View Full Version : Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll
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I hope we see Erio get seemingly killed in the battle.
krisslanza
2007-07-22, 09:43
Need episode 17 naaaaoooooo! Who'd ever think I'd be waiting in antipaction so much for a show I can't understand well without it being subbed... XD
This thread popped up fast. :heh: Oh well, time for the wait.
And yes I DO wanna know what Caro is crying about. :3
I want to know what Subaru is going berserk over.
And if this episode doesn't have the second OP, I'll be surprised and convinced that it will never come.
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 09:57
Well, to be frankly honest, the moment Episode 16 didn't have the new OP, 2 things came into my mind. Either they're still animating/in production of it or Episode 16/17 has something so mindfuckingly spoilerific yet OP-necessary putting it in the OP before it happened would be a travesty. Nanoha is not known to be as open on their spoilers like say... Sunrise shows after all.
I think OP2 will be in the next episode instead of this. It is still Part-II of a two-episode thing after all.
Here's hoping to see the last 3 Numbers show themselves now.
An Hero in Disguise
2007-07-22, 10:17
Maybe we'll be able to see full power of the Aces to some extent (aside from large-scale bombardment I guess) at last. OC thread relevant :rolleyes:
Deathkillz
2007-07-22, 10:50
Well, to be frankly honest, the moment Episode 16 didn't have the new OP, 2 things came into my mind. Either they're still animating/in production of it or Episode 16/17 has something so mindfuckingly spoilerific yet OP-necessary putting it in the OP before it happened would be a travesty. Nanoha is not known to be as open on their spoilers like say... Sunrise shows after all.
I think OP2 will be in the next episode instead of this. It is still Part-II of a two-episode thing after all.
Here's hoping to see the last 3 Numbers show themselves now.
we could very well be missing one of the forwards in the next OP sequence so you never know :p
FlareKnight
2007-07-22, 11:27
Yeah do agree there has to be something in that OP that they don't want to show until it's happened in the episode. While it's possible to see it this time if it happens this episode since your going to just see it. Probably we'll see something in episode 18 depending of course what happens today.
It'll be a fun episode to watch since things are getting serious. Forwards in tough, Aces+Signum trying to get their devices to join the fray, and a possible battle for Vivio with Zafira cutting loose.
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 11:35
we could very well be missing one of the forwards in the next OP sequence so you never know :p
When you put it that way, Teana's the likeliest to die, you know. :rolleyes:
Her backstory's done, there doesn't seem to be any real addition to her extra-modes, Jail doesn't give a damn about her, it'd make perfect reason for berserk!Subaru and sad!Caro, and in replacement, we get Vice instead. :p
Holy.
Shit.
BTW some of your guesses from 16 may be correct.
Wait for thisguy's summary but you're gonna.. wow.
Airing's just done, and I have to agree with aers.
Holy. Shit.
Moving onto summery, but I think this EP was as self-explanatory as it can go...
Holy.
Shit.
BTW some of your guesses from 16 may be correct.
Wait for thisguy's summary but you're gonna.. wow.
You mean after an awesome episode of Gurren Lagann today (uh... yesterday...) I'm getting an awesome episode of Nanoha StrikerS?
Some caps I took off the peercast stream. I was going to make more but I was too busy freaking out.
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2047/vlcsnap605175ij6.png
Yes, that IS what you think it is as her arm.
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1493/vlcsnap608813vl1.png
(my caption for this one: i has a voltaire lol!)
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/6421/vlcsnap608783wi4.png
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/814/vlcsnap611539tj9.png
FlareKnight
2007-07-22, 11:45
Damn this sounds pretty exciting. Can't wait to get to see this one :).
Ouch poor Zafira >< there goes his chances to shine for the rest of the series.
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 11:49
Well, putting aside the Type-0 thing for a moment, (( after all that speculation, doesn't come as much surprise now. The scene with Mariel and Nove may had hinted too much...more than necessary. ))
Are those...skyscrapers under Voltaire!?
Could this be...
Subaru and Ginga are both Cyborgs built by Jail! The 2 tubes in ep 6, did it belong to them?
Deathkillz
2007-07-22, 12:03
Some caps I took off the peercast stream. I was going to make more but I was too busy freaking out.
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2047/vlcsnap605175ij6.png
Yes, that IS what you think it is as her arm.
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1493/vlcsnap608813vl1.png
(my caption for this one: i has a voltaire lol!)
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/6421/vlcsnap608783wi4.png
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/814/vlcsnap611539tj9.png
okey wtf...so shes a cyborg :O perhaps their mother's DNA was used which is then mixed with cloning (project F) and relic technology to create a fighting warrior...*shivers*
i see red eyes! :D
and why is zafira still in dog form when he is injured T.T
Daisuke CP9
2007-07-22, 12:06
Wow. So Ginga and Subaru would have had the potential to be Numbers is what you all mean? Whoa...Man...
Oh and poor Zafira T_T....
okey wtf...so shes a cyborg :O perhaps their mother's DNA was used which is then mixed with cloning (project F) and relic technology to create a fighting warrior...*shivers*
Ok.. basically, Subaru couldn't contact Ginga on her com, and freaked out and went looking for her.. she comes rolling up to three of the numbers, one holding Ginga up by the hair, Ginga is covered in blood.. Subaru's eyes go yellow (like some of the number's eyes), and she screams and powers up. you know the type of thing I'm talking about here >_> She then proceeds to destroy one of the numbers (who seem to be loading Ginga's body into a case...) and they flee the scene, leaving the number who i never remember (grey hair, knife like weapons) to delay Subaru. Subaru breaks said number's barrier and knocks her down, the number retaliates with an attack that destroys subaru's barrier jacket and tears that hole in her arm, but subaru is still moving.. the number cringes back but is rescued just in time by that little cheating deep diver ability :( subaru falls to the ground crying as nanoha flies up with teana
I think they were Jail's first subjects (must be at a younger age when Jail wasnt being targetted yet when Subaru's dad thought it will be a great idea to give his daughter some cyborg enhancements at an early age and let the doctor go nuts with Subaru and Ginga and his experiments. The missing tubes must have belonged to those two girls
So in the end, they got A Type-0 but they didn't get THE Type-0 we were introduced to?
So where are the screencaps?
Some better screencaps ganked from those people on 2chan who get lovely quality day1 screencaps :(
http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/3130/1185124455952pg0.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4966/1185124252911rq2.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2982/1185124288379fr4.jpg
and why is zafira still in dog form when he is injured T.T
I always thought the human form is the temporary one, considering they were created based on animals and return to that form once the master died or too weak(just like the twins).
Could this be...
Subaru and Ginga are both Cyborgs built by Jail! The 2 tubes in ep 6, did it belong to them?
Maybe not since Subaru were called type 0 and those tubes was labeled V and XI? (cant remember exact number)
Deathkillz
2007-07-22, 12:20
She then proceeds to destroy one of the numbers (who seem to be loading Ginga's body into a case...) and they flee the scene,
Some better screencaps ganked from those people on 2chan who get lovely quality day1 screencaps :(
http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/3130/1185124455952pg0.jpg
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4966/1185124252911rq2.jpg
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2982/1185124288379fr4.jpg
wow thanks! :D so...
ginga nee is MIA! and is going to die soon (heres some nice pessimistic thought for ya) ~ but loading her into a case? :twitch: seems like she is treated like an experimental subject...
right time for me to watch this on nico :3
I always thought the human form is the temporary one, considering they were created based on animals and return to that form once the master died or too weak(just like the twins).
Maybe not since Subaru were called type 0 and those tubes was labeled V and XI? (cant remember exact number)
They could possibly been an earlier experiment but again I am running into another roadblock.
FlameSparkZ
2007-07-22, 12:27
Some caps I took off the peercast stream. I was going to make more but I was too busy freaking out.
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2047/vlcsnap605175ij6.png
Yes, that IS what you think it is as her arm.
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1493/vlcsnap608813vl1.png
(my caption for this one: i has a voltaire lol!)
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/6421/vlcsnap608783wi4.png
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/814/vlcsnap611539tj9.png
I knew it! x 2
Subaru is a cyborg! Funny how Jail didn't notice Subaru was one in ep 5 lol
As for Voltaire... the screenshot isn't big enough, but it looks like him... :D
"Arise, o ancient one..." :heh:
Gearhead
2007-07-22, 12:29
Funny how Jail didn't notice Subaru was one in ep 5 lol
Actually. Fate, Erio and Subaru all three were up on the screen when Jail was remarking about Project F. The camera only focused on Fate and Elio, though. You can see her elbow at the edge of the shot, though.
Actually. Fate, Erio and Subaru all three were up on the screen when Jail was remarking about Project F. The camera only focused on Fate and Elio, though. You can see her elbow at the edge of the shot, though.It all makes sense... Now imagine if Subaru was the one who killed her mother. :upset:
Gearhead
2007-07-22, 12:42
It all makes sense... Now imagine if Subaru was the one who killed her mother. :upset:
No telling yet. She could be just about anything.
Hey, instead of Jail being the big bad boss, it might be Uno instead...She must be pretty important given her introduction speech for this episode.Plus she absorbed almost everything that they collect(Multiple IS)
Nico is loading very very slow ...as usual :sad:
Funny how Jail didn't notice Subaru was one in ep 5 lol
Yeah he did, Subaru pic actually was there the whole time(3rd screen) even after he flipped the 1st two to Erio/Fate..The only one not on screen was Teana
No telling yet. She could be just about anything.And this is my speculation, based off something spookily similar in the OC thread:Genya: :eek: *name*! No... (cradles wounded wife)
?????: (patchy breathing) Save them... They're only girls!
Gearhead
2007-07-22, 13:00
Genya: :eek: *name*! No... (cradles wounded wife)
?????: (patchy breathing) Save them... They're only girls!
Eerily plausible now.
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 13:09
The hell? For types created for close-combat, Nove and Uendi don't seem particularly impressive at all.
On the other hand, the younger pair of Dido and Otto seem far more impressive.
Just finished part b
Erio and Vice past was pretty interesting :)
-Unlike most speculation Vice's past doesn't seem to relate to Teana at all.He quite being a mage because on one mission he accidentally shot the hostage (a small girl/right on one of the eye ><)...Seeing/Aiming Lutecia made him freak out and get owned :heh:
-Erio was not grown completely grown at the lab , he grew up with a family before taken away.Is he the clone of the son that family lost? Cant get part of that conversation, crap audio.
Just finished part b
Erio and Vice past was pretty interesting :)
-Unlike most speculation Vice's past doesn't seem to relate to Teana at all.He quite being a mage because on one mission he accidentally shot the hostage (a small girl/right on one of the eye ><)...Seeing/Aiming Lutecia made him freak out and get owned :heh:
-Erio was not grown completely grown at the lab , he grew up with a family before taken away.Is he the clone of the son that family lost? Cant get part of that conversation, crap audio.
Could the girl who uses the rumble detonators be the same Girl Vice Shot?
Deathkillz
2007-07-22, 13:19
part 1 ~
1) vita vs zest ~ zomg epicness!! vita asks his objective but her remains silent ~ zest holds a polearm type weapon...
2) in the battle with the forwards we see the numbers struggling under tea's illusions...they are freaked out by the sheer number of illusions...meanwhile caro is constantly buffing tea up ^.^
3) subaru absolutly flacks nove one in a sneak attack while erio destroys undici ~ but without finishing them both off the forwards scatter ~
4) number 5 imforms the other 2 about her situation...she is now fighting with ginga ~
5) the forwards meet up with nanoha and fate chan to give back their devices...subaru cannot contact ginga and gets worried...the long arch is also in trouble it seems ~ the team spils off to do separate tasks
6) we see zafira and shamal out of breath while an unknown number hovers above them...he fires forcing shamal to defend ~ zafira goes mad and attacks but he is countered ny a girl with lightsabers :O shamal's shield smashes and they are bidded goodnight before the guy fires again...
7) vice takes down some drones using his sniping skills
8) fate chan is attacked in the air but she shields caro/erio ~ she tells them to move to a safer place while fate chan fights with number 3 and 7 ~ she uses zamber form!
9) vita is out of breath from fighting with zest...signum comes to back vita up and we see agito unfuse with zest and attempts to blast vita from above ~ vita flies upwards to destroy agito but zest gets there first with his flash move and destroys vita's eisen!
10) rein is unconcious and we see agito going crazy for some reason and faints ~ zest takes agito and retreats...vita calls out to signum for help...rein is unconcious and eisen is smashed...wtf plot hole XD
11) nanoha is carrying tea while subaru finds ginga and 3 numbers...subaru goes berserk!!! her eye goes yellow and she powers up...
Could the girl who uses the rumble detonators be the same Girl Vice Shot?
Nope different face and hair style/color plus he shot the girl on left eye while V has the eye patch on her right.I find it funny how Zest could own White Vita in non unison form easily...he probably didn't go all out in the 1st place earlier :heh:
Village Idiot
2007-07-22, 13:30
Screenie Collage:
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1524/1185126397827pz7.th.jpg (http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1185126397827pz7.jpg)
octoberasian
2007-07-22, 13:31
OMFG! This episode was just... heartbreaking, action-packed, and shock-inducing. Several things get revealed and my jaw is still on the floor.
- Vita and Rein get knocked down, with Rein injured
- Shamal and Zafira get knocked out
- Ginga gets beaten by three Numbers and to just the brink of death
- Subaru comes in, sees her bloody and unconscious goes berserk! This was crazy just watching her go all out on the three Numbers.
- We find out Subaru is a cyborg! That means, as another has suggested, that she and Ginga were both part of Scagliette's experiments and are not entirely human. That is just shocking to learn.
- Erio gets seriously wounded after sparring with Lutecia's pet and gets injured. The craziest part is seeing Caro going berserk, though not on the same level as Subaru, standing over Erio's unconscious body,
Caro summons Fried, but is UPGRADED ala "Digimon" style! Man, I do not want to piss off Caro at all seeing Fried go Neo-Bahamut style on the Drones!
- We also learn a little bit about Vice's past. He made fatal or severe mistake in one of his jobs. I can see why he isn't what he was before. And, seeing Lutecia just made him freak out.
So, who's out of the picture? Half of Riot 6 is practically injured. Ginga is gone. What happens next? I want this week to be over. I need to know what happens. The suspense is going to kill me. >_<
FlareKnight
2007-07-22, 13:35
Damn now that was one wild episode for sure. A ton of huge surprises and character background thrown right onto us.
Well Zafira and Shamal did get a fight. Though really we didn't see much other than them getting smashed down, guess didn't have time for the good stuff. Plus has Zafira seriously lost the ability for human form? They are fighting for it and he's still in that wolf form? Maybe they forgot how to animate him? :heh:
Wow got Erio's past pretty well here. Seems the original did die and he was created and returned to that family. Must be incredibly painful not only to find out your origins like that but after the information was said your 'mother' giving up and letting them take you away.
But hey we got to see Strada mode 2. Kind've reminds me of Vita's Rocket Hammer. Get a bunch of boosters that let Erio fly to a degree and even being knocked back he could recover. Round 2 vs Garyuu went a little better while still getting hurt he cut off his arm blade. Though sadly Erio met the fate of Zafira in getting hit from above by our lightsabre girl.
Wow Ginga and Subaru apparently being cyborgs. Really wouldn't have imagined something like that before the last couple episodes.
Seriously though...http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4189/111xt4.th.png (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=111xt4.png)
Don't tell me that is really the 2nd form...where is the part that is cooler/complicated mentioned in ep14? :heh:
Deathkillz
2007-07-22, 13:39
^ it is total bollox junk i tell ya...erio has failed to impress yet again
part 1 ~
1) vita vs zest ~ zomg epicness!! vita asks his objective but her remains silent ~ zest holds a polearm type weapon...
2) in the battle with the forwards we see the numbers struggling under tea's illusions...they are freaked out by the sheer number of illusions...meanwhile caro is constantly buffing tea up ^.^
3) subaru absolutly flacks nove one in a sneak attack while erio destroys undici ~ but without finishing them both off the forwards scatter ~
4) number 5 imforms the other 2 about her situation...she is now fighting with ginga ~
5) the forwards meet up with nanoha and fate chan to give back their devices...subaru cannot contact ginga and gets worried...the long arch is also in trouble it seems ~ the team spils off to do separate tasks
6) we see zafira and shamal out of breath while an unknown number hovers above them...he fires forcing shamal to defend ~ zafira goes mad and attacks but he is countered ny a girl with lightsabers :O shamal's shield smashes and they are bidded goodnight before the guy fires again...
7) vice takes down some drones using his sniping skills
8) fate chan is attacked in the air but she shields caro/erio ~ she tells them to move to a safer place while fate chan fights with number 3 and 7 ~ she uses zamber form!
9) vita is out of breath from fighting with zest...signum comes to back vita up and we see agito unfuse with zest and attempts to blast vita from above ~ vita flies upwards to destroy agito but zest gets there first with his flash move and destroys vita's eisen!
10) rein is unconcious and we see agito going crazy for some reason and faints ~ zest takes agito and retreats...vita calls out to signum for help...rein is unconcious and eisen is smashed...wtf plot hole XD
11) nanoha is carrying tea while subaru finds ginga and 3 numbers...subaru goes berserk!!! her eye goes yellow and she powers up...
part 2 ~
1) subaru smashes down nove while taking heavy damage herself...eyeparch loli then steaps in and faces subaru while the other 2 escapes with ginga's "corpse"
2) subaru breaks her shield and her rollers are busted...eyepatch loli fires at her and here we see subaru as a cyborg...like a zombie she limps up and begs for ginga to be returned...eyepatch loli is saved by a number and we see an emotional wreckage ~ nanoha soon reaches subaru...
3) in the command center the systems are all screwed...and we see vice guarding his section...lutecia comes into the area and he flashesback to a scene where he killed a kid before due to miss firing ~ vice starts to panic and shake...he is later shot down by lutecia!!!
4) lutecia has captured vivio...caro and erio soon flies in onto the situation and the spot vivio being taken away ~ erio flashes back to when he was taken from his original family ~ erio is indeed a clone from project F as the guys in suits say...
5) form 2!!! it looks the same...HAHAHA! erio jumpa off fried and charges in ~ he flies at lutecia but garyuu intercepts him...he is soon caught off guard by the numbers as with caro who falls into the sea ~
6) III and VII were asking Fate not to say such sad things about Jail being a worst kind of criminal, since he is like a birthfather to Elio and Fate since the life they have is born through Project F which is linked to the Dr, which of course, Fate doesn't give a damn since she has Precia-mama bias and can't accept Jail-papa. They then give up trying to explain then, and leaves, saying they'll meet again, and hopefully a better conversation/explanation then, which leaves Fate angry.
7) caro saves erio from drowning...
