Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll [Archive]

Skyfall

2007-07-29, 09:36

Welcome to the discussion thread for Nanoha, Episode 18.

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Adr 00

2007-07-29, 09:38

OOOOOHHHHHHHHH.........boy we are going to have a very emo episode with no action that would be a BBBBIIIGGG waste of time.

Deathkillz

2007-07-29, 09:53

cool off ep after the major failure to defend the base last time :/ im going to enjoy hearing what subaru has to say after that shock ~ ginga~nee :sad:

Keroko

2007-07-29, 09:59

I'm going to enjoy the other forward's reaction to Subaru being an android, not to mention the explanation of the 'how' and the 'why'. There will be plenty of plot info becomming aparant in this episode.

Adr 00

2007-07-29, 10:04

Well good for you guys,but i really couldnt take it.The first 2 seasons had 3 fights between parties.but since this had 26 episodes i expected at least 4 fights including the final boss fight.

Keroko

2007-07-29, 10:06

The story behind this season is a lot more complicated then the one in A's. If the focuss would be on fighting alone from this point, a lot of questions would remain unanswered.

blitz1/2

2007-07-29, 10:08

If there is no new OP, I'm gonna freak.

Adr 00

2007-07-29, 10:10

The story behind this season is a lot more complicated then the one in A's. If the focuss would be on fighting alone from this point, a lot of questions would remain unanswered.

True,but still there got be some action.Dont leave Ginga alone in there!

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 10:11

Well good for you guys,but i really couldnt take it.The first 2 seasons had 2 fights between parties.but since this had 26 episodes i expected at least 4 fights including the final boss fight.

Er... at this pace of things, it's almost guarenteed we'll get at least 2 more fights.

We'll definitely get another battle episode or something within 4 episodes time at the very least, and of course, the obligatory final fight.

While there are still plot-elements left unsolved, the build-up is almost complete now with character-based revelations on the good-side of the cast. Once we get some gist on Subaru, all that's really left is Project F-Fate-Elio, Vivio/King/Vessel, LAZ backstory, Jail-Numbers backstory, and if it comes to it, Client. So long as things are balanced between fight scenes and explanatory in-betweens, it seems appropriate. 9 episodes isn't very long, but so long it doesn't pull the slow pace of early StrikerS, it's strong enough to pack in a LOT of things. Take a look at Gurren Lagann for example. Fast pace is FAST.

The biggest worry, really is only the Client. If they want to make Client the final boss with epic proportions (( well developed, solid cast of villains, motives, along with a solid build-up )), it may be worrisome considering how much it's been Jail-Numbers centric and not Client. And I expect Jailism for another 3 to 4 episodes at least, which leaves only 5 more for Client.

That of course, ONLY IF Client is revelant to the StrikerS storyline. Otherwise, it's perfectly acceptable.

FlareKnight

2007-07-29, 10:12

At least I think we're at a point where a new OP will be alright. Got through the major event of the capturing, and Subaru/Ginga being androids. So now is a fine time to pull that out.

I'm interested myself in seeing how they regroup. Of course I'd like it to be a fairly quick one so they can move forward after the Doctor. But dealing with Subaru's background (for those unaware), Vivio's capture, Rein+Zafira+Shamal+Eisen being injured. Of course I'd love more fights but that will probably have to wait until the next episode.

Keroko

2007-07-29, 10:17

True,but still there got be some action.Dont leave Ginga alone in there!

Ginga = plot development. Therefore, episode 18 very well could have Ginga.

Kha

2007-07-29, 10:17

I guess it's the end of the silly Limiters yes? The Devil is REBORN! :D

asaqe

2007-07-29, 10:20

Now, we may get to see Vivio and Subaru in a glass jar today...

Adr 00

2007-07-29, 10:21

I guess it's the end of the silly Limiters yes? The Devil is REBORN! :D

If Nanoha manages to get into the action at all.

Adr 00

2007-07-29, 10:26

Er... at this pace of things, it's almost guarenteed we'll get at least 2 more fights.

We'll definitely get another battle episode or something within 4 episodes time at the very least, and of course, the obligatory final fight.

While there are still plot-elements left unsolved, the build-up is almost complete now with character-based revelations on the good-side of the cast. Once we get some gist on Subaru, all that's really left is Project F-Fate-Elio, Vivio/King/Vessel, LAZ backstory, Jail-Numbers backstory, and if it comes to it, Client. So long as things are balanced between fight scenes and explanatory in-betweens, it seems appropriate. 9 episodes isn't very long, but so long it doesn't pull the slow pace of early StrikerS, it's strong enough to pack in a LOT of things. Take a look at Gurren Lagann for example. Fast pace is FAST.

The biggest worry, really is only the Client. If they want to make Client the final boss with epic proportions (( well developed, solid cast of villains, motives, along with a solid build-up )), it may be worrisome considering how much it's been Jail-Numbers centric and not Client. And I expect Jailism for another 3 to 4 episodes at least, which leaves only 5 more for Client.

That of course, ONLY IF Client is revelant to the StrikerS storyline. Otherwise, it's perfectly acceptable.

Hmm maybe a few numbers need to killed off in this ep

arkhangelsk

2007-07-29, 10:32

Why? Why do you feel so much like killing them off? I'm just starting to sympathize with them!

Adr 00

2007-07-29, 10:34

Why? Why do you feel so much like killing them off? I'm just starting to sympathize with them!

There simply too many characters.And due to their function and alignment they have to die to maintain the pace of the show.

arkhangelsk

2007-07-29, 10:45

Well, there's always offing one of the Wolkenritter. Poor Hayate will be devastated, but the power of the Linker Core can be recovered, bring her up to full SSS, and be the decisive factor which allows for the offing of the final villain of the series. And we'd get that nice "sacrifice" feel.

No, seriously, I'm not for killing anyone, except for Quattro and the Doc. They can off Zest if they have to, but that's it.

equinoxcluster

2007-07-29, 10:45

I wonder how Nanoha will be in this episode after learning about Vivio? (I'd hate to be on the wrong end of Nanoha-mama's and Fate-mama's devices)

FlareKnight

2007-07-29, 10:45

I'm sure Nanoha is going to get into the action. At the very least in the coming battles which are going to center about recovering those that have been captured recently.

There are so many numbers no one will notice if you kill a few off anyways. With them being the line of defence to the Doctor they have to go down. Maybe you can get away with a few surviving, but if you unleash the White Devil by kidnapping people then your safety is pretty much toast.

Deathkillz

2007-07-29, 10:47

I guess it's the end of the silly Limiters yes? The Devil is REBORN! :D
i bet the stubbon old fool still has something to say about that >_< "bla bla you are criminals bla bla"
Why? Why do you feel so much like killing them off? I'm just starting to sympathize with them!
cause its fun to see people die :) j/k
basically it just makes the whole ordeal more realistic...you cant expect fighting with no death toll...

Adr 00

2007-07-29, 10:47

I sincernly hope the 4th unknown faction that is smuggling the relics would be revealed in this one.

Darco_emp

2007-07-29, 11:06

I guess new OP is the main thing I'm hoping for... Since this is a recovery ep I'm expecting a depressed setting from all of MD6.

In terms of plot development I hope its not snail speed consider the amount needed to cover still, but in general I expect these kind of ep to be slow in that department, so I'm placing my hope in the new OP, if it comes...

Thisguy

2007-07-29, 11:41

One word: NEW OP!!!!111oneone

Other than that, connection is failing so I'm waiting for nico... damn.

Darco_emp

2007-07-29, 11:45

One word: NEW OP!!!!111oneone

Other than that, connection is failing so I'm waiting for nico... damn.

:D, Waiting here for nico too. Damn I need to see the new Op for myself.

Fabien

2007-07-29, 11:46

basically it just makes the whole ordeal more realistic...you cant expect fighting with no death toll...

There are two misconceptions about MGLN as a whole, and yet again I see them in this thread.
MGLN is definitely not realistic, and not an action anime.

In Gundam, yes, you can kill people at whim. Not in MGLN.

Kha

2007-07-29, 11:47

cause its fun to see people die :) j/k
basically it just makes the whole ordeal more realistic...you cant expect fighting with no death toll...Ah yes, a fellow Tomino-ist. :)

I sincernly hope the 4th unknown faction that is smuggling the relics would be revealed in this one.I did say before that it might just be Spagetti with 2 others masqurading as SEELE. :3

NEED THAT NEW OP!!! :D

blitz1/2

2007-07-29, 11:47

Hmm maybe a few numbers need to killed off in this ep

Not only Numbers! A few numbers and a few TSAB main characters could be killed off but not in this episode, but gradually.

Yeah, we're going to see Ginga and Vivio in glass jars. Lol!

asaqe

2007-07-29, 11:48

Alright, someone who thinks the same thing as I do!

Darco_emp

2007-07-29, 11:50

Looking over the screencaps, Looks like Nanoha found the bunny, now you just need to go berserk against those who damaged the bunny :heh:

Kha

2007-07-29, 11:53

Looking over the screencaps, Looks like Nanoha found the bunny, now you just need to go berserk against those who damaged the bunny :heh:*imagines Super Seiyan Nanoha*

:D

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 12:00

Oh god, OP2 hates the males. Only Zest got any respectable amount of showcase. (( With Signum )) And a little of Genya and Jail.

The hell? Even Due is hidden from the OP. Athra is clear in sight though. :D

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm727254

Here's the nico link for anyone who's got an account.

Fabien

2007-07-29, 12:03

if you unleash the White Devil

It's funny to see her called the White Devil, BTW. She did dispose of Reinforce I, at her own request. She knocked Fate and Tiana down, and it took them a few hours to recover. Oh, and she slapped Arisa, at age 6. What else did she do to get that nickname?

aers

2007-07-29, 12:03

Christ, like thisguy my connection failed horribly today (tbh I think I'm banned from the peercasts but anyway).

Nanoha losing her cool really freaked me out. The new OP is cool. That's about all I can say >_>

Only screencap I have related:

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7892/loldeadsh9.th.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=loldeadsh9.jpg)

Darco_emp

2007-07-29, 12:04

Oh god, OP2 hates the males. Only Zest got any respectable amount of showcase. (( With Signum )) And a little of Genya and Jail.

The hell? Even Due is hidden from the OP. Athra is clear in sight though. :D

I can live with the lack of males, indeed I can :heh:.

I miss Athra, Its good indeed to see its back.

Edit: Grrr... Vivio is crying... I wanna kill someone...., and finally we are going to have Signum vs Erio :D

Deathkillz

2007-07-29, 12:10

There are two misconceptions about MGLN as a whole, and yet again I see them in this thread.
MGLN is definitely not realistic, and not an action anime.

In Gundam, yes, you can kill people at whim. Not in MGLN.
why cant you kill people? how is it not realistic for people to die in fights like that? how is it not an action anime? it may not be all action but nonetheless action is appart of the genre ~ what i want to see is for this series to grow up from its roots from being "all happy go lucky friends" to something darker ~ (yes darker than seeing fate chan being tortured >_<)

edit: lol the new OP...i see nanoha going crazy XD and subaru going "kamehameha!!"

Thisguy

2007-07-29, 12:13

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm727254Hooray, Subaru is going all the way to teh protagonist :rolleyes:

Aside from every little implications in OP that may or may not have importance, the first shot of Subaru still has Velka circle under her...
Does that mean she won't use her IS and fight as a "human"?

krisslanza

2007-07-29, 12:16

Arrrgh I wanna see that video but I can't read enough japanese to navigate through a japanese site... *Cry, cry*

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 12:20

Hooray, Subaru is going all the way to teh protagonist :rolleyes:

Aside from every little implications in OP that may or may not have importance, the first shot of Subaru still has Velka circle under her...
Does that mean she won't use her IS and fight as a "human"?

If you're talking FIRST shot, there's clearly an IS circle behind her... but since her IS is h4xx against close-combat anything and Nove's her primary designated rival, I doubt she'll be using it much, if she can control it.

My biggest LOL was Alto (( I think )) taking over Vice's heli-pilot job. You had a good run, Vice. :heh:

Otherwise, the OP was very "conventionally boring". Nothing spoileric aside from Athra, there's no indication at all if the story will extend outside Mid-childa to TSA HQ, or anything. Heck, Due and Ginga are conveniently missing from the OP, and even the 'black thing' Nanoha faces in the OP cannot be seen clearly. And Fate isn't even facing her "rivals", spending time chopping up Drones in the lab. (( not even an indication, since Nanoha OP battle-scenes are quite random. ))

FlareKnight

2007-07-29, 12:34

Yeah we finally got the new OP that's for sure.

Well at least we've got some insights into matchups though some were predicted. Of course it seems Signum is going to be the next one to step up against Zest. Though he's using unison but I don't see anything to suggest Signum is going to require that same help. Which would make sense since Rein when she's able will probably be supporting Hayate. Plus the fight it seems of Caro vs Lutecia while Erio is going to get yet another shot against Garyuu (he's gotta win eventually right?)

Yep poor Vice. Maybe when they are getting the injured out he said something to warrant becoming a stain on Lavantine :heh:.

Deathkillz

2007-07-29, 12:39

My biggest LOL was Alto (( I think )) taking over Vice's heli-pilot job. You had a good run, Vice. :heh:

hinting that vice is out of the picture for good? :rolleyes: hope not as he is the only male i like form the series ~ imo he should go back to being an ace sniper :3

raidou

2007-07-29, 12:46

The OP shows how the mood going to be for the last 7 episode,very serious and gloomy.No more fun ><

Heck, Due and Ginga are conveniently missing from the OP, and even the 'black thing' Nanoha faces in the OP cannot be seen clearly. And Fate isn't even facing her "rivals", spending time chopping up Drones in the lab. (( not even an indication, since Nanoha OP battle-scenes are quite random. ))

Fate VS Drones inside the lab(full of life pods) probably indicate that her designated rivals would be Jail himself.Nanoha dark opponent might have something to do with Vivio :C

How about Teana's? Who is the other number beside Wendy,cant see clearly.Dodi?

Thisguy

2007-07-29, 12:56

How about Teana's? Who is the other number beside Wendy,cant see clearly.Dodi?Yep, it was Wendy and Deed (their official spellings are out @ official site, btw).
Also Teana seems to be able to control far more bullets than when she lost control at EP7, surely she's becoming something too.The OP shows how the mood going to be for the last 7 episode,very serious and gloomy.No more fun ><Are you sure about that?
IMO that OP has definitely shown where the show's going to go; serious wtfpwn battles.

krisslanza

2007-07-29, 12:56

I wanna see this OP... D:

raidou

2007-07-29, 12:58

IMO that OP has definitely shown where the show's going to go; serious wtfpwn battles.

^^ just saying that since everyone looks sad and serious in the Opening...No even person one is smiling (except jail :heh: )

Definitely much different from 1st Opening.

Yep, it was Wendy and Deed (their official spellings are out @ official site, btw).

Thank you :)

DmonHiro

2007-07-29, 13:02

Can someone please post the opening somewhere else.....? Please?

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 13:05

OMG @_@

I don't remember WHO exactly said it, but Zest IS coughing out blood IN A FOREST.... Seems the effect takes place around 15 to 20 hours after usage of Full Drive. And had it not been for Rein, Vita most likely would've died. (( even though he only hit the hammer? @_@ ))

On that effect, I am TOTALLY sold on Zest x Agito. It's just so...endearing, especially how she teared up, and brought him that cup of hot drink.

Master Anime

2007-07-29, 13:08

Can someone explain what's going on in this episode

Kirika-chan

2007-07-29, 13:09

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OLI6Zpe3dQ

This, opening 2 ^^
Vivio ... >.< Nanoha get back her T.T

asaqe

2007-07-29, 13:14

why cant you kill people? how is it not realistic for people to die in fights like that? how is it not an action anime? it may not be all action but nonetheless action is appart of the genre ~ what i want to see is for this series to grow up from its roots from being "all happy go lucky friends" to something darker ~ (yes darker than seeing fate chan being tortured >_<)

edit: lol the new OP...i see nanoha going crazy XD and subaru going "kamehameha!!"

Well...some of us like a general happy lucky go theme...and besides, its Maho Shoujo, few die unrepentant deaths. I wouldnt be surprised if the numbers goes with Luce and Zest in the end to do their own thing and the Doctor is brought to justice. And somehow I feel Due is going to be Ginga or even the doctor himself...

