sola - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Pellissier

2007-06-22, 03:06

Welcome to the discussion thread for sola, Episode 12.

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felix

2007-06-22, 04:23

I think Matsuri's going to stabs Aono ~ whatever the reason may be.

As for the rest, I'm expecting some "Oh, but you know this and this happened then." moments.
In other words some deus ex plot machinas.

Kenji_Chaos

2007-06-22, 04:38

lolz yes i agree
and perhaps 3 deaths at the same time
and also some clips on the past

Pellissier

2007-06-22, 05:02

Just a quick reminder for those who might not be aware.
Episode 12 is NOT the last episode of sola (tv airing). There will be an episode 13 next week :)

felix

2007-06-22, 05:05

Aren't there going to be some more episodes on the DVDs?!

Pellissier

2007-06-22, 05:15

Yes, two more. Details here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=936243&postcount=795) and here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=939148&postcount=802)

But for the moment I was referring to the tv airing, since I spotted around some confusion on the matter of being them 12 or 13 episodes, and I thought to clarify :)

Skyfall

2007-06-22, 07:53

This ep should be a good one. I think it is possible that this will be the climax of the whole story, and ep13 would be an aftermath of some sorts. I don't expect Matsuri to go on Aono hunt, but who knows. Either way - chewing on my keyboard while waiting for the ep.

Deathkillz

2007-06-22, 13:58

i duno what to think anymore...i bet they will throw another curve ball at us ~_~ maybe matsuri isnt trying to kill aono but instead want to try and convince her to run away with yorito...another "far out totally unpredictable and bottomless theory" would be that yorito is the one controlling matsuri...

stonedzombie

2007-06-22, 15:22

another "far out totally unpredictable and bottomless theory" would be that yorito is the one controlling matsuri...

ooooo......i like that one

octoberasian

2007-06-22, 16:52

Deathkillz

2007-06-22, 16:55

I just finished watching Ep.12 on NicoNico. If you want the URL for it, just PM me.

The ending... is surprising. It was unexpected, very unexpected. That is all that I will say. I won't say anything more until more people watch it.
well now that isnt predictable comming from this series...i wonder what kinda twisted hole they will throw at our faces this time :heh:

and i see the raw btw ^.^

Skyfall

2007-06-22, 16:55

The ending... is surprising. It was unexpected, very unexpected. That is all that I will say. I won't say anything more until more people watch it.

Considering this is Sola we are talking about, i am not very surprised about that :) Now excuse me while i go rock back and forth in the corner in anticipation.

darkchibi07

2007-06-22, 17:24

Considering this is Sola we are talking about, i am not very surprised about that :) Now excuse me while i go rock back and forth in the corner in anticipation.

Here, here!!!

*must avoid spoiler pics.....*

Skyfall

2007-06-22, 17:43

Screenshots of the episode are up, courtesy of Random Curiosity. Look at them at your own risk.
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2007/06/22/sola-12/

z3phyr.mp3

2007-06-22, 18:51

wow... though as expected that sola will bring us something unexpected... i can't believe how a talented paper master aono is... if she was one of the cast of read or die she would probably be one of the best if not the best paper master there...

wow... there house was made of paper... i wasn't expecting that.... she also can materialize a knife using paper... she can even make a paper clone of herself but seeing she made yorito it can be expected... i wonder if there are things she can't make using paper... hmmm...

octoberasian

2007-06-22, 19:01

Screenshots of the episode are up, courtesy of Random Curiosity. Look at them at your own risk.
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2007/06/22/sola-12/

"Apparently Takeshi had told Matsuri that using her own life with the sword will allow it to turn a Yaka back into a human." - Random Curiousity

** Yorito holds down Aono to the ground then the motion picture of the sky appear on the screen.**

All: "Sora..."

** Matsuri stabs herself with the sword as far in as she can and imbues it with her own blood. ** :eek::sad:

Yorito: "Do it now..." (Not exact translation.)

** Matsuri removes the sword and raises it high in the air over Aono... **

** Screen fades to black. **

And thus the end of Aono's selfish, distorted ways. I did not expect that. And, many thought that there would be double-, triple-suicides or a much more tragic end.... ^^;;;

But, I don't know... is this the end of Matsuri and Yorito?@z3phyr.mp3 (http://forums.animesuki.com/member.php?u=40573)
I was surprised myself: house is paper; she made TWO CLONES of herself against Matsuri (now, that is a low blow and cheating); she made two knives out of paper; she controlled a crane with paper... O.o

aeriolewinters

2007-06-22, 19:34

Can't Matsuri use that sword Ala Saya?

serenade_beta

2007-06-22, 19:43

Didn't Saya's sword kill those monsters? It seems Matsuri's sword is supposed to revert Aono back into a human. But if Aono reverts back, Yorito goes bye-bye. Matsuri is supposed to die in the process. If Yorito disappears, won't Aono just commit suicide again? (That would be a waste)...

I guess Matsuri is pretty selfish herself. She revived Aono into a Yaka because she didn't want to be alone.

The beginning part- Hah! Matsuri had her kicking habits long ago.

Another random note- Congratulations, Mana's friends! You make an appearance.

Icerack

2007-06-22, 19:48

The most action packed episode ever. I was pissed off at Matsuri for a while. Matsuri is quite the deciever. First she sounds like she wants to steal Yorito away and luring Aono all the way to another place only to find that she's going to trade her life to turn Aono back to human. Awesome ep.

Owaranai Destiny

2007-06-22, 20:04

Not that I didn't expected it, but the way things turn out still shocked me a little, especially with Yorito figuring into the equation. Right now it's YET another GODDAMNED cliffhanger :heh:, and my first question would be regarding who did Matsuri stab. Did she thrust the blade into herself again, or into the two of them, be it literally or figuratively (the latter meaning only into Aono)?

The fight looks to be lengthier, and perhaps better than all the others people were complaining about, though. Somehow Aono seems to be more...able in the utilizing of her powers so far. ;)I did like the background of the sky when the climax came as well.

kct

2007-06-22, 20:13

Seriously, this episode topped the rest in terms if insanity.

Kenji_Chaos

2007-06-22, 20:35

and so my prediction on a triple KO came true
well at least Mayuko is now human..and she might end up with Takeshi >.<

octoberasian

2007-06-22, 20:40

and so my prediction on a triple KO came true
well at least Mayuko is now human..and she might end up with Takeshi >.<

That is one pairing I would never imagine... o_o

Kenji_Chaos

2007-06-22, 20:47

That is one pairing I would never imagine... o_o

lolz it was just random XD
i think is impossible for it to happen unless

Either Takeshi turns back to a child or Mayuko turns to an adult according to her current age.

z3phyr.mp3

2007-06-22, 21:36

and so my prediction on a triple KO came true
well at least Mayuko is now human..and she might end up with Takeshi >.<

was it mentioned that mayuko would also turn back into a human... i thought only aono would be the only one to turn back...

WanderingKnight

2007-06-22, 21:38

Oh my god, what an episode.

Final twist of the plot... Despite all predictions Matsuri actually wants to kill herself and revive Aono... now THERE'S something I really didn't expect. Cheers, sola, for surprising me again and again.

and so my prediction on a triple KO came true

Huh? I don't see it ending that way. Have you actually watched the episode? O_o

Final thought:

MAN, I SOOOOO WANT THE FRIGGING OST!

Icerack

2007-06-22, 21:42

was it mentioned that mayuko would also turn back into a human... i thought only aono would be the only one to turn back..
My impression was that only Aono was to be reverted back.

octoberasian

2007-06-22, 21:51

was it mentioned that mayuko would also turn back into a human... i thought only aono would be the only one to turn back...

Yeah, only Aono is turning back to a human. Remember what Takeshi told Matsuri that her life (well, her blood) on that sword and stabbed into another Yaka will turn them back into a human. So, Mayuko will live on as a Yaka, unless by some surprise, Aono takes the sword (if still has Matsuri's blood on it) and stabs Mayuko with it in Ep.13. (Highly doubtful, but knowing the authors, they might surprise us.)

Kenji_Chaos

2007-06-22, 22:02

Yeah, only Aono is turning back to a human. Remember what Takeshi told Matsuri that her life (well, her blood) on that sword and stabbed into another Yaka will turn them back into a human. So, Mayuko will live on as a Yaka, unless by some surprise, Aono takes the sword (if still has Matsuri's blood on it) and stabs Mayuko with it in Ep.13. (Highly doubtful, but knowing the authors, they might surprise us.)

opps sorry my bad >.<
just saw many stabbings thats all >.<

Kaoru Chujo

2007-06-22, 22:26

Another great episode. Had my attention from start to finish. The only thing that bothered me was......why and how the film of the sky started up when it did. Who did that? Was it Matsuri? How?

It looks now as if Aono will be left alone, but I look forward to yet another twist in the final episode.

Mentorian

2007-06-22, 22:43

octoberasian

2007-06-22, 23:15

Does anyone notice that in the beginning, Matsuri wanted to kill Aono?
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6373/stabbingqm6.th.jpg (http://img177.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stabbingqm6.jpg)
It was only later after she saw "sky" that she decided to stab herself. An oversight, perhaps?
I noticed that. Matsuri definitely had intentions of killing Aono. She tried once, then realized it was a fake Aono. Second time, as shown above in that picture, another fake.

I wonder why she changed her mind at that moment of seeing the sky on that theatre screen. It's like something snapped inside of her and probably realized that killing Aono isn't the best way. I guess by making herself and Yorito disappear would be a greater punishment. But, Aono doesn't want to be human nor does she want to live without Yorito. You can even hear Aono scream at the end. I was even more surprised that Yorito was supporting this as he held down Aono for that "final blow" to Aono. By becoming human, there is no way Aono can ever remake Yorito for her selfish needs.

She was also in denial. After she restrained Yorito on the wall, she said "You're my brother... and I'm your sister." (If I translated that right.) So, she was in denial all the way up to the end refusing to believe Yorito is gone from this world already.

And, I think, Aono does deserve it after all that she put Matsuri through. The question now: Would she kill herself again?

Omniscient

2007-06-23, 00:35

...why and how the film of the sky started up when it did. Who did that? Was it Matsuri? How?

Sometime during the fight earlier (18:21 mark), an electric current started flowing to the movie projector. I assume that it reached the blue sky part right as Matsuri was approaching the other two.

wontaek

2007-06-23, 01:31

Skyfall

2007-06-23, 03:04

Oh my god, what an episode.

Final twist of the plot... Despite all predictions Matsuri actually wants to kill herself and revive Aono... now THERE'S something I really didn't expect. Cheers, sola, for surprising me again and again.

