< Clare, are you a shota-con? I understood that Raki attitude could make your heart uneasy. But Hey! He's just a kid you know!!!

This episode left me so much mixing feeling. I don't even sure how to rate it.

Honestly, Emi Shinohara did a decent voice role for Ophelia, but I guess with wacko-psycho characters of Ophelia's character one aspires for someone greater to fill in the position and trust me that no one could have ever exceeded the role like none other than Tanaka Rie.
Rather than some cuckoo Sailor Jupiter, why not a psychopath Suigintou?:heh:

Ok. But still Ophelia got her good deal of the episode, and unfortunately for Clare, she received the short end of the stick with Ophelia on the spotlight.

Seeing Clare all that helpless and frustrated, as nothing more than the punching bag for Ophelia it brought me memories of Blood+ Hagi.

Geez, for now Clare would be like the punching bag, getting her limbs cut off or pierced through the stomach, until she strikes back. And oh boy! I am looking forward for the moment that Clare becomes stronger.

chibamonster

2007-06-21, 16:56

Ophelia's voice was marvelous. If anyone were to twist my head 180 degrees I could only hope to pull of an Exorcist moment like Ophelia. It would be really hard to fight looking backwards after all. As for her character design when did Deedlet escape from Lodoss? I kid I kid. I didn't realize she was such an elf before!

In the manga Clare's kiss caught me totally off guard. Raki is talking about how important being with Clare is, he's crying, bleeding from ophelias attacks and then BOOM! Full page Clare kissing shocked Raki. I had to go back and make sure I hadn't missed anything.

How about Clare praying to the God of Rabona? A God whose followers won't even allow Clare's kind into their holy city because she's an abomination. It felt like she was looking for hope and begging for help any way she could. She knows she doesn't have the power to protect Raki. She knows Ophelia will track her down. She has been warned that even with her power boost from half awakening the top 5 are out of her league. And she knows that Ophelia is the most dangerous Claymore she could have run into. I worry for Clare which is something rare for anime characters.

cors8

2007-06-21, 16:57

Ok. But still Ophelia got her good deal of the episode, and unfortunately for Clare, she received the short end of the stick with Ophelia on the spotlight.

Seeing Clare all that helpless and frustrated, as nothing more than the punching bag for Ophelia it brought me memories of Blood+ Hagi.

Geez, for now Clare would be like the punching bag, getting her limbs cut off or pierced through the stomach, until she strikes back. And oh boy! I am looking forward for the moment that Clare becomes stronger.

Well it just goes to show the huge power difference in the top 5 Miria mentioned.

Clare still has a ways to go before even thinking about taking on Priscilla.

Anh_Minh

2007-06-21, 17:05

Trax

2007-06-21, 18:07

Well well... Clare gets sent after yet another awakened being, but this time only as an extra for the powerful nr 4 Ophelia who obviously didn't need help for this task, let alone from nr 47 (although that rank doesn't really apply anymore to her strength). Pretty suspicious, and you would suspect that the organization knows about Ophelia's bloodlust and figured on either the AB or nr4 getting rid of Clare. Why they would allow her to act like that I'm not too sure of, considering they wanted to get rid of Teresa in the past for breaking the rules who was probably alot more powerful than Ophelia. Times change? Either way, she's a real psycho with her sick game and the AB actually seems more likable than her. As for the ending, I thought Clare's expression was a little out of place and I would have expected a kiss on the forehead instead, so that was a bit surprising. Raki scored some points in this episode for enduring that abuse without a peep, although he still had a little to be expected whine in him when Clare wanted to seperate from him to keep him out of harm's way.

Could have commented before, but after watching this episode a few times I felt a sudden urge to go check out the manga (something I rarely do btw) and have read it from start to finish - what I could find - and spoiled myself rotten. :heh: As far as I can tell, the anime is pretty faithful to the manga with only minor changes here and there. The sultry look wasn't there with the kiss, and imo they could have left that out. As I mentioned I thought it would have made more sense on the forehead or something. As for Raki's actions in the anime, I had the feeling they made him look a bit better than he did in the manga, which was fine by me. I never disliked Raki, but he did need this little boost in esteem.