Thisguy

2007-07-29, 13:20

Thought of starting on summery... but after going through episode for twice it's already about 3:30 am.
I suppose I'll skip for today, for I don't wanna have a hell at my work tomorrow :heh:

Fabien

2007-07-29, 13:33

Thought of starting on summery... but after going through episode for twice it's already about 3:30 am.

It's nice being in Europe -- in my time zone, I can watch StrikerS around 8-9 pm.
(But last week, I stayed up until 6 am to discuss whether Jail is a Good Guy or not :-/ )

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 13:34

A few points...

- Quint is human, perfectly. Subaru and Ginga are not blood-related, and it was coincidental that they looked alike in hair color and looks. And apparently Genya/Quint can't give birth?

- The person who derived the concept and idea of integrating human bases with machine is Jail Scaglietti. It was 11 years ago that Ginga and Subaru were rescued.

- Quint's BJ looks exactly like Ginga's, only with dual knuckles. :rolleyes:

- Zafira's injuries are quite serious. However, Vice is worse... looks like he's off the show. :rolleyes:

- Chrono LUVs being together with Carim, huh? I thought he was on a MISSION yesterday? :rolleyes:

- Regius used to be a very very radical winger. Apparently he was involved in a lot of funding of things, some things unethical, possibly Sentoukijin and Artificial Mage case involvements. At the very least, he clearly knows Zest, and is VERY AFRAID of him. Possibly involved in creation of Artificial Ancient Belka?

- Zest x Agito = <3 Sadly it looks like it's not to be, since Zest is clearly suffering. Zest considers himself different from the Number types.

- Subaru's IS severely damaged Cinque's frame and Nove's arm... A one-hit-killer IS so to speak. Ginga in a testtube. More Numbers sisterly lurv.

- Apparently Jail told Lutecia Relic Core XI can revive her mother. I don't know how true is that...but if that's true...god... Jail has over 75 Relics... And the Lutecia-ish testtube from Ep.5 wasn't a mistake after all. Looks like aside from Numbers, Jail has MORE testtubes girls... @_@

- Ah... NanohaFate scene. This time it's Fate being the one on top, so you NFers can get something different for once. :rolleyes:

- Vivio, the Vessel of Saints + Relic Core Number X...something = Jail's ultimate creation? Oh oh...

Fabien

2007-07-29, 13:41

Apparently Jail told Lutecia Relic Core XI can revive her mother.

Maybe he also told Precia that getting the Jewel Seeds could revive her daughter?
(There's a good chance that they knew each other, maybe worked together.)

Master Anime

2007-07-29, 13:42

Screencaps please

asaqe

2007-07-29, 13:47

raidou

2007-07-29, 13:49

A few points...

- Quint is human, perfectly. Subaru and Ginga are not blood-related, and it was coincidental that they looked alike in hair color and looks. And apparently Genya/Quint can't give birth?
-They look too bloody similar :uhoh: what a scam ...Ginga is almost the exact copy of Quint.Oh well this is an anime >.>
- Zafira's injuries are quite serious. However, Vice is worse... looks like he's off the show. :rolleyes:
-It is practical way to remove of all side characters at once :heh: ...get rid of every RF06 member except those that appear in the OP due to injuries.
- Regius used to be a very very radical winger. Apparently he was involved in a lot of funding of things, some things unethical, possibly Sentoukijin and Artificial Mage case involvements. At the very least, he clearly knows Zest, and is VERY AFRAID of him. Possibly involved in creation of Artificial Ancient Belka?
I hope it doesn't go "Regius get a heart attack after viewing Zest pic, out for the rest of the series due to hospitalization"...Kinda loled at that particular part .Must be very horrible experience with Zest till it trigger a heart attack.
- Vivio, the Vessel of Saints + Relic Core Number X...something = Jail's ultimate creation? Oh oh...
That particular Relic is XXX times bigger than regular relic >.> ..Vivio would turn into what? a monster ?

- Chrono LUVs being together with Carim, huh? I thought he was on a MISSION yesterday? :rolleyes:
Clearly he is cheating :heh: ...see how he is not wearing usual clothing during the meeting, very casual clothes just like at home :p where as everyone else is wearing official uniforms even the wounded RF06's staffs.

FlareKnight

2007-07-29, 13:58

Well it's now out.

Probably starting from the end first here. Really can't wait for Jail to get cut apart by Bardiche. Seriously, binding down a young girl to a table (which sounds bad enough on its own) and now he's going to insert Relics into her? Either way all the terrified screaming by Vivio at the end really left a concerned feeling for her safety.

Looks like Chrono is right back with Carim again. The man just can't stay away for one reason or another. Oh well nothing wrong there just his place to hang out I suppose.

Guys took a pretty bad hit this episode for sure. Vice is definitely out, maybe he could get a hospital visit but that's about it. Zafira is pretty badly hurt too. Even if we didn't get to see much he really gave it his all to protect everyone.

Got to see the interesting relationship with Agito and Zest. Didn't know they were that close from the past episodes. But she was really worried about him and considering he was spitting up blood it wasn't a good sign. That move was incredibly dangerous it seems to himself and the opponent. Doubt he'll be able to afford trying that on Signum. Plus interesting how Rigius apparently had a heart attack after seeing Zest on the recording.

Fate does her best to handle everything even comforting Nanoha. Just hope that doesn't turn things into a, "oh nice Nanoha Fate romantic moment" vs. "Fate comforting her distraught friend" kind of thing.

As expected a lot of aftermath. One I saw didn't have a next week preview so not certain what move they are going to make.

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 14:02

I'm not so sure though...

Vita said that had it not been for Rein's unison, she probably would've died under Zest's hands. I was like...WTF? He smashed your HAMMER!! Not you! In fact, he didn't even aim at you! @_@

And the after-effect comes late. Approximately an entire day after using it once, though it is a pretty severe blood-cough inducing one.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 14:03

A few points...

- Quint is human, perfectly. Subaru and Ginga are not blood-related, and it was coincidental that they looked alike in hair color and looks. And apparently Genya/Quint can't give birth?

Well, got us good there... The Ginga-Subaru part that is, who would have figured :rolleyes: ?

(Actually I suspected :heh: but went "Naaaaahhhhhhh!")

- The person who derived the concept and idea of integrating human bases with machine is Jail Scaglietti. It was 11 years ago that Ginga and Subaru were rescued.

'Rescued'? Is that the right word?

- Zafira's injuries are quite serious. However, Vice is worse... looks like he's off the show. :rolleyes:

That would explain Alto ;)

- Chrono LUVs being together with Carim, huh? I thought he was on a MISSION yesterday? :rolleyes:

Ahhh... Well...

I'm sure it'll all be explained in due time... :nod:

*sneezedcoughagreewithraidoucoughsneezed*

- Regius used to be a very very radical winger. Apparently he was involved in a lot of funding of things, some things unethical, possibly Sentoukijin and Artificial Mage case involvements. At the very least, he clearly knows Zest, and is VERY AFRAID of him. Possibly involved in creation of Artificial Ancient Belka?

A terrified Regius is fine too....

- Zest x Agito = <3 Sadly it looks like it's not to be, since Zest is clearly suffering. Zest considers himself different from the Number types.

Well, people did chalk him down as expendable.

- Apparently Jail told Lutecia Relic Core XI can revive her mother. I don't know how true is that...but if that's true...god... Jail has over 75 Relics... And the Lutecia-ish testtube from Ep.5 wasn't a mistake after all. Looks like aside from Numbers, Jail has MORE testtubes girls... @_@

Sigh... It's always the mother... Even in death, the males are shafted!

- Vivio, the Vessel of Saints + Relic Core Number X...something = Jail's ultimate creation? Oh oh...

Heh, I swear I called it back in episode 13 :p

FlareKnight

2007-07-29, 14:07

Ah ok got the preview now

Erio vs Subaru....god help that poor kid. Guess this is the Erio needs to know how to kick ass lesson. Can't just throw on a booster and rush into a fight. If he can pick up anything out of fighting Signum one on one he'll be better for it. If he survives...
On the Chrono Carim thing....well like Chaos has said he's a migratory bird. He can't just hang out on a ship or do a mission for too long. It absolutely doesn't mean anything that he keeps migrating back to Carim :heh:

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 14:07

Well, got us good there... The Ginga-Subaru part that is, who would have figured :rolleyes: ?

(Actually I suspected :heh: but went "Naaaaahhhhhhh!")

Oops, I didn't you didn't read my poorly worded grammar wrongly. What I was trying to say was...

Ginga and Subaru are not blood-related to Quint/Genya. Whether or not they're actual sisters, that's a different story, but at least, the similarity to their mother is coincidental.

And yes, rescued is the right word. They were found and rescued by TSAB, being Sentoukijin Experimentals.

Deathkillz

2007-07-29, 14:08

well as expected it was a none action ep ~ and with all the conversations being thrown around i wont bother to write a summary :heh:

well im glad to say that subaru wasnt as emo as i thought she would be...though nanoha did take her share being the one who brokedown completely ~
we see ginga stripped nekkid and in a test tube and also rider ~

zest coughing up blood was like errrr but i loved the attention from agito (who was calling him "danna!" with love and affection :D)

the asshole commander gets a heart attack after seeing a picture of zest (and i was like WTF another plot hole XD ahh the first one being subaru's squeeky arm) ~

overall it was an "okey" ep (though the OP was quite disappointing...subaru is the main focus of things which was rather interesting :3)

Outlaender

2007-07-29, 14:09

My question is, how did Subaru and Ginga manage to enlist in the military with their backround? One would think that physical and magical exams would have detected their anomalous natures. Unless their files always had some kind of flag warning people off. Does the episode mention if the officers of RF6 knew from the beginning
about the Nakajima sisters? I would think it likely, given Hayate's connections to Genya/Quint. I could buy some kind of stealthing of the cyborg parts, but this revelation seems a bit on the dodgey side.

It's becoming more likely that Nanoha will be facing a transformed Vivio- it would be fitting, since she's been the one to try to make friends out of foes. ^_^

The Asura/Arthra showing up in the opening- sounds like there'll be a ship hijacking in the future. Chrono and the green haired guy did say it was due to be
scrapped. Probably some crisis or political skullduggery will tie up the Navy in knots, so they'll have to grab some ship to go after Scaglietti. Cue Honor Harringtonesque death ride to victory!! =)

FlareKnight

2007-07-29, 14:12

Fabien

2007-07-29, 14:14

My question is, how did Subaru and Ginga manage to enlist in the military with their backround? One would think that physical and magical exams would have detected their anomalous natures.

The TSAB doesn't seem to mind enlisting weird people. I mean, the Volkenritten aren't even human; Fate and Erio are, like Subaru, artificially created.

raidou

2007-07-29, 14:14

My question is, how did Subaru and Ginga manage to enlist in the military with their backround? One would think that physical and magical exams would have detected their anomalous natures. Unless their files always had some kind of flag warning people off. Does the episode mention if the officers of RF6 knew from the beginning
about the Nakajima sisters? I would think it likely, given Hayate's connections to Genya/Quint. I could buy some kind of stealthing of the cyborg parts, but this revelation seems a bit on the dodgey side.

Yah, the officers did know about it.Even Teana know about it long ago(manga).

They probably get into the military due to Genya/Quint connection since they were adopted and considered their children/normal people.
:heh: pretty sure TSAB consist of a lot of people with abnormality/weird background, dont think they mind as long those people are proven to be good/usefull.You could consider Fate/Hayate/Erio similar to Ginga/Subaru

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 14:16

On the Chrono Carim thing....well like Chrono has said he's a migratory bird. He can't just hang out on a ship or do a mission for too long. It absolutely doesn't mean anything that he keeps migrating back to Carim :heh:

Ahhh... I just knew one day our names would get mixed up :p

Wasn't intentional though... :heh:

Ginga and Subaru are not blood-related to Quint/Genya. Whether or not they're actual sisters, that's a different story, but at least, the similarity to their mother is coincidental.

Ahhhh~ .....EHHH?!

I thought at least Ginga... :heh: They sure are asking us for alot of faith.

And yes, rescued is the right word. They were found and rescued by TSAB, being Sentoukijin Experimentals.

Maybe Quint had...

Erm Well, lets me just point in the direction of the older mages that I'm writing on... You would know what I mean...

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 14:23

Could end up being the Asura's last run. Maybe with all the problems in TSAB getting clearance for a rescue mission would be a serious problem. Could have RF6 highjacking the ship so they can take down the doctor. Now the only question is can they get Chrono away from Carim long enough to come along :)....

That's the question though isn't it? :heh:

Who else would fly that thing? (Lindy, but she shafted even worse)

I was laughing with the Regius guy getting a heart attack. Okay sure if you know the guy be shocked but come on. It'd be utter hilarious if he just ended up kicking the can just like that.

Or... Maybe he thought Zest was dead?

Maybe... He had VERY GOOD REASONS (hint hint) to believe so....

Dark Wing

2007-07-29, 14:28

Thats right people the fun and games are over...It's time to befriend...:cool:

Anyway, The Doc has to die now! No it's, ands, or buts about it. I won't to see him before this is over and no crappy suicide like with Fate's mom either. I want him atomized!:frustrated:

I think I know what going on between Rigius and Zest...could they be *gasp* father and son.:twitch: Also Zest x Agito...How in the world did that happen. Now I'm really starting to wonder about him...:eyebrow:

Well at lest we know why Lutecia is after relic 11 now but why do I have the felling that her story isn't going to end well.:heh:

Final Eiro gets sick of being the meat shield and seems want some Ummnm... personal lessons form Subaru. ;) (Man Chaos is going have a field day with this one) :rolleyes:

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 14:35

I think I know what going on between Rigius and Zest...could they be *gasp* father and son.:twitch: Also Zest x Agito...How in the world did that happen. Now I'm really starting to wonder about him...:eyebrow:

Final Eiro gets sick of being the meat shield and seems want some Ummnm... personal lessons form Subaru. ;) (Man Chaos is going have a field day with this one) :rolleyes:

love needs no reason. Well, Zest/Agito is about as canon as Nanoha/Fate atm. Lots of cuddly, nice interaction, but we'd never see them really acknowledge the point. Doesn't stop people from fantasizing anyway. Still, you can't deny that their interaction is pretty...nice. :)

Sadly, I can imagine a scenario where at his limits, he'll ask either Signum or Vita to take in Agito as their unison device and treat her well, while Agito cries and says that her only Lord is her Danna and no one else.

Well, next week, Elio vs Signum too. Finally.

Keroko

2007-07-29, 14:38

My views on the episode:

-I found myself liking this opening, though that's probably because of the drama breaker Nanoha/Vivio part.

-Teana comforting Subaru was expected, and apparently Teana knew of Subaru being an android if I understood things correctly.

-Vice and Zafira... suffering from serious injuries and no apearance at all in the opening... I say we'll see them for a few seconds in the ending of the last episode, and that's it.

-The long awaited and expected story behind the Nakajima's. I'll have to wait for the subs before it will start making more then just a bit of sense though.

-In agreement with the others... what the hell is Chrono doing at Carim's place? I think we'll be siccing the fanfic thread at what this so called 'mission' was and why it involved being at Carim's.

-Regius' secretary doesn't seem to be the trusting type of person, concidering how she was ranting at Hayate about the Yami no Sho.

-Regius getting a heart attack from seeing Zest. Oh, how I loved that scene. :D Now what is going on between these two? Maybe he and Zest were involved with some shady operation, and Zest is a threat to destroy his coverup. Or maybe Zest is an enemy of a long time ago.... Hmm, ponderings.

-Oookay, Full Drive without Agito's protection seems not good for the health. Lotsa blood, too. On the flipside, Zest/Agito = :D

-Numbers seem interested in Ginga, and pretty much neutral. Lots of prototype-ish talk, too.

-So Lutecia is looking for the core that will get her mother alive. No real surpise here. This was porbably the most expected case of the entire episode.

-The expected Nanoha/Fate moment. To be honest, I'm surprised it was this short. I half expected the producers to make it a full blown nanoha/Fate fanservice moment, but they kept it quite modest. A good choice.

-..... I'm suddenly getting the urge to minimalize this screen and start the nearest shooter on my screen to get rid of the bumping excitement this scene has introduced. Drama Breaker 5000 anyone? A terified Vivio bound to a table, screaming for her mama as Scaglieti means to plant a relic inside of her.

And he's obviously enjoying it.

I'd like to see Good-guy Scaglieti suporters explain this to me.

