Romance in Code Geass (Take 2)

[Var]

On what basis are you making such claim ? The way i see it is Shirley being the second one most likely (which is very unlikely in itself), with CC being on top (which is likely to in tragedy anyway). Kallen and Lelouch are not close at all. I don't think Kallen even passes the "friend" threshold with him, never mind an important friend. An important pawn she is indeed though. And while she might be in middle between being a friend and a pawn, i don't think she can ever fully graduate from being the later. Not while she is in the order and fighting for Lulu's ambitions. They might be fighting for the same cause (Or not if we bring Lulu's true goals in to equation), but they are not standing on the same spot. They are pretty far apart.

I'm going to have to kindly disagree that he doesn't consider Kallen a friend, and say she is one of his closest friends/accomplices. I'd also argue she fully graduated from pawn when she learned the truth and has her own leaverage over Lelouch. But we'll leave it at 'I disagree' so that we don't spawn another long little discussion. :p

There's nothing unnatural about it actually. She is his partner and he discovered she has had a horrible past that he can sympathize with. He never hated her, though he did get angry first season. The majority of the interactions were either just business talk, them bantering, or the little sweet moments where C.C. lost her mask for a little while.

Lord Elrond, Master of Rivendell would like to have a talk with you. I wonder if we saw C.C. lose her mask more with Mao or Lelouch. I may be inclined to lean towards the former.


C.C. doesn't have a split personality. The general one is something like a mask she developed to allow her to continue on as well as protecting her from her real emotions getting in the way. The vulnerable part is something akin to her true seld, but she has been hurt enough times to hide that side since it could endanger the contract. Had the whole cave thing never happened, we may never have seen the other side. It's sort of how Lelouch acts like a jerk a lot of the time, but he actually cares. C.C. has just been doing it for a whole lot longer.

She has a split identity, not personality. She has the C2 identity, that which she has become, and the unknown name identity, that which she was. We have no idea which is her trueself, as she herself no longer knows. So its foolish to say that either side is her true self. If anything, both sides are part of the whole. From there its a question which is more prevelant. So far, we know her cold exterior is her more prevelant trait.

Had the cave scene never happened we'd have seen it with Mao.

Also, Lelouch and C.C. have a very large disparity in personalities. Lelouch puts all blame on himself, always, he is selfless. C.C. is to a very large degree selfish. We may be able to call the persona Zero a more selfish figure, but that mask was shreded in 25.

People who are also selfless to some degree, not in any particular order:

Urabe (may he RIP)
Todou
Ougi (depends on developments with Villetta)
Guilford (does everything for his Princess)
Euphemia
Kallen
Milly



I think that was more of an afterthought or joke. We know it doesn't mean anything.

That could be said about any of the pairings in this show actually. That sounds just as much like LelouchXKallen as any other pairing. SuzakuXKallen seems like the ultimate example though.

Did they even sleep in the same bed? Lelouch slept on the sofa did he not?

You can say anything about everything, I could start advocating for NinaxTable by that logic. While personal opinion does skew decisions, there are somethings that are just incomparable. KallenxSuzaku, for example, is something that would require a major f-up in writing, see GSEEDDestiny. KallenxLelouch, on the other hand is not nearly as farfetched. You have pairings that are within the realm of possibility with minimal suspension of disbelief, but then there are some that require you to throw disbelief into Mt.Doom with the Ring of Power and Gollem.

Li did, but he is going to be developed, no question about that.

Don't know byt we can guess, I dont think she was ever queen of Brittania, Queen of Britian, ie the UK we know today in that universe I think. Brittania is a succesor state to Britian we know.

I think she could have been based on Morgan Le Fay..... V.V strikes me as Merlin.... if anything at all.

Also with regards to the family tree - if C.C was Elizabeth (for sake of arguement), then Lelouch would not be descended form her. She was the last of the Tudor line, Brittania was adopted by the next highest ranking nobel family and proclaimed themselves Emperor.

Li has already been developed more than most characters.

If V.V. is Merlin then V.V. would be the 'good-guy', while C.C. would be the traitor and indirect killer of the king. We'll just have to wait and see, or take it to the correct thread.

Due to how much intermarriage and marriage between royals existed in Britain in our world, there is a still a good chance for C.C. to be blood related to Lelouch if she turned out to be Elizabeth III. It may not be a direct descendant from her own lineage, but her blood-line could very well be fractionally present.

[Skyfall]

I'm going to have to kindly disagree that he doesn't consider Kallen a friend, and say she is one of his closest friends/accomplices. I'd also argue she fully graduated from pawn when she learned the truth and has her own leaverage over Lelouch. But we'll leave it at 'I disagree' so that we don't spawn another long little discussion. :p

Accomplice and friend are two different things. I would be hesitant about calling CC a true friend of his either, but its closer than Kallen i believe. Their relationship might have a degree of familiarity, but lacks intimacy. trust ? Yes. Respect ? Most likely. Intimacy beyond the battlefield? No ... and thats why i can't see her as his friend. She may well be his right hand as far as regular order members are concerned, but she is no friend to him.

Rivalz, Millay, Shirley - those would be Lelouch's friends. And that is something i don't see Kallen being. And i don't think she can be ... not with Lelouch's personality and goals, her devotion and being a subordinate of his.

I wonder if its worth starting to look for giant meteors heading for earth if we happen to agree on something :p (besides agreeing to disagree)

[Var]

Accomplice and friend are two different things. I would be hesitant about calling CC a true friend of his either, but its closer than Kallen i believe. Their relationship might have a degree of familiarity, but lacks intimacy. trust ? Yes. Respect ? Most likely. Intimacy beyond the battlefield? No ... and thats why i can't see her as his friend. She may well be his right hand as far as regular order members are concerned, but she is no friend to him.

Well, I'll agree with you if we apply the same conditions to C.C., though I'd probably still argue that he'd call Kallen a friend. If not for the simple fact that he teases her more than anyone else. Though here we're just delving into personal opinion, so I'll bite my tongue. :p


Rivalz, Millay, Shirley - those would be Lelouch's friends. And that is something i don't see Kallen being. And i don't think she can be ... not with Lelouch's personality and goals, her devotion and being a subordinate of his.

Nina is also his friend. The way I saw the developments with the Student Council, and her inclusion into it, was an allusion to her getting closer with everyone. Lelouch, Milly, Shirley, Rivalz, Suzaku, Nunally, Nina, everyone. Becoming friends with everyone, as she said herself, even Lelouch. A sort of reversal to Lelouch's situation with the council and the OoBK.

There are also scenes I could call up for Lelouch being a friend to Kallen, but they've been brought up a bagillion times and each scene falls under interpretation. So, we'll agree to disagree! :p


I wonder if its worth starting to look for giant meteors heading for earth if we happen to agree on something :p (besides agreeing to disagree)

I agree.... Uh oh. *runs* ;)

[evil|plushie]

I don't think Skyfalls arguing about Kallen NOT being a friend -_- Rather that friendship/accompliceship etc, C.C is closer than Kallen is to Lelouch.

[Blue_Mercy]

Accomplice and friend are two different things. I would be hesitant about calling CC a true friend of his either, but its closer than Kallen i believe. Their relationship might have a degree of familiarity, but lacks intimacy. trust ? Yes. Respect ? Most likely. Intimacy beyond the battlefield? No ... and thats why i can't see her as his friend. She may well be his right hand as far as regular order members are concerned, but she is no friend to him.

Rivalz, Millay, Shirley - those would be Lelouch's friends. And that is something i don't see Kallen being. And i don't think she can be ... not with Lelouch's personality and goals, her devotion and being a subordinate of his.

I wonder if its worth starting to look for giant meteors heading for earth if we happen to agree on something :p (besides agreeing to disagree)

Have to get in on this conversation because I take that line Intimacy beyond the battlefield and I say Yes instead of no. Kallen has become like C.C. in that she knows what Lelouch is really like yet still chooses to be with him and the romantic/embarrasing moments of Episode 2 are just the start of that.

[Tsukiyomi]

i think lelouch and kallen have a master and slave relationship =p

[Var]

I don't think Skyfalls arguing about Kallen NOT being a friend -_- Rather that friendship/accompliceship etc, C.C is closer than Kallen is to Lelouch.

Then I am baffled and I owe Sky a 'gomen' for my mistake. :p

But I'm pretty sure we're discussing the idea of a true friend or not.

[KrimzonStriker]

Woot, Var admits a mistake!! :heh:

[Strettger]

Woot, Var admits a mistake!! :heh:Current status of sky : Not falling.

[Skyfall]

Actually i am arguing both to a degree :p I won't descend in to argument who is closer to him as a friend - CC or Kallen, because i consider neither of the two a true friend of his. Accomplices ... heck, important ones. Closer than most. But not a friend. CC probably stand on more even ground than Kallen with Lulu, but i don't think either of them passes the friend threshold, however close they might be.

@ Var - i chose to ignore Nina for my own sanity :p (Would he still consider her a friend now that she's on enemy side ? I don't know)

Have to get in on this conversation because I take that line Intimacy beyond the battlefield and I say Yes instead of no. Kallen has become like C.C. in that she knows what Lelouch is really like yet still chooses to be with him and the romantic/embarrasing moments of Episode 2 are just the start of that.

She still knows very little about him and has no real idea what makes him tick. She knows the face behind the mask, but to a degree that is a mask itself she has yet to see through. Just because she knows Zero = Lulu doesn't bring any deep enlightenment about Lulu on its own.

[Var]

Woot, Var admits a mistake!! :heh:

Turns out, not so much.


@ Var - i chose to ignore Nina for my own sanity :p (Would he still consider her a friend now that she's on enemy side ? I don't know)

I guessed as much, so I threw her in for chuckles. :p (Where's my cackling emoticon?)


She still knows very little about him and has no real idea what makes him tick. She knows the face behind the mask, but to a degree that is a mask itself she has yet to see through.

She doesn't? From the looks of it, and the information that's been divulged to her over the course of the year, I'd say the opposite. She knows its for Nunally, she knows the means, and she knows his objective of destroying Britannia. The only thing she doesn't know is about his mother.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Have to get in on this conversation because I take that line Intimacy beyond the battlefield and I say Yes instead of no. Kallen has become like C.C. in that she knows what Lelouch is really like yet still chooses to be with him and the romantic/embarrasing moments of Episode 2 are just the start of that.


I'm not so sure about that though.

Like Skyfall said, she still doesn't know enough.

For starters, he's not just a student, he's also a Prince...



She doesn't? From the looks of it, and the information that's been divulged to her over the course of the year, I'd say the opposite. She knows its for Nunally, she knows the means, and she knows his objective of destroying Britannia. The only thing she doesn't know is about his mother.

From that scene in episode 2, all that was mention was his Geass and his identity as a student.

[Skyfall]

(Where's my cackling emoticon?)

Find one, upload it to the usual image sharing servers and link to it using [img] tags in your post :p


She doesn't? From the looks of it, and the information that's been divulged to her over the course of the year, I'd say the opposite. She knows its for Nunally, she knows the means, and she knows his objective of destroying Britannia. The only thing she doesn't know is about his mother.

Yes, she knows some - but all she knows is some major guidelines of his motivations, not his true persona. I don't think she knows about his ties to the royal family, about him wanting to avenge his mother, nor how deeply affected he actually is by any of those. Granted she has the possibility to learn more of the true Lelouch, but at the moment she knows the bare surface of him.

[KrimzonStriker]

Turns out, not so much.

Always have to take the fun out of the moment. :rolleyes:

I'll still woot anyway :D

[Var]

From that scene in episode 2, all that was mention was his Geass and his identity as a student.

And Geass is a pretty big thing. If she's been told about something as major as that, who's to say she hasn't been told more? Either way, she's already learned very important things about him.

Find one, upload it to the usual image sharing servers and link to it using [img] tags in your post :p

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-018.gif


Yes, she knows some - but all she knows is some major guidelines of his motivations, not his true persona. I don't think she knows about his ties to the royal family, about him wanting to avenge his mother, nor how deeply affected he actually is by any of those. Granted she has the possibility to learn more of the true Lelouch, but at the moment she knows the bare surface of him.

Major guidelines is far better than what most anyone else knows. She's also seen a good bit into his persona in Season 1, whether or not she's pieced it together is yet to be seen but she has been privy to his real persona.

As for the rest, we've got a starting point. The pieces of the puzzle will eventually fall into place. :p

[Narona]

Thanks to Koshimizu :kisskiss:, here's the discussion between Shirley and Lulu at the start of the forbidden video <_<.

Lelouch thinking: When all of this is over, I will definately... you.
(Shirley interrupted before he finish the sentence) (make up to you, maybe?)

Shirley: What is it?
Lelouch: Kaichou and the others are stalking on us.
Shirley: You're kidding!
Lelouch: Shirley. I have a good idea.
Maybe Shirley has a chance with him after all :D.

[KrimzonStriker]

Regret and love are two different things Narona >_>

[Narona]

Regret and love are two different things Narona >_>
Yeah... :heh:.

Anyway, I want a Lelouch x C.C. ending but shirley is too cute in this episode.

[KrimzonStriker]

Me wonders if that note from Season 1 will ever make an appearance :confused:

[Chaos2Frozen]

Yeah... :heh:.

Anyway, I want a Lelouch x C.C. ending but shirley is too cute in this episode.

Yeah, I know how you feel... Sadly, we can't have everything... :sad:


... Oh can we :thinker: ?

[Narona]

... Oh can we :thinker: ?
Polygamy? :heh:

[Chaos2Frozen]

Polygamy? :heh:

Hey I alway like this image :p



http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/731/minitokyovectorartcodegbk9.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5199/minitokyovectorartcodegwi8.jpg)



Best happy-end scenario :nod:

[KrimzonStriker]

Not going to happen >_>

[Narona]

Hey I alway like this image :p

Best happy-end scenario :nod:

omg :heh: .

Seriously, I wonder what the fans reaction will be if he ends up with Shirley :D.

[KrimzonStriker]

omg :heh: .

Seriously, I wonder what the fans reaction will be if he ends up with Shirley :D.



<_<

Pitch forks, torches, along with tar and feathers if we're going by just me >_>



What? :heh:

[Narona]

Not going to happen >_>

<_< At least, he will not end up with an eunuch :heh:

[KrimzonStriker]

Now that's a blessing I think people fail to appreciate enough :p

[Narona]

What? :heh:

Dann's pessimism has infected you :uhoh:.

Don't break Chaos2Frozen's dream that easily :heh:

[KrimzonStriker]

That's not pessimism, it's sadism ;)

[Chaos2Frozen]

Not going to happen >_>


Probably...

... Or maybe... :heh: !

omg :heh: .

Seriously, I wonder what the fans reaction will be if he ends up with Shirley :D.

I for one, welcome our new pairing overlord-


Dann's pessimism has infected you :uhoh:.

Don't break Chaos2Frozen's dream that easily :heh:


Hey, you like the idea as much as I do :p


That's not pessimism, it's sadism ;)

Evil... >.>

B-But, everybody would be happy that way!

(:heh:)

[serenade_beta]

Seriously, I wonder what the fans reaction will be if he ends up with Shirley :D.

I'd be happy. And think back to all of the people that thought it was impossible. :)
Looking forward to ep3, and the Shirley/Lelouch moments.

Apparently there was a leak... kind of annoyed, but at least it was deleted. Missed it anyways. :p

[KrimzonStriker]

Probably...

... Or maybe... :heh: !

Let me rephrase that, not going to happen, ever! ;)


Evil... >.>

B-But, everybody would be happy that way!

(:heh:)

Thank you :p

I'll lose all respect I had for C.C, Kallen, heck even Shirely if it did. So count me out of your happy group >_>

[Chaos2Frozen]

^

Underdog Kaguya then :p

[Ruvixur]

Uhhh...but it is possible, if Shirley will be able to understand why Lelouch is Zero ( i bet she will find out that ) and C.C. will die ( dont want that) and Kallen will find another boy/stay alone .
Though, i want LelouchxC.C + Shirley being on very good terms ( maybe becoming mistress +) with them =)
She is just too cute in 3rd episode:heh::heh::heh:

[KrimzonStriker]

Cute don't cut it in Lelouch's world, she was downright pathetic when she tried to step in it last time >_>

[Ruvixur]

Come on, give girl another chance...maybe she will die doing that, so there will be no luluxshirley for you...damn pessimists/realists

[Deathscyther]

I agree that Shirley still has a small chance of happening. At this point, I'd say that she's on par with Kallen and that C.C is in the lead. I think that we'll get lots of Kallen x Lelouch moments this season though, so I don't think we'll see much of Shirley later on (maybe she will get some scenes in the beginning of the season)

But I'll be frank. I don't like Shirley and I don't like her together with Lelouch. Somehow I find her the most boring character of the whole series. I don't find her cute at all as well:heh:

[Narona]

Hey, you like the idea as much as I do :p


:D .

I'd be happy. And think back to all of the people that thought it was impossible.
Looking forward to ep3, and the Shirley/Lelouch moments.
I wasn't a fan of the Shirley X Lelouch pairing, but I can change my mind <3


That's not pessimism, it's sadism

dann's pessimism, Krimzon's sadism, Dom33's masochism ... :heh:




Evil... >.>

(:heh:)
No, the evil guy here is Var.

J/k :p

[KrimzonStriker]

Joking on the square you mean ;)

[WarzoneCommand]

But I'll be frank. I don't like Shirley and I don't like her together with Lelouch. Somehow I find her the most boring character of the whole series. I don't find her cute at all as well:heh:

Well that's probably since the only 'special' thing she has/had is/was her stalkerish love for Lelouche. Appart from that we haven't seen much of her. She might have been a more interesting character if she had a more older-sister like attitude to hide her feelings (Meaning she would be a lot more persistent nagging him about whatever he was doing/not doing). But I guess for that to happen there was way too less (in school)time reserved for such things.

Anyway: I think the best person for Lelouche to end up with would be Kallen; I think she is the most normal person who still might understand some of his actions; If he'll hang out with CC too much he'll end up losing it and becoming (an even bigger) massmurdering-maniac ;)

[Narona]

Anyway: I think the best person for Lelouche to end up with would be Kallen; I think she is the most normal person who still might understand some of his actions; If he'll hang out with CC too much he'll end up losing it and becoming (an even bigger) massmurdering-maniac ;)
You know, Lelouch could also find peace with a girl who's not a warrior or an immortal witch. Precisely because Shirley is just a normal girl.

[KrimzonStriker]

What's wrong with being a mass-murdering maniac? :heh:

[Juvyniled]

What's wrong with being a mass-murdering maniac? :heh:

I certainly hope that's sarcasm.

[KrimzonStriker]

I certainly hope that's sarcasm.

Well now, if you really must know... ;)

:joke:

Seriously, I don't see why we have to be all negative about LelouchXC.C, lord knows Dann does enough of that :rolleyes:

[Var]

No, the evil guy here is Var.


Fixed it for you. :p

You know, Lelouch could also find peace with a girl who's not a warrior or an immortal witch. Precisely because Shirley is just a normal girl.

The problem there is that no such person exists in the show. The closest we have is Milly, but unless she does something, its not going to happen. Shirley is more a stalker/supercrush than love. Understandably, that can change but as of now it hasn't and there's only so much time for it too happen.

When did I become synonymous with the incarnation of evil, anyway? :heh:

I certainly hope that's sarcasm.

As do I.


Seriously, I don't see why we have to be all negative about LelouchXC.C, lord knows Dann does enough of that :rolleyes:

I tend to refer to Lord Elrond, Master of Rivendell as to why. :p

[Narona]

What's wrong with being a mass-murdering maniac? :heh:

Well, We might think that because shirley is just a normal girl, she should be a good housewife.

But Viletta/chigusa doesn't approve this theory :heh: .

Seriously, he might want to have a normal wife. Even if I suppose that most men would love to have an energic girl in bunny's outfit in their beds <_<.

[KrimzonStriker]

Well, We might think that because shirley is just a normal girl, she should be a good housewife.

But Viletta/chigusa doesn't approve this theory :heh: .

Seriously, he might want to have a normal wife. Even if I suppose that most men would love to have an energic girl in bunny's outfit in their beds <_<.

What, you didn't know? Lelouch is the best housewife there is ;)

A waste of Shirely's potential, if you want to squeeze everything out of Lelouch you get a loafer like C.C as his spouse :p

[Var]

A waste of Shirely's potential, if you want to squeeze everything out of Lelouch you get a loafer like C.C as his spouse :p

Refrain episode: Kallen's just as messy. :p

[KrimzonStriker]

Noooooo, she's a workaholic who has maids, and that's a waste of Lelouch's potential now >_>

[Skyfall]

I tend to refer to Lord Elrond, Master of Rivendell as to why. :p

And i will once again point out that anime generally doesn't concern itself with the issue, as it is almost never the main obstacle in human x "immortal" romances ;)

[Var]

And i will once again point out that anime generally doesn't concern itself with the issue, as it is almost never the main obstacle in human x "immortal" romances ;)

Pash, I can hope for a story that takes into account the issues. Until that time, I will wade through everything else that popped out of Pandora's Box. :p

But anyway, refering to Lord Elrond is so much fun. I mean, he is the Master of Rivendell. ;)

[Narona]

When did I become synonymous with the incarnation of evil, anyway? :heh:


http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1506226#post1506226

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1507914&postcount=5169

:heh:

What, you didn't know? Lelouch is the best housewife there is

I forgot about that XD

[Dann of Thursday]

Speak of the devil, KS

That conversation and line from episode 3 is quite telling.

One thing that could happen is this: LelouchXKallen doesn’t happen as Kallen is in love with Zero but not with Lelouch and is able to remain as friends. LelouchXC.C. may develop somewhat, but not in any truly meaningful way and in the end C.C. goes off somewhere or dies or something. Point is that he won’t be seeing her again. Lelouch takes care of everything then goes back to Shirley and stays with her, Nunnally too, and then we get some happy ending with those three.

Another is that Shirley could rediscover Lelouch is Zero and relieve Lelouch’s guilt over what happened and that he doesn’t owe her anything for it. She could forgive him for it and not hold it against him. After that everything is pretty much up in the air. Then they could go any way they want though if LelouchXC.C. started happening and they were separated in the end, he’d go back to Shirley.

Actually, with the exception of the fact that Shirley is not all that involved with Lelouch’s life outside of school and knows nothing really of his personality, she has the best case for someone romantically. Perhaps those few strikes against her aren’t going to matter in the end and they will still end up together. I think it would feel rather forced with Lelouch’s personality and all, but my opinion matters little to what the director decides to do.

And thinking on things, Shirley would probably provide the healthiest relationship in comparison to the other girls. She may have the highest chance after all. Taniguchi has had girls like her be the ones who ended up with the main character in the end after all so it probably should have been evident.

And Taniguchi is Tolkein so I doubt it matters.

[KrimzonStriker]

Speak of the devil, KS

That conversation and line from episode 3 is quite telling.

One thing that could happen is this: LelouchXKallen doesn’t happen as Kallen is in love with Zero but not with Lelouch and is able to remain as friends. LelouchXC.C. may develop somewhat, but not in any truly meaningful way and in the end C.C. goes off somewhere or dies or something. Point is that he won’t be seeing her again. Lelouch takes care of everything then goes back to Shirley and stays with her, Nunnally too, and then we get some happy ending with those three.

Another is that Shirley could rediscover Lelouch is Zero and relieve Lelouch’s guilt over what happened and that he doesn’t owe her anything for it. She could forgive him for it and not hold it against him. After that everything is pretty much up in the air. Then they could go any way they want though if LelouchXC.C. started happening and they were separated in the end, he’d go back to Shirley.

Actually, with the exception of the fact that Shirley is not all that involved with Lelouch’s life outside of school and knows nothing really of his personality, she has the best case for someone romantically. Perhaps those few strikes against her aren’t going to matter in the end and they will still end up together. I think it would feel rather forced with Lelouch’s personality and all, but my opinion matters little to what the director decides to do.

And thinking on things, Shirley would probably provide the healthiest relationship in comparison to the other girls. She may have the highest chance after all. Taniguchi has had girls like her be the ones who ended up with the main character in the end after all so it probably should have been evident.

And Taniguchi is Tolkein so I doubt it matters.

What did I do Dann? :heh:

Oh don't make me bring up all the negatives with Shirely Dann. She couldn't handle all the aspects of Lelouch as Zero even worse then Kallen did for Zero as Lelouch. She's about as relevant to the story as... well there is a reason she, Milley, and Rivalz hang out together in this series >_> It'd take away the meaning of her little spazz during Episode 14, there are far more involved and indepth women in Lelouch's life then Shirely etc... And when has that type of girl been regulated to side character in Tanaguchi's works before? :confused:

[Juvyniled]

I suspect that the fanbase for a relationship between Kallen and Lelouch would be smaller if Kallen were merely average looking (Was it necessary to have Kallen's bust size as large as it is? Yes. -_-). Not that I can complain about Kallen's character, as it is quite aesthetically drawn....

[Fenrir_valindri]

Same could be said about C.C. 's relationship with Lelouch, not like C.C. isn't packing either. :heh:

[KrimzonStriker]

C.C has the widest hip ratio out of all the girls in the series apparently. And at just the right proportions too ;)

[Cleaver-Girl]

I'm voting for LuluXC.C. because they fit so perfectly and C.C. is the only one that truly understands him^^
I'm not a big fan of Kallen because the only thing that's really interesting about her is her chest....that's about it :\ C.C. is an immortal witch , that beats everything.Suzaku can have Bust Girl for all I care(sorry Kallen fans don't hate me:heh:)

[Reiji Tabibito]

Hello, GEASS THREAD!

My name is Reiji Tabibito, and I am a newcomer here...kinda.

Anyway, on with the posting.

Oh, and:

ALL HAIL Britannia ME!!!

:joke:

Yeah, I know how you feel... Sadly, we can't have everything... :sad:


... Oh can we :thinker: ?


There's no law that prevents one from having their cake, pie, breakfast pastry, and novelty pizza and eating it TOO!


Hey I alway like this image :p



http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/731/minitokyovectorartcodegbk9.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/5199/minitokyovectorartcodegwi8.jpg)



Best happy-end scenario :nod:


2nd best, in my opinion...Lulu/Nunnally is EWWW....

omg :heh: .

Seriously, I wonder what the fans reaction will be if he ends up with Shirley :D.

For this fan, it will be HELL YES!!!!


I for one, welcome our new pairing overlord-


I'd be happy. And think back to all of the people that thought it was impossible. :)
Looking forward to ep3, and the Shirley/Lelouch moments.


SECONDED!!!!


I agree that Shirley still has a small chance of happening. At this point, I'd say that she's on par with Kallen and that C.C is in the lead. I think that we'll get lots of Kallen x Lelouch moments this season though, so I don't think we'll see much of Shirley later on (maybe she will get some scenes in the beginning of the season)

But I'll be frank. I don't like Shirley and I don't like her together with Lelouch. Somehow I find her the most boring character of the whole series. I don't find her cute at all as well:heh:

CC may be in the lead, but there's no indication whatsoever that Lulu even LIKES CC - whereas with Shirley, we have an admission from Le Douche himself.

You know, Lelouch could also find peace with a girl who's not a warrior or an immortal witch. Precisely because Shirley is just a normal girl.