As for some of the speculation, I hadn't thought about Raki becoming a Claymore somehow and while it would be necessary to achieve his goals I can't really see how he would pull that off since the organization doesn't make male Claymores anymore. But I suppose he could find information about the techniques used from claymores, although getting the required resources (whatever they are, and including someone to properly apply the technique) can't be that easy either. And regarding the old warrior speculation, all I can say is that I've seen some good guesses. If I hadn't already spoiled myself I would have made an argument against one of the guesses though, but by doing so I would give it away at this point. :p

Can't wait to see the next ep! I'm off to the manga thread I guess. ;)

DieH@rd

2007-06-21, 18:14

I just watched Claymore 1-12. First 5 episodes were OK, but 6-12 are absolutley awesome!!! Cant wait for more...

Lendial

2007-06-21, 18:39

Trax

2007-06-21, 19:13

Why is nr 4 important? Or any claymore for that matter (barring Clare having a main character shield), they can all be replaced if needed. Every era has its heroes (although I wouldn't really dare call nr 4 a hero).

Goofus Maximus

2007-06-21, 19:55

Tempest35

2007-06-21, 21:01

the rule that got teresa killed seems so weak now. teresa could have just killed every witness and threatened the rest.

i dont know how both are going to make it out alive without some plot device. main characters cant die till the end and nr4 is too important to die this early.

It was a Watcher, one of the Org's own men, that reported Teresa to the Org, not a scared villager or bandit. The villager(s) wouldn't have said a bloody thing and well, the bandits were busy being...bloodied. :heh:

He was there to collect the reward but no one was there. I wonder what would have happened if something like that happened and a village was destroyed before payment could be taken?

monir

2007-06-21, 22:08

Having rewatched the episode, I think one thing that bothered me is that there was an apparent change in the animation artwork. Has anyone else noticed this? The lips especially, seem to be drawn more... wet or shiny. And it appears that some of the head/body animations were done in 3D with cel shading of some sort, too...
For what it's worth, it is a good sign that Madhouse is slacking on the animation department in several episodes. As we have learned from watching other Madhouse project, they are most likely conserving their energy so they can pour in their better effort for something significant to the storyline that will probably happen in the near future. They are very good at fleshing out those climactic episodes with their best of overall animation effort. I'm sure we will be "Ooo-ing" and "ahh-ing" pretty soon. :)

killer3000ad

2007-06-21, 22:17

I have to say, I also don't mind some slackening in some episodes as long as they utilize that budget and manpower for the best animation for a certain elegant Claymore later in the series. :p Ohhh the wait. /slitwrist

noakail

2007-06-21, 23:19

Claymore climbs to the top of my list if episodes continue this way. Cliff hangers suck as well.

stormy001_M1A2

2007-06-22, 00:14

hollywoodlou

2007-06-22, 01:08

For what it's worth, it is a good sign that Madhouse is slacking on the animation department in several episodes. As we have learned from watching other Madhouse project, they are most likely conserving their energy so they can pour in their better effort for something significant to the storyline that will probably happen in the near future. They are very good at fleshing out those climactic episodes with their best of overall animation effort. I'm sure we will be "Ooo-ing" and "ahh-ing" pretty soon. :)

I never noticed them "slacking off". Claymore is too fast-paced to check out every cm of each frame, PLUS you kinda have to read the fansubbed interpetation at the bottom fo the screen, but I give you kudos on having an eye on detail.
I;m guessing you also noticed Clare slip a tongue on Raki...:p

FatPianoBoy

2007-06-22, 01:18

Well, it's be expected that a show like this will suffer from action-scene bias - also known as the Law of Conservation of Frames. As long as it's done properly, it's really not a major issue. So far, I've barely noticed it except in the first few episodes. Lately they've gotten better at budgeting their quality.

hollywoodlou

2007-06-22, 01:25

It's slowed down BUt only for a bit unlike the last 8 eps, everything was fast paced action...but the great part it's on 3rd gear, past cruise control except for ep 11 wherein Miria goes on her storytelling. It's nice when someone explains the origins and backgrounds to non-manga readers...

Westlo

2007-06-22, 03:10

Last_Hope

2007-06-22, 03:34

Personally, with this being my first encounter with Ophelia as a non-manga reader. I got to say that she did an impact on me, I like her style.

I wen´t from :confused: (wasn´t she supposed to be a top 5?) ----> :D (she´s toying with them!) when she threw Raki to the awakened one. Aaah~, how enjoyable it is when we get characters like this. Reminds me of Wesley Snipes from Demolition Man. Simon says die! :heh:

stormy001_M1A2

2007-06-22, 03:42

Yeah, she is psychotically fascinating as a dangerous, playful cat with half dead mouse.

potchip

2007-06-22, 05:38

Here! Here!

