The Raki discussion

[NoSanninWa]

This thread is the place to discuss Raki's character and his role on the show. It is a place to discuss his relationship with Clare and even the chance that he might become Helen's boy toy. It is not a Raki hate thread.

It is pointless to post merely to say that you dislike Raki and will only cause your post to be deleted. If you have specific complaints about his character or his role in this story, then please express your reasons coherently. Only that way can we have a discussion. Otherwise we just have two camps yelling at each other without listening.

[maian330]

Raki would be a great character in a school drama. In a dark fantasy though, Raki is just an (unfortunately) necessary nuisance. As I said before, kids don't have a place on the battlefield.

I do find it pretty interesting that most people would go a lot easier on Raki if he were a girl. Says something about our stereotypes :)

[Twisted Reality]

Raki would be a great character in a school drama. In a dark fantasy though, Raki is just an (unfortunately) necessary nuisance. As I said before, kids don't have a place on the battlefield.

I do find it pretty interesting that most people would go a lot easier on Raki if he were a girl. Says something about our stereotypes :)

To the first: What's wrong with war orphans or useless kids growing up in a dark fantasy world? It worked for Berserk. A large part of the cast of Berserk is pretty much composed of war orphans or downtrodden peasants living in the face of oppression, famine, disease and the supernatural.

Raki is just plain underdeveloped. This is the Claymores' show anyway. Do you see villagers do anything other than stand in their quaint little town-squares and gawk at the Claymores entering town? No?

I mean it's pretty funny that the first "Northern City" we see is just the same rustic town with a lot of snow -- and the gawkers stand around in parkas instead. Nothing distinguishes one rustic town plopped into the middle of the wilderness from another rustic town plopped in the middle of the wilderness.

Point is: Human civilization gets no attention. Raki is just a two-dimensional representative of a two-dimensional world. Even for a lack of world-building, the plight of the ordinary Joe just isn't paid attention to.

To the second: Meh. I personally think the whole Raki-hating is overplayed. He's somewhat annoying, but for the most part he's so undeveloped that he's beneath my attention. I think people are pretending to be more outraged than they are.

Personally I would probably be harder on Raki if he were some helpless and delicate moe-girl. That's probably Priscilla's role anyway.

[Cruel]

Well of course, Raki is an important character and I'm hoping he gets stronger as well. But, right now I just hope he doesn't follow Clare anymore.

I'm hoping Raki falls in love with Priscilla and Isely makes him some kind of Yoma/Claymore. I'm then thinking that Clare might have to be the one to kill him in the end. Just my thoughts! : P

[Anh_Minh]

Raki and Clare fighting to the death, with tears streaming down their faces, screaming each other's names... Don't you think it's been overplayed?

Also, for Raki to side with Priscilla, you'd either have to convince Raki that eating people (like his family was eaten) is OK, or you'd have to make him Awaken, which would take away much of the drama, since, even though it'd hurt, Clare would know he has to be killed.

[maian330]

What's wrong with war orphans or useless kids growing up in a dark fantasy world? It worked for Berserk. A large part of the cast of Berserk is pretty much composed of war orphans or downtrodden peasants living in the face of oppression, famine, disease and the supernatural.

Raki is just plain underdeveloped. This is the Claymores' show anyway. Do you see villagers do anything other than stand in their quaint little town-squares and gawk at the Claymores entering town? No?

I mean it's pretty funny that the first "Northern City" we see is just the same rustic town with a lot of snow -- and the gawkers stand around in parkas instead. Nothing distinguishes one rustic town plopped into the middle of the wilderness from another rustic town plopped in the middle of the wilderness.

Point is: Human civilization gets no attention. Raki is just a two-dimensional representative of a two-dimensional world. Even for a lack of world-building, the plight of the ordinary Joe just isn't paid attention to.

That's a good point. But I still wish Raki were at least a teenager, already somewhat hardened by the world yet still retaining his ideals. At the very least, he'd whine a lot less.

I say all this "kids don't have a place in the battlefield" stuff, because I'm distinctly reminded of John Steinbeck's novel The Pearl. In that story, a family is being chased by some pursuers. The mother and her baby try to hide, but the baby cries, attracting the pursuers' attention, leading to their deaths. There are countless other stories that go along the same lines - children inadvertently causing disaster. I see Raki doing almost the same thing at times. Imagine what would've happened if Clare actually did awaken in Rabona - that would've been a disaster that Raki would be partially responsible for.

So all we can rely on is the fact that he's a plot device and that Clare's the main character, so his actions shouldn't inadvertently kill Clare, but who knows what the next stupid thing he'll do is... And hopefully, he'll finally grow up to be a fine man.

[xVxObliVioNxVx]

Raki is just plain underdeveloped. This is the Claymores' show anyway. Do you see villagers do anything other than stand in their quaint little town-squares and gawk at the Claymores entering town? No?

Hmm, how is Raki underdeveloped? So far in the storyline he is the second most developed character in Claymore. And him and Clare are the only characters that have shown any growth and further character development in the storyline.

[PGilis]

Raki and Clare fighting to the death, with tears streaming down their faces, screaming each other's names... Don't you think it's been overplayed?


Yeah. That will never happens. And even if such scenario ever happens, Raki would just realize what he became and let Clare kill him or just killing himself, that way fullfilling the promise he made to Clare, of protect her someday.

But i think such scenario would be very similar to Ophelia's death.

[Twisted Reality]

Hmm, how is Raki underdeveloped? So far in the storyline he is the second most developed character in Claymore. And him and Clare are the only characters that have shown any growth and further character development in the storyline.
Even minor Claymore characters get way more development. The author lavishes so much attention on each Claymore. He even sometimes even goes lengths emphasizing how their "special ability" is result of their personality and attitudes. Theresa achieves a catharsis. Irene achieves a catharsis. Ophelia was around for one episode and achieved a resolution in conflict. Priscilla winds up driving the conflict of both the Theresa arc and creates more conflict as one of Clare's antagonists.

Raki is just cook who isn't really all that able to defend Clare that well. He never had to doubt why he's protecting Clare, so we never get to see his motivations in-depth. And there's no conflict so far that I've seen that really forces him to grow. And if the author really wanted to go into detail about Raki, he'd spend more time focusing on the human world instead of the Claymore one.

[PGilis]

Do we really got to see ANYONE in this series who never got need of help? :heh:

Clare was saved plenty of times; the fab-four Miria, Deneve and Helen too were saved against that male A.O., Jean was saved by Clare with the help of Galatea, and even Galatea was saved by Jean and Clare after that. Heck, even the most BADASS character in the Claymore world so far, Teresa, was saved by loli-Clare from the one-armed-dude!!

So far, Raki is the most developed HUMAN character in the Claymore world. No one else has better explanation. We don't even know anything about the members of the Organization besides some names.

Besides, we never got to see more development on Raki because he never changed his main objetive of life: Stay with Clare. But he discovered he need strenght to do that. Tha's why he's pushing himself to get stronger, walking all alone.

Funny enough, that's in a way the same objetive of Teresa in episodes 6-8, but i never saw anyone calling her underdeveloped. :p

[xVxObliVioNxVx]

You made some great points there PGilis! But allow me to further clarify how much developed Raki is.

Even minor Claymore characters get way more development. The author lavishes so much attention on each Claymore. He even sometimes even goes lengths emphasizing how their "special ability" is result of their personality and attitudes. Theresa achieves a catharsis. Irene achieves a catharsis. Ophelia was around for one episode and achieved a resolution in conflict. Priscilla winds up driving the conflict of both the Theresa arc and creates more conflict as one of Clare's antagonists.

Raki is just cook who isn't really all that able to defend Clare that well. He never had to doubt why he's protecting Clare, so we never get to see his motivations in-depth. And there's no conflict so far that I've seen that really forces him to grow. And if the author really wanted to go into detail about Raki, he'd spend more time focusing on the human world instead of the Claymore one.

I have to respectfully disagree. Allow me to point out how Raki has been developing through out the anime:

Ep. 1
- Raki starts off as an ignorant character. He pretty much knows nothing of the world outside his village and much less of Claymores.
- We learn of his past, of how his family was murdered by a Yoma. And we learn of his current occupation, a cook.
- We learn that Raki is fearless during his confrontation with a Claymore and during his confrontation with the Yoma.
- However, we learn that he is weak minded, considering the mental break down he went through right after Clare killed his brother in a rather monsterous state, and the even larger mental break down he went through when witnessing his parents being eaten by a Yoma.
- His ignorants of the world outside his village is further shown as he fails survive on his own after being thrown out of the village.
- Lastly, we witness his attachment to Clare. He has lost everything, and the only thing left is this Claymore, the only person in the world that gives a damn about him, hence why he calls her sister, and fallows her like a little brother would fallow an older sister.

Ep. 2
- In this episode Raki learns more about Claymores, and becomes one of the few humans who can accept what Claymores are: half monsters.
- We further witness how Raki is emotionally a weak minded person, when he breaks down and cries after Clare kills her best friend.

Ep. 3
- In this episode, we witness for the first time Raki's desire to protect Clare. When the soldier started talking smack about Clare, he punched him in the face, despite knowing that the guy was stronger them.
- Clare is only thing he has left, the only person who cares for him, hence why he has a desire to protect her, and why he cared for her so much when she was at brink of dying.

Ep. 4
- In this episode we witness how he was willing to die with Clare. When Clare asked to be killed for going over her limit, Raki threw himself onto her and was willing to die along with Clare. From this we see that Raki has NOTHING worth living for but for Clare.
- Lastly we learn about Raki's purpose in life. At the end of the episode, Raki decides that he wants to become stronger inorder to protect Clare. Clare is the only thing he has left, the only thing worth living for. Teresa had a similar purpose, which was to live for Clare, as PGilis pointed out. Now Raki has taken her place and is the one who is living for Clare.

Ep. 9-11
- Through out this episode we witness Raki's continously worried about Clare. Nothing is on his mind, but Clare. All he does is look at the montain Clare went to. Then at the end we witness him being overjoyed as Clare returns and runs straight to her.

Ep. 12
- Once again we witness Raki protecting Clare. Only this time, he witness that he is willing to jump into a blazing fire for her.
- Furthermore, we once again witness that Raki is fearless in the face of a dangerous Claymore, and a monsterous Awakened being. He fights to his lest breath. He may be weak minded, but he has a strong heart.

Ep. 19
- Here we finally witness Raki further developing. At first he was ignorant and weak. But the fact that he is capable of surviving on his own in the north shows just how strong he has become and how much he knows of the world around him.
- In fact, he has grown so strong, that he managed to save a girl, and in a way becomming more of a adventures hero, then simple little village cook.

None of the characters in Claymore show this much development with the exception of Clare. We witness his purpose in life, his desires, his strengths, his weaknesses, his concerns, his knowledge, and his past. And on top of that we witness how he is growing through out the anime. Not even Miria gets that much development, which is the 3rd most developed character in the anime right now. In this episode we witness that Miria has grown much stronger, but we never see how she has grown. But we do see how Clare and Raki grow stronger. We don't even witnessed Miria's purpose in life, nor her past, nor her desires. We witness her strengths, her weakness, her knowlegde, but that is about it. Compared to Raki, she is very much underdeveloped, and the other characters even more so.

[NoSanninWa]

Finally a decent discussion of Raki that doesn't focus on "I hate Raki" vs "Don't whine about him." I have moved these posts from the episode 19 discussion where they were just a digression and would shortly be lost.

I am going to ask everyone to remember that this is not a Raki hate thread. Posting merely to say that you dislike Raki is pointless and will only cause your post to be deleted. If you have specific complaints about his character or role in the story, then please express them as the above posters have. Only that way can we have a discussion.

[Valerion]

I'm thinking with Raki's sword training and the inevitable gap of time the manga puts in the series, the next time we see Raki he might be a badass swordsman, maybe even half yoma. As to whether he's on Clare's or Priscilla's side, I dunno.

[wnmnkh]

I hold my judgement about Raki until I find out how he acts if he realizes that Priscilla is AB. But for now, I would say Raki is one of fine characters in the story; he is a important developing character. (xVxObliVioNxVx pretty said everything I want to say, lol)

But, if we see some cheese after Priscilla's reveal of identity, I will change my mind.

[Kazidoom]

I wonder if the end of Angel Densetsu (same author) hints at what will happen in Claymore.

http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=angeldensetsuv14158me8.png

Seem familiar? Look at the girl he's making his promise to.

http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=angeldensetsuv14159lc8.png

Raki saving Clare, in favor or against?

[hamstar]

yeah the idea for claymore was ripped right out of those 2 pages of angeru densetsu. its pretty obvious.

in the manga i found raki to be a annoyance but in the anime he's more than just someone trying to protect clare...he's a love interest. If you remember the running away from ophelia episode, the way clare made out with a kid....and the look in her eyes. Raki is definately meant to grow up to be clare's love interest not just an annoying side-kick that cant do anything. He' s a huge character and id like to see him again as a grown man probably in claymore form.

[Negativedark]

I'm sure Raki's weak now, but just imagine what'll once he gets a little training. His true hidden sleeping powers will emerge! And then if this is really a shonen Manga, he'll be just uber.

Serously though, Raki is supposed to be the reperesentation of a normal human. Fairly hapless, and if something nasty shows up screwed, but trying his damndest to cope, stay alive, and protect those they love. He kinda reminds me of Ussop from One Piece, in that he's got to cope with a sense of inferiority while working with some real superhumans.

[Flora20709]

Well I think they might turn raki into a awakened being using ishely's skin
i cant wat u see his new powers once he is done :heh:

[Jechtsphere]

What I'm curious is to see what Isley does with him, he could never fight on even ground against anyone but another human so I'm really wondering how or what Isley molds Raki into.

I'm not so sure when they do meet again the both of them will be fighting to the death.

I'm hoping in someway that Raki can become very strong in his time with Isley and at the same time knows what Isley is and it's evil but plays along so he can continue to get stronger until he and Clare find each other and by then hopefully he can be an asset instead of someone who gets in the way.

[Sci-Fi]

The best Raki can hope for is to get as strong as Gak from Ramona and as skilled as he can get from his sword fighting training from Easley/Isley. But compared to regular Yomas, AB's and AO's, that may not be enough. He would have to strike when his target is unaware or the target let's him strike freely.

The first few episodes (anime) and chapters (manga) Raki was pretty annoying, which sabotaged most sympathy the viewers or readers had for his plight. Later on, his character got better, calmer, and showed he had a good heart. Perhaps the mangaka made Raki too emo as part of some role reversal in that fictional universe or wanted to show Raki growth and maturity as the story went on.

Have a feeling Raki will play a pivotal role later in the anime/manga, whether or not some people will accept it. The setup is already being put into place...it a matter how it unfolds.

[Aurica]

I felt that Raki is instrumental in bringing Clare back to human form when she almost awaken while fighting the Voracious Eater in Rabona. Remember how he ran forward and hugged her when she was on the verge of awakening. Clare did similar things to Jean and reverted Jean to her human form.

He probably reminded Clare of herself when she was younger following Teresa around. As another poster mention in another thread. Raki also serves as a human link to the otherwise brutal world of Claymore.

It would be somewhat funny to see Raki grow stronger, or a powerful human faction that can equal the power of the Claymores and that of the Abyssals, and might further complicate the storyline at this stage. Considering there is still a lot of unanswered questions about the Claymores and the world they live in...

My 2 cents.

[Solus]

One of the major metaphors in play with the yoma is that they (like most murderous creatures in anime) tend to derive their worst qualities from humans. They're gruesome parodies of negative human emotions. So to say that Raki is meant to represent the human part of the story, then you have to take into account the human as monsters part of the equation. We never find out where yoma come from, so one possible origin is from people( e.g. a wendigo)

Furthur into this theme is of course a popular quote for human evil:
If you stare into the Abyss long enough the Abyss stares back at you.
- Friedrich Nietzsche
The most powerful awakened ones are called the Abyssal Ones, or Dwellers of the Abyss(that's the translation I prefer anyways), which sort of leads into the Raki situation I think. What does a normal human do when he's surrounded by monsters? He fights, and as he fights, gains power and starts to develop the savage qualities we define as monstrous. I'm guessing that when Isley offers him the power of a Claymore, he's going to take it without a second thought since he will be able to help and protect Claire.

So basically the whiny wimpy Raki is going to evolve into a kick ass Claymore in order to protect Claire. Raki as he first appears is basically the helpless bystandard, which is my least favorite anime stock character since they involve alot of pointless screaming. But! if Raki does end up in the kick ass battle partner category, I'm willing to stomach the first one in order to get at the second.


Anyways, I stop there since this is getting kinda long...

[^Sakon]

Overall I love Raki's character, and wanna see him further develop. Ya he was annoying in the first few eps, but now he's maturing as the story unfolds. One thing about the thing said earlier about the yoma's taking on the worse aspects of the humans, Raki's role and character are direct counterpoint to the violence, its kinda nice tempering heated battles, viscous killing monsters, and cold hearted actions with a little childlike innocence and naivety because it enhances the more brutal scenes.

[Itachi-evil]

I am curious, how Raki in the anime will differ from the Raki in the manga:)

[Leedizzle]

I hate Raki.

In all seriousness, what has Raki brought to the table? Sure, you can say that he humanized Clare, but didn't a humanized Claymore whom I shall not name get well, owned because of her humanization?

I think it is very possible we could have seen a stronger Clare, if Raki was never involved in the process. I mean we could see a complete mirror situation if it were to happen where Clare does not deal the finishing blow in the quickest of manner because of the relationship that she shared with Raki. A prime example and I believe in the only example is Theresa and Clare. Is it destined that Theresa's and Clare's fate must be intertwined this much?

You can say Raki saved Clare from the one church incident but would that have happened the same way if Clare didn't have to babysit a kid?

[-HyugaNeji-]

He will become Gatsu version 2.0 an kick apostle, uuhmmm, Youma's asses day and night :)

[Newguy]

This is what Raki is going to become:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1903/1187360395456rh8.jpg

[Itachi-evil]

haha, nice try;)

But Raki in future will imo definitely have longer hair.

His look will resemble a bit of Isley:D.

[PGilis]

In all seriousness, what has Raki brought to the table? Sure, you can say that he humanized Clare, but didn't a humanized Claymore whom I shall not name get well, owned because of her humanization?

Are the human feelings to blame? Or the one who abused of that said human feelings to cowardly kill her instead? Think about that.


I think it is very possible we could have seen a stronger Clare, if Raki was never involved in the process. I mean we could see a complete mirror situation if it were to happen where Clare does not deal the finishing blow in the quickest of manner because of the relationship that she shared with Raki. A prime example and I believe in the only example is Theresa and Clare. Is it destined that Theresa's and Clare's fate must be intertwined this much?

You can say Raki saved Clare from the one church incident but would that have happened the same way if Clare didn't have to babysit a kid?

No. We would have a DEAD Clare! Or even a FULLY AWAKED Clare! Or maybe a WEAK Clare. Never a stronger Clare! Let's considerate what happened in this Rabona's Arc:


1) Clare was chosen for that mission in Rabona EXACTLY because she had Raki along her, so they could go to Rabona disguised as two traveling siblings. Otherwise, probably any other Claymore stronger than her would be chosen.

2) Was Raki who avoided she would be arrested by that two guards when they started to suspect of her.

3) Without Raki whinning about how much she was special and good hearted, probably they would never trust her enough to treat her wounds... abandoning her to die alone. The two guards would never trust her enough to fight along her against that big youma, too.

4) It was Raki who said to Galk throw to Clare that statue with her sword Claymore inside. Without that, she would be dead by the youma.

5) Even if she could survive all that, she was so wounded she was awaking. So she ASKED to Galk to kill her before she awakens completely. It was Raki who stops him, protecting her with his own body.

Would Clare stop the awaking process with her strongwill alone? Hardly. She tried and failed. That's why she asked Galk to kill her before that. The second time she almost awakens was during episode 17. Galatea saved her, too.


In short, without Raki she would be dead by now... plenty of times.

EDIT:

And besides, the reason because she is strong now is because she half-awake in that mission in Rabona. She was sent her because of him. And the reason because she met Miria, Helen and Deneve in that mission was because she half-awaked.

In other words, even if she was alive without him, she would still be the same stoic and emotionless #47 Claymore, the weakest of them all.

[Salamandra]

If Raki becomes like Guts... I'll be somewhat surprised. He'll only have to become about 7 feet tall, gain 200 pounds and be able to wield a sword which weighs 300kg with one hand.

It actually almost looks real :)

[baioslaio]

If raki becomes the first male warrior that wont awaken easy, then i wont hate him anymore >D

[TheUltimate3]

This is what Raki is going to become:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1903/1187360395456rh8.jpg


:twitch::twitch::twitch:

Ugh...ughhh...When does the new chapters of Claymore come out again...must figure out...how...

[Leedizzle]

Are the human feelings to blame? Or the one who abused of that said human feelings to cowardly kill her instead? Think about that.

Theresa died because she did not lay down the finishing bow when the opportunity was given to her. I think there was two opportunities that could have ended the lives of the four sent to kill her. She did not because she kept on thinking about Clare.