Ha! Now at least this is one prediction i finally got right! The question is ... what happens now? Does Matsuri have to die in the process? What happens to Yorito? I am not that worried about Aono after (if) she is turned back in to human - i suspect her memory of Yorito/Matsuri will disappear, just like the rest of townspeople, thus enabling her to live on as a normal human, without being bound by the past.

That is, unless we get yet another curveball thrown at us.

Owaranai Destiny

2007-06-23, 03:20

What is likely is another twist in the next episode.

I thought, judging from Matsuri's tendency, it would be more likely for her to kill herself to turn Aono back to human. The thing is, Aono would resist that, bitterly, thus the need to weaken and immobilize Aono in order to give her the sword, so maybe that is the reason why she had to try to wound Aono deeply. Still, there is no reason why she might not thought about killing Aono, thus making Yorito disappear, and turning Mayuko back to human, although Mayuko would really be upset that someone had been killled. So many questions, so little information. Still, it was rather clear that Aono was the superior fighter had Yorito not intervened. I wonder how come Aono became so powerful compared to Matsuri. Maybe Aono tried to power up for centuries while Matsuri tried to enjoy life the best she can.

That's the thought I had in mind as well, though perhaps a clearer explanation for the rationale of her actions in this episode will be provided in the next one, possibly clearing things up for people who don't quite grasp the concept of Matsuri stabbing herself.

Aono probably was stronger in the sense that she had probably desperately wanted to "revive" her beloved brother, thus possibly 'honing' the usage of her Yaka powers. The strange thing is, if creating a Yorito took so much time and energy for her to land into hospital (assuming this is so), how could she create another two more golems of herself with seemingly less effort and less strain?

wontaek

2007-06-23, 03:21

Ha! Now at least this is one prediction i finally got right! The question is ... what happens now? Does Matsuri have to die in the process? What happens to Yorito? I am not that worried about Aono after (if) she is turned back in to human - i suspect her memory of Yorito/Matsuri will disappear, just like the rest of townspeople, thus enabling her to live on as a normal human, without being bound by the past.

That is, unless we get yet another curveball thrown at us.

Maybe if Matsuri successfully turn Aono into human,Koyori will come by to rescue Aono. The series invested lots of time into their relation, and this is a series which didn't to waste much screen time.

Deathkillz

2007-06-23, 03:22

turn you dam tables turn!! :p
a story of the past and present...i guess with this most if not all of the past is revealed ~ i dont feel much is missing from the situation now and its all down to what happens after...

from the past it seems that it was already quite a complex love triangle going on...while aono is jealous about matsuri being close too yorito, so is the same for matsuri being jealous towards aono and yorito (as they are siblings after all). It was aono who claimed that matsuri will never be left alone again now that she has friends...which is a rather bad move for her ~ after being lonely for so long and to know the comforts of having friends it like a drug...matsuri just doesnt want to be alone anymore so even after aono died this will pushed her into reviving aono even though it is not something that should normally be done...as we see in the flashback aono flips and tries to run out of the cave (and thus getting burnt) trying to deny the truth...matsuri then pulls her back and says that she does not want to be alone...

back to the present the fights were hard and fast...matsuri is clearly no match for aono (deadly paper cuts :heh:) but she carries on with her goal...while it seems to be pretty standard stuff showing matsuri and aono trying to counter each other, the trick came from aono actually cloning herself not once but twice! (and i do not call that cheating by the way :p "all's fair in love and war" as they say ~)

the end was a realy twist! after pausing to stare at the screen with the projection of the sky matsuri ends up stabbing herself. Is she crazy? no...and the reason to why she did that was because takeshi's sword has the power to sacrifice the life of one yaka to turn another into a human again...so does this mean that by stabbing herself, matsuri intends to turn aono into a human again? (ofc yorito will sure to die...)

but no! from earlier it is clear that matsuri is intended to kill aono...looking at how she stabbed the second clone i for cant one take the "shes only trying to immobilize her" as an excuse...it was a full shot aimed for the body and that would be a killing blow...instead the reason why matsuri stabbed herself instead is a whole new split second idea...she did it after seeing the sky at last ~ maybe this caused her to make up her mind about who to save...while it is a fight to the death and the winner gets to claim yorito as the prize only one can become human...

matsuri sees the sky at long last...her wish is fulfilled so there is no reason to stay anymore...giving up her reason to be with yorito she decides to give aono a second life...while she did intend to become human herself so yorito can keep his promise with her the fact that the promise is fulfulled means that she that promise is finished...and thus we see what has happened happen...

oh boy...what an ep ~ not the most twisted ep ive seen comming from this series but aono has an insane amount of yaka power...i mean making a house and the even some clones...puts a whole new meaning to "unlimited paper cut works" :heh: ~ the music was just drop dead gorgeous ~ especially during the final fight...BRING ON THE CONCLUSION! :D

JediNight

2007-06-23, 03:38

I don't know why everyones using spoilers still but...

God ... Aono has WAAAAAY too many hax powers in this episode. She can not only control paper, but create paper, and then turn that paper into anything she wants. And she can plaster paper on stuff to control it remotely too... I mean wtf. And all Matsuri can do is a weak disintegration shield?

As for the whole sword deal: I assume Mayuko didn't want to become human at the expense of another life, and so that's why they left. If it does end up where Aono is left human, then yeah I really hope she hangs onto life long enough for Koyori to rescue her. Although she did erase everyones memories ... I wonder if Koyori still has hers?

With how much deus ex machina has been tossed around lately, I wonder if the sword wouldn't also bring Yorito back to "human life" as well. It could happen, god knows everything else has been possible so far ;p

Matsuri is a bit of a sensationalist though -- the sword requires a Yaka's blood coated on it. Surely there's a way to make a non-lethal wound to apply the blood on it from. And even the wound she gave herself I'm assuming should be easily healable with her Yaka powers. But it IS Matsuri, and she's had a rather suicidal attitude for the entire series.

wontaek

2007-06-23, 04:17

Skyfall

2007-06-23, 04:28

but no! from earlier it is clear that matsuri is intended to kill aono...looking at how she stabbed the second clone i for cant one take the "shes only trying to immobilize her" as an excuse...it was a full shot aimed for the body and that would be a killing blow...

It clearly doesn't work that way - as we have seen, a stab to the stomach is not lethal to yakas, so that could not have been intended as a killing blow. (By your theory, Matsuri herself should be dead by now :p). I suspect she would have went for the head if she intended to kill Aono.

That aside, i feel Aono has been given way too much hax powers. Especially creating two clones of herself and she doesn't even look strained, while creating one Yorito landed her in to the hospital.

octoberasian

2007-06-23, 04:57

It clearly doesn't work that way - as we have seen, a stab to the stomach is not lethal to yakas, so that could not have been intended as a killing blow. (By your theory, Matsuri herself should be dead by now :p). I suspect she would have went for the head if she intended to kill Aono.

That aside, i feel Aono has been given way too much hax powers. Especially creating two clones of herself and she doesn't even look strained, while creating one Yorito landed her in to the hospital.

Yeah, Aono was doing these things with ease. It's as if she's grown comfortable with the amount of power she's exerted after having created Yorito. So, now, she can expend as much as she wants without getting strained.

The way I look at it is this:
Aono is the equivalent of an athelete that's trained and trained and can do things with little strain.

Matsuri is the equivalent of a regular person and takes things in stride. But, when it comes to strenuous activity, she has to put more effort into it than someone's that's trained for it.

Therefore I think Aono built up her power over the years, and it looks like she's been creating Yorito for quite a while. And, she used most, if not, all of her power to make that creation as close to the real Yorito as possible. Matsuri, on the other hand, knew her situation beforehand and learned to accept it. She probably spent most of her life enjoying it as much as she can and maybe running away from people that considered her a threat.

Also, do you think Matsuri fatally stabbed herself? I've seen Matsuri get stabbed and thrown and beaten up, and still get up. She is a very tough girl; and whatever is thrown at her, she picks herself back up and hold her head up high.

I just don't think she died after plunging that sword into her. It didn't look like a fatal spot, but it did look very painful.

I guess we won't truly know until Ep.13 if Yorito became separated from Aono or ceased to exist and if Matsuri lived or not. Ahhh.. this wait is going to kill me. >_<;;;

Mentorian

2007-06-23, 05:21

Yeah, Aono was doing these things with ease. It's as if she's grown comfortable with the amount of power she's exerted after having created Yorito. So, now, she can expend as much as she wants without getting strained.

The way I look at it is this:
Aono is the equivalent of an athelete that's trained and trained and can do things with little strain.

Matsuri is the equivalent of a regular person and takes things in stride. But, when it comes to strenuous activity, she has to put more effort into it than someone's that's trained for it.

Therefore I think Aono built up her power over the years, and it looks like she's been creating Yorito for quite a while. And, she used most, if not, all of her power to make that creation as close to the real Yorito as possible. Matsuri, on the other hand, knew her situation beforehand and learned to accept it. She probably spent most of her life enjoying it as much as she can and maybe running away from people that considered her a threat.

Also, do you think Matsuri fatally stabbed herself? I've seen Matsuri get stabbed and thrown and beaten up, and still get up. She is a very tough girl; and whatever is thrown at her, she picks herself back up and hold her head up high.

I just don't think she died after plunging that sword into her. It didn't look like a fatal spot, but it did look very painful.

I guess we won't truly know until Ep.13 if Yorito became separated from Aono or ceased to exist and if Matsuri lived or not. Ahhh.. this wait is going to kill me. >_<;;;

It clearly doesn't work that way - as we have seen, a stab to the stomach is not lethal to yakas, so that could not have been intended as a killing blow. (By your theory, Matsuri herself should be dead by now :p). I suspect she would have went for the head if she intended to kill Aono.

That aside, i feel Aono has been given way too much hax powers. Especially creating two clones of herself and she doesn't even look strained, while creating one Yorito landed her in to the hospital.

I think creating Yorito's clone is far much a challenging work than creating her own clones. In Yorito's case, didn't she have to bind Yorito's soul to the golem (or at least his personality and part of his memory, as Yorito was able to recall the pre-Yaka Aono).

Moreover, aside of Yorito, in the beginning, Aono needed to create a false memory of everyone in town and to build the house, furniture, and everything in it. Personally, I will be freaked out if a house suddenly appeared at a vacant lot next door (Off topic: there was a Doraemon episode when Nobita's house suddenly appeared next to a cinema and the owner was like WTF.) Notice that when she left to fight Matsuri, the entire house simply vanished and Mana's friends didn't notice it except feeling strange (I might be mistaken here, since my Japanese is not that good). I think the house and everything in it disappeared because Aono felt the need to gather all her power for this final battle.