Tiberium Wolf

2007-07-29, 14:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OLI6Zpe3dQ

This, opening 2 ^^
Vivio ... >.< Nanoha get back her T.T

Horrible the quality of the video due the fast motion... oh well... I'll wait for the fansubs.

Key Board

2007-07-29, 14:41

It's seem my Megaman X theory of Ginga/Subaru came true

Scaglietti did not make them. They are made by an unknown person and are prototypes of his current numbers

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 14:45

-Regius' secretary doesn't seem to be the trusting type of person, concidering how she was ranting at Hayate about the Yami no Sho.

-Oookay, full unision without Agito's protection seems not good for the health. Lotsa blood, too. On the flipside, Zest/Agito = :D

-..... I'm suddenly getting the urge to minimalize this screen and start the nearest shooter on my screen to get rid of the bumping excitement this scene has introduced. Drama Breaker 5000 anyone? A terified Vivio bound to a table, screaming for her mama as Scaglieti means to plant a relic inside of her.

And he's obviously enjoying it.

I'd like to see Good-guy Scaglieti suporters explain this to me.

- Firstly, Hayate started it by ranting about Regius's old skeletons in the closet, which ticks Auria off and got her started on Hayate's very own skeletons in her closet.

- Full Drive. Not unison. F.D with Agito would've probably injured Agito severely as well, since he asked her to un-unison so that he can use it.

- Well, if we take what Jail fed Lutecia honestly, implanting a Relic Core can somehow restore her mother's life, and her own heart. Maybe Jail wants to restore the Saint within Vivio, since she's supposedly the Vessel of it? One life for another. And it's not like the little girl dies. We'll see. He's FAR FAR from a good guy, but I wouldn't label what he did as extremely bad and evil yet, just sadistic. Since technically, Lutecia hopes to do the same thing, but we won't get angry at her when or if she does so.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 14:45

Anyway, The Doc has to die now! No it's, ands, or buts about it. I won't to see him before this is over and no crappy suicide like with Fate's mom either. I want him atomized!:frustrated:

Nah, he's going to spent the rest of his life in prison.

Why? Because it would still be an acceptable ending, and people would go bananas over it :cool:

Cause if Visser Three could...

I think I know what going on between Rigius and Zest...could they be *gasp* father and son.:twitch: Also Zest x Agito...How in the world did that happen. Now I'm really starting to wonder about him...:eyebrow:

You know that song, "Accidentally in love" ? :p

Well at lest we know why Lutecia is after relic 11 now but why do I have the felling that her story isn't going to end well.:heh:

Because nobody can bring back the dead :cool:

Final Eiro gets sick of being the meat shield and seems want some Ummnm... personal lessons form Subaru. ;) (Man Chaos is going have a field day with this one) :rolleyes:

Now why would you even say that? :D

FlareKnight

2007-07-29, 14:47

Ahhh... I just knew one day our names would get mixed up :p

Wasn't intentional though... :heh:
Darn figures I"d be the one to make that typo :). Oh well. But now I think there is more than enough reason for ChronoxCarim stuff to keep coming up. Sorry Amy, but this is too fun not to think about.

Yeah wasn't easy to follow that last scene with Vivo on the table. Really feel bad for the terrified girl, plus it's not like she's scared without reason I doubt anything good is going to be happening to her.

Interested with the Lutecia angle. While I knew she needed that relic for something I guess we finally have the answer. Another tie to Fate in a way with the mysterious loli going all out for the sake of her mother. Though honestly I'm extremely sceptical on the whole thing. Wouldn't surprise me if the Doctor knew where the XI relic is and is keeping it hidden to continue using Lutecia.

Edit: Damn you Visser Three!! (just had to add that)

serenade_beta

2007-07-29, 14:50

-..... I'm suddenly getting the urge to minimalize this screen and start the nearest shooter on my screen to get rid of the bumping excitement this scene has introduced. Drama Breaker 5000 anyone? A terified Vivio bound to a table, screaming for her mama as Scaglieti means to plant a relic inside of her.

And he's obviously enjoying it.

I'd like to see Good-guy Scaglieti suporters explain this to me.

Well, I support Jail, regardless of being a good guy or bad guy. So to me, if he enjoys it, then I'm happy.

I'll need to see the episode for myself before deciding how horrible it was.

Keroko

2007-07-29, 14:55

- Firstly, Hayate started it by ranting about Regius's old skeletons in the closet, which ticks Auria off and got her started on her very own skeletons in her closet.

Ah, the disadvantage of not knowing Japanase beyond a few words. :heh: I smell love from the secretary aimed at the old fart.

- Full Drive. Not unison. F.D with Agito would've probably injured Agito severely as well, since he asked her to un-unison so that he can use it.

Whoops, I meant Full Drive. The bit about the un-unision is extra information... and most interesting.

- Well, if we take what Jail fed Lutecia honestly, implanting a Relic Core can somehow restore her mother's life, and her own heart. Maybe Jail wants to restore the Saint within Vivio, since she's supposedly the Vessel of it? One life for another. And it's not like the little girl dies. We'll see.

That she doesn't die is certain, after all, it would kinda ruin the opening.

He's FAR FAR from a good guy, but I wouldn't label what he did as extremely bad and evil yet, just sadistic. Since technically, Lutecia hopes to do the same thing, but we won't get angry at her when or if she does so.

Main difference: Lutecia's mom is dead/comatose and floating in a tube. Inserting the relic would do nothing but awaken her.

Vivio, on the other hand, is awake, terified, and clearly does not like it.

Plus, if Vivio would be returned to her mother (as in, just as Lutecia's mom would return to Lutecia) don't you think the numbers and the doctors would aproach this case a bit... les sadistic?

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 14:55

Still, you can't deny that their interaction is pretty...nice. :)

It just spells 'E-M-O' later :p So I'll leave you to it :D

Sadly, I can imagine a scenario where at his limits, he'll ask either Signum or Vita to take in Agito as their unison device and treat her well, while Agito cries and says that her only Lord is her Danna and no one else.

Heheh... Nicely done... :)

Well, next week, Elio vs Signum too. Finally.

I can hear your crack-filled gears turning :heh:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-In agreement with the others... what the hell is Chrono doing at Carim's place? I think we'll be siccing the fanfic thread at what this so called 'mission' was and why it involved being at Carim's.

Working on... 'Relationships' between the Church and the Navy :)

Why sent him? Well... Why not :D?

-Oookay, full unision without Agito's protection seems not good for the health. Lotsa blood, too. On the flipside, Zest/Agito = :D

Little people love :)

-So Lutecia is looking for the core that will get her mother alive. No real surpise here. This was porbably the most expected case of the entire episode.

You just know it's not going to happen though.

I'd like to see Good-guy Scaglieti suporters explain this to me.

SHHH! Don't tempt evil!!! :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:

Keroko

2007-07-29, 14:57

Well, I support Jail, regardless of being a good guy or bad guy. So to me, if he enjoys it, then I'm happy.

I'll need to see the episode for myself before deciding how horrible it was.

It wasn't horrible in the gory sense, more the emotional one. A combination of music, viewpoints and the screaming Vivio which had my heart thumping in my throat. Not to mention cursing that I'm going to Canada next saturday >_<

Deathkillz

2007-07-29, 15:00

- Well, if we take what Jail fed Lutecia honestly, implanting a Relic Core can somehow restore her mother's life, and her own heart. Maybe Jail wants to restore the Saint within Vivio, since she's supposedly the Vessel of it? One life for another. And it's not like the little girl dies. We'll see. He's FAR FAR from a good guy, but I wouldn't label what he did as extremely bad and evil yet, just sadistic. Since technically, Lutecia hopes to do the same thing, but we won't get angry at her when or if she does so.
the thing about reviving lutecia's mother...was going to use the number in the test tube or is that person lutecia's mother already? cause if it is the former jail could very well have been lying to lutecia in order to get her to work for him by providing false hope :/

he is a sadist for enjoying inflicting pain on poor vivio for his own desires...it really depends on what you class as being "evil" ~ like the question of is precia actually evil or is she just a tragic victim?

FlareKnight

2007-07-29, 15:05

It wasn't horrible in the gory sense, more the emotional one. A combination of music, viewpoints and the screaming Vivio which had my heart thumping in my throat. Not to mention cursing that I'm going to Canada next saturday >_<
Okay I'm going to need clearing on how going to Canada is a bad thing :). But yeah it was a pretty emotional scene. All culminating with that creepy look on the Doctor's face and the screams of Vivio.

Nice of Chrono to give up his time to help improve relations between Navy and Church. What a guy always giving :heh:.

Yeah I'd rather avoid tempting the Doctor supporters. No doubt they can come up with a big argument, and I'd rather avoid seeing the thread vanish into massive quoting posts again.

Keroko

2007-07-29, 15:06

he is a sadist for enjoying inflicting pain on poor vivio for his own desires...it really depends on what you class as being "evil" ~ like the question of is precia actually evil or is she just a tragic victim?

'Tragic victim turned evil' is my description. We'll need more Jail background before I can upgrade him to that level.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 15:06

Darn figures I"d be the one to make that typo :). Oh well. But now I think there is more than enough reason for ChronoxCarim stuff to keep coming up. Sorry Amy, but this is too fun not to think about.

I'm waiting for the fanarts to start rolling... With any luck, "Kuina Minazoi" would pull through for me again :D !

Yeah wasn't easy to follow that last scene with Vivo on the table. Really feel bad for the terrified girl, plus it's not like she's scared without reason I doubt anything good is going to be happening to her.

If you can sit through Higurashi, you can sit through one screaming little girl.

... So I tell myself.

Edit: Damn you Visser Three!! (just had to add that)

I know... I Know... :heh:

Keroko

2007-07-29, 15:08

Okay I'm going to need clearing on how going to Canada is a bad thing :).

Going to Canada = no Nanoha for two weeks (and the paling backlog in the OC thread, but that's a different story).

Yeah I'd rather avoid tempting the Doctor supporters. No doubt they can come up with a big argument, and I'd rather avoid seeing the thread vanish into massive quoting posts again.

*Keeps poking* I just want to see their reaction to this scene.

If you can sit through Higurashi, you can sit through one screaming little girl.

... So I tell myself.

Difference is, with Higurashi you know they're all gonna die.

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 15:08

the thing about reviving lutecia's mother...was going to use the number in the test tube or is that person lutecia's mother already? cause if it is the former jail could very well have been lying to lutecia in order to get her to work for him by providing false hope :/

he is a sadist for enjoying inflicting pain on poor vivio for his own desires...it really depends on what you class as being "evil" ~ like the question of is precia actually evil or is she just a tragic victim?

Well, it's possible Jail's feeding her bullshit. And that girl in tube XI is her mother, from what the Numbers said. But for her to awaken, Core XI is needed.

My definition of evil lies not with the presentation, but the inner reflection. I don't really look at how evil he "looks", or what kind of methods he present himself with. It's easy to demean villains or jackasses with such manner of outlook, but I normally judge from the long-term and rational outlook of his goals. One reason why I love Rossiu in Gurren Lagann currently while everyone else thinks he's a freaking jackass.

Same reason I don't harbor any dislike towards Regius as well...but this episode may change that opinion once I get some subs. It's hard to catch some things being said after all about his past...skeletons.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7595/00004rg6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Beautiful relationship. :)

Outlaender

2007-07-29, 15:13

the thing about reviving lutecia's mother...was going to use the number in the test tube or is that person lutecia's mother already? cause if it is the former jail could very well have been lying to lutecia in order to get her to work for him by providing false hope :/

he is a sadist for enjoying inflicting pain on poor vivio for his own desires...it really depends on what you class as being "evil" ~ like the question of is precia actually evil or is she just a tragic victim?

My money is on Scags using Lutecia for his own ends. Relic 11 may in fact revive her
mother, who knows in what condition though, and with what kind of strings attached. I expect that Lutecia is going to be less than happy with the outcome, and
Scags just sending her on her way as not being necessary to his plans anymore. It appears he may have a replacement for her on the way, and he's been allowing Luc and Zest basically free reign, as their aims coincided more or less with his. We've already gotten a glimspe of the scope of his operation, so he probably thinks their irrelevant if they try to interfere.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 15:20

Going to Canada = no Nanoha for two weeks (and the paling backlog in the OC thread, but that's a different story).

If Erio could survive the avalanche ... :p

*Keeps poking* I just want to see their reaction to this scene.

Ahhh! It's growing! It's growing!!!! :eek:

Difference is, with Higurashi you know they're all gonna die.

It doesn't make the screams feel any lesser does it...

Fabien

2007-07-29, 15:21

Anyway, The Doc has to die now! No it's, ands, or buts about it. I won't to see him before this is over and no crappy suicide like with Fate's mom either. I want him atomized!:frustrated:

I'd rather see him having a painful life in prison. Rather fitting, with his name.

And Precia didn't commit suicide. She tried to go to Alhazared, and we don't know for sure whether she succeeded (though the odds are extremely low).

Fabien

2007-07-29, 15:24

- Well, if we take what Jail fed Lutecia honestly, implanting a Relic Core can somehow restore her mother's life

It's been stated clearly in the first season that whatever happens, reviving someone is impossible.
The closest you can do is create a clone with the same memories.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 15:25

Nice of Chrono to give up his time to help improve relations between Navy and Church. What a guy always giving :heh:.

This is actually very good for my fic... :)

Yeah I'd rather avoid tempting the Doctor supporters. No doubt they can come up with a big argument, and I'd rather avoid seeing the thread vanish into massive quoting posts again.

Shhh! Do not speak of the cult! :uhoh:

Same reason I don't harbor any dislike towards Regius as well...but this episode may change that opinion once I get some subs. It's hard to catch some things being said after all about his past...skeletons.

You know, I'll be more surprise to hear of a high ranking person that DOESN'T have any skeletons :p

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7595/00004rg6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Beautiful relationship. :)

I swear you're influencing me... Somehow :heh:

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 15:27

To be honest, the scene with Vivio was pretty expected.

I needed a proof that Jail is a bad guy. Now I have it.

What proof? If the scene with Vivio was proof, he was already a villain long before he even started the attack on GC. To begin with, he was already portrayed as a twisted evil scientist who isn't exactly a nice guy to begin with considering how he calls Lutecia 'a creation/toy' and stuff.

It just adds to his current sadistic meters. Without knowing exactly what's the purpose of him implanting the Relic inside her, I wouldn't call it being bad yet.

It's been stated clearly in the first season that whatever happens, reviving someone is impossible.
The closest you can do is create a clone with the same memories.

What if she's not dead, and Relic Cores houses the spiritual life/existence or something to that extent? Crystallized life-energy, that when implanted, restores the crystallized life into a body. Possible concept.

DmonHiro

2007-07-29, 15:28

I loved the scene with Scags and Vivio, it was a great moment..........I belive I could be friends with him. I've always wanted to tie up a little girl and do wierd experiments on her. YES.......I would LOVE to befriend Scag........But no worry, I'm sure Nanoha will befriend him soon enough.....(hope it's painfull).

Yeah....Scags is not a bad guy........^^$%^#@#%$%#^%%#%$ son of a &%^$%$!!!. Man that scene was nasty. We got the bound helpless Vivio scremening for her mama and then a shot(I DO hope he gets shot) of Scags looking very happy and grinning like he's having a WORLD of fun.

aroduc

2007-07-29, 15:28

Higher quality OP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Anmeb6_RWO0

Deathkillz

2007-07-29, 15:30

One reason why I love Rossiu in Gurren Lagann currently while everyone else thinks he's a freaking jackass.

Same reason I don't harbor any dislike towards Regius as well...but this episode may change that opinion once I get some subs. It's hard to catch some things being said after all about his past...skeletons.

i love rossui because he is acting like a jackass with a hidden motive to be loyal to simon ;)

but as for regius hes a jackass 100% pedigree ~ or rather extremely biased towards his own beliefs (like how very old people are when they cant let go of their past experiences)

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7595/00004rg6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Beautiful relationship. :)
DANNA!!! :D

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 15:33

What proof? If the scene with Vivio was proof, he was already a villain long before he even started the attack on GC. To begin with, he was already portrayed as a twisted evil scientist who isn't exactly a nice guy to begin with considering how he calls Lutecia 'a creation/toy' and stuff.

It just involves a helpless (Yes, NOW she's helpless) little girl this time. That's all.

Somehow, her well-being makes more sense than TSAB soldiers.

(I won't be surprise if Vivio goes 'Alma' (F.E.A.R) on them all...)

It just adds to his current sadistic meters. Without knowing exactly what's the purpose of him implanting the Relic inside her, I wouldn't call it being bad yet.