QFT. Lulu needs a NORMAL GIRL, DAMMIT!


When did I become synonymous with the incarnation of evil, anyway? :heh:


Long before I got here, obviously...


That conversation and line from episode 3 is quite telling.

One thing that could happen is this: LelouchXKallen doesn’t happen as Kallen is in love with Zero but not with Lelouch and is able to remain as friends. LelouchXC.C. may develop somewhat, but not in any truly meaningful way and in the end C.C. goes off somewhere or dies or something. Point is that he won’t be seeing her again. Lelouch takes care of everything then goes back to Shirley and stays with her, Nunnally too, and then we get some happy ending with those three.

Another is that Shirley could rediscover Lelouch is Zero and relieve Lelouch’s guilt over what happened and that he doesn’t owe her anything for it. She could forgive him for it and not hold it against him. After that everything is pretty much up in the air. Then they could go any way they want though if LelouchXC.C. started happening and they were separated in the end, he’d go back to Shirley.

Actually, with the exception of the fact that Shirley is not all that involved with Lelouch’s life outside of school and knows nothing really of his personality, she has the best case for someone romantically. Perhaps those few strikes against her aren’t going to matter in the end and they will still end up together. I think it would feel rather forced with Lelouch’s personality and all, but my opinion matters little to what the director decides to do.

And thinking on things, Shirley would probably provide the healthiest relationship in comparison to the other girls. She may have the highest chance after all. Taniguchi has had girls like her be the ones who ended up with the main character in the end after all so it probably should have been evident.

And Taniguchi is Tolkein so I doubt it matters.

QFT. If this happened, I could die happy, despite being a...not gonna say.

C.C has the widest hip ratio out of all the girls in the series apparently. And at just the right proportions too ;)

Why do you think they call her "Pizza Butt"?



And yes, Geass fans, if you couldn't tell, I am a Lulu/Shirley shipper.

...but not so much that I'd rabidly attack anyone else.

[KrimzonStriker]

Do you have any reason to actually think your pairing will happen? Nice colleague of quotes BTW :heh:

[Reiji Tabibito]

Do you have any reason to actually think your pairing will happen? Nice colleague of quotes BTW :heh:


Thanks!


And allow me to answer YOUR question with 2 OTHER questions.


Do you have any reason to think it WON'T happen?

-And-

Do you have any reason to think ANOTHER pairing will happen?

[KrimzonStriker]

Thanks!


And allow me to answer YOUR question with 2 OTHER questions.


Do you have any reason to think it WON'T happen?

-And-

Do you have any reason to think ANOTHER pairing will happen?


Yes to all of the above. Now, be so kind as to go first ;)

[DJ_RockmanX]

Oh great. A Cadian. That's all this thread needed. :rolleyes:

[Nilie]

Do you have any reason to actually think your pairing will happen? Nice colleague of quotes BTW :heh:
:stupid:
Indeed, I mean, I do think Lelouch seems to like Shirley most out of all the girls in his harem but ... I just somehow find the thought of him ending up with Shirley very hard to stomach. To me, his interactions with her seem to be another way of exploring his character, he would have loved a girl like Shirley, a classmate, a friend, a girl who's had a serious crush on him and loved him and who's sacrificed quite a bit for him even though she was hurt by him. One who would have really made him happy, 'cause in the end, he's a freaking NORMAL boy somewhere DEEP DEEP down inside! And Shirley would seem like a more natural/normal choice for a teen boy than a green haired mysterious freak of a witch or a double-life leading half Britannian half Japanese suicidal fanatical monstrously strong red head. Any day.

But despite that, ShirleyxLelouch just would feel sooo WRONG an ending. I dunno why. It's just despicable after all that's happened so far to think that he would go back to the very beginning like it all didn't stain him.

[Dann of Thursday]

What did I do Dann? :heh:

Oh don't make me bring up all the negatives with Shirely Dann. She couldn't handle all the aspects of Lelouch as Zero even worse then Kallen did for Zero as Lelouch. She's about as relevant to the story as... well there is a reason she, Milley, and Rivalz hang out together in this series >_> It'd take away the meaning of her little spazz during Episode 14, there are far more involved and indepth women in Lelouch's life then Shirely etc... And when has that type of girl been regulated to side character in Tanaguchi's works before? :confused:

You mentioned earlier about me being pessimistic enough. That was all.

I know all the negatives. I'm just looking at the possibility that they may not matter in the end since this isn't a romance show where factors like that matter all that much.

I'm sort of speaking of Ai, Aoi, and Mimori. All of those weren't characters he created though and were sort of more important.

I noticed that each girl got something in the first three episodes. C.C. in episode 1 (which was more business than anything though she was using that gentle tone you don't hear to often), Kallen in episode 2 (more dealing with her trust issues and only really confirmed that she loved Zero, not Lelouch), and Shirley in episode 3 (don't really know enough yet, but the date seems to have been primarily for getting rid of his tail and confronting Rollo). Episode 4 probably won't deal with any of them and will be just story and episode 5 will feature all three of them.

I suspect that the fanbase for a relationship between Kallen and Lelouch would be smaller if Kallen were merely average looking (Was it necessary to have Kallen's bust size as large as it is? Yes. -_-). Not that I can complain about Kallen's character, as it is quite aesthetically drawn....

This is part of the reason I never took the pairing seriously a while back when the series was airing since I thought they were just trying put the hot girl with the main character. Not that C.C. and Shirley aren't pretty as well though.

[SIZE="6"]
CC may be in the lead, but there's no indication whatsoever that Lulu even LIKES CC - whereas with Shirley, we have an admission from Le Douche himself.

QFT. Lulu needs a NORMAL GIRL, DAMMIT!


QFT. If this happened, I could die happy, despite being a...not gonna say.


We have no such admission. I never heard him actually say he loved her. He said she was important as are several other people. The thing I have a problem with is that quite a lot of this pairing seems that it would be based around Lelouch's guilt over what he did. That isn't a good relationship really.

What makes you think that?

Don't say QFT, unless it actually has enough support. I was merely listing possible scenarios and such. Doesn't mean anything is actually going to happen.

Thanks!


And allow me to answer YOUR question with 2 OTHER questions.


Do you have any reason to think it WON'T happen?

-And-

Do you have any reason to think ANOTHER pairing will happen?

Yes. She couldn't handle the real Lelouch at all, which is something I would think would be important. I see no indication she could handle the fact that he is Zero when she couldn't do it before.

This has been discussed to death and I am not going to go into it.

Please don't be overzealous. It's incredibly irritating unless you actually contribute something instead of just agreeing with everyone.

[Reiji Tabibito]

Yes to all of the above. Now, be so kind as to go first ;)

Very well...but you've probably heard most of these before.

If I understand the Geass crash course I've taken, there are 3 primary shippings for Lulu:

Lulu/CC

Lulu/Karen

Lulu/Shirley

(Let's NOT go into Yaoi territory, 'kay? 'Kay.)

Now, I am perfectly willing to admit to the fact that for these 3 shippings, Shirley is behind the other two girls in screentime with Lulu.

HOW-ever...

I contend that romantically, Shirley has a LEAD on the other two girls.

First, we have a confession from Lulu himself (ep. 14) that he may like Shirley...and we DEFINITELY know that she likes him. Whereas with the other two girls, we have NO IDEA if they even LIKE him - especially CC, who seems to be the fan favorite right now.

Plus, you saw the leaked part of Ep. 3, yes?

Second, we know that, for the most part, Karen has feelings towards Zero, not Lulu. This is evident by her own behavior in which she is HIGHLY duplicitous towards Zero and Lulu - she treats them, two aspects of the same person, in COMPLETELY opposite ways. Plus, if Lulu/Karen were to happen, it'd be a Dating the Boss scenario - which doesn't end well 9/10 times.

Third, Lulu himself has (indirectly) denied any sort of romantic attraction towards CC. "We are partners." NOT taken out of context, or anything like that. Furthermore, Lulu has (on more than one occasion) expressed exasperation with CC - not exactly a prime way to start a relationship.

Plus, CC is immortal - how much would it suck to be in love with someone who you know will die one day, while you stay young? Even if Lulu feels that way, I do not believe CC will reciprocate, for the simple reason of avoiding heartbreak.


That satisfactory?

Oh great. A Cadian. That's all this thread needed. :rolleyes:


...and just what is THAT supposed to mean?

@ Skyfall's last comment: Ain't that the truth. All we really have is "I'm going to destroy Britannia!"


And then what? Bake a pie? :D

[Skyfall]

But despite that, ShirleyxLelouch just would feel sooo WRONG an ending. I dunno why. It's just despicable after all that's happened so far to think that he would go back to the very beginning like it all didn't stain him.

Not at all! Going back to "normal" as if it all didn't stain him? If he does go back to a normal life, its exactly because he is stained ... thats what he is fighting for after all - a better place of a world. If he would go back to normal life and "back" to Shirley it would come together with all his past baggage, him having been responsible for the events where her father lost life, her acknowledging the fact and both of them coming to terms with it. Actually the later is likely to happen one way or another even without romance involved.

He wouldn't go back to the beginning like a clean slate (And neither would Shirley), but he would turn a new page indeed.


What he plans to do after all of this is pretty much up in the air though.

[DJ_RockmanX]

...and just what is THAT supposed to mean?

I've had run ins with you guys in the recent past (see backlog of the link in my sig). You're an interesting bunch, to say the least. The guys around here are really gonna have fun now. :heh:

[Dann of Thursday]

I contend that romantically, Shirley has a LEAD on the other two girls.

First, we have a confession from Lulu himself (ep. 14) that he may like Shirley...and we DEFINITELY know that she likes him. Whereas with the other two girls, we have NO IDEA if they even LIKE him - especially CC, who seems to be the fan favorite right now.

Plus, you saw the leaked part of Ep. 3, yes?

Second, we know that, for the most part, Karen has feelings towards Zero, not Lulu. This is evident by her own behavior in which she is HIGHLY duplicitous towards Zero and Lulu - she treats them, two aspects of the same person, in COMPLETELY opposite ways. Plus, if Lulu/Karen were to happen, it'd be a Dating the Boss scenario - which doesn't end well 9/10 times.

Third, Lulu himself has (indirectly) denied any sort of romantic attraction towards CC. "We are partners." NOT taken out of context, or anything like that. Furthermore, Lulu has (on more than one occasion) expressed exasperation with CC - not exactly a prime way to start a relationship.

Plus, CC is immortal - how much would it suck to be in love with someone who you know will die one day, while you stay young? Even if Lulu feels that way, I do not believe CC will reciprocate, for the simple reason of avoiding heartbreak.


That satisfactory?

That's nice and all, but it has been stated that romance was avoided in season 1 so it probably doesn't matter.

He never said anything of the sort. He said she was important to him as are several others in his life.

That could very well mean nothing. To be honest, it seems like the primary motivation for the pairing would be Lelouch's guilt over what he did.

And of course Lelouch is going to deny that he and C.C. are anything but partners as is C.C. in season 1 since they were just that for the most part along with the fact that the two of them lie quite often about how they are really feeling. And exasperation means nothing. Ever heard of Tsundere?

As for the immortal issue, it may not be that big of a problem. She could become mortal somehow, Lelouch could become immortal in some way, or it simply may not matter in the end if they are together. And C.C. could be afraid of her feelings, but that could very well be overcome.

[Majek]

A small island. And abundance of fish and other food. No contact to the world. I'd go for that right now if i was a CG character XD Too bad there won't be a ending like that anytime soon. XD

[Dann of Thursday]

Oh and RT, please use the edit button.

[Skyfall]

He never said anything of the sort. He said she was important to him as are several others in his life.

Actually he did. And he didn't mention any others.

Shirley: Did you also lose a family member?
Lelouch: No, a friend. Yes ... probably... a precious one.
Shirley: I see
Lelouch: Loss makes you realize a lot of things, doesn't it ? How much you loved her smile; how you will never laugh or fight together again.
Shirley: You loved her, didn't you?
Lelouch: ... i don't know anymore.

[KrimzonStriker]

Very well...but you've probably heard most of these before.

If I understand the Geass crash course I've taken, there are 3 primary shippings for Lulu:

Lulu/CC

Lulu/Karen

Lulu/Shirley

(Let's NOT go into Yaoi territory, 'kay? 'Kay.)

Now, I am perfectly willing to admit to the fact that for these 3 shippings, Shirley is behind the other two girls in screentime with Lulu.

HOW-ever...

I contend that romantically, Shirley has a LEAD on the other two girls.

First, we have a confession from Lulu himself (ep. 14) that he may like Shirley...and we DEFINITELY know that she likes him. Whereas with the other two girls, we have NO IDEA if they even LIKE him - especially CC, who seems to be the fan favorite right now.

Plus, you saw the leaked part of Ep. 3, yes?

Second, we know that, for the most part, Karen has feelings towards Zero, not Lulu. This is evident by her own behavior in which she is HIGHLY duplicitous towards Zero and Lulu - she treats them, two aspects of the same person, in COMPLETELY opposite ways. Plus, if Lulu/Karen were to happen, it'd be a Dating the Boss scenario - which doesn't end well 9/10 times.

Third, Lulu himself has (indirectly) denied any sort of romantic attraction towards CC. "We are partners." NOT taken out of context, or anything like that. Furthermore, Lulu has (on more than one occasion) expressed exasperation with CC - not exactly a prime way to start a relationship.

Plus, CC is immortal - how much would it suck to be in love with someone who you know will die one day, while you stay young? Even if Lulu feels that way, I do not believe CC will reciprocate, for the simple reason of avoiding heartbreak.


That satisfactory?

I've managed to deal with all those aspects myself. I'll even defend Kallen in my own reasoning. Also, screentime is quite important since this is an anime series, it's basically your lifeline in determining your importance. From all other points concerning the actual series, Shirely just isn't that important.

She has more of Lelouch's affection, but isn't that more from regret over what he's done to her? When has he shown genuine reception to Shirely without some sort of emotional burden and lament on his part as well. He's also ambiguous on all of his feelings in regards to the other girls which has been exhibited before, Lelouch just never considers these things, period. That little scene in 14 was just him being him, as indecisive and as noncommittal as ever with ANY other girl.

Yeah I saw it, I also saw how Lelouch used the set the whole thing up in order follow through on his plan. Kind of takes the potency of the moment away don't you think?

Lelouch and Zero are the same person no matter how she slices it, the jacket scene was a good reminder of Lelouch more then anything. You don't think they won't continue off of what they established there do you? I'm pulling for C.C but even I'm not that deluded :rolleyes:

It's called tsundre, and we've also seen Lelouch display moments of concern, and affection to C.C as well. Despite there interactions seemingly hostile it's actually the healthiest out of all of the other girls because there quite honest with each other compared to all the other girls precisely because it's a partnership where they both stand on equal grounding with each other, not simply one-sided domination on Lelouch's part.

Who knows what will happen? Despite the immortality Lelouch did say that she was not alone, that he was there for her and if she was a witch he'd become a warlock. Geass is also a strange and mysterious X factor in many respects, the possibilities that come with it may lead to a solution around that debacle of a problem, so you can't write off the pairing until everything is actually resolved by the end.

You didn't say anything I haven't already heard, nor anything I found that was all that convincing. She's got a chance, I admit it, but one verging on the abyss from my point of view.

[Dann of Thursday]

Actually he did. And he didn't mention any others.

Shirley: Did you also lose a family member?
Lelouch: No, a friend. Yes ... probably... a precious one.
Shirley: I see
Lelouch: Loss makes you realize a lot of things, doesn't it ? How much you loved her smile; how you will never laugh or fight together again.
Shirley: You loved her, didn't you?
Lelouch: ... i don't know anymore.

He wasn't sure. Unless he actually had said "yes," I don't take that as a confession.

In any case, she'll probably be the one in the end even if I find it hard for them to write a convincing scenario for it that wouldn't simply be for the sake of the pairing.

I swear though, they had better not do something like have him promise he'll come back to her and then leave her out except for minor scenes and an ending.

[Reiji Tabibito]

I've had run ins with you guys in the recent past (see backlog of the link in my sig). You're an interesting bunch, to say the least. The guys around here are really gonna have fun now. :heh:

Ahh, so you've met Aaron & Kha...


...just to let you know, I am a Cadian, but I'm far from the greatest of them - they're creators & haxxbusters - I'm just a writer.

And one that won't have access to R2 fansubs, and has ZERO knowledge of Japanese.

"Interesting bunch."

FASCINATING...

<laughs>

That's nice and all, but it has been stated that romance was avoided in season 1 so it probably doesn't matter.

True, but it's still fun to think about, which is why this thread exists?

Plus, it keeps the shipping wars from spilling into the whole forum...a special thread had to be created over in the Nanoha section (where I hail from) just to keep the rabid NanoFate & Yuunoha shippers from destroying the whole place.

He never said anything of the sort. He said she was important to him as are several others in his life.

Then that means one of two things:

1. He loves all of the people who are as important to him as Shirley,

2. He doesn't. They're just really good friends.

Either way, it puts Shirley in a potential romantic spotlight.

Plus, Lulu/Shirley seems a fairly reasonable way to keep her in a primary role throughout R2, since she doesn't have the Rebellion connections that CC and Karen do. What's more, it provides for a couple light-hearted episodes here or there (GEASS? Light-hearted? WHAT AM I THINKING?!).

That could very well mean nothing. To be honest, it seems like the primary motivation for the pairing would be Lelouch's guilt over what he did.

Could mean nothing, could mean everything - more than 1 relationship I've known has started from feelings of guilt...

And of course Lelouch is going to deny that he and C.C. are anything but partners as is C.C. in season 1 since they were just that for the most part along with the fact that the two of them lie quite often about how they are really feeling. And exasperation means nothing. Ever heard of Tsundere?

Tsundere generally applies to girls - this'd be the rare case of a male Tsundere.

And what proof is there that they're lying about how they feel?


As for the immortal issue, it may not be that big of a problem. She could become mortal somehow, Lelouch could become immortal in some way, or it simply may not matter in the end if they are together. And C.C. could be afraid of her feelings, but that could very well be overcome.

...and Shirley could learn to deal with Lulu = Zero.

Trust me, if the creators want it badly enough, it will happen, no matter how unreasonable it may seem.

Oh and RT, please use the edit button.

Done.

He wasn't sure. Unless he actually had said "yes," I don't take that as a confession.

I do. But that's just 'cause I'm a damned romance junkie, and find it hard to keep myself from going SQUEEE over Lulu/Shirley.

In any case, she'll probably be the one in the end even if I find it hard for them to write a convincing scenario for it that wouldn't simply be for the sake of the pairing.

If there is one at all - you said yourself they avoided it Season 1, who's to say they won't do it again?

I swear though, they had better not do something like have him promise he'll come back to her and then leave her out except for minor scenes and an ending.

Yeah. They do that, and they run the risk of alienating ALL the Lulu/Girl shippers - Lulu/CC & Karen for denying their OTP, and Lulu/Shirley for denying the female half screentime

[Dann of Thursday]

Plus, Lulu/Shirley seems a fairly reasonable way to keep her in a primary role throughout R2, since she doesn't have the Rebellion connections that CC and Karen do. What's more, it provides for a couple light-hearted episodes here or there (GEASS? Light-hearted? WHAT AM I THINKING?!).


Tsundere generally applies to girls - this'd be the rare case of a male Tsundere.

And what proof is there that they're lying about how they feel?

...and Shirley could learn to deal with Lulu = Zero.

Trust me, if the creators want it badly enough, it will happen, no matter how unreasonable it may seem.


And that is the problem. This is a mecha show. Romance for this is nothing more than a side thing and to propel a minor character like her just for the sake of romance seems quite odd to me.

Kallen and C.C. are both tsundere.

I don't think they considered one another in a romantic light since, again, romance was kept out of season 1 entirely on purpose. And there have been plenty of signs though others can probably name all of them better than I.

Doubtful to me honestly. She couldn't handle it at all in season 1 and it would be quite the stretch for her to be able to accept the darker aspect of Lelouch.

And again, this isn't a romance show.

[Skyfall]

He wasn't sure. Unless he actually had said "yes," I don't take that as a confession.

Oh, i didn't mean that as a confession - the scene was not that :) What he essentially said was "maybe" ... which doesn't mean anything concrete, but doesn't dismiss the possibility he might have. Coming from Lulu himself, thats probably as good as we can expect :p


In any case, she'll probably be the one in the end even if I find it hard for them to write a convincing scenario for it that wouldn't simply be for the sake of the pairing.

I swear though, they had better not do something like have him promise he'll come back to her and then leave her out except for minor scenes and an ending.

I can see a way to write a Shirley ending, and i would say its overall a pretty common storytelling device. It also needs separation with CC as a perquisite, which i also find quite likely to happen.

[mussing]
All it takes is some interactions between Shirley and Lelouch through the series (not necessarily a lot), her regaining her memory in some way (which i think is likely to happen), which Lelouch is going to angst over some, Shirley will come to gripes with it and let Lelouch know that she forgives him <insert more mushy speech> and that she would always think of him as Lulu and would be waiting for him <more mush> before Lelouch has to leave to take his fight to the emperor.

At the end of it all CC would have to "die"/leave (if the introduction of emperor's god slaying temple in his bedroom is not foreshadowing i don't know what is) and when Lulu starts blabbering about promising to stay with her she would say he has fulfilled that promise and that now he needs to get his behind back to Japan, as someone is waiting for him there and he owes that person as much"
[/rant]

As i said - its a pretty common storytelling device. And because its common, i can tell the situation has a very good setup for that. Am i expecting such an outcome ? I don't know. I am not the writer of CG, but if asked to conjure a Shirley's ending scenario i can do so much easier than say ... Happy end with CC. *shrug*

[Dann of Thursday]

Well, looking at it like that, that is what is going to happen or something quite like it. No point arguing anymore I guess since that scenario fits well with the story line and C.C. is going to die, which rules her out anyway.

A happy ending with C.C. is impossible anyway I guess. C.C. would definately say that to Lelouch after all she has seen.

Might as well close this thread now.

[Reiji Tabibito]

And that is the problem. This is a mecha show. Romance for this is nothing more than a side thing and to propel a minor character like her just for the sake of romance seems quite odd to me.

And again, this isn't a romance show.

Hey, I am NOT disagreeing with you - I think any romance is a long-shot here.

Oh, i didn't mean that as a confession - the scene was not that :) What he essentially said was "maybe" ... which doesn't mean anything concrete, but doesn't dismiss the possibility he might have. Coming from Lulu himself, thats probably as good as we can expect :p

It's about as good as we can get from MOST guys, who generally have fewer issues than Lulu.




I can see a way to write a Shirley ending, and i would say its overall a pretty common storytelling device. It also needs separation with CC as a perquisite, which i also find quite likely to happen.

[mussing]
All it takes is some interactions between Shirley and Lelouch through the series (not necessarily a lot), her regaining her memory in some way (which i think is likely to happen), which Lelouch is going to angst over some, Shirley will come to gripes with it and let Lelouch know that she forgives him <insert more mushy speech> and that she would always think of him as Lulu and would be waiting for him <more mush> before Lelouch has to leave to take his fight to the emperor.

At the end of it all CC would have to "die"/leave (if the introduction of emperor's god slaying temple in his bedroom is not foreshadowing i don't know what is) and when Lulu starts blabbering about promising to stay with her she would say he has fulfilled that promise and that now he needs to get his behind back to Japan, as someone is waiting for him there and he owes that person as much"
[/rant]

As i said - its a pretty common storytelling device. And because its common, i can tell the situation has a very good setup for that. Am i expecting such an outcome ? I don't know. I am not the writer of CG, but if asked to conjure a Shirley's ending scenario i can do so much easier than say ... Happy end with CC. *shrug*

Agreement here. And the "God slaying Temple" might just be a euphemism...N2 Mines anyone?

Well, looking at it like that, that is what is going to happen or something quite like it. No point arguing anymore I guess since that scenario fits well with the story line and C.C. is going to die, which rules her out anyway.


CC has survived a LOT. She's been fatally shot TWICE, and burned at the stake, and she's STILL not dead.

My opinion - she's GEASS' version of Kane.


A happy ending with C.C. is impossible anyway I guess. C.C. would definately say that to Lelouch after all she has seen.


Which is why it's so curious to me why she's the fan favorite for Lulu shipping.


EDIT:




It doesn't matter anymore since Skyfall's scenario is going to happen. It fits too well with the storyline as a whole to be anything, but the ending scenario. If they make it convincing maybe I can come to like it.


You say that like Skyfall = Taniguchi-sensei.


What's going to annoy me is that they will probably still have scenes with Lelouch and C.C., when it's clear nothing is going to come out of it in the end. I wish they would just go with Shirley and avoid all other pairings from now till the end.

Hey, that's what I'd like too - but you have to pander to the audience sometimes.

[Dann of Thursday]

Which is why it's so curious to me why she's the fan favorite for Lulu shipping.

Because people are idiots. Seriously though, there are actually certain things they could do to make the pairing happen and be happy.

It doesn't matter anymore since Skyfall's scenario is going to happen. It fits too well with the storyline as a whole to be anything, but the ending scenario. If they make it convincing maybe I can come to like it.

What's going to annoy me is that they will probably still have scenes with Lelouch and C.C., when it's clear nothing is going to come out of it in the end. I wish they would just go with Shirley and avoid all other pairings from now till the end.

[Nilie]

Okay, I'm not out of arguments but I am out of energy so I'll quickly make my feelings about al of this known. ShirleyxLelouch ENDING (I do emphasize 'ending') would simply kill me a lot inside because so far the political undertone this series has taken, the way the character development has been going, it's all incredibly enough, wonderfully, exactly all I have ever wanted from an awesome anime series. A good ending would KILL it a lot. You don't just sign a deal with the devil and live happy ever after after, I believe the world can now bear BETTER endings than those.
I don't want a happy ending for this series, I just want a satisfactory one and if possible one that leaves a lot up to fans' imaginations.
Kallen not getting anything on her part just 'cause she was more attracted to Zero than Lelouch isn't fair to her at all. (Who doesn't prefer the masked version of the heroes in this life?) Shirley is wonderful, yes, but she's not exactly a Naruto's Sakura with Sasuke being the bane of her existence. She could live a very good life without Lelouch too, I believe the latter is more likely to try and forever go guardian angel on her and selected few others from afar after he finds his own peace and stability.
There ARE more important things than these two women here, there's Nanally first, that we all know, then there is his goal which he can only achieve alongside C.C (and perhaps, dare I say Kallen) and finally keeping his promise to C.C and paying her back.
That said, Nanally, Nanally, Nanally, then C.C, C.C, then Kallen, then surviving and gaining a stable life THEN Shirley&Co (coz the guy DOES owe, I believe, ppl like Millay quite a few favors too I think. She might be an even better friend to him and don't get me started on the priority of getting things with Suzaku cleared and a little better before the end of the show, they do have a most tragic yet beautiful kind of friendship, cliche stuff ppl). Don't kill my brains by trying to give that girl a bigger role than that!

[Dann of Thursday]

Lelouch was said to be getting a good ending. And he couldn't ask for anything better than Shirley is would provide the most stable and healthy environment for him.

The only chance the other girls have is if she dies and even then they'll figure out some way to make it happen.