8) we see a lifeless zafira shamal and vice
9) now it is caro's turn to go berserk...she begins to summon red eyes ~ she was able to summon him and ZOMG what a sight to behold! :O red eyes fire at the drones and they all go boom!
10) Dr spaghetti relays his message to everyone saying that this is only the beginning...mid childa will fall!! cuts scenes show how the team are all trying their best to save themselves...manic laugther soon follows...
11) everyone is speechless at this carnage...
end...
octoberasian
2007-07-22, 13:44
Damn now that was one wild episode for sure. A ton of huge surprises and character background thrown right onto us.
Well Zafira and Shamal did get a fight. Though really we didn't see much other than them getting smashed down, guess didn't have time for the good stuff. Plus has Zafira seriously lost the ability for human form? They are fighting for it and he's still in that wolf form? Maybe they forgot how to animate him? :heh:
Wow got Erio's past pretty well here. Seems the original did die and he was created and returned to that family. Must be incredibly painful not only to find out your origins like that but after the information was said your 'mother' giving up and letting them take you away.
But hey we got to see Strada mode 2. Kind've reminds me of Vita's Rocket Hammer. Get a bunch of boosters that let Erio fly to a degree and even being knocked back he could recover. Round 2 vs Garyuu went a little better while still getting hurt he cut off his arm blade. Though sadly Erio met the fate of Zafira in getting hit from above by our lightsabre girl.
Wow Ginga and Subaru apparently being cyborgs. Really wouldn't have imagined something like that before the last couple episodes.
That would mean...
Erio was actually a clone as well, like all results from Project F.
Could he be a cyborg as well like Ginga and Subaru??? Is there a possibility that he isn't human at all?
He was recreated in the image of that family's former son, just as how Fate was recreated in the image of Precia's former daughter, Alicia.
So, currently, we have Ginga and Subaru not human and are mere experiments, and the possibility Erio could be something like them, or more like Fate-- another clone.
What other surprises are in store for us now?
FlareKnight
2007-07-22, 13:48
Seriously though...http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4189/111xt4.th.png (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=111xt4.png)
Don't tell me that is really the 2nd form...where is the part that is cooler/complicated mentioned in ep14? :heh:
Hmmm...maybe the complicated part comes from trying to fly via that mode? True it's not a huge difference from before. Instead of a straight charge the boosters now let him spin, control, and recover from being knocked back. Was expecting a massive difference in mode 2.
Well I think Erio is probably a result of Project F. Considering his knowlege of it just seems to make sense that he was a clone from that project. Certainly similar to Fate in being created in the image of a lost child except in this case he kept the original name I think.
Yeah Ginga and Subaru are cyborgs it seems. Fate and Erio Project F. Vivio artificial mage. What's next? Poor Teana really does seem to be one of the more 'normal' people in that place.
serenade_beta
2007-07-22, 13:51
Screenie Collage:
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1524/1185126397827pz7.th.jpg (http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1185126397827pz7.jpg)
The screenshot with Spaghetti made my day. It's early, but it made me very happy. Can't wait to watch it. Ah~, the wonderful destruction~.
^ it is total bollox junk i tell ya...erio has failed to impress yet again
Hmmm...maybe the complicated part comes from trying to fly via that mode? True it's not a huge difference from before. Instead of a straight charge the boosters now let him spin, control, and recover from being knocked back. Was expecting a massive difference in mode 2.
Not counting he got totally owned on it is 1st appearance :p including the clash with Garyuu (Erio received more dmg)... Overrated/false advertisement :heh:
That would mean...
Erio was actually a clone as well, like all results from Project F.
Could he be a cyborg as well like Ginga and Subaru??? Is there a possibility that he isn't human at all?
Probably not , Project F clones seems to be normal human maybe with magical enhancement but Numbers was normally human who incorporated machine into their body.
FlameSparkZ
2007-07-22, 13:52
Hmmm...maybe the complicated part comes from trying to fly via that mode? True it's not a huge difference from before. Instead of a straight charge the boosters now let him spin, control, and recover from being knocked back. Was expecting a massive difference in mode 2.
Well I think Erio is probably a result of Project F. Considering his knowlege of it just seems to make sense that he was a clone from that project. Certainly similar to Fate in being created in the image of a lost child except in this case he kept the original name I think.
Yeah Ginga and Subaru are cyborgs it seems. Fate and Erio Project F. Vivio artificial mage. What's next? Poor Teana really does seem to be one of the more 'normal' people in that place.
Me too...oh well.
It seems the Forwards just got their first defeat.
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 13:53
^ it is total bollox junk i tell ya...erio has failed to impress yet again
part 2 ~
1) subaru smashes down nove while taking heavy damage herself...eyeparch loli then steaps in and faces subaru while the other 2 escapes with ginga's "corpse"
2) subaru breaks her shield and her rollers are busted...eyepatch loli fires at her and here we see subaru as a cyborg...like a zombie she limps up and begs for ginga to be returned...eyepatch loli is saved by a number and we see an emotional wreckage ~ nanoha soon reaches subaru...
3) in the command center the systems are all screwed...and we see vice guarding his section...lutecia comes into the area and he flashesback to a scene where he killed a kid before due to miss firing ~ vice starts to panic and shake...he is later shot down by lutecia!!!
4) lutecia has captured vivio...caro and erio soon flies in onto the situation and the spot vivio being taken away ~ erio flashes back to when he was taken from his original family ~ erio is indeed a clone from project F as the guys in suits say...
5) form 2!!! it looks the same...HAHAHA! erio jumpa off fried and charges in ~ he flies at lutecia but garyuu intercepts him...he is soon caught off guard by the numbers as with caro who falls into the sea ~
6) fate chan asks her attackers where Dr spaghetti is...they tell her that erio should have been captured by now as will she who is linked with project F ~ but they leave...
7) caro saves erio from drowning...
8) we see a lifeless zafira shamal and vice
9) now it is caro's turn to go berserk...she begins to summon red eyes ~ she was able to summon him and ZOMG what a sight to behold! :O red eyes fire at the drones and they all go boom!
10) Dr spaghetti relays his message to everyone saying that this is only the beginning...mid childa will fall!! cuts scenes show how the team are all trying their best to save themselves...manic laugther soon follows...
11) everyone is speechless at this carnage...
end...
You made a mistake in your summary.
III and VII were asking Fate not to say such sad things about Jail being a worst kind of criminal, since he is like a birthfather to Elio and Fate since the life they have is born through Project F which is linked to the Dr, which of course, Fate doesn't give a damn since she has Precia-mama bias and can't accept Jail-papa. They then give up trying to explain then, and leaves, saying they'll meet again, and hopefully a better conversation/explanation then, which leaves Fate angry.
Now, what I'm trying to crack is who's limited and not. And how much of a boost is Terminator Subaru from her regular B+~A- level at normal... why can't there be clear statistics to these kind of things? And looks like Signum will be Zest's future fight, if that exchange meant anything.
FlameSparkZ
2007-07-22, 13:58
Screenie Collage:
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1524/1185126397827pz7.th.jpg (http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1185126397827pz7.jpg)
Someone that they found wierd Zest off-unison being able to defeat Vita in Unison...but, he actually activated Full Drive (as seen in the screenshot).
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 14:06
Someone that they found wierd Zest off-unison being able to defeat Vita in Unison...but, he actually activated Full Drive (as seen in the screenshot).
Full Drive apparently strains his body badly...to the point Agito was furiously refusing to release unison. And it might be related somewhat, considering how his FD-strike seems to be a factor in causing Rein to go unconscious... Virus power?
And Agito seems to spazz at the sight of him using Full Drive (( which was her fault technically ))...she's really concerned, isn't she? :rolleyes:
Deathkillz
2007-07-22, 14:08
thoughts ~
absolutely epic! best ep so far coming from this series ;)
the carnage and destruction was well worth the wait imo ^.^
points i just loved was how everyone seemed so real...yep no one is safe and bubble wrapped in their own space (except for hayate and her crew) and both sides suffered damage ~ though the numbers suffered far less than the forwards and defenders...
i am quite annoyed though at the fact that vita was defeated in such a method ~ whereas she was using full power to destroy agito ~ zest intervened without unison and manages to crush vita'd eisen...WTH kind of plot hole is that! fine if zest was using full force as well but this time he wasnt even fused with agito! >.<
second was the treatment of ginga...she should have been shoved into a bigger case :( that tiny thing looked cramped >.< but as i said she was the most obvious one to be knocked out and taken away (though not dead yet she could be used as a subject by twisted Dr spaghetti) ~
strada's 2nd form..HAHAHAHAHA!!!! and you guys where all thinking that it was going to be something cool :p though i am disappointed i cant say i hate that much hope XD the male leads of this series get the shaft a lot of the times if you just look at ferret boy...so no cool gadget for erio kun ^.^
one thing i am surprised with was the power of each of the numbers...they were absolutely haxx!! especially eye patch loli though she did fail at the end against a berserk subaru...
preview wasnt anything special...just the aftermath ep is guess ~ but subaru will still be in shock and the team should be planning on bloody REVENGE!!
@ Nightengale ~ thanks for the correction ;) *changes*
octoberasian
2007-07-22, 14:10
I just realized:
It makes a lot of sense now why Ginga's and Subaru's weapons were so very similar to that to two of the members of the Numbers.
So, indeed, were once part of Scagliette's experiments, but something happen that caused those two to fight against Scagliette's Numbers.
Something happened... I just can't put my finger on it right now. Father part of the experiments, maybe?
Now... what if Scagliette gets around to finishing what he's intended to do with Ginga, would he turn Ginga against Subaru and the rest of Riot Force 6?
I have that eeries suspicion that might happen. I think another person had that same suspicion as well from the Ep. 16 thread.
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 14:13
thoughts ~
absolutely epic! best ep so far coming from this series ;)
the carnage and destruction was well worth the wait imo ^.^
points i just loved was how everyone seemed so real...yep no one is safe and bubble wrapped in their own space (except for hayate and her crew) and both sides suffered damage ~ though the numbers suffered far less than the forwards and defenders...
i am quite annoyed though at the fact that vita was defeated in such a method ~ whereas she was using full power to destroy agito ~ zest intervened without unison and manages to crush vita'd eisen...WTH kind of plot hole is that! fine if zest was using full force as well but this time he wasnt even fused with agito! >.<
second was the treatment of ginga...she should have been shoved into a bigger case :( that tiny thing looked cramped >.< but as i said she was the most obvious one to be knocked out and taken away (though not dead yet she could be used as a subject by twisted Dr spaghetti) ~
strada's 2nd form..HAHAHAHAHA!!!! and you guys where all thinking that it was going to be something cool :p though i am disappointed i cant say i hate that much hope XD the male leads of this series get the shaft a lot of the times if you just look at ferret boy...so no cool gadget for erio kun ^.^
one thing i am surprised with was the power of each of the numbers...they were absolutely haxx!! especially eye patch loli though she did fail at the end against a berserk subaru...
preview wasnt anything special...just the aftermath ep is guess ~ but subaru will still be in shock and the team should be planning on bloody REVENGE!!
@ Nightengale ~ thanks for the correction ;) *changes*
And you made ANOTHER mistake. Zest insisted Agito release fusion as he was going to end in with one strike via Full Drive, but Agito went nonononono and refused, since FD apparently strains his body badly. When Zest was about to retreat, Agito released unison to attack Vita with the fireball, but Zest quickly saved her with Full Drive... and made Agito really really shocked that Zest used it to save her.
FlameSparkZ
2007-07-22, 14:17
I just realized:
It makes a lot of sense now why Ginga's and Subaru's weapons were so very similar to that to two of the members of the Numbers.
So, indeed, were once part of Scagliette's experiments, but something happen that caused those two to fight against Scagliette's Numbers.
Something happened... I just can't put my finger on it right now. Father part of the experiments, maybe?
Now... what if Scagliette gets around to finishing what he's intended to do with Ginga, would he turn Ginga against Subaru and the rest of Riot Force 6?
I have that eeries suspicion that might happen. I think another person had that same suspicion as well from the Ep. 16 thread.
I'd say that Subaru and Ginga's Mother saved them from the labs...
And yeah, I can see that hapening, a brainwashed Ginga fighting against the Forwards...or just Subaru :D
The awesome moments that made major impressions on me
Ok, I was like watching the episode with a more or less calm face ,then ...
- Erio and Subaru vs Numbers. BAM , DESTRUCTIVE Power. Hell Yes! It is getting Exciting!!!! But then...
- Ginga :upset::upset:
- I felt kind of sad at how Subaru tried her best, went berserk to get Gin-nee back and all for nothing. And damn that Number with dive through everything ability who saved one-eyed one . That must have been mortifying for Subaru.
- And wait. Subaru is a cyborg? :twitch: No, I never suspected that .
- Zafira , Shamal... :upset::upset:
- Volcaire is quite intimidating so to say. :)
There are actually more scenes that are worth noting , but ... heck, the whole (almost literally) episode , like every minute of it was exciting\shocking and made me want to jump off my chair.
And for some reason I start to like Agito more and more. :)
Actually I had doubts if Strikers could redeem itself (although hoped for it at the same time :p) after that many training :heh: episodes . Well, of course there were some action episodes inbetween but their momentum was instantly killed off by slow-paced happy ones. My expectations were relatively low despite all the possible hype from community (or maybe there wasn't . Haven't paid much attention at the discussions on this forum) and previous set-up episode.
Well, forget about it. For me this episode was on the same awesome level (if not above) as this week's Gurren Laggan one. :D Really wish for the next Sunday (or Monday?) to come right now. :heh:
and made Agito really really shocked that Zest used it to save her.
Shocked enough that she's unconscious?
i have to say this was an awesome episode, sept for the part where the numbers took down my poor ginga ! noooo but aside from that wow what an awesome ep
Let me say this once again; Holy. Shit.
This episode IS action, and visual alone is enough to understand 90% out of this episode.
Oh, and yes, I've noticed that the magazine preview I provided a while back was slightly off in this ep... well, not much but still.
- Uno takes the honor of prologue in this ep, where she explains that they've put 11 out of all 12 Numbers in this mission.
Their primary objective is to "bloodlessly" conquer GC and RF6, capture "Sei-Oh no Utsuwa", and secondary objective is to capture Type-0.
- EP starts with duel of two Velka Knights in the sky.
Vita and Rein notices that the opponent's unison-attack timing is slightly off, which suggests that Zest and Agito are not so compatible.
Still, they're covering that up with sheer skill and experience, which is making them very tough opponent.
Zest then suggest Agito to stop their unison, then insists to use his drive's Full Drive to finish Vita in one hit.
Agito objects his suggestion that using Full Drive will shorten his life, which is unacceptable for her no matter what.
- Forwards fighting against Uendi and Nove, where Forwards are quite holding on their own.
Nove uses her own Wing Road which is yellow in color, and Uendi uses her... "thing" like a beam-launcher.
Assisted by Caro's boosting magic, Teana makes some hell amount of Fake Sillouettes that are effective even against Sentou Kijin, which suprises both of opponents.
As Erio (Thunder Rage!) and Subaru gives them a good punch to make enough distraction, Forwards decides to retreat to join up with Aces.
After Forwards went out of scene, Cinque calls Uendi and Nove that she is engaging with another Type-0, one that is "First", and need assistance.
On the screen with Cinque is... most expectedly, Ginga.
- Schach catches up with N&F, where she explains that people in the main-room has successfully forced the door open.
According to her, Hayate, Carim and Signum are remaining in main-room and explaining about attackers to security team.
Then, Forwards join up with three, and gives them their anticipated devices back.
However, Subaru notices that communication to Ginga went out and as Fate calls to Long-Arch HQ, she finds out that RF6 base is also under attack and is failing.
Responding to the situation, Nanoha splits the team; Stars are to secure the safety of Ginga and mop-up of enemy, and Lightnings are to fall back to RF6 base.
- The RF6 base in fire, with exausted Shamal and Zafira standing as final line of defence...
Otto praises them for keeping them at bey with only 2, but it's closing to end; s/he uses his/her IS "Ray Storm" to finish off the structure, and Dido smacks Zafira down to ground with her "Twin Blades".
Then Otto proceeds to finish them off... Hayate gets a gut feeling of them... Oh no, can't they be...
- Vice! :D
- On the sky, Lightnings encounter Tre and Sette; Fate orders her children to leave her behind and head to RF6.
Caro hesitates, but Erio convinces her that they need Fried to stay in sky and thus useless for aereal combat.
Fate activates Zamber Form and confronts two Numbers...
- Back to fighting of Vita and Zest, Zest detects that several over S are starting their action and GC's defence is going back to life.
As Signum is closing in to their position, Zest thinks it's time to retreat but Agito is so desperate to give a one blow to Rein.
Vita catches Agito's action and try to intercept it, but Zest goes Full Drive and intercepts Vita before that.
With Graf Eizen crashed miserably, Vita falls to ground, defeated...
Well... Signum is too much of wage-snatch, aint it :heh:
- Subaru rushes toward Ginga's posision, she's even outspeeding Nanoha by far thanks to the enviroment of indoor.
- Subaru reaches where Ginga is... only to find out that 3 Numbers are about to pack blood-stained and unconcious Ginga into container.
Subaru snaps out, her eyes turn yellow... like those of Numbers.
B Part:- Yelling them to give her sister back, Subaru charges toward Nove, completely drown in rage.
As both crashes into wall from their contact, Nove analyzes that Subaru's Inherent Skill is destruction-on-contact type.
Cinque tells her little sisters to run with Ginga, and she will take her alone until Sei arrives to extract her.
Uendi is already activating her IS "Aerial Rave", but Nove is hesitating to leave Cinque alone... Cinque assures her that she can attack without making contact.
- With Sentou Kijin's circle pattern under her, Subaru madly charges against Cinque, who's only berely managing to defend her attack.
She's even crashing her fists and MC on her feet, but that doesn't matter to her... she uses her IS again, which finally penetrates Cinque's defence.
However, Cinque's desperate attack damaged Subaru enough to stop her movement... showing inside her left arm was a sparkling mechanical inside...
As Cinque was about to giving up, Sei finally reaches place and extracts her.
Left alone, Subaru collapses into ground, her eyes turning back to normal... and Mach Calibur stops her function due to damage.
Then, Nanoha and Teana finally reach the place... well, isn't that a bit too slow? :heh:
- Back to RF6, Lucino sees off the remaining system of the base is dying...
Vice was still holding his own, but with Lutecia's appearance, he remembers his past; In one of hostage incident, he misfired and hit the hostage in eye... who was a little girl.
With trauma of recollection, he stopped dead, trembling... that was more than enough time for Lutecia to blow him into wall.
- On top of flaming RF6 base, Uno contacts Lutecia and thanks her for retrieving Vivio.
