View Full Version : Higurashi Kai Episode 5 Discussion / Poll
Welcome to the discussion thread for Higurashi no Naku Koroni Kai, Episode 5.
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ADDITIONAL RULES FOR Higurashi no Naku Koroni Kai
If you want, feel free to utilize the info on the English wikipedia article for Higurashi no Naku Koroni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni), TIPS section (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31732), Frederica Bernkastel's Poems (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=31811), Your Qs Answered (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=36602) and Putting the Pieces Together Thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=36807) as a complement to this series.
If you know what's going to happen because you read the above said info, please post in the Higurashi Discussion (for people who have read the clues) (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=37159) thread.
Otherwise, feel free to share your theories and speculations. In fact, I encourage you to do so as this is what makes this series interesting.
Klashikari
2007-08-02, 15:38
Well well... This episode is HUGE. i would suggest you to NOT watch the preview of episode 4 nor reading recklessly the usual summaries.
The episode summaries what Satoko could witness. "Black Rika" lamenting no one can do anything, the various times she saw the stalker, Irie's suicide.
Everything start when Satoko hears her alarm noise, she tries to wake Rika up. Satoko hurries, but Rika just woke up slowly, and with calm, which surprise satoko. Rika opens a hidden exit in the ceiling, and asks satoko to hurry.
Satoko goes in, but Rika then goes back on the ground, saying she is okay. Satoko doesn't understand what she is doing. Rika says these guys are after her, and Satoko might be left unharmed if she doesn't get near and run away. Satoko doesn't approve this and asks her once again, extending her arm. Rika then reverts back to ner "nipa" mode, and says everything is alright, and it will be repeated again. despite what she claims, Rika is almost crying. She then closes the trap door.
Several "janitor" henchmen are outside, and they are assaulting the house. They quickly barge in, and rush at the first floor, seeing rika. they kidnapp her. Satoko knows it and is almost crying out loud, which almost make her spotted by a henchman. But they quickly withdraw with their target.
The henchmen put rika (who was restrained in a "bag/mat") on the front of the shrine, and they draw out their knifes towards her...
Satoko leaves the house and calls out rika. she slowly makes her way to the shrine. She hears a weird noise, and as going upstairs, she sees blood...She sees Rika corpse and then... simply the yell of the most cruel thing which could happen to her.
The henchmen were going to get back in their van, but they heard satoko's cry !They quickly make their way back to the shrine. Satoko hears their footsteps and tries to make her escape. Once upstairs, the henchmen split, and 2 are going to the left, where satoko fled to.
Satoko runs in the woords, then one of the Henchmen wears some binocular (nightvision most likely). He sees satoko and three of them are chasing her. Satoko feels on a "cliff" (much like how teppei did in tatarigoroshi). She sees the bridge, but she can't get up because of a deep wound on her left leg. She suddenly hears the henchmen, and sees them afar. She tries to withstand the pain, and slowly makes her way to the bridge
The henchmen arrive around the bridge, but they can't see anyone. they are walking on it, but satoko is under the bridge, gripping on some cable, struggling a lot. As they walk just above her, the Binocular guy doesn't see her, so they keep going. this relieves satoko, but she then trips, and barely hold a bar with her hands. this alert the henchmen who heard the noise.
They walk back where Satoko is, and one draws out his knife. however, they still don't see anything, so they keep going. Satoko cannot hold anymore, she has lots of pain and begs anyone to help her. She then release her grip, and she fell in the river...
The scene switch back to several army trucks and soldiers (much like what it was shown on the trailer 1) Meanwhile, Satoko has been washed to the shore. She manages to be conscious, but she he bleeding on her head...
she walks back to hinamizawa, where there is a lot of activities... There are many soldiers with full isolation suit and Gas Mask. Satoko is completely speechless. She sees some soldiers leaving the school with "something", she makes slowly her way to the school then...
She sees the classroom by the window... several person on the grounds, on of them is chie sensei... Satoko doesn't understand what's happening, then she looks at the right and sees Mion, Shion and Keiichi, eye wide opened, bearing a painful expression, mouth open, they are dead. Satoko is crushed, and can withstand the shock, she yells. (here are pictures of the scene (http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb271/klashikari/GHDmassacre.jpg)... again, do NOT look at it, it is really huge... )
the soldiers hear her, and are surprised to see a survivor. They are quickly helping her.
Some people in a hospital are watching the TV. the current reportage is about Hinamizawa disaster as you might expect. The presentator also makes mention that Houjou Satoko is the sole survivor and is currently treated in the hospital.
Ooishi is discussing with a doctor, and asks why he can't interrogate Satoko. of course, the Doctor explains that Satoko received an horrible emotional shock, which makes her close her heart. the doctor can't do anything and everything depend on satoko. Ooishi then understand
Satoko is in her chamber, laying on her bed, with various breathing devices, but her gaze is simply dead. Ooishi then enters and pays her a visit. He then talks about the disaster ans satoko, but he knows she won't answer. He can't help it, and asks satoko to listen to him. Ooishi then shows her Rena's hat, which was stained with blood.
Ooishi talks where he found it and is wondering why they found her hat in such place, with blood on it. He wonders also why she was there in the first place.
Ooishi believes Rena let her hat as a message. Ooishi makes various theories about the hat. But Rena is still missing since the Disaster. Ooishi knows it isn't a natural disaster, grabs satoko and yells to know what she saw. but he quickly gave up. A nurse arrives, and ask if there is a problem, Ooishi assures there isn't
Ooishi then says he will be back, and will interrogate her about the murder of Rika. Suddenly Satoko reacted to this. Ooishi is caught off guard, and ask to the nurse if she saw it. But the nurse says it is something like a reflex. Ooishi is disappointed and makes his leave. As he is parting, the nurse has a weird look at satoko.
Back in the Okinomiya police office, a collaegue says Kumatani is still missing. Ooishi asks if Kuma let a message or something, but the collague says no. suddenly he remember that they should have dispatched some policemen for Rika. Then ooishi remembers about satoko's reaction when He mentionned her murder.
Ooishi then asks about this, and the policeman answers that it appears someone was stalking Furure Rika and Houjou Satoko. Ooishi then understands that something is wrong, and realizes that he should have understand this before : Satoko didn't witness the Disaster, but Rika's murder ! He quickly goes with his partner back in the hospital.
At the hospital, a weird man is lurking in... Meanwhile, Ooishi and the other cop are rushing by car to the hospital
Satoko suddenly wakes up and remembers what Ooishi said about the hat. she remembers herself running in the woods, and then we sees Rena doing the same. but Rena got outwit by the henchmen and some of them stops her in the front of her, drawing out their knives... We then see her hat, falling in the river...yelling...
Satoko suddenly wakes up, saying she understood Rika's message. Satoko push the nurse button, but the earlier weird nuse goes to the room board, and push the button, ceasing the alert.
Ooishi finally arrives in the hospital, while running, he sees some commotion in front of Satoko's Room... Ooishi is too late, Satoko died, and the Doctor says the cause of it. Ooishi collapses, in angst...
this episode DELIVERS... PERIOD...
Frankly, the first part was really the most heart wrenching moment of the anime ever (for the moment). Even tatarigoroshi and various moments of Meakashi are nothing to this.
The part B just finish the "game" off, with various plot twists. Many people who already played the PS2 games will see similarities with Tsukiotoshi-hen (especially this end...)
Worth a TEN, no question about this
Augh, poor Satoko. And Ooishi, I never know whether to root for the guy or hope he dies the way he bullies people around. Looks like Satoko figured out Rena's connection to the Hinamizawa disaster just before she was killed.
Can't wait for next week!
Wow.
That's the only word I have for this episode.
I was surprised. This was the first time I watched Higurashi late at night with all lights off. I can say it was creepy. Satoko's legs were thin as heck again! :3
I was surprised at seeing Rika not putting up any kind of a fight - after all it seems there isn't anything to make her hopes go up. After that, it's just Satoko's desperation, and her *snap*, if you cna call it, by seeing everyone die, just as Rika predicted. It is also a kind of Tsumihoroboshi-hen solution : it's explained why Keichi was the lone survivor of the disaster, which proves that there isn't any gas in the end.
I understood praticaly everything- as to Part B, there's way too much talk going on and I get the feeling there's an heavy amount of information being revealed - especially about Rena. (I'll have to check a fansub later ^^) Oh well.
Either way, there is too much specualtion ocurring in my head at the moment to find a satisfactory answer for my own questions.
Even so, we actually got to see who's responsible for Rika's death. And, we get to deduce that the same organization also killed Satoko. I guess it's because they don't want any information leaked. MMM... Well, I want it leaked. I still don't know what happened that night, and this episode further confuses me, because I see way too many different deaths, and I can't say for sure what caused them.
Also, who was the stalker after all? It didn't seem like he was part of that organization at all....
And, besides all that, there's still another thing that is getting onto my nerves:
Rena! Why was she being followed around like that, ~kana? ~kana?! As far as I recall, she didn't have any contact with Takano in this arc... right? So, it's not possible that she was being followed because of the scrapbook like in Tsumihoroboshi-hen...
I have yet only watched part A (will edit this post later when part b is fixed, as there seems some problem with the sound).
There's a full version posted on nicodouga if you want to see the second half with synched audio :D
Klashikari
2007-08-02, 16:57
The Raw of episode 5 is up. (158M, rather light, but fast enough)
Yay! Now that I've seen klashi's summary for part B, I can roughly imagine what they're speaking about.
Though I wonder what Satoko knows about Rena... is it possible that she knows more than us?... I'm confused... this made yet another question pop up in my mind! What's Rena doing running around at a place like that when she was supposed to be with all her friends at school?....
Which also prompts yet another mistery: Since the attack was during the night, what was everyone doing at school past midnight?... Were they carried over there, or is it that this followed a different arc direction?
Ah, I'm so confused...
Ah, but next week minagoroshi-hen starts. Bad thing I won't be here to see it (I'll be on vacation).
I can't wait! ^^
Klashikari
2007-08-02, 17:40
Yay! Now that I've seen klashi's summary for part B, I can roughly imagine what they're speaking about.
Though I wonder what Satoko knows about Rena... is it possible that she knows more than us?... I'm confused... this made yet another question pop up in my mind! What's Rena doing running around at a place like that when she was supposed to be with all her friends at school?....
Which also prompts yet another mistery: Since the attack was during the night, what was everyone doing at school past midnight?... Were they carried over there, or is it that this followed a different arc direction?
Ah, I'm so confused...
Ah, but next week minagoroshi-hen starts. Bad thing I won't be here to see it (I'll be on vacation).
I can't wait! ^^
I believe satoko remembered what she had done. Considering what Ooishi said about the location of the hat, she could imagine what happened to Rena.
Basically, Satoko was able to "emulate" her situation with Rena's, and finally understood the meaning of her blood stained hat.
As for her location, considering her clothes, it appears she was happy hunting in the trash yard.
by the way, don't you think it is weird that Mion, Shion and Keiichi have their "casual" clothes, and not their seifuku? why they weren't with Rena in the first place?
Think about it, it is probably related with the reasons why so many people are in the school
Deathkillz
2007-08-02, 18:07
zomg twists :eyespin:
great almighty screams of doom...poor poor satoko!! :sad: she went through all this mental and physical shit only to be killed off right when she had the answer! i cannot accept this ~ *someone pushes the reset button*
may her memories be carried forward in the afterlife >_<
sezen_atacan
2007-08-02, 18:14
So does this mean that for this particular arc it is finish? Minagoroshi-hen begins next week? Well at least thats what happens in season 1, a new arc begins when someone kicks the bucket.
Ishikawa Minoru
2007-08-02, 18:25
Excellent episode! Despite the fact it's patently obvious this arc hardly adds anything to the plot, I think it delivers a powerful alternate version of Tatarigoroshi-hen.
Nevertheless, what's the point in showing Rika's kidnapping? The viewer doesn't really learn anything, because the fact someone had her tagged was pretty much a given.
Furthermore, we'd already established the GHD wasn't a natural disaster back in Saikai. Unless the director spills the beans, it's all a hopeless mess. Revealing these tidbits here will most certainly impart on viewers ability to be truly surprised in the next arc....at least the shock won't be nearly as great as it'd normally be.
Caps if you're impatient.
http://blog.seiha.org/?p=235
So does this mean that for this particular arc it is finish? Minagoroshi-hen begins next week? Well at least thats what happens in season 1, a new arc begins when someone kicks the bucket.
Well... uh... pretty much everybody but Ooishi is dead... so... uh, yes.
Klashikari
2007-08-02, 19:03
Well, another blog entry for those who are too impatient :heh:
Episode 5: Summary, Screencaps and thoughts (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/08/03/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-kai-episode-5-yakusamashi-hen-4-hinamizawa-daisaigai/)
currently uploading the pictures, should be done quickly ^^
EDIT : Summary completely done ! screencaps are scattering on the whole article ^^
@sezen : there isn't many thing to explore with yakusamashi-hen anyway, so i guess it will be kinda... dull to let another episode on this chapter.
FlareKnight
2007-08-02, 19:18
Rika....Satoko....pretty sad way that things ended there is no question about that. Tough to see them all go down like this. In the end Rika got nothing to hope with and went down without a struggle. Giving into fate though with the slight hope that Satoko might find a way out of it.
On one hand we finally have the information about who committed the actual act of killing Rika. Those guys are really pushing it and I want a nuclear warhead to blast them into oblivion with. Just who the heck are these guys? I mean come on night vision goggles and everything has me completely baffled as to who they are working for.
Did get a view in a way to what happened to Keiichi after he fell from the bridge. Could probably imagine a similar scenario with him seeing all the dead friends and such a horrible sight. You really know it's back at this point. Just looking around with everyone dead. So much death it'd be impossible for one child to handle it.
This conspiracy really is spreading out. How many of the hospital staff were on Satoko's murder? This guy goes all out of his way just to finish her off. She battles on through all of it and still can't make it out alive.
Guess we'll see next week. If it's the start of a new arc at least we'll have some happy moments to cheer us up again.
Man a really tough episode no question about it. Lot of things happened and you can only watch and wish there was something you could do there. Guess now it's all to wait for the subs.
No episode 6 preview yet.
Akabane_Kun
2007-08-02, 20:41
Havent seen the epi but from the pictures in animehistory i say,HOLY GOD theres ppl dead everywere damn jesus:eyespin:
First of all, I would like to thank Ryukishi07 for formally coming into this as an advisor to the series to fix the errors of the previous season. The previous season was dogged with mistakes that made Higurashi fans cry in disgust - from so called "killer lolis" (it's not supposed to be that type of story!), awkward emo facial features, leaving out primarily-subtle-but-nevertheless-very-important scenes...the list goes on. Higurashi is supposed to be focused on murder-suspense-horror...not a story that is focused on "killer lolis" (whomever thought of this term should be drug out to the street and shot) going around becoming psychotic and killing people.
Anyhow this is episode's outline was pure Ryukishi's format of writing. You have the thriller scene, the descent into anxiety and then into helplessness. What was the most pure Ryukishi moment was the cruel twist of fate that is at the end -the answer to everything being in sight of Oishi-san, and BAM!! It would've been more powerful if they had done the "Higurashi explosion" at the end just like in the game, but what the hey.
And not only that, this episode has given the game players a better insight to what might've happened to Kei when he died of his supposed "heart attack" at the epilogue of Tatarigoroshi (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=604889&postcount=67).
Hopefully we'll get to see more Hanyuu action in the next episode or two.
Shion's Sanity
2007-08-03, 01:46
Watching it now on crunchyroll. This episode resurfaces something I've been wondering for a while. If it can't be answered without a spoiler, please do not answer it at all.
If whatever disaster occured at bedtime, why were there people at the school?O_o
kingsky123
2007-08-03, 02:34
i regret rating 10 for the previous episodes cause this is the episode that truly deserve a maximum rating =/. wish they had an '11' or something.
well on a side note i don't really like what they done to Rika :( they made her like... not what i pictured her to be like. i mean come on... they made her so... different =/ ( well at least to me). and No i dont mean dark rika i mean they made dark rika different from the way i thought dark rika would be
Ice Climbers
2007-08-03, 02:58
oh my goodness, this episode really deserves a 10 even before I watch it :heh: Already seen too many stuff that leads me to the conclusion, and I would definitely give this one a 10 no matter what :heh:
I mean, the title already suggests it but I'm still shocked, I guess that's why I'm still watching this series even though I hate horror series genearlly :heh:
kingsky123
2007-08-03, 03:05
this episode makes like nearly all the lousy episodes in the first season worth it
SnowfairyX
2007-08-03, 03:15
Episode 6 preview is up. Looks like this is where Hanyuu finally makes her debut.