[Nilie]

Lelouch was said to be getting a good ending. And he couldn't ask for anything better than Shirley is would provide the most stable and healthy environment for him.

The only chance the other girls have is if she dies and even then they'll figure out some way to make it happen.

*sigh* You know Damm, I like you, but there's only so much of your pessimism in your weird not OTP favorable optimism my feelings can take. :P

[Dann of Thursday]

Hey, I'm just being realistic and that is what LelouchXShirley is now. We saw him bring up a sort of promise to her twice already. Taniguchi told us the pairing in season 1 and nobody believed it. Clever.

Stop believing in anything else and save yourself from disappointment.

[quina]

the leaked makes Lelouche x Shirley more possible now. At least according to what he said.
CC x Lelouche are still way top on the most possible list though.

From what I see what Lelouche felt towards her is not love but guilt. "After everything is over, you..." was whats he said (and before in S1 as well).
He probably is planning to die :\ to atone it.

[KrimzonStriker]

Because people are idiots. Seriously though, there are actually certain things they could do to make the pairing happen and be happy.

It doesn't matter anymore since Skyfall's scenario is going to happen. It fits too well with the storyline as a whole to be anything, but the ending scenario. If they make it convincing maybe I can come to like it.

What's going to annoy me is that they will probably still have scenes with Lelouch and C.C., when it's clear nothing is going to come out of it in the end. I wish they would just go with Shirley and avoid all other pairings from now till the end.

You stop it right there Dann, NOTHING CONFIRMED YET. Especially not Shirley of all things being the pairing with Lelouch at the end. I think you've built up an immunity to me, seriously I feel you don't listen to what I have to say at all. Honestly, if it isn't Kallen it's Shirley but not for a moment is it C.C with you :rolleyes:

[Dann of Thursday]

the leaked makes Lelouche x Shirley more possible now. At least according to what he said.
CC x Lelouche are still way top on the most possible list though.

Not really since that pairing is going to end badly with her dying and telling him to go to Shirley. They have no real chance as long as Shirley lives.

Hey, at least we know how it will end for Lelouch.

[Skyfall]

Which is why it's so curious to me why she's the fan favorite for Lulu shipping.


A foreseeable good end is not needed for a particular pairing to be popular. Popularity often comes down to how much people like a certain character type VS the other available options, how "fun" it is to watch said couple together and so forth. There are plenty of memorable couples in anime that didn't have the happiest of endings. Also, it is generally easier to write a memorable tragic/bittersweet end.


It doesn't matter anymore since Skyfall's scenario is going to happen. It fits too well with the storyline as a whole to be anything, but the ending scenario. If they make it convincing maybe I can come to like it.

Thank you for having so much faith in me, but it is not anything definite. I am not the writer of CG, so all i can present (much like everyone else) is speculation based on what i see in the show. By any means this isn't the only path the story can take, though i wouldn't be surprised if it did. The setup for the scenario i presented is indeed there, and the general outline is pretty common used, but since we are so early in the story it also relies heavily on the assumption things wouldn't have changed before we get to the end. Plot twists can be evil if the writer intends to, so we can't even be sure about the physical safety of the cast before the final battle.

Does this mean i expect Shirley to die ? Not at all. But plot twists are called that because they are unpredictable. There are some things i am fairly certain about, but i certainly can't read the writer's mind, thus all i can do is speculate with the knowledge available to me.

And no, i am not closing the thread :p

I don't want a happy ending for this series, I just want a satisfactory one and if possible one that leaves a lot up to fans' imaginations.

Personally i consider endings that "leave things to viewer's imagination" an incredibly weak form of storytelling. Its the author's job to write an ending, not mine. And i by large prefer a sense of conclusion that is not just made up in my head.

She could live a very good life without Lelouch too, I believe the latter is more likely to try and forever go guardian angel on her and selected few others from afar after he finds his own peace and stability.

I could say the same about Kallen as well. Remember - it has not have to be "fair". The second you implement a "love triangle" in the story you are also setting up one person for a fall. Thats the inevitability of such a setup. One (or more) characters will have to come to terms with the situation, regardless of whom the "winner" might be. Thats just how it is.

[quina]

nah, this thread should be closed since ep 25.

[Dann of Thursday]

You stop it right there Dann, NOTHING CONFIRMED YET. Especially not Shirley of all things being the pairing with Lelouch at the end. I think you've built up an immunity to me, seriously I feel you don't listen to what I have to say at all. Honestly, if it wasn't Kallen it's Shirley but not for a moment is it C.C with you :rolleyes:

Skyfall's scenario is too perfect to be anything, but what will happen. I wish I had thought of this early and saved the trouble of getting my hopes up. And Shirley pretty much always had better chances than anyone else's. People disregarded her because she was a minor character, when it's clear that didn't matter.

[Nilie]

Hey, I'm just being realistic and that is what LelouchXShirley is now. We saw him bring up a sort of promise to her twice already. Taniguchi told us the pairing in season 1 and nobody believed it. Clever.

Stop believing in anything else and save yourself from disappointment.

So what? You just make all the marketing about much more sexier pairings, put plenty of hints here and there, leave fans with plenty of expectations to then just end the action with a peaceful, HEY, TOTALLY normal girl here, not exciting, but happy enough and healthy and normal.

Sad, you just just stabbed my heart several times. I beg the fans who have better skills than mine at surviving OTP heartbreaks to write enough fanfiction and draw enough fanarts to help me collect the scattered shards of my broken heart and perhaps find a way to heal a little...

I mean, come ONE! It's so POPULAR!! D: Surely the writers will have pulled off something real nice.

-EDIT- Besides, there wasn't just ShirleyxLulu during those episodes. C.CXLulu hints where just right next to each of those. Perhaps not as strong but still clearly eminent. Same in episode 3, the mentions of C.C where rather loud in my humble opinion.

[KrimzonStriker]

Most unlikeliest thing to happen as far as how the present story in is set up as far from what I'm able to see. The major pot twist would be if they went with Shirely, and that might as well sink Code Geass from the legacy among the greatest animes to one of the most whacked endings this side of Evangalion. Not to mention incredibly chessy at the same time >_>

[Nilie]

Most unlikeliest thing to happen as far as how the present story in is set up as far from what I'm able to see. The major pot twist would be if they went with Shirely, and that might as well sink Code Geass from the legacy among the greatest animes to one of the most whacked endings this side of Evangalion. Not to mention incredibly chessy at the same time >_>

I think I'll e-marry you for saying that. >D

I did say I already though 50 episodes was WAY totally not enough :P

[quina]

....oh come on.. Shirley is a good innocent girl. And I would enjoy quite a lulz if it does happen.

[Skyfall]

Most unlikeliest thing to happen as far as how the present story in is set up as far from what I'm able to see. The major pot twist would be if they went with Shirely, and that might as well sink Code Geass from the legacy among the greatest animes to one of the most whacked endings this side of Evangalion. Not to mention incredibly chessy at the same time >_>

Saying a show goes from one of the greatest things to a pile of poo because a pairing you dislike happened doesn't really make for the most objective criticism ever :p

Sad, you just just stabbed my heart several times. I beg the fans who have better skills than mine at surviving OTP heartbreaks to write enough fanfiction and draw enough fanarts to help me collect the scattered shards of my broken heart and perhaps find a way to heal a little...

I might if i muster enough willpower, but don't expect Kallen x Lelouch from me. If i were to write something, it would likely be Lelouch x Euphie :p

[Nilie]

Saying a show goes from one of the greatest things to a pile of poo because a pairing you dislike happened doesn't really make for the most objective criticism ever :p

YESH IT DOES. *childishly said*


Personally i consider endings that "leave things to viewer's imagination" an incredibly weak form of storytelling. Its the author's job to write an ending, not mine. And i by large prefer a sense of conclusion that is not just made up in my head.



How does an ending GunxSword style sound to you? :(

[KrimzonStriker]

Saying a show goes from one of the greatest things to a pile of poo because a pairing you dislike happened doesn't really make for the most objective criticism ever :p

It's just foolhardy from any critics point of view, here we have a girl who basically has been on the sidelines throughout the entire series, had basically no relevance within the overall plot and focus in the series and then when it seems like they've dumped her for good and ended what little use she was to the story your suddenly saying they'll throw her in as the main heroine out of left field. It's a pathetic gesture compared to the vast number of other directions they could take the series in to say the least.

[Nilie]

I might if i muster enough willpower, but don't expect Kallen x Lelouch from me. If i were to write something, it would likely be Lelouch x Euphie :p
No thx, I crave C.CxLulu with plenty of hints from plenty of the uncountable number of other possible pairings here and there and around and in between, all written IC please! :D

It's just foolhardy from any critics point of view, here we have a girl who basically has been on the sidelines throughout the entire series, had basically no relevance within the overall plot and focus in the series and then when it seems like they've dumped her for good and ended what little use she was to the story your suddenly saying they'll throw her in as the main heroine out of left field. It's a pathetic gesture compared to the vast number of other directions they could take the series in to say the least.

That's it! *kneel with a box containing a jewelry USB portable drive* E-marry me!

[Dann of Thursday]

A foreseeable good end is not needed for a particular pairing to be popular. Popularity often comes down to how much people like a certain character type VS the other available options, how "fun" it is to watch said couple together and so forth. There are plenty of memorable couples in anime that didn't have the happiest of endings. Also, it is generally easier to write a memorable tragic/bittersweet end.

Thank you for having so much faith in me, but it is not anything definite. I am not the writer of CG, so all i can present (much like everyone else) is speculation based on what i see in the show. By any means this isn't the only path the story can take, though i wouldn't be surprised if it did. The setup for the scenario i presented is indeed there, and the general outline is pretty common used, but since we are so early in the story it also relies heavily on the assumption things wouldn't have changed before we get to the end. Plot twists can be evil if the writer intends to, so we can't even be sure about the physical safety of the cast before the final battle.

Does this mean i expect Shirley to die ? Not at all. But plot twists are called that because they are unpredictable. There are some things i am fairly certain about, but i certainly can't read the writer's mind, thus all i can do is speculate with the knowledge available to me.

And no, i am not closing the thread :p

If they had gone LelouchXC.C., it would have been a bittersweet ending entirely. They'll probably make it seem like they are going to do that, but then remind us of Shirley who is waiting for Lelouch. Incredibly predictable actually.

It's too perfect with everything to not happen. They keep bringing up these scenes with Shirley and they have far more weight than anyone else's. We see him thinking about it in episode 3. He plans to take care of all this then go back to her and Nunnally.That is how it is going to end since it gives a satisfying conclusion for Lelouch.

Shirley won't die because she is considered a minor character. If she did, all other pairings would be over since he would consumed with guilt over both her and Euphie to consider anyone else.

So what? You just make all the marketing about much more sexier pairings, put plenty of hints here and there, leave fans with plenty of expectations to then just end the action with a peaceful, HEY, TOTALLY normal girl here, not exciting, but happy enough and healthy and normal.

Sad, you just just stabbed my heart several times. I beg the fans who have better skills than mine at surviving OTP heartbreaks to write enough fanfiction and draw enough fanarts to help me collect the scattered shards of my broken heart and perhaps find a way to heal a little...

I mean, come ONE! It's so POPULAR!! D: Surely the writers will have pulled off something real nice.

-EDIT- Besides, there wasn't just ShirleyxLulu during those episodes. C.CXLulu hints where just right next to each of those. Perhaps not as strong but still clearly eminent. Same in episode 3, the mentions of C.C where rather loud in my humble opinion.

Exactly. It's brilliant isn't it? The perfect surprise. Besides, Taniguchi had nothing to do with that marketing so it is all meaningless anyway.

Fanfiction is meaningless. And you get used to it. Just watch a few more series and get disappointed. You get used to it.

Taniguchi just wants to tell his story. While he is glad that people like it, he isn't going to do a pairing just to please people.

What mentions? Did I miss something? Besides, he still has that promise he intends to keep to Shirley. Unless she leaves him off the hook and they part as friends, it's over.

Most unlikeliest thing to happen as far as how the present story in is set up as far from what I'm able to see. The major pot twist would be if they went with Shirely, and that might as well sink Code Geass from the legacy among the greatest animes to one of the most whacked endings this side of Evangalion. Not to mention incredibly chessy at the same time >_>

How so? It isn't that big of a plot twist. You only say all that because you don't like the pairing, or rather don't see how it could happen. Taniguchi and Okouchi are good at this. They'll come up with a good way to do it.

I think I'll e-marry you for saying that. >D

I did say I already though 50 episodes was WAY totally not enough :P

The series was confirmed to just be 50 episodes.

[Lugia_Tsuyu]

Now I gotta say sorry for all Lelouch x Shirley fans. I don't see any possibility of him ending up with her yet. I mean...Lelouch always do something for Nunnally and (maybe) himself first. I don't think Shirley has ever see his TRUE self yet. (Well, she only knows that he's Zero, but she wasn't sure about that herself.) Will she be able to accept the REAL Lelouch??? The Lelouch that wants to crush Britania so bad???

And another thing is...if he ends up with her...I rather choose Kallen.

And Dann...as much as I like you a lot...but are you sure your favorite pairing is Lelouch x C.C.??? Cause you always say he's going to end up with other girls. Before you said it'll be Lelouch x Kallen...and now you say it's going to be Lelouch x Shirley. I'm confuse here. =_+''
And whenever I read your comment about the pairings...my hopes always become doubtful.

[KrimzonStriker]

How so? It isn't that big of a plot twist. You only say all that because you don't like the pairing, or rather don't see how it could happen. Taniguchi and Okouchi are good at this. They'll come up with a good way to do it.

Quit talking like it's already happened dammit Dann! It would take a writer that could alter spacial reality and distort time for me to see a way they could make such a thing work with everything we have already established so far, I swear. >_>

[Dann of Thursday]

Quit talking like it's already happened dammit Dann! It would take a writer that could alter spacial reality and distort time for me to see a way they could make such a thing work with everything we have already established so far, I swear. >_>

Convince me completely then!!!

And they could do anything to make it work. Give Shirley a ton of development that makes it seem quite clear she is the one.

[Nilie]

Exactly. It's brilliant isn't it? The perfect surprise. Besides, Taniguchi had nothing to do with that marketing so it is all meaningless anyway.

Fanfiction is meaningless. And you get used to it. Just watch a few more series and get disappointed. You get used to it.

What mentions? Did I miss something? Besides, he still has that promise he intends to keep to Shirley.


The series was confirmed to just be 50 episodes.

*side glares* You contradict yourself a lot Dann, first it's predictable then it's brilliant? Fanfiction meaningless? I KEEL JOO UNTIL YOU DIE FROM IT! Watch more series? Dude? I've watched enough to have enough heartbreaks to learn to bet on the canon without ever ignoring or forget and not appreciating or not encouraging the crack!
CLAMP fan here.
Promise to Shirley, huh? And Nunally? And C.C? What do those count for next to Shirley's? Besides, it's not like she's asked for anything, in my opinion, he's just trying to male up for something, prove something, that he's grateful that'she's so wonderful, but come on. It could happen, but it's just... dreadful.. @ this point that is.

Yeah, I know it's still only 50 episodes, but that won't stop me form whining about it, kay thx bai.

[KrimzonStriker]

Convince me completely then!!!

And they could do anything to make it work. Give Shirley a ton of development that makes it seem quite clear she is the one.

You don't seem to ever need to be convinced completely to accept anything that just makes you even more depressed!! :eyebrow:

After everything that happened in Season 1, how they established each character and their role, your saying they'll flush all that development down the toilet for that? It is the more unlikely scenario, and you know it, you're just trying to not give yourself and hope like always!!:frustrated:

[Skyfall]

It's just foolhardy from any critics point of view, here we have a girl who basically has been on the sidelines throughout the entire series, had basically no relevance within the overall plot and focus in the series and then when it seems like they've dumped her for good and ended what little use she was to the story your suddenly saying they'll throw her in as the main heroine out of left field. It's a pathetic gesture compared to the vast number of other directions they could take the series in to say the least.

Main heroine doesn't necessarily translate to the final coupling, and she isn't being focused on because, besides being geassed, she is not particularly important to the current focus point of the story. That doesn't mean she is not important to Lelouch though (he himself says otherwise), and going that road would have rather good thematical material.

And mind presenting some of the "vast number of other directions" they could take, with added explanation why they would make for "superior" storytelling ?

Promise to Shirley, huh? And Nunally? And C.C? What do those count for next to Shirley's? Besides, it's not like she's asked for anything, in my opinion, he's just trying to male up for something, prove something, that he's grateful that'she's so wonderful, but come on. It could happen, but it's just... dreadful.. @ this point that is

Dreadful is an opinion, not an argument against the pairing :p. If CC dies (which is the only way i can see Shirley happening) then she is obviously "out of the picture". And Nunnaly doesn't exactly present an obstacle for Lulu on the romance side. Also, she is not going to be stuck in that chair forever. Her legs not having healed up until now is a silly plot device anyway, but never mind that. Her blindness is psychological. Want to place a bet she opens her eyes before the season ends ? ;)

[Nilie]

And Dann...as much as I like you a lot...but are you sure your favorite pairing is Lelouch x C.C.??? Cause you always say he's going to end up with other girls. Before you said it'll be Lelouch x Kallen...and now you say it's going to be Lelouch x Shirley. I'm confuse here. =_+''
And whenever I read your comment about the pairings...my hopes always become doubtful.

Agree that in a worst case scenario (AFTER SHIRLEY case that is) saddest sorta ending for the majority of the fanbase would be LelouchXKallen I guess, so far.

And I guess it's just Dann's twisted way of avoiding his own heartbreak. ;P Break all of ours in anticipation of the worst in the meanwhile. :D lol, no offense Dann dear, just teasing ya back.

Edit- I wonder though, say 30 weeks from now, when you've eaten your words after we've shoved them down your throat with good reason :P what lesson will you have learned about optimism and hoping for the better so as to actually see it happen?

Srsly, guys, Shirleyxlulu? Jeez, unless the girl dies her hair green or something I just dunno how I could take that and live.

[Dann of Thursday]

You don't seem to ever need to be convinced completely to accept anything that just makes you even more depressed!! :eyebrow:

After everything that happened in Season 1, how they established each character and their role, your saying they'll flush all that development down the toilet for that? It is the more unlikely scenario, and you know it, you're just trying to not give yourself and hope like always!!:frustrated:

True. The only way I could ever be convinced would be if they had something happen in the show to directly discount Shirley. They will have to deal with her eventually though.

Possibly. The writers could do whatever they want if they choose to.

[KrimzonStriker]

Main heroine doesn't necessarily translate to the final coupling, and she isn't being focused on because, besides being geassed, she is not particularly important to the current focus point of the story. That doesn't mean she is not important to Lelouch though (he himself says otherwise), and going that road would have rather good thematical material.

And mind presenting some of the "vast number of other directions" they could take, with added explanation why they would make for "superior" storytelling ?

And he himself is always ambiguous in that regard, often going out of his way to choose options more for his goals then anything tied to his normal life, even his sister who he holds with all his affection is more relevant to the story now then Shirely ever was!

The 'other' directions would provide greater in-depth detail in keeping with the elements of the main plot while providing greater opportunity with Lelouch over the rather sparse existence he puts up at school where he associates with his friends. He's been pulling away from that life since the beginning and that's what has made this story both eventful and dramatic at the same time, and Kallen or C.C provide far more likelihood since they are far more involved in his new life.

[Narona]

it would likely be Lelouch x Euphie :p
Euphie's personnality resembles shirley's one (innocent and kind). And we know that Lelouch had a crush on Euphie.

It seems he likes that type of girl.

[Dann of Thursday]

True in some regards, but he seems as if he plans to abandon that new life in the end in favor of a peaceful one.

[KrimzonStriker]

Euphie's personnality resembles shirley's one. And we know that Lelouch had a crush on Euphie.

It seems he likes that type of girl.

What happened with Euphie should send a message if you go by that regard >_>

True in some regards, but he seems as if he plans to abandon that new life in the end in favor of a peaceful one.

Pigs eye, a peaceful life never suited Lelouch so long as the rest of the world is as it is. He is compelled to do something and doing nothing is what he has always despised about himself.

[Nilie]

Want to place a bet she opens her eyes before the season ends ? ;)

Nope :P that would be very stupid of me, as it's not something I have any intention of betting against. <3 I love the symbolism behind it and have so many high expectations for the subtext regarding her character and conclusions :D

Oh, and does, traumatizing sound better than dreadful then?
I AM ready to bet on more than 90% of the fanbase being traumatized by ShirleyxLulu.

[Skyfall]

And he himself is always ambiguous in that regard, often going out of his way to choose options more for his goals then anything tied to his normal life, even his once underdeveloped sister who he holds with all his affection is more relevant to the story now then Shirely ever was!

The 'other' directions would provide greater in-depth detail in keeping with the elements of the main plot while providing greater opportunity with Lelouch over the rather sparse existence he puts up at school where he associates with his friends. He's been pulling away from that life since the beginning and that's what has made this story both eventful and dramatic at the same time, and Kallen or C.C provide far more likelihood since they are far more involved in his new life.

Of course he is "being pulled away from his normal life". Do not forget though why he is fighting in the first place. Its not because he likes to, but because he wasn't satisfied with the situation in the "normal life". He may be chosing options that are not really harmless for his "normal life", but to better that life is why he is doing it in the first place. He won't be fighting forever, and, unless dead, will come back to this "normal life" eventually.

Kallen x Lelouch romance has below zero relevance to the story or the themes touched thus far, as it wouldn't tie with any of them on any level. Not that it has to, but if you are looking for a relationship that would be pure fanservice among the three, this would be it.


Oh, and does, traumatizing sound better than dreadful then?
I AM ready to bet on more than 90% of the fanbase being traumatized by ShirleyxLulu.

Traumatized fanbase is good. Its fun to watch :p

See, i don't have any specific preferences among the pairings - i don't really care whom he ends up with, or if he ends up with someone at all. Thats why its all good to me :p

[Narona]

What happened with Euphie should send a message if you go by that regard >_>

In turn 3, Shirley and Lelouch look so cute together <3 Why do you hate that pairing so much XD?

And, you know, I don't care as long as i get my VilettaXougi pairing :D.



I AM ready to bet on more than 90% of the fanbase being traumatized by ShirleyxLulu.

It's unverifiable :rolleyes: .

[KrimzonStriker]

Of course he is "being pulled away from his normal life". Do not forget though why he is fighting in the first place. Its not because he likes to, but because he wasn't satisfied with the situation in the "normal life". He may be chosing options that are not really harmless for his "normal life", but to better that life is why he is doing it in the first place. He won't be fighting forever, and, unless dead, will come back to this "normal life" eventually.

Kallen x Lelouch romance has below zero relevance to the story or the themes touched thus far, as it wouldn't tie with any of them on any level. Not that it has to, but if you are looking for a relationship that would be pure fanservice among the three, this would be it.

In many respects I see him taking on the burdens of ensuring that normal life for at least his sister, he never said himself, and that is in keeping with his self-sacrificing affliction. Who the heck was going to lead the US of J if he had actually won independence? You think simply destroying Britannia would have been enough? He needed to create a 'peaceful' world above all else and that isn't possible unless he wins, for good.

She has more of a chance then Shirely as far as I'm concerned, both in involvement with the story and in terms of interaction with Lelouch thus far. Though I agree it would look like mere fan-service, which is why I pull for C.C above all.

[Lugia_Tsuyu]

OOO I just realized something too. Before, Lelouch's memories were fake, but now he remembered everything. So of course he will go on a date with Shirley...it just my opinion...he likes Shirley like a friend...but what he did to her was (really) bad...so he felt guilty about it and tries to find the way to make it up to her (go on a date with her because she will be happy.) Yeah, something like that.

ANd what I also noticed...they started to know about C.C. and expect her to do anything to help Lelouch (that might lead to something good or bad for Lelouch x C.C. pairing).

[Blue_Mercy]

Kallen x Lelouch romance has below zero relevance to the story or the themes touched thus far, as it wouldn't tie with any of them on any level. Not that it has to, but if you are looking for a relationship that would be pure fanservice among the three, this would be it.



A person that could ending up freeing Japan getting together with the Japanese girl main character doesn't tie in to the story or themes? Are you sure?:twitch:

[Dann of Thursday]

Pigs eye, a peaceful life never suited Lelouch so long as the rest of the world is as it is. He is compelled to do something and doing nothing is what he has always despised about himself.

It didn't suit him because he didn't like the way the world was. That was why he could never really enjoy his daily life. If he changes things then what he'll do is go back to that life after assuring the world is on its way to being better.

Nope :P that would be very stupid of me, as it's not something I have any intention of betting against. <3 I love the symbolism behind it and have so many high expectations for the subtext regarding her character and conclusions :D

Oh, and does, traumatizing sound better than dreadful then?
I AM ready to bet on more than 90% of the fanbase being traumatized by ShirleyxLulu.

How so? I've seen Nunnally opening her eyes coming for a long, long time. She isn't really blind and one of Lelouch's hopes is that she will open her eyes to a peaceful world.

I honestly doubt that many care.

[KrimzonStriker]

OOO I just realized something too. Before, Lelouch's memories were fake, but now he remembered everything. So of course he will go on a date with Shirley...it just my opinion...he likes Shirley like a friend...but what he did to her was (really) bad...so he felt guilty about it and tries to find the way to make it up to her (go on a date with her because she will be happy.) Yeah, something like that.

ANd what I also noticed...they started to know about C.C. and expect her to do anything to help Lelouch (that might lead to something good or bad for Lelouch x C.C. pairing).


He went on a date to fool his wardens and root them out, not because of Shirley, it was just convenient which was why he said sorry again for using her like this and even putting her in danger. He chose an aspect of his life as Zero over the one as Lelouch basically. >_>

It didn't suit him because he didn't like the way the world was. That was why he could never really enjoy his daily life. If he changes things then what he'll do is go back to that life after assuring the world is on its way to being better.

He has to have power in order to ensure that though, which is what he basically says all the time. I thought you were the one who brought up that it wasn't as simple as simply winning, rather we have to think of the ramifications if such an even were to occur.

[Dann of Thursday]

ANd what I also noticed...they started to know about C.C. and expect her to do anything to help Lelouch (that might lead to something good or bad for Lelouch x C.C. pairing).

Do you mind explaining what you mean? Did I miss something in that leak?

He went on a date to fool his wardens and root them out, not because of Shirley, it was just convenient which was why he said sorry again for using her like this and even putting her in danger. He chose an aspect of his life as Zero over the one as Lelouch basically. >_>

It was sort of a combination of both, though I would say getting rid of his wardens was the main goal. He did seem to be enjoying himself and does want Shirley to be happy, which only seems to be possible with him.


He has to have power in order to ensure that though, which is what he basically says all the time. I thought you were the one who brought up that it wasn't as simple as simply winning, rather we have to think of the ramifications if such an even were to occur.

I sort of thought he would choose people he knew could handle things and watch things in the background to make sure it all went okay.

He must have thought of something though, otherwise why say that line about her in episode 3?

[KrimzonStriker]

It was sort of a combination of both, though I would say getting rid of his wardens was the main goal. He did seem to be enjoying himself and does want Shirley to be happy, which only seems to be possible with him.

