[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 1 Legend of the golden witch

[kj1980]

Today is the release date of Umineko at C72.

You are reading this because you know what this game is and why it's being anticipated.

Please carry on you discussion here. Hopefully this will get its own series thread when it becomes successful enough to be a yet another anime franchise.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wikipedia
Umineko no Naku Koro ni on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umineko)

[harukamae]

curse you people who live close enough to attend Comiket! *sits and drools over Himeya's listing of Umineko*

[ayukanon45]

I just got finished installing it, a frined bought me a copy, but im beginning to think it was pointless, as i cant read a lick of japanese atm. What do i do?! oh well, the musics still good.

[Sushi-Y]

I want to play this so badly it's not even funny. Will this game live up to the legacy of Higurashi? Or will the eccentric cast and plot make it a flop?

ARGH fly faster you piece of crap EMS.

[kj1980]

The next moe~ catchphrase:

u- u- u-!

But seriously Ryu-chan, you seriously need to brush up on making nine-year olds look like nine year olds! wwww

And Jeshika's (Jessica) tomboyish nature = FTW

[ayukanon45]

its pretty good so far , its nice to see that the TIPS is still a feature

[kj1980]

I have to say one thing.

Ryu-chan is a master at pulling in people's interest!

So far, typical closed-circle mystery...


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/kj1980/maria_kihihihihihi.jpg

And things are just getting warmed up...

[Shadow Miko]

Au au au will always be superior then u-u-u. MAN. I wish I could get this came.

[kj1980]

Finished with main story. I patiently await this winter's Comike for Umineko Ep. 2


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/kj1980/marias_friendwwww.jpg
Maria-chan, you're not talking about Frederica are you? wwwww

[Busaiku Chama]

Have any groups stated that they'd work on a translation for the game?
I can hope right?

[kj1980]

Have any groups stated that they'd work on a translation for the game?
I can hope right?

Yeah right. I tried numerous of times to sprout interest when Tsukihime came out. No one cared. The same reaction with KimiNozo, Fate, and Higurashi. Basically people outside of Japan are not interested in these games until they see it in anime form. It's only then they start saying the same incessant remark "is the an English patch for this game lol."

So I'll be blunt - yeah right. You're never going to see this game translated by any "group" until it becomes animated. I suggest that it'd be simpler to buy the game and work through it with a Japanese dictionary at hand.

[kj1980]

The following are from the Tea Party (Higurashi players, you would know this as the similar thing to the "otsukaresama-kai")




http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/kj1980/batora_vs_beatriche.jpg
So Beatriche the Witch does exist. Unlike Hanyuu, Ryu-chan made her show up this early. Henceforth, the question whether or not this was carried out by a supernatural entity has already been answered. So what is the story outline of Umineko then?


Beatriche the Witch does exist. She causes unexplained murders. Batora on the other hand refuses to believe in her existence and steadfastly states that there is no such thing as the supernatural -that the murders can be explained as a trick that can be done by any human. Its human vs the supernatural.

If everyone believes in Beatriche, she will resurrect everyone and take them to the promised golden land. But no miracles occur so long as one person - namely, Batora, refuses to believe in her (the point made in Higurashi)

Batora's take on true miracles: "If the miracles happen because everyone believes in it, that's not a true miracle. A true miracles occurs whether or not one person believes in it or not."

There is one way to defeat Beatriche the Witch. It is to prove that her "magic" can all be explained by tricks compunded to the limits of the physical human world. The world has changed quite a lot in the past 100 years of technological advancement. Can Batora explain the mystery of each of the unexplained murders to "kill off" Beatriche?
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/kj1980/beatriche.jpg

[kj1980]

Okay Sushi-Y, your turn. Let's discuss - I'm dying to go over and talk about Umineko to someone wwww

[cyth]

I have a question. How many hours of reading is the first chapter of Umineko? I'd hate to play something as long as CLANNAD, though I'm sure that's not the case.

[kj1980]

I have a question. How many hours of reading is the first chapter of Umineko? I'd hate to play something as long as CLANNAD, though I'm sure that's not the case.

It can be done in less than a day - including the usual restroom and food breaks. That is of course, if you meet the pre-requisite of knowing Japanese.

[Katsu Koneko]

Ever since I saw the trailers/promos on YT, the song being played was just awesome! Anyone know the title of it?

I wanna play Umineko. ;o;

u-u-u? xD Sounds weird.

[Klashikari]

well... simply :

うみねこのなく頃に (Umineko no Naku Koro ni)
Singer : Shikata Akiko

[Varion]

Have any groups stated that they'd work on a translation for the game?
I can hope right?
Yep. A couple of people over at Hinamizawa Club (http://hinamizawaclub.com/club/index.php) are itching to get started on one, so it's actually looking pretty hopeful. While what kj says holds true 99% of the time, Umineko already has recognition just because it's related to Higurashi. Who knows, maybe this'll be the first time there's a patch out before the anime version actually starts airing :heh:

[Avisch]

It's crazy but nice song.

I have question. Who exactly are the main characters of the story?
I assume they are Jessica, Battler (Batora), Maria, and (possibly) George).

I understand that the story is likely driven by all the characters. But eventually won't the visual novel focus on only one group of characters.

Also how is the in-game music?

And it's pretty cool of 07th Expansion to continue using nscripter. Despite the fact that kirkiri2 has been considereed superior.

[theacefrehley]

Is it just mee or Umineko is as short as onikakushi-hen of higurashi?

I'm the one that is itching to translate this thing

so far
prologue, chapter 1 and 2 are looking incredibly short to me (ripped to MS-word they are only 5/14/16 pages)

Do the chapters get longer, kj1980?
Right now I'm unable to "play" it

[Rias]

Umineko sold out in 30 minutes in C72...
http://mantanweb.mainichi.co.jp/web/2007/08/720730.html

[Varion]

Is it just mee or Umineko is as short as onikakushi-hen of higurashi?

The script file for Umineko is like twice the length of Onikakushi, and I'm guessing the chapter lengths vary. The Higurashi chapters were never consistently the same length either.

Avisch:
- It starts from Battler's perspective. I haven't read much.
- From going through the music folder, it's great. 07th expansion really know how to get good composers on their side.

[ThreadsofFate]

Does anyone have a release date/title for episode 2?

And does anyone know where I can find a picture of that portrait of that woman shown at the beginning of the video?

[Rias]

Does anyone have a release date/title for episode 2?

And does anyone know where I can find a picture of that portrait of that woman shown at the beginning of the video?

Although the sequel hasn't been announced yet, it is safe to say that the next chapter will be released in C73

[Katsu Koneko]

XD Thanks so much for the title.

Umineko sold out in 30 minutes in C72...
http://mantanweb.mainichi.co.jp/web/2007/08/720730.html

O_O DANG 30 MINUTES. Wow..

[ThreadsofFate]

C73?O_O Never heard of it.

[Varion]

C73?O_O Never heard of it.

Comiket 73. Don't know if the date for it has been annouced, though it'll be in winter. Think it's usually near the end of December though.

[ThreadsofFate]

Hmm...I see. I really just need the title, since I'm not planning to buy the game any time soon.

I hope they release a pic of that portrait soon though.@_@

[Bokunenjin]

I just got past the part in-game where they first show it.
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/4982/portraitsd1.th.jpg (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=portraitsd1.jpg)
So far it's been a nice read, though I'm just a bit reluctant to continue knowing I'll have to wait until next comiket before chapter 2 comes out.

Edit: This has some pretty amazing music, does anyone know who made it? The only thing I recognize is HANE (http://www.geocities.jp/mg_dai/music/hane.mp3) as I've seen it on dai's site before.

[theacefrehley]

I just got past the part in-game where they first show it.
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/4982/portraitsd1.th.jpg (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=portraitsd1.jpg)
So far it's been a nice read, though I'm just a bit reluctant to continue knowing I'll have to wait until next comiket before chapter 2 comes out.

Edit: This has some pretty amazing music, does anyone know who made it? The only thing I recognize is HANE (http://www.geocities.jp/mg_dai/music/hane.mp3) as I've seen it on dai's site before.

This one is so much of a "you"'s deja vu

[Rias]

Still slowly grinding thru the story (too much distraction from other C72 goodies)

The introduction sure is long (alot of character introductions), currently just got past 1st day lunch.

[kj1980]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/kj1980/bernkastel.jpg
Frederica, is that you!???

And Frualein Lambdadelta = Miyo (Lambda = 30, Delta = 4)!????

Ryu-chan, you sure know how to make things interesting wwwww

[Sushi-Y]

Okay Sushi-Y, your turn. Let's discuss - I'm dying to go over and talk about Umineko to someone wwww
lol I'm working on it. My computer blew up last week so I'm having it replaced. I'm currently halfway(?) through the game, I'll try to finish it soon.

Don't hate me for this, but Maria's "U-- U--" kind of gets on my nerves. :heh: I can understand Rosa's frustration during that rose garden scene before the storm.

And what's with Battler's boob-grabbing fetish? ^^;

Shannon moe~ (￣ー￣)

I have question. Who exactly are the main characters of the story?
I assume they are Jessica, Battler (Batora), Maria, and (possibly) George).

I understand that the story is likely driven by all the characters. But eventually won't the visual novel focus on only one group of characters.
Unlike Higurashi, where the game is told through a fixed perspective (ie. Keiichi), Umineko doesn't have a "fixed" viewpoint per se. When Battler is present, the story is usually told through his perspective, but the scenes often shift away from the kids to show what the adults/servants are doing (in this case, the scenes are written in third-person). In general, we are given much more of an omniscient view this time around.

Also how is the in-game music?
It's beautiful, the soothing yet emotional piano tracks from dai-san is still alive and well. But there are many excellently done suspensive/mysterious tones that fitted the tense scenes well.
(I love "Hope" so much :love: )

[harukamae]

Wow, it's amazing to look at the difference between this game and, say, Onikakushi-hen. Ryuukishi07 has come a long way - the music and drawings are awesome. Has the 07th Expansion Team gotten bigger or is it still the same people...? Because this reminds me a bit of the difference between Tsukihime and Fate/Stay Night.

[Bokunenjin]

Because this reminds me a bit of the difference between Tsukihime and Fate/Stay Night.I wouldn't go THAT far. The music has improved, especially if you compare it to just Onikakushi-hen. But the graphics are still not that great.I can understand Rosa's frustration during that rose garden scene before the storm.Me too, but then I don't really like Maria and the "u- u- u-" thing annoys me.

I've played up to the reading of Beatrice's letter now and I'm really getting into it, also really digging the music. Especially 犯行の予告状読み上げ, u2_nighteyes and gc-01 are very good.

[Kazuki_Kun]

Uhm, this may sound like a really stupid question, but is Umineko like a continuation, or is it set in the higurashi universe, but just in a different place with different characters?

I kinda hope it had no real relation to Higurashi, as I'd rather it be it's own story, with no connections ( But it kinda has already happened with Frederica)

[GyroidFanatic]

Umineko no Naku Koro ni takes place in the year 1986 during the time frame of October 4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_4) and October 5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_5) on a secluded island named Rokkenjima (六軒島, Rokkenjima? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Japanese)).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umineko_no_Naku_Koro_ni#_note-0) The head of a wealthy family named Kinzō Ushiromiya, who lives on and owns Rokkenjima, is near death, and eleven of his family members arrive on the island to discuss how Kinzō's assets will be divided once he is dead. Also on the island are five of Kinzō's servants, and his personal physician. After the eleven family members arrive, a typhoon traps them on the island and shortly after people start to get mysteriously murdered.

And as for Kazuki_Kun's question, we may not know for sure either way for a few more years...

[Sushi-Y]

Uhm, this may sound like a really stupid question, but is Umineko like a continuation, or is it set in the higurashi universe, but just in a different place with different characters?

I kinda hope it had no real relation to Higurashi, as I'd rather it be it's own story, with no connections ( But it kinda has already happened with Frederica)
As far as I can tell, Umineko is not related to Higurashi. Although both stories took place roughly 20 years in the past, there doesn't seem to be any indication that Umineko is related, or even takes place in the same universe as Higurashi.

The closest Umineko came to connecting with Higurashi was when
Battler, during his contemplation, quoted a "novel" named "Higurashi no Naku Koroni", where the main character's mother mentioned how a perfect crime doesn't have a beginning.

Of course, Higurashi fans will know he's referring to Keiichi's mom in Tatarigoroshi-hen, but that's about as far as it went. This also meant that Umineko almost definitely does not take place in the same world as Higurashi.
I'm still stuck "halfway" through the game... Got my new PC though. ^^

Deadangle is such a cool song ^^ and 白い影 makes my eyes teary :(

[kj1980]

Why all this lack of love for Maria? May death fall upon you all kihihihihihihihihi

[hadora]

I finished it today, is it bad that I find Natsuhi more moe as Maria?
I really look forward to the next episode, Umineko no Naku Koro ni definitely didn't disappoint.

[Rias]

Currently for me it's Natsuhi > Shannon > Jessica > Maria

[Varion]

Edit: This has some pretty amazing music, does anyone know who made it? The only thing I recognize is HANE (http://www.geocities.jp/mg_dai/music/hane.mp3) as I've seen it on dai's site before.

From the sound test apparently, posted on 2ch:

スミイ酸 - ageha
スミイ酸 - 薔薇
z t s - stupefaction
スミイ酸 - 透百合
z t s - play
スミイ酸 - てくてく
スミイ酸 - Novelette
z t s - voiceless
スミイ酸 - 月夜
z t s - dead angle
スミイ酸 - path
z t s - suspicion
スミイ酸 - praise
z t s - witch in gold (cenbalo)
z t s - world end
z t s - world end_solo
pre-holder - Closed My Heart
荒井英理也 - Fortitude
dai - HANE
dai - Ride on
dai - Towering cloud in summer
土井宏紀 - Bring The Fate
北大路瑞希 - 弦楽四重奏曲第1番ト短調
dai - hope
dai - mind
プレコ - minute darkness
z t s - goldenslaughterer
-45 - 牢獄STRIP
dai - sea
-45 - system零
あきやまうに - nighteyes
dai - Requiem
ラック眼力 - オルガン小曲 第6億番 ハ短調
pre-holder - 暗闇の刻
dai - 夏の扉
pre-holder - 絵画の魔女
pre-holder - 痕音
dai - 白い影
ラック眼力 - 胡散の香り
dai - Core
pre-holder - 誘い
プレコ - 隣死
プレコ - 煉沙回廊

[Bokunenjin]

Thanks for the list, though coincidence has it I (finally) finished the game a few minutes ago and got to the sound test myself.

I thought it was a pretty damn good game. Can't wait for episode 2.

[I<3killerloli's]

Is it more interactive thatn Higurashi? How does it compare in terms of story and intensity? From what I've seen here, this game takes oan more Western kind of horror story mystery (creeypy mansion, family inheritance, witches/hauntings, even the names) rather than the first series.

[chrno_the_sinner]

Is it more interactive thatn Higurashi? How does it compare in terms of story and intensity? From what I've seen here, this game takes oan more Western kind of horror story mystery (creeypy mansion, family inheritance, witches/hauntings, even the names) rather than the first series.

From what I've gathered, there's no choices at all, like Higurashi. The characters have English-type names, but they're written in Kanji.

Also, I do find it hilarious that Kinzo is translated in Atlas as Money Warehouse. I need to go through Atlas configuring the names...

[dspr8_rugged]

I actually stumbled on this when I was in Wiki and saw the game vids at YouTube. I was like ecstatic when I saw this game. Apparently, my life doesn't have to end after Higurashi after all. :heh:

Too bad that I won't get to see this until it gets animated (hopefully).

Oh yes, the OP song is sticking to my head like glue.

[BakaOnna]

Gak, I've seen the OP clip on youtube, and I love the song. Too bad I'll never get to play the game. Hopefully it'll get animated sometime in the probably late future. :(

[Bokunenjin]

It was a good 4 years between Onikakushi's release and the start of the anime, so you might be waiting for a while. Though if the only reason you're waiting for an anime is the game's language, Hinamizawaclub's translation project seems to be making rapid progress.

[dspr8_rugged]

OMG. I can't get enough of that OP. I wish there was a full version already.

[Katsu Koneko]

I know same here~ It's so addicting!

[kj1980]

I wouldn't consider Natsuhi to be moe, but I do sympathize with her as the only one who is serious about protecting the Ushironomiya household name despite her non-biological ties to the family. But yes, compared to the other female heads her age, she is the most good looking wwww

Shannon...well yes she is moe, but she kinda had her face blown off before we even got to know her more >w< I look foward to see more of her story in the upcoming chapters.

Jessica reminds me of Mion in many ways. Tom-boyish yet I'm sure she has a hint of tsundere-ness within her. She has all the characteristics of it, so she must be one!!!

And Maria...U-u- am I the only one who likes her?


Bernkastel - the tail is sooooo moe~!!!

[Bokunenjin]

I don't see the big deal about Natsuhi, though I thought it was funny to see how proud she was after her talk with Kinzou. I thought Kyrie and Eva had much more likable personalities from the little shown before they arrived at the house.

[Sterling01]

Just finished Chapter 1, and I find the story to be great.

I don't know why but Battler reminds me way too much of a older K1

[dspr8_rugged]

Can someone put up a screenshot of the mansion in the game OP (with and without the game logo, preferably)?

I'd appreciate it. :)

[Level E]

Can someone put up a screenshot of the mansion in the game OP (with and without the game logo, preferably)?

I'd appreciate it. :)

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/4765/190pu3.th.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=190pu3.jpg)http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8905/269qq2.th.jpg (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=269qq2.jpg)

Is this what you were hoping for?

--

I'm surprise that this thread is only commenting mostly just on the characters... btw, kj1980 you're not alone. I like Maria - especially how she interacts with Battler. Although Jessica is my current favorite. Also, while I like the character designs (and this could be just me), but I can't help not to think to myself ジーク・ジオン :heh:

Anywho, is there anyone who thinks this "mystery" is solvable?
I know that Beatrice introduction in the Tea Party does make her appear to "exists" but I think she she only exists in the same way Frederica existed in Higurashi. Ms. Bernkastel herself stated that Beatrice is nothing more then the personification of the rule governing this world. So, her game is beatable!


There were several instances where the game gave me pause.

First, the faces. Why were some of the body had their face ripped off, and other didn't? This has to have reason. I can accept that there was no time for Kanon, but for Shannon or Krauss? Wｈy only rip part of their face off? Why rip off Kumasawa, Genji, and Nanjo's faces but not Eva and Hideyoshi?

There has to be a rule governing this. The ones with the faces completely ripped off and were only identified by their clothes. It's possible for someone to fake their death. I'm certain we can rule out Shannon and Krauss since I would think it'll be tough to fake their deaths when they still have part of their faces left on them. But I have to wonder why keep them different. Possibly, their deaths didn't go as planned? Shannon might have been coincidental since she wasn't suppose to be there. Krauss... Possibly Natsuhi was suppose be killed and not him? or maybe the half face represent only "half" of them were killed? In Klauss' case Natsuhi was still alive. In Shannon, George (or possibly Kanon) was still alive.

Second, the "ice picks."
Why leave the ice picks in Eva, Hideyoshi, Kanon, Kumasawa, Genji, and Nanjo, but not in Kinzo? This does not make sense.

This makes me believe the burnt body isn't Kinzo.
Then who's body could it be? The body was burnt badly enough where the gender couldn't be specified. It could be the body of one of the first six that were killed as Battler suspected. But Kinzo has six toes, so finding a substitute would be difficult, however, six toes is a genetic trait common in the Ushiromiya family. Of the first six killed Rudolf, Krauss, and Rosa where blood related to Kinzo. Could one of them had six toes?

Going back to the ice picks...
They all bear a name of a demon which each represent one of the deadly sins (wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins)).

1. アスモデウス (Asmodeus: Lust) kills Eva
2. ベルゼブブ (Beelzebub: Gluttony) kills Hideyoshi
3. マモン (Mammon: Greed) kills Kinzo
4. サタン (Satan: Wrath) kills Kanon
5. ルシファー (Lucifer: Pride) kills Kenji
6. ベルフェゴール (Belphegor: Sloth) kills Nanjo
7. レヴィアタン (Leviathan: Envy) kills Kumasawa

I believe that which pick kills who will change with each episodes, but this helps explain the character's motives. First, we know Kanon's motive was to avenge Shannon which immediately leads to his death. The rest... well, episode 01 lacks information, but seeing how the Mammon pick is not left in Kinzo's body, this might be a "fake." Either greed does not kill Kinzo, or this isn't Kinzo.

Speculation on these picks.
Lust. Eva wanted to be alone with Hideyoshi which leads both of them to be vulnerable.

Gluttony... I'm not sure. Possibly something to do with Hideyoshi's restaurant chain? Or maybe he asked one of the servants to bring him something? None of the servant's alibi are solid. Kumasawa, Kanon, and Kenji were left alone. Although we can assume they were together, any one of them could have acted on their own.