No. We would have a DEAD Clare! Or even a FULLY AWAKED Clare! Or maybe a WEAK Clare. Never a stronger Clare! Let's considerate what happened in this Rabona's Arc:


1) Clare was chosen for that mission in Rabona EXACTLY because she had Raki along her, so they could go to Rabona disguised as two traveling siblings. Otherwise, probably any other Claymore stronger than her would be chosen.

2) Was Raki who avoided she would be arrested by that two guards when they started to suspect of her.

3) Without Raki whinning about how much she was special and good hearted, probably they would never trust her enough to treat her wounds... abandoning her to die alone. The two guards would never trust her enough to fight along her against that big youma, too.

4) It was Raki who said to Galk throw to Clare that statue with her sword Claymore inside. Without that, she would be dead by the youma.

5) Even if she could survive all that, she was so wounded she was awaking. So she ASKED to Galk to kill her before she awakens completely. It was Raki who stops him, protecting her with his own body.

Would Clare stop the awaking process with her strongwill alone? Hardly. She tried and failed. That's why she asked Galk to kill her before that. The second time she almost awakens was during episode 17. Galatea saved her, too.


In short, without Raki she would be dead by now... plenty of times.

EDIT:

And besides, the reason because she is strong now is because she half-awake in that mission in Rabona. She was sent her because of him. And the reason because she met Miria, Helen and Deneve in that mission was because she half-awaked.

In other words, even if she was alive without him, she would still be the same stoic and emotionless #47 Claymore, the weakest of them all.

To say that she would be the weakest of them all would be kinda overblown. I mean yes, Clare does tend to go Super Saiyan when Raki is in trouble, but what would she be without him? She would have continued her quest for vengeance and have gotten stronger. I think a decent example although it does not wholly relate to this issue is in Naruto with Sasuke.

Sasuke who was the loner made friends with Naruto and crew and put his quest on the side. When he realized what he really wanted he abandoned them and gained more power then he could sticking around with "friends".

About the fully awakened Clare, wouldn't that be the best method to go against Priscilla?

I think a fully awakened Clare would be hot.

[xVxObliVioNxVx]

To say that she would be the weakest of them all would be kinda overblown. I mean yes, Clare does tend to go Super Saiyan when Raki is in trouble, but what would she be without him? She would have continued her quest for vengeance and have gotten stronger. I think a decent example although it does not wholly relate to this issue is in Naruto with Sasuke.


Well without Raki, we know that Clare would have never met up with Miria, Deneve, and Helen. And without her, Miria, Deneve, and Helen would have died against that male awakened being. Plus, without Raki, should have never survived her fight with Ophelia, hence never meeting up with Irene.

Now lets assume that Clare does become very strong on her own. Either way, she would have been sent to North to fight awakened beings and without Miria, Jeane, Deneve, and Helen, her chance of survival are extremely slim.

The point is, Clare has a much less chance of survival, and even much lesser chance of killing Pricillia, without Raki.

And if she were to awaken, then she would have a completely different mind set, and she would be more likely to become Priscilla's ally then her enemy.

[Reppa]

This is what Raki is going to become:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1903/1187360395456rh8.jpg


It seems Raki gets some form of steroids in the near future.
:D

[Leedizzle]

Well without Raki, we know that Clare would have never met up with Miria, Deneve, and Helen. And without her, Miria, Deneve, and Helen would have died against that male awakened being. Plus, without Raki, should have never survived her fight with Ophelia, hence never meeting up with Irene.

Now lets assume that Clare does become very strong on her own. Either way, she would have been sent to North to fight awakened beings and without Miria, Jeane, Deneve, and Helen, her chance of survival are extremely slim.

The point is, Clare has a much less chance of survival, and even much lesser chance of killing Pricillia, without Raki.

And if she were to awaken, then she would have a completely different mind set, and she would be more likely to become Priscilla's ally then her enemy.

Clare would not have been killed by Ophelia because she would have never partly awoken in the one arc with the Voracious Eater.

If Clare became strong on her own she would not have been sent North because before Raki it seems Clare was a poster child of what the Organization wanted. The Claymore sent North had problems so they were sent North, and if Clare never had Raki she would never do anything really stupid and she would be sent on regular missions which would not push her to the point where she needs to awaken.

If Clare became allies with Priscilla and shared the same relationship with her as Raki is now sharing with Priscilla, who is to say that is a bad thing.

Yes, I know what I said above just totally ruins the entire reason why Clare is fighting, but a man can dream.

[xVxObliVioNxVx]

If Clare became strong on her own she would not have been sent North because before Raki it seems Clare was a poster child of what the Organization wanted. The Claymore sent North had problems so they were sent North, and if Clare never had Raki she would never do anything really stupid and she would be sent on regular missions which would not push her to the point where she needs to awaken.


The only way Clare can become strong is if she by some chance half awakens without Raki. If she doesn't half awaken, then she has no chance against Pricillia, nor any other awakened being.

Now assuming she does half awaken without Raki inorder to be strong enough, then she would be a problem child to the organization and thus would be sent to the North for extrimination.

[Leedizzle]

I really don't think Clare needs to be half awoken for her to be stronger. Yes, that process does enhance her abilities but the question can be does that stunt her growth because there is less room for it or does it enhance her growth because she is that much stronger that she could do that much more.

If we take into event that she does half awaken and is sent to the North for extermination, what is to prevent her from just fully awakening because of her life mission is threatened?

[Leedizzle]

Sorry about deviating, but I think it still has to deal with Raki. Well it deals with him in a way that he never existed in the Claymore world. :)

[Seska]

sorry, my bad. I misread something.. i am/was sleepy...

[throrine]

hm.. i think i like the mentioned idea of raki more than likely using iselys flesh to become a calymore.. although pricislla is staying offly close to him.. maybe he use .. close contact with her?

lol. just kidding. One reason i can think of that raki would be a stronger clare simply based around power level systems. Is as far as we knew isely is the second strongest around right now.

Maybe Alica can combat him, we havent seen that fight yet.

Prics is most possitivly the most powerful around. Her affection towrd raki could mean it is her flesh or iselys that could go into making him a claymore. Now looking at the normal calymores that the organization produces, i dont think they use awakened beings flesh to create them. So on a average scale of 1-10 raki might be a 8-10. or something like that. taking into consideration that "normal" yoma flesh is probably used in their creation.

let us not forget the semi-present theme in this anime that the monsters who walk in human form constantly, are by far some of the strongest. perhaps so strong they do not even require the eating of human flesh/guts anylonger.

now taking a que from starwars.. will raki turn to the dark side and awaken or try and keep to the light?

[PGilis]

To say that she would be the weakest of them all would be kinda overblown. I mean yes, Clare does tend to go Super Saiyan when Raki is in trouble, but what would she be without him? She would have continued her quest for vengeance and have gotten stronger. I think a decent example although it does not wholly relate to this issue is in Naruto with Sasuke.

Sasuke who was the loner made friends with Naruto and crew and put his quest on the side. When he realized what he really wanted he abandoned them and gained more power then he could sticking around with "friends".



You DARE compare Claymore with DBZ and with Naruto?! How could you?!! :upset: Claymore is more plot-driven and character-centric than those two. Ask to anyone here and they will say the same. There's no way they will follow classic shounen rules here.

How many episodes of Claymore did you saw? Clare IS the weakest of them all! That's why she is the number 47, as stated in episode 09. The reason because she is the weakest is - having Teresa's flesh and blood inside her instead a normal youma's flesh and blood - she is just 1/4 youma 3/4 human, and therefore has a very low youki level. Irene explained that in episode 13.

The reason because she became stronger is because she half-awaked. And because she promised to live to meet Raki someday in episode 12. Even Ophelia - who is very smart for a crazy woman :heh: - could say that. After that she met Irene, who teach her the light sword.

And don't forget she met Jean and Galatea because she was searching for Raki at that city and saw Jean's group there in episode 15. Thanks to that, she fought Duff and learned Galatea's technic and was influenced by Jean's strong will to control the light sword (episode 17).

I really don't think Clare needs to be half awoken for her to be stronger. Yes, that process does enhance her abilities but the question can be does that stunt her growth because there is less room for it or does it enhance her growth because she is that much stronger that she could do that much more.

If we take into event that she does half awaken and is sent to the North for extermination, what is to prevent her from just fully awakening because of her life mission is threatened?

No, there's no way she would become stronger without half-awake. Before meeting Raki, she was already a Claymore for quite a time. Elena stated that in episode 2. Yet she never became stronger than dead-last #47.

Maybe because of Raki she had many problems, but by fighting these many problems she became stronger and one step closer to her main objetive: Meet and fight Priscilla.

[Samuel20709]

All I Think Is That Raki Would only Be Useful If He Takes Some Of Ishely's Flesh Into His Own:heh: And Become Super Raki

[Teresa/Clare1415]

I think Raki will become pretty strong. I'm not that big of a fan of him, but he's a nice guy.

[Ryuk]

I wonder if raki will ever be "youmified" into a male claymore(by someone). The story writer would have make an extremely good plot to allow that, but I see it as the natural conclusion to his character(seeking power). Then I'm guessing he'll screw up and end up fighting with clare as an awakened.

Most likely he will never become a claymore, but it sure would be interesting if he did

[Twisted Reality]

This is what Raki is going to become:

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1903/1187360395456rh8.jpg

Dude! I've been saying that Raki should pull a Guts all along!

I think I want to bear your children now. . .

Okay, in all seriousness, that would still be pretty funny should Raki pull a Black Swordsman.

*Starts torturing a downed Awakened Being with a repeating crossbow*
"Amazing! You really are immortal!"
*shoots more bolts into Awakened Being*

[Twisted Reality]

I think Raki will become pretty strong. I'm not that big of a fan of him, but he's a nice guy.
Nice guys finish last?

[Reppa]

Dude! I've been saying that Raki should pull a Guts all along!

I think I want to bear your children now. . .

Okay, in all seriousness, that would still be pretty funny should Raki pull a Black Swordsman.

*Starts torturing a downed Awakened Being with a repeating crossbow*
"Amazing! You really are immortal!"
*shoots more bolts into Awakened Being*

That could only happen if he sees yoma and instantly thinks Chicken Wing.:D

[Negativedark]

Hey, this thread gives us a convienient place to post all those idea's for what Raki could be like when he's reintroduced.
If Raki becomes an Awakened Bieng.
Claire- No!? Raki's become and Awakened One?!
Helen- Hey it might not be all bad. Those tentacles could be fun.
Claire- What do you mean?
Helen whispers in Claire's ear.
Claire Blushes- How do you even come up with something like that?

[Echoes]

First of all I'd like to say that this thread was a very good, intelligent read. The senseless hate was kept to a minimum, and the discussion has been excellent.
I'll try to offer my own views and opinions on Raki in general and to his part in the story.

It's clear that Raki plays an important role in the plot, for better or worse. He has allowed for many events to take place that otherwise would've had to be left out.
I find Raki to be very strong-willed and determined, though it took me a while to realize this. He's got a strong sense of duty, self-appointed duty, but nevertheless, he keeps his eyes on the goal and doesn't give up. His intention to fight for Clare, and for Clare alone, is heartwarming. I gained a lot of respect for him after the Ophelia arc. Both his ability to keep his mouth shut after receiving cuts that would have sent the average human crying for mercy and his defiant attitude toward Ophelia afterwards, taunting her when his own life was obviously at risk. Due to this, I find it hard to justify the claim that Raki is a whiner, since at the most important moments, he displays calm and endurance. He does complain more than your average Claymore, but applying those standards to a juvenile human boy, who has lost his entire family and still keeps his hopes up, doesn't seem very fair or honest.

Aside from mirroring Clare's childhood, Raki does give Clare something to live for, other than vengeance. This might very well turn out to be a double-edged blade, though, as Clare might be forced down a path where she'll be left having to choose, or a least prioritize one over the other. That would be the ultimate reason to resent Raki, in my eyes, that he'd get in the way of Clare's mission in one way or another, and force her to sacrifice something (possibly herself) in order to ensure his survival. If that happened, I might very well dislike Raki myself, and I think I'd be fully justified in doing so, even if Raki's intentions were nothing but good.

A question on a lot of people's mind is; how strong can Raki become? I think it's clear that without some sort of hybridization, Raki will remain a meat shield, a distraction for the enemy, at best. If he were to be hybridized into some sort of Claymore, things could start looking up for him, and he might be able to fulfill his promise to Clare. I won't dwell too much on these possibilities, as they're more related to the events that might unfold in the coming episodes, than to Raki's role so far.

I didn't touch on much that hasn't already been explained in better terms,I suppose. This is just my humble views on the matter. Cheers.

[Anh_Minh]

Both his ability to keep his mouth shut after receiving cuts that would have sent the average human crying for mercy
Let's not exaggerate. If he was still able to run afterwards, the cuts must have been pretty shallow. They didn't even have to do anything special to stop the blood loss.

Raki's never been superhuman. That's part of his charm.

[^Sakon]

Clare would not have been killed by Ophelia because she would have never partly awoken in the one arc with the Voracious Eater.

If Clare became strong on her own she would not have been sent North because before Raki it seems Clare was a poster child of what the Organization wanted. The Claymore sent North had problems so they were sent North, and if Clare never had Raki she would never do anything really stupid and she would be sent on regular missions which would not push her to the point where she needs to awaken.

If Clare became allies with Priscilla and shared the same relationship with her as Raki is now sharing with Priscilla, who is to say that is a bad thing.

Yes, I know what I said above just totally ruins the entire reason why Clare is fighting, but a man can dream.

actually, about the bold part, she had always been reckless and slightly uncontrolable, due to the her relationship with Theresa. She took on herself the same traits, and even tried to gain the same abilities (obviously she had been honing the yoma reading skill alot, remember Miria's comment on it in the first AB fight?) Obviously they didn't just send those 4 to that AB b/c they messed up once...or there would be a shortage on claymores.lol They had a history of being problem children if you remember. Clare probably would have gotten to a similair strenght, but she wouldn't have copied Galatea's ability, would never have aquired the flash sword, and wouldn't have been thru as many hellish battles and survived without Raki. She has something to live for, so she must live, thats why she didn't awaken, cause Raki was indending to die with her when Galk was gonna slice her head off as she requested. Needing to survive to protect him made her more mentally strong, as well as lead her to copying/aquiring new skills and going thru those harder fights. Now sure, a few fights, she had to live to get her vengeance, its showing the split in her goals, so now she wants to do both, protect Raki, kill Priscilla, and live to be with him. IMO if she HAD fought pris w/o meeting raki, she'd prolly be reckless and end up sacrificing herself to kill her...and probably fail since her arsenal of attacks (and right arm) wouldn't be as advanced.

[Yorae_paladin1]

Raki I do not like he is sadly a third wheel and those kinds of characters I never liked.

Sure he may clares link to humanity but that is all he is good for right now and it is not much links can only last so long.

As for ability in battle he better have great ability by his own power if he becomes a claymore I will not respect him no matter what he does later. One of the reasons I like guts from berserk is cause he fights on his own strength killing creatures that by logic he should not be able to beat he beat by will power and hatred alone.

[Echoes]

Let's not exaggerate. If he was still able to run afterwards, the cuts must have been pretty shallow. They didn't even have to do anything special to stop the blood loss.

Raki's never been superhuman. That's part of his charm.

Point taken, it's not like his life was in danger afterwards because of the injuries, they were rather light cuts, but I'll stand by my point.
If not most humans, then at least almost anyone at his age. Regardless of the actual danger, it must have surely been very very painful and scary.

My intention isn't that he's superhuman either, it's the fact that he's not that makes these feats impressive in the first place.

[Sci-Fi]

From what I've seen/noticed so far, only the Org can make Claymores or combine yoma and human. Otherwise the AO's would have created their own new versions a long time ago and increased their ranks. And since the Org decided to make only female Claymores, Raki is going to stay human...and besides, he's getting a bit too old for the process (see the flashbacks when everybody looked like little kids during their training). And please...no magical armor to make Raki a steroid freak with god powers to kill anyone and everyone with ease. Claymore fans would probably reject Raki even more and Berserk fans would call it a big ripoff of the Guts character.

[^Sakon]

Tru Sci-fi, but remember Riful? She had all the weak AO's killed b/c they didn't measure up to what she wanted/needed. Why make new ones when the Org is doing it already? Ones that are already trained, grown, and require just a little torture to get to awaken? Out of all the yoma/AO's you'd think the Abyssal's would be able to do it, if any could. Also, (anime only, haven't read the manga) they never really say how they were made, just that they put yoma flesh inside them. Might not really be that complicated of a process, just finding a qualifying human, that is willng to do it, AND then awaken for your army would be a bit hard. Now Raki on the other hand, already trusts them, and Easley strikes me as someone who is smart enough to work out a way to connive Raki into doing it. EI: eat this it will make you stronger...raki "hmm ok".

[xVxObliVioNxVx]

and Easley strikes me as someone who is smart enough to work out a way to connive Raki into doing it. EI: eat this it will make you stronger...raki "hmm ok".

Well Easley is only taking interest in Raki because Priscilla likes him so much, otherwise I don't think Easley could careless about him. But I would like to say Raki will be Priscilla's greatest weakness. She is the strongest awakened being, and the only person that is in touch with her emotional side is Raki, which gives him the potential of breaking her down emotionally.

[Negativedark]

Well Easley is only taking interest in Raki because Priscilla likes him so much, otherwise I don't think Easley could careless about him. But I would like to say Raki will be Priscilla's greatest weakness. She is the strongest awakened being, and the only person that is in touch with her emotional side is Raki, which gives him the potential of breaking her down emotionally.

I'm not so sure Easley doesn't care about him. He seems genuinly fond of Raki. It looks like he's having some enjoyment from the sword training. It kinda seems like it makes Easley feel nostalgic. Sorta like getting a dog that's the same breed as you had when you were a kid.

[cellardoor]

well it's true that he's somewhat annoying but the only thing that keeps me liking him is that I strongly believe that he'll become a male claymore at some time in the future. He's all about wanting to be with Clare in the battlefield and being a claymore seems like the most reasonable choice. I mean he can have a lots of talent with sword and chop a truck as an instant but he needs a supernatural power in ordfer to keep up ith Clare and others.. But still it's probably just my dream ^^;;

[xVxObliVioNxVx]

I'm not so sure Easley doesn't care about him. He seems genuinly fond of Raki. It looks like he's having some enjoyment from the sword training. It kinda seems like it makes Easley feel nostalgic. Sorta like getting a dog that's the same breed as you had when you were a kid.

Well the thing is, the only reason Easley asked Raki to come along with him is because Priscilla's interested in him. And remember when he said in episode 20, "Priscilla, if you fancy him, I'll teach him as much of the sword as he wants." He is only putting up with Raki because Priscilla likes him so much. He has shown no personal interest to him, from what I can tell, so I doubt Easley is interested in Raki at all.

[Prongs]

eat this it will make you stronger...raki "hmm ok".

what exatly would he eat? Youma flesh?

There was some hmmm (sorry fforget the sentence arrgh in indonesian tooo)

1. Raki would became a Male Claymore. tough it was a little possibilities. Because
- as we know so far only the Orgs could do the prepanation, Raki is simply too old, but in other hand maybe there was another way to do the prepanation( exam eat the youma Gut and brain OR the flesh, yeah maybe Isley can do the trick hes smart)

2. Raki is still human enchanched with an extra ordinary ability, like gark but he will more powerfull.

3. Raki is Average like man on his age. weak on power but strong on willpower. and fearless too

4. Ends up to became a Prisc prey lose his guts.

but I think Isley will do some stuff to raki hmm Just wait

Ill add my hmmm if I finish the 73 chap

by the way what would Raki or Clare junior looks like. Black haired goddes Teresa aarrrgh

Raki' me Lady I've pass this 7 years only to meet you
Clare' but Raki how how could you..........
Raki' This kingdom is created only for you, you can use them at disposal.
SFX
Habitavit
Dormivit
Caelo missus rex

[Leedizzle]

You DARE compare Claymore with DBZ and with Naruto?! How could you?!! :upset: Claymore is more plot-driven and character-centric than those two. Ask to anyone here and they will say the same. There's no way they will follow classic shounen rules here.

How many episodes of Claymore did you saw? Clare IS the weakest of them all! That's why she is the number 47, as stated in episode 09. The reason because she is the weakest is - having Teresa's flesh and blood inside her instead a normal youma's flesh and blood - she is just 1/4 youma 3/4 human, and therefore has a very low youki level. Irene explained that in episode 13.

The reason because she became stronger is because she half-awaked. And because she promised to live to meet Raki someday in episode 12. Even Ophelia - who is very smart for a crazy woman :heh: - could say that. After that she met Irene, who teach her the light sword.

And don't forget she met Jean and Galatea because she was searching for Raki at that city and saw Jean's group there in episode 15. Thanks to that, she fought Duff and learned Galatea's technic and was influenced by Jean's strong will to control the light sword (episode 17).



No, there's no way she would become stronger without half-awake. Before meeting Raki, she was already a Claymore for quite a time. Elena stated that in episode 2. Yet she never became stronger than dead-last #47.

Maybe because of Raki she had many problems, but by fighting these many problems she became stronger and one step closer to her main objetive: Meet and fight Priscilla.

I've seen currently the 20th episode of Claymore and read the most recently translated chapter of the manga. As for plot and character, I would not say that Claymore is any more or less driven by those elements then any other show.

