Claymore - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[Pellissier]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Claymore, Episode 14.

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[t3ck]

Can't wait to see how Clare's quick sword execution will be animated in this episode!

This episode will probably ends at Ophelia's death. Looking forward for the next arc to begin!

[Defiled one]

Oh God Clare....What have you become? ;_; What have you become

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/996/17312357hn9.jpghttp://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6868/20635988kv4.jpg http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4189/19674592mz1.jpghttp://img119.imageshack.us/img119/9905/76137729ur5.jpg http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5190/95720200an4.jpghttp://img119.imageshack.us/img119/4677/92311369su7.jpg http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/5240/07wb3.jpg

[Fenrir_valindri]

Nice the animation looks great this episode (and I am not just saying that for the nudity :p) Clare's expressions look pretty good from the screen shots.

[yondy]

a loli and a naked ophelia in one episode = fanservice time for claymore :D

[Lunariska]

i'm not 100% sure if clare will master the flash sword in just one "between the episodes" moment
but funny as hell that ophelie turned into a friggn giant Isis ( women/snake demons in old, wth, forget how to spell it ;D there whre yugoh takes place, LOL )
want to see how powerful she is

[toxic_trance]

Ophelia With Long Hair..is Simply Too Kawaii...i Wanna See Her With Her Hair Open ^_^

[t3ck]

I always thought the showdown was in the day. Looks like a pleasant surprise for me =]

Raphaela & Riful all in one epsode. What can one ask for more?

[EasyPrey]

Yay! I predicted a little Yuri, and here it is!

Okay, so they (Clare and Ophelia) did not get naked hot and heavy but--judging by the preview--something close to that happened. ;) :D

OMG, she is in the screen shot.

-EasyPrey

[Squawks]

Hey, Ophelia has a nice rack. =D

[Fate_Archer]

Can't wait to see it.

By the way...
WoW, Rifull already? This is very cool. Next arc will be one of my favourites.
And it seems that the quality of the episodes improved, since the last episode. We can see the difference between episode 12 and 13.
It's probably because MadHouse has finished Death Note TV series.
Maybe MadHouse will have better conditions to invest more in Claymore, something that we all want, especially the demanding manga readers.

[Seska]

Warning!!!...

Some Spoiler (name of a future Char) are to far ahead in the future....


Spoiler Policy

* Any spoiler that reveals future events, even under a spoiler tag, will be deleted.
Spoiler tags should still be used where appropriate.
* Adding a Spoiler tag:
Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found
on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms.
Make sure that you include a title for the spoiler!
* Please use the Report button if you see any spoilers:
Click the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar.
Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators
to locate and deal with problems quickly.
* Posting prohibited spoilers may result in a ban.
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The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.


Please remeber the Spoiler rule and the Baseball game. Keep your head clear :)

Please don't give more info about some new Names in this Episode.. Why? Think of a baseball game, where you know the ending... :)


One eye Claymore = Rafaella
The Claymore with the open Hairbonds = Ophelia in Water
and the Girl at the end, Riful.

Thats it, only the names so far. Please don't give more infos out what only Manga readers know.



Thank you, and enjoy your flight with Claymore AIRs

[Negativedark]

a loli and a naked ophelia in one episode = fanservice time for claymore :D

Although the fact she's a giant snake from the waist down does somewhat detract from her sex appeal. Oh and another tip of the hat to Shakespeare for Ophilia.
Now if a certain someone just wore an eyepatch, Claymore could have cashed in on the popular pirate trend.

[Ejinathan]

Is the subbed version not out tomorrow ? ...

[Solace]

Is the subbed version not out tomorrow ? ...

Never ask for subs. They're out when they're out.

[Seska]

and it's the 4 July..... Some special day...

[NoSanninWa]

Therefore it is time for my next prediction.

There was an episode of Seinfeld, where two girls were fighting. Seinfeld did not want their fight interrupted because when two good looking girls are fighting, there is a possibility that they will stop fighting and start kissing each other!

Here is what we know:

1) Ophelia has a ponytail.

2) Ophelia and Clare are fighting.

3) From the raw, it appears that Ophelia is already fondling Clare's breasts. :p Damn, Ophelia already moved to the second base! ;)

3) There is always a possibility that when two decent looking women are fighting, they will stop fighting and start kissing each other. ;)

Therefore, I am willing to go out on a limb and predict that Clare and Ophelia will stop fighting and start kissing each other in the next episode!

That is my theory anyway. :)



Finally we get to see the end of the Ophelia arc. EasyPrey has predicted that when two girls are fighting, it means they want to stop and kiss. Was he right?

Yes! He was nearly correct! This episode ends with a naked embrace similar to what he predicted two episodes ago. The man is amazing. Even if only one of the Claymores was naked at the time it was definitely an intimate and passionate embrace so it counts as close enough to the heralded kiss.

[hollywoodlou]

Judging from the raw..where's the Clare "bathing in the lake scene"?

[Defiled one]

Cough...cough....:rolleyes: I do not know what you speak of my good sir.

YOU´LL NEVAH CATCH ALIVE!! :heh:

[Westlo]

Yay for

Rafaella and Riful!

[kari-no-sugata]

Jean shows up in the preview too!

The actual end to the ep is very slightly into the start of the next manga chapter (and story arc) btw - MiB meeting (with lighting in the background...lol)


More screen shots:
http://randomc.animeblogger.net/2007/07/03/claymore-14/

[dutchman]

A perfect episode. And a perfect 10 from me.

Both the animation and epic visuals in this episode were top notch. Its hard to believe the fantastic job Madhouse is doing!!

Actually I liked this episode in the anime more then in the manga because of the beautiful music score which played during the climax when Clare and Ophelia finally acknowledged eachother as an 'human' being and no longer as enemies.

Its ironical that the awakened Ophelia showed a much more human side then when she still was a claymore...:upset:

Also did someone else also got "Lord of the rings vibes" when the camera zoomed in on the organisation's stronghold at the end?:heh:

I fear that as of now my rating will be permanently stuck at the 10 rating position.. this series is just bizarre good....cannot find other words..

[Mentar]

Well... this concludes the episodes I liked the least during reading the manga (personally, I can't stand the Ophelia arc, because I can't stand Ophelia).

I'd say that Madhouse made the most out of the material they could. From an artistic standpoint, alot of memorable scenes remain. However, the original material... urgh. Not my cup of coffee.

Now that we're through with the weak stuff, on to the arc which introduces my favorite character in the whole show - the little girl from the preview.

Enjoy!

(I know I will) ^_^

[Fenrir_valindri]

Heh well I loved the Ophelia arc so I think this episode was pure awesome. Gave it a 10 myself, I really enjoyed seeing the great animation quality this episode.

[wrex_japan]

Ep. 14 screenshots and summary. (http://wrexgrafix.com/anime/blog/?p=555)

Hmm... sad end for two Claymores... maybe. And there sure was a lot of nekkidness ^_^

[dxanato]

This episode was pretty good over all.

The one touch I like about the battle between AB Ophelia and Clare is the extra touch of Clare flash back. It is this memories they make her drive to her ultimate goal. Also the power she show while using Irena/Ilena sword technique is pretty awesome to watch.

The end of this episode with Rubul been at Organization make the Organization look like evil place to be at. It not what I was expecting from what I see from the Manga.

The preview of the next arc with Rifu and Jean should be loads of fun.

[hollywoodlou]

Ep. 14 screenshots and summary. (http://wrexgrafix.com/anime/blog/?p=555)

Hmm... sad end for two Claymores... maybe. And there sure was a lot of nekkidness ^_^

Yeah...bUT it didn't follow the manga about Clare's "good" side though;)

[stormy001_M1A2]

I am not sure if you can call this ep as fan service since there is not for titillation factor. Every arc in Claymore is padded with sadness and brutality, Ophelia's opus is no different.

Ophelia not just Awaken, her humanity also finally awakened and it is poignant considering her temporal madness. And to non manga readers, we also get the glimpse of true vulnerability of Claire; another good reason why we continue to cheer for her. We cheer for her humanity, not the fact that she is a hot chick with big sword killing non humans.

[killer3000ad]

Gah, the previews for episode 15 wet my appetite since the next arc has you know who. Next week come faster please!:D:D

[Fate_Archer]

Great episode.
Spectacular quality and great jump on the story. A few extra scenes not shown in the manga, like the scene where the "mysterious Claymore" is tracking the way and finds the dead awakened been in the city.
A lot of emotions from this episode and Irene's Flash Sword getting every time better.
A well deserved 10.
A great job from MadHouse. Hope the series continues with this level of quality.


And oh boy...

How i would like to live with Irene, in that beautiful and quiet place...
Just Irene and me...
Living a serene and sweet life...
Just Irene and me...
Making a bonfire every night...

Paradise... ;)

Can't help, sometimes we just fall in love with some characters...

[stormy001_M1A2]

Irene is quite cold and distant woman. Not to sure if you will fare well with her in relationship building.

[Tempest35]

Irene is quite cold and distant woman. Not to sure if you will fare well with her in relationship building.

Heh, Irene's not that cold, she just looks the part. All you need to do is to get used to her subtle emotions and badda bing badda boom. You got an invincible one-armed Jedi Master who looks really good in leather. :D

I'll wait until the subs come out this time but I already miss Irene. Good thing we still have Miria.

As to Ophelia... It's a shame, a real shame. Her's is a sad story really but she made her life the way it is and killing her was the right thing to do.
May Ophelia finally rest in peace with her bro.

[Rhyel]

Thanks MadHouse.

Humm. Underwater the Ophelia have the the legs, but this is not correct. Ophelia dont make her legs, right? :uhoh:

[cors8]

Thanks MadHouse.

Humm. Underwater the Ophelia have the the legs, but this is not correct. Ophelia dont make her legs, right? :uhoh:

I think that scene was more metaphorical than literal.

[Fate_Archer]

Heh, Irene's not that cold, she just looks the part. All you need to do is to get used to her subtle emotions and badda bing badda boom. You got an invincible one-armed Jedi Master who looks really good in leather. :D

I'll wait until the subs come out this time but I already miss Irene. Good thing we still have Miria.


That's the spirit. :D

But i will still miss Irene... too bad it seems that she is definitively gone... :(

[hollywoodlou]

Too bad for Clare..no more Teresa, Irene...the motherly guardian types of her life.

Oh well, time for Miria to step it up and show Clare some leadership skills.

[cf18]

Too bad for Clare..no more Teresa, Irene...the motherly guardian types of her life.


Well they are all inside her now, mentally and physically... What a burden Clare has to carry with her.

[chibamonster]

Not to mention Ophelia's final wish as well.

That was highly enjoyable. I really enjoy how they keep the voice actors the same even when someone awakens. It made Ophelia so much fun to listen to. Raphaela sounded way different than I imagined her. It gave her a very different flare than what I expected. I'm really curious what the voices will be like in the next episode for the new characters in the preview. One of them a lot more than the other...

It was nice to have the battle in the early morning with the rising sun. Definitely gave it a distinctive feel. I was a big fan of the Flash sword when I saw it originally with Illena and I am glad it has made its comeback in animated glory! I loved how when Illena would use it everything around her would just get cut to shreds.

[Deathkillz]

noooo irene :sad: now that is one way to get an upgrade...using someone else's arm instead of training one yourself :p

okey so in the end ophelia did redeem some respect from be...though i would have liked to know more about her past i guess the basics of it is there...yep and the one horned awaken is the one we all know and hate :)

[hollywoodlou]

Well, I kinda feel bad for Ophelia but in the end, it's better to die with human consciousness rather than dying with taste for flesh.

I was kinda thinking...it's great that Irene gave her arm to Clare.

It's not like Clare will ask for Irene's ears...

[zephyrmiasma]

i think Irene will come back somehow don't think she will die... who knows maybe Rafaela will spare her life...
and don't you guys think Irene's voice sounds like a man, lol
she is so manly...

[dxanato]

The one thing that surprise me a little was the attachment. Unlike Clare other effort to attach her self this attachment had quite the power up feel to it. I guess when I read it in the manga I didn't get the feel that it was a big deal from the manga at the moment the attachment was made. It was not until she encounter AB Ophelia that you got the sense that Clare had improve.

[Tempest35]

i think Irene will come back somehow don't think she will die... who knows maybe Rafaela will spare her life...
and don't you guys think Irene's voice sounds like a man, lol
she is so manly...

*chuckles* Teresa was the mommy and Irene was the daddy w/ their daughter Clare? Cute...:rolleyes:

[Defiled one]

*chuckles* Teresa was the mommy and Irene was the daddy w/ their daughter Clare? Cute...:rolleyes:

:heh:LOL:heh: stop it, you`re killing me here!

[HinaThePrince]

*chuckles* Teresa was the mommy and Irene was the daddy w/ their daughter Clare? Cute...:rolleyes:

I SECOND THIS NOTION

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Hmm.. Clare needs some neck bolts and a lightning rod to be authentic!

[Mandrake]

hehehe, I laugh sometimes at Ilena's orders.

Sit. Eat. *bark!* :D

[Anh_Minh]

Well, I'll add my voice to Mentar's in saying I'm glad it's over.

Though I did like the fireside interaction of Clare and Irene, and the very end where the sweet little girl Ophelia must have been shone through, I never did like the sadistic bitch.

Also, next arc is yum.

[Majek]

noooo irene :sad: now that is one way to get an upgrade...using someone else's arm instead of training one yourself :p

okey so in the end ophelia did redeem some respect from be...though i would have liked to know more about her past i guess the basics of it is there...yep and the one horned awaken is the one we all know and hate :)
All hate? Don't generalize .

[zephyrmiasma]

sub is out

[outcast_within]

Well they are all inside her now, mentally and physically... What a burden Clare has to carry with her.

Yeah i was thinking the same. She has a lot of stuff she has to cary now :)

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j92/outcast_within/Animation1-3.gif

[TinyRedLeaf]

9 out of 10. Well done, and keep it up. Although, I expect to see howls of protest over Clare's "cheap" power-up pretty soon. (Very much hope I'm wrong.)

Where Ophelia's end is concerned, I'll concede for once that the anime did a better job than the manga. Her death felt more touching in the anime than in the manga. The BGM helped. (OMG, did I actually admit that?! The end is nigh! :cool: )

By some freaky coincidence, a good friend of mine posted this link to me earlier today.

Can you do it too? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GNzBFnUAdo)

I hope it doesn't come across as bad taste. That is definitely not the intention. A tribute to Irene -- wherever she may be now.

[corkii]

Ummm, is it me or did anyone else think that Ophelia's brother looked abit like raki O.o

[Teresa/Clare1415]

Ummm, is it me or did anyone else think that Ophelia's brother looked abit like raki O.o

I was thinking the same thing... He looked more like Raki's older brother, Zaki.:twitch:

[Wosho128]

How i would like to live with Irene, in that beautiful and quiet place...
Just Irene and me...
Living a serene and sweet life...
Just Irene and me...
Making a bonfire every night...

Paradise... ;)

Can't help, sometimes we just fall in love with some characters...


Irene is great and your fantasy is hilarious; even if questionable.