He was also the reason why she was so unhappy once upon a time if I recall, and much of this happiness is based on a lie. Not the greatest of signs I must say. >_>

[Narona]

Do you mind explaining what you mean? Did I miss something in that leak?

During his date with shirley, Britannian's spies expect that C.C. will appear to make contact with Lelouch. They aren't aware about what we have seen inside the babel tower at the end of Turn 1.

[Dann of Thursday]

He was also the reason why she was so unhappy once upon a time if I recall, and much of this happiness is based on a lie. Not the greatest of signs I must say. >_>

He wants to make up for that by making her happy now. It is true that a lot of it is based on something of a lie as well his guilt, but that can be resolved in the next 22 episodes.

During his date with shirley, Britannian's spies expect that C.C. will appear to make contact with Lelouch. They aren't aware about what we have seen inside the babel tower at the end of Turn 1.

Oh, that was it. That doesn't indicate a thing though.

[Nilie]

Kallen x Lelouch romance has below zero relevance to the story or the themes touched thus far, as it wouldn't tie with any of them on any level. Not that it has to, but if you are looking for a relationship that would be pure fanservice among the three, this would be it.

Traumatized fanbase is good. Its fun to watch :p

See, i don't have any specific preferences among the pairings - i don't really care whom he ends up with, or if he ends up with someone at all. Thats why its all good to me :p

KallenxLulu still better and better chances than Shirley.

And so I take it you just enjoy killing the fans who do care for a certain pairing? I think I am pairing you and Dann as the evil, depressing dudes. EDDs!


In turn 3, Shirley and Lelouch look so cute together <3 Why do you hate that pairing XD?

And, you know, I don't care as long as i get my VilettaXougi pairing :D.

It's unverifiable :rolleyes: .
I'll ignore the 1st Q and pretend you never typed it. >.>
You'll get your VillettaxOugi, God willing. Probably CLAMP X1999 Sora-chan and Arashi style too ;P probably

The fact it is unverifiable makes it all the more safer a bet to set my heart on >D

[Dann of Thursday]

KallenxLulu still better and better chances than Shirley.

And so I take it you just enjoy killing the fans who do care for a certain pairing? I think I am pairing you and Dann as the evil, depressing dudes. EDDs!

How so?

Skyfall doesn't care who Lelouch ends up with. I'm the depressing one.

[KrimzonStriker]

He wants to make up for that by making her happy now. It is true that a lot of it is based on something of a lie as well his guilt, but that can be resolved in the next 22 episodes.

Miracle of miracles if they do Dann, especially with how they've set the story up thus far :rolleyes:

[Nilie]

How so?

Skyfall doesn't care who Lelouch ends up with. I'm the depressing one.

No hun, you're the MORE depressing one :P I'm not insulting our mod, just teasing them, silly. Besides, she said fan trauma was fun to watch :P I bite ya know.

It's getting a bit too late *early in the morning actually* here to continue, I'll see you guys some other day, thx thoug, it was a nice enough discussion so far :D

[Dann of Thursday]

Miracle of miracles if they do Dann, especially with how they've set the story up thus far :rolleyes:

Can we go over exactly what they have set up, in list form?

[Skyfall]

In many respects I see him taking on the burdens of ensuring that normal life for at least his sister, he never said himself, and that is in keeping with his self-sacrificing affliction. Who the heck was going to lead the US of J if he had actually won independence? You think simply destroying Britannia would have been enough? He needed to create a 'peaceful' world above all else and that isn't possible unless he wins, for good.

Yes, Nunnaly is his primary concern indeed. That doesn't mean he is going to throw away the opportunity if he has one to have a normal life once this all is over himself. Provided he makes it through.


She has more of a chance then Shirely as far as I'm concerned, both in involvement with the story and in terms of interaction with Lelouch thus far. Though I agree it would look like mere fan-service, which is why I pull for C.C above all.

As far as i am concerned she has no chance at all, period. While she has more interactions with him than Shirley (does she really ? I am rewatching season 1 right now and it really doesn't seem that way ...but for the sake of argument lets assume she does), but those are not really something i would see as foundation for romance. Vast majority of it is work related. Thematic wise i prefer CC as well though :) Lets see if it ends up in anything besides tragedy though ;)

A person that could ending up freeing Japan getting together with the Japanese girl main character doesn't tie in to the story or themes? Are you sure?:twitch:

Yes, i am fairly sure that him ending up with half Britannic girl who is his subordinate doesn't offer much in terms of themes. If you want someone on this theme end, Kaguya would make for a far more better choice given her status.

Besides, she said fan trauma was fun to watch :P I bite ya know.

She! :upset:
you bite indeed :sad:

And so I take it you just enjoy killing the fans who do care for a certain pairing? I think I am pairing you and Dann as the evil, depressing dudes. EDDs!

While the results might be fun to watch (:p), thats not my intention - just a side result. I just take what the show offers and analyze it the way i see it. I pride myself at being fairly objective with such things, but this is little besides arm waving :p

[Lugia_Tsuyu]

Well, right now...I'm more worry and depress about if there will Turn 3 this week than who's going to end up with him. I sure hope they don't delay it because of the last six minutes of the episode. We still got to watch the first 17 - 18 minute also.

[Narona]

I'll ignore the 1st Q and pretend you never typed it. >.>
You'll get your VillettaxOugi, God willing. Probably X1999 style too ;P

But Evil Var and Dann have said that Villetta or Ougi could die :upset: .

I'm under stress since that XD.

[Dann of Thursday]

LelouchXC.C. happening and not ending badly would be incredibly surprising. Surprsing in a good way for me, but I'm not counting on it.

But Evil Var and Dann have said that Villetta or Ougi could die :upset: .

I'm under stress since that XD.

They could or they could not. Maybe they'll be the only pairing to get a happy ending. Ougi needs to get out of jail before anything else happens.

[Nilie]

She! :upset:
you bite indeed :sad: AYAH!! GOMEN! Typoe! I swearz!! I said them @ 1st coz I rly wasn't sure. >D My bad, I should have know since you're so cool. Must be your misleading choice of icon :P
Gomen m(_ _)m Oh and I meant, I bite the bait. :P

[KrimzonStriker]

Can we go over exactly what they have set up, in list form?

-Being Zero

-Rebellion against Britannia thus committing to an all out war when last I check Shirely was a pacifist.

-Avenging mother by eliminating his own family and committing other horrible acts as far as the average Britannian citizen is concerned, which is what Shirely is.

-Killing her father

-erasing her mind of him

-involvement in his world nearly breaks her mentally

-pulling away from his normal school life

-is more prone to involving himself with women who can accept that other part of his life

-love is not the same as regret, hence why the kiss at the end of 12 was condemned so throughly in both 13 in Suzaku's speech about using the wrong means, and Mao in 14. In many respects, his regret ended whatever love she had for him at the end of 14, as he felt that was the best he could do for her in that regard.

-Lelouch is an idiot when it comes to love, and he basically has no time to bother working on it unless it's working alongside him.

Need anything else?

[Nilie]

But Evil Var and Dann have said that Villetta or Ougi could die :upset: .

I'm under stress since that XD.

I edited that post to clarify I though that might happen too XD You do know the story of Sorata and Arashi right? They have a pretty sad ending but it really is beautiful, and then in the crossover series TRC, by CLAMP they get a much better, funny, totally not as dramatic outcome in another life ;D Don't worry! Its still love! Even though it's ridiculously Romeo and Juliet-esque in its cliche' ness:P
They haz teh hintz in teh OP1 of R2 *hint hint* Canon-ness in absolute :P I can assure you that I won't go ShirleyLulu on you and make it sound like I think she's end up back with Orange-kun of the desert!

[Skyfall]

AYAH!! GOMEN! Typoe! I swearz!! I said them @ 1st coz I rly wasn't sure. >D My bad, I should have know since you're so cool. Must be your misleading choice of icon :P
Gomen m(_ _)m Oh and I meant, I bite the bait. :P

Hey, no worries :heh: (though i do list my gender in my profile). Can't say this is the first time either someone mistakes my icon ... you see - i watch shows of particularly every genre there is, and my avatar/sig choices reflect that. (Actually one wouldn't think of me as a mecha/action fan from the ones i commonly use). Its not rare for me to wander in to some mecha section with what looks like an out-of-place avatar/sig :heh:

LelouchXC.C. happening and not ending badly would be incredibly surprising. Surprsing in a good way for me, but I'm not counting on it.


Exactly :) I would gladly see a happy end for those two; they have been through enough to deserve one. Whether i am holding my breath for that to happen is another matter though.

[Dann of Thursday]

@KS: She could forgive him for who he is and accept all that makes him who he is.

[Blue_Mercy]

Yes, i am fairly sure that him ending up with half Britannic girl who is his subordinate doesn't offer much in terms of themes. If you want someone on this theme end, Kaguya would make for a far more better choice given her status.

Come on, I give you a solid point and you throw back Kaguya? Might as well throw back the Empress of China. I thought you didn't care who Lelouch ended up with, but you seem to be digging in your feet on this one.

Poor Shirley though, I wonder if she'll end up serving a purpose other than getting used. I highly doubt it, makes me wonder if she should have been the blonde.:heh: (sorry had to toss in a blonde joke)

[KrimzonStriker]

@KS: She could forgive him for who he is and accept all that makes him who he is.

The day pigs fly Dann, if she did she would have to be made of stronger stuff then the Shirely we all know and some of us have come to love, and the Shirely we all know had a mental breakdown which was more the far greater likelihood then and still is now >_>

[Skyfall]

Come on, I give you a solid point and you throw back Kaguya? Might as well throw back the Empress of China. I thought you didn't care who Lelouch ended up with, but you seem to be digging in your feet on this one.


No, it wasn't all that solid even though the idea was good. You think the eleven populace would think much of Zero hitting it off with a Britannian student ? I don't think so :) I don't care whom he ends up with, and i am not going to assign what i consider to be non-existent symbolism to prove my point either. If you think Kallen x Lelouch would actually be underlining something in the theme of "liberating Japan" as in Britannian x (half)Japanese ... we can only agree to disagree. Its not an issue either of them care about, thus the relationship wouldn't be able to serve as symbolic.

The day pigs fly Dann, if she did she would have to be made of stronger stuff then the Shirely we all know and some of us have come to love, and the Shirely we all know had a mental breakdown which was more the far greater likelihood then and still is now >_>

Said Shirley also pulled the trigger on someone who was about to unmask Lelouch though. She more or less had accepted what had happened right before Lelouch geassed her. Bottom line is - she loves Lelouch, and by the looks if it that went a bit further than mere crush. No doubt it would be quite painful (for both) if she has to go through the same revelations again (which i think she will have to) ... and i expect her to arrive at the same resolution eventually.

[Nilie]

Hey, no worries :heh: (though i do list my gender in my profile).

Exactly :) I would gladly see a happy end for those two; they have been through enough to deserve one. Whether i am holding my breath for that to happen is another matter though.

Didn't check the profile >D conekshun slooo, couldn't bother, and I thought I'd show in the sidebar anyway if listed at all ;P And I envy you for not holding your breath, 'cause I am holding my breath 25 mins an episode in this show, it's just that awesome and entertaining.

[Narona]

I edited that post to clarify I though that might happen too XD You do know the story of Sorata and Arashi right? They have a pretty sad ending but it really is beautiful, and then in the crossover series TRC, by CLAMP they get a much better, funny, totally not as dramatic outcome in another life ;D Don't worry! Its still love! Even though it's ridiculously Romeo and Juliet-esque in its cliche' ness:P
They haz teh hintz in teh OP1 of R2 *hint hint* Canon-ness in absolute :P I can assure you that I won't go ShirleyLulu on you and make it sound like I think she's end up back with Orange-kun of the desert!
No I don't ;__; ...

And I don't want them to die :heh: .

[lightbringer]

What's wrong with Kaguya anyway? She has enough puppy admiration for Zero to overlook the fact that he's a Brittanian prince (she's bound to find out if they marry), and at least she'd get more screen time. And it seems she has some character, at least when it's not about Zero. Lelouch is not thinking rationally here, marrying her would serve towards uniting the Elevens behind him even more, and he'd have some claim to the "King of Elevens" title that he's saddled with now :D

'cause I am holding my breath 25 mins an episode in this show, it's just that awesome and entertaining.
QFT. Guilty as charged, unfortunately.

[Nilie]

No I don't ;__; ...

And I don't want them to die :heh: .

*hugs you* No worries. As I said, it's more dramatical drama than you can shake a spear at. But it's really beautiful :3 At least that's my guess. But you really have nothing to worry about, you've already got a beautiful official NewType Doujin in which they're getting married >D

[Dann of Thursday]

The day pigs fly Dann, if she did she would have to be made of stronger stuff then the Shirely we all know and some of us have come to love, and the Shirely we all know had a mental breakdown which was more the far greater likelihood then and still is now >_>

They can make her stronger through the proper scenarios. The writers can do it if they choose to.

[KrimzonStriker]

Said Shirley also pulled the trigger on someone who was about to unmask Lelouch though. She more or less had accepted what had happened right before Lelouch geassed her. Bottom line is - she loves Lelouch, and by the looks if it that went a bit further than mere crush. No doubt it would be quite painful (for both) if she has to go through the same revelations again (which i think she will have to) ... and i expect her to arrive at the same resolution eventually.

Said Shirely was also about to blow off Lelouch's head and commit suicide as well, Said Shirely was also lamenting about all the things that had happened and how they had affected her and what she did. Bottom line, sometimes love isn't enough on its own, and by same resolution you mean go :eyespin: like last time? :heh:

They can make her stronger through the proper scenarios. The writers can do it if they choose to.

Might as well toss out Shirely's whole character and start from scratch then. I thought character development had already been wrapped up in Season 1 according to the staff? :rolleyes:

[Nilie]

They can make her stronger through the proper scenarios. The writers can do it if they choose to.
And God can totally make C.C mortal again and Lelouch fall Oh so MADLY in wuvz with her, and Orange-kun could grow wings and a cherry flavor, if He choses to do so :P

Lol, just teasing ya. Srsly guys. I'm off now. Laterz in few dys!



QFT. Guilty as charged, unfortunately.

Lol ;) I try to take breathers during the OP and ED if it's not the first time I see and hear it >D But I end up trying to hold in SQUEEz of excitement instead, 'caus emy fangirl war cry can be heard at quite the freaking ditance :P

[Skyfall]

Said Shirely was also about to blow off Lelouch's head and commit suicide as well, Said Shirely was also lamenting about all the things that had happened and how they had affected her and what she did. Bottom line, sometimes love isn't enough on its own, and by same resolution you mean go :eyespin: like last time? :heh:


Courtesy of Mao ;)

Of course she lamented and brooded over her recent revelations. I would, you would, any human would. But the extreme solutions she arrived to was thanks to some CC obsessed nutcase with mindreading powers nudging her in that direction.

[KrimzonStriker]

Courtesy of Mao ;)

Courtesy of what she herself was thinking as well ;)

[Skyfall]

Courtesy of what she herself was thinking as well ;)

Not really; those solutions were not ones she spawned on her own, but due to Mao's influence on her when she already was in less than favorable state.

... and on that note, i feel too sleepy to continue. Slow down on the posting, i don't want to read through 10 page backlog tomorrow :heh:

[KrimzonStriker]

Not really; those solutions were not ones she spawned on her own, but due to Mao's influence on her when she already was in less than favorable state.

... and on that note, i feel too sleepy to continue. Slow down on the posting, i don't want to read through 10 page backlog tomorrow :heh:

Rrrreeeeaallllllyyyyyy.... hmmm... well then, let's go over it shall we?

Forced Lelouch to kiss her knowing he had too out of sympathy for her depression and loss, provided by Suzaku and the interaction right after the funeral. Check

Lelouch was responsible for her father's murder. Check

She killed someone in order to protect him despite who he was and what he had done. Somewhat check because she didn't know Villeta was alive but same effect anyway. What the hell, check.

Am I missing anything? :cool:

[Skyfall]

Last post before i retreat to my tomb.


Yes indeed - she did all of that ... doesn't really take away from my point she would accept Lelouch for what he is though in the end, and he wouldn't condemn her for it. She already sort of has, if she regains her memory she will remember that as well ... though she will have to do with the issue he actually erased her memory, but i don't think they will make big deal of it.

[Dann of Thursday]

Said Shirely was also about to blow off Lelouch's head and commit suicide as well, Said Shirely was also lamenting about all the things that had happened and how they had affected her and what she did. Bottom line, sometimes love isn't enough on its own, and by same resolution you mean go :eyespin: like last time? :heh:

Might as well toss out Shirely's whole character and start from scratch then. I thought character development had already been wrapped up in Season 1 according to the staff? :rolleyes:

Well, that was partly because Mao was screwing with her head. Had she been left alone, I doubt she would have thought of such extremes. The writers could come up with some excuse if they wanted to.

I don't know, did they? What of C.C. and Kallen then?

And God can totally make C.C mortal again and Lelouch fall Oh so MADLY in wuvz with her, and Orange-kun could grow wings and a cherry flavor, if He choses to do so :P

Depends on the sort of god the Code Geass universe has. Yes that is possible, but highly unlikey honestly. The other is just silly.



By the way, by Shirley remembering do we mean she remembers everything that Lelouch told her to forget? I don't think that is possible unless she had her memory rewritten like Lelouch and that overwrites Lelouch's order.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Hmmm... Backlogs... How, familiar...

Well that's probably since the only 'special' thing she has/had is/was her stalkerish love for Lelouche. Appart from that we haven't seen much of her. She might have been a more interesting character if she had a more older-sister like attitude to hide her feelings (Meaning she would be a lot more persistent nagging him about whatever he was doing/not doing). But I guess for that to happen there was way too less (in school)time reserved for such things.


Stalkerish is such a bad word.

She's just a normal girl with a normal crush.

Cute don't cut it in Lelouch's world, she was downright pathetic when she tried to step in it last time >_>

What, You can't be NORMAL anymore :eyebrow: ?

Don't forget, the school life is also part of Lelouch's world.


If he'll hang out with CC too much he'll end up losing it and becoming (an even bigger) massmurdering-maniac ;)

Technically, he was the one who said it was the way to do things, C.C didn't feed him ideas.


The problem there is that no such person exists in the show. The closest we have is Milly, but unless she does something, its not going to happen. Shirley is more a stalker/supercrush than love. Understandably, that can change but as of now it hasn't and there's only so much time for it too happen.


Oh come one, She's still able to hold normal conversations with him am I right :eyebrow: ?


Hello, GEASS THREAD!

My name is Reiji Tabibito, and I am a newcomer here...kinda.

Anyway, on with the posting.

Oh, and:

ALL HAIL Britannia ME!!!

:joke:

Oh crud... =_=





2nd best, in my opinion...Lulu/Nunnally is EWWW....

If all goes well, there's what Rollo is for...



CC may be in the lead, but there's no indication whatsoever that Lulu even LIKES CC - whereas with Shirley, we have an admission from Le Douche himself.



Hey, he definitely likes her enough to say all those mushy stuff :p


QFT. Lulu needs a NORMAL GIRL, DAMMIT!

He needs a girl period.




And yes, Geass fans, if you couldn't tell, I am a Lulu/Shirley shipper.

...but not so much that I'd rabidly attack anyone else.


Never would have guessed :nod:


Oh great. A Cadian. That's all this thread needed. :rolleyes:

Dude, this place was infiltrated long before siscon over there showed up :p


Not at all! Going back to "normal" as if it all didn't stain him? If he does go back to a normal life, its exactly because he is stained ... thats what he is fighting for after all - a better place of a world. If he would go back to normal life and "back" to Shirley it would come together with all his past baggage, him having been responsible for the events where her father lost life, her acknowledging the fact and both of them coming to terms with it. Actually the later is likely to happen one way or another even without romance involved.

He wouldn't go back to the beginning like a clean slate (And neither would Shirley), but he would turn a new page indeed.


What he plans to do after all of this is pretty much up in the air though.

:twitch: :twitch: :twitch:

How the heck do you keep saying things that I wanted to say :uhoh:


I've had run ins with you guys in the recent past (see backlog of the link in my sig). You're an interesting bunch, to say the least. The guys around here are really gonna have fun now. :heh:

You're making it sound as if we weren't having fun before :p


It's about as good as we can get from MOST guys, who generally have fewer issues than Lulu.


OMG! Reiji's right!

:uhoh:




From what I see what Lelouche felt towards her is not love but guilt. "After everything is over, you..." was whats he said (and before in S1 as well).
He probably is planning to die :\ to atone it.

Well, obviously that won't make anybody happy...

Skyfall's scenario is too perfect to be anything, but what will happen. I wish I had thought of this early and saved the trouble of getting my hopes up. And Shirley pretty much always had better chances than anyone else's. People disregarded her because she was a minor character, when it's clear that didn't matter.


You know, if I may Dann... Are you perhaps forcefully convicing yourself of the worst possible scenario...

... So that you could be pleasantly surprised when it doesn't happen :)?

[Dann of Thursday]

You know, if I may Dann... Are you perhaps forcefully convicing yourself of the worst possible scenario...

... So that you could be pleasantly surprised when it doesn't happen :)?

Precisely. If I convince myself that what I would like is not going to happen, than hopefully I can accept the other pairings without letting it affect me too much in the end. And if things actually go the way I hope, then that is just great.

[KrimzonStriker]

Last post before i retreat to my tomb.


Yes indeed - she did all of that ... doesn't really take away from my point she would accept Lelouch for what he is though in the end, and he wouldn't condemn her for it. She already sort of has, if she regains her memory she will remember that as well ... though she will have to do with the issue he actually erased her memory, but i don't think they will make big deal of it.

This isn't about condemning her, it was about condemning himself in that respect. For her part, it was only natural for her to react the way she did, and not in a good. If her character remains the same I don't see her being able to do that, and massive changes to make her suitable in order to react to it would basically require rewriting her completely which would be a fatal error in my opinion for all you Shirely loving fans.

Precisely. If I convince myself that what I would like is not going to happen, than hopefully I can accept the other pairings without letting it affect me too much in the end. And if things actually go the way I hope, then that is just great.

Great for you maybe, what about the rest of us? :rolleyes:

[Dann of Thursday]

Great for you maybe, what about the rest of us? :rolleyes:

You could always join me.;)

[Chaos2Frozen]

Euphie's personnality resembles shirley's one (innocent and kind). And we know that Lelouch had a crush on Euphie.

It seems he likes that type of girl.

Don't forget Nunnally...


... I mean the personality profile fits her too.

What happened with Euphie should send a message if you go by that regard >_>


Accident, remember?

And beside, he geassed her already.


Traumatized fanbase is good. Its fun to watch :p


The hate would be annoying though... And I'll have my work cut out for me defending...

A person that could ending up freeing Japan getting together with the Japanese girl main character doesn't tie in to the story or themes? Are you sure?:twitch:

Well yeah, especially if his plan is-

"Today japan, tomorrow, the WORLD!"


-In which, being (half) Japanese doesn't really hold any advantage.

And besides, I thought that's what Kaguya wants?


Great for you maybe, what about the rest of us? :rolleyes:

You should be happy :)

It means that he doesn't truely believe what he has been saying :)

You could always join me.;)

No thanks, being Pessimistic is your style now :p

I've made my bed in the "Pro-C.C" and "Quit-bullying-Shirely!".

[Dann of Thursday]

You should be happy :)

It means that he doesn't truely believe what he has been saying :)

No thanks, being Pessimistic is your style now :p

I've made my bed in the "Pro-C.C" and "Quit-bullying-Shirely!".

I believe things are going to go badly, but hope otherwise.

That's fine. We'll just have to see who benefits in the end though.

[Witacume]

Damn it all. I been thinking this for awhile. Let me start this off with I am Kallen X Lelouch fan. Yes I am know i am a bit hopeless. What bother me the most is the "Masquerade" is always played during Shirley X Lelouch time periods. It seems to me if there was to be a happy ending it would have to be Shirley. Both Kallen and C.C. has too much baggage on them. While Shirley is definitely the most optimistic of the three. Lulu is going through a bunch of emotional and mental agony. Obviously C.C. And Kallen are able to help now since they know what is happening to Lelouch.

But After all is said and done I think the "Masquerade" song hits on the ball when it says "Your My Destiny" Obviously even after the mind wipe Shirley still has feelings for Lelouch. It is almost like the red string of fate has attach them together. This theory hits the fan if it is not a happy ending. In the end Lelouch needs someone normal to go back to not someone with so much baggage.

Well for my personal Theory is that Suzaku will kill Shirley because of the live command as Shirley tries to shoot him. Shirley does this because She is trying to save Lulu from being shoot by Suzaku. This scenario would just be awesome! Because LULU command does come to haunt them both! (and i have would have hope still!)

In the end if i were a betting man my first new pick is

(Power Rankings Week 1)

1.Shirley: She gets the first pick because of the newest information available to us. The use of Masquerade song again. (I hate this one) There's too much ideas of Destiny between them at the moment to be just ignored.

2. C.C.: This is the easy number 2 pick. The main Heroine and the hero together. yet it loses out at the moment as Shirley barely beats her out because their has not been any real Song with the both of them. (I think this one is the most likely to happen but at the moment the power rankings will go elsewere)

3. Kallen: The dark horse. We have to see what the producers do with the kiss scene. Episode 2 adds the importance to Kallen. As they will have more scenes together and Kallen can now support him. they also have from Season one the Song "stories" together. (which can be account to Shirley as well UGH!!!!!)

4. Kaguya: Just for fun. never count out the LOLI'S!

5. The rest: nothing really anything of real importance at the moment.

[Dann of Thursday]

I agree about that song. It irritates me whenever I hear it since it does seem to imply that whole destiny thing with those two.

[Var]

I... may run out of space to fit this in one post. :heh: Yes, I read everything, yes, I'm insane.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=1506226#post1506226

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1507914&postcount=5169

:heh:


I remember those... I blame ashlay. Now... *dons cape of evil!*

I suspect that the fanbase for a relationship between Kallen and Lelouch would be smaller if Kallen were merely average looking (Was it necessary to have Kallen's bust size as large as it is? Yes. -_-). Not that I can complain about Kallen's character, as it is quite aesthetically drawn....

This is Anime. Everything is aesthetically pleasing, I could say the same for C.C., Shirley, Milly, etc. People may be attracted to her appearance, but most are more attracted to her character archetype.

Oh great. A Cadian. That's all this thread needed. :rolleyes:

Agreed.


Second, we know that, for the most part, Karen has feelings towards Zero, not Lulu. This is evident by her own behavior in which she is HIGHLY duplicitous towards Zero and Lulu - she treats them, two aspects of the same person, in COMPLETELY opposite ways. Plus, if Lulu/Karen were to happen, it'd be a Dating the Boss scenario - which doesn't end well 9/10 times.


Her behaviour was originally towards two people she thought were completely different and acted completely different around her. That ended in 25 and into Season 2, where she discovered the truth and now told Lelouch to prove that he was infact the man she followed.

Your dating sim analogy is a moot point at best.

The guys around here are really gonna have fun now. :heh:

Oh you bet. :heh:

Now... time for Sky!


I can see a way to write a Shirley ending, and i would say its overall a pretty common storytelling device. It also needs separation with CC as a perquisite, which i also find quite likely to happen.