To say that Clare is weak would be insulting to say the least. If you have read the manga, Clare destroys Rigald when she almost fully awakens. Rigald is the former number two male Claymore, which says a great deal considering, during the conversation between Galatea and her keeper, they talked about the male Claymores and how they powerful they were.

It is possible to say that Clare is weak in her human state, but her power lies in her awakened form where she takes a much greater leap in power then most Claymores would as exampled by the thirty something Claymore that awoke during the Duff and Riful torture sequence with Jean watching.

Of course the flipside of that is that perhaps she awoke in that state because of Irene's arm or perhaps during an incomplete awakening sequence that a Claymore's awakened form changes. Who knows, but what we know is that Clare in her awakened form can match a powerful male Claymore.

I suppose you can say she is strong now because she has regained a greater scope of her human side because of Raki and through that she gained valuable allies and skills through those allies.

Who is to say that Clare we have seen that is smart enough to analyze and breakdown her abilities and skills to constantly improve herself would not have done the same if she never met Raki. Without really feeling emotional attachment to another living being, she could have gotten far stronger because she would not have to think out the situations she would be involved and the methods she would use because that emotional baggage is not there.

actually, about the bold part, she had always been reckless and slightly uncontrolable, due to the her relationship with Theresa. She took on herself the same traits, and even tried to gain the same abilities (obviously she had been honing the yoma reading skill alot, remember Miria's comment on it in the first AB fight?) Obviously they didn't just send those 4 to that AB b/c they messed up once...or there would be a shortage on claymores.lol They had a history of being problem children if you remember. Clare probably would have gotten to a similair strenght, but she wouldn't have copied Galatea's ability, would never have aquired the flash sword, and wouldn't have been thru as many hellish battles and survived without Raki. She has something to live for, so she must live, thats why she didn't awaken, cause Raki was indending to die with her when Galk was gonna slice her head off as she requested. Needing to survive to protect him made her more mentally strong, as well as lead her to copying/aquiring new skills and going thru those harder fights. Now sure, a few fights, she had to live to get her vengeance, its showing the split in her goals, so now she wants to do both, protect Raki, kill Priscilla, and live to be with him. IMO if she HAD fought pris w/o meeting raki, she'd prolly be reckless and end up sacrificing herself to kill her...and probably fail since her arsenal of attacks (and right arm) wouldn't be as advanced.

The need to protect someone I believe especially in what I envision as a sisterly/motherly relationship between Raki and Clare is strong. Raki helping Clare find herself again probably led Clare down the road of being half awoken which led to an increase in her combat abilities and also the long road which led her getting the technique Flash Sword from Irene as well as some body parts.

I believe the need to avenge especially someone who you saw as a savior, someone who was also going through what you were going through, a best friend, a motherly figure is equal if not greater then the strength that Clare gets because of Raki's influence.

Instead of being focused on a single goal, she now juggles two. Where as if she had one, which should have been to avenge Theresa in any way possible, you could have seen a cold, merciless Clare who was most likely at that point a sociopath who could have just as well been as strong as the Clare we know if not stronger because all this Clare would have is the singular desire, which is to kill Priscilla.

[Bonta Kun]

look look its Raki in some claymore attire:p altho only from shoulders up

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/1379/rakikd0.jpg

[PGilis]

To say that Clare is weak would be insulting to say the least. If you have read the manga, Clare destroys Rigald when she almost fully awakens. Rigald is the former number two male Claymore, which says a great deal considering, during the conversation between Galatea and her keeper, they talked about the male Claymores and how they powerful they were.

It is possible to say that Clare is weak in her human state, but her power lies in her awakened form where she takes a much greater leap in power then most Claymores would as exampled by the thirty something Claymore that awoke during the Duff and Riful torture sequence with Jean watching.

Of course the flipside of that is that perhaps she awoke in that state because of Irene's arm or perhaps during an incomplete awakening sequence that a Claymore's awakened form changes. Who knows, but what we know is that Clare in her awakened form can match a powerful male Claymore.

I suppose you can say she is strong now because she has regained a greater scope of her human side because of Raki and through that she gained valuable allies and skills through those allies.

Uuuuhhh... no big spoilers, please. :heh:

I'm not reading the manga right now. I don't want to spoil myself so i can enjoy the anime story more, without comparing with the manga. As soon the anime finish, i will read the manga. :)

But yes, when i said Clare is weak, i mean she was weak before semi-awaken herself. Just look how much trouble she had fighting Youmas... even being forced to use 10% or more of ther youma power plenty of times. I doubt Miria, Jean, Deneve or even Helen would have that much problem.

But after semi-awake she became stronger. Miria said she would not have much trouble dealing with Claymores up to second-half of the first-digits. And she became even stronger after being trained by Irene.

I believe she could be ranked at least #07 now (Miria is still stronger than her). But strangely enough, Clare never got another number except #47. I think the Organization is not interested in relocate her, but simply kill her as a troublemaker.



Who is to say that Clare we have seen that is smart enough to analyze and breakdown her abilities and skills to constantly improve herself would not have done the same if she never met Raki. Without really feeling emotional attachment to another living being, she could have gotten far stronger because she would not have to think out the situations she would be involved and the methods she would use because that emotional baggage is not there.

The need to protect someone I believe especially in what I envision as a sisterly/motherly relationship between Raki and Clare is strong. Raki helping Clare find herself again probably led Clare down the road of being half awoken which led to an increase in her combat abilities and also the long road which led her getting the technique Flash Sword from Irene as well as some body parts.

I believe the need to avenge especially someone who you saw as a savior, someone who was also going through what you were going through, a best friend, a motherly figure is equal if not greater then the strength that Clare gets because of Raki's influence.

Instead of being focused on a single goal, she now juggles two. Where as if she had one, which should have been to avenge Theresa in any way possible, you could have seen a cold, merciless Clare who was most likely at that point a sociopath who could have just as well been as strong as the Clare we know if not stronger because all this Clare would have is the singular desire, which is to kill Priscilla.

She is fighting for two main objetives, that's true. The desire of avenge Teresa - killing Priscilla - gave her a reason to fight. But the desire of meet again Raki gave her a reason to live. That's the difference.

In Rurouni Kenshin - Shishio's arc, i believe - Kenshin's master/stepfather was teaching him something important. If he fights someone, he can't fight with the will of die, but with the will of live. Why? Because he will give his everything in order to defeat the enemy and stills live after that. There's someone waiting for him, so he can't fail. He absolutely can't die. HE NEEDS TO LIVE.

If he fight just thinking in die for that objetive, he already accepted the own death and can even fail because he never gave his everything.

Clare is the same. She's fighting too many powerful enemies. Is honor and reveange reason enough to win against them? Ophelia though not. :p

So she needs some more incentive. That's why Raki is here... giving her a reason to live. A reason to fight and win and live, no matter what. :)

[Reppa]

I've seen currently the 20th episode of Claymore and read the most recently translated chapter of the manga. As for plot and character, I would not say that Claymore is any more or less driven by those elements then any other show.

To say that Clare is weak would be insulting to say the least. If you have read the manga, Clare destroys Rigald when she almost fully awakens. Rigald is the former number two male Claymore, which says a great deal considering, during the conversation between Galatea and her keeper, they talked about the male Claymores and how they powerful they were.

It is possible to say that Clare is weak in her human state, but her power lies in her awakened form where she takes a much greater leap in power then most Claymores would as exampled by the thirty something Claymore that awoke during the Duff and Riful torture sequence with Jean watching.

Of course the flipside of that is that perhaps she awoke in that state because of Irene's arm or perhaps during an incomplete awakening sequence that a Claymore's awakened form changes. Who knows, but what we know is that Clare in her awakened form can match a powerful male Claymore.

Isn't that kind of like saying she is only strong when she maxing herself out. Or better yet its like saying she is only strong when she she has awakened apart of herself. Meaning she went from having a toy pop gun(normal) to a WWII M-24 Tank(Awaken). If thats is the case then she is week just because she has to go over her limit to take on anything.

I suppose you can say she is strong now because she has regained a greater scope of her human side because of Raki and through that she gained valuable allies and skills through those allies.

Who is to say that Clare we have seen that is smart enough to analyze and breakdown her abilities and skills to constantly improve herself would not have done the same if she never met Raki. Without really feeling emotional attachment to another living being, she could have gotten far stronger because she would not have to think out the situations she would be involved and the methods she would use because that emotional baggage is not there.

As things currently stand Raki has a better chance accomplishing Clare's goals. The only thing Clare has proven is that she is focuses only on ether killing Priscilla to avenge Teresa or being killed by Priscilla and joining Teresa. In that case she is a week character mentally and physically, because she can't even get to Priscilla's level without awakening. Reason why Raki is a better character than Clare.


The need to protect someone I believe especially in what I envision as a sisterly/motherly relationship between Raki and Clare is strong. Raki helping Clare find herself again probably led Clare down the road of being half awoken which led to an increase in her combat abilities and also the long road which led her getting the technique Flash Sword from Irene as well as some body parts.

Getting Irene's Flash sword was like taking steroids. As well as an act of pity from Irena. Irene came out and said she will never be anything close to her and this is proven in time and time again when Clare has to awaken just to keep up.


I believe the need to avenge especially someone who you saw as a savior, someone who was also going through what you were going through, a best friend, a motherly figure is equal if not greater then the strength that Clare gets because of Raki's influence.

Raki was never in the same position as Clare once was. Clare never rejected Raki at any point.
The kid has got to be packing. There are too many small moment that they hint at Raki being hung like a horse. Helen caught it and called it out, Priscilla smelled in on him like a blood hound. Reason why she instantly jumped in bed with Raki, then sleep walked over to him. Barry White said it best she couldn't get enough of Raki. :D

Instead of being focused on a single goal, she now juggles two. Where as if she had one, which should have been to avenge Theresa in any way possible, you could have seen a cold, merciless Clare who was most likely at that point a sociopath who could have just as well been as strong as the Clare we know if not stronger because all this Clare would have is the singular desire, which is to kill Priscilla.

Once again the story hints harder that Raki will end up getting revenge for Clare before she gets it herself. But its always nice to keep an open idea.

[Aeshma]

look look its Raki in some claymore attire:p altho only from shoulders up

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/1379/rakikd0.jpg


Manga volume 25 spoilers itt

[hamstar]

hmmmm i dont think guys would wear the same attire as female claymores.

reason being that if they did they're penises would be exposed because they are only wearing tights.

[Tempest35]

hmmmm i dont think guys would wear the same attire as female claymores.

reason being that if they did they're penises would be exposed because they are only wearing tights.

Talk about a 'thread killer'...:heh: :heh: :heh:

He has more chance of becoming the next male to go Claymore in the manga. In the anime, he just better hope that Priscilla doesn't do 'Fourth Meal'. :D

[Reppa]

Talk about a 'thread killer'...:heh: :heh: :heh:

He has more chance of becoming the next male to go Claymore in the manga. In the anime, he just better hope that Priscilla doesn't do 'Fourth Meal'. :D

I keep hoping they will do something with with Raki. Other than Play him like nintendo. They anime dose him worse than I like to admit. The only glimmer of hope he has left is that he is the only character in the series that has a chance at killing Priscilla.

[Prongs]

To convert him to became maleclay is not that easy as Abacadabra. Its simple to leave him as Beserk and bloodlust Human.

[Anh_Minh]

They'd both be pretty lame. What would justify that he, of all people, wouldn't awaken when everyone else has? What would justify that he, of all people, has superhuman abilities without merging with a yoma? (And make no mistake. The ability to go toe to toe with even a canon fodder yoma would make him superhuman. Remember how those church soldiers fared?)

That kind of "exception" would make him the main character of a series like Bleach. I hope it doesn't happen.

[meh]

Raki to me has always been an annoyance rather than anything else. Mainly because he keeps talking about "protecting Clare", but doesn't do anything to accomplish that goal. Granted, it's what you'd expect out of a male protaganist in a shonen manga(willpower + love > all). But that doesn't make it any less annoying.

A normal, logical person in Raki's shoes would find out exactly how to be strong enough to protect a Claymore. And then try to secure that power. In Raki's case, perhaps try to find and cut a deal with the organization? Or he could try to study some "ancient" text and find other meansof power up. I'd have been cool with something like that. But instead, Raki just keep on swinging his sword, which is the dumbest way to securing power equaling or surpassing that of a claymore. It's like trying to work on your slingshot skills when you're up against armored tanks. Makes no sense what so ever.

Raki has potential. He just needs to mature and be bold. Because he certainly has no chance to protect Clare taking baby steps like learning to use the sword.

[emu777]

Maybe if the anime goes into a second season(hopefully:)) we will see Isley finding a way to boost raki's power as a means to keep priscilla in check. After all now that raki knows priscilla's secret it will be easier to sell him that idea.

Isley: Raki I have a great way to help you get stronger;)
Raki: Gee, I dont know Isley:(
Isley::thinker:.....it will help you protect that claymore friend of yours
Raki: :eek: WHERE DO I SIGN!!!!!!
Isley::naughty:

Something around those lines:D

[Hikikomori Ja nai]

You need to see Raki for what he is, which is basically a Ant in a Land of Giants.

He is a normal human in a land of powerful creatures that he has no chance of either beating or defending himself against. Howevere he is a percocious ant who talks above his head for the sake of wanting to be important to someone he cares for.

I think Raki fits in more when he has clare to sort of contrast his personality with. Clare the apatheic claymore and Raki the endaring Human... works alot better than Raki the roaming warrior/food.....

[PGilis]

They'd both be pretty lame. What would justify that he, of all people, wouldn't awaken when everyone else has? What would justify that he, of all people, has superhuman abilities without merging with a yoma? (And make no mistake. The ability to go toe to toe with even a canon fodder yoma would make him superhuman. Remember how those church soldiers fared?)

That kind of "exception" would make him the main character of a series like Bleach. I hope it doesn't happen.

Actually, there's a way... :innocent:

Male Claymores awaked in no time because they couldn't resist the pleasure and excitation the 'awaking' process brings, right? And 'Awaking' brings both, pain and pleasure, right? :p

So, the only way to Raki become a Claymore and not 'awake' is his girlfriend keep him sexually "fullfilled"! :o That way he will not need to awake or will be too tired for that!! :heh:

And all we know Clare and her infamous 'prostitute smile' is the right girl for this misson!! :naughty:

[Anh_Minh]

All Miria said was that Awakening was "like" sexual pleasure. She didn't say it was related to it.

[Prongs]

Actually, there's a way... :innocent:

Male Claymores awaked in no time because they couldn't resist the pleasure and excitation the 'awaking' process brings, right? And 'Awaking' brings both, pain and pleasure, right? :p

So, the only way to Raki become a Claymore and not 'awake' is his girlfriend keep him sexually "fullfilled"! :o That way he will not need to awake or will be too tired for that!! :heh:

And all we know Clare and her infamous 'prostitute smile' is the right girl for this misson!! :naughty:

Yay I Love this Scenario. But how then if Clare bear Raki baby(pregnant)? oops I don't wanna the stories going to that way either :innocent:

They'd both be pretty lame. What would justify that he, of all people, wouldn't awaken when everyone else has? What would justify that he, of all people, has superhuman abilities without merging with a yoma? (And make no mistake. The ability to go toe to toe with even a canon fodder yoma would make him superhuman. Remember how those church soldiers fared?)

But the truth is out there. dunno maybe he became a Kungfu master? but what Isley do when he test Raki is something hint to an enchanced Raki. just wait and see.

Yagi sama! give me some romance plssss :kisskiss::love:

[PGilis]

Yay I Love this Scenario. But how then if Clare bear Raki baby(pregnant)? oops I don't wanna the stories going to that way either :innocent:




If Clare is not in conditions to the task of helping Raki not to "awake", then Helen can be his second! And Deneve as third, and Miria as fourth.

The Fab-four can become Raki's newest Harem!! :naughty: :love:

But doing that, Clare will become jealous and have a monstruous thristy for blood... :heh:

[Prongs]

an another Claymore Hina series hehehehe

[Chudley]

Actually, there's a way... :innocent:

Male Claymores awaked in no time because they couldn't resist the pleasure and excitation the 'awaking' process brings, right? And 'Awaking' brings both, pain and pleasure, right? :p

So, the only way to Raki become a Claymore and not 'awake' is his girlfriend keep him sexually "fullfilled"! :o That way he will not need to awake or will be too tired for that!! :heh:

And all we know Clare and her infamous 'prostitute smile' is the right girl for this misson!! :naughty:

Roflcopter that'll be so awesome. I'll gladly trade places with Raki if that happens :D

[emu777]

If Clare is not in conditions to the task of helping Raki not to "awake", then Helen can be his second! And Deneve as third, and Miria as fourth.

The Fab-four can become Raki's newest Harem!! :naughty: :love:

But doing that, Clare will become jealous and have a monstruous thristy for blood... :heh:

MY god that would be killer, but then all the raki haters would band together to hunt down the animation team:heh:. But on the funny side, if it were true it would make the hotsprings episode that much funnier with the fab 7 all trying to get a piece of raki action all at once:naughty:

[PGilis]

an another Claymore Hina series hehehehe

Thinking well, maybe a good parody to Claymore would be somewhat based in Tenchi Muyo! :eyespin: Just think the possibilities...

A new harem show is coming...

HAKI MUYO -- NO NEED FOR RAKI!!

Featuring:

Haki -- as the loser useless Tenchi
Priscilla -- as the Devil Princess, pirate Ryoko
Clare -- as the arrogant and mortal enemy of Ryoko, princess Aeka
Helen -- as the stupid troublemaker Mihoshi
Deneve -- as the out-of-luck partner of Helen, Kiyone
Miria -- as the big genius Washu
Jean -- as Clare's pet, Ryo-Ohki
Flora -- as the childish princess Sasami

:D :D :D

[Hikikomori Ja nai]

Thinking well, maybe a good parody to Claymore would be somewhat based in Tenchi Muyo! :eyespin: Just think the possibilities...

A new harem show is coming...

HAKI MUYO -- NO NEED FOR RAKI!!

Featuring:

Haki -- as the loser useless Tenchi
Priscilla -- as the Devil Princess, pirate Ryoko
Clare -- as the arrogant and mortal enemy of Ryoko, princess Aeka
Helen -- as the stupid troublemaker Mihoshi
Deneve -- as the out-of-luck partner of Helen, Kiyone
Miria -- as the big genius Washu
Jean -- as Clare's pet, Ryo-Ohki
Flora -- as the childish princess Sasami

:D :D :D

I think maybe you have put to much thought into this :eyebrow:.... on the other hand maybe I haven't thought enough...hmmmm :confused:

What about a Claymore H-game?
you have to some how talk Clare and Priscilla into a threesome.... by no means limited to a threesome of course..... although claymores like Miria aren't very receptive to such talk and are quick to swing swords if you catch my drift......:uhoh:

[Hypervalor]

I think far in the episodes, Easley will use Raki as a hostage and his blood inside of Raki. Then Easley force Raki to become an awaken being. So Clare in the end need to kill him :(

[Prongs]

What noooooooooo

Raki is for Clare. the one only!

[Hypervalor]

lol, I'm sure Helen won't stop thinking Clare is doing something with Raki.

What happen if Raki become half yoma half human?

[PGilis]

lol, I'm sure Helen won't stop thinking Clare is doing something with Raki.

What happen if Raki become half yoma half human?

That was already discussed a lot. :p

Watch again episode 10. If Raki become a Claymore - that is, a half-youma half-human - he would 'awake' very fast. All the male Claymores created by the Organization became A.O.s in a very short time, because the males couldn't resist the excitation created by the impulse of Awaking, what has a very strong impulse, almost sexual.

In short, all the male Claymores masturbates until become A.O.s. :heh:

And i doubt Raki would be different... unless, like i said some posts before, Clare gives to him all the 'sexual excitement' he needs. :naughty:

[Icephere]

Actually, there's a way... :innocent:

Male Claymores awaked in no time because they couldn't resist the pleasure and excitation the 'awaking' process brings, right? And 'Awaking' brings both, pain and pleasure, right? :p

So, the only way to Raki become a Claymore and not 'awake' is his girlfriend keep him sexually "fullfilled"! :o That way he will not need to awake or will be too tired for that!! :heh:

And all we know Clare and her infamous 'prostitute smile' is the right girl for this misson!! :naughty:

Hmm, if that were really to happen, claymore might turn into an H-game xD!
Plus, won't sexual stimulation while being a claymore might awaken you as well >_>?

[PGilis]

I don't think so.

If i remember well, it's all a question of going over the limits.

Males are naturally more thristy for power and suscetible to sexual excitement than females. And using youma power brings both plain and pleasure to the user. So the male Claymores couldn't resist the urge of using more and more of their powers until they start to awaken. That happened with many female claymores too.

But, if they don't use their powers, they will be okay. So nothing wrong in having normal sexual stimulation. The problem is, with who? :heh: The males were created first. The females, after all of them failed. And no human want to get close to a half-youma. And i would not be surprise if the Organization gave an order to Claymores never get too close of humans.

[RoryTate]

My opinion on Raki is understood within the context of humanity's reactions to Claymores.