Uno offers her an extraction but Lutecia refuses her offer, insisting to fly on a Type-2 Drone until they reach teleportable distance.
- On Fried, Erio and Caro are about to reach RF6 base... then they find Lutecia's taking Vivio away.
Erio's flashback kicks in;
Mondials had a son, Erio Mondial, who died from sickness.
Being apparently rich family, Mondials somehow had contact to someone with Project F technology... thus, they got their son revived.
However, that didn't go unnoticed and some organization came to take him away...
I don't want to believe they were TSAB, but they effectively shut Mondials up by merely mentining about record of their son's death and Project F, so they definitely got law on their back... or at least I think they're.
- Erio activates Strada's Mode 2, which effectively turns itself into chunk of thrusters to fly.
He literrally rockets toward Lutecia, but eventually knocked down by Dido, and Caro got bound by Otto and drops.
- Fate desperately questions her opponent where the hell Scaglietti is, and suprisingly, Tre and Sette responds with politeness in their tone.
They answer that if Fate is willing to join them, they'll tell her the whereabouts immediately.
Fate retorts them that he's unforgivable criminal, which they responds that please don't say such a sad thing, for it was Scaglietti himself that made the baseline of Project F, he's like a father to both Fate and Erio.
Fate STFU them, so they decides to take a leave for this time... at last moment, Tre tells Fate that as Fate already noticed, she can not win against them next time.
- Back to RF6, Uno is announcing via Type-3 Drone that Drones are going to completely destroying the structure in 5 minutes, with emphasising that they're not intending to target human in any way, and suggest any remaining personnel to leave the place immedietly.
Caro, in fear of losing place where she whole-heartedly called "home", summons Voltair and goes rampage.
- Back to GC's main room, Scaglietti is having a speech against these who presented at Presentation...
He tells them that today's attack was a wrath from these who tried to improve technology in right direction, but considered illigal and shafted by TSAB under the name of law-keeping and LL restriction.
Then he continues that he, as a human, still loves human and their life, so that they tried today's attack to be as blood-less and humane as possible.
Then he tells them that he proved the power and technology he has, and he is prepared to make special offer for these who interested in it and waiting for contact.
- Staring at collapsing tower on fire, Carim feebly says that the prophecy became real...
However, Hayate tells herself that RF6 is not died yet, and swears for revenge.
- So... where in the world our Nanoha was in all these critical times? :heh:
Preview:- Titled "Return of the Wing", Teana and Erio swears their determination to stand up again.
In one short cut I saw someone appears to be Auris pointing finger to Hayate... maybe interrogation in process?
Deathkillz
2007-07-22, 14:21
And you made ANOTHER mistake. Zest insisted Agito release fusion as he was going to end in with one strike via Full Drive, but Agito went nonononono and refused, since FD apparently strains his body badly. When Zest was about to retreat, Agito released unison to attack Vita with the fireball, but Zest quickly saved her with Full Drive... and made Agito really really shocked that Zest used it to save her.
well though that attack really didnt seem all that special :heh: and yet vita was utterly crushed...interesting that he has to be out of unison to be able to use it though :o
octoberasian
2007-07-22, 14:26
I'd say that Subaru and Ginga's Mother saved them from the labs...
And yeah, I can see that hapening, a brainwashed Ginga fighting against the Forwards...or just Subaru :D
If that indeed did happen, and it might actually come true, then we probably won't see it until Ep. 22 to 25 maybe. ^^;
That would be one epic and heartbreaking battle to see. Though I don't really want it to happen, it feels like it's leading up to that point.
I don't understand why lutecia help to take Vivio, she saved agito from experiment but she is ok with vivio being 'cyborgized" !?
Also, caro rampage but only on drones ? >.>
It's hard to wait the raw :D
(ho and sorry for my poor english, i'm french)
If that indeed did happen, and it might actually come true, then we probably won't see it until Ep. 22 to 25 maybe. ^^;
If that did happen I would be excited to watch the fight scenes.
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 14:31
well though that attack really didnt seem all that special :heh: and yet vita was utterly crushed...interesting that he has to be out of unison to be able to use it though :o
Well... Rein seems to be in a peculiar condition after Vita got FDed... Maybe it's related somehow, like a virus attack, or a mental attack which Rein took the mental damage instead. Since Zest is confident in ending it in one hit, it must have some sort of specialty, since it's also a double-edged attack.
Maybe it's not so much of a non-unison attack, but more of a "Agito will also suffer the negative-effects together" kind of thing. Both of them are tsunderes in a way after all. :heh:
I don't understand why lutecia help to take Vivio, she saved agito from experiment but she is ok with vivio being 'cyborgized" !?
Lutecia seems to like/trust Spaghetti.
Well... Rein seems to be in a peculiar condition after Vita got FDed... Maybe it's related somehow, like a virus attack, or a mental attack which Rein took the mental damage instead. Since Zest is confident in ending it in one hit, it must have some sort of specialty, since it's also a double-edged attack.Maybe Rein simply got knocked out by force, seeing that in previous episode, Agito was seen to be taken some damage even though she was supposed to be unisoned with Zest when Vita smashed them.
Vita is... well, let's say, "made" to be front combatant and trained too, but Rein's not really one to take heavy hit after all.
Deathkillz
2007-07-22, 14:41
Well... Rein seems to be in a peculiar condition after Vita got FDed... Maybe it's related somehow, like a virus attack, or a mental attack which Rein took the mental damage instead. Since Zest is confident in ending it in one hit, it must have some sort of specialty, since it's also a double-edged attack.
Maybe it's not so much of a non-unison attack, but more of a "Agito will also suffer the negative-effects together" kind of thing. Both of them are tsunderes in a way after all. :heh:
And who was the 2nd narrator in the preview anyway? I noticed Hayate's voice... I think, and another one... sound familiar somehow... Yuuno?
i can see the "only affect unison devices" label already XD but seriously im more inclined to think of it as a heavy burst damage in a split second kinda thing...i would say that rein fell unconcious because she effectively shielded vita from the full burst (we should have heard a loud boom i guess :p) ~ but rein wasnt enough to take all the impact so eisen when bust...
agito going berserk and fainting was unexpected...but when you say its a double edge type attack zest seemed to be fine and dandy to me :heh: except IF agito took the damage for him instead...id say that the negative energy only affects unison type beings if it wasnt relying on overwhelming power
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 14:45
I don't understand why lutecia help to take Vivio, she saved agito from experiment but she is ok with vivio being 'cyborgized" !?
From what I understand, we don't know what Jail is planning to do with Vivio yet...
("A Jail is fine too...")
And who was the 2nd narrator in the preview anyway? I noticed Hayate's voice... I think, and another one... sound familiar somehow... Yuuno?
Sounds like him but a little heavier than usual.
I don't understand why lutecia help to take Vivio, she saved agito from experiment but she is ok with vivio being 'cyborgized" !?
Also, caro rampage but only on drones ? >.>
Most probably it has something to do with the relics... the numbers creation was related to em including Vivio.Also Vivio is not being cyborgized..she is not a human in the 1st place.
Caro only hitting the drones because they are going to destroy the buildings and they were all that left, all the numbers and Lutecia already gone.
agito going berserk and fainting was unexpected...but when you say its a double edge type attack zest seemed to be fine and dandy to me except IF agito took the damage for him instead...id say that the negative energy only affects unison type beings if it wasnt relying on overwhelming power
It has something to do with his body, might be some kind of long term effect.That's why Agito is being fussy about Zest using it.
Edit:Thisguy summary said that it shorten his life
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 14:51
Sounds like him but a little heavier than usual.
Nah, I rewatched and it's Teana/Elio.
Despite sorting all 11 Numbers bar Uno herself... No. II is conveniently missing.
And since Zest mentioned the movements of several over S mages, it means all limiters were off... Weird really. What's with the huge gap between III/VII, VIII, XII, and IX, XI then, if III and VII can match S+ Fate while IX barely breaking even against Powered Subaru? One would think the combat Numbers would be more balanced overall...whatever.
Deathkillz
2007-07-22, 15:01
^ balanced is unlikely...there would be some stronger than others even if the order of birth doesnt mean much :3
It has something to do with his body, might be some kind of long term effect.That's why Agito is being fussy about Zest using it.
Edit:Thisguy summary said that it shorten his life
ah brain poisoning :heh: perhaps it kills off a portion of his brain O.O
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 15:08
Nah, I rewatched and it's Teana/Elio.
That makes sense... Seeing as how they'll be the ones promising themselves to be stronger.
Despite sorting all 11 Numbers bar Uno herself... No. II is conveniently missing.
And since Zest mentioned the movements of several over S mages, it means all limiters were off... Weird really. What's with the huge gap between III/VII, VIII, XII, and IX, XI then, if III and VII can match S+ Fate while IX barely breaking even against Powered Subaru? One would think the combat Numbers would be more balanced overall...whatever.
What was number II's speciality again?
"Several over S mage"... Does that includes Lindy and Carim? And we don't know Schach rank yet as well...
What was number II's speciality again?We don't know yet.
As well as Uno mentions that they had all Numbers in this mission but one... they're still hiding II under secret.
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 15:12
We don't know yet.
As well as Uno mentions that they had all Numbers in this mission but one... they're still hiding II under secret.
Isn't but one herself? During the opening monologue, she did refer herself as Number First, Uno... though I'm not sure if it included her in the count.
Despite sorting all 11 Numbers bar Uno herself... No. II is conveniently missing.
Perhaps no. II has been there with TSAB all along, they just never show which one yet.
And since Zest mentioned the movements of several over S mages, it means all limiters were off... Weird really. What's with the huge gap between III/VII, VIII, XII, and IX, XI then, if III and VII can match S+ Fate while IX barely breaking even against Powered Subaru? One would think the combat Numbers would be more balanced overall...whatever.
It might also had to do with their opponent.
No.VII herself might not be a match against Fate but paired with III who are suited for Fate (speed), they could be better.Perhaps Nueve and Uendi just got unlucky opponents (they never expect the mass Kage bushin :heh:)
Powered Subaru rank might be higher than IX and V.Also Zafira and Shamal(very defensive type) can be considered the weakest among the wolkentier group plus they were facing dozens of drones in addition to the 2 numbers.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 15:18
Lol! Double meaning :heh:
"But one" could either refer to her (She is 'one' after all), or the more obvious meaning of, well you know...
FlareKnight
2007-07-22, 15:29
Yeah makes sense Teana and Erio would be looking to get stronger after this. Teana couldn't do anything to help Subaru this time. Seeing her partner getting into such a state and suffering a serious loss would lead to that kind've feeling. Same for Erio who tried as hard as he could to prevent Vivio from being taken from her 'family'. Though charging in against 2 numbers, Lutecia, and Garyuu there wasn't much hope of success there.
Yeah seems like a last resort for Zest. If it does shorten his life or at the very least have some really negative side-effects you can understand Agito not wanting him to use it. Wonder though who he'll be up against next time? Vita going in for revenge after the damage to Eisen? Or Signum who just missed out on the fighting will get a shot?
Key Board
2007-07-22, 16:10
Signum: what the hell? The fight is over just as I arrive?... AGAIN?
I am curious about Subaru, though. Just how much did the Aces know about this? Hayate probably knew about this, but does Fate and the others know?
I am curious about Subaru, though. Just how much did the Aces know about this? Hayate probably knew about this, but does Fate and the others know?
With saw ginga and subaru being examinated by the girl who repair/checkup devices so maybe these 3 knew too
An Hero in Disguise
2007-07-22, 17:02
Awesome episode.
- Back to GC's main room, Scaglietti is having a speech against these who presented at Presentation...
He tells them that today's attack was a wrath from these who tried to improve technology in right direction, but considered illigal and shafted by TSAB under the name of law-keeping and LL restriction.
Then he continues that he, as a human, still loves human and their life, so that they tried today's attack to be as blood-less and humane as possible.
Then he tells them that he proved the power and technology he has, and he is prepared to make special offer for these who interested in it and waiting for contact.
I knew it! Doc strives for the prosperity of humanity! Fighting against those who hinder its rightful development!
Other remarkable moments:
- Unison devices being able to take the damage directed at the master would be the thing I'd expect, not 100% sure yet but looks like it;
- outcome for Ginga was expected, unlike the things about Subaru; I'm impressed, now awaiting the sisters' fight;
- poor Zafira kind of shafted again, have we ever seen his human form in StrikerS? I guess in a flashback only; Vice almost succeeded in playing GARcher instead;
- was there no limiter on Fate during her fight? seriously disappointed in Zamber form in such case;
- Strada mode 2 fails;
- Voltaire wins;
- Scaglietti appears to have the goals I've guessed once half-jokingly, lol;
- Nanoha is a slacker;
- overall the episode was great but we still saw almost no action from the Aces, and most probably won't be seeing much in the next one, meh
Deathkillz
2007-07-22, 17:36
- was there no limiter on Fate during her fight? seriously disappointed in Zamber form in such case;
- Strada mode 2 fails;
let me just ring that point out again on my mic...strada fails!! and as the master so does erio!! ;)
and i cant blame fate chan (unsure where they said that she had her limiter off) ~ she didnt recieve any screen time justice with all the attention pointing towards subaru's breakdown :sad:
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 18:02
let me just ring that point out again on my mic...strada fails!! and as the master so does erio!! ;)
Remember, Strada was apparently the best/coolest/complicating/strongest devices amongs the 4 of them, that means if it fails, the rest of them fail BAD :D
and i cant blame fate chan (unsure where they said that she had her limiter off) ~ she didnt recieve any screen time justice with all the attention pointing towards subaru's breakdown :sad:
Excuses.
Awesome episode.
I knew it! Doc strives for the prosperity of humanity! Fighting against those who hinder its rightful development!
Bah, excuses. Remember in SEED Destiny? He was also fighting for humanity.
With enough reasoning, anyone could be fighting for humanity, Half-Life 2 anyone?
An Hero in Disguise
2007-07-22, 18:06
and i cant blame fate chan (unsure where they said that she had her limiter off) ~ she didnt recieve any screen time justice with all the attention pointing towards subaru's breakdown :sad:
Well, I'm not sure if there was anything mentioned clearly about the limiters, so I'm speculating at this moment. And judging from Subaru's fight it's obvious that the victory should go to the one with COURAGE :D:D:D, so Fate may need a bit more motivation to go all out, at that time she didn't even see most of the Numbers' deeds.
Bah, excuses. Remember in SEED Destiny? He was also fighting for humanity.
With enough reasoning, anyone could be fighting for humanity, Half-Life 2 anyone?
I'm just overjoyed at the fact I once mentioned that Doc was almost exactly like that, and then it was considered unlikely at the very least. But now it seems like truth :D Even the thing that his Drones are not harming innocent people :rolleyes:
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 18:19
I'm just overjoyed at the fact I once mentioned that Doc was almost exactly like that, and then it was considered unlikely at the very least. But now it seems like truth :D Even the thing that his Drones are not harming innocent people :rolleyes:
Bad guys can't really go around saying that their bad right? :p
But you do know that if his drones weren't set to kill (Which I doubt), there would be more chance that the cast size wouldn't change?
Key Board
2007-07-22, 18:20
Eh.. I liked Strada's 2nd mode
it would be even better if Elio rides on it like a rocket witch broom, though
An Hero in Disguise
2007-07-22, 18:30
Bad guys can't really go around saying that their bad right? :p
But you do know that if his drones weren't set to kill (Which I doubt), there would be more chance that the cast size wouldn't change?
Maybe TSAB is actually bad :rolleyes:
Drones won't kill innocents but reply to the violence accordingly, that's it :D BTW when Shamal and Zafira were shot I almost believed that there's justice in the world after all :innocent::innocent: And Hayate's reaction was ensuring :rolleyes: But then they had to ruin my perfect mood :frustrated: Almost made me rate the episode 9 instead of 10.
FlareKnight
2007-07-22, 18:56
Man Erio, Shamal, and Zafira what did those guys do to offend you?
Are we actually taking propaganda at face value? Well of course he's not going to jump out saying he's a bad guy, wouldn't exactly help himself that way would he? All this ended up being was a dangerous, and expensive commercial. While also taking the time to kidnap Vivio and Ginga....all for the sake of humanity of course :eyespin:
Can't really say anything bad about how Fate did anyways. Considering we didn't see her fight. Will probably get some serious fighting though whenever they are able to put back together a rescue mission.
Deathkillz
2007-07-22, 18:59
Remember, Strada was apparently the best/coolest/complicating/strongest devices amongs the 4 of them, that means if it fails, the rest of them fail BAD :D
biggest bunch of lies ive ever heard ~ subaru has the coolest device hands down :rolleyes:
Maybe TSAB is actually bad :rolleyes:
Drones won't kill innocents but reply to the violence accordingly, that's it :D BTW when Shamal and Zafira were shot I almost believed that there's justice in the world after all :innocent::innocent: And Hayate's reaction was ensuring :rolleyes: But then they had to ruin my perfect mood :frustrated: Almost made me rate the episode 9 instead of 10.
yea i know what you mean...i was all up for a funeral the next day considering hayate's "ZOMG i cant feel their life signals anymore!" :O reaction...*sigh*
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 19:07
biggest bunch of lies ive ever heard ~ subaru has the coolest device hands down :rolleyes:
A river in Egypt... A river in Egypt... :p
- Strada mode 2 fails
No. Strada mode 2 worked fine. But Elio just was against too many strong people.
An Hero in Disguise
2007-07-22, 19:15
Man Erio, Shamal, and Zafira what did those guys do to offend you?
Nothing personal against them, it was just a perfect moment for some members of the cast to go for good (it's unlikely to see something decent performed by Shamal or Zafira in future episodes anyway), but they missed the opportunity :upset:
Are we actually taking propaganda at face value? Well of course he's not going to jump out saying he's a bad guy, wouldn't exactly help himself that way would he? All this ended up being was a dangerous, and expensive commercial. While also taking the time to kidnap Vivio and Ginga....all for the sake of humanity of course :eyespin:
At the same time it can't be said for sure that Scaglietti doesn't actually believe in what he's said.
Can't really say anything bad about how Fate did anyways. Considering we didn't see her fight. Will probably get some serious fighting though whenever they are able to put back together a rescue mission.
IF there was no limiter and Fate was full S+ and with Zamber mode seeing that the Numbers weren't having much trouble defending against her attacks would either mean that they're that good or that she performed bad. Future will show what was really the case.
No. Strada mode 2 worked fine. But Elio just was against too many strong people.
I rather meant looks and abilities than general outcome of the fight.
Avatar_notADV
2007-07-22, 19:23
Definitely the jobber episode. Bad guys are extremely bad and mean and scary, check. Forwards and knights can't one-on-one the best the other team has to throw at them, check. But yeah, they basically wrote a scenario where Nanoha and Fate and Hayate wouldn't be in position to do anything useful, and even then it was pretty bloody on both sides.
