View Full Version : Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll
Welcome to the discussion thread for Nanoha, Episode 20.
Thread Guidelines
Raw requests and offers are not permitted anywhere on this forum.
Spoilers about future events must not be posted in this thread.
If you need to reference something that would spoil a future event, reply directly with a private message (http://forums.animesuki.com/faq.php?faq=vb_board_usage#faq_vb_pm_explain).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if it has not aired yet.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Please try to keep the discussion on topic.
Spoiler Policy
Any spoiler that reveals future events, even under a spoiler tag, will be deleted.
Spoiler tags should still be used where appropriate.
Adding a Spoiler tag:
spoiler.gif
Just highlight your spoiler and click the button found
on the "Quick Reply" and "Reply to Thread" forms.
Make sure that you include a title for the spoiler!
Please use the Report button if you see any spoilers:
report.gif
Click the button found to the left of the post, just under the poster's avatar.
Using the Report button is anonymous and helps the Moderators
to locate and deal with problems quickly.
Posting prohibited spoilers may result in a ban.
Note: Reporting a post does not mean the poster will be banned instantly.
The Moderators will use bans if warnings are repeatedly ignored.
Darco_emp
2007-08-12, 09:27
Let the fireworks start :D
Let the fireworks start :DI have a complaint. Yesy seems to have ran out of crack, and we're back to being 5 episodes behind. :rolleyes:
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-12, 09:35
Let the fireworks start :D
I'm interested in how they would deal with the remaining numbers...
From the OP we know that Team Lightning (minus Fate) will be taking on Team Lutecia.
Subaru + Teana would be trying to stop the Numbers (plus Ginga) heading to GC.
That's about 6 combat-efficient Numbers remaining. Assuming 'V' isn't healed in time.
I have a complaint. Yesy seems to have ran out of crack, and we're back to being 5 episodes behind. :rolleyes:
Need more tension for 'Dragon Install' :p
Darco_emp
2007-08-12, 09:41
I have a complaint. Yesy seems to have ran out of crack, and we're back to being 5 episodes behind. :rolleyes:
Now now, there is no crying over fansubs Kha-tan.
After Jail's presentation to the world. I wonder if that old fool of the ground force have started to feel the heat also the angst level of Subaru is going to feel in this episode and upcoming episodes with the developments last week.
That's about 6 combat-efficient Numbers remaining.
They're headed for GC too, but from the other Einherjar sites. If Tia and Subaru are going straight for Ginga's group, they wouldn't meet the other 6 until they reach GC.
Assuming 'V' isn't healed in time.
I had forgotten she was disabled when I tailled up who was where in the last episode. Thanks for reminding me. If she's repaired in time, perhaps the Doctor might keep her on the Cradle to repel boarders.
I wonder if that old fool of the ground force have started to feel the heat
Reguis seems to have suffered complete collapse. This is going to be bad. His people are screaming for orders and he's wallowing in his own fears. Coward.
I'm interested in how they would deal with the remaining numbers...
From the OP we know that Team Lightning (minus Fate) will be taking on Team Lutecia.
Subaru + Teana would be trying to stop the Numbers (plus Ginga) heading to GC.
That's about 6 combat-efficient Numbers remaining. Assuming 'V' isn't healed in time.And Nanoha's gonna solo the Cradle? Sounds like an overconfident tank to me. :heh:
Let the fireworks start :D
Yes lets... I assume that I'll have to bring my laptop in tomorrow to grab the raw?
I have a complaint. Yesy seems to have ran out of crack, and we're back to being 5 episodes behind. :rolleyes:
pfft... We're getting along fine watching the raws.... Although I can only understand 10% of it max... Hopefully the clubroom isn't too noisy tomorrow so I can actually hear what they're saying....
And Nanoha's gonna solo the Cradle? Sounds like an overconfident tank to me. :heh:
Well assuming they find out where Vivio is in the ship, she can just blow the crap out of the rest of it...:heh:
Nightengale
2007-08-12, 10:19
And Nanoha's gonna solo the Cradle? Sounds like an overconfident tank to me. :heh:
Board Room Discussion at Seven Arcs.
"NO means NO! Nanoha cannot be a planet-destroyer, not at 9, not at 19, NOT EVER!"
"But the fans had been asking for it! Look at this! StrikerS sold extremely well, losing only to Geass and Lucky Star! This is because we do what they want to see."
"Some NF fanservice without crossing the line, that's fine. We've done that in S1 and A's, a little extra here doesn't matter. White Devil is fine, so long as there's a good reason behind it. But not PLANET DESTROYER!! How the hell are we supposed to do a possible S4 then!?"
"How about... soloing something that can destroy planets instead?"
"...No, that's no different by much. If Nanoha can beat a planet-destroying mage, or whatever magic weapon, it's still the same."
"How about a CONVENTIONAL weapon then?"
"Wouldn't that mess with the idea of having an A.Mage as its core?"
"Screw details."
"You're probably right. Okay, script's done. STORYBOARD GUYS!!!"
octoberasian
2007-08-12, 10:31
Board Room Discussion at Seven Arcs.
"NO means NO! Nanoha cannot be a planet-destroyer, not at 9, not at 19, NOT EVER!"
"But the fans had been asking for it! Look at this! StrikerS sold extremely well, losing only to Geass and Lucky Star! This is because we do what they want to see."
"Some NF fanservice without crossing the line, that's fine. We've done that in S1 and A's, a little extra here doesn't matter. White Devil is fine, so long as there's a good reason behind it. But not PLANET DESTROYER!! How the hell are we supposed to do a possible S4 then!?"
"How about... soloing something that can destroy planets instead?"
"...No, that's no different by much. If Nanoha can beat a planet-destroying mage, or whatever magic weapon, it's still the same."
"How about a CONVENTIONAL weapon then?"
"Wouldn't that mess with the idea of having an A.Mage as its core?"
"Screw details."
"You're probably right. Okay, script's done. STORYBOARD GUYS!!!"
After seeing Vivio strapped into the Cradle from last week, I'd expect Nanoha go berserk on that ship, and nothing less. Like, cut out the excess and head straight to the core. It's simple; efficient, even if it means turning Nanoha into an all-out planet destroyer. :innocent::heh:
Or... better yet:http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/6639/akibakko118667077235344wr7.jpg
Go, go Rena-from-Higurashi-mode!!
(Thanks Nightengale for the picture you posted. ~.^)
And Nanoha's gonna solo the Cradle? Sounds like an overconfident tank to me. :heh:
Aren't you forgetting about Fate and Hayate?
This might be more reasonable: Fate and Nanoha enter the Cradle, destroy a couple of Jail's minions (drones, Numbers, and more generally whatever might be in the wrong place at the wrong time), get Vivio, exit the ship episode-1-style, and as soon as she sees they're safe, Hayate nukes the Cradle.
While Nanoha can only make a big hole in such a huge ship, I think only Hayate can destroy it completely with one shot.
octoberasian
2007-08-12, 10:37
Aren't you forgetting about Fate and Hayate?
This might be more reasonable: Fate and Nanoha enter the Cradle, destroy a couple of Jail's minions (drones, Numbers, and more generally whatever might be in the wrong place at the wrong time), get Vivio, exit the ship episode-1-style, and as soon as she sees they're safe, Hayate nukes the Cradle.
While Nanoha can only make a big hole in such a huge ship, I think only Hayate can destroy it completely with one shot.
That works, too. Just have Chrono unlock Hayate's Limiter and let her go all out [Unison-mode] on the Cradle after Vivio's rescued. TSAB will not even have to bother with cleanup after that. ^^b
Estavali
2007-08-12, 10:45
If the OP is to be trusted, chances of Fate cutting her way into the Cradle (and popping Zamber into the nearest very cheerful scientist and cyborg for luck) and Nanoha pulling a X-Wing-vs-Death-Star-01 on the outside should be very high.
*Note: All the above are just SPECULATIONS.*
If the OP is to be trusted, chances of Fate cutting her way into the Cradle (and popping Zamber into the nearest very cheerful scientist and cyborg for luck) and Nanoha pulling a X-Wing-vs-Death-Star-01 on the outside should be very high.
*Note: All the above are just SPECULATIONS.*And there's that megami "call-in" article about Nanoha and Fate going their separate ways... Chances are, the Doc and the Cradle are in 2 different places. So both are going to happen, but not in the same place. Hayate is the Arc~en~ciel nuke trigger, so little chance of seeing her casting a spell herself again.
With all 3 Aces in different places, and the Forwards all tied up in their own battles, that's why I said Nanoha's gonna solo Cradle boss, and that sounds h4xx. :eyespin:
Deathkillz
2007-08-12, 10:53
and dont forget about subaru O.O she will be kicking some ass to get ginga nee back (hopefully hers :heh:)
Board Room Discussion at Seven Arcs. (snipped)
You know, they never actually said the Cradle was a conventional (non-magical) weapon in the anime. Some new magazine scans suggest that it can draw magical power from Mid's moons. It's possible the non-magical part has been ditched. Hopefully, we'll have concrete info one way or another in this ep.
krisslanza
2007-08-12, 11:21
Well, couldn't a non-magical weapon still use magic as it's power source? It seems like magic is a highly potent energy, and the attack it uses might not be magical in origin but just needs magical energy to power it. *Shrug*
God damn this episode is boring so far.
However..
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1438/vlcsnap739523ig3.png
talking brains is a bit too much.
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8225/vlcsnap740276ik8.png
<_<
>_>
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/9739/vlcsnap742656ho5.png
Mirificus
2007-08-12, 11:28
Well, couldn't a non-magical weapon still use magic as it's power source? It seems like magic is a highly potent energy, and the attack it uses might not be magical in origin but just needs magical energy to power it. *Shrug*
How would using magic as its power source not make it a magical weapon?
Dream_Traveller
2007-08-12, 11:33
@aers:
Well, maybe those brains are a power source to...something, instead of them being talking.
As for the Dr/Numbers height comparison/prison type thing shot...nice eyecatch. :D
God damn this episode is boring so far.
However..
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8225/vlcsnap740276ik8.png
<_<
>_>
Is that...
Due?!
Yeah, Carim just dropped a limiter release on everyone, and Due just assassinated all of TSAB high council (the brains). She's the chick with blue hair. Nanoha went exceed mode off the bat, too.
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/6084/vlcsnap745089gz6.png
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9331/vlcsnap746379mq1.png
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9541/vlcsnap747591mt8.png
Sorry I was too busy going oh damn to screencap her in number uniform.
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8273/vlcsnap747980lc4.png
preview
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/7503/vlcsnap750478mt6.png
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/1293/vlcsnap750499vk0.png
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/8340/vlcsnap750530ud8.png
Dream_Traveller
2007-08-12, 11:37
Looks a tad too much like Uno to be Due...
But I could be wrong, of course.
EDIT: Crud, I was proved wrong. :heh:
Looks like we've finally got all the pieces from Prophecy...
Well, damn, Jail himself being "Codename: Unlimited Desire" was UNexpected :eyespin:
And as the matter of fact, Due was a new character... :uhoh::heh::uhoh::heh:
Deathkillz
2007-08-12, 12:01
Yeah, Carim just dropped a limiter release on everyone, and Due just assassinated all of TSAB high council (the brains). She's the chick with blue hair. Nanoha went exceed mode off the bat, too.
hahaha!!! floating brains!!! :D and she is keeping them alive because...?
gah nanoha using her special card already...what a spoil sport >.<
oops my mistake XD
Due was mentioned before. We were just waiting for her to show up till now. I think their definition of "new character" was "someone you never saw or heard of before" like the Numbers before episode 10.
No wonder the TSAB has been so lead-footed. Their High Council is (was) brains floating in tanks. How many people in the TSAB knew that?
One other thing, I'm sure those 3 brains had been around for while and had been planing on sticking around even longer. You wouldn't do that if you just planning on being High Councilor or just 8 years or something.
hahaha!!! floating brains!!! :D and she is keeping them alive because...?
gah nanoha using her special card already...what a spoil sport >.<no, her trump card is blaster mode, which fate talked to her about this episode, like rein in the past one.
Dark Wing
2007-08-12, 12:13
So Due was spying on the TSAB the whole time and took out the think tanks too (Well out with the old I say).
Man I can't to see this but I've got to go to work soon!:upset:
Due was mentioned before. We were just waiting for her to show up till now. I think their definition of "new character" was "someone you never saw or heard of before" like the Numbers before episode 10.Well, you're right.
But still, I kind of expected her to be appeared earlier in the series... :rolleyes:One other thing, I'm sure those 3 brains had been around for while and had been planing on sticking around even longer. You wouldn't do that if you just planning on being High Councilor or just 8 years or something.Apparently they ARE the person created TSAB, that explains their being old enough to ditch their raw meat.
However, one of them expressed that by now they can't last that much longer.
Anyway, according to Due, Jail is "Orphan of Alhazard" that has knowledge of lost technology and infinite desire within him, and it was High Council that found and raised him.
His production codename was "Unlimited Desire"... now, what was the prophecy?
Anyway... I've never thought I'd hear the name "Alhazard" in StS, and looks like Jail, too, was a created being.
W
Anyway, according to Due, Jail is "Orphan of Alhazard" that has knowledge of lost technology and infinite desire within him, and it was High Council that found and raised him.
His production codename was "Unlimited Desire"... now, what was the prophecy?
Anyway... I've never thought I'd hear the name "Alhazard" in StS, and looks like Jail, too, was a created being.
Yes! I was right about him being created artificially though his codename and reasoning was unexpected O.o
"Unlimited desire"Hmmm so does that mean he will always be itching to develop and experiment on something till everything blew up like alhazard :heh:
Nightengale
2007-08-12, 12:41
Well, Jail being possibly a created being himself wasn't unexpected (( to me at least )), but linked to Al-Hazard!? Now, that's a twist, though I don't know if it's actually going to be a huge plot-device or just something to spazz Fate a little.
Whispered much lol? Though for someone like him, he sure needs a lot of scavenging... @_@
Though Nao...I mean Due was surprising a bit. At least now we get to see the complete triangle of Jail's earliest and arguably most loyal Numbers.
I've never thought I'd hear the name "Alhazard" in StS
Wasn't that the world who created what's now known as "Lost Logias"?
Wasn't that the world who created what's now known as "Lost Logias"?
Yeah, it is also the world that Precia tried to find in S1.
Btw they sort of fixed the "cradle" design ...it look much cooler now xD
Though Nao...I mean Due
Glad I'm not the only one who thought this immediately >_>
Any sign of Due's IS? Is it her assassination tools?
Though for someone like him, he sure needs a lot of scavenging...
If you think about it, it's highly appropriate. Someone who is "infinite desire", always wanting more than what he has, more than what he can do.
Nightengale
2007-08-12, 12:55
Any sign of Due's IS? Is it her assassination tools?
We have no idea what her IS is (( maybe it is, but we're not sure )), but as far as the equipment goes...
Ever watched Mai-Hime?
Just think Nao minus the Child. Right down to the finger claw lick and the sadistic-side.
I'd post a pic if only Shack and Bucket aren't being total asses atm...
Edit : Ah, B's back to me.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/chiakt/001.jpg
And am I the only who thinks that the last NxF scene there made them look like they're 9 again? @_@
Key Board
2007-08-12, 13:04
I'm confused about the new ancient Belka emperor ancestry sub plot
furthermore, this episode was not very well directed IMO, because it tried to tell instead of show things
at the very least everything from now on will be non stop action and minimum yapping
I wonder what Fate's limit break mode is like... probably Sonic Mode on crack
anyway, here's how the route split is divided
Cradle: Nanoha, Vita, Hayate and a bunch of aerial mage backups
Scag: Fate, Schach, Verossa
Numbers: Subaru, Teana, Erio, Caro, Signum, Reinforce
Deathkillz
2007-08-12, 13:11
And am I the only who thinks that the last NxF scene there made them look like they're 9 again? @_@
just look at her barrier jacket...its beyond redemption :rolleyes:
and LOLOL that was what i though of first...duo's weapon is just like nao's XD
pretty meh ep...but at last we are getting some action ~ jail is as evil looking as ever *muhahahaha!* and ofc we have the floating brains...geez can it be anymore cliched than this? XD
Some Duo's SS ...that scene where she licked the claw is exactly like what Nao did in Mai Hime
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7239/111fx7.th.png (http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=111fx7.png)
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6060/facejq5.th.png (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=facejq5.png)
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/9051/face1jx3.th.png (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=face1jx3.png)
An Hero in Disguise
2007-08-12, 13:14
I'm confused about the new ancient Belka emperor ancestry sub plot
furthermore, this episode was not very well directed IMO, because it tried to tell instead of show things
at the very least everything from now on will be non stop action and minimum yapping
I wonder what Fate's limit break mode is like... probably Sonic Mode on crack
anyway, here's how the route split is divided
Cradle: Nanoha, Vita, Hayate and a bunch of aerial mage backups
Scag: Fate, Schach, Verossa
Numbers: Subaru, Teana, Erio, Caro, Signum, Reinforce
Rein and Hayate are in separate groups ... Does it mean Unison with Signum instead?
So I guess 5 and 2 = Assassin duet.
Just think Nao minus the Child. Right down to the finger claw lick
Now what exactly is that yellow substance she's licking? Yuck!