Watching it now on crunchyroll. This episode resurfaces something I've been wondering for a while. If it can't be answered without a spoiler, please do not answer it at all.
If whatever disaster occured at bedtime, why were there people at the school?O_o
I asked that question too (look up). Klashikari kindly gave me an answer to it, but I had to figure out for myself why there were people there too. Some points that might help you (if you're too lazy to go up and read Klashi's post, here's a digest):
1) Have you noticed they are all on their casual clothes instead of their seifukus?
2) What are Sonozaki Oryou and Elder Kimiyoshi doing at the school?
3) Why isn't Rena present?
If you can answer those questions, I guess you'll pretty much have the answer for it. ^^ Credit Klashikari for her deductive powers. xD
well on a side note i don't really like what they done to Rika they made her like... not what i pictured her to be like. i mean come on... they made her so... different =/ ( well at least to me). and No i dont mean dark rika i mean they made dark rika different from the way i thought dark rika would be
Wow. Now that's confusing. How did you imagine her to be? xD
Shion's Sanity
2007-08-03, 03:52
The answer? Hmm...
Parents' Night!
I'm curious to know more about the "message", as well.
Episode 6 preview? Where?!
Higurashi at its finest.
This arc sort of reminds me of that French film Cache, where every answer revealed carries with it two new questions.
To me the most intriguing would be what happened to the twenty or so people who are unaccounted for?
Shion's Sanity
2007-08-03, 03:56
O_OAlien abduction? It's kind of fitting.
I'm curious about that too.
Looked on the official site, but didn't find the preview there.@_@
SnowfairyX
2007-08-03, 04:06
Episode 6 preview:
http://www.animate.tv/special/higurasi_yokoku.php
Klashikari
2007-08-03, 04:07
Here is the link for the preview, credits to mathx.
http://www.animate.tv/special/higurasi_yokoku.php
it is official: Minagoroshi-hen will kick in next week, and the "auauauauau" mascot, Hanyuu, will be officially shown !
edit : some seconds too late i guess :heh:
Shion's Sanity
2007-08-03, 04:18
Looks interesting.^^ I hope Tomitake will be in it. I can't help hoping they'll make his festival scene from the first manga. That was so awesome(or even better, the part with him in the Angel Mort outfitXD)!
I'm curious to know more about the "message", as well.
I think it's quite simple. ^^
Rena wanted to pass the message that she was murdered, therefore it couldn't be a disaster. Of course, I'm sure this is an accident: at that moment, she didn't know what was happening and just thought of leaving something behind that could hint something about her fate.
About the 20 people that went missing, they're probably people that
Like Rena, tried to escape them and had to be murdered and hidden, so no clues about it were left.
And about the preview:
Oh, yaaaay! Hanyuu, hanyuu, hanyuu!! Keichi with a sad face! Happy people! Rika and Satoko in a bustling city! And, in the end: "nipah nipah nipah nano desu~~!" KAIIII! ^-^
Klashikari
2007-08-03, 04:31
^ quite simple... before or after the PM? :heh:
here are what the hat is important:
-The hat has 3 issues: the time, the location, and the nature (the stain)
=>
-Why was she there, far from the disaster, at this time (since it occured around midnight) and why a blood stain?!
Basically, the Rena leaves an important memento : there are murderers.
Why it is "that important"? first i believe she doesn't know about rika's death, nor satoko. Thus if she dies where she is, she will probably get her corpse hidden.
If we collect this data with Satoko and Rika, it is clear for us that a disaster never occured in the first place.
But for ooishi, there is NOTHING. Satoko is "dead like" , the Hat 'might" be an accident : she got hurt, and she lost her hat. without her presence (or corpse...) that doesn't mean anything;
Why still isn't enough? because Rika's death is NOT sufficient. They might think it is a Fanatic who did it, since a "curse" is occuring each year since 1979. (this is the major reason why the police is hindered for the past 4 incident, because the rampant "oyashiro sama curse" is really imprinted all the way in hinamizawa)
With satoko's experience, they CAN "translate" her message, and then guess it is a CONSPIRACY. (that is what i said earlier : Satoko DIDN'T witness Rena, she EMULATE and IMAGINE what Rena has done, with her own mad espace and what ooishi said (especially the location).
Satoko doesn't KNOW what happaned in the disaster, and she was only focalised on Rika's murder, and her friends "natural deaths".
With her mad escape, she was able to link Rika's murder with the disaster, so the henchmen are without a doubt related to what happened to Rena and so, in the same extent, to the "disaster"
Also, keep in mind they don't know what happaned to Kumatani, and Irie's death isn't shown as "suspicious".
After. Only after. :heh: Good point there. :D
So, we have two pieces of a puzzle that don't seem to be conected unless you have the other. Satoko has one and Oishi has the other. Oishi "gives" his piece of the puzzle to Satoko and she completes the puzzle with her own piece, finding they are conected. And she dies immediatly after.
Hum-huh. Pretty metaphorical.
And now, we finnaly know what Keichi's heart-attack in Tatarigoroshi was. Really, somone kill that nurse already. Better yet, let's use a fingernail extractor on her just like someone did with Shion. But, let's take ALL her nails. :love:
i regret rating 10 for the previous episodes cause this is the episode that truly deserve a maximum rating =/. wish they had an '11' or something.
Successive episodes of this season have put into stark focus the relative quality this show can achieve. If every episode of Higurashi had been like this one, then we'd all be commenting on how average this episode turned out.
well on a side note i don't really like what they done to Rika :( they made her like... not what i pictured her to be like. i mean come on... they made her so... different =/ ( well at least to me). and No i dont mean dark rika i mean they made dark rika different from the way i thought dark rika would be
You have to remember, we now know that Rika remembers all the previous Hinamizawas, and that she (probably) died in every single one of them. Taking into account that we don't know how many times she has been looped through this recurring nightmare, she must have tried a multitude of ways to change not only her own destiny, but the destiny of everyone within the village. And each and every time she has failed. The sheer weight of despair must be utterly crushing by now.... I'm surprised she simply hasn't fallen completely into a state of catatonic torpor already.... She is certainly teetering on the edge of that right now.
kingsky123
2007-08-03, 05:04
i know about dark rika's , well past thats why shes so cynical and all , i just thought she would be like stronger and wiser . guess i forgot deep down, shes just a 10 year old that needs love :P
Klashikari
2007-08-03, 05:47
No, actually she cannot be considered as a "10 years old girl" with what is happening with her.
the problem is not only the past experiences, but her mind has lived many years.
it is safe to speculate that she is "way too old" for what she is supposed to be.
this is a common "problem" for the undying/immortal character in general: once they are stuck in this state, it isn't surprising for them to be that jaded.
Wisedom isn't something you can pull out with that mindset, and especially what hopelessness.
Granted, things might change. As you can see on the OP, Rika will probably draw out her determination. Her fighting spirit is anyway required (as an example : Tsumihoroboshi-hen, both her discussion with Rena, and her intervention with the "clock" with keiichi)
This episode makes me want to catalogue every single instance those anonymous conspirators have appeared and analyze the significance.
Here's a rough start, let me know if you can think of any I'm missing..
Himatsubushi
The thugs who've kidnapped the minister's grandson seem to be the earliest (chronologically) incarnation of them.
-Presuming they're not taking their orders directly from the Hinamizawa Families, what motives do the "Disaster" culprits have in keeping the Dam from being constructed?
-Does this imply an allegiance between them and the resistance? What further could this entail?
Onikakushi
Presuming it wasn't K1's delusions (which seems plausible considering they look exactly the same) he first encounters one in the near hit and run.
-K1 is the one approached by Takano in this arc, and subsequently loses it. Could this incident be baiting to exacerbate his condition?
-This also seems to imply K1 was being tailed in a similar manner to Rika in this arc. Considering that Rika was the one approached by Delicious in the most recent arc, it makes one wonder if the surveillance initially wasn't because of the planned evisceration at all?
-K1 later encounters a pack of Anonymouses in the woods, at which time he gets into an altercation. But he wakes up alive(!?) in his home. Why he was spared at this point is mysterious. It's also unclear if the troops who arrive with Irie are in cahoots with the conspirators. If so he must play some crucial part in the mystery. This seems more probable considering they have plants in the local hospital.
-One must also wonder if these troops deployment could have anything to do with the initial stages of enacting the "Disaster"?
I can't recall how they factored into the other arcs specifically, anyone recall?
Klashikari
2007-08-03, 06:11
They are also present in Tsumihoroboshi, but they were rather "minor" in these arcs.
They are completely absent in Watanagashi/Meakashi. The reason behind is very likely linked why there isn't any disaster in the said chapters.
As for the "allegeance", considering what we know in Himatsubushi-hen, their expertise, and professional skills are hardly equal to the Sonozaki. Thus, considering what we know from Reunion and this episode, we can assume this isn't the "the sonozaki were plotting a bioweapon", considering these guys are likely linked with a bigger organization.
What is much more important to note is that they obliterated the Gosanke leaders in the school as well.
In conclusion, they are rather a third party, absolutely no in either "rika's friends" or "sonozaki leaders".
FlareKnight
2007-08-03, 07:03
Yeah right now we sit knowing at least who ended up killing Rika. But still that doesn't give us much since we don't know who they are working for. Plus what reason could they have for doing all of this? As we know they aren't just normal thugs, certainly they have a seriously high level of skill and influence. Of course the background of these guys will probably be explained later, but at the moment I just can't figure them out.
Things do seem quite strange with everyone in that school. Plus being in their casual clothing on top of it. Maybe everyone was called into some town meeting? Herded by these assassins into the school for easier disposal? Seems like I always end up with more questions than answers.
All I can do is feel terribly sorry for Rika. It'd be hard to imagine going through such horrible htings over and over again. Can't really blame her for being tired of it and not seeing the point in really giving an effort. While Keiichi did give her some will to fight since it was a while ago for her she needs another 'miracle'. At the moment she might have too much experience to get the will to struggle. She's seen so much and lost so many times it could be extremely difficult for her to get back into this.
Garet Linegod
2007-08-03, 07:24
All I can do is feel terribly sorry for Rika. It'd be hard to imagine going through such horrible htings over and over again. Can't really blame her for being tired of it and not seeing the point in really giving an effort. While Keiichi did give her some will to fight since it was a while ago for her she needs another 'miracle'. At the moment she might have too much experience to get the will to struggle. She's seen so much and lost so many times it could be extremely difficult for her to get back into this.
Rika once described her dilemma like this: "It is like sitting in a room and being forced to watch a video over and over and over again, until you know every frame of it. And still you're being forced to watch on, and as boredom and exhaustion take over you, you slowly close you eyes until you're asleep (death/gameover)."
Edit: Just saw the Preview. It's finally time to reveal the rules (法則)! Hope they take some time to explain things slowly, otherwise it could get quite confusing... On the other hand, I can already see one of the "keys" (カギ) setting to get to work in the first episode. Isn't the pacing a bit too fast considering there are still at least 19 episodes left? I certainly don't want to see a 13 episode series for Kai...
In Tsumihoroboshi (at the end of ep 26) , we see Mion and Chie speaking about the forest service doing fumigations. They are supposed to stay indors with windows closed.That's when they were interrupted by Rena.
Maybe that "forest service" is some coverup for the conspirators to gather the inhabitants at some point. But i don't see why. Mion seems to have been killed where she lies so we could assume K1 and Shion were at school too when they were gassed. Wearing their casual clothes...
EDIT: And if they were gassed, it must be with a gas which doesn't leave traces when the bodies are autopsied. Suggest VAST means for the conspirators (or maybe the writers just didn't think about that "detail" )
dspr8_rugged
2007-08-03, 08:16
I actually visited this thread this morning. What really caught my attention are the ratings people have given this episode. I've never seen so much 10's.
And after seeing the episode, wow, this episode really deserves a top score. Not because there were a lot of casualties, but this was the first episode in both seasons that made me so emotional. I really felt so sad for Satoko...
Kazuki_Kun
2007-08-03, 08:52
Wow, one of the greatest episodes ever. o_o; very emotional. I have one question though, don't read if you dont want possible big spoilers x_x;
Okay I'm wondering, I haven't read the tips or anything like that, nor read summaries of the last 2 arcs, but that nurse, was in Takano it disguise?
Mystearika
2007-08-03, 09:08
i really liked the ep :)
deen has done a good job on this arc, cant wait to minagoroshi
ohh i felt really sorry for riika this whole arc, its not a wonder dark rika is so bitter, and pesimistisk.
and poor satoko :(
in the next arc i hope there more keiichi, hes a pretty cool char,
hope they animate his past
Klashikari
2007-08-03, 09:11
Okay I'm wondering, I haven't read the tips or anything like that, nor read summaries of the last 2 arcs, but that nurse, was in Takano it disguise?
What makes you think it is takano?
Do you think she is also able to change her face completely? while i agree the hair isn't a problem, the proportions of her eyes and head are hardly something you can alter ^^
And Ooshi once again proved that his useless other than being a intimidator of children. And this time it's a comatose one.
Just a thought that Rika doesn't know what comes after her death (she's dead after all) and so thinks that if she dies, everyone else gets saved. Which is not the case. And everyone 'follows' her to the next world. :heh:
Klashikari
2007-08-03, 09:33
^ That is not quite correct. Ooishi proved to be extremely sharp with various point. In Reunion and this episode, various points are extremely important an make sense. (as far as we can see, his theory about Rena is quite personal. the rest is just oblivious to why Rena's hat was in such place)
As for his actions towards Satoko, it isn't really an harassment, but to make her snap out of her "vegetable state".
as for the other statement, it is really hard to determine. In episode 4, she said she will die then everyone will die. but indeed, she believed satoko will survive if she stay like this. that means a lot of points aren't really available for Rika's knowledge.
Kazuki_Kun
2007-08-03, 09:39
What makes you think it is takano?
Do you think she is also able to change her face completely? while i agree the hair isn't a problem, the proportions of her eyes and head are hardly something you can alter ^^
Hmm, yeah, you're right, but the nurse did seem awfully suspicious, and Takano is also a nurse that seems suspicious too. So I tried putting the both of them together ^^;
as for the other statement, it is really hard to determine. In episode 4, she said she will die then everyone will die. but indeed, she believed satoko will survive if she stay like this. that means a lot of points aren't really available for Rika's knowledge.
Such as what happens after she dies.
I think it's safe to assume, at this point, that we already know much more about the events that surround Rika than rika herself. One example is Onikakushi-hen. If you notice, rika isn't present at all, and so, is a little oblivious to what's happening with Keichi. Another example: Tatarigoroshi-hen. Though she is more present, and seems to know many things, ultimately she doesn't know about Keichi's real dillema.
Speaking of Tatarigoroshi-hen, in that arc,
Rika is killed at the end of the day, instead of late night (if my memory doesn't fail me). Although this doesn't alter much stuff, I think that it proves the time Rika dies is losely based on Satoko's presence, though there is alot of random factors involved.
Also, good job on noticing that small hint about the fumigation on episode 26! IT cleared up a thing (or two) about
How they all ended up at school, if I'm not wrong.
Garet Linegod
2007-08-03, 10:13
Also, good job on noticing that small hint about the fumigation on episode 26! IT cleared up a thing (or two) about
How they all ended up at school, if I'm not wrong.
Would the fumigation have spreaded so far that it would cover the entire Hinamizawa area? Personally I thought it was just a trick Rena used to enclose all the kids inside the school before she begins her plan.
I'd been lurking here for a while since I started watching the first season of Higurashi, all up to Kai.
This is the episode that made me register.
What can be said except Holy Jumping Monkey Crap... Even though I spoiled myself earlier on what happened, watching the actual episode still sent shivers through me in a way I hadn't felt since Onikakushi-hen and Watanagashi-hen. Wrought emotions, tragedy, and the pain of seeing a little girl struggle against the impossible, only for the overbearing forces to crush down on her before the truth can be told. Point by point...
1) Rika resigning herself to her fate just so Satoko can live (however misguided) made me cry. Just her sad "We'll see each other in the next world..."...