Pride, Sloth, and Envy... I really don't know. There's too little information. There is a possibility of a body switch. If this is the case, it's difficult to be certain which pick impaled who.

Next, is there a possibility of a 19th (or more) people?
Possibly. There's the Beatrice factor, but besides her, there are at least three other people who knew about this day. The two other 福音 servants there were two more named who are in the current rotation: 眞音　（マノン） and 恋音（レノン）. Also there is Battler's sister (?) 縁寿 (I think it's a female going by the feel of the kanji). I believe Battler sister is Kyrie's daughter unrelated to the family by blood. I think this line of thought is supported further when Kinzo does not mention her when he lists why all his possible heir suck (in a futile attempt to read her name, since I believe she's unrelated so non-westernized, Chizu? Yurika?). But, seeing how Eva and Hideyoshi were expecting to see her, she has come to these annual family meeting before. But if one (or more) of the six had faked their deaths, then its possible that there is not an extra person wandering around...

Moving on to the mysteries...
First, the missing rose. Was it really missing? I believe so.
The who took it? Or did it break off or the wrapper fly off with the wind?
I'll doubt the possibility of the latter for now. If someone took it, for what reason?
Gouda used roses in this dessert. Is this a possibility? I'll doubt that since there are plenty of healthier looking roses around the area, unless Gouda hates Maria (but there nothing that points to that at this moment). Then who could it be? Possibly the one who gives Maria the umbrella and letter later as anyone who knows Maria's personality would know she'll obsessively look for the rose giving the perfect timing to give her the letter.

The umbrella. Who gave it to Maria? Everyone denies giving it to her.
But if someone was lying who? Battler, George, and Jessica could not. Also Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, and Kyrie all have an alibi because they were "talking." That leaves Kinzo, Kanon, Shannon, Kumasawa, Kenji, Nanjo, Gouda, and Rosa. Kanon, Shannon, Kumasawa, and Gouda were preparing dinner so they do have an alibi, but it wouldn't be strange if one of them left for a short while to get something. It's believed that Kinzo was in his room - at least he was when he was called for dinner. Kenji was with him at this time. I don't recall where Nanjo was - but I would think it would be tough for him to pull off Beatrice :heh: Rosa does not have an alibi. Could it have been her? She left the "talk" for an unknown reason. She appears at the rose garden when Maria is looking for her rose. I think this is extremely suspicious. What was Rosa doing here? It does not appear she was looking for the children. Maria probably would have recognized her mom dressed (?) as Beatrice, but Maria is extremely gullible. Maria might have had doubts when she first got the letter, but seeing Rosa deny giving the umbrella and the letter herself, and frantically questioning everyone about it may have convinced her. Possibly she could have thought Beatrice only possessed her mother at that moment?

The first letter... more importantly the seal. Denying the possibility of magic in works, who found the ring Kinzo threw? Again, looking at the umbrella mystery analysis, Rosa seems the most suspicious. But then, how did she know the ring would be outside? Maybe Rosa was outside for a different reason... or maybe someone told her... The servants did notice the ring was missing from Kinzo's hand...

Before going into the murders, I'm going to take a look at the riddle. If the mystery behind the riddle is solvable within the 2 day period given by Beatrice, then Battler's analysis of the first part of the riddle is wrong. Possibly the river in the poem is referring to a river on the island? I doubt this, as someone would have notice this. Then there is a possibly the river isn't a river but symbolizing something else. If that's the case Ayu which is used to describe the river must also symbolize something else. Referencing the Japanese wikipedia...

アユの語源は、古語の「アユル」から来たものだとされている。アユルとは落ちるという意味で、川で成長した アユが産卵をひかえて川を下る様からつけられた呼び名である。

現在の「鮎」の字が当てられている由来は諸説あり、アユが一定の縄張りを独占する、つまり占めるところから つけられた字であるというものや、日本書紀にでてくる話に神功皇后が今後を占うために釣りをしたところ釣れ た魚がアユであったため占魚とあてられたものがある。

古くは1年しか生きないことに由来する「年魚」、体表の粘膜に香りがあることから「香魚」、鱗が細かいこと から「細鱗魚」などがあてられていた。アユという意味での漢字の鮎は奈良時代ごろから使われていたが、当時 の鮎はナマズを指しており、記紀を含め殆どがアユを年魚と表記している。現在の鮎が一般的に書物などにあて られたのは平安時代・室町時代ごろからとされる。中国での鮎は古代日本と同様ナマズを指しており、アユは香 魚(シャンユイ)と記す。

ちなみに俳句の季語として｢鮎｣｢鵜飼｣はともに夏をあらわすが、春には｢若鮎｣、秋は｢落ち鮎｣、冬の季 語は｢氷魚（ひお、ひうお）｣として、四季折々に季語がある。

I don't know how much of that or if any is useful info, but since this story is taking place in the Fall, 秋は｢落ち鮎｣ caught my attention. Within the same Wikipedia entry:


秋になると橙と黒の独特の婚姻色へ変化する。親のアユは産卵のため下流域への降河を開始するが、この時期の アユがいわゆる「落ちアユ」である。


So, if my guess is right, maybe the first part of the riddle refers to this?
懐かしき、故郷を貫く鮎の川。
黄金卿を目指す者よ、これを下りて鍵を探せ。

Meaning follow the line of children (the family line/tree) which can look like a river if drawn out?

The next part...
川を下れば、やがて里あり。
その里にて二人が口にし岸を探れ。
そこに黄金卿への鍵が眠る。

I'm not sure of this part... but 二人? In the family line the only people who have two are Rosa and Maria... or since this riddle was put up two years ago maybe it means Battler and Rudolf (since Kyrie and her daughter are not related?) I doubt the Battler line of thought tho. Battler wasn't coming to these meeting for six years...

I'm going to stop here for now. I have thoughts about each murders but, there's so little information about them, I'm sure my speculations will be crushed in the future episodes as more things are revealed. :heh:

[dspr8_rugged]

Yes, yes, exactly what I need. Thank you very much. :)

[Sushi-Y]

After scraping for time for weeks, I finally managed to finish the first episode.

The premise of the story itself is great, although the setting began to feel a little claustrophobic to me halfway through, seeing as how the entire story takes place in a very small and confined area. I guess the feeling of openness and relaxation offered by Hinamizawa in Higurashi must've spoiled me and left me a little unprepared for Rokkenjima's enclosed and tense environment.

Like many others, the characters appeared somewhat eccentric to me when their designs were first revealed (some even said that the Higurashi characters were drawn better). As I played through the game though, I was once again reminded of how skilled Ryukishi07 is with character development. Unlike some other games, where the characters remain flat and stereotypical, Umineko's characters are round, each revealing many different sides in their personalities, and clearly displays growth in response to story events. This immediately made them much more likable to me. Battler is probably a prime example of how a character changes and grows throughout the story.

My favorite characters remain Battler, Shannon, Natsuhi, and *gasp* Genji. :heh: Jessica appeared to be a tomboyish bratty girl to me throughout the whole story, although we saw her tsundere potential when she gave her mom the scorpion bracelet. :heh:
Natsuhi is a 病弱 character, a pretty good moe property, although I highly doubt we'll see her in any moe/love situations. Still, I like her for her modest and honest personality.
Genji is just filled with that 渋いness, I love him. :heh:
Maria doesn't appeal to me because other than some novelty in her character (a dark side, knowledge in black magic, unique speech style), she really is just a kid. Her absolute trust in Beatrice's reward has made her unlikable to the other characters during the story, and to those people who are trying to find a logical explanation as well. I'm sorry to Maria-lovers, but I cheered when Battler clunked her.

The musics were beautiful, there's nothing more to say about them. The tracks played near the end were especially memorable (dead angle hit the right spot for me as an endgame track, Worldend and Bring the Fate both sound incredible), other tracks such as Hope, 白い影, 薔薇... I love them all.

As for the mystery itself, I was pretty content with just going along with the flow of the story, and halfway through the game I was already compelled to side with the witch-believers since there were just too many things that cannot be explained. However, if we were to explore the possibilities, then it's pretty much endless.

Of course, I assume that not everything we saw in the game are real (that is, some of the supernatural scenes are not what they appear, but has logical explanations). Beatrice's appearance during the tea party and her demonstration hopefully counts as a "if Beatrice really existed, this is how everything could've been explained" thing. (btw, Beatrice looked better than any other character in the game to me :heh: )

Still, the hidden tea party also gave us some of the most important hints regarding Beatrice. I suppose this made the game much more like Higurashi in terms of the existence of "rules governing the story".

Oh, and Rik- I mean Bernkastel was scary. :heh:

Like Level E said, if we were to pin this on a human, then we must look at who is clearly dead and who's not.
People like Krauss, Shannon, Kanon, Eva, and Hideyoshi are almost certainly exempt from suspicion since their death can be confirmed through their face. The final 5 survivors (Natsuhi, Jessica, George, Battler, Maria) are most likely exempt too, since we pretty much see the story through their eyes.

For the remaining people (Kinzou, Nanjou, Genji, Rudolf, Kirie, Rosa, Kouda, Kumasawa), it's quite possible that any one of them could've prepared a dummy body beforehands to fake their own death (although the ones who died last, such as Genji, Nanjou, and Kumosawa are less suspicious, since they had alibi when the others were killed first).

If the deaths were sacrifices to revive Beatrice, wouldn't it be odd for Beatrice to kill them herself, since she's technically "waiting to be revived"?
On the other hand, I highly doubt this is a simple serial murder with the motive of getting Ushiromiya family's money. It wouldn't make much sense for someone to fake their own death (say, Rudolf, for example), since they will no longer be able to "resurface" once the police arrive.

If the money is not the motive, then all we have left is the riddle as the rule governing the deaths...
Anyway, I'm refraining from too much thinking, since Ryukishi07 always manage to one-up my expectations. I'm looking forward to reading the second episode. ^^

[Rena Ryuuguu]

OMG. I can't get enough of that OP. I wish there was a full version already.

me neither i love it *-*

[oya-oya]

Umineko is great, but... can anybody explain me how to unlock Bernkastel? Can't understand what to do with musicbox ><

[Sushi-Y]

Umineko is great, but... can anybody explain me how to unlock Bernkastel? Can't understand what to do with musicbox ><
The trick is similar to what Ryukishi07 did with his secret letter in Higurashi.

Go to the music box after finishing the game, and play the last track (弦楽四重奏曲第一番~). Keep replaying the track until the background graphic turns into a character tips screen.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/umi1.jpg
All you have to do next is go into the TIPs screen from the main menu and execute the characters in the same pattern as the background image, and the game will automatically start the hidden tea party.

[oya-oya]

The trick is similar to what Ryukishi07 did with his secret letter in Higurashi.

Go to the music box after finishing the game, and play the last track (弦楽四重奏曲第一番~). Keep replaying the track until the background graphic turns into a character tips screen.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/Sushi-Y/umi1.jpg
All you have to do next is go into the TIPs screen from the main menu and execute the characters in the same pattern as the background image, and the game will automatically start the hidden tea party.

Oh, i saw this screen with Beatrice, but i didn't attract attention on it and started to replay all tracks in the musicbox :) Thanks

[FireChick]

Ummm...I found the opening song for this on Esnips. If you wanna listen to it, go here. You have to be a member to download it. Sorry to be off-topic but this song is REALLY addicting in the beginning.

http://www.esnips.com/doc/e779375b-f74c-4e24-b215-8f2e8b5a493b/Umineko-no-Naku-Koro-ni---Opening

[Hypertaost]

ummmmm..... how many games are there in the no naku koro ni series? is higurashi the first or sencond? and which one is umineko?

[Klashikari]

Higurashi is the first one.
Umineko is named the "third", because they considered Kai as the number 2. (while Rei is 2+)

[Rias]

Finally finish reading the story...took a while as I kept sidetracking on other games :heh:

I'm not totally sold on the witch idea yet...this being the fact that alot of deaths aren't accounted for, like Sushi-Y already suggested. Also, as the premise of the story does somewhat resemble Agatha Christie's mystery, "Ten Little Indians", there is one thing to really consdier:

In these closed off island murder mystery, it is important to have a doctor-ish character, so we know at whattime the characters died and thus creates all theses questions about alibi. In Ten Little Indians, the real culprit blackmailed the doctor, so when the real culprit faked his own death (to let the rest of the cast and the readers to think that he's not the real culprit), the doctor was there to back up the story. Of course, soon after the doctor was killed by the real culprit, so no one knew about that the real culprit was actually still alive. This enabled the real culprit to do whatever he wants in the shadows, while the remaining surviors can only point the finger at each other

In the end, it's like Higurashi, that in the first epsiode we are introduced to the story and can only make all sorts of assumptions. If Umineko is following the footsteps of Higurashi, then some of the info that were presented might not be as accurate as we think.

[theacefrehley]

If we think on Higurashi

Back in Onikakushi there was no Shion present and her existence changes lots of things

We have the same here
people who might show up in the next chapters and were not present in this first chapter

Like,
Those servants who were not in the island at the time of the family meeting (Manon and Renon? forgot their names)
Kyrie's daughter
Kinzou's late wife (well, that'd be bizarre, so no)
Maria's father
Nanjou's son

well
it's useless to be guessing now

[kingsky123]

erm... is the thing voiced???

[Rayneing]

Nope. No voices.

[Rias]

Intresting results on the offical poll on Ryuukishi07's Umineko page...the top 3 "most suspicious" are...

1. Obviously the real culprit hasn't appeared yet -160
2. Roza - 104
3. Beatrice - 88

And we have big headed Maria :heh:
http://www.square-enix.co.jp/magazine/powered/new/popup/img/pic_umineko.jpg

Not convinced yet?
http://www.iogoo.com/AttachFile-86875

[theacefrehley]

Intresting results on the offical poll on Ryuukishi07's Umineko page...the top 3 "most suspicious" are...

1. Obviously the real culprit hasn't appeared yet -160
2. Roza - 104
3. Beatrice - 88



If I were to guess I'd say it's Rosa with the help of people that have not appeared yet
It's kind of obvious that Maria is being deceived by someone who says he/she is Beatrice and maybe she is helping the "witch" to make some impossible events happen (like that letter that appeared out of nowhere near the end in Kinzou's room), and there's anyone better to deceive Maria than her own mother.

[kingsky123]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgySy4r2Dl4

^ the opening of the game.

[Enerccio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bgwgpTeiok here is subbed one
also, check www.rokkenjima.com - there is MQ op.

Anyway, new umineko is going to be released at december 31th, I cant wait...

[Rias]

Umineko Epsiode 2 -Turn of the golden witch-
http://www.xastreet.com/bbs/UploadFile/4_886_13c87979a3fc7de.jpg

If the first epsiode is an introduction to Rokkenjima, the second epsiode is the start of the main story.

Starting from this epsiode, the witch's torture begins...

[theacefrehley]

「うみねこのなく頃に」
episode2　　Turn of the golden witch　
（DVD－ROM　エピソード１同梱）

１２月３１日　コミックマーケット73　３日目　西あ４４B　にて頒布
１１月３０日より各ショップ様にて予約受付開始!!!
【動作環境】
●OS:Windows XP　●DVD－ROMドライブ
●HDD:1GB 以上の空き容量
●ディスプレイ:640×480（FullColor 表示可能な機種）
●メモリ:128MB 以上　 ●DirectX 8.0a 以降
●サウンド:DirectSound に対応したサウンドカード
（Windows98　Me　Vistaでも多分大丈夫です）

Holy shit

1GB of HD?? DVD disc??
Will this game be long as hell or will we have some voices? (I'm dreaming too much...)
Or maybe a whole new set of songs...

[Klashikari]

Huho... looks like Ryukishi and his 7th expansion team are getting into superior levels oO
That's nice and dandy...

[Rias]

The big file size may be becuase of a new OP or 2? (I hope)...and probably becuase epsiode 1 is also bundled in (shouldn't make too big of a difference)


http://www.toranoana.jp/shop/071123_umi02/ss_01.jpg
http://www.toranoana.jp/shop/071123_umi02/ss_02.jpg
http://www.toranoana.jp/shop/071123_umi02/ss_03.jpg
http://www.toranoana.jp/shop/071123_umi02/ss_04.jpg
http://www.toranoana.jp/shop/071123_umi02/ss_05.jpg
http://www.toranoana.jp/shop/071123_umi02/ss_06.jpg
http://www.toranoana.jp/shop/071123_umi02/ss_07.jpg
http://www.toranoana.jp/shop/071123_umi02/ss_08.jpg
http://www.toranoana.jp/shop/071123_umi02/ss_09.jpg
http://www.toranoana.jp/shop/071123_umi02/ss_10.jpg
http://www.toranoana.jp/shop/071123_umi02/ss_11.jpg

[theacefrehley]

I did a checking in my umineko folder

Umineko part 1
movie files (2 of them) together are 95MB
Sound Files = 342MB
Image files (arc.nsa) = 151MB

the whole game is around 600MB

the new stuff is 1000MB

400MB of new stuff

text and script take a ridiculously small amount of MB's (not even 10MB)

I wonder what it will be, those 400MB :D:D

[Sushi-Y]

The big file size may be becuase of a new OP or 2? (I hope)...and probably becuase epsiode 1 is also bundled in (shouldn't make too big of a difference)
I loled at Shannon's lines in the 3rd pic combined with the close-up of her... I'm so dirty. :heh:

My first post in almost a month and it's spam, good job me. ^^;

[Li Jianliang]

The huge size is probably due to both Episode 1 and Episode 2 being in the same package...?

[theacefrehley]

The huge size is probably due to both Episode 1 and Episode 2 being in the same package...?

The game is just code, video, image, sound and text
code and text are ridiculously small in terms of MB's

With the same videos, images and sounds 07th expansion could add the equivalent of 10 chapters of text and code and it wouldn't increase it much

To add it with 400MB more, I can only hope for some surprise :D:D:D:D


and for comparison

Higurashi didn't grow so much from Minagoroshi-hen to Matsuribayashi-hen and it has much more text

[Sushi-Y]

The game is just code, video, image, sound and text
code and text are ridiculously small in terms of MB's

With the same videos, images and sounds 07th expansion could add the equivalent of 10 chapters of text and code and it wouldn't increase it much

To add it with 400MB more, I can only hope for some surprise :D:D:D:D


and for comparison

Higurashi didn't grow so much from Minagoroshi-hen to Matsuribayashi-hen and it has much more text
System requirements aren't really a good indicator of the amount of contents on one disk. All of my Higurashi disks had 500MB of disk space as requirement, regardless of it being a 1-chapter only disk (Meakashi-hen disk) or a 4-chapter disk (Matsuribayashi-hen disk). Even my Rei disk had the same requirement.

I would guess that the DVD-ROM format for EP2 is because Ryukishi07 finally broke the 650-700MB data limit offered by one CD (since he did mention there will be a collection of new musics for EP2), and the 1GB space requirement is just there as a precaution.

[Mr Fist]

Oh man, i wish i could read Umineko... My PC doesn't have japanese text and i prefer using my mac, AND I can't read japanese anyway...:sad:

[theacefrehley]

Oh man, i wish i could read Umineko... My PC doesn't have japanese text and i prefer using my mac, AND I can't read japanese anyway...:sad:

Well
There's a manga of it coming out in december

[Sterling01]

Oh man, i wish i could read Umineko... My PC doesn't have japanese text and i prefer using my mac, AND I can't read japanese anyway...:sad:
There's also a Traslation patch that's in the works...

Though for some reason I think the editing is going to take some time :heh:

no offense Ace

[kj1980]

Oh man, i wish i could read Umineko... My PC doesn't have japanese text and i prefer using my mac, AND I can't read japanese anyway...:sad:

Japanese text capability can be easily done on English Windows 2000, XP, and Vista. Since I don't use English Windows I can't help you here, but if you search around you'll find how to do.

And you've explained half of the reason why I don't prefer macs! wwww

[chronotrig]

Actually, it's the other way around. To use Japanese text in English windows, you need to download some extra files off of the startup CD. In Mac, you can read it by default and write it after a few clicks in the system preferences. And Mac has Boot Camp.

[Mr Fist]

Actually, it's the other way around. To use Japanese text in English windows, you need to download some extra files off of the startup CD. In Mac, you can read it by default and write it after a few clicks in the system preferences. And Mac has Boot Camp.

But here's the problem, I don't know have the disc that supplies the japanese texts which i need for both the PC and the MAC for the use of Boot Camp.:frustrated:

Unless there's another way to get around this... ideas anyone?

[Sterling01]

Have you tried Applocale

[Shadow Miko]

Does anybody know when the first motion graphic is being released?

[Bokunenjin]

Does anybody know when the first motion graphic is being released?
Same day as episode 2 is, last day of winter comiket.