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-12, 13:17
Rein and Hayate are in separate groups ... Does it mean Unison with Signum instead?
That's most likely a given, seeing as how Signum will be fightning Zest.
Btw, do they seriously need another set-up episode? One would figure they have all the motivation and determination they'll need since last episode... Planning isn't exactly too difficult seeing that their operation isn't complex at all...
"It means, I go this way (>.>) , and you go that way (<.<) !"
Nightengale
2007-08-12, 13:20
just look at her barrier jacket...its beyond redemption :rolleyes:
and LOLOL that was what i though of first...duo's weapon is just like nao's XD
pretty meh ep...but at last we are getting some action ~ jail is as evil looking as ever *muhahahaha!* and ofc we have the floating brains...geez can it be anymore cliched than this? XD
Well, your saying previously on Nanoha's mode, her regular normal mode we see her use in StrikerS 80% of the time, Aggressor is probably one specialized for in training and mock-battle executions than actual destructive force. Exceed is most likely the real 'normal' mode for RH, while Blaster/Limit Break is the Full Drive-equivalent.
Anyway, Jail actually looks half-decent in this episode. I mean, he looks like he's high last episode, but he's surprisingly back to the more fufufufu~ kind rather than the dancing HAPPY DREAM!Jail of last episode. Let's hope it stays this time.
Rein and Hayate are in separate groups ... Does it mean Unison with Signum instead?
Yep. Unison with Vita was already shown, and unison with Hayate, if any, will wait until the grand finale.
FlareKnight
2007-08-12, 13:21
Guess they didn't want to show off what Unison Signum was in the OP. But yeah with Rein out with her it seems pretty likely we'll get them unison and going after Zest.
Pretty much my thoughts went, ok Hayate is on the bridge of Asura. Carim isn't with Chrono so where the heck could he be. Nice of them to handle my question well and show that pretty quick. So looks like he's leading the fleet right now. Just hope that entails doing something and not sitting up there for the rest of the series giving his opinion on this. Unless its something like "This is boring...should've stayed with Carim" :)
Pretty certain I caught them mentioning Alhazard as well.
Appears next week is when things are going to get intresting. This just gave the last speaches and pep talks before going for it. Yeah the floating brains was something odd. Well nice of Jail to get rid of the poor parts of TSAB so when Nanoha and co win they can take over.
Now what exactly is that yellow substance she's licking? Yuck!
Brain's liquid maybe :heh: something to stabilize/connect them to the machine.
So Chrono most likely would be fighting ala Gundam's Battleship commander instead of going out himself >.<
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/706/ss01hw0.th.png (http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss01hw0.png)
He is definitely slacking :p
Anyway, Jail actually looks half-decent in this episode. I mean, he looks like he's high last episode, but he's surprisingly back to the more fufufufu~ kind rather than the dancing HAPPY DREAM!Jail of last episode. Let's hope it stays this time.
Yeah notice that too ...somehow he looks a bit like bishonen :heh: kinda weird after getting used to previous episodes.
Key Board
2007-08-12, 13:22
most of the episode was wasted on naze nani nanoha presented by Jail Scaglieti
I am disappointed really
SHOW, DON'T TELL!
FlareKnight
2007-08-12, 13:25
Brain's liquid maybe :heh: something to stabilize/connect them to the machine.
So Chrono most likely would be fighting ala Gundam's Battleship commander instead of going out himself >.<
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/706/ss01hw0.th.png (http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss01hw0.png)
He is definitely slacking :p
Can't blame him. He saw what's happened to the other guys this season and is playing it safe. At least he can do some cool commands and orders to fire all weapons.
Nightengale
2007-08-12, 13:25
That's most likely a given, seeing as how Signum will be fightning Zest.
Btw, do they seriously need another set-up episode? One would figure they have all the motivation and determination they'll need since last episode... Planning isn't exactly too difficult seeing that their operation isn't complex at all...
"It means, I go this way (>.>) , and you go that way (<.<) !"
This episode is really less on the team divisions, but more on the proceedings of the last non-within-climax plot exposition, from the whole "Cradle/Saint/Ancient Belka" nonsense, alongside some minor handiwork on Jail revelation along with all that stuff.
Though I do think that the Fate-Elio-Caro and the Nanoha-Fate scene was really unnecessary. The Subaru-Tea one was okay... but not the other 2 bond-moments. It felt unnecessarily padded to show what we already know of them. (( I mean, do we REALLY need to know that Fate's worried about Nanoha and vice-versa and not overdo themselves!? ))
Deathkillz
2007-08-12, 13:27
Btw, do they seriously need another set-up episode? One would figure they have all the motivation and determination they'll need since last episode... Planning isn't exactly too difficult seeing that their operation isn't complex at all...
"It means, I go this way (>.>) , and you go that way (<.<) !"
well that and a bunch of other blab they have to inform the viewers about before heading off for the epix battle...not to mention that the forwards are going "this (^.^) way"
Well, your saying previously on Nanoha's mode, her regular normal mode we see her use in StrikerS 80% of the time, Aggressor is probably one specialized for in training and mock-battle executions than actual destructive force. Exceed is most likely the real 'normal' mode for RH, while Blaster/Limit Break is the Full Drive-equivalent.
but i still think that her aggressor mode looks better...its more gown up than her usual full length dress type barrier jacket which i thought she had left a few years back ~ out it pops again >.<
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-12, 13:31
Can't blame him. He saw what's happened to the other guys this season and is playing it safe. At least he can do some cool commands and orders to fire all weapons.
Who uses a fleet these days? They should do it PotC style, two ships going head to head in the middle of a swirling vortex of doom :p
Besides in shows, the larger your numbers, the least likely you'll be to succeed :p
Key Board
2007-08-12, 13:36
by the way, I realized that Cinque is still not present
still in repairs?
FUBAR?
converted into a household appliance?
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-12, 13:38
So Chrono most likely would be fighting ala Gundam's Battleship commander instead of going out himself >.<
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/706/ss01hw0.th.png (http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss01hw0.png)
Don't tell me my fears are about to come true :twitch:
Btw, those ships look like whales :heh:
He is definitely slacking :p
"Kentai life return"? :)
This episode is really less on the team divisions, but more on the proceedings of the last non-within-climax plot exposition, from the whole "Cradle/Saint/Ancient Belka" nonsense, alongside some minor handiwork on Jail revelation along with all that stuff.
Yeah, but can't they reveal that along the way?
Sigh...
Though I do think that the Fate-Elio-Caro and the Nanoha-Fate scene was really unnecessary. The Subaru-Tea one was okay... but not the other 2 bond-moments. It felt unnecessarily padded to show what we already know of them. (( I mean, do we REALLY need to know that Fate's worried about Nanoha and vice-versa and not overdo themselves!? ))
We definately don't, but who knows? Maybe Hayate's Ominous message in her interview would actually mean something.
Who uses a fleet these days? They should do it PotC style, two ships going head to head in the middle of a swirling vortex of doom :p
Besides in shows, the larger your numbers, the least likely you'll be to succeed :p
They make a good cannon fodder though and better visual effect of destruction made from the battle (Gundam/Macross/Heroic Age?)....
Pretty sure all those ship gonna get blown up by Jail's Cradle super cannon mentioned in the magazine or something similar :heh:
and Chrono's miraculously survived :uhoh:
Btw, those ships look like whales
Then we will have lots of roasted whales next week :p
by the way, I realized that Cinque is still not present
still in repairs?
FUBAR?
converted into a household appliance?
Probably still in repairs though it is weird how Ginga was ready but not Cinque.When they are supposedly more familiar with Cinque specification/body.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-12, 13:41
well that and a bunch of other blab they have to inform the viewers about before heading off for the epix battle...not to mention that the forwards are going "this (^.^) way"
I still don't get that 'epic' feel :heh:
And I know I'm not the only one.
by the way, I realized that Cinque is still not present
still in repairs?
FUBAR?
converted into a household appliance?
While she's at it, it doesn't hurt to get another eye fixed in place...
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-12, 13:48
They make a good cannon fodder though and better visual effect of destruction made from the battle (Gundam/Macross/Heroic Age?)....
Pretty sure all those ship gonna get blown up by Jail's Cradle super cannon mentioned in the magazine or something similar :heh:
I hope not, here's the Navy's chance to finally show off... :heh:
And besides, Yuuno warned everyone about what the 'Cradle' can do, right?
Oh wait, it's Chrono... :uhoh:
Probably still in repairs though it is weird how Ginga was ready but not Cinque.When they are supposedly more familiar with Cinque specification/body.
I think she was much more badly injured.
They should give us a major Ship to Ship, Mage to Number, AMF vs AAMF beamspam battle, with cool music, like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIRujOQQAO4)!
But... Alas... the roasted whales. :rolleyes:
FlareKnight
2007-08-12, 14:01
Yeah having a large fleet usually is a sign of doom for some reason. Can see Chrono and the Asura being the two ships that end up going up against Jails flying..ship thing in a destructive battle. Still waiting for a ship to ram into it though and give a nice sense of sacrifice there. Asura is probably the candidate for that. Or at least if the fleet goes down that might force Chrono to come out fighting.
Well since we are in space they could do battle around a black hole or something to that degree :).
Nightengale
2007-08-12, 14:08
So, do anyone know for sure Zest's family name? Zest...Grangaize... or something like that.
And he was a TSAB Striker-class mage/Regius's close friend in the past...
Estavali
2007-08-12, 14:10
Is it just me, or does Due looks exactly like that lady shown during Jail's story-telling session?
Add-On:
Judging from the preview, the Forwards' opponents would be exactly whoever that was shown fighting them in the OP: Tia vs Wendi and Deed, Carol and Eriol vs Lutecia and Garyuu.
Though if Gin-nee is included in the up-coming showdown, Subaru might be in a pinch. Since she'll be handling both her and Nove, and possibly by herself only too. (Come to think of it, the Star Forwards got the worse end of the bargain again.)
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-12, 14:14
And he was a TSAB Striker-class mage/Regius's close friend in the past...
So... Why is he a Knight now? :heh:
(Death Knight :eek:!)
Nightengale
2007-08-12, 14:26
Is it just me, or does Due looks exactly like that lady shown during Jail's story-telling session?
Isn't it OBVIOUSLY her?
How else could he obtain the biological data of the Saint Emperor? Though that would mean that unlike the Type-0s... Jail's Numbers don't age physically...well, that or they age as gracefully as he does. For someone's who's clearly relatively old himself, he doesn't look a day over 30... at least in this episode.
Estavali
2007-08-12, 14:32
Isn't it OBVIOUSLY her?
How else could he obtain the biological data of the Saint Emperor? Though that would mean that unlike the Type-0s... Jail's Numbers don't age physically. (( at least the first 5 models ))
Ah, is that how things are? At times like this, I lament my lack of moon-speakability.
In this case, one wonders how old that story is. I was in the impression that it was a very old story, as in centuries old.
Another thought. Was Due fully-human (and later turned into a STKJ) then, or was she already(?) an agent sent by the Doc?
Nightengale
2007-08-12, 14:35
Ah, is that how things are? In this case, one wonders how old that story is.
10 years ago.
Estavali
2007-08-12, 14:37
Ah, thanks :).
*Sits down for more re-watching, and patiently awaiting for flsnow*
Nightengale
2007-08-12, 14:42
Another thought. Was Due fully-human (and later turned into a STKJ) then, or was she already(?) an agent sent by the Doc?
Quattro was already a Sentoukijin, activated at least more than 10 years ago (( since she was upgraded incorporating ECM into her 10 years ago )), as stated in her profiles.
Meanwhile, Uno, Due and Tre are the ones who had been the longest with Jail... how long, we don't know. However, it can be presumed that it's at least around 11 to 15 years..AT LEAST. So, yeah... if it's really her (( quite obvious really )), then Due is already a cyborg then.
Estavali
2007-08-12, 14:50
Quattro was already a Sentoukijin, activated at least more than 10 years ago (( since she was upgraded incorporating ECM into her 10 years ago )), as stated in her profiles.
Meanwhile, Uno, Due and Tre are the ones who had been the longest with Jail... how long, we don't know. However, it can be presumed that it's at least around 11 to 15 years..AT LEAST. So, yeah... if it's really her (( quite obvious really )), then Due is already a cyborg then.
Hmm, if so, from what I gathered by just watching (and hardly understanding), she appeared to be sent there to get VERY close to the High Priest, no? Seducing him (?) and using him to get what the Doc needed. Is this correct?
Rather than an assassin, I would say that Due fits more into the image of a kunoichi.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-12, 14:59
So... The summaries should be rolling in... Anytime now right? :heh:
(Sure it might be a boring episode but...)
FlareKnight
2007-08-12, 15:07
Oh yeah I'm sure the summaries are coming soon. Not much to say without understanding much of the language. Just seemed like our prep episode before things go crazy and we have a ton of fighting for the next 6 episodes.
An Hero in Disguise
2007-08-12, 15:19
Summary? Everybody talks a lot, even weird brains in glass tubes (at least they're shut up in the end :rolleyes:). Then RF6 heads out to battle. :heh:
- - -
And am I the only who thinks that the last NxF scene there made them look like they're 9 again? @_@
Yeah, I mentioned that. It looked ... weird.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-12, 15:40
Summary? Everybody talks a lot, even weird brains in glass tubes (at least they're shut up in the end :rolleyes:). Then RF6 heads out to battle. :heh:
So I've heard, but what exactly did they (as in all of them) say?
Yeah, I mentioned that. It looked ... weird.
Probably done on purpose... I don't know, these people bought the wrong brand of weed this season...
Key Board
2007-08-12, 15:43
So... Why is he a Knight now? :heh:
(Death Knight :eek:!)
pointless? trivia: a knight/kishi is anyone who specializes in Velka style. It is a certification given by the church rather than the TSAB, however.
Erio is considered a "Squire"
Subaru while Belka-styled, is considered a "Mage"
equinoxcluster
2007-08-12, 15:44
Ummmm....okay this doesn't have much to do with the episode (couldn't understand too much of it with my Japanese), but with all the talk of cyborgs and technology, but does anyone else think there could be the slightest chance of Nanoha having some cyborg body parts? I mean, remember how she stopped Subaru's arm in episode 8 with her bare fist AND Nanoha had been injured almost beyond repair at some point. Maybe that's why Nanoha now has buster mode, because she could handle it as a cyborg. OR maybe I'm just crazy. Just specualating though....
Key Board
2007-08-12, 15:47
well... if you go by that reasoning...
I think Raging Heart is a lost logia
so there...
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-12, 15:48
I think Raging Heart is a lost logia
And we all know that's not possible...
An Hero in Disguise
2007-08-12, 15:53
And we all know that's not possible...
Yeah, I guess it would've been noticed then.
But will they ever reveal how Yuuno got it in the first place?
- - -
There was a bit of fighting around the "Cradle" shown in the episode and the ship itself didn't seem to fight back ... Does it only have big cannons?
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-12, 15:55
pointless? trivia: a knight/kishi is anyone who specializes in Velka style. It is a certification given by the church rather than the TSAB, however.
Yes, but if he was considered a mage THEN, why is he a knight now?
Was he unofficially certified now? Is it self-proclaim? If so then fine.
Erio is considered a "Squire"
Subaru while Belka-styled, is considered a "Mage"
A Squire is a knight-in-training, so no problem there.
Subaru's an oddball to begin with.
But will they ever reveal how Yuuno got it in the first place?
I heard the word 'digging' somewhere before...
- - -
There was a bit of fighting around the "Cradle" shown in the episode and the ship itself didn't seem to fight back ... Does it only have big cannons?
Or worse, it has only one weapon.
Key Board
2007-08-12, 16:20
Yes, but if he was considered a mage THEN, why is he a knight now?
Was he unofficially certified now? Is it self-proclaim? If so then fine.
I think he was always a knight. You can be both. (Hayate is another example)
Once you are knighted, you are knight.
Once you pass the TSAB exams you receive a mage rank.
It has been revealed in the filler manga chapters that Erio is aiming to be a "knight". This seems to imply that he participated in some knight training program somewhere.
The Church probably offers other titles as well. Schach is a "Sister" for instance
..
I mean, remember how she stopped Subaru's arm in episode 8 with her bare fist
With her bare fist and her insane amount of magical power.
And yes, Raging Heart wasn't in staff form, but it wasn't dormant either, since her Barrier Jacket was still there.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-12, 18:02
I think he was always a knight. You can be both. (Hayate is another example)
Once you are knighted, you are knight.
Once you pass the TSAB exams you receive a mage rank.
It has been revealed in the filler manga chapters that Erio is aiming to be a "knight". This seems to imply that he participated in some knight training program somewhere.
The Church probably offers other titles as well. Schach is a "Sister" for instance
..
I see... Thanks...
With her bare fist and her insane amount of magical power.
And yes, Raging Heart wasn't in staff form, but it wasn't dormant either, since her Barrier Jacket was still there.
Acutally, Raising Heart didn't affect her magic amount. Raising Heart only affects her spell, and because she wasn't using any (I mean any of her 'crafted' spells), RH isn't an issue.
Other than that minor part, I agree.