Based on the original post I'd wager the original post was about the REAL miss claymore :P not the imposter in your avatar.

ArmisaelXVIII

2007-06-22, 07:16

About Irene being the warrior of the past...

She could have deserted the organization. There is even the possibility that she had half-awakened in order to survive. It's not clear whether the organization disposes the corpses of dead claymores or just abandon them. Even if they take any action it wouldn't be a suprise if after a fight with (probably) the strongest-awakened-ever some corpses were missing.

The organization is somewhat unfair. They treat better full-awakened beings (they just let them be for the time being) than a claymore who breaks a rule or even a half-awakened claymore that still is loyal to the organization. :(

cors8

2007-06-22, 08:43

mostro

2007-06-22, 10:32

A lot of people seems to think that Ophelia was sent by the Org to finish Clare, but am I the only one to think that maybe it is the other way around? Rubel said to Clare that she is being sent to hunt an AB that used to be a single digit claymore....

So in the episode there were Clare, Raki, crazy Ophelia, and the unknown AB. I kinda doubt that the AB was the same AB that Rubel mentioned. What if instead the psycho Ophelia (single digit claymore) is also close to awakening and Clare was sent to finish her instead?

Am I reading in too much?

EasyPrey

2007-06-22, 11:24

Anh_Minh

2007-06-22, 11:37

I think that with a minimum of teamwork, Ophelia and Clare would have had a chance against the Awakened Being. Then again, only a moron would expect teamwork from Ophelia.

zato_1one

2007-06-22, 11:45

I don't think you are reading too much. I think this was another setup to eliminate two Claymores.

Ophelia was obviously a "trouble maker". She and Clare were sent to an awaken being, that should have killed them easily. Indeed, it was shown that Ophelia was no match for this awaken being. Consequently, Clare was no match for this awaken being either.

It was only due to the carelessness of the awaken being that Ophelia was able to kill her. In a head-on battle, she subdued Ophelia without a problem.

Obviously the org knew of the power of the awaken being (since she used to be a Claymore). If the org was serious about killing the awaken being, they would have sent a team of four with at least two from the top 5 in the hunt.

-EasyPrey
Woa!!! You beat me with that. I just about to write it too. Never mind then... :D

My speculation is the same. The organization want to kill off Ophelia too.
1. Why the organization just send two Claymores? In Miria past, Ophelia also teamed up with Miria and other two Claymores. And it doesn't seem that Miria friend is stronger than this awakened too.
2. That town has already been destroyed by the awakened. Who do you think can send request to the organization? And who will give money to the organization?
3. The organization may don't want to use same method because Ophelia will rebel just like Teresa. So they use this method instead. Kill two birds with one shot! But Ophelia just almost get killed though.

Kinematics

2007-06-22, 11:50

If that were true, that would require some truly diabolically prescient planning on Rubel's (or maybe the Organization's) part. How could they anticipate something so precisely? Everything we've seen so far indicates that 'awakening' involves a Claymore going past her limits, which is a situation that can't be directly predicted.

Though I suppose if it was more like an Elena case where her human mind was gradually losing control of her body, but she was too proud to send a black card, it may possibly be the case. Still, do you think Elena would have become an Awakened One when she finally lost it, or just another crazy yoma? (No way to know for certain, I suppose.) Anyway, Ophelia hasn't shown any sign that she's struggling to hold in her inner yoma. Maybe some Organization psychiatrists think otherwise.

Rubel would also have to have an amazingly powerful faith in Clare's abilities to think that she could take down an awakened Ophelia. Clare was getting smacked around pretty casually when Ophelia hadn't even powered up, never mind what would happen if Ophelia awakened. Though given Clare's abilities, that may be an appropriate turnaround. Has there been any indication that anyone besides the Fab 4 knows about them? Probably Galatea has a general idea, but not sure she'd have told anyone. Despite being a faithful little spy, she was still keeping a few things to herself.

Overall, while an interesting speculation, there seem to be too many flaws in it for me to think it's the case. Maybe I'm missing something, though.

Edit: On the other hand, the idea that Ophelia is another troublemaker that they want to eliminate, and take another stab at Clare while they're at it, is quite believable.

chibamonster

2007-06-22, 11:53

I am a big fan of the noise claymores make when they power up (the noise of miria's mirage was great). Even though we didn't get to see much of the fight between Ophelia and that awakened being I did like how Ophelia's youki release looked like a partial awakening in how powerful it was. In the manga it just says 'biki biki biki' and I wasn't quite sure what noise that was :). The music for claymore is pretty good too.