Either way, he's public enemy number one.

And I don't mean just here :heh:

Fabien

2007-07-29, 15:34

he is a sadist for enjoying inflicting pain on poor vivio for his own desires...it really depends on what you class as being "evil" ~

Keep in mind that some doctors don't really care about the pain they cause. They can cure you as well as another, but it's not a nice experience, especially when you're a kid.
And I don't think Jail is enjoying inflicting pain and fear. He's just overwhelmingly happy to be so close to his plan's success.

like the question of is precia actually evil or is she just a tragic victim?

Precia has gone crazy. I don't think she'd be recognized as responsible for her actions in a trial.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 15:38

Here it comes, the start of a new one. TO ARMS SPARTAS!

(It's times like these where the legion seems to be nowhere...)

Keep in mind hat some doctors don't really care about the pain they cause. They can cure you as well as another, but it's not a nice experience, especially when you're a kid.

Yeah, but there's such things are parental consent.

Even if they don't have parents, a good doctor would at least tell you why they're doing this.

And it should be nothing short of "If not, you are going to die"

And I don't think Jail is enjoying inflicting pain and fear. He's just overwhelmingly happy to be so close to his plan's success.

Maybe, but the fact that he doesn't feel bad about it means that it's norma;/common for him.

Brilliant isn't it?

Precia has gone crazy. I don't think she'd be recognized as responsible for her actions in a trial.

Not really, she has enough sense to plan it all out.

aroduc

2007-07-29, 15:40

More caps
http://blog.seiha.org/?p=231

Anyway, thought it was a relatively uninteresting episode. Fair amount of plot movement, but all of it was done by having people sit around and talk it out while showing semi-relevant stills. My Japanese is also nowhere near good enough to keep up with the particularly dense flurry of technobabble this episode.

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 15:40

*Keeps poking* I just want to see their reaction to this scene.

You wanna know my reaction?

*Yawns* Shut up, Vivio. I wanna hear what Quattro and the Doctor is saying. Your screaming isn't contributing to any plot/character development other than to make the easily sympathetic watchers pity you and hate Jail more, more and more, so that everyone can go high and happy once the good guys beat his ass, which they will, since this is Nanoha, and the good guys always wins.

Yeah, but there's such things are parental consent.

Even if they don't have parents, a good doctor would at least tell you why they're doing this.

And it should be nothing short of "If not, you are going to die"

Considering they're STILL keeping everything under wraps on what exactly Jail is planning with his >75 Relic Cores, Vessel, and stuff, you'd think he'd tell the truth?

And he's probably done this sort of things many times now, with his Numbers or back when he planned the concept of Project F/man-machine hybrid. I mean, he has to cut them up a little to put in machines, right? Vivio seems to get off easy. No scalpels involved.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 15:43

You wanna know my reaction?

*Yawns* Shut up, Vivio. I wanna hear what Quattro and the Doctor is saying. Your screaming isn't contributing to any plot/character development other than to make the easily sympathetic watchers pity you and hate Jail more, more and more, so that everyone can go high and happy once the good guys beat his ass, which they will, since this is Nanoha, and the good guys always wins.

Yes, but you're a practical guy, it's understandable for you to feel that way, and You could be reasoned with.

DmonHiro

2007-07-29, 15:47

Keroko

2007-07-29, 15:47

You wanna know my reaction?

*Yawns* Shut up, Vivio. I wanna hear what Quattro and the Doctor is saying. Your screaming isn't contributing to any plot/character development other than to make the easily sympathetic watchers pity you and hate Jail more, more and more, so that everyone can go high and happy once the good guys beat his ass, which they will, since this is Nanoha, and the good guys always wins.

Moodkiller :joke:

That's exactly the purpose of the scene. More drama that makes us pitty poor little Vivio, and hate the 3vil docter, and by the Aspects, it's working. I love scenes like this, drama breaker 5000. Being drama glutton I am, this scene scores top ranks at the moment, followed very closely by berserking Subaru.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 15:49

Considering they're STILL keeping everything under wraps on what exactly Jail is planning with his >75 Relic Cores, Vessel, and stuff, you'd think he'd tell the truth?

Never. But that's the problem isn't it? And I don't mean just for us.

And he's probably done this sort of things many times now, with his Numbers or back when he planned the concept of Project F/man-machine hybrid. I mean, he has to cut them up a little to put in machines, right? Vivio seems to get off easy. No scalpels involved.

EXACTLY. It's to a point where it doesn't bother him.

Though unlike the numbers, this is obviously against Vivio's wishes.

EDIT:

Moodkiller :joke:

That's exactly the purpose of the scene. More drama that makes us pitty poor little Vivio, and hate the 3vil docter, and by the Aspects, it's working. I love scenes like this, drama breaker 5000. Being drama glutton I am, this scene scores top ranks at the moment, followed very closely by berserking Subaru.

Drama people are weird :heh:

Why? Because I don't understand them. Wait! Maybe the fault doesn't lie in me, but in them! That must be it!

You're all evil!!!!

Deathkillz

2007-07-29, 15:52

vivio...the new yami no sho (defense program) for this season...remember back to that fanart with perhaps 100 times the amount epix destruction (and im not talking about her cutness :p)

Key Board

2007-07-29, 15:53

I think relics are solidified memories / souls

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 15:57

vivio...the new yami no sho (defense program) for this season...remember back to that fanart with perhaps 100 times the amount epix destruction (and im not talking about her cutness :p)

She's a mix of Fate and Hayate :heh:

I betting the ending would go the same way for both of them.

Fabien

2007-07-29, 16:00

*Yawns* Shut up, Vivio.

As a matter of fact, she doesn't cry much more there than she did when in Nanoha's embrace.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 16:03

As a matter of fact, she doesn't cry much more there than she did when in Nanoha's embrace.

Two points though:

1) Agree, at least here she's more useful plot-wise

2) Even you couldn't disagree that there are different kinds of crying, different reasons for them.

Unless you're desperate?

Keroko

2007-07-29, 16:05

Drama people are weird :heh:

Why? Because I don't understand them. Wait! Maybe the fault doesn't lie in me, but in them! That must be it!

You're all evil!!!!

...

*grabs cellphone* Take the shot, he's on to us.

I pride myself on being weird. :D

vivio...the new yami no sho (defense program) for this season...remember back to that fanart with perhaps 100 times the amount epix destruction (and im not talking about her cutness :p)

Crap... I missed that one, I guess... Or was it the Vivio in BJ fanart?

An Hero in Disguise

2007-07-29, 16:09

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 16:09

...

*grabs cellphone* Take the shot, he's on to us.

Secured Bunker :p

I pride myself on being weird. :D

Then we are comrades.

Crap... I missed that one, I guess... Or was it the Vivio in BJ fanart?

Yeah, that might be it... Now assuming she lives long enough to make it to puberty...

Nothing terrible happened to her so far anyway, as we didn't see what exactly the ritual was about.

To make her grow up pretty like her mamas :rolleyes:.

I've seen cockroaches give up fast than you.

Fabien

2007-07-29, 16:11

Even you couldn't disagree that there are different kinds of crying, different reasons for them.

I must admit that Jail is as bad a Schach when it come to handling children.

But then again, at her age, with a doctor preparing to do something to me (even a normal doctor, wishing to cure me), I'd have had roughly the same reaction.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 16:14

I must admit that Jail is as bad a Schach when it come to handling children.

True enough.

But then again, at her age, with a doctor preparing to do something to me (even a normal doctor, wishing to cure me), I'd have had roughly the same reaction.

Where's your parents at that time?

FlameSparkZ

2007-07-29, 16:28

Just saw the episode.

The new OP is awesome!

And we get some more plot development too :D

Poor Vivio, if she knows what a Relic is then it's safe to assume that what the Doctor was about to do to her was done to her before...

We get to know the reason behind Lutecia's alliance with Scaglietti.
Bringing back her mother...though I didn't quite understand it all, but it was something about not remembering... :heh:

So that's why she needs Relic nº11...
But now...why do I get the feeling that Scaglietti ALREADY has Relic nº11, but is hiding it so that Lutecia helps him...:uhoh:

It also seems Regius knows Zest...hmmm

FlareKnight

2007-07-29, 16:29

Yeah, though at least when Schach is bad at handling kids there is someone to get in there.

Though in this case it'd be like if a doctor was preparing to do something to you. Right after you're kidnapped from your parents with a creepy nurse only adding to the terror. But yeah.

Yeah here's hoping Vivio makes it out of this. But it still seems possible no matter how bad this gets they'll find a way to save her.

DmonHiro

2007-07-29, 16:40

Yeah here's hoping Vivio makes it out of this. But it still seems possible no matter how bad this gets they'll find a way to save her.

No worry, has Nanoha ever really failed at saving someone?

Fabien

2007-07-29, 16:43

Where's your parents at that time?

Not allowed in surgical block.

Fabien

2007-07-29, 16:46

Poor Vivio, if she knows what a Relic is

She started crying before the Relic was in view.
(Seems like seeing the creepy Quattro was enough to start it...)

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 16:46

Not allowed in surgical block.

True, but would they still be there for you? Do they know what's happening to you?

She started crying before the Relic was in view.

Yeah well, kids kinda dislike being strapped down against their will.

Fabien

2007-07-29, 16:51

True, but would they still be there for you? Do they know what's happening to you?

You can't rule out the possibility that Jail is Vivio's father/creator.

Algent

2007-07-29, 16:53

Bah like in a surgical block they could have made her sleep.
It's nothing compared to the shout in Bioshock if you kill a sister :D

DmonHiro: The actual ep ending with the young bird flying away make me doubt if the final will be happy. Also vivio fused with a relic will certainly be another person :/

Fabien

2007-07-29, 16:55

Yeah well, kids kinda dislike being strapped down against their will.

Yeah, Vivio is such a boisterous kid.

FlameSparkZ

2007-07-29, 16:57

She started crying before the Relic was in view.
(Seems like seeing the creepy Quattro was enough to start it...)

But she started panicking the moment she saw the case where the Relic was...

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 16:58

You can't rule out the possibility that Jail is Vivio's father/creator.

Did he once refered to her as his own? And we know how he isn't hesitant about declaring his goods.

Also, when I said 'parents', I mean someone who actually fulfilled that role.

Yeah, Vivio is such a boisterous kid.

Totally.

Fabien

2007-07-29, 16:58

Also vivio fused with a relic will certainly be another person :/

In Nanohaverse, saying "will certainly be" is pretty dangerous... Surprises abound.

FlareKnight

2007-07-29, 17:04

I can't rule out the possibility that Jail will step outside his lab and be crushed by a falling cow. Anything can happen which of course is what your going for. But it seems highly likely that Vivio will be a different person once fused with that relic. He's going to want to use her for his purposes which won't happen in her current state. Clearly a personality shift is possible, perhaps with the regular Vivio being suppressed. God help us all if that guy is allowed to reproduce though.

Yeah there was a clear shift in her behaviour when the relic case was brought out. Sure she was scared and freaked out but that just pushed her way beyond that state.

Frankenstein's Clare

2007-07-29, 17:25

I'm leaning Ascended Destroyer Lord Vivio. The first two seasons went so heavy on the 'reluctant enemies' theme I don't think the writers would pass up the opportunity to set Nanoha against her own daughter-thing.

Anyhow I haven't seen the episode yet; I just thought I'd drop by to cheer the new opening. I've been waiting for the Zest/Signum rivalry, and Fate was lookin' mighty cool.

FlareKnight

2007-07-29, 17:29

Yeah it does seem pretty likely we're going to get a Nanoha vs Vivio kind've thing. Maybe along the lines of A's when she took on the defense program by herself.

But yeah guess reason Vita isn't going for round 2 is she'll be sticking close to Nanoha during this final stretch. Zest and Signum seem a good pair to put up against each other. So that's something to look forward to seeing.

Icarus

2007-07-29, 17:29

Haven't felt that tingle at the back of my neck since I first heard the opening theme to A's. That's a good sign.
Watching peercast raw now. Will comment once I wipe the blood from my eyes.

Also (haven't read the thread yet) but does anyone reckon the part of the OP with what appears to be the Arthra or the Claudia means that Riot Force 6 will be going completely mobile?

EDIT: Never mind. Saw them fixing up the Arthra. RF6 coming for j00, Jail!

aroduc

2007-07-29, 18:04

I must admit that Jail is as bad a Schach when it come to handling children.

He takes parenting tips from Nanoha. That which doesn't kill her makes her stronger. :p

asaqe

2007-07-29, 18:08

I could persume the following will happen to Ginga...

A) She becames No.2 of the numbers (Highly possible)
B) Ginga after recovery is forced to spill the beans about any possible information on other Relics and gets beaten within inches of her life to make her confess since without her Blitz Caliber, Ginga is generally useless as an agent for Jail. (less likely)
C) Ginga stays trapped until Subaru rescues her. (Highly unlikely)

DmonHiro

2007-07-29, 18:09

No Hayate in the opening :( Well....it would have been hard, considering she's a bombardment type. I wonder if Signum will union with Signum to fight Zest. And MAN, Fate looked sooooooooo cool in the opening with zamber mode

Icarus

2007-07-29, 18:13

Nice episode, nothing really shocking aside from Regius knowing who Zest is, Lutecia's ambition to get mama back, and so on. Watching Hayate give Auris lip was pretty comical. And despite my lack of Japanese fluency, I kinda got the gist of the scene when Genya was spilling the beans.

Vivio screaming for help was quite upsetting, however. Kudos to the VA for pulling off a very convincing six year old.

The TSAB doesn't seem to mind enlisting weird people. I mean, the Volkenritten aren't even human; Fate and Erio are, like Subaru, artificially created.

Connections. Daddy's a bigshot.

-Teana comforting Subaru was expected, and apparently Teana knew of Subaru being an android if I understood things correctly.

We already had a hint that Teana knew in ep13. Read carefully into the dialogue during the report writing scene.
Also, aside from this episode, it's proven that Tea knew in StrikerS manga ch9.

Deathkillz

2007-07-29, 18:19

I could persume the following will happen to Ginga...

A) She becames No.2 of the numbers (Highly possible)

...and it is up to subaru for fight her with duel revolver knuckles! and in the final collision makes her remember that she is one of the good guys and hence acts as a meat shield for subaru when number 5 throws one of her famous exploding daggars seriously injuring her to the point where she seems dead...the next day she is in hospital recovering ofc ;)

Fabien

2007-07-29, 18:19

I could persume the following will happen to Ginga...
A) She becames No.2 of the numbers (Highly possible)

AFAIK, there is already a number 2. Which might be Regius' assistant.

B) Ginga after recovery is forced to spill the beans about any possible information on other Relics

I highly doubt Ginga knows anything of use to Jail.

since without her Blitz Caliber, Ginga is generally useless as an agent for Jail. (less likely)

Blitz Caliber was just a nice-to-have to Ginga; and she only got it recently.
And we know Jail can give Ginga a pail or Revolter Knuckles, since he gave one to one of the Numbers.

asaqe

2007-07-29, 18:20

I wouldnt be surprised if they do another GGG homage similar to Mikoto (As Zonuadar) vs Guy, where the finish involves 2 nude Nakajima sisters holding each other. Subaru is the queen of SRW homages.

raidou

2007-07-29, 18:20

He takes parenting tips from Nanoha. That which doesn't kill her makes her stronger. :p

So,that's why all his daughters became so dangerous :heh:
A) She becames No.2 of the numbers (Highly possible)
B) Ginga after recovery is forced to spill the beans about any possible information on other Relics and gets beaten within inches of her life to make her confess since without her Blitz Caliber, Ginga is generally useless as an agent for Jail. (less likely)
C) Ginga stays trapped until Subaru rescues her. (Highly unlikely)
There is higher possibility for C since Ginga doesn't appear at all in the new OP.Scaliegtii might be just using her data to improve other numbers combat abilities since it seems that Subaru/Ginga was the 1st success of his experiment.Ginga being created earlier that Subaru according to Cinque in ep17.

lightl

2007-07-29, 18:22

No Hayate in the opening
did you miss something when viewing the OP cause Hayate is definantly in the OP :p

asaqe

2007-07-29, 18:24

So,that's why all his daughters became so dangerous :heh:

There is higher possibility for C since Ginga doesn't appear at all in the new OP.Scaliegtii might be just using her data to improve other numbers combat abilities since it seems that Subaru/Ginga was the 1st success of his experiment.Ginga being created earlier that Subaru according to Cinque.