2) The sheer horror Satoko shows at finding Rika murdered, then seeing the aftermath of the Disaster....cripes. How much crap can you put a little girl through? Seriously, why are the chibis the ones that get the crap end of the world stick here? ;_;
3) The answers. Oh lord....
a) We find out, without ambiguity, that the 'janitors' are bad mojo. You got the sense in Onikakushi, a better sense in Himitsubushi, but here, you find out that there's some SERIOUS crap going on. The silencer in the last ep. was a clue, but night vision goggles, combat knives, the fact that THEY killed Rika for whatever means, it blows away any sense of what they were really up to in past arcs (especially Himitsubushi, where you're led to believe that they're part in parcel with the Sonozaki family).
b) The disaster itself. Like people have pointed out, it's strange that they're all at the school like that, even those that shouldn't be, that they're there at MIDNIGHT, and that they're in casual clothes. Not to mention that the way the younger kids are piled is extremely EXTREMELY suspicious. Whereas everyone else looks like they could have plausibly died where they stood, the kids looked herded to where they were.
c) The conspiracy goes even further, as Satoko's 'nurse' and the poor child's eventual 'passing' prove. Whatever happened here, it stretches far and wide and isn't just constrained to suspicions of the Sonozakis, or just the 'janitors'.
While Reunion planted the seeds, this is definitely the ep where those who have just the anime to rely on know that this was no disaster. This was a massacre.
4) Finally...I'm not sure how, but despite the general lack of blood or visual killings, this ended up feeling the most gruesome and unsettling of all the chapter climaxes so far. Not only Satoko's reaction to finding Rika, but the school. God, those are expressions to burn into your head....
I literally don't think I have the patience to wait for Minagoroshi to start now.
Also, good job on noticing that small hint about the fumigation on episode 26! IT cleared up a thing (or two) about
How they all ended up at school, if I'm not wrong.
Not so sure about that.
For one thing, why the school, at Midnight? Even with the fumigation, there's no reason why they couldn't have waited it out in their own homes, right?
Would the fumigation have spreaded so far that it would cover the entire Hinamizawa area? Personally I thought it was just a trick Rena used to enclose all the kids inside the school before she begins her plan.
I don't think so. I say that it is a thing to consider not because it is a fumigation, but because it's a reason why everyone must stay indoors. (Or so it is made to believe). Doesn't that sound a little suspicious? This is just my opinion, though. I might be wrong.
I doubt Rena could have made up a fumigation story. Even tough it make some sense, she couldn't have made a phone call to anyone in the school without her voice being recognized.
Not to mention that the way the younger kids are piled is extremely EXTREMELY suspicious. When i read this sentence, i immediatly imagined some inspector carefully examinating the stockpile of dead children with a magnifying glass and saying: Uh oh ... there is a pile of dead children here... i find this definitely suspicious.:heh:
I am not at all mocking you Kryptic and y share your conclusions about those men in gray, i just found the sentence funny when pulled out of context.
2) The sheer horror Satoko shows at finding Rika murdered, then seeing the aftermath of the Disaster....cripes. How much crap can you put a little girl through? Seriously, why are the chibis the ones that get the crap end of the world stick here? ;_;
Not to mention the crap that Satoko went through prior to this: being ostracized by the villagers of Hinamizawa, living with an abusive uncle and aunt, her beloved nii-nii onikakushi'ed...perhaps the most strongest person in Higurashi might be Satoko.
What can be said except Holy Jumping Monkey Crap... Even though I spoiled myself earlier on what happened, watching the actual episode still sent shivers through me in a way I hadn't felt since Onikakushi-hen and Watanagashi-hen. Wrought emotions, tragedy, and the pain of seeing a little girl struggle against the impossible, only for the overbearing forces to crush down on her before the truth can be told. Point by point...
See, this is how the first season of Higurashi should've played out. Not some degenerate remarks of "Killer lolis WTF LOL" or some misconceptions of Oishi = Mr. Delicious (whomever made this remark should be drug out to the street and shot as well). The sense of Kei's helplessness wasn't captured well in the anime version of Tatarigoroshi, but they managed to rejuvegnate it via Satoko in this season's Yakusamashi.
So far, the first five episodes were outstanding as they were new episodes that even game players can applaud for because of it's originality. Now here comes the part where DEEN will need to make their biggest impression - Minagoroshi-hen. Will they be able to provide the ambience of hope, despair, bravery, emotive praise, prospectiveness, and finally - vexation? If sincerely hope they can portray Minagoroshi in a manner that brings the anime viewers the same emotional response as game players had gone through.
Altough, I can already foresee that the anime will be grasping everyone's attention as we Hanyuu making her first visual appearance (aside from the OP and ED) wwww
Not so sure about that.
For one thing, why the school, at Midnight? Even with the fumigation, there's no reason why they couldn't have waited it out in their own homes, right?
First things first. You don't know for sure if the fumigation story is true or not - or if even happened in Yakusamashi. I don't think so, as we would be probably hear a commentary about it from someone, which didn't happen. And, if it was true, it doesn't really make a difference. Let's look at some facts then:
1) Everyone was piled up at the school. Even the elders of the Sonozaki and Kimiyoshi family were there. So, it is safe to assume that, either they were taken there, or they went there of they own free will. This gives us a lose idea of location.
2) They all have their casual clothing on. This gives us an indication of time - it wasn't during the morning as they don't have their seifukus, and it probably wasn't late at night or they'd be wearing pijamas. The only option left is afternoon. But why would everyone be at school in the afternoon? And how late or early in the afternoon?
3) Rena isn't present. She "went missing". But her hat was found near the mountains. This gives an idea of her location when she died. (in the middle of the mountains). Now, we saw Rena running around and being killed, but it was Satoko's perspective. Therefore, there might be some variances, like the time. It's possible it wasn't night when she was being chased.
4) Some people, like Rena, went missing, leaving no traces of their whereabouts. I think it's also safe to assume that their course of action was similar to Rena's - so, they are "exceptions", "exceptions" because their actions didn't follow everyone else's pattern (appearing dead in the school). So, what pattern did it follow?
5) Finnaly, there's Satoko. As some might have noticed, she was just like Rena, (running away from the janitors) with a slight difference. Satoko escaped them while Rena didn't. So, Satoko is another one of those "exceptions", and now we know the "exceptions" pattern - they probably ran away from the janitors.
With this, the realy mistery is not what happened at that night, but rather what happened starting from 14 PM to 1 AM that made everyone appear at school except the people that tried to escape the janitors.
Right about now, I'd say this is the pattern: (withy many possibilities) person is found (and maybe killed)/person is called to school for a fake reason ------> tries to run away/is taken to school/dies -----> is killed/is dead and is dumped at school.
It seems a bit messy, but maybe I'll try to make a clearer scheme. There are many possibilities right now.
sasuke13
2007-08-03, 12:03
I agree with Ooishi at the end, that WAS f---ed up xD
First of all, I would like to thank Ryukishi07 for formally coming into this as an advisor to the series to fix the errors of the previous season. The previous season was dogged with mistakes that made Higurashi fans cry in disgust - from so called "killer lolis" (it's not supposed to be that type of story!), awkward emo facial features, leaving out primarily-subtle-but-nevertheless-very-important scenes...the list goes on. Higurashi is supposed to be focused on murder-suspense-horror...not a story that is focused on "killer lolis" (whomever thought of this term should be drug out to the street and shot) going around becoming psychotic and killing people.
Anyhow this is episode's outline was pure Ryukishi's format of writing. You have the thriller scene, the descent into anxiety and then into helplessness. What was the most pure Ryukishi moment was the cruel twist of fate that is at the end -the answer to everything being in sight of Oishi-san, and BAM!! It would've been more powerful if they had done the "Higurashi explosion" at the end just like in the game, but what the hey.
And not only that, this episode has given the game players a better insight to what might've happened to Kei when he died of his supposed "heart attack" at the epilogue of Tatarigoroshi (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=604889&postcount=67).
Hopefully we'll get to see more Hanyuu action in the next episode or two.
From what I have seen so far Higurashi's first and second season are two types of story. Yes the killer lolis are what's on surface with the first season, especailly with Onikakushi-hen and Mion/Shion's emo killings. Btw, I personally think the term "killer lolis" is very descriptive of what everyone would consider after seeing the earlier Chapters. After reading the spoiler I'd say Higurashi provided different types of content for different people.
So I guess I enjoy more the psyco thriller/suspense more than the mystery part:uhoh:
Okay I'm wondering, I haven't read the tips or anything like that, nor read summaries of the last 2 arcs, but that nurse, was in Takano it disguise?
The nurse is not Takano in disguise, her suspisous actions shoud be caused by prejudice against Houjou family or some kind of fear for the only survivor of Hinamizawa Disaster.
Btw no wonder I feel familiar with her voice... The nurse's seiyuu is Tomonaga. I like her character in Remember 11 ^^
Ishikawa Minoru
2007-08-03, 15:42
All things considered Higurashi no Naku Koro ni has, among other more important things, lolis who kill. In that regarding, it's a pretty straight forward and not so technically wrong description of the show.
On the other hand, I too feel anyone who watches the show just to see them wreck havoc is very simple minded. In fact, while I do feel sorry and some sympathy for Keiichi, Rena and the gang, I actually feel closer to someone else...because I can understand the way it thinks (for those not in the know, I used 'it' because I didn't want to reveal the gender of the person I'm referring to).
Omfgbbqwtf
2007-08-03, 15:43
Great episode... and to answer the question regarding why so many people are present at school, this is what i think....
I think it was the "soldiers" who put the bodies in the classroom (since the school has the largest room to contain all the bodies) in order to count how many casualties there are.
BakaOnna
2007-08-03, 16:03
Dang that episode owned. What a rollar coaster of emotional goodness. :heh: 10 from me.
Anyway, I never really gave thought to the fact that Keiichi's "heart failure" death in Tatarigoroshi-hen may not have been actual heart failure. At least, that's what I got out of this episode.
Also, about the nurse:
Since Takano is a nurse, it shouldn't be surprising if she had been in contract with her or worked with her before. She did seem very suspicious
Great episode... and to answer the question regarding why so many people are present at school, this is what i think....
I think it was the "soldiers" who put the bodies in the classroom (since the school has the largest room to contain all the bodies) in order to count how many casualties there are.
I don't really think that's the way how specialized SDF forces act... throwing all the bodies found into a classroom seems a little... huh... how should I put it... ugly?... Wrong?... Awkward?....
I'm pretty sure you get what I mean. I mean, I don't think specialized teams like that work - they at least put something over the bodies to cover them (and they don't usually pile it up.).
One of the most confounding contradictions of the "body pile scene" is that the soldiers seem to be genuinely intent to helping out, both in Tatarigoroshi when they drag K1 out of the water and when they rescue Satoko. That seems to imply they aren't a part of the Janitors' wipe-out squad. But they must still be covering stuff up, as the scene is more than suspicious...
I hope these questions get answered in the last two arcs, they're boggling my mind.
One of the most confounding contradictions of the "body pile scene" is that the soldiers seem to be genuinely intent to helping out, both in Tatarigoroshi when they drag K1 out of the water and when they rescue Satoko. That seems to imply they aren't a part of the Janitors' wipe-out squad. But they must still be covering stuff up, as the scene is more than suspicious...
I hope these questions get answered in the last two arcs, they're boggling my mind.
I too am pretty sure the soldiers themselves did have the intent to help out. Wasn't Akasaka's friend in the first episode of this season a SDF member involved with the lockdown? He seemed pretty clueless to me. However, we can't say the same thing about the ones giving the orders...
I only have one minor complaint about this episode, mainly because I read a little bit minagoroshi beforehand, it's not really that much of a spoiler at all but I'll tag it anyway
I'm kind of disappointed how they already visually reveal the process of Rika getting murdered because Rika never remembers nor knows how it happens becuase she is drugged beforehand. From the game's point of view she just kind of "suddenly" dies. Maybe I feel this way because I started reading Minagoroshi without that image of Rika captured and killed in my mind, and more from Rika's point of view.
Klashikari
2007-08-03, 18:46
One of the most confounding contradictions of the "body pile scene" is that the soldiers seem to be genuinely intent to helping out, both in Tatarigoroshi when they drag K1 out of the water and when they rescue Satoko. That seems to imply they aren't a part of the Janitors' wipe-out squad. But they must still be covering stuff up, as the scene is more than suspicious...
I hope these questions get answered in the last two arcs, they're boggling my mind.
It is possible that the "pilling" might be an easy way to SORT and COUNT the casualties.
but of course, it is strange, but their reaction were pretty genuine with Keiichi and Satoko.
Here we go ! I was able to wrap that insane episode into an analysis under 24 hours.
here is the linky : Episode 5 : Analysis, Thoughts and Random Comments (http://animehistory.wordpress.com/2007/08/03/higurashi-no-naku-koro-ni-kai-episode-5-analysis-thoughts-and-random-comments/)
4 hours on it... need... rest :heh:
Amazing episode...deserves a 12/10. :)
I'm sad that Rika went without a fight...you'd think she'd at least TRY, since Satoko gave her warning and everything. I know she's discouraged, but JEEZ. I'd say "Why didn't she just hide with Satoko?" but I can only assume that it's because she's tried it before...and clearly it didn't work or lead to something just as/even more horrible happening later.
What REALLY confuses me...is Rena. This arc didn't really seem to have very many Rena-centric things going on, yet all of a sudden this info about her comes to us from Oishi. So Rena knew the "disaster" was going to happen, and tried to escape/warn people...how? It occurred after midnight, so she should have been asleep and unaware just like everyone else...although from what Satoko saw at the school, it looks like quite a lot of people WEREN'T in bed. ...Why wasn't Rena with them? I wish I had a theory about this, but I don't.
It is possible that the "pilling" might be an easy way to SORT and COUNT the casualties.
but of course, it is strange, but their reaction were pretty genuine with Keiichi and Satoko.
It still seems somewhat suspect, considering the way that several of the other bodies seem to be left as if they were left where they fell dead. Not to mention that the incident couldn't have happened too long ago. That'd be quite a quick piling there....
Amazing episode...deserves a 12/10. :)
What REALLY confuses me...is Rena. This arc didn't really seem to have very many Rena-centric things going on, yet all of a sudden this info about her comes to us from Oishi. So Rena knew the "disaster" was going to happen, and tried to escape/warn people...how? It occurred after midnight, so she should have been asleep and unaware just like everyone else...although from what Satoko saw at the school, it looks like quite a lot of people WEREN'T in bed. ...Why wasn't Rena with them? I wish I had a theory about this, but I don't.
I don't think they meant that Rena purposely left a message. However, the very presence of her hat there is a message and a clue in and of itself. Just as Ooishi points out, the fact that they found it where they did, bloodied on top of that raises too many questions that it could be mere coincidence.
Klashikari
2007-08-03, 19:28
Amazing episode...deserves a 12/10. :)
What REALLY confuses me...is Rena. This arc didn't really seem to have very many Rena-centric things going on, yet all of a sudden this info about her comes to us from Oishi. So Rena knew the "disaster" was going to happen, and tried to escape/warn people...how? It occurred after midnight, so she should have been asleep and unaware just like everyone else...although from what Satoko saw at the school, it looks like quite a lot of people WEREN'T in bed. ...Why wasn't Rena with them? I wish I had a theory about this, but I don't.
read my analysis (/joke :heh:)
there are various theories possible :
Rena was maybe in her hideout, in the junkyard. Either because Rina is around her father, or she was happy hunting in it. When she comes back, changes she saw something she shouldn't are high
Rena was late for the sudden emergency call (this is the only explanation why everyone seem to be awake, and wearing their everyday clothes. thus, she might have seen something, and tried to make her escape, so she can get some help
It still seems somewhat suspect, considering the way that several of the other bodies seem to be left as if they were left where they fell dead. Not to mention that the incident couldn't have happened too long ago. That'd be quite a quick piling there....
I concur, it still suspect.
however, keep in mind that there is no specific time. we know the incident occured around midnight, but satoko fell, and probably was inconscious for a while.
It is possible that it is only 3-4 AM.
that said, there are too much holes in this.
The Bloodlust Kid
2007-08-03, 20:31
Man this episode was painful to watch. Not that it was in bad quality, but it was just so depressing.
some misconceptions of Oishi = Mr. Delicious (whomever made this remark should be drug out to the street and shot as well)Er...kj, you did find out it was a joke on 4chan right? Hell, we even gave him the nickname "Mr. Claude "Big Stone" Delicious.