One thing that still bugs me though, WHERE IS KOYORI? Last time we saw her, she was sleeping in the living room at Aono's house and I don't think Aono had a chance to take Koyori back to her own house.
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/6717/koyorisleepaj1.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=koyorisleepaj1.jpg)

Deathkillz

2007-06-23, 06:50

Kenji_Chaos

2007-06-23, 09:49

ok so aono is human now....do u think she might murder herself after this?
meh then matsuri just die in vain >.< she should make use her blood and give it to mayuko instead

matsuri changed her mind wen she saw the sky pic...probably it reminds her of her promise with yorito or something or maybe not

Icerack

2007-06-23, 10:41

During the flashback scene with Takeshi, Matsuri states either to Takeshi or to herself that she intends to make Aono human. IMO, I don't think she decided to change her mind half way through. The stab through the stomach was either overlooked or meant as a non-fatal blow.

felix

2007-06-23, 10:43

Oh this was one kick arse episode, I love these episodes with feelings and fights ^^
And yey Aono has one of the most awesome fighting styles ever.

Looks like the sword needs to go all the way through the victim to be imbued with the spell. Matsuri stabbed herself in the same spot and with the same force she stabbed the 2nd Aono clone so no doubt about it she was trying to revive someone ~ but not Aono. The scene with sola wouldn't have been so dramatic had Matsuri not changed her mind all of a sudden. It would also be pointless for her not to stab herself sooner if that's what it took. The way it went she was obviously going to stab Aono first.

This could be a huge plot hole or perhaps an oversight, like some other things in the series ~ there were actually quite a few hax in terms of distance, placement etc only this episode, it wouldn't be surprising.

It appears Aono was indeed Yoritos sister, and there's some ~ affection, but nothing dirty as some theories would suggest. She mostly has some sort of brother-complex.

Oh and as far as Aono's poweres are too haxored ~ she's not a commoner and there does seem to be some sort of indication she's was some sort of sacrifice in the past but I didn't really catch it, so it would be silly if she didn't have all that power. There's also the fact she's using something she puts practically a lot of love and life into ~ and then there's also the Yorito experience. On the other end Matsuri is generally loafing around doing little to nothing. My opinion is that Aono is maybe too l33t and Matsuri is too much of a n00b, and that's were the contrast in the fights comes from.

Boukenxha

2007-06-23, 12:36

I agree with wonteak that Matsuri needed to weaken Aono before she can do her sacrifice. The cut scenes to Mayuko and Takeshi were more or less a commentary that Matsuri had a strong resolve in what she's planning to do, so it's not likely (though not impossible) that she will change her plan midway. Just after she stabbed herself, in another flashback scene involving Takeshi teaching Matsuri the sword's usage, we also saw her determined look as she emphasized "to return Aono to human." And lastly Yorito doesn't look at all shocked that Matsuri impaled herself.

As for Matsuri plunging the sword into Aono's kami bunshin (lol)... I observed that it was aimed somewhere in the abdomen area. Matsuri was also stabbed earlier by Yorito in the same area and she survived. When Matsuri stabbed herself for the sacrifice, it appears to be aimed higher up, I'm guessing at the heart. Maybe the heart is where the life essense of the Yaka lies... just my guess though.

Anyway this episode had me on the edge of my seat from the start to finish trying to figure out what Matsuri is really trying to do. And what's more we finally got the centuries ago flashback that I've been dying to see. It also nice that in between the tension we've got back some of the old Matsuri playfulness which I really enjoyed in the first half of the series ie. the movie pretense interlude. This is easily the best ep for me so far.

Mueti

2007-06-23, 13:48

Even though the fighting itself wasn't poorly done it somehow failed to deliver the right feeling. There were a few good moments but mostly the fight was a bit boring imo. And there were some minor inconsistencies again: Why is Aono's paper inside the building as well after Matsuri crashes through the window? How can Yorito hold her down so easily after pushing her over? But well, it's nothing that can't be overlooked.
And the scene when the blue sky is suddenly being projected onto the wall, we see a long shot and everybody freezes for a few seconds - that was great, I really liked that one.

And of course it had to end with a cliffhanger. ^^

TougeSil80

2007-06-23, 19:24

octoberasian

2007-06-23, 22:57

It seems like Matsuri and Yorito will disappear (after Aono turns back to human, Yorito will probably just turn back to paper), but Aono will be turn back to human. I wonder if Aono will retaiin any of her yaka memory. It's a little different than what I expected, but it's still an excellent ep. 10!
I wonder if Aono will attempt suicide again or learn from this. But, I'm sure she'll retain her memories from being a Yaka.

Oh wait... she now has to get a new identity, et cetera, to start another life-- and this time without the use of Yaka powers.

aeriolewinters

2007-06-23, 23:59

^shell be Hired by the British Library...lol

wontaek

2007-06-24, 00:13

^shell be Hired by the British Library...lol

That is a possibility.;)

Nightengale

2007-06-24, 00:18

^shell be Hired by the British Library...lol

What's the point if she loses her Paper Master powers? :p

xat

2007-06-24, 02:44

stonedzombie

2007-06-24, 03:51

soonkiong

2007-06-24, 04:33

Incredible episode. I wetted my pants watching this.

Mez

2007-06-24, 06:29

where's she getting all that paper from, that's alot of trees

Owaranai Destiny

2007-06-24, 07:11

wow.....BIGGEST....CLIFFHANGER.....EVER

tell me if I have this right though guys...

Matsuri will sacrifice herself to make Aono human and Yorito will then disappear, I got that part. The thing is, wont this leave Aono completely and utterly alone? It seems kinda heartless for Yorito and Matsuri to do this to her and not care......just leaving her by herself. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Am I wrong?

As far as this series is concerned, I won't be surprised if they throw us another twist in the midst of all that's happening currently. I'm putting half my money on that happening, though apparently the scenario you just mentioned seems to be the most conventional one that's likely to happen. Aono won't really be alone, but I'm guessing that she'll be really heartbroken.

I don't know what Matsuri and Yorito really want for Aono, but it almost seemed like a good slap in the face for her to face reality and stop living the dream. No guarantees she won't attempt suicide again, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed and thoughts open.

Nifft

2007-06-24, 07:51

If Matsuri was the one erasing everyone's memories, that could explain why Aono looks so hax compared to her.

I'll be really disappointed if Mana and Kayori don't have a significant part to play in Ep.13

-- N

felix

2007-06-24, 07:52

Aono touches upon exactly what I was concerned with. I feel this show is moving a bit too fast - it feels very shallow for Yorito to reach such a resolve so quickly, when he [felt like he] was completely normal during the former portion of the show. Good episode, but the I'm losing favour in the characters.
Yes the series has become quite predictable ~ good presentation but the details are failing. I have nothing against using hax in scenes, I'm bored stiff of all this realism in some shows. My quarrel is with the sub-story bits, as you put it, they are quite shallow, not like the main thread is far from the same definition. e.g. I'm happy I was close, but it also feels wrong.100I think Matsuri's going to stabs Aono ~ whatever the reason may be.

As for the rest, I'm expecting some "Oh, but you know this and this happened then." moments.
In other words some deus ex plot machinas.where's she getting all that paper from, that's alot of treesThat's not real paper, it's spiritual-paper~
But I guess you were just joking with that comment. :heh:

xat

2007-06-24, 10:48

I'm going to have to disagree with you a bit there. The series remains (for me) to be rather unpredictable. There's certain points that can be gotten to by reasoning (i.e. Matsuri learning to use the sword -> confronting Aono), but part of sola's charm is in its twists, and those are very hard to reasonably predict.

No, my concern goes something more like this: During the former portion of the show, Yorito is presented to be a weird yet very human character. He's your usual teen except he's got an obsession with the sky. As far as he knows, his sister is sick and visiting her periodically is only the RightThingToDo. I wouldn't hesitate to admit that his compassion for her at the time is derived from the memories she placed within him, but we already know that Aono doesn't quite have control over how his feelings evolve. It's his human-like nature that allowed him to become such good friends with Mana, come to love Matsuri, and even [eventually] neglect Aono (note: I'm referring to the night he left her to search for Matsuri).

That's fine. That's the image of Yorito we're presented with for most of the series. Where it goes wrong for me is when Yorito discovers the truth about himself. Granted, even before then his stance toward his sister was already changing. He knew something was very wrong with himself after the night he stabbed Matsuri, and, through Mana, he knew it definitely had to do with Aono. From here, all it took was a single episode for Yorito's resolve to change drastically. So much so that he's able to shaft Mana and decide that being Yorito, for him, is no longer acceptable. I don't buy it; it tosses his human-like nature out the window.

When I say Aono touches upon exactly what I was concerned about, I'm referring to when she questions his motive. Knowing the truth, suddenly being who he was is no longer a possibility. Somehow, though, he thinks it's acceptable and even necessary for him to revert to his true form (正しい姿 -- it was translated differently in the subs, but the meaning is the same). It seems to me that he still has a strong connection with Aono at this point (note that he still calls her Nee-san), and yet I'm surprised this connection isn't even stronger. It's clear that she trusts him a lot. His point about her having control over him, to the point in which she's able to control what he remembers, is valid but holds little meaning to me. He didn't consider that she's let him off from that on every occasion following the night he stabbed Matsuri.

Not only that, she remade him, and painstakingly so. Rather than accepting and adapting to this, he's convinced it's all wrong. He's convinced that somehow ceasing to be is the better resolve, and that undoing Aono's labor is acceptable. For this to kind of resolve to be reached within such a short time frame, when he still has so much to lose, feels forced to me, and this is where the shallowness comes from.

I have a similar stance on Matsuri, particularly after this episode. Need to collect my thoughts before I go into detail on that one though.

stonedzombie

2007-06-24, 11:29

so, that

vacant lot was their house right?

and also

something else I just thought of. Since Yorito and Matsuri had a past history together, did she know who he was when they met in ep 1? Didn't really seem like it. Had she forgotten? Or was she pretending that she didn't know who he was when she really did? hmmmmm

Nemesis2124

2007-06-24, 12:51

something else I just thought of. Since Yorito and Matsuri had a past history together, did she know who he was when they met in ep 1? Didn't really seem like it. Had she forgotten? Or was she pretending that she didn't know who he was when she really did? hmmmmm

Presumably, her memory of him was a bit hazy after such a long time. While she probably noticed the resemblance, I don't think it really started to hit home until she heard his name (she has a rather blatant reaction.) But even then, it was probably brushed off as a coincidence till episode 6.

Julius Firefocht

2007-06-24, 13:11

I supported Aono all the way. Working towards a dream and fulfilling it, no matter how painful and much labour it takes, that is to be respected.