Caps
http://blog.seiha.org/?p=259
Not really a fan of the episode. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much exposition and just random chattering on and on and on and not nearly enough heavy petting.
Er... action.
serenade_beta
2007-08-12, 18:51
The half-way eyecatch........
"Starts placing bets on character survival rates"
Key Board
2007-08-12, 20:05
sure, why not
Nanoha:
90% chance of surviving with major permanent injuries
Fowards: (Subaru, Teana, Erio, Caro)
100% survival possibility
Zest:
0% survival possibility. walking corpse
Village Idiot
2007-08-12, 20:31
I can see some of the Numbers defecting, mostly the newer ones whom have no real loyalty to Scagliati's goals, but are doing it for the heck of it.
But ya, Zest have like 0% surival rate.
Nanoha (to Fate): "Danger is my business." :cool:
It seems they don't need Vivio for their "married couple" routine... :D
(And poor Hayate. She's ranked the most powerful of the trio, they've all had their limiters released, and no-one's admonishing her not to overdo it.)
Nightengale
2007-08-12, 20:41
I can see some of the Numbers defecting, mostly the newer ones whom have no real loyalty to Scagliati's goals, but are doing it for the heck of it.
Technically, it's not like they're doing it just for the heck of it... Sein/Wendi for one have no particular dreams or ambitions, but are doing it since it's for their "birth father," which shows while it's not a deep loyalty/trust or anything like Uno and Tre (( maybe Due too )), they have a degree of respect and ~creator's attachment for the Doctor.
Well, there's still the more stoic Numbers like Deed/Otto, but I'm not sure if we'll see them with more personality.
Key Board
2007-08-12, 20:41
It's true that some Numbers don't care (or even understands) what his goals are, but as they said, they are doing this for family
It would take something along the lines of "OH HEY, YOU HAVE FAKE MEMORIES LOL LOL LOL" to trigger something like a betrayal
the blank personality Numbers are probably harder to read, are they ultra logical like Contractors from Darker than Black? If so they might just prioritize their own survival and flee, otherwise no
princesa_Ameria
2007-08-12, 21:10
Nanoha StrikerS Ep 20 RAW ^^
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v959139gcm5fhXy
I wouldn't be too overly surprised if Jail eventually said "screw you" and tried to destroy the TSAB crew with his Numbers as collaterol damage leading to them switching sides. At least some of them. Wendi, Cinque and Sein all seem entirely too good natured to be die at this point. I can easily see the series ending with Jail and the core numbers dead and the rest being lost/welcomed into the TSAB by our Type Zero.
I'm personally not so confident of Nanoha's 'survival,' though I have this strange theory that I'm nursing where she gets tossed into some alternate dimension or something. Not really based on anything. Just a way to remove her and let the focus shift to the kiddos while not actually killing her. Let Subaru train Vivio up and then head out on her own grand adventure to find Nanoha. :-P
True, hopefully with the Type Zero sisters, a saved Ginga and Subaru could learn one of the most vital aspects of Nanoha; being befriended by superior firepower.
All this exposition was exactly what I was afraid of. Since 2 weeks ago, I had a feeling they'd go the "tell, not show" routine. Now it has come to pass.
RandomGuy
2007-08-12, 21:50
Well, Jail being possibly a created being himself wasn't unexpected (( to me at least )), but linked to Al-Hazard!? Now, that's a twist, though I don't know if it's actually going to be a huge plot-device or just something to spazz Fate a little.
Ultimate Boss = Evil Cyborg Precia?
serenade_beta
2007-08-12, 22:56
I wouldn't be too overly surprised if Jail eventually said "screw you" and tried to destroy the TSAB crew with his Numbers as collaterol damage leading to them switching sides. At least some of them. Wendi, Cinque and Sein all seem entirely too good natured to be die at this point. I can easily see the series ending with Jail and the core numbers dead and the rest being lost/welcomed into the TSAB by our Type Zero.
If this happened, I would be in a mood to kill...
Nightengale
2007-08-12, 23:03
I hope not. Jail's always been a bastard, but I kinda liked how he doesn't treat his Numbers like crap, and that the Numbers themselves don't feel negatively forced to do what they're doing, but willingly since it's for the family/sisters/father.
If he's going to pull a "screw you girls" just for the sake of having some likable Numbers live, and defect, that...feels kinda... I dunno, inappropriate.
That being said, even though everything points towards a brain-washed Ginga (( her addressed as XIII, silent all the way, stoic as hell )), I'm still hoping out for something...different.
Key Board
2007-08-12, 23:06
Well, he's not exactly sane. Insane people tend to lose sight of what is important. *cough*Precia*cough*
Especially if your pet name is Infinite Desire
Though if you ask me, crazy vilians like him ARE different.
Nowadays, every villain has a sob story.
We need some classic super robot villains once in a while.
TAM-Lisa
2007-08-12, 23:43
God damn this episode is boring so far.
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8225/vlcsnap740276ik8.png
She's number II
Some Duo's SS ...that scene where she licked the claw is exactly like what Nao did in Mai Hime
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/7239/111fx7.th.png (http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=111fx7.png)
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6060/facejq5.th.png (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=facejq5.png)
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/9051/face1jx3.th.png (http://img517.imageshack.us/my.php?image=face1jx3.png)
Not only that, her smile made me scare :upset:
Darco_emp
2007-08-12, 23:44
Well, he's not exactly sane. Insane people tend to lose sight of what is important. *cough*Precia*cough*
Especially if your pet name is Infinite Desire
Though if you ask me, crazy vilians like him ARE different.
Nowadays, every villain has a sob story.
We need some classic super robot villains once in a while.
I do indeed welcome that for a change, since that will led to a much more
clean kill off of a character...
On the note of this episode while it have finally started to answere some of the questions that is key forcus of the plot I wanted to see interaction between Signum/Fate and Vita/Nanoha. However there is the nice moment of Fate and Nanoha telling each other not to over do :heh: they have such a good relationship as a married couple :heh:.
On to the next ep and hopefully more and bigger fireworks. Friendship over superior firepower FTW :D
I do indeed welcome that for a change, since that will led to a much more
clean kill off of a character...
On the note of this episode while it have finally started to answere some of the questions that is key forcus of the plot I wanted to see interaction between Signum/Fate and Vita/Nanoha. However there is the nice moment of Fate and Nanoha telling each other not to over do :heh: they have such a good relationship as a married couple :heh:.
On to the next ep and hopefully more and bigger fireworks. Friendship over superior firepower FTW :DI'm voting Super Gadget Type-X (SGX) for the most fireworks!
And that scene could've gone both ways, as always... NEED SUBS!!! :frustrated:
Nightengale
2007-08-12, 23:55
Well, he's not exactly sane. Insane people tend to lose sight of what is important. *cough*Precia*cough*
Especially if your pet name is Infinite Desire
Though if you ask me, crazy vilians like him ARE different.
Nowadays, every villain has a sob story.
We need some classic super robot villains once in a while.
Well, it's not like his petname was self-given...those crazy TSAB jackass brains were the one. With parents like that, it's only natural Jail turned out half-crazy.
At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if HALF the crimes Jail is labeled for over the years was TSAB's fault to begin with. Isn't it strange how his field of apparent expertise all tie to links of "man-machine hybrid/artificial beings/memory-implantation" and stuff, all of which will benefit those floating brains should it turn out complete... :rolleyes:
And I like classic super robot-ish villains too. Though my standards are high... Dio Brando high. Yes, I know he has a bit of a sob-story, but it's so minor it's irrelevant.
Dark Wing
2007-08-13, 01:10
Well, it's not like his petname was self-given...those crazy TSAB jackass brains were the one. With parents like that, it's only natural Jail turned out half-crazy.
At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if HALF the crimes Jail is labeled for over the years was TSAB's fault to begin with. Isn't it strange how his field of apparent expertise all tie to links of "man-machine hybrid/artificial beings/memory-implantation" and stuff, all of which will benefit those floating brains should it turn out complete... :rolleyes:
And I like classic super robot-ish villains too. Though my standards are high... Dio Brando high. Yes, I know he has a bit of a sob-story, but it's so minor it's irrelevant.
So what your saying is that the TSAB may have been corrupted form the start and the Doc was really a misunderstood villein...Carp don't tell me the Jail supporters were right.:twitch:
An Hero in Disguise
2007-08-13, 01:18
So what your saying is that the TSAB may have been corrupted form the start and was really a misunderstood villein...Carp don't tell me the Jail supporters were right.:twitch:
Yeah, let it be true :D TSAB is responsible for Jail becoming a criminal :D
Aaron008R
2007-08-13, 01:41
I sure as hell wouldn't mind.:D
Old crones in test tubes tend to be like that.:rolleyes:
The TSAB may not be corrupt, but as they say, 'The head represents the entire body.'
(Okay, I just made that up.:heh:)
Besides, it also allows for a takeover of some new people!:D
Though Scaglietti would still get hell for being the antagonist.:p
So what your saying is that the TSAB may have been corrupted form the start and the Doc was really a misunderstood villein...Carp don't tell me the Jail supporters were right.:twitch:It appears that Spagetti was the product of the Brains. Best of all, they saved him. Monster, much? :D
And as I predicted, Hayate, Fate and Nanoha are going to take over the TSAB. With Chrono in charge of the Navy, and Carim the Church, this is one of the biggest cases of multidimensional nepotism. But it's so functional, I don't mind. :rolleyes:
FlameSparkZ
2007-08-13, 03:13
Ok...I saw ep 20....
Floating brains...yay...
Due is definitely the most disturbing of all Numbers, the nastiest too :twitch:
I wonder what her IS is...
So, from what I saw, Jail's lab and the Cradle are different places? :eyespin:
And I guess now we know why this episode is called 'Mugen no Yokubou' since Jail is referred as Unlimited Desire :heh:
I predicted, Hayate, Fate and Nanoha are going to take over the TSAB.
I hope not. Among the three, only Hayate has enough seniority to have a shot at the top spot. And she has barely enough. While I'm sure Fate and Nanoha are respected, even by their superiors, as fighters, but what about their abilities as strategists and tacticians? Neither of them strike me as a Julian Minci.
arkhangelsk
2007-08-13, 04:14
It'd be really sad if any of them actually make the top, or even promote more than one rank in all this. None of the three show any signs of being able, as yet, to handle the strategic or logistical issues involved (see my comments Ep17 and 18) in commanding the force.
But then, if all we are demanding is someone a little better than Regius, that can be a different matter. Still, most likely, Lindy will take the job out of the characters we know. If Graham isn't completely dead, dragging him back to work for awhile might be a good idea - I don't like him but he seems capable enough.
Really, the realistic solution will involve a bunch of people we don't know anything about.
Aaron008R
2007-08-13, 04:29
A bunch of 19 year olds taking over TSAB?!:twitch:
Erm... No please.:heh: Let's not go GSD here.:uhoh:
Anybody senior and well-respected. How about the Three Legendary Admirals?
Due is definitely the most disturbing of all Numbers, the nastiest too
Yeah, she has the same mad smile as Jail. Her only true daughter, with the same feelings...
Aaron008R
2007-08-13, 04:40
Which brings about the question why Auris is so suspicious.:confused:
Maybe Due's IS is called "Perfect Disguise"? :heh:
arkhangelsk
2007-08-13, 05:15
A bunch of 19 year olds taking over TSAB?!:twitch:
Erm... No please.:heh: Let's not go GSD here.:uhoh:
Anybody senior and well-respected. How about the Three Legendary Admirals?
Would work for a bit, but I suspect they retired because they are too old to work prolonged. They can stand-in, but someone better replace them w/i the year or we'd lose them to heart attacks and strokes.
Which brings about the question why Auris is so suspicious
Maybe Auris isn't a Number, but that doesn't mean she doesn't work for Jail.
Or maybe, she has just gone weird working with Regius for so long.
Aaron008R
2007-08-13, 06:07
Would work for a bit, but I suspect they retired because they are too old to work prolonged. They can stand-in, but someone better replace them w/i the year or we'd lose them to heart attacks and strokes.
Possible indeed. But going by anime cliches, it'll be quite long before they kick the bucket.:heh: Logic kicks the bucket before old people in anime does.:heh:
Maybe Auris isn't a Number, but that doesn't mean she doesn't work for Jail.
Or maybe, she has just gone weird working with Regius for so long.
Maybe. But I still think that there's a possibility there. Besides, Due was blue-haired before becoming blond in the assassination, right?
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-13, 06:10
So what your saying is that the TSAB may have been corrupted form the start and the Doc was really a misunderstood villein...Carp don't tell me the Jail supporters were right.:twitch:
No silly. A single dirty secret made by high ranking leaders does not reflect the integrity of the entire Organization.
Everybody has skeletons in their closet after all, nobody's completely pure.
And the TSAB's main purpose is nothing 'evil'.
And as I predicted, Hayate, Fate and Nanoha are going to take over the TSAB. With Chrono in charge of the Navy, and Carim the Church, this is one of the biggest cases of multidimensional nepotism. But it's so functional, I don't mind. :rolleyes:
No way, all of them are still too inexperience to take over a huge and complex organization like the TSAB.
lots of moonspeak and near zero action. this episode seems to be nearly a blank for discussion until someone can provide a idea of what the countless talking was about. :(
To be honest, the preview was almost the hightlight of this episode even though it can't be counted as part of the episode :heh:
Anyone want to start discussing what we can expect from next episode? :heh:
Nightengale
2007-08-13, 06:37
No silly. A single dirty secret made by high ranking leaders does not reflect the integrity of the entire Organization.
Everybody has skeletons in their closet after all, nobody's completely pure.
And the TSAB's main purpose is nothing 'evil'.
Right now, it's a reflection of the question, "Is the law above the law?"
Speaking of previews, Acous is conveniently shafted from the "Scaglietti Attack" duo mention in the preview lol.
Nah i pretty much given up hope of StrikerS being a good series.Seriously,next time they do 26 episodes make it two 13 episode arcs,
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-13, 06:41
Anyone want to start discussing what we can expect from next episode? :heh:
Just for fun...
They're going to have them all size up their opponents... Teana and Erio would be all pumped up and ready to jump the gun and spear, but unfortunately, they'll have to wait about 10 mins for their individual partners to 'try' to talk to the enemy.
Caro would spend 1 min introducing herself and trying to get Lutecia to talk... Lutecia would take 7 seconds to reply "There's something I must do." And 2 seconds to fire her 'Cero' attack.
Subaru would spend 5 WHOLE minutes yelling at Ginga to stop while playing defense all the way.
The rest of the time would be on Teana, Nove and Erio's POV.
Right now, it's a reflection of the question, "Is the law above the law?"
Before that, could you tell me exactly what they did? :heh: I haven't watch yet...
Speaking of previews, Acous is conveniently shafted from the "Scaglietti Attack" duo mention in the preview lol.
Huh? What?
With regards to someone wondering what Fate's limit break mode might be like, she might not have a change in her BJ though. One possibility why her sonic form BJ wasn't shown in StS so far might be because she has no need of it anymore. Ten years is a long time and she might have been able to perfect her speed to the point sonic form is redundant.
Just for fun...
They're going to have them all size up their opponents... Teana and Erio would be all pumped up and ready to jump the gun and spear, but unfortunately, they'll have to wait about 10 mins for their individual partners to 'try' to talk to the enemy.
Caro would spend 1 min introducing herself and trying to get Lutecia to talk... Lutecia would take 7 seconds to reply "There's something I must do." And 2 seconds to fire her 'Cero' attack.
Subaru would spend 5 WHOLE minutes yelling at Ginga to stop while playing defense all the way.
The rest of the time would be on Teana and Erio's POV.
This sounds seriously familiar like the few DBZ scenes I can recall off-hand. :eyebrow:
Ok maybe not THAT much but the talking bits sure do.
But why Teana and Erio POV? so that the Caro vs Lutecia and Subaru vs Ginga can be saved for a grander scene?
Pretty hard to imagine how the penultimate episode is going to be at this point. Pull another one like S2 perhaps and intro a imba end boss? :confused:
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-13, 06:58
This sounds seriously familiar like the few DBZ scenes I can recall off-hand. :eyebrow:
Ok maybe not THAT much but the talking bits sure do.
The funny part is that I don't watch DB at all :heh:
So I guess the word on the street is true... :p
But why Teana and Erio POV? so that the Caro vs Lutecia and Subaru vs Ginga can be saved for a grander scene?
Who knows? By right they could have started the fight this episode...
Pretty hard to imagine how the penultimate episode is going to be at this point. Pull another one like S2 perhaps and intro a imba end boss? :confused:
Or two end bosses.
Two end bosses is a interesting possibility but I certainly don't think there are any current characters that would fill that role nicely. Where and who else is involved in the fight is too.
So far I can only see dying Zest as a possible candidate. Anyone wanna nominate another end boss? :D
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-13, 07:18
Two end bosses is a interesting possibility but I certainly don't think there are any current characters that would fill that role nicely. Where and who else is involved in the fight is too.
So far I can only see dying Zest as a possible candidate. Anyone wanna nominate another end boss? :D
Fate vs Jail.
I can see Jail and Uno piloting a Gundam size drone together :p
And I'm still hoping for Vivio to pull a 'Reinforce'...
it's hard to see jail as a opponent who be worthy of fate and be the end boss at the same time unless he pulls his last ace out, that being a 'orphan of alharzed', he has amazing magical abilities, on top of being a capable scientist.