Most humans see Claymores as something to be feared. Claymores are "silver-eyed witches" and/or harbingers of bad luck/death. The only manner in which humanity is sometimes forced to accept their presence is within a very cold and strict business relationship. You might compare Claymores to lawyers within our society...someone that no one wants to have to deal with, but a necessary evil at times. Ha! I bet not even the mangaka has thought of that analogy...Claymores = lawyers. :D

The organization (run by humans it appears...although they are distinctly different in appearance from most humans) sees Claymores as their property, to be used as tools in their business dealings, and as pawns whenever the need arises. There is no "parental concern" (as noted by Galatea), and the only real recognition given that Claymores might still have human feelings is the fact that the organization quickly removes troublemakers and dissension within the Claymore ranks.

Raki is the sole human that actually has a human relationship with Claymores. They are his companions, friends, and he even cares very strongly for Clare (whether this is an elder sister or lover relationship is an interesting question within the storyline). The reader/viewer should identify very strongly with Raki in this respect, and believe that if they were within the Claymore world, they too would accept and treat Claymores as humans just like he does.

[PGilis]

Actually, there was anothers. :p

Clare when a child was the first human to treat a Claymore - Teresa - with respect and care. And thanks to that, those villagers in that city where they both went at episode 7~8 thank Teresa for help them, too.

But unfortunately, i think they would never trust in a Claymore again, because not much after, the hunt group of #02~05 Claymores atacked Teresa there, too.

[Tempest35]

Ramble ahead. Rage against the Raki Hate Machine. :D

If I was in that sort of world, honestly, I probably would be wary of Claymores, but not to the extent that most people seem to be.

"Oh! But they're half-human, half-youma! They're just as bad as youma!"

Excuse me while I whack some sense into the idiot who came up with that one. Scratch that, I'll just whack them - forget common sense. I'm with Raki on that one - sure he might be a little slower in the head, but his heart is in the right place and I can't argue with a guy if he believes in something that strongly. He's weak and so are we by virtue of us being merely human, but he's trying his best.

Sure, people 'hate' him because he didn't try to be a man and kill Priscilla outright. That he let emotions affect his judgement in letting a monster off the hook that easily. That may be true but he's trying to help her. In truth, if Raki can somehow manage to pull it off with Priscilla, that would be far more impressive that Clare killing her.

[Anh_Minh]

He may be the only permanent boytoy around, but you get people who treat Claymores like humans from time to time. The Rabona people, for example, were suitably grateful, and the knife thrower treated Clare like very much of a human being of the female persuasion.

[Chudley]

He may be the only permanent boytoy around, but you get people who treat Claymores like humans from time to time. The Rabona people, for example, were suitably grateful, and the knife thrower treated Clare like very much of a human being of the female persuasion.

These people belong to a minority group i believe. And it doesnt change the fact that Raki is one of the most admirable characters in Claymore. The Rabona people and the knife thrower were pretty much receptive to Teresa/Clare respectively out of gratitude. Raki's the only human being who dared to approach a Claymore and strike up a conversation.

[Anh_Minh]

They're a minority, yes. I was just disputing the term "sole".

[Twisted Reality]

lol, I'm sure Helen won't stop thinking Clare is doing something with Raki.
Look, it's hard to fit into the Claymore club without having some sort of depraved characteristic to make you seem off-kilter to the mindless herds of humanity. If anything, Clare should keep Raki around as a boy-toy or a sex slave.

Why not? Undine is on performing enhancing drugs. Ophelia likes the taste of blood. Why not the inclusion of a sex-crazed nympho?

Now that would be hot. . .
Mmmmm. . . porno. . .*Homer Simpson Drool*

[Twisted Reality]

These people belong to a minority group i believe. And it doesnt change the fact that Raki is one of the most admirable characters in Claymore. The Rabona people and the knife thrower were pretty much receptive to Teresa/Clare respectively out of gratitude. Raki's the only human being who dared to approach a Claymore and strike up a conversation.
Raki is a pretty flat character with unvarying motivation. In spite of popular belief, virtue and compassion are in no particular shortage when it comes to anime. They're obligated to exist, because without them, the popular audience would be alienated from the story. Having admirable characteristics, does not, a complex and well-rounded character make.

It is to my mind that Raki is little more than a plot-device to try and humanize the Claymores and AB's, more specifically, Clare and Priscilla. Raki is a tiny satellite around these heart-rending stories about humanity buried under the flesh of monsters. In other words, Raki is pretty much obligated to exist in Claymore, because all shounen anime are required by Japanese law to contain at least one character of pure and unadulterated idealism. A token character the audience can relate to basically.

Note that, if we were to dispense with Raki, the core story would simply be conveyed by other means. Since Claymore, is indeed, simply a story about humanity twisted into monstrous shapes and driven to morally questionable acts, blah, blah blah. Clare would still get her growth and blooming humanity by her socialization with other Claymores or with other equally disposable pieces of livestock. . .umm. . . humans. Priscilla will still be a weepy little AB with a child-like mentality and weepiness, taken-in by Isley's lordly protection.

Now, I don't particularly hate Raki, as that would be giving him more credit than a character of his caliber deserves. He's pretty much beneath my attention. I'm just saying he's equally interchangeable with any other piece of cardboard.

Now, you can love Raki all you like. I respect that. I don't question the kind of tacky, ideal love that people throw onto their household pets. . .no matter how obnoxious their affections or the pet gets. Even though that people lovingly project their weepy and heart-breaking idealized affections onto blank-slates and go out of their way to attribute noble characteristics in slavish loyalty, it is ultimately, no great sin.

Just make sure to neuter your Raki and give him daily walks. Rakis are a big responsibility.

[RoryTate]

I guess I should further explain my opinion that Raki occupies a singular position as a human within the Claymore world.

Some exceptions have been offered in the thread: the village that was attacked by bandits and young Clare were noted. However, from my viewpoint these examples only serve to reinforce the stereotype that "it is bad luck to associate with Claymores". Certainly Theresa herself warned Clare that "her world" was not fit for a child, and in the end Theresa was right...Clare ended up in many dangerous situations as a result, and finally became a Claymore (which would be all the proof needed for many humans of Clare's final "fall from grace").

The people of Rabona (Galk, etc) were also mentioned as exceptions. It is true that they did grow somewhat in their acceptance of Claymores. However, this interaction remains a cold and impersonal "business relationship", IMO. From what I saw/read, none of them will be working any time soon to change Rabona's policy of not allowing Claymores inside the city. In fact, Galk and the others probably still believe that Rabona is safer because of this practice (compare this to our world and many people's inherent belief that the presence of minorities causes more crime and deaths within their city).

Perhaps the best way to explain how Raki is different would be through a quick thought experiment. Were Raki to live in Rabona, I can see him actively working to change the practice of excluding Claymores, and to let everyone know that Claymores are like war veterans surrounded by a world of fighting and killing. They are the only ones willing to do an unpleasant job, and in turn they are ostracized for it. At the least, Raki would want to interact with Clare and other Claymores again, even if it was just to talk and see how they are doing. I can't see Galk or the others inviting Clare back just to "reminisce over old times" (as I said, theirs is a "business relationship"). Galk and the others likely still believe that they are safer not keeping company with a Claymore, without looking deeper and trying to understand the reasons behind this stereotype.

Raki is singular in the human world in that he has benefited both physically and emotionally from his association with Claymores, and he wants further interaction with them as a result. For Raki to die or truly suffer would be a very nihilistic and depressing message to come out of Claymore, IMO. It would say "don't try to fight against injustice, and always tow society's line, or you will suffer as a result".

Note: I'm not saying that the author wrote Claymore from the perspective of "disenfranchised minorities", or that this is the only way to interpret the work, but I recognize and understand this as a strong theme within the story. It is similar to Tolkien and some popular interpretations of "The Lord of the Rings"...while aspects of environmentalism can be seen within the story, Tolkien himself was very derisive of it being written as an "environmental allegory" (or allegory of any type for that matter), and rightfully so.

We have to relate to the story, and it has to relate to our world in some way, for it to be meaningful. However, turning around and saying that every story is required to have a character like this, and using it as an excuse to hate that character, is ludicrous. It is a tautology that a good story is meaningful to its readers, and that its characters can be related to, so such an argument is worthless in any manner except as a diatribe against storytelling in general.

[Anh_Minh]

I guess I should further explain my opinion that Raki occupies a singular position as a human within the Claymore world.

Some exceptions have been offered in the thread: the village that was attacked by bandits and young Clare were noted. However, from my viewpoint these examples only serve to reinforce the stereotype that "it is bad luck to associate with Claymores". Certainly Theresa herself warned Clare that "her world" was not fit for a child, and in the end Theresa was right...Clare ended up in many dangerous situations as a result, and finally became a Claymore (which would be all the proof needed for many humans of Clare's final "fall from grace").

The people of Rabona (Galk, etc) were also mentioned as exceptions. It is true that they did grow somewhat in their acceptance of Claymores. However, this interaction remains a cold and impersonal "business relationship", IMO. From what I saw/read, none of them will be working any time soon to change Rabona's policy of not allowing Claymores inside the city. In fact, Galk and the others probably still believe that Rabona is safer because of this practice (compare this to our world and many people's inherent belief that the presence of minorities causes more crime and deaths within their city).

I disagree. If Clare was to sneak into Rabona, Galk and the others would have no trouble helping her hide and sharing drinks with her. They are her friends.

The reason they won't work toward Claymore acceptance is that there'd be no point to it. Look at the costs:
- it'd be a lot of work to convince a whole Holy City to change its own religious views. Try going to the Vatican and explain to them that out of wedlock sex is really great and that we should all practice it. See how that works for you.
- it'd undermine the authority of the Church. Meaning, theirs. They'd be shooting their own feet.

On the other hand, look at the benefits: none. The Claymores are not a minority stuck in a ghetto of Rabona. They don't want to go there. Rabona's stance makes missions there harder, so maybe they've got to pay extra. So what? They're a big, rich city. They can afford it a lot more easily than small villages can afford the usual single youma extermination. And it's not like Rabona's a youma gathering place.


Raki's more sensitive to ill-treatments of Clare, that's true. "Don't touch Clare!" "Don't make fun of Clare!". All it shows is that he's a kid. Childish outrage. Childish courage. He's certainly no political militant.



Perhaps the best way to explain how Raki is different would be through a quick thought experiment. Were Raki to live in Rabona, I can see him actively working to change the practice of excluding Claymores, and to let everyone know that Claymores are like war veterans surrounded by a world of fighting and killing. They are the only ones willing to do an unpleasant job, and in turn they are ostracized for it. At the least, Raki would want to interact with Clare and other Claymores again, even if it was just to talk and see how they are doing. I can't see Galk or the others inviting Clare back just to "reminisce over old times" (as I said, theirs is a "business relationship"). Galk and the others likely still believe that they are safer not keeping company with a Claymore, without looking deeper and trying to understand the reasons behind this stereotype.Raki's smarter than that. He'd just leave Rabona.

Raki is singular in the human world in that he has benefited both physically and emotionally from his association with Claymores, and he wants further interaction with them as a result.Raki's latched on Clare. While he probably sees all Claymore as "people", I seriously doubt he has any particular feelings for them. In fact, I don't remember him getting along with any of them but Clare. And, while they may be somewhat of a minority, there's no real shortage of people ready to treat Claymores as human beings. Just, human beings that are distant, and aren't interested in settling down or even in visiting regularly.


For Raki to die or truly suffer would be a very nihilistic and depressing message to come out of Claymore, IMO. It would say "don't try to fight against injustice, and always tow society's line, or you will suffer as a result".Not any more than Jean's potential death meant you shouldn't be honorable, or Theresa's death that you shouldn't love.

Note: I'm not saying that the author wrote Claymore from the perspective of "disenfranchised minorities", or that this is the only way to interpret the work, but I recognize and understand this as a strong theme within the story. It is similar to Tolkien and some popular interpretations of "The Lord of the Rings"...while aspects of environmentalism can be seen within the story, Tolkien himself was very derisive of it being written as an "environmental allegory" (or allegory of any type for that matter), and rightfully so.

We have to relate to the story, and it has to relate to our world in some way, for it to be meaningful. However, turning around and saying that every story is required to have a character like this, and using it as an excuse to hate that character, is ludicrous. It is a tautology that a good story is meaningful to its readers, and that its characters can be related to, so such an argument is worthless in any manner except as a diatribe against storytelling in general.Yes and no. While there are common elements, Claymores aren't really a minority the way we usually mean the word. For one thing, there aren't enough of them. For another, their way of life is just too independent of the rest of humanity. To them, normal human are little more than elements of the background. Like fauna. Or rocks. Third points: people seldom pick fights with Claymores, and they never win them.

[RoryTate]

I disagree. If Clare was to sneak into Rabona, Galk and the others would have no trouble helping her hide and sharing drinks with her. They are her friends.

I agree with your scenario...they would do as you say. However, this doesn't meet the level of friendship I was referencing. There is a difference between your scenario and actively inviting Clare back. My scenario requires that they really want to catch up, or they miss having her around. Raki would do this, whereas Galk et al would not.

Raki's more sensitive to ill-treatments of Clare, that's true. "Don't touch Clare!" "Don't make fun of Clare!". All it shows is that he's a kid. Childish outrage. Childish courage. He's certainly no political militant.

Good point! Children are more apt to question the world because they haven't yet been indoctrinated into its prejudices. However, because young girls and boys aren't aware of politics yet, their opinions may actually have more merit than most. Ignorance and innocence may go hand in hand, but a child's innocence when confronted with racism, hatred, etc, are worthy in teaching us more about the reasons for our own adult(?) reactions.

Raki's smarter than that. He'd just leave Rabona.

Yes, that is certainly the more reasonable choice, and Raki would do well to consider it. However...

"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw

Not any more than Jean's potential death meant you shouldn't be honorable, or Theresa's death that you shouldn't love.

I disagree very strongly here. Clare has had great difficulty in dealing with Theresa's death, although Irene did a good job in explaining the belief that a happier, caring Theresa who lived a shorter life, was preferable to an aloof, unhappy Theresa who may have survived for a longer time. Although who can say? Maybe if Clare didn't meet her, Theresa could have become happy through some other means, and still remain alive? This is a complex value judgment, full of uncertainties and unknown causalities. While I generally side with Irene on this, I still think it is a difficult question, and people will have many different opinions on it.

However, should Raki die then I think Clare would have to seriously ask the question of whether Claymores have any right to interact with humans on a personal level...to be "human" at all. Theresa's story highlights the fact that you can't be a human in a vacuum. Yet, if a pattern of misery and death is what always results from such interactions, then Clare and all Claymores should definitely avoid humans, for the benefit of both groups. Raki's death or suffering would immediately establish this pattern, and I don't believe anyone half-way rational within the story could argue otherwise...hence my use of the word "nihilistic".

The fate of Jeane does not apply here, because she is a Claymore, and there is no suggestion within the story that Claymores cannot interact deeply within their own kind, forming friendships, acting honourably, and the like. However, there is a strong, underlying question in the tale of whether Claymores and humans can live together...that is the conflict brought to the fore by Raki's character. And the decision about it still lies in the balance of his life.

[Anh_Minh]

I agree with your scenario...they would do as you say. However, this doesn't meet the level of friendship I was referencing. There is a difference between your scenario and actively inviting Clare back. My scenario requires that they really want to catch up, or they miss having her around. Raki would do this, whereas Galk et al would not.
They had their own lives, whereas Raki didn't. It's true that Raki made Clare his world while they didn't. But it's not some kind of special virtue of his, seeing Clare as more human than they do. It's just a child's neediness that may have grown into some kind of unhealthy obsession.


Good point! Children are more apt to question the world because they haven't yet been indoctrinated into its prejudices.
They also have a very erratic grasp on what's important or not, and on the cost of things.

However, because young girls and boys aren't aware of politics yet, their opinions may actually have more merit than most. Ignorance and innocence may go hand in hand, but a child's innocence when confronted with racism, hatred, etc, are worthy in teaching us more about the reasons for our own adult(?) reactions.
That's what they say in Saturday morning cartoons. Which just goes to show that you shouldn't believe cartoons. An uninformed opinion based on emotion and ignorance does not trump one based on knowledge, experience, and reason.

Now, there are plenty of uninformed opinions among adults, that's true. So, yeah, sometimes adults are every bit as stupid as children. But an opinion doesn't become more valuable just because an ignorant kid formulated it.



Yes, that is certainly the more reasonable choice, and Raki would do well to consider it. However...


If Raki wants to make himself useful, he'd better research ways for humans to identify and fight youmas. Enabling Claymores to visit Rabona would be a pretty hollow accomplishment - not that I think he could do it. Claymores don't want to go there in the first place, and if they wanted to, they'd just sneak in. Political protest would be a waste of time.


I disagree very strongly here. Clare has had great difficulty in dealing with Theresa's death, although Irene did a good job in explaining the belief that a happier, caring Theresa who lived a shorter life, was preferable to an aloof, unhappy Theresa who may have survived for a longer time. Although who can say? Maybe if Clare didn't meet her, Theresa could have become happy through some other means, and still remain alive? This is a complex value judgment, full of uncertainties and unknown causalities. While I generally side with Irene on this, I still think it is a difficult question, and people will have many different opinions on it.

However, should Raki die then I think Clare would have to seriously ask the question of whether Claymores have any right to interact with humans on a personal level...to be "human" at all. Theresa's story highlights the fact that you can't be a human in a vacuum. Yet, if a pattern of misery and death is what always results from such interactions, then Clare and all Claymores should definitely avoid humans, for the benefit of both groups. Raki's death or suffering would immediately establish this pattern, and I don't believe anyone half-way rational within the story could argue otherwise...hence my use of the word "nihilistic".

The fate of Jeane does not apply here, because she is a Claymore, and there is no suggestion within the story that Claymores cannot interact deeply within their own kind, forming friendships, acting honourably, and the like. However, there is a strong, underlying question in the tale of whether Claymores and humans can live together...that is the conflict brought to the fore by Raki's character. And the decision about it still lies in the balance of his life.

My point was, one or two people aren't a pattern. You can't condemn the whole Claymore-human interaction just because it ends badly twice. Especially considering Clare's special circumstances.

But really, she should have made him stay in Rabona, just as Theresa made Clare stay in that ill-fated village. Think about it - they're always on the move, from one youma infested place to another. So... at best, a few years down the line, Clare is killed so she won't awaken. Raki is stranded in some place where he's a complete stranger. At worst, Clare is killed, and Raki is stranded some place with a youma in it. Or, heck, he's killed by the same critter that got Clare, as the only one daft enough to stay close to the fight, and maybe interfere if it goes wrong.

It'd be very nice if Claymores and humans could have a better relationship. But Raki-Clare is no example to follow in any case.

[Matrim]

It is to my mind that Raki is little more than a plot-device to try and humanize the Claymores and AB's, more specifically, Clare and Priscilla. Raki is a tiny satellite around these heart-rending stories about humanity buried under the flesh of monsters. In other words, Raki is pretty much obligated to exist in Claymore, because all shounen anime are required by Japanese law to contain at least one character of pure and unadulterated idealism. A token character the audience can relate to basically.

Note that, if we were to dispense with Raki, the core story would simply be conveyed by other means. Since Claymore, is indeed, simply a story about humanity twisted into monstrous shapes and driven to morally questionable acts, blah, blah blah. Clare would still get her growth and blooming humanity by her socialization with other Claymores or with other equally disposable pieces of livestock. . .umm. . . humans. Priscilla will still be a weepy little AB with a child-like mentality and weepiness, taken-in by Isley's lordly protection.

Now, I don't particularly hate Raki, as that would be giving him more credit than a character of his caliber deserves. He's pretty much beneath my attention. I'm just saying he's equally interchangeable with any other piece of cardboard.Finally someone who shares my view of Raki or should I say Mr "Plot Device"?

For Raki to die or truly suffer would be a very nihilistic and depressing message to come out of Claymore, IMO. It would say "don't try to fight against injustice, and always tow society's line, or you will suffer as a result".No, it would say "When you put yourself in an extremely dangerous situation and yet insist of behaving like a suicidal moron, you die". Not very cheerful but still not too bad, IMO. :) Anyway, I'd have a depressing and nihilistic message any day over "Good intentions and pure heart must prevail against anything and everything because the scriptwriters say so" but mabe that's just me.

[Sci-Fi]

You see nits of "human traits" all through Claymore. Clare commenting that she decided to try to use her human will to control Ilena's arm for instance. Raki just brings it all out at once...lol...he's supposed to be the frail and helpless one and by appealing to the "human side", he might be able to bring a few back or least show human values and beliefs can be just as strong.

As far as Rabona, the laws can be changed. Just about all the priests and the bishop himself understood they would have been wiped out without Clare's help. The problem is that they couldn't tell the population about it...at least not yet. It would be a convenient place for Claymores, if they left "en mass" from the Org to start a competing business to kill yomas. Just operate in teams so nobody gets overwhelmed or outclassed if the intel is wrong.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

I would like more shows about Raki but as it stands right now, he is worthless. He doesn't even have much of a role in Claire's world. Claire gets stronger without Raki. So what's the point of having Raki around anyway.

Anyway, I'm hoping the anime turns around and show more of Raki. Hey, maybe it will be like twelve kingdoms anime. Maybe we first get to see how useless he is and how much we hate him then it turns around in some episode or something.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Maybe we first get to see how useless he is and how much we hate him then it turns around in some episode or something.