By now it is obvious Aono is some sort of master tactician and micro manager. She was consistently multi-tasking throughout this episode. :D

Anyway, this is one of the most action packed episode I have yet seen. Now, I eagerly await the finale.

TigerII

2007-06-24, 15:05

And it seems the comment I made after the first episode(Way back when Sola was a single thread in Fansubbed is going to come true. Tragic storyline. Even if somehow Yorito and Matsuri can live and she can be with paper...Aono will still probably die.

Mueti

2007-06-24, 15:29

[...]
That's fine. That's the image of Yorito we're presented with for most of the series. Where it goes wrong for me is when Yorito discovers the truth about himself. Granted, even before then his stance toward his sister was already changing. He knew something was very wrong with himself after the night he stabbed Matsuri, and, through Mana, he knew it definitely had to do with Aono. From here, all it took was a single episode for Yorito's resolve to change drastically. So much so that he's able to shaft Mana and decide that being Yorito, for him, is no longer acceptable. I don't buy it; it tosses his human-like nature out the window.
[...]
I have a similar stance on Matsuri, particularly after this episode.
[...]

I think that's the reason why I'm slowly caring less and less for the characters. In the beginning of the series it was all about their quiet interaction which I really liked. But reaching such an absurd resolve so easily after what, a day or two? That's not just forced, it's way out of character. Yorito and Matsuri both (especially Yorito) have basically stopped being themselves somewhere in episode 11. At least that's how it felt to me and with such a show where caring about the characters is the most important factor of enjoyment it basically kills the anime.

Btw: Does anyone else here think it would've been a nice idea to have Yorito really disappear in episode 11? After the scene on the roof with Mana he just shouldn't have appeared again before Matsuri and she would've been left alone to sort things out with Aono somehow.^^

Icerack

2007-06-24, 17:32

TigerII

2007-06-24, 17:39

Tragedies do suck^^. But as you said its not a complete tragedy. Some have a happy ending(..sort of).

Nifft

2007-06-24, 20:14

There are a few things that lead me to hope Ep.13 will surprise me:

1/ Yorigami's paper control + the surprised look on Aono's face. She didn't think he was able to rip his own arm off (to partially revert to paper). I think he has become an entity independant of her.

2/ Mayoko is returning to town. She's the foreshadowed deus ex machina, so let's assume there will be a surprise one, too.

3/ IMHO Aono only looked hax compared to Matsuri because the latter had just spent a lot of her yaka-juice erasing everyone's memories. Animating two paper-clones must have taken some power out of Aono, so presumably they'll be on more equal footing if the fighting begins again... assuming Matsuri is alive at the start of Ep.13, of course.

-- N

stonedzombie

2007-06-24, 21:31

I think it was the intent of Matsuri to sort it out with Aono alone, but Aono decieved Matsuri into fighting a clone of herself giving her the opportunity to locate where Yorito really is. Otherwise, if Matsuri's plan was successful, Yorito probably wouldn't have reappeared.

I'm not sure if the decision to turn Aono back to human is a wise one. Once she becomes human and both Matsuri and Yorito disappears, either Aono will probably just suicide again. Obviously the only way to make Aono happy is to keep Yorito around and ditch Matsuri. I think their lives would've probably been better if Matsuri just never appeared int he first place. Then their lives would've gone on as normal teenagers and things would've probably worked out (until all their friends get old). I think this kind of a conclusion just sucks for everyone involved: Mana and Koyori loses their good friends, Matsuri and Yorito disappear into thin air, Aono gets reverted back to human against her will. Atleast, Takeshi and Mayuko seemed to have gotten their happy ending.

For the most part, I really agree with you. The latter part of this series has been COMPLETELY different then the first 3/4. I mean, I totally expected a romance drama and a "love that cannot be" between Matsuri and Yorito and Aono would be thrown in there as the jealous girl. For the most part, thats what this seris has been. All of that changed the moment Yorito stabbed Matsuri. Then, things got waaaay CRAZY. Yorito is oragami? He was just an illusion? The house, the relationships with their friends, all fake? Matsuri and Yorito deciding almost INSTANLY that him and Matsuri should kill themselves? It does really feel that these characters are not the same ones we witnessed for most of the series. They just seem soooo out of character at this point, and just not themselves. And for that, I too dont care for the characters as much as I did before (not a fan of paper). But even though I have mixed feelings about the curveballs being thrown at us lately, the series has yet to not keep me on the edge of my seat, begging for the next episode. Its still awesome.......just, different now.

Whitemoon648

2007-06-24, 22:35

WoW, what a cliffhanger. Does any one know what does that song at the end of episode?. Doremei version is what i am talking about.

Kyuusai

2007-06-24, 22:57

I enjoyed the episode despite its continued departure from the charming character interactions that drew me into the series.

Commentary:
- Something that bothered me about this episode is that Matsuri spent so much time attacking Aono before she begain her "process". So, what was her plan... to incapacitate Aono before returning her humanity? Sure, that makes sense. Wait, no it doesn't! It might have made sense if Matsuri had first intended merely to kill Aono and then changed her mind, but that wasn't the case.
- The projector starting on its own was kind of unbelievable, and a bit cheap. But the result was beautiful. Just before the still scene ended, I wondered how long it would go on, and realized that it could last a good bit longer and I wouldn't mind. Art.
- Aono: HAX. So she doesn't just manipulate paper... she makes it, too? And makes equally strong clones out of paper in the blink of an eye. Too much!
- Aono's a master tactician, apparently. Matsuri is... apparently not. While I can understand their different mindsets leading to different levels of craftiness, it's kind of ridiculous for Matsuri to go to the trouble of leading Aono all that way and then not have any sort of better plan or trap set up.
- When Aono flew through the wall, I had one thought in my mind: "Gyafun!!" :D I felt kind of bad for letting my mind drift in an MST3K kind of way. :heh:
- When did Yorito gain super-strength? He ripped his own arm off and is holding Aono down. ...How?!
- Several of us were right: Aono has been trying this process for a long time. Since super-powered clones are apparently no problem, I suppose the hard part for Aono was imprinting the memories into Yorito?
- There's one episode to go and a lot that could happen. I'm betting on an ending that would be a surprise considering the present events, but I guess a surprise ending isn't much of a surprise. I hope it's happy for all the characters, and I hope it provides some resolution for Mayuko. We STILL don't know what Original-Yorito's solution was for Matsuri to be able to see the sky...

Nemesis2124

2007-06-24, 23:28

Now that you mention it, the last big secret definitely seems like the most interesting one. Off the top of my head, I really have a hard time coming up with anything viable. However, given the allotted time left, I'm expecting the solution to be something very subtle; something that's been lurking right under our noses for a while. Either way, I fully expect the show to be rubbing it's craftiness in our faces next week.

EDIT: Just got an idea, actually. Given the themes floating around in episode 12, it would be kind of neat if the "burning in the sun" deal is some sort of metaphor for the "pain of living" or something like that. In which case, basking in it and letting it burn could be the answer.

Ascaloth

2007-06-25, 01:58

Watched the Doremi fansub of Sola Ep12, and as usual, I don't give a hoot about spoiler tags. The subs are out, so there's no place for them any more.

Moving on, this is a pretty fitting ending to all the trouble, but like some others have observed, Matsuri and Yorito have changed way too much from what they were at the beginning. Character development is one thing, but turning into different people altogether is something else altogether. I joined the Sola bandwagon because of the cute interaction between Matsuri and Yorito, yet it's become almost nonexistent at the end of this series. The few minutes of them pretending to be at the cinema just isn't enough.

Nice fighting scenes all the way, but Aono's power-levelling has become too much. I mean, the house being a paper dollhouse is okay, but two clones and manipulating so much of the terrain via remote control?! Like some people said, HAX, and it's pretty depressing to see Matsuri getting beat around all the time again. Not as much as I thought it would be, however, since I'm not feeling as much love for Matsuri as I used to. She's changed too much for that.

Not to mention Matsuri's continuing display of a relative lack of any intelligence whatsoever. Seriously, hasn't she learned by her first fight with Aono by now? Takeshi's sword is well and all, but she should have been at least smart enough to procure Takeshi's supply of light darts as well. Brainless. >_<

And the sparce flashback scenes still don't provide enough of a background; at this point in the series, it's far too late for that, now. They should have given the full story on what happened in the past in a continuous segment, like AIR (TV) did with the Summer Arc; as it is, we don't really get enough treatment with the plight of the characters during the feudal era, to empathize with their motivations in the present day.

With all that said and all, I'm giving this episode a 7. It has its nice bits (projector showing the sky, nice little intimate scene between Sola-baka and Matsuri at the beginning, otherwise decent fighting scenes), but there are just too many negatives to give it a higher score. And 7 is most likely the score I'll give the Sola series as a whole in my Final Critique, too; it might well become a series that I'll throw into the "Needs a 2-cour KyoAni remake" category.

And my predictions for Episode 13?

Morimiya Aono is a regular girl. She lives in a large house (with her parents/alone, because her parents are away on business), and her hobbies include taking photos of the sky, and collecting weird dolls. She goes to school with her best friend Ishizuki Mana, and teaches the art of origami to the latter's imouto Koyori. We see some funny scenes, including the infamous Koyori head-chop for whatever reasons. As far as she knows, she's just a normal teenage girl; but she has no memories of who she was, nor of Yorito or Matsuri. And she's happy the way she is.

In the end, as the sun is setting, Aono returns home. In the distance, we see a young couple who looks strangely familiar......

:D

EDIT: Wow. A gutter-voting silent troll aside, I'm the lowest voter of this episode. :heh:

xat

2007-06-25, 02:24

In the end I think the shortcomings I'm perceiving in sola are due to a common problem with shows like this: it's not long enough. I have a feeling I would like this show much more if it were longer, and thus the turning points were a bit more gradual.

Skane

2007-06-25, 03:04

I'm actually in disagreement with a lot of the negative points mentioned in this thread (and confounded by some of the disappointments), but I will hold back my thoughts until I have catch up with my write-ups for Ep10-11.

Cheers.

Mirrinus

2007-06-25, 03:08

Well now, I finally caught up with this show (which I began...earlier today). Since origami is listed under my interests, you can bet any papermastery battles will make me giddy. Still, I must say, the main triangle of characters are rather getting on my nerves still. Why must they all believe that the solution to every problem is either murder or suicide? I think the show peaked in episode 9 with the story of Takeshi and Mayuko. At least Mayuko had the brains to realize that the death of anyone would still bring pain to the others.