My theory on Rena's actions is that...she somewhat figured it out what was happening. Recall that Rena is quite a detective. However, I thought that Rena would be able to defend herself better, but I guess it's just material they could've gone into but didn't.
This epsiode was pretty good, but just like the last epsiode, the events rushed a bit too fast. They spent all that time in the beginning to recap the epsiode when they could've spaced out the events a little better. Satoko finally survives the great disaster, which is a first all the arcs available. Although the whole hospital scene was pretty much the same in Taraimawashi-hen, it is definitely good to see more about what happened, and that Ooishi's sharp mind working again.
Now that they have mixed a bit of "new" material from the ps2 game, I think it would be intresting if they mixed some elements from Miotsukushi-hen into Matsuribayashi-hen.
Next epsiode: Finally moves into one of the best arcs ever, Minagoroshi-hen. I know the anime series has a time constrain, but I still hope that they do the timing of the events better that in, say, Tatarigoroshi-hen.
Man this episode was painful to watch. Not that it was in bad quality, but it was just so depressing.
Er...kj, you did find out it was a joke on 4chan right? Hell, we even gave him the nickname "Mr. Claude "Big Stone" Delicious.
No, I read these while I was at several English blog sites. Several of them actually took that notion seriously. I had to go to them and say that Oishi ≠ Oishii and they realized that they've got them confused.
Besides, I don't see what's funny about this joke in the first place. Are homonyms that sound familiar phonetic-wise, but not syllable-wise taken as a joke in the English world?
They can be, in the right context. Double entendre phonetically-similar word comedy goes back a looooong way.
FlareKnight
2007-08-03, 23:04
Right now I'm finding it hard to have any optimism for the future. Just look at these guys. Certainly professionals be it mercenaries, assasins, or whatever. They've got the seriously dangerous skills, tools, and weaponry. How the heck is Rika supposed to stop this kind've thing from happening?
Really can't blame her for being depressed considering the shear force she is up against here. It's tough enough to just keep her friends sane and from being a danger themselves. As for not fighting back I'd be with Rika on saying what's the point? She couldn't even handle Shion yet she's supposed to put up a battle against these guys? Sure it would look nice to put up a good fight, but she knew the outcome wouldn't change. Fighting them could've caused more trouble and possibly give away Satoko's position.
Can't really blame Rena for not making it out of that. Sure she was plenty dangerous when she was unstable. But at that point she seemed pretty sharp and probably not in the best condition to take these guys on even if she had that cleaver. It's pretty possible she was hanging out in her hideout and came back to find this happening. Sadly she couldn't escape and met a sad fate.
It's pretty obvious now that Hinamizawa residents were eradicated by human force instead of mother nature. One thing I don't understand is why did they leave a disturbing pile of dead children in the school? I mean it's even more than obvious for that scene to be similiar to a hostage situation. I would be surprised nobody in the Special Force or whatever they are called starting to get suspicious and leak the info to the outside.
Imo the scene is just too distasteful for the illusive organization behind everything happened in Hinamizawa; they had done a very lousy job.
Man this episode was painful to watch. Not that it was in bad quality, but it was just so depressing.
the beginning 1/4 of this episode took place in almost complete darkness. It was rather depressing just hearing Rika and Satoko speaking but nothing tangible was seen on screen, lol.
The Bloodlust Kid
2007-08-04, 02:58
No, I read these while I was at several English blog sites. Several of them actually took that notion seriously. I had to go to them and say that Oishi ≠ Oishii and they realized that they've got them confused.
Besides, I don't see what's funny about this joke in the first place. Are homonyms that sound familiar phonetic-wise, but not syllable-wise taken as a joke in the English world?
This is pretty much why: http://lurkmore.com/wiki/index.php?title=Higurashi_no_Naku_Koro_ni#Mr._Deli cious
It stems further than just the extra syllable.
One thing I'd like to know is, was Satoko unconcious for a whole 24 hours? Otherwise, the following sequence of events has to occur in less than 6 hours.
1. Rika's corpse is discovered by the residents
2. The police are called in to investigate, they report that Rika was not just killed, but GRUESOMELY murdered. If Oishi was part of the investigation, he eventually left the village.
3. The Great Hinamizawa Disaster. Depending on what was used, it could take minutes to hours to eliminate the whole village.
4. The SDF is notified, it takes time to gather the troops and equipment needed for the containment operation.
5. More time is needed to move the troops to Hinamizawa.
6. The troops set up roadblocks and begin recovery operations.
I can't see the first happening before morning, so the second can't happen before it does. 3 to 6 could happen in that timeframe, but police would never know there was a murder because nobody would be able to report it before the Disaster.
Miko Miko
2007-08-04, 07:37
I asked that question too (look up). Klashikari kindly gave me an answer to it, but I had to figure out for myself why there were people there too. Some points that might help you (if you're too lazy to go up and read Klashi's post, here's a digest):
1) Have you noticed they are all on their casual clothes instead of their seifukus?
2) What are Sonozaki Oryou and Elder Kimiyoshi doing at the school?
3) Why isn't Rena present?
If you can answer those questions, I guess you'll pretty much have the answer for it. ^^ Credit Klashikari for her deductive powers. xD
Wow. Now that's confusing. How did you imagine her to be? xD
Ooh Thanks For That!
I Thought that episode was the best episode in season 2 so far.
I Felt sorry for Satoko though :[
All the kids were in the School and Rena was missing, so isn't it the same as what happened in Episode 26, you know a similar situation.
Confused. o_O .
Kazuki_Kun
2007-08-04, 08:04
Ooh Thanks For That!
I Thought that episode was the best episode in season 2 so far.
I Felt sorry for Satoko though :[
All the kids were in the School and Rena was missing, so isn't it the same as what happened in Episode 26, you know a similar situation.
Confused. o_O .
I think he/she is refering to after episode 26 when the Great Hinamizawa Disaster occured and Rena survived ( as it explains in the first ep of Kai)
Sinestra
2007-08-04, 09:58
As expected of Higurashi a brilliant episode that you could not walk away from no matter how sad it was. One of the elements of Higurashi that has always kept me interested was the emtional and pshycological aspects of it. No doubt this is a series that will always come to mind when im asked whats one of the best animes you have ever seen.
Watching Rika's death was painful for me because she is my favorite character. But beyond that her sad sad fate she has resided her self to sitting and waiting for death. I can not even begin how it feels to know that a horrible event will happen over and over and there is nothing i can do to prevent it, and I myself will die and tagic death and im doomed to repeat it again and again. The time of Rika's death confused me because i always assumed she was killed in the afternoon since her body was discovered during the daylight hours. But i figured it out after sitting and thinking for a while.
The MIG sure know how to carry out an operation. Everyone was conviently gathered at the school with the exception of Satoko and Rena. It was so strange that they were all gathered at school around midnight with there normal clothes on. Which leads me to beleive that the school is the meeting point if there is an emergency and they were all gased there. Seeing the horrible painful looks on the childrens faces along with our main characters was horrible, but this is Higurashi so i have come to expect this.
Satoko's entire story was tragic first her being shunned by the community and losing her brother along with RIka's weird behaviour as her date with destiny approached. I am not surprised that her psyhce snapped after witnessing the grusome events. The fact that she was the last survivor meant that certain clue could have been discovered by Ooshi unfournetly her comatose state and her untimely death at the hands of the nurse (we all know she did it) severed any hope of finding out what really happened during the GHD.
Rena's hat and her and Satoko's connection confused me at first but after going back and watching the episode for the 2nd time i got. Turns out i was over thinking it for it was quite simple. What i got was Rena was not at the school because she was during her usual happy hunting probably at the junk yard. She either witnessed the gassing at the school or some other event and she tried to flee, to no avail. She was caught and killed most likley sliced and diced which caused the blood to get on her hat the wind blew the hat into the revine. It was found later and mentioned to Satoko who figured Rena was in the same situation as her running for her life. I am only speculation since from what i can tell Rena and Satoko did not see each other at all that night. The hat was clue that was out of the sphere of control for the MIG, its a clue that should not have existed but was and somehow made Satako realize that it was a clue from Rena even though it was accident.
So i think iv gotten most of the things down Higurashi can be very confusing at times so paying attention is a must. My only questions now which im sure will be answered by the end of Kai is who are the MIG which orginzation are they working for they must be a third party. Who would have a grudge so big that they would plan out the extirmination of over 2,000 people so methodically, not to mention there are still people missing im sure they were killed and their bodies hidden because they were outside the sphere of GHD and would mess up the time table, like Rena whose body will never be found i bet. This was a well thought out and well excuted plan that Probably took years to put into action. I cant wait to know the whole truth yet i will be sad because that means Higurashi is over.
If i have missed or i was wrong about any events could someone please correct me.
Next episode Hanyuu makes her official debut and we learn the rules of the game. I can hardly contain my self.:D
For me... I'm really up in the air about this chapter.
There's a lot of things I liked about Yakusamashi-hen as a whole.
First, it felt like Higurashi. It was in a standard format of comedy->suspense->horror->slight hope->utter despair.
Second for me, it was a HUGE plus that Yakusamashi-hen focused on Satoko. Not only did they emphasis her trap ability (which was missing from the 1st season) but they portrayed her as a tragic character. There's a lot of sympathy for her with this. That's a big plus for Minagoroshi-hen since it'll make the up coming event much much better than if they just jumped right into it.
As a stand alone chapter I loved it.
But, there was no breaking of Rule X. I think Minagoroshi-hen will have a strange start, b/c Rika died in this chapter with no hope. She just gave in. Keiichi's importance was not portrayed. Even small hopes were down played in this chapter. How is Rika's going to react when Keiichi changes fate several times in the beginning of Minagoroshi? There's no real prelude to that in this chapter. How is her fascination with him going to form in Minagoroshi when he did nothing in this chapter? She kinda died thinking it was just a miracle and it is not likely to happen again. Hanyuu herself isn't really supportive of Keiichi's miracle either. The lesson Keiichi taught her was thrown out the window...
I don't know. I like everything else about this season of Higurashi thus far. And if I didn't have the foreknowledge of Minagoroshi-hen and Keiichi as a character, I would have love this chapter.
Am I alone with this awkwardness?
I know this is recoverable. The game store events may fill her with hope, but to me it seems a bit awkward.
This was without a doubt the best episode in the second season so far, and one of the most thrilling ones I've seen altogether. I simply love watching more pieces of the puzzle fall into place, though some new questions are also raised.
Those knives the "hitmen" use to carry out the killings seem to be a terribly painful way to dispose of someone, what could the reason be for such a brutal murderweapon. I wonder, I wonder?
Klashikari
2007-08-04, 12:21
One thing I'd like to know is, was Satoko unconcious for a whole 24 hours? Otherwise, the following sequence of events has to occur in less than 6 hours.
1. Rika's corpse is discovered by the residents
2. The police are called in to investigate, they report that Rika was not just killed, but GRUESOMELY murdered. If Oishi was part of the investigation, he eventually left the village.
3. The Great Hinamizawa Disaster. Depending on what was used, it could take minutes to hours to eliminate the whole village.
4. The SDF is notified, it takes time to gather the troops and equipment needed for the containment operation.
5. More time is needed to move the troops to Hinamizawa.
6. The troops set up roadblocks and begin recovery operations.
I can't see the first happening before morning, so the second can't happen before it does. 3 to 6 could happen in that timeframe, but police would never know there was a murder because nobody would be able to report it before the Disaster.
as you commented on the last part, It was never stated that the police discovered Rika's death BEFORE the disaster. most of the time, the disaster happen withint a very short time after Rika's death. the investigations on the village probably lead them to her corpse.
However, the news pretty much imply that the SDF was on the field during the same night when the disaster occured.
(The presentator mentioned the disaster happened yesterday late at night. since it was still dark when the soldiers were dispatched, there is no way they took more than 6 hours)
@Level E : i felt that Hanyuu and Rika traded their mindsets... it is as interesting as awkward, since things are obviously getting hard to "fix" with the subject of keiichi, and Tsumihoroboshi...
at least, they might pull a subtle stunt in the early part of the minagoroshi
For me... I'm really up in the air about this chapter.
There's a lot of things I liked about Yakusamashi-hen as a whole.
First, it felt like Higurashi. It was in a standard format of comedy->suspense->horror->slight hope->utter despair.
Second for me, it was a HUGE plus that Yakusamashi-hen focused on Satoko. Not only did they emphasis her trap ability (which was missing from the 1st season) but they portrayed her as a tragic character. There's a lot of sympathy for her with this. That's a big plus for Minagoroshi-hen since it'll make the up coming event much much better than if they just jumped right into it.
As a stand alone chapter I loved it.
But, there was no breaking of Rule X. I think Minagoroshi-hen will have a strange start, b/c Rika died in this chapter with no hope. She just gave in. Keiichi's importance was not portrayed. Even small hopes were down played in this chapter. How is Rika's going to react when Keiichi changes fate several times in the beginning of Minagoroshi? There's no real prelude to that in this chapter. How is her fascination with him going to form in Minagoroshi when he did nothing in this chapter? She kinda died thinking it was just a miracle and it is not likely to happen again. Hanyuu herself isn't really supportive of Keiichi's miracle either. The lesson Keiichi taught her was thrown out the window...
I don't know. I like everything else about this season of Higurashi thus far. And if I didn't have the foreknowledge of Minagoroshi-hen and Keiichi as a character, I would have love this chapter.
Am I alone with this awkwardness?
I know this is recoverable. The game store events may fill her with hope, but to me it seems a bit awkward.
Thing is, I think Rika DID learn something about that. However, she started the arc so jaded already, that by the time she did actually notice the changes (the tassel of her hoe being clipped), she was too late to stop the gears in motion. Once Tomitake dies, after all...well, that's when it all goes downhill. If she keeps her eyes open enough this time around to see things bucked, that hope might be renewed.
And I think Keiichi didn't factor in as much in this arc because 1) Rika's despair and 2) the inklings of what really is happening were more of the forefront. Satoko was probably chosen because she's the closest to Rika, thus more likely to catch her in her darkest moments.
Klashikari
2007-08-04, 13:14
Thing is, I think Rika DID learn something about that. However, she started the arc so jaded already, that by the time she did actually notice the changes (the tassel of her hoe being clipped), she was too late to stop the gears in motion. Once Tomitake dies, after all...well, that's when it all goes downhill. If she keeps her eyes open enough this time around to see things bucked, that hope might be renewed.
And I think Keiichi didn't factor in as much in this arc because 1) Rika's despair and 2) the inklings of what really is happening were more of the forefront. Satoko was probably chosen because she's the closest to Rika, thus more likely to catch her in her darkest moments.
This is mainly the problem that Level E pointed out.
Rika's situation is really different from what she was in Tsumihoroboshi, and so, Minagoroshi will be hard to adapt, since it will be hard for them to pull out Rika as "hopeful" as she should be, because of tsumihoroboshi.
and Yakusamashi didn't help for Keiichi. as you said, Keiichi was completely in the dark, and was far from shining his might.
thus the "impact" of the miracle keiichi can create won't be possible to use for the start of Minagoroshi. this is a problem for the starting point
We obviously know that Rika learned something, but as you saw in this chapter Rika was disappointed, and her hopelesssness and despair was even more deeper. this is a major issue for Minagoroshi start, and that was what Level E pointed.
Actually, there is a way to pull it off. There's a certain method that they have used in the game that can enable the smooth transition to Minagoroshi-hen.
However, I doubt they will use that...since they have to save that for later.
But then again, does it really matter if things went back downhill in Yakusamashi-hen for Rika? A "mircale that happened two worlds ago" (Mingoroshi-hen, anime version) vs "A miracle that happened at the last world" (Minagoroshi-hen, game version), does it make that much of a difference? Isn't the important part is that, a mircale did indeed happened?
It was never stated that the police discovered Rika's death BEFORE the disaster.
The problem is, there could be NO investigation if her murder was discovered AFTER the disaster. If the SDF discovered her body after the disaster, it would be just one more tragedy to them. Given how locked down the village is after the disaster, no police would be allowed in, nor would the body be allowed out.
No, I feel that Satoko had to have been unconcious a whole day. The perpetrators wanted her body discovered before the disaster. That simply could not have happened between the time Satoko fell and daybreak.
Klashikari
2007-08-04, 14:10
The problem is, there could be NO investigation if her murder was discovered AFTER the disaster. If the SDF discovered her body after the disaster, it would be just one more tragedy to them. Given how locked down the village is after the disaster, no police would be allowed in, nor would the body be allowed out.