Maybe thats the path the manga will take, he hasn't been seen for a while, so it is a possiblity, however the path the anime is taking maybe different. Considering there are 5 episodes left, I don't think they could do much with him to make him stronger. Unless they leave it for a season two, "loosely" based on the manga.

I don't mind Raki, I think he does have his place, he does humanise elements of the story to help draw people into the world as someone said, but all in all I think he is OK, just his whiny voice gets annoying. He is just a naive, lost little boy, trying to find a foot-hold in a world going to the dogs, and in Clare he see a rock to hold onto. In the end he most likely just wants a place to live in peace with someone he can care for, isn't that what we all really want out of life ;). I do hope he may be in for some reality checks, questions or decisions in the near future which will force him to face up to 'real life' as it is and may draw out something deeper in his character.

[Hikikomori Ja nai]

I believe Raki is indeed brave and strong, even more than the little credit people give him. I don't think he got enough credit for trying to protect Clare against Ophelia. Then fight Ophelia for about 5 minutes and swing a sword and hit a AB in a nose. That episode to me showed volumes about the heights Raki can reach for the need to protect the person he cares for. It showed a lot about his character, strong willed, courageous, impulsive. His character since has taken a hit but then once again who would try to snatch a meal out of an Priscilla's mouth. He is in a position in which he has to tread lightly to survive.

I don't see how Raki can possibly be a threat to a yoma, claymore, ab, nor do i want him claymored. I just want a even comparison of Raki versus the average human to get sort of a grasp that he is indeed not incompetent like many viewers have come to the opinion of.

[Anh_Minh]

He's a kid with little training. How is he "competent"?

He didn't fight Ophelia for five minutes. He was toyed around for five minutes. As for that AB - she didn't even try to dodge because Raki's blows were no danger to her.

Courageous and strong willed? Maybe. But that's all.

[Hikikomori Ja nai]

He's a kid with little training. How is he "competent"?

He didn't fight Ophelia for five minutes. He was toyed around for five minutes. As for that AB - she didn't even try to dodge because Raki's blows were no danger to her.

Courageous and strong willed? Maybe. But that's all.

Toyed around I disagree with :nono:, It was a fight that he was obviously not going to win. It was more meant to toy around with Clare. He didn't just stand there he did make an attempt to fight and claw out a way to survive. And of course the AB didn't block, but how many weak and pathetic shounen characters would have given up long before and just awaited death until and unlikely life saving event occurred? :dots: :hmm:

Look at Raki for what he is, of course he is a Kid, obviously he had no training, but thats even more reason to commend him. All he did was carry a sword in his arm for the series and now he takes it out and uses it for the sake of Clare who is obviously more capable for defending herself than he is of defending not only himself but also Clare. :eyebrow:

Now he has become sort of like a "defender" with nothing to defend. That's where Priscilla comes in, while he no longer has Clare to look up to and pretend to protect he now sees Priscilla as that sort of weak figure who he can help. It's all like an humanitarian effort for Raki. Weird indeed but I still commend his character for being somewhat strong.

[Anh_Minh]

Toyed around I disagree with :nono:, It was a fight that he was obviously not going to win. It was more meant to toy around with Clare. He didn't just stand there he did make an attempt to fight and claw out a way to survive.
Whatever. The point is, Ophelia wasn't trying to kill him. She was trying to make his torment last. That took absolutely no skill on his part.


And of course the AB didn't block, but how many weak and pathetic shounen characters would have given up long before and just awaited death until and unlikely life saving event occurred? :dots: :hmm:

Among main casts? None, or close to it. The only ones who give up in such circumstances are nameless bit-characters whose only role in the story is to be victims and show off the enemy's evil.

Some protagonists, I'll grant, start off cowardly before growing into heroes. But when cornered into "protecting their friends", they'll show as much courage as anyone.

Look at Raki for what he is, of course he is a Kid, obviously he had no training, but thats even more reason to commend him. All he did was carry a sword in his arm for the series and now he takes it out and uses it for the sake of Clare who is obviously more capable for defending herself than he is of defending not only himself but also Clare. :eyebrow:

Now he has become sort of like a "defender" with nothing to defend. That's where Priscilla comes in, while he no longer has Clare to look up to and pretend to protect he now sees Priscilla as that sort of weak figure who he can help. It's all like an humanitarian effort for Raki. Weird indeed but I still commend his character for being somewhat strong.
But none of that makes him "competent", which is what I was disputing. He may be brave, but he's a yorkshire in a world of dobermans. No matter how bravely he barks, he has no bite.

[Hikikomori Ja nai]

But none of that makes him "competent", which is what I was disputing. He may be brave, but he's a yorkshire in a world of dobermans. No matter how bravely he barks, he has no bite.

So your saying he is not competent as a yorkshire? well I think he is competent in his role, Just my misguided opinion though:heh:

Going to have to agree to disagree.... :p

[Davidj]

I don't see how Raki can possibly be a threat to a yoma, claymore, ab, nor do i want him claymored. I just want a even comparison of Raki versus the average human to get sort of a grasp that he is indeed not incompetent like many viewers have come to the opinion of.

Well the lesson here is that humans have no use except as morality pets. But we knew that already.

[Twisted Reality]

Well the lesson here is that humans have no use except as morality pets. But we knew that already.
Cyborgs or half-demon hybrids are just Human +. A case proven by pretty much any cyberpunk anime/manga, Inuyasha or whatever narrative nvolving protagonists tormented by living a life in the limbo between the supernatural and the human world.

That is, their souls are just as rich as any other squishy meatbags, but without the meatbag part. Faster, deadlier and more than capable of rendering older and clunkier pieces of wetware obsolete.

Remember, you're human if you hold enough faith in the fact. It doesn't matter how many enhancements you have.

[emu777]

:eek:Geez!!! with this new episode my belief of Raki's invunerability has increased..

So far he's survived:
-Multiple yoma attacks
-Hugged clare while awakening and about to be beheaded
-An ophelia attack
-Isley
-Not only survived from priscilla but has her pining for him
-All while winning over clare

...all while keeping all of his limbs and only sustaining slight injury, And now he heads alone into pieta to meet a possible awakened clare. I dont know how many single digits are capable of all that, but I :bow: to Raki's unstoppable luck.

[Twisted Reality]

Geez with this new episode my belief of rakis invunerability has increased..

So far he's survived:
-Multiple yoma attacks
-Hugged clare while awakening and about to be beheaded
-An ophelia attack
-Isley
-Not only survived from priscilla but has her pining for him
-All while winning over clare

...all while keeping all of his limbs and only sustaining slight injury, I dont know how many single digits are capable of that, but I :bow: to Rakis unstoppable luck.
Nah. . .Clare's got him beat.
-A Yoma abused her on a repeated basis.
-She got kicked multiple times by Theresa.
-She fell off a cliff without dying, much less breaking anything.
-She survived a bandit attack.
-She survived Priscilla's Awakening.
-Then she went through a painful surgical process to become a Claymore.

It's not even really necessary to go through her career as a Claymore.

[emu777]

Nah. . .Clare's got him beat.
-A Yoma abused her on a repeated basis.
-She got kicked multiple times by Theresa.
-She fell off a cliff without dying, much less breaking anything.
-She survived a bandit attack.
-She survived Priscilla's Awakening.
-Then she went through a painful surgical process to become a Claymore.

It's not even really necessary to go through her career as a Claymore.

:hmm:...Touche

But that only means that both of the are protected by "the force"(the main character plot protection force that is :p)

[zhoutai753]

In short, all the male Claymores masturbates until become A.O.s. :heh:

And i doubt Raki would be different... unless, like i said some posts before, Clare gives to him all the 'sexual excitement' he needs. :naughty:

LOL im sure Clare will give him all the pleasure he needs

[PGilis]

The way the things are going right now, it's her or Priscilla!! :p ;)

[Cococokie]

116 replies lol. Many Raki "lovers" must be in here ha ha ha. I'm in the raki hater FC who want to join xD. Joining that FC = dun bother about Raki totally.

[PGilis]

:hmm:...Touche

But that only means that both of the are protected by "the force"(the main character plot protection force that is :p)


Nah. That only means they're made to each other... a truly indestrutible couple. :heh:


No matter how much stronger enemies #47 Clare - the weakest of all the Claymores - will fight, she will survive to all of them.

And no matter how much man-eating monsters, slave traders or crazy claymores the weak human-boy Raki meets, he will survive to all of them, too.

Truly a couple made by heavens (or made by the will of the mangaka :p ).

[jesuita83]

Raki sux.. But The main character should have other character for Romance and stuff, so Raki shouldn't die as he's importante as some said "Plot Device", I think he's gonna transform into a male claymore under Isley or train his as off and become a super human as Guts in Berserk.. (sorry to compare Raki to Guts)
Anyway, I would love to see his death by the hand of Clare. That would rock ;P

[Weird D]

Without Raki, Clare would be the stereotype "avenger" character that almost every series is now bound to have. And I don't personally see the interest of yet another lobotomised autist who can only say "Must gain power... Must kill Ita - err, sorry, Priscilla"

Besides, there are other subplots and characters that could be developped in that case, like Helen and Deneve (those two appear to be only REAL friends among Claymores, the others seem more like comrades in arms), or Miria's rebellion against the Organization.

Even weak as he is, Raki provides the sole reliable human perspective in the Claymore world. He 's the only one who took the time to know one of them, and respects them more than just tools with an expiration date, mercenaries or half-breeds that are no better than the monsters they fight (though the end of the Rabona arc might give the hint of a possible change). There was a reference to DBZ earlier, but honestly, the human characters in DBZ had an even more minor role than Raki has in Claymore, even when they could fight somewhat. They gave no perspective, no hindsights, and were relegated to mere plot devices and comic relief. Compared to some characters in other mangas, Raki was given a huge development in episode 21.

The authors are aware of his importance in the plot. The fact that we haven't seen him after the time skip is proof of that. First we saw the new supposed weakest Claymore, then the survivors, then Clare. We heard some rumors about Galatea and Raphaela, and then filler chapters. I really think this could lead to something big about him. The path they make take is possibly the most important turn in the current arc
- badass male AB or still the human perspective, or both, meaning an male AB who struggles to keep his humanity
- aware / unaware of Easley and Priscilla's identities, and his reactions

Save the survivors when they fight Alicia by killing Beth who is a sitting duck, since humans don't register as threats to Claymore and Yomas, severing the soul link and leaving Alicia a vegetable and the Organization in deep shit

What would Clare be without Raki?
-----------
Clare : Hello, my name is name is Clare and I must gain revenge by killing someone
Agnes (Zero no Tsukima), Shinn (GSD), Suzaku (CG) : Hello Clare
Sasuke (Naruto) : As president of the Emo Avengers Anonymous, I declare the session open... I sadly announce the departure of Guts who betrayed our holy cause since he found another reason to live - restoring his girlfriend's sanity... asshole... who needs love or frienship when you have revenge... *goes into full emo rant*
-----------
(Sorry, couldn't resist that one)

[Matrim]

Without Raki, Clare would be the stereotype "avenger" character that almost every series is now bound to have.

You are aware that proper character development can actually be achieved without the help of plot device characters like Raki? They could have developed Claire by using Raki or another human being with a totally different personality (the plot device character approach), or make her meet and interact with a lot of different people changing her in the process, make her socialise more with other Claymores, etc.

Even weak as he is, Raki provides the sole reliable human perspective in the Claymore world.

I see this as a problem with the narration and worldbuilding in the anime, which doesn't by itself make the character better or worse.

Compared to some characters in other mangas, Raki was given a huge development in episode 21.

And compared to properly developed characters Raki is paper-thin and horribly two-dimensional. Why not discuss the actual character instead of saying the obvious truth that there are worse characters in other anime/manga?

[Hamstadini]

And compared to properly developed characters Raki is paper-thin and horribly two-dimensional. Why not discuss the actual character instead of saying the obvious truth that there are worse characters in other anime/manga?

To be completely fair to Raki, he's what, twelve or thirteen years old? And most of the time he probably spent at his home village. It's not exactly an environment conductive to making tough choices or character building. "Development," if you're talking in the Claire or Deneve sense, comes from emotional pain and then growing out of it. The only thing that Raki has experienced so far is his departure from Claire (and naturally, his family, though it seems that between the time his parents were killed and Claire's arrival he recovered)

It saddens me to read through this thread and discover how many people have declared, "I'll like Raki if he becomes half-yoma." As someone said earlier, Raki won't have charm anymore if he gains power through augmentation. He'd just be like Weiss in Claymore Zero (ref: fanfiction.net), saving Claire's behind and cracking one-liners. Honestly, where's the fun in that?

Risking Matrim's ire, let's compare Raki to, say, Shinji Ikari of Evangelion. To recap for those of you who don't know Evangelion, Shinji has a purple biomech that can take over one quarter of the world. He is charged with saving it from destruction from beings known as Angels. He has the means to effect change in his environment... and yet he doesn't. Most of the time he stumbles around listening to is SDAT and saying "I'm useless." (An exaggeration, I know, but I hope I get my point across.)

Compared to this and after writing for Shinji for a couple of years now, Raki is a breath of fresh air. He is realistic in his impotence to affect change, yet admirable in his will to do so. Yes, he does stumble on his path to protect Claire, but he never wavers from that path and is rather creative in his means of doing so (i.e. stopping her awakening and standing up to Ophelia [I include this last part even though I acknowledge her 'toying' with him because if he ran or simply did nothing, she would have killed him anyway - plus, his slashing at Ophelia's arm while she was grappling with Claire forced Ophelia to release Claire]). In other words, the flesh may be weak but the spirit is strong - and flesh can always be made stronger.

I for one admire Raki for his embodiment of the human spirit - weak and struggling to be sure, but forever reaching.

[Negativedark]

You forgot Shinji also lives with two beautiful women, and works with several others. Oh and when he does finally grow a spine, it dissappears soon after.

[Hamstadini]

I have no idea how the first statement helps my case, but thank you for the contribution nevertheless.

[stormy001_M1A2]

You know, for his age, Raki is quite an epic dude. I doubt that 99 percent or more people here or anywhere which also includes me will able to do things that he did in the story. As I said before, observers can criticize since it is they are not involved, but when they in the exact situation, it will be very different story.

[Anh_Minh]

Epic? He's just a character. He's as "epic" as the author wants him to be. If he was real, then his imbecilic courage and unhealthy obsession would conceivably be something to admire.

But as an anime character... Well, I grew up watching people break planets with their bare hands, or cheerfully go against mobs of heavily armed people, dodging bullets while cracking one-liners. Just being a bit brave isn't going to impress me.

The real questions are: is he well written? Is he likable?

In the case of anime-Raki, to me, the answers to both these questions is "no".

[Defiled one]

Manga Raki is more rational and not so screamy. Decent guy once we get to know him. Anime Raki is just...Annoying.

[Hamstadini]

Which is why I only read, and continue to only read, mangas. Better storylines and no annoying voices.

[Davidj]

You know, for his age, Raki is quite an epic dude. I doubt that 99 percent or more people here or anywhere which also includes me will able to do things that he did in the story.

That's because we don't have script immunity.

[stormy001_M1A2]

I did not talk only about the anime, I was talking about Raki as character in all medium.

[Anh_Minh]

Manga-Raki hasn't done any of the things that made me dislike anime-Raki.

[superzombie23]

I uploaded the whole "lion" fight from episodes 21-22 combined with no Raki interruptions!!! I'm posting it in here too since it has to do with deleting Raki's crap scenes :heh: Someone requested I do some fight scenes with no Raki, so I just got this idea to combine them all... and I'll combine future scenes with it. THe quality is not too bad, but you do not want to download over 200 MBs... I'll youtube it once the fight is complete.

Here is the link. Link. (http://rapidshare.com/files/52572865/Claymore_21-22_Rigardo_fight_no_interruptions.avi.html) OMG XD... I just realized I accidentally added a little scene in a wrong spot... oh well. I'll fix it in the final complete version.

[Hamstadini]

...

I believe you have the wrong page, Superzombie.

[superzombie23]

...

I believe you have the wrong page, Superzombie.

It's related to seeing how CLaymore is like w/o Raki scenes not in the manga, so it's more than welcome in this thread I think.

[Hamstadini]

But did you have to sound so... gleeful? >.>

[superzombie23]

But did you have to sound so... gleeful? >.>
I sounded gleeful? :p

[emu777]

Actually I dont mind:).....the reason being that claymores getting dismemebered makes my day, need I remind you of the CLAYMORE BUSTER 4.0:D:p


http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z57/emu77/Claymore-OwnageX.gif


....doesent it just make you feel good watching?:innocent:

The point is I see raki as "nessicary" to the development of the plot in the seris but I do agree the scene timing could have been better.

[Green²]

Hmm...

Sometimes it's best to let the AMV (http://rapidshare.com/files/52637253/_Green___AMV_-_Shield_and_Sword__h264_.mp4.html) do the talking.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Bear this in mind too, Raki character is designed for long story like the manga so....in the way Madhouse is too faithful to the manga that Raki end up a very rushed character, especially in the late arc. Strange as it sounds but it illustrates dangers of adapting an unfinished work and trying to be too faithful to it.

Since the anime did not have the luxury of the manga does in time development department so Raki make quite a jump in his decisions and ideas about compassion torwards Priscillia or his long loyalty to Claire. I can understand why some viewers expressed disgust at how his character was developed, it is a bit unrealistic considering the time factor that Raki took in making some of the choices.

For example, the scene where Raki discovered true nature of Prisciliia in anime and his subsequent decision of not kill her will only make sense if they have been traveling together for long time, at least 6 months on the road where they get to know each other better and some bonding have actually developed. But the anime, since they in hurry to finish the story, tack in this scene and make Raki look rather a bit too whimsical in his decision.

That's how I see it, the problem of Raki's rushed development in anime to the point of almost "jumping the shark" phenomenon. Perhaps manga will do more justice to him, Raki in anime is simply a victim of anime limited airing time so his character development a bit disjointed.

[Hamstadini]

I completely agree.

In the manga Raki doesn't know the truth about Priscilla, and does the heroic thing in trying to save her from a boulder. Having nowhere else to turn to (and not knowing that he's with Awakened Beings), he travels south with Isley and Priscilla, where his fate is unknown after seven years. But, knowing that he's traveling with a master swordsman, he takes the opportunity to train under Isley in order to grow stronger. Thus the lines are blurred as Raki gains allies in the form of Claire's enemies.

Which is why I was so disturbed when I heard about Raki finding out about Priscilla on their first meeting.

It's too clean cut. Raki knows about Priscilla's secret, which means that there will be an emotional chasm between them no matter how long they stay together. Then, Raki finds out that Claire's at Pieta, and runs toward the battle? He's supposed to be smarter than that. I saw a scene from the anime where he's struggling in the grasp of the tentacled awakened being (before his and Claire's kiss [woo! :-D]) And he says "I'm not strong enough..." You'd think that event would instill in his mind the fact that he can't go up against awakened beings, much less a multitude of them. In this way, Madhouse does a disservice to the character by trying to rush their own interpretation of the story into play.

I'm thinking that Madhouse's contract isn't renewed for a second season of Claymore, so they can't do the "seven years later" storyline, and so they're trying to wrap this up all quick-like - Raki rejoins Claire, Priscilla follows Raki, Claire kills Priscilla and possibly dies in the process (my prediction). I'm hoping that Norihiro pulls a "Neon Genesis Evangelion Rebuild" and makes another ending or remakes the series in it's entirety.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Raki played a very big role in manga story too, it is just that he is more well fleshed out compared to the anime thanks to manga story development luxury in time. Madhouse decided to have closure on Raki-Claire-Priscillia conundrum much earlier compared to the manga which is barely halfway in exposition of this relationship between 3. Instead of leaving of open ending, the anime studio decided to end it with anime unique resolution of this part of story. Unfortunately, the anime has been very faithful to the manga general direction up to episode 19, where major deviations starts to occur. The faithful manga adaptation is showing Raki in development stage and when relationship between him and Claire is blooming into higher level. But, because of Madhouse decision to end it in episode 26, Raki's character development was bumped up considerably in speed to the point of unrealistic development.

He is not just a character in the universe, he is one movers and shakers of narrative in Claymore mythos.

Hence, many anime fans of Claymore found him to be whining, irritating and whimsical kid and Pieta arc deviation make him look worse.

[Hamstadini]

I've got one sound for the results:

Ugh.

[Davidj]

would instill in his mind the fact that he can't go up against awakened beings, much less a multitude of them. ]

He's not going there to go up against awakened beings. He sees Priscilla and he sees what Claire will become without someone to pull her back. He's afraid the stress of a huge Awakened One battle will cause her to awaken again, and he's right.

[Hamstadini]

My apologies. I should have been more clear; when I said "go up," I meant see an awakened being and expect to live. The same applies here - he'd better hope all the blood spilled on the battlefield masks his scent, or else the awakened beings will be on him like bees to nectar.

I still stand by my previous argument: he should not be running to Pieta - his chances of survival are low (disregarding Anime Gods) and the only meaning his death would have is to delight the Anime audience.

[Echoes]

I think the fact that he's willing to put his life on the line for Clare, even when faced with obstacles pretty much beyond his capabilities, is admirable. It might not be rational to rush in there, but he wants to protect something dear to him. The fact that he can't really do anything doesn't matter to him, he'd rather give it his best and fail than not try at all.