Doing it this way allows the writers to give the impression that the Numbers are actually a potent fighting force without ever coming out and saying "this one is better than Nanoha"; that way, the viewer can't complain about inconsistency when angry mama bear punches out Numbers like they're made of plywood in later episodes.
But yeah, there's still two big questions. First, who knew about Subaru? We can assume that her dad knew (I wouldn't put "adopt the two orphan cyborg girls" past 'im, though Ginga does look an awful lot like her mom). We can assume that anyone who got a really good scan of either knew, so the weapons tech of the 108th knew, and so (presumably) would Shamal, as the RF6 doctor. From that we can posit that Hayate knew.
Did Nanoha know? If so, we can guess that Subaru was recruited precisely because she looked harmless but was actually a powerful combat cyborg - exactly the sort of "stealth strength" that they were looking for. But this would mean that either Tea has some sort of hidden super thingy (unlikely) or that she was recruited simply because she was already Subaru's partner; the latter would deal another blow to her self-image. "What, I'm just the goldfish poop?"
Also, where does the plot GO from here? Assuming that the whole sub-plot with the ground forces isn't a big head-fake, well, it's a bit early to go burning down the house with them; I predict that they're going to do something with the interservice rivalry they keep talking up, so something like "Hayate's unit getting disbanded, going rogue, jacking the Asura out of the scrap heap, and going after Vivio" isn't out of the question.
About Strada mode 2:
I rather meant looks and abilities than general outcome of the fight.
We didn't have time to see much of its abilities, besides flying.
First, who knew about Subaru?
Good question, indeed. I'd especially like to know two things:
- did Subaru know?
- did the authors of the show know, when they wrote the first few episodes? Was it planned at all?
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 19:38
IF there was no limiter and Fate was full S+ and with Zamber mode seeing that the Numbers weren't having much trouble defending against her attacks would either mean that they're that good or that she performed bad. Future will show what was really the case.
Neither seems all that serious, that Fate's clearly more agitated. The Numbers had the no-casualty mission objective going for them, and they clearly preferred if Fate was willing to join them and become Jail's harem member #13, the pseudo-daughter archetype.
Fate on the other hand, wanted to inquiry on Scaglietti's whereabouts, so well... but the last words of the Numbers does give less edge to Fate, since they're still hoping to talk sense into her next time, and that "you know you can't win next time" foreshadowing...
As for Scaglietti... Well, it was both advertising, sponsor showcase alongside personal motives (( Material/Type-0 ))... There's probably a bunch of bull in his words as is every advertisement. At least it can be said that thus far, he doesn't seem to treat his subjects that badly. The Numbers (( even Tre )) seems to have a degree of attachment to him, looking sad when Fate bullshited Jail, and well... Lutecia's a Jail Is Fine Too. And at least he wasn't the evil sucker involved with Agito/Elio.
Let's see if he intends to dissect Vivio or give her candies and sweets before dissecting her. And what he intends to do with Ginga too, though I think mind-control seems to be the most famous line of thought (( though I'd prefer if Ginga was genuinely converted over, but alas... highly doubtful. ))
LoweGear
2007-07-22, 19:42
IKARE!!!! HAGANE NO CYBORG!!!!!
Sorry, had to do that :heh:
On Subaru and the first episodes...
Certainly it's always seemed wierd to me that Subaru could punch her way through Gadget Drone armor. Even a bodybuilder can't do that, and even with Revolver Knuckle the drone's AMF can nullify any enhancement on Subaru's punches, especially at close range, and at speeds slower than attacks like Scwhalbe Fliegen. Kinda found it hard to swallow that Subaru was just that strong.
Subaru being a cyborg explains all of her Gadget Drone destruction scenes, since her strength comes from her IS.
Edit:
And with all her blatant mecha references from SRW to GaoGaiGar, I think the producers knew what they were doing. :D
Let's see if he intends to dissect Vivio
I think he won't need to do that. Vivio is already a project-F-enhanced mage.
An Hero in Disguise
2007-07-22, 19:50
And what he intends to do with Ginga too, though I think mind-control seems to be the most famous line of thought (( though I'd prefer if Ginga was genuinely converted over, but alas... highly doubtful. ))
If Doc is really serious in believing to work for the good of humanity the last option isn't completely unlikely.
Certainly it's always seemed wierd to me that Subaru could punch her way through Gadget Drone armor. Even a bodybuilder can't do that, and even with Revolver Knuckle the drone's AMF can nullify any enhancement on Subaru's punches, especially at close range
Teana found a way to get past the AMF, about ten minutes after seeing one for the first time (in episode 3). Can't Subaru have done the same?
Kinda found it hard to swallow that Subaru was just that strong.
Teana is stronger: she can throw Subaru with merely a finger!
If Doc is really serious in believing to work for the good of humanity the last option isn't completely unlikely.
Come on, with an evil laugh like that, how can anyone believe him?
LoweGear
2007-07-22, 20:04
Teana found a way to get past the AMF, about ten minutes after seeing one for the first time (in episode 3). Can't Subaru have done the same?
Using a AA rank spell that is known to break through AMF. Whereas Subaru merely had to smash Drones with her fist, which would make using an Anti-AMF spell redundant.
Teana is stronger: she can throw Subaru with merely a finger!
:heh::heh::heh:
An Hero in Disguise
2007-07-22, 20:04
Come on, with an evil laugh like that, how can anyone believe him?
I believe him. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
My point was actually whether he believes in it himself or not.
Holy fucking awesome.
http://blog.seiha.org/?p=215
I'm in the process of uploading the Subaru part and ripping out the Erio/Caro part at the end. I'll post those once they're up.
Certainly it's always seemed wierd to me that Subaru could punch her way through Gadget Drone armor. Even a bodybuilder can't do that, and even with Revolver Knuckle the drone's AMF can nullify any enhancement on Subaru's punches, especially at close range, and at speeds slower than attacks like Scwhalbe Fliegen. Kinda found it hard to swallow that Subaru was just that strong.
If you're right, I can answer Avatar_notADV's question: since nobody was surprised seeing what Subaru can do, everyone at Division 6 knew about her being a cyborg.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 20:14
Nothing personal against them, it was just a perfect moment for some members of the cast to go for good (it's unlikely to see something decent performed by Shamal or Zafira in future episodes anyway), but they missed the opportunity :upset:
Strangly, I agree with you on this. Using the excuse of "They aren't doing anything anyway." But looking at Zafira, I'm sure he's out-of-action for the rest of the series... Okay, maybe not that bad but you know what I mean!
At the same time it can't be said for sure that Scaglietti doesn't actually believe in what he's said.
Man, you're really playing this all the way huh? :heh:
I rather meant looks and abilities than general outcome of the fight.
Well, if what I head was true, he was out-number-ed :D :heh:
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 20:20
Strangly, I agree with you on this. Using the excuse of "They aren't doing anything anyway." But looking at Zafira, I'm sure he's out-of-action for the rest of the series... Okay, maybe not that bad but you know what I mean!
Well, if what I head was true, he was out-number-ed :D :heh:
Meh, you know the bloodless-conquer was just an excuse for the Numbers to not deal finishing blows to enemies they've beaten and sparing non-mages who can barely hold cover. To be honest, I really felt like they should've at least killed Griffith and co...
Jedi Ninja >> Knight-wannabe. :rolleyes:
Subaru... Berserker Mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7OLJ5kfruw
serenade_beta
2007-07-22, 20:29
Come on, with an evil laugh like that, how can anyone believe him?
Well, I was laughing with him. :D
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Great episode, I saw heaven.
Can someone list the new numbers? I couldn't hear some of their IS skills. One was like "Twin Blade". Also, one of the numbers was a "boku" female?
To be honest, I really felt like they should've at least killed Griffith and co...
Sigh... Why the hell do people want half of the cast to be murdered? :mad:
I know, the cast is huge, but does that really hamper the show?
Remember, this is Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha. People who are to be dead, are dead before the show starts. The only two exceptions I know of are:
- Precia, who (probably) killed herself;
- Reinforce, who asked to be killed.
And the Erio/Caro part from near the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCOsosvzY2E
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 20:34
Sigh... Why the hell do people want half of the cast to be murdered? :mad:
I know, the cast is huge, but does that really hamper the show?
Remember, this is Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha. People who are to be dead, are dead before the show starts. The only two exceptions I know of are:
- Precia, who (probably) killed herself;
- Reinforce, who asked to be killed.
Meh, I'm always a little irked every time bad guys spare defeated good guys and not deal the final blow. Granted, Jail asked for it, and for a semi-decent reason (( if only for image-sake )), but still... sigh.
Can someone list the new numbers? I couldn't hear some of their IS skills. One was like "Twin Blade". Also, one of the numbers was a "boku" female?
Number VIII, Otto is the boku. Looks like a male-type from the voice and the pants, but we've seen worse traps in anime. His IS is Ray Storm.
The flash-move girl with him is, Dido, Number XII. IS = Twin Blades.
That's the only new Numbers in Episode 17. Uno's IS is still unknown, and we still don't know jack about Number II, Due.
and we still don't know jack about Number II, Due.
I've read somewhere (here?) that she might be Regius' assistant.
That would be fitting: Uno as Bad Guy #1's assistant, Due as Bad Guy #2's assistant.
If Doc is really serious in believing to work for the good of humanity the last option isn't completely unlikely.
He could tell how She and Subaru were made test subjects by their own father and how he was forced to work on the project and lie about how he is doing this to avenge those who were victims to TSAB's follying with human nature and how they became cyborgs unknowingly (And Ginga is somehow forced to suck this down wherever she likes it or not)
Meh, I'm always a little irked every time bad guys spare defeated good guys and not deal the final blow. Granted, Jail asked for it, and for a semi-decent reason (( if only for image-sake )), but still... sigh.
Number VIII, Otto is the boku. Looks like a male-type from the voice and the pants, but we've seen worse traps in anime. His IS is Ray Storm.
The flash-move girl with him is, Dido, Number XII. IS = Twin Blades.
That's the only new Numbers in Episode 17. Uno's IS is still unknown, and we still don't know jack about Number II, Due.
It seems like Seven and twelve are almost like a twin in terms of looks and fighting style (Uses blades and has long wavy hair)
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 20:58
Meh, you know the bloodless-conquer was just an excuse for the Numbers to not deal finishing blows to enemies they've beaten and sparing non-mages who can barely hold cover. To be honest, I really felt like they should've at least killed Griffith and co...
Jedi Ninja >> Knight-wannabe. :rolleyes:
No point killing them, they are too easily replaced, THEN we'll be treated to MORE new characters...
Sigh... Why the hell do people want half of the cast to be murdered? :mad:
I know, the cast is huge, but does that really hamper the show?
In terms of plot? Maybe not so much, but we already have one too many characters being nerf for space, and one too many characters who aren't doing anything. So character-wise, it's not a very good thing.
Remember, this is Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha. People who are to be dead, are dead before the show starts. The only two exceptions I know of are:
- Precia, who (probably) killed herself;
- Reinforce, who asked to be killed.
Yes, but those were considered small scaled conflicts, low Causalities are understandable.
And the short fight from the start...
About the only battle Riot-6 won. Go Tea! :-P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z9EE-tveAA
RandomGuy
2007-07-22, 21:06
and why is zafira still in dog form when he is injured T.T I always thought the human form is the temporary one, considering they were created based on animals and return to that form once the master died or too weak(just like the twins).
Except Zafira isn't a familiar. He's one of the four Guardian Knights created by the Book of the Night Sky. He works under different rules than Arf.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 21:09
Except Zafira isn't a familiar. He's one of the four Guardian Knights created by the Book of the Night Sky. He works under different rules than Arf.
A 'Guardian Beast' as the ancient Velka-users call it.
Which is basically the same thing as a familiar.
So yeah, he works under the same rule as Arf, just add in the program part.
Meh, I'm always a little irked every time bad guys spare defeated good guys and not deal the final blow. Granted, Jail asked for it, and for a semi-decent reason (( if only for image-sake )),
Fate and co want to arrest Jail and the Numbers, not to kill them. As any police force in anime, they believe needless killing is to be avoided.
Why would Jail think otherwise?
Remember, this is Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha. There is no real Bad Guy/Good Guy opposition, merely people who believe in what they do, and don't agree with each other. (And Nanoha will win, because her name is in the show's title.)
Precia had a very good reason (in her own mind, at least) to seek the Jewel Seeds, and Nanoha and Chrono had their own reason too.
Signum-tachi had a very good reason to complete the book of darkness, while Chrono-tachi had a very good reason to prevent them. And Graham honestly believed what he did what the right thing.
In StrikerS, Jail thinks the Lost Logia should be put to good use, and the TSAB thinks they're too dangerous. And each group fights for their own beliefs.
Besides, Jail is a creator of life, so I don't think he likes killing.
No point killing them, they are too easily replaced, THEN we'll be treated to MORE new characters...
In terms of plot? Maybe not so much, but we already have one too many characters being nerf for space, and one too many characters who aren't doing anything. So character-wise, it's not a very good thing.
Yes, but those were considered small scaled conflicts, low Causalities are understandable.
Still, if this is the (theoretically) the final series, Almost everyone can be still alive save a few. And You can generally just phase out character like what they did with Arf and to an extent; Yunno and Zafira
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 21:35
Fate and co want to arrest Jail and the Numbers, not to kill them. As any police force in anime, they believe needless killing is to be avoided.
Why would Jail think otherwise?
Doesn't mean that they won't kill. Polices have shoot to kill before if the situations warrents it.
And being attacked like that sure warrents that lethal force.
Again, just because the person has the best intentions in mind, doesn't mean they are excused of crimes.
That said, some of the worst decisions are made with the best interest in mind.
Besides, Jail is a creator of life, so I don't think he likes killing.
You serious? Did you just forget him getting high over the destruction of Ground center?
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 21:39
You serious? Did you just forget him gleeing at the destruction of Ground center?
Well... no one died. Not even cannon fodders.
Either it's just an ego-filling publicity stunt (( look, I owned you without even killing a single one, you'd be dead long ago if I was remotely serious )) or he really cares about...LIFE. :heh:
Gearhead
2007-07-22, 21:43
Or he's just a fruitcake.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 21:45
Well... no one died. Not even cannon fodders.
Either it's just an ego-filling publicity stunt (( look, I owned you without even killing a single one, you'd be dead long ago if I was remotely serious )) or he really cares about...LIFE. :heh:
But they fact that he was getting it off all over the idea, really doesn't scream "I don't want to do this, but if I have to..."
It's most likely a psychological stun... Or he's a fruitcake.
Doesn't mean that they won't kill. Polices have shoot to kill before if the situations warrents it.
That's right.
Jail has no reason to act otherwise: avoid killing if possible.
You serious? Did you just forget him getting high over the destruction of Ground center?
He wanted to destroy the symbol.
Likewise, at the end of ep 17, Uno intends to destroy the 6th Division's _building_, not the people, since she asks them to evacuate.
Anyway, I suppose that in episode 18, we'll know whether some people actually died in the attack.
Meophist
2007-07-22, 21:48
Hrmm… I watched the episode, and…
I should've seen that coming. I'm beginning to wonder if there's something else about Subaru's idolation of Nanoha that's been unsaid.
He must has a bright side that's never shown in public since the numbers seem to hold him in a fairly high regard.Probably similar situation to Precia...pretty sweet guy in the beginning :heh:
Aaron008R
2007-07-22, 21:54
Let me say this once again; Holy. Shit.
This episode IS action, and visual alone is enough to understand 90% out of this episode.
Oh, and yes, I've noticed that the magazine preview I provided a while back was slightly off in this ep... well, not much but still.
- Uno takes the honor of prologue in this ep, where she explains that they've put 11 out of all 12 Numbers in this mission.
Their primary objective is to "bloodlessly" conquer GC and RF6, capture "Sei-Oh no Utsuwa", and secondary objective is to capture Type-0.
- EP starts with duel of two Velka Knights in the sky.
Vita and Rein notices that the opponent's unison-attack timing is slightly off, which suggests that Zest and Agito are not so compatible.
Still, they're covering that up with sheer skill and experience, which is making them very tough opponent.
Zest then suggest Agito to stop their unison, then insists to use his drive's Full Drive to finish Vita in one hit.
Agito objects his suggestion that using Full Drive will shorten his life, which is unacceptable for her no matter what.
- Forwards fighting against Uendi and Nove, where Forwards are quite holding on their own.
Nove uses her own Wing Road which is yellow in color, and Uendi uses her... "thing" like a beam-launcher.
Assisted by Caro's boosting magic, Teana makes some hell amount of Fake Sillouettes that are effective even against Sentou Kijin, which suprises both of opponents.
As Erio (Thunder Rage!) and Subaru gives them a good punch to make enough distraction, Forwards decides to retreat to join up with Aces.
After Forwards went out of scene, Cinque calls Uendi and Nove that she is engaging with another Type-0, one that is "First", and need assistance.
On the screen with Cinque is... most expectedly, Ginga.
- Schach catches up with N&F, where she explains that people in the main-room has successfully forced the door open.
According to her, Hayate, Carim and Signum are remaining in main-room and explaining about attackers to security team.
Then, Forwards join up with three, and gives them their anticipated devices back.
However, Subaru notices that communication to Ginga went out and as Fate calls to Long-Arch HQ, she finds out that RF6 base is also under attack and is failing.
Responding to the situation, Nanoha splits the team; Stars are to secure the safety of Ginga and mop-up of enemy, and Lightnings are to fall back to RF6 base.
- The RF6 base in fire, with exausted Shamal and Zafira standing as final line of defence...
Otto praises them for keeping them at bey with only 2, but it's closing to end; s/he uses his/her IS "Ray Storm" to finish off the structure, and Dido smacks Zafira down to ground with her "Twin Blades".
Then Otto proceeds to finish them off... Hayate gets a gut feeling of them... Oh no, can't they be...
- Vice! :D
- On the sky, Lightnings encounter Tre and Sette; Fate orders her children to leave her behind and head to RF6.
Caro hesitates, but Erio convinces her that they need Fried to stay in sky and thus useless for aereal combat.
Fate activates Zamber Form and confronts two Numbers...
- Back to fighting of Vita and Zest, Zest detects that several over S are starting their action and GC's defence is going back to life.
As Signum is closing in to their position, Zest thinks it's time to retreat but Agito is so desperate to give a one blow to Rein.
Vita catches Agito's action and try to intercept it, but Zest goes Full Drive and intercepts Vita before that.
With Graf Eizen crashed miserably, Vita falls to ground, defeated...