That is uncorrect, since Rika's death is noticeably gruesome and extremely different. The lockdown isn't instant, and the SDF has investigated around the area (thus the hat). So, because of the way she died and the time, it is impossible for the SDF to not report her case.
Even if the SDF seems to be really dubious, such case is hardly avoidable, and evidences on the site are clearly not something eraseable
And as logic, her murder must be "before the disaster", otherwise, she should have died because of the gas as well. (the area of such disaster is extremely wide, and should also reach the shrine, which isn't that far away from the village)
So the culprits don't need to expose Rika a day. It is even worse : if they keep waiting, people will be really excited (as being really devoted to oyashiro-sama) as their Miko died, so they will probably go in riots, and maybe some would flee the village. this is NOT something the culprits would like for the extermination. (heck, what would they do, if the police begins to lurk around and investigate anything dubious for a whole day? such thing will hinder the GHD plan)
and since when the bodies wouldn't be allowed to be out? They are supposed to have died in a gas disaster, that doesn't prevent them to evacuate the bodies (why would the SDF come with ambulances and trucks? in many instances, you see them wrapping the corpses and loading them in their trucks)
No, I feel that Satoko had to have been unconcious a whole day. The perpetrators wanted her body discovered before the disaster. That simply could not have happened between the time Satoko fell and daybreak.in many reports, in either animes or game TIPS, rika's death is ALWAYS followed by the disaster. never it has happened a day after, but during the very same night.
This was without a doubt the best episode in the second season so far, and one of the most thrilling ones I've seen altogether. I simply love watching more pieces of the puzzle fall into place, though some new questions are also raised.
Those knives the "hitmen" use to carry out the killings seem to be a terribly painful way to dispose of someone, what could the reason be for such a brutal murderweapon. I wonder, I wonder?
Kind of obscure, but I'd wager their style of murder was inspired by the Bertolucci movie The Conformist. (Or Il Conformista)
Check it out:
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=GHMm2VzZ2OY
rika's death is ALWAYS followed by the disaster. never it has happened a day after, but during the very same night.
Since Rika died after 12AM, if the disaster happened within 20 hours, it would still be "the very same night" and there would be plenty of time for them to move in, kill everyone, cover their tracks, leave, let the SDF move in before Satoko regained conciousness.
and since when the bodies wouldn't be allowed to be out?
Call it a hunch. We speculate that the people behind the disaster have some influence over the government, correct? One way to make sure no one finds out the truth behind the disaster would be to make sure that the bodies can never be autopsied.
why would the SDF come with ambulances and trucks? in many instances, you see them wrapping the corpses and loading them in their trucks)
Ambulances are standard for any emergencies. It would look awfully suspicious to the SDF personnel (they aren't all involved in the coverup) if there were NO ambulances with them as they went into Hinamizawa. And just because the bodies are being loaded into trucks doesn't mean they'll be taken to some place where they'll be examined. Maybe they're being sent to the swamp for disposal.
Klashikari
2007-08-04, 18:39
Since Rika died after 12AM, if the disaster happened within 20 hours, it would still be "the very same night" and there would be plenty of time for them to move in, kill everyone, cover their tracks, leave, let the SDF move in before Satoko regained conciousness.
That's not correct either, since people don't refer "something past AM" as "morning". saying the same night is pretty much explanatory, and thus, meaning : period of time, which begins after sunset (dusk) and finishes with sunrise (dawn) and not : period of time, before dawn and after dusk in the same day.
you are playing with words here.
and like i said, police would be lurking around.
no seriously, this doesn't make sense as Rika's body was investigated as well. (himatsubushi referrence). a difference of 20-24 hours is so stretch that it is simply impossible.
Call it a hunch. We speculate that the people behind the disaster have some influence over the government, correct? One way to make sure no one finds out the truth behind the disaster would be to make sure that the bodies can never be autopsied. they actually don't need to hide them, if the mean of killing is fitting the description. (as seen in this episode, they probably got gased, considering the various signs on the corpses)
furthmore, disposing the corpses is too reckless, and i would hardly believe Akasaka and Ooishi would forget this point in their investigation. not to mention Sawada.
Ambulances are standard for any emergencies. It would look awfully suspicious to the SDF personnel (they aren't all involved in the coverup) if there were NO ambulances with them as they went into Hinamizawa. And just because the bodies are being loaded into trucks doesn't mean they'll be taken to some place where they'll be examined. Maybe they're being sent to the swamp for disposal.That doesn't make sense since the complete list of deceased and missing persons is shown. SDF is most likely not responsible of autopsy either, so how they would report without confirmation of institute about status of each corpse?
Wow.
That's the only word I have for this episode.
I was surprised. This was the first time I watched Higurashi late at night with all lights off. I can say it was creepy. Satoko's legs were thin as heck again! :3
I was surprised at seeing Rika not putting up any kind of a fight - after all it seems there isn't anything to make her hopes go up. After that, it's just Satoko's desperation, and her *snap*, if you cna call it, by seeing everyone die, just as Rika predicted. It is also a kind of Tsumihoroboshi-hen solution : it's explained why Keichi was the lone survivor of the disaster, which proves that there isn't any gas in the end.
I understood praticaly everything- as to Part B, there's way too much talk going on and I get the feeling there's an heavy amount of information being revealed - especially about Rena. (I'll have to check a fansub later ^^) Oh well.
Rika can't really put up a fight because she's still only what -- ten years old? Twelve?
That, and since she's seen this scenario play out over and over and over again, she likely knows that resistance is futile. Just speed up towards the ending and let the world reset, so you can try again.
Excellent episode! Despite the fact it's patently obvious this arc hardly adds anything to the plot, I think it delivers a powerful alternate version of Tatarigoroshi-hen.
Nevertheless, what's the point in showing Rika's kidnapping? The viewer doesn't really learn anything, because the fact someone had her tagged was pretty much a given.
Furthermore, we'd already established the GHD wasn't a natural disaster back in Saikai. Unless the director spills the beans, it's all a hopeless mess. Revealing these tidbits here will most certainly impart on viewers ability to be truly surprised in the next arc....at least the shock won't be nearly as great as it'd normally be.
This arc did add to the plot.
If I remember season 1 correctly, this will be the second time Rika dies of being Watanagashi'ed (forumgoers here know it, thanks to KJ's, SushiY's, and LostBlue's tireless efforts to translate the TIPS) and the first time in the anime that it's been stated that being murdered is the normal ending for her.
If you only watched the anime, you might think it only happens once, in Tatarigoroshi-hen. It has otherwise not been shown or stated, except for the blink-and-you-missed-it mention in Himatsubushi-hen.
You also now know for sure that it was a human-induced killing, and it was NOT one of the characters we're familiar with (unless someone is moonlighting as a Grey Man).
The way all the dead villagers look, does make it seem (I'd say it makes clear, but you never know with this series, do you?) that some sort of airborne thing, likely gas, was responsible for the deaths in Hinamizawa. I can't think of any other way to kill so many people, so efficiently, and have it not look like a violent death.
I'm still thinking that by the time the final arc rolls around, Rika will have to smarten up her friends and get them to help her, and all of them, survive. She will not be able to do this on her own.
How come everyone who falls down in the river below the bridge survives?
Keiichi survived, and now Satoko?
kitedragon
2007-08-04, 19:56
If I remember correctly, the Hinamizawa residents were gassed using poisons that were identical to those that might appear in an actual gas leak. So autopsies don't matter. Also, when a mass of people die, you don't leave them around- you move them from the spot that they died in. I'd imagine that they'd be pilled up for a mass cremation or something like that.
A lot of people said that the guys in the grey used combat knives. Those looked like regular switch blades to me. I don't know what they used in Japan at that time, but normally combat knives are meant to kill a person quickly. The knives I saw looked like the kind that would make a person bleed to death, which could take anywhere between a few minutes to an hour. But there's no clear image of them, and a murder weapon is still a murder weapon.
Cheezy: If you don't fall in an incorrect manner into deep water, you won't be mortally wounded even if it's from 3 stories up. Of course, your physical condition also matters. And then by sheer luck, Satoko managed to wind up on some rocks. I'd be most worried about her freezy to death at night after getting her clothes wet.
This is mainly the problem that Level E pointed out.
Rika's situation is really different from what she was in Tsumihoroboshi, and so, Minagoroshi will be hard to adapt, since it will be hard for them to pull out Rika as "hopeful" as she should be, because of tsumihoroboshi.
and Yakusamashi didn't help for Keiichi. as you said, Keiichi was completely in the dark, and was far from shining his might.
thus the "impact" of the miracle keiichi can create won't be possible to use for the start of Minagoroshi. this is a problem for the starting point
We obviously know that Rika learned something, but as you saw in this chapter Rika was disappointed, and her hopelesssness and despair was even more deeper. this is a major issue for Minagoroshi start, and that was what Level E pointed.
But is it really that much diffrent? I don't think we have been given a clear indecation of her mind at both the start and end of any of the arcs so far not only does she have the miracle but it seems like there is a bit of bleed from the other chapters in some of the others around her. She doesn't seem to be really depressed till she was unable to save Tomitake. And this chapter is could even be more of a win for her then Tsumihoroboshi, since to her knowlage all of her friends are sane alive and safe which has been shown to be one of her main goals, but in doing so she has removed almost all her resources that could help her break this fate.
Leason of this chapter : you can't do everything alone.
First, let's start with the already cliched statement that I thought the episode was great. The nurse was creepy, Ooishi's outburst when he grabbed Satoko freaked me quite a lot, something that surprised me since you know, on paper there have been some scarier scenes in Higurashi which have not affected me much.
As already discussed, I was mostly baffled by the pile of bodies in the school.
I wonder why the bad guys with the hats/unknown perpetrators in other acts always kill Rika in the same place. If they are going to gas the village anyway, what does it matter where the body is found? Or maybe someone else gases the village after the body is found and by killing her there they fullfil the condition that leads to the extermination?
k//eternal
2007-08-04, 21:42
I think we're not looking enough at the issue of why people would want to gas or otherwise destroy a small village, anyway. That's not standard mercenary work, and somebody here is looking at the big picture, not focusing on individuals so much as we are (excepting Rika).
I'd say it's pretty clear something's being covered up, and it's probably related to the weird mental instability associated with Hinamizawa. The first ep touched on this--the idea that there's a biological agent here seems very solid, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a bioweapon that destroys without a trace, and which suddenly went out of control. Rika happens to know something about it, which is why she's going around with the needle--clearly not a vaccine, but perhaps a treatment, implying that everyone is already infected.
Well, I'd guess I'll lead the theory into the right direction, within the confines of what is given up to this episode:
What are the MIGs doing when they are killing Rika at the shrine?
Refer to the story of Watanagashi. Remember? The story about "wata" being a homonym for "intestines" and you have your clue right there.
Why carry out Rika's murder at the shrine and not somewhere else?
What's the shrine's name?
What is the purpose of the mass death?
Refer to the idea that Rika is the supposed reincarnation of the Oyashiro-sama. What was the theoretical outcome if the villagers found out about Rika's death? What arcs proved that theory to be false? Connect the dots and one can deduce the culprit's intent....
Is the Great Hinamizawa Disaster for real?
Let's see
So called "curse" where one person always dies and one person always disappears
The weird broken down plant from Nekogoroshi-hen (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=52164)
Tomitake's mysterious death
Takano's body being burnt to point of needing to rely on dental records
Dr. Irie's suicide
Rika being murdered by some well-trained men
2,000 people of Hinamizawa killed by natural gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limnic_eruption)
The scientific futility of covering up ground zero with cement
Taking over 20+ years for the restricition of travel to Hinamizawa to be lifted
What's the deal with the missing 20 people including Rena?
Some people are sharper at detecting things than others. You've all seen Rena's amazing detective skills and reading people's behaviors, right?
Who is behind the MIGs?
Hmm let's see...night vision goggles in the early 1980s, combat knives, silencers, military coordination skills and training. Definitely not your normal run-of-the-mill yakuzas.
What's the deal with the missing 20 people including Rena?
Some people are sharper at detecting things than others. You've all seen Rena's amazing detective skills and reading people's behaviors, right?
Sadly, we never got to see much of that outside of Watanagashi-hen, did we? Or did I miss some points of that in the other arcs?
Sadly, we never got to see much of that outside of Watanagashi-hen, did we? Or did I miss some points of that in the other arcs?
Onikakushi-hen
Easily saw through Kei's lie being with Oishi (lesson learned: never lie to Rena)
Watanagashi-hen/Meakashi-hen
Figuring out Rika and Satoko's disappearance from their residence to the Sonozaki residence
Tatarigoroshi-hen
Caught on what Satoko had to endure from Teppei (I don't think this was animated, but it was in the manga)
Tsumihoroboshi-hen
Sharpness of Rena of not liking Rina in the first place and figuring out the scam against her father.
This episode makes me want to catalogue every single instance those anonymous conspirators have appeared and analyze the significance.
Here's a rough start, let me know if you can think of any I'm missing..
Himatsubushi
The thugs who've kidnapped the minister's grandson seem to be the earliest (chronologically) incarnation of them.
-Presuming they're not taking their orders directly from the Hinamizawa Families, what motives do the "Disaster" culprits have in keeping the Dam from being constructed?
-Does this imply an allegiance between them and the resistance? What further could this entail?
All you have to do is ask yourself, "What would the consequences have been of the dam finishing construction?" Well, the inhabitants of Hinamazawa would have scattered all over Japan. That would make it a little more difficult for the plumbers to kill them en-masse, right?
Still there are two revelations in this episode:
Revelation 1: We now know how many plumbers there are. There are 19.
Revelation 2: Far more importantly, we now know why Rika says "nipa".
Makes me wish this wasn't the first Rika/Hanyuu afterword I got to hear in a language other than Finnish.
One thing I'd like to know is, was Satoko unconcious for a whole 24 hours? Otherwise, the following sequence of events has to occur in less than 6 hours.
1. Rika's corpse is discovered by the residents
2. The police are called in to investigate, they report that Rika was not just killed, but GRUESOMELY murdered. If Oishi was part of the investigation, he eventually left the village.
3. The Great Hinamizawa Disaster. Depending on what was used, it could take minutes to hours to eliminate the whole village.
4. The SDF is notified, it takes time to gather the troops and equipment needed for the containment operation.
5. More time is needed to move the troops to Hinamizawa.
6. The troops set up roadblocks and begin recovery operations.
I can't see the first happening before morning, so the second can't happen before it does. 3 to 6 could happen in that timeframe, but police would never know there was a murder because nobody would be able to report it before the Disaster.
There's no way the cops were called in to investigate. If that had happened they would have still been investigating when everyone died. Something about disemboweled little girls just stirs people up. Therefore the sequence of events is
1. Rika is sent on her way.
2. Within a couple of hours all Hinamazawa residents save two are gathered within the building. Then oops they all have a tragic accident. They trip or something. All the plumbers tip-toe away.
3. Someone tells the SDF that they've got a few dead people.
4. The SDF moves in, takes one look, cordons off the area, scouts around for survivors and consults with Oishi, asking him what was going on here and what what the deal with the disemboweled little kid and the bloody hat. Meitantei Oishi as usual, got nothing except vague suspicions.
5. Satoko arrives just as the clean-up operation starts.
6. Once the order comes to down to write off the Disaster to natural causes all the evidence of non-accidental death is turned over to Oishi so he can use it to berate and slap around shell-shocked children in their hospital beds.
That being said the timeline for all these events looks to me to about 16 to 20 hours. Rika was killed some time after midnight, and gathering everyone together and killing them isn't the work of a few minutes and the plumbers aren't going to call the regular military until they are well away. So I'm guessing the actual call was made by the postman or somebody when he arrives in the morning. Since Satoko arrives after nightfall that's the next day.
That being said the timeline for all these events looks to me to about 16 to 20 hours.
That's what I wanted to say, if the disaster occured right after midnight within an hour after Rika was killed, there's virtually no way it would still have been dark by the time Satoko stumbled into the recovery operations.
The most heart-wrenching episode I have seen in a long time... Poor, poor Satoko. :sad: Looking forward to next episode, and how they are going to continue after this.
I really can't give this any other rating than perfect 10.
FlareKnight
2007-08-05, 04:37
Ok I can understand someone taking that step in killing off the villagers. It could make sense in that regard. But one bit I wouldn't understand is why on earth someone with that much in terms of resources wants to take out an entire village. What kind've agenda is that exactly?