[unasuvas]

The manga is coming out tomorrow, right? :D
Is there gonna be any group that plans to scanlate it?

[Aethos]

I wish I could read Japanese so I would know what's going on in the game. Still from what I've read in this thread so far it seems to be pretty interesting. Though I guess I'm gonna have to wait for an anime version or something to really get the gist of what goes on in the story since the thread and wikipedia is pretty vague and all.

[nekohiro09]

I can't wait for the the motion graphic to come out. The music and art in the preview looks beautiful O.O Also,I would love to purchase it but have no idea how to buy something from a japanese website.Someone help me out? A site that would carry the novel would also help me...

[Sushi-Y]

A site that would carry the novel would also help me...Paletweb is the answer to all of your doujin game needs.
http://www.paletweb.com/

[nekohiro09]

Paletweb is the answer to all of your doujin game needs.
http://www.paletweb.com/

thank you ^.^

[Sterling01]

Anyone know a site where you could buy the motion graphic CD when it's released that ships to the US

[Sushi-Y]

Anyone know a site where you could buy the motion graphic CD when it's released that ships to the US
You mean that new Nakanai series? For some reason, it didn't feel as fitting to me as the Higurashi series did. ^^; Maybe because Umineko doesn't have that developed sense of tragedy and epic-ness for me yet. Although the song is, as usual, a big hit with me.

Anyway, as long as it's not an event-only item (that is, if there are plans for in-store placements as well), you will most likely still be able to get it through stores like Paletweb or even Himeya. Even if the item is not listed, all you have to do is send them a request mail (Paletweb) or make a custom order (Himeya) and they'll get your item for you. It's not really practical for them to list doujin goods since most go out of print fast (+ few ever sell, if at all), that's why you'll only ever see the most popular goods listed.

[Kisuke06]

So, I have read this thread and understood what happened on part c(at least sorta of...).

Sterling01 said in one post that basically everything in that part c is explained on Saikoroshi-hen and Umineko. Saikoroshi is an arc on Rei, but how is Umineko no Naku Koro ni exactly related to higurashi?

[Eryops]

So, I have read this thread and understood what happened on part c(at least sorta of...).

Sterling01 said in one post that basically everything in that part c is explained on Saikoroshi-hen and Umineko. Saikoroshi is an arc on Rei, but how is Umineko no Naku Koro ni exactly related to higurashi?
The plot of the first chapter is completely unrelated to Higurashi (I think that Higurashi is said to be a fictional story by the main character of the game). However, there's a hidden extra (called the tea party) in which Bernkastel appears and discusses a few things that are related to Higurashi. My personal theory is that Umineko and Higurashi take place in completely different worlds, but that all these worlds are connected to the dimension in which the witches reside.

[Sterling01]

The plot of the first chapter is completely unrelated to Higurashi (I think that Higurashi is said to be a fictional story by the main character of the game). However, there's a hidden extra (called the tea party) in which Bernkastel appears and discusses a few things that are related to Higurashi. My personal theory is that Umineko and Higurashi take place in completely different worlds, but that all these worlds are connected to the dimension in which the witches reside.
Bernkastel also says that she is unable to interfere in Beatrice's world which I think is the world the events of Umineko happen in or it could be the world where Beatrice actualy resides in.

[GyroidFanatic]

The plot of the first chapter is completely unrelated to Higurashi (I think that Higurashi is said to be a fictional story by the main character of the game). However, there's a hidden extra (called the tea party) in which Bernkastel appears and discusses a few things that are related to Higurashi. My personal theory is that Umineko and Higurashi take place in completely different worlds, but that all these worlds are connected to the dimension in which the witches reside.
The fictional story part could be referring to the in-story book Akasaka and Ooishi wrote, called Higurashi no Naku Koro ni

[kingsky123]

lol guys im sorry im still editing this piece of work ( english version , sorry for the slowness )

[Miko Miko]

i really want to play this game.. The third one along in that set of pics looks like Rika :heh:

[Sterling01]

Is it just me or does shanon look pregnant

[nekohiro09]

lol guys im sorry im still editing this piece of work ( english version , sorry for the slowness )

Work Faster!!! No,just kidding,take your time and give us a nicely translated and edited patch. I look forward to it :)

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/4641/img001238ru3.th.jpg
I'm getting bad thoughts from this picture...bad thoughts indeed @_@

[Kisuke06]

Can anyone read what it says just below the logo on George's outfit, at first I thought it looked like Tomitake *something* which was kind of funny, but it's all a bit too blurry. Also his new outfit looks pretty fabulous.
http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/Bokunenjin/419.png

Kind of unrelated to your post, but just now I have noticed the "When They Cry 3" under the name of the game. What could it mean?

[Bokunenjin]

Kind of unrelated to your post, but just now I have noticed the "When They Cry 3" under the name of the game. What could it mean?
When They Cry is the name of the series. Higurashi is When They Cry 1, Kai is When They Cry 2, Rei is When They Cry 2+ and Umineko is When They Cry 3.

[melange]

Finished Umineko 1 tonight. Natsuhi, Beatrice and Bernkastel (especially Bernkastel) was <3.

edit: Playing thru the hidden tea party again.. I just noticed Bernkastel has a cat tail attached ^^0

[Vonmalvarius]

Hi everyone. I just got Umineko 1 but my computer wasn't able to understand japanese, so I set my Windows to understand it. The problem was that the installer was unable to understand japanese, the result was that it couldn't install any files with japanese characters in the name. To solve that I copied all the files manually. The game started but at one point in the beginning, it crashed.
It's at the very beginning when Kinzo is talking with his doctor when the screen is black and there is a sound effect.

It could help if someone could send a screenshot of the directories of the game when it is installed.
Please help me, because I loved so much Higurashi and I so want to play Umineko.

[kj1980]

Hi everyone. I just got Umineko 1 but my computer wasn't able to understand japanese, so I set my Windows to understand it. The problem was that the installer was unable to understand japanese, the result was that it couldn't install any files with japanese characters in the name. To solve that I copied all the files manually. The game started but at one point in the beginning, it crashed.
It's at the very beginning when Kinzo is talking with his doctor when the screen is black and there is a sound effect.

It could help if someone could send a screenshot of the directories of the game when it is installed.
Please help me, because I loved so much Higurashi and I so want to play Umineko.

Re-check your Windows settings to match the screenshots as depicted on the How to make your computer play Japanese games (Windows XP) (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=60120) thread and re-install.

[Chewy]

KgYr3L9e0dk


雨音
急かすように
再び幕が上がる
疑いの
心はめぐり
試されるさだめと
光 纏う蝶達が
今 手招く
世界は やがて
出口を閉ざし
鳴呼 愛を迷わせて

嵐が
塗りつぶした
届かぬ悲鳴数え
悲しみの
螺旋辿り
灯された
決意よ
光 揺れる蝶達は
また狂った
世界の扉
開けて誘う
鳴呼 愛も迷わせ
憂い残された言葉だけ
ただ刻んで
交わした
誓い
果て無き祈り
鳴呼 胸に眠らせて

光 纏う蝶達が
呼ぶ幻想
世界は壊れ
夜へと隠し
鳴呼 愛が見えない
海に響くあの声たちを
ねえ
返して
はかなき奇跡
幾億の夢
鳴呼 のせて舞い踊れ

Let me know if I got anything wrong.

[theacefrehley]

Does anyone know if there's a better quality place with that video, like stage6?

[unasuvas]

Does anyone know if there's a better quality place with that video, like stage6?

There's the video up at niconico.
[ HERE (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm1912950) ]

[Sterling01]

Here is the Prologue (http://www.mediafire.com/?2zzgmynttv1) of the Umineko Manga translated by theacefrehley and edited by me

It was my first time actualy handwriting some of the text in so some feedback would be great



http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q42/unasuvas/12%2031%2007/12.png


Can I use this pic?

[unasuvas]

Here is the Prologue (http://www.mediafire.com/?2zzgmynttv1) of the Umineko Manga translated by theacefrehley and edited by me

It was my first time actualy handwriting some of the text in so some feedback would be great

Can I use this pic?

Yes, you may~
Oh, me & serenade_beta were also working on scanlating the Umineko manga.
[ Chapter 0 & Chapter 1 (http://www.sendspace.com/file/ru9ln3) ]

But Sterling01, I like your translations & it certainly looks neater than my cleaning job for the prologue pages. :heh:

[theacefrehley]

There's the video up at niconico.
[ HERE (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm1912950) ]

is it possible to download at niconico? hehe:D

about the manga I have to say it

The raws are terrible

But good job editing there sterling

[Sterling01]

is it possible to download at niconico? hehe:D
Not that I know of

[Klashikari]

KgYr3L9e0dk


雨音
急かすように
再び幕が上がる
疑いの
心はめぐり
試されるさだめと
光 纏うチョウ達が
今 手招く
世界は やがて
出口を閉ざし
鳴呼 愛を迷わせて

嵐が
塗りつぶした
届かぬ悲鳴数え
悲しみの
螺旋辿り
灯された
決意よ
光 揺れるチョウ達は
また狂った
世界の扉
開けて誘う
鳴呼 愛も迷わせ
憂い残された言葉だけ
ただ刻んで
交わした
誓い
果て無き祈り
鳴呼 胸に眠らせて

光 纏うチョウ達が
呼ぶ幻想
世界は壊れ
夜へと隠し
鳴呼 愛が見えない
海に響くあの声たちを
ねえ
返して
はかなき奇跡
幾億の夢
鳴呼 のせて舞い踊れ

Let me know if I got anything wrong.

I think I'm in love already :heh:
I'm already addicted to this song, and it isn't really a good sign XD.

By the way, does anyone know what is its title? I can read 幻想の - Gensou no ??? (??? of Illusion, right?). The last kanji is nearly unreadable.

[Chewy]

I believe the last character is 蝶 (butterfly). I know, the youtube resolution is quite bad. Try watching it on niconico and you should be able to see it clearer.

[Sterling01]

幻想の蝶 (Gensou no Chou)

[Chewy]

Just because it's such an awesome song, here's the karaoke subbed version ;)


4BNS_xOUkHo

EDIT: Reorganized subs a little

[nagare]

is it possible to download at niconico? hehe:D


Yes, there's a couple of ways to do it. Here's two...
My preferred method is using a javascript called "smile DLer"
http://nicopon.jp/

Simply plop it into your browser's bookmark folder and then you can put a shortcut to it on your browser toolbar (should work with IE6+ and Firefox).

To use go to the Nico Video you want to Download (make sure it is the last video you saw, refresh otherwise). The title of the video becomes a textbox which you can copy/cut, next to the title an FLV button will appear, click on that.

Note 1: If you click before the video loads in the browser you can d/l right away but it won't load in the browser. (You can always refresh tho)

Note 2: If you wait until the video loads, make sure it completely finish loading, otherwise you have to wait and sometimes the d/l will time-out if it takes too long.

That may be a bit complicated but that's my preferred method since I can d/l the video in the same browser I'm using.

There's an easier way: Use Craving Explorer
http://www.butsu-yoku.com/

This can d/l videos off YouTube, and NicoNico automatically convert them as one of the following formats: FLV, MPEG, AVI, MP4, WAV, or MP3.

It's still in alpha but it's a good program. It does have some minor issues which annoy me, but it's simple as point and click. You will have to be able to read 動画を保存 and 音声を保存 as that is what you'll need to click to save the videos (save video / save audio respectively).

As for the UMG, I love them. The graphics have powered up a bit :heh:
All the character look so much better! Especially, I think, Battler looks awesome!
lol. I thought that girl who appeared before Eva was Battler (name unreadable) sister!
Rosa looks younger than Jessica in that UMG.


gah... it's been so long since I read chapter 01... when did Kanon pull out the axe/nata?
IIRC didn't he just curse Beatrice for killing Shanon, and then later when Kuma-san was down, got all riled up and open the door to be impaled?

I just can't remember a scene with him or anyone else besides Natsuhi with a weapon...

[Li Jianliang]

幻想の蝶 (Gensou no Chou)幻耀の蝶 (Genyou no Chou).

[Sushi-Y]

gah... it's been so long since I read chapter 01... when did Kanon pull out the axe/nata?
IIRC didn't he just curse Beatrice for killing Shanon, and then later when Kuma-san was down, got all riled up and open the door to be impaled?

I just can't remember a scene with him or anyone else besides Natsuhi with a weapon...

It's when Kanon faced off against Beatrice in the boiler room before his death, I think.
I use the greasemonkey script to dl videos from niconico. www.nicovideon.jp has details (you used to be able to dl a video simply by adding a "n" after nicovideo in the url, but I think the person got tired of running it)

As for the nakanai video, it's the same good stuff. My copy should be on its way soon, and I'm also interested in hearing the other 2 songs in the CD.

ico-san has gotten much better with her drawings over the years. I find her Sean Conn... I mean Kinzou drawing to be quite attractive. And Rosa still pisses me off in the game, but if she looked as moe in the game as she did in this MAD, maybe I wouldn't have been that mad . :heh:

[Sterling01]

I think Sean Connery would be able to play a good Kinzou

Yeah he took out the axe down in the boiler room when he was chasing Beatrice

[Hypertaost]

Just because it's such an awesome song, here's the karaoke subbed version ;)


wow, the pictures look so pretty... If they are ever going to release this game they should get that artist to redo the graphics.

[Li Jianliang]

A better way to convey the meaning of the song title would be saying that the butterflies glow in such a way that you'd think it's an illusion, but I couldn't think of a concise way of putting it in English.

The Glimmering Butterflies
Vocals: Shinra Etsuko
Lyrics: Nakagawa Yusuke

As if hurrying the sound of rain
The curtains rise again
The time of suspicion comes around
With the fate of being tested

The butterflies clad in light now beckon you
The world will close the exit before long
Ah, throwing love astray

Oh, the lit determination-
Count the screams that didn’t reach you
That the storm painted over
And follow the spiral of sadness

The butterflies flickering in the light went crazed again
The door of the world opens and invites you
Ah, love is astray
Simply carve only the words left behind by distress
And let the exchanged vows and endless prayers
Ah, sleep in your chest

The butterflies clad in light summon illusions
The world breaks and hides into the night
Ah, love is invisible
Hey, return those voices echoing in the sea
Let them ride on the fleeting miracle and millions of dreams
Ah, and danceGenyou no Chou
Vocals: Shinra Etsuko

Amaoto sekasu you ni
Futatabi maku ga agaru
Utagai no koro wa meguri
Tamesareru sadame to

Hikari matou chou-tachi ga ima temaneku
Sekai wa yagate deguchi o tozashi
Aa ai o mayowasete

Arashi ga nuritsubushita
Todokanu himei kazoe
Kanashimi no rasen tadori
Tomosareta ketsu i yo

Hikari yureru chou-tachi wa mata kurutta
Sekai no tobira akete izanau
Aa ai mo mayowase
Urei nokosareta kotoba dake tada kizande
Kawashita chikai hatenaki inori
Aa mune ni nemurasete

Hikari matou chou-tachi ga yobu gensou
Sekai wa koware yoru e to kakushi
Aa ai ga mienai
Umi ni hibiku ano koe-tachi o nee kaeshite
Hakanaki kiseki ikuoku no yume
Aa nosete maiodore幻耀の蝶
歌:新良エツ子
作詞:ナカガワユウスケ
作曲:表本裕二
編曲:表本裕二

雨音　急かす様に
再び幕が上がる
疑いの頃はめぐり
試される運命と

光まとう蝶達が　今　手招く
世界はやがて　出口を閉ざし
嗚呼　愛を迷わせて

嵐が塗りつぶした
届かぬ悲鳴かぞえ
哀しみの螺旋たどり
灯された決意よ

光ゆれる蝶達は　また狂った
世界の扉　開けて誘う
嗚呼　愛も迷わせ
憂い残された言葉だけ　ただ刻んで
交した誓い　果て無き祈り
嗚呼　胸に眠らせて

光まとう蝶達が　呼ぶ幻想
世界は壊れ　夜へと隠し
嗚呼　愛が見えない
海に響くあの声たちを　ねえ返して
儚き奇跡　幾億の夢
嗚呼　乗せて舞い踊れ

[kgptzac]

I just played Umineko's chinese translation version and fell in love with it. A lot of reasoning has been posted so I think we can start push teh discussion to a higher dimension: what is the central theme of Umineko? For Higurashi, the theme is for friends to trust and bond with each other, combined with overwhelming will to trigger miracle and win the game; what will be the equavalent in Umineko?

Watching some videos now... I'm gonna post my thoughts in a bit. Before that, some details I missed during the gaming:

How did Kanon die? I think there are descriptions of his arms and knees being cut off =.=| and finally an ice pick was put thru his lung... but when others discover Kanon they didn't say how horrible the scene was... this is rather important because if "scenes showed to player = things actually happened", then they way Kanon was killed can only mean Beatrice or some other supernatural forced killed him... so if anyone remember the deail please enlighten me :P

another thing. how to activate OP2 in game? do i need to go thru the prolouge one more time and the OP will be #2?

[Bokunenjin]

How did Kanon die? I think there are descriptions of his arms and knees being cut off =.=| and finally an ice pick was put thru his lung... but when others discover Kanon they didn't say how horrible the scene was... this is rather important because if "scenes showed to player = things actually happened", then they way Kanon was killed can only mean Beatrice or some other supernatural forced killed him... so if anyone remember the deail please enlighten me :PIt's been a while since I've played episode 1 but didn't he just make that roulette speech and got staked right after. After which he got carried up and later pronounced dead. I can't remember any mention of chopped up body parts.

[Hypertaost]

I just played Umineko's chinese translation version and fell in love with it.

There's a chinese ver?!?!?!?!? :twitch: can you tell me the name or site for it?

[kgptzac]

There's a chinese ver?!?!?!?!? :twitch: can you tell me the name or site for it?

http://www.acgol.cn/bbs/thread.php?fid=121
translation group forum...

It's been a while since I've played episode 1 but didn't he just make that roulette speech and got staked right after. After which he got carried up and later pronounced dead. I can't remember any mention of chopped up body parts.


>.<

that speech is precisely the evidence of he knows more than what game told us... and it's the only full battle we see in game of human vs "the witch/19th person"... there really should be more discussion on the topic imo

[Bokunenjin]

>.<

that speech is precisely the evidence of he knows more than what game told us... and it's the only full battle we see in game of human vs "the witch/19th person"... there really should be more discussion on the topic imo
Kanon being convinced of holding some sort of power within the roulette or at the very least knowing its rules intimately, makes me very excited to know more.
「…………これは、お館様が決めたルールでも、…ましてやお前が決めたルールでもない。………このルールは 僕が作った。………僕は、もう家具じゃない。………お前のルーレットの、ゼロなんだ…！」
「…………………僕はもうお前の言葉に惑わされたりはしない。悪魔のルーレットはこれでおしまいだ。…じ、 ……地獄にてさらに千年、次の召喚者を待つがいい、ベアトリーチェえええぇええぇッ！！！」

[kgptzac]

role-playing the piece on the chessboard; as obeying the Rule set by Kinzo. Shanon dead -> Kanon enraged -> he no longer wishes to play the game set up (at least partly) by Kinzo and tried to revolve against it but failed in the end.

but if to say, all murders are done by human(s), then certainly how Kanon was killed is the biggest obstacle for this explaination. either way this is the strangest murder if not counting Natsuhi ._.

PS: the more i think the more i believe Natsuhi is Beatrice's first victim because according to the epitaph, Natsuhi's death happens after resurrection of the witch. according to the tips... Beatrice can reflect bullets... lol


edit:


it start to feel suspecious after thinking about this a while. Eva argued fericiously about this receipt which supposedly maked Kinzo's study room a closed space. But what can be a right motive for her to slip the receipt in-between the automaticlly door and the door frame in the first place? Does she want to prove that nobody goes out from that room, or more precisely, the door doesn't open the next time they go check on the old man? If I remember it correctly, the first time Natsuhi got her morale boost by talking to Kinzo, they haven't discovered the six bodies thus Eva has no reason to believe Kinzo wasn't in the room. The only way I can think of is, either she made up the receipt story, or she knew, in advance, that Kinzo would disappear in between Natsuhi's visit and their second emergency visit. If it is the latter, I'm afraid Eva knows even about the first murders...

edit 2:

nevermind. I just took at another look at the game and it turn out my grim insight was wrong, Kanon was indeed rewarded with an ice pick and nothing else... It can be done by a human, but that can't explain the glimmering butterflies, unless... i see... everythign fells into the conspircary theory i'm working on right now, very good.

[theacefrehley]

One crucial point nobody ever touched is this line of Rudolf, the night before the massacre

「…………………俺は多分。
………今夜、殺されるだろうな。」


He says he will be killed

How come?

since Rudolf "dies" in both games and has very little screen time, I think he has more than he shows. Our 34-tan had very little screen time in Higurashi too.PS: I didn't finish ep2. yet, but I'm on the side of the ones who don't believe the Witch yet, just like Oyashiro-sama.