At this rate, I can see some possibilities:

1. No one dies in the end. If so, this would feel like a total cop-out. I'm very much hoping that this is not the case. Yes, I do think all the fighting and killing in the last arc is kinda pointless and ill thought out, but since the writers have already dug themselves into this hole, they have to keep going with it.

2. Either Matsuri or Aono dies, and the other is made human. Yorito lives by some deux ex machina, and the girl who survives ends up with him. However, since someone had to die to bring this about, I think any relationship that can be forged will be tainted.

3. Either Matsuri or Aono dies, and the other is made human. Yorito dies as well. Whichever girl survives will of course be burdened with immense guilt. I'm hoping she doesn't commit suicide, as that will only prove how stupid everyone is acting right now anyway.

4. Either Matsuri or Aono dies, and the other is made human. Yorito lives by some deux ex machina, and the girl who survives ends up with him. Except this time, whichever girl survives gets memory wiped, and lives a normal life with Mana and Koyori. Somewhat happy ending...but memory wipes totally cheapen all the relationships that have been built up. I'd feel rather cheated with such an ending myself.

5. Either Matsuri or Aono dies, and the other is made human. Yorito dies as well. Whichever girl survives gets memory wiped and lives a normal life with Mana and Koyori. See above for what I think of memory wipes.

6. All 3 die in some epic and angsty battle, Mana and Koyori live happily ever after and maybe befriend Mayuko and Takeshi. This is actually the ending I'm rooting for. But who am I kidding, I'll take any ending that features ample Mayuko and Takeshi.

So yeah, I'm somewhat disappointed with the whole Yorito/Matsuri/Aono dynamic, despite the presence of paper-related weaponry. I blame Yorito, who makes me want to punch him in the face. Sakai Yuuji of SnS handled the revelation of his being dead way better than Yorito did, and Yuuji is nowhere near my list of favorite male leads. But Takeshi and Mayuko are pure <3, so I will continue with the last episode just to see what happens to them.

FreedomMS

2007-06-25, 03:50

i was curious about the video of Sora .Who made that video.It can't be the present yorito as he was shock as well..do u think is the past yorito who make that???

holyman282

2007-06-25, 04:02

i was curious about the video of Sora .Who made that video.It can't be the present yorito as he was shock as well..do u think is the past yorito who make that???

First of all considering that i'm sure the yorito in the past lived in an era without any sort of recording device whatsoever, there would be no chance that this sky was recorded by the old Yorito.... I somehow get this feeling that the film of the sky was just placed there to add fuel to the already dramatic scene....

By the way considering that there would be 2 dvd exclusives i'm thinking maybe they won't all die.... That's if the show will be continued in the 2 exclusive eps...

Although i have a feeling that the dvd specials will be just random comedic acts....

Ned Fletcher

2007-06-25, 04:32

EDIT: Wow. A gutter-voting silent troll aside, I'm the lowest voter of this episode.

I may be gutter-voting, and fairly silent, but a troll I am not! For you see, I do not live under a bridge, and ask people three questions so that they can cross said bridge. If you actually care to read my rant as to why I found this episode "painful" feel free, but I'm sure many would just find it a annoying rant. I put it inside of spoilers so those who want can just skip it.

I gave this episode such a bad rating because it was where everything that I thought was bad and did not like was put together with even more stuff added in.

The personal way I saw the events is in this order,

When Aono was about to leave to be the sacrifice to the Yaka she did not seem too upset, her reasons being because she would be saving people.
When she wasn't sacrificed and then found out that Yorito died, she would have put blame on herself thinking that if only she had been sacrificed this would not have happened.
She committed suicide to avoid the pain of losing Yorito, and Matsuri brought her back to life so that Matsuri would not be lonely.
Aono had to live without Yorito, which seemed to be her entire reason for existing. So she then spent all that time re-creating Yorito so she could be with him again.
While she was in the hospital, most likely recovering from her creation of Yorito, creation of memories, and all of their belongs, Matsuri comes along and imposes her self in their lives again.
Matsuri tries to steal Yorito, so that he would be with her and she would not be alone. Aono tells Matsuri not to interfere and she leaves only to apear again, against the promise. Aono hunts her down and decides NOT to kill her.
Matsuri then trains with Takeshi's sword and tells Yorito what he really is.
Mana, Koyori, and everyone else Yorito and Aono knew in that town lose their memories of them. Matsuri then tells Aono that Yorito, the brother that she loves and dedicated her life to bringing to life is with Matsuri now.
The battle between Matsuri and Aono begins, the battle was fairly one sided with Aono winning and Matsuri looking week, which after the training she had done with Takeshi's sword should not have been so one sided. Eventually Yorito interfered which enabled Matsuri to do what she was planning, which looks like she is turning Aono into a human due to the fact she stabbed herself first thus fulfulling the whole "Kill a Yaka to make another Human again".

Now my seeming obsession with Aono is not the only reason as to why I did not like this episode, I thought that the amazing amount of power Aono showed in this episode was over the top. While I can understand her being powerful after spending a really long time trying to find a way to create bodies from scratch and bind memories/souls to them can give one experience and make one more skilled, the amount of stuff she did was absurd and out of place.

Also the drastic out of character actions of Yorito was very annoying, he finds his life pointless just because he is not made out of flesh? Does he not seem to notice that he can still see, feel, taste, touch, and smell? And that he has a soul and his own memories? I saw him as a rather optimistic person in the beginning of the series, and suddenly he was amazingly pessimistic and did not even try to logic it at all. Even Matsuri had some out of character things, like her going from just wanting to be left alone and not hurt really hurt anyone to suddenly wanting to hurt Aono, after Aono had decided to not kill Matsuri at the train station. I was not really bothered by Aono at all so far as "out of character" actions, as seeing she was pretty nuts the entire series.

As far as I could see, the most likely ending seemed to be Matsuri killing herself to make Aono human again, and in that Yorito would also disappear because Aono is no longer a Yaka. I found this extremely hypocritical of Matsuri, she resurrected Aono so that she would not be alone, and now she will be the cause of Aono being all alone without any way to resurrect the only thing that matters to her. This just seemed cruel without reason other than spite.

In retrospective I should not have rated the episode as badly as I did, the artwork is great, and despite the things above, I do like the series. I find Mayuko and Takeshi awesome, I really hope they are in the last episode. And naturally I like Koyori. I should have rated the episode at a four or so... but thats forcing myself.

I do apologize for my excessively low rating, I'm sure part of it came from as I was clicking to vote my PMs opened and that "getalife" guy messaged me the ending to Death Note... And being on a Anime forum. I'm sure to some extent you can understand why that would leave one distressed... Anywho, feel free to flame me in the PM system if you think I'm a jerk-face stupid-head.

arkxkra

2007-06-25, 04:48

tis episode awesome...

matsuri look like want to take yorito away in the begining, but in the end stab herself to trade life for aono....so pain when saw matsuri stab herself T_T... the sky is so beautiful during the climax.... donno next episode will how...

felix

2007-06-25, 05:11

And my predictions for Episode 13?

Morimiya Aono is a regular girl. She lives in a large house (with her parents/alone, because her parents are away on business), and her hobbies include taking photos of the sky, and collecting weird dolls. She goes to school with her best friend Ishizuki Mana, and teaches the art of origami to the latter's imouto Koyori. We see some funny scenes, including the infamous Koyori head-chop for whatever reasons. As far as she knows, she's just a normal teenage girl; but she has no memories of who she was, nor of Yorito or Matsuri. And she's happy the way she is.

In the end, as the sun is setting, Aono returns home. In the distance, we see a young couple who looks strangely familiar......

:D

We're talking about the same person who made Air and Kanon right? Then you have my vote...
The only question is what are they going to throw in for the first part of the episode.

~ Ned Fletcher

You have some good points and you also have some exaggerated points :heh:
~ I think for most people it's just a matter of weather or not you like the show (as in: presentation)

----
I too feel that at some point (for me it was when the Matsuri Vs. Aono plot started) the bonds between the characters just got scraped for the sake of dramatic plot ~ personally I would have loved to see less exiting plot and more character development. They could have just made Takeshi agent of secret organisation (no details) and just left it at that for the rest of the show, and I would have been happy.

Ascaloth

2007-06-25, 05:39

@Ned Fletcher,

There, now if you had explained your views at the beginning, I would have merely thought of you as being harsh instead of terming you as a troll, and offered a lot more respect to you than I did. Like Cats said, you have some good points, and then you have some exaggerated points. And I actually do agree on some of these points, but like I said, you're just being harsh. :)

Personally, I don't agree with point 6; to me that's an oversimplification, and simply missing the point altogether. But otherwise, you make some pretty good points, and they're points that I even made, myself; truly, Sola suffers in the fact that it traded in its strength, character development, for some questionable plot development. Which is why I said that Sola needs a remake; and c'mon, who would disagree that KyoAni's colour palette would suit it well? :p

xat

2007-06-25, 06:04

Which is why I said that Sola needs a remake; and c'mon, who would disagree that KyoAni's colour palette would suit it well? :p

I wouldn't mind working on a remake... :)

Skyfall

2007-06-25, 06:16

I pretty much agree with Ascaloth's predictions on ep13, and it pretty much goes with my own thoughts that ep12 is the climax, and 13 the aftermath. I wouldn't be surprised at all if at the beginning of ep13 we get some slice-of-life scene featuring Aono and friends :)

As for the show on the whole ... i can't help but feel rather distant to all the events happening. I still like it above anything else i am getting this season, but not nearly as much as i liked it in the beginning. If my memory serves me right, somewhere along the first episodes i mentioned that i feel the Matsuri x Yorito interactions are rather crucial to the show, and it would lose a good deal of its charm without it ... and this is what i basically see taking effect now.

Sola is a story that is rather dependent on its characters, and the most interesting part of it (Matsuri x Yorito) got taken away just past the halfway point. While the mystery and unpredictability of the plot is something i highly appreciate and enjoy, i can't help but feel it came at the expense of some character depth, because the mystery relied on us not knowing the details behind what makes the character tick.

That didn't matter much as long as we had the Matsuri x Yorito interactions, as those were very interesting, entertaining and overall likable. After that we were left with the bunch angsting in separate corners of the city for several episodes, for reasons not completely understandable to us.

While it isn't nearly as bad as my post might make it sound, it managed to accomplish one thing - degrade the bond i had with all of the characters. (Mana might be an exception).

Yes - i do love Matsuri, but my liking towards her is rooted heavily in the first half of the show. While it was painful seeing her get bashed around, it wasn't nearly as painful as it would have been in the earlier stages of the show.

I used to hate Aono with a passion and she surely hasn't done anything for my opinion to change, and i still think she needs a mental therapy asap... but in the end - hate is a strong emotion, and i don't feel like i care enough to be bothered with continuing to hate her.