Plus I know there aren't many who could create such a force and I have an idea who is being insinuated for this. But again I'm still unable to grasp what the motive for doing such a horrific thing could be. Plus the fact that something that powerful is out for destruction leaves me kind've like Rika in hopelessness that they can stop this.
Anyways agree this was a pretty heart-wrenching episode. The poor girl gave everything to try and survive and in the end was taken out like that. Even worse when she had figured things out to a degree she is gone like that. Just glad they'll be back next week and will try to find hope they can fight this fate.
Klashikari
2007-08-05, 04:53
Revelation 1: We now know how many plumbers there are. There are 19.
Huh? What reasoning make you think they are 19 ?
That's what I wanted to say, if the disaster occured right after midnight within an hour after Rika was killed, there's virtually no way it would still have been dark by the time Satoko stumbled into the recovery operations.
If we are still implying theorycraft, why would you actually think they started the preparations of the extermination only after Rika died? wouldn't be a time saver to actually regroup everyone before? (around 10-11?) as far as you can see, only roughly 4 men were assignated to Rika's murder.
If we consider that SDF is actually involved in that matter, the fact they are already doing the recovery operations while it is dark is still logic.
This is exactly why the show implies it is extremely weird: their speed, and some weird points (body pilled up, etc)
Still, if we consider they grouped everyone before attacking Rika, that also might explain why Rena was outside, as a third possibility: Rena remembers of what Satoko said, and would feel quite abnormal to not see them during the emergency. after wandering around, either she notice something wrong in the village or, directly when she was searching for the chibiko.
Ok I can understand someone taking that step in killing off the villagers. It could make sense in that regard. But one bit I wouldn't understand is why on earth someone with that much in terms of resources wants to take out an entire village. What kind've agenda is that exactly?
Plus I know there aren't many who could create such a force and I have an idea who is being insinuated for this. But again I'm still unable to grasp what the motive for doing such a horrific thing could be. Plus the fact that something that powerful is out for destruction leaves me kind've like Rika in hopelessness that they can stop this.
this is exactly the core mystery: mastermind(s) and especially their motives ^^
It's the only thing left to figure out the inconsistences and contraditions that the "janitors" did. Let me see:
Since they are under oders from someone, let's see if I can find out hwat kind of person it is:
1) Wants the failure of the Dam project
2) Wants all residents of Hinamizawa dead. (supposedely)
3) Wants to Watangashi Rika.
It isn't much info... well there's also the fact that it ordered Irie's "suicide". And, since the janitors are extremely well trained on the art of killing.... I'm guessing they're also the ones responsible for Tomitake and Takano's death?....
Oh. Wait a second. *remembers past events of season 1*
*CLICK*
OH MY GOD! You gotta be kidding me!.... I think I figured out who it is. I just can't think of a real reason as to why that person would do it.
I really can't wait for Minagoroshi to see if my guess is correct... But, it would make so much sense. O_o
theacefrehley
2007-08-05, 07:47
What is the purpose of the mass death?
Refer to the idea that Rika is the supposed reincarnation of the Oyashiro-sama. What was the theoretical outcome if the villagers found out about Rika's death? What arcs proved that theory to be false? Connect the dots and one can deduce the culprit's intent....
Hmm
About the theoretical outcome I can only think of one (TIP):
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=601921&postcount=64
"Furude Rika, the little girl who looks over to protect Hinamizawa. What would happen if Hinamizawa loses her divine protection? What would happen if the tranquility between the humans and the demons were to wither away? Would all hell break loose once again as human-eating demons begin to engulf the village?
Weak and powerless humans cry and scream as the demons feast and remember what it was like to be their former selves.
...I wonder what a spectacle that would be. My heart pounds in excitement just imagining what it would be like."
My memory is not quite good (I think I'm getting senile:heh:), but is this that you're referring to?
Erm.. a TIP here. Wasn't this thread supposed to be spoilerless or i misunderstood something ?
theacefrehley
2007-08-05, 09:12
TIP is mising info from the game
it's not really spoiler
and there's a thread about it
Klashikari
2007-08-05, 09:15
Erm.. a TIP here. Wasn't this thread supposed to be spoilerless or i misunderstood something ?
TIP can be read by anyone lurking around here, and their purpose is not to spoil, but giving additional information.
nothing fortelling or anything.
Revelation 2: Far more importantly, we now know why Rika says "nipa".
Makes me wish this wasn't the first Rika/Hanyuu afterword I got to hear in a language other than Finnish.
...we do?
Message too short
Huh? What reasoning make you think they are 19 ?
Well, it was mentioned that twenty residents of Hinamizawa weren't among the dead bodies, so one can assume that 19 of them were "the cleaners/plumbers/thugs" and the twentieth was Rena. Of course, we can't be sure that the bad guys live in Hinamizawa to begin with, so that's a dodgy assumption, IMO.
That's what I wanted to say, if the disaster occured right after midnight within an hour after Rika was killed, there's virtually no way it would still have been dark by the time Satoko stumbled into the recovery operations.
I disagree, a lightning quick "disaster" and rescue operation still a hell of a lot more likely to me than Satoko being unconsious for about 24 hours. I know that "the government is behind it, duh" is the ultimate cliche in such stories but I do believe the SDF's quick reaction was not by chance at all. Though my hunch is not that the government is the to blame but that they know more than us about the secrets of Hinamizawa and were ready to react ASAP.
Klashikari
2007-08-05, 11:01
Well, it was mentioned that twenty residents of Hinamizawa weren't among the dead bodies, so one can assume that 19 of them were "the cleaners/plumbers/thugs" and the twentieth was Rena. Of course, we can't be sure that the bad guys live in Hinamizawa to begin with, so that's a dodgy assumption, IMO.
Oh i see, interesting point, though like you mentioned, it appears to be a dodgy assumption than anything else:
yup, no proof that these guys were registered as inhabitants of hinamizawa. heck, i don't think an operation as big like this could be flawless, preventing some person to flee (Rena is a "living" example for this)
...we do?
Message too short
We do. That was the point about saying that in Hinamazawa's local dialect when old people talk about relaxing they use the word "nipper/nipah". Rika is an old person. When she says "nipah" she's telling people to relax, not take things so seriously.
Oh i see, interesting point, though like you mentioned, it appears to be a dodgy assumption than anything else:
yup, no proof that these guys were registered as inhabitants of hinamizawa. heck, i don't think an operation as big like this could be flawless, preventing some person to flee (Rena is a "living" example for this)
If twenty innocent residents successfully fled then there would be all hell to pay later. The natural disaster story would never have stuck. It wouldn't really be all that difficult to gather all the residents of a small town together in one building if you looked official and had credentials and a cover story. Maybe one or two others managed to make it out, but the fact that 20 people are missing strongly suggested to me that almost all of them are the plumbers.
If twenty innocent residents successfully fled then there would be all hell to pay later. The natural disaster story would never have stuck. It wouldn't really be all that difficult to gather all the residents of a small town together in one building if you looked official and had credentials and a cover story. Maybe one or two others managed to make it out, but the fact that 20 people are missing strongly suggested to me that almost all of them are the plumbers.
Missing people could mean two things. Missing as in they escaped the disaster. Or missing as in the SDF didn't find their corpses.
Huh? What reasoning make you think they are 19 ?
If we are still implying theorycraft, why would you actually think they started the preparations of the extermination only after Rika died? wouldn't be a time saver to actually regroup everyone before? (around 10-11?) as far as you can see, only roughly 4 men were assignated to Rika's murder.
Yes, but you don't really want to save time. If the population of Hinamaza have their tragic accident due to excessively waxed floors at about the same time that Rika dies, and then the SDF almost immediately shows up for no reason, that would look distinctly hinky.
It would raise the questions:
Why was the entire civilian population of the town minus one gathered together in one building in the middle of the night at the same moment that the one was being killed. And given that they were dieing at that moment...who killed her? Do we need to search for a surviving murderer? And how did the SDF know anything was wrong anyway?
As things stand they have an analysis that seems to wrap things up nicely:
1. There was some kind of serial killer or cult in Hinamazawa inspired by the Oyashiro-sama myth.
2. Rika died at their hands.
3. Someone discovered the body and alerted the town leadership who instead of calling the authorities, gathered everyone together for a town meeting.
4. While everyone was discussing the situation, they all had a tragic accident and died.
But this story is kind of dependant on there being some kind of noticeable time gap between Rika's death and the death of everyone else.
A strained coincidence, but hints that it was some kind of divine wrath reaction to the death of the "incarnation of Oyashiro-sama" will help paper over the unlikelihood of the scenario. Presumable "they" have someone in the SDF force who will keep anyone not in the know from carefully examining the building sprinkler system.
Baka-neko
2007-08-05, 13:13
This episode left me craving for more.
Well done by deen, wish the first season was made more like this.
Though I've never liked Satoko much but seeing my Shion lying there dead was tough :(
I think it really makes sense that this group or whatever destroyed the village. For one thing, while a force strong enough to destroy a village and make it look like an accident would likely be strong enough to disregard most dangers that this village's continuing existence may pose. However, since many factors still point to the possibility that some force is trying to engineer a biological weapon or some other microbe/virus-based device, the destruction becomes completely predictable. If, as I continue to believe, some organization is developing a biological device and chose by expediency or necessity to use the village of Hinamizawa as a living laboratory, then the end of the project would by necessity involve sterilization of test material, which could be accomplished easily in manners that would resemble the aftermath of a volcanic gas eruption.
There's another possibility, though. Since everything seemed to start with the dam, it seems likely that the disease or parasite was unknown until this conflict occured. In a small, remote village where most people know one another, neither conflict nor prolonged travel are terribly likely. Since these seem to be the factors that make the otherwise benign disease become agressive, it probably was first discovered after the project encouraged both. Rather than a weapon, the government may have seen this as a dangerous disease. If other locations are hospitable, the nation could be pockmarked with undetectable hotspots where anyone who stayed long enough would become a psychopath. Rather than harnessing its military potential, the first priority may have been preventing its spread. The first plan would, naturally, have been to devise some cure or vaccine. If the disease only infects humans, it would be necessary both to introduce their treatments to people and agitate patients to determine the extent of the treatments' efficacy. If a disease cannot be treated then it becomes necessary to quarantine the sick until they die or overcome it. Since there's no way to tell if a person has become immune, and the disease will not kill its victims without agitation, the government may have had no choice but to purge the disease in more direct means.
Back to the episode, I couldn't help but think Satoko was still a little out of it when she woke up. If she understood any amount, she should have known that there were people involved and she didn't know if those around her were trustworthy. In such a situation, she was safe only as long as outside parties could protect her or so long as the enemies didn't consider her a threat. If she'd been completely alert, she would've played dead until she could get out.
Missing people could mean two things. Missing as in they escaped the disaster. Or missing as in the SDF didn't find their corpses.
Considered it, but 20 is too many. Shipping 20 bodies out of the area? Even if they wanted to keep some samples, 20 would be too much. The simplest explanation is that the missing people are the perpetrators.
Hinamizawa has 2'000 inhabitants. 20 missing people (let's suppose they tried to flee.) isn't that much. In fact, I think it's the most likely amount of "exceptions" in such a big group.
Hinamizawa has 2'000 inhabitants. 20 missing people (let's suppose they tried to flee.) isn't that much.
How many people Hinamazawa has doesn't matter. If 20 people rabbit then the plumbers have to have at least twice that many just to chase them since they can't use guns without panicking all the rest and leaving suspicious amounts of blood all around. Then they have to transport all those bodies and themselves out of Hinamazawa without being noticed.
Klashikari
2007-08-05, 19:07
2000 inhabitants is anyway too much to handle.
Rena was able to find out something specific, and there might be drunkard and many random nocturnal persons, missing persons don't mean suvirvors, but just erased people, who couldn't be gased, either if the SDF is involved or not.
if they have the ressource to take out such amount of people, why would it be difficult to take care of 20 bodies?
heck, nekorogoshi has shown a perfect place for this, the "bottomless" pit, in the Quarry.
Completely desert, and no one would ever think about it (much like the Sonozaki Well, until Keiichi pointed it after he got saved in watanagashi/meakashi)
2000 inhabitants is anyway too much to handle.
That's why they have to be tricked. And that's why the plumbers can't go around killing twenty of them in advance of the main event, because that would give them away. There'd be screaming and shooting, and blood on the ground. It would all seem very suspicious.
Klashikari
2007-08-05, 19:26
What i meant : 2000 is too much to really have a perfect result.
you will always have various factors, much like sensitive persons, drunkard etc.
Rena as the only exception among 2000 persons? it is hardly believable, and more leak are to be expected
I would hardly believe they don't have any back up plan: sticking on a trap like this, without any countermeasure for any leaking is far from being flawless. and much like what we can expect in Hinamizawa, the number of good area to hide evidences are quite numerous, not oblidged to "export" them :heh:
I just checked the TIPS thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=603633&postcount=65) and the first time we encountered the gas disaster (ep.13) and it mentions "over 1,200 victims confirmed. Over 20 people reported missing" which is knid of a weird discrepancy in the number of victims but a telling match in the number of missing (even though over 20 might mean say 24, it's still very close to the number mentioned in this episode). Seems to me that these 20 or so are the "plumbers" indeed.
EDIT:
Furthermore in the same thread there is an interview with Keiichi who claims he had been unconscious for more than a day when the disaster struck. After reading that, the same thing happening to Satoko doesn't seem that impossible to me...
I just checked the TIPS thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=603633&postcount=65) and the first time we encountered the gas disaster (ep.13) and it mentions "over 1,200 victims confirmed. Over 20 people reported missing" which is knid of a weird discrepancy in the number of victims but a telling match in the number of missing (even though over 20 might mean say 24, it's still very close to the number mentioned in this episode). Seems to me that these 20 or so are the "plumbers" indeed.
EDIT:
Furthermore in the same thread there is an interview with Keiichi who claims he had been unconscious for more than a day when the disaster struck. After reading that, the same thing happening to Satoko doesn't seem that impossible to me...
Eh...thing is, the 'plumbers' or 'janitors' seemed very....trained. Again, night vision and that kind of coordination doesn't just happen, especially in 1983. I find it highly unlikely these guys were part of the population.
And remember, things don't repeat exactly. If I remember correctly, Keiichi was found still out cold, wasn't he? Whereas Satoko washed up and was found only after she screamed in horror at what she saw. And from the directions the SDF were giving, it sounded like they had only recently got there.
I never said events repeat themselves exactly, I just find it too much of a coincidence that about twenty people were missing in both cases. And what's stopping the plumbers from being both highly trained and village residents? After all, the nurse is an accomplice in the conspiracy, too, and she probably lives in Okinomiya. Whoever is behind it all must have people reporting what's going on in Hinamizawa and probably living there, who knows these people might be the very same highly trained pros who murdered Rika.
We do. That was the point about saying that in Hinamazawa's local dialect when old people talk about relaxing they use the word "nipper/nipah". Rika is an old person. When she says "nipah" she's telling people to relax, not take things so seriously.
The problem is that the first fansub that went up by "Ni-paa~" exlcuded the "jikai" (preview) segment. It is on the "Hau~" sub though.
I assume that you're being half serious...these segments with Rika and Hanyuu are meant to be taken lightly. :heh: I'm not sure if that's obvious in the translation or not though, but in this case, the explanation of "niparu" as a verb used in Hinamizawa dialect is almost certainly a clever joke.
---
This episode was fantastic, I really think this shows promise for the remaining arcs with the story supervision in the most suited hands. KJ980's analysis of how they corrected some of the mistakes of the first series in this arc really sums it up nicely. If only the first run could have had this kind of guidance. I can't wait to see Minagoroshi-hen, the part of the story I bought the sound novel for...
Mirrinus
2007-08-05, 23:48
Finally got around to watching this episode, and like most of you, I too thought it was quite impressive. It certainly wrapped up many loose threads from the previous season. However, I can't help but voice the same concerns as a few others here and wonder just how Rika will be portrayed in the next chapter, as this one happened on a decidedly different note than the last chapter of the previous season. Can we take it for granted that Nekogoroshi-hen occurred directly before Minagoroshi-hen? I can't seem to remember how many references there were...and part of me suspects that this chapter might not go in correct chronological order (well, as chronological as it can get in the Higurashi universe).
Eh...thing is, the 'plumbers' or 'janitors' seemed very....trained. Again, night vision and that kind of coordination doesn't just happen, especially in 1983. I find it highly unlikely these guys were part of the population.