But the part of jail and uno in a gundam-sized drone is absolutely hilarious. :D worthy of a omake perhaps. :heh:
Ah yes, I do agree with you on the Vivio part. Very very interesting if that turns out to be true. :D
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-08-13, 07:36
watched the RAW version and this wasn't really a wasted episode, but nonetheless, the battle didn't officially start until the last 5min. of this episode.:heh:
-That story Scaglietti was talking about...now I can't really understand but did he just explain something about how the Saint Chruch and TSAB/Regius motivated Scaglietti to do this crime? I couldn't really understand that much, but the first explaination was about the Saint Church and I think how someone wanted their lover to come back alive, hence that priest with test tube scene and image of that lady in the garden. The second was about how Regius is connected to Zest. Same with this story I couldn't make out what was explained, but I think Regius is the reason why Zest is a relic weapon...it was his first project? This could make sense if the first story about the Priest wanted his lover to come back alive and since Zest is a living corpse, then it might add up...so does that mean Lutecia is actually dead and that person in the test tube isn't her mother?"twitch:...so confused...
-Next up, RF6 and their meeting before the battle. Seems like the forwards maybe worrying too much that they might not see their leaders after this battle is done. Erio and Caro worrying about not going with Fate to fight with her. And Subaru worrying about Nanoha and Vivio.
-Talking brains...seems a bit too weird for a series like this one...but we got to see Due though...she is the spitting image of Scaglietti...smiles and laugh, and I guess thought patter also.:heh:...doing a massacre on helpless floating brains...ALTHOUGH, anyone know the Seiyuu for Due though? I swear she sounds exactly like Rena from Higurashi who ironically also does VA for Teana...
-Signum and Vita's little discussion about Regius and Zest after the meeting...if I didn't understand correctly, did Signum mention that Zest used to be a Striker under Regius' command? If this is so, then thats the connection to Zest and Regius, but the other thing is, what made Zest die before becoming a Relic weapon...hmm
-Uh, were Nanoha, Vita, and the forwards praying or something during that scene where Nanoha was talking and they had their eyes closed?...but good motivation speech for the forwards before the battle though.
-Chrono and his army of ships...hopefully, he'll get out of his Claudia and do some battling outside of the ship...but I doubt that will happen, since that is his squad and they need commands from their commander...unless Amy takes over, and speaking of Amy, isn't she suppose to appear yet??
-Battle time! and Limiters are all released!!! Nanoha goes Exceed Mode right away and Fate's conversation with Nanoha kinda reminded me of their younger selves:heh:...too bad, no concern for Hayate though, since she's higher ranked than both of them.:heh:
-Preview for next episode, seems like we'll be getting our Opening Sequence line up...Subaru meets up with Ginga though, but where's Nouve? sneak attack perhaps?
not bad of an episode, a bit too much talking, and we get to see a worried Fate...a very very worried one.:heh:
next episode looks VERY VERY promising...unless thats all in the second half of the episode...:heh:
Love the part in the intermission with the Numbers and Scaglietti in their "criminal" mug shots...hahaha
8/10
I don't see what's the problem with people and build up episodes, or slow series for altogether. For me, this has been the best Nanoha season so far, and I specially enjoyed the first half and the training episodes. The episodes where characters did nothing but talk a little and explore their characters and relationships. The episodes where they showed us that they were more than walking planet destroyers. I give my thumbs up to this season and to a fourth season that decides to be even slower.
...Then again you could say I'm a weird slife-of-live lover who happens who happens to have a slight interest in some action series. :D
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-13, 07:49
@ProtoMan
I have nothing against set-up episodes in general. But for a series that's famed for it's intense action scenes, 3 cooldown episodes per good fight scene is truely too much.
Once maybe, but not when 'it' has hit the fan.
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-08-13, 07:53
I'm still freaking out by the talking brains...why oh why talking brains.
Still though, whose brains did they belong to anyways?
they seem to have a lot of info on Zest.
Nightengale
2007-08-13, 08:06
I don't see what's the problem with people and build up episodes, or slow series for altogether. For me, this has been the best Nanoha season so far, and I specially enjoyed the first half and the training episodes. The episodes where characters did nothing but talk a little and explore their characters and relationships. The episodes where they showed us that they were more than walking planet destroyers. I give my thumbs up to this season and to a fourth season that decides to be even slower.
...Then again you could say I'm a weird slife-of-live lover who happens who happens to have a slight interest in some action series. :D
I have absolutely nothing against slow build-ups, or slice-of-liveliness in whatever shows.
The problem is that I found them badly executed. The parts where character development was emphasized was fine at first, but after a while, it felt like some parts were imbalanced, and there was a sense that some "slow moments" were repeated for the heck instead of being spent on other aspects of character development. Keypoint, Nanoha and Fate's relationship. There was clearly stronger highlights on their friendship and their bond in particular, and Hayate felt severely left out from that equation. Fate/ErioCaro that was addressed in the Sound Stage could've had some time to shine here, but was digressed for points. Basically, there was clearly bias on what kind of ~slowness was favored more than the other. As a result, some things felt repetitive (( Nanoha-Fate-are-very-good-friends!!!! )) like the whole Nanoha Fate don't overdo yourself thing. It's fine if there was just the both of them, but it was like Hayate wasn't there at all. When StrikerS started, I was looking forward to a more-trio-emphasized friendship, but alas, Nanoha and Fate seem to still be centralized more than Hayate.
And a lot of the plot exposition in the beginning took a ~slow vibe that build up very very minor points of the story, only for later expositions to suffer. This episode for example, was clearly one point of bad execution where Jail had to reveal lots of plot points through story-telling instead of being slowly pieced out over the 20 episodes.
The problem is not the slow episodes, the problem is that the slow episodes themselves are not very good.
unless Amy takes over
Amy is a great assistant, but she's no commander.
BTW, does she still work at TSAB, or is she just a housewife now?
(I suppose she still works, since she needs Arf to take care of the kids.)
arkhangelsk
2007-08-13, 08:18
I bet that they looked at the amount of H-doujin and decided that Nanoha and Fate were the favorite couple, so they zoomed in. :D
*This is not entirely a joke. Hayate-based H is very rare in doujin as a percentage of MGLN porn. I've seen maybe 1-2, as compared to hordes of Nanoha/Fate H. I feel lucky for Hayate because the porn is so crude, degrading and slutty, but doujin is what a firm looks at when guessing who is popular among the bunch willing to splurge thousands of yen on DVDs and "derivative products" - kids and people who won't pay don't count...
Amy is a great assistant, but she's no commander.
BTW, does she still work at TSAB, or is she just a housewife now?
(I suppose she still works, since she needs Arf to take care of the kids.)
Her only visible command opportunity was kind of a hash. It was Ep7 of Nanoha A's, and instead of concentrating force like she was supposed to, she split up Nanoha and Fate. Not only did that mean a decisive result was inachievable, but it left them very vulnerable to ambush.
I don't see what's the problem with people and build up episodes, or slow series for altogether. For me, this has been the best Nanoha season so far, and I specially enjoyed the first half and the training episodes.
[...]
...Then again you could say I'm a weird slife-of-live lover who happens who happens to have a slight interest in some action series. :D
Indeed, the first 15 episodes were nice, Aria-style.
But the last few episodes were definitely lacking.
Ep 16: please hold the line, first fight will start soon.
Ep 17: first fight (OK)
Ep 18: 1st fight's aftermath.
Ep 19: please hold the line, second fight will start soon.
Ep 20: please hold the line, second fight will start very soon.
I truly hope that episodes 21 to 26 will be good, so that we can forget about these five.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-13, 08:26
Amy is a great assistant, but she's no commander.
Agree, a better Substitute would be Lindy.
BTW, does she still work at TSAB, or is she just a housewife now?
(I suppose she still works, since she needs Arf to take care of the kids.)
No, she's a full time mom.
Agreed. The fights for the remainder of the show should at least be on the level shown in A's but this being S3, they should take it to another level. Especially with the number of elements in play now.
I bet that they looked at the amount of H-doujin and decided that Nanoha and Fate were the favorite couple, so they zoomed in.
[...]
I feel lucky for Hayate because the porn is so crude
Instead of porn doujins, I just love Satashi's fanfics about F&N love, and about the beginning of something between Hayate and Yuuno...
Her only visible command opportunity was kind of a hash. It was Ep7 of Nanoha A's, and instead of concentrating force like she was supposed to, she split up Nanoha and Fate.
She panicked, and Fate and Nanoha took the initiative.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-13, 08:31
Her only visible command opportunity was kind of a hash. It was Ep7 of Nanoha A's, and instead of concentrating force like she was supposed to, she split up Nanoha and Fate. Not only did that mean a decisive result was inachievable, but it left them very vulnerable to ambush.
No no, the point is she's not trained for the job, and she doesn't have the rank for it.
(Admiral's wife doesn't count as a rank)
Agreed. The fights for the remainder of the show should at least be on the level shown in A's but this being S3, they should take it to another level. Especially with the number of elements in play now.
Define what you mean by another level. Cause it's definately not intensity.
arkhangelsk
2007-08-13, 08:31
Indeed, the first 15 episodes were nice, Aria-style.
But the last few episodes were definitely lacking.
Ep 16: please hold the line, first fight will start soon.
Ep 17: first fight (OK)
Ep 18: 1st fight's aftermath.
Ep 19: please hold the line, second fight will start soon.
Ep 20: please hold the line, second fight will start very soon.
I truly hope that episodes 21 to 26 will be good, so that we can forget about these five.
My personal theory is that their actions were governed by budget - they had maybe 18 episodes worth of cash for 26 episodes for budget, and action episodes drain the budget, so they are forced to draw in lots of peace and exposition budgets so as to minimize the number of frames.
Seven Arcs:
"Finally finished drawing Ep19. Now let's have a 5 minute exposition in Ep20 and get to the fight."
"Director. Director."
"What?"
"We are running out of cash. We can't possibly pay for 6 (20-25) episodes of continuous action!"
"Oh fine. Let's make Ep20 an exposition chapter. Make maximum use of dialogue so they only have to move their mouths. Then give them action for 21-22, somehow create peace in Ep23, war in Ep24 and Ep25, then a nice warm Ep26."
"What else can we do?"
"Yeah..."
Instead of porn doujins, I just love Satashi's fanfics about F&N love, and about the beginning of something between Hayate and Yuuno...
They are nice, but they don't cost money, so their readers don't count. People who read them will not necessarily shell out even 1000 yen for a light novel.
Nightengale
2007-08-13, 08:31
Before that, could you tell me exactly what they did? :heh: I haven't watch yet...
Huh? What?
TAKE WITH A HUEG GRAIN OF SALT. I prefer waiting for thisguy's power-summary, but I'll TRY to give you the gist of it...
Basically, the High Council talks on how Jail had crossed the line, being too much for his own good, and say of how he's using the Cradle and Sei-Oh that they had been searching for as his toys, and that he must be stopped. But then they said that Jail is still needed too since he's important for something...I think. They said that even though Zest was a failure, and while Lutecia was technically successful, it looks to them that Sei-Oh is a complete success. Then, they talk about how it's about time... I think they then said about how they're protecting the world from the shadows, and that is why they need the Cradle and also why they're involved in 'unethical development of stuff', and how they've abandoned their flesh to continue living, but apparently they cannot live too much longer either even with that. Even so, they think they are still necessary for the protection of the worlds. Apparently, they're the ones who deployed Zest (( I think )) and that his purpose is just to ensure Lutecia's safety, and keep the Sentoukijin information under wraps by killing Regius.
And yeah, also on them finding and raising Jail, the Orphan of Al-Hazard, under codename Unlimited Desires.
IF I'M NOT WRONG, it pretty much says that the High Council are a bunch of hypocrites who think they're so great they've above the own laws they create, and that a lot of 'evil deeds' Scaglietti was apparently involved in, relates back to TSAB's highest honchos.
1 cent says that they're the ones who killed Quint as well.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-13, 08:38
My personal theory is that their actions were governed by budget - they had maybe 18 episodes worth of cash for 26 episodes for budget, and action episodes drain the budget, so they are forced to draw in lots of peace and exposition budgets so as to minimize the number of frames.
I don't think it's the money though, cause they were definately making big bucks with the popularity of the last two seasons.
Why else did they aim for 26 episodes this time?
arkhangelsk
2007-08-13, 08:45
I base my theory on the way the art quality changed. They probably thought they had plenty of money (see Ep1, real pretty). I think somewhere around Ep5 they suddenly realized that they had money problems, so Ep7 or so the quality dropped for around a few episodes to conserve money. After that, the quality recovered but we started having lots of exposition episodes. The battles integrated a higher percentage of stock footage and low frame usage scenes - see the battle in Ep11.
My personal theory is that their actions were governed by budget
I had the same impression.
They are nice, but they don't cost money, so their readers don't count. People who read them will not necessarily shell out even 1000 yen for a light novel.
Do Seven Arc care about the money spend for buying doujins?
I think they want as much fan stuff as possible (doujins, fanart, fanfics), free or not, to maximize the buzz around the series, and sell more DVDs.
IF I'M NOT WRONG, it pretty much says that the High Council are a bunch of hypocrites who think they're so great they've above the own laws they create,
Typical politicians. Nothing new.
Nightengale
2007-08-13, 08:48
watched the RAW version and this wasn't really a wasted episode, but nonetheless, the battle didn't officially start until the last 5min. of this episode.:heh:
-That story Scaglietti was talking about...now I can't really understand but did he just explain something about how the Saint Chruch and TSAB/Regius motivated Scaglietti to do this crime? I couldn't really understand that much, but the first explaination was about the Saint Church and I think how someone wanted their lover to come back alive, hence that priest with test tube scene and image of that lady in the garden. The second was about how Regius is connected to Zest. Same with this story I couldn't make out what was explained, but I think Regius is the reason why Zest is a relic weapon...it was his first project? This could make sense if the first story about the Priest wanted his lover to come back alive and since Zest is a living corpse, then it might add up...so does that mean Lutecia is actually dead and that person in the test tube isn't her mother?"twitch:...so confused...
-Next up, RF6 and their meeting before the battle. Seems like the forwards maybe worrying too much that they might not see their leaders after this battle is done. Erio and Caro worrying about not going with Fate to fight with her. And Subaru worrying about Nanoha and Vivio.
-Talking brains...seems a bit too weird for a series like this one...but we got to see Due though...she is the spitting image of Scaglietti...smiles and laugh, and I guess thought patter also.:heh:...doing a massacre on helpless floating brains...ALTHOUGH, anyone know the Seiyuu for Due though? I swear she sounds exactly like Rena from Higurashi who ironically also does VA for Teana...
-Signum and Vita's little discussion about Regius and Zest after the meeting...if I didn't understand correctly, did Signum mention that Zest used to be a Striker under Regius' command? If this is so, then thats the connection to Zest and Regius, but the other thing is, what made Zest die before becoming a Relic weapon...hmm
-Uh, were Nanoha, Vita, and the forwards praying or something during that scene where Nanoha was talking and they had their eyes closed?...but good motivation speech for the forwards before the battle though.
-Chrono and his army of ships...hopefully, he'll get out of his Claudia and do some battling outside of the ship...but I doubt that will happen, since that is his squad and they need commands from their commander...unless Amy takes over, and speaking of Amy, isn't she suppose to appear yet??
-Battle time! and Limiters are all released!!! Nanoha goes Exceed Mode right away and Fate's conversation with Nanoha kinda reminded me of their younger selves:heh:...too bad, no concern for Hayate though, since she's higher ranked than both of them.:heh:
-Preview for next episode, seems like we'll be getting our Opening Sequence line up...Subaru meets up with Ginga though, but where's Nouve? sneak attack perhaps?
not bad of an episode, a bit too much talking, and we get to see a worried Fate...a very very worried one.:heh:
next episode looks VERY VERY promising...unless thats all in the second half of the episode...:heh:
Love the part in the intermission with the Numbers and Scaglietti in their "criminal" mug shots...hahaha
8/10
Actually, you made a lot of mistakes LOL. :heh:
There was nothing about the flashback about dead lover or anything. It was the "how Jail got the biological data for Sei-Oh through Due" story. :heh:
And Regius and Zest were GOOD FRIENDS, in the past.
And Nanoha asked them to recall and remember every single training they've went through blah blah blah, and how they will not lose to any enemy they face taking everything they've learnt into mind lol.
(( Makes me want to see ALL the Numbers trashing the Forwards. ))
Indeed, the first 15 episodes were nice, Aria-style.
But the last few episodes were definitely lacking.
Meh, the first 15 episodes weren't all that good either. There were a lot of good points, but there was enough meh~ in the same manner of execution as well. It's okay in a way, since those wasted potential went to Sound Stages and manga instead, but really, they could've shifted the ~meh for that.
I don't think it's the money though, cause they were definately making big bucks with the popularity of the last two seasons.
Why else did they aim for 26 episodes this time?
Earn more for less lol?
Just take a look at the DVD sales for DVD 1... Around 18,000. Though it'll most likely drop a little in the coming sets, if it consistently keeps from 10,000 to 15, 000, it's literally screaming for a S4.