Well... Signum is too much of wage-snatch, aint it :heh:
- Subaru rushes toward Ginga's posision, she's even outspeeding Nanoha by far thanks to the enviroment of indoor.
- Subaru reaches where Ginga is... only to find out that 3 Numbers are about to pack blood-stained and unconcious Ginga into container.
Subaru snaps out, her eyes turn yellow... like those of Numbers.
B Part:- Yelling them to give her sister back, Subaru charges toward Nove, completely drown in rage.
As both crashes into wall from their contact, Nove analyzes that Subaru's Inherent Skill is destruction-on-contact type.
Cinque tells her little sisters to run with Ginga, and she will take her alone until Sei arrives to extract her.
Uendi is already activating her IS "Aerial Rave", but Nove is hesitating to leave Cinque alone... Cinque assures her that she can attack without making contact.
- With Sentou Kijin's circle pattern under her, Subaru madly charges against Cinque, who's only berely managing to defend her attack.
She's even crashing her fists and MC on her feet, but that doesn't matter to her... she uses her IS again, which finally penetrates Cinque's defence.
However, Cinque's desperate attack damaged Subaru enough to stop her movement... showing inside her left arm was a sparkling mechanical inside...
As Cinque was about to giving up, Sei finally reaches place and extracts her.
Left alone, Subaru collapses into ground, her eyes turning back to normal... and Mach Calibur stops her function due to damage.
Then, Nanoha and Teana finally reach the place... well, isn't that a bit too slow? :heh:
- Back to RF6, Lucino sees off the remaining system of the base is dying...
Vice was still holding his own, but with Lutecia's appearance, he remembers his past; In one of hostage incident, he misfired and hit the hostage in eye... who was a little girl.
With trauma of recollection, he stopped dead, trembling... that was more than enough time for Lutecia to blow him into wall.
- On top of flaming RF6 base, Uno contacts Lutecia and thanks her for retrieving Vivio.
Uno offers her an extraction but Lutecia refuses her offer, insisting to fly on a Type-2 Drone until they reach teleportable distance.
- On Fried, Erio and Caro are about to reach RF6 base... then they find Lutecia's taking Vivio away.
Erio's flashback kicks in;
Mondials had a son, Erio Mondial, who died from sickness.
Being apparently rich family, Mondials somehow had contact to someone with Project F technology... thus, they got their son revived.
However, that didn't go unnoticed and some organization came to take him away...
I don't want to believe they were TSAB, but they effectively shut Mondials up by merely mentining about record of their son's death and Project F, so they definitely got law on their back... or at least I think they're.
- Erio activates Strada's Mode 2, which effectively turns itself into chunk of thrusters to fly.
He literrally rockets toward Lutecia, but eventually knocked down by Dido, and Caro got bound by Otto and drops.
- Fate desperately questions her opponent where the hell Scaglietti is, and suprisingly, Tre and Sette responds with politeness in their tone.
They answer that if Fate is willing to join them, they'll tell her the whereabouts immediately.
Fate retorts them that he's unforgivable criminal, which they responds that please don't say such a sad thing, for it was Scaglietti himself that made the baseline of Project F, he's like a father to both Fate and Erio.
Fate STFU them, so they decides to take a leave for this time... at last moment, Tre tells Fate that as Fate already noticed, she can not win against them next time.
- Back to RF6, Uno is announcing via Type-3 Drone that Drones are going to completely destroying the structure in 5 minutes, with emphasising that they're not intending to target human in any way, and suggest any remaining personnel to leave the place immedietly.
Caro, in fear of losing place where she whole-heartedly called "home", summons Voltair and goes rampage.
- Back to GC's main room, Scaglietti is having a speech against these who presented at Presentation...
He tells them that today's attack was a wrath from these who tried to improve technology in right direction, but considered illigal and shafted by TSAB under the name of law-keeping and LL restriction.
Then he continues that he, as a human, still loves human and their life, so that they tried today's attack to be as blood-less and humane as possible.
Then he tells them that he proved the power and technology he has, and he is prepared to make special offer for these who interested in it and waiting for contact.
- Staring at collapsing tower on fire, Carim feebly says that the prophecy became real...
However, Hayate tells herself that RF6 is not died yet, and swears for revenge.
- So... where in the world our Nanoha was in all these critical times? :heh:
Preview:- Titled "Return of the Wing", Teana and Erio swears their determination to stand up again.
In one short cut I saw someone appears to be Auris pointing finger to Hayate... maybe interrogation in process?
Holy fucking awesome.
http://blog.seiha.org/?p=215
I'm in the process of uploading the Subaru part and ripping out the Erio/Caro part at the end. I'll post those once they're up.
WELL!:D:D:D This episode certainly delivers!:D
In any case, since most of the points I would have liked to ask were already mentioned. I'll just ask these.
1) Did anyone get the name of Zest's Armed Device?
2) How did Subaru grow up while being a cyborg?:twitch: Her systems grew as well?!
3) Did the left Revolver Knuckle get left behind? *hopeful*
4) Is Caro limited as well?
5) Did Voltaire come out from the summoning square or formed from Fried?
I knew it! Doc strives for the prosperity of humanity! Fighting against those who hinder its rightful development!
:heh::heh::heh: That's one way of putting it.:heh:
Drones won't kill innocents but reply to the violence accordingly, that's it :D BTW when Shamal and Zafira were shot I almost believed that there's justice in the world after all :innocent::innocent: And Hayate's reaction was ensuring :rolleyes: But then they had to ruin my perfect mood :frustrated: Almost made me rate the episode 9 instead of 10.
For good or for bad, THIS IS NANOHA!!!:heh::heh::heh:
yea i know what you mean...i was all up for a funeral the next day considering hayate's "ZOMG i cant feel their life signals anymore!" :O reaction...*sigh*
Anime cliche. Can't feel their life force ~> OMG! Their dead! ~> No. We we're just knocked out good.:heh:
Nothing personal against them, it was just a perfect moment for some members of the cast to go for good (it's unlikely to see something decent performed by Shamal or Zafira in future episodes anyway), but they missed the opportunity :upset:
Main cast? Probably. But not this early.:uhoh:
IF there was no limiter and Fate was full S+ and with Zamber mode seeing that the Numbers weren't having much trouble defending against her attacks would either mean that they're that good or that she performed bad. Future will show what was really the case.
I'm betting more on that her agenda wasn't to elimante them for the time being. But at least they should have shown some shots!:frustrated::frustrated::frustrated:
Neither seems all that serious, that Fate's clearly more agitated. The Numbers had the no-casualty mission objective going for them, and they clearly preferred if Fate was willing to join them and become Jail's harem member #13, the pseudo-daughter archetype.
Fate on the other hand, wanted to inquiry on Scaglietti's whereabouts, so well... but the last words of the Numbers does give less edge to Fate, since they're still hoping to talk sense into her next time, and that "you know you can't win next time" foreshadowing...
As for Scaglietti... Well, it was both advertising, sponsor showcase alongside personal motives (( Material/Type-0 ))... There's probably a bunch of bull in his words as is every advertisement. At least it can be said that thus far, he doesn't seem to treat his subjects that badly. The Numbers (( even Tre )) seems to have a degree of attachment to him, looking sad when Fate bullshited Jail, and well... Lutecia's a Jail Is Fine Too. And at least he wasn't the evil sucker involved with Agito/Elio.
Let's see if he intends to dissect Vivio or give her candies and sweets before dissecting her. And what he intends to do with Ginga too, though I think mind-control seems to be the most famous line of thought (( though I'd prefer if Ginga was genuinely converted over, but alas... highly doubtful. ))
Yup. Good points there. As well as 'A Jail is Fine too' elements. As to be expected from Nightengale.:D In any case, Jail certainly went up the awesome villain meter. It makes the show and the conflict all the better.:D
Remember, this is Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha. There is no real Bad Guy/Good Guy opposition, merely people who believe in what they do, and don't agree with each other. (And Nanoha will win, because her name is in the show's title.)
Precia had a very good reason (in her own mind, at least) to seek the Jewel Seeds, and Nanoha and Chrono had their own reason too.
Signum-tachi had a very good reason to complete the book of darkness, while Chrono-tachi had a very good reason to prevent them. And Graham honestly believed what he did what the right thing.
In StrikerS, Jail thinks the Lost Logia should be put to good use, and the TSAB thinks they're too dangerous. And each group fights for their own beliefs.
Besides, Jail is a creator of life, so I don't think he likes killing.
That's a kind way to put it.:) But as for me, war is just about conflicting ideas. The one who wins will be recorded by history as the one who is right. But in the end, there are only victims.
Well... no one died. Not even cannon fodders.
That's quite well-coordinated.:heh:
Either it's just an ego-filling publicity stunt (( look, I owned you without even killing a single one, you'd be dead long ago if I was remotely serious )) or he really cares about...LIFE. :heh:
Either way, it's still good for dramaticism.:heh:
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 21:54
That's right.
Jail has no reason to act otherwise: avoid killing if possible.
Ever wondered why these 'advancments' he makes are all related to weapons of war?
Both past and present.
He wanted to destroy the symbol.
Likewise, at the end of ep 17, Uno intends to destroy the 6th Division's _building_, not the people, since she asks them to evacuate.
Anyway, I suppose that in episode 18, we'll know whether some people actually died in the attack.
Nonetheless, that 'symbol' had unarmed people inside. Why didn't he force them out if he just wants to attack the building? For that matter, why not choose a time when there's less people around?
And Uno was just following orders.
Either it's just an ego-filling publicity stunt
He disagrees with the TSAB (on the subject of Lost Logia), so he want to prove that they're just a bunch of losers.
or he really cares about...LIFE.
I think it's simpler than that: deciding to kill someone is not something one takes lightly.
I mean, have you ever killed anyone?
2) How did Subaru grow up while being a cyborg?:twitch: Her systems grew as well?!
Why not? We're in a world of magic and advanced technology here.
4) Is Caro limited as well?
AFAIK, only her device is limited.
5) Did Voltaire come out from the summoning square
Yes. Caro can summon him; he's completely independant from Freid. More explanations in episode 10.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 22:00
He must has a bright side that's never shown in public since the numbers seem to hold him in a fairly high regard.Probably similar situation to Precia...pretty sweet guy in the beginning :heh:
Jail X Numbers :heh:
He disagrees with the TSAB (on the subject of Lost Logia), so he want to prove that they're just a bunch of losers.
By shooting at them? Sure, why not? Everybody does it.
I think it's simpler than that: deciding to kill someone is not something one takes lightly.
I mean, have you ever killed anyone?
Thats nice, now convince us why he works only with weapons of war.
And you are mistaken, he doesn't do the fighting, his subjects does.
Giving an order to kill is different than doing the killing.
Ever wondered why these 'advancments' he makes are all related to weapons of war?
Basically, TSAB does the same: magical weapons, military training...
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-07-22, 22:05
Screenie Collage:
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/1524/1185126397827pz7.th.jpg (http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1185126397827pz7.jpg)
from reading all the posts in this thread and viewing this screen collage, this must have been the most destructive Nanoha episode to date!
-So Subaru and Ginga are CYBORGS!!???0_0 this has got me thinking that the father has his name written all over this experiment...I'm thinking that before his wife and Genya ever had kids, she died. So having the feeling of losing something dear to him, he was desperate to have some kind of memory of his wife. And maybe thats how Subaru and Ginga were made...cyborgs with the DNA of their mother.
But whats shocking is the creator of this experiment, its Scaglietti...what is this guy? A life creating expert?
but subaru got really messed up in this episode...ouch!
But the "powering up" of Subaru and the unison of Zest in episode 16 still Scream out DBZ...:heh:
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 22:05
Basically, TSAB does the same: magical weapons, military training...
It's a military/police organization...
By shooting at them?
Nope. By showing that a small group can attack the Ground Center, break the building, and go away, without anyone in TSAB being able to do anything useful. Including the three Aces.
Thats nice, now convince us why he works only with weapons of war.
Nanoha does, too (she's not the White Devil for nothing), and that doesn't make her a Bad Guy.
Giving an order to kill is different than doing the killing.
Yeah, but even giving the order to kill is not a decision a human being takes lightly.
It's a military/police organization...
When TSAB uses/develops weapons, that's Good, and when Jail uses/develops weapons, that's Bad? Why?
Scaglietti...what is this guy? A life creating expert?
That's exactly what he is. Apparently he was the instigator (or at least one of the main scientists) of Project F, though whether he's Fate's creator is debatable.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 22:18
Nope. By showing that a small group can attack the Ground Center, break the building, and go away, without anyone in TSAB being able to do anything useful. Including the three Aces.
Violence is violence.
You're basically trying to justify that anyone with enough power can do whatever they want to prove their point.
Nanoha does, too (she's not the White Devil for nothing), and that doesn't make her a Bad Guy.
Nanoha doesn't attack people and buildings whenever she wants.
Yeah, but even giving the order to kill is not a decision a human being takes lightly.
There are ways to make it easier. By not being there when it happens. By not seeing the bodies, hearing the screams.
And the way he sees people as test subjects... Doesn't scream "loves lives".
EDIT:
When TSAB uses/develops weapons, that's Good, and when Jail uses/develops weapons, that's Bad? Why?
Because Jail isn't fighting crime.
Burner of Anime
2007-07-22, 22:22
In StrikerS, Jail thinks the Lost Logia should be put to good use, and the TSAB thinks they're too dangerous. And each group fights for their own beliefs.
Besides, Jail is a creator of life, so I don't think he likes killing.
Ya, it's just the torture, imprisonment and abuse of sentient machines/programs/clones I have problems with. What about the indiscriminate release of heavily armed drones whose search/retrival protocols include massive property damage and lethal use of force? I'd FIle that next to Dr. Mengele and the justifications for running nuclear tests over inhabited islands "for the Greater Good" for Dr J. This joker is so inhumanly out of touch with the collateral damage that a lesson involving a small shed with the resident berserker girls is in order.
Anyway, latest episode with the Terminator was a big suprise. What is with Subaru now? Is she a lost relic weapon, or a hybrid from a sentient machine? I'm taking the later since her internals appear to 'grow' with her. Thing is, it neatly explains how she is able to smack several tonnes of metal around without any problems. I'm betting her dad has some explaining to do.
Need to look at the clip again to see if the Numbers left Ginga's R-Knuckle behind. The nightmare scenario would be for Subaru to use both, load 10 cartridges and just flatten the opposition >_<
You're basically trying to justify
Nope.
But Jail wanted to prove, and did prove, that the TSAB (or at least the Ground force) is unfit to protect Midchilda.
And he did that using TSAB's methods: violence, not lethal if possible.
From Jail's point of vue, freeing the universe from TSAB's rule (and especially the ban on Lost Logia) is a good deed.
(And indeed, IMHO, getting rid of Regius would be a Good Thing. But I digress.)
Doesn't scream "loves lives".
I said creator of life. That's not exactly the same thing.
His job is to create life.
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-07-22, 22:27
lets see...
-Ginga beaten up and taken away alongside with Vivio.
-Zafira and Shamal beaten and maybe at the brink of death just like Ginga.
-Erio unconscious and beaten, Subaru beaten.
-Vice coming out of retirement and tried sniping but got caught off guard by Lutecia because of a past incident and got beat.
-Vita and Rein beaten by Zest...and without UNISON! (this part I'm not too sure yet...:heh:)
I'd say RF6 has met its first defeat. I think we all misjudge Scaglietti as being a wimpy scientist/villain...he's actually far worse than what Precia and Reinforce did in the past seasons.
Ever wondered why these 'advancments' he makes are all related to weapons of war?
Both past and present.
Nonetheless, that 'symbol' had unarmed people inside. Why didn't he force them out if he just wants to attack the building? For that matter, why not choose a time when there's less people around?
And Uno was just following orders.
It was to make an example of sorts, not so many civillians so innocents will inevitably die from panic and enough to make people know you mean buissiness.
Because Jail isn't fighting crime.
From his point of vue, he is fighting against an injust law. He might even think of himself as Zorro or something.
Need to look at the clip again to see if the Numbers left Ginga's R-Knuckle behind. The nightmare scenario would be for Subaru to use both, load 10 cartridges and just flatten the opposition >_<
Someone in an earlier episode discussion suggested that Subaru would be dual-wielding by the end of the series. This episode suggests that just might happen.
Just got the peercast raw and finished watching it. Still shaking at Subaru's berserker mode. It wasn't unexpected given all the hints that were dropped from the manga and early episodes (ability to learn and master magic and shooting arts under a year; insane physical strength even without magic boosting; ability to take heavy impact without flinching; Wing Road being an Influent Skill; Jail referring to Erio, Fate and Subaru as children of Project F etc), but what a way to bring it to the fore.
I have to admit I did feel for Subaru after that though. Even giving it almost her all she was still beaten by chickenshit tactics, and saw her beloved sister virtually dead and carted off in a suitcase.
Now we can only hope to see Subaru getting her revenge by literally ripping some Numbers to shreds - her explosive Inherent Skill won't be doing otherwise. I personally think that after this attack, RF6 will be ditching the "take them in alive" policy and going all out. Declaration of war, perhaps?
Well worth the 8 1/2 hour wait for the torrent to appear.
Think I'll go watch it again.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 22:37
Nope.
But Jail wanted to prove, and did prove, that the TSAB (or at least the Ground force) is unfit to protect Midchilda.
And he did that using TSAB's methods: violence, not lethal if possible.
No, I'm pretty sure that's what you're doing.
Jail has the power to do what he did, which he did because he wants to. He choose to attack them.
And you seem clouded about the TSAB, they HAVE to use violence sometimes because criminals don't go peacefully. Remember what happened to Teana's brother?
From Jail's point of vue, freeing the universe from TSAB's rule (and especially the ban on Lost Logia) is a good deed.
(And indeed, IMHO, getting rid of Regius would be a Good Thing. But I digress.)
So he's an Anarchist.
I said creator of life. That's not exactly the same thing.
His job is to create life.
No, but you also said that he treasures life. Or at least know it's value.
EDIT:
From his point of vue, he is fighting against an injust law. He might even think of himself as Zorro or something.
Yup, except that injust law only seems to apply to HIM.
I personally think that after this attack, RF6 will be ditching the "take them in alive" policy and going all out. Declaration of war, perhaps?
RF6's first priority is to find and rescue Vivio and Ginga. That means finding Jail.
Which means, the more of his minions they capture alive, the more chances they have to gain some information, the better.
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-07-22, 22:40
I think after this incident, I don't think any of the numbers will be alive at the end of this season...just from this, they have demonstrated how hostile and dangerous they can be.
So if Subaru had the same colored eyes as the Numbers when she went berserk mode, then that means the Numbers are cyborgs themselves.