I can see a way to write a Duck ending, doesn't mean it will happen. :p Shirley is too much of a sidelines character to be randomly thrown into the mix, especially since there's not a chance, by any stretch of the imagination, that she'd be useful unlike say Kallen or C.C.. If anything she'd be another weight for Lelouch.

Can it happen? Yes. Do I think it likely? No. She is the innocence element in the show but that can only survive for so long.


[mussing]
All it takes is some interactions between Shirley and Lelouch through the series (not necessarily a lot), her regaining her memory in some way (which i think is likely to happen), which Lelouch is going to angst over some, Shirley will come to gripes with it and let Lelouch know that she forgives him <insert more mushy speech> and that she would always think of him as Lulu and would be waiting for him <more mush> before Lelouch has to leave to take his fight to the emperor.

At the end of it all CC would have to "die"/leave (if the introduction of emperor's god slaying temple in his bedroom is not foreshadowing i don't know what is) and when Lulu starts blabbering about promising to stay with her she would say he has fulfilled that promise and that now he needs to get his behind back to Japan, as someone is waiting for him there and he owes that person as much"
[/rant]

Barring supernatural intervention (See: C.C.) the Geass are ultimates. Unresistable and cannot be overturned. If they could it'd be a massive cop out, and the only reason I tolerate the one with Lulu is because C.C. is a witch and that deus ex machina is forgivable.

Now here's the interesting part. Lelouch's best friend, Suzaku, couldn't get over Euphies death, a close friend, and decided that the dead were more valuable than the living friend. Shirley, on the other hand, lost her father and upon rediscovering that Lelouch was Zero, started to fear him. And we expect her, a flimsy little girl, to get over her father's death in cold blood? Then we'll also ignore that there's something very fishy going on at the academy, where no one seems to notice the missing Nunally. Which is, by no stretch, a big detraction from everyone except Kallen and C.C. who know about Nunally.

The second part; I agree about the foreshadowing, but I do not think Lelouch will be in Japan all that long. Or at least the story's focus. At some point, Lelouch is going to have to choose Lelouch Lamperouge or Zero, he cannot have both forever. And since Zero leads to Nunally...


Does this mean i expect Shirley to die ? Not at all. But plot twists are called that because they are unpredictable. There are some things i am fairly certain about, but i certainly can't read the writer's mind, thus all i can do is speculate with the knowledge available to me.

I could see Shirley die, but I do not expect it. The large battle that will soon befall Japan may become sullied with innocent blood, but I don't know who's.


Personally i consider endings that "leave things to viewer's imagination" an incredibly weak form of storytelling. Its the author's job to write an ending, not mine. And i by large prefer a sense of conclusion that is not just made up in my head.

Agreed. Damn... meteors. *runs*

Saying a show goes from one of the greatest things to a pile of poo because a pairing you dislike happened doesn't really make for the most objective criticism ever :p

Agreed. Argh!!!

Main heroine doesn't necessarily translate to the final coupling, and she isn't being focused on because, besides being geassed, she is not particularly important to the current focus point of the story. That doesn't mean she is not important to Lelouch though (he himself says otherwise), and going that road would have rather good thematical material.

Everyone in the student council is important to Lelouch, though. Also, the point that she is not relevant to the story is a point I cannot see changing. The plot will become darker and bloodier as it progresses, and her innocent background existance will lessen and lessen.

Like I said, I could see it happen as an end, but I do not believe it will occur due to the aformentioned reasons and others.



Dreadful is an opinion, not an argument against the pairing :p. If CC dies (which is the only way i can see Shirley happening) then she is obviously "out of the picture". And Nunnaly doesn't exactly present an obstacle for Lulu on the romance side. Also, she is not going to be stuck in that chair forever. Her legs not having healed up until now is a silly plot device anyway, but never mind that. Her blindness is psychological. Want to place a bet she opens her eyes before the season ends ? ;)

C.C. could very well have closed up her heart and not need to die for another pairing to happen. She could very well just go to Mao like she promised him, I acknoledge that, or she could tell Lelouch to be happy with an actual human. :heh:

Of course he is "being pulled away from his normal life". Do not forget though why he is fighting in the first place. Its not because he likes to, but because he wasn't satisfied with the situation in the "normal life". He may be chosing options that are not really harmless for his "normal life", but to better that life is why he is doing it in the first place. He won't be fighting forever, and, unless dead, will come back to this "normal life" eventually.

Except, at some point his hands will be too sullied with blood for him to return to someone as innocent as Shirley or to 'normal life'. This is, personally, one of the reasons I don't see it happening. And, not to mention, that we're ignoring that his normal life is centered around Nunally.


Kallen x Lelouch romance has below zero relevance to the story or the themes touched thus far, as it wouldn't tie with any of them on any level. Not that it has to, but if you are looking for a relationship that would be pure fanservice among the three, this would be it.

You sure? They have very similar stories and motivations, they are both fighting against their bloodline, and, in general, they both fit into breaking free of destiny theme that defines a good bit of this story. And then Blue Mercy said more:

A person that could ending up freeing Japan getting together with the Japanese girl main character doesn't tie in to the story or themes? Are you sure?:twitch:

Yes, Nunnaly is his primary concern indeed. That doesn't mean he is going to throw away the opportunity if he has one to have a normal life once this all is over himself. Provided he makes it through.

He threw away his rebellion for Nunally, and that rebellion was far more important than his normal life. As you said before, he fights to change his 'normal life'. Just how much importance does his normal life have, then, if he throws away the means to changing it for Nunally?


As far as i am concerned she has no chance at all, period. While she has more interactions with him than Shirley (does she really ? I am rewatching season 1 right now and it really doesn't seem that way ...but for the sake of argument lets assume she does), but those are not really something i would see as foundation for romance. Vast majority of it is work related. Thematic wise i prefer CC as well though :) Lets see if it ends up in anything besides tragedy though ;)

Nonsense. :p

But Evil Var and Dann have said that Villetta or Ougi could die :upset: .

I'm under stress since that XD.

Uh oh! Here comes evil Var! *whooooooshhh!*


Exactly :) I would gladly see a happy end for those two; they have been through enough to deserve one. Whether i am holding my breath for that to happen is another matter though.

Just because they have endured enough doesn't make them deserve anything more than the next person. I'd say plenty of people have endured more than her and recieved lesser ends.

If you think Kallen x Lelouch would actually be underlining something in the theme of "liberating Japan" as in Britannian x (half)Japanese ... we can only agree to disagree. Its not an issue either of them care about, thus the relationship wouldn't be able to serve as symbolic.

You're chalking to much to the idea that their actual romance has to do something with the underlining themes. Their general interactions are already doing that, with issues of truth, breaking the chains of fate, and their reasons for fighting. Their romance would be more a finalization on those points then some other meaning, because, frankly, none of the pairings have any underlining relevance to the themes of this story since its not a romance story.

Heck, even SuzakuxEuphemia had little relevance to the underlining themes and it still 'happened'.


Said Shirley also pulled the trigger on someone who was about to unmask Lelouch though. She more or less had accepted what had happened right before Lelouch geassed her. Bottom line is - she loves Lelouch, and by the looks if it that went a bit further than mere crush. No doubt it would be quite painful (for both) if she has to go through the same revelations again (which i think she will have to) ... and i expect her to arrive at the same resolution eventually.

Do you choose your friend/crush over some stranger who would threaten them? Even if they did something bad? Most people would chose their friend and try to understand why what happened, happened. And, I'd argue that after getting royal mind-screwed by Mao, that she wasn't in a state of even thinking straight. Lelouch simply managed to convince her otherwise, there's no guarantee that she's forgiven him entirely.

Not really; those solutions were not ones she spawned on her own, but due to Mao's influence on her when she already was in less than favorable state.

Thanks to Mao she managed to actually confront Lelouch.


Oh come one, She's still able to hold normal conversations with him am I right :eyebrow: ?

No. That's just wrong. Up to 25, she was afraid of him and kept her distance. After the one year time gap, where many things don't make sense, she is talking to him. However, many things do not make sense, like, for example, the abscence of Nunally and no one seemingly noticing... especially Milly.

[Chaos2Frozen]

I believe things are going to go badly, but hope otherwise.

That's fine. We'll just have to see who benefits in the end though.

There there now :nod:


No. That's just wrong. Up to 25, she was afraid of him and kept her distance. After the one year time gap, where many things don't make sense, she is talking to him. However, many things do not make sense, like, for example, the abscence of Nunally and no one seemingly noticing... especially Milly.

IF you're refering to her AFTER the Mao incident, then fine.

If not, I say you're overexgerrating as even in the funeral scene, and plenty of scenes in previous episodes before, Shirley is perfectly capable of talking to Lelouch.

Normally.

[Dann of Thursday]

C.C. could very well have closed up her heart and not need to die for another pairing to happen. She could very well just go to Mao like she promised him, I acknoledge that, or she could tell Lelouch to be happy with an actual human. :heh:

Or she could end up with Lelouch in some sort of ending. I know you don't really acknowledge such a thing and I don't want to argue, but it's possible if they choose to do so.

And C.C. pretty much seems to be human. Just one that isn't normal. There apparently was some magazine that confirmed she was originally a normal human, but I am wary to accept such a thing since it was a ways back.

[Var]

IF you're refering to her AFTER the Mao incident, then fine.

If not, I say you're overexgerrating as even in the funeral scene, and plenty of scenes in previous episodes before, Shirley is perfectly capable of talking to Lelouch.

Normally.

You mean before she found out the truth? That's an argumentative fallacy if I've ever seen one.

Chronologically:
~ Her father dies.
~ Villeta introduces the possibility after the funeral.
~ Eventually ends up at the battle sceen where she discovers Lelouch's identity.
~ After shooting Villeta, she does not return to school.
~ Shirley cannot believe it, but begins stalking Lelouch trying to confront him. Writes the note that she can hardly manage to write, while crying.
~ The plot moves to Narita: Mao
~ Lelouch breaks through to Shirley but wipes her memories before anything can happen.
~ She becomes a new person.
~ Finds note.
~ Fear.

Where did the normal conversations come into this?

Dann: That is also a possibility. My point was concerning an ending without C.C. romance, so there was no reason for me to list it.

[Dann of Thursday]

You mean before she found out the truth? That's an argumentative fallacy if I've ever seen one.

Chronologically:
~ Her father dies.
~ Villeta introduces the possibility after the funeral.
~ Eventually ends up at the battle sceen where she discovers Lelouch's identity.
~ After shooting Villeta, she does not return to school.
~ Shirley cannot believe it, but begins stalking Lelouch trying to confront him. Writes the note that she can hardly manage to write, while crying.
~ The plot moves to Narita: Mao
~ Lelouch breaks through to Shirley but wipes her memories before anything can happen.
~ She becomes a new person.
~ Finds note.
~ Fear.

Where did the normal conversations come into this?

Dann: That is also a possibility. My point was concerning an ending without C.C. romance, so there was no reason for me to list it.

I'd have to agree that they didn't really have normal conversations at all that we saw. He was going shopping with her so they must have had a normal conversation at some point. I'm still waiting to see if she had her memory rewritten and whether that affects anything. She certainly didn't seem all that freaked out about Zero when that broadcast appeared.

My mistake on the other matter. I misinterpreted.

[Var]

I'd have to agree that they didn't really have normal conversations at all that we saw. He was going shopping with her so they must have had a normal conversation at some point. I'm still waiting to see if she had her memory rewritten and whether that affects anything. She certainly didn't seem all that freaked out about Zero when that broadcast appeared.

My mistake on the other matter. I misinterpreted.

Which I think furthers the idea that something's happened to the council members' memories. Which is why I don't count Shirley, she's like a fake-person right now, if you get my meaning.

It's fine, misinterpratations happen.

[Witacume]

You mean before she found out the truth? That's an argumentative fallacy if I've ever seen one.

Chronologically:
~ Her father dies.
~ Villeta introduces the possibility after the funeral.
~ Eventually ends up at the battle sceen where she discovers Lelouch's identity.
~ After shooting Villeta, she does not return to school.
~ Shirley cannot believe it, but begins stalking Lelouch trying to confront him. Writes the note that she can hardly manage to write, while crying.
~ The plot moves to Narita: Mao
~ Lelouch breaks through to Shirley but wipes her memories before anything can happen.
~ She becomes a new person.
~ Finds note.
~ Fear.

Where did the normal conversations come into this?

Dann: That is also a possibility. My point was concerning an ending without C.C. romance, so there was no reason for me to list it.

This is exactly why my personal Theory is that Suzaku will kill Shirley as she finds out Lulu is Zero, and in attempt to save him from Suzaku she panics and Shoots Suzaku and Suzaku going off on his live command Shoots Shirley to Live. Thus Shirley dies. It seems crazy i know but i like Crazy!

[KrimzonStriker]

You could always join me.;)

That'd be funny if I didn't think I may have already done so once or twice >_>

Woot for the power of the Krimzon/Var combo!!! :bow:

[Dann of Thursday]

Which I think furthers the idea that something's happened to the council members' memories. Which is why I don't count Shirley, she's like a fake-person right now, if you get my meaning.

It's fine, misinterpratations happen.

I agree that something happened with them, but it hasn't been made clear what yet. I'm curious as to whether having her memory messed with again had any effect on the memories Lelouch blocked. Or did he erase them entirely?

This is exactly why my personal Theory is that Suzaku will kill Shirley as she finds out Lulu is Zero, and in attempt to save him from Suzaku she panics and Shoots Suzaku and Suzaku going off on his live command Shoots Shirley to Live. Thus Shirley dies. It seems crazy i know but i like Crazy!

I could see her taking a bullet for Lelouch in some sort of situation, but we would need to have a lot happen for such a scenario to occur.

[ShadowSongx]

This is exactly why my personal Theory is that Suzaku will kill Shirley as she finds out Lulu is Zero, and in attempt to save him from Suzaku she panics and Shoots Suzaku and Suzaku going off on his live command Shoots Shirley to Live. Thus Shirley dies. It seems crazy i know but i like Crazy!

As crazy as that sounds I sort of like it. There was mention that Suzakus' live command would eventually lead to disaster for Lelouch.

[Dann of Thursday]

As crazy as that sounds I sort of like it. There was mention that Suzakus' live command would eventually lead to disaster for Lelouch.

It would also fit if that whole thing about Suzaku doing something he would regret occured and it would also affect Lelouch. Of course, I don't know if Suzaku really gives a damn about her or the council anymore.

[Dann of Thursday]

Are you talking to me ashlay?

[ShadowSongx]

It would also fit if that whole thing about Suzaku doing something he would regret occured and it would also affect Lelouch. Of course, I don't know if Suzaku really gives a damn about her or the council anymore.

What does Suzaku give a damn about now...?

It seems hes crazed about having revenge, but instead lets him live... huh?!
Looks like he just wanted a cheap and easy way to get higher in ranks to supposedly do something fromt he "inside" yet he hasn't done shit for a year.

[ashlay]

Are you talking to me ashlay?
nope, I posted in the wrong thread. >_<

my mistake, carry on.

What does Suzaku give a damn about now...?

It seems hes crazed about having revenge, but instead lets him live... huh?!
Looks like he just wanted a cheap and easy way to get higher in ranks to supposedly do something fromt he "inside" yet he hasn't done shit for a year.
still watching to find out actually...

all we can say for certainty is: not japan. >_>

[Chaos2Frozen]

You mean before she found out the truth? That's an argumentative fallacy if I've ever seen one.

Chronologically:
~ Her father dies.
~ Villeta introduces the possibility after the funeral.
~ Eventually ends up at the battle sceen where she discovers Lelouch's identity.
~ After shooting Villeta, she does not return to school.
~ Shirley cannot believe it, but begins stalking Lelouch trying to confront him. Writes the note that she can hardly manage to write, while crying.
~ The plot moves to Narita: Mao
~ Lelouch breaks through to Shirley but wipes her memories before anything can happen.
~ She becomes a new person.
~ Finds note.
~ Fear.

Where did the normal conversations come into this?



Normal converstation is like the one he had with her during Student Council meeting in episode 3. Normal conversation like the one he has with her over the phone in episode 2. THAT kind of normal conversation. Normal, is the sense that it is a conversation that happens naturally.

Something that isn't possible if she was stalkerish :rolleyes:

And yes, before the Mao incident. Why? Because she's a normal girl. What? She can't be allowed to be afraid and confuse? Even Kallen reacted the same way :rolleyes:

[Var]

Normal converstation is like the one he had with her during Student Council meeting in episode 3. Normal conversation like the one he has with her over the phone in episode 2. THAT kind of normal conversation. Normal, is the sense that it is a conversation that happens naturally.

Something that isn't possible if she was stalkerish :rolleyes:

And yes, before the Mao incident. Why? Because she's a normal girl. What? She can't be allowed to be afraid and confuse? Even Kallen reacted the same way :rolleyes:

Wow... you missed the entire point of this conversation then. No one is calling her a stalker in any serious sense, just that she is stalker-like in how she follows Lulu. The entire point of what we're talking about now is about how she changed once her father died.

She no longer talks with Lelouch normally, as such you cannot and should not, use past events without taking that into account. That is an argumentative fallacy.

When did Kallen act that way for longer than 5 seconds?

[Chaos2Frozen]

Wow... you missed the entire point of this conversation then. No one is calling her a stalker in any serious sense, just that she is stalker-like in how she follows Lulu. The entire point of what we're talking about now is about how she changed once her father died.

No, my entire point was how I disprove of the use of the word stalkerish to decribe her in general.



She no longer talks with Lelouch normally, as such you cannot and should not, use past events without taking that into account. That is an argumentative fallacy.


Okay, fine if you say so.

And if she does talk to him normally now, as I'm sure it would be shown in the majority of episode three?



When did Kallen act that way for longer than 5 seconds?

Hey, Kallen ran away one year ago.

[Reiji Tabibito]

Lelouch was said to be getting a good ending. And he couldn't ask for anything better than Shirley is would provide the most stable and healthy environment for him.


Agreed. Shirley's the closest thing Lulu has to a normal girl in this series.

Karen? Probably not.

CC? HELL NO.


A foreseeable good end is not needed for a particular pairing to be popular. Popularity often comes down to how much people like a certain character type VS the other available options, how "fun" it is to watch said couple together and so forth. There are plenty of memorable couples in anime that didn't have the happiest of endings. Also, it is generally easier to write a memorable tragic/bittersweet end.

That's true: take AthrunxCagalli as proof - 99.999% of people who have an opinion about a pairing for either pairs them together, but the end of GSD has him with Meyrin...


Shirley won't die because she is considered a minor character. If she did, all other pairings would be over since he would consumed with guilt over both her and Euphie to consider anyone else.


<nods> Truth is, my expected outcome list goes like this:

1. Lulu stays single

2. Lulu/Shirley

3. No resolution - left to viewer

I think that Lulu may already be too far gone to consider a dating relationship considering what happened to Euphie. But if he's not...

Main heroine doesn't necessarily translate to the final coupling, and she isn't being focused on because, besides being geassed, she is not particularly important to the current focus point of the story. That doesn't mean she is not important to Lelouch though (he himself says otherwise), and going that road would have rather good thematical material.


Agreed here too.

The themes explored here could possibly be EPIC level material - redemption, love rekindled, and of course...the waiting heroine.

What happened with Euphie should send a message if you go by that regard >_>

Lulu doesn't have another Geass to throw at Shirley though.

Yes, Nunnaly is his primary concern indeed. That doesn't mean he is going to throw away the opportunity if he has one to have a normal life once this all is over himself. Provided he makes it through.

That's the other thing:

How do we know Lulu is going to survive all this?


Oh crud... =_=


Nice to see you too, Shellhead.





If all goes well, there's what Rollo is for...

That's true.






He needs a girl period.

QFT.





OMG! Reiji's right!

:uhoh:


Well, excuuuse me!


But After all is said and done I think the "Masquerade" song hits on the ball when it says "Your My Destiny" Obviously even after the mind wipe Shirley still has feelings for Lelouch. It is almost like the red string of fate has attach them together. This theory hits the fan if it is not a happy ending. In the end Lelouch needs someone normal to go back to not someone with so much baggage.



I agree about that song. It irritates me whenever I hear it since it does seem to imply that whole destiny thing with those two.


It COULD just be a song title, you know. Destiny may or may not have anything to do with it.


Her behaviour was originally towards two people she thought were completely different and acted completely different around her. That ended in 25 and into Season 2, where she discovered the truth and now told Lelouch to prove that he was infact the man she followed.

Your dating sim analogy is a moot point at best.

True...but old habits can die hard.


And it's Dating the Boss, not dating sim! Get it straight!

[Var]

No, my entire point was how I disprove of the use of the word stalkerish to decribe her in general.

Okay, fine if you say so.

And if she does talk to him normally now, as I'm sure it would be shown in the majority of episode three?

Hey, Kallen ran away one year ago.

But she was stalkerish after the truth was revealed to her, and before the mind wipe. She was quite clearly stalking Lelouch, which is why she ended up on the battlefield. After that, she never talked to nor really interacted with Lelouch. Her behaviour prior to that was that of a fangirl/crush and she did follow Lelouch around but in a friendly manner.

And that doesn't make you the least bit curious as to why? Or why no one questions where Nunally is? This returns to the point that something is amiss at the school and with the council members.

Kallen has clearly made up her mind.

[Chaos2Frozen]

But she was stalkerish after the truth was revealed to her, and before the mind wipe. She was quite clearly stalking Lelouch, which is why she ended up on the battlefield.

This is agree, though I would say it's a one-time incident.


After that, she never talked to nor really interacted with Lelouch. Her behaviour prior to that was that of a fangirl/crush and she did follow Lelouch around but in a friendly manner.

Agree, though I would use the word 'friend' instead of 'fangirl'.

My grip about this is words like 'stalker' and 'fangirl' just don't paint her in a good picture.

Especially if it's not severe to that point... Under ordinary circumstances.


And that doesn't make you the least bit curious as to why? Or why no one questions where Nunally is? This returns to the point that something is amiss at the school and with the council members.

It's not like I'm dismissing the problem.

To be honest, at the moment I'm just not thinking much about it. Compare to the other things that are currently happening.

Like Rollo.


Kallen has clearly made up her mind.

That's true, but still, once upon a time.

It's only fair that we give Shirely a chance to show she's change.

And it doesn't necessary have to be her not liking Lelouch.

[evil|plushie]

Of course Shirley is stalkerish after the truth was revealed to her. She just found out Lulu may be Zero, the man who killed her father. She's going to want to know the truth, instead of just sitting back and angsting about it. And even after the mindwipe, she's still suspicious about Lulu because Lelouch just didnt' clean up after himself enough. Although I'm not sure this point even counts against her because she has valid reason for 'stalking' Lelouch and it's not for romantic reasons.

As for her being a fangirl, Kallen's the fangirl -_- Shirley at least could talk to Lelouch normally and it seems they've known each other for a while since they're in the same council and class. But yes, she did have a crush on Lelouch that she didn't tell Lelouch about, but in case anyone forgot, that's completely normal in anime. Why are we lambasting her for it?

As for Kallen, don't be too sure she made up her mind. After all, she did promise to follow Zero till the end in S1 and we all know what happened to that promise -_-.

And it's a good qns why no one remember Nanali. Maybe they were geassed too

[ashlay]

And it's a good qns why no one remember Nanali. Maybe they were geassed too
Lelouch mentioned something to that effect in the episode 4 preview that got leaked. Seems highly likely the student council had their memories rewritten after all. >_>

[Marsala]

If Shirley has really had her memories rewritten (um, again), that's a major blow to her chances with Lelouch. While C.C. could probably reverse the memory changes, that isn't something that the Black Knights can allow until they have total control over the school (which means control over Tokyo Settlement and probably all of Japan). And while Shirley remains altered, she can't really develop or take part in events in a significant way.

[evil|plushie]

Next, we'll see C.C kiss all the student council members to give them their memories back -_-

As for whether there's any development while they've been brainwashed, I can only say that Lelouch seems to still remember the past 1 yr.

[Chaos2Frozen]

If Shirley has really had her memories rewritten (um, again), that's a major blow to her chances with Lelouch. While C.C. could probably reverse the memory changes, that isn't something that the Black Knights can allow until they have total control over the school (which means control over Tokyo Settlement and probably all of Japan). And while Shirley remains altered, she can't really develop or take part in events in a significant way.


Well it's not like they're completely different people, take Lelouch for example, he still remembers all that had happened to him, and could tell apart which memories were true.

Then again, unlike Lelouch, how much damage was really done to them anyway? The most I could think of is Nunnally, that aside, they're relatively happy people... No different than they usually were last season.

[Crontica]

Doesn't the stone part contradict the IF/But part?

Nothing is written in any stone anywhere, as long as there are things in the air (read: contract, motives, Marianne). Until those are resolved everything is written on clouds wavering in the face of a strong wind.

then please explain episode 26 of code geass :rolleyes:

[Crontica]

Well, it would only be lies if it did happen which is still in the air at the moment.

Of course, like I said before it seems likely that they will have Lelouch lose a few more people that he cares about, which could easily be C.C. since it would give that whole tragic romance theme to it. I don't really think Taniguchi is one for tragic romance, though I suppose you could count GXSand s-CRY-ed as possible examples.

unless there is a spell that teleports C.C into a alternate universe she isn't gonna die easily :eyespin:

[D a m i e n]

are you guys refering toe CGr2 eps 1 as episode 26? cause iirc there was only 25 eps in S1 ?(except if you concider recap eps to be real eps and not eps 8.5 etc etc)

[Skyfall]

Oh boy *cracks fingers*

This isn't about condemning her, it was about condemning himself in that respect. For her part, it was only natural for her to react the way she did, and not in a good. If her character remains the same I don't see her being able to do that, and massive changes to make her suitable in order to react to it would basically require rewriting her completely which would be a fatal error in my opinion for all you Shirely loving fans.

So you actually take that one moment of confusion when even Mao pointed out her thoughts were completely messed up as the actual resolution towards the situation ? :twitch: It didn't take that long for her to "settle down" and start pouring her heart out for Lelouch. That is her answer to the situation in the end. She would accept it. It won't be easy and it would likely would be quite the bumpy road for a while for both of them, but she showed her coming to terms with it. And indeed - Lelouch condemns himself in the situation; he most likely would think he doesn't deserve her. Can that be changed ? Who knows. In the speculative ending i did such a possibility is indeed present.


I can see a way to write a Duck ending, doesn't mean it will happen. :p
Can you do so with at least bit of creadility and relevance to the story is another question though.

Shirley is too much of a sidelines character to be randomly thrown into the mix, especially since there's not a chance, by any stretch of the imagination, that she'd be useful unlike say Kallen or C.C.. If anything she'd be another weight for Lelouch.

Can it happen? Yes. Do I think it likely? No. She is the innocence element in the show but that can only survive for so long.

Every single attachment is a weight for Lelouch from practicality viewpoint. Doesn't mean he is going to start caring less about such people though. Her involvement is anything but random, and only reason she is on the sideline now is because Lelouch Geaseed her to forget. When the second time comes (and i am fairly sure it will eventually) this quickfix "solution" won't be available to him anymore and the two of them would actually have to work their way through the situation and come to terms. Being on the frontlines of his anti-Britannia campaign is not needed for an ending involving the two, especially the way i can see it happening.