Hmmm. I give this episode an 8/10. I liked it but not as much as last week. My senses are telling me that Ophelia has gotten on my nerves. She was enjoyable but seeing her viciously assault Clare for 3 weeks in a row can get tedious to view.

I like the fact that Clare is much weaker than the average Claymore and that she must get stronger through other methods other than simply training. That makes her victories so refreshing to watch; she works incredibly hard to take down her opponents. Whenever she wins; I get a feeling of: "YOU GO GIRL!"

And poor Irene; she's my favorite character. ;_;

[cors8]

Well I have to say the OP that shows Clare, followed by Teresa, Irene, and Ophelia has a lot more meaning now.

Looking forward to next week. Just keeps getting better.

[Blablabla]

I was quite disapointed by the way they put Ophelia discovering her "awakened" reflect in the water. In the manga she seemed more affraid and hurt.

But her last moments were far away better. Those tears she left in the water while thinking about her brother were trully beautiful.

[yondy]

I've finally seen the sub. Another impressive episode, but ep. 13 was better.

Same here I also thought Ophelia's brother looks like Raki. I was really hoping it was him. :heh:

[HinaThePrince]

Oh wow, the song that plays during Clare's bath is freaking gorgeous. I want the OST already. Art was great and Ilene RULES. I love her SO MUCH and she SMILED fdjgmdfgdg. Not to mention OPHELIA she is PERFECTION safjaosdasdd KEYBOARD SMASH. TT______________TT

Satsuki Yukino as Rafaela struck me as damn weird, but I got used to it after a couple of sentences. This role made me appreciate the VA more, since its lifelessness is so different from her other roles. It makes me sad that they dropped Ilene's "Fate chooses its own path" line, though. It's one of the things that made the scene awesome for me in the manga. The part where Ilene said she was jealous of Teresa, too. But I guess they can't follow the manga exactly. -shrug- This episode gets a 9 from me, and that doesn't happen too often.

BTW, did anyone else find the part where Clare lets her hair down and it gets shorter highly amusing? That hairstyle always baffled me.

Oh, and I second the Ophelia's brother = Raki notion. Creepy.

[Panzerklein]

Ummm, is it me or did anyone else think that Ophelia's brother looked abit like raki O.o

I thought like you, may be Ophelia's brother is a far member of Raki's family :twitch:.

And the monster killed Ophe's brother is very like Pricilla. So Clare and Ophelia have same emeny but they don't know that.

[cors8]

Oh wow, the song that plays during Clare's bath is freaking gorgeous. I want the OST already. Art was great and Ilene RULES. I love her SO MUCH and she SMILED fdjgmdfgdg. Not to mention OPHELIA she is PERFECTION safjaosdasdd KEYBOARD SMASH. TT______________TT

Satsuki Yukino as Rafaela struck me as damn weird, but I got used to it after a couple of sentences. This role made me appreciate the VA more, since its lifelessness is so different from her other roles. It makes me sad that they dropped Ilene's "Fate chooses its own path" line, though. It's one of the things that made the scene awesome for me in the manga. The part where Ilene said she was jealous of Teresa, too. But I guess they can't follow the manga exactly. -shrug- This episode gets a 9 from me, and that doesn't happen too often.

BTW, did anyone else find the part where Clare lets her hair down and it gets shorter highly amusing? That hairstyle always baffled me.

Oh, and I second the Ophelia's brother = Raki notion. Creepy.

I agree the "jealous of Teresa" line would've been nice. I think they made up for it with the smile she gave Clare though.

[HinaThePrince]

And the monster killed Ophe's brother is very like Pricilla. So Clare and Ophelia have same emeny but they don't know that.

Uhh, they do. Watch the episode again. o_o

[Asai]

A good episode. Great to see a bit of Ophelia's "nice" side. Previously I thought she was a boring character, but this episode changed that. Clare continues to rock it up. And I hope Irene is alright. ;.; Though I have my doubts. =p

[Defiled one]

So...Mourning ;_; Oh so ronery....looks like Clare is a weakling.


So? The Lock Ness Monster is Ophelia? :heh:

So..Does that mean that an awakened doesn`t know he awakened?

[Twisted Reality]

Eh...I'm hoping Irene is still around. I think there's still a case to be made in that regard...

Raefela (I believe that's her name) was sent to execute Clare. At that moment, Clare's borrowed arm acts up. We are now left with another offscreen execution and something cryptic from Irene that "fate has its plans" or something similar. Rather inconvenient, since Irene was never explicitly shown killed the first time she "died."

Which leaves us with two basic ideas:
-Irene escaped
-Irene was executed

So does Irene still have a story to be told aside from being Clare's badass mentor and being witness to Theresa's death? Does the author want to bother with keeping her around as a character to develop? I think there's a distinct possiblity.

Firstly, when Irene saw Clare reattach her left hand and pass out, she realized she should have went well past her limit. Clare didn't Awaken. This knowledge reveals a distinct possibility to Irene. Considering that Irene's one talent is self-control, self-awareness and the ability to control overwhelming amounts of Yoki in one arm; what would be the next logical progression in her abilities? My guess is either "half" (or "full") Awakening.

Which still leaves us without a motivation for doing so. In observing Clare's stubbornness in the face of adversity, she may have decided that it was time for her to move forward with her life. However, Irene is the type to count herself lucky to be alive at the end of a battle, nevermind status or vengeance. Her existence is quite empty at the moment, living in seclusion without any real goals. (Which, if I think about it, actually sounds kinda peaceful.) She admits this as much over her envy over Clare and Theresa.

Perhaps the closest thing to a meaning relationship she ever seems to achieve is as a mentor-type figure. Unfortunately, this could just as easily mean that she's "spent" her life on the one thing she might have considered worthy: instructing the young-uns (i.e. Clare).

[HinaThePrince]

So..Does that mean that an awakened doesn`t know he awakened?

No, Ophelia's just in denial.

[Defiled one]

Yeah...I´m pretty sure she was in "denial" alright...hugging Clare and that sort of thing...:rolleyes:

[Lendial]

irene just skyrocketed up in terms of likeness. She gives clare her own friggin remaining arm, teaches her flash sword, and offers morale support. so sad it seems she was killed moments later.

they did the same damn thing with ophelia, made her likeable, then axed her.

ophelia's brother reminded me alot of raki.

[Varis]

holy shit, that leather Irene is wearing looks HOT AS HELL!!

I need to get my hands on it and make my girlfriend wear it lol. :D

[Trax]

Ophelia was definately in denial. She tried to rationalize why she would be hungry, with a preference for human guts, and the truth only hit her once she noticed her reflection in the water. Shame about Irene, but it looks like she played her part and won't be pulling another houdini.

[cors8]

Ophelia was definately in denial. She tried to rationalize why she would be hungry, with a preference for human guts, and the truth only hit her once she noticed her reflection in the water. Shame about Irene, but it looks like she played her part and won't be pulling another houdini.

Well they haven't shown her actually dying so it's always possible she might return someday!

[stormy001_M1A2]

Well animated and great pacing. I enjoyed it. Well, guess there goes my sensual, cool and calm Irene/Ilena. Hahahhaha.

[FlareKnight]

Yeah considering how much Ophelia hates awakened ones it's not surprising she'd completely deny it. Even going to the level of wanting guts but they don't have to be human just the closer the better right ;).

Really felt bad for most of that fight for Irene. Another classy character that bites the dust. Seems pretty classless to go at someone who can't even fight back. Even Irene wasn't sure she'd win with two arms, but I'd be one who would've liked to see her try. Maybe those who saw the manga will have a better view but I'm not exactly a fan of Raphaela right now. Strange I'd admit that once again you don't see what happens to Irene. But at best all she could do was run and run and hope she got away. Maybe they just didn't want us to see Irene get killed when she couldn't do anything to fight back.

Possible I guess she already knew that something like this would happen. After beating Ophelia her suppressed yoki would be detectable again so she put all that effort into training Clare. Even giving up her arm since she didn't think she'd beat whoever came after her. It's too bad to see her go really.

[Lendial]

they dont actualy show her dying so theres might be some plotdevice that allows her to live as unlikely as it is.

rafaela is aparently very strong, much stronger than her rank suggests. irene could aparantly sense it with just a glance.

[Claymore_Obsessed]

All hail Irene! ^^
your awesomeness is only equal to your bad luck... ;_;

[ArmisaelXVIII]

I liked this episode, but still I have to says that the events in this arc (both manga/anime) seemed a little unnatural and forced. In this EP, like when Raphaela showed up. That's too much to asume that Ophelia and Clare were sent coincidentally near from where Irene lives, and that Raphaela was there too. It would be more natural, if she had been sent to watch the outcome of the mission, but once there, she found Irene and ended her previous mission of looking for her and execute her...



The reaction of the awakened Ophelia seems a lot more loyal to her brother, than priscilla towards her family. In fact Ophelia really seems more human than before...

I didn't want Irene to die u.u I don't see her coming out alive of that situation. In the anime Irene implies somewhat that even if she has both arms she may not be able to go against raphaela (perhaps the past Irene could). In the manga that is not pointed out.

That would mean that Raphaela is Nº5 for some special reason, or that the other top five (Ophelia doesn't count :x) are stronger than Irene. May be the current Nº1 is near Teresa's level, or even higher, but probably not near Priscilla's one.

[Defiled one]

She also asked about Clare. I find it strange that Rafaela found Irene there.


Infact. We can say that Rafaela was sent to verify if Clare died or to finish her off.

Why do I have this idea? Well let`s just say that the last part of "Mordor or whatever that place is" with lightnings and thunders as Rubel fixed his glasses. Made be feel weird considering the place Rubel was.

Yeah.

They know something about Clare that we don´t. And that Clare herself doesn`t.


Clare may be a walking time bomb. I mean we all know that Claymores awaken so they send the Black card before awakening.

Why giving so much trouble to the weakest? Something is fishy! Now I really want to see the next episode

[Matrim]

All I have to say about this episode is that Ophelia was so much less annoying and boring when she was just a sadistic psychopath.

[Rotton the Wizard]

Can you do it too? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GNzBFnUAdo)


Woah, that was a pretty badass and inspiring video.

I really hope that Irene isn't dead. That would make her whole "Don't worry; I don't die easily" line pointless. The last thing I want to see is Clare standing in front of Irene's gravestone and cutting off her borrowed arm at the end of manga, as that would be too depressing.

What I hope will happen instead is that Irene will do a "flash kick" to Rafaela's good eye, then awaken both of her legs and run the hell out of there until she is well outside of Rafaela's Yoki sensing radius, hopefully without any other Claymores nearby.

Now that would be awesome.

[Shiroth]

I wish Rafaela was wearing an eyepatch.

[ArmisaelXVIII]

I was rewatching the EP, and imagined them in a situation I saw in an anime I can't recall right now.


Irene: "Looks like the size fits quite well"
Clare: "was this suit from back them?"
Irene: "Yes."
Clare: I see, but this suit is quite tight at the top
Irene: ... ¬¬

[Shiroth]

Irene: "Looks like the size fits quite well"
Clare: "was this suit from back them?"
Irene: "Yes."
Clare: I see, but this suit is quite tight at the top
Irene: ... ¬¬


Thats more like 4-koma material.

[Lendial]

oh god i hate videos like that, not because its bad but because it stirs such emotions. i stopped half way because i knew the tears would fall.

[Fenrir_valindri]

It does sadden me that they took out two of my favorite lines, but otherwise the episode was perfect. Irene's envy of Teresa was quite human, and the "Fate has its own plans." line was good too.

I wonder why manga readers keep pointing out the smile, she was smiling in the manga too, I just assume you guys did not look closely. :p

Rafaela said herself that she was looking for Irene, apparently the Organization knew she was alive, just not where she was.

I think Irene also said that line just to get Clare to leave, she wanted Clare to leave with no regrets and continue forward, no matter what happened to her.

Ah all the Ophelia hate, dont know why, Ophelia is an awesome character.
I heard someone say this before but she is definitely a "bad end" version of Clare.

[cors8]

I wonder why manga readers keep pointing out the smile, she was smiling in the manga too, I just assume you guys did not look closely. :p


Well, when I look at that scene from the manga, her expression is pretty similar to her normal expressions, just little less stern. I guess it could look like smile, but it's nowhere near as pronounced as the anime.

[Nesty]

not a bad ep, but if felt odd seeing some of the lines, important ones at that, getting cut from the anime version.

nice to see the reactions for those that finally see the other form of getting a "powerup" hehe in claymore :P

[Seska]

Clare has Teressas Blood and flesh.
Irene teach her the basics of her skill, but unable to reach the same speed and force. She helped Clare out, with a gift.
Ophelia was her first enemy. Clare with the "new Help" of Irene, has some problems. But Ophelia helps her, and resolve her will to fight. In the end of this ,all 3 ones (Teressa,Irene and Ophelia), are part of Clare's background.

Look forward, the show just begin here. trust me...

[NoSanninWa]

I like the fact that Clare is much weaker than the average Claymore and that she must get stronger through other methods other than simply training. That makes her victories so refreshing to watch; she works incredibly hard to take down her opponents. Whenever she wins; I get a feeling of: "YOU GO GIRL!"
She may have less raw power, but she definitely has some extraudinary talents.

Look forward, the show just begin here. trust me...
Well of course. This is only just past the midway point. Most shows heat up here and Claymore should be no exception. ;) Everyone already knows that even without having to read the manga.

[Trax]

It does sadden me that they took out two of my favorite lines, but otherwise the episode was perfect. Irene's envy of Teresa was quite human, and the "Fate has its own plans." line was good too.

Exactly what I wanted to comment on too, they changed and shuffled some of the dialogue but most of that doesn't really matter. But when I watched this episode I really did miss the line where Irene said she was felt envious when she saw Teresa in that village with Clare. I wish they had kept that in.

[Deathkillz]

All hate? Don't generalize .
fine fine! love and hate then :p
not a bad ep, but if felt odd seeing some of the lines, important ones at that, getting cut from the anime version.

nice to see the reactions for those that finally see the other form of getting a "powerup" hehe in claymore :P
mix and match body parts...it sounds like a kid in a sweet shop :eyebrow: (even though it was a nice spin i hope clare doesnt acquire any new legs O.O)

[Guido]

Great! This was a funny, amusing episode.

Hack and slash! Hack and slash!

Clare has to go a long way before she ceases to be the punching bag but with the Quick Sword acquired by her drive to avenge Teresa she has now ascended in league.

Seriously people, did Ophelia give the impression of an Awakened in the traditional sense of the word?

She was more lunatic than monster, and I could not stop myself from laughing out aloud like an idiot.:heh:

But, anyways, in this episode we're notified that the Org is absolutely sinister on the deep core and may or not be responsible for the chain of events that will bound to happen in the future.

I have been waiting for Raphaela's debut, and she never disappointed on those few minutes on the screen. Sadly, it is still a long trek to come to see her fight.

And looks like from the preview that new guest stars are making their long stand in the spotlight.

And what would Clare going to do now?

[stormy001_M1A2]

Claire with Theresa yoki sensors, Irene/Ilena's Quicksword arm and Ophelia's manifest. She sounds like a bearer for some of her most powerful comrade in arms. Talk about adaptability and flexibility. Claire is like a tabula rasa, waiting to be fitted with good parts that maybe someday enable her to take on Priscillia face to face in mortal combat.