He faces his fear, it might not be the smartest move, but god-damn, I'm going to give him all the world's credit for being brave.

[Hamstadini]

*Pulls out his Quotable Star Trek*

"Long ago, a storm was heading toward the city of Quin'lat. The people sought protection within the walls all except one man who remained outside. I went to him and asked what he was doing. 'I am not afraid,' he said. 'I will not hide my face behind stone and mortar. I will stand before the wind and make it respect me.' I honored his choice and went inside. The next day the storm came...and the man was killed. The wind does not respect a fool." - Kahless to Gowron TNG "Rightful Heir."

I wish I could say that I could admire Raki in this instance. But this isn't Manga Raki, who at least has an apprenticeship under a great swordsman; this is Anime Raki, operating more on sensibility than sense. He's got no abilities, and isn't thinking rationally about the situation. Were he not integral to the plot, he would have died.

I mean, if you're going to charge headlong into battle against overwhelming odds for the person that you love, at least have a plan.

[Anh_Minh]

I think the fact that he's willing to put his life on the line for Clare, even when faced with obstacles pretty much beyond his capabilities, is admirable. It might not be rational to rush in there, but he wants to protect something dear to him. The fact that he can't really do anything doesn't matter to him, he'd rather give it his best and fail than not try at all.

He faces his fear, it might not be the smartest move, but god-damn, I'm going to give him all the world's credit for being brave.
Yes, he'd rather have Clare endanger herself trying to save him than acknowledge that, sometimes, the best thing for him to do is nothing at all.

In other words, he values his own twisted self-satisfaction more than he does Clare's welfare. Quite admirable.

[Hamstadini]

So Raki is worse than a Yoma in your opinion?

Raki does some stupid things at times, but he's not selfish.

[Anh_Minh]

When did I say he was worse than a man-eating monster?

He may not be selfish, but it comes out the same in the end. When he foolishly risks his life, he doesn't take Clare's feelings into account, or what she's going to have to do save him. It's easy to say "I don't care if you don't save me, so allow me to follow you into danger!", but he should know better. Clare will try to save him. Even if it kills or awakens her.

[Hamstadini]

He may not be selfish, but it comes out the same in the end. When he foolishly risks his life, he doesn't take Clare's feelings into account, or what she's going to have to do save him. It's easy to say "I don't care if you don't save me, so allow me to follow you into danger!", but he should know better. Clare will try to save him. Even if it kills or awakens her.

To some people, killing and eating a man outright would be preferable to this. And of course he can't take Claire's feelings into account - he doesn't know what the situation is at Pieta.

[Anh_Minh]

He knows it's bad. That there plenty of monsters he can do nothing against. In fact, if he didn't know it was bad, he wouldn't be rushing there.

And I'm not just talking about Pieta. It's more of a habit, with him. Like in Rabona (though there, granted, it turned out for the best). And with Ophelia.

[superzombie23]

Hmm...

Sometimes it's best to let the AMV (http://rapidshare.com/files/52637253/_Green___AMV_-_Shield_and_Sword__h264_.mp4.html) do the talking.

I liked it :O It could possibly bring a tear to my eye, but it can't.

[superzombie23]

Hmm...

Sometimes it's best to let the AMV (http://rapidshare.com/files/52637253/_Green___AMV_-_Shield_and_Sword__h264_.mp4.html) do the talking.

I liked it :O It could possibly bring a tear to my eye, but it can't. I wouldn't have liked it if it had ep 21-22 scenes in it XD...

[PGilis]

He knows it's bad. That there plenty of monsters he can do nothing against. In fact, if he didn't know it was bad, he wouldn't be rushing there.

And I'm not just talking about Pieta. It's more of a habit, with him. Like in Rabona (though there, granted, it turned out for the best). And with Ophelia.


Maybe, but that don't means he didn't learn anything. Maybe he has some kind of plan we don't know yet. Just episode 23 will tell.

After all, no one with youma power can sense the presence of humans. So if he hide himself in the shadows and go SPLINTER CELL-mode :p , he can enter in Pietta without no one noting him.

If he want to, he could have decapitated Ophelia in episode 12, too.

[Majek]

A man in his prime who trains regularly and can wield a very sharp sword of a decent size might decapitate a claymore, but Raki certainly couldn't.

[PGilis]

Remember Priscilla was just a normal child - probably using an ax or a sword for the first time - when she decapitated her youma-turned father. So is not impossible. It's more a question if you have the courage to do it or not.

When Ophelia was grabbing Clare, she was not expecting Raki to be there, until he yelled to her release Clare. Even so, he managed to cut her arm in his surprise atack - something not even Clare with all her power was able to do in episode 13. If he had not yelled first, he could have decapitaded in a sneak atack, if he really want to.

Even the powerfull Teresa was caught off-guard by those bandits, and after that by Priscilla coward atack.

All in all, i think what they said in AFRO SAMURAI is true: "even a master will fall under a completely unexpected atack". :)

[RoryTate]

Hmm...

Sometimes it's best to let the AMV (http://rapidshare.com/files/52637253/_Green___AMV_-_Shield_and_Sword__h264_.mp4.html) do the talking.

Thanks Green². That was a very good music video. I didn't realize there were so many scenes with Raki in them...I found myself sometimes having difficulty placing a lot of the images of him to the corresponding episode. But that's what an AMV should do: make you see the series in a whole new light. Good music too...and impressive video and sound quality for only 10 MB!

Watching this got me thinking a bit more about Raki. I believe that he is the difference between Clare having humans to save, as opposed to a human to save. The story works much better if the protagonist doesn't wander from town to town to rescue another faceless group of humans. With Raki's character, there is a face/story/history to the weaker beings, and there is also much more opportunity for variation in Clare's battles as she fights to protect him. Rabona is a good example of this.

Simply put, Youma are one-dimensional as villains, and sometimes the AOs are only slightly better. However, add in other human beings and Claymores as potential villains, and you've got yourself a story!

The Theresa arc explored the Claymore fighting against Claymore angle with impressive results, so when Clare went up against Ophelia later on, there was no need to redo this. Besides, Clare was too weak at that time for it not to be a mere shadow of Theresa's epic battle. However, the simple addition of Raki to the mix made the Ophelia fight sequence one of the most unique and memorable I've ever seen.

Then, of course, there's always Helen's interactions with Raki (or as he's more commonly known in her world: boy toy) to consider... :D

[DarkSide Hero]

pffft most of you are over thinking this. The only reason for Raki is that the average shounen can not identify with a strong female lead character.

[Hamstadini]

That's giving him too little credit. Let's analyze the situation of Claymores and Humans in general:

Claymores are made from orphaned girls, and they fight for humans only if they're paid the proper amount of money. In turn, humans see Claymores as Silver-eyed monsters and for the most part have nothing to do with them.

If Raki wasn't around Claire, what we'd be getting is Claire killing yoma and being shunned by human society - even what passes for Claymore society, considering that she's the lowest of the low. We'd be wondering what she was doing saving humans, if they were so ungrateful, and readers and viewers alike would turn away from the show.

Raki is the exception, the sinless one that would have saved Sodom, if you will. Like Claire with Teresa before her, he gives Claire hope that humanity has a redeeming value. And you have to admit, he can harm/kill humans without Claymore law interfering.

I believe you're going to have to do better than one callous remark, oh self-proclaimed "President of the Official Raki Haters club."

[Prongs]

That's giving him too little credit. Let's analyze the situation of Claymores and Humans in general:

Claymores are made from orphaned girls, and they fight for humans only if they're paid the proper amount of money. In turn, humans see Claymores as Silver-eyed monsters and for the most part have nothing to do with them.

If Raki wasn't around Claire, what we'd be getting is Claire killing yoma and being shunned by human society - even what passes for Claymore society, considering that she's the lowest of the low. We'd be wondering what she was doing saving humans, if they were so ungrateful, and readers and viewers alike would turn away from the show.

Well we will see a Youma Bloodlust called Clare somehow maybe after sixty or more battle she will fullfill her destiny (killed Priscillia). and if you say that Clare is strong because of Lucky(Raki), it's false. Because Clare is already strong from beggining



Raki is the exception, the sinless one that would have saved Sodom, if you will. Like Claire with Teresa before her, he gives Claire hope that humanity has a redeeming value. And you have to admit, he can harm/kill humans without Claymore law interfering.

shounen always demand for Romance even it Yuri :D

I believe you're going to have to do better than one callous remark, oh self-proclaimed "President of the Official Raki Haters club."

So What?

I like Raki, he face situation like me before (Gang war between my school that is no 1 versus another that no 3, minus youma and Impaled limbs). We survive that war not because power. but it merely because Our strong will. a heart that wanna protect my lovely Junior. and we always Number one. I hope forever. like Raki he is Number one in Clare heart. and that was make him the strongest Char in this story. Not by Youki, but by Will alone

[Weird D]

Finished watching the Raw for Episode 23. I have to admit that they picked a good moment to make him arrive on the scene.

While he was aware that Clare was in risk of becoming an Awakened Being, he had never really seen what it means. Sure, he got a very close view of a transformed one, and saw a human Priscilla crying whle eating humans, but he had never realised that ABs are actually worse than Youma. Seeing Clare in all her bloodthirsty glory, and in the process of awakening is a unique point of view that we might not get in the manga. And since he doesn't have the time to think on it, his first reaction will greatly affect the outcome of the series

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

That is a good take on that scene, yeah it will be good to see how he reacts to it.

[ShilienKnight]

That is a good take on that scene, yeah it will be good to see how he reacts to it.

he will cry and shout "nooo clare,please come to human blabla"or smth like that,its easy to guess

[Hamstadini]

@ Shiienknight: :eyebrow:

You know, all things considered young Claire gets into as much trouble as Raki does. She's held hostage by yoma, falls off cliffs, gets captured by bandits and gets in the line of fire during a pitched Claymore battle. And yet loliClaire/Teresa pairings abound left and right on fanfiction.net. Why aren't people complaining about her more often?

:thinker:

A lot of people must like loli-yuri out there...

[stormy001_M1A2]

Well yuri is more acceptable to otakus in general and many otakus will seethes in rage when there is a young kid surrounded by hot girls, getting the action. Because they themselves wanted the girls and will hiss at any competition. Moreso a boy since it will be ultimate insult to their already troubled manhood. Most otakus are not very well equipped dealing with females in real life so they want to have some exclusivity to anime females at least to satisfy their twisted manhood. ( I said most, not all)

Generalization? Maybe. But it is fun.

[Hamstadini]

Ha! Good one!

[DarkSide Hero]

Well yuri is more acceptable to otakus in general and many otakus will seethes in rage when there is a young kid surrounded by hot girls, getting the action. Because they themselves wanted the girls and will hiss at any competition. Moreso a boy since it will be ultimate insult to their already troubled manhood. Most otakus are not very well equipped dealing with females in real life so they want to have some exclusivity to anime females at least to satisfy their twisted manhood. ( I said most, not all)

Generalization? Maybe. But it is fun.

Or some of us like Homosexual relationships more than Heterosexual relationships.:D

[Hamstadini]

Or some of us like Homosexual relationships more than Heterosexual relationships.:D

But should Raki get bashed just because "some" people prefer a different orientation? :eyebrow:

[DazarGaidin]

@ Shiienknight: :eyebrow:

You know, all things considered young Claire gets into as much trouble as Raki does. She's held hostage by yoma, falls off cliffs, gets captured by bandits and gets in the line of fire during a pitched Claymore battle. And yet loliClaire/Teresa pairings abound left and right on fanfiction.net. Why aren't people complaining about her more often?

:thinker:

A lot of people must like loli-yuri out there...

Because young clare actually put herself through hell with barely a sniffle or a word, which showed determination and courage, and a belief that she could help teresa.

Raki hasn't shown these qualities other than saying he wants to do those things, crying and whining.

I like concept of raki in the series (connection to humanity, moral compass, love interest/support for clare, a gauge for humanity strength compared to other creatures), but even I am starting to find him annoying. He never really fulfilled the concept even this late in the game. With his age, trauma and overwhelming affection for clare, some crying, worry and whining are acceptable...at first. But his character, depite lots of time and devices used to try to develop him, hasn't actually developed at all (more so anime..he might have in the manga future).

[Zatoichi8820XX]

Well how do you speculate his character whould be in the manga

[DarkSide Hero]

But should Raki get bashed just because "some" people prefer a different orientation? :eyebrow:

Yes he should; he's an unbelievably ordinary kid in an extraordinary world; quite frankly he is simply boring. I've seen his character arc to many times in other stories where the main hero is female.
..and to answer your question before you ask; I hate Isley too. I feel he was made male just to remind readers who still in charge.:frustrated:

That's giving him too little credit. Let's analyze the situation of Claymores and Humans in general:

Claymores are made from orphaned girls, and they fight for humans only if they're paid the proper amount of money. In turn, humans see Claymores as Silver-eyed monsters and for the most part have nothing to do with them.

If Raki wasn't around Claire, what we'd be getting is Claire killing yoma and being shunned by human society - even what passes for Claymore society, considering that she's the lowest of the low. We'd be wondering what she was doing saving humans, if they were so ungrateful, and readers and viewers alike would turn away from the show.

Raki is the exception, the sinless one that would have saved Sodom, if you will. Like Claire with Teresa before her, he gives Claire hope that humanity has a redeeming value. And you have to admit, he can harm/kill humans without Claymore law interfering.

I believe you're going to have to do better than one callous remark, oh self-proclaimed "President of the Official Raki Haters club."

WOW I didn't see this post.... anyway you would have to ignore all of Clare's memories of Teresa in order to make her an inhuman dog of the organization.

[Yorae_paladin1]

That's giving him too little credit. Let's analyze the situation of Claymores and Humans in general:

Claymores are made from orphaned girls, and they fight for humans only if they're paid the proper amount of money. In turn, humans see Claymores as Silver-eyed monsters and for the most part have nothing to do with them.

If Raki wasn't around Claire, what we'd be getting is Claire killing yoma and being shunned by human society - even what passes for Claymore society, considering that she's the lowest of the low. We'd be wondering what she was doing saving humans, if they were so ungrateful, and readers and viewers alike would turn away from the show.

Raki is the exception, the sinless one that would have saved Sodom, if you will. Like Claire with Teresa before her, he gives Claire hope that humanity has a redeeming value. And you have to admit, he can harm/kill humans without Claymore law interfering.

I believe you're going to have to do better than one callous remark, oh self-proclaimed "President of the Official Raki Haters club."

Why should she save humans if raki was not around simple she is a tool of the org and if the customer pays she will save them regardless of what she thinks she rebels she is as good as dead. And how ironic she chose this fate.

[Hamstadini]

Yes he should; he's an unbelievably ordinary kid in an extraordinary world; quite frankly he is simply boring. I've seen his character arc to many times in other stories where the main hero is female.
..and to answer your question before you ask; I hate Isley too. I feel he was made male just to remind readers who still in charge.:frustrated:

WOW I didn't see this post.... anyway you would have to ignore all of Clare's memories of Teresa in order to make her an inhuman dog of the organization.

Your first comment revealed a lot about your position. By your "who's in charge" comment I'm assuming (and I may be wrong) that you're againstany male protagonist taking up screen time in Claymore. Which is fine, I don't know your background and far be it from me to argue gender preferences in this series.

Me? I find that for Raki there's about ten uber-powered male protagonists out there in anime. Can't crack open a manga in Barnes and Noble without some character crying out "Wish Kenshin/Goku/Ichigo was here! He'd know what to do to save the day!" That's what's boring to me - seeing one hero take control of the entire plot and winning with a super-powerful move. Raki is a refreshing change of pace in that he's not the main focus of the series, he's not a super powered hero, and yet part of the plot is siphoned off to him so that we get the feeling that there's something going on backstage.

As for your second comment, memories of Teresa would make her human... but only to the extent of giving her a drive for vengeance. And that never, never turns out well. Think on this - Claire pushing herself to be stronger just to kill Priscilla would leave her emotionally hollow, and the rage and frustration would make her awaken. In fact, Claire might have become a second Ophelia if she didn't run across Raki (think on their similar plots - Ophelia lost her brother to Priscilla, and Claire lost "second mother" Teresa). Positive reinforcement grounds Claire in reality in this case - getting stronger to protect someone is a far more stable reason than getting stronger to kill someone.

And before you argue this - Claire wouldn't have been helped in this "emotional stability" by making romantic overtures with other Claymores. When you see the person you love fall in battle, you either become emotionally hollow and numb, or a ball of rage.

And for Yorae_Paladin's post, the question is not "Why should Claire save humans," but it's "Why should the audience who watches/reads Claymore care whether humans are saved in the first place?"

I will gladly argue more points later on... after I fail tomorrow's Econ finals. :)

[DazarGaidin]

Well how do you speculate his character whould be in the manga


I don't know how it would be, but i know how i would write it.

I imagine later he would be much much stronger physically and mentally. He knows that as a human there are limits to how much he can do against his foes, but there are things humans can do, certain weaknesses they may be able to exploit, techniques, strategy and intelligence.

Think of the legends of dragonslayers. They were weaker than dragons, powerful, often mystical predators. Yet dragonslayers learned their enemies weakness, used parts of enemy's own body parts for armor to fend off their powers, created weapons and traps designed for the purpose etc etc.

I think it would be a cool way to go with a now 'grown up' raki. So far he has shown that human's are relatively powerless in battle but strong in heart. It would be good if he developed the latter into heart and mind, and translated that into strength in battle as well.

Imagine the guy from the holy city, I forget his name now. You could easily see him filing the role i just described (in the battle he even sorta did this, sacrificing his own body to immobilize the opponent etc). Now raki knows a lot about claymores, yoma and awakened beings (which i am sure he is learning/gonna learn a lot more witht he company he keeps). He could probably think of ways that even humans could defeat them (at least the regular yoma).

[Zatoichi8820XX]

I was thinking that he ends you like Jubei Kibagami from Ninja Scroll

[Prongs]

Bow to your highness Raki. the first emperor of Teresa Empire!
may Emperor and his two Empress long live and stay healthy

[Hamstadini]

?!?!?!?! :twitch: What does that have to do with anything?

[ipernorris]

I think Raki won't have any active role in the fights because, to be able to do that, especially after the Abyssal Ones' showdown, he has to become the strongest being around. It's quite absurd that he goes from being worthless battle-wise to being the strongest being in Claymore universe. I think his function is another: he rappresents humanity to Clare where Priscilla rappresents the Yoma.
In the anime Clare is almost awakened and has defeated Rigardo: too bad Easly and Priscilla are coming after so I think it's quite reasonable to assume that Clare will awaken completely in episode 24 or episode 25... Raki will be the one to bring Clare back to her sanity.

[MooMooFarm]

I think Raki is just irritating. His Seiryu, his spurting out CLARE CLARE CLARE. His very simple minded head even after spending this entire time with Clare. It's like wow, you got to live with a warrior, and regardless of her rank, she's still pretty damn smart compared to you and regular cannon fodder. How did you NOT learn anything? And if you can't, why are you in the spotlight? =(

It just seems Raki is destined to be some chump who at most will amount to some chump action that will save Clare's life or something that's not through fighting. Which to me, hurts, =[ cause fighting in claymore > all. And the kid's nowhere near smart enough to start doing tactics like Miria.

So yeah, nothing against him, just that his role and ratio to screentime seems undeserving. I loved it when they sorta cut him out in the manga the entire time. With anime, it's like, FRIG STOP TELLING US YOU EXIST. YOU ARE A BENCH/WATER BOY.

<.< Just saying, he NEEDS to learn how to fight. Manga has the potential to do that, anime? LOL you got screwed and as a result became haterized.

[ipernorris]

<.< Just saying, he NEEDS to learn how to fight. Manga has the potential to do that, anime? LOL you got screwed and as a result became haterized.
He learns how to fight? He can become the best warrior in the world but he's going to be an ant anyway to an awaken being, let alone to the Abyssal Ones and Priscilla... do they see him as a microbe at least? :D

[Hamstadini]

Psh. With Isley as his mentor...?

[Twisted Reality]

Yes he should; he's an unbelievably ordinary kid in an extraordinary world; quite frankly he is simply boring. I've seen his character arc to many times in other stories where the main hero is female.
..and to answer your question before you ask; I hate Isley too. I feel he was made male just to remind readers who still in charge.:frustrated:
Well, Riful was female. Pretty much all the Claymores are female. What's your point?

I personally like Isley, since I feel he's one of the few "noble" characters in the anime. Clare is motivated by little more than revenge and survival. Most Claymores have interpersonal maladjustments of some sort. Isley is actually probably one of the few characters motivated to protect AB's as his subjects. Oddly enough, he's the pinnacle of sanity compared to most characters.

Oh sure, he does sacrifice other humans like cattle and the three "scouts." But in all, he's not much worse than the Organization, a bunch of testosterone-laden girls or any other human king. He's probably just trying to find land to feed his subjects as a result of some rational decision.

[DazarGaidin]

Here is a question for you. What makes Raki so especially delicious to yoma? Since the beginning of the series they have called him especially delicious to the point they can't control themselves, pretty much every one he encounters. I wonder if the more goody or pure a human is the tastier his/her guts?