Barring supernatural intervention (See: C.C.) the Geass are ultimates. Unresistable and cannot be overturned. If they could it'd be a massive cop out, and the only reason I tolerate the one with Lulu is because C.C. is a witch and that deus ex machina is forgivable.

I don't really see what you are getting at here. I am saying the only way i imagine Shirley happening is if CC dies/has to leave in the end while reminding Lelouch he has someone waiting for him that he needs to take responsibility for. How is this related to geass at all ?

Now here's the interesting part. Lelouch's best friend, Suzaku, couldn't get over Euphies death, a close friend, and decided that the dead were more valuable than the living friend. Shirley, on the other hand, lost her father and upon rediscovering that Lelouch was Zero, started to fear him. And we expect her, a flimsy little girl, to get over her father's death in cold blood?

Moot point, as she already showed signs of getting over it. Shirley is not Suzaku (who is a mental case anyway) and the circumstances are different (besides Lelouch not shooting Shirley's father in front of her) - from what we seem to see in anime, romantic feelings for someone seem to override all in the long run. Suzaku's love interest was shot, while Shirley's love interest is Lelouch, and she has already shot for him. I don't see where the cold blood comment comes from either, as she was affected by it quite badly. Doesn't mean she has to go down the deep end though, and she wasn't going to (Mao's mind messing doesn't really count as her true intentions).

Then we'll also ignore that there's something very fishy going on at the academy, where no one seems to notice the missing Nunally. Which is, by no stretch, a big detraction from everyone except Kallen and C.C. who know about Nunally.

Which will be touched upon no doubt, but this doesn't really offer anything against the possibility of Shirley x Lelouch.


The second part; I agree about the foreshadowing, but I do not think Lelouch will be in Japan all that long. Or at least the story's focus. At some point, Lelouch is going to have to choose Lelouch Lamperouge or Zero, he cannot have both forever. And since Zero leads to Nunally...

When his battle is won (assuming he lives) there is no more need for Zero.

Everyone in the student council is important to Lelouch, though. Also, the point that she is not relevant to the story is a point I cannot see changing. The plot will become darker and bloodier as it progresses, and her innocent background existance will lessen and lessen.

Like I said, I could see it happen as an end, but I do not believe it will occur due to the aformentioned reasons and others.

The plot focus is likely to be less and less on her indeed, but like i said that doesn't change much. She is not all that important to the current affairs of things, but she (among the other innocent people from student council) is important to Lelouch. She doesn't need to be physically involved in Lelouch's crusade for it to happen, especially considering i can only see it happening when (if) the fighting has ended and its time for the dust to settle, provided Lelouch is capable of that.


C.C. could very well have closed up her heart and not need to die for another pairing to happen. She could very well just go to Mao like she promised him, I acknoledge that, or she could tell Lelouch to be happy with an actual human. :heh:

Going to Mao pretty much implies dying, no ? :heh: And the lest line is exactly why i can see a small glimmer of hope for Shirley.

Except, at some point his hands will be too sullied with blood for him to return to someone as innocent as Shirley or to 'normal life'. This is, personally, one of the reasons I don't see it happening. And, not to mention, that we're ignoring that his normal life is centered around Nunally.

Nunnaly is indeed the core of his motivation, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't value other people in there. If Nunnaly is somehow an argument (to which i don't agree) against Shirley, then i can say the same about any other pairing as well. Chances are high he will indeed consider himself to bloodied to return ... but who knows. I wouldn't put it past him to do so either.

You sure? They have very similar stories and motivations, they are both fighting against their bloodline, and, in general, they both fit into breaking free of destiny theme that defines a good bit of this story.

Not all that similar actually; even the reasons for their fighting are not the same, although the short-term goal for Lelouch and Kallen indeed does match - liberation of Japan. I still consider Kallen by far the least likely possibility (as in -i don't consider it at all), as i don't see the story being set up in a way for that to happen taking in to account everything else, nor do i consider their exchanges as anything indicating any form of upcoming romance.

He threw away his rebellion for Nunally, and that rebellion was far more important than his normal life. As you said before, he fights to change his 'normal life'. Just how much importance does his normal life have, then, if he throws away the means to changing it for Nunally?

He also threw it away for Euphie. Bottom line is - its a tool to his goal; one he is willing to discard if his personal feelings dictate so. If he sees a situation as favorable he may well discard it, because the rebellion is only his means, not the end.

Just because they have endured enough doesn't make them deserve anything more than the next person. I'd say plenty of people have endured more than her and recieved lesser ends.

I can feel sympathetic towards whom i want for whatever reasons that don't need any immense rationalization other than the fact i have been following their plight and thus have come to sympathize with them. Some people having bigger problems ...somewhere ...out there ... won't really make me care for them just like that. One death is a tragedy, million is a statistic. Sad ? Maybe, but definitely true.


You're chalking to much to the idea that their actual romance has to do something with the underlining themes. Their general interactions are already doing that, with issues of truth, breaking the chains of fate, and their reasons for fighting. Their romance would be more a finalization on those points then some other meaning, because, frankly, none of the pairings have any underlining relevance to the themes of this story since its not a romance story.

Not to mention one coming from the left field, seeing as i don't consider anything up untill now that would point at even the slightest possibility of Lelouch considering Kallen in romantic light. Their reasons for fighting have nothing in common either. And while themes of story might be too strong, lets just say that both of them would touch on points already raised by the series. If nothing else, bot Shirley and CC are more personally involved with Lelouch, while Kallen is still just a subordinate. An important one, but still "just" that in the end.

Heck, even SuzakuxEuphemia had little relevance to the underlining themes and it still 'happened'.

It actually had buildup and character interactions between the two so it happening actually made sense in light of everything else presented.

Do you choose your friend/crush over some stranger who would threaten them? Even if they did something bad? Most people would chose their friend and try to understand why what happened, happened. And, I'd argue that after getting royal mind-screwed by Mao, that she wasn't in a state of even thinking straight. Lelouch simply managed to convince her otherwise, there's no guarantee that she's forgiven him entirely.

And she chose exactly that. She may well not have forgiven him entirely (i don't think she has that easily), but she would with time. Probably not too much time. It being unintentional would likely help as well. She is no Suzaku who has been living a mental delusion for god knows how long. Of course she wasn't thinking really straight after Mao messed with her, but that is no longer going to be an issue. Neither will geass. I am sure time for questions and brooding over it will come, and i also believe it would have wheat i perceive as the natural outcome - her forgiving him. Real question here is: can Lelouch forgive himself ?


If Shirley has really had her memories rewritten (um, again), that's a major blow to her chances with Lelouch. While C.C. could probably reverse the memory changes, that isn't something that the Black Knights can allow until they have total control over the school (which means control over Tokyo Settlement and probably all of Japan). And while Shirley remains altered, she can't really develop or take part in events in a significant way.

The people likely have some of their memories altered, but that doesn't really change who they are. They still act the same way, Shirley still has a crush on Lelouch and Millay is still teasing her about it. Its still the same people minus one fact - Nunnaly has been replaced with Rollo in their heads.



Now all that aside let me say this: a Shirley x Lelouch ending is not the one thing i expect as the most likely. I don't think i am expecting a "happy" end at all. But if we consider "happy" endings (for simplicity's sake lets assume that it only requires Person A and Person B to actually survive and get together), then in such light i actually do view Shirley as the most likely possibility ... perhaps even the only one.

[Dann of Thursday]

Agreed. Shirley's the closest thing Lulu has to a normal girl in this series.

Karen? Probably not.

CC? HELL NO.

<nods> Truth is, my expected outcome list goes like this:

1. Lulu stays single

2. Lulu/Shirley

3. No resolution - left to viewer

I think that Lulu may already be too far gone to consider a dating relationship considering what happened to Euphie. But if he's not...

Agreed here too.

The themes explored here could possibly be EPIC level material - redemption, love rekindled, and of course...the waiting heroine.

That's the other thing:

How do we know Lulu is going to survive all this?

Just because she is a normal girl doesn't really mean she has any better chance than someone else.

And if you actually believe those are the only possble outcomes than you are being was too optimistic and overzealous regarding the pairing.

And there wouldn't be any dating to be quite honest. It's possible, but I rather doubt it myself.

You could accomplish similar themes with C.C. or Kallen, who are actually heroines while Shirley is going to be a minor character till the end. And you can't rekindle something that wasn't there originally. Shirley had feelings for Lelouch and that's about it. And to be honest, while the waiting heroine (which Shirley is not) would allow them to take care of romance eaily and just leave the subject till the end of the show, I doubt they'll pull something like that.

Okouchi pretty much stated Lelouch would make it out alive in the end and that he would get a satisfying ending. He said they could have him die and still do this, but that part seemed like it was just thrown in.

unless there is a spell that teleports C.C into a alternate universe she isn't gonna die easily :eyespin:

We have a weapon in the Emperor's hands that can kill a god. I think it can handle C.C..


Regarding C.C., there was that scene in that cave where she spoke of someone saying her name. Now we have no idea who it was, but I would think it could possibly be some past love or something of the sort though it seems likely she may not remember this person and it was some random thing that happened. For all we know, she could be intent on seeing this person again at some point, though that could also not be the case.

I find it hard to imagine ways to take Shirley or Kallen out of the romance picture as well. The fact that they had Shirley fall for him again shows that the only way they are taking care of her in that regard is if she dies unless they do some thing where she loved Lelouch Lamperouge but not Zero, but that is unlikely. They also keep bringing up the events of 14 which, while I find that such a relationship would be based more on guilt than anything else, means they don't seem to be letting go of it anytime soon. The whole scenario of C.C. telling him to go back to her seems incredibly likely to happen in any case so it's probably best if everyone just prepare themselves for that.

[Chaos2Frozen]

We have a weapon in the Emperor's hands that can kill a god. I think it can handle C.C..



Is it really safe to take that name literally?

[Skyfall]

Is it really safe to take that name literally?

The literal name was Akasha. Ability to kill a god was the description he gave to it, so yes - i would say we can be pretty certain that place can take care of CC. I wouldn't be very surprised if thats exactly where we see her go in the end :)

[Narona]

The literal name was Akasha. Ability to kill a god was the description he gave to it, so yes - i would say we can be pretty certain that place can take care of CC. I wouldn't be very surprised if thats exactly where we see her go in the end :)

She will not die. The emperor will fail. I swear >o<.

:upset:

[Blue_Mercy]

First off, let me say there is no Shirley X Lelouch, there is only Shirley X Her own crush. Lelouch said she was a friend. Her mind was wiped he could have said his love, but he didn't, if you want to cling to Shirley X Lelouch rewatch end of 12, 13, and 14 and be happy they addressed Shirley's crush. As such I disregard any discussion of Shirley. It's not going to happen. You can mark it down. I would gladly take any and all bashing if it happens, but it won't.

Episode 3 shows exactly why that is, Are they cute together? Yes. But now she's nothing more than a way to evade surveillance. Same as if he went on a date with Millay, but now they got a reason to use their Shirley music.:heh:

Oh boy *cracks fingers*

Not all that similar actually; even the reasons for their fighting are not the same, although the short-term goal for Lelouch and Kallen indeed does match - liberation of Japan. I still consider Kallen by far the least likely possibility (as in -i don't consider it at all), as i don't see the story being set up in a way for that to happen taking in to account everything else, nor do i consider their exchanges as anything indicating any form of upcoming romance.

That would be called denial. Lelouch knows about Kallen's past, her mother, he even offered to let Kallen see his face earlier implying a great amount of trust. Something he never volunteered to anyone else. This is about the most your going to get from a character like Lelouch until it becomes obvious. Kallen on the other hand is in love with Lelouch, she just hasn't admitted it trying to separate Lelouch and Zero. Which will pass with scenes like Lelouch putting on a jacket to cover Kallen. To me it's C.C., Kallen, both or bust.


Not to mention one coming from the left field, seeing as i don't consider anything up untill now that would point at even the slightest possibility of Lelouch considering Kallen in romantic light. Their reasons for fighting have nothing in common either. And while themes of story might be too strong, lets just say that both of them would touch on points already raised by the series. If nothing else, bot Shirley and CC are more personally involved with Lelouch, while Kallen is still just a subordinate. An important one, but still "just" that in the end.

All wrong except the C.C. personally involved with Lelouch part. Kallen is not out of left field for reasons addressed above. Lelouch wants to destroy Britannia, Kallen wants to destroy Britannia, in common. A former Britannian prince ended up with a half Britannian/half Japanese girl would be a great tie in. All this being said I fully expect C.C. to get the win, and Kallen to stay on as Lelouch's knight so to speak.

Shirley is in no way personally involved with Lelouch which would imply her in some way being involved to his Zero side of his life otherwise it's simply a crush on Lelouch Lamperouge.


Now all that aside let me say this: a Shirley x Lelouch ending is not the one thing i expect as the most likely. I don't think i am expecting a "happy" end at all. But if we consider "happy" endings (for simplicity's sake lets assume that it only requires Person A and Person B to actually survive and get together), then in such light i actually do view Shirley as the most likely possibility ... perhaps even the only one.

I guess this mostly depends on which characters you are pulling for to have the "happy ending" but yes I don't see it happening. Before long Lelouch will leave Japan and I will be very interested to see how they keep the student council members involved in the story.

[Var]

Well it's not like they're completely different people, take Lelouch for example, he still remembers all that had happened to him, and could tell apart which memories were true.

Then again, unlike Lelouch, how much damage was really done to them anyway? The most I could think of is Nunnally, that aside, they're relatively happy people... No different than they usually were last season.

With their memories rewritten, they are completely different people. They may look and act similarly but once you change a person's memories, you change the person.

then please explain episode 26 of code geass :rolleyes:

Explain what? Nothing happened, hell, more happened in episode 27.

Oh boy *cracks fingers*


*Crakcs fingers* :p


Can you do so with at least bit of creadility and relevance to the story is another question though.

Duck? Not so much. Though that was a clear hyperbole in intent, I can put in there near every side-lines female and not damage my credibility. Kaguya? Milly? They can work with little trouble going by the same argument that you're following.


Every single attachment is a weight for Lelouch from practicality viewpoint. Doesn't mean he is going to start caring less about such people though. Her involvement is anything but random, and only reason she is on the sideline now is because Lelouch Geaseed her to forget. When the second time comes (and i am fairly sure it will eventually) this quickfix "solution" won't be available to him anymore and the two of them would actually have to work their way through the situation and come to terms. Being on the frontlines of his anti-Britannia campaign is not needed for an ending involving the two, especially the way i can see it happening.

Certain attachments, especially ones that can handle themselves (see: C.C. and Kallen) are neccessary risks. Does he like to put them in the line of danger? I'd most certainly say no (see: 25 for C.C., 27 for Kallen after Urabe dies). She was on the sidelines before the geassing as well, she's never been anything more than a spectator, barring the one smidget of time after her father died. We also have no guarantee at a second time, we know that there's something amiss at the Academy. That simple circumstance could already have sealed them to being seperated. Knowing Lelouch, he'd probably like it that way as Shirley's no longer bothered by Zero, her father's death, or Lelouch.

But, for most of the story after Rollo, he's probably not going to be spending all that much time anywhere but the front lines. Eventually the war will reach a point of constant escalation, at which time he won't be able to be anywhere but the battlefield.


I don't really see what you are getting at here. I am saying the only way i imagine Shirley happening is if CC dies/has to leave in the end while reminding Lelouch he has someone waiting for him that he needs to take responsibility for. How is this related to geass at all ?

I was referring to the mind-wipe and rewrite and getting over it. Which I do not believe possible, but it can happen through Deus Ex Machina.


Moot point, as she already showed signs of getting over it. Shirley is not Suzaku (who is a mental case anyway) and the circumstances are different (besides Lelouch not shooting Shirley's father in front of her) - from what we seem to see in anime, romantic feelings for someone seem to override all in the long run. Suzaku's love interest was shot, while Shirley's love interest is Lelouch, and she has already shot for him. I don't see where the cold blood comment comes from either, as she was affected by it quite badly. Doesn't mean she has to go down the deep end though, and she wasn't going to (Mao's mind messing doesn't really count as her true intentions).

She showed signs? She showed a sign after deciding not to shoot Lelouch. Following which we recieved less than nothing because we had no confirmation if she'd forgiven him or simply chosen her living friend over her dead father. While it is true that romantic feelings tend to override everything else in Anime, not every Anime follows that train of thought. For example; my previous point touched on that. Suzaku chose the dead and his ideals over the love for his best friend. It was an example of how this anime breaks the mold at points.

Had Mao not appeared, she'd have never even managed to talk to Lelouch and would have probably either fallen apart from the stress of knowing but not acting, or... well I can't think of another option.


Which will be touched upon no doubt, but this doesn't really offer anything against the possibility of Shirley x Lelouch.

I would say it detracts quite a bit. Since Lelouch's life is about Nunally. If she remains this new Shirley, she's not the same person as before, and she knows even less about Lelouch than she did before.


When his battle is won (assuming he lives) there is no more need for Zero.


There's also no need for Lelouch Lamperouge. In the end there will be only Lelouch Vi Britannia.


The plot focus is likely to be less and less on her indeed, but like i said that doesn't change much. She is not all that important to the current affairs of things, but she (among the other innocent people from student council) is important to Lelouch. She doesn't need to be physically involved in Lelouch's crusade for it to happen, especially considering i can only see it happening when (if) the fighting has ended and its time for the dust to settle, provided Lelouch is capable of that.


See, I don't enjoy that scenario as it seems to simply leave her as a loose thread for most of the show until she suddenly becomes his lover. Usually, even if this is Anime, lovers need actual build up through out the show with some relevance to the ongoing events. LotR did such with Elwin and Aragorn. Their relationship was relevant to the plot, even if her role was a sidelines character at best.


Going to Mao pretty much implies dying, no ? :heh: And the lest line is exactly why i can see a small glimmer of hope for Shirley.

I meant that as dying. :p And the last line is another reason why I can see lots of hope for Kallen. Now we're just going in circles. :heh:


Nunnaly is indeed the core of his motivation, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't value other people in there. If Nunnaly is somehow an argument (to which i don't agree) against Shirley, then i can say the same about any other pairing as well. Chances are high he will indeed consider himself to bloodied to return ... but who knows. I wouldn't put it past him to do so either.

We'll just have to wait and see. There's really nothing to argue here, lest I try to tell you your opinion is wrong. :p
.
.
.
Your opinion is wrong! :heh:


Not all that similar actually; even the reasons for their fighting are not the same, although the short-term goal for Lelouch and Kallen indeed does match - liberation of Japan. I still consider Kallen by far the least likely possibility (as in -i don't consider it at all), as i don't see the story being set up in a way for that to happen taking in to account everything else, nor do i consider their exchanges as anything indicating any form of upcoming romance.

The reason for fighting is mostly similar. They are fighting for their families; where Lelouch fights for a dead mother and a living sister, Kallen fights for a living mother and dead brother, and both for the destruction of Britannia. If anything they are very similar. Her plan to liberate Japan is nice, but she'd have to be an idiot to think it could stop there. It cannot and I doubt she'd believe such a thing.


He also threw it away for Euphie. Bottom line is - its a tool to his goal; one he is willing to discard if his personal feelings dictate so. If he sees a situation as favorable he may well discard it, because the rebellion is only his means, not the end.

You mean for Euphie who gave him an alternative option? That's a rather backwards argument.


I can feel sympathetic towards whom i want for whatever reasons that don't need any immense rationalization other than the fact i have been following their plight and thus have come to sympathize with them. Some people having bigger problems ...somewhere ...out there ... won't really make me care for them just like that. One death is a tragedy, million is a statistic. Sad ? Maybe, but definitely true.

While I agree on the statistics, I don't neccessarily agree on what was said before. So, instead of going in a circle, we'll end this at the usual: Agree to disagree. :p


Not to mention one coming from the left field, seeing as i don't consider anything up untill now that would point at even the slightest possibility of Lelouch considering Kallen in romantic light. Their reasons for fighting have nothing in common either. And while themes of story might be too strong, lets just say that both of them would touch on points already raised by the series. If nothing else, bot Shirley and CC are more personally involved with Lelouch, while Kallen is still just a subordinate. An important one, but still "just" that in the end.

As I said before, their reasons for fighting have a very large similarity. I'd also argue against her not being personally involved (now), she's entered the world of Lelouch Lamperouge, Zero, and Lelouch Vi Britannia (without knowing), so she's getting into the heart of what makes the man tick. Much more so than Shirley, and on near equal levels to C.C..


It actually had buildup and character interactions between the two so it happening actually made sense in light of everything else presented.


I could say the same for any other relationship that could possibly happen.


And she chose exactly that. She may well not have forgiven him entirely (i don't think she has that easily), but she would with time. Probably not too much time. It being unintentional would likely help as well. She is no Suzaku who has been living a mental delusion for god knows how long. Of course she wasn't thinking really straight after Mao messed with her, but that is no longer going to be an issue. Neither will geass. I am sure time for questions and brooding over it will come, and i also believe it would have wheat i perceive as the natural outcome - her forgiving him. Real question here is: can Lelouch forgive himself ?


This will depend on a lot of things, as such I don't think we need to rehash what's already been said within this post.


The people likely have some of their memories altered, but that doesn't really change who they are. They still act the same way, Shirley still has a crush on Lelouch and Millay is still teasing her about it. Its still the same people minus one fact - Nunnaly has been replaced with Rollo in their heads.

It does change who they are, memories define the person. So different memories, different person. Just because somethings may be similar, it does not mean that they are real or original. We have no idea what's been changed, but I'd argue its far more than just Rollo.


Now all that aside let me say this: a Shirley x Lelouch ending is not the one thing i expect as the most likely. I don't think i am expecting a "happy" end at all. But if we consider "happy" endings (for simplicity's sake lets assume that it only requires Person A and Person B to actually survive and get together), then in such light i actually do view Shirley as the most likely possibility ... perhaps even the only one.

Magic! :heh:

[Kakashi]

First off, let me say there is no Shirley X Lelouch, there is only Shirley X Her own crush. Lelouch said she was a friend. Her mind was wiped he could have said his love, but he didn't, if you want to cling to Shirley X Lelouch rewatch end of 12, 13, and 14 and be happy they addressed Shirley's crush. As such I disregard any discussion of Shirley. It's not going to happen. You can mark it down. I would gladly take any and all bashing if it happens, but it won't.

I just re-watched the episode.

Shirley: Did you loose a family member?
Lelouch: No a great friend
Shirley: I see
Lelouch: Loss makes you realise a lot of things, doesn't it?
How much you lover her smile, how you'll never fight or laugh together again..
Shirley: You loved her didn't you?
Lelouch: I don't know anymore (because I erased your memory)
Shirley: A new day will come (when I remember my love for you!)

How can you say Lelouch had no feelings for her? He never refused when C.C. asked if he loved her. He's never denied love. Shows your just clutching at straws because since when has Lelouch ever thought as deeply about someone as when he did for Shirley, never for C.C. or Kallen that's for sure. Oh and loving someones smile is such as classic sign of love...Also Episode 14 was by far the best episode of the series so far if you ask me. Music at the end was great.

[evil|plushie]

With their memories rewritten, they are completely different people. They may look and act similarly but once you change a person's memories, you change the person.

Wouldn't this depend on the extent of the memories you're wiping? For Lelouch, it was a very large chunk of his memories, going all the way back to when he was young and removing memories of his mother/sister and probably replacing Roro in their place. But for the others? Wouldn't that depend on how significant Nanali is to them? You could probably rewrite part of my memories about my friends sisters/brothers and it wouldn't affect me much simply because they're not a very large part of my existence, if at all. So to argue that they're completely different people seems a bit presumptuous to me. Slightly different people, maybe.

Although one wonders if Lulu transformed his siscon into a brocon during that 1 yr...



There's also no need for Lelouch Lamperouge. In the end there will be only Lelouch Vi Britannia.


In all honesty, I'm not so certain Lelouch would take back his old name of Vie Britannia. Unless he wanted to take the throne, I don't see a need for him to.


First off, let me say there is no Shirley X Lelouch, there is only Shirley X Her own crush. Lelouch said she was a friend. Her mind was wiped he could have said his love, but he didn't, if you want to cling to Shirley X Lelouch rewatch end of 12, 13, and 14 and be happy they addressed Shirley's crush. As such I disregard any discussion of Shirley. It's not going to happen. You can mark it down. I would gladly take any and all bashing if it happens, but it won't.


You could say the same of almost all the ships out there right now as it is. There is no Lelouch X anyone else.

[Dann of Thursday]

I just re-watched the episode.

Shirley: Did you loose a family member?
Lelouch: No a great friend
Shirley: I see
Lelouch: Loss makes you realise a lot of things, doesn't it?
How much you lover her smile, how you'll never fight or laugh together again..
Shirley: You loved her didn't you?
Lelouch: I don't know anymore (because I erased your memory)
Shirley: A new day will come (when I remember my love for you!)

How can you say Lelouch had no feelings for her? He never refused when C.C. asked if he loved her. He's never denied love. Shows your just clutching at straws because since when has Lelouch ever thought as deeply about someone as when he did for Shirley, never for C.C. or Kallen that's for sure. Oh and loving someones smile is such as classic sign of love...Also Episode 14 was by far the best episode of the series so far if you ask me. Music at the end was great.

That’s you inserting your own thoughts into what was said. Romance was kept out of season 1 which means that that may have actually not done anything for them.

Did he say he loved her? He could have said “I think so” or something of the sort, but he didn’t. Just as always, he was never sure of his own feelings regarding anyone. Had the incident not happened and things left to their own devices than maybe the answer could have been yes, but that didn’t happen. When did C.C. ever ask if he loved Shirley? And the reason he thought about it was guilt because it affected someone who was someone he knew. And how do you know that? And classic signs like that don’t mean much. Episode 14 was alright, but not the best episode by any means.

[Skyfall]

As such I disregard any discussion of Shirley. It's not going to happen. You can mark it down. I would gladly take any and all bashing if it happens, but it won't.

I can take the same argument, replace Shirley with Kallen and throw it straight back at you, as i see it as much of an impossibility as you seem with Shirley. Doesn't make for a very productive discussion though, but if thats your stance then fine as well.


*Crakcs fingers* :p


...i think one crack sounded really nasty :p


Duck? Not so much. Though that was a clear hyperbole in intent, I can put in there near every side-lines female and not damage my credibility. Kaguya? Milly? They can work with little trouble going by the same argument that you're following.

It was a hyperbole question as well. I would say pulling through Millay or Kaguya would hurt credibility though. CC, Kallen and Shirley wouldn't. Yes, i just said Kallen - despite me thinking there is a snowball's chance in hell for that to happen and besides me not thinking there to be any romance indications on Lelouch's part up to this point in series, the ground for that can be layered with some specific developments that wouldn't look out of place.

Certain attachments, especially ones that can handle themselves (see: C.C. and Kallen) are neccessary risks. Does he like to put them in the line of danger? I'd most certainly say no (see: 25 for C.C., 27 for Kallen after Urabe dies). She was on the sidelines before the geassing as well, she's never been anything more than a spectator, barring the one smidget of time after her father died. We also have no guarantee at a second time, we know that there's something amiss at the Academy. That simple circumstance could already have sealed them to being seperated. Knowing Lelouch, he'd probably like it that way as Shirley's no longer bothered by Zero, her father's death, or Lelouch.