The problem being a tabula rasa, she has no unique ability of her own as much it is source of her great strength.

Now that is hallmark of a potentially good warrior.

[SapientiSat]

^ Her forte would be adaptability and results I guess.

I liked the episode. The death of Claymore #4 was sort of homage to the end of Ophelia in Shakespeare's Hamlet. She fell into madness and died in water.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y258/VashStampede/Ophelia_Add1.jpg

[Kinematics]

A little more of my thoughts on Ophelia, as brought up a couple episodes back.

She's a sadistic, evil, monstrous little creature, caring only for her own enjoyment and the pain she can cause others. That's not why I like her.

The anime version was more limited in some of its presentation, though what it did show it showed beautifully. The point that I think finally drove home exactly who Ophelia was, for me, was her simple declaration of, "You won." Those two words finally crystalized an understanding of her seemingly meaninglessly sadistic nature.

Someone commented an episode or two ago that it was unusual to have such a vicious antagonist whose sadism seemed to have no purpose other than simply the act itself. It wasn't for power, or revenge, or torture or whatever. It was simply causing pain for the sake of causing pain. What I saw was that there was actually a purpose behind it, even if she was not consciously aware of it.

I've noted before that our two 'evil' characters so far have extremely childlike personalities. Priscilla is the epitome of righteous magical girl; Ophelia wants to play games. Even Clare herself is still heavily tied to her younger self, of the time she had with Teresa. The parallels being drawn seem to be deliberate. The children of this world are the most vulnerable, at every level.

At the physical level, they are the most susceptible to being killed by the pervasive plague of yoma. Even adults have almost no way to defeat them, and children have no chance at all. They are also in the worst position as survivors of such attacks since the adults will mistrust them, and can't be relied on to help them survive.

At the social level, those who have survived such attacks are taken in by this world's "Health and Welfare Bureau", the Organization. Rather than being cared for, however, they are turned into half-monsters themselves, forced to endure the pain of the transformation, sent out to kill, and knowing that no one considers them human anymore. Sooner or later they will either die in battle, or become the very monsters they fight and caused them to become what they are.

And at the metaphysical level, they seem to be the most vulnerable to turning into the monstrosities they fight, Awakened Beings. It is the human mind that keeps that at bay, and the childlike minds don't seem to have the proper type of strength of will to hold onto their humanity.

Thus we return to Ophelia. She wants to play a game. More importantly, it's implied that this is normal behavior for her. She kills and inflicts pain in numerous ways, and disposes of the evidence to keep from being punished, all in the name of playing a game, a game where she sets the rules. The rules are unfair, the dice are loaded, and the penalty for losing is death.

What she wants, however, is someone with whom she can play a game, who will win.

Consider how she plays with Clare. She taunts and teases, but doesn't kill directly. She uses every trick she can think of that any enemy might use against you. Are you afraid? She'll play on that fear. Do you care about someone? She'll use him as leverage against you. Are you an offensive type? She'll take advantage of the weaknesses of that type (inability to easily heal/regenerate). Any special techniques? She's very good at analyzing and countering those abilities.

Every possible weakness an enemy could exploit, Ophelia will try to use against her fellow 'player', trying to force their limits, and find the point they will break. As long as Clare could keep finding ways out of the traps Ophelia set, Ophelia kept pushing her. When Clare was out of tricks, and unable to continue fighting, only then did Ophelia get bored and was prepared to kill her.

Yet, even though Clare was out of tricks, out of strategy, and unable to fight, she never broke. She never gave in. She kept trying to find a way.

Fast forward to after the Quick Sword training. Clare had gotten faster and stronger. Perhaps strong enough to be worth testing one more time. This time it was a test of her inner self, the part that holds back the beast, that keeps her from awakening. Yet another set of unfair rules, rules Clare -could- have ignored in order to dispatch Ophelia, as Ophelia herself noted. Clare, however, stayed within the rules of the game, perhaps as much to test herself as to let Ophelia test her.

And Ophelia wanted her to win. This was her last chance to find someone who -could- win. She wouldn't skimp on the rules, because the rules were important. But that inner part of her, the child that knew what she was trying to find, could encourage Clare just enough to get her over the top.

Why was she trying to find this person? While Ophelia was #4, she was also a very competitive person. If it was possible for her to gain a higher rank, she would have tried. She also probably knew that #5 (Raphaela) was stronger than she was. She loved killing Awakeneds, but her true goal was Priscilla. She had to know, then, that she had no chance of actually beating Priscilla.

She had to find someone stronger than herself, not just physically (as 1/2/3/5 would be), but mentally and strategically. Beating someone in a straight-up 'fair' fight is easy. Priscilla didn't play fair. Ophelia had to find someone who could play a game with completely unfair rules and still win.

The child that is Ophelia, the child who wanted her brother back, the child who wanted revenge on his murderer, the child with such a keen mind, even if twisted over the years, the child who just wanted to play some games, that is the one that I care about, and I will miss.

[dxanato]

Kinematics thank you for that write up. I totally see your point about Ophelia and her habit for playing games. I am not sure if was here that I post but I always felt that Ophelia was teaching Clare something. Your point about playing on Clare weakness in using Raki and give her task she knew would be unfair to test Clare resolve is very interesting to see it unfold.

[Kinematics]

More thoughts on Ophelia. This is more speculative than analytical, with a number of points that I can't directly prove.

I think that Ophelia had already given up any hope of defeating Priscilla before she ever met Clare. The carelessness of her fight with the Awakened was not her being overpowered, but rather her being lazy or uncaring of the outcome. She was, at that point, already on a suicidal path.

Recall her words from Miria's flashback, regarding Miria's ability to fight multiple opponents. I believe that at that time she was still 'testing' herself, willing to take any opportunity to fight an opponent that would allow her to determine if her skills were good enough to fight Priscilla.

Ophelia appears to be an excellent tactician. It's likely the primary reason she rose to rank 4. That gift, however, allowed her to recognize an unwinnable fight. There was some point after her encounter with Miria when she found she would never be good enough.

High probability: She keeps track of all Awakened hunts. Secondary probability: she keeps tracks of those who go on such hunts to scout for a possible 'successor' (even if she wouldn't readily acknowledge that). She had already encountered Miria and knew she had a potentially fatal weakness. She was likely aware of Helen and Deneve in a general sort of way, and had enough experience to easily pick apart their weaknesses. What caught her attention, however, was a rank 47 warrior going on such a hunt, and returning alive. The report would likely at least indicate that this warrior performed adequately, even if details were left out.

This was something completely out of left field, and probably quite intriguing to Ophelia. It would not take much digging to determine that she was the product of the infusion of Teresa (though that information isn't a necessary presupposition to further speculation), and considered a failure. However the fact that she was both assigned to and survived an Awakened hunt might lead Ophelia to take a chance on her.

To a tactician, people become predictable, and warriors even more so. However this 'Clare' person could very well be something different, unusual. Interesting.

The assignment of Clare to the hunt with Ophelia is very odd. Instead of the usual group of 4, there were only 2, and Ophelia claimed (correctly) that she could have handled it herself. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever for the Organization to assign Clare to such a hunt, especially against an Awakened more powerful than the one she fought before. The only conclusion is that someone must have specifically requested it. [Edit: Well, there is the alternative "plan to kill both troublemakers off" theory.]

The only one who could conceivably have done so is Ophelia herself (probably through her handler). Rubel might have done so, but he is far too meticulous. He would have arranged for another standard group of 4 against progressively more difficult opponents, not paired with a single, unstable Claymore.

Ophelia, having failed to be strong enough herself, and having failed to find a strong enough candidate among the 'normal' Claymores, is grasping at straws to find someone suitable. Her own failure worsens her mental instability. She no longer cares if she lives or dies, and she honestly no longer has any real hope. She has slipped fully into her 'game' mode by the time she meets Clare.

Thus she is hanging onto her humanity by a mere thread during this arc, and her encounter with Ilena breaks that. Her psyche snaps, and she finally succumbs and becomes Awakened. However, being in 'game' mode, her grasp of reality is still loose, and she's unaware of what happened.

When she finally realizes what happened, enough of her true self pulls together to put on one last test - one last game - for Clare. Clare winning the game that she herself could not allowed Ophelia to at long last rest easy, knowing there was another there to fight in her stead.

[NoSanninWa]

A little more of my thoughts on Ophelia, as brought up a couple episodes back.

She's a sadistic, evil, monstrous little creature, caring only for her own enjoyment and the pain she can cause others. That's not why I like her.

The anime version was more limited in some of its presentation, though what it did show it showed beautifully. The point that I think finally drove home exactly who Ophelia was, for me, was her simple declaration of, "You won." Those two words finally crystalized an understanding of her seemingly meaninglessly sadistic nature.

Someone commented an episode or two ago that it was unusual to have such a vicious antagonist whose sadism seemed to have no purpose other than simply the act itself. It wasn't for power, or revenge, or torture or whatever. It was simply causing pain for the sake of causing pain. What I saw was that there was actually a purpose behind it, even if she was not consciously aware of it.

I've noted before that our two 'evil' characters so far have extremely childlike personalities. Priscilla is the epitome of righteous magical girl; Ophelia wants to play games. Even Clare herself is still heavily tied to her younger self, of the time she had with Teresa. The parallels being drawn seem to be deliberate. The children of this world are the most vulnerable, at every level.

At the physical level, they are the most susceptible to being killed by the pervasive plague of yoma. Even adults have almost no way to defeat them, and children have no chance at all. They are also in the worst position as survivors of such attacks since the adults will mistrust them, and can't be relied on to help them survive.

At the social level, those who have survived such attacks are taken in by this world's "Health and Welfare Bureau", the Organization. Rather than being cared for, however, they are turned into half-monsters themselves, forced to endure the pain of the transformation, sent out to kill, and knowing that no one considers them human anymore. Sooner or later they will either die in battle, or become the very monsters they fight and caused them to become what they are.

And at the metaphysical level, they seem to be the most vulnerable to turning into the monstrosities they fight, Awakened Beings. It is the human mind that keeps that at bay, and the childlike minds don't seem to have the proper type of strength of will to hold onto their humanity.

Thus we return to Ophelia. She wants to play a game. More importantly, it's implied that this is normal behavior for her. She kills and inflicts pain in numerous ways, and disposes of the evidence to keep from being punished, all in the name of playing a game, a game where she sets the rules. The rules are unfair, the dice are loaded, and the penalty for losing is death.

What she wants, however, is someone with whom she can play a game, who will win.

Consider how she plays with Clare. She taunts and teases, but doesn't kill directly. She uses every trick she can think of that any enemy might use against you. Are you afraid? She'll play on that fear. Do you care about someone? She'll use him as leverage against you. Are you an offensive type? She'll take advantage of the weaknesses of that type (inability to easily heal/regenerate). Any special techniques? She's very good at analyzing and countering those abilities.

Every possible weakness an enemy could exploit, Ophelia will try to use against her fellow 'player', trying to force their limits, and find the point they will break. As long as Clare could keep finding ways out of the traps Ophelia set, Ophelia kept pushing her. When Clare was out of tricks, and unable to continue fighting, only then did Ophelia get bored and was prepared to kill her.

Yet, even though Clare was out of tricks, out of strategy, and unable to fight, she never broke. She never gave in. She kept trying to find a way.

Fast forward to after the Quick Sword training. Clare had gotten faster and stronger. Perhaps strong enough to be worth testing one more time. This time it was a test of her inner self, the part that holds back the beast, that keeps her from awakening. Yet another set of unfair rules, rules Clare -could- have ignored in order to dispatch Ophelia, as Ophelia herself noted. Clare, however, stayed within the rules of the game, perhaps as much to test herself as to let Ophelia test her.

And Ophelia wanted her to win. This was her last chance to find someone who -could- win. She wouldn't skimp on the rules, because the rules were important. But that inner part of her, the child that knew what she was trying to find, could encourage Clare just enough to get her over the top.

Why was she trying to find this person? While Ophelia was #4, she was also a very competitive person. If it was possible for her to gain a higher rank, she would have tried. She also probably knew that #5 (Raphaela) was stronger than she was. She loved killing Awakeneds, but her true goal was Priscilla. She had to know, then, that she had no chance of actually beating Priscilla.

She had to find someone stronger than herself, not just physically (as 1/2/3/5 would be), but mentally and strategically. Beating someone in a straight-up 'fair' fight is easy. Priscilla didn't play fair. Ophelia had to find someone who could play a game with completely unfair rules and still win.

The child that is Ophelia, the child who wanted her brother back, the child who wanted revenge on his murderer, the child with such a keen mind, even if twisted over the years, the child who just wanted to play some games, that is the one that I care about, and I will miss.

Beautiful. I never cared much about Ophelia beyond, "Crazy psycho bitch I'm glad she was finally killed," until I read this post.

[dxanato]

@Kinematics I am not sure about this theory on Ophelia. I can see some point but with the last few word she said about how she forgot her brother smile and the reason her brother die tell me my otherwise. I think her quest for vengeance may have been lost the minute Yoma was place in her body.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Very nice theory of Ophelia's character, I see her in a much simliar light, a part of her probably already knew she would not be able to beat Priscilla, and she also had a more personal grudge against her.

I believe the real turning point is when she realizes that Clare had a grudge against Priscilla as well.
This triggered something inside Ophelia herself. It appears quite obvious that Ophelia wanted Clare to win, infact, in many ways she LET Clare win.

She just wanted to test if Clare had the resolve to carry on her will, after all Ophelia herself had already failed by Awakening, so she could not even attempt to carry on her mission anymore.

Ophelia is really one of the characters that help Clare develop the most in this series, which is why, as someone pointed out earlier, the opening shows Teresa, Irene, and Ophelia. They are all linked to Clare now, and all linked to Priscilla as well.

Edit for above poster: It appears Ophelia never knew who the one-horned monster actually was, so her hatred and subsequent hunting off any and all awakened beings is her way of searching for her brother's killer.

I believe what Ophelia ment was that she could never really understand what it was her brother was trying to do until that moment, or maybe she did and just sealed it away because she was not strong enough to move past the death of her brother. (like Clare with Teresa)

[stormy001_M1A2]

Ophelia realising her revenge by testing worthy comrades to kill Priscillia herself since her thinking if they cannot handle her, surely they unable to handle one horned monster. She becomes like a filter, appointing herself.

Remarkable.

[Insearchof]

Like her Shakespearean counterpart, one can't deny Ophelia as a tragic figure. :(

[AlphaDragoon]

I was rewatching the EP, and imagined them in a situation I saw in an anime I can't recall right now.


Irene: "Looks like the size fits quite well"
Clare: "was this suit from back them?"
Irene: "Yes."
Clare: I see, but this suit is quite tight at the top
Irene: ... ¬¬



I think you're actually referring to a scene from Tales of the Abyss for PS2. When Tear gets one of her costumes (which happens to be her old training uniform) there's a near identical conversation between her, Natalia and Anise.