Good point, but its makes you wonder if Scaliegtii will do anything to brutally traumatize Ginga when she recovers then throw her back in the Jar when she freaks out in a frenzy (Think about it...tell her about how she was only adopted and that Scaliegtii is her father among all things. Subaru while she got the info in a generally TSAB matter, no doubt Jail will use his side of the story to break Ginga)

DmonHiro

2007-07-29, 18:28

did you miss something when viewing the OP cause Hayate is definantly in the OP :p

My bad. Let me retry: No fighting Hayate in the opening :D

Avatar_notADV

2007-07-29, 18:30

Icarus

2007-07-29, 18:34

My bad. Let me retry: No fighting Hayate in the opening :D

Hayate doesn't fight.

She stands there, reads out something from The Tome of the Night Sky, and then everything within fifty square miles vaporises.

DmonHiro

2007-07-29, 18:35

Well, one thing is clear: Scag will eventually find himself on the wrong end of an Exelion Buster if he's lucky.........Starlight Breaker if he isn't lucky

And yeah........I don't really see Hayate in a close/mid range battle. She's more like Artemis from Mai HiME, just point her at the target and get the fuck out of the way :D

raidou

2007-07-29, 18:39

Keep in mind that Vivio was made somewhere; it's entirely possible that she has a good reason to negatively associate "they're about to do something to me" with "that hurts!" If it was all sunshine and ice cream, the good guys would do it too.

Which make me wonder that there should be another organizations that did something similar to Jail.They might be the one that create Vivio.

For example the people that experimented on Agito, they are not related to TSAB since Zest actually wanted to leave her for TSAB to pick up.Doesn't seems to be Jail's group either.

Well, one thing is clear: Scag will eventually find himself on the wrong end of an Exelion Buster if he's lucky.........Starlight Breaker if he isn't lucky
Or he could pull out something like Precia :heh: Suicide by detonating his lab maybe

FlareKnight

2007-07-29, 18:40

Well actually if Scag isn't lucky he'll have Zambar form sticking out of his chest. But of course if they are going to kill him they might go a less bloody form and just have him vaporized.

DmonHiro

2007-07-29, 18:44

I'm for Exelion Bustering Jail......anyone else with me?
Also.....WTF is with the bigger-then-average relic? Limited Edition?

Darco_emp

2007-07-29, 18:45

Well actually if Scag isn't lucky he'll have Zambar form sticking out of his chest. But of course if they are going to kill him they might go a less bloody form and just have him vaporized.

I rather see Nanoha head hurt Jail personally :heh:. Nothing beats get pierced by Dark Nanoha's Excellion Burster A.C.S. Of course its good for Hayate to add to her kill tally too :heh:

Dark Wing

2007-07-29, 18:47

Or he could pull out something like Precia :heh: Suicide by detonating his lab maybe

NO! WAY! Death by Davine Buster! Thats the only thing I will accept!:frustrated:

What he's doing to poor sweet little Vivio is unforgivable...:upset:

Icarus

2007-07-29, 18:48

Hayate without Rein Unison: walking time bomb.
Hayate with Rein Unison: laser-guided orbital cannon.

Jail is going to be on the receiving end of Fate's Zanber, that is a certainty.

DmonHiro

2007-07-29, 18:52

raidou

2007-07-29, 18:54

NO! WAY! Death by Davine Buster! Thats the only thing I will accept!:frustrated:

What he's doing to poor sweet littl Vivio is un forgivable...:upset:

Am all for him surviving till the end , maybe he will be crippled/coma or become lifeless/crazy.The numbers would take care of him and live happily ever after. :eyespin:

Cmon :heh: I dont see him much different from Precia anyways...not as much people flame Precia in the past >.>

DmonHiro

2007-07-29, 18:57

Am all for him surviving till the end , maybe he will be crippled/coma or become lifeless/crazy.The numbers would take care of him and live happily ever after. :eyespin:

Cmon :heh: I dont see him much different from Precia anyways...not as much people flame Precia in the past >.>

Lot's of people flamed Precia. But she jumped off a cliff and it's no fun to flame her anymore. I'm betting as soon as Jail visits her is "Was so close but now I'm dead" land, people will stop flaming him . BTW, what rank WAS Precia, she seemed pretty strong. On that note, how strong was Lindy, she stoped Precia.

Darco_emp

2007-07-29, 18:59

On second thought.......if Jail IS going to die, I think Fate would be the one to kill him. I can't really see Nanoha killing someone. Fate, Vita, Signum I can see blasting/stomping/cutting people apart but it just doesn't seem right if Nanoha does it. So I think Nanoha will beat the living/dying shit out of Jail, but not kill him. Or we could just have him stand in a deserted area an yell "I blew up you HQ" to Hayate.

The sweetest and cutest girls are the most dangerous look at Higurashi to see the proof in that. besides consider what Nanoha's family does impulse to do murder can be in her blood :uhoh:

I think shout to Hayate "I blew up all your cosplay gear" will have a much greater effect here :heh:, It will get Hayate to nuke even in a none deserted area :heh:

BTW, what rank WAS Precia, she seemed pretty strong. On that note, how strong was Lindy, she stoped Precia.

I remember Lindy was S rank, while I don't exactly remember Precia's rank I say about S rank too.

DmonHiro

2007-07-29, 19:05

It seems no matter who gets to Jail first, they are going to hurt him.....A LOT. Not that I mind really, I don't like those who hurts cute defensless charcters (does not apply to Higurashi, cause I have no clue if they do or do not deserve it. Also, stay AWAY from Shion, she snaps the nastiest)

asaqe

2007-07-29, 19:06

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 19:06

To be honest, I'm hoping they don't pull the reluctant "Dark Vivio" thing if it comes to that.

I'd rather Vivio awaken to her true self (( she's got amnesia d00d )) after Jail implants the Relic in her WHILE keeping the memories of herself back when she was the amnesiac Vivio.

Vivio : This is the real me. That little child you played with, the one who calls you mama... was nothing but a fragment of myself who then knew nothing of my true self.
Nanoha : Vivio, open your eyes. It's me, Nanoha-mama!
Vivio : You seem to be mistaken. I have not forgotten anything, our promise, the caramel milk, yubikiri... everything is clear to me. I merely awakened to my true self. So if you ask me to open my eyes, this is who I really am.

Something like that. :)

Am all for him surviving till the end , maybe he will be crippled/coma or become lifeless/crazy.The numbers would take care of him and live happily ever after. :eyespin:

Good end. I'd rather he just be crippled, but it's all good that way.

raidou

2007-07-29, 19:07

Lot's of people flamed Precia. But she jumped off a cliff and it's no fun to flame her anymore. I'm betting as soon as Jail visits her is "Was so close but now I'm dead" land, people will stop flaming him . BTW, what rank WAS Precia, she seemed pretty strong. On that note, how strong was Lindy, she stoped Precia.

Precia is S+ or higher if am not wrong but she was much weaker at the time of battle in 1st season.It was mentioned in one of the Soundstage.Lindy was S and just barely able to stop her.
People flame Precia but not as bad ...not many people saying something like her getting obliterated or impaled :heh:

Estavali

2007-07-29, 19:08

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 19:13

Anyone joining me in the hope that the OP animation will "updated" as the series rolls?

Subaru vs Nouve is just not as epic as Subaru vs Ginga.

Btw, I think the animators misplaced Ginga's injured arm. Was it the left one, instead of the right? (On hindsight, that means Nouve tore her arm off along with her Knuckles...)

Considering the animation approach they went, highly doubtful for the Subaru part.

They may add "Dark Vivio" to the part with Nanoha, or Due/Ginga to the Jail part, and any extra evil!boss!Client! to the current line of silhouettes around the part with Genya/Carim/Alto, but other than that, I don't see them actually updating the animation of S vs N to S vs G.

Darco_emp

2007-07-29, 19:21

Considering the animation approach they went, highly doubtful for the Subaru part.

They may add "Dark Vivio" to the part with Nanoha, or Due/Ginga to the Jail part, and any extra evil!boss!Client! to the current line of silhouettes around the part with Genya/Carim/Alto, but other than that, I don't see them actually updating the animation of S vs N to S vs G.

Consider the producers are taking the give no spoiler away path, If there is going to be a OP update then it will be most likely be after the event has occurred. Still I do have to agree with Estavali Subaru vs Ginga is more epic even if its abit overdone.

Sometimes I do hope sunrise was doing this since they give you everything in the OPs

Estavali

2007-07-29, 19:26

Considering the animation approach they went, highly doubtful for the Subaru part.

They may add "Dark Vivio" to the part with Nanoha, or Due/Ginga to the Jail part, and any extra evil!boss!Client! to the current line of silhouettes around the part with Genya/Carim/Alto, but other than that, I don't see them actually updating the animation of S vs N to S vs G.

Or perhaps Carol and Lutecia with their trumps as well (instead of Fried and Jirai-ou). Voltaire vs Hakuten-ou?

A thought. How did Tia know about Subaru's condition anyway? Confession? Accidental revelation? Did the manga say anything about this?

Dark Wing

2007-07-29, 19:31

I can actually see Lutecia and Agito definitely switching sides.:heh:

Zest…might really die. Shockingly.:rolleyes:

The Numbers…are imminently expendable.:D

Aaron008R

2007-07-29, 19:37

Well.:) What can I say? Quite an informative episode.

Firstly, about the OP.
- More focus on Subaru (no double knuckle?)
- I liked Teana's part.:D Double Gunblade+Crossfire Shoot Combo
- Fate is the most awesome in the OP due to Zamber action.:D
- Hayate doesn't fight in the OP.:sad:
- Summoner Battle (shoulda seen that coming from a mile away)
- Erio is boosting AWAY from Garyuu.:heh:
- Alt/Aruto is the new pilot of Storm Raider!!!:twitch:
- Vivio and Nanoha scene in the OP is kinda... ugh. Desperate.:(
- Arthra is the new Mobile Base (White Base? Argama?:p)
- Exceed mode... Just one shot.:heh:
- Signum vs Zest seems to be confirmed.:)

About the episode:
- Teana knew Subaru is a cyborg...:twitch:
- What's with the coincident about hair color with the Nakajima's?:heh:
- Erio is going to take lessons... from Signum... (Backs away from Nightengale:uhoh:)
- Hayate has a back and forth with Auris. Apparently, Regius' more questionable policies are still there.
- Vice seems to be out of it.:(
- The Arthra is repaired.:D
- Nanoha's upset... Perfectly understandable...:(
- Scaglietti is going to infuse Vivio with a relic!:eek:

Burner of Anime

2007-07-29, 19:39

Hayate without Rein Unison: walking time bomb.
Hayate with Rein Unison: laser-guided orbital cannon.

Jail is going to be on the receiving end of Fate's Zanber, that is a certainty.

My bet is an ignoble end via Subaru's "Heaven and Hell" attack plus IS/Velka cartridge overload. 10 clips hammered into into his sorry rear for Ginga abuse. Maybe she can borrow Graff Eisen while she's at it :heh:

Ya, shameless GGG reference :p.

Icarus

2007-07-29, 19:39

A thought. How did Tia know about Subaru's condition anyway? Confession? Accidental revelation? Did the manga say anything about this?

I commented a few pages back (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1067180&postcount=135).
Also: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1067084#post1067084

EDIT: Sorry, misread post. It's most likely Tea deduced it from all the little clues about Subaru (strength, speed, agility, lack of pain receptiveness etc), either that, or Subaru straight-up told her. Either way, she knew before RF6.

- Alt/Aruto is the new pilot of Storm Raider!!!:twitch:

In chapter 7 she mentions that she's going for her pilot's licence.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 19:56

- Hayate doesn't fight in the OP.:sad:
- Summoner Battle (shoulda seen that coming from a mile away)
- Erio is boosting AWAY from Garyuu.:heh:
- Alt/Aruto is the new pilot of Storm Raider!!!:twitch:
- Signum vs Zest seems to be confirmed.:)

- Technically, Hayate's not suppose to fight... But who am I trying to kid? :p
- Cat fight on an epic scale!!! :D
- Erio and Garyuu going 'Burnout' on each other? :D
- Aww... That's sweet, given her situation :p
- Should be interesting, she's been shafted in terms of battle enough times already.

About the episode:

- What's with the coincident about hair color with the Nakajima's?:heh:
- Erio is going to take lessons... from Signum... (Backs away from Nightengale:uhoh:)
- Hayate has a back and forth with Auris. Apparently, Regius' more questionable policies are still there.
- Vice seems to be out of it.:(
- The Arthra is repaired.:D

- Wow... They sure had us fooled there :heh:
- You can hear the voices too?! I thought I was the only one who sensed it!
- I wonder why Auris protects Regius... *coughscandalcough*
- Probably for a very long time... His 'mystery' is solved, no real need for him much longer...
- As expected... One last adventure...

P.S - I'm surprised... I would expect you of all people to point out the C&C :p

Estavali

2007-07-29, 20:00

- Probably for a very long time... His 'mystery' is solved, no real need for him much longer...

.... There goes my wish for more in-depth TiaXVice interaction. So all this while he was paying more attention to her only because she (almost) made a mis-shot like him? Argh, the disappointment!

FlareKnight

2007-07-29, 20:01

Yeah somehow I can see the Asura going down in one blaze of glory in order to destroy Scag's base or something. If Chrono didn't have a new ship ready he could've always hung out at Carim's place some more while waiting for the new ship.

I'm sure Erio is just luring Garyuu into a cleverly planned trap...:heh: At least he'll get some lessons on how to kick ass after the most likely intense training with Signum. At this rate if we don't see something concerning that from Nightengale it seems some will be surprised.

Yeah the positive is that it seems Signum is finally going to get a real fight this time. No more just beating up on drones (which she didn't do much of anyways). Think she'll probably not need Rein for this and will take on the Zest/Agito duo by herself.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 20:08

.... There goes my wish for more in-depth TiaXVice interaction. So all this while he was paying more attention to her only because she (almost) made a mis-shot like him? Argh, the disappointment!

AND that she's a young, attractive teenage girl who was feeling vulnerable and confused at the time...

Yeah somehow I can see the Asura going down in one blaze of glory in order to destroy Scag's base or something. If Chrono didn't have a new ship ready he could've always hung out at Carim's place some more while waiting for the new ship.

"Ram the Blade Ship..."

I'm sure Erio is just luring Garyuu into a cleverly planned trap...:heh: At least he'll get some lessons on how to kick ass after the most likely intense training with Signum. At this rate if we don't see something concerning that from Nightengale it seems some will be surprised.

Erio: "You're fast, bug... But I'm faster."

Yeah the positive is that it seems Signum is finally going to get a real fight this time. No more just beating up on drones (which she didn't do much of anyways). Think she'll probably not need Rein for this and will take on the Zest/Agito duo by herself.

... I can't think of any one-liner for this :heh:

Oh wait!

Signum: "I'm not a submissive-uke..."

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 20:10

.... There goes my wish for more in-depth TiaXVice interaction. So all this while he was paying more attention to her only because she (almost) made a mis-shot like him? Argh, the disappointment!

Makes you wonder why they even bothered to develop him that much (( in comparison to other side-characters )) if they only intended to give him 5-seconds worth of backstory...

Yeah the positive is that it seems Signum is finally going to get a real fight this time. No more just beating up on drones (which she didn't do much of anyways). Think she'll probably not need Rein for this and will take on the Zest/Agito duo by herself.

I doubt it. Nanoha-staff hates spoilers so much that they couldn't even so much show Number II, Due in the OP even for a single freaking second, so they're probably just keeping Unison Signum under wraps. What's the point of saying "Hey, Signum can unison too" but never getting to it? It's pointless after how much they build up Zest to be powerful enough that without Rein, Vita would've died.

As for Garyuu/Elio, just like how Fried pretty much gave Elio his GJ approval, now he's trying to vy for Garyuu's...makes sense, no? :p

Signum/Elio...no comment. I'll leave it to the next episode to see how much of a reaction it can ignite from me.

On another note of a relationship...

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7489/002ug9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Another beautiful relationship. C'mon, just look at the "evil glitter" and "teh smirk" on their faces, synchronized. :p

Fabien

2007-07-29, 20:17

AND that she's a young, attractive teenage girl

I just can't fathom Vice as a lolicon.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 20:18

Makes you wonder why they even bothered to develop him that much (( in comparison to other side-characters )) if they only intended to give him 5-seconds worth of backstory...