[Sterling01]

One crucial point nobody ever touched is this line of Rudolf, the night before the massacre

「…………………俺は多分。
………今夜、殺されるだろうな。」


He says he will be killed

How come?

since Rudolf "dies" in both games and has very little screen time, I think he has more than he shows. Our 34-tan had very little screen time in Higurashi too.PS: I didn't finish ep2. yet, but I'm on the side of the ones who don't believe the Witch yet, just like Oyashiro-sama.

For some reason I find Beatrice to be a badass version of Hanyuu

Since I believe in Beatrice I still think it's her doing and Rudolf says he might be killed not will be killed

@kgptzac: To activate the 2nd op you would of had to unlock the music box and then just click on version b

[kgptzac]

ok i think i gathered enough information to make up my rather arrogant theory.


The golden witch, Beatrice, exists.
yet, 19th person also exists; Beatrice is not the primary murderer.

At first i fell into the reasoning trap of "if Beatrice exist then she must be the killer." But, almost all killing methods are clearly duplicatable by human hands, and various aspects of the game confirmed the existence of glimmering butterflies and ultimately the manifastation of the witch in a woman's form, thus the conclusion of both factors exist.

To fake four of the original 6 bodies, there must be at least three people, a man and two women, were on the island without our knowledge Here's my guess. Krauss, who knew witch's gold has to be somewhere on the island, hired some private agents secretly hoping to find the gold. But after receiving the letter from the alleged Beatrice, Krauss panicked and told his siblings about the existence of gold and his private team; he wanted to work with his siblings toward the same goal. (Kyrie actually told Battler that the family members wanted more property but at the same time, none wanted anybody outside of the family get any money.)

Who delivered the first Beatrice letter to Maria? It was someone (most likely a woman in cosplay) who was unknown to anyone, playing the role of the arbitor, the observer of the game. She has deep enough connection to Kinzo to know his little ritule to conjur up the witch, Beatrice. This person used Kinzo's ring and wrote a letter, cosplaying the witch and gave it to Maria for her to read it after dinner.

For Krauss, the letter had another level of meaning; maybe this is the final chance of finding the gold left by the witch, according to his father's riddle. It is highly likely that Krauss knew even more about Kinzo's financial and personal life except the location of hidden gold. (Kinzo allowed Krauss to keep that piece of gold means Kinzo permitted his son to do some of the things, probably like using his money for his own enterprise.) At night, Krauss moved Kinzo's closest servants were away from the mansion to safeguard his discussion about finidng the gold with his siblings.

It is very likely that Krauss Then, for some reason, a battle broke out between those people, six died, including Shanon for maybe she witnessed the event and were killed as a way silencing her, or, simply joined the fight as a more direct way to die.

The survivers were, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, Kyrie, and Roza. Krauss, Gouda, Shanon, and three of Krauss's agents died. Afterward, the 19th person sent them a message. In the message she threatens them either with their crime to be report to the police, or safety of their children back in the hotel, so Rudolf and others decided to listen to this mysterious person; since she promised them that do what she said, they will obtain Beatrice's gold.

One of the things the 19th person requested was to to cover up that Krauss's agents ever existed; maybe to her, those who were not worthy to be on the island needed to be purged. Therefore, maybe because of body size or they were visiblely injured during the fight, Rudolf, Kyrie, and Roza decide to fake their death, smashing up faces of the agents. Krauss and Shanon's faces were only half-destroyed in order to reduce suspision; I think Gouda's had least chance of survival since he was loyal to Krauss, not to Rudolf. Therefore his broken face might be another diverting method.

With Kyrie and Eva's help, it's easy to create an image of a closed space mass murder took place in a storage room. Eva and Hideyoshi returned to the hotel to make sure everybody else was in their supposed place.

Then, the 19th person notified Kinzo of six deaths on the island. The question becomes, is Kinzo some sort of enemy boss, or is he just a blinded believer of her witch who were being manipulated as everyone else? It really depends on, who wrote the "poem" under the giant Beatrice portrait because people die according to the pattern written in that poem. Whichever way it is, Kinzo knew the roulette started to turn. Whichever way he felt about the death of his oldest son, he wasn't afraid. When he said encouraging words to Natsuhi, maybe it was a way pass on his acceptance and congratulations to her for her not being dead at that moment.

During the second day, Eva had strong suspicion about Natsuhi, the only "surviving" female member of the generation, to be the 19th person. Eva also wanted to know what kind of role did Kinzo play in the whole, so she sneaked upstairs and marked the door with her receipt. When it turned out the old man evaporated from hsi study after finding the bodies, her suspicion grew stronger.

I think there should be secret passage that links Kinzo's room to the place he hides the witch's gold. The secret passage actually should be the only way of getting in whatever place that stored the gold.

About Rudolf predicted his possible death... Turn the chess board around and look at the whole picture: if Rudolf planned fake his own death, isn't the last thing he would do was to announce his death in advance? Therefore, it is safe to assume that Rudolf only sensed some kind of danger after talking with Krauss; most likely would be Krauss's seriousness toward the deaths foretold by the riddle.

The rest would be easy. Either the 19th person hiding in Eva and Hideyoshi's room waiting for them or knocking the door to get in. If Hideyoshi was taking a bath it was way too easy to shoot ice picks at their heads. If I remember things correctly, the chain is not a reliable proof of a enclosed room because there are several ways to fake it. It is also possible for Kinzo to come and kill the couple with an ice pick shooter... although I don't his health permits it. It also could have been any other Ushiromiya...

Whoever died in the furnace, if not Kinzo himself, was very likly to have met with him to take his key to the study room. My best guess still is Roza. For whateve reason, the 19th person killed her with ice pick shooter. It couldn't be Rudolf because Battler would know his dad had 6 toes. Since Jessica had no reaction to the toes, then it's safe to assume the corpse was not be Krauss (recycled, lol). Maybe Maria knew her mother had 6 toes, but it doesn't surprise anyone that she did not speak up. Of coures the body can even be some unknown Ushiromiya relative.

About Kanon's death there are several interesting clues. First, it is almost 100% true that some human first close the door from inside that drew Kanon into the furnace room, and then was seen escaping from the other door into inner court yard by Battler. Beatrice the witch also appeared here, but what really killed Kanon was whoever hiding in the shadow shooting ice pick at him... so Beatrice showed herself in butterfly form only to react to Kanon's speech about roulette. The killer is most likely to be the 19th person, again, executing the living according to the epitaph.

However, even Beatrice can't get pass the scorpion seal engraved on Kinzo's study room's doorbell, nor the 19th person could break in the metal door and face Natsuhi's shotgun. The last letter which mysteriously appeared on the desk inside the room is almost certainly the work of Maria. The effect of the letter should be to scare the people inside so they may have second thought on continuing to hide. But don't forget there are still three people that are not in the safe area to complete killing on the riddle, Rudolf, Kyrie and Kinzo.

About Maria... she's an accomplice no doubt, however because she's too young, it's very easy to deceive her. Her split personality makes her appear to be creepy worked in favor of the 19th person.

Anyway, the 19th person killed Nanjo, Genji, and Kumasawa in the living room; she spared Maria because the ritual is complete and Beatrice could take physical form again to reappear in this world... as a woman, not just butterflies -,- The 19th person left a message to Natsuhi so she can try shoot at the real witch and get bullet reflect in the face.

The nineth night, the witch resurrects, and no one survives.

In the end of the game it gave me an impression that the last four survivors were cut into meat juice by the witch and were revived in the golden land. Whatever happened there doesn't relate to this world anymore. And the witch will no longer influnce this world because someone already reach the golden land.

Who are the biggest winner? the 19th person got what she wanted; resurrection of the witch. Provided there was an identity shift and the old man did not die, Rudolf, Kyrie and Kinzo were left alive. Here's the real question, what Kinzo really wanted? The smile of Beatrice; it is vauge. Maybe he just wanted to see the witch, but I don't think the witch took him into her golden land and smile at him... so... he lived for nothing. By default, Rudolf couple should have gotten the gold, although there's no description about that whatsoever.

[theacefrehley]

ok i think i gathered enough information to make up my rather arrogant theory.
For some reason I find Beatrice to be a badass version of Hanyuu
The rest would be easy. Either the 19th person hiding in Eva and Hideyoshi's room waiting for them or knocking the door to get in. If Hideyoshi was taking a bath it was way too easy to shoot ice picks at their heads. If I remember things correctly, the chain is not a reliable proof of a enclosed room because there are several ways to fake it. It is also possible for Kinzo to come and kill the couple with an ice pick shooter... although I don't his health permits it. It also could have been any other Ushiromiya...

Your theory makes sense
But
That part definitely doesn't
They, mainly Battler, insist that the chain IS a reliable way to make an enclosed space

And besides,
If I'm not mistaken, Genji supervised the construction of the mansion and until the end he said there's no secret passage.

I think that by the situation they were in the last 2 chapters, if he really knew a secret passage, he would blurt it out already. It was obvious that someone was out there killing everybody. Unless he believed he would be spared


But your theory leaves room for lots of combinations in future chapters since there are no murderers-wannabe inside the family at first arriving in the island



Since I believe in Beatrice I still think it's her doing and Rudolf says he might be killed not will be killed


Whatever,
It doesn't make any difference
It just implies that Rudolf is up to/on something

[kgptzac]

"For some reason I find Beatrice to be a badass version of Hanyuu"

o.o I don't think it was me who said that lol. Anyway, Battler did try to deny it was the witch's doing at the end of 1st tea party and said "you can find a way to do this trick if you go out and buy some detective novels", which I still clearly remember.

I don't know what other background information about the servants and what they knew and what they are not telling... Nanjo did suspect Genji consider himself outside of the entire affair at one point, and seeing Genji's reaction to most of the stuff, I think he and rest of the servants were withholding information...


Maybe it'll turn out that Rudolf and Kirie to be some sort of final boss haha :heh:

[theacefrehley]

"For some reason I find Beatrice to be a badass version of Hanyuu"

o.o I don't think it was me who said that lol. Anyway, Battler did try to deny it was the witch's doing at the end of 1st tea party and said "you can find a way to do this trick if you go out and buy some detective novels", which I still clearly remember.

I don't know what other background information about the servants and what they knew and what they are not telling... Nanjo did suspect Genji consider himself outside of the entire affair at one point, and seeing Genji's reaction to most of the stuff, I think he and rest of the servants were withholding information...


Maybe it'll turn out that Rudolf and Kirie to be some sort of final boss haha :heh:


My bad
I messed the quotes

I remember that part of the tea party
But Battler was mocked for giving that excuse

I'm not an expert on detective novel stuff, but on the few novels I read I never came across a case with a closed-space made with a door chain, so I cannot speculate how to defeat that "secret room"

I even considered the possibility of murder+suicide in that room
that would solve the case, the only thing left is the reason for the murder+suicide :heh::heh::heh::heh:

[kgptzac]

Eva's body was found on the bed, and she was wearing shoes. I think it was hinting that she was killed not on bed but was standing up or something. Either she fell on the bed or the killer put her body on the bed... There was no motive, we saw Eva and Hideyoshi were love-love just before perspective left them...

I want that ice pick shooting device ;_; it must be a Doraemon item!

[Hypertaost]

Don't hate me for this, but Maria's "U-- U--" kind of gets on my nerves.

Yep, and since her expressions are so ugly, she is officially my least favorite female character. What I don't understand is why all those companies with awesome writers doesn't hire new artists. My opinion is that once most of the fan art looks better than the orginal, the artist needs to be changes. The only problem is that they don't seem to agree with me. Ah, but the story is strangely addicting and the music's great! I'm really glad I got this.

For instance, after Kanon and Air, I'm sure that Key had enough money to get a new artist, but nooo... they just had to stick with the weridly disfigured characters for clannad. Don't get me wrong, I love Clannad, and the character designs are adorable, but the cg in the game... shudder... I mean comon! they look so werid! and it seems that she can't draw people sideways, so EVERY SINGLE KISS SCENE LOOKS WERID. but since the design IS adorable, clannad the anime is like a dream come true for me.... all that eyecandy..... Similar things happened with typemoon, but I actually perfer the game cg over the anime, even if the anime soundtrack is a whole lot better the game one... It seems that these games are either lacking in pretty pictures, good music, or intresting storyline... for Higurashi, the characters looks so strange that I'm actually thinking of redrawing the characters myself and repacking that into arc.nsa or at least get the ps2 images in there... But I have to admit, with the storyline being so intresting the character designs actually grow on you after a while... but maria is still ugly, even if her outfit is one of the most adorable I've ever seen...

This is just my opinion, please don't feel offended or anything

[Sterling01]

Umineko and Higurashi are called Sound Novels meaning the mood is set with the music not the artwork.

Also I find Ryukishi07's (he's also the writer) character artwork to be very moe

[Hypertaost]

What does moe mean?
I mean, I've come across a lot of mentioning of that word in the past few years, but I just don't understna dwhat that is.

Ah...my posts are getting more and more off topic............

[Sterling01]

Moe (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=539041&postcount=23): a Definition by kj1980

[yangxu]

I actually like this story more than Higurashi, the reasoning and logic behind it are fun to mess around with. While ryukishi07 writes superb stories, I personally think he needs to hire an artist for his games, the manga version's character design looks much better IMO.

[yangxu]

Your theory makes sense

And besides,
If I'm not mistaken, Genji supervised the construction of the mansion and until the end he said there's no secret passage.

I think that by the situation they were in the last 2 chapters, if he really knew a secret passage, he would blurt it out already. It was obvious that someone was out there killing everybody. Unless he believed he would be spared


If Kinzo ordered him not to say anything about any secret rooms, as a loyal servant who's only role is to repay Kinzo's kindness, Genji will probably remain silent till his death. And if Kinzo continuously blabs about his willingness to sacrifice anything in exchange to see Beatrice's smile again, with Genji standing besides him, I believe Genji should be cunning enough to realize what's about to come, especially with all the black magics his master has been practicing.

It seems that when Krauss showed his wife the piece of gold he found, the room they stayed in at that time was a secret room; based on this alone, Genji must've been lying to everybody else. While I'm not really a fan of Conan and his "there must be a secret room somewhere", I believe certain things in this game can only be explained using secret rooms.

[kj1980]

Yep, and since her expressions are so ugly, she is officially my least favorite female character. What I don't understand is why all those companies with awesome writers doesn't hire new artists. My opinion is that once most of the fan art looks better than the orginal, the artist needs to be changes. The only problem is that they don't seem to agree with me. Ah, but the story is strangely addicting and the music's great! I'm really glad I got this.

A. 07th Expansion is a doujin group, not a company
B. The writer and artist is the same person for 07th Expansion: Ryukishi07
C. Ryukishi's art work maybe annoying at first, but strangely it begins to grow upon you until you come to accept that Higurashi (or Umineko) isn't Higurashi (or Umineko) without Ryukishi's artwork wwwww

[Sterling01]

Also Ryukishi like other artists IMO has gotten better.....

[Hypertaost]

C. Ryukishi's art work maybe annoying at first, but strangely it begins to grow upon you until you come to accept that Higurashi (or Umineko) isn't Higurashi (or Umineko) without Ryukishi's artwork wwwww

Yes I agree with that fact. Somehow They just kind of grab a hold of you. The only problem is that I like all the character designs besides Maria's face and Roza's hair. It's like watching one of Hayao Miyazaki's films. I love his stories and the music is soooo gorgeous and the animation is slick and really good, but the way the character's faces look just dosen't appeal to me. I'm a fan of big dewey eyes XD, that's just the way I am. This is one of the reasons that I love the Motion Graphics so much because you can see the characters is a diffrent way with them presented in a way that really appeals to me. Besides, since this IS a sound novel after all, I guess a little complaint by someone who loves shoujo art should be okay right? I mean, I do like the characters and the way the story builds them and Ryukishi's clothing designs really appeal to me, but I just don't like Maria's face....

[kgptzac]

solution: read manga and burn the character designs from the manga to your head, then project the image while you play the game. It worked for me. =3=

[Sushi-Y]

Also Ryukishi like other artists IMO has gotten better.....
I dunno... I found Higurashi's characters much more attractive in general. Regardless of the quality of Ryukishi's drawings, I found Umineko's adult cast to be nicely designed as well. The young ones, however, felt... odd. George didn't have the "oomph" of a main character, Battler's personality felt a little too extreme to be the "player" character, Jessica's outfit looks odd to me, Maria is straddling on the line between mysterious moe loli and annoying brat, and Shanon and Kanon should have swapped places (like those fanarts in the picture thread).

The adult cast is far more likable for me. My favorite characters even now are found among the adults, such as Natsuhi, Genji, and Kouda. Although I must admit that even some of the adults get on my nerves a lot, like Eva, Rosa, and Kinzou.

[kgptzac]

I agree, I totally like the adults over the children. I got impressed first at their verbal battle over Kinzo's property, then their reactions to the first deaths, and at last Genji and especially Natsuhi till the end (allow me to call her お母様 >.<)

I hope in the next few episodes the young ones will do something interesting other than trying to think out who's the killer and keep watching ppl around them die.

[Sterling01]

My favorite characters so far are Battler for his Personality, Beatrice for her attitude and interactions with Battler and Kouda because his just a awesome butler

[kgptzac]

I forgot where I saw this theory about the rifle... It can be modified to shoot bullets from the back, which can explained Natsuhi's suicide (ouch...) and perhap also Eva's seemingly reckless taunting... I really doubted Eva is kind of person who would let her emotion run uncheck to a degree of in danger of being shot.

[Rias]

An enclosed room always have some sort of trick to it, and the chained enclosed room is one of the classics. First I make 2 hypothesis.
1. The windows forms a complete "wall". That is, they cannot be closed and locked from the outside.
2. No secret doorway/trap doors that can let the culprit escape.

Problem 1: it's impossible to shoot both Eva and Hideyoshi thru the gap formed by the chain.

Getting into the room isn't hard, as explained in the story. There are spare keys, or Eva/Hideyoshi could've let the person in for whatever reason.

Problem 2: Escaping from an enclosed room.

I can think of two solutions for that.
1. They never said a person couldn't fit thru the gap. Door + Chain just made people thought it was impossible to do so. (Okay kinda farfetched)
2. The murderer was still hiding in the room when everyone stormed in (drawing from Battler's "Ginzo was hiding under the bed" theory). The murderer just walks out after everyone is gone. Since the chain is cut, there's no trouble getting out as the murderer doesn't need to make the room "enclosed" anymore.

[theacefrehley]

An enclosed room always have some sort of trick to it, and the chained enclosed room is one of the classics. First I make 2 hypothesis.
1. The windows forms a complete "wall". That is, they cannot be closed and locked from the outside.
2. No secret doorway/trap doors that can let the culprit escape.

Problem 1: it's impossible to shoot both Eva and Hideyoshi thru the gap formed by the chain.

Getting into the room isn't hard, as explained in the story. There are spare keys, or Eva/Hideyoshi could've let the person in for whatever reason.

Problem 2: Escaping from an enclosed room.

I can think of two solutions for that.
1. They never said a person couldn't fit thru the gap. Door + Chain just made people thought it was impossible to do so. (Okay kinda farfetched)
2. The murderer was still hiding in the room when everyone stormed in (drawing from Battler's "Ginzo was hiding under the bed" theory). The murderer just walks out after everyone is gone. Since the chain is cut, there's no trouble getting out as the murderer doesn't need to make the room "enclosed" anymore.


Your theory (part 2) makes sense but there's the fact that right after everyone leaves the room, there's the boiler room incident, and there were signs of someone running from there (in the novel it's lots of reading, but I guess it all doesn't last more than a few minutes)

But it would be not a problem at all if the criminal(s) is more than one person (Yamainu has landed in Rokkenjima)

[Hypertaost]

solution: read manga and burn the character designs from the manga to your head, then project the image while you play the game. It worked for me. =3=

Ah, I recently got the first 2 chapters of the manga and I have to say that Shannon looks really adorable!

By the way, can anyone give me a translation of the menu of the music box?

[Rias]

Your theory (part 2) makes sense but there's the fact that right after everyone leaves the room, there's the boiler room incident, and there were signs of someone running from there (in the novel it's lots of reading, but I guess it all doesn't last more than a few minutes)

But it would be not a problem at all if the criminal(s) is more than one person (Yamainu has landed in Rokkenjima)

Question is, could the culprit reach the back door of the boiler room (from the room) before Kanon + Kumasawa showed up thru the front door? Since it was never mentioned in the story regarding the distance, it's hard to say. Drawing from Kyrie's 18 people theory, it's "possible becuase it hasn't been proven impossible"

[Nabiki Asakura]

Could someone please translate umineko episode 1 tips? i'm from brazil and i dont know japanese i0i. A friend tried to play umineko but she didn't understand a few thing... I wanna know the tips, what does beatrice says in tea party and who gave that bracelet to jessica... (oh, and...Jessica really had something with Kanon?;D)

[Nabiki Asakura]

Sorry XD
The tea party from episode 1, please. i just play(played?Sorry, bad english) one episode.