Typical politicians. Nothing new.
Perhaps, but we have yet to really see how deeply intertwined they really are in the huge scale of things. Like, were all of Jail's so-called dimensional crimes his own after he became renegade from his parents, or were everything linked to TSAB's corrupt honchos?
I base my theory on the way the art quality changed. They probably thought they had plenty of money (see Ep1, real pretty). I think somewhere around Ep5 they suddenly realized that they had money problems, so Ep7 or so the quality dropped for around a few episodes to conserve money.
There might also be a time factor. They don't have much time to make an episode before airing, and re-draw quite a few frames for the DVD release.
I'm pretty sure drawing them right the first time would cost less.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-13, 08:50
@Nightengale
Black Projects eh? What large organization doesn't have them... :p
ASSUMING, you're right; it still doesn't mean that the entire Bureau is 'corrupted'. (Not refering to you of course)
Also, on the topic of your earlier question, you and I both know that there's only one politically correct answer :p
The fight scenes in the nanoha series are indeed not about the intensity of it but I find it hard to point towards any single element. I would say it's the interaction between the two sides involved in the fight, seeing as how most of the fights are fought 1v1. Eg Fate and Nanoha, Nanoha and Vita, Fate and Signum and later, Nanoha and Reinforce.
Then again, what exactly was encompassed in the fight scenes in S1 and S2 that was captivating? :eyespin:
Come to think of it, there hasn't been any such fights so far. Guess I'll have to wait until the later episodes for such fights.
arkhangelsk
2007-08-13, 09:04
(( Makes me want to see ALL the Numbers trashing the Forwards. ))
Having just seen what you refer to ... me too.:D
FlameSparkZ
2007-08-13, 09:13
(( Makes me want to see ALL the Numbers trashing the Forwards. ))
:heh:
Then that would be the end of StrikerS, and NumberS would begin :uhoh:
Would be an interesting fanfic, if someone makes it...
Also, I'd like more Lutecia development...I WANT THE TRUTH! :heh:
Scag: "Lutecia...She's not your mother."
Lutecia: "Then...who is she?"
Scag: "She's you!! You are her clone!"
Lutecia: "...Can she still be my mother?"
Scag: "Sure, why not..."
Probably something like that, ne? :heh::heh::heh:
Aaron008R
2007-08-13, 09:16
:heh:
Then that would be the end of StrikerS, and NumberS would begin :uhoh:
Would be an interesting fanfic, if someone makes it...
NumberS?:D Quite catchy.:D
But then, it would be Mecha Harem Lyrical Sentoukijin...:heh:
Dream_Traveller
2007-08-13, 09:17
Oh-ho-ho-ho, nice idea you've put forward there, SparkZ.
One has to wonder what the OP would be, though...:heh:
FlameSparkZ
2007-08-13, 09:18
NumberS?:D Quite catchy.:D
But then, it would be Mecha Harem Lyrical Sentoukijin...:heh:
More like, Sentoukijin Harem Lyrical NumberS :heh:
Aaron008R
2007-08-13, 09:21
Noted.
And I also remember someone mentioning Mahou Scientist Cynical Jail or something...:heh:
Jail sure knows how to pull a performance, huh?:D But the psycho-deranged laugh kinda messed up the image.:heh:
Now if only there was a Shuu Shirakawa-type antagonist...
Dream_Traveller
2007-08-13, 09:23
Come to think of it, a seperate series from the POV of the Numbers...would be pretty nice.
That's it!
A petition! We must use a web petition to Seven Arcs!
Even though I doubt they'd ever listen. :heh:
Hah. Seems Sein's getting suspicious of Scaglietti... is that a sign that at least she will betray her beloved father?
And why is it that Due actually has a unique voice unlike the other Numbers who share their voices with eachother and/or other members of the cast?
Nightengale
2007-08-13, 09:29
Having just seen what you refer to ... me too.:D
I just found that Nanoha said all that to a group of 4 B~A rankish mages about the whole being taught how to not lose no matter what the situation and enemy very very lol worthy.
I wonder how long those 4 will survive if they're put through a simulation of A's against Wolkenritter/Reinforce/Defense Program. :p
Hah. Seems Sein's getting suspicious of Scaglietti... is that a sign that at least she will betray her beloved father?
And why is it that Due actually has a unique voice unlike the other Numbers who share their voices with eachother and/or other members of the cast?
I dunno... I found the self-questioning of "who's that girl in Dr's story?" more in line to the further showing to us audience the obvious hint that the seductress of the Saint Church's...high priest or something is none other than Due herself. I'm fairly sure Jail wouldn't mind indulging Sein in Due's... approaches, once she's older. :p
Since Sein's the "thief", while Due's the "assassin/kunoichi"... maybe Sein will be expected to "level up" for a job change when she's older...
FlameSparkZ
2007-08-13, 09:30
Hah. Seems Sein's getting suspicious of Scaglietti... is that a sign that at least she will betray her beloved father?
And why is it that Due actually has a unique voice unlike the other Numbers who share their voices with eachother and/or other members of the cast?
About Sein: Canon is on my side :D
About Due: Because she's eeeeeevil~ :eyespin:
Let's hope she doesn't kill anyone of the cast...:twitch:
Dream_Traveller
2007-08-13, 09:58
Well, Due's new, obviously- and we all know the attitudes of assassins. The main cast might have to watch out for themselves if she's around.
"Striking from the darkness"...[/corny assassin description]
Aaron008R
2007-08-13, 10:01
Just watched the RAW. Seems like Fate has a 'Limt Break' mode as well.
And are those other air mages with the Hayate, Nanoha and Vita trio?
Estavali
2007-08-13, 10:06
This is a rant. Half-crazed, incoherent and probably very annoying to read. (But nonetheless, do read on). :p
Aside from not-as-good-as-we-hoped execution of plot and lackluster and sometimes down-right horrible art for many of the episodes before #16, I personally think they could have done much, much better if they had only leave out all the Vivio-as-NxF-fan-service.
Vivio could have been used in a more interesting way. Instead rather than making better use of her potential, Seven Arcs chose to waste her (and all the screen-time allocated to her) as mere moe stuff and more reason for NxF supporters to howl over. If that's the best they can bring out of her (despite the impressive nickname "Sei-Ou no Utsuwa"), I rather wish they have not even come up with this character, and spent the time wasted on her on developing deeper plot. Heck, you put a kid in a MSLN series just to let her be a fluffy bunny?! What blasphemy!!!
In fact, I have always wish that Seven Arcs had cut all that unnecessary fan-service and devote them to other, better uses, such as developing Hayate (who, despite an Ace herself, has been sorely shafted compared to her friends), the VicexTiana (and possibly even a Vice-Tiana-Alto love triangle) interaction that would have made things more interesting, more development for the Doc and his merry ladies, a bit more on the 3 Legendary Admirals (what the point of leaving them alive so long if all they do is just sit around and smile?! On screen, that is), etc. The list of possible improvements goes on, which brings me to my next point.
Another problem would be that they could have either made the story more compact, or have more episodes to fully explore all the situations and characters that they have brought in, OR cut down on these elements themselves and concentrate on what would make the story smell nice. Imho they have include too much things that could not be properly cooked with just 26 episodes. A lot of potential is wasted as they rushed everything except the fan-service and served the brew before the taste is fully brought out. Again I mourn the shafting of Hayate, the TiaXVice angst, more development for the Doc and all the possible goodies that could have come to be, if they have been given more time to boil, or if there were least stuff they need to contend with within the 26 episodes.
Ah, there. My personal opinion, and I feel slightly better now that I've let it out. :D
Now, where's my anti-flame shield? :p
Dream_Traveller
2007-08-13, 10:08
You sure you saw more? I only saw Nanoha, Hayate, Vita and Fate heading out to the Cradle.
Unless my eyesight's failing me. :heh:
Nightengale
2007-08-13, 10:16
This is a rant. Half-crazed, incoherent and probably very annoying to read. (But nonetheless, do read on). :p
Aside from not-as-good-as-we-hoped execution of plot and lackluster and sometimes down-right horrible art for many of the episodes before #16, I personally think they could have done much, much better if they had only leave out all the Vivio-as-NxF-fan-service.
Vivio could have been used in a more interesting way. Instead rather than making better use of her potential, Seven Arcs chose to waste her (and all the screen-time allocated to her) as mere moe stuff and more reason for NxF supporters to howl over. If that's the best they can bring out of her (despite the impressive nickname "Sei-Ou no Utsuwa"), I rather wish they have not even come up with this character, and spent the time wasted on her on developing deeper plot. Heck, you put a kid in a MSLN series just to let her be a fluffy bunny?! What blasphemy!!!
In fact, I have always wish that Seven Arcs had cut all that unnecessary fan-service and devote them to other, better uses, such as developing Hayate (who, despite an Ace herself, has been sorely shafted compared to her friends), the VicexTiana (and possibly even a Vice-Tiana-Alto love triangle) interaction that would have made things more interesting, more development for the Doc and his merry ladies, a bit more on the 3 Legendary Admirals (what the point of leaving them alive so long if all they do is just sit around and smile?! On screen, that is), etc. The list of possible improvements goes on, which brings me to my next point.
Another problem would be that they could have either made the story more compact, or have more episodes to fully explore all the situations and characters that they have brought in, OR cut down on these elements themselves and concentrate on what would make the story smell nice. Imho they have include too much things that could not be properly cooked with just 26 episodes. A lot of potential is wasted as they rushed everything except the fan-service and served the brew before the taste is fully brought out. Again I mourn the shafting of Hayate, the TiaXVice angst, more development for the Doc and all the possible goodies that could have come to be, if they have been given more time to boil, or if there were least stuff they need to contend with within the 26 episodes.
Took the words I couldn't put into my fingers out of my mouth.
And in my opinion, Vivio-mama fanservice is fine to a limited degree (( since it builds impending drama...a little )), but it felt excessive by the 3rd episode. We know you both love her, but need we be reminded the umpteenth time?
And agreed on the story point. We can see how those plot-elements introduced in the earlier episodes, (( existence of Saint Church/Eihenjar/High Council/etc )) that seems to imply a degree of importance got easily swept over in a short amount of time, lacking proper build-up and felt like it was closed for the sake of necessity to be closed. Even if there was no need for Vice-Tea to begin with, a lot of time was wasted on him only to come out with nothing fruitful in the end.
I'm still holding a little graspable straw on Vivio, but if this episode is any indication, nothing is going to come out of this Vivio situation other than her being the Vessel and just that. Nothing more.
You sure you saw more? I only saw Nanoha, Hayate, Vita and Fate heading out to the Cradle.
Unless my eyesight's failing me. :heh:
Yes, there were other air mage grunts fighting at the Cradle point as well. Not part of RF6, but they were they.
And Fate isn't going to the Cradle, she's heading towards Scaglietti's base of operations, to meet up with Sister Schach and Acous who's already in the perimeters (( they were just waiting? Jail could've escaped, since he knows he's been found out anyway ))
Anyway, there were some strange things in this episode. Vivio was suddenly cuffed at 5 points, Chrono's wearing his UNIFORM, for 2.
Estavali
2007-08-13, 10:27
Strange that the Doc chose to stay in his exposed lair (did he?), rather than to seek the (supposed) safety within the Cradle. Is he really that confident of his inabiity to die?
And I seriously wonder if putting Deici within the Cradle to guard Vivio (if that's what she's there for) is a good idea. What if she missed and hits the roof?
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-13, 10:28
And Fate isn't going to the Cradle, she's heading towards Scaglietti's base of operations, to meet up with Sister Schach and Acous who's already in the perimeters (( they were just waiting? Jail could've escaped, since he knows he's been found out anyway ))
For more Schach/Acous possibilites of course!
I know you don't like it, but I've never seen you squirm before :) So don't think of it as torture, but rather a experiment to benefit society!
Anyway, there were some strange things in this episode. Vivio was suddenly cuffed at 5 points, Chrono's wearing his UNIFORM, for 2.
Well if I didn't mistake the screenshot, he was talking to Admiral Midget (Is that really her name?)... So maybe it's better to be formal in every aspect ...
This is a rant. Half-crazed, incoherent and probably very annoying to read. (But nonetheless, do read on). :p
Aside from not-as-good-as-we-hoped execution of plot and lackluster and sometimes down-right horrible art for many of the episodes before #16, I personally think they could have done much, much better if they had only leave out all the Vivio-as-NxF-fan-service.
Vivio could have been used in a more interesting way. Instead rather than making better use of her potential, Seven Arcs chose to waste her (and all the screen-time allocated to her) as mere moe stuff and more reason for NxF supporters to howl over. If that's the best they can bring out of her (despite the impressive nickname "Sei-Ou no Utsuwa"), I rather wish they have not even come up with this character, and spent the time wasted on her on developing deeper plot. Heck, you put a kid in a MSLN series just to let her be a fluffy bunny?! What blasphemy!!!
In fact, I have always wish that Seven Arcs had cut all that unnecessary fan-service and devote them to other, better uses, such as developing Hayate (who, despite an Ace herself, has been sorely shafted compared to her friends), the VicexTiana (and possibly even a Vice-Tiana-Alto love triangle) interaction that would have made things more interesting, more development for the Doc and his merry ladies, a bit more on the 3 Legendary Admirals (what the point of leaving them alive so long if all they do is just sit around and smile?! On screen, that is), etc. The list of possible improvements goes on, which brings me to my next point.
Another problem would be that they could have either made the story more compact, or have more episodes to fully explore all the situations and characters that they have brought in, OR cut down on these elements themselves and concentrate on what would make the story smell nice. Imho they have include too much things that could not be properly cooked with just 26 episodes. A lot of potential is wasted as they rushed everything except the fan-service and served the brew before the taste is fully brought out. Again I mourn the shafting of Hayate, the TiaXVice angst, more development for the Doc and all the possible goodies that could have come to be, if they have been given more time to boil, or if there were least stuff they need to contend with within the 26 episodes.
Ah, there. My personal opinion, and I feel slightly better now that I've let it out. :D
Now, where's my anti-flame shield? :p
No, no shield necessary.
A nicely done comment on what should have happened, but has been left aside in the dust by Seven Arcs. Hopefully they'll be able to draw a somewhat decent conclusion with what they have left.
If not, I still have my OC's to play around with, although it would be good if I don't have to create an AU to work with.
Could someone list out who are where currently for the Jail team? Pretty confusing who is where since they're split in three different places and with the return of certain Numbers. :confused:
If Jail is in his lair, how is he controlling the Cradle? Remote control? :twitch:
Nightengale
2007-08-13, 10:37
Strange that the Doc chose to stay in his exposed lair (did he?), rather than to seek the (supposed) safety within the Cradle. Is he really that confident of his inabiity to die?
You know what's worse? Except his Drones (( which had nothing on Acous/Schach )), he's ALONE! No Numbers, no Sein, no Quatrro, no Numbers! Well, Cinque may be there, but she's most likely still under repairs.
Unless being Al-Hazard's orphan makes him SSS or he too is a cyborg with an IS called Perfect AMF or something, I found it strange indeed.
For more Schach/Acous possibilites of course!
I know you don't like it, but I've never seen you squirm before :) So don't think of it as torture, but rather a experiment to benefit society!
Oh please, I won't squirm even if Nanoha and Fate kisses and get married in canon. (( though I will come very very close to it... ))
And besides, since the preview talked on Fate and Sister Schach taking on Scaglietti (( no mention of Acous )), it seems to be more towards Schach/Fate possibilities instead lol.
Could someone list out who are where currently for the Jail team? Pretty confusing who is where since they're split in three different places and with the return of certain Numbers. :confused:
Jail's Lair : Uno, Tre, Sein, Sette. (( maybe Cinque ))
Lutecia's Side : Otto.
Towards Mission Point at Central : Ginga, Nove, Wendi, Deed.
TSAB High Council : Due.
Cradle : Deici, Quatrro.
@Nightengale,Estavali:
While I've got to agree with you on factors like the stretched out episodes after ep. 16, and the inconsistent art shown throughtout the series, and that some of the themes and character relationships you mentioned were left out of the big picture in the long run, I think we are forgetting the strong points the series actually showed. Maybe it's because I tend to put a stronger emphasis on characters than the story when I'm evaluating a series (and hence I tend to be more forgiving with badly told stories than, say, poorly executed characters), and as such I appreciated (for example) the development Tea and Subaru got on the earlier and middle part of the series. Our protagonists are by no means 2-D, and while they aren't as fully fleshed out as with other series where character development is the emphasis, they are quite well above the shounen/magical girl standard. Same with the relationships. While there are a good deal of them (say, Tea x Vice) that got shafted on the longer run or that got relegated to other media, the main ones got proper screentime, and that is another point I appreciate.
Again, I'm not disagreeing with you that the story could be better told, that they could have paid more attention in the art. I'm just pointing out that we are using different evaluation scales, and emphazising diferent apsects of the same series.
Thanks for the clarification Night. :)
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-13, 10:55
Oh please, I won't squirm even if Nanoha and Fate kisses and get married in canon. (( though I will come very very close to it... ))
As expected of an Apostle of Crack :)
And besides, since the preview talked on Fate and Sister Schach taking on Scaglietti (( no mention of Acous )), it seems to be more towards Schach/Fate possibilities instead lol.