Except in that, Tear's the one to make notice of the increased "tightness" in the chest area. Jokes and jealous stares from the other girls ensue throughout the rest of the game. Good times. :heh:

[khryoleoz]

In response to the Kinematic character study of Ophelia...

Very interesting. Or, she might simply be a sadist. No one does anything merely for the sake of doing it. At the most basic, one derives pleasure from engaging in the activity. So she tortured and killed others because it pleased her. At first meeting, Clare and Raki were simply victims, subjects to her fancy.

While you very well may be right, the story offers no compelling evidence that would lead us to make those inferences as though they were necessary ones to make, that she played those games with a design to carve out a stronger one than her who can carry out her will. She delights in dealing with Awakened ones, and has no reservations about doing so. She believed Clare to be an awakened one and went after her. Before getting her ass handed to her by Irene, she probably gave no thought to the differences in power between her and the one-horned monster.

What struck me as Ophelia's most significant issue is that she had formed some twisted view of those who put their lives on the line for others as her brother had done. As revealed in her final thoughts, we know that deep down she loved her brother for it. She found this same "stuff" of her brother's in Clare. My question is what actually influenced Ophelia to throw the match. Ophelia was clearly out to kill Clare until Clare declared that she will own Priscilla's head in Ophelia's stead. At that point, she played a new game with said rules. Though she still tried to kill her, she coaxed her to win after thinking of how Clare was being as stubborn as her brother. So I think in the end, it was the parallels she saw between her brother and Clare that influenced Ophelia's somewhat redemptive change, and therefore carried greater weight. Passing on her will to Clare was just the consequential result.

[saravis]

To me Ophelia changed when she realized she had become the very thing that she despised. She probably felt that she could no longer seek her vengeance, but was at the same time uncertain if Clare would be strong enough to seek it herself. So that's where the game came in, she wanted to test Clare's strength as well as her resolution. Perhaps for Clare's reassurance or perhaps for her own. She was still split between crazy and mentor, but then when she recalled the reason for her brother's final smile, that was when she went completely over to being the mentor type.

[TougeSil80]

I think Clare with Irene's arm is probably the ultimate combination. She has very low youki so that makes the enemy harder to aim at her, just like when they were fighting the male awakener, she can dodge attack well, but her final attack lacks the punch. Irene's arm will give her that punch. So this is a very good build.

[khryoleoz]

To me Ophelia changed when she realized she had become the very thing that she despised. She probably felt that she could no longer seek her vengeance, but was at the same time uncertain if Clare would be strong enough to seek it herself. So that's where the game came in, she wanted to test Clare's strength as well as her resolution. Perhaps for Clare's reassurance or perhaps for her own. She was still split between crazy and mentor, but then when she recalled the reason for her brother's final smile, that was when she went completely over to being the mentor type.

Assuming that we agree we're not just talking about physiological changes, she changed how? She was still psycho-bitch, only more pronounced, displaying the same irrationality that blamed Clare for her awakening. What stops her from pursuing her revenge by awakening? Her chances of pulling it off were improved by becoming stronger. Unnecessary inferences are being made in forming the idea that she was testing Clare with her games looking for a candidate who can take Priscilla in her place. To the degree that this is plausible I acquiesce. But what is in the story does not compel us to think this. That she became the thing she despised even lends more credence to the idea that that's why she threw herself at Clare's sword, not that she was hoping somebody "would be the one" which by chance happened to be Clare.

Another thing that destroys the idea is that Ophelia really did throw the match. If she purposed that her games were some qualification tournament for who would be best fit to kill Priscilla, she would have not given Clare the opportunity and help that she did, but went all out in hope that she would be bested anyway.

[saravis]

What I was refering to was more of motivation for change not direct change sure she continued to assault Clare, but the discovering of her awakening was the laying of the flint and Clare's resolution and strength was the flame. As far as why the awakening would deter her from her revenge. She was no longer Ophelia, like I said she had become the thing she despised the most. She realized her failure and knew she would despise herself if she continued on as she was.

[Jehuty]

Ophelia said to Claire that awakening "would basically mean you didn't have the qualifications to fight against that one-horned monster". That is why Ophelia threw the match -- it wasn't that she became what she despised more, but she just didn't feel she was qualified to fight Priscilla any longer, and thus lost her purpose to live.

Still, I find it amazing how by becoming an Awakened One, she basically became more human than ever, at least as far as reasoning goes. It's also awesome how, at least in the end, she understood why her brother "left her".

Who's Ophelia's seiyuu anyway? I just looove her voice.

Also, the ONE thing I didn't like was how during the "game" Ophelia didn't wince once, like she didn't feel any of the pain of her entire body being minced to pieces.

[potchip]

My take on Ophelia as a character, though it may be slighty warped from reading the manga long before the animated form.

For someone scarred by her brother's death, she despise weakness the most. The direct opposite of Clare's new resolve after meeting Irene (to live is the only proof that those before you existed), she viewed her brother's death as unnecessary and an emotional burden on the living (herself). Her sadistic personality manifest fully when she's with someone whom she perceived as weak. In her initial encounter against Clare, she used what she perceived as Clare's weaknesses (Raki) as much as possible to mock Clare's way of life. In her opinion, those do-gooders, if weak, are just like her brother, dies in vain. Her hate for awakened is the outward manifestation of her despair, and to hate herself for being weak. I would think the turning point in her personality actually comes after her defeat by Irene's hand. While the defeat broke whatever self-protection he weave in the years after her brother's death and leading to awakening, it also touched her old wound, and as a result she becomes more unstable. (if you would view her sadistic side as the stabalized psyche of a wounded girl).

[Sorrow-K]

Damn that was a good ep. Not just for the fight scene, which was one of the better ones in the series (ignoring Ophelia's bizarre range of emotions... although she wasn't a very easily understood character in the first place), but moreso for Irene's teaching (and gift) for Clare and, even more importantly, the reference to the Theresa flashback. Obviously the Theresa arc makes for pretty much the grounding of the entire story, but it certainly is a very powerful base for them to build the story around, and I don't think this can be understated. I think, any reference they make to that arc in the future, even really minor ones, will positively serve the overall story.

[grey_moon]

Bleh I was so wrong about Irene donating her arm to Clare, but unfortunately right to be worried about someone sensing their flash sword training. Poor Irene, I hope she makes it out some way, but I guess she doesn't have much hope. I really liked Kinematic's review on Ophelia, it gave me mixed feelings when I rewatched the episode.

I wonder how powerful is the one eyed Claymore? Could she be more powerful then Terese was? Ophelia seemed rather powerful and Irene squished her and Irene's comment on how she would only have a chance with both arms makes me think that her opponent is on another level.

[BrokenWingz]

Well if you take into account that Irene says she would have a chance with both hands (assuming her comment is somewhat true), then you consider Teresa handling #2 - #5 with ease I would say Teresa is stronger.

[bur]

wow keep up the posts, there are some great theories. what moved me was definitely the campfire where clare and elena interact...also the voice acting and fight was great in this episode ... ie ophelia vs clare....10/10
this arc will definitely be missed, wish it lasted a few more episodes..

[Sinestra]

Opheilas end was indeed tragic but i felt like at the end she had regained at least a piece of her humantiy. I might be imgaigning it but right after Clare deals the final blow and Opheila is remembering her brother her it sounded like her voice changed. Did anyone else hear this?

Well it looks like our assumptions about reattaching someone elses arm were right on. So i was not too surprised when Irene hacked off her own and presented it Clare. However it was a bittersweet moment as we lose one 2 warriors Irene/Opheila another steps into the light the 1 eyed Claymore whose ranked at #5. It sucks that Clare will not be able to return Irene's arm and granted we have not seen a body nor the kill but im pretty sure Irene has been put to rest.

IMO the conversation about Teresa between Clare and Irene was one that renewed that fire in Clare's heart. I agreed with everything Irene said in the end Teresa was very happy and that was because of Clare. Very nice episode really no compliants.

[ArmisaelXVIII]

I feel like I must quote this. :heh:


I just though six other ways to Clare defeat Ophelia without the help of Irene! :D

5) Clare yells "Look! There's someone behind you!!" Ophelia looks behind, and suddenly Clare decapitates her, yelling "Hah! Tricked you!!" :eyespin:


That would work though, you'll see in the next ep why.

[Scep]

Pretty tragic end to ophelia, seeing her own body being cut up, while lost in thought, reflecting. That effect is soooo overused, but it was a nice effect anyway. Seeing her brother die before her, realizing she was helpless against priscilla, that she was an awakened being, all of that came together nicely.

It makes me wonder... what would clare's nickname be. Her abilities are so diversified, teresa's yoki sensing, irene's flash sword. Maybe she'll be called.... "Clare of all trades" XD On another note, having defeated ophelia no. 4, she probably can enter the position of no. 4 safely. Of course, why rafaela stays as no. 5 is a big question.

[stormy001_M1A2]

"Lego" Claire? Hehehehe

[dxanato]

It makes me wonder... what would clare's nickname be. Her abilities are so diversified, teresa's yoki sensing, irene's flash sword. Maybe she'll be called.... "Clare of all trades" XD On another note, having defeated ophelia no. 4, she probably can enter the position of no. 4 safely. Of course, why rafaela stays as no. 5 is a big question.

I had wonder about a nickname for Clare for some time. I am not sure what would make good one.



"Lego" Claire? Hehehehe

LOL yeah that would be good one.

[Defiled one]

Cannibal Clare?
Ophelia Necrophilia?

Those are good names.

[Xellos-_^]

On another note, having defeated ophelia no. 4, she probably can enter the position of no. 4 safely. Of course, why rafaela stays as no. 5 is a big question.

Ophelia basically threw the fight, if she was fighting seriously Claire would have been dead.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Ophelia basically threw the fight, if she was fighting seriously Claire would have been dead.

I agree fully, Ophelia was basically letting Clare win at a certain point.

Also I believe Ophelia was not feeling any pain because she had seperated her bodies into two parts basically, her Human self and yoma body, so it is possible she simply did not feel the pain of her Yoma body that was being destroyed.

[cors8]

Clare's like a borg.

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

[grey_moon]

@cors8 - Nooooooooooooo u beat me to it, I was thinking the same thing... sniffle

Since Claymore's can donar each others parts I guess the perfect bird could be made, well as long as you don't try to transplant a head :p

[Seska]

Clare the Highlander.......

:)

[Cococokie]

Ophie-chan my fav! =p

She probably gave up after knowing she's an awaken which she herself loathes awakens.

[yondy]

I still have a good feeling that Irene is still alive. I see no reason for the author not to show Irene's execution other than saying she's going to appear again, ofcourse alive and kicking. Hopefully, I'm right. >.<

[grey_moon]

I still have a good feeling that Irene is still alive. I see no reason for the author not to show Irene's execution other than saying she's going to appear again, ofcourse alive and kicking. Hopefully, I'm right. >.<

Well I was surprised at her surviving Priscilia, she might well surprise me again (hopefully)

[Xellos-_^]

I still have a good feeling that Irene is still alive. I see no reason for the author not to show Irene's execution other than saying she's going to appear again, ofcourse alive and kicking. Hopefully, I'm right. >.<


But what possible reason for Rafaela to spare her life.

1. Rafael was specifically to kill Irene
2. Irene acknowledge that even if she had 2 good arms she couldn't been able to beat Rafaela. This is the same Irene who with 1 good arm easily beat a #4 Ophelia.

Not saying it is not possible but what possible reason could Rafaela have for disobeying the Organization?

[FlareKnight]

I wonder if Irene would really fight to avoid her execution. Obviously she couldn't fight in the literal sense of using her flash sword since she gave up her right arm. But running is never a bad idea and who's to say she might not be able to pull it off? Curious though if she would put up the struggle, she doesn't seem the type to really go against things that seem..hmm not sure of the word (fate? inevitable, impossibe?) . But of course she did envy Teresa so its possible combining with not wanting to die she'd do everything she could to live on.

Though I can't see Irene sneaking around battlefields looking for recently killed claymores so she can get some arms back on. Guess it's just a slight hope she made it since going down like that wouldn't sit right with me.

It's not that Irene couldn't win with two arms. But she'd only have a chance to which of course speaks for the level that Rafaela is at. Can't think of an incredibly good reason for her to make it, just my preference that she would survive. Relying sadly on the addige of if you don't see them die they might still be alive.

Ophelia really was an interesting character though. I won't delve into the psychological analysis which have been done quite well and I can't complain with them. No doubt she probably didn't want to win after finding out she became what she hated. Maybe there would be no point if she went up against Priscilla if she wasn't a claymore, being awakened like her wasn't the way she'd want to win. At least in the end she understood why her brother was smiling, even if it was at the very end.

[stormy001_M1A2]

When Ophelia awaken, the game is over for her. So she see no reason to win against Claire and let her win it.

[Poochi]

Why is it that Irene had no probelms with Ophelia who is at No 4 whereas she admits she can't beat Rafaela who is at No 5?

Irene cutting her only arm off was crazy. How does she plan to survive? Kick at a tree trunk and catch the falling fruit with her mouth?

For a second, I almost thought things would go overboard and Clare would nab some power-up from Opelia, glad it wasn't that obvious.

[HinaThePrince]

Why is it that Irene had no probelms with Ophelia who is at No 4 whereas she admits she can't beat Rafaela who is at No 5?

Ilene said so herself - Rafaela is much too strong to be stuck at number 5.

Irene cutting her only arm off was crazy. How does she plan to survive? Kick at a tree trunk and catch the falling fruit with her mouth?

She didn't plan on surviving. She knew she was going to die and she was completely at peace with it.

[Gavrielo]

When Ophelia awaken, the game is over for her. So she see no reason to win against Claire and let her win it.

It's strange that an Awakened One would lose easily, most want to live on and act on impulse or w/e. I think Ophelia had enough willpower to control herself at that time, but it's still strange 'cause she had so long a period for the yoma in her to take over completely. Maybe the strong emotion of wanting vengence for her brother on the one horned one kept her from going berserk, when she realised she had become what she loathed. It's strange still -.-, 'cause if she could control herself as an Awakened then why not just go after Priscilla in that form -.-?

[Trax]

Another way of looking at it would be that Ophelia was just as irrational as an awakened being than she was as a claymore.

[monir]

Dying is so easy in this show. Yet, I'm still not getting used to death which are taking me by surprise everytime because of the way these deaths are happening. I didn't see Ophelia's death coming so soon. What really took me by surprise was how Ophelia didn't even know she turned into an awaken being.

Obviously the Theresa arc makes for pretty much the grounding of the entire story, but it certainly is a very powerful base for them to build the story around, and I don't think this can be understated. I think, any reference they make to that arc in the future, even really minor ones, will positively serve the overall story.
Theresa is such a gigantic character in regards to this show that it amazes me everytime to think that such character has been captured in a couple of episodes. Technically, it's 4 episodes but her character was established in those two episodes when she gets to know Clare. Any references that ties back to Theresa will enhance the show indefinitely even with a decent effort from the animators.

[Negativedark]

You know, Raphelia could have misjudged the deph of her cut. I mean she only has one eye so she could have horrible depth perception.

[jor8888]

But what possible reason for Rafaela to spare her life.