Red-herring! :mad:

As for Garyuu/Elio, just like how Fried pretty much gave Elio his approval, now he's trying to vy for Garyuu's...makes sense, no? :p

Well, I guess that's one way to start... :heh:

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7489/002ug9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Another beautiful relationship. C'mon, just look at the "evil glitter" in their eyes. :p

Thought you were planning on having Jail dump her for a 'bigger number'? :p

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 20:24

Thought you were planning on having Jail dump her for a 'bigger number'? :p

Only if brainwashing's not involved. :p

Besides, Uno still is the big waifu/onee-sama of the family. And I won't be surprised if Tre and Uno are blood-related to Jail.

Dark Wing

2007-07-29, 20:26

- Erio is boosting AWAY from Garyuu.:heh:

actually if you look closely you can see that it's Garyuu's reflection in Eroi's eyes...

also Uno and Doc look just alike...

krisslanza

2007-07-29, 20:31

Oooh nice OP, although it's a low quality (Unless a higher quality was uploaded since I last came by... XD)

ARGH. Wanna see the RAW. To bad RAWs don't appear on Veoh for 2-3 days... *Sad*

FlareKnight

2007-07-29, 20:38

As for Garyuu/Elio, just like how Fried pretty much gave Elio his GJ approval, now he's trying to vy for Garyuu's...makes sense, no? :p
Hmm may have a point there :). Going with the old if you can't beat me you don't have a chance with my master kind've thing. Unlike though making buddies with Fried, Erio has to beat Garyuu into the ground.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 20:43

Only if brainwashing's not involved. :p

Besides, Uno still is the big waifu/onee-sama of the family. And I won't be surprised if Tre and Uno are blood-related to Jail.

OR! It could just be a coincident! :D

(Hey, they've done it once...)

actually if you look closely you can see that it's Garyuu's reflection in Eroi's eyes...

Well, that makes things alot easier now :p

also Uno and Doc look just alike...

Coincidence coincidence...

Hmm may have a point there :). Going with the old if you can't beat me you don't have a chance with my master kind've thing. Unlike though making buddies with Fried, Erio has to beat Garyuu into the ground.

Yes, that's one way to get her attention.

Aaron008R

2007-07-29, 20:53

I commented a few pages back (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1067180&postcount=135).
Also: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1067084#post1067084

EDIT: Sorry, misread post. It's most likely Tea deduced it from all the little clues about Subaru (strength, speed, agility, lack of pain receptiveness etc), either that, or Subaru straight-up told her. Either way, she knew before RF6.

I see...

In chapter 7 she mentions that she's going for her pilot's licence.

Manga? Ah, ok. Thanks.:)

- Technically, Hayate's not suppose to fight... But who am I trying to kid? :p
- Cat fight on an epic scale!!! :D
- Aww... That's sweet, given her situation :p
- Should be interesting, she's been shafted in terms of battle enough times already.

- Who indeed.:heh:
- Are carrots involved? (being random)
- Maybe they could show some weapons now.
- Always arriving late.:heh:

- You can hear the voices too?! I thought I was the only one who sensed it!
- I wonder why Auris protects Regius... *coughscandalcough*
- Probably for a very long time... His 'mystery' is solved, no real need for him much longer...
- As expected... One last adventure...

P.S - I'm surprised... I would expect you of all people to point out the C&C :p

- Of course I know! Kha is another one whose only too familiar with that.:heh:
- Funding for cosplay?:heh:
- Not good enough! We need a trauma recovery!
- Going out in a blaze of glory? Sounds good enough.

P.S. WHat C&C?:confused:

AND that she's a young, attractive teenage girl who was feeling vulnerable and confused at the time...

You made that sound so wrong. Or maybe it's just me.:heh:

"Ram the Blade Ship..."

Where's the Kurogane when you need it? (SRW reference)

Signum: "I'm not a submissive-uke..."

Then what? "My muscles are not fake!":heh:

As for Garyuu/Elio, just like how Fried pretty much gave Elio his GJ approval, now he's trying to vy for Garyuu's...makes sense, no? :p[QUOTE]

In a different sense, yes.:heh:

[QUOTE=Dark Wing;1067369]actually if you look closely you can see that it's Garyuu's reflection in Eroi's eyes...

also Uno and Doc look just alike...

Thanks for the heads up.:)

Estavali

2007-07-29, 20:56

also Uno and Doc look just alike...

Actually both Uno and Tre look as if they are related to Scaglietti. They have the same eyes for one, and their hair color is almost the same too (come to think of it, of the Numbers, if we don't include Lutecia's mom, only Uno and Tre have purplish hair).

It's possible that the top three Numbers may be Scaglietti's family members (of course, with Due missing, this is pretty much speculation).

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 21:06

P.S. WHat C&C?:confused:

Chrono and Carim.

The fact that they were together isn't too strange on its own... but recall that Chrono was supposed to be on a mission during the Presentation... and lookie here, just one day later, and he's sitting comfortably next to Carim. :p

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 21:12

- Are carrots involved? (being random)
- Maybe they could show some weapons now.

- I'm thinking REDdish
- Ah, you misunderstood...

- Of course I know! Kha is another one whose only too familiar with that.:heh:
- Funding for cosplay?:heh:

- Ah well...
- Erm, yaaa~.... 'Cosplay'... We could call it that... :uhoh:

P.S. WHat C&C?:confused:

You know... THAT C&C ... :heh: (Think hard)

You made that sound so wrong. Or maybe it's just me.:heh:

It's not you, I'm just good at it :p

Then what? "My muscles are not fake!":heh:

Perfect :)

Aaron008R

2007-07-29, 22:22

Chrono and Carim.

The fact that they were together isn't too strange on its own... but recall that Chrono was supposed to be on a mission during the Presentation... and lookie here, just one day later, and he's sitting comfortably next to Carim. :p

It seemed to have slipped my mind.:heh: But WTH?!?!:twitch: You're right! Just what is his mission anyway?!:frustrated: Looking after attractive females? If that's the case, then he should be standing guard around RF6!!!:eyespin:
:dots:
Oh, wait... Right... HIs wallet...:heh:

IN any case, not even the spoilers for episode 19 has any mention of him. Just what the hell could be his mission?

- I'm thinking REDdish
- Ah, you misunderstood...

- I see...
- Not really. I just digressed.:heh: I know about the thing between her and Vice.

It's not you, I'm just good at it :p

Shouldn't have thought otherwise.:heh: Well, that could maek a great scenario.:uhoh:

Perfect :)

Thanks.:D

Meophist

2007-07-29, 22:31

Let the battle begin, and I don't mean the one of the show.

While Scag HAS been acting like a jerk all this time, there was at least the chance that he wasn't all what he seemed (mad scientist with not much respect for others). While he may have some plan in mind with Vivio, I just can't find excuses for that particular scene. He could hva ehad Vivio unconscios, for example (don't even start with the "ritual would not work unless awake" stuff). True, he may not be a COMPLETE sociopath, but he does exibit at least some of the characteristics (disregard for the rights of others, unable to conform to what society defines as a normal, shows a lack of regret in his actions). If he is indeen a sociopath, that I can't see a reason for people to support him, regardless of his plans.Scagaletti has indeed been shown as being quite self-absorbed and generally uncaring or unknowing of others' thoughts and feelings. Obviously the matter of Vivio been conscious for the… err… whatever he was doing was a matter of efficiency. Whether she was awake or not didn't matter, and getting her to sleep first takes more time and effort. As for judgement upon the scene, it really depends on what he's trying to do. I believe it's quite possible that he has some sort of social or mental disorder, although that doesn't make him evil.

The one things that makes me really wonder is the relationship between the doctor and Lutecia. It's obviously more than a simple "you help me and I help you" relationship. He freely shares information with her and generally seems closer to her than he is with his Numbers. What he requests out of her is simply that, requests. He doesn't order her around and it doesn't seem like he'll hold it against her if she refuses. They are nice to each other, and I doubt that her judge of character is that bad. Her mother's revival is something she wants, but it doesn't give him control of her or anything.

Another thing is that the Zest and Agito are at least somewhat separate from Lutecia. We actually have three enemy groups: Lutecia, Zest and Agito, Scagaletti and the Numbers. Unlike what we've seen from the early-ish episodes, it seems that Zest and Agito are doing separate things from Lutecia, who is again doing something separate from Scagaletti and the Numbers. Odd, though, that they picked up Agito on Lutecia's suggestion, but she ends up closer to Zest. I'm not going to speculate on Zest's relationship with the General though.

For the first time, RF6 seems quite underpowered. The Strikers seems to have "leveled-up" to a similar level to the limited Aces but it doesn't seem like it's enough to make up for the lack of numbers. In the opening, we see the Lightning Strikers up against Lutecia and the Wolkenritter seems to be aimed towards Zest and Agito. That means we only have the Aces and the two Stars Strikers to go up against the Numbers. They may be strong, but they're still outnumbered 3-to-1. I can't see Subaru and Teana being able to take on more than five of the Numbers at once(even four is pushing it), and even Nanoha and Fate will have a hard time taking on the other seven. This isn't even taking in account Ginga, whatever may happen to her. Perhaps unlimited Nanoha and Fate might be able to do something, but I have my doubts about even that.

As for Ginga, I doubt believe she's going to become turned. I can see experimentation happening to her, and "something" near the end. What I think may happen is that she's going to escape around the time of the final battle and Scagaletti won't care about her. He would've used the data he gained in analysing her to upgrade the numbers. They will be significantly stronger than they are now. That's what I think.

I think Vita is going to go more to the background now, placing more emphasis on Signum and Schach. For that matter, I think that more emphasis will be on Alto and Lucino. Background characters are going to be rotated so that more of them can get more screentime and background.

Scagaletti seems to be Fate's personal enemy at the moment. If anybody, she's going to be the one to take him out. I'm sure they'll have a big speech at the end, Gundam style. Subaru's is with the Numbers, Signum/Vita and Reinforce Ⅱ is with Zest and Agito on Belkan grounds, Caro is with Lutecia for a yet-to-be-revealed reason(possibly relating to mothers) and Erio might be the same by extention. Hayate's battle look to be more internal. Teana is really left without a specific cause for battle other than simply being with RF6 and Subaru. However, there might be something new revealed involving her brother.

As for Nanoha, her current mission is reuniting with Vivio. She will meet again with Vivio, I'm sure about that. However, I believe that the meeting will be short-lived. For one reason or another, I think that one of the two will not survive long after the encounter, the other, however will return in safety. I simply can't think of the two being perfectly fine for the ending, particularly with how the opening portrayed their reunion.

That said, I don't believe the Numbers will die. At the very least, not all of them. In fact, I don't believe many characters will die at all. I see a high possiblity of Zest and possibly the General(why does it always have to be the guys?) and Carim dying but little beyond that. Although, I can't say I'll be too surprised if Lutecia dies, however much that defies convention. As for the most obvious possible death, Scagaletti, it's actually a little hard to see for me. The thing is, I don't think he'll mind, but I also don't think he'll be one to commit suicide. However, the thing that lends to him possibly dying is that I don't think it'll be easy for the TSAB to keep him in prison, for various reasons.

In any case, that's what I've thought of so far. I'll post again with more thoughts once I think of them.

LoweGear

2007-07-29, 22:46

*jumps in*

Don't think I can comment much on this episode till I see the raw, but DAMN... OP certainly brings back memories of the action-packed Eternal Blaze OP... and that's a good thing :D

And...

Ware wa Fate Testarossa! Aku wo Tatsu Tsurugi Nari!!!

Waga Zanber ni Tateni Mono Nashi!!!

Burner of Anime

2007-07-29, 22:58

For the first time, RF6 seems quite underpowered. The Strikers seems to have "leveled-up" to a similar level to the limited Aces but it doesn't seem like it's enough to make up for the lack of numbers. In the opening, we see the Lightning Strikers up against Lutecia and the Wolkenritter seems to be aimed towards Zest and Agito. That means we only have the Aces and the two Stars Strikers to go up against the Numbers. They may be strong, but they're still outnumbered 3-to-1. I can't see Subaru and Teana being able to take on more than five of the Numbers at once(even four is pushing it), and even Nanoha and Fate will have a hard time taking on the other seven. This isn't even taking in account Ginga, whatever may happen to her. Perhaps unlimited Nanoha and Fate might be able to do something, but I have my doubts about even that.

There's still Caro's tanking boost to factor in, adding this to the forwards is already pretty nasty- what if a captain gets boosted instead? :uhoh:

Against the drone horde, it's probably helps that R6 is taking along an interdimensional battleship as a equaliser. Looking ahead, the manpower shortage can probably be covered by Chrono and the Saint Church while the casualties from the last battle recover.

Anyway, I doubt that the Numbers will do any pairing off in the final fight. Their specialisation and dependence on drones for their AMF means that they will be engaged in groups vs R6. Also helps that their last engagement vs R6 have resulted in draws and a number of critical injuries to the Numbers. I suspect the climax battle will have everyone come out in force, with both sides attempting to overcome the other side as quickly as possible.

Dark Wing

2007-07-29, 23:06

What I really don't get is why people like to make these grim predictions when comes to RF6 vs. the Numbers. I mean come on have a little faith in the in ourheroes people.:rolleyes:

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 23:11

What I really don't get is why people like to make these grim predictions when comes to RF6 vs. the Numbers. I mean come on have a little faith in the in ourheroes people.:rolleyes:

Faith? They'll win surely, what need is there for faith? :rolleyes:

The seemingly nature of the upcoming events really further proves the condition. ONLY RF6 will most likely be the one to win and beat Scaglietti...which once again, puts StrikerS in the similar nature of A's and Season 1, just another case in the logs of TSAB events.

And for all those limited Aces talk, except Hayate (( who doesn't fight much anyway )), they are not bound to any restrictions as Hayate can release anyone of them without limit. Case in point, episode 17. Zest wouldn't retreat if it's only so much a few AAs. He was worried because it's a few over S.

Yeah, I think all battles after this can be presumed to be all limiters off except for Hayate.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 23:25

It seemed to have slipped my mind.:heh: But WTH?!?!:twitch: You're right! Just what is his mission anyway?!:frustrated: Looking after attractive females? If that's the case, then he should be standing guard around RF6!!!:eyespin:
:dots:
Oh, wait... Right... His wallet...:heh:

Okay, assuming his mission does indeed take him far away from Mid-Childa, and that he is leet enough to finish it in one day...

Why did he head to the Saint Church first when Ground Zero is at the Captial City?

IN any case, not even the spoilers for episode 19 has any mention of him. Just what the hell could be his mission?

I myself am curious as to what kind of missions are Admirals given?

Unless Chrono is first and foremost still an Enforcer...?

Meophist

2007-07-29, 23:32

Faith? They'll win surely, what need is there for faith? :rolleyes:

The seemingly nature of the upcoming events really further proves the condition. ONLY RF6 will most likely be the one to win and beat Scaglietti...which once again, puts StrikerS in the similar nature of A's and Season 1, just another case in the logs of TSAB events.Well, of course. I'm not going to say that they're not going to win. I just believe that the RF6 may not be able to win outright a all-foes-vs-RF6 situation. I imagine it'll be more similar to Lutecia and Zest+Agito being put out early, and the end battle will be RF6 vs Numbers + Drones. That way RF6 doesn't have to deal with all 15+ enemies at once.And for all those limited Aces talk, except Hayate (( who doesn't fight much anyway )), they are not bound to any restrictions as Hayate can release anyone of them without limit. Case in point, episode 17. Zest wouldn't retreat if it's only so much a few AAs. He was worried because it's a few over S.Not too sure about that. I don't think Zest is quite aware too much about the strength of RF6. Considering that he just used his overdrive, he might have retreated because his condition isn't so great right after one. I don't think there's been any indication that the limiters can just be released like that.