Don't try to turn this on me :p
But it does make me wonder if Acous has any combat ability...
But it does make me wonder if Acous has any combat ability...
It ain't those hounds of his, that's for sure. They popped when hit Scaglietti's lab defenses.
Regarding the pacing of the story. Here's my speculation on another factor, the staff may not have appriciated the fact that StrikerS is more a conventional police/military story than it is a Magical Girl story. MG stories are almost always defensive until the final fight. The girls beat off the enemy of the week then go home, until the final battle where they are pretty much handed the location of the enemy's HQ then they finally go on the offensive. Even the first 2 seasons of Nanoha were like that.
In a police/military story, there's more oppotunities for the main characters to initiate offensive actions throughout the series. Raid a criminal hideout, ambush the enemy fleet, hit an outpost, that sort of thing.
In StrikerS for example, Fate is suppsed to be their lead investigator, correct? Then show her investigating! Have her shakedown informants for information, staking out places where Relics are smuggled, that sort of thing. Don't just wait for an attack to happen! A half-dozen scens like these spread throughout the first 16 eps would have given the feeling of development.
Estavali
2007-08-13, 11:41
@Nightengale,Estavali:
While I've got to agree with you on factors like the stretched out episodes after ep. 16, and the inconsistent art shown throughtout the series, and that some of the themes and character relationships you mentioned were left out of the big picture in the long run, I think we are forgetting the strong points the series actually showed. Maybe it's because I tend to put a stronger emphasis on characters than the story when I'm evaluating a series (and hence I tend to be more forgiving with badly told stories than, say, poorly executed characters), and as such I appreciated (for example) the development Tea and Subaru got on the earlier and middle part of the series. Our protagonists are by no means 2-D, and while they aren't as fully fleshed out as with other series where character development is the emphasis, they are quite well above the shounen/magical girl standard. Same with the relationships. While there are a good deal of them (say, Tea x Vice) that got shafted on the longer run or that got relegated to other media, the main ones got proper screentime, and that is another point I appreciate.
Again, I'm not disagreeing with you that the story could be better told, that they could have paid more attention in the art. I'm just pointing out that we are using different evaluation scales, and emphazising diferent apsects of the same series.
Agreed. I myself still like StrikerS, despite its faults. Heck, we were all afraid that it would end up being another GSD, and that didn't happened (much :p). It's just all that missed opportunities that makes me sigh and shake my head. But I'm still looking forward to a good wrap-up, which is one of MSLN's greatest strengths :).
It ain't those hounds of his, that's for sure. They popped when hit Scaglietti's lab defenses.
From what I understand, those hounds are actually part of his Rare Skill.
Regarding the pacing of the story. Here's my speculation on another factor, the staff may not have appriciated the fact that StrikerS is more a conventional police/military story than it is a Magical Girl story. MG stories are almost always defensive until the final fight. The girls beat off the enemy of the week then go home, until the final battle where they are pretty much handed the location of the enemy's HQ then they finally go on the offensive. Even the first 2 seasons of Nanoha were like that.
In a police/military story, there's more oppotunities for the main characters to initiate offensive actions throughout the series. Raid a criminal hideout, ambush the enemy fleet, hit an outpost, that sort of thing.
In StrikerS for example, Fate is suppsed to be their lead investigator, correct? Then show her investigating! Have her shakedown informants for information, staking out places where Relics are smuggled, that sort of thing. Don't just wait for an attack to happen! A half-dozen scens like these spread throughout the first 16 eps would have given the feeling of development.
Interesting analysis. They might be trying to retain the mahou shoujo feel to the title, and made the mistakes(?) that we see now.
those hounds are actually part of his Rare Skill.
I know that, what I meant was they didn't seems to have much defensive capability. Probably not much use in combat either.
Estavali
2007-08-13, 12:00
I know that, what I meant was they didn't seems to have much defensive capability. Probably not much use in combat either.
It's possible that Acous' Infinite Hunting Hounds are solely meant for reconnaissance. As they are only part of his RS, it's possible too that he may have something more combat-worthy hidden up his sleeves, the way Carol keeps Voltaire hidden up her sleeves.
Of course, then again, Acous himself doesn't seems to be very combat-worthy too... :p
You don't know, Acous actually made a cake appear lol. I think he might have a few combat "techniques" up his sleeves but it might be close ranged instead of long range. It might have to do with his Infinite hunting hounds. Anyway finally Carim releases the limiters for Nanoha, Fate, Hayate and Vita. Just seeing that alone made me excited. I hope Nanoha uses her Star Light Breaker while Hayate "nukes" the area lol. Another than that I know for sure Subaru will get another fight scene with her going berserker.
With most of the episodes just conversations and twists
FlareKnight
2007-08-13, 14:52
Yeah never underestimate a man who can make cakes appear out of thin air. Suppose they run into some numbers this could create a very messy food fight finale :heh:. But I'm sure he's got some kind of combat moves hidden away for situations like this.
Agree that finally having the limiters released is a relief. At the very least I'd be happy with some crazed blasting and combat through the rest of the series. Should be some good action ahead at least.
Anyway finally Carim releases the limiters for Nanoha, Fate, Hayate and Vita.
So those limiters didn't do much for the plot. I mean, each time anyone needed full power, her limiter was released without fuss.
serenade_beta
2007-08-13, 17:10
Eyecatch:
Quattro has her sign sideways...
Cinque really is small after all...
Why does Nove still have her rollerblades...
What an appalling eyecatch...
Eyecatch:
Quattro has her sign sideways...
Cinque really is small after all...
Why does Nove still have her rollerblades...
What an appalling eyecatch...
lol as they say on 4chan.... quality. Oh k the last thing that made me go "woah I didn't see that coming" was that the TSAB was secretly being run by 3 brains. One part that I liked that was different from the other episodes was that they made a commercial break scene with Scagellati with his numbers all beside him. I can't wait for a high quality release of the ep. Hahah
arkhangelsk
2007-08-13, 19:17
In StrikerS for example, Fate is suppsed to be their lead investigator, correct? Then show her investigating! Have her shakedown informants for information, staking out places where Relics are smuggled, that sort of thing. Don't just wait for an attack to happen! A half-dozen scens like these spread throughout the first 16 eps would have given the feeling of development.
Well, I don't know. To me they at least tried to do something of this early on. They hired some relative wimps to help flesh out the numbers in their new unit (all the training scenes including very conventional running scenes), actually had to beg and negotiate for 4 years to set up the darn unit (the way real bureaucracies work). Hayate even runs around negotiating with old superiors and the like to help out, briefs the guys at HQ ... etc. Somewhere along the line, all that was lost and went back to the magical girl thing.
I was thinking all the Hayate development will not so much be in the 3-some as it would be showing her doing her commander's work. Somewhere after say Ep8 that got shafted along w/ her character development.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-13, 19:22
Well, I don't know. To me they at least tried to do something of this early on. They hired some relative wimps to help flesh out the numbers in their new unit (all the training scenes including very conventional running scenes), actually had to beg and negotiate for 4 years to set up the darn unit (the way real bureaucracies work). Hayate even runs around negotiating with old superiors and the like to help out, briefs the guys at HQ ... etc. Somewhere along the line, all that was lost and went back to the magical girl thing.
I was thinking all the Hayate development will not so much be in the 3-some as it would be showing her doing her commander's work. Somewhere after say Ep8 that got shafted along w/ her character development.
It all went to hell when Vivio came on the scene...
First five episodes, all more or less introduction, okay I can accept.
The Teana-Nanoha incident... Not my cup of tea, and too darn long, but I accept...
But it was all lost when that little girl came onto the scene.
Dark Wing
2007-08-13, 20:11
It all went to hell when Vivio came on the scene...
First five episodes, all more or less introduction, okay I can accept.
The Teana-Nanoha incident... Not my cup of tea, and too darn long, but I accept...
But it was all lost when that little girl came onto the scene.
Chaos! When are going to stop picking on the poor little loli!:upset:
Besides it's not Vivio's or any other characters fault it's the writers fault for not trying hard enough to write around all new characters they were spiting out like every 2 episodes. :rolleyes:
I truthfully believe that 26 episodes isn't long enough for the main plot and sub plots in general and I've been saying this for the longest that should've been 50 episodes at the least 30 if they wanted rap everything up.
All and all they screwed up had they stop adding in side character and focused on the main cast (Caor, Elio, Subaru, Tea, Nanoha, Fate, Hayate, etc.) this blunder would've never happened.
arkhangelsk
2007-08-13, 20:11
Agreed. All those NxFxV scenes were when it definitely derailed.
Dark Wing
2007-08-13, 20:19
Agreed. All those NxFxV scenes were when it definitely derailed.
Okay I can agree with you guys on this. Yes had they left the bonding to like 2 episodes we would've had more episodes for both action and plot.:heh:
Aaron008R
2007-08-13, 20:19
The least they could have done is to give Vivio some strange scenes when alone insted of acting all too moe than what's needed.:rolleyes: Vivio showed absolutely ZERO strangeness during her stay in RF6. Fanservice is fine and all, but hey, limits, limits.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-13, 20:20
Chaos! When are going to stop picking on the poor little loli!:upset:
Well I did 'defend' her 2 episodes ago... :heh:
Besides it's not Vivio's or any other characters fault it's the writers fault for not trying hard enough to write around all new characters they were spiting out like every 2 episodes. :rolleyes:
No no, it's most definately the girl.
She ate the most time...
edit ^ : Okay, maybe not :heh:
I truthfully believe that 26 episodes isn't long enough for the plot and sub plots in general and I've been saying this for the longest that should've been 50 episodes at the least 30 if they wanted rap everything up.
I don't think it's that heavy of a content :heh:
Agreed. All those NxFxV scenes were when it definitely derailed.
Indeed. The fault lies with them all, too much effort had been spent on them.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-13, 20:27
Okay I can agree with you guys on this. Yes had they left the bonding to like 2 episodes we would've had more episodes for both action and plot.:heh:
Or none at all! Yes, they were completely unnecessary and should be removed... :nod: :nod:
The least they could have done is to give Vivio some strange scenes when alone insted of acting all too moe than what's needed.:rolleyes: Vivio showed absolutely ZERO strangeness during her stay in RF6. Fanservice is fine and all, but hey, limits, limits.
Yessss pointlesssss, pointlesssss indeeddd ~....
[/hissing]
Dark Wing
2007-08-13, 20:39
Or none at all! Yes, they were completely unnecessary and should be removed... :nod: :nod:
Yessss pointlesssss, pointlesssss indeeddd ~....
[/hissing]
Oh Chaos you and your anti-yuri-ism :rolleyes:
Vivio was there at RF:6 HQ for the sake of NxF fan service so her being there was going to happen regardless. They messed up by making it so long. Also I would've like to see Vivio show off some amazing powers as well but alas it was not to be.:upset:
Nightengale
2007-08-13, 20:40
Or none at all! Yes, they were completely unnecessary and should be removed...
I wouldn't go that far personally, since Vivio was the catalyst of the only good NxF scene in the past 3 episodes, the one where Nanoha cried.
This episode's wasn't too bad, if only it didn't drag on longer than it should and how Hayate and Vita who were like...2 meters away are like total strangers to the friendship bond and talk of NF, and were totally irrelevant to the 'don't push yourself' talk, which even if they don't have Limit Breaks, should be more than okay to be inclusive. The 4 of you are friends FOR 10 FREAKIN YEARS!! WTF BIAS!?
Dark Wing
2007-08-13, 20:48
I wouldn't go that far personally, since Vivio was the catalyst of the only good NxF scene in the past 3 episodes, the one where Nanoha cried.
Thank You Nightengale. See Chaos I'm not the only who thinks Vivio had a greater proposes then a plot device. :p
Aaron008R
2007-08-13, 20:53
This episode's wasn't too bad, if only it didn't drag on longer than it should and how Hayate and Vita who were like...2 meters away are like total strangers to the friendship bond and talk of NF, and were totally irrelevant to the 'don't push yourself' talk, which even if they don't have Limit Breaks, should be more than okay to be inclusive. The 4 of you are friends FOR 10 FREAKIN YEARS!! WTF BIAS!?
:nod:
Fanservice taken too far. They were completely IGNORED!:twitch:
WTF! Vita was almost killed in action in ep 17 and Hayate's their LEADER! Not even a second glance...
Well... The other two didn't really say much about good lucks as well...:p
Nightengale
2007-08-13, 21:04
Thank You Nightengale. See Chaos I'm not the only who thinks Vivio had a greater proposes then a plot device. :p
LOL. My point further proves she IS a plot device.
My point was that in my opinion, there was at least ONE decent NxF scene that came out of it, and no, the mama-ones got boring the 2nd time they showed it. And they showed it more than twice.
If they took half the time they spent on the Vivio thing, and churned it out A LITTLE to what we got in the SS02 with the Fate-mama dilemma over Erio/Caro...that would've been much better. Fate, Caro, Erio gets better development, and rather than boring ~moe animated, we get drama animated.
Since well... most NxF scene in StrikerS imo, amounts to ~meh from a technical standpoint. They showed us nothing new in their dimensions of friendship that we don't know, and I thought the incessant amount of time used for NxF could really be used to shine on the trio's friendship trinity instead, which for some reason, despite promotional materials of them 3 being together... they don't really execute them all that well.
Mind you, that while I do not particularly like NxF, I can appreciate what they bring in terms of extra character development and dynamics to the story. The problem is that...they bring nothing new.
Dark Wing
2007-08-13, 21:17
LOL. My point further proves she IS a plot device.
Why does it feel like I'm fighting a losing battle here...:heh:
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-13, 21:27
Sorry, had to hide, supervisior came in...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh Chaos you and your anti-yuri-ism :rolleyes:
Nonsense! That's just PURELY coincidental that she's related to NxF ... :)
Vivio was there at RF:6 HQ for the sake of NxF fan service so her being there was going to happen regardless. They messed up by making it so long. Also I would've like to see Vivio show off some amazing powers as well but alas it was not to be.:upset:
But this way, I have someone to point fingers at :)
I wouldn't go that far personally, since Vivio was the catalyst of the only good NxF scene in the past 3 episodes, the one where Nanoha cried.
That particular line wasn't suppose to be taken seriously :heh:
It won't help my case :p
Why does it feel like I'm fighting a losing battle here...:heh:
Perspective :D
Dark Wing
2007-08-13, 21:37
Well I know I'm not pushing this argument tonight.
Anyway all I know is that since this series is going to end in 6 more Episodes the writers better do something epic to make up for the lack of entertainment.:cool:
Nightengale
2007-08-13, 21:52
Why does it feel like I'm fighting a losing battle here...:heh:
Because while Vivio is truly a Saint for those NFers out there (( she milks out NF scenes )), from a non-NFer standpoint, and even from a technical neutral standpoint, we can rationally (( and irrationally )) judge how her appearance and contribution to needless extra NF-screen time jogged up the pacing and screwed up balancing in terms of character development and appropriate screen time accordingly.
And Chaos, to add to what I told you I think was being said earlier...
65% chance of being WRONG. >_<
It does look like the TSAB High Council are the very sponsors of Jail, and it links to how they're the ones behind Zest and Lutecia. Yes, it means that the terror attack on TSAB Ground Central is very much linked back to TSAB themselves, the high brass at least. Which might explain why Jail held back, since he wasn't meant to commit terror, but it was nothing more than a facade to hide the actual reason behind the apparent attack... the assassination of Regius, since that is clearly what TSAB High Council talked about in regards to Zest's purpose alongside protecting Lutecia. However, the awakening of the Cradle itself along with the kidnapping of the Sei-Oh was all purely Jail's personal acts, and I think Sein was talking about how the sponsors might be mad at them and Jail awakening that toy, to which Jail reassures her there's nothing to be worried about.
TAKE WITH A HUGE GRAIN OF SALT, once again, until thisguy or anyone better than me at moonspeak comes and proves me wrong, or proves me right. Damn brains and their hard to make out moon-speak. >_<
However, Sein wins points for talking about 'sponsors getting mad over Cradle's awakening' like how a father would get angry for a child for stealing a cookie from a jar wwwwwwww.
FlareKnight
2007-08-13, 22:18
I'll hold the guns on Vivio, she has had a rough few episodes after all.
I say we can spend a lot of time blaming the writers. They did make some bad choices along the way which we can't fix now. Plus airfare to Japan is just too expensive so we can't go out there and get them....err anyways.
Do feel they went a bit overbaord with all the Vivio time. Nothing against the kid just think with all the characters they could've gone some more things with someone like Hayate. Like a bloody transformation sequence for the hell of it. We got jiped in that regard since the final battle has started and nothing for it. Going to spend an episode getting everyone ready for the battle. Spend 1/4 of it with transformation scenes then :).
arkhangelsk
2007-08-13, 23:06
Chaos! When are going to stop picking on the poor little loli!:upset:
Besides it's not Vivio's or any other characters fault it's the writers fault for not trying hard enough to write around all new characters they were spiting out like every 2 episodes. :rolleyes:
I truthfully believe that 26 episodes isn't long enough for the main plot and sub plots in general and I've been saying this for the longest that should've been 50 episodes at the least 30 if they wanted rap everything up.