Oh, i am never implying that he likes putting them in danger - Lelouch is a fairly practical person, he may take calculated risks but thats that. And indeed - Lelouch is likely to be satisfied with the situation of Shirley having forgotten and not being bothered by it anymore. I believe (which is a speculation, but wouldn't you agree ? ;) (...i think i am asking for something rather dangerous)) she will regain her memory at some point, one way or another. What follows from there should be pretty interesting for us :)

But, for most of the story after Rollo, he's probably not going to be spending all that much time anywhere but the front lines. Eventually the war will reach a point of constant escalation, at which time he won't be able to be anywhere but the battlefield.

Agreed (Oh crap ... goes to order a ticket away from earth) on Rollo - after the immediate sibling issue is settled i can't imagine him having much to do besides being on the front lines, kicking realism(?) to the curb and haxxing his way through the enemies.

I was referring to the mind-wipe and rewrite and getting over it. Which I do not believe possible, but it can happen through Deus Ex Machina.

If i understood, you mean you don't think it possible for her to regain her lost memories without a deus ex machine ? Well then ... i can't promise anything, but in your case i would start bracing for impact, as , regardless of what comes of it, the event is something i believe to be pretty much guaranteed at some point.

It is also hard to tell what exactly has happened to her memories ... as we have seen with Mao, complex commands that are open to interpretation he gives with his Geass need to be rather specific. In Shirley's case he ordered her to "forget" ... which means the memories are not "physically" removed from the brain, but rather buried deep down in her mind (think Amnesia) and locked away. But still there, and chances should be high there is something that can (and will) serve as the key.


She showed signs? She showed a sign after deciding not to shoot Lelouch. Following which we recieved less than nothing because we had no confirmation if she'd forgiven him or simply chosen her living friend over her dead father.

Either way implies forgiveness to some degree, or at the very least acceptance of the fact and coming to terms with it. A forgiveness it may not be, but its a start.

While it is true that romantic feelings tend to override everything else in Anime, not every Anime follows that train of thought. For example; my previous point touched on that. Suzaku chose the dead and his ideals over the love for his best friend. It was an example of how this anime breaks the mold at points.

... I certainly was not referring to Lelouch and Suzaku when i mentioned that romantic love. And if you think i were, i may just need to strangle you :heh:

No, i don't think CG will be trying to break this particular mold. I think Shirley would forgive him eventually and choose the living Lelouch over hear dead father ... which isn't necessarily unrealistic either. Psychology varies so much from case to case that its hard (or impossible) to impose same guidelines for everyone.

Had Mao not appeared, she'd have never even managed to talk to Lelouch and would have probably either fallen apart from the stress of knowing but not acting, or... well I can't think of another option.

Well, thats a possibility i admit. But since it did happen, i just work with what has been given to me :p

I would say it detracts quite a bit. Since Lelouch's life is about Nunally. If she remains this new Shirley, she's not the same person as before, and she knows even less about Lelouch than she did before.

Its hard to say how much she knows about Lelouch right now, but i would assume just about the same minus his Zero connections and Nunnaly. (Though won't rule out her memories being altered about things like reason he is living in the school dorm and such).

There's also no need for Lelouch Lamperouge. In the end there will be only Lelouch Vi Britannia.

Isn't that what he has been all along ? :heh: It would seem we are arguing for the sake of arguing here ....which is fine i guess - we seem to do that all the time :heh:

See, I don't enjoy that scenario as it seems to simply leave her as a loose thread for most of the show until she suddenly becomes his lover. Usually, even if this is Anime, lovers need actual build up through out the show with some relevance to the ongoing events. LotR did such with Elwin and Aragorn. Their relationship was relevant to the plot, even if her role was a sidelines character at best.

I can see where you are coming from, and i would imagine many people would want to have the love interest be tied more closely to the core events ... and i would usually agree, but the core events which the anime focuses on is not all there is to Lelouch's life.

And Elwin ... while she did play a role in the plot indeed, her "screenpagetime" was so small i have almost forgotten she existed :heh: She is certainly not among the things that immediately pop up in my memory when my gaze slides over the books on my shelf :heh:

I meant that as dying. :p And the last line is another reason why I can see lots of hope for Kallen. Now we're just going in circles. :heh:


Aren't we doing that all the time ? :heh:

We'll just have to wait and see. There's really nothing to argue here, lest I try to tell you your opinion is wrong. :p
.
.
.
Your opinion is wrong! :heh:

...


Oh well ... i guess the meteor just went further away at least. Thats a good thing i guess ... probably ... hmm...


The reason for fighting is mostly similar. They are fighting for their families; where Lelouch fights for a dead mother and a living sister, Kallen fights for a living mother and dead brother, and both for the destruction of Britannia. If anything they are very similar. Her plan to liberate Japan is nice, but she'd have to be an idiot to think it could stop there. It cannot and I doubt she'd believe such a thing.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree once again :heh: That, or i point you towards your above quote :p

You mean for Euphie who gave him an alternative option? That's a rather backwards argument.


The alternate option is indeed there (aside from fact it offers no long-term security, as well as essentially stops him from claiming revenge), but it was not that good and rather naive ... even Lelouch thought as much. But he was willing to try. Not because he would have been all that fond of the idea to prefer it over his rebellion idea, but simply because Euphie was someone he couldn't use to his own goals in the end. Even for him there are things he can't willingly sacrifice, and Euphie was one of them. One of the very few such people. Though it all came to an end with the tragic "joke".

It just serves to illustrate a point - for the very few people he actually cares about, Lelouch is willing to sacrifice quite a lot (relatively).


As I said before, their reasons for fighting have a very large similarity. I'd also argue against her not being personally involved (now), she's entered the world of Lelouch Lamperouge, Zero, and Lelouch Vi Britannia (without knowing), so she's getting into the heart of what makes the man tick. Much more so than Shirley, and on near equal levels to C.C..

She is definitely closer to the truth than the geassed Shirley, thats for sure. I wouldn't say as close as CC though. But in the end the deciding side here will be Lelouch, and that is where i see Kallen x Lelouch stopping dead in its tracks.

It does change who they are, memories define the person. So different memories, different person. Just because somethings may be similar, it does not mean that they are real or original. We have no idea what's been changed, but I'd argue its far more than just Rollo.

Changing a few things about Lelouch (like his background ... though who knows how much of it she knew) would not have any large impact on Shirley as a person. Memories indeed define a person, but altering some background details about one person is not going to change very much in her. And she certainly seems to be the same as before, among with the other council members. (Nina included - she still makes me annoyed after seeing her for but a few seconds, and she didn't even need memory altering!)


Magic! :heh:

And what do you call Geass ? :heh:

Ugh ...this is time consuming >.>

[Chaos2Frozen]

With their memories rewritten, they are completely different people. They may look and act similarly but once you change a person's memories, you change the person.


You've seen the leak? How is any of them completely different?

In fact, I recall several people complaining how Shirley is still the same...

As far as we know, the only difference in memory is mostly to do with Lelouch. And while that is important, it's not that drastic to a point where their personality, core believes, behaviour, etc. all changed.

Essentially, they are still the same person.

[Dann of Thursday]

Meh, it probably doesn't matter since LelouchXShirley is what is going to happen in the end even if she isn't a main character. I can't come up with a good way to have her out of the running since it is quite obvious they are going to have her in love with Lelouch to the very end and that he is the only one for her.

What annoys me is that that incredibly irritating LelouchXShirley fan from a while back was actually right. I can only be thankful that they were banned so that I don't have to hear them gloating about it.

[Narona]

You've seen the leak? How is any of them completely different?

In fact, I recall several people complaining how Shirley is still the same...

As far as we know, the only difference in memory is mostly to do with Lelouch. And while that is important, it's not that drastic to a point where their personality, core believes, behaviour, etc. all changed.

Essentially, they are still the same person.
Even Lelouch is somewhat the same. He cares about Rollo in the same way he cared about Nunnaly. He doesn't approve what the Britannians are doing even if he can't do anything (turn 1).

[Dann of Thursday]

So no matter what, Shirley is always going to be in love with Lelouch which means she is likely to get him in the end.

They'll probably have some ending where Lelouch is with her and Nunnally and the council is there to. They'll probably be having fun or something. Happy ending.

[Narona]

Dann, are you sarcastic about that pairing? or serious XD?

[Dann of Thursday]

Serious and rather bitter.

[Kakashi]

So no matter what, Shirley is always going to be in love with Lelouch which means she is likely to get him in the end.

They'll probably have some ending where Lelouch is with her and Nunnally and the council is there to. They'll probably be having fun or something. Happy ending.

That's not necessarily true it's probably more likely Lelouch will end up with no one. But what happened to your fight :p? Should I bother posting a reply to the other post :heh:

[Dann of Thursday]

Don't bother. Im trying to salvage something that can't be salvaged.

[Blue_Mercy]

I just re-watched the episode.

Shirley: Did you loose a family member?
Lelouch: No a great friend
Shirley: I see
Lelouch: Loss makes you realise a lot of things, doesn't it?
How much you lover her smile, how you'll never fight or laugh together again..
Shirley: You loved her didn't you?
Lelouch: I don't know anymore (because I erased your memory)
Shirley: A new day will come (when I remember my love for you!)

How can you say Lelouch had no feelings for her? He never refused when C.C. asked if he loved her. He's never denied love. Shows your just clutching at straws because since when has Lelouch ever thought as deeply about someone as when he did for Shirley, never for C.C. or Kallen that's for sure. Oh and loving someones smile is such as classic sign of love...Also Episode 14 was by far the best episode of the series so far if you ask me. Music at the end was great.

Like Dann said that has alot of your own thoughts inserted into there, but that's fine in fact that's something that I think makes Code Geass great is that there are many different things that happen in the story it's hard not to find one you'll like.


You could say the same of almost all the ships out there right now as it is. There is no Lelouch X anyone else.

:heh: So true, that's more of a Lelouch character problem.

I can take the same argument, replace Shirley with Kallen and throw it straight back at you, as i see it as much of an impossibility as you seem with Shirley. Doesn't make for a very productive discussion though, but if thats your stance then fine as well.


I agree it doesn't make for a productive discussion, because there is no Shirley discussion to begin with.

[evil|plushie]

The only Lelouch X anyone discussion that is canon is the whole Lelouch X Euphie ship -_- Ironically enough.

[Kakashi]

Like Dann said that has alot of your own thoughts inserted into there, but that's fine in fact that's something that I think makes Code Geass great is that there are many different things that happen in the story it's hard not to find one you'll like.

You're right that's what I love about it. I see how some people could view it as Lelouch saying good bye to an great friend as well but the way I posted it is what I find more likely and also more romantic. Even if Shirley doesn't end up with Lelouch I'll always be very happy with that episode because it catered to Shirley fans and was great over all.

Lol and sympathy rep for Dann of Thursday...I know how you feel I'm shipping for IchiHime on the Bleach forum, so much resistance...

Also C.C. said you should stay away from those you don't wish to loose which shows why she left Mao, even though she loved him. Lulu might have taken that to heart by trying to stay away from Shirley over the last 10 episodes or so.

[Var]

Wouldn't this depend on the extent of the memories you're wiping? For Lelouch, it was a very large chunk of his memories, going all the way back to when he was young and removing memories of his mother/sister and probably replacing Roro in their place. But for the others? Wouldn't that depend on how significant Nanali is to them? You could probably rewrite part of my memories about my friends sisters/brothers and it wouldn't affect me much simply because they're not a very large part of my existence, if at all. So to argue that they're completely different people seems a bit presumptuous to me. Slightly different people, maybe.

Milly and Shirley's memories would had to have the most change to them, after Lelouch (especially Milly). They've known and interacted with Nunally, becoming close friends, for as long as Lelouch has been around. Also, for Shirley at least, we can tell that other memories have been altered. She no longer fears Zero, and no longer knows Lelouch is Zero. A good bit of her development as a character has been erased. So, all in all, I'm going to stick with my point that they are not the same people anymore.



In all honesty, I'm not so certain Lelouch would take back his old name of Vie Britannia. Unless he wanted to take the throne, I don't see a need for him to.


Not the name, persay, but the manner in which he acts. Lelouch Vi Britannia is, for lack of a better description, the face of Lelouch. Lamperouge is the fake-nice side, while Zero is the fake-dark side. Vi Britannia is a mix of both.


You could say the same of almost all the ships out there right now as it is. There is no Lelouch X anyone else.

We all have personal bias, as such no one can be truly impartial. Overall I try to be, but I still have some obvious favortism.


...i think one crack sounded really nasty :p

I had to replace my hand. :p


It was a hyperbole question as well. I would say pulling through Millay or Kaguya would hurt credibility though. CC, Kallen and Shirley wouldn't. Yes, i just said Kallen - despite me thinking there is a snowball's chance in hell for that to happen and besides me not thinking there to be any romance indications on Lelouch's part up to this point in series, the ground for that can be layered with some specific developments that wouldn't look out of place.

I don't see why Kaguya or Milly would hurt credibility, especially not Milly. They've shown just about as much interest in Lelouch as Shirley, with Milly going further as to not being selfish about it and trying to make everyone else happy, but not herself.

From a physics stand point, (uh oh where's he going with this!) hell already froze over due to its very exothermic nature. I can cite the proof for it if you wish. :p So I'll take those odds.


Oh, i am never implying that he likes putting them in danger - Lelouch is a fairly practical person, he may take calculated risks but thats that. And indeed - Lelouch is likely to be satisfied with the situation of Shirley having forgotten and not being bothered by it anymore. I believe (which is a speculation, but wouldn't you agree ? ;) (...i think i am asking for something rather dangerous)) she will regain her memory at some point, one way or another. What follows from there should be pretty interesting for us :)

I'd agree but then... I'm afraid of this looming meteor waiting outside my window. :p I'm truly skeptical whether or not she will regain her memories, or if Lelouch will let it happen. If it does, though, we'll have more to discuss. :p


Agreed (Oh crap ... goes to order a ticket away from earth) on Rollo - after the immediate sibling issue is settled i can't imagine him having much to do besides being on the front lines, kicking realism(?) to the curb and haxxing his way through the enemies.

Oh great... Thanks for all the fish, I suppose.


If i understood, you mean you don't think it possible for her to regain her lost memories without a deus ex machine ? Well then ... i can't promise anything, but in your case i would start bracing for impact, as , regardless of what comes of it, the event is something i believe to be pretty much guaranteed at some point.


We'll have to wait and see, I'm certain it can happen, but deus ex machina methods usually feel like cop outs, and I can't see many other methods of overcoming the multi-geassing.


It is also hard to tell what exactly has happened to her memories ... as we have seen with Mao, complex commands that are open to interpretation he gives with his Geass need to be rather specific. In Shirley's case he ordered her to "forget" ... which means the memories are not "physically" removed from the brain, but rather buried deep down in her mind (think Amnesia) and locked away. But still there, and chances should be high there is something that can (and will) serve as the key.

The way the forgetting was portrayed, I'm almost certain the memories were erased. You see images of her and Lelouch fading away, as in being erased. But this is up to interpretation, we'll just have to wait and see.


Either way implies forgiveness to some degree, or at the very least acceptance of the fact and coming to terms with it. A forgiveness it may not be, but its a start.


I'll agree on start, but there's no guarantee it will go past that. People can partially forgive someone, but ultimately they harbor some resentment.


... I certainly was not referring to Lelouch and Suzaku when i mentioned that romantic love. And if you think i were, i may just need to strangle you :heh:

No, i don't think CG will be trying to break this particular mold. I think Shirley would forgive him eventually and choose the living Lelouch over hear dead father ... which isn't necessarily unrealistic either. Psychology varies so much from case to case that its hard (or impossible) to impose same guidelines for everyone.

No, I was comparing 'love' in the general sense. Two friends can love one another but not in a romantic sense.

We'll have to simply agree to disagree, this is just a question of how we interpret events and psychology of the characters... and I don't want a psychology debate to start. :p


Well, thats a possibility i admit. But since it did happen, i just work with what has been given to me :p

But, with her new memories, for all intents and purposes its as if it never happened. So if she were to rediscover that Lelouch killed her father and was Zero, we could very well end up back to the Shirley that was wandering Narita in confusion.


Its hard to say how much she knows about Lelouch right now, but i would assume just about the same minus his Zero connections and Nunnaly. (Though won't rule out her memories being altered about things like reason he is living in the school dorm and such).


We'll just have to wait and see. I think its more than just that but, well, I can't make any real point on a blatant guess.


Isn't that what he has been all along ? :heh: It would seem we are arguing for the sake of arguing here ....which is fine i guess - we seem to do that all the time :heh:

Ehh, why not. Good exercise? Get's the brain juices flowing in the morning. We've also hit up a few good points here and there, so we're gaining, all be it slowly.


I can see where you are coming from, and i would imagine many people would want to have the love interest be tied more closely to the core events ... and i would usually agree, but the core events which the anime focuses on is not all there is to Lelouch's life.

And Elwin ... while she did play a role in the plot indeed, her "screenpagetime" was so small i have almost forgotten she existed :heh: She is certainly not among the things that immediately pop up in my memory when my gaze slides over the books on my shelf :heh:

But it is most of Lelouch's life. I agree that there are parts that it doesn't focus on, but it focuses on the most key elements. But we've both come to some sort of understanding where each other stands, and since we're both hardheaded... we're going to probably end here with this segment. :P

To be perfectly frank, I mostly forgot Shirley existed after 14, but unlike Elwin she's had almost no role in the plot. At least Elwin was died to the fate of Middle Earth.


Aren't we doing that all the time ? :heh:


Probably. :p


...


Oh well ... i guess the meteor just went further away at least. Thats a good thing i guess ... probably ... hmm...


Jokes scare the meteors? :heh:


Guess we will have to agree to disagree once again :heh: That, or i point you towards your above quote :p

I'll take the former option. :p


The alternate option is indeed there (aside from fact it offers no long-term security, as well as essentially stops him from claiming revenge), but it was not that good and rather naive ... even Lelouch thought as much. But he was willing to try. Not because he would have been all that fond of the idea to prefer it over his rebellion idea, but simply because Euphie was someone he couldn't use to his own goals in the end. Even for him there are things he can't willingly sacrifice, and Euphie was one of them. One of the very few such people. Though it all came to an end with the tragic "joke".

It just serves to illustrate a point - for the very few people he actually cares about, Lelouch is willing to sacrifice quite a lot (relatively).

Lelouch offered to help her turn the idea into something real, so as naive as it may have been, he believed in it. And he had planned to use Euphie until she made her offer to him, hence the plan of having her shoot him. It puts her in no danger but serves his goals. I'd add more to this but we'll have to wait till episode three airs.


She is definitely closer to the truth than the geassed Shirley, thats for sure. I wouldn't say as close as CC though. But in the end the deciding side here will be Lelouch, and that is where i see Kallen x Lelouch stopping dead in its tracks.

And that is where I see the opposite. Oh well. :p


Changing a few things about Lelouch (like his background ... though who knows how much of it she knew) would not have any large impact on Shirley as a person. Memories indeed define a person, but altering some background details about one person is not going to change very much in her. And she certainly seems to be the same as before, among with the other council members. (Nina included - she still makes me annoyed after seeing her for but a few seconds, and she didn't even need memory altering!)

Its not just some background details, its her knowledge of Zero, of his indenity, of what he did to her. They are all gone. She is no longer the Shirley that was developed in Season 1. She's nothing short of a restart doomed to crash if, as you say, the truth is revealed.


And what do you call Geass ? :heh:

Ugh ...this is time consuming >.>

I'd call Geass haxx. :p

Time consuming, but fun. :heh:

You've seen the leak? How is any of them completely different?

In fact, I recall several people complaining how Shirley is still the same...

As far as we know, the only difference in memory is mostly to do with Lelouch. And while that is important, it's not that drastic to a point where their personality, core believes, behaviour, etc. all changed.

Essentially, they are still the same person.

Pure nonsense. She is not the same person. Did you see her fear Zero? Did you see her fear Lelouch? No? That is who Shirley was in Season 1's end, that is the Shirley that was developed.

The new Shirley is a carbon copy of what we had in Episode 1, one that has a very dark cloud waiting to shatter everything just over the horizon.

The memories that have to do with the Lelouch are the most important ones in a pairing between ShirleyxLelouch. She is a carbon copy of her old self, but her old self was not the person she had developed into.

Essentially, they are completely different people.

[digi.amuro]

While its true that Shirley may be in love with Lelouch, I can hardly base a LelouchxShirley end on that. I've seen plenty of shows where the one who's in love w/ the main character doesn't get happy end w/ their love. Either the MC was alone or fell for another girl or died. I'm not discounting this pairing at all, but she loves him is not a good enough reason for me ATM. It hardly helps any of the L.I.'s chances since we're only up to ep3 (hopefully). We're pretty much at a foundation level w/ Shirley and Kallen, C.C.'s pretty much where she was at last season's end. I want to see a little more before I start claiming anything as a cannon pairing (Aside from OugixViletta of course :heh: )

I can solve this whole mess. I just need a hacksaw, some super glue, thread, and all three girls. Lelouch will have his perfect woman...and a couple of extra pieces. :heh:
(Imagines Lelouch running from Zombie girl chasing after him)

PS- Really love Shirley's new hairstyle. Guess she's not as plain vanilla as I thought anymore. :p

[evil|plushie]

Milly and Shirley's memories would had to have the most change to them, after Lelouch (especially Milly). They've known and interacted with Nunally, becoming close friends, for as long as Lelouch has been around. Also, for Shirley at least, we can tell that other memories have been altered. She no longer fears Zero, and no longer knows Lelouch is Zero. A good bit of her development as a character has been erased. So, all in all, I'm going to stick with my point that they are not the same people anymore.


It depends on how the memory wipe works. For Milly, it's probably more severe since she'd have to forget that Lelouch was a prince of Britannia. But for Shirley, the emperor would just need to replace her memories of ever discovering Zeros identity and then replace Roro with Nanali in her memories. Actually, while Shirley's seems simple, it may be pretty complex since we have no idea what the Emperor did. After all, if he didn't know Shirley knew Lulu was Zero, can he alter that memory? Or must he know of something before he can do it? Or does he receive an impression of all his victims memories and decides which to alter?

If he didn't erase Shirleys memories of the Zero-Lu connection, then it's very possible that Shirley decided Lulu wasn't Zero. After all, Zero was captured and executed by the Empire and Lelouch is still around, so Lelouch can't be Zero. Which must mean the letter in her handwriting isn't true, but then that brings up a whole slew of other problems. So I think I'm going to watch and wait on this particular issue.



I don't see why Kaguya or Milly would hurt credibility, especially not Milly. They've shown just about as much interest in Lelouch as Shirley, with Milly going further as to not being selfish about it and trying to make everyone else happy, but not herself.

Man, I'd love it if Kaguya or Milly ended up being the OTP -_- Unlikely, but dammit, it would be nice.


The way the forgetting was portrayed, I'm almost certain the memories were erased. You see images of her and Lelouch fading away, as in being erased. But this is up to interpretation, we'll just have to wait and see.

Now that the Emperors geass can be counteracted, does this mean Lulu's can as well?

[Var]

It depends on how the memory wipe works. For Milly, it's probably more severe since she'd have to forget that Lelouch was a prince of Britannia. But for Shirley, the emperor would just need to replace her memories of ever discovering Zeros identity and then replace Roro with Nanali in her memories. Actually, while Shirley's seems simple, it may be pretty complex since we have no idea what the Emperor did. After all, if he didn't know Shirley knew Lulu was Zero, can he alter that memory? Or must he know of something before he can do it? Or does he receive an impression of all his victims memories and decides which to alter?

If he didn't erase Shirleys memories of the Zero-Lu connection, then it's very possible that Shirley decided Lulu wasn't Zero. After all, Zero was captured and executed by the Empire and Lelouch is still around, so Lelouch can't be Zero. Which must mean the letter in her handwriting isn't true, but then that brings up a whole slew of other problems. So I think I'm going to watch and wait on this particular issue.


I'm under the impression that he sees into their minds, because the amount of things he changed in Lelouch's mind are too great to be anything else. And, even if he didn't change her knowledge of Zero, she'd still have to have to fear in her when he reappears. Which she had none of. She'd have enough in her mind to question it if she had the letter and her old memories of Zero-Lelouch, I see no such indication.


Now that the Emperors geass can be counteracted, does this mean Lulu's can as well?

C.C. did something with her kiss, and undid it in 26. That's why it was broken. There's nothing to indicate that any such thing can or will happen to Shirley.

[evil|plushie]

C.C. did something with her kiss, and undid it in 26. That's why it was broken. There's nothing to indicate that any such thing can or will happen to Shirley.

At least until C.C kisses her. My next pairing, C.C X Shirley

[KrimzonStriker]

Part of me also thinks the Lelouch's own suppressed Geass played a vital role for C.C being able help him overcome the mind-wipe, so I've got doubts in any method of lifting whatever spell is on Shirely and the others given how... normal they are >_>

[Skyfall]

Time consuming, but fun. :heh:


I would agree on that :p It also makes me think more about the issue than i normally would, and i enjoy a good, constructive discussion. (meteors are constructive).


... for the moment it seems we have exhausted all there is besides arguing over opinions, so i guess will have to wait till episode 3 appears and (hopefully) gives us something new to digest.

[evil|plushie]

All this talk of Shirley has been making me think as well. Shirley may actually be more important than I gave her credit for, since if I think about it, she had a 3 episode arc in the last season along with the subplot of her letter and suspicion of Zero. But somehow I don't see her as having a happy ending without Lelouch since her character role in the series reminds me of Scherise in Scryed who died to save the one she loved . So that's one way that the whole relationship may end.

[Lugia_Tsuyu]

I still think Lelouch x C.C., Lelouch alone and Lelouch Kallen have more possibilities than Lelouch x Shirley. If in the end Lelouch won the war with Britannia and Emperor, he will need to be the next Emperor (I'm not sure.) And even C.C. said this before "Power of the king will make you lonely" <<< Like he can't really be with anyone.

[ashlay]

I still think Lelouch x C.C., Lelouch alone and Lelouch Kallen have more possibilities than Lelouch x Shirley. If in the end Lelouch won the war with Britannia and Emperor, he will need to be the next Emperor (I'm not sure.) And even C.C. said this before "Power of the king will make you lonely" <<< Like he can't really be with anyone.
no, Lelouch recruits people like Toudou or Kaguya to be leaders, he's just a rebel.

And it's not so much that the Power of the King makes Lelouch lonely at this point (since it didn't drive him completely nuts even when everything fell to pieces in 25), it's more like Lelouch makes himself lonely. ;_;

[Var]

I would agree on that :p It also makes me think more about the issue than i normally would, and i enjoy a good, constructive discussion. (meteors are constructive).


... for the moment it seems we have exhausted all there is besides arguing over opinions, so i guess will have to wait till episode 3 appears and (hopefully) gives us something new to digest.