[Rhyel]

I can answer it? ;)

Maybe because Raki is the only food avaliable on mentioned scenes. :)

[Twisted Reality]

Here is a question for you. What makes Raki so especially delicious to yoma? Since the beginning of the series they have called him especially delicious to the point they can't control themselves, pretty much every one he encounters. I wonder if the more goody or pure a human is the tastier his/her guts?
http://www.cpyu.org/files/Articles/Spring%202006/Axe%20Body%20Spray.jpg

[Hamstadini]

More like Axe is based off of Raki...

[Blaat]

Psh. With Isley as his mentor...?

He'll still be a human and limited by human strength which is inferior to a Claymore.

[DazarGaidin]

I can answer it? ;)

Maybe because Raki is the only food avaliable on mentioned scenes. :)

Nah, the one in his town had plenty of other ones around. hmm the cathedral one..not sure if he was droolin over him but he did come out of hiding to snack him despite the danger :D They also go out of their way to mention how especially delicious he seems.

[PGilis]

That makes me wonder - during the time they were traveling together - what Clare did to Raki off-screen for him to become so tasty. :D Probably something involving a pot of honey... :naughty:

http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Food_and_Drinks/Condiments/Pot_of_honey.gif

[Anh_Minh]

Fed him well? In the middle ages, famine wasn't uncommon. Raki, OTOH, benefited from a steady diet of meat and exercise (all that walking from town to town).

[PGilis]

Y-yeah, yeah. Exacty. That's what i mean. And with lots of honey... because it's good for his health. :heh: :eyespin:

[Hamstadini]

He'll still be a human and limited by human strength which is inferior to a Claymore.

Psh. Wherever I go and talk about Raki, I'm always met with him and his human limitations and how "he'd be s much cooler if he was half-yoma."

Lemme tell you something about human limitations. They are meant to be broken. Bonds hits his 755th home run. Football players can throw half a football field and more. Runners can hit a mile in four minutes or less. A woman lifts a car to save her baby. That's human potential. Imagine what that could do, tapped and trained? That's what Isley can do to Raki.

And keep in mind that those are real-world examples. This is manga we're talking about, where physics are questionable, people can come back from the dead and continuity can be tampered with.

And fighting against Claymores? A cinch, if everyone in the Organization is taught Teresa's "I'll hold out my hands like they're begging to be cut" sword stance. He's not a yoma, so no yoki can be sensed. So long as he has the skill to exploit weak guards, he can win against them.

Yoma? He'll have to rely more on his surroundings and traps (my favorite suggestion - spring-loaded blades hidden in his shoes and sleeves) but it can be done with stock-thug yoma. Awakened beings he might have to rely on Priscilla or Isley for help, but who knows?

We saw with Audrey's "soft sword" technique that a yoma's strength can be turned against them. That could also apply here.

Don't talk to me about human limitations. Not in real life, and certainly not in manga.

[Anh_Minh]

A mile in four minutes? Clare, weakest of all Claymores, can probably do it in thirty seconds. While carrying in big sword and some armor.

There are strict physical limits to how much a human body can do. Unless he develops technologies and tactics rather beyond what we've seen in the Claymore-verse, there's nothing he can do against the magical beings known as yomas, Claymore, and Awakened Beings.

Spring loaded blades in his shoes? For him to be able to walk, those blades will have to be short and light. Meaning they might not even break yoma skin. If the yoma's really careless and everything works out perfectly, he might be able to take out the yoma's eyes... but are those really the odds you want when entering a fight?

Fight against Claymores? It looks vaguely more possible - at least they can be cut - but remember how the fight between Clare and the church soldiers went? Professional soldiers couldn't hit the weakest Claymore. Raki'd be better off becoming a gigolo for Claymores and poisoning their morning coffee or something, if he wants to kill them.

The soft sword still requires a minimum of strength. An ant isn't going to use aikido against an elephant. Not successfully, anyway.

So, yeah. It's manga. The author could make Raki powerful enough to fight whatever while still remaining a "normal human". A normal human who, like Dragon Ball's Krilin, can leap over tall building, is more powerful than a locomotive, and farts fireballs. But hey, he's the token "normal human" of the show.

But that would be just poor writing.

[DazarGaidin]

Well i posted a little back on how raki could feasibly contend with yoma in the claymore-verse, ie tactics, using their own weapons against them and exploiting weaknesses ala dragon slayers in fantasy stories. All of which would be even more likely in a manga. Not this manga mind you lol It wont happen but it _could_ in theory.

I think against AB he would be boned though without at least some claymore help.

Maybe ill make a fanfic of this with another human warrior besides raki. Like maybe with the increase in yoma and such and the organization numbers so thin (unable to respond as quickly to requests) some human's saw a chance for profit or glory or justice...

Plus i am sure a few towns didn't like the results of claymore's work either (how many family members were lost to ophelia? If im an experieced soldier coming home i am gonna know a sword slash from a yoma claw on my little brother's corpse)

[PGilis]

In another post i comment how even Priscilla when a kid - probably using a sword or an ax for the first time - could kill her father turned into a youma. So is not impossible to Raki defeat youmas using tactics and furtive atacks a la SPLINTER CELL games.

And besides, even those two guards in Rabona arc could hurt that big youma. So, if Raki focus in one-hit-kill atacks, he could kill youmas or even awaked beings in human form.

[Anh_Minh]

That's assuming dead yoma flesh has interesting properties in terms of durability and strength and sharpness, and can somehow be fashioned into weapons and armor.

And even so, he'll still have to contend with the fact that, compared to Claymores, humans are incredibly slow and weak.

(And actually, screw yoma body parts. Why not use that metal claymores are made of? It's indestructible, and can hold a stone-cutting edge!)


I'm not saying it's impossible for Raki to kill a single yoma. I'm saying it'd take an unusual set of circumstances, and that he'd be a fool to rely on it. Ten years old kids could conceivably kill tigers, but if you have a man-eating tiger problem, you don't send a kid into the jungle telling him "go and kill that tiger. Want a weapon? Make one out of what you'll find in the jungle.".

[Hamstadini]

Fact of the matter is, we don't know what's happened to Raki after seven years. For all we know he ended up as Priscilla's side dish, carnal or literal.

I'll just write up the last chapters of "In Fire," and adopt the wait and see approach. We'll probably not have another shot of him till 2008 anyway.

[DazarGaidin]

Sure, there are tons of claymore swords laying around. Hell if he finds rifuls abandoned lair he could use some duff rods as weapons/spears/traps. :P As to weather it maintains its hardness etc, I don't see why not? Haven't really seen the bodies revert to a softer state or anything after they were killed. Thats not to say that over time they wont decay, but if its a hardened shell..wouldn't the likely hood be it stays hard?

I definitely think its possible to kill off regular yoma (priscilla did without much problem). Just probably not a good idea to go head on with one. Powerful ranged weapons, traps, containment...all possible.

[hollywoodlou]

Sure, there are tons of claymore swords laying around. Hell if he finds rifuls abandoned lair he could use some duff rods as weapons/spears/traps. :P As to weather it maintains its hardness etc, I don't see why not? Haven't really seen the bodies revert to a softer state or anything after they were killed. Thats not to say that over time they wont decay, but if its a hardened shell..wouldn't the likely hood be it stays hard?

I definitely think its possible to kill off regular yoma (priscilla did without much problem). Just probably not a good idea to go head on with one. Powerful ranged weapons, traps, containment...all possible.

That was a miracle by what...a 10 year old Pris cutting off a yoma's head? It is possible that Kid Blunder can be a great swordsman, but that must've been a very weak Claymore that Pris killed off. If he was an expert swordsman, I doubt he could keep up with the energy and quickness of an 'above average' yoma.

[Yorae_paladin1]

We need stronger humans a la guts and less useless guys like Raki at least the anime version manga version still has hope.

[DarkSide Hero]

damn too much HuMAN love in this thread. This series is called Claymore and the main star is female. =p

[Yorae_paladin1]

damn too much HuMAN love in this thread. This series is called Claymore and the main star is female. =p

I do not mind if the strong human is female but anything is better than raki at this point. at least in the anime

[hollywoodlou]

I do not mind if the strong human is female but anything is better than raki at this point. at least in the anime

we're stuck with him. Unless yagi-san introduces another male character who's not an emotional wreck/wuss who says "Clare" 8 times an episode, he's here to stay. The lone human major character....(sigh) and he cries more than my 5 year old nephew.

[Hamstadini]

So this is what it comes down to, hm? What started out as a promising analysis and dissection of a flawed character is now par boiled to more name-calling and throwing of rotten vegetables to get him off stage. I shouldn't take it personally, but... I do. Why? Because in the quest for more excitement, people are missing the point of the character.

I will reiterate: in the manga, the Raki character is the embodiment of perseverance, the human will to survive. Claire could've easily become another Ophelia without the guardianship qualities that Raki brings out in her. In that way, he's essential.

And yet, unlike so many other masculine characters in manga, the story doesn't revolve around him. Claire doesn't go, "God, I wish Raki was here! He would know what to do," which she would undoubtedly say if Raki was a superpowered half-yoma. He's still growing into his own... and because he and Claire live for each other, I am almost certain we're going to see him in the future manga stages, stronger than ever.

But in the meantime, I see you people. I see you throwing rotten tomatoes at his time on stage while he struggles through getting back to Claire. And I think to myself that I could have spent my time more productively than sitting here trying to convince people who won't listen to a word I have to say.

I bid you good day, ladies and gents. May our paths never cross.

P.S. @ Darkside Hero: This is the Raki discussion thread. You take your man-hating ways somewhere else, because Raki is all this thread's devoted to.

[Tempest35]

I've tried to avoid this thread religiously (up until now) and I see that nothing's really changed. XD

May GAR no Kami strike you all down for your unbelief. :p

I think that people nowadays have forgotten about hope without going GARlock and the like...

The energy in this place is horrible. Must use Feng Shui to correctly align it back to a more harmonious state...

[Anh_Minh]

Sure, there are tons of claymore swords laying around. Hell if he finds rifuls abandoned lair he could use some duff rods as weapons/spears/traps. :P As to weather it maintains its hardness etc, I don't see why not? Haven't really seen the bodies revert to a softer state or anything after they were killed. Thats not to say that over time they wont decay, but if its a hardened shell..wouldn't the likely hood be it stays hard?
We've never seen what happens to them after they've had weeks to decay. Besides, you're talking about AB body parts. Much rarer than yoma ones.

Yoma seem to be made almost entirely of soft tissue. Their skin and muscles are very tough, which makes them hard to cut, but it's likely they'll soften after death.

I definitely think its possible to kill off regular yoma (priscilla did without much problem). Just probably not a good idea to go head on with one. Powerful ranged weapons, traps, containment...all possible.
Yeah, sure, but how do you find the yoma? How do you get it where you want it? How long do you have to prepare your traps and weapons?

[Blaat]

Psh. Wherever I go and talk about Raki, I'm always met with him and his human limitations and how "he'd be s much cooler if he was half-yoma."

Erm, don't automatically assume I hate Raki I just don't see him turn into a powerful being that's able to hold ground versus an average Claymore. If humans can be that powerful why do they need Claymore's for? Its a limitation created by the story.

Fact of the matter is, we don't know what's happened to Raki after seven years. For all we know he ended up as Priscilla's side dish, carnal or literal.

I don't think he's dead from what I've seen so far Raki benefits the most from the seven year gap so it would be a cheap cop out if he's been killed in the seven year gap (and a missed opportunity as well)

[willem113]

For me Raki = Sakura(naruto 1st serie).

He does nothing but stand there when Clare is fighting with the enemy.

In short he is a plot hole filler and nothing more.

[stormy001_M1A2]

I dunno how he qualifies as "plot hole filler and nothing more" if he is the one who saved Claire from Awakening in Rabonna Church.

[PGilis]

Yeah. And he protected Clare from Ophelia, too. Without him, she would be dead by now.

And thanks to him we got to know Clare's human side better, too. Otherwise she would be just another 'cold badass character without emotions, searching for reveange'.

Don't forget Clare just went to that city in Riful's arc searching FOR HIM! Thanks for that Jean didn't awaked.

And thanks to him we got to know what happened to Priscilla since the Teresa's Arc, too. And there's a chance he touched her long-time lost human heart... what probably will help Clare and the others to survive, somehow.

Nothing bad for a "plot hole filler and nothing more". :p

[DarkSide Hero]

I dunno how he qualifies as "plot hole filler and nothing more" if he is the one who saved Claire from Awakening in Rabonna Church.

When was thelast chapter we actually saw him =p
Maybe Yagi got the memo and secretly killed him off. :cool:

[Hikikomori Ja nai]

With the last episode I am pleased to see his character develop (albeit late and slow)... I was waiting for that revelation, when he actually realizes that he has no chance of actually being the protector he tries to be. He became down on him self and now thanks to the newly added member of "the Raki Harem" Deneve now he is back on his feet (some what back on the delusional path of protector). However it is still an improvement that he reflected a bit and realized that him just swinging a sword will not do nothing in a world of yoma and claymores. Now the anime has to find hime some sort of niche, I have a feeling he is gonna evolve into more than just the side story character/side-kick and I think something that he does will be the direct result of the final outcome. Much to the horror of many of you im sure ... :p :heh:

[Haxan]

I'm not a fan of Raki but I don't hate him. Sometimes the guy grates on my last nerve with his sorely deluded and naive belief he can stand with Clare during moments of mortal peril. But it's understandable that he just wants to help. He's just a kid after all with major tunnel vision when it comes to his favourite Claymore. I really wished she had smacked him instead when he refused to leave her while Ophelia was hunting them. I think that would have ante upped the guilt factor during their long separation and I always root for the angst. The kiss did nothing for me really.

Having said that, I'm really interested to see what's became of Raki after 7 years on his own. I'm hoping he's retained his kind hearted nature that makes him likable, but he's more tempered with a maturity that comes from becoming a warrior. I'm also hoping he's not some kick ass uber swordsman who can PWN yomas and Claymores with his abyssal flesh enhanced elite skills. I prefer a more grounded and vulnerable character. And I'm in the same camp who believe Raki's true strength lies in appealing to Clare's human heart and being a simple normal guy in extraordinary circumstances. Kinda like Xander in Buffy.

Well, I'm sure the manga will reveal all...eventually.

[DazarGaidin]

We've never seen what happens to them after they've had weeks to decay. Besides, you're talking about AB body parts. Much rarer than yoma ones.

Yoma seem to be made almost entirely of soft tissue. Their skin and muscles are very tough, which makes them hard to cut, but it's likely they'll soften after death.


We really can't say for certain. I might be inclined to agree that regular yama don't seem particularly hardened fleshwise. But certainly some ab corpses are out there and since usually they die by claymore via a request from some town, they probably aren't too far from people.


Yeah, sure, but how do you find the yoma? How do you get it where you want it? How long do you have to prepare your traps and weapons?

All of those are concerns, but if you think about it for a while, are you saying you can't figure it out? It wouldn't be easy but it is not impossible, some detective work maybe (again the rabona example, clare couldn't sense its location due to pills, so she had to rely on her knowledge of the enemy and deduction). Use some sort of bait?

And how long do you have to prepare a trap...i dunno, how long does it take to send a request to the org and a claymore to travel to a town? How long was the yoma in rabona killing off people (in fact, that city had implemented measures..they were just insufficient)?

[mrtictac]

im hopin isley makes raki half youma claymore :X

yea im just a romantic hopin and wishin lawl

[Anh_Minh]

We really can't say for certain. I might be inclined to agree that regular yama don't seem particularly hardened fleshwise. But certainly some ab corpses are out there and since usually they die by claymore via a request from some town, they probably aren't too far from people.
That's assuming the Organization doesn't retrieve the corpses, and that the Claymores leave anything usable.

But, OK, they might find some.

All of those are concerns, but if you think about it for a while, are you saying you can't figure it out? It wouldn't be easy but it is not impossible, some detective work maybe (again the rabona example, clare couldn't sense its location due to pills, so she had to rely on her knowledge of the enemy and deduction).
And in the end, it didn't work. She had to rely on her youki sense after all, to eliminate the humans from the suspect list.

Use some sort of bait?
How? Yomas are known for striking whoever, whenever, wherever. How will you make anyone particularly attractive? Ask a volunteer to bath in barbecue sauce? And how will you keep the knowledge of the existence of a bait from the yoma?

And how long do you have to prepare a trap...i dunno, how long does it take to send a request to the org and a claymore to travel to a town? How long was the yoma in rabona killing off people (in fact, that city had implemented measures..they were just insufficient)?

But remember that yoma look human most of the time. They look like your neighbor you've known all your life. So how are you going to prepare traps without the yoma knowing? If making the traps takes too long, or demands too many resources, it's impossible.

[DazarGaidin]

And in the end, it didn't work. She had to rely on her youki sense after all, to eliminate the humans from the suspect list.



Cathedral scene. Insert a smart yoma hunting human. Up to this point you determined that the yoma has to be in the cathedral. You gather everyone up who is a suspect. You walk up to the first one and reach...for his hand. You pull out a dagger and prick his finger. Oh its red...hmmm they all have red blood instead of purple. Ok, so..based on my knowledge ...he must be disguising as a corpse!


How? Yomas are known for striking whoever, whenever, wherever. How will you make anyone particularly attractive? Ask a volunteer to bath in barbecue sauce? And how will you keep the knowledge of the existence of a bait from the yoma?


I am not so sure they are known for that. But assuming thats true, they still are hiding as a particular person (at least we haven't seen examples of them switching around). That means there will be some sort of pattern based on a particular 'persons' actions. Superman scenario...where was clark when that superman killin was going on last night..no one should be alone..

That aside, you don't have to know or suspect the person anyway. Create a starvation scenario. Military law is enforced, people are kept under watch, set up patrols. Everyone is armed with a whistle, travel in pairs of 3 is required. If you live alone you don't anymore, you are put with other people. Also, systematic blood tests are being conducted dailey, adding pressure and desperation to the yoma (this is also how you ensure your key allies and those who know about the plans are legit).

The yoma has to avoid these situations. Targets become more scarce, any successful attack will be easier to deduce what happened. Then, you send out some juicy bait alone, seperated from the other 2 people, do it in multiple areas with sufficient backup squads. Squads are armed with powerful bows, poison tipped arrows (poison developed over time fighting them, after all you are yoma hunter). Before you say arrows wont work, an arrow is far faster and hits way harder than the daggers that little ratty dude sunk into that yoma (admittedly with little to no effect...but they werent poisoned..) A few soldiers/militia equipped with spears, a couple of your yoma hunting mercenaries accompany the regulars with claymores they found as grave markers in case the yoma gets past spears....or if he falls from the poison you can finish them.

If you think about any problem long enough someone will find a way to solve it. And thats my point. Hell if i was a yoma and i was faced with this level of security i would just leave the town.

[Anh_Minh]

Cathedral scene. Insert a smart yoma hunting human. Up to this point you determined that the yoma has to be in the cathedral. You gather everyone up who is a suspect. You walk up to the first one and reach...for his hand. You pull out a dagger and prick his finger. Oh its red...hmmm they all have red blood instead of purple. Ok, so..based on my knowledge ...he must be disguising as a corpse!
The purple blood is an anime thing. No mention of it is made in manga. But let's say detecting a yoma is as simple as pricking their fingers.

So you use your dagger and find purple blood! You're dead. The guards who were pointing their spears at the suspect, with just that mix of tension and boredom that ensures they'll be extra-slow? They're dead, too. Well, done, you've forced the yoma to change its hiding place! At the expense of several lives. And, in a city like Rabona, with all its goings and comings, and that huge population to choose from, how hard will it be for it to find a new person to imitate?

And if you truly make an inescapable deathtrap for your suspects... Chances are, the yoma will just escape early instead of doing after he's killed you and your men. But he'll still be at large, maybe even in your city.



I am not so sure they are known for that.Among Claymores, they are. Everyone is a potential meal. The population at large may have other ideas, involving sinners or whatever, but the Claymores know better. And so would any yoma expert.

But assuming thats true, they still are hiding as a particular person (at least we haven't seen examples of them switching around). That means there will be some sort of pattern based on a particular 'persons' actions. Superman scenario...where was clark when that superman killin was going on last night..no one should be alone..

That aside, you don't have to know or suspect the person anyway. Create a starvation scenario. Military law is enforced, people are kept under watch, set up patrols. Everyone is armed with a whistle, travel in pairs of 3 is required. If you live alone you don't anymore, you are put with other people. Also, systematic blood tests are being conducted dailey, adding pressure and desperation to the yoma (this is also how you ensure your key allies and those who know about the plans are legit).

The yoma has to avoid these situations. Targets become more scarce, any successful attack will be easier to deduce what happened. Then, you send out some juicy bait alone, seperated from the other 2 people, do it in multiple areas with sufficient backup squads. Squads are armed with powerful bows, poison tipped arrows (poison developed over time fighting them, after all you are yoma hunter). Before you say arrows wont work, an arrow is far faster and hits way harder than the daggers that little ratty dude sunk into that yoma (admittedly with little to no effect...but they werent poisoned..) A few soldiers/militia equipped with spears, a couple of your yoma hunting mercenaries accompany the regulars with claymores they found as grave markers in case the yoma gets past spears....or if he falls from the poison you can finish them.