All and all they screwed up had they stop adding in side character and focused on the main cast (Caor, Elio, Subaru, Tea, Nanoha, Fate, Hayate, etc.) this blunder would've never happened.
Actually, they could have had everything. The trick is to use half episodes, so we have say 40 half episodes and 6 full length episodes. Any semi-decent director can make most half episodes feel like a full episode using pacing - take out waste time, speed up the exchange ... etc.
There are many advantages to using half episodes. Lots more ground can be covered (so you can have lots of NxFxV while adding Hayate expositions, Caro expositions, investigation, staff planning meetings ... etc). It is also easier - mediocre 20 minute content can be crammed to look good in 10 minutes, and even an awful or just not-my-cup-of-tea 20 minute content might improve to "bearable" by making it only 10 minutes long. Most fights (especially vs drone combat) can still look very good in 10 minutes, because it is the quality and not the quantity of the fight that counts to most, and with a 10 minute fight you are forced to go for quality while saving frames (thus allowing better animation - quality again). Short version: With 10-minute episodes you are forced to be better and yet it is easier to look better at the same time... wonder why they didn't try it.
Now that Alhazred is making a definite reentry into Nanoha plot, I'm wondering...
If I remember right, all that's said of the Lost Logia is that SOME world had developed magic/technology to such a point that some blunder caused the mother of all dimensional distortions, either literally blasting bits of remaining technology to the far ends of infinity or leaving nothing but those artifacts that were elsewhere at the time. Alhazred is described separately as a mythical land where magic was so advanced that it reached the level of divine or miraculous.
Until now I'd thought that most likely Alhazred was at least based on the rumored origin of the Lost Logia. Now that I look back, I can't help but wonder: is there any evidence of this aside from the fact that both issues deal with massive power? After all, one seems to be a well-documented set of artifacts from a known world, whereas the other is a "myth" without any backing evidence. Also, if Alhazred is not the site of origin for at least most of the Lost Logia, might this suggest that Alhazred could be even beyond that?
Part of what made me think of this is the Relics. These seem rather similar to the Jewel Seeds, only stronger, which may mean that the Jewel Seeds were an attempt by an "inferior" civilization to achieve what another had made...
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-08-14, 00:38
Actually, you made a lot of mistakes LOL. :heh:
There was nothing about the flashback about dead lover or anything. It was the "how Jail got the biological data for Sei-Oh through Due" story. :heh:
And Regius and Zest were GOOD FRIENDS, in the past.
And Nanoha asked them to recall and remember every single training they've went through blah blah blah, and how they will not lose to any enemy they face taking everything they've learnt into mind lol.
(( Makes me want to see ALL the Numbers trashing the Forwards. ))
oh sorry about that:heh:...watching all these Nanoha RAWs of the new episodes makes you want to catch the Katakana words and try to make out what they're saying and such...sorry about that though.:heh:
OH, so that flashback was just a some story about teh Chruch through Due...thats kinda...uh not really useful:heh:
Zest and Regius being good friends...so I guess seeing him back alive was like "WTF, I thought you were dead!?"...unless Zest has a story to tell that Regius is a backstabber in battle?...hmmm
Motivation speech by Nanoha. But at the end of this episode, the forwards still looked worried and such.
Thanks for the correction though...I guess my Japanese is still really really rusty...:heh:
It all went to hell when Vivio came on the scene...
First five episodes, all more or less introduction, okay I can accept.
The Teana-Nanoha incident... Not my cup of tea, and too darn long, but I accept...
But it was all lost when that little girl came onto the scene.
Yeah,vivio screentime was way too much.UM for teana,you know she's no one special so she needs that.
Ultima_Rasengan05
2007-08-14, 00:46
I think Chaos meant how the whole plot kinda changed when Vivio came in....the main plot now is to save Vivio while we all thought that the Prophecy/Destruction of TSAB and maybe Project F might all lead to the main plot of the season.
Saving Ginga looks like a side plot now, due to the fact that we might get full attention of Nanoha and Vivio and to see if Nanoha will have to use BUSTER MODE.
Key Board
2007-08-14, 00:56
The impression I have from Vivio is...
Oh wait, we need a reason to give Nanoha more screen time! We can't let Subaru take over completely until the 4th season!
granted it probably it ties into Nanoha's eventual "can I really do anything else besides fight, dilemma" but it does seem rather sudden
next,
Hayate's problem is that her strategy is reactive
She seems to be gambling that if the enemies play all their trump cards earlier, they won't have left to hit back when section six plays THEIR trump cards
given that this is shounen it is effective, but sometimes you wonder if going all out and thinning down the numbers (pun intended) wouldn't be more effective
hmm i wonder,up till now............
Who is smuggling the relics?
Who created vivio?
Why even mention Project F in this series?
Why are the Jewel Seeds even need to be in here?
Key Board
2007-08-14, 01:13
hmm i wonder,up till now............
Who is smuggling the relics?
Who created vivio?
Why even mention Project F in this series?
Why are the Jewel Seeds even need to be in here?
It's not explicitly stated IIRC, but the ones smuggling the relics seems to be Regius
or rather, he is providing a way to deliver it to Scag so it can be stolen by him. He has been providing illegal material to the doctor for years. Vivio was probably made in one of Regius secret labs. Yes, he has some.
The one who had Quint Nakajima killed was probably him too, since she figured out his secret dealings
those microchips do not seem to be actual jewel seeds, but rather something reversed engineered from them
project F is mentioned so they can give Fate and Erio more character development and introduce the element of illegal genetic engineering.
Or the could be just another plot holes especially the jewel seeds and project F parts.To confuse the fans :heh:
More costumer for the SS/Manga if they ever explain em in there :p
Nightengale
2007-08-14, 01:34
It's not explicitly stated IIRC, but the ones smuggling the relics seems to be Regius
or rather, he is providing a way to deliver it to Scag so it can be stolen by him. He has been providing illegal material to the doctor for years. Vivio was probably made in one of Regius secret labs. Yes, he has some.
The one who had Quint Nakajima killed was probably him too, since she figured out his secret dealings
those microchips do not seem to be actual jewel seeds, but rather something reversed engineered from them
project F is mentioned so they can give Fate and Erio more character development and introduce the element of illegal genetic engineering.
Isn't it clear in this episode that CLIENT = TSAB High Council? And that even the TSAB Attack on GC was half-orchestrated by them to 'silence' Regius, which was why Zest was entrusted with the mission to kill Regius/protect Lutecia.
Until Jail shoved the middle finger down their half-assed parenting brains of course, courtesy of Due and the Cradle.
Wouldn't RF6 Commander/Vice/Captain kick ass in the next episode with their limiters released? Like wasn't Fate fighting equally against Tre and the other number in ep 17? Meaning the Numbers were fighting at full strength while RF6 was limited.
Key Board
2007-08-14, 01:37
I had the impression that Regius was acting on their behalf. He has their approval and reports directly to them after all. Somewhere along the way they wanted to cover their tracks, since certain people were close to finding out and Regius was drawing too much attention to himself
But now that I think of it.. hmm...
Nightengale
2007-08-14, 01:45
Wouldn't RF6 Commander/Vice/Captain kick ass in the next episode with their limiters released? Like wasn't Fate fighting equally against Tre and the other number in ep 17? Meaning the Numbers were fighting at full strength while RF6 was limited.
It was IMPLIED that Fate too was at full strength when she fought Tre/Sette, but whatever. Since Tre/Sette are at the base and Fate's going there too, we'll see if they're still equal until Fate goes Limit Break and kick their fine asses (( without a doubt )), or will Fate beat them easily without even Limit Break until Jail pulls out something of his own.
Wouldn't RF6 Commander/Vice/Captain kick ass in the next episode with their limiters released? Like wasn't Fate fighting equally against Tre and the other number in ep 17? Meaning the Numbers were fighting at full strength while RF6 was limited.
Actually I believe Fate and gang was fighting with limiter release in Ep 17.Remember how Zest notice that several 'S' Mages were on the move and decided to retreat.Though it may not be directed at em :heh:
Edit:Gehh... lol beaten by Nighty xD
Aaron008R
2007-08-14, 03:05
In any case, The titles of the subsequent episodes are:
From Wiki:
21: Decisive Battle (Kessen)
22: Pain to Pain
23: Stars Strike
By the way they're naming them, looks like it's all out war from now on. The focuses would undoubtedly be shifting. Episode 23 looks like a Stars Squad episode. Following how they do things, maybe we could get battles until 25(or even 24) and have the last (or last two) episodes as wrap-ups.
In any case, The titles of the subsequent episodes are:
From Wiki:
21: Decisive Battle (Kessen)
22: Pain to Pain
23: Stars Strike
By the way they're naming them, looks like it's all out war from now on. The focuses would undoubtedly be shifting. Episode 23 looks like a Stars Squad episode. Following how they do things, maybe we could get battles until 25(or even 24) and have the last (or last two) episodes as wrap-ups.
I can confirm the battle is nowhere near over at 23 and will definately continue into 24, and possibly 25. :P
Nightengale
2007-08-14, 06:30
I can confirm the battle is nowhere near over at 23 and will definately continue into 24, and possibly 25. :P
Confirmation? Where? Source? :3
Anyway, from the pace they're most comfortable with in execution looking at 11/12 and 16/17, so long as there's no 'stopping pits' in between like the Fate dream, 2 episodes seem about right for Team Cradle and Team Scaglietti to cover their grounds, and another for the Forwards.
But of course, I expect there to be some sort of twist or 2, to add more dimension to the whole situation (( We still don't know WHAT THE HELL ARE RELICS! )) and also extend it by another episode or 2.
Source is Newtype and Animedia magazines. Same source of those episode titles, actually. Episode summaries for 20 (which aired obviously <_<) - 23 were in the newest released. 23's summary was very vague but there's no way the battle is over at that point. Have no fear that this battle is going to be utterly ridiculous in scope. <_<
Nightengale
2007-08-14, 06:44
...
Mind spoiling? >_<
21話 決戦
ゆりかごに突入しなのはとヴィータ。ヴィータは最終決戦へと向かうなのはの力を温存させるため自分が前に出 て必死に戦っていた。
時を同じくしてスバルたちはナンバーズの襲撃により戦力を分断されてしまう。
結界に閉じ込められたティアナは何者かに襲われ、エリオとキャロの前にはルーテシアたちが現わ れる。
そしてスバルはギンガと再会するのだが…。
Episode 21 - Decisive Battle
Nanoha and Vita break into the Cradle. Heading towards the final decisive battle, Vita goes first to preserve Nanoha's strength, and fights desperately. At the same time, the battle strength of Subaru and others is divided by the Numbers. Tiana, confined within a barrier, is attacked, and Lutecia and her summons appear before Elio and Caro. Subaru comes face-to-face with Ginga again, but...
22話 Pain to Pain
機動六課一同が各地で苦戦する中、怪我をしたヴァイスは病院で目覚めた。
一方ルーテシアとガリュー相手に戦っていたエリオとキャロは、なぜ自分たちの敵ではないルーテシアが戦いに 加わるのかと問う。
その頃スカリエッティのアジト内でフェイトは対フェイト用にチューンされた武装を装着したトーレとセッテに 苦戦していた。
また、なのはは傷つきながらも確実にゆりかごの最深部へと近づいていた。そんな彼女の前に新たな敵が現れる 。(ニュータイプ)
なのはは負傷しながらもゆりかごの最奥へと足を踏み入れる。(アニメージュ)
Episode 22 - Pain to Pain
As the Sixth Mobile Division are fighting their various battles, the injured Vice wakes up in the hospital. Meanwhile, Elio and Caro are fighting Lutecia and Garyuu, asking why she is fighting even though she isn't their enemy. In Scaglietti's hideout, Fate has a difficult battle with Tre and Sette with their fine-tuned weapons.
Meanwhile, Nanoha draws closer to the depths of the Cradle despite her injuries, and a new opponent appears before her (Newtype)
Nanoha, ignoring her injuries, walks to to the Cradle's depths on foot. (Animedia)
23話 Stars Strike
ディエチを倒し、ついにゆりかごの最深部"玉座の間"へとたどり着いたなのは。
そこにいたのは意識をなくしたヴィヴィオとゆりかごのシステムを操るクアットロだった。
クアットロはヴィヴィオに関する真実ををなのはに伝え、来るべき最終決戦が始まったことを告げ る。
Episode 23 - Stars Strike
Having defeated Dieci, Nanoha finally reaches the Throne Room in the depths of the Cradle. There she finds an unconscious Vivio, and Quattro, who is operating the Cradle's systems. Quattro tells Nanoha the truth about Vivio, and informs her the final decisive battle they were expecting has come.
Source posted too in case someone wants to check the translation, the friend who did it for me wasn't 100% sure about everything.
arkhangelsk
2007-08-14, 06:57
Hayate's problem is that her strategy is reactive
She seems to be gambling that if the enemies play all their trump cards earlier, they won't have left to hit back when section six plays THEIR trump cards
given that this is shounen it is effective, but sometimes you wonder if going all out and thinning down the numbers (pun intended) wouldn't be more effective
Her strategy is beyond reactive. She allowed her enemies to pile up to the point that they don't need new trump cards to be major threats. Of course, they do have a few new trump cards making them mega-threats ... the most critical of which they probably wouldn't have gotten had she actually planned this out...
I know this view would be controversial, but I'm almost begging for Ep26 to be her court martial. It may not sound very fair because it is not only her fault, but she definitely has enough culpability by now to be court-martialed (even she knows it), and it is the lot of the middle-ranked commander traditionally to eat their own errors and their boss' ... at least she'd be a lot less innocent than a lot of other officers, say the Captain of the USS Indianapolis.
Of course, I know that Ep26 will most likely be lovey-lovey instead.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-14, 06:58
@aers
Ho...? That's interesting...
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-14, 07:02
I know this view would be controversial, but I'm almost begging for Ep26 to be her court martial. It may not sound very fair because it is not only her fault, but she definitely has enough culpability by now to be court-martialed (even she knows it), and it is the lot of the middle-ranked commander traditionally to eat their own errors and their boss' ... at least she'd be a lot less innocent than a lot of other officers, say the Captain of the USS Indianapolis.
I don't think they can afford to court-martial her by the end, not when everything's going to hell.
Ground center would be too mess up...
Of course, I know that Ep26 will most likely be lovey-lovey instead.
NOOOO!!!! There must be Reinforce-class drama and angst!
And the Sacrificial lamb would be...!
Nightengale
2007-08-14, 07:04
I'll keep my mouths shut for most part regarding the spoilers... (( thanks btw, aers ))
C'mon, prove me wrong on that person whom I thought his subplot is closed and sealed shut.
And it also finally proves that Fate is released back at 17, proving Zest's words. >_<
Speaking of court-martials... AND assuming if all of Jail's evil deeds all tie back to TSAB High Council, I would lol if they gave the same "child shouldn't be blamed" thing they gave to Fate...for Jail. I can see the Numbers getting that slack, but I would be rolling if Jail gets it too.
Anyway, TSAB will be too busy blaming dead brains or thick-headed associates to the crime (( maybe Jail too )), to go and find faults with RF6. For all its purpose, the most would be disbandment of RF6, and if they win this, there is no reason for RF6 to exist anymore either.
Aaron008R
2007-08-14, 07:05
21話 決戦
ゆりかごに突入しなのはとヴィータ。ヴィータは最終決戦へと向かうなのはの力を温存させるため自分が前に出 て必死に戦っていた。
時を同じくしてスバルたちはナンバーズの襲撃により戦力を分断されてしまう。
結界に閉じ込められたティアナは何者かに襲われ、エリオとキャロの前にはルーテシアたちが現わ れる。
そしてスバルはギンガと再会するのだが…。
Episode 21 - Decisive Battle
Nanoha and Vita break into the Cradle. Heading towards the final decisive battle, Vita goes first to preserve Nanoha's strength, and fights desperately. At the same time, the battle strength of Subaru and others is divided by the Numbers. Tiana, confined within a barrier, is attacked, and Lutecia and her summons appear before Elio and Caro. Subaru comes face-to-face with Ginga again, but...
22話 Pain to Pain
機動六課一同が各地で苦戦する中、怪我をしたヴァイスは病院で目覚めた。
一方ルーテシアとガリュー相手に戦っていたエリオとキャロは、なぜ自分たちの敵ではないルーテシアが戦いに 加わるのかと問う。
その頃スカリエッティのアジト内でフェイトは対フェイト用にチューンされた武装を装着したトーレとセッテに 苦戦していた。
また、なのはは傷つきながらも確実にゆりかごの最深部へと近づいていた。そんな彼女の前に新たな敵が現れる 。(ニュータイプ)
なのはは負傷しながらもゆりかごの最奥へと足を踏み入れる。(アニメージュ)
Episode 22 - Pain to Pain
As the Sixth Mobile Division are fighting their various battles, the injured Vice wakes up in the hospital. Meanwhile, Elio and Caro are fighting Lutecia and Garyuu, asking why she is fighting even though she isn't their enemy. In Scaglietti's hideout, Fate has a difficult battle with Tre and Sette with their fine-tuned weapons.