I wonder if Nanoha even knows about Subaru and Ginga's Cyborg bodies. Forget that, I wonder if all of RF6, excluding the forwards though, knew about their bodies...
Avatar_notADV
2007-07-22, 22:41
You guys are forgetting Vivio.
Remember that the whole "getting Relics" thing was a happy bonus - finding her was the jackpot. He's got something to do with her, something involving the holy whatsitcalled; possibly she's the host for whatever he's planning on creating. (But she's not irreplaceable, else they wouldn't have tried zapping the copter she was in.)
The real question is, where did she come from? She didn't come from Jail's organization. Is there still a Project F lab somewhere? Was she a military prototype? It's significant that there's a "holy" involved; we only have one church in the show so far, folks, so it's entirely possible that they're involved somehow. And boy, wouldn't that suck? ;p
Had a nasty thought about Regius. Why didn't he take heed, bulk up, prevent the attack, when it makes him look incompetent? What if he agrees with Jail in the first place? By sacrificing his own HQ, he pounds home the point that current TSAB doctrine is inferior, and opens up the perfect opportunity for him to push for combat cyborgs in his own force... and what do you know, here's a guy who has the technology and production facilities handy, how nice, how nice. Were they working together from the beginning? Or is Regius just a small-minded twit? We do know that he thinks he has a superweapon under his belt... could be cyborgs, could be whatever produced Vivio, could be something completely different.
On another note, keep in mind that Lutecia is after something completely different from Jail, and the Numbers are all a little deferential to her; it's entirely possible she could serve as a wedge, depending on how the plot turns out.
From his point of vue, he is fighting against an injust law. He might even think of himself as Zorro or something.
Sociopaths usually do manage to find a reason to excuse their behaviour. Doesn't change the fact that he'd, probably quite happily, personally crush-throttle the life out of all our favorite characters at his time and pleasure, if he had the physical strength to bring them down. Maybe the producers need to do that to shatter the illusion of such philosophical motives.... :cool:
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 22:45
You guys are forgetting Vivio.
Remember that the whole "getting Relics" thing was a happy bonus - finding her was the jackpot. He's got something to do with her, something involving the holy whatsitcalled; possibly she's the host for whatever he's planning on creating. (But she's not irreplaceable, else they wouldn't have tried zapping the copter she was in.)
It's not really the issue of being irreplaceable... If she was the real deal, that copter zap wouldn't kill her anyway.
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-07-22, 22:46
You guys are forgetting Vivio.
Remember that the whole "getting Relics" thing was a happy bonus - finding her was the jackpot. He's got something to do with her, something involving the holy whatsitcalled; possibly she's the host for whatever he's planning on creating. (But she's not irreplaceable, else they wouldn't have tried zapping the copter she was in.)
The real question is, where did she come from? She didn't come from Jail's organization. Is there still a Project F lab somewhere? Was she a military prototype? It's significant that there's a "holy" involved; we only have one church in the show so far, folks, so it's entirely possible that they're involved somehow. And boy, wouldn't that suck? ;p
Had a nasty thought about Regius. Why didn't he take heed, bulk up, prevent the attack, when it makes him look incompetent? What if he agrees with Jail in the first place? By sacrificing his own HQ, he pounds home the point that current TSAB doctrine is inferior, and opens up the perfect opportunity for him to push for combat cyborgs in his own force... and what do you know, here's a guy who has the technology and production facilities handy, how nice, how nice. Were they working together from the beginning? Or is Regius just a small-minded twit? We do know that he thinks he has a superweapon under his belt... could be cyborgs, could be whatever produced Vivio, could be something completely different.
well Vivio was labeled by the Numbers "the vessel of saints". So I'm guessing theres more to Scaglietti's plan than this.
Forgot about Regius, what did he do in this episode anyways?
he didn't even prevent the attacks being executed in this battle with his own troops?
this makes him even more suspicious if he's in cooperation with Scaglietti and his creation of the Einjehars...I'm also awaiting the awakening of Regius' Einjehars and how it will impact the way how these turn of events have turned out.
I'm guessing Vivio could be the key to these Einjehars and that Regius could be in fact, be Scaglietti's so called client.
RF6's first priority is to find and rescue Vivio and Ginga. That means finding Jail.
Which means, the more of his minions they capture alive, the more chances they have to gain some information, the better.
True.
But I personally don't think many of RF6 will care about the diplomatic solution after an unprovoked attack. But if taking some Numbers down leads to Jail, then that'd work too.
Had a nasty thought about Regius. Why didn't he take heed, bulk up, prevent the attack, when it makes him look incompetent? What if he agrees with Jail in the first place? By sacrificing his own HQ, he pounds home the point that current TSAB doctrine is inferior, and opens up the perfect opportunity for him to push for combat cyborgs in his own force... and what do you know, here's a guy who has the technology and production facilities handy, how nice, how nice. Were they working together from the beginning? Or is Regius just a small-minded twit? We do know that he thinks he has a superweapon under his belt... could be cyborgs, could be whatever produced Vivio, could be something completely different.
Nice line of thought, actually.
As they say, the plot thickens.
And you seem clouded about the TSAB, they HAVE to use violence sometimes because criminals don't go peacefully.
From TSAB's point of vue: Jail is a Bad Guy, you have to stop him by any means necessary, including violence.
From Jail's point of vue: TSAB are Bads Guys, you have to stop them by any means necessary, including violence.
No, but you also said that he treasures life.
I really don't think I used that word.
Yup, except that injust law only seems to apply to HIM.
Yes and no. He thinks that TSAB's law hampers humanity's development.
Mirificus
2007-07-22, 22:53
Someone in an earlier episode discussion suggested that Subaru would be dual-wielding by the end of the series. This episode suggests that just might happen.
It looks like the numbers stripped Ginga's knuckle and skates. It didn't look like any of the numbers picked them up before fleeing so presumably they've been left behind.
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8435/strikers172033at7.th.jpg (http://img186.imageshack.us/my.php?image=strikers172033at7.jpg)
From TSAB's point of vue: Jail is a Bad Guy, you have to stop him by any means necessary, including violence.
From Jail's point of vue: TSAB are Bads Guys, you have to stop them by any means necessary, including violence.
I don't really see how any of that entitles Jail to a pre-emptive strike on the TSAB and the RF6 HQ, let alone kidnapping anyone he pleases.
Burner of Anime
2007-07-22, 22:53
Here's the big irony of Dr. J asking people to get out of the building while he's redecorating- how is the entire crew going to get out when surrounded by a legion of AMF hax drones? The hax means there will be no teleporting, phasing and flying for anyone capable of doing so. Doesn't help that the drone have only one setting, Kill all opposition.
These guys are worse than Daleks, at least the cans from Dr. Who can't climb stairs [later models levitate though :uhoh:].
I envision the next few episodes will be about R6 being dismantled and eventually going rogue with their coincedently "decomissioned" ship, Subaru's Emo time with dad and Erio having to deal with being severely underpowered [as usual].
Julius Firefocht
2007-07-22, 22:54
So...if Subaru is a cyborg, what is the little girl that Nanoha saved right at the start of episode 1? I don't think cyborgs can grow into teenagehood naturally.
There has to be some other explanation to this. Maybe the arm that was injured was merely a cybernetic replacement, and the body itself is still largely organic.
Or maybe, just maybe, it is a plothole that will be conveniently forgotten and never resolved.
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 22:56
Here's the big irony of Dr. J asking people to get out of the building while he's redecorating- how is the entire crew going to get out when surrounded by a legion of AMF hax drones? The hax means there will be no teleporting, phasing and flying for anyone capable of doing so. Doesn't help that the drone have only one setting, Kill all opposition.
Correction. The drones were no longer lethal by the time of the announcement. We could see Teana helping with evacuations WHILE the drones were flying around just several meters away. :rolleyes:
So...if Subaru is a cyborg, what is the little girl that Nanoha saved right at the start of episode 1? I don't think cyborgs can grow into teenagehood naturally.
There has to be some other explanation to this. Maybe the arm that was injured was merely a cybernetic replacement, and the body itself is still largely organic.
Or maybe, just maybe, it is a plothole that will be conveniently forgotten and never resolved.
Well, until we get a clearer explanation, be it from Jail, Subaru, Mariel, Genya, whoever involved...
Magic. And it's clearly not just the arms. We saw some small holes on Subaru's abdomen, and there was no blood flowing from it... I think. And the eyes as well.
Sociopaths usually do manage to find a reason to excuse their behaviour.
Are you talking about Jail, Regius, or both? :-p
Apparently Jail wants to physicall/magically improve humans. I personnally find that creepy, but from the scientist's point of vue, it might appear like a good thing. And the TSAB does hamper his work.
And deciding whether his a Bad Guy or not, is IMHO a matter of personal opinion, not a Universal Truth.
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-07-22, 22:59
So...if Subaru is a cyborg, what is the little girl that Nanoha saved right at the start of episode 1? I don't think cyborgs can grow into teenagehood naturally.
There has to be some other explanation to this. Maybe the arm that was injured was merely a cybernetic replacement, and the body itself is still largely organic.
Or maybe, just maybe, it is a plothole that will be conveniently forgotten and never resolved.
hmm...this is true, and if it is, it blows my theory of how Subaru and Ginga became cyborgs in my previous posts....
oh wells...:heh:
If Subaru will be dual wielding by the time of the final battle, then if Ginga's going to become an enemy of TSAB due to brainwashing by Scaglietti, I wonder what weapon she will be using against Subaru and TSAB...
Burner of Anime
2007-07-22, 23:01
Correction. The drones were no longer lethal by the time of the announcement. We could see Teana helping with evacuations WHILE the drones were flying around just several meters away. :rolleyes:
So all the drama about depowering the entire crew and shooting at them is forgiven with a public service announcement? :twitch:
This is like Godzilla apologising after the latest Neo-Tokyo rampage. :heh:
So...if Subaru is a cyborg, what is the little girl that Nanoha saved right at the start of episode 1? I don't think cyborgs can grow into teenagehood naturally.
Cyborgs with technology similar to what we know, can't grow.
But I can't see why a technology a little bit more advanced couldn't create mechanical body parts that grow with the host.
Besides, right now, we know that her left arm is mechanical. That's all.
Mirificus
2007-07-22, 23:05
Are you talking about Jail, Regius, or both? :-p
Apparently Jail wants to physicall/magically improve humans. I personnally find that creepy, but from the scientist's point of vue, it might appear like a good thing. And the TSAB does hamper his work.
And deciding whether his a Bad Guy or not, is IMHO a matter of personal opinion, not a Universal Truth.
So a difference in philosophy over the use of technology and magic gives Jail the right to have his minions beat Ginga to a bloody pulp and kidnap her and Vivio for his own ends?
if Ginga's going to become an enemy of TSAB due to brainwashing by Scaglietti, I wonder what weapon she will be using against Subaru and TSAB...
Jail can provide new revolver knuckles, like he did for one of the Numbers.
It looks like the numbers stripped Ginga's knuckle and skates. It didn't look like any of the numbers picked them up before fleeing so presumably they've been left behind.
Yes, I am aware that the Numbers had discarded Ginga's armaments when they packed her off in a shipping crate. Hence my comment. The series is certainly placed for Subaru coming to terms with her true past, some obscene powering up, the cliched but still awesome "I must get stronger! I must rescue my sister!" speech, followed by Mother Nakajima-style dual-wielding.
Bet most people expected Ginga as the older of the two sisters to continue the dual-wielding legacy.
Cyborgs with technology similar to what we know, can't grow.
But I can't see why a technology a little bit more advanced couldn't create mechanical body parts that grow with the host.
Besides, right now, we know that her left arm is mechanical. That's all.
Intelligent, adaptive hydraulics?
Isn't that what modern scientists are working towards?
So a difference in philosophy over the use of technology and magic gives Jail the right to have his minions beat Ginga to a bloody pulp and kidnap her and Vivio for his own ends?
Every real-life army or police force does its share of bad actions, and TSAB and Jail's forces are no exception to the rule.
I don't mean to say that Jail is an angel; I'm merely trying to say that there's no reason to decide that one (Jail) is the Bad Guy and the other (TSAB) is the Good Guy(s). They're symmetrical.
Jail appears to be the Bad Guy because the show is called Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha. He might have appeared as the Good Guy if the show was called Magical Girl Lyrical Lutecia.
...and on that note, good night ;-)
Bet most people expected Ginga as the older of the two sisters to continue the dual-wielding legacy.
Yep, especially since before Subaru was rescued by Nanoha, she wasn't interested in fighting.
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 23:17
Bet most people expected Ginga as the older of the two sisters to continue the dual-wielding legacy.
Er...wasn't it obvious as day the moment it was stated there was a 2nd knuckle, that Subaru would be the one to dual-wield if it ever comes to that?
Since she's like...a main character and all... (( as opposed to Ginga ))
LoweGear
2007-07-22, 23:20
Cyborgs with technology similar to what we know, can't grow.
But I can't see why a technology a little bit more advanced couldn't create mechanical body parts that grow with the host.
Besides, right now, we know that her left arm is mechanical. That's all.
Not completely mechanical of course, since we still see blood coming out of her hands when she was bashing Cinque's barrier, and there was even blood around the area where her elbow was torn open.
And adaptive mechanics isn't that farfetched... we already have technologies for artificial muscles and such today. Besides, if her cybernetic parts are based on magic it's possible to make them grow along with her biological parts via the same techniques used to transform devices from one form to another.
As for dual Revolver Knuckles... since the revelation of Revolver Knuckle as a pair it's not really unexpected. But I still want to see...
HELL!!!!
AND!!!
HEAVEN!!!!
:D:D:D
Julius Firefocht
2007-07-22, 23:21
Subaru with the 2nd knuckle would mean......
HELL AND HEAVEN!
Heh, sorry. I can't resist the Gaogaigar reference.
EDIT: Sometimes I swear LoweGear can read my mind.
Er...wasn't it obvious as day the moment it was stated there was a 2nd knuckle, that Subaru would be the one to dual-wield if it ever comes to that?
Since she's like...a main character and all... (( as opposed to Ginga ))
True. However, Ginga could still dual-wield.
Just not the pair that their mother used.
Jail and the Frankenstein experiments could yield some surprising results.
FlareKnight
2007-07-22, 23:40
Well nice to know if I ever have an issue with the government and gain the ability to overthrow it I've got Fabien's backing. Nice that if you've got the power to do something you should just go ahead. But really all I see this Doctor is as a guy who wants to do something and has no issue destroying the current system to make things easier on himself. Since his current ways clearly breach a large number of laws to do his work easier it seems he'll happily destroy TSAB. Very much doubt he's out for some grand purpose to make the world a better place.
Yeah I think there would be some mechanical term that could explain it growing along with Subaru and Ginga. With the level of technology we're talking about creating artificial bodies that can mimic the growth of biological bodies could be possible. No way I can explain it but I'm sure they can pull it off.
Worried about what that nut job has in store for Vivio. Things aren't nearly over yet and I'd love an idea about what his goal is. I'm sure doing damage to TSAB and trying to gain support for what he can offer will help him. Can't hurt to have more funds probably coming his way and maybe people helping him get supplies (not that it seems to have been an issue). Really curious what's going to happen now.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-22, 23:46
Lunch break over.
From TSAB's point of vue: Jail is a Bad Guy, you have to stop him by any means necessary, including violence.
From Jail's point of vue: TSAB are Bads Guys, you have to stop them by any means necessary, including violence.
But Their reason for violence is worlds apart. Jail has proven several times that he would use force to get what he wants. Hence the TSAB deemed him as a threat.
TSAB doesn't let Jail do what he wants, hence he deems them as a threat.
GET IT? Their reasons for violence are not the same, you can't compare them from that.
I really don't think I used that word.
Yeah, I corrected myself.
Yes and no. He thinks that TSAB's law hampers humanity's development.
Base on the fact the they don't allow HIM to proceed with HIS work. I really don't see/hear other people complaining. It's not like the bureau is oppressing anyone.
Burner of Anime
2007-07-22, 23:49
Latest episode also illustrates the different between Vice and Teana. Teana has absolutely no problems firing a fatal headshot to a loli :uhoh:
In a universe where any kid under 10 has some manner of nuclear weapon, being hesitant with the trigger can have fatal consequences :eyespin:
With this epi being way beyond words, I've got nothing much to say except...
Hell! &! Heaven!!!:frustrated:
EVOLUDAR NAKAJIMA!!!
And of course... Let us await the Goddess of Destruction as she prepares to take "wing"...
GINGASIC SUBAIGAR!!!
Royal FUBAR inbound. :D
~~~~~~
And if I don't sound like me today, it means Darco's using my com to post. :heh:
First off I put my 120% support behind Nanoha x Fate :heh:
Now onwards to the ep, Males gets beaten up, Subaru goes Seed and Caro near serking summon FTW. It was surpising to see Subaru assoicate with mecha. Makes me wonder if its pre or post birth implants. Vita crying over an overloaded Rein was done quite well, Even if its makes her bit more emo. Zest is more and more cool looking now and his fighting style is more and more similar to Signum, with down to the fire elemental when unsion with Agito...
Now I need to run before Kha gets back up and running, Remember Kha is a faithful member of Legion :heh:
~~~~~~
(relogs back into own brain)
...See? :heh:
LoweGear
2007-07-22, 23:52
Latest episode also illustrates the different between Vice and Teana. Teana has absolutely no problems firing a fatal headshot to a loli :uhoh:
In a universe where any kid under 10 has some manner of nuclear weapon, being hesitant with the trigger can have fatal consequences :eyespin:
:heh:
Gotta admit though... you will be hesitant if you shot the hostage you're supposed to save through the eye :twitch::upset:
Nightengale
2007-07-22, 23:56
So all the drama about depowering the entire crew and shooting at them is forgiven with a public service announcement? :twitch:
This is like Godzilla apologising after the latest Neo-Tokyo rampage. :heh:
More like "If you have time to be dealing with my junks, you'd better evacuate your personnel, since the clock is ticking. Oh, and I've made it much easier for you, since my drones won't be on the offensive. After-service, if you will."
He's rubbing it on TSAB after his fancy display of fireworks, adding salt to the wound.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-23, 00:02
He's rubbing it on TSAB after his fancy display of fireworks, adding salt to wound.
He has better luck saying,
"Excuse me, have you seen where my- SO THERE YOU GIRLS ARE!!! I'm so sorry! It's hard to keep track of all of them, being a single parent and all... Don't worry, I'll make sure they get their just desserts!"
"Girls? What did I say about taking my stuff out to play?!"
Apparently Jail wants to physicall/magically improve humans. I personnally find that creepy, but from the scientist's point of vue, it might appear like a good thing. And the TSAB does hamper his work.
And deciding whether his a Bad Guy or not, is IMHO a matter of personal opinion, not a Universal Truth.