It is nice to have an occasional good, constructive conversation, with added spice of destructive meteors. :p

And you're right, from here on out we'd just be yelling at one another that the other's opinion is wrong. We'll have to wait for three, fun times ahead.
.
.
.
Your opinion is wrong! :p (What? I couldn't help it.)

[squaresphere]

Well just my 2 cents. I don't see how C.C. x Lelouch would end up well mostly because we still have no idea what the contract is and what will happen when the conditions are met :p

[Dann of Thursday]

Lol and sympathy rep for Dann of Thursday...I know how you feel I'm shipping for IchiHime on the Bleach forum, so much resistance...

I'm not exactly meeting with resistance. I'm more having resistance from myself since I have a preference for LelouchXC.C..

While its true that Shirley may be in love with Lelouch, I can hardly base a LelouchxShirley end on that. I've seen plenty of shows where the one who's in love w/ the main character doesn't get happy end w/ their love. Either the MC was alone or fell for another girl or died. I'm not discounting this pairing at all, but she loves him is not a good enough reason for me ATM. It hardly helps any of the L.I.'s chances since we're only up to ep3 (hopefully). We're pretty much at a foundation level w/ Shirley and Kallen, C.C.'s pretty much where she was at last season's end. I want to see a little more before I start claiming anything as a cannon pairing (Aside from OugixViletta of course :heh: )

I can solve this whole mess. I just need a hacksaw, some super glue, thread, and all three girls. Lelouch will have his perfect woman...and a couple of extra pieces. :heh:
(Imagines Lelouch running from Zombie girl chasing after him)

PS- Really love Shirley's new hairstyle. Guess she's not as plain vanilla as I thought anymore. :p

The first few episodes have pretty much put the three girls on about the same level I suppose. OugiXViletta is the only pairing I have any real confidence in and that even has a possibility of ending very badly. I think Lelouch and Ougi should get a break honestly.

Better yet, combine all three girls into the perfect woman. Everybody wins!!

All this talk of Shirley has been making me think as well. Shirley may actually be more important than I gave her credit for, since if I think about it, she had a 3 episode arc in the last season along with the subplot of her letter and suspicion of Zero. But somehow I don't see her as having a happy ending without Lelouch since her character role in the series reminds me of Scherise in Scryed who died to save the one she loved . So that's one way that the whole relationship may end.

I doubt she'll ever be anything more than a minor character, but she may get some importance later on depending on how they handle her (and the other council members). For her to have a chance with him that I could believe, she is going to need a episodes and development with him. Of course, all the girls need that with him.

I'd have to agree that as it stands now, I can't quite imagine her having a happy ending without Lelouch. You draw an interesting parallel, but we'll have to see if they pull anything like that with her. She would need substantial development for it to be truly meaningful and if we got to that point then Lelouch could be too full of grief and guilt to be capable of a romantic relationship.

I still think Lelouch x C.C., Lelouch alone and Lelouch Kallen have more possibilities than Lelouch x Shirley. If in the end Lelouch won the war with Britannia and Emperor, he will need to be the next Emperor (I'm not sure.) And even C.C. said this before "Power of the king will make you lonely" <<< Like he can't really be with anyone.

He doesn't need to be the next Emperor nor does he desire to be. I'd think he would get rid of the current government myself.

And if you watch C.C.'s little monologue at the start of 15, she talks of how someone who overcomes all that would truly have the right to be the King. Of course, we don't quite know what that means as it could be regarding the contract in some way.

Well just my 2 cents. I don't see how C.C. x Lelouch would end up well mostly because we still have no idea what the contract is and what will happen when the conditions are met :p

Well, I can't see how any pairing can truly happen at the moment either. The contract is certainly the biggest issue out of everything else, but that can be resolved.



The thing I have trouble imagining with C.C. and Kallen is him being in a good, long term relationship with either of them given their personalities. C.C. is likely to be gone or dead by the end of this so we could always just eliminate her from the running now.

As long as that whole guilt regarding Shirley remains and that impression that he is going to make it up to her, she has the permanent lead no matter what happens with anyone else.

[KrimzonStriker]

Dann, if C.CXLelouch still manages to happen after all your pessimism and declarations of doom I will never let you live it down, I swear :rolleyes:

[Dann of Thursday]

Dann, if C.CXLelouch still manages to happen after all your pessimism and declarations of doom I will never let you live it down, I swear :rolleyes:

Happening is one thing. If she dies after they develop feelings for one another than it still failed in the end. If it does happen, feel free to never let me live it down.

Hypothetically speaking, how would Lelouch ending up with any of the girls work after everything is said and done. I can't quite imagine daily life with C.C. and Kallen in a romantic relationship? Of course, this depends on where Lelouch is in the end.

[KrimzonStriker]

What if he dies too and they join together in some afterlife? Okay, bottom line I'm setting is that they develope feelings for each other and are together by the end of all this (in whatever kind of existence), or at least is hinted that they are together by the end after reviewing the abiguity of Tanaguchi's other series. Do we have a deal?

[Dann of Thursday]

What if he dies too and they join together in some afterlife? Okay, bottom line I'm setting is that they develop feelings for each other and are together by the end of all this (in whatever kind of existence), or at least is hinted that they are together by the end after reviewing the ambiguity of Tanaguchi's other series. Do we have a deal?

Okay, that works in some sense though honestly I'd rather not have both of them die. How is them developing feelings for one another going to work anyway? I would think that if it happened they would have to drop the masks with one another and C.C. would have to be a lot more open with herself which seems rather hard at the moment. I also can't figure out how that would come about. Hinting is something that could happen should that pairing happen, but I have a feeling this show will be more direct about things.

[Sol Falling]

hahaha yes! Gone for a couple days and I return to see that Shirley x Lulu has taken over the thread. Basic objectivity and multifaceted characterization has prevailed! This thread may now persist a while without being littered with pointless Shirley bashing and Zero idolatry, just as, for a few blissful pages, the morality thread (which seems to have fallen off the face of this forum lately) was purged of misdirected Suzaku hate and instead infused with a reasoned attempt to empathize with and understand his character.

Skyfall, we may have had some disagreements in the past, but I wholeheartedly agree with your conclusions and the way you've come to them in this thread. The fact of the matter is, Shirley, as someone removed from the blood and darkness Lelouch has forced himself to embrace, and also somebody who loved/loves him for the true self he wishes he could always be in the 'kind world' he desires for his sister, represents his best chance for salvation, redemption, and happiness.

And that is enough for me. Although we have no way of knowing whether Lelouch will grasp his 'little bit of happiness' at the end, I will know what could have been, and on that account be able to be moved--to joy or sadness--in empathy.

I haven't seen the leak for episode 3 (and as an aside really hope they don't delay it, from the spoilers in this thread) but given what we've been told, I'm really looking forward to it now.

Oh and Dann...although I can empathise (entirely!) with the frustrations of some rabid, inarticulate fan polluting a thread with gibberish about things that seem irrelevent, I hope that you would not allow that single experience to taint your perceptions about the show itself. It seems that many people believe that Shirley's care for Lelouch was entirely shallow, fangirlish, stalkerish, and desperate, and that Lelouch's initial reaction to her, and his subsequent interactions, would be tainted indelibly by guilt. Is this your concern? If so, let me attempt to allieve it.

[Dann of Thursday]

Well, for one thing, I doubt that true self is really exactly what he wants to be nor could he ever truly be that since the other aspect of his personality is never going to go away. And I wouldn't say it is a fact that that is what Shirley represents.

To be honest, that one fan made me want to see the pairing not happen just so they could be proven wrong. I don't like admitting that, but it is true.

And while I'll say that part of her feelings could be interpreted as love, it did have aspects of being fangirlish in the sense that Kallen was a fangirl about Zero. I don't think she is really all that shallow, but she didn't know the real Lelouch at all. The kiss was one of desperation no matter how you look at it and the fact that romance was kept out of season 1 supports this. And it has been shown that the majority of his interactions are through guilt more than anything else.

I simply don't like the pairing. And if it happens I'll just accept it since I have been expecting the pairing I like to not be the one that happens for a long time now or even if it did happen, it would end tragically. Shirley is pretty much is only shot at a normal life and given that every Taniguchi character ends up in the life they had, that life is the one he is going to end up with.

[Var]

The fact of the matter is, Shirley, as someone removed from the blood and darkness Lelouch has forced himself to embrace, and also somebody who loved/loves him for the true self he wishes he could always be in the 'kind world' he desires for his sister, represents his best chance for salvation, redemption, and happiness.

There is no fact of the matter, the logic in this is backwards and completely ignores that there are others beyond Shirley who represent the same thing. Lelouch's true self is not any one face we see, it is a combination of three, as such you cannot explicitly state, as if it were fact, that Shirley loves Lelouch for his true-self. She loves Lelouch Lamperouge, a hollow existance that serves only as an afront to the real Lelouch.

With your line of argument, I can easily say the same for Milly, but then that'd get nowhere.


I haven't seen the leak for episode 3 (and as an aside really hope they don't delay it, from the spoilers in this thread) but given what we've been told, I'm really looking forward to it now.

If you've read the spoilers then I don't see why you're looking forward to it.



Oh and Dann...although I can empathise (entirely!) with the frustrations of some rabid, inarticulate fan polluting a thread with gibberish about things that seem irrelevent, I hope that you would not allow that single experience to taint your perceptions about the show itself. It seems that many people believe that Shirley's care for Lelouch was entirely shallow, fangirlish, stalkerish, and desperate, and that Lelouch's initial reaction to her, and his subsequent interactions, would be tainted indelibly by guilt. Is this your concern? If so, let me attempt to allieve it.

I love when the word inarticulate is used on the internet. It is an irrelevant word for showing intelligence or even understanding, not everyone is a native English speaker.

It's not that anyone really believes her love is shallow, its just that it encompasses only one side of Lelouch, much like what Kallen had in S1. There is also no evidence to suggest that Lelouch's interaction with Shirley are ever going to be anything but out of guilt, and so there's no real argumentative value in mentioning it. The real concern is more around the fact that this is no longer Shirley, but some carbon copy of her from S1 Ep1.

[Reiji Tabibito]

And that doesn't make you the least bit curious as to why? Or why no one questions where Nunally is? This returns to the point that something is amiss at the school and with the council members.


That is true...but the question is WHY would someone erase the memories of the student council members, other than to hide the existence of Nunally?

Just because she is a normal girl doesn't really mean she has any better chance than someone else.

And if you actually believe those are the only possble outcomes than you are being was too optimistic and overzealous regarding the pairing.

And there wouldn't be any dating to be quite honest. It's possible, but I rather doubt it myself.

So do I, but this thread doesn't exist for nothing yes?



Okouchi pretty much stated Lelouch would make it out alive in the end and that he would get a satisfying ending. He said they could have him die and still do this, but that part seemed like it was just thrown in.

Satisfying does not = happy. Satisfying for Lelouch would probably mean 1 of 2 things:

1. Destruction of Britannia

2. Freedom of Japan

And that's it. Nothing else guaranteed beyond that.

First off, let me say there is no Shirley X Lelouch, there is only Shirley X Her own crush. Lelouch said she was a friend. Her mind was wiped he could have said his love, but he didn't, if you want to cling to Shirley X Lelouch rewatch end of 12, 13, and 14 and be happy they addressed Shirley's crush. As such I disregard any discussion of Shirley. It's not going to happen. You can mark it down. I would gladly take any and all bashing if it happens, but it won't.

That's a little harsh, don't you think?


That's not necessarily true it's probably more likely Lelouch will end up with no one. But what happened to your fight :p? Should I bother posting a reply to the other post :heh:

Agreed here.

The only Lelouch X anyone discussion that is canon is the whole Lelouch X Euphie ship -_- Ironically enough.

Surprisingly enough, yeah it is. But that's not really gonna work anymore, is it?

And let's all keep in mind that the memories aren't gone, just forgotten. Lelouch's recovery at the end ep. 1 confirmed that - so it is possible for everyone to get their memory back - and then start hating the Britannians for it...

[Dann of Thursday]

I'd have to admit that Shirley would have to go beyond from what she is at the moment for it to be a believable pairing at all. Chances are she will get such development and discover Lelouch is Zero again at some point.

[ashlay]

I'd have to admit that Shirley would have to go beyond from what she is at the moment for it to be a believable pairing at all. Chances are she will get such development and discover Lelouch is Zero again at some point.
man, I wish they could just undo all the memory loss and bring evil Shirley back.

but even if they could fix what Charles did, Lelouch's Order caused actual brain damage, she'll never be able to remember any of reasons she fell for him the first time, nor that she killed for him. ;_;

[KrimzonStriker]

That's a good thing as far as I can tell, otherwise we'll get more scenes of anxiety attacks like at the end of 14 :rolleyes:

[Sol Falling]

Well, if student council Lelouch is not what he wants to be, then what is? His mask of Zero is one borne primarily of necessity, although it also represents Lelouch's propensity for theatricality and manipulation. However, as much as Lelouch (and we as an audience) might enjoy the sense of power and ability being Zero gives him, that power and the desire to wield it is useless in the kind of world Lelouch wants for Nunally. Similarly, although you can say that Lelouch was happy during his life as a prince when he had Nunally, Euphie, and his mother around him, the way he lost them due to what seemed to be Britannia's own political in-dealings has irrevocably coloured his ability to appreciate that life and identity. For Lelouch, the only identity he has where he is surrounded by people he likes and genuinely believes to be good, worthwhile people, that he can respect on their own terms, is Lelouche Lamperouge of the student council.

Even Millay, who is another popular pairing among the people who see this side of Lelouch (damnit, I keep seeming to want to add an e to his name...anybody mind reminding me what the correct spelling is?), has a certain distance from him, due to her knowledge of his history and her family's influence on his livelihood. So as it stands, Shirley is really the only (living) girl who we can say likes Lelouche for his own self, without threatening him with her own motivations or interests.

I will concede that the timing of the kiss was desperation on Shirley's part, as she even admitted herself, but you can't really say that she didn't mean it. And actually, I have a rant about this whole 'real Lelouch' thing everybody keeps mentioning, so...here I go.

What all of you seem to think 'knowing a real person' means is simply the motivations, the secrets, the reasonings behind actions. But you know, have you actually ever had a relationship like that? Is that actually what it means to be friends, to be lovers? Just knowing, just understanding...that isn't the basis of trust, of mutual support, of history, of companionship. What is actually important in creating lasting, meaningful relationships is time--time to grow together, time to change, time to pick up on all the little things that make up a person as a whole. Life isn't just about a raison d'etre; small annoyances, arbitrary (or not so arbitrary) preferences, personal habits--these are all things that make up a person as a whole. These are the things that allow true mutualism, true companionship, true understanding. And to cultivate these things requires a wide berth of shared experiences, a history, a remembrance. To say the least, these are not the things that C.C., or god forbid Kallen, have had with Lelouch. Their paltry six months (or so) is nothing in the face of the years of history Lelouch has shared with Rivalz, Shirley, Milly, and most notably Suzaku. That is years they have had to learn each other's quirks, little flaws and small exceptionalities that make up their true natures--the people they are when they are just being themselves. If you want evidence of this, it's all over the place. Lelouch and Suzaku keep saying that the other has changed--and also that they are still Suzaku or Lelouch. What do they mean? What has changed, and what has stayed the same? In the Newtype Romance Special Sound Episode, Lelouch tells Rivalz that his strong point is his friendliness--Rivalz, who is ignored by the fandom which is fixated on Zero and his path to glory, is treasured by Lelouch for his openness and reliability. And Lelouch's parting lines in episode 14: "I never realized how often her smile saved me. We will never be able to laugh and argue like that again..." What Shirley has with Lelouch is history and happy memories. It is for this that he locks away his heart. It is for this that he takes revenge against Mao. It is for this that it seems like he will make a pledge (in episode 3).

It isn't guilt. Guilt is episode 22, as the dying Japanese cling to him and call him their saviour. What he feels for Shirley is true empathy, true sadness, a sincere desire to make her happy. Don't tell me he does what he does, says what he does, for his own sake.

[Dann of Thursday]

man, I wish they could just undo all the memory loss and bring evil Shirley back.

but even if they could fix what Charles did, Lelouch's Order caused actual brain damage, she'll never be able to remember any of reasons she fell for him the first time, nor that she killed for him. ;_;

Evil Shirley irritated me to be honest since she was quite whiney and desperate when dealing with the darker aspects of the world.

Well, there is always the chance that Lelouch order was somehow overridden if the Emperor did anything. I found her inital reasons for falling for him rather boring to tell you the truth. I still sometimes have a hard time considering what she felt as anything more than a crush until later.

That's a good thing as far as I can tell, otherwise we'll get more scenes of anxiety attacks like at the end of 14 :rolleyes:

Well, she could always endure it this time and make it out.

[ashlay]

That's a good thing as far as I can tell, otherwise we'll get more scenes of anxiety attacks like at the end of 14 :rolleyes:
she wasn't doing too bad in 14 until Mao showed up.

but point taken, she's not the focus of screen time around here.

[KrimzonStriker]

Well, she could always endure it this time and make it out.

She wouldn't be Shirely if she did that though, from my point of view. :uhoh:

[Dann of Thursday]

It is for this that he locks away his heart. It is for this that he takes revenge against Mao. It is for this that it seems like he will make a pledge (in episode 3).

It isn't guilt. Guilt is episode 22, as the dying Japanese cling to him and call him their saviour. What he feels for Shirley is true empathy, true sadness, a sincere desire to make her happy. Don't tell me he does what he does, says what he does, for his own sake.

I'm not going to address the rest of your post since I don't have the time to do so right now along with fact that all of it is simply your opinions with no real facutal basis to it. I don't mean to be insulting, but you seem to be one of those fans who are completely closeminded about any other pairing and caught up in how much your pairing has to happen.

Anyway, how do you know that? And he didn't take revenge for her. He took it because Mao was screwing with his plans and everyone close to him, not just for Shirley. And the line isn't a pledge really since he doesn't even finish it.

Yes it is. It is guilt over what he caused.

In any case, she'll win if only for the sake of a happy ending.

[Sol Falling]

no real factual basis for it? I've listed plenty of examples from the show. Maybe my rant about the 'nature of friendship' is opinion, but then I'd like to see how exactly you could disagree. And besides, your analysis of what Lelouch would like to do after winning it all doesn't exactly disagree with what I see as his true identity.

If you want me to pluck some quotes from episode 15, then I'll oblige you, but Lelouch's reactions to Mao and C.C.'s barbs don't exactly paint the picture of someone just looking out for his best interests. After all, if he was doing it just to get rid of a nuisance, it wouldn't be taking revenge, now would it?

And honestly, if you think Lelouch is portraying guilt in the way he reacts to Shirley and her suffering, I wonder if you actually know what it means to feel for another human being.

edit: ah, not to say, though, that I think Shirley x Lelouch has to happen. I've never indicated such, in any case. All I've ever said is that Shirley x Lelouch is the only realistic, empathetic, mutual pairing, on the basis of current developments and presuming a desire for Lelouch's happiness. And from the start I have claimed Lelouch x C.C. or Lelouch x Kallen more likely, due to their overwhelming popularity, plot relevence, and screentime.

edit2: also Var, I wasn't really calling that fan 'inarticulate' for my own sake. I was merely empathizing with the way Dann seems to have felt it. Actually, personally, I laughed my ass off at the posts that guy was making. Warmed my heart, it did.

[Dann of Thursday]

The examples have been twisted in some areas to fit your argument, though pretty much everyone does that here so I can't hold that against you at all.

Mao was a nuisance and a threat to him. He was also going to lose his accomplice to him and it was clear that Mao had no problems attacking people close to Lelouch. Mao said he didn't care about Lelouch if he had C.C..

Yes I think it is guilt. Are you saying that guilt doesn't factor anywhere in there? I never felt any sort of real emotional connection between them at all and Lelouch didn't notice anything until events forced it.

But your pairing is going to be the one so rejoice about it.

[Sol Falling]

Heh. The only thing I'm rejoicing about is that more people seem to have come around to it and are seriously discussing it as meaningful and possible. I'll have to actually see episode 3 before I can put any faith in it actually happening.

I think guilt may have factored into allowing the initial kiss, although Lelouch did kiss back. That was the only manipulative action on the part of Shirley, in that it was unexpected for Lelouch and didn't really give him any room to think about whether he wanted it or not. However, all later actions and reactions Lelouch had towards Shirley were based on his own kindness towards her and his desire for her to be happy. Listen to Lelouch's words as Shirley is clinging to him before he wipes her memory, notably:

"I wanted you to be kind to me."
"What's wrong with that?"

This line clearly highlights that Lelouch emphasizes with Shirley's feelings, and his willingness to act for her sake not because she thinks she deserves it, but because he does. Lelouch's lack of guilt is also demonstrated in his final solution to this dilemna: Lelouch isn't feeling the desire to atone for his sin, but rather, to erase Shirley's sadness from her heart. Because geassing her to forget doesn't actually provide anything to Shirley to compensate for her loss, it wouldn't actually relieve Lelouch of any guilt he may have felt. Instead, Lelouch gives up something of his own (his precious friendship with Shirley) to restore her happiness.

edit:

gah. Let me be more clear. Lelouch's actions do not in anyway reflect on him killing Shirley's father, and have no effect on the sadness she felt over his death (although, as we had seen in episode 13, Shirley had already been strong and mostly gotten over it). Rather, the source of conflict within Shirley's heart was that Lelouch was Zero, and also that she had killed for his sake (though this latter part was severely amplified by Mao). Lelouch's actions and sacrifice only extended as far as that part, and not the part about her father. Therefore, the only guilt you can peg on Lelouch for those actions is for the fact that he was actually Zero, not something that would make a particular amount of sense given that it's a bit irrational for him to expect that his very identity would be able to hurt someone he cared about.

[Dann of Thursday]

Episode 3 won't give any more evidence than episode 2 did with Kallen. Besides, as long as she has that fake personality with the false memories nothing is going to happen that would be meaningful.

How do you know he kissed back? And Lelouch was overcome by guilt and a need to comfort her. And what was he supposed to say other than that?

Meh, it doesn't matter what I say since the pairing is going to happen in the end no matter what.

[Sol Falling]

hm, Shirley's lack of reaction during the television scene in episode 2 is suspicious, but it's not enough for me to conclude that all of the student council have been brainwashed as well (after all, we only saw Lelouch being brought into the presence of the emperor).

Anyway, this seems to be a disputed point. However, if you go watch the ending of episode 12 again, you will see Lelouch tilt his head in and wrap his arms around her. That's pretty much 'kissing back' from my perspective--although, as I also mentioned before, this isn't really relevent in any case as I'm willing to concede he felt guilt there.

:p It's a bit tiring having to spell everything out for you, as you seemed to have missed the details, but listen to the tone of his voice. He sounds vehement, nearly righteous, as he voices those words. It is clear that Lelouch is not half-heartedly comforting Shirley at that point.

And really, believe what you want, but you've got way better chances than me. Have you looked at the polls? 72.34% want Lelouch x C.C. C.C. is the main heroine. C.C. is lonely, mysterious, and snippy. C.C. is sexy. What more could you want in a woman? What more could you want in an anime where the main character is all about breaking his bonds (oh my, I might have caught onto something here--breaking his bonds, in both the negative and positive sense, hm...?). With Lelouch acting as an avatar of escapism for the audience, C.C. is the perfect specimen of the distant, alluring woman they could never have.

And you know, what is your fixation with a happy ending for them? Lelouch isn't really a happy character. Who are you empathizing with? Who do you believe deserves a happy ending? As long as they get something out of their love, as long as it existed there in the first place, that's enough for a lot of people, because then they can indulge in further escapism about 'what could have been'.

[KrimzonStriker]

Uhmm I think Lelouch pretty much confirms that they are indeed brain-washed during the preview for Turn 4. It would also explain why everyone is okay with Rollo alongside the previously mind-wiped Lelouch >_>

[Marsala]

Well done, Dann. Your pessimism has become so extreme that you have gotten the other side to argue for you. :eyebrow:

Seriously, there is no reason that Lelouch can't have a happy ending with C.C. The only thing standing in between them is C.C.'s true nature/final fate, which is pure plot and so can be resolved by the writers any way that they want. And it's silly to argue that the show won't end with Shirley being disappointed in love, because the exact same argument applies to Kallen. One of them will definitely lose (um, excepting harem ending), so why not both of them?

The student council pretty much has to be brainwashed, either by the Emperor, Rollo's locket, or a combination of the two (maybe the locket is a focus for Charles's power?). Otherwise they would have to be really really really really REALLY gullible. Accepting Shirley's weird behavior towards Lelouch is one thing. Accepting Nunnally's disappearance and replacement by Rollo is several orders of magnitude stranger.

[KrimzonStriker]

Enough with the harem endings already! :frustrated:

[Sol Falling]

I haven't seen that part yet, so really I guess I'll have to put that on hold. Even if that would explain it, other explanations could work too, and as I said the brainwashing would require its own explanation of how they did it. And yet even then, we wouldn't know the extent of the brainwashing, as in 'why would the Emperor erase Shirley's knowledge that Lelouch is Zero?'. Even presuming he could somehow find out that she knew, why would it be to his advantage to erase that knowledge?

And yet even further, that doesn't necessarily negate the point of Lelouch's scenes with Shirley, particularly since it is Lelouch, who has had his memory restored, who says the most meaningful line (you know, even if Shirley no longer had the same memories as before and therefore couldn't love Lelouch the way she did before, having Lelouch actually care about her on that level is still a significant advantage over any of the other pairings). And even further than that, as has been brought to my attention by two helpful posters in this thread, Masquerade apparently plays during their scenes, which once again leads me back to the 'You're my Destiny' thing that I first posted when I entered this thread.

:P so seriously, just let me wait and see episode 3 for myself before you start trying to brainwash me with all your strange ideas.

[Dann of Thursday]

The fact that the Emperor would have to be the one to do it is the only suspicious thing, but the fact they all accept that Rollo is Lelouch's brother and do not question about Nunnally pretty much means they have been brainwashed somehow. The preview for episode 4 indicates this as well.

I'll give you that one. I simply want to point out that romance was kept completely out of season 1 so none of the scenes with any of the girls may have much meaning in that sense.

I'm an idiot when it comes to choosing pairings. Any pairing I ever picked out either didn't happen, ended tragically, or ended tragically and then the main character went with another girl.

Bah, polls mean nothing and do not reflect what happens in a series. Besides, I have seen plenty of other polls where people hate LelouchXC.C. and favor either Shirley or Kallen.

I don't have much to be positive about in my life so seeing things go well in anime, books, and such cheer me up from time to time. Lelouch certainly isn't a happy character, but none of Taniguchi's other characters were either and all of them were able to achieve a happy ending of some kind. I'm not very intelligent when it comes to matters like this. I can't be deep about anything really.

And C.C. is the symbol of someone no one could ever have, which is why that pairing has no chance really.

Seriously, there is no reason that Lelouch can't have a happy ending with C.C. The only thing standing in between them is C.C.'s true nature/final fate, which is pure plot and so can be resolved by the writers any way that they want. And it's silly to argue that the show won't end with Shirley being disappointed in love, because the exact same argument applies to Kallen. One of them will definitely lose (um, excepting harem ending), so why not both of them?

How would a happy ending with them even work though? It could be resolved, but why would they? Wouldn't it be too much of a Deux Ex Machina?