In Brazil, nobody translate more than 4 chapters from Umineko. I didn't find in english too _ _"

[Sterling01]

There 2 tea parties from episode 1

The one with Battler and Beatrice arguing

and the hidden one with Bernkastel and Beatrice

[Nabiki Asakura]

edit: ok, i don't understand the two. Please, tell me what happen in the two tea party - _'

[Rias]

Quick Summary, Tea Party ep1

-All the young cast member shows up and have tea and talks about the various events/mysteries
-Everyone besides Battler argues that the 19th person is the witch Beatrice and only ebcause of her that the mysteries were possible
-Battler is confused as to why everyone suddenly are firm believers of the witch, and argues with them
-As they were arguing, the Golden Witch, Beatrice, shows up.
-Battler is surpised by that while everyone else offers their praises
-Battler also refuses to believe in the witch. Beatrice finds Battler interesting and claims that she wants to make Battler surrender his will to her.
-Beatrice teleports everyone to the corridor outside the enclosed room of Eva and Hideyoshi. After Battler fails to prove how he could've killed Eva and Hideyoshi, Beatrice proceeds with her way to do it: she summons her underlings and they just enters the room and does the job
-Battler finds it absurd, and Beatrice brings them back to the tea room
-All of a sudden, Kanon, Shannon, George and Jessica dies, one by one, according to the way they were killed in the story.
-Beatrice claims that, although she has revived them, as long as there's on non-believer, her power isn't "real"
-Battler gets mad, and decides to battle with Beatrice. He believes that no matter what the circumstance is, it can be explained that it's works of humans.
-Beatrice is amused, and asks him how he could prove the main mysteries in ep1:
1. Maria's letter
2. Method of murder of the six
3. Rose garden's gate
4. The seal on the envelopes
5. Enclosed room with chain
6. Kanon in boiler room
7. Genji, Kumasawa, Nanjo's death
8. Natsuhi's suicide
9. The treasure riddle
10. Where the treasure is




Hidden Room

Berkenstal is having tea with Beatrice. Berkenstal claims that she's not here to interfere with her. She claims that she's powerless in front of a witch that can "kill someone an infinite time". Beatrice doesn't think so, as she knows that Berkenstal has defeated LambdaDelta. Berkenstal claims that she's only here to escape the kakera-world as she heard things were getting interesting with Beatrice. She also express that because of their respective powers, Beatrice is not someone she has a chance winning against...it's different if it's LambdaDelta. Not wanting to bore Berkenstal anymore, Beatrice leaves to prepare the next chessboard. Berkenstal leaves the players with some hints. She wants you to understand that, even though she gave you the hints, she's not there to help you. She only wants the story to be interesting.

[Nabiki Asakura]

Thanks, rias =D

Like I said, we, brazilians, can't read japanese so we can't understand a lot of things. I played the game, but I just see the images *_ _"*
I know i'm so bored to you, americans, but the people in my Higurashi fórum are confused about all the game >XDDDDDDD



Berkenstal leaves the players with some hints. can you tell me the hints, please?._.

[theacefrehley]

Thanks, rias =D

Like I said, we, brazilians, can't read japanese so we can't understand a lot of things. I played the game, but I just see the images *_ _"*
I know i'm so bored to you, americans, but the people in my Higurashi fórum are confused about all the game >XDDDDDDD



can you tell me the hints, please?._.

I translated the whole game in the former hinamizawa club forums but the translation is rather crappy
if you are interested PM and I'll send the scripts

Eu traduzi o jogo todo no finado forum hinamizawa club mas a tradução está bem tosca
Se estiver interessada, manda uma PM e eu mando os scripts

[Tejcha]

I translated the whole game in the former hinamizawa club forums but the translation is rather crappy
if you are interested PM and I'll send the scripts

Eu traduzi o jogo todo no finado forum hinamizawa club mas a tradução está bem tosca
Se estiver interessada, manda uma PM e eu mando os scripts
Can you please send them to me too?

hinamizawa club and the rokkenjima translation site just don't want to open..no idea why

[Sterling01]

I translated the whole game in the former hinamizawa club forums but the translation is rather crappy
if you are interested PM and I'll send the scripts

Eu traduzi o jogo todo no finado forum hinamizawa club mas a tradução está bem tosca
Se estiver interessada, manda uma PM e eu mando os scripts
Well Your translation does get the main points across and the later chapters are much better done

[Varion]

Can you please send them to me too?

hinamizawa club and the rokkenjima translation site just don't want to open..no idea why
I dunno what's up with Rokkenjima, but Hinamizawa Club was hosted by Visualnews, which first had hosting problems and then the administrator disappeared, so who knows when that's coming back. Which is a shame, I kinda miss it.

And yeah, ace's translation is enough to get most everything across, particularly when the other alternative is not to read it at all. No idea how the editing is going. I'd be happy to read an episode 2 translation if he was to do one, that's for sure.

[Dreamiel]

I've read the threads disscussing the secret tea party and about how there are two witches messing around and that's what is controlling Higurashi. Can I just say, is any one else confused out of thier flippin' mind?? Also, i'd like to show my support to any one trying to english patch this game ^____^.

[Klashikari]

Finally finished the proofreading while discovering and enjoying the game.

The plot was astonishingly thrilling. I wasn't expecting a pace like this, especially that the plot itself doesn't span more than 48 hours for the characters.
Hence I was expecting that it would be rather hard to be empathic towards the characters but I was proven wrong.


I was really disappointed that Rudolf and Kyrie "died" (since I still have doubt about that), along with Shannon, though I sure was enjoying with glee to see Krauss and Gohda eliminated from the start.

Eva was "working as intended": cunning, sly and playful. She gave me many Takano vibes, though she didn't have a trademark trait (something like Takano's laugh). I must say that she irritated me with her riddles and how she "bullied" Natsuhi, but I must admit she was quite the "meanie greedy" sibling required in the pack.

Hideyoshi, however, was the breath of air required for the family. I wouldn't imagine the plotif he was as greedy as the siblings to be honest. His "negociator" skills and fatherly aura was quite important, hence a tragic effect on the kids. I feel it is a bit disappointing that Battler wasn't mourning more about hideyoshi, because he was seriously the closest adult character to him aside of Kyrie and in some extent, Rudolf.

Rosa was... well, it is difficult to judge. Her mother duty is quite difficult and Maria is nowhere as easy as she might look first. But her role seems more stretched, as the story is implying.

Natsuhi was... frankly the best adult character IMO. She was tortured, trampled, but she still kept her head high and straight. It was quite heartwarming that she was recognized by Kinzo, while Krauss was utterly inconsiderate (though he "might" have been deceiving her with a false boredom). With her shotgun, she was really heroic as a mother and all. Her first impression gave in the game was quickly wiped away, i was glad of it.

I was kinda annoyed by Kinzo's madness. But much like most characters, after what Genji said, it was kinda something understandable, though i feel sorry for the grandma :heh:
Speaking of Genji, he was quite the man as a butler, it is a shame he was a "butler" in the very end, without displaying much "humanity".

OTOH, Kanon was really a character who grew on me, with Shannon as well. Being stuck in his role as a chesspiece, he was quite the tragic character, but his final scene was... well "cool" like Battler said. Shannon was just sadly removed from the play quite early, Poor George.

The kids weren't as brilliant as the Higurashi cast, but that's mainly because they didn't have much time to shine (Jessica was nice with the pendant, but she was quite the "brat" during the whole game. George was nice and fluffy, but lacked of impact, aside of his searing hatred when his parents died). except Battler who was a Keiichi MK2. Not as "action" as K1, Battler is sure THE guy in the cast and even if he is cornered by the utter difficulty to prove that beatrice does not exist, he keeps his thoughts straight.

Maria is... well a complete mystery. She was quite moe first, but her personality shift was so freaky and creepy that it didn't have Rena's "sexyness" :heh:
But she was sure an oppressive existence, especially with her Kihihihihi and her "shadowed" silouhette.
My favourites characters for the moment: Battler > Natsuhi > Kanon/Shannon > Hideyoshi > Kyrie


As for the music... I didn't expect dai to give such peaceful and noble tones. Hope(ver1.00) is definitely the new "you", and I hope he will keep this track as the emblematic "flag" for umineko.
The creep musics were working like mad. I felt many shivers (though playing around midnight sure increases this effect as well). But the "action" and chaotic tracks were marverlous.
The last scene in chapter 14 was probably my favourite one. The whole thing was almost surreal. Natsuhi with "that", everyone's thoughts in wreck. Really, システム零 by －４５ was one of my top favourite track. Chaotic, impending doom and desperate crisis were nicely transcripted with it. Other tracks like nighteyes were nailing the theatral and plot twist scenes as well.

What else...? Nothing much aside that the plot was quite challening and extremely interesting despite the slow and slightly bland start (i was expecting sufficient characters interactions of the start, but the main dish quickly arrived anyway). Much like everyone, many points were quite curious, and pointing them was quite enjoyable



The first important thing to know is most likely like in Higurashi: What are the motives of the culprit(s)?
Whatever their identity, it is difficult to figure out the sense without tracing out the motive.

As some people already mentioned, "finding the hidden gold" seems too easy or rather inconsistent. Why using such fancy methods? Why trying to revive the "witch" ?
Finding the gold wouldn't make sense... waiting patiently the end of the family meeting would most likely avoid having rival or unecessary issues with the police, until the culprit(s) knew they wouldn't be able to be found/exposed afterwards.

Getting their hands on the gold requiring this slaughter? It is very hard until they want to cover themselves (aka the fake death theory) and using that fantasy inscription of kinzo about the witch.
That's fine and dandy and most people know that gold does exist. Now the problem is how to find it after this slaughter...?

As Sushi-y said, I can't decently think Rudolf, Kyrie and Rosa would make such play as they would have difficulty to use that gold if they are "dead".
But it is quite weird indeed that Rudolf expected to be killed first, and was found out faceless, along with kyrie and rosa.

Let's try to retrace the firts night:

Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, Kyrie and Rosa were "friendly" talking about the family assets. Gohda was in the manoir side during the night shift, awaiting orders. Shannon was also in the manoir, as she wanted to give a help, though krauss booted Kinzo's "minions".

After a little while, Natsuhi decided to withdraw from this predicament.
Around midnight, Eva and Hideyoshi left as well, leaving then the 6 victims. the problem is then the gap between that event, and when everyone else woke up.
As the characters explained, either the culprit isn't alone, or he/they killed them with an indirect approach such like poison.

The problem with the indirect approach would be how Gohda and Shannon were killed. I believe the brutal brawl would be more logical... a commotion would naturally attract the servants, especially Shannon who avoided the living room on purpose, as she might appeal krauss' wrath. However, we might also consider that shannon was attacked when she was alone as well. The time of death would be quite the decisive clue, because it would determine somehow the type of assault.

Krauss obviously was silenced because he knew about the gold... what is surprising is why they didn't demolished krauss' entire face, so he might be suspicious. Eva, Rudolf and Rosa thought that Krauss found already the gold or knew it was somewhere in the island, hence he was trying to take the control, to secure the access to the gold. That's why he is the prime suspect in term of "gold treasure hunting supervisor"... Hence, after what he showed to natsuhi, I believe kgptzac's theory is quite solid: after the beatrice's letter, Krauss was in complete jeopardy, because someone else aside or within the cast knew about the gold for real. Hence, instead of losing completely his loot, he would prefer to rally the siblings even if the mastermind is within them so he could at least have a piece of the cake.

That's why it is weird that Krauss wasn't peeled off completely... Until it is what the culprit wants: yet another person. If the characters could even think about fake death trick, it wouldn't be surprising for the said culprit to stirr animosity within the cast rank if he eliminate cleanly the principal suspect.

Now for Rudolf, Rosa and Kyrie's case, it is troublesome because it would be difficult for them to harvest the gold if they are considered dead. They should be left aside for the moments, though indeed, the weirdest person among the 6 first victims is without a doubt Rosa.

Now, for Kinzo, what was actually surprising is the sixth toe. Granted, it is sure an innate malformation, but... why leaving such clue if the corpse was so burnt that it was impossible to even recognize the gender?
I don't think it was for the sole purpose to draw someone out, because the door noise would be good enough. Rather, it seems like this incident was kinda a possibility for the cast to discover this corpse.

Hence, I wonder if the culprit(s) didn't WANT them to consider that corpse as Kinzo and no one else. As demonstrated before, it is very unlikely the culprit(s) could recycle some corpses. Even with a master key, it doesn't change the fact that jessica/natsuhi and Battler didn't react with the sixth toe. So Rudolf and Krauss don't have that physical trait. It is thene xtremely unlikely that it was any of the rest of the corpse.
However, I agree that he might be kinzo's relative as it is hereditary. But that play is way too fancy and way too scripted to be really kinzo.

As for Kanon's death, it was particularly special. The culprit KNEW that kanon was alone. The culprit prepared the "wrath" stake in pupose as well.
Personally, I suspect that a "spy" was observing the cast getting caught off guard by Eva's and Hideyoshi's deaths. Hence, I expect that the observer contacted the accomplice through radio to slam the boiler room door, to draw someone out. If they were too many, it would ruin the "ritual", hence the Killer would be contacted if they are too many during the mad rush, escaping from the backdoor towards the courtyard.

Considering the theatral show is important (It looks like a RULE), it is quite definite for me that the culprit is not alone in that mad slaughter.


Now.. let's see the "odd" events:
-Maria's letter:
As long as we allow a 19th person among the culprits, there isn't any problem to consider that a woman was able to cosplay that.

-Method of murder of the six
Not sure if it is that a "mystery" until the culprit is proved to be alone.

-Storeroom of the rose garden
It seems that the culprit has a master key. I don't even think it is weird to speculate that the culprit(s) can lockpick a padlock or so.

-the wax seal of the envelopes
If kinzo is related to this scheme, it is possible that he deliberately threw the ring to a place the accomplices planned before.
Kinzo isn't related to this, it means they were expecting Kinzo to do that, ot they might have duplicated that.

-Enclosed room with chain
The culprit most likely entered "normally": knocking the door, and Eva letting pass...
If we speculate that Eva was among the culprits, it wouldn't be surprising because there are still enough sacrifice: Battler and Jessica can be sacrificed. However, we might speculate the culprit had another agenda and killed them.

It would be unlikely that Eva would let a person different from the survivors to enter if they weren't accomplices (until the culprit is indeed one of the 18 or survivors, but I can't think a way it is possible). Hence if she isn't among the culprits, it is possible that the murderer simply undid the chain door.
1) First method: in the normal way: simply using a mechanical arm or even its own arm to reach the chain and unlock. They said that gap was 10cm. I don't even think it is that stretchy to think the culprit could reach that, then storming in the room, killing Eva and Hideyoshi

2) second method: destroying the chain and replace. What surprised me was how Kanon could cut the chain easely. I know pliers are quite strong, but kanon doesn't have much strength to begin with. If the culprit prepared this death for some hours, it might be possible for him/them to replace the chain.

Now, how they left the room. I think the biggest and most logical way is the culprit simply didn't leave the room (except if they used the first method and could redo that, but it seems hell harder), crawled under the bed or something of the same genre.

Now, this mystery can be solved with the usual "hidden secret door" or something. Even if Genji stated there isn't such thing in Kinzo's study, it might be the case in other rooms of the manoir. But it seems to be the "too convenient" explanation.

-kanon in boiler room:
As I explained before, I do think it is a cooperative work to kill him. The problem is the butterfly... well it might be a simple trick with some random lights around. We don't know Kanon's state of mind in a neutral point of view, hence it might be something distorded in his mind, because of his rage.

-Genji, Kumasawa, Nanjou death
This is most likely very troublesome point, because there weren't any reason to destroy their face, until they are suspicious... or if the culprits want to make them suspicious.
What actually surprised me was "sloth" sin was assigned to Nanjou. Does it mean that he didn't do his proper job as a doctor? As hinted by Battler, it might be possible that the doctor was on the enemy's side from the beginning, confusing the time of death etc.
As for Genji, it is extremely difficult to judge him with his actions, while Kumasawa is completely innocent I believe, as she had an alibi, even for kanon (thanks for our 3rd perspective).

-Natsuhi's suicide:
There is no way Natsuhi would do that considering her temper and pride. As result, I think the trick is:
1) The enemy "hypnotized" or shocked her to the point she really killed herself. it is kinda unlikely, but the butterflies might have distracted her, making her vulnerable.
2) The enemy used the SAME weapon and was faster. As the kids were running like mad, it is possible that the culprit switched both winchester rifles, so it looks like Natsuhi killed herself.


As for the riddle and the location of the gold, i don't exactly think they are relevant without the motive and the culprit(s) identity

Seriously, it was really a great story to follow, and I'm quite glad there was such translation (thanks again theacefrehley).
I hope the patch project will conclude positively for us, as it would be a shame to miss this gem because of the language barrier. (seriously, BUY THIS GAME)

Currently, the proofreading is somewhat complete, though The text need to be checked several times with people having japanese knowledge, as I could obviously not changed some approximations/mistakes.
That said, I'm waiting for Sterling01 to edit the pictures.

As a little announcement: we are currently in dire need of someone who can manipulate and code with ONscripter. If you think you are fitting for this job, please send a PM to sterling01 or myself. That would accelerate greatly the progress of this project.

[Elvin]

I can help edit ep 2 if you need it ~(-3-)~

[Rias]

Umineko Character Popularity Contest No.2 at 07th Expansion:

http://when-they-cry.net/Cgi/vote/umi2/top.jpg


http://when-they-cry.net/Cgi/vote/umi2/votec.cgi

[Hypertaost]

I am a big fan of mysteries and one day I dug up an old book of mine that had stories in it involving an closed room murder. I think that these theories might help solve the mystery of eva's death. There were 2 methods used to close the chains.
1. use a wire with a magnet attached to the end. Since chain locks are designed to have some space so one can open and close it easily, it is actually possible to be able to close the door that way.
2. replace the chain. There are some kind of special metal that alters its shape when heated and reverts back after being cooled. I'm not sure if this kind of metal actually exists but with science the way it is that is quite likely.
another theory is that the culprit had some way of closing the window from the outside, but I don't have any idea how that could be done
Of course, there's still the problem of how they were killed and by whom. At this point I'm thinking that maybe they were killed with poison and had the ice pick stuck to them after they were dead.

[Elvin]

Hypertoast, you should have put your post in a spoiler tag

I say it was the witch :D

[Rias]

Trying to answer Beatrice's questions from the tea party is good and all, but there's one thing that always bugged me:


The content of the letter that made Natsuhi ran outside with her shotgun in the end.

After everyone besides the younger group and Natsuhi died, she should feel the most responsible to keep everyone alive. However, something made her abandon even her own daughter, to run outside to confront something. She ran outside and barricaded the younger group in the living room. That can be seen as Natsuhi trying to keep them somewhat safe, but considering that the culprit is roaming around outside, it's probably an act to keep the younger group from following her.


Speculation:

1. Something to do with the location of the hidden gold. A secret that she can't let others know about.
-To her, it's something that only Krauss, herself and Ginzo should know about. Krauss is dead for sure, there are doubts that Ginzo maybe not really be dead, but Natsuhi was the one who disagreed with that theory. A threat to the inhertiance/position of the next head of the family is a more pressing matter?


2. A challenge from the murder. Maybe something along the lines of "I'll kill everyone unless you come out and see me".
-But if that's the case, then she could've just stayed inside to protect the kids...or move them back to Ginzo's room first.

3. Actually she's running away from Maria, kihihihihihi
-Maybe she starting to get creepy, kihihihihi
-Can't really believe that she saw/heard nothing becuase she was singing a song, kihihihihi
-...kihihihihi, I want you to know that much. Kihihihi ah ouch.

[Elvin]

The second letter's contents speculation

Something that can make her kill herself is if the letter implicated Jessica as the murderer; she could have "believed in the witch" as a form of denial and shot herself out of dispair. Your second guess wouldn't be practical for the murderer because 1. You can't predict who will pick up the letter and 2. normally one would open the letter right when you find it; even if the murderer did want to lure someone out for the sacrifice, Natsuhi read the letter much later than the murderer may have expected and thus a confrontation would not have been planned.

[Rias]

First of all, Natsuhi ran outside to confront something, instead of trying to get answers from Maria, who is the only one that have leads to the murder at that time. We don't know for sure if she shot herself to suicide, shot herself becuase of misfire, someone shot her with another gun, or someone shot her with her shotgun. Shooting herself out of despair sounds farfetched, since we can see she was determined when she was contronting "something" at the end before she died.