Oh right:What I really don't get is why people like to make these grim predictions when comes to RF6 vs. the Numbers. I mean come on have a little faith in the in ourheroes people.:rolleyes:"Our heroes", huh? I wouldn't underestimate the foes of Nanoha either. Precia > Nanoha and Fate, Reinforce > Nanoha and Fate, and Signum ≥ Fate in terms of battle skill/level.There's still Caro's tanking boost to factor in, adding this to the forwards is already pretty nasty- what if a captain gets boosted instead? :uhoh:I was going by the assumption that it'll be all-on-all battle, in which case I think Caro will be a bit too pre-occupied with Lutecia to boost Nanoha or Fate.Against the drone horde, it's probably helps that R6 is taking along an interdimensional battleship as a equaliser. Looking ahead, the manpower shortage can probably be covered by Chrono and the Saint Church while the casualties from the last battle recover.True, but we still haven't seen any weapons the battleship has other than Arc-en-Ciel, which isn't quite the best weapon to use in the middle of battle. As such, I cannot rate its effectiveness.Anyway, I doubt that the Numbers will do any pairing off in the final fight. Their specialisation and dependence on drones for their AMF means that they will be engaged in groups vs R6. Also helps that their last engagement vs R6 have resulted in draws and a number of critical injuries to the Numbers. I suspect the climax battle will have everyone come out in force, with both sides attempting to overcome the other side as quickly as possible.And, well, that's the problem. RF6 is quite vastly outnumbered. The situations I posted was with a group vs the RF6. Since Lutecia and Zest will preoccupy some of the RF6, the Numbers has a 12-on-4 numerical advantage against the rest, and I imagine that the Numbers will take full advantage of that.

And: *waves at Chaos2Frozen*

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 23:35

And: *waves at Chaos2Frozen*

Oh my- :twitch: :eek: :twitch:

Nightengale

2007-07-29, 23:37

Oh my- :twitch: :eek: :twitch:

Took you this long to notice? :rolleyes:

I don't think Zest is quite aware too much about the strength of RF6. Considering that he just used his overdrive, he might have retreated because his condition isn't so great right after one. I don't think there's been any indication that the limiters can just be released like that.

Actually, Zest sensed the movements of several over S mages, which was what prompted him to release unison and intended to retreat BEFORE going Full Drive to save Agito. And yes, there are such indications. Fate mentioned in 12 about releasing her own limiter to deal a map-attack to the Drones, and Hayate easily removed Nanoha's limiters for her to enter Exceed Mode and stop an S-rank attack. So, yeah...aside from Hayate's own, everyone else's is a piece of cake.

Jimmy C

2007-07-29, 23:38

There's still Caro's tanking boost to factor in, what if a captain gets boosted instead? [

There's a limit to how much of a boost Caro can give. Say, at maximum, she can boost one of her fellow Forwards to twice their normal power, I doubt it would mean more than a 10% boost to a Captain. And she probably couldn't sustain it for very long.

Aaron008R

2007-07-29, 23:38

Oh my- :twitch: :eek: :twitch:

Or maybe... You're surprised by the wave?:eyebrow:

Anyway, haven't seen you for quite a while Meophist.:) Kha has been looking for you in the OC Thread.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-29, 23:44

@Nightengale & Aaron008R

A little from column 'A', and a little from column 'B'

:twitch: :eek: :twitch:

Meophist

2007-07-29, 23:57

Anyway, haven't seen you for quite a while Meophist.:) Kha has been looking for you in the OC Thread.I've been a little busy. As for the OC Thread, I've been meaning to go back to that thread, but, well… I'll get there sometime. I should finish up my next update soon.

Key Board

2007-07-30, 00:00

Good point, but its makes you wonder if Scaliegtii will do anything to brutally traumatize Ginga when she recovers then throw her back in the Jar when she freaks out in a frenzy (Think about it...tell her about how she was only adopted and that Scaliegtii is her father among all things. Subaru while she got the info in a generally TSAB matter, no doubt Jail will use his side of the story to break Ginga)

Actually he did NOT make Ginga and Subaru

the episode confirms that they were designed by an unknown person
The numbers were based on Ginga and Subaru.

As I said before, Megaman X theory. Ginga and Subaru are the originals. Numbers are reverse engineered descendents

And Ginga and Subaru definitely know about their own bodies and past

Adr 00

2007-07-30, 00:12

Seems there wont be a 4th faction after all...............

Key Board

2007-07-30, 00:14

Well.. I don't trust Verossa at all.

Furthermore, who made Vivio?

Nightengale

2007-07-30, 00:15

Actually he did NOT make Ginga and Subaru

the episode confirms that they were designed by an unknown person
The numbers were based on Ginga and Subaru.

As I said before, Megaman X theory. Ginga and Subaru are the originals. Numbers are reverse engineered descendents

And Ginga and Subaru definitely know about their own bodies and past

Well, while it's true that he didn't create them, wasn't he the one who (( once again )) was the baseliner for man-machine hybrid technology of Sentoukijins?

Funny how his "developed baselines" all get exploited by other scientists, be it man-machine or Project F. He wasn't very tight-lipped on copyrights, huh? :heh:

Adr 00

2007-07-30, 00:17

Well.. I don't trust Verossa at all.

Furthermore, who made Vivio?

Probably the same mystery 3rd or 4th faction.

Aaron008R

2007-07-30, 00:19

Well, while it's true that he didn't create them, wasn't he the one who (( once again )) was the baseliner for man-machine hybrid technology of Sentoukijins?

Funny how his "developed baselines" all get exploited by other scientists, be it man-machine or Project F. He wasn't very tight-lipped on copyrights, huh? :heh:

Well... There has already been several instances about people patenting other people's work.:heh:

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-30, 00:20

Funny how his "developed baselines" all get exploited by other scientists, be it man-machine or Project F. He wasn't very tight-lipped on copyrights, huh? :heh:

Well, you've seen how he's like :heh: He's not afraid to brag.

Key Board

2007-07-30, 00:26

Quatro says Ginga uses technology developed by the doctor, but she doesn't know who her created Ginga

That's why they don't know much about Subaru's IS capabilities

but an originator of a scientific theory being surpassed by another one in the same field isn't exactly new.

And baseliner has a broad meaning, you know. Regius was a baseliner for artificial mages and sentoukijin too in the past

Adr 00

2007-07-30, 00:33

sigh....looks liek a gloom future for Erio.............

does any one have pictures of the preview?

Key Board

2007-07-30, 00:35

Why is it gloom?

I'm quite sure Signum won't kill him in the next episode

Adr 00

2007-07-30, 00:36

Why is it gloom?

I'm quite sure Signum won't kill him in the next episode

Gloom as in not being able to get character development or showing cool moves.

Nightengale

2007-07-30, 00:39

but an originator of a scientific theory being surpassed by another one in the same field isn't exactly new.

And baseliner has a broad meaning, you know. Regius was a baseliner for artificial mages and sentoukijin too in the past

Well, that's true. Project F seems to be one example too. Otherwise, was there even a need for him to be interested in Fate and Elio back at Ep.5? Then again...he didn't include them in the attack's mission objectives... Wonder why?

Well, from what I interpreted, Regius's involvement was more of a push-towards-it-being-developed alongside possibly funding and stuff, while Jail's was more intellect. So, it's a comparative of baselining from an intellectual, theoretical sense vs the legalization and monetary sense.

Zest was probably a surviving a.mage from one of Regius's involved past skeletons. Since jealousy runs hand in hand with imitation and flattery, it's possible that he pushed for the development of Artificial Ancient Belka types, since legitimate ones seem rare as hell, only 3 actual living ones recorded.

Aaron008R

2007-07-30, 00:42

Well... He's being trained by Signum starting next ep. So It's at least a given that he'll pull off something cool sometime later.:heh: Hey, Thunder Rage was quite useful already, right?

Key Board

2007-07-30, 00:43

True, but I don't think he deserves all the credit.

Scag wasn't the only one working on the project. There were several other scientists. I'm think that even Precia was involved with some of the research. Her field was dimensional science IIRC

serenade_beta

2007-07-30, 00:46

Random notes I made after watching only the Numbers/Jail parts + Zest:

Cinque was badly damaged from her fight with Subaru
My thought process at this time: Cinque uses Rumble Detonator... ? damage... Subaru has 5 HP left... Cinque ran out of TP/MP...
Subaru uses (insert IS)... Critical Hit... Cinque has 1 HP left
Sein appears (new enemy has arrived)
Cinque and Sein run away with Deep Diver
No EXP earned because foes ran away

Lutecia wants the relic for her mom, but she only thinks that the woman is her mom. She has no memories of her mom. (Jail could be easily deceiving her, or maybe not).

Zest acts coldly to Uno. Maybe it is just the quality of the video, but she seemed somewhat saddened with his attitude. They were "allies", but he just didn't care much with his "you don't need me anymore, right?" attitude.

Uno and Jail= In tune. Their smiles made me laugh. Good face to make in front of Vivio.

Quattro- scaring Vivio and saying that no one will save her no matter how much she screams or cries. (But it's okay, it was enjoyable).

Aaron008R

2007-07-30, 00:46

Well, that's true. Project F seems to be one example too. Otherwise, was there even a need for him to be interested in Fate and Elio back at Ep.5? Then again...he didn't include them in the attack's mission objectives... Wonder why?

Well, from what I interpreted, Regius's involvement was more of a push-towards-it-being-developed alongside possibly funding and stuff, while Jail's was more intellect. So, it's a comparative of baselining from an intellectual, theoretical sense vs the legalization and monetary sense.

Zest was probably a surviving a.mage from one of Regius's involved past skeletons. Since jealousy runs hand in hand with imitation and flattery, it's possible that he pushed for the development of Artificial Ancient Belka types, since legitimate ones seem rare as hell, only 3 actual living ones recorded.

In that's the case, then it means more skeletons in the cabinet for dickhead Regius. And to think he has so much influence... I'll wait for a chance to see if Zest and Regius ever comes face-to-face.

Adr 00

2007-07-30, 00:53

Well... He's being trained by Signum starting next ep. So It's at least a given that he'll pull off something cool sometime later.:heh: Hey, Thunder Rage was quite useful already, right?

Was expecting him to be at Fate's level in the first season

arkhangelsk

2007-07-30, 00:58

For the first time, RF6 seems quite underpowered. The Strikers seems to have "leveled-up" to a similar level to the limited Aces but it doesn't seem like it's enough to make up for the lack of numbers. In the opening, we see the Lightning Strikers up against Lutecia and the Wolkenritter seems to be aimed towards Zest and Agito. That means we only have the Aces and the two Stars Strikers to go up against the Numbers. They may be strong, but they're still outnumbered 3-to-1. I can't see Subaru and Teana being able to take on more than five of the Numbers at once(even four is pushing it), and even Nanoha and Fate will have a hard time taking on the other seven. This isn't even taking in account Ginga, whatever may happen to her. Perhaps unlimited Nanoha and Fate might be able to do something, but I have my doubts about even that.

Will have to agree. Most of the reserve is out already on both sides, and the correlation does not look good.

The two forwards will be lucky to even take out our old friends 5,9 and 11 if they improve their troop control. The important thing is to quickly hit Teana with those chains - she won't survive the attack nearly as well as Subaru (who was at best one attack away from being broken herself). Her decoys will be much less effective without Caro so hitting her won't be much of a pain. Use either 9 or 11 in a sacrificial delaying attack on Subaru. Heck, forget the "Or", use 9, because 11 has the tool you need next (and I'm not sure I like 9 either, so her dying doesn't bother me as much).

Now, after taking out Teana, 5 and 11 are to get onto that skateboard thing and retreat, full speed. Because they are both really mid-range fighters and Subaru is a close range fighter with a limited medium range ability, the important thing is to maintain distance from her deadly but zero-range IS and blast her until she's so damaged that even berserked and desperate there isn't enough cyborg circuitry to keep her running.

Now for the air. Put all the remaining Numbers in a free-for-all. The bigger the fight, the more I can employ combined arms. If Hayate comes out this time, use some of my Numbers to engage Nanoha and Fate and use one or two to hit Hayate, otherwise just concentrate on the pair for a defeat in detail before Hayate gets onto the field. If I stick to close combat the girls can't power up some really deadly attacks to blast my Numbers...

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-30, 00:58

In that's the case, then it means more skeletons in the cabinet for dickhead Regius. And to think he has so much influence... I'll wait for a chance to see if Zest and Regius ever comes face-to-face.

Well, I doubt one could give to such a high post without getting oneself dirty.

Everyone has skeletons, what they don't all have is proof :p.

And Zest is probably his biggest Skeleton.

Was expecting him to be at Fate's level in the first season

Fate was lucky (In that sense), the magic that had killed Alicia gave her her magic potential.

Project F doesn't make super soldiers.

Ultima_Rasengan05

2007-07-30, 00:58

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-30, 01:04

I guess even though we were speculating that there won't be anymore training from episode 17 and on, they still decided that the Forwards need a little bit more...I guess this will be the last training session they'll have?
Its a pretty interesting one, Signum vs. Erio...Lighting 02 vs. Lightning 03.

Just speculation since I haven't seen the preview yet, but perhaps this is just Erio's request?

For a Sparta training... Ichigo-style :p

Ultima_Rasengan05

2007-07-30, 01:11

maybe signum knows some techniques to teach Erio on how to use his Mode 2 Strada more efficiently...with all of those boosters on each side of Strada, there seems to be boundless strategies with his Mode 2.

About the new opening, if they do the same combatant pairing as the opening, then Signum will surely take on Zest in the final fight.

Aaron008R

2007-07-30, 01:11

Just speculation since I haven't seen the preview yet, but perhaps this is just Erio's request?

For a Sparta training... Ichigo-style :p

In a way, he's in over his head.:uhoh:
At least that should give Signum and Strada's other forms some screentime for the next ep.:heh: And while their at it, show a glimpse of the other forms of the devices of the other forwards as well.:heh:

Nightengale

2007-07-30, 01:14

Ultima_Rasengan05

2007-07-30, 01:15

yea Subaru's mode 2 for Mach Calibur. I would want to see that form...if its repaired by that time that is...and Caro's mode 2 for Kerykerion...if Voltaire counts as Mode 2 for her already, but I would just call that an upgraded summon instead.:heh:

Key Board

2007-07-30, 01:16

Aaron008R

2007-07-30, 01:20

I'm still hoping that Jail too, has something up his own sleeve.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/769/0012tc5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It's probably just a style decoration since it's [] shaped style is different from Uno's I shape on her tie, but it doesn't hurt to hope, right? :uhoh:

Hmm... Maybe. Since he is a mad scientist after all, he should at least have some sort of personal contingency plan. Wait, the Jewel Seeds were stolen, right? No more mentions of those?

Key Board

2007-07-30, 01:23

I think the Jewel Seeds were reverse engineered as chips, actually

Aaron008R

2007-07-30, 01:26

Is that so? Well, it certainly feels like a waste. Those Lost Logia could be used for something like a Super-Drone due to their high latent energy potential

Guppy

2007-07-30, 01:28

Now for the air. Put all the remaining Numbers in a free-for-all. The bigger the fight, the more I can employ combined arms. If Hayate comes out this time, use some of my Numbers to engage Nanoha and Fate and use one or two to hit Hayate, otherwise just concentrate on the pair for a defeat in detail before Hayate gets onto the field. If I stick to close combat the girls can't power up some really deadly attacks to blast my Numbers...I'm not sure I agree on that one. Firstly, not all of the Numbers are at home in the air, limiting the available force size. Secondly, a huge close-combat brawl is asking quite a bit of the Numbers' ability to precisely coordinate their teamwork, excellent though it is, and avoid fratricides (sororicides?). Hayate's lack of pinpoint accuracy certainly makes her vulnerable on the battlefield, but her wide-area attacks might make it risky to close with her, especially in groups. Nanoha could well be the toughest nut to crack by swarming, despite her relative weakness in melee, because of her demonstrated excellence at engaging multiple targets from medium to close ranges.

If you're going to play the swarming game, then I'd be inclined to commit a delaying force to hold up the three Aces in the air, concentrating on evasive and defensive ability rather than sheer offense. Meanwhile, focus on overrunning the Stars forwards, who have the least ability to disengage from a bad situation (Subaru can be fast, but I doubt she'll abandon her partner). If the Aces can be forced to come down to surface level to bail out their subordinates, then they can be swarmed effectively by the ground-combat Numbers, while the aerial Numbers provide overhead cover and cut off the upward escape route.

Burner of Anime

2007-07-30, 01:34

.I was going by the assumption that it'll be all-on-all battle, in which case I think Caro will be a bit too pre-occupied with Lutecia to boost Nanoha or Fate.

Have to agree that Caro, while quite the gamebreaker, has need to be present to use her Boosts. Lute can spam hers and are autonomous. I suppose it'll all come down to wheter or not they will engage one another and be otherwise occupied to use tanking spells on their respective sides.

In their direct encounters however, I'd say Caro is a probably the better summoner- though she'd probably lose if the contest was solely on personal offensive/defensive power.

True, but we still haven't seen any weapons the battleship has other than Arc-en-Ciel, which isn't quite the best weapon to use in the middle of battle. As such, I cannot rate its effectiveness.