In a series of this nature, a person doing what he is doing for the reasons you state will always equal Bad Guy who will commit genocide without a second thought to prove he is right in what he believes. That's why he is placed in the position of Person Who Stands Against The Main Character/s, aka the Bad Guy. StrikerS is not a philosophical show about the rights and wrongs of having an organization running things like the TSAB etc etc, though it can be an aspect of the show that it isn't perfect. But in the end, we all know he'll end up gibbering in a dingy cell, forgotten by all and sundry, or be splattered on the back wall of his lab, most likely by Nanoha and/or Subaru. Because this episode has just guaranteed he won't be on Nanoha's "to befriend" list anymore. ;)
Dark Wing
2007-07-23, 00:15
Well since RF:6 just got their rear ends handed to them next up we can expect the (Your team screwed up so now it's break you all up episode, then the Oh crap we got beat emo-ness episode followed by then recovery and power-up episode. So it's safe to say we won't be seeing real battles for a little while again. :rolleyes:
Anyway on to the most important topic. THOSE BASTER! :frustrated: how dare they kidnap my Vivio! Nanoha and Fate better get up and start blasting some numbered butt! Then thay had the nerve to beat up on Ginga oh it's on!!!
sorry lost myself there for a sec...great episode by the way.:heh: Caro's Red eyes was great.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-23, 00:24
Well since RF:6 just got their rear ends handed to them next up we can expect the (Your team screwed up so now it's break you all up episode, then the Oh crap we got beat emo-ness episode followed by then recovery and power-up episode. So it's safe to say we won't be seeing real battles for a little while again. :rolleyes:
*Gagged and binded by Nightengale and Thisguy before could reveal anything...*
Anyway on to the most important topic. THOSE BASTER! :frustrated: how dare they kidnap my Vivio! Nanoha and Fate better get up and start blasting some numbered butt! Then thay had the nerve to beat up on Ginga oh it's on!!!
I wasn't expecting Ginga to be beaten like that without showing us the painful details, oh well...
Lol, yeah... Vivio gone... :)
sorry lost myself there for a sec...great episode by the way.:heh: Caro's Red eyes was great.
I wonder if it's like Evangelion, where Caro refuses to let go of Erio and reds eyes guards her against everyone :uhoh:
*Gagged and binded by Nightengale and Thisguy before could reveal anything...*
PM plx? :heh:
I wasn't expecting Ginga to be beaten like that without showing us the painful details, oh well...
I was actually, if we don't know what happened while Subaru is racing, it's more dramatical.
HOLY FRIKIN CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK I don't even know where to start or what to think about that one. This is probably for me at least one of the most shocking ep to date. we have main characters dieing (Starts sobbing at the sight of Rein), Subaru being an Cyborg, RF6 getting beat Hard!, Ginga looking almost dead (and possabily kidnapped), Erio getting stomped, Caro bring out the BIG Guns in a fit of rage, there so so much here I think I am going to go sit in the corner staring off into space completely white eyed for a while....
@Chaos how can you :) at Vivio being kidnapped :frustrated::upset:
Nightengale
2007-07-23, 00:50
HOLY FRIKIN CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK I don't even know where to start or what to think about that one. This is probably for me at least one of the most shocking ep to date. we have main characters dieing (Starts sobbing at the sight of Rein), Subaru being an Cyborg, RF6 getting beat Hard!, Ginga looking almost dead (and possabily kidnapped), Erio getting stomped, Caro bring out the BIG Guns in a fit of rage, there so so much here I think I am going to go sit in the corner staring off into space completely white eyed for a while....
@Chaos how can you :) at Vivio being kidnapped :frustrated::upset:
There's no way Rein's dead. Sound Stage 3 : Episode 18.5 is about her after all. And there's no way it could end without a proper Agito/Rein battle with more worthy opponents...like Signum/Hayate.
And Chaos isn't the only one grinning from the sight of Vivio being kidnapped... This episode had me in stitches the entire way, watching RF6 getting wtfpwned. About damn time. :)
Burner of Anime
2007-07-23, 00:51
Next upgrade for the Number Girls: Anti-stealth/decoy sensors. In fact, Dr J should have installed one after the last fake and switch episode :heh: So much for being the smart mad scientist when his crew falls for the same trick twice.
And Chaos isn't the only one grinning from the sight of Vivio being kidnapped... This episode had me in stitches the entire way, watching RF6 getting wtfpwned. About damn time. :)
The drama in this episode was enough to make me forget I feel terribly sick at the moment. Vivio's capture was expected, but Subaru's "Gin-nee kaise!" and still getting beaten up is absolutely the peak of StrikerS drama at this moment! Hospitalized Nanoha flashbacks got nothing on this episode. :D
There's no way Rein's dead. Sound Stage 3 : Episode 18.5 is about her after all. And there's no way it could end without a proper Agito/Rein battle with more worthy opponents...like Signum/Hayate.
thanks for informing me (I speak like 0 Japaneses so i don't listen to the sound stages >< )
Edit
The drama in this episode was enough to make me forget I feel terribly sick at the moment. Vivio's capture was expected, but Subaru's "Gin-nee kaise!" and still getting beaten up is absolutely the peak of StrikerS drama at this moment! Hospitalized Nanoha flashbacks got nothing on this episode. :D
I hope you get better soon. For me that whole section of Subaru's rage and still getting beat put my jaw on the floor. Drama = going in full force, I agree that Nanoha flash back got nothing on this at all.
Darco_emp
2007-07-23, 00:58
There's no way Rein's dead. Sound Stage 3 : Episode 18.5 is about her after all. And there's no way it could end without a proper Agito/Rein battle with more worthy opponents...like Signum/Hayate.
And Chaos isn't the only one grinning from the sight of Vivio being kidnapped... This episode had me in stitches the entire way, watching RF6 getting wtfpwned. About damn time. :)
I could see Signum take on Zest, Since they are so similar, However Hayate should be only be pulling up the big guns over Jail's to leave it in ruins.
While it is sad such a defenseless and moe loli like Vivio got kidnaped, however it does give the chance for Nanoha and Fate to strengthen their bonds in time of crisis :heh:.
LoweGear
2007-07-23, 01:02
thanks for informing me (I speak like 0 Japaneses so i don't listen to the sound stages >< )
Even without the japanese, it's still easy to see that Rein's just badly beaten up :heh::upset:
I hope you get better soon. For me that whole section of Subaru's rage and still getting beat put my jaw on the floor. Drama = going in full force, I agree that Nanoha flash back got nothing on this at all.
Technically though, she wasn't defeated, she just didn't win, since Cinque got whisked away by Sei at the last second. But still, HOTBLOODED Subaru is One Thousand Different Kinds of Awesome! :D
This was an interesting episode, with a lot of plot twists...
I suspect Scagletti's gonna use Vivio for something concerning destroying something...I was surprised at what happened to Subaru, that was unexpected. Her berserk mode scares me....now, I wonder what's gonna happen.....
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-23, 01:05
PM plx? :heh:
*Signal you to cut me loose*
I was actually, if we don't know what happened while Subaru is racing, it's more dramatical.
Hmm,I guess, but it would seem abit ... 'all of a sudden'...
@Chaos how can you :) at Vivio being kidnapped :frustrated::upset:
Chaos is 90% practical, 10% sentimental :)
And Chaos isn't the only one grinning from the sight of Vivio being kidnapped... This episode had me in stitches the entire way, watching RF6 getting wtfpwned. About damn time. :)
Erm, YAH! Same reason as you :) (:uhoh:)
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-23, 01:13
Next upgrade for the Number Girls: Anti-stealth/decoy sensors. In fact, Dr J should have installed one after the last fake and switch episode :heh: So much for being the smart mad scientist when his crew falls for the same trick twice.
Well, in both cases it didn't screw up his plans completely :heh:
While it is sad such a defenseless and moe loli like Vivio got kidnaped, however it does give the chance for Nanoha and Fate to strengthen their bonds in time of crisis :heh:.
VERY important Friend... FRIEND... :D
I suspect Scagletti's gonna use Vivio for something concerning destroying something...I was surprised at what happened to Subaru, that was unexpected. Her berserk mode scares me....now, I wonder what's gonna happen.....
The wings...
Say... there's a bluebird in the ending right... :uhoh:
*Signal you to cut me loose*
*cut's chaos loose* Now gief PM plx!
I hope you get better soon. For me that whole section of Subaru's rage and still getting beat put my jaw on the floor. Drama = going in full force, I agree that Nanoha flash back got nothing on this at all.
Thanks.
I certainly do hope that things won't 'calm down' so to say, any more then neccisary. Too much calming down would not make sense, and get a filler like feeling.
It's odd though, weren't the "wings" supposed to appear before the tower went down?
Erm, YAH! Same reason as you :) (:uhoh:)Ah... We're not alone. I was laughing at Regius all the way. His face made my day. :D
Nanoha was noticibly missing for the entire episode. That carrying Teana thing kept her busy. I'm sure if she was at any of the major plot turning events, it would've turned out otherwise. It's obvious what the creators are doing here.
Vivio's loss was... regrettable. But the thorn in the eye of the [deleted] is gone!
"Get ready men. It's going to be a wild night." - Leonidas
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-23, 01:44
It's odd though, weren't the "wings" supposed to appear before the tower went down?
Well, I haven't watched the episode yet, but was the tower down? Is Ground Forces scattered, lost, and confuse without leaders?
FlareKnight
2007-07-23, 01:47
Well should be interesting to see the aftermath. A lot of emotions are going to be flying around after all. Everyone will feel the loss of Vivio especially Nanoha and Fate. Zafira and Shamal got seriously injured out there. Eisen got busted up so Vita will be upset, and throw in Rein being hurt and it's a lot of drama there. Subaru of course being a cyborg, and the question of whether she was even aware of this could be a serious issue. Not to mention Ginga hurt and captured.
Signum upset she completely missed the actoin :). But really Caro, Erio, and Teana will all probably feel that they couldn't do anything. Really the fact is they lost big time and no doubt next week is heavily going to be them trying to deal with this and plan their next move. Of course heavily will center on recovering Ginga and Vivio.
Was wondering how Chaos felt about mode 2 being a mass of boosters. Guess it's a way to fly without the magic and of course it didn't get used in a victory. Still felt a bit like Vita's rocket hammer move.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-23, 01:52
Ah... We're not alone. I was laughing at Regius all the way. His face made my day. :D
Looking forward to it :D
Nanoha was noticibly missing for the entire episode. That carrying Teana thing kept her busy. I'm sure if she was at any of the major plot turning events, it would've turned out otherwise. It's obvious what the creators are doing here.
What could she possibly be doing all that time :heh:
Vivio's loss was... regrettable. But the thorn in the eye of the [deleted] is gone!
"Get ready men. It's going to be a wild night." - Leonidas
*Cough*
What the [What's your title again?] is trying to say is that Vivio serves her purpose to the plot better when she's GONE and AWAY FROM her mamas.
With RF6, she's just an accessory.
Village Idiot
2007-07-23, 01:52
It's odd though, weren't the "wings" supposed to appear before the tower went down?
Does the big ****ing Dragon count as Wings?
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-23, 01:54
Was wondering how Chaos felt about mode 2 being a mass of boosters. Guess it's a way to fly without the magic and of course it didn't get used in a victory. Still felt a bit like Vita's rocket hammer move.
I feel confuse and cheated of my feelings... That it's just a way for Caro to show off.
Does the big ****ing Dragon count as Wings?
In my opinion that's not even a dragon >_<
Darco_emp
2007-07-23, 02:06
Wing is related to the death of the King, Which did not happen as far as I can see. Tower was refering to the third line, while the physical tower did not fall, I think the structure of command in the ground force have been dealt heavy damage. I'll looking forward to Regius having a breakdown...
As Kha said, The Dragon is more like a Mech, and prehaps it is...
I also wonder did Tea know that Subaru is part machine...
ImClueless
2007-07-23, 02:29
Finally, the all action episode that has been awaited for a long time and it does not disappoint.
There is nothing more fearsome than a mother defending its child. Vivio has 2 Mamas.....the bad guys will regret taking her.
Noo Ginga my favorite side character!!
This is something i don't say often, but damn - this episode was freaking awesome!. Subaru turning out to be a cyborg was expected, but damn - her berserk mode is scary and kicks behind on a whole another level. Ginga ... cyborg as expected as well, but ... did they really stick Ginga in that puny trunk ? 0_O I'll concur with Subaru: "Gin-nee kaise!!"
Zest beating Vita out of unison mode ... just how strong is he ? 0_o ... ok, i understand he used a move that is a double edged sword, but still ... he must be way above S to pull that of, considering that unison Vita is, probably, no less than S herself.
Strada's second form was not what i expected, but i have to admit it is practical ... too bad Erio was outnumbered :) Caro going berserk and summoning her little guardian 'dragon' ... remind me to never anger Caro :uhoh: I get the feeling that thing alone could level the whole TSAB. I am not exactly happy with the timing they used for Erio's flashback, but oh well - a minor nitpick.
This is the first time i feel like Giving a StrikerS episode a 10 (first time i feel it deserves more than 8 actually), and that is my rating for today :)
On a side note - where are all of the TSAB forces ? Did they ALL get wiped out already ? Even if the ground HQ didn't take any additional measures there had to be quite the sizable amount of soldiers stationed, no ?
Oh well ... lots of angst incoming next episode, but this was pure gold on several levels.
On a side note - where are all of the TSAB forces ? Did they ALL get wiped out already ? Even if the ground HQ didn't take any additional measures there had to be quite the sizable amount of soldiers stationed, no ?
Remember, Reguis denied funding to the ground forces to allow the ground forces to train in anti-AMF tactics. In other words: They got WTFPWNED by the AMF wielding drones.
hey should have shown that, really. :D
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-23, 03:18
Remember, Reguis denied funding to the ground forces to allow the ground forces to train in anti-AMF tactics. In other words: They got WTFPWNED by the AMF wielding drones.
hey should have showed that, really. :D
All the money must have went to their superweapon-in-progress...
He was probably hoping the enemy won't figure it out until it's ready :heh:
On a side note - where are all of the TSAB forces ? Did they ALL get wiped out already ? Even if the ground HQ didn't take any additional measures there had to be quite the sizable amount of soldiers stationed, no? Don't try to explain things rationally, this is Nanoha, and in Nanoha nameless grunts exist only for the purpose of getting owned and make the main cast look good.
Anyway, I'm late to the party, but this episode feels like A's episode 1, with actual battles, defeats and drama, and all the good guys introduced at least (I mean, with who they are revealed at least).
We can now begin the sequence where the RF6, motivated by its defeat, drops the training and goes to do actual work in the field.
Now that the new recruits begin to reveal the hack abilities they have (next are Erio and Tea), we can maybe expect some serious battle which would include the Aces, it's a bit irritating to see how blatantly the animators are trying to keep them from the action at all cost.
Keeping with Nanoha's tradition, we have to have antagonists that the heroes want to talk to/rescue before taking down. Would Ginga and Vivio fit that bill? The numbers at the moment are just cannon fodder, but what would happen if the mysterious numbers were actually someone like Subaru's mother or a cyborged Alicia?
This episode also threw out of the window any hope of Earth/Onsen sequence. Zafira will never talk again, and the rest of the old cast won't even appear. Nice touch that for once the planet in peril isn't the Earth at all.
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-07-23, 04:23
I guess we could call Subaru the real hero in this episode.
She tried all her might to save her beloved sister, but was defeat. I must see this episode!
Forgot to note about Erio's second form. Looks like there are boosters everywhere and maybe that's why Teana said its "complicated". I don't really see how its overpowered though. It looks the same as it's first form, but maybe all those crazy angles and turns that Erio can now do with second form will show how its overpowered.
RF6 is defeated and I wonder if Chrono even knows about this.
Just for everyone's information, Strada used 2 NEW forms in this episode, not one new. When Erio used "Thundar Rage" (... Thunder Rage in name only, Erio's Thunder Rage is nothing like Fate's, not in the least), Strada cried out "Form Drei" and then the mode's name.
Remember, Reguis denied funding to the ground forces to allow the ground forces to train in anti-AMF tactics. In other words: They got WTFPWNED by the AMF wielding drones.
hey should have shown that, really. :DRemember that SEELE image? What if it was Scagletti, Noube and one other Number masquerading as some secret super-commander in the TSAB, and Regius buys it, thus they have the GF comander, always eager for power, barking like a dog for them and denying Mid Childa of their last line of defence?
I wanna see his face turn even more crumpled if that is true! :D
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-07-23, 04:57
episode 17 being filled with so much epic-ness, not so surprising that youtube had clips of Numbers vs. Forwards, Caro's Voltaire summon, and of course, Subaru's berserker mode rush!
man, this was one bad day for RF6, so much destruction done to TSAB and RF6's members.
Subaru got messed up big time!
FOUR CARTRIDGE LOADS IN ONE TIME!! WOW THATS POWERFUL and yet, still couldn't beat Nouve.
I liked the part when Nouve and Subaru contacted on both their kicks. Nice animation there!!:)
So thats Voltaire huh...THATS ONE HUGE DRAGON!
and Erio's second form is really something...those boosters can really do some good maneuvers in battle.
Teana did some Kage bushin action to confuse the numbers...and of course, with the help of Caro boosting up her powers.
And yes, I think Rob the Fox was correct. Strada pulled off two modes...one especially made for Thunder Rage...Strada was a little different in design when Erio executed that attack.
Nouve and Subaru will certainly have a rematch soon...and dual wielding for Subaru also!
"GIN-NEE, KAISE!!!!!!"
EDIT: this is just a hunch, but Vice did go to retirement after he messed up his sniper shot and accidentally killed a little girl by a shot to her eye...
The number with the eye patch (dont know her name, but her number is 5) could she be that person that Vice shot??
Ottocycle
2007-07-23, 05:13
Remember that SEELE image? What if it was Scagletti, Noube and one other Number masquerading as some secret super-commander in the TSAB, and Regius buys it, thus they have the GF comander, always eager for power, barking like a dog for them and denying Mid Childa of their last line of defence?
I wanna see his face turn even more crumpled if that is true! :D
Let's go full circle and make Einherjar=Numbers, Client=Regius then.
Can't wait for the day Regius in the orz position, when it all goes to hell.
Nightengale
2007-07-23, 05:16
episode 17 being filled with so much epic-ness, not so surprising that youtube had clips of Numbers vs. Forwards, Caro's Voltaire summon, and of course, Subaru's berserker mode rush!
man, this was one bad day for RF6, so much destruction done to TSAB and RF6's members.
Subaru got messed up big time!
FOUR CARTRIDGE LOADS IN ONE TIME!! WOW THATS POWERFUL and yet, still couldn't beat Nouve.