That depends on what you mean by "part of the population". Were they born in Hinamazawa? Obviously not. But they've been operating in Hinamazawa for the last five years. We first saw them in the kidnapping case and we have no reason to think they ever left. They're stationed there, and presumably have cover identities and places to stay.
The problem is that the first fansub that went up by "Ni-paa~" exlcuded the "jikai" (preview) segment. It is on the "Hau~" sub though.
I assume that you're being half serious...these segments with Rika and Hanyuu are meant to be taken lightly. :heh: I'm not sure if that's obvious in the translation or not though, but in this case, the explanation of "niparu" as a verb used in Hinamizawa dialect is almost certainly a clever joke.
Yes, I wasn't really being serious about the great revelation.
mist2123
2007-08-06, 07:56
its safe to say that the master mind is an oyashiro fanatic also doesnt like the damn project because if the village is gone the oyashiro killing ends.
Ok. After reading a thread about Rena's message (in a Chinese forum) I think I'm start to believe what they said.
There are about 20 people went missing and their bodies were not found afterward. Two possibilities: 1) was taken away for experimentation, 2) they were alarmed during the gas-the-whole-village event and were eradicated and hidden by the janitors.
According to the original story, the reason for students gather at the school was because Chie sensei and the principal discovered some abnormality and called in or use whatever other methods try to gather all students to the school. Now let's analyze Rena's behavior during that time.
Possibility 1: Same as in Tsumihoroboshi-hen, Rena read Takano's note, discovered the local disease of Hinamizawa and tried to escape with the truth. It's not likely for her to not escape with her friends/club members, thus this is not likely.
Possibility 2: Rena has been phoned to go to school for the "emergency", but she decided to hide herself. Not likely because she has no reason to abandon her friends and escape alone.
Possibility 3: On her way to school Rena met the escaping Rika and was told to run away. But even this is the case Rena would priorize and try to contact her friends; and also if she was done in by the janitors before reaching the school, then she knew nothing about the gasing Hinamizawa event. If she knew nothing she couldn't possibily leave a message.
Possibility 4: When Rena arrived at the school, the elimination was done. Seeing that Rena attemps to escape at once. This certainly is highly probable and logical, but the anime is hinting something even more dramatic.
Possibility 5 (most likely): Rena received the notice and was coming to school. But she fought off and successfully escaped from the janitors with the help of K1, Mion, Shion (who died in the hallway instead of in the classroom). So they exchanged their lives in order to let Rena escape. But the janitors caught up with her in the forest. To leave a message saying the whole thing is a conspiracy Rena threw her hat with blood on it to somewhere outside of the accident area so when it's found others might learn something from it. Why K1, Mion and Shion would only help Rena escape but not everyone? Because their plan is to just have one person escape to carry out this message, or possibibly, bring help. Thusly the bloody hat is not only the message left by Rena, but also carried the weight of all club members.
Klashikari
2007-08-06, 10:26
Ok. After reading a thread about Rena's message (in a Chinese forum) I think I'm start to believe what they said.
There are about 20 people went missing and their bodies were not found afterward. Two possibilities: 1) was taken away for experimentation, 2) they were alarmed during the gas-the-whole-village event and were eradicated and hidden by the janitors.
According to the original story, the reason for students gather at the school was because Chie sensei and the principal discovered some abnormality and called in or use whatever other methods try to gather all students to the school. Now let's analyze Rena's behavior during that time.
Possibility 1: Same as in Tsumihoroboshi-hen, Rena read Takano's note, discovered the local disease of Hinamizawa and tried to escape with the truth. It's not likely for her to not escape with her friends/club members, thus this is not likely.
Possibility 2: Rena has been phoned to go to school for the "emergency", but she decided to hide herself. Not likely because she has no reason to abandon her friends and escape alone.
Possibility 3: On her way to school Rena met the escaping Rika and was told to run away. But even this is the case Rena would priorize and try to contact her friends; and also if she was done in by the janitors before reaching the school, then she knew nothing about the gasing Hinamizawa event. If she knew nothing she couldn't possibily leave a message.
Possibility 4: When Rena arrived at the school, the elimination was done. Seeing that Rena attemps to escape at once. This certainly is highly probable and logical, but the anime is hinting something even more dramatic.
Possibility 5 (most likely): Rena received the notice and was coming to school. But she fought off and successfully escaped from the janitors with the help of K1, Mion, Shion (who died in the hallway instead of in the classroom). So they exchanged their lives in order to let Rena escape. But the janitors caught up with her in the forest. To leave a message saying the whole thing is a conspiracy Rena threw her hat with blood on it to somewhere outside of the accident area so when it's found others might learn something from it. Why K1, Mion and Shion would only help Rena escape but not everyone? Because their plan is to just have one person escape to carry out this message, or possibibly, bring help. Thusly the bloody hat is not only the message left by Rena, but also carried the weight of all club members.
possibility 1: like you said, very unlikely, considering there is no reason for rena to doubt about anything until the emergency
possibility 2: you nailed the point
possibility 3: impossible since Rika gave up already. it cannot be satoko either for obvious reasons
possibility 4: highly possible
possibility 5: it is very unlikely that the twins and keiichi were able to do anything, otherwise, it would generate a riot, and it is really not possible if there is a uproar during the extermination plan. considering how their corpses were lying in the classroom, while the other kids were pilled, we can assume they weren't moved at all.
If we consider that the three of them permit rena to escape, i don't think they would be able to get killed by gas, but erased completely (which won't be that suspicious since they are in gang, and they "could" be considered as missing as a group)
mist2123
2007-08-06, 12:13
My complete analysis.
* Rika knew that she will be killed. If she hid with satoko the 'janitors'/'plumbers' might suspect that they are hidding killing them both.
*Rena may have went to check with satoko and rika after satoko fell from the bidge and discover the dead rika. She may have tried to contact with the police but was killed or tried to run away from the janitors who spotted her when she saw rika dead.
*Why were all the students group together and not the "gang"(mion's friends).Why is 'Onibaba' there with the students.
*If the SPD gathered the body and put them in piles why did the mion,kei and shion not part of the pile.
*If it was volcanic gas then rena and satoko would have died.
*Why did irie commit suicide? Maybe somebody injected him with the 'Poison' That rika tried to inject on shion and he commit suicide instead of dying painfully.Somebody might have been watching satoko ever since she figured out that somebody was following them.
*Why did those 'plumbers'/'janitors' opened the (Abandoned?) station?
*Maybe the hinamizawa disaster was just 'PLAN B'/'emergency plan(to wipe out hinamizawa) and used it to hide the evidences.
Ok. After reading a thread about Rena's message (in a Chinese forum) I think I'm start to believe what they said.
There are about 20 people went missing and their bodies were not found afterward. Two possibilities: 1) was taken away for experimentation, 2) they were alarmed during the gas-the-whole-village event and were eradicated and hidden by the janitors.
I still believe the third option. If they were taken away for experimentation then surely by 20 years later that experimentation would have borne some fruit that we would have been told of by virtue of Chekov's Law. Similarly if the plumbers killed them by ways that couldn't be natural causes that introduces an unnecessary complication into the story that has no payoff.
Whatever the plans for Hinamizawa were, I'm guessing they'd set up damage control long ago. It wouldn't be that difficult to stockpile large amounts of deadly, heavy gases, and once released they would collect easily in the lowest parts of the valley. This would explain why people were gathered in the center of town, where concentrations would be most lethal. After so many years, several people must have developed some level of suspicion or uncertainty, and they would have likely been on the alert and ready to try and save everyone if called so suspiciously. If anyone was too suspicious or resistant, or just hadn't gone far enough downhill to die with the others, then they would have been executed. I'm guessing that K1 and the others all caught on that something really bad was happening, and that everyone was in danger. None of these guys cared only about their friends, they'd have tried to save everyone. Most of them probably went to the school to protect the kids and organize an escape, but running blind would be suicide, so they had Rena sneak out to watch any enemies and, more importantly, find a safe way to get past them. By the time everyone in the valley realized how they were to be killed, the gas must have built up to the point that they couldn't possibly make it to high ground in time. Also, we don't really know that everyone died at the school, do we? Since there was no blood, there's no way to tell whether they'd fallen where they were or had been gathered there for disposal. It is possible that people had tried to escape but their bodies had been brought back.
mist2123
2007-08-06, 18:31
Isnt volcanic gas heavy(density) doesnt that mean its started from the top maybe the mountain or quary.
I don't think this could have been done as a general release of gas in the village, especially if the villains were trying to emulate natural volcanic gases or a massive release of CO2 from the swamp. These would have been heavier than air, and would gather in low places, e.g., places like the ravine below the bridge. If the gas concentration was enough to kill the people in the village, it should have also been enough to kill Keiichi or Satoko in the ravine. In this case, something else must have happened, unless I have missed some quirk in the topography.
MrZombie
2007-08-07, 01:11
I have to say, notap, that this is the nicest theory so far. I like it.
Thanks, but it's giving me some really awful images of what might have happened in town. I mean, opening a valve and walking away is pretty bad, but doing it up close...yikes. The bad guys must be cold as ice.
Hagges01
2007-08-07, 03:15
hmm...worried, this got me thinking about the future, wondering about the message
indeed Higurashi got too much left to explain, now I consider Satoko an interesting and important character........god that was good
FlareKnight
2007-08-07, 06:16
Thanks, but it's giving me some really awful images of what might have happened in town. I mean, opening a valve and walking away is pretty bad, but doing it up close...yikes. The bad guys must be cold as ice.
Considering they can grab a little girl and cut her open to die like that...I don't think gassing a ton of villagers would be that tough on them. Doesn't seem like mass murder or even stabbing which I assume happened to Rena bothers these guys too much.
Seems possible they simply grouped all these people together then gassed the individual areas. Certainly the mental imagery of what happened just in this episode is pretty rough.
mist2123
2007-08-07, 06:50
There is a clue on how the SDF is involved in this in episode 1.
theacefrehley
2007-08-07, 10:08
Thinking back
It's not that absurd to think that the 20 missing people were the "janitors" or at least some of the missing people
They are there for more than 5 years
Surely they mingled with the people (on tsumihoroboshi one of them was a "landscaper")
5 years completely hidden is far more difficult than "turn into a normal citizen"
Well, in the end, it doesn't make any difference it they were or not:heh:
z3phyr.mp3
2007-08-07, 10:40
^
since irie-sensei was working with the "janitors" back in the first arc... i ithink that the theory that the 20 -1, since rena is one of them, are the "janitors"... but as said earlier in this thread, there are many other possibilities of who those 20 are...
I don't think this could have been done as a general release of gas in the village, .
Oh we know it wasn't. The cops said that the gas would have left marks on the village that weren't there in the first episode of this series. I'm confident the gas release was only in one building and that's why the townsfolk were gathered in that building. You might call it a...final solution. I call them "plumbers" for a couple of reason's and how they must have released the gas is one of them.
mist2123
2007-08-07, 13:11
Oh we know it wasn't. The cops said that the gas would have left marks on the village that weren't there in the first episode of this series. I'm confident the gas release was only in one building and that's why the townsfolk were gathered in that building. You might call it a...final solution.
did you forget about people in their houses they also died
Wanderer
2007-08-07, 13:11
About the MIG being the 20 missing people. Well, all the janiters we saw seemed to be male and combat aged. Certainly they wouldn't have families there, and leaving/entering into the close knit community of Hinamizawa is a big deal...
Let's see, of all the missing people (save Rena), all of them are male, between 18 and 35, have no family (in hinamizawa at least) and moved to Hinamizawa within the last 5 years (or at least were away long enough to be professionally trained)... hmm...
It's really a ridiculous notion.
My main questions are:
Why are people at the school? Why are they in their casual clothes? And here is a question that no one else has touched on: Why is it only the students, teachers, Oryou and Kimiyoshi? Where are all the childrens' parents and why aren't they with their kids? (Most of the residents died in their beds right?)
What is the agenda of the person or people behind the MIG?
Why does Irie get offed? It seems he knows something he shouldn't. (I am actually suspicious that he is involved somehow in people going crazy, and perhaps the greater conspiracy, and that perhaps Takano is involved with him... seeing as they work together)
How does Rika know that everyone will die after she dies (she says it in episode 4)?
Why do the MIG bother to go through the trouble to watanagashi Rika when the town is about to be wiped anyway?
Why didn't the MIG search for Satoko in the house? Isn't the fact that Satoko lives with Rika common knowledge?
Why do people who fall from the bridge and fall unconscious seem to be the only ones who survive the GHD? (Though not for long after).
Well, it's looking pretty clear that the destruction of Hinamizawa is an outside conspiracy, rather than an inside one or a supernatural force. I kinda thought that the MIG might be a red herring, but it seems I was wrong.
mist2123
2007-08-07, 13:15
How does Rika know that everyone will die after she dies (she says it in episode 4)? uhhh....... time resets after she die and she already experienced it more than 1 time
k//eternal
2007-08-07, 13:22
NOTE: This is conjecture regarding the mastermind(s) behind this mess.
Why does Irie get offed? It seems he knows something he shouldn't. (I am actually suspicious that he is involved somehow in people going crazy, and perhaps the greater conspiracy, and that perhaps Takano is involved with him... seeing as they work together)
Well, from the first season, I'm pretty sure Takano is the mastermind behind all this. The obvious points aside, don't forget that she's supposed to be a complete outsider, but if she came to Hinamizawa out of curiosity about its legends, there's no need to be a nurse at the clinic. She's clearly good at manipulating others, and seems to KNOW that what she does will drive them to insanity.
Also, being from outside, she's one of the most likely to be able to bring in the force of MIGs.
Klashikari
2007-08-07, 13:43
How does Rika know that everyone will die after she dies (she says it in episode 4)?
auauau mascot? :]
Why didn't the MIG search for Satoko in the house? Isn't the fact that Satoko lives with Rika common knowledge?Let's say their primary target is Rika, and she might be with other villagers. they don't have the time, considering th schedule of the extermination plan, as we can see.
Why do people who fall from the bridge and fall unconscious seem to be the only ones who survive the GHD? (Though not for long after). Because they are simply far from the supposed GHD.
Well, from the first season, I'm pretty sure Takano is the mastermind behind all this. The obvious points aside, don't forget that she's supposed to be a complete outsider, but if she came to Hinamizawa out of curiosity about its legends, there's no need to be a nurse at the clinic. She's clearly good at manipulating others, and seems to KNOW that what she does will drive them to insanity.
Also, being from outside, she's one of the most likely to be able to bring in the force of MIGs.
So what? keiichi is a complete outsider, various people also. Takano was a nurse in Irie's clinic for several years, and every villager know her.
If she is a outsider, what about tomitake who visits hinamizawa only some days each year?
there is no need to be a outsider for being the mastermind(s). the said "culprit(s)" can be a villager(s) who is one of the missing people
your assumption doesn't have valid points, though indeed, Takano has a creepy and fishy attide with the stories. but heck, who isn't suspicious in that series anyway, outside of the 6 main characters?
Let's wait for Minagoroshi-hen anyway. there is enough material to accurately guess/confirm the culprit(s).
however, this is the core mystery of higurashi, and it would be preferable to let people think about it alone, without giving influence to the others. it is hard to begin to contradict or confirm, since it might be spoiler anyway.
Waiting for 5-10 episodes isn't a big deal :]
edit : bolded, since the fellow member had the good idea to litteraly say who it was..."
Wanderer
2007-08-07, 21:32
Because they are simply far from the supposed GHD.
When I first saw Tatarigoroshi-hen, that's what I thought. Then I read the interview from the end of Tatarigorishi-hen placed in the TIPS section, which discounted that theory.
Ah now I get it. The interviewer's source was actually conducting his experiments on the false basis that it was volcanic gas... those sneaky writers... I tip my hat to them once again...
Well, there's an important question answered :D
k//eternal
2007-08-08, 00:10
Note: Like the above post I made, this is also conjecture on the mastermind(s).
So what? keiichi is a complete outsider, various people also. Takano was a nurse in Irie's clinic for several years, and every villager know her.
If she is a outsider, what about tomitake who visits hinamizawa only some days each year?
there is no need to be a outsider for being the mastermind(s). the said "culprit(s)" can be a villager(s) who is one of the missing people
Well, we know it isn't Keiichi, and you're going on "square is a rectangle" logic here. The culprit has to have strong outside ties, because the MIGs come from outside (as established before here). Additionally, to want to wipe out the village, someone is probably looking at a bigger picture than just Hinamizawa itself; since Hinamizawa is so secluded, the villagers aren't likely to be thinking that way.