Yorito ... still don't know what i think of him at this moment, so i am withholding any comments for now :) As it is now, i find Takeshi and rozen-loli to be more interesting to observe :)

I am looking towards the ending very much, but i can already tell it is not going to have the emotional impact it had the potential of delivering. In the end, the series strong point appeared to be its weakest point as well - Matsuri's and Yorito's interactions. Perhaps only 13 episodes is not enough for it.

Cheers!
(Adding "Cheers" in the end as it seems to creep Ascaloth out).

Ascaloth

2007-06-25, 06:29

Cheers!
(Adding "Cheers" in the end as it seems to creep Ascaloth out).

It does. This forum only needs one Skane-sama. :heh:

Thentus

2007-06-25, 17:14

To simplify my thoughts, the ending of sola is either going to be one of the greatest endings ever, OR the entire series could fall apart right here. The plot has been changed and has surprised us throughout the series, I think.

Deathkillz

2007-06-25, 18:14

I used to hate Aono with a passion and she surely hasn't done anything for my opinion to change, and i still think she needs a mental therapy asap... but in the end - hate is a strong emotion, and i don't feel like i care enough to be bothered with continuing to hate her.

Yorito ... still don't know what i think of him at this moment, so i am withholding any comments for now :) As it is now, i find Takeshi and rozen-loli to be more interesting to observe :)
[/SIZE]
soon "dislike" will become love :3 come over to the light side sky! ^.^

as for yorito...if you think that takeshixmayuko is more interesting then it just goes to show what a boring yaro he is...and i agree...for a main character i seriously cant care less for yorito atm...he is as 2D as ever and nothing has been done to develop his character...a major flaw for this series imo >.<

Nemesis2124

2007-06-25, 18:21

I'm curious about something in this episode, and I haven't seen much posted about it either. I realize the ultimate goal was to provoke Aono, but when I first heard the conversation on the roof early on, I was under the impression that Matsuri's sentiments there were legitimate. I mean, it just seemed too verbose, heartfelt and thematically on-target to be only a ploy. But, after reading a few comments here and there, I'm not exactly sure anymore.

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts that may tilt my view one way or the other.

EDIT: @Deathkillz

I've always considered Yorito to be a neutral point more than anything. Not great, but not exactly a detriment either. Frankly though, I thought he was pretty good in 12. His defiance really increased my enjoyment of the episode.

Icerack

2007-06-25, 19:24

Much like others, I've started to like Yorito and Matsuri less after they just spontaneously decided that they knew what was best for everyone. No doubt that this series should've been more than 13 episodes as everything just went by so fast and there wasn't enough time to develop the characters. My thoughts for next episode is that it'll be concentrated completely on the past resolving what happened then and tying up loose ends. Either that or we'll get the cliffhanger and will have ot wait for the DVDs.

johnishida

2007-06-25, 20:01

Just watched the Ep! Cant believe everything happened just as I thought it would! Though, for a moment, I actually believed in Matsuri's in the beginning of the episode.

Can't wait for next week!

xat

2007-06-26, 00:03

...for a main character i seriously cant care less for yorito atm...he is as 2D as ever and nothing has been done to develop his character...a major flaw for this series imo >.<

He's made out of paper after all. ;)

Mirrinus

2007-06-26, 00:13

It's pretty lame to be made out of paper if it doesn't afford you any special powers. And no, being flammable doesn't count.

For a guy that's made out of paper, I find it kinda funny how often he goes out into the rain. The extremely convenient rain summoned by the power of plot necessity.

kazune-kun

2007-06-26, 01:29

Wow.. 9/10 the Matsuri vs Aono showdown scene was so good. (I take back what I said before.. Aono doesnt annoy me as much anymore. Her VA did a good job @ especially when she yelled, "You're the one who made things like this!") Her paper clones reminded me of kage bushin no jutsu :D she should be in Naruto

dojikyo

2007-06-26, 02:08

7. Kind of a step back from the previous episode on the drama front. That and Aono is overpowered. Multiple clones, clone bombs that lead into more setups. The action sequences, despite their flaws, continue to be pretty interesting.

niwasatou

2007-06-26, 03:41

9/10
First of all, for Aono.
Second, for the flashback scenes, especially the one in the beginning. It was nice to see the three together and getting along (understatement!).
Third, the miracle movie of the sky suddenly starting to play. :heh: The dramatic pause in movement aside from the clouds was clichéd but pulled off well nonetheless (IMO).

xat

2007-06-26, 08:46

On a different note, I wonder how Takeshi/Mayuko will be managed. Takeshi is still ageing. I'd love to see perhaps a spin-off series/ova detailing the dynamics of their relationship as Takeshi approaches a possible end. In fact, I wouldn't mind a special that goes into Takeshi's conscience as he ages, starting from when Mayuko becomes a yaka.

Skyfall

2007-06-26, 09:21

^ That might as well be one of the things we will get to see in one of the two DVD only episodes. Or we might see it in the last episode, if indeed turns out to be "X amount of time later".

zetsumei

2007-06-26, 09:27

Wow, what an awesome episode; really well executed. Sola is definitely one of the top 5 anime of the season.

stonedzombie

2007-06-26, 19:30

rimaa

2007-06-26, 22:06

I cant see how the ending will be any good unless someone dies

Sorrow-K

2007-06-27, 07:27

Unpredictable my ass. Kyuusai had this pegged a fortnight ago and others (myself included) agreed it was the most likely path, given the characters. Expect a cookie in your direction.

Ok, this show has lost me. I can no longer see enough positives in it to say it's better than anything average. I mean, sure, we finally got the character background, but it's all too late, and it just wasn't engrossing enough for me to find a reason to care about these characters. Hell, it wasn't even properly detailed. The setting of Aono, Matsuri and Yorito's first meeting was just a background, and it was so arbitrary that they could have been anywhere, in any time, and it wouldn't have made a difference. We still know virtually nothing about these individual characters themselves, just the bare necessary information to understand their relationships... hell, I'd say a lot of their emotions for one another are almost arbitrary as well; I mean, we can see the girls both love Yorito, but why? The whole thing just feels as if it hasn't been properly fleshed out... and, by proxy, the same thing can be said about these characters.

Speaking of characters that haven't been properly fleshed out, when did Yorito decide he wanted to die. Even after he found out he was an illusion, it never seemed as if he rued life as he claimed in this episode, and I couldn't see any obvious reason why he wanted to end his existence, even he wasn't real. And what happened to Matsuri's "I don't care if you're an illusion/you are "you/[insert tacky dialogue here]" of just a few episodes ago? The sudden and drastic change from this to "omg we have to kill Matsuri and change Aono back to human to save Yorito from his constant living hell" is incredibly jarring and inconsistent.

Most of the time with this series, it feels like the plot twists are done purely for the sake of having plot twists, rather than to tell an engaging story with sympathetic characters, and that's cheap story telling, if you ask me. It feels as if the strategy with the story telling is for frequent, short term, sudden impact rather than a longer lasting and more engaging approach that keeps the audience absorbed via a layered and complex story, with layered and complex characters. Anyway, as I've said earlier, what good are all these twists and turns when there's not much reason to care about these characters anyway.

...why and how the film of the sky started up when it did. Who did that? Was it Matsuri? How?

It looks now as if Aono will be left alone, but I look forward to yet another twist in the final episode.

Sometime during the fight earlier (18:21 mark), an electric current started flowing to the movie projector. I assume that it reached the blue sky part right as Matsuri was approaching the other two.
DEM. Electric currents don't just start by themselves, and films showing blue skies don't just suddenly roll just as three people that have a deep, personal link with the sky are about to go through the defining event of their lives. It's seriously disappointing that this series has had to resort to so many DEMs, but, really, it's just another flaw in a list of many in this show.

Barring an unforseeable miracle in the final ep, I think my verdict of this series will be something along the lines of "melodramatic tripe, with bland, poorly fleshed out characters and an inconsistent plot". I'm incredibly disappointed with this show.

Skane

2007-06-27, 08:25

Harsh, but perhaps, not totally unwarranted. :heh: Personally, my overall opinion of the series is still very cordial. I readily concede that there has been flaws though, and I get the nagging feeling that the scriptwriters did not prepare the storyboard properly prior to the series' production, which led to problems for the episodes after the mid-point.
~~~~ ~~~~

That aside, it has been bugging me on how Aono has been the proverbial punching bag in sola. At times, it feels like she is being hounded by an Evangelist.

"Relax, I know what's best for you."
"Get away from me, you psycho bitch!"

Matsuri's "Holier Than Thou" attitude is a bit hard to swallow, and her sudden departure from her pacifist leanings is brain-numbing. Bringing Aono back to life was a mistake? Maybe, but killing Aono is a mistake too!

Two Wrongs Do Not Make A Right!

Aono was not exactly going on a murdering rampage and committing crimes against humanity. She lost her suicidal tendencies and actually attempted to lead a normal life, Paper-Golem Yorito aside.

She made friends, allowed Yorito to have free thought, and lived a peaceful life in general; and then Matsuri came.

Oh sure... Aono lost some self-control, but did she kill Matsuri? No. Did she reset Yorito? No. Did she force her way through Mana to get to Yorito? No.

No, no, no, no.

She did not even take advantage of Matsuri's stabbing to finish her off. There were so many opportunities where Aono could have taken the darkened path and become the witch that so many people seem to be fond of painting her as, but she did not, and that is something to seriously take note of.

She already SURRENDERED Yorito to Matsuri, but even that was not enough for Matsuri? GOOD FREAKING GRIEF! Oh no, instead, Miss Can-Do-No-Wrong had to aggravate Aono into fighting her. By the grace of Aiur! Why, Matsuri, why?
~~~~ ~~~~

Seriousness aside, some light-hearted speculation.

[What If...]

As Matsuri plunges the sword towards Aono, Aono smiles and shifts her body so that the sword will hit Yorito as well. The pair are shocked as Aono dissipates into a pile of paper. Another clone!