I liked the part when Nouve and Subaru contacted on both their kicks. Nice animation there!!:)
So thats Voltaire huh...THATS ONE HUGE DRAGON!
and Erio's second form is really something...those boosters can really do some good maneuvers in battle.
Teana did some Kage bushin action to confuse the numbers...and of course, with the help of Caro boosting up her powers.
And yes, I think Rob the Fox was correct. Strada pulled off two modes...one especially made for Thunder Rage...Strada was a little different in design when Erio executed that attack.
Nouve and Subaru will certainly have a rematch soon...and dual wielding for Subaru also!
"GIN-NEE, KAISE!!!!!!"
EDIT: this is just a hunch, but Vice did go to retirement after he messed up his sniper shot and accidentally killed a little girl by a shot to her eye...
The number with the eye patch (dont know her name, but her number is 5) could she be that person that Vice shot??
I'd think a Ginga vs Subaru rematch would be more likely... and more epic. Think of the level of angst and drama that would invoke. :(
And highly doubtful for the Vice one. First off, it was a different eye that got shot compared to No.V and the loli's hairstyle and look are different as well.
@humbug LOL... if you put it that way, it's ingenious. Jail was getting fundings from something that was supposed to protect GC, and like a good salesman, he shows the fruits of his labor and his sponsor's cash...by giving a literal demonstration to the sponsor. Man, if that's true, that's twisted as hell.
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-07-23, 05:22
I'd think a Ginga vs Subaru rematch would be more likely... and more epic. Think of the level of angst and drama that would invoke. :(
And highly doubtful for the Vice one. First off, it was a different eye that got shot compared to No.V and the loli's hairstyle and look are different as well.
awww, well it was only clips of highlights in this episode, so I wouldn't know how Vice's past was shown...oh wells, it was just a hunch anyways.
But Subaru vs. Nouve rematch would be good.
of course, if Ginga turns evil, then its Subaru vs. Ginga...I wouldn't be surprise if they both destroy each other and Ginga gaining her memory back again after all of that...that would be an epic ending to that fight, but we would lose two great characters in the process.:(
Darco_emp
2007-07-23, 05:27
I'd think a Ginga vs Subaru rematch would be more likely... and more epic. Think of the level of angst and drama that would invoke. :(
While it does indeed invoke a certain level of angst however isn't the plot a bit over used... I'm more in faviour of blast in and save Nee-chan route
And highly doubtful for the Vice one. First off, it was a different eye that got shot compared to No.V and the loli's hairstyle and look are different as well.
I do have to agree here, I also if she is the same girl I think she would be in the MD6's attack group then to add to the effect. Besides I doubt we'll see anymore fighting from Vice, side characters are meant to be sharfted after all :heh:
Let's go full circle and make Einherjar=Numbers, Client=Regius then.
That actually makes sense considering what Einherjar are in Norse myth. I wouldn't be surprised.
Nightengale
2007-07-23, 05:28
If there was one thing I really disliked about this episode (( putting aside the nobody dies thing )), it was how the Vice/Elio scene was handled. And to a lesser extent, Voltaire showing up just to pwn drones, and that's it.
It felt...jumped-on and forced. Like 'lol see here and that is how the cookies crumbles' kind of exposition. Granted, if we see more of it in the future, (( doubtful for Vice )), then it's okay, but overall...compared to the slowly, better paced backstory of Teana and Subaru, it felt...less powerful and developed.
I sincerely hope that is not how they intend to cover or develop any more back stories in the coming episodes.
While it does indeed invoke a certain level of angst however isn't the plot a bit over used...
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Though honestly, I'd rather Subaru/Ginga's mom turn out to Number II or something.
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-07-23, 05:33
all three of the numbers that were going up against Subaru wouldn't have stand a chance against her if "Number 5" hadn't came up with the idea of "I hold her off while you guys run off with the captured victim".
Heck, "Number 5" would have gotten killed right there and then if Sein didn't come in and saved her butt.
Subaru went all out on this one and I give her credit for that, even after having her cyborg arm dangling and busted up.
all three of the numbers that were going up against Subaru wouldn't have stand a chance against her if "Number 5" hadn't came up with the idea of "I hold her off while you guys run off with the captured victim".
Heck, "Number 5" would have gotten killed right there and then if Sein didn't come in and saved her butt.
Subaru went all out on this one and I give her credit for that, even after having her cyborg arm dangling and busted up.
Number 5 is called Cinque. And I like the way she looks, eyepatches always look cool when given the proper atmosphere and personality.
Ottocycle
2007-07-23, 05:37
@humbug LOL... if you put it that way, it's ingenious. Jail was getting fundings from something that was supposed to protect GC, and like a good salesman, he shows the fruits of his labor and his sponsor's cash...by giving a literal demonstration to the sponsor. Man, if that's true, that's twisted as hell.
Remember in ep15, Regius was inquiring to Auris about the progress of the Einherjar project. Goes to show she is put wholly in charge of the project and Regius doesn't know a single thing. But she definitely wouldn't know a thing about the status of the Numbers' production, except if she, or someone under her is II(Duo was it?).
Working even better for our Doctor is that the Einherjar project needs to be top secret, and of course would need to be situated in some desolate, uninhabited world. What irony would it be, for TSAB officers to be working in Jail's factories without even knowing it.
Guess the only thing working against this argument is how she is seemingly more benevolent towards RF6 than Regius, which will seem to be overturned next episode, looking at its preview.
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-07-23, 05:37
Number 5 is called Cinque. And I like the way she looks, eyepatches always look cool when given the proper atmosphere and personality.
oh ok thanks for the giving her name...:heh: hopefully thats the last of the numbers already...too many names and characters.
But I also like her too, she caught my eye in episode 16. The hair color and eye patch is what caught my attention. I wonder if there's a demon eye underneath that patch of hers...
EDIT: I guess the next question on everyone's mind is when will the new opening premiere...
Sigh...........it appear Erio would have a bleak future in the series
Kenji_Chaos
2007-07-23, 07:00
omg this episode rocks~!
wat's with the cyborg arm o.o
and y do they wan ginga o.O
Number 5 is called Cinque. And I like the way she looks, eyepatches always look cool when given the proper atmosphere and personality.Not to mention that she refers herself "姉" (Ane = Elder Sister) when she's talking with little sisters... quite unique, I must say :heh:
And Sei's "セインさん、到着！" was just... Sei, 空気読めwwwww
Anyway, Numbers seems to have quite a strong bond as sisters, wasting no seconds to go and help each other from close situation.
Hell, even Quattro, who doesn't look to be a type to help others, did her best to take Deici with her in EP12.
I wonder what made them so strongly bonded like that... they're all from same orphanage or something like that?
It'd be rather tragedic if they were simply programed to be so...
As you may have noticed, so does anons of 2ch spoiler thread, that these Magazine Previews were a bit off from how actual episode turned out.
At least Newtype previews are available on web, so we can be certain that at least one magazine had "off" preview...
I wonder if that's mistake on magazine writers side, or there's something else...
Deathkillz
2007-07-23, 07:54
there are always 2 sides to a story...and somehow i would like to take a look at the "life of a number" in that sense from their perspective cause clearly the are only acting on orders from Dr Spaghetti and are thus free of evil intentions themselves...to the numbers the aces and forwards are just another enemy they have to defeat to fulfill their "aim?" (do they even have one? i guess lutecia might have something planned out) ~ but their friendship bond are that of what the forwards and aces feel...sisterly love is sweet :)
Aaron008R
2007-07-23, 08:04
Just had the chance to watch aroduc's video clips(no speakers, though:upset:)...
Subaru and Caro went EXTREME here!:twitch:
It's been a while since I've seen a DBZ-esque power up.:heh:
And damn, Voltaire was darned powerful!:eek: That fire attack looks more powerful than the triple Breaker shown in episode 12 of A's:twitch:
Let's go full circle and make Einherjar=Numbers, Client=Regius then.
Can't wait for the day Regius in the orz position, when it all goes to hell.
That would put a massive spin on things..:heh: I wouldn't mind it going like that though.
Saw the ep earlier today..
HOLY SHIT that was good.
The action that we've all been waiting for has arrived in a massive way.
Next week is going to be awesome hopefully.
Nightengale
2007-07-23, 08:37
Not to mention that she refers herself "姉" (Ane = Elder Sister) when she's talking with little sisters... quite unique, I must say :heh:
And Sei's "セインさん、到着！" was just... Sei, 空気読めwwwww
Anyway, Numbers seems to have quite a strong bond as sisters, wasting no seconds to go and help each other from close situation.
Hell, even Quattro, who doesn't look to be a type to help others, did her best to take Deici with her in EP12.
I wonder what made them so strongly bonded like that... they're all from same orphanage or something like that?
It'd be rather tragedic if they were simply programed to be so...
Well, since a part of the their programming allows them to incorporate data from earlier datas accumulated from their sisters, (( rookie VII performing decently against 10-year veteran Fate )) maybe it allows them to mutually share something more than just...data. Memories, experiences, stuff... coupled with individual personality, it makes up for a kind of unique relationship.
And in honesty, it's hard to see III and VII's reaction against Fate's "STFU" as something programmed, considering how even the all business slightly bitchy III looked politely sad at Fate's dismissal of her pseudo-birth father. That'd make things a little interesting, especially if despite their not-no-beautiful relationship, the Numbers sincerely consider Jail as their father, like how Fate even till the end of Season I was willing to fight for Precia's sake, if only she didn't... you know, stay a bitch even at the very end.
Dark Wing
2007-07-23, 08:39
Oh I can see it now Eiro laying at Caor's feet bloody and half died, falling to her knees as tears swell in her eyes, then screaming in rage as the sky opens up reveling the dreaded Red-eyed, fire breathing, ebony scaled behemoth. Ready to reduce every thing in it's path to ashes....Exciting isn't it.:D
I guess my prediction pretty much came true...but the whole Subaru/Ginga being cyborgs thing totally caught me off guard.:heh:
After reading the spoilers,I have to say that Dr Scaggy might not be a one sided villian.
I think he had a personal vendetta against TSAB or witnessed some of the artocies TSAB commited while units like the RF6 didn't know about it,that led him to hate the TSAB.
Also antiheros like Light and Lelouch laughed sometimes after they succeded in doing their objectives.
I guess by the end of strikerS,people living in dimensions and areas under TSAB's control will be revolting against TSAB's rule and that might most like be the plotline for a possible season,which involves RF6 cleaning up the mess.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-23, 09:17
@Cloudy
One problem with that theory, his only vendetta is that the TSAB doesn't let him carry out his research. He didn't say anything about oppression or any other crimes. In the case of Lelouch, at least it was a fight against against a cruel power.
This is a case of greedy.
An Hero in Disguise
2007-07-23, 09:30
@Cloudy
One problem with that theory, his only vendetta is that the TSAB doesn't let him carry out his research. He didn't say anything about oppression or any other crimes. In the case of Lelouch, at least it was a fight against against a cruel power.
This is a case of greedy.
Objection! It's not clearly stated that Doc only conducts his forbidden research for his own sake. He may as well work for the common good. And it's unknown what made him turn to the world of crime to begin with.
Objection! It's not clearly stated that Doc only conducts his forbidden research for his own sake. He may as well work for the common good. And it's unknown what made him turn to the world of crime to begin with.
I think we are looking at a Precia type character. Someone who started of with noble goals, but slowly turned to more and more desperate measures, untill they beca such that they endangered the lives of thousands, if not milions.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-23, 09:37
Objection! It's not clearly stated that Doc only conducts his forbidden research for his own sake. He may as well work for the common good. And it's unknown what made him turn to the world of crime to begin with.
You see, the keyword here is 'forbidden' ...
As far as I know, it's not a single 'forbidden' practice know to man, be it reality or fiction, that is disallowed for no reason.
An Hero in Disguise
2007-07-23, 09:40
I think we are looking at a Precia type character. Someone who started of with noble goals, but slowly turned to more and more desperate measures, untill they beca such that they endangered the lives of thousands, if not milions.
It's possible. But Precia only needed JS power for herself, while Doc may have noble goals of mankind's further development, hindered by TSAB, who prefer sealing LL instead of researching them, ban promising technologies etc.
Nightengale
2007-07-23, 09:40
You see, the keyword here is 'forbidden' ...
As far as I know, it's not a single 'forbidden' practice know to man, be it reality or fiction, that is put up for no reason.
Well, unless there's more to Project F than what season I implies, it's clearly not meant to be a weapon-development project, and Jail was the important honcho in developing its concept...
Ideas like resurrection through memory imprinting and cloning, however illegal they may be, isn't exactly something purely evil...
An Hero in Disguise
2007-07-23, 09:44
You see, the keyword here is 'forbidden' ...
As far as I know, it's not a single 'forbidden' practice know to man, be it reality or fiction, that is put up for no reason.
Giordano Bruno was burned for his forbidden research. History has many examples when something is forbidden unrighteously.
Well, unless there's more to Project F than what season I implies, it's clearly not meant to be a weapon-development project, and Jail was the important honcho in developing its concept...
Ideas like resurrection through memory imprinting and cloning, however illegal they may be, isn't exactly something purely evil...The thing is, it opens up a can of ethical worms that our world currently is just not ready to deal with the grotesque slippery slope of consequences, and it seems that Mid Childa buys that idea and that's why they are doing what they do...
Remember the Raelian cloners from our world? They went as far as to claim that they've created the world's first Fate Testarossa, and they were dismissed and cracked down upon. I think Scagletti is facing this fate, though he's much more successful at evading the hunters.
There's a thin line between genius and madness, and it's social acceptance. Villians like this can only be prosecuted for the fallout of their actions, not their research. That's the only way I can say how I'd press charges against Scagletti.
arkhangelsk
2007-07-23, 09:47
Let's see, slavery, lack of woman's suffrage until the 20th century, racial segregation, right to free speech ... etc. Inquisitions, Gaileo's house arrest ... etc. The list of things that (at least by our modern understanding) should be allowed but weren't literally fills our history with black spots.
Not that I personally think Scarlietti is meant to be good. In fact, they seem to have gone out of the way to make him a character you will hate and won't feel the slightest shred of sadness at seeing him die. That nasty, evil laugh and the rhetorical images used in Ep 17 all suggest this.
Wonder what forbidden research did Giordano Bruno did during the course of history.
Now strikerS is like most of TV series and movies out there,showing parallel of the war against terror.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-23, 09:50
Well, unless there's more to Project F than what season I implies, it's clearly not meant to be a weapon-development project, and Jail was the important honcho in developing its concept...
Ideas like resurrection through memory imprinting and cloning, however illegal they may be, isn't exactly something purely evil...
Forbbiden doesn't always mean pure evil, but it's not one that makes people feel all comfortable either.
Giordano Bruno was burned for his forbidden research. History has many examples when something is forbidden unrighteously.
Unrighteous... Did he also threaten to destroy his countries military?
Let's see, slavery, lack of woman's suffrage until the 20th century, racial segregation, right to free speech ... etc. Inquisitions, Gaileo's house arrest ... etc. The list of things that (at least by our modern understanding) should be allowed but weren't literally fills our history with black spots.
Not that I personally think Scarlietti is meant to be good. In fact, they seem to have gone out of the way to make him a character you will hate and won't feel the slightest shred of sadness at seeing him die. That nasty, evil laugh and the rhetorical images used in Ep 17 all suggest this.Yes that's the point of the matter.
"Genius and Madness is only separated by degrees of social acceptance."
History shows how unreliable that is, and only the future is in the position to judge this man's research. However, I am certain they will condemn his wanton and unnecessary acts of treachery. If he was purely doing research and not overtly sabotaging public order, I don't think he'd be a that big a villian, just an annoying rascal researcher like the Raelians.
An Hero in Disguise
2007-07-23, 09:53
Wonder what forbidden research did Giordano Bruno did during the course of history.
Now strikerS is like most of TV series and movies out there,showing parallel of the war against terror.
Charges against Giordano Bruno:
1. Holding opinions contrary to the Catholic Faith and speaking against it and its ministers.
2. Holding erroneous opinions about the Trinity, about Christ's divinity and Incarnation.
3. Holding erroneous opinions about Christ.
4. Holding erroneous opinions about Transubstantiation and Mass.
5. Claiming the existence of a plurality of worlds and their eternity.
6. Believing in metempsychosis and in the transmigration of the human soul into brutes.
7. Dealing in magics and divination.
8. Denying the Virginity of Mary.
LoweGear
2007-07-23, 09:54
There's a thin line between genius and madness, and it's social acceptance. Villians like this can only be prosecuted for the fallout of their actions, not their research. That's the only way I can say how I'd press charges against Scagletti.
"No matter how noble your intentions were, the horrible end is all that matters"? I think a jury would find THAT guilty.
Only time will tell of course whether Scag's actions work for the betterment or detriment of Midchilda technological research, at which point his portrayal will depend on whether the good outweighs the bad.
Charges against Giordano Bruno:
1. Holding opinions contrary to the Catholic Faith and speaking against it and its ministers.
2. Holding erroneous opinions about the Trinity, about Christ's divinity and Incarnation.
3. Holding erroneous opinions about Christ.
4. Holding erroneous opinions about Transubstantiation and Mass.
5. Claiming the existence of a plurality of worlds and their eternity.
6. Believing in metempsychosis and in the transmigration of the human soul into brutes.
7. Dealing in magics and divination.
8. Denying the Virginity of Mary.A textbook example of the greyness in human judement. :)
Now if I stick my head out and say if Scag didn't go on smuggling raids that endangered lives I'd say he might just be able to not be a villian, albeit somewhat frowned upon.
EDIT: It really says something that a mahou shoujo that can bring up morality debates. :D
An Hero in Disguise
2007-07-23, 10:01
Forbbiden doesn't always mean pure evil, but it's not one that makes people feel all comfortable either.
Unrighteous... Did he also threaten to destroy his countries military?
"Not making feel comfortable" is kind of vague term. Regarding the question of ethics I think that science should be relatively free from it. As I see it TSAB is simply scared to let the technology develop based on the research of LL.
He had no power to do that. Also did Scaglietti have another choice to reach his goals?
Chaos2Frozen
2007-07-23, 10:03
I can't believe we even have to bring this up...
A man with known criminial records, who has in several occasion proven to be a threat to public safety, who has access to deadly weapons, who has no qualms with using them as he sees fit, who has destroyed government property...
SUDDENLY says that he's doing this for the sake of the people, SUDDENLY claims he doesn't want to hurt people, SUDDENLY state that the fault is with the Authorities...
And all of a sudden people 'understand' him? People 'forgive' him? People believe that he's 'misunderstood' ?
Thanks for the info,Hero in disguise.
Now we need a plot speculation thread and a morality thread like we found in deathnote and code geass sub forums.
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