1. Rafael was specifically to kill Irene
2. Irene acknowledge that even if she had 2 good arms she couldn't been able to beat Rafaela. This is the same Irene who with 1 good arm easily beat a #4 Ophelia.

Not saying it is not possible but what possible reason could Rafaela have for disobeying the Organization?

Not everyone follow the Org's order so maybe Irene is still alive and Rafael is more than just #5 b/c the # system dont always indicate the true power. Her story will be told later.

[stormy001_M1A2]

It's strange that an Awakened One would lose easily, most want to live on and act on impulse or w/e. I think Ophelia had enough willpower to control herself at that time, but it's still strange 'cause she had so long a period for the yoma in her to take over completely. Maybe the strong emotion of wanting vengence for her brother on the one horned one kept her from going berserk, when she realised she had become what she loathed. It's strange still -.-, 'cause if she could control herself as an Awakened then why not just go after Priscilla in that form -.-?

In first place Ophelia is not even sane to begin with. She has high IQ but horrible EQ, so common sense is really left wanting for her case. As someone pointed out brilliantly, her psychology is centered around games since she instinctively knew that her alone is no match for one horned Awaken Being. However she is no slouch either, being no 4 in ruthless mercenary hunting group is no easy task. So she appoint herself as the filter.

In twisted way, she is hoping and looking for someone who she felt can take on her grudge of Priscillia. In order to do that, she devised seemingly sadistic games to weed out what she considered as weak and find the strong one to kill Priscillia as ultimate goal. In other words she did not mind to die if she can find one who can actually beat her in the rigged game of hers.

So when she got to know a no 47 Claymore actually survived an encounter of male Awaken Being, normally she will pounce on this and requested a team support consisted of Claire only, to test if the no 47 is up to what she expected or wanted. It is easy to see from her logic.

However because of doing it too long, she developed a psychosis for game as it provided her so much excitement and thrill just like how those SS officers found joy in killing Jews in Second World War as time goes by. She did not realise or she did not care about it, she just want the joy of killing what she perceived as undeserved in finding the true one who can carry on her revenge for her beloved brother.

One sure quality of evil people is lack of empathy and Ophelia is at first have that in spades. But in her final moments, she empathize with Claire desire to kill Priscillia and her humanity resurfaces. Realizing now that she is no different from one horned Awaken Being since she is a monster herself, she let Claire to kill her in the end. And cried, remembering the last smile her brother has before he become food for the one horned monster.

However, this is just my speculation and ideas. It can be wrong of course.

[Amirali]

Clare's like a borg.

You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.

I think Ophelia actually used the resistance is futile line back in ep 13, when she was taunting Claire by the river :) (although translation might have been liberal).

For mine, the episode just didn't click. One reason was that I didn't understand why Irene would risk revealing her yoki, or cut her own arm off for Claire :s. Maybe she felt her own life had no purpose since she had withdrawn from battle, or she felt guilty about what happened to Teresa, or whatever. Heck, its one thing to protect your comrade's life in a common battle (like with the fab four back in ep9-11) but not what we saw here Unlike Raki/Claire or Claire/Teresa where the relationship has been built to show possibility of such extreme sacrifice.........I just didn't see it with Irene/Claire.

Kinematics, your analysis of Ophelia and her motivations was awesome............I would have liked her character much better if I felt the anime represented her the way u did. But by the end, she just seemed suicidal. The game she played in her last fight with Claire was hardly unfair or stacked against her to test her ..........rather, it was "do you have enough power to cut up my body, while I make no effort to dodge you or to stop you from slicing me up into little bits"? Unlike her earlier games (which were sadistic and demanding), this just came across as weak and self-loathing to me. Defeating an awakened Ophelia who hardly used 5% of her power doesn't seem a good indicator to me that Claire is strong enough to beat Priscilla.

I guess the suicidal surrender makes sense considering Ophelia had awakened, and she hated ABs.........but its not very interesting. Unlike in episode 13, where I felt Ophelia was about to kill Claire, there was no sense of peril here.......you could tell they both wanted Ophelia to be killed by Claire. I don't think the "testing" Claire aspect played much of a role here.

The anime was trying to show a softer, more "moe" side to Ophelia with her regrets and encouragement to Claire. But the character ended up feeling between two extremes for me. At the start, she had that whole cool , dangerous villain feel about her but her weakness and tears at the end compromised that. On the other hand, her tears and (effective ) suicide also weren't enough to make me feel much sympathy for her...........how many humans has she killed, how many young girls has she made cry for their Onee-san that Ophelia killed?
There was no issue of remorse, let alone any redeeming acts to make up for the evil she did. Clare, Miria, even Priscilla went through a lot of bad stuff. At least Priscilla tried to be a hero , in her own misguided way early on and then become one bad-ass villain later. Ophelia just cursed her own Onee-san, killed humans but who was an entertaining sadistic bitch until she crumbled and gave up.

[Rotton the Wizard]

Still, I find it amazing how by becoming an Awakened One, she basically became more human than ever, at least as far as reasoning goes.


Ever since I noticed this in the episode, I wondered if Priscilla also has any humanity left inside of her after awakening. We still don't know much about her character besides that she was an inexperienced and naive child who had a very 'black and white' view of justice during the hunt for Teresa, and that she killed her yoma father after he killed the rest of her family.

If awakened ones still maintain at least a little of their human emotions after awakening, I wonder if there's more to Priscilla than we are led on to believe. It could be that her childish mind was completely taken over by her yoma side after awakening, but I can't help but wonder if there's more depth to her than just being the most powerful being in the planet who likes eating human intestines.

EDIT: Also just wondering, but is Irene the first NO-ARMED badass in anime history ever? If not, then who?

[stormy001_M1A2]

I think Ophelia actually used the resistance is futile line back in ep 13, when she was taunting Claire by the river :) (although translation might have been liberal).

For mine, the episode just didn't click. One reason was that I didn't understand why Irene would risk revealing her yoki, or cut her own arm off for Claire :s. Maybe she felt her own life had no purpose since she had withdrawn from battle, or she felt guilty about what happened to Teresa, or whatever. Heck, its one thing to protect your comrade's life in a common battle (like with the fab four back in ep9-11) but not what we saw here Unlike Raki/Claire or Claire/Teresa where the relationship has been built to show possibility of such extreme sacrifice.........I just didn't see it with Irene/Claire.




Well, Ilena/Irene has no interest to fight anymore but she did recognized Claire's willingness to take the fight to the enemy and respected it. That's how I see it. So she think might as well pass her skills and if necessary her limb to help her to see it through. Also Ilena/Irene have a healthy respect for Theresa and I believed that she decided Claire must live since she is "daughter" of Theresa.

After all she got nothing to lose except her aimless life.

No matter how long you retired, you still have the itch from your younger days.

[EasyPrey]

Finally we get to see the end of the Ophelia arc. EasyPrey has predicted that when two girls are fighting, it means they want to stop and kiss. Was he right?

Yes! He was nearly correct! This episode ends with a naked embrace similar to what he predicted two episodes ago. The man is amazing. Even if only one of the Claymores was naked at the time it was definitely an intimate and passionate embrace so it counts as close enough to the heralded kiss.

Thanks for the kind praise!!! :D :D :D

I am going to share with all of you my secret for predicting future events in Anime. A word of caution: This is my ultra secret (patent pending!) strategy.

It is very simple really. I always predict Yuri in future episodes. ;)

I am bound to be correct sooner or later out of sheer dumb luck. :cool:
With a track record of excellent predictions, it is time for me to look into the future. Here is what we know:

1) Ophelia had a pony tail. ;)

2) Ophelia had a nice rack. :D

3) Ophelia is dead. :(

4) Lets face it, Clare got about as much sex appeal and the three stooges. :(

5) We need another babe to replace Ophellia.

Therefore, it is time for my next predictions. I am willing to go out on a limb and predict that there will be at least one more babe (preferably undressed) introduced to us in the future. :cool:

----------

On a serious note, I was just taken back in awe by the awesome job of voice acting for Ophelia by Emiko Shinohara (http://www.usagi.org/~doi/seiyuu/shinohara-emi/). She truly captured Ophelia's mental state. This Anime truly has some top notch voice acting.

I thought Galatea's voice acting was the best so far. After watching this episode, I came to the conclusion that the voice acting for Ophelia may have been the best in the Anime to this date. Kudos to Madhouse for recruiting such amazing talents.

-EasyPrey

[FatPianoBoy]

Following this episode, my analysis of Awakened Beings and half-awakenings has become a bit more refined:

Ophelia's train-of-thought was especially interesting: I'm really hungry -> I want some meat -> I want some soft, juicy meat -> I want some organs -> I want your organs. Even after this she still hadn't realized that she'd awakened (and she went so far as to take a bite out of Clare), which means that something takes over deep within the instinctive area of the psyche; so deep that the person is not consciously aware of the change. It must be a core alteration so as to avoid conflicting with the rest of the person's thought patterns, which unfortunately would suggest that Awakened Beings, however intelligent, cannot coexist with humans due to their overwhelming need to consume human flesh.
Ophelia's maintained cognizance raises some very interesting questions about Priscilla; mostly regarding whether or not she was already completely insane (or well on her way to becoming so) before she awakened, her motivations in being so adamant about taking down Teresa, the root of her loyalty to the organization, etc. I would guess that Priscilla was quite "broken" well before she actually visibly lost it. In fact, the moment of snappage seemed to be shortly after Teresa spared her when she went berserk and chased after her. Scary stuff.

As for half-awakenings:
A bit of a conflict in logic approaches: if they surpass their limit and revert, then they couldn't have gone over their limit, since the limit is the point at which they can no longer revert. Instead, it might be said that they increased their limit, which, depending on how much it increased, could still mean that the possibility of truly surpassing it and awakening is not impossible.
If someone managed to increase their limit to a 100% Youki release, then yes, they'd probably never awaken (unless the mental control degrades over time, as was shown with Irena's remark that Clare could only sustain the Flash Sword for one minute).
The relativeness of this is still up in the air, though, as it's possible that releasing just enough Youki to change their eyes may lead to a breakdown of mental control if sustained long enough. Therefore, the length of time a release is safely sustainable may be dependent on the volume of the release, with more intense releases subject to a progressively shorter time limit. In this case, no one would ever be truly immune to awakening.

[Defiled one]

I have no idea how the Youki works. It´s basicly their strenght. Clare didn`t have much youki but she had skills.

Irene said she was nothing, compared to her, not even 1/10..But she also said that clare had fire, fire inside.

She is weak because her body is too slow and less resistant than others.

But, this may be a wild guess but...I think the "almost awakening" may be somesort of regeneration of youma tissue. pumping and pumping until it bursts.

Now if you shake the bottle, the more powerfull it gets... of course Clare would have to almost awaken several times which is somthing impossible beause there isn`t raki around.
Maybe she´s gonna meet another person. The preview showed a little girl. She had a sweet face. Maybe She`s gonna be Clare sidekick.........

[Seska]

Ophelia was not a full flagged Awakened one. You see, what i mean when she gets angry about Clare. Her Head turn more into a Awakened one.

For me she was a ,near the end transform awakened one.

Perhaps, she was always on her Claymore Yoki limit. Only a small step from going awake...


Btw, when Teressa was far more stronger then #2. And because of taken her Blood (1/4 Claymore),... Don't you think, Clares hidden power is more then she guess?

argh, my English is to lame to explain what exactly i mean.... Sorry...


Nehmen wir mal an Teressa wuerde auf einer Skalla von 1-10 (wobei 10 das maximun ist) 13 haben.
Clare nimmt ihr Blut auf, was sie zu 1/4 runterschraubt, gegenueber anderen Claymores.
Aber hebt den nicht Teressas Staerke (13) nicht die 1/4 wirkung wieder auf? so das Sie vieleicht mehr als 50 Human/50 Yoma ist?

Die unbekannte konstante ist, wie stark war Teressa wirklich?

[Defiled one]

All I know they are trying to kill Clare..it´s pretty ovious that clare either bad mouthed someone really important..or she is going to "burst"

[SimplyEd]

Ophelia was not a full flagged Awakened one. You see, what i mean when she gets angry about Clare. Her Head turn more into a Awakened one.

For me she was a ,near the end transform awakened one.

Perhaps, she was always on her Claymore Yoki limit. Only a small step from going awake...


Btw, when Teressa was far more stronger then #2. And because of taken her Blood (1/4 Claymore),... Don't you think, Clares hidden power is more then she guess?

argh, my English is to lame to explain what exactly i mean.... Sorry...

*Nein, weil Teresas Stärke in diesem Fall nicht auf Clare übergegangen ist. Bei der Verschmelzung wird "nur" das Youkipotential wirklich vererbt. Teresas Fähigkeiten , ihre eigene menschliche Stärke gehörten nur ihr, und es gibt bis jetzt kein Zeichen dafür daß so etwas bein Verschmelzungsprozeß mit einbezogen werden kann. Clares eigene körperliche Fertigkeiten waren und sind schon ganz okay aber eben nicht mal annähernd so stark ausgeprägt wie bei Teresa.
Für Youki an sich dürfte der Fall ein wenig anders liegen da man eben nicht wirklich vorraussagen kann wie groß das Potential wirklich im Endeffekt ist.
Wenn Teresas nun gigantisch, oder anders gesagt, fast dem von Priscilla ebenbürtig, war, dann macht es kaum einen Unterschied ob sie nur als "Viertelblut" gilt, da selbst diese Menge eben noch verdammt hoch einzustufen ist.

Es kommt jetzt nur noch darauf an wie gut Clare dieses Potential ausschöpfen kann und wie sehr sie es dann auch noch kontrollieren kann.*


Eh, there are no real spoilers in there, just a bit of basic stuff about how Clares status as 1/4 doesn't necessarily signify too much, concerning her potential.
It's still vastly reliant on Clares own ability to manage her own resources, in terms of physical prowess and her own youki pool, regardless of how big it actually is in the end.

[NoSanninWa]

It makes me wonder... what would clare's nickname be. Her abilities are so diversified, teresa's yoki sensing, irene's flash sword. Maybe she'll be called.... "Clare of all trades" XD On another note, having defeated ophelia no. 4, she probably can enter the position of no. 4 safely. Of course, why rafaela stays as no. 5 is a big question.

She'd be Copy Claymore Clare. :D

We'll have to wait for next episode to see if the Organization will increase her number as a result of this fight.

Dying is so easy in this show. Yet, I'm still not getting used to death which are taking me by surprise everytime because of the way these deaths are happening. I didn't see Ophelia's death coming so soon. What really took me by surprise was how Ophelia didn't even know she turned into an awaken being. Yep. These interesting death scenes and tortured psychological twists are two of the things that really differentiates Claymore from the usual shounen. You really never know who is going to die next. That makes it all the more exciting when someone manages to survive. After all... the name of the show is "Claymore," not "Clare"...

You know, Raphelia could have misjudged the deph of her cut. I mean she only has one eye so she could have horrible depth perception.I suspect that she is likely good enough at youki sensing to know if her opponent is alive or dead.

With a track record of excellent predictions, it is time for me to look into the future. Here is what we know:

1) Ophelia had a pony tail. ;)

2) Ophelia had a nice rack. :D

3) Ophelia is dead. :(

4) Lets face it, Clare got about as much sex appeal and the three stooges. :(

5) We need another babe to replace Ophellia.