Struck by the sword while it was infused with the essence of Matsuri's life, Yorito becomes human while Matsuri dies. Meanwhile, Aono smiles in the darkness somewhere else and retains her Yaka powers. :p

The epilogue shows Aono leading a normal life with Mana and Koyori once again, while Yorito wonders who that girl with a sky umbrella is in his photo album.
~~~~ ~~~~

Cheers.

Ascaloth

2007-06-27, 09:37

In the earlier episodes of this series, I had wondered why Sorrow-K was being so needlessly harsh towards Sola, and there were several times when I was tempted to shift into HARUHI-MODE and start one of my infamous arguments with him. Nevertheless, I held back because he had a pretty strong argument for his views, and I agreed with him on quite a few points. I had a more optimistic view on Sola because, the way I saw it, the series still had quite a few episodes to cover everything that it needed to cover, so I was more willing to give it a chance.

At this point in time though, I feel like I have little choice but to fall in line on Sorrow-K's side. With all the time it had at its disposal, Nomad blew it all on the unimportant bits, and didn't give nearly enough time to the parts which mattered. It is a crying shame; to see a premise with so much potential go to such waste. What could have been a great tragic story, became instead an average action flick. I wouldn't call this a $unrise-class trainwreck, but sure as hell, it's become something of a disappointment to me. Decent does not do justice to what could have been great.

I don't think Episode 13, no matter how it ends this series, will greatly change my impression of Sola. Therefore, keeping in mind that I took two full weeks to write my huge-ass Final Critique for Kanon 2006, I think I'll start on the Sola Final Critique now, so I can post it up just in time when the Final Impressions thread opens.

Tom Bombadil

2007-06-27, 15:21

And my predictions for Episode 13?

Morimiya Aono is a regular girl. She lives in a large house (with her parents/alone, because her parents are away on business), and her hobbies include taking photos of the sky, and collecting weird dolls.

:D

Add kicking vending machines to that list and I would be happy to see it ends this way.

Deathkillz

2007-06-27, 16:20

oh how i just love to see matsuri's repuation for being right crumble into tiny pieces...likewise how aono is turning out to be the victim this time round ~ (though everyone must have forgotten about what happened to matsuri beforehand or maybe dont care? :p)
i still say that its out of character for matsuri to be doing such things...but if it was yorito's idea the maybe that guy isnt all good after all ~ im torn between thinking that matsuri decided to change her plan or maybe that was the plan in the first place...the "lets disappear" together part could also mean death together (seen as yorito will be nomore when aono loses her yaka powers)...

epilogue ~ aono is given a second life (heartbreaking end is about 90% methinks O.o)

~~~~ ~~~~

Seriousness aside, some light-hearted speculation.

[What If...]

As Matsuri plunges the sword towards Aono, Aono smiles and shifts her body so that the sword will hit Yorito as well. The pair are shocked as Aono dissipates into a pile of paper. Another clone!

Struck by the sword while it was infused with the essence of Matsuri's life, Yorito becomes human while Matsuri dies. Meanwhile, Aono smiles in the darkness somewhere else and retains her Yaka powers. :p