Consequently, the culprit is someone from outside. That narrows things down.
Now, Irie is pretty suspicious, and (IIRC) he's been associated with the MIGs before. Combine that with Takano's attitude and clearly-intentional manipulation and it's fully plausible that they're together in this conspiracy.
As for "who isn't suspicious"... well, look at it this way. Write up a list of characters, cross off the mains and the villagers, and you really don't have much left. In my experience it never happens that a mystery story has a culprit who isn't introduced as a "normal" character, because that leaves too little room for development and the culprit's motives.
So I'm pretty sure I'm right on this one, the question I have is more why, not who.
Hello. May I join you? Last year I kind of missed Higurashi and for the last couple of weeks I was watching for 1st season. The nail thing was pretty nasty, yep.
Now I'm through 5 episodes of the new series.
"Ils sont tous morts" is what I can say about the episode.
Watched the episode without subtitles but since it had numerous flashback scenes it was pretty understandable.
Wanderer
2007-08-08, 12:50
Well, we know it isn't Keiichi, and you're going on "square is a rectangle" logic here. The culprit has to have strong outside ties, because the MIGs come from outside (as established before here). Additionally, to want to wipe out the village, someone is probably looking at a bigger picture than just Hinamizawa itself; since Hinamizawa is so secluded, the villagers aren't likely to be thinking that way.
Consequently, the culprit is someone from outside. That narrows things down.
Now, Irie is pretty suspicious, and (IIRC) he's been associated with the MIGs before. Combine that with Takano's attitude and clearly-intentional manipulation and it's fully plausible that they're together in this conspiracy.
As for "who isn't suspicious"... well, look at it this way. Write up a list of characters, cross off the mains and the villagers, and you really don't have much left. In my experience it never happens that a mystery story has a culprit who isn't -introduced as a "normal" character, because that leaves too little room for development and the culprit's motives.
So I'm pretty sure I'm right on this one, the question I have is more why, not who.
Indeed. It wouldn't be nearly as fun for the audience if the culprit was someone entirely out of the blue. So... by now it's clear that none of the main characters are behind it... which leaves the side characters.
Funny though, it's hard to imagine Irie condoning such a brutal murder of Rika since he lubs the chibiko so much. Maybe it's his reluctance that gets him killed? :heh:
Actually, I think it's most likely that Irie is not a mastermind at all, and rather is being used as a pawn for his medical knowledge and usefulness as the local doctor. If this whole thing is indeed an experiment, there's a need to keep an eye on the test subjects. The best way to do that discreetly is through the local doctor, since he is both qualified and has access. Why he's working with the bad guys might be because he's been blackmailed, or perhaps he's been fooled into thinking that the experiment is something else. This would also explain his extermination, because at that point he has outlived his usefulness and has become a liability.
Takano remains as mysterious as ever. Her death seems fake to be sure, but she seems too obvious for me to point my finger squarely at her to be behind all of this.
I
Actually, I think it's most likely that Irie is not a mastermind at all, and rather is being used as a pawn for his medical knowledge and usefulness as the local doctor. If this whole thing is indeed an experiment, there's a need to keep an eye on the test subjects. The best way to do that discreetly is through the local doctor, since he is both qualified and has access. Why he's working with the bad guys might be because he's been blackmailed,.
Conspiracy: You will serve our will or we will reveal your perverse attraction to little girls in maid costumes!
Irie: My most closely held secret? Nooooo!
It's not much of a "secret" considering how easily he reveals it in several episodes in the first season and again in ep2 of this season.
k//eternal
2007-08-08, 14:59
Clearly he gets a constant supply of fresh virgins from Conspiracy, Inc.
It's not much of a "secret" considering how easily he reveals it in several episodes in the first season and again in ep2 of this season.
Yes, that was the joke.
Irie being a pawn actually seems like an idea that could hold some water, especially because of his mentioned usefulness as a local doctor.
The cops' discussion of volcanic gas was the "rumors" going around since Hinamizawa was reopened. As the junior officer said, it would be hard to tell after so many years had passed. Anyway, that's only an issue in the case of a major gas eruption containing hydrogen sulfide. To kill off everyone in a valley, one does not need as high a concentration for as long a duration as would come from a real eruption, and other, less corrosive gases are also effective, so the lack of evidence actually would suggest to me only that this was a controlled event and quickly cleaned up. The people obviously died from poison, and there were actually several adults among those in the school(I checked). My guess would be that the Three Families and the children were considered a higher risk, because the Three Families live on slightly higher ground(if I remember right) and are more knowledgeable, so they might suspect something and try to resist, and because not only are the children more difficult to catch and possibly healthy enough to survive longer than others, they also are more observant and curious, so again they might suspect something and try to resist. Perhaps some ploy was devised to gather the "governing" bodies of the town as well as teachers and students.
If I remember right, the ravine is a bit of a way away from town, and is blocked by some varied terrain that might block some of the gases. To be flowing so fast, it would have to be on a steep slope in the mountains. Moreover, wind and water would dilute the gases quickly, and you'd flow out of danger before you'd taken too many breaths. Frankly, it still seems plausible that someone had released a large amount of poison gas and then quickly come in to clean away any evidence and ensure the 100% death count.
here's my view of the disaster. The men in green have obviously been around since the kidnapping of the minister's son, and most likely earlier. Using the quarry facilities to create hydrogen sulfide, they would probably be able to create a sufficient amount to complete their plan in time. Meanwhile several members of their group infiltrate the town, taking positions of respect, such as Irie (Onikakushi-hen) and Chie sensei (Tsumihoroboshi-hen).
Their purpose, among other things, is probably to find anyone who's seen too much and identify them to the men in green. I'd bet my right arm that one of those four knows the location of the missing right arm.
The hydrogen sulfide could be stored in tanks and placed in set locations. the men in green then, at the appointed time, break into the building shown at the end of ep4 in order to activate the releases on the tanks of hydrogen sulfide remotely. I'd assume that Rika was killed for a reason, but I have no idea why. I think I'm one of the few people that actually think that Irie did kill himself either out of remorse, or as a warning to try to stop the 'disaster'. there doesn't seem to be anything suspicious about the bodies in the classroom. it was probably used as an impromptu morgue for the bodies before they're sterilised and the poisonous chemicals are removed from the skin/clothes of the victims (after all, they wouldn't want to kill the doctors performing the autopsies. I still have no idea about the why, but I'm sure it'll be explained soon.
That's right, Oishi you came late and lost the only piece of evidence to unravel the perpetrators of Rika-chan's murder.
Yakusamashi-hen was definitely a parallel reinterpretation of both Tatarigoroshi-hen and Himatsubushi-hen somewhat.
But replacing Keiichi with Satoko as the main player, and Satoko with Rika as the victim from the former Hinamizawa to the latter Hinamizawa.
The change roles added a new layer of depth, as we were finally witness to the actions of the men in green.
Satoko in Yakusamashi-hen went through the same experience as Keiichi did in Tatarigoroshi-hen after finding her way out of the river and back to the village.
Save for important key details.
This is the first Hinamizawa chapter were absolutely no one went paranoid, that is no hearing mysterious footsteps and no distrust toward each other.
In this Hinamizawa, Satoko got her ideal life but collapsed with the arrival of the M.I.G.
Oishi's theory and Rika's message is all needed to finally let loose another knot of the mystery.
Like kj1980 explained since the first season, there are no supernatural forces at work. I am very convinced now and resolved that with the recent waves of hints that this chapter threw Rika's murder was done by human hands.
The M.I.G. killed her but for what purpose. However, let us notice that the knives they used resembled more surgery knives or even scalpels. Therefore, I speculate that they cut open Rika to extract something out of her body.
Now to the Hinamizawa disaster.
I am even more convinced that the M.I.G. had something to do with it either directly or indirectly.
Recall that in the previous episode, Kumagai happened to pass by as one of the M.I.G.s was unlocking a gate to a building's entrance, then got shot likely because he either saw the man carrying a gun or saw that the man was holding something else.
Oishi is positively assured that the volcanic gas leak was no accident, but intentionally perpetrated.
Now what if both incidents: Rika's murder and the Hinamizawa disaster were actually linked after all?
Just remember when Satoko gets struck with the epiphany of Rena's message. Rena likely witness something that she shouldn't at the wrong place and time, and ended up becoming an unfortunate target of the M.I.G.s
Oishi was also reported that other 20+ people went missing. I bet my savings that either those people attempted to escape out of the village as the presumed volcanic gas leak was taking place or a few by chance saw what the M.I.G. were doing.
And there's the last issue of the voice that was chatting with Rika. Who or what was it?
Whatever or whoever was I believe that it was the only witness to what really took place that unholy night? The bad news as Satoko pointed out is that no one can hear it but only Rika, and she's now done.... for that Hinamizawa.
Lastly, how was possible for Satoko to die from an acute heart failure?
1. Either she experienced a monstrous death fright or
2. Someone silenced her by injecting her with a poison that leaves no trace.
Remember that we saw a M.I.G. lurking around the hospital, and definitely the nurse who turned off the comunicator for Satoko's room is as well involved in their shit.
What piece of human shit would go that far to wipe out a peaceful village? Whoever is the mastermind he or she is the true monster.
StrayChild
2007-08-11, 15:49
Satoko was hardly living out her "ideal life", considering all that went on in that arc, and the absence of her brother. It could also be argued that she is the one who went paranoid in that chapter, though for good reason. She lost faith in her friends.
To say there are no supernatural forces at work is definately false, given that we at least know that June is repeating itself in some way. That kind of thing just doesn't happen naturally.
The murderer is most definately disturbed, but the reasons behind their actions-and who they are-remain a mystery to most of us. Throughout the first season, we saw how easilly and how quickly and innocent person could be driven to commit murder, through jealousy, anger, and even love. The murderer has wronged, but there is likely more to it than we realize.
FlareKnight
2007-08-11, 17:21
Well her life went as ideal as it can be considering this world. It's not like an ideal life overall but considering what happens generally in that place. Nothing really bad happened to her friends before their murder and there wasn't something incredibly bad that happened to Satoko before the disaster happened. No uncle coming back to abuse her or anything outside of the standard life she could have there. While certainly it isn't the best life that could ever happen to a person for her it was pretty ideal.
After all I don't think it's paranoia if your right :). Rika most likely didn't care since she'd given up on trying to do anything. She wasn't losing it since people really did come and she was murdered at the very end of it.
Of course we've got our supernatural forces with the repetition of June. But in terms of the murder of Rika and the killing of the villagers there wasn't some supernatural force that did that it was human beings. Only thing that keeps things from ending like that is the power to repeat that month.
I'm sure we'll find out just who is behind all of this soon. Hiring these guys to kill Rika and take down a village leaving no witnesses that can say anything about it. Going to be tough to deal with this since the enemy has quite a bit of power after all.
StrayChild
2007-08-11, 17:29
I think it's safe to say they only wanted no witnesses of the murder of Rika, since Rena was a witness to the gas disaster, more than likely, back in the last arc of the first season.
I think it's safe to say they only wanted no witnesses of the murder of Rika, since Rena was a witness to the gas disaster, more than likely, back in the last arc of the first season.
No, she was in a mental hospital. Delusory hostage taker after all.
Just noticed: During the TV info flash, they show the road block from above. And how the reporters have such images ? They fley over it by helicopter or what ? So why they didn't film inside Hinamizawa ? There were SAM batteries there too ?
Ok, ok, i am teasing here ;)
I've only watched the anime this far and it seems the ultimate objective of the conspirators/mastermind who commands those para-military janitor guys is to wipe out the village's residents. But there's still way too much cloudy stuff, of course there is, otherwise watching the rest of the series wouldn't be very interesting. Here's the main points I'm wondering about:
1) The poisoning of the village residents is clearly premeditated and carried out by some conspirators, it's not natural. Why massacre the village? It's not worth doing just for the dam project, that's for sure. The dam is just a plot device for other things. It could be to get rid of the mysterious disease/parasite that causes insanity...
2) The "janitors" that eviscerate Rika at the shrine must be in league with the poisoners, because they are also hunting down all survivors. What's the point in doing that to Rika right before they're going to massacre everyone anyways?
That was rather brilliant. Not only was the animation on top form for this episode, though finally we hear some new BGM's from Kawai --- upto now they've just been using stuff from the first series, so yay, new material which was very good.
Since the start of this season, i've been waiting for something awesome Keiichi related, and it delivered this episode. I hope Keiichi becomes more of a big layer for this arc, 'cause it does seem that way from this episode. Some of his shocked expressions about the setting arrangement were interesting, classic Higurashi.
Also, i love how easy it is to tell that Ryukishi07 was a part of this.
Note: Like the above post I made, this is also conjecture on the mastermind(s).
Well, we know it isn't Keiichi, and you're going on "square is a rectangle" logic here. The culprit has to have strong outside ties, because the MIGs come from outside (as established before here). Additionally, to want to wipe out the village, someone is probably looking at a bigger picture than just Hinamizawa itself; since Hinamizawa is so secluded, the villagers aren't likely to be thinking that way.
Consequently, the culprit is someone from outside. That narrows things down.
Now, Irie is pretty suspicious, and (IIRC) he's been associated with the MIGs before. Combine that with Takano's attitude and clearly-intentional manipulation and it's fully plausible that they're together in this conspiracy.
As for "who isn't suspicious"... well, look at it this way. Write up a list of characters, cross off the mains and the villagers, and you really don't have much left. In my experience it never happens that a mystery story has a culprit who isn't introduced as a "normal" character, because that leaves too little room for development and the culprit's motives.
So I'm pretty sure I'm right on this one, the question I have is more why, not who.
First it's pretty clear that the GHD is man made. Asumeing that the master mind is some one we have met lets look at the suspects
Kuraudo Oishi + Mamoru Akasaka: its pretty clear that they have no clue what caused th GHD.
Jiro Tomitake: Always found dead haveing torn his own neck out. Possable ex soilder (do to the dogtags he is always wearing) and friend of Miyo Takano. early acrs point to him not being who he claims.
Kyosuke Irie: Maid maniac, baseball manager, and local doctor. Has some conection with the MIG's in the first arc. in the arcs he dies in the GHD happens. Not enuff information if he dies in arcs where the GHD doesn't happen
Miyo Takano: Irie's very creepy nurse also always found dead but the body is burnt so bad that she is IDed by dental records. There apear to be some odities with the time of her death placeing it before the Watanagashi where she talks at least
Jiro Tomitake into breaking into the shrine.
Rumiko Chie: teacher. nothing out of place that we can see but does die in the GHD in this arc and most likely in the others as well. does not seem to have a connection to the MIG other then asking who they are.
Teppei Hojo: small time crook. GHD happens if he dies or lives. no known connections to the MIG's
Oryō Sonozaki: head of the Sonozaki's. Possable link to MiG's with kidnaping of the minister's son. Untimely death by Shion in arcs where there is no GHD, but was shown as a victim of GHD.
Kiichirō Kimiyoshi: Untimely death by Shion in arcs where there is no GHD, but was shown as a victim of GHD.
Sinestra
2007-08-13, 10:26
So many good theories floating around. I have been so obessed with thinking about possible outcomes i havent been able to concentrate on anything else for days. WHich is the reason why i love Higurashi so much not just another mindless anime this one makes you think. Im still sticking to the theory i posted a few pages back at least for now
OkamiNoKaze
2010-05-01, 01:38
Oh wow, quite the episode. It was really hard to make out what was happening in the first quarter or so of the episode, because it was so dark. Was this done in a way to sort of replicate the experience of the sound novels? Add in the subtitles and it kind of gives that effect I suppose. Alot of questions were answered, holes were filled in, but again more questions were raised, After reading what you people think, I'm still trying to formulate my own theories with this episode.
Here are a couple I came up with though,
I think Rika was killed because they believed the hype around her, that she could see the foretell the future, and would be able to warn the people of the coming disaster, and Irie was killed because He might know how to stop the treat whatever bio-attack it is they had planned.
Well, it was a well made episode, but I am getting tired of people suffering all the time.
It becoming more and more common in Higurashi that many characters will suffer immensly. The experiences Sototko has lived through during her short life is just staggering. One torment after an other. Just feels meaningless :upset:
Also there seems so many swines who are part of whatever conspiracy that is going on. That nurse is just such a bitch it's hard to describe.
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