Therefore, it is time for my next predictions. I am willing to go out on a limb and predict that there will be at least one more babe (preferably undressed) introduced to us in the future. :cool:You're amazing! It's like you're writing this show! Sort of. So far you've been 100% right with each prediction... if your predictions are looked at sidewise. I can't wait to see what sideways angle will be necessary to make this turn out right. I suppose that what you're really looking forward to is seeing this new naked babe becomes Clare's love slave? :sigh:

[Amirali]

She'd be Copy Claymore Clare. :D


Yep. These interesting death scenes and tortured psychological twists are two of the things that really differentiates Claymore from the usual shounen. You really never know who is going to die next. That makes it all the more exciting when someone manages to survive. After all... the name of the show is "Claymore," not "Clare"...



Yup............whether you like Claymore or not (and for only this one episode I didn't), it keeps you guessing not only who will die next, but how. Maybe that's to the detriment of characters sometimes .........neither Ophelia nor Teresa nor Irene met the kind of fitting death that would have suited their characters in my opinion; I guess that's price of unpredictability.

[Bikerider]

One thing for certain with the Ophelia arc: When hunting / confronting an Awakeneing Being, make sure you have a tender juicy young boy with you to distract the AB. Much easier to kill when it's more interested in a possible dinner than the ickky tasting Claymores about to kill it.

[Laevatein]

EDIT: Also just wondering, but is Irene the first NO-ARMED badass in anime history ever? If not, then who?\

Well, not from anime, but there's the black knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

I wonder if that's what happened to Irene in the end.

Irene: Come back! I'll bite your legs off!

[grey_moon]

I don't agree that Irene was at peace with her self and ready to accept death. She already said earlier she legged it from the org because she was scared of dying.

[Gsus]

I was rewatching the EP, and imagined them in a situation I saw in an anime I can't recall right now.


Irene: "Looks like the size fits quite well"
Clare: "was this suit from back them?"
Irene: "Yes."
Clare: I see, but this suit is quite tight at the top
Irene: ... ¬¬


Isn't that from Ranma 1/2? Where Ranma in female form borrows some clothes from Akane? ;)

Nehmen wir mal an Teressa wuerde auf einer Skalla von 1-10 (wobei 10 das maximun ist) 13 haben.
Clare nimmt ihr Blut auf, was sie zu 1/4 runterschraubt, gegenueber anderen Claymores.
Aber hebt den nicht Teressas Staerke (13) nicht die 1/4 wirkung wieder auf? so das Sie vieleicht mehr als 50 Human/50 Yoma ist?

Die unbekannte konstante ist, wie stark war Teressa wirklich?Liberal translation, bear with me...
Let's assume Teresa is, on a scale from 1 to 10, a 13.
Clare absorbs her blood, which puts her on a 1/4 compared to other Claymores.
But wouldn't Teresa's strenght (13) compensate for the 1/4 disadvantage compared to other Claymores? So she (Clare) is perhaps more that just 50% Human /50% Yoma?

The unknown factor here is how strong Teresa really is.

*Nein, weil Teresas Stärke in diesem Fall nicht auf Clare übergegangen ist. Bei der Verschmelzung wird "nur" das Youkipotential wirklich vererbt. Teresas Fähigkeiten , ihre eigene menschliche Stärke gehörten nur ihr, und es gibt bis jetzt kein Zeichen dafür daß so etwas bein Verschmelzungsprozeß mit einbezogen werden kann. Clares eigene körperliche Fertigkeiten waren und sind schon ganz okay aber eben nicht mal annähernd so stark ausgeprägt wie bei Teresa.
Für Youki an sich dürfte der Fall ein wenig anders liegen da man eben nicht wirklich vorraussagen kann wie groß das Potential wirklich im Endeffekt ist.
Wenn Teresas nun gigantisch, oder anders gesagt, fast dem von Priscilla ebenbürtig, war, dann macht es kaum einen Unterschied ob sie nur als "Viertelblut" gilt, da selbst diese Menge eben noch verdammt hoch einzustufen ist.

Es kommt jetzt nur noch darauf an wie gut Clare dieses Potential ausschöpfen kann und wie sehr sie es dann auch noch kontrollieren kann.*No, because in this case Teresa's strength didn't pass on to Clare. In the fusion only the Youki potential is truly past on. Teresa's abilities, her own human strength belongs only to herself, and there is no sign that something like that would be transferred in the fusion. Clare's own abilities were and are already fine but not as pronounced and apparent as in Teresa.
For Youki the case seems to be alike since you can't predict what that potential will be like in the end. If Teresa were super strong, or in other words, almost as strong as Priscilla, then it wouldn't make a difference if she were a quarterblood, since this mixture would still be very upgradable.
It all comes down to how good Clare can use this potential and how well she can control it.

Well, enough quoting and translating (Ten years since I've had to use German like this, heh).

Interesting side to Ophelia (and kudos for the Shakespeare reference). Don't know what I'm saying? Read Hamlet, hmkay? ;)

Well, you could say that Ophelia threw the fight, but I don't think she did so from the start. I don't doubt she would've killed Clare if she failed her little test. We've seen how she's able to lie in episode 12 (?? not sure). "We can't stand here fighting amongst ourselves! We have to fight together... NOT!".
On the status of Awakened Ones, we've seen that Ophelia and the earlier male AO were in complete control of their minds / feelings, albeit with a nasty urge to eat guts. I'm guessing that a AO, in complete control, unlike Priscilla, and with a high power rating, like Priscilla (former number 2), would be a formidable foe, and a suitable end boss here ;)

And I'm afraid Irene's dead. Raphaella has no reason to spare her life. Unless Irene went Chun Li on Raphaella. :rolleyes:

[Nightbat®]

AO's are strange, just look at the one Clare and Ophelia had to fight
If I didn't know better I'd had thought that one partied a little too hard the night before

[Gavrielo]

I do hope Irene is still alive =/

[Anh_Minh]

Her survival is going to be a tough sale. What non-lame scenario would result in her survival?

And no, I don't consider the use of the flashlegs to be non-lame.

[Amirali]

Well, you could say that Ophelia threw the fight, but I don't think she did so from the start. I don't doubt she would've killed Clare if she failed her little test. We've seen how she's able to lie in episode 12 (?? not sure). "We can't stand here fighting amongst ourselves! We have to fight together... NOT!".
On the status of Awakened Ones, we've seen that Ophelia and the earlier male AO were in complete control of their minds / feelings, albeit with a nasty urge to eat guts. I'm guessing that a AO, in complete control, unlike Priscilla, and with a high power rating, like Priscilla (former number 2), would be a formidable foe, and a suitable end boss here ;)



Well, Ophelia would have killed Claire if she failed the test she set........I agree with you on that. Still, I think she could have come up with something a lot more challenging than "slice my body up completely before you awaken". Not that it was easy in of itself........but its trivial compared with fighting a high ranking awakened one going all out. Also from her comments, its obvious that she wanted Claire to beat her. I guess thats logical enough, but it took a lot of the dramatic tension out of the fight for me. Eh,they'll probably make up for that later.

I also felt it was childish of Claire to try and fight by Ophelia's terms of her game, instead of just making sure she won the battle as soon as possible. That's the same foolishness Irene chided Priscilla for, when she wanted to take on Teresa in a "fair" one-on-one fight. Fighting is about survival, not about passing a set of rules or tests

If Claire ever got a chance to decapitate Priscilla from behind, she'd probably turn it down for a chance to have an even duel. Sigh. Irene had the right idea; take victory any way you can get it. If fair play was always what won battles, Priscilla wouldn't have been able to beat Teresa.

[Guido]

Well, Ophelia would have killed Claire if she failed the test she set........I agree with you on that. Still, I think she could have come up with something a lot more challenging than "slice my body up completely before you awaken". Not that it was easy in of itself........but its trivial compared with fighting a high ranking awakened one going all out. Also from her comments, its obvious that she wanted Claire to beat her. I guess thats logical enough, but it took a lot of the dramatic tension out of the fight for me. Eh,they'll probably make up for that later.

I also felt it was childish of Claire to try and fight by Ophelia's terms of her game, instead of just making sure she won the battle as soon as possible. That's the same foolishness Irene chided Priscilla for, when she wanted to take on Teresa in a "fair" one-on-one fight. Fighting is about survival, not about passing a set of rules or tests

If Claire ever got a chance to decapitate Priscilla from behind, she'd probably turn it down for a chance to have an even duel. Sigh. Irene had the right idea; take victory any way you can get it. If fair play was always what won battles, Priscilla wouldn't have been able to beat Teresa.

As you can see Clare is still some of her past child self. A child with drives and motivations to lop off the head of the one-horned monster.

[Anh_Minh]

amirali: Yeah, but you're going to have to make up your mind on one point: did Ophelia "throw" the fight with her little game, or not?

If so, then "cheating" would have resulted in Ophelia going all out, and therefore a tougher fight.

[Amirali]

amirali: Yeah, but you're going to have to make up your mind on one point: did Ophelia "throw" the fight with her little game, or not?

If so, then "cheating" would have resulted in Ophelia going all out, and therefore a tougher fight.

Yeah, good point. I didn't think of it that way. If Claire had tried to cheat, Ophelia would probably have punished her for that. It remains speculation whether Claire had that possibility in mind when she tried to complete the test, or if she just didn't want to take the "cheap" shortcut.

[Negativedark]

Her survival is going to be a tough sale. What non-lame scenario would result in her survival?

And no, I don't consider the use of the flashlegs to be non-lame.

As a friend of mine would say, I have an idea....
Raphelea- "You know I have one eye, you have no arms, and we both have the mysterious whatever's wrong with a Claymore thing. There are some people who get turned on by that kind of thing. If we make a website with the two of us, we'll be rich!"

Horrible, I know. I'm sorry.

[stormy001_M1A2]

If she use flash legs, I will renounce this anime straight away.

[Lendial]

the way she was better than if she had to powerup midfight or worst, she was strong enough after a few days of training and a sexy new arm.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Good episode, I doubt that Ilene died, I'll only really believe a character like that dieing when I see the corpse being shoved through a mincing machine and the remains tossed into an active volcano, to many Anime have shown that unless you see the corpse, chances are they are still alive. So she's either legged it, faked her death again, or she is gave Raphaela the Liverpool kiss. Could be wrong, and I'd be happy if I was (don't get me wrong I do like her character, has some good potential) but I just don't really see it happening.

As for Clare's nick-name, Copycat Clare works IMO. Or Clare of the Assimilation.

[Negativedark]

I prefer Inheriting Claire. It sounds Classyer.

[Kouvley]

And so ends the Ophelia arc.
Some excellent posts on Ophelia here so not much else for me to add on that subject unfortunately. :heh:
One very minor nitpick i have would be that getting impaled in the stomach should not really have killed her considering it happened to Clare back in ep 1 with no problems. Though obviously it had to happen this way because it would spoil Ophelia's death scene if she was headless. :p

On the subject of Irene, I hope she is still alive but the chances are slim - her role in the story seems pretty much finished.

But as long as we don't see a body there's still the possibility of her surviving again. Then perhaps she can get new arms from Deneve now that we've established it can be done - "Spare Parts Deneve" is a plot device waiting to be abused! :D

[Kinematics]

As much as I'd like to see Irene make yet another comeback, I'm guessing that the offscreen death is to keep the reader/viewer from getting a hint of what Rafaela can do, not give a secret escape to Irene.

[wuabel]

One of the best episode so far (Mainly because of Ophelia hotness!)

But seriously, they did a good job showing the psychological state of Ophelia, and cleverly turns her to a good girl ;) I mean, who would expect, of all claymores, Ophelia would be the first that almost makes me cry

And com'on guys, Irene is not going to live, despite how much we love her :(

[FatPianoBoy]

One very minor nitpick i have would be that getting impaled in the stomach should not really have killed her considering it happened to Clare back in ep 1 with no problems.

It's only non-fatal if they bother to regenerate themselves, since that would kill any normal person. Since Ophelia wanted to be put down, I think she'd just let it go.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Don't forget that Claire already cut off 70 percent of Ophelia's body so the last stab is fatal for no 4.

[7thKeeper]

It's only non-fatal if they bother to regenerate themselves, since that would kill any normal person. Since Ophelia wanted to be put down, I think she'd just let it go.

And I think part of it is that that was the human portition of her at the moment. From what I gathered from all that was said, the torso portition of her at the moment was more vulnerable than usual.

[Eksucalibar]

I kinda guessed correctly what happens to clare in this episode w/o reading the manga. Feels gd to actually guess on target xD

[FlareKnight]

As much as I'd like to see Irene make yet another comeback, I'm guessing that the offscreen death is to keep the reader/viewer from getting a hint of what Rafaela can do, not give a secret escape to Irene.
I don't see how showing Rafaela killing Irene will give away any secrets. She has no arms, how much power is it seriously going to take for her to cut Irene's head off? Unless Irene has some great plan of speeding up and knocking out Rafaela with a head-but (how is that for a lame escape plan? :))

Really I think it may be partially to give the fans some hope that she's survived. To save us from seeing a classy warrior who is helpless being killed in cold blood. Or so she can find some secret escape plan and surprise us all by coming back from the dead yet again. Hopefully it's one of the options in which she doesn't die.

For some reason or another since she came back I've got a lot of respect for Irene. So I'd hate to have her added to the killed list.

[KiNA]

Don't you think its painfull to see an armless woman getting killed :(

She futhfilled her role already.. As much as we like her, consider her out of story :(

[NoSanninWa]

I have to agree. Let the armless woman die in peace.

[ArmisaelXVIII]

It also seems as Irene would like to rest in peace. Assuming that Raphaela will show up later (so she won't die) and that she is stronger than Irene. The outcome is probably that Irene will die for sure. And since her mission is to kill Irene, she won't stop unless she is certain that Irene is death.

It would be to much to show up again Irene in the future, yo could say that she completed her role.

]Isn't that from Ranma 1/2? Where Ranma in female form borrows some clothes from Akane? ;)


yes, I was talking about ranma 1/2. He made Akane angry as ever :P



Well, Ophelia would have killed Claire if she failed

I also felt it was childish of Claire to try and fight by Ophelia's terms of her game, instead of just making sure she won the battle as soon as possible. That's the same foolishness Irene chided Priscilla for, when she wanted to take on Teresa in a "fair" one-on-one fight. Fighting is about survival, not about passing a set of rules or tests

If Claire ever got a chance to decapitate Priscilla from behind, she'd probably turn it down for a chance to have an even duel. Sigh. Irene had the right idea; take victory any way you can get it. If fair play was always what won battles, Priscilla wouldn't have been able to beat Teresa.



I like that part, but as you said, it didn't have the tension of a fight. It was more like survival training, a test, but not a fight... at least in the end when the "game" starts.

Clare doesn't share that "honor" of a fair fight like Priscilla. Clare wasn't being childish, she didn't do it to prove herself anything neither she followed it as a game. She was very serious.