If you think about any problem long enough someone will find a way to solve it. And thats my point. Hell if i was a yoma and i was faced with this level of security i would just leave the town.That assumes huge resources on your part. Where are you going to get all those soldiers? Certainly not in a small village. And let's not even talk about the loss of productivity of having everyone watch everyone else.

And remember a yoma can last weeks on a single meal. In those weeks, he'll surely find an opportunity to sabotage your efforts. Kill you most seasoned warriors and go away. Sure, the yoma problem will be temporarily solved, at a huge cost... assuming it doesn't decide to double back once the state of alert is gone. How long can you keep it up?

Though, on a brighter note, we haven't seen much smarts from yomas. Some low level cunning, but no real long term planning. So maybe it'd go better than what I've described - at least, you might be able to chase it off. Make it decide that there are easier meals out there.

But see, hunting yomas is neither easy nor cheap. I think you underestimate the difficulty, the risks, and the costs involved in dealing with even one yoma grunt, let alone an AB (who do have human-like intelligence. Fortunately, they may not look like your childhood friend.).

[DazarGaidin]

I knew the first thing you'd say was 'it isnt in the manga!' heh Well i can't really argue there, but then the manga doesn't specifically deny this either. Since i have one saying yes and the other saying nothing, I'll go with that. But thats not to say there aren't other ways we don't know about. I am sure if i thought long enough i could theorize on some ways (animals that can smell out a yoma could exist..fluffy might notice jimmy smells a little different, maybe capture a claymore, drug her or otherwise force her to do your bidding, 'rescue' a young girl claymore and use her for that purpose, or even capture and force a yoma to etc etc). If i think long enough ill figure out something.

Assuming the blood thing, and you prick their finger, he kills you, and the preparations you had in place to combat this occurance deal with the yoma. Come on, yoma can be killed by people with enough forces, they aren't equal to an army. That is why the yoma in the cathedral would run if a large amount of soldiers came. How many of those spears you think he can deflect from all directions?

As for the resources, yes you will need some weapons and a team of yoma hunter with the knowledge to mobilize and lead militia conscripted from the people. Depending on the size of the town (smaller town needs less mind..it will also be easier to weed out the yoma, less places/people to hide in/as), you have what...a cart of weapons? Thats assuming the town doesn't have weapons of their own that can be retrofitted. You make plans and put them in place, until the yoma is found and eradicated. When you leave, you leave behind a few stout men trained in what they need to reactivate the plan should the need arise, with instructions on how to have your faction dispatch any backup they may need.

All of the expense or downtime incurred probably doesn't equal the cost of a claymore, and you gain the benefit of the knowledge and plan to defend yourself in the long run.

Im not saying any of this is easy or even feasible for some towns (how many will just wet themselves and run?), i am saying that it is certainly possible. This is probably how the human population avoided eradication before the org developed claymores to combat the yoma (assuming they didn't churn them out from the start). Claymores were 'a better way' that the org developed and exploited. Doesn't mean it was the only way.

[Anh_Minh]

I knew the first thing you'd say was 'it isnt in the manga!' heh Well i can't really argue there, but then the manga doesn't specifically deny this either.
No, but it does say only Claymores can identify a yoma. If it was as easy as seeing people's blood, do you think they'd say that?

Since i have one saying yes and the other saying nothing, I'll go with that. But thats not to say there aren't other ways we don't know about. I am sure if i thought long enough i could theorize on some ways (animals that can smell out a yoma could exist..fluffy might notice jimmy smells a little different, maybe capture a claymore, drug her or otherwise force her to do your bidding, 'rescue' a young girl claymore and use her for that purpose etc etc). If i think long enough ill figure out something.
Wishful thinking, no matter the quantity, won't change facts.

If any dog could detect a yoma and warn people, do you think, again, that they'd mention Claymores as the only way to detect yomas? Maybe trained dogs can do something... but how are you going to train them, without cooperation from the Organization to supply live yomas to practice on?

And capturing a Claymore? So, in addition to your yoma problem, you want a war with an organization full of superhumans? You mess with them that much, you think they'll hesitate even one second to drop an Ophelia on you?

Other possibilities: powerful microscopes. Mass spectrophotometers. Think they had those, in the middle ages?

Assuming the blood thing, and you prick their finger, he kills you, and the preparations you had in place to combat this occurance deal with the yoma. Come on, yoma can be killed by people with enough forces, they aren't equal to an army. That is why the yoma in the cathedral would run if a large amount of soldiers came. How many of those spears you think he can deflect from all directions?
And do you think a yoma will let itself be cornered so easily? For that matter, do you think people will still want to fight the yoma who's only trying to get away, once the ten most heroic people around are dead?

The yoma in the cathedral ran because it had nothing to win by fighting. Not because it was in any real danger.

As for the resources, yes you will need some weapons and a team of yoma hunter with the knowledge to mobilize and lead militia conscripted from the people. Depending on the size of the town (smaller town needs less mind..it will also be easier to weed out the yoma, less places/people to hide in/as), you have what...a cart of weapons? Thats assuming the town doesn't have weapons of their own that can be retrofitted. You make plans and put them in place, until the yoma is found and eradicated. When you leave, you leave behind a few stout men trained in what they need to reactivate the plan should the need arise, with instructions on how to have your faction dispatch any backup they may need.

All of the expense or downtime incurred probably doesn't equal the cost of a claymore, and you gain the benefit of the knowledge and plan to defend yourself in the long run.
Dozens of trained men necessary to bring down even a single yomas, for the weeks necessary to weed it out? Practically no work being done on account of everyone having to move in threes, and not sleeping so they can keep watching each other?

And again, you underestimate the number of people needed. Sure, a few dozens might be enough to corner and bring the yoma down. But how many do you need to make sure those dozens are at the right place when the yoma finally makes a mistake and is discovered? And they'll have to be rare men, able to keep attacking despite taking heavy casualties without visibly harming the opponent.

Im not saying any of this is easy or even feasible for some towns (how many will just wet themselves and run?), i am saying that it is certainly possible. This is probably how the human population avoided eradication before the org developed claymores to combat the yoma (assuming they didn't churn them out from the start). Claymores were 'a better way' that the org developed and exploited. Doesn't mean it was the only way.

*shrug* Yomas don't eat that much. Assuming there just weren't too many, they wouldn't be worse than the plague, or wars, or whatever.

And sure, there may be ways for humans to fight yomas. But your scheme isn't it. At best, considering how long it'd take for your people to mobilize, come into a village, and get ready to finally hunt the yoma... At best, it'll force the yomas from village to village to move a bit more often. Big deal. (At worst, you'll just get a lot of people killed without accomplishing anything.)

[DazarGaidin]

Like i said before, you can continue to argue the difficulty of anything i suggest, but you can't say it is impossible. I already outlined possibilties, anyone could nickpick at them and claim a reason they won't work in any given situation. But you can't really say they couldn't work. I am sure if a little girl with an axe can ace one, a well trained human or force of human's with a head on their shoulders can do so as well.


And capturing a Claymore? So, in addition to your yoma problem, you want a war with an organization full of superhumans? You mess with them that much, you think they'll hesitate even one second to drop an Ophelia on you?

Other possibilities: powerful microscopes. Mass spectrophotometers. Think they had those, in the middle ages?


Sure i do, they have to maintain their facade to the rest of the world. Is she gonna lay waste to an entire town or city of humans? How long before there is an uprising? People far outnumber claymores, i dont care how powerful they are they wont stop mass armies of people. The org will lose its meal ticket as well. Im not saying some action would be taken by the org (if they do control the yoma as is theorized, im sure waves will start appearing..). Besides there might be people who hate the organization for stealing their people and turning them into monsters...im sure some of them wouldn't hesitate to do something terrible to a claymore.

But then, it was just something off the top of my head. Take a yoma instead. If you can get a yoma to the point you can kill it, you can subdue it instead somehow i am sure. Then you can keep it down with drugs and starve it to do your bidding whatever. I doubt they owe enough allegiance to any of their counterparts to risk death or even discomfort.

Oh look i am doing it again, ill just keep thinking up things for you to dismiss as not feasible lol

The whole comment about microscopes and such. I never made such suggestions but they sure do make me look silly when you loop it in with my comments!

Anyway, i find your example funny when you do have an organization capable of grafting people flesh and conducting these experiments. Teresa also mentions bacteria in relation to infections, so who knows? The might be laying around the org offices. lol

[Yorae_paladin1]

Like i said before, you can continue to argue the difficulty of anything i suggest, but you can't say it is impossible. I already outlined possibilties, anyone could nickpick at them and claim a reason they won't work in any given situation. But you can't really say they couldn't work. I am sure if a little girl with an axe can ace one, a well trained human or force of human's with a head on their shoulders can do so as well.



Sure i do, they have to maintain their facade to the rest of the world. Is she gonna lay waste to an entire town or city of humans? How long before there is an uprising? People far outnumber claymores, i dont care how powerful they are they wont stop mass armies of people. The org will lose its meal ticket as well. Im not saying some action would be taken by the org (if they do control the yoma as is theorized, im sure waves will start appearing..). Besides there might be people who hate the organization for stealing their people and turning them into monsters...im sure some of them wouldn't hesitate to do something terrible to a claymore.

But then, it was just something off the top of my head. Take a yoma instead. If you can get a yoma to the point you can kill it, you can subdue it instead somehow i am sure. Then you can keep it down with drugs and starve it to do your bidding whatever. I doubt they owe enough allegiance to any of their counterparts to risk death or even discomfort.

Oh look i am doing it again, ill just keep thinking up things for you to dismiss as not feasible lol

The whole comment about microscopes and such. I never made such suggestions but they sure do make me look silly when you loop it in with my comments!

Anyway, i find your example funny when you do have an organization capable of grafting people flesh and conducting these experiments. Teresa also mentions bacteria in relation to infections, so who knows? The might be laying around the org offices. lol

Hmm yah the org won't make a move against humans no matter what if they do thats it for there business. If they do send claymores this will get out and humans will never trust them again. If they do control yoma again they will lose trust basically humanity will not want the orgs protection. The only way i can see them feasibly doing thatis if they put a rogue claymore/awakened and say they had nothing to do with them however this also works againstt hem cause the awakened secret is out and humanity will probably choose the lesser of two evils which si the regular yoma.

[Anh_Minh]

Like i said before, you can continue to argue the difficulty of anything i suggest, but you can't say it is impossible.
I can't say it impossible for the yoma to mysteriously die off for no reason, either. Or that it's impossible for me to become a best-selling novelist. Odds are against it, though.

I already outlined possibilties, anyone could nickpick at them and claim a reason they won't work in any given situation. But you can't really say they couldn't work. I am sure if a little girl with an axe can ace one, a well trained human or force of human's with a head on their shoulders can do so as well.
It's a matter of scale. Sure, a freak accident where a little girl sneaks up on a yoma and kills it is bound to happen sometime. You only have to wait long enough. But a band of humans being consistently successful against the yomas, over and over again, instead of being killed in the first year? Much more unlikely.



Sure i do, they have to maintain their facade to the rest of the world. Is she gonna lay waste to an entire town or city of humans? How long before there is an uprising? People far outnumber claymores, i dont care how powerful they are they wont stop mass armies of people. The org will lose its meal ticket as well. Im not saying some action would be taken by the org (if they do control the yoma as is theorized, im sure waves will start appearing..). Besides there might be people who hate the organization for stealing their people and turning them into monsters...im sure some of them wouldn't hesitate to do something terrible to a claymore.
And I'm sure the organization wouldn't hesitate to retaliate. With extreme prejudice. Even if an Ophelia is excessive, a Raphaela would be enough to briefly convince them it was a bad idea.

There are some things you can do to the org. You can be rude to its agents, for example. But you can't stiff them out of their payment, and you certainly can't actually try to steal one of their precious tools to set yourself up as their competition without expecting retaliation.

But then, it was just something off the top of my head. Take a yoma instead. If you can get a yoma to the point you can kill it, you can subdue it instead somehow i am sure. Then you can keep it down with drugs and starve it to do your bidding whatever. I doubt they owe enough allegiance to any of their counterparts to risk death or even discomfort.
Actually, capturing something alive and keeping it under control is harder than killing it.

You also have the problem of how to learn what drugs will work.

But let's say you do it. Then there's the problem of keeping it fed.


But let's say people decide it's alright to give you a steady supply of human guts. Then, yes, maybe you have you yoma detector... And then, it depends on how smart they are. If yomas or even AB see the danger and decide to care, they'll exterminate everyone in sight, even if they have to band together. It won't take that many of them.

Oh look i am doing it again, ill just keep thinking up things for you to dismiss as not feasible lol
I don't dismiss them as not feasible out of hand. I try to explain why it won't work as ideally as you think.

The whole comment about microscopes and such. I never made such suggestions but they sure do make me look silly when you loop it in with my comments!
I mentioned it because I think it's a realistic way to differentiate yomas from humans. Unfortunately, the tech level is wrong.

Just as it was impossible to combat some diseases in the middle ages, no matter how long people "thought about it". They had to reach the appropriate tech level. It's the same for yomas. Without the right tools, you're not going anywhere.

Anyway, i find your example funny when you do have an organization capable of grafting people flesh and conducting these experiments. Teresa also mentions bacteria in relation to infections, so who knows? The might be laying around the org offices. lol
You'll have to remind me where she mentions bacterias. I certainly don't remember it.

And we don't know what's involved in the Claymorisation process. For all we know, it's as simple as "1. Cut open girl. 2. Insert yoma flesh. 3. ???? 4. Profit!". Or maybe the Organisation is made up of remnant of some long lost advanced civilization. That would explain their advanced metallurgy, too. Or it's all magic.

Whatever. For now, it looks like the Organisation has a monopoly on those resources, and they're not sharing.

I'll say this: the organisation could conceivably, with cooperation from the largest states, give normal humans ways to fight against yomas. They have access to both dead and live yomas to experiment on (well, we don't know if they ever bother capturing live yomas, but they could easily enough), they have a larger knowledge base on yomas, and can make sort-of-secure environments to experiment and train people with yoma search and destroying methods. But they don't seem to be interested.

[Ace_Sky]

Raki's AWESOME! Stop hating on him. He's way strong and emotionally harden for a kid, and plus Clare might need him to protect her someday!

[shouri]

Raki's AWESOME! Stop hating on him. He's way strong and emotionally harden for a kid, and plus Clare might need him to protect her someday!

I fail to see what is so awesome about Raki. He pretty much serves no purpose in the anime at all in my opinion.

[PersocomChi]

Im pretty much an anti-raki person.. I agree with u, he serves no purposes besides crying and whining.

but... a few days ago I came accross this picture and.. well if it turns out liek this (hopefully NOT) then I might change my mind on Raki...

7 years later...

http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1189712840307vs0.jpg

:heh::heh:

[DazarGaidin]

LOL people never realized Gut's real name was Raki :P

[mrtictac]

Im pretty much an anti-raki person.. I agree with u, he serves no purposes besides crying and whining.

but... a few days ago I came accross this picture and.. well if it turns out liek this (hopefully NOT) then I might change my mind on Raki...

7 years later...

http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1189712840307vs0.jpg

:heh::heh:

i hope raki turns like that, but u can already sense the berserk fanboys screaming if the new raki even closely resembles gatts

[shouri]

Im pretty much an anti-raki person.. I agree with u, he serves no purposes besides crying and whining.

but... a few days ago I came accross this picture and.. well if it turns out liek this (hopefully NOT) then I might change my mind on Raki...

7 years later...

http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1189712840307vs0.jpg

:heh::heh:

Haha, that'd be great. I'm assuming something similar will happen in the manga though.

[Hypervalor]

Raki is useful to claymores.

He can cook food for claymores... Especially for Helen :P

[DazarGaidin]

Raki is useful to claymores.

He can cook food for claymores... Especially for Helen :P

yeah helen should totally dig on raki lol :heh:

[Hypervalor]

lol, Raki is the only and current toy for claymores :P

Raki: Clare!!!
Clare: *Whisper on Jean's ear*

minute later...
Jean: Raki...
Raki: huh? eh? oh no! Clare!!!
Jean: Hihihihehehe!

Clare: No more Raki... Just as planned!
-----------------------------------------
lol, I think Raki can't become a claymore but he can become Man in black suit like Rubel :P

or Raki was planning something...
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v292/patrickng9/rakijustasplanned.gif

[Enara]

if raki becomes a claymore ( in a 1/10000000000 chance ) i would hate if the only reson her didn't AB was him thinking of clare like "clare I won't AB ontell i see you again" or "clare i love you i won't leave you" also i hate the rakiXclare pare

[Enara]

i do not hate Raki

[Pell14]

I hate the raki in the anime.
Raki is actually quite cool in the manga, but seriously annoying in the anime. Probably gotta
to do with the seiyu haha

As for Raki becoming a claymore, that is just LOL, cant imagine it. He probably will break the limit on his first try since he is so horny

[Hypervalor]

If raki take Clare's blood inside of him, he will be 7/8 human and 1/8 yoma.

Teresa = Half Human, Half Yoma; 1/2
Clare = 1 quarter yoma; 1/4
Claymore Raki = 1/8 yoma

Legends:
+: Human
-: Yoma

Teresa: + - (1/2 yoma)
Clare Human take Teresa's blood: + + with + - (1/4 yoma)
If Raki take Clare's blood: + + + + with + + + - (1/8 yoma)

lol, if raki become 1/2 or 1/4 yoma, awaking for him will be quick.

[King Lycan]

Im pretty much an anti-raki person.. I agree with u, he serves no purposes besides crying and whining.

but... a few days ago I came accross this picture and.. well if it turns out liek this (hopefully NOT) then I might change my mind on Raki...

7 years later...

http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1189712840307vs0.jpg

:heh::heh:

Even If Raki Turned Into Guts From Berserk I DOnt He Could Take On Awakend Beings
But i Think Ishely Is Going to give him some of his flesh and turn him into the frist claymore{wat ever u wanna call} to be made using an AO's flesh thats the only way he could beat an Ao none the less an Yoma
ANd I Hate-Raki To all he does is cry alll that clare yelling that he was doing was all a lie :heh:

[defrule]

I always thought Raki would protect Clare from turning to the dark side.

[King Lycan]

Well Just Being AN AO Doesnt Mean Ur On The Dark Side Even If They Eat Human's There Doing Because They Need To Live Dont We Do The Same

[DazarGaidin]

If raki take Clare's blood inside of him, he will be 7/8 human and 1/8 yoma.

Teresa = Half Human, Half Yoma; 1/2
Clare = 1 quarter yoma; 1/4
Claymore Raki = 1/8 yoma

Legends:
+: Human
-: Yoma

Teresa: + - (1/2 yoma)
Clare Human take Teresa's blood: + + with + - (1/4 yoma)
If Raki take Clare's blood: + + + + with + + + - (1/8 yoma)

lol, if raki become 1/2 or 1/4 yoma, awaking for him will be quick.

heh..also remember
That would make raki 1/4 teresa though, and that = win against 95% of the claymore universe lol

[Sqbi]

OMG Dazar u must be maths fan :)

[Jenya]

Teresa = f(x)
Clare = f'(x)
Raki = dx

[redmeat]

If raki take Clare's blood inside of him, he will be 7/8 human and 1/8 yoma.

Teresa = Half Human, Half Yoma; 1/2
Clare = 1 quarter yoma; 1/4
Claymore Raki = 1/8 yoma

Legends:
+: Human
-: Yoma

Teresa: + - (1/2 yoma)
Clare Human take Teresa's blood: + + with + - (1/4 yoma)
If Raki take Clare's blood: + + + + with + + + - (1/8 yoma)

lol, if raki become 1/2 or 1/4 yoma, awaking for him will be quick.

LOL what are the units? Did you take concentration into account? What about blood type compatibility? :eyespin:

[Nesty]

i bet 1/8th raki would have some sort of special ability or skill like all other claymores, except his would be crying for 5 minutes (aka humor from ep26 lol)

[Tempest35]

i bet 1/8th raki would have some sort of special ability or skill like all other claymores, except his would be crying for 5 minutes (aka humor from ep26 lol)

I vote pheramones for his special power. :D

[Nesty]

I vote pheramones for his special power. :D

oh right right, he could advertise "axe bodystray" while he's crying :heh:

[LesAmiesNoir]

I decided to add to this thread so allow me to rant a little.

Now I don't think there's anything wrong with Raki, somehow his voice actor didn't annoy me (Since I've heard worse.)
I also like the fact that Claymore is a shounen manga where the main character is a girl, and the (looking in perspective of fighting.) "pathetic" sidekick is a guy. I have seen to many manga where it's the opposit, so I'm glad to se a change. I mean almost no one complain about when the main (usually male in this case) character has a cute little "girl friend" by his side that doesn't add much more then being his girlfriend (Or possibly best friend in some cases. I could make examples but I won't.). And besides I've seen many far more annoying characters.

So I hope that Raki will grow up to stand a bit more even on the battlefield, get friendly like with Easily and later be able to return to Clare and return that kiss ^_-

[stormy001_M1A2]

A lot people have problem with gender reversal roles, good example will be legions of anti Raki here. Hehehe. Oh well, did not bother me the least.

[DazarGaidin]

Raki is good for the story, he is the representation of humanity in a world ruled by monsters and people on the threshold of becoming them.