Meanwhile, Nanoha draws closer to the depths of the Cradle despite her injuries, and a new opponent appears before her (Newtype)
Nanoha, ignoring her injuries, walks to to the Cradle's depths on foot. (Animedia)
23話 Stars Strike
ディエチを倒し、ついにゆりかごの最深部"玉座の間"へとたどり着いたなのは。
そこにいたのは意識をなくしたヴィヴィオとゆりかごのシステムを操るクアットロだった。
クアットロはヴィヴィオに関する真実ををなのはに伝え、来るべき最終決戦が始まったことを告げ る。
Episode 23 - Stars Strike
Having defeated Dieci, Nanoha finally reaches the Throne Room in the depths of the Cradle. There she finds an unconscious Vivio, and Quattro, who is operating the Cradle's systems. Quattro tells Nanoha the truth about Vivio, and informs her the final decisive battle they were expecting has come.
Source posted too in case someone wants to check the translation, the friend who did it for me wasn't 100% sure about everything.
I see... No mention of Signum versus Zest?
At least Vice seems to have a chance of redemption.:D
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-14, 07:13
At least Vice seems to have a chance of redemption.:D
Question is, will he survive it this time?
Cause it's always the injuried... :uhoh:
Her strategy is beyond reactive. She allowed her enemies to pile up to the point that they don't need new trump cards to be major threats.
OTOH, before ep 16, Regius (which is her superior) wouldn't let Hayate attack Jail.
Aaron008R
2007-08-14, 07:30
I don't think they can afford to court-martial her by the end, not when everything's going to hell.
Ground center would be too mess up...
There's no way that this'll end up like the original Gundam.:heh: RF6 would most likely get a hero's welcome and wallow in internal angst later.
NOOOO!!!! There must be Reinforce-class drama and angst!
And the Sacrificial lamb would be...!
First, it was a psychotic old woman. Second, a relatively still young-looking female program... They get younger and younger by the season, ne, Chaos?:D
Question is, will he survive it this time?
Cause it's always the injuried... :uhoh:
Nah... Unless the song 'Pray' plays by the fall of the Mahou Sniper Traumatized Vice...:uhoh: But I say he's got as much chance to survive as Zafira. Which is close to 90% because of unintentional shaft armor...:eyespin:
arkhangelsk
2007-08-14, 07:45
Anyway, TSAB will be too busy blaming dead brains or thick-headed associates to the crime (( maybe Jail too )), to go and find faults with RF6. For all its purpose, the most would be disbandment of RF6, and if they win this, there is no reason for RF6 to exist anymore either.
Knowing for sure that Hayate's court martial will not be the ending:
If TSAB was a realistic organization, I bet they won't even let the public know that they've basically been ruled by Melchior, Balthasar and Caspar for decades. And Blaming other generals will only further erode the badly damaged credibility. Under such circumstances, a scapegoat is needed, fast.
And Hayate is the perfect target. She's a middle-rank officer who is the commander of a unit that's meant to prevent our current crisis from happening. Obviously, that part failed miserably.
Either by process or by result, there's enough against her it will be impossible for her sponsors to seriously defend her. In fact, if they put too much of a fight, they might be held responsible for pushing "such a young, inexperienced officer" into command "of a post with such critical importance" and come away badly damaged themselves. Of course, at this point, no one will remember that they themselves doubted the prophecy...
Without real personal power or rank, there will be no way for her to fight off the attack with personal clout. Further, Hayate has this overripe guilt complex and probably won't even put up too much of a fight - the Book of Darkness incident isn't really her fault at all, yet she still holds that guilt with her everywhere she goes...
Realistically, the court martial is the logical result. Of course, the real tragedy is that realistically, Hayate should have been experienced enough that she shouldn't have allowed things to deteriorate to this point! Poor Hayate, already shafted as a character, shafted as a commander as well just to advance a plot point. The only consolation is that Seven Arcs won't dare write out this ending. Cry, Hayate fans, cry...
OTOH, before ep 16, Regius (which is her superior) wouldn't let Hayate attack Jail.
1) Source? I definitely don't remember anything like this.
2) Considering she did not have Scarlietti's location at the time, this point is moot.
3) She could still have been more proactive in capturing Lutecia, Zest and the Numbers when they showed up.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-14, 07:48
Are Lt Colonels considered middle ranked :confused: ?
First, it was a psychotic old woman. Second, a relatively still young-looking female program... They get younger and younger by the season, ne, Chaos?:D
PURE coincidence :nod:
Nah... Unless the song 'Pray' plays by the fall of the Mahou Sniper Traumatized Vice...:uhoh: But I say he's got as much chance to survive as Zafira. Which is close to 90% because of unintentional shaft armor...:eyespin:
If that's the case... Then I know how he can earn cool points...
Though they have to rip off Silentscope by having him shoot a bind that's attached to both Teana and a crazed dying Number. Of which the latter is draging the former down by hanging over a building...
Aaron008R
2007-08-14, 07:52
If that's the case... Then I know how he can earn cool points...
Though they have to rip off Silentscope by having him shoot a bind that's attached to both Teana and a crazed dying Number. Of which the latter is draging the former down by hanging over a building...
Or maybe give a headshot to a Number who's holding Caro hostage to get over his trauma...
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-14, 07:53
Or maybe give a headshot to a Number who's holding Caro hostage to get over his trauma...
No no, that would be stepping over Erio's turf...
Cool guys don't do that (:heh:)
Aaron008R
2007-08-14, 07:56
Oh well. Headshot the Bombardier Otto?
He's with Lutecia and GuyverGaryuu. :heh:
1) Source? I definitely don't remember anything like this.
If I understood this thread properly, Regius was helping Jail at "Naked Brains"' request. So, how could he allow his subordinates to attack him directly?
Aaron008R
2007-08-14, 08:02
And those brains were planing to have Regius assassinated, right? But he's still alive... Maybe that could provide some further details later.
arkhangelsk
2007-08-14, 08:04
He can't very well say outright "No one is to capture Scarlietti." Not that Hayate will even ask Reggie if she has his location. She might talk briefly to Carim, and that's about it.
But recent events do make it clear why no one ever assists RF6. Regius probably told them to "mind their own sectors". Still, he can't outright ban people arresting Scarlietti without looking too wierd.
Without real personal power or rank, there will be no way for her to fight off the attack with personal clout. Further, Hayate has this overripe guilt complex and probably won't even put up too much of a fight - the Book of Darkness incident isn't really her fault at all, yet she still holds that guilt with her everywhere she goes...
As pointed by Auris RF6 was created in a sort that its leader could serve as a political "fuse" as needed (at least that's how i understood her exchange with Regius), so your scenario may happend and Hayate may be looking forward due to some martyr complex.
Realistically, the court martial is the logical result. Of course, the real tragedy is that realistically, Hayate should have been experienced enough that she shouldn't have allowed things to deteriorate to this point! Poor Hayate, already shafted as a character, shafted as a commander as well just to advance a plot point. The only consolation is that Seven Arcs won't dare write out this ending. Cry, Hayate fans, cry...
I know that it was already debated but i cant still really understand her decision of keeping the heavy hitters (Nanoha, Fate and Signum) inside weaponless rather that out patrolling the perimeter, i suppose plot necessity trump everything.
And Hayate is the perfect target. She's a middle-rank officer who is the commander of a unit that's meant to prevent our current crisis from happening. Obviously, that part failed miserably.
Very few people knew that, they're all Hayate's supporter, and if anything, they don't want anyone else to know that their plan was a failure.
Officially, Section 6 was just an "experimental squad, allowed to operate for a limited time" (ep 13). So, if it doesn't do much good, the unit is tagged as a "failed experiment", and that's that.
I know this view would be controversial, but I'm almost begging for Ep26 to be her court martial.
Hey, I know!
Hayate is the King from the prophecy -- the Wolkenritters' Master.
Seeing her court-martialed doesn't go well with her Knights, who decide to wreak havoc and destroy completely the TSAB. Hence the prophecy is fulfilled.
How's that? :p
arkhangelsk
2007-08-14, 08:24
Very few people knew that, they're all Hayate's supporter, and if anything, they don't want anyone else to know that their plan was a failure.
Officially, Section 6 was just an "experimental squad, allowed to operate for a limited time" (ep 13). So, if it doesn't do much good, the unit is tagged as a "failed experiment", and that's that.
This structure will allow her bosses to safely isolate themselves should they choose to.
But it won't save Hayate from much. Experimental or not, her unit has been granted an enormous amount of rare and precious combat power. Even with the limiters on, the overall combat coefficient of the unit will be no lower than Sections 1-5, and the whole world will remember that Hayate could freely release the limiters on Nanoha and Fate, and thus the real combat coefficient of the unit is much higher.
Despite this, what had happened. Loss of HQ. 50% casualties. Partial responsibility for failure to protect HQ (RF6 probably had a combat coefficient worth the rest of that useless defense force), and I'm sure a good prosecutor can upgrade it to "primary" in the eyes of even a fair minded judge and jury, never mind an angry and frightened crowd looking for someone to blame so they can hang on to tranquility. The Relics they are chasing after and someone they were protecting being used in combination to activate ancient Lost Logia weapon by scientist they were also chasing after. Any one of these is potential court-martial material, and two or more together will be beyond protection, the more so due to the enormous amount of resources it had been granted.
Hey, I know!
Hayate is the King from the prophecy -- the Wolkenritters' Master.
Seeing her court-martialed doesn't go well with her Knights, who decide to wreak havoc and destroy completely the TSAB. Hence the prophecy is fulfilled.
How's that? :p
Here's where Hayate's guilt complex will save the TSAB... poor, poor Hayate. Fortunately, none of all this will happen.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-14, 08:44
@arkhangelsk
It's not going to happen.
Because even if Hayate just rolls over, there are people that won't.
Take Acous for an example, if anybody tries to pin this on her, he's going to come over with all of their dirty little secrets.
And not to mention the Church, Carim is an important figure in the TSAB. The two Haralown Admirals, they definately have enough influence. The three lengendary Admirals...
Nobody's hanging her out to dry.
Nightengale
2007-08-14, 08:48
@arkhangelsk
It's not going to happen.
Because even if Hyate just rolls over, there are people that won't.
Take Acous for an example, if anybody tries to pin this on her, he's going to come over with all of their dirty little secrets.
And not to mention the Church, Carim is an important figure in the TSAB. The two Haralown Admirals, they definately have enough influence. The three lengendary Admirals...
Nobody's hanging her out to dry.
Not to mention Jail's already killed those "higher than her supporters" who are more than willing to hang her dry, if necessary.
But whatever, Hayate getting a relative-not-so-good end is almost out of the question, even if it's the rational outlook of the situation.
arkhangelsk
2007-08-14, 09:10
Not to mention Jail's already killed those "higher than her supporters" who are more than willing to hang her dry, if necessary.
He killed the three brains and Regius is incapacitated, but that still leaves the remaining TSAB senior staff who will be desperate to stick this mess onto as few people as low on the ladder as possible so as to minimize the disastrous loss of prestige in this incident - if the TSAB goes down, they go down too. Those will be the trail people.
But whatever, Hayate getting a relative-not-so-good end is almost out of the question, even if it's the rational outlook of the situation.
Never disagreed with this.
@arkhangelsk
It's not going to happen.
Because even if Hayate just rolls over, there are people that won't.
Take Acous for an example, if anybody tries to pin this on her, he's going to come over with all of their dirty little secrets.
First problem, the 3 brains are all dead and Regius will soon receive justice. Thus, he can't threaten to blab their little secrets. If you believe that the TSAB is a relatively clean organization, it'd be hard for Acous to come up with something quick. And doing so will be blackmail more than anything.
And not to mention the Church, Carim is an important figure in the TSAB. The two Haralown Admirals, they definately have enough influence. The three lengendary Admirals...
Nobody's hanging her out to dry.
The three admirals are respected, but are not in command authority anymore.
Lindy and Carim are powerful in the TSAB, being near the top, but this case is too clear cut. They won't be able to come up with a good enough reason to stop the proceedings. I mean, "OK, Lindy and Carim, you two want to stop the court martial of a commander who, despite having powerful attachments (Nanoha and Fate) that increased the unit's combat coefficient to about 10 times that of units of comparable stature, lost her HQ, lost 50% of combat power in 20 minutes, failed to protect a very valuable person in their protection, which led directly to the near destruction of our world and our organization ... don't you think any one of these circumstances, even in the singular, might warrant a most thorough investigation and the most appropriate judgment dispensed?"
"Or would that be because she's your son's friend? That would certainly explain why you chose to place an experimental unit not in the hands of a veteran leader, but this first-command-opportunity, 19-year-old Yagami Hayate... We all know about your nepostic ways, Lindy, but this is just going too far..."
Aaron008R
2007-08-14, 09:12
@arkhangelsk
It's not going to happen.
Because even if Hayate just rolls over, there are people that won't.
Take Acous for an example, if anybody tries to pin this on her, he's going to come over with all of their dirty little secrets.
And not to mention the Church, Carim is an important figure in the TSAB. The two Haralown Admirals, they definately have enough influence. The three lengendary Admirals...
Nobody's hanging her out to dry.
:nod::nod::nod:
Not to mention Jail's already killed those "higher than her supporters" who are more than willing to hang her dry, if necessary.
But whatever, Hayate getting a relative-not-so-good end is almost out of the question, even if it's the rational outlook of the situation.
:nod::nod::nod:
He killed the three brains and Regius is incapacitated, but that still leaves the remaining TSAB senior staff who will be desperate to stick this mess onto as few people as low on the ladder as possible so as to minimize the disastrous loss of prestige in this incident
It would have been possible to court-martial her after episode 17. But now it's too late: she'll save the world in a little while, and then she might be too much of a hero to be a good scapegoat.
Or maybe the TSAB will say something like "All is Hayate's fault, but since she repaired her errors and we're very nice guys, we'll overlook her mistake this time."
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-14, 09:23
He killed the three brains and Regius is incapacitated, but that still leaves the remaining TSAB senior staff who will be desperate to stick this mess onto as few people as low on the ladder as possible so as to minimize the disastrous loss of prestige in this incident - if the TSAB goes down, they go down too. Those will be the trail people.
If Hayate goes down, they go down.
It's that simple as well.
Love is a powerful force, makes people dangerous.
Chrono, Fate, Acous... All investigators.
There's another reason they can't court-martial Hayate. Ground Forces will need some heroes to trot out to the public if they want to come out of this as anything more than the incompetents they are. Since RF6 appears to be singlehandedly saving GF HQ and taking down the Cradle at the same time, they get to be the ones. Therefore, they can't praise her and court-martial her at the same time. They can't even force her to resign because she never turned her forces against the TSAB itself.
arkhangelsk
2007-08-14, 09:25
Who knows. Maybe Seven Arcs will shaft her one last time and leave the whole blow up Cradle thing to Nanoha and Fate. Since I can't even be sure she gave effective commands so far ... hmm...
Anyway, legitimately, stopping the world from ending would not end Hayate's culpability in this. Still, I would agree in the unlikely event of my court martial scenario coming to pass, most likely the punishment will be light due to this - maybe the loss of two ranks or something.
There's another reason they can't court-martial Hayate. Ground Forces will need some heroes to trot out to the public if they want to come out of this as anything more than the incompetents they are. Since RF6 appears to be singlehandedly saving GF HQ and taking down the Cradle at the same time, they get to be the ones. Therefore, they can't praise her and court-martial her at the same time. They can't even force her to resign because she never turned her forces against the TSAB itself.
Here's a realistic solution. Court-martial the commander. Make the heroes Nanoha and Fate, succeeding despite Hayate's incompetence. Generally, junior officers make good heroes. Senior officers make good scapegoats. Generals should be above it all but neverthless give themselves medals anyway.
Given how Seven Arcs likes to shaft Hayate, this at least will not be an unfavorable idea to them.
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-14, 09:36
Ahhh.... I see where this is going...
Okay okay...
Nightengale
2007-08-14, 09:38
Ahhh.... I see where this is going...
Okay okay...
And your point?
arkhangelsk
2007-08-14, 09:45
He means the brick wall, me.
He just doesn't know how to have fun :D
Chaos2Frozen
2007-08-14, 09:46
And your point?
My... Point :confused: ?
Well... Usually when I see where it's going... I know where it's going :eyebrow:
He means the brick wall, me.
He just doesn't know how to have fun :D
Wrong, I just understand where it's going.
Estavali
2007-08-14, 10:49
Sigh, all this talk about Hayate's shafting makes me very sad, to the point of crying, seriously :(. I believe we can all think of better ways of developing her in StrikerS, especially with her unique position as a young commander and an Ancient Belkan mage-knight who feels that the higher-ups only see her as merely a convenient tool. The A's to StrikerS manga gave me so much hope of her taking a darker path and getting some serious character development, and the anime has dashed it all to smithereens :bash:.
Though she's not the only one whom we should pity. Erio's human eel ability is very much left untouched on as well so far (if I'm not wrong, unlike Fate, he's the real natural lightning-user). If used well, that would no doubt give him a better edge in battle.
Come to think of it, in terms of story-telling, the manga seems to handle it in a much better manner than the anime. Not much useless debris, and details are presented in a straight-to-the-point manner imho.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.