Clare just accepted Ophelia as a "human" and accepted her request. She didn't wanted to let her down. Clare saw that Ophelia was helping her and take seriously her help. All for letting Ophelia have at least some rest before dying by knowing that she can trust Clare his will.

Ophelia is the only claymore we have seen (we haven't see many though :P) that despite being an awakened being could die as a human thanks to Clare.

[Amirali]

Clare doesn't share that "honor" of a fair fight like Priscilla. Clare wasn't being childish, she didn't do it to prove herself anything neither she followed it as a game. She was very serious.
Clare just accepted Ophelia as a "human" and accepted her request. She didn't wanted to let her down. Clare saw that Ophelia was helping her and take seriously her help. All for letting Ophelia have at least some rest before dying by knowing that she can trust Clare his will.
Ophelia is the only claymore we have seen (we haven't see many though :P) that despite being an awakened being could die as a human thanks to Clare.

[/COLOR]

Hmm.......its a good point, that I didn't see on first sight. Right from episode 3 (the Black Card), we've seen that its important to Claymores to die "with the heart of a human". Seen in that light, it is a compassionate decision by Claire to go through with Ophelia's game, rather than a proud/childish approach to combat.

However, it still has its risks. Teresa tried to honour Priscilla's request to kill her while she had a human heart; even turning off her own youki release so that she could kill Priscilla by a human hand. Only the most hard-hearted of us could say Teresa was being overly idealistic or compassionate..............but the fact remains Priscilla took advantage of that and surprise attacked Teresa.

Claire shares that compassionate streak with Teresa.............I'm not saying that she would ever extend benefit to Priscilla, but its could still get her killed. In most Shounen, that compassion is supposed to be the protagonists' greatest strength ; but in Claymore it carries its own pitfalls as well.
So , for example we've seen Claire's bond with Raki save her from awakening in Rabona, but we've also seen that almost get her killed on numerous occasions because of that same relationship (the yoma in episode 2, the encounter with Ophelia, etc).

[chrry370]

Claire shares that compassionate streak with Teresa.............I'm not saying that she would ever extend benefit to Priscilla, but its could still get her killed. In most Shounen, that compassion is supposed to be the protagonists' greatest strength ; but in Claymore it carries its own pitfalls as well.
So , for example we've seen Claire's bond with Raki save her from awakening in Rabona, but we've also seen that almost get her killed on numerous occasions because of that same relationship (the yoma in episode 2, the encounter with Ophelia, etc).

100% agree and very glad that Clare has that compassionate streak even after witnessing Teresa's sympathy for Priscilla causing her own demise.

Irene's surviving chances are very minimal, she is in fact armless... This is very sad for me to say, after all, Irene just kick ass in the previous... Why couldn't they leave her alone! :upset:

It was actually satisfying to watch how the strong bond between Clare and Teresa was emphasised by Irene. Thumbs up :) Heart-wrenching when Clare cried when Irene said Teresa was happy to be with Clare... :sad:

Irene's " Teresa was always in her own league." was spot on!

[Mgz]

sigh, is there any chance that irene can run away >.< .. she still has her legs, right? T_T *pray*

[outcast_within]

irene doesnt die that easily. she still has foot-chucks!

all of her yoki directed into one leg conected with a foot chuck.

[SimplyEd]

@ Gsus

Heh, you actually took your time to translate that stuff?^^
I was just offering a little service for Seska, seeing that he had trouble with getting the point across, nothing special. ;)

[Panzerklein]

The fate of Irene is really unknow. Noone sure he die or still alive.
So in the real life, a swimmer can swim without use their arms :D .

[ritalman]

If Irene escaped I have no idea why her arm would have reacted (you can't ignore this event's meaning).
I don't have any problem with off-screen kills and this one was tasteful choice in my opinion. Even though I'm sad not to be able to see my favorite character again, she fulfilled her part and didn't seem to have any regrets left.

[Sinestra]

Don't you think its painfull to see an armless woman getting killed :(

She futhfilled her role already.. As much as we like her, consider her out of story :(

Im going to agree with Kira_Naruto as much as i liked Irene with her im too cool for Yoma school personality, I feel that her role has been accomplished and would not hold any high hope for to come waltzing into a later episode. And yes watching a armless woman getting slaughtered is not something i would want to see. Hell it was hard for me to watch Teresa's beheading over and over and over

[Souten no Seigyoku]

She's dead. She even admits she has no chance against Rafaela even with both arms.

[stormy001_M1A2]

She's dead. She even admits she has no chance against Rafaela even with both arms.

Not really, she said she might have one shot if she have full possession of her faculties.

[Subaru-san]

Hi, not sure if this has been answered yet but just pondering about Ophilia's death. Doesn't the head need to be seperated from the body to fully kill a Claymore?

[Lendial]

it was mentioned before that she wanted to lose and 'die',if she chose not to regenerate she would eventualy die.

[Anh_Minh]

Plenty of wounds other than decapitation are fatal. That fake Claymore missed a vital spot by not much. Miria said Helen's and Deneve's wounds gave them a fifty/fifty chance of survival. If they had been just a little worse, or if they hadn't been half-awakened... Deneve, at least, would have died.

I think it also depends of how much youki you've got left. If you spent it all on the fight, it's easier to die.

[Ejinathan]

somebody who voted 2 on 10. Anti claymore ? It's cool that Clare got something to fight reasonably with.

[ArmisaelXVIII]

Thinking about it, Irene could'va just became a half-awakened, and escaped somehow, but It seems too forced. As for Raphaela, this isn't really related, but may be, there are some claymore working in the shadows for the organization.

47 areas means there are only 47 active claymores. But probably there are mora than that, in training or in the shadows...

Btw, has anyone thought why the last arc was called "The Endless gravestones"?

[FlareKnight]

Yeah I'm the first to admit things probably don't look good for Irene. Of course the arm could be her dying, reacting to the release of yoki in an escape attempt, or maybe just reacting to her being in danger. Sure some are pretty unlikely but heck unless they show a body I'll keep it the way I want to imagine.

She doesn't need to come back and play a big role in what is going to happen down the road even if that'd be pretty cool. Simply that she's become a character I like and knowing she was still out there would be fine. Let her enjoy her retirement I say.

Maybe the person who voted 2/10 didn't like the characters who died? Or could just be one of those random poor votes that happen at times.

[Gavrielo]

It's annoying tho =/, that ep didn't really deserve anything below 6. It was one of anime's most brilliant.

[Deathkillz]

irene will remain a legend...i guess for her living any longer would be pointless after being found out and besides seen as she will never age what is there in life being lonely for all eternity? she has put her soul into clare and that is all that counts...she didnt die in vain ^.^

and for Ophilia...dam it must be painful to be "vapourised" bit by bit O.O

[Xellos-_^]

somebody who voted 2 on 10. Anti claymore ? It's cool that Clare got something to fight reasonably with.


Maybe the person who voted 2/10 didn't like the characters who died? Or could just be one of those random poor votes that happen at times.

The guy who voted a 2 is troll, if you look back at the pervious eps you will see the low score this guy gives each ep.

Just ignore him, the more you pay attention to him the more he will stick around.

[Tom Bombadil]

Btw, has anyone thought why the last arc was called "The Endless gravestones"?

Good question. It sounds pretty cool. But somehow it seems a little bit off the content.
In my Chinese version of the manga, it was called something like "eternal gravestones".
Doesn't make much sense either. Something lost in translation?

[cf18]

I think Irene knows that their training may draw attention. She may already sense Raphaela and give Clare her arm to make her leave. Clare was too focus on combat training to sense that.

Now what kind of relationship will Clare have with the organization? They haven't declare open hostility yet, but can Clare just go back to see a MIB pretending nothing has happened? She will have a hard time explaining the new arm that probably looks rather different from the left arm.

[Gavrielo]

It looked different 'cause it still had Irene's arm clothes on it =/, they probably won't notice it once she discard them ^^

[Seditary]

and for Ophilia...dam it must be painful to be "vapourised" bit by bit O.O

You'd think it'd hurt like hell, but she showed no signs of it at all, maybe because she was concentrating everything on her human parts?

[Ellis]

I really liked this episode; everybody counts on Clare now, she doesn't have to loose... she must avenge and win for Teresa, Irene, Ophelia, etc... lol !
Since there, we saw #6, Miria; #5, Rafaela; #4 Ophelia; #3 Galatea... can't wait to see the others ! ^^

[grey_moon]

It's a shame, but I don't think that Irene will half awaken as her mental strength is too great. The only way I can think how she will be able to survive this is if she uses flash legs, is somehow able to play dead, or one eye wants to keep a pet gimp...

Her arm reacting to something, could have been reacting to Ophelia's presence.

[FlareKnight]

Yeah suppose we may never really know. She seemed at peace living out by herself so I don't think it'd be all that bad if she survived and found another nice place to get by. Of course if she didn't make it she'll go and join Teresa, Noel, and Sophia which may not be a terrible thing either. Of course I just want her living but that's just my thinking.

Things with the organization will be complicated. If we take the mission with Ophelia as trying to get rid of her again. But I don't think they'll go out and try to kill her without something concrete. Long as Clare can avoid Rafaela since she'd probably recognize her presence. Maybe events will get complicated and there won't be a direct need to deal with how the organization regards Clare.

[Amirali]

If Irene escaped I have no idea why her arm would have reacted (you can't ignore this event's meaning).
I don't have any problem with off-screen kills and this one was tasteful choice in my opinion. Even though I'm sad not to be able to see my favorite character again, she fulfilled her part and didn't seem to have any regrets left.

Well, if one wants to clutch for straws that Irene's still alive, maybe the arm reacted to give warning of Ophelia's presence (kind of a "Spidey-sense" effect), and not Irene's death. After all, Ophelia appeared right after that twitch. I agree it was tasteful of them not to show Irene being butchered; she deserves better than that. I have my own opinions about whether her death was fitting or not, but otherwise no doubt her character as cool. Lets see..........maybe we can hope to see her again in a flashback to Teresa's time? Of the 4 Claymores who were sent to kill Teresa, Irene seemed the only one to know her. Also, Irene was very astute about Clare's relationship with Teresa; that indicates she had some understanding of Teresa from past encounters. Interesting history there.

As for people being annoyed by the guy who voted two.........I think its pointless to have votes at all, let alone criticize/analyze them. Like a mod once said (don't remember which one, sorry) the point of forums is for people to express their opinions , and debate their impressions(if they wish). Hence, an arbitrarily assigned number between 1 and 10 isn't relevant to that process. Maybe the person who voted 2 had a well-formed opinion/reasoning; just looking at the number he assigned won't tell us anything.

[Rotton the Wizard]

Like others have pointed out, Irene had pretty much played her role in the story already. Having her die (offscreen or on) though would probably be as equally useless to the plot as having her escape. With that said I'd have to say that even though flash legs would be lame, a dead Irene would be exponentially lamer, unless this Rafaela promises AND is able to carry the burden of Irene's badassery in the same way that Clare is carrying the burden of Ophelia's soul.

Better yet would be if Rafaela decides that killing Irene in cold blood would do nothing for her, and decides to ditch her sword for a one-on-one fisticuffs vs stubs duel. That would be quite possibly the most amazing badass thing to happen in any anime EVER, regardless of how out of place it would be in a show as dark and serious as Claymore.

I firmly believe that anyone who disagrees needs to have their awesome detection meters recalibrated.

[Bikerider]

I can see the reasoning for hunting down runaway Claymores. What's to stop them from becoming Awakened Ones when they run off. Having the small chance that happening is not acceptable to the Organisation.

[dxanato]

I don't think it has to do with them awakening. The are tool while they don't mind when they get kill they do mind when they start to think for themselves. This is bigger problem cause they may turn their sword toward the Organization. If they awake is not an issue cause feeding and the enjoyment of it can generally surpass any other desire they may had had. You can see by Ophelia her desire were to eat and Yoma themselves only interest is generally to eat. This really does not in danger the Organization that much but a Claymore who has living and thinking for herself is danger.

[NoSanninWa]

I feel that both reasons are equally valid. Those are both ways that renegade members can become enemies.

[Trax]

Irene's resigned herself to her fate, she probably knew this might happen. She wasn't exactly surprised when Rafaela showed up. Anyway, I think she's dead, but she had no regrets after teaching Clare the flash sword and giving her arm. Don't get me wrong, I liked Irene, but I would hate to see a second miraculous survival. Stop grasping at straws and let her rest in peace. ;)

[yondy]

You'd think it'd hurt like hell, but she showed no signs of it at all, maybe because she was concentrating everything on her human parts?


I forgot who said this, but it was mentioned before that once you have awakened the sense of pain is gone.

[Souten no Seigyoku]

How strong do you guys think Clare is now?
Before Miria said she could hold her own against #7 on down, but now that she can use Flash Sword in conjunction with her previous yoki reading skills, and beat an awakened #4, is she a #3-4 in disguise?

[dxanato]

I forgot who said this, but it was mentioned before that once you have awakened the sense of pain is gone.


I can't recall any time a Yoma or AB complain about pain every time they get cut either.

Sorry I had to edit my spoiler.

[Fenrir_valindri]

Correction, she beat an awakened #4 that LET her win, Ophelia demonstrated she could have easily killed Clare whenever she wished. As of right now we are unsure of her actual strength level, I would say she would be an even match for a low single digit (as in on even grounds as opposed to holding her own) and maybe be able to hold her ground against some of the lower top 5.

Edit: it probably depends on the individual awakened being, I would say she felt no pain because she seperated what was left of her humanity into a seperate body.

[dxanato]

While it true Ophelia was not going all out in her effort to kill Clare. The monster side of Ophelia is still fairly high. This what Ophelia allow Clare to fight. How high can be argue but it always consider that awaking increase the individual over all power.

Something else to consider is at start of the fight Clare was doing quite well in blocking and attacking Ophelia before Ophelia choose to make into a game.

I think is fair to say that Clare is quite able to take on a AB that would be about average strength by herself is what this fight with Ophelia has prove. Whether she can take on Raphaela, Galatea, Beth or Alicia is different story. Miria point out that this are quite beyond others.

[Lendial]

i would imagine she can take on any claymore except 1 2 3 and 5, so basicly 6 and down she can fight on equal grounds or win.

[Anh_Minh]

I think that in terms of how much youki she can use, as a half awakened, she's in the same ball park as lower single digits.

That would place her on an equal footing for things like strength and speed.

But that doesn't say anything about things like experience, swordsmanship, and such. However, the Flash Sword and her youki sensing are the kind of "special techniques" that would make her worthy of joining their ranks. Once she works on them, anyway. (She isn't fully used to Irene's arm, for example. Since the Flash Sword carries the risk of Awakening with it, she'd better change that.)

[Souten no Seigyoku]

Its funny because shes still ranked #47. After she helped beat the first Awakened Being her rank shouldve gone up. Even a scrubby Awakened would kill a #47. That's why the other 2 claymore were making fun of her. She was supposed to be dead weight.

[Nightbat®]

Irene: "can I have one last request?"
Raphaela: "You can"
Irene: "My nose is itching, I don't want to die with an itching nose, could you scratch it for me?"
Raphaela: "I will."