The epilogue shows Aono leading a normal life with Mana and Koyori once again, while Yorito wonders who that girl with a sky umbrella is in his photo album.
~~~~ ~~~~

Cheers.
would have worked if yorito was a yaka :p (but i must admit you had me going for a minute there :heh:)

orion

2007-06-27, 17:55

Yeah, it's hard to see Yorito and Matsuri pulling out of this one alive. :sad: Maybe, Mayuko has a deux ex hidden in her rabbit doll. ;)

I agree with Skane. 2 wrongs do not make a right. Aono being the only one left alive without friends, family or a home just doesn't seem right imo.

Oh well, here's hoping for a miracle. :)

Mirrinus

2007-06-27, 19:57

I'm in agreement with a lot of you guys on this page. I find it difficult to like or care for the 3 main characters, so I honestly just don't feel engaged to find out what happens at the end. I think what really drove the final nail into the coffin on this one was the dearth of information concerning what happened 400 years ago or whenever, back during Yorito and Aono's former life as humans. They could have pulled something like the Summer arc of AIR, which I thought was pretty well done. I would have loved to see that for Sola. But no, we're given a few meager clips blabbing about Yaka sacrifices that left more questions than answers. Why was Aono chosen to be the sacrifice? How did Matsuri and Aono become friends? How did Yorito know where to find them? How did Yorito know that Aono was still even alive? Where is my feudal japan slice of life? Why does Matsuri love Yorito? What was Yorito doing in that house when he was killed? When something as important as their backstory is not properly explained, it's no longer tragic: it's just confusing.

I also personally don't find suicide to be all that tragic. I think it's more moving to watch a person press on despite overwhelming adversity both without and within. When a character just decides to give up and die, I tend to lose a lot of respect for them. That's not tragic; that's just pitiful (there's an important difference). It's even worse when I don't even know why they want to die. As Sorrow-K has pointed out, this show has been rather vague and inconsistant with explaining why Yorito wants to die. Is it to force Aono to move on with her life? Is it because he accepts that he's already dead and doesn't want to live on anymore? Is it because he just wants to take the wimpy lead male stereotype to a new height?

I admit, I rather liked Sola's premise, and I still love Takeshi and Mayuko. But honestly, the Yorito/Matsuri/Aono dynamic just isn't working for me...they're just lucky I'm a sucker for paper user battles.

Nemesis2124

2007-06-27, 20:44

Sorrow-K

2007-06-27, 20:53

I think a few of us set expectations too high simply because there was a Kanon staffer on-board, and the premise had a lot of potential... but the reason why Kanon and Air are so special is because well executed visual novel conversions are rare. It's reality that we aren't going to see titles in this genre as good as those particular ones every season... which is all the more reason why those particular titles deserve all the acclaim they get.

I also feel that, in the last few episodes, seeing these not-so sympathetic lead characters has made me appreciate the side characters more. Unlike the lead characters, I can't say I didn't like any of the side characters... which makes it all the more disappointing that they only got the time in the spotlight that they did. It all reminds me of Fate/Stay Night in that respect... we have a cast of very interesting and enigmatic side characters that unfortunately get shafted in favour of a set of very bland and not very likable lead characters.

Mirrinus

2007-06-27, 22:12

I also feel that, in the last few episodes, seeing these not-so sympathetic lead characters has made me appreciate the side characters more. Unlike the lead characters, I can't say I didn't like any of the side characters... which makes it all the more disappointing that they only got the time in the spotlight that they did. It all reminds me of Fate/Stay Night in that respect... we have a cast of very interesting and enigmatic side characters that unfortunately get shafted in favour of a set of very bland and not very likable lead characters.

Heh, I agree. I like pretty much every single side character (except maybe Sae) more than all 3 of the main characters. They're probably the main reason why I still think Sola was at least worth watching.

xat

2007-06-28, 08:09

Having recently gotten my hands onto the first sola dvd, I decided to check out the first episode... I think it's worth revisiting to see just how much of a departure there has been between then and now--it really hit me during the first few moments when Yorito meets Matsuri.

... I hope sola 13 is good.

Edit: clarifying something. The shift of pace/story isn't necessarily a bad thing, but to me it feels less wonderful than it could have been.

Owaranai Destiny

2007-06-28, 09:15

Perhaps the one big flaw in sola is that the directors tried to overplay the tragedy theme. It did struck me when the possibility of one of the Yakas dying that they might have lost their plot somewhere in the middle, and the amount of unanswered questions certainly didn't help.

Atmosphere-wise, a few of the scenes were pretty good, especially with the Mana-centric episode. I would call that more of a tragedy, perhaps, than what is deemed to be the typical ending by most for sola regarding Aono's fate.

Mizuno

2007-06-28, 09:18

I liked Aono's Unlimited Paper Works and Paper Bunshins. She's definitely more powerful than Matsuri.

So by stabbing Aono, if she changes into a normal human then Yorito will disappear, as well as Matsuri from the wound. Meaning Aono will be the only one left, possibly losing her memory of Yorito.

Kaoru Chujo

2007-06-28, 11:53

Well, I'm glad that people are finally starting to see Matsuri's true character. Not as some "epitome of benevolence", but as a sad person whose actions are driven by her deep-rooted darkness. One could say that she exists on that same plane of gray that Aono does. And frankly, that's part of why I like this show....I agree with this, to a great extent. But I also agree that by wandering off into complexities of plot and leaving Matsuri out of it for too long, the show lost something.

However, just because this isn't a great show, that doesn't mean it isn't a good one. I continue to expect each succeeding episode to clear up some of the apparent plot holes -- which many episodes have done up to now. I don't grasp Matsuri's motivations in ep12, but I'm eager to see how they are explained at the end. Once again, I want to judge a show on its own terms, not by some external standard of how characters should be built, how plot should be arranged, etc.

The "Kanon writer" was a big draw, but we knew before the show started that he was the secondary writer. Nevertheless, they would have to mess up the last episode quite a bit -- which I don't expect they will -- to make this less than a very enjoyable show, for me. I look forward to it every week. I didn't feel a sure hand behind everything, but I like the show quite a bit anyway.

Unlike many, I do like and care for all three main characters, even if Yorito has been a bit of a blank for much of the show -- he's made of blank paper, after all, lol. I prefer my characters to have faults, like real people. Of course, I even like Sae. I think Koshimizu Ami is doing a great job to make a minor character so striking. And I think both Shimizu Ai and, especially, Honda Youko, have done well with Koyori and Mana.

By the way, I certainly do not see this show as "melodramatic." For me, there was too little melodrama, if anything. And they may not have made the tragedy strong enough for me, rather than overplaying it. At least so far. But this muffling of the emotion was part of the show's style, it seems to me, for better or worse. In part, I have to admit that the muffled emotion was because we were not as close to the characters emotionally as we are in some other shows -- Kanon, for example.

Icerack

2007-06-28, 19:09

Heh, I agree. I like pretty much every single side character (except maybe Sae) more than all 3 of the main characters. They're probably the main reason why I still think Sola was at least worth watching.
Mana's the best! They should give her a more important role!

Guardian Enzo

2007-06-28, 20:45

I agree with this, to a great extent. But I also agree that by wandering off into complexities of plot and leaving Matsuri out of it for too long, the show lost something.

Unlike many, I do like and care for all three main characters, even if Yorito has been a bit of a blank for much of the show -- he's made of blank paper, after all, lol. I prefer my characters to have faults, like real people. Of course, I even like Sae. I think Koshimizu Ami is doing a great job to make a minor character so striking. And I think both Shimizu Ai and, especially, Honda Youko, have done well with Koyori and Mana.

By the way, I certainly do not see this show as "melodramatic." For me, there was too little melodrama, if anything. And they may not have made the tragedy strong enough for me, rather than overplaying it. At least so far. But this muffling of the emotion was part of the show's style, it seems to me, for better or worse. In part, I have to admit that the muffled emotion was because we were not as close to the characters emotionally as we are in some other shows -- Kanon, for example.

Agree here - I think this show was the antithesis of melodramatic, and that made the moments of high drama more impacting. While Kanon very much took the view of immersion in the (incredibly dynamic) emotional lives of the characters, Sola has been more of detached observation. And that's not a bad thing, IMO - I think the material itself has such inherent drama and scope that a Kanon-like approach would have put it over the top.

As for the ending, well - I'm still not comfortable on an interpretation yet. But I will say this much - it's hard for me to see the sympathy for Aono here. In my view, she's clearly the villain in this piece, albeit a tragic one.

Owaranai Destiny

2007-06-28, 21:12

Agree here - I think this show was the antithesis of melodramatic, and that made the moments of high drama more impacting. While Kanon very much took the view of immersion in the (incredibly dynamic) emotional lives of the characters, Sola has been more of detached observation. And that's not a bad thing, IMO - I think the material itself has such inherent drama and scope that a Kanon-like approach would have put it over the top.

As for the ending, well - I'm still not comfortable on an interpretation yet. But I will say this much - it's hard for me to see the sympathy for Aono here. In my view, she's clearly the villain in this piece, albeit a tragic one.

Detached observation or having a close-up at the characters in either show serves different purposes and different preferences, of course. It simply depends on which type one prefers. I don't particularly think sola to be terribly disappointing (even with the expectations which came with the information about having a Kanon writer around), but neither did it strike me well like i thought it would when I first picked it up.

Aono isn't really a villain-No one is. She's more like a 'victim of the circumstances'. Of course, her own conviction in 'bringing back' Yorito played a own part in her behaviour now. Besides, I don't find it especially villainous that she acted the way she did against Matsuri. It's pretty normal to hate someone whom you believed did something cruel to you, after all.

Guardian Enzo

2007-06-28, 21:24

kct

2007-06-28, 21:34

Perhaps the one big flaw in sola is that the directors tried to overplay the tragedy theme. It did struck me when the possibility of one of the Yakas dying that they might have lost their plot somewhere in the middle, and the amount of unanswered questions certainly didn't help.

It's 2 things. To please either themselves, or to please the fans. Making an anime in Japan is not an easy thing, you got to please both sides.

Of course, now the only thing we should try to avoid (especially with the coming of episode 13) is another post by Kaoshin_Sama on 'how sola can fail because of the Kanon writer'.

rg4619

2007-06-29, 00:16

My feelings on sola haven't changed since Ep. 1. To me, the series has always been a relaxing, worthwhile watch (not great, but still a guilty pleasure, which is the minimum I desire from a show) despite some questionable direction and script work. Some early episodes suffered from hokey dialogue, while recent ones have been hurt by forced melodrama (characteristic of many bishoujo game stories) and awkward plot twists.

The structure incorporating the (underdeveloped) Minagi and Kano stories made the first half choppy and unfocused and plot devices ridiculously forced pathos thanks to curse details like memory loss, obstruction to making friends, close relationships causing someone to die, etc. In this regard, Kanon is about as far as I'd like a writer to go. of AIR actually annoyed me more, but then again, I had high expectations that time (and no expectations for sola, which hasn't disappointed) given the reputation of the game.

Owaranai Destiny

2007-06-29, 00:58

Please don't for an instant think that was a dig at Kanon - Uguu! I adore that story. I just think the emotional approach was appropriate for the material there, just as the contrary approach was for Sola. As for Aono, well - I guess villain is a relative term. It's a complicated tale in which no one (save perhaps Yorito) is free of a laundry list of things to feel guilty about. But one tends to need an axis of right and wrong to orient around in a series like this, and its Aono, for me, who drives most of the negative karma.

No, no...I never felt that it was a dig at Kanon at all. Only when Sorrow-K mentioned it did I realise that there are bound to be some people out there who place their expectations as such with no reference to you. ;)

It's 2 things. To please either themselves, or to please the fans. Making an anime in Japan is not an easy thing, you got to please both sides.

Never said it was, never thought it is ever going to be easy pleasing everyone. Making a show to please oneself isn't generally going to get far-Unless it so happens that they have rather high standards and are able to cover most things in terms of expectations.
Of course, now the only thing we should try to avoid (especially with the coming of episode 13) is another post by Kaoshin_Sama on 'how sola can fail because of the Kanon writer'.

All the more he's going to rant on that. :heh:

Skane

2007-06-29, 02:00

~
But one tends to need an axis of right and wrong to orient around in a series like this, and its Aono, for me, who drives most of the negative karma.
Enlighten me please. In what way?! :twitch:

If anything, Matsuri has been more of an antagonist, and Takeshi. What wrong has Aono wrought that eclipses the wrongs by the other two?

The path to Hell is paved with good intentions, and Matsuri and Takeshi are the prime examples of this particular saying. Aono is no Saint, but neither is she a villain.

Crikey!

cshard

2007-06-29, 10:46

Something amusing just occurred to me when reading the last post.

Seems to me like the common factor between Matsuri and Takeshi is that weird Yaka Blade. In the early episodes, Takeshi used it against Matsuri and he was pretty much a villian about it. Then in episode 10, Matsuri shows up with it, along with a change in personality.

We all know what's happened since then. :heh:

It's all the sword's fault I say! :D

KaneDragon

2007-06-29, 10:47

It's a shame, Aono has crazy papercut hax powers, but if she gets turned back into a human... T_T

Better choice would be to just have Aono create paper suits for her and Matsuri to walk around in, something that just looks like skin. Yorrito was walking around just fine, so it's not like her magical origami breaks down in sunlight...

Guardian Enzo

2007-06-29, 11:09

Yorigami - LOL. I like that...

Skane

2007-06-30, 08:33

The following is based on [Doremi]'s fansub.

Random Thoughts On Ep12:
---- ----

Aono was a whole lot chirpier in the past although in later segments, they played on the "forbidden love" by having Matsuri insinuate that Aono was jealous/uncomfortable of the affection between Matsuri and Yorito.

Random Snark: Aono and Paper-Yorito takes the phrase, "non-blood-related siblings" to a whole new level. :heh:
.
Matsuri kicks the Well('s Bucket). :naughty:
.
Finally... we get canonical information that Past-Yorito was indeed Aono's little brother.
.
It still baffles me on why Matsuri and Yorito felt the need to aggravate Aono so much with mind games. Why not just straight out tell Aono that they intend to make her human? If Aono accepts, there is no need to fight; and if Aono rejects, they would end up fighting anyway.
.
"The main character will always be happy in the end."
"Ah, he died! His face was torn in half."

The dramatic irony in these lines is so, so delectable.
.
"The House That Aono Built", air-strums a Metallica song. Mana's friends got more speaking roles in this scene. I wonder what their status will be like in the game? For tertiary characters, they have a fair amount of speaking lines in this series.
.
More delicious irony as Aono pauses at the entrance of the battleground and recalls the first time she approached Matsuri's cave. Back then, she was a willing sacrifice about to surrender her life to Matsuri. This time though, she is going to kick Matsuri's cute petite ass and take back what is hers. In both cases, she was thinking that Matsuri was an Evil Being. :heh:
.
It is perhaps... very ironic that Matsuri ended up with Aono's past tendencies in the present. When Past-Yorito died, Aono was very suicidal and self-blaming (a trait that now belongs to Present-Matsuri ironically).
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The issue of Aono being more powerful than Matsuri is not an issue to me at all. If anything, it is entirely logical. Between the two of them, Aono is the one who embraced her powers, while Matsuri rarely uses hers.

Centuries of practice versus centuries of neglect should have produced differences between the two of them in terms of combat prowess. It is not Aono's fault if Matsuri only uses her powers under duress.

Basically speaking, when it comes to using their powers, Matsuri is a newb. :heh:
.
Additionally... why are so many people complaining about Aono's paper-clones? They are merely puppets compared to the SENTIENT being that is Paper-Yorito. I would like to think that there is a world of difference between the two.
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Seeing Matsuri and Aono smash each other through walls was fun in a brutal sort of way. :D

"THIS IS SOLA!"
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I find it amusing that the one prediction I managed to nail down 100% is about the passage of time in the previews. :p As expected, we get the dawn in the final preview.
Cheers.

Nifft

2007-06-30, 12:11

Aono was a whole lot chirpier in the past although in later segments, they played on the "forbidden love" by having Matsuri insinuate that Aono was jealous/uncomfortable of the affection between Matsuri and Yorito.

Random Snark: Aono and Paper-Yorito takes the phrase, "non-blood-related siblings" to a whole new level. :heh: But Aono animated Yorigami using her blood. They are "blood-related" even if they're not the same species of inhuman horror.

Cheers, -- N

Jaruromania

2007-07-01, 09:28

Aono is annoying me more than any of the other characters at this point. "Paper Yorito" is most definitely an entity of his own - his love for the sky doesn't look to be something real Yorito ever had (in addition to the weird doll things). Yet, Aono loves "Paper Yorito" only in the sense that he is supposed to be a mirror of her lost brother, and definitely not for himself, someone who can think for himself and prove himself an individual, not just a copy. She ignores his wishes, his pleads, his feelings of despair and anguish, and insists on hanging onto an illusion while completely ignoring the fact that her "creation" is an individual of his own. Kind of reminds me why Asahina Suzuka had annoyed me so much, with her love for Akitsuki stemming almost solely from the fact that he resembles her late senpai, not actually for who he actually is.

I understand her frustrations and her feelings, but she really needs to be disillusioned. IMO it's not Matsuri who ruined everything; it's Aono who poisoned herself.

Guido

2007-07-01, 11:15

It was a very beautiful climax. The conversations and even the showdown were rich with drama, as if I was watching a telenovela (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telenovela).

With its intricate characters and pacing plot, sola has become one of the best drama shows of the spring season.

I know that the anime ended this week that has already passed, so I am preparing for when I download and watch the final episode.

Yorito and Matsuri are trying to persuade Aono about the real truth.

Aono's pain and efforts were meaningless, since she could not walk on and leave behind the shadow of Yorito's memory. Therefore, she made the origami-Yorito in hopes that things would return and pretend as if nothing ever happened.
What I believe from witnessing the flashbacks is that Aono's insecurity and anxiety could had been washed away, if she ever have had the courage to actually speak to the real Yorito about her feelings.

Aono noticed that real-Yorito was ever close and friendlier to Matsuri, yet she never made a move to speak to him. It was not until Yorito died, that Aono this time took the initiative even if meant taking her own life.

Matsuri brought her back as a Yaka, because she did not want to be left alone after bonding with Yorito and Aono.
But as well Matsuri is not left without fault either. I think she was simply afraid of loneliness and to be forced to roam the world in loneliness again.

Of course, her choice of turning Aono into Yaka reaped a serious consequence, which became the paper Yorito that Aono made to mirror the real Yorito. But, this Yorito turned out to be nothing like the real one, as he developed his own personality and free will.

In summary, this was a fight for one to preserve things as how they currently are, for other to return everything back to how it should had become in the past, and for the last one to disappear from the anals of time as a memory that has to be erased.