Second, I doubt that knowing her daughter is the murderer wouldn't make her run away, barricaded the other kids with the "murderer" and shoot herself. If she was scared/paranoid/out of her mind, she would've shot Jessica right on the spot. If she feared for the kids/her own safety she would've confronted Jessica first. Seeing how she's a caring mother, I doubt she would've taken the note seriously EVEN if it was from Beatrice.

[Klashikari]

As for the last letter...

I can't imagine Natsuhi being all that interested by the gold and such. The gold itself doesn't even represent the name of the Ushiromiya family, it would be even more logical for her to care more about Kinzo's finger ring than the gold itself.

Considering Natsuhi's state of mind at the end, it is pretty sure that she wants to finish everything once for all with "the witch".
I believe she was acting just like Kanon, though she had a glimpse worry for the children hence the barricade with the candle stick.

But, the letter seem to be something about the line "because of your, 3 innocent people died... kihihi funny isn't it...? Now, there is 5 person, but only 4 treasures available. I have to kill someone, but of course, you might also kill me...
To your convenience, shall we settle all of this with a duel...? I'm waiting for you at my portrait, kihihi..."

It was pretty much emphasised that Natsuhi took for herself the responsibility of the banishment of the last 4 persons, leading to the death of 3 of them. Considering the opportunity and the climatic mix of feelings, It is kinda "normal" for natsuhi to rush.

[Rias]

A challenge from the murderer seems highly probable since the letter wasn't randomly found like the one they found in Ginzo's room. However, seeing how the way they entered the living room in the first place (where they were ready to confront the murderer together), I find it a bit weird that she didn't have George and Battler to tag along when she rushed out.

Thus I think there's something she's trying to hide from the younger group...

[Nadeor]

Hmm... I figured I might just put up my analyze throughout the first ep:


Well I have finished Umineko ep1: Legend of the golden witch... at last...

I have to say, this is really really really x10000 epic! Unbelievable story line, combined with dramatic irony (lol I love the part which Battler said: "This reminded me of a novel I read a while ago, it's called Higurashi no Naku Koro ni..." Lol Higurashi!).

Ok ok, I'll get to the point, here's what I think.

Even until the end, I still DON'T BELIEVE IN MAGIC!
Yes, flame me all you want, but I have a logical explanation to it.

I have summarized 8 points throughout the story, and it should come in some help. Well Sean if you guys can help me translate this and post it on the official board in Japanese that would be nice =)

Everything I said will be based on human being theory, no magic tolearted!
From this point I will call the murderer/suspect 'B' for Beatrice, just for fun and simplification.
We can say that, B can not use magic, if he can, what's the point of asking those 18 people to solve it? Why not just let himself/herself get into the hiding place alone? Why not appear in front of Kinzo and tell him: Alright I want my money back, I bet Kinzo would love to do it.
The fact is that B wants everyone to believe the existance of Golden Witch Beatrice, so we can see from this, B wants to achieve something through this superstition besides killing everyone.

Suspicious points:

1) Death of Kanon:

When the death of Kanon happened in the boiler room, everyone who are still alive has the prove of absense. Battler saw the door moving when they got there, therefore someone HAS escaped through the door. Of course, you can also make a lil gadget so the door while move itself, but by doing so it would only make everyone believe that Witch does not exist, which goes against the will of B. Then, who could do such a thing? If no 'living' people could have done this, then this could be only achieved by the 'dead'. Who though:

Kinzo, Rudolf, Kyrie, Gohda & Roza

Only these 5 are able to fake death, because Shanon and Krauss' faces were only choped in half, therefore we can still tell it's them. So they can't fake death. These 5 people can prepare a body beforehand to make others think they are dead, while commiting the murder they switched clothes, this is probably how it happened, since even Nanjo himself said he is not experienced enough to analyze the dead bodies. It would be unsure to say who's dead for sure among these 5, because their faces were gone and we could not tell. Therefore there is a chance B is hiding among these 5.


2) Death of Eva and Hideyoshi:

The death of Eva and Hideyoshi is a classic 'impossible murder'. Since from the fact we know nobody can come out from the room after the murder was comitted. However, this kind of 'impossible murder' has a huge problem with it; WHAT IF THE MURDERER DID NOT GO OUT THROUGH THE DOOR? Therefore if I am the killer, I would hide underneath the bed after finished drawing the spell circle and leaving the message by sliding it underneath the door. When everyone comes in and check they would be only stunned by the scene and their instinct will tell them that the murderer is long-gone. Just like the theory Battler came out, I will agree to this. So after everyone's gone, I can retreat through the original door or I can go out through the window, knowing everyone would now retreat to the book room, it would be easy to send out the letter before they get there and get to the boiler room just in time to kill Kanon.

3) The third letter:

The third letter was the one to blame for seperating the remaining 8;

There are 2 ways of achieving this:

A) One of the 8 people is B or a partner of B, therefore when everyone's gathering around the painting the one would have time to place the letter on the table, or in fact, relating to the previous discussion, B is already in the room when everyone got there, and is just waiting for the right time.

B) B could have a set-up on the ceiling so when everyone's gathering in front of the painting, the letter would come down itself, or something like that.

If I am B, I would get something which is for sure to reach my goal:

Drugs

By mixing some drug and put it somewhere around the house, so it would be breathed in without people noticing it. It would be easy to make hallucinations to happen, and this will get me some time to get to the book room.



4) The umbrella

We know from the fact that during the period of time which Maria receives the umbrella from the mysterious person, everyone besides Roza and the servants have the prof of absense. Kinzo is in a chess game with Nanjo, Kyrie, Rudolf, Hideyoshi, Eva, Krauss and Natsuhi were in a argument. The 'baka-sabaibas' (Idiot survivors, which by here I mean the kids) were in the hotel and they kept an eye on each other.

What's to be noticed in here is that the topic was brought up twice, once outside and once during dinner, all been brought up by Roza. So if Roza was B and wants to convince everyone the fact Beatrice exists, she has surely succeded in doing so. And she has surely succeded in scaring the cr4p out of me for 1 night.



5) The disappearance of Kinzo:

Battler's theory was right, but only half right.
Since Kinzo can not see the paper left in the door from inside, therefore he must have received somewhat a signal from B from outside. Relating to the drug theory mentioned before, achieving this would be a piece of cake.


6) Blood hand-prints on Natsuhi's door:

I favor this theory the most, we all know that B has paid a visit to Natsuhi's room during the previous night. But why is she not killed?

My theory is, when B opened the door and saw the scorpion inside, this will definitely not scare B away, but giving B an idea. B might think if he/she left Natsuhi alone for tonight but leaving some marks on the door, showing the fact that B is somewhat 'blocked' by the charm and unable to kill Natsuhi, therefore this convinced everyone else even more that Beatrice exists and the weakness is the scorpion. But the sacrifice will be one short now, where would B get one more for the 6 sacrifices? Just when B's thinking about this, Shannon, who just happens to be passing by, became the substitude victim (Poor girl).

Of course, you might say: OMG Natsuhi can do it herself, WRONG! Remember the story is semi-omni-prescent, therefore the thoughts came out from Natsuhi can not be a lie, remember she doesn't know what the charm is for before the death of Kanon.


7) The death of Natsuhi:

Killing Natsuhi wasn't that hard, I could still recall I watched a comedy in China called 'China-Made 007'. There was one scene which one character opened fire through a gun, but the bullet came out from the oposite side and shot herself. Therefore my theory would be: Bullet came out from the opposite side when Natsuhi is aiming at Beatrice, so the opening would be directly in her forehead. (LMAO try to picture this scene, Natsuhi tries to kill you but ended up 'boof' ON TEH FLOOR XD)

The question is how did the letter say in order to make Natsuhi come out to meet Beatrice in front of the painting? Remember, Krauss mentioned to Natsuhi that the gold exists and it's a fact, therefore this is a secret which Natsuhi has to keep no matter what. B knows Natsuhi knows this secret and B him/herself knows this as well, so B used this as the bait and got Natsuhi outside without a sweat.


8) Golden Butterflies:
Again, I have two theories for this:

A) Relating to the drug-hallucination theory, and let's just relate this to Hinamizawa Syndrom's L5, and assume B can manipulate L5 to happen, therefore golden butterfly can be just a hallucination. After all so far we haven't seen any character going: "OMG I just walked outside and guess what I saw a freakin' golden butterfly OMGOMGOMGOMG..." (besides the owned servant... we might see him later in an arc similar to Onisarashi-hen)

B) I have read the manga of 'detective conan' (case closed) and in a story, the culprit intended to scare everyone away by attracting moths on the window, forming a shape of a ghost. Maybe the Butterflies were colored gold and then sent out around, this explains why everyone sees the butterfly once in a while before. B just have to take out the bait and attract the butterflies in when B needs them, therefore creating the existance of Golden Butterflies.



The solution to the 8 question has ended, now it's just my guessing:

According to Kanon's death, and limiting the suspect within the 18 people:
Kinzo, Kyrie, Rudolf, Roza and Gohda would be the suspect

Now rather than 'turning the chessboard around' we can use elimination:

Kinzo is just like a child been fooled around, faking 6 toes aren't impossible, it's just not easy. Even if Ryukishi07 wrote this that way, the readers would not be happy as well XD

Gohda is an idiot, out of the question

Rudolf cannot meet the requirements, out of the question

Kyrie not for sure, but it's not noticeable for her to disappear from the argument, therefore whe somewhat is a suspect

Roza not for sure, but as the mother of the little witch (I was about to type b****) Maria, she has to know something. Maybe she's related to Beatrice? We don't know, only Ryukishi07 knows for sure.


B's intention:

We can say B wants everyone to believe in the existance of Witch, this is for sure, but why?

B DOES NOT believe in the existance of Witch, just by the fact B pretended to be is enough

B used the epitaph and pretends to revive the witch, but the fact is he did not, he's just using the ideas on the epitaph

When everyone gathered in the tea party, what B really wants, is everyone's opinion on whether to go look for the gold or not, besides Battler's of course.

This also means: B knows Gold exists for sure, but he's not able to do it alone

So we can say, B is just a little human being like everyone else who's really smart and craves for gold, but he's no witch, so Beatrice did not commit such crime!

Hope this helped u guys on the whole idea~ XD

[Klashikari]

I added spoiler tags in your post for convenience. In the future, please use
text

as for your points:

6. This is impossible because Natsuhi said there is no trace of infraction of the door. Of course, this might be explained if the culprit has a master key.

That said, anyone can see Jessica giving the amulet to natsuhi. Even if she doesn't hang it on the knob, it is a good "justification" by itself.

7. I'm not convinced by the reversed barrel, because Battler saw the smoke coming out from the muzzler. If the barrel was reversed, it would be logical to see the smoke from that hole.
It is an interesting theory, but that would mean the trick of this weapon would be ruined if holder of the weapon used without "beatrice" intervention. It would be a very awkward evidence that someone messed up with the stuff etc. Example: it would be very awkward if Natsuhi decided to shoot down Eva during their argument.

[Nadeor]

I added spoiler tags in your post for convenience. In the future, please use
text

as for your points:

6. This is impossible because Natsuhi said there is no trace of infraction of the door. Of course, this might be explained if the culprit has a master key.

That said, anyone can see Jessica giving the amulet to natsuhi. Even if she doesn't hang it on the knob, it is a good "justification" by itself.

7. I'm not convinced by the reversed barrel, because Battler saw the smoke coming out from the muzzler. If the barrel was reversed, it would be logical to see the smoke from that hole.
It is an interesting theory, but that would mean the trick of this weapon would be ruined if holder of the weapon used without "beatrice" intervention. It would be a very awkward evidence that someone messed up with the stuff etc. Example: it would be very awkward if Natsuhi decided to shoot down Eva during their argument.


sorry for the noobish act of not adding the spoiler code

well, when Jessica gave Natsuhi the charm, nobody knew where she would put it. On herself? Or just leave it somewhere? nobody knows. And besides, if B intends to go and kill Natsuhi with the old 'nights' act, he/she would probably not notice the charm and make a mistake of killing Natsuhi. Therefore B can use the excuse of opening the door but finding there is a charm on the other side, scared and back off. Master key theory might be a go.

Klashikari I see your point, but the fact is that the back side of the barrel can be something like a trap door which goes one way, after the bullet comes out of it then it would shut down itself, forcing the smoke to go back the other way through the mullet. Battler did not check for gun powder splits on the tip of the gun, therefore leaving the back of the gun ignored, and Natsuhi was fooled by her anger.

When Natsuhi intended to shot Eva with the gun, she was intervened by the rest and therefore not been able to open fire at that moment. As I mentioned before, B has one of his/her partner hidden among the 8 survivors during the 3rd letter incident, therefore B can make sure nobody goes against his/her plan.

[Elvin]

They don't make guns like that outside of movies :rolleyes: She'd atleast check if the gun was loaded or not. If it were like you said then the bullets would be loaded backwards.

[Nadeor]

you do have a point, but they were just 'theories'
I don't know for sure, let's just say B shot her first and took away her gun, leaving the one fired by B

[Rias]

First of all, Natsuhi posessing the charm is probably a good enough show for the scratch marks. It doesn't matter where she put the charm, it can be argued that since she was given the charm, she was protected by it.

Also, although the story is told in an omni-present view, there's no guarantee that everyone is sane when we enter their minds. One of the theory I've read is that Natsuhi has lost her mind due to the lack of support from her family, and the pressure she has been exposed to. She actually killed Ginzo, and just imagined the whole conversation with Ginzo about how she had the wings in her heart. There's no evidence to support this, but there's also no evidence to go against this :heh:

[Nadeor]

Well Rias what you said might be true
but the chance is that I don't think Ryukishi07 will repeat the idea of Onikakushi-hen, therefore the chance of this is small... however, Kinzo did act weird before everything happened (the 2nd day). Natsuhi did not possess the gun beforehand so it's not likely for her to kill Kinzo with an unknown weapon.

[crazysjd89]

I haven't read the second volume yet, but I wanted to post my theories for the first one.

I don't believe a witch is doing it, but I do believe there is a witch.

Well, one thing I wanted to comment on is how everyone is saying that someone cosplayed as Beatrice to give the letter to Maria at the begging. I don't think this is necessary, and rules out to many suspects.

I think that it would be much easier for the culprit to just go to her and say he/she is Beatrice. Through the game it is mentioned how Beatrice has no true form, so if someone went up to Maria saying that, Maria, who blindly believes in Beatrice and witches, would probably not hesitate to accept it.

Maria's Rose

I don't think enough attention has been payed to this, even though I think it could be a big clue.

If we assume that it's not a witch doing it, then we might also be able to assume the person toke the rose to lure Maria out by herself. If the culprit knew Maria and saw the whole candy wrapper scene, they could eventually get outside and remove the flower from the garden. And then Maria would probably remain outside looking for it.

The reason for doing this is for the thing I said above. The person isn't dressed like Beatrice or anything, so if he/she handed a letter to Maria in front of everyone's eyes, no one would believe he/she was really Beatrice. So he got Maria to be out alone. Maria would believe anyone to be Beatrice, because she wants witches to be real. The person could say something like "I'm taking this form to seem less suspicious" and Maria would probably believe it.

Storehouse

I think this one is more simple then stealing the key and putting it back. If the culprit could make a clay outline of the key, he could have another key made without anyone knowing.

I think there is some reason for the smashed up faces, but I'm not sure what it is.

Eva's and Hideyoshi's death

Well, I think that the culprit could of heard that Eva and Hideyoshi were heading to the room, and then hurried and hid in there.

Also, because of the Magical Array that appeared when Kanon and Genji left, I think that the culprit was in the room still when they were there. The culprit then left, and possible replaced the chain by stretching their hand through the door. This is very possible I think.

Another thing I found suspicious about this. Maria said the Magical Array was used to open doors, but the culprit already got in and killed them BEFORE they placed that Array on the door.

Letter in Kinzo's Study

I think that Maria simply put it there and feigned ignorance. Something like "Beatrice" saying "Because of that scorpion amulet, I can't use my magic to get this letter in the study, so I want you to make everyone think I can by placing it there."

Also, I think Battler's "invert the Chess Board" theory for this was wrong, in a way. If the person wants them to believe in Beatrice, they wouldn't simply "slip it under the door", as anyone could easily do that, with or without magic.

Maria In the corner

I think this is another good clue, if you don't think Beatrice is doing the killings. The culprit doesn't want Maria to see that the methods he uses to kill are less then magical. I think this is also the reason Maria was kept alive. Nanjo, Genji, or Kumasawa would say "It's not Beatrice! It's __________". But Maria would still believe Beatrice is disguising herself.

Natsuhi's Letter

I don't think the letter was something as direct as "Natsuhi, come and fight me at my portrait." With Natsuhi's pride and with how she was talking to "Beatrice", I think the letter said something like "I, Beatrice, am the head of Rokkenjima and the Ushiromiya Family". This is something that would anger Natsuhi into not being cautious and do what she did. She simply trapped the kids into the room to protect them.

Natsuhi "shooting herself"

This theory also assumes the culprit is not a witch.

Thinking back on what Maria said, it seems that Nanjo, Genji, and Kumasawa were scared of the person who entered the room. If you discovered it was a human who was doing the killing, why wouldn't three people try to take down one? Because this person had a weapon.

If I recall correctly, Natsuhi said she got the gun from Kinzo's "collection", so that probably means there is more then one gun in the mansion.

What I think is the culprit had one of these guns, and shot Natsuhi himself. It wouldn't even have to be the same type of gun, because I don't think the children would be able to accurately say it was from a different gun. They never checked the gun to see if it was fully loaded or if a set of bullets was missing.

Inconsistent Riddle

This is something I find suspicious. The riddle says "On the first day", "On the second day", etc. But the people aren't killed in such a timely fashion. I don't see a pattern that would make it like a day when they are killed, like being killed every hour. If it really was such a powerful witch, wouldn't she be able to keep them on the island for 10 days, or do the killings every hour for 10 hours?

Storehouse Bodies/Incinerator

I see a lot of people here saying that one of the bodies in the storehous wasn't really the body of who they think it was, and the body in the incinerator isn't really Kinzo. Here's something for you to think about:

What if one of the bodies in the storehouse with the faces fully smashed was actually Kinzo's body? If he had a person's shoes on, they wouldn't be able to tell he had six toes. So, that would mean that one person who "had their face smashed" was actually still alive, and the body in the incinerator really was Kinzo's. If this were the case, that would mean only 17 of 18 people (assuming the kids died too) REALLY died, and Kinzo's body was used as a corpse twice, once as Rudolf's, Kyrie's, Rosa's(disturbing), or Gohda's corpse and once as the his own in the incinerator.

Alternate Theory: The kids and their talking dog companion spring a trap that goes horribly wrong, but still ends up catching the bad guy, and they pull off the Beatrice mask to reveal it was actually Mr. Jenkins.

Rehehehe!

[Nabiki Asakura]

hehe XD
....Natsuhi is the killer
The End =B

*???*

[Nadeor]

To crazysjd89's point:


Well I can say that you do have a point

Remember, when Kanon's at the boiler room and got killed, everyone have a proof of absense
therefore there has to be a helper around


I'll be looking forward to Umineko ep2, but I prefer chinese version XD

[Rias]

To crazysjd89's point:


Well I can say that you do have a point

Remember, when Kanon's at the boiler room and got killed, everyone have a proof of absense
therefore there has to be a helper around




The people who doesn't have a alibi at that time are Ginzo and Saba. Of course, with the uncofirmed deaths, Kurata, Rosa, Rudolf, Kirie, Eva, Hideyoshi can also be the murderer. (Eva and Hideyoshi are also uncofirmed deaths due to the "Dr.Nanjou is also part of it" theory.)

I do like crazysjd89's theory on Ginzo's body.

[Sterling01]

Who's Saba

[Nadeor]

Eva and Hideyoshi's deaths are most likely confirmed
I still think that Kanon's incident proves there has to be someone faking the death
And also, when they are confirming the deaths, not only Nanjo
But the servants that Kanon (Eva & Hideyoshi), Gumasawa and Genji are there as well

btw, who's saba?

[Rias]

Who's Saba

Kumasawa. She's referred to as Saba because of her nature and her mackeral jokes.



As for Eva and Hideyoshi, their death were only confirmed by Dr.Nanjou. He checked the bodies, and ordered everyone to leave the room to keep the room in tact. Of course he also didn't pull out the "icepicks". Having a "icepick" in their forhead isn't a solid proof that they have died, espeically when considering what happens in ep2.


In the end there's only 3 persons we know died for sure, that being Krauss, Shannon and Kannon. First two lost half their head, and everyone saw and stayed with Kannon as he bled to death.

[Miko Miko]

Do we have a thread for the Umineko manga?