*Raphaela reaches for Irene's nose, Irene reacts by biting Rapheala's arm off and attaches it to herself while Raphaela lunges back in pain*



...and now 2 claymores with each 1 arm are facing eachother


~To be Continued~

[Bikerider]

oops !!! wrong thread...

[Seska]

Irene: "can I have one last request?"
Raphaela: "You can"
Irene: "My nose is itching, I don't want to die with an itching nose, could you scratch it for me?"
Raphaela: "I will."

*Raphaela reaches for Irene's nose, Irene reacts by biting Rapheala's arm off and attaches it to herself while Raphaela lunges back in pain*



...and now 2 claymores with each 1 arm are facing eachother


~To be Continued~

Well, you all have a littel error here... Who should she suppose to hold the "new arm" on her Shoulder? .......... :) With her Theeths? She need here some help from an outsider or she really needs months to regain a week arm, so she has something that can hold the other arm to reteaching it.

[Lendial]

thats as likely as:
Raph: im too proud to kill you like this, so i suggest we wrestle on the ground, me with my hands tied behind my back.
Irene: this leather is kinda tight , but im fine with that
*add imagination and stir*


So the org knows about her killin ophe right and what a threat she might someday become? the ep ended with rubel smirking as always.

[grey_moon]

She could also spit that toothpick she has hidden in her mouth into Raph's only eye therefore blinding her (although that doesn't stop her sensing her youki..)

[FlareKnight]

Well, you all have a littel error here... Who should she suppose to hold the "new arm" on her Shoulder? .......... :) With her Theeths? She need here some help from an outsider or she really needs months to regain a week arm, so she has something that can hold the other arm to reteaching it.
It's quite easy. She drops the arm onto the ground and falls just right to line things up. Body weight pressing against it should be enough contact while she puts it on. All you've got to do is stretch your imagination a bit :).

[Seska]

Well, Irene could have awakened and eaten the One Eye Claymore that was supposed to kill her :)

[Deathkillz]

Irene: "can I have one last request?"
Raphaela: "You can"
Irene: "My nose is itching, I don't want to die with an itching nose, could you scratch it for me?"
Raphaela: "I will."

*Raphaela reaches for Irene's nose, Irene reacts by biting Rapheala's arm off and attaches it to herself while Raphaela lunges back in pain*



...and now 2 claymores with each 1 arm are facing eachother


~To be Continued~
ah yes...some people really want irene to live they are that desperate to think that she will toss her dignity to hell and use dirty tricks...raphaela is in for a world of hurt if that proves to be true ^.^

[Gavrielo]

I'd find it funny if Irene decided to become an awakened being. Rafaela would be in big doo doo then.

Do you think Rafa will decide to steal Irene's eye in replacement for hers aswell? =/ Lets debate ^^

[Nightbat®]

I'd find it funny if Irene decided to become an awakened being. Rafaela would be in big doo doo then.

Do you think Rafa will decide to steal Irene's eye in replacement for hers aswell? =/ Lets debate ^^

Damn, they're scavaging Irene for parts:D

"Vultures,.. all of you" :frustrated:

[FlareKnight]

It's a body trade apparently. I think at some point Irene is going to need some of those parts.

[83jnd8]

Irene: "can I have one last request?"
Raphaela: "You can"
Irene: "My nose is itching, I don't want to die with an itching nose, could you scratch it for me?"
Raphaela: "I will."

*Raphaela reaches for Irene's nose, Irene reacts by biting Rapheala's arm off and attaches it to herself while Raphaela lunges back in pain*


Raphaela: What are you going to do? Bleed on me?!?

Irene: Come back here! I'll bite your legs off!

:D

[EasyPrey]

i would imagine she can take on any claymore except 1 2 3 and 5, so basicly 6 and down she can fight on equal grounds or win.

I am not sure how you came up with this numbering system. Basically, according to your math, an awakened #4 is the weakest in the top 5. I disagree.

Since we only know the names of the top 2 (never seen them), we cannot know how powerful they are. However, going by the past (Tressa being #1, Irene being #2, so on), we can assume that the current top 5 mirror the past top 5 in terms of power (since that is the best data we have at the moment).

While I agree that Clare with her arm could not take out a healthy Irene (since Clare can't use it as well as Irene could), there is no reason she cannot take out #3 and downwards at this point.

Don't forget, the current #5 is missing an eye. That means that she has no depth perception. Rafaela (#5) can't actually judge how far an object is. All someone has to do is take a couple of steps back and Rafaela (#5) would be dumb founded on why she cannot hit them. :p

I am all for in support of people with disabilities, but this is shonen Anime and I doubt her opponents would give her a handicap of not ever moving during battle. :D

This shows how broken the org's ranking system is. Our Clare is ranked #47 and some girl because she is handicapped, gets a job as rank #5. The org is just pampering to look politically correct. :twitch:

-EasyPrey

PS. Miria already said that they (Clare and co) could fight on equal grounds against #6 and downward, before the hand upgrade.

[saravis]

Disabilities have a tendencies to not mean jack in action shonen. Raphaela could be blind and still be #5. Power levels are what matter in shonen.

[Lendial]

irene easily defeated ophelia, but commented on how absurdly strong raph was for being ranked 5 and that she would still only have a marginal chance even with both arms. its obvious raph is stronger than ophelia, even if ophe is awakened id wager raph is still as strong or stronger. her eye might be a handicap but then again im not sure why she doesnt just regenerate it. galatea is too pretty to be weak, ranks 1 and 2 are most likely uberrrrrrr. 4th was defeated already, and 5th is 5th even though she is likely 2 or 3 in terms of power.

clare with her recent upgrades should be able to take on or at least hold her own anyone below raphaela. and yes it seems miria was right about that little tidbit.

[dxanato]

This are danger water we are in.

If the statement from Irena/Ilena is to be counted she was very much impress with Raphaela. She was not impress with Ophelia at all. Irena/Ilena did comment that Ophelia did belong in the single digit but how fur up can be question. Raphaela not willing to answer any question can also be clue to her strength or character. The aura of mystery give by Raphaela can some time be a spoiler.

[grey_moon]

Sensing youki should make up for her missing an eye, unless they use eyes to sense youki that is....

[Trax]

It's quite easy. She drops the arm onto the ground and falls just right to line things up. Body weight pressing against it should be enough contact while she puts it on. All you've got to do is stretch your imagination a bit :).

You'd have to stretch it even further though, since the wound on her arm would have closed already and it's not possible to reattach a limb then. Politely ask Raf to cut a fresh wound? :p

[Amirali]

I can't recall any time a Yoma or AB complain about pain every time they get cut either.


Claymores are also pretty pain tolerant. When Irene cut her own arm off, she seemed cool and calm enough. There are numerous examples in the series where Claymores fought through pain that should have disabled them. Okay, I remember Miria screamed when she was tortured by that Male AB..............the pain barrier is probably finite.


So the org knows about her killin ophe right and what a threat she might someday become? the ep ended with rubel smirking as always.

At first, from episode 10 to 13, I thought the organization was trying to knock off Clare, but now........after that smile,I'm not so sure. Maybe they have plans for her, that don't involve killing her? Certainly, while Rubel (or the organization) have put her in dangerous situations; you could also interpret it that they've given her every chance to get stronger. Sending her to fight awakened beings, directing her to the area where Irene happened to be hiding (the fact that Rafeala was also there, shows the org knew Irene was in the area). Anyway, tempting as it is, I won't get too far ahead of myself with the conspiracy theories. We should get a clearer insight int the organization's plans soon.

[Lendial]

how does the org exert control over 47 superpowered blondies with big swords? what stops the girls from just leaving and doing what ever the F they feel like.

[Gavrielo]

If they disobey the rules of the organization they get hunted down like Theresa did...

Leaving organization is probably a No.1 rule =/

[FlareKnight]

You'd have to stretch it even further though, since the wound on her arm would have closed already and it's not possible to reattach a limb then. Politely ask Raf to cut a fresh wound? :p
Well if you want me to get into that. After retrieving said limb, Irene heads over to where she has left her sword conveniently the tip pointing up (it's leaning against a bolder or something). Stabbing the area then dropping the limb, falling down and re-attaching it. Anymore questions? :p

how does the org exert control over 47 superpowered blondies with big swords? what stops the girls from just leaving and doing what ever the F they feel like.
Well you've got some like Priscilla who probably completely believe in the organization's virtues and its being a just organization that's helping society. With those ones most wouldn't turn traitor with fear that they'd have others out hunting them.

Maybe they are grateful to the organization for getting this ability to get revenge for those they lost. If they turned on them then no more claymores would be 'created' and eventually no one would be able to protect the humans. So it's almost like they are holding people hostage. Maybe some think why should they go rogue? Things are organized quite well in sending them where they are needed.

[Xellos-_^]

Also where would they go if they turn rogue?

Normal humans are as afraid of Clyamores as they are of Yomas. Form the reaction of most towns to Claymore they couldn't wait for the Claymores to leave town after killing the yomas.

The organization is the only place a Claymore belongs to.

[Nightbat®]

Don't forget, the current #5 is missing an eye. That means that she has no depth perception. Rafaela (#5) can't actually judge how far an object is.

I have one lazy eye and even closing my good eye I can still
grab stuff at random without "missing"

[KiNA]

Claymores are also pretty pain tolerant. When Irene cut her own arm off, she seemed cool and calm enough. There are numerous examples in the series where Claymores fought through pain that should have disabled them. Okay, I remember Miria screamed when she was tortured by that Male AB..............the pain barrier is probably finite.



At first, from episode 10 to 13, I thought the organization was trying to knock off Clare, but now........after that smile,I'm not so sure. Maybe they have plans for her, that don't involve killing her? Certainly, while Rubel (or the organization) have put her in dangerous situations; you could also interpret it that they've given her every chance to get stronger. Sending her to fight awakened beings, directing her to the area where Irene happened to be hiding (the fact that Rafeala was also there, shows the org knew Irene was in the area). Anyway, tempting as it is, I won't get too far ahead of myself with the conspiracy theories. We should get a clearer insight int the organization's plans soon.

Rubel: Hey dudes.. remember the old hag that ranaway after the battle with Theresa? I just got info that our #5 just killed her ...

Thats assuming Rafaela killed Irene..

:uhoh: Dont kill me >.<

[FlareKnight]

Rubel must die. Let's charge....actually maybe someone who has some super fighting abilities could go ahead. I'm more of a not dying type.

[Azure King]

so if claire get another arm (left arm) from another claymore, then she would be closer to 1/2 yoma status? :heh:

[FatPianoBoy]

so if claire get another arm (left arm) from another claymore, then she would be closer to 1/2 yoma status? :heh:

Or her mind would shatter. Seems she's having enough trouble with just one foreign body part.
Also, probably better for Clare socially to not go around scavenging for parts to play Pimp My Claymore ;)

[Amirali]

If they disobey the rules of the organization they get hunted down like Theresa did...

Leaving organization is probably a No.1 rule =/

True, but who does the "hunting down"? Its other claymores. If all of them (or even a majority) agreed to leave org, Rubel would have to come kill them himself :P. So there has to be some reason more fundamental than just the rule to explain why Claymores are loyal.


Well you've got some like Priscilla who probably completely believe in the organization's virtues and its being a just organization that's helping society. With those ones most wouldn't turn traitor with fear that they'd have others out hunting them.
Maybe they are grateful to the organization for getting this ability to get revenge for those they lost. If they turned on them then no more claymores would be 'created' and eventually no one would be able to protect the humans. So it's almost like they are holding people hostage. Maybe some think why should they go rogue? Things are organized quite well in sending them where they are needed.

All valid points, but maybe its crediting the average Claymore with too much altruism? I'd add that the Claymores are without family, so for them the organization is their surrogate for siblings, parental authority etc (with Rubel as one of the father figures :) ). Even in the real world you see militant organizations recruiting children/teenagers because they form attachments easily. In that conversation Galatea has with the handler in ep 12, you see him bring up this whole "parental" role. I know it sounds corny, but remember for most of these claymores the only family they've known is the organization since they were an impressionable 11 or 12 years old, or even younger. Its difficult to walk away from that family even if u have complaints or misgivings.

Also where would they go if they turn rogue?
Normal humans are as afraid of Clyamores as they are of Yomas. Form the reaction of most towns to Claymore they couldn't wait for the Claymores to leave town after killing the yomas.
The organization is the only place a Claymore belongs to.

Well, as we saw briefly in the time that Teresa was with Clare, the fear of the people isn't that big of an issue. If you save villagers, there are always a few who are grateful, and whom the Claymore can make a bond with................as for the rest of the villagers, they may be afraid but they pay hard gold for claymore services...........no more leaving it behind for someone to collect later.

[Seska]

Or her mind would shatter. Seems she's having enough trouble with just one foreign body part.
Also, probably better for Clare socially to not go around scavenging for parts to play Pimp My Claymore ;)

Well, it's the funny way to answer the part, why there is not a Defensive Body parts producer Claymore... (well, its my mind). Or the writer gives Clare this kind of skill for her only... reteaching other body parts, how knows...

[TougeSil80]

At first, from episode 10 to 13, I thought the organization was trying to knock off Clare, but now........after that smile,I'm not so sure. Maybe they have plans for her, that don't involve killing her? Certainly, while Rubel (or the organization) have put her in dangerous situations; you could also interpret it that they've given her every chance to get stronger. Sending her to fight awakened beings, directing her to the area where Irene happened to be hiding (the fact that Rafeala was also there, shows the org knew Irene was in the area). Anyway, tempting as it is, I won't get too far ahead of myself with the conspiracy theories. We should get a clearer insight int the organization's plans soon.


The org probably sees them as a test group or something. Maybe they want their claymores to last longer without awakening. Since Clare and the others are like half awakened, they are probably testing them out, see how far they would go to eventually awaken.

[FatPianoBoy]

True, but who does the "hunting down"? Its other claymores. If all of them (or even a majority) agreed to leave org, Rubel would have to come kill them himself :P. So there has to be some reason more fundamental than just the rule to explain why Claymores are loyal.

Which seems to be the reason that they don't waste time in dealing with those who begin to show signs of independence without actually leaving: if they begin gathering support, they'd have a full-blown civil war, and a civil war would not be good for business. It's probably the reason why they try to deal with them discreetly, as well: by sending them to Awakened Beings rather than other Claymore, they avoid possibly contaminating the assassin with the target's ideals (since everyone talks so much during fights for some reason :p), which wouldn't solve anything.

Well, it's the funny way to answer the part, why there is not a Defensive Body parts producer Claymore... (well, its my mind). Or the writer gives Clare this kind of skill for her only... reteaching other body parts, how knows...

Humor aside, it is a pretty good idea. However, I doubt anyone could stand such a job, as getting a limb hacked off and regrowing it seems to take a lot out of a person. I could see it happening in the field as needed between comrades, but not as an employee of some kind of Claymore hospital, though.

[Seska]

And we have here Deneve as a special fast regen type, cause of her half awakened state....

[FlareKnight]

Was just thinking to myself. Before getting that arm Clare's FS was about 1/10 of Irene's in speed and power. While Irene said having her arm would make it easier any thoughts on how much better Clare is with that arm (assuming the time necessary to be used to that arm)? I know there probably isn't some clear % just curious.