Always held that a mobile assault base would be a good thing to have. If it had stealth capacity then it'll at least have a chance to be unsinkable :heh: [unlike modern aircraft carriers]. Also, a giant 10km wide beam dimensional distruption weapon is always appreciated.

And, well, that's the problem. RF6 is quite vastly outnumbered. The situations I posted was with a group vs the RF6. Since Lutecia and Zest will preoccupy some of the RF6, the Numbers has a 12-on-4 numerical advantage against the rest, and I imagine that the Numbers will take full advantage of that.

More like 9 combat effective Numbers seen so far + 3 freelancers c/w summons vs 8 R6 agent at the frontline, their commander plus medic and miniboss :cool:. Between them we have a scary horde of drones, swarms of bugs, a flight of dragons and the above mentioned battleship. Also, R6 may have combat parity since their cross training allows them to cover one another and face many times their own. The forwards have extensive training tagging [or attempting to :uhoh:] someone who is both their tactical and raw power superior. Teana's X-fire shoot should prove to be a nasty suprise to the next person who encounters it >_<

That leaves the wildcards [Ginga, Vivio, unaccounted Numbers, ect] to show up and mess the scales around.

Chaos2Frozen

2007-07-30, 01:39

maybe signum knows some techniques to teach Erio on how to use his Mode 2 Strada more efficiently...with all of those boosters on each side of Strada, there seems to be boundless strategies with his Mode 2.

I don't see how though, Signum doesn't need a device to fly, so she'll probably won't be able to help him control Strada... Well, the 'safe' way that is.

It's probably a flight-combat lesson, learns things through battle :heh:

About the new opening, if they do the same combatant pairing as the opening, then Signum will surely take on Zest in the final fight.

I won't say 'final' fight, but rather Subsequence fights.

In a way, he's in over his head.:uhoh:
At least that should give Signum and Strada's other forms some screentime for the next ep.:heh:

That's what it means to do things Ichigo-style :p And frankly, with all the safety issues going on, I don't mind this change one bit.

And while their at it, show a glimpse of the other forms of the devices of the other forwards as well.:heh:

I doubt there's much to see, considering how the other forwards comment on Strada having the most radical change.

asaqe

2007-07-30, 01:48

That said, I don't believe the Numbers will die. At the very least, not all of them. In fact, I don't believe many characters will die at all. I see a high possiblity of Zest and possibly the General(why does it always have to be the guys?) and Carim dying but little beyond that. Although, I can't say I'll be too surprised if Lutecia dies, however much that defies convention. As for the most obvious possible death, Scagaletti, it's actually a little hard to see for me. The thing is, I don't think he'll mind, but I also don't think he'll be one to commit suicide. However, the thing that lends to him possibly dying is that I don't think it'll be easy for the TSAB to keep him in prison, for various reasons.

In any case, that's what I've thought of so far. I'll post again with more thoughts once I think of them.

But what could possibly the numbers live for once their benefactor is gone? They cant exactly go and say: "Can we join the TSAB? We can use our powers to help rebuild and stuff" They could possibly leave and become guns for hire...

arkhangelsk

2007-07-30, 01:48

Victory depends on tactics and match ups

If Dieci was cloned ten times and all them fought Nanoha, Nanoha would still win since she takes barely any damage from that kind of weapons

Aside from Vivio who will probably be the end boss/ Irui Ganaden of Nanoha, I think section 6 has much better hard hitters, but lose in numbers. Pun intended?

Not really. Even an apparently blocked hit is a severe drain on magical capacity. We simply couldn't see how draining it had really been on Nanoha. Plus the effects of simulataneous hits versus single hits, add that Dieci wasn't quite blasting at full power...

Nightengale

2007-07-30, 01:56

Guppy

2007-07-30, 02:09

There's still some extras right and left for both sides, but overall, things lean towards Numbers a little SO LONG as RF6 doesn't get any reinforcements.Hayate's a pretty big extra there. :p Admittedly, though, from what we've seen so far she's a bit of a wildcard; if the tactical situation allows wholesale nuking she's a major factor, but her lack of accuracy (and we haven't seen much from her in the way of combat mobility, either) makes her much less useful in a close-quarters dogfight.

Aaron008R

2007-07-30, 02:20

First, let's remove the unknown factors and wildcards.

Jail, Vivio, Due, Ginga, alongside possible backup from Navy/Church like Acous, Chrono, etc.

Alongside that, we'll put it so that Zafira, Vice and Shamal are down for the count. Shamal isn't offensive to begin with, so not that she matters, fine or not.

Uno, Quattro, and Sein are the non-direct combatant backbones of the Number team. Their primary abilities aren't offense, but their assist towards the frontliners are of utmost importance. So, it depends on how well the 3 work, but overall, they won't be the actual fighters.

Deici is a direct-offensive support, but otherwise, she's probably similar to Sein and Quatrro in their IS respect. So, no rivals here too.

Tre and Sette are the close/mid-range flight-interceptors, and argubly 2 of the more powerful in the Numbers, seeing how they were quite even with Fate. It'll be assumed that these 2 crosses Fate out.

Garyuu and Lutecia will fight Elio and Caro. Voltaire and Hakuten-ou. Freid and Jirai-ou. Case in point closed.

Zest against Signum. Rein and Agito.

Subaru/Teana and Nove/Wendi. That's pretty much given considering they seem to work in pairs on that respect. Let's throw in Otto as extra firepower just in case.

Deed seems to be a fast-twin blader... and Cinque's a mid-range bomber. Although they don't seem to be very versatile in that respect, we can probably throw in extra factors and assume that they'll occupy Vita or something like that.

Vita will probably be Nanoha's support in the coming episodes. And we know for sure Vivio will be the l33t Saint, that is all powerful, so there's Nanoha covered right there.

There's still some extras right and left for both sides, but overall, things lean towards Numbers a little SO LONG as RF6 doesn't get any reinforcements.

There's still the question of Jail's stash of Relics though... Why bother showing him possessing so many, if only one (( or 2 )) looks like it's actually going to be used...Hmmm....

Likewise, I still have doubts of certain things. Like Verossa.

Nice summary. Right now, I am rather more eager to see more about the unknown wildcards with just eight episodes to go, they should at least show what they can do! Chrono and Acous should at get a chance to fight some drones at least.:heh: I'm itching to see Durandal in non-AoE action! Carym... I don't know. And the Claudia! Please don't tell me that it's just a decorative ship with nice armor plating for the show!:eyespin:

And about Hayate...

Hayate's a pretty big extra there. :p Admittedly, though, from what we've seen so far she's a bit of a wildcard; if the tactical situation allows wholesale nuking she's a major factor, but her lack of accuracy (and we haven't seen much from her in the way of combat mobility, either) makes her much less useful in a close-quarters dogfight.

Sadly, it would seem that what you said is happening right now.:( It was a given that being a high-ranking commander would entail some shaft. But not this much!:frustrated: She's the third Ace for goodness sake! And what's more, the way they portray her in the battles she was in is as a plain nuker. I understand that she has a incredibly large amount of magical potential, but please don't tell me that her being SS is just based on pure power.:heh::uhoh::upset:

Ugh. Hopefully, they can cover it up in the next episodes.:heh: If not, then maybe we could get an OVA or a Movie conclusion.:)

Kha

2007-07-30, 02:40

And: *waves at Chaos2Frozen*You're alive!!! :twitch: :cool: :D Like Aaron said, I've been looking all over for ya. Was afraid that we shafted you. :heh:
I'm still hoping that Jail too, has something up his own sleeve.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/769/0012tc5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It's probably just a style decoration since it's [] shaped style is different from Uno's I shape on her tie, but it doesn't hurt to hope, right? :uhoh:Erm... Doctor Wily wasn't a Reploid until Megaman Zero... Unless...? :uhoh:

Guppy

2007-07-30, 03:22

Sadly, it would seem that what you said is happening right now.:( It was a given that being a high-ranking commander would entail some shaft. But not this much!:frustrated: She's the third Ace for goodness sake! And what's more, the way they portray her in the battles she was in is as a plain nuker.Unfortunately, I think that's probably close to the truth. Hayate herself has indicated several times now that she hasn't got the accuracy and control that is Nanoha's (and to a lesser extent, Fate's) hallmark. That being the case, she pretty much has to use overpowered attacks where it doesn't matter if she doesn't get a direct hit.

Of course, it may be a different story when Hayate unites with Rein, who can then take over the job of targeting, but I very much doubt that Hayate is going to switch styles dramatically when she enters Unison Mode. The best we could probably hope for is that she can launch massive precision multiple-target attacks like a boosted version of Nanoha.

I wonder how much Hayate's development as a mage was affected by the fact that she's always had the Wolkenritter with her? I'd expect Signum and Vita in particular to be horrified at the prospect of Hayate actually going hand-to-hand with anyone, so her close-in melee and evasion skills might well have suffered from lack of real-world experience.

Burner of Anime

2007-07-30, 03:35

Hayate's a pretty big extra there. :p Admittedly, though, from what we've seen so far she's a bit of a wildcard; if the tactical situation allows wholesale nuking she's a major factor, but her lack of accuracy (and we haven't seen much from her in the way of combat mobility, either) makes her much less useful in a close-quarters dogfight.

Oddly enough, she should be able to mimic the melee spells of her knights + Fate/Nanoha. The question is wheter or not she is trained to use them :heh: Then again, there isn't much subtlety in smacking someone with a giant hammer if they get too close :heh: That, or we get to see Diabolic Emmission again :uhoh:

I rather favour Teana coming ahead in any engagement she's in. Despite lacking in mobility, I'd rate her command skills and general sneakiness ahead of any of the Numbers. Even if the Dr does the long overdue sensor upgrade [I swear, if they fall for the same trick another time :rolleyes:] to negate her stealth and decoy, the homing AP bullet is not something to ignore. She is deficient in melee considering her specialisation- which is where the power hatchets come in :heh: Best chance, phase in the moment she slips and just "remove" her from combat.

Subaru, her opposite I can only describe as a walking cliche now. Scary should any of them kick in. Probably the only way for the Numbers to stop her is a massed melee attack, or a really good ranged one. Either is difficult, especially if Teana is around in an anti-missile capacity :heh: Get rid of Teana and it'll be a little bit easier. How much is entirely dependent on the resources committed to taking down a berserk cyborg with some really haxx boosts.

Signum vs Zest: Amazingly enough, I don't know who will come ahead in this one. Signum has been rare in cartridge use, things die/critically hurt when she does :uhoh:. Zest smacked off Vita [which is no small feat] although the cost to self was considerable. Funny thing for them to cancel themselves out :heh:

Key Board

2007-07-30, 04:05

Not really. Even an apparently blocked hit is a severe drain on magical capacity. We simply couldn't see how draining it had really been on Nanoha. Plus the effects of simulataneous hits versus single hits, add that Dieci wasn't quite blasting at full power...

Nanoha has been tanking heavy bombardment spells such as Phalanx Shift like nothing since the first season. The writer Suzuki has said that while Nanoha has above average magical powers, what's really monstrous about her is her magical defense towards magical attacks.

I frankly can not remember the last time she was injured by energy blasts, you need to physically SMACK her to deal any damage. Anything that goes pew pew pew is reduced to 10 damage

Furthermore, I'm not sure which fansub you follow, but kochi mo full power jyanai to wa ie, maji de? means that Dieci was surprised to learn that just like Hayate, Nanoha has been concealing her true powers.

arkhangelsk

2007-07-30, 04:12

Phalanx Shift is only AAA+ (Heavy Barrel is S), and blocking it severely drained her energy (as per the Nanoha light novel). Only the fact she had SB which allowed her to reuse some of the energy she had thrown out into the combat allowed her to win with 6% of magical reserves left.

The fact she has good magical defense just means she will block the shot. It does not mean that the defense does not drain her energy, or that she enjoys a No Limit fallacy.

Dieci was no doubt surprised her shot didn't get through, but there's no evidence to even say a more powerful shot won't pierce through, let alone 10.

Sadly, it would seem that what you said is happening right now.:( It was a given that being a high-ranking commander would entail some shaft. But not this much!:frustrated: She's the third Ace for goodness sake! And what's more, the way they portray her in the battles she was in is as a plain nuker. I understand that she has a incredibly large amount of magical potential, but please don't tell me that her being SS is just based on pure power.:heh::uhoh::upset:

The really sad thing is that so far she isn't even that good a commander (see all my comments in the Ep17 thread). To be fair, all indications suggest that this has to do with the low level of officer training (one cannot expect much of three-month training that can be passed by 8-9 year olds, even if we assume they had IQs of 200!) in the TASB, but that still doesn't fully exonerate her, since she's a Terran and has easy access to the much wider range of material on the Art of War that's available on Earth (we are such a warmonging people).

Burner of Anime

2007-07-30, 04:45

Phalanx Shift is only AAA+ (Heavy Barrel is S), and blocking it severely drained her energy (as per the Nanoha light novel). Only the fact she had SB which allowed her to reuse some of the energy she had thrown out into the combat allowed her to win with 6% of magical reserves left.

The fact she has good magical defense just means she will block the shot. It does not mean that the defense does not drain her energy, or that she enjoys a No Limit fallacy.

Dieci was no doubt surprised her shot didn't get through, but there's no evidence to even say a more powerful shot won't pierce through, let alone 10.

I wonder if the same principles that allow Nanoha to execute SLB will also work for a hardened shield. :uhoh:It may explain why the longer she fights, the more difficult it becomes to overcome her defences [unless broken by a cartridge boosted attack :heh:]. Pure speculation, but she's the the devil for real if it's true.

Someone posted a gif of the HV Barrel shot where it appeared she blocked the attack in 3 stages. There was a protection field [punched through quickly] set up, followed by an exploding cloud behind the shield [likely the jacket purge] before the smoke clearing and Nanoha standing with her heavy suit. Say, each stage takes down 1 power level, then the attack would have been reduced to AAA and therefore manageble IMO.

As it is, there isn't much info shown for Nanoha's new BJ form save that it's to counter the stress and power surge from using the Velka system. I'd assume it'll be very much heavier than her S1 and S2 suit. It's in her favour though that Nanoha has probably been battling all manner of interdimensional criminals and training promising TSAB cadets for the better part of a decade by now. That sort of experiance is difficult to assess, though it's likely she's been fighting for longer than some of the Numbers have been alive :heh:

Ultima_Rasengan05

2007-07-30, 05:07

Flar

2007-07-30, 05:12

Vivio : You seem to be mistaken. I have not forgotten anything, our promise, the caramel milk, yubikiri... everything is clear to me. I merely awakened to my true self. So if you ask me to open my eyes, this is who I really am.And now it makes sense, Vivio is actually an artillery-type peacemaker, Subaru and Ginga are dragoons, and Nanoha is a providence-breaker.

So anyway, considering the ep 19 preview, that will make 15 episodes out of 19 devoted to training or talk, and even with that, the antagonists are less developped than A's knights were. I hope they pull themselves together for the ending, or it will be a huge disappointment. I already cringe thinking about how much time Vice took on screen for nothing in the end.

Nightengale

2007-07-30, 05:17

About the new opening, I have a feeling that Nanoha might or might not be able to save Vivio...if you see in the new opening, it seems that Vivio is being carried off somewhere and when both tried to reach hands, they didn't make contact...and from what I've been hearing, Dr.Scaglietti is planning to make Vivio his test puppet and start experimenting different relics on her.

Other than that, Fate was really tearing Scaglietti's lab up in the new opening...and with Zamber form!:twitch:
Everyone has that worried look on their faces in this new opening. I guess because this will eventually turn out to be an all out battle between them.
Carim is shown in the new opening, but Chrono isn't...and after all those visits to her place also.:(

Don' take the OP too seriously on the kind of tone they're heading to. It's all dramatics. Since the song leans towards a more 'emo-serious' tone, it's only natural that the frames show the same.

Still, honestly, I have little hopes in Vivio surviving. Fate had her emo moment with Precia's..."journey to Al-Hazard/no thanks emo" in S1, Hayate had "Reinforcemo" in A'a, I'm thinking it's now Nanoha's turn with ViviEMo... :rolleyes:

EDIT:[/B] With Chrono out of the new opening, I wonder if he'll even part take in the upcoming battle...unless he just stays in his ship. And whose that new person taking control of Storm Raider?
BTW, this opening has great animations and it also shows a lot of emotions.

It's Alto, the bridge bunny.