[Nadeor]

We have not yet read umineko ep2 yet

But Eva and Hideyoshi's death can be confirmed, remember
this story is told through a semi-omniprescent point of view, therefore all characters' words and thoughts have to be true and real

[Rias]

We have not yet read umineko ep2 yet

But Eva and Hideyoshi's death can be confirmed, remember
this story is told through a semi-omniprescent point of view, therefore all characters' words and thoughts have to be true and real



Just becuase it's in semi-omniscient, it doesn't mean that the characters cannot lie. The plot device "A doctor giving false infomation" isn't something new in the murder mystery world.

Look at the first 6 arcs of Higurashi. Combined together, and looking from all the different perspective of different characters, we know that Takano is supposed to be dead on the day of the festival. Did the coroner in Gifu not lie?

[Nadeor]

Well yea, I guess Nanjo can be a murderer
But remember, he has proof of absense during Kanon's murder
and therefore, we can say that at least, he did not commit all of them
there has to be some inter-connections between the died and the living one's

[Rias]

Well yea, I guess Nanjo can be a murderer
But remember, he has proof of absense during Kanon's murder
and therefore, we can say that at least, he did not commit all of them
there has to be some inter-connections between the died and the living one's



I didn't say Nanjo is the murderer...I think there are chances that he works with, or is blackmailed to, help the murder.

Like I've said before, the only people who were possible to do it, were only Ginzo and Kumasawa. Of course, there's the possiblity that some people didn't really die and they are the ones who did it.

[Zetsuboushitaa]

I think maybe i know who 19th person is. some of my idea come from Level E
And sorry i dont know how to insert spoiler tag -_-






This part of the riddle caught my attention


The river that goes through my dear hometown.
People who aim at the golden village, go down this river and search the key.
If you go down the river, soon you will be at a village
Search the shore two people at that village will refer to.
There sleeps the key to the golden village.
The people who gets the key shall begin a journey to the golden village according to what is written below.
At the first night, offer six people of the key's choice in sacrifice.



The river that goes through my dear hometown.
People who aim at the golden village, go down this river and search the key.
i think the river = Family line

If you go down the river, soon you will be at a village

i think to go down the river mean you need to investigate the younger generation of the family line

Search the shore two people at that village will refer to.
There sleeps the key to the golden village.

i think two people mean Maria and Rosa and the shore they refer to mean Rosa's husband maybe he know where the gold is


At the first night, offer six people of the key's choice in sacrifice.

Which mean the key can choose who will die so i think the key is a person and he can choose who will die at the first night
So i think The key = 19th person = Rosa's husband
And maybe someone in 18 people is helping him.

i'm really sorry for my grammar and my vocab i'm not verry good at English

edit by moderator: To add spoiler tags, simply click on this http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.global/spoiler.gif icon located at the Quick Reply or Post Reply template. Fill in the pop-up box which will state the reason for your spoiler tag and voila~!

[Nadeor]

Can you use spoiler code?

[Sterling01]

Just to let the Beta testers know we (as in Mion of Sonozaki Futagotachi) is currently inserting the text and the patch will be sent out to be tested whenever that's done.

[crazysjd89]

I was listening to system0 today, and I only just noticed what the lyrics at the beginning of it are saying.(Before I could only understand part of the second half of each line, but now I feel stupid for not noticing it.

"Believing oneself to be perfect is... often the sign of a delusional mind."
"Small words... from a small being, trying to attack what it doesn't understand!"

I wonder if -45 is a trekkie, haha.

Now I need to watch that scene from First Contact and see how much more epic it is with this song in my head.

Also, I'll be ready whenever the patch is done.

VVV Yeah, it's a quote from Star Trek: First Contact.

[Varion]

I was listening to system0 today, and I only just noticed what the lyrics at the beginning of it are saying.(Before I could only understand part of the second half of each line, but now I feel stupid for not noticing it.

"Believing oneself to be perfect is... often the sign of a delusional mind."
"Small words... from a small being, trying to attack what it doesn't understand!"

Oh is that what the second line is? I got the first one, but I didn't have a clue about the second. Fits so well... especially in the scene it plays in.

[FlareKnight]

Well after seeing a few chapters of the manga this is looking pretty interesting.

Big props and thanks to those working on a patch. Not easy to learn the language and putting that to use for others benefit is nice thing.

[Nadeor]

The chinese group on other forums are releasing EP2 in a month
Then I can participate in the Ep2 discussion thread as well ^_^
Hopefully you guys can release it ASAP so I can introduce it to my classmates

[Hypertaost]

I recently started on the chinese version of ep 2, but then I realized that I've never unlocked Bernkastel's character image. Can anyone tell me?
Edit: nevermind, found it. By the way, there's a summary of umineko at http://calamitousintents.wordpress.com/, it's not finished though

[Rias]

I recently started on the chinese version of ep 2, but then I realized that I've never unlocked Bernkastel's character image. Can anyone tell me?
Edit: nevermind, found it. By the way, there's a summary of umineko at http://calamitousintents.wordpress.com/, it's not finished though

The summary at that site is horrible...

[Meirin]

Ooh.. The Chinese patch for Ep2 is finally out? They kept their promise for a May release! I think I'll get started with it later today. :) Can't wait til more of Ep1 is out in English so that I can convince more people to give this game a chance.

[Roll]

The summary at that site is horrible...

I find it better and more explicit than the wikipedia one :heh:

[Nadeor]

I've already completed EP2~~~
Hmm, Beatrice you did a nice job, but you have to do better than that to make me give up!

[Sonozaki Futagotachi]

Hi folks,

Looks like 07th Expansion has released a free demo version of Umineko EP 1 (http://07th-expansion.net/umi/soft/umi_taiken.htm), much like with Higurashi Onikakushi.

Shall we get together a script for patching it? :)

edit: Zounds, it's 383MB! I'd forgotten how much bigger Umineko is, compared to Higurashi

Mion (Sonozaki Futago-tachi)

[Nadeor]

Mion This is Madness O_O
What about the real thing ? T.T
I believe the English-only readers here are getting kinda pissed off about us talking these things that they don't understand quite yet

[Ceath]

Where can i get the chinese version of EP 2?

[Nadeor]

Are we supposed to advertise here?
Ceath Message me and I will forward you the adress

[Eryops]

I finally got around to reading the translation of Legend of the Golden Witch. I quite liked it and thought it maintained tension quite well.

I tried second-guessing Ryukishi07 about what what really going on, but that merely resulted in me going in circles (e.g. 'X is too simple. But what if he knew we'd think it's too simple and did it because whe'd think that way? etc'). :)

Most of the points I had thought of after finishing the VN have already been raised in this thread except for one:
It's regarding the conclusion on the notebook page that's found in a wine bottle a few years after the incident:

"If you read this, at that time, I'll probably be dead.
My corpse may exist or may not exist, however.
You, who read this.
Please, disclose the truth.
That's my only wish.
Ushiromiya Maria"

a nice parallel to Onikakushi-hen. However I found this note to be truly bizarre. Maria in the story appears to fully believe in Beatrice. As far as she's concerned, she knows exactly what's going on; people are being killed by a witch. Why would she want to ask people to solve a mystery to witch she already has the answer? Therefore I'm guessing that either the note was written by someone other than Maria or Maria was only pretending to believe in a witch and was trying to solve the mystery by herself. (Or the scenes we see in which maria seems to believe in a witch are all hallucinations.)

Another question is when Maria threw the bottle in the ocean. We only see her near the sea before the murders start and the note would have had to been written after the incident finished. Did she live long enough to write a note and go throw it in the ocean? Or perhaps like Rika in Higurashi she had seen this situation unfold before and written about it before the murders started?
And now here's an off the wall theory I came up regarding the culprit:
It was the captain of the boat that brought them in. He only pretended to sail off again but in reality went and disembarked to some spot on the island not visible for the mansion. His motive is that he's actually Maria's father in disguise and he wanted to have revenge on the family that spurned him. Because of his hatred for Rose he kills her first but lets Maria live because she's his daughter. Maria cooperates with him because he's her father and she's fed up with her mother's abusive behavior. :)

[momobunny]

I finally got around to reading the translation of Legend of the Golden Witch. I quite liked it and thought it maintained tension quite well.

I tried second-guessing Ryukishi07 about what what really going on, but that merely resulted in me going in circles (e.g. 'X is too simple. But what if he knew we'd think it's too simple and did it because whe'd think that way? etc'). :)

Most of the points I had thought of after finishing the VN have already been raised in this thread except for one:
It's regarding the conclusion on the notebook page that's found in a wine bottle a few years after the incident:

"If you read this, at that time, I'll probably be dead.
My corpse may exist or may not exist, however.
You, who read this.
Please, disclose the truth.
That's my only wish.
Ushiromiya Maria"

a nice parallel to Onikakushi-hen. However I found this note to be truly bizarre. Maria in the story appears to fully believe in Beatrice. As far as she's concerned, she knows exactly what's going on; people are being killed by a witch. Why would she want to ask people to solve a mystery to witch she already has the answer? Therefore I'm guessing that either the note was written by someone other than Maria or Maria was only pretending to believe in a witch and was trying to solve the mystery by herself. (Or the scenes we see in which maria seems to believe in a witch are all hallucinations.)

Another question is when Maria threw the bottle in the ocean. We only see her near the sea before the murders start and the note would have had to been written after the incident finished. Did she live long enough to write a note and go throw it in the ocean? Or perhaps like Rika in Higurashi she had seen this situation unfold before and written about it before the murders started?
And now here's an off the wall theory I came up regarding the culprit:
It was the captain of the boat that brought them in. He only pretended to sail off again but in reality went and disembarked to some spot on the island not visible for the mansion. His motive is that he's actually Maria's father in disguise and he wanted to have revenge on the family that spurned him. Because of his hatred for Rose he kills her first but lets Maria live because she's his daughter. Maria cooperates with him because he's her father and she's fed up with her mother's abusive behavior. :)

That's really interesting. With the letter in the bottle I had the same ideas when I first read it, I can't wait to find out the truth! ^.^

[Rias]

And now here's an off the wall theory I came up regarding the culprit:
It was the captain of the boat that brought them in. He only pretended to sail off again but in reality went and disembarked to some spot on the island not visible for the mansion. His motive is that he's actually Maria's father in disguise and he wanted to have revenge on the family that spurned him. Because of his hatred for Rose he kills her first but lets Maria live because she's his daughter. Maria cooperates with him because he's her father and she's fed up with her mother's abusive behavior. :)


That sounded alright until the end where if you read ep2, there's this scene with worldenddominator that would blow your theory away.

[Shinigami_Mello]

I thought the whole letter was really odd to when I read it since Maria seemed to already believe that everything was the witches doing.

But I agree with Rias, after playing through the second episode (before the rough script got taken down xD), that scence he mentioned would probably blow it away completely. All of ep.2 is just quite the crusher for ep.1 theories. (And ep.3 for like everything I've heard)

Also, heres a small thing I noticed when I played Ep.1. When the first letter was read at dinner, after they took of Kinzo's special wax seal, it mentioned that Hideyoshi quickly grabbed. I only noticed it because I knew some of the story beforehand so that stuck out to me. And now I'm wondering, that maybe if could be possible for them to make their own letter. But then...how would they get his envelopes.

But thats just something I thought I'd through out : D

[Eryops]

That sounded alright until the end where if you read ep2, there's this scene with worldenddominator that would blow your theory away.
Don't worry; I didn't take that theory seriously either. I simply wanted to create a theory that has the high speed boat captain as a culprit and went from there.

Since it's set in 1985 maybe Ruykishi07 should have this incident be orchestrated by the KGB (e.g. Krauss' recent mysterious funds have been provided to him by the USSR in exchange for him providing intelligence on Japan that he gained through his connections. However he eventually demanded too much money and tried blackmailing them thus becoming a liability, so the KGB decided to eliminate him along with anyone that might have discovered this secret). Might as well take advantage of fact that the cold war is still taking place. :)

Also, heres a small thing I noticed when I played Ep.1. When the first letter was read at dinner, after they took of Kinzo's special wax seal, it mentioned that Hideyoshi quickly grabbed. I only noticed it because I knew some of the story beforehand so that stuck out to me. And now I'm wondering, that maybe if could be possible for them to make their own letter. But then...how would they get his envelopes.
You mean reuse the was seal on a different letter? That would be a bit tricky I think, since you'd have to melt the back of the seal to stick it on the letter and that would be likely to distort the front of the seal an make it appear to have been tampered with.

[Exilon]

Finished episode 1 a while back, and I did find the story quite interesting. Can't deny it feels very different from higurashi, but sometimes I forget to not link them..
Oh, I'm so icthcing to start discussing theories :P also, just for the sake of some extra information, I've read the other epiosdes thread (can't hurt to try to confirm your theory, right?).

I agree with many things said here, but I'd like to focus on dismembering the mysteries presented in episode 1 not touched yet...
Let's just start with the obvious.

My three top suspects are, at the moment, gohda, Rosa and Nanjo. xD Not quite sure of the motives (heck, It'd be impossible to solve the whole mystery on the first episode), but for some reason, they sparkle my interest, besides making lots of sense. for starters, Nanjo, being the medic, can easily lie about the bodys' state or time of death. rosa.. is just highly suspicious, and has the closest resemblance to what Maria would call "beatrice". as for Gohda... he's just a hateful character.

Well, what can I say, THIs is actually a lie, because at least TWO people do not have clear alibis, and ONE even lied about it. Number one suspect is Nanjo. It is not possible for him to have been playing with Kinzo all afternoon, as he said, because we see a scene where Kinzo is actually ALONE in his room (the one he throws his ring out the window.). correct me if I'm mistaken, but I really do not recall Nanjo being present at the time. And I certainly do not believe he could be there, because 1) he would've mentioned it when the letter was read during the dinner, and 2) he would've probably said something at the time. Next up is rosa. Remember, she was actually sleeping when she *remembered* Maria could be alone in the rain. what she was doing before, we really don't know, except that she knew Maria was there beforehand, and even "conviced" her to stay there (by bashing her up, and leaving her alone, besides making the other three go to the guesthouse.) I don't know if this was an accident or not, but truth be told, if Maria hadn't appeared, the three would not move away from Maria thus leaving her alone. also, and this another topic, no one needs to cosplay Beatrice. One simple voice would suffice, and even if I don't know how Nanjo could pull this off, you need to pay attention to the fact that: 1) It's rainy, and foggy, if someone appeared it would be hard to be seen, at least fully). 2) No one even needs to talk, it's quite possible that, seeing how Maria is the age she is, she would believe it was Beatrice. this is just one example of how this could happen. Nanjo/Rosa leaves the umbrella and a note, telling Maria exactly what to do, and who the person that sent the leter is. this is one of the easiest theories to follow. either way, be this true or not, one must focus on this point: MARIA BELIEVES IN BEATRICE AND WITCHES INCONDITIONALLY, because it's what makes her "special" in her own eyes.

quite frankly, this is easy to explore, and due to the fact there are so many possibilities, I'll just say these two words: Master Key.

So, this was the easiest of all for me to explain... if I was Battler, I would completely pawn Beatrice at the Tea Party. Muehehe. First of all, how did Kinzo leave his "closed" room. I'm pretty sure many missed this, hell, even the characters missed this obvious part, but, being the only one that knew of the receipt, what clears Eva from any suspicion? for starters, she could be lying, and secondly, if she knew where the receipt was, would it be hard for her to break in Kinzo's room in the timeframe she mentioned and kidnap the old man herself? But this what bugs me the most... Obviously if someone was waiting for the right time to kidnap Kinzo, they would be on surveillance, thus seeing Eva put the receipt there. ..now, one might ask how to enter the room without the key. Well, I'm sure you remember that Kinzo was found in the incinerator with the key. It's possible, that in the first day, any one of the servants (And NAnjo) had the chance to steal the key, and hand it over to the one surveilling his room. after that, it's just easy to figure out what happened in the afterwards, culprit enters room, knocks Kinzo unconscious, exits room, goes to boiling room (whatever way is fine, after all, everyone is in the parlor, except for Eva and Hideyoshi if they already left for their room, OR everyone is in the storehouse sulking at the six's deaths. Actually, it wouldn't surprise me if this was actually the case.), completely unnoticed, and starts burning Kinzo with the key. since he's uncosncious (or even sedated), he won't notice, and therefore, he's not going to wake up.

At the beginning, I thought that these two were the main culprits in this case, but after thinking a while, I just dismissed this possibility. this is not hard to explain at all, either, by simply using the thoery Battler used for Kinzo: the murderer just hided after placing a new chain. even if this sounds a bit risky, there is another possibility that makes more sense: the culprit just used a master key and used an iman, or lured Eva or Hideyoshi out and knocked them unconscious. But by the look of things, I'd say Eva and Hideyoshi's planned murder didn't exaclty go like the plan, but still succeedeed. Let's imagine Rosa killed both. she probably knew their room had a chain, so she brought a iman to open the door. Or she could lure Eva out. Sounds tricky? Not really. Remember what the other characters said about the letter? That it would be placed if the people in the room didn't answer the door? think about it this way. Rosa comes and knocsk on the door, getting Eva's attention. Upon "not receiving any answer" (she would fake not hearing Eva in case she did ask who it was, besides you must remember the TV was still on), she put the letter so that it could be seen by Eva but not in a way that you could get it with door locked. Eva would think this was Genji's doing, because even though this wasn't a normal situation, Genji still acted like a true servant, and therefore would not talk in order to not interrupt the people inside. Reasoning this way, she'd open the door, letting Rosa step in, murdering both. Eva still had her shoes on because the criminal did not have enough time to take them out. this is, because at the time she was going to, Genji and Kanon appeared. this is where it gets kinda tricky: either Rosa stayed hidden under one of the beds, or she left as soon as she could, using the 5 minutes she had to draw the circle. Or she didn't even have to- it's possible that she had a way of plastering the whole thing into the door (using for example, graffiti spray, or some other kinda of non-stinky spray, on top of a paper). also, since the door was open, it is not impossible (and I know this because I've tried it) to lock the chain from the outside if it's not in place. I might have missed some spots but I'm pretty sure I nailed some pretty good possibilities.

Easy peasy. There was someone down there, burning Kinzo's corpse. If I went with my theory, I'd say it's pretty possible Gohda was the one here. It's also possible he is communicating with his accomplices using radios, so he knew he could draw someone's attention. BOOM, Kanon is in the dark and is dead. I bet he couldn't even see who killed him. and if he could, it would kinda explain his anger and what he said, is it not right?

Yeah right. It's quite obvious that either Maria or Nanjo put it there. do not forget the possibility Nanjo can be manipulating Maria by the use of some notes he puts in her sack. since few people pay attention to her, it wouldn't be surprising she read some of those notes telling her what to do. there are also many timeframes when Maria is alone. the most obvious possibility here is that "beatrice" gave Maria that letter when she was alone watching TV in the parlor. (If I'm not mistaken, this is when everyone is on a frenzy running at the storehouse in the garden.) Maria knows (she even said it), that "Beatrice" can't enter Kinzo's room, therefore she has to find some way to make them leave. (Or she was told that they had to leave so Beatrice could carry out her plan by a note Beatrice (actually Nanjo) made magically appear (Actually wrote it on their way to the room, and put on Maria's bag without her knowing). on her bag. Quite simples if you ask me. Maria can be smart enough to perceive Beatrice won't kill them in that room, so she finds a way to make them leave.

even easier. It is revealed in the next episodes there are more winchesters than the one Natsuhi is holding. Also, it is quite obvious the "butterflies" and "Beatrice" are just illusions, or better yet, that the way Ryukishi wrote it, metaphors. "a swarm of butterflies" is obviously the culprit, because we all know Beatrice appears IN THE FORM OF BUTTERFLIES. so, wordplay here is what wins. Also, "golden witch raises her staff" = culprit readies the weapon and shoots. Simples as that, and then "culprit" swapped the guns.