Anh_Minh

2007-06-22, 11:57

2) The neighboring villages being preyed on might band together and ask for the organisation's help. Even if the town was destroyed, that Awakened's meals had to come from somewhere.

1) And Ophelia seemed used to hunting for Awakened Beings on her own. Maybe she was less seasoned when she hunted with Miria, or maybe that Awakened was especially strong. Or maybe it wasn't actually her hunt, but she felt an Awakened's youki and went to investigate.

Fenrir_valindri

2007-06-22, 12:14

Heh them cutting up the fight scene with Ophelia vs the single digit AO seems to have caused alot of confusion.

In the Manga Ophelia had the AO beat but was captured due to her carelessness, she and the AO where pretty close in strength, but Ophelia had the advantage all the way up till the end of that fight.

ArmisaelXVIII

2007-06-22, 13:15

In the manga is clear that ophelia has her face distorted (30% of youma powers(?)) in the anime she at least changed her eye's color (10% of youma power). She was fighting seriously but, probably, not at full power.

She fight head on an AB and had her neck twisted. If the AB were to use a litle more of brutality, she wouldn't be alive. She was also able to kill the AB because of that suprise attack.

1) Ophelia also seems a "trouble children", may be the organization didn't care much if she and the AB were about the same level of power, it doesn't matter who dies, they still win. And there is no other reason to send Claire (she is 47th ranked) to fight along Ophelia's side. If she isn't killed by the AB, Ophelia would do de job.

2) It's still possible for a request to actually exist. Most people probably escaped. Even if it's a destroyed city, it's still their destroyed city and their home, they may also wish to take revenge. It's also possible that the request was sent from other cities, even if they are far away. But I personally think that thera was no request, to me it was just the organization making use of another AB.

Bikerider

2007-06-22, 13:22

I think the AO hunt was to eliminate Ophelia and Clare. Ophelia has no qualms killing humans. Well... I think her handler decided she was over the line, both in her actions and her state of mind. And to avoid another Pricilla incident, best get such trouble makers eliminated by AOs.

mostro

2007-06-22, 13:34

After reading some of the responses here I would agree that it is more logical that the Org just want both Clare and Ophelia dead. Even if they managed to finish the mission and kill the awakened being then it wouldn't exactly be a loss to the Org either... so it does look like a win-win situation for the Org to send them out.

zato_1one

2007-06-22, 14:12

2) The neighboring villages being preyed on might band together and ask for the organisation's help. Even if the town was destroyed, that Awakened's meals had to come from somewhere.
It can be. But I believe that her style is roaming from place to place and feed on those villagers. And I thought that just one or two people cannot full her appetite. So it may don't have any remain villagers to send request, imo. Just my speculation anyway.

Heh them cutting up the fight scene with Ophelia vs the single digit AO seems to have caused alot of confusion.
If you means about my speculation then... No, it still don't make sense. As I previously stated, Miria awakened friend didn't look stronger than this awakened at all. But the organization still sent four Claymores include Ophelia. If this awakened was truly as strong as Ophelia, it could mean that it was incredibly strong then why just sent two Claymore? Why the organization didn't send two more to make sure that they could win?

Benio

2007-06-22, 14:12

I haven't watched this ep but from the discussion I think I'll pass.

As a number 1 Claymore manga fan, to see Clare's face in the kiss scene like that puts me off badly. Just like some others who feel the same way, I don't mind Clare kissing Raki but I do mind that look of hers in that scene. And someone mentioned about the way the anime portrays Ophelia's personality that's inferior to that in the manga. I think Yagi sensei is so superb in the way he portrays Ophelia as such a sadistic and dangerous character. All the little details here and there just add up and beautifully contribute to the intensity of this arc. Even though she's evil, you can't help liking her as a character.

I have to say I'm quite disappointed with the anime. I can't help thinking that the director is not a true Claymore fan and that he may have not read the manga very carefully before doing this. Most of the stuff where the anime differs from the manga so far only makes it inferior to the manga IMHO. Another thing I want to say is that this anime is an adaptation from original manga and therefore it's only natural and rightful for manga readers to compare them. When you have this kind of anime, it's not just about how well it's animated, scripted and voiced but also how well the original work is adapted. That's a fair statement I believe.