Wow, huge text, though I'm not quite over yet, there are still two things I haven't seen anyone mention:

My guess is that there are various ways to interpret and expalin each of the butterflies' appearance. Wheter it is wordplay (metaphor), or just an illsuion, or even maybe reality, there must be a way to explain those. First, shannon's butterflies could just be REAL butterflies. After all, the windows were open and the forest is full of fauna. Second, Kanon's butterflies. who said that the furnace was turned off when Kanon arrived? It is possible that these golden butterflies... were just ashes or flames from the furnace. It was dark, and Kanon couldn't see very well. He could have seen things that weren't there. We also know for a fact that the culprit was still there. Hadn't finished cremating yet? Well, duh. :P third, Natsuhi's butterflies. WORDPLAY. and that's it... tell me if I've missed any butterflies :P

I'm sure I wasn't the only one to notice this... Natsuhi's headaches must have a reason, so there's something about her that we don't know yet. My guess is that she walks during her sleep, doing stuff she doesn't know of (creepy). What strains her brain so badly? Maybe she was even the one that scratched at her own door, after walking around the mansion and accidently touching blood somewhere. ...But besides that topic, it is also possible that, because she was sleeping heavily (remember the pills?), she did not hear when a bloody someone (oh, might it be Shannon?) grasped at her door for help. why she wasn't one of the six, the answer is quite simple: the six sacrifices were already dead. No need for a seventh person. And finally, I found it quite weird that in the end of the first night, there is a scene where we see everyone and where they are, or what they're doing. I don't recall seeing Natsuhi during this intermission! Is it because there were no sprites for sleeping people? :O xD

well, this turned out to be quite a long post. I hope I made some sense :P

[Exilon]

Most of the points I had thought of after finishing the VN have already been raised in this thread except for one:
It's regarding the conclusion on the notebook page that's found in a wine bottle a few years after the incident:

"If you read this, at that time, I'll probably be dead.
My corpse may exist or may not exist, however.
You, who read this.
Please, disclose the truth.
That's my only wish.
Ushiromiya Maria"

a nice parallel to Onikakushi-hen. However I found this note to be truly bizarre. Maria in the story appears to fully believe in Beatrice. As far as she's concerned, she knows exactly what's going on; people are being killed by a witch. Why would she want to ask people to solve a mystery to witch she already has the answer? Therefore I'm guessing that either the note was written by someone other than Maria or Maria was only pretending to believe in a witch and was trying to solve the mystery by herself. (Or the scenes we see in which maria seems to believe in a witch are all hallucinations.)

Another question is when Maria threw the bottle in the ocean. We only see her near the sea before the murders start and the note would have had to been written after the incident finished. Did she live long enough to write a note and go throw it in the ocean? Or perhaps like Rika in Higurashi she had seen this situation unfold before and written about it before the murders started?



Probably her belief was shattered completely when she found out it actually wasn't a witch. Remember that it is unknown what happened after midnight. I'd say Maria was the last survivor of the four, and was running away. In a pinch, she wrote the letter and sent it as a desperate measure.

Of course that, for us, the readers, you can interpret this as a message from ryukishi himself, telling us to not believe in the witch. And who better than Maria, the one that believed in the witch more than everyone else, to tell us this?

[Nadeor]

Well I had a doubt about the authencity of that letter
but coming to the thought of Onikakushi-hen's letter written by Keiichi, it kinda makes sense

[Exilon]

But in Keiichi's case, you know what he means :P ...Which reminds I still can't quite figure out what happened to the middle part of that letter which was tore out and never found. XD

[Katsu Koneko]

^^; This may be a stupid question, but...where's the music box? Is it also included with the demo version?

[Nadeor]

The music box is only available after you have finished reading the first chapter

[Katsu Koneko]

Yup I finished the first chapter & the two tea parties. :3

[Nadeor]

EP1, Ep1 exterior tea party, Ep1 hidden tea party, EP2, Ep2 Exterior tea party, EP2 hidden tea party

[Katsu Koneko]

Ah. Thanks for the information. ^^

[Eryops]

Something I found really weird is the knowledge Maria displays. She can easily read Hebrew, can cite verses from the Old Testament on the fly and can instantly recognize obscure mystical symbols with no difficulty. This goes far beyond the level of knowledge you'd expect from a nine year old even if she was really into the occult. The most plausible naturalistic explanation if that the culprit has coached her to say what she needs to upon seeing each symbol, since such a depth of knowledge seems impossible for someone of her age.But in Keiichi's case, you know what he means :P ...Which reminds I still can't quite figure out what happened to the middle part of that letter which was tore out and never found. XD
The Yamainu must have found it and cut it out since it specifically mentions them and they would have no reason to draw the attention of the police to themselves.

[Exilon]

I think it's been mentioned somewhere in another thread, but someone talked about how Maria could suffer from Savant's Syndrome. If that's Maria's case, it wouldn't be so surprising. As for me, I agree with this theory, but keep in mind of how she has grown up. All in all, it is not completely impossible- just absurdly rare. First things first, she has grown excluded from normal social groups (As hinted when Rosa slaps her), and therefore distracts herself reading those kinds of books. It's quite plausible Kinzo was even the one to pass her this obsession, seeing as he himself is an occult maniac... (or so it seems.)

[Keriaku]

About the person that said it was weird for a nine year old to have that much knowledge, the character profiles does say she has a talent for memorization. So if she's interested in this stuff, she's going to remember it.

[Eryops]

I think it's been mentioned somewhere in another thread, but someone talked about how Maria could suffer from Savant's Syndrome. If that's Maria's case, it wouldn't be so surprising. As for me, I agree with this theory, but keep in mind of how she has grown up. All in all, it is not completely impossible- just absurdly rare. First things first, she has grown excluded from normal social groups (As hinted when Rosa slaps her), and therefore distracts herself reading those kinds of books. It's quite plausible Kinzo was even the one to pass her this obsession, seeing as he himself is an occult maniac... (or so it seems.)
When in serious mode she seems quite sharp, so saying hat she has Savant Syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_Syndrome) which would involve her suffering from mental retardation doesn't seem that likely. And how would Kinzo pass that obsession to her when he practically never sees his family even when they're there and Maria only visits his house once a year to begin with?
About the person that said it was weird for a nine year old to have that much knowledge, the character profiles does say she has a talent for memorization. So if she's interested in this stuff, she's going to remember it.
We aren't talking about her memorizing just a few occult symbols. She appears to be fluent in Hebrew, which is a pretty obscure language. Learning a language isn't that simple; it should have taken her years of effort to do so. Add on top of that her detailed knowledge of the Torah and all those occult symbols and the implausibility of a nine year-old learning all these things increases.

[Exilon]

When in serious mode she seems quite sharp, so saying hat she has Savant Syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_Syndrome) which would involve her suffering from mental retardation doesn't seem that likely. And how would Kinzo pass that obsession to her when he practically never sees his family even when they're there and Maria only visits his house once a year to begin with?

If we take her actions in the episode as her normal behavior, then she does have a mental retardation, if not much, at least in the social level. A nine year old DOES NOT act like Maria normally acts (going uu-uu-, and not knowing when people are talking seriously, for example). A nine year old should already have a bit of common sense, and Maria doesn't. I think that, even at one point, Battler says Maria hasn't changed at all in six years. Of course this is quite exaggerated, but still suffices.
We don't really know if Kinzo has always been like that (not visiting his family). According to EP1,(correct me if I'm mistaken) he only started spending all his day in his room around 2 years before the game's timeframe (the time when he revealed the epitaph). Even so, he could have given Maria some books which sparkle her interest.


We aren't talking about her memorizing just a few occult symbols. She appears to be fluent in Hebrew, which is a pretty obscure language. Learning a language isn't that simple; it should have taken her years of effort to do so. Add on top of that her detailed knowledge of the Torah and all those occult symbols and the implausibility of a nine year-old learning all these things increases.

Never tried learning Hebrew, but I started learning English with a dictionary when I was SIX. By 9 I could already speak a little bit. So, it is not completely impossible. Also, regarding symbols, some people do HAVE that kind of memorization, and it is not rare to find it in little kids.

[Eryops]

If we take her actions in the episode as her normal behavior, then she does have a mental retardation, if not much, at least in the social level. A nine year old DOES NOT act like Maria normally acts (going uu-uu-, and not knowing when people are talking seriously, for example). A nine year old should already have a bit of common sense, and Maria doesn't. I think that, even at one point, Battler says Maria hasn't changed at all in six years. Of course this is quite exaggerated, but still suffices.
I agree that the way she acts most of the time is abnormal for a nine year-old. However she doesn't seem to have a problem talking quite intelligently when she wants to ans she shows quite good reasoning abilities rather than just regurgitating information. If she were suffering from some kind of mental retardation she shouldn't be able to do that. Therefore her normal behavior may just be a way for her to attract attention rather than reflective of her true intelligence.

[Exilon]

I agree that the way she acts most of the time is abnormal for a nine year-old. However she doesn't seem to have a problem talking quite intelligently when she wants to ans she shows quite good reasoning abilities rather than just regurgitating information. If she were suffering from some kind of mental retardation she shouldn't be able to do that. Therefore her normal behavior may just be a way for her to attract attention rather than reflective of her true intelligence.

Quite possible indeed. ...Well, this might be a long shot, but no one has suggested this, could MAria suffer from Asperger's Syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome)? sorry if I'm trying to make Maria actually sick, but this one actually makes more sense than Savant. ... It explains her behaviour, and her "sharpness".

Also, she could draw way more attention near the adults if she expressed her knowledge immediatly. so why act "dumb"?

[k//eternal]

Maybe too convenient, but there's no reason it can't be a case of split personalities (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder). If this is so, she doesn't actually retain her knowledge of what happens when she's in spooky mode (there's no real indication that she does, as far as I recall, but many people are keeping track better than I am for sure).

That would mean she has a few blanks in her memory, which she might attribute to being possessed by a witch (especially since the other Maria scribbles occult symbols into her notebook).

Things this explains if true:

1. The huge difference between "normal" and "spooky" Maria.

2. Her "uu" speech, as this is associated with personality disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder).

3. The fact that she can actually be "normal" at all after seeing the things she's seen throughout the game--come on, that would give most kids nightmares. But not if she doesn't remember them.

4. The notebook entry at the end. We know "spooky" Maria is a devoted follower of Beatrice, but "normal" Maria, while she might believe in the supernatural, isn't necessarily so. She might actually want to expose the witch, as well as find out the truth about her other side.

Thoughts?

[ClockWorkAngel]

Well the things is that the whole image of the "Witch" Maria has is attributed to find a person to symbolize, it's not that she doesn't believe in the witch, she sincerely does, but can she regard a person who has killed everyone including herself as a person to be idolized? Regardless of her views she is still a child that loves her relatives and of course will feel remorse for their deaths. She wants this to be solved as for closure.

Or it could be our beloved Witch-sama taunting us.

[Rias]

Now I don't know alot about childhood psychology, but I still think it's closer to Savant than Asperger. Mainly becuase she also exibits an expertise in memory and the fields that interests her. However, it might be that she does have split personality...mainly due to Rosa's hysterical behavior towards her.
This is more appearant in ep2. However, ep2's ending also might be foreshadowing that she doesn't have a split personality



The note is hard to say. We don't know for sure if it's really written by Maria to begin with. Even if it is, why would she choose such an hard-to-discover method (note in a bottle)? Finally, the timing of the bottle being released is also unknown. It could've been floating in the sea before everyone got to the island on the 4th.

[Exilon]

Meh. I can't say I didn't think of that possibility, but yeah, it sounds too convenient. But it seems plausible even more because when "Dark" Maria appears she ALWAYS refers to her as Maria (not "I"), like she isn't herself, but someone else.
But, even if it was the case, the question about her knowledge is still up: how would she learn so much?!



Now I don't know alot about childhood psychology, but I still think it's closer to Savant than Asperger. Mainly becuase she also exibits an expertise in memory and the fields that interests her. However, it might be that she does have split personality...mainly due to Rosa's hysterical behavior towards her.

Asperger's usually demonstrate great intelligence, and normally have a very good memory. also, they can speak fluently of the stuff they know about. In Maria's case, developing an interest for the occult isn't abnormal if she really has Asperger, and you cans ee that many of the things she says when she's serious are like passages of a book. This is because Asperger's have a sponge-like memory, absorbing everything they (in Maria's case) read, and having the ability to blurp it all out with almost no flaws at all.

[tobiast88]

Asperger's is a really controversial diagnosis, with a lot of people doubting it exists.

[nagare]

My memory of EP 01 is pretty vague, but I'm not too convince that Maria shows exceptional memory despite what her character profile says. Maria seems to be regurgitating information that was already in her notebook. I don't think she could read the Hebrew, she is just recognizing words or phases. While I'm not too familiar with autistic-type traits, just the fact that Maria has odd knowledge isn't too strange. She does not have exceptional understanding of the topic, nor does she go on for eons about the symbol explaining every bits and parts of it, the history behind it, etc. She just stated simple facts. It's not like Ryukishi isn't adept to writing forever on small issues and topics :rolleyes:

If I had to place a mental disorder on Maria, I would say she shows many similarities with borderline disorder or another personality disassociation disorder. Maria pretty much thinks in black or white. Maria has anxiety problems which lead to uncontrollable temper tantrums and crying. Her anxiety stems from her fear of abandonment of Beatrice or from Rosa. She also shows poor judgment in things that she knows are self harming (eg she knows if she cries U- U- U-, she'll be hit). She also lacks understanding of emotions of her peers and surrounding. Rosa's constant abuse and the rest of the family looking the other way showing negligence on the matter is a pretty common source for that disorder. I'm not an expert at all at psychology, but I do personally know someone with Borderline and Maria reminded me of that person during her childhood. For that person I know, reading books was an escape from reality so Maria having odd knowledge didn't strike me as being too strange. Disassociation is also pretty common from what I know of Borderline. Maria's witch persona reminds me of that.

I don't think Maria displays the traits of DID (aka multiple personalities). IMO there isn't a drastic enough of a switch of personalities or enough drastic unexplainable irregular fragmentation of memory. This is just an uneducated opinion though.

[k//eternal]

Honestly, given that she's 9 I'm not sure she's all that weird, and if she actually does have a mental disorder it's probably from the trauma of Rosa beating the crap out of her.

I remember even in middle school people had silly catchphrases of that variety anyway.

[Asashio123]

Honestly, given that she's 9 I'm not sure she's all that weird, and if she actually does have a mental disorder it's probably from the trauma of Rosa beating the crap out of her.

I remember even in middle school people had silly catchphrases of that variety anyway.

When I was nine, I don't recall anyone having weird catchphrases, especially when repeating the catchphrase in question could cause harm to the self.

Rephrased; If saying "Uu-uu" caused your mother to hit you, you would associate saying "Uu-uu" with physical (and sometimes emotional) pain, and thus, stop saying "Uu-uu". (This was already stated by Peroyasha, wasn't it?)


Actually, I've noticed that most of the (blood) members of the entire Ushiromiya family have various problems with social situations and relationships. Kinzo locks himself in him room, and practices black magic all day. Krauss doesn't seem to care about his wife, daughter, or father. Eva just simply is crazy (seriously, that's the impression I got when I read her long monologue directed towards Natsuhi.) Rudolf is involved in some sort of crime, and Rosa has obvious problems with her temper. It really begs the question; how did the Ushiromiya siblings fare at school?

Otherwise, I just wonder... could there be a chance that Kinzo (or more likely, some of his older relatives) practiced inbreeding? Considering the Ushiromiya Family's status, and the fact that marrying a cousin is not considered incestuous in Japan, this seems like a somewhat plausible theory. Obviously, the inbreeding could not have been that severe, or else the Ushiromiyas would be way more messed up than they currently are, but heck, the English Royal Family has practiced inbreeding for quite the long time, and they aren't experiencing that many problems... are they?

[Exilon]

Actually, I've noticed that most of the (blood) members of the entire Ushiromiya family have various problems with social situations and relationships. Kinzo locks himself in him room, and practices black magic all day. Krauss doesn't seem to care about his wife, daughter, or father. Eva just simply is crazy (seriously, that's the impression I got when I read her long monologue directed towards Natsuhi.) Rudolf is involved in some sort of crime, and Rosa has obvious problems with her temper. It really begs the question; how did the Ushiromiya siblings fare at school?

Otherwise, I just wonder... could there be a chance that Kinzo (or more likely, some of his older relatives) practiced inbreeding? Considering the Ushiromiya Family's status, and the fact that marrying a cousin is not considered incestuous in Japan, this seems like a somewhat plausible theory. Obviously, the inbreeding could not have been that severe, or else the Ushiromiyas would be way more messed up than they currently are, but heck, the English Royal Family has practiced inbreeding for quite the long time, and they aren't experiencing that many problems... are they?

...I don't know if inbreeding causes -only- psycological condtions :S which also makes me wonder if it isn't just perfectly normal personality issues?
For example, rudolf being involved in some crime can happen to many people who aren't "ill" or "screwed" up, so it doesn't prove anything. Of course, one can say he just wasn't affected, or was a little lucky. thing is, all of the siblings have their little issues - and I don't really think that's caused by inbreeding, even if the Ushiromyia's did something like that.

[Asashio123]

...I don't know if inbreeding causes -only- psycological condtions :S which also makes me wonder if it isn't just perfectly normal personality issues?
For example, rudolf being involved in some crime can happen to many people who aren't "ill" or "screwed" up, so it doesn't prove anything. Of course, one can say he just wasn't affected, or was a little lucky. thing is, all of the siblings have their little issues - and I don't really think that's caused by inbreeding, even if the Ushiromyia's did something like that.

That's true. I guess there's always the chance that the Ushiromiya's upbringings made them that way. After all, terrible, traumatizing childhood = messed up life. And besides, if Kinzo's always yatterring away about how people with Ushiromiya blood are the best people in the world, it wouldn't really cause the children's self esteem to decrease, do you think?

There is the chance that the children just happened to each have some individual problems coincidentally, but considering these problems occur with all four siblings, it's probably more likely that there is a substantial reason for this. (At the bare minimum, you could just say that, 'the Gold/Kinzo's reputation screwed them up'.)

And about Rudolf, it's been recorded that many criminals do possess poor social skills. Let's leave it at that.

[nagare]

And about Rudolf, it's been recorded that many criminals do possess poor social skills. Let's leave it at that.


Rudolf isn't convicted of a crime yet. His corporation is involved in a large lawsuit which is most likely a white collar crime of some sorts more than a personal felony he committed.

Also there are people who do have great social skills who committed horrible crimes. While having poor social skills may indicate psychological problems, you can still have superb social skills to the point you're extremely charismatic and still be mentally insane. Example is Ted Bundy.

As for the parents' social skill, Hideyoshi and Rudolf seem to have loyalty from their employees in their respective companies. Eva was the class president and seemingly was a model student during her high school years (according to EP 03) although she does have childhood trauma that is still gutting her inside. That's why she's edgy at these family gathering, but Battler and Hideyoshi do say she isn't like that otherwise.

Also I don't think Krauss treats Natsuhi or Jessica that horribly. I'm not saying he's the BEST husband, but he's not so absurdly terrible either. Krauss never hits them and never yells at them. When he tell Natsuhi to shut up, it's in the presence of Eva who he knows whatever Natsuhi will says will carry no weight in her presence. Also he does say he feels bad for not being a good brother to his siblings especially Eva in EP 03. However, it does seem that both Natsuhi and Krauss have separate bedrooms if I'm correct in my speculation.

Kyrie seems pretty level headed until you read her thoughts in EP 03.

Rosa is just plainly a mess all around. Several things that left scarring childhood traumas (especially that truth revealed in EP 03); a missing husband; a child who she has no idea how to control, she has no idea how to control her own frustrations and uses her child as an outlet of her swelling emotions; she has no voice in the family; owns a business her siblings laugh off as a joke; on top of that she has big financial troubles. But she does love Maria.

I do agree that the parents are messed up because of Kinzo. Even before he locks himself up, he wanted to mold his children in images that did not fit them, and his wife constantly accusing him of cheating with his mysterious mistress. Growing up in a family like that will leave scars one way or other. Although it doesn't seemed that Kinzo physically abused any of them. But Kinzo "little" secret is just creepy imo and if true, is a pretty clear sign he was insane prior to him moving on the island.

Inbreeding seems unlikely. Kinzo's parents chose his fiancé. I did think of the possibly with Maria, but I still think it's unlikely even there.

[Exilon]

I guess we can conclude that all those problems are just "coincidental" and aren't derived from one single event or problem, or in other words (by comparing it to Higurashi), everyone's past greatly influences their personality. (this is also one of the things I appreciate in Ryukishi, the ability to make such great character personalities, and make them evolve with their various experiences.) I'm pretty sure everyone remembers Higurashi, where we only understood how many characters acted the way they did after we've seen their pasts. I'm pretty sure this will be the case with Umineko.

[Kets]

Kyrie seems pretty level headed until you read her thoughts in EP 03.



Could you explain this part a little further?

[Sterling01]

Could you explain this part a little further?
Let's just say she has some unresolved issues with Battler's mom

[Larrave]

Hi,
I watched Episode 1 too now and want to first thank the Translation-Team WH for their good Job and who made it possible for those not able to speak Japanese to watch this beautiful game=).Thanks again and keep up the good work=)

Now to ask a "crazy" question before i share my thoughts:
If we assume that some faked their deaths,is there a possibilty that someone fakes another person to be?
What i mean e.g. that the Kinzo Natsuhi saw the second day wasnt the real Kinzo.Most time of the visit, she saw him just from behind and even when he turned once his face i cant say for sure Natsuhi saw his face(since she was turning back) and it was quite dark(wasnt it?) due to the typhoon.Of course this is vague but i think on both sides.I think we lack here on information (or maybe i just cant remember the details)-what do you think?

*edit*PS:Pardon me if